(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live 2020, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Cisco Live 2020 here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman. My co-host for this segment is Dave Volante. John Furrier is also in the house. We're doing a little more than three days wall-to-wall coverage. One of the big themes we're talking about this week is in this complicated world, networking, containerization, applications going through transformation. Future work simplification is something that is very important and helping us to really tease through and understand some of the integration, some of the announcements where Cisco is helping to simplify the environment, happy to welcome back to the program one of our Cube alumni, Kaustubh Das who is a Vice President of Product Management at Cisco. KD, thanks so much for joining us. >> Oh, I'm delighted to be here, it's great to be here. >> All right. So but up on the main stage, they walk through a number of the announcement. Listen Tony, I was talking about some of the pieces and two of the announcements from the main stage are under your purview. So why don't we start there, walk us through the news. >> Yeah, so there's two two major announcements. The first one's called Cisco Intersight Workload Optimizer. And what it is, it's a way to have visibility into your data center, all the way from the applications and in fact, the user journeys within those applications, all the way down through the virtualization there, through the app servers, through the container platforms down into the servers, the networks, storage lands. So you have a map of the data center. You have a common data set that the application owner and the infrastructure owner can both look at and you finally have a common vocabulary so that it helps them to troubleshoot faster so on a fast reactor way, they talking the same language not pointing fingers at each other or do things proactively to prevent problems from happening when you see a server running hot, a virtual machine running hot, an application server running hot. You can diagnose it and have that conversation before it happens. >> My understanding is that Intersight and there's also some integrations with AppDynamics there, AppD which of course we know we talk to that team at the Amazon Cloud shows a lot. So that common vocabulary spans between my hybrid and multi cloud environments. Am I getting that right? >> Correct and there's two pieces even within that. So certainly that's integrations with AppD so from AppD we get information about the application performance. We get information about the business metrics associated with the application performance. We get information about the journeys that user take within the application and then we take that data then we stitch it together with infrastructure data to map how many applications are dependent on which application servers, how many VMs are those dependent on, what does those VMs run on? What hosts are they dependent on, what networks do they Traverse, what lands do they run on? And each one of these is an API call into that element in the infrastructure stack. Each API call gives us a little bit of data and then we piece together this data to create this map of the of the entire data center. There's a multi cloud aspect to it obviously and so we also make API calls into AWS and Azure and clouds out there and we get data about utilization of the various instance types. We get data about performance from the cloud as well. >> So two announcements. Insight Workload Optimizer and HyperFlex AppDynamics, is that right or they are separate? >> HyperFlex application platform. >> Okay. >> So if we look at the, let me just put these two in context. Every enterprise is doing two things. It's trying to run application that it already hosts and then it's writing some bespoke new applications. So the first announcement, the Cisco Intersight Workload Optimizer and the integration of the AppD, that helps us be more performant for applications we're running, to have troubleshoot faster, to have reduced cost in a multiply cloud environment. The second announcement Dave, the HyperFlex application platform, it's really targeted towards developers who are writing new applications on a container platform. And for those developers, IT needs to give them a simple appliance like easy to use container as a service platform. So what HX AP HyperFlex application platform is is a container as a service platform driven from the cloud so that the developer gets the same experience that they get when they go to an AWS and and request a pod. But they get it on-prem and it's fully 100% upstream Kubernetes compliant. It's curated by us so it's very simple appliance like feel for development environments on container. >> Okay. So Insight Workload Optimizer, it really attacks the problem of sort of the mystery of what goes on inside VMs and the application team, the infrastructure team, they're not talking to each other. You're bringing a common, like you said parlance together. >> Kaustubh: Correct. >> Really so they can solve problems and that that trickles down to cost optimization as well as performance. >> It does, aha. >> And I understand hyper HyperFlex app platform it's really bringing that cloud experience to on-prem for hybrid environments. >> For our new development. So if you're developing on containers, you're probably using Kubernetes but you're probably using this entire kind of ecosystem of open source tools. >> Yeah. >> And we make that simple. >> Okay. >> We make it simple for developers to use that and variety to provide that to developers. >> Okay. since underneath, there's HyperFlex. is there still virtualization involved in there and how does this tie in with the rest of the Kubernete solutions that we were talking about with your cloud partner? >> Great, great. Great question. So yes, there is HyperFlex underneath this. So to develop, you need a platform. The best platform we think is the elastic platform that is hyper-convergence. And with type of flex, we took storage networking and compute, packaged it together, made it super simple. We're doing the same thing with Kubernetes. So it's the same concept that how do you take complex things, package it together and make it almost appliance like. We said we're doing the same thing with Kubernetes. Now Stu, the point about virtualization is a good one. A lot of container deployments today are run in virtual machines. And they run in virtual machines for good reason, for isolation, for multi-tenancy, for all these kinds of ignition. However, the promise of containers was to sort of get rid of the tax that you pay when you deploy a virtualization environment. And what we're giving out right now is no tax, no virtualization tax virtualization environment. So we have a layer over transition in there. It's designed for this use case so it does give the isolation, it does give the multi-tenancy benefits but you don't need to need to pay additionally for it if you're deploying on containers-- >> Job wise it is some KB and base type solution >> Kaustubh: Correct. >> Underneath, it makes a lot of sense if you look at the large virtualization player out there. It's been talking about how do I enable the infrastructure that's all virtualized and everything and bring them along to that journey >> Correct. >> For that bridge if you will to the environment? Sure containerization sometimes I want to be able to spin it up super fast. It leaves, it dies, but if I'm putting something in my data center, probably the characteristics I'm looking at are a little bit different. >> Correct, correct. The other thing it does and you touched on it a little bit was we have a homogeneous environment with the major clouds out there. So one of the things developers want to do is they want to develop in one place and they want to deploy in another place so develop on Amazon and deploy on-prem or Azure. We've got an environment with very native integrations so that it's natively integrated into EKS and AKS. And we facilitate that develop anywhere, deploy anywhere motion for developers who are trying to build on this. >> So okay. What does the customer have to do to consume these solutions? >> So our customer right now for this one is IT operations. It maybe helps to bit back a little bit on why we did this. I had a lot of customers come to me and they said listen, I'm IT, I'm in the business of taking shrink-wrap software, taking enterprise-grade resilient infrastructure, putting that together. I'm not in the business of getting open source drops, every week, every day, every month, putting them together by making sure all the versions line up and doing that again and again and again. So the putting together an Ikea piece part of open source software has not been traditionally the IT operator's business. So our customer is that IT operator. What they need to do is they buy a, if they may have a HyperFlex system already, or they buy a HyperFlex effect system. They add on a license for the HyperFlex application platform. They have an Intersight license. This is delivered from the cloud so Intersight manages that deployment, manages the lifecycle, manages the upgrades and so forth. If they have a state that spreads across multiple sites, Intersight is cloud-based so it can actually reach all those sites and so they're in business. >> Okay, so very low prerequisite. You just got to have the product and you can add on to it. >> Yeah, I have the HyperFlex system, add on to the license, you're done. >> So I'm curious. How unique do you see this in the marketplace? I think the keynotes this morning is that there's no other company that can actually do this. I wonder if you can sort of add some color to that and just help our viewers understand the uniqueness of Cisco's offer. >> Sure. So I think it's unique on a number of different dimensions. The first dimension is HyperFlex itself. We've had an appliance mentality to this for a long time and we really co-designed the software and the hardware to build the most performance hyper-converged system out there. We took the same approach when we went down the path of Kubernetes and building this container platform. And so it's called design software and infrastructure together. The second thing is we said we're going to be 100% upstream Kubernetes compliant right, so if you look at the major offerings out there in this space, they're often several months actually behind where the open source is, where the upstream of the sources and developers don't want that. They want the latest and greatest, they want they want to be current, right. So we are far ahead of most of the other offerings out there in terms of how close they are to their upstream commodities. The final piece is Intersight. Intersight gives us immense ability to have scale where especially if you're developing on containers and micro services, you're talking tens of thousands, many tens of thousands of N nodes, maybe more. And being in the cloud, we have the scale and we have reached so a lot of our customers have distributed assets and branches and you know, hotel chains with hotels and so forth. Intersight allows us the ability to actually deploy across a distributed asset class with with the centralized kind of provisioning. >> You see a huge uptake right now and containers generally Kubernetes, specifically. It's sort of across the board but I wonder if you could comment on how much of that demand and activity is coming from sort of the traditional IT roles versus with other hoody developers? >> Yeah, that's that's a great question. So yes, there is a on a hype cycle it's at the top of the hype cycle. Everybody's in actual adoption. I think it's pretty good as well right. So that is every company I talk to is doing something in containers, every company. But usually, it starts at the developers. It starts with like you described with the folks in the hoodies and that's great. I mean they're experimenting, they're getting this thing. What hasn't happened is it hasn't gotten mainstream. And things can mainstream is when IT picks it up. It certifies hey this is resilient, this is enterprise-grade, I can stand behind it, I can manage the lifecycle of it. That's what we're enabling here. I'm giving IT a path to mainstream containers, to mainstream Kubernetes so that the adoption kind of takes it from that pipe cycle to mainstream adoption. >> Do you see K.D. new sort of data protection approaches or thinking as containers come into play? I mean they're ephemeral, you know microservices sometimes aren't so micro. Like you say, they're running often times inside a VM. So how are people thinking about protecting containers? >> Yeah, yeah, that's a big topic in itself. I mean one of the things that we found is even though they were supposed to be ephemeral, they require persistent storage so we've implemented within hyperflex a CSI plugin that provides that persistent storage layer to containers. Then once you do that, all of the data protection mechanism of HyperFlex come into play. So within the cluster, the resiliency, the triple replication, the backups, the partnerships we have with their other data protection pairs, all of those mechanisms become available instantly and those are enterprise-grade. Those are ones that IT knows and can stand behind. Those become available to containers right away >> Great. >> But it's great, great question. >> Awesome. >> Just want to go back to when you were talking about Intersight and the reach and the scale of the solution reminds me that Cisco has a strong legacy in global environment. What I'm curious about, we've talked a little bit about Edge computing in the past. >> Kaustubh: Yes. >> Where are you seeing Edge today? Where is that going? What should we be looking at in that space when it comes to Edge? >> Yeah, no, it's a big part of our customer demand. In fact, we haven't seen I think all flash was the other technology that took place so fast but Edge has been really phenomenal in its growth rate. Over the last year, we've seen I think probably up to 15% to 20% of my engagements are in this space on at least the hyper convert side. So we see that as a big growth area. More and more deployments are happening. They're being centrally managed, deployed at the edges and so the only solution that scales to something like that is something that's based on the cloud. But it's not just enough to be based in the cloud. You've got to maintain that entire lifecycle right? You've got to make sure you can do installs, upgrades, you know OS installs, health monitoring and so as we built that Intersight platform, we've added all those capabilities to it over time So we started with hey this is a SAS-based management platform and then we added telemetry and then we said if we can actually match signatures, now machines can manage machines. So a good amount of my support calls are now machines calling each other and then fixing themselves. So that's just path-breaking from an informant Edge environment. You don't have an IT person, add an Edge location. You want to drop, ship an appliance there, and you want to be able to see it remotely. So I think it's a completely new operating model. >> I know we got to go but I want to run your scenario by K.D.'s. Do share with me from one of my breaking analysis. Look Dave, you mentioned Flash, that's what triggered me. (laughing) So think of containers and Kubernetes, think of like Flash. Remember Flash used to be the separate thing which we used to think it was a separate market and now it's just everywhere, it's embedded in everything. >> Kaustubh: Yes. >> So the same thing is going to happen with Kubernetes. It's going to be embedded in solutions. This is exactly what it is. By 2023, we're probably not going to be talking about it as a separate thing, maybe that's sooner. It's really just going to be ubiquitous, yeah. >> No, I totally agree. I think the underpinnings that you need for that future, you need a common infrastructure platform and a common management platform. So you don't want to have a new Silo creator and this has been our philosophy even for hyperconvergence. We said hey, there's going to be converging infrastructure that will be hyper converted. But they need to be the same management system, they need to be the same fabric. And so if it's Silo is not going to work. Same thing for containers you know. It's got to be the same platform in this case, it's HyperFlex. Hyperflex runs virtualization, it runs containers with HXAP. You get all of those benefits that I've talked about. It's all management insights, it's a common management platform across both of those. At some point, these are all tools in somebody's tool kit and you pick the right one for the job. >> Kaustubh, it is wonderful to hear the company that has been dominant in one of the silos for so long of course helping to bring the silos together work across the domains. Congratulations on that good news, always great to have you. >> Yeah, always great to be here, thank you. >> Dave: Thank you. >> For Dave Folante, I'm Stu Miniman back from lunch where we hear more from Cisco live in Barcelona 2020. Thank you for watching theCUBE.

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone, we're here live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent 2018. Our sixth year covering, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, it's been a wild ride, a lot going on, changing formations over the years, cloud is kickin' butt. >> Innovation, growth. >> Partnership with VMware's paying dividends. The ecosystem's evolving, startups are having opportunities. C-Chains is here. Tom Gillis, Senior Vice President and General Manager Networking and Security Business Unit at VMware is our next guest. Great to have you Tom, thanks for comin' on. >> Thanks gentlemen for havin' me. Yeah, it's good to be here. >> I'm glad you're on, because one of the things I'm always excited about is networking. If Stu Miniman were here, he'd be all over this conversation as well. It's hard, it's been part of the holy trinity of infrastructure, network, compute, storage, is never going away, but it's changing. There's new abstraction layers, there's new opportunities, you're now living and breathing and working on with VMWare, and they just, ways to make networking better. How's it going, what's the update, what's going on in networking, this Outpost deal is really interesting. You bring in worlds together, in a consistency-- >> You hit the nail on the head, right. We're bringing the worlds together. And I think, one of the things we're seeing, is that, in the enterprise, enterprise IT is looking at an increasingly heterogeneous data center environment. In in the next 12 months, you're going to have data center, where one rack is running EC2, and your data center, one rack is running vSphere, in your data center, another workload is running on Amazon, another one is running out of the Edge, so tying this all together creates some challenges, and this is a problem I think VMWare is uniquely suited to solve, networking is the fabric that connects all these disparate islands, and lets them talk to each other, lets them talk to each other in an orderly way, right? So, networking is about connectivity. It's also about policy enforcement, those are the two things we focus on with the intersects team at VMWare. >> And I'll say, as the landscape changes around how cloud impacts it, no perimeter, but networking still has to move packets from A to B, storage goes from now to then, so things are moving around. So networking is constant, straightforward and consistent, you got to move packets around. >> Yes, this is an important thing that I think people get confused on, is, when they understand, they look at the numbers that we're posting in networking, it's all software networking, right? We don't move packets from A to B. We do the policy administration. So, something has to move the packets from A to B. Cisco's switches, Arista's switches, there's a lot of really good networking hardware out there that's not going to go away any time soon. But I always say, use the right tool for the right job, so, a product like Cisco ACI is a fabric manager for a switch. And NSX is a policy layer, right. It's a software networking layer, and something we learned from the public cloud is that, you can automate network deployment using this software networking approach. How many networking people does it take to deploy a workload on AWS? >> Zero. >> Zero! You push a button and it goes. So we're giving you that same capability on-prem, within a stack, so it's automation that allows you to automatically spin up and deploy a network, and a policy to go with that network that makes sense. >> How does that impact the largest networking vendor on the planet, Cisco? How does that scenario, and how do you guys work together? Is it conflicting, is it together? >> As you pointed out, the electrons have to move from A to B and Cisco is really, really good at doing that, actually moving electrons, doing it cost effectively, efficiently, at scale, hard problem to do. So we work very closely with Cisco to make sure that, NSX and, you know, Cisco's products, are interoperable, that they work together, they solve different problems. The problem that we solve with NSX is the policy piece of it, web server can talk to app server, can talk to database. That's a very simple policy, but when you try to express that in IP addresses, that could be 5,000 firewall rules, and in NSX that's one rule, it's English language. So it's that simplicity of software networking, allows us to enforce policy, in a increasingly heterogeneous environment. >> Okay, so let's talk about Outpost a little bit. You're got two versions, if you will. You've got VMWare Cloud on AWS Outpost, and then your piece, which is the cloud foundation for EC2 on Outpost, so that's low-latency, it's consistent networking, talk about that piece of it, drill down, and some of the challenges that you had to solve. >> So, as you pointed out, we think Outpost is an industry-defining announcement, because it's really blurring the line between private and public cloud. And VMWare and Amazon have partnered very deeply to continue to make this just feel like one thing. And the piece of the puzzle that we bring to the table is infrastructure, so policy management, that connectivity, the web server talks to app server, who gets to talk to who, security policies, data management and protection policies, these are things that customers expect from us. It's very easy for us to deliver that in a VMWare, vSphere environment. I think you talked to my colleague Mark Lohmeyer, about VMC that's going to run on Outpost, that's a VMWare environment running on Amazon hardware. We also are introducing services that are going to provide VMWare capability in a native EC2 environment running on Outpost, that's what we call VMWare Cloud Foundation, or VCF for short. >> That's a particular instance of Outpost, there's also the Amazon version, how do you guys doing under the covers? Explain how it works from a VMWare standpoint on the premised piece? Talk about under the covers. >> As you pointed out, the trick is to get all these disparate hybrid, you know, clouds, these different kind of islands the capacity to talk to each other. And so we've worked very closely with Amazon team to take NSX networking, embed it into Outpost so it can talk seamlessly to enterprise networks of all shapes and sizes. That's a deep, important part of the relationship. And in addition to that, we're putting the VCF capability into EC2 to extend consistent policy enforcement, either in a vSphere environment, private thing that you're managing, the hybrid thing that maybe VMWare is managing, or that Amazon's managing, in any scenario we're going to give you one set of policy, one set of enforcement across all of this with VMWare Cloud Foundation, as well as the VMC on AWS. >> The software engineering and engineering in general for the data center, where there's hardware, software, the generations of developers have all had the same kind of language, just changes tone. Put a wrapper around it! Container, VMs, but now all the same principles. You want to make something smarter and better like an old mission critical work load, you put a wrapper around it, you kind of put software around it, and you can still run that and have new modern ways to add value to it, connector, whether it's a Micro service or an API, is a trend, the heterogeneous environment you just described, EC2 rack over here, isn't this kind of like a container for the data center? In a way? >> My view on this, and I think Amazon is really pioneering this front, the data center is becoming an appliance. When you think about it, like, every enterprise is buildin their own data center with their own pieces parts, that's nuts! It'd be like, every company building their own furniture. Yeah, you could do it, but like, really? Wouldn't you just rather buy this desk from a furniture maker? And so, Amazon has built an incredibly efficient, incredibly powerful, call it an appliance, this hardware infrastructure, that works, and it works at scale, and it's easy to use, and you can get it in two days, it ships with Amazon Prime, that is super compelling. And I think a huge amount of customers are going to look for that simplicity, that easy of use, what's necessary, you pointed this out, is an abstraction, software abstractions, that's what VMWare does. We create software abstractions to simplify the administration of all the bits and bytes, all the electrons that are flowing from A to B. We make that stuff easier to manage, with virtualization technology, that is an abstraction. >> Operational-wise, I think it is the very key point too. How do you get it to run? (chuckles) Operating the networks, operating the data center, operating systems that feed developers value and giving developers a programmable infrastructure, that's the vision of a software-defined data center. >> So, you talkin about, data centers as an appliance, I always thought Larry Ellison had it right. You develop all these appliances, like the iPhone, for enterprise, the problem was just Oracle, very narrow set of use-cases. I feel like, in a way, that I felt when the Warriors got K.D. Right? That's what Outpost to me, is like, it's almost like an unfair advantage-- >> Game over! >> It changing the game, here, so I, look, VMWare is a software company, you love anybody who will run your software on their hardware. >> But Even Duran is a great analogy. >> But you got to think, that the guys who been playing in this, you know, on-prem cloud market, are going to say, "Whoa, what do we do now? How do we respond," how do you think that affects some of your other partners? >> I think the magic of what Amazon is doing, is it's simplicity from A to Z, meaning, I have a work load, I need to deploy it, I push a button, two days later, this rack of hardware shows up at my data center, you plug it in, it talks to the cloud, it hooks itself, like, that's awesome, right? >> Patches itself, I don't have to worry about it. >> The thing they got to remember, is that data center is a means to an end, not an end in itself, right? What is a data center supposed to, it's powering software that powers the business, and companies are spending too much time building the machinery to power the software to power the business, and they want to focus on the software that's powering the business. >> Software is the world. >> Too much head count, involved in-- >> It's just a lot of work, a lot of energy, a lot of bandwidth, a lot of attention, a lot of arguing, a lot of debate. >> Move that head count into high-value activities. >> Exactly. >> That is really, I think, the key point. And again, it became its own cottage industry, for the wrong reason! >> Yeah, I feel like, working with Amazon, we can simplify how you build, deploy a data center. There's an unsung hero in this equation, that is Intel. Intel is just making these processors faster, stronger, and so, we see less and less need for highly-specialized general, specialized servers, we can go with a more generalized compute infrastructure that can cover a wider array of workloads, including networking. We're using Intel processors, and we're running 40 gigs of enterprise-grade networking-- >> I got to say Tom, that's a great to point out Intel, I was reading the news on my phone, just in between breaks here, the news articles, "Oh, Intel's new competition with ARM," what they don't understand is, this is a massively expanding addressable market. So it's not a winner-take-all, Intel doesn't have to get every deal. 'Cause there's specialism at the silicon-level now, to power these software abstractions. >> To your point too, a decade ago Paul Muret said, "We're going to run any workload, "any application, anywhere in the world, on VMWare," and a lot of people laughed. And said, "You're not going to move some of the SAP stuff, or Oracle stuff," it all went, I mean, except for very, very few. And that's to your point, it's a general purpose system now, that can pretty much do any mainstream commercial app. >> So with the power of an abstraction layer, now we can optimize, and I think we're still learning the details of what exactly Amazon's done to optimize, but we all know, it's powerful, right? And now, you can get that in Outpost. >> They've got some street cred! >> Yes, they've got some street cred, yes. >> Tom, great insight, thanks for coming on theCube. >> Gentlemen, thank you for having me, this is good-- >> Great stuff, Senior Vice President, Senior Executive at VMWare, breaking down the relationship with Amazon, it's like the Golden State Warriors getting Kevin Duran, they run the table, if they had Lebron, that'd be like, best analogy. We'll be back with more live coverage here at theCube cover of AWS Reinvented after this short break. 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