(upbeat music) >> Man: Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live 2020 (upbeat music) brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCUBEs live coverage of Cisco live 2020 here in Barcelona. It's our second full day of coverage. We're actually doing about three and a little bit more days of coverage I'm Stu Miniman my co-host for this segment is Dave Vellante, John Furrier is also in the house. A lot of interesting announcements at Cisco. We've been watching for the three years we've been at Cisco Live. Really Cisco getting much deeper into the software space. Of course we're here in the DevNet Zone where we're watching the changing workforce go even more towards developers. Hardware and software, living together nicely and to help us dig into that topic, we'll welcome back one of our CUBE alumni, Todd Brannon, who is the Senior Director of Computing with Cisco. Todd, thanks so much for joining us. >> It's a pleasure to be here -- >> Dave: Good to see you man. >> Pleasure All right, so let's tee up what I was just talking about there. You know, there are certain companies that think about Cisco in the boxes and ports, we know the future is more software is eating the world developers of course are the new kingmakers. >> That's right. And Cisco has been moving on that journey, so bring us inside a little bit the announcements that you've been working on and where your team's seeing where customers are going. >> It's all about the application. So the AppDynamics team, they did some surveys. They found that the average consumers, 7,000 people worldwide, they surveyed them, average consumers using 34 apps a day or 34 digital experiences and so if you think about applications and infrastructure, we've always talked about applications infrastructure, right People don't buy a server to use as a coat warmer. It's always going to be running some sort of workload. But I think in the past, there wasn't as visceral connection between what the operations and infrastructure teams were running. If it was CRM or ERP, it wasn't as visceral connections you have today when it say the hotels interface to their customers in terms of booking or getting that early checkout, right? So the application experience has become much more personal, much more visceral and really incredibly critical to the business. And so that puts enormous pressure on the infrastructure teams that are a big part of making sure that application experience is a good one, right? Response time or is the app even available? So for us it's how do we start to begin to bring that infrastructure operations team into the fight with the teams that are thinking about applications, which oftentimes when using different tool sets or sort of some operational silos though. So this announcement is all about trying to break down some of those silos all in service of that application experience. >> Right, and of course AppDynamics was a large bet by Cisco. We've seen them in a lot of a Cloud environment, very much tied to the application. One of the announcements this week is taking Cisco Intersight which first time I ran across it was in things like UCS in other Cisco gear there. Help us understand how those are going together now and how should we be thinking about Intersight today in 2020? >> We should definitely be thinking about it differently cause you're right. Here to fore, Intersight has been focused on our computing infrastructure, HyperFlex UCS and, you know, when we started with UCS, we took management out of devices, we moved it into the network fabric and then three years ago with Intersight, we moved our management control plane into the Cloud. So think of Muraki but for computing and but it was always around Cisco and our infrastructure. Now we're taking two really big steps. One is we're integrating a product that we've had called our Workload Optimizer into Intersight. And that Workload Optimizer software has always been inherently a heterogeneous approach. So databases, Cloud management platforms, all the Hypervisors, Operating System, storage partnerships. We've been able to do telemetry and interdependency mapping with that in a heterogeneous way for some time. So now it breaks Intersight out of being more of a Cisco focus to really the reality which is a heterogeneous Data Center environment. Second thing is that, now we've done a data integration with AppD, and so the beauty of that is AppD best-in-class and understanding the interdependencies, those complex web of interdependencies at the application tier. Our Workload Optimizer best in class to understanding infrastructure interdependencies. And now we correlate those and you get a top to bottom view. Again, they kind of get you to where you can see what's an application, how's it performing from a business context with AppD but been able to connect it all the way down into your Cloud and on-prem infrastructure. Make that correlation and ensure that your infrastructure is doing the right things for the app. >> So the application portfolio has evolved dramatically over (laughs) the last 20 years, right? >> Yep. It used to be, you know, and it still is the crown jewels of the organization, but you'd have a mission critical App that's insurance company would have a claims app and then it'd be a zillion other applications around it, but the claims and the sales apps were really the key and whatever happened in the other apps, okay, fine. Now you have developers, you have Shadow IT came in and just do saying everybody's a software company and you had this explosion of apps that are all sucking resources from the network. So the traffic has changed (laughs) and that just brings massive complexity. So wonder if you could talk about how that trend has affected network traffic. >> You hit it, it's the interdependency. So, you know, it's been estimated that the typical enterprise application until very recently needed to talk to four to eight other enterprise applications to function properly. We're seeing that number jumped to 20 in a very near future. And it's because applications to your point are becoming much more modular, right? The development environment in the Cloud where all the innovation is occurring is inherently distributed Microservices, Serverless or functions-based in many cases. So all of the things that conspire together to create that experience, like an insurance claim on your phone, all of those interdependent components, it's become much more distributed, much more complex. And the key thing is underneath each of those components is going to sometimes be different infrastructure managed by different teams with different tooling. And so it's become almost impossible for it teams to correlate all that and manage it. Especially as it becomes, you know, higher velocity. >> Right, it got to. Yeah, Todd, I would like you to put a point on that, cause you've talked about applications are becoming much more distributed. I want to hear what you're hearing from customers. Cause sometimes it's like, "Well, I think of this application as either one thing", or this collection of things that I put one place or another. We're starting to see some customers that well, I start tears things apart and therefore it becomes developed hybrid in nature and people often complain it is, "It's hybrid, it's moldy", it's all this other things. Well, it's a real difference between "I had something in my Data Center and a piece of it is in a Public Cloud", versus, "Oh, Hey, I'm just going to throw a thing in whatever Public Cloud I want to use today or tomorrow". >> I think that's an incredibly important distinction. So multi-Cloud is the notion of, "Hey, I want to be able to consume innovation from different Cloud providers. But a hybrid application is really this idea of Public Cloud or Microservice connecting back to monolith on-prem side and I think it's still very, very rare that people are building applications that tie together multiple Public Cloud services to your point but it's very much more common for people to be saying, "Hey, I've gone out and built something innovative, a new customer experience out in the Public Cloud, but now I have to connect it". Data gravity is real, right? And GDPR here in Europe, right? So there are very real reasons why applications and data are staying on-prem, but they need to connect it out to this Cloud innovation. And that's what this announcement was all about. How do we give people a tool set? Because if you think about it, you're going to have infrastructure powering these pieces in the Cloud, and on-prem, how do you monitor that? How do you ensure that you're not over provisioning or under provisioning? It's a very complex problem. >> Well, it's critical because the Cloud brings scale. You know it used to be, "Okay, we're going to deploy a website. Hey the websites, it's important, it's slow, let's figure it out." Now you have these dozens and hundreds of applications coming in, many if not, most of which are customer facing. So if there's a problem, it's really escalated and the Cloud helps scale that problem, you know, massively. So Todd, help us understand sort of ... in the keynote yesterday there was a sort of the circular diagram of the visualization, the insight and the action. So give us a little sort of insight as to how this works. >> Coupled together. >> What's the secret sauce underneath it? >> So the secret sauce is correlating data, right? So telemetry data is something that we've always collected in the context of either infrastructure or applications. So with AppDynamics, we have a platform that based in the industry, it going out and figuring out all the independencies between an application and all of those services that are there. And then we have all of the similar things on the infrastructure side. And so what we've done here is correlate those data sets. So we're using the API as a feed data between AppDynamics and Cisco Intersight, which is the infrastructure side of the equation. And we create a data Lake now that we can then be able to apply analytics to. And so we can start to think about the Data Center as a demand supply equation and how do I want to match up my applications with the business context intact from AppD to what I'm doing with my infrastructure and provisioning that, so it's really a story of collecting all the telemetry, integrating it, stitching it together, and then applying the analytics to help our operators because it's gone beyond human scale, keeping track of the needs of all these VMs and especially when you get to containers. So it's first about stitching together the data, then applying the analytics for insight and then taking action. So it's automation informed by insight. But first you have to have visibility of everything. So that's the loop. >> It's interesting you talk about demand supply. Again, it used to be you'd manage demand, IT demand with an IT Project Management System and now you've got this infrastructure that is, you know, being sucking apps or sucking resources out of it and you can't just manage it manually. You've got to have the data which you've got and you've got to have some level of automation to be able to remediate things. So how does that fit in to the product and sort of the roadmap? >> So our optimizer product has, you know, you're going to give your credentials for all of the different tooling in your Data Center and you're going to bring it all together for the analytics and then be able to take action in a similar fashion from a central position. So what you see in Intersight Optimizer, it's really powerful as a recommendation engine. So it's going to tell you straight up, "Hey, you've got an ... you have an application and it's going to look at historical data". So over the past, whatever, 30 days, this VM over on AWS, 95% of the time has been running at less than 70% utilization of its assigned resources, so guess what? You should go from instance size three to Instance Size two, and we can even tell the operator, "Here's how much money that's going to save you every month" Do you want to do this, yes or no?" Bum. >> Boom Off you go and you kind of stand up the new instance. Similarly on the on-prem site, this VM has been consuming, you know, more than 95% of its allocated memory. You know, 80% of the time over the past month you should give it some more memory. And because we have optimized our controlling vCenter or you know, the micro, we can go off and make that change. So it's really the analytics to decide what is the right action to take. Then giving the operator the go button to go instantiate it and that's, that's incredibly powerful. >> And it's the same experience for my on-prem workloads, my Amazon, my Azure, and my Alibaba, whatever workloads I'm going to run in the future? >> Correct, and that's essential because of the hybrid dynamic. You know, the innovation is going to go on out in the Cloud, but you got to tie it the backend. So we have to be able to manage both of these at the same time. >> So people might be asking that aren't as you know, into this world as, "Well, why can't I just ... isn't Amazon going to do that for me? Isn't Azure going to do that for me? Or you know, the IBM Cloud, whatever, right? Can you explain, sort of help people understand the differences in the way in which each of these environments, including on-prem handles this type of of activity? >> I think what we're seeing is a maturation of the on-prem side of the equation. So the Cloud-like operating model consuming resources, That model ... Clouds and operating model, it's not a place, right? Everyone's been throwing that around for a few years, but it's very true. And so now on-prem, you know, OpenStack was hard, right? For folks, you know, we know that it just was difficult for people to get to the Private Cloud Nirvana that they wanted to. So with things like Intersight, we're basically starting to deliver, you know, enterprise-ready hardened systems. We're not calling it a Private Cloud, but effectively that's what it is especially when we talk tomorrow about HXAP and what we're doing on the container side, that's ultimately what we're delivering is a Cloud-like experience for the operator. So we're, you know, as a company we're focused on ... we've been focused for 10 years on "How do we create a better operating model in the Data Center". But now we're competing on experience just like our customers are with their App. So we have a mobile app for Intersight, right? And we're focused now on the experience for the operator and bringing that Cloud-like experience on-prem. That's really the ... >> Todd, I'd like you to dig into the organizational impact here a little bit. First of all, from your partners selling these solutions into the customer as well as from a customer standpoint. Because I kind of hear individualized a little bit. Well, you know, AppD is very much an application-centric focus as opposed to Intersight is more of the infrastructure piece of it and those worlds haven't necessarily communicated or you know, there's some gaps. >> They have been the victims of silos on a technology basis and then that does manifest in the organization, right? And we used to see this when we started with Blades back in the early aughts, right? Is it the network? Is the networking team that assign off on this Blade chassis? Well, they can't manage the switching, we're not going to let the server guys manage that, right? So we've kind of seen technology kind of reveal very dysfunctional (laughs) organizational constructs and I think we're trying to help the same dynamic here, but between the folks that are concerned about the application how it relates to the business and looking at the application performance and the teams that manage infrastructure, they haven't had common tooling. And this provides common data sets, a single source of truth so that when something goes wrong, everyone's aware of the same set of conditions. They can see, they can correlate it. We're correlating these two data sets from the app side and the infrastructure side. And it helps the teams work together because you're right, I mean, you've got app teams that look at the world as a you can think of it as a horizontal application topology. But underneath every one of those points on the graph, there's an infrastructure component, maybe different teams. So, and they're looking at the world as stacks. So you've got the infrastructure folks looking up the app folks looking down and unless you've got these worlds correlated, that's what the war-rooms and the finger pointing, it must be the network, who knows. You know, so we're really trying to help teams come together cause ultimately in a business, they're all working for somebody that cares about the whole edge ladder. >> So for from a selling motion, is it that person that they report up to that will drive that? >> It's both. or you find -- >> Well, what we're doing is, you know, we have our infrastructure operations teams, the folks that we work with there now we can bring them a tool set that says, "Here's how we can help you be directly relevant to the business in real time. Here's how to hug your application team and make them happy. He is right, so it's a story of relevance and in a real time way". and then for the application team, it's a story of, "Hey, here's a tool set that ensures the thing that you care about most, which is your precious baby, your application is going to get all the care and feeding it needs from the infrastructure on-prem and the Cloud. And so our AppD team is talking to those application-centric monitoring and operations teams and our, you know, all the folks that work in our Data Center Organization are talking to the infrastructure buyers, but we're now selling them a common tool set. You know, one team kind of coming bottom up the other common top down. >> And it's heterogeneous, I don't need, I don't have to have Cisco gear >> Correct to make this work. And it's a SaaS model -- >> It is SaaS, yes pretty sure. And it's a 2020 availability, right? >> Yes. The calender 2020? >> First half. Yeah. First half. Great. >> Yep All right, Todd, want to give you the final word as we look through 2020 what should be customers be looking for in this space? >> I think they should be thinking about how can they impact the top line and the bottom line, so as an IT organization And on the top line, it's going to be these new application experiences. That's where the companies are innovating, right? To drive revenue, new experiences. And then on the bottom line is, "How do we get rid of over provisioning? How do we operate in a more efficient way?" And to do that, you need analytics, right? I haven't said AIOps, but I'll throw it out in the close, right? But you need analytics to really understand "How do I optimize the environment, reduced my cost of computing and help out with a bottom line." So that's, that's the rest of the year. >> Todd Brannon, really appreciate the conversation. Thanks so much for all the updates. Look forward to talking to you again soon. >> Thank you, pleasure to be here. >> All right, for Dave Vellante, I'm Stu Miniman. Back with much more wall to wall coverage here from Cisco live 2020 in Barcelona. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (bright upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live 2020, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Cisco Live 2020 here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman. My co-host for this segment is Dave Volante. John Furrier is also in the house. We're doing a little more than three days wall-to-wall coverage. One of the big themes we're talking about this week is in this complicated world, networking, containerization, applications going through transformation. Future work simplification is something that is very important and helping us to really tease through and understand some of the integration, some of the announcements where Cisco is helping to simplify the environment, happy to welcome back to the program one of our Cube alumni, Kaustubh Das who is a Vice President of Product Management at Cisco. KD, thanks so much for joining us. >> Oh, I'm delighted to be here, it's great to be here. >> All right. So but up on the main stage, they walk through a number of the announcement. Listen Tony, I was talking about some of the pieces and two of the announcements from the main stage are under your purview. So why don't we start there, walk us through the news. >> Yeah, so there's two two major announcements. The first one's called Cisco Intersight Workload Optimizer. And what it is, it's a way to have visibility into your data center, all the way from the applications and in fact, the user journeys within those applications, all the way down through the virtualization there, through the app servers, through the container platforms down into the servers, the networks, storage lands. So you have a map of the data center. You have a common data set that the application owner and the infrastructure owner can both look at and you finally have a common vocabulary so that it helps them to troubleshoot faster so on a fast reactor way, they talking the same language not pointing fingers at each other or do things proactively to prevent problems from happening when you see a server running hot, a virtual machine running hot, an application server running hot. You can diagnose it and have that conversation before it happens. >> My understanding is that Intersight and there's also some integrations with AppDynamics there, AppD which of course we know we talk to that team at the Amazon Cloud shows a lot. So that common vocabulary spans between my hybrid and multi cloud environments. Am I getting that right? >> Correct and there's two pieces even within that. So certainly that's integrations with AppD so from AppD we get information about the application performance. We get information about the business metrics associated with the application performance. We get information about the journeys that user take within the application and then we take that data then we stitch it together with infrastructure data to map how many applications are dependent on which application servers, how many VMs are those dependent on, what does those VMs run on? What hosts are they dependent on, what networks do they Traverse, what lands do they run on? And each one of these is an API call into that element in the infrastructure stack. Each API call gives us a little bit of data and then we piece together this data to create this map of the of the entire data center. There's a multi cloud aspect to it obviously and so we also make API calls into AWS and Azure and clouds out there and we get data about utilization of the various instance types. We get data about performance from the cloud as well. >> So two announcements. Insight Workload Optimizer and HyperFlex AppDynamics, is that right or they are separate? >> HyperFlex application platform. >> Okay. >> So if we look at the, let me just put these two in context. Every enterprise is doing two things. It's trying to run application that it already hosts and then it's writing some bespoke new applications. So the first announcement, the Cisco Intersight Workload Optimizer and the integration of the AppD, that helps us be more performant for applications we're running, to have troubleshoot faster, to have reduced cost in a multiply cloud environment. The second announcement Dave, the HyperFlex application platform, it's really targeted towards developers who are writing new applications on a container platform. And for those developers, IT needs to give them a simple appliance like easy to use container as a service platform. So what HX AP HyperFlex application platform is is a container as a service platform driven from the cloud so that the developer gets the same experience that they get when they go to an AWS and and request a pod. But they get it on-prem and it's fully 100% upstream Kubernetes compliant. It's curated by us so it's very simple appliance like feel for development environments on container. >> Okay. So Insight Workload Optimizer, it really attacks the problem of sort of the mystery of what goes on inside VMs and the application team, the infrastructure team, they're not talking to each other. You're bringing a common, like you said parlance together. >> Kaustubh: Correct. >> Really so they can solve problems and that that trickles down to cost optimization as well as performance. >> It does, aha. >> And I understand hyper HyperFlex app platform it's really bringing that cloud experience to on-prem for hybrid environments. >> For our new development. So if you're developing on containers, you're probably using Kubernetes but you're probably using this entire kind of ecosystem of open source tools. >> Yeah. >> And we make that simple. >> Okay. >> We make it simple for developers to use that and variety to provide that to developers. >> Okay. since underneath, there's HyperFlex. is there still virtualization involved in there and how does this tie in with the rest of the Kubernete solutions that we were talking about with your cloud partner? >> Great, great. Great question. So yes, there is HyperFlex underneath this. So to develop, you need a platform. The best platform we think is the elastic platform that is hyper-convergence. And with type of flex, we took storage networking and compute, packaged it together, made it super simple. We're doing the same thing with Kubernetes. So it's the same concept that how do you take complex things, package it together and make it almost appliance like. We said we're doing the same thing with Kubernetes. Now Stu, the point about virtualization is a good one. A lot of container deployments today are run in virtual machines. And they run in virtual machines for good reason, for isolation, for multi-tenancy, for all these kinds of ignition. However, the promise of containers was to sort of get rid of the tax that you pay when you deploy a virtualization environment. And what we're giving out right now is no tax, no virtualization tax virtualization environment. So we have a layer over transition in there. It's designed for this use case so it does give the isolation, it does give the multi-tenancy benefits but you don't need to need to pay additionally for it if you're deploying on containers-- >> Job wise it is some KB and base type solution >> Kaustubh: Correct. >> Underneath, it makes a lot of sense if you look at the large virtualization player out there. It's been talking about how do I enable the infrastructure that's all virtualized and everything and bring them along to that journey >> Correct. >> For that bridge if you will to the environment? Sure containerization sometimes I want to be able to spin it up super fast. It leaves, it dies, but if I'm putting something in my data center, probably the characteristics I'm looking at are a little bit different. >> Correct, correct. The other thing it does and you touched on it a little bit was we have a homogeneous environment with the major clouds out there. So one of the things developers want to do is they want to develop in one place and they want to deploy in another place so develop on Amazon and deploy on-prem or Azure. We've got an environment with very native integrations so that it's natively integrated into EKS and AKS. And we facilitate that develop anywhere, deploy anywhere motion for developers who are trying to build on this. >> So okay. What does the customer have to do to consume these solutions? >> So our customer right now for this one is IT operations. It maybe helps to bit back a little bit on why we did this. I had a lot of customers come to me and they said listen, I'm IT, I'm in the business of taking shrink-wrap software, taking enterprise-grade resilient infrastructure, putting that together. I'm not in the business of getting open source drops, every week, every day, every month, putting them together by making sure all the versions line up and doing that again and again and again. So the putting together an Ikea piece part of open source software has not been traditionally the IT operator's business. So our customer is that IT operator. What they need to do is they buy a, if they may have a HyperFlex system already, or they buy a HyperFlex effect system. They add on a license for the HyperFlex application platform. They have an Intersight license. This is delivered from the cloud so Intersight manages that deployment, manages the lifecycle, manages the upgrades and so forth. If they have a state that spreads across multiple sites, Intersight is cloud-based so it can actually reach all those sites and so they're in business. >> Okay, so very low prerequisite. You just got to have the product and you can add on to it. >> Yeah, I have the HyperFlex system, add on to the license, you're done. >> So I'm curious. How unique do you see this in the marketplace? I think the keynotes this morning is that there's no other company that can actually do this. I wonder if you can sort of add some color to that and just help our viewers understand the uniqueness of Cisco's offer. >> Sure. So I think it's unique on a number of different dimensions. The first dimension is HyperFlex itself. We've had an appliance mentality to this for a long time and we really co-designed the software and the hardware to build the most performance hyper-converged system out there. We took the same approach when we went down the path of Kubernetes and building this container platform. And so it's called design software and infrastructure together. The second thing is we said we're going to be 100% upstream Kubernetes compliant right, so if you look at the major offerings out there in this space, they're often several months actually behind where the open source is, where the upstream of the sources and developers don't want that. They want the latest and greatest, they want they want to be current, right. So we are far ahead of most of the other offerings out there in terms of how close they are to their upstream commodities. The final piece is Intersight. Intersight gives us immense ability to have scale where especially if you're developing on containers and micro services, you're talking tens of thousands, many tens of thousands of N nodes, maybe more. And being in the cloud, we have the scale and we have reached so a lot of our customers have distributed assets and branches and you know, hotel chains with hotels and so forth. Intersight allows us the ability to actually deploy across a distributed asset class with with the centralized kind of provisioning. >> You see a huge uptake right now and containers generally Kubernetes, specifically. It's sort of across the board but I wonder if you could comment on how much of that demand and activity is coming from sort of the traditional IT roles versus with other hoody developers? >> Yeah, that's that's a great question. So yes, there is a on a hype cycle it's at the top of the hype cycle. Everybody's in actual adoption. I think it's pretty good as well right. So that is every company I talk to is doing something in containers, every company. But usually, it starts at the developers. It starts with like you described with the folks in the hoodies and that's great. I mean they're experimenting, they're getting this thing. What hasn't happened is it hasn't gotten mainstream. And things can mainstream is when IT picks it up. It certifies hey this is resilient, this is enterprise-grade, I can stand behind it, I can manage the lifecycle of it. That's what we're enabling here. I'm giving IT a path to mainstream containers, to mainstream Kubernetes so that the adoption kind of takes it from that pipe cycle to mainstream adoption. >> Do you see K.D. new sort of data protection approaches or thinking as containers come into play? I mean they're ephemeral, you know microservices sometimes aren't so micro. Like you say, they're running often times inside a VM. So how are people thinking about protecting containers? >> Yeah, yeah, that's a big topic in itself. I mean one of the things that we found is even though they were supposed to be ephemeral, they require persistent storage so we've implemented within hyperflex a CSI plugin that provides that persistent storage layer to containers. Then once you do that, all of the data protection mechanism of HyperFlex come into play. So within the cluster, the resiliency, the triple replication, the backups, the partnerships we have with their other data protection pairs, all of those mechanisms become available instantly and those are enterprise-grade. Those are ones that IT knows and can stand behind. Those become available to containers right away >> Great. >> But it's great, great question. >> Awesome. >> Just want to go back to when you were talking about Intersight and the reach and the scale of the solution reminds me that Cisco has a strong legacy in global environment. What I'm curious about, we've talked a little bit about Edge computing in the past. >> Kaustubh: Yes. >> Where are you seeing Edge today? Where is that going? What should we be looking at in that space when it comes to Edge? >> Yeah, no, it's a big part of our customer demand. In fact, we haven't seen I think all flash was the other technology that took place so fast but Edge has been really phenomenal in its growth rate. Over the last year, we've seen I think probably up to 15% to 20% of my engagements are in this space on at least the hyper convert side. So we see that as a big growth area. More and more deployments are happening. They're being centrally managed, deployed at the edges and so the only solution that scales to something like that is something that's based on the cloud. But it's not just enough to be based in the cloud. You've got to maintain that entire lifecycle right? You've got to make sure you can do installs, upgrades, you know OS installs, health monitoring and so as we built that Intersight platform, we've added all those capabilities to it over time So we started with hey this is a SAS-based management platform and then we added telemetry and then we said if we can actually match signatures, now machines can manage machines. So a good amount of my support calls are now machines calling each other and then fixing themselves. So that's just path-breaking from an informant Edge environment. You don't have an IT person, add an Edge location. You want to drop, ship an appliance there, and you want to be able to see it remotely. So I think it's a completely new operating model. >> I know we got to go but I want to run your scenario by K.D.'s. Do share with me from one of my breaking analysis. Look Dave, you mentioned Flash, that's what triggered me. (laughing) So think of containers and Kubernetes, think of like Flash. Remember Flash used to be the separate thing which we used to think it was a separate market and now it's just everywhere, it's embedded in everything. >> Kaustubh: Yes. >> So the same thing is going to happen with Kubernetes. It's going to be embedded in solutions. This is exactly what it is. By 2023, we're probably not going to be talking about it as a separate thing, maybe that's sooner. It's really just going to be ubiquitous, yeah. >> No, I totally agree. I think the underpinnings that you need for that future, you need a common infrastructure platform and a common management platform. So you don't want to have a new Silo creator and this has been our philosophy even for hyperconvergence. We said hey, there's going to be converging infrastructure that will be hyper converted. But they need to be the same management system, they need to be the same fabric. And so if it's Silo is not going to work. Same thing for containers you know. It's got to be the same platform in this case, it's HyperFlex. Hyperflex runs virtualization, it runs containers with HXAP. You get all of those benefits that I've talked about. It's all management insights, it's a common management platform across both of those. At some point, these are all tools in somebody's tool kit and you pick the right one for the job. >> Kaustubh, it is wonderful to hear the company that has been dominant in one of the silos for so long of course helping to bring the silos together work across the domains. Congratulations on that good news, always great to have you. >> Yeah, always great to be here, thank you. >> Dave: Thank you. >> For Dave Folante, I'm Stu Miniman back from lunch where we hear more from Cisco live in Barcelona 2020. Thank you for watching theCUBE.