(soft electronic music) >> Welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm Lisa Martin. This conversation is part of our third AWS Startup Showcase for this year. I'm pleased to welcome Knox Anderson, the VP of Product Management at Sysdig. Knox, welcome to the program. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Talk to me a little bit about Sysdig, secure DevOps for containers, Kubernetes, and cloud. Give the audience an overview of what you guys do. >> So Sysdig is this secure DevOps platform that provides observability, security, and compliance functions for anyone that's adopting Kubernetes and Cloud. We really secure the entire lifecycle from source to production, so do things like scan your ISE for misconfiguration, monitor your runtime environments for threats and operational best practices. We provide a lot of capabilities around Prometheus Monitoring, as well, and then also let organizations perform incident response and compliance audits against these environments. >> So founded in 2013, talk to me about the gap in the market that you guys saw then and what some of the key challenges are that you saw for your customers. >> Yeah so we came to market around the same time as containers and Kubernetes and I'd say 2015 to 2018 we kept on saying it's the year of Kubernetes, it's the year of Kubernetes, it's the year of Kubernetes. And then really during the last year and a half in the COVID pandemic, Kubernetes has gone gangbusters. Every major cloud is seeing a huge adoption in their Kubernetes services so that's really our wedge into a lot of organizations. They're changing their platform to take advantages of containers and Kubernetes and you really have to rethink all of your security tooling, and that's when a company like Sysdig comes in. >> Talk to me about customers in terms of, especially in the last year and a half when things have been so dynamic, we've seen so much too, on the threat landscape front changing. Give me an example of a customer or two that you're really helped with solving some of their major challenges, here. >> Yeah, a great customer that we work with is SAP Concur and they kind of encompass a lot of the things that are nice about modern DevOps. So it's a DevOps team that's running a Kubernetes platform that thousands of developers are building their apps and deploying those onto. And they chose Sysdig because really it's not scalable to have every single data team ping that DevOps team and say what's the performance of my service, how is it responding, how can I get scanning integrated with that and so they use Sysdig as a platform that allows developers to easily onboard onto their Kubernetes clusters and then ensure that they're meeting compliance needs and FedRAMP needs for that platform that they deliver their core business apps on. >> Let's talk about the Sysdig's commitment to opensource on the Falco project. >> So Falco is a opensource project that we started at Sysdig, it's built on top of our core system core instrumentation. And so Falco meets a lot of your IDS or your file integrity monitoring requirements that you might have as you move to Kubernetes. And really, it's something we started at about 2016. In 2019, we donated that project to the CMCS which is the same governance body behind Kubernetes, Prometheus, and other kind of core building blocks of the climate of ecosystem. Since then, it's grown immensely. Companies like Shopify are using it to make sure that their PCI apps that they run Kubernetes are fully compliant. And so it's something that we are constantly contributing to the community also from even companies like AWS is a core contributor to the Falco project. And I'm really excited to see where it goes over the next year as Falco extends to also cover some cloud security use cases. >> What can you tell me about the relationship that Sysdig and AWS have? >> They've been a great partner. We internally run our SaaS on AWS so we're using AWS services to deliver our product to our customers. And then we've also really worked closely around how you can provide better security for services like Fargate. So we did working sessions with their engineering teams, learned what we could do to get the visibility that we need for tools like Falco and Sysdig to work seamlessly in Fargate environments. And last April we were able to kind of, AWS released that new functionality, Sysdig built on top of that, and we've already seen great adoption of customers using the Sysdig product on top of Fargate. >> Excellent. Well thank you very much, Knox, for stopping by theCUBE telling us about Sysdig, what you guys are doing ahead of the AWS Startup Showcase. We appreciate your time and your information. >> Thanks for having me. >> For Knox Anderson, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this CUBE Conversation. (soft electronic music)

(thoughtful electronic music) >> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Enterprise applications are an enormous market, and they're enormously important to organizations globally. Essentially, the world's businesses are running on enterprise applications. Companies' processes are wired into these systems, and the investments that they make in people, process, and technology are vital to these companies' success. But it's complicated because many of these systems are decades old. Markets have changed, but the ERP system for example fundamentally hasn't. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. This week, we're going to do a data download on the enterprise software space, and put forth some themes in our thesis around this very important segment. I'd like to do a shout-out to my friend Sarbjeet Johal, who helped me frame this segment, and he's a strategic thinker and he shared some excellent insights for this episode. What I'd first like to do is let's lay out the scope of what we're going to talk about today. So we're going to focus on the core enterprise apps that companies rely on to run their businesses. Talkin' about the systems of record here, the ERP, the financial systems, HR, CRMs, service management we'll put in there. We may touch on some of the other areas, but this is core that we're going to drill into. This is a big, big market. Customers spend many hundreds of billions of dollars in this area, you could argue about a half a trillion. And it's a mature market, as you'll see from the data. Look, it's good to be in the technology business today. This business is doing better than most, and within the technology business, it's better to be in software because of the economics and scale. And if you have a SaaS cloud model, it's even better. But the market, it is fragmented, not nearly as much as it used to be, but there are many specialized areas where leaders have emerged. ServiceNow and ITSM or Workday and HCM are good examples of companies that've specialized and then exploded, first as we saw ServiceNow blow past Workday's valuation. It was nearly 2x at one point. Now, that was before Workday crushed its earnings this week. It's up 15% today. ServiceNow took a slight breather earlier this month, but it's up on Workday sympathy today. Salesforce also beat earnings, and of course replaced Exxon Mobile on the DOW Industrials, can you imagine that? But let's bring it back to this digital transformation that you hear about. This is the big cliche from all the tech companies and especially software players. Now a lot of this DX, I sometimes call it, is related to old systems. It's especially true for the mega-caps like Oracle, SAP, PeopleSoft, JD Edwards, and even Microsoft. Take ERP and some of the mature products for example, like Oracle R12, or SAP R3 or R4. Many of these systems were put in place 15 years ago, and yeah, they're going to need to transform. They are burnt in. They were installed in what, 2005? It was before the iPhone, before social media, before machine learning and AI made its big comeback, and before cloud. These systems were built on the 1.0 of cloud. The businesses have changed but the software really hasn't. It happens every 10 to 15 years, companies have to upgrade or re-implement their systems, and optimize for the way business now runs, because they had to be more competitive and more agile. They can't do it on their old software. And God help you if you made a bunch of custom modifications. Good lucking tryin' to rip those out. And this is why pure play companies in the cloud like ServiceNow and Workday have done so well. They're best-of-breed and they're cloud, and it sets up this age-old battle that we always talk about, best-of-breed versus integrated suites. So let's bring in some of the other themes and feedback that we get from the community. Now we've definitely seen this schism play out between on-prem and cloud plays. And that's created some challenges for the legacy players. People working remotely has meant less data center, less on-prem action for the legacy companies. Now, they have gone out and acquired to get to the cloud and/or they've had to rearchitect their software like Oracle has done with Fusion. But think about something like Oracle Financials. Oracle is tryna migrate them to Fusion, or think about SAP R3, with R4, SAP pushing HANA. All this is going to cloud-based SaaS. So the companies that've been pure play SaaS are doing better, and I say quasi-modern on this slide because Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, even Coupa, NetSuite which is now Oracle, SuccessFactors which SAP purchased, et cetera, these are actually pretty old companies, the earlier part of the 2000s or in the case of Salesforce, 1999. And you're seeing some really different pricing models in the market. Things are moving quickly to an OPEX model. You have the legacy perpetual pricing, and it's giving way to subscriptions, and now we even see companies like Datadog and Snowflake with so-called consumption-based pricing models, priced as a true cloud. And we think that that's going to eventually spill into the core SaaS applications. Now one of the concerns that we've heard from the community is that some of the traditional players that were able to hide from COVID earlier this year might not have enough deferred revenue dry powder to continue to power through the pandemic, but so far the picture continues to look pretty strong for the software companies. We'll get into some of that. Now, finally, this is a premise that I talked to Sarbjeet about, the disruption perhaps comes from cloud and developer ecosystems. Y'know I remember John Furrier and I had a conversation awhile back with Jerry Chen from Greylock. It was on theCUBE, and it was kind of like, went like this. People were talking about whether AWS was going to enter the applications market, and the thesis here is no, or not in the near future. Rather, the disruptive play, and this is really Sarbjeet's premise, is to provide infrastructure for innovation, and a PaaS layer for differentiation, and developers will build modern cloud-native apps to compete with the SaaS players on top of this. This is intriguing to me, and is likely going to play out over the next decade, but it's going to take a while, because these SaaS players are, they're very large, and they continue to pour money into their platforms. Now let's talk about the shift from CAPEX to OPEX and bring in some ETR data. Of course, this was well in play pre-COVID, but the trend has been accelerating. This chart shows data from the August ETR survey, and it was asking people to express their split between CAPEX and OPEX spend, and as you can see, the trend is clear. Goes from 48% last year, 55% today, and moving to over 62% OPEX a year from now. It's no surprise, but I think it could happen even faster depending on the technical debt that organizations have to shed. And hence, the attractiveness again of the SaaS cloud players. So now let's visualize some of the major players in this space, and do some comparisons. Here we show one of our favorite views, and what we're doing here is we juxtapose net score on the vertical axis with market share on the horizontal plane. Remember, net score is a measure of spending momentum. Each quarter, ETR asks buyers, are you planning to spend more or less, and they essentially subtract the lesses from the mores to derive net score. Market share on the other hand is a measure of pervasiveness in the dataset, and it's derived from the number of mentions in the sector divided by the total mentions in the survey, and you can see each metric in that embedded table that we put in there. So I said earlier, this was a pretty mature market and you can see that in the table. Eh, kind of middle-of-the-road net scores with pretty large shared ends, i.e. responses in the dataset, but a lot of red. There are some standouts, however, as you see in the upper right, namely, ServiceNow and Salesforce. These are two pretty remarkable companies. ServiceNow entered the market as a help desk or service management player, and has dramatically expanded its TAM, really to the point where they're aiming at $5 billion in revenue. Salesforce was the first in cloud CRM, and is pushing 20 billion in revenue. I've said many times, these companies are on a collision course, and I stand by that, as any of the next great software companies, and these are two, are going to compete with all the mega-caps, including Oracle, SAP, and Microsoft, and they'll bump into each other. Which brings us to those super-cap companies. You see Microsoft with Dynamics, they show up like they always do. I'm like a broken record on Microsoft. I mean they're everywhere in the survey data. Now Oracle and SAP, they've been extremely acquisitive over the years, and you can see some of their acquisitions on this chart. I've said many times in theCUBE that Larry Olsen used to denigrate his competitors for writing checks instead of code, but he saw the consolidation trend happening in the ERT, ERP space before anyone else did, and with the $10 billion PeopleSoft acquisition in 2005, set off a trend in enterprise software that did a few things. First, it solidified Oracle's position further up the stack. It also set Dave Duffield and Aneel Bhusri off to create a next-generation cloud software company, Workday, which you can see in the chart has a net score up there with ServiceNow, Salesforce, and Coupa, and it also led to Oracle Fusion Middleware, which is designed as an integration point for all these software components, and this is really important because Oracle is moving everything into its cloud. And you can see that its on-prem net score, which puts it deep into negative territory. Now SAP, take a look at them, they have much higher net scores than Oracle, and you can see it's acquired SaaS properties like Ariba, Concur, and SuccessFactors, which have decent momentum. But you know, SAP, and we've talked about this before, is not without its challenges. With SAP, HANA is the answer to all of its problems. The problem is that it's not necessarily the answer to all of SAP's customers' problems. Most of SAP's legacy customers run SAP on Oracle or other databases. HANA is used for the in-memory query workload, but most customers are going to continue to use other databases for their systems of record. So this adds complexity. But HANA is very good at the query piece. However, SAP never did what Oracle did with Fusion, which as you might recall, took more than a decade to get right. HANA is SAP's architectural attempt to unify the SAP portfolio and get, (laughs) really get off of Oracle, but it's many years away, and it's unclear when or if they'll ever get there. All right, let's move on. Here's a look at a similar set of companies, but I wanted to show you this view because it gives you a detailed look at ETR's net score approach, and it tells us a few things more. And remember, this is a survey of almost 1,200 technology buyers. That's the N, that's the respondent rate. So this chart shows the net score granularity for the enterprise players that we were just discussing. Let me explain this. Net score is actually more detailed than what I said before. It comprises responses in four categories. The lime green is new adoptions. The forest green is growth in spending of 6% or more, the gray is flat spend, the pink is a budget shrink of 6% or greater, and the red is retiring the platform. So what this tells us is that there's a big fat middle of stay the same. The lime green is pretty small, but you can see, NetSuite jumps out for new adoptions because they've been very aggressive going after smaller and mid-sized companies, and Coupa, the spend management specialist, shows reasonably strong new adoptions. Now ServiceNow is interesting to me. Not a ton of new adoptions. They've landed the ship and really penetrated larger organizations. And while new adoptions are not off the charts, look at the spending more categories, it's very very strong at 46%. And the other really positive thing for ServiceNow is there's very little red. This company is a beast. Now Salesforce similarly, not tons of new adoptions, but 40% spend more. For a company that size, that's pretty impressive. Workday similarly has a very strong spending profile. At the bottom of the chart, you see a fair amount of red, as we saw on the XY graph. But now, let's take another view of net score. Think of this as a zoom in, which takes those bar charts but shows it in a pie format for individual companies. So we're showing this here for ServiceNow, Workday, and Salesforce, and we've superimposed the net score for these three in green, so you can see ServiceNow at 48%, very good for a company headed toward five billion. Same with Workday, 40% for a company of similar size, and Salesforce has a comparable net score, and is significantly larger than those two revenue-wise. Now this is the same view, this next chart's the same view for SAP and Oracle, and you can see substantially lower than the momentum leaders in terms of net score. But these are much larger companies. SAP's about 33 billion, Oracle's closer to 40 billion. But Oracle especially has seen some headwinds from organizations spending less which drags its net score down. But you're not seeing a lot of replacement in Oracle's base because as I said at the top, these systems are fossilized and many are running on Oracle. And the vast majority of mission-critical workloads are especially running on Oracle. Now remember, this isn't a revenue-weighted view. Oracle charges a steep premium based on the number of cores, and it has a big maintenance stream. So while its net score is kind of sucky, its cashflow is not. All right, let's wrap it up here. We have a very large and mature market. But the semi-modern SaaS players like Salesforce and ServiceNow and Workday, they've gone well beyond escape velocity and solidified their positions as great software companies. Others are trying to follow that suit and compete with the biggest of the bigs, i.e. SAP and Oracle. Now I didn't talk much about Microsoft, but as always they show up prominently. They're huge and they're everywhere in this dataset. What I think is interesting is the competitive dynamics that we talked about earlier. These kind of newer SaaS leaders, they're disrupting Oracle and SAP, but they're also increasingly bumping into each other. You know, ServiceNow has HR for example, and they say that they don't compete with Workday, and that's true. But y'know, these two companies, they eye each other and they angle for account control. Same thing with Salesforce. It's that software mindset. The bigger a software company gets, the more they think they can own the world, because it's software, and if you're good at writing code and you see an opportunity that can add value for your customers, you tend to go after it. Now, we didn't talk much about M&A, but that's going to continue here, especially as these companies look for TAM expansion and opportunities to bring in new capabilities, particularly around data, analytics, machine learning, AI and the like, and don't forget industry specialization. You've seen Oracle pick up a number of industry plays and as digital transformation continues, you'll see more crossing of the industry streams because it's data. Now, the disruption isn't blatantly obvious in this market right now, other than SaaS clouds going after SAP and Oracle, and it's because these companies are deeply entrenched in their customer organizations and change is risky. But the cloud developer, the open source API trend, it could lead to disruptions, but I wouldn't expect that until the second half of this decade as cloud ecosystems really begin to evolve and take hold. Okay, well that's it for today. Remember, these Breaking Analysis episodes, they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe. I publish weekly on Wikibon.com and SiliconANGLE.com, so check that out, and please do comment on my LinkedIn posts. Don't forget, check out ETR.plus for all the survey action. Get in touch on Twitter, I'm @dvellante, or email me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (thoughtful electronic music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hi, everybody, welcome to this CUBE Insights, powered by ETR. In this episode of the Breaking Analysis, we're going to take a look at SAP. Thursday, October 10th, SAP surprised the Street, they announced early, they preannounced their earnings, and at the same time they timed that with the announcement that CEO, longtime CEO Bill McDermot was stepping down, his contract was up for renewal in January of 2020, and he decided that he's going to turn it over to a co-CEO structure that I'll talk about a little bit, so that was big news. Spending on SAP has been holding pretty steady over the last several quarters, I'll share some ETR data with you. It's been quite a run by Bill McDermott, he started out as CEO, I think it was February of 2010, as co-CEO with Jim Hagemann Snabe, and then two years later was named the sole CEO and I'll share some data on that in terms of the performance of SAP during his tenure. But the bottom line is, we expect, based on the spending data, some continued momentum from SAP, I'll show you some data that shows a little bit of a mix in the numbers, ETR basically just dropped a report on Friday that I'll share with you as well, but the bottom line is we see some major challenges ahead for SAP, specifically from a technology integration point that I'll talk to you, and it really is not showing up yet in the spending numbers, but it's something that we're keeping an eye on, and it's something that we want to share with you, our community. So Alex, if you wouldn't mind bringing up the first slide, here. I'll make some key points, really around SAP's Q3 earnings and the CEO news. So as they say, they pre-announced earnings on October 10th after the close, 10% revenue growth, which is a nice, healthy double digit revenue growth, cloud was up considerably, Bill McDermott made the big emphasis when he was doing the rounds on how their cloud revenue is growing faster than competitors, 33%, but definitely from a smaller base, but their license revenue, their traditional on-prem businesses continues to be under pressure and decline, it's got a, SAP is a strong services business, services and maintenance business, and they're up to 12,000 customers with HANA, I'll make some comments on HANA in a little bit later. This may have some implications for Europe, we've been saying that Europe is over-banked, that banking is soft based on the ETR spending data, so this may be a little bit of a bright spot for Europe. Of course SAP with its ERP business of strong manufacturing, anybody who has a supply chain, so this may be a good sign for Europe, that's something that we're watching. And then, say McDermott steps down, we're going back to the dual CEO structure. Jennifer Morgan, who headed the cloud business, is a longtime SAP employee, and she essentially is going to be taking that role of the customer-facing CEO. Christian Kline is really, has history as product development and HANA, he did a stint in finance at SuccessFactors, and is really an operations guru, so back to that dual CEO role that you saw with Snabe and McDermott, where McDermott was really the front-facing, sales-facing individual, and Snabe was the product person. So that's kind of an interesting structure, we see that, we saw that in Oracle before Mark Hurd stepped down with Safra Catz as co-CEO, so it's not a unique structure, although it's not, certainly not common in the industry. The next thought I want to share with you is one that you may have seen before, every time that ETR does a survey, and this is data, fresh data from the October survey, every time they do a survey, they take spending intentions and they ask folks, "Are you spending more, "are you spending less, are you spending the same, "are you adding to the platform, "are you subtracting from the platform?" So they essentially ignore the, for this net score that I'm showing you now, they ignore the people that aren't spending, that are staying the same, flat, and they take the more minus the less, subtract amount, you get a net score, and the net score here is 27%. This is not uncommon for, from the data that I've seen out of ETR for a large company established legacy provider like SAP. Net score 27% is not great, but it's a holding steady score, it's not in the negatives, it's not in the red zone, and so you can see here that 32% of the survey respondents were saying they're going to spend more, 54% basically flat, but only a smaller number, 6%, saying they're going to spend less, so it's reasonable for SAP, but if you look at the trendline, Alex, bring up the next slide, look at the spending trendline from the survey for SAP since the July 16 survey, they do this every quarter, and so the blue is the net score, that green minus the red that I've talked about in the past, and you can see that sort of steady decline, but this is not a disaster, what it is, is it's a sign of spending momentum relative to previous years or previous quarters, and you can see the yellow line is also declining, that's market share, what that means is market share in terms of spend relative to other initiatives, so the categories that SAP participates in, enterprise software, et cetera, spending on SAP relative to other sectors has been in decline. If you look at, Alex, if you bring up the next slide, look at the SaaS business, you'll see that it's a much happier story. SAP's made a number of acquisitions that I'll talk about in a moment, of cloud/SaaS players, so you can see their SaaS position has been holding firm, ETR cites Concur, SuccessFactors, Ariba, Callidus, they kind of remaining stable versus a year ago, and you can see the market share's kind of ticking up, so pretty solid from the new growth, that high growth area, and that's something that the Street really pays very close attention to. The next data point that I want to show you on the next slide is actually quite fascinating, so SAP beat its forecasts, so it didn't beat and raise expectations for the rest of the year, but so what this shows is ETR's regression analysis, what the quants at ETR do, is they crunch the numbers, and they compare them to the consensus on Wall Street, and they actually forecast higher or lower, where they think that earnings are going to come in based on their spending data, so you can see here that green, you see that little RPM meter, they're in the green, that's where you want to be, 359 basis points ahead of the median forecast, so they're saying, so the ETR second half spending 10.4% versus consensus of 6.8%, very positive sign. I think it's no coincidence that SAP records B for the quarter, so based on that data collected in that October survey, it looks like there's some momentum for SAP. Now the next slide I want to show you is the stock chart, this is kind of the scorecard, if you will, for Bill McDermott's tenure, and you can see, so I went back to 2010, as I say, he started in 2010, as a co-CEO with Jim Snabe, and then look at the performance here, I mean it's been pretty solid. And so you see today it's up around 10%, as I say, they announced the earnings beat, they announced their revenue beat, and they basically affirmed expectations, maybe raised them a little bit going forward. The reason why the stock is up is the beat, but also McDermott has put in place sort of an efficiency improvement and a restructuring. They've made a promise to improve operating margins by 1% a year over the next five years. They've made a promise to get cloud gross margins to 75% by 2023. They've done a restructuring, I think it affects around 4400 people, and they're hiring data scientists and AI experts and machine learning people, and RPA folks, they acquired an RPA company a while ago, and kind of just threw that in 'cause it's such a hot space. Software coders all around the world, China, US, Europe, all over the place. And so that restructuring, the Street loves when you restructure, you cut the dead wood, so to speak. With all due respect to the folks that might be affected by this, but the Street loves that. So you're seeing the combination of the beat, and the uptick or the efficiencies taking place in the quarter, and they timed that with the McDermott announcement because they wanted to, I'm sure, time it with some positive news, so you can see the stocks up today, so that's kind of a scorecard on Bill McDermott, I have to say, pretty impressive performance over the last 10 years, or nearly 10 years. But here's the thing, we see some major challenges coming forth with SAP, and I want to talk about that a little bit. Before I do, Alex, if you would play the video from Bill McDermott answering a question that John Furrier asked several years ago, and then we'll come back and talk about it. >> I had a meeting with the CEO yesterday, and this is a very common conversation. He grew his business by acquisition, and now he's got a federation of a whole bunch of companies, and he feels like a holding company. What he wants to do is consolidate these businesses onto a common platform. He won't do it overnight because you can't shut down businesses, but the vision over the next few years is consolidate everything onto one common SAP platform, and take all the databases out and standardize everything on HANA. >> Now here's what's ironic. The core success of SAP historically has been what? It's been that they have a single, unified system, the general ledger and all the financial data and all the supply chain data, all of that is in the same place, accessible, single version of the truth if you will. What's ironic is SAP's made 31 acquisitions in the last nearly 10 years under the tenure of Bill McDermott. So in a way, SAP is becoming a tech holding company, kind of picking up on some of the things that Bill McDermott said in his little clip there. In our view, SAP's big technical challenge is to get all this stuff working together. As you all know, it's nontrivial when you make a lot of acquisitions, billions and billions of dollars of acquisitions, which by the way, they promised to stop that torrid pace of multibillion dollar acquisitions, very difficult to pull those together. Let's look at some of those acquisitions that they've made, Ariba, Concur, SuccessFactors, SuccessFactors is interesting because SuccessFactors was kind of talent management, you had kind of core HR from SAP and it's kind of been a challenge to put those things together. Think about the legacy R3 and R4 and all the on-prem manufacturing stuff that SAP still runs, that customers still run. Acquisition of Sybase, Callidus, so... SAP's answer to all this integration is to put everything in memory in HANA. So the motivation for HANA, however, in many ways was to compete more effectively with Oracle and not have to rely so much on the Oracle database and get people off Oracle. But here's the thing that SAP didn't do that Oracle did do, and I think, my opinion, Oracle got right. Oracle did Fusion, they bit the bullet and did Oracle Fusion, it took the better part of a decade, it actually took more than a decade, but every time Oracle buys a company, and every SAS application that it jams into the Red Stack, runs Fusion middleware, and runs the Oracle database. So, it's not the case with HANA. So it's kind of an integration nightmare, it's very very complex what SAP has got handed to the new regime. I think this is a daunting task, and I think this might be in part why the timing of Bill McDermott stepping down, I mean he sees that this is going to be a heavy lift, it's going to need more of a product-focused leadership team, that's why I think it's smart that SAP has maybe gone back to that two-headed monster of two CEOs, one that's customer-facing and one that's more product-oriented and R&D-oriented because they have a major integration challenge ahead of them. So as I say, SAP has promised to stop making these multibillion dollar acquisitions, they got to get to work on integration, which is going to be a major portion of the task in the next five years, so spending data from ETR shows some positive momentum relative to consensus, now remember, the Street works in a quarter, so they're on a quarterly shot clock, so if the Street says, "You're going to do this for earnings," and they do this, well, that means higher EPS, so the stock's going to go up. If you do this and you come in below, that means the stock's going to go down, so these are very tactical kinds of things. We're talking here about more longer terms, this could be a five to seven year integration challenge if not more, remember, it took Oracle 10 years plus in terms of integrating Fusion, so that's something that you need to keep an eye on, especially if you're a customer and you're getting pitched all these different services and cloud services, just got to think about the architecture for integration. Okay, this is Dave Vellante with CUBE Insights powered by ETR, thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (techno music)

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE! Covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019! Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin here with Keith Townsend, two days, wall-to-wall coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith and I have been geeking out for two full days now, and speaking of geeking out, I think its going to continue because Christian Reilly is here, back on theCUBE, the vice president and CTO of Citrix. Christian, welcome back! >> Thank you so much, it's been a while. >> It has! >> It really has. >> Well, we hope to make it fun. We have had, like I said, such great conversations with your executives, customers, analysts, everybody is so excited about this obvious pivot that Citrix is making towards the general user. You know, the power users being that 1 percent, and what you guys started off yesterday showing, resonates with everybody. I get it. I want my work day to be far more productive. I want apps and actions brought to me, so I can actually get down to the business of what I was hired to do. And we also are hearing over and over again, how employee experience is now elevated to a c-suite imperative, that is so critical because it directly affects the customer experience. >> Yeah, it's super exciting, isn't it? You know, it's great to watch it all come to life, because, you know, we've been working on this for a number of years behind the scenes and, you know, it's just so great to see all the effort that goes in come out on the big stage. And your right, I mean, we've been very calculated about the approach here. We do a lot of research in trying to understand these problems and these challenges. And, you know, quite frankly, customers are looking for more innovation from Citrix, looking for better ways to work, and, you know, I think we've got a very privileged position in being so important in customer application delivery over the decades that Citrix has been around. And so the, you know, the move, even though it seems like it's a quantum leap, is actually a really natural thing for us to go do, because we've won the trust over three decades of being, you know, the vendor to deliver mission critical apps so this is just an extension of that, but it's, yeah, it's super exciting. >> Yeah, so we've talked about that for the past couple of days. Citrix is a verb within IT. You know, "I'm going to Citrix into the application," or, "Is that on Citrix?" Or, "Is it Citrixed yet?" It is, we commonly understand what it means to be Citrix. But that's something that you guys have built over 30 years, and I think what's really interesting, Dana Gardner, we had him on earlier, he said Citrix is much too modest, there should be a Citrix inside for so many SaaS offerings, so that end-users in end-users understand that the foundational technology for this SaaS service, whether it's some payroll software, or some other third party healthcare solution, is being brought to you. The underlying application didn't have to be rewritten because of Citrix. I think we're at another foundational moment now. What you guys announced yesterday was foundational. I tweeted out as David was talking, saying, "You know what? Citrix is going to be the future of work." Like you know what? We'll follow doing automation. Citrix can't possibly be the- be the future of work. And he announced it, but, I want to try and get you- get this in one answer, hopefully, because it's big, you've been working on this for years, it shows, it's natural for Citrix to say that they're going to go to the next step of integrating different applications because you've been there already. What's the foundational technology? As, you know, when Frame back in 1995 was the foundational technology for virtual applications, what's the foundational capability that you're giving businesses today, that we're going to look back 20 years from now and say, "Obviously, that was the innovation"? >> Yeah, so that's a great question, I think there's a of couple things really, you know, We talked about it in the keynote extensively yesterday about the analytics piece. So, I wouldn't say that analytics is the only thing, but certainly when you think about the way we lined up the analytics conversation around security performance and then productivity. So that's the foundational element, and we're going to look back at that in a few years time and realize that we were very privileged to be in the path of user transactions, and the more you're in the path, the more transactions you get. The more transactions you get, the more source data you get. The more source data you get, the more you can feed the machine learning model, and the more accurate you can be about delivering the context of the workspace, so I think that's super important. The next bit, of course, would be the acquisition that we made of the Sapho technology back in November of 2018. And I think, you know, what you see there in the micros and the micro work flows, is really that big shift from the version 1 of the workspace, which was still very much about the traditional applications, traditional desktops, and then bringing together web and SaaS applications, but we sort of always knew that there was a bigger play, which was really to try and, as PJ talked about yesterday, how do we take work and break it down into atomic units? So we don't think about just the application, we think about the why. Why do people use applications? What is it that they do? And if you think about how that plays out with analytics, the more intelligence that we gather, the more intelligent we make the workspace. So I think with a couple of things, we'll look back at the Sapho acquisition as a key technology piece, but we'll look back at analytics as maybe the thing that helped to be the flywheel to deliver that intelligence within the workspace environment itself. >> And the power that that intelligence has to deliver a personalized experience to each user is huge. If we look at the consumerization and the expectations that we all bring to our business lives we want things to be smart enough to serve up just what I'm looking for. To make my life easier, so that the intelligence and the analytics has huge implications on being able to help companies use their applications better. If I'm having to go in and learn sales floors and try to talk glamor and all these things that as a marketer, I don't need to do, but if I could have technology that's under the covers- under the bonnet, is evaluating that and going to learn, "this is all that she needs to do for her role," how much happier am I going to be? How much more productive am I going to be? It's game-changing. >> Yeah, absolutely, and I think that the most important thing to remember about the whole of the the strategy around analytics, is it's constantly learning, so it's not like we just do it once. And if you think about where that goes along the term, you know, we're talking about, obviously, gathering user transaction data that I talked about. That will help us to generate the most valuable micro applications. But then if you think about that a little bit further on, you know, how do we actually then begin to get analytics on the micros themselves, and even begin to free up more productivity. So there's a continuum here that we see. You know, automation, as you mentioned, will be critical, you know, and if you think about what's happening and the industry in general. You know, robotic process information has skyrocketed to the game as organizations look to kind of do exactly what we're talking about, which is to free up the very scarce human capital to work on things that really matter, not on these mundane tasks. And you know, we talked to lots of customers about this, you know, the notion of how much application do you really use, and you know, it's been quite common, and one of the foundation- I guess foundational components that we talked about of why we did what we did was, we looked at enterprise applications that we were delivering through our traditional technologies, and they were really complex for some things that were really actually quite simple. And of course the Pareto thing holds true there that the 80% of people only want to get something out and 20% of people put something in. So that was obviously a key decision point for us to move ahead with, with the intelligent workspace, the micros that you saw. The other thing that's really interesting that we don't really talk about so much is that from a security perspective as well, being able to deliver just a part of the application actually minimizes the entire sort of attack surface, if you like. Whether that's for, you know, nefarious employees internally, or for true people who want to come in or sort of hack into your systems. The less that we can expose generally, then I think that's better overall. So there's actually some other upsides that we don't necessarily talk about in the context of intelligence, but when we talk to CIOs and we talk to the people in the business who really are interested in these technologies and these solutions, then we tend to expand the conversation a little bit into some things that we don't necessarily talk about all the time. >> Yeah, it's surprising how many questions you guys have answered for me today. I was at SAP, sapphire a couple weeks ago, and they were talking about X data, O data, X data being experienced data, and this is the output of digital transformation, and I was having a really tough time wrapping my head around the concept of X data. And I think this is hopefully something you could further along the discussion. When I think of just the access that Citrix has to this raw data, maybe the only other company that has more user data, or more access to user data, would be Microsoft via Windows. But Citrix presents SAP, which 80% of the world's transactions run through, is presented via Citrix a good majority of the time. Your CRM solutions and cloud-based options and sales forces presented again, through Citrix, so you're collecting a ton of data, as customers, you know, say, "okay, what's the account balance out of SAP, let me put it into this CRM solution and sales force". You're capturing that x data. How do you make sense of it? I think is the question, this is where the AI comes in. From a person looking at the process, and they come to Citrix and say, "Christian, you guys have the X data. Help us understand how that X data translates into business productivity. How do I personalize the experience for a individual use?" >> Yeah, absolutely, so I'll give you an example, you know, CTOs like to have a vision, right? So we'll talk a little about the vision. So I'll give you a relatively straight- forward example. So, we tend to see used cases around reviews and approvals and those kinds of things, whether it's expense reports or PTO requests, all the things that we've typically shown in the keynotes and the various demos that we've done as we've grown the solution. So here is what we kind of think about, so let's say, for example, that you have an employee. That employee submits expense reports on a fairly frequent basis and they tend to submit them for under $500. You may get to the point where you say, "actually, why do I keep approving these, because my level of trust with the employee is high, the dollar values of the individual reports is relatively low". So why would the system not just handle that and automatically approve them, until something was an anomaly. So if one came in that was $750, $1000, then I would get an alert. So I think when you talk about the X data, absolutely. The interaction with the X data is really where we see the value from the Citrix perspective, because we can learn how you actually deal with those notifications and those actions. So if there's an example of a micro application which gives you an expense report from let's say SAP Concur, and you never actually open it, you just click the approve button, then is there a real reason for you to continue to see the opportunity to open it? Because, you know, as I've said, the level of trust is high, the dollar value is low, and I could get productivity back that way, by actually looking at it from a sort of, "why should I actually approve this in the traditional way? I'll let the system take care of it until there's something that exceeds the threshold that I've learned that you're comfortable with". >> What- oh, sorry Keith, I was going to say, on that front though, where are enterprise companies in terms of letting that control go to the intelligence in the system? I mean how many times have we all submitted expense reports and maybe some of us like me go to Starbucks twice on the same day, hey, it happens, and you get rejection because it's the exact same dollar amount, and it's wasting all these cycles. But where is the appetite and maybe the trust from some of those larger organizations that culturally say somebody in procurement or finance has to click on every single funding and evaluate every single line item? >> Yeah, so I think the, sort of the beauty of what we've built here, certainly with what you saw yesterday and what we've been talking about at the show here. We're not actually changing any existing business rules or business work flow and gen components, right? So I think that's a really interesting point for us to bring up and to make sure that everybody understands, you know, right now, in the version that we're talking about for release later this year, you know, we're actually honoring most of the business rules and the work flows that are in the system of records. So that could be, you know, the HR system, the finance system, all the ERP system or whatever. So you know, I think when audit perspective, then we're good from that perspective, because you know, when we actually submit things back into the system of record from the micro apps, we're doing it on behalf of the user. So the transactions are still valid as if they were coming from the native experience. So I think that's great that we don't mess with any of that, because I think the higher, you know, we kind of make the hurdles for people to adopt by, and then, you know, whether it's cultural or whether it's regulatory, that obviously, you know, there's a downside to that. So, I think that's a good sort of first pass for us. I would suspect that as we go through this a little bit later though, there's going to be some potentially interesting questions that come up about, certainly of highly regulated environments about, you know, the legality of a robot, or digital assistant, or some kind of, you know, ancillary system being able to submit and do things on your behalf. So, you know, that's- this is not a GDPR thing by the way, or anything of that nature, it's more a, you know, if something was to happen in the system that wasn't intended, who's responsible? Is it the robot or is it the individual that's allowed the robot to work on their behalf? So I think there will be some interesting questions that come up along those lines, but I think, you know, in the v1 we're honoring the business rules, we're honoring the business logic and the work flow. And so, you know, I'm expecting that most customers will look at this and say, "yeah, I kind of get it," and you know, it's more valuable than it is a problem. That's certainly the goal. >> So let's talk about scale of this new foundational capability. Like I can easily see this working inside of your existing set of VDI products. You have visibility into the analytic data, but at some point, you're going to have enough data that the VDI isn't needed to create these work flows and these solutions. I can see this actually freeing up desktops for some employees where the only reason why they ever needed a desktop because they had to go on to Concur or the time management solution. If I do 40 hours every week for 52 weeks, I don't need to log into a portal to do that. How tied to your existing set of products is this capability? Is this something that, from a total addressable market that you- whether it's a mobile app or mobile first app that you guys can ingest this type of capability into? >> Yeah, so you know, as you know well, Kieth, we've been talking about the death of the PC in the industry for a decade, right? And it's- the reality is that most customers have an application portfolio that's heavily reliant on Windows. Now, having said that, there are obviously cases- and we look at sort of, some of the, what we call the customer jobs to be done, okay? Which is a Harvard business thing that came from Clayton Christianson. And it's a really interesting way of making sure that the innovations that we bring are actually addressing things that customers need to get done within their own environments. So if you take a used case, let's say it was a field technician. So you're going out, you're going to fix a faulty gas meter, or you're going to go out and perform some kind of maintenance work. It's highly likely that you're going to use a mobile device. And so, what we showed yesterday with the mobile version of the intelligent experience, what we show with the work space assistant, absolutely. I see used cases where we can give them instant productivity. So you know to pull and to push data into the systems of record, where the underlying operating system on the mobile device is kind of academic. But there will certainly be used cases where VDI or physical Windows desktops will be around for a very long time. So I think the value that we have is making sure that all those user transactions go through the workspace one way or another, so that helps us with the analytics piece. But I think I'll look a little bit further out, you know, again, we showed some demos of it yesterday, in one of the CTO breakout sessions that we had. The real ultimate goal is to think about the work space overall as more of an experience that will evolve. It's not necessarily an app, an app is one way to consume it, but we want to build a platform that can consume and be consumed by other things. So whether that's Microsoft teams that we showed yesterday, whether that becomes slack, Facebook for work, or whether it's an integrated voice assistant within, you know, an Apple device, or a Microsoft device, or a Google device, or a Samsung device. See, the value of that from a choice perspective is that we really then don't demand what the customers use, and ultimately their end use. So I think when we get a little bit further along in the thinking on the platform itself, it opens up endless possibilities to interact with the information you need. And it's not predicated upon any operating system because hopefully we can be ubiquitous. >> So, Citrix has over 400,000 customers worldwide. I think I read 98-99% of the Fortune 500, the Fortune 100, intelligence experience goes generally available later on this year, there's some customers in beta. What are you looking forward to as 2019 continues, coming off the high that is Citrix Synergy 2019? >> Well, you know, so like I said at the start here, I've been working on this thing with, frankly, the brilliant team we have here at Citrix for just about three years, so I wouldn't say it was quite stealth, but we've gone through these kind of programmatic changes internally. I'm looking for- I'm most looking forward to when customers understand the power of what we're going to give them with the builder. So the builder, again, is something we showed yesterday, but, you know, you think about the approach that we have is that we're going to, obviously, help customers to get productive and to get going with the intelligent experience by creating these out with the box micro apps and micro work flows for many of the most popular SaaS applications. The real big thing I'm looking forward to is when people can actually take the builder that we've developed and give it to their line of business people and say, "hey, you can create as many micro apps as you think are necessary within the constructs of your business process to enable your people". So that, to me, is kind of like, going to be the ultimate wow, when people say, "actually, I can give this to a person who is capable of creating a Pivot Table in Microsoft Excel," as an example. And they can then actually use the technologies that we provide to create the micros and micro work flows for their own part of the business without the help of traditional development. I think that's going to be huge and I can't wait until we've got, you know, the first examples of people who have said, "hey, you've made my life easier, I can't work without Citrix". >> While businesses can be built on that, the new Excel uh, Citrix builder, the new Excel. >> I hope so, I hope so. >> Well, we'll all be excited to- and be watching with close eyes. Christian, thank you for joining Kieth and me on theCUBE, but Synergy 2019! >> Thank you so much. >> Our pleasure. For Kieth Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching! (electronic music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering DockerCon 18. Brought to you by Docker and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of DockerCon 2018 in beautiful San Francisco. It's a stunning day here. We're at Moscone West, I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer. Very honored to welcome to theCUBE, for the first time, the CEO of Docker Inc., Steve Singh. Welcome, Steve. >> Hi Lisa, very nice to meet you. John, how are you? >> So the general session this morning, standing room only between five and six thousand people. I gotta say a couple things that jumped out at me. One, coolest stage entrance I've ever seen with this great, if you haven't seen it from the livestream, this, like, 3D Golden Gate Bridge and I loved that and I loved the demo of Docker Desktop that your kids did, fueled by Mountain Dew, which actually single handedly got me through college here in San Francisco. So, the momentum that you guys, it was kicking off with a bang. >> Yeah, I, look, I've got a great team and one of the things we wanted to communicate this morning is that you're seeing a massive transformation in the world of software. And this transformation is enabling every company in the world to think about their business in a new light. To think about how their business meets customer needs in a way that's much more personal, in a way that delivers more value. And this is the beauty of where Docker is, right, we have a chance to help literally every company in the world. And that's the part, honestly, that gets me excited, is, like, how do you help other people go create amazing businesses? And so this is, I couldn't be more happy to be at Docker. >> Steve, keying on that, one of the customers on stage today, McKesson. >> Yeah. >> And I loved Rashmi Kumar came out and talked about future-proofing for applications, their infrastructure, their applications in partnership with Docker. >> Yeah. And that implies a certain amount of trust that they have in Docker and Docker's technology platform and in partnering with you. You come from a, so you've been at Docker for about a year now, right? Came in as CEO. Docker is still a small company, a couple hundred folks but punching way above its weight with a huge community impact. How do you, and, you know, you've worked with the biggest companies in the world, how do you come in and establish that trust and help reassure them that you're gonna be a good partner for them and, kinda, what are you seeing with your customers? >> It's a great question, John, and look, there's maybe two or three pieces of how we think about that. The first thing, trust is very human, right? You've gotta know that you're walking into a situation as a vendor and as a customer but really as partners. And you're trying to solve a problem together. Because the reality is, this transformation that companies are going through is the first time in 40 years that this kind of transformation has happened. Second is, the technology stack is still in the early stages. Now, it's incredible and it enables amazing things, but it's still in the early stages. So both of us have to walk into the relationship knowing that, you know what, sometimes it won't go perfect, but guess what? We're gonna be, you know, if it doesn't go perfect we're gonna honor everything we ever committed to you and the same thing on the customer's side. They look at it and say, "I may have actually described my needs differently than what they actually are." And that's what a real partnership is. That's number one. Number two is, trust is driven by culture. And one of the things that I love about Docker is that we see our place in the world but we wanna make sure the customer always has choice. We wanna make sure that if we do a great job the customer will choose to work with us. If we don't, they should have the choice to go somewhere else. And that's what our platform enables, is the choice to be able to work with anybody you'd like to work with, whether you're the developer or you're an operator or you're an IT, I'm sorry, an architect, or the executive. The other piece around this is that part of the value of Docker is it's not just the 400 people of our company, right? There's 5,000 members of our community that are adding value to our community. One of the things that I wanna make sure we do for our community is help them not just innovate on this incredible platform but how do we help them take their innovations to market? And so that's part of the ethos of our company. >> One of the things that you talked about this morning that I thought was really compelling was, you said software innovation used to be, for the last 40 years, it's been driven by tech companies. That's changing. You talked about distributed innovation and distributed consumption. How is Docker helping to, culturally, I don't wanna say instill, but helping to influence, maybe, organizations to be able to distribute innovation and be able to share bi-directionally? >> Yeah, so, a great question, Lisa. So, first of all, is there's a cultural change within companies. When you think about the next generation or the next 40 years being, software being driven from non-technology companies. First of all, we're seeing that. Second is that it requires a cultural change within the business but that change is critical 'cause in the absence of becoming more of a software company your business is gonna be under threat, right? From the competing business. Look at what Netflix has done in media compared to every other media company. That same example applies in every single industry. Now, the way that we help enable that software transformation is to provide a platform that is so easy to use that it doesn't require a lot of training. Now this is complicated platforms, so, yes you have to be a fantastic developer or an IT professional but our job is to take complicated technology like container management software, orchestration layers like Swarm or Kubernetes, service mesh, storage networking, all of those, and make it so simple and easy to use that your IT department can say, "I can use this platform to effectively future-proof your company," right? So, how do you have a platform that you can build every application on, take all of you legacy applications on, run it, and then run it anywhere you like. >> I think that's been one of the through lines for Docker since the very beginning, that developer experience, right? >> Yes. >> And what's been interesting in Docker's development was, I think for both inside and outside, is kind of, what is Docker Inc, and the project versus the company, what is it selling, what's the commercial aspect here? I think, I kind of think back to my experience at BMWare, where there was an enterprise side and then a huge install base of workstation folks. And it's even stronger with Docker because actually now with Docker Desktop as an application development environment or a, you know, I don't wanna, not quite development environment but, you know, the one you announced today with Docker Desktop. That's an even more valuable through line into the Enterprise Edition. >> Yeah. >> But I don't, so, I guess where I'm heading, Steve, is, can you talk a little bit about the commercial situation? Docker EE as the flagship platform. >> Yeah, of course. >> And, kind of, where we are in the maturity journey with customers right now, it's real and important. >> Absolutely John, but you're bringing up a great point within this. Look, we're both, we're a enterprise software company and we're this incredible community where innovation is being brought in by every member of the community. And there's nothing in the world that says you can't do both. This idea that you're one company versus another, this is nonsense, alright? It's a very narrow view of the world. In fact, I would argue that, more and more, companies have to think about that they have multiple people that they serve. Multiple constituents that they serve. In our case we serve the Enterprise IT organization and we also serve developers. And developers are a critical part, not just of our community, that is the life of every company going forward. Which is why we're so excited about this. That's the life of every company. So, Docker Desktop, the reason we're so excited about it is, first of all, it is the easiest way to engage with Docker, to build applications. And then we feel like there's a lot more innovation that we can actually deliver within Docker Desktop. Alright, so a million new developers joined on Docker Desktop this year. In fact, we're growing about seven or eight percent month over month on that. And so you should expect over the next year another million will be on Docker Desktop. But it's incumbent upon us to say, the only way that we continue to earn the trust of that portion of our constituents, that of the developer community, is to make sure we're innovative, to make sure we're open to allow others to innovate on top of us. >> I'd love to, kind of, explore on audience a little bit. So, in terms of innovation, you know, we know that the companies that have the ability to aggressively innovate, and to do that they have to have the budget, are the ones that stay relevant and that are the most competitive. But I think I saw some stats and I think Scott Johnson said that close to 90 percent of IT budgets are spent keeping the lights on. So you have very little dollars to actually drive innovation. So when you're talking with customers, and you said you just met with 25 of Docker Inc's biggest customers just this morning, are you talking to both the developer guys and girls as well as the C suite? >> Yeah. >> What is, how are you connecting and then, maybe, is it a conversation to enable the developers to be able to sell the value up the stack or is it vice versa? >> A couple of things here, so, first of all, John, I didn't answer part of your question which is the growth in our Enterprise customer base. We've literally doubled it year over year, right? So, more than 500 Global 10,000 companies that are using Docker to run their applications and to manage their applications. The way that we engage with our customers is literally across the entire constituents of that organization, right? A developer by themselves, as genius as that group of people are, you can't deliver the application. And delivering the application is just as important as building it. And so the IT organization, the ops organization is critical. And then there's gotta be an overriding objective. What is it we're trying to do? How do we transform ourselves into a software company? You think about, think about just for example, Tesla, right? When you have a company, and I realize Tesla's stock goes up and down, they're always in the news, but when you have a company that's worth more than some of the biggest automotive companies in the world, you have to ask yourself why. Well, part of the reason why isn't just the fact that we've got an electric vehicle that's better for the environment. Part of it is, it's really as much a software company as it is a automotive company. They have incredible amounts of data about how we use our cars, where we go, and in fact the Tesla cars are actually interconnected. And so, that brings a perspective in how you build cars and how they're gonna be used and how they're gonna be consumed that's radically different than if you're just an auto manufacturer. Now, look, Ford and GM and Volvo are all really smart, great companies and they're quickly moving through to themselves being software companies. >> Steve, can you talk a little bit about ecosystems? Microsoft, on stage this morning, a long partnership with them but also here at the show, right, enterprise folks, Dell and Accenture and I'm just looking down the list as well as Google and Amazon, right? So, you need to be partnering with a lot of folks to make all this work. How are you approaching that? >> John, part of the reason for that is, let's start with a simple premise, is something this large, alright, you can't possibly innovate fast enough on your own, alright? There's seven billion amazing people on this planet. The only way you can really drive mass scale global innovation, is you have to be open, right? I'm literally a guy that was born in a mud house in India, so I certainly appreciate the opportunity to participate in the rest of the world's economy. So we have to be open to say, anybody that wants to contribute, can. Now, obviously we think that contribution has to be within an ethos, right? If your definition of contribution is how do you help your own business, that's not good enough. You have to look at this and say, there has to be choice, in our view, choice, security and agility. So, how do we deliver those values or that ethos to our customers? And if you're willing to do that, man we want to partner with everybody in this space. >> Yeah, I, sometimes I despair of the tech press, although I consume a lot of it and if I never have to read another Swarm versus Kubernetes article again I would be happy. But Kubernetes' all over the keynote and it seems like Docker you all have embraced it and in fact are supporting it in very innovative ways with the cloud providers. In terms of ecosystem can you talk a little bit about-- >> Yeah, well, part of the value of Docker is we simplify very complex things and make it available to our customers to consume with little training, little understanding of the underlying deep technology. And the other part is that it comes back to this idea that innovation will happen everywhere. Why should we view the world as it's our solution or, you know, nobody's? That's nonsense, right? Kubernetes is a fantastic orchestrational entity. Why shouldn't it be integrated into the Docker container platform? And so, as we did that, guess what happened? Our customers, all they saw was, instead of conflict they saw the opportunity to work together. In fact it's been amazing for the growth in our business, that's why ewe doubled year over year. >> Now, collaboration is essential and we were talking with Scott Johnson a little bit earlier today about the internal collaboration but also the external collaboration with customers. You talked about partnerships, I think that the MTA program, the Modernization of Traditional Apps launched about a year ago with Avanade, Cisco, HPE and Microsoft. Tell us a little bit about that, probably around the same time that you came to the helm. You're seeing, you know, customers like Visa, PayPal as part of this program, be able to transform and go to the container journey. >> Yeah, and Lisa, this speaks to an observation you made a few minutes ago about the fact that, you know, 85, 90% of IT budgets are fixed before you even walk into the year. So, look, the Docker platform can be used for any kind of application. Legacy apps, next generation apps that run in the data center, next generation apps that run on Edge devices. But if you accept that 90% of the apps that sit within a company are all legacy apps, well, guess what, that's where their cost is. And then if you marry that to the fact that every CIO has this problem that I don't have a lot of money that's free in my budget. Well, how do we help solve that? And the way we chose to solve it is this Docker MTA solution. Modernizing Traditional Apps. Take your traditional apps, run 'em on the Docker platform, run 'em on any infrastructure you like, cut your app and infrastructure management costs in half. Now, then take that savings and then apply it towards innovation. This is why it resonates with CIO's. I mean, as much as they may love Docker and they may love us, they have a business to serve and they're very, very practical in how they think about, you know, going about their business. >> So with that approach, thanks John, how receptive were those enterprise CIO's to going, "You're right, we've gotta start with our enterprise apps." They don't have the luxury of time, of ripping out old infrastructure and building them on containers or microservices architectures. And these are often mission-critical applications. Was that an easy sell, was that, tell me about that. >> (laughs) Well, nothing's easy but the reality is, is that it, they got it quickly, right? Because it speaks directly to their paying point. And what I'm very proud of with my team is not only were we able to deliver a great product for MTA but we're also helping our customers actually make sure they can migrate these apps over. But what's been really a positive, you know, kind of a signal we've seen, that's still the early stages, is that as our customers are moving their legacy apps to Docker and running 'em on new infrastructure, sometimes public cloud, and cutting costs, they're starting to take that cost savings and actually applying it to their next generation apps. So they're not using Docker for new apps. And so that is, that's the benefit of when you really try to solve the problem the way the customer wants to consume it. >> So, Steve, the user conference, very energizing, right. >> Yeah. >> Already the energy's been good here, you've been doing trainings and certifications, there's people behind us, everyone's talking, so that kind of in some ways sets the tone for the year, so as you and your team go back to the office after this week, you know, what are you looking to do and what can we expect out of Docker? >> I'll just speak to two things. First of all, there's so much innovation we still have to deliver. If anything, you know, I would say my team will tell me I might be pushing a little hard. But you know what, this is the fun, you only have x number of years in life and you should make the most of it. So we're really excited about new apps, we're excited about SecurEdge apps. We're excited about, I don't know if you saw the demo this morning, of Armada, which allows you to run any app on any operating system, on any infrastructure, all from a single pane of glass. Our customers love that and they're very excited about that. That said, you know, this is a, it's a big test. We have a huge opportunity to welcome a lot of other companies, so when you walk around and see 5,000 people that see amazing opportunity, not just for Docker, for themselves, right? That's the secret part of Docker that I love. We're creating jobs that didn't exist before, right? I mean, you see kids coming out of college now getting Docker skills and they're using that to grow their IT profession. In fact, I was just at i.c.stars, this is an amazing organization in Chicago that helps individuals who've been displaced in the workforce learn the IT skills required to come back to the workforce and really help run internal IT organizations. Guess what they're learning? They're learning Docker. So that's, these are the kind of things that get us excited. >> And that's essential for enterprise organizations who, that's one of the challenges they face, was, you know, modernizing the data center, which they have to do, but then it requires new skill sets, maybe upskilling, so it's exciting to hear that you're seeing this investment in people that have an opportunity, the proclivity to actually learn this technology. >> Yeah, this is, we are happy because we help customers but we also create amazing new jobs that, you know, are, certainly our community can still benefit from. >> So, last question, the three themes that came out of your session and really the general session this morning was, you talked about someone's choice, agility and security. Are those the three pillars that you believe Docker, upon which Docker sits as really competitive differentiators? >> Amen, amen, number one, but it's also our values, right? This is rooted in our values and when a company performs best is when their values show up in their products. Because then you're never lost, you'll always know what you're focused on. And you know, when I ran Concur, we had this vision, north star, called The Perfect Trip. And our objective was to always go create a delightful business trip experience. And for Docker I wanna make sure that we have a north star. And our north star is our values and they have to translate directly to what actually helps the customer. >> Love that, the north star. Well, hopefully theCUBE is the north star of modern tech media. Steve, thanks so much for stopping by. >> Thank you, it's wonderful to meet you. It was great to meet you as well and congratulations on the big success. >> Thank you. >> We look forward to hearing-- >> Thank you Lisa, thank you John. >> What's coming out in the next year. >> Thank you. >> And we wanna thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer today live from San Francisco DockerCon 2018. Stick around, we'll be back after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend. We are just wrapping up day two at SAP SAPPHIRE 2018. Keith, this event is enormous. We were just comparing our step goals. This event size is 16 American football fields. Enormous, 20,000 people. I think, combined, we have around 15,000 steps today. >> That sounds about right. >> Quite a few of them go to your longer legs than mine but this event is really been incredible, the energy that SAP's CEO Bill McDermott kicked off with yesterday morning has really been carried through this event and with our guests on the show for the last two days. >> No, we did 23, 24 interviews and every last one of them was high-energy. The guests were extremely excited about the products, the solutions, and the problems they're solving for, not just enterprise, but for society. I thought that was a really great theme of the guests today specifically. >> It's amazing, and you talk about, you know, the impact on society and SAP wants to be one of the top world's most valuable brands like Apple, Google, Coca Cola, who are all customers of SAP's and who all sell products that we can interact with, that we can taste, you know, Mercedes Benz, we can drive. They've got this invisible software product. They've been around for 46 years. And to your point, the stories that we have heard about how these invisible product, products, are transforming industries, are saving lives, was really something that I did not expect. >> Well when you make a great product that impact lives or... I compare it to making great content. theCUBE makes great content, that content would be found, people would take notice, you make a great product that impacts people's lives. It's no wonder that SAP is near the top of that brand recognition, brand value, 17th on the list. If they continue to do that, if they become the product, the ERP solution that you can talk to and you can ask a question, you know, not just business questions of what were the numbers the last quarter for Chicago, but you can ask a question, you know what, where is the best place to take my family to live in Eastern Europe during the summer months? That becomes value-add that people wouldn't be able to ignore. >> They've done a tremendous job building this partner ecosystem. There were hundreds of partner sessions alone. We've heard from a lot of their partners. We're in the NetApp booth, thanks to NetApp for having theCUBE here. NetApp is a customer and a partner of SAP and we heard a lot about how SAP is transforming to the cloud dramatically with the help of this massive partner ecosystem. >> You know what, we've had Microsoft, Fujitsu, SAP, NetApp, Nvidia, the list goes on and on of customers and partnerships of examples of companies that have come together and they've been consistent. In some areas, obviously Microsoft competes with SAP. In some areas, Microsoft competes with NetApp. But they recognize that without these alliances, without these partnerships, they can't solve these large, complex problems of ridding parts of Africa with mosquitoes. SAP can't do that by themselves. Microsoft can't do that by themselves. And this week was a great acknowledgement and a example of how the ecosystem works. >> They also talked a lot at this event about the intelligent enterprise where it's, you know, it's not just about digital transformation as table stakes. Companies that do it well have, or are working towards getting, this true 360-degree view of the customer which is essential. They talked about enabling that via certain things that they're leading in, or pioneering, which is connecting the demand chain and the supply chain. They really talked about enabling this new, this current SAP that's built for this fourth generation customer experience. Our lives as consumers have dramatically influenced business. We expect to have the ability to, you know, try and buy an app if we want it, right? And they're using that model very well to give customers in many industries, they have 390,000 customers, choice and flexibility. And the partner ecosystem is just part of that flexibility that they have to give. And they do a great job of listening to their customers who really are helping with a lot of the co-development in a very symbiotic way. >> Yeah, SAP is reentering this people-centric view of ERP, CRM, of data, saying that their relationship is about people. Bill McDermott spent a lot of time talking about trust. One of the reasons why people trust the brand of theCUBE is because we're on the ground, we're talking to the users, we're talking to the people. People can reach out and touch and feel you, there's a personal relationship between that brand and the community. The same thing with, got the same feel for what SAP is trying to do of, you know, obviously with over 20,000 people, I dunno if the number is 21,000, 22,000, but more than 20,000 people, a million people online watching the event, SAP the serious about this C/4HANA move, of being able to say, you know what, we are going to create a ecosystem of trust. We talked about trust with the app center and being able to validate applications on the platform. SAP has long been one of those companies that's serious about their partnerships and validation and certification of platforms. So whether it's HCI, storage with NetApp, the deep relationship with NetApp, SAP is going to put its brand upfront and say that if you're going to engage with one of our partnerships, there's a transient trust that goes from SAP to their partners. >> And we talked with a number of folks working in different groups within SAP focused on the customer. This morning we had on their Chief Customer, a guy from their Chief Customer Office who talked about these, kinda top 100 strategic accounts that they partner with who then also they take that information, those learnings and don't just improve the technologies but they also use them to influence much greater than a hundred customers. They're strategically utilizing that data. We talked yesterday with one of the gentlemen running the SAP four, S/4HANA community rather, and the Leonardo community and the amount of engagement that they have in that community, especially in Leonardo which has only been around for a year. The customer engagement is key but also their reaction to it, and I would say even, I think we heard a lot of how they're being proactive with creating content and enabling their customers to be able to learn at the same time as they're learning from their customers. >> Yeah some hero numbers that we heard this week: 6,000 people in that HANA, the S/4HANA community. While the Customer Success Group focuses on the top 100 customers, there were, I think 38,000 people following the Twitter account, so there's obviously outreached stretch. The Leonardo and S/4 communities have created a thousand videos on how-to. So obviously the impact of and the reach of SAP has ambitions of not just raising brand awareness and getting into that Top 10 with Apple and Google, they also have the ambitions of becoming a platform, a ecosystem. You know, we look at Microsoft as kinda one of the ultimate platform companies. Microsoft partners make more money off of Windows than Microsoft makes off of Windows. SAP seems to have the same goal of their partners, there's a hundred partners on the show floor, that should generate more revenue than SAP which would be impressive. SAP, I looked the other day, $136 billion market capital, not a small company at all. >> So you have an interesting perspective, for many reasons, but one you've run large SAP infrastructures before. And here you are now at SAPPHIRE from the press and media, the analyst perspective. What are some of the things that really surprised you in all of your experience as a user of SAP to now covering it from this angle. >> You know what, I don't know if it was a year ago. It was not even a full year, my anniversary for running my company is August. So less than a year ago I ran SAP for a large pharmaceutical. And we're in the throes of selecting where our next platform was gonna be hosted. Cloud was a possibility and it is amazing how the conversations have changed from my peers a year ago, or a year and a half or even a year ago, to now to how readily acceptable customers are of running mission-critical, the core of the business, 77% of the world's transactions, we heard today, goes through SAP, how willing customers are at running those work goals in the cloud. Second piece, which was probably a proof point, how much SAP has improved SAP in the cloud. SAP has marketed SAP HANA and SAP as cloud-ready applications, it was more of something that you... I took legacy application, I installed it on VMs in the cloud, cloud-ready. No we've given examples from the hyperscalers, specifically Google, of how, and Microsoft of how, customers are coming whipping their credit card up, spinning up instances of HANA, spinning them down. Google talked about how you can migrate your whole ECC on HANA to the cloud within 30 minutes to two hours, amazing movement in cloud. I think it's by far my biggest surprise coming to this show. I didn't expect SAP to accelerate their cloud adoption as fast as they have. >> I'm curious to your thoughts too about simplicity, simplicity of message, you know, what's their best-run businesses campaign? Best-run businesses run on SAP. Simplicity has long been part of their messaging. As we look at the SAP cloud platform and some of the announcements there today and you look at, they've got Ariba, and Concur, and Fieldglass, and SuccessFactors, with the C/4 announcement from yesterday, what is your impression on, have they been able to sort of simplify and kind of reduce customer confusion in terms of this breadth of products and technologies that SAP now delivers? >> You know, SAP is a big company and they have a lot of products. They've been around for 46 years. You know, we didn't talk about any legacy database stuff. They still own Siebel so they still own a traditional database company. It's easier said than done to simplify the message. When you come to... You know, we talked to interviewee after interviewee, customers are still overwhelmed when they look at a overall problem. They can even identify SAP as the potential partner to solve it, but 300 products is still 300 products. It's very... You can help simplify the message by throwing those products in categories, sales force, which product you lead with, so new customers, you know, sales force will help you with that. Traditional customers that don't have deep relationships with their sales force and solution providers, maybe, I think there's still a little difficulty around understanding the messaging around all of 300 products. I mean, it's 300 products. >> Well, there's always work to be done and well we have... There was a lot of product announcements, a lot of energy, and evangelicalism that you and I heard consistently throughout the event and on-set here. A third area that I think really struck me is, SAP has been very vocal about having an initiative to raise the profile of women in technology. They did an excellent job of getting women onstage during both keynote sessions, yesterday and today. From their CMO, Alicia Tillman, to Lindsey Vonn and a whole suite of women Olympic athletes that were yesterday in the general session, to some of the women that were doing some of these outstanding demos and I, I really tip my hat to SAP because for being as large and as lengthy of an incumbent as they are, they're really able to focus on some of these key areas and we at theCUBE love to cover that because it's something that really needs consistent awareness. >> Well, I dunno if people would notice but we probably, both of us, are very vested in diversity and Silicon Valley, in general, is always appreciated when companies go, not just acknowledge the challenge of diversity, it is a very, very difficult problem. It's probably one of the most difficult problems in our industry. So to actually put some meat on a bone, announce the problem, announce the challenge, and go forth and put, you know, obviously, extremely capable women and minorities in the forefront. >> Yeah. Well Keith, always a pleasure hosting with you. Thanks so much for working with me the last couple of days, it's been-- >> I always enjoy it. >> I do too. It's really been a really fun, energetic show so thanks for all of your help. >> Thank you. >> Keith and I wanna thank you for watching theCUBE. Lisa Martin for Keith Townsend, we're from SAP SAPPHIRE 2018. Thanks for watching. (energetic music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to the CUBE we are in Orlando, at SAP SAPPHIRE 2018, I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend as my co-host. We're in the NetApp booth, and we are very excited to talk to the VP of the Chief Customer Office at SAP, Mark Marcus, Mark, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, glad to be here I appreciate it. >> This event is enormous. One of the things that really struck me in Bill McDermott's key note was, you know, we always here about, oh we are expecting 20 thousand people, he talked about a million people engaging with SAP SAPPHIRE this week, via the in person, and the live, and the on demand video experiences. Massive! 390 thousand customers, hundreds of customer sessions the voice of the customer validating SAP as one of the world's most valuable brands is not only pervasive here its palpable. So talk to us about the Chief Customer Office. What is it, what's it's mission, why was it created? >> Yes, okay that's a great, a great way, so first of all thank you, I appreciate you being here, I live in Orlando so it's great to see this event in my-- People wonder why SAPPHIRE is actually in Orlando, it's because I live here. (all laughing) >> You're the reason! >> You're the reason. >> I'm the reason SAPPHIRE is in Orlando, Florida. >> Okay, you heard it, Mark Marcus, you're the reason. >> No, so what happened is, when Bill McDermott came to SAP, he was a different type of leader, and what he wanted to do immediately is start meeting with customers. So what he did is, he started meeting with customers, and he said if you have any questions or problems, give me a call. And so what happened is, his phone started ringing, people needed help, so he needed somebody that could help him with the customers when he ran North America. And so that was the genesis to Chief Customer Office. So we started off, first, we were extremely reactive. And so what I mean by that is, if the customer had a problem, we'd have to go in, and we'd have to help them. And it's much more difficult when you have a problem, then try to prevent a problem. So what we've been doin' the last several years, is trying to be much more proactive, so instead of waiting for the phone to ring, we've been getting with customers, and making sure, you know, as their project start, begin their steering committee meetings and make sure that things go well. >> So, you've taken that more proactive approach, it's almost how the organization's evolved. What is the focus today? >> Yes, well the focus has always been the customer, but I think it's more of, taking the best practices that we've learned, and actually sharing those with the customers, and helping them explain how other people have done their journey, because what you'll find, is people are in different phases of their journey, and what they like to hear more of is, you know, what did other customers do, what did they do right, what did they do wrong, and how can we be more successful? So we've been able to, over the years, if you think about, just to put it in perspective again, there are, SAP North America has 158 thousand customers, and we're only on, my particular team only has about a hundred of those customers, that we have. So it's a very, very small amount, they're are ones that, you know, are strategic to SAP, that we get involved in. But what we're able to do though, is, through social media and other areas is, customers wanna hear what happened, again, in the past, and how we can, you know, learn from that and move forward. >> So, I'm a big social media fan. Twitter handle has 38 thousand followers, which a lot for your focus on a hundred customers, so I think that, that you're echoing the, the theme very well. Talk to us about how it's changed over the past, 14 or so years, shift has focused from on-premises solutions to hybrid-cloud, to cloud analytics, AI, what's the, what are customers talking about? >> I'll tell you what, you're talkin' my language now, (Keith laughing) okay, because what happened is what we did is, actually what I'm in part, what I'm a part of is actually the cloud ambassador program. And so what that is, is it's focusing on our cloud customers so, you know, success factors, Ariba, Concur, and those kinda things, and so, really what happened, is, you know, when SAP, when I came to SAP 14 years ago, it was all on-premise ERP, alright? So it's very contained, very controlled with what people had now there's Cloud's, we're not really sure what customers are doing, how they're interacting with the solutions, and so what we have to do is we really focus, and again, my group is 100% focused in on that, so. What part of our mission has been is, we're not necessarily know what customers are doing, so we're helping to understand what they're doing, and trying to help educate groups inside SAP to be more responsive and help them. >> So you mentioned having responsibility for some strategic accounts, about a hundred. Do those represent kind of a subset of some of the key areas in which you're looking for the voice of the customer, and their practice using your technology to influence the direction of some of the key technologies? >> Yes, 'cause I'd say they're some of the biggest, most strategic customers that we have, and so what we do a lot of is, we're able to, we align directly with the executives, at the customer, so one of things with Chief Customer Office, is we're aligned at the C level, so it's, the CIO, the CEO, the CFO, at that level, so we're able to say we heard directly from the leaders of the companies, our most important customers, key customers, and we're able to take that back the other areas of SAP, and say, this is the what the leadership's demanding, and that's what we're able to help them with. >> So, as we're going through this phase of digital transformation, through a lot of organizations, that audience is even more important than, what?! (chuckles) Tell me how, as digital transformation has become, more than just a buzzword but a imperative from the C-suite, from CEOs to CIOs, CMOs, CDO, all the C's, CXO! How has the conversation between those groups changed, from the SAP perspective? >> Yeah, I'll tell ya, that is, again, I'm not just sayin' that you are, you're hitting exactly what we focus in on because, traditionally SAP has been focused more on the CIO level, so it's more the IT groups of implemented ERP, it's been more of a back-office type solution, well now, what we're finding is the line of businesses are the people that are actually making the decisions. So what we're finding out is that, it's not necessarily so much that the, technically, how they work, it's more the business processes they have, and how we can help actually, basically automate, and help them run more smoothly. >> Yeah, Hasso Plattner actually, and some of the guys this morning during the keynote talked about that, in terms of, customers were saying, you know, I'm getting kind of confused, there's so many different product names, a lot of acquisitions, he was talking about that, we heard from customers that there was confusion there. So when he was talking about, in the context of C4 for example of, making things simpler to understand, but also to your point, the back office and the front office now has to be connected so they also talked about that, in terms of, the integration with SAP Cloud, and how they really focused on enabling wholistic integration because it's the processes that have to now communicate together, so that, a whole, kind of proactive, customer responsiveness, that was really apparent this morning. 46 years young SAP, you have a new initiative about the customer for life, tell us about that. >> Okay, so customer for life is a new initiative that we have, so what I told you, at the Chief Customer Office we've done, we're able to touch very few customers, but, you know, again, you know we have 156 thousand, in SAP North America, you know, multiply that all over the world, I mean, it's many customers, okay. So what we've tried to do, is take what we've done on a small scale in the Chief Customer Office, and make that pervasive throughout the whole company. And so what we're really good at too is actually, you know, understanding what the customers do, finding them a solution, but now what we wanna do is go through the whole life-cycle of what we do so, I mentioned, you know, having a customer executive assigned to every customer. Being able to be part of the steering committees that we have, and being able to follow them through so we can help guide them, so it's not only selling the solutions but actually helping them through all the way, so the new initiative we set is customer for life, it's something that we're rolling out right now, and we've had, and again, it's taking what we did in the Chief Customer Office and, you know, propagating that through the rest of SAP. >> So, this facility, you like to say it, 16 football fields, American football fields, so that's a big facility. I walked the facility this morning, got in about three thousand steps. Hundred plus partners on the floor, ranging from system integrators, technology partners, and infrastructure space, software SIs. Help us understand as SAP, 20 thousand plus people here at the show, a million people online engaging on SAPPHIRE, SAP is becoming a platform company. How has that changed your role, your conversations? >> Well, I think what has happened a lot is, especially in the cloud projects, again I'm gonna focus more on what I'm a part of is, you know, there's a lot of new partners that come up. Because what happened is that, you know, we acquired several companies, we did, you know Concur, Ariba, SuccessFactors, a lot of big companies, and a lot of different partners. So really what our role is, in the Chief Customer Office is, to basically, to help these partners to understand how to work together, and we do a lot of things in meetings, we have, what we do, is, it's usually like the three legged stool, it is, you know, it's SAP, the partner, and the customer together, and we all do that together. And what I've found is, some of the problems that we've had is not neces-- you know, I always say like, how can take the exact same solution, and it works well in one company, and it doesn't work in another company? And what it is, to your point, with all the partners here, is it's communication, are they working together, you know, is the partner, and SAP, and the customer all working together, and so that's what I'm really focused on today is meeting with all the, you know, do the SAPPHIREs, to meet with the partners, to make sure we're aligned, you know, talk about our key customers, and make sure that we're all working together. >> We talked to one of the gentleman yesterday who was running some of the communities around HANA and Leonardo and, just the massive amount of content that is being generated to enable and educate customers across 25 plus industries, was massive, as well as, leveraging that peer validation from customers, like you're saying, you know, some customers in certain industries have a ton of success with the same thing that others customers struggle, depending on a lot of different variables. So that sort of collaboration and communication, even within the SAP communities alone, was very apparent yesterday that that's one of the big drivers, of I'm sure, the customer for life initiative is, as you have evolved, so have your customers. One thing that struck me yesterday was, you know, looking at, you're now number 17 of the World's top most valuable brands up there with Apple, you know, products that we can engage with and, I saw on a bus yesterday some of the messaging, and ERP you can talk to, and hear from. (Keith laughing) So SAP really set a very lofty ambition of being up there with the Amazons, and the Coca-Colas, and the Googles, and now you have technology that people can, you know, like at home with their digital assistant, talk to and communicate with. I thought that was very powerful message. >> And I'd say that's, I'd say too that, you know, I've worked with SAP for 14 years, and when I came to SAP, nobody had really heard of SAP and what they were, they thought maybe, you know, sometimes on TV when you see SAP when it's translated in other languages or something, that's what they think of SAP, they don't really know what the company is but, yeah, it's been great to see how, you know, people would stop you, you know, whether you're wearin', you know, they'll see somethin' on your laptop, on your shirts or somethin' like that, yeah so it's been good. I think that's been a big focus of getting it out because, one thing is is we have 150 million cloud users, that's a lot of people, so a lot of people use SAP, so. Again, one of the cloud products that we have is called Concur, it's for expense and reporting, and so a lot of times people might not've heard of SAP, but they've heard of Concur, because they all do their expenses, that kinda stuff. So, exactly right, it is pretty good, you know, when you have even family members know who SAP is now. They've done a great job, you know, hiring, you know, with the market department and the people they've hired, it's been great, it's been good. >> So, okay, we talked a little bit about analytics and the customer experience as we're looking at intelligent business. Is that a message that's actually resonating with customers in that top 100 strategic accounts, are they using analytics to actually power business, What are some of the data analysis success stories? >> Yeah, I would say that, what I would say is that, what I've found a lot of times is that, you know, people can get the information in, but they need to be able to get the information out. And so, everybody across that has done it, so, I would just say almost every customer we have has basically needed to get that out, and do reporting and those kinda things, you know? So, part of what we do at the Chief Customer Office is, you know, not only, you know, help them with the reports that they have, but to be able to run that kinda stuff. >> You guys also have, you know, some really interesting use-cases, I'm a Formula One fan, I've worked with Formula One before, I'm, I understand it from a fan perspective. You guys are really involved in McLaren Motorsport, for example, from finance, to procurement, to manufacturing. How are you seeing some of these really big use-cases like Formula One, or Coca-Cola, infuse into some of the, you know, the mid-sized businesses, who, you say, might be using Concur for example. What is some of the value that a small company can get from the massive users? >> Yeah, well I'd say there's a lot of things, because what happens is that from those big massive customers that we have, we're able to put together as we call model company. And so what a model company is, is it takes the best practices you have and puts it into more of a, I'd say nothings out-of-the-box, but makes it much more easier to implement, to be able to do it, so what we're able to do is, you know, with the massive amounts of info like McLaren, I think Hasso mentioned what, there's 400 sensors that they're getting on their cars, and that kind of stuff. So basically being able to take all the information that we have, and then from that, distill it down into where it's a very, repeatable type instance we can use for other customers. So there's a lot, I mean that's what we do with a lot of the, what the customers have, we try to get that back to where other people can use it. >> A Formula One car is basically an IOT device. You said 400 sensors, generating a ton of data, per race weekend, times three days, times 20 events a year. I read from Gartner just the other day that by 2020, which is around the corner, there's expected to be 20 billion IOT devices. What are you hearing from your customer base regarding IOT and being able to synchronize this, you know, modern next-gen data center with myriad devices? >> Yeah, so that is one of our top initiatives that we have right now. Because, one of the things that we've done is, we have an offering that we have called Leonardo, and what Leonardo is, it was named after the inventor Leonardo da Vinci, alright? So, you know, in his time he was, you know, a great innovator, actually went and saw his house and went over to Europe, and I've done a lot with Leonardo, you know what I'm sayin'? To be able to do that, right? But what that is, is that's basically all about, you know, getting devices to be able to get that information in. Because what you do is, you have you know, thousands of sensors and stuff like that and a good, you asked me earlier about a good success story on that, is one of the ones that I think resonates the most on that is in Buenos Aires, they have a massive problem with rain, you know, it rains a lot, and they have severe flooding, and the architecture is antiquated. But what they've found, is the reason that they were having these flooding problems, is because the sewers and the drains were all getting clogged up. So what they did was, they put a sensor in every one of the drains to be able to make sure that they were unclogged and they were flowing freely. So what they did is, they were able to, if the water flow started going down they were able to empty out the drains, even with an antiquated sewer system, because they were keeping it aligned with, you know, using Leonardo now, they can go and keep it cleaned out, they've had massive rains and the flooding hasn't really been there where it is, so now, what's interesting is every time I go by and see a gutter that's all clogged up, I think, you know, they need Leonardo to be able to help! >> I was reading as well about Alicia Tillman, your CMO, who's been at the helm for about nine months now and, in the context of this desire to become one of the top global brands with an invisible product, she said, you know, that one of the most important things for SAP right now is brand narrative, messages and campaigns will change quarterly or, every six months as they should but, she said, you know, to be able to show the value of basically under-the-hood software, you've gotta be able to show how it transforms countries, lives, industries, and that's one of the things that I think is very, very palpable here at the event is how much impact SAP is making in, whether it's rhino conservation in Africa or, you know, helping water scarcity in India, the impact, which is really the most, the biggest validation that you get, right from the voice of your customers is massive. >> Yeah, and I'd say to that, you know I like to say that, you know, it sounds like, you know, yes we're a software company, and, you know, that kinda stuff, but, it is really a noble endeavor, because we are doing a lot of things to help people's lives, and to run their businesses better, and what you realize is that, Chief Customer Office sometimes we see that other side when the systems aren't running properly at times, you know, they're usually runnin' right, but sometimes they have problems, and when they do, you can just see the impact you have on, you know, people's lives and businesses and stuff like that, that it is really running, you know, it is core to what you have, you know. So I'll tell you one of the interesting things that SAP's involved in is, they do a lot with instant messaging, so they have a part of, one of the acquisitions we have does instant messaging, well, you don't think about that but like, when you use, let's say, Facebook Messenger, or something like that, those messages go inside an SAP infrastructure at times, right? So imagine, you know, if you can't change messages, or doin' those kinda things, you know, so. You're exactly right, it definitely does, what we're doing does really impact a lot of peoples lives, so it's important. >> Well mark, thanks so much for taking some time to stop by theCUBE and chat with us about what SAP is doing with customers, how they're really symbiotically working together with you to evolve and transform this company. >> I wanna say one other thing too, it's great to work with two professionals here, you guys have really helped me a lot. >> Aww! >> I don't do this a lot, but it really made me feel comfortable, so you, I appreciate your help, thank you. >> Our pleasure, thanks so much! And, so you're the reason SAPPHIRE's in Orlando, are you also the reason they got Justin Timberlake tomorrow night?! (Mark laughing) >> I would like that. But I would like to say real quick, one thing before we cut real quick, I would like to say one thing just about the NetApp partnership we have. So RJ Bibby is the person that I work with at NetApp, and, just what he's done to basically, because NetApp really helps run a lot of our infrastructure inside SAP, so it's success factors, some of the high-availability in things that we have, and just working with RJ, and kinda learning how we, how we work and can help other customers, they've really volunteered to help a lot of our customers, and so, I just wanna thank NetApp again for helping us sponsor this. >> Great, great closing. We wanna thank NetApp for having theCUBE in their booth. Lisa Martin, with Keith Townsend, we are at SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018, thanks for watching! (bubbly music)

>> From Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. Welcome to theCUBE, we are on the ground in the NetApp booth at SAP SAPPHIRE 2018. I'm Lisa Martin, I'm hanging out with Keith Townsend. Today we are joined by RJ Bibby, who is the SAP Global Alliance Chief of Staff at NetApp. RJ, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, we're so glad you guys are here. >> So, this, is a huge event. There are, I've heard 20,000 attendees live, but they were saying at the keynote this morning, Bill McDermott was, over a million people are expected to engage with the SAP experience both in person and online, that's enormous, enormous. SAP and NetApp have been partners for 17 plus years now. Right, you've got thousands of customers that run SAP on NetApp. What's current with the partnership? What's going on there from your perspective? >> Well thanks Lisa, thanks Keith. But first off I want to thank you all for being here. We're ecstatic for having theCUBE in our booth. We haven't been back here as a sponsor in a couple years. So being a platinum sponsor, 40 people here on the ground from all over the world. Like you said, we're about 26,000 people this week. So, really busy, we're in our 18th year. This year, as a partnership with SAP. To answer that question, it's really exciting. We have a very unique partnership with SAP. It's a true 360 partnership, and what I mean by that. One, we co-innovate together. So we're doing co-innovation where NetApp on SAP on NetApp. What that mean is basically a lot of the SAP products, like hybris, like Ariba, SuccessFactors are built on NetApp. We're doing co-innovation on blockchain, on HANA, IOT. So, we're really looking at that next phase of automation in data management. And we'll get into data management in a bit. We're both customers to each other. We just had our CIO met with a customer success office this morning to talk about some of the integrations of products that we're doing. Second year in a row SAP has been our largest customer. So the growth on that end is great, and then lastly the GODA market, and that's really what I really do from the alliance side. So, heavily around HANA acceleration. How we constantly are helping our customers move to HANA with our NetApp data fabric and ONTAP, our core signature products that deploy SAP. And we're very focused on industry, very focused on a global to local partner for life. We both have really warm, loyal customers. And then there's a kind of G100 strategic approach too. So that's the partnership, it's been a lot of fun. And we're gonna see where it goes in 2018. >> So RJ, talk to us a little bit more. Add some color on this relationship between Netapp and SAP in the market. NetApp, data driven company. SAP, probably the premier data analysis, analytics. We saw on stage from customer experience all the way to backend. You can't do that without a solid, robust infrastructure that's focused on SAP. What are some of the key technologies and strategy that NetApp and SAP have teamed together, bring together such successes? >> No, great question Keith. Really it goes down to the core of data. So NetApp has done a transformation the last two years, where we're gonna be now the data management company for hybrid cloud. So in that core, customers are looking to do a bunch of different things with NetApp. We want to manage, transport, analyze and protect data. A lot of data on SAP. So they're modernizing their data centers, how do we move to the hybrid cloud? With our ONTAP product, which is really a software capability, really turning into a software company in the cloud, as is SAP. So the core products of HANA, SuccessFactors, Ariba, Field Glass, Concur, all the things from an operations standpoint that's been automated for their business is kind of built on NetApp. Is built on NetApp, a lot of them. So our approach to the customer is how do we help the experience? And, we're doing that transformation internally, so we're going through it with SAP. There's lessons there. SAP did this and moved to a kind of cloud company a couple years ago on NetApp. Those are some of the core instances, but there's a modernizing a data center approach, there's a hybrid cloud. But it still just comes down to, oh my God, data runs my business. I'm really scared about it from protection. There's too much of it. How do I monetize? What are the analytics behind it? And that's what NetApp is really on the forefront of doing. Our CIO talked about this, this week. He's going to talk about it this week, about choice. What we're hearing for customers is, I need choice. I need to move my data around on PRAM, into whatever hybrid hyperscaler environment you want fast, efficient, with analytics read outs. So that's kind of the approach we're starting to take to market. I find it to be a very consultative of approach where it's Mister Customer, SAP NetApp, whoever your hybrid cloud choice is, who your SI is, the other technology partners are. We're all together collectively, almost like a innovation program for a customer approach. And that's kind of, not my secret, but one of my secrets of how we're going to market with the sales teams. >> I'm curious, NetApp is 26 years old. 26 years young maybe. I worked there I was telling you, for a few years as well. On marketing, which was awesome. Lot of evolution from a storage perspective. You say NetApp runs a SAP, SAP runs a NetApp as well. Talk to us about this maybe SAP as an influencer of the evolution of NetApp from storage company to now as you said, data authority for hybrid cloud. >> Yeah, no great question. I think it started where we wanted, we saw that software was kind of taking over. The automation, right? So it's almost like storage is a service. In my four years at NetApp, we never approach SAP as a partner or the customer talking about storage or infrastructure per se. Kind of around this data management methodology a while back. I think SAP has been an influencer internally fpr us in a couple regards. One they have the state of the art, a lot of the software operations. Things that we needed to run the business. There's been some kinks, there's some things that we probably need to customize that fit our business. NetApp's really unique, we're about 6 billion dollars, with 10,000 employees, with three business units. And we're a very unique company. The culture is awesome, we're empowered. Salespeople on the ground are empowered. Me helping run the alliance, we can be very strategic on how and what we want to do. Hey, we want to have CUBE at SAPPHIRE, absolutely do it, as an example. So, with that empowerment, we've been able to look at the best of breed in tools. And I think the tools are helping us from looking at the business and really how the customer experience. I'll give you one example on that. We're listening to our customers and how they want to transform their data, in their data on SAP. Well, I need to also be able to look at the analytics internally on okay, does my customer need a technical refresh? What are they doing on SAP? Is it SAP on Oracle? What products do they have of NetApp? Do our salespeople properly enabled on selling SAP on Cloud? Are they talking to their counterparts at the account from SAP, from a CISCO or Fujitsu, AWS, and then whatever SI. So there's a lot of complexity, there's an art and a science to it. And it's in our transformation in SAP from the tools perspectives at the core of that. >> RJ let's talk about the alliance beyond just the SAP to NetApp. This is really complex, I mean even with the tools, you know, ONTAP on the cloud, ONTAP in your data center. ONTAP kind of in the fog later, wherever you want to say that's at. That normalizes the data, it kind of validates the NetApp as the data driven company. However, when you go to an enterprise and you say that, you know what, this thing that used to live at my data center is now spread across these three different environments. It's really hard to figure out. How do SIs play a role into shaping the strategy in this alliance? Yeah, that's a whole other layer right? The complexity, 'cause I find, I came from the SI side of the house. I worked at Accenture for a really long time prior to my career in the partnership side. You know, I think they're very good from a consultative approach of hey, how do we want to design this thing? How do we want to implement it? How do we want to run it? And where does everybody's silo of stuff or technologies fall into that? I think the art part of it is hey, as NetApp or with MRSI, hey man, how do we help design with you? How do we consult the end to end approach here? I think we're the expert from an end to end data management approach. So there's some butting of heads at times depending on which SI, because they do. They have these long standing executive partnerships. There's a lot of investment from SIs at the account. I was just at a leadership conference with Accenture. And they're spending three billion dollars on three different things around automation. One, training. They can't get people, it's still about people in process. How do we get the process and tools in place? Where do we need to go merger and acquisition on the latest products? And how do we implement with that ecosystem? So I always think it's a work in progress. It's gone well, I think that's something I'd like to see us improve on. I think the SAP to NetApp partnership is advanced. In a lot of regards to that. It's like anything, it's also like when you look at salespeople internally at NetApp with our transformation. How do you get people out of the conference zone talking to their infrastructure lead, their line of business lead. And elevate to the cloud conversation. Going to the CXO, I think the Chief Security Offer is the key executive now in our sales process. Because of data protection. And that's something that we do well, and that's something they own, and I'm always trying to be creative. There might lots of dollars to protect data. How do we turn that into a whole strategy conversation with all the partners? >> So let's go a little deeper on NetApp's value propositions. You know what? Infrastructure is infrastructure, why should it matter? How do you guys differentiate between your competitors and running S4 HANA, the cloud strategy, you know what, end memory databases, storage is no longer needed, that's not true, but what's the story? >> Good question. The story for us is the ONTAP product that we have, the software because what we can do is deploy SAP really fast. Really fast, just some stats. You can get 45% project timeline savings with our deployment of SAP. The secret sauce in that is, the tools of the replication in the snapshot. When you're doing constant development ongoing maintenance, we can do snapshots in real time. That is the key thing that keeps the production going live faster. >> You know, because CICD is not something that we do, I've managed SAP for a long time. And CICD wasn't exactly a concept in SAP. So we rely on the infrastructure a lot to do. So snapshots is an amazing example of how you bring the CICD approach to something that is stayed as SAP. You can't just shut down SAP for the weekend to apply a update five times a year. >> Correct, so hours and hours of down time, where we can do it in three hours. A lot of times it's real time. I was just at a HANA Conference in Vegas and we got a lot of one on one time with customers. It was awesome, and that was the biggest things they said they need more of NetApp. And the differentiator is we're continue to expand our approach to managing the data, and I need the replication and the cloning specifically to run the production value end to end. So that's the other part of it. It's really just doing that end to end landscape management of SAP and Non-SAP workloads. The one thing that's great about the cloud part of this is you do need a lot of storage, and it's software based storage. So I think the approach in NetApp is going in the right direction. I've been working with SAP as a partner now for 12 years. I think that this is probably the best momentum I've had with SAP ever. And one of the reasons why is one, data is the story, right? What does Bill McDermott always say? Data is now the currency. Well today he was saying now trust is the currency, which is completely true too. But from the data being the currency perspective, it's now the end game for both of us. So we've kind of, in all companies, have gone into the middle. That's kind of not only the messaging, but kind of the central thing we're trying to deliver value on. And the choice, I want to keep saying the fact that customers now want choice on where they put their data. That's the thing that we're really promoting here at SAPPHIRE this week. >> Last question RJ. >> Last? All day! >> I know, I know right? Speaking of choice, you mentioned customers want choice. They do want choice. You talked about value, delivering value. From a competitive perspective, customers have choice. They've got other storage vendors they can work with. Give us your best elevator pitch. What makes NetApp and SAP different and better than say, some of those, maybe orange colored competitors? >> Sure, no, no, it's a great question. The biggest differentiator is just the fact that we are the one company out there that can provide data management in any hybrid environment. AWS, a hyperscaler, Microsoft, Google, we're doing cloud volumes just announced a Google Cloud platform. You know, we're one of the premier technology from HANA and Azure. So I think number one it's that. Secondly, we can deploy SAP really quickly, which consumes licenses. So one, the customer really likes that. Two, SAP sales loves it 'cause then it gives them a chance to go back to the customer. And then just the end to end data management that we can provide our customers value. I would say choice one. >> Awesome, well I said a few minutes ago to Keith that Bill McDermott is probably the most energetic C level that I've ever seen. Your energy level RJ, right there with his. >> You know why? 'Cause it's go time, it's SAPPHIRE day one. >> The stage might have exploded if we had them both at the same time. >> That would've been fun. >> Pyrotechnics on day one! Well RJ thank you so much, not only for visiting with Keith and me this morning. But also of having theCube in the NetApp booth at SAPPHIRE. >> We love it, we can't wait. Thanks everybody. >> I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend at theCUBE on the ground at SAPPHIRE NOW day one. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back here on theCUBE, of course, the flagship broadcast for SilconANGLE, along with Justin Warren, I am John Walls, and we are live at re:Invent, AWS' annual shin-dig here in Las Vegas, and certainly with great success, they have staged this year's event. We'll have more on that a little bit later on, right now we're joined by Bill Mann, who's the Chief Product Officer at Centrify, the latest newcomer to the AWS marketplace. >> Yes. >> John: Bill good to see you, thanks for the time today. >> Thanks for the time as well. >> Big week for you, right? >> Yup >> Joining the marketplace, tell us about the driver of that decision, and then what you're bringing, literally, to the marketplace? >> Sure, sure. Well, we're bringing our products to the marketplace. We're very excited about getting our products on the marketplace, and what was really the driver for us was, we wanted to really be part of the Amazon ecosystem, and we wanted to make, reduce the friction of selling to enterprise and mid-market customers, and this was the way to get to those customers. We realized really early on that, customers are already buying all the other services from Amazon already. They're buying their instances. They're buying their storage, and so forth. So, getting our products on the marketplace was just an important aspect of reaching those customers and removing the friction, and so forth. Also, with the move to the cloud, our customers were asking for how to secure servers in the cloud, and secure access to applications in the cloud, and then things just kind of lead, one thing leads to another, where you say, okay, let's put everything in one place as well. I kind of used the analogy of we buy our diapers from Amazon, now, and everything else, so, but the IT shop is working the same way. They don't want to deal with multiple vendors, and if you can reduce that friction, at least, my theory is, reducing that friction will mean, we can sell more product to the customer. >> That's an interesting image, diapers from... (laughter) >> It's the everything store. >> I didn't give a chance to talk about Centrify, a little bit. Security firm with the tag "The breach stops here", so, just tell for those at home who might not be familiar with Centrify, a little bit more about your specific offers. >> Sure, well, let's start with the breech stops here, the reason we have our tagline, "the breech stops here" is, it really is a definition of what's happening in the marketplace. If you look at most of the breaches out there, there's 80% of most breaches are to do with compromised credentials, our passwords, and that is really an area that we focus on. We are really trying to solve the problem, how users have access to the applications, like Sales Force, or any home grown applications, or how IT users have access to their servers, like a server on AWS, and using a password, and having too much privileges, is really the wrong way to do things, so we are solving that problem, and that's why we kinda start off with that line of the breach stops here, because we fundamentally believe that if you implement security based upon identity you're gonna be able to reduce your risk. >> Security is such a hot market right at the moment. We're hearing constantly, we were talking earlier on theCUBE, where we're talking IOT, and it immediately went to security. It was being really, really top of mind for people, so the things that you're doing with Centrify, there's kind of two prongs to it, if I understand it. So, one is identity management. So, knowing who people are. So that credentials management. And the other one's to do with the access, is that right? We were talking before we went to air that, about the Beyond Corp concept, where instead of having this, sort of inside protected crunchy layer, and then everything outside is bad, now it's just becoming everything everywhere should not be trusted, unless you are cleared by something like Centrify. >> So, yes, so, for those of you who are familiar with the Beyond Corp model, the model really is about zero trust. So, if you think of these two things here in our user, let's say a server instance, the thing in between you can't trust, and in the past we've been trusting the firewall to stop the bad guys from coming into our network. So really the concept is around, assume the bad actors are everywhere, and now that you've assumed that, let's now focus on what you can do to actually gain security. So the concepts are, let's do identity assurance. Let's make sure this is really Bill. Let's do, let's make sure Bill's coming from a trusted device, yeah, like a known mobile phone that hasn't been jailbroken, has the right configuration policies, et cetera. Then, let's do access control, or what we call, lease privilege, to the asset that they're trying to have access to. So, is Bill coming from this show, from his phone, allowed to access SalesForce.com? Or is Bill coming from this phone able login to a Unix instance on AWS, now? And what can he do on that instance? Can he go to root, and restart the Oracle database, or can he just run some lower level privilege commands? So, that's the scope of what we're doing. In fact, Beyond Corp is a great descriptor of what we do, if a company wants to implement Beyond Corp, that security paradigm, which I think a lot of modern companies are thinking that way, you can use the services that we provide on the Amazon Marketplace to implement that. We have a service called Application Service, which is all about securing your applications. We have a service called Endpoints Service, which is securing the endpoints, like the mobile phones and so forth, and we have a service called Infrastructure Service, which is securing instances in the cloud. Access to those instances, and those, all those services can be used together, as well, because, as you know I'm an IT user. One day, I'm using Outlook to read my email, and in the next second I'm logging onto a Unix instance. So, for me, it's bringing all these components together, and that's providing throughout by the marketplace. >> Yeah, and really, providing that security in context, as you mentioned. It could be the same person. Like, I'm at work, and I'm doing some things, and I've got access to all these great, all of this information inside the company, but when I go home, should I still have access to that? Probably not. So, if I'm sitting home and I'm using my device, as many of us do, I have children, and they sometimes put games on your phone, or load stuff on your computer. So, if I've got my work computer at home with me, and I suddenly start deciding, hmm I think I'll login and download all of the sales information, that shouldn't happen. >> That's absolutely right. So, the context is that core part of it, and that's what endpoint services does for us. So going back to an Amazon use case, if I'm at home, and I'm logging on to my Amazon console, yeah? From my home machine, let's say, and I'm kicking off an instance, should I be able to do that? I'm not using, maybe an endpoint that is authorized, but I could authorize an endpoint and say, this is a known endpoint, like a lot of IT workers do. And you could also do things like, I'm in Vegas now, and I'm using my Mac, and I'm trying to go to the Amazon console, should I be able to, because that's outside of my normal behavior, in which case, we would up-level your multi-factor authentication, it would re-prompt me to re-authenticate. So, all of that is built into our environment. So, our services are not just for Amazon. It's for on-premises, and for cloud apps, cause it's the whole gamut of what an enterprise has. As companies are moving, or migrating from one premises to the cloud, we can protect the applications, and servers on premises, as well as servers in cloud, and applications on premises, as well as SAAS apps, like Sales Force, or Concur, et cetera, et cetera. So, it's that gamut of giving a user access to applications and infrastructure that we're doing with this Beyond Corp model in mind. Which is, I think the cool, and the interesting thing about what we're doing, because we are connecting these components together, and that's the only way we're going to raise security, cause if you go back to the stat I gave you earlier about the 80%, that is the problem, right? A firewall will not protect you from these breaches, and we could have an argument about it, but if it was, then we wouldn't see the breaches, right? That's kind of the high-level. >> John: Yeah >> There's only so much that you as, like Amazon can do so much about securing their environment, but ultimately you as the customer need to spend a bunch of time, and -- >> Just like they did, share responsibility, right? >> Absolutely right. I mean, Amazon does an awesome job in defining the shared responsibility model, and we are relying on them to do their part of the responsibility, and we're proving the technology for the customers to worry about their aspect, right? So, Amazon does not worry about Bill coming from this device, having access to an instance, we're worrying about those things. So, absolutely, we're part of the shared responsibility model for Amazon. >> We're not going to worry about Bill coming in either. I think you're okay. I think it'll be alright. How do you guys, in the big picture, put on your bad guy hat? How do you look for, if you offer a product, this is our latest security offering, now let's go look for holes? Now let's, I mean, you're trying to beat it up all the time, right? You're always, you're looking for vulnerabilities? So, how do you switch gears like that, and go to the other side of the fence to think about what the next problem is going to be, or what the next vulnerability is going to be? >> Well, you know, I think we, like most other security, modern security companies, we are thinking, one side of our brain is thinking like the bad guys all the time. We have to, and, and honestly, they are always multiple steps ahead of us, and one of the things I like to really make sure customers understand is, some customers get really wound up about zero risk, right? They want it to be perfect before they implement a solution, and really the reality is, most companies don't even have multi-factor authentication for implemented for all of their employees, and if companies just implemented multi-factor authentication for all their users, for all their access, you would have a significant reduction in risk. So, the types of security we're focused on, is not about reducing risk to zero, or finding every single vulnerability out there. It's really trying to attack the problem that hasn't been attacked already. Let me give you another analogy. As we all know patching is a basic security model that we all need to know. Yeah, but how many vulnerabilities have there been in the news where patching was not done? We're like patching. You know, understanding the user is authenticating an environment without a password, and instead using multi-factor authentication, is the best precaution against the bad guys. It won't limitate risk, right, but its going to drastically reduce it. Now, as part of the services we're offering on Amazon, we have multi-factor authentication as a service, right? By definition, as it's a service means it can be implemented extremely fast for enterprise. It's a SAAS Service, right? It's pay by use, right? By definition. So, gone are the days where the technology was the reason you couldn't implement these sets of capabilities, cause they're easy to procure, they're in the cloud, they're mobile friendly, they're modern, et cetera, et cetera. So that's how we really deal with the aspect of the bad guys, right? They're going to be there all the time, but honestly speaking companies have spent so much time, and energy, and dollars on the wrong security products, right? Or focusing on the wrong stuff, and it was fine when you had a legacy, closed environment with no cloud, and no SAAS, but that's not the environment anybody lives in, especially a show like this. Everybody's using the cloud, it's like, the obvious thing, right? So, it should be obvious that these kind of controls need to be implemented. >> I agree. Just do the simple things. If you can do one or two simple things, multi-factor, absolutely. Just do these basic things. You will eliminate 80% of your risk. Do that first, then worry about the esoteric problems that are going to cost millions and millions of dollars to solve, just, you know, brush your teeth. Go for a walk. (John laughing) >> We define a maturity model of going towards Beyond Corp's slash zero trust, and the first thing on that maturity chart is identity assurance, i.e. multifactor authentication, and that's the first thing that organizations need to implement, and the issue is companies haven't implemented these products in the past, because they've been too expensive on-premise, hard to implement, not mobile friendly. So we're hoping once we're on Amazon's marketplace with the reach we've got with Amazon, we're going to see a lot of customers adopting those. So, it's good for us as a business, but ultimately it's good for enterprises. They're going to get safer, and our data is gonna be safeguarded, and so forth, which is the primary responsibility. >> I'm not sure. I think Justin just told you to take some time off. (laughing) I'm not sure. Bill, thanks for being with us. >> [Bill} Thank you very much. >> Thanks for the time, and congratulations on joining the marketplace, and we wish you continued success at Centrify. >> Cheers. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Bill Mann, Chief Product Officer at Centrify. Back with more here, Live at AWS. We're at re:Invent. Live at Las Vegas. Back with more on theCUBE, just in a bit. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMWorld 2017, brought to you by VMWare and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to VMWorld 2017 everybody. This is theCube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm with my co-host, Peter Burris. Bob Wambach is here. He's the Vice President of Marketing for Converged Platforms and Solutions at Dell EMC. Bob, good to see you again. >> Good to see you, guys. Always a pleasure. >> It's been a good week, you guys have had a lot going on. We were at the Influencer reception last night. Great shindig, thank you for that. >> Peter: Very much. >> Lot of momentum in this ecosystem: VMWAre, financials are looking good. We just had Pat Gelsinger on, he has a spring in his step. What's going on from your perspective? >> You know I see the spring in Pat's step, and I look at it and, you know I know the stock's up, everything's going great for them, but what I really see is the plan they've put in place, right? And this is a long time coming. If you remember last year you remember Pat was talking about, it's a multi-cloud world, right? And everything VMWare has been doing for the last couple of years has been leading up to some of these announcements that you're seeing now. So I see a guy who's really happy because, made some big bets, had a plan, and the bets are paying off. And most of the benefit is actually going to be in the future. And as you see, Michael's looking pretty happy too this week, right? (laughter) So I think if you heard Pat in the opening keynote, one of the things that struck me is he said we're going from data centers to center of data. And it's really recognizing that there's this explosion of data going on and this data has to be handled in different fashion, and that's a cloud operating model. It's not a cloud. the cloud's an operating model not a place, and it's a multi-cloud world out there. So, you look at most large companies, maybe they have Concur, they have ADP, they have Salesforce.com. There's multiple SaaS providers that they have and then they use on premise equipment, they want to cloud-ify that, right? Is how do I get to, I've got my own journey to cloud. Our job is to really help them both on their journey for on premise equipment, but then working with VMWare, working with Pivotal, is making easy to utilize and navigate the multi-cloud world as well. >> So, we've been talking all week, Peter is really sort of driving our research at Wikibon, helping us think through the customer implications and one of the things we've been talking all week is the reality of that data and not being able to move that data into the cloud, bringing that cloud operating model, as you were just pointing out to the data. But, the implication there, as you've talked about many times Peter, is you've got to have the simplicity and other attributes of the cloud in order to make that brand promise come true, what we call true private cloud. So, what are you guys doing in that regard to achieve that vision? >> First, it's listening. Michael Dell likes to say, and it's very frequently that he says, we have big ears to us. Our job is to really listen to customers, understand their business. You need to understand their business and then once you understand your business, you better know how to help them. And, there's also preferences. They've got capex versus opex preferences. They're going to make decisions of on premises versus off premises based upon data gravity, based upon governance, based upon SLA's, latency. All these things that have to do with the characteristics of the data; data movement. And, then you have a, there's actually a preference for, I want to build it myself. Or, I'm actually very focused on my business and I'd like to be nearly out of the IT business. So, we look at this, everybody's a builder, you're a builder at some level. If you are a builder down at the component level, where you want to pick your servers, you're going to pick vSAN. Then we have our Ready portfolio. vSAN Ready Nodes covers that, right? So, it's the easiest way to buy vSAN in a PowerEdge server. And, if you start going up the stack and you want that packaged with software, we have Ready bundles. And then we start moving into where people are realizing I don't add a lot of value to the business by putting together pieces of hardware and software. So, I want to rely on Dell EMC to do some of that for us. That's where our VxRail, VxRack, VxBlock comes in. Where we own the engineering, manufacturing, management, support, sustaining of that. All the life cycle assurance, single contact support. That's from us. Then there's customers further up that say, well I want a stack, a software stack. We increasingly see that the world's evolving into, sometimes people refer to it as stack wars. And VmWare is doing exceptionally well in the stack wars. They're very prevalent in on premise and now they also have the integrations with the Googles, with AWS, with IBM Cloud. Our announcement this week about the Ready system is taking Dell EMC's expertise in hyper-converged infrastructure, which we co-engineered, co-developed with VMWare, and VMWare taking the lead on how do you package up vSphere, NSX and vSAN together with it and vRealize. They control the roadmap for that, they know how to do the lifecycle automation updates, so what we do is we provide the hyper-converged infrastructure and it's actually a simple overall environment for customers when they combine these. When Michael talks about peanut butter and chocolate a couple of times, and that's really what I think about the Ready systems. There's VMWare, we have for Pivotal, we'll also have Pivotal Ready system that can give you either a Pivotal Cloud Foundry, the easiest way to get a Pivotal Cloud Foundry environment on our hyper-converged infrastructure, or the Pivotal Container Services, PKS on hyper-converged infrastructure. >> So Bob, you mentioned early on of having different overview of the portfolio, you mentioned early on that VMWare had a plan, and they've been executing about that plan. But, you also got a plan within the hyper-converged team, within the whole enterprise cloud team. So, software and hardware are once again co-mingled in ways that they haven't been for a long time. The kind of normal separation, just get the hardware and then you get the software. But, now we're seeing that because of the complexities of trying to bring all this together, talk a little bit about how you're influencing the VMWare plan and the VMWare plan is influencing the hardware side of things. >> You know it's a great question. I think there's been a great learning experience. As you know for several years, we've had Enterprise Hybrid Cloud. Enterprise Hybrid Cloud started with a request from customers to make it easier to create a full cloud. People were realizing, I've been trying to build my cloud. It's super hard. I actually don't want to spend my best people and my time and money on this. So, Enterprise Hybrid Cloud initially started working with some very large enterprises. And, it was a way to take any type of converged or hyper-converged infrastructure and bring the whole VMWare portfolio to market with full turn key system. Full stop, it's we own it, we will make this stuff work. So, the goodness there is that the customers would get something that was incredibly rich, and remember this, a lot of this started out on converged infrastructure, so you basing it on a SAN fabric, VMAX, All-Flash, XtremeIO data domain. So you have all the flexibility and option of the data services, rich data services and data protection. Now it turns out Enterprise Hybrid Cloud is really really hard, right? We don't have magic software to do this. There's hundreds of people that are making all this stuff work so that when it goes into these large enterprises it adapts to their environment and it's very reliable, robust, scalable, flexible. The other side of the coin is, it takes so long to test and QA the new VMWare, perfectly fine, very solid VMWare features, that they don't show up to market for a long time. The largest enterprises understand this, but for many customers, you end up having this misalignment, where VMWare's saying, "I want you to take these features now", and we're saying, "That's six months away in Enterprise Hybrid Cloud." So, what you've seen develop in the Ready systems are perfect example of this is if we constrain down for most people, most people are not the largest banks in the world, there's not the largest pharmas or governments. Hyper-converged infrastructure is ready for the vast majority of work loads today and they need a pretty well defined set of features and functionality. So, VMWare more takes the lead, on this is how we're going to package these up. This is our software suite. We know how to do life cycle. Together, you work on the hyper-converged infrastructure, which is also co-developed with them. And, it ends up being a very good path to get these into the hands of many more customers. We're talking 10x customers, if you think about hundreds of people that are likely EHC, Enterprise Hybrid Cloud candidates, versus many thousands that are VMWare Ready system candidates. So, I think it's a great example of how we work together to figure out what is the sweet spot for volume and velocity of being able to provide value very quickly to the largest number of customers. >> So, we Chad on theCube yesterday and we asked, Dave and I asked him a series of questions, and one of them was, so tell us about how the cloud experience is going to manifest itself through Dell EMC products. One of the things he said was, in anticipation of these cloud wars, or in these platform wars, I think was his term, that increasingly it is going to be about how well you bind between different clouds. Interesting, I was walking through the show earlier and I saw one of our big user clients and I stopped and said hi to him. And, the two things that he mentioned when I asked him what he's looking for is, one, he used the same word, bind, how well does this bind to that, tell me about how your platform is going to bind to other platforms. And, automation was the second one. He said, I want to see, increasingly we're going to bring new technology in based on its demonstrable automated characteristics. What do you think about that, as you think about building platforms and how the portfolio is going to evolve against those two dimensions. The ability to bind things better and the ability to automate things more. >> Right, so, I think it's spot on, first of all. And, if we look at two different use cases. The one use case of most customers today, VMWare customers, they're using the VMWare suite, environment on premises. VMWare actually now binds those to AWS, to IBM Cloud, to Google Cloud. And, for me the killer app is NSX, right? If you think about, you want to traverse, navigate these different clouds. You want to do it securely, protected, segmentation and all of the richness of security and control over that. NSX is really the way to do that. When we talk about automation, VMWare is the best company to take the lead in how to automate that binding it together. So, whereas in the past, with Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, we, and that continues to go on, we did all the automation, there's a much more efficient path for most customers with VMWare doing that. And, Enterprise Hybrid Cloud still remains the realm of, I'm going to say, hundreds of customers where these are huge deals. These are $50 Million and up deals. Where you're providing incredible value all in, for all their different applications, right? And, most, you know the vast majority of customers today clearly not on hyper-converged infrastructure, but they could be and if the value prop is so compelling, it's so compelling that it's definitely, that's where things are going. So, we look at where things are going and try to optimize for that. Pivotal Cloud Foundry is also something that, in my view, binds the developer environment together. You develop it once and then you can publish this wherever you want. So there is a strategy within Dell Technologies companies to work together to do this and the more we work together, another great thing happens, is that your field teams end up being aligned and telling the same story. So, whereas with Enterprise Hybrid Cloud we would have inherit conflict. Because we'd be speaking about the virtues of Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, but VMWare is telling them you need these new features, right? And this is where, when that little friction goes away and you have full alignment, so we're all on the same page, we're all the saying the same things, it's far more credible. >> Well, it also accelerates the customer. >> Bob: It sure does. >> And, I think that's probably one of the most important things. At the end of the day, it's to get the customers going. >> Yeah, we got to wrap, but somebody said the other day that VMWare is moving at the speed of the CIO. Robin Matlock today said today, yeah, but the CIO has to move faster, but it's hard. So, you're right, you're trying to accelerate that. And, to I guess my last point is when you were talking about, we've been talking about, forming the cloud model to your business, when you were describing sort of what you do for Enterprise Hybrid Cloud, that's not a trivial exercise. It requires a lot of expertise and a lot of process, and a lot of good thinking. >> Right, and it is very, it's by definition, customizable. You end up doing something different for every customer. Whereas, Ready, the Ready solutions portfolio I think are going to be huge. Just huge in the coming year. And the whole idea is to make it easy. It's ready for wherever you are on this journey. If you are ready for more of a, I want to jump into cloud and I see this path, I'm ready to move, then it's Ready Systems, right? If you are more of a, I want to put the software elements together myself and build that, then we have Ready bundles. And, high performance computing has been huge for us. Data analytics, increasingly I think those are connected together. So, there's synergy between the two of them. Then, the Ready nodes, for people who are, I really want to build this stuff myself, this is the path that I'm going down. And it takes all of the, we have an opinion, right? Our opinion is we want you moving quickly because we see the customers benefiting from it. Ultimately, all our customers are trying to be very competitive and successful at whatever their mission is, and we know the further up the stack you go, we can help you be more competitive. But, it takes the conflict out of the relationship when they know that I can help you wherever you are, we have something that is right for you. >> Alright, we got to wrap. Thanks Bob for coming on. Taking you on a journey of Vmworld 2017. Bob Wambach, thanks for coming back in theCube. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome. Keep right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCube. We're live from VMworld 2017. Be right back. (exciting music)

(lively music) >> Announcer: It's the CUBE, covering SAPPHIRE NOW 2017, brought to you by SAP cloud platform and HANA Enterprise Cloud. >> Welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with the CUBE with our ongoing coverage of SAP SAPPHIRE 2017 down in Orlando. Really exciting day today, day two, 'cause we got to see Hasso Plattner. Got up and gave his keynote. Joined by George Gilbert. George, great to see you. I know you've known Hasso for years and years and years. Impressions of the kfeynote. God, there is so much stuff that we can dig into. I'm looking forward to it. >> Hasso almost never disappoints, 'cause he's just got %a richness of history and of vision that goes all the way back to the beginning. He was probably the technical visionary from the very beginning. He was the guy who took them from the first super integrated mainframe ERP package all the way to the client server age with R3, and now beyond into sort of in-memory, cloud ready, and with machine learning and iOT baked in. >> But he really speaks like a developer. You can really tell that he likes the technology, he understands the technology, he's kind of a no-BS guy. Some of the Q&A afterwards, people were trying to trip him up and challenge him on stuff. And he would either say, "I don't know," or, "I don't believe that," or, "Here's our impression." Really you could tell he's a humble guy, smart guy, and really has a grasp of what the heck is going on here. Let's jump into it. So many themes we could talk about. But the one that started out early in the conversation was, he literally said, "We need to get as quickly "to the cloud as possible." This is coming from a guy who built the company based on on prem ERP heavy lifting. And even he said today, 2017, "We need to get to the cloud as quickly as possible." >> I think there are a few things going on behind there, when you unpack it. One is, they did start building for the cloud in the early 2000's. It was meant to be a product for the mid-market. In fact, actually its first objective wasn't to be cloud-ready. The first objective was to be highly configurable so that you could bend it to the needs of many customers without customizing it, because typically with the customizations, it made it very difficult to upgrade. In making it configurable first and cloud-read second, they kind of accomplished neither. But they learned a lot. So they started on this next version, which was, okay, we're going to take an in-memory database which we're building from the ground up, 'cause Oracle wasn't building it at the time, and then we're going to build SAP ERP from scratch on top of this new database, 'cause database was so high performance that they didn't have to sepyarate analytics from transactions the way traditionally you do, you had to do in all applications. So they could simplify the app. Then, in simplifying it, they could make it easier to run in the cloud. And now, just like Oracle, just like Microsoft, they now build cloud first and on-prem second, because by building it cloud first, it sort of simplifies the assumptions that you have to make. >> Right, and he talked quite a bit about so much effort now is around integration connectors, to get stuff in and out of this thing. And that's a big focus, he said. It's not that we're ignoring it, it's just a big, hard, hairy problem that we're attacking. >> Yeah, and this is interesting and there's a lot of history behind this. Oracle, in the 90s, up until about the late 90s, their greatest success was in their industry-specific applications, where they took different modules from different vendors and stitched them together. That was how they built, like, a special solution for a consumer package goods company. But it turned out that that wasn't really workable because the different modules for the different vendors6 upgraded at different rates. So there was no way coherently to integrate them and tie them together. And SAP had said that all along. They were, like, this wasn't going to work. Fast forward to the last five-plus years, SAP started buying products from a bunch of different vendors, Ariba, SuccessFactors, Concur, Hybris. So you're, like, "Aren't they doing the same thing "Oracle did 10 year, 15 years before?" But no, and this is what Hasso was talking about today, which was, once those apps are in the cloud, you only have to build the integration points once. It's not like when it's on every customer's data center, you have to build integrations that work for every version that every customer has. So I think that's what he was talking about. You put it all in the cloud, you integrate it once. >> Another thing that he talked, he really, he spoke in tweets. (mumbles) goes to buy Twitter feed, I was basically, like, bang, bang, bang as he was talking. He talked about databases, and databases in the cloud. Nobody cares, right? It's a classic theme we hear over and over. "We presume it works. "We just want it to work." You know, it should just work. Nobody really cares what the underlying database is. >> But he was, in those cases, referring to these purchased apps, Concur, SuccessFactors, Ariba, Hybris. He was, like, "Some of them work on SQLServer, "some of 'em work on Oracle. "But you know what? "Until we get around to upgrading them to HANA, "it doesn't matter because you, the customer, "don't know that." If they were on prem and you had to support all those different databases, it might be a different story. But he's, like, "We'd rather give you the functionality "that's baked into them now "and get around to upgrading the databases later." >> Another thing that came up, and he actually reference the conversation with Michael Dell from yesterday's keynote, about the evolution of compute horsepower. You know, you had CPUs and CPUs kind of topped out. Then you had multicore CPUs. Now we have GPUs that he said you can put 10s or 100s of 1,000s on the board at one time. Basically he's smart guy, he's down the road a few steps from delivering today's product, saying that, you know, we're basically living in a era of unlimited free compute and kind of asymptotically approaching. But that's where we are. And how does that really change the way that we look now at new application development. I thought that was a pretty interesting thing. >> And sort of big advances in software architecture come from when you have a big change in the relative cost of compute memory, network storage. So as you were saying, cost of compute is approaching zero. But the same time, the cost of memory relative to storage is coming way down. So not only do you have these really beefy clusters with lots of compute, but you also have lots of memory. He was talking about something like putting 16 terabytes of memory in a server and putting 64 servers in a cluster, and all of a sudden, I can't do that math, being that I was a humanities major, but all of a sudden, you're talking about huge databases where you can crunch through this stuff very, very fast because it's all, you have lots of processors running in parallel and you have lots of memory. >> It's pretty interesting. He made an interesting statement. He used a sailor reference. He said, "You know, we are through the big waves "and now we're in the smooth water," and really saying that all this heavy lifting and now that this cloud architecture is here and we have this phenomenal compute and store technology, that he can kind of take a breath and really refresh a look out into the future as to, how do we build modern apps that have intelligence with basically unlimited resources, and how does that change the way that we go forward? I thought that was an interesting point of view, especially 'cause he has been at it for decades. >> You know, I think he was probably looking back to some of the arrows he had in his back from having done an in-memory database essentially before anyone else did for mission critical apps. I think when he's saying we're out of the choppy water and into the smooth water, because we now have the hardware that lets us run essentially these very resource-intensive databases and the apps on 'em, so that we no longer have to worry, are we overtaxing the infrastructure? Is it too expensive to outfit the hardware for a customer? So his, when he talks about rethinking the apps, he, like, "We don't have to have separate analytical systems "from the transaction systems. "And not only that. "We can simplify because we don't have to have" what he's calling aggregates. In other words, we don't have to, we don't, let's say, take an order and all the line items in an order, and then pre-aggregate all the orders. It's, like, we do that on the fly. And that simplifies things a lot. Then, not only that. Because we have all this memory, we can do, like, machine learning very inexpensively. >> A whole another chapter in his keynote was about modern software design. A lot of really interesting things, especially in the context of SAP, which was a big, monolithic application, hard to learn, hard to understand, hard to manage. I remember a start, that were were (mumbles) using is a core V to C commerce engine. And to add 16 colors of shirts times 10 neck sizes and 10 sleeve sizes was just a nightmare. You're not going to have some merchant that works at Macy's to put that into the system. But he talked about intelligent design, which is pretty interesting. We're hearing that more and more in a lot of work done over at Stanford, intelligent design. He's talking about no manuals. He's, like, "If I can't figure it out, "I need to understand." He talked about intelligent applications that continue to learn as the applications get more data. And specifically, the fact that machines don't get bored testing 100s or 1,000s or even millions of scenarios and grinding through those things to get the intelligence to start to learn about what's going on. So a very different kind of an application, both development, delivery approach, than what we think of historically as R3. >> Yeah, like the design thinking was, they have this new UI called Fiori. I mean, if you go back 10, 15 years, let's say, when they started, 15 years, when they started trying to put browser-based user interfaces on what was a client server system, they had 10s and 10s of 1,000s of forms-based screens. They had to convert them one by one to work in a browser. I think what he's saying now is, they can mock up these prototypes in a simple tool and they can essentially recreate the UI. It's not going to be the exact same forms, but they can recreate the UI to the entire system so that it's much more accessible. On the machine learning front, he was talking about one example was, like, matching up invoices that you going to have to pay. So that you going to train the system with all these invoices. It learns how to essentially do the OCR, recognize the text. And it gets smarter to the point where it can do 95% of it without-- >> Human interaction. >> Yeah, human inter-. >> You know, it's interesting, we were at Service Now last week, as well. And they are using AI to do relatively mundane tasks that people don't want to do, that machines are good at, things like categorization and assignment and things that are relatively straightforward processes but very time-consuming and again, if you can get to a 70% solution, 80% solution, 90% solution, to free people up to do other things on the stuff that's relatively routine. Right, if the invoice matches the anticipated bill in the system, pay it. Does somebody really have to look at it? So I thought that was really interesting. Something I want to dig in with you, he talked a lot about data, where the data lives, data gravity. He even said that he fought against data warehousing in the 90s and lost. A lot of real passionate conversation about where is data and how should apps interact with data, and he's really against this data replication and a data lake and moving this stuff all around, but having it kind of central. Want to just get your thoughts on that history. What do you think he means now, and where's that going? >> It's a great question. There's a lot of history behind that. Not everyone would remember, but there was an article in Fortune Magazine in the late 90s, where it described him getting up in a small conference of software CEOs, enterprise software CEOs, and he said basically, "We're going to grind you into dust, "because everything comes in our system integrated. "And if you leave it up to the customer "to try and stitch all this stuff together, "it's going to be a nightmare." And that was back when everyone was thinking, "One company can't do it all." And the reality was, that was the point in time where we really had given go past go, collect $200, to every best-of-breed little software vendor. It did prove out over the next decade that the fewer integration points there were, that it meant much lower cost of ownership for the customer. Not only lower cost of ownership, but better business process integration, 'cause you had the (mumbles) integration. I bring this up because, well, actually, I was there when he said it. (laughs) But I bring it up because he's essentially saying the same thing now, which is, "We'll put all the machine learning technology, "the building blocks, in SAP. "If you need any contextual data, "bring it into our system. "You don't want to take our data out "and put it into all these other machine learning programs "'cause there's security issues, "there's, again, the breakdown "in the business process integration." He did acknowledge that with data warehouses, if you have 100s of other sources, yes, you may need a external data warehouse. But I think that he's going to find with machine learning the greatest value with the data that you use in machine learning is when you're always adding richer and richer contextual data. That contextual data means you're getting it from other sources. I don't think he's going to win this battle in terms of keeping most of it within SAP. >> It kind of bring up this other intersection that he talked about. In now delivering SAP as a cloud application, he said, "Now we have to learn how to run our application, "not our customers," a very different way of looking at the world. The other thing that piggybacks off of what you just said is, we've seen this trend towards configuration, not customization. It used to be probably, back in the days, if you had the big SI's, they loved customization, 'cause it's a huge project, multi-years. I used to talk to one of our center partners, like, "How do you manage a multi-year SAP project "when most the people that started it "probably aren't even there the day you finish it?" But he had a specific quote I wanted to call out now, what you just said, is that he said, "Only our customers have the data, "the desire, and the domain knowledge "to make the most out of it." So it's a really interesting recognition that yes, you want customers to have this configuration option. But we keep hearing more and more, it's config, not-- >> Both: Customization. >> For upgrades and all these other things, which now when you go to a cloud-based application, that becomes significant. You don't want customizations, 'cause that's just complicates everything. >> You can't. I don't know if he said this today. I guess he must have said it today. But basically, when you're in the cloud, I forgot the terminology for the different instances. But when you're in, like, the SAP cloud, you can only configure. There's essentially a set of greater constraints on you. When you go to the other end of the spectrum, let's say you run it in your own data center, you can customize it. But when you're running it, essentially sharing the infrastructure, you're constrained. You're much more constrained. And they build it for that environment first. >> Right. But at the same time, they've got the data. Again, this has come up with other SAS companies that we've talked to, is hopefully, their out of the box business process covers 90% of the basics. I think there's been a realization on the business analyst side that we think we're special, but really most of the time, order to cash is order to cash. So if you got to tweak your own internal process to match best-of-breed, do it. You're much better off than trying to shape that computing system to fill your little corner cases. >> It's funny that you mention that, because what happened in the 90s was that by far the biggest influencers in the purchase decision and the overall lifecycle of the app were the big system integrators. They could typically collect $10 in implementation and change management fees for every dollar of license that went to the software vendors. So they had a huge incentive to tell the customer, "Well, you really should customize this "around your particular needs," because they made all the money off that. >> Right, right. Another huge theme. Again, it was such a great keynote. We watch a lot of keynotes, and I have a very high bar for what I consider a great keynote. This was a great keynote by a smart guy who knows his stuff and got history. But another theme was just really about AI. He talked a little bit, which I thought was great. Nobody talks about the fact that airplanes have been flying themselves for a very long time. So it is coming. I think he even said, maybe this is the age of AI. But there always have to be some humans involved. It's not a complete hand-over of control. But it is coming, and it's coming very, very quickly. >> I actually thought that they were a little further behind than might expected, considering that it's been years now that people in software have seen this coming. But they have in the dozens of applications or functions right now that are machine learning enabled. But if you look out at their roadmap, where they get to predictive accounting, customer behavior segmentation, profile completeness for in sales, solution recommenders, model training infrastructure for the base software foundation, they have a pretty rich roadmap. But I guess I would have thought it'd be a little farther along. But then Oracle isn't really any farther along. (mumbles) has done some work for HR. For whatever reason, I think that enterprise application vendors, I think they found this challenging for two reasons. On the technical side, machine learning is very different from the traditional analytics they did, which was really essentially OLAP, you know, business intelligence. This requires the data scientists and the white lab coats and instead of backward-looking business intelligence this forward-looking predictive analytics. The other thing is, I think you sell this stuff differently, which is, when it was business intelligence, you're basically selling reporting on what happened to department heads or function leaders, whereas when you're selling predictive capabilities, it's a little more transformative and you're not selling efficiency, which is what these applications have always, that's been their value preposition. You're selling transformational outcomes, which is a different sort of selling motion. >> It's funny, I heard a funny quote the other day. We used to look backwards for the sample of the data. (laughs thinly) Now we're in real time with-- >> Both: All the data. >> Very different situation-- >> And forward-looking. >> And forward-looking as well, with the predictive. >> That's a great quote, yeah. >> Again, he touched on so many things. But one of the things he brought up is Tesla. He actually said he has two Teslas, or he has a second Tesla. And there was question and answer afterwards really about the Tesla, not as the technology platform. And he poked fun at Germans. He said Germans have problems with simplicity. He referenced, I presume, a Mercedes or a Porsche, you know, the perfectly ergonomically placed buttons and switches. He goes, "You sit in a Tesla "and it just all comes up on the touch screen. "And if you want to do an update overnight, "they update your software, "and now you have the newer version of the car," versus the Mercedes, where it takes 'em three years to redesign the buttons and switches. I thought that was interesting. Then one of the Q&A people said, "But what about the buying experience? "If you (mumbles) ever bought a Tesla, "it's a very different experience "than buying a car." How does that really apply to selling software? It was pretty interesting. He said we're not there yet. But he has clearly grasped on, it's a new world and it's a new way to interact with the customers, kind of like his no manuals comment, that Tesla is defining a new way to buy a car, experience a car, upgrade a car. >> Operate it. >> At the same time, he got the crazy mode, fanatical mode, like, ludicrous mode, so that he could stop and tell the Porsche guys that you're falling behind further every single day. So I thought, really interesting, bringing that kind of consumer play and kind of a cutting edge automotive example into what was historically pretty stodgy enterprise software space. >> You know, it's funny, I listened when you're saying that. That was almost like the day one objective from SalesForce, which was, we want an enterprise app like Sebol, but we want an eBay-like, or Yahoo-like experience. And that did change the experience for buying it and for operating it. I think that was almost 20 years ago, where that was Marc Benioff's objective and he's saying it's easier to do that for CRM, but it's now time to bring that to ERP. >> The other thing he brought in which I was happy, being a Bay Area resident, is the Sharks. Because he's a part owner of San Josey Sharks, obviously it's SAP Center now, also known as the Shark Tank. It used to be owned by another technology company. But he made just a funny thing. "I like hockey, so I should like SAP," and he was talking about the analysis of how often the logos come up on the telecast et cetera. But the thing that struck me is, he said the analysis is actually now faster than the game. Pretty interesting way to think about this data in flow, in that the analysis coming out of the game that feeds Vegas, it feeds all these stat lines, it feeds fantasy, it feeds all this stuff, it feeds the advertising purchase and the ROI on my logo, is it in the corner, is it on the ice, is it in the middle, is actually moving faster than the hockey game. And hockey is a pretty fast game. Very different world in which we live, even on the mar-tech side. >> That was an example of one of the machine learning-type apps, because I think in their case, they were using, I think, Google image recognition technology to parse out essentially all the logos and see what type of impact your brand made relative to your purchase. >> I mean, I could go on and on. I've so many notes. Again, I live tweeted a lot of it, you know, he's just such a humble guy. He's a smart guy. He comes at it with a technology background, but he said we're a little bit slower than we'd like, he talked about some things taking longer than he thought they would. But he also now sees around the corner, that we are very quickly going to be in this age of infinite compute, and we are already in an age of, no one's reading manuals. Just seemed very kind of customer-centric, we're no longer the super-smart Germans that, "We'll do it our way or the highway, "and you will adapt your process to us," but really customer-centric point of view, design thinking, talked about sharing their roadmap as far out in advance as possible. I think he specifically, when he got questioned on design thinking, he's, like, "You know, the studies show that a collaborative effort "yields better results. "It's no longer, 'We're the smartest guy in the room "'and we're going to do it this way "'and you're going to adapt.'" So really progressive. >> And he talked about, with Concur, he said their UI is so easy that you really don't need a manual. In fact, if you do, you failed. And I think what he's trying to say is, we're going to take that iterative prototyping capability agile development and extend it to the rest of the ERP family. With their Fiori UI and the tools that build those screens that it'll make that possible. >> You've handled CAP. We don't spend enough investment on design in UI, 'cause it is such an important piece of the puzzle. But George, we're running out of time here. I want to give you the last word. You've been paying attention to SAP for a very long time. Hasso's terrific, but then Hasso gets off the stage and he said, "I don't run the company any more. "I only make recommendations." As you look at SAP, and Bill McDermott was yesterday, are they changing? Are they just stuck in an innovator's dilemma because they just make so much money on their historical business? Or are they really changing? What's your take as they develop, where they are now, and what do you see going forward for SAP? >> Well it's a really good question. I would say, I look at the value of the business processes that they are either augmenting or automating. I hesitate to say automate because, as he said, you still want the pilot in the cockpit. >> Jeff: In proximity to take control. >> Right. And he was, like, "Look, when we do the invoice matching, "it's not like we're going to get 100% right. "We're going to get it," I think he was saying, like, in the labs right now it's, like, 94% right. So we're going to make you more productive, we're not going to eliminate that job. But when you're doing invoice matching, that's not a super high value business process. If you're doing something where you're predicting churn and making a next best offer to a customer, that's a higher value process. Or if you have a multi-touchpoint commerce solution where you can track the customer, whether it's mobile, whether he's coming via chat, whether he's in the store, and you're able to see his history or her history and what's most appropriate given their context at any one moment, that's higher value. And then it's super high value to be able to take that back upstream towards, "Okay, here's where the inventory is. "I have some in this store. "I can't fulfill that clothing item directly from the store, "but I can fulfill it from this one," or, "I have it in another warehouse," when you have that level of awareness and integration, that's high value. >> Yeah, but I want to push back a little bit on you, George, 'cause I do think the invoice ma-, if he can automatically match 94% of the invoices, that is tremendous value. I just think it's so creative when you apply this machine learning to tasks that feel relatively mundane. But if you're speeding your cash flow along, if you get 94% of your invoices done one day faster and you're a multimillion dollar business, what is the direct dollar impact on the bottom line, like, immediately? It's huge. And then you can iterate and move into other processes. I think what's termed a low value transaction is actually a lot higher value than people give it credit. It's just like again, another one we hear about all the time, automation of password reset. Some of these service desks, password reset, I heard a stat, and one of them was 70% of the calls are password reset. So if you could automate password reset, sounds kind of silly and mundane, oh my gosh, it's like 70% of your calls. It's humongous. >> I hear what you're saying. Let me give you another counter example, which was, I think he brought this up. I don't know if it was today or when Michael Dell spoke, which was that Dell's revolution wasn't that they were more efficient than doing what Compaq did. It's that they had a different business model, which was specifically, they got paid before they even procured or assembled the components. >> Or paid for them, right? >> George: Yes, yes. >> They had no inventory carry costs. >> In fact, that meant their working capital, their working capital needs were negative. In fact, the bigger they got, the more money they collected before they had to spend it. That's a different business model. That wasn't automating the invoice matching. That was, we have such good systems that we don't even have to pay for them and then assemble the stuff until after the customer gave us their credit card. >> Right, right, right. >> I think those are the things that new types of applications can make possible. >> Right. Well, we see it time and time again. It's all about scale, it's all about finding inefficiencies, and there's a lot more inefficiencies around than people give credit, as Uber showed with a lot of cars that sit in driveways and Amazon and the public clouds are showing with a lot of inefficient, not used utilization and private data centers. So the themes go on and on, and they're pretty universal. So, exciting keynote. Any last comment before we sign off for today? >> I guess we want to take a close look at Oracle next and see how their roadmap looks like in terms of applying these new technologies, iOT, machine learning, block chain. Because all of these can remake how you build a business. >> All right, that's George Gilbert from Wikibon. I'm Jeff Frick from the CUBE. We are covering ongoing coverage of SAP SAPPHIRE 2017. Thanks for watching, we'll be back with more after this short break. Thanks. (lively music)

(bombastic music) >> Narrator: It's theCUBE, covering Sapphire Now 2017. Brought to you by SAP Cloud Platform and HANA Enterprise Cloud. >> Lisa Martin: Journey to the Cloud requires empathy, requires transparency, and we've both kind of chatted about... Empathy is kind of an interesting thing. >> George Gilbert: Yeah. >> We don't necessarily hear a lot of CEOs talk about that. They also really talked about and drove home the point that software is now a strategy. Being open is a game-changer. So, a couple of things I kind of wanted to recap with you was there was two initiatives that they, SAP, launched, or announced, today, reinforcing the pledge to listen to customers. And one of them is the SAP Cloud Trust Center, this public website that offers real-time information on the current operations of Cloud solutions from SAP. Along the lines of empathy and transparency and really listening to the customers, what, in your take, is the SAP Cloud Trust Center, and what does it really mean? >> Okay, maybe start with an analogy. We used to call people who did not want to outsource their infrastructure, we called them "server-huggers," you know, they wanted to own their infrastructure. And part of allowing your software, mission critical software, to migrate off your... out of your data centers, off-prem, requires a certain amount of trust that takes awhile... takes awhile to earn, because you're going from infrastructure that you've tuned and that only supports your app to infrastructure in the Cloud that's shared. And that's a big change. So, essentially, SAP is saying, "We'll give you a window onto how we operate this, so that we can earn your trust over time." You know, sort of like a marriage: through thick and thin, richer or for poorer, because there are going to be hiccups and downtimes. But ideally, SAP is taking responsibility and risk off the customer. And over time, that should be... Since they know better how to run their software than anyone else, that should work. So they're taking what they believe is a very reasonable risk in saying, "We'll show you how well we do, and we'll show you we do it better than you." >> So there are, right now, there will be three operations, three services, that will be visible, where customers can see planned maintenance schedules, four weeks of historical data, as well as real-time availability, security, and data to privacy. You brought up a great point that I think in many, many contexts, this transcends industries. This transcends peoples. That trust has to be earned. Does this set SAP apart, or differentiate them, in the market? >> Gilbert: I actually think that this was the sincerest form of flattery in terms of copying Salesforce.com. >> Martin: Ah. >> Because they've had this for awhile. And SAP is far more mission-critical, because it's sort of your system of record. It keeps track of everything that happens in your business, whereas Salesforce, it's not really a transactional system. It's more of keeping track of your opportunities, you know, and your customers. If SAP goes down, your business goes down. >> Right. Right. So another thing that they announced regarding, or along the same lines of, this pledge to customers about being empathetic, about being transparent, is the Transformation Navigator. Now, this came actually directly out of comments that Bill McDermott made at SAP Sapphire 2016, where SAP really wanted to start looking at the world through the customer's perspective, through their lens. So talk to us about the Transformation Navigator. Who is it for, what does it do, and what can people or companies expect to get from it? >> I think that one way to look at it is SAP made a bunch of very large and very important acquisitions, like Concur for expense reporting, SuccessFactors for... HR measurement and talent management, and Ariba for procurement. And I don't think they had put together a compelling case for why you buy them all together. And I think that was the first objective of the Transformation Navigator, because it says that it outlines the business value, helps you with transformation services, explains how all the Cloud apps, which were the ones they bought, integrate with the existing ERP, whether on-prem or in the Cloud, and shows you a roadmap. So it sounds to me like it's their first comprehensive attempt to say, "Buy our product family." I would say that the empathy part, the Cloud Trust Center, is a much deeper attempt to say, "Hey, we're going to make all this stuff work together." The first is a value proposition. >> Martin: Right. We should mention that there are two sessions at SAP Sapphire Now that attendees can take advantage of under the auspices of the SAP Transformation Navigator. There is a session on digital transformation, a concept session, and there's also digital transformation deep-dive sessions. So if you're around and you've got time, check those out. Another thing that we talked a lot about today, and that we heard a good amount of today, George, was this expanded Leonardo. That was brought up in the keynote on main stage this morning. And we know that Leonardo was really the brand for IoT, but now it's got new ingredients, it's got these new systems of intelligence, machine learning, artificial intelligence, analytics, blockchain. What are the keys of getting value from these technologies with this new, expanded Leonardo capability? >> I guess one way to think about it is... So the SAP core, which they call, I believe they call the... either "digital core" or just "core," which is the old system of record, and then all these new capabilities around it, which is how to extend that system of record into a system of intelligence. Again, used to be just... Last year, it was IoT, but now there's so much more richness that goes around it. These are all building blocks that customers can sort of ultimately mix and match. Like, you could use blockchain as a way of ensuring that there's no tampering or fraud from the bananas in Peru, all the way till the grocery store in New Jersey. But if you use that in conjunction with supply chain, machine learning, replenishment, you get much better asset utilization. I guess... they're trying to say, "We have your system of record. We have your mission-critical data and business processes." Now it's easy to build around on the edges, around the edge of that, to add the innovative processes. >> So it sounds like, from a value perspective, by embedding Leonardo into business applications... >> Gilbert: Yeah. >> There are innovations that customers can achieve, asset management, you talked about that, so there's clear business value. As you mentioned, it's maybe like a pick-and-choose that customers can decide which of these new systems of intelligence that they need, but there's clearly a business value derivation there. >> You could think of... Yeah, where all these new services enable transformative business outcomes, the old system of record was more, as we've talked about before, was about efficiency. So it makes sense to position these capabilities as transformative. And to say that they leverage the system of record, core, makes SAP appear to be the more natural provider of these new services. >> So in this route, they did announce that they are partnering with Deloitte. What do you think they're doing here? What's the advantage that provides to SAP's install base? >> When you're... embarking on these transformational business outcomes, there is... severe, challenging change management that has to be done. It's not just that it's... We always have products, processes, and technologies, or people, products, and technologies. Here, your processes and your people have to go through much more radical change than they would in an efficiency application, which was the old system of record. We all remember back when SAP R/3 was taking off, the big system integrators got spectacularly wealthy over the change management requirements to do the efficiency roll-outs. Now, to do the transformational ones are far more challenging right now. >> So, another thing that we chatted about earlier was that SAP has embedded machine learning into a new wave of applications. What are those applications, and what is this really for SAP as a business? >> Well, my favorite analogy is something I guess I heard from one of the SIs back in the heyday of the original SAP R/3, which was, you know... Traditional business intelligence and reporting was really about steering a ship by looking backwards at its wake. And machine learning is all about predictive... answers and solutions. So you pivot now, and we've heard a lot about this concept of "software's eating the world," but now data is eating software, because it's the data that programs the software about how to look forward. And some of those forward-looking things are figuring out how to route a service ticket, like, if something goes wrong, where does it go into the support organization? A really important top-line one is customer retention, where you predict if a customer is about to churn, what type of offer do you have to make? >> Martin: Right. >> Then there's a cash application, which, to me, is kind of administrative, where it makes it easy to match a receivable, like an invoice, with a bank statement. Still kind of clerical, and yes, you get productivity out of it, but it's not a top-line thing like the customer churn function. There's a brand impact one where it's like, "I've spent x amount to promote my brand at a sporting event, used machine vision to find out how many logos were out there, and did it have impact that I can measure?" There are a whole bunch of applications like this, and there will be more. And when I say more, I think the more impactful ones that relate to, like, supply chain, where it's optimizing the flow of goods, choosing strategic suppliers... >> So this may be, with SAP embedding machine learning into this new wave of apps, is, like, a positive first step, entry level, for them to get up the chain of value? >> Gilbert: Yeah. The first... Yes. Yes. Yes. The first ones look to be sort of like baby steps, but SAP is in a position to implement more impactful ones. But it's worth saying, though, that in the spirit of "data is eating software," the people who have the most data are not the enterprise application vendors. They're the public Cloud vendors. >> Martin: Right. >> And they are the... sort of... unacknowledged future competitors, mortal competitors, for machine learning apps. >> Okay. Interesting. So, another thing that I wanted to switch gears, see if we could get a couple more topics in before we wrap here... The digital twin for IoT devices. So the relaunching of Leonardo as SAP's digital brand, they've expanded this definition. What does that mean? What is the digital twin? >> Okay, so digital twin is probably the most brilliant two-word marketing term that's come out of our industry in awhile. >> (chuckling) >> Because GE came up with it to describe, with their industrial Internet of Things, any industrial asset or device where, you took a physical version, and then you created a very high-fidelity software representation of it, or digital representation. I don't want to say replica, because it'll never be that perfect. >> Martin: Okay. >> But they would take the design information from a piece of CAD software, like maybe PTC or Autodesk. So that's as designed. There would be information from how it was manufactured. That particular instance, in addition to, let's say all aircraft engines of this... (sudden musical interlude) ...track, each instance. >> (coughing) Excuse me. >> Then, how it was shipped or who it was sent to, how it was operated, how it was maintained, so then you could... The aircraft engine manufacturer could provide proactive fleet maintenance for all the engines. It would be different from the... very different from having the airlines looking in their manuals, saying, "Okay, every 50,000 miles I got to change the oil." Here, the sensors and the data go back to the aircraft engine manufacturer. And they can say, "Well, the one that's been flying in the Middle East is exposed to sand." So that needs to be proactively maintained at a much shorter interval. And the one that's been flying across the Atlantic, that gets very little gunk in it, can have a much larger maintenance window. So you can optimize things in a way that the current capabilities wouldn't allow you to. >> And they showed an example of that with the Arctic Wind pilot project, which is very interesting. >> Yeah. Where it showed windmills, and not just the wind farm. You saw the wind farm, but you also see the different wear and tear, or the different optimizations of individual windmills. >> Martin: Right. >> And that's pretty interesting. Because you can also reorient them based on climate conditions, microclimate conditions. >> Exactly. So last topic I wanted to dig in with you today is blockchain. So you and I chatted about this, kind of chatted about... What is blockchain, this distributed ledger technology? In the simplest definition, a reliable record of who owns what, and who transacts what. So from what we heard today, and from our conversation, it seems like maybe SAP is dipping a toe into the water here. Give us a little bit of insight about what it is they're doing with blockchain, and maybe a couple of key use cases that they shared in supply chain, for example. >> Okay. So the definition you gave, I think distills it really well, with one caveat. Which is, if it's a record of who owns what, who's done what, in the past we needed an intermediary to do that. The bank. Like, when you're closing on your house, you know, someone puts the money in, you know, someone signs the contract. And only when both are done does it exchange hands. With a blockchain, you wouldn't need someone in the middle because the transaction's not complete until, on one part of the ledger, someone has put the money in, and, on the other part, someone's put the title in. And, not to sound too grandiose, but I've heard people refer to this as the biggest change in how finance and trust operates since Italian double-entry bookkeeping was invented in, like, the 1300s, or somewhere way, way back. And so, if we take it to a modern usage scenario, we could take... foodstuffs that are grown, let's say in Southeast Asia, they get put in a container that's locked. And then we can know that it's tamper-proof, because any attempt to open that would be reflected as a transaction in the blockchain. There are other, probably better, examples, but the idea is, we can have trust in so many more scenarios without having a middleman. And so the transaction costs change dramatically. And that allows for much more friction-free transactions and business processes than we ever thought possible. Because having someone like a bank or a lawyer in the middle is expensive. >> Right. And I'm glad that you kind of brought that back to trust as we wrap up. That was kind of the key theme that we heard today. >> Gilbert: Yeah. >> And a lot of great announcements. So George, thanks so much for spending the day with me, analyzing day one of SAP Sapphire Now 2017. >> Gilbert: Thank you, Lisa. >> And we thank you for watching. George and I will be back tomorrow analyzing day two and talking about great things that are going on, again, coverage from SAP Sapphire Now 2017. For George Gilbert, I'm Lisa Martin. We'll see you next time. (fanfare)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Rick here with the Cube. We are live in downtown San Jose at the historic Pagoda Lounge, part of Big Data SV, which is part of Strata + Hadoop Conference, which is part of Big Data Week because everything big data is pretty much in San Jose this week. So we're excited to be here. We're here with George Gilbert, our big data analyst from Wikibon, and a great guest, Gaurav Dhillon, Chairman and CEO of SnapLogic. Gaurav, great to see you. >> Pleasure to be here, Jeff. Thank you for having me. George, good to see you. >> You guys have been very busy since we last saw you about a year ago. >> We have. We had a pretty epic year. >> Yeah, give us an update, funding, and customers, and you guys have a little momentum. >> It's a good thing. It's a good thing, you know. A friend and a real mentor to us, Dan Wormenhoven, the Founder and CEO of NetApp for a very long time, longtime CEO of NetApp, he always likes to joke that growth cures all startup problems. And you know what, that's the truth. >> Jeff: Yes. >> So we had a scorching year, you know. 2016 was a year of continuing to strengthen our products, getting a bunch more customers. We got about 300 new customers. >> Jeff: 300 new customers? >> Yes, and as you know, we don't sell to small business. We sell to the enterprise. >> Right, right. >> So, this is the who's who of pharmaceuticals, continued strength in high-tech, continued strength in retail. You know, all the way from Subway Sandwich to folks like AstraZeneca and Amgen and Bristol-Myers Squibb. >> Right. >> So, some phenomenal growth for the company. But, you know, we look at it very simply. We want to double our company every year. We want to do it in a responsible way. In other words, we are growing our business in such a way that we can sail over to cash flow break-even at anytime. So responsibly doubling your business is a wonderful thing. >> So when you look at it, obviously, you guys are executing, you've got good products, people are buying. But what are some of the macro-trends that you're seeing talking to all these customers that are really helping push you guys along? >> Right, right. So what we see is, and it used to be the majority of our business. It's now getting to be 50/50. But still I would say, historically, the primary driver for 2016 of our business was a digital transformation at a boardroom level causing a rethinking of the appscape and people bringing in cloud applications like Workday. So, one of the big drivers of our growth is helping fit Workday into the new fabric in many enterprises: Vassar College, into Capital One, into finance and various other sectors. Where people bring in Workday, they want to make that work with what they have and what they're going to buy in the future, whether it's more applications or new types of data strategies. And that is the primary driver for growth. In the past, it was probably a secondary driver, this new world of data warehousing. We like to think of it as a post-modern era in the use of data and the use of analytics. But this year, it's trending to be probably 50/50 between apps and data. And that is a shift towards people deploying in the same way that they moved from on-premise apps to SAS apps, a move towards looking at data platforms in the cloud for all the benefits of racking and stacking and having the capability rather than being in the air-conditioning, HVAC, and power consumption business. And that has been phenomenal. We've seen great growth with some of the work from Microsoft Azure with the Insights products, AWS's Redshift is a fantastic growth area for us. And these sorts of technologies, we think are going to be of significant impact to the everyday, the work clothing types of analytics. Maybe the more exotic stuff will stay on prem, but a lot of the regular business-like stuff, you know, stuff in suits and ties is moving into the cloud at a rapid pace. >> And we just came off the Google Next show last week. And Google really is helping continue to push kind of ML and AI out front. And so, maybe it's not the blue suit analytics. >> Gaurav: Indeed, yes. >> But it does drive expectations. And you know, the expectations of what we can get, what we should get, what we should be moving towards is rapidly changing. >> Rapidly changing, for example, we saw at The New York Times, which as many of Google's flagship enterprise customers are media-related. >> Jeff: Right. >> No accident, they're so proficient themselves being in the consumer internet space. So as we encountered in places like The New York Times, is there's a shift away from a legacy data warehouse, which people like me and others in the last century, back in my time in Informatica, might have sold them towards a cloud-first strategy of using, in their case, Google products, Bigtable, et cetera. And also, they're doing that because they aspirationally want to get at consumer prices without having to have a campus and the expense of Google's big brain. They want to benefit from some of those things like TensorFlow, et cetera, through the machine learning and other developer capabilities that are now coming along with that in the cloud. And by the way, Microsoft has amazing machine learning capability in its Azure for Microsoft Research as well. >> So Gaurav, it's interesting to hear sort of the two drivers. We know PeopleSoft took off starting with HR first and then would add on financials and stumble a little bit with manufacturing. So, when someone wants to bring in Workday, is it purely an efficiency value prop? And then, how are you helping them tie into the existing fabric of applications? >> Look, I think you have to ask Dave or Aneel or ask them together more about that dynamic. What I know, as a friend of the firm and as somebody we collaborate with, and, you know, this is an interesting statistic, 20 percent of Workday's financial customers are using SnapLogic, 20 percent. Now, it's a nascent business for them and you and I were around in the last century of ERP. We saw the evolution of functional winners. Some made it into suites and some didn't. Siebel never did. PeopleSoft at least made a significant impact on a variety of other things. Yes, there was Bonn and other things that prevented their domination of manufacturing and, of course, the small company in Walldorf did a very good job on it too. But that said, what we find is it's very typical, in a sense, how people using TIBCO and Informatica in the last century are looking at SnapLogic. And it's no accident because we saw Workdays go to market motion, and in a sense, are following, trying to do the same thing Dave and Aneel have done, but we're trying to do the same thing, being a bunch of ex-Informatica guys. So here's what it is. When you look at your legacy installation, and you want to modernize it, what are your choices? You can do a big old upgrade because it's on-premise software. Or you can say, "You know what? "For 20% more, I could just get the new thing." And guess what? A lot of people want to get the new thing. And that's what you're going to see all the time. And that's what's happening with companies like SnapLogic and Workday is, you know, someone. Right here locally, Adobe, it's an icon in technology and certainly in San Jose that logo is very big. A few years ago, they decided to make the jump from legacy middleware, TIBCO, Informatica, WebMethods, and they've replaced everything globally with SnapLogic. So in that same way, instead of trying to upgrade this version and that version and what about what we do in Japan, what do we do in Sweden, why don't you just find a platform as a service that lets you elevate your success and go towards a better product, more of a self-service better UX, millennial-friendly type of product? So that's what's happening out there. >> But even that three-letter company from Walldorf was on-stage last week. You can now get SAP on the Google Cloud Platform which I thought was pretty amazing. And the other piece I just love but there's still a few doubters out there on the SAS platform is now there's a really visual representation. >> Gaurav: There is. >> Of the dominance of that style going up in downtown San Francisco. It's 60 stories high, and it's taken over the landscape. So if there's ever any a doubt of enterprise adaptation of SAS, and if anything, I would wonder if kind of the proliferation of apps now within the SAS environment inside the enterprise starts to become a problem in and of its own self. Because now you have so many different apps that you're working on and working. God help if the internet goes down, right? >> It's true, and you know, and how do you make e pluribus unim, out of many one, right? So it's hilarious. It is almost at proliferation at this point. You know, our CFO tapped me the other day. He said, "Hey, you've got to check this out." "They're using a SAS application which they got "from a law firm to track stock options "inside the company." I'm like, "Wow, that is a job title and a vertical." So only high growth private venture backed companies need this, and typically it's high tech. And you have very capable SAS, even in the small grid squares in the enterprise. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So, a sign, and I think that's probably another way to think about the work that we do at SnapLogic and others. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Other people in the marketplace like us. What we do essentially is we give you the ERP of one. Because if you could choose things that make sense for you and they could work together in a very good way to give you very good fabric for your purposes, you've essentially bought a bespoke suit at rack prices. Right? Without that nine times multiplier of the last century of having to have just consultants without end, darkened the sky with consultants to make that happen. You know? So that, yes, SAS proliferation is happening. That is the opportunity, also the problem. For us, it's an opportunity where that glass is half-full we come in with SnapLogic and knit it together for you to give you fabric back. And people love that because the businesses can buy what they want, and the enterprise gets a comprehensive solution. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Well, at the risk of taking a very short tangent, that comment about darkening the skies, if I recall, was the battle of the Persians threatening the 300 Greeks at the battle of Thermopylae. >> Gaurav: Yes. >> And they said, "We'll darken the skies with our arrows." And so the Greek. >> Gaurav: Come and get 'em. >> No, no. >> The famous line was, he said, "Give us your weapons." And the guy says, "Come and get 'em." (laughs) >> We got to that point, the Greek general says, "Well, we'll fight in the shade." (all laughing) But I wanted to ask you. >> This is the movie 300 as well, right? >> Yes. >> The famous line is, "Give us your weapons." He said, "Come and get 'em." (all laughing) >> But I'm thinking also of the use case where a customer brings in Workday and you help essentially instrument it so it can be a good citizen. So what does that make, or connect it so it can be a good citizen. How much easier does that mean or does that make fitting in other SAS apps or any other app into the fabric, application fabric? >> Right, right. Look, George. As you and I know, we both had some wonderful runs in the last century, and here we are doing version 2.0 in many ways, again, very similar to the Workday management. The enterprise is hip to the fact that there is a Switzerland nature to making things work together. So they want amazing products like Workday. They want amazing products like the SAP Cloud Suite, now with Concur, SuccessFactors in there. Some very cool things happening in the analytics world which you'll see at Sapphire and so on. So some very, very capable products coming from, I mean, Oracle's bought 80 SAS companies or 87 SAS companies. And so, what you're seeing is the enterprise understands that there's going to be red versus blue and a couple other stripes and colors and that they want their businesspeople to buy whatever works for them. But they want to make them work together. All right? So there is a natural sort of geographic or structural nature to this business where there is a need for Switzerland and there is a need for amazing technology, some of which can only come from large companies with big balance sheets and vertical understanding and a legacy of success. But if a customer like an AstraZeneca where you have a CIO like Dave Smoley who transformed Flextronics, is now doing the same thing at AstraZeneca bringing cloud apps, is able to use companies like SnapLogic and then deploy Workday appropriately, SAP appropriately, have his own custom development, some domestic, some overseas, all over the world, then you've got the ability again to get something very custom, and you can do that at a fraction of the cost of overconsulting or darkening the skies in the way that things were done in the last century. >> So, then tell us about maybe the convergence of the new age data warehousing, the data science pipeline, and then this bespoke collection of applications, not bespoke the way Oracle tried it 20 years ago where you had to upgrade every app tied into every other app on prem, but perhaps the integration, more from many to one because they're in the cloud. There's only one version of each. How do you tie those two worlds together? >> You know, it's like that old bromide, "Know when to hold 'em. "Know when to fold them." There is a tendency when programming becomes more approachable, you have more millennials who are able to pick up technology in a way. I mean, it's astounding what my children can do. So what you want to do is as a enterprise, you want to very carefully build those things that you want to build, make sure you don't overbuild. Or, say, if you have a development capability, then every problem looks like a development nail and you have a hammer called development. "Let's hire more Java programmers." That's not the answer. Conversely, you don't want to lose sight of the fact that to really be successful in this millennium, you have to have a core competence around technology. So you want to carefully assemble and build your capability. Now, nobody should ever outsource management. That's a bad idea. (chuckles) But what you want to do is you want to think about those things that you want to buy as a package. Is that a core competence? So, there are excellent products for finance, for human capital management, for travel expense management. Coupa just announced today their for managing your spend. Some of the work at Ariba, now the Ariba Cloud at SAP, are excellent products to help you do certain job titles really well. So you really shouldn't be building those things. But what you should be doing is doing the right element of build and buy. So now, what does that mean for the world of analytics? In my view, people building data platforms or using a lot of open source and a lot of DevOps labor and virtualization engineering and all that stuff may be less valuable over time because where the puck is going is where a lot of people should skate to is there is a nature of developing certain machine language and certain kind of AI capabilities that I think are going to be transformational for almost every industry. It is hard to imagine anything in a more mechanized back office, moving paper, manufacturing, that cannot go through a quantum of improvement through AI. There are obviously moral and certain humanity dystopia issues around that to be dealt with. But what people should be doing is I think building out the AI capabilities because those are very custom to that business. Those have to do with the business's core competence, its milieu of markets and competitors. But there should be, in a sense, stroking a purchase order in the direction of a SAS provider, a cloud data provider like Microsoft Azure or Redshift, and shrinking down their lift-and-shift bill and their data center bill by doing that. >> It's fascinating how long it took enterprises to figure out that. Just like they've been leveraging ADP for God knows how many years, you know, there's a lot of other SAS applications you can use to do your non-differentiated heavy lifting, but they're clearly all in now. So Gaurav, we're running low on time. I just want to say, when we get you here next year, what's top of your plate? What's top of priorities for 2017? Cause obviously you guys are knocking down things left and right. >> Thank you, Jeff. Look, priority for us is growth. We're a growth company. We grow responsibly. We've seen a return to quality on the part of investors, on the part of public and private investors. And you know, you'll see us continue to sort of go at that growth opportunity in a manner consistent with our core values of building product with incredible success. 99% of our customers are new to our products last quarter. >> Jeff: Ninety-nine percent? >> Yes sir. >> That says it all. >> And in the world of enterprise software where there's a lot of snake oil, I'm proud to say that we are building new product with old-fashioned values, and that's what you see from us. >> Well 99% customer retention, you can't beat that. >> Gaurav: Hard to beat! There's no way but down from there, right? (laughing) >> Exactly. Alright Gaurav, well, thanks. >> Pleasure. >> For taking a few minutes out of your busy day. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> And I really appreciate the time. >> Thank you, Jeff, thank you, George. >> Alright, he's George Gilbert. I'm Jeff Rick. You're watching the Cube from the historic Pagoda Lounge in downtown San Jose. Thanks for watching.

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Sapphire Now. Headline sponsored by SAP HANA Cloud, the leader in platform-as-a-service, with support from Consul, Inc, the Cloud internet company. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Peter Burris. >> Everyone, we are live in Orlando, Florida for a special presentation of theCube at SAP Sapphire Now's theCube SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from noise. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris Want to give a shout out to our sponsors. Without them, we would not be here. SAP HANA Cloud Platform Console Inc, Capgemini and EMC, thanks for your support, really excited to be here. Wall-to-wall coverage, three days. Over forty videos going to be hitting YouTube: SiliconANGLE.com/youtube. Our next guest is Dan Lahl, VP of SAP HANA Cloud Platform Product Marketing, welcome to theCube, thanks for having us. >> Thank you, John. You got all that out without a stumble. That was fantastic. >> I memorize it. >> That's great. >> Without our sponsors, we wouldn't be here, thank you very much. Thanks to you, and it's a been great support from you and your team. Really appreciate it, welcome to theCube. >> Love being here. You guys have something very unique in how you bring a play-by-play but from an analyst's perspective, very, very unique. >> Someone called me Pat Summerall, and Peter, John Madden yesterday, which was a great compliment because our lives are ESPN of tech. >> And I like it because it means I'm the better looking one. >> Exactly. >> NFL Gameday, but the game is on. >> Peter: Who's a guy? >> John: Boom! (laughs) >> Boom the Cloud is here! >> It's the whiteboard. But all seriously, great conversation. One of the things that's emerging out of the whole HANA Cloud Platform Ecosystem play is that it's really buzzing, and it's not like sizzle, but it's steak on the grill as well. So, just a lot of meat on the bone and the thing that we're seeing is that SAP has been putting themselves out there with tech. And not trying to do the land grab, not saying, hey, we're SAP and this is all a marketing program to get more SAP share for our other stuff. There's clear separation between SAP stuff, whether it's, whatever the customers are buying, and then an open way for developers; both SAP developers and, now, mainstream developers, iOS and Apple so, huge shift. And the Ecosystem's super excited, so I got to ask you, how do you guys separate out the market? Explain to the folks out there how this all fits in because the HANA Cloud platform is more open, it's really non-SAP, in a way. And there's other clouds out there, and let's face it, you guys weren't getting the buzz. A little bit late to the party, and you've got the product in good position right now. But you got Amazon out there, as your Microsoft was here, you know, doing relationship with you, your partnering with Apple, IBM was on, Cisco, all the big guys are here working with you. Separate out what it means. >> So let me back up, let me back up and give you all the HANA buzzwords, we've been very confusing to the market on how we brand it to different HANA products. There's the HANA database, data managing platform, we came out with that in 2011; very similar to Oracle from SQL Interface standpoint, very different from a technology standpoint. All in memory, and everybody knows that by now. Then, we have another initiative called S/4HANA. That's taking all of the applications, putting them onto the HANA data management platform. So that's the app stack. So business suite is now S/4HANA. So data management was HANA, S/4HANA, app stack. Then we have something called the HANA Enterprise Cloud, and that's just basically a managed service. You want to take your landscape, give it to our data center, let us manage for you. >> For SAP stuff? >> SAP stuff. Yeah, not any of the red stuff or anybody else's apps but >> But some of the partner extensions? >> But some of the partner extensions, yes. And that has to be certified, but basically it's a managed service. So you want to give your data center over to SAP? Guarantee that it will run, we'll upgrade all of the apps and enhancement packs and that kind of thing. So that's HANA Enterprise Cloud. And then finally, HANA Cloud Platform is something different altogether. It really is our offer, open platform as a service. So, any of the applications that SAP is shipping today, whether that be business suite, S/4HANA, Success Factors, Ariba, Concur, Cloud for Customer, you name it, can be extended or integrated using HANA Cloud Platform. Okay, so HANA data management, HEC, the managed service, S/4HANA, the new app stack, HCP, really the extension platform for that SAP Ecosystem. Okay? Now I say that, it's an open platform. It's Java-based, can you believe it? It's not ABAP-based, it's Java-based. Node.js, all open systems. We announced at the show that we're shipping Cloud Foundry with Node.js runtimes scripting languages like Ruby and Python and PHP and Go. Databases like Mongo and Postgres and Redis, it's open systems, baby, right? >> All the tools that they are offering. >> Exactly, they can do that. Yeah. So, any programmer under 30, we can now approach and have a conversation with. They don't have to learn a German programming language, right? Now, whether it's good or bad, it doesn't make any difference, it's open systems, right? And so that's kind of the framework of what we announced. >> What's that mean to developers? Let's take that forward, okay, open cloud platform, okay, great, under 30, or, just open source is so good now all the Q&A, all the questions are on Stack Overflow and all these Node.js and technology out to be used, so that's what people want. Okay, what's the impact to me? I'm the developer. What does it mean? What's in it for me? Do I have access to all the SAP stuff? I'm used to dealing with all these different tools to put systems together. >> That's the beauty, John, is all of those tools that you use, as an open systems developer, you can now, through HANA Cloud Platform, get to the back end systems that we didn't expose before, expect through an ABAP stack. Right, you don't have to learn BAPIs, you don't have to learn ABAP. You can use your Java capabilities, using Eclipse if you want, if you want to do it on your desktop device, or use a web IDE that's Java-based, right? >> But you're exposing these through API? >> Exactly, exactly, through either APIs or through integration services, through a direct connect back to the back ends. And we not only expose data, but also processes as well, so you can take advantage of a process. One of the things we announced this week was the API Business Hub. So now, we're going to deliver a catalog of APIs, where we'll publish into and an open system developer can say Oh, what's with that management accounting services? That hooks back into S/4HANA, I just need to call the API and take advantage of those management accounting services. Very cool. >> So on the Apple relationship, which is an iOS-based thing, the developer can then go to the Enterprise customer, so this is the Ecosystem now, okay I'm a developer. I have a whitespace, I see some unique thing, a problem that my customer has, that I can solve, or I'm an entrepreneur and say Hey, you know, I have a unique idea, I want to solve that problem. I code it but I might rely on SAP data, say an ERP, I could tap that-- >> You can now tap it. >> John: And integrate it in seamlessly? >> Yes, and show it natively on an iOS device. That's what we're delivering through the ACP software development kit SDK. So you're an Apple developer today. Well, you could develop the next SnapChat or some consumer-to-consumer app. But interesting, the bulk of Apple devices or the bulk of devices in the Enterprise, are Apple devices. They're not Android devices. Apple's done some work on that, upwards of 75% are actually Apple devices. So now, you're a developer, you want to get access to all of those different applications that SAP has, delivered in beautiful 1990s master detail today. >> Let's face it, I mean, we had this comment on theCube which we concur with, the user experience of Enterprise software is dated, and old, and people are bringing their phones to work. >> That's really kind of you to say dated and old, okay? I would have said old and crappy, okay? >> No one wakes up and says, hey I can't wait to download my Enterprise app and use it on the weekend. It's like root canal, don't love it, but you need it. >> Part number 000743xp, okay so now they can get into all of those processes without having to know the back end process. Through the SDK, we're going to expose all of those. >> Share some data on some of the onboard. I know you had a lot of early adopters and now the program's ramping up. We've talked over the past year and you guys are tweaking the product. You want to make sure the product was solid, that was key. Might have been delayed a little bit, but the timing of the Apple announcement, perfect. But I can imagine that the developers are excited because certainly in the Ecosystem out there, in Silicon Valley and beyond, there's a softening, it's kind of a bubble bursting, if you will, on the consumer stuff, so there might not be a couple more unicorns. The few unicorns that come along at every cycle of innovation. But the Enterprise is hot, so the buzz on the street is the Enterprise is hot, that's where you make money. As everyone works for a revenue model, you got to break even, so, there's a big focus on that in the entrepreneurial ecosystem. So, is there an uptake that you can share or any stats on the kinds of new onboarding that you guys are doing. >> Yeah, so just this week, we also announced that IBM is taking all of their MobileFirsts for iOS applications. They're going to participate in the SDK and they're going to move all of their applications onto the HANA cloud platform. They had a beautiful UI that they built for a hundred little mobile apps that were enterprise ready, but not enterprise connected. So now they're going to connect all those hundred little apps like Find&Fix, and Parts Manager and that kind of thing. >> I can see the slogan now. Enterprise: Ready to Connect. >> Exactly. >> Connecting. >> It's pretty decent validation of some of the things we're talking about here. >> Exactly, and the HCP play in it, for SAP is that's the gearbox to get them back to all of the SAP apps. Whether they be On Premise business suite, On Premise S/4HANA, Workforce Management, with Success Factors and Fieldglass. It's the gearbox to get them back to all of those. >> So let me ask the question, you're in a private market so you've got your eye on the prize in the market, you're forward-facing, but also you've got to work with the product teams and deal with that. Do you see a window of opportunity right now? Because the timing of having the product ready with HANA Cloud Platform plus the Apple relationship and the IBM stuff, which is more validation, a window of opportunity, the wind is at your back. This window, you've got a short window to kind of go out and win. Are you worried about that? Are you guys investing heavily now, do you see now a time to throttle it up and pedal to medal, straight and narrow, 90 miles an hour? >> You know, I actually see it as the wave is forming. Okay, I don't think our customer base knows that much about HANA Cloud Platform, it really has its coming out party at TechWave, last October. It's now exposed to the business group. We had the techie outage, now its the business outing. I see the wave starting to form, okay? And we've got to catch the wave and we got to ride the crap out of it. And there's a lot of stuff on the product side we have to deliver. There's a lot more that we have to do for integrating into our existing systems. We have to provide more direct, not direct connections, we've already got that piece, but more integration with the processes. We're not all the way there yet. So we have to push our product, our product management and engineering teams to do that. And that's not always easy at a big company like SAP that has all these different divisions building processes. And then the other hard part is, you got to make sure our sales reps are introducing us into every single customer account as a gearbox, as the agility platform. So that's starting to happen. So I wouldn't even say we're on the wave yet. We're starting to catch the wave. >> So let me build on that. I have two questions. I don't want to say they're quick. But here's the first one, here's what our CIO clients are telling us. One of the advantages of everything you said, platform, a lot of entry points, means that their business can pick their own road map for how they go to S/4HANA, as opposed to having single one-way, and that's the only way in, that'll extend the adoption cycle. Do you see that being a positive thing ultimately for not only SAP, in getting this message, and getting this product out, but also all the partners and the Ecosystem to drive this whole thing forward? >> Let me answer the customer part of that first. The way we have set up S/4 and HCP, is S/4 is the core that you really don't want to touch that much, you don't want to customize that much, you don't want to extend, you do that in HCP. Why would you want to do that? Well, as we deliver new enhancement packs, and we're delivering every couple of quarters, on the S/4 platform. Every time you do a customization inside the app, when you have to upgrade, you have to do regression tests, you got to check to customizations against the new rev. It becomes, in technical terms, a hairball. It becomes a huge hairball. Take that off the plate, just do it on HANA Cloud Platform. And so that's the customer angle to it, the partner angle to it is very simple, and it's a win-win for partners and for us. They can, and for customers as well, they can build a little app on the platform, snap it into S/4, Success Factor, and make it look like an app that's part of our SAS application, okay? The customer doesn't have to provision anything. The customer takes a tile and puts it on their Success Factor application. We win, because they're consuming it on HCP, so we're monetizing that too. So the partner has an easy path, the customer gets something easy, we help monetize on that. >> It's a great story and a lot of folks are looking forward, so for example, some of our clients are telling us, We are looking at the S/4platform, the S/4HANA platform, we came to it through analytics. So here's an interesting question Dan, you've got a lot of background in database. So the old way of thinking about building a database application is you didn't want to write an application required more than 80, 90, 100 disk I/Os. >> Yeah. Now we're talking about in-memory databases, calmative organization, provide any number of different straight-forward, common interfaces from a few standpoints back to the application. We're talkin' about what used to be or the equivalent of tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of I/Os. What does that mean to the types of applications that we're going to be able to build in the Ecosystem over the course of the next few years. >> So you're right in that all data's immediately available in-memory ready to go. But here's the cool thing that I think you were getting at. You can build a structure one time, you build a table structure one time. On top of that, you just build views, logical views. And then your queries or your application looks at the logical view. Now logical views aren't somethin' new. It was just horrible to do it on a disk-based databse. >> Yep, very digital. >> You have to do tons of optimizations. In a memory database, it doesn't matter. It's all there. You just look at the logical view. So we're going to see people stacking up more and more and more logical views. Specifically in the analytics case, we see that all the time. From a partner standpoint, they're going to build their table structure, and then mix and match different application types using logical views. And you know, in HANA, we provide calc views and attribute views. So even better ways to do that. >> But the bottom line is the way you get to that ability to take a tile and drop it into a system and add that functionality, is because that underlying platform can support that view in an almost unlimited way. >> Exactly, whether the data is in HANA in the Cloud, or whether the data is still on premise through a direct connection back in the existing HANA system on premise. >> Of course unstructured data complicates the database equation, but also they have to coexist with the schemas and the structured databases out there. Has that thrown a curve ball at you guys at all? Or not a problem at all with HANA? >> So you know we've got an answer for that with Vora. I don't know if you've talked to any of the Vora folks, but you know what Vora brings to the party is it brings in-memory capabilities. It's an in-memory indexer for dup data. So instead of pointing your sequel query or building a MapReduce or using Hive or one of those technologies-- >> Or data lakes-- >> Or whatever, you just point it at Vora, and it's already indexed in memory. So our plan and our hope is that soon Vora will be on the HANA Cloud Platform. So that's just another piece of technology-- >> Peter: Way of generating a view. >> It's another service that we provide for generating a view on top of the dup data. >> Yeah, that's key. So talk about the Ecosystem innovation. Because one of the things I loved in McDermott's opening keynote, and I love the term, business model innovation. 'Cause that just really speaks to a whole new level of innovation. Usually it's tech innovation. >> Yeah. >> You get destructive enablers, platforms. At the end of the day, the application of the tools and platforms, however they're developed, by whomever, impact something. That's the business. That's the revenue. These new processes that are emerging. IoT is a great example. It's kind of an unknown process. It's hard to automate that workflow because it's evolving in real time. What innovations can you point to that you see, and that SAP sees as key mile markers, if you will, that shows that these things are being innovated on the business model side with the Ecosystem? >> Yeah, I'll give you two examples, one that's kind of just a speed up. And then I'll give you one that's a business model. So Hamburg Port Authority is the Port Authority for Hamburg, the second largest port in Europe. For them to keep up with the competition, they're going to have to double and triple in the next 15 years, the amount of goods going through their port. They have nowhere to build out. They cannot make their port bigger. It's surrounded by a city. There's nowhere for them to go. So they're using HANA Cloud Platform to basically create a grid. They're creating a utility or a cell network grid of all the containers that are sensorized, all of the trucks that have telematics information in the trucks. And they're also bringing in traffic information so that when the container comes in, they can bring the exact truck in that needs to get it in the right path into the port. If you think about that, that's a cellular network. And that's what they built using HANA Cloud Platform. So it's a semi-change in business model for the technology-- >> So minutes matter to them. >> Seconds matter to them, literally. The faster they can match up the container with the truck that's going to move that container, the better off they are. >> They got to clear the inventory. Sounds like a business problem. >> Exactly, exactly right? And think about it, they're probably going to sensorize the ships as well. They're going to stage those guys coming in over time. >> John: What's the other example? >> The other example is really interesting. This small company in Germany that builds forklifts, There can be nothing more pedantic than a forklift. It picks up a pallet, it moves the pallet, it puts it down. So here's what this company's done. It's called Still Forklifts. They are using HANA Cloud Platform to match up their order system, which is an SAP with the forklifts that are sensorized on HANA Cloud Platform so that the order system will send the order to get picked by the forklift. And the forklift and the order system have the maps of where everything is in the warehouse. >> The client's order system. >> The client's order system. And they've also now, they haven't done it yet, but they're working on a forklift to forklift integration so that if this guy's over in this part of the warehouse he has to pick something up over here. This forklift is over here. They meet in the middle. Trade some product, get it out to the docking station. >> So the forklift is an IoT device to the order system. And it opens up the possibility of greater automation within the warehouse floor. >> And they've changed their business model. They're no longer selling forklifts. They're selling pounds of goods moved within the warehouse. From in the warehouse to shipped. And they're billing on a monthly basis based on pounds of goods shipped. They're not selling forklifts anymore. That is pretty cool. >> So that's a complete shift. >> That's a business model shift. >> It's an outcome shift. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> They're selling the outcome. >> Exactly, exactly. And they had to think differently about their business. They had to think, we are not a forklift operator. We're a goods mover operator. >> Or to your business model, we were a forklift operator. Now we're a goods mover, an in-warehouse goods mover. >> Exactly, exactly. >> That's a great example and also a huge innovation. Because now, as the keynotes were saying, people are afraid to go out of business. And so the opportunity for the Ecosystem is, put one of those guys at check. They'll get the check. If they don't move, you take their territory. >> Exactly. >> So it's a nice cycle, SAP wins on both sides. >> On both sides, yeah, very cool. >> All right Dan, I got to ask you the question. Plans for this year, you got the Apple. You got the Cloud Platform. You have all this goodness goin' on. What's the plans for the year. Give us a taste of some of the things that you want to achieve this year, out in the market. And what KPIs are you looking at-- >> Yeah, what are we going to be talking about this time next year? >> I think we're going to be talking about what did you guys do in the area of Cloud Foundry. Have you guys really delivered on your Cloud Foundry promise of going opensource and moving toward portability? So next year, if we're fortunate enough to speak again, That's what I want you to ask me. Where are you guys on delivering Cloud Foundry? Pushing opensource, open development for developers even further as we talked at the outset of the interview. And then secondly, where are we on the API business hub? What is SAP doing to expose the thousands of business services that we have to our customers? To be able to use the HANA Cloud Platform with a catalog of business services that we're exposing to help them extend or modify or build that new application. >> And new onboarding numbers, having numbers showing both. >> That's right. Now what that means from a revenue standpoint, it means, you know we got to double or triple our business next year. We're not talkin' a 10%, 15% growth. We're talking an order of magnitude growth for our part of the business. >> And so you'll be investing more in marketing, training, tools. >> All of the above, all of the above. >> Hey, companies want to get into the enterprise, and the existing enterprise suppliers want to stay in the enterprise. >> Exactly, exactly. >> John: So it's a good time to be an arms dealer. >> Exactly, and we'll supply it with the HANA Cloud Platform. >> John: Dan, thanks so much for sharing your insight here on theCube. Really appreciate it, and great to meet your team. >> As well. >> And everyone here has been fantastic. We are live, here in Orlando. The theme is live, here at SAP this year. And of course we got the live coverage from theCube. This is theCube, I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris. We'll be right back. You're watchin' theCube. (soft electronic music)