>> The Cube on cloud continues. We're here with Ana Pinczuk, who's the chief development officer at Anaplan, and we've been unpacking the future of cloud. We've heard from a number of CIOs how they're thinking about cloud in the coming decade. And first of all, Ana, welcome back to the Cube. Thanks for participating. It's great to see you again >> It's great to see you, Dave, and I'm so excited to be here with you again. So hopefully, we'll be doing this soon. >> I hope in 2021, we'll be able to be face-to-face >> Face-to-face, I know. >> and everybody out there, we miss you all. >> I know, I know. >> Now, Ana, in a lot of respects, you think about the CIO role, something that you're intimately familiar with, and it's unique, because she or he has a very wide observation space across the company. Whereas a GM or a business line manager, they're most concerned with their respective business, the CIO, they got to worry about the whole enchilada. And we've heard a lot in this program about digital transformation. We've heard a lot, of course, in the past couple of years. A lot of it was lip service, but digital transformation is no longer optional. What's changed, in your view, in the way that businesses are going about it? >> You know, Dave, from my perspective, it's interesting, and this year, in particular, has been really telling for us. So I think, before, many companies were thinking about, hey, I want to be online, I want to grow my revenues with digital, I want to have a presence. But what's happened, actually, this year, with COVID in particular, is that it's gone from being a good to have to really a fundamental necessity, we must have it. And so when I talk to CIOs today, they're really thinking about different kinds of things than before, not just going digital, but how do I enable my people to work remotely? I've got to enable that. How do I bring the agility and the flexibility that I need in our business, especially with these new ways of working? How do I look at business resiliency, not just from something happens and then how do I recover from it, but also how do I help our company and our people then actually spring forward and grow from where we are? So it's gone from a topic that was happening at the CIO, maybe at the business level, but now it's really also a fundamental CEO and board conversation, and so now we're seeing the CIOs having to present to boards what is our digital transformation, our digital strategy. >> So I wonder what you've seen in that regard. I'm interested in what role cloud plays in supporting those digital initiatives, but more specifically, cloud migration came off the charts in terms of interest 'cause of COVID, but you had those that were deep into cloud, had a lot of experience, and those maybe not as much. Are you seeing any kind of schism in the marketplace, where there's maybe a great advantage to those who really had years of experience, and maybe disadvantages to those who didn't, or is there an equilibrium you're seeing in the marketplace? How do you see that playing out? >> Yeah, what I'm seeing is that, I think there used to be a spectrum of CIOs, in effect, the ones that were a little bit forward, ahead on the cloud, both on cloud infrastructure as well as SaaS, and what are the services that we have, and then there were some that were really trying to think about what's the security implications of the cloud, and is it more expensive? So there was this spectrum of CIOs. And I think now what's happened is there's such a business imperative that I think CIOs are saying, "Look, I'm either going to survive in this new world with the agility and the flexibility that I need." And so cloud, I'm seeing a lot of CIOs really saying okay, cloud is not just fashionable, but it's in, and a necessity, and we must do it. And I think, frankly, the CIOs that don't embrace the cloud and that level of agility are going to struggle. It's really a personal imperative for a CIO, in addition to for the company. >> So a lot of times, we talk about the the three dimensions of people, process, and technology, and I'm interested in your thoughts on how cloud has affected those traditional structures and the value chains. You've got some people are really good at tech, some people are really good at people, some people are really good at process. Has the cloud affected that? Has it upended it, changed it in any way? >> Yeah, let's unpack that a little bit, Dave, 'cause if you think about process, one of the interesting things about the cloud is that- and if you think about the cloud as going all the way from IaaS, or infrastructure, all the way up this stack to actually providing business processes embedded in a SaaS service, then from a process perspective, and for CIOs, it's really upended how they think about business process re-engineering in their companies. If I think, even five years ago, where you would have a whole organization that's focused on business process re-engineering, you do that, it takes a long time, you get a consultant, maybe, to help you, and then you work through that process. If you look at a SaaS service like Anaplan today, where we- Our goal is, for example, to orchestrate business performance. We are a SaaS business planning platform. We've incorporated into our platform that business process, so the role of the CIO relative to business process, in effect, changes. Now it's about how to leverage a cloud infrastructure, and then how do you enable the customizations on top of that? But generally speaking, that's a lot easier than having to think about re-engineering the whole company. If you think about the technology stack, obviously, the cloud embeds a lot of technology in the cloud, so you have a lot of native services that are available to you. That is awesome from a talent perspective, because before, maybe you needed to have database experts or Kubernetes experts. And not that we don't need those today, but many of those capabilities come native in the cloud today. So, in effect, how it helps the CIO is to provide this ecosystem of talent embedded in what the cloud provider does. >> So I wonder, so let's stay on that for a minute. So I remember, before Amazon announced AWS in, was it 2006, a CIO said to me, "Yeah, I'm thinking about maybe I don't need to run my own email," (chuckles). And so- >> That's right, that was those days. >> And then, of course, it happens that we see the SaaSification of businesses, which, to your point, makes things simpler, in that I can focus on other areas, and not to worry about managing infrastructure to support apps. At the same time, you've had this proliferation of cloud. You mentioned, of course, that you're with Anaplan, you see, you got Workday, you got Salesforce, you got ServiceNow, Oracle apps, and people struggle. How do I get these things talking to others, they're worried about that data layer, so there's this new level of complexity. How do you see that playing out in the next decade? >> Yeah, and we used to say that we shift what we do at a certain level, and now, as an organization, we start to look at higher value outcomes. And so I see that happening, and you're absolutely right. The conversations that I have with customers now are, hey, there's things that are enabled by the cloud, and then on top of that, you need a set of APIs, or connectors, or ways to get data in and out of a particular system, or ways to link. In our case, we're linking with Salesforce, to Anaplan, to Workday, or other tools, and so you start to think more about the business outcome that you want. The CIO needs to be focused on that, instead of maybe the fundamentals of the technology. Those come for you. And then it's really more about the partnership with the business side, to say, okay, what is it that you're trying to do, and can I enable that through my cloud architecture, the Workdays, the Adobes, or the Salesforces of the world? So I think the conversation is changing. And from my perspective, what's really cool about that is it brings the CIO to, really makes the CIO, a business and thought leader, a strategic leader, because the IT shop is not just talking tech, the IT shop has to talk a lot more about the outcome that they're trying to deliver. >> So in the early days of cloud, I just want to pick up on what you just said, a lot of people in IT saw the cloud as a threat to their livelihoods, and I think I'm inferring from your statements that we're largely through that dynamic, and the CIOs are now really trying to make the cloud a platform for transformation, and monetization, or whatever other organizational goal, might be saving lives, or better government. Is that how you see it, that the role >> Look, I talk- >> Has changed to that? >> I know, I talk to so many companies, and we're still going through that transition, so I don't think we're completely over the hump of cloud all day, everywhere, but at the same time, I think what the CIO's really focused on these days is really around business agility and business outcomes for their partners. By the way, that's one of the things. The second thing, specially these days, is around people, collaboration, communication. How do we facilitate interaction of people, whether inside or outside of the company? And so that's a very different conversation for the CIO. It doesn't mean that we're not still having the basic conversation of how safe is the cloud, what security do you have built into the cloud? But I think, frankly, Dave, that we've crossed the chasm, where before it used to be, hey, I'm a lot more secure on prem, and given the tremendous focus that the cloud providers and SaaS companies have put on security, I see many more companies feeling very at ease, and in fact, telling their organizations we actually need to switch to the cloud, including large companies that have compliance issues, or large financial companies. Many of those are making that switch as well. >> Well, it's interesting, we could talk about security, but I think it's a two-edged sword, because I think a lot of, frankly, I think a lot of executives, early days, used security as a way to kick the can down the road. But the reality was the cloud, better or worse, you could make that argument, but it's different, and so different concerns people, but it's still, at the end of the day, bad security practices trump good security, and so that's what we've seen so many times, the shared responsibility model. And so people are still learning there. So security is almost this beast in and of itself. I'm interested in your thoughts on the priorities. Are customers, are they streamlining their tech investments? The major focus, as you pointed out, on cloud has been it's a driver of agility and shifting resources, as we talked about, but there's this constant cost pressure, the procurement, looking at the Amazon bill. Do you see a lot of the same going forward, or do you think the value equation is shifting such that there'll be, maybe, IT is less cost pressure? There's always going to be cost pressure, I know, but more value producer. >> I think you're right. I see it, and over the last six months I've seen it really accelerate, where CIOs are thinking about three things, and one is business resiliency, and when I talk about business resiliency, I talk about the ability to recover from crap that happens, whether it's pandemics or global events and shifts, that companies have to accommodate. So that's one thing that I see them thinking about. The second one that we talked about a little bit is just agility. I see them really focused on that, and the cloud enables that. And the third one in conversations is really speed to innovation, because when companies are talking to the cloud providers, and particularly SaaS companies, what I see them talking about is, look, I've got this particular need, and it would take me two years to do it with a legacy player because I've got to do this on prem, but you have the fundamentals built in, and I think I can do it with you in three months. So I think business resiliency, both to grow and to recover from stuff, agility, and innovation, are really three fundamental levers that I see for movement to the cloud. And any one of those that these days, it's funny, depending on who you talk to, any one of those can propel a CIO to make that choice, and when they have all of that together, they have a lot more lift, in effect, as a CIO. They have a lot more leverage in terms of what they can do for their companies. >> Well, let's stay on innovation. Innovation, I've said many times, in tech, for decades it came from Moore's Law. It seems so '90s to even say that, >> I know, I know. >> but it's true. So what's going to drive innovation in the coming years. I'm interested in your perspective on how machine intelligence, and AI, and ML, and cloud, of course, play into that innovation agenda? >> Yeah, it's interesting. I see it a lot in our business with Anaplan, innovation comes from the ability to bring in what you do internally and match it with what's available in the external world. And you mentioned it earlier, data. Data is like the new currency, that's like software eats the world, now we talk about data. And I think what's really going to drive innovation is being able to have access to the world's data. Once a company builds this digital DNA, this digital foundation, and is able to have access to that data, then you start to make decisions, you start to offer services, you start to bring intelligence that wasn't available before, and that's a really powerful thing for any company, whether you're doing forecasting and you need to bring the world's data, whether you are a agricultural company. And in these days, innovation comes in the form of speed, being able to just deliver something new to an audience faster. So to me, the cloud enables all of that, the ability to bring in data. And then on top of that, think about all the AIML innovation that's happening around the world. We just launched an offer, actually, to be able to do forecasting, intelligent forecasting, on top of the cloud. We partner with AWS Forecast for that. If we didn't have a cloud platform to do that, and a set of APIs, being digital that way really enables us the opportunity to match, one plus one equals 100, really, and bring in the power of that to get two companies together to be able to enable that type of innovation. >> Well, that's interesting. It reminds me of, one of my friends, Ed Walsh, is the CEO of a new startup called ChaosSearch, and he used this statement, he said, "We're standing on the shoulders of the giants. We're not trying to recreate it." And I think what you just said is the same thing. You're relying on others to build out cloud infrastructure. >> Totally. >> So here's a totally left-field question. When you hear all the talks about breaking up big tech, I wonder, is that irrelevant to you because you figured, okay, the cloud's going to be there, it's maybe more about search, or it's about Facebook, or Amazon's dominance. Interestingly, Microsoft's really not in those discussions anymore. They were the center of it back in the '90's. >> I know, I know. >> But as the head of development for a company, does that even factor into the equation, or do you just not worry about that? >> I'll be honest, for me personally, what I do is I compartmentalize my world. In a sense, I view the partnerships, and we have partnerships with Google, and AWS, and Microsoft, and others, so I view those as part of an opportunity to really provide an ecosystem set of solutions to customers, and those are very powerful. I think those partnerships enable companies like ours, like SaaS companies, to innovate faster. And so I compartmentalize, and I say those things are wonderful, I don't know why you would want to break up those companies. At the same time, part of what you're referring to has to do with more the social and the consumer elements of what's going on. But as a business leader, I really focus on what the power is, and particularly in the enterprise, what is it that we can do for global enterprise companies? And at least in my mind, those two things tend to be separate. >> A couple of things you said there that triggered my mind. One was ecosystems. We've been talking about data. One of our guests in this program, Allen Nance, has been talking about ecosystems and the power of ecosystems, and I definitely see cloud as a platform to allow data-sharing across those clouds and then to form ecosystems and share data in ways that we really couldn't have half a decade, or even longer ago. And that seems to be where a lot of the innovation is going to occur. Some of the people talk about the flywheel effect, but it's the power of many versus the resources of a few. >> And I'm such a big believer in the ecosystem play, and part of that is because, frankly, even over the last 20 years, the skills that are required and the knowledge that is required is so specialized, Dave, if you think about AIML and all the algorithms that we need to know and the innovation that's happening there, and so I really don't think that there's any one company that can serve a customer alone. And if you think about it from a customer perspective, their business is made up of needs from a lot of different parties that they're putting together to accommodate their business outcome, and so the only way to play, right now, in tech, is in a collaborative way, in an ecosystem way. I think the more that companies like ours work with other companies on these partnerships, and frankly, by the way, I think in the past, many companies that have made bold announcements and they would say, oh, I'm partnering with so-and-so, and I've got this great partnership, and then nothing would happen (laughs). It was just a lot of talk. But I think what's actually happening now, and it's enabled by the cloud, is we have much more of a show me culture. We can actually say, okay, well, let's say, Anaplan is partnering with Google, show me, show me what you're actually doing. And I see our customers asking for references of how these ecosystem partnerships are playing. And because these stories are out there more, I think partnerships are actually much more feasible, and real, and pragmatic. >> Yeah, Ana, we call those barney deals, I love you, you love me, we do a press release, and then nothing ever happens. >> That's right, that's right. And I think that's not going to work going forward, Dave. People are asking for a lot more transparency, and so when we think about ecosystems, they really want the meat on the bone. They don't want just announcements that don't really help their business move forward. >> Yeah, and the other thing too, we come back to data, it's always coming back to data, every conversation, but the data that's created out of that ecosystem is going to throw off new capabilities, and new data products, data services, and that, to me, is a really exciting new chapter, I think, of cloud. >> Yeah, and it's interesting, the conversations I'm having now are about data, and believe it or not, also about metadata, because people are trying to analyze what's happening among cloud providers, what are customers doing with the data, how are they using data, how often are they accessing data. Security, from that perspective, looking at who's accessing what. So the data conversation and the metadata conversation are truly enabled by the cloud, and they're key. And they weren't that easy to do in a prior legacy environment. >> It's a great point, I'm glad you brought that up, because in a legacy environment, all that metadata, that data about the data, is locked inside of these systems, and if you're going to go across clouds, and you're going to have it secure and governed, you've got to have that metadata visibility and a point of control that actually you can see that and can manage it, so thank you for that point. And thank you, Ana, for coming on the Cube and participating in the Cube on Cloud. It's been great having you. >> Thank you so much for having me, it's been a pleasure. >> All right, keep it right there, everybody. More from the Cube on Cloud right after this short break. (bouncy music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering magenta. Imagine twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin at Imagine, twenty nineteen from the Wynn Las Vegas. It's happy hour here, but I really wish I had a Coke. I don't have one. But I do have a gentleman from Coca Cola, please doing me and welcoming a couple of guests to the Cube. We have Enrique no great day. The director of Direct to Consumer for Coca Cola Mexico. Enrique, Thank you for joining us. >> Thanks, Lisa. Nice to meet you. >> And we have from forty for Raghu Kerala managing partner. Welcome to >> the Cube. You nailed the name. There you go. Talk >> to >> that interview. I did my best. All right, so here we are in imagine, twenty nineteen with about thirty, five hundred or so people. This show is one that has a tremendous amount of energy. It's like you gave everybody a cook when they walked in the door. Didn't really need it, But we've heard a tremendous amount of positivity people very excited for being able to leverage the power of data to deliver really impactful experiences and as consumers of any product. We want a brand to know us. We want them to help us make our lives better. Before we dig into that with Coca Cola, argue, let's start with you. Forty four is one of magenta owes partners. Give us a little bit of a history there on what you guys do, together with the Gento and four customers like Coca Cola, Mexico. >> Thank you, Lisa, and thank you for inviting us here today. Well, when we put together forty four, we ask yourself some questions like, How do we aspire to be great? And one of the things was to surround ourselves with great partners and adobes definitely been a great partner for us, because what we want to do is bring tea to our customers. A not just a sight but an experience for their consumers. They can live on and grow and invest in a platform. And what we found with Adobe and the Magenta Commerce cloud was a way that we could start building something in an array, tours greatness by using data and insights to build upon our knowledge. And luckily, way found a great partner in Coca Cola that we could aspire to be great together to the end. Consumer e commerce is still in this early days, and what we wanted to say is that a great brand could start and start looking at e commerce in a way to improve their customers. Lives be available in moments that of need and moments of want. And that's something we started doing with North America about four years ago and brought that to Western Europe. And now Lat Ham in the last year has been a great experience partnering with you. >> CocaCola is a brand that everybody knows globally. It's one of those almost feel good brands, right? I mean, you just can't help but get a smile on your face when somebody asked If you want a cup full, of course, who would say no to that? Give me a little lemon twist and I'm very happy, but something that you guys are doing together with Coca Cola. Mexico was really inspirational, and it's really helping to transform and improve people's lives. And we could talk to us about the program that you're building with forty four and how it's actually making giving people access to things that they don't just want that they actually need, like, quality of life, type of sure products. >> So thanks. Thanks a lot, Lisa, for the invitations. So first of all, you know, we have a big challenge, because way No, we have a great brand way, actually have a lot of brands, and that's the challenge. So how can we create this? The solution where we can access people to this? Never. It's for life. So it's not only Coke way have a lot of different products, and Wei have in Mexico is that it's, ah, project that we are calling Coca Cola. It's Coke at home on what we do there is. We are providing the consumers a subscription model where we are enabling the access to multiple beverage products any time on everywhere. So that's that's That's the ambition we have we launched last year in the city of Monterrey. It's It's our first city. We are planning to scale this business into the whole country and probably Latin America. First on, why not probably the states on some foreseeable future. >> So this is more than on demand. I live in Silicon Valley, where we're pretty, you know, we have high expectations and I want to order something, whether it's on door dash or through Google expressed our Amazon that I wanted to show up within an hour. But that's, you know, I might be lazy, that I don't actually want to get in my car and driver walk somewhere. But what you're talking about this is this is not just I want Coca Cola products on demand. This is actually reaching people that really have a strong and need for this type of service. Talk to us about that human interaction and what you guys are really enabling there for your consumers. >> Sure, so So, yeah, United. So the thing is, what we see, the big opportunity here is way. Want to be closer to our consumers? We went to understand them. We want to to hear from them, to receive feedback directly back the way we are used to working Coca Cola in the past one hundred and thirty three years that that's a history of cardiac alights way have the customers that interact with consumers, and then we get some information from the consumers. We've been great doing marketing campaigns, you know. But right now the challenge that we're facing is we want to have direct feedback from them. So we're creating this eco system where we are getting feedback. We're getting knowledge from them, and we know exactly what what's their their needs. The pain points, their suffering, Andi the way what we can solve them and probably eventually some future products. But we can create for them with the specific necessities that they have. So that's what we're creating there. That's a big thing. >> And so we're gonna talk to us about the opportunity to work with a brand like Coca Cola that's been around for over one hundred thirty years, talk about transformation and be able to enable them to really kind of not just delight customers. But there's an emotional connection that people >> have this products. So we always say, like ideally done way can add value from the state of desire to the state of consumption, and in between is a transaction. It's fulfillment, its operations and perhaps unique to most clients of, um, Magenta and Adobe. Coca Cola in Mexico owns a full relationship, and it's a full branded piece from creating that desire in your heart in your mind in your taste buds, but then owning that all the way through the delivery trucks and the people delivering it to your door. And that's something that a CPD firm just actually, I'm not sure of any other CPV firm does in the US or in Mexico at this point. And but then what is the excellence mean? We haven't untidy of excellence of what Coke means to us, the nostalgia and what it means today. But that also raises the high bar because we're not allowed to not be excellent at any other touch point of the brand. But definitely it's fun, right? It's a challenge, you know, making money online. That's the easy part, Being really proud of what you're doing online. That's kind of what makes you go to work every day. >> Being relevant for consumers is what, yeah, >> being relevant? Absolutely, especially because there's a lot of choice with most products and services that are available to us as consumers these days. And if you think of you know, we've been talking a lot at this event about the customer experience and customer experience management, and how can Adobe Inn Magenta enable their customers to use data to understand what delivering what my customer wants to improve. Whether it's, you know, we talked to HP Inc this morning allowing me to order a new PC or printed or ink and have it delivered specifically exactly the way that I wanted to. Whether it's, you know, getting a Coca Cola. I want whoever I'm interacting with to give you a seamless experience. But use the data that you're collecting about me to make my life better. Make my life easier, more seamless. Frictionless. How are you guys at forty for helping Enrique and team utilize that data too crude to really enhance this consumer experience and maybe even create more brand loyalty? Yeah, it's >> interesting. I think data is a tool, but then your hypothesis, where you go from has to be endemic to the brand and for Coca Cola. On the internal, we think of it as a portfolio portfolio of different products in different needs states from hydration to enjoyment from special moments to everyday moments. But then that allows you to start thinking, How do I be part relevant part of more moments and then you could say, Where does data fit into that and now I can understand how there's a new moments being made because people's lives change and the youth always find different ways in different ways of living in different way from being. How can we be relevant to them through our throughout all of that, from the moment you wake up in what you need state is there to special moment of happiness, and they have a company that has products that could live up to. All of that is great and you know you need a portfolio. But you also need to being desire and wanted need all together in one thing, because one person has all of that and one company came, fulfill it if you think about it from a idea of moment. But then what data? Khun, Due to bring those to life >> so soon being relevant, continuing to be relevant is challenging. It's going to require you to really look at trends across a spectrum of, say, consumer behaviors. Enrique, what are some of the trends that you guys are seeing with this project that you've launched in Mexico, and how were you going to be using those trends to expand this globally? >> Sure, Yeah, So? So first of all, as you, as you know, probably e commerce in Mexico is is quite a small right now. So the thing is, it's growing in, you know, very aggressive rates on DH. It happens the same in the rest of Latin America countries. So what What other retailers are looking at is they want to create this this big business right now because they know that in the future it's going to be the competitive advantage for them. So So I think that's something that not many sippy jeez are looking at. There's a lot off are things that must happen inside the companies to enable this on DH. In my experience, the most challenging things and it's not a trend, but it's it's a challenge that we face us as a big city. Gee, Cos is how can we change the culture inside the company? Because this is the main barrier we have. We face when we see and I I'm going to give you the example of Mexico when we see the digital sales of the beverage in Mexico, it comes about two point five percent of the total sales that we have so its its really small if you compare it to the rest of the retail. So whenever we go to the to the rest of the corporation and the rest of the building in Mexico, we say that we want in best, and we want to do there's there's a lot of barriers, you know on the challenge, the main challenge that we face right now. The's companies that want to go direct ical Sumer is this is happen. We changed the mindset, change the culture, and I think that's the most relevant. It's no trend, but it's It's the most relevant challenge that we're facing right now, >> a big challenge because not just for for every convict, but a company with the history that Coca Cola has to be able to start leveraging that data to start to change mindsets and ship cultures. Where are you guys on that journey? And how is your partnership with forty four may be a facilitator of that cultural change? >> Yeah, sure, So it's to be really honest. We're we're beginning this journey way have some countries that are ahead of us. We have some examples in China, For example, curriculum, China's great things cortical in North America is doing very big things in Mexico and Latin America. We're starting the journey on the thing. What we realized is that we need to get together with people that know of this matter. Way are really good at marketing. We're really good at a commercial approach. Operational approach ware not the best at the commerce, but we. That's why we are partnering with guys that no one, we're partnering with platforms like Adobe Magenta, too. To achieve this, that's that's the thing, right? >> Yeah, >> Rookie will finish with you. What are some of the things that you have seen and heard at? Imagine twenty nineteen from a technology innovation perspective that give you the confidence that adobe in Magenta Technologies are going to be able to deliver, what it is that Enrique and his team need to make that barrier change internal evaporate. Yeah, >> I mean, I think when you think of technology right now, even within adobes, it's what the combination of different products that adobe has and how they're going to come together. So the roadmap is a critical piece of it. I think there's been a great announcement of Sensei's coming in and being part of the core offering to make each interaction a little smarter, but also really see the payoff and save what's the real need that trying to be solved, then back that into the products that you see to cut between the different between a press release and a road map? And I think when you come to a summit like this, you hear things from Adobe. But then you also hear the reactions from the customers. And if you hear those both at the same time, you find that great thing in the middle >> of >> what's actionable. And I think if you think of only customer opinions or the what the platform says individually, I think they're less relevant than finding that really time reaction to trends and say, Honestly, sometimes you're drowning in technology and you wantto move the business forward and react to that weak sales that month's numbers. But then you say, Well, let me take a step back and look at the road map or vice versa, and I think everybody's in different stages of where they're going. So until you get that wisdom from everybody else, anyone announcement might be might take you off course. But then you start saying other people are in my boat. Other people are filling my opportunity, sent my sense of opportunity, and other people are feeling my sense of pain. And it's great to see a community come together. It's five thousand people that all want to accomplish something different things, but they want to accomplish success. Whatever. However, they personally define it. >> And it is to your point. It's a very, very strong community here. But we thank you both so much for taking the time to share with us what you guys are doing together with Coca Cola run that everybody knows and loves. So I say we go get a cookie cola and wrap this segment. What do you think you're all right? >> Moment is coming. >> Fantastic. You're watching the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin from Imagine, twenty nineteen from the Wynn Las Vegas. Thanks for watching

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering magenta. Imagine twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Adobe. >> Hi, Welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with Jeff Rick at Imagine twenty nineteen at the Wind, Los Vegas Talking all about e commerce, innovation and technology. Consumer changes. All that good stuff. Joining us next is Adam Justice, the director of product marketing for the Adobe Experience about Adam. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having me. Thank you. >> This is a really high energy event. >> It is >> all days palpable, but I think it might be partly because there's a lot of orange here. It's a pretty energizing color. People have had very interesting entrances and exits on stage, coming from above and below. We've heard a lot of great testimonials from partners, customers, Dobie, folks, the gentle folks. Customer experience is critical to any product. Any service retailer, big or small. So true. Talk to us about you've been with Adobe for a long time. Talk to us about were perspective. The essentials Really good customer experience. Management? >> Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks for the question. It's great to be here, so and don't >> be. We've really >> evolved. I think as sort of the needs and rolls of our customers have. And I think the primary motivator for their evolution has been the customer customer itself. And whereas it used to be enough for us to think about, we're going to provide winning product or a service. All of us can agree, and it's easy for us to, and it's easy for us to agree now because we're all a focus group of one. >> We know what >> we like. We like an experience that actually feels like it's worth having. It's not enough to just put a product or a service out there. It needs to feel like something that actually not only feels natural, but it feels additive to our lives in some way. And so what was once sort of ah, relatively sir straight forward product development process or promotional process now is very much about how we addressing the needs of the consumer in a way that it is holistic, that respects the channels, that they want to interact with our brand on that respects the devices through which they want to either consumer product or research. Our product so it will be, is really trying to sort >> of >> understand the dynamics of the market today and bring solutions to the customers who now have this broader sort of stewardship. And I would say the things that we're seeing that our core to that our first, you're not going to deliver a meaningful experience to a customer unless you understand that customer and understanding that customer largely now comes down to data and a lot of fix will feel like, Well, that certainly seems logical that were awash in data. How do we actually get to the point where the data is telling us the story so we can leverage that information than tell a brand story till some kind of present a compelling experience? And then you add to that the dynamics, obviously right now about and entirely justifiable concerns about my privacy and the regulations there. Adobes going directly at that. With it, it'LL be experienced platform in order to effectively coalesce a meaningful point of view or sort of representation of off the customer in a way that respects their privacy. That un experienced steward can then look at that and say, Not only do I understand who this person is, but I have context and an understanding of what it is they're looking for. What is their intent? What is the context of this interaction now? So I can present a meaningful experience that obviously gets you part of the way. And but then knowing is only half the battle, right? Maybe not even half. Then you actually have to kind of rally around. Well, what, uh, what tools and content do we have at our disposal to ultimately present a compelling experience? You know what it will be? We like to say that emotion is the currency of experience. And if you're not actually leveraging meaningful content and presenting it in context and you're not going to evoke an emotion that is worth evoking, so definitely have the data piece than the content piece. But I would also add, and you've probably had other people sitting in this seat talking about how the complexity of all that has certainly exceeded now the capacity of at least my brain to manage in a singular sort of engagement with a customer, let alone at scale millions of times a day. So the role of artificial intelligence and machine learning now is so corps I would think that it's absolutely kind of. It's sort of the gearbox that's that's turning at the center of the data on one hand, the content and elements, the assets, the offer's on the other that allows for ultimately the coalescing of those things and then the delivery of an experience worth having. So that may have been like a two dollar answer Teo Two Cent question. But really, I feel like that's sort of the component pieces that we're seeing at play and sort of adobes motivation. And going into that space that came out where we're >> to Dhobi sounded a couple weeks ago. I can't keep track of things. Couple weeks go on Guy found it really interesting, especially with adobes roots really in the content generation side, right, all the way back to the creatives and the creators of that great content. And now to be a Liza sophistication of the tools to a B tests. I think best buy was on stage and they did four million or forty million customized email. So now you know, take this great creative A be tested to the degree again using the data and the contacts and the in the knowledge of what those customers are all about. And now it seems like the magenta piece is kind of the icing on the cake. Teo actually have the ability to get the transaction. Associate it with all this other process. Teo, bring the cash register, if you will. >> You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Adobe. When we when we executed sort of what we announced our intent to to acquire, we were talking about How does it'LL be? Facilitator? Help every experience become shop a ble and every moment personal And really that was That was a claim we couldn't make without without the magenta piece. So it is absolutely, um it's a hand in glove relationship. And now, especially as we've all evolved as consumers, I mean to imagine that we would be subscribing to socks or that we could one click purchase just about anything >> you need, the >> technology that can kind of keep pace with the expectations. And that's what it's all about because so many of those experiences that Adobe is intent on enabling our customers to present s >> so many of them culminate in a transaction >> of some sort. So the magenta is absolutely not only the icing on the cake, which I think is that it's a great metaphor, but it's also so integral right now, it's becoming like a fundamental or elemental part of what >> we're trying to accomplish, right. >> So delivering this comprehensive customer experience, managing our analytics, advertising, marketing, commerce the one thing that when you were kind of describing the core components of customer experience management again thinking is time. Because as consumers, we have so much choice. And if we meet friction at any point along the way, we're gonna churn it. We're gonna find somebody else who's gonna be able to deliver this product or service right. And unless in a frictionless way. So when you were talking about a I, for example, I was thinking comment on how that Khun B. Leverage to be able to facilitate that Justin Time shop, a ble experience that converts to a sale that is able to do so in a way that's personable, personalized to the customer experience and taking that inside to go. Right now, there's an action that Lisa just took. We've gotta offer this right now, >> right? Well, you know, that's one of things that I absolutely love about customer experience management. Sieck Sam Neill here issues the acronym. In >> a way, I >> just I kind of loved the absurdity of it, right. I mean, when you think of the scale to say something like, we're going to make every experience, shop a bowl and every moment personal, it's just, uh it's scope of that. And to imagine that that's possible is almost absurd. But when you introduce the advancements that we're seeing in artificial intelligence and machine learning now, it's literally going from the absurd of from the realm of science fiction into very real. It's and that's where What what adobes looking at, like, How can we literally take some sort of statement like we're going to personalize experiences at every across the customer journey? We're going to do it at scale and in real time you think you brought up the component of of real time and really, unless you're considering how we're going to meet the needs of the customer in the moment that they're expressing that need, then it's really moved. So it and it is absolutely artificial intelligence and machine learning that we're seeing sort of expressed now across the Adobe Experience cloud that are making that happen in in multiple ways. One of the ways would be simply by shortening that span between sort of the late genius that marketers are walking around in their heads and actual execution. So how can we kind of take the work some of the friction out of the work flows that allow them to translate their ideas in tow offers? And another place would be, How do we shorten the space between a signal that we get saying behavioral data that we see show up either in a nap or on a on a website, and then turn through all of the possibilities of what we could present? Apply algorithms to kind of determine what is the next best offer next best experience, and then present that >> in a way that actually >> feels, if not really time pretty close to it? And that would not be possible without without artificial intelligence at Adobe, our product in that space that we references Adobe Sensei's So you'LL hear us talk about Adobe Sense, say, and that's it's kind of the the umbrella that stretches around the different elements that I was talking about so >> interesting how just have the expectation game has changed and actually now being enabled by the technology under the covers because they used to be right. We made decisions based on a sampling of the data after the fact. Right now, the expectation is, I want to make a decision based on all the data or is close to all those I can get in near real time, real time, defined as enough time to do something about it, which is a completely different way to attack that problem and really change the expectation Gay. But that is the expectation game now from customers who are hoping that thing shows up. That's supposed to show up because it's really what I'm interested in now. And can't you figure that out based on all my activity? That's right. >> In fact, I was I was just having conversations with my children, and it kind of blows my mind there. They literally wonder why, when we order something on Amazon, it's not there, like within an hour to didn't Didn't we just buy that? And interestingly, in some in some markets now you're almost in a point where that's actually reality and So the fact that we've witnessed in such a short time frame this this kind of realization in this new reality, it is absolutely It's absolutely fascinating to observe it. We can only kind of blame and congratulate ourselves. Right is consumers for pushing these expectations, But now brands are doing everything they can to come Teo to keep up with. But I think one of the magical things that we're >> still we're still surprised and delighted on a regular >> basis. And that's one of the things that I love about Adobe and our ability to sort of Teo. Activate the things that that marketers and people who are responsible for customer spirit experience know that they want to dio. We're giving them tools now where it's actually not only a reality to respond in these incredibly short time frames, >> but do it in a way that could be >> super creative and and breakthrough or differentiate, which is a It's a It's a meaningful requirement for brands today to be able to do all of that stuff, but do it in a way that >> is unlike their peers, exactly like we were talking about before, when you have so much choices a consumer, especially for certain types of products that are commodities. If it's not in a way that's differentiated and unique, I'm going to go somewhere else. Where I could find that experience really kind of connects with me on whatever level, whatever the product of services be able to create that creative, unique experience. And we were talking with Jason about what was announced this morning with Adobe Sales Channel on the Adobe branded storefront and being able to give merchants even within Sorry, not Adobe Alice on been talking for hours, giving them the ability, say, within an Amazon marketplace to be elevator brand a little bit, make it a little bit more unique. So they had a little bit of an edge and maybe expressed some brand creativity within that platform. >> Right? I really do appreciate that element of of of what we're doing, having come from kind of an advertising background myself, where you know that you're the mental band with you get with anyone is so limited, and the opportunity to differentiate is you have to grab it when it presents itself. And so, in order to weigh risk to becomes like overly scientific about this indefinitely. There's there's so much science involved with it now. But we can't forget the art. We can't forget the opportunity to literally tio take that those even those minor elements. And sometimes it's the signals that we get that say someone is prepared, are interested in this type of experience. But then how do we make that experience not feel surgical, but rather actually impressive and emotionally even on? So that's one of things that I love about Adobe. We really do try and embrace push forward on the science aspect. But respect the fact that a lot of brand building and a lot of meaningful experiences that we have are absolutely also rooted in the art. So >> that's a great point. It's really helping customers kind of fine tune and dialled the art with the science. Your park marketing guy. What may be a favorite customer example that shows a customer that's really been able to leverage the data, the creativity to deliver differentiated brand millionaire, their customers, anything come to mind in particular? >> Well, certainly there's, you know, there's there's so many I I feel like for me, the operative when I really feel impacted by a brand. Sometimes it's when I break out of sort of the mundane or I get to go, wanna get I get to go on vacation with my family and I feel like, interestingly just going to AA remote locale. Sometimes it can either be magical or can be like, Ah, horror show, right? But the way brands like Marriott Starwood married Bon voy. Now the way that they're there, they're embracing the opportunity to sort of bring technology in a way that that feels very additives but almost transparent to where now you're actually you, Khun, Ifyou're based on your loyalty program and you have the right app on your phone, you can walk straight to the door and unlock the room. I mean, that's that's huge. And it takes something that could've like that might have been one of the bigger friction points, like standing in a line to check in, >> and it just makes it fluid. It makes it feel >> like, you know, this is the type of experience that I want tohave, but I'm just getting things done and things feel good and the opportunity for a brand to go in and sort of think about Where are those points where I might be introducing friction rather than feel good and being able to remove those and have technology do it in a transparent way? I think is really it's really impressive. >> It could be absolutely transformational. Absolutely for sure. It's such a good >> example of just kind of twisting the lens, you know, the check in process. Who would ever think we're not going to change the check in process? It's a check in process, but for some would actually you'LL Wait a minute, That is, that is, that is of their whole experience of their time with us. You're family for a couple three, four days. You know, that is a major for friction point. You're tired. Just got in from the airport, you know, the kids were hungry. You just want to drop your bags and then the stand in line. So So they used technology to redefine that little piece of that whole week that you're spending that property is really creative. Before you even get to the technology enablement to make it so >> or or take, for example, one of the most painful things that can happen and travel when you're on a flight that's delayed or cancelled. And then not only are you dealing then with just kind of the emotional duress of of having to re calculate everything, but then >> you have to stand in line forever. But now you >> can pull out your app and at your fingertips you have potential. You have the opportunity to be recognized as I'm this passenger. I have this sort of status. Here are our alternatives and being able to sort of take control or engage in that way that that that that leverages technology to again sort of remove friction and add solution. I >> just think >> we're really at the tip of the iceberg in the way that we're going to see this type of technology infusing into things that we feel are more pure experience than just marketing in campaigns. >> Exciting, exciting times. Adam, thank you so much for joining me on the Cuban sound implosion. Look forward to hearing lots of great things to come and really helping to drive his experiences with the art and the science. Indeed. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Thanks >> for Jeff. Rick. I'm Lisa Martin. Coming to you live from Imagine twenty nineteen at the Wynn Las Vegas. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Day two of live coverage of the Cube here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Career with Jeff Brick, Our next guest needing Stallman, managing director of a Censure Interactive. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> You can't miss your booth when you walk in. Got a nice set up there. You guys got a big prominent location to show. Tell us about Ascension Interactive. And what you guys doing the show? >> Oh, yeah. So thanks again for having us is a great a great summit. A great conference. It's one of our big kind of showcases for the year. We've got a couple of different experiences Were demo ing this year. We've got some really cool X are experiences that people are coming by the booth and putting device is on and it really interacting with and having fun with. We've got some interesting topics around Trends in content creation, headless content, train three D, etcetera. So some great topix around kind of Howard disrupting marketing and content with our clients today. >> Contest becomes so important now, Not only is it you have content development creatives. You have all kinds of applications now. Integrating was once kind of a cottage industry of creative doing cool stuff. Now that's kind of table stakes. It's a whole another level of cloud computing meets creative, so it's kind of an interesting growth curve right now, you're seeing a lot of adoption, a lot of the kind of tools from Tech in with the creative talk about that dynamic, because that's kind of the whole show here. It's all about not just marketing Cloud, and it's about creative experiences and now the new cool stuff out there and people try to figure out how to do it. I want that dynamic of creative tech coming together. >> Yeah, it's enemy from Accenture Interactive. That's really kind of where we've built our business around having that as a technology company that's really drawing a lot of specific talent to build out that creative tak kind of talent mindset. It's a different way of kind of operating and working and building those experiences, so we're kind of first and foremost and experience agency S O. We're all about building experiences for our clients, and it's a kind of ah maybe unique patch that we've we've carved out for ourselves. To say you have to consider technology is part of it and data and effectiveness and analytics. But then, actually, how do you build experiences that are really engage our customers and be really innovative? So certainly has its center at interactive. That's our That's our remit. And we're working out some really exciting work with clients in that area >> about the difference between center interactive and century proper. Because we've done a lot of enemies with center you guys, we're different talked about. The difference is that you guys have and what what's your mission? >> So it's enter. Active are first and foremost. We are an experience agencies. So again, those experiences could be everything from your typical kind of website experience. And how do you best in engage consumers at your site to commerce? Teo X are so we've got a Z mentioned it, several different applications of experiences and x r that we're demo ing here, and we're working on with our clients, um, a R V r as well as sale stools. So in the centre interactive, we take it, we take a creator first, like what is the experience. We really need to build, do the right type of research and then bring in the design, talent and the unique kind of optimization, talent and technology talent to be able to ensure that whatever we're building for a client is actually scaleable for more than just kind of that one exciting news case they've got. But how do you ensure that that's really going to be the right platform in experience? They can scale for other parts of the enterprise of the parts of the business, etcetera. We're proud of who we are >> seriously, because you guys are involved in a lot of things. You keep saying x r for extended reality, and I think it's interesting because some people think it's got to be one hundred percent immersive or not. But if you guys air pioneering, this is a lot of places to kind of extend reality. Blend the rial and the C g. I. And it kind of had this mixed combo experience. So where people using that what are some of the interesting opportunities beyond no trying on a dress from the computer with your with your avatar that you guys are working on >> right, So so definitely have our share of kind of cool consumer experiences and, you know, wanting interesting. That's things that's happening in the market is consumers. They're expecting as they start to engage with RVR, even like immersive commerce. And, um, you're online configurations for shopping and it kind of configuring your own products. They're expecting the same level of, like, hi and visualization that they're getting in the programs and media that they're consuming at home. So getting that right is that's That's a challenge for a lot of brands, and it's a challenge. And technologies, they're changing pretty rapidly to support that. So we've got an experience here were demo ing this week, which is is really on kind of that high end past, which is allowing your design your own your own bathroom experience with countertops, and it's so realistic that you can literally you feel like you could touch that. You could appreciate the textures. You can touch the experience. So it's it's really helping to kind of give customers give consumers back control, but they don't have to rely on a contractor and other types of design services. They really have many options. They can see what that looks like in their own space. I can do that from the convenience of my home, etcetera, and that's kind of one end around. And it's still consumer facing and how to brands create more amorous of shopping experience and make that pass to purchase easier, effective, faster like and, you know, close well. The other types of experiences that I think you're really, really powerful and really interesting is it's starting to use x r for training purposes. So we just want to go home. Oh, actually at Mobile World Congress for PR experience that we built to train foster care professionals on go on making incredibly complicated is around what to do with families and children and really trained them. So how do you take a very subjective experience and train people for the different scenarios to make the right judgment calls? And so that's an interesting kind of application of X r. We're also doing X are in the field of service service technician, so working on automotives and ensuring your using hand, our virtual technology to be able Tio I understand, is that the right party should be working on and what are the best practices around around, whether it's a home technician that's going out and trying to install our complex device or working at an automotive so >> so practical use cases. And then there's also the glamorous ones, like Game of Thrones. Talk about you guys. The relationship with game of thrones is a dynamic. Their share want the shows so that the Cube we Go game of thrones fan. So you guys were somewhat involved in that Such share. >> Yeah, so on. And it's very timely. Obviously, with the final season coming out of the fourteenth, and for like, super fans like myself, it's It's been an exciting year for us. So, um, Extension Interactive has done a very deliberate Siri's of acquisitions over the past ten years, and last year we acquired MCA Vision. So Maga Vision was renowned internationally for their CD I and special effects work on DH. No. One of the most exciting words they've received is an Emmy for outstanding visual effects for game of thrones. So So you got a lot of buzz at the time saying, What is extension interactive? What's what's the kind of thought process, their game of thrones, visual effects, and it really was all about this idea of, you know, again, consumers are expecting this level of visual and this level of experience in how they're interacting with you. So, Mac, a vision was a very we needed a way to be more innovative and how we're bringing the right talent and capabilities to building X. Our experiences, product configurations, etcetera and maka vision had unique capability around three visualisation CG I visual effects and really that again, that whole package of kind of art and technology to create these very high end visualization experiences. So So it's been a really exciting here for us. Um, and starting to now take that model and start to bring that Teo marketing teams that were working within the brands e commerce teams and starting to say, How do we create these type of >> bond? That >> it's It's a nice looking the MCA vision sight and and some of the you know, they have some of the cool movie stuff. But I was fascinated by the car stuff, right? They have these beautiful car shots for car commercials, and I'm curious after hearing about, you know, a be testing and you know all the things that you could do with your experience in the dental experience. Interactive are seeing that now with I got forty seven versions of that car commercial because now if I'm doing it with Mac Division, I don't have to shoot forty seven versions. I can manipulate the CG I car in a very different way because I know that you said super high gloss, super high glam. But it's programmable, so you can do stuff with it without having to call the team together and hope for a beautiful day in Carmel to go over the bridge. >> Exactly all those variables. So I mean brands right now, as they're trying to kind of create trying tio react and set up models to support hyper personalization programmatic content in it that is so challenging. It's so challenging because traditional >> means of >> going out and doing the shoot that you're talking about and doing. Even product shots and tons of photography like you have to create so many versions so expensive to be able to support all of your products. All the variations when you put global into the mix and you've got different labels and different languages etcetera. So, again, it's a It's a scale problem today. I think a lot of people think it's a technology problem, but it's actually it's actually that that's a solution. But it's definitely it's a human problem. And so in our practice, we focus on content creation models. And so this is why Macrovision acquisition so essential is we were disrupting the way continents created, whether it's for brands and their their commercial spots or it's their commerce content. Or or there social media content. By using this idea of taking a digital twin of, let's say, the Mercedes or the Mercedes car and being able to take engineering data and visualize a product digitally before it even exists before I mean literally, the prototype is not available. You know this amazing flexibility. Teo certainly configure that in many different ways, digitally. For these shoots, all you need is some some background in Madrid, etcetera, to be able to roll the car through, um, and Tamar and Magic. But you're able, Tio, you're now able Teo, represent that product, get your media created and put it into market to start generating buzz presales, et cetera. I mean, that's that's so powerful. You're getting ahead of product launch. >> How did how are the cost dynamics changing? Because before you said, it's expensive to do is shoot Yes, but now you can do multiple flavors within the computer is just radically different economics, because I'm sure when they come in and say, I want you guys to game of thrones I want that kind of production value like, yeah, that's really the expectancy. Yeah, To do it in software is a completely different kind of approach. >> I mean, I don't know how brands are not going to give it to this model because they cannot possibly they cannot. They're goingto exponential cross to be able Teo, keep pace with again, even just the variation of product, much less starting to now. Personalize that or be ableto dynamically. Render that so. The cost model today is is is exorbitant, and it's just growing. And so this because you're now able to configure things digitally and again used the right tools to be able tio represent different versions of product changed. The backgrounds, change, change, any of the factors that you need to be able to say this is a new piece of content that. I think it's better targeted at this segment. You want to test that out a little bit. I don't want to kind of double down on that and ending for all of that cost to go do this. You gives you a ton of flexibility, especially, and how you're bringing you no talent in wants to shoot it once and then and that enviable to swap. For example, I may change the bracelet on the talent to do five different ads out instead of >> risk management to a swells testing. Knowing what you're looking at, getsem visibility into what success looks like then, kind of figuring it out. One thing I want to ask you is that in the tech business, we've always been fascinated by Moore's law doubling the speed of the processors. That's Intel thing. But if you look at what you guys do with the game of thrones on the high end with CG, I see the C g I and all the cool stuff. The experiences that people have today become the expectations or the expectations become the new experiences. So you've seen an accelerated user experience. Visually, you got gaming, culture, gaming environments. I mean fortnight wasn't around two years ago. Right? Half the world pretty much plays the game or you got game of thrones. So he's now will soon become table stakes, these kinds of experience. So I got to see where you guys are going with that. How does that change how you guys operate because you gotta look at the expectations of the users consumer. That might be the new experience. How to figure out that dynamic is challenging. How do you guys do that? What's the What's the guiding philosophy around that? That trend? >> Yes. So we have, um we're maniacal about ensuring that the experience for designing is really well thought through with the right research in the right input from us. We're on the right contact. So while it may sound like a great idea and it may sound like something you need, like, how do we make sure we're doing the right thing? Right? Diligence, Tio to build the red experience and represent the product in the right way. And then we also a maniacal on the back end of testing and after optimizing that so being very realistic about is it effective is a driving is driving. Whatever the K p I is, even if it's just innovation, is it driving the KP eyes, uh, that you need and then adjusting? Because nothing could be stagnant? He's >> super exciting area. I mean, there's so much opportunity and change going on. Awesome final questions about the relationship with the job You guys are here. Adobes got a whole growth strategy in front, and that looks really strongly gotta cloud technology platform. Now they're integrating data across multiple their modules in their suites. How does that impact you guys? What's your relationship with Adobe? Yes, >> so we are. We are very big partner of Adobe. We've had a accolades throughout the years of being partner of the year. So we have a large practice dedicated Teo helping clients really look at how to implement the stack howto build content and campaign delivery models on top of that. So it's, um, both the technology and an implement implementation focus, but quite frankly, and I think what's unique is a is a process and kind of how do you operational as that focus? Like I said, you know, everyone's talking about atomic comic, the atomic content these days and certainly, I mean the adobe stack. Absolutely. Khun support that And really power personalized dynamic content for you is a brand but operational operational izing. That is a totally different story. So we're really working with the Adobe team closely on with our customers. Tio kind of build the model on top of the stack and say, How do you need to change your organization to really, really get the value out of out of these tools and really deliver the experiences that are going to be differentiated? >> We've heard that all along all week here and other events we go to is that it's not the tech problem. It's these new capabilities being operationalized older cultures as a people process problem. >> Yeah, it seems >> to be the big, big story. >> It's a it's it's. And I would say it's an ongoing challenge for the brands we work within, and they're constantly getting additional. Um, uh, market demands to be able to kind of continue changing their model. Like I said, programmatic particularly and hyper personalization is is really putting that into practice is is >> great practice Navy. Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights here on the I do appreciate it. Thank you very much >> for having me >> live coverage here in Dopey Summit twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. To keep coverage day to continue. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> From San Francisco, It's theCUBE. Covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2018. Now here's Jeff Frick. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2018: about 600 people. I think its three times as big as it was last year here at the Hyatt San Francisco Airport in Burlingame, and on of the big topics of today is the release of this new report. It's called The State of Modern Applications in DevOps Security, and to talk all about it and the results and kind of the process we are excited to have Kalyan Ramanathan, excuse me, VP of Product Marketing at Sumo Logic. Welcome. >> Thank you, Jeff. >> So you've been doing this report for a while, correct? >> Yeah, exactly, I think this is the third version of this report, and from what we know the first and only report that looks at how, you know, leading edge customers actually build, run, manage, and secure their applications in public cloud environments. >> Right, so just a little history for people that aren't familiar: Sumo launched in the cloud natively, right, and I think you guys launched on AWS. >> Absolutely. >> Way back when, I think, one of our very first AWS shows we went to in 2013, Summit San Francisco, I remember it well, we had you guys on, and so you guys have really grown along with AWS, but obviously you have expanded well beyond just simply inside of AWS. >> That's right. So, the company was founded in 2010, and we were one of the first big data services to run on AWS. I think our founders, you know, ran into one of the AWS architects who describe this new thing called a cloud, and they were completely smitten by it. They thought that this was the next new wave of how services are going to be delivered, so it just made a lot of sense to build this machine data analytics platform, that we were building, or that we were planning to build on AWS. >> Right. >> The scalability, the agility, the, ya know, the flexibility that AWS offered was exactly what our platform needed, and so this was a marriage made in heaven. But we can support applications that run just about anywhere. We obviously support applications running on AWS extremely well; that's our DNA. We get those applications, because we build and run those applications ourselves, but we also support Azure. We support GCP. We support hybrid environments. Many of our customers, ya know, are either, ya know, built in the cloud, and they know only cloud, but a few of them are also making the transition to the cloud, are migrating their applications to the cloud, and you know, we believe that we live in an age where flexibility is extremely important, and we support our customers where ever their applications are today. >> Right, so let's look at some of the findings, so. >> Absolutely. >> Just from a process point of view, you interviewed your customer data base, right? Your, your numbers here? >> Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. We looked at our 16 hundred customers. >> Sixteen hundred customers, okay. >> And an important point to make out here is that we don't interview our customers. What we do is to, essentially, collect data from our customers, which is what we do when we are doing machine data analytics, we anonymize those data, and we represent as to what is happening in terms of these applications. How do our customers build these applications, you know, manage them, and secure them? >> Right. >> So this is not a >> It's the real data, though. >> It's real data. >> This is not, this is not what they think they know, and they're going to answer the survey. >> Absolutely. Exactly. Right. >> And all the survey biases that can come up. >> You are very right, I mean, you know, that's what makes this report unique, right? >> Right, right. >> It's the first report where we're actually reflecting what customers actually do. It's not a survey. It's not an aggregation of, you know, data from ten other sources. This is as close to truth as you can get in terms of running and building and securing applications. >> Right. >> In the cloud environment. >> So, I was happy to see that the data supports a number of the hypotheses that we derive at a lot of the shows. >> Absolutely. >> That we go through. You know, right of the top: Docker and the adoption of Kubernetes in orchestration is growing rapidly. >> Absolutely, I mean, ya know, everywhere you go you hear containers: container this, container that, so, ya know, we see a similar adoption. Docker has grown from 14 percent to about 28 percent in this, as we see in this report, but what's interesting is also the growth of Kubernetes and orchestration, right? If you were to ask anyone, even in this conference, you know, about orchestration, let's say two or three years ago, and even the word Kubernetes, ya know, I'm sure you'd have gotten blank stares. >> Right, right. >> Here we are, two years into Kubernetes becoming, you know, somewhat mainstream, and we are already starting to see 30 per cent adoption of orchestration within AWS, and out of that 30 per cent, we almost see fifteen per cent of those folks using Kubernetes as a native technology. AWS has just announced their own Kubernetes service. I am sure if, when we have this conversation next year, >> Right. >> Kubernetes, you know, will become a household name. You will see 30 per cent adoption of Kubernetes alone, >> Right. >> Ya know, in a report of this kind. >> Well it's funny: when we were at VMworld a couple weeks ago, and Kubernetes was both in Pat's, Pat Gelsinger's keynote. >> Uh-huh. >> As well as Sonjay's, you know, so it's just, it really shows how fast in this type of a world a new technology adoption can just be put into place. >> Yeah, I mean, if you bring the right capabilities, if you have the right support, which is what Kubernetes does, and, obviously, if you have the right backing, you know, in the form of Google, obviously, incubating this project and then, you know, promoting it as an open source standard, and everybody is now falling behind it. Ya know, we support it. We hear it from our customers, and, you know, the data also bears this out. >> Right, so what about on the database side? What did you find on the database side? >> Yeah, I mean, the database results are always interesting for us, right? You know, I think the most important thing that we learned is that, you know, as customers are building apps in their public cloud environments, they really have a choice, ya know? If you were to build an on-prem, you know, application, once upon a time, I mean, you are usually stuck with Oracle or, ya know, MySQL or SQL Silver or some of those standard database fares everyone has heard about. >> Right. >> But when you, now, go to the cloud, when you migrate to the cloud, or when you are, you know, incubating your applications in the cloud to begin with, you want to re-think your database layer. This is the core layer that powers your application, and there are lots more, ya know, opportunities to, and options out there. >> Right. >> So, what we are seeing is, one, the growth of no-SQL databases: they are way more scalable, ya know, they handle big data way better that, ya know, traditional SQL databases, so we're definitely seeing a growth of that, of no-SQL databases. >> Right. >> What's also interesting is that, ya know, is customers have the choice. They are looking at other forms of databases. Ya know, I could look at Redis, I could look at MongoDB, I could look at Posgres, and, right, I'm not stuck going back to, ya know, our favorite Oracle or SQL Silver anymore. >> Right. What strikes me is that the definition of the requirement has been flipped upside-down. Before it was, "What infrastructure do we have? What's available that IT can deliver to me? What do we have licenses for, and what can I build on top of?" Now the application has taken center stage, so now it's "This is what I want to do with my application. What is it that I need underneath the covers to deliver that capability?" So it really flipped the whole thing on its head. >> Ya know, this also goes back to that, you know, sort of the democratization of decisions where, you know, developers, now, can make these choices. You know, once upon a time, right, I mean, someone, a muckity-muck in your organization says Oracle is the way to go, and everybody follows suite, follows suit. That's not the case any more, right? >> Right. >> I mean, the engineer, they're a developer who is building their application, especially in the microservices world, they can make choices in terms of what is a data server that they may choose to build into that microservcie? And that doesn't have to be Oracle every time. It doesn't have to be SQL Silver every time. You know, if Redis makes sense, if MongoDB makes sense, let's go build that into our into our platform. >> Right, so, another one, you know, serverless is all the hot buzz, and clearly that is supported here with some of the data around Lambda adoption. >> Yeah, I mean, Lambda growth, you know, continues to astound us. We are seeing Lambda grow from twelve per cent two years ago, which is when we did our first report, to now, you know, almost 30 per cent, you know? So, imagine that, right: one in three enterprises today are using Lambda, and this is a technology that is very easy to use, but architecture-wise, you need to re-think how you are putting your applications together with Lambda, and we are starting to see, you know, some wide-spread Lambda adoption, you know, within enterprises. >> Right, but isn't that the ultimate goal, I mean, as we get closer and closer to, you know, atomic versions of store, compute, & networking, I mean, shouldn't it all, ultimately, get there. >> Yeah. >> I mean, there's requirements, and, you know, there's reality I don't deal, you know, luckily I don't have to go turn the stuff on and run it, but, you know, that is the vision, right? Atomic units of compute, atomic units of store, atomic units of network. >> Yeah, I mean, look, serverless is the ultimate Nirvana when it comes to the cloud, right? I mean, the notion of the cloud is that, you know, I have an application. It needs to run. I don't worry about the infrastructure, and to a certain extent, I don't even worry about the management. So, serverless and Lambda is the manifestation of that. >> Right. >> Right, and what we are starting to see is that many customers are, at least dabbling with Lambda. Now, I won't say that customers are building their core application with Lambda yet, because that requires a re-think of their application itself, but what we are starting to see is that Lambda is used in DevOps, Lambda is used in integration, Lambda is a glue-ware that sort of ties all of these applications together. >> Right. >> In fact, you know, this report that we put together, a lot of it has actually been put together on the back of Lambda. We use Lambda extensively to collect this kind of data, and create a report of this kind. >> (chuckles) That's great! Another piece I wanted to make sure that we talked about is really, kind of, the break-down of the clouds. >> Uh-huh. >> Obviously you guys have a huge percentage of your business is, you know, you ask customers, you guys were born in AWS. >> That's right. >> That seems pretty logical, but what's interesting is a lot of multi-cloud, so, you know, I don't know if you distinguish between multi-cloud, hyper-cloud, but at the end of the day, as I think Ramin talked about in the keynote, right, there's going to be different places for different workloads. >> Absolutely. You know, look, as you rightfully pointed out, we are born in AWS, so we have an affinity to AWS, and so AWS customers also have an affinity to Sumo Logic, so it's not wonder that a big swath of our customers are built in AWS. Now, having said that, what we are also seeing is actually an acceleration of our customers, you know, adopting more and more AWS. I mean, they are the leaders in the space. I mean, I think nobody can, nobody can question that statistics. What is interesting, though, is that we are starting to see increased adoption of multi-cloud. We saw about five per cent of our customers dabble in multi-cloud last year. We are at close to ten per cent this year. We are also seeing increased adoption of Azure. We had a, you know, about five per cent of our customers use Azure last year. We are starting to see almost, I should say about eight per cent of our customers used Azure last year. We saw, we're seeing about fifteen per cent of our customers use Azure this year. >> Right, right. >> Right, so Azure is a, you know, has definitely become a very credible second cloud alternative for many of our customers. >> Sure. >> Now, we do see interest in GCP. It's not translated into lots of GCP adoption in production environments yet, but we're definitely seeing that increased interest, and I'm sure, you know, when we put this report together next year, you'll see some very credible and statistically relevant GCP data in this report. >> Right, right, so, Kalyan, there's a lot here, and we could go on for (chuckles) and on and on. So, people can go to the website. They can download the report, but... It's so great, but what I like most about this report is you lay out the facts, right, you lay out your findings, people can question your data source or this or that, but you lay out your methodology, but then you have very specific instructions for the IT buyer about what they should consider, and I think that is so powerful, because I think from the position of an IT purchaser today, >> Right. >> They've got to just be getting creamed with, you know, like, with things we're talkin' about, like, with serverless and Lambda and security and DevOps and >> Right. >> And the pace of change for them keeps going faster, so where do they even begin when they're doin' this kind of analysis? It's not just putting it out for an RFP anymore, right? >> Yeah, I mean, that was the intent of this report, right? I mean, at the, you know, when we started this report our goal was to provide accurate, real-time information about, you know, where are these modern apps in the public cloud going? You know, our leading-edge customers, like Airbnb and the Twitters and the Salesforce and the Adobes, know how to do this well, but there is a huge swath of our community that is, in some sense, perplexed, right? I mean, they see this cloud adoption happening. They see this cloud wave coming. They have cut their teeth on, you know, data centers and applications in the data center. How do I make that transition to the cloud? How do I, you know, follow these cloud-first companies and learn from these companies? And, so, what we wanted to do was to collect this data, anonymously surface this data, and provide, you know, this insight to this community so that they can, you know, in some sense emulate, you know, these leading-edge companies and learn how to architect, build, run and secure their apps. >> Right, right, and I love this little, you know, kind of, the new stack, if you will, the architecture set-up. >> Right. >> Cake chart that you've done in the past. All right, great! So, a lot of, ton of information. I'll give you the last word as we're here at Illuminate, triple last year's numbers. A little bit about where you guys are goin' next. What's, kind of, top of your mind? >> You know, look, you know, Sumo Logic, as a company, you know, we are doing exceptionally well in this machine data analytics space. We are the only cloud-native machine data analytics vendor. We are where the market is going, right? We understand cloud; the apps are going to the cloud. We know how to manage these apps exceptionally well, but more importantly, you know, we think that it's also important and it behooves us to make sure that we take our developer community, our ops community, our security community along with us, and that's the intent of this report. >> Right. >> It's to not sell product, though we do want to sell it eventually. >> Yeah. >> But it's to provide you guys, actually I should say, provide the community with the right kinds of information so that, you know, they can do their jobs better. >> Right, right. >> That's the goal of Sumo Logic. It's all about, you know, empowering the people who power these modern apps, which is actually the theme of this event itself. >> Well, very good. Well, we'll leave it there, and thanks for taking a few minutes of your time. >> Thank you very much, Jeff. >> All right, he's Kalyan. I'm Jeff. You're watchin' theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate at San Francisco Hyatt Regency by the airport. See ya next time. (hip music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose, California, it's theCUBE, covering Big Data Silicon Valley 2017. (light techno music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Big Data SV, wrapping up with two days of wall-to-wall coverage of Big Data SV which is associated with Strata Comp, which is part of Big Data Week, which always becomes the epicenter of the big data world for a week here in San Jose. We're at the historic Pagoda Lounge, and we're excited to have our next two guests, talking a little bit different twist on big data that maybe you hadn't thought of. We've got Ravi Dharnikota, he is the Chief Enterprise Architect at SnapLogic, welcome. - Hello. >> Jeff: And he has brought along a customer, Katharine Matsumoto, she is a Data Scientist at eero, welcome. >> Thank you, thanks for having us. >> Jeff: Absolutely, so we had SnapLogic on a little earlier with Garavs, but tell us a little bit about eero. I've never heard of eero before, for folks that aren't familiar with the company. >> Yeah, so eero is a start-up based in San Francisco. We are sort of driven to increase home connectivity, both the performance and the ease of use, as wifi becomes totally a part of everyday life. We do that. We've created the world's first mesh wifi system. >> Okay. >> So that means you have, for an average home, three different individual units, and you plug one in to replace your router, and then the other three get plugged in throughout the home just to power, and they're able to spread coverage, reliability, speed, throughout your homes. No more buffering, dead zones, in that way back bedroom. >> Jeff: And it's a consumer product-- >> Yes. >> So you got all the fun and challenges of manufacturing, you've got the fun challenges of distribution, consumer marketing, so a lot of challenges for a start-up. But you guys are doing great. Why SnapLogic? >> Yeah, so in addition to the challenges with the hardware, we also are a really strong software. So, everything is either set up via the app. We are not just the backbone to your home's connectivity, but also part of it, so we're sending a lot of information back from our devices to be able to learn and improve the wifi that we're delivering based on the data we get back. So that's a lot of data, a lot of different teams working on different pieces. So when we were looking at launch, how do we integrate all of that information together to make it accessible to business users across different teams, and also how do we handle the scale. I made a checklist (laughs), and SnapLogic was really the only one that seemed to be able to deliver on both of those promises with a look to the future of like, I don't know what my next Sass product is, I don't know what our next API point we're going to need to hit is, sort of the flexibility of that as well as the fact that we have analysts were able to pick it up, engineers were able to pick it up, and I could still manage all the software written by, or the pipelines written by each of those different groups without having to read whatever version of code they're writing. >> Right, so Ravi, we heard you guys are like doubling your customer base every year, and lots of big names, Adobe we talked about earlier today. But I don't know that most people would think of SnapLogic really, as a solution to a start-up mesh network company. >> Yeah, absolutely, so that's a great point though, let me just start off with saying that in this new world, we don't discriminate-- (guest and host laugh) we integrate and we don't discriminate. In this new world that I speak about is social media, you know-- >> Jeff: Do you bus? (all laugh) >> So I will get to that. (all laugh) So, social, mobile, analytics, and cloud. And in this world, people have this thing which we fondly call integrators' dilemma. You want to integrate apps, you go to a different tool set. You integrate data, you start thinking about different tool sets. So we want to dispel that and really provide a unified platform for both apps and data. So remember, when we are seeing all the apps move into the cloud and being provided as services, but the data systems are also moving to the cloud. You got your data warehouses, databases, your BI systems, analytical tools, all are being provided to you as services. So, in this world data is data. If it's apps, it's probably schema mapping. If it's data systems, it's transformations moving from one end to the other. So, we're here to solve both those challenges in this new world with a unified platform. And it also helps that our lineage and the brain trust that brings us here, we did this a couple of decades ago and we're here to reinvent that space. >> Well, we expect you to bring Clayton Christensen on next time you come to visit, because he needs a new book, and I think that's a good one. (all laugh) But I think it was a really interesting part of the story though too, is you have such a dynamic product. Right, if you looked at your boxes, I've got the website pulled up, you wouldn't necessarily think of the dynamic nature that you're constantly tweaking and taking the data from the boxes to change the service that you're delivering. It's not just this thing that you made to a spec that you shipped out the door. >> Yeah, and that's really where the auto connected, we did 20 from our updates last year. We had problems with customers would have the same box for three years, and the technology change, the chips change, but their wifi service is the same, and we're constantly innovating and being able to push those out, but if you're going to do that many updates, you need a lot of feedback on the updates because things break when you update sometimes, and we've been able to build systems that catch that that are able to identify changes that say, not one person could be able to do by looking at their own things or just with support. We have leading indicators across all sorts of different stability and performance and different devices, so if Xbox changes their protocols, we can identify that really quickly. And that's sort of the goal of having all the data in one place across customer support and manufacturing. We can easily pinpoint where in the many different complicated factors you can find the problem. >> Have issues. - Yeah. >> So, I've actually got questions for both of you. Ravi, starting with you, it sounds like you're trying to tackle a challenge that in today's tools would have included Kafka at the data integration level, and there it's very much a hub and spoke approach. And I guess it's also, you would think of the application level integration more like the TIBCO and other EAI vendors in a previous generation-- - [Ravi] Yeah. >> Which I don't think was hub and spoke, it was more point to point, and I'm curious how you resolve that, in other words, how you'd tackle both together in a unified architecture? >> Yeah, that's an excellent question. In fact, one of the integrators' dilemma that I spoke about you've got the problem set where you've got the high-latency, high-volume, where you go to ETL tools. And then the low-latency, low-volume, you immediately go to the TIBCOs of the world and that's ESB, EAI sort of tool sets that you look to solve. So what we've done is we've thought about it hard. At one level we've just said, why can integration not be offered as a service? So that's step number one where the design experience is through the cloud, and then execution can just happen anywhere, behind your firewall or in the cloud, or in a big data system, so it caters to all of that. But then also, the data set itself is changing. You're seeing a lot of the document data model that are being offered by the Sass services. So the old ETL companies that were built before all of this social, mobile sort of stuff came around, it was all row and column oriented. So how do you deal with the more document oriented JSON sort of stuff? And we built that for, the platform to be able to handle that kind of data. Streaming is an interesting and important question. Pretty much everyone I spoke to last year were, streaming was a big-- let's do streaming, I want everything in real-time. But batch also has it's place. So you've got to have a system that does batch as well as real-time, or as near real-time as needed. So we solve for all of those problems. >> Okay, so Katharine, coming to you, each customer has a different, well, every consumer has a different, essentially, a stall base. To bring all the telemetry back to make sense out of what's working and what's not working, or how their environment is changing. How do you make sense out of all that, considering that it's not B to B, it's B to C so, I don't know how many customers you have, but it must be in the tens or hundreds. >> I'm sure I'm not allowed to say (laughs). >> No. But it's the distinctness of each customer that I gather makes the support challenge for you. >> Yeah, and part of that's exposing as much information to the different sources, and starting to automate the ways in which we do it. There's certainly a lot, we are very early on as a company. We've hit our year mark for public availability the end of last month so-- >> Jeff: Congratulations. >> Thank you, it's been a long year. But with that we learn more, constantly, and different people come to different views as different new questions come up. The special-snowflake aspect of each customer, there's a balance between how much actually is special and how much you can find patterns. And that's really where you get into much more interesting things on the statistics and machine learning side is how do you identify those patterns that you may not even know you're looking for. We are still beginning to understand our customers from a qualitative standpoint. It actually came up this week where I was doing an analysis and I was like, this population looks kind of weird, and with two clicks was able to send out a list over to our CX team. They had access to all the same systems because all of our data is connected and they could pull up the tickets based on, because through SnapLogic, we're joining all the data together. We use Looker as our BI tool, they were just able to start going into all the tickets and doing a deep dive, and that's being presented later this week as to like, hey, what is this population doing? >> So, for you to do this, that must mean you have at least some data that's common to every customer. For you to be able to use something like Looker, I imagine. If every customer was a distinct snowflake, it would be very hard to find patterns across them. >> Well I mean, look at how many people have iPhones, have MacBooks, you know, we are looking at a lot of aggregate-level data in terms of how things are behaving, and always the challenge of any data science project is creating those feature extractions, and so that's where the process we're going through as the analytics team is to start extracting those things and adding them to our central data source. That's one of the areas also where having very integrated analytics and ETL has been helpful as we're just feeding that information back in to everyone. So once we figure out, oh hey, this is how you differentiate small businesses from homes, because we do see a couple of small businesses using our product, that goes back into the data and now everyone's consuming it. Each of those common features, it's a slow process to create them, but it's also increases the value every time you add one to the central group. >> One last question-- >> It's an interesting way to think of the wifi service and the connected devices an integration challenge, as opposed to just an appliance that kind of works like an old POTS line, which it isn't, clearly at all. (all laugh) With 20 firmware updates a year (laughs). >> Yeah, there's another interesting point, that we were just having the discussion offline, it's that it's a start-up. They obviously don't have the resources or the app, but have a large IT department to set up these systems. So, as Katharine mentioned, one person team initially when they started, and to be able to integrate, who knows which system is going to be next. Maybe they experiment with one cloud service, it perhaps scales to their liking or not, and then they quickly change and go to another one. You cannot change the integration underneath that. You got to be able to adjust to that. So that flexibility, and the other thing is, what they've done with having their business become self-sufficient is another very fascinating thing. It's like, give them the power. Why should IT or that small team become the bottom line? Don't come to me, I'll just empower you with the right tool set and the patterns and then from there, you change and put in your business logic and be productive immediately. >> Let me drill down on that, 'cause my understanding, at least in the old world was that DTL was kind of brittle, and if you're constantly ... Part of actually, the genesis of Hadoop, certainly at Yahoo was, we're going to bring all the data we might ever possibly need into the repository so we don't have to keep re-writing the pipeline. And it sounds like you have the capability to evolve the pipeline rather quickly as you want to bring more data into this sort of central resource. Am I getting that about right? >> Yeah, it's a little bit of both. We do have a central, I think, down data's the fancy term for that, so we're bringing everything into S3, jumping it into those raw JSONs, you know, whatever nested format it comes into, so whatever makes it so that extraction is easy. Then there's also, as part of ETL, there's that last mile which is a lot of business logic, and that's where you run into teams starting to diverge very quickly if you don't have a way for them to give feedback into the process. We've really focused on empowering business users to be self-service, in terms of answering their own questions, and that's freed up our in list to add more value back into the greater group as well as answer harder questions, that both beget more questions, but also feeds back insights into that data source because they have access to their piece of that last business logic. By changing the way that one JSON field maps or combining two, they've suddenly created an entirely new variable that's accessible to everyone. So it's sort of last-leg business logic versus the full transport layer. We have a whole platform that's designed to transport everything and be much more robust to changes. >> Alright, so let me make sure I understand this, it sounds like the less-trained or more self-sufficient, they go after the central repository and then the more highly-trained and scarcer resource, they are responsible for owning one or more of the feeds and that they enrich that or make that more flexible and general-purpose so that those who are more self-sufficient can get at it in the center. >> Yeah, and also you're able to make use of the business. So we have sort of a hybrid model with our analysts that are really closely embedded into the teams, and so they have all that context that you need that if you're relying on, say, a central IT team, that you have to go back and forth of like, why are you doing this, what does this mean? They're able to do all that in logic. And then the goal of our platform team is really to focus on building technologies that complement what we have with SnapLogic or others that are accustomed to our data systems that enable that same sort of level of self-service for creating specific definitions, or are able to do it intelligently based on agreed upon patterns of extraction. >> George: Okay. >> Heavy science. Alright, well unfortunately we are out of time. I really appreciate the story, I love the site, I'll have to check out the boxes, because I know I have a bunch of dead spots in my house. (all laugh) But Ravi, I want to give you the last word, really about how is it working with a small start-up doing some cool, innovative stuff, but it's not your Adobes, it's not a lot of the huge enterprise clients that you have. What have you taken, why does that add value to SnapLogic to work with kind of a cool, fun, small start-up? >> Yeah, so the enterprise is always a retrofit job. You have to sort of go back to the SAPs and the Oracle databases and make sure that we are able to connect the legacy with a new cloud application. Whereas with a start-up, it's all new stuff. But their volumes are constantly changing, they probably have spikes, they have burst volumes, they're thinking about this differently, enabling everyone else, quickly changing and adopting newer technologies. So we have to be able to adjust to that agility along with them. So we're very excited as sort of partnering with them and going along with them on this journey. And as they start looking at other things, the machine learning and the AI and the IRT space, we're very excited to have that partnership and learn from them and evolve our platform as well. >> Clearly. You're smiling ear-to-ear, Katharine's excited, you're solving problems. So thanks again for taking a few minutes and good luck with your talk tomorrow. Alright, I'm Jeff Frick, he's George Gilbert, you're watching theCUBE from Big Data SV. We'll be back after this short break. Thanks for watching. (light techno music)