>> live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering magenta. Imagine twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin at Imagine, twenty nineteen from the Wynn Las Vegas. It's happy hour here, but I really wish I had a Coke. I don't have one. But I do have a gentleman from Coca Cola, please doing me and welcoming a couple of guests to the Cube. We have Enrique no great day. The director of Direct to Consumer for Coca Cola Mexico. Enrique, Thank you for joining us. >> Thanks, Lisa. Nice to meet you. >> And we have from forty for Raghu Kerala managing partner. Welcome to >> the Cube. You nailed the name. There you go. Talk >> to >> that interview. I did my best. All right, so here we are in imagine, twenty nineteen with about thirty, five hundred or so people. This show is one that has a tremendous amount of energy. It's like you gave everybody a cook when they walked in the door. Didn't really need it, But we've heard a tremendous amount of positivity people very excited for being able to leverage the power of data to deliver really impactful experiences and as consumers of any product. We want a brand to know us. We want them to help us make our lives better. Before we dig into that with Coca Cola, argue, let's start with you. Forty four is one of magenta owes partners. Give us a little bit of a history there on what you guys do, together with the Gento and four customers like Coca Cola, Mexico. >> Thank you, Lisa, and thank you for inviting us here today. Well, when we put together forty four, we ask yourself some questions like, How do we aspire to be great? And one of the things was to surround ourselves with great partners and adobes definitely been a great partner for us, because what we want to do is bring tea to our customers. A not just a sight but an experience for their consumers. They can live on and grow and invest in a platform. And what we found with Adobe and the Magenta Commerce cloud was a way that we could start building something in an array, tours greatness by using data and insights to build upon our knowledge. And luckily, way found a great partner in Coca Cola that we could aspire to be great together to the end. Consumer e commerce is still in this early days, and what we wanted to say is that a great brand could start and start looking at e commerce in a way to improve their customers. Lives be available in moments that of need and moments of want. And that's something we started doing with North America about four years ago and brought that to Western Europe. And now Lat Ham in the last year has been a great experience partnering with you. >> CocaCola is a brand that everybody knows globally. It's one of those almost feel good brands, right? I mean, you just can't help but get a smile on your face when somebody asked If you want a cup full, of course, who would say no to that? Give me a little lemon twist and I'm very happy, but something that you guys are doing together with Coca Cola. Mexico was really inspirational, and it's really helping to transform and improve people's lives. And we could talk to us about the program that you're building with forty four and how it's actually making giving people access to things that they don't just want that they actually need, like, quality of life, type of sure products. >> So thanks. Thanks a lot, Lisa, for the invitations. So first of all, you know, we have a big challenge, because way No, we have a great brand way, actually have a lot of brands, and that's the challenge. So how can we create this? The solution where we can access people to this? Never. It's for life. So it's not only Coke way have a lot of different products, and Wei have in Mexico is that it's, ah, project that we are calling Coca Cola. It's Coke at home on what we do there is. We are providing the consumers a subscription model where we are enabling the access to multiple beverage products any time on everywhere. So that's that's That's the ambition we have we launched last year in the city of Monterrey. It's It's our first city. We are planning to scale this business into the whole country and probably Latin America. First on, why not probably the states on some foreseeable future. >> So this is more than on demand. I live in Silicon Valley, where we're pretty, you know, we have high expectations and I want to order something, whether it's on door dash or through Google expressed our Amazon that I wanted to show up within an hour. But that's, you know, I might be lazy, that I don't actually want to get in my car and driver walk somewhere. But what you're talking about this is this is not just I want Coca Cola products on demand. This is actually reaching people that really have a strong and need for this type of service. Talk to us about that human interaction and what you guys are really enabling there for your consumers. >> Sure, so So, yeah, United. So the thing is, what we see, the big opportunity here is way. Want to be closer to our consumers? We went to understand them. We want to to hear from them, to receive feedback directly back the way we are used to working Coca Cola in the past one hundred and thirty three years that that's a history of cardiac alights way have the customers that interact with consumers, and then we get some information from the consumers. We've been great doing marketing campaigns, you know. But right now the challenge that we're facing is we want to have direct feedback from them. So we're creating this eco system where we are getting feedback. We're getting knowledge from them, and we know exactly what what's their their needs. The pain points, their suffering, Andi the way what we can solve them and probably eventually some future products. But we can create for them with the specific necessities that they have. So that's what we're creating there. That's a big thing. >> And so we're gonna talk to us about the opportunity to work with a brand like Coca Cola that's been around for over one hundred thirty years, talk about transformation and be able to enable them to really kind of not just delight customers. But there's an emotional connection that people >> have this products. So we always say, like ideally done way can add value from the state of desire to the state of consumption, and in between is a transaction. It's fulfillment, its operations and perhaps unique to most clients of, um, Magenta and Adobe. Coca Cola in Mexico owns a full relationship, and it's a full branded piece from creating that desire in your heart in your mind in your taste buds, but then owning that all the way through the delivery trucks and the people delivering it to your door. And that's something that a CPD firm just actually, I'm not sure of any other CPV firm does in the US or in Mexico at this point. And but then what is the excellence mean? We haven't untidy of excellence of what Coke means to us, the nostalgia and what it means today. But that also raises the high bar because we're not allowed to not be excellent at any other touch point of the brand. But definitely it's fun, right? It's a challenge, you know, making money online. That's the easy part, Being really proud of what you're doing online. That's kind of what makes you go to work every day. >> Being relevant for consumers is what, yeah, >> being relevant? Absolutely, especially because there's a lot of choice with most products and services that are available to us as consumers these days. And if you think of you know, we've been talking a lot at this event about the customer experience and customer experience management, and how can Adobe Inn Magenta enable their customers to use data to understand what delivering what my customer wants to improve. Whether it's, you know, we talked to HP Inc this morning allowing me to order a new PC or printed or ink and have it delivered specifically exactly the way that I wanted to. Whether it's, you know, getting a Coca Cola. I want whoever I'm interacting with to give you a seamless experience. But use the data that you're collecting about me to make my life better. Make my life easier, more seamless. Frictionless. How are you guys at forty for helping Enrique and team utilize that data too crude to really enhance this consumer experience and maybe even create more brand loyalty? Yeah, it's >> interesting. I think data is a tool, but then your hypothesis, where you go from has to be endemic to the brand and for Coca Cola. On the internal, we think of it as a portfolio portfolio of different products in different needs states from hydration to enjoyment from special moments to everyday moments. But then that allows you to start thinking, How do I be part relevant part of more moments and then you could say, Where does data fit into that and now I can understand how there's a new moments being made because people's lives change and the youth always find different ways in different ways of living in different way from being. How can we be relevant to them through our throughout all of that, from the moment you wake up in what you need state is there to special moment of happiness, and they have a company that has products that could live up to. All of that is great and you know you need a portfolio. But you also need to being desire and wanted need all together in one thing, because one person has all of that and one company came, fulfill it if you think about it from a idea of moment. But then what data? Khun, Due to bring those to life >> so soon being relevant, continuing to be relevant is challenging. It's going to require you to really look at trends across a spectrum of, say, consumer behaviors. Enrique, what are some of the trends that you guys are seeing with this project that you've launched in Mexico, and how were you going to be using those trends to expand this globally? >> Sure, Yeah, So? So first of all, as you, as you know, probably e commerce in Mexico is is quite a small right now. So the thing is, it's growing in, you know, very aggressive rates on DH. It happens the same in the rest of Latin America countries. So what What other retailers are looking at is they want to create this this big business right now because they know that in the future it's going to be the competitive advantage for them. So So I think that's something that not many sippy jeez are looking at. There's a lot off are things that must happen inside the companies to enable this on DH. In my experience, the most challenging things and it's not a trend, but it's it's a challenge that we face us as a big city. Gee, Cos is how can we change the culture inside the company? Because this is the main barrier we have. We face when we see and I I'm going to give you the example of Mexico when we see the digital sales of the beverage in Mexico, it comes about two point five percent of the total sales that we have so its its really small if you compare it to the rest of the retail. So whenever we go to the to the rest of the corporation and the rest of the building in Mexico, we say that we want in best, and we want to do there's there's a lot of barriers, you know on the challenge, the main challenge that we face right now. The's companies that want to go direct ical Sumer is this is happen. We changed the mindset, change the culture, and I think that's the most relevant. It's no trend, but it's It's the most relevant challenge that we're facing right now, >> a big challenge because not just for for every convict, but a company with the history that Coca Cola has to be able to start leveraging that data to start to change mindsets and ship cultures. Where are you guys on that journey? And how is your partnership with forty four may be a facilitator of that cultural change? >> Yeah, sure, So it's to be really honest. We're we're beginning this journey way have some countries that are ahead of us. We have some examples in China, For example, curriculum, China's great things cortical in North America is doing very big things in Mexico and Latin America. We're starting the journey on the thing. What we realized is that we need to get together with people that know of this matter. Way are really good at marketing. We're really good at a commercial approach. Operational approach ware not the best at the commerce, but we. That's why we are partnering with guys that no one, we're partnering with platforms like Adobe Magenta, too. To achieve this, that's that's the thing, right? >> Yeah, >> Rookie will finish with you. What are some of the things that you have seen and heard at? Imagine twenty nineteen from a technology innovation perspective that give you the confidence that adobe in Magenta Technologies are going to be able to deliver, what it is that Enrique and his team need to make that barrier change internal evaporate. Yeah, >> I mean, I think when you think of technology right now, even within adobes, it's what the combination of different products that adobe has and how they're going to come together. So the roadmap is a critical piece of it. I think there's been a great announcement of Sensei's coming in and being part of the core offering to make each interaction a little smarter, but also really see the payoff and save what's the real need that trying to be solved, then back that into the products that you see to cut between the different between a press release and a road map? And I think when you come to a summit like this, you hear things from Adobe. But then you also hear the reactions from the customers. And if you hear those both at the same time, you find that great thing in the middle >> of >> what's actionable. And I think if you think of only customer opinions or the what the platform says individually, I think they're less relevant than finding that really time reaction to trends and say, Honestly, sometimes you're drowning in technology and you wantto move the business forward and react to that weak sales that month's numbers. But then you say, Well, let me take a step back and look at the road map or vice versa, and I think everybody's in different stages of where they're going. So until you get that wisdom from everybody else, anyone announcement might be might take you off course. But then you start saying other people are in my boat. Other people are filling my opportunity, sent my sense of opportunity, and other people are feeling my sense of pain. And it's great to see a community come together. It's five thousand people that all want to accomplish something different things, but they want to accomplish success. Whatever. However, they personally define it. >> And it is to your point. It's a very, very strong community here. But we thank you both so much for taking the time to share with us what you guys are doing together with Coca Cola run that everybody knows and loves. So I say we go get a cookie cola and wrap this segment. What do you think you're all right? >> Moment is coming. >> Fantastic. You're watching the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin from Imagine, twenty nineteen from the Wynn Las Vegas. Thanks for watching

>> Narrator: From New York, it's the CUBE. Covering Blockchain Week. Now here's John Furrier. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. This is the CUBE here in New York City on the ground for Consensus 2018. Part of Blockchain Week New York City. I'm John Furrier your cohost of the CUBE and Enrique Rodriguez is here with me. He's a blockchain guru and he's part of the Crypto Consulting Group. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So love that big coin little thing there. >> Yeah. >> Come on are you holding som bitcoin right now? >> Yeah yeah. >> So tell me about your project says in the hallways here and checking in on what's going on. You're working with Andrew Prell the alumni. >> Yeah. So. >> On a cool project, so explain what that is. >> So the project with Andre or what we do? >> What you guys do first. >> Yeah so essentially you know there's a big problem right now with people trying to get into the space. There's a lot of pitfalls new comers fall victim to and there's not a lot of education out there. It's really fragmented across the internet. So what we're really trying to do is provide you know really great resources to people that are looking to get into the space. We essentially want to be the on ramp for people looking to get into the crypto space. >> Where you located? >> Louisville, Kentucky. Yeah so it's a different location. I think that's why we stand out quite a bit cause we're trying to bring such a new and disruptive technology to a place that's not so on the leading edge of technology sometimes. >> And you know it's cool about it too is I live in Silicon Valley. It's good to be the epicenter, everyone's got to go to Silicon Valley. The blockchain phenomenon and crypto in general is a global thing. >> It is. >> It is not one place. You can be anywhere. >> Absolutely. >> What are you doing, what are you working on with people? What are some of the things that your projects attacking. >> Yeah so right now we're really working on our educational events. We're really putting together just great content for people to come and join us and really just learn about the tech. We're also working with Andrew Prell from Silica Nexus project. He's having ICO soon and one of the things we're doing for them is really auditing the accounts that they have their tokens in. So they have in their tokenomics they have funds set aside for the team, for the advisors. All these different things and they also have ten investment funds that they're going to be using to essentially get more developers to develop on their project. So we'll be auditing those transactions that they send out just to ensure the transparency and that people know the investors that are putting their money into this project. Know where those funds are going. >> So basically it's an audit trail but it's not code review. So when you do smart contracts, there's one aspect which is code review. >> Yeah. >> And the other side of this, the coin so to speak is the transactional efficiency and affectiveness. >> Yeah no absolutely so if out of this wallet they send ten thousand droids to this developer or this project. We are essentially going to be putting together reports for that. So it's all about auditing and the transparency available. >> So you're automating his system end to end so he can manage it. >> Absolutely. >> Cause alternative is what? What's his alternative. Andrew's in particular. >> Yeah I think he went to the big four and they really didn't know. I guess display enough knowledge about the blockchain, the blockchain explorers and all those things and really came at a high price and so instead of do it themselves. It's something that we do on a regular basis. You know blockchain exploring, just looking up transaction. Second nature to us so I mean it's really good fit and it's an industry first. So really could be a break through for ICOs to come so we're hoping it works out well. >> Enrique how did you get here? What's your journey and tell your story. >> It has been awhile so. So I'm 23 years old, around the age of 20 I started hearing about bitcoin and blockchain. I worked at UPS in the international department in Louisville which if you're not familiar. We have the world port, the biggest automated hub in the world but we were having a lot of problems with the supply chain. You know packages going missing, invoices being fraudulent. A lot of manual paperwork. So really just looking into some of these problems and trying to find a solution. Stumbled into blockchain and really went down the rabbit hole and haven't came up since. I started telling people about it, meeting with people. >> So you became an enthusiast, evangelist. >> Yeah and so I mean it's really grown from me meeting people in restaurants, coffee shops and now we have office. We have eight consultants working with us and really trying to make a national network of people that can just educate. You know investors and individuals on the technology. >> Are you happy you made the move? >> Oh so happy, you know I work for myself now. It's really the happiest I've ever been. I'm passionate about something that could potentially change the world. And so I love the space I'm in. Just being here with so many like minded individuals you know from so many different backgrounds. It really is a beautiful thing that CoinDesk was able to put together here. >> And it's also cool, a lot of new people are coming in. Both old and young. I mean old guys like me and so Dan Bates on just before. We're kindred spirits, we're the old dogs. He's doing real business but the young guns are making it happen too. >> Absolutely. >> So it's not about ageism. Lot of us old system guys know this is all one big operating system. >> Even with our clients, we have people as young as 15 coming in like hey how do I figure this out and 85 people that don't even have email set up. You know want to get involved in this space. I mean we have a wide spectrum of people. >> If you got an AOL account we're ignoring you. Although I just try to turn my on that instead have the throwback. >> That's what it is. >> I got to ask you because one of the things I've really been apart of in my whole life in computer science is open source. Even when I was renegade back in the old days now it's tier one. Open source, cloud computing, has really and open source particular. Really built the idea of a community. >> Absolutely. >> The blockchain community is very small still young tight knit and growing. So as people come in, what's your advice to people entering the community. How thy should align, what should they do? >> Yeah this is something that we have to deal with a lot and so whenever because a lot of the headlines that go around. You know the bitcoin bubble all the crazy gains the lambos. People come in with this mindset that it's a get rick quick thing. You know they want to dump money into the newest ICO or the next big bitcoin and well you really have to educate them on is that this is a long term play. We're still very early in this space. Never invest anything that you're not willing to lose and so a lot of these. We call them the commandments actually just in a podcast episode on them. So there's a lot of just base level things that we try and enlighten our newcomers in. It's been a really great because a lot of people whenever they learn about this technology under the surface. It's just enlightening and so it's been great the community grows. >> A lot of businesses are growing into the community. A lot of people are joining the community but also a big trend is that big business and small medium sized businesses are looking at as an opportunity. So I got to ask you the question right which is I see a lot of people out there that are passing themselves off as code gurus because they bought bitcoin in 2013. >> Oh absolutely. >> They don't, but they haven't actually built anything. >> Yeah. >> So a lot of people are hiring fraudsters. So I'm not saying, there's nothing wrong with trading bitcoin and being involved in the currency. >> Absolutely. >> But the difference between someone who buys currency and builds the next generation with the community. How does someone vet that person? How does some a business owner how do you figure out the pretenders from the players? >> Yeah I think it's really about getting to know the person that you're talking to about this. Seeing how transparent they are, their ideologies, why they're in this space. Why they bought bitcoin a lot of these fundamental questions that you could tell a lot about a person from their answers. Because we've come across that a lot. Whenever reason I started this company is because you know over the past three years or so it's been a lot of trail and error really trying to figure this stuff out. >> I always ask too, what have you built. >> Yeah no absolutely and so we're currently actually in the beta version of a platform that we want to build that's essentially going to allow us to connect these consultants as well as a portfolio tracker but. >> I got to ask you the question. What's the coolest thing you've done? >> The coolest thing I've done, probably getting my pilots license a month after my drivers license in high school. Just in general you'll be able to leave school and go fly planes. All of my best friends were in a class. You know it was really, it was amazing. >> Surreal, Enrique great chatting with you. >> You as well. >> Awesome voice. So glad to have you on the CUBE and good luck with your venture with Andrew Prell. That's cool project and on the things you work on. Best success to you. Enrique Rodriguez here on the CUBE breaking it down. Lot of new action going on, lot of great voices. Lot of talent coming into the community of course it is a community. It's tight knit, it's early growing super fast and as the crypto action. This is the CUBE bringing it all to you. I'm John Furrier we're watching after this short break. We'll be right back.

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022. Brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and cuon cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host Keith towns alongside a new hope en Rico, senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at <inaudible> Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet over zoom calls. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're really impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella, enterprise container management and general manager at SUSE. Welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU coupon. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to microservices, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry. And rancher has been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall and ranchers been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these space stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment. Uh, I spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right. So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want a common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your ES cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers' lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the, the, the class that is managing them, that is, could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and ranch here, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address and a port and some configuration on that. >>It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center. >>So one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on, upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to IPV six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> yeah. >>That doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yeah. Those are numbers, alpha Ric >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough if we wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my SQL database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. It was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got logged four J embedded in like, I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layer. It's like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious and it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just same space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, probably before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was in that container. We're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So Paul, we appreciate chief stopping by from ity of Spain, from Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

>> Instructor: "theCUBE" presents KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2022, brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain and we're at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon Europe 2022. I'm Keith Townsend, and my co-host, Enrico Signoretti. Enrico's really proud of me. I've called him Enrico instead of Enrique every session. >> Every day. >> Senior IT analyst at GigaOm. We're talking to fantastic builders at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon Europe 2022 about the projects and their efforts. Enrico, up to this point, it's been all about provisioning, insecurity, what conversation have we been missing? >> Well, I mean, I think that we passed the point of having the conversation of deployment, of provisioning. Everybody's very skilled, actually everything is done at day two. They are discovering that, well, there is a security problem. There is an observability problem a and in fact, we are meeting with a lot of people and there are a lot of conversation with people really needing to understand what is happening. I mean, in their cluster work, why it is happening and all the questions that come with it. And the more I talk with people in the show floor here or even in the various sessions is about, we are growing so that our clusters are becoming bigger and bigger, applications are becoming bigger as well. So we need to now understand better what is happening. As it's not only about cost, it's about everything at the end. >> So I think that's a great set up for our guests, Matt Provo, founder and CEO of StormForge and Patrick Brixton? >> Bergstrom. >> Bergstrom. >> Yeah. >> I spelled it right, I didn't say it right, Bergstrom, CTO. We're at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon where projects are discussed, built and StormForge, I've heard the pitch before, so forgive me. And I'm kind of torn. I have service mesh. What do I need more, like what problem is StormForge solving? >> You want to take it? >> Sure, absolutely. So it's interesting because, my background is in the enterprise, right? I was an executive at UnitedHealth Group before that I worked at Best Buy and one of the issues that we always had was, especially as you migrate to the cloud, it seems like the CPU dial or the memory dial is your reliability dial. So it's like, oh, I just turned that all the way to the right and everything's hunky-dory, right? But then we run into the issue like you and I were just talking about, where it gets very very expensive very quickly. And so my first conversations with Matt and the StormForge group, and they were telling me about the product and what we're dealing with. I said, that is the problem statement that I have always struggled with and I wish this existed 10 years ago when I was dealing with EC2 costs, right? And now with Kubernetes, it's the same thing. It's so easy to provision. So realistically what it is, is we take your raw telemetry data and we essentially monitor the performance of your application, and then we can tell you using our machine learning algorithms, the exact configuration that you should be using for your application to achieve the results that you're looking for without over-provisioning. So we reduce your consumption of CPU, of memory and production which ultimately nine times out of 10, actually I would say 10 out of 10, reduces your cost significantly without sacrificing reliability. >> So can your solution also help to optimize the application in the long run? Because, yes, of course-- >> Yep. >> The lowering fluid as you know optimize the deployment. >> Yeah. >> But actually the long-term is optimizing the application. >> Yes. >> Which is the real problem. >> Yep. >> So, we're fine with the former of what you just said, but we exist to do the latter. And so, we're squarely and completely focused at the application layer. As long as you can track or understand the metrics you care about for your application, we can optimize against it. We love that we don't know your application, we don't know what the SLA and SLO requirements are for your app, you do, and so, in our world it's about empowering the developer into the process, not automating them out of it and I think sometimes AI and machine learning sort of gets a bad rap from that standpoint. And so, at this point the company's been around since 2016, kind of from the very early days of Kubernetes, we've always been, squarely focused on Kubernetes, using our core machine learning engine to optimize metrics at the application layer that people care about and need to go after. And the truth of the matter is today and over time, setting a cluster up on Kubernetes has largely been solved. And yet the promise of Kubernetes around portability and flexibility, downstream when you operationalize, the complexity smacks you in the face and that's where StormForge comes in. And so we're a vertical, kind of vertically oriented solution, that's absolutely focused on solving that problem. >> Well, I don't want to play, actually. I want to play the devils advocate here and-- >> You wouldn't be a good analyst if you didn't. >> So the problem is when you talk with clients, users, there are many of them still working with Java, something that is really tough. I mean, all of us loved Java. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Maybe 20 years ago. Yeah, but not anymore, but still they have developers, they have porting applications, microservices. Yes, but not very optimized, et cetera, cetera, et cetera. So it's becoming tough. So how you can interact with this kind of old hybrid or anyway, not well engineered applications. >> Yeah. >> We do that today. We actually, part of our platform is we offer performance testing in a lower environment and stage and we, like Matt was saying, we can use any metric that you care about and we can work with any configuration for that application. So perfect example is Java, you have to worry about your heap size, your garbage collection tuning and one of the things that really struck me very early on about the StormForge product is because it is true machine learning. You remove the human bias from that. So like a lot of what I did in the past, especially around SRE and performance tuning, we were only as good as our humans were because of what they knew. And so, we kind of got stuck in these paths of making the same configuration adjustments, making the same changes to the application, hoping for different results. But then when you apply machine learning capability to that the machine will recommend things you never would've dreamed of. And you get amazing results out of that. >> So both me and Enrico have been doing this for a long time. Like, I have battled to my last breath the argument when it's a bare metal or a VM, look, I cannot give you any more memory. >> Yeah. >> And the argument going all the way up to the CIO and the CIO basically saying, you know what, Keith you're cheap, my developer resources are expensive, buy bigger box. >> Yeah. >> Yap. >> Buying a bigger box in the cloud to your point is no longer a option because it's just expensive. >> Yeah. >> Talk to me about the carrot or the stick as developers are realizing that they have to be more responsible. Where's the culture change coming from? Is it the shift in responsibility? >> I think the center of the bullseye for us is within those sets of decisions, not in a static way, but in an ongoing way, especially as the development of applications becomes more and more rapid and the management of them. Our charge and our belief wholeheartedly is that you shouldn't have to choose. You should not have to choose between costs or performance. You should not have to choose where your applications live, in a public private or hybrid cloud environment. And so, we want to empower people to be able to sit in the middle of all of that chaos and for those trade offs and those difficult interactions to no longer be a thing. We're at a place now where we've done hundreds of deployments and never once have we met a developer who said, "I'm really excited to get out of bed and come to work every day and manually tune my application." One side, secondly, we've never met, a manager or someone with budget that said, please don't increase the value of my investment that I've made to lift and shift us over to the cloud or to Kubernetes or some combination of both. And so what we're seeing is the converging of these groups, their happy place is the lack of needing to be able to make those trade offs, and that's been exciting for us. >> So, I'm listening and looks like that your solution is right in the middle in application performance, management, observability. >> Yeah. >> And, monitoring. >> Yeah. >> So it's a little bit of all of this. >> Yeah, so we want to be, the intel inside of all of that, we often get lumped into one of those categories, it used to be APM a lot, we sometimes get, are you observability or and we're really not any of those things, in and of themselves, but we instead we've invested in deep integrations and partnerships with a lot of that tooling 'cause in a lot of ways, the tool chain is hardening in a cloud native and in Kubernetes world. And so, integrating in intelligently, staying focused and great at what we solve for, but then seamlessly partnering and not requiring switching for our users who have already invested likely, in a APM or observability. >> So to go a little bit deeper. What does it mean integration? I mean, do you provide data to this, other applications in the environment or are they supporting you in the work that you do. >> Yeah, we're a data consumer for the most part. In fact, one of our big taglines is take your observability and turn it into action ability, right? Like how do you take that, it's one thing to collect all of the data, but then how do you know what to do with it, right? So to Matt's point, we integrate with folks like Datadog, we integrate with Prometheus today. So we want to collect that telemetry data and then do something useful with it for you. >> But also we want Datadog customers, for example, we have a very close partnership with Datadog so that in your existing Datadog dashboard, now you have-- >> Yeah. >> The StormForge capability showing up in the same location. >> Yep. >> And so you don't have to switch out. >> So I was just going to ask, is it a push pull? What is the developer experience when you say you provide developer this resolve ML learnings about performance, how do they receive it? Like, what's the developer experience. >> They can receive it, for a while we were CLI only, like any good developer tool. >> Right. >> And, we have our own UI. And so it is a push in a lot of cases where I can come to one spot, I've got my applications and every time I'm going to release or plan for a release or I have released and I want to pull in observability data from a production standpoint, I can visualize all of that within the StormForge UI and platform, make decisions, we allow you to set your, kind of comfort level of automation that you're okay with. You can be completely set and forget or you can be somewhere along that spectrum and you can say, as long as it's within, these thresholds, go ahead and release the application or go ahead and apply the configuration. But we also allow you to experience the same, a lot of the same functionality right now, in Grafana, in Datadog and a bunch of others that are coming. >> So I've talked to Tim Crawford who talks to a lot of CIOs and he's saying one of the biggest challenges or if not, one of the biggest challenges CIOs are facing are resource constraints. >> Yeah. >> They cannot find the developers to begin with to get this feedback. How are you hoping to address this biggest pain point for CIOs-- >> Yeah.6 >> And developers? >> You should take that one. >> Yeah, absolutely. So like my background, like I said at UnitedHealth Group, right. It's not always just about cost savings. In fact, the way that I look about at some of these tech challenges, especially when we talk about scalability there's kind of three pillars that I consider, right? There's the tech scalability, how am I solving those challenges? There's the financial piece 'cause you can only throw money at a problem for so long and it's the same thing with the human piece. I can only find so many bodies and right now that pool is very small, and so, we are absolutely squarely in that footprint of we enable your team to focus on the things that they matter, not manual tuning like Matt said. And then there are other resource constraints that I think that a lot of folks don't talk about too. Like, you were talking about private cloud for instance and so having a physical data center, I've worked with physical data centers that companies I've worked for have owned where it is literally full, wall to wall. You can't rack any more servers in it, and so their biggest option is, well, I could spend $1.2 billion to build a new one if I wanted to, or if you had a capability to truly optimize your compute to what you needed and free up 30% of your capacity of that data center. So you can deploy additional name spaces into your cluster, like that's a huge opportunity. >> So I have another question. I mean, maybe it doesn't sound very intelligent at this point, but, so is it an ongoing process or is it something that you do at the very beginning, I mean you start deploying this. >> Yeah. >> And maybe as a service. >> Yep. >> Once in a year I say, okay, let's do it again and see if something change it. >> Sure. >> So one spot, one single.. >> Yeah, would you recommend somebody performance test just once a year? Like, so that's my thing is, at previous roles, my role was to do performance test every single release, and that was at a minimum once a week and if your thing did not get faster, you had to have an executive exception to get it into production and that's the space that we want to live in as well as part of your CICD process, like this should be continuous verification, every time you deploy, we want to make sure that we're recommending the perfect configuration for your application in the name space that you're deploying into. >> And I would be as bold as to say that we believe that we can be a part of adding, actually adding a step in the CICD process that's connected to optimization and that no application should be released, monitored, and sort of analyzed on an ongoing basis without optimization being a part of that. And again, not just from a cost perspective, but for cost and performance. >> Almost a couple of hundred vendors on this floor. You mentioned some of the big ones Datadog, et cetera, but what happens when one of the up and comings out of nowhere, completely new data structure, some imaginative way to click to telemetry data. >> Yeah. >> How do, how do you react to that? >> Yeah, to us it's zeros and ones. >> Yeah. >> And, we really are data agnostic from the standpoint of, we're fortunate enough from the design of our algorithm standpoint, it doesn't get caught up on data structure issues, as long as you can capture it and make it available through one of a series of inputs, one would be load or performance tests, could be telemetry, could be observability, if we have access to it. Honestly, the messier the better from time to time from a machine learning standpoint, it's pretty powerful to see. We've never had a deployment where we saved less than 30%, while also improving performance by at least 10%. But the typical results for us are 40 to 60% savings and 30 to 40% improvement in performance. >> And what happens if the application is, I mean, yes Kubernetes is the best thing of the world but sometimes we have to, external data sources or, we have to connect with external services anyway. >> Yeah. >> So, can you provide an indication also on this particular application, like, where the problem could be? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and that's absolutely one of the things that we look at too, 'cause it's, especially when you talk about resource consumption it's never a flat line, right? Like depending on your application, depending on the workloads that you're running it varies from sometimes minute to minute, day to day, or it could be week to week even. And so, especially with some of the products that we have coming out with what we want to do, integrating heavily with the HPA and being able to handle some of those bumps and not necessarily bumps, but bursts and being able to do it in a way that's intelligent so that we can make sure that, like I said, it's the perfect configuration for the application regardless of the time of day that you're operating in or what your traffic patterns look like, or, what your disc looks like, right. Like 'cause with our low environment testing, any metric you throw at us, we can optimize for. >> So Matt and Patrick, thank you for stopping by. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> We can go all day because day two is I think the biggest challenge right now, not just in Kubernetes but application re-platforming and transformation, very, very difficult. Most CTOs and EASs that I talked to, this is the challenge space. From Valencia, Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, along with my host Enrico Signoretti and you're watching "theCube" the leader in high-tech coverage. (whimsical music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and con cloud native con 20 Europe, 2022. I'm your host, Keith Townson alongside a new host en Rico senior reti, senior editor. I'm sorry, senior it analyst at giong Enrique. Welcome to the program. >>Thank you very much. And thank you for having me. It's exciting. >>So thoughts, high level thoughts of CU con first time in person again in couple years? >>Well, this is amazing for several reasons. And one of the reasons is that yeah, I had the chance to meet, uh, with, uh, you know, people like you again. I mean, we, we met several times over the internet, over zoom codes. I, I started to eat these zoom codes. <laugh> because they're very impersonal in the end. And like last night we, we are together group of friends, industry folks. It's just amazing. And a part of that, I mean, the event is, uh, is a really cool, it's really cool. There are a lot from people interviews and, you know, real people doing real stuff, not just, uh, you know, again, in personal calls, you don't even know if they're telling the truth, but when you can, you know, look in their eyes, what they're doing, I, I think that's makes a difference. >>So speaking about real people, meeting people for the first time, new jobs, new roles, Greg Moscarella enterprise container management in general manager at SUSE, welcome to the show, welcome back clue belong. >>Thank you very much. It's awesome to be here. It's awesome to be back in person. And I completely agree with you. Like there's a certain fidelity to the conversation and a certain, uh, ability to get to know people a lot more. So it's absolutely fantastic to be here. >>So Greg, tell us about your new role and what SUSE has gone on at KU con. >>Sure. So I joined SA about three months ago to lead the rancher business unit, right? So our container management pieces and, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic time. Cause if you look at the transition from virtual machines to containers and to moving to micro services, right alongside that transition from on-prem to cloud, like this is a very exciting time to be in this industry and rancher's been setting the stage. And again, I'm go back to being here. Rancher's all about the community, right? So this is a very open, independent, uh, community driven product and project. And so this, this is kinda like being back to our people, right. And being able to reconnect here. And so, you know, doing it, digital is great, but, but being here is changes the game for us. So we, we feed off that community. We feed off the energy. So, uh, and again, going back to the space and what's happening in it, great time to be in this space. And you guys have seen the transitions you've seen, I mean, we've seen just massive adoption, uh, of containers and Kubernetes overall, and rancher has been been right there with some amazing companies doing really interesting things that I'd never thought of before. Uh, so I'm, I'm still learning on this, but, um, but it's been great so far. >>Yeah. And you know, when we talk about strategy about Kubernetes today, we are talking about very broad strategies. I mean, not just the data center or the cloud with, you know, maybe smaller organization adopting Kubernetes in the cloud, but actually large organization thinking guide and more and more the edge. So what's your opinion on this, you know, expansion of Kubernetes towards the edge. >>So I think you're, I think you're exactly right. And that's actually a lot of meetings I've been having here right now is these are some of these interesting use cases. So people who, uh, whether it be, you know, ones that are easy to understand in the telco space, right? Especially the adoption of 5g and you have all these base stations, new towers, and they have not only the core radio functions or network functions that they're trying to do there, but they have other applications that wanna run on that same environment, uh, spoke recently with some of our, our good friends at a major automotive manufacturer, doing things in their factories, right. That can't take the latency of being somewhere else. Right? So they have robots on the factory floor, the latency that they would experience if they tried to run things in the cloud meant that robot would've moved 10 centimeters. >>By the time, you know, the signal got back, it may not seem like a lot to you, but if, if, if you're an employee, you know, there, you know, uh, a big 2000 pound robot being 10 centimeters closer to you may not be what you, you really want. Um, there's, there's just a tremendous amount of activity happening out there on the retail side as well. So it's, it's amazing how people are deploying containers in retail outlets. You know, whether it be fast food and predicting, what, what, how many French fries you need to have going at this time of day with this sort of weather. Right. So you can make sure those queues are actually moving through. It's, it's, it's really exciting and interesting to look at all the different applications that are happening. So yes, on the edge for sure, in the public cloud, for sure. In the data center and we're finding is people want to common platform across those as well. Right? So for the management piece too, but also for security and for policies around these things. So, uh, it really is going everywhere. >>So talk to me, how do, how are we managing that as we think about pushing stuff out of the data center, out of the cloud cloud, closer to the edge security and life cycle management becomes like top of mind thought as, as challenges, how is rancher and sushi addressing >>That? Yeah. So I, I think you're, again, spot on. So it's, it starts off with the think of it as simple, but it's, it's not simple. It's the provisioning piece. How do we just get it installed and running right then to what you just asked the management piece of it, everything from your firmware to your operating system, to the, the cluster, uh, the Kubernetes cluster, that's running on that. And then the workloads on top of that. So with rancher, uh, and with the rest of SUSE, we're actually tacking all those parts of the problems from bare metal on up. Uh, and so we have lots of ways for deploying that operating system. We have operating systems that are, uh, optimized for the edge, very secure and ephemeral container images that you can build on top of. And then we have rancher itself, which is not only managing your Kubernetes cluster, but can actually start to manage the operating system components, uh, as well as the workload components. >>So all from your single interface, um, we mentioned policy and security. So we, yeah, we'll probably talk about it more, um, uh, in a little bit, but, but new vector, right? So we acquired a company called new vector, just open sourced, uh, that here in January, that ability to run that level of, of security software everywhere again, is really important. Right? So again, whether I'm running it on, whatever my favorite public cloud providers, uh, managed Kubernetes is, or out at the edge, you still have to have security, you know, in there. And, and you want some consistency across that. If you have to have a different platform for each of your environments, that's just upping the complexity and the opportunity for error. So we really like to eliminate that and simplify our operators and developers lives as much as possible. >>Yeah. From this point of view, are you implying that even you, you are matching, you know, self, uh, let's say managed clusters at the, at the very edge now with, with, you know, added security, because these are the two big problems lately, you know, so having something that is autonomous somehow easier to manage, especially if you are deploying hundreds of these that's micro clusters. And on the other hand, you need to know a policy based security that is strong enough to be sure again, if you have these huge robots moving too close to you, because somebody act the class that is managing them, that could be a huge problem. So are you, you know, approaching this kind of problems? I mean, is it, uh, the technology that you are acquired, you know, ready to, to do this? >>Yeah. I, I mean, it, it really is. I mean, there's still a lot of innovation happening. Don't, don't get me wrong. We're gonna see a lot of, a lot more, not just from, from SA and rancher, but from the community, right. There's a lot happening there, but we've come a long way and we've solved a lot of problems. Uh, if I think about, you know, how do you have this distributed environment? Uh, well, some of it comes down to not just, you know, all the different environments, but it's also the applications, you know, with microservices, you have very dynamic environment now just with your application space as well. So when we think about security, we really have to evolve from a fairly static policy where like, you might even be able to set an IP address in a port and some configuration on that. It's like, well, your workload's now dynamically moving. >>So not only do you have to have that security capability, like the ability to like, look at a process or look at a network connection and stop it, you have to have that, uh, manageability, right? You can't expect an operator or someone to like go in and manually configure a YAML file, right? Because things are changing too fast. It needs to be that combination of convenient, easy to manage with full function and ability to protect your, your, uh, your resources. And I think that's really one of the key things that new vector really brings is because we have so much intelligence about what's going on there. Like the configuration is pretty high level, and then it just runs, right? So it's used to this dynamic environment. It can actually protect your workloads wherever it's going from pod to pod. Uh, and it's that, that combination, again, that manageability with that high functionality, um, that, that is what's making it so popular. And what brings that security to those edge locations or cloud locations or your data center >>Mm-hmm <affirmative> so one of the challenges you're kind of, uh, touching on is this abstraction on upon abstraction. When I, I ran my data center, I could put, uh, say this IP address, can't talk to this IP address on this port. Then I got next generation firewalls where I could actually do, uh, some analysis. Where are you seeing the ball moving to when it comes to customers, thinking about all these layers of abstraction I IP address doesn't mean anything anymore in cloud native it's yes, I need one, but I'm not, I'm not protecting based on IP address. How are customers approaching security from the name space perspective? >>Well, so it's, you're absolutely right. In fact, even when you go to I P six, like, I don't even recognize IP addresses anymore. <laugh> >>Yeah. Doesn't mean anything like, oh, just a bunch of, yes, those are numbers, ER, >>And colons. Right. You know, it's like, I don't even know anymore. Right. So, um, yeah, so it's, it comes back to that, moving from a static, you know, it's the pets versus cattle thing. Right? So this static thing that I can sort of know and, and love and touch and kind of protect to this almost living, breathing thing, which is moving all around, it's a swarm of, you know, pods moving all over the place. And so, uh, it, it is, I mean, that's what Kubernetes has done for the workload side of it is like, how do you get away from, from that, that pet to a declarative approach to, you know, identifying your workload and the components of that workload and what it should be doing. And so if we go on the security side some more like, yeah, it's actually not even namespace namespace. >>Isn't good enough. We wanna get, if we wanna get to zero trust, it's like, just cuz you're running in my namespace doesn't mean I trust you. Right. So, and that's one of the really cool things about new vectors because of the, you know, we're looking at protocol level stuff within the network. So it's pod to pod, every single connection we can look at and it's at the protocol layer. So if you say you're on my database and I have a mye request going into it, I can confirm that that's actually a mye protocol being spoken and it's well formed. Right. And I know that this endpoint, you know, which is a, uh, container image or a pod name or some, or a label, even if it's in the same name, space is allowed to talk to and use this protocol to this other pod that's running in my same name space. >>Right. So I can either allow or deny. And if I can, I can look into the content that request and make sure it's well formed. So I'll give you an example is, um, do you guys remember the log four J challenges from not too long ago, right. Was, was a huge deal. So if I'm doing something that's IP and port based and name space based, so what are my protections? What are my options for something that's got log four J embedded in like I either run the risk of it running or I shut it down. Those are my options. Like those neither one of those are very good. So we can do, because again, we're at the protocol layers like, ah, I can identify any log for J protocol. I can look at whether it's well formed, you know, or if it's malicious, if it's malicious, I can block it. If it's well formed, I can let it go through. So I can actually look at those, those, um, those vulnerabilities. I don't have to take my service down. I can run and still be protected. And so that, that extra level, that ability to kind of peek into things and also go pod to pod, you know, not just name space level is one of the key differences. So I talk about the evolution or how we're evolving with, um, with the security. Like we've grown a lot, we've got a lot more coming. >>So let's talk about that a lot more coming what's in the pipeline for SUSE. >>Well, how, before I get to that, we just announced new vector five. So maybe I can catch us up on what was released last week. Uh, and then we can talk a little bit about going, going forward. So new vector five, introduce something called um, well, several things, but one of the things I can talk in more detail about is something called zero drift. So I've been talking about the network security, but we also have run time security, right? So any, any container that's running within your environment has processes that are running that container. What we can do is actually comes back to that manageability and configuration. We can look at the root level of trust of any process that's running. And as long as it has an inheritance, we can let that process run without any extra configuration. If it doesn't have a root level of trust, like it didn't spawn from whatever the, a knit, um, function was and that container we're not gonna let it run. Uh, so the, the configuration that you have to put in there is, is a lot simpler. Um, so that's something that's in, in new vector five, um, the web application firewall. So this layer seven security inspection has gotten a lot more granular now. So it's that pod Topo security, um, both for ingress egress and internal on the cluster. Right. >>So before we get to what's in the pipeline, one question around new vector, how is that consumed and deployed? >>How is new vector consumed, >>Deployed? And yeah, >>Yeah, yeah. So, uh, again with new vector five and, and also rancher 2 65, which just were released, there's actually some nice integration between them. So if I'm a rancher customer and I'm using 2 65, I can actually just deploy that new vector with a couple clicks of the button in our, uh, in our marketplace. And we're actually tied into our role-based access control. So an administrator who has that has the rights can just click they're now in a new vector interface and they can start setting those policies and deploying those things out very easily. Of course, if you aren't using, uh, rancher, you're using some other, uh, container management platform, new vector still works. Awesome. You can deploy it there still in a few clicks. Um, you're just gonna get into, you have to log into your new vector, uh, interface and, and use it from there. >>So that's how it's deployed. It's, it's very, it's very simple to use. Um, I think what's actually really exciting about that too, is we've opensourced it? Um, so it's available for anyone to go download and try, and I would encourage people to give it a go. Uh, and I think there's some compelling reasons to do that now. Right? So we have pause security policies, you know, depreciated and going away, um, pretty soon in, in Kubernetes. And so there's a few things you might look at to make sure you're still able to run a secure environment within Kubernetes. So I think it's a great time to look at what's coming next, uh, for your security within your Kubernetes. >>So, Paul, we appreciate you stopping by from ity of Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with en Rico Sinte. Thank you. And you're watching the, the leader in high tech coverage.

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome to the Cubes Live coverage here in Mountain View, California Computer History Museum for Cisco's definite create on John for your host here with Lisa Martin, she's taking a break. Is out getting stories out around for our national Paul Giblin, who's an enterprise architect at Presidio, formerly on the Q Before Cube alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> That's great. CIA's. Well, thank you for >> what? I was looking for this interview because last time we chat with all my cloud hybrid cloud. Now, as an enterprise architect, you're in the middle of all the conversations around how enterprises and commercial businesses are leveraging the cloud multi cloud hybrid cloud. A lot of hype, a lot of reality. But the one thing that's clear is the cloud Cos air blowing away the financial operating performances. Amazon released their earnings today. Amazing financial performance. Amazon Web services have the profit of all of Amazon Amazing. Since they only start in two thousand six, Microsoft change their business plan from being, you know, Hon premise solution software to cloud trillion dollar market cap. It goes on and on and on. But it's a tell sign of the wave that's happening in that is computing network architectures air all transforming an application. Modernization. Tsunami is coming. Renaissance of applications are happening. >> This is a big >> part of what you do when definite creates a Cisco's version of Hey, guys, we got to create the future. Sure, this is the reality. What's your take on all this thes big waves and activity? >> Yeah, I think you know, there's certainly a ton of activity going on around multi cloud, especially with, you know, Amazon. And as your GP uh definite is really a hub for it from the perspective of Cisco. So if you look at the things that people are talking about here this year is supposed to last year, it's It's totally different. Last year, people we're talking >> about Well, how >> do I D ?'Oh, my collaboration absent anyway. And how do I modernized my data center with answerable inscription? Things like that. And this year people are talking about blockchain. They're talking about multi cloud. They're talking about machine learning. There's their spokes over there talking about graft intense airflow and things like that. So what I really like about this event is the fact that it's people who are on the bleeding edge and are thinking about the new thing today before it becomes mainstream. >> Is a great point. Suzy We was on earlier. She's ahead of definite definite create and she had a great team. But one of the things that she said to me, and unless I get your reaction to this is you know she's had research roles in HP, but labs back in the day. So >> you have those research. It's the next big wave coming here. It's really >> people in the bleeding edge who were making it real. So it's not just, you know, some way that's coming. It's actually happening so far. This event really kind of points to what's really now. Your job is you make stuff real right. So you've got a kind of thread. The line between okay, bleeding edge hyper reality and kind of wire it up for customers with Presidio. So you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to do the right thing. You got architect it out. This is kind of where the game is right now. So what's the experience that you're seeing in the real world as this stuff start to become really, as customers want to create better APS better network architectures kind of retrenching happening? What's your What's your thoughts? Whats the key highlights. >> I think people are struggling with decisions around. You know what, what cloud do I put my work loads in? Do I put them in a cloud at all? What workloads do I keep on premise when I'm making these decisions, how do I get these APS to the different places they need to live? How do I have an app that might be stretched from my own premise data center to Azure or to a ws? How do I keep that secure? How doe I network that together? How do I make sure that I'm not the next big headline in the next big reach that comes around So those air, some of the challenges that are out there and they're all things that are difficult to navigate because every organizations a little bit different in terms of the skill sets that they have. So you've got some folks who are right at home. You know, doing a twelve fact, their app on going full on cloud, native and, you know, putting stuff all out on Amazon and not think twice about it. And then you've got a lot of organizations who maybe don't have mature depth shops and have a lot of legacy infrastructure. Folks who still need to retool Enrique it to get up to speed, to bring everything together. >> So skilled gap big time. >> Oh, yeah, >> that's for you guys. Come in. I want to get caught before we came on to talk here live. We're talking off camera around the Gerson Enterprise and a commercial business and the distinction between their needs Enterprise. I was in more complex, you know, multi campus multinational, potentially to commercial businesses. I won't say small music, but people were like pretty much smaller scale. Can you just par set out and talk about what we chatted about the distance between the commercial and the teens and challenging opportunities they have? Visa VI Say it. Enterprise. >> I think it comes down to a lot of the things that we do today are designed to make things simpler. That's not always the case. Sometimes, in order to make it simple. You have to do a very hard thing under the covers to get it that way in the first place. And for a small commercial organization, that's not always the easiest thing in the world. They're typically resource constrained, and their business is not running. Their business is generating revenue through whatever it is that they do now. On enterprise is a little bit different, and enterprise has multiple different revenue streams coming in from multiple different businesses. And they're typically much more invested in a much larger IT staff and have folks who are multi discipline, you know, interface with their peers. Have enough resource is to really, truly adopt a dead mobster. >> Got network team security teams the whole nine yards, I think Chief data officer, all that stuff, commercial organizations Now again, Great opportunity for cloud on both fronts, right? You got enterprises. It kind of would have nicked mixed of public cloud for cloud native work clothes, maybe clean sheet of paper brand new use case hybrid where they won't have operating on premise and then multi cloud that might have azure for three sixty five office and then run Amazon for this or they're so multi cloud seems to be a reality. On one front, commercial organizations seemed tohave cloud on their mind. But legacy apse that they've written software for that might have been written in order, entry system or, you know, some sort of work flow that's tailored for, say, the revenue. How do you advise those two scenarios? >> Yeah, I mean, if you've got a legacy app that you need to contend with, one of the first things you need to do is understand the APP itself. We're having a conversation earlier on what we talked about wass. There's organizations out there who have these applications, and the people who wrote those applications have long ago left. So you've got some new software developers who were coming in. They don't have contextual history, and then you've got infrastructure. People who are keeping the ship afloat but don't know how it floats. They don't understand displacement. >> So you've got these new folks coming in, and then we write our own. We get new ABS higher team. What do we hire ex A. You know, exactly exactly. So you know, there's a decision that >> needs to be made to do. We continue to run this on Prem, Do we consider re platforming in trying to move it out to the cloud Tio? We start fresh and try and re factor. Do we do this in the house? Do we pull in an external third party that try and do that for us? So all the challenges >> so about the relation with Cisco also your party with them you're here a definite create your also a participant in the community. They got definite, which is their core developer. Coming a couple years old. Definite create five years old, Definite creates kind of like brings in the creator's side of it. A za practitioner. Pardon Francisco here to learn and then bring that home to apply to Presidio. How does that work? Explain the folks. How does Presidio were? Francisco. How do you take stuff from definite definite create? How do you commercialize that for your business? And what's the impact of the customer? Sure. >> So it's It's more organic than you might think. So we've got a whole contention of folks here, especially, and I'm going to give a big shout out to our women intact. You were here on DH. These folks are going in there checking out the things that they're into. Is it in? And like I said, there's a diverse group of sessions that are out there spanning machine, learning to blockchain to wish there's somebody right behind us here, I think talking about, >> uh, >> hioki >> it's not a security >> threat somewhere way, air gap, That thing. Yeah, >> So these things folks are sitting in on the sessions that are of interest to them and they're going back to Presidio. And we've got internal WebEx team spaces where all of our folks who are interested in any kind of depth sit down to collaborate. And we are also, you know, maintaining our own internal code repositories where anybody who wants to go take a look at some of the intellectual property we're developing. I can go pull that asset, communicate with the person who's working on it, manipulate it, put it back all that way, also have, you know, sponsorship from the top on down. So from Thomas all the way down it, it's We know that the next generation of engineers need to understand on some level program ability, concepts, and this is a great way to adjust that, >> and this is this is a strategic and parent management behind it. Program ability gives off for some advantages. What's your take on it? I know you. You talk about in the last Cuban. If you want to just come back to the automation opportunity because, you know, let's just face it. Command line interface is how we ran things in networks over the years. But now, with program ability, that's more higher yield activities that architects and network guys and developers can work on. Then the mundane tasks go on. Now if you can program things, certainly with WiFi six and MURAKI, it's all one network. So why not have that visibility to the data? Why not program stuff to make life easier? Your thoughts on this and how it's playing out? >> I think it's, uh, it's playing out slowly and in pockets. I think there's a lot of folks who are working on these kinds of concepts, but they tend to be isolated. So from a network engineer and I come to an event like this, I'm probably going to go back to whatever my day job is, and I might write some of my own code. But unless you have some of those facilities in place that I talked about us having in Presidio, it's difficult to share what you're doing with others on. If it's difficult to share what you're doing with others, she's kind of out on an island, right, so you might have efficiencies that you're gaining. But if you are not taking that and sharing it with other people, your company may not be arriving the full benefit. Now. I think as an individual you could do a lot of good by automating things that you do, which enables you as an individual to focus on even more. But when you look at some of the cool stuff that's out there that could be shared, like the Iraqi demo for the A R looking at access points, that's just phenomenal capability That brings great benefit to a lot of different people. >> So you guys had success with a lot of sharing the collaboration internally, absolute with with the tools you've built. What's the the verdict you guys mentioned? You have some divers, folks here, women in tech, What's the president's here for city like a definite create this year what some of the key highlights from you guys. >> So I think we've got a couple of presenters way have one new definite creator, Mabel. And so she's Ah, believe second female definite creator and the first for Presidio. Jeff and I had taken those down last year and you know, she's she's fantastic. She's running weekly courses for the women and organization to teach them on these concepts. And she's a powerhouse Amazing s o way. Like I said, we have that whole contingent of women in Tech who are here. We've got a handful of gentlemen who are here as well, including Jeff eleven sailor, who you interviewed yesterday, and Greg and use Ellie, both of whom have multiple presentation's going on all standing room only s O. We're definitely invested in different >> directions on the women Tech thing. I think that's huge. I think that's the inclusion thing, that we'd love to see it again. You know, numbers, air still with the percentages, need a lot more work. I mean, just bring in more women and breathes more action. Mohr capabilities. More results. >> Absolutely. I'm all in on women in tech. I have three daughters, so I mean, naturally invested. I'm tryingto help create the world Anyway, I can where they can grow up. And I walked right into a meeting and not have Tio contend with some of the >> democratization of technology is really what it's all about. And, you know, you're not really anything in this community. Let's getem Iraqi, huh? But your house running all your surveillance cameras >> you got in fact are a camera >> app that identifies sexual predators. So I'm gonna have those hanging over my front door now. Nobody's coming anywhere near that. >> That's better than ring. Certainly go in the shark tank pitch that maybe ***. Paul, Thanks for coming on. Great to see you again and congratulate you. Sex distinct, distinct success. Distinguished engineer Now for Ciccio Great company. Give a quick point for the coming. What's going on? Presidio? What do you guys are doing? What kind of work you doing? And how'd people contact you? >> I >> need to be a formal marketeer to do any of this stuff. So, you know >> video is >> authentic and it's real. >> We're We're a three billion dollar organization. We've got three thousand some odd individuals, over half of whom are are certified engineers way. Do everything from cloud Teo I ot to traditional infrastructure collaboration. We've got a huge security practice manage services practice. We do financing s so we really try to be a one stop shop for just about anything. I related a >> lot of creation going on the community here, and I think one of the things that's great is this all about making it really taking the way. That's everyone's riding, getting it, really making it work. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> Cube coverage here, here in Mountain View. I'm John Forward the Cube with Lisa Martin here covering Day two of definite create stay with more live coverage after this short break.

(upbeat tropical music) >> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's The Cube, covering Blockchain Unbound, brought to you be Blockchain Industries. (upbeat tropical music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome to this special Cube conversation. We are on the ground in Puerto Rico for Blockchain Unbound and Restart Week, a variety of blockchain, cryptocurrency, industry events, a lot of action here. All the thought leaders, the pioneers, a lot of the people making it happen, from entrepreneurs to the investors, and entrepreneurs who made it in bitcoin blockchain, as well as participants in the local community. Our next guest is Michael Angelo, the co-founder of EDU Block, Edublock.io, EDUblock.io. Interesting story here, he's got a school chain, I call it, going around. Michael, welcome to the conversation. >> It's great to be here. >> So talk about what you guys do. And I think it's super fascinating, you guys are creating a value chain with the university system. Obviously, you know, the first thing that jumps to mind is, hey, it's like the internet. Connect the internet with TCP/IP and next thing you know, the internet's born, the web is born. You're doing something really fascinating with your project, connecting the universities here in Puerto Rico. Take a minute to explain what you're working on. >> Okay, so, Edublock is an educational platform based in Puerto Rico. So what we're doing is, we're connecting every single university in the island to work on open-source projects, to make solutions for the private sector. >> And so you're enabling this actual connectedness, so you got the blockchain which can enable that, cryptocurrency in Puerto Rico is certainly hot. A lot of the ecosystem blending in, coming into the country, into the area; people are excited. What's going on in the front lines? As the young kids are looking at this revolution, this is a massive wave, they've got to be inspired. They've got to look at this as an opportunity. What's some of the things that you're seeing on the front-lines, there? >> Okay, well let me tell you. So, people are scared here. So, Edublock wants to create transparency in blockchain and make people trust us and trust the movement. So we see a bunch of people coming here, and we see a tremendous potential for the island. We could become an emerging market through blockchain technology. But people are scared. Most people come here and they talk about the how and the what, so Edublock wants to talk about the why. So, why is... We want to educate, we want to make this transparent. We want to change the lives of a bunch of people, teach them, so they can become the next world leaders. >> And really, enabling them with tools. So Brock Pierce gave the keynote here, to the kickoff of Blockchain Unbound, as part of a kind of a pitch competition with d10e. Great message, power of we, not me, is really what makes it happen. Paying it forward, cultural ethos. It's global, so this whole global economy's shaping. This is an opportunity for a digital nation to emerge. How do you guys talk about that? The young guys going in there, the developers. The trust needs to be there. What are some of the things people are working on? What kind of things do you imagine happening with Edublock? What are some of the things on your mind, there? >> Okay, so basically what we're doing is, anyone who's coming here in the island, we're just asking them, if you want outreach, you have an ICO, you have a big project, so we have this ecosystem that's running. We have software developers, and you want to teach people. So if you have your ICOs, you have a project, you give it to us, we just lay it down in the ecosystem and see how it works, trial and error. And it's a win-win, 'cause it's free. So you win, you win the expansion here in the island, and we win knowledge. >> So basically, you guys are opening up your arms, saying, hey, throw us what you got, we'll kick the tires, we'll give it a dry run, we'll give you feedback, there's some learnings that are shared. Is that kind of the thing you guys are thinking about? Is that what you're referring to? >> Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing as of now. So we have few projects, we're working with ListCoin, and we have a few ICOs of ourselves, that I cannot go into details right now. But some big projects, that I think some software developers in the island that have talent, could work on, and just develop. >> Michael, talk about who's working with you guys. Who's helping you out? Give some shout-outs, who's involved in the project, what kind of momentum do you have? And what are you guys looking for, for continued support? >> So, we're looking for people that come to the island and have big ICOs. We're looking to just speak with them, see if they could give us some feedback on what we have to do to move along this project. So we're working with Link Puerto Rico, it's a software development company here in the island. So they're helping us with the curriculum. So we're working hands-on with ICOs, but we also want to teach. So we have to make a curriculum. So we teach people that have no idea. The other day, we had an event where we taught 50 people how to create a smart contract from scratch. Those are 50 people who are not the same anymore. So we're working with Brock Pierce, he's going to be one of the main speakers at our event. We're going to have an event the 17th. You can register at Edublock.eo, it's totally free. Why did this event come to be? So, we have Blockchain Unbound, right? So it's about $1,000. So most people want to be part of this event that can't be. Most humans, that's too of a hefty pay. >> John: Yeah, it's a lot of cash. >> It's a lot of cash. You know, $1,000 is food; $1,000 is gas, a whole semester is $1,000. So what we did was, we grabbed 14 main speakers from Blockchain Unbound, Enrique Martinez, Brock Pierce, ListCoin, ArtCoin, they're going to be talking about microgrids, about housing. So we got a university, we have the people. It's free, so anyone can come. All you have to do is register at Edublock.io. >> Great stuff, Michael, this is fantastic. I love what you're doing, and I'm really thankful you're doing it. And because, when you get people together, magic happens. And I think what's really exciting is that the market is accepting that now. And Brock talked about that on stage today, here at Blockchain Unbound, announcing his restart venture fund. 100% dedicated to entrepreneurs. And he's structuring it in a way, where... I mean, not a lot of preference here. So he gets a little bit carved out for the managers of the fund, and they got some lot of cash they're managing. But it's all about feeding the entrepreneurial ecosystem for venture development. >> And that's great, that's why Edublock has to be a thing. 'Cause we are the educational system in the island. And so, if this is a movement that's happening here, and this is going to become the epicenter of this multi-billion dollar market, we need to have people prepared for this. We have to create the transparency. So that's why Edublock is such an important thing, here in the island. >> I love what you're doing, the young people. I see it in Silicon Valley, all around the United States and around the world. Trust matters, reputation matters, who you work with matters. And I love your project. It reminds me of when I interviewed Vint Cerf many years ago, father of the internet. TCP/IP connected three universities, four universities, five universities, and then multiple universities. That became the backbone for the internet. I see what you're doing as something as game-changing. You can connect the universities and then the curriculum, and keep it decentralized, no central authority, you have the trust and you have the voices of the people and software and applications. That's super fantastic. >> By the way, I just want to say something right now. You don't have to be a software developer to be in Edublock. So, most people are scared that if they aren't a programmer, they don't have experience, the don't know solidity, they can't be part of Edublock. The thing is, we're teaching from scratch, as well. We're working with software, we're working with hardware, we're working with a team of daily traders. Miners, we're going to teach how to make GPU, how to make an A6 from scratch. So you're going to learn a lot of things, and it's free. >> Great point. That brings up the community question. Because the point is, you don't have to be a coder. You're in the community. So, I want to ask you, what is the community like right now? What's it look like? It sounds like it's robust, it's active. What do you and the guys hope to do with the development of the community? >> Okay so the community, I would say it's divided, as of now. So most people are scared, they don't know what's going on. Most people that come here start off with the what, the how, and people are scared. But the young people, are like, yo, this is happening. This is not a moment, this is a movement. This is a movement and they're just so happy to be part of it. >> Well, I got to tell ya, as an old guy like me, I've seen many waves. When the waves come, you jump on it. And I'm so excited that you're doing what you're doing. Appreciate what you're doing. Michael Angelo, co-founder of EDU block.io, Edublock.io. They have a big event on the 17th, if you want to check it out. We're going to try to do a swing by with The Cube, but congratulations. Bringing the content to the masses, that's our job at The Cube, that's what we do, that's our mission. And thanks for taking this time, appreciate it. >> Of course. >> I'm John Furrier, with The Cube. Thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)

>> [Voiceover] Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCube, covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're live here in Palo Alto, California inside theCube's new studios, 4500 square feet in Palo Alto, just opened up last month and excited to be here. Breaking down Mobile World Congress all day, from 8 a.m. to 6, today and tomorrow. As their day ends, we're going to pick up the coverage, do the analysis, get some commentary and reaction to all the news and also the big trends and my next guest here in the studio is Saar Gillai, friend of the Cube, Cube alumni, and former HPE Senior Vice President GM of the teleco business. Ran the cloud, then a variety of things with Meg Whitman at HPE, now he's independent board member and in between gigs on the beach, clipping coupons as we say, Saar, great to see you, looking good. >> Great to be here, nice studio. >> I'm excited that you could come in, this is exactly why we're having our show here in this new studio because a lot of folks that don't take the big trek to Barcelona who don't have to can come in and talk to us and you've been a veteran of Mobile World Congress for many years. Again, you ran, and actually built the cloud biz and also built the, I won't say NFV biz, but essentially the teleco communications division for HPE so you know a lot about what's happening in the industry and more importantly Mobile World Congress. This is the year that all the accelerant is coming to the table, all the rocket fuel is being poured out on to the bonfire, the matches are going to be lit, it's called 5G, it's called IOT, internet of things, internet of people, the devices look good, they all want to be Apple, they all want to be over the top, running entertainment, smart cities, cars, 5G is the holy grail, we're done. But seriously, where is the meat on the bone on this thing? Is it real, is this transformation hype or reality at Mobile World Congress? >> Yes. (laughing) >> Yes, hype or yes, it's real? >> There's a lot of hype, but there's some reality. I mean I think first of all, 5G is the latest thing, it used to be LTE, now it's 5G. What does 5G actually mean? Really, for people, what 5G means is you should have a lot more capacity, right? So 5G talks about even up to one gigabit in certain cases, lower latency and so forth. Now the thing about wireless is you know, there's no secrets in wireless, okay? It's not like... >> It's a physics game. >> ...Yeah, it's physics, it's not like ethernet, where you can go from one meg to 10 meg then all you have to do is run more line and you're good. If that was so easy in wireless right now, we'd all be getting one gigabyte right, but we're not. So the only way you increase capacity in wireless is through smaller cells, and there are some mimo technologies and so forth. You know, 5G talks abouts technologies that will enable you to do that, but it's much more of an evolution than revolution and people need to understand that. There's no fundamental shift, what they're talking about in 5G is adding a lot more bandwidth. Today, most of the frequencies being used are sub five gigahertz, those are great frequencies to go through walls, they're not that great in terms of capacity and there's not that much of them. Like AT&T might have 60 megahertz, that's the entire capacity they have in the U.S. And that's not much. And so they're talking about using millimeter waves, other things like 27 gig, 28 gig, 60 gig. Now, those do have a lot more capacity, they have other problems, they don't go through walls. So, I think instead of thinking about 5G, we need to think about, okay, what problems are we trying to solve? Like, what problems is this going to solve? I think in some sense, it's... ...while everyone wants more broadband, some of it is a solution looking for a problem. >> [John] Yeah, it's a field of dreams too dynamic, build it, they will come. That has been a network operator concept, right? And then we know the operators, and you and I have talked about this on theCube many years, the operators are having business model challenges, problems, challenges, there are opportunities, but at the same time there is a bigger picture I want to get your thoughts on. So in a vacuum, there's limitations, there's physics, but now, you're looking at a connected network, and this is the end to end concept, so under the covers of wireless, assuming wireless has its topology, architectural things you could do, smaller cells, different frequencies, how it's going through walls is preferred, longer distance, longer latency through walls, that's the ideal scenario. But I think there's a bigger picture around the different types of wireless networks, but there's cars, there's mobility, actual true mobility, 60 miles an hour in a car versus walking down the street or sitting in a stadium or at home. These are use cases. How much of it is a wireless problem versus another problem? NFV, end to end, virtualization, help us parse that through, how should we think about this? >> There's two issues, there's a wireless problem, we can talk about the different segments that make sense and don't make sense or how much they have to evolve to make sense. And then fundamentally, the networks are very... ...they're not that agile as we know. Which is why NFV really, if you remove NFV, and you just... ...NFV's about creating agility, and yes their doing for virtualization and yada yada, but it's about creating agility, creating automation, right? You can't have these... ...a lot of these networks were designed years ago even 3GPP, this is a decade old. And so yes, there's a lot of work that has to be done and creating much more agility in a network because the network isn't built for that. Just if you think about even simple things like number of subscribers that can go on and off, right? Okay, if you have a cell phone. Like today, if you look in the world there might be 80 billion subscribers, lets say. If you look at the number of cell phones and so forth. But once you start IOT, you might have 100 billion because every device will be a network. That's a different management system, right? Also, those devices may go on and off every day, right? Because you buy a new device, you plug it in the wall. Okay, phones, you don't start a new phone every day, right? People buy a phone to use it, so, the network becomes much more dynamic, the back end has to be more dynamic, that has a side effect and so there's a lot of work that has to be done on the backend to make it more dynamic. That's the backend problem and then, you know, they are working on it. >> [John] And the bright spots there are what? What are the bright spots happening today, this week at Mobile World Congress and the trends around the backend? >> Well, you know, I mean Mobile World Congress is a show, right? And these are not sexy things, so we probably won't hear a lot about them, but you hear about orchestration, automation, network virtualization, basically moving all this through the cloud paradigm, where you have a lot more flexibility. I mean if you think about what's happening NFV these days for example, you don't hear a lot about it, but what is happening a lot is onboarding work. Okay, we've talked a lot about it, from that hype, now we're into build-out, right? So you hear less about it, but stuff is actually happening. >> [John] So it's operational. >> [Saar] It's operational stuff. >> Yeah >> [Saar] They're modifying the system so that they can be ready to work when you get to that point. On the radio side, I think the important thing to understand is like you said exactly, there's multiple use cases for 5G. The most interesting and immediate one, potentially is to use wireless to compete against cable. Which is fixed wireless access. You know, there, the telecos for years have wanted to do it, there was this whole discussion about fiber, then it turned out fiber's expensive. >> [John] Yeah, you've got to trench it, you've got to provision it to your home, you've got to roll a truck. >> Took Google a few years to figure that out, but even for Google, it's expensive. >> [John] People who have done that said you're crazy, but Google's has had so many deep pockets and Facebook does the same thing with their kind of R&D projects. >> They figured it out, there are technologies, millimeter wave is a bit hard because it doesn't go through walls, but I think when we talk about capacities, it's not for your mobile phone, it's for other things, it's mostly for fixed wireless access. There's a whole discussion about cars, I personally, because we're talking about opinions here, I don't understand the problem so much because the reality is the car's going to be a mobile data center. So 90 percent of the data that's generated by the car will be kept in the car and the car will be sending analytics and metrics up so it doesn't need gigabits. It's not like every time you turn you need to get it an instruction. Maybe that's what the network guys want you to believe because then you need like zero latency. But you don't need that, it's much easier to invest in a better system in the car. So the car's not going to figure out... >> [John] The car is a computer, it's not a peripheral. >> Yeah, it's a peripheral. >> [John] It's a data center to your point. >> [Saar] It's a full data center. It's the edge that computes, so I don't think that's an issue, I think the car will need coverage and so forth. >> But that's a different thing, cars are great examples so let's take on this one. 'Cause this is a perfect mental model. A car is going to have all this capacity like a big computer >> [Saar] It's a data center. >> [John] Or a data center. >> [Saar] A mini data center. >> A lot of things, a lot of instrumentation, a lot of software, glue. >> [Saar] It's going to have 10 computers, big systems, it's like a little data center. >> But it also moves fast, so it's a true mobile data center. So it needs mobility. So mobility has trade-offs, right, with the wireless piece at least. Depends on how you're uploading. >> Again, it depends on the capacity. Mobility has certain elements when you get into Doppler Effect and so on. It's always a capacity trade off. All of you have talked on your cell phone or used data on your cell phone in your plane, we know this. When the plane's landing, that's 150 miles an hour when the plane lands, okay, and it works pretty well. >> We all cheat, don't turn on your cell phones, we're landing. >> [Saar] Yeah, exactly. >> We've all done it. >> So again, if you want to run a gigabit, it's a problem, if you want to run less it's not such a big deal if a car's going 60 miles an hour. So it depends. Now if you define the use cases, I need a gigabit for every car, there's a million cars, that's a problem. If you define the use case, as something else it's not a big problem. There is a problem though, and I think that is something that the 5G is trying to address in terms of more on the backend of density. >> Density in terms of signal, or density in terms of... >> In terms of support, so for example, the one place you can never use a cell phone is in a conference, because too many people are trying to get on at the same time. It's a statistical model. >> [John] A-station issues. >> It breaks, and so with a car also, you're going to have high density because if you have a traffic jam, all these cars are talking or receiving, so that's a bigger issue. And 5G does talk about that as well, but that's a bigger issue than pure capacity. Pure capacity, great, I'll give you this much megahertz... >> [John] I agree with that. >> You can do that on WiFi today. >> [John] I totally agree with that. So let's take a step back I want to get a little color on Mobile World Congress. Talk about what's going on right now. So it's dinner, people at parties, what goes on? People want to always ask me, John what always happens? First of all, Barcelona is a great city as you know, we've been there together for some HP events, as well as for Mobile World Congress. What's happening, you always make the comment it's a Biz Dev show which means it's business development going on. All the top executives go there, deals are being cut, but it's also a large trade show as you will for mobility. >> I think like you said, from my experience, the biggest value of Mobile World Congress is not the show itself, with all due respect to the show, it's the fact that everybody and anybody who is somebody is there, that's why we're not there. So you can meet people. And so if you want to meet a bunch of people, teleco leaders and so forth, that's what you do. This is the place. You all say, okay, we'll meet at Mobile World Congress. So like for example, when I was down there I would basically go back to back from in the morning until 10 at night, in meetings, dinners, whatever with CEOs of various telecos or CEOs of partners and so on. Everybody's there, and I never actually got to see the show because I never got out of a meeting. And most of what happens there is that. That's amazing because again, everybody's there. >> [John] There's a huge ecosystem involved. Talk about that ecosystem because this is the dynamic. And first of all, we don't have to go there because we've got theCube here so we're there virtually, digitally, and that's what we do now. This is great, in the studio, we save ourselves the three day flight to go to Barcelona. It is crazy there, but it is about the community there, because you have that opportunity to get the feedback, do deals. >> [Saar] A lot of deals around there. >> [John] A lot of deals happening, also feedback, trying to connect the dots and having the right product strategies. What are some of the things that you think is happening right now from a business standpoint in these meetings, right now? Are people still scratching their heads on over the top, is it the classic problems, what's the current state of the union? >> Well, you saw Vimpel Com change their name to some other thing, so I think what you're seeing right now, is there's still sort of multiple dynamics going on. One dynamic is there's people maneuvering around how 5G ends up closing and there was some discussions about that, there was some release done about hey we should speed it up and then Enrique said no this is silly. So there are some discussions, there is some maneuvering going on like any time when you're doing a spec, when does it freeze, when does it not freeze? Some of the telecos want this, and so forth. That's sort of in the background going on. They're still trying to figure out, you know, business model is still an issue. The people are experimenting and you're going to see a lot of that, experimenting with apps, experimenting with these monetization strategies. So there's a lot of that going on, trying to figure out, okay, how do we monetize the network in a better fashion? >> What do you think the best path is from your perspective? Just putting your industry hat on, if you had to kind of lay down some epic commentary to the teleco bosses, hey you got to cannibalize your own, get out in front, what would you advise them in terms of what to get out in front of, what to double down on? >> I think some of them are actually doing this, but I think first of all, I think they should forget about worrying about the technology. I mean, technology is very important, we need to take care of that, but really, they need to know what are they good at? What are they strong at? So their strong at a customer relationship, they have customers that they quote unquote have as partners, those customers, and they're very strong so what can you do with that partnership as opposed to all kinds of other random stuff. Now, if you look at what they're doing, they're doing different things. Some of them are like buying different media companies, so there's no easy path, but they're going to have to use their strength as opposed to try to become somebody they're not. They're not going to become Google, they're not going to become Amazon, they're not going to become one of those guys. They do need to become more cloudified just to be efficient, but that's because that's sort of the... ...just to play, you have to pay that card, but they're not going to be better than the existing, but they do have a very strong relationship with customers, they could probably sell them more things if they focus on good customer service. Customers are happy to work with them if they get a good deal and a frictionless environment. So, I would certainly encourage all of them, and I know many of them are focused on this, to improve your frictionless interaction for the customer. If the customer has a frictionless interaction and gets a good deal, they'll do business with them. >> Are you worried about the teleco's customer relationship when they have this decoupling trend kind of happening where the consumers want to take their phone or device and uncouple it from the network and just add more mobility across networks. So if there's better connectivity, I could be able to hop between Verizon, AT&T, whoever, that seems to be something that a lot of folks technically are saying from an architectural standpoint, having that personal centric view versus a network centric tie-in. Is that on the radar at all? Or is that still kind of in a way, fantasy? >> It's like people are still using AOL, right? >> [John] Who? Who? (laughing) >> They voted for Trump then, huh? >> I'm not going there right now, we can discuss that later. The point is, the primary area where there's problems in that area is roaming. And there's a lot of discussion about roaming. 55 or 60 percent of people turn off data when they go overseas because the roaming fares are so incredibly expensive which makes no sense. Why would I have a longer cost because I happen to have an AT&T contract in Europe, I'm not using more data than somebody in Europe and it's going through the backend of the internet anyways. So I think there... >> [John] It's a great way to jack the user with more fees. >> But that's not sustainable. >> Of course. >> I think there, you're going to see pressure of people and there's some companies who provide apps, and cards and sim cards, but there's now soft ways of doing it, there you're going to see pressure and I think eventually that will go the way of the messaging, where... >> [John] Like WhatsApp >> Yeah, they'll come up with something that will allow you to have data at a much cheaper rate, I don't know, does it make sense to switch carriers in the local market if you have a good price? I mean, what's the point? So again it all comes back to, do they give you a frictionless service? If they give you a frictionless service that is at reasonable cost, then you'll use it. So you've got to look at places... ...where their going to have people leave them is where they don't do that. And there are places they don't do that, roaming is one of those places. >> [John] So I've got to ask you about IOT, obviously it's the hottest trend, AI's more of the mental model that people get their arms around, they see virtual reality, augmented reality, they call that AI, it's more of a mental model, it's really not AI, but IOT is really where the action is. People see networks, where devices as you mention are coming on and off, you just don't provision those as static devices. They're very dynamic. Your take on the IOT market, what's your view on that? Because a lot of action happening there. >> I've been involved in IOT and different people have different names for what T means, I won't go there here. >> [John] T and P, things and people. Let it be watch... >> [Saar] Well T could mean things, it could mean other things too, but the point is, IOT ...I was working in a company that was doing IOT when we called machine to machine, if we had called it IOT, it would have been better. The point is IOT is, this is extremely fragmented, it's a super super fragmented market. And it has different ecosystems. The more complex part of IOT is not the front end, it's the backend of how do you manage devices how do you tie them to some app, how do you configure them, provision them? >> [John] 'Cause of the backend, infrastructures are different. Some are IT based... >> Think about it, you've got all these devices how do you upgrade them? How do you make sure they don't start a denial of service attack on their own? How do you provision them, how do you manage their life cycle? HPE has some product in that area, a global connectivity platform, but other people as well. So, this is a bigger problem. The backend is a much bigger problem than the front end. What's the problem? Hypothetically, I can stick a SIM card into anything and it's now a device. Most of these things do not have a high bandwidth. Low bandwidth coverage is pretty good in urban centers, not if you go to Utah, but other places. So, the biggest problem is backend. Now obviously there's a lot of advancements that can be done on the front end too, because of power issues. The biggest problem with IOT is depending what you want, you have a power issue. For example, we used to do this back in the day, you built these little devices, you stick them on containers, and then you can find out where the container is at any given moment. That's great, but how long does this thing last? I think IOT is a very big thing that's happening, I think most of the problem in IOT is not in the front end, it's in the back. >> [John] Yeah, I would agree with that. Also it allows you to get more data too. Another problem is storing up more data which is security, data, IT management, basic stuff. >> [Saar] Very basic stuff, and that stuff is hard to fix because again usually IOT is not a green field that are going to connect to something that exists. You're just augmenting it with IOT like if it's a power meter or something so now you have this existing ecosystem that has to interact with something that is brand new and so there are various companies who build interfaces and how to solve it, there's management issues. But I think IOT is real. >> [John] So let's talk about cloud. So cloud you also had your hand in at HP as well, you had a wireless background, the folks might not know that, going back before then. The cloud really is an opportunity, we see that with Amazon and then Microsoft's now got their stock up and so obviously cloud, it's a bigger game, it's hybrid, it's happening and then you have all these other fringe things developing around the mobility piece. How is the cloud changing the Mobile World Congress game? Because now it's a show that kind of blends. It feels like CES on one hand, it feels like Cloud World on another. It feels like IOT and teleco world, and all these things are kind of in a melting pot. >> Well I think to me, when I look at Mobile World Congress, I think of okay, it's teleco world, really because whatever the telecos happen to be doing is what the show is about, right? If you think about the telecos, we're talking about companies that have a capital like I think AT&T spends like 20 billion dollars a year or something in that range. We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of capital budget and whatever those folks are interested in is what shows up in that show. >> [John] So it's still a Teleco show dominant, you don't see that changing at all? >> No, but what teleco is, is changing, right? I mean they have broadcast, so what I'm saying is whatever the telecos are interested in is what shows up in that show. Drones, cars, telecos have their hands in all these things. And that's why it shows up in the show. Because ultimately the show is about the telecom space and the primary players. If you go down there, the booths that are as big as a country club, you know the Ericssons and so forth, it's a teleco show and people who want to be relevant like Intel as they want to be more relevant in wireless is building a bigger and bigger booth over there. But what teleco is really is about connecting things and as there's more things to connect, telecos get involved in other things. If they see a business opportunity, for example drones, lets go back to talk about that because there's a whole drone day and all this other stuff there. I mean drones need higher... ...I don't think they need so much bandwidth although it depends what kind of video you want to do. But they do need reliable connectivity. It's something useful, right? And today, you could argue connectivity it's not super reliable, it's pretty reliable, but we all have dropped calls every five minutes, right? I mean if a drone drops a call, that may not be that easy. There's use cases around these things >> [John] And back to your earlier point, I think this is the most important for the folks to listen to and hone in on is that there's a use case in every corner depending on the view of the market. Drones is one. Take virtual reality, augmented reality, that's another. IT, enterprises connecting, entertainment over the top, smart cities, these are all kind of nuanced areas. >> But when people want to understand, separate the hype from the non-hype, see if you can understand the use case. If you can't understand the use case or if the use case seems out there, then the technology is probably out there. Technology on it's own is fascinating, but if there's no use case that makes sense right here right now like again, for example, if I got a gigabit to my phone right now, would it make a difference in my life? An extra 20 hours of battery life would make a difference in my life more than a gigabit. >> That's a good point, right now battery life is more important than connectivity, but as the network transformation which is a big buzz word for this show is coming to the surface, that's an end to end architecture with software. So we think about traversing cloud, software, delivering of apps and services that's different. Now the apps have more headroom in that case, but then to your point, the backend's got to be... ...under the hood has to be smarter. Or is network transformation not yet there? >> Well I think what's happened is that the OTT, the OTTs started developing 20 years later, and surprise surprise, when you develop 20 years later, you have advantages, doesn't matter who you are, so their backend is a much further generation than the teleco's backend and so that's why when you connect to OTT services, it's consumer experience, it feels seamless and so forth, when you connect to the telecos backend, it's sort of a mismatch. And so they need to sort of fix that and that's part of the NFV transformation they're working on and again it's not because they had any limitations its because they had existing stuff, it's much easier to build from scratch. >> Final comment on Mobile World Congress this year, and outlook for the next year, your thoughts? >> We need to parse out what actually comes out of there. It's still early, I think 5G, 5Gs going to be what people are going to talk about, this is the thing. It means multiple things, but that's because the entire teleco world, if you think about it, if you look at the revenue of the suppliers and so forth who have been in a holding pattern ever since 4G sort of, in China, they finished 4G deployment and so the next big capital spending is going to be 5G, and so you're going to see the providers push anything to get that going. That's just the bottom line. >> Great. Saar Gallai, final comment, what are you working on now? Obviously we got to know you at a personal level with HPE, I've seen your roles, and the last one was really handling that teleco business which you grew up from a handful of people to hundreds of people, thousands of people. You're a land grabber, kingdom builder, empire builder. What are you up to now, what are you looking at for opportunity? I know you're doing some investing, you have some independent boards, what's your world like now here in Silicon Valley, what's your activities look like, and what's your thoughts on the valley in general and entrepreneurship and your activities? >> First of all, what I'm doing, the good news is I'm sitting here in Silicon Valley and so I'm very busy doing various interactions with bbcs, with startups, consulting, looking at different businesses, there's so much interesting things going on. Every morning you can look at new things that people bring over. Whether they're teleco related or not teleco related. Just some amazing things going on. Something from new wireless protocols to cloudification and so on, and I also sit on a few boards so I'm spending a lot of time doing that, looking at different things. >> [John] What's exciting for you right now? What's getting you jazzed up? >> There's so many different things, like I said, I think... >> [John] What's the coolest thing? >> The coolest things, some of the most cool things are.. >> [John] Confidential? >> Yeah, stealthy, I would say. I'm looking at some wireless stuff that's pretty revolutionary that I think could be new protocols that sort of change the whole dynamic of how wireless works, that's pretty interesting. And then I'm looking at some other things that are just how you apply cloud to different problems in the world. If you look at the cloud paradigm, it's existed for a fair amount of time now, but although we talk about it all day, most of the things in the world, most of the apps, most of the problem sets are not leveraging any in the cloud. They're still at best using >> [John] Recycled IT. >> Recycled IT, or sometimes even Windows 98 for all you know, right? In Africa, Africa went to wireless directly, they never did wired. So there may be a lot of industries that never go from Windows to proper data centers. They just go straight from basic Windows directly to the cloud. There's lots of opportunities that are interesting there. I'm looking at a few CEO options. But it's very exciting, there's so much going on. There's just so many things happening. >> [John] Well let's get into that tomorrow, you're going to come by tomorrow at 4:30, folks watching tomorrow at 4:30 Pacific Time, Saar will be back in the studio, we're going to dig in to the entrepreneurial landscapes, I think one of the things that you highlighted that we were talking about earlier is that sometimes you have technology looking for a problem, and the reality is that most of the game changing opportunities come out of left field that no one sees, these are the revolutionary game changers, the new technology, the hard stuff, not just some app that gets built, it's the real hardcore tech that could be applied to some of these real problems. And I think that's going to be the key. Saar Gallai here inside the studio, breaking down Mobile World Congress with theCube here in Palo Alto covering what's happening in Barcelona. We got some still phone-ins, late night in Barcelona, we're going to make those shortly, be right back with more coverage after this short break. (soft music)