>>Modernizing applications can be a complicated situation. For many folks, it's useful to have some best practices and tangible steps that can remove friction and yield some quick wins. We're now joined by couch based CTO, Ravi meam, who will cover how organizations can approach application modernization, what role the cloud plays and what you need to know about building a business case. Ravi, welcome back to the cube. Good to see you again. >>Very good to see you. Thanks for having me, Dave. >>Yes, our pleasure. Uh, according to a recent couch based digital transformation survey that you guys ran, it was about a 650 respondents, CIOs, CTOs, et cetera. The inertia of legacy technology held back according to the respondents, 82% of enterprises from modernizing their portfolios in 2021. So I wanna talk about the what and the why of modernization. Robbie, what does application modernization mean to you and why is it top of mind for organizations? >>Yeah, I think there have been multiple forces at work here for a while and they have all come to a tipping point with, uh, the pandemic and, uh, uh, it's a combination of factors and, uh, the legacy technologies were built for a different generation of applications. So it's a generational shift that we are undergoing. Uh, part of it is the, the consumption model, which is all cloud based and pay as you go kinda stuff. The other is edge is in the middle of a lot of these conversations together with, uh, the velocity variety, um, of data that you have to actually sort of consume and results that you need to produce. These were all not what the, sort of the, the infrastructure of hold on, which the applications were built on, uh, uh, stand for. So the infrastructure, the substrate requires modernization, uh, in order for the businesses to transform themselves, that's, what's going on. >>We call it digital transformation from a technology perspective, but it's businesses that are transforming, uh, the business models, uh, in front of our eyes. Uh, you know, we have seen the media go from, uh, set up boxes to streaming everywhere, um, like that every business eCommerce has changed, uh, the way we sort of, uh, do any business gaming has changed, uh, the, the banking industry, the healthcare, everything is changing, uh, in terms of the fundamental movement, if you, if you could, uh, sort of say that is to reach the consumer directly and sort of dis intermediate intermediaries. And in that process, the technologies that we had used to build the, the, you know, last previous generation of applications, no longer scale, no longer a nimble enough, uh, no longer cater to the modern, uh, the needs of the modern data and the infrastructure on which, uh, we are standing of these applications. So that's, what's driving the modernization effort. And, uh, in, in that, uh, you know, we have always started say that few years ago, that data is the new oil. Um, so that plays a very critical role in how the data silos and infrastructure that enterprises have is what's holding them back. And, uh, this whole effort is, uh, in, in, in terms of modernizing that infrastructure, uh, through the modern means of, uh, uh, the cloud computing, uh, the modern serverless architectures and microservices, and, uh, the edge and AI play play an important role in this. >>So we're gonna hear later from Amdocs, uh, about their modernization and where couch base helps and fits, but I'd love to hear your perspective as to how couch base helps organizations modernize. >>Right. I think one of the, uh, uh, fundamental things that has happened is that in the last 30, 40 odd years, the data infrastructure has sort of become, uh, a sprawl. Uh, we had built multiple systems, uh, uh, relational databases, cash is, uh, search systems, analytical systems, uh, all, uh, requiring for us to move the data, uh, from one system to the other, in order for you to get the value from those. And this is basically what we call as a data sprawl or database sprawl. And this leads to so many sort of, uh, downstream effects all the way from, uh, data not being available, uh, at the time when the engagement, uh, when the customer is engaged to data governance, security and all those issues, because the threat surface area is wide. And now you're putting all this infrastructure on the modern sort of cloud computing paradigm and, and the costs are sort of ballooning. >>And, uh, because those older infrastructures that were built, uh, when you deploy them on the cloud, uh, it, it creates its ads to the, uh, the complexity of this brawl and on top of the, the cost of this. So, uh, a system like couch base is what, um, uh, simplifies this brawl for, uh, our customers. And it is built for the modern, uh, sort of requirements of scale and performance, low latency, and the flexibility, uh, of being able to sort of not have to go through this whole sort of cycle of whenever you have to have a, a change in your application that touches your data, uh, that it, it actually creates a huge tool in those upgrades and all those life cycle having to CA carry pagers. Uh, I mean, that doesn't work anymore in these days of, I know, five, nine up times and, uh, 24 7, 365 availability of, uh, your services, uh, is so in that area is where couch base sort of helps, uh, our customers to modernize, uh, their sort of data infrastructure. >>It, uh, fuses, um, the multiple technologies that were spread across, uh, into one platform. So it gives a, a simpler programming paradigm, uh, that is one way to scale manage, administer, uh, patch, upgrade. All that mechanism is sort of not just thought through and automated, but it also sort of centralized this, uh, whole thing simplifies at the end of the day, uh, that total task of managing, uh, because that the volume of data that you have to manage now is, you know, orders of magnitude three to four orders of magnitude more than, uh, what it was just a few years ago. And, uh, so in that, uh, containing the sprawl, uh, agility of development, uh, are, are sort of, and the simplicity of deployment and management are some of the key capabilities that, uh, enterprises look to us to solve. And in that, bringing in all the way from cloud to multi-cloud to edge, uh, is how this sort of strategy evolves for enterprises. >>So square this circle for me, cuz in the panel we just had, there's a lot of agreement with what you just said, lift and shift of legacy platforms, doesn't work. Uh, it might work for the cloud vendor to get the data in the cloud, but it generally doesn't work for the customer. And you mentioned sprawl, we talked about this in the panel about, you know, data by its very nature is distributed. We talked about data mesh. There's a lot of skepticism around data mesh, but that that's cool. And you mentioned edge, so yes, I'm interested in the cloud's role here is the idea that you're actually putting all this stuff in one place. How does that fit with the edge? Maybe you could help us understand you're thinking of that and where the cloud fits. >>Yes. Um, you know, it's about, uh, centralizing a data up to a point and decentralizing it's in the magic of how you actually enable that. Um, uh, for example, just your traffic signal, your car, uh, or if you're on a cruise ship, each one is an edge, they all generate petabytes of data. And then you basically, uh, you can consume that, but if you're gonna stream all this data to a centralized place like a cloud that's, uh, you know, most of the data actually is not something that you're gonna store forever. Those are, you know, topical and that information is required at the edge. You should synthesize that information and take the noise from it and discard the signal. So that's where the edge, uh, typically the edge is not some, you know, personal device alone or uh, uh, or a IOT sensor sending data that is also, uh, sort of, uh, one, one element of the edge, but the edge is about decentralizing the cloud. >>So to say, so you can have mul your topologies of not having all your data sit in the cloud centralize someplace behind five firewalls. So when your application tries to reach that all the latency comes into place. So that's what you want to, uh, decentralize and have the data available as close to the engagement of the data with the consumer of it. So in that is the decentralization strategy where you can have multiple techologies, a three, a mesh, uh, however you choose to so that you get to get the data closest. Um, it could be a mobile device. Uh, it could be a, a smaller deployment of a server. It could be, uh, uh, a personal electronic device like watch, or it could be all the way in the IOT gateway. These are the various sort of decentralization of the data that has to happen. >>So it's about moving the data fastest. It's almost like CDN of the data is what, uh, sorry. Uh, for those it's, um, content delivery network is what CDN stands for, where we used to actually move static content in the good old days. That's what made, made our webpages faster. Now we can actually move live data that much faster by using replication technology. So when you move the data towards, towards the edge, what you're trying to do is bring that data closer, uh, to the compute where it's actually happening, as opposed to keeping the data centralized someplace back in the cloud and server and all your application logic is actually sitting on the device or on the edge. So you're constantly, uh, shoveling the data from the cloud to the edge, from edge to the cloud at the time of compute, as opposed to having it available at the time of, uh, um, the consumption of the data. >>That's where the paradigm, uh, shift is actually happening. And, uh, this basically is not about better user experience. It's also about backend networking, other costs that you can actually, uh, gain from, by not having to sort of repeatedly sort of shovel data back and forth. So that's stage strategy that, uh, enterprises are adopting. Now, this is become so to say core part of the architecture of modernization, uh, uh, in terms of where everybody can see this has to move to and, uh, our edge and mobile product, um, also plays a role in, uh, that's one of the other elements aspects of it that customers to look us, uh, look to us >>For. So it's a balance and couch base can play in both places. A lot of the data, if I heard you correctly at the edge is ephemeral, but if I want to do, you know, AI inferencing in real time, I gotta do it at the edge. I can't send it back to the cloud and, and, and do the modeling, you know, post-proces, that's not gonna work. All right, let's talk about the business case, you know, we've, we we've hit on the what and the why, but, you know, how does it get paid for companies sometimes struggle to plan for and budget appropriately for their outcomes? Yes. What do customers need to know about how do they get this past the CFO's office for, in the other business decision makers? >>I think there is an opportunity cost, uh, with the sort of lack of modernization, uh, if, uh, people are doing their classic sort of, so to say it style budgeting, uh, then it will just look like we have to modernize, uh, you know, some older infrastructure. It's not about that. It's about modernizing or making your business relevant, uh, to, uh, to the consumers, because the way consumers, uh, go about consuming your services now is very different from the way you had originally imagined and built for. And in that lies the, the, the transformation, uh, not to see this as a, it, uh, just as an it infrastructure modernization, but more from the standpoint of business transformation and, uh, the tooling that is required for this business transformation to be successful. So it requires the involvement of, um, not leaving it to just, you know, uh, uh, it oriented sort of, uh, uh, thinking of modernizing, but from the standpoint of looking at the, the, the business and what are the transformations that they need to, if they don't keep up with the Jones, they, in this digital divide, they may find themselves in the sort of either the wrong side or in the chasm. >>So I think that mindset, uh, that I was, uh, sort of in addition to sort of, uh, it pushing for this, uh, it's got to have a C-suite, uh, sponsorship understanding and, uh, sort of champion of this, then those initiatives will succeed because, uh, it's not just the technology transformation. It is accompanied by business and sort of, so to say cultural transformation inside the enterprise. >>Yeah. And it's interesting in the survey, it was very much it, you know, survey, I get that and, and the, it pros, the CIOs, et cetera, felt that, that, that, that the it organization was largely responsible for the digital strategy. And I think that was largely a function of, we just came out of the, the pandemic or Hopely coming out of the pandemic. And so they had all these tactical needs, but now you're saying step back, align with the business, make sure the C suite's involved, and that's gonna reduce the friction of, of getting this stuff paid for. >>Correct. And, you know, the, uh, this observation was also there. If you, I must have noticed that, you know, many, uh, of these sort of transf strategies, if you just leave it to like an it thing, they end up being reactive. Uh, but the proactive strategies are the one that actually, uh, succeed because they understand that this is a sort of enterprise transformation. It could be disruptive. Uh, it is what is required for the enterprise to get to the, uh, to the next level, uh, or to be, uh, in this, to be relevant in this sort of modern economy, if you would. So I think that is what, uh, what people are reacting to is the fact that this pandemic has pushed people to modernize quickly. And that may have happened as a reaction to the reality of the situation, but more and more, uh, uh, even among these strategies and more and more initiatives that people are taking, they may have sort of a longer term sort of thinking in this, uh, that requires the, uh, definitely without it's not gonna succeed and they're gonna be in the middle and they'll be, uh, in the forefront of many technology decisions that we have to make, but having a, a C-suite level sponsorship. >>In addition to that, with the impetus of what is the business transformation, this is actually going to achieve, um, those you will see will succeed a lot more because otherwise you, we see that, you know, good, good number of what 80% of these projects fail or, or, or they suffer delays or scale back or never get started, uh, because, you know, uh, the understanding of what is the business value of it is perhaps not, not clearly articulated instead, it just becomes a, a technology modernization conversation without that company benefit. >>Yeah. Got it. Okay. Uh, you guys recently announced some updates to your platform. Can you run us through the, the highlights, you know, what the customers get and, and how it relates to this conversation modernizing application strategies? >>Yes. So, uh, well, we will be, uh, releasing our couch base server 7.1. And, uh, that is what will be the sort of underneath platform for our, the couch base, uh, Capella, which is the, our DBA both, uh, have exciting innovations, um, that we would be putting out. Uh, let me just run through a few things, uh, on the, uh, uh, couch based server seven one, because there are some, uh, amazing, uh, capabilities we have introduced there. We are really excited about the opportunities. This brings couch based into play. Uh, first is we have a, uh, a brand new storage engine that we put in there, which, uh, significant significantly, uh, reduces the, uh, the cost of running couch base. Uh, with this capability, we can actually consume lot less memory and that's, that is like a 10 X improvement on this one. So from that standpoint, we are 10 X more efficient in terms of resource consumption, the expensive memory oriented resource consumption. >>This now allows couch based to sort of not just cater to those high performance, um, you know, hyperscale scenarios that we are known for, but also the more, the classic BIS oriented, uh, applications, which are not that performance sensitive, but they're more cost sensitive. So that's a huge, uh, step forward for couch base because there are a lot more, uh, opportunities where sort of, we become, uh, that much more, uh, cost efficient for enterprises to run. And this is something that, uh, many enterprises have asked for, and we know, uh, many more use cases where we would be more relevant with that innovation. And this has been a, a sort of a long journey building storage engines is, uh, you know, uh, is a very difficult Endover. And we took that on knowing that, uh, what we can achieve here would be a game changer, uh, for couch base. >>And in terms of how, uh, uh, the consolidation of multiple things that you can do in our platform just got this sort of boost of being able to do a lot more with lot less resources. In addition to that, we have done enhancements to our analytics service, uh, with, uh, the work that we have done there. Uh, it, it can sort of do a lot more, um, uh, availability, uh, of the, of, of the analytics service, uh, which, uh, will strengthens the analytics side of the product, which now allows you to run analysis O on J O uh, straight up without requiring the operational side of the, uh, the database. So you can just simply do, uh, straight off analytics stuff, because it, it, it can now, uh, give you the higher availability and disaster recovery that you would want if you're gonna depend on these, uh, systems with that, we are done over some, uh, real good work with Tableau integration, which makes it easy to visualize this, um, uh, uh, and, uh, one other important capability we introduce here is the, um, on, in the entire platform is what we call as user defined functions. >>This now allows us to write custom logic and Java script in the server couch based server. This is, this helps you write procedural logic in the middle of, uh, SQL queries, which is a humongous capability that, you know, and the classical systems process. Now, with that, we have closed the gap. If you know, how to program to sort of classical operational systems, pretty much, you have one to one equivalence of that, uh, in couch. So if you come from the good relational world, uh, it would be very easy breeze for you to understand how to program in this modern, no SQL systems, which both supports, um, uh, SQL as well as the classic asset transaction capabilities. And last, uh, we expanded the support two arm processors, and typically, uh, arm processes, at least save you quarter of, uh, your budget because of it being that much more, uh, uh, cost efficient in terms of, uh, its operational and power capabilities. >>So with that net net, uh, couch based server becomes a lot more, um, uh, cost efficient. And at the same time, it also in one, well becomes that database server, which can both handle your in memory, uh, capabilities that, that speed and hyperscale, as well as, uh, the classical use cases of being, uh, disk, uh, disoriented, uh, classical relational database use cases. Nice. So that, that, that rounds out our offering, it's been a long journey for us to get here from being the high performance, uh, low latency system to, uh, the classical database use case >>Assessment. Yeah. I mean, that's great. You got, you got memory optimization, you mentioned the, the, the, the arm base. Now you're on that curve, which is great software companies love when you get cheaper, faster hardware, uh, you making it easy to speak the language of, you know, traditional stuff. So that's awesome. Um, you and I, you mentioned, uh, Capella, you and I talked about, yes, at couch base connects Capella. You've been moving hard with your DBA strategy, how's it going? And then beyond these announcements, what's what should we look for from couch base? >>You know, uh, our fundamental, uh, mission is to make the developer experience, um, that much more easier, that much, uh, to move all the frictions that, that has existed for developers to adopt couch base. And, uh, the Capella strategy is to leverage the cloud. So you have number one, the ease of development, just bring your browsers, start to learn, develop even simple sample applications and deploy them from there. You can scale, and you can have production level deployments, that whole journey of a developer, along with the ability to sort of have your a, you know, metered billing and pay as you go, uh, uh, pricing, uh, so that it becomes easier for developers to sort of consume this and, uh, show the value of what they can build here. That is our, um, sort of journey of bringing it closer, uh, to our developers and make it simpler for them to sort of, uh, get started and build the, the mission critical applications that they have trusted to build on couch base, to become that much more simpler, faster, and easier for them. So that's the journey. So that's the kind of announcements you will see coming out in Capella. And for that this, this seven one server is, is the platform on which we, we are sort of adding those capabilities to make a Capella that much easier for developers to adopt >>Outstanding. You've been busy and it looks like you've got a lot of value. Yes. All right, we're gonna have to leave it there. Robbie, up next, we bring on the customer perspective with Amdocs. They've got a real world example of a modernization journey that they go through. They had to modernize legacy Oracle WebLogic infrastructure with a microservices architecture, and of course, couch base, keep it right there. You're watching the cube.

>>Hello everyone. And welcome to the cubes presentation of the AWS startup showcase open cloud innovations. This is season two episode one of our showcase ongoing series. We're covering very exciting startups from the AWS ecosystem. And we're going to be talking about the open source community. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. And today I'm excited to be joined by Robbie, Myra, the head of product and partner marketing at sneak. Robbie's here to talk with me about developer security for your digital transformation. Robbie, it's great to have you on the cube. >>Thanks Lisa. Nice to be here. >>So talk to me about what's going on in developer land. They're under a lot of pressure. A lot of them are building apps with open source, but what does sneak seeing from the developers lens >>From the developer's lens? There's a lot of pressure to build fast and that's probably the biggest challenge, right? We're in a world of digital transformation where everybody's trying to compete no matter what industry you're in, right on the technology and on the quality of your software or the capabilities of your software, which puts a lot of pressure on developers to build fast. That causes them to do a few things. One, it causes them to build, to develop in a way where they're doing constant iteration and so models that would have enabled a security check to come in at the end, aren't working anymore because they don't have time for those security checks. And it also causes them to do a good thing, which is to leverage other people's code when they can like open source. So they can just focus on, on their own functionality. And that's true, whether they're building new functionality or modernizing legacy applications by moving them to the cloud. >>So it's a high percentage of, of app code 80 to 90% is open source. Then that opens up. Talk to me about w where the vulnerabilities are and how you guys help customers and developers address that. >>Yeah, the vulnerabilities can be anywhere, but the key is that that point, right? If you're using open source in a typical application, 80 to 90 plus percent of the lines of code in that application are going to be open source code, their code. Somebody else wrote that you don't have a direct relationship with, and yet you own the risk that whatever they may have, whatever vulnerabilities may be in their code, you now own that risk. So what we're trying to do with sneakers, trying to do is enable developers to leverage open source, but do that securely. And then we also help them with the 10% that they rent as well, and, and do that all in one really easy environment for a developer that fits into their workflow and into their daily life. >>So security should shift left. I've had the chance to talk with a couple of, do you call them sneakers sneakers? Oh, you do a couple of sneakers recently. We've talked about security shifting lab. That's not a new concept, but I'd love to dig in more to how sneak and AWS do that. And I'm also curious if what you're doing helps. We've talked about the cybersecurity skills got for a long time. Now, just what you guys do, help address that >>It does because it's really leveraging a resource that, that is there, right? There's the number of developers worldwide is growing from, depending on who you believe for these numbers and their estimated numbers, right? But 25 million to 50 million over roughly a five-year period that's already started. So we're somewhere in the 30 now, right? Meanwhile, the security jobs, there's something like 9 million cyber security people in the world, and that's all cyber security roles. It's a much shorter, a smaller chunk that are application security folks. And there's three and a half million unfilled cybersecurity roles. So you can't get cyber security people and keep using the current model you're using. But just scale it linearly, you have to change things. And sneaks belief is the way you change things is you have the developers be part of your security solution, which means they need to have the ability to not only develop, but to develop securely. And that's our concept of developer security. We build tools and a platform that enables developers to be the first part of the security solution and enable security teams rather than individually auditing and fixing things to develop a process, govern the process, guide the development teams, but let the developers own that first step of security. And that's really how you solve that scale problem. >>When you're talking with customers, is this kind of a better together scenario, developers and security folks? Are you helping them align culturally because this is a change? >>Absolutely. I think one of the biggest misconceptions out there is that there's a tension between security and development. And I think that's because organizationally there might be right. Security is responsible for risk and developers responsible for speed of innovation and the faster you innovate, potentially there's more risk. So there might be some organizational tension, but at the human level, people understand each other, they understand the pressures that the other one's going through. They just don't have an easy way to work together. And if you can help them get that, then they, it really takes off it. The relationships form they'll build human to human programs like security champion programs and things to, to integrate the teams because they're both going after the same goal, both sides want to build awesome technology and grow in whatever market they're in. >>Right. And of course, with the need to do that at today's markets speed and scale is a great thing that you guys are doing to facilitate that collaboration. And of course the security let's kind of take a double-click now into the different integrations that sneek has with AWS services. I know there's quite a few, >>There's quite a few. The biggest one, probably the easiest one for the integrations is the native integration that we have with code pipeline. So it makes it easy for developers as they're finishing their builds and deploying to have an automatic security check that comes in, understands if there's things that need to be fixed before this really should be released, and then they can fix it and go forward. But we integrate across with our API across a lot of other services, ECR EKS code builder, so that wherever the developer is working, there's a way for us to integrate with them as they're building across their AWS development process. >>Okay. So giving them plenty of opportunity, let's dig into the platform. Talk to me about the platform, how it's really aimed at developers. You alluded to this a little bit, but I'd like to kind of take a double-click into the technology. >>Sure. That the platform, it, part of it is that idea of it we've wrapped it all as a developer tool. But the thing that makes sneak unique in this is not only we have the idea that we wanted to shift left in time, but we wanted to shift left in ownership. So the developers are primary user and we built a tool that is a developer tool that happens to do security. And we've extended that tool into a platform by enabling it to connect into the developers tools, sharing information, across different elements of what it securing. So for example, the open source that we're scanning for you and testing to find for vulnerabilities, we're also looking at the vulnerabilities in your code and where they may overlap or intersect. We can adjust priorities so that you might not need to fix something. Let's say you're using an open source, vulnerable, a package that has a vulnerability, but your code is never going to access that you don't need to fix it. >>So you can prioritize that one lower, right? Same thing with Kubernetes and containers. You may have a container vulnerability, but the way you're going to leverage the container that won't be used so we can adjust the priority to make it easy for the developer. And that's the other big thing that's different about a developer security platform than a typical security tool. A typical security tool is an audit tool it's designed to output. Here are all the things you have a problem with a developer security tool is a fixing tool. It's just defined as a, here are the problems you have developed with here's how you fix it and go back to building on that. That prioritization is a big part of that, because you can say, here's what you don't need to worry about. And then you can focus the rest of your energy on helping developers fix the problem either by giving them really good advice or automating it for them and saying, Hey, here's a button click that will generate a pull request. And your problem is this fixed. >>It must go a long way to improving developer productivity, one facilitating that speed and the agility with which they need to work, but also from a developer kind of crowd sourcing, crowd swell perspective. I imagine, talk to me about what some of the voices are, the developers that are in your community. What are some of the things that they're saying in terms of how much faster they're able to work, they're able to get those priorities established with automation so much faster? >>Well, that's the biggest thing. Is there a, the productivity gain happens because of the benefit of shift left, right? You're testing earlier. You're finding it at an earlier time when it's easier to fix, but that's because they're the ones doing it, right. If they're waiting to hand off to an auto report and then it comes back, even if somebody is, is giving them them audit faster, it's still after they've moved on. And the other way people try to solve it as well. They'll say, well, I'll take a security tool then to hand it to the developer and they can run it. But so developers are not security experts. So the tool needs to understand what they know and what they don't know, and, and working in an upload. And that's what developers generally say to us because sneak makes it easy to work, but also focuses on the fix and helps them guide them to that, to that answer. Then they're able to go much faster when we're evaluated by companies who are looking for a security solution. If the developers get involved in that evaluation, they'll choose sneak. >>So I'm curious a little bit about as, as the head of product marketing, I'm thinking customer advisory boards, things like that. What's the collaboration like between sneak and the developers to really tune and push the technology forward. I imagine it's quite collaborative, >>Quite collaborative and it's across a lot of, of spectrum. So we do have a customer advisory board and that's generally leaders, right? That's either security leaders or development leaders or operations leaders who are in that advisory board. And they're giving us input on things they need for program-wide governance or program wide adoption. We also have a developer community where we're talking directly to developers and that's where we get a lot of, Hey, here's how I could use this better as a developer. And that guides where we focus features that help developers work better, whether it's integrations with our IDs or whether it's the way we present information, help them prioritize. And then the third part is we have a lot of people using the tool because it has a free model, right? We're as a developer tool, we have a freemium model. There's a level of sneak that developers can use that they don't need to pay for. That's not a temporary trial, it's forever. If you want to use it at that level and we can observe what they're doing. So that observability gives us another insight into where folks get challenged run into, to struggles. And then we can look to address those in our roadmap as well. So, so all of that together really helps us drive the product forward. >>What is the perspective from the analyst view? You talked a little bit about the perspective from the customer. We'll get into a customer story in a bit, but I'd love to know what are the gardeners saying? >>Well, Gardner especially put us, we debuted in their magic quadrant for application security last year. And we did David as a visionary and sort of the highest part of the visionary quadrant you could get in before you crossed over into leader, which is kind of unheard of for a first time into the, into the quadrant. And the main reason for that is that they have built the way those, those magic quadrants are built is they have key capabilities and then they score companies against key capabilities and they weight those capabilities, you know, by order of importance. And Gardner has started to put some of this notion of developer security and cross cloud native application security into those key capabilities. And those tend to align really well with what sneakers. So they have a, for example, a software composition, which is sort of open source security analysis, where first, w w w where the top ranking in that, where the top ranking and container security, where the top ranking and developer enablement. So that's pulling us, they are so-so Gardner and the analyst community is seeing this same demand coming from their customers. And that's really aligning to where our vision is. >>And in terms of kind of propelling that vision forward, the voice of the customer, the voice of the analyst, aligning with what you guys are doing to kind of lead the vision going forward. I want to get into some of the intelligence before we kind of break into a customer example. Talk to me a little bit about snakes security intelligence, what the key capabilities are, and some customers that are leveraging it. Sure. >>The biggest thing is with all the developer tool wrapping that needs to be in this product than it is a developer tool. It's got a developers heart, but it has to have a security brain because it still is a security tool. There are some developer tools. We try to have little check the box capabilities of security and they'll crowdsource for vulnerabilities potentially. But if you're doing this, you need to make sure that all the vulnerabilities that could be found are in the database to be able to be found that the database is comprehensive, that it's timely. They get in very quickly that it's accurate. You don't waste time on false positives because that will turn developers off faster than anything. And that it's actionable. So when it does find something, it helps you go forward with it. And that's where sneaks really focused on. So we collect data from multiple public sources. >>We also have a fairly large proprietary research team that curates that information determines what needs to go in. Sometimes we'll adjust priorities. And we also get a lot of contributions from other sources like community contributions. Again, that big free user base of ours is giving us input academia. Open source groups are also in their social media trends. So if we see something trending on Twitter, then that'll not only get it into the database, but it'll drive prioritization. And that's a big part of what's in sneak Intel, which is the name we use for our vulnerability database. We also have a machine learning algorithm. That's constantly looking at all the code in public, in public applications and repositories. And we use that to train for our own proprietary code testing tool, but it also just gets a lot of it finds things there as well. So it brings a really good source of information that helps people make sure you're finding the vulnerabilities, you're prioritizing them correctly and fixing them. And so Amazon's one who is the, you know, one of the folks that using that tool where one of the primary sources of, of Amazon inspector for open source vulnerabilities, as well as a bunch of other security companies like rapid seven tenable and, and others. >>One of the things I was reading from, I'm always kind of looking at the differentiators and I'm sure you are as the head of product marketing and partner marketing, but it sounds like the database can, is, is a key differentiator finding vulnerabilities up to what is it? 46 days faster than competitors. >>Yeah. I mean, faster than especially public sources, which are the easier ones to, to know how you're doing against, but that's a big part of us. So when I talked about those categories, that's really what we measure ourselves against. How are we doing in terms of comprehensive? Do we have the vulnerabilities that we should have? So we have over four times the number of vulnerabilities as the next largest publicly available database, we find them faster, so timely. So that's at 46 days getting it in faster or faster than other public sources, they get into our solution and then accuracy. Again, we, it's not a stat we can test because you can't test it just from the database. You have to run the tools of our, of others in this space. And we don't have those, but making sure that you're not hitting a lot of false positives is a big part of it as well. >>Got it. Okay. And we only have a couple minutes left, but there's two more areas that I want to dig into with you just crack crack. The surface one is log four, shallow was reading. Snake says this. We were the perfect solution at the perfect time. Unpack that for me in the next minute or so. >>Yeah. And that's a bit, and it kind of wraps back to what we were talking about earlier. Everybody's using open source. If you're in the Java world, a lot of folks had logged for shell and we're using lock for shell for logging as a part of their, as a part of their applications. And so a lot of our customers, I think it was over 30%, 36% of our paying customers had the vulnerability. And you would only have the vulnerability of your Java. So it's a very large percentage of our Java using my customers had the vulnerability, but because they were using sneak, they were able, once we put it in the database, which we did the day, it was disclosed, they were able to find it and fix it very quickly. So 91% of our customers fixed that vulnerability in just two days, 98%, because this was a rolling thunder event, right. There was a vulnerability. And then there was a second vulnerability in the, in the fix. And then there was a vulnerability, even in the fix of that. So the second vulnerability that came out because everybody had been ready for it from the first time 98% picks within two days. Whereas the median number of days to generally fix a vulnerability is over two months. So really fast addressing the solution. >>So those are really impressive. And speaking of stats, I wanted to get into just really quickly a case study that really shows that lasting is one of your customer. One of your many customers, big developer community there about 3,500 developers. Give me some kind of the high level of business outcomes that at Lasagne is, is, is achieving thanks to sneaky. >>Yeah. I mean the biggest one is that almost 99% of their applications are deployed in containers. So being able to have the containers tested for vulnerabilities as they're being deployed before they're being deployed is huge for them to reduce the risk of a vulnerability. They, they had a 65% reduction in high severity container volumes a few months after using sneak across all those developers, which really reduces your, your risk profile of your, of your cloud native applications. They're obviously a big AWS user as well. So, so for them, that was the big thing. And again, it goes to that scale, right? They've got 3 3500 developers, more than 3,500 developers. If you try to go through the security team and have the security team fixing all those things, you'll just never catch up. >>Got it. Last question. Where can I get this available through the AWS market prays marketplace? You mentioned the freemium model, give folks kind of a direction on where to go. >>Yeah. So I would say if you are a, if you're someone in the security team, if you're a buyer, the AWS marketplace is a great place to go because you can probably leverage your existing spend commits with AWS. It's easy to purchase, easy billing, et cetera. If you're a developer, then there is this free version where you might go and just start using it and get comfort for it. And if you are a buyer, talk to your developers because there's a pretty good chance. Someone in your company, that's a developer is already using. Sneak will be comfortable with it. These solutions are only successful. If the developers actually use it, you can't shift left unless the developers pick it up and use it. So using the one that developers are already using is probably a good idea. >>Awesome. Robbie, this has been a great conversation, so much momentum at snake. You're the third sneaker I'd gotten to speak to you in the last month and I have, it's pretty exciting, but thanks for walking us through the technology, the capabilities, the differentiators, the voice of the customer, the voice of the analyst, we appreciate your insights and your time. And we look forward to next time we talk to you. >>Terrific. Lisa, I look forward to it as well, but there's a lot more Smith sneakers to go through before you get back to me again. I guess >>I look forward to adding to my repertoire of sneaker interviews, Ravi. Thanks so much. Thank you for Ravi Myra. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this cube interview as part of the AWS startup showcase. Stick around more great content coming up next.

>>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, where the theme of the event is, or is modernized now. Yes, let's talk about that. And with me is Ravi, who's the senior vice president of engineering and the CTO at Couchbase Ravi. Welcome. Great to see you. >>Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you. >>I asked you what the new requirements are around modern applications. I've seen some, you know, some of your comments, you gotta be flexible, distributed, multimodal, mobile edge. It, that those are all the very cool sort of buzz words, smart applications. What does that all mean? And how do you put that into a product and make it real? >>Yeah, I think what has basically happened is that, uh, so far, uh, it's been a transition of sorts. And now we are come to a point where, uh, the tipping point and the tipping point has been, uh, uh, more because of COVID and there COVID has pushed us to a world where we are living, uh, in a sort of, uh, occasionally connected manner where our digital, uh, interactions, precede our physical interactions in one sense. So it's a world where we do a lot more stuff that's less than, uh, in a digital manner, as opposed to sort of making a more specific human contact that has really been the, uh, sort of accelerant to this modernized. Now, as a team in this process, what has happened is that so far all the databases and all the data infrastructure that we have built historically, are all very centralized. >>They're all sitting behind. Uh, they used to be in mainframes from where they came to like your own data centers, where we used to run hundreds of servers to where they're going now, which is the computing marvelous change to consumption-based computing, which is all cloud oriented now. And so, uh, but they are all centralized still. Uh, but where our engagement happens with the data is, uh, at the edge, uh, at your point of convenience at your point of consumption, not where the data is actually sitting. So this has led to, uh, you know, all those buzzwords, as you said, which is like, oh, well we need a distributed data infrastructure, where is the edge? Uh, but it just basically comes down to the fact that the data needs to be where you are engaging with it. And that means if you are doing it on your mobile phone, or if you are sitting, uh, doing something in your body or traveling, or whether you are in a subway, whether you're in a plane or a ship, wherever the data needs to come to you, uh, and be available as opposed to every time you going to the data, which is centrally sitting in some place. >>And that is the fundamental shift in terms of how the modern architecture needs to think, uh, when they, when it comes to digital transformation and, uh, transitioning their old applications to, uh, the, the modern infrastructure, because that's, what's going to define your customer experiences and your personalized experiences. Uh, otherwise people are basically waiting for that circle of death that we all know, uh, and blaming the networks and other pieces. The problem is actually, the data is not where you are engaging with. It has got to be fetched, you know, seven seas away. Um, and that is the problem that we are basically solving in this modern modernization of that data, data infrastructure. >>I love this conversation and I love the fact that there's a technical person that can kind of educate us on, on this, because date data by its very nature is distributed. It's always been distributed, but w w but distributed database has always been incredibly challenging, whether it was a global SIS Plex or an eventual consistency of getting recovery for a distributed architecture has been extremely difficult. You know, I hate that this is a terrible term, lots of ways to skin a cat, but, but you've been the visionary behind this notion of optionality, how to solve technical problems in different ways. So how do you solve that, that problem of, of, of, uh, of, uh, of a super rock solid database that can handle, you know, distributed data? Yes. >>So there are two issues that you're a little too over there with Forrest is the optionality piece of it, which is that same data that you have that requires different types of processing on it. It's almost like fractional distillation. It is, uh, like your crude flowing through the system. You start all over from petrol and you can end up with Vaseline and rayon on the other end, but the raw material, that's our data in one sense. So far, we never treated the data that way. That's part of the problem. It has always been very purpose built and cast first problem. And so you just basically have to recast it every time we want to look at the data. The first thing that we have done is make data that fluid. So when you're actually, uh, when you have the data, you can first look at it to perform. >>Let's say a simple operation that we call as a key value store operation. Given my ID, give him a password kind of scenarios, which is like, you know, there are customers of ours who have billions of user IDs in their management. So things get slower. How do you make it fast and easily available? Log-in should not take more than five minutes. Again, this is a, there's a class of problem that we solve that same data. Now, eventually, without you ever having to, uh, sort of do a casting it to a different database, you can now do a solid, uh, acquire. These are classic sequel queries, which is our next magic. We are a no SQL database, but we have a full functional sequel. The sequel has been the language that has talked to data for 40 odd years successfully. Every other database has come and try to implement their own QL query language, but they've all failed only sequel as which stood the test of time of 40 odd years. >>Why? Because there's a solid mathematics behind it. It's called a relational calculus. And what that helps you is, is, uh, basically, uh, look at the data and any common tutorial, uh, any, uh, any which way you look at the data. All it will come, uh, the data in a format that you can consume. That's the guarantee sort of gives you in one sense. And because of that, you can now do some really complex in the database signs, what we call us, predicate logic on top of that. And that gives you the ability to do the classic relational type queries, select star from where Canada stuff, because it's at an English level, it becomes easy to, so the same data, you didn't have to go move it to another database, do your, uh, sort of transformation of the data and all this stuff. Same day that you do this. >>Now, that's where the optionality comes in. Now you can do another piece of logic on top of this, which we call search. This is built on this concept of inverted index and TF IDF, the classic Google in a very simple terms, but Google tokenized search, you can do that in the same data without you ever having to move the data to a different format. And then on top of it, they can do what is known as a eventing or your own custom logic, which we all which we do on a, on programming language called Java script. And finally analytics and analytics is the ability to query the operational data in a different way. I'll talk budding. What was my sales of this widget year over year on December 1st week, that's a very complex question to ask, and it takes a lot of different types of processing. >>So these are different types of that's optionality with different types of processing on the same data without you having to go to five different systems without you having to recast the data in five different ways and find different application logic. So you put them in one place. Now is your second question. Now this has got to be distributed and made available in multiple cloud in your data center, all the way to the edge, which is the operational side of the, uh, the database management system. And that's where the distributed, uh, platform that we have built enables us to get it to where you need the data to be, you know, in a classic way, we call it CDN in the data as in like content delivery networks. So far do static, uh, uh, sort of moving of static content to the edges. Now we can actually dynamically move the data. Now imagine the richness of applications you can develop. >>The first part of the, the answer to my question, are you saying you could do this without skiing with a no schema on, right? And then you can apply those techniques. >>Uh, fantastic question. Yes. That's the brilliance of this database is that so far classically databases have always demanded that you first define a schema before you can write a single byte of data. Couchbase is one of the rare databases. I, for one don't know any other one, but there could be, let's give the benefit of doubt. It's a database which writes data first and then late binds to schema as we call it. It's a schema on read things. So because there is no schema, it is just a on document that is sitting inside. And Jason is the lingua franca of the web, as you very well know by now. So it just Jason that we manage, you can do key lookups of the Jason. You can do full credit capability, like a classic relational database. We even have cost-based optimizers and the other sophisticated pieces of technology behind it. >>You can do searching on it, using the, um, the full textual analysis pipeline. You can do ad hoc wedding on the analytic side, and you can write your own custom logic on it using our eventing capabilities. So that's, that's what it allows because we keep the data in the native form of Jason. It's not a data structure or a data schema imposed by a database. It is how the data is produced. And on top of it, we bring different types of logic, five different types of it's like the philosophy is bringing logic to data as opposed to moving data to logic. This is what we have been doing, uh, in the last 40 years because we developed various, uh, database systems and data processing systems of various points. In time in our history, we had key value stores. We had relational systems, we had search systems, we had analytical systems. >>We had queuing systems, all the systems, if you want to use any one of them, our answer has always been, just move the data to that system. Versus we are saying that do not move the data as we get bigger and bigger and data just moving this data is going to be a humongous problem. If you're going to be moving petabytes of data for this is not one to fly instead, bring the logic to the data. So you can now apply different types of logic to the data. I think that's what, in one sense, the optionality piece of this, >>As you know, there's plenty of schema-less data stores. They're just, they're called data swamps. I mean, that's what they, that's what they became, right? I mean, so this is some, some interesting magic that you're applying here. >>Yes. I mean, the one problem with the data swamps as you call them is that that was a little too open-ended because the data format itself could change. And then you do your, then everything became like a game data casting because it required you to have it in seven schema in one sense at the end of the day, for certain types of processing. So in that where a lot of gaps it's probably flooded, but it not really, uh, how do you say, um, keep to the promise that it actually meant to be? So that's why it was a swamp I need, because it was fundamentally not managing the data. The data was sitting in some file system, and then you are doing something, this is a classic database where the data is managed and you create indexes to manage it, and you create different types of indexes to manage it. You distribute the index, you distribute the data you have, um, like we were discussing, you have acid semantics on top of, and when you, when you put all these things together, uh, it's, it's, it's a tough proposition, but they have solved some really tough problems, which are good computer science stuff, computer science problems that we have to solve to bring this, to bring this, to bear, to bring this to the market. >>So you predicted the trend around multimodal and converged, uh, databases. Um, you kind of led Couchbase through that. I want to, I always ask this question because it's clearly a trend in the industry and it, it definitely makes sense from a simplification standpoint. And, and, and so that I don't have to keep switching databases or the flip side of that though, Ravi. And I wonder if you could give me your opinion on this is kind of the right tool for the right job. So I often say isn't that the Swiss army knife approach, we have a little teeny scissors and a knife. That's not that sharp. How do you respond to that? Uh, >>A great one. Um, my answer is always, I use another analogy to tackle that, but is that, have you ever accused a smartphone of being a Swiss army knife? No. No. Nobody does that because it's actually 40 functions in one is what a smartphone becomes. You never call your iPhone or your Android phone, a Swiss army knife, because here's the reason is that you can use that same device in the full capacity. That's what optionality is. It's not, I'm not, it's not like your good old one where there's a keyboard hiding half the screen, and you can do everything only through the keyboard without touching and stuff like that. That's not the whole devices available to you to do one type of processing when you want it. When you're done with that, it can do another completely different types of processing. Like as in a moment, it could be a Tom, Tom telling you all the directions, the next one, it's your PDA. >>Third one, it's a fantastic phone. Uh, four, it's a beautiful camera, which can do your f-stop management and give you a nice SLR quality picture. Right? So next moment is a video camera. People are shooting movies with this thing in Hollywood, these days for God's sake. So it gives you the full power of what you want to do when you want it. And now, if you just taught that iPhone is a great device or any smartphone is a great device, because you can do five things in one or 50 things in one, and at a certain level, they missed the point because what that device really enabled is not just these five things in one place. It becomes easy to consume and easy to operate. It actually started the app is the economy. That's the brilliance of bringing so many things in one place, because in the morning, you know, I get the alert saying that today you got to leave home at eight 15 for your nine o'clock meeting. >>And the next day it might actually say 8 45 is good enough because it knows where the phone is sitting. The geo position of it. It knows from my calendar where the meeting is actually happening. It can do a traffic calculation because it's got my map and all of the routes. And then it's gone there's notification system, which eventually pops up on my phone to say, Hey, you got to leave at this time. Now five different systems have to come together and they can because the data is in one place without that, you couldn't even do this simple function, uh, in a, in a sort of predictable manner in a, in a, in a manner that's useful to you. So I believe a database which gives you this optionality of doing multiple data processing on the same set of data allows you will allow you to build a class of products, which you are so far been able to struggling to build, because half the time you're running sideline to sideline, just, you know, um, integrating data from one system to the other. >>So I love the analogy with the smartphone. I w I want to, I want to continue it and double click on it. So I use this camera. I used to, you know, my kid had a game. I would bring the, the, the big camera, the 35 millimeter. So I don't use that anymore no way, but my wife does, she still uses the DSLR. So is, is there a similar analogy here? That those, and by the way, the camera, the camera shop in my town went out of business, you know? And so, so, but, but is there, is that a fair, where, in other words, those specialized databases, they say there still is a place for them, but they're getting >>Absolutely, absolutely great analogy and a great extension to the question. That's, that's the contrarian side of it in one sense is that, Hey, if everything can just be done in one, do you have a need for the other things? I mean, you gave a camera example where it is sort of, it's a, it's a slippery slope. Let me give you another one, which is actually less straight to the point better. I've been just because my, I, I listened to half of the music on the iPhone. Doesn't stop me from having my full digital receiver. And, you know, my Harman Kardon speakers at home because they haven't, they produce a kind of sounded immersive experience. This teeny little speaker has never in its lifetime intended to produce, right? It's the convenience. Yes. It's the convenience of convergence that I can put my earphones on and listen to all the great music. >>Yes, it's 90% there or 80% there. It depends on your audio file mess of your, uh, I mean, you don't experience the super specialized ones do not go away. You know, there are, there are places where, uh, the specialized use cases will demand a separate system to exist, but even there that has got to be very closed. Um, how do you say close, binding or late binding? I should be able to stream that song from my phone to that receiver so I can get it from those speakers. You can say that, oh, there's a digital divide between these two things done, and I can only play CDs on that one. That's not how it's going to work going forward. It's going to be, this is the connected world, right? As in, if I'm listening to the song in my car and then step off the car and walk into my living room, that's same songs should continue and play in my living room speakers. Then it's a world because it knows my preference and what I'm doing that all happened only because of this data flowing between all these systems. >>I love, I love that example too. When I was a kid, we used to go to Twitter, et cetera. And we'd to play around with, we take off the big four foot speakers. Those stores are out of business too. Absolutely. Um, now we just plug into Sonos. So that is the debate between relational and non-relational databases over Ravi. >>I believe so. Uh, because I think, uh, what had happened was the relational systems. Uh, I've been where the norm, they rule the roost, if you will, for the last 40 odd years, and then gain this no sequel movement, which was almost as though a rebellion from the relational world, we all inhibited, uh, uh, because we, it was very restrictive. It, it had the schema definition and the schema evolution as we call it, all those things, they were like, they required a committee, they required your DBA and your data architect. And you have to call them just to add one column and stuff like that. And the world had moved on. This was the world of blogs and tweets and, uh, you know, um, mashups and, um, uh, uh, a different generation of digital behavior, digital, native people now, um, who are operating in these and the, the applications, the, the consumer facing applications. >>We are living in this world. And yet the enterprise ones were still living in the, um, in the other, the other side of the divide. So all came this solution to say that we don't need SQL. Actually, the problem was never sequel. No sequel was, you know, best approximation, good marketing name, but from a technologist perspective, the problem was never the query language, no SQL was not the problem, the schema limitations, and the inability for these, the system to scale, the relational systems were built like, uh, airplanes, which is that if, uh, San Francisco Boston, there is a flight route, it's so popular that if you want to add 50 more seats to it, the only way you can do that is to go back to Boeing and ask them to get you a set in from 7 3 7 2 7 7 7, or whatever it is. And they'll stick you with a billion dollar bill on the alarm to somehow pay that by, you know, either flying more people or raising the rates or whatever you have to do. >>These are called vertically scaling systems. So relational systems are vertically scaling. They are expensive. Versus what we have done in this modern world, uh, is make the system how it is only scaling, which is more like the same thing. If it's a train that is going from San Francisco to Boston, you need 50 more people be my guests. I'll add one more coach to it, one more car to it. And the better part of the way we have done this year is that, and we have super specialized on that. This route actually requires three, three dining cars and only 10 sort of sleeper cars or whatever. Then just pick those and attach the next route. You can choose to have ID only one dining car. That's good enough. So the way you scale the plane is also can be customized based on the route along the route, more, more dining capabilities, shorter route, not an abandoned capability. >>You can attach the kind of coaches we call this multi-dimensional scaling. Not only do we scale horizontally, we can scale to different types of workloads by adding different types of coaches to it quite. So that's the beauty of this architecture. Now, why is that important? Is that where we land eventually is the ability to do operational and analytical in the same place. This is another thing which doesn't happen in the past, because you would say that I cannot run this analytical Barre because then my operational workload will suffer. Then my friend, then we'll slow down millions of customers that impacted that problem. We will solve the same data in which you can do analytical buddy, an operational query because they're separated by these cars, right? As in like we, we fence the, the, the resources, so that one doesn't impede the other. So you can, at the same time, have a microsecond 10 million ops per second, happening of a key value or equity. >>And then yet you can run this analytical body, which will take a couple of minutes to run one, not impeding the other. So that's in one sense, sort of the, part of the, um, uh, problems that we have solved here is that relational versus, uh, uh, the no SQL portion of it. These are the kinds of problems we have to solve. We solve those. And then we yet put back the same quality language on top. Y it's like Tesla in one sense, right underneath the surface is where all the stuff that had to be changed had to change, which is like the gasoline, uh, the internal combustion engine, uh, I think gas, uh, you says, these are the issues we really wanted to solve. Um, so solve that, change the engine out, you don't need to change the steering wheel or the gas pedal or the, you know, the battle shifters or whatever else you need, or that are for your shifters. >>Those need to remain in the same place. Otherwise people won't buy it. Otherwise it does not even look like a car to people. So, uh, even when you feed people the most advanced technology, it's got to be accessible to them in the manner that people can consume. Only in software, we forget this first design principle, and we go and say that, well, I got a car here, you got the blue harder to go fast and lean back for, for it to, you know, uh, to apply a break that's, that's how we seem to define, uh, design software. Instead, we should be designing them in a manner that it is easiest for our audience, which is developers to consume. And they've been using SQL for 40 years or 30 years. And so we give them the steering wheel on the, uh, and the gas bottle and the, um, and the gear shifter is by putting cul back on underneath the surface, we have completely solved, uh, the relational, uh, uh, limitations of schema, as well as scalability. >>So in, in, in that way, and by bringing back the classic acid capabilities, which is what relational systems, uh, we accounted on and being able to do that with the sequel programming language, we call it like multi-state SQL transaction. So to say, which is what a classic way all the enterprise software was built by putting that back. Now, I can say that that debate between relational and non-relational is over because this has truly extended the database to solve the problems that the relational systems had to grow up the salt in the modern times, but rather than get, um, sort of pedantic about whether it's, we have no SQL or sequel or new sequel, or, uh, you know, any of that sort of, uh, jargon, oriented debate, uh, this, these are the debates of computer science that they are actually, uh, and they were the solve and they have solved them with, uh, the latest release of $7, which we released a few months ago. >>Right, right. Last July, Ravi, we got to leave it there. I, I love the examples and the analogies. I can't wait to be face to face with you. I want to hang with you at the cocktail party because I've learned so much and really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming to the cube. >>Fantastic. Thanks for the time. And the Aboriginal Dan was, I mean, very insightful questions really appreciate it. Thank you. >>Okay. This is Dave Volante. We're covering Couchbase connect online, keep it right there for more great content on the cube.

>> Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Couchbase connect online, where the theme of the event is, is modernize now. Yes, let's talk about that. And with me is Ravi mayor him, who's the senior vice president of engineering and the CTO at Couchbase Ravi. Welcome. Great to see you. >> Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you. >> I want to ask you what the new requirements are around modern applications. I've seen some of your comments, you got to be flexible, distributed, multimodal, mobile, edge. Those are all the very cool sort of buzz words, smart applications. What does that all mean? And how do you put that into a product and make it real? >> Yeah, I think what has basically happened is that so far it's been a transition of sorts. And now we are come to a point where that tipping point and that tipping point has been more because of COVID and there are COVID has pushed us to a world where we are living in a in a sort of occasionally connected manner where our digital interactions precede, our physical interactions in one sense. So it's a world where we do a lot more stuff that's less than in a digital manner, as opposed to sort of making a more specific human contact. That does really been the sort of accelerant to this modernize Now, as a team. In this process, what has happened is that so far all the databases and all the data infrastructure that we have built historically, are all very centralized. They're all sitting behind. They used to be in mainframes from where they came to like your own data centers, where we used to run hundreds of servers to where they're going now, which is the computing marvelous change to consumption-based computing, which is all cloud oriented now. And so, but they are all centralized still, but where our engagement happens with the data is at the edge at your point of convenience, at your point of consumption, not where the data is actually sitting. So this has led to, you know, all those buzzwords, as you said, which is like, oh, well we need a distributed data infrastructure, where is the edge? But it just basically comes down to the fact that the data needs to be there, if you are engaging with it. And that means if you are doing it on your mobile phone, or if you're sitting, but doing something in your while you're traveling, or whether you're in a subway, whether you're in a plane or a ship, wherever the data needs to come to you and be available, as opposed to every time you going to the data, which is centrally sitting in some place. And that is the fundamental shift in terms of how the modern architecture needs to think when they, when it comes to digital transformation and, transitioning their old applications to the, the modern infrastructure, because that's, what's going to define your customer experiences and your personalized experiences. Otherwise, people are basically waiting for that circle of death that we all know, and blaming the networks and other pieces. The problem was actually, the data is not where you are engaging with it. It's got to be fetched, you know, seven sea's away. And that is the problem that we are basically solving in this modern modernization of that data, data infrastructure. >> I love this conversation and I love the fact that there's a technical person that can kind of educate us on, on this because date data by its very nature is distributed. It's always been distributed, but with the distributed database has always been incredibly challenging, whether it was a global SIS Plex or an eventual consistency of getting recovery for a distributed architecture has been extremely difficult. You know, I hate that this is a terrible term, lots of ways to skin a cat, but, but you've been the visionary behind this notion of optionality, how to solve technical problems in different ways. So how do you solve that, that problem of, of, of, of, of a super rock solid database that can handle, you know, distributed data? >> Yes. So there are two issues that you alluded little too over there. The first is the optionality piece of it, which is that same data that you have that requires different types of processing on it. It's almost like fractional distillation. It is like your crude flowing through the system. You start all over from petrol and you can end up with Vaseline and rayon on the other end, but the raw material, that's our data. In one sense. So far, we never treated the data that way. That's part of the problem. It has always been very purpose built and cast first problem. And so you just basically have to recast it every time we want to look at the data. The first thing that we have done is make data that fluid. So when you're actually, when you have the data, you can first look at it to perform. Let's say a simple operation that we call as a key value store operation. Given my ID, give him a password kind of scenarios, which is like, you know, there are customers of ours who have billions of user IDs in their management. So things get slower. How do you make it fast and easily available? Log-in should not take more than five milliseconds, this is, this is a class of problem that we solve that same data. Now, eventually, without you ever having to sort of do a casting it to a different database, you can now do solid queries. Our classic SQL queries, which is our next magic. We are a no SQL database, but we have a full functional SQL. The SQL has been the language that has talked to data for 40 odd years successfully. Every other database has come and tried to implement their own QL query language, but they've all failed only SQL has stood the test of time of 40 odd years. Why? Because there's a solid mathematics behind it. It's called a relational calculus. And what that helps you is, is basically a look at the data and any common editorial, any, any which way you look at the data, all it will come, the data in a format that you can consume. That's the guarantee sort of gives you in one sense. And because of that, you can now do some really complex in the database signs, what we call us, predicate logic on top of that. And that gives you the ability to do the classic relational type queries select star from where, kind of stuff, because it's at an English level becomes easy to so the same day that you didn't have to go move it to another database, do your sort of transformation of the data and all the stuff, same day that you do this. Now that's where the optionality comes in. Now you can do another piece of logic on top of this, which we call search. This is built on this concept of inverted index and TF IDF, the classic Google in a very simple terms, what Google tokenized search, you can do that in the same data without you ever having to move the data to a different format. And then on top of it, they can do what is known as a eventing or your own custom logic, which we all which we do on a, on programming language called Java script. And finally analytics and analytics is the, your ability to query the operational data in a different way. And talk querying, what was my sales of this widget year over year on December 1st week, that's a very complex question to ask, and it takes a lot of different types of processing. So these are different types of that's optionality with different types of processing on the same data without you having to go to five different systems without you having to recast the data in five different ways and apply different application logic. So you put them in one place. Now is your second question. Now this has got to be distributed and made available in multiple cloud in your data center, all the way to the edge, which is the operational side of the, the database management system. And that's where the distributed platform that we have built enables us to get it to where you need the data to be, you know, in the classic way we call it CDN'ing the data as in like content delivery networks. So far do static, sort of moving of static content to the edges. Now we can actually dynamically move the data. Now imagine the richness of applications you can develop. >> And on the first part of, of the, the, the answer to my question, are you saying you could do this without scheme with a no schema on, right? And then you can apply those techniques. >> Fantastic question. Yes. That's the brilliance of this database is that so far classically databases have always demanded that you first define a schema before you can write a single byte of data. Couchbase is one of the rare databases. I, for one don't know any other one, but there could be, let's give the benefit of doubt. It's a database which writes data first and then late binds to schema as we call it. It's a schema on read thing. So, because there is no schema, it is just a Json document that is sitting inside. And Json is the lingua franca of the web, as you very well know by now. So it just Json that we manage, you can do key value look ups of the Json. You can do full credit capability, like a classic relational database. We even have cost-based optimizers and other sophisticated pieces of technology behind it. You can do searching on it, using the, the full textual analysis pipeline. You can do ad hoc webbing on the analytics side, and you can write your own custom logic on it using or inventing capabilities. So that's, that's what it allows because we keep the data in the native form of Json. It's not a data structure or a data schema imposed by a database. It is how the data is produced. And on top of it, bring, we bring different types of logic, five different types of it's like the philosophy is bringing logic to data as opposed to moving data to logic. This is what we have been doing in the last 40 years, because we developed various database systems and data processing systems at various points in time in our history, we had key value stores. We had relational systems, we had search systems, we had analytical systems. We had queuing systems, all these systems, if you want to use any one of them are answered. It always been, just move the data to that system. Versus we are saying that do not move the data as we get bigger and bigger and data just moving this data is going to be a humongous problem. If you're going to be moving petabytes of data for this, it's not going to fly instead, bring the logic to the data, right? So you can now apply different types of logic to the data. I think that's what, in one sense, the optionality piece of this. >> But as you know, there's plenty of schema-less data stores. They're just, they're called data swamps. I mean, that's what they, that's what they became, right? I mean, so this is some, some interesting magic that you're applying here. >> Yes. I mean, the one problem with the data swamps as you call them is that that was a little too open-ended because the data format itself could change. And then you do your, then everything became like a game data recasting because it required you to have it in seven schema in one sense at, at the end of the day, for certain types of processing. So in that where a lot of gaps it's probably related, but it not really, how do you say keep to the promise that it actually meant to be? So that's why it was a swamp I mean, because it was fundamentally not managing the data. The data was sitting in some file system, and then you are doing something, this is a classic database where the data is managed and you create indexes to manage it. And you create different types of indexes to manage it. You distribute the index, you distribute the data you have, like we were discussing, you have ACID semantics on top of, and when you, when you put all these things together, it's, it's, it's a tough proposition, but we have solved some really tough problems, which are good computer science stuff, computer science problems that we have to solve to bring this, to bring this, to bear, to bring this to the market. >> So you predicted the trend around multimodal and converged databases. You kind of led Couchbase through that. I, I want, I always ask this question because it's clearly a trend in the industry and it, and it definitely makes sense from a simplification standpoint. And, and, and so that I don't have to keep switching databases or the flip side of that though, Ravi. And I wonder if you could give me your opinion on this is kind of the right tool for the right job. So I often say isn't that the Swiss army knife approach, where you have have a little teeny scissors and a knife, that's not that sharp. How, how do you respond to that? >> A great one. My answer is always, I use another analogy to tackle that, and is that, have you ever accused a smartphone of being a Swiss army knife? - No. No. >> Nobody does. That because it actually 40 functions in one is what a smartphone becomes. You never call your iPhone or your Android phone, a Swiss army knife, because here's the reason is that you can use that same device in the full capacity. That's what optionality is. It's not, I'm not, it's not like your good old one where there's a keyboard hiding half the screen, and you can do everything only through the keyboard without touching and stuff like that. That's not the whole devices available to you to do one type of processing when you want it. When you're done with that, it can do another completely different types of processing. Right? As in a moment, it could be a TomTom, telling you all the directions, the next one, it's your PDA. Third one. It's a fantastic phone. Four. It's a beautiful camera which can do your f-stop management and give you a nice SLR quality picture. Right? So next moment, it's the video camera. People are shooting movies with this thing in Hollywood, these days for God's sake. So it gives you the full power of what you want to do when you want it. And now, if you just thought that iPhone is a great device or any smartphone is a great device, because you can do five things in one or 50 things in one, and at a certain level, he missed the point because what that device really enabled is not just these five things in one place. It becomes easy to consume and easy to operate. It actually started the app based economy. That's the brilliance of bringing so many things in one place, because in the morning, you know, I get an alert saying that today you got to leave home at >> 8: 15 for your nine o'clock meeting. And the next day it might actually say 8 45 is good enough because it knows where the phone is sitting. The geo position of it. It knows from my calendar where the meeting is actually happening. It can do a traffic calculation because it's got my map and all of the routes. And then it's got this notification system, which eventually pops up on my phone to say, Hey, you got to leave at this time. Now five different systems have to come together and they can because the data is in one place. Without that, you couldn't even do this simple function in a, in a sort of predictable manner in a, in a, in a manner that's useful to you. So I believe a database which gives you this optionality of doing multiple data processing on the same set of data allows you will allow you to build a class of products, which you are so far been able to struggling to build. Because half the time you're running sideline to sideline, just, you know, integrating data from one system to the other. >> So I love the analogy with the smartphone. I want to, I want to continue it and double click on it. So I use this camera. I used to, you know, my kid had a game. I would bring the, the, the big camera, the 35 millimeter. So I don't use that anymore no way, but my wife does, she still uses the DSLR. So is, is there a similar analogy here? That those, and by the way, the camera, the camera shop in my town went out of business, you know? So, so, but, but is there, is that a fair and where, in other words, those specialized databases, they say there still is a place for them, but they're getting. >> Absolutely, absolutely great analogy and a great extension to the question. That's like, that's the contrarian side of it in one sense is that, Hey, if everything can just be done in one, do you have a need for the other things? I mean, you gave a camera example where it is sort of, it's a, it's a slippery slope. Let me give you another one, which is actually less straight to the point better. I've been just because my, I, I listened to half of my music on the iPhone. Doesn't stop me from having my full digital receiver. And, you know, my Harman Kardon speakers at home because they, I mean, they produce a kind of sounded immersive experience. This teeny little speaker has never in its lifetime intended to produce, right? It's the convenience. Yes. It's the convenience of convergence that I can put my earphones on and listen to all the great music. Yes, it's 90% there or 80% there. It depends on your audio file-ness of your, I mean, your experience super specialized ones do not go away. You know, there are, there are places where the specialized use cases will demand a separate system to exist. But even there that has got to be very closed. How do you say close, binding or late binding? I should be able to stream that song from my phone to that receiver so I can get it from those speakers. You can say that all, there's a digital divide between these two things done, and I can only play CDs on that one. That's not how it's going to work going forward. It's going to be, this is the connected world, right? As in, if I'm listening to the song in my car and then step off the car, walk into my living room, that same songs should continue and play in my living room speakers. Then it's a connected world because it knows my preference and what I'm doing that all happened only because of this data flowing between all these systems. >> I love, I love that example too. When I was a kid, we used to go to Tweeter, et cetera. And we used to play around with three, take home, big four foot speakers. Those stores are out of business too. Absolutely. And now we just plug into Sonos. So that is the debate between relational and non-relational databases over Ravi? >> I believe so, because I think what had happened was relational systems. I've mean where the norm, they rule the roost, if you will, for the last 40 odd years and then gain this no SQL movement, which was almost as though a rebellion from the relational world, we all inhabited because we, it was very restrictive. It, it had the schema definition and the schema evolution as we call it, all those things, they were like, they required a committee. They required your DBA and your data architect. And you had to call them just to add one column and stuff like that. And the world had moved on. This was a world of blogs and tweets and, you know, mashups and a different generation of digital behavior, There are digital, native people now who are operating in these and the, the applications, the, the consumer facing applications. We are living in this world. And yet the enterprise ones were still living in the, in the other, the other side of the divide. So out came this solution to say that we don't need SQL. Actually the problem was never SQL. No SQL was, you know, best approximation, good marketing name, but from a technologist perspective, the problem was never the query language, no SQL was not the problem, the schema limitations and the inability for these, the system to scale, the relational systems were built like airplanes, which is that if a San Francisco, Boston, there is a flight route, it's so popular that if you want to add 50 more seats to it, the only way you can do that is to go back to Boeing and ask them to get you a set from 7 3 7 2 7 7 7, or whatever it is. And they'll stick you with a billion dollar bill on the allowance that you'll somehow pay that by, you know, either flying more people or raising the rates or whatever you have to do. These are all vertically scaling systems. So relational systems are vertically scaling. They are expensive. Versus what we have done in this modern world is make the system horizontally scaling, which is more like the same thing. If it's a train that is going from San Francisco to Boston, you need 50 more people be my guest. I'll add one more coach to it, one more car to it. And the better part of the way we have done this here is that, and we are super specialized on that. This route actually requires three, three dining cars and only 10 sort of sleeper cars or whatever. Then just pick those and attach the next route. You can choose to have, I need only one dining car. That's good enough. So the way you scale the plane is also can be customized based on the route along the route, more, more dining capabilities, shorter route, not an abandoned capability. You can attach the kind of coaches we call this multidimensional scaling. Not only do we scale horizontally, we can scale to different types of workloads by adding different types of coaches to it, right? So that's the beauty of this architecture. Now, why is that architecture important? Is that where we land eventually is the ability to do operational and analytical in the same place. This is another thing which doesn't happen in the past, because, you would say that I cannot run this analytical query because then my operational workload will suffer. Then my front end, then we'll slow down millions of customers that impacted that problem. They'll solve the same data once again, do analytical query, an operational query because they're separated by these cars, right? As in like we, we, we fence the, the, the resources so that one doesn't impede the other. So you can, at the same time, have a microsecond 10 million ops per second, happening of a key value or a query. And then yet you can run this analytical query, which will take a couple of minutes to them. One, not impeding the other. So that's in one sense, sort of the part of the problems that we have solved it here is that relational versus the no SQL portion of it. These are the kinds of problems we have to solve. We solve those. And then we yet put back the same query language on top. Why? It's like Tesla in one sense, right underneath the surface is where all the stuff that had to be changed had to change, which is like the gasoline, the internal combustion engine the gas, you says, these were the issues we really wanted to solve. So solve that, change the engine out, you don't need to change the steering wheel or the gas pedal or the, you know, the battle shifters or whatever else you need, over there your gear shifters. Those need to remain in the same place. Otherwise people won't buy it. Otherwise it does not even look like a car to people. So even when you feed people, the most advanced technology, it's got to be accessible to them in the manner that people can consume. Only in software, we forget this first design principle, and we go and say that, well, I got a car here, you got the blow harder to go fast. And they lean back for, for it to, you know, to apply a break that's, that's how we seem to define design software. Instead, we shouldn't be designing them in a manner that it is easiest for our audience, which is developers to consume. And they've been using SQL for 40 years or 30 years. And so we give them the steering wheel on the, and the gas pedal and the, and the gear shifters by putting SQL back on underneath the surface, we have completely solved the relational limitations of schema, as well as scalability. So in, in, in that way, and by bringing back the classic ACID capabilities, which is what relational systems we accounted on, and being able to do that with the SQL programming language, we call it like multi-statement SQL transaction. So to say, which is what a classic way all the enterprise software was built by putting that back. Now, I can say that that debate between relational and non-relational is over because this has truly extended the database to solve the problems that the relational systems had to grow up to solve in the modern times, rather than get sort of pedantic about whether it's we have no SQL or SQL or new SQL, or, you know, any of that sort of jargon oriented debate. This is, these are the debates of computer science that they are actually, and they were the solve, and they have solved them with the latest release of 7.0, which we released a few months ago. >> Right, right. Last July, Ravi, we got got to leave it there. I love the examples and the analogies. I can't wait to be face-to-face with you. I want to hang with you at the cocktail party because I've learned so much and really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming to the cube. >> Fantastic. Thanks for the time. And the opportunity I was, I mean, very insightful questions really appreciate it. - Thank you. >> Okay. This is Dave Volante. We're covering Couchbase connect online, keep it right there for more great content on the cube.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey here with the Cube coming to you from Palo Alto studios today for our ongoing coverage of aws reinvent 2020. It's a digital event like everything else in 2020. We're excited for our next segment, so let's jump into it. We're joined in our next segment by Andrew Rafa. He is the principal and zero trust offering lead at the Light and Touche LLP. Andrew, great to see you. >>Thanks for having me. >>Absolutely. And joining him is Robbie Deval. He is the AWS cyber risk lead for Deloitte and Touche LLP. Robbie, Good to see you as well. >>Hey, Jeff, good to see you as well. >>Absolutely. So let's jump into it. You guys are all about zero trust and I know a little bit about zero trust I've been going to are safe for a number of years and I think one of the people that you like to quote analysts chase Cunningham from Forrester, who's been doing a lot of work around zero trust. But for folks that aren't really familiar with it. Andrew, why don't you give us kind of the 101? About zero trust. What is it? What's it all about? And why is it important? >>Sure thing. So is your trust is, um, it's a conceptual framework that helps organizations deal with kind of the ubiquitous nature of modern enterprise environments. Um, and then its course. Your trust commits to a risk based approach to enforcing the concept of least privileged across five key pillars those being users, workloads, data networks and devices. And the reason we're seeing is your trust really come to the forefront is because modern enterprise environments have shifted dramatically right. There is no longer a defined, clearly defined perimeter where everything on the outside is inherently considered, considered untrusted, and everything on the inside could be considered inherently trusted. There's a couple what I call macro level drivers that are, you know, changing the need for organizations to think about securing their enterprises in a more modern way. Um, the first macro level driver is really the evolving business models. So as organizations are pushing to the cloud, um, maybe expanding into into what they were considered high risk geography is dealing with M and A transactions and and further relying on 3rd and 4th parties to maintain some of their critical business operations. Um, the data and the assets by which the organization, um transact are no longer within the walls of the data center. Right? So, again, the perimeter is very much dissolved. The second, you know, macro level driver is really the shifting and evolving workforce. Um, especially given the pandemic and the need for organizations to support almost an entirely remote workforce nowadays, um, organizations, they're trying to think about how they revamp their traditional VPN technologies in order to provide connectivity to their employees into other third parties that need to get access to, uh, the enterprise. So how do we do so in a secure, scalable and reliable way and then the last kind of macro level driver is really the complexity of the I t landscape. So, you know, in legacy environment organizations on Lee had to support managed devices, and today you're seeing the proliferation of unmanaged devices, whether it be you know, B y o d devices, um, Internet of things, devices or other smart connected devices. So organizations are now, you know, have the need to provide connectivity to some of these other types of devices. But how do you do so in a way that, you know limits the risk of the expanding threat surface that you might be exposing your organization to by supporting from these connected devices? So those are some three kind of macro level drivers that are really, you know, constituting the need to think about security in a different >>way. Right? Well, I love I downloaded. You guys have, ah zero trust point of view document that that I downloaded. And I like the way that you you put real specificity around those five pillars again users, workloads, data networks and devices. And as you said, you have to take this kind of approach that it's kind of on a need to know basis. The less, you know, at kind of the minimum they need to know. But then, to do that across all of those five pillars, how hard is that to put in place? I mean, there's a There's a lot of pieces of this puzzle. Um, and I'm sure you know, we talk all the time about baking security and throughout the entire stack. How hard is it to go into a large enterprise and get them started or get them down the road on this zero trust journey? >>Yeah. So you mentioned the five pillars. And one thing that we do in our framework because we put data at the center of our framework and we do that on purpose because at the end of the day, you know, data is the center of all things. It's important for an organization to understand. You know what data it has, what the criticality of that data is, how that data should be classified and the governance around who and what should access it from a no users workloads, uh, networks and devices perspective. Um, I think one misconception is that if an organization wants to go down the path of zero trust, there's a misconception that they have to rip out and replace everything that they have today. Um, it's likely that most organizations are already doing something that fundamentally aligned to the concept of these privilege as it relates to zero trust. So it's important to kind of step back, you know, set a vision and strategy as faras What it is you're trying to protect, why you're trying to protect it. And what capability do you have in place today and take more of an incremental and iterative approach towards adoption, starting with some of your kind of lower risk use cases or lower risk parts of your environment and then implementing lessons learned along the way along the journey? Um, before enforcing, you know more of those robust controls around your critical assets or your crown jewels, if you >>will. Right? So, Robbie, I want to follow up with you, you know? And you just talked about a lot of the kind of macro trends that are driving this and clearly covert and work from anywhere is a big one. But one of the ones that you didn't mention that's coming right around the pike is five g and I o t. Right, so five g and and I o. T. We're going to see, you know, the scale and the volume and the mass of machine generated data, which is really what five g is all about, grow again exponentially. We've seen enough curves up into the right on the data growth, but we've barely scratched the surface and what's coming on? Five G and I o t. How does that work into your plans? And how should people be thinking about security around this kind of new paradigm? >>Yeah, I think that's a great question, Jeff. And as you said, you know, I UT continues to accelerate, especially with the recent investments and five G that you know pushing, pushing more and more industries and companies to adopt a coyote. Deloitte has been and, you know, helping our customers leverage a combination of these technologies cloud, Iot, TML and AI to solve their problems in the industry. For instance, uh, we've been helping restaurants automate their operations. Uh, we've helped automate some of the food safety audit processes they have, especially given the code situation that's been helping them a lot. We are currently working with companies to connect smart, wearable devices that that send the patient vital information back to the cloud. And once it's in the cloud, it goes through further processing upstream through applications and data. Let's etcetera. The way we've been implementing these solutions is largely leveraging a lot of the native services that AWS provides, like device manager that helps you onboard hundreds of devices and group them into different categories. Uh, we leveraged device Defender. That's a monitoring service for making sure that the devices are adhering to a particular security baseline. We also have implemented AWS green grass on the edge, where the device actually resides. Eso that it acts as a central gateway and a secure gateway so that all the devices are able to connect to this gateway and then ultimately connect to the cloud. One common problem we run into is ah, lot of the legacy i o t devices. They tend to communicate using insecure protocols and in clear text eso we actually had to leverage AWS lambda Function on the edge to convert these legacy protocols. Think of very secure and Q t t protocol that ultimately, you know, sense data encrypted to the cloud eso the key thing to recognize. And then the transformational shift here is, um, Cloud has the ability today to impact security off the device and the edge from the cloud using cloud native services, and that continues to grow. And that's one of the key reasons we're seeing accelerated growth and adoption of Iot devices on did you brought up a point about five G and and that's really interesting. And a recent set of investments that eight of us, for example, has been making. And they launched their AWS Waveland zones that allows you to deploy compute and storage infrastructure at the five G edge. So millions of devices they can connect securely to the computer infrastructure without ever having to leave the five g network Our go over the Internet insecurely talking to the cloud infrastructure. Uh, that allows us to actually enable our customers to process large volumes of data in a short, near real time. And also it increases the security of the architectures. Andi, I think truly, uh, this this five g combination with I o t and cloudy, I m l the are the technologies of the future that are collectively pushing us towards a a future where we're gonna Seymour smart cities that come into play driverless connected cars, etcetera. >>That's great. Now I wanna impact that a little bit more because we are here in aws re invent and I was just looking up. We had Glenn Goran 2015, introducing a W S s I O T Cloud. And it was a funny little demo. They had a little greenhouse, and you could turn on the water and open up the windows. But it's but it's a huge suite of services that you guys have at your disposal. Leveraging aws. I wonder, I guess, Andrew, if you could speak a little bit more suite of tools that you can now bring to bear when you're helping your customers go to the zero trust journey. >>Yeah, sure thing. So, um, obviously there's a significant partnership in place, and, uh, we work together, uh, pretty tremendously in the market, one of the service are one of solution offering that we've built out which we dub Delight Fortress, um is a is a concept that plays very nicely into our zero trust framework. More along the kind of horizontal components of our framework, which is really the fabric that ties it all together. Um s o the two horizontal than our framework around telemetry and analytics. A swell the automation orchestration. If I peel back the automation orchestration capability just a little bit, um, we we built this avoid fortress capability in order for organizations to kind of streamline um, some of the vulnerability management aspect of the enterprise. And so we're able through integration through AWS, Lambda and other functions, um, quickly identify cloud configuration issues and drift eso that, um, organizations cannot only, uh, quickly identify some of those issues that open up risk to the enterprise, but also in real time. Um, take some action to close down those vulnerabilities and ultimately re mediate them. Right? So it's way for, um, to have, um or kind of proactive approach to security rather than a reactive approach. Everyone knows that cloud configuration issues are likely the number one kind of threat factor for Attackers. And so we're able to not only help organizations identify those, but then closed them down in real time. >>Yeah, it's interesting because we hear that all the time. If there's a breach and if if they w s involved often it's a it's a configuration. You know, somebody left the door open basically, and and it really drives something you were talking about. Ravi is the increasing important of automation, um, and and using big data. And you talked about this kind of horizontal tele metrics and analytics because without automation, these systems are just getting too big and and crazy for people Thio manage by themselves. But more importantly, it's kind of a signal to noise issue when you just have so much traffic, right? You really need help surfacing. That signals you said so that your pro actively going after the things that matter and not being just drowned in the things that don't matter. Ravi, you're shaking your head up and down. I think you probably agree with this point. >>Yeah, yeah, Jeff and definitely agree with you. And what you're saying is truly automation is a way off dealing with problems at scale. When when you have hundreds of accounts and that spans across, you know, multiple cloud service providers, it truly becomes a challenge to establish a particular security baseline and continue to adhere to it. And you wanna have some automation capabilities in place to be able to react, you know, and respond to it in real time versus it goes down to a ticketing system and some person is having to do you know, some triaging and then somebody else is bringing in this, you know, solution that they implement. And eventually, by the time you're systems could be compromised. So ah, good way of doing this and is leveraging automation and orchestration is just a capability that enhances your operational efficiency by streamlining summed Emmanuel in repetitive tasks, there's numerous examples off what automation and orchestration could do, but from a security context. Some of the key examples are automated security operations, automated identity provisioning, automated incident response, etcetera. One particular use case that Deloitte identified and built a solution around is the identification and also the automated remediation of Cloud security. Miss Consideration. This is a common occurrence and use case we see across all our customers. So the way in the context of a double as the way we did this is we built a event driven architectures that's leveraging eight of us contribute config service that monitors the baselines of these different services. Azzan. When it detects address from the baseline, it fires often alert. That's picked up by the Cloudwatch event service that's ultimately feeding it upstream into our workflow that leverages event bridge service. From there, the workflow goes into our policy engine, which is a database that has a collection off hundreds of rules that we put together uh, compliance activities. It also matched maps back to, ah, large set of controls frameworks so that this is applicable to any industry and customer, and then, based on the violation that has occurred, are based on the mis configuration and the service. The appropriate lambda function is deployed and that Lambda is actually, uh, performing the corrective actions or the remediation actions while, you know, it might seem like a lot. But all this is happening in near real time because it is leveraging native services. And some of the key benefits that our customers see is truly the ease of implementation because it's all native services on either worse and then it can scale and, uh, cover any additional eight of those accounts as the organization continues to scale on. One key benefit is we also provide a dashboard that provides visibility into one of the top violations that are occurring in your ecosystem. How many times a particular lambda function was set off to go correct that situation. Ultimately, that that kind of view is informing. Thea Outfront processes off developing secure infrastructure as code and then also, you know, correcting the security guard rails that that might have drifted over time. Eso That's how we've been helping our customers and this particular solution that we developed. It's called the Lloyd Fortress, and it provides coverage across all the major cloud service providers. >>Yeah, that's a great summary. And I'm sure you have huge demand for that because he's mis configuration things. We hear about him all the time and I want to give you the last word for we sign off. You know, it's easy to sit on the side of the desk and say, Yeah, we got a big security and everything and you got to be thinking about security from from the time you're in, in development all the way through, obviously deployment and production and all the minutes I wonder if you could share. You know, you're on that side of the glass and you're out there doing this every day. Just a couple of you know, kind of high level thoughts about how people need to make sure they're thinking about security not only in 2020 but but really looking down the like another road. >>Yeah, yeah, sure thing. So, you know, first and foremost, it's important to align. Uh, any transformation initiative, including your trust to business objectives. Right? Don't Don't let this come off as another I t. Security project, right? Make sure that, um, you're aligning to business priorities, whether it be, you know, pushing to the cloud, uh, for scalability and efficiency, whether it's digital transformation initiative, whether it be a new consumer identity, Uh uh, an authorization, um, capability of china built. Make sure that you're aligning to those business objectives and baking in and aligning to those guiding principles of zero trust from the start. Right, Because that will ultimately help drive consensus across the various stakeholder groups within the organization. Uh, and build trust, if you will, in the zero trust journey. Um, one other thing I would say is focus on the fundamentals. Very often, organizations struggle with some. You know what we call general cyber hygiene capabilities. That being, you know, I t asset management and data classifications, data governance. Um, to really fully appreciate the benefits of zero trust. It's important to kind of get some of those table six, right? Right. So you have to understand, you know what assets you have, what the criticality of those assets are? What business processes air driven by those assets. Um, what your data criticality is how it should be classified intact throughout the ecosystem so that you could really enforce, you know, tag based policy, uh, decisions within, within the control stack. Right. And then finally, in order to really push the needle on automation orchestration, make sure that you're using technology that integrate with each other, right? So taken a p I driven approach so that you have the ability to integrate some of these heterogeneous, um, security controls and drive some level of automation and orchestration in order to enhance your your efficiency along the journey. Right. So those were just some kind of lessons learned about some of the things that we would, uh, you know, tell our clients to keep in mind as they go down the adoption journey. >>That's a great That's a great summary s So we're gonna have to leave it there. But Andrew Robbie, thank you very much for sharing your insight and and again, you know, supporting this This move to zero trust because that's really the way it's got to be as we continue to go forward. So thanks again and enjoy the rest of your reinvent. >>Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for your time. >>All right. He's Andrew. He's Robbie. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube from AWS reinvent 2020. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to Vegas baby. This is the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 this is day three. John Walls is my cohost Jay. Welcome back to Vegas baby Vegas. It's Vegas baby. And you know I'm looking out back. So this is not like a day three crowd. It's really not. Now you can kind of yell out in the hallway and your echo bounce around, but there are a lot of people still here, a lot of business still being done. There really are. There's no shortage of that. And because we're live on the queue, what happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas. So we're happy to welcome a couple of new guests to the queue that are going to share all these great things about security and teach us to, to my left is Robbie's sort of Austin VP of solutions and platform marketing from forest points and from AWS. >>Roe had gooped up global segment leader insecurity. Gentlemen, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us. So we can't go to any event without talking about security. It's, it's one of those topics that I think every generation understand when there are big breaches like Capitol one that happened recently or Facebook, even the older generations who are still in the workforce today, they understand it to some degree. The security is so complex. And, and Ravi, one of the things I know that's most challenging about security, especially cyber, is humans are 90 plus percent of the problem. It's human errors, right? Talk to us about Forcepoint. I love the tagline, human centric cybersecurity. How can you help us humans fix all of the errors that we're causing? Or can you, Doug, good question. It's, it's the cat and mouse game, right? Uh, so Forcepoint is a purpose belt, a user and data protection company, right? >>And we're focused on the digital identities and the behavior of their cyber behavior to be able to understand that and then protect, um, data and the users as well. So that's what we refer to as human centric cybersecurity. And how long have you guys been working on this? Oh, we've been working on this for decades. It's the problem with traditional security was all infrastructure centric, guns, guards and Gates and magic will happen. And then turns out those bad actors figure out the guns, guards and Gates and always looking to compromise users and their access. And so independent of whether the attack is external or internal, it's that compromise that that's the focus. And so when you focus on the compromise, that's where we focused on in terms of how to help companies with security. So, so what, what does that connection between behavior in between operations? >>I mean, so what are you looking for in terms of what that user's doing correctly or incorrectly? I mean, what kind of markers do you have? What kind of signs do you get? And in what corrective measures can you put into the process that automatically will correct or at least address that? Yeah, so let me take an example. Right? Um, so if I'm a developer, I'm building using Amazon's awesome services, putting a lot of content in there. I use get hub as a storage. I put a lot of information in there and I'm doing that quickly to get my project done. Right. As I do that and I launched that application, then security comes along after after fact and says, well, let's put security design a day and then how do we protect the data? That model is breaking. Why is it breaking? Because companies are saying users are no longer coming just from the enterprise. >>They're working from home, they're working from the Starbucks and they're accessing the same data and bad actors follow that too. What do they do? They follow the users and go, I can then pretend to be Ravi and get access to the data. And that's how you see a lot of the breaches. So what we're looking at is the behavior of Ravi as an employee. I engage with my mobile device, with my laptop, I get access. I work from eight to five, I'm in Austin most of the times. So the markers are user related, device related, and also context. It's like, why am I logging in from Austin? And at the same time also seeing a login from China that doesn't look right. So that's, that's an example of a behavior. So what's the red flag that goes up there? And you mentioned China, that's an extreme example, but I'm sure there are some more subtle or some not quite as obvious. >>I mean, what exactly is that, that prophylactic measure that that comes in that's automated that says, wait a minute, I don't think this is Ravi, although it's in Denver or it's on this server, whatever month. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So again, the context is built out of three things, users, devices and the environment. Right? By triangulating on those three things, you can actually capture very subtle needle in the haystack of being able to say, look, this is Robbie's behavior. So we're going to let him access get hub. We're going to let him access all the resources on Amazon, but as soon as we see deviations from that, we're going to throw a yellow flag. We're going to ask them to login with a multifactor authentication or some, some other additional form of engaging. Then if we still see more deviations, then we say the word, I'm actually blocked that and I can safely block it because I know that this is not Ravi anymore. Right. And that's how we've seen a lot of organizations use behavior at the heart of their security posture. >>So Rohit, before we went live, you, you told John and me that you've been in security for a thousand years. So one of the biggest challenges though besides people is, is being reactive. And when companies have to be reactive to security events, whether they're ostensible or, or more subtle like John talked about, that can potentially be catastrophic. Can you just talk to us a little bit about some of the historical changes say in the last few years that you've seen where companies, there's no time to go from react to be reactive. How are companies leveraging technologies like Forcepoint and AWS to go from reactive to predictive to eventually prescriptive? >>Yes, that's a good question. And firstly, it's a dozen years, not a thousand years, but, uh, it feels like that sometimes. Uh, so what we have found is that the cloud actually has helped companies become more secure because security is about visibility and control. And what the cloud does is provide better visibility than was available before because you have things like cloud trail that are showing any event that is happening in the system that you could actually use to figure out what happened before and then you can learn from that quickly and take action to fix it. So that's where the control part comes in. Over time you will get better at understanding the signals, as Robbie was saying, and you can be more predictive or you can take action much faster. And even if you don't completely solve the problem right away, you are able to react much faster. So the damages is minimal. Right? And so we've seen that change happened over the years. Companies are using automation that the cloud brings and coupled with the visibility to really gain control back. >>You know, there, there's um, I don't know if you'd call it a natural tension, but there's certainly some friction. Speed. Security, right? I want to go, go, go, go, go. I want to stop, stop, stop. So I've stopped. Right? So I mean our, our, our, our, they to take years, you know, cat and mouse are the, are they natural enemies or friction or can they be complimentary now in such a way because of what you are developing are the tools that we do have at our disposal now, can you address both? It's very, very interesting. The, when you started with an infrastructure centric security, when you put guns, guards and Gates, they were that tension, right? But when you start to change the conversation about, look, we're not about stopping progress, we want the developers to use the data, but we want them to do use it securely, right? And as you start to think about that approach, then security can actually be an enabler for digital transformation. Just as Amazon is talking today or throughout the last three days about how you've lots of services and enabling digital transformation. That's really our focus too, is how to enable that securely. How to enable users to be able to touch the data wherever it is, but secure that along the value chain >>is security. Is this question for both of you and Rohit? Let's start with you. Where is security and terms of the conversation as Andy Jassy talked about on Tuesday when he was talking about business, true business transformation gotta start at the top, you to have that senior exec level initiative sponsorship that's pushed down into the organization is security at that. I imagine it is at that senior level. Talk to us about how you've seen that evolve and how it is really a cornerstone to digital transformation. >>Yeah. I think security used to be an afterthought. The developers were not concerned about it. They don't teach security or at least they didn't teach security in college and computer science courses. It was not even that important. It's gone from that to an hour board level and perhaps even a regulatory level of discussion where it is being addressed by much higher authorities then even the board of the company. Right. So yes, it has definitely gone from a backroom operation that people didn't care about to something that is really very important and as Ravi said, you can move fast and stay secure. You almost have no choice because you have to move fast, right? Figuring out how to be secure in that environment and you don't do not want to end up in the news ultimately. And so that is why it is a conversation that is elevated. Now to the board level. >>Do you see that, speaking of ending up in the news, and there's a couple of folks whose boobs are here that have been in the news recently for significant breaches, human caused, is that when that becomes a sensational story, is that a facilitator of more conversations of customers coming? And maybe, maybe Ravi, I'll start with you. Customers coming to Forcepoint going, gosh, you know what, here's another example of a breach that affected millions and millions. We need to get our hands around this in a better way so that we can really use that data for competitive advantage to those, those news breaking stories, good for business. >>So we get invited to a lot of board level conversations. Our leaders get invited to speak to boards and the two common questions they get asked is, am I going to be the next target? Right? And then most importantly, the second one is how am I doing against my peer group? Right? And so when it comes to that conversation, as you as rotors, there's describing it, organizations are saying, look, I've gotta be able to run my business and I need to run it securely in order to do that. If I can answer those two questions, I'm not going to worry about the threats and attacks and what happened to in the news. I'm more focused on how can I get this new project deployed, security connected? How do I do this new mobile application? Get that and to protect the data, right? So that's the conversation that boards want to know. >>So they do want the reference point, for sure. Can we, you know, at least it's talk about the headlines and we all see that almost to the point that we're kind of numb to it, right? We're almost desensitized. Another hack, another breach or whatever. So we've, in a way, our mindset is, or Facebook that it happens. Can we get to the different, flip that paradigm to where we almost take for granted that it won't happen, that that are our guide. Our guards are that good. I mean, what does it take to get to that point to where we don't accept preachers and we look at them as an anomaly rather than for kind of the cost of doing business. I mean that's, that's been the central focus for us with the human centric cybersecurity. We're saying if you take, uh, any breach and their story reads, breach happened and then you get all the other what they did after effect, right? >>And then they'd tell you a story that happened that the bad actor or the compromise was happened over some period of time, whether it was months to detecting bad things. Ex-post is hard. But what we are focused on when you look at human centric security as we're saying, the time to steal data is in minutes, but the indicators that it takes to steal that data has been building up. So we're saying if we can use behavior to show that buildup, then we could block it before a breach happens. So it's kind of like a slow drip in your ceiling, right? You see it there, go and go ahead. Don't wait for the ceiling to collapse. Right? You've got a ring that's growing there, so do something about it. Exactly how to identify it. >>Last question as we look at, one of the other things that Andy showed on Tuesday is that 97% of it spend is still on prem. We know that there's a lot of hybrid cloud out there in those types of environments which are becoming more and more the norm. How do you help customers manage all of that data regardless of what's on from what's in the cloud and how things are moving in a secure way. >>And that's where for us the partnership is critical and we see the partnership with Amazon to be very strategic in the fact that Amazon's building up awesome set of foundational controls. That's great. We'll let the developers use that, right? And now as enterprises connect with their data, data is on prem and in the cloud and everywhere in between. How do you then implement security that's closest to where the data sits? So we were leverage a lot of the security controls that Amazon provides. And in addition to that, we then offer more of a unified policy control to provide that control wherever the data sits, whether it's on the end point in line or in the cloud. >>Exciting stuff. Well guys, thank you for joining John and me on the program, giving us more information on, on cybersecurity and some of the opportunities that businesses have to actually use that as an advantage. We appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you for the time for John Walls. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Q for Vegas. Re-invent 19 thanks for watching.

>>From London, England. It's the cube covering Kupa inspire 19 PVR after you by Cooper. >>Hi. Welcome to the cube Lisa Martin on the ground in London at Kupa inspire 19 please do welcome back to the cube Ravi talker, the SVP, a business acceleration that Cooper won't be welcome back. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me. Likewise. So lots of, lots of buzz around us. Everyone's eating lunch, but there's a lot of folks here in London, a lot of exciting news coming out in this morning. Lot of customers and fused in Rob's keynote. I lost count of how many great customer examples were showed. Talk to us a little bit about Kupa pay and some of the innovations that you guys are delivering now. >>Yeah, absolutely. So pay pays a great new area for Coupa. We call it the fourth pillar and Rob's analogy of the pipe procurement, invoicing, payment and expenses. And so actually we started this journey a really last year at this event where we announced virtual card for purchase orders and a strategic relationship with Barclaycard. And over that past year we've done some amazing things with relationships with JP Morgan, Citibank, and we just announced a great relationship with American express to provide American express virtual cards on the Coupa pay platform. So we've been working hard at it. We've seen some really good success early success with customers. Uh, we announced some other great innovations in our Vegas conference just a few months ago where we announced invoice payments is generally available along with partnerships with Stripe and PayPal. So it's been really busy. >>It has been the B2B payments space. It's a big market, 1.2, I think trillion global and global volume. But it's also challenging because on the consumer side, on the BDC side, it's so easy for us to do transactions right on our phone, tablet watches, and we had this expectation that we can pay for anything. We can find anything, we can pay bills so easily. But on the B2B side there's a lot more complexity. The BDB hasn't, payments hasn't been able to innovate nearly as quickly as on the consumer side. But I'd love to get your thoughts on what is Cooper able to leverage with Coupa pay that's maybe going to start meeting some of the demands of those business folks who in their consumer lives have this expectation of a swipe or a click to do a transaction. >>Yeah, it's a completely different ball game consumer versus B2B, whole avenues around risk profiles of your suppliers. You know if you pay a supplier that's doing illegal business are doing place and where the government doesn't allow it puts your brand and your reputation at risk. Very serious risks. And so we incorporate a lot of what we do with the community. So you heard Rob talk about that in his keynote. A lot of things around community intelligence. So for us being able to rely on thousands of customers of data, millions of transactions, being able to see things across all of our customers and really create alerts and transactional efficiencies for our customers in B2B payments. That's a big change for our customers and we're just starting to get to see some of those transactional elements. I think the second thing that we've seen with B2B payments, and it's interesting money, 2020 is one of the largest, uh, payment conferences, uh, in the world. And it happened I think last week or the week before in Vegas. And this year has been a lot of talk about B2B payments, whereas last year is mostly B to C. and so we feel we've been making an impact in the entire payments area because to us it's bringing together all of the different payment rails, whether it's virtual card or bank transfers or cross border, but being able to do it across dozens and hundreds of countries and it global fashion. That's a big game changer for large enterprises. >>So one of the things that was a theme this morning during the keynote was trust. I had the opportunity to speak with Rachel Botsman trust expert who did a keynote this morning. And as we look at some of the numbers that Rob shared, you mentioned a few of over a thousand plus customers using Coupa. I think he's shared over 5 million suppliers on the platform. You talked about this community, this massive community that you are co creating with. Talk to me about Coupa pay and its ability to help deliver that trust so that Coupa can be that trusted advisor that it wants to be with. It's not just its customers but as partners too. >>No, absolutely. And Rachel's presentation this morning was fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, uh, my background actually I Kupa for a decade I ran customer success. So I engaged with C level executives at all of our customers. And as part of that process, a trust was a big factor in that when we said something we would deliver that. And over the course of the years that coop has been around about 1314 years we've held very true. That stands in our number one core value of ensuring customer success. And when you look at all of the customers that are willing to put their six, what we call success metrics, how much they've spent saved the spend that they have under management when they are publicly talking about it. That's trust that we've created with them in this partnership because they believe in what our ability to deliver says we decided to go into payments or we're trust and payments is a very big deal as mentioned earlier. Right? You don't get necessarily fired for screwing up our purchase order or an invoice, but if you send money to the wrong supplier to the wrong country, you know, there's a lot of risk associated with that. So we take that very, very seriously and how we've been developing and creating solutions around Kupa pay. And so it's just the overall Avenue that we work with our, we treat them as partners, not as a vendor supplier relationship. And because of that we have this mutual trust that we're both in this together in this large community. >>Yeah. And Rachel Botsman talk about sort of that balance between, uh, trust and risk. Yeah. Which was very interesting concept. Um, talk to me about, I'm just thinking like even from a fraud on a supplier perspective, one of the things I know that Cuba is able to do is alert a customer, Hey, there's a supplier that has a history of whatever it happens to me that's, that's my inflict risk on that customer. Tell me a little bit about that. From a trust risk kind of balanced perspective, what you guys are delivering there. >>It's a great area that we're just really starting to get into as well. And so being able to leverage the community of buyers and suppliers and having everything in a single code system code platform allows us to do a number of these things. And so for providing our customers, not the necessarily the, the exact thing that they should do, but providing them the relevant information in order for them to make the right decisions. Yeah. There's an old adage that I go by which is trust but verify. And so it's the same similar concept here. It's our goal to provide these prescriptions to our customers on what is the supplier doing or how can you improve your processes. And with these prescriptions, as Rob mentioned this morning, it's, it's up to our customers to choose what they want to do with those prescriptions. Sometimes they may take it, sometimes they may not >>and he gave a number, I want to say 22,000 prescriptions and he gave a time period in the past 12 months. That's what I thought as well. So a lot of insight literally coming out of that community. Love to chat though about the community in terms of the B2B payment space, not only we talked about how it's being influenced by consumers, but the changing role of procurement and finance. Yeah, a lot of just disruption there. We talked about that a few months ago and didn't get a lot of opportunity for financial leaders to become much more strategic and a lot of the examples that Rob shared showed how impactful company wide the impact that procurement folks, finance folks can make. Talk to me about how the Coupa is leveraging that community to help them get more visibility on how that procurement role is changing and how Coupa can help it be much more strategic. You know what I, that's a great question. And >>what I respond with that is, what's the name of our conference? It's inspire, right? We want to inspire this community to really go to that next level and really look deep inside themselves. It, Rob talks about all these different adjectives of Brown, all the different, what we call spend setters. It's a great initiative that we've created because we're giving our community of voice and that's always the biggest thing in how you affect change. How do you give people a voice? How do you give someone a story that they can grasp onto such that they can make it their own, such as they can take those facts and that relevance and apply it to their own day to day jobs. And that's a big thing that we're looking to do. But it requires going back to trust. It requires a little bit of trust in what we're doing. And by providing those stories, it gives these, our customers, our champions, uh, the ability to fall back on those, have that foundation for how to make change, how to disrupt their organizations. You know, Rob gave that great example of Telenor. You know, their seep, their chief procurement officer created a blueprint and a plan to provide mobile service. I think it was an India is a great example of what an individual can do and when you're that individual and you have visibility and tall your supply base into all of the spend going across your company, it's very, very powerful. >>I saw a survey that Cuba did recently have, I think 253 financial decision makers in the U K and some of the stats were quite shocking that 96% I believe said we do not have complete visibility over our entire spend. Right. Wow. Right. That's because one, some of the things that Rob shared this morning was the massive, massive savings that companies can achieve, but not having that visibility. You've got blinders on. There's a lot of risk there. There's a lot of expenses that probably should be going into procurement, but that was really 96% saying we don't have complete visibility. What's Cooper's answer to that? >>You know, it's, it's an interesting statistic. Right? And I, I gave a presentation I think seven, eight years ago, and I started off that presentation with saying, you know, if you are an HR and you didn't have track of all your employees, you'd be fired. If you're a head of sales and you didn't have an understanding of all of your open opportunities for business, you'd be fired. So why is that different for spend? Right? Why not have visibility and have access to all of the different spin that's happening across your company? And your Rob said it best in his keynote. We talked about what's actually happening in the world today. It's not necessarily around customer relationship management software, CRM, right? It's not necessarily around human capital management, but it's the well capitalized businesses of the world today. And today's day and age and this uncertainty of Brexit, uncertainty of the global climate, us, China trade relations, who's well capitalized to make and withstand what could be some, you know, unsettling times. Now there's another very interesting thing we saw with that same survey. Excuse me. Along with some of the things we saw with the wall street journal with some surveys we did with them, these finance professionals, they want to have that visibility and our answer to them come talk to us. >>So speaking of influence, inspiring, tell me a little bit about how the Coupa community influenced or is influencing the evolution of Coupa pay for example was Hey, we've got to have Amex virtual cards integrated with Coupa pay. Was that something that came from the voice of the community? Yeah, so we, >>you know, all across Koopa ever since the inception of the company, it's always around partnering with our customers, with our community to really listen and understand what they, what they're looking for. But doing it in the guy in the, within the framework of our core values as a customer, as a company. And the first one that I mentioned earlier, ensuring customer success. So we want to listen to our customers, we want to better understand them. So around virtual cards, you know, how do we choose to do an Amex or a Barclaycard? And to us it's actually pretty simple. We wanted to make sure that we're able to cover 80 to 90% of our customers with these large issuers. And we've been able to do that over the past year in negotiating these agreements, figuring out the technology components. And so we've been executing and delivering on that over the past, uh, over the past year. >>And if I understand that the press release correctly, KUKA pay with Amex virtual court integration is launching first in the UK and Australia. Correct. Can you tell me a little bit about those markets and what were some of the deciding factors? They said, Hey, well we'll go, we'll parlay on your title of acceleration. Is this, are these the right markets to launch and to accelerate copay? >>Yeah. Um, you know, there's obviously a lot of different ways and opportunities that American express has to go to market, massive company, great company to partner with. And so what we saw with them is from a technology standpoint, starting off in the UK and Australia made the most sense. We also have existing demand with customers that are ready to get going and really help us make sure that we create the right experience. You know, we expect this partnership to be really big and so as part of that, we want to make sure that we're able to deliver in certain markets first before we expand this and make this a much bigger thing. American express has a very prestigious brand. We want to respect and support that and we have our own brand that we want to support with our customers. We want to make sure we do it right. >>Well, Ravi, last question. I know that you're keynoting tomorrow. Yes. What are the couple of takeaways that you're going to leave the audience with tomorrow during your keynote? >>Yeah, it's a great, good question. I think the, the takeaways for tomorrow is we want to share some stories. You know, going back to inspiration, it's all about storytelling. Do we have stories to tell our customers such that they can relate to it and fall back on that? So we have three great customer speakers tomorrow. Really excited about the stories that they're going to share about Cooper pay and their journey with it. And my take away for our are the audiences. How do those stories relate to your business and is there a way that we can help you streamline your payment process? >>Awesome. Robbie, it's been a pleasure. You back on the cube. Best of luck at your keynote tomorrow and we'll see you at the next inspire. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. All right. For Ravi talker, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube from London. Coupa inspire 19.

>> Woman: From the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's the Cube. Covering Coupa Inspire 2019. Brought to you by Coupa. >> Hey you, welcome to the Cube. Lisa Martin coming to you from Las Vegas Coupa Inspire '19. I'm excited to be welcoming to the Cube for the first time, Ravi Thakur. The SVP of Business Acceleration from Coupa. Ravi welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you Lisa. Appreciate it. So day one, everybody had started the day off. The general session was lots of information from Rob. We heard from Malcolm Gladwell. One of my favorite storytellers. If I could master telling a story the way he does that would be awesome. We've also heard from some customers today. We had the Lululemon staples, KPMG, Deloitte. People are excited about the innovations and how Coupa is really helping to transform the CPO, the CFO and help these guys and girls become much more strategic. >> Ravi: Right >> Lots of change and lots of forcing functions too like consumerization and pricing pressures and and all these things. But something that you guys announced back in, I believe November 2018. Just about six months ago, was Coupa Pay. Talk to us a little bit about Coupa Pay in the spirit of this events theme of Spend Smarter. Together. What is Coupa Pay? What were some of the gaps in the market that you guys saw? And thought we can help B2B customers uncripple themselves. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for those questions Lisa. I've been with Coupa for over 12 years now and throughout that time I've have had thousands of conversations with Spend management professionals across all different topics. But whenever payments would come up there's always a sense of it's kind of a nightmare, it's a mess for us let's not talk about that. (laughing) And what we've seen is that. A lot of large companies have multiple ERP systems and when you have multiple ERP systems trying to get a hold of the data and be able to control the funds going out can be a little bit of a challenge. Then when you start mixing in that there's so many different ways to pay suppliers. Weather it's a credit card or a digital cheque or cross-border payment. Whatever it may be. It becomes a big conglomeration of a big nightmare. And so when we started looking at payments. We wanted to figure out well, how can we simplify this experience for our customers? Because we already have best in class procurement best in class AP automation. Adding payments was kind of an easy decision. >> Lisa: Natural evolution. >> A natural evolution of how we were progressing or kind of move into business spend manager categorization of Business Spend Management. And so when we started the journey we made the decision maybe about 18 months ago to actually start getting into this a little bit. And we started off as you mentioned last November with announcing virtual cards on purchase orders. We've started adding other things like early pay discounts. Which are kind of a financing type of solution and just yesterday, actually just today Rob announced general availability for invoice payments. Which is really the workhorse of payments. It's taking all of your invoices that you have as a company and how do you pay your different suppliers. >> Lisa: I can imagine a company would have multiple banks that they're dealing with to pay different suppliers different suppliers, probably had different preferences and then what's the percentage of invoices that are being paid by cheque by paper cheque still. >> Ravi: Yeah, I mean in the U.S. I think I had a statistic from 2016. It's a couple of years dated but it said 51% of payments in the U.S. is still via cheque. It's crazy. And I had a meeting earlier today with a pretty large customer. And they're telling me about how their treasury the woman that runs treasury for them. She walks around with the key fob of 12 different key fobs, for two-factor authentication to log in to 12 different banks, all over the world. And a lot of that is very painful it opens themselves up to a lot of inefficiencies to risk, to potential fraud and with the payment solutions that we're offering that we're actually now generally available with. We're able to solve a lot of those challenges it's really exciting for us. >> Absolutely. And driving up the efficiency of accounts payable by having all of these options. Can imagine from a customer's perspective all of the elements in that business they're going to get tighter going to get more simple and where it's going to really be an enabler of an organization's overall digital business transformation >> Right, it's one of the last areas of transformation we see in Business Spend Management. We've already as mentioned the procurement process AP automation, where we handle expense reporting and now when you're starting to look at payments and doing it at the scale that we're looking at doing. There are a lot of payment solutions out there a lot of payment providers. But none of them have the backing of the procurement process None of them have the rich invoice data that we bring to the table. Let alone the ability for us to send payments due payments domestically, across the globe. Which is a very unique differentiator for us. Along with being able to pay out cross-border payments in hundreds of countries. Now the other thing that we've seen from organizations especially as the the way that the economy and organizations have evolved. You're not just paying a supplier that has ACH information They're not willing to provide you with their bank account information. Might be a five-person flower shop that you need to buy flowers from occasion. It may be temp labour that you have hired for certain projects. Or contingent workforce for certain projects. Or maybe even paying back your employees through expense reports. And so as we've architected our payment solutions we've looked at all of these together and figure it out what are the different optimal ways to do that. As a matter of fact we're announcing a partnership with PayPal. So in order to now send payments via PayPal from a business PayPal account from our customer to the PayPal accounts of their some of their smaller suppliers. So that's a unique way that we're thinking about what are the common use cases scenarios in the consumer world and bringing that into the business environment. >> Yeah, that consumerization effect is so interesting because we're all consumers every day. Weather we're shopping for some beach wear for a backyard barbecue or something on Amazon or whatever happens to be. We have this expectation, culturally we're trained we can find anything. We get anything, we can see all the suppliers and the different prices and select. Read all these reviews. Because we're so conditioned to that in our everyday lives those people that are doing that then have buying decisions and buying roles and their company's expect the same experience. >> Ravi: Right >> And you guys are listening to your customers and enabling that which is huge hugely impactful to every industry, right? Manufacturing, Retail, Health Care you name it. >> Any business that has employees which is every business in the world. It's a great point. I mean just a consumerization of all of these different aspects of business and that's where, when we started Coupa and as we've continued to grow throughout our expansion it's just really listening to our customers listening to the vibrant community that we've created. I met a lot of meetings today and I met with another customer a couple of hours ago and he was super excited about how he's been on our Coupa Community. We have a portal for our customers. They can put in their ideas and talk about and have conversations. He just loves the way that we've been able to react and be able to implement a number of his solutions that have made his life easier along with the broader community of buyers that we have. >> All the marketing material talks about this BSM community that is developing together and that was one of the themes I felt that I heard from Rob this morning during his general session is this. Not only is this community incredibly rich with data 1.2 trillion dollars of spend they are going through this which is a 5X multiplier from I think you should have said this at 2016. But it's also encouraging, suppliers that are in there customers that are in there are able to to learn and save from each other. The collaboration element was really, I thought quite potent and it sounded like quite a differentiator to me. >> Right, absolutely. I think Rob talked about what we're calling prescriptions. >> Yes, 18'000 so far? >> Exactly, and you know the ability to take a look at it's not just $1.2 trillion worth of spend. It's 5 million suppliers. It's not all of them have catalog items but a lot of them do have catalog items. It's looking across millions of purchase order millions of invoices across the system and being able to rationalize and look at data and look at all of these different trends that no one's able to do and really it's just the beginning of the power of what we're doing. We've introduced our business spend index. Which is a leading indicator of how the economy and businesses are operating. We're really just starting to scratch the surface in this area, I mean a thousand customers is great. But as we continue to grow and expand and multiply our customer base. We're going to be able to help things around broader supply chain initiatives. Help things around sustainability. Help organizations figure out are they working with suppliers that are not only suppliers that are risky which we do today. But what about tier two suppliers or tier three suppliers that have a potential risk in their supply chain. And as we start to accumulate lot more data we're able to do things that really no one's ever been able to do, ever. >> Lisa: Thinking back that the 12 years that you have at Coupa and the massive transformation that you've seen in every industry. All of these different disruptors. Like we talked about earlier, all of the changes that are really forcing CPO's and CFO's to become sort of those fraud detectors and those strategic thinkers. Because they can see there this isn't just about buying and sourcing. There is tremendous business potential by having that visibility where all your Spend is in one platform. That's absolutely transformational. >> What do businesses do? They spend money or they sell goods or services and we have half of that equation and we're doing it at a scale that hasn't been seen before. So yeah, the ability for us to over what we've seen over the past 12 years. Not just what's happening at a macro economic level that's a big part of it. But just in general. What's the thinking of the CPO's? What's the thinking of the CFO's? How are they starting to look at things? How are they starting to feel the empathy for their employees. The empathy for their suppliers and making business decisions. And we're now part of that conversation. We're part of that equation as these companies are looking at these things. >> And have you seen the roles of the CPO and the CFO start to change, to start embracing emerging technologies embracing AI and machine learning and understanding how that can really once they have the data and they can apply intelligence and train the machines, how much potential they have. Are they receptive now? >> Ravi: It's just a start. it's just a start. I mean, when I joined Coupa 12 years ago Salesforce is really just starting to get going with the whole SAS thing and it's been a phenomenal change. We had the opportunity of lunch with Malcolm Gladwell today as an executive team and one of the things that we talked about was Silicon Valley and what's happening in general with technology. And he put it very clear, he said we're in the first minute of the technology revolution. It's still super early and how things are moving and transforming in this world We're at the forefront today and we want to continue to be there as the world changes. >> Lisa: So lots of exciting news today you mentioned PayPal. What are some of the other things that are going to be coming out this week that are exciting to you and your customers? >> So a lot of things that are coming out for payments specifically, we're going to be announcing a number of partnerships in the morning. I'll be announcing a number of partnerships on the main stage. We're doing, as mentioned, something with PayPal. We're going to announce that Citibank has joined as a virtual card issuer on the Coupa Pay platform. They're one of the largest global issuers in the world. We're introducing TransferMate as a strategic partner for money movement. And kind of one of the more unique things is when you think about payments and when you think about our community of buyers and suppliers. It's buyers and it's suppliers. And so we want to start spending more time and more focus at least from a payment standpoint on how can we make it easier for suppliers to do business with our customers. We're also going to announce an integration with Stripe. So Stripe is one of the, the bigger Fintechs in the world One of the darling Fintech companies around. And what they're doing is because of their capabilities around the card processing standpoint. Not to get into too much the details but we can now enable a super or a higher level of efficiency for card acceptance for suppliers that hasn't been seen before through our Virtual Card capabilities. So we're really excited about these partnerships and there's a lot more to come over the next several months here. >> To borrow this from Malcolm Gladwell the fact that he thinks we're in the first minute of this technology revolution, is like oh! Shocking. But all I've heard all day today is customer centricity, supplier centricity. Ravi thank you so much, for stopping by the Cube and giving us some of your time on this very exciting day. I know day two will be, probably as action-packed. Tomorrow, but we appreciate your time. >> Thank you very much. >> My pleasure >> Appreciate it. For Ravi Thakur, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Coupa Inspire '19. Thanks for watching (upbeat music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Ferrier. You're watching the Cube live at Del Technologies World twenty nineteen. This is our second full day of Double Cube set coverage. We've got a couple of we're gonna really cool conversation coming up for you. We've got Robbie Pender County, one of our alumni on the cue back as VP product management server solutions. Robbie, Welcome back. >> Thank you, Lisa. Much appreciated. >> And you brought some Hollywood? Yes. Glenn Glenn ER, president of Sony Innovation Studios. Glenn and welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >> So you are love this intersection of Hollywood and technology. But you're a filmmaker. >> Yeah. I have been filming movies for many years. Uh, I started off making motion pictures for many years. Executive produced him and over so production for them at one of our movie labels called Screen Gems, which is part of Sony Pictures. >> Wait a tremendous amount of evolution of the creative process being really fueled by technology and vice versa. Sony Innovation Studios is not quite one year old. This is a really exciting venture. Tell us about that and and what the the impetus was to start this company. >> You know that the genesis for it was based out of necessity because I looked at a nice Well, you know, I love making movies were doing it for a long time. And the challenge of making good pictures is resource is and you never get enough money believing not you never get enough money and never get enough time. That's everybody's issue, particularly time management. And I thought, Well, you know, we got a pretty good technology company behind us. What if we looked inward towards technology to help us find solutions? And so innovation studios is born out of that idea on what was exciting about it was to know that we had, uh, invited partners to the game right here with Del so that we could make movies and television shows and commercials and even enterprise solutions leaning into state of the art and cutting edge technology. >> And what some of the work prize and you guys envision coming out this mission you mentioned commercials. TV is it going to be like an artist's studio actor? Ackerson Ball is Take us through what this is going to look like. How does it get billed out? >> I lean into my career as a producer. To answer that one and say is going to enable that's one of the greatest things about being a producer is enabling stories, uh, inspiring ideas to be Greenland. That may not have been able to be done so before. And there's a key reason why we can't do that, because one of our key technologies is what we call the volumetric image acquisition. That's a lot of words. You probably say. What the heck is that? But a volumetric image acquisition is our ability to capture a real world, this analog world and digitize it, bring it into our servers using the power of Del and then live in that new environment, which is now a virtual sets. And that virtual set is made out of billions and trillions in quadrillions of points, much like the matter around us. And it's a difference because many people use pixels, which is interpretation of like worry, using points which is representative of the world around us, so it's a whole revolutionary way of looking at it. But what it allows us to do is actually film in it in a thirty K moving volume. >> It's like a monster green screen for the world. Been away >> in a way, your your your your action around it because you have peril X so these cameras could be photographing us. And for all you know, we may not be here. Could be at stage seven at Innovation Studios and not physically here, but you couldn't tell it. If >> this is like cloud computing, we talking check world, you don't the provisional these resource is you just get what you want. This is Hollywood looking at the artistry, enabling faster, more agile storytelling. You don't need to go set up a town and go get the permit. All the all the heavy lifting you're shooting in this new digital realm. >> That's right. Exactly. Now I love going on location on. There's a lot to celebrate about going on location, but we can always get to that location. Think of all the locations that we want to be in that air >> base off limits. Both space, the one I >> haven't been, uh, but but on said I've been I've walked on virtual moons and I've walked on set moons. But what if we did a volumetric image acquisition of someone set off the moon? Now we have that, and then we can walk around it. Or what if there's a great club, a nightclub? This says guys want you shoot here, but we have performances Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night there. You know they have a job. What if we grab that image, acquired it, and then you could be there anytime you want. >> Robbie, we could go for an hour here. This is just a great comic. I >> completely agree with you. >> The Cube. You could. You could sponsor a cube in this new world. We could run the Q twenty four seven. That's absolutely >> right. And we don't even have >> to talk about the relationship with Dale because on Del Technologies, because you're enabling new capabilities. New kind of artistry was just totally cool. Want to get back to the second? But you guys were involved. What's your role? How do you get involved? Tell the story about your >> John. I mean, first and foremost one of things that didn't Glendon mention is he's actually got about fifty movies to his credit. So the guy actually knows this stuff, so which is absolutely fantastic. So we said, How do you go take average to the next level? So what else is better than trying to work something out, wherein we together between what Glenn and Esteem does at the Sony Innovation Labs for Studio Sorry. And as in Dead Technologies could do is to try and actually stretch the boundaries of our technology to a next tent that when he talks about kazillion bytes of data right one followed the harmony of our zeros way have to be able to process the data quickly. We have to be able to go out and do their rendering. We probably have to go out and do whatever is needed to make a high quality movie, and that, I think, in a way, is actually giving us an opportunity to go back and test the boundaries of their technology. They're building, which we believe this is the first of its kind in the media industry. If we can go learn together from this experience, we can actually go ahead and do other things in other industries. To maybe, and we were just talking about how we could also take this. He's got his labs here in Los Angeles, were thinking maybe one of the next things we do based on the learnings we get, we probably could take it to other parts of the world. And if we are successful, we might even take it to other industries. What if we could go do something to help in this field of medicine? >> It's just thinking that, right? Yes. >> Think about it. Lisa, John. I mean, it's phenomenal. I mean, this is something Michael always talks about is how do we as del technologies help in progress in the human kind? And if this is something that we can learn from, I think it's going to be phenomenal. >> I think I think that's so interesting. Not only is that a good angle for Del Technologies, the thing that strikes me is the access toe artist trees, voices, new voices that may be missed in the prop the vetting process the old way. But, you know, you got to know where we're going. No, in the Venture Capital way seen this with democratization of seed labs and incubators, where, if you can create access to the story, tells on the artists we're gonna have one more exposure to people might have missed. But also as things change, like whether it's Ray Ray beaming and streaming, we saw in the gaming side to pull a metric or volumetric things. You're gonna have a better canvas, more paint brushes on the creative side and more. Artist. Is that the mission to get AC, get those artists in there? Is it? Is that part of the core mission submission? Because you're going to be essentially incubating new opportunities really fast. >> It's, uh, it's very important to me. Personally. I know it speaks of the values of both Sony and L. I like to call it the democratization of storytelling. You know, I've been very blessed again, a Hollywood producer, and we maybe curate a certain kind of movie, a certain kind of experience. But there's so many voices around the world that need to be hurt, and there are so many stories that otherwise can't be enabled. Imagine a story that perhaps is a unique >> special voice but requires distance. It requires five disparate locations Perhaps it's in London, Piccadilly Circus and in Times Square. And perhaps it's overto Abu Dhabi on DH Libya somewhere because that's part of the story. We can now collapse geography and bring those locations to a central place and allow a story to be told that may not otherwise have been able to be created. And that's vital to the fabric of storytelling worldwide's >> going change the creative process to you don't have to have that waterfall kind of mentality like we don't talk about intact. You're totally distributed content, decentralized, potentially the creative process going change with all the tools and also the visual tools. >> That's right. It's >> almost becoming unlimited. >> You wanted to be unlimited. You want the human spirit to be unlimited. You want to be able to elevate people on. That's the great thing about what we're trying to achieve and will achieve. >> It is your right. I mean, it is interesting, you know, we were just talking about this, too. Uh, we're in, you know, as an example. Shock tank. Yes, right. I mean, they obviously did it. The filming and stuff, and then they don't have the access. Let's say to the right studio. But the fact is, they had all this done. Andi, you know, they had all the rendering they had captured. Already done. You could now go out and do your chute without having all the space you needed. >> That's right. In the case of Shark Tank, which shoots a Sony Pictures studios, they knew they had a real estate issue. The fact of the matter is, there's a limited amount of sound stages around the world. They needed to sound stages and only had access to one. So we went in and we did a volumetric image acquisition of their exit interview stage. They're set. And then when it came time to shoot the second half a season ten, one hundred contestants went into a virtual set and were filmed in that set. And the funny thing is, one of the guys in the truck you know how you have the camera trucks and, you know, off offstage, he leaned into the mike. Is that you guys, could you move that plant a couple inches to the left and somebody said, Uh, I don't think we can do it right now, he said, We're on a movie lot. You could move a plant. They said No, it's physically not there. We're on innovation studios goes Oh, that's right. It's virtual mind. >> So he was fooled. >> He was pulled. In a way, we're >> being hashing it out within a team. When we heard about some of the things you know Glenn and Team are doing is think about this. If you have to teach people when we are running short of doctors, right? Yeah, if you could. With this technology and the learnings that come from here, if you could go have an expert surgeon do surgery once you're captured, it would be nice. Just imagine, to take that learning, go to the new surgeons of the future and trained them and so they can get into the act without actually doing it. So my point and all this is this is where I think we can take technology, that next level where we can not only learn from one specific industry, but we could potentially put it to human good in terms of what we could to and not only preparing the next of doctors, but also take it to the next level. >> This was a great theme to Michael Dell put out there about these new kinds of use case is that the time is now to do before. Maybe you could get there technology, but maybe aspirational. Hey, let's do it. I could see that, Glenn, I want to ask you specifically. The time is now. This is all kind of coming together. Timing's pretty good. It's only gonna get better. It's gonna be good Tech, Tech mojo Coming for the creative side. Where were we before? Because I can almost imagine this is not a new vision for you. Probably seen it now that this house here now what was it like before for, um and compare contrast where you were a few years ago, maybe decades. Now what's different? Why? Why is this so important >> for me? There's a fundamental change in how we can create content and how we can tell stories. It used to be the two most expensive words in the movie TV industry were what if today that the most important words to me or what if Because what if we could collapse geography? What if we could empower a new story? Technology is at a place where, if we can dream it. Chances are we can make it a reality. We're changing the dynamics of how we may content. He used to be lights, action camera. I think it's now lights, action, compute power action, you know, is that kind of difference. >> That is an amazing vision. I think society now has opportunities to kind of take that from distance learning to distance connections, the distance sharing experiences, whether it's immersion, virtual analog face, the face could really be powerful. Yeah, >> and this is not even a year old. >> That's right. >> So if you look at your your launch, you said, I think let june fourth twenty eighteen. What? Where do you go from here? I mean, like we said, this is like, unlimited possibilities. But besides putting Robbie in the movie, naturally, Yes, of course I have >> a star here >> who? E. >> So I got to say he's got star power. >> What's what's next year? Exactly? >> Very exciting. I will say we have shark tank Thie Advanced Imaging Society gives an award for being the first volume met you set ever put out on the airwaves. Uh, for that television show is a great honor. We have already captured uh, men in black. We captured a fifty thousand square foot stage that had the men in black headquarters has been used for commercials to market the film that comes out this June. We have captured sets where television shows >> and in hopes, that they got a second season and one television show called up and said, Guys, we got the second season so they don't have to go back to what was a very expensive set and a beautiful set >> way captured that set. It reminds me of a story of productions and a friend of mine said, which is every year. The greatest gift I have is building a beautiful set and and to me, the biggest challenges. When I say, remember that sent you built four years ago? I need that again. Now you can go >> toe. It's hard to replicate the exact set. You capture it digitally. It lives. >> That's exactly it. >> And this is amazing. I mean, I'd love to do a cube set into do ah, like a simulcast. Virtually. >> So. This is the next thing John and Lisa. You guys could be sitting anywhere going forward >> way. You don't have to be really sitting here >> you could be doing. What do you have to do? And, you know, you got everything rendered >> captured. We don't have to come to Vegas twenty times a year. >> We billed upset once. You >> know you want to see you here believing that So I'LL take that >> visual is a really beautiful thing. So if we can with hologram just seeing people doing conscious with Hollywood. Frank Zappa just did a concert hologram concert, but bringing real people and from communities around the world where the localization diversity right into a content mixture is just so powerful. >> Actually, you said something very interesting, John, which is one of the other teams to which is, if you have a globally connected society and he wanted try and personalize it to that particular nation ethnicity group. You can do that easily now because you can probably pop in actors from the local area with the same. Yeah, think about it. >> It's surely right. >> There's a cascade of transformations that that this is going Teo to generate. I mean just thinking of how different even acting schools and drama schools will be well, teaching people how to behave in these virtual environments, right? >> How to immerse themselves in these environments. And we have tricks up our sleeves that Khun put the actor in that moment through projection mapping and the other techniques that allow filmmakers and actors to actually understand the world. They're about to stepped in rather than a green screen and saying, OK, there's going to be a creature over here is gonna be blue Water falls over there will actually be able to see that environment because that environment will exist before they step on the stage. >> Well, great job the Del Partnership. On my final question, Glenn, free since you're awesome and got a great vision so smart, experienced, I've been really thinking a lot about how visualization and artistry are coming together and how disciplines silo disciplines like music. They do great music, but they're not translating to the graphics. It was just some about Ray tracing and the impact with GP use for an immersive experiences, which we're seeing on the client side of the house. It del So you got the back and stuff you metrics. And so, as artist trees, the next generation come up. This is now a link between the visual that audio the storytelling. It's not a siloed. >> It is not >> your I want to get your vision on. How do you see this playing out and your advice for young artists? That might be, you know, looked as country. What do you know? That's not how we do it. >> Well, the beautiful thing is that there are new ways to tell stories. You know, Hollywood has evolved over the last century. If you look at the studios and still exist, they have all evolved, and that's why they do exist. Great storytellers evolved. We tell stories differently, so long as we can emotionally relate to the story that's being told. I say, Do it in your own voice. The cinematic power is among us. We're blessed that when we look back, we have that shared experience, whether it's animate from Japan or traditional animation from Walt Disney everybody, she shares a similar history. Now it's opportunity to author our new stories, and we can do that and physical assets and volumetric assets and weaken blend the real and the unreal. With the compute power. The world is our oyster. >> Wow, >> What a nice >> trap right there. >> Exactly. That isn't my job. The transformation of of Hollywood. What it's really like the tip of the iceberg. Unlimited story potential. Thank you, Glenn. Thank you. This has been a fascinating cannot wait to hear, See and feel and touch What's next for Sony Animation studios With your technology power, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. Thank you both. Which of >> our pleasure for John Carrier? I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube lie from Del Technologies World twenty nineteen We've just wrapped up Day two we'LL see you tomorrow.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with John Ferrier. You're watching the Cube live at Del Technologies World twenty nineteen. This is our second full day of Double Cube set coverage. We've got a couple of we got a really cool conversation coming up for you. We've got Robbie Pender County, one of our alumni on the cue back as VP product management server solutions. Robbie, Welcome back. >> Thank you, Lisa. Much appreciated. >> And you brought some Hollywood? Yes, Glenn Glenn er, president of Sony Innovation Studios. Glenn and welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much. It's great to be here. >> So you are love this intersection of Hollywood and technology. But you're a filmmaker. >> Yeah, I have been filming movies for many years. I started off making motion pictures for many years. Executive produced him and oversaw production for them at one of our movie labels called Screen Gems, which is part of Sony Pictures. >> Wait a tremendous amount of evolution of the creative process being really fueled by technology and vice versa. Sony Innovation Studios is not quite one year old. This is a really exciting venture. Tell us about that and and what the The impetus was to start this company. >> You know that the genesis for it was based out of necessity because I looked at a nice Well, you know, I love making movies were doing it for a long time. And the challenge of making good pictures is resource is and you never get enough money. Believe or not, you never get enough money and never get enough time. That's everybody's issue, particularly time management. And I thought, Well, you know, we got a pretty good technology company behind us. What if we looked inward towards technology to help us find solutions? And so innovation studios is born out of that idea on what was exciting about it was to know that we had, uh, invited partners to the game right here with Del so that we could make movies and television shows and commercials and even enterprise solutions leaning into state of the art and cutting edge technology. >> And what some of the work private you guys envision coming out this mission you mentioned commercials TV. Is it going to be like an artist's studio actor actress in ball is take us through what this is going to look like. How does it get billed out? >> I lean into my career as a producer. To answer that one and say is going to enable that's one of the greatest things about being a producer is enabling stories, uh, inspiring ideas to be green lit that may not have been able to be done so before. And there's a key reason why we can't do that, because one of our key technologies is what we call the volumetric image acquisition. That's a lot of words. You probably say. What the heck is that? But a volumetric image acquisition is our ability to capture a real world, this analog world and digitize it, bring it into our servers using the power of Del and then live in that new environment, which is now a virtual sets. And that virtual set is made out of billions and trillions in quadrillions of points, much like the matter around us. And that's a difference because many people use pixels, which is interpretation of like we're using points which is representative of the world around us, so it's a whole revolutionary way of looking at it. But what it allows us to do is actually film in it in a thirty K moving volume. >> It's like a monster green screen for the world. Been away >> in a way, you're you're you're interaction around it because you have peril X, so these cameras could be photographing us. And for all you know, we may not be here. Could be at stage seven at Innovation Studios and not physically here, but you couldn't tell the >> difference. This is like cloud computing. We talking check world, you don't the provisional these resource is you just get what you want. This is Hollywood looking at the artistry, enabling faster, more agile storytelling. You don't need to go set up a town and go get the permit. All the all the heavy lifting you're shooting in this new digital realm. >> That's right. Exactly. Now I love going on location on There's a lot to celebrate about going on location, but we can always get to that location. Think of all the locations that we want to be in that air >> base off limits. Both space, the one I >> haven't been, uh, but but on said I've been I've walked on virtual moons and I've walked on set moons. But what if we did a volumetric image acquisition of someone set off the moon? Now we have that, and then we can walk around it. Or what if there's a great club, a nightclub? This says guys and wanted to shoot here. But we have performances Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night there. You know they have a job. What? We grabbed that image acquired it. And then you could be there anytime you want. >> Robbie, we could go for an hour here. This is just a great comic. I >> completely agree with >> you. The Cube. You could You could sponsor a cube in this new world. We could run the Q twenty four seven is absolutely >> right. And we don't even have >> to talk about the relationship with Dale because on Del Technologies, because you're enabling new capabilities. New kind of artistry, just totally cool. Want to get back to the second? But you guys were involved. What's your role? How do you get involved? Tell the story about your >> John. I mean, first and foremost one of the things didn't Glendon mention is he's actually got about fifty movies to his credit. So the guy actually knows this stuff. So which is absolutely fantastic. So we said, How do you go take coverage to the next level? So what else is better than trying to work something out, wherein we together between what Glenn and Esteem does at the Sony Innovation Labs for Studio Sorry. And as in Dead Technologies could do is to try and actually stretch the boundaries of our technology to a next tent that when he talks about kazillion bytes of data right one followed by harmony, our zeros. We have to be able to process the data quickly. We have to be able to go out and do their rendering. We probably have to go out and do whatever is needed to make a high quality movie, and that, I think, in a way, is actually giving us an opportunity to go back and test the boundaries of their technology. They're building, which we believe this is the first of its kind in the media industry. If we can go learn together from this experience, we can actually go ahead and do other things in other industries do. Maybe. And we were just talking about how we could also take this. He's got his labs here in Los Angeles, were thinking maybe one of the next things we do based on the learning to get. We probably could take it to other parts of the world. And if we are successful, we might even take it to other industries. What if we could go do something to help in this field of medicine? >> It's just thinking that, right? Yes. Think >> about it. Lisa, John. I mean, it's phenomenal. I mean, this is something Michael always talks about is how do we as del technologies help in progress in the human kind? And if this is something that we can learn from, I think it's going to be phenomenal. >> I think I think that's so interesting. Not only is that a good angle for Del Technologies, the thing that strikes me is the access to artist trees, voices, new voices that may be missed in the prop the vetting process the old way. But, you know, you got to know where we're going. No, in the venture, cobble way seen this with democratization of seed labs and incubators where, if you can create access to the story, tells on the artists we're gonna have one more exposure to people might have missed. But also as things change, like whether it's Ray Ray beaming and streaming we saw in the gaming side to volumetric or volumetric things, you're gonna have a better canvas, more paint brushes on the creative side and more action. Is that the mission to get AC Get those artists in there? Is it? Is that part of the core mission submission? Because you're going to be essentially incubating new opportunities really fast. >> It's, uh, it's very important to me. Personally. I know it speaks of the values of both Sony and L. I like to call it the democratization of storytelling. You know, I've been very blessed again, a Hollywood producer, and we maybe curate a certain kind of movie, a certain kind of experience. But there's so many voices around the world that need to be hurt, and there are so many stories that otherwise can't be enabled. Imagine a story that perhaps is >> a unique special voice but requires distance. It requires five disparate locations. Perhaps it's in London Piccadilly Circus and in Times Square. And perhaps it's overto Abu Dhabi on DH Libya somewhere because that's part of the story. We can now collapse geography and bring those locations to a central place and allow a story to be told that may not otherwise have been able to be created. And that's vital to the fabric of storytelling. Worldwide >> is going to change the creative process to You don't have to have that waterfall kind of mentality like we don't talk about intact. You're totally distributed content, decentralized, potentially the creative process going change with all the tools and also the visual tools. >> That's right. It's >> almost becoming unlimited. >> You want it to be unlimited. You want the human spirit to be unlimited. You want to be able to elevate people on. That's the great thing about what we're trying to achieve and will achieve. >> It is your right. I mean, it is interesting, you know, we were just talking about this too. We're in, you know, as an example, shock tank. Yes, right. I mean, they obviously did it the filming and stuff, and then they don't have the access, let's say to the right studio, but The fact is, there had all this done on DH. No, they had all the rendering. They had the captured already done. You could now go out and do your chute without having all the space you needed. >> That's right. In the case of Shark Tank, which shoots a Sony Pictures studios, they knew they had a real estate issue. The fact of the matter is, there's a limited amount of sound stages around the world. They needed to sound stages and only had access to one. So we went in and we did a volumetric image acquisition of their exit interview stage. They're set. And then when it came time to shoot the second half a season ten, one hundred contestants went into a virtual set and were filmed in that set. And the funny thing is, one of the guys in the truck you know how you have the camera trucks and, you know, off offstage, he leaned into the mike. Is that you guys, could you move that plant a couple inches to the left and somebody said, Uh, I don't think we can do it right now, he said. We're on a movie lot. You could move a plant. They said, No, it's physically not there. We're on innovation studios goes Oh, that's right. It's virtual mind. >> So he was fooled. >> He was pulled. In a way, we're >> being hashing it out within a team. When we heard about some of the things you know Glenn and Team are doing is think about this. If you have to teach people when we are running short of doctors, right? Yeah, if you could. With this technology and the learnings that come from here, if you could go have an expert surgeon do surgery once you're captured, it would be nice. Just imagine, to take that learning, go to the new surgeons of the future and trained them and so they can get into the act without actually doing it. So my point in all this is this is where I think we can take technology, that next level where we can not only learn from one specific industry, but we could potentially put it to human good in terms of what we could to and not only preparing the next of doctors, but also take it to the next level. >> This was a great theme to Michael Dell put out there about these new kinds of use case is that the time is now to do before. Maybe you couldn't get there with technology, but maybe aspirational, eh? Let's do it. I could see that. Glenn, I want to ask you specifically. The time is now. This is all kind of coming together. Timing's pretty good. It's only gonna get better. It's gonna be good. Tech, Tech mojo Coming for the creative side. Where were we before? Because I could almost imagine this is not a new vision for you. Probably seen it now that this house here now what was it like before for, um and compare contrast where you were a few years ago, maybe decades. Now what's different? Why? Why is this so important? >> You know, for me, there's a fundamental change in how we can create content and how we can tell stories. It used to be the two most expensive words in the movie TV industry were what if today that the most important words to me or what if Because what if we could collapse geography? What if we could empower a new story? Technology is at a place where if we can dream it. Chances are we can make it a reality. We're changing the dynamics of how we may content. He used to be lights, action, camera. I think it's now lights, action, compute power action, you know, is that kind of difference. >> That is an amazing vision. I think society now has opportunities to kind of take that from distance learning to distance connections, the distance sharing experiences, whether it's immersion, virtual analog face the face. I could really be powerful. Yeah, >> and this is not even a year old. >> That's right. >> So if you look at your your launch, you said, I think let june fourth twenty eighteen. What? Where do you go from here? I mean, like we said, this is like, unlimited possibilities. But besides putting Robbie in the movie, naturally, Yes, of course I have >> a star here >> who video. >> So I got to say he's got star power. >> What's what. The next year? Exactly. >> Very exciting. I will say we have shark tank Thie Advanced Imaging Society gives an award for being the first volume metric set ever put out on the airwaves. Uh, for that television show was a great honor. Uh, we have already captured, uh, men in black. We captured a fifty thousand square foot stage that had the men in black headquarters has been used for commercials to market the film that comes out this June. We have captured sets where television >> shows and in the in hopes that they got a second season and one television show called up and said, Guys, we got the second season so they don't have to go back to what was a very expensive set and a beautiful set >> Way captured that set. It reminds me of a story of productions and a friend of mine said, which is every year. The greatest gift I have is building a beautiful set and and to me, the biggest challenges. When I say, remember that sent you built four years ago. I need that again. Now you can go >> toe hard, replicate the exact set, you capture it digitally. It lives. >> That's exactly it. >> And this is amazing. I mean, I'd love to do a cube set into do ah, like a simulcasts. Virtually. >> So. This is the next thing John and Lisa. You guys could be sitting anywhere going forward. We don't have to be really sitting here you could be doing. What do you have to do? And, you know, you got everything rendered >> captured. We don't have to come to Vegas twenty times a year. >> We billed upset once >> You want to see you here believing that So I'LL take that >> visual is a really beautiful thing. So if we can with hologram just seeing people doing conscious. But Hollywood Frank Zappa just did a concert hologram concert, but bringing real people and from communities around the world where the localization diversity right into a content mixture is just so powerful. >> Actually, you said something very interesting, John, which is one of the other teams to which is, if you have a globally connected society and he wanted try and personalize it to that particular nation ethnicity group. You can do that easily now because you can probably pop in actors from the local area with the same city. Yeah, think about it. >> It's surely right. >> There's a cascade of transformations that that this is going Teo to generate. I mean just thinking of how different even acting schools and drama schools will be well, teaching people how to behave in these virtual environments, right? >> How to immerse themselves in these environments. And we have tricks up our sleeves that Khun put the actor in that moment through projection mapping and the other techniques that allow filmmakers and actors to actually understand the world. They're about to stepped in rather than a green screen and saying, OK, there's going to be a creature over here is gonna be blue Water Falls over there will actually be able to see that environment because that environment will exist before they step on the stage. >> Well, great job the Dale Partnership On my final question, Glenn free since you're awesome and got a great vision so smart, experienced, I've been really thinking a lot about how visualization and artistry are coming together and how disciplines silo disciplines like music. They do great music, but they're not translating to the graphics. It was just some about Ray tracing and the impact with GP use for immersive experiences, which was seeing on the client side of the house. It del So you got the back and stuff, but you metrics. And so, as artist trees, the next generation come up. This is now a link between the visual that audio, the storytelling. It's not a siloed. >> It is not >> your I want to get your vision on. How do you see this playing out and your advice for young artists? That might be, you know, looked as country. What do you know? That's not how we do it. >> Well, the beautiful thing is that there are new ways to tell stories. You know, Hollywood has evolved over the last century. If you look at the studios and still exist, they have all evolved, and that's why they do exist. Great storytellers evolved. We tell stories differently, so long as we can emotionally relate to the story that's being told. I say Do it in your own voice. The cinematic power is among us. We're blessed that when we look back, we have that shared experience, whether it's animate from Japan or traditional animation from Walt Disney, everybody shares a similar history. Now it's opportunity to author our new stories and we can do that and physical assets and volumetric assets and weakened blend the real and the unreal. With the compute power. The world is our oyster. >> Wow, >> What a nice >> trap right there. >> Exactly that is, um I dropped the transformation of Hollywood. What? And it's really think the tip of the iceberg. Unlimited story potential. Thank you, Glenn. Thank you. This has been a fascinating cannot wait to hear, See and feel and touch What's next for Sony Animation studios With your technology power We appreciate your time. >> Yeah, Thank you. Thank you both of >> our pleasure for John Farrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube lie from Del Technologies World twenty nineteen We've just wrapped up Day two we'LL see you tomorrow.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, day three in Las Vegas at Dell Technologies World. I am Lisa Martin with John Troyer. We have been here for three days, there's over 14,000 people here, 30,000 plus more engaging with video content livestream on demand. We're excited to welcome back to theCUBE, not just back to theCUBE, but back today for a second appearance, he's so in demand, Ravi Pendekanti, Senior Vice President, Servers and Systems Product Management and Marketing at Dell EMC, welcome back! >> Thank you, Lisa, great to be here. >> So, you have so much energy for day three, but so much excitement, lots of announcements. >> Ravi: Yes. >> The theme of this event, "Make It Real," is provocative. We've heard a lot of >> Yes it is. >> Lisa: Interpretations about what that means for different customers and different industries who are looking to take advantage of emerging technologies: AI, machine learning, deep learning, IoT, to make digital transformation real. What's going on in the world of AI and machine learning? >> Lisa, a lot. Now, having said that, I don't think there's a single industry in the, in any part of the world today that we talk to that's not interested in AI, machine learning, for that matter, deep learning. Why is that so? Just think about the fact that each one of us today is probably creating and generating two and a half times more data than a year ago. It's huge. I mean, when I started out, people used to think megabytes is huge, then it went to terabytes, petabytes, exabytes, and now I think very soon we're going to talk about zettabytes, right? I'll leave it to you guys to talk about the number of zeros, but setting that aside, data by itself again, the second they went, so of much of data is being created, data in my view has absolutely no value until you create information out of it. >> Lisa: Absolutely. >> And that's where I think companies are becoming more aware of the fact that you need to start getting some information out of it, wherein starts the whole engine, first of all about going about collecting all of the data. And we have all kinds of data. We have got structured data, unstructured data, and now it's important that we actually get all of the disparate data into a format that can now be executed upon. So that's first and foremost what customers are trying to figure out. And then from there comes all the elements that the data analytics part, and then you can go into the machine learning and deep learning. So that's the way people are looking at it, and you made an interesting comment, Lisa, which is making it real. This is where people are looking at things beyond the buzzwords, right? It's sufficed to say AI is not a new term. I recall as a kid, we used to talk about AI. But now is when businesses are depending on it to ensure they have the competitive edge. >> So, Ravi, you know the pendulum swings, right, and ten years ago, >> It does. >> John: Software is eating the world and the cloud is coming, and at one point it looked like a future of undifferentiated x86 compute somewhere. It turns out, hardware actually matters, and as our application and data needs have grown, the hardware matters. >> It does. >> John: And so, part of your portfolio is the PowerEdge set of PowerEdge servers. I mean, how are you approaching that of making the needs of this new generation of software, this massive data parallelism and throughput real? >> Great question, John. It's interesting, yes, the pendulum keeps swinging, right? And the beauty is, as... It's my only hope that, as the pendulum swings, we're actually learning, too, and we're not making the same thing, the same mistakes. Thankfully, we are not. Now, when people talk about cloud, guess what? To your point, it has to run on something, software has to run on something. So, obviously the hardware. Now, to keep up with the changing tide and the needs, some of the recent things we have done, as an example, with our R840 launch yesterday, you know, NVMe is the talk of the town, too, talking about some of the new technologies. And customers want us to go out and provide a better way and a faster way for them to get access to the data in a much more faster way closer to the compute, so that's where the NVMe drives come in. We have got 24 NVMe drives on R840 today, which is two times more than the closest competitor. More into the R940xa; xa stands for extreme acceleration. Again, we have never had an xa product, this is the first of its kind that we are bringing out, and the beauty of this is, we wanted to makes sure there is a one to one relationship between the GPU and the CPU. So, for every CPU you have a GPU. It's a one to one relationship. If you look at the R940 we introduced earlier, it had, just to give the context to your question, John, it had, it could support four CPUs but only two GPUs. So if we are, think of it this way, if we are doubling the number of GPUs, and that's not it, we are actually enabling our customers to add up to eight FPGAs if they want. Nobody else does it, and this goes back to, I think Lisa, I think when we start to talk about FPGAs, too, and therein comes the issue, wherein customers don't have the flexibility in most of the cases in a lot of products out there. We have decided that flexibility has to be given to our customers because the changing, workload's changing, technologies, and even most customers today, they go in thinking that that's all they need, but sooner or later they realize that they need more than what they planned for. So our goal is to ensure that there is enough of scalability and headroom to enable that to happen. So that's how we, as PowerEdge Team, are building servers today, which actually enables us to provide our customers with an ability to have a headroom and at the same time give them the flexibility to change, whether it is NVMe drives or any kind of SSD drive, GPUs, FPGAs, so there's all the flexibility built into it along with ease of management. >> A couple things that you mention that I think are really important is that data doesn't have any value unless you're able to extract insights from it. >> Ravi: Yeah. >> Companies that are transforming digitally well are able to combine and recombine the same data using it as catalysts across many different applications within a business, that agility is key, that speed is key. >> Ravi: Yes. >> How are you, what are some of the things that you're hearing from the 14,000 plus people that I'm sure are all lined up to want to talk to you this week about what, for example, PowerEdge is going to enable them to do? You talked about flexibility, you talked about speed, what are some of the real applications that you're hearing feedback-wise from some of these new features that you've announced? >> Oh, great, so I think, again, an excellent question in terms of how the customers are reacting to and what are we doing. So now, talking about AI machine learning, think of it this way, right, the permutations and combinations are way too many. And the reason I say that is, keeping the hardware aside, when you talk about frameworks that are available today for most of the AI or machine learnings applications, people talk about TensorFlow, people talk about Caffe2, people talk about CNTK, I mean, there's a whole plethora of frameworks. And then there are different neural network methodologies, right? You hear of DNN, deep neural network, right? And then you hear of things called RNN, there is something called CNN, my point is, there is so many permutations and combinations in the mix that what our customers have come back and told us, going back to where we were earlier, talking about the flexibility in the architecture that we are providing, where we provide seamless scalability on any of the vectors, that they actually love that we are giving them the flexibility because when there are so many software options with frameworks and every other methodology, we wanted to make sure that we also provided the flexibility and the scalability. And our scalability comes in, whether it is the I/O connectability, we talked about PowerEdge MX that's going to be coming up soon that was a preview, but that's where we talked about something called the kinetic infrastructure, which essentially enables our customers to go out and run multiple workloads on the same modular infrastructure. Never happened before, right? Or, you know, the seamless way we do it now is a lot better than anything else. Likewise, to go back into the R940xa. We have the ability to go out and support hard drives, SSDs, FPGAs, GPUs, so the feedback has been that our customers are really excited about the fact that we're giving them the flexibility and agility to go out and match to the needs of their different workloads and the different options they have. So, they love it. >> Ravi, I was talking to some of your team yesterday and I was really impressed as they talked about the product development cycle. They said that we start with the customers and we start with applications. >> Ravi: Yes. >> And then we figure out what technologies are now appropriate to build in what combinations. They don't just start from let's throw the newest thing in because we can. As you talk to CIOs and enterprise architects, it used to be if you just do a server refresh and just check the box and push the button, now you've got to look at cloud readiness and what I keep on prim and what I keep off prim and what's going to fit my applications. What are you hearing from customers and how are you trying to educate them on how to approach their next refresh, well, I think even refresh is probably a bad frame, their next set of applications that they're going to have to build in this digital transformation? >> You know, John, this is actually no different, I mean let's step aside from the compute world for a minute, let's pick up an automobile industry, right? If you get into the automobile industry, a family might say they need a sedan, or a family of five or six with young kids might say they want a minivan, right? And maybe now the kids are grown up or you're still in your 20s or 30s and some of the folks would love to have a sports car, like the McLaren that up >> I'll take that one! >> Ravi: On the stage with Jeff; I know, I would love that too, right? (Lisa laughing) So my point is, when people are trying to decide on what is it they really want to buy, they actually know what they're looking for, right? A family of four doesn't go in and say, "I need a two-seat car," for example. It's a similar thing here, as people start looking at the workload first, they come in and start looking at mapping, "Hey, this is the kind of workload we have now," now let's start looking at what infrastructure can we provide behind it? You know, even if you look at our, something that we have announced in the past, but the 740xd. So, we have a 740 version and 740xd version; xd there stands for extreme density. So, if customers want a 2-CPU box, a 2-U box, a server, but they want more storage, then they have xd version. But they decide that storage is not really crucial, they just need the compute, then we provide the 740 on its own, the R740. So my point being that, accentuating the point you raised, is it's always nice to look at the application, look at what its needs are, whether it's memory, whether it's storage, whether it's the GPUs, the CPUs, and then look at how it transposes itself over the next few years because you really don't want to acquire something and then really decide later that you've run out of room. It's like buying a home and then you know you're going to have your kids or you're going to raise a family, you don't probably want to start off with a single bedroom and you know you're going to have a family in a couple of years. My point again being that, that is where the planning becomes absolutely important. So we are planning, and the planning phase is crucial because once you have that right, you now can rest at ease for the next few years and as we do that, one of the other fundamental design principles of PowerEdge is that we want to really support the platforms for multiple generations. Case in point, when we came out with our PowerEdge m1000e, we said that we will guarantee support for three generations of processors. We actually are up to the fifth generation as we speak right now. And our customers love it, because nobody really wants to go ahead and buy more servers every few years if they can go back with their investment they have made and ensure that there is room to grow. So, to your point, absolutely the right spot to start is start looking at the workload, start looking, once you have pegged it, then start looking at really at growing and what your needs could be. And then start connecting the dots and I think you would be coming out with the better outcome for the long run. >> We had the opportunity to talk, John and I just an hour or two ago, with the CIO, with Bask Iyer, and one of the things that was interesting is we talked to him about how the role of the CIO is changing to be really part of corporate strategy, >> Ravi: Yeah. >> And business strategy; as you talk with customers about building this infrastructure, to set them up for the flexibility and the agility that they need, allowing them to make the right decisions for what they need but also scale it over time, how much are you seeing the boots on the street that you're talking to have to sell this up the stack as this is fundamental to transforming IT, which is fundamental to transforming our business into a digital business? >> Very, very true. By the way, Bask is a great friend and a collaborator, we certainly look to, as the saying goes, "Eat your own dog food." So we work with Bask and team very closely because, as a CIO for a large corporation himself, we learn a lot; there's nothing better than trying to walk in the shoes of our customers so, going back to the comment you made, Lisa, is most of the, by the way, most of the customers today, the CIOs, who are now becoming not cost centers, they're becoming profit centers >> Profit centers, >> Lisa: That's what Michael Dell said on Monday. >> Absolutely, and he's absolutely right, Michael is absolutely right because most of the organizations we speak to today on an average, I would think that the number of CIOs we talk to has probably been dialed up, because we see the kind of questions that they're being asked of, right, to the point that we're making earlier, they're not looking at making point purchases for something that will satisfy them for the next 12 months or 18 months. They're looking at the next horizon, they're looking at a long-term strategy, and then they're looking back at the ROI. So what is it I'm able to go back in and provide to my customers internally, whether it is in terms of the number of users or the performance, whatever the SLAs, the Service Level Agreements may be internally, that's what they're looking for. So, towards that end, the whole concept of ROI and TCO, the total cost of ownership and the return of investment nowadays is probably a much bigger talking point that we need to support with the right factoids. I think that's becoming crucial, and the CIOs are getting more engaged in the discussions than ever in the past, and so it's just not about feeds and speeds, which I guess anyone can look at spec sheets, not as exciting, but at things beyond that that I think are getting more crucial. >> Well, Bask said, "Drinking your own champagne, eating your own dog food." I like champagne and dogs, although I'll go with both. >> I, why not. I just... >> We've got the therapy dogs next door. >> Therapy dogs, exactly. >> Lisa: Isn't that fantastic? >> They're great, they're great. >> So, last question in the last 30 seconds or so, biggest event, 14,000 as I said, expected live over the last three days, and tens of thousands more engaging, any one thing really stand out to you at this inaugural Dell Technologies World? >> The most important thing that has stuck for me is that human progress is indeed possible through technology. And this is the best showcase possible, and when you can enable human progress, which cuts across boundaries of nationality, and boundaries of any other kind, I think we are in the winning streak. >> Well said. Ravi, thanks so much for coming back today, couple times in hanging out with us on theCUBE and sharing some of the insights that you're seeing and that you're enabling your customers to achieve. >> Thank you, Lisa; thank you, John, it's been awesome. It's always wonderful being with you guys, so thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE again. Lisa Martin with John Troyer live, day three of Dell Technologies World. Stick around, we'll be right back after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the Sands! We continue here live on theCUBE, our coverage here of Dell Technologies World 2018. 14,000 attendees wrapping up day 3. We are live as I said with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls, and it is now our pleasure to welcome to the set Steve Fingerhut, who is the SVP and GM of SSD and Cloud Software Business Units at Toshiba Memory Americas. Steve, good to see you, sir. >> Great to be here. >> And Ravi Pendekanti, who is the SVP of Server Solutions Product Management and Marketing at Dell. >> Thank you, John. >> Ravi, good to see you, sir. >> Same here, sir. >> Yeah, let's talk about, first off, show theme. Make it real, right? Digital transformation, but make it real. >> Ravi: Yup. >> So, what does it mean to the two of you? We've heard that theme over and over again, and what do you think that means to your customers as well? How do you make it real for them? >> First and foremost, I think the whole idea of new workloads come in play. People talk about machine learning and deep learning as you, I'm sure, are aware of. People talk about analytics. The fact is, each of us is collecting a lot more data than a year ago. Which is good for my friend Steve and others, and obviously, we like the fact that customers are looking at making more real-time, if not near real-time, analysis. And the whole notion of governmental agencies across the world trying to go into more of a digital world where if you look at a country like India, for example, I mean, they have a billion people who are looking at other cards where they didn't have a form of identification for each individuals. Now if they're gone through a new transformation phase where they want to ensure that every single one of them actually has a way of identification, and it's all done digitally with accounts and everything else that goes on, this is just some of the manifestations of the digital transformation we see, whether it is in your industries, pick your favorite one, whether it's financial sector, the manufacturing, health care, all the way to governmental agencies. I think each of them are looking at how do they look at providing rights out of services. Either for their customers or their communities at large, and, you know, we can't be more excited about what this provides an opportunity for us to go back and provide a way for them to communicate and do some cool takes. >> Steve? >> Yeah, Ravi, you mentioned the workloads that are driving the new campaign or that you're highlighting in the new campaign Make It Real, and, many of those workloads are, they're new architectures, and they were basically built from day one on SSDs, right? Counting on that performance, reliability, etc. And so obviously, that's what we're here to promote at the show. And you can see the new workloads, obviously anything Cloud very much counts on SSDs and Flash. And then as you get into machine learning, different types of artificial intelligence, those are certainly counting on the performance of SSDs. And keep nothing more real than actual products in hands so with Ravi's products and ours, we have a number of demo's, including the new AMD platforms that the Power Edge team is rolling out, running all of these new workloads on Toshiba SSDs. So it's a good way to make it real. >> Yeah, Steve, maybe bring us in a little bit kind of the state of storage, though. We have talked about SSDs, and we're now a decent way into it. Dell's announcement talking a lot about NVMe. Maybe give us the Toshiba viewpoint on memory and storage and some of those transitions we're going through. >> Right, well, I guess the secret's out that SSDs are a great addition. Right? You take pretty much any environment, and you add SSDs, and it will go faster. So it's pretty much the biggest bang for the buck in terms of incremental performance. So what that means is just tremendous growth. And the last couple years have been, really for the industry, keeping up with that really increased demand. So there's inherent efficiencies in the SSDs. We're trying to build as many as we can, and then obviously trying to help our customers use them in the most efficient ways possible. >> Yeah, I agree with Steve. I mean, it is an efficiency equation. The fact of the matter is, you really do need to provide customers with a better way of ensuring that timely information is made available. Again, it's information, and it has to be timely. Because if you really don't provide it at a time when our customers need it, there's really no advantage of being really, having right infrastructure, right? Or lack of it, for that matter. Case in point, if you look at what we just announced, Stu. Yesterday, we had talked about the R840, for example, which is a 4-socket server. And we actually announced it with 44 NVMe drives, believe it or not. That's about two times more than the nearest competitor that just gives you an idea into the amount of data that customers are consuming on the applications, obviously. And more importantly, when we were coming up with this notion, we felt that 12 was probably a good number. Maybe 24 was going to be a stretch. And the number of customers we have talked to even in the last two days, I mean it's been huge. We're hearing them saying, "Wow, we can't wait "to go get this product in our hands." Because that really shows you that there is already a pretty big demand for these kinds of technologies to be brought in. >> Yeah, I like what you were saying there, Ravi, because I'd like both of you to help connect the dots for us a little bit. 'Cause when I think back to, okay, what speed disc did I have? Or was the flash piece in? This was something that, it was traditionally the server admin. Maybe there was some application person that came in. But you're talking about C-level discussions here. The trends that Jeff Clark talked about in his keynote as to, you know, this is what the business is driving things, like AINML and some of those. Steve, how are the conversations changing to get this piece of the infrastructure up at more of the C-level discussion? >> Right, it certainly is part of the transformation where it's been talked about several times this week. IT has moved from being a cost center to the revenue center and then that puts it on the CEO's radar much more squarely. You definitely want to, if you're the CIO, CTO, infrastructure leader, your goal is to try to deliver that agility, right? Don't stand in the way of revenue, while managing security, managing cost. And it's those dynamics and, you know, it's not a new conversation, but it's the public versus private hybrid. What exactly should go where? And those are still top-of-mind for all the customers we're talking to. >> Actually, Steve hit on something else, if I may, which is about security. And I can't tell you, Stu, a good 70% of the customers on average today, do not finish a conversation in the 30-minute chunks we have had without talking about what is it you guys are going to do for security. And that's a huge number or an increase from where we were just even a year or two ago. And imagine having said that, if you really had a longer conversation, security obviously is one of those fundamental pillars that everybody comes down to. Because everybody's worried about data, and the fact that there's leakage of information, if I may, pertaining to this. And more importantly, you know, making it real, if I may, to your point earlier on, Jon, as well. Which is, customers don't want to look at just the buzz words. They're now asking for proof points. Proof points on, "Hey, what does this really mean "in terms of security?" For example, when we talk about zero arrays or, you know, secure arrays, sorry, which is, how do you go retire an old data server or a box without necessarily worrying about the bits and bytes being left on the disc drives? So we have come up with new technologies which enables all the drives to be wiped. Makes it a lot easier, of course, with some of the stuff we do with Toshiba, and some of their technologies as well. But my point, again, being that I think now, our C-level execs are coming in asking us for, not just the major teams, but they're actually more interested in finding out how and what is it we're doing to help some of those major teams. And I think the number of requests we have had for some of the white papers we have come out with, Steve, I think has only grown up now. >> Absolutely. >> Which, I don't think was happening in the past from the C-level execs. So it's absolutely a valid statement. >> Yeah, well, there were Senate hearings last year and some pretty famous data breaches, and you have senators grilling CEO's, and it was shocking. They actually used, there was a senator who used the term, full disc encryption, and taking a CEO to task for not using full disc encryption and so I think that might help, talking about getting on the C-level radar. That helps. >> That was good staff work there. >> Exactly, exactly. That was a good plant. >> Yeah, right. But to the point of security. Obviously with this exponential growth of data, unstructured, blowing up, and then all of a sudden, you become a lot riper, if you will, and you've got a lot more to manage. And so with that, how much more at risk are people, and is that what's raising the awareness now in the C-sweep? Is they realize that they're a much bigger target now than maybe when data wasn't as plentiful you know, back in the old days, if you will. Is that part of this? Or is that it? >> I believe that's a big part of it. And, one of the other things that's obviously going with this is, if you really look at the disclosures that any of us have to go through, even in terms of whether it's a simple credit card you're looking at. I don't know if you've ever seen those. As we were doing some of the analysis, we noticed. You want a simple credit card application, we'd had some security, and, you know, personal information clauses is actually garnered by about 120% in terms of the number of things they ask for. And making sure that the consumer is aware as well. Right? I don't think that happened before. And the fact of the matter is, I don't think there's a single day that we can go through any of the trade press without somebody coming out with a security breach maybe, or a security feature, whether it's hardware or software. And I think there's a whole security encryption device or drives, I think there's a huge demand for that as well, right? >> Absolutely. And you talk about the data growth. It's obviously been phenomenal. In his keynote Monday, Michael Dell talked about the data growth from machine to machine, and it's going to make this look like a little bit of data. So like you said, just that risk, the exposure is much larger, and you have to keep that data secure. So as Ravi mentioned, we work closely with Dell. There's a lot of, it's not an easy problem to solve, right? So there's a lot of engineering to make sure that you have that end-to-end security, and that's why we work with things like the instant system erase, right? So you can, one button, erase the system in minutes, versus in the past, it might take hours and days. And do you really trust that it's gone? Those types of things, so I think that those are enabling a much more robust security, and you basically have to make it easy, right? >> Letting people sleep at night. >> Exactly. >> That's what you're doing. >> It's interesting. In the past, the only way you could do that was you had to write a series of 0's and 1's on their driver. And that would take, you know, hours together. That's how you would erase your data, right? I love when you talk about autonomous vehicles. Imagine there's a whole big, a whole discussion as much as how do you make sure that you have the, that's kind of an edge computing as Jeff, I think, mentioned on stage yesterday. That you want to not have latency come in between making a deterministic turn, right? Or an object appears. You don't want to wait for the breaking system to play because some decision needs to be made in a remote center. Right? Which essentially means now you have got data being collected and analyzed and acted upon. And there are things like that, and you've probably heard of all the insurance companies are working on, you know, what kind of data can we collect it, because when crashes happen, right? How do you make sure that, you know, there are privacy laws in place and what-not, who has access to it, plenty of stuff. >> John: Sure. >> Steve, want to get your viewpoint. We're getting not far from the end of the show. Why don't you give, in general, the partner viewpoint of Dell technology's world in, specifically Toshiba. I know you've got, there's the booze, there's the party, there's demos, there's labs, so a lot of activity your team's doing, for those that haven't been here. And, you know, Toshiba's worked with both Legacy Dell, Legacy MC. Any commentary to close on that coming together? >> Right. I think last year, I used the Jordan/Pippen analogy, but it's only gotten better since then. So it's a great partnership. We're definitely growing strong together, and like you said, that doesn't happen overnight. That's years of hard work and trust that makes that a possibility. But I truly believe we're only getting started. And you know, one of our goals we're working together is how do we make these important capabilities like security more common, more accessible, lower cost, those types of things. So that's a major factor, major focus area for us going forward. But definitely see this is just the beginning. >> Any key highlight from the show or activities that your team's been doing here that you'd like to leave us with? >> Sure. Yeah, we have a significant presence here. We have eight server demos running. I mentioned the AMD servers, multiple workloads across these new emerging workloads. And then the hands-on demo zone. Where actually, the developers can use the systems and software they want to evaluate. They can use them in the Cloud. Those are all being driven by Toshiba, and of course, as part of the Dell Solution. Yeah, we're happy. Honored to be a big part of the show this year. >> Jordan/Pippen, I was thinking more like Curry/Durant. That's where I was going with that. >> Exactly. That might be a little more up-to-date, right? >> I'm good with Jordan. No, he wasn't bad. Pretty good pair like you two are. Thanks for joining us both. We appreciate it, Ravi, Steve. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good seeing you here. Back with more of a continue, our live coverage here on theCUBE where Dell Technologies World 2018, and we are in Las Vegas.

>> Narrator: From Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE. Covering Super Computing '17, brought to you by Intel. Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Super Computing 2017, Denver, Colorado, 12,000 people talking about big iron, big questions, big challenges. It's really an interesting take on computing, really out on the edge. The key note was, literally, light years out in space, talking about predicting the future with quirks and all kinds of things, a little over my head for sure. But we're excited to kind of get back to the ground and we have Ravi Pendekanti. He's the Senior Vice President of Product Management and Marketing, Server Platforms, Dell EMC. It's a mouthful, Ravi great to see you. Great to see you too Jeff and thanks for having me here. Absolutely, so we were talking before we turned the cameras on. One of your big themes, which I love, is kind of democratizing this whole concept of high performance computing, so it's not just the academics answering the really, really, really big questions. You're absolutely right. I mean think about it Jeff, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago, when people talk about high performance computing, it was what I call as being in the back alleys of research and development. There were a few research scientists working on it, but we're at a time in our journey towards helping humanity in a bigger way. The HPC has found it's way into almost every single mainstream industry you can think of. Whether it is fraud detection, you see MasterCard is using it for ensuring that they can see and detect any of the fraud that can be committed earlier than the perpetrators come in and actually hack the system. Or if you get into life sciences, if you talk about genomics. I mean this is what might be good for our next set of generations, where they can probably go out and tweak some of the things in a genome sequence so that we don't have the same issues that we have had in the past. Right. Right? So, likewise, you can pick any favorite industry. I mean we are coming up to the holiday seasons soon. I know a lot of our customers are looking at how do they come up with the right schema to ensure that they can stock the right product and ensure that it is available for everyone at the right time? 'Cause timing is important. I don't think any kid wants to go with no toy and have the product ship later. So bottom line is, yes, we are looking at ensuring the HPC reaches every single industry you can think of. So how do you guys parse HPC verses a really big virtualized cluster? I mean there's so many ways that compute and store has evolved, right? So now, with cloud and virtual cloud and private cloud and virtualization, you know, I can pull quite a bit of horsepower together to attack a problem. So how do you kind of cut the line between Navigate, yeah. big, big compute, verses true HPC? HPC. It's interesting you ask. I'm actually glad you asked because people think that it's just feeding CPU or additional CPU will do the trick, it doesn't. The simple fact is, if you look at the amount of data that is being created. I'll give you a simple example. I mean, we are talking to one of the airlines right now, and they're interested in capturing all the data that comes through their flights. And one of the things they're doing is capturing all the data from their engines. 'Cause end of the day, you want to make sure that your engines are pristine as they're flying. And every hour that an engine flies out, I mean as an airplane flies out, it creates about 20 terabytes of data. So, if you have a dual engine, which is what most flights are. In one hour they create about 40 terabytes of data. And there are supposedly about 38,000 flights taking off at any given time around the world. I mean, it's one huge data collection problem. Right? I mean, I'm told it's like a real Godzilla number, so I'll let you do the computation. My point is if you really look at the data, data has no value, right? What really is important is getting information out of it. The CPU on the other side has gone to a time and a phase where it is hitting the, what I call as the threshold of the Moore's law. Moore's law was all about performance doubles every two years. But today, that performance is not sufficient. Which is where auxiliary technologies need to be brought in. This is where the GPUs, the FBGAs. Right, right. Right. So when you think about these, that's where the HPC world takes off, is you're augmenting your CPUs and your processors with additional auxiliary technology such as the GPUs and FBGAs to ensure that you have more juice to go do this kind of analytics and the massive amounts of data that you and I and the rest of the humanity is creating. It's funny that you talk about that. We were just at a Western Digital event a little while ago, talking about the next generation of drives and it was the same thing where now it's this energy assist method to change really the molecular way that it saves information to get more out of it. So that's kind of how you parse it. If you've got to juice the CPU, and kind of juice the traditional standard architecture, then you're moving into the realm of high performance computing. Absolutely, I mean this is why, Jeff, yesterday we launched a new PowerEdge C4140, right? The first of it's kind in terms of the fact that it's got two Intel Xeon processors, but beyond that, it also can support four Nvidia GPUs. So now you're looking at a server that's got both the CPUs, to your earlier comment on processors, but is augmented by four of the GPUs, that gives immense capacity to do this kind of high performance computing. But as you said, it's not just compute, it's store, it's networking, it's services, and then hopefully you package something together in a solution so I don't have to build the whole thing from scratch, you guys are making moves, right? Oh, this is a perfect lead in, perfect lead in. I know, my colleague, Armagon will be talking to you guys shortly. What his team does, is it takes all the building blocks we provide, such as the servers, obviously looks at the networking, the storage elements, and then puts them together to create what are called solutions. So if you've got solutions, which enable our customers to go back in and easily deploy a machine-learning or a deep-learning solution. Where now our customers don't have to do what I call as the heavy lift. In trying to make sure that they understand how the different pieces integrate together. So the goal behind what we are doing at Dell EMC is to remove the guess work out so that our customers and partners can go out and spend their time deploying the solution. Whether it is for machine learning, deep learning or pick your favorite industry, we can also verticalize it. So that's the beauty of what we are doing at Dell EMC. So the other thing we were talking about before we turned turned the cameras on is, I call them the itys from my old Intel days, reliability, sustainability, serviceability, and you had a different phrase for it. >> Ravi: Oh yes, I know you're talking about the RAS. The RAS, right. Which is the reliability, availability, and serviceability. >> Jeff: But you've got a new twist on it. Oh we do. Adding something very important, and we were just at a security show early this week, CyberConnect, and security now cuts through everything. Because it's no longer a walled garden, 'cause there are no walls. There are no walls. It's really got to be baked in every layer of the solution. Absolutely right. The reason is, if you really look at security, it's not about, you know till a few years ago, people used to think it's all about protecting yourself from external forces, but today we know that 40% of the hacks happen because of the internal, you know, system processes that we don't have in place. Or we could have a person with an intent to break in for whatever reason, so the integrated security becomes part and parcel of what we do. This is where, with in part of a 14G family, one of the things we said is we need to have integrated security built in. And along with that, we want to have the scalability because no two workloads are the same and we all know that the amount of data that's being created today is twice what it was the last year for each of us. Forget about everything else we are collecting. So when you think about it, we need integrated security. We need to have the scalability feature set, also we want to make sure there is automation built in. These three main tenets that we talked about feed into what we call internally, the monic of a user's PARIS. And that's what I think, Jeff, to our earlier conversation, PARIS is all about, P is for best price performance. Anybody can choose to get the right performance or the best performance, but you don't want to shell out a ton of dollars. Likewise, you don't want to pay minimal dollars and try and get the best performance, that's not going to happen. I think there's a healthy balance between price performance, that's important. Availability is important. Interoperability, as much as everybody thinks that they can act on their own, it's nearly impossible, or it's impossible that you can do it on your own. >> Jeff: These are big customers, they've got a lot of systems. You are. You need to have an ecosystem of partners and technologies that come together and then, end of the day, you have to go out and have availability and serviceability, or security, to your point, security is important. So PARIS is about price performance, availability, interoperability, reliability, availability and security. I like it. That's the way we design it. It's much sexier than that. We drop in, like an Eiffel Tower picture right now. There you go, you should. So Ravi, hard to believe we're at the end of 2017, if we get together a year from now at Super Computing 2018, what are some of your goals, what are your some objectives for 2018? What are we going to be talking about a year from today? Oh, well looking into a crystal ball, as much as I can look into that, I thin that-- >> Jeff: As much as you can disclose. And as much as we can disclose, a few things I think are going to happen. >> Jeff: Okay. Number one, I think you will see people talk about to where we started this conversation. HPC has become mainstream, we talked about it, but the adoption of high performance computing, in my personal belief, is not still at a level that it needs to be. So, if you go down next 12 to 18 months, lets say, I do think the adoption rates will be much higher than where we are. And we talk about security now, because it's a very topical subject, but as much as we are trying to emphasize to our partners and customers that you've got to think about security from ground zero. We still see a number of customers who are not ready. You know, some of the analysis show there are nearly 40% of the CIOs are not ready in helping and they truly understand, I should say, what it takes to have a secure system and a secure infrastructure. It's my humble belief that people will pay attention to it and move the needle on it. And we talked about, you know, four GPUs in our C4140, do anticipate that there will be a lot more of auxiliary technology packed into it. Sure, sure. So that's essentially what I can say without spilling the beans too much. Okay, all right, super. Ravi, thanks for taking a couple of minutes out of your day, appreciate it. = Thank you. All right, he's Ravi, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE from Super Computing 2017 in Denver, Colorado. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's the Cube covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live at Dell EMC World 2017. This is Cube's coverage of Dell EMC, the combination, the big news here. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE and my co-host Paul Gillin. And our next guest is Steve Fingerhut, senior vice president and general manager of storage product business unit at Toshiba and Ravi Pendekanti, ex-VP of service solutions and product management at Dell EMC. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Good to see you, Ravi. Steve nice to meet you. >> Thanks for having us. >> Steve, so tell us what's going on at Toshiba, 'cause I want to hear what you guys are doing and your role in the relationship with Dell EMC. And what is going on with your architecture because we've been hearing a ton about IoT of the edge, centralized pushing the intelligence to the edge, new architectures. The world is kind of moving to a new architecture. What's your pitch? >> Sure. Well Dell and Toshiba have a long history 20 plus years of working and both strong innovators. We're engaged both in our hard drive products as well as our SSD products, really across every aspect of Dell's portfolio, client server and storage. And we're really taking the architecture, both of those product categories are really popular as everyone, data explosion is happening. A lot of that is ending up on storage and our focus areas on hard drive are around the near line storage which are the high capacity eight terabyte and higher, really popular with the cloud architectures. We have a 14 and 16 terabyte helium-based drive coming out next year, which will put us in a strong leadership position. And then on the SSD side what we're highlighting at the show today is our latest generation NAND. And we've moved into 3-D NAND and we're showing our wafer with 64-layer, 3-D flash as well as the first public demonstration of any company of an SSD using that 64-layer, 3-D flash. So we're on that cutting edge and we see that really growing. And you mentioned IoT, that's really driving a lot of the big data growth. A lot of that data will reside on hard drives, right, for the long-term storage, but then you bring that into an SSD tier for the very rapid analytics work that you want to do to make decisions with that data. >> Steve, talk about the impact of the latest state-of-the-art, because to me it's, oh my God, it's speeds and feeds but storage, people always care about storage. Go back to the original iPod, then iPhone, things are in devices, you mentioned IoT, state-of-the-art has to get better, faster, cheaper. What's the impact to some of those specs that you guys just released in terms of the media, the SSD? What's the impact going to be for customers? Scenario-wise, what's some of the the impact going to look like? >> Sure, I think the number one impact as I talk to customers here at the event and it's no surprise but-- >> Give me more of that they say. (laughs) >> Every customer, every Dell executive says we need more. So really it's just the SSD adaption >> Ravi: Yes we do need more. >> Exactly, so that's exploding. So the number one thing this will do is it's the, each individual die on the wafer doubles in capacity and will soon double again and double again after that. So this 3-D technology really allows us to drive density. And that means lower cost, it means more capacity. It also means we can develop denser SSD. So more in the same space or smaller space. >> For the consumer it's obvious, it's all the devices, the wearables, but the business is really more fundamental than that, things that are going to be connected to the network, the microwave, the air conditioning, all the sensors in the world are going to be now digitally connected once analog, now digital. I mean, that's kind of where, does that kind of get that right? >> Absolutely, and those are, that same technology will be used in a a lot of end devices. It's in your smart phone, it's in your smart watch. It'll be in a lot of those smart devices capturing the temporary data. But then that all gets consolidated in a massive pool and companies are looking for how do they efficiently scale to capture and analyze that data and turn it into revenue and profit. And that's where the performance of SSDs and in the future the higher capacity levels will all efficient scaling at the data center. >> Ravi, in the hyper diverge market, now all the sudden you've got the storage coming back into the server-- >> Ravi: Yep. >> What are customers looking for in terms of performance on the storage side? Are they driving you for the same kind of constant drive for more capacity and better performance? >> Absolutely, Paul, I mean if you think about it the workloads of today are vastly different than the workloads of the past. Think about it. Today people are not looking for data to be just collected. It doesn't have the complete value or in my view it doesn't give you anything other than just lots of bits and bytes. What really gives you the power to act upon is information and so to create information you need to take the data, go process it and get you to the same, to the level of detail you can act upon right? So that's the analytic extension. So having said that, today when you look at any of the industries, whether it's genomics, whether you're looking at mission learning, deep learning, these require a sense of performance to be provided for our customers because they are looking at analyzing data quickly enough. That's when they can act on it. So our customers are absolutely asking for better performance and higher capacity and they need it now. >> So Toshiba's not a new player to you though, they've been a supplier to the Power Edge, right? >> Oh, absolutely true. They've been a fantastic supplier for the last 20 years. We look at them more as a partner. They've been with us through the journey. We've been, if you think about it, for the last couple of decades we've been shipping your product and they've been working through us. We've been working together, just not as, it's not just a supplier kind of relationship. We actually track their new technologies. Steve just talked about 3-D cross point and things of that kind. We are working on those technologies together to ensure that we give our customers just not the latest technology but also to to provide them with the right price performance. Again, I emphasize price performance because it's just not one of them on it's own that has merit to our customers. >> Is brand important to your customers in terms of a storage provider? Do they ask for Toshiba brand? Or does it matter? >> What they do ask for is they ask for reliability. Right, they want to make sure that they have a reliable product. And then if you think about it that really translates to them to certain vendors. So yeah, they could have a potential propensity for a certain vendor. But it all starts with reliability. If you really can't have a reliable component in the service that we sell, it really doesn't help our customers. And that's where, it goes back to the point I was making earlier, which is this long-standing relationship with the companies because we have built that reliable product that Toshiba's been providing for us. >> Steve, tell us about the relationship with SSD and the enterprise? Everybody knows people want more solid state, that's, everyone kind of sees the consumer product. Where's the progress bar in terms of adoption because we, I hear stories and we actually report them on SiliconANGLE, I'm buying capacity, I'm all flash drives. Server certainly has their share of flash as well. David Foyer and Wendy Bond have been covering that for years but now in the Enterprise and all the other mainstream products, where's the analogy here, what's the tipping point? Are we there or? >> Well, if you look at if from a dollars spent perspective, actually this year is the crossover where Enterprise's SSDs will consume a higher amount of the spin than Enterprise hard drives. So people are putting their money-- >> Spinning disc, you mean. >> Exactly. >> The old hard drive. >> And so that crossover will happen, has happened, if we had more supply, if the industry had more supply I'm sure it would have already happened. And now if you look at it from a gigabytes perspective of course hard drives are much, much, are still the vast majority of the bits shipped. And so, it really is about data, intelligent use of flash. It's fast, it's very reliable, it consumes less power but it is also more expensive, so you have to pick the right applications and the right ways of deploying those. And that's were Dell and Toshiba work together with partners like VMware. We're talking about a certified solution around Toshiba Dell, VMware V stand, as well as Nutanix. And both of those solutions in a converged architecture and hyper-converged architecture, they rely on SSDs in every mode to ensure you get the performance scaling. >> The SSD has been exciting because sort of hard disc performance peaked out about 10 years ago, and we've been jerry-rigging ways to make it faster but SSDs genuinely are getting faster and faster. What is the upper limit on speed right now? Are we looking at Moore's law type of growth in performance or does that top out at some point? >> We can, we get to saturating the interface with performance but I'll tell you the most customers aren't asking us for more IOPS performance or more bandwidth, certainly they'll take it but when you put several of these in a server or storage box, it's more than the interface can consume. So certainly there's been, if you look at the bi-segment type of growth rates, it's moving into how cheap can we make it, can we reduce the endurance. It's still plenty fast and kind of opening that up. That's a growing tier. And so we're really seeing that kind of good enough performance driving a lot of the expansion. >> Ravi, how about the architectural challenges? I was joking with Dave Vallant, a couple Cube things ago about Dell, oh Dell, their supply chain was their big innovation and everyone kind of knows that story of how they, I said data is the new supply chain. Data is now coming in and you got the form factor on storage memory, which everyone wants more SSD, give me more, we heard that. How are you guys going to build your server architecture to handle the tsunami of data coming in from stuff that this is going to enable. I mean, everything in the business will be instrumented with data. >> Absolutely. >> Devices and sensors are coming in. >> Yep. >> Is there a server for that and how do you >> Steve: It's called streaming. >> It's a moving train architecturally. >> Ravi: Yes it is. >> So what do you guys doing, give us an overview. >> It's interesting that you ask, John, because when you look at a server today it does have to deal with lots of data coming in. And it's just not data but if you look at it, there are, we used to talk about storage tiering, now I think we got to start looking at memory tiering. And what this means is we have to fundamentally change the way the architecture of the system is put in place and for example in 14G, we are now coming out with more of our important talent sets. It's all about scalable business architecture. Again, this goes into the whole premise of, we talk about work loads, as work loads change, you talk about IoT, you talked about how all the data is coming in, you got to synthesize it. You also need to have an architecture that essentially says I have to go get this data in. I get it the right time. It's not just getting data in. So we are working on things called MCA, which is memory centered architectures. 'Cause at the end of the day, it's analogous to, and I'm from California, we have in the Bay area, we have the 101, that kind of is the nerve of the entire Bay area. >> John: It's crowded, we need more. >> It's crowded. >> We need flying cars. >> A lot of bottlenecks. >> Absolutely right. >> Io problems. (laughs) >> Absolutely right. >> Yeah, right. >> That's your IOPS. >> Elon Musk is going to figure this out. >> Yeah, that's the goal right. >> Flying cars. >> We on the service side are trying to do the same thing, which is as more data, like more cars are on the road, we now have to go to ensure that the connectivity between the memories of system, your storage subsystem, and the CPU actually comes out to be a low latency, high bandwidth kind of a solution, which is what goes back into what I call memory centered architectures. So that's essentially what we're working on, to ensure that we have an optimal performance at the application level because that's what customers need. >> Cool, well what is tiered memory and is that actually a thing now in the 14G server? >> So tiered memory is something that, I mean, we are setting the stage for the future, right? So we talk about tiered storage. Were are tier one, tier two, tier three storage. If data was not being utilized you basically took the data but it on the tapes for example, right? In the current generation, a lot of people use hard drives as a way of putting data out. So likewise in memory, I mean, if you really think about it you have the registers, you bought the L one cache, the L two cache, those caches. Then we are coming into all kinds of NVMe drives. So that's what I mean by kind of clearing the air to deal with. There is normal memory, you've got persistent memory, right? So those are the new memory-- >> By the way, stateless cloud native really and microservices use state and stateless apps and, you differentiate between the two and SSD is great for that. >> Yes, so this is where I was going back to your question, Paul, is that's the way I think we are in the early stages of how we evolve. So that's where you'll see we're going to support no persistent memory for example, when people look at SAP HANA, they won't have memory. It's basically in memory database. So these are the kind of things we are doing. So with 14G for example we are working on things like that. We'll have 14, I mean about 19X, more NVMe than we had in the prior generation. I wish I could give you more specifics but we will do as we get into the formal shipment of the product, but-- >> John: Shipment's in the summer, though right? This summer is what I heard? >> Summer. >> Summer time frame, a few months away. >> Yeah. >> Okay, talk about the relationship between you guys. Obviously you're partners, this is a significant component, I would worry about as a customer, availability concerns, allocation of products. Are we good, supply solid? I didn't mean to put you on the spot. >> No, absolutely. >> Let's put him on the spot, we need more. >> It's a great question. >> Get the checkbook out, I get a commission. >> You know it's a great teamwork. You think about like the great teams in history, the Jordan-Pippin, they worked together. >> John: Bird and McHale. >> Exactly, and they can anticipate each other's next steps and that's really how we're operating. Ravi mentioned that we've worked hard to make sure we have product alignment up and down and the next is Dell technologies has massive scale so aligning the supply chains is key and we've done that to make sure we have the right products in the right place for Dell's customers. But in terms of supply, yeah, it really is about getting to that next generation where we can double our capacity per wafer or even more in some cases. So that will really allow us to open the spigots and we think 2018 is going to be a-- >> And the impact to the customers, guys, just comment on the relationship, what's going to be the impact to your customers? >> So, first and foremost, jokes apart, we know about the constraints in the industry on SSD drives. So that's an industry-wide thing. So one of the things we've been doing with Toshiba is we have regular interlock meetings. We discuss where the demand is, and we help forecast where we are headed. We actually worked through the process. We do anticipate that something that Steve's team and our teams will be doing together. >> John: This is not new for Dell, this is their wheelhouse. >> It is, it is. But I will tell you, John, given the constraints we have in industry, I must say that in the last couple of quarters, we had to put a lot more emphasis on how we go deal with this because, going back to the prior comments that gentlemen made, there's such a demand for the SSDs right now, that I wish the supply and demand were not out of balance. But they are, right? We got to work through and try to ensure that we don't surprise them as partners so we don't come back and say "Hey, give us a truckload tomorrow." So that's something that we are actually finishing. >> And they're shaping your strategy too. They're an indicator to where you can go based upon the tech, the state-of the-art. >> Absolutely, this is were our call is. It's a constant feedback mechanism we have built. I mean they know the SSD drive market, the NAND flash technologies better than we do. Right, they do. And we understand the overall customer side and what impact is from the computer for example in our case. And now we go back in and try and see how we can do a better mechanism of shaping the demand and ensuring that the right product is available at the right time. >> Is a relief in sight with the shortages? >> I think it's going to be linked to those next generation technologies. As we ramp those and get them into production, the SSDs and into Dell EMC systems, then you will see the balance come back in the industry. >> Paul: A year, two years, less? >> That's, I think most people are saying it's going to last through this year. We're obviously working very hard to get the right products in the right place but I think most people are saying it'll last through this year, but we'll see. It's hard to predict. >> I think that's the consistent message we get is at least three to four quarters before things stabilize. >> Well, Ravi, congratulations on this scale. I think it's a huge advantage and certainly you've got some great supplier relationships with the scale. Congratulations to Steve on the state-of-the-art new stuff coming. More, faster, come on, bring it on. >> Absolutely. >> John: Internet of things is waiting. >> It is. That market is waiting for you guys. Congratulations, thanks for coming on Cube. We appreciate you sharing insights. >> Thank you, I mean, we couldn't have found a better partner as we announce our 14G and we are excited about it. Thank you for having us both, John and Paul. >> Great stuff. >> Thank you for having us. >> Bringing you state-of-the-art content here in the Cube but more importantly faster, memory, SSDs and the Enterprise taking over the hard disc drive certainly a ton of data, a tsunami of data coming in from all angles, IoT and the Enterprise and everywhere else. It's the Cube sharing hard data with you. Be right back with more live coverage. Stay with us. (upbeat electronic music)