>>Hey everyone, welcome to this Cube's special program series Women of the Cloud, brought to you by aws. I'm your host for the series, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to be joined by Patty Jordan, the VP of enabling processes and technology at Optimus. My next guest, Patty, welcome to the program. >>Hi Lisa. Thank you for having me. >>Tell me a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your role so the audience gets that understanding of exactly who you are. >>Sure thing. Hi, my name is Patty Jordan. As we mentioned, I am originally from Cameroon, Central Africa, but I was raised in the DC area. I'm called and what you call a bank brat. My father worked for an international organization, the the World Bank. Lived in, like I said, grew up in dc, moved to Austin, Texas about seven years ago. Been with Optum for the last nine years of my working career. And I've had multiple roles, but currently my role as is with the enabling technologies and processes, which means that I manage teams that support the platform of a lot of analytics products in Optum. >>Got it. All right. Bank Brett, that's a new one to me. I hadn't heard that. I love that you're a bank, Brit and proud of it. I can tell. Talk to me a little bit about your, the career path that you have navigated and what are some of your sort of tactical and also strategic recommendations for the audiences looking to grow their career in tech? >>So the interesting thing is, I did not start in tech. My background is as an economist. I have a bachelor's of economics from the women, from the College of Women, Mary. I also have a financial master's in public policy from American University. However, I did take some IT classes and as a kid I'm probably dating myself a little bit, but I programmed in dos, so I, I was always excited by it and I had internships as a programmer that helped me pay for my master's degree in when I graduated. I just felt like I was having fun and I was getting paid very well and I was able to pay off my graduate schools. So I just stayed with tech. >>Love that. But it sounds like you had that interest from when you were quite young and as a lot of us and end up in tech, we didn't start there originally. There's a lot of zigzaggy paths to get there. Sounds like you had that as well. What are some of your recommendations for people, either those that are in tech now or aren't who want to get into it and really expand and climb that ladder? >>So definitely, so one of the things to understand is tech could be many different things. Like one of the things could be programming, which I started doing and now dislike intensely. And then another thing could be like being in the business analyst in tech, getting the business requirements versus product management or even, you know, management. And what I would encourage people to do is really focus on what you feel happy doing, which for me is problem solving and collaborating and getting the right people together to solve very complex problems. And if you focus on that then you'll find your, your the role for you even in tech. >>I love that problem solving is such an important skill to be able to have and to cultivate regardless of the industry that you're in. But I'd love to know a little bit more about some of the successes that you've had helping organizations really navigate their cloud journeys, their migration to cloud as we've seen the last couple of years, a massive acceleration to the cloud that was really born outta the pandemic. Talk to me about some of the successes that you've been able to achieve. >>So the first, I guess most obvious thing is understanding the technology. What do you have at your disposal? What do you need for your team to succeed in the cloud or even OnPrem? But what I've learned most in the last four to five years with the projects that I work on, whether it was migrating from a host data center to one that we owned ourselves or migrating from that data center to AWS recently was you really need to get the business organization engaged. And that's not just getting the sponsorship and getting them this to write that check, but really helping them understand how this journey to the cloud is a combined journey between both organizations, right? And they will be able to be more successful as well with us going to the cloud with improved processing with revenue protection because we, there's more tools available with revenue expansion because now we can now expand faster address client needs faster. And you know, so there's various different aspects of going to cloud that are more than just we're using the coolest technology. >>You're a problem solver, has there. And one of the challenges with organizations and from a cloud migration standpoint that we often talk about is it's a cultural migration as well, which is really challenging to do for any type of organization regardless of industry. Do you have a favorite example where as a, as the problem solver, you came in and really helped the organization, the business side understand, be able to transform their cultural direction, understand why cloud migration can be such a facilitator of the business from the top line in a bottom line perspective. >>So from a bottom line perspective, I think the hardest thing for them to understand or what does not compute for them is you can't give them a set. This is what you're gonna cost in the cloud, right? Because the benefit of being in the cloud is being able to scale shrink, et cetera. So that's one hurdle that we're still fighting to be a hundred percent candid. But from a a top line perspective, what's what's been great is we've been able to ramp up more clients with the same, right? So we haven't had to go out and procure more servers, more storage, hire more staff because we're in the cloud and we've actually been able to scale our teams as well because we incorporated the DevOps functions and we do not need a team to manage a data center anymore. So that they absolutely understood, you know, savings ratified, but really just how do we get to market faster? How do we get to revenue faster and how do we get more revenue with the same pool of resources is something that they've really, really resonated with. >>Well, you're starting to speak their language so that to your point that resonates well, but there's so much productivity improvements, efficiencies to be gained by leveraging cloud computing that that really hit the bottom line of an organization that businesses, if you put it in the right way. And it sounds like as the problem solver you have, they understand the immense value and competitive advantage that cloud can bring to their organization and become sort of a ah, the blinders are off. I get it. >>Exactly. Exactly. You're just not trying to, to play with the latest toys, you are actually solving a business problem even before it happens. >>And that's the key solving business problems before they happen. Being able to predict and forecast is huge for businesses, especially as we've seen the last couple of years. Everybody racing to digital, to to pivot, to survive Now to be competitive. If they don't do that and embrace that emerging technology suite, there's a competitor that's right back here that if they're more culturally willing and able to, to be more agile, they're gonna take the place of a competing organization. So yeah, so it absolutely is a huge differentiator for organizations. And it sounds like you've had some great successes there in helping organizations really navigate the challenges, the cultural challenges, but the benefits of cloud computing. Yes. I do wanna talk to you a little bit about in your expertise, diversity is something that is talked about in every industry. We talk about it in tech all the time, there's still challenges there. What are, what's, what are your thoughts on diversity? What are you seeing and what are some of those challenges that are still sitting on the table? >>So I guess the first thing I would say is there's multiple facets to diversity, right? The first one we always lean to is gender and race, but there's also diversity of thought. And being in the healthcare industry is very important for us to have a diversity of thought and experiences so that we can target a lot of these health equity issues that are, you know, that, that are ongoing. So that's one thing that we've, we've been trying to do is making sure that I don't just have people that think like me on the team. And typically that also means not having people that look like me. So making sure that we have the right pipelines to hire for partnering with our, with some of our vendors. AWS for example, is a good one where they had avenues and they had non-profits that they worked with and they connected us with some of our staff augmentation people also did the same thing, really just expanding the scope of where we're looking for talent and, and that helps also bring that diversity of thought and the diversity of gender race into the, into the full >>It is. And it and, and there's also, there's so much data if we follow the data and of course in tech we're all about data. Every company these days, regardless of industry needs to be a data company. If we follow the data, we can see that organizations with, for example, females within the C-suite are far more profitable than those organizations that don't have that even that element of diversity. So the data is demonstrating there's tremendous business value, tremendous competitive advantage, faster time to market, more products and services that can be delivered if there is thought diversity among the entire organization, not just the C-suite. >>Exactly. And and since we have an impact on what is being delivered as an engineering organization, we also need that in engineering, right? One of the things that's very keen right now is machine language and ai. If we don't have the right models for example, then we either introduced bias or perpetuate by it. So we definitely need people on our teams as well that understand how these technologies work, how we can leverage 'em on our data sets so that we could run counter to this bias >>And countering that bias is incredibly important. Machine learning ai, so driven by data, the volumes of data, but the data needs to be as clean and and non-biased as possible. And that's a big challenge for organizations to undertake. Is there advice that you have for those folks watching who might be, I, I don't see me in this organization, I don't feel represented. How can I change that? >>Well, one would be to speak up, right? Even if you don't see you apply for the job, right? And one of the things that we're trying to address even in the DEI space is making sure that our job descriptions are not introducing any biases so that people will eliminate themselves immediately, right? But really just if you have the skill set and you feel like you can ramp up to the talent, then just apply for the job. Talk to somebody. You do have a network whether you realize it or not. So leverage that network. But really like there's this expression that my kid taught me saying, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take, right? So if you don't try, you're not gonna make it by default. If you do try, there's a chance to make it right. At the very least, you build a connection with someone who can potentially help you down the line. >>That is one of my absolute favorite sayings. You miss a hundred percent of the shots that you don't take. So encouraging people to raise their hand there, there are stats, data, speaking of data we've been talking about that, that demonstrate that women are far less likely to apply for jobs like on LinkedIn for example, unless they need 100% of the job requirements, which we all know are quite stringent and not necessary in a lot of cases. So I love your advice of just try raise your hand, ask the question. All the can say is no. And at the end of the day, what is that? It's a word but can also be directional and and really guiding for people on their journey to wherever that, if it's an engineering, cloud, engineering, DevOps, whatever happen that happens to be, raise your hand the question. And to your point, you have a network, it is there, open that up. There's so much potential for people that just raise, I think that's to raise their hand and ask the question. >>And the corollary to that though is I would also encourage people who are in leader leadership roles to be strong allies, right? Like we need to be aware of what biases we might be introducing or candidates that we might be leaving on the table because we're being too stringent because we're not expanding our, our our search, right? So definitely that's something that I've started doing about five, six years old shortly after I moved to Austin, which I kind of beat myself up about not having done before, is really contributing to that community, helping out, being a mentor, being a coach, being a guide. Sometimes it's just reviewing somebody's resume. Other times it's talking to 'em about a role that I have and helping them map their current state to that role. But really just being an ally to everyone and anyone who wants to come into this space. >>I love that. I, and I have a feeling, Patty, that you're a great mentor and ally for those in your organization across organizations and those out there that may not know yet. Patty can be an ally for me. I'd love to get your take in our final minutes on a couple things. One, the, what's next in cloud from your perspective, the things that you've seen, what you've been able to achieve, and how do you see your role evolving in the industry at Optum? >>So what's next in cloud, and we've talked about that a lot, is data. How do we manage all this data? How do we catalog this data, how to reuse this data, how to reshift this data? We have data in various different environments. We're a multi-cloud company. So how do we make sure that we don't have the same data everywhere? Or even if we do, how do we reconcile that? So data, data, data, right? And from data, get to information so that we can monetize it and we can share it. So that's the, that's for me is really next step. I mean we, we know the applications that we can build, we know the analytics that we can build, but if we don't have the right data, we're limiting ourselves. So that's definitely one aspect that I know that we wanna drive. And as far as my role, I was fortunate enough to be provided with the leadership of development of a platform for analytics, which yes, involves data. >>So I'm very excited about this, right? Cuz that's, that's next level for me. I've been typically in roles that protect revenue in the DevOps and operations role. And now I'm in a revenue generating role and it has a shift in mindset. But I, I really appreciate it and I'm really taking everything I've learned up to now as a DevOps team. I knew when the bad things came. So now I'm trying to prevent, prevent my team from pushing bad things down the pipe, right? So I'm just really excited about what's, what's, what's to come because there's so many opportunities for improving the products that we build. And I'm so excited to be part of this platform. >>There are the, the horizon of opportunities is really endless, which is exciting. And to your point about data, like I mentioned, for every company, whether it's your grocery store, a retailer, the postal service has to become a data driven company. Cuz as consumers we expect that we bring that into our business lives and we expect to be able to transact in business as easily as we do on the consumer side. And that all requires organizations to not just have access to data, but to be able to build the right data infrastructure, toing insights to act on that, to feed the AI and ML models so that products services can get better, more personalized and meet the demands of the ever demanding consumer, which I know I, one of them. I wanna ask you one more final question and that is, what do you think some of the biggest challenges have been with, with respect to tech innovation in the workforce over the past five years? What are some of those things that, that you've seen that you think we're on the right track moving forward to eliminate some of these? >>That is a good question. I think one of the biggest challenges for me has been not to remain in the status quo, right? Like not to do something because it's what we've been doing, but being in the cloud allows us with so many opportunities where we can fail fast. That let's give it a shot, let's do a quick sprint, let's figure out whether it is a possibility or not. Eliminate it if it's not, and then keep moving, right? Like we don't have the same development methodology before that we had to do three months, five months, six months. You can iterate in two week chunks, get it done, confirm your, your statement or not, or negate it, but at the very least have an answer, right? So that for me is the biggest challenge. We're aware of the thinking we're just not doing. So it'd be very exciting when we, when we pivot from that and really start innovating because we have the time >>Innovating because we have the time, as I mentioned, you know, with the demand of consumers, whether it's consumer in, in on the personal side, business side, those demands are there. But the, the exciting thing is to your point, the innovations are there. The capabilities are there, the data is there. We have a lot of what we need to be able to take advantage of that. So it's gonna be exciting to see what happens over the next few years. Patty, it's been such a pleasure having you on the cube today. Thank you so much for joining. You are clearly a, a leader in terms of women in the cloud. We appreciate what you're doing, your insights, your recommendations, and your insights as to what you see in the future. You've been a great guest. Thank you so much for joining me today. >>Thank you for having me Lisa. >>My pleasure For Patty Jordan, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cubes coverage of Women of the Cloud, brought to you by aws, a special program series. We thank you so much for watching. Take care.

(upbeat music) >> Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's session of theCUBE presentation of AWS Startup Showcase, the new breakthrough in DevOps, data analytics, cloud management tools, featuring OpsRamp for the cloud management migration track. I'm John Furrier, your hosts of theCUBE Today, we're joined by Jordan Sheer, vice president of corporate marketing and Michael Fisher, director of product management in OpsRamp. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today for this topic of challenges of delivering availability for the modern enterprise. >> Thanks, John. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Hey, so first of all, I have to congratulate you guys on the successful launch and growth of your company. You've been in the middle of the action of all this DevOps, microservices, cloud scale, and availability is the hottest topic right now. IT Ops, AI Ops, whoever you want to look at it, IT is automating a way in a lot of value. You guys are in the middle of it. Congratulations on that, and congratulations on being featured. Take a minute to explain what you guys do. What's the strategy? What's the vision? What's the platform. >> Yeah, I'll take that one. So I would just kind of take a step back and we look at the broader landscape of the ecosystem of tools that all sits in. There's a lot of promises and a lot of whats and features and functionality that are being announced. Three pillars of durability and all these tools are really trying to solve a fundamental problem we see in the market and this problem transcends the classic IT ops and it's really front and center, even in this modern DevOps market, this is the problem of availability. And so when we talk about availability, we don't just mean the four nines for an uptime metric, availability to the modern enterprise, is really about an application doing what it needs to do to serve the users in a way that works for the business. And I always like to have a classic example of an e-commerce site, right? So maybe you can get to an e-commerce sites online, but you can't add an item to a cart, right? Well, you can't do something that is a meaningful transaction for the business. And because of that, that experience is not available to you as a user and it's not available to the business because it didn't result in a positive outcome. So the promise of OpsRamp is really around this availability concept and the way we rationalize this as a three pillar formats. And so we think the three pillars of availability are the ability to observe data, this is the first piece of it all. And from a problem perspective, what we're really trying to say is do we have the right data at any given point in time to accurately diagnose, assess, and troubleshoot application behavior? And we see it as a huge problem with a lot of enterprises, because data that can be often siloed, too many tools, many teams, and each one has a slightly different understanding of application health. For example, the DevOps team may have a instance of Prometheus or they may have some other monitoring tool, or the IT team may have their own set, right? But when you have that kind of segmented view of the world, you're not really having the data in a central place to understand availability at the most holistic level, which is really from an end-user to that middleware, to the databases, to underlying microservices, which are really providing the end-user experience. So that observed problem is that first thing OpsRamp tries to solve. Secondly, this is the analyze phase, right? So analyze to us means are we giving the proper intelligence on top of the data to drive meaningful insights to this operator and user? And the promise here is that can we understand that baseline performance and potentially even mitigate future instance from happening? How often do we hear a cloud provider going down or some SaaS provider going down because of some microservice migration issue or some third party application or networking they're relying on? I can think of dozens on my head. So that's kind of the second piece. And then lastly is around this act. This is an area of a lot of investment for ops because we think this is the final pillar for nailing this availability problem. Because again, IT teams are not getting larger, they're getting smaller, right? Everyone's trying to do more with less. And so from a platform perspective, how do we enable teams to focus on the most business critical tasks, which are your cloud migrations, adopting microservices to run your modern applications, innovative projects. These are the things that IT and DevOps teams are tasked with. And maintaining availability is not something people want to do, that should be automated. And so when you think of automation, this is a big piece for us. So again, the key problem is how can we enable these IT or DevOps teams to focus on those business critical things, and automate it with the rest. And so this is the OpsRamp's three pillars of availability. >> John: Talk about the platform, if you don't mind. I know you've got a slide on this. I want to jump into it because this comes up a lot, availability's not just throughout uptime, because you know, uptime, five nine reliability is an old school concept. Now you have different kinds of services that might be up but slow, would cause some problems, as applications and this modern era have all these new sets of services. Can you go through and talked about the platform? >> Yeah, absolutely. So OpsRamp has a very... We address this availability problem pretty holistically, like I mentioned. From a platform perspective, there that two core lines that are comprising a product. One is this hybrid monitoring piece. This is that data layer. And the next one is event management, it's more of the we'll talk about that analysis. And so we treat the monitor as a direct feed into this event management. We're layering that on top, or layering machine learning and AI to augment the insights derived from that first pillar. And so this is where we see a really interesting intersection of data science and monitoring tools. We invest a lot in this area because there's a lot of meaningful problems to solve. In particular alert fatigue, or potentially root cause analysis, things that can take an operator or a developer a long time to do on their own, OpsRamp tries to augment that knowledge of your systems and applications so that you can get to the bottom of things faster and get on with your day. And so it's not just for the major outages, it's not just for the things that are on Twitter or CNN that's for daily things that can just distract you from the ability to do your job, which is to be a core innovator for a business. >> I will really say John, that we are already seeing some couple things here. Number one, we're already actually seeing fundamental transformations in the marketplace. Customers who have seen reduction in alert volumes of up to 95% in some cases, which is as you can imagine, that's completely transformational for these businesses. And number two, I think one of the promises of hybrid of observability working in tandem with event and incident management is the idea of finding unknown unknowns within your organization and being able to act upon them. All too many times nowadays, monitoring tools are there to just surface issues that you may know that you're looking for and then help you find it and then take action on them. But I think the idea of OpsRamp is that we really using that big data platform that Michael talks about is to really surface all the issues that you might not be able to see, identify the root cause, and then take action on those root causes. So in our world, application availability is a much more proactive activity where the IT operations team can actually be proactive about these incidents and then take action on them. >> Yes. Jordan, if you don't mind, I'm following up on that real quick. Talk about the difference uptime versus availability, because something could be up and reliable but not available and its services get flaky. Things may look like they're up and running. Can you just unpack that a little? >> So to me, I mean the really key aspect of availability that I think the old definition of uptime doesn't address is performance. That something can be up, but not performing, but still not really be available. And his e-commerce example, I think is a great one. Let's take, for example, you get on Amazon, right? The Amazon e-commerce experience is always available. And what that means is that at any given moment, when I want to click through the e-commerce experience, it performs. It's available. It's always there and I can buy it at any given time. If there's a latency issue, if the application has a lag, if it takes 30 seconds to really perform an activity on that application, in the alternative definition, that's not available anymore. Even though the application may be up, it's not performing, it's not providing a frictionless end customer experience, and it's not driving the business forward, and therefore it's not available. The definition of availability in OpsRamp is creating a meaningful customer experience that actually drives the business forward. So in that definition, if a service is up but it's latent, but it's not providing excellent customer experience that the business wants to promise to its end-user, it's not available. So that's really how we're redefining this whole notion of availability and we're urging our customers and people in the marketplace to do the same. Ask yourself the hard question, is your application available or is it just up? >> Yeah, and I think that the confluence of the business logic around what the outcome is, and I think this is the classic cliche, "Oh, it's all about outcomes." Here, you're saying that the outcome can be factored into the policy of the tech, meaning this is the experience we want for our users, our customers, and this is what we determined as acceptable and excellent. That's the new metric, so that's the new definition. You can almost flip the script. It feels like it's being flipped around. Is that the right way to think about it? >> Well, yeah, I think that's actually absolutely correct that an application needs to be business aware, especially in the modern day because all of the businesses that we work with, their applications are really the stock and trade of the business. And so if you create an application that is not business aware, that is just there for its own sake or is not performing according to the revenue goals or the targets of the business, then it's no longer available. >> I mean, it could be little things. It could be like an interface on the UI, it could be something really small or a microservice that's not getting to the database in time or some backup or some sort of high availability. Really interesting things could happen with microservices and DevOps, can you guys share some examples of what people might fall into from a trap standpoint or just from a bad architecture? What are some of the things that they might see in their environment that would say that they need help? >> Yeah, I can probably take that one. So there's a lot of, I call them symptoms of a bad availability experience. And I wouldn't even say it's a pure microservice specific thing. I would say it's really any application that's end-user phasing. I see similar pitfalls. One is a networking issue. I see the number one thing usually with these kinds of issues that networking or config changes that can cause environments to go down. And so when we talk to organizations get to the bottom of this is usually a config wasn't thought through thoroughly, or it was a QAed, they didn't have the proper controls in place. I would say that's probably the number one reasons I see applications go unavailable. I think that's some majority of DevOps teams that can empathize with that is someone did something and I didn't know, and it caused some applications servers go down and it causes cascading event of issues. That's like modern paradigm of issues. On old school days, it's a layer zero issue, someone unplugged something. Well, modern times it's someone pushed something I don't have an idea of what we're doing opposing a downstream effect it would have been and therefore my application went unavailable. So that's again, probably the number one pitfall. And again, I think the hardest problem in microservices still around networking, right? Enterprise level networking and connecting that with many data center applications. For example, Kubernetes, which is the provider or the opera orchestrator of any microservice is still getting to the level, many organizations are still getting a level of comfort with trusting production applications to run on it because one is a skill gap. There's not many large organizations have a huge Kubernetes application team, usually they're fairly small agile units. And so with that, there's a skill gaps, right? How do you network in Kubernetes? How do you persist in storage? How to make sure that your application has the proper security built into it, right? Because that these are all legacy problems kind of catching up with the modern environments, because just because you're modernizing, it doesn't mean these old problems go away. It just take a different form. >> Yeah. That's a great point. Modernization. You guys, can you guys talk about this modern application movement in context to how DevOps has risen really into providing value there? Certainly with cloud scale and how companies are dealing with the old legacy model of centralized IT or security teams who slow things down? Because one of the things that we're seeing in this market is speed, faster developer time to market, time to value. Especially if you're an e-commerce site, you're seeing potentially real-time impact. So you have the speed game on the application side that's actually good, being slowed down by lack of automation or just slow response to a policy or a change or an incident. I mean, this seems to be a big discussion. Can you guys share your thoughts on this and your reaction to that? >> I can tell you that one of the places that we are displacing, one of the markets that we are displacing is the legacy ITOM market, because it can't provide the speed that you're talking about, John. I think about a couple of specific examples. I won't necessarily name the providers, but there are several legacy item providers that for example, require an appliance. They require an appliance for you to administer IT operations management services. And that in and of itself is a much slower way of deploying item. Number two, they require this customized proof of value, proof of concept operation, where companies, enterprise organizations need to orchestrate the customization of the item platform for their use. You buy separate management packs that would integrate with different existing applications on your stack. To us, that's too slow. It means you have to make a bunch of decisions upfront about your item practice and then live with those decisions for years to come, especially with software licenses. So by even moving that entire operation to SaaS, which is what the OpsRamp platform has done, has accelerated the ability to drive availability for applications. Number two, and I'd like to pitch this over to Michael, because I think this is really fundamental to how OpsRamp is driving availability, is the use of artificial intelligence. So when we think about being proactive and we think about moving more quickly, it takes machine learning to do a lot of that work to be able to monitor alert streams and alert floods, especially with the smaller scale down IT teams that Michael has mentioned before. You need to harness the power of artificial intelligence to do some of that work. So those are two key ways that I see the platform driving additional speed, especially in a DevOps environment. And I'd love to hear as well from Michael, additional enhancements. >> Michael, if you don't mind, I'll add one thing. First of all, great call out there, Jordan. Yeah. So the legacy slow down, it's like say appliance or whatever that also impacts potentially the headroom on automation. So if you could also talk about the AI machine learning, AI piece, as well as how that impacts automation, because the end of the day automation is going to have to be lock step in with the AI. >> Yeah. And this kind of goes back to that OpsRamp three pillars of availability, right? So that's the what we do, but again, it's all goes back to the availability problem. But we see that observe, analyze, and act as a seamless flow, right? To have it under the same group or the same tent provides tremendous opportunity and value for our DevOps or IT Ops teams that trust the OpsRamp platform because I'm a big believer that garbage in, garbage out. Having the monitoring data in native or having this data native to your tool provides a lot of meaningful value for customers because they have their monitoring data, which is coming from the OpsRamp tool. They have the intelligence, which is being provided by their ops cube machine learning. And they have our process automation and workflow to feed off that directly. And so when I think of this modernization problem, I really think about modern DevOps teams and the problems they face, which is around doing more with less, that's kind of the paradigm of many teams, each one is trying to learn, how do I do security for Kubernetes? How do I observe my security in the Kubernetes' cluster? How do I make sure my CI/CD pipeline is set up in such a way that I don't need to monitor it, or I don't need to give it attention? And so having a really seamless flow from that observe, analyze, act enables those problems to be solved in a much more seamless way that I don't see many legacy providers be able to keep up with. >> Awesome. Jordan, if you don't mind, I'd love to get your definition of what modern availability means. >> Yeah. So, you know, as I've gone through a little bit previously, so modern availability to me is availability uptime. It's also performance, right? Is the app location marks set down by both the application team, but also by the business. And number three is it business aware. So a truly modern available application is being able, is driving an excellent customer experience according to the product roadmap, but it's also doing it in a way that moves the business forward. Right? And if your applications today are not meeting those benchmarks, if they're performing but they're not driving the business forward, if they're not performing, if they're not up, if they don't meet any one of those three core tenants, they're not truly available. And I think that what's most impactful to me about what the platform, what OpsRamp in particular does in today's environment is operating under that modern definition of available is more difficult than ever. It is more difficult because we are living in a hybrid, distributed, multi-cloud world with tons of software vendors that are being sold into these organizations today that are promising similar results. So when you're an IT operator, how do you drive availability in light of that kind of environment? You have reduced budget. You have greater complexity, you have more tools than ever, and yet your software is more impactful to the bottom line than ever before. It's in this environment that we took a hard look at what's going on in the world, and we say these operators need help driving availability. That's the germination of the OpsRamp platform. >> That's a great point. We're going to come into the culture. And the second Emily Freeman's keynote about the revolution in DevOps talks about this, multiple personas and multiple tools that drive specialism, specialties that actually don't help in the modern era. So I'm going to hold that for a second. We'll come to the cultural question in a minute. Michael, if you don't mind to pivot off that definition, what are the metrics? With all those tools out there, all these new things, what are the new metrics for modern availability? It's more than MTTR. >> Yeah. This whole metrics that I think people spend a lot of time on, I think it's actually people thinking in the wrong direction if you ask me. So I've seen a lot of work. People say that the red metrics, that rate error duration or its views, utilization, saturation errors, or it's these other more contrived application metrics. I think they're looking at a piece of the stack, they're not looking at the right things. Even things like mean time to resolve and critical and server response time, mean time to tech, those are all downstream indicators. I like to look at much more proactive signals. So things like app deck score, your application index, or application performance index, these are things that are much more end-user facing or even things like NPS score, right? This has never really been a classic metric for these operations teams, but what a NPS score shows you is are your users happy using your applications? Is your experience giving what they expect it to be? And usually when you ask these two questions, even if you ask the DevOps team do you know what your Atlas score is? And you use NPS score, but what are those, right? Because it's just never been in that conversation. Those have been more maybe on the business side or maybe on the product management side. But I think that as organizations modernize, we see a much more homogenous group forming among these DevOps and product units to answer these kinds of questions. That's something we focus a lot on OpsRamp it's not seeing the silo of DevOps product or Ops. We're each thinking of how do you have a better NPS and how do we drive a better app decks? Because those are our leading indicators of whether or not our applications available. >> So I want to ask you guys both before, again, back to the own cultural question I really want to get into, but from a customer standpoint, they're being bombarded with sales folks, "Hey, buy my tool. I got some monitoring over a year. I got AI ops. I got observability." I mean, there's a zillion venture back companies that just do observability, just monitoring, just AI Ops. As the modern error is here, what's going on in the psychology of the customer because they want to like clear the noise. We saw it in cybersecurity years ago. Right? They buy everything, and next thing you know, they're going to fog of tools. What's the current state of the customer? What do they need right now as to be positioned for the automation, for the edge, all these cool cloud-scale next gen opportunities? >> Yeah. So in my mind, it's basically three things, right? Customers, number one, they want a vision. They want a vision that understands their position in the enterprise organization and what the vision for application development is going to be moving forward. Number two, they don't want to be sold anymore. You're absolutely right. It's harder and harder to make a traditional enterprise sale nowadays. It's because there's a million vendors. They're just like us. They're trying to get people on the phone and it can be tough out there. And number three, they want to be able to validate on their own with their own time. So in light of that, we've introduced a free trial of our cloud monitoring. It's a lightweight version of the OpsRamp platform, but it is a hundred percent free right now. It is available for two weeks with an unlimited number of users and resource count. And you come in and you can get started on your own using preloaded infrastructure from us if you want, or you could bring your own infrastructure. And we can tell you that customers who onboard through the free trial can see insights on their infrastructure within 20 minutes of onboarding. And that experience in and of itself is a differentiator and it allows our customers to buy on their own terms and timelines. >> Sure. And that's a great point. We brought this up last quarter in the showcase, one of the VCs brought up and says he was an old school VC, kind of still in the game, but he was saying in the old days in shelf where you didn't know if it was going to be successful until like downstream, now it's SaaS. If a customer doesn't see the value immediately. It's there. I mean, there's no hiding. You cannot hide from the truth of value here in the modern era. That's a huge impact on how customers now are evaluating and making decisions. >> Absolutely. And you know, I don't think any customer out there wants to read it on the white paper on the state of enterprise IT anymore. We recognize that and so we are hyper-focused on driving value for our customers and prospects as fast as possible, and still providing them the control that they need to make decisions on their own terms. >> Michael, I've got to ask you, since you have the keys to the kingdom on the product management side, what's the priorities on your side for customers, obviously the pressure's there, you guys are doing great, customers try it out for free. They can get, see the value and then double down on it. That's the cloud way. That's what's DevOps all about. You have to prioritize the key things, what's going on with your world. >> Yeah. And I would say of course prod has their own perspective on this. Our number one goal right now is to accelerate that time to value. And so when we look at one who we're targeting, right? So there's DevOps user, this modern application of operator, what are their core concerns in the world? One is, again, that data problem. Are we bringing the right type of data to solve meaningful problems? And two, are we making insights out of that? So from my priority's perspective, we're really driving more focus on this time to value problem and reduced time to there's some key value metrics we have and I'll go to that, but it's all an effort to make sure that when they hit our platform and they use our platform, we're showing them their return on investment as fast as possible. And so, what a return on investment means (indistinct) can slightly vary, but we try to narrow focus on our key target persona and market and focused on them. So right now it definitely is on that modern DevOps team enterprise, looking to provide modern application availability. >> Awesome. Hey guys, for the last two minutes, I'd love to shift now to the culture. So Jordan, you mentioned that appliance, the item example, which is I think indicative of many scenarios in the legacy old world, old guard school, where there's a cultural shift where some people are pissed off, they're going to go and they slowing things down, right? So you see people that are unhappy, the sites having performance of an e-commerce sites, having five second delays or some impact to the business, and the developers are moving fast with DevOps. The DevOps has risen up now where it's driving the agenda. Kind of impacting the old school departments, whether it's security or IT, central groups that are responding in days and weeks to requests, not minutes. This is a huge cultural thing. What's your thoughts on this? >> I absolutely think it's true. I think the reason were options differ slightly on that is we do see the rise of DevOps culture and how it starts to take control and rest the customer experience back from the legacy providers within the organization, but we still see that there's value in having a foot in the old and a foot in the new, and it's why that term hybrid, we talked about hybrid observability is really important to us. It's true, DevOps culture has a lot of great reasons why it's taken over, right? Increases in speed, increases in quality, increases in innovation, all of that. And yet the enterprise is still heavily invested in the old way. And so what they are looking for is a platform to get them from the old way to the new way fast. And that's where we really shine. We say we can enable, we can work with the existing tool set that you have, and we can move you even more in the future of this new definition of availability. And we can get you that DevOps state of play even quicker. And so you don't have to make a heavy lift and you don't have to take a big gamble right now. You can still provide this kind of slow moving migration plan that you need to feel comfortable, and it doesn't force you to throw away a bunch of stuff. >> And if you guys can comment on whole day two operations, that's where the whole ops reliability thing comes in, right? This is kind of where we're at right now, Dev and Ops. Ops really driving the quality and reliability, availability and your definition. This is key, right? This is where we're starting to see the materialization of DevOps. >> It's why we have guys like Michael Fisher who are really driving our agenda forward, right? Because I think he represents the vision of the future that we all want to get to. And the platform that the product team in OpsRamp is building is there, right? But we also want to provide a path for day two, right? There are still some companies are living in day one and they want to get to day two. And so that's where we drive out here. >> And Michael, the platform with the things like containers really helps people get there. They don't have to kill the old to bring in the new, they can coexist. Can you quickly comment your reaction to that? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I talked to a lot of, I won't name any but large scale web companies, and they're actually balancing this today. They have some infrastructure or applications running on bare metal that somebody's got Kubernetes, and there's actually, it's not so much, everything has to go one direction. It actually is what makes the business, right? Even for migrating to the cloud, there has to be a compelling business reason to do so. And I think a lot of companies are realizing that for the application side as well. What runs where and how do we run it? Do we migrate a legacy monolith to a microservice? How fast do we do it? What's the business impact of doing it? These are all critical things that DevOps teams are engaged with on a daily basis as part of the core workflows, so that's my take on that. >> Guys. Great segment. Thanks for coming on and sharing that insight. Congratulates the OpsRamp, doing really extremely well, right in the right position on ramp for operations to be DevOps, whatever you want to call it, you guys are in the center of it with a platform. I think that's what people want, delivering on these availability, automation, AI. Congratulations and thanks for coming on theCUBE for the Showcase Summit. >> Thanks so much. >> Thank you so much, John. >> Okay, theCUBE's coverage of AWS showcase hottest startups in cloud. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (relaxing music)

>>Welcome to the AWS Startup. Showcase new breakthroughs in devops, did analytics and cloud management tools. I'm lisa martin, I've got Jordan share here with the next vice president of corporate marketing Ops ramp, Jordan welcome to the program >>lisa It's great to be here. Great to talk about some of the stuff. Thanks for having me. >>Yeah let's break this down. Tell me, first of all about Ops ramp, how is it facilitating the transformation of I. T. Ops helping companies as your website says control the chaos. >>Sure. So option is an availability platform for the modern enterprise. We consolidate digital I. T. Operations management into one place. So availability as you can imagine um is a consistent challenge for I. T. Operations teams in large enterprises maintaining service assurance, making sure that services are up available, performing uh Ops tramp is the platform that powers all of that and we bring a lot of different features and functions to bear in driving availability. I think about ai ops I think about hybrid infrastructure monitoring, multi cloud monitoring, that's all part of the options offering. Modern enterprise. >>Talk to me about back in 2014 what the founders saw of Ops ramps, what were some of the gaps in the market that they saw that this needs to be addressed and no one's >>doing? It's a great question. So abstract was originally founded as part of an MSP offering. So we were a platform serving managed service providers who wanted to consolidate the infrastructure of their clients onto one multi tenant platform. What they noticed was that these enterprise customers of the MSP s whom we served. Really appreciated that promise of being able to consolidate infrastructure, being able to visualize different alerts, different critical incidents that might arise all on one platform. And so that's when we decided to raise around and take it directly to the enterprise so they could have the same kind of visibility and control that MSP s were delivering back to them, >>Visibility and control is essential, especially if your objective is to help control the chaos. Talk to me about some of the trends that you've seen, especially in the last 18 months, as we've been in such a dynamic market, we've seen the rapid acceleration of digital business transformation. What are some of those key trends especially with respect to a I ops that you think are really poignant. >>Yeah. You know, we like to think over here that the pandemic didn't really change a whole lot, accelerated a whole lot. And so we started to see at least within the past 12 to 18 months this acceleration of moving to the cloud, you know, Gardner forecasted that I thi enterprises, large enterprises are going to be spending upwards of 300 billion um in the move to the public cloud. So that has really facilitated some of the decisions that we have made and the promises that we offer to our customers, number one, Number two, with the move to remote work and the adoption of a lot of different digital tools and uh the creation and implementation of a lot of different digital customer services. Um It has forced these enterprises whom we serve to really rethink how they provide flexibility and control to their larger enterprise. I. T. Teams that might be distributed might be working remote might be in different locations. How can they consolidate infrastructure as it gets more and more complex. So that's where ops tramp has really created the most value. So we think about two things. Number one I want to consolidate my multi cloud environments so services via AWS for example or other cloud providers. How do I bring that within? How do I bring that control within my enterprise within the context of maybe additional private cloud offerings or public cloud infrastructure. Number one. Number two how do I get control over the constant flood of alerts but I'm getting from these different digital services and tools all in one place. Um you know so we are responding to that need by for example uh implementing a really rich robust ai ops functionality within the train platform to both be able to consolidate those alerts that are coming through and really escalate the critical ones um for to allow I. T. Operations seems to be a little bit more proactive and understand how incidents are happening and giving them the ability to remediate those incidents become before they become business critical and can really shut down the internet. >>Speaking of the enterprise. I'm curious if your customer conversations have changed in level in the last 18 months as everything has become chaotic for quite a while. We're still in we've been in a hybrid cloud world for a while. We are in a hybrid workforce situation. Have you noticed an escalation up the stack in terms of the c suite of going we need to make sure that we're leveraging cloud properly financially responsibly and ensuring that we have this ability and all the services that we're delivering. >>You mean are they sweating more And are they coming to us when they're sweating more? Yeah. Yeah for sure. The short answer is yes. So let me give you a great example. Um One of our recent customers they manufacture chips microchips and what they've noticed is that number one demand has grown um due to the increase in digital transformation. Um Number two supply chains have become more constricted for them specifically so they're asking themselves. All right how can we equip our I. T. Operations teams to maintain the availability of different logistics services within our organization So that they can both maintain service availability of these different logistic logistic services um and be able to stay on deadline as much as they possibly can um during a supply chain crisis that we're facing right now. And number two how can we as we move to the cloud and we see a distribution of our workforce still be able to maintain I. T. Operation services regardless. Um That is a need in particular in particular the supply chain um constraint issue. Uh That is a need that has arisen only in the last 18 months and it is a perfect use case for ops ramp or a platform that allows you to consolidate I. T. Operations to one place and give flexibility control across a distributed environment with a number of different new digital services that have been implemented. To solve some of these challenges. >>Talk to me about Ai ops as a facilitator of that availability visibility in this hybrid world that is still somewhat chaotic. >>Yeah great question. So originally it was al gore algorithmic operations is coined by Gardner today it's artificial intelligence in its operations. So the notion there is simple right there's a lot of data coming in on throughout the I. T. Operations organization. How can we look for patterns within that data to help us understand and act more proactively. Um From an operational perspective well there are a lot of promises uh that go along with A. I. Ops that it's going to completely transform these I. T. Organizations that it's going to reduce headcount. Um We don't necessarily find that to be true. What we do find true though is that the original promise behind a IOP still exists right we need to look for patterns in the data and we need to be able to drive insights from those patterns so that is what the Ai ops feature functionality within abstract really does. It looks for patterns within alerts and helps you understand what these patterns ultimately mean. Let me give you a great example so we have different algorithms within the train platform for co occurring events or for downstream events that help us indicate, okay if a number of these events are happening across one geography or one um business service for example we can actually look for those co occurring patterns and we can see that there may be one resource or set of resources that is actually causing a bunch of these incidents for a bunch of these alerts upstream of all the actual alerts themselves. So instead of the ICTy Operations organization having to go in and remediate a bunch of different distributed alerts, they can actually look at that upstream alert and say okay that's the one that really matters, that's where I need to pay most of my attention to. Um and that's where I'm going to deploy a team or open up a ticket or escalate to I. T. S. M. Or a variety of different things because I know that these co occurring alerts are creating a pattern that's driving some insight. Um so that's just part of the overall Ops tramp Ai Ops um promise or uh you know there's there's tons more that goes along with the biopsy but we really want to take some of the load and reduce some of the alerts that these icy operations teams are having to deal with on a daily basis. >>So let's talk about how you do that from a practical perspective, is looking at some of the notes that your team provided and according to I. D. C. This was a report from asia pacific excluding Japan that 75% of global two K enterprises are going to adopt a I Ai Ops by 2023 but a lot of Ai ops projects have been built on and haven't been successful. How does abstract help change flip the script on that? >>So it really comes down to the quality of the data right? If you have a bolt on tool, you have to optimize that tool for the different data lakes or data warehouses or sources of data that exists within your operational organization. I think about multi cloud apps across the multiplied environment. So I have to optimize the data that is coming in from each of those different cloud providers onto a bolt on tool to make sure that the data that's being fed to the tool is accurate and it is a true reflection of what's going on in the operational organization. That's number one. If you look at ops tramp and the differentiation there. Um op tramp is a big data platform at its core. So you bring ops tramp in, you optimize it for your overall infrastructure mix and then the data that gets fed into the ai ops feature functionality is the same across the board. There is no further optimization. So what that means is that the insights that are being driven by the outside perhaps platform are more sophisticated, they're more nuanced, there are more accurate representation and they're probably driving ultimately better insights than sticking a tool on top of five different existing data warehouses or data lakes. >>So if you've got a customer and I'm sure that you do enterprises, as we said, going to be adopting this substantially by 2023 which is just around the corner, how do you help them sort through the infrastructure and the ecosystem that they have so that they're not bolting things on but rather they can actually really build this very intuitively to deliver that availability and the visibility that they need fast. >>Yeah, so a couple of different comments on that ways that we try to help. Number one, I think it's critical for us to understand the challenges of the modern I. T. Infrastructure environment, across different verticals, different industries. So when we walk into any of our clients, we already have a good mix of their challenges. Is it Iot? Are they dealing with a bunch of different devices at the edge, are they, you know, a telecom with uh critical incidents is incidents in the network that they need to remediate. Um Number two, we try to smooth the glide path into understanding the obscene ramp platform and promise early. So what does that mean? It means we offer a free trial of the platform itself at tried out abstract dot com, you can set up up to 1000 resources for free with an unlimited number of users for 14 days and kick the tires particularly in multi cloud monitoring and see what sorts of insights you can determine um, just within those two weeks and in fact we're, we put our cards on the table and we say you can probably see your first insights into your infrastructure within 20 minutes of setting up the abstract free trial um, and if you don't want to bring your resources, your own resources to it will even provide a collection of resources preloaded onto the platform so you can try it out yourself without having to get, you know, a bunch of approvals to load infrastructure in there. So two pieces, number one, it's this proof of concept proof of value where we try to understand the clients pain and number two, if you want to kick the tires on it yourself, we can offer that with this free trial offering. >>So what I'm hearing and that is fast time to value which in these days is absolutely essential. How does that differentiate ops ramp as a technology company and >>from your customer's perspective? Yeah, so I appreciate that. And the meantime to incite is one of the critical aspects of our product roadmap, we really want to drive down that time to value coefficient because it's what these operations teams need as complexity grows really if you take a step back right, everything is getting more complex. So it's not only the pandemic and the rise of multi cloud but it's more digital customer experience is to compete. It's the availability, it's the need of a modern enterprise to be agile. All of those things translate basically into speed and flexibility and agility. So if there's one guiding light of ops tram it's really to equip the operations team with the tools that they need to move flexibly with the business. There is a department in any modern enterprise today if they need access to the public cloud and they have a credit card they're getting on AWS right now and they are spinning up a host of services. We want to be the platform that still gives the central IT operations team some aspect of control over that with the ability with without taking away the ability of that you know siloed operations team somewhere in some geo geographic region. We want to empower them to be able to spend up that AWS service but at the same time we want to just know that exists and be able to control it. >>How can A I A facilitator of better alignment between I. T. Tops and the business as you just gave a great example of the business getting the credit card spending up services that they need for their line of business or their function and then from a cultural perspective I'm just curious how can A. I. R. S. B. A facilitator of those two groups working better together in a constantly complex environment. >>That's a great question. So imagine if I. T. Operations did more than just keep the lights on. Imagine if you knew that your I. T. Operations team could be more proactive and more productive about alerts incidents and insights from infrastructure monitoring. What that means is that you are free to create any kind of digital customer experience that you would want to drive value back to your end user. It means that no longer do you think about it? Operations is this big hodgepodge of technology that you have to spend you know hundreds of millions of dollars a year in network operations teams and centers and technologies just to keep control of right by consolidating everything down to one place one sas based platform like this it frees up the business to be able to innovate. Um You know take advantage of new technologies that come around and really to work flexibly with the needs of the business as it grows. That's the promise of a tramp. We're here to replace you know these old appliances or different management packs of tools that exists that you consistently have to add an optimized and tune to feel to to empower the operations team to act like that. Um The truth is that is that everything is SAT space now, everything is status based and when you get to the core of infrastructure, it needs to be managed to be a SAs and thats ops ramp in a nutshell, >>I like that nutshell, that's excellent. I want to know a little bit about your go to market with a W. S. Talk to me a little bit about the partnership there and where can what's your go to market like? Essentially, >>yeah, so were included in the AWS marketplace, we have an integration with a W. S um as the de facto biggest cloud provider in the world. We have to play nice with them. Um and obviously the insights that we drive on the option platform have to be insights that you need from your AWS experience. You know, it has to be similar to cloudwatch or in a lot of, in a lot of cases um it has to be as rich as the cloudwatch experience in order for you to want to use op tramp within the context of the different other multi cloud providers, so that's how abstract works. Um you know, we understand that there's a lot of AWS certified professionals who work with who work at Ops tramp, who understand what AWS is doing and who consistently introduce new features that play well with the service is the service library that AWS currently offers today. >>Got it as we look ahead to 2022 hopefully a better year than 2020 and 2021. What are some of the things that you're excited about? What are some of the things on the ops ramp road map that you can share with us? >>Yeah, so you know, the other, the other big aspect of uh the new landscape of IT operations is observe ability. We're really excited about observe ability, we think that it is the new landscape of monitoring um you know, the idea of being able to find unknown unknowns that exists within your operational stack is important to us to be able to consolidate that with the power of ai ops so that you now have machine learning on top of your ability to find unknown unknown issues. That's that's going to be super exciting for us. I know the product team is taking a hard look at how to drive hybrid, observe ability within the abstract platform. So how do we give a better operational perspective to on prem public cloud and private cloud infrastructure moving forward and how do we ingest alerts before they're even alerts? I mean that's observe ability in a nutshell, if I'm getting in and I'm checking the option platform every day, then that's a workflow that we can remove by creating a better observe ability posture within the train platform. So now the platform is going to run unsupervised right in the background um and ai apps is going to be able to take action on predictive incidents before they ever occur, that's what we're looking at in the future. You know, everything is getting more complex. We've heard this story a million times before, we want to be the platform that can handle that complexity on a massive scale, >>finding the unknown, unknowns, converting them into knowns I imagine is going to be more and more critical across every industry. Last question for you, given the culture and the dynamics of the market that we're in, are there any industries and all of trump's is seeing is really key targets for this type of technology. >>The nice thing about ops tramp is we are we are really vertical neutral, right? Any industry that has complexity and that's every industry can really take advantage of a platform like this. We have seen recent success particularly in finance manufacturing, health care because they deal with new emerging types of complexity that they are not necessarily cared for. So I think about some of our clients, some of our friends in the finance industry, you know, um as transactions accelerate as new customer experiences arise uh these are things that their operations teams need to be equipped for and that's where up tramp really drives value. What's more is that these uh these industries are also somewhat legacy, so they have a foot in the old way of doing things, they have a foot in the data center, you know, there are many financial institutions that have large data center footprint for security considerations. And so if they are living in the data center and they want to make the move to cloud, then they need something like cops ramp to be able to keep a foot in both sides of the equation, >>right, Keep that availability and that visibility. Jordan, thank you for joining me today and talking to us about ops around the capabilities that Ai ops can deliver to enterprises in any industry. The facilitation of of the I. T. Folks in the business folks and what you guys are doing with AWS, we appreciate your time. >>Absolutely lisa, thank you very much. Thanks for the great questions. If you ever need a job in corporate marketing, you seem like you're a natural fit. I'll >>call you awesome. >>Thank you >>for Jordan share. I'm lisa martin, You're watching the AWS startup showcase.

(upbeat music) >> And, welcome back to theCube's coverage of Red Hat Summit, 2021. I'm John Furrier, host of theCube. We've got a great segment here on how Red Hat is working with telcos and the disruption in the telco cloud. We've got a great guest Cube alumni, Darrell Jordan Smith, senior vice president of industries and global accounts at Red Hat. Darrell, great to see you. Thanks for coming back on theCube. >> Oh, it's been, it's great to be here and I'm really excited about having the opportunity to talk to you today. >> Yeah, we're not in person, in real life's coming back soon. Although I hear Mobile World Congress, might be in person this year, looking like it's good. A lot of people are going to be virtual and activating I know. A lot to talk about. This is probably one of the most important topics in the industry because when you talk about telco industry, you're really talking about the edge. You're talking about 5G, talking about industrial benefits for business, because it's not just edge for connectivity access. We're talking about innovative things from self-driving cars to business benefits. It's not just consumer, it's really bringing that together. You guys are really leading with the cloud-native platform from REL, OpenShift managed services. Everything about the cloud-native underpinnings, you guys have been successful as a company. But now in your area, telco is being disrupted. You're leading the way >> Absolutely. Give us your take on this, this is super exciting. >> Well, it's actually one of the most exciting times. I've been in the industry for 30 years. I'm probably aging myself now, but in the telecommunications industry, this for me, is the most exciting. It's where, you know, technology is actually going to visibly change, the way, that everyone interacts with the network. And with the applications that are being developed out there on, on our platform. and, you know, as you mentioned, IoT, and a number of the other AI and ML innovations, that are occurring in the marketplace. We're going to see a new wave of applications and innovation. >> What's the key delivery workload you're seeing, with 5G environment. Obviously it's not just, you know 5G in the sense of thinking about mobile phones or mobile computers as they are now. It's not just that consumer, "Hey surf the web and check your email and get an app and download and, and communicate". It's bigger than that now. Can you tell us, where you see the workloads coming in on the 5G environment? >> You, you hit the nail on the head. The, the, the, the killer application, isn't the user or the consumer and the way that we traditionally have known it. Because you might be able to download a video and that might take 20 seconds less, but you're not going to pay an awful lot more money for that. The real opportunity around 5G, is the industrial applications. Things like connected car. You know automotive driving, factory floor automation. How you actually interface digitally with your bank. How we're doing all sorts of things, more intelligently at the edge of the network, using artificial intelligence and machine learning. So all of those things are going to deliver a new experience, for everyone that interacts with the network and the telcos are at the heart of it. >> You know, I want to get into the real kind of underpinnings, of what's going on with the innovations happening. You just kind of laid out kind of the implications of the use cases and the target application workloads, but there's kind of two big things going on with the edge and 5G. One is under the hood networking, you know, what's going on with the moving the packets around the workload, throughput, bandwidth, et cetera, and all that, that goes on under the hood. And then there's the domain expertise in the data, where AI and machine learning have to kind of weave in. So let's take the first part, first. OpenShift is out there. Red Hat's got a lot of products, but you have to nail the networking requirements and cloud native with containerization, because at large scales, not just packets, it's all kinds of things going on, security, managing compute at the edge. There's a lot of things under the hood, if you will, from a networking perspective. >> Could you share what Red Hat's doing in that area? >> Yep, so, so that's a very good question, in that we've been building on our experience with OpenStack and the last time I was on theCube, I talked about, you know, people virtualizing network applications and network services. We're taking a lot of that knowledge, that we've learned from OpenStack and we're bringing that into the container based world. So we're looking at how we accelerate packets. We're looking at how we build cloud-native applications, on bare metal, in order to drive that level of performance. We're looking at actually how we do, the certification around these applications and services, because they may be sitting in different applets across the cloud. And in some instances running on multiple clouds, at the same time. So we're building on our experience from OpenStack. We're bringing all of that into OpenShift, our container based environment. With all of the tooling necessary to make that effective. >> It's interesting with all the automation going on and certainly with the edge developing nicely, the way you're describing it, it's certainly disrupting the telco cloud. You have an operator mindset a cloud-native operator thinking, kind of, I mean it's distributed computing. We know that, but it's hybrid. So it's essentially cloud operations. So there's an operator mindset here, that's just different. Could you just share quickly, before we move on to the next segment, what's different about this operating model, for the, these new kinds of operators. As, as you guys have been saying, the CIO is the new cloud operator. That's the skill set they have to be thinking. And certainly IT, to anyone else provisioning and managing infrastructure has to think like an operator, what's your view? >> Exactly. They certainly do need to think like an operator. They need to look at how they automate a lot of these functions, because they're actually deployed in many different places, all at the same time. They have to live independently of each other, that's what cloud-native actually really is. So the whole, the whole notion of five nines and vertically orientated stacks of five nines availability that's kind of going out the window. We're looking at application availability, across a hybrid cloud environment and making sure the application can live and sustain itself. So operators as part of OpenShift is one element of that, operations in terms of management and orchestration and all the tooling that we actually also provide as Red Hat, but also in conjunction with a big partner ecosystem, such as companies like Netcracker, for example, or IBM as another example. Or Ericsson bringing their automation tool sets and their orchestration tool sets, to that whole equation, to address exactly that problem. >> Yeah. You bring up the ecosystem and this is really an interesting point. I want to, just hit on that real quick, because it reminds me of the days, when we had this massive innovation wave in the nineties. During that era, the client server movement, really was about multi-vendor, right? And that, you start to see that now and where this ties into here I think, is and I want to get your reaction to this is that, you know, moving to the cloud was all about to 2015, moved to the cloud, move to the cloud, cloud-native. Now it's all about not only being agile and better performance, but you're going to have smaller footprints, with more security requirements, more net, enterprise requirements. This is now, it's more complicated. So you have to kind of make the complication go away. And now you have more people in the ecosystem, filling in these white spaces. So, you have to be performance and purpose built, if you will. I hate to use that word, but, or, or at least performing and agile, smaller footprint, greater security, enabling other people to participate. That's a requirement. Can you share your reactions to that? >> Well, that's core of what we do at Red Hat. I mean, we take open source community software, into a hardened distribution, fit for the telecommunications marketplace. So we're very adapt to working with communities and third parties. That ecosystem is really important to us. We're investing hundreds of engineers, literally hundreds of engineers, working with our ecosystem partners, to make sure that their application is services certified running on our platform. But also importantly, is certified to be running in conjunction with other cloud-native applications that sit under the same cloud. So that, that is not trivial to achieve, in any stretch of the imagination. And a lot of IT technology skills come to bear. And as you mentioned earlier a lot of networking skills, things that we've learned, and we build with a lot of these traditional vendors as we bring that to the marketplace. >> You know, I've been saying on theCube, I think five years ago, I started talking about this and it was kind of a loose formulation. I want to get your reaction, because you brought up ecosystem. Now saying, you know, you're going to see the big clouds develop obviously Amazon and Microsoft came in after and now Google and others. And then I said, there's going to be a huge wave of, of what I call secondary clouds. And you see companies, like Snowflake building on top of Amazon. And so you start to see the power law, of new cloud service providers emerging, that can either sit and work with, across multiple clouds, either one cloud or others, that's now multi-cloud and hybrid. But this rise of the new, more CSPs, more cloud service providers. This is a huge part of your area right now because some call that telco, telco cloud, edge hits that. What is Red Hat doing in this cloud service provider market specifically? How do you help them? If I'm a cloud service provider, what do I get in working with Red Hat? How do I be successful? Because it's very easy to be a cloud service provider now more than ever. What do I do? How do you help? How do you help me? >> Well, we, we, we offer a, a platform called OpenShift which is our containerized based platform, but it's not just a container. It involves huge amounts of tooling associated with operating it, developing in and around it. So the, the concept that we have, is that you can bring those applications, develop them once, on one, one single platform, and run it on premise. You can run it natively as a service in Microsoft's environment. You can actually run it natively as a service in Amazon's environment. You can run it natively in IBM's environment. You can build an application once and run it in all of them, depending on what you want to achieve and who actually provides you the best zoning, the best terms and conditions, the best, the best tooling in terms of other services, such as an AI, associated with that. So it's all about developing it once, certifying it once, but deploying it in many, many different locations, leveraging the largest possible developer ecosystem, to drive innovation through applications on that common platform. >> So the assumption there, is that's going to drive down costs. Can you tell me about why the benefits, the economics are there? Talk about the economics. >> Well, Yeah, so, so, A, it does drive down costs and that's an important aspect but more importantly, it drives up agility, so time to market advantage is actually attainable for you. So many of the telcos when they deploy a network service, traditionally it would take them literally, maybe a year to roll it all out. They have to do it in days, they have to do updates in real time, in day two operations, in literally minutes. So we were building the fabric necessary, in order to enable those applications and services to occur. And as you move into the edge of the network and you look at things like private 5G networks, service providers or telcos, in this instance, will be able to deliver services all the way out to the edge, into that private 5G environment and operate that, in conjunction with those enterprise clients. >> So OpenShift allows me if I get this right, from the CSP to run, have a horizontally scalable organization. Okay. And from a unification platform standpoint. Okay. Whether it's 5G and other functions, is that correct? >> Darrell: That's correct. >> Okay. So you've got that. Now I want to come in and bring in the top of the stack with the other element that's been been a big conversation here at Red Hat Summit and in the industry. That is AI and the use of data. One of the things that's emerging is the ability to have both the horizontal scale, as well as the specialism of the data and have that domain expertise. You're in the industries for Red Hat. This is important because you're going to have, one industry is going to have different jargon, different language, different data, different KPIs. So you got to have that domain expertise, to enable the ability, to, to write the apps and also enable AI. Can you comment on how that works and what's Red Hat do in there? >> So, so, so, we, we're developing OpenShift and a number of our, other technologies, to be fit for the edge of the network, where a lot of these AI applications will reside, because you want them at the closest to the client or the, or the application itself, where it needs to reside. We're, we're creating that edge fabric, if you like. The next generation of hybrid cloud is really going to be, in my view at the edge. We're enabling a lot of the service providers to go after that, but we're also igniting by industry. You mentioned different industries. So if I look at, for example, manufacturing with MindSphere, we recently announced with Siemens, how they do at the edge of the network, factory automation, collecting telemetry, doing real-time data and analytics, looking at materials going through the factory floor, in order to get a better quality result, with lower, lower levels of imperfections, as they run through that system. It's just one industry and they have, their own private and favorite AI platforms and data sets they want to work with. With their own data scientists who understand that, that, that ecosystem inherently. You can move that to healthcare. And you can imagine, you know, how you actually interface with your healthcare professionals here in North America, but also around the world. How those applications and services and what the AI needs to do, in terms of understanding x-rays and looking at, you know common errors associated with different x-rays, so, so our practitioner can make a more specific diagnosis, faster, saving money and potentially lives as well. So different, different vertical markets in this space, have different AI and ML requirements and needs, different data sciences and different data models. And what we're seeing is an ecosystem of companies, that are starting up there in that space, you know, we have Watson as part of IBM, but you have Perceptor Labs, you have H2O and a number of other, very very important AI based companies in that ecosystem. >> Yeah. And you've got the horizontal scalability of the control plane then in the platform, if you will, that gives us cross-organizational leverage and enable that, that vertical domain expertise. >> Exactly. And you'd want to build an AI application, that might run on a factory floor for certain reasons, it's location and what they're actually physically building. You might want to run that on premise. You might actually want to put it in the IBM cloud, or in Zuora or into AWS. You develop it once to OpenShift, you can deploy it in all of those as a service, sitting natively in those environments. >> Darrell, great chat. You got a lot going on. telco cloud, there is a lot of cloud-native disruption going on. It's a challenge and an opportunity. And some people have to be on the right side of history, on this one, if they're going to get it right. We'll know, and the scoreboard will be very clear, 'cause this is a shift, it's a shift. So again, you hit all the key points that I wanted to get out, but I want to ask you two more areas that are hot here at Red Hat Summit 21, as well, again as well in the industry. I want to get your reaction and thoughts on. And they are DevSecOps and automation. Okay. Two areas everyone's talking about, DevOps, which we know is infrastructure as code, programmability, under the hood, modern application development, all good. You add the second there, security, DevSecOps, it's critical. Automation is continuing to be the benefits of cloud-native. So DevSecOps and automation, what's your take, and how's that impact the telco world and your world? >> You can't, you can't operate a network without having security in place. You're talking about very sensitive data. You're talking about applications that could be real-time critical And this is actually, even lifesaving or life threatening, if you don't get them right. So the acquisition that Red Hat recently made around StackRox, really helps us, make that next level of transition into that space. And we're looking at about how we go about securing containers, in a cloud-native environment. As you can imagine, there'll be many many thousands, tens of thousands of containers running. If one is actually misbehaving for want of a better term, that creates a security risk and a security loophole. We're shoring that up. That's important for the deployment OpenShift in the telco domain and other domains. In terms of automation, if you can't do it at scale and if you look at 5G and you look at the radios at the edge of the network and how you're going to provision those services. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of nodes, hundreds of thousands. So you have to automate a lot of those processes, otherwise you can't scale to meet the opportunity. You can't physically deploy. >> You know, Darrell this is a great conversation, you know as a student of history and Dave Vellante and I always kind of joke about that. And you've been in and around the industry for a long time. Telcos have been balancing this evolution of digital business for many, many decades. And now with cloud-native, it's finally a time where you're startin' to see, that it's just the same game, now, new infrastructure. You know, video, voice, text, data, all now happening, all transformed and going digital, all the way, all aspects of it. In your opinion, how should telcos be thinking about, as they put their plans in place for next generation? Because you know, the world is, is now cloud-native. There's a huge surface here of opportunities, different ecosystem relationships. The power dynamics are shifting. It's, it's really a time where there will be winners and there will be losers. What's your, what's your view on on how the telco industry needs to Cloudify, and how to be positioned for success? >> So, so one of the things I, I truly believe very deeply, that the telcos need to create a platform, horizontal platform that attracts developer and ecosystems to their platform, because innovation is going to sit elsewhere. Then you know, there might be a killer application that one telco might create, but in reality, most of those innovations, the most of those disruptors are going to occur from outside of that telco company. So you want to create an environment, where you're easy to engage and you've got maximum sets of tools and versatility and agility in order to attract that innovation. If you attract the innovation, you're going to ignite the business opportunity that 5G and 6G and beyond is going to actually provide you, or enable your business to drive. And you've really got to unlock that innovation. And you can only unlock it, in our view at Red Hat innovation, if you're open. You know, you follow open standards, you're using open systems and open source, is a method or a tool, that you guys, if you're a telco I would ask, you guys need to leverage and harness. >> Yeah. And there's a lot. And there's a lot of upside there if you get that right. >> Yes. >> There's plenty of upside. A lot of leverage, a lot of assets, take advantage of the whole offline, online, coming back together. We are living in a hybrid world, certainly with the pandemic. We've seen what that means. It's put a spotlight, on critical infrastructure and the critical shifts. If you had to kind of get pinned down Darrell, how would you describe that learnings from the pandemic. As folks start to come out of the pandemic, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. As we come out of this pandemic, companies want a growth strategy. Want to be positioned for success. What's your learning coming out of the pandemic? >> So from, from my perspective, which really kind of in one respect was, was very admirable, but, in another respect is actually deeply, a lot of gratitude, is the fact that the telecommunications companies, because of their carrier grade capabilities and their operational prowess, were able to keep their networks up and running and they had to move significant capacity from major cities to rural areas, because everyone was working from home. And in many different countries around the world, they did that extremely, extremely well. And their networks held up. I don't know, and maybe someone will correct me and email me, but I don't know one telco had a huge network outage, through this pandemic. And that kept us connected. It kept us working. And it also, what I also learned is, that in certain countries, particularly Latam, where they have a very large prepaid market. They were worried that the prepaid market in the pandemic would go down, because they felt that people would have less money to spend. And therefore they wouldn't top up their phones as much. The opposite effect occurred. They saw prepaid grow. And that really taught me, that, that connectivity is critical, in times of stress, that we are also, where everyone's going through. So, I think there were some key learnings there. >> Yeah, I think you're right on the money there. It's like they pulled the curtain back of all the FUD and said, you know, necessity's the mother of invention. And when you look at what happened and what had to happen, to survive in the pandemic and be functional, you're, you nailed it. The network stability, the resilience, but also the new capabilities that were needed, had to be delivered in an agile way. And I think, you know, it's pretty much a forcing function, for all the projects that are on the table, to know which ones to double down on. So, I think you pretty much nailed it. >> Thank you. Darrell Jordan Smith, senior vice president of industries and global accounts for Red Hat, theCube alumni. Thanks for that insight. Thanks for sharing. Great conversation around telcos and telco clouds and all the edge opportunities. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. >> Okay. It's theCube's coverage of Red Hat Summit 21. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>mhm >>Yes, >>everyone welcome back to the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube, we've got a great segment here on how Red Hat is working with telcos and the disruption in the telco cloud. We've got a great guest cube alumni Darrell Jordan smith, senior vice president of industries and global accounts at Red Hat, uh Darryl, great to see you. Thanks for coming back on the cube. >>It's great to be here and I'm really excited about having the opportunity to talk to you >>today. Yeah, we're not in person in real life is coming back soon, although I hear mobile world congress might be in person this year looking like it's good a lot of people gonna be virtual activating. I know a lot to talk about this is probably one of the most important topics in the industry because when you talk about telco industry, you're really talking about um the edge, talking about five G talking about industrial benefits for business because it's not just Edge for connectivity access. We're talking about internet of things from self driving cars to business benefits. It's not just consumer, it's really bringing that together, you guys are really leading with the cloud native platform from rail, open shift men and services. Everything about the cloud native underpinnings you guys have been successful as a company but now in your area, telco is being disrupted. Absolutely. Give us your take on this is super exciting. >>Well, it's actually one of the most exciting times I've been in the industry for 30 years are probably aging myself now. But in the telecommunications industry, this, for me is the most exciting. It's where technology is actually going to visibly change the way that everyone interacts with the network and with the applications that are being developed out there on our platform and as you mentioned IOT and a number of the other ai and Ml innovations that are occurring in the market place. We're going to see a new wave of applications and innovation. >>What's the key delivery workloads you're seeing with Five G environment? Um, obviously it's not just, you know, five G in the sense of thinking about mobile phones or mobile computers as they are now. Um, it's not just that consumer, hey, surf the web and check your email and get an app and download and communicate. It's bigger than that. Now, can you tell us Where you see the workloads coming in on the 5G environment? >>You hit the nail on the head, The the the, the killer application isn't the user or the consumer and the way that we traditionally have known it, because you might be able to download a video in that take 20 seconds less, but you're not going to pay an awful lot more money for that. The real opportunity around five years, the industrial applications, things that I connected car, automotive, driving, um factory floor automation, how you actually interface digitally with your bank, how we're doing all sorts of things more intelligently at the edge of the network using artificial intelligence and machine learning. So all of those things are going to deliver a new experience for everyone that interacts with the network and the telcos are at the heart of it. >>You know, I want to get into the real kind of underpinnings of what's going on with the innovations happening. You just kind of laid out kind of the implications of the use cases and the target application workloads. But there's kind of two big things going on with the edge in five G one is under the hood, networking, you know, what's going on with the moving the packets around the workload, throughput, bandwidth etcetera, and all that goes on under the hood. And then there's the domain expertise in the data where AI and machine learning have to kind of weaving. So let's take the first part first. Um open shift is out there. Red hat's got a lot of products, but you have to nail the networking requirements and cloud Native with container ization because at large scales, not just packaged, it's all kinds of things going on security, managing a compute at the edge. There's a lot of things under the hood, if you will from a networking perspective, could you share what red hats doing in that area? >>So when we last spoke with the cube, we talked a lot about GMOs and actually people living Darryl, >>can I Cause you really quickly? I'm really sorry. Keep your answer in mind. We're gonna >>go right from that question. >>We're just kidding. Um, are you, is anything that you're >>using or touching running into the desk? We're just getting >>a little bit of shakiness on your camera >>and I don't want to. >>So anyway, >>that is my, my elbows. No worries. So no >>worries. Okay, so take your answer. I'll give you like a little >>321 from behind the scenes >>and and we'll go right as if >>john just ask >>the questions, we're gonna stay running. >>So I think, uh, >>can you ask the question just to get out of my mind? Perfect. Well let's, let's do >>from that. So we'll stay on your shot. So you'll hear john, but it'll be as if >>he just asked the question. So jOHn >>team up. Here we go. I'm just gonna just jimmy and just keep my other question on the okay, here we go. So Darryl, open shift is optimized for networking requirements for cloud native. It's complex into the hood. What is red hat doing under the hood to help in the edge in large complex networks for large scale. >>Yeah. So, so that's a very good question in that we've been building on our experience with open stack and the last time I was on the cube, I talked about, you know, people virtualizing network applications and network services. We're taking a lot of that knowledge that we've learned from open stack and we're bringing that into the container based world. So we're looking at how we accelerate packets. We're looking at how we build cloud native applications on bare metal in order to drive that level of performance. We're looking at actually how we do the certification around these applications and services because they may be sitting in different app lets across the cloud, but in some instances running on multiple clouds at the same time. So we're building on our experience from open stack, we're bringing all of that into open shipping, container based environment with all of the tallinn necessary to make that effective. >>It's interesting with all the automation going on. Certainly with the edge developing nicely the way you're describing it, certainly disrupting the Telco cloud, you have an operator mindset of cloud Native operator thinking, kind of, it's distributed computing, we know that, but it's hybrid. So it's essentially cloud operations. So there's an operator mindset here that's just different. Could you just share quickly before we move on to the next segment? What's different about this operating model for the, these new kinds of operators? As you guys been saying, the C I O is the new cloud operator, That's the skill set they have to be thinking and certainly to anyone else provisioning and managing infrastructure has to think like an operator, what's your >>view? They certainly do need anything like an operator. They need to look at how they automate a lot of these functions because they're actually deployed in many different places will at the same time they have to live independently of each other. That's what cloud native actually really is. So the whole, the whole notion of five nines and vertically orientated stacks of five nines availability that's kind of going out the window. We're looking at application availability across a hybrid cloud environment and making sure the application can live and sustain itself. So operators as part of open shift is one element of that operations in terms of management and orchestration and all the tooling that we actually also providers red hat but also in conjunction with a big partner ecosystem, such as companies like net cracker, for example, or IBM as another example or Erickson bringing their automation tool sets and their orchestration tool sets of that whole equation to address exactly that problem >>you bring up the ecosystem. And this is really an interesting point. I want to just hit on that real quick because reminds me of the days when we had this massive innovation wave in the nineties during that era. The client server movement really was about multi vendor, right. And that you're starting to see that now and where this ties into here I think is when we get your reaction to this is that, you know, moving to the cloud was all about 2 2015. Move to the cloud moved to the cloud cloud native. Now it's all about not only being agile and better performance, but you're gonna have smaller footprints with more security requires more enterprise requirements. This is now it's more complicated. So you have to kind of make the complications go away and now you have more people in the ecosystem filling in these white spaces. So you have to be performance and purpose built if you will. I hate to use that word, but or or at least performing an agile, smaller footprint grade security enabling other people to participate. That's a requirement. Can you share your reaction to that? >>Well, that's the core of what we do. A red hat. I mean we take open source community software into a hardened distribution fit for the telecommunications marketplace. So we're very adapt to working with communities and third parties. That ecosystem is really important to us. We're investing hundreds of engineers, literally hundreds of engineers working with our ecosystem partners to make sure that their applications services certified, running on our platform, but but also importantly is certified to be running in conjunction with other cloud native applications that sit over the same cloud. So that that is not trivial to achieve in any stretch of the imagination. And a lot of 80 technology skills come to bear. And as you mentioned earlier, a lot of networking skills, things that we've learned and we've built with a lot of these traditional vendors, we bring that to the marketplace. >>You know, I've been saying on the cube, I think five years ago I started talking about this, it was kind of a loose formulation, I want to get your reaction because you brought up ecosystem, you know, saying, you know, you're gonna see the big clouds develop out. The amazon Microsoft came in after and now google and others and I said there's gonna be a huge wave of of what I call secondary clouds and you see companies like snowflake building on on top of amazon and so you start to see the power law of new cloud service providers emerging that can either sit and work with across multiple clouds. Either one cloud or others that's now multi cloud and hybrid. But this rise of the new more C. S. P. S, more cloud service providers, this is a huge part of your area right now because some call that telco telco cloud edge hits that. What is red hat doing in this cloud service provider market specifically? How do you help them if I'm a cloud service provider, what do I get in working with Red Hat? How do I be successful because it's very easy to be a cloud service provider now more than ever. What do I do? How do you help? How do you help me? >>Well, we we we offer a platform called open shift which is a containerized based platform, but it's not just a container. It involves huge amounts of tooling associated with operating it, developing and around it. So the concept that we have is that you can bring those applications, developed them once on 11 single platform and run it on premise. You can run it natively as a service in Microsoft environment. You can actually run it natively as a service in amazon's environment. You can running natively on IBM's Environment. You can build an application once and run it in all of them depending on what you want to achieve, who actually provide you the best, owning the best terms and conditions the best, the best tooling in terms of other services such as Ai associated with that. So it's all about developing it once, certifying it once but deploying it in many, many different locations, leveraging the largest possible developing ecosystem to drive innovation through applications on that common platform. >>So assumption there is that's going to drive down costs. Can you why that benefits the economics are there? We talk about the economics. >>Yeah. So it does drive down costs a massive important aspect but more importantly it drives up agility. So time to market advantages actually attainable for you so many of the tell coast but they deploy a network service traditionally would take them literally maybe a year to roll it all out. They have to do it in days, they have to do updates in real time in data operations in literally minutes. So we were building the fabric necessary in order to enable those applications and services to occur. And as you move into the edge of the network and you look at things like private five G networks, service providers or telcos in this instance will be able to deliver services all the way out to the edge into that private five G environment and operate that in conjunction with those enterprise clients. >>So open shit allows me if I get this right on the CSP to run, have a horizontally scalable organization. Okay. From a unification platform standpoint. Okay, well it's 5G and other functions, is that correct? That's correct. Ok. So you've got that now, now I want to come in and bring in the top of the stack or the other element. That's been a big conversation here at Redhead Summit and in the industry that is A I and the use of data. One of the things that's emerging is the ability to have both the horizontal scale as well as the special is um of the data and have that domain expertise. Uh you're in the industries for red hat. This is important because you're gonna have one industry is going to have different jargon, different language, different data, different KPI S. So you've got to have that domain expertise to enable the ability to write the apps and also enable a I can, you know how that works and what were you doing there? >>So we're developing open shift and a number of other of our technologies to be fit for the edge of the network where a lot of these Ai applications will reside because you want them closer to the client or the the application itself where it needs to reside. We're creating that edge fabric, if you like. The next generation of hybrid cloud is really going to be, in my view at the edge we're enabling a lot of the service providers to go after that but we're also igniting by industry, You mentioned different industries. So if I look at, for example, manufacturing with mind sphere, we recently announced with Seaman's how they do at the edge of the network factory automation, collecting telemetry, doing real time data and analytics, looking at materials going through the factory floor in order to get a better quality results with lower, lower levels of imperfections as they run through that system and just one industry and they have their own private and favorite Ai platforms and data sets. They want to work with with their own data. Scientists who understand that that that ecosystem inherently you can move that to health care and you can imagine how you actually interface with your health care professionals here in north America, but also around the world, How those applications and services and what the Ai needs to do in terms of understanding x rays and looking at common errors associated with different x rays to. A practitioner can make a more specific diagnosis faster saving money and potentially lives as well. So different different vertical markets in this space have different AI and Ml requirements and needs different data science is different data models. And what we're seeing is an ecosystem of companies that are starting up there in that space that we have, what service part of IBM. But you have processed the labs of H T H 20 and a number of other very, very important AI based companies in that ecosystem. >>Yeah. And you get the horizontal scalability of the control plane and in the platform if you will, that gives you cross organizational leverage uh and enable that than vertical expertise. >>Exactly. And you want to build an Ai application that might run on a factory floor for for certain reasons to its location and what they're actually physically building. You might want to run their on premise, you might actually want to put it into IBM cloud or in Zur or into AWS, You develop, it wants to open shift, you can deploy it in all of those as a service sitting natively in those environments. >>Darrell, great chat. I got a lot going on telco cloud, There's a lot of cloud, native disruption going on. It's a challenge and an opportunity and some people have to be on the right side of history on this one if they're going to get it right. Well, no, and the scoreboard will be very clear because this is a shift, it's a shift. So again, you hit all the key points that I wanted to get out. But I want to ask you to more areas that are hot here at red hat summit 21 as well again and as well in the industry and get your reaction and thoughts on uh, and they are def sec ops and automation. Okay. Two areas. Everyone's talking about DEV ops which we know is infrastructure as code programming ability under the hood. Modern application development. All good. Yeah, the second their security to have sex shops. That's critical automation is continuing to be the benefits of cloud native. So Deb see cops and automation. What you're taking has that impact the telco world in your world. >>You can't you can't operate a network without having security in place. You're talking about very sensitive data. You're talking about applications that could be real time chris pickling mrs actually even life saving or life threatening if you don't get them right. So the acquisition that red hat recently made around stack rocks, really helps us make that next level of transition into that space. And we're looking about how we go about securing containers in a cloud native environment. As you can imagine, there will be many, many thousands tens of thousands of containers running if one is actually misbehaving for what one of a better term that creates a security risk in a security loophole. Were assuring that up that's important for the deployment, open shift in the Tokyo domain and other domains in terms of automation. If you can't do it at scale and if you look at five G and you look at the radios at the edge of the network and how you're gonna provision of those services. You're talking about hundreds of thousands of nodes, hundreds of thousands. You have to automate a lot of those processes, otherwise you can't scale to meet the opportunity, you can't physically deploy, >>you know, Darryl, this is a great conversation, you know, as a student of history and um development and I always kind of joke about that and you you've been around the industry for a long time. Telcos have been balancing this um evolution of digital business for many, many decades. Um and now with Cloud Native, it's finally a time where you're starting to see that it's just the same game now, new infrastructure, you know, video, voice, text data all now happening all transformed and going digital all the way, all aspects of it in your opinion. How should telcos be thinking about as they put their plans in place for next generation because you know, the world is now cloud Native. There's a huge surface here of opportunities, different ecosystem relationships, the power dynamics are shifting. It's it's really a time where there will be winners and there will be losers. What's your, what's your view on on how the telco industry needs to clarify and how they be positioned for success. >>So, so one of the things I truly believe very deeply that the telcos need to create a platform, horizontal platform that attracts developer and ecosystems to their platform because innovation is gonna sit elsewhere, then there might be a killer application that one telco might create. But in reality most of those innovations that most of those disruptors are going to occur from outside of that telco company. So you want to create an environment where you're easy to engage and you've got maximum sets of tools and versatility and agility in order to attract that innovation. If you attract the innovation, you're going to ignite the business opportunity that 5G and 60 and beyond is going to actually provide you or enable your business to drive. And you've really got to unlock that innovation and you can only unlock in our view, red hat innovation. If you're open, you follow open standards, you're using open systems and open source is a method or a tool that you guys, if you're a telco, I would ask you guys need to leverage and harness >>and there's a lot, there's a lot of upside there if you get that right, there's plenty of upside, a lot of leverage, a lot of assets to advantage the whole offline online. Coming back together, we are living in a hybrid world, certainly with the pandemic, we've seen what that means. It's put a spotlight on critical infrastructure and the critical shifts. If you had to kind of get pinned down Darryl, how would you describe that learnings from the pandemic as folks start to come out of the pandemic? There's a light at the end of the tunnel as we come out of this pandemic, companies want a growth strategy, wanna be positioned for success what you're learning coming out of the pandemic. >>So from my perspective, which really kind of 11 respect was was very admirable. But another respect is actually deeply uh a lot of gratitude is the fact that the telecommunications companies because of their carrier, great capabilities and their operational prowess were able to keep their networks up and running and they had to move significant capacity from major cities to rural areas because everyone was working from home and in many different countries around the world, they did that extremely and with extremely well. Um and their networks held up I don't know and maybe someone will correct me and email me but I don't know one telco had a huge network outage through this pandemic and that kept us connected. It kept us working. And it also what I also learned is that in certain countries, particularly at a time where they have a very large prepaid market, they were worried that the prepaid market in the pandemic would go down because they felt that people would have enough money to spend and therefore they wouldn't top up their phones as much. The opposite effect occurred. They saw prepaid grow and that really taught me that that connectivity is critical in times of stress that we're also everyone's going through. So I think there are some key learnings that >>yeah, I think you're right on the money there. It's like they pulled the curtain back of all the fun and said necessity is the mother of invention and when you look at what happened and what had to happen to survive in the pandemic and be functional. Your, you nailed it, the network stability, the resilience, but also the new capabilities that were needed had to be delivered in an agile way. And I think, you know, it's pretty much the forcing function for all the projects that are on the table to know which ones to double down on. So I think you pretty much nailed it. Darrell Jordan smith, senior vice president of industries and global accounts for red hat kibble, unnatural. Thanks for that insight. Thanks for sharing great conversation around telcos and telco clouds and all the edge opportunities. Thanks for coming on. >>Thank you john >>Okay. It's the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 21. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm mhm

>> Male's Voice: From around the globe, its theCUBE. With digital coverage of a special announcement, brought to you by Nutanix. (soft music) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman. And welcome to this special announcement for Nutanix, about some new product releases in the public cloud. To help us kick this off for the Asia Pacific and Japan region. Happy to welcome to the program Jordan Reizes, who's the vice president of marketing, for APJ and Nutanix. Jordan, help us introduce it. Thanks Stu. So today we're really pleased to announce Nutanix Clusters, availability in Asia Pacific and Japan, at the same time as the rest of the world. And we think this technology is really important to our geographically dispersed customers, all across the region, in terms of helping them, On-Ramp to the cloud. So, we're really excited about this launch today. And Stu, I can't wait to see the rest of the program. And make sure you stay tuned at the end, for our interview with our CTO, Justin Hurst. Who's going to be answering a bunch of questions that are really specific to the APJ region. >> All right, thank you so much Jordan, for helping us kick this off. We're now going to cut over to my interview with Monica and Tarkan, with the news.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this a CUBE conversation. >> Hello, and welcome to this CUBE conversation, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here, in our Palo Alto, California studios, here with our quarantine crew. We're getting all the remote interviews during this time of COVID-19. We've got two great remote guests here, Rachini Moosavi who's the Executive Director of Analytical Services and Data Governance at UNC Healthcare, and Sonya Jordan, Enterprise Analytics Manager of Data Governance at UNC Health. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having us. >> So, I'm super excited. University of North Carolina, my daughter will be a freshman this year, and she is coming, so hopefully she won't have to visit UNC Health, but looking forward to having more visits down there, it's a great place. So, thanks for coming on, really appreciate it. Okay, so the conversation today is going to be about how data and how analytics are helping solve problems, and ultimately, in your case, serve the community, and this is a super important conversation. So, before we get started, talk about UNC Health, what's going on there, how you guys organize, how big is it, what are some of the challenges that you have? >> SO UNC Health is comprised of about 12 different entities within our hospital system. We have physician groups as well as hospitals, and we serve, we're spread throughout all of North Carolina, and so we serve the patients of North Carolina, and that is our primary focus and responsibility for our mission. As part of the offices Sonya and I are in, we are in the Enterprise Analytics and Data Sciences Office that serves all of those entities and so we are centrally located in the triangle area of North Carolina, which is pretty central to the state, and we serve all of our entities equally from our Analytics and Data Governance needs. >> John: You guys got a different customer base, obviously you've got the clinical support, and you got the business applications, you got to be agile, that's what it's all about today, you don't need to rely on IT support. How do you guys do that? What's the framework? How do you guys tackle that problem of being agile, having the data be available, and you got two different customers, you got all the compliance issues with clinical, I can only imagine all the regulations involved, and you've got the business applications. How do you handle those? >> Yeah, so for us in the roles that we are in, we are fully responsible for more of the data and analytics needs of the organization, and so we provide services that truly are balanced across our clinician group, so we have physicians, and nurses, and all of the other ancillary clinical staff that we support, as well as the operational needs as well, so revenue cycle, finance, pharmacy, any of those groups that are required in order to run a healthcare system. So, we balance our time amongst all of those and for the work that we take on and how we continuously support them is really based on governance at the end of the day. How we make decisions around what the priorities are and what needs to happen next, and requires the best insights, is really how we focus on what work we do next. As for the applications that we build, in our office, we truly only build analytical applications or products like visualizations within Tableau as well as we support data governance platforms and services and so we provide some of the tools that enable our end users to be able to interact with the information that we're providing around analytics and insights, at the end of the day. >> Sonya, what's your job? Your title is Analytics Manager of Data Governance, obviously that sounds broad but governance is obviously required in all things. What is your job, what is your day-to-day roles like? What's your focus? >> Well, my day-to-day operations is first around building a data governance program. I try to work with identifying customers who we can start partnering with so that we can start getting documentation and utilizing a lot of the programs that we currently have, such as certification, so when we talk about initiatives, this is one of the initiatives that we use to partner with our stakeholders in order to start bringing visibilities to the various assets, such as metrics, or universes that we want to certify, or dashboards, algorithm, just various lists of different types of assets that we certify that we like to partner with the customers in order for them to start documenting within the tools, so that we can bring visibility to what's available, really focusing on data literacy, helping people to understand what assets are available, not only what assets are available, but who owns them, and who own the asset, and what can they do with it, making sure that we have great documentation in order to be able to leverage literacy as well. >> So, I can only imagine with how much volume you guys are dealing from a data standpoint, and the diversity, that the data warehouse must be massive, or it must be architected in a way that it can be agile because the needs, of the diverse needs. Can you guys share your thoughts on how you guys look on the data warehouse challenge and opportunity, and what you guys are currently doing? >> Well, so- >> Yeah you go ahead, Rachini. >> Go ahead, Sonya. >> Well, last year we implemented a tool, an enterprise warehouse, basically behind a tool that we implemented, and that was an opportunity for Data Governance to really lay some foundation and really bring visibility to the work that we could provide for the enterprise. We were able to embed into probably about six or seven of the 13 initiatives, I was actually within that project, and with that we were able to develop our stewardship committee, our data governance council, and because Rachini managed Data Solutions, our data solution manager was able to really help with the architect and integration of the tools. >> Rachini, your thoughts on running the data warehouse, because you've got to have flexibility for new types of data sources. How do you look at that? >> So, as Sonya just mentioned, we upgraded our data warehouse platform just recently because of these evolving needs, and like a lot of healthcare providers out there, a lot of them are either one or the other EMRs that are top in the market. With our EMR, they provide their own data warehouse, so you have to factor almost the impact of what they bring to the table in with an addition to all of those other sources of data that you're trying to co-mingle and bring together into the same data warehouse, and so for us, it was time for us to evolve our data warehouse. We ended up deciding on trying to create a virtual data warehouse, and in doing so, with virtualization, we had to upgrade our platform, which is what created that opportunity that Sonya was mentioning. And by moving to this new platform we are now able to bring all of that into one space and it's enabled us to think about how does the community of analysts interact with the data? How do we make that available to them in a secure way? In a way that they can take advantage of reusable master data files that could be our source of truth within our data warehouse, while also being able to have the flexibility to build what they need in their own functional spaces so that they can get the wealth of information that they need out of the same source and it's available to everyone. >> Okay, so I got to ask the question, and I was trying to get the good stuff out first, but let's get at the reality of COVID-19. You got pre-COVID-19 pandemic, we're kind of in the middle of it, and people are looking at strategies to come out of it, obviously the world will be changed, higher with a lot of virtualization, virtual meetings, and virtual workforce, but the data still needs to be, the business still needs to run, but data will be changing different sources, how are you guys responding to that crisis because you're going to be leaned on heavily for more and more support? >> Yeah it's been non-stop since March (laughs). So, I'm going to tell you about the reporting aspects of it, and then I'd love to turn it over to Sonya to tell you about some of the great things that we've actually been able to do to it and enhance our data governance program by not wasting this terrible event and this opportunity that's come up. So, with COVID, when it kicked off back in March, we actually formed a war room to address the needs around reporting analytics and just insights that our executives needed, and so in doing so, we created within the first week, our first weekend actually, our first dashboard, and within the next two weeks we had about eight or nine other dashboards that were available. And we continuously add to that. Information is so critical to our executives, to our clinicians, to be able to know how to address the evolving needs of COVID-19 and how we need to respond. We literally, and I'm not even exaggerating, at this very moment we have probably, let's see, I think it's seven different forecasts that we're trying to build all at the same time to try and help us prepare for this new recovery, this sort of ramp up efforts, so to your point, it started off as we're shutting down so that we can flatten the curve, but now as we try to also reopen at the same time while we're still meeting the needs of our COVID patients, there's this balancing act that we're trying to keep up with and so analytics is playing a critical factor in doing that. >> Sonya, your thoughts. First of all, congratulations, and action is what defines the players from the pretenders in my mind, you're seeing that play out, so congratulations for taking great action, I know you're working hard. Sonya, your thoughts, COVID, it's putting a lot of pressure? It highlights the weaknesses and strengths of what's kind of out there, what's your thoughts? >> Well, it just requires a great deal of collaboration and making sure that you're documenting metrics in a way where you're factoring true definition because at the end of the day, this information can go into a dashboard that's going to be visualized across the organization, I think what COVID has done was really enhanced the need and the understanding of why data governance is important and also it has allowed us to create a lot of standardization, where we we're standardizing a lot of processes that we currently had in correct place but just enhancing them. >> You know, not to go on a tangent, but I will, it's funny how the reality has kind of pulled back, exposed a lot of things, whether it's the remote work situation, people are VPNing, not under provision with the IT side. On the data side, everyone now understands the quality of the data. I mean, I got my kids talking progression analysis, "Oh, the curves are all wrong," I mean people are now seeing the science behind the data and they're looking at graphs all the time, you guys are in the visualization piece, this really highlights the need of data as a story, because there's an impact, and two, quality data. And if you don't have the data, the story isn't being told and then misinformation comes out of it, and this is actually playing out in real time, so it's not like it's just a use case for the most analytics but this again highlights the value of proposition of what you guys do. What's your personal thoughts on all this because this really is playing out globally. >> Yeah, it's been amazing how much information is out there. So, we have been extremely blessed at times but also burdened at times by that amount of information. So, there's the data that's going through our healthcare system that we're trying to manage and wrangle and do that data storytelling so that people can drive those insights to very effective decisions. But there's also all of this external data that we're trying to be able to leverage as well. And this is where the whole sharing of information can sometimes become really hard to try and get ahead of, we leverage the Johns Hopkins data for some time, but even that, too, can have some hiccups in terms of what's available. We try to use our State Department of Health and Human Services data and they just about updated their website and how information was being shared every other week and it was making it impossible for us to ingest that into our dashboards that we were providing, and so there's really great opportunities but also risks in some of the information that we're pulling. >> Sonya, what's your thoughts? I was just having a conversation this morning with the Chief of Analytics and Insight from NOA which is the National Oceanic Administration, about weather data and forecasting weather, and they've got this community model where they're trying to get the edges to kind of come in, this teases out a template. You guys have multiple locations. As you get more democratized in the connection points, whether it's third-party data, having a system managing that is hard, and again, this is a new trend that's emerging, this community connection points, where I think you guys might also might be a template, and your multiple locations, what's your general thoughts on that because the data's coming in, it's now connected in, whether it's first-party to the healthcare system or third-party. >> Yeah, well we have been leveraging our data governance tool to try to get that centralized location, making sure that we obtain the documentations. Due to COVID, everything is moving very fast, so it requires us to really sit down and capture the information and when you don't have enough resources in order to do that, it's easy to miss some very important information, so really trying to encourage people to understand the reason why we have data governance tools in order for them to leverage, in order to capture the documentation in a way that it can tell the story about the data, but most of all, to be able to capture it in a way so that if that person happened to leave the organization, we're not spending a lot of time trying to figure out how was this information created, how was this dashboard designed, where are the requirements, where are the specifications, where are the key elements, where does that information live, and making sure we capture that up front. >> So, guys, you guys are using Informatica, how are they helping you? Obviously, they have a system they're getting some great feedback on, how are you using Informatica, how is it going, and how has that enabled you guys to be successful? >> Yeah, so we decided on Informatica after doing a really thorough vetting of all of the other vendors in the industry that could provide us these services. We've really loved the capabilities that we've been able to provide to our customers at this point. It's evolving, I think, for us, the ability to partner with a group like Prominence, to be able to really leverage the capabilities of Informatica and then be really super, super hyper focused on providing data literacy back to our end users and making that the full intent of what we're doing within data governance has really enabled us to take the tools and make it something that's specific to UNC Health and the needs that our end users are verbalizing and provide that to them in a very positive way. >> Sonya, they talk about this master catalog, and I've talked to the CEO of Informatica and all their leaders, governance is a big part of it, and I've always said, I've always kind of had a hard time, I'm an entrepreneur, I like to innovate, move fast, break things, which is kind of not the way you work in the data world, you don't want to be breaking anything, so how do you balance governance and compliance with innovation? This has been a key topic and I know that you guys are using their enterprise data catolog. Is that helping? How does that fit in, is that part of it? >> Well, yeah, so during our COVID initiatives and building these telos dashboards, these visualizations and forecast models for executive leaders, we were able to document and EMPower you, which we rebranded Axon to EMPower, we were able to document a lot of our dashboards, which is a data set, and pretty much document attributes and show lineage from EMPower to EDC, so that users would know exactly when they start looking at the visualization not only what does this information mean, but they're also able to see what other sources that that information impacts as well as the data lineage, where did the information come from in EDC. >> So I got to ask the question to kind of wrap things up, has Informatica helped you guys out now that you're in this crisis? Obviously you've implemented before, now that you're in the middle of it, have you seen any things that jumped out at you that's been helpful, and are there areas that need to be worked on so that you guys continue to fight the good fight, come out of this thing stronger than before you came in? >> Yeah, there is a lot of new information, what we consider as "aha" moments that we've been learning about, and how EMPower, yes there's definitely a learning curve because we implemented EDC and EMPower last year doing our warehouse implementation, and so there's a lot of work that still needs to be done, but based on where we were the first of the year, I can say we have evolved tremendously due to a lot of the pandemic issues that arised, and we're looking to really evolve even greater, and pilot across the entire organization so that they can start leveraging these tools for their needs. >> Rachini you got any thoughts on your end on what's worked, what you see improvements coming, anything to share? >> Yeah, so we're excited about some of the new capabilities like the marketplace for example that's available in Axon, we're looking forward to being able to take advantage of some of these great new aspects of the tool so that we can really focus more on providing those insights back to our end users. I think for us, during COVID, it's really been about how do we take advantage of the immediate needs that are surfacing. How do we build all of these dashboards in record-breaking time but also make sure that folks understand exactly what's being represented within those dashboards, and so being able to provide that through our Informatica tools and service it back to our end users, almost in a seamless way like it's built into our dashboards, has been a really critical factor for us, and feeling like we can provide that level of transparency, and so I think that's where as we evolve that we would look for more opportunities, too. How do we make it simple for people to get that immediate answers to their questions, of what does the information need without it feeling like they're going elsewhere for the information. >> Rachini, thank you so much for your insight, Sonya as well, thanks for the insight, and stay safe. Sonya, behind you, I was pointing out, that's your artwork, you painted that picture. >> Yes. >> Looks beautiful. >> Yes, I did. >> You got two jobs, you're an artist, and you're doing data governance. >> Yes, I am, and I enjoy painting, that's how I relax (laughs). >> Looks great, get that on the market soon, get that on the marketplace, let's get that going. Appreciate the time, thank you so much for the insights, and stay safe and again, congratulations on the hard work you're doing, I know there's still a lot more to do, thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> It's theCUBE conversation, I'm John Furrier at the Palo Alto studios, for the remote interviews with Informatica, I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>Yeah. >>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM. Think Digital 2020. This is the Cube, and we're really excited to have two great guests on Michael Jordan is the distinguished engineer with IBM Z Security. Michael, good to see you again. Welcome back. >>Thank you. It's good to be back. >>And, Matt, what Born is the program director and offering lead for Z 15. Good to see that. >>Thank you for having me, >>guys. Easy. Easy is a good place to be. Great corner, 61% growth. You got to love it. Regulations. It'll be feeling pretty good. I mean, other than what we're going through. But from a business standpoint, Z powered through, didn't it? >>It did. I mean, we're really pleased with the contribution that Z continues to make for our clients. Especially right now, given everything that's going on, business continuity, scale, resilient security. They're just so important for our clients in the platform. >>Yes. So we're gonna We're gonna talk a lot about this. Maybe Matt could start with you just in terms of, you know, you talk about. Ah, cyber resiliency. Hear that a lot? Um, e I think it may be. Means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. What does it mean? Busy? >>Yeah, for us. I mean, you know, we kind of start in many ways with, like that, this definition on that which talks about the ability to anticipate, withstand, recover, adapt all of these adverse conditions, might face or stresses compromises in attacks in your systems and your just cyber results. It's so it's a really important top of mind talking point from other clients who are thinking about this both from, I guess, the resilience when it comes to the systems and also the data as well. From our standpoint, you know, Z has been at the forefront of resilience for many, many generations. Now, whether that's the scale that systems we're able to provide, the ability to tap into more capacity is needed, whether on a temporary or permanent basis, cause you never know when a when a spike might be occurring on day, especially with clients going through digital transformation as well. The fact that we can talk about solutions being designed for seven nines of availability on. But the reason why clients like Tesco or alliances for their resilient banking platform or Department of Treasury in Puerto Rico depend on us or for a highly available solution. So it's never been more important for by us. >>So, Michael, from a technical standpoint, um, I mean, I go back to the rack f days and and I I used to ask, why is it that, you know, the mainframe had, you know, such good security, and it was explained to me years ago? Well, cause you knew everything that went on who touched what? You know, there was a clear understanding of that clear visibility of that. Um, but maybe you could explain just for laypeople from just from a technical standpoint. Why is it that Z has such strong cyber resiliency? >>Sure. So So some of it, I think, is there's 22 aspects that I want to mention first is, you know, culture, right? You know, the IBM Z, you know, development team and broader, you know, design team. We have in our culture to build systems that are secure and robust, that that's kind of part of our DNA. And so it's that mindset when you look at, you know, technologies like parallel system, flex and geographic geographically dispersed, parallel, parallel suspects, GPS. You know, those are ingrained in those technologies, but the other capability that we have or I should say, um, you know, benefit that we we have is we own the whole stack, right? We own, you know, the hardware we own the firmware, um, and we own the software that sits on top of there in the middle, where and so whether it's resiliency or whether it's security when we want to design and build solutions, you know, to make optimal solutions, you know any of those spaces we can actually design and architect the solutions, you know, both at the right point in the stack and across the stack as needed to really deliver on these capabilities. >>So, Matt, one of our partners, ET are holds these CEO roundtables, and one of the CEO said we really weren't ready from a resiliency standpoint. We're too focused on on er and kind of missed the boat on business continuity to narrow focus. I presume you're hearing a lot of that these days. I wonder if you could just tell us about some of the things that you're seeing with clients, Maybe the conversations you're having and how you're helping Sort of broaden that capability. >>Yeah, sure. I mean, to your point. I mean, nobody really could have quite predicted. You know what we're dealing with right now, but, you know, we have had over many generations of the Z platform, you know, clients deeply partnered with us to try and make sure they have a a highly available environment for business continuity. And, you know, just thinking about things from a Dell perspective. You know what they can do to fortify and make their solution sort of more resilient on the day by day basis. I mean, one of the things you might be talking about, some of the inherent capabilities we have a hassle. The fact that we build, you know, our systems with the additional capacity kind of baked in. Which means that for so many of our clients, you know, in the first in the first quarter, where they were seeing the huge amounts of peak workload kind of coming in, that they needed to be able to deal with the fact that we design our systems to be able to just kind of gobble up that work. With that we call dark capacity to be turned on at the drop of a hat. It's tremendously important because not only need to be offsite, just resilient in terms of the applications, but you need to get a deal with growth. You're going through that. The other aspect, which is a new capability with the 15 that kind of builds on what we could do with that dark past thing is this concept of instant recovery. But what we're actually helping clients do there in terms of fortifying and making their environment more resilient, is letting them attack into that dark capacity when they're going through restart activities of partitions, not just thinking about unplanned scenarios, but actually planned out just as well. So what that really helps with is because you always have to do planned maintenance. You know, when your systems, you know when you're partitions your your system because the environment. So what we're doing is saying when you're going through that restart sort of process, whether it's the shutdown, whether it's to bring up of the partition or the middleware or even in fact, actually helping you catch up. Kind of for what? You what you lost one weren't sort of processing workflow. We turn on that extra capacity in the system automatically for this boost window that were that we're helping our clients with. Not only we do that. Mike's point about owning a stack means that we can deliver that in a way that there's no increase in IBM software cost a reliever. So we're always kind of looking about what we can do to kind of move the ball forward to make a client's environment even more resilient as well. >>I've always, I learned from my mainframe days many, many years ago. And what when a vendor comes in and shows a new product, they always ask you what happens when something goes wrong? It's all about recovery that's always been one of the main frame strength. Mike, I want to ask you about data protection. I mean, it's a topic that again means a lot of things to a lot of people you know doesn't mean backup. There's data privacy. There's data Providence. There's data sovereignty. We talk about data protection from a Z prism. >>Sure, so So our point of view on data protection is is we view it as a as a multi layered proposition. It's not. It's not just one thing. In effect, we viewed the lens of a broader, you know, layered cybersecurity strategy where you know, data protection. And, you know, in this case, you know, talking about encryption and being another encrypt data on a massive scale is the foundation for, you know, a layered cyber security strategy, um, and providing capabilities for appliance. Do you protect data at the disk level with the 15? We also introduced the ability of actually being able to protect the data as it flows through their storage area network through something we call fibre channel endpoint security and then layering on top of that, you know, host based encryption capabilities, you know, in the operating system, whether it's, you know, buy or or data set level encryption and you know, then on top of that, they can layer additional capabilities for things like multi factor authentication to protect your privileged identities from being compromised or being able to do damage to your system and then, you know, building and layering. On top of that things like security, intelligence and being able to monitor and understand You know what, what's happening across the system. >>So I was talking with Developer the other day in cloud app pretty, you know, non mission critical. But ask them to use encryption and he said, Yeah, we could, but we don't cause it slows us down a little bit. So I'm wondering how you deal with that trade off performance versus Protection Z. How does he deal with that? >>Sure, So that's that. That's a great That's a great question. And that actually goes back to you know what we did with with our Z 14 so that the generation before and I think we've we've improved that with with the 15 and then I'll get to that in a bit. But one of the barriers that we recognized is exactly what you said is the You know, the cost of doing encryption is prohibitive, Um, and what we did is we have, ah, a cryptographic accelerator that's integrated into our micro processor that's capable of encrypting so each or it's capable of encrypting up to 14 gigabytes of data per second. And if you multiply that by the number of cores that you have. You know, a fully configured you nosy 15 met. What does it have any cores? Do we have in that 100 >>90 with >>190 So So do the math right? 190 times, you know, 14 gigabytes per second. It's an encryption powerhouse, and that can all be done synchronously with extremely low latency. So we have the horsepower to do encryption on a very broad scale with very, very low overhead. And that's what our clients are leveraging and taking advantage of. And with the Zy 15. That being we announced it and made available last year. We actually have now compression that's built into the micro processor so you can actually compress the data, Um, first and then encrypted. And there's a twofold benefits that first is now. I have less data to encrypt, so I have lowered my encryption overhead, and at the same time I've managed to preserve my storage efficiency. So it's a It's a twofold benefit there, >>you know. People talk off about Z, they talk about it, it's open. It's kind of all started back when you guys brought in Lennox. And now, of course, it's It's much more than that. Um, but I'm wondering how open plays into this notion of cyber resiliency in some respects there. Counter poised. But But how do you sort of square that circle for me? >>Yeah, I mean, it's kind of look at it is when it comes to openness and digital transformation, it's kind of doing it without compromise on. That's kind of the way I look at the Z platform because you're right. I mean the fact that we have the likes of open shift support on the seat platform or you can use, you know, answerable for for doing automation. I mean, were always looking to try and make sure that we support from A from a management standpoint or development standpoint. We'll use whichever tool frameworks languages are appropriate on the platform and integrated to a hyper cloud wherever you want to go. That's why when we look at it from the perspective of what it really means to have mission critical applications and why, it's why that is the key point about banks. Insurance companies, etcetera continue to trust. Z is there is the home for their system of record because they want to get the benefits. You know, the best of both worlds. So they want to be able to have the security, the resilience and the scale of the platform. But the same time they want to have flexibility to be able to use cloud native technologies to be able to deploy them on our platform. And then this micro sort of talking about the exciting thing for us is even going one step further. That says, if you do want your data to move around your hybrid cloud for very good reasons for certain scenarios, being able to have that capability to protect the data, not just encrypted that manage the privacy over the data as it flows out and see to kind of take those characteristics into the hybrid cloud is something that a lot of that clients been really, really excited to take advantage of it. It's >>about this conference. You might get certain >>charting Matt into a security guide. You see that? >>Yeah, >>I think everybody's got to be a security person these days. I want to ask about zero trust. You know, that term is thrown around a lot of, uh, you know, you can get kind of buzz, wordy. You see, people always have substance. I want to ask you guys what zero trust means the Io. >>So So I think there's, you know, my view of zeros where we're at from an industry from from zero. Trust is is very similar to where we're at with cloud, you know, going back a handful of years where if you ask 10 different people what you know, cloud was you get 10 different answers. Um, and none of them were probably wrong. And so I think, you know, we're very similar state in terms of our understanding and, you know, market maturity around zero trust. But there's, you know, at its for, you know, the the the The idea is, you know, we've been focused on protecting, you know, our environments using a castle and moat of approach. Um, and, you know, you know, protecting the perimeter. Yeah, and then trusting everything inside of inside of that. You know that that mode, if you will, um and what the zero trust is a recognition that that's not sufficient. And, you know, and then if you look at that in the context of our evolving and changing in environment and moving to hybrid multi clouds where, um, the notion of a perimeter is gone. You know that that strategy and approach for protection, it doesn't hold up. And so we need to evolve that, um And we need to have, you know, you know, move from the notion of, um, operational trust to a notion of technical trust and building, you know, building more sophisticated mechanisms for doing authentication, understanding broader what's happening across the environment and feeding that into, you know, decisions that are made in terms of who gets to access. What data. So, >>yeah, good, Matt, bring us home overnight. You know, this pandemic has really heightened our awareness of cyber resiliency. Business continuity have changed our our mindset and definition of those two things. But give us your final thoughts on this top. >>I think it's probably just been into sharp focus, really what? It what it means to have mission critical applications that are right at the heart of your of your business. And, you know, you come to realize very quickly. But if those services are not available to your clients, I mean it can have such a long lasting implications So I think people embittering you know their strategy when it comes to, you know, millions off applications with infrastructure and all of that in the context of business continuity, I think people are gonna gonna have a much sharper focus in the future to really see, you know, what is what does it mean? And it's the lifeblood of their business is not able todo operate and serve their clients. And probably as well, more and more applications that maybe weren't considered mission critical in the past will be considered mission critical now because it's not just the back end services, but it's the way the community a reply. It's so a lot of that, I think, is going to play out the way that people think about their business continuity strategy in the future. >>Yeah, you're right. Video conferencing has become mission critical, isn't it? Guys, thanks so much for coming on the Cube again. You know, keep up the good work. Uh, I really appreciate your time and your insights. Always, always great talking, talking Z. So thanks again. >>Thank you. >>All right. Thank you for watching. Everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. Our wall to wall coverage of the think 2020 digital event experience. Keep right there. Right back after this short break. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's TheCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Moscone North at IBM Think 2019 I'm Stu Miniman, and my cohost for this segment is Dave Vellante. Happy to welcome two IBMers from the Z Group, we have Michael Jordan, distinguished engineer, everybody I'm sure in your family calls you the Michael Jordan? >> Nah, no, no >> Not the other one? >> I won't get into what they call me. >> Rohit Badlaney, who's a director of IBM Z as a service. So Rohit, we have to start there. We're very familiar with Z, you know, all the different pieces of it, but Z as a service, something new for this week, maybe help explain what the news is and-- >> Absolutely, so my mission in life is around Z and cloud. And this week you heard Jenny talk about Hyper Protect, and Hyper Protect is a family of services built in our IBM Cloud, on a cloud-ready systems, which are the ZR1 systems, in a multi-zone platform factor, so it provides the high availability disaster recovery. There are really four key services that we're announcing at this conference. One's around crypto and key management, provides the highest levels of security for our cloud. The second's around data as a service, which does traditionally really well on the platform, as a data-serving platform. The third's virtual servers, the fourth's containers that's going to be tied in to our Kubernetes Service. So we're bringing the breadth of our Z to our cloud. >> Yeah, you know, Michael, I show my age in the industry, I remember when we talked about security was, you know, lock the door on that rack that was in, or that mainframe that sat in the corner, we knew that that was secure. It's a little bit different when we talk about security and Z these days, it's cloud, it's global, >> Sure. >> It's all over the place. >> So-- >> But in fairness, right, I mean RACF was the gold standard of security, you know, before all this distributed systems stuff. You knew, you had full visibility on who did what, when, where, you know, very very detailed. Have you been able to carry that level of transparency and rigor into the cloud? >> Yeah, so some of this is what's old is new again, so one of the key areas that is a big focus for security in the cloud is encryption, right? You know encryption is going to a central part of being able to move data to the cloud, and the concepts of being able to bring your own key, is absolutely essential, and some of the capabilities that we've had on the Z platform for a very long time actually lend themselves extremely well to a cloud environment so for example, our cryptographic hardware can be virtualized, right? So each server can have 16 cryptographic cards, with 85 virtual domains per card, so you multiply that out it's, really serves cloud scale very well. And in addition to that, the cryptographic hardware is designed to meet the highest level of security certification standards, so a combination of security, and that virtualization really lends itself to offering a set of cloud services. >> If I think about the workloads that are running on Z, clearly there's no business case to move them off Z, into some commodity cloud, that would make no sense. You'd put your business at risk if you did that. But what's the business case of Hyper Protect, and Z as a service, could you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, so today our focus is primarily to elevate the security of our core and our cloud. If you look at what we are doing, it's around our Linux systems and not our traditional z/OS systems, and we're really focusing on where Z differentiates. It's around, you know Mike talked about key management, and key protection. It's around data protection, it's around scale. So the workloads, to your point, that do really well on the platform, are workloads that need that level of infrastructure characteristics. And it's not a well-known fact, but actually our Blockchain platform, and all the success IBM's had on Blockchain, has been running in our cloud, on our Z systems, over the last two years with 500 plus clients. Right, so those are the kind of workloads that benefit from the hardware characteristics, as well as the security characteristics. >> Just double-click on that, so you think Blockchain, often times you're thinking about distributed apps, you know, you think about transaction limits, et cetera et cetera, so what are the attributes of Z that lend itself well to those workloads? >> Oh that's a great question, so, several attributes, right? Definitely the key protection, and the data protection on Z, the sheer TPS, you know it's funny, I was actually with our BC doing a session today, and they were talking about the transaction per second they get by just running on Z versus commodity hardware. And they've had tremendous success, right? So those two, combined with you know, our Blockchain technology in our cloud runs on something called a Secure Services Container, which is an absolutely locked down container that no one can get access to. And those are the characteristics that, if you think about permissioned blockchain, that's where Z excels. So that's. >> One of the discussions we've been having is that, in a multi-cloud world I have different skillsets for the different environments. Can you give me a little compare/contrast how security fits in Z versus you know, x86, Linux, and public clouds? And also, how do I, as a customer, manage across those environments from a security standpoint? >> Sure, so a couple points on there. You know, one is, one of the benefits that we have with Z is we control a large portion of the stack, right? So we're able to integrate security into multiple layers of the stack. So Rohit mentioned the Secure Service Container, and that combines a number of capabilities that we've built in from the hardware, the firmware, the operating system, end to end. So for example, the Secure Service Container by default, all of the code and data associated with with one of these Secure Service Containers is encrypted. You don't have to do anything, it's, you deploy an application in of these containers, everything gets encrypted, in flight and at rest. And there's no configuration, no set up for that, it happens automatically. We validate, digitally sign and validate all of the firmware, the operating system, the application, and the entire package that gets loaded into one of these environments, to protect against introducing malware to that environment, and lastly is we block and restrict administrative access to prevent administrators from having uncontrolled access to the file system. So looking at that, right, since we own that stack and we can really integrate those security capabilities vertically through that stack to give the true value and the capabilities that you need in the cloud to protect both the application and the data. >> And that's always been the strength of the mainframe, is like you said, security's not a bolt-on, it's designed in from the very beginning. I mean when I started in the business, whatever IBM did with the 390, or whatever it was at the time-- >> You're dating yourself. >> Yeah, that's true. But the whole industry would focus on that. And then, frankly, IBM in the early '90s kind of lost it's way because it had that sort of install base, and it didn't really have to innovate. That's not the case today, you guys, well you have an install base who eats up, sort of every new cycle of Z. You've had to innovate, you've had to really invest in the roadmap, and stay current. Whether it's, you mentioned Blockchain, certainly Linux, et cetera. Now infusing AI as a service, so I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the sort of roadmap that you and your colleagues are on. Without obviously divulging futures, but there's a legacy there that you've invested in, and had to keep really current with some of the major industry trends to keep your clients happy. >> Yeah, and I'll weigh in and then Mike can jump in. I mean, the legacy of Z has always been scale, performance, hyper security, for the most regulated industries, for the most compliant industries, and our biggest enterprises. And that's going to continue, and the next generation of Z's going to continue down that theme. We are very focused on making Z part of the cloud. And so, there's a breadth of announcements, and I know we talked about Hyper Protect and the public cloud, but we're also expanding the Kubernetes orchestration on-premise with our IBM Cloud private product being supported fully on LinuxOne, and expanding it to Linux workloads, and z/OS workloads. And that is, you know, the cloudification of the platform is, I think, the next big step for us. >> But, so what's the real business driver for clients there? Is it just the notion of pay by the drink, and as a service? I mean obviously mainframe invented virtualization, and simplified management, and was always a key part of it, a key tenet. What's the real business driver for people to move to the cloud? >> I mean, in my view guys, it's the speed that they need to move at, right? I mean, you look at why we are standardizing on PaaS platforms, whether it's on the cloud or on-premise. The teams are constantly getting pushed to move faster, DevOps, now there's a new concept of DevSecOps, right? It's all about speed that's driving the need for the cloudification of the platform. The other reason is skills, right? Can I work with the mainframe in a way that I'm abstracting away the special skills needed, but I could still move with that speed in the DevOps cycle, right? So I think it's a combination of those both that's really driving this. >> And from a security perspective, I think a couple of the key points are looking ahead we're really focused on the data, right? How do we allow organizations, 'cause it's going to happen, right? Organizations will need to move data, whether it's temporarily, or longer term. They're going to need to move data to the cloud, that's just, it's a fact of life. So, how do we leverage and harness the capabilities that we have, that we've been talking about with the Z platform to enable clients to securely move their applications, pieces of applications, and data to the cloud so they can take advantage of the capabilities that Rohit was doing, with confidence that their data is not going to be compromised. And that includes a data-centric approach to protection of data, as well as protecting encryption keys and leveraging and taking advantage of the capabilities that we have on the platform for key protection, which is already a key part of the solution that we're bringing to market today. >> So the Z customer that bets his or her business on your platform, I mean, it's embedded, it's fundamental. What's the reaction been to Hyper Protect, you know, kind of feedback that you've had from clients? >> You know, everyone wants to be cloud today, right? So the reaction is actually been really positive. You know we've been working with our biggest Z clients, through what we call the Z Design Council, you know, validating the story. Because we want to help them on this enterprise-out journey. And the reaction has been good. Now, it's, it really depends on where they are on their cloud journey as well, right? Some are very much still want to be an on-premise shop, and some are aggressively moving to the public cloud. So our goal's really to intercept them wherever they are on that cloud journey. >> Yeah well many of them have a cloud mandate, right? >> Absolutely. >> Well, and I have clients come up to me on almost a continuous basis. When they look at what we, the capabilities that we've delivered with our z14 machine, and the cryptographic horsepower that we have with that machine, they're looking at it and saying hey, how do I harness this as a, you know, a crypto as a service for our enterprise? Which is kind of the precursor to what we're doing with the Hyper Protect services, but there is a keen interest from organizations to have a secure, performant, secure, stable environment for cryptographic services because, encryption is becoming ubiquitous, so providing that capability I think is significant. >> Yeah, and our goal, like Mike said, is really to make security easy, right? Whether it's in the public cloud and the enterprise developers don't have to worry about it. Can they get the levels of security that they need for their enterprises, or their enterprise workloads, but in an easy, cloud-native consumption model? That's really what Hyper Protect is. >> Yeah, I guess so final question is, what's the pricing implications of this new offering, and how do customers get started? Is this ready, shipping today? >> It's shipping in March. It's available today, that's the beauty of cloud, right? We went through what we call the experimental services, it's available in beta today. You could go to our IBM Cloud Catalog, access it, get it, try it. >> Great, give you a final word and takeaways you want people to have when it comes to security in the Z space. >> Yeah, so I think the main thing is that Z has a very proud tradition of security leadership and innovation, and what we're bringing to the market here is just another example of that security leadership and innovation. >> All right, well Michael and Rohit, thank you so much for bringing us the update-- >> Thanks, guys. >> Congratulations, on bringing the product to market. >> Thank you. >> Look forward to-- >> Good luck with it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys so much. >> All right, for Dave Vellante, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back to wrap up our day three of four days live, wall-to-wall coverage here, from Moscone North, IBM Think 2019, thanks for watching TheCube. (energetic techno music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. (bubbly music) >> Hello everyone and welcome back to the live coverage, here with theCUBE, here in Orlando, Florida, for Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stu Miniman, for the next three days of wall-to-wall live coverage. We have the co-founders of the Network Collective here Eyvonne Sharp and Jordan Martin, thanks for joining us today, Network Collective. Sounds great, sounds like it's a collection of networks, so what's goin' on, what do you guys do? First let's talk about what you guys do, obviously you guys do a lot of podcasting, a lot of diggin' into the tech, what is Network Collective? >> Network Collective is a video podcast that Jordan and I started. We really felt like there was a need to build community around network engineers, and that really a lot of network engineers are very isolated in their job, there's only a couple people where they work, they know what they know, and they don't have a lot of peers. And so we see Network Collective as a way to bring network engineers together to learn about their craft, and also share with one another in a community that's more than a once-a-year conference like Cisco Live. >> That's awesome, I love the video podcasting, more than ever now the need for kind of peer review, conversations around learning because the world's shifting. In the keynote today the CEO of Cisco talked about the old way, and the new networks that are coming. We've been talking about no perimeters for years, but now security threats are real, gotta keep that strain solid, keep managing that, but also bring in a new kind of a cloud-hybrid, multi-cloud world, requires real skill adoption, new things. What're you guys seeing, what's your thoughts, and what's some of the things that you guys are exploring on your video podcast around these trends? >> You wanna take that Jordan? >> Sure. So, I think the rate of change of networking is faster than it's been in a very long time, so we've, we've had to, we've kinda not had a whole lotta churn in the things we've had to learn, I mean it's been complex and difficult, and there's been challenges in getting up to speed, but, with the transition to more developer-focused, and developer-centric model of deploying equipment, it is--and the integration of cloud into what is essentially our infrastructure. It's changing so much, that it's good to get together and have those conversations because it's very difficult to navigate this by yourself, it's, you know, it's a lot to learn. >> You know, I wanna push back little bit on that 'cause, you know, I've been in networking my whole career. When I used to, I used to speak at Interop, and I'd put down, you know, here's the rate of change, and here are the decades. And it's like, you know, okay 10 gig, here's where the standards are, here's where the first pieces are, it's gonna take years for us to deploy this. I don't disagree that change is happening overall faster, but how are people keeping up with it? Are the enterprises that the networking people work for allowing them to roll out some of these changes a little faster? So, give us a little insight as to what you're hearing from the community? >> I think, I mean technology, I mean, we've got Moore's law, right? I mean technology has always been changing rapidly, I think the thing that is different is the way network engineers need to interact with their environment. Five to 10 years ago, you could still operate in an environment where you still did a lot of static routing, for example. Now, with the cloud, with workloads moving around, there is no way to run a multi-cloud enterprise network without some serious dynamic routing chops, whether that's BGP, or EIGRP, or OSPF, or all of the above, and a lot of network engineers are still catching up with some of those technologies, they're used to being able to do things the way that they've always done them. And I think there needs to be a mind shift where we start thinking about things dynamically, in that, you know, an IP address may not live in the same geography, it may move from on-premises to the cloud to another cloud, and we have to be able to build networks that are resilient enough, and flexible enough, to be able to support that kind of mobility. >> Yeah, I love that Eyvonne. Right, you talked about the multi-cloud world. Jordan, a follow up question I have for you, how does the networking person look at things when there's a lot of the networking that are really outside of their control when you talk about really, the cloud world today. >> Sure, and before we jump there, I wanna say, the change that we're talking about though, is a bit different than what's happened. So, what we've seen traditionally would be speeds and feeds, but what's changing is the way we operate networks, and that hasn't changed a lot. Now, as for, you know, how do you view it when you don't-- well that's a challenge that everyone is facing. We see networking getting further and closer to the host. And, when we see networking inside of VMware, I mean this has been something that's been around for, you know, a while now, but, we're just getting comfortable with the idea of hypervisor, and now we've got, you know, we've got containers, and we've got networking in third party services that we don't necessarily have access to, we don't have full control over, and it's a completely different nomenclature we have to relearn all the terms because of course, no one reused the stuff we were familiar with, because this all started from a developer mindset. It all makes sense where it came from, but now we're catching up. And so it's, the challenge is not only understanding what needs to be done in all these different environments, but also understanding, just the terminology, and what is means. What is a VPC? Well VPC means something completely different to a networker that has never touched Amazon, than it does to somebody who has worked at Amazon completely there's overlapping terms and confusion around that and it's just a matter of, I think you need some broader coordination. There's been discussion about something like a full stack engineer, I think that's a pretty rare thing, I don't know how, how likely it is that you're gonna be expert level in all different disciplines, but you do need, you do need cross-team collaboration more than you have traditionally. We've had these silos, those no longer work in a multi-cloud world, it just doesn't, just doesn't work anymore. >> One of the things that came out with the keynote was, the networks next act was the main theme, as they talked about this new way, I mean, they use secure, intelligent platform, you know, for digital business, you know, level one marketing there, more complex than a few years ago and then the onslaught of new things coming, AI, augmented reality, machine learning, and I'd put blockchain in there, I thought they would put blockchain in the keynote to hype it up a bit, but, then they introduced the multi-cloud concept at that point. So in the keynote, multi-cloud didn't come up until the next act came up, so obviously that is a key part of what we're seeing, we saw Google clouds CEO Diane Greene come on. How are network engineers looking at the multi-cloud? 'Cause, I mean, how are they, toe in the water, are they puttin' the tow in the water? (chuckles) What is multi-cloud to them? Because, I mean, we talk about Kubernetes all the time, from an app standpoint, but, networks have been locked down for many, many years, you talked about some of the chops they need, what are those next chops for a network engineer when it comes to taking the road to multi-cloud? >> Sure, I mean I think if you're going to do any kind of multi-cloud interconnect, you've gotta know VGP. But at the same time, you need to understand some of those fundamental concepts that, the reason developers are pushing to the cloud, is not cost, although I've heard that a lot, that you know this cloud thing can't be cheaper, but it's really about enabling the business to move faster, and so we need to start thinking that way as network engineers more too. We have I think historically, our mentality, we've even trained our network engineers to go slow, to be very deliberate, to plan out your changes, to have these really complex change windows, and we need to start thinking differently, we need to think about how to make modular changes, and to be able to allow our workloads to move and shift in ways that don't provide a lot of risk, and I think that's a new way of thinking for networking engineers. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're sitting here in the DevNet zone, and that was one of the highlights in the keynote, talking that there are over 500 thousand developers now registered on this platform that they've built here. Bring us inside a little bit, you know, is it, what was it, John, DevNet sec? There's all of these acronyms as to, you know, how developers-- >> Yeah, NetApp was their big thing. >> how the network and the operations go together. What are you seeing, what's working, what's some of the challenges? >> I think this is a shift of necessity. As we see more problems solved in the network, we're adding complexity at that layer that hasn't been seen before, before it was routing, we just had to get traffic from one place to another, then we added security, so okay we have security, but we, we create these choke points in security where we can send all the traffic through this place and just like, we can use filtering, or some sort of identification there. Well then we start moving to cloud and we talk about dynamic workloads, and we talk about things that could just shift anywhere in the world, well now our choke point is gone, and so now we have to manage all the pieces, all the solutions, all the things we're putting into the network, but we've gotta manage it in a distributed way. And so that's where I think the automation's, why it's such a big push right now is because, we have to do it that way, there's no way to manually put these features in the network and be able to manage them at any type of scale without automating that process, and that's why, I think, we see the growth of DevNet, I mean, if you've been here the past few years, it's gone from a little thing to a much, much bigger thing, there's a lot of people looking at automation specifically, that 500 thousand number is, rather large. Really impressive that there's that many people looking at networks from a programmatic way. But in the meantime, I think that there's also, a bit of a divide here, 'cause I think that there's, a lot of people are looking this way, but I think there's, we talk about this on the show pretty often, there's really two types of networks. There's the networks at companies where, it really is, they see their network as a competitive advantage, and those places are definitely looking at automation, and they're looking at multi-cloud. But we also see another trend in networking, and that is to, I want some simple, push button, just put it out, get packets A to B, and I don't wanna mess with it, I don't want expensive engineers on staff, I don't want-- So I feel like the industry's almost coming to a divide. That we're gonna have two different types of networks, we're gonna have the network for the place that the just want packets going A to B, and they really don't want much, and the other side of that divide is gonna be very complex networks that have to be managed with automation. >> Talk about that other divide, it's between, I mean, I love that conversation, because, that almost kinda comes into like the notion of networks as a service. Because if you wanna have less expensive people there, but yet have the reliability, how do those companies grow and maintain the robust resiliency of these networks, and have the high performance, take advantage of the goodness, well what does it matter? I mean, how are they, how is the demographic of the network evolving, 'cause, either they're stunted for growth, or they have an enabler. How do you view that, how do you take that apart? >> I think we have to, we have to look at our business needs, and evaluate the technologies that we use appropriate to that. There are times for complexity, I think we've pushed, as Jordan very eloquently described, a lot of complexity down into the network, and we're working, I think, now, as the entire industry to maybe back some of that out. But one of the things that I hear a lot when we talk about automation and things like DevNet and developers is, I believe a lot of network engineers are afraid their jobs are going away, but if you look at what's going on, we have more connected devices than we've ever had before, and that's not gonna stop, and all of those connected devices need networks. And so really what's happened is we've reached a complexity inflection point, which means we have to have better tools, and I think that's really what we're talking about is, is how do we, instead of doing everything manually, how do we look at the network as a system, and manage it as a system, with tools to manage it that way. >> Your point about that jobs going away, I love that comment because, that's a sunk fallacy because, there's so much other stuff happening, talk about security, so the basic question, I mean first of all, guys your job's not goin' away! (laughs) Check! It's only a, well, kind of, you don't stay current, so it's all the learning issues, the progression for learning. But really it's the role of the network engineers and the people running the networks, I mean, I remember back in, the old way, the network guys were the top dogs, they were kickin' butt, takin' names, they ran the show, a lot was riding on the network. But as we go into this new dynamic environment, what are the roles of the network? Is it security? I mean, what are some of the things that people are pivoting to, or laddering up to from a roles standpoint that you see, in terms of a progression of new discovery, new skills. Is there a path, have you seen any patterns, for the growth of the person? >> I really think network engineers need to at least understand what the cloud is and why it exists. And they need to understand more about the applications and what they mean to the business. I think we have created a divide sometimes where, you know, my job is just to get packets from point A to B, and I don't really need to understand what we do as an organization, and I think that those days are going to be behind us, we need to understand, you know, what applications are critical, why do we need to build the systems the way that we need to build them and use that information from the business? So I think for network engineers, I think cloud security, understanding applications, and learning the business and being able to talk that language is what's gonna be most valuable to them in their career in the future. >> Yeah, we've heard the term many times, I'm a plumber! Well, I mean, implying that moving packets from A to B. It gets interesting with containers. Policy-based stuff has been known concept in networking, QOS, these are things that are well known, but when we start lookin' at the trends up the stack, we're seeing that kinda thing goin' on, service meshes for instance, they talk about services from a policy standpoint, up the stack. That's always been the challenge for the Ciscos over the past 20 years is, how to move up the stack, should they move up the stack, but I think now seems to be a good time. Your reaction guys, to that notion of moving up the stack while maintaining the purity and the goodness of good networking. (laughing) >> I think that's the big challenge right now, right? The more we mesh it all together and we don't, we don't really define the layers that we've traditionally used, the more challenging it is to have experts in that domain, because the domain just grows so incredibly large. And so there's gotta be a balance here, and I think we're trying to find that, I don't know that we've hit that yet, you know where, where we understand where networking fits into all these pieces, how far into the host, or how far into the application does networking go, we've seen certain applications not using the host TCP/IP stack, right, just to find some sort of performance benefit and it, to me that seems like we're pushing really far into this idea of, you know, well if we don't have standards and define places where these things exist, it's gonna be very much the wild, wild west for a while, until we figure out where everything's going to be. And so I think it just presents challenges and opportunities I don't know that we have the answer about how far it goes yet. >> Well let me ask you a question, a good point by the way, we agree, it's evolving, it's a moving train as they say. But as, people that might be watching that might be a Cisco customer or someone deploying a lot of Cisco networks and products in his portfolio, what's your advice to them, what're you hearing that's a good first three steps to take today? Obviously the show's goin' on here, multi-cloud is in center of the focus, this new network age is here for the CEO. What are some things that people can do now that are safe and good first steps to continue on the journey to whatever this evolves into. >> Well I think as you're building your network you need to think about modularization, you need to think about how to build it in small, manageable pieces, and, even if you're not ready to take the automation step today, you need to think about what that's gonna look like in the future, so, if you really want to automate your network you have to have consistency, consistent policy, consistent configuration across your environment, and it's never too late to start that, or too early to start that, right? And so you can think about, if I wanted to take these 10 sites and I wanted to manage them as one, how would I build it? And you can use that kind of mental framework to help guide the decisions you make, even if you're not ready to jump into a full scale automation from soup to nuts. And also I think, it's important to start playing around with automation technology, there are all kinds of tools to do that, and you can start in an are that's either dev, or QA, that's not gonna be production impacting, but you really need to get your, wrap your hands around some of the tools that exist to automate, and start playing with those. >> Stay where you're comfortable, get in, learn, get hands on. Jordan, your thoughts? >> Yeah, so, I was just over here like nodding my head furiously, 'cause everything she said, I 100% agree with. >> Ditto. (laughing) >> Yes, ditto, exactly. The only thing I would add is that we think about automation a lot in the method of config push. Right, the idea of configuring a device in an automated way, but that's not the only avenue for automation. Start by pulling information from your devices, it is really, really low risk way to start looking at your network programmatically, is to be able to go out to all of your switches, all of your routers, all of your networking devices and pull the same information and correlate that data and get yourself some information that's with a broader view. Does nothing to effect the change or state of your network, but you are now starting to look at your network that way. And I will reiterate Eyvonne's point, you cannot automate a network if it's not repeatable. If every design, every topology, every location is a special snowflake, you will never be able to automate anything because you're gonna have a hundred unique automation scripts to run a hundred unique sites. >> You'd be chasin' your tail big time. >> You'd be chasin' your tail, and so it is critical, if you're not in that state now, what you need to do is start looking how to modularize, and make repeatable config blocks in your network. >> Well guys, thanks for comin' on, Eyvonne, Jordan, thanks for comin' on, appreciate you taking the time. Final question for ya, I know it's day one, we got two more days of live coverage here, but, if you can kinda project, and in your minds eye see the development of the show, what's bubbling up as the most important story that's gonna come out of Cisco Live if you had to look at some early indications from the keynotes and some of the conversations in the hallway, what do you think is the biggest story this year for Cisco Live? >> I think for me personally, I wanna understand what Cisco's cloud strategy looks like, to know where they're going with the cloud and how they're going to help stitch together all the different services that we have. The clouds are becoming their own monolith, they each do things their own way, and still the network is what is stitching all those services together to provide access. And so I think it's important to understand that strategy, and where Cisco's goin'. >> Jordan, your thoughts? >> My, what I'm really looking for from the show this year is how Cisco is gonna make orchestration approachable. We've seen this process of automation where only the hardcore programmers could do it, then we got some tools. And these tools, as we watch as more of Cisco's product platforms start to integrate with each other I think the key piece for enterprise shops that don't have that type of resource on staff is what tools are they gonna give them to make this orchestration, between the way in and the enterprise campus, and into the cloud and in the data center, how do we tie all that together and make that to like a nice, seamless way to operate your network? >> Hey, what a great opportunity to have another podcast called under the hood, see what's goin' on, lot of chops needed, thanks for comin' on, give a quick plug for the address for your podcast, where do we find it, what's the site, Network Collective, obviously you guys are doing great things. Share the coordinates. >> Sure, you can find us at thenetworkcollective.com we usually use the hashtag: #NetworkCollective I'm on Twitter @SharpNetwork. Jordan, you wanna tell people where to find you? >> Sure, @bcjordo on Twitter, and obviously if you wanna interact with Network Collective, @NetCollectivePC on Twitter as well. >> Alright, thanks so much for the commentary, great to have a little shared, little podcast here, live on theCUBE, here in Orlando, I'm John Furrier, with Stu Miniman for our coverage at Cisco Live 2018, stay with us for more, we've got two more days of this, got day one just gettin' started, be right back after this short break. (bubbly music)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Mountain View, California, at a really cool start-up, Phantom Auto. They're coming at this autonomous vehicle thing from a very different direction. They're not a car company, it's not BMW and Audi and Nissan and all the other people you hear about. It's a pure software play, but it really has a huge impact on the autonomous vehicle industry. We're excited with the guy who's putting all these development, business development deals together. He's Jordan Sanders, director of business development and operations. Jordan, great to see you. >> Yeah, thanks for having me. >> So, again, when I first heard about you guys I thought, "Okay, do I order "this to drive my grandfather to the store," because he shouldn't be driving even though he has his driver's license, but no, that's not it at all. You guys have a very specific target market and it's really more a biz dev than a direct-to-consumer market. >> Yeah, exactly, so we are a B2B business and our target customers are those who are closest to getting their autonomous vehicles on the road. And so, that's frankly where we're seeing the most traction for now, at this point, from customers. As you get closer to true deployment of level four robo-taxis you realize a need for remote assistance, and we think we have the best solution on the market. >> Jeff: Right. >> To actually remotely drive the car and have a human in the loop to promote safety and service. >> So, as you look at your kind of tam, your ecosystem that you're going to market with, obviously we all know Waymo. We see the cars driving around all the time, the Nest is right up the street, but how's that landscape evolving? You know, we obviously hear about Uber, we hear about Lyft, you hear little bits and pieces about BMW and different car companies. As you sit back from where you're sitting, how do you kind of segment the market, how do you figure out where you're going to go next? >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, right now, you know, there's obviously a lot of excitement around this market and where it will be in five years. Right now the number of actual autonomous vehicles deployed is relatively low, and so that is frankly what our business is tied to. Again, it's enabling every vehicle on the road to actually operate safely, and so in terms of total addressable market, how we see it evolving, right now it's a relatively small number of cars and a relatively small number of players, but we see huge opportunity and huge growth in the sector over the next five years and 10 years. >> Right, and obviously a big integration challenge for you guys because each platform that you partner with is, you know, we hear all the time, some of them are using some shared infrastructure, some of them are trying to use their own, some are RADAR, some are LIDAR, some are camera, some are combination, so from a business development point of view you guys have to integrate with all those different platforms. >> That's correct, and so that's from the very beginning, we're building our end-to-end service to be very flexible and the software piece especially can integrate with any vehicle, with any vehicle manufacturer, because frankly we want to be open to the market and we don't want to just cover, you know, one customer's vehicles. We are sort of a third party who can provide a safety solution for a number of AV operators. >> Right, now the other interesting thing that people probably don't think about is, you know, we hear all about the technology in the cars and the machines, right, and IOT and it's all about machines, but in bringing a human operator into the equation it's not just to operate the vehicle, it's actually a person and all that that means. I wonder if you can kind of explain how that impacts people's autonomous car vehicle when there's actually a person involved. >> Yeah, definitely, so I think, you know, I think about this from a personal standpoint, so part of me is very excited for autonomous vehicles and I've ridden in several autonomous vehicles, feel very comfortable in them very quickly, but I also live in Silicon Valley and not everyone does just get to zip around in autonomous vehicles and is working in this industry, and so we do view there's going to be a, you know, a big consumer adoption kind of hurdle to overcome, and a piece of that is having the passengers in the car comfortable and feeling that, you know, someone has their back, right? >> Jeff: Right. >> So that's a key part of what we believe that we deliver is a human touch to self-driving cars, which we think is very important just at a psychological level, knowing that you have somebody who is monitoring your ride and is ready to intervene and protect you, you know, in the event that something goes wrong with the ride. And the other thing is by having a human in the loop it also enables all sorts of interesting ways of providing better service, and that's going to be a very, a key piece of whenever everyone inside the car is a passenger, there are no longer drivers, we're passengers. There are going to be lots of opportunities for enhancing passenger experience, and we think part of that can be, you know, providing a human service, an actual human on the other end making you feel comfortable and also connecting you with almost like a concierge. >> Right, and like OnStar has been around forever, right, that's probably the first kind of two way- >> You said that, not me, yeah. >> Two way communication, right, into the vehicle, which at first was I think mainly a safety feature. You crash and it sends out a 911 and then I think they kind of evolved it into a little bit of a concierge service. >> Exactly, so again, there's certainly that piece that we think is going to be really important for consumer adoption. I mean, I think AAA did a survey recently that showed 75% of consumers are afraid of trusting a machine, an autonomous vehicle. Now, we're very confident that the AV tech, once you get inside an autonomous vehicle that you very quickly realize, "Wow, this is a great driver," and we're very bullish on, you know, autonomous vehicle technology and believe that it's very reliable. But again, in those edge case scenarios, having a human who's going to intervene on your behalf and be able to actually operate the vehicle will be really important. >> Right, so somebody's watching this and going, "Ha-ha-ha," you know, "I'm a hacker, I'm going to hack into the stream," and it's not going to be Ben, the nice, smooth driver taking over the car but some person that maybe we don't want taking over the car. So, in terms of security and network infrastructure, how much are you leveraging your partners' infrastructure, how much are you leveraging your own, where does kind of security fit in this whole puzzle? >> Yeah, it's a great question and certainly one that, you know, we're hearing from a lot of customers. So, we are working with a variety of cybersecurity firms for making sure that our solution is extremely secure across multiple vectors, so whether it's just on the software piece or really our end-to-end solution, from the hardware that we can offer in the car, to the software, to the actual control center, the operation center where the driver's driving you, making sure that we have end-to-end security to avoid any situation like that. >> Right, so Jordan, for the people that aren't in Silicon Valley, what should they know about autonomous vehicles, how close are we, how much is it just, you know, stuff in the newspaper and you know, kind of nirvana still or just, you know, specialize Waymo vehicles that we see all the time in this neighborhood. How close is this to Main Street, how close is this to being that vehicle that picks me up when I get off the Caltrain to San Francisco and I need to go to a meeting over the Embarcadero? >> Yeah, so I think what people should know about this technology is that it is incredible technology that will be life-saving and that needs to get on the road, but that needs to happen in a safe manner and at a time where you can have full confidence in the operation and all settings, right. The technology is incredible, and so what Phantom Auto is here to do is to get these life-saving vehicles on the road quicker, and so what I would say to the average person who's a little uncertain of this technology is that it is incredible and you're going to enjoy the experience and it will be life-saving, and again, I think Phantom Auto is working to actually bring that experience to consumers by getting these robo-taxi services deployed. >> Jeff: Right. >> Pull out the safety driver and have a remote safety driver, a Phantom Auto remote operator ready to take over control of the vehicle in the event that you need assistance. >> And in terms of where you guys are as a company, right, you're a relatively small company, got this cool Lincoln here, where are you in terms of your company? Do you have POCs in place, do you have customers in place, kind of where is it in terms of the deployment of the technology within your ecosystem? >> Yeah, well we realize that we're bringing a very critical solution to these operators, so again, if you're an autonomous vehicle developer and operator and really thinking seriously about deployment you realize that you need a solution like ours, and so on the business standpoint we have several deals already closed, some pilots planned over the next few months, so you'll be seeing a lot more, I think, of us very soon out in the market. >> All right, now you're going to see more of us on the street. So, Jordan, let's stop talking and let's go take a ride in the car. >> Let's get in the car. >> All right, he's Jordan, I'm Jeff. We're getting in the car, thanks for watching. (techy music playing)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS reinvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas, this is theCUBE exclusive coverage, but still going to angle media, I'm John Furrier the founder, still going to hang out with Keith Towson, my cohost this week, our next guest, Chris Jordan the chief CEO of IOLAP, online transaction processing for all database geeks out there, Chris welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So you guys were part of the team that worked with Amazon on Alexa for business, which believe me, rushing into the market is an understatement. They needed to get this into the market. >> Chris: Sure, absolutely. >> Alexa is the most popular lightning in a bottle. When we saw her come out, we were like, this is going to be awesome. Of course we've got some new cool stuff with the wireless cameras, and amazing set of services. But, in the industry track on Tuesday, the number one repeat session, 'cause that's kind of an indicator, people want more demand was Alexa, anything to do with Alexa. Voice is hot, so tell us about your role with Alexa for business, how did you guys get involved? How far along were you with Amazon before they launched it? Tell us about your relationship with Amazon. >> Right so our relationship with Amazon really started with when they launched red shift five years ago, right. We're a traditional analytics big data, data warehousing type company, and when red shift came out it became really compelling to us. We were already interested in Amazon, or AWS prior to that, got real interested with red shift. Two years ago when Alexa came out, we started playing with it, immediately put it in our innovation lab, and started trying to figure out how can we use this in an enterprise setting? How can we get it into the business place and make use of it? And we almost immediately started working with a couple of our customers one of whom, who was one of the launch partners today in the keynote, with looking at what we can build, and how we can use Alexa in that environment, and what we found was a lot of roadblocks. Alexa was a, Echos and Dots, is a consumer product, right. And it really wasn't right for the enterprise, and so we started building out components that help us get to the enterprise. Ten months ago we started working with the Alexa for business team, and worked real closely with them. When they made the keynote announcement this morning, there was I think eight launch partners that are listed on the website today, one of which we are. We feel like we have a pretty different approach to where we want to use Alexa in the enterprise. >> Alright, so voice is hard. I mean Alexa is great, in fact my wife actually moved Alexa from the kitchen into my room because she thinks Alexa is listening to her. So, some security issues there. But Alexa is great, you talk get some impact. But in the rating of the databases, and normal enterprise stuff is hard. Look at voiceover IP, look how hard that was to jam into an enterprise. So I mean, that's. >> The number one channel is the first thing we bumped into was user authentication if you've got an Alexa device sitting in a room, anybody that comes in and asks a question is going to get the answer if it's built to do it. You can't have that in an enterprise setting. So we had to come up with an authentication method, some active directory integration or something like that, and that was well the first component that we built, and integrated into our platform. That allows us to understand and enable access control and. >> Alright, so let's go down and look at where the challenges were with Alexa for business that they had to overcome, and ones that got a knock down going forward. Either directly through AWS or through Ecosystem Partners. Go ahead. >> Well the first challenge was device management, and that's the biggest thing that they solved with Alexa for businesses. If I'm a company that wants to roll out a hundred devices across the organization, or a thousand devices in hotel rooms or something like that. How do I manage that? How do I deploy it? How do I sign the users and all that? Alexa for business solved that today. >> So let's go down this MDM path a little bit. Alexa is not just a service that runs on a Dot, or an Echo. There are screen use cases for it. I personally don't like just talking to a hailless unit. What are some of the other MDM integration points, not Android, Apple, iOS applications, hailless devices, just apps as a use case for (mumbles). >> Yeah definitely, so the services that are already built, and actually there were actually announced last year at reinvent here Lex and Poly, with those we can build applications that were interacting on our phone either via voice through text with a chat bot like interface but we can also do a display so we can be showing results while we are asking and getting a response. Show results on a screen, either on a device like an echo show, or on a television with a fire stick plugged in it, or on a computer screen with a URL launch. >> So, I'm really interested in this, what John likes to call the white space of Amazon. They get involved in so many areas, good point is authentication. Eventually, Amazon is going to figure that out. So where are the white spaces, and where echo system partners can safely invest, add value to customers and Amazon, but at the same time stay in business? >> What we're doing is taking our years of domain experience, and innovating with our clients to come up with personas and use cases, and really develop those voice applications if you will. That become a almost like another interface into all of the enterprise systems that they've already built. And for us, we think that's what ultimately the business will be. Our platform is great and it solves some problems that aren't necessarily solved already, but I don't think there's anything that stops AWS from solving those problems themselves, in fact I would expect them to over time. >> Well they want The Ecosystem to step up. Eddie Jazzy told me when I had my meeting with him one on one last week prior the conference. I asked him straight up, I go, you know people might be afraid that you're going to roll over these awesome opportunities. And he said look our customers want us to do certain things like monitoring, but new relic is kicking ass, Mongo DB on the database side. So he wants to create, they want to create an environment for partners to thrive, no doubt about it. So you know even though that they might take over it all anyway at some point. But what is the opportunity for partners? 'Cause you guys are first in kind of jumping in the water with Amazon. This is going to be a massively intoxicating area for developers because it's voice. And if they can turn around these API's, I mean the innovation is spectacular. >> Yeah I think it's wide open to build out kind of prebuilt solutions, we've got five already that we think are interesting in the enterprise. At the very least it's a great conversation starter to have a KPI concierge for a CFO. And we've got prebuilt sort of garden path of questions and answers that we can guide the CFO down, and build out his group of KPI's, and that's a repeatable solution. We definitely think there's that solution type problem. The platform we think we've built some unique things there, to be able to integrate the visual assistant part of it, and I think. >> Well, you guys get to leverage your tech in a way that can be put into a new flywheel if you will, but Keith this is what we were talking about earlier. I want to ask Chris the question, because this is the real question. What would be the alternative without Amazon to roll in and roll out kiosks, buy a PC, full stack engineering, QA, I mean it would be ridiculous the cost would be, now you can just walk down and knock down potentially anything with an iPad. >> Right, we. >> You stick an iPad on, you got a kiosk. >> We had our first proof of concept up and running within three weeks, or three months I'm sorry. And we couldn't have done that if it wasn't for all of the platform and service that AWS had already built. >> Huge opportunity, not for startups, but for existing companies. Alright, so what's your advice for folks to end the segment here out there, you guys are on it. You're taking you're intellectual property, wrapping around Alexa, or Alexa is wrapping around you however it works. What's your advice to folks who want to jump in on this bandwagon? >> First thing is to jump in and start playing with voice, and see how it changes the way you interact with your systems. We discovered our customers jumped in, and we thought, there were things that way, they're like can we do this, can we do that? That we never thought of until we just jumped in and started doing it, so jump in. >> Alright, share one thing that people might not know about Alexa for business something that's part of your experience working with AWS on this early program. Share some color, a funny story, something anecdotal, something maybe crazy. Did Verde wear that t-shirt Seattle shirt every day? >> Well, definitely one of the it's not exactly an Alexa for business story, but the thing that really led me to need some form of authentication is when I first put my Echo at home, my children were playing with it, and within ten minutes had ordered a book on a hundred different ways to cook ramen noodles. And so I thought, I don't need them to be able to buy everything they can without me authenticating that somehow, and we need to get some authentication on this device. >> Exactly, all the crazy stuff that comes out. >> Yeah. >> Alright, Chris thanks for coming on. Congratulations on your success of your business. IOLAP, IOLAP, where you guys based out of? >> We're headquartered in Dallas, Texas area, Frisco. >> John: Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Alright, Alexa for business, hot topic. Let me see, probably a tsunami of integration going on. Again, this could move the needle big time, game changer. Hopefully create great apps. theCUBE, live coverage, day three here at reinvent, more coverage here after this short break. (upbeat music)

(clicking) >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit in San Francisco at Pier 27, I got to look at it. I've never been here before. It's a cool facility right on the water, between Pier 39 and the Bay Bridge. We're really excited to have back, I can't believe it's been like three years. To have Sheila Jordan, she's a CIO of Symantec and last we saw you was, I looked it up it was Service Now Knowledge 2014. >> Yes that's correct. >> Sheila, great to see you. >> Sheila: Nice to see you. Thanks for being here. >> Absolutely. So I think when we first talked you were just starting in your role in Symantec and now you're three years into it, you just got off a panel about leading digital transformation, so just give us kind of a general view of what you've been up to and how has that journey been progressing? >> Right, well it's been quite a journey and I would say that it's been really a transformational journey. So the vision for Symantec really is to become the largest cyber security company in the world. And that vision really started two, two and half years ago and I'd say that today it's a reality. When I was hired, I was actually hired to in source IT, so we completed that and then when we went through the Veritas separation, so we separated the company with Veritas which was a pretty significant separation. And then subsequently we've acquired four or five companies, we've recently acquired the Blue Coat company, which with that acquisition, we get our CEO Greg Clark. And then we've also acquired some other companies on the consumer side so the LifeLock business is really tied to our consumer digital safety. So we've been very busy and now we've just announced a small divestiture on our website security business. So lots of acquisitions, lots of change, lots of transformation, that really would been bringing into the organization. >> Jeff: Right and you talked on the panel your job is you got to keep the lights on and keep things moving. Then you've got this acquisition and in your case big, the split the divestiture. But then you still want to innovate and you've talked about looking at new applications, and I thought a really interesting comment you made was about shadow IT. >> Right >> And shadow IT is not all bad. There's a reason that somebody decided to take that action. And really they're trying to understand why? And what was the application requirement? And not just throw it out as unauthorized use. Pretty interesting lesson. >> Sheila: Well a couple things on that. Working in an engineering organization you can't ignore when there's apps being used and come up, because there's a need. Obviously there's a need that the IT organization isn't providing and so what it that need? And what is that capability that the organization is looking for? Now the cool thing is we have technology called CASB which is the Cloud Access Security Broker. That allows us to look at the entire environment of what both cloud applications of who's using what. So for example, we are sanctioned and our standard is box, but I can look across the organization and see what cloud applications we're using and if Drop Box appears, that's a question to say no that doesn't make sense, our standard's box. But the reality is is that all other applications that might be coming out of the engineering organization's using, we should be asking ourselves why? What capability are we not delivering? And how do we bring that into the IT arsenal? >> Jeff: Right, right. And essentially you bring up the box example because another thing you talked about on the stage was your cloud adoption. So kind of you threw out a number, 62%. So I'm not exactly sure what 62% is. But where was it when you got there? What is 62%? What are you measuring? And there's conversations about direct ROI but it's a much more complicated formula than just a simple ROI. >> Yes it really is, and I would say that first of all, from an IT perspective, I think any CIO has the obligation to help the organization run, change, and grow. And forward thinking CEOs really understand that technology can be used to not only run the company, that's kind of old school legacy total cost of ownership costs. Really super important, but it's not only run, but how do you use the technology to change and grow? So when you have opportunities like Saas, that allow the CIOs to have, reduce our total cost of ownership, be more agile, have the Saas providers update their products and solutions and all of that, that's kind of on the Saas providers. It makes our job a little easier or different I'd say. What I mean by that is the role of the CIO hasn't changed. Our job is to protect the company's assets. All of our company's assets and our data whether that's customer data, employee data, partner data. And yet five or seven years ago, it was these monolithic applications it was a private data center. on-prem physical data center. It was massive or monolithic geopcs. All of that has changed. So the role hasn't changed but now we've got to think about Saas applications. Cloud, infrastructure as a service. Public cloud on the infrastructure side. We think about all the applications that are coming in on our mobile devices. We think about IOT, we think about structured and unstructured data. Our role is the same, but how we have to manage that complexity to help our companies and enable our companies run, change, and grow; it's just very different. >> Jeff: And then you get involved in kind of investigating how the second order impacts? Kind of the law of unintended positive consequences by going to a Saas application, for instance. Or going to some of these platforms that doesn't show up in the simple ROI analysis. >> No, I agree with that. But I also think it's total cost of ownership but it's also as important today, as a agility. Everyone wants to get to market faster. Everyone wants to feel to be more productive. So it's really the combination of both total cost of ownership and agility. >> Yeah you said an interesting thing too. "Speed is a habit." Which is a really interesting quote. Because everybody wants speed. >> Absolutely >> And we just had another guest who talked about speed actually does correlate to better software. Because it forces you to do that. But everybody wants speed. You got to have it. So the other, you were all over, I got notes. We could go on all day. I won't go on all day, but somebody talked about what are the limits? What are the limits of applications? As you made a really interesting comment that at the end of the day, it's just about the data flow, and having a horizontal view from your seat. You may find that there's other ways to skin that cat based on what other people are doing. >> Sheila: Right, so I would say one of the reasons I love being in IT, is we see horizontally. There's many functions in the company that see in those silos, but we get to see horizontally which means we see the redundancies in an organization and some of the gaps. And so and as the world changes, that it's less about these monolithic, huge applications, but more about cloud and Saas. It really becomes important about the data flow. Where is the data? Not only is it in that say sales force application, but how does that sales force application move to a box? And how does that content move from box to say some of the collaboration tools in technology and how does that move and flow? Our role has to be about, one: Understanding the data flow and really where that exists. And how do we enable the entire business? Every function to be even more productive. But also how we protect and secure that. So, I think it's so exciting that not only are we doing, our view in IT is to deliver that unified, end to end experience. And it all comes down to the reference architecture approach. But the other part why I'm so excited about Symantec is because we're moving into the notion and the vision of having an integrated cyber defense platform. And I'll explain that for one second. Because historically, the security business has been really fragmented. Point solutions to protect every layer of your architecture. So whether you had a point solution in infrastructure, or end points, or data, or at the web gateway layer. Whatever that was, and what happened is, over time, our recent report would suggest that a large enterprise has anywhere between 65 and 85 security products in there enterprise. Large, large enterprise. >> 65 to 85. >> Security products >> Point solutions. >> In their enterprise. (Jeff chuckles) Yeah and so >> Tough to manage. >> It becomes, yeah it really does. One of the visions that Greg Clark and Mike Fey have for our company, is why can't we be, and deliver this integrated, cyber defense platform? Because it's really connected. We then have products that will live at each layer of the architecture but connected. And so the really super cool thing about that, is that the white spaces between those fragmented products, really are breeding grounds for the bad guys to come in and stay awhile and sit and watch and observe. If you have all that legacy technology and legacy applications, it just becomes a breeding ground. And when you have an integrated cyber trends platform that actually allows it to be much more integrated and really reduce some of the risks and all for our CEOs and customers, a better opportunity to effectively manage their environment. >> Right and you guys are a security company, but also you're a CIO of trying to protect stuff. So you're in a really good spot. Cause the other thing that's happening is this radical increase in the tax services. Especially as we go beyond cloud and APIs to edge economy and IOT devices. As you kind of look at the future of both for protecting your own stuff but also helping to deliver the products for your customers, if the security space is really really rapidly evolving. >> Rapidly evolving and becoming even more important. Because again, the flow of data from your sales force application to your mobile device to IOT back to a content solution. Back to some of the collaboration. The flow of data, is now app to app, or Saas to Saas. Saas to device, device to infrastructure as a service, so it really is the flow of data is so dynamic, and so security becomes just super critical to make sure we're securing that data in motion. >> Right, Right. Yeah it's crazy. And even if you have the most secure systems, you might have lapses in protocol which we hear like some of the CAWS breaches, where somebody didn't configure something right. Alright so, I could keep you here all day (Sheila chuckles) But I won't. But I want to give you that last word. What's next? And there was a little bit of conversation on the panel, so I want to open that up again. As you kind of look forward or, the cloud thing's kind of done, the API thing is kind of done as you look forward, what's kind of the next ... Never say five years in this business. Next couple years, you're excited about the move in the industry forward. >> Sheila: Well I actually think, and I know it might be an overused term, but I really think that we're just scratching the surface on AI artificial intelligence and machine learning. We're using a lot of that in our products today and how we're building our security products. But when I think about corporate IT, and I think about how we deliver statistics and information about our business. So transactional reporting on bookings and revenue and forecast and expenses, there needs to be a better, more predictive way of analyzing that data and understanding it in a much more sophisticated AI. Machine learning that we get our customer insights. And we really start to use those insights into building out that kind of knowledge as we move forward. I look forward to really beginning to really really have some strategies on AI and machine learning in corporate IT. >> Alright, well Sheila Jordan it was great to see you. Hopefully it won't be >> Nice to see you! >> Three years >> Three years till we see you again! CIO of Symantec. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit San Francisco. Thanks for watching. >> Sheila: Thank you so much. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Boston Massachusetts, it's The CUBE covering OpenStack Summit 2017, brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat and additional ecosystem support. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my co-host John Troyer. You're watching The CUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program Darrell Jordan-Smith who's the Vice President of Telecommunications at Red Hat. Thanks so much for joining us. >> It's great to be here thank you >> All right so Darrell last year at the show you know the telcos were like all in force. I got to interview Verizon. We're going to have Beth who was on the keynote stage on Monday on our coverage tomorrow. I know they're a Red Hat customer. When I hear at Red Hat summit, there were some really big telcos that are red hat customers. So to tell us why telco and OpenStack you know go so well together these days? >> Well telcos are looking for a open source for innovation. They need to change the way that they deliver services today and modernize their network infrastructure to become more agile, and a lot of them are doing that because of 5G, the next generation of services that they will be deploying over their network infrastructure. They can't do that unless they have an agile infrastructure fabric and an agile software capability to deliver those applications over those networks. >> All right well there's a lot to dig into yet. Let's start with NFV was the use case last year. Well 5G IOT definitely want to get into though but my understanding, I simplified it. NFV is just how the telcos can help deliver via software services they have. I mean think about how your set-top box, I can get channels and I can get certain programming. Is that kind of what you see, and how do they do their business model? >> Yeah traditionally, they bought appliances, hardware specific appliances. They put them in network operation centers and many thousands of those around the world. In the US there's tens of thousands of them. They're really moving more to a software based model where they don't necessarily need to buy a fixed appliance with its own silicone. They're going with commercial off-the-shelf x86 based technology and they're actually deploying that in what I call next generation data centers around Open Compute platform being an architecture, where you're looking at storage, compute, networking in a scalable fashion using open source technologies to deploy that in at massive scale. >> Very different from you think about like cloud might be a place where you have services run but the telcos are pushing services with their software out to their consumers. >> Yeah they're changing the core network infrastructure to support that and at the mobile edge in these network operation centers at the edge, they're making those more agile as well in order to push as many services out closely to the customer but also to aggregate content and data that their customers would acquire. So for example, you take a video clip on your phone, there's no point in storing that in the core of the network. You want to maybe store that at the edge, where maybe some of your friends would share it at that point in time, more efficient ways of drive that. >> I wonder if you can expand a little bit. That that term edge because we hear is that the edge of the network? Is that a mobile device? Is that a sensor for IOT in the telecom world? Is it all of the above? >> Well a lot of people use it is all the above but in the context I'm using it, it's at the edge of the network. It's not the device. That is a whole separate set of conversations, and things reach a very IOT-centric. At the moment, the telecommunications companies want to make the edge more efficient. They want to build clouds around the edge. They want to aggregate all those different clouds, and they want to build agile based infrastructure. So similarly to the way that Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google deliver their services today, they need to get into that space in order to be agile enough to develop and deploy their next generation of applications and services. >> So at this point OpenStack in its evolution with this customer vertical, it seems like we're not only talking about a cloud but maybe a cloud of clouds. >> Yes absolutely, I mean telcos again, they typically have one of everything. They are looking at decoupled solutions in terms of their network-based infrastructure. They want to be able to manage every layer of that infrastructure independently of the other layers in order to drive maximum flexibility and agility into their infrastructure but also so they don't get locked in to any one particular vendor. That's a big, big theme in the telco space. >> So you use the words agility and flexibility. So I in a previous lifetime, I did work with some telecom providers and they were not known for those words of agility and flexibility. We're in a world now with open source, with CICD, we talked about upgradability, a lot of the talk here at OpenStack is about manageability and flexibility and building, putting containers on top. Maybe we can go there next but do you, as you work with your customers and partners in the telecom space. It seems like they've had to have a cultural shift. I see a lot of people from the carriers here, right. They're as long haired and shaggy, and barefoot as any other engineer here at OpenStack summit. Has there been a real cultural shift inside telecom to accomplish this? >> Yeah, there's a real cultural shift that's ongoing. It's got a ways to go. The telcos themselves are engineeringly orientated. So they traditionally have come from an environment where we'll build it and customers will come. Now they're looking at we need to build it quicker and faster in order to attract customers, get them to come and view our services, get them addicted to a certain degree. Maybe the wrong word but to our content. So building sticky services, trying to reduce the churn they have in their business, driving innovation through open source because I think they've realized that innovation isn't necessarily within their own company. It sits elsewhere so which is the new Uber as it were? Which is new Airbnb? What is the new WhatsApp-based application? They want to create a network infrastructure that's flexible enough with all of those attributes through API so those companies can develop innovative next-generation content and services over their network infrastructure, in order to attract and make services sticky for their customers. >> Darrell, I wonder if you can speak to the complexity of the solutions in the telco space? Last year we spoke to Verizon, and they love what they have but they had to choose some glass, walk over some hot coals to be able to get the solution together. These are big complicated solutions. We've talked in general about OpenStack, and trying to simplify some of the complexity but can you speak to some of the how long it takes to roll these out and some of the effort involved for the telcos? >> Well it's it's sort of a walk, a cruel walk run process to a lot of that because A working with open source is very different than what they traditionally have done, and as you mentioned earlier, traditionally they'll buy an application through our appliance. They'll take nine months to deploy in all their centers. Then another three to six months later, they might switch it off. In the software agile world, they've got to condense that sort of 12 to 18 month period down to maybe three or four weeks. They may stand up a service for an event like the Olympics and then take it down after the Olympics. So there's a lot of complexity and change in the way that they need to deliver those services, and that complexity isn't trivial. So it involves delivering quality of service through the deployment of next generation network infrastructure because they are regulated companies. So they've got to maintain that quality of service in order to be able to bill, and meet the regulations that they they have to adhere to in the markets that they operate their network infrastructure. Very different from the Googles, the Facebooks of the world. They don't have that sort of regulation over their head. The telcos do so they have a level of discipline that they need to achieve in terms of availability of their network infrastructure, the availability of their services, the availability of their applications, and that links into a whole quality of service experience for their customers, and linked into their operation systems support, into their billing system and the list goes on, and on and on. So what we found at Red Hat is that, that is not trivial, that is hard, and a lot of the telcos are very engineeringly oriented. It's great working with them because they really understand the difficulties, and the fact that this is particularly hard. They also know that they want to build it and own it, and understand it themselves, because it's their business model. To them, the network is an asset. It's not something that they can just outsource to someone else, that doesn't necessarily understand that same degree of that asset. So they want to get their heads around that. >> So they need that reliability. From the eyes of a service provider how mature is OpenStack right now? Is it in production? Can they trust it? We're a few more than a few years into the OpenStack evolution so where are we in deployment? >> That, number of operators are in deployment. You mentioned one on a few months ago like Verizon. >> Stu: Yeah, AT&T is on stage. >> Absolutely, AT&T-- >> Deutsche Telekom, the headlines sponsored the event. >> Exactly, I mean, and what they're doing is they're starting very pragmatically. They're looking at specific services, and they're building slowly a service upon service upon service so they go from a crawl to walking, then to a run. I think, what we're seeing in OpenStack is not if but when these guys will deploy at mass scale. We're beginning now to see a general acceptance that this is a methodology and or a technology that they can deploy and will deploy in the NFE context. The other thing that's occurring in the space is they're looking at traditional IT workloads. So a telco-based cloud if you want to use that terminology is just as capable of running IT-based workloads and services as well. So a number of them are looking at their own enterprise and running those environments. Some of them are partnering with some of our partners to build OpenStack public cloud instances. So they want to try and attract services to that environment as well. >> It's interesting you point that out. There's been that ebbing flow of can the telco players be cloud as John pointed out. I worked in telecommunications back in the '90s. Agile and fast was not the thing of the day. One of the big companies who had bought a cloud company just sold off lots of their data centers. Do they feel that they're going to compete against the Amazon, Microsoft, Googles of the world? Do they think they'll be service providers? Where do they see is their natural fit in the cloud ecosystem? >> So my role is on a global basis. In North America, they don't want to, I don't think they feel they can compete in the way that you were intimating in that regard. However, where they do think they can compete and since we're going to probably talk about 5G and IOT, that is the area where they see public cloud applications and services being developed. So they're looking at the insurance industry, the automotive industry, the manufacturing industry, and creating an environment where those applications can be built to many many thousands of millions of devices connected to them. So I think the definition of in North America, of a public cloud infrastructure is going to evolve in that direction. In other markets such as Latin America and in Europe, some of the telecommunications companies believe that they can be competitive in that space. So more recently, Orange announced that they're working with OpenStack to deploy public cloud. Telefonica, Deutsche Telekom, China Mobile, America Movil, they're all using OpenStack to try and enter that specific market space. >> Okay, please talk to us about the 5G angles here. Obviously like Mobile World Congress, it was like be number one conversation. When we went to the Open Networking Summit, it was there. You're the first person to talk about it that I heard I didn't, maybe I missed it in one of the keynotes but you know none of our interviews has come out yet. So how does that fit into the OpenStack picture? >> So 5G is the reason why telcos are building NFEI, that they were NFE because they realize that to connect all of those devices to their network-based infrastructure, they need to do it intelligently, they need to do it at the edge, and they need to have a high degree of flexibility and agility to their network-based infrastructure to create an innovation environment for application developers to connect all those devices. So we talked about smart cars as a good example around 5G. You need low latency, you need the high availability, you need to be reliable, you need to provide all of that network infrastructure as an example plus you need a portfolio of developers that are going to create all sorts of different applications for those vehicles that we driving around on the street. So that without 5G, that does not happen. You're not, you know some metropolitan areas, the amount of connectivity that you have access to in terms of the traditional cloud-based access networking infrastructure doesn't facilitate the amount of density that 5G will actually facilitate. So you need to be able to change the basis in which you're building that infrastructure to lower the cost of the network in terms of being able to drive that. >> All right and I'm curious I think about the global reach we were just talking about. Usually, the global reach of a new technology like 5G lags a little bit in the rest of the world compared to Western Europe and North America. >> Well, I think in Asia, 5G is, if I look at what they're trying to do, the leading vendors ZTE, Samsung, Huawei, they're heavily invested in 5G-based infrastructure, and they don't have, their operators in those part of the world don't have an awful lot of legacy-based infrastructure to be able to have to replace. They can get there a lot faster. The other thing is with 5G, for them, the applications and services in the way that people experience network-based access or Internet if for want of another word is very different than way that maybe we experience it here in the US or in Europe. So I think you're going to see different applications and different business models evolve in different markets in Asia than you would say here in North America. In North America, I think that it's going to take a lot of the operators different business models to look at maybe some of the higher order of applications and services that drive stickiness for their own infrastructure and network services but also some of the more advanced applications like I mentioned smart cars or smart homes, or smart cities or energy or better ways of delivering products in terms of distribution to your home, those those types of applications and services we won't necessarily in some of those other markets be there and similarly for Europe. >> All right Darrell Jordan-Smith, really appreciate you joining us, giving us all the updates on telco, how it fits with OpenStack. Jon Troyer and I will be back with lots more coverage here from the OpenStack summit 2017 in Boston. You're watching The CUBE (upbeat music)

>> Q. At service now Knowledge fourteen is sponsored by service. Now here are your hosts, Dave Volonte and Jeff Frick. >> We're back. Sheila Jordan is here. She's the CEO of Symantec. We're live. This is the Cube. We're at service now. Knowledge fourteen at Mosconi in San Francisco. We're going to hear today, Wednesday and most of Thursday. So stop by. If you're at Mosconi, Mosconi south, Come in. Look to the right. Cuba's there. Stop by and say hello. Shelley. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you >> very much. Excited to be here. >> Yes, sir. You were across the street. I guess that, uh, the CEO event, right. What's what's the vibe like over there? Describe it. >> Well, I would say this about that three hundred or so CEOs and it really is fascinating because everyone's kind of discovering how important the clouds becoming and how relevant, Because becoming in the in the CIA world, it was years ago. It was more about if the clouds coming. And now it's here. And it's a question of CEOs of struggling whether answer, The question is, how does this really integrate with kind on from solutions? So, really, it's making the cloud more and more real. >> You know, it's interesting. Five years ago, if I asked the CIA about the clouds, you know, they would say It's another quiver in the another arrow in the quiver and you know we're looking at it. It's at its centre and some might say, Hey, we're not using the cloud, especially financial services. But practitioners would roll their eyes on the clouds. The clouds, I t. What do you mean? The cloud that cloud, the cloud that seems to have changed on the practitioner bases is more accepting of that notion of the cloud. What's changed? >> Well, I was a couple things. One is, I think, that when we used to kind of roll, our eyes were very concerned about the security of the cloud, for sure. And I think with the cloud providers have seen lots of improvements in the security angle. Nothing I'LL tell you is in it. We constantly get the pressure of delivering things faster and cheaper, and the cloud offers us that solution to be able to deliver things faster and cheaper, whether that's, you know, for your HR systems or whether that's for something of a solution. So promise Israel. We're beginning to see that, and I think they're really shoring up the security aspects of this. How >> does it change your roll? One of the changes that are sort of required from CEOs. Perspective. >> Yeah, I will say that I think that the CEO today is really focused on five big things mobile cloud structure and unstructured data. So the whole day to play as well as, you know, kind of your personal or professional identity. And then, of course, the final one is the Internet of everything. So Mohr devices coming into the enterprise. And I really think the thing that flows through those five things is two things. One is data that flows through that. So where the data is sourced from a cloud or on crime, the end user wants to have a similar experience whether we're the data source from and the second component is of course, you know how weak secure that. You know, The whole notion of security is becoming more and more critical that, you know, security things at the network layer is good, but in the end, device is good. But now we're being asked to really make sure that we're securing things across the entire enterprise stack. While everything's changing devices are changing, the sourcing is changing as well as you know now the new devices with the Internet of things. >> We do a lot of big data shows and it talks about the data is the new oil and, you know, the data centric organization. How real is that? It that Samantha? I mean, you've only been there three months, I know, but you know, least on your observations, just semantic. But generally in your community, how real is that? >> I think is very real. In fact, I would say that the job of the CEO is to protect the company's assets and to protect the data. And that's assumed that the employees assume that the CIA was going to do that. It's certainly become a bit more difficult, given cybercriminals are getting smarter and there's more hackers and more were ways to hack and, of course, the devices coming in. But I still think that the role of the CEO has to be to protect the country's assets. >> There's an interesting discussion we have. We actually do a conference in chief Data officer conference with them it in July, and the premise that Emmett has put forth is that chief data officer is a new role in the organization should be independent of the CIA, should appear of the CEO and have ownership over, you know, a lot of different. So the data assets the data taxonomy, data sources. It's still fuzzy where the lines are done. When you talkto a lot of the big data practitioners, they say, No way. That's the CEO's job. Um, have you thought about that much in terms of you need the datas are Are you the datas are? >> Yeah, I actually think you could, but especially, I think it depends on certain industries would make that more more >> realistic. Air Service is the regular. >> Actually think the chief information officer has information and data already, and I think that's a big part of our role. So whether it's a separate role or not, the coordination, the combination and reliance on each roll is really critical. >> So don't you have enough to do? Yes, well, now they wanted to innovate right way force of innovation. They want you to be a business partner of Value Creator outside of just the acid. So how does that all playing? Well, measure And >> that's why I guess it's so fun. We've always said that being an I t you gotta like change and being an I t for aninety company, you're really gonna like change. And I would say that it is What's exciting about the CIA role is yes, I can't authorize it simplistically, but it's around, run the business, changed the business and grow the business. And if historically, it might have been that CEOs were just about run the business, not anymore. CEOs are expecting us to run, change and grow. And we got to find solutions and technology cost effectively of how we can do that. >> And now you've got all these megatrends hitting you like a ton of bricks. Like you said, Cloud Mobile social. How's that kind of change the game in the last couple of years? >> Well, I thinkit's both exciting and daunting at the same time. I think it's exciting because it does open things up and again. Most of our employees are also our. All of our employees are consumers, so they're having this consumer like experience and they want to come into it and they want to come to work and now the same kind of experience. So I think it opens up a whole new way for us to deliver services. And one of the things we're working on in semantics is to create a services led organisation. What? We actually are delivering services. So your email services you're content service, your video service, your pricing service so that we can really deliver these services in a way that you have consumed the services as a consumer. >> So you used to be a mean still is most like tea shops. Talk about systems, you know? Sure, it's covered by claims system. That's where my investment is going. It's this big silo infrastructure built around. Do you see that changing? Where were the parlance, even changes to my services? This is my service catalog. Salome Charging for >> that. Yes, I do. Pretty sixteen pretty substantially. And we're implementing that kind of service is lead mentality. It's semantic now, and the reason is because the system of the applications is at some level kind of irrelevant. You know, you gotta replace systems and applications, but ultimately you don't want to replace the service customer. Our employees want to get used to having that video service. They really don't care anymore where it sourced from on from in the cloud, and they don't necessarily care about what technology was used to get there. They want their service. So I think as a ninety organization won by creating the services led organisation, you are really clear about how you're spending the dollars and really clear about how the transparency of the cost of those services and then really clear to your point. You know, I love to shop on the Internet as a consumer, and I'm so used to picking and clicking right. And so we want to deliver services that simply to the organization that people understand the service in the cost of the services. >> So did you see I love the whole concept of portfolio management, the application portfolio, run, the business, grow the business transformed business, the old meta group, you know, taxonomy. I love that and and And I could see I used to work with CEOs all the time, and they would actually use that and say, OK, we're just going to subjectively say, Here's my run. The business absence. My grows, the business grow. The business has transformed the business. We're going to allocate the portfolio accordingly. Do you look at your services catalogue the same way. And how does it where would you like to see it? It's It's very difficult to get out of that seventy thirty year, you know, because by definition, you're always running. Yes, you know so But how do you look at that? That mix and how do you What's your ideal mix? >> Well, it's very difficult because you do have to do kind of portfolio planning, but I do think with Cloud Solutions it offices offers us a different solution to be more cost effective and agile. So clearly you're gonna have some and run the business. But I'm not necessarily spending a lot of money on the actual infrastructure to take some on from solutions that we used to do. So the cost will be total cost of ownership. It should be less with some of the cloud services. That's the promise. So when I think about run, grow change, I know other sources like Gardner and Forrester will say that a large enterprise company spends sixty five seventy percent on run the business. Still, even though I've made all these advancements, we haven't aspirational goal. It's Samantha Guy t. I'm not sure we can get there because again it feeds. But if we could get to a point that we are really a third, a third a third, wouldn't it be cool if I could deliver two thirds of the spent on change and grow versus run? So it's aspirational, but I'm not giving you that. >> But you know what? So maybe maybe we're thinking about the wrong way, because maybe that's an impossible equation to solve. Maybe we should be looking. I wonder if you'd get your feedback on this just struck me. Maybe we should think about it like almost like product cycles. I remember one of the CEOs around here. We usedto be very proud of the fact that a product cycle intensive business said seventy percent of the products that we have, you know, on the seventy percent of our revenue is coming from products that we've announced in the last twelve months. Maybe that's how we should be looking out for, because by definition they're going to be more modern, more innovative, and with the services catalog approach, you may be able to do that. These are the services that we've launched in the last X number of months, we could look att consumption. Do you think that's ah, Reasonable, >> I think is actually interesting way to look at. And I would say that was some of the things that service now is actually introducing. You know, one of the things we want A ninety is just visibility. What service is being used if I had a rank them and them? Ranking and writing. Oh, they four stars, five stars. We want that visibility across organization and delete, delete, delete. The things are defective and that aren't working sometimes the nineteen. We don't know that or see that. So one of the things I think it's really important is with service now or any other solutions is that when we get that visibility, we could go back and say to the organization, Look for people using the service. You know, it's no longer effective as it used to be, less deleted and again that feeds into that cost savings will feed into run the business and growing >> Jr s getting rid of stuff. We never get rid of stuff. And I really that's my goal is value. We have to leave. You need to leave Well, That's interesting that you put a different twist on. We hear a lot about now the apus king, right? Everyone is about the at the at the AP line of business was to build your own app. But you're really putting the certain delivering. The APP is a service above explore application and knocking down the value of the particular app that delivers that service. >> Yeah, I am, for a couple reasons. First of all, not miso and a mobile device you're going to need your absolute All are addicted to our certain laps, for sure. But the reason why I think about that on the Enterprise is because a service is going to be ultimately comprised of the technology process and culture and people, right. So a nap in my mind still gets us to just the technology. When reality To make these service Israel and continue to optimize the services, you're gonna need the service owner. You got people in process to really optimize that service. So it's the super structure >> right above the to deliver the revised >> Yes, yes, and that's a really good point. I think in the past it is always and we always will be held the total cost of ownership. It's really, really, really critical that we show and be fully transparent of our cost. But I actually think with the new technology that's available and we're being expected by our CEO's is we have to deliver value as muchas cost value at a reduced cost or an approved cost. But I think the the conversation needs to continue to push. What's the value that technology can deliver? Not on ly the Kansai, and that's happening. >> We heard earlier today. Friend of yourself, Frank Ski? No, but he was talking about how you had, you know? So the traditional days you got application group, you got infrastructure group infrastructure does operations. They you know, they take the code and take it. You know, the employees at the application guys, you know, we all know the story. Now you see the devil ops culture you're seeing programmable infrastructure. Is that happening in your organization? You see those sort of two worlds defusing or morphing into the business and becoming a devil sculpture >> in pocket. So and say where we have those labs or where we have proof of concepts in pockets, Yes, hasn't been pervasively changed in the organization. Not quite yet. And I think a couple things One is we're in some ways just learning about kind of infrastructure as a service and how I can actually you push up a server and fifteen seconds or less type thing and provisions at server in fifteen seconds. So we're learning as an organization, the whole sum or is Asians are simply better than others, but we're learning on the whole infrastructure of the service. We're learning how we could deliver the applications as a service. So I think the next net and so we're using agile development things and scrums and things like that. But I think the next natural evolution is Dev Ops. Now, I would say that you gotta be kind of careful and where you play and push that because it's a holy learning. You gotta make sure the people challenge. You have been really? Yeah, skills and talents. But I do think it's the next next area, folks. >> So we'LL pick up on infrastructure is a service. We obviously you got the gold standard of of Amazon. Look at him. He's gonna go. Wow, That's pretty impressive what they've done do you look at that and say, OK, there's a big chunk stuff in the margins development that we should just put in tow that cloud Or do you say, why don't we duplicate that? Replicate that in house. Which approach do you think your organization? Well, >> for almost two reasons we're doing Private Cloud. You know, again, I want to be the biggest proof point of semantics products that I possibly can. So that means I have to be customer one toe are semantic products and test them out and make sure we're giving the feed back back to the semantic group. So we're building our private cloud inside semantic right now, which really will become that infrastructure as a service using the latest and greatest technology software to find networks, etcetera, that we're really going to get the whole stack that allows us to do that. And I will tell you that that where we are today versus what the vision is, it will actually leapfrog the foundation of what we're able to do with the company. >> Okay, so So you want essentially duplicate that and guess what You know, the public loud guys are doing That's very secure environment pressures on. Yes, Believe me, I know in time. So now now does that chance. Talking about skill sets before they change the type of people you need to bring in, you have to hire more PHDS way. >> Well, it's not really the species is the real technical talent that no, this new space. So again we had done a several years. Semitic has outsourced their I t organization. And as we bring that in, we gotta make sure and bring in the right skills that supports the new technology. >> So also, outsourcing ended up being, you know, sort of my mess for less, and then it ended up not being less so. You know, a lot of guys have brought that back in, but okay, so you sort of replicated, tryto, tryto leapfrog that capability. Do you become a a profit center? >> Oh, I think it's dangerous. I think it's a real slippery slope if it becomes a profit center. And the reason I say that, it's because I think our focus and our number one job is to really deliver an optimal excellent experience for employees while providing again being in it for ninety company. I think our job is to make sure we deliver the best experience we can while showcasing our products internally and testing and using them. The second you have another motive or another driver, I think it takes the eye. >> So I kind of agree with you. I mean, I do what I don't In the one hand, if you were to sell your services externally than I gave him that, I would disagree, Right? But because you've got a captive audience, you saying you would basically monopolistic power, corrupt, like all monopoly, we >> can certainly come up with what I've pushed suggested my team is way can come up with a whole bunch of ideas of how to improve the product. Or maybe there's a gap in our product strategy that we can suggest to the business unit. So I think in that case, as we come up with and we are the number one customer of our products, that we have ways to enhance it before the product goes to market or opens up another opportunity. Our business unit leaders are really open >> Now. What about chargebacks? Okay, so you're not going profit center. What about chargebacks? >> You know, another thing that I think is a pretty slippery slope. You know cross charging charge bags. It's a complex overhead that ifyou're one company, why do you add that I'm a real a real simple person, and I just like it simple and easy as someone hold accountable and >> companies don't do it, they fif. Fifteen percent of companies will do charge back. It sort of stuck there >> a lot of a lot of over a lot. Yeah, and I'd rather drive accountability into the person that's delivering the service has accountability to do that. It's cost effectively as possible. >> So, Sheila, on the Five Things you mentioned, one of them was your your personality. Well, it was a personal thing I know is you went to a very quickly. >> I'm sorry. So five big trends that I see happening from a knight from a trending perspective in the industry that CIA is really going to need to be thinking about it. And they have already This isn't new, but I do think the five together is pretty powerful. It's of course, mobility, right? It's cloud all the cloud services. Third is around data. So both unstructured and structure data coming together. And of course, I think Nirvana on that one is when unstructured data could be fed into part of the decision. Making like structure data is right. That's going interesting. The fourth is the convergence of personal professional identities. So people are coming into the organization with their mobile phones and they want one phone. They want one device. So how does it professionals and what's the right solution for different industries merged, or at least containerized, whichever one you want to do? The personal versus professional identities and in the last one is, of course, mobility is one thing. But all this explosion of other devices >> get me on the mobile, >> right? And so and then what? Lose all that together is data and, of course, security way have to make sure all that secured as we traverse all those different trends. >> Actually, we're here. Where do you report into the organization >> by reporter Seo Stevens? Let >> Seo. Okay, so let's say Stephen's doing your performance review. You know, when you came on its okay, these air, your objectives if you maybe, you know, you guys write it together. What a Your objectives for the next twelve months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting times, it's semantic, and I would say that we've agreed that it is been there now sixty days so over. Greed is really this. Insourcing is a pretty big effort initiative and especially around how we can stand up our own data center, our own network, all the others ligation migration. It's a pretty big effort. The other part, I would tell you, is pretty important for semantic right now. Is the global Security Office reports to me as well, so understanding the security risks and making sure that we really do have have understood and really being thought, leadership in the security space. That's kind of number two. And I would say, in general the overall services lead how we change the structure of the organization, the number three >> and and I would imagine here on early consumer of a lot of the semantics security product. >> Yes, they are. >> So you must be pretty important. Constituent throttle groups have a lot of a lot of juice with those guys. It >> that's part of the job it's really, really fun is when we could actually provide some important feedback on their products and see it see it built into the road map. It gets quite exciting >> So how you know, we heard again Frank this morning saying, Look, see, I always gotta know as much about the business is business people do. That's that's a tall order, especially in a company the size of a semantic. But do you buy that? At least in part on How do you How do you develop that knowledge? >> Well, I would say that, you know, first of all, yes, I buy into it. I really do think and again it goes back to being in it for ninety company Being there customer you have. You have a pretty big seat at the table, and I think it's really important that you're not only giving advice and counsel on, you know, the product strategy and where we think there could be potential gaps and where things could be improved. But you also have to tell someone you know what that price old or we don't want to use that anymore or show some of the some of the inefficiencies in the product. So I think one is being absolutely tied to the product strategy, and having a voice in the product strategy is really critical. And again, I think, given that you represent the customer base at that table is also quite exciting. >> You go to sales meeting. >> I'm actually not yet sixty days, but we actually have a big customer meeting coming up next week which I'll be attending. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a great way to learn about the products and the challenges. >> Yes, that too. And I love talking to the customers in my previous rules, like talkto the customers in line. >> So they talk about the evolution of the rules, Theo in the not tech company, um, and change of tech as a competitive different theater in York Disney for you before Cisco Ice Arlington. So how is that changing >> lights? They Actually, it's kind of similar challenges in being an I t. For the tech company. You really are kind of tied to the product of being an instrumental influence in the product strategy. That's one in a non tech company. You are challenged with this whole notion. Well, that's what I get as a consumer. So I still even thinking a non titan technology company when they come to work and they have a less technical experience in the user. Experience is less than one way to get at home. I think consumers in general are just getting smarter and smarter. Smarter about I have that that email storage ten acts that at home I have my mobile device that were You know, all these things that were experienced as consumers is coming into all the industries in that expectation of I wanna work differently is just that you get on company >> with no appreciation of what it means even more just the magic in the Magic Kingdom about that conversation we had before. I mean, is the gold toe really replicate that or just get good enough? You know, I think you know Microsoft. There we say suffers Good enough. They made a ton of money and good enough business because can you get there because you're talking about scale of Amazon and Google and Facebook and Microsoft? So do you have to be just good enough? Where do you have to be? Good as good or better? You said leapfrog back, or that was that was notable. >> Gonna leapfrog our data center structure data center strategy. What I think is I do think in delivering a servant out has two teenage children in college, and they sometimes wonder. You know why work is that both now manage the enterprise, and they can't quite figure out talking to interns at work. They can't figure out why they don't have. This is twenty twenty one. Yes, I can't quite figure out why the experiences the same. And when I told my children as well as the intern Group, I says, Listen, work is a bit more complicated than face the pictures and status, you know, work really is. And as a nineteen professional, you have this obligation and responsibility to protect the company's assets. So, no, do I ever want to get to a point that it's as easy as Facebook? What do I ever want to get to a point that you know, pictures on instagram and things like that? It's not practical to put that in the enterprise. Do I want to get to a point that their applications that they use on a daily basis and we're driving a sales sales forecast and it's really important that timely and decision making of that as an app on their phone? Yes, I do. >> And it's self serving self service mobile. >> So yes, I think we have to be really careful and really explicit about what app. So the right APS for work and what happens to the ones that you know are just too much risk >> that this expectation set in communications and all the stuff that new CEO has really got a good act with a head of steam. It's good crystal. All right? Shall we gotta leave it there? Thanks very much for coming with >> me as well. Thank >> you. Thank you. All right, but keep it right there. We'LL be back to wrap up Day one from service now. Knowledge, We're live. This's the Cube right back.

>> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World," sponsored by HPE and Intel. Today we're going to discuss the new 4th Gen Intel Xeon Scalable process impact on containers and AI. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, and I'm joined by three experts to guide us along. We have Jordan Plum, Senior Director of AI and products for Intel, Bradley Sweeney, Big Data and AI Product Manager, Mainstream Compute Workloads at HPE, and Gary Wang, Containers Product Manager, Mainstream Compute Workloads at HPE. Welcome to the program gentlemen. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you for having us. >> This segment is going to be talking about containers to deploy high performance AI applications. This is a really important area right now. We're seeing a lot more AI deployed, kind of next gen AI coming. How is HPE supporting and testing and delivering containers for AI? >> Yeah, so what we're doing from HPE's perspective is we're taking these container platforms, combining with the next generation Intel servers to fully validate the deployment of the containers. So what we're doing is we're publishing the reference architectures. We're creating these automation scripts, and also creating a monitoring and security strategy for these container platforms. So for customers to easily deploy these Kubernete clusters and to easily secure their community environments. >> Gary, give us a quick overview of the new Proliant DL 360 and 380 Gen 11 servers. >> Yeah, the load, for example, for container platforms what we're seeing mostly is the DL 360 and DL 380 for matching really well for container use cases, especially for AI. The DL 360, with the expended now the DDR five memory and the new PCI five slots really, really helps the speeds to deploy these container environments and also to grow the data that's required to store it within these container environments. So for example, like the DL 380 if you want to deploy a data fabric whether it's the Ezmeral data fabric or different vendors data fabric software you can do so with the DL 360 and DL 380 with the new Intel Xeon processors. >> How does HP help customers with Kubernetes deployments? >> Yeah, like I mentioned earlier so we do a full validation to ensure the container deployment is easy and it's fast. So we create these automation scripts and then we publish them on GitHub for customers to use and to reference. So they can take that and then they can adjust as they need to. But following the deployment guide that we provide will make the, deploy the community deployment much easier, much faster. So we also have demo videos that's also published and then for reference architecture document that's published to guide the customer step by step through the process. >> Great stuff. Thanks everyone. We'll be going to take a quick break here and come back. We're going to do a deep dive on the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable process and the impact on AI and containers. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. We'll be right back. (intense music) Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World" series. I'm John Furrier with the Cube, joined by Jordan Plum with Intel, Bradley Sweeney with HPE, and Gary Wang from HPE. We're going to do a drill down and do a deeper dive into the AI containers with the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable processors we appreciate your time coming in. Jordan, great to see you. I got to ask you right out of the gate, what is the view right now in terms of Intel's approach to containers for AI? It's hot right now. AI is booming. You're seeing kind of next gen use cases. What's your approach to containers relative to AI? >> Thanks John and thanks for the question. With the fourth generation Xeon scalable processor launch we have tested and validated this platform with over 400 deep learning and machine learning models and workloads. These models and workloads are publicly available in the framework repositories and they can be downloaded by anybody. Yet customers are not only looking for model validation they're looking for model performance and performance is usually a combination of a given throughput at a target latency. And to do that in the data center all the way to the factory floor, this is not always delivered from these generic proxy models that are publicly available in the industry. >> You know, performance is critical. We're seeing more and more developers saying, "Hey, I want to go faster on a better platform, faster all the time." No one wants to run slower stuff, that's for sure. Can you talk more about the different container approaches Intel is pursuing? >> Sure. First our approach is to meet the customers where they are and help them build and deploy AI everywhere. Some customers just want to focus on deployment they have more mature use cases, and they just want to download a model that works that's high performing and run. Others are really focused more on development and innovation. They want to build and train models from scratch or at least highly customize them. Therefore we have several container approaches to accelerate the customer's time to solution and help them meet their business SLA along their AI journey. >> So what developers can just download these containers and just go? >> Yeah, so let me talk about the different kinds of containers we have. We start off with pre-trained containers. We'll have about 55 or more of these containers where the model is actually pre-trained, highly performant, some are optimized for low latency, others are optimized for throughput and the customers can just download these from Intel's website or from HPE and they can just go into production right away. >> That's great. A lot of choice. People can just get jump right in. That's awesome. Good, good choice for developers. They want more faster velocity. We know that. What else does Intel provide? Can you share some thoughts there? What you guys else provide developers? >> Yeah, so we talked about how hey some are just focused on deployment and they maybe they have more mature use cases. Other customers really want to do some more customization or optimization. So we have another class of containers called development containers and this includes not just the kind of a model itself but it's integrated with the framework and some other capabilities and techniques like model serving. So now that customers can download just not only the model but an entire AI stack and they can be sort of do some optimizations but they can also be sure that Intel has optimized that specific stack on top of the HPE servers. >> So it sounds simple to just get started using the DL model and containers. Is that it? Where, what else are customers looking for? What can you take a little bit deeper? >> Yeah, not quite. Well, while the customer customer's ability to reproduce performance on their site that HPE and Intel have measured in our own labs is fantastic. That's not actually what the customer is only trying to do. They're actually building very complex end-to-end AI pipelines, okay? And a lot of data scientists are really good at building models, really good at building algorithms but they're less experienced in building end-to-end pipelines especially 'cause the number of use cases end-to-end are kind of infinite. So we are building end-to-end pipeline containers for use cases like media analytics and sentiment analysis, anomaly detection. Therefore a customer can download these end-to-end containers, right? They can either use them as a reference, just like, see how we built them and maybe they have some changes in their own data center where they like to use different tools, but they can just see, "Okay this is what's possible with an end-to-end container on top of an HPE server." And other cases they could actually, if the overlap in the use case is pretty close, they can just take our containers and go directly into production. So this provides developers, all three types of containers that I discussed provide developers an easy starting point to get them up and running quickly and make them productive. And that's a really important point. You talked a lot about performance, John. But really when we talk to data scientists what they really want to be is productive, right? They're under pressure to change the business to transform the business and containers is a great way to get started fast >> People take product productivity, you know, seriously now with developer productivity is the hottest trend obviously they want performance. Totally nailed it. Where can customers get these containers? >> Right. Great, thank you John. Our pre-trained model containers, our developmental containers, and our end-to-end containers are available at intel.com at the developer catalog. But we'd also post these on many third party marketplaces that other people like to pull containers from. And they're frequently updated. >> Love the developer productivity angle. Great stuff. We've still got more to discuss with Jordan, Bradley, and Gary. We're going to take a short break here. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. We'll be right back. (intense music) Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World." I'm John Furrier with theCUBE and we'll be discussing and wrapping up our discussion on containers to deploy high performance AI. This is a great segment on really a lot of demand for AI and the applications involved. And we got the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable processors with HP Gen 11 servers. Bradley, what is the top AI use case that Gen 11 HP Proliant servers are optimized for? >> Yeah, thanks John. I would have to say intelligent video analytics. It's a use case that's supplied across industries and verticals. For example, a smart hospital solution that we conducted with Nvidia and Artisight in our previous customer success we've seen 5% more hospital procedures, a 16 times return on investment using operating room coordination. With that IVA, so with the Gen 11 DL 380 that we provide using the the Intel four gen Xeon processors it can really support workloads at scale. Whether that is a smart hospital solution whether that's manufacturing at the edge security camera integration, we can do it all with Intel. >> You know what's really great about AI right now you're starting to see people starting to figure out kind of where the value is does a lot of the heavy lifting on setting things up to make humans more productive. This has been clearly now kind of going neck level. You're seeing it all in the media now and all these new tools coming out. How does HPE make it easier for customers to manage their AI workloads? I imagine there's going to be a surge in demand. How are you guys making it easier to manage their AI workloads? >> Well, I would say the biggest way we do this is through GreenLake, which is our IT as a service model. So customers deploying AI workloads can get fully-managed services to optimize not only their operations but also their spending and the cost that they're putting towards it. In addition to that we have our Gen 11 reliance servers equipped with iLO 6 technology. What this does is allows customers to securely manage their server complete environment from anywhere in the world remotely. >> Any last thoughts or message on the overall fourth gen intel Xeon based Proliant Gen 11 servers? How they will improve workload performance? >> You know, with this generation, obviously the performance is only getting ramped up as the needs and requirements for customers grow. We partner with Intel to support that. >> Jordan, gimme the last word on the container's effect on AI applications. Your thoughts as we close out. >> Yeah, great. I think it's important to remember that containers themselves don't deliver performance, right? The AI stack is a very complex set of software that's compiled together and what we're doing together is to make it easier for customers to get access to that software, to make sure it all works well together and that it can be easily installed and run on sort of a cloud native infrastructure that's hosted by HPE Proliant servers. Hence the title of this talk. How to use Containers to Deploy High Performance AI Applications. Thank you. >> Gentlemen. Thank you for your time on the Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World sponsored by HPE and Intel. Again, I love this segment for AI applications Containers to Deploy Higher Performance. This is a great topic. Thanks for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thanks John. >> Okay, I'm John. We'll be back with more coverage. See you soon. (soft music)