>> Speaker: From around the Globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon Live 2020, brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, how you doing? Welcome to DockerCon. We're kind of halfway through now, I guess. Thank you for joining us on this session. So my name is Elton, I'm a Docker Captain. And I'm joined by Julie who was also a Docker Captain. This is actually this session was Julie's idea. We were talking about this learning of Docker and how it's a light bulb moment for lots of people. But Julie, she came up with this great idea for DevOps. So I'll let Julie introduce herself, and tell you a bit about what we're going to talk about. >> Thanks, Elton. So I'm Julie Lerman. I'm a Software Coach. I'm a developer. I've been a developer for over 30 years. I work independently and I'm a Docker captain. Also a Microsoft Regional Director. I wouldn't let them put it on there, because it makes people think I work for Microsoft but I don't. (he laughs) >> Yeah, so it's a weird title. So the Microsoft ID the Regional Director, it's like a kind of Uber, MVP. So I'm an MVP. And that's fine. That's just like a community recognition, just like you get with a Docker captain. So MVP is kind of like the micro version, Julie's MVP too. But then you get the Regional Director which is something that MVP get. >> Doesn't matter. >> I'm not surprised Julie. >> Stop, a humble man. (he laughs) >> We've been using Docker for years 10 years between. >> You probably, how long ago was your Docker aha moment? >> So 2014 I first started using Docker, so I was working on a project, where I was assaulting for a team who were building an Android tablet, and they were building the whole thing, so they Spec out the tablet, they got a bill over in the far East. They were building their own OS their own app to run on and of course all that stacks within it. But they was all talking to the services that were running in the power they wanted to use as your for that and .NET that was on-prem, though that technology historically . So I came in to do the .NET stuff is running in as your, but I got really friendly with the Linux guys. It was very DevOps, it was one team who did the whole thing. And they were using Docker for that their build tools, and for have the and the CI tools, and they were running their own get server and it was all in. >> Already until 2014. That's pretty cool. >> Yeah, pretty early introduction to it. And it was super cool. So I'd always been interested in Linux, but never really dug into it. Because the entry bar was so high runs nothing in it. So you read about this great open source project, and then you go and look at the documentation and you have to download the source code and build it and it's like, well, I'm not going to be doing that stuff. And then Docker came along. I do Docker run. (he laughs) >> Well, I would say it was a little definitely delayed from that. I'm still thinking Wait, when you first started saying that this company was building their own android system, you start thinking, they're building software, but no, they weren't building everything, which is pretty amazing. So, I have to say it took me quite a while, but I was also behind on understanding virtual machines. (both laughs) So, Docker comes along, and I have lots of friends who are using it, I spent a lot of time with Michelle Noorali this Monday, and she's big container person. And most of the people I hear talking about Docker are really doing DevOps, which is not my thing. As a developer, I always just said, let somebody else do that stuff. I want to code an architect and do things like that. And I also do a lot of data work. I'm not like a big data person doing analytics. Or I'm not a DBA. I'm more very involved in getting data in and out of applications. So my aha moment, I would say was like, four years ago, after Microsoft moved SQL Server over to Linux, and then put it inside a Docker image. So that was my very first experience, just saying, oh, what does this do and I downloaded the image. And Docker run. And then like literally I was like, holy smokes. SQL Servers already installed. The containers up like that, and then it's got to run a couple of Bashan SQL scripts to get all the system tables, and databases and things like that. So that's another 15 seconds. But that was literally for me. The not really aha, it was more like OMG, and I'll keep the EFF out just to keep it clean here. It was my OMG moment with Docker. So getting that start, then I worked with the SQL Server image and container and did some different things, with that in applications. And then eventually, expanded my knowledge out bit by bit, and got a deeper understanding of it and tried more things. So I get to a comfort level and then add to it and add to it. >> Yeah. And I think that the great thing about that is that as you're going on that journey that aha moments keep coming, along we had another aha moment this week, with the new announcement that you can use your Docker compose files, and use your Docker commands to spin stuff up running in as your container instances. So like that you've kept up that learning journey is there if you want to go down, How do I take my monolithic application, and break up into pieces and run those in containers? Like suddenly the fact that you can just glue all these things together in run it on one platform, and manage everything in the same way? And these light bulbs keep on coming. So, you've seen the modernization things that people are doing that's a lot of the work that I do now, and taking these big applications, you just write a Docker file, and you've got your 15 year old .NET application running in the container. And you can run that in the cloud with no changes to code, and not see them. But that's super powerful for people. >> And I think one of the really important things, especially for people like you and I, who are also teachers, and is to try to really remember that moment, because I know a lot of times, when people are deeply expert in something it they forget how hard it was, or what it felt like not to understand it that context. So I still have held on to that. So when I talk, I like to do introduction, I like to help people get that aha moment. And then I say, Okay, now go on to the, they're really expert people. You're ready to learn more, but it's really important to especially, maybe we're teachers, conference speakers, book authors, pluralsight, etc. But lots of other people, who are working on teams they might already be somebody who's gotten there with Docker, and they want to help their teammates understand Docker. So I think it's really important to, for everybody who wants to share that to kind of have a little empathy, and remember what that was like, and understand that sometimes it just takes explaining it a different way explaining maybe, just tweaking your expression, or some of the words or your analogies. >> Yeah, that's definitely true. And you often find this it's a technology, that people really become affectionate for, they have a real deep feeling for documents, once they start using it, and you get these internal champions in companies who say, "This is the stuff I've been using, I've been using this at home or whatever." And they want to bring it into their project, and it's pretty cool to be able to say to them this is, take me on the same journey that you've been on, or you've been on a journey, which was probably slightly more investment for you, because you had to learn from scratch. But now you can relay that back into your own project. So you can take, you don't have to take everyone from scratch like you did. You can say, here's the Docker file for our own application. This is how it works. And bringing things into the terms that people are using everyday , I think is something that's super powerful. Why because you're completely strange. (he laughs) >> Oh, I was being really cool about your video. (both laughs) Maybe it's just how it streaming back to me. I think the teacher thing again, like we'll work a little harder and, bump our knees and stub our toes, or tear our hair out or whatever pain we have to go through, with that learning because, it's also kind of obsessive. And you can steer people away from those things, although it's also helpful to let them be aware like this might happen, and if it does, it's because of this. But that's not the happy path. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think, it's really interesting talking to people about the time you're trying to get to what problem are they trying to solve? It's interesting, you talk about DevOps there, and how that sort of not an area, that you've done a lot of stuff in. Writing a couple of organizations, whether they're really trying hard to move that model, and trying to break down the barriers, between the team who build the software, and the team who run the software, but they have those barriers, but 20 years, it's really hard to write that stuff down. And it's a big cultural shift, it needs a lot of investment. But if you can make a technological change as well, if you can get people using the same tools, the same languages, the same processes to do things, that makes it so much easier. Like now my operators are using Docker files, on there and the security team are going into the Docker file and cozening it, or DevOps team or building up my compose file, and everyone's using the same thing, it really helps a lot, to bind people together to work on the same area. >> I also do a lot of work in domain Dave Vellante design, and that whole idea of collaboration, and bringing together teams, that don't normally work together, and bringing them together, and enabling them to find a way to collaborate giving them tools for collaboration, just like what you're saying with, having the same terms and using the same tools. So that's really powerful. You gave me a great example of one of your clients, aha moments with Docker. Do you remember which that was? The money yes, it's a very powerful Aha. >> Yes. >> She cherish that. >> The company that I've worked for before, when I was doing still get thought that I can sort a thing, and they knew I'd go into containers. I was working for Docker at the time. And I went in just as if I wasn't a sales pitch or anything, I was just as a favor to talk to them about what containers would look like if payments, their operation, big heavy Windows users, huge number of environment, lots of VMs that are all running stuff, to get the isolation, and give them what they needed. And I did this presentation of IT. So it wasn't a technical thing. It was very high level, it was about how containers kind of work. And I'm fundamentally a technical person, so I probably have more detail in there. And then you would get from a sales pitch, but it was very much about, you can take your applications, you can wrap them up the running these things for containers, you still get the isolation, you can run loads more of them on the same hardware that you've got, and you don't pay a Windows license each of those containers, you pay a license for the server that the right one. >> That's it, that's the moment. >> And the head of IT said that's going to save us millions of dollars. (he laughs) And that was his aha moment. >> I'm going to wrap that into my conference session, about getting to the Docker, for sure getting that aha moment. My experience is less that but wow, I mean, that's so powerful. When you're talking to come C level people about making those kinds of changes, because you need to have their buy in. So as a developer and somebody who works with developers, and that's kind of my audience, my experience more has been, when I'm giving conference presentations, and I'll start out in a room of people, and I have to say, when I'm at .NET focus conference, I find that the not there yet with Docker. Part of the audience is a big one. So I kind of do a poll at the beginning of the talk. Who's heard of Docker, obviously, they're in the room, but curious because you still don't really understand it. And that's usually a bulk of the room. And what I like to ask at the end is, of all of you that, that first group, like, do you feel like you get it now, like you just get what it is and what it does, as opposed to I don't know what this thing is. It's for rocket scientists. Is that's how I felt about it. I was like, I'm just a developer. It wasn't my thing. But now, I'm still not doing DevOps, I use Docker as a really important tool, during development and test and that's actually one of it I'm going to be talking about that. But it's my session a little later. Oh, like the next hour. It's about using Docker, that my aha Docker, SQL Server, in an image and but using that in Dave Vellante, it's not about the DevOps and the CI/CD and Kubernetes, I can spell it. (he laughs) Especially when I get to say k eight s, Like I even know the cool Lingo (mumbles) on Twitter. (he laughs) >> I think that's one of the cool things about this technology stack in particular, I think to get the most out of it, you need to dig in really light if you want to, if you're looking at doing this stuff in production, if you're attracted by the fact that I can have a managed container platform in anytime. And I can deploy my app, everywhere using the same set of things that compose files or humidity files or whatever. And if you really want to take advantage of that, you kind of have to get down to the principles understand all go on a proper kind of learning journey. But if you don't want to do that, you can kind of stop wherever it makes sense for you. So like even when I'm talking to different audiences, is a lot strangely enough, I did a pool size large bin this morning. It was quite a specific topic. It was about building applications in containers. So is about using containers, to compile your app and then package it, so you can build anywhere. But even a session like that, the first maybe two minutes, I give a lightning quick overview, of what containers are and how you use them. Here's exactly like you say, people will come to a session, if it's got Docker or humanities in the title. But if they don't have the entry requirements. They've never really used this stuff. And we were up here and it's a big dump for them. So I try and always have that introductory slide. >> I had to do that on the fly. >> Sorry. >> I've done that on the fly in conference, because yes, doing like, ASP.NET Core with Entity Framework and containers. And, 80% of the room, really didn't know anything about Docker. So, instead of talking like five minutes about Docker and then demoing the rest, I ended up spending more time talking about Docker, to make sure everybody was really you could tell that difference when they're like oh, like that they understood enough, in order to be follow along and understand the value of what it was that I was there to show, about it in that core, I'm also this is making me remember that first time I actually use Docker compose, because it was a while, I was just using the SQL Server, Docker image, in on my development machine for quite a while. And because I wasn't deploying, I was learning and exploring and so I was on my development machine, so I didn't need to do anything else. So the first time I really started orchestrating, that was yet another aha moment. But I was ready for it then. I think you know if you start with Docker compose and you don't haven't done the other, maybe I would write but I was ready, because I'd already gotten used to using the tooling and, really understanding what was going on with containers. Then that Docker compose was like yeah. (he laughs) >> It's just the next one, in the line is a great comment actually in the chat about someone in the chat. >> From chat? >> Yeah, from Steve saying, that he could see there would be an aha moment for his about security. And actually that's absolutely, it's so when security people, first want to get their head around containers, they get worried that if someone can compromise the app in the container, they might get a break out, and get to all the other containers. And suddenly, instead of having one VM compromised, you have 100 containers compromised. But actually, when you dig into it so much easier to get this kind of defense in depth, when you're building in containers, because you have your tape on an image that's owned by your team who produced the path, whether or not they will have their own images, that are built with best practices. You can sign your images, through your platform doesn't run anything that isn't signed, you have a full history of exactly what's in the source code is what's in production, there's all sorts of, ways you can layer on security that, attract that side of the audience. >> I've been looking at you this whole time, and like I forgot about the live chat. There's the live chat. (he laughs) There's Scott Johnston in live chat. >> Yes. >> People talking about Kubernetes and swarm. I'm scrolling through quickly to see if anybody's saying, well, my aha moment was. >> There was a good one. What was this one from Fatima earlier on, Maya was pointing out with almost no configuration onto a VM, and couldn't believe it never looked back on us. >> Yeah. >> That's exactly, on one command, if your image is mostly built, SaaS has some sensible defaults, it just all works. And everyone's (mumbles). >> Yeah, and the thing that I'm doing in my session is, what I love. the fact that for development team, Development Testing everybody on the team, and then again on up the pipeline to CI/CD. It's just a matter of, not only do you have your SaaS code, but in your SaaS code, you've got your Docker compose, and your Docker compose just makes sure, that you have the development environment that you need, all the frame, everything that you need is just there, without having to go out and find it and install it. >> There were no gap in a development environment with CI build the production. So I'm hearing, you don't hear but I can hear that we need to wrap up. >> Oh, yeah. >> Get yourself prepared for your next session, which everyone should definitely, I'll be watching everyone else do. So thanks everyone for joining. Thanks, Julie for a great idea for a conversation, was about 4050 we'll have a beer with and I would, I would Yeah. >> Yeah, we live many thousands of miles away from one another. >> Well, hopefully next year, there will be a different topic on how we can all meet some of you guys. >> And I do need to point out, the last time we were together, Elton, I got a copy of Alan's book and he signed it. (both laughs) And we took a picture of it. >> There are still more books on the stand >> Yeah, I know that's an old book, but it's the one that you signed. Thank you so much. >> Thanks everyone for joining and we'll enjoy the rest of the topic home. >> Bye. (soft music)

>> from Bahrain. It's the Q covering AWS Public sector Bahrain brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> over and welcome back to the Cube. Special coverage here in by rain in the Middle East for Amazon Web service is eight of US Summit. I'm John for the Cube our second year, where cloud computing has changed in the landscape. It's changing the entrepreneur equation. It's changing the money equation, and Fintech is very popular. Next guest. Special guests. Ideal worrying. Who's the Deputy Group? CEO Bank, ABC. A legend in the industry. Also the founder. The Fintech Forum Coming up on your fourth big event, But you're keynoting here at Teresa Carlson and A W s Summit car on digital only bank. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you, John. Thank you. Pleasure to speak to you today, so I got a lot to talk about, but digital only bank. This is a really special time in history. Now we're living in a digital error and the digital is driving business change and digital business is on the on the plate of every major executive in the world. How are you enabling digital business, >> John? The way, The way I look at things that two years ago I have went to my board. I said, I wanna disrupt the bank. I want to develop a business digital strategy. And to do that, we have three pictures. We have to run the band first and transform the back. To do that, we have to continue investing on modernizing the bank. Then you evolve the bank investment by creating new product. And finally you just hop the back and how you disrupt the bank. And she's using the digital highway and introducing the cloud computing on bringing a new tools wishes changed the framework and changed the mechanics of the bank. So we created way are not a digital only bank which will be going live in two months time. We launch a wallet on all that sitting on our eco systems it in the cloud the very brave and bold move. But I can tell you, without that you will lose the transformation. Banking today is different than they're gonna be banking of tomorrow. Yeah, we have to start getting into the journey of transformation. >> Bold moves require bold leadership obscenity. You are that this is hard. It sounds easy on paper. You got people to convince. I agree. Changes hard people. Cultural change. How did you do it? What >> was the great question? John are started that in December 2016 I went to my board when the frantic start moving heating our partnership. Look, I want to be on the transformation. Jr and I worked for about 6 to 9 months in greeting our niche with the board unit. Explain to them frantic abroad. Them actually a special fintech speakers guidelines. So I invested heavily. I would always take holder board level people, groups Vo and tell him about the impact of digitization. New cannot afford distant idea. Feel distant. I didn't do nothing. He parked the chain was moved. We'll go without you. So what you're saying is that investment is awareness. You have to explain to him why you cannot treat fintech with the threat. You have to embrace it. >> I love that. I love that leadership. It takes time to nurture and unset the table. Absolutely. And then understand the cloud only strategy. And then you got to sell it and then you gotta implement. These are the new dynamic >> fears fears. John is that most of the stakeholder. They think of cloud as secure and the spending of times They're not security. Instead, he was spending the time questioning spend their time to improve the security with Amazon. We are partners Now we sit with them and doing a demon years. And I tell you, I'm putting all my critical banking system on the ground. >> When you talk to Amazon, you're a bank. Thanks. Have money. Thanks can be act. There were people who worried about all this. Trust is important opportunity. What made you decide to go a W s? >> There's a very first of all. When I decided to individuals with my decision, I looked at you guys, the investment you made it in security, the investment you make or not. Indeed, I looked you committed to the region. I was someone my neighbor you guys have invested that made a bold move to be in Bahrain That did a lot, picked a lot of boxes for me and that was an important move from AWS. And I tell you many regulators today they were going to cloud eventually. So it's very important that anybody is Bridget himself in the >> region. But we love a W s because we covered them. And in depth is part of our media business. And we look at disruptions to and I want to get your thoughts on fintech disruption. We were talking before we came on camera about some key times in history where disruption happened in trade. That is a tale sign for what's happening in that. Tell the story. >> All right, let me tell you the story. In 1953 the first word cargo ship sent from New York to Houston. That chip change the word made history. Why? Because it has the container. So you could supplier trade, sending through the container to different destinations. You know, before how you used to be put them in the trade through It was a nightmare. That disruption have actually improved the globalization of increased trade business. Today all this equipment here comes Chicago comes through container and each container is labelled through computer. So we re vision today Fintech made the same making same disruption in banking on my notions, everything >> and wears a similarity. Scale >> matter, united disruption. This came a volume betrayed should become disrupted. Everybody start using your container. The business the globalization fintech, globalization, skin awareness. So what? The way I see similar to that we had a disruption. Trade become more familiar. Lifestyle has improved. You can now put your house. Your TV is coming From where? From? Your Maybe >> all the cargo containers have changed. Shipping fintech is changing banking, banking >> and lifestyle. You got it. You got a job. >> And so now, well, ironically, two containers or changing the cloud Because containers and kubernetes and frustration, This is about software. That's right. Software money has been a term kicked around. When you hear the word software defined currency software to find money, what do you think of? >> Look, at the end of the day, who writes software people? Human. So basically, the thinking has become from you and I for the people that sit and think about the codes. Yeah, programmer the corner. But there's somebody behind it thinking So you have a thinker on this thing? Got Arjun you the word not the coda. >> Big moves and Finn ticker happening. I want to get your thoughts on leadership in this world where cloud has pretty much instant benefits if you execute properly. Absolutely. There's also architectural thinking. So the word business architecture is not something that they teach in business school or sometimes has to be learned over time to operate a business and go have a growth strategy in changing technological landscapes requires a business. Architecture has to have a ballistic systems thinking this is hard. You've done that for multiple years. What if you learned what were some of the challenges that you came? >> You have to look at when you're running a big enterprise. You have a lot of investment around the world, and a lot of duplication are out of inefficiency at the leader. Money to show my steak stakeholder efficiency. I want our own better shop. Now, if technology can help me to do that, why not? You'll have to jump onto the wagon? Yeah, yeah, I cannot sit idle, and I see a better efficient shop but bank running more efficiently. So I looked with technology addition to disrupt the way I work, but positive disruption. Yeah. The main thing is that the disruption should be a catalyst for a positive change. So what I learned I learned efficiency would the digital disruption with the cloud today and instead of putting 25,000 servants to serve my 18 countries. I put in the cloud. You done it. You know the economy is Ken Jordan and the shaving >> the flywheels. Amazing. The operational efficiency are amazing. As an executive, you managed to results at the end of the day. Business is business. Results matter. How are your results? You gotta make money >> at the bank. It I have a good show. Uh, results. >> Got to make some money. How do you see that? Evolving digital only business. What's your strategy? What's your roadmap? For? How you see the money making kicking >> in, John, that our clients becoming sophisticated. My corporate client today if I don't deliver in a digital solution through his statement, give the payment, Foster. He's gonna go for a fintech company because today, front companies are competing with me eating my lunch. So I have to prove, if my client becoming digital Chevy more sophisticated, I cannot sit and watch. So I have to invest heavily. You make sure my client is satisfied giving the right cash management to transaction banking. All this the book payments or this have to be alternated. So I have to be continue looking after my client. That's where the money >> are you happy where you are, Where you're at right now? Are you happy with work? >> There's always room for improvement. I will continue. Invest on Are we innovate because you cannot stop. I mean, look, I'm a zone today. Would they stop? >> No, no, they're not stopping >> way. We need to continue. >> What's your areas that you think about for the next five years? Fintech. What are an important area? >> You know what? I think Joe's gonna affect our lifestyle. A I artificial intel. I feel way only seen the beginning. We have seen nothing out of the way. A bank, ABC. We just lost our first digital employees. Uh, her name is Fatima, and we will be coming live in November. I tell you, this is the beginning. I feel artificial intelligence is gonna affect our work force in the world. >> Tell me more about this digital employees concept. >> Well, that until passionate about what we worked with a company called So machine in you Zeeland on there are the same people who actually invented you've seen the movie of it all. Yeah. So the same people actually design movie and avatar work. We work with them to create a footman. Fatma is already being trained. Do help a new Crying Toe Bank, ABC. The Tissue Bank Open account. Two shoes. A correct credit cards for you Help you and also to be able to have a chat with her to be able to ask you a question. Jerry. A question about the Bahrain about the population but banking. It's a journey on. The journey's so far being successful, and I continue. If you ask me the question in a year's time, I would tell you probably thought it would be somebody else. >> This is helping augment the experience for your customers. That's the goal, >> absolutely. And from experience with my consumer. >> Okay, I want to change the subject and talk about the fact you're the founder of the Fintech Forum. You've had your third edition for the coming up. Talk about the event. What's the purpose? >> Uh, in in about 2016 December, I went to them sentimental by rain Governor and I said, We want to sponsor a frantic conference so self like impressed that immediately and British idea. And then I went back to my board my good CEO, I said, We want to sponsor the fish interconference on my papers at the time, the warning Because at that time in nearly 2017 we hear different around the region. Nobody actually sat there and say, Was the interactive printed on banking? You see, other victim. So I launched the first winter conference Was its success 2nd 1 also a sex. And the 3rd 1 was a kook because we put the top speaker on the world. And now people are judging me for the 4th 1 event business Now. No way about Responsive Bank. NBC's was the sole sponsor. >> That's exciting. And I think these events are changing, too. The fact that you're getting into events, you're contributing your knowledge, your also sponsoring providing some working capital >> contribution as a bank. International bank. At least I can do to support my reign infrastructure in the vision in a fintech. Sorry, >> no problem. Think out of the water. I want to say I want to get your thoughts on something. I feels important. I said this last year and the year before, when Amazon launches a new region, yeah, it creates a revitalisation. It has computing power has all those things. It's a center point of innovation. How do you see that same thing? And what's, um, things that people might not know about the Amazon relationship to the area? Because all this innovation and enablement fintech societal change the government ministries are coming online here by rain. Entrepreneurs are creating value. They're getting funded this liquidity banks, air going fintech A modernization wave is happening with a new generation of young people and existing businesses. This is a digital complete modernisation. Your thoughts on on all this digital transformation Societal at a societal level with Amazon >> Amazon already contributed to the digital economy was in it in the world. And I've seen already the impact this part of the world. The fact that this conference is summer today I can't answer your question. Look at the contribution. You have about 2000 people here look the excitement of what to bring into the region. I have seen people today from Chaudhary from Kuwait, from Morocco, from Amman, from Egypt here. So you are actually building the knowledge excitement and you also have been people to understand the ecosystem and what was missing. So what you doing any bill Us now actually investing heavily on educating awareness of the digital destruction and digital economy. You are participating in the digital economy. I mean, also today I heard from Malaysia. Very good. Exactly. Sponsoring a program a degree with University of Bahrain doesn't pass just free. So this is basically you Continue doing that. And you find AWS is already effective. Life like the clock is gonna be so I think it's body is already contributing the digital economy worldwide. >> You know, I'm fascinated. I'd love to have more conversations with you on this, Maybe at your forum. But one thing I want to get your thoughts on is with digital collaboration is not just face to face. You meet people here from different countries, but then we go back to our place is but we're still together digitally. So the scale of cloud computing and digital is impacting not just money collaboration. What's your vision on how collaboration and the role of people are going to play in this new dynamic? John, >> if you have asked me three years ago our video I was a threat with winter company with your banker. They're gonna eat my lunch. But today you realize with time the only way you can move on trust through collaborating with the company. That's why today I'm sitting with AWS sitting with other victim basically breaking people. I know my banks, but I don't know how to build a clock ticking. So I caught a break. I don't know how to move on a new Sophia or so I go with. I want to use it to get that. You see what I mean? >> Yeah, I think you have another good point that we reported on many times. And that is that when you collaborate with these technologies, it makes the domain expertise and the data that you >> have >> more intellectual, more emotional property because, you know, banking intimately. You have data, you have customers. That's your intellectual property. You could use that faster with the resource. This is a new competitive advantage >> with analytics would get the science. The data is the new order, if you should, but you need the tours. You need another unique data scientist. And when you have the distant scientist dental become than yours. >> So he'll thank you for sharing your awesome insights here and let you hear about rain. Really appreciated. Congratulations. Tino speaking. Bank, ABC. Thank you. Going all digital. Bold moves. Bold leadership. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're here in the Cube. We're live broadcasting here and by rain. 80. This summit. I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching.