>>Set restaurants. And who says TEUs had got a little ass more skin in the game for us, in charge of his destiny? You guys are excited. Robert Worship is Chief Alumni. >>My name is Dave Ante, and I'm a long time industry analyst. So when you're as old as I am, you've seen a lot of transitions. Everybody talks about industry cycles and waves. I've seen many, many waves. Met a lot of industry executives and of a little bit of a, an industry historian. When you interview many thousands of people, probably five or 6,000 people as I have over the last half of a decade, you get to interact with a lot of people's knowledge and you begin to develop patterns. And so that's sort of what I bring is, is an ability to catalyze the conversation and, you know, share that knowledge with others in the community. Our philosophy is everybody's expert at something. Everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that's something well, we wanna focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share it with our communities. This is Dave Ante. Thanks for watching the Cube. >>Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cube where we are streaming live this week from CubeCon. I am Savannah Peterson and I am joined by an absolutely stellar lineup of cube brilliance this afternoon. To my left, a familiar face, Lisa Martin. Lisa, how you feeling? End of day two. >>Excellent. It was so much fun today. The buzz started yesterday, the momentum, the swell, and we only heard even more greatness today. >>Yeah, yeah, abs, absolutely. You know, I, I sometimes think we've hit an energy cliff, but it feels like the energy is just >>Continuous. Well, I think we're gonna, we're gonna slide right into tomorrow. >>Yeah, me too. I love it. And we've got two fantastic analysts with us today, Sarge and Keith. Thank you both for joining us. We feel so lucky today. >>Great being back on. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, Yeah. It's nice to have you back on the show. We were, had you yesterday, but I miss hosting with you. It's been a while. >>It has been a while. We haven't done anything in since, Since pre >>Pandemic, right? Yeah, I think you're >>Right. Four times there >>Be four times back in the day. >>We, I always enjoy whole thing, Lisa, cuz she's so well prepared. I don't have to do any research when I come >>Home. >>Lisa will bring up some, Oh, sorry. Jeep, I see that in 2008 you won this award for Yeah. Being just excellent and I, I'm like, Oh >>Yeah. All right Keith. So, >>So did you do his analysis? >>Yeah, it's all done. Yeah. Great. He only part, he's not sitting next to me too. We can't see it, so it's gonna be like a magic crystal bell. Right. So a lot of people here. You got some stats in terms of the attendees compared >>To last year? Yeah, Priyanka told us we were double last year up to 8,000. We also got the scoop earlier that 2023 is gonna be in Chicago, which is very exciting. >>Oh, that is, is nice. Yeah, >>We got to break that here. >>Excellent. Keith, talk to us about what some of the things are that you've seen the last couple of days. The momentum. What's the vibe? I saw your tweet about the top three things you were being asked. Kubernetes was not one of them. >>Kubernetes were, was not one of 'em. This conference is starting to, it, it still feels very different than a vendor conference. The keynote is kind of, you know, kind of all over the place talking about projects, but the hallway track has been, you know, I've, this is maybe my fifth or sixth CU con in person. And the hallway track is different. It's less about projects and more about how, how do we adjust to the enterprise? How do we Yes. Actually do enterprise things. And it has been amazing watching this community grow. I'm gonna say grow up and mature. Yes. You know, you know, they're not wearing ties yet, but they are definitely understanding kind of the, the friction of implementing new technology in, in an enterprise. >>Yeah. So ge what's your, what's been your take, We were with you yesterday. What's been the take today to take aways? >>NOMA has changed since yesterday, but a few things I think I, I missed talking about that yesterday were that, first of all, let's just talk about Amazon. Amazon earnings came out, it spooked the market and I think it's relevant in this context as well, because they're number one cloud provider. Yeah. And all, I mean, almost all of these technologies on the back of us here, they are related to cloud, right? So it will have some impact on these. Like we have to analyze that. Like will it make the open source go faster or slower in, in lieu of the fact that the, the cloud growth is slowing. Right? So that's, that's one thing that's put that's put that aside. I've been thinking about the, the future of Kubernetes. What is the future of Kubernetes? And in that context, I was thinking like, you know, I think in, when I put a pointer there, I think in tangents, like, what else is around this thing? So I think CN CNCF has been writing the success of Kubernetes. They are, that was their number one flagship project, if you will. And it was mature enough to stand on its own. It it was Google, it's Google's Borg dub da Kubernetes. It's a genericized version of that. Right? So folks who do tech deep down, they know that, Right. So I think it's easier to stand with a solid, you know, project. But when the newer projects come in, then your medal will get tested at cncf. Right. >>And cncf, I mean they've got over 140 projects Yeah. Right now. So there's definitely much beyond >>Kubernetes. Yeah. So they, I have numbers there. 18 graduated, right, 37 in incubation and then 81 in Sandbox stage. They have three stages, right. So it's, they have a lot to chew on and the more they take on, the less, you know, quality you get goes into it. Who is, who's putting the money behind it? Which vendors are sponsoring like cncf, like how they're getting funded up. I think it >>Something I pay attention to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa, I know you've got >>Some insight. Those are the things I was thinking about today. >>I gotta ask you, what's your take on what Keith said? Are you also seeing the maturation of the enterprise here at at coupon? >>Yes, I am actually, when you say enterprise versus what's the other side? Startups, right? Yeah. So startups start using open source a lot more earlier or lot more than enterprises. The enterprise is what they need. Number one thing is the, for their production workloads, they want a vendor sporting them. I said that yesterday as well, right? So it depend depending on the size of the enterprise. If you're a big shop, definitely if you have one of the 500 or Fortune five hundreds and your tech savvy shop, then you can absorb the open source directly coming from the open source sort of universe right. Coming to you. But if you are the second tier of enterprise, you want to go to a provider which is managed service provider, or it can be cloud service provider in this case. Yep. Most of the cloud service providers have multiple versions of Kubernetes, for example. >>I'm not talking about Kubernetes only, but like, but that is one example, right? So at Amazon you can get five different flavors of Kubernetes, right? Fully manage, have, manage all kind of stuff. So people don't have bandwidth to manage that stuff locally. You have to patch it, you have to roll in the new, you know, updates and all that stuff. Like, it's a lot of work for many. So CNCF actually is formed for that reason. Like the, the charter is to bring the quality to open source. Like in other companies they have the release process and they, the stringent guidelines and QA and all that stuff. So is is something ready for production? That's the question when it comes to any software, right? So they do that kind of work and, and, and they have these buckets defined at high level, but it needs more >>Work. Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, kind of stood out to me, I have good friend in the community, Alex Ellis, who does open Fast. It's a serverless platform, great platform. Two years ago or in 2019, there was a serverless day date. And in serverless day you had K Native, you had Open Pass, you had Ws, which is supported by IBM completely, not CNCF platforms. K native came into the CNCF full when Google donated the project a few months ago or a couple of years ago, now all of a sudden there's a K native day. Yes. Not a serverless day, it's a K native day. And I asked the, the CNCF event folks like, what happened to Serverless Day? I missed having open at serverless day. And you know, they, they came out and said, you know what, K native got big enough. >>They came in and I think Red Hat and Google wanted to sponsor a K native day. So serverless day went away. So I think what what I'm interested in and over the next couple of years is, is they're gonna be pushback from the C against the cncf. Is the CNCF now too big? Is it now the gatekeeper for do I have to be one of those 147 projects, right? In order enough to get my project noticed the open, fast, great project. I don't think Al Alex has any desire to have his project hosted by cncf, but it probably deserves, you know, shoulder left recognition with that. So I'm pushing to happen to say, okay, if this is open community, this is open source. If CNC is the place to have the cloud native conversation, what about the projects that's not cncf? Like how do we have that conversation when we don't have the power of a Google right. Or a, or a Lenox, et cetera, or a Lenox Foundation. So GE what, >>What are your thoughts on that? Is, is CNC too big? >>I don't think it's too big. I think it's too small to handle the, what we are doing in open source, right? So it's a bottle. It can become a bottleneck. Okay. I think too big in a way that yeah, it has, it has, it has power from that point of view. It has that cloud, if you will. The people listen to it. If it's CNCF project or this must be good, it's like in, in incubators. Like if you are y white Combinator, you know, company, it must be good. You know, I mean, may not be >>True, but, >>Oh, I think there's a bold assumption there though. I mean, I think everyone's just trying to do the best they can. And when we're evaluating projects, a very different origin and background, it's incredibly hard. Very c and staff is a staff of 30 people. They've got 180,000 people that are contributing to these projects and a thousand maintainers that they're trying to uphold. I think the challenge is actually really great. And to me, I actually look at events as an illustration of, you know, what's the culture and the health of an organization. If I were to evaluate CNCF based on that, I'd say we're very healthy right now. I would say that we're in a good spot. There's a lot of momentum. >>Yeah. I, I think CNCF is very healthy. I'm, I'm appreciative for it being here. I love coupon. It's becoming the, the facto conference to have this conversation has >>A totally >>Different vibe to other, It's a totally different vibe. Yeah. There needs to be a conduit and truth be told, enterprise buyers, to subject's point, this is something that we do absolutely agree on, on enterprise buyers. We want someone to pick winners and losers. We do, we, we don't want a box of Lego dumped on our, the middle of our table. We want somebody to have sorted that out. So while there may be five or six different service mesh solutions, at least the cncf, I can go there and say, Oh, I'll pick between the three or four that are most popular. And it, it's a place to curate. But I think with that curation comes the other side of it. Of how do we, how, you know, without the big corporate sponsor, how do I get my project pushed up? Right? Elevated. Elevated, Yep. And, and put onto the show floor. You know, another way that projects get noticed is that startups will adopt them, Push them. They may not even be, I don't, my CNCF project may not, my product may not even be based on the CNCF product. But the new stack has a booth, Ford has a booth. Nothing to do with a individual prod up, but promoting open source. What happens when you're not sponsored? >>I gotta ask you guys, what do you disagree on? >>Oh, so what, what do we disagree on? So I'm of the mindset, I can, I can say this, I I believe hybrid infrastructure is the future of it. Bar none. If I built my infrastructure, if I built my application in the cloud 10 years ago and I'm still building net new applications, I have stuff that I built 10 years ago that looks a lot like on-prem, what do I do with it? I can't modernize it cuz I don't have the developers to do it. I need to stick that somewhere. And where I'm going to stick that at is probably a hybrid infrastructure. So colo, I'm not gonna go back to the data center, but I'm, I'm gonna look, pick up something that looks very much like the data center and I'm saying embrace that it's the future. And if you're Boeing and you have, and Boeing is a member, cncf, that's a whole nother topic. If you have as 400 s, hpu X, et cetera, stick that stuff. Colo, build new stuff, but, and, and continue to support OpenStack, et cetera, et cetera. Because that's the future. Hybrid is the future. >>And sub g agree, disagree. >>I okay. Hybrid. Nobody can deny that the hybrid is the reality, not the future. It's a reality right now. It's, it's a necessity right now you can't do without it. Right. And okay, hybrid is very relative term. You can be like 10% here, 90% still hybrid, right? So the data center is shrinking and it will keep shrinking. Right? And >>So if by whole is the data center shrinking? >>This is where >>Quick one quick getting guys for it. How is growing by a clip? Yeah, but there's no data supporting. David Lym just came out for a report I think last year that showed that the data center is holding steady, holding steady, not growing, but not shrinking. >>Who sponsored that study? Wait, hold on. So the, that's a question, right? So more than 1 million data centers have been closed. I have, I can dig that through number through somebody like some organizations we published that maybe they're cloud, you know, people only. So the, when you get these kind of statements like it, it can be very skewed statements, right. But if you have seen the, the scene out there, which you have, I know, but I have also seen a lot of data centers walk the floor of, you know, a hundred thousand servers in a data center. I cannot imagine us consuming the infrastructure the way we were going into the future of co Okay. With, with one caveat actually. I am not big fan of like broad strokes. Like make a blanket statement. Oh no, data center's dead. Or if you are, >>That's how you get those esty headlines now. Yeah, I know. >>I'm all about to >>Put a stake in the ground. >>Actually. The, I think that you get more intelligence from the new end, right? A small little details if you will. If you're golden gold manak or Bank of America, you have so many data centers and you will still have data centers because performance matters to you, right? Your late latency matters for applications. But if you are even a Fortune 500 company on the lower end and or a healthcare vertical, right? That your situation is different. If you are a high, you know, growth startup, your situation is different, right? You will be a hundred percent cloud. So cloud gives you velocity, the, the, the pace of change, the pace of experimentation that actually you are buying innovation through cloud. It's proxy for innovation. And that's how I see it. But if you have, if you're stuck with older applications, I totally understand. >>Yeah. So the >>We need that OnPrem. Yeah, >>Well I think the, the bring your fuel sober, what we agree is that cloud is the place where innovation happens. Okay? At some point innovation becomes legacy debt and you have thus hybrid, you are not going to keep your old applications up to date forever. The, the, the math just doesn't add up. And where I differ in opinion is that not everyone needs innovation to keep moving. They need innovation for a period of time and then they need steady state. So Sergeant, we >>Argue about this. I have a, I >>Love this debate though. I say it's efficiency and stability also plays an important role. I see exactly what you're talking about. No, it's >>Great. I have a counter to that. Let me tell you >>Why. Let's >>Hear it. Because if you look at the storage only, right? Just storage. Just take storage computer network for, for a minute. There three cost reps in, in infrastructure, right? So storage earlier, early on there was one tier of storage. You say pay the same price, then now there are like five storage tiers, right? What I'm trying to say is the market sets the price, the market will tell you where this whole thing will go, but I know their margins are high in cloud, 20 plus percent and margin will shrink as, as we go forward. That means the, the cloud will become cheaper relative to on-prem. It, it, in some cases it's already cheaper. But even if it's a stable workload, even in that case, we will have a lower tier of service. I mean, you, you can't argue with me that the cloud versus your data center, they are on the same tier of services. Like cloud is a better, you know, product than your data center. Hands off. >>I love it. We, we are gonna relish in the debates between the two of you. Mic drops. The energy is great. I love it. Perspective. It's not like any of us can quite see through the crystal ball that we have very informed opinions, which is super exciting. Yeah. Lisa, any last thoughts today? >>Just love, I love the debate as well. That, and that's, that's part of what being in this community is all about. So sharing about, sharing opinions, expressing opinions. That's how it grows. That's how, that's how we innovate. Yeah. Obviously we need the cloud, but that's how we innovate. That's how we grow. Yeah. And we've seen that demonstrated the last couple days and I and your, your takes here on the Cuban on Twitter. Brilliant. >>Thank you. I absolutely love it. I'm gonna close this out with a really important analysis on the swag of the show. Yes. And if you know, yesterday we were looking at what is the weirdest swag or most unique swag We had that bucket hat that took the grand prize. Today we're gonna focus on something that's actually quite cool. A lot of the vendors here have really dedicated their swag to being local to Detroit. Very specific in their sourcing. Sonotype here has COOs. They're beautiful. You can't quite feel this flannel, but it's very legit hand sound here in Michigan. I can't say that I've been to too many conferences, if any, where there was this kind of commitment to localizing and sourcing swag from around the corner. We also see this with the Intel booth. They've got screen printers out here doing custom hoodies on spot. >>Oh fun. They're even like appropriately sized. They had local artists do these designs and if you're like me and you care about what's on your wrist, you're familiar with Shinola. This is one of my favorite swags that's available. There is a contest. Oh going on. Hello here. Yeah, so if you are Atan, make sure that you go and check this out. The we, I talked about this on the show. We've had the founder on the show or the CEO and yeah, I mean Shine is just full of class as since we are in Detroit as well. One of the fun themes is cars. >>Yes. >>And Storm Forge, who are also on the show, is actually giving away an Aston Martin, which is very exciting. Not exactly manufactured in Detroit. However, still very cool on the car front and >>The double oh seven version named the best I >>Know in the sixties. It's love it. It's very cool. Two quick last things. We talk about it a lot on the show. Every company now wants to be a software company. Yep. On that vein, and keeping up with my hat theme, the Home Depot is here because they want everybody to know that they in fact are a technology company, which is very cool. They have over 500,000 employees. You can imagine there's a lot of technology that has to go into keeping Napa. Absolutely. Yep. Wild to think about. And then last, but not at least very quick, rapid fire, best t-shirt contest. If you've ever ran to one of these events, there are a ton of T-shirts out there. I rate them on two things. Wittiest line and softness. If you combine the two, you'll really be our grand champion for the year. I'm just gonna hold these up and set them down for your laughs. Not afraid to commit, which is pretty great. This is another one designed by locals here. Detroit Code City. Oh, love it. This one made me chuckle the most. Kiss my cash. >>Oh, that's >>Good. These are also really nice and soft, which is fantastic. Also high on the softness category is this Op Sarah one. I also like their bird logo. These guys, there's just, you know, just real nice touch. So unfortunately, if you have the fumble, you're not here with us, live in Detroit. At least you're gonna get taste of the swag. I taste of the stories and some smiles hear from those of us on the cube. Thank you both so much for being here with us. Lisa, thanks for another fabulous day. Got it, girl. My name's Savannah Peterson. Thank you for joining us from Detroit. We're the cube and we can't wait to see you tomorrow.

>>Welcome to the AWS Startup. Showcase new breakthroughs in devops, did analytics and cloud management tools. I'm lisa martin, I've got Jordan share here with the next vice president of corporate marketing Ops ramp, Jordan welcome to the program >>lisa It's great to be here. Great to talk about some of the stuff. Thanks for having me. >>Yeah let's break this down. Tell me, first of all about Ops ramp, how is it facilitating the transformation of I. T. Ops helping companies as your website says control the chaos. >>Sure. So option is an availability platform for the modern enterprise. We consolidate digital I. T. Operations management into one place. So availability as you can imagine um is a consistent challenge for I. T. Operations teams in large enterprises maintaining service assurance, making sure that services are up available, performing uh Ops tramp is the platform that powers all of that and we bring a lot of different features and functions to bear in driving availability. I think about ai ops I think about hybrid infrastructure monitoring, multi cloud monitoring, that's all part of the options offering. Modern enterprise. >>Talk to me about back in 2014 what the founders saw of Ops ramps, what were some of the gaps in the market that they saw that this needs to be addressed and no one's >>doing? It's a great question. So abstract was originally founded as part of an MSP offering. So we were a platform serving managed service providers who wanted to consolidate the infrastructure of their clients onto one multi tenant platform. What they noticed was that these enterprise customers of the MSP s whom we served. Really appreciated that promise of being able to consolidate infrastructure, being able to visualize different alerts, different critical incidents that might arise all on one platform. And so that's when we decided to raise around and take it directly to the enterprise so they could have the same kind of visibility and control that MSP s were delivering back to them, >>Visibility and control is essential, especially if your objective is to help control the chaos. Talk to me about some of the trends that you've seen, especially in the last 18 months, as we've been in such a dynamic market, we've seen the rapid acceleration of digital business transformation. What are some of those key trends especially with respect to a I ops that you think are really poignant. >>Yeah. You know, we like to think over here that the pandemic didn't really change a whole lot, accelerated a whole lot. And so we started to see at least within the past 12 to 18 months this acceleration of moving to the cloud, you know, Gardner forecasted that I thi enterprises, large enterprises are going to be spending upwards of 300 billion um in the move to the public cloud. So that has really facilitated some of the decisions that we have made and the promises that we offer to our customers, number one, Number two, with the move to remote work and the adoption of a lot of different digital tools and uh the creation and implementation of a lot of different digital customer services. Um It has forced these enterprises whom we serve to really rethink how they provide flexibility and control to their larger enterprise. I. T. Teams that might be distributed might be working remote might be in different locations. How can they consolidate infrastructure as it gets more and more complex. So that's where ops tramp has really created the most value. So we think about two things. Number one I want to consolidate my multi cloud environments so services via AWS for example or other cloud providers. How do I bring that within? How do I bring that control within my enterprise within the context of maybe additional private cloud offerings or public cloud infrastructure. Number one. Number two how do I get control over the constant flood of alerts but I'm getting from these different digital services and tools all in one place. Um you know so we are responding to that need by for example uh implementing a really rich robust ai ops functionality within the train platform to both be able to consolidate those alerts that are coming through and really escalate the critical ones um for to allow I. T. Operations seems to be a little bit more proactive and understand how incidents are happening and giving them the ability to remediate those incidents become before they become business critical and can really shut down the internet. >>Speaking of the enterprise. I'm curious if your customer conversations have changed in level in the last 18 months as everything has become chaotic for quite a while. We're still in we've been in a hybrid cloud world for a while. We are in a hybrid workforce situation. Have you noticed an escalation up the stack in terms of the c suite of going we need to make sure that we're leveraging cloud properly financially responsibly and ensuring that we have this ability and all the services that we're delivering. >>You mean are they sweating more And are they coming to us when they're sweating more? Yeah. Yeah for sure. The short answer is yes. So let me give you a great example. Um One of our recent customers they manufacture chips microchips and what they've noticed is that number one demand has grown um due to the increase in digital transformation. Um Number two supply chains have become more constricted for them specifically so they're asking themselves. All right how can we equip our I. T. Operations teams to maintain the availability of different logistics services within our organization So that they can both maintain service availability of these different logistic logistic services um and be able to stay on deadline as much as they possibly can um during a supply chain crisis that we're facing right now. And number two how can we as we move to the cloud and we see a distribution of our workforce still be able to maintain I. T. Operation services regardless. Um That is a need in particular in particular the supply chain um constraint issue. Uh That is a need that has arisen only in the last 18 months and it is a perfect use case for ops ramp or a platform that allows you to consolidate I. T. Operations to one place and give flexibility control across a distributed environment with a number of different new digital services that have been implemented. To solve some of these challenges. >>Talk to me about Ai ops as a facilitator of that availability visibility in this hybrid world that is still somewhat chaotic. >>Yeah great question. So originally it was al gore algorithmic operations is coined by Gardner today it's artificial intelligence in its operations. So the notion there is simple right there's a lot of data coming in on throughout the I. T. Operations organization. How can we look for patterns within that data to help us understand and act more proactively. Um From an operational perspective well there are a lot of promises uh that go along with A. I. Ops that it's going to completely transform these I. T. Organizations that it's going to reduce headcount. Um We don't necessarily find that to be true. What we do find true though is that the original promise behind a IOP still exists right we need to look for patterns in the data and we need to be able to drive insights from those patterns so that is what the Ai ops feature functionality within abstract really does. It looks for patterns within alerts and helps you understand what these patterns ultimately mean. Let me give you a great example so we have different algorithms within the train platform for co occurring events or for downstream events that help us indicate, okay if a number of these events are happening across one geography or one um business service for example we can actually look for those co occurring patterns and we can see that there may be one resource or set of resources that is actually causing a bunch of these incidents for a bunch of these alerts upstream of all the actual alerts themselves. So instead of the ICTy Operations organization having to go in and remediate a bunch of different distributed alerts, they can actually look at that upstream alert and say okay that's the one that really matters, that's where I need to pay most of my attention to. Um and that's where I'm going to deploy a team or open up a ticket or escalate to I. T. S. M. Or a variety of different things because I know that these co occurring alerts are creating a pattern that's driving some insight. Um so that's just part of the overall Ops tramp Ai Ops um promise or uh you know there's there's tons more that goes along with the biopsy but we really want to take some of the load and reduce some of the alerts that these icy operations teams are having to deal with on a daily basis. >>So let's talk about how you do that from a practical perspective, is looking at some of the notes that your team provided and according to I. D. C. This was a report from asia pacific excluding Japan that 75% of global two K enterprises are going to adopt a I Ai Ops by 2023 but a lot of Ai ops projects have been built on and haven't been successful. How does abstract help change flip the script on that? >>So it really comes down to the quality of the data right? If you have a bolt on tool, you have to optimize that tool for the different data lakes or data warehouses or sources of data that exists within your operational organization. I think about multi cloud apps across the multiplied environment. So I have to optimize the data that is coming in from each of those different cloud providers onto a bolt on tool to make sure that the data that's being fed to the tool is accurate and it is a true reflection of what's going on in the operational organization. That's number one. If you look at ops tramp and the differentiation there. Um op tramp is a big data platform at its core. So you bring ops tramp in, you optimize it for your overall infrastructure mix and then the data that gets fed into the ai ops feature functionality is the same across the board. There is no further optimization. So what that means is that the insights that are being driven by the outside perhaps platform are more sophisticated, they're more nuanced, there are more accurate representation and they're probably driving ultimately better insights than sticking a tool on top of five different existing data warehouses or data lakes. >>So if you've got a customer and I'm sure that you do enterprises, as we said, going to be adopting this substantially by 2023 which is just around the corner, how do you help them sort through the infrastructure and the ecosystem that they have so that they're not bolting things on but rather they can actually really build this very intuitively to deliver that availability and the visibility that they need fast. >>Yeah, so a couple of different comments on that ways that we try to help. Number one, I think it's critical for us to understand the challenges of the modern I. T. Infrastructure environment, across different verticals, different industries. So when we walk into any of our clients, we already have a good mix of their challenges. Is it Iot? Are they dealing with a bunch of different devices at the edge, are they, you know, a telecom with uh critical incidents is incidents in the network that they need to remediate. Um Number two, we try to smooth the glide path into understanding the obscene ramp platform and promise early. So what does that mean? It means we offer a free trial of the platform itself at tried out abstract dot com, you can set up up to 1000 resources for free with an unlimited number of users for 14 days and kick the tires particularly in multi cloud monitoring and see what sorts of insights you can determine um, just within those two weeks and in fact we're, we put our cards on the table and we say you can probably see your first insights into your infrastructure within 20 minutes of setting up the abstract free trial um, and if you don't want to bring your resources, your own resources to it will even provide a collection of resources preloaded onto the platform so you can try it out yourself without having to get, you know, a bunch of approvals to load infrastructure in there. So two pieces, number one, it's this proof of concept proof of value where we try to understand the clients pain and number two, if you want to kick the tires on it yourself, we can offer that with this free trial offering. >>So what I'm hearing and that is fast time to value which in these days is absolutely essential. How does that differentiate ops ramp as a technology company and >>from your customer's perspective? Yeah, so I appreciate that. And the meantime to incite is one of the critical aspects of our product roadmap, we really want to drive down that time to value coefficient because it's what these operations teams need as complexity grows really if you take a step back right, everything is getting more complex. So it's not only the pandemic and the rise of multi cloud but it's more digital customer experience is to compete. It's the availability, it's the need of a modern enterprise to be agile. All of those things translate basically into speed and flexibility and agility. So if there's one guiding light of ops tram it's really to equip the operations team with the tools that they need to move flexibly with the business. There is a department in any modern enterprise today if they need access to the public cloud and they have a credit card they're getting on AWS right now and they are spinning up a host of services. We want to be the platform that still gives the central IT operations team some aspect of control over that with the ability with without taking away the ability of that you know siloed operations team somewhere in some geo geographic region. We want to empower them to be able to spend up that AWS service but at the same time we want to just know that exists and be able to control it. >>How can A I A facilitator of better alignment between I. T. Tops and the business as you just gave a great example of the business getting the credit card spending up services that they need for their line of business or their function and then from a cultural perspective I'm just curious how can A. I. R. S. B. A facilitator of those two groups working better together in a constantly complex environment. >>That's a great question. So imagine if I. T. Operations did more than just keep the lights on. Imagine if you knew that your I. T. Operations team could be more proactive and more productive about alerts incidents and insights from infrastructure monitoring. What that means is that you are free to create any kind of digital customer experience that you would want to drive value back to your end user. It means that no longer do you think about it? Operations is this big hodgepodge of technology that you have to spend you know hundreds of millions of dollars a year in network operations teams and centers and technologies just to keep control of right by consolidating everything down to one place one sas based platform like this it frees up the business to be able to innovate. Um You know take advantage of new technologies that come around and really to work flexibly with the needs of the business as it grows. That's the promise of a tramp. We're here to replace you know these old appliances or different management packs of tools that exists that you consistently have to add an optimized and tune to feel to to empower the operations team to act like that. Um The truth is that is that everything is SAT space now, everything is status based and when you get to the core of infrastructure, it needs to be managed to be a SAs and thats ops ramp in a nutshell, >>I like that nutshell, that's excellent. I want to know a little bit about your go to market with a W. S. Talk to me a little bit about the partnership there and where can what's your go to market like? Essentially, >>yeah, so were included in the AWS marketplace, we have an integration with a W. S um as the de facto biggest cloud provider in the world. We have to play nice with them. Um and obviously the insights that we drive on the option platform have to be insights that you need from your AWS experience. You know, it has to be similar to cloudwatch or in a lot of, in a lot of cases um it has to be as rich as the cloudwatch experience in order for you to want to use op tramp within the context of the different other multi cloud providers, so that's how abstract works. Um you know, we understand that there's a lot of AWS certified professionals who work with who work at Ops tramp, who understand what AWS is doing and who consistently introduce new features that play well with the service is the service library that AWS currently offers today. >>Got it as we look ahead to 2022 hopefully a better year than 2020 and 2021. What are some of the things that you're excited about? What are some of the things on the ops ramp road map that you can share with us? >>Yeah, so you know, the other, the other big aspect of uh the new landscape of IT operations is observe ability. We're really excited about observe ability, we think that it is the new landscape of monitoring um you know, the idea of being able to find unknown unknowns that exists within your operational stack is important to us to be able to consolidate that with the power of ai ops so that you now have machine learning on top of your ability to find unknown unknown issues. That's that's going to be super exciting for us. I know the product team is taking a hard look at how to drive hybrid, observe ability within the abstract platform. So how do we give a better operational perspective to on prem public cloud and private cloud infrastructure moving forward and how do we ingest alerts before they're even alerts? I mean that's observe ability in a nutshell, if I'm getting in and I'm checking the option platform every day, then that's a workflow that we can remove by creating a better observe ability posture within the train platform. So now the platform is going to run unsupervised right in the background um and ai apps is going to be able to take action on predictive incidents before they ever occur, that's what we're looking at in the future. You know, everything is getting more complex. We've heard this story a million times before, we want to be the platform that can handle that complexity on a massive scale, >>finding the unknown, unknowns, converting them into knowns I imagine is going to be more and more critical across every industry. Last question for you, given the culture and the dynamics of the market that we're in, are there any industries and all of trump's is seeing is really key targets for this type of technology. >>The nice thing about ops tramp is we are we are really vertical neutral, right? Any industry that has complexity and that's every industry can really take advantage of a platform like this. We have seen recent success particularly in finance manufacturing, health care because they deal with new emerging types of complexity that they are not necessarily cared for. So I think about some of our clients, some of our friends in the finance industry, you know, um as transactions accelerate as new customer experiences arise uh these are things that their operations teams need to be equipped for and that's where up tramp really drives value. What's more is that these uh these industries are also somewhat legacy, so they have a foot in the old way of doing things, they have a foot in the data center, you know, there are many financial institutions that have large data center footprint for security considerations. And so if they are living in the data center and they want to make the move to cloud, then they need something like cops ramp to be able to keep a foot in both sides of the equation, >>right, Keep that availability and that visibility. Jordan, thank you for joining me today and talking to us about ops around the capabilities that Ai ops can deliver to enterprises in any industry. The facilitation of of the I. T. Folks in the business folks and what you guys are doing with AWS, we appreciate your time. >>Absolutely lisa, thank you very much. Thanks for the great questions. If you ever need a job in corporate marketing, you seem like you're a natural fit. I'll >>call you awesome. >>Thank you >>for Jordan share. I'm lisa martin, You're watching the AWS startup showcase.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Yukon and Cloud. Native Con North America. 2020. Virtual Brought to You by Red Hat, The Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners Welcome back to the Cube. Virtual coverage of KUB Con Cloud native 2020. It's virtual this year. We're not face to face. Were normally in person where we have great interviews. Everyone's kind of jamming in the hallways, having a good time talking tech, identifying the new projects and knew where So we're not. There were remote. I'm John for your host. We've got two great gas, both Cuba alumni's Chris. And is it chief technology officer of the C and C F Chris, Welcome back. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Awesome. Glad to be here. >>And, of course, another Cube alumni who is in studio. But we haven't had him at a Show Jr store meant executive director of the Fin Ops Foundation. And that's the purpose of this session. A interesting data point we're going to dig into how cloud has been enabling Mawr communities, more networks of practitioners who are still working together, and it's also a success point Chris on the C N C F vision, which has been playing out beautifully. So we're looking forward to digging. Jr. Thanks for coming on. Great to see you. >>Yeah, great to be here. Thanks, John. >>So, first of all, I want to get the facts out there. I think this is really important story that people should pay attention to the Finn Ops Foundation. That J. R. That you're running is really an interesting success point because it's it's not the c n c f. Okay. It's a practitioner that builds on cloud. Your experience in community you had is doing specific things that they're I won't say narrow but specific toe a certain fintech things. But it's really about the success of Cloud. Can you explain and and layout for take a minute to explain What is the fin Ops foundation and has it relate to see NCF? >>Yeah, definitely. So you know, if you think about this, the shift that we've had to companies deploying primarily in cloud, whether it be containers a ciencia focuses on or traditional infrastructure. The thing that typically people focus on right is the technology and innovation and speed to market in all those areas. But invariably companies hit this. We'd like to call the spend panic moment where they realize they're They're initially spending much more than they expected. But more importantly, they don't really have the processes in place or the people or the tools to do things like fully, you know, understand where their costs are going to look at how to optimize those to operate that in their organizations. And so the foundation pinups foundation eyes really focused on, uh, the people in practitioners who are in organizations doing cloud financial management, which is, you know, being those who drive this accountability of this variable spin model that's existed. So we were partnering very closely with, uh, see NCF. And we're now actually part of the Linux Foundation as of a few months ago, Uh, and you know, just to kind of put into context how that you kind of Iraq together, whereas, you know, CNC s very focused on open source coordinative projects, you know, For example, Spotify just launched their backstage cloud called Management Tool into CFCF Spotify folks, in our end, are working on the best practices around the cloud financial management that standards to go along with that. So we're there to help, you know, define this sort of cultural transformation, which is a shift to now. Engineers happen to think about costs as they never did before. On finance, people happen to partner with technology teams at the speed of cloud, and, you know executives happen to make trade off decisions and really change the way that they operate the business. With this variable page ago, engineers have all the access to spend the money in Cloud Model. >>Hey, blank check for engineers who doesn't like that rain that in its like shift left for security. And now you've got to deal with the financial Finn ops. It's really important. It's super point, Chris. In all seriousness. Putting kidding aside, this is exactly the kind of thing you see with open sores. You're seeing things like shift left, where you wanna have security baked in. You know what Jr is done in a fabulous job with his community now part of Linux Foundation scaling up, there's important things to nail down that is specific to that domain that are related to cloud. What's your thoughts on this? Because you're seeing it play out. >>Yeah, no, I mean, you know, I talked to a lot of our end user members and companies that have been adopting Cloud Native and I have lots of friends that run, you know, cloud infrastructure at companies. And Justus Jr said, You know, eventually there's been a lot of success and cognitive and want to start using a lot of things. Your bills are a little bit more higher than you expect. You actually have trouble figuring out, you know, kind of who's using what because, you know, let's be honest. A lot of the clouds have built amazing services. But let's say the financial management and cost management accounting tools charge back is not really built in well. And so I kind of noticed this this issue where it's like, great everyone's using all these services. Everything is great, But costs are a little bit confusing, hard to manage and, you know, you know, scientifically, you know, I ran into, you know, Jr and his community out there because my community was having a need of like, you know, there's just not good tools, standards, no practices out there. And, you know, the Finau Foundation was working on these kind of great things. So we started definitely found a way to kind of work together and be under the same umbrella foundation, you know, under the under Linux Foundation. In my personal opinion, I see more and more standards and tools to be created in this space. You know, there's, you know, very few specifications or standards and trying to get cost, you know, data out of different clouds and tools out there, I predict, Ah, lot more work is going to be done. Um, in this space, whether it's done and defendants foundation itself, CNC f, I think will probably be, uh, collaboration amongst communities. Can I truly figure this out? So, uh, engineers have any easier understanding of, you know, if I spent up the service or experiment? How much is this actually going to potentially impact the cost of things and and for a while, You know, uh, engineers just don't think about this. When I was at Twitter, we spot up services all time without really care about cost on, and that's happening a lot of small companies now, which don't necessarily have as a big bucket. So I'm excited about the space. I think you're gonna see a huge amount of focus on cloud financial management drops in the near future. >>Chris, thanks for that great insight. I think you've got a great perspective. You know, in some cases, it's a fast and loose environment. Like Twitter. You mentioned you've got kind of a blank check and the rocket ships going. But, Jr, this brings up to kind of points. This kind of like the whole code side of it. The software piece where people are building code, but also this the human error. I mean, we were playing with clubs, so we have a big media cloud and Amazon and we left there. One of the buckets open on the switches and elemental. We're getting charged. Massive amounts for us cash were like, Wait a minute, not even using this thing. We used it once, and it left it open. It was like the water was flowing through the pipes and charging us. So you know, this human error is throwing the wrong switch. I mean, it was simply one configuration error, in some cases, just more about planning and thinking about prototypes. >>Yeah. I mean, so take what your experience there. Waas and multiply by 1000 development teams in a big organization who all have access to cloud. And then, you know, it's it's and this isn't really about a set of new technologies. It's about a new set of processes and a cultural change, as Chris mentioned, you know, engineers now thinking about cost and this being a whole new efficiency metric for them to manage, right? You know, finance teams now see this world where it's like tomorrow. The cost could go three x the next day they could go down. You've got, you know, things spending up by the second. So there's a whole set of cross functional, and that's the majority of the work that are members do is really around. How do we get these cross functional teams working together? How do we get you know, each team up leveled on what they need, understand with cloud? Because not only is it, you know, highly variable, but it's highly decentralized now, and we're seeing, you know, cloud hit. These sort of material spend levels where you know, the big, big cloud spenders out there spending, you know, high nine figures in some cases you know, in cloud and it's this material for their for their businesses. >>And let's just let's be honest. Here is like Clouds, for the most part, don't really have a huge incentive in offering limits and so on. It's just, you know, like, hey, the more usage that the better And hopefully getting a group of practitioners in real figures. Well, holy put pressure to build better tools and services in this area. I think actually it is happening. I think Jared could correct me if wrong. I think AWS recently announced a feature where I think it's finally like quotas, you know, enabled, you know, you have introducing quotas now for and building limits at some level, which, you know, I think it's 2020 Thank you know, >>just to push back a little bit in support of our friends, you ask Google this company, you know, for a long time doing this work, we were worried that the cloud would be like, What are you doing? Are you trying to get our trying to minimize commitments and you know the dirty secret of this type of work? And I were just talking a bunch of practitioners today is that cloud spend never really goes down. When you do this work, you actually end up spending more because you know you're more comfortable with the efficiency that you're getting, and your CEO is like, let's move more workloads over. But let's accelerate. Let's let's do Maurin Cloud goes out more data centers. And so the cloud providers air actually largely incentivized to say, Yeah, we want people to be officially don't understand this And so it's been a great collaboration with those companies. As you said, you know, aws, Google, that you're certainly really focused in this area and ship more features and more data for you. It's >>really about getting smart. I mean, you know, they no, >>you could >>do it. I mean, remember the old browser days you could switch the default search engine through 10 menus. You could certainly find the way if you really wanted to dig in and make policy a simple abstraction layer feature, which is really a no brainer thing. So I think getting smarter is the right message. I want to get into the synergy Chris, between this this trend, because I think this points to, um kind of what actually happened here if you look at it at least from my perspective and correct me if I'm wrong. But you had jr had a community of practitioners who was sharing information. Sounds like open source. They're talking and sharing, you know? Hey, don't throw that switch. Do This is the best practice. Um, that's what open communities do. But now you're getting into software. You have to embed cost management into everything, just like security I mentioned earlier. So this trend, I think if you kind of connect the dots is gonna happen in other areas on this is really the synergy. Um, I getting that right with CNC >>f eso The way I see it is, and I dream of a future where developers, as they develop software, will be able to have some insight almost immediately off how much potential, you know, cost or impact. They'll have, you know, on maybe a new service or spinning up or potentially earlier in the development cycle saying, Hey, maybe you're not doing this in a way that is efficient. Maybe you something else. Just having that feedback loop. Ah lot. You know, closer to Deb time than you know a couple weeks out. Something crazy happens all of a sudden you notice, You know, based on you know, your phase or financial folks reaching out to you saying, Hey, what's going on here? This is a little bit insane. So I think what we'll see is, as you know, practitioners and you know, Jr spinoffs, foundation community, you know, get together share practices. A lot of them, you know, just as we saw on sense. Yeah, kind of build their own tools, models, abstractions. And, you know, they're starting to share these things. And once you start sharing these things, you end up with a you know, a dozen tools. Eventually, you know, sharing, you know, knowledge sharing, code sharing, you know, specifications. Sharing happens Eventually, things kind of, you know, become de facto tools and standards. And I think we'll see that, you know, transition in the thin ops community over the next 12 to 4 months. You know, very soon in my thing. I think that's kind of where I see things going, >>Jr. This really kind of also puts a riel, you know, spotlight and illustrates the whole developer. First cliche. I mean, it's really not a cliche. It's It's happening. Developers first, when you start getting into the calculations of our oi, which is the number one C level question is Hey, what's the are aware of this problem Project or I won't say cover your ass. But I mean, if someone kind of does a project that it breaks the bank or causes a, you know, financial problem, you know, someone gets pulled out to the back would shed. So, you know, here you're you're balancing both ends of the spectrum, you know, risk management on one side, and you've got return on investment on the other. Is that coming out from the conversation where you guys just in the early stages, I could almost imagine that this is a beautiful tailwind for you? These thes trends, >>Yeah. I mean, if you think about the work that we're doing in our practice you're doing, it's not about saving money. It's about making money because you actually want empower those engineers to be the innovation engines in the organization to deliver faster to ship faster. At the same time, they now can have, you know, tangible financial roo impacts on the business. So it's a new up leveling skill for them. But then it's also, I think, to Christmas point of, you know, people seeing this stuff more quickly. You know what the model looks like when it's really great is that engineers get near real time visibility into the impact of their change is on the business, and they can start to have conversations with the business or with their finance partners about Okay, you know, if you want me to move fast, I could move fast, But it's gonna cost this if you want me to optimize the cost. I could do that or I can optimize performance. And there's actually, you know, deeper are like conversation the candidate up. >>Now I know a lot of people who watch the Cube always share with me privately and Chris, you got great vision on this. We talked many times about it. We're learning a lot, and the developers are on the front lines and, you know, a lot of them don't have MBAs and, you know they're not in the business, but they can learn quick. If you can code, you can learn business. So, you know, I want you to take a minute Jr and share some, um, educational knowledge to developers were out there who have to sit in these meetings and have to say, Hey, I got to justify this project. Buy versus build. I need to learn all that in business school when I had to see s degree and got my MBA, so I kind of blended it together. But could you share what the community is doing and saying, How does that engineer sit in the meeting and defend or justify, or you some of the best practices what's coming out of the foundation? >>Yeah, I mean, and we're looking at first what a core principles that the whole organization used to line around. And then for each persona, like engineers, what they need to know. So I mean, first and foremost, it's It's about collaboration, you know, with their partners andan starting to get to that world where you're thinking about your use of cloud from a business value driver, right? Like, what is the impact of this? The critical part of that? Those early decentralization where you know, now you've got everybody basically taking ownership for their cloud usage. So for engineers, it's yes, we get that information in front of us quickly. But now we have a new efficiency metric. And engineers don't like inefficiency, right? They want to write fishing code. They wanna have efficient outcomes. Um, at the same time, those engineers need to now, you know, have ah, we call it, call it a common lexicon. Or for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, folks. Ah, Babel fish that needs to be developed between these teams. So a lot of the conversations with engineers right now is in the foundation is okay. What What financial terms do I need to understand? To have meaningful conversations about Op X and Capex? And what I'm going to make a commitment to a cloud provider like a committed use discount, Google or reserved instance or savings Planet AWS. You know, Is it okay for me to make that? What? How does that impact our, you know, cost of capital. And then and then once I make that, how do I ensure that I could work with those teams to get that allocated and accounted? The right area is not just for charge back purposes, but also so that my teams can see my portion of the estate, right? And they were having the flip side of that conversation with all the finance folks of like, You need to understand how the variable cloud, you know, model works. And you need to understand what these things mean and how they impact the business. And then all that's coming together. And to the point of like, how we're working with C and C f you know, into best practices White papers, you know, training Siri's etcetera, sets of KP eyes and capabilities. Onda. All these problems have been around for years, and I wouldn't say they're solved. But the knowledge is out there were pulling it together. The new level that we're trying to talk with the NCF is okay. In the old world of Cloud, you had 1 to 1 use of a resource. You're running a thing on an instance in the new world, you're running in containers and that, you know, cluster may have lots of pods and name spaces, things inside of it that may be doing lots of different workloads, and you can no longer allocate. I've got this easy to instance and this storage to this thing it's now split up and very ephemeral. And it is a whole new layer of virtualization on top of virtual ization that we didn't have to deal with before. >>And you've got multiple cloud. I'll throw that in there, just make another dimension on it. Chris, tie this together cause this is nice energy to scale up what he's built with the community now, part of the Linux Foundation. This fits nicely into your vision, you know, perfectly. >>Yeah, no, 100% like, you know, so little foundation. You know, as you're well, well aware, is just a federation of open source foundations of groups working together to share knowledge. So it definitely fits in kind of the little foundation mission of, you know, building the largest share technology investment for, you know, humankind. So definitely good there with my kind of C and C f c T o hat, you know, on is, you know, I want to make sure that you know, you know my community and and, you know, the community of cloud native has access and, you know, knowledge about modern. You know, cloud financial management practices out there. If you look at some of the new and upcoming projects in ciencia things like, you know, you know, backstage, which came out of Spotify. They're starting to add functionality that, you know, you know, originally backstage kind of started out as this, you know, everyone builds their own service catalog to go catalog, and you know who owns what and, you know and all that goodness and developers used it. And eventually what happened is they started to add cost, you know, metrics to each of these services and so on. So it surfaces things a little bit closer, you know, a depth time. So my whole goal is to, you know, take some of these great, you know, practices and potential tools that were being built by this wonderful spinoffs community and trying to bring it into the project. You know, front inside of CNC F. So having more projects either exposed, you know, useful. You know, Finn, ops related metrics or, you know, be able to, you know, uh, you know, tool themselves to quickly be able to get useful metrics that could be used by thin ox practitioners out there. That's my kind of goal. And, you know, I just love seeing two communities, uh, come together to improve, improve the state of the world. >>It's just a great vision, and it's needed so and again. It's not about saving money. Certainly does that if you play it right, but it's about growth and people. You need better instrumentation. You need better data. You've got cloud scale. Why not do something there, right? >>Absolutely. It's just maturity after the day because, you know, a lot of engineers, you know, they just love this whole like, you know, rental model just uses many Resource is they want, you know, without even thinking about just basic, you know, metrics in terms of, you know, how many idle instances do I have out there and so, like, people just don't think about that. They think about getting the work done, getting the job done. And if they anything we do to kind of make them think a little bit earlier about costs and impact efficiency, charge back, you know, I think the better the world isn't Honestly, you know, I do see this to me. It's It's almost like, you know, with my hippie hat on. It's like Stephen Green or for the more efficient we are. You know, the better the world off cloud is coming. Can you grow? But we need to be more efficient and careful about the resource is that we use in sentencing >>and certainly with the pandemic, people are virtually you wanted mental health, too. I mean, if people gonna be pulling their hair out, worrying about dollars and cents at scale, I mean, people are gonna be freaking out and you're in meetings justifying why you did things. I mean, that's a time waster, right? I mean, you know, talking about wasting time. >>I have a lot of friends who, you know, run infrastructure at companies. And there's a lot of you know, some companies have been, you know, blessed during this, you know, crazy time with usage. But there is a kind of laser focused on understanding costs and so on and you not be. Do not believe how difficult it is sometimes even just to get, you know, reporting out of these systems, especially if you're using, you know, multiple clouds and multiple services across them. It's not. It's non trivial. And, you know, Jared could speak to this, But, you know, a lot of this world runs in like terrible spreadsheets, right and in versus kind of, you know, nice automated tools with potential, a p I. So there's a lot of this stuff. It's just done sadly in spreadsheets. >>Yeah, salute the flag toe. One standard to rally around us. We see this all the time Jr and emerging inflection points. No de facto kind of things develop. Kubernetes took that track. That was great. What's your take on what he just said? I mean, this is a critical path item for people from all around. >>Yeah, and it's It's really like becoming this bigger and bigger data problem is well, because if you look at the way the clouds are building, they're building per seconds and and down to the very fine grain detail, you know, or functions and and service. And that's amazing for being able to have accountability. But also you get people with at the end of the month of 300 gigabyte billing files, with hundreds of millions of rows and columns attached. So, you know, that's where we do see you companies come together. So yeah, it is a spreadsheet problem, but you can now no longer open your bill in a spreadsheet because it's too big. Eso you know, there's the native tools are doing a lot of work, you know, as you mentioned, you know, AWS and Azure Google shipping a lot. There's there's great, you know, management platforms out there. They're doing work in this area, you know, there's there's people trying to build their own open source the things like Chris was talking about as well. But really, at the end of the day like this, this is This is not a technology. Changes is sort of a cultural shift internally, and it's It's a lot like the like, you know, move from data center to cloud or like waterfall to Dev ops. It's It's a shift in how we're managing, you know, the finances of the money in the business and bringing these groups together. So it it takes time and it takes involvement. I'm also amazed I look like the job titles of the people who are plugged into the Phenoms Foundation and they range from like principal engineers to tech procurement. Thio you know, product leaders to C. T. O. S. And these people are now coming together in the classic to get a seat at the table right toe, Have these conversations and talk about not How do we reduce, you know, cost in the old eighties world. But how do we work together to be more quickly to innovate, to take advantage of these cognitive technologies so that we could be more competitive? Especially now >>it's automation. I mean, all these things are at play. It's about software. I mean, software defined operations is clearly the trend we've been covering. You guys been riding the wave cloud Native actually is so important in all these modern APS, and it applies to almost every aspect of stacks, so makes total sense. Great vision. Um, Chris props to you for that, Jr. Congratulations on a great community, Jerry. I'll give you the final word. Put a plug in for the folks watching on the fin ops Foundation where you're at. What are you looking to do? You adding people, What's your objectives? Take a minute to give the plug? >>Yeah, definitely. We were in open source community, which means we thrive on people contributing inputs. You know, we've got now almost 3000 practitioner members, which is up from 1500 just this this summer on You know, we're looking for those who have either an interesting need to plug into are checked advisory council to help define standards as part of this event, The cognitive gone we're launching Ah, white paper on kubernetes. Uh, and how to do confidential management for it, which was a collaborative effort of a few dozen of our practitioners, as well as our vendor members from VM Ware and Google and APP Thio and a bunch of others who have come together to basically defined how to do this. Well, and, you know, we're looking for folks to plug into that, you know, because at the end of the day, this is about everybody sort of up leveling their skills and knowledge and, you know, the knowledge is out there, nobody's head, and we're focused on how toe drive. Ah, you know, a central collection of that be the central community for it. You enable the people doing this work to get better their jobs and, you know, contribute more of their companies. So I invite you to join us. You know, if your practitioner ITT's Frito, get in there and plug into all the bits and there's great slack interaction channels where people are talking about kubernetes or pinups kubernetes or I need to be asked Google or where we want to go. So I hope you consider joining in the community and join the conversation. >>Thanks for doing that, Chris. Good vision. Thanks for being part of the segment. And, as always, C N C F. This is an enablement model. You throw out the soil, but the 1000 flowers bloom. You don't know what's going to come out of it. You know, new standards, new communities, new vendors, new companies, some entrepreneur Mike jump in this thing and say, Hey, I'm gonna build a better tool. >>Love it. >>You never know. Right? So thanks so much for you guys for coming in. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate. >>Thanks so much, John. >>Thank you for having us. >>Okay. I'm John Furry, the host of the Cube covering Coop Con Cloud, Native Con 2020 with virtual This year, we wish we could be there face to face, but it's cute. Virtual. Thanks for watching

>> Narrator: From the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston, it's the Cube, covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Everybody. Welcome back to this special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Aaron millstone is back, he's the senior vice president of Oracle Consulting. He's joined by Jeff Davis, who's the principal at Deloitte. He's the chief Commercial Officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you, welcome. We see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals, you know, I love you, you love me, there's a press release and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay, is their teeth behind this? So you guys have come up with with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >> Well, elevate, really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed. On the Deloitte side as Aaron suggested, we have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle. At the same time, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud infrastructure, and Oracle autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's. And Aaron also had access to Oracle development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together, and we could offer something to our clients and the broad range of Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Deloitte's capabilities which include great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools and had resources trained and developed around the latest Oracle Technology, they'd always be a step ahead of any SI. So together, we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace. >> One of the things we look forward there, is there any other integration? Are you doing co-engineering? In this case maybe not co-engineering, but are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market that you're actually leveraging? Aaron, can you talk about that a little bit and convince us that's not just the sales play? >> Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier too, right. So we definitely each had our respective tooling, right on Deloitte investments and tools. One was called ATADATA that we've seen use quite a few times now. We've invested in something we called Oracle Soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focused it's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud, ATADATA and some of the tools that Deloitte invested in are focused more comprehensively on holistically it looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and starts to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things. And we said, "You know what if you combine these together, "we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly "it is that we're looking at with a customer". So we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff, we can start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things not past or out of supporter, but get a very comprehensive view that's based on facts. And so you know, we took those tools and we've combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end to end view from both an Oracle and Deloitte perspective and quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether Deloitte leads or whether Oracle leads we've developed these tools together we're going to market together and we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies to have, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joined business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers, and therefore then we're refining them and improving them each time we do it. But you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, our templates are combined. And we even at this you know, we were even Jeff and I were on a call earlier, yesterday actually we even got a joint, a war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >> Aaron you and I have talked about you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center consolidation as a call it a, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if we could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >> Yeah, it's well it's definitely starting point right. So we call it a referred to as infrastructure lead transformation. And appetite, the appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on you know, what do customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there but how do they get out of the data center business holes? So it's sort of it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Or should we invest in up to in our data centers? The question has changed to let's move to cloud, how do we get there? And let's move in a big way. And that's, we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And quit frankly, even for Oracle, it's been a learning curve for us, right? We started with an Oracle workload conversation, which is you want to move this Oracle workloads to Oracle's cloud, you want to move that Oracle workload over to cloud. And really what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in a data center to one or more clouds right again, often, it's a multi cloud strategy and that's okay. And we you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting as these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear. And then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes some very compelling conversations for customers, because you can walk in to a CIO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend than what you have today in your data center, and get a cloud transformation underway at the same time. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that business case. Is that generally what you're seeing where it starts is let's take some costs right out and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future but is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately? >> So I'd like to share our perspective. Which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology, it's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewable and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud. We're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today had at a level of security and scalability and ability to run modern technology. Much faster, much better, and much more scalable. >> Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey, maybe thinking about a couple of customer sizer specifically or generically, kind of where you're at with them? How far along maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >> Sure, you know, the relationship has been probably about six, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. We've worked together in collaboration on one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense, and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in a various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream, and one is at the early stages. And current economic conditions we're driving a huge pipeline right now. I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline right now. What we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more what people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. And but almost every case, we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity, that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way in streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that these days security is a major concern. And we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >> How do you guys and how to customers want to approach the transaction is it a fixed fee? Is that a TNM? Is it a situation where you participate in some of the savings or the gain? How does the pricing work? >> I'll start off by saying, each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs. What they're trying to get out of it. Right now as an example, Op-X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around Op-X. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle finance, so we can be very innovative on deals. They can be when value is attained, they can be milestone based. There's just I think, a wide variety. I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity they may be looking at. >> What does success look like? You know, when you sort of you know, just less than a year in, when you're two, three, four let's say five years in and you look back, what does success look like Aaron? >> So to me successful, success is going to look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion naturally between our organizations not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving organizational behavior right away. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into, we've gone beyond the conversation of let's move workloads we've gone into conversations of let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud, and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that point three, four or five years from now, right, that'll be a wild success Michael. >> Jeff final comment. Deloitte has been around for 175 years. This is our birthday this year and in that time, What we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what success looks like is client success. Find success means improved scalability of their operations. Securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core business is, and focus less on technology, that success to Deloitte. >> Great, guys, thanks so much. Great session, we're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming in the cube. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us.

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah! >>Everybody, welcome back to the special digital presentation where we are tracking the transformation of Oracle consulting. And really, it's rebirth. Aaron Millstone is back. He's the senior vice president of consulting, joined by Jeff Davis. Who's ah, principal at Deloitte. He's the chief commercial officer for Oracle at Deloitte. Gentlemen, good to see you. Welcome. >>Thank you very much. >>Thanks for having me back. >>You're welcome, guys. Jeff, let me start with you. I've got the obvious question is why would Deloitte World Class? Yes, I well known why you partnering with Oracle Consultant? >>We're really It was a perfect match. The fact that we were looking to grow our oracle practice and really new and innovative ways around Oracle's cloud technology. Uh, in discussions with the oil, coal and specifically with Aaron Millstone, we discovered that we really had complementary capabilities and very little overlapping capabilities. So it was natural for us to find a way to work together. And specifically we found that there were strategic assets we had and there were tactical assets that Oracle had the mixture of two made a really unique and compelling value proposition for the customer base >>and Aaron. I mean, we've talked about the shift from from staff augmentation to much more strategic partnering with your customers. But you're not trying to compete with the big size of there's, there's it sounds like there's not a lot of overlap there. Where do you pick up and leave off for Deloitte? You describe that? >>Sure. I mean, we're You're right, right? We're not. We're not ever going to try to compete with the Deloitte. It's not our that's not in our DNA. It's not our intention. We exist to drive Oracle's to drive success for our customers on Oracle's cloud. That's that's our mantra. That's what we focus in on. So for us, right, we're deep technologists. We're We understand our cloud. We understand how cloud works within our various product suites that we migrate to the cloud. We understand how to manage it. We understand how to build paths extensions to it, but we don't have big program management. We don't understand non oracle components that well, you know, we've got some expertise here and there. But if we need to expand, you know, on Oracle solution to coexist with a Microsoft azure solution, we can't do that without going to a partner and as we bigger and the transformation that they're gonna have to change management and big, big transformation journey capabilities. Like again, That's not That's not expertise. >>Yeah, so Jeff will come back to you. So we see a lot of these deals. Sometimes we call them Barney deals. I love you. You love me. There's a press release, and that's it. But so one of the things we look for okay is their teeth behind this. You guys have come out with what you call elevate. What is elevate? How did it get started? And I have some follow up questions. >>Yeah, well, elevate really got started when Aaron and I started to look at the assets that each of the firms possessed on the Deloitte side, as Aaron suggested, We have deep capabilities and a broad range of technologies, some of them competing technologies with Oracle at the same time. Uh, we didn't have a great deal of depth in Oracle's technical products, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure and Oracle Autonomous. Our bench was not as big as Aaron's, and Aaron also had access to your local development at a level that we didn't have access to. So we really found ourselves in a situation where we could put those two capabilities together and we could offer something to our clients and a broad range of customers. Oracle customers in the field. They had access to all of the Lloyds capabilities, which includes great project management, great change management, real skill around the strategic aspects of cloud migration. And Aaron had tools on had resource is trained and developed around the late historical technology. They'd always be a step ahead of any s I So together we felt this was really a differentiation for marketplace, right, Erin? >>Yeah, absolutely right. And if I don't think I would add to it is that if you if you look at Deloitte approaches client conversation from, ah, business value perspective, you know, the work consulting teams tends to focus conversation. It tends to approach conversations with a focus on How do you want to do the technology? Um, both are helpful. But, you know, quite frankly, as we get into the bigger information in place, we need to lead with the Lloyd model of how do we How do we drive your business value and then begin from a technologist perspective, that's when we show up. So it really has been a very logical, very complimentary match. >>So you and I have talked about, you know, data centers and building data centers and investing. It's not just it's just not a good use of capital today. There's so many other things that organizations can do. You guys have identified data center. Consolidation is, is I'll call it Ah, you know, an initiative that you're seeing customers. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. Is that kind of a starting point for conversations? >>Yeah, well, it's definitely starting point, right? So we call it a referred to his infrastructure led transformation, Um, and appetite. The appetite for that is certainly high. We were seeing an increased focus on um, you know what customers need to do to take not just a workload here and there. But how do they get out of the data center business full? So it's a foregone conclusion, right? Like you just said, it's not. It's not really a question of should we invest in another data center? Where should we invest in up to in their data centers? The question has changed to Let's move the cloud. How do we get there and let's move in a big way? And that's why we're seeing that dialogue across all of our customers. And we find even for Oracle, it's been a learning for us, right? We started with on Oracle workload conversation, which is, Do you want to move this work? Work loads of oracle? But you want to move that Oracle workload works. And really, what we're finding is it's a wholesale transformation of everything in the data center, too. One or more clouds, right again, often often it's a multi cloud strategy, and that's okay. And we, you know, we were having more bigger conversations. The thing that has been really interesting is these conversations have evolved, and especially as we work with our partners at Deloitte, has been that, you know, we think that the combination of our our cloud technology, the consulting services that Oracle Consulting and Deloitte can bring to bear and then Oracle's ability to finance the whole deal makes the very compelling conversations for customers because you can walk in to a CEO to a CFO and say, Look on day one, you can actually have a lower spend that what you have today in your data center and get a cop transformation underway at the same time. >>So I want to come back to that business case and member Jeff, before we do, I want to ask you. So we heard Erin, you know, talking about the catalyst. You know, that sort of infrastructure transformation. But you're in the outcomes business, right in both. The bush has been deployed especially so So what is that North Star that you're seeing with customers? You know, it's not about the tech. They're not starting there. Um, that will often tell you that's kind of the easy part. But then we see tech coming and going, and it's the It's the business process. That's the people issues lining everybody. So what are you seeing is so the outcomes. What's that conversation like with your customers? >>Yeah, well, really, this conversation starts with business leadership. Um, if you think about it, there's a strong value proposition in infrastructure renewal. It's not at the top of mind, but once you start to understand the value that's created, it does raise two ah, high priority. Now, our experiences that virtually every board is looking for the C suite toe have a cloud strategy of some kind. People recognize the value of cloud in, uh in many of our clients and many of Oracle's customers, so the boards are pressing the C suite for a cloud strategy. Among those things are the value that cloud brings, including virtually unlimited scalability. Is is being tested real time now with a lot of current events. So when you see the scalability when you know you need a cloud strategy of some kind, your business advisors impressing you, the value proposition starts well, how do we get there? And what does it take to be successful? Our perspective is that it's it's fair to believe that the cloud will reduce infrastructure. Spend significantly. It's a great opportunity for consolidation. It also adds a layer of security, resiliency and scalability that you simply couldn't do on your own. So it addresses a lot of business needs Aziz well as a number of technical needs that need to be addressed. >>So let's talk a little bit more about that business cases that generally what you're seeing, where it starts is let's take some costs right out, and then Aaron, you and I talked about maybe investing that in the future of it. But is that really the starting point for the vast majority of customers? Let's let's let's cut some costs right away and get a payback immediately. >>So I'd like to share our perspective, which is, you know, nobody spends money for the sake of spending money on technology. It's got to have meaningful business value. So the conversation starts with really renewal and a path to the cloud. But there's a natural opportunity for savings in consolidation that we take advantage. We're not simply shifting from your hardware to the cloud we're actually modernizing, which will result in significant savings. But it also gives the business something that they don't have today at a level of security and scalability and ability to run a modern technology much faster, much better. Ah, and much more scalable. >>So a lot of people might again I go back to these deals. I think of this as a sales play. One of the things we look for is there. Is there any other integration? Are you doing co engineering in this case, maybe not, co engineering But are there tools that you're developing that you're taking to market, that you're actually leveraging? Eric, can you talk about that a little bit? Convinces. That's not just the sales play. >>Yeah, sure. And Jeff alluded to some of this earlier, too, right? So we definitely each had our respective tool. Angry Deloitte's investments in tools, what was built out of data that we have seen used quite a few times now we've been investing in something we call the Oracle soar. You know, our tools are, as you'd imagine, heavily Oracle focus. It's about moving Oracle technology to Oracle Cloud out of data and some of the tools that Deloitte's invested in our focus more comprehensively on holistically, looking at everything in a data center and everything that's across data centers and start to develop a set of facts around this stuff. But in both cases, we actually looked at these things and we said, You know what? If you combine these together, we get a very comprehensive view of what exactly it is, but we're looking at with a customer so we can tell everything from the types of traffic we see in the network to the specific versions of stuff you start to identify whether there's risk associated with having things, not aster on a supporter and get a very conference of you that's based on facts. And so, you know, we took those tools. We combined them together so that we can go into a customer and give a complete end and view from both on Oracle and Delight Perspective. And quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether the Lloyd leads or whether Oracle leads. We've developed these tools together. We're going to market together. And we've even got you know, the templates you'd expect consultancies tohave, right? So when you look at business cases, we've got joint business case templates that we've created together and that we're using actively with customers and therefore then we're refining them, improving them each time we do it. But, you know, we're at a point now where our tools are combined, templates are combined, and we even at this, you know, we're even Jeff in our poll earlier yesterday actually even got a joint Ah, war room that's constantly engaging with different account teams and making sure that we structurally approach things in a consistent way so that we're driving business value and using the tools appropriately. >>You know, I think, um, migration risk is probably one of the most significant factors in a business case. I mean, many don't understand it, but those in I t. And certainly hopefully in the executive office do you understand it? It sounds like that's a part of your tooling, anyway is designed to mitigate that's significant migration risk. When you talk about that a little bit, >>yeah, so we, you know, we approach migration from, you know, we start with the conversation. I'm almost always some type of log of what? The list of applications, what versions of things running they've been maintained by some might department somewhere, right? Or the collective? It's in varying degrees of accuracy is what we find. We don't rely on that. We go in and our our tools, our combined tooling across oracle, Deloitte interrogate the systems. We come back with actual information from the actual systems themselves. And then we started the plan. And so the funny thing is, with the migration, you know, probably 80% of the effort. 90% of the effort is in the planning stages and making sure that we understand exactly what we're moving exactly. When again, we're not. We're not dealing with the edge applications. Typically, we're dealing with the mission critical applications that are supporting the heart of a supply chain or a finance operation. And you can't. You just can't afford the down time that maybe you could afford on something that might be a consumer facing or a little less mission. Critical. So, yeah, we start finding very early and interrogate aggressively with actual data. >>Jeff, can you give us a sense as to how far you're into this elevate journey? May be thinking about a couple of customers either specifically or generically gonna where you're at with them. How far along? Maybe even some examples that you feel are representative. >>Sure. Um, you know, the the relationship has been probably about six Ah, close to seven months of maturity. In that time, we've had an opportunity to work on several key clients at scale. Uh, we've worked together in collaboration with one of the nation's largest retailers in the grocery business. We've worked collaboratively in aerospace and defense and also in the hospitality industry. In these cases, what we're finding and one is each one is in the various stage of maturity. One is done, one is in midstream on one is at the early stages and current economic conditions or driving a huge pipeline. Right now, I think our challenge right now is making sure that we identify those clients that can best take a value, take advantage of our services and our joint offering to deal with that pipeline. Right now, what we're finding is that the savings are at least as we projected. In some cases, we're finding even more. What people say they have and what people say they do isn't necessarily what you find when you get in there. But almost every case we're finding that there's unused equipment, unused capacity that they currently have redundancy, low utilization of their current assets. We can go a long way and streamlining that. Plus, I can't emphasize enough that ah, these days security is a major concern and we're adding a layer of security that they could never achieve themselves with soft. >>How do you guys on how the customers wanna approach the transaction? Is it a Bixby is a T and M. Is it a situation where you participate in some of the some of the savings of the game. How does the pricing work? >>So we have Go >>ahead. Um, I'll start off by saying each deal is really custom built around what a customer really needs, what they're trying to get out of it right now. As an example, Op X is very important. So we're engineering deals in a way that helps customers deal with their financial challenges, especially around op Ex. There are other structures that we can put in place. We have the backing of Oracle Finance, so we can be very innovative on deals they could be. When value was attained. They could be milestone based. There's just, uh, I think, a wide variety I don't want to say unlimited, but a wide variety of different options that we can offer our clients in order to be able to deal with whatever financial challenge or opportunity that may be looking at >>perfect, perfect. And you want >>to add to that >>and everything looking at other than you know, the there are. There are always things that are discovered during a personal project, and so, you know, we we also we do factor and things that allow some flexibility. Right? So even if we have a fixed price deal will include a bucket of ours to deal with, you know, unanticipated changes or even innovation. It doesn't have to be, You know, contingency could be Hey, we want to go out and spend and invest some money on artificial intelligence machine learning analytics over in this space since we've already moved these applications. All right, so we're approaching it again from a very flexible standpoint, and we're just point right. We can we can custom craft. Ah, deal to match what? The clients. Best business outcome. Okay. >>Yeah, that makes sense. That client might see some adjacent opportunity that they want to pursue, and they want that to be covered in the agreement I'm gonna end. Um, if you start with you, Aaron and then Jeff go to you. How? What do you guys see? A success? What does success look like? You know, when you were, you know, just less than a year in when you're 234 let's say five years and you look back, What does success look like? >>So, to me, successful success is gonna look like we've gotten a number of these big transformation deals in play. It's in motion, naturally between our organizations, not necessarily driven entirely by Jeff and I going out and driving the organization behave the right way. It's more in our DNA. But more importantly, I think we've gone into We've gone beyond the conversation of Let's Move workloads. We've gone into conversations off. Let's really talk about how to reimagine your business on top of Oracle's cloud and have an ongoing dialogue that looks at that transformation. Once we hit that 0.345 years from now, right, that will be a wild success, Jeff. >>But really, it's been around for 135 years. This is our birthday, uh, this year and in that time, what we've learned is there's no substitute for impact and value added to our clients. In our perspective, what this would success looks like his client success find success means improved scalability of their operations, uh, securing their technology and their data at a substantially lower cost, so that they can focus on what their core businesses and focus less on technology. That success to deploy >>right guys, thanks so much. Great session We're not only witnessing the rebirth of Oracle Consulting, but there's clearly a transformation going on. And it's cultural. Gentlemen, congratulations on your partnership. And thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thank you so much >>for having us. >>You're welcome. Alright, Keep right there, everybody. We're back with our next guest covering Oracle Consulting North America. This is Dave Vellante with the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, >>yeah.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube covering your storage accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. How >> do you all how to do Dave Great Legal garden with you? Yes, I am Lisa Martin with David Lantana. And can you guess we're in Texas were at pure Accelerate 2019 Day one of our coverage here and the Buzzy Expo Hall. Pleased to welcome one of Pierre's customers to the Q B of Jason Thomas, the CEO of Coal, Scott Hussein or C. S K Legal Jason. Welcome to the program. So talk to us a little bit about si es que legal. You're based out of Florida. You're CEO. Give us a little bit of a picture of the law firm, your I T environment and your role. ISS leader of information >> So cold, Scott is saying, >> has been around >> 20 plus years. I joined about three and 1/2 years ago, Um, and we have now this one. We have 13 officers. We just opened up 13th office. We're the largest law firm in Florida currently, and only in Florida. Interestingly enough, I actually live and work out of Boston, but you know, these days there's no reason why you can't work remote. I go, they're off enoughto needed. >> You can avoid the hurricanes by living in >> a snowstorm over >> hurting any >> day because I've been a >> good pro sports in Boston. Better, better college sports in Florida. >> Yeah, No one cares about college sports. >> Best of both worlds. All right, so we're here Appear. You guys have been appear customer for a while. But give us this This picture of the legal landscape from a data volume perspective, I could imagine tons of documentation. I think you guys have hundreds of attorneys. What were some of the challenges three years ago when you were looking for the ideal long? You know, storage service is that you were really looking to four companies like your help eliminate and allow you to really deliver on the business needs. >> So we're heavy, heavy volume, business tons and tons of documents. Um, And when I came on board 39 years ago, the ever start of iron was basically a lot of physical servers, a lot of local storage which, quite frankly, scared me. I came from my previous company. I was that I came from a nap shop And that was when my first initiatives was bringing in a sand into the firm and centralizing all the storage on also setting up D r a cz. Well, along with that. So it started evaluation process pretty much within a few months, coming on board the firm. >> So you knew Netapp. Sorry, Dave. You knew Net up your pure customer perspective. Of what? For some of those things that you were looking for that when you found pure was, like, checks all the boxes. >> I can tell you what I wasn't looking for. It was I wasn't looking to hire a storage admin. So I want to find something super simple demand something that I could manage or any of the guys could manage any this this admits, could manage. So that was like starting point of the evaluation. >> So you had a bunch of sounds like discreet Dad asked direct access storage, and he said that concern you, presumably because it was hard to manage to get a handle on. So you wanted to consolidate >> way had if we had our sequel No sequel box go down down for a day, and, uh, do you ever stole from backups in previous night. Not really a good set up at the time >> in our most of your attorneys century, located in one location. Are they distributed there? >> They're spread out all across up and down floors. So we have 13 offices. So between there, they're all over the place. But a lot of work remote down, too. So that's becoming a big thing as well. So the >> reason I asked you to get the pendulum swinging right, you had almost ass, and then you went to a sin. And now this. You got the head you get cloud. I don't know if you're taking advantage of cloud, are you? >> Uh, we are actually we a lot of our software now that we've slowly start to move a lot of our main main line products to the cloud or a cloud edition of this product. So I would say we're probably 50 to 60% cloud now. >> Yes. So you were tied up in the keynotes this morning, but one of the things we heard in the key notice you could have the pure management experience. No matter where your data lives, bring the the pure cloud experience to your date on Prim and the public cloud hybrid. Is that something that's appealing to you? Is that resonate? Yeah. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. It makes it. Look, I can I can actually blogging appear one of my phone if I want to, you know, and check the room. Not that I ever do. Quite. I'll say I never really need to look at >> it. Well, your c i o. Right. I mean, you got other things to worry about. Get my I would like >> to be involved with fingers in it. >> It's interesting. So I mean, you know, a lot of time CEOs, they don't they let, but your tech I love your technical. See a lot of that. A lot of technical CEOs as well, but But also, you don't want to hire a storage admin. Correct. So you want general is to be able to deal this stuff. Okay, so you know your question. Why? Why pure? What would you look at? And >> so we looked at, um, way looked at HP street power. Big name. Um, we looked at fewer and we looked at 10 tree and I pretty much especially with three part I knew that would be management heavy so that when I toss that one out pretty quickly, not that it's not a great product. But it just wasn't for me or what I was >> the right fit. >> You're not right for us. So we came down the pier and 10 tree. I had a had a buddy who worked at another law firm, and he's like and he was like, Look, just don't even waste time just go pure And it's a phrase that I use Sometimes I stole from him, but he he's like, Dude, this is like storage crack. You'll love it. >> Storage crack. Wow, They need a T shirt. That first >> first hit's free. Okay, so that was the right fit for you. It was your peer was appear that that enticed you. That's obviously take a bit. I presume you take a lot of hair advice. >> Lot appeared, but we didn't even do a POC. >> Wow, this is this is a good period that you obviously trust. >> All right, how to >> see was the interface yet you showed me the interface on a phone call one time, and he's like, this is it. I'm like, That's it. >> What did you actually bring in. What are you using? >> I'm sorry, >> What products That you're actually using, What? Or with pure >> Oh, so I'm sorry. Um Exchange sequel. Um, that our main line, our bookkeeping time, time and building. All that that that's that's the meaning of >> all the legal absent all the legal dated the data stores. Which product from pure is that? Do you know a fan? Is it? Uh, it's the all flash array. Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Yes, it's the FBI. >> Yeah. Okay. And so, thinking about before and after hell kind of a as is and the to be how would you compare and contrast two when you brought it in the pre in the post >> your environment. >> Oh, for your business. >> That's Ah, good question. I felt more comfortable sleeping at night. You know why? Just the reliability of the ease of management. You know, if we need to bring up a volume or expanded volume, we could do it very quickly. It doesn't. It doesn't take a rocket science to do it. And from everyone I spoke to I mean, I can't I'm not I can't speak to it, but I can't. I don't I don't believe I've ever talked anybody that's had an outage or whether you raise gone down. In fact, it seems that they tell me before we even know if there's, you know, an issue. Andi. They jump on it right away. So we've never had never had now has never had an issue, never had an issue with an upgrade. It's been fantastic. That supports awesome. >> No need for a rocket scientist or a storage admin, >> and you're sleeping better. This is very, very good thing so far this interview. So in terms of the traditional storage model that you're well familiar with, as you said, you know, being very familiar with netapp it a previous role, the whole every three years. Allies like it. We've got to switch things out, disrupting operations here, comes along with the Evergreen model, and we go, How much of that is marketing and how much of that really actually means? And I know you're a big >> you're in my mind. So yeah, I was like, Oh, so I'm pre paying for support or, you know, But you know what? One side. Once I understood what it really waas and the advantages of of it inmate sentence. We didn't. We didn't I didn't think we would upgrade as much as we have already. We've already gone through to storage up, raising two controller upgrades. So that's really where where it really makes sense is when you're doing storage controller upgrade. So if you want to start our small, which we do is start a little bit small in the beginning. And then then our business grew like crazy and our storage needs expanded. So we went through at least two upgrades for years. >> So you you bring in a rare you paying basically perpetual license up front boom. And then and then you're doing the evergreen model. And then now you're on a subscription in perpetuity, is that correct? Okay, so you you essentially go from cap Ex Op X over the life cycle, and then when you add capacity, you're paying for that capacity, and then >> you just like you return the equipment, you get your money back, and then, uh, you get new equipment >> is truly non disruptive. >> We've been through to upgrades and to control operates with your major upgrades and, um, both of them we did at 5 p.m. Just not that the firm close. If I were anything but, you know, just to feel comfortable. I don't know how you do it at five, and it's okay because you know, if anything goes down from five and if no one's working right, so But here, obviously, we're always attorneys are always on and know they're really smooth. No problems. Every I mean, they got a great strategy and method to the upgrades way stayed up the entire time. >> I mean, it is a big issue for practitioners. We we've done some quantification over the years, and it was like the minimum to migrate. Honore was $50,000. When you add it all in people's time, the cost of the array, the complexity and you're saying first of all, sound reasonable, right kind of number, right? I mean, that's probably gonna make room for the conservative right. Is that essentially been eliminated? I mean, it gives you some planning, I guess are >> pretty much. And as far as the planning goes, you know, these these guys take care of all that. So when we're ready to make the switch, they just log in and do their thing, and then it's done, >> and in terms of training for yourself or your team. When you've done these two upgrades that what's that process been like? >> Log in and figure it out. I mean, >> it sounds pretty simple. >> There's not much to it. Yeah. >> So what's on the C I ose mind these days? Obviously, you don't stay awake at night now thinking about story. >> I stay awake for security, for >> talk about that data >> breach security seems like every every week. Now it it seems I'm on my Twitter feed and this is there's a new breech home. It just it's It's almost got to the point where, you know, it's just another thing that happens. >> So what's your challenge there? Is it managing all these tools? Is it knowing what to respond to it? Is it the skill sets all of the above? My >> biggest thing is, I believe in lots of redundancy. So, um, so one. Starting with the pure we have, we have a second array in another data center outside the state, so we replicate the to raise between each other. That's that's what we started with that side. We also running, you know, regular backups. We run rubric for that. And we also now have just oh, establishing cloud strategy for backups. Immutable. Um, long, long retention. So we also send our backup to the cloud as well. So now I'm feeling like I can sleep. Probably can sleep late now. I just gotta wait for somebody for something to happen, I guess, and makes sure, and hopefully your strategy is pretty solid here. >> Okay, so D r and backup are part of that overall data protection and security strategy that extends obviously into the perimeter device, etcetera, etcetera. So you have a SEC ops team. How do you weigh? >> Don't have a dedicated no. See. So, >> Well, you're the C cell. >> I'm exactly exactly so. Sher Sher bulls with a small group of us that are also the security team. And we've got a pretty I think we've got at this point a pretty solid security sack. Always room for improvement. Always looking at the new stuff. What's out there? I mean, there's all kinds of cool tech out there. Sometimes I get a little overboard with the team, gets a little upset with me because, you know, I just want to see I want to do another POC, and they're like we have three running. >> Okay, Like you guys have a pretty solid foundation running on pure that you stone to me, like, kind of appear customer for life. So they should at least give you a T shirt. Um, Adam, >> give me atleast >> a T shirt. >> I'll tell you one what really sold me within the first year was we had a We had a B m that wouldn't wouldn't boot up and we couldn't figure out what was going on. So we thought initially thought was a V m where issue and so we call support and you can really figure out. They said it was a pure issue. We call so decide to call Pure. One night I was 89 o'clock at night and decide to give it a shot, and the guy got on the phone and come to find. Now there was some issue with the data stores of'em where it was crossed, her data stores and one was deleted. Oh, apparently maybe me had deleted a small data store that had nothing on it, but apparently it was linked to the data store. This b m for some unknown reason known. Behold, bmr issue. But the guy on the line actually knew of resource within pure. That was That was a big bm weren't guy and he came in. He actually logged in and help us unlinked to data stores. So totally not appear issue. But, you know, he went the extra mile to help us recover that GM gotta back up the same night. >> You know, we got to go, But I ask you a question. You work. You have a lot of vendors you've experienced. What, Avengers do that really tick you off? That they should stop doing? How's your chance? >> I don't like the term road map. >> Really? >> Any time I hear road map, it means, you know >> we don't have it. You >> don't have >> yet, >> But we're gonna look into that so don't do business with people that have no road. >> Jason, thank you so much for share your candor with David. Me on the key. We appreciate it. Congratulations on all your success. >> Thank you >> for David. Dante. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube at pure accelerate 19. Thanks for watching

>> Narrator: From Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to IBM Think, everybody. My name's Dave Vallante, I'm here with Peter Burris. You're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our day three. We're wrapping up wall to wall coverage of IBM's inaugural Think Conference. Thirty or forty thousand people, too many people to count, I've been joking all week. Sam Werner is here, he's the VP of Offering Management for Software Defined Storage, Sam, good to see you again. And Steve Kenniston is joining him otherwise known as the storage alchemist. Steven, great to see you again. >> Steven: Thanks, Dave. >> Dave: Alright, Sam. Let's get right into it. >> Sam: Alright. >> Dave: What is the state of data protection today and what's IBM's point of view? >> Sam: Well, I think anybody who's been following the conference and saw Jenny's key note, which was fantastic, I think you walked away knowing how important data is in the future, right? The way you get a competitive edge is to unlock insights from data. So if data's so important you got to be able to protect that data, but you're forced to protect all this data. It's very expensive to back up all this data. You have to do it. You got to keep it safe. How can you actually use that back-up data to, you know, perform analytics and gain some insights of that data that's sitting still behind the scenes. So that's what it's really all about. It's about making sure your data's safe, you're not going to lose it, that big big competitive advantage you have and that data, this is the year of the incumbent because the incumbent can start unlocking valuable data, so - >> Dave: So, Steve, we've talked about this many times. We've talked about the state of data protection, the challenges of sort of bolting on data protection as an afterthought. The sort of one size fits all problem, where you're either under protected or spending too much and being over protected, so have we solved that problem? You know, what is next generation data protection? What does it look like? >> [Steve} Yeah, I think that's a great Question, Dave. I think what you end up seeing a lot of... (audio cuts out) We talk at IBM about the modernize and transform, a lot. Right? And what I've started to try to do is boil it down almost at a product level. WhY - or at least an industry level - why modernize your data protection environment, right? Well if you look at a lot of the new technologies that are out there, costs have come way down, right? Performance is way up. And by performance around data protection we talk RPO's and RTO's. Management has become a lot simpler, a lot of design thinking put in the interfaces, making the Op Ec's job a lot easier around protecting information. A lot of the newer technologies are connected to the cloud, right? A lot simpler. And then you also have the ability to do what Sam just mentioned, which is unlock, now unlock that business value, right? How do I take the data that I'm protecting, and we talk a lot about data reuse and how do I use that data for multiple business purposes. And kind of unhinge the IT organization from being the people that stumble in trying to provide that data out there to the line of business but actually automate that a little bit more with some of the new solutions. So, that's what it means to me for a next generation protection environment. >> Dave: So it used to be this sort of, okay, I got an application, I got to install it on a server - we were talking about this earlier - get a database, put some middleware on - uh! Oh, yeah! I got to back it up. And then you had sort of these silos emerge. Virtualization came in, that obviously change the whole back up paradigm. Now you've got the cloud. What do you guys, what's your point of view on Cloud, everybody's going after this multi-cloud thing, protecting SAS data on prem, hybrid, off-prem, what are you guys doing there? >> Sam: So, uh, and I believe you spoke to Ed Walsh earlier this we very much believe in the multi-cloud strategy. We are very excited on Monday to go live with a Spectrum Protect Plus on IBM's cloud, so it's now available to back up workloads on IBM Cloud. And what's even more exciting about it is if you're running Spectrum Protect Plus on premises, you can actually replicate that data to the version running in the IBM cloud. So now you have the ability not only to back up your data to IBM cloud, back up your data IN IBM cloud where you're running applications there, but also be able to migrate work loads back and forth using this capability. And our plan is to continue to expand that to other clouds following our multi-cloud strategy. >> Dave: What's the plus? >> Sam: Laughs >> Dave: Why the plus? >> Kevin: That's the magic thing, they can't tell you. >> Group: (laughing) >> Dave: It's like AI, it's a black box. >> Sam: Well, I will answer that question seriously, though. IBM's been a leader in data protection for many years. We've been in the Gardeners Leaders Quadrant for 11 years straight with Spectrum Protect, and Spectrum Protect Plus is and extension of that, bringing this new modern approach to back up so it extends the value of our core capability, which you know, enterprises all over the world are using today to keep their data safe. So it's what we do so well, plus more! (laughing) >> Dave: Plus more! - [Sam] Plus more. >> Dave: So, Steve, I wonder if you could talk about the heat in the data protection space, we were at VM World last year, I mean, it was, that was all the buzz. I mean, it was probably the most trafficked booth area, you see tons of VC money that have poured in several years ago that's starting to take shape. It seems like some of these upstarts are taking share, growing, you know, a lot of money in, big valuations, um, what are your thoughts on What's that trend? What's happening there? How do you guys compete with these upstarts? >> Steve: Yeah, so I think that is another really good question. So I think even Ed talks a little bit about a third of the technology money in 2017 went to data protection, so there's a lot of money being poured in. There's a lot of interest, a lot of renewed interest in it. I think what you're seeing, because it cut - it's now from that next generation topic we just talked about, it's now evolving. And that evolution is it's not, it's no longer just about back up. It's about data reuse, data access, and the ability to extract value from that data. Now all of a sudden, if you're doing data protection right, you're backing up a hundred percent of your data. So somewhere in the repository, all my data is sitting. Now, what are the tools I can use to extract the value of that data. So there used to be a lot of different point products, and now what folks are saying is, well now, look, I'm already backing it up and putting it in this data silo, so to speak. How do I get the value out of it? And so, what we've done with Plus, and why we've kind of leap frogged ourselves here with - from going from Protect to Protect Plus, is to be able to now take that repository - what we're seeing from customers is there's a definitely a need for back up, but now we're seeing customers lead with this operational recovery. I want operational recovery and I want data access. So now, what Spectrum Protect Plus does is provides that access. We can do automation, we can provide self service, it's all rest API driven, and then what we still do is we can off load that data to Spectrum Protect, our great product, and then what ends up happening is the long term retention capabilities about corporate compliance or corporate governance, I have that, I'm protecting my business, I feel safe, but now I'm actually getting a lot more value out of that silo of data now. >> Peter: Well, one of the challenges, especially as we start moving into an AI analytics world, is that it's becoming increasingly clear that backing up the data, a hundred percent of the data, may not be capturing all of the value because we're increasingly creating new models, new relationships amongst data that aren't necessarily defined by an application. They're transient, then temporal, they're, they come up they come down, how does a protection plane handle, not only, you know, the data that's known, from sources that are known, but also identifying patterns of how data relationships are being created, staging it to the appropriate place, it seems as though this is going to become an increasingly important feature of any protection scheme? >> Steve: I think, I think a lot - you bring up a good topic here - I think a lot of the new protection solutions that are all rest API driven now have the capability to actually reach out to these other API's, and of course we have our whole Watson platform, our analytics platform that can now analyze that information, but the core part, and the reason why I think - back to your previous question about this investment in some of these newer technologies, the legacy technologies didn't have the metadata plane, for example, the catalog. Of course you had a back up catalog , but did you have an intelligent back up catalog. With the Spectrum Protect Plus catalog, we now have all of this metadata information about the data that you're backing up. Now if I create a snapshot, or reuse situation where to your point being, I want to spin something back up, that catalog keeps track of it now. We have full knowledge of what's going. You might not have chosen to again back that new snap up, but we know it's out there. Now we can understand how people are using the data, what are they using the data for, what is the longevity of how we need to keep that data? Now all of a sudden there's a lot more intelligence in the back up and again to your earlier question, I think that's why there's this renewed interest in kind of the evolution. >> Dave: Well, they say at this point you really can't do that multi-cloud without that capability. I wanted to ask you about something else, because you basically put forth this scenario or premise that it's not just about back up, it's not just about insurance, my words, there's other value that you could extract. Um, I want to bring up ransomware. Everybody talks about air gaps - David Foyer brings that up a lot and then I watch, like certain shows like, I don't know if you saw the Zero Days documentary where they said, you know, we laugh at air gaps, like, oh! Really? Yeah, we get through air gaps, no problem. You know, I'm sure they put physical humans in and they're going to infect. So, so there's - the point I'm getting to is there's other ways to protect against ransomware, and part of that is analytics around the data and all the data's - in theory anyway - in the backup store. So, what's going on with ransomware, how are you guys approaching that problem, where do analytics fit? You know, a big chewy question, but, have at it. >> Sam: Yeah, no I'm actually very glad you asked that question. We just actually released a new version of our core Spectrum Protect product and we actually introduced ransomware detection. So if you think about it, we bring in all of your data constantly, we do change block updates, so every time you change files it updates our database, and we can actually detect things that have changed in the pattern. So for example, if you're D-Dup rate starts going down, we can't D-Dup data that's encrypted. So if all of a sudden the rate of D-Duplication starts going down that would indicate the data's starting to be encrypted, and we'll actually alert the user that something's happening. Another example would be, all the sudden a significant amount of changes start happening to a data set, much higher than the normal rate of change, we will alert a user. It doesn't have to be ransomware, it could be ransomware. It could be some other kind of malicious activity, it could be an employee doing something they shouldn't be - accessing data that's not supposed to be accessed. So we'll alert the users. So this kind of intelligence, uh, you know is what we'll continue to try to build in. IBM's the leader in analytics, and we're bringing those skills and applying it to all of our different software. >> Dave: Oh, okay. You're inspecting that corpus of backup data, looking for anomalus behavior, you're say you're bringing in IBM analytics and also presumably some security capabilities from IBM, is that right? >> Sam: That's right. Absolutely. We work very closely with our security team to ensure that all the solutions we provide tie in very well with the rest of our capabilities at IBM. One other thing though, I'll mention is our cloud object storage, getting a little bit away from our backup software for a second, but object storage is used often - >> Kevin: But it's exciting! >> Sam: It is exciting! It's one of my favorite parts of the portfolio. It's a place where a lot of people are storing backup and archive data and we recently introduced worm capability, which mean Write Once Read Many. So once it's been written it can't be changed. It's usually used for compliance purposes but it's also being used as an air gap capability. If the data can't be changed, then essentially it can't be you know encrypted or attacked by ransomware. And we have certification on this as well, so we're SEC compliant, we can be used in regulated industries, so as we're able to in our data protection software off load data into a object store, which we have the capability, you can actually give it this worm protection, so that you know your backup data is always safe and can always be recovered. We can still do this live detection, and we can also ensure your backup is safe. >> Dave: That's great. I'm glad to hear that, cause I feel like in the old days, that I asked you that question about ransomware, and well, we're working on that - and two years later you've come up with a solution. What's the vibe inside of IBM in the storage group? I mean it seems like there's this renewed energy, obviously growth helps, it's like winning, you know, brings in the fans, but, what's your take Steve? And I'll close with Sam. >> Steve: I would almost want to ask you the same question. You've been interviewing a lot of the folks from the storage division that have come up here today and talked to you. I mean you must hear the enthusiasm and the excitement. Right? >> Dave: Yeah, definitely. People are pumped up. >> Steve: And I've rejoined IBM, Sam has rejoined IBM, right? And I think what we're finding inside is there used to be a lot of this, eh yeah, we'll eventually get there. In other words, it's like you said, next year, next year. Next, next quarter. Next third quarter, right? And now its, how do we get it done? People are excited, they want to, they see all the changes going on, we've done a lot to - I don't want to say sort out the portfolio, I think the portfolio's always been good - but now there's like a clean crisp clear story around the portfolio, how they fit together, why they're supposed to - and people are rallying behind that. And we're seeing customer - we're voted by IDCE, number one in the storage software business this year. I think people are really getting behind, you want to work for a winning team, and we're winning and people are getting excited about it. >> Dave: Yeah, I think there's a sense of urgency, a little startup mojo, it's back. So, love that, but Sam I'll give you the last word, before we wrap. Just on Think? Just on the Market? >> Sam: I got to tell you, Think has been crazy. It's been a lot of fun so far. I got to tell you, I have never seen so much excitement around our storage portfolio from customers. These were the easiest customer discussions I've ever had at one of these conferences, so they're really excited about what they're doing and they're excited about the direction we're moving in. So, yeah. >> Dave: Guy, awesome seeing you. Thanks for coming back on The Cube, both of you, and, uh, really a pleasure. Alright. Thank you for watching. Uh, this is a wrap from IBM Think 2018. Guys, thanks for helping us close that up. Peter, thank you for helping - >> Peter: Absolutely. >> Dave: me co-host this week. John Furie was unbelievable with the pop up cube, really phenomenal job, John and the crew. Guys, great great job. Really appreciate you guys coming in from wherever you were Puerto Rico or the Bahamas, I can't keep track of you anymore. Go to siliconangle.com, check out all the news. TheCube.net is where all these videos will be and wikibon.com for all the research, which Peter's group has been doing great work there. We're out! We'll see you next time. (lively tech music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Barcelona, Spain. it's The Cube covering Cisco Live 2018. Brought to you by Cisco, Veeam, and The Cube's Ecosystem Partner. (upbeat music) (people chatting in background) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. This is The Cube exclusive coverage live in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder and co-host of The Cube here all week, two days of live wall-to-wall coverage in the DevNet Zone where all the action's at. It's the biggest story at Cisco Live is the impact of the DevNet and the developer network that's been growing leaps and bounds. Of course, we covered DevNet Create earlier last year, which is a Cloud Native event. Kind of bring in two communities together from Cisco and of course, we can't talk about developers without talking about experiences that developers need and want and expect and also, you know, how to operate in those environments. We have two great guests. Mandy Whaley's been on before, The Cube Alumni Director of Developer Experiences at Cisco, and Tom Davies, who's the Senior Manager of the DevNet Sandbox. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you again. >> Excited to be here. Yeah, good to see you, too. >> So congratulations. >> DevNet is again booming. It's the hot part of the show. It's one of the top stories here in Barcelona. >> Yes. >> It's been great. Our workshops, where we're doing the hands-on coding, have been extremely full even early in the morning and late into the evening, and it's great to see people really diving in, laptops open, getting their hands on, and doing some coding. >> That's great stuff, congratulations. And, you know, the Sandbox is interesting because now you guys are completely open. Love the motto: learn, code, inspire, and connect. That's the motto here. You got to have a place for people to do this. >> You do. >> What is this Sandbox thing that you guys are rollin' out? It's pretty interesting. >> Yeah, so the Sandbox is completely open to everyone, and the idea behind it is if you like, if you can go to developer.cisco.com/sandbox, you can hit our catalog and start playing with our technology within minutes by just clicking on the technology you want to cover. We'll spin you up that environment, and you can start playing it as a developer really quite quickly. >> Alright, take me through a progression example, because let's just say I hit that website, developer.cisco.com/sandbox, >> Yeah. what do I do? I mean, what are people doing? Is it like, you know, Hello World or what are they coding? What are they learning? I mean, what's goin' on there? >> It just depends on the technology that they choose. So we go to developer.cisco.com/sandbox, hit Catalog, it comes out with a bunch of titles, and in that catalog, you can choose Networking, you could choose Security, you could choose Data Center, Cloud, Open Source, any different technology that that developer might be interested in or want to integrate into, and then from there they click on that title and say, "Right, I want to reserve say APIC-EM. "I'm interested in Networking and control of Networking." From there, we spin that environment up for them, completely secure, send them the details of how it's connect, they connect to it, and then they are free to start coding within minutes on, say, a APIC-EM controller solution, figure out what the latest release provides them, >> Yeah. how they integrate into it, and how they can start innovatin' in a really easy way over the top. >> So they can, it's a playground. They can do mash-ups. >> It's a playground, yeah. >> It is. >> I can sling API's around, test stuff, break stuff. >> If they're breaking somethin', they're probably doin' something right so we encourage it. >> Yeah (laughs) >> Yeah. >> It's brilliant. >> Yeah. >> The other thing that's really cool about the Sandbox is that Tom takes a lot of time and care to make sure we put together fully, you know, environments where you can actually build things with the Cisco gear plus open source projects that are relevant to those pieces of the Cisco technology portfolio, so it's not just the environment. It's sample code, it's open source you can use, it's traffic generations, it's really a full working environment. >> Yeah, that brings up a good point I wanted to ask you, as we had some other guests on. We couldn't get to it. You're startin' to see with Kubernetes and well, first docker containers and now all containers. Really interesting. I mean, Red Hat just bought CoreOS yesterday. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's big news. >> They did, they did. >> Big news, yeah. >> In Europe, you miss all the action. The State of the Union. (Tom laughs). >> I know. >> It was a big story on the New York Times on Sunday. I'm like, "Ah, I'm missin' all the late news." But that's a signal. Containers are commoditized. You're seeing that be the now abstraction layer for moving work loads around and program around it. >> We do. >> Kubernetes gives an orchestration opportunity that now allows you to bring this service mesh concept to the table. >> It does. >> This is becoming a really interesting developer dream, because now I could provision >> Yes. microservices and start doing network services with those microservice at the app layer. >> Yeah. >> This to me is a really, really big trend. I know you guys have kind of quietly put it out there, a term called "Net DevOps," >> Yes. which I think will be a very big thing. >> Yep. (Mandy laughs) >> Because it's DevOps the whole stack. >> It is. >> That's right, yeah. >> But really usin' the network more, so for the people who are power users of network services, this could become a very big DevOps movement. >> Yes, yes. >> Can you explain this concept of the Net DevOps, and does that relate to like SDO and some of the service mesh stuff out there? What's your-- >> Yeah, do you want to start with service mesh and then I'll dive into the lower parts or, yeah? >> We can do that. >> Go for it. >> Jump right in. >> Yeah. >> Share the information. >> Yeah, sure. >> The term service mesh is actually fairly new, and it's common because as people use microservices more, their understandin' that they just perforate like crazy, and it's actually really quite hard to understand which microservices talk to which microservices, are they doin' it securely? Are they within policy? Are they talkin' to the right thing? And that's where SDO comes in. It's really providin' a proxy for that traffic so you can easily talk between microservice A and microservice B, understand it, see observability between that traffic, and then control that traffic, and SDO is takin' really the abstraction away, takin' the pain away from that huge service. >> Just talk about the quantify that time savings, because this is like, I think this really kind of was the minds get blown. That example you just laid out, without that, what would you have to do? I have to build a proxy, I have to test it. >> You do. >> I mean, just take me through it. >> Yeah. The comparisons A to B. >> Well, normally when you have >> Real quick. a microservice, you probably have about 15 other services around them all. Like if you had a ton of microservices, you probably have 15 different subserving services around it. With SDO, it takes 15 away so you don't have to manage or operate all those, and it brings you down to one, and that's really super key, 'cause it makes it so much easier to deal with microservices >> Yeah. then to bail them out. >> And then I boil it down, and then I tell people when Amazon launched Lambda, which essentially the serverless trend, 'cause they're always >> Yeah. just services. Never really serverless. (Mandy laughs) I know the Cisco people debate this all the time, and now there's, it's true. This server's behind it. >> Of course. They just take this abstraction away. They're really enabling this notion of a mindset for the developer where this gets into the user experience, user expectation. >> Right. >> Yes. >> If I want infrastructure as a code and I don't want to dive into the network services, I want the one not the 15 to deal with. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I'm essentially programming the infrastructure at that point, so this is a big, effin' deal. >> This is a big deal, >> It is. and then even what we're seeing is that the expectations are set by DevOps practices, and now that our network devices are opening up APIs, and we have the really strong assurance and analytics pieces that we saw in the Cisco keynotes, we can extend those DevOps concepts to managing network devices. So something very traditional, networking task, like out of VLAN. Let's say you want to do that, but you want to do that in a network as code manner. So you want to take that through a build pipeline, something that would be familiar to a developer or somebody who manages their infrastructure in a DevOps way, but now you can do it for a networking device. And you can take it through build and test just like you would code, and all of your network configurations are source controlled so you have your version control around it, and that's a big mind shift for the network developers. But in DevNet, we have the application developers, the ops engineers, and the net workers, and then what we're tryin' to do is share those practices across because that's the only way we'll get to the scale, the consistency, the level of automation that we need. >> Alright, so here's a question for you guys. Put you on the spot. DevOps has been great. It's going mainstream. Some are called CloudOps, whatever, but DevOps is great, great movement. >> Yes. >> That's been goin' on for a while, you know. Hey. >> Yeah. You know, pat each other on the back. (Mandy laughs) But DevOps means automation. >> Yes, yes. >> Right? >> And the old rule is you got to do it twice automated. This scares people. So what is being automated away in the Net DevOps model? >> So I wouldn't know that it's being automated away, but the idea is that is if we're managing infrastructure, traditionally you would do it in a sequential and manual way, right? But we need to do it in a parallel and automated way. So moving towards that automation helps us do that. I think we see some network engineers who think, "I have to learn a lot of new skills to do this." >> Mm-hmm. >> And that is true, but you don't have to be the level of an application developer who's writing applications to do some automation and scripting, and DevNet's really working to put the tools out there to lead them down that path and get them moving in that direction. It's also a little bit more, I mean, DevOps is definitely the automation in the tools. There's also the culture of bringing Dev and Ops together. So the same thing happens there as well. >> Totally agree, and also the process as well, repeatability in what we're doin'. So once you've done one >> Yes. and that process works for you, you can repeat that process for the next set of configuration you're deploying. >> Yeah, definitely. >> What's interesting. >> Super slick. >> Rowan showed on stage the future titles of what it'll be like in 2030 or 2050. I forget which year it was. >> Yes, yes. I joked, it says the LinkedIn on that. Might not even be around, might be around then, either. (Mandy laughs) This is a new field, right? >> Yes. >> And successful companies, the ethos was hire the smartest person because the jobs that are coming haven't been invented yet, so there's no right experience there. So this kind of reminds me of what's going on with DevOps where, you know, Network guys, they're not dumb. I mean, they're smart, right? >> Super smart. >> You know? >> Yeah. >> And it used to be that you were the rock star if you ran the network. >> That's right, that's right. >> Okay, now the rock stars are more the app developers and the developers on the Dev Op side. So these would be easy, and we're seeing that it's easy for those guys to jump in to some of these coding and/or agile mindsets. >> Yes. >> 'Cause they are gunslingers, they are rock stars. >> They are, it's incredible how fast they're picking it up. I mean, they are, just from the ones that we met from last year to this year who were here came to like their first coding class. This year they're here, and they're like, "Oh yeah, I totally get this build pipeline. "I'm doing this in my organization." We're seeing 'em pick it up incredibly fast. >> And so they obviously see a path to other jobs. What patterns are you guys seeing in terms of things that they're doing on the Sandbox and/or some of the user expectations that they have as they're now fresh, young, or/and middle age >> Yeah. or old students >> Right? in the new world. What are some of the patterns? >> Yeah. >> What are they kickin' tires on? What's the, what are they gravitating towards? >> Everythin', but they yeah, literally everythin', but they're always like quite interested in containers and what's happenin' in the container world and how that applies >> Yes. to networkin', especially because as we touched on it earlier, there's a lot of networkin' to be had in the container world, and it's not just one layer of (mumbles) of the service mesh. There's also virtualization layers, there's like abstracted policy layers. There's a good few layers of networkin' that you need to know and really understand to be able to get into, so that's one real trend that the network guys >> Yes. really are jumpin' on, and so they should, because they're great at it. >> Yeah, I would add to that. Like I've been seeing, you know, in different conversations I have with people who are coming from the appDev side or the Op side and saying, "Wow, I'm really good at containers. "I can build apps and containers all day." And then they get into it, and they're like, "The networking part of containers is hard. "There's a lot to learn." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I definitely see a lot of activity around both sides coming together around, "How do we really make that work?" >> And the bottom line is is that this whole "Your job's going away" is ridiculous because this really proves that there is so much job security in DevOps it's ridiculous. >> There's more devices per engineer to be managed then ever before, so it's really just you have to have the automation to even keep up, right? >> Yeah, it's quite funny, actually, because I come from a very much a software centered background, and networkin' to me was black magic. You had to know so much stuff in the networking order, it used to scare the hell out of me, but I had to go down into the network layer to start understandin' it to do a better job of software >> Well, you was locked down. and I'm seein' the reverse. >> I mean, you had perimeter-base security, (Tom laughs) and you had very inflexible configuration management things. You were just >> Yeah. really locked down. >> That's right. Now agile and dyanmic >> And then we're seein'. adaptive, and these are the words that are described. And now add IoT to the mix. You guys had the Black Hat, you know, IoT booth here, >> Yes. which is phenomenal. >> Yes. It's only going to increase the edge of the network, which is not new to Cisco. >> Definitely. Cisco knows the edge. >> That's right. So it's going to be interesting to see that going forward. >> Yeah. >> Definitely. >> And that's one of our sandboxes. We have a sandbox where developers can practice taking docker containers and deploying them into Edge Compute in our routers, and that's one that's really popular and gets a lot of-- >> It's incredibly popular. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Mandy and Tom, thanks for comin' on The Cube. Really appreciate, great to see you again. >> Yeah, thank you so much. >> Congratulations on all your success. Go kick on the tires of the Sandbox. >> It's all down to Mandy. >> Yeah. >> You guys did a great job. >> DevNet developer network for Cisco here, and of course DevNet created in separate small, boutique-event small, for the Cloud Native World. You want to check that out. Well, the Cube will be there this year. This is The Cube live coverage. I'm John Furrier, stay tuned for more of day 2, exclusive Cisco Live 2018 in Europe. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

hi from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cube covering IBM world of Watson 2016 brought to you by IBM now here are your hosts John Fourier as Dave Volante hey welcome back everyone we are here live at the Mandalay Bay at the IBM world of Watson this is Silicon angles cube our flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise I'm John Fourier with my co-host Dave allanté for the two days of wall-to-wall coverage our next guest is michelle fools so who's the chief marketing officer for IBM knew the company fairly new within the past year yes welcome to the queue last month I think you check all these new hires a lot of new blood coming inside me but this is a theme we heard from Staples to be agile to be fast you're new what's what's your impressions and what's your mandate for the branding the IBM strong brand but yes what's the future look well look I'm I'm thrilled to be here and I'm thrilled to be here because this is an extraordinary company that makes real difference in the world right and that I think you feel it here at the world of Watson in the sort of everyday ways that Watson and IBM touches consumers such as end-users makes their health better you know allows them to have greater experiences so so that's incredible to be part of my kind of company having said that and exactly to your point it's a time of acceleration and change for everyone in IBM is not immune to that and so my mandate here in my remit here and coming in and being a huge fan of what IBM has to say well how do we sharpen our messaging how do we always feel like a challenger brand you know how do we think about what Watson can do for people what the cloud can do what our services business can do and how is that distinctive and differentiated from everybody else out there and I think we have an incredible amount of assets to play with that's got to be through the line you know it's no longer the case that we can have a message on TV and that you know attracts the world the digital experiences are having every single day when they're clicking through on an ad when they're chatting with somebody when their car call center when they have a sales interaction is that differentiated message that brand resident all the way through second thing is marketing's become much more of a science you know and that to me is super exciting I've been a CEO most of my career and you know that the notion that marketing has to drive revenue that marketing has to drive retention and loyalty and expansion that we can come to the table with much more science in terms of what things are most effective in making sure that more clients love us more deeply for longer I'm gonna ask you the question because we had we've had many conversations with Kevin he was just here he was on last year Bob Lord the new chief digital officer we talked to your customers kind of the proof points in today's market is about transparency and if you're not a digital company how could you expect customers to to work with them so this has been a big theme for IBM you guys are hyper focused on being a digital company yes yes and how does it affect the brand a brand contract with the users what's your thoughts on that well first of all Bob Lord is awesome we've known each other for 10 years so it's so wonderful to be working with him again and Dave Kenny as well I think that the at the end of the day consumers have experiences and and you know think of every business you know out there as a consumer and they're having experiences all the time their expectations are being shaped by the fact that they go on Amazon and get prime delivery right their expectations are being shaped by they can go on Netflix and get you know personalized recommendations for them or Spotify and so our job of course and we have some of the greatest technical minds in the world it's to make sure that every experience lines up with the highest of their expectations and so much of that is digital and so my passion my background is entirely in the digital space I have a CEO of Travelocity and then CEO of gilt chief marketing a digital officer at Citigroup so the notion that you know the world's greatest digital experiences is something I'm very passionate about you mentioned Zelda so big TV ads and you think of the smarter planet which was so effective but it was a big TV campaign so you do what's the what's the sort of strategy that you're envisioning is in sort of digital breadcrumbs maybe you could talk about deadly yeah well think about Watson it's a perfect place to think about the Watson branding what does Watson really mean right Watson is and Ginni has said this so well of course it's cognitive and but at the end of the day it's about helping people make better decisions and so you can do some advertising with Watson and Bob Dylan and Watson and you know the young young girl with Serena and and you can get that messaging high but then you've got to bring it all the way through so that's why it's something like this is so powerful to see Woodside up their alley or all these companies talking about staples how they are using Watson embedded in their processes their tools to make their end-users experiences better and how nobody else could do this for them the way Watson's doing it that's taking a brand on high and advertising message on high and delivering value for businesses for patients for consumers all the way through that's what we have to do I got to ask you about that ad advertising trends I so we all see ad blocker in the news digital is a completely different new infrastructure expanded dynamic with social what not you can talk about Bob and I were talking last night about it too you Trevor you know banner ads are all out there impression base and then coded URLs to a landing page email marketing not gonna go away anytime soon but it's changing rapidly we have now new channels yeah what's your thoughts because this is now a new kind of ROI equation is there any thoughts on how you look at that and is it going to integrate into the top level campaigns how are you looking at the new digital that the cutting-edge digital stuff huge amounts of thoughts on this topic so I think you know if you think back 15 20 years ago there were always something called market mix modelling which helps advertisers and marketers to understand the effectiveness of their TV campaigns and frankly not too dissimilar from Nielsen you know there were so there was art and science at best in it and then all of a sudden the digital world evolved and you could get at a tactical level very very clear about attribution and whether you drove something and the challenge for us now is much more sophisticated models that are multi-touch attribution because the reality is an average consumer doesn't do one thing or have one interaction with a brand they're gonna see a TV show and watch a commercial while they're watching that commercial that business user or that end consumer is on their iPad or on their phone they're seeing a digital ad the next day at work they're being retargeted because they were aughts company they search for something they see a search campaign our job is to connect those dots and understand what really moves that consumer that business user to take an action and there are many sophisticated multi-touch attribution models where you model you know a standard set of behaviors and you test correlations against a bunch of different behaviors so you understand of what I did all the money I spent what really drove impact and by cohort I think that's the other credit there's no more the sense of sort of aggregated everything you really have to break it out yeah I didn't space my cohort to see what moves me and improve that experience right which has been you you get the example in the day of the Hilton retirees you already know that the retard the hotel was full so so obviously Watson plays a role in them Satyam plays a role in that so it's all about data it's all about you know that's where I think Watson can be extraordinarily helpful so if you think about the tool as a marketer has they're becoming more and more sophisticated and retargeting with something out of 10 years ago whenever was introduced that helped all of us a little bit and getting that message but it is only as good as the API is behind it and the the experience behind it when now when I was at gilt I was CEO of gilt we would put over a thousand products on sale every day that would be sold out by the next day sales down this 24-hour flash sale we had to get really really good at knowing how to how to retarget because last thing you want is to retarget something that sold out right or gone the next day and understand the user that was in and out and they're coming back and of course in that cohort that's where Watson to me is very exciting and you probably saw this in some of the demos of where Watson can help marketers you know where Watson can can really understand what are the drivers of behavior and what is likely to drive the highest purpose why were you so successful at guild and and how are the challenges different years because there's a sort of relatively more narrow community or city group to I was called the chief marketing and digital officer at Citigroup and and you know a tremendous budget and a lot of transactions you have to drive every day a lot of people you want to open credit cards and bank accounts so around the world I think that the the relentless focus on on marketing being art and science you know art and science and I think that's you know that passion for analytics passion for measurement having been CEO that passion for being able to say this is what we're doing and this is what we're driving so you've been kind of a data geek in your career you mentioned the financial services you can't to measure everything but back to the ad question you know the old saying used to be wasting half my advertise I just don't know which half yeah and my archives is wasted but now for the first time in the history of business in the modern era you measure everything online that's right so does that change your view and the prism of how you look at the business cuz you mentioned multi-touch yeah so now does that change the accountability for the suppliers I mean at agencies doing the big campaign I think it changes the game for all of us and there's no destination this is every day you can get better at optimizing your budget and and I would be the first to tell you as much of a sort of engineering and data geek because I've always been and deep-fried in the reality is there is art even in those attribution models what look back windows you choose etc that you know you're making decisions as a company but once you make those decisions you can start arraying all of your campaigns and saying what really moved the needle what was the most effective it's not an indictment that say what are we can do differently tomorrow you know the best marketers are always optimizing they're always figuring out at what point in the final can we get better tomorrow well in answer about talent because that's one of the things that we always talk about and also get your thoughts on Women in Technology scheme we were just at Grace Hopper last week and we started to fellowship called the tech truth and we're doing it's real passion area for us we have a site up QP 65 net / women in tech all women interviews we're really trying it the word out but this is now a big issue because now it's not stem anymore it's team arts is in there and we were also talking to the virtual reality augmented reality user experience is now potentially going to come into the immersion students and there's not enough artists yeah so you starting to see a combination of new discipline talents that are needed in the professions as well as the role of women in technology yeah your thoughts on that because this isn't you've been very successful what's your view on that at what's your thoughts about thank you for what you're doing right it takes a lot of people up there saying that this is important to make a difference so most of all thank you you know I think that this this is obviously a place I've been passion about forever I remember being a and being pregnant and that becoming this huge you know issue a news story and you're trying to juggle it right and how could a woman CEO be pregnant so it's so funny how people ridiculous took attention but but I think that the point is that the the advantage as a company has when there are great women in engineering and great women in data science and great women and user experience and design are just palpable they're probable in a variety of ways right when the team thinks differently the team is more creative the team is more open to new ideas the output for the customers are better right I mean they just saw a snapchat today just announced that in 2013 70% of their users were women so all the early adopters were women you know now it's balance but the early the early crowd were women and so we have got to figure out how to break some of the minds now I'm incredibly encouraged though while we still have a long way to go the numbers would suggest that we're having the conversation more and more and women are starting to see other women like them that they want to be it's a global narrative which is good why we're putting some journalists on there and funding it as and just as a fellowship because this it's a global story yeah okay and the power women I mean it's like there are real coders and this real talent coming in and the big theme that came out of that was is that 50% of the consumers of product are women's but therefore they should have some women features and related some vibe in there not just a male software driven concept well and should too when a powerful individual male individual like Satya steps in it and and you know understands what the mistaken and someone like refer to his speech two years ago where he said that you should just bad karma don't speak up and opening up transparency he got some heat yeah but that talk as you probably know but my opinion it's it's it's a positive step when an individual like that it was powerful and opening transparency within their company yeah that's it is that great networking I host a core I've been doing this for a year years with a good friend of mine Susan line from AOL we host a quarterly breakfast for women in tech every every quarter in New York City and we've been doing it for a long time it's amazing when those women come together the conversations we have the discussions we have how to help each other and support each other and so that's that's a real passion we were lost in a few weeks ago for the data science summit which Babu Chiana was hosting in and one of the folks was hosting the data divas breakfast we a couple there were a couple day two dudes who walked in and it was interesting yeah the perspectives 25 percent of the women or the chief data officer were women mm-hmm which was an interesting discussion as well so great 1,000 men at 15 you know as you see that techno but it's certainly changing when I get back to the mentoring thing because one of the things that we're all so passionate about is you've been a pioneer okay so now there's now an onboarding of new talent new personas new professions are being developed because we're seeing a new type of developer we're seeing new types of I would say artists becoming either CG so there's new tech careers that weren't around and a lot of the new jobs that are going to be coming online haven't even been invented yet right so you see cognition and what cognitive is enabling is a new application of skills yep can your thoughts on that because this is an onboarding opportunity so this could change the the number of percentage of women is diverse when you think about what I mean it's clear your notion of steam right your notion of stem that is a male and female phenomena and that is what this country needs it's what this world needs more of and so there's a policy and education obligation and all of us have to the next generation to say let's make sure we're doing right by them in terms of education and job opportunities when you think about onboarding I mean to me that the biggest thing about onboarding is the world is so much more interconnected than it used to be if you're a marketer it's not just art or science you have to do both it's a right brain left brain connectivity and I think 1020 years ago you could grow up in a discipline that was functional and maybe siloed and maybe you were great at left brain or great at right brain and the world demands so much more it's a faster pace it's an accelerated pace and the interconnection is critical and I've one of the things we're doing is we're putting together these diamond teams and I think it's going to really help lead the industry diamond teams are when you have on every small agile marketing team and analytics head a product marketing had a portfolio marketing had a design or a social expert these small pods that work on campaigns gone are the days that you could say designer designs it product comes up with the concept then it goes so it's design team then it goes to a production team then it goes to an analytics team we're forcing this issue by putting these teams together and saying you work together every day you'll get a good sense of where the specialty is and how you learn how to make your own discipline better because you've got the analytics person asked a question about media buying and media planning advertising as we're seeing this new real-time wet web yeah world mobile world go out the old days of planned media buyers placed the advertisement was a pacing item for execution yep now things you mentioned in the guild flash sales so now you're seeing new everyday flash opportunities to glob on to an opportunity to be engagement yeah and create a campaign on the fly yes and a vision of you guys I mean do you see that and does it change the cadence of how you guys do your execution of course of course that's one of the reasons we're moving to this diamond team and agile I think agile will ultimately be as impactful to marketing as it was to engineering and development and so I think the of course and that has to start with great modeling and great attribution because you have to know where things are performing so that you can iterate all the time I mean I believe in a world where you don't have marketing budgets and I know that sounds insane but I believe in a world where you set target and ranges on what you think you're gonna spend at the beginning of the year and every week like an accordion you're optimizing spend shipping code you've been marketing you should be doing like code so much of marketing is its episodic you boom and then it dies in a moment it's gone to the next one and you're talking about something that's I love that you know the personas to your point are much more fluid as well you got Millennials just creating their own vocations yes well this is where I think consumer companies have led the path and you know if you think about a lot of b2b companies we've had this aggregated CIO type buyer and now we've got to get much more sophisticated about what does the developer want you know what's important to the developer the messaging the tools the capabilities the user experience what about the marketer you know what the person in financial services and so both industry and professional discipline and you know schooling now with Watson you don't have to guess what they want you can actually just ask them yeah well you can actually the huge advantage you got you observe the observation space is now addressable right so you pull that in and say and that's super important even the stereotype of the persona is changing you've been saying all week that the developer is increasingly becoming business oriented maybe they don't they want they don't want to go back and get their MBA but they want to learn about capex versus op X and that's relevant to them and they to be a revolutionary you have to understand the impact right and and and they want to ship code they want to change the world I mean that is every engineering team I've ever worked at the time only worked with I mean I've been as close to engineering as from day one of the internet or early on in the internet great engineers are revolutionaries they want to change the world and they change the world they want to have a broader and broader understanding of what levers are at their disposal and I will say that I you know and I am one of the reasons I came to yam is I am passionate about this point technology cannot be in the hands of a few companies on the west coast who are trying to control and dominate the experience technology has to exist for all those amazing developers everywhere in the world who will make a difference to end user this is IBM strategy you actually have a big presence on the west coast also in Germany so you guys are going to where the action centers ours but not trying to just be so Malory point is what exactly because my point is IBM has always been there for making businesses stronger and better we don't monetize their data that's not our thing our thing is to use our cloud our cognitive capabilities and Watson to make actual businesses better so that ultimately consumers have better health care and better results I know you're new on the job silence this is not a trick question just kind of a more conversational as you talk to Bob lower Bob Chiana Jeanne yeah what's the promise of the brand and you used to be back in the days when you know Bob piano we talk about when we I worked at IBM in the 80s co-op student and it was you'll never get fired for buying IBM mainframe the kind of concept but it's evolved and I'll see we see a smarter plan what's the brand promise now you guys talk about what's the brainstorm on its head I think that I think the greatest innovators the world the most passionate business leaders of tomorrow come to IBM to make the world better and I I believe this is a brand for the forward the forward lookers the risk takers the you know the makers I think that you come to IBM because there's extraordinary assets and industry knowledge real humans real relationships that we exist to make your business better not our business will be a vibrato be exist to make your business better that has always been where IBM has been strong you know it's interesting that brings up a good point and just riffing on that Dave and I were just observing you know at the Grace Hopper with our tech truth mentorship which is promoting the intersection of Technology and social justice you're seeing that mission of Technology business value and social justice as an integral part of strategies because now the consumer access the consumerization of business yeah software based is now part of that feedback you're not doing good Millennials demand it I mean Millennials now when you look at the research in the next generation high Millennials are very very you know they want to know what are you doing for the world I mean who could do a 60 minute show besides IBM who could have who could be on 60 minutes changing cancer changing cancer outcomes for people beside IBM that that is an extraordinary testament to what the brand is and how it comes to life every day and that's important for Millennials we had Mary click-clack Clinton yesterday she is so impressive we're talking about how though these ozone layer is getting smaller these are us problems it can be solved they have to be so climate change can be solved so the whole getting the data and she's weather compass oh she's got a visit view on that is interesting her point is if we know what the problems are we as a community global society could actually solve them completely and it's an you know the more we make this a political and we say here is a problem and we have the data and we have the tools we have the people and capabilities to solve it that is where IBM Stan's tallest well I think with Watson use its focused on some big hairy problems to start with and now you're knocking off some some of the you know maybe more mundane but obviously significant to a marketer incredible that a company can start with the hardest most complicated problems the world has and actually make a difference my final question when I asked Mary this yesterday and she kind of talked about if she could have the magic Watson algorithm to just do something magical her and what would it be and she said I'll send Watson to the archives of all the weather data going back to World War two just compile it all and bring it back or addressability so the question is if you could have a Magic Watson algorithm for your chief marketing officer job what would you assign it to do like what would it be it's like first task well first of all reaction of course I'm a mom of six year olds an eight year old and so I want Watson to optimize my time no but a chief marketing officer I mean I think it really does go back to getting Watson's help in understanding how we use a dollar better how we use a dollar smarter how we affect more customers and and and connect connects with more customers in the way we you know we communicate the way we engage the way we've put our programs out that would be extraordinary and that's possible that's becoming more and more possible you know bringing science into the art of marketing I think will have great impact on what we're doing in also just the world I mean nobody wants to have you know maybe targeted ten times for something that's sold out well we asked one more time here so I got some more couple of questions because it's not getting the hook yet I gotta ask you see you mentioned Travelocity you know the web you've been through the web 1.2.0 yeah yeah so on so URLs and managing URLs was a great tracking mechanism from the old impressions weren't working and go to call to action get that look right there but now we different where that world is kind of like become critical infrastructure for managing technology since you're kind of geeking out with us here what's your view of the API economy because now apps don't use URLs they use tokens they use api's they use new push notification based stuff what sure how does api's change the marketing opportunities both right it's clearly changes the engineering environment and sort of opens up the world of possibilities in terms of who you partner with and how etc and I think it changes the marketing world too and entirely right you think about the API economy and the access you have to new ways of doing business new potential partnerships new ways of understanding data you know that that is absolutely you know at the fore of a lot of our thinking it might change the agency relationships to if they got to be more technical in changing as much as fast as companies are and they have to you know they are an extension they're your best you should be able to look in a room of agency and your team and not know who is who when you can tell who is who you have a problem and so agencies themselves have to become you know way more scientific harder-hitting faster pace and outcomes orient and somebody sees now are saying you know what pay me on outcomes I love that I love that mode to say we're in the boat with you pay me on outcome and the big s eyes are right there - absolutely yes Michele Palooza new chief marketing officer at IBM changing the game bring in some great mojo to IBM they're lucky to have you great conversations and thanks for coming on the cube live at Mandalay Bay this is silicon angles the cube I'm John four with Dave Volante be right back with more after this short break