>>Okay, welcome back everyone. To the cubes coverage of AWS summit, 2022 in San Francisco, California. We're here, live on the floor at the Mosconi south events are back. I'm John fur, your host. Remember AWS summit 2022 in New York city is coming this summer. We'll be there with the live cube there as well. Look for us there, but of course, we're back in action with the cloud and AWS. Our next guest Garrett Miller is the general manager of navigation at Mapbox. I mean, it's been a Amazon customer for a long time, Garrett. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Yeah. Thanks for having us, John. >>So you guys are in the middle of, I love the whole location base slash we developer integration. We've had many conversations on the cube around how engineers and developers are becoming embedded into the application, whether it's from a security standpoint, biometrics, all kinds of stuff, being built into the app and, and location navigation. That's right. Is huge from cars. Everyone knows their car, car map. That's right. GPS satellites, some space it's complicated. It sounds like it sounds easy, but I know it's hard. Yeah. You, you get the keynote going on today. Give us a quick update on Mapbox and we'll then we'll talk about the keynote. >>Yeah. You bet John that's right. So as you were saying, you know, it really is. It's all about location intelligence. And how does that get embedded into the applications? And to the point you made vehicles that are out there on the roads to today. So we target developers. Those are our key customers, and we've got over three and a half million registered on the platform today. They consume the modules that we build with APIs, SDKs, data sets, and more and more applications to accomplish whatever those location needs might be. >>Why we appreciate you coming on. You are featured keynote by presenter here at summit, which means Amazon thinks you're super important to share. I'll say your customer. So you, I know you've been a customer for a long time as a company, but what was your keynote about what was the main theme? The developers were all here. You got the builders. What was your content? What did you present this morning on the keynote? Yeah, >>Well, this morning we really talked a lot about logistics and the, this story that we told was know in the logistics industry, there is a massive movement to shorter and shorter delivery windows. And so the, the, the story that we told is really around a 10 minute delivery. Now, have you ever wondered how you get a 10 minute delivery? You, you place an order on your phone and all of a sudden somebody shows up at your front doorstep. You ever wonder about that? >><laugh> >>Some shows supply >>Chain. Someone's waiting in the wings from my call. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. Well, that's right. >>John's about to order sometime soon. That's right. You ready? That's right. Do all these assets. That's >>Right. They're all ready for you. But there's actually a tremendous amount that actually goes into that. And so it really starts with designing the right distribution system up front. And so we've got tools and, and applications and, and APIs that support that. And really it, every single step of the way, location is a critical aspect to making that delivery happen and getting it to a customer's doorstep in 10 minutes or less. And so how are you understanding the real time road graph that underlies a, a, a driver going from perhaps a dark store, dark kitchen to getting in, excuse me, in front of a customer in 10 minutes with hot food. >>I mean, this is a big point. I was just joking about waiting for me, you know, that, but the point is, is that it's not obvious, but it sounds really hard. I know it's hard because to have that delivery, a lot of things have to happen. It's not just knowing location. >>That's exactly >>Right. So can you just UN pull appeal back the covers on that? What's going on there? >>Yeah. So imagine this is, is, it really starts, as I was saying with designing that distribution system and it's putting in place where you might not expect it, it's actually putting in place a retail store, but these aren't any retail stores, right? These are dark stores. These are dark kitchens that are strategically placed as close as possible, the customer density, so that you can actually shorten that window as much as possible to get you whatever that order might be. But from there, it actually goes quite a bit further when an order actually comes in, you've gotta be able to understand how do I sign an, a driver to get that order to the customer in that, in that very short period of time, more often than not, it's getting it to the driver that can get there the fastest, once you've got the right driver identified, how are you actually then going to enable them to get from point a to B to get that order. >>And then perhaps from B to C to get to your front door, being able to do turn by turn navigation that reflects everything. That's how happening in the real world to be able to get there on a timely way is critical. And then wrapping around that actually the, the, the end customer's experience your experience with how are you placing that order? Yeah. How are you using Mapbox services to do that? How are you being able to track on your application and say, well, you know, great, I expect 10 minutes and they're five minutes away. Are you gonna show up our APIs and SDKs power? That experience, >>I wanna get into the product in a second, but you brought up something I think's important to highlight. One is dark kitchens, dark stores. That's right. Okay. Term people may or may not have heard of, we all have experience in COVID going to our favorite restaurant, which has been kind of downsized because of the COVID and we're waiting for our food. And someone comes in from another delivery ever standing in line next was just pick something up. I mean, they're going through the front door. That's like the, the, the branded store. So, so is it right to say that dark kitchens are essentially replicas of the store to minimize that traffic, but, but also to be efficient for something else that's right. >>It actually even goes further than that. There are many restaurant brands. Now, it only exists as a brand. They don't have a restaurant that you can go to and sit down and have that meal. They actually only operate dark kitchens to, to serve that demand of people wanting to order up, Hey, I want my food. I want it. Now, those brands exist to serve that need. >>All right. So great for the definition, we just define dark kitchens, dark stores, but also brings, I wanna get your reaction to this before we get into the product, cuz this is a trend that's right. This is not like a one off thing. That's right. It's not a pulled forward TA a market that was COVID enabled. This is actually a user experience inflection point. That's >>Right. >>Can you share your vision on what this means? Because there's mobile ordering, there's the dynamics of the kitchens as a supplier of something in stores. So that's content or a product that's being delivered to a consumer via of the web. So now there's gotta be a whole nother reef factoring of the operating environment. Now that's what's happening is that might get that >>Right? No, that's exactly right. And even if you step back, even further and you, you think about the, the journey that the logistics industry has been on, it used to be that two days was that really exciting delivery time. Right. And everybody got it super excited. Then it became next day. Then it became same day and now it's become 10 minutes. And even some companies are out there offering seven minute deliveries, right. And in order to do that, you've gotta completely retool your business. So you can think the logistics and industry really existing on two continuums, you've got pre-planned deliveries on one hand and on-demand deliveries on the other. And there are two parallel distribution systems and ecosystems and industries really springing up to serve those different types of demand. >>So you've been on Amazon web services customer for how many years, >>Since 2013 in our founding. And you know, actually we're really proud to say that we were born on Amazon and we have scaled on Amazon. >>How are they helping you scale? What are they doing to help you? >>Well, I'd say just about everything. And if you think about their, the, the services that Amazon provides for us, they power every single step of our business along the way. And so I'll give you an example. We can walk through that with some of the tech technology. I, if you think about again, how do you get 10 minutes? You gotta have a pretty precise understanding of what's going on in the real world. And so to do that, it, for us, it all starts with collecting billions and billions of data points from sensors that are out there in the world. We stream that into our technology stack, starting at the very beginning with Amazon ESIS. And so that's just the start. But then that feeds into our entire technology stack that all runs on site on top of AWS, to where we're running our own AI models that we use Amazon SageMaker to make, and then stream it back out to our AP, through our APIs, to our se Ks and applications that sit on the edge again, all leveraging Amazon technology. >>Well, I think this is a great use case and I'll get back into the, the Mapbox a second, but Amazon, you guys are executing what I call the super cloud vision, which is snowflake you guys building on their CapX leverage. You're building a super cloud on your own. It's your app, it's your cloud. >>That's right. That's right. So if you, again, if you think about it, you know, and actually just stepping back for a moment, tell about Mapbox for a second is what, what Mapbox can do is provide the most accurate digital representation of the physical world. Think about the Mapbox technology, delivering the most accurate digital twin of mother earth, right? That's what we do. And the way that we do that is to consume, as I said earlier, vast amounts of data, we've got powerful AI that structures that data, and then really robust and scalable infrastructure that underpins all of that. Now the benefit of working with a company like AWS is that they take care of that third point. Yeah. Which means we get to go focus on the first two, which is how we differentiate and build our >>Business. And that's exactly the model of how you win in the cloud. In my opinion, that's the go big piece, the go and there's tools that fit in white spaces. But that's the, I think that's the right formula. Let's get back to Mac boxer. I know you've got news. You got the, the, uh, Mapbox fleet SDK. You announced, I wanna hold on that we'll get to in a second, let's get back to what you got are providing that example as you have this new operating environment of how delivery and, and supply chain and that's example, I want to know how tech your technology is making all that work. Because I was just talking to someone last night about this web van was web 1.0 and crash never was successful. Instacart is kind of hurting. So maybe they're optimized. You could save them. I mean, cuz the economics gotta work. If you don't have the underlying system built, that might fail. So there'll be probably the third version that gets it. Right. Maybe at Mapbox again, I'm speculating, but I'll let you talk. Yeah. How does Mapbox solve the, that problem? >>You know, it's interesting if you come back to that, that, that analogy we're using with AWS and how do you use AWS to win in the cloud? It's the same story for Mapbox of how do you win in the location industry? And what we do is provide those same tool sets of APIs and SDKs, the thing go power, those logistics companies like an Instacart, who's a great customer of ours to run in their logistics business on top of it again, it's all about how do you provide technology that allows your customers yeah. To focus on what matters from a differentiation perspective as they focus on building their >>Business and you think your economics is gonna enable these people to be successful >>100%. That's >>The goal >>100%. >>All right. So another thing that I wanna bring up is the fleet SDK, what was the, that you announced they can, you just quickly share the news on what this >>Is? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that, John. Yeah. So today on the Eve of earth day, we're very excited to announce Mapbox fleet going into, uh, our beta launch and what Mapbox fleet is, is, uh, a set of tools and application that allows our customers to more efficiently route their vehicles, which means lowering their fuel consumption. And at the same time, more efficiently dispatching those vehicles, which means that you can get more done with fewer assets, essentially. How do you get more packages onto a single vehicle to get those to the customers? Now you may be watching the news and understanding, yeah, there's a tremendous explosion of delivery going. Yeah. And that's fantastic. Right? That's great business for our logistics customers. Good business for us too. What's happening though, is that as those volumes are ballooning, everybody's all of a sudden, really looking at their cost structures and trying to understand how do I manage this? >>Right. I have efficiency targets as a business. Maybe I've been really focused on customer acquisition. Now it's time to flip the model and really understand in the economics of profitable growth. We help with that, with that focus on efficiency, but the double edged sword with growth and, and you know, running a logistics business is that you actually have a tremendous amount of carbon emissions that are associated with that. Yeah. For a car to show up or a truck to show up, to deliver something to your house, their emissions associated with that. So what we find is that we're able to not only drive dollar savings for our customers, but also as part of that, with the efficiency angle, really help to drive down the overall carbon impact in the carbon footprint of what they do. And >>How do you do that? >>Well, it's the efficiency lens, right? So if somebody is driving 20%, fewer miles, they're going to emit 20% fewer. Okay. >>Gotcha. So it's a numbers game across the board with actual measurement. That's exactly right. Built in and say optimization paths, all kinds of navigation. >>That's exactly right. So embedded within Mapbox fleet application are those optimization algorithm. >>So you got a platform that's setting up for the next level delivery system slash new way to connect people to goods and services and other things getting from point a to point B, you got the sustainability check you're in the cloud, born in the cloud cloud scale. I gotta a, I can't go without asking if you're on Amazon, you do all this cool stuff. There's gotta be a machine learning an AI angle. So what is that? Yeah, absolutely. >>Absolutely. AB yeah. You know, <laugh> guilty as charged. >>I would say >>John. Uh, so look, I >>Think, I mean AI and, and sustainability are gonna be, I think filings in my, in the future we be talking about on the cube, if you're not an AI company or, and doing force for good stuff, I think there's gonna be mandatory requirements on those. >>I couldn't three more. I think the ESG agenda is an incredibly important one. One that's core to Mapbox has been since the founding of the company back in 2013. Uh, but if you look at how does AI and ML fit into Mapbox, it does that in a number of different ways. And really when we come back to this idea of Mapbox creating a digital twin of the earth, the way that we do that, it is through ingesting a tremendous amount of sensor data. Right? You can imagine, uh, Mapbox customers on any given week drive, billions of miles, we're capturing all of that telemetry data to understand and make sense of what does that mean for, for, for the world that allows us to push in any given day 700,000 updates to our underly, your location technology stack, and at the same time provide insights as to exactly what's happening. Are there roadside incidents? Are there, are there issues with traffic? So by collecting all of that data, we run incredibly powerful AI models on top of it that allow us to create the, the real world representation of what's happening. That's exactly how >>It works. What, what, as they say in the, um, big data AI world is you guys have a tremendous observation space. You're looking at a lot of surface area data that's exactly right. Across multiple workloads and apps. That's >>Exactly >>Right. You can connect those dots with the right AI. >>That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I think I, you know, coming back to your point around sustainability, I do think that the AI and ML capabilities that are being delivered are going to be paramount to that. It being such a fundamental aspect to what am, to what Mapbox does as a business allows us to launch these game changing solutions like Mapbox fleet and staying on that, that kind of environmental and sustainable kick for a second. Just last week, we launched our, our EV routing API that powers the next generation of EVs. So AI ML sustainability. If it's not core business today, it's gotta very quickly become core. >>It's really interesting. I really think what we're teasing out here and it's fun to talk about it now because we'll look back at it later 10 years or more and say, wow, this is completely refactored the industry and lives and the planet ultimately. Right. So this is a, a kind of got force for good built into the system natively. That's >>Right. That's >>That's interesting, Garrett, thanks so much for sharing the story. Give you the last word, share with the audience, what you guys are up to, what you're promoting, what you're looking for. Are you hiring, uh, is there a call to action? You wanna share? Give the plug for the company? Yeah, >>Absolutely hiring like crazy come join Mapbox and BU build the future of geolocation and intelligent location services with us. Uh, the, thanks so much for the time, >>John. Thanks for coming on cube coverage here in San Francisco, California Mosconi center back at live events. I'm John for host cube stayed with us as day two wraps down. Remember New York city. This summer will be there as well. Cube coverage of more cloud coverage events are back. Thanks for watching.

>>Yeah, >>from The Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Hi, everybody. We're back. And you're watching the Cube's coverage of the IBM think digital event for 2020. This is that he's socially distant and socially responsible. You? My name is Dave a lot. David Larose. Who's the general manager of the IBM partner ecosystem? David, Good to see you. >>Likewise. Great to be here. >>Yes, it is. Your first year in running the the ecosystem. You probably don't expect to be managing through the this world crisis this novel Corona virus. But what was your first move? Your outreach to partners? How are you communicating to them? Maybe you could share with us how that's all going. >>It certainly wasn't in the break. So when I took this job, you're right. But, you know, we have a very strong relationship with with our partners, and what we have is we have a global advisory board. So about 25 or 30 of our largest customers across the world, we engaged with them very, very quickly. That's all of the CIOs presidents, vice presidents of styles, um, and we engage with them on a survey and said, How are you thinking about it's what are the what are your big concerns and, you know, not unusually. They came back with a couple of key things. Number one was, and their primary concern is how do they support their clients? That was probably number one on their list of things followed very closely. By enabling their firms that have a financial stability that was number two and then probably number three. I would say it was, you know, managing their work. But they're moving to a digital only type of environment, similar to what IBM has done ever kind of the three, the three big concerns. And then we spent some time talking to them about how we could help, then really deal with that and address some of those problems. And earlier this week, we we announced so therefore very key things around. How do we help them? One. How do we adapt our programs and our incentives and, uh, really looking at providing them with, you know, extension of things like loyalty program. So don't worry about you know, your ability to re validate and recertify. We gotta protect your loyalty for 2020. We added a lot of incentives in the hardware systems program in the second quarter, so we've increased by half a percent off their based incentive from the first dollar that a lot of areas around programs in terms. Then we sort of really tried to address that point of view around digital. Um, some companies were digitally ready, but there are many companies that weren't actually know a digital platform, but also we very quickly rolled out what we call it my digital marketing platform, where partners can come in and download content and curate content from IBM and then wrap their own campaigns around that and get that out and continue to engage with their clients and their partners. Um, and we funding all of that 100% from an IBM perspective on using our car marketing goals. We used to have a 50 50 funding model without with their partners. But in this particular scenario, that's a digital program that they're running with funding at 100%. And then we're also opening up to provide consultancy on how to optimize digital. So I think you know the thing that we've done here is just their programs in terms quickly, um, or money back into the into the program during the second quarter and protect the ability for our partners and then really trying to help them and enable them to get Teoh Digital our workforce and the digital program. >>Yeah, a couple things there. I mean, we were talking earlier to the the folks from IBM Global Finance, and that's a key part that you mentioned liquidity. You know, certainly these partners air obviously very much concerned about the uncertainty ahead. So having a partner like IBM that can, whether it's, you know, pass on, you know, lease terms, etcetera and provide that sort of blacking is this key? I think the other thing, too we've heard from a lot of executives, is you've got to stay close to your clients during we always do, but especially during times like this, And that's where partners are so crucial in IBM huge company, you know, massive direct sales force, but you can't cover everything. And so having the partner who's got intimate relationships, I mean, I was on a call earlier this week with a partner in Minneapolis I mean, he knows everybody in that region. And so you just that level of intimacy, I think becomes very, very important in times like this, doesn't it? >>Absolutely. And stay connected with with that. So we have about, you know, just a lot of, Ah, 21,000 active planners across across the world and staying close to the senior members of our largest partners is is really important to us. We had a We hosted a call earlier this week actually, with with their advisory council to test the programs that we've gotten in the market, Are they getting where they need, where they need the help the most? We take a lot of feedback with adjusted our programs. We're looking at this on a literally a daily basis right now on don't envisage that we would we would update pretty agile in terms of how we move that. But you know, to your point, having a partner network that we do have around by the hardware and software only on and is right, so learn what were wrong. You know what they're hearing from their pot from their clients and, you know, it allows us to more easily and quickly address needs across all of the IBM client set. >>So we interview a lot of partners, and, you know, when you talk to the familiar, they've got to make money. They have. The margin is very important to them, but it's almost it's table stakes. I mean, again, they can make money a lot of different ways. So what differentiates the suppliers is all these other things that you're talking about? Um, So I want to ask you when you came in to this this role, what you're doing priorities in terms of, you know, partner outreach, retaining that, that loyalty And what do you see changing a za result of this pandemic? >>Yeah, it's a great question. So look, four key priorities that we declared very early on and, by the way, you know, took over from John Touched at the time. And John has spent the last two years really transforming, um, your channel and the way we engage with channel. And so there was a lot of hard lifting that was already done, but it was sort of four. Things that we focused in on one was obviously, how do we continue? Accelerate IBM drive into the hybrid multi cloud market, particularly now with the integration of Red Hat into the organization. That's a very different, you know, sales motion that Wei had so accelerating that was one of the key parties, the 2nd 1 waas. And how do we continue to differentiate on the value and so ensuring that that our programs are staying up to speed and that they're being modernized? You know, the IBM possible program is being a program predominantly built on Recile over the last 10 years. Now the microchip that we're now talking about platforms not talking about consumption. And this week during Partner World, we're gonna talk about how we are going to evolve the part of the program to move into the rest partners who are building on platforms. And how about they're moving to consumption again, all around hybrid, multi, multi cloud. That's kind of the second thing skills, skills and expertise for out for a channel. We kind of have declared that we want our channel to be the most skilled channel in the industry, and it's really interesting, Dave, during this period of the pandemic, it's one of these times where we seem to have more recent and more time, and the partners have been giving us a lot of feedback to say during this time around. Workforce is home and is connected digitally. Why don't we? Wasn't IBM help with in enhancing the enablement programme certification? And so we're doing a lot around that. We see a Z great opportunity to CIO to really develop certifications and skills and expertise during this period. Um, and then the full thing is around winning in what we call out selective segments. And so we want our partners to operate across the IBM portfolio and across our client set. But where we really need the help and where we're putting the money in the programs is around the mid size organizations where they can bring the portfolio into places that it doesn't have this today, new clients or existing clients with with IBM. But the Jason like server was that kind of the four priorities and what we're seeing is and this situation that we're going through this pandemic going through, it's actually accelerating the areas around moving. My partner multi cloud cloud is becoming a differentiator for us and accelerating. I need to get a program that is relevant beyond just resell. But you know this, this concept of platforms and building. But as they build with their own light beyond platform and consumption, So I think it's it's actually accelerating what we've seen and have it moving forward. >>It's interesting what you're saying about resale. We've talked many, many years now on the Cube about the partner ecosystem. It really used to be about resale. You know, we have a majority of his box selling, and you could make a lot of money doing that, you know, a decade or two ago. But when Cloud came, partners really started to underst and that that there was a sea change happening in I T. For a while there, they thought, Wow, you know, this is really going to be challenging. Cloud's going to kill us. But what they realized after a while is with five exactly complex hybrid Cloud is it's not simple to cure and create a seamless experience across clouds on prime etcetera. So the huge opportunities open up, add value. So there's been a massive change in the mindset. Uh, and it sounds like particularly with digital, that the pandemic is going to accelerate that on. People are going to come out of this, um, almost having done some exercises, maybe in a little bit better shape than they came into it. You buy that premise? >>My question is no question about it. I mean, if you think about, you know, IBM portfolio for a minute. Um, and over the last really 6 to 9 months, we have containerized out our software portfolio. It's based on the, you know, the kubernetes container ization and an open ship. So we're ready from a portfolio perspective. And, you know, now we're catching up from a program perspective we're introducing this week and out in the world this concept of a build program and a service program, and so that is their will preserve and continue to evolve the cell program that resell. But you know this concept of the build program and the service programs and only extend the reach that we have to the data and the ecosystem that we're operating in new sets of partners. But is that one of transition, that business from recent consumption? We're going to support that. But then you have to your point around this whole digital everything from digital capabilities around, generating amount of opportunity and a little bit about that earlier with my program and the funding that we've got behind that the experience that we're we're offering as consultants, but also this concept of digital selling. You know, there's not all about partners are savvy around digital selling. So we've been doing that for many, many years. And, uh and so we're opening up digital selling Enablement sessions, Webinars consultancy and a bunch of assets that that IBM has and has invested in for many, many years and opening that up to you want to add channel? >>Yes, There was some great opportunities there for our partners. I mean, we The Cube has been covering the Red Hat Summit we had Jim Whitehurst on. We're in the process of scheduling Arvin so great to see, you know, kind of connect the dots between those franchises and identify the opportunities, and they're significant. I mean, Red Hat has a lot of momentum in the market. IBM has a huge presence, great opportunity to modernize applications, And then your point about the hardware side we just saw on IBM s latest earnings, released at the Fisher running in hardware right now on, uh, you know, obviously tailwind of the Z cycle, but other parts of the portfolio storage from 19%. So so some exciting times for partners, even though there's so much uncertainty in the market again, staying close to customers, you know, doing doing right by your employees, leveraging the IBM relationship where you're obviously providing a lot of backdrop in support. David, I wonder if you could just sort of wrap a bow around. You know, think 2020 is the virtual trucks are pulling away away from the virtual digital Mosconi. What's the take? Aways will give us the bumper sticker. >>Look, the bumper sticker is that it's never been a better time to be an idea. We've got a leading portfolio that is now ready for the new world. Will the consumption and the world building on um, we are, you know, we're modernizing our programs to ensure that you can make money here. There's a lot of money to be made as we as we get into this thing, this new world and we are behind you right now to support you financially and to get you develop digitally enabled guy. So never been a time to be an IBM partner right now. >>David. Great message. Thank you very much for coming on the Cube. And best of luck to you. Stay safe and ah, again, really appreciate your time. >>You too, Dave. Thanks very much. Bye. Site. >>You know, uh, and you're watching the Cube here at IBM? Think 2020. Our digital coverage. We'll be right back right after this short break. I'm Dave Volante, and you're watching the Cube? >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>Yeah, >>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back, everybody. This is Dave Volante of the Cube. You're watching our continuous coverage of IBM stink 2020. The digital version of it. De Bug is here. She's the HR VP and Chief leadership learning and inclusion officer at IBM. Good to see you. >>Great to see you as well. Thanks for having me. >>You're very welcome. While we're in the same region of New England, you know which we're face to face at Mosconi. But, you know, we're doing the best we can, right? Absolutely. So I got to ask you So one of your roles is you're responsible for executive leadership succession. So I remember I was in ah, lobby hotel in Barcelona when I heard that Arvind Krishna was taking over, is the CEO of IBM and I have sat there and wrote a blogger tapped out of log on my mobile phone, but a little did you know. And, you know, at that time we had a glimpse of what was coming, but I don't think we really fully understood. Ah, and and So I'm wondering, how do you prepare for that type of succession? >>Well, you know, I think our leaders now are all encountering unexpected circumstances where we have big plans and big actions. We plan. But the front contact is asking us to rethink them in all kinds of ways. So, of course, IBM is the kind of company who had a very well thought through kind of world class succession process. But none of us thought that we would be integrating Arvind and launching him into his new role as the CEO working from home. So we had to do what every leader at IBM is doing right now, which is starting from a position of resilience, taking a deep breath, thinking through what's really happening to me, to my work, to my situation right now. Um, a lot of us are working from home. A lot of us are adjusting to physical distancing. There are many leaders here who are deeply worried about their families, their their lives, their situation. And so you're starting from a position of personal resilience, making sure we put our own oxygen mask ons. We can, I think clearly and make decisions was an important first step. Second, focus on empathy. Leaders across IBM right now are really focused on making sure they understand the situation people are in, that they understand the physical, emotional, mental health and needs and requirements of every IBM are, uh, so that they can make really good decisions about priorities. And then it's time to focus on what's mission critical. What's urgent to compartmentalize and relentlessly prioritize. So we can all be successful. All of those lessons of by two succession, like they do to every other work and let us Teoh reimagine and create really interesting digital intimacy opportunities to connect Arvin with every IBM around the world through new kinds of social channels. And overall, I think it's been a really incredible experience. >>Yeah, yoga breaths are a good thing that this is his time, aren't they? Oh, >>I want to ask. Depressed for sure, >>right? No doubt. Um, so and you know, you guys probably had a little bit of ah, canary in a coal mine leading sort of visibility on this cause you've obviously got a presence in China and throughout the world, and so you probably a little bit ahead of of other U S. Based Is that fair? >>Well, we certainly are a global company. And so you know the idea that everyone is going through this in the same way? Same time? It's just not accurate. We have people all over the world, and I think we did have our, you know, early lessons from our colleagues in China who are incredibly resilient, who showed us the way with great social distancing discipline and really working hard together to help each other be successful in challenging times. And we've learned that in every community around the world that's been impacted, and I think that's been one of the most surprising and amazing things about the school experience is the way we've been able to leverage digital technologies at scale, to connect with one another, learn from one another and support each other through a very, very challenging experience. >>So, Deb, you've got inclusion in your title. Um, and so that z relatively new thing. Um, I wonder if you could address sort of what that means you to IBM And why is it so important right now? >>Inclusion is, you know, sort of the core of what makes it possible for us to benefit from each other's incredible talents. I like to say, you know, diversity is important to make sure you have the right people the table. But inclusion is how you turn that talent that's at the table into magic. Inclusion is what allows every one of us bring our uniqueness to the tip. Want to contribute, And it couldn't be more important than right now. Inclusion is the most important ingredient to helping people thrive and difficult times. It allows team members to quickly orient to new ways of being together on an inclusive leader, is able to manage it in a digitally distributed environment and create a new context for people to connect with one another. Ask the right questions to allow team members to manage the competing priorities of homeschooling working, living all in the same environment. Eso inclusive leaders really create a context for each other's contribution and success. You'll hear again and again in the description of how IBM leaders are thriving in this time. How we're stepping up and stepping in Where are the embers, our communities and our clients on finding ways to include, learn, take the best insights and accelerate productivity and the right solutions in this challenging environment. Inclusion is one of IBM's biggest assets right now. >>Well, you mentioned that you kind of connecting Arvin digitally with, you know, the broader IBM community. So that's kind of interesting, right? I mean, leading digitally. He has no choice, you know, other than he is not the only leader at IBM, obviously is the top leader, but there are many, many leaders at IBM. So how is this sort of we're talking today through the Cube's digital? How is this digital revolution really affecting people's ability to lead? How are they stepping up to that challenge? >>Sure. Well, IBM, like all our clients, have been on a journey of digital transformation for the last several years that this is really putting it to test in it a very different way. You know, it's presenting new challenges and new opportunities. The opportunities are incredible. New tools like we're using, you know, WebEx and Trillo and slack and your role and your all based in the in the IBM Cloud, really enabling full digital collaboration at a whole different scale than ever before and leveraging new kinds of leadership insights and new kinds of leadership mindsets. To benefit from all that great ability to collaborate, a synchronously Teoh create digitally distributed creative conversations and then as leaders, knowing how to harness all that creativity and provide the right context for people to share, to move product quickly, be more agile in our production of outcomes and solutions. That's right at home. In my group, for example, we're creating new digital communities and coming up with new solutions with our, you know, includes inclusion communities, new solutions with our teams to help enable leadership and new learning solutions all over the company. It also working digitally presents a new challenge. Is trying to figure out, um, how to help people balance the challenges of being at home and things that we might have relied on face to face contact for, to create different levels of trust and interactivity. Learn new skills, etcetera. Some leaders have recognizing some of those challenges gotten together and, you know, taking a work from home pledge, helping each other figure out and co create with parents were working at home. How Teoh navigate this new digital, totally distributed remote work situation we're in or, um, you know, figuring out how to teach each other how to use new tools. So I think, uh, you know, if I were going to give advice to any leader now, I would say it's a good time to assess your digital presence in your digital savviness and then think about how you're showing up in these digital forums. Are you trying to do things in the same way you were doing them just doing them online? Or have you really rethought your digital present? And are you really using that environment to create the maximum context of creativity and inclusion? >>You have your theme. >>You know, Dave, I was having a conversation earlier with an IBM executive and a Cisco executive, and I kind of joke that you know what people need right now. They don't need people selling them Stuff II D practitioners. They're putting out fires and, you know, changes in some industries where you're just trying to keep the company's alive. And I joked, That's kind of what they need is some adult supervision. And what do you see as IBM is role in this sort of during this crisis and maybe even post this prices? How would you define that. >>Absolutely so look. IBM is a trusted partner to the companies of the world who are facing the same challenge we're facing and trying to digitally transform themselves and thrive as the world continues to grow and change. And certainly this current context. What's the whole thing in a different, different relief? But fundamentally, IBM is the most important technology company in the world because we have the technology that industry expertise and the position of trust with our clients they don't need. What they need from IBM is not selling them something. But they need our partnership to imagine themselves in the future, reinvent themselves toward that future, too, to thrive during this incredible challenge and maintain business continuity while they become who they're going to be in the next terrorist. So, you know, it's a challenge for all of us. We are a huge global company and 173 countries and, you know, 350,000 people uniquely positioned to help. We have, you know, incredible technology. We have, you know, the call for code with our developers all over the world helping to solve these issues, we have, you know, many ways in which IBM is positioned socially to make a difference in helping with skill, acquisition, super compute capacity in many, many ways that we can help as a business. But closer to home, we're also able to help companies imagine how they can emerge stronger by re inventing their digitally reinventing their business processes and their leadership and talent cultures for how they can thrive in that in the New America. >>Rob Thomas and I were talking about how you know things most coveted. Maybe maybe they change. Maybe they don't, but but that's certainly is gonna be an acceleration. Ah t some things you're mentioning, you know, digital transformation. Um, certainly people are more willing to look at the cloud. You know, this whole work from home infrastructure seems to be some thing that has legs. Do you think inclusion is going to be one of these things that gets accelerated as a result of this pandemic? >>Absolutely. Do I mean, I think we have lived in an era where this kind of concept was sort of nice, tohave or viewed as a Z important, but maybe not essential. I think that's really being transformed by the current environment, and people are expecting their companies to provide a context that is psychologically safe, inclusive and on helps them do their best work when it matters most. Those are the companies that are going to emerge from this challenge stronger. And so IBM is culturally. Last year we talked a lot at think about the compelling call to action. To be equal that comes from IBM is deep commitment to diversity and inclusion and in every era challenging ourselves to doom or to create a context of full inclusion and equality. Well, this year we're expanding that concept to include all forms of equality. We started with gender equality. Now we're looking at full inclusion for all, and in this circumstance it could not be more important. And so I do think, you know, you said it well, you know, there are all kinds of capabilities that will be transformed and scaled. As a result of this. Our technology environment will be different or commitment to infrastructure working from home. Lots of things will be different. I think one of them is a call to action for leaders to be more inclusive and to to create the context where everyone can be. >>Well, I think it's important that companies like IBM lead in this regard. Sometimes, you know, it's harder for smaller companies they may not have. The resource is they've been out of the network. Uh, and so, you know, setting the example as IBM is very important. But thank you so much for coming on the Cube and sharing your philosophy IBM philosophy in your best practice, etcetera with us on the Cube. Appreciate it. >>Thanks so much for having me be safe and be Well, >>yeah, back at you. You too. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube's continuous coverage of IBM. Think 2020 The digital thing. Keep right there. Right back. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Red Hat. Summit 2020 Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Hi, I'm Stew Minimum And and this is the Cube's coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020 course Digital event This year. We're not together at Mosconi, but we are bringing together many of the speakers thought leaders, customers in this very important ecosystem. Really excited to welcome back to our program. Stephanie Cheers. Who's the vice president and general manager of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux business unit inside of Red Hat. Stephanie. So great to see you have to give you a virtual hug high five year, but you know, always great to see and have you on the program. >>Oh, thank you. So it's great to be here, and this is what together means today. But it's great to be together with you >>again. Here it's limit. >>Yeah, the discussion is you talk on it together apart for for a time we talk in tact. That change is one of the only constants that we have, and there are more changes than ever happening right now. So before we get into kind of your B you talk a little bit about, You know, some of the big changes. There's organizational changes, you know, I know we spoke to you about in 2019 at IBM Think and Red Hat Summit because you've worked for both sides of the equation here, Uh, give us kind of the latest from your standpoint. >>Yes, certainly the leadership changes which have been public now for a couple weeks. Those were a big change >>for for us. I think one of the things that has come through is IBM has really been respecting what red hat is. What? Um, what we do. But also how we do it is very important and valued. And we at red Hat >>believe in it so strongly. We're sticking to what Red Hat does best. Everything is open source. Everything is collaborative. And honestly, I have to say it. It >>feels great as a red Hatter to see Jim in the position he's in at IBM Um, Paul's passion, >>which clearly comes across in his keynotes and >>his passion for how we do have an open source development model. It's great to have them now take over the CEO role for Red hat. So it's it's really exciting times. I think. Last year when we spoke, it was, um it was a bit of a wait and see and see what happens. And I think now the recent announcements really solidify this sort of synergy and partnership that IBM and Red Hat have and what our intentions are in the market. But at Red Hat, we still stay red hat, and we're still driving things the way we always have. And that's great. Feels that >>that that's great. And thank you so much for the update. So when we talk about your business unit that the Red Hat Enterprise, Linux, of course, Rehl, um, you know, I've got a little too much history, you know. I go back when it was, whereas, you know, before well and kind of wash the growth of Linux sto become really, you know, the underlying fabric of so much of what we see out there today for all of businesses, so many companies could not exist if it wasn't for Linux. And in the seven years we've been having the Cube, of course, we've really watched that that moved from Lennox to not only be some of the foundations of what's happening in customer's environments, but also a major piece of cloud and cloud. Native S O. You know, give us that up date as to, you know, here in 2020. You know why? You know Linux has been around for quite a long time, but, you know, it's still is relevant. >>Yeah, so that's it. That's a >>great leader and ties exactly to how we look at well in the red hat sort of entire portfolio. Um, when you look at Lenox of how it evolved, it started out as being a bit of a cheaper alternative to units. But it quickly became, because of the open source way and collaborative way it's developed. It quickly became sort of this springboard for innovation because you have all these incredible innovators collaborating upstream. All of that has fed to a whole different view of what Linux is. Is cloud exists because of Linux is containers are just a different deployment mechanism or Lennox workloads, artificial intelligence. All those APS are built on Linux, so it's become this standardized foundation upon which innovation is done today, And for me, that's the most exciting thing, because it red hat and rail. Our goal is to one. Have it just work right? It has >>to be the standard. And, um well, sometimes that can be misinterpreted. It >>is boring or a commodity. It is anything but a commodity. It's probably one of the most strategic decisions that someone makes. Is which Raoul Distribution? Which Red Hat, which Lennox distribution did they use and that really take real pride that it's built for the enterprise? It's build for security. It's built for resiliency, and all of that build it once deploy anywhere, translates into also using all the innovation, all the container ization capabilities, using it across multiple public clouds. So it's really that combination of having it just work, be the foundation of where you build once and then being able to leverage all the innovation that's coming out of the open source world today. >>Yeah, really interesting points. Stephanie, I think back to when we talked for years about the consumer nation consumers, consumer ization. Excuse me of I t and people thought that therefore, there wouldn't be differentiation, you know, just by white box things and everything will be off the shelf. But if you look at how most companies build things, they really hyper optimize that. I need to build what I need. I need to use the tools that are available, and I need to be able to be agile. You know, I want one of my highlights last year talking to a lot of companies going through their digital transformation and a number of them at Red Hat Summit last year where they talked about both the organization and technology changes that they're making to move faster. And, of course, your portfolio is a big piece of helping them move forward. >>And that's one thing we're seeing that that ability to consume, innovation and get the >>most and extract the most out of what they're running today in their data center. As customers transform and take on this digital transformation, it's not just a technology statement. In most cases, it's an organizational statement as well. And how do you bridge both those and move it forward? It's one thing we focus a lot on right with the open innovation labs, with a lot of customers as well, because it's not just about the technology, it's about the way we work in the way we do things as well. >>Yeah. So, Stephanie, you know, every every year or so I hear it's like, Oh, well, we've got a new way to To the operating system. There was the Jeff just enough operating system for for a while when container ization came out, there was little company named core Os. That was like, Oh, we're going to make a thin version or core OS is now Ah, piece of red hat. Um, so still, with the cloud, there's always, you know, we're going to change the way the operating system it's done. Um, we just love your viewpoint as to, you know, Red Hat has, you know, a few options and kind of a spectrum of offerings. But how do your customers think about the OS these days? And you know, how should we be thinking about rail specifically in that overall spectrum? >>No, it's so that's a great question, too. And we look at >>it as Lennox and Rehl is be one thing that stays the same and helps you get the value out of all the work you've already put in all the development work you've already put in. And make sure that that translates to the future, where everything is changing, how you deploy where you deploy what you deploy. All of that may change, but if you want to get the value out of the work in the development that has been done yesterday, you need something to stay the same. In our view, that's real. We build it with um in mind for the enterprise along lifecycle security support. We build all of that into it so that when you build on a rail monorail kernel, you can take that. If you want to deploy it in a container, you can deploy on Rehl itself. Or if you need orchestration, you can deploy it on open shift. And that's part of the reason why you mentioned Core OS. So we now have a rail core. OS is within open shift 4.0, on beyond, of course. But what we did was we tailor down what is. In reality, it's the same packages. It's the same certification, security, all of that work that we put in. We take the core OS piece of it, what's essential and really optimized for open shift. We build that into an immutable image, and it goes out as part of open shift. It's not available separately because it's really tailored. What we pick the life cycle is all matching open shift, >>and what that does >>is provide you on open shift experience. That's easy to update fully across the board, all the way down to the kernel. But you know, it's the same Lennox that you have in rail, >>and it's that consistency >>of technology that we really strive for. Um, same thing in public Cloud. So when you build an image on Prem on REL, you can take that image up into the public cloud. And no, it's the same level of security and it just will work, you know, part of part of my team. And we take a lot of pride in the fact that it will just work on. And while that >>may not sound super exciting, particularly in days >>like like right now, being dependable and being reliable and knowing that it's secure, all of that is really important when you run your business that those those features or anything but commoditized >>Well, yeah, I think one of the real volumes that customers see with real specifically is there's so much change going on there, and you look at the Linux community, you look at what open shifts doing in the Kubernetes community. There's so much coaches going on red hat packages that make sure that you don't need to think about the almost chaos that's going out there in all of those communities. But you packaged those together. So Stephanie rarely was, of course, one of the highlights of last year's Red Hat Summit. So we'd love to hear you know, if you've got any good customer stories, really, the momentum of relate as you've seen it, you roll out around the world as and then we'll talk about the new updates. You have this. >>Yeah, great. So Rehl eight was a big deal for us last year, as you remember, and partly because not >>only all the features and functions, of course, which we put into it, but also because we really wanted to reposition what the value of an operating system is within a data center and within their innovation future. So we really focus all the features and functions into two buckets. One is about how do we help you with the operating system? Run your business better, more efficiently If the most out of the systems you have in the critical workloads that you run today and how do we use the operating system to help you bridge into the next level of innovation? What's coming down the pipeline? Things like containers. >>And we really wanted to >>make sure that, as we see you know, most customers are looking to how they digitally transform. But of course, no one has the freedom to throw away everything they've done in the past. They want to build upon that and get value out of it. So we really focused on balancing those two things now, as we look at. In fact, one of the commitments we made because we heard it from customers was they wanted a more predictable deployment of our minor releases and our major releases. And we committed, um, at the REHL eight launch that we would be delivery minor releases every six months, major releases every three years, and we have held to that. We delivered 816 months after we delivered eight. And now you saw last week we delivered eight dot too. Um, this is what it means for us to stand by our world and be dependable as an operating system. And the beauty of the subscription with well is that if you're a customer and you're running REL seven, particularly in times right now, it's It's not that easy to get into your data center, perhaps. And so if you don't choose to update to eight now, you can stay on seven until that time works. That's to me. That's part of the beauty and the flexibility of the subscription model. We have course want to continue to bring your new capabilities and new features. But the subscription Our goal is to have a value subscription that you can you can get the most value from No matter when you decide to upgrade or no forward with, uh, with a different releases, we have >>Well, you can go. And congratulations on keeping the releases going on schedule. One of the nice things about open source is we can see the roadmap out there. You've made this Ah, this promise and you're keeping to it. So ah is you said the announcements we made has been talked about in the keynote. So give us a couple of highlights. Says what people to be looking at and looking to learn more when they dig into a thought to >>Yeah, great. So we really wanted to stick with a few key >>messages with it, and they do really tie to How do we help you run your business? And how do we help you grow your business? It's one thing that we announced and what we pivoted to, um, with the eight dot io is we >>really moved to? How do we How do we >>deliver what we called an intelligent OS, which means an OS that helps you bridge the gap and brings more value to you in your data center than you got before? One of the key aspects to this was adding in the capability of red hat insights, and we added insights capability into every single rail subscription that is under current support. So whether or not you moved to relate whether you have real seven, if you have a supported version of real six, all of those had insights added to it, and what insights is is a as a service on cloud at red hat dot com and link up your servers, and >>it will give you insight >>into operational capability. Is it configured correctly is it could be optimized for better performance. Where are you on your C V E updates and what it does is take all that knowledge that Red Hat has from all the support cases and things that we're seeing what's happening in the industry, what we're seeing other customers have, and we can even proactively help customers. The feedback on this capability has been huge. In fact, you'll see in the announcement last week we've added a lot of new capabilities into this specifically For that reason we've had customers, you know, it's like having it's like having more ops people on my team because I'm getting this input in directly from Red Hat for things to look at. And so that, to me, was probably one of the key aspects that, as we look from going to eight into eight dot too, how do we build up that capability? And of course, last week you saw we added a lot to that, and I think now more than ever, we want to make sure that everyone who has a real subscription is getting the most value out of that and I think insights is one of the places where if you have a subscription and, um, you can value or you can get more value from operational help, insights is a place where we want to help you. Um, we everything we had prior we have now bucket sized into a capability and insights called advisor is really about performance, stability and security and doing an analysis for you. We've added a new capabilities around vulnerability, Right. How do you re mediate common vulnerabilities and exposures, compliance aspect, patch aspect policies and drift? Um, kind of all of those we've now bucket it in into that insights capability. So this friends a lot more value to something that we have already seen. Customers say, You know, we didn't expect to get this amount of input and continuous growth because we constantly add new new rules into that engine. And so you know what? What we what we knew yesterday will be what we know tomorrow, and we look forward to sharing with that with everyone >>who has a subscription. So this is >>a place where I think it's ah, it's an important place for folks to look, particularly now because operational efficiency is really key. And security is really we have a lot of capabilities in both. What? Yes, Please, >>please, please, go ahead. Now, >>one other aspect on that that I wanted to mention >>was we also added a capability called subscription watch and subscription Watch helps you get a very simple, clean view of all the subscriptions you have and where they're running. And that was one thing that we saw. Customers say there was friction. And how do I know where my entitlements are? How I'm using them across my entire enterprise Corruption watch can help with that. So, um, this sort of cloud dot red hat dot com capability that we can assist with and is already part of your subscription. These are the kinds of things that we really want to help augment this to make Really intelligent os for the enterprise. >>Yeah. Stuff Stephanie. The comment I was gonna make is there's certain shows that I go to that every year. You go to it, You say Okay, it's a little bit bigger. They announce something. They made some progress on it. What has impressed me most about going to the red Hat show year after year is really the the growth of the of the portfolio, if you will. So when I first started going to it, it was, you know, a lot of the people there were, you know, the hard core Linux people. Um And then, you know, there's some storage people, some networking people is cloud containers really grew. It really blossomed into this really robust ecosystem. Oh, and growth there. So would love just to get your viewpoint on, you know, the skill set because, you know, I'm sure there's plenty of companies out there that are like, Well, you know, I've got some people that are, you know, my limits people, and they do things that aren't there. But, you know, how do you see kind of the skill set and what what Red Hat's doing really permeating more and more of, of companies, day to day activity. >>I think one of the things that I'm >>most proud of is even since last year's all the deeper collaborations we have between the various product lines. Certainly we'll talk with Joe Fitzgerald, and he and I work together very closely. Capabilities like insights. How do we add answerable capabilities directly into real. And what that does is really help. I think in any customer today, skills is probably one of the biggest concerns that they have. How do they grow those skills? How do they help folks grow and learn more and progress into the innovation areas? But clearly they still need their their mission critical applications to run and how do they span that? And I think what we're really trying to do is be able to bring the strength of the portfolio together to help a customer have more flexibility in how they leverage their skills and how they grow their skills. >>Because I think coming back to >>that statement that that you made earlier it's not just about technology. It's about how, if >>you really want to be, have agile, it's about >>how a company has organized. And I think we're hoping that we bring together the strength of the portfolio so that a customer is able todo leverage their organization and leverage their skills and the best way possible. I think another place where we worked hard on eight dot too. Some similar lines of bridging the portfolio was, you know, we announced back in eight dot io. We were putting container ization tools directly in Terrell with build a pod made in scope e 08 dot too. We brought in the newest versions of Scope EO and Build Up. In fact, in tech preview, you get containerized versions of those, and so we're continuing to add. What we are seeing is the container ization is a journey for customers. Many customers just want to deploy a single container on a server. Or they were. They want to deploy a single container in a VM Um, they're not ready for orchestration. We wanted to put the tools in so that a customer could do that on REHL. Get started, get those containers deployed on REHL. Put those tools directly, and we added it to old protocol, which is a tool built for security. It brings that security of SC Lennox and brings that up and adds value at the container level. It's those kinds of things as you see the bridge from well into open shift. How do we help a customer rich? That skill journey as well along that path and I think right now in kubernetes and Containers skills is a is a big, big area of focus, so the more we can help ease that across the portfolio and bring those things together is really important. And I know we're working very closely with the chefs in the, um and the team there in order to help bridge that. >>Excellent. Stephanie, I just want to give you the last word. We talked a lot about the ongoing journey that customers are going through. So give us your final take away as to how customers should be thinking about red hat in general and role specifically as their journey goes forward. >>I think I think one of the things >>we're very proud of here at Red Hat is that we always, particularly in the open source communities with our customers, with our partners, we want to roll up our sleeves and help, and that's we want. So, developer, we wanna work upstream with you. It's one of the things we're very proud of, and now, particularly in this time it's We want to make sure that folks understand we're here to help, and we want to make sure that you're getting the most out of the subscriptions you have, Um, and we help. We help you on that journey both to get the most out of you can out of your data center today. But also be ready for the innovation that you want to consume going forward. And we're collectively working across red Hat in order to make that happen. But it's, um >>even though this is different and it's there the virtual Experience edition of Red Hat Summit. It's >>great to be together and be able to share the whole message. >>Well, Stephanie, the open source community is definitely used to collaborating remotely. So thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to see you. And we would hope to talk again soon. >>Great to see you too. Thank you for the time. >>Alright. You're watching the Cube's coverage of Red Hat Summit 2020 digitally with remote guests from around the globe. Instrument a man and thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>from San Francisco. It's the queue covering our essay conference. 2020. San Francisco Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media's >>Welcome Back Around Here at the Cube. Coverage for our conference. Mosconi, South Floor. Bring you all the action day one of three days of cube coverage where the security game is changing, the big players are making big announcements. The market's changing from on premise to cloud. Then hybrid Multi cloud was seeing that wave coming. A great guest here. Barr, our VP of product strategy and co founder of the Mystery, was acquired by Palo Alto Networks. Worries employed now, Rishi. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Absolutely happy to be here. So, first of all, great journey for your company. Closed a year ago. Half a 1,000,000,000. Roughly give or take 60. Congratulations. Thank you. Big accomplishments. You guys were taken out right in the growth phase. Now at Palo Alto Networks, which we've been following, you know, very careful. You got a new CMO over there, Jean English? No, we're very well. We're very bullish on Palo Alto. Even though that the on premise transitions happening cloud. You guys are well positioned. How's things going things are going fantastic. We're investing a lot in the next Gen security business across the board, as mentioned Prisma Cloud is big business. And then on the other side, which is what I'm part of the cortex family focused on the Security operations center and the efficiencies That's fantastic and, ah, lot off product innovations, investment and the customer pull from an operations perspective. So very excited. You guys had a big announcement on Monday, and then yesterday was the earnings, which really kind of points to the trend that we're seeing, which is the wave to the cloud, which you're well positioned for this transition going on. I want to get to the news first. Then we get into some of the macro industry questions you guys announced the X ore, which is redefining orchestration. Yes. What is this about? What's this news about? Tell us. >> So this news is about Mr was acquired about a year ago as well. This is taking that Mr Platform and expanding it on, expanding it to include a very core piece, which is Intel management. If you look at a traditional saw, what has happened is soccer teams have had the same dead and over the last few years acquired a sword platform such as a mystery security orchestration, automation and response platform. But the Edge Intel team has always been still separate the threat Intel feeds that came in with separate. With this, we are expanding the power of automation and applying doc to the threat intelligence as well. That is, thread intelligence, current state of the art right now. So the current state of the art of threat intelligence is are the larger organizations typically subscribe to a lot of faith, feeds open source feeds and aggregate them. But the challenge is to aggregate them the sit in a repository and nobody knows what to do with them. So the operationalization of those feeds is completely missing. >> So basically, that is going to have data pile. Corpus is sitting there. No one touches it, and then everyone has to. It's a heavy lift. It's a heavy lift, and nobody knows. Cisco sees the value coming out of it. How do you proactively hunt using those? How do you put them to protecting proactively to explain cortex X, or what is it? And what's the value? So the cortex X or as a platform. There are four core pieces, three off which for the core tenants of the misto since the big one is automation and orchestration. So today we roughly integrate with close to 400 different products security and I t products. Why are the FBI on let customers build these work flows come out of the box with close to 80 or 90 different workloads. The idea of these workloads is being able to connect to one product for the data go to another taken action there Automation, orchestration builds a visual book second s case management and this is very critical, right? I mean, if you look at the process side of security, we have never focused as an industry and the process and the human side of security. So how do you make sure every security alert on the process the case management escalation sl A's are all managed. So that's a second piece off cortex. Third collaboration. One of the core tenants of Mr Waas. We heard from customers that analysts do not talk to each other effectively on when they do. Nobody captures that knowledge. So the misto has an inbuilt boardroom which now Cortex X or has the collaboration war room on that is now available to be able to chat among analysts. But not only that charged with the board take actions. The fourth piece, which is the new expanded platform, is the personal management to be able to now use the power of orchestration, automation collaboration, all for threat intelligence feeds as well. Not only the alerts >> so and so you're adding in the threat. Intelligence feeds, yes. So is that visualize ai on the machine Learning on that? How is that being process in real time? How does that on demand work for that fills. So the biggest piece is applying the automation and intelligence to automatically score that on being able to customize the scoring the customer's needs. Customized confidence score perfect. And once you have the high fidelity indicators automatically go block them as an example. If you get a very high fidelity IOC from FBI that this particular domain is the militias domain, you would want to block that in. Your firewall is executed immediately, and that is not happening today. That is the core, and that's because of the constraint is I don't know the data the way we don't know the data and it's manual. Some human needs to review it. Some human needs to go just not being surfaced, just not. So let's get back into some of the human piece. I love the collaboration piece. One of things that I hear all the time in my cube interviews across all the hundreds of events we go to is the human component you mentioned. Yes, people have burnt out. I mean, like the security guys. I mean, the joke was CIOs have good days once in a while, CSOs don't have any good days, and it's kind of a job board pejorative to that. But that's the reality. Is that it works? Yes. We actually okay, if you have another job. Talking of jokes, we have this. Which is what do you call and overwork security analyst. A security analyst, because every one of them >>is over word. >>So this is a huge thing. So, like the ai and some of the predictive analytics trend Is tourist personalization towards the analyst Exactly. This is a trend that we're seeing. What's your view on this? What? You're absolutely We're seeing that trend which is How do you make sure analyst gets to see the data they're supposed to see at the right time? Right. So there's one aspect is what do you bring up to the analyst? What is relevant and you bring it up at the right time to be able to use it. Respond with that. So that comes in one from an ML perspective and machine learning. And our cortex. XDR suite of products actually does a fantastic job of bringing very rich data to the analyst at the right time. And then the second is, can we help analyst respond to it? Can we take the repetitive work away from them with a playbook approach? And that's what the cortex platform brings to that. I love to riff on some future scenarios kind of. I won't say sci fi, but I got to roll a little bit of a future to me. I think security has to get to like a multi player gaming environment because imagine like a first person shooter game, you know where or a collaborative game where it's fun. Because once you start that collaboration, yes, then you're gonna have some are oi around. I saw that already. Don't waste your time or you get to know people. So sharing has been a big part? Yes. How soon do you think we're gonna get to an environment where I won't say like gaming? But that notion of a headset on I got some data. I know you are your reputation. I think your armor, you're you're certifications. Metaphorically putting. I think way have a lot of these aspects and I think it's a very critical point. You mentioned right one of the things which we call the virtual war room and like sex or I was pointing out the fact that you can have analysts sit in front of a collaboration war room not only charge for the appears but charged with a boat to go take care of. This is equivalent to remember that matrix movie plugging and says, you know how to fly this helicopter data and now I do. That's exactly what it is. I think we need to point move to a point where, no matter what the security tool is what your endpoint is, you should not have to learn every endpoint every time the normalization off, running those commands via the collaboration War Room should be dead. I would say we're starting to see in some of the customers are topics or they're using the collaboration war room to run those commands intractably, I would say, though, there's a big challenge. Security vendors do not do a good job normalizing that data, and that is where we're trying to reach you. First of all, you get the award for bringing up a matrix quote in The Cube interview. So props to that. So you have blue teams. Red teams picked the pill. I mean, people are people picking their teams. You know what's what's going on. How do you see the whole Red Team Blue team thing happening? I think that's a really good stuff happening. In my opinion, John, what's going on is right now so far, if you see if I go back three years our adversaries were are committing. Then we started to see this trend off red teaming automation with beach automation and bunch of companies starting to >>do that >>with Cortex X or on similar products, we're starting to now automate the blue team side of things, which is how do you automatically respond how do you protect yourself? How do you put the response framework back there? I think the next day and I'm starting to see is these things coming together into a unified platform where the blue team and the team are part of the same umbrella. They're sharing the data. They're sharing the information on the threat Intel chair. So I see we are a very, very good part. Of course, the adversities. I'm not gonna sit idle like you said about the Dev ops mindset. Heavens, notion of knowledge coming your way and having sharing packages all baked out for you. She doesn't do the heavy lifting. That's really the problem. The data is a problem. So much demand so much off it. And you don't know what is good and what is not. Great. Great conversation again. The Matrix reference about your journey. You've been an entrepreneur and sold. You had a great exit again. Politics is world class blue chip company in the industry public going through a transition. What's it like from an entrepreneur now to the big company? What's the opportunity is amazing. I think journey has been very quick. One. We saw some crazy growth with the misto on. Even after the acquisition, it's been incredibly fast pace. It's very interesting lot of one of the doctors like, Hey, you must be no resting is like, No, the journey is amazing. I think he s Polito Networks fundamentally believe that. We need to know where it really, really fast to keep the adversaries out on. But that's been the journey. Um, and we have accelerated, in fact, some of our product plans that we hard as a start up on delivering much faster. So the journey has been incredible, and we have been seeing that growth Will they picked you guys write up? There's no vesting interesting going on when you guys were on the uphill on the upslope growth and certainly relevance for Palo Alto. So clearly, you know, you haven't fun. People vested arrest when they checked out, You guys look like you're doing good. So I got to ask you the question that when you started, what was the original mission? Where is it now? I mean this Is there any deviation? What's been the kind? Of course you know, this is very, very relevant questions. It's very interesting. Right after the acquisition, we went and looked at a pitch deck, which we presented overseas in mid 2015. Believe it or not, the mission has not changed, not changing iron. It had the same competent off. How do you make the life off a security person? A security analyst? Easy. It's all the same mission by automating more by applying AI and learning to help them further by letting them collaborate. All the aspects off case management process, collaboration, automation. It's not changed. That's actually very powerful, because if you're on the same mission, of course you're adding more and more capabilities. But we're still on the same path on going on that. So every company's got their own little nuanced. Moore's Law for Intel. What made you guys successful was that the culture of Dev ops? It sounds like you guys had a certain either it was cut in grain. I think I would say, by the way, making things easy. But you got to do it. You got to stay the course. What was that? I think that's a fundamental cultural feature. Yeah, there's one thing really stand by, and I actually tweeted about a few weeks ago, this which is every idea, is as good as good as its execution. So there's two things between really focus on which is customer focused on. We were really, really portable about customer needs to get the product needs to use the product, customer focus and execution. As we heard the customers loud and clear, every small better. And that's what we also did. You guys have this agile mindset as well, absolutely agile mindset and the development that comes with the customer focus because way kind of these micro payments customer wants this like, why do they want this? What is the end goal? Attributed learner. Move on to make a decision making line was on Web services Way debate argue align! Go Then go. And then once you said we see great success story again Startup right out of the gate 2015. Acquire a couple years later, conventions you and your team and looking forward to seeing your next Palo Alto Networks event. Or thanks for coming on. Great insight here on the cube coverage. I'm John Furrier here on the ground floor of our S e commerce on Mosconi getting all the signal extracting it from the noise here on the Cube. Thanks for watching. >>Yeah, yeah,

>>buy from San Francisco. It's the queue covering our essay conference 2020. San Francisco Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media >>Hey, welcome back here. Ready? Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're in downtown San Francisco. It is absolutely spectacular. Day outside. I'm not sure why were incited. Mosconi. That's where we are. It's the RCC conference, I think 50,000 people the biggest security conference in the world here in Mosconi this week. We've been here, wall to wall coverage. We'll be here all the way till Thursday. So thanks for joining us. We're excited to have our next guest. He's got a lot of great data to share, so let's jump into it. It's hard mode. He's a VP engineering threat and mitigation products for nets. Cowhearted. Great to meet you. >>Thank you. Good to be here, >>too. So for people who aren't familiar with Net Scout, give em kind of the basic overview. What do you guys all about? Yes, and that's what we consider >>ourselves their guardians of the connected world. And so our job is to protect, like, you know, companies, enterprises, service providers, anybody who has on the Internet and help keep their services running your applications and things returned deliver to your customers would make sure that it's up there performing to, like, you know the way you want them to, but also kind of give you visibility and protect you against DDOS attacks on other kind of security threats. That's basically in a nutshell. What we do as a company and, yeah, wear the garden of connected world. >>So So I just from a vendor point of the I always I feel so sorry for >>buyers in this environment because you walk around. I don't know how many vendors are in here. A lot of >>big boost, little boost. So how do you kind of help separate? >>You know, Netsch out from the noise? How what's your guys? Secret sauce? What's your kind of special things? >>Really, it's like 30 years >>off investment in like, network based visibility, and >>we truly >>believe in the network. Our CEO, he says, like you know the network like, you know, actually, when you monitor the network, it's like taking a blood test. It tells you the truth, right? And it's really like how you find out, like, you know, some things right or wrong. I mean, I actually, for my background to like network monitoring. There's a lot of our what we think of as like the endpoint is actually contested territory. That's where the adversary is. When you're on the network and your monitoring all activity, it really gives you a vantage point. You know, that's >>really special. So we really focus on the network. Our heritage and the network is is one of our key strengths and then, you know, as part of >>us as a company like Arbor Arbor. Networks with coming in that's got acquired some years ago were very much part of Net Scout with our brand of products. Part of that, you know, the Arbor legacy includes huge visibility into what's happening across the Internet and visibility like nobody else like in terms of the number of service providers and large enterprises who work with us, help us understand what's happening across the landscape. That's like nobody else out here. And that is what we consider a key differentiator. >>Okay, great. So one of the things you guys do >>a couple times years, I understand his publisher reporting solution, gift people. Some information as to what's going on. So we've got the We've >>got the version over four here. Right Net scout threat, intelligence report. So you said this comes out twice a year, twice a year. So what is the latest giving some scoop >>here, Hot off the presses we published last week. Okay, so it's really just a few days old and, you know, our focus here is what happened in the last six months of last year. So that and then what we do is we compare it against data that we've collected a year prior. >>So really a few things >>that we want you to remember if you're on the right, you know, the first number is 8.4 million. That's the number of D DOS attacks that >>we saw. This doesn't mean that >>we've seen every attack, you know, in the world, but that's like, you know just how many DDOS attacks we saw through the eyes of our customers. That's >>in this in six months. 8.4 number is >>actually for the entire year here in an entire year of 2019. There's a little bit of seasonality to it. So if you think of it like a 4.4, maybe something that that was the second half of the year. But that's where I want to start. That's just how many DDOS attacks we observed. And so, in the >>course of the report, what we can do a >>slice and dice that number talk about, like, different sizes, like, what are we seeing? Between zero and 100 gigabits per 2nd 102 104 100 above and >>kind of give you a sense of just what kind of this separation there is who is being targeted >>like we had a very broad level, like in some of the verticals and geographies. We kind of lay out this number and give you like, a lot of contact. So if you're if you're in finance and you're in the UK, you want to know like, Hey, what happened? What happened in Europe, for example, In the past 66 months, we have that data right, and we've got to give you that awareness of what's happening now. The second number I want you to remember is seven seven or the number of new attack vectors reflection application attack vectors that we observed being used widely in in in the second half. >>Seven new 17 new ones. So that now kind of brings our tally >>up to 31 like that. We have those listed out in here. We talk about >>just how much? Uh huh. Really? Just how many of these vectors, how they're used. Also, these each of these vectors >>leverage vulnerabilities in devices that are deployed across the Internet. So we kind of laid out like, you know, just how many of them are out there. But that's like, You know that to us seven is reflecting how the adversary is innovating. They're looking for new ways to attack us. They've found 71 last year. They're going to war, right? Right. And that's that's kind of what we focus on. >>Let's go back to the 8.4. So of those 8.4 million, how many would you declare >>successful from the attacker point of view? >>Yeah, You know something that this is always >>like, you know, you know, it's difficult to go estimate precisely or kind of get within some level of >>precision. I think that you know, the the adversaries, always trying to >>of course, they love to deliver a knockout blow and like all your services down but even like every attack inflicts a cost right and the cost is whether it's, you know, it's made its way all the way through to the end target. And now you know, they're using more network and computing resource is just to kind of keep their services going while they're under attack. The attack is low, You're still kind of you. You're still paying that cost or, you know, the cost of paid upstream by maybe the service provider. Somebody was defending your network for you. So that way, like, you know, there's like there's a cost to every one of these, right? In >>terms of like outages. I should also point out that the attacks that you might think >>that this attack is like, you know, hey, you know, there was a specific victim and that victim suffered as a result of but >>in many cases, the adversaries going after people who are providing services to others. So I mean, if a Turkish bank >>goes down right, like, you know, our cannot like services, customers for a month are maybe even a few hours, right, And you know, the number of victims in this case is fairly broad. Might be one attacks that might be one target, however, like the impact is fairly, >>is very large. What's interesting is, have begs a question. Kind of. How do you >>define success or failure from both the attacker's point of view as well as the defender? >>Yeah, I mean, I mean and again, like there's a lot of conversation in the industry about for every attack, right? Any kind of attack. What? When do I say that? You know what? I was ready for it. And, you know, I was I was fine. I mean, I don't care about, you know, ultimately, there's a cost to each of these things. I'd say that everybody kind of comes at it with their You know, if you're a bank, that you might go. Okay. You know what? If my if I'm paying a little bit extra to keep the service up and running while the Attackers coming at me, No problem. If I if my customers air aren't able to log in, some subset of my customers aren't able to log in. Maybe I can live through that. A large number of my customers can't log in. That's actually a really big problem. And if it's sustained, then you make your way into the media or you're forced to report to the government by like, outages are like, You know, maybe, you know, you have to go to your board and go like a sorry, right? Something just happened. >>But are the escalation procedures >>in the definition of consistency? Right? Getting banged all the time right? And there's something like you said, there's some disruption at some level before it fires off triggers and remediation. So so is there some level of okay, that's kind of a cost of doing business versus, you know, we caught it at this. They're kind of like escalation points that define kind of very short of a full line. >>I think when we talk to our service provider customers, we talked to the very large kind of critical enterprises. They tend to be more methodical about how they think of like, Okay, you know, degradation of the service right now, relative to the attack. I think I think for a lot of people, it's like in the eyes of the beholder. Here's Here's something. Here's an S L. A. That I missed the result of the attack at that point. Like you know, I have, I certainly have a failure, but, you know, it's it's up until there is kind of like, Okay, you're right >>in the eyes the attacker to delay service >>at the at the Turkish bank because now their teams operate twice, twice the duration per transaction. Is it? Just holding for ransom is what benefit it raises. A range >>of motivations is basically the full range of human nature. There's They're certainly like we still see attacks that are straight journalism. I just I just cause I could just I wanted I wanted to write. I wanted to show my friend like, you know, that I could do this. There's there's definitely a lot of attacks that have that are like, you know, Hey, I'm a gamer and I'm like, you know, there's I know that person I'm competing with is coming from this I p address. Let me let me bombard them with >>an attack. And you know, there's a huge kind of it could be >>a lot of collateral damage along the way because, you know, you think you're going after this one person in their house. But actually, if you're taking out the network upstream and there's a lot of other people that are on that network, like you know, there's certain competitive element to it. They're definitely from time to time. There are extortion campaigns pay up or we'll do this again right in some parts of the world, like in the way we think of it. It's like cost of doing business. You are almost like a business dispute resolution. You better be. You know, you better settle my invoice or like I'm about, Maybe maybe I'll try and uses take you out crazy. Yeah, >>it, Jeff. I mean things >>like, you know the way talked about this in previous reports, and it's still true. There's especially with d dos. There's what we think of it, like a democratization off the off the attack tools where you don't have to be technical right. You don't have to have a lot of knowledge, you know, their services available. You know, like here's who I'm going to the market by the booth, so I'd like to go after and, you know, here's my $50 or like a big point equivalent. All right, >>let's jump to >>the seven. We talked about 8.4 and the seven new attack vectors and you outline, You know, I think, uh, the top level themes I took from the summary, right? Weaponizing new attack vectors, leveraging mobile hot spots targeting compromised in point >>about the end points. I o t is >>like all the rage people have mess and five G's just rolling out, which is going to see this huge i o t expansion, especially in industrial and all these connected devices and factories in from that power people. How are people protecting those differently now, as we're getting to this kind of exponential curve of the deployment of all these devices, >>I mean, there are a lot of serious people thinking about how to protect individual devices, but infrastructure and large. So I'm not gonna go like, Hey, it's all bad, right? Is plenty back on it all to be the next number, like 17 and 17 as the number of architectures for which Amir, I mean, I was really popular, like in a bar right from a few years ago. That still exists. But over time, what's happened is people have reported Mirai to different architectures so that, you know, think of it like, you know, if you have your your refrigerator connected to the Internet, it comes. It's coming with a little board, has CPU on it like >>running a little OS >>runs and runs in the West on it. Well, there's a Mirai variant ready for that. Essentially, as new devices are getting deployed like, you know, there's, you know, that's kind of our observation that there's even as new CPUs are introduced, a new chips or even the West they're introduced. There's somebody out there. We're ready to port it to that very now, Like, you know, the next level challenges that these devices, you know, they don't often get upgraded. There's no real. In many cases, they're not like, you know, there's very little thought given to really kind of security around it. Right? There are back doors and, like default passwords used on a lot of them. And so you take this combination. I have a whole you know, we talk about, you know, large deployments of devices every year. So you have these large deployments and now, you know, bought is just waiting for ready for it Now again, I will say that it's not. It's not all bad, but there are serious people who were thinking about this and their devices that are deployed on private networks. From the get go, there was a VPN tunnel back to a particular control point that the the commercial vendor operates. I mean, there are things like that, like, hardening that people have done right, So not every device is gonna find its way into a botnet. However, like, you know, you feel like you're getting a toy like Christmas and against $20 you know, and it can connect to the Internet. The odds are nobody's >>thinking not well. The thing we've heard, too, about kind of down the i t and kind of bringing of operations technology and I t is. A lot of those devices weren't developed for upgrades and patches, and Lord knows what Os is running underneath the covers was a single kind of use device. It wasn't really ever going to be connected to the outside world. But now you're connecting with the I t. Suddenly exposing a whole host of issues that were never kind of part of the plan when whoever designed that thing in the first place for sure for sure is crazy. Alright, so that's that. Carpet bombing tactics, increased sector attack, availability. What is there's carpet bomb and carpet bombing generally? What's going on in this space? >>Well, so carpet bombing is a term that we applied a few years ago to a kind of a variation of attack which, like >>traditionally, you know, we see an attack >>against a specific I P address or a specific domain, right? That's that's where that's what I'm targeting. Carpet bombing is taking a range of API's and go like, you know, hey, almost like cycling through every single one of them. So you're so if your filters, if your defense is based on Hey, if my one server sees a spike, let me let me block traffic while now you're actually not seeing enough of a spike on an individual I p. But across a range there's a huge you know, there's a lot of traffic that you're gonna be. >>So this is kind of like trips people >>up from time to time, like are we certainly have defensive built for it. But >>now what? We're you know, it's it's really like what we're seeing is the use >>off Muehr, our other known vectors. We're not like, Okay, C l dap is a protocol feel that we see we see attacks, sealed up attacks all the time. Now what we're >>seeing is like C l >>dap with carpet bombing. Now we're seeing, like, even other other reflection application protocols, which the attack isn't like an individual system, but instead the range. And so that's that's what has changed. Way saw a lot of like, you know, TCP kind of reflection attacks, TCP reflection attacks last year. And then and then the novelty was that Now, like okay, alongside that is the technique, right? Carpet bombing technique. That's that's a pipe >>amounts never stops right? Right hard. We're out of time. I give you the final word. One. Where can people go get the information in this report? And more importantly, for people that aren't part of our is a matter that you know kind of observers or they want to be more spark. How should they be thinking about security when this thing is such a rapidly evolving space? >>So let me give you two resource is really quickly. There's this this >>report available Dub dub dub dub dot com slash threat report. That's that's that's what That's where this report is available on Google Next Threat report and you'll find your way there. We've also, you know, we made another platform available that gives you more continuous visibility into the landscape. So if you read this and like Okay, what's happening now? Then you would go to what we call Met Scout Cyber Threat Horizon. So that's >>kind of tell you >>what's happening over the horizon. It's not just like, you know, Hey, what's what am I seeing? What are people like me seeing maybe other people other elsewhere in the world scene. So that's like the next dot com slash horizon. Okay, to find >>that. And I think like between those two, resource is you get >>access to all of our visibility and then, you know, really, in terms of like, our focus is not just to drive awareness, but all of this knowledge is being built into our products. So the Net's got like arbor line of products. We're continually innovating and evolving and driving like more intelligence into them, right? That's that's really? How We help protect our customers. Right >>hearted. Thanks for taking a few minutes >>and sharing the story. Thank you. 18 Scary. But I'm glad you said it's not all bad. So that's good. >>Alright, he started. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. We're at the RSA conference 2020 >>Mosconi. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> from Burlingame, California It's the Cube covering Suma logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to You by Sumer Logic >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jefe Rick here with the cue, We're at the higher Regency San Francisco airport. Here. It's Suma logic. Illuminate 2019. It's our second year here, the third year of the show. I think it's about 1000 people that Kino was packed. A lot of great energy, a lot of good community as we see a lot of these smaller show, especially when they're getting started. It's all about community is a lot of sharing of information. It's a really cool time in the life of these companies. Worksite have our next guest slightly irreverent cool culture will dig into it a little bit with Justin bike. Oh, he is the co founder of Expelled Justin Creek to see >> likewise. Thanks for Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. So give us the give us a rundown expel what you guys all about. >> So in a nutshell, were a 24 73 65 transparent, manage security provider. What that really means is on a 24 hours a day, seven days a week basis. We're looking for you know, signs. They're bad guys inside your environment. If they're there, we're gonna tell you they're they're gonna tell you what they're up to and help you get >> rid of them. Now, the transparent word comes up time and time again, Looking at some of your guys materials that transparent in terms of we can see inside the black box and how you're operating is that transparent. Like we're just going to tell you and show you what transparency is Obviously a really important piece of your messaging. >> Yeah, kind of all of the above. We try to take it to heart and try to really mean it. I think the easiest way to think about it is we want our customers to feel like we're just another part of their team. Right. And the easiest way for us to do that is to let them be a part of what we do on a day in and day out basis. That means if they want a ride shotgun with us when we're working an incident, they can They can watch everything that we do. Watch the investigation unfold in real time if they want to get in there and work with us. They certainly have the ability to do that. And then, you know, we take transparency pretty far. We put our real actual prices on our website, which is not something you see a lot of security companies do. So we just try to be as up front as we can be in the way that we approach dealing with our customers and working with him over time. >> Right? So we we cover our say, we've been covering our safe forever. It's it's 40,000 people at Mosconi. Few is more vendors than you can count, all talking about security. So, you know, you're in the year in the business and then remain in his keynote, put up a security section, had a whole bunch of companies. How did people sort this? I always think of the poor CEO on the other side is being told, you know, you got a big security in every place. You've gotta have a B A B Y o d was using their own iPhones and now we got I t With all these connected devices, the threat surfaces expanding geometrically. How should people think about security? How do you guys play in this kind of morass of complexity. >> You know, it's an interesting question how people deal with it. I think that's why you're starting to see a lot of these really strong in a lot of cases, sort of regional and local see. So groups start to form right because they want to get together and actually talk about a. I'm dealing with this challenge. What do you do and how are you handling this problem? And the only way to do that is to learn from appears, right. Everybody's in this fight together. As for how we fit in, one of the things that we try to do is help customers who have made a lot of investments in a lot of different security technology make sense of it. All right, so you've got 56789 10 20 pieces of security technology. They're deployed there, all blinking red lights of like, Hey, this might be a threat. This might be an intruder inside your infrastructure, and you've got a handful of people that work Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 ish. Somebody's gotta look at that all day long, and that's what we're there for. So our job is to make space for our customers, to do the things they actually love about security instead of just sitting there trying to keep up with a constant, you know, basically overflow of alert. >> Right? And you guys are socking the service. Is that Is that a hard sell? Is that easy sell to people? Understand? They need kind of the augmentation. How does that how does that go over with the customer? It has >> been, I think it's over the years it's become, I think, an easier thing for people to wrap their head around. Because at the end of the day, everybody is infrastructure to grow and write. Their footprint of what they need to protect is growing. They can't. Still, nobody can hire enough people that they need. That's a pervasive problem. It's a top five c. So problem has been for you will never go for a long time. So you've got all this security technology. You get the whole network instrument and then suddenly the business moves to the cloud. You have two instrument that too, and you have to do it using the team that you've gotten. That's not enough people And so what choice do you really have? You need somebody to come in and help provide that 24 7 coverage. There's certain things that your security at the institute, that on Lee be done from inside the business. Right things. They remove your program forward, let your team focus on that and all the stuff around monitoring technology to look for signs. They're bad guys in the environment. Let a provider like expel, help you out, >> right? So let me get your take on kind of the explosion of data. But both the quantity of the date as well as the sources of the data, as well as the structure of the date or the lack of structure in a lot of this data, it's growing exponentially right in people. And we all have our time kind of wrapping our heads around exponential growth, one of the kind of the fundamental problems that we have from your point of view, as you see this and you see your customer struggling with it and interests. Other kind of dichotomy is, Is it? Is it is it Is it asset? Of course, there's a lot of good stuff in there hopefully, But it's also liability because it's expensive. It's expensive. The hold. It's expensive to move. It's expensive to store. How do you help people deal with Keep it secure in this explosion of data environment that we are. >> You know, if there were a silver bullet, answer that question, we'd probably be the only security company in existence. >> They would be on a boat >> in >> the Caribbean or >> something like that, you know, being able to apply the technology that we're, you know, that we can bring to bear, which helps our analysts take all of these different disparate data sources. So we can take your I d. S. We can take your e t r. We can take your cloud control platform, your cloud control plane like an aws cloudwatch cloudtrail all that sort of stuff, bring it in one place, makes sense of it, put it together in a way that contextualized is it against what we know about your business. That's ah, whole lot of the battle right there is just being able to help somebody sort of understand what's going on. What does it mean to my business? What do I do about it? What do I do next on? If you can free up that chunk of time, you let the customer focus on those sort of more tactful things that they need to do inside their business, which is, you know, what's the next big evolution of security inside? You know our company, >> right? The word assume a logic fit in for you guys were here, obviously at the sumo logic event. And you know, the scale of the complexity of this stuff is getting beyond the ability of a human keep track of quite frankly. So there's got to be some automation. There's got to be tools. Even though you guys were transparent, there's just there's just some things I can't look into. How are using similar logic? How's it helping you do your business? You >> know, our partnership with Suma Logic came about actually from our 1st 2 customers who are actually symbolize your customers. And so they're sending all of their infrastructure data. They're sending all their security data and assume a logic, and they came to us and they said all that it is there. If you want to monitor our infrastructure, start there right on our ability because it lives in the cloud. There's no sort of management for the customer to do our villages plug right into that and immediately, like within an hour, to start getting security value out of what the customer has inside Suma Logic is, it's pretty substantial to be able to just start immediately telling him, giving him visibility into what's going on. So that's kind of how the relationship came about and how we worked with him today is we find that again. A lot of our customers have just a ton of data, security or otherwise that they need to store. They need to do it in a place that's going to scale with, um, so your traditional on Crim. You know, it's like a more old school Sim. We just gotta keep buying drives and buying drives and buying more and more places to store things. It's a tough life, right? So Cloud hosted platform, like Suma Logic lets you continue to scale, lets you quickly and easily search that they didn't do it in a reasonably cost effective way. It's a great way for us to work with customers. You don't have any visibility today. We know the folks over assume a logic really well, it's super easy to get up and running and get it up really quickly. It's easy for us to plug into. We can get you visibility in your environment really, really fast. If you don't have any today, >> so is that enabled you to bring a different scale of data to bear on your analytics is too. We know there's bad guys in there. You know how fast you can find him and shut him down to take action? >> I think so. Because of the way the technology with Suma logic scales that lets customers send more data, then they may have otherwise ordinarily sent toe like a more traditional Sam or something like that on what that does is that gives us more data to look at when we have more today to look at. We have more visibility and what's going on the customer environment. We can start delivering more value to them. Tell you hey, did you know this is going on over here something you weren't previously looking at because it scales reasonably well. That's something that we can start doing for >> her just because you have a good kind of macro point of view on multiple customers and the market. I just love to get your take on now. We used to hear all the time that, you know, the time between the breach and the knowledge of a breach was like 260 days. Whatever. And we keep hearing whatever show you out. It's coming down. It's coming down, coming down, but at the same time, pretty much every day. You know, you hear about a new breech and it's it's it's, I think everybody is going to be breached, it seems like, and it's really more of a function of How fast can you find out? You know, how quickly can you can you cut down on the damage and take the action? And I wonder if you could share your thoughts of kind of, You know, I still think some people think there's a moat strategy that you can just keep people out, and it's just it's just not, >> you know, somebody who is an attacker that's determined enough there. Well, fuck. You know, they've got enough funding. We're gonna get in and think about it like your house, right? Like, but all the doors. Put all the locks on his many doors. You want as many bars on as many windows as you want. If somebody wants it badly enough and they have enough time, they have enough planning. They have enough money, they're getting in your house, right? And so what you want to do? You want to know when they get in there so that you can react pretty quickly and so sure that like you dwell time of how long before, you know, from the time the intruder got in the environment till the time they were actually discovered. You obviously don't want that to be hundreds and hundreds of days, So it is important to figure out when they're they're what have they accessed when they're in there? So you understand what risk your date is that? Where are they In your environment? And that's the kind of thing you want to make sure that you have instrumentation to be able to see quick, because you can't. There is no silver bullet. You can't just keep the attackers out. You can't say I've prevent all these prevention mechanisms in. Nobody's gonna get in, so I don't need to worry about trying to find them once they're inside. It's just not the case. It's not really. >> And have you guys built a technological answer to social manipulation for penetration? I mean, my favorite examples are the, you know, somebody calling. You know I can't get into the company softball game. Can you please click on this or another one? I heard a Vegas. A Vegas casino was breached via that. The bomb it, er in the fish tank in the lobby. That was that was a connected thermometer so the fish wouldn't die. I mean, are we are you thinking about, you know, kind of social engineering is still a really effective way to get into these places and tools to break those kind of that access. >> Yes. Oh, social engineering. Absolutely. If you look across our customer base, the incidents and our customers deal with the number one by a long shot vector for how these companies are actually getting compromised in the first place. It's fishing, right? It's ominous. Intuit e mail. And I'm gonna convince you to click on this link, or I'm gonna convince you to open this file or I'm gonna convince you to give me a password or something like that, because at the end of the day, some of these things are pretty good and it's hard to spot a fake. It's just really difficult spot a fake if it's well tailored. A lot of the security companies and I'll give credit to a lot of the infrastructure. Providers like Google have done a really good job at trying to flash warning signs. You've never received an E mail like this from this person before. You've never received an e mail from this person with an attachment. You've never received an e mail from this person with, you know, from this domain or anything like that. They're starting to get more and more sophisticated around some of those mechanisms. But at the end of the day, social engineering fishing, that is the number one vector. It's a really hard problems. All then the security industry hasn't solved yet. >> Yeah, All right, well, let's get his job security for you. Well, Justin, thanks for taking a few minutes and really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me. Alright. He's Justin. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Were Touma logic illuminate in San Francisco Hyatt Regency? Thanks for watching

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back inside the Moscow The Center. We're here, Mosconi North, Wrapping up our coverage here. Veum World 2019 Glad to have you with us here on the Cuba's. We continue our 10th year of 10th consecutive year of coverage here of the events to minimum, along with John Wall's joined now by Robin's Lee, who was director of data protection, product marketing and L E M C Rob. Good to see you, sir. >> Hey, Joan. >> So you almost want to walk to the first person I saw when I walked in the room the other day? >> You. And >> now you won't be one of the last on effort to tell Shy, Who is the director of Data protection and Cloud native APS. Adele AMC Effort. Good to see you, sir. Good to see you. Yeah, First off, let's just let's just talk about the world of data protection in general here by sucking multi and hybrid and all these things. Your world's changing a little bit, right? Because of these new environments in these new opportunities. So if you could just paint that 30,000 foot picture first off thematically, how how your world is evolving. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the key would indebted protection is data, you know, and I think that wherever it is created, and wherever it is managed, customers need to look after it. You know this? The old adage that there's only two things that customers worry about one is their employees, and two, is there data. So as we've seen the adoption of of Cloud is a A zone infrastructure model on you're starting to see many customers extend their own premises infrastructure to the cloud on using the cloud for production level applications. They realize that on often they're told, you gotta do something about your data. So that's led to all vendors and especially ourselves over the last several years, really expanding the portfolio and the capabilities that we have from a non premises centric environment to the multi class. >> Yeah, so every ah, a lot of discussion about kubernetes. Before we get into that, you've got cloud native in your title, and Rob talked about data and talk about the applications I'm hoping you can bring us inside is to you know, what's different when we're talking about cloud native applications that from a data protection standpoint, you know, what do you have to think about differently? Is it the micro Service's architecture in containers Fundamentally changed the way things are done, is it, You know, similar what we've done in the past? >> Definitely. We see customers. Some customers are taking what they head back now and they move it in tow. Cloud native infrastructures. A lot of customers are building new applications and new workloads, and they build it on top off new applications. So they basically building a whole new set off applications and infrastructure and want to combine in together and they come to us on Dad, ask us, How do I protect this? And these things spin up, spin down, move around. They have very different life cycle than the traditional applications. >> Okay, Yeah, it's funny. You know, Rob, I think back to you know, it's like tape. You know how we dealt this because of the environment versus disc versus, you know, containerized application. Buoyed by the time I want to set something up isn't that gone and things move around all over the place. It's You gotta put a different different types of environments than you need to span. All of these >> I was chatting with with every earlier, and we were talking about what? What's what's changed, kind of in the last couple of years around the deployment and usage of of kubernetes, the deployment of containers. And after he was saying that one of the most fundamental changes is the introduction of persistent volumes on a Sooners. Persistency comes into the mix. You know, that's where things start to change. And, you know, Jeffrey's phone started ringing with respect to hate. What are you doing to bring dead protection into you know, this environment? >> I think two years ago, everything was Toby stateless on then suddenly, people understand that's not enough. You need to add states some states to existing applications. And then the notion of persistent volumes came along and then customers and developers so that it's actually working quite nicely. And they started relying more and more on moving more state in tow, their applications running on containers, environments. So the first thing that customers ask us about is where I store my data. Where's the primary volume that is done by our storage folks? The next question is, how do I protect my data? And this is where we come into the picture. And we offer an architecture that is built for containers environment and takes care off that life cycle that we talked about before. Containers are coming and going. You need to protect the data and the containers, the data and the meta data together in order to bring that protection level of customers. Looks from, >> you know, as as the concerns about data protection have been elevated now and sea sweet discussions now, um has that created a different approach, or maybe a change of tone or tenor from your clients to you, because the discussions are being elevated in their own businesses. And and so there's Is there a different kind of attention being paid to this or different kinds of concerns that maybe 34 years ago? Yeah, >> I mean, it's interesting. I mean, one of things we were on every couple of years is a ah, global study. We called it the Global Day Protection Index. This year, we we interviewed 2200 i t. Decision makers and we kind of asked them about you know, how how are they value in dead protection and also how the valuing data and the one thing that has definitely changed is that the value of data to them has become Maur critically important. I think it's always been important, but I think you know, if they start thinking about data is capital, you know they are starting to realize that it's only capital if you've got it. If you don't have it, it's It's nothing Thio >> and it's only yours if you have it. Well, yeah, and nobody else. Absolutely. Right here. >> Every kubernetes courses open source and everybody's got what they're what they're doing in it. You've got announcement, some work you're doing with VM, where it's open source. Also bring us inside a little bit. Valero, how did we get to this point? You know this, you know, part of the C n c f. Yet it kind of being submitted, or how does that fit into the whole community? >> Yeah, sure. So, as you said and we talked about earlier this week with Beth and people at the protection announcements We are working with collaboration with Valero now part off Veum, where in orderto being that data protection solution So Valero is an open source projects. It's out there in the open. You have thousands off stars get up. Stars are very popular among the Dev Ops community about communities users you can hear about it from customers that are looking for for solutions. There is very good at backing up cluster containers and applications. And we have a lot of experience in enterprise data protection making sure that you have a solution that, um, has compliance reporting. You contract your data, you can define policies scheduling all of that eso we are combining these two and collaborating with Valero in orderto have a solution that answers. Boston is off the back of that mean and they just want to go home knowing that the production environment is protected, the and the develops people in the communities administrators and they just want toe, get the volume and forget about the protection. Everybody can work in their environment with the tools that they know with permissions that they want, and they can both work together and be happy. And the companies that we work with are the ones that have good relationship between the devil steam and the backup administrators. And they see that the same table and talk to us, and everybody tells us what they want and what they need. As a result, we build a solution so that we'll be able to answer the needs of both of them. >> So do you have to build sometimes those relationships within a company to get them to talk or collaborate in a more conducive environment cause you see all kinds, right? I mean, you see, the full range just talked by then a free that some very successful, some very constructive, maybe some that that aren't on the same page agent. So that's almost part of your responsibility. Coming before you even get to where you could talk about the work, we've got to talk about the collaboration. Yeah, that they're not area >> we really come When there is a story, people try to move their applications to production. The developers are really already working on something, and now the developers want volumes on the I T ops people. Tell them No, no, no. If you can't protect it. According to our rules. We will not pass the audience. We can do that for you, and that creates the friction inside those teams in the organization that we talked with. There is recognition off that already and now they come together to the table and they want to hear something that would they would be able to work with us both on the management on the I T ops and and management on cube control and what develops people are using. >> And it's it's large companies that are coming in talking to us. And I think, you know, when you get a large companies, quite often you have some more of these things different fiefdoms of, of, of users inside. But because they're large companies, they have, you know, certain requirements from regulations and compliance is perspective. So they have those concerns, but and every has been saying is we look at the early design partners, customers that were looking to work with, you know, the big the big companies coming to us. >> Rob, can you just help us understand? We talked about Valero there says some open, soft, soft, soft words. That's the power tech. Just sit on top of that >> s Oh, it's a great question. So, you know, as you know, we introduced power protects after exile technologies world. It started shipping to customers at the end of July. And Coop, in any support, is really the first example of what we said that we were going to be able to do, which is more rapidly bring new workload to new capabilities into our power, protect softer offering than we've ever been able to do before. You know, we're really embarking on a quarterly release cadence, you know, which will allow us to, you know, to do things that, you know in our existing portfolio are released cadences. What's being measured in in many, many months and quite often is long as a year and beyond. So what we will do is the tech preview that we that we announced this week. You know, we will roll that out in a nup coming release in production on that will become available to any of the parent protect software users. So right within the power protect software match me interface. You know that has the VMS support Oracle sequel in file systems. We'll add the additional workload support have been able to protect kubernetes using the same workloads, the abilities to create protection policies and I'm interested every is is with protection policies. Because that she was saying about how the environment can change quite rapidly is that by using a policy, you don't need to watch for those changes as changes happen, the policy. We'll keep track of what it needs to do as far as protecting the new applications as they come up and have to go away. >> What happens is the ones we find. The policies are the arty operations in the back apartments. They want to comply with the rules that they have, and they define the gold, silver, bronze policies, whatever have you and then they can give it to the Cuban, said Means. And, the criminalist admits, can say OK, these are my volumes. These are more applications I will just use keep control and potatoes objects We will discover that will automatically create a schedule that would create that that backup. So in essence, the community suddenly doesn't need really need to care about the compliance rules they need to care about policies and the Becca pod mean can take care of other wrist >> and the applications of driving the policies and not not the other way around. >> Yeah, I mean, the creepiest ad means are used to defining policies in terms of five day provisions, their storage, for example. We want to do the same in the data protection area. >> So as far as things like retention periods, as far as whether or not the data needs to be replicated, where not the data needs to be a tear to the cloud that those are all things that the I T admin team can do on it sort of separates kind of orchestration and governance is, is a big part of perfect ex often >> love to get your viewpoint on is data protection historically was not one of the faster moving things in the I T. Realm Last two or three years at VM World, it's been one of the hottest topic, I said. You know, the keynote on Monday felt like we were kubernetes world. Not quite Cube con just yet, because there's a lot of projects there, but I walked down to the the show floor. It's not storage world like Thursday. Its data protection world is Cygnus lots of glowing parties of people so that customers, you know, the embracing change. And what does that mean for your portfolio? >> Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, I think over the years, if you think about where you go if you want to learn about data protection, VM world is probably one of the best shows to go to because >> we're >> all here. I mean, I mean, you know when you know, you know, I've you know, I've been crazy enough to be in the debt protection business for almost 15 years now. Um, and it hasn't changed. If you if you want to talk to data protection vendors than VM World, is a really good show to go to. You know, I think that that for us, you know what I am. Where has done is It's It's It's It's It's provoked provided a common foundation, you know, And that's also providing a common foundation to get us from on premises into the multi cloud environment. So once she developed, um uh, great data protection solutions in the van, where environment is that you're your target market becomes quite broad because, you know, there's so much VM were virtual ization out there in the market, but you're absolutely correct. Is that you on the show floor? And it's It's It's an interesting sight >> thinking. In addition to that, you also have obviously been at this in the show, and I think what we have seen over the last couple of years is that customers were coming tow us, asking for solutions. And this is why we were able, with the power, protect architecture and platform to innovate more quickly and respond to those faster changing trends. Because now you have persistency of volumes. Now you have protection. The M were acquired. Help tell, you know, we could work together on creating the solution. >> Yeah, absolutely. Have we've been at the Cube contract for number years. Help Theo. Of course, the president's last year VM were had a bigger presence, but that maturation of the storage component with something we knew would take time. You know, we watched it in the virtual ization world. Those of us that lived through that, you know, 10 to 15 years ago and container ization. It's starting to reach that maturity, and we're getting that inflection point >> if you also want to think about the announcement that path made on the keynote on Monday where he said we're goingto work much more with park protects, toe address, spot data protection capabilities. This is one of the things we're collaborating With the help to your team, we're contributing to the open source. We're building together things that can move in the pace off communities and address the needs off our more legacy. Companies that needed protection with complaints. >> So, Rob, that will keep you in business for another 15 years? >> I hope >> so, gentlemen. Thanks for the time. Thank you. Appreciate that. Especially on your birthday. Right? Tomorrow. Tomorrow, Right here. Tomorrow. Your birthday home for that Happy early birthday. >> Thank you very much. >> We should have a cute cake, but should especially >> the end of the day. >> I know, I know. I'll end of the day. We got something better than a cake. Gentlemen. Thank you again. Thanks. We'll be back in a little bit. Streaming content. Continuing coverage here. Avian World 2019 with some final thoughts from our panelists. Just a little bit. See on the other side for that

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Oh, good afternoon and welcome back as we continue our coverage live here on the cue from Mosconi North in beautiful San Francisco. Clouds of melted away In a way, of course, we're still talking about hybrid Multi. They're not going anywhere. In fact, there are very much entrenched into this show. John Wall's Justin Warren. Glad to have You with us. Joined now by Kevin Chats. Camera. Who's the vice president of Product management Enterprise and SP Solutions of Dental Technologies. Kevin. Good to see you again, sir. Nice to see you, too. Two shots in one week on the Q. We love that and Wait Holmes, who's the director of technical product management at Veum? Where? Wade, Good to see you this afternoon. >> But if you also >> so this this is kind of your party here, VM where? I mean, just give me your impression so far. First off, just kind of what you're sensing that the vibe here of the show and, ah, the kind of work that you're getting done. >> So the vibe here is excitement. I mean, I think everyone's excited about a lot of the announcements around either probably Pacific and how we're redefining the V's Fair platform and Tan Xue and now these capabilities on how these capabilities are going to be able to enhance our capabilities of our cloud provider partners. So I'm part of our club fighter salt for business unit, who specifically makes products and solutions for our cloud provider V, C P P program. And I think couldn't beam or excitement. And they've been a crescendo the past few years and be anywhere and b m world. And I think this has been one of the best ever. >> If the waves hitting the shore big time now. So you you talk about cloud providers about service providers. I mean, one of the same. Or Or how do you guys define that now? Or how do you separate that? >> Yeah, I think these terms are largely used interchangeably. To a large degree, I think if we look att at the cloud industry in the provider industry over the last several years, maybe about 5 to 7 years ago, there was a belief from every single cloud provider that they needed to build a scaled platform like a W s like Microsoft Azure like Google Compute. And that they were all in the business of a race to building the most robust, most scalable, most feature rich, most differentiated cloud that was largely erased the bottom from an economics perspective. And I think just about all of all of the service providers and now these cloud providers that we work with have really moved to a different model. What they've recognized is first off. The race to the hyper scale is not a profitable business that you want to race against. Number two. Ah, the transition for large enterprise I t small enterprise medium business to the cloud is so complex that it's not a game of building clouds and not a game of building platforms. It's a game of building practices at this point and cloud providers or building practices that allow them to find their own niche and differentiation off differentiated offerings. Whether that be on Prem Private Cloud hosted Private Cloud and then partnering with the hyper scale er's for the massively scaled multi tenant cloud world. And when we start to realize that this managed offering these cloud practices are there to help the enterprise and small medium business in their transition to the public cloud in transition to cloud and moving towards more managed I t offerings. What we're finding is the reemergence of these cloud providers in a meaningful way, starting to bridge the gap of skill, set, mismatches and expertise. Mismatches at Enterprise I t just doesn't have to embrace cloud technology. >> Yeah, for a long time there, there was the cloud Geraghty, who were saying that the public cloud is the only way this is gonna happen. Everything's going to be there. And some some of us I would count myself among them was a little bit skeptical about that. That approach to things and a lot of it with a lot of the pressure on on service providers was you don't even bother getting into the cloud business. Just shut up shop and go home. This is never going to be a good idea for you to compete in this at all. And it sounds like that that some of these providers have actually gone. You know what we've We've got a viable business here. There are customers here who need things done that we do really well that are not available out in public Cloud. So what are some of the things that some of the things that you're hearing from these cloud cloud providers, that that they are finding from customers that they value, that they not finding anywhere else? >> So I grew 100% that the club wider there, find their business is still growing, and it's due to their expertise. Is Kevin said, that the building practices they understand enterprise customers? Veum, Where business? They understand the platform that they're running the enterprise and are able to provide additional differentiated service's while leverage in the technology that the enterprise they're utilizing in their own data centers. So it's able to pride value out of service is with the same platform that air using in their own premises and providing those capability of same platform in a cloud model. So, given a pragmatic way for enterprises to be able to migrate to a cloud in a hybrid cloud, >> are there specific practices you noticing that is that kind of stand out as being particularly common? >> Yeah, s so I think that through the answer is yes, right? And the answer is that vertical expertise is king here, right? Understanding the industries in which the cloud platforms get deployed and how those industries consume. Resource is the use cases. How they monetize their business is key for success. But I think that what we where we've lived over the last several years is that the building blocks for all of these vertical industries, the only uniform way you had to do it was with the massively scaled public cloud providers. The hyper scale er's what we're doing now, Adele Technologies Cloud is we're enabling a consistent set of building blocks for all of these vertical industries that all of these vertical X three experts in the vertical industries across the cloud providers can then bring a common building block and go address the complex problems of building the use cases, building the monetization models, building the differentiated feature set. >> So I mean, can you give me an example? I mean, what you talking about? It's like if you're going about health care versus transportation versus manufacturing, some things that were going to a different way, we're going to slice this That's right. It's a different >> set of ecosystem partners. It's a different set of vertical applications, a different set of problems. It's different set of monetization models across the board, right? You know, retail has very specific requirements around Leighton See sensitivity and the need to be able to address micro transactions. Security capabilities of those transactions or what not, Health care is governed by hip on various other legislative. When you build in Europe, you have, ah, various data protection and privacy implications to keep in mind. It's right, so all of this is not typically available in public Cloud Public Cloud is built for a lowest common denominator. One size fits all, and then you come bring differentiation. On top of that now is enterprise. I T organizations start to migrate their workloads to Public Cloud. They're looking for consistency in terms of how they've lived before and how they work before how they've operated before. How do they migrate those applications, right? It's not I'm building everything natively for public cloud is that I have an entire set of applications that were designed in my enterprise i d environment that I just want to find a new way to operate in VM wears a consistent abstraction. Layers is really the path forward, So DT Cloud on Deli emcee and TT Cloud leveraging the public cloud providers in the V M wear abstraction with both feet spheres. Well, it's vey cloud foundations, eyes really a commonality that they can now the uses a foundational building block for all their service is >> yes. So where one of the things that a lot of customers have invested over a decade or Maur envy em where? And they have a lot of processes and tools and skills that they have invested in. And it sounds like for some of these cloud providers specializing in a particular industry, that there's a risk there that you will end up with building blocks that, yes, they're customized for one particular thing. But now I have to operate them a little bit differently. And now I've got a lot of different ways of doing things, and particularly as a provider, then that that adds cost. And I want to try to get some of those costs out there because they think that influences my margin. So is the choice. Of'em were one way of dealing with that because I can maintain that same consistent way of managing things. >> Absolutely. And that's key to some of the work that VM wear and Dell has been working together on two. Allow for Kevin Mention, Adele Technology Cloud Platform, which the baseline of that is being more cloud foundation. So been ableto have that homogeneous operational model, and Mona's data plane set is the same V sphere and XXV sand based originality perspective. So the operational model, whether it's in the providers infrastructure or whether it's on premises within enterprise is similar. >> And I think there's even 1/3 vector to this, which is, um, yeah, one public cloud provider is not gonna win. All of the public cloud providers are going to exist, and the scale of a Microsoft azure and the scale of an AWS on a scale of a Google compute put them in position to continue to lead this industry forward. And it's it's difficult to bet on one horse, right? So the GMC model on the DT Cloud model allows us to be able to scale across all of these different cloud providers and as an enterprise organization that's making specific decisions based on region or based on other financials that some of these workloads are going to say in AWS, and some of them are going to sit in Microsoft Azure, etcetera, etcetera is a common abstraction across all of them. >> But at that point, I mean the fact that you're talking about, um, vertical practices, right? Verticals having practices that might be unique to their particular industry. And now you're talking about them deciding that they might all flowed work Thio, maybe an azure. Maybe in Google. Maybe I'd be it. Whatever, Um, I mean multiple complexities for you in dealing with that because you're gonna be the translator, right? You've got to be. You've got to be multi lingual, not only within in the cloud world, but also in a vertical world too. Right? So tough road for you guys to provide that kind of flexibility and that kind of knowledge. >> Oh, I mean, that's the key to the software and solutions that GM was providing and allowing for solutions and sat space capabilities to provide a modernise, softer, defined capabilities across clouds or a and be able to manage things across, such as cost in via cloud health and other manage service's capabilities by our software platform and then be ableto have this. These capabilities in the Bean Imlay consumed by providers and turnkey fashion by utilizing del technologies, bx rail are and VCF one VX rail and having us all package together, and so that providers no longer have to focus on building a core infrastructure. But they're now able to focus on that integration layer. Focus on the additional higher level service is that are able to stitch together the use this multi cloud environment >> decision logic that our customers have. It's just so complex, and I think that the message that we've heard loud and clear from them is that they feel like once they're in particular ecosystem, they're locked into that ecosystem. And the more that we can do that give them flexibility to bring these ecosystems together and leverage the benefits and the capabilities and the regional and geo location of just about all the different ecosystems that exists and build their own ecosystems. On top of that, especially if you're a cloud provider, is really what they're looking to do. And when the foundational building blocks all look different, the integration look different the automation look different. The orchestration look different in the storage. Later look different. It's just It was impossible, right? It's really on us to provide an abstraction to make that easy for them to accomplish their business. >> Consistent foundation is critical, and that's what we're bringing through the cloud provider today. >> One thing that has changed from from technology of 12 12 15 20 years ago is the consumption model that cloud has provided. S. So what are you seeing around service providers, providing that pretty much you have to provide if your cloud provided you have to provide some kind of consumption model because that's what people have in their minds when they think about about Cloud it is. It's not just about the technology side of things. Actually, we're out the business operations about, you know, the financing and the funding models of things. What are you seeing with the cloud providers and service providers? How are they changing the way that they allow people to finance the buy of this infrastructure? >> So that's one of the pieces that, in being where Rendell is working together to allow for not just software, which through the visa program all of our software solutions are consumed through a subscription like model. So it's pay as you go, but also be able to consume hardware and consume the turnkey patches package so that VCF on Vieques rail and the Cloud Provider platform can be consumed in a pay as you go subscription model, which is a way that providers want to be able to then provides software and capabilities to their enterprise customers. >> Have they completely changed across to being purely consumption? Or do we still have a lot of industries that preferred by things that with Catholics >> it would be fantastic if the world converged on one answer? Everything is always easier when there's one answer. But I think, ah, one of the things we recognize is that, ah, and it's true and technology. It's true in business models. It's true. In operational models, there's never in. It's never just a or answer right. It's always an end, and there's a need for us to embrace multiple different models in order to meet the needs of our customers. And even a single service provider will find particular areas that they wanted, consumption based model and others that they realize that it's a well entrenched business for them, and the risk is a little bit lower, and they're willing to take on that risk and look at a Cap IX base model right there. Certainly financial implications to both an Op X and the Catholics model. There's tax implications, and you know where. We're still a little bit all over the map in terms of their preferences. >> Hopefully, we'll see that shake out a little bit and we'll have some standard patents to match the practices that will just make it a little bit easier to design the solution. >> I think the Saturn standard pattern that I expect to emerge is that we have to do everything >> for everyone >> in every way that they want to see. >> Oh, you left there, Kevin. I can't imagine that being too difficult. Everything. Everyone it all at every time. That's right. All right. Hey, thanks for the time of and the discussion and good luck with handling that. I know. That's a that's a big lift on. I know we're joking, but, uh, it's a great world for you. Certainly exciting time. And we thank you for your time here. >> Thank you. Thank you guys appreciate the time. >> I appreciate being World 2019. Coverage continues right here on the Cube. We're live and we're in San Francisco.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019 brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm stew minimum like co host for this segment is Justin War, and this is the 10th year of the Cube here at VM World 2019 when the lobby of Mosconi North and happened. Welcome to the program first, a first time guest on the program. June Yang, who is the vice president of product management and engineering at VM. Where. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> And welcoming back to the program is Marin Cabra, who's the vice president. Product marketing of Cloud at Delhi emcee for in Great to See You, thanks to All right, June so many different pieces talking about Cloud Way. Think back 10 years ago, you know, Pomerance was talking about it like it's the software mainframe. What we're talking because, you know, even back then, you know, Cloud isn't really it's not a destination or a place. You know, there is no cloud is just somebody else's computer. It's more of an operating model, so of course, the VM work cloud on various solutions. Of course. Sitting here with Del, I'm sure we'll be talking about the V. MacLeod, a deli emcee. But just give us over a little bit about you know, you're in a lot of customer meetings. You know what's resonating with your customers. What are they coming to you tow? Discuss when it comes to their overall cloud strategy? >> Yeah, I think for a lot of customers, they're really looking for both the hybrid cloud story as well as a multi call story. I mean, this is something that Pat spend quite a bit of time talking to you on the Mondays keynote. We see customers clearly. Many of them have very large existing footprints on premises and edges again as a growing segment off their infrastructure. It's also getting very significant, making very significant investment over there. And of course, the public cloud itself. So we see many customer really trying to straddle the combination off the private cloud, the public cloud and the edge side, and our strategy is really we want to have a consistent infrastructure that's running everywhere, so therefore we have a consistent operational model that enables the customer and their advance to be to do that. >> Yeah, In some ways, it reminds me back. You know, in the early days when I worked with VM where every group had some application they'd built and you know which server they bought, you know, you know, they would run VM. We're underneath that because it would help with the efficiency in there. So in some ways, is multi cloud similar to what we had in multi vendor back in the day, >> I mean, we think of, you know, you think about the first it oration. Of'em were right. We're really thinking about We're taking the hype, the hyper visor, and making all the hardware underneath that to be really invisible right you're using, You're dealing with a high. You're doing the hyper visor and really hide it a head virginity off. What's underneath that? And then we talk about our STD Sierra, which is really focusing software defined data center were virtualized not only compute, but also storage and network as well and really hide in the head Virginity for that. And so the third iteration flies really looking at the cloud as the next level off you know, different instructor comes from money again. We want to go to hide that and offer consistent operational model there. >> So from the customer perspective, back in the day when Vienna, where was new It was new and scary for a lot of customers. And we had we saw that with cloud as well. So 10 years ago, Cloud was evil and wrong, and we should never use it. Customers have moved on in both of those cases Have we have We reached the point now where cloud is just Yes, it's accepted and we're going to be doing it. Are we? Are we going to have another battle about whether hybrid or multi cloud or customers just moved past that and are now looking at? We know what we want to use this for, so we know that we need to choose it. We're not gonna be moving everything to the cloud, but we're not gonna be putting everything in V EMS either. We're going to choose what is the right solution for the for the different views. Guys, >> I think over the last court, a couple of years that has become sort of the defective standard people comfortable with the cloud people comfortable with on premises. They know that it's gonna be hybrid cloud world. It's gonna be a multi cloud world. >> So Varun, we talked about the VM War cloud on Delhi M C. We had a number of conversations back. Adelle Technologies World. You know, earlier this year when you look out in the general market place, they're like, Oh, I look at the family. Well, Della's the hardware Veum. Where's the software? There are a lot of announcements this week that we're the cross pollination of pieces, and a lot of those are software pieces from the Dell family that tie into what's happening on VCF and the like. So bring us the update. >> Mr Was, as June said, both Daddy M. C and V M were incredibly customer driven companies, right? So what we've been hearing from customers is one. They're really excited about being able to try out the Ember cloud and a GMC, so we're very, very happy to be working with the hammer to bring this to market first. So that's something that that our customers have been asking us for. But then, along with that, as customers start understanding the model of the fully manage data. So you know the fully manage infrastructure you can. The next question that customers have is okay. I can now focus on higher value added service is And one of the things that immediately comes up next is okay. What about my data out? We're protected, right? I'm gonna be running applications on this. And we've already spoken on this show many times before. Data is increasingly one off our organization's most valuable assets. It's a competitive differentiator. Bc news, Every day, if it falls in the wrong hands, what happens? Right? So what we've been doing now, in addition to the three amazing amount of work that we've been doing the June's team to bring this to market, they've also been working on the data protection side. So now the deli emcee data protection is now validated to be working on Williams of you, MacLeod and DMC as the data protection solution. So this means that customers can not only take advantage of the the integration that we have on the infrastructure earlier. You can also take advantage of just have the peace of mind that our industry leading data protection solutions Will will be there to help them manage the data and protect their data. >> So it sounds like it's something that you don't have to think about it as an afterthought, which is often the challenge with data protection. If you if you wait to think about it, it never happens. So this pretty much just comes. We know it's gonna work. Turn it on Day one. Just have it. Start with your data being protected and just have that baked into the way that you run your operations so that it no longer becomes spinning up a specific backup project. Because those things that they always expensive, there's no there's no perceived value to the business of doing this, whereas if it's just now part off, this is how you run your infrastructure. So this is how you stand up via MacLeod on Delhi emcee, and this is just how you should do business. >> You know, it's absolutely like that way. What would we find? That's really exciting. What the Hammer Claw Run DMC is. Customers are asking us to deliver the cloud model right to their data centers do their edge locations, so that's how they want to consume software solutions as well. So what's amazing about the solution is you're you're doing everything to the browser. So that's how you're gonna cause you Data protection becomes an ad on service that you want to add on that. And I'm sure over time we're gonna enter the capabilities as well. But it's really that's the key part here. The ease of consumption it Sorry, The ease of use and basically being able to consume things through the browser is a game changer for for infrastructure, on data in the data center on the edge. >> So June 1 of the things that definitely has caught our attention and one of the bigger announcements this week is Tom Zoo in the con to Mission Control. That's what they call it because from going to have multiple locations, we've been looking for my entire career in I t o. You know, we're gonna have some tool that's going to manage across these environments and made a VM wear cloud, you know, on Delhi emcee. But I probably of'em were cloud on some of the public clouds, and I you might also be doing some kubernetes. That's not even with the V a more pieces, so help paint a picture is kind of where we are today and where we're going when it comes to you know that management consumption and maybe even some of the finances in getting to that cloud operating model across all my environments. >> Yeah, tonsil Vincenzo is a kind of follow. Your name for a number of products was in that tons of mission control, of course, is one part of that. The way we view Content Zoo is that this is really a multi called platform. We understand that customers of developers in particular, wanted to use consume, consume carbon eighties cluster and the often they want to choose communities. Cluster based on different cloud for variety reasons, sometimes cause something's resiliency, sometimes just geographical availability. And then there needs the way to be able to see this in the consolidated fashion. And that's what tons of mission control does. And that's when I showcase yesterday the keynote to really show that you can now have a single pane glass to be able to see all of these clusters across multiple clouds and and then be able to, you know, do some troubleshooting and so forth making things much easier that, of course, buildup Holly policies on top of these clusters and then welcome propagated changes and making sure those in force. So those are some really, really, I think, really good operational capabilities that really simplifies the data. The operational cut, you know, kind of the task that operator has to do its part of the >> driver for this, that that enterprises who got this investment in v sphere. So they've spent 10 years of 10 more years investing in envy sphere. And then all of a sudden, you've got these cloud people who want to come and do things in a completely different way. So now, as a business, I either I have to make a choice of what do I invest a lot of money in both of these things? Do I move everything to one model? It sounds like you're actually trying to provide customers with away. That's a look. You've already made these investments and you don't have to throw them all away. You can still operate things here, but you can also have these cloud things without having to move everything off into a completely different operating model. Is that fairly >> accurate. So I think we're very customer driven by We want to deliver what customer wants to. It wants to be able to consume S o. You know, That's why you know, part of the reason we're so excited about a Project Pacific on top of the V sphere side is really customer has made a huge investment on the visa for platform. And we've got 500,000 customers out there and tons of customers does. He becomes their standard in the data center and that you now have a kubernetes coming in and containers coming in and we don't want a customer. Have to do a siloed platform for it. And by embedding communities directly into V's for yourself, we have now made V's fear The platform for containers and for VMC Sport was well, so that investment customer has made on the on the VCR side. Now kind of moves out to people to cover the communities and containers as well. And because our std see and our hybrid cloud story we're taking the same V sphere across to be a mark on the deli Emcee the Mark child on aws mbm were cloud, you know on edge and so forth. That means all this benefits that fracture. Pacific greens is now going everywhere. >> Having spoken to some clients about the experience of even managed community service is it's really, really painful for them. So being about having these of use of these fear, if you could bring that to group in a visa and have that is a manage service, I'm sure you'll make a lot of people very happy. >> That's that's why we're so excited about it. >> Do you want to click one level further on the product Pacific stuff? Because the thing that struck me at first it's like, Wait, you know, containers and communities That's gonna be the cloud and being, you know, feast fear. We want to modernize it. But you know, that's not what I want to put in the public cloud. But Product Pacific. Is this primarily a data center offering? If I'm doing via more cloud in a public cloud to expect to be leveraging the native public cloud and then tan to helps me manage across them? Is that how we think of them? Or am I not getting the full story? >> So I think a little bit about you think about. There's 111 track is you can do is all these fear based clouds, right? These fear based on premise the sphere based on dahlia MSI ve sphere based on top of you know, public cloud right, That's one track if you follow that track than Project Pacific essentially allows you to be able to run both kubernetes and virtual machines on a single platform. Now, if customers also wanted to be able to run a native cloud, then this is what kind of bring tons of mission control in, because that's a multi called story. So that was kind of what paddle trying explain at the keynote in terms of hybrid cloud versus the versus the multi cloud. >> Okay, so you don't actually have to make a choice of one way of saying things, the tyranny of the single glass of pain. I have to make choices and you can't have a lot of things. And if there's one thing enterprises, height is that that's dedicating themselves to just one way of doing things, they like to have choice. >> We want to give them choices. Well, >> s O. B. Having that ability to be able to make those choices and have it be an end decision instead of war. I think that's >> so one of the questions we've gotten from customers this week is you know, your partners he had VM wear have just made a lot of acquisitions. It's a lot of integration work that needs to get it done. Their bills got strong experience in these things. That sit on top of the stack gives a little bit of what we should see going forward on your planet. >> I mean, I think if there's anything that's that's apparent this week, is that being there and L Technologies are just getting started. I mean, even as a having having known a little bit about some of these announcements, it was just so exciting to see all that stuff come Rio. And we're very, very excited to continue to work with the, um, where to bring. You know, Tan Xue. The various components attends a more Cooper container stuff as well, as well as other other capabilities that we saw in you realize orchestrator and automation. We want to bring that to our customers in an integrated fashion so that it's easy for them to deploy just easy for them to use. And so I think what you're seeing here is just the start. >> That sounds fantastic. Yeah. So all of this investment that women there were saying from from the M wear and from Delhi and see like our customers going to see the payoff immediately, like tomorrow. Or we're going to have to wait. Another wait for some of these investments and integration is to pay off. How long are we going away? >> You think a lot of this is coming to fruition already? We announced availability. Of'em were called on Dahlia emcee at B M World. So it's ready for customer to purchase today, right? If a customer wanted Thio, you know much like what I demolition at the keynote. If a customer has a data center, they want to stood up wherever they need to be taken, literally place, order and be able to get that right. So that's the benefit they can have immediately. And of course, a lot of the longer term things have been talking about by layering additional capabilities. When Project Pacific comes into for a shin, this becomes available, you know, across the veer mark Wild and tell'em see products as well. I mean, these things will all kind of continuous snowballing as we go forward. But there's immediate benefit today and they'll be ongoing benefit as we go forward, making additional investment. >> Excellent. I don't have to wait forever. >> Yes, yes, it's about instant gratification. That's the trick. Now >> what? Wonder if you could speak to kind of changing application portfolio. His customers are modernizing, Going cloud native on that, what's the impact on your platforms and what are you seeing and hearing from customers? >> You know, uh, there is obviously a lot of interest in containers, and customers are either already trying it out or having some sort of applications that her back is there or they have or they're looking at it and saying, This seems really interesting. In some ways, it seems very, very similar to what What I saw from customers five years ago when people were saying, I'm gonna move everything to the public club and, you know, sometimes you hear a little bit of I'm gonna move everything to containers. I think what we will likely see over the next few years is a little bit of rationalization, just like we saw with public and private, is that it's both. I think we will continue to see sort of traditional applications and new applications live in more off of'em centric model. And I think there will be as their new applications being built or as I squeeze package of their applications to be more container friendly. We'll see some go that way. I you know, if anything, I've learned it is One thing I've learned in the I T industry in all these years is there really isn't a one size fits all solution. We get very excited about things, >> and we're like, Oh, >> everybody's going to do this But the reality is, things balanced themselves out and into June's point as a vendor. What we want to do is we want to give our customers choice. But we know that there's no one size fits all, and we want them to choose what's right for their business and help them achieved their goals. >> So, June last question I have for you. Congratulations on the keynote yesterday way Heard way. No, a lot of the inside work and, you know, heard like the guy that swim across the English Channel like that got added to the agenda, you know, like days beforehand flew way. Understand? What happened with demos and last minute gives a little bit is to kind of the making of the team that helped put that together. You know anything that you know, you were super excited. That actually made the final stage that you might not have thought would've gotten there, >> you know, we started out was we were very ambitious, right? And we put in 15 or 16 demos into it. And as we started putting things together, time was our biggest enemy, you know? You know our friend Joe, who is, you know, running the day to show he was telling me you are 30 seconds over on this particular done, though you are 45 seconds on the other day. You give yourself credit here. I'm trying to tell the story here. So, unfortunately, we actually had to cut some demos out just because he couldn't fit into the scope of time. We want to make sure the story really comes out and the customer really understood what we're trying to show. I mean, I'm just so excited as part of the, you know, me doing the key day to keynote. I actually learned about a bunch of products I wasn't that familiar with. And so I was like, Wow, I didn't even know were doing that. And so just to see the amount of capabilities that we're bringing to bear, it's pretty astonishing and it's it's exciting. >> June, I'll say It reminds me of other cloud shows where there's so much going on so much new products getting launched that no single person can keep up with that. But thank you, June and Vern for helping our audience learn a little bit more about the areas that you're doing with >> my pleasure. >> Thank you for having us. >> Justin Warren. I'm still Minuteman back with more coverage at VM World 2019. Thank you for watching the Cube

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, Welcome back, everyone to the Cubes Live coverage of the Emerald 2019. I'm John Career with Lycos Day, Volante Dave. 10 years covering the Q Weird Mosconi and 2010 boy Lots changed, but >> it's still the >> platform that Palmer Ritz laid out. But the stuff filling in 10 years later. >> Okay, you call that software mainframe and Robin came in so I can't call Mainframe Way >> Have leaders from PM Wears Largest business unit. The Cloud Platform Business Kid Colbert to CTO and Christmas R S v P and General Manager Guys, Thanks for coming on The key. Appreciate. >> Yeah, that's for having us. The >> world's your business units smoking hot. It's very popular, like you run around doing meetings. Cloud platform is the software model that's 10 years later actually happening at scale. Congratulations. What's the What's the big news? What's the big conversation for you guys? >> Yeah, the biggest news this week is the announcement of project specific, and, um, it's about taking the platform a Jess, um, hundreds of thousands of customers on it and bringing together communities were just now very popular with the developers and that black form together so that operators, on the one hand, can just deal with the platform they love. And the developers can deal with the kubernetes layer that they love. >> It's interesting to watch because, you know, the whole end user computing stack that was laid out 10 years ago is actually happening now, Assassin see, sass business models. We all see the and half of them is on the success of Cloud. But interesting to see kubernetes, which we've been following since the report started. Open stack days. You saw that emerging. Everyone kind of saw that. And it really became a nice layer. And the industry just create as a de facto. Yeah, you guys were actually driving that more forward. So congratulations on that. >> That's sitting it >> natively in V sphere is interesting because you guys spend a ton of time. This is a core product for you guys. So you're bringing something native into V sphere? I'm sure there's a lot of debates internally how to do that, kid. What's that? What is the relevance workers. You guys have a lot of efficiencies and be severe, but bring in kubernetes is gonna give you some new things. What, >> So the thinking is really you know, it's Christmas mentioning. How do we take this proven platform? Move it forward. Customers have moved millions of work clothes on top of the sphere, operate them in production, the Prussian great capabilities, and so they'd be able to be very successful in that. And so the question is, how do we help them move forward in the kubernetes? You know, you mentioned Crew readies is still fairly young, the ecosystem around. It's still somewhat immature, still growing right, and it's a very different environment than what folks are used to who used the sphere. So there's a big challenge that customers have around managing multiple environments. All the training that's different, all the tools that are different so we can actually take their investments. They've already made into V sphere leverage and extend those into the kubernetes world that's really powerful. We'll help our customers take all these millions of workloads and move them forward. It's >> interesting because we were always speculating about being where I started Jerry Chan when he was on yesterday. He's been of'em where since early days, you know, but looking at VM where when they went to their you guys went back to your core When we be cloud air kind of win its way and then you deal them is on since the stock price has been going great, So great chair older takeover value there. But you got clarity around what cloud was. And as you look at the operator target audience, you guys have the operators and the devil and ops is critical. So you guys have been operating a lot of work, Liz and I think this is fascinating. So the role of containers is super relevant because you got V EMS and containers. So again, the debate continues. >> Well, I think >> Tainer is wrong. Where Bond, It's interesting conversation because kubernetes is orchestrating all that >> while the snarky treat tweet Oh day and you guys feel free to come. It was Oh, I thought we started launch pivotal. So we didn't have to run containers on virtual machines. Yeah, we know that people run containers on bare metal. They run containers and virtual machines, but >> yeah, It's a debate that that we hear pop up on the on the snarky Twitter feeds and so forth. We'll talk to customers about it. You know, this whole VM versus container debate, I think, really misses the point because it's not really about that. What it's about is how do I actually operate? These were close in production, right? This kind of this three pillows we talk about build, run, manage. Custer's want to accelerate that They won't do that with enterprise, great capabilities with security. And so that's where it really gets challenging. And I think you know, we've built this amazing ecosystem around desire to achieve that. And so that's what we're taking forward here. And, yes, the fact that we're using fertilization of the covers, that's an implementation detail. Almost. What's more, valuables? All the stuff above that the manageability, the operational capabilities. That's a real problem. It seems to >> me, to the business impact because, okay, people going to go to the cloud, they're gonna build cloud native acts. But you've got all these incumbent companies trying not to get disrupted to trying to find new opportunities, playing offense and defense at the same time, they need tooling to be able to do that. They don't want to take their e r p ap and stick it in the cloud, right? They want to modernize it. And you know you're not gonna build that overnight in the cloud anyway, so they need help. >> That's the the key move that we made here. If you if you think about it, customers don't have kubernetes experts right today and most of them in their journey to the mortar naps. They're saying, Hey, we need to set up two stacks. At least we are if we immerse stack that we love. And now communities are developers laws. So we have to stand up and they don't have any in house experts to do that right? And with this one move, we have actually collapsed it back to one stack. >> Yeah, I think it's a brilliant move. Actually, it's brilliant because the Dev ops ethos has proven everyone wants to be there, all right. And the question is, who's leading? Who is lagging? So ops has traditionally lagged. If you look at it from the developer standpoint, you guys have not been lagging on the we certainly have tons of'em virtualization been standardized. Its unifying. Yeah, the two worlds together, and it really as we've been calling it cloud two point. Oh, because if you look at what hybrid really is, it's cloud two point. Oh, yeah. Cloud one data was Dev Ops Storage and compute Amazon. You're born in the cloud. We we have no I t department 50 people. Why would we ever and developers are the operators? Yeah, so we shall. Enterprise scale. It's not that easy. So I love to get your thoughts on how you guys would frame the cloud two point. Oh, Visa vi. If cloud one does storage and compute and Amazon like scale, what is cloud to point out to you? >> Yeah, well, I think so. Let's talk about the cloud journey. I think that's what you're getting at here. So here's how it discuss it with customers. You are where you are today. You have your existing apse. A lot of them are monolithic. You're slow to update. Um, you know, so forthright. And then you have some of the cloud NATO nirvana over here. We're like everything's re architected. It's Micro Service's got all these containers off, so >> it doesn't run my business >> well, yeah, well, that's what I want to get to. I think the challenge, the challenge is it's a huge amount of effort to get there, right, All the training we're talking about, all the tooling and the all the changes there, and people tend to look at. This is a very binary thing, right that you're there. Here where you are, you're in the club, New Nirvana. People don't often talk about what's in the middle and the fact that it's a spectrum. And I think what we used to get a V M, where is like, let's meet customers where they are, You know, I think one of the big realizations we had, it's not. Everyone needs to get every single application on this far side over here. Some halfs, your pieces, whatever you know, it's fine to get them a little bit of the way there, and so one of the things that we saw with the M A coordinated us, for example, was that people there was a pent up demand to move to the public cloud. But it was challenging because to go from a visa environment on Prem to an eight of US native environment to change a bunch of things that tooling changes like the environment a little bit different, but with a mark, our native us, there's no modifications at all. You just little evey motion it. And some people have you motioning things like insanely fast now, without modifying the half you can't get you know something you have to suddenly better scalable. But you get other cloud benefits. You get things like, Oh, my infrastructure is dynamic. I can add host dynamically only pay for what I need. Aiken consume this as a service. And so we help moving. We have to move there. There were clothes a little bit in the middle of the spectrum there, and I think what we're doing with Project Pacific and could realise is the same thing. They start taking advantage of these great kubernetes capabilities for their existing APs without modification. So again, kind of moving them further in that middle spectrum and then, you know, for the absolute really make a difference to their business. They can put in the effort to get all the way over there, >> and we saw that some of the evidence of some challenges of that shiny new trend within the dupe ecosystem. Big data objects to army. Who doesn't love that concept, right? Yeah, map produced. But what happened was is that the infrastructure costs on the personnel human capital cost was so massive that and then cloud cloud came along and >> just go out. There is also the other point about just just just a bespoke tooling that >> technology, right, Then the disruptions to create, you know to that, then the investments that it takes. Two >> you had a skill and you had a skills gap in terms of people have been. So that brings us back to So how do you address that problem? Because most of the audience out here, not developers. Yeah. Yeah. Total has the developers connection. So >> this is one of the really cool things about Pacific that what we've done with Pacific when you look at it from an I T. Operations, one of you that person sees v sphere the tool they already know and use understand it. Well, when a developer looks at it, they see kubernetes. And so this is two different viewpoints. Got like, you know, the blind men around the elephant. But, um but the thing is is actually a singular thing in the back end, right? You know, they have these two different views. And so the cool thing about us, we can actually bring items and developers together that they can use their own language tools process. But there's a common thing that they're talking about. They have common visibility into that, and that's super, super powerful. And when you look at, it also is happening on the kubernetes side is fully visible in the V's here side. So all these tools that already work against the sphere suddenly light up and support kubernetes automatically. So again, without any work, we suddenly get so much more benefit. >> And the category Buster's, they're going on to that. You're changing your taking software approach that your guys No, you're taking it to the software developer world. It's kind of changing the game. One of things. I want to get your thoughts on Cloud to point out because, you know, if computing storage was cloud one dato, we're seeing networking and security and data becoming critical ingredients that are problems statement areas people are working on. Certainly networking you guys are in that. So as cloud chip one is gonna take into the fact that messy middle between, you know, I'm on here and then I want the Nirvana, as always, the origination story and the outcomes and stories. Always great. But the missing messy middle. As you were pointing out, it's hard. How do you guys? >> And if you look at the moves that we made in the Do You know about the big fusion acquisition that remained right, which happened, like a month ago, and it was about preparing the platform, our foray I animal or clothes? So really, what we're trying to do is really make sure that the history of platform is ready for the modern applications, right? I am along one side communities applications, you know, service oriented applications. All of them can land on the same platform and more and more. Whether it's the I am l or other application, they're being written on top of communities that structures code. Yeah, nothing like Jenna's well, so enable incriminating will help us land all the modern applications on top of the same platform that our customers are used to. So it's a huge kind of a inflection point in the industry from my >> wealthy earlier point, every CEO I talked to said, I want to get from point A to point B and I wanna spend a billion dollars to get there. I don't wanna have to hire some systems integrator and outsource to get any there. Show me how I get without, you know, destroying my >> business. How did we meet the customers where they're at, right? Like what? The problem with this, the kind of either or model you're here you're there is that there's a huge opportunity costs. And again, Well, if you will just need a little bit of goodness, they don't need the full crazy nirvana Goodness right? And so we enable them to get that very easily in automated way, right? If you'd just been any time re factoring or thinking through this app that takes months or even a year or more, and so you know that this the speed that we can unleash her The velocity for these customers is >> the benefit of that. Nirvana is always taken out of context because people look at the outcome over over generations and saying, Well, I want to be there but it all starts with a very variable basis in shadow. I used to call it, but don't go in the cloud and do something really small, simple. And then why? This is much more official. I like this stack or this approach. That's ultimately how it gets there. So I got to get I got to get that point for infrastructures code because this is what you're enabling. Envies, fearful when I see I want to get your reaction. This because the world used to be. And I ask Elsa on this years ago, and he kind of validated it. But because he's old school, Intel infrastructure dictated to the applications what it could do based on what it could do. Now it's flipped upside down with cloud platform platform and implies enabling something enabling platform. Whatever you call the APs are dictating for the infrastructure. I need this. That's infrastructure is code. That's kind of what you're saying is that >> I mean, look kubernetes broader pattern time. It said, Hey, I can declare what I want, right, and then the system will take care of it and made in that state. I decided state execution is what it brought to the table, and the container based abs, um, have already been working that way. What this announcement does with Project Pacific is that the BM applications that our customers built in the past they are going to be able to take advantage of the same pattern, just the infrastructure escort declarative and decide state execution That that's going to happen even for the old workload, said our customer service >> and they still do viens. I mean, they're scaled 1000 the way >> they operate the same pattern. I >> mean, Paul Morris doesn't get enough credit for the comedy made in 2010. He called it the hardened top. Do you really care what's underneath if it's working effectively? >> Well, I mean, I think you know the reality today is that even though containers that get all get a lot of coverage and attention, most were close to being provisioned. New workloads even are being provisioning v EMS, right? If you look at AWS, the public clouds, I mean, is the E c to our ah go compute engine. Those service's those VM so once they're getting heavily used. And so the way we look at it, if we want to support everything. And it's just going to give customers a bunch of tools in their tool box. And let's put on used the right tool for the right job. Right? That's what the mentality >> that's really clouds. You know, Chris, I want to get your you know, I want to nail you down on the definition of two point. Uh, what is your version? Come on. We keep dodging around, get it out. Come on. >> I think we touched on all aspects of it. Which one is the interesting, less court allowing the consumer of the cloud to be able to dictate the environment in which the applications will operate and the consumer is defining it or the developers to defining it. In this case, that, to me, is the biggest shift that we have gone through in the Colorado. Yeah, and we're just making our platform come to life to support >> that. We're taking the cube serving. We'll put all together, and we want the community to define it, not us. What does it explain? The honest what it means to be a project and has a project Get into it. An offering? >> I mean, so Project Pacific is vey sphere, right? I mean, this is a massive, rethinking re architecture of Easter. Like pretty much every major subsystem component within Visa has been updated with this effort. Um, what we're doing here is what we've technically announced is actually what we call a technical preview. So saying, Hey, this is technology we're working on. We think it's really interesting We want to share with the public, get the public's feedback, you know, figure out a way on the right direction or not. We're not making any commitment, releasing it or any time frames yet. Um, but so part of that needed a name, right? And so because it is easier, but it's a specific thing. We're doing the feast here, so that's where the project comes from. I think it also gives that, you know, this thing has been a huge effort internally, right? There's a lot of work that's gone into it. So you know, it has some heft and deserves a name Min itself. >> It's Dev Ops to pointed. Your reds bring in. You making your infrastructure truly enable program out from amble for perhaps a tsunami. >> The one thing I would say is we wouldn't announce it as a project if it was not coming soon. I mean, we still are in the process. Getting feedback will turn it on or not. But it it's not something that is way out. Then it's It is going to come. >> It's a clear direction. It's a statement of putting investment into his code and going on to course correct. Get some feedback at exactly. But it's pretty obvious you can go a lot of pain. Oh, yeah, isn't easy button for combat. He's >> easy on the >> future. I think it's a great move. Congratulations. We're big fans of kubernetes. So the guys last night having a little meeting Marriott thinking up the next battle plans for game plan for you guys. So, yeah, I >> thought this is just the tip of the iceberg. We had a lot of really, really cool stuff we're doing. >> We're gonna be following the cloud platform. Your progress? Certainly. Recovering. Cloud two point. Oh, looking at these new categories that are emerging again. The end state is Dev Ops Program ability. Apple cases, the Cube coverage, 10th year covering VM world. We're in the lobby of Mosconi in San Francisco. I'm John Favorite Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone. Day three Q coverage here in San Francisco for V emerald. 2019. I'm just for a student, Um, in here with David Lan. Take days free kick off. We have two sets wall to wall coverage. Guys, this is the time where we get to take a deep breath two days under our belts look and reflect on all the news we've covered in a dark to last analysis sessions but also kind of riff on. We got two nights in hallway conversations we learned a lot of the party means do. I learned a lot last night. Dave. I know you. You learned a lots, do you, Thomas? When things that the chatter Certainly twittersphere hashtag the emerald. A lot of action on there, but it's the hallway conversations. It's the party that people have a few cocktails in them day that you start to hear the truth. The real deal comes out, >> No doubt. And and again Jon Stewart, there's real concern over from the from the practitioners we talked to about this acquisition spree. Are they going to be integrated? Are they going to just throw all this stuff at us and keep jamming products and service is down our throats? Or is this going to be a coherent set of solutions that solves our problem? We also had a little little interesting side conversation about, you know, Snowflake, Frank's lumens new company and how basically Frank is bringing back the Pirates from Data Domain and from service. Now Mike Scarpelli is over there. He's a rock star. CFO Beth White is eventually is back over there. And Frank's Lupin. He's the guy who takes companies from, you know, 100 million to a billion, so that's gonna be >> very serious money making him going on there. >> We have been following his career for a number of years now. We watched him take data domain. We watched him pull that that rabbit out of his hat with the sale with net app, and then the emcee swooped in. And then we saw what he did service. Now we've documented this is an individual to watch, you know, >> he's a world class management team member I mean, he's executes. >> Oh, yeah, no doubt. And >> he has >> a formula that's been proven and in time and time again. And to me, the biggest testament salute Min is the success of the continued success of Data Domain. After he left Hey, he really helped clean up the emcees data protection mess. Um, and then the second thing is, look at service now is performance after he left, I haven't missed a beat. And, yeah, John Donahoe, great executive and all, but it's because Frank's Lubin had everything in place and that was a really well run >> dry. And they got a nice little oracle like business model. >> Yeah. No, you're right. They kind of, you know, the big complaint now as well. Your price is too high that Oracle. >> What have you learned? What you hear in the hallways? I mean, a lot of chatter. >> Yes, John, we We've been reflecting back a lot. It's 10 years in 10th year of the Cube here and back here in San Francisco. The new Mosconi, our third show that I've been at this year in Mosconi and we always track year to year. But since it's been what 45 years since we were here for VM World. When I talked to the average vendor. When I talk to you know, the analysts here were like, Oh, thank goodness we're not in Vegas. When I talked to the average attendee, they're like, Oh my God, what happened to San Francisco since last time we were here? It is too expensive. And the experience walking around San Francisco has really not nearly as nice as it might have been five or 10 years ago. And many of them we were talking to, Ah, woman that runs an event that has been Vegas in San Francisco. And she said, Oh, we did in San Francisco and got tremendous feedback. Don't do it there again. Brings back to Vegas both for costs and the enjoyment of being around the environment. >> Where was a shit show here in San Francisco is horrible right now, I got to say to your right eye was walking this morning from my hotel. Literally. A homeless person passed out the middle of the sidewalk. Um, your smells like urine. It's P, and it's It's just I mean, it's really bad this tense now. I mean City of San Francisco is gonna do some. Mosconi, by the way, has been rebuilt. Awesome. So, you know, in terms of the new Mosconi stew, that's a serious upgrade. Hotel rooms are scarce and just the homeless problem. It's just ridiculous. I don't know what they're >> doing. So one of the other big things when I was reflecting coming into here two years ago when VM wear really started down right before the war on AWS announcement, they made a big announcement. IBM because they had sold off the cloud air toe Oh, VH And for two years Oh, VH was a big partner, Talked about that transition, said we handed off this great asset over h isn't here at the show. I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, that was, you know, such a big story and other companies like New >> 12. That's good. One lets someone who's not at the show and why. Yeah, oh, VH wired to hear >> They aren't here because, well, they've got customers. More of them are in Europe That was supposed to be a big entry into the United States. Obviously, it wasn't as valuable for them to be here, even though I'm sure they're still part of that service provider ecosystem. They have other big one for us, and we've had on the Cube Nutanix. You know, we've had Dheeraj Pandey. First time we had him on was that this show is still the majority of Nutanix. Customers are VM where customers I've talked to lots of Nutanix customers at the event, even part of the analyst event. Some of the customers I talked to were like, Oh, yeah, my hardware stacks Nutanix and amusing NSX. And I'm using other things there. But they are not here. They're not allowed to be at the show. And I >> mean, they were blatantly told they can't come. >> They can't come here. They can't come to the regional things. They can't do the partner things. So that that that relationship is definitely >> from red hat. What kind of presence have you seen from Red s? >> So their number companies like red Hat that they're kept at a lower level of sponsorship. So they're here. They participate, you know. Open shift, of course, is you know, big enemy for cloud native. Lots of open shift runs on V sphere. So many of those companies that are part of the ecosystem, but not the ones that they want to celebrate and put front and forward. So it's always interesting kind of walk around on those. Even Microsoft is an interesting relationship for, you know, decades with the M wear. You know, of course, azure they partner with. But hyper V was long a competitors. So, you know, we understand those competitive relationships >> could be interesting. Stew and Dave on the ecosystem Jerry Chan Day when we just doing my interview yesterday on the other set mentioned that the ecosystem reinvents itself the community. The question now is with Delhi emceeing Del Technologies obviously heard Michael Dell essentially laying out his plan, which is he's got. He's trying to keep people distracted, but the bottom line is going to top people putting together the cloud right well service provider model. So you know, that's what he's gonna be a big impact. VM wear the crown jewel of Del Technologies certainly is looking more and more like It's >> well and yesterday remember the first VM world we did in 2010? It was It was del I mean course and see only the time Who's Del? It was H p Yes, the emcee was there, but it was net app. I mean, everybody could've had equal standing yesterday at the keynotes. It was Project Dimension of V M, where cloud on Delhi emcee and long keynotes >> data protection into the VM were >> also it's It's all very heavily, you know, Jeff Clarke has his his thumb on, you know, the the deli emcee folks pushing that through Veum where Michael is orchestrating the whole thing. Pat obviously is allowing it. I was sitting in the audience Next next, Some folks from Netapp they're like, you know, this kind of a bummer. Calvin Sito from h p e tweeted Wow how to stick it in the face of your ecosystem partners. He then later went on Facebook saying, Hey, I love this ecosystem, so sort of balancing it out because, you know, he wants to be a good, good citizen, but clearly the ecosystem partners who basically brought VM where you know, to the the position where it's in through distribution, our little ruffled. Right now you can't blame him, But at the same time, the mandate is clear. Michael Dell is driving his products and his solutions through VM were period the end. And, you know, if you don't like it, leave >> right. They had such great success with V San and VX rail in that joint product development and go to market. If they can replicate that with a number of other solutions, they get that the synergies. If >> you don't like it, don't leave. That leave is worse than that. They say you don't like it, you know, invited you. But >> how about what Pat said yesterday in the Cube about when they announced on Gwen heavily leaned into V san. He said publicly that Joe Tucci was pissed and I hate her. They were going at it so that so that shows you the change, right? I mean, so so so e m. C. When it owned VM where was very cautious about allowing Veum wears a software company to drive value somewhere Now is just acting like a software company. >> Well, I think I mean, I learned last night's do, um and you can appreciate this. I learned that the top executives of'em where are looking heavily and working hard at understanding and drive them kubernetes cloud native thing because this is not a throwaway deal. This is not a you know, far anything that they are investing. They get their top brass tech execs on kubernetes fto. Two big players job. Ada, Craig McCaw calumnies. We know interviews since day one, but I think the cloud native thing is going to be interesting. And I think it's gonna be evolution. I think there's gonna be a very dynamic road thing's gonna be a series, of course, corrections, but directionally they're all in on. They're going for it, they're not. >> And actually, I had a, you know, good discussion with Chad Attack. It's a good friend of the program now working at GM, where for the first time, but came from AMC worked at Pivotal. He said, culturally, such a gap between VM wear don't have to touch your app, you know, move everything along lifted shift is nice and easy versus pivotal, you know must go completely You know, dual programming, you know, agile everything there, so bridging those because there's multiple paths and the rail pharaoh announcement is that would be cloud native stuff that won't necessarily go to the EMS. We're going to retool V EMS to now be a platform for kubernetes so that they have a few passed to bridge or to build towards the future. Here's the >> answer strategy. Discussion That and Rayo Farrell was now running Cloud native. Think this is just really >> ties in the interesting discussion that I had with some folks was that you've essentially got well, Jerry Chen brought this up last time we had him on it and reinventing because >> we have >> a conversation all the time about this Amazon have to go up the stack. And Jerry Chen made a really he said, Look, it they're not They're not gonna become an e r peace offer company. What they're gonna do is give tools to the builders so that they can disrupt Europea. They can disrupt service. Now they can disrupt Oracle. That's their strategy, at least for now. Okay, so what does that say? I think the strategy discussion inside of'em were and and l is about by whatever clouds gonna be 35 to 50% of the market. Fine. And the cloud native abs. Great. But you got this mission critical. E r p is an example. Database saps that are on Prem. What we have to do is keep them there. So we're going to sell to the incumbents and we're going to give them cloud native tools, toe modernize. Those APS have build new acts on Prem, and that's the that is the collision course that's coming. So the big question is, can the cloud native guys and AWS disrupt that >> huge? I've always said I'm is on and like the way they're coming in, a tsunami is coming in. And who's gonna build that sea wall to stop it right? And that's essentially only hope that these guys have. You look at all the competitive strategy. Was Oracle. Whoever just gotta stop it? You can't like >> the sea >> wall. That's a great building. A sea wall I was, I would say, is Is that you know, they're only hope at this point is to, you know, get in the game because see Amazon is the stack. They're not really moving up the stack. You hear that from Cisco and Dale and other people? That's where it's a game of musical chairs. Right now, the music's you know, there's still a lot of shares left, but soon chairs getting pulled away and Cisco Deli emcee VM, where they're all fighting for these big chairs. And one >> thing >> we talked about yesterday is that VM wears very directional, product driven. Otherwise they pick a direction, is a statement of direction and don't really have a lot of meat on the bone. In the product side, Sister is actually in market with service providers there in market with NETWORKINGS to this no vapor there that's installed basis and incumbent business. You have developers Esso Baton talks about suffered to find data center, suffer defined networking. I mean, come on, Really. I mean, they're getting there, but it didn't have the complete solution. Cisco >> Coming into this week, I expected here a bit more about the progress and all the customers of'em wear on AWS and feel like Vienna actually downplayed the AWS. We know what a strong partnership it is at every Amazon show we go to, and we got a lot of them Now there's a big presence there, and I can talk to customers that are starting to roll out and move there, but it felt like it was David's. You pointed out there are some messaging differences when you talk about multi cloud and how they're positioning it. So, you know, put those >> here Amazon. If your Amazon you're not happy with Microsoft Dell Technologies World The big announcement that was positioned a cloud foundation Although it wasn't a joint engineering, But the press picked it up as though the Amazon deal has been replicated with Microsoft and Google. I mean, you gotta be gotta be hurt if your Amazon >> So I've I've just been taking notes this this event, there's I've noted at least five major points of difference between a W s what they're saying and their philosophy and the anywhere so eight of us. We know they they don't talk multi cloud. They've told their partners, If you're doing joint marketing with us, you cannot say multi cloud aws that reinforce John. We saw this. Steven Schmidt said that this narrative that security is broken doesn't help the industry. Security's not broken, you know, we're doing great. The state of the nation is wonderful. Aws Matt. Not really. I agree. By the way. Uh, that's not the case. I agree with Pat saying Security's broken. It's a do over VM where wants to be the best infrastructure and developer software company. Who's the best infrastructure and software development platform. Eight of us. The M one wants to be the security cloud. Who's the security cloud? Eight of us. And then, uh, they talked about 10,000 cloud data Listeners are those really cloud data centers at Vienna. And the last one was this was a little nuanced Veum was talking about We know about migrating, modernize, lifted ship shift and then modernize The empire's not talking about modernize and then migrate. If you want to. I totally in conflict >> as a collision course. That's got Look, look, look at the data center was Look, it looks like we're going. We're going away, right to the data center. Staying. That's music to Michael Dell's VM. Where's years they live in the Data City? Do you pointed out yesterday? Data Senate goes away. So does begin. Where's business? >> One of things. I'm surprised. I'm wondering you both have talked to some of the service fighter telco pieces of'em, where they're doing that project dimension, which is the VM where stack on del that looks just like outposts on. And I know they had deployments on this for months. If I was them, you know, it's everybody's hearing about Outpost to talk about it, being more like we're already doing it in. This has you in that Amazon ecosystem. It might be a little strong for the Amazon story, but have you been hearing any about that this week? >> I think they keep a lot of cards close to the chest, but it's clear from the announces that they're doing certainly del the VM, where on Delhi Emcee Cloud or whatever it's called, it's not a cloud but their their infrastructure that is essentially a managed service. That's gonna be really strong for I t. People, because I think that the value proposition of going toe i t and saying we have this, you don't need to do anything. It's very strong, I mean, because I didn't want him >> and justified because this the project to mention it is that single, that thinner stack like what we saw on Outpost in the Amazon video, as opposed to Veum, where cloud on AWS, which is the full C i r h d. I stack. >> I haven't heard anything still on >> well, but the conversation I had from from Vienna, where standpoint, they could make money on that manage service. That's why it's the preferred partnership, right? And so that's their part of their cloud play. If you don't have a public cloud, I said this yesterday, you have to redefine Cloud and you have to get into cloud service. And that's what's happening. And that's exactly what's happening. And what I like about what V M where is doing is they are transitioning their model to a sass based model. Now it's only 12 and 1/2 percent of the revenues today. But both pivotal and carbon black are gonna add, you know, ah, $1,000,000,000 next year to that subscription based $3 billion in year two. Um, and so you know, Pat said the other day, I think we could get to 50 50. I don't necessarily think in the near term we're gonna go beyond that. It's not the Adobe >> way could be critical. Critical of'em were in some areas, but I gotta tell you their core strength that they went to a software operators on the data center friend of prices. That's been a great strategy. Focusing on their core building from there is Jerry 10 point out adding other products so their software company, So I think they're really got a good solution. And you? The data shows that people are increasing their spending, John. Just one based on >> that. Because I had a couple of really good conversation with customers, customers that would deploy VCF So they've got the full stack on there. So using H C I, but not necessarily on Dell hardware, could be Cisco Hardware. Could be HB hardware in the like or they're buying NSX. But the virtual ization team owns it, and they get kind of put in. A box storage team says That's not the array I'm used to buy. Well, maybe I'll put a pure storage box and put it in between. The networking team says I'm refreshing my Cisco hardware. You know, we're like, but we have NSX, and it's great. Well, you can use NSX over there. We're going to use a C I over here. So the term I heard from a number of customers is organizations still have hardware to find roles, and they're trying to figure out how to move to that software world. Which hurts me, cause I spent years trying to get beyond silos and helping people you know, move through those environments. And still, in 2019 it's a big challenge. That organizational shift is we know how tough that is. >> So just couple points in the data, because you're right. There are some countervailing trends, though. So, yes, people are spending Maurin VM where in the second half. But at the same time, the data shows that cloud is hurting VM wear spend. So this that's kind of gets interesting. Our containers gonna kill VM where? No, there's no evidence that container's air hurting VM where spend. But there's clearly risks there, you know, as we've talked about who's best position of multi cloud. Well, it turns out three guys with the public cloud are best positioned in multi Google and Microsoft on, and so and then the pivotal thing is interesting, and ties ties all this in so that the data is actually really interesting. It's like you're seeing tugs at both sides, and I think your your notion about the seawall is dead on. That's exactly what they're doing. >> You see that with Oracle's trying to stop jet. I just want they can't win this one to stop Amazon just on the tracks gave great data. Great reporting, Stoop. Good observations. Get all the day that night and parties we're gonna certainly keep doing that. Day three of wall to wall coverage here. You bringing to the insights and interviews here live from the Emerald Twin 19. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Live Cube coverage of the emerald 2019 were here in San Francisco, California Mosconi North Lobby. Two sets Our 10th year covering the emerald in our 20th year of Of of our seasons of covering Me to be enterprised Tech. I'm Jeffrey Day Volonte student Justin Warren breaking down day to Cube insights segment. Dave's Do You Do You're on Set Valley set this the meadow set because it's got the steamboat chirping birds behind us. Justin, you've been doing some interviews out on the floor as well. Checking the story's out. All the news is out. Day one was all the big corporate stuff. Today was the product technology news stew. I'll go to you first. What's the assessment on your take on the M, where obviously they're reinventing themselves? Jerry Chen, who we interviewed, said this is Act three of'em where they keep on adding more and more prostitute their core, your thoughts on what's going on. >> So the biggest whore I've seen is the discussion of Tom Zoo, which really talking those cloud native applications. And if you break down VM wear, it's like many companies that said, There's the, you know, core product of the company. It is vey sphere. It is the legacy for what we have and it's not going anywhere, and it's changing. But, you know, then there's the modernization project Pacific howto a bridge to the multi cloud world. How do I bridge Kubernetes is going to come into the sphere and do that? But then there's the application world into the thing I've been. You know, the existential threat to VM, where I've been talking about forever is if we sas if I and cloud If I and all the APS go away, the data centers disappear in Vienna, where dominant, the data center is left out in the cold. So, you know, Pivotal was driving down that that path. They've done a lot of acquisitions, so love directionally where towns who's going time will tell whether they can play in that market. This is not a developer conference. We go to plenty of developer events, so, you know, that's you know, some of the places. I see you know, and and still, you know, >> narrator conference. You're right. Exactly Right. And just I want to get your thoughts, too, because you've been blocking heavily on this topic as well. Dev Ops in general, commenting on the Cube. You know, the reality and the reality, Uh, and the reality of situation from the the announcement. That's a vapor. They're doing some demos. They're really product directions. So product directions is always with VM. Where does it? It's not something that their shameful love, that's what they do. That's what they put out. It's not bakery >> company. It's a statement, A statement of >> direction. We were talking hybrid cloud in 2012 when I asked Pet guess it was a halfway house. He blew a gasket. And now, five years later, the gestation period for hybrid was that. But the end was happy to have the data center back in the back. In the play here, your thoughts on >> Yeah. So this conference is is, I think, a refreshing return to form. So, Vienna, where is as you say, this is an operators conference in Vienna. Where is for operators? It's not Four Dev's. There was a period there where cloud was scary And it was all this cloud native stuff in Vienna where tried to appeal to this new market, I guess tried to dress up and as something that it really wasn't and it didn't pull it off and we didn't It didn't feel right. And now Veum Way has decided that Well, no, actually, this is what they and where is about. And no one could be more Veum where than VM wear. So it's returning to being its best self. And I think you >> can software. They know software >> they know. So flick. So the addition of putting predict Enzo in and having communities in there, and it's to operate the software. So it's it's going to be in there an actual run on it, and they wanna have kubernetes baked into the sphere. So that now, yeah, we'll have new a new absent. Yeah, there might be SAS eps for the people who are consuming them, but they're gonna run somewhere. And now we could run them on van. Wait. Whether it's on Silent at the edge could be in the cloud your Veum wear on eight of us. >> David David so I want to get your thoughts just don't want to jump into because, you know, I love pivotal what they've done. I've always felt as a standalone company they probably couldn't compete with Amazon to scale what's going on in the other things. But bring it back in the fold in VM, where you mentioned this a couple of our interviews yesterday, Dave, and still you illuminate to to the fact of the cloud native world coming together. It's better inside VM wear because they can package pivotal and not have to bet the ranch on the outcome in the marketplace where this highly competitive statements out there so you get the business value of Pivotal. The upside now can be managed. Do your thoughts first, then go to date >> about Pivotal. Yeah, as >> an integrated, integrated is better for the industry than trying to bet the ranch on a pier play >> right? So, John, yesterday we had a little discussion about hybrid and multi cloud and still early about there, but the conversation of past five years ago was very different from the discussion. Today, Docker had a ripple effect with Containers and Veum. Where is addressing that and it made sense for Pivotal Cut to come home, if you will. They still have the Pivotal Labs group that can work with customers going through that transformation and a number of other pieces toe put together. But you ve m where is doing a good enough job to give customers the comfort that we can move you forward to the cloud. You don't have to abandon us and especially all those people that do VM Where is they don't have to be frozen where they are >> a business value. >> Well, I think you've got to start with the transaction and provide a historical context. So this goes back to what I used to call the misfit toys. The Federation. David Golden's taking bits and pieces of of of Dragon Pearl of assets in side of E, M. C and V M wear and then creating Pivotal out of whole cloth. They need an I P O. Michael Dell maintained 70% ownership of the company and 96% voting shares floated. The stock stock didn't do well, bought it back on 50 cents on the dollar. A so what the AIPO price was and then took a of Got a Brit, brought back a $4 billion asset inside of the M wear and paid $900 million for it. So it's just the brilliant financial transaction now, having said all that, what is the business value of this? You know, when I come to these shows, I'd liketo compare what they say in the messaging and the keynotes to what practitioners are saying in the practitioners last night were saying a couple of things. First of all, they're concerned about all the salmon. A like one. Practitioners said to me, Look, if it weren't for all these acquisitions that they announced last minute, what would we be hearing about here? It would have been NSX and V san again, so there's sort of a little concerns there. Some of the practitioners I talked to were really concerned about integration. They've done a good job with Nasasira, but some of the other acquisitions that they may have taken longer to integrate and customers are concerned, and we've seen this movie before. We saw the DMC. We certainly saw the tell. We're seeing it again now, at the end where Veum where? Well, they're very good at integrating companies. Sometimes that catches up to you. The last thing I'll say is we've been pushing You just mentioned it, Justin. On Dev's not a deaf show. Pivotal gives VM where the opportunity to whether it's a different show are an event within the event to actually attract the depths. But I would say in the multi cloud world, VM wears sitting in a good position. With the exception of developers pivotal, I think it's designed to solve that problem. Just tell >> your thoughts. >> Do you think that Veum, where is, is at risk of becoming a portfolio company just like a M A. M. C. Watts? Because it certainly looks at the moment to me like we look at all the different names for things, and I just look at the brand architecture of stuff. There are too many brands. There are too many product names, it's too confusing, and there's gonna have to be a culottes some point just to make it understandable for customers. Otherwise, we're just gonna end up with this endless sprawl, and we saw what the damage that did it. At present, I am saying >> it's a great point and Joseph Joe to cheese used to say that overlap is better than gaps, and I and I agree with him to appoint, you know better until it's not. And then Michael Dell came in and Bar came and said, Look, if we're gonna compete with Amazon's cost structure, we have to clean this mess up and that's what they've been doing it a lot of hard work on that. And so, yeah, they do risk that. I think if they don't do that integration, it's hard to do that. Integration, as you know, it takes time. Um, and so I have Right now. All looks good, right? Right down the middle. As you say, John, are >> multi cloud. Big topic gestation period is going to take five years to seven years. When the reality multi cloud a debate on Twitter last night, someone saying, I'm doing multi cloud today. I mean, we had Gelsinger's layout, the definition of multi cloud. >> Well, he laid out his definition definition. Everyone likes to define its. It's funny how, and we mentioned this is a stew and I earlier on the other set, cloud were still arguing about what cloud means exit always at multi cloud, which kind of multi cloud is a hybrid bowl over. And then you compare that to EJ computing, which computing was always going on. And then someone just came along and gave it a name and everyone just went, huh? OK, and go on with their lives. And so why is cloud so different and difficult for people to agree on what the thing is? >> There's a lot of money being made and lost, That's why >> right day the thing I've said is for multi cloud to be a real thing, it needs to be more valuable to a customer than the sum of its pieces on. And, you know, we know we're gonna be an Amazon reinvent later this year we will be talking, you know? Well, they will not be talking multi cloud. We might be talking about it, but >> they'll be hinting to hybrid cloud may or may not say >> that, you know, hybrid is okay in their world with outpost and everything they're doing in there partnering with VM wear. But you know, the point I've been looking at here is you know, management of multi vendor was atrocious. And, you know, why do we think we're going to any better. David, who hired me nine years ago. It was like I could spend my entire career saying, Management stinks and security needs to be, >> you know, So I want to share lawyers definition. They published in Wicked Bon on Multiply Multi Cloud Hybrid Cloudy, Putting together True Hybrid Cloud Multiply Any application application service can run on any node of the hybrid cloud without rewriting, re compiling or retesting. True hybrid cloud architectures have a consistent set of hardware. Software service is a P I is with integrated network security data and control planes that are native to and display the characteristics of public cloud infrastructure is a service. These attributes could be identically resident on other hybrid nodes independent of location, for example, including on public clouds on Prem or at the edge. That ain't happening. It's just not unless you have considered outposts cloud a customer azure stack. Okay, and you're gonna have collections of those. So that vision that he laid out, I just I think it's gonna >> be David. It's interesting because, you know, David and I have some good debates on this. I said, Tell me a company that has been better at than VM wear about taking a stack and letting it live on multiple hardware's. You know, I've got some of those cars are at a big piece last weekend talking about, you know, when we had to check the bios of everything and when blade Service rolled out getting Veum whereto work 15 years ago was really tough. Getting Veum were to work today, but the >> problem is you're gonna have outposts. You're gonna have project dimensions installed. You're gonna have azure stacks installed. You're gonna have roll your own out there. And so yeah, VM where is gonna work on all >> those? And it's not gonna be a static situation because, you know, when I talk to customers and if they're using V M where cloud on AWS, it's not a lift and shift and leave it there, Gonna modernize their things that could start using service is from the public cloud and they might migrate some of these off of the VM where environment, which I think, is the thing that I am talking to customers and hearing about that It's, you know, none of these situations are Oh, I just put it there and it's gonna live there for years. It's constantly moving and changing, and that is a major threat to VM wears multi clouds, >> Traffic pushes. Is it technically feasible without just insanely high degrees of homogeneity? That's that's the question. >> I I don't think it is and or not. I don't think it's a reasonable thing to expect anyway, because any enterprise you have any M and a activity, and all of a sudden you've got more than one that's always been true, and it will always be true. So if someone else makes a different choice and you buy them, then we'll have both. >> So maybe that's not a fair definition, but that's kind of what what? One could infer that. I think the industry is implying that that is hybrid multi club because that's the nirvana that everybody wants. >> Yeah, the only situation I can see where that could maybe come true would be in something like communities where you're running things on as an abstraction on top off everything else, and that that is a common abstraction that everyone agrees on and builds upon. But we're already seeing how that works out in real life. If >> I'm >> using and Google Antos. I can't easily move it to P. K s or open shift. There's English Kubernetes, as Joe Beta says, is not a magic layer, and everybody builds. On top of >> it, is it? Turns out it's actually not that easy. >> Well, and plus people are taken open source code, and then they're forking it and it building their own proprietary systems and saying, Hey, here's our greatest thing. >> Well, the to the to the credit of CNC, if Kubernetes. Does have a kind of standardized, agreed to get away away from that particular issue. So that's where it stands a better chance and say unfortunately, open stack. So because we saw a bit of that change of way, want to go this way? And we want to go that way. So there's a lot of seeing and zagging, at least with communities. You have a kind of common framework. But even just the implementation of that writing it, >> I love Cooper. I think I've been a big fan of committed from Day one. I think it's a great industry initiative. Having it the way it's rolling out is looking very good. I like it a lot. The comments that we heard on the Cube of Support. Some of my things that I'm looking at is for C N C s Q. Khan Come coop con Coming up is what happened with Kay, native and SDO because that's what I get to see the battleground for above Goober Netease. You see, that's what differentiates again. That's where that the vendors are gonna start to differentiate who they are. So I think carbonates. It could be a great thing. And I think what I learned here was virtualization underneath Kubernetes. It doesn't matter if you want to run a lot. Of'em Furat scale No big deal run Cooper's on top. You want to run in that bare metal? God bless you, >> Go for it. I think this use cases for both. >> That's why I particularly like Tenzer is because for those customers who wanna have a bit of this, cupidity is I don't want to run it myself. It's too hard. But if I trust Vienna where to be able to run that in to upgrade it and give me all of the goodness about operating it in the same way that I do the end where again we're in and I'll show. So now I can have stuff I already know in love, and I can answer incriminating on top of it. >> All right, But who's gonna mess up Multi clouds do. Who's the vendor? I'm not >> even saying it s so you can't mess up something that >> who's gonna think vision, this vision of multi cloud that the entire industry is putting forth who's gonna throw a monkey? The rich? Which vendor? Well, screw it. So >> you know, licensing usually can cause issues. You know, our friend Corey Crane with a nice article about Microsoft's licensing changes there. You know, there are >> lots of Amazon's plays. Oh, yeah. Okay. Amazon is gonna make it. >> A multi clock is not in the mob, >> but yet how could you do multi cloud without Amazon? >> They play with >> control. My the chessboard on my line has been Amazon is in every multi cloud because if you've got multiple clouds, there's a much greater than likely chance >> I haven't been. You know, my feeling is in looking at the history of how multi vendor of all from the I T industry from proprietary network operating systems, many computers toe open systems, D c P I P Web, etcetera. What's going on now is very interesting, and I think the sea so ce of the canary in the coal mine, not Cee Io's because they like multi vendor. They want multiple clouds. They're comfortable that they got staff for that si sos have pressure, security. They're the canary in the coal mine and all the seasons lights, while two are all saying multi clouds b s because they're building stacks internally and they want to create their own technology for security reasons and then build a P eyes and make a P. I's the supplier relationship and saying, Hey, supplier, if you want to work with me, me support my stack I think that is an interesting indication. What that means is that the entire multi cloud thing means we're pick one clown build on, have a backup. We'll deal with multiple clouds if there's workloads in there but primary one cloud, we'll be there. And I think that's gonna be the model. Yes, still be multiple clouds and you got azure and get office 3 65 That's technically multi cloud, >> but I want to make a point. And when pats on we joke about The cul de sac is hybrid cloud a cul de sac, and you've been very respectful and basically saying Yap had okay, But But But you were right, Really. What's hybrid would show me a hybrid cloud. It's taken all this time to gestate you where you see Federated Applications. It's happening. You have on prim workloads, and you have a company that has public cloud workloads. But they're not. Hybrid is >> the region. Some we'll talk about it, even multi. It is an application per cloud or a couple of clouds that you do it, but it's right. Did he follow the sun thing? That we might get there 15 years ago? Is >> no. You're gonna have to insist that this >> data moving around, consistent >> security, governance and all the organizational edicts across all those platforms >> the one place, like all week for that eventually and this is a long way off would be if you go with Serverless where it's all functions and now it's about service composition and I don't care where it lives. I'm just consuming a service because I have some data that I want to go on process and Google happens to have the best machine learning that I need to do it on that data. Also use that service. And then when I actually want to run the workload and host it somewhere else, I drop it into a CD in with an application that happens to run in AWS. >> Guys wrapping up day to buy It's just gonna ask, What is that animal? It must be an influence because hasn't said a word. >> Thistles. The famous blue cow She travels everywhere with me, >> has an INSTAGRAM account. >> She used to have an instagram. She now she doesn't. She just uses my Twitter account just in time to time. >> I learned a lot about you right now. Thanks for sharing. Great to have you. Great as always, Great commentary. Thanks for coming with Bay three tomorrow. Tomorrow. I want to dig into what's in this for Del Technologies. What's the play there when I unpacked, that is tomorrow on day three million. If there's no multi cloud and there's a big tam out there, what's in it for Michael Dell and BM where it's Crown Jewel as the main ingredient guys, thanks for coming stupid in Manchester words, David Want them? John, Thanks for watching day, too. Inside coverage here are wrap up. Thanks for watching