>>Hello, everyone. Welcome to the cubes coverage, extended coverage of the V IP gala event. Earlier in the day, we were at the Monaco crypto summit, where we had 11 years, all the fault leaders here in MoCo coming together. It's a global event. It's an inner circle. It's a beginning, it's an ELG overall event. It's a kernel of the best of the best from finance entrepreneurship government coming together here with the gala event at the yacht club in Monaco. And we got a great lineup here. We have Sherman elder wish from decentralized investment group here with me. She and I was just talking and we're gonna have a great conversation. Welcome to the cube. Thank >>You so much. Thank you for having me. >>It's kind of our laid back to not only have an anchored desk, but we're kind of have conversations. You know, one of the things that we've been talking about is, you know, the technology innovation around decentralized, right? You've been an entrepreneur 9, 9, 9 years. Yes. Plus you're in a region of the world right now where it's exploding. You're in Dubai. Tell your story. You're in Dubai. There's a lot of action what's happening. >>So to Dubai is, is really the bridge between the east and the west. And it's grown. I've, I've had the privilege of witnessing Dubai's growth for over 16 years now. So I've been based in Dubai for 16 years. I'm originally from Jordan, lived in 11 countries. You can call me a global nomad home is where my suitcases and where I, you know, where I'm, I'm literally with my friends and community and the work that I do. So I've been there and I've witnessed this grow through working with the government there as well. So nine years ago, I jumped into the world of entrepreneurship. I specialize in art and education. Also, I work extensively now in decentralized with decentralized investment group. So we specialize in defi game five and also digital assets. So it's a beautiful time to be in Dubai right now. And witness that growth in web three, there's going to be a summit that's actually happening in September. And so it's attracting all the global leaders there with the government there. So they're really investing in, >>You know, the date on that. >>Sorry, >>You know the date on that? Yeah. Oh, >>September. They're going to be September, either 27th or >>28th. So later in the month, >>Yes. Later in the month of September. Okay. So it's very exciting to be a part >>Of that. Well, I love you're on here cause I want, first of all, you look fabulous. Great. Oh, thank you. Great event. Everyone's dressed up here. But one of the things I've been passionate about is women in tech. And I know you've got a project now you're working on this. Yes. Not only because it's it's needed. Yeah, but they're taking over. There's a lot of growth. Absolutely. The young entrepreneurs, young practitioners, absolutely young women all around the world. Absolutely. And we did a five region women in tech on March 7th with Stanford university, amazing. And Amazon web services. And I couldn't believe the stories. So we're gonna do more. And I want to get your take on this because there are stories that need to be told. Absolutely. What are, what are the, some of the stories that you're seeing, some of the, some of the cautionary tales, some of the successes, >>Well, you have, I mean the middle east right now is really a space, especially in Dubai, in the UAE, the growth of women in entrepreneurship, the support that we have from incubators, there, there is a hunger for growth and learning and innovation. And that is the beauty of being there. There are so many incredible stories, not one that I could say right now, but each and every story is exquisite and extraordinary. And what's really amazing is that you have the community there that supports one another, especially women in tech. I'm, I'm actually one of the co-founders of made for you global, which is a tech platform, which attracts entrepreneurship, female entrepreneurs, and really helping them kind of grow to their potential or maximize their potential. And we're actually going to have it on web three as well and integrate it within the blockchain. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of passion for, for growth in women, in tech and, and there's so many incredible stories to come, not just one, so many. And I invite you to come to Dubai so I can introduce you to all >>These incredible. So I'm really glad you're inclusive about men. >>Of course, we're inclusive >>About men, >>You know, men and women. I mean, it's a community that brings together these ideas. >>Yeah. I will say I had to go the microphone one time because I love doing the Stanford women in data science, but they, and we have female, a host. I just wanna do the interviews right there. So smart. I said, Chuck, can we have the female interviews cuz you know, like, okay, but they included me. Oh yes. But in all serious. Now this is a major force because women entrepreneurship make up 50% of the, the target audience of all products. Absolutely. So if, why, why isn't there more developers and input into the products and policies, right? That shape our society. This has been one of those head scratching moments and we're making progress, but not fast enough. >>Absolutely. And you know what, especially after COVID, so after COVID we all learned the lessons of the hybrid models of being more flexible of being more innovative of being making use of our time more effectively. And we've witnessed like an increase in women in tech over the years and especially in web three and decentralized investment group invest heavily into women and in tech as well, >>Give some examples of some things you're working on right now, projects you're investing in. So >>We're, well, everything that we do is inclusive of women. So with game five, for example, we specialize greatly in game five through our subsidiary company, based in the us, it's called X, Y, Z, Z Y it's gaming. And actually many of our creative team are women who are the developers behind the scenes who are bringing it to life. A lot of basically we're trying to educate the public as well about how to get meta mask wallets and to enter into this field. It's all about education and growing that momentum to be able to be more and more inclusive. >>Do you think you can help us get a cube host out there? Of course, of course they gotta be dynamic. Of course smart of course and no teleprompter of >>Course. And we would love for you to come so that we can really introduce you to >>All well now, now that COVID is over. We got a big plan on going cube global, digging it out in 2019, we had London, Bahrain, Singapore, amazing Dubai, Korea. Amazing. And so we wanted to really get out there and create a node, right? And open source kind of vibe where right. The folks all around the world can connect through the network effects. And one thing I noticed about the women in tech, especially in your area is the networking is really high velocity. Absolutely people like the network out there is that, do you see that as well? Absolutely. >>Because it's a, it's a city of transition, you know? So that's the beauty of Dubai, it's positioning power. And also it's a very innovative hub. And so with all of these summits that are coming up, it's attracting the communities and there's lots of networking that happens there. And I think more and more we're seeing with web three is that it is all about the community. It's all about bringing everyone together. >>Well, we got people walking through the sets. See, that's the thing that about a cocktail party. You got people walking through the set that's good. Made, had some color. Rachel Wolfson is in the house. Rachel is here. That's Rachel Woodson. If you didn't recognize her she's with coin Telegraph. Oh bless. I don't know who they, the Glo is as they say, but that's how he went cool to me. All right. So betting back to kinda what you're working on. Have you been to Silicon valley lately? Because you're seeing a lot of peering where people are looking at web three and saying, Hey, Silicon valley is going through a transition too. You're seeing beacons of outposts, right? Where you got people moving to Miami, you got Dubai, you got Singapore, you got, you know, Japan, all these countries. Now there's a, there's a network effect. >>Absolutely. It's all about. And honestly, when I see, I mean, I've been to Miami so many times this year for all the web three events and also in Austin and GTC as well. And what you see is that there is this ripple effect that's happening and it is attracting more and more momentum because the conversations are there and the openness to work together. It's all about partnerships and collaboration. This is a field which is based on collaboration communities. >>Awesome. What are some of the advice advice you have for women out there that are watching around being an entrepreneur? Because we were talking before we came on camera about it's hard. It's not easy. It's not for the faint of heart. Yeah. As Theresa Carlson, a friend of mine used, used to say all the time entrepreneurship was a rollercoaster. Of course, what's your advice don't give up or stay strong. What's your point of view? >>Honestly, if you're passionate about what you do. And I know it sounds very cliche. It's really important to stay focused, moving forward, always. And really it's about partnerships. It's about the ability to network. It's the ability to fail as well. Yeah. And to learn from your mistakes and to know when to ask for help. A lot of the times, you know, we shy away from asking for help or because we're embarrassed, but we need to be more open to failing, to growing and to also collaborating with one another. >>Okay. So final question for you while I got, by the way, you're an awesome guest. Oh, thank you. What are you what's next for you? What are you working on right now? Next year? What's on your goal list. What's your project? What's >>Your top goal? Oh my gosh. >>Top three, >>Top three, definitely immersing myself more into web three. Web three is definitely the future getting made for you global on the ground and running in terms of the networking aspect in a female entrepreneurship, more and more giving back as well. So using web three for social good. So a lot more charitable, innovative kind of campaigns that we hope to host within the web three community to be able to educate, to innovate and also help those that are, that need it the most as >>Well. Shaman, thank you for coming on the cube. I really appreciate it. And thanks for coming on. Thank you >>So much. >>I'm so grateful. Okay. You watching the queue, we're back in the more coverage here at the after party of the event, it's the VIP gala with prince Albert and all the top guests in Monica leaning into crypto I'm John furier. Thanks for watching.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with our leaders all around the world. This is theCUBE conversation. >> Welcome to theCUBE and the special IBM Brocade panel. I'm Lisa Martin. And I'm having a great opportunity here to sit down for the next 20 minutes with three gentlemen please welcome Brian Sherman a distinguished engineer from IBM, Brian, great to have you joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Matt key here. Flash systems SME from IBM, Matt, happy Friday. >> Happy Friday, Lisa. Thanks for having us. >> Our pleasure. And AIG Customer solution here from Brocade is here. AJ welcome. >> Thanks for having me along. >> AJ we're going to stick with you, IBM and Brocade have had a very long you said about 22 year strategic partnership. There's some new news. And in terms of the evolution of that talk to us about what's going on with with Brocade IBM and what is new in the storage industry? >> Yeah, so the the newest thing for us at the moment is that IBM just in mid-October launched our Gen seven platforms. So this is think about the stresses that are going on in the IT environments. This is our attempt to keep pace with with the performance levels that the IBM teams are now putting into their storage environments the All-Flash Data Centers and the new technologies around non-volatile memory express. So that's really, what's driving this along with the desire to say, "You know what people aren't allowed "to be in the data center." And so if they can't be in the data center then the fabrics actually have to be able to figure out what's going on and basically provide a lot of the automation pieces. So something we're referring to as the autonomous SAM. >> And we're going to dig into NBME of our fabrics in a second but I do want to AJ continue with you in terms of industries, financial services, healthcare airlines there's the biggest users, biggest need. >> Pretty much across the board. So if you look at the global 2000 as an example, something on the order of about 96, 97% of the global 2000 make use of fiber channel environments and in portions of their world generally tends to be a lot of the high end financial guys, a lot of the pharmaceutical guys, the automotive, the telcos, pretty much if the data matters, and it's something that's critical whether we talk about payment card information or healthcare environments, data that absolutely has to be retained, has to get there, has to perform then it's this combination that we're bringing together today around the new storage elements and the functionalities they have there. And then our ability in the fabric. So the concept of a 64 gig environment to help basically not be the bottleneck in the application demands, 'cause one thing I can promise you after 40 years in this industry is the software guys always figure out how to all the performance that the hardware guys put on the shelf, right? Every single time. >> Well there's gauntlet thrown down there. Matt, let's go to you. I want to get IBM's perspective on this. Again, as we said, a 22 year strategic partnership, as we look at things like not being able to get into the data center during these unprecedented times and also the need to be able to remove some of those bottlenecks how does IBM view this? >> Yeah, totally. It's certainly a case of raising the bar, right? So we have to as a vendor continue to evolve in terms of performance, in terms of capacity, cost density, escalating simplicity, because it's not just a case of not be able to touch the rates, but there's fewer people not being able to adjust the rates, right? It's a case where our operational density continues to have to evolve being able to raise the bar on the network and be able to still saturate those line rates and be able to provide that simply a cost efficiency that gets us to a utilization that raises the bar from our per capita ratio from not just talking about 200, 300 terabytes per admin but going beyond the petabyte scale per admin. And we can't do that unless people have access to the data. And we have to provide the resiliency. We have to provide the simplicity of presentation and automation from our side. And then this collaboration that we do with our network brother like Brocade here continued to stay out of the discussion when it comes to talking about networks and who threw the ball next. So we truly appreciate this Gen seven launch that they're doing we're happy to come in and fill that pipe on the flash side for them. >> Excellent and Brian as a distinguished engineer and let me get your perspectives on the evolution of the technology over this 22 year partnership. >> Thanks Lisa. It certainly has been a longstanding, a great relationship, great partnership all the way from inventing joint things, to developing, to testing and deploying to different technologies through the course of time. And it's been one of those that where we are today, like AJ had talked about being able to sustain what the applications require today in this always on time type of environment. And as Matt said, bringing together the density and operational simplicity to make that happen 'cause we have to make it easier from the storage side for operations to be able to manage this volume of data that we have coming out and our due diligence is to be able to serve the data up as fast as we can and as resilient as we can. >> And so sticking with you, Brian that simplicity is key because as we know as we get more and more advances in technology the IT environment is only becoming more complex. So really truly enabling organizations in any industry to simplify is absolute table stakes. >> Yeah, it definitely is. And that's core to what we're focused on and how do we make the storage environment simple. It's been one those through the years and historically, we've had entry-level us and the industry as a whole, is that an entry-level product mid range level products, high-end level products. And earlier this year, we said enough, enough of that it's one product portfolio. So it's the same software stack it's just, okay. Small, medium and large in terms of the appliances that get delivered. Again, building on what Matt said, from a density perspective where we can have a petabyte of uncompressed and data reduced storage in a two Enclosure. So it becomes from a overall administration perspective, again, one software stake, one automation stack, one way to do point in time copies, replication. So in focusing on how to make that as simple for the operations as we possibly can. >> I think we'd all take a little bit of that right now. Matt, let's go to you and then AJ view, let's talk a little bit more, dig into the IBM storage arrays. I mean, we're talking about advances in flash, we're talking about NBME as a forcing function for applications to change and evolve with the storage. Matt, give us your thoughts on that. >> We saw a monumental leap in where we take some simplicity pieces from how we deliver our arrays but also the technology within the arrays. About nine months ago, in February we launched into the latest generation of non technology and with that born the story of simplicity one of the pieces that we've been happily essentially negating of value prop is storage level tiering and be able to say, "Hey, well we still support the idea of going down "to near line SaaS and enterprise disc in different flavors "of solid state whether it's tier one short usage "the tier zero high performance, high usage, "all the way up to storage class memory." While we support those technologies and the automated tiering, this elegance of what we've done as latest generation technology that we launched nine months ago has been able to essentially homogenize the environments to we're able to deliver that petabyte per rack unit ratio that Brian was mentioning be able to deliver over into all tier zero solution that doesn't have to go through woes of software managed data reduction or any kind of software managed hearing just to be always fast, always essentially available from a 100% data availability guaranteed that we offer through a technology called hyper swap, but it's really kind of highlighting what we take in from that simplicity story, by going into that extra mile and meeting the market in technology refresh. I mean, if you say the words IBM over the Thanksgiving table, you're kind of thinking, how big blue, big mainframe, old iron stuff but it's very happy to say over in distributed systems that we are in fact leading this pack by multiple months not just the fact that, "Hey, we announced sooner." But actually coming to delivering on-prem the actual solution itself nine, 10 months prior to anybody else and when that gets us into new density flavors gets us into new efficiency offerings. Not just talk about, "Hey, I can do this petabyte scale "a couple of rack units but with the likes of Brocade." That actually equates to a terabyte per second and a floor tile, what's that do for your analytics story? And the fact that we're now leveraging NBME to undercut the value prop of spinning disc in your HBC analytics environments by five X, that's huge. So now let's take near line SaaS off the table for anything that's actually per data of an angle of value to us. So in simplicity elements, what we're doing now will be able to make our own flash we've been deriving from the tech memory systems acquisition eight years ago and then integrating that into some essentially industry proven software solutions that we do with the bird flies. That appliance form factor has been absolutely monumental for us in the distributed systems. >> And thanks for giving us a topic to discuss at our socially distant Thanksgiving table. We'll talk about IBM. I know now I have great, great conversation. AJ over to you lot of advances here also in such a dynamic times, I want to get Brocade's perspective on how you're taking advantage of these latest technologies with IBM and also from a customer's perspective, what are they feeling and really being able to embrace and utilize that simplicity that Matt talked about. >> So there's a couple of things that fall into that to be honest, one of which is that similar to what you heard Brian described across the IBM portfolio for storage in our SaaS infrastructure. It's a single operating system up and down the line. So from the most entry-level platform we have to the largest platform we have it's a single software up and down. It's a single management environment up and down and it's also intended to be extremely reliable and extremely performance because here's part of the challenge when Matt's talking about multiple petabytes in a two U rack height, but the conversation you want to flip on its head there a little bit is "Okay exactly how many virtual machines "and how many applications are you going to be driving "out of that?" Because it's going to be thousands like between six and 10,000 potentially out of that, right? So imagine then if you have some sort of little hiccup in the connectivity to the data store for 6,000 to 10,000 applications, that's not the kind of thing that people get forgiving about. When we're all home like this. When your healthcare, when your finance, when your entertainment, when everything is coming to you across the network and remotely in this version and it's all application driven, the one thing that you want to make sure of is that network doesn't hiccup because humans have a lot of really good characteristics. Patience would not be one of those. And so you want to make sure that everything is in fact in play and running. And that's as one of the things that we work very hard with our friends at IBM to make sure of is that the kinds of analytics that Matt was just describing are things that you can readily get done. Speed is the new currency of business is a phrase you hear from... A quote you hear from Marc Benioff at Salesforce, right. And he's right if you can get data out of intelligence out of the data you've been collecting, that's really cool. But one of the other sort of flip sides on the people not being able to be in the data center and then to Matt's point, not as many people around either is how are humans fast enough when you look... Honestly when you look at the performance of the platforms, these folks are putting up how is human response time going to be good enough? And we all sort of have this headset of a network operations center where you've got a couple dozen people in a half lit room staring at massive screens on the thing to pop. Okay, if the first time a red light pops the human begins the investigation at what point is that going to be good enough? And so our argument for the autonomy piece of of what we're doing in the fabrics is you can't wait on the humans. You need to augment it. I get that people still want to be in charge and that's good. Humans are still smarter than the Silicon. We're not as repeatable, but we're still so far smarter about it. And so we needed to be able to do that measurement. We need to be able to figure out what normal looks like. We need to be able to highlight to the storage platform and to the application admins, when things go sideways because the demand from the applications isn't going to slow down. The demands from your environment whether you want to think about take the next steps with not just your home entertainment home entertainment systems but learning augmented reality, right. Virtual reality environments for kids, right? How do you make them feel like they're part and parcel of the classroom, for as long as we have to continue living a modified world and perhaps past it, right? If you can take a grade school from your local area and give them a virtual walkthrough of the loop where everybody's got a perfect view and it all looks incredibly real to them those are cool things, right? Those are cool applications, right? If you can figure out a new vaccine faster, right. Not a bad thing, right. If we can model better, not a bad thing. So we need to enable those things we need to not be the bottleneck, which is you get Matt and Brian over an adult beverage at some point and ask them about the cycle time for the Silicon they're playing with. We've never had Moore's law applied to external storage before never in the history of external storage. Has that been true until now. And so their cycle times, Matt, right? >> Yeah you struck a nerve there AJ, cause it's pretty simple for us to follow the linear increase in capacity and computational horsepower, right. We just ride the X86 bandwagon, ride the Silicon bandwagon. But what we have to do in order to maintain But what we have to do in order to maintain the simplicity story is followed more important one is the resiliency factor, right? 'Cause as we increased the capacity as we increased the essentially the amount of data responsible for each admin we have to literally log rhythmically increase the resiliency of these boxes because we're going to talk about petabyte scale systems and hosting them really 10,000 virtual machines in the two U form factor. I need to be able to accommodate that to make sure things don't blip. I need resilient networks, right. Have redundancy and access. I need to have protection schemes at every single layer of the stack. And so we're quite happy to be able to provide that as we leapfrog the industry and go in literally situations that are three times the competitive density that we you see out there and other distributed systems that are still bound by the commercial offerings, then, hey we also have to own that risk from a vendor side we have to make these things is actually rate six protection scheme equivalent from a drive standpoint and act back from controllers everywhere. Be able to supply the performance and consistency of that service throughout even the bad situations. >> And to that point, one of the things that you talked about, that's interesting to me that I'd kind of like you to highlight is your recovery times, because bad things will happen. And so you guys do something very, very different about that. That's critical to a lot of my customers because they know that Murphy will show up one day. So, I mean 'cause it happens, so then what. >> Well, speaking of that, then what Brian I want to go over to you. You mentioned Matt mentioned resiliency. And if we think of the situation that we're in in 2020 many companies are used to DR and BC plans for natural disasters, pandemics. So as we look at the shift and then the the volume of ransomware, that's going up one ransomware attack every 11 seconds this year, right now. How Brian what's that change that businesses need to make from from cyber security to cyber resiliency? >> Yeah, it's a good point in, and I try to hammer that home with our clients that, you're used to having your business continuity disaster recovery this whole cyber resiliency thing is a completely separate practice that we have to set up and think about and go through the same thought process that you did for your DR What are you going to do? What are you going to pretest? How are you going to test it? How are you going to detect whether or not you've got ransomware? So I spent a lot of time with our clients on that theme of you have to think about and build your cyber resiliency plan 'cause it's going to happen. It's not like a DR plan where it's a pure insurance policy and went and like you said, every 11 seconds there's an event that takes place. It's going to be a win not then. Yeah and then we have to work with our customers to put in a place for cyber resiliency and then we spent a lot of discussion on, okay what does that mean for my critical applications, from a restore time of backup and mutability. What do we need for those types of services, right? In terms of quick restore, which are my tier zero applications that I need to get back as fast as possible, what other ones can I they'll stick out on tape or virtual tape in and do things like that. So again, there's a wide range of technology that we have available in the in the portfolio for helping our clients from cyber resiliency. And then we try to distinguish that cyber resiliency versus cyber security. So how do we help to keep every, everybody out from a cybersecurity view? And then what can we do from the cyber resiliency, from a storage perspective to help them once once it gets to us, that's a bad thing. So how can we help? How help our folks recover? Well, and that's the point that you're making Brian is that now it's not a matter of, could this happen to us? It's going to, how much can we tolerate? But ultimately we have to be able to recover. We can't restore that data and one of those things when you talk about ransomware and things, we go to that people as the weakest link insecurity AJ talked about that, there's the people. Yeah there's probably quite a bit of lack of patients going on right now. But as we look as I want to go back over to you to kind of look at, from a data center perspective and these storage solutions, being able to utilize things to help the people, AI and Machine Learning. You talked about AR VR. Talk to me a little bit more about that as you see, say in the next 12 months or so as moving forward, these trends these new solutions that are simplified. >> Yeah, so a couple of things around that one of which is iteration of technology the storage platforms the Silicon they're making use of Matt I think you told me 14 months is the roughly the Silicon cycle that you guys are seeing, right? So performance levels are going to continue to go up the speeds. The speeds are going to continue to go up. The scale is going to is going to continue to shift. And one of the things that does for a lot of the application owners is it lets them think broader. It lets them think bigger. And I wish I could tell you that I knew what the next big application was going to be but then we'd be having a conversation about which Island in the Pacific I was going to be retiring too. But they're going to come and they're going to consume this performance because if you look at the applications that you're dealing with in your everyday life, right. They continue to get broader. The scope of them continues to scale out, right. There's things that we do. I saw I think it was an MIT development recently where they're talking about being able to and they were originally doing it for Alzheimer's and dementia, but they're talking about being able to use the microphones in your smartphone to listen to the way you cough and use that as a predictor for people who have COVID that are not symptomatic yet. So asymptomatic COVID people, right? So when we start talking about where this, where this kind of technology can go and where it can lead us, right. There's sort of this unending possibility for it. But what that on, in part is that the infrastructure has to be extremely sound, right? The foundation has to be there. We have to have the resilience, the reliability and one of the points that Brian was just making is extremely key. We talk about disaster tolerance business continuous, so business continuance is how do you recover? Cyber resilience is the same conversation, right? So you have the protection side of it. Here's my defenses. Now what happens when they actually get in. And let's be honest, right? Humans are frequently that weak link, right. For a variety of behaviors that the humans that humans have. And so when that happens, where's the software in the storage that tells you, "Hey, wait there's an odd traffic behavior here "where data is being copied "at rates and to locations that that are not normal." And so that's part of when we talk about what we're doing in our side of the automation is how do you know what normal looks like? And once you know what normal looks like you can figure out where the outliers are. And that's one of the things that people use a lot for trying to determine whether or not ransomware is going on is, "Hey, this is a traffic pattern, that's new. "This is a traffic pattern. "That's different." Are they doing this because they're copying the dataset from here to here and encrypting it as they go, right? 'Cause that's one of the challenges you got to, you got to watch for. So I think you're going to see a lot of advancement in the application space. And not just the MIT stuff, which is great. The fact that people are actually able to or I may have misspoken, maybe Johns Hopkins. And I apologize to the Johns Hopkins folks that kind of scenario, right. There's no knowing what they can make use of here in terms of the data sets, right. Because we're gathering so much data, the internet of things is an overused phrase but the sheer volume of data that's being generated outside of the data center, but manipulated analyzed and stored internally. 'Cause you got to have it someplace secure. Right and that's one of the things that we look at from our side is we've got to be that as close to unbreakable as we can be. And then when things do break able to figure out exactly what happened as rapidly as possible and then the recovery cycle as well. >> Excellent and I want to finish with you. We just have a few seconds left, but as AJ was talking about this massive evolution and applications, for example when we talk about simplicity and we talk about resiliency and being able to recover when something happens, how did these new technologies that we've been unpacking today? How did these help the admin folks deal with all of the dynamics that are happening today? >> Yeah so I think the biggest the drop, the mic thing we can say right now is that we're delivering 100% tier zero in Vme without data reduction value props on top of it at a cost that undercuts off-prem S3 storage. So if you look at what you can do from an off-prem solution for air gap and from cyber resiliency you can put your data somewhere else. And it's going to take whatever long time to transfer that data back on prem, to read get back to your recover point. But when you work at economics that we're doing right now in the distributed systems, hey, you're DR side, your copies of data do not have to wait for that. Off-prem bandwidth to restore. You can actually literally restore it in place. And you couple that with all of the the technology on the software side that integrates with it I get incremental point in time. Recovery is either it's on the primary side of DRS side, wherever, but the fact that we get to approach this thing from a cost value then by all means I can naturally absorb a lot of the cyber resiliency value in that too. And because it's all getting all the same orchestrated capabilities, regardless of the big, small, medium, all that stuff, it's the same skillsets. And so I don't need to really learn new platforms or new solutions to providing cyber resiliency. It's just part of my day-to-day activity because fundamentally all of us have to wear that cyber resiliency hat. But as, as our job, as a vendor is to make that simple make it cost elegance, and be able to provide a essentially a homogenous solutions overall. So, hey, as your business grows, your risk gets averted on your recovery means also get the thwarted essentially by your incumbent solutions and architecture. So it's pretty cool stuff that we're doing, right. >> It is pretty cool. And I'd say a lot of folks would say, that's the Nirvana but I think the message that the three of you have given in the last 20 minutes or so is that IBM and Brocade together. This is a reality. You guys are a cornucopia of knowledge. Brian, Matt, AJ, thank you so much for joining me on this panel I really enjoyed our conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you again Lisa. >> My pleasure. From my guests I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching this IBM Brocade panel on theCUBE.

>> Hi, I'm Kyle Rourke, VP of Platform Strategy here at Snowflake. And I could not be more excited to be here today with Margaret Sherman, who is the Head of Data Strategy for Sonos. Now, all throughout the day-to-day we've been hearing from lots of customers from all over the world and hearing about their journeys and how they've transformed their business by embracing the data cloud. And of course, this next story is one I am personally very excited about because I'm a huge Sonos customer. And I'm sure many of you are as well. >> Thanks Kyle. As you mentioned, I'm the Head of Data Strategy at Sonos. And what that means is that I set the data priorities for the company, as well as guide the company on where to invest now and in the future, to get the most out of our data resources. I've spent about four years at Sonos. Previously I was the head of product data and worked a lot with setting up Snowflake and the IoT data. And I've been in technology for 20 years and the last 10 years I've spent in data analytics and machine learning. >> That's very cool. Now, how does your company view data in general? How do you guys... How does your team fit in, in the overall strategy of how Sonos leverages data? >> Yeah. So Sonos is a sound experience company and we really pioneered multi-room wireless audio. And we made that experience amazing and truly changed how people listen. And our mission is to inspire the world to listen better. And everything that we do is in service to that. And data is a part of that. So we really believe that data is fundamental to helping us achieve our mission. Data helps us build a better business, build better products and ultimately we think it helps us make our customers happier. >> Now, before Snowflake, maybe let's go back in time. You've been at Sonos for the last four years. Maybe go back in time a little bit for the time pre Snowflake. What were some of your challenges that you guys faced before you started with us? >> Yeah, it was really challenging. So I was actually leading the product data team at the time and we use Snowflake primarily for our IoT data. And so we're collecting tons of data, but we're really struggling to leverage it. Essentially what would happen is, if we wanted to answer a single question about what was happening with the customer experience, we would have to have data engineers go and write some code, spin up clusters. This could take weeks just to extract the data and get it into a shape where analysts and scientists could go and work with it. And so we really went from being in a place where it was taking weeks just to answer a single question, to now we can do things in hours. So it really changed things for us. >> Wow. And so the benefits of obviously being able to go act on information very, very quickly. What are some of the other benefits that's driven for you guys? >> I mean, our data people love it, obviously, because if you think about the process of data science, it's very iterative. So you're going to ask a question, you're going to go and investigate your data. You're going to do some data processing, you're going to do some visualizations and then you're going to come up with more questions. You're going to want to dig in. You're going to want to pull more data and you're going to want to join it together, do different cuts and pivots. And before that was just off the table, because as you can imagine, if every time you have to go weeks to go do that, it's just impossible. Whereas now, our data scientists can churn through these problems very quickly. And the data engineers love it because they're not sitting around waiting for jobs to finish for forever. They are able to get through their code faster. And as one of my engineers likes to say, she was telling me, she said, "Snowflake, she's a beast." (Kyle and Margaret laughing) It's like crunching through the data. >> You mentioned IoT. And I think that's obviously a very challenging space for a lot of customers and there's a lot of interest in it. Maybe give me some more thoughts on how much data are you guys are bringing in? Is it small, large? Has the volume been something that you could handle with Snowflake? >> Yeah, I mean, that was why we chose Snowflake. So prior to having Snowflake, we were really struggling with the vol... I mean, we've very large volumes of data, as you can imagine from an IoT device because we're collecting from over 10 million homes across the world. So it's quite a bit of data. And all of that doesn't fit in a traditional sort of data warehouse. We were trying to push some of it into SQL and we were essentially taking just a handful of our telemetry events. And we were boiling them down to daily and weekly aggregates. And even trying to push that into SQL was just too much for it to handle. And with Snowflake, we had processing jobs that were timing out in SQL server after running for hours and hours, and then Snowflake could just crunch through it in a few minutes. So-- >> Kyle: Wow. >> It was, yeah. I mean, I literally almost fell off my chair. (Margaret laughs) They showed me the comparison numbers. >> Well, so now... So it's been a good experience for you, but let's talk about your customers. And I think, I can say as a customer myself, I've always had a great experience with Sonos, it's probably why I keep buying more and more and more of them. But talk to me about how has data really helped you guys drive that customer experience in some very tangible ways? >> As a Sonos customer, we really hope that you enjoy the great sound and freedom of choice and ease of use that the product brings. But obviously behind all of that, behind that really easy experience, it's very complex. You've got a lot going on, when you're interacting with your Sonos system. So, it's not just a single piece of hardware, you've got a mobile device potentially that you're using to control it, you have third-party voice services, you have music service providers, wifi, network traffic, all of these things are going on. So for us to really make sure that we're creating an amazing experience cause we're super customer obsessed. >> So Margaret, one of the things that I've always experienced as a customer of Sonos, is that, frankly for me it just always works. And that's one of the best parts of the customer experience. Whether I'm pulling up Spotify on my phone to go listen to it, or whether I'm plugging in a soundbar into the TV, everything seems to just work. So maybe just walk me through why it's been such a good experience maybe for me. >> Yeah. So some of the kind of at a high level, an example of what we do is we use Snowflake to... And because of the power of Snowflake, we're able to bring together different kinds of telemetry about what's happening in our products and our services. And then we can try to pinpoint reliability issues and determine what's happening, like what's causing them. That was kind of the first thing that we attacked with Snowflake, was really to go in and dig in and join some different events together and start slicing and dicing and looking for what are the main problems that we're seeing and what are the fixes to them. And the product team was able to find some reliability issues that they were able to fix. And they shipped the fixes and we were able to significantly reduce the rate at which some of these errors were occurring. >> Just by having all the data in one place and being able to go actually act on it quickly and of course in a cost effective manner, it really did let you guys really pinpoint any issue when it did occur and go and go support it, fixed quickly. >> Yeah. I mean, we were able to find things that we didn't even know were happening because we could really drill into the data. >> So it wasn't just having one place, it was also just being able to go dig into a different level of fidelity that you didn't have before? >> I mean, you should see some of the tableau dashboards that we've put on top of Snowflake. So, it's pretty impressive. (laughs) >> That's awesome. That's awesome. So what really set it apart? I mean you've been in the business, you're an expert in this business and there's a lot of options out there. What really set apart Snowflake from everything else at the time, and even now in your opinion? >> Just like you said about Sonos, it just works. (Kyle and Margaret laughing) We were able to stand it up really easily. We were able to load data into it really easily. It's pretty flexible in terms of what you can do. So for example, we use the variant column quite a bit, and that allows us to take kind of this semi-structured data and throw it in there and have an index. And then we can work with it as we want to. We don't have to have like a real complex data pipeline upstream before we throw things into Snowflake. If we don't want to, or we can, we really like, obviously I mentioned the speed. I keep mentioning that cause it's really powerful and it holds a ton of data. But even better is the cost. So we're pushing tons of data into Snowflake and we're not having to pay that much for that cost. We're basically paying S3 costs. But then you pay for what you use. So you're just paying for your processing costs. And even that is pretty easy to optimize. And you guys provide tools for that and support. I mean, you've helped me save thousands dollars a month this year (laughs) and it's really great. >> What's the plan for the future? Where do you see Sonos and Snowflake and the data cloud? Where do you see all that intersecting in the future? >> Yeah, I mean we really want Snowflake to be kind of the center of our data platform and bring all of our data together. We want to live the data dream. (Kyle and Margaret laughing) (indistinct) our data together and do all sorts of cool analysis. So we have a bunch of different projects that we want to be able to do. For example, one thing that we're looking at doing is bringing together our product telemetry data and our customer support data so that we can try to find patterns in terms of the types of errors or sequence of events that happen before somebody calls us, so that we can potentially intervene and fix the problem before somebody even has to reach out to our care team. And then another place that we're looking at using Snowflake is connecting it to salesforce. So for people who are interested in hearing from us, we could do things like when you set up a new product, we can send you information about how to use that product, or if there's new features available for the product that you have, we could send you information about that. And with Snowflake as our backend, it really helps us be able to tailor the customer experience. >> So Margaret, you've talked a lot about Snowflake and using Snowflake and it just works. I mean, you guys are running a very, very large implementation of Snowflake like using IoT data coming from, as you mentioned, millions and millions of devices. What's been the overall lift to the organization just to go manage the whole thing and keep it going and keep it up and running? >> It almost runs itself. (Margaret laughing) I'm almost surprised because we obviously use a lot of different third party tools and most of them require quite a bit of intervention on a regular basis. I would say Snowflake, it stays up and running and you have great tools for managing the whole system. And it's easy to see what's happening, it's easy to see when different clusters are spinning up and spinning down, we have tableau dashboards that we use to monitor all of our usage. And you guys provide all the data for that to make that really easy. So that's really great. Can't say it enough, without Snowflake. (laughs) >> So Margaret, thank you so much. It was great hearing your story about Sonos and how you leverage data cloud. So again, thank you for being a customer. And thank you again for being here today. >> Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

>> From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the CUBE in ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Earlier these week, the U S department of justice, along with attorneys general from 11 States filed a long expected antitrust lawsuit, accusing Google of being a monopoly gatekeeper for the internet. The suit draws on section two of the Sherman antitrust act, which makes it illegal to monopolize trade or commerce. Of course, Google is going to fight the lawsuit, but in our view, the company has to make bigger moves to diversify its business and the answer we think lies in the cloud and at the edge. Hello everyone. This is Dave Vellante and welcome to this week's Wiki Bond Cube insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we want to do two things. First we're going to review a little bit of history, according to Dave Vollante of the monopolistic power in the computer industry. And then next, we're going to look into the latest ETR data. And we're going to make the case that Google's response to the DOJ suit should be to double or triple its focus on cloud and edge computing, which we think is a multi-trillion dollar opportunity. So let's start by looking at the history of monopolies in technology. We start with IBM. In 1969 the U S government filed an antitrust lawsuit against Big Blue. At the height of its power. IBM generated about 50% of the revenue and two thirds of the profits for the entire computer industry, think about that. IBM has monopoly on a relative basis, far exceeded that of the virtual Wintel monopoly that defined the 1990s. IBM had 90% of the mainframe market and controlled the protocols to a highly vertically integrated mainframe stack, comprising semiconductors, operating systems, tools, and compatible peripherals like terminal storage and printers. Now the government's lawsuit dragged on for 13 years before it was withdrawn in 1982, IBM at one point had 200 lawyers on the case and it really took a toll on IBM and to placate the government during this time and someone after IBM made concessions such as allowing mainframe plug compatible competitors to access its code, limiting the bundling of application software in fear of more government pressure. Now the biggest mistake IBM made when it came out of antitrust was holding on to its mainframe past. And we saw this in the way it tried to recover from the mistake of handing its monopoly over to Microsoft and Intel. The virtual monopoly. What it did was you may not remember this, but it had OS/2 and Windows and it said to Microsoft, we'll keep OS/2 you take Windows. And the mistake IBM was making with sticking to the PC could be vertically integrated, like the main frame. Now let's fast forward to Microsoft. Microsoft monopoly power was earned in the 1980s and carried into the 1990s. And in 1998 the DOJ filed the lawsuit against Microsoft alleging that the company was illegally thwarting competition, which I argued at the time was the case. Now, ironically, this is the same year that Google was started in a garage. And I'll come back to that in a minute. Now, in the early days of the PC, Microsoft they were not a dominant player in desktop software, you had Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect. You had this company called Harvard Presentation Graphics. These were discreet products that competed very effectively in the market. Now in 1987, Microsoft paid $14 million for PowerPoint. And then in 1990 launched Office, which bundled Spreadsheets, Word Processing, and presentations into a single suite. And it was priced far more attractively than the some of the alternative point products. Now in 1995, Microsoft launched Internet Explorer, and began bundling its browser into windows for free. Windows had a 90% market share. Netscape was the browser leader and a high flying tech company at the time. And the company's management who pooed Microsoft bundling of IE saying, they really weren't concerned because they were moving up the stack into business software, now they later changed that position after realizing the damage that Microsoft bundling would do to its business, but it was too late. So in similar moves of ineptness, Lotus refuse to support Windows at its launch. And instead it wrote software to support the (indistinct). A mini computer that you probably have never even heard of. Novell was a leader in networking software at the time. Anyone remember NetWare. So they responded to Microsoft's move to bundle network services into its operating systems by going on a disastrous buying spree they acquired WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, which was a Spreadsheet and a Unix OS to try to compete with Microsoft, but Microsoft turned the volume and kill them. Now the difference between Microsoft and IBM is that Microsoft didn't build PC hardware rather it partnered with Intel to create a virtual monopoly and the similarities between IBM and Microsoft, however, were that it fought the DOJ hard, Okay, of course. But it made similar mistakes to IBM by hugging on to its PC software legacy. Until the company finally pivoted to the cloud under the leadership of Satya Nadella, that brings us to Google. Google has a 90% share of the internet search market. There's that magic number again. Now IBM couldn't argue that consumers weren't hurt by its tactics. Cause they were IBM was gouging mainframe customers because it could on pricing. Microsoft on the other hand could argue that consumers were actually benefiting from lower prices. Google attorneys are doing what often happens in these cases. First they're arguing that the government's case is deeply flawed. Second, they're saying the government's actions will cause higher prices because they'll have to raise prices on mobile software and hardware, Hmm. Sounds like a little bit of a threat. And of course, it's making the case that many of its services are free. Now what's different from Microsoft is Microsoft was bundling IE, that was a product which was largely considered to be crap, when it first came out, it was inferior. But because of the convenience, most users didn't bother switching. Google on the other hand has a far superior search engine and earned its rightful place at the top by having a far better product than Yahoo or Excite or Infoseek or even Alta Vista, they all wanted to build portals versus having a clean user experience with some non-intrusive of ads on the side. Hmm boy, is that part changed, regardless? What's similar in this case with, as in the case with Microsoft is the DOJ is arguing that Google and Apple are teaming up with each other to dominate the market and create a monopoly. Estimates are that Google pays Apple between eight and $11 billion annually to have its search engine embedded like a tick into Safari and Siri. That's about one third of Google's profits go into Apple. And it's obviously worth it because according to the government's lawsuit, Apple originated search accounts for 50% of Google search volume, that's incredible. Now, does the government have a case here? I don't know. I'm not qualified to give a firm opinion on this and I haven't done enough research yet, but I will say this, even in the case of IBM where the DOJ eventually dropped the lawsuit, if the U S government wants to get you, they usually take more than a pound of flesh, but the DOJ did not suggest any remedies. And the Sherman act is open to wide interpretation so we'll see. What I am suggesting is that Google should not hang too tightly on to it's search and advertising past. Yes, Google gives us amazing free services, but it has every incentive to appropriate our data. And there are innovators out there right now, trying to develop answers to that problem, where the use of blockchain and other technologies can give power back to us users. So if I'm arguing that Google shouldn't like the other great tech monopolies, hang its hat too tightly on the past, what should Google do? Well, the answer is obvious, isn't it? It's cloud and edge computing. Now let me first say that Google understandably promotes G Suite quite heavily as part of its cloud computing story, I get that. But it's time to move on and aggressively push into the areas that matters in cloud core infrastructure, database, machine intelligence containers and of course the edge. Not to say that Google isn't doing this, but there are areas of greatest growth potential that they should focus on. And the ETR data shows it. But let me start with one of our favorite graphics, which shows the breakdown of survey respondents used to derive net score. Net score remembers ETR's quarterly measurement of spending velocity. And here we show the breakdown for Google cloud. The lime green is new adoptions. The forest green is the percentage of customers increasing spending more than 5%. The gray is flat and the pinkish is decreased by 6% or more. And the bright red is we're replacing or swapping out the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score at 43%, which is not off the charts, but it's pretty good. And compares quite favorably to most companies, but not so favorite with AWS, which is at 51% and Microsoft which is at 49%, both AWS and Microsoft red scores are in the single digits. Whereas Google's is at 10%, look all three are down since January, thanks to COVID, but AWS and Microsoft are much larger than Google. And we'd like to see stronger across the board scores from Google. But there's good news in the numbers for Google. Take a look at this chart. It's a breakdown of Google's net scores over three survey snapshots. Now we skip January in this view and we do that to provide a year of a year context for October. But look at the all important database category. We've been watching this very closely, particularly with the snowflake momentum because big query generally is considered the other true cloud native database. And we have a lot of respect for what Google is doing in this area. Look at the areas of strength highlighted in the green. You've got machine intelligence where Google is a leader AI you've got containers. Kubernetes was an open source gift to the industry, and linchpin of Google's cloud and multi-cloud strategy. Google cloud is strong overall. We were surprised to see some deceleration in Google cloud functions at 51% net scores to be on honest with you, because if you look at AWS Lambda and Microsoft Azure functions, they're showing net scores in the mid to high 60s. But we're still elevated for Google. Now. I'm not that worried about steep declines, and Apogee and Looker because after an acquisitions things kind of get spread out around the ETR taxonomy so don't be too concerned about that. But as I said earlier, G Suite may just not that compelling relative to the opportunity in other areas. Now I won't show the data, but Google cloud is showing good momentum across almost all interest industries and sectors with the exception of consulting and small business, which is understandable, but notable deceleration in healthcare, which is a bit of a concern. Now I want to share some customer anecdotes about Google. These comments come from an ETR Venn round table. The first comment comes from an architect who says that "it's an advantage that Google is "not entrenched in the enterprise." Hmm. I'm not sure I agree with that, but anyway, I do take stock in what this person is saying about Microsoft trying to lure people away from AWS. And this person is right that Google essentially is exposed its internal cloud to the world and has ways to go, which is why I don't agree with the first statement. I think Google still has to figure out the enterprise. Now the second comment here underscores a point that we made earlier about big query customers really like the out of the box machine learning capabilities, it's quite compelling. Okay. Let's look at some of the data that we shared previously, we'll update this chart once the company's all report earnings, but here's our most recent take on the big three cloud vendors market performance. The key point here is that our data and the ETR data reflects Google's commentary in its earning statements. And the GCP is growing much faster than its overall cloud business, which includes things that are not apples to apples with AWS the same thing is true with Azure. Remember AWS is the only company that provides clear data on its cloud business. Whereas the others will make comments, but not share the data explicitly. So these are estimates based on those comments. And we also use, as I say, the ETR survey data and our own intelligence. Now, as one of the practitioners said, Google has a long ways to go as buddy an eighth of the size of AWS and about a fifth of the size of Azure. And although it's growing faster at this size, we feel that its growth should be even higher, but COVID is clear a factor here so we have to take that into consideration. Now I want to close by coming back to antitrust. Google spends a lot on R&D, these are quick estimates but let me give you some context. Google shells out about $26 billion annually on research and development. That's about 16% of revenue. Apple spends less about 16 billion, which is about 6% of revenue, Amazon 23 billion about 8% of the top line, Microsoft 19 billion or 13% of revenue and Facebook 14 billion or 20% of revenue, wow. So Google for sure spends on innovation. And I'm not even including CapEx in any of these numbers and the hype guys as you know, spend tons on CapEx building data centers. So I'm not saying Google cheaping out, they're not. And I got plenty of cash in there balance sheet. They got to run 120 billion. So I can't criticize they're roughly $9 billion in stock buybacks the way I often point fingers at what I consider IBM's overly wall street friendly use of cash, but I will say this and it was Jeff Hammerbacher, who I spoke with on the Cube in the early part of last decade at a dupe world, who said "the best minds of my generation are spending there time, "trying to figure out how to get people to click on ads." And frankly, that's where much of Google's R&D budget goes. And again, I'm not saying Google doesn't spend on cloud computing. It does, but I'm going to make a prediction. The post cookie apocalypse is coming soon, it may be here. iOS 14 makes you opt in to find out everything about you. This is why it's such a threat to Google. The days when Google was able to be the keeper of all of our data and to house it and to do whatever it likes with that data that ended with GDPR. And that was just the beginning of the end. This decade is going to see massive changes in public policy that will directly affect Google and other consumer facing technology companies. So my premise is that Google needs to step up its game and enterprise cloud and the edge much more than it's doing today. And I like what Thomas Kurian is doing, but Google's undervalued relative to some of the other big tech names. And I think it should tell wall street that our future is in enterprise cloud and edge computing. And we're going to take a hit to our profitability and go big in those areas. And I would suggest a few things, first ramp up R&D spending and acquisitions even more. Go on a mission to create cloud native fabric across all on-prem and the edge multicloud. Yes, I know this is your strategy, but step it up even more forget satisfying investors. You're getting dinged in the market anyway. So now's the time the moon wall street and attack the opportunity unless you don't see it, but it's staring you right in the face. Second, get way more cozy with the enterprise players that are scared to death of the cloud generally. And they're afraid of AWS in particular, spend the cash and go way, way deeper with the big tech players who have built the past IBM, Dell, HPE, Cisco, Oracle, SAP, and all the others. Those companies that have the go to market shops to help you win the day in enterprise cloud. Now, I know you partner with these companies already, but partner deeper identify game-changing innovations that you can co-create with these companies and fund it with your cash hoard. I'm essentially saying, do what you do with Apple. And instead of sucking up all our data and getting us to click on ads, solve really deep problems in the enterprise and the edge. It's all about actually building an on-prem to cloud across cloud, to the edge fabric and really making that a unified experience. And there's a data angle too, which I'll talk about now, the data collection methods that you've used on consumers, it's incredibly powerful if applied responsibly and correctly for IOT and edge computing. And I don't mean to trivialize the complexity at the edge. There really isn't one edge it's Telcos and factories and banks and cars. And I know you're in all these places Google because of Android, but there's a new wave of data coming from machines and cars. And it's going to dwarf people's clicks and believe me, Tesla wants to own its own data and Google needs to put forth a strategy that's a win-win. And so far you haven't done that because your head is an advertising. Get your heads out of your ads and cut partners in on the deal. Next, double down on your open source commitment. Kubernetes showed the power that you have in the industry. Ecosystems are going to be the linchpin of innovation over the next decade and transcend products and platforms use your money, your technology, and your position in the marketplace to create the next generation of technology leveraging the power of the ecosystem. Now I know Google is going to say, we agree, this is exactly what we're doing, but I'm skeptical. Now I think you see either the cloud is a tiny little piece of your business. You have to do with Satya Nadella did and completely pivot to the new opportunity, make cloud and the edge your mission bite the bullet with wall street and go dominate a multi-trillion dollar industry. Okay, well there you have it. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts, so please subscribe wherever you listen. I publish weekly on Wikibond.com and Siliconangle.com and I post on LinkedIn each week as well. So please comment or DM me @DVollante, or you can email me @David.Vollante @Siliconangle.com. And don't forget to check out etr.plus that's where all the survey action is. This is Dave Vollante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody be well. And we'll see you next. (upbeat instrumental)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of PegaWorld Inspire brought to you by Pegasystems. Everybody welcome back to PegaWorld Inspired 2020 this is theCUBE and I'm Dave Vellante, we're here with Adam Field who is the head of innovation and experience at Pegasystems. Adam thanks for coming on, how are you doing man? >> It's my pleasure Dave, I'm doing well how are you? >> Good thank you, I'm excited we're talking innovation, we're talking to innovation hub but to start with your role I love the title, what do you do? Give us the background story. >> Yeah I get that question quite a bit so, I've been with Pega a little over 15 years now and I've held many roles, but currently as head of innovation and experience we have a team I like to call them Creative Misfits, if you will, we sort of bridge that gap between technology and creative, we do research on emerging tech and try to understand how our clients might use it, how it's going to change the future of work, that's the innovation side, on the experience side, we do things like for these PegaWorld events, we match we where art meets tech and we build these experiential things that people come and see at our events, we build all the demos and all the production that you see on the main stage, so we kind of touch a lot of different things around the future of where technology is going. >> Well, I can see, obviously you're innovative, you've got the awesome set up there, the great mic and sound, (laughing) fantastic you look good So and now you've been involved in previous PegaWorld both from behind the scenes and out front speaking obviously this is completely different, how did you prep differently for PegaWorld 2020 virtual versus what you normally do? >> Yeah right so this will be my well 16th I guess PegaWorld and obviously this one stands out as the most different normally we'd be in Boston today, we would have been, you know, working on our stage production and on a floor that's 170,000 square feet big with dozens of booths and hundreds of demos, and obviously this was completely different, but as far as prep goes, I remember the day we learned that early March, this was going virtual and after a few moments of sadness, the team really came together, and I remember the first thing we talked about is we're not going to take a three day event and try to put it all online. Let's--we know people's time is valuable, let's figure out how to take just what's important and get it out to people so that they're inspired to move forward and engage with Pega, so I think that's really been the biggest change in how we've prepped. >> Well, I think that's a great point because obviously theCUBE has been very much involved in these virtual events and. >> Right. >> People send out the note, hey we've made the tough decision to go virtual that's easy decision you really had no choice. >> That's right. >> The tough decision is what do you want to preserve from the physical and understanding that you can't just pop physical into virtual and you got to create a whole new content program, I think Robert Scoble wrote a post on, if you saw it he talks about, hey you better go out and hire Beyonce, oh you can't afford to be for Beyonce? well you better make your content interesting. So to me Adam, that's the tough part, help us understand how you thought that through and what the outcome actually is. >> Yeah, that's right. We didn't have Beyonce, but we did have the Dropkick Murphys, so that was pretty cool and they did a concert for us, so that's been great. But again a lot of people talk about all this free time that they have and I know I have two young kids who are schooling at home now, a job that's busier than it's ever been. I've tried to join a lot of these virtual events and frankly I have gotten overwhelmed, so we took two days and we boiled it down in a two and a half hours, and what we decided to do is we looked at all the areas which we go to market and how people design and deliver their apps, and some of the tech like Pega cloud that they use. And we went to our, I went to my extended team and I said, normally you have 75 booths, we're going to boil that down to 25, let's work together to figure that out. Normally your demos might be 20 minutes when someone walks up, we want to make them seven. But I think the biggest thing that we did, we said what we don't want to lose is that interactivity, and so we had online dozens of Pega experts we could ask questions live, Alan was online doing answering questions live. We made sure that we included live components, our host, Don Sherman was live from his house. We didn't just pre-record everything because then, why would anyone come join when they could just go watch it, 30 minutes later on your YouTube channel? >> See that's innovation to me is having that combination of live. Obviously, you've got to do some stuff a prerecorded, but having a live component adds a dimension, it's challenging, but that's pushing the envelope and I love it. The other thing is, Adam is roles. The roles are different in a virtual event, are they? You're not doing site inspections Like you said, you're not dealing with 170,000 square feet. How did you guys rethink the roles for virtual? >> Yeah so, there were some teams whose world was completely upended. You know, when this all went virtual, the people that do exactly what you were just talking about, dealing with hotels and vendors and things like that, and I got to tell you, one of the most events called PegaWorld Inspire and not to sound too cheesy about it, but one of the things that was really inspiring was to see how everyone stepped up and said, truly, how can I help? And what was really neat about it is we saw different skill sets come out of people that, maybe they hadn't had the opportunity to flex before where they might've worked on one thing that was no longer needed because of the change in the format, and they jumped into become copywriters or liaisons between cause now we have new vendors in this tech world that we didn't have that we turned around in just a matter of weeks. We had people like on my team who normally last year, build this massive physical exhibit containing mirrors and lights, that became video producers, to produce some of these live videos that we did. And one of the things was really impressive, you asked earlier about how did we prep differently and what changed? We looked in the marketplace for different tech and how to bring our CEO and our host and our head of product and everyone together live in split screen, and when you're a big studio you know, and you have that equipment ready to go, that's easy, but when you're just getting average people in their homes and you want to put all that together, we're finding some of the tech in the marketplace just wasn't there. My team built some new video chat technologies that they actually use to produce this in real time, so that was really impressive to me how we turn that around and really innovated not only the things that everyone sees, but all the stuff behind the scenes to. >> See again I think this is what's amazing to me is as I learned more and more about Pega interview Alan earlier. >> Sure. >> Pega is all about being able to adapt to these changes. So a lot of the processes we are using in virtual events, they're unknown. In normally software right through the history of software is okay, here's how the software works. Figure out how to fit your process into it, very rigid. >> That's right. >> Today you know, the last three months with this lockdown in this coronavirus have been completely unknown, and so that's sort of one of the hallmarks of your company, isn't it? >> That's right and we've had the tagline Build For Change for really long time, and I will tell you, I remember in that first meeting again, when we learned this was going virtual and someone stood up and they said, guys we're about to live our tagline. And people really do believe in that, 'cause we go to our clients every single day and say, change is what's going to make you special changes is what's going to make you different, now's your opportunity, seize that change and run with it. And so we said, look, we can't change the world right now, we know we got to go virtual, all we can do is change the type of event that we do, we're not going to do the standard event that we think every one else is going to do, let's do it differently and today was a pretty good example, I think we achieved that. >> I think a couple of things from a challenge standpoint, you mentioned the chat, how do you get people to engage? You had to sort of invent something. >> Yeah. >> And then really think it through for virtual. And I think the other is tech people come to these events, they want to touch the tech. And so you've got you know the innovation hub, it's where people get to play with the technology. You got to take us through how you thought through that and. >> Right. >> What the outcome is. >> Yeah, so that is the toughest part, and I got to tell you, you know all of this being said, I'm looking forward to someday being able to get back and meeting my clients in person, and I'm the type, when I see you on the floor of the innovation hub, I run by a booth and high five you for all the great weeks of hard work, you know? And I love to see people's faces, they see the demos and that's tough not being able to see them smile and get that moment of wow. But what was interesting was it really helped us hone our messages. I think we really realized when I went to everybody and said you don't have 20 minutes, you have seven minutes, here's a template, to follow, to be able to tell your story better, and people started thinking in that mode of storytelling, and what was interesting was lot of people came back to me and said, actually you know what? I can tell that story in a much more crisp way and really show people what they need to see in a in a much faster timeframe. And what it really allowed us to do was find those bits that we thought were most important, find those demos that we think are most important and just, you know bubble those up. One of the things we also did too, we took the opportunity to say you know what, we're going to be online, I watch my kids. My kids are avid gamers whether I like it or not, and they. >> Yeah. >> Watch these Twitch streams, and we thought well, we should be able to do that with even corporate software. So we had these live build sessions where we took some of our developers and I said you're going to be put on the hot seat for 15 minutes on script and we're going to let people just guide and direct you. And they were a little nervous at first, but they went off great, and it was a new format we had never tried before. So if we keep doing these types of different things and we just embrace the moment that we're in I think people will really really come to it and get some value out of it. >> I mean that's awesome, you've got to keep your audience engaged, and so you do lose, you don't have a captive audience, so you lose some time in terms of how much you can you know? how much Kool-Aid injection you can give him. I mean take 20 minutes down to seven minutes. But so you do lose some of that, but what do you gain with virtual? >> Well, I think one of the things that you obviously gain is you can be more widespread, so yeah, you know this event reached tens of thousands of people in dozens of countries. I did an event first week of April, so you can imagine you know, we had two weeks to turn on and I was supposed to be in London and Amsterdam presenting in soccer stadiums. And instead we made that a one hour virtual event and we thought, well, we're just going to get people from the London market and from the Netherlands market, and it turned out, we got people from all over the world to join. So one of the benefits to this is the reach, so we're able to reach a lot more people. I'd say one of the other just things that we realized after tours we're creating a lot of content, we filmed all of this as we were rehearsing, and we're going to put it up online later, so now we have all this great content that anyone can use and go view later, so that was sort of you know, unexpected outcome as well. >> Right yeah, you lose the airline miles, but you gain. (laughing) as I want to going to say you gian the post. >> I don't mind not traveling as well. >> Yeah I here you but, but you do gain that post and I think with physical events, people always at the end of it, it's like, I've never given birth, but I've witnessed that many times. but people feel like, okay, I got to just chill out now for a couple of weeks, and then when they come back, now they're swamped, they've got to catch up. And I think people are realizing, wow, there's a real opportunity maximize the post event here, post nurturing peep streaming out content and continue that engagement, that is a plus of these virtual event. >> Oh, for sure, and you know we started early on deciding how are we going to do, what are we going to do is follow ups you know? That European event that I talked about once again instead of taking all these different markets and trying to replicate it, we did one one hour event. But then because we were in the early days of COVID and some of our clients weren't able to get recorded and speak, we did subsequent webinars in the weeks following them, and the attendance was fantastic. So it allowed us to plan ahead and you know, have a lot of followup activities that we're starting to launch right now as soon as the event ended. >> How do you feel about the outcome for Pega? Do you think it was better, worse, the same or just different? >> I'm going to go with different you know, like I said I get energy I love being up on stage in front of 5,000 people, I love meeting my clients in person, I love the energy of being with my colleagues, but you know it is what it is, We had to do it, and I think what we really embraced it, so I'll say it's just a different way of doing things, but you know I do look forward to the day that I'm able to go meet my clients again and get back on stage and produce some really great things and once again being able to physically see our attendees go oh, when they actually see the software in person, that's the most rewarding thing for me. >> It's going to be interesting as we come out of this I mean, very clearly things are going to be different probably going to have hybrid for some time. Maybe even indefinitely but I'm interested in some of the learnings, some of the things that you think will be permanent, some of the advice. And one of the things I always say to people is don't start with what software are we going to use in there? Your software platform, think about the experience that you want to work backwards from there but what are other advice would you give for given your experiences? >> Right. >> You're so right about that point, I remember interviewing a lot of vendors that we were going to use to bring this online and we were telling them what we wanted to do, and some of them said no one's ever asked about that before we can't do that, so you're a hundred percent right about that. The advice I will say, and the thing I do worry about a little bit is, at first people were a little bit more accepting if maybe the video quality wasn't as good, or you know the content was like any old webinar. As months ago on expectations are going to be higher, people are going to have attended a lot of these things so you're going to have to keep upping the game. And I think the advice I would give is try to take what's great about an in person event and put it online but don't try to replicate the event and put it online. And some of the best things about in person events are just the live nature of it, take the risks, do some live stuff. People will really appreciate that, you'll get a lot of credit for that. The interactivity is what's important about a live event, so as best you can, figure out how to make sure there's some interactivity. Now in the early days I think it's going to be some live Q and A as we move on, it'll be real private rooms with experts that you're able to have one-on-one chats and go through and bounce around and be able to talk to people you know, just like you would accept, between two cameras instead of in person. So I think everyone is months go on. they just going to have to up their game. I think that's great advice, you're absolutely right up your game, up your brand, get a good camera, get good sound, and it's going to just, help your personal brand and your company's brand. Adam. >> We learned what it was like to try to ship microphone and camera equipment around the world (laughing) overnight so we're experts at that, if you you've got any questions. >> Well, I mean what a difference it made, so Adam, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and sharing your experiences. You guys, have one of the best that we've seen at the Virtual Event Platform so congratulations on that and really appreciate your contribution (mumbles). >> Thanks it's my pleasure, great to talk to you today (mumbles). All right, keep it right there buddy, this is theCUBES coverage of PegaWorld Inspire 2020 the virtual event, will be right back after a short break. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of women transforming technology brought to you by VM Ware. >>Hi, this is Lisa Martin covering fifth Annual Women Transforming Technology WT two from my home in San Jose, California Because this is the first year than WT two has gone digital. Very excited to welcome next one of the speakers from the executive track. We have Charmaine Macquarie, president of Macquarie Group, but also offer C Suite Advisor. You know, Speaker Charmaine. Nice to start with you. >>An absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me. >>So you have an incredible background. You have been for two decades working with leaders and I read 27 industries, five continents and from some pretty big, well known brands Coca Cola, Johnson and Johnson, my particular favorite Starbucks. Tell me a little bit about your background in your career and how you came to be working with potential leaders >>early on in my career, I was working in politics, actually helping politicians understand their constituency and then how to communicate effectively with them and then went on into marketing. And really, what I say is that what I do is a conglomeration of all of my life experience working with leaders either in politics, in marketing and sales on a variety of industries, including gas and oil, and coming together and helping them understand how to communicate their message effectively. How have executive presence and ensuring that they're seeing, heard and remembered >>what? One of the things. One of the things that talking about being remembered especially now during a crisis that nobody has ever experienced before, when there are so much, so much concern and so much uncertainty. Um, I e. Read that you said effective communication is more than just words and phrases, especially in today's climate. What is effective communication? >>Effective communication is making sure that people hear your value, your value proposition, and that is really essential today. One of the things you want to do is that you want to elevate your visibility and when elevate the value that you bring to your organization. There are a number of competing priorities, and what you want organization to understand is what is it that you see that others don't see, and that is a part of your value proposition. How are you going to help the organization innovate through this time, and wanting to do that is really speaking about what is the value. What is it that it's gonna make the difference for the organization today with this crises and that will also take it further into the future. >>Tell me a little bit about this session that you did at women transforming technology the other day. 35 minutes. Interactive session. Since everything for this year's event was digital, I love the name of your session. Speak up, Stand out. We heard talking a little bit about when you first learned maybe last month, that this event was going digital. Did you change anything? Were there certain elements of your expertise and your recommendations that are now more even more important? Respect to visibility and value? >>Yes, So what? I changed it. What I changed and Waas. I really wanted to make it as a conversational as possible, because in this isolation it's easy to not feel seen or heard, and I want people to be able to elevate again their visibility and their ability to add value. So a couple of things that people can do is they can actually rewrite their narrative if they need to meaning if you believe that if you do not define yourself, others well, and their definition will inevitably be inadequate. So if you know that you are seen as a very quiet person and a person that is in the background and you want to have greater visibility, this is a great opportunity for you to rewrite that narrative and make yourself more visible. Meaning, I think, the expertise that you have again the insight that you have, making sure that you bring that to the table. You can do it in a number of formats. You could do it not only on a zoom call with your colleagues, but you can. Also, your email is heightened if you're using language and the language of leadership language that really hurts. People's here, and that creates a visual. So now you want to do to really make sure that using language that is very vivid and allows a person to touch, taste and feel what it is that you're saying, so that's one of the things that you can do. The other is say, Is that what I want to make sure that my clients are not well kept secrets. I want to make sure that in this time of isolation that they're finding opportunities to reach out. So most everyone is at home sheltering in place so people have more time on their hands in terms of reading your emails. When researchers found that there is a 26% increase and say your newsletters being read your emails being written, so now is the time that you could actually heighten that kind of communication. >>That's fascinating. Look that you said about making what you're communicating in an email. Maybe it's even texture over something like slack, vivid. Say, somebody has a great idea, I think. All right, so terms have changed. My job function is difference, or it's challenging to complete certain Give me some words that you think. So now you're saying people are actually focusing more on reading what you're saying, What are some vivid words that I could use if I had an interesting finance project or a marketing project that I wanted to raise the visibility of and gets them to really feel what I'm looking at? >>So when you speak about up in a finance project, one of the things you want to do is think about what is a story that could articulate those numbers that can tell the story with those numbers. So if you were saying, um, let's just make it as simple as possible. Two plus two equals four. Well, what you want to think about is what is it that is going to be different when you finished this project, or what is it that's gonna be? It's gonna shift in the marketplace. And so you want to create that visual? What does the future look like? And using examples of things that are very basic to our life today, as opposed to using really complicated language. Now is the time to have your language simple, having very clear and having very vivid. So you >>run it, Go ahead. Sorry. >>No, please go. Right. Yet >>I'm glad that you brought up simplicity because so often I think people think maybe I'm managing a project or I'm creating a methodology, and I think, really, it's just it's the simple. But we often second guess ourselves because I think I included in this. A lot of folks think it can't be that simple. It's got to be more complex I need to show, you know, like an episode of I'm picturing an Apple sort of the Big Bang theory, and Sheldon's talking about strength there. You need to make it complex to show your value. And but sometimes it's the simplest methodology. The simplest way of communicating that is the most effective. Do you find out that sometimes spokes, regardless of their level of executive nous, are challenged to really step back and look at the simple way to communicate with the simple answer? >>Absolutely. And simplicity is best, whether it's during this time period or even beyond this pandemic, but particularly now. So I don't know if anybody's ever seen the show. The marvelous is, um, I think it's amazing. Yeah, single and one of the things that she asked her husband, She goes, Well, honey, what do you do? And so I think, in the first episode, and he says, You know, I signed papers, I do this, I do that and he says, I really don't know what the hell I do. And I remember an incident with one of my clients, and I asked her, What does she do? She gave me her job title and I said, Okay, how many people work in your company? And she said, 49,000 people work here. I said, How many people do you think have the same title issue? If she goes well, you know, I'm sure at least a couple 1000. I said yes. So what distinguishes you? And so she wanted to talk about the title, which is like talking about acronyms at a company. And I said So, Really, What do you do? What we realized is that what she does is that she was responsible the fastest growing market segment in her company that articulates your value proposition that made a very visit vivid and very brought it to life. So people are able to understand when someone asked me, What do I do? I don't say that I'm an executive coach because you may have read an article last week that says all executive coach us up, that defines May. I wanted to find myself. My value is, I hope smart people get promoted when they get promoted, they communicate the big picture. So I help smart people get promote and communicate the big picture. I provide executive coaching senior level executives. I articulated my value. You know who I work with their smart people, that they're not smart. They're not working with me when they work with me and get promoted. Why? Because it communicate the big picture. Really? Simple one sent it. So what is the value? That is what really heightens your visibility and heightens your and levels. Level up your ability to be seen and heard in organizations. >>And, you know, I was looking at your website. You've been 98% success rate of folks that have worked with you that have been promoted within the following 18 months. What are some of the both hard and soft skills that you're looking for? So when you work, when you select clients to work with that, that demonstrate they are ready to be in the six weeks >>Well, there's a couple of things. One is that person has to be open and willing and not being volunteered by the organization, meaning saying you need to do you have to do this. If it is mandatory that someone work with an executive coach, that's not a winning proposition. The winning propositions That person is open and open to change and ready to make change. As I say to my clients, if you want everything to remain the same, I am not the coach for you because you're going to see change and you're going to see significant change. So that's one the other is preparing your organization for the kind of change is going to take place so that your organization begins with C and hear what you're doing different. So, for example, I would say to a client, if you're prepared to really step up and make the commitment to making the shift, you want to let people know what kind of shift that you're taking you're making so that they can begin to look for people like to look for success. They like to be able to reward you when you're successful, but you've got to let them know that you're there >>for that shift. >>So that's one of the things that's really important is that people be open to it and they'd be ready to take their spotlight. If you want to do it and remain behind the curtain, that's wonderful. This is not the work for you. >>It requires a little bit of vulnerability that, or maybe a lot of vulnerability to be able to do that, not easy, unless you're bringing a brown fan like I am talk to me about, especially in this time with covered 19 The uncertainty in every aspect of our lives. Every single aspect is it's dense and it's an emotional challenge. So do you find that it's harder for some folks, whether they're men or women, to do what your title says? You know? Speak up, let them know I'm coming. I'm on my way. How are you advising folks from a psychological perspective, to be able to do this? >>Well, I think there's a couple of things. One is that with the three questions I ask every client and those three questions are one. How do you see yourself? How do other people see you? And the third is, How do you want to be seen? So when you're able to answer, become introspective and answer those questions from the heart from your heart, then you can get really clear about what you want the world to know about you and how you want to show up. And it does require vulnerability. It requires you to look inward first for you to make that decision on how you want the world to see you. And then once you're able to make that, get that clarity and so it's process make getting that clarity. Then you can speak about that to the world. My thing is, is again. If you don't define yourself, others will, and their definition is inadequate. So when you define yourself, you know who you are and what you stand for. You can then shout that at the top of your lungs. But you don't really have to, because your actions will speak very clearly about what it is and who you say you are and how you want the world to see you. And you're always asking, am I can grow it? >>I love that about defining yourself so that others don't do it incorrectly. Talk to me about how somebody can develop their own communication style. How what are some of the steps that they need to recognize that, for example, if you see someone, anything there too bold or there to brush, or maybe dial it back a bit, especially because messages are getting read more now, which that process internally that I would need to take to develop and effective communication style. What is it >>that you need to do to to develop that effective communication style one? As I said, being able to define what that looks like for you and what that is may not be appropriate for every organization and every corporate culture. So you need to find immediate. Make sure either evaluate whether not you're in the right corporate culture so that you can be successful and or find a new one so that you could be successful once you have that, really, um, helping the people in your organization to make it easy for them to come to you. So by extending by extending yourself first, that is one of the things that I would say it would be really important in terms of stepping up during this time frame is saying, I feel really this is really let's say, someone has been felt really shaken by this really shaken by this. But I am determined so leverage this as an opportunity to really show up as my best self and show my greatest humanity. And I think that when we let people know what did it, where we're going and where we're headed, This far more easy for people to support you and provide you with the venues in which to exhibit who you are. This is a great time for you to volunteer A so much as possible to have that visibility. Because I think one of the questions you asked me earlier is how do you get hadn't become comfortable with this? You get comfortable with it by practising, Lady Gaga says. We're born that way, but we are. The only way that it happens with people that are really successful is because they practice >>something that is so interesting. Is during this time in particular, is getting is accountability, right? It's so easy right now more than ever to lose accountability. And I like that. You said that That's what I'm hearing when you say, you know, let people know that direction that you're going in. I think for the person you set that okay, I publicly said this, I need to be held that I need to hold myself accountable so that I deliver. I think there's a lot of power in that >>there is, and when you step up and articulate to the world. Well, you're about what it is that you're going to deliver your level of excellence. You hold yourself accountable because the person who is most important for you to be accountable to is yourself. Others come second, actually, sort of like being on the airplane in the mask. You've got to do it for you first. Because if you let yourself down, that's the that is the most horrific. And so stepping up to that is so much. There's so much power. And I believe that people provide you with a lot of grace when you do that and people know they can count on you. >>And that's so important knowing demonstrating your dependability in any situation. Sherman, I wish we had more time. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for sharing your insight. I'm gonna be visible show value and the vetted and communication and accountable. Thank you so much for joining me. >>Have a wonderful day. You >>as well. And for Charmaine McCleery. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube's coverage of the digital version of women transforming technology 2020 for now. >>Yeah, >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] me [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] so [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] so [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] me [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] so [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] so [Applause] [Music] so [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] um [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] so so [Applause] so [Music] so welcome to cyber security insights we're excited to talk to you today about some of the key developments in the cyber security area let me start off by saying you know security's always been a board room topic boards care about it but right now it's actually getting even more important given what's happening covered 19 given the risk the world faces the fact that 70 percent of the workforce is now really working from home at vmware we have all of our employees working for we made that a mandate not just required but we're taking a cautious approach as to how they come back that's the reality of many of our customers but the bad guys are not staying still 148 increase in ransomware during this time they're just looking for every way to take advantage of innocent people working at home and then we've seen 52 percent increase of all attacks in the march time frame targeting the financial sector so it's very important that you we have a different approach to security because our belief is the security industry has been broken uh you'll see on this chart 5000 odd vendors 15 or 20 different categories and it's often i described like going to a doctor to stay healthy and she tells you you've got to take 5 000 tablets and you fall off your chest and that's just not possible you know so how do you prevent staying having 5000 tablets taking 5000 tablets to stay healthy you eat your vegetables your fruit your proteins drink your water you make it part of your hygiene and that's what needs to happen in security we've got to move away from this bolted on approach siloed approach where you've got you know various differences feels like even 5000 tablets 5000 security tools are all kind of like healthcare deem themselves very important and also from security that's just focused on threats and the new approach needs to be one that's more built-in intrinsically part of the platform like making a part of your diet more unified as opposed to just siloed across all of the key pillars of security and a lot more context-centric rather than just threat centric to do this we've been looking at kind of the value proposition of vmware we're you know about a 10.8 billion dollar company and have played across these three or four layers off being a digital foundation for the world any cloud any app any device with intrinsic security you've seen this from us several uh over the last several years what we've sought to do is layer into that diagram five or six important control points in security that we think are going to be super important to make security intrinsic let's start off on the bottom right corner of this with network security we think a new approach for network security means that if you look at data center networking or firewalls or load balancing or sd-wan what is a 30 billion dollar opportunity a new approach you know could be one way you could have in one platform all of those capabilities in something that's more software-defined that's what we've been doing uh in with nsx a platform some customers call us sort of the tesla of networking because we're taking a somewhat you know traditional hardware-defined approach to networking and building a more software-defined networking stack for security much the same way a tesla is building a software-defined car if you go to the left-hand side you see kind of the endpoints but it's two different forms of endpoint an endpoint that's on the client side near the device a laptop tablet a phone or a endpoint that's closer to the server a workload or a container and in both areas we believe we have an opposition proposition to really be the best uh security solution for endpoint and workload security identity we think there's a tremendous opportunity to be the best solution that not just some ourselves but also partners with the best of breed players for example um octa or azure active directory in cloud security we're going to do a lot ourselves for example cloud security posture management but we're also going to partner with the likes of well web gateways and and proxies like z scale or netscope and then analytics is the big kahuna because the more data that you have the more equipped you are to prevent breaches and what we believe here is this notion of what the analysts are now calling xdr collecting telemetry from all of these control points which we have exposure to network endpoint workload identity cloud and having one big data lake where you reason over this with a variety of behavioral and ai algorithms and then provide the best way by which you can protect customers from possible future security events this is something we well best because we actually collecting the most telemetry of anybody from disparate different sources and you're gonna only see this increase so vmware's proposition uh as you look at this we today have a billion dollar security business i know you're gonna listen to that and say wow where did that come from some customers call us one of the best kept uh security secrets in the industry uh a significant about that comes from network security a growing part of it now comes from endpoint security we think the opportunity is to take that billion dollar business it's about 20 000 odd customers and double or triple that by really focusing in these five or six control points you're going to see us build the best products in each of these categories but one that's intrinsic and also works between them in ways that are incredible let me give you a couple examples with carbon black we're going to make it agentless on the server side with vsphere nobody else can do that we're going to do that and you're going to see that very soon with carbon black we're going to make it unified with workspace 1 on the console so you have a unified approach there on both the console and the agent something that you also start seeing from us very soon these are things that nobody else in users can do network security you're going to see from one platform data center networking load balancing firewalls and sd-wan beautiful security-centric networking story so this is the approach for folks and now i think as we listen to several of the thought leaders and analysts you're going to hear them get into this story in more detail thank you very much let's continue in this show cyber security insights and now we'd like to explore the unified approach of security and i.t how do you unify them as a foundation for success our special guest today is chris sherman who's senior analyst at forrester and a pretty renowned security uh researcher and thought leader himself chris welcome to the show great to be here with you sanjay you know i'm sitting here in my living room in cleveland ohio as we uh ride down the curve right fighting off a cabin fever and staying healthy hope you're doing the same chris i'm doing well but listen i look at your beautiful looking um you know i can't confess that my background is my natural i've got a virtual background is that actually your living room or is that a virtual background it is this is my living room we built the house last year and it's also my little private iot lab because you know i'm a huge nerd and i love my devices we've been you know kind of a big fan of a lot of the forester research zero trust security you mentioned your research and iot uh i.t security and i'd like to explore this a little further with you chris i'm a big fan of your research read a lot of your stuff uh but let's kind of focus in you know clearly in this time having security strategy and i.t strategy be together in this current climate many organizations have had to pivot uh due to covert 19. you know one example is employees having to work at home which raises a whole host of cyber security issues and you know having reviewed the research results it makes them i think even more relevant the need for security and i.t to join forces i believe right now to defeating the cyber criminals during the pandemic um so that we don't have this risk and quite frankly you know we've been finding the risk is even higher because the bad guys aren't sleeping uh even if there's a crisis going on so maybe you can tell us a little bit more about this research and your findings absolutely yeah so you know i think the genesis of this research really started with a conversation i had with some of your team members back in november uh we talked about you know the high level of friction between these two teams right between i.t and security and frankly the lack of support that a lot of the existing tools in the market really have for you know integrating the two and when you look across the industry there really aren't a whole lot of resources for buyers or you know technology strategists that you know want to understand these dynamics and you know this is really what led to vmware commissioning forester to uh you know this past february to survey over 1400 security and it ops decision makers across the globe we really wanted to probe those dynamics right you know what's holding companies back from eliminating this friction right this really was actually the largest sample size of any commissioned study that i've been a part of here at forester and it really led to some excellent results and and data as you know from the uh published research i'm looking forward to to reading them and knowing more about it and you know i think if you think about the research and uh you know there's a shift in security driving alignment and collaboration security and it's you know kind of the top initiative we see in the next 12 months uh maybe even tell us about why the relationship between these security and id teams um you know are important whys have been strained across both you know all three of people process and technology yeah i mean so i team security really are two sides of the same coin right but unfortunately their teams have struggled to work well together for many years according to our survey date it's gotten to the point where 83 of both team staff report a negative relationship between the two it's very unfortunate but there are many reasons for this you know many reasons for this friction especially with the vp director and manager roles between the security and the ite teams you know at a high level most of this is driven by the fact that security and i.t have differing priorities right our data backs us up you know you have i.t on one side that's focused on technology efficiency and uptime and from our conversations with it staff it's clear you know they view security as philosophically opposite you know to this right often as roadblocks to accomplishing their goals and then on the other side security's top priority is as you'd expect responding to security events and incidents and preventing compromises and this difference in priorities is the source of a lot of friction also both security and i.t staff are really unhappy with the technology that the tools specifically that they're using or the security tools the c cios and csos you know that we talked to all had the same complaint they have too many disjointed tools in fact the average across our study was 27 security products on average in each organization and even the most established security solutions like take firewalls for example you know it caused some serious angst right we found that only 52 percent of respondents felt that their firewalls were satisfactory in terms of the performance and the security uh efficacy i think you know listen a couple of points i'll point point out from what you talked about that resonate deeply with us one is when you talked about uh i don't know it was 25 or 27 odd tools i'd be surprised the number of csos i talked to who say it's in the dozens one i think i always sort of keep a record for the number of tools i've heard one tell me it was like 100 different security tools i asked you know him was there a hundred different consoles so it's just the number of tools and consoles uh the other one that you resonated with me was even in one of the more mature areas like firewalls you would have thought oh people are really happy there we find the same level of dissatisfaction with people saying listen traditional hardware-based approaches appliance-based approaches lots of policy way way too complicated um now let's talk a little bit about staffing i think it's it's you know listen at the end of the day security is a team sport it does depend on products and processes and technology but there's also people and you know we security teams are understaffed they're increasingly dealing with a complex portfolio of these non-integrated products how uh is this impacting teams and what can companies you do as you advise them to reduce complexity from the plethora of different products that are often point products today well you're right right finding and training the right item security staff is really critical to the success of the respective teams unfortunately this continues to be a major pain point right across the whole industry in fact 64 of the security teams that we surveyed and 53 of the it teams reported they're understaffed but yeah i mean amid this global pandemic when most organizations are focused on surviving and you know maybe keeping the lights on or i guess in this case maybe the vpn's running right and getting by with limited resources and protecting an increasingly remote workforce it's much more difficult to collaborate and work together across teams but our data showed that one of the major results of this you know the formation of communication silos you know teams aren't communicating enough right they're they're communicating within their or organization designed for their particular use case right with very little integration and collaboration across those silos and you know this is where tools could help right most of the time though they the tools actually just reflect or amplify those silos by reinforcing the division right between the two teams ultimately organizations may be looking for technologies that can support the needs of both it and security right this will help alleviate any tension that might arise over things like competition over limited resources right ideally once the teams come together and agree on goals as well as objectives and and measures of success for that matter right they can address their technology stack inherent complexity wisely said listen the security attacks are becoming more sophisticated uh organizations are considering now i think the approach as you've described is a unified strategy to address these critical issues uh can you tell us more about how you've seen these unified approaches to security strategy being effective well so i mean it seems like we've been talking about unifying the tools and strategies by you know i.t ops and security for years right but it's only been recently that we've seen the two sides really demonstrate any appetite to actually do so unfortunately most of the tools again right on the market are focused on one or the other and integrations are only starting to really accelerate to the point where our true unified vision is even possible this not only aligns teams under common goals right having a common tool set but it also aligns workflows between those two teams and helps foster collaboration uh listen uh you mentioned a couple of these these examples are really good for people to kind of grop you know in this have you uh outside of these exams or any other sort of tangible results uh that you think companies can expect uh as they bring together their security and id strategies and make them more unified what are the results from your research you think customers can expect to gain yeah there are several other you know clear benefits right that we identified in this research right the benefits to unifying the tech stacks between it ops and security our research showed that companies with a unified strategy reported fewer security incidents fewer data breaches which makes sense right given how critical endpoint configuration and overall i.t hygiene is to the security posture of an organization also you know building security capabilities directly into the it infrastructure helps to motivate non-security staff to take some ownership right over basic security fundamentals and this all helps speed right this this increases the speed to you know both detect new threats and uh respond once they're you know identified you know time to containment right this was also validated by our survey data a common strategy really can empower both to you know mitigate risk ensure continuous compliance and improve you know their threat response uh workflows you know between the two teams really companies need to find tools that meet the needs of both teams and at the end of the day as you pointed out security is a team sport right we all benefit from working together to protect the business and its employees right from malicious actors especially in these difficult times that's great chris thank you for uh your research um um so i just encourage all of you are listening um if you want to um you know get chris's research um you know go to this url on the screen here and you'll be able to download it uh we're excited about it i mean listen you know personally when i watch it teams and security teams sometimes sort of spar each other um you know i i i think that increasingly whether the security team reports under the cio sometimes that's the case sometimes security teams report into the chief legal officer or they report maybe into the cfo wherever reporting structures are only you have to build a team sport because there's aspect of this that's policy aspects of this that are technology there are aspects of this that are people uh thank you for this research chris as always i'm a fan of uh the stuff as are all of we and what you're right so it's always good to be able to see more this is also much of the other extended uh forest to work like zero trust that have become kind of the things that i've seen now becoming more pervasive in the industry so thank you all for listening to this uh and we hope we'll continue to serve you in the course of this program cyber security insights with more insights like this it's my pleasure right now to also continue this uh cyber security insights series now with a wonderful interview um with the head of security and infrastructure at circle k suzanne hall um i've had a chance to briefly meet her prior to this and she's got an incredible vision of how infrastructure security comes together uh in the context of retail so i'm looking forward to the discussion suzanne thank you for joining us today thanks sanjay glad to be here great hey listen maybe i'll start with um you know circle okay some folks may know you in the locality in the areas where they shop or whatever have you but many folks around the country may not and we're assuming there'll be a very large audience watching this tell us a little bit about the company what you guys do uh what's your vision and how are you serving uh customers and consumers oh terrific oh well yeah so circle k uh many people do not realize it's actually a canadian-owned company we are a global uh convenience and fuel service organization uh with with offices all across north america uh large part of northern europe um and with franchises in a large part of asia as well we're the second largest convenience store company in the world and the 11th largest retailer we yeah we acquired circle k the brand um back in the early 2000's and uh our goals right now over the next five years are to try and double in size um which is a pretty aggressive goal goal considering uh our organization which really is taking a you know 60 billion dollar organization and trying to double that in the next five years so wish us luck let's focus now a little bit more on the infrastructure and security part of it um it's interesting that you own both as you think about those areas um you know how are they linked together and what have you been doing to tie uh infrastructure topics and security topics which are often you know you have a ciso and then a cto owns infrastructure in your case you own both and i think it's a classic way in which you know we're trying to kind of get traditional it teams the security work world to go you're living it then you're breathing and you're implementing your team uh how is it working out and how are you making it work yeah oh sorry it was actually a key part of me being attracted to the to this world i've been here about 18 months um i really feel for certain organizations culturally if you can make it work where security operations can function together um it really empowers your security team to move things quickly and it also gives me the opportunity to take ultimately super scarce resources from the security side and build uh more security acumen within my network teams and my hosting teams and my infra um so that i get actually really smart technologists that also get security collaborating with really great security folks that also get technology there's a lot of synergies that i that i get from that from combining these two organizations and where circle k was before i got here you know we we um did need to rapidly mature a lot of our security program um because it had just um grown uh i think the organization grew beyond the competencies of the security team before i got here and so by having both sides of that house i was really able to move things quickly um kind of i don't have to i don't have to uh negotiate between the network team and the hosting team the security team because they all report up to me and i get i get to pick who wins all the time so it works really well i'd love to talk to you but just cover it it's on on everybody's mind it's changed transformed how we all work you and i are doing this interview work from home uh if we were doing it in different concerts i have to come to you or come to us we have done this in the studio together or in an event um and certainly it's you know kind of changing the ways in which we work and family life and so on and so forth but how is it changing your business how is it changing your i.t organization uh and how have you had to adapt to um you know this time that we're sheltering place work at home yeah well it's really it's changed everything for us as i'm sure for for most of your of your clients as well um you know obviously serp okay being convenience we are uh on the front lines we are open across the globe we may have some small stores that may get closed for periodic periods of time or maybe some shortened hours but we've got convenience workers and gas station workers working around the globe through coven so we've had to change how the stores look and feel um we've had to rapidly deploy things like curbside delivery to really adjust to uh customers um wants and expectations and then we've had to take the entire back office and put people working at home which was not our culture um before this all happened and we had to do that almost like in watching a wave go across the globe as it started uh offices started closing in northern europe first uh and then and then all the way through to ireland and then and then obviously the east coast and canada and all the way through to the west coast so um we actually had a very short period of time to create a remote working uh operation um luckily enough um we had some really talented folks we put a couple different solutions in place and uh within two weeks or so we were able to get everybody working remotely that could work remotely and then that really empowered us to support all those operations folks that needed to get things like plexiglass into the stores hand sanitizers into the stores masks uh um into the stores uh to serve our customers and to serve our staff i'd like to move on um then to the um the kind of the context of this infrastructure and i.t workers and security work i.t teams and security teams working better together one of the things we find often and we did some research with forester that where companies performed well and had great you know security prevention practices breaches places where i t and security work well together and traditionally often csos uh may be separate from the infrastructure team sometimes csos don't even report into ci support elsewhere and that can be uh not intensely so sometimes intentionally but often just a silo or a warring mentality you're good evidence now where you're bringing these together let's talk a little away from technology for a second and the people process collaboration how have you been able to bring these cultures together so that they work together for the common good of either cost saving protection whatever have you yeah you know um and so i've had the benefit of being a cso and a cio and a couple different organizations and also i was in i was in consulting for many years i worked for a big four uh from a letter of cyber practice with one of the big four firms and i'll tell you cyber programs uh move fast forward best when there's a couple of key elements in place and the first one is you have to have shared goals anytime that the cyber team is trying to implement something um in that the network team isn't on board with or the network team picked a tool they don't want to implement the tool that the cyber team is as um and has selected i mean that's that's always a recipe for failure so somehow you have to really work on aligned goals and i do that even though i own the infrastructure teams and the security teams um nobody's successful if we're not all successful together and really focusing on what does success look like for for each one of the each one of our areas and look sometimes you know we do have to take some uh educated risks in the environment you know for responding to things quickly but we also don't take we don't um let those risks sort of linger and and never get remediated right so we really work together to make sure that any new risks that we're taking on we have a focus on how we're going to mitigate that and we hold ourselves accountable and um and the network team is equally accountable for responding to security events as a security team is the key element i also say to my security teams is when you're working with production operations teams and and folks you've got to have skin in the game you've got to recognize that they're trying to keep systems up and running 24 7 you know for the operations of the organization right so we can take credit cards and cash in the stores and make the sales and deliver the goods and services when we need to if the security team isn't seen as fully on board with that mission and that um that responsibility then there's there's a non-equity sort of relationship going on between the two different teams so you really need to bring them all together and make sure that everybody um understands supports each other's wins and goals it's awesome that you've been a cio and a ciso and you've seen all of these in various different companies i'm sure maybe in smaller bigger wherever have you so you're able to really relate to that uh i find the csos i talk to uh most of my relationships in the years past have been with cfos and cios uh i set myself a personal goal this year as we started getting more into security as i've been shaping that strategy of the company to meet a thousand cesars i was 15 years ago at symantec and most of the csos i know are retired and moved on so uh it's a good new way of my understanding and i find as i talk to them so refreshing the ones who are strategic like yourself uh have had tremendous experience in id or are also owned them and are able to paint a vision that's very collaborative as to as opposed to ones who don't then are also able to strategically bring teams together so it's really good to to see that i'd like to kind of just work a little bit more into security because i mean your strategy plays into the reason we're quite carbon black um and you i have some obviously you know knowledge and investment vmware but i'm listening as i was listening to prior to getting on to this you know program together you're probably doing more with carbon black which is awesome i mean it'll probably strengthen our relationship with vmware too and of course but we can talk a little bit about that what's been your history carbon black why you picked them and where do you see that going on the endpoint security um and then i'll talk a little bit about how we're trying to try that into infrastructure too yeah so um so my relationship with carbon black goes back to uh almost right after i first arrived at circle k um obviously i know uh from having come from consulting a number of different uh tools and products out there um although carbon black always had a really good reputation and strength and um i went to carbon black pretty early on and said you know here's my here's my situation i've got a little bit of carbon black and a little bit of other things in different places i really want to standardize on a single tool i really want to get to a better visibility of my overall network and of my of my risks and ultimately i want to have a single pane of glass but um that you know i've got folks working from an eyes on 24 7. um you know carbon black hands a table really quickly and had a great vision uh for how they could get us uh standardized across some different versions that we had um and when i said okay i want to do this in six weeks or fewer um they didn't say we can't make that happen um i think a lot of people on my team wish that they'd said that we can't make that happen but um but now we were able to really rather quickly um deploy and and get up to speed across all of our stores across all of our networks all of our you know we're a very distributed organization i've got offices all across north america and europe um and uh and we were able to in six weeks get get standardized and get things up and running and i had gained great visibility uh in that and i'm a big believer when looking at all sorts of tools whether they're input tools or security tools that you know you can tell whether or not you've picked the right solution if it's fit for purpose relatively quickly if it feels like it's too hard to implement if it just feels like it's you're not getting the value out of out of something in a relatively quick period of time you really do need to look at whether or not the tool you're looking at is fit for purpose in your environment and i would say the carbon black team and the carbon black tool that made it really easy for us and um you know it's giving us great visibility we have been able to uh detect and respond to a number of different instances you know retail is a very uh high threat high target industry these days um so it's been it's been super helpful in us defending um circle k in our environment and with 130 000 employees i suspect your number of endpoints are in the tens of thousands on the client side and probably just as many in terms of server-side endpoints right so your your kind of surface area of potential endpoints is pretty large oh indeed and you know but you know you have over 15 000 stores every store has multiple point of sale systems and at multiple uh computers laptops tablets devices um and that's and that's even before i go out into the uh what we call the forecourt which is where the gas dispensers and pumps are so yeah it's very complex well listen we look forward to that journey together part of what she has talked about here is a key part to our vision uh folks listening to this is to basically bring together security to make it key parts of the infrastructure both in the endpoint the network and the cloud thank you for your partnership i look forward to getting to know you and your team better um thank you also for all you're doing to serve the community during these tough times especially those workers at circle key that are the front line in the stores we appreciate you tremendously and we look forward to continuing this dialogue thank you very much thank you thank you everybody for watching this cyber security insight segments titled security as a team sport we talked about the shift in security and how security is moving to a shared responsibility model in this team sport in this segment we also discussed the benefits of a consolidated security and an i.t strategy that allows for fewer breaches and a faster response to security incidents as key benefits that have implemented a common strategy for those who have done this i encourage all of you to watch this part two of cyber security insights the securities of dual mission and we will have two security leaders discussing how security helps not only protect but help drives the business forward thank you all for watching this segment [Music] you

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are Thursday, day four of the RSA Show here in Moscone in San Francisco. It's a beautiful day outside, but the show is still going, 40,000-plus people. A couple of challenges with the coronavirus, and some other things going on, but everybody's here, everybody's staying the course, and I think it's really a good message going forward as to what's going to happen in the show season. We go to a lot of shows. Is 2020 the year we're going to know everything with the benefit of hindsight? It's not quite working out so far that way, but we're bringing in the experts to share the knowledge, and we're excited for our next guest, who's going to help us get to know what the answers are. He's Oliver Sherman, senior director, Enterprise Product Marketing for Juniper Networks. Oliver, great to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, so first off, just general impressions of the show. I'm sure you've been coming here for a little while. >> We have, and I think the show's going very well, as you pointed out, there's a couple of challenges that are around, but I think everybody's staying strong, and pushing through, and really driving the agenda of security. >> So I've got some interesting quotes from you doing a little research for this segment. You said 2019 was the year of enforcement, but 2020 is the year of intelligence. What did you mean by that? >> Specifically, it's around Juniper. We have a Juniper connected security message and strategy that we proved last year by increasing the ability to enforce on all of your infrastructure without having to rip and replace technologies. For instance, on our widely rolled out MX routing platform, we offer second tell to block things like command and control traffic, or on our switching line for campus and data centers, we prevent lateral threat propagation with second tell, allowing you to block hosts as they're infected, and as we rounded that out, and it's a little bit in 2020 we were able to now deliver that on our Mist, or our wireless acquistion that we did last year around this time, so showing the integration of that product portfolio. >> Yeah, we met Bob Friday from Mist. >> Oliver: Excellent. >> He, doing the AI, some of the ethics around AI. >> Oliver: Sure. >> At your guys conference last year. It was pretty interesting conversation. Let's break down what you said a little bit deeper. So you're talking about inside your own product suite, and managing threats across once they get to that level to keep things clean across that first layer of defense. >> Right, well, I mean, whether you're a good packet or a bad packet, you have to traverse the network to be interesting. We've all put our phones in airplane mode at Black Hat or events like that because we don't want anybody on it, but they're really boring when they're offline, but they're also really boring to attackers when they're offline. As soon as you turn them on, you have a problem, or could have a problem, but as things traverse the network, what better place to see who and what's on your network than on the gears, and at the end of the day, we're able to provide that visibility, we're able to provide that enforcement, so as you mentioned, 2020 is now the year of an awareness for us, so the Threat Aware Network. We're able to do things like look at encrypted traffic, do heuristics and analysis to figure out should that even be on my network because as you bring it into a network, and you have to decrypt it, a, there's privacy concerns with that in these times, but also, it's computationally expensive to do that, so it becomes a challenge from both a financial perspective, as well as a compliance perspective, so we're helping solve that so you can offset that traffic, and be able to ensure your network's secure. >> So is that relatively new, and I apologize. I'm not deep into the weeds of feature functionality, but that sounds pretty interesting that you can actually start to do the analysis without encrypting the data, and get some meaningful, insightful information. >> Absolutely, we actually announced it on Monday at 4:45 a.m. Pacific, so it is new. >> Brand new. >> Yes. >> And what's the secret sauce to be able to do that because one would think just by rule encryption would eliminate the ability to really do the analysis, so what analysis can you still do while still keeping the data encrypted? >> You're absolutely right. We're seeing 70 to 80% of internet traffic is now encrypted. Furthermore, bad actors are using that to obfuscate themselves, right, obviously, and then, the magic to that, though, to look at it without having to crack open the package is using things like heuristics that look at connections per second, or connection patterns, or looking at significant exchanges, or even IP addresses to know this is not something you want to let in, and we're seeing a very high rate of success to block things like IoT botnets, for instance, so you'll be seeing more and more of that from us throughout the year, but this is the initial step that we're taking. >> Right, that's great because so much of it it sounds like, a, a lot of it's being generated by machines, but two, it sounds like the profile of the attacks keeps changing quite a bit from a concentrated attacks to more, it sounds like now, everyone's doing the slow creeper to try to get it under the covers. >> Right, and really, you're using your network to your full extent. I mean, a lot of things that we're doing including encrypted traffic analysis is an additional feature on our platform, so that comes with what you already have, so rather than walking in and saying, "Buy my suite of products, this will all" "solve all your problems," as we've done for the past, or as other vendors have done for the past 10, 20 years, and it's never worked. So you why not add things that you already have so you're allowed to amortize your assets, build your best of breed security, and do it within a multi-vendor environment, but also, do it with your infrastructure. >> Right, so I want to shift gears a little bit. Doing some research before you got on, you've always been technical lead. You've been doing technical lead roles. You had a whole bunch of them, and we don't have internet, unfortunately, here, so I can't read them off. >> Oliver: That's fine. >> But now, you've switched over. You've put the marketing hat on. I'm just curious the different, softer, squishy challenge of trying to take the talent that you have, the technical definitions that you have, the detailed compute and stuff you're doing around things like you just described, and now, putting the marketing hat, and trying to get that message out to the market, help people understand what you're trying to do, and break through, quite frankly, some crazy noise that we're sitting here surrounded by hundreds, if not thousands of vendors. >> I think that's really the key, and yes, I've been technical leads. I've run architecture teams. I've run development teams, and really, from a marketing perspective, it's to ensure that we're delivering a message that is, that the market will consume that is actually based in reality. I think a lot of times you see a lot of products that are put together with duct tape, baling twine, et cetera, but then, also have a great Powerpoint that makes it look good, but from a go to market perspective, from whether it's your sellers, meaning the sellers that work for Juniper, whether it's our partners, whether it's our customers, they have to believe in what's out there, and if it's tried and true, and we understand it from an engineering perspective, and we can say it's not a marketing texture, it's a strategy. >> Right. >> That really makes a difference, and we're really seeing that if you look at our year over year growth in security, if you look at what analysts are saying, if you look at what testing houses are saying about our product, that Juniper's back, and that's why I'm in this spot. >> And it really begs to have a deeper relationship with the customer, that you're not selling them a one-off market texture slide. You're not having a quick point solution that's suddenly put together, but really, have this trusted, ongoing relationship that's going to evolve over time. The products are going to evolve over time because the threats are evolving over time, right? >> Absolutely, and to help them get more out of what they already have, and from a go to market perspective, our partners have an addressful market that's naturally through the install base that we have, we're able to provide additional value and services to those customers that may want to lean on a partner to actually build some of these solutions for them. >> All right, well, Oliver, well thanks for stopping by. I'm glad I'm not too late on the encrypted analysis game, so just a couple of days. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks for stopping by. Best to you, and good luck with 2020, the year we'll know everything. >> Absolutely, thanks for having me. >> All right, he's Oliver, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at RSA 2020 here in Moscone. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (gentle electronic music)