>> Narrator: From the VMware campus in Palo Alto, California, it's theCUBE, covering women transforming technology. (electro music) >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at VMware in Palo Alto at the third annual, Women Transforming Technology event. Really excited to be here. I am joined by Shelley Correll, the director of The Clayman Institute for Gender Research at Stanford. Shelley, exciting day, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you, good to be here! >> Lisa: Big news. >> Very big news! >> Lisa: So you're also the founding director of The Center for Advancements of Women's Leadership. The Clayman Institute has been around since 1974, but you've been partnering with Vmware for the last five years? >> Shelley: Yes, in a variety of ways, yes. >> So talk to us about the big announcement today with Vmware and The Clayman Institute. >> Well we're very exited, we've been working with VMware for five years, as you said, in a variety of different capacities, And have really been engaged with them over the idea that we could better connect academic research with practice. And so, the news we had to announce today is that they are investing 15 million dollars into our efforts and we're going to be launching a new lab that's going to be focused on advancing women's leadership. >> Lisa: Phenomenal. Talk to us about some of the foci that you're going to be focusing on to accelerate the change we need, not just to bring more eyes and ears in dollars to it but accelerate it. >> I'm glad you used that word, that's exactly what it's about, it's accelerating. We come into this with research that shows very clearly that the progress, in terms of moving women into leadership, has just all but stalled. The progress we're making is very slow, and if we just sit back and wait, we're not going to see, you and I aren't going to see gender equality, in our lives, our daughter's lives. It's not going to happen. And so we're asking ourselves, what can we do to accelerate change? And so, to me, one of the most important things that we need to be doing is bridging the gap between academic scholarship, which tells a lot about the barriers to women's leadership, with the kind of activities that organizations are doing, the diversity initiatives their putting in place. If we can join forces, then I think we can better accelerate change. And so that was kind of the idea behind this lab. We really have three main things that we're hoping to accomplish. One is to diagnose the barriers to women's advancement, across all kinds of diversity that women occupy and own. So understanding those barriers, and then second is piloting solutions, working within companies to develop interventions that we can put in place, so we can learn how to get beyond the barriers. That's the kind of next thing that we're doing. And third, is just to be a hub of information. We're going to take these learnings from our research and translate them into tools that people can use, to be able to put research into action and in their own organizations. So that's the three-prong goal of this new laboratory. >> Lisa: So exciting. And it's something that, you know, as we talk about, it's 2018 and this is still such a massive issue. It's been very widely known for a long time that the numbers of women in technical roles in technology is what, below 25%. But something I found interesting when I was doing some research on you is that there's also this motherhood penalty that I was unaware. Tell us a little bit about what that is and how is that something that maybe this new innovation lab will help to eliminate? >> Right, and I think it's important because when we think about putting solutions into place, we know that they're not going to be, sort of, one-size-fits-all solutions. They're going to differ for different kinds of women. And in my own research on the motherhood penalty, what we found are very clear gaps between women who are childless and women who are mothers. And in fact, the wage penalty that we usually talk about, the gender wage gap, is largely a gap between mothers and childless women. And so, we got to asking ourselves, why? Why would a women who's a mother be so penalized relative to a childless woman? So we've got gender inequality, and now we've got this motherhood penalty on top of that. And so, our research found that if you take a resume for a woman and you just add in subtle information that she's a mother, >> Lisa: Like on the PTA, or something. >> The PTA association, that people are 100% less likely to recommend her for hire. >> 100%? >> 100%, yeah. You know, it's a huge gap there, and so, as we dig deeper, what we see is that people's stereotypes about mothers, are that mothers are so committed to their families that they couldn't possibly be committed to their job. Every one of us who work with mothers in the workplace know that's not the case, right? But yet that's the stereotype that's holding mothers back, in addition to what we find for women in general, if you will. >> So if a man on his resume has that he is a soccer coach or a baseball coach, that is not factored into the decision to not hire him? >> Well it is, but guess what? It advantages him, it doesn't disadvantage him. >> Lisa: Advantages? Yes, so for fathers, we find that people see fathers as more committed to the job than childless men. So, we're seeing how parenthood works differently for men and women in the workplace. So I think one of the barriers we want to get past is the effects of biases on how people are evaluated, and they're not just gender biases. They're biases about gender, but also about parenthood, about race, about ethnicity, about sexuality. I mean, all of those things intersect in complex ways. So, it means that we're going to see different barriers for different types of women, if you will, and that means also that we're probably going to need to have different kinds of solutions as well. >> Absolutely, so something that interests me is, you know, in the last six months, me too movement exploded on the scene, times up, Brotopia, a recent book out by Emily Chang, that is shocking to say the least, very informative, enlightening. When those movements popped up and there was a, sort of, unlikely alliance with Hollywood, I'm curious, we're you like yes, good, we have some momentum here that we need to be able to leverage to making the gaps, as you said, there's so many that women face, more sensible intact, was that kind of a let's get on the same bandwagon? Yes, you have to ride these waves when they happen. The problems that me too is identifying are certainly not new problems, and this has been going on as long as women have been in the work place, but the attention to it is what's new, and so, as a scholar when there's attention to important social problem that you research, you ride that wave. We've got the world's attention now. Let's use that attention to take the messages about what we know from research and the strategies we have and get them out to people that need them, so it is an opening that allows us to take the me too, kind of, moment that we're in and really turn it into a movement that produces sustainable change. >> We need to get our own hashtag. (laughter) What are some of the things that say in this next, what are we almost and half way through 2018, which is kind of scary. What are some of the, maybe, the small ones or the quick ones that you think with this new VMware partnership that you're going to be able to identify and uncover in 2018? >> We've been working a lot on ways to reduce unconscious biases in the workplace. I think some of the projects that we're launching are really about going into organizations and diagnosing where a bias might be affecting how they're evaluating women at the points of hire, at promotion, as we're thinking about who to put all the stretch assignments. So identifying the way those biases are occurring in workplaces and then working with managers in those organizations to design tools to help get beyond those biases. This is some work that we have stared initially that we're now expanding to more research sites and so I think that's one of the first things to do is to really go in and try to remove these biases that don't, they're not good for women, but they're not good for the organization either. If you're biased against women, what that means is you're not valuing women's talent and any organization wants to accurately assessing the talent of people in their workplace. >> I think I read in a press release this morning that a McKinsey report that said that organization, if I can, yes. According to McKinsey, companies with diversity on their executive teams are 21% more profitable than those who lack diversity. Profits. >> I know, it's profit. We see it with innovation, too. It makes sense if you think about it, right. If our biases we causing us to see women as less talented than they are and maybe men as more talented then they are, what that means is we're not hiring on average the most productive, talented people. I think all organizations want to source and hire the best people they can, and so we're moving these biases as one way of doing that. And, when we remove those biases, I think improvements or diversity will follow. >> When you look at a company that's been around for a long time and you think wow, culture is very slow to change. >> Shelley: Right. >> How do you advise organizations that have been around for decades that are predominantly male led, especially at the executive level, to just be more aware and open to changing the culture to, you know, maybe it's hey, you could be 21% more profitable. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> Who doesn't want that? >> Shelley: Who doesn't want that, yeah. >> How do you have the conversation with an accumbent about cultural change? >> Right, and I think sometimes people think culture is just sort of what it is and cannot be changed, but we can make small wins, small improvements in that culture, and so one of the things that has been most effective in our research is to go in and work with managers on trying to improve how they're hiring people, how they're promoting people, and so the conversation isn't really about culture. It is at a deep level, but it doesn't seem like that at the surface level. It's really about how can you more accurately asses talent, and when you start asking that question, what you start seeing is the ways that you were assessing talent before were flawed in some ways and they were flawed in a way that was limiting your ability to see women's abilities and their talents. The conversation really is just about doing what I think we all want to do, which is truly evaluating people based on their merits, and I think if that's the message, a lot more people are on board with that. The other thing I'll say is when we had, we were working with a company who was telling us that one of the ways they assessed people for promotion was they wanted their leaders to be very responsive to people in the organization, and that's a great value to have, right, to be responsive. When we probe them about how do you know when someone's responsive, they didn't really. First they couldn't articulate how they were evaluating that. What it became clear is without clear criteria for assessing responsiveness, they're implicit measures were like how quickly does this person respond to email. They realized that women weren't being as quick responding to email, especially during the dinner hours. I think you and I can know exactly why that is. >> Right. >> They they got to starting thing, well that isn't maybe the very, that's not a very good measure of leader responsiveness, and they went back to look at their responses from women and they were more elaborate, they were more detailed, they were more helpful, and so the measure they were using was sort of, it was biased against women, but it was also not productive for what they were trying to do. These are the kind of small wins that open people eyes to the fact that they could do things differently that would be good for diversity and inclusion and would be good for what they're trying to do as an organization, the bottom line as well. >> Wow, what are the other things. We talked about, you know, the numbers of women in technical roles is very small, under 25%. Another big challenge that we have in technology is attrition, and the fact that more women leave tech for other industries than women leave other industries. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> What are some of the things that your research has shown that companies can do to also, not just focus on bringing in young talent or working with universities on STEM programs, but for women that are maybe in the middle of their, whether they're thinking about the leaving the to have a family or simply this is not the right environment for me. That retention from middle career. What are some of the things that you found there? >> Yeah, and I'll say too about, I think one of the sort of narratives that people tell themselves in companies is that women are leaving tech to have children, but women don't leave tech to have children at any higher rate, and actually a lower rate than other professions, so it's not, that's not the reason they're tech at a higher rate than some other places. There's something else going on there. I think working on improving the inclusion and the environment is really important for retaining women. Surveys that sort of show why people left their jobs find that in tech, a big reason women leave tech compared to other places is they don't feel like they're supported in the workplace, more so than in other places, even including other STEM fields, like science and things like that. Higher exit rate because they don't feel included in the workplace, so the question is, what's the barrier there? What are we doing in our workplaces that women in tech don't feel included and what can we do to change that. I think, again, removing some of these biases, if you're in a workplace where you constantly feel like your talent is not being appreciated, that's one way you quickly don't feel included as a technical worker. I think this sort of cultural change that we're talking about is probably even more important for retention than it is for hiring. >> Do you think that younger companies maybe start us maybe, you know three to four years old or less than 10 year's, we'll say, have a better chance at being able to morph quickly and pivot than a larger company that's been around for decades? >> Yeah, I mean, it's much easier to get things right to begin with, you know, so people sometimes ask you know when they're founding a company how soon, you know, do we need to have a woman on board, and my answer is always as quickly as possible, and I you get to 10 employees with no women, you're already behind the curve. Really, kind of starting off with the idea that we want to get the culture right to begin with so that we don't end up having to scramble the eggs later down the road, and that's one of the things we've learned from working with VMware, is early on in the founding of this company, there was an attempt to create the kind of culture that I think more companies are wanting to emulate today. >> We've got Betsy Sutter coming on a little bit later and I'm really curious to talk to her about coming on years ago, when VMware was a start up 100 people. >> Shelley: Exactly. >> And now being in this chief people officer role of an organization of 20,000 and here we are at VMware today walking into a room of females who are here to really kind of embody what the charter of this consortium of WT Squared is, is connecting and inspiring, but supporting women and tech of all levels, right, not just here in Silicon Valley, but beyond as well and having the powers coming together from industry, from acidemia, from non-profits is, it's a very, the vibe when we were in the key note just an hour ago was so palpable that there's certainly that we will create change. >> Betsy's so inspirational to me in this regard, is that she has been here since 2001 and was sort of critical to getting the culture in place at that point in time and, you know, it's not that VMware doesn't have challenges with hiring and retaining a tech. All companies do, but they've created a culture from the beginning that I think is kind of a model for what companies are wanting to do today. >> Last thing before we wrap, here, is we had the opportunity to listen to Laila Ali and so cool. >> Shelley: So cool. >> I mean, just to hear a confident women, who was probably born with a natural confidence, that women have and some women don't, but to hear her talk about hey, sometimes this interwar, the flame is out or it's low and I, too, have to say this is my purpose. This is my passion. I don't want to have to look around and constantly think I'm in a man's sport. I know, this is my sport. I thought just that having that world kind of talk to us, women intact to say hey, it's going to take reminding yourself often what your purpose is, what you're passion is, but she challenged us to do that and I just thought it was a really encouraging, inspiring message for everyone to hear so early on a Tuesday morning. >> We run sort of a leadership program for high school girls and this whole issue of purpose is something that we really stress as well is when you're trying to lead and people aren't following, stop and ask yourself what was the purpose in doing what you're doing and articulate that purpose to others and that's the way you can kind of bring people along. I just loved her example today about when you're not feeling confident, go back and ask yourself why, the question of why. It's too easy to go through life just doing things and losing our sense of purpose and that really is a good source of confidence because you're doing something for a reason that really matters to you. That will help recharge you. >> Absolutely. Shelly, thanks so much for stopping by. >> I enjoyed it, I enjoyed it. >> TheCUBE this morning and sharing your purpose and the exciting news of what VMware and the Clayman Institute are going to do. We look forward to hearing some of the great stuff that comes out in the next few years. >> That sounds great. Thank you, nice to talk to you. >> And we want to thank you. You're watching theCUBE. We are on the ground at VMware at the 3rd Annual Women Transforming Technology event. I'm Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching. (funky music)

>> from New York City. It's the cue covering automation anywhere. Imagine, brought to you by automation anywhere you >> were in midtown Manhattan, at the automation anywhere. Imagine Crawford's twenty nineteen really psyched to be here. Fifteen hundred people talking about our P A. But really, the Rp story is much more than just robotic process. Automation is really a new way to work, which we hear about all over the place and really reimagining what this technology can do. We're excited to have our next guest. She's Shelly Kramer, an analyst and partner for feature research. Shelley, great to see you. >> Great to see you, too. And you got it. >> I got a right. >> You got it. >> Well, you're a very busy lady. Got all kinds of stuff going on, which is what we like. So first off, just kind of Have you been here before? General impressions of the show. >> This is my first, Uh, this is my first, uh, automation anywhere event. And so it's exciting. I write a lot about our PPA and about the future of work and work force transformation. So it's great to be >> here. Yeah. And you just wrote not a super uplifting article linked in about, you know, employee dissatisfaction and some of the issues with employee retention. We talked before. We turn the cameras on about things like calling him human resource is, you know, and human capital there, they're people. And I thought my here really touched on it. Well, in the keynote today that this is not a rip and replace technology for people. This is a tool to help us do our jobs better, just like our laptops and our mobile phones and our application. So are you excited about the opportunity? See, it is this transformative. >> I do see this transformative. And I think that before you talk about what we talked about, the technology that we have to talk about people and Simpson and I'm pulling this out of my memory banks. So on average, about eighty two percent of employees within any organization are disengaged. OK, eighty two percent. >> So the ping pong tables and the tables are not doing it. >> And so when you think about it and engaged workforce are people who wake up in the morning or whatever it is, they go to work and who are excited about what they're doing excited about their company. They're working for love, the culture that they're working within. I love all those things that they're doing. And so when you realize that eighty two percent of people are disengaged, that's problematic. Right then, you're talking about the toughest talent acquisition markets that we've had in a really long time. So we're all fighting for top talent, not just top tech talent but any kind of talent. And so focusing on how we can make the workforce better and create better cultures and put systems and processes in place that can make people do their jobs more efficiently, more productively and actually like them. That's to me. That's the beginning of where we get to this technology piece and what our P a Khun Dio How? Aye aye plays a role in there and how you can. How employees can partner you think of technology as a partner, as opposed to worrying about technology replacing them. So I think it's an exciting time in the workforce, and when you think about it that way, it makes a lot of sense. >> Do you think the difference in kind of the expectations that people have when they Goto work to be engaged as a function of the millennials who are looking for something that's more mission lead. Is it a function of just the competition? It's so robust that before people could get away with having, you know, maybe a less compelling work experience. What do you think is driving? The changer hasn't changed, and maybe now we're just paying more attention to it. >> You know, I think it's changed in a little bit. I think that you and I are old enough that when we were coming of age and we were working our way up the corporate ladder, you know, you kind of sold a little bit of your soul to the company store. No matter. I mean, I gripped in advertising, right, and, you know, I work crazy hours, and I loved it. But I never questioned that there were dues that I had to pay, and that's what you think. And I think that people don't necessarily expect the world on a platter. But I think especially the more skilled you are, whether it's a knowledge of tack or whatever it is in today's market, I think that ueno and again it could be someone my age. It could be someone that's twenty five. It could be someone that's forty. I can find something else. So minute, this isn't doing it for me, right? I can go find something else right now. That said, there are also people who are punching a clock. You know what I'm saying? And I don't mean ship workers. Necessarily. As much as I need to pay the mortgage, I need to get my kid's bed. You know, I don't love this job. Maybe it's a path to something. One of my daughters works for an insurance company. She has a very non glamorous job. She doesn't love it, but she knows she has to do it for X amount of time before she can be considered for this different promotion. And she is watching the clock on literally. I'm getting to that milestone and asking for her promotion. And if that doesn't happen, she'LL leave. So so I think that when you can, people don't feel like they need to be stuck, right? So I think that way. As a CZ leaders and his executives in the workforce, I think you always have to be mindful about what the work environment that you're creating is and focus on. How do we keep how do we get people? And how do we build the value props that we used when we entice them to say yes to our offer? How do we get them to stay? >> S o many things there, But But, you know, what things you just mentioned is is I don't think they accept it like we did. Maybe when we're coming up, which is, you know, you hire somebody and you hire them for the act tributes that they're bringing in the organization than it used to be. Then you give him the employee rulebook and you basically squash, you know, kind of all the individual creativity and ingenuity and enthusiasm, which is why you hired him in the first place. And we don't see that as much anymore. But at the same token, you know, not everyone's worried about robots taken their job at the same time. There's so many unfulfilled Rex out there. And as you said, it's the most competitive labor market out there. How our employers supposed to kind of square that circle because they need to bring the automation they want to keep the people happy. It's a hyper competitive market, and they need mission. But, you know, we gotta pay the bills and get the products out. >> I think that So I think that we can never forget that people that work for our companies need to pay the bills too. Right? So when you can give them something that they could be excited about, Tio dio that helps. Right? But it just kind of like I'm thinking back Teo, uh, presentation and I can't remember his name. But the V p of product did a presentation about today on a loan mortgage loan application. Okay, that has to be like one of the most boring things, right? If you're in that mortgage loan processing, do this. Do this. Do this villain this spreadsheet love about, By the way, I hate creating spreadsheets. I just want to look at a finished one. But anyway, it was so cool to just look at this, and I shot a video of it, shared it on Twitter. If you want to see what I'm talking about, but which is so cool that you can do this and do this and do this and you know you create this process. And in no time the technology has done all the work and all the calculations, and you've got a recommendation approved, not approved. And so if you're in the mortgage loan business, way to think about that leased, the way that I think to think about it is, doesn't mean that your job is going to go away. It's just like my daughter doing that not very exciting job that she's doing. If automation could fuel some of the mundane, repeatable, banal tasks so that she could focus on the other part of the equation where it's more interesting and more exciting, I think then that's really the value equation there. But I think as I think, what businesses have todo is be transparent and very honest with their employees and tell them, you know, this is our This is why we're doing this. This is what our means, and this is how it's going to add value. It we're not doing this to necessarily replace humans. This is so that we can make this work better, efficient more, you know. And I think that you know, I'll step back and say for a personal example. We went through a process last year where we evaluated all of our business processes, and we looked at how much time our employees were spending sweet track time doing certain tasks. And then we were realizing, you know, the value there. We were actually paying too much in terms of the time, investment or tasks that didn't make sense to. Then we set out integrating automation into our processes, and it was it was a big project, right? And people were kind of worried, you know, and they were kind of worried about it. But one of the things that way told them early on with, like, This is not so that we don't have work for you. This is so that we can make what it is you're doing more efficient and you could do things you like better, >> right? Right. >> And so and that has happened and way didn't lose any of our team. And a lot of those task that they were doing are now automated. They're doing stuff that they like more. So I think that I think that's really the challenge for businesses. Two is the messaging right and then involving your teams in the process, appointment of any kind of >> technology. I think it's just the soul crushing. You know, expression is so it's so valid for for these types of activities. And I think again may hear had a great stat. Four percent of US jobs required a medium level of creativity, which you know people want to get out from under that. But if we can define it as a tool and is a thinking like personal digital assistants, my body will. That used to be just my palm three was my p d. A. Right wow how no. One No one was threatened by the Palm taking the job away. So I think you know, you're right. If we can put it in the context of it's just another tool that's just gonna help you get your job done. That's a very different way to frame the problem versus kind of just ripping replace narrative, which we hear kind of over and over again. >> Well, and I think it also goes beyond Jeff. It's goes beyond, and I think that employees at every level have to understand this. It goes beyond just helping you get your job done. It really is about, you know, cos that survived today and tomorrow are the companies who transformed. And, you know, we talk a lot about digital transformation. And you know, I'm out there on the front lines all day, every day, and I can promise you there are many, many companies who are far from really understanding and embracing this and understanding what it takes from a technology standpoint and the value, that data ad and how to use that data and and the impact that that has on customer experience and all that sort of thing. So So I think it's really is about much more than this will make your jobs suck less >> right, right, Right. >> I think it's about this is how our company stay successful. This is how you helped make your job in the role you play within our organization, what you want it to be, right? And I think that you could probably telling, you know, I've been marketing because I'm always thinking about you know how I know how you spend something and I don't mean in a spin like a PR way, but I think we all have to step back and think about it in terms of the whole equation. And there are a whole lot of companies that don't exist anymore, right? You know whether you're talking about the financial services sector and you know and every business everywhere is being disrupted. I told this story. I was I was talking with me here earlier this morning and I was telling him a story about how my husband, I just bought a new car and we expected to get a loan for that car from our community. It's not a community from our our local bank local. Our local bank has been recently purchased by a bigger bank in the last couple of years, but we run all of our corporate money. I mean, everything that we've ever done is here in this way. You know your spell. ITA loan application. No problem. Give us an interest rate. No problem. But they made every part. My husband I vote travel a lot for business, and they're every part of the process required us to be somewhere together to have an official closing. To do this, to do that and it was just like way could never purchased this car because they were making it so difficult for us. So we enter death talking with the car dealer who said I'm not God. We can fix you up, financed it through their banking partner, which is a huge national bank approved in five minutes. Loan documents in five minutes. Hey, come on out. You sign this tomorrow? He consigned this when he gets, you know. And when I talked to my bank after the transaction, they said, Here's the deal. I wanted to do business with you. But when you make it difficult for a customer to give you their money, they're not gonna hesitate to give somebody else there money, Right? So So I think the banking industry is one example of the these processes that air so cumbersome that in some ways can be automated, but it just it doesn't make sense. And customers today you and I are impatient people as our people younger than we are way. No, there has to be a better way. An analogy could give us a better >> win it right, And, you know, they could use different data sets. And I mean, I've bought himself recently, and you just push the button on the phone and it takes a minute. The wheel spins and then your approved right and you're done if you're done, and it's it's a completely different experience. But the part about the digital transformation I want to follow because it came up today where a lot of times people are the integration point between these systems very similar to the example you just used and you can't digitally transform. If all these automated systems ultimately have the bottleneck through some person to take this piece Veda and stick it over there, right? So it's it's absolutely critical to get those people out of the way, right? So as you look forward twenty nineteen, what are some of the big trends beyond our P A and kind of personal digital assistants not called palm, uh, that you're seeing and that you're excited about? >> Well, I think that, you know, it's hard not to be excited about our p A. Just simply because of, you know, it's predicted to be a one point nine billion this year and to almost double by twenty twenty one. I mean, it makes sense that companies like automation anywhere doubling down on that right. It also makes sense that gigantic companies like IBM and Jo Lloyd and you know why. I mean, you >> know, hearing for >> all here, right? There's a reason for that, right? Because IBM customers want this and Microsoft's customers want this. So So I think that in general I think that technology is fueling our world. Our personal lives are business world, and I think that probably one of the biggest things that I pay attention to to that we pay attention to is that technology alone isn't the answer. It's the partnership of human beings and their skill sets and capabilities and data and automation and artificial intelligence and all those things. So I think that I think that it's an incredibly exciting time. It's kind of like, you know, you you go back to the video that we saw this morning in the bit about the Internet, and I don't know if you remember this. I don't know, probably. I don't know how much older I am than you, but, you know, I remember that Internet machine and wow, this is like I could send an email, you know? And then when you think about right how and those comments, You know that Matt Lauer and Katie Couric we're making it like that weren't down comments we didn't didn't know, right? Know the impact Internet could have would have, you know. And so I think the same is true of this kind of technology today. This this next generation of technology. So there's not just one thing I'm interested. I'm interested in Element. >> Gotta keep learning right because way have a hard time with were very linear and everything is growing exponentially. So you got a got to be willing. Teo learned the next thing because it's right around the corner, >> and I think that's so key. That's that's a great rap. I think that people who are happiest today are people who actually love change and who love learning. And I would say I would posit that most that those air not inherently things that people trades that people possess. I'm lucky because I do. You see what I'm saying? I think it's >> an interesting question, whether that's inherent. If there's just people that liked the learning, our curious all the time, and that and then they got to stick in the muds and Candice stick in the muds, change your attitude and become learners again. >> Maybe they won't. I mean, you know, I think that they're I do think that there are are people who are wired to like change and two are curious and who loved learning. And I think there are a whole bunch of people who are not. And I would I truly believe that for success in today's world and moving forward for young people and not so young people, you better get there if that's not your deal, because I don't think that I did it. And I have stumbled across conversations of people having like, you know, that's not gonna happen, you know? So I don't have to worry about it because I'm gonna be outta here by then. Or and you know what? There are a whole bunch of people that have that mindset, and that's a okay, but especially for young people making their way, >> they okay mindset. But it's not the fact that that's the problem. It's it's happening now. I mean, the future is here, and it's happening at a faster pace. Well, Shelley, we could go on and on and on, but we're going to leave it there. And I appreciate you taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Absolutely. My pleasure. >> All right. She Shelly, I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Where? Automation anywhere. Imagine in Midtown Manhattan. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

from the VMware campus in Palo Alto California it's the Cuban covering women transforming technologies hi I'm Lisa Martin on the ground with the cube at VMware in Palo Alto at the third annual women transforming Technology event and we're here with a cube alumni Betsy Sutter SVP & chief people officer at V and we're so great to have you back on the cube thank you it's great to be here this is a very exciting day yes I love these types of events because you walk in and you just feel the sense of community and empowerment and and that's one of the great things that WT squared is in in and of itself its acronym of organizations that's right industry academia and nonprofits to help women connect learn from each other and support each other not just here in Silicon Valley but beyond and this is 30 annual this was sold out like within hours yes amazing amazing momentum that you guys have brought now to the third year great yeah we're really excited we're really excited and it's a new approach right it's creating as you said a consortium of companies to come together and just have real-time conversations about what's going on around gender equality and so yeah I'm really proud of this conference mostly because it just brings such a diverse set of people together men and women we have more men attending this year than ever before and so the conversations are just elevated they're fun yeah so you started at VMware when I was a startup with about a hundred people and here you were now managing this organization that of 20,000 people yeah big undertaking yeah talk to me about kind of the cultural change in shifts that you've seen and probably been able to drive from you know the last 15 years or so yeah you know the culture has been a pretty deliberate strategy from day one and I give the first CEO and founder Diane Greene a tremendous amount of credit for being really clear about what she wanted to build and she really wanted to build a sustainable company and a culture and she knew culture was the differentiator and even the current CEO today Pat Gallagher and I know that this is the single biggest differentiator that we can continue to strengthen in the company and then all the diversity inclusion and conversations are just part of that at this point in time but it was a deliberate regi plain and simple always keeping an eye on that and the values are at the core of that right and then the culture and the behavior reflect the values and so it's just been steadfast and stalwart on who we want to be over the past 20 years it's our 20th anniversary as a company and yeah I've been here for 17 of those but that's the work that I've really focused on it's been terrific that being deliberate is really key there yep so this third event inclusion in action is the theme yep how do you see that Bing how do you how do you live that and infiltrate that at VMware yeah well you know we are a company that has wanted to disrupt the tech space and so in order to do that we've had to stay focused on innovation innovation innovation and we really innovate in everything not just in our technology and our products but how we bring them to market how we support them but it also affects a lot of the work that I do in my space and in order to innovate you have to be inclusive of just a lot of different viewpoints and I like to say that we started out sort of in as an industrial research kind of company we were born out of Stanford a lot of computer science you know graduate students creating what we've now become and that's just been kind of the path is just collaboration even though we're 22,000 people now we still kind of take that approach to everything we do and speaking of Stanford big news out yes morning yeah gratulations thank you is investing 15 million dollars in a new women's leadership Innovation Lab that's right Danford that's amazing yeah we're thrilled we are so excited and Shelly Carell professor of sociology at Stanford we our partnership has been with Stanford since 2013 I think they've really helped us navigate everything that we've done in the inclusion and diversity space and so this is a new chapter and it's around women's leadership and it's around women's leadership and innovation and this lab I think is gonna reap some great results research based work is sort of at the heart and soul who we are right and so this is just more of that it's gonna be great to take progressive research groundbreaking research and put it into practice and so Shelley and I couldn't be more excited about what's next awesome well one of the interesting things is I was reading in the press release this morning that came out that according to McKinsey companies with diversity at the executive level 21 percent write more profitable that's right why aren't more companies even paying attention you know that that is a great question because most companies are about making money and wanting to be profitable yeah so it's it's perplexing that people aren't really honing in on what research is showing but you know suddenly it comes down to power and influence it's all about who has the power and who has the influence and so part of what we're doing with Stanford VMware Women's Leadership Innovation Lab is figuring out how to get women into more leadership positions and get them into more powerful and influential positions and that will be the thing that equalizes you know gender inequality so in the last six months we have had big movements me too yeah time's up yep growtopia there I'm Emily Chang published recently right how when you when you when that first came out with all the Harvey Weinstein stuff teachers say good we need to be able to get to leverage this moment and was that do you see that as being pulled into the tech industry and and helping to accelerate making this diversity change i I think things are getting accelerated and amplified because I think voices are being used and heard and I think there's a movement and I think women are coming together as a consortium around their gender and understanding that the real issues are around power and influence and tackling it head-on and the quality of the conversations around all of these movements is it's inspiring to me after spending 30 odd years in tech so I think things are really starting to change because women are using their voices yeah speaking of women using their voices you had Laila Ali as a keynote yeah that was so fantastic strong confident woman yeah who the daughter of Muhammad Ali who tried to talk her out of becoming a fighter right tried to - I love how she said he tried to actually kind of get me I think it was my idea to not go into it right so obviously a woman probably born with a lot of natural confidence but I loved how she kind of talked to all of us and said he sometimes that light goes out or its dimmed and I need to remind myself with you our best yeah so you probably see a good amount of females that have that sort of innate confidence that love engineering and I'm gonna do this how do you encourage those women to may be mentor some of the of the either younger or not other females who want to do something but are intimidated by you know maybe don't have that natural confidence how do you kind of facility at that empowerment yeah well I do think Leila's story is amazing and you know most importantly she's an entrepreneur and a businesswoman right I mean what she's done with her career with her foundation but what she's done with her career is most impressive and I love that digging deep and find that warrior from within yeah but I think for women today I think the difference is that we're able to have the conversation with each other and even with the opposite sex and I think companies are starting to understand that if you don't have diversity you're not going to have innovation and you're not going to win and most companies that I've worked for and VMware in particular we want to win we want to lead we want to disrupt and we want to impact the world and we want and need to make money as well but I think for women now the conversation is allowed I know that people are listening on both sides of the fence and we do a lot of VMware just to make sure that conversation is alive one of the things I'm really proud of it VMware and that I really believe is it's been the quality of the conversations since day one that have put us where we are in the world and in the industry and as a company and so the conversation shifting a little bit right we're talking more about this and it's those quality conversations that just keep it going and and that's sort of core to who we are so we'll just continue that trend and it's great being able to talk to the cube because you're allowing us to amplify the quality of the conversation so I'm grateful and we're happy to be a part of that so just just the about the event there are a number of tracks right also that was something that I was mentioned to you before we we started filming was I loved that when I walked in there was a jot yeah I love that and as well as a LinkedIn profile right resume clinic all of these you think minor things those can be really impact that's right if a woman has a great head challenge wow this is fantastic or somebody guiding her on what or what not to put on a LinkedIn profile just even providing some of these things that are foundational yep that's really huge it is really huge and it's also just a new platform for these conversations to continue whether it's just a visual because you're looking at my LinkedIn headshot or my Twitter feed or whatever it is but these are all really small things but matter really small things really matter yes and so building those up into people's psyches and their abilities is sort of what we're trying to do as part of the conference so in context of the third annual event the sold-out events and this great announcement of what VMware and Stanford are doing yeah what are some of those quick wins or exciting ones that you're looking forward to seeing the rest of 2018 yeah I think I love that question I think the key is continuing to join forces to continue to lock arms and continue the conversations and so a lot of what I love to do professionally and personally is create those platforms for people to do those kinds of things and that's what women transforming technology is about this year and has been about the last two years and I think we'll just continue to do that and people will tell us what we need to know and where we need to go awesome if you look back at your career would you have forecast your success being you know the chief people officer is c-level or would you yeah you know what was that yeah I met such that's it I'm just starting at this point in my career to really reflect on that no I never imagined having this amount of responsibility and privilege never in my wildest dreams it wasn't an aspirational goal I knew that I wanted as much influence as I could have to achieve results I'm a professional problem solver this is a pretty meaty problem that we're tackling but no I I didn't a dream it now I feel a huge amount of responsibility to start to talk about it I'm a I think I mentioned you I'm a behind-the-scenes kind of person I like to work back there understanding the problem diagnosing it coming up with a solution and then helping implement it but now it's time to kind of talk about what's happened and where we are and set course for the future with so many wonderful women last question for you yep because the attrition rate is so high for females in technology yeah what advice would you give to a woman who's on the cusp of leaving not to sort of family but just going I'm not sure I feel supported here what advice would you give her yeah I would give that person and I do give this advice on the right to go out and have lots of conversations and just start those conversations you just don't know what you don't know and I've had women come to me and at the end of 45 minutes to an hour tell me they're thinking about doing something else and it saddens me especially if they're at vmware because i don't want them to leave but go out and have those conversations and explore what's next don't be afraid of the conversation and sharing what's happening to you with you at your work and events like women transforming technology are only going to help continue to get more eyes and ears on every side of whatever gap we've got aware of this and help all of us become part of the solution that's right to accelerate diversity because as the data show companies could be far more profitable if they've got that thought diversity that's exactly right and it's just that simple but it's just that difficult exactly yeah it was that simple well Betsy thank you so much but a pleasure joining us and allowing us to be part of the voice and getting this away it's out there for women transforming technology as well as helping to hopefully empower and inspire all of the current and future generations yeah attack no I really appreciate you being here - thank you our pleasure yeah we want to thank you for watching the cube I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at women transforming Technology thanks for watching [Music]

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cute covering knowledge 15 brought to you by service now okay welcome back everyone we are live in Las Vegas this is SiliconANGLE Mookie bonds to cube our footage and event coverage would go out to the event started sitteth on the noise i'm john furrier likos day volante our next guest is Jen Stroud senior director and general manager of the HR applications within service now a former customer now general manager welcome to the cube thank you great I get the service now shirt on the jersey of the number everything right I'm official how does it feel so give us a quick you know Darkseid is always a dark side but I won't say which one it is is they always say with the VCS you join the dark side when entrepreneurs join the VC ranks but in this case service now pumping on all cylinders just like a well-oiled machine with the fast side yeah fasten what's it like give us the perspective it's been tremendous that I've been to two knowledge events before but as a customer very different perspective on this side and it's been it's been fabulous very fast you move fast here you have to keep up but it's been wonderful for me to engage with the partners and the customers here to see all the great things that customers are doing with the platform and with our product and also understanding where they want to see us take the the product going forward as a culture like its service now as a company you're in there ask you there for profit yeah kid jittery revenue from customers and I have a product they bring to the customers to get paid for that what's it like internally was the culture like what's the people like it's it's been incredible to be a part of this culture and a little I wasn't what I expected I knew it was going to be very fast-paced but coming in and being able to rely on everyone to make sure you're successful everybody is interested in everybody being successful and I think that starts from Frank on down he's created that culture and so that's what it's about everyone is staring in the same direction and we're I've always said in Silicon Valley you know people you know high fliers come goes a lot of love you come in and out but building a sustainable business is really haha yeah so you gotta give props to Frank's loop and talk about what you've learned Massey HR managers are out struggling this is in the press now small medium-sized businesses you see all kinds of certainly in Silicon Valley where I live you know eight lawsuits coming from just not keeping your eye on the ball little things like yeah Oh someone's offended in a meeting boom lawsuit I've been discriminating against so there's all kinds of stuff happening just by having shot eh our practices so talk about what that means why that's happening is it just because they're lazy or the games change the technologies change what's going on with in the HR application space I think some other people have said it in my colleague Eric hammer who's a solution consultant now leads the enterprise practice said it HR is kind of a 10 to 15 well five to ten years behind IT they're finally understanding that you can't manage with spreadsheets and email anymore and we're seeing it I don't care the the size of the organization or what their annual revenues are there are many organizations struggling with the same thing how do they provide a better experience for their employees and how do they do it in a consistent way and so that's we're seeing it out there the opportunities large and small with with customers it's very consistent Frank Frank mitch is a real time piece what's your perspective on that I mean being real time means service and complaints and managing that I'm sorry Dave I know oh absolutely i mean that's you want to be able to support your employees in a way that they're used to being supported in interacting outside of work right and yet especially the younger generation they come in and they want to work with a company that understands how to how to do that not you know managing through emails and so they want to come in with a hit company that you know gets it so service now is able to provide that type of experience so the state of Technology in HR is changing quite dramatically we were talking I was talking earlier guys from KPMG you know peoplesoft gets acquired by oracle it sets off this chain reaction taleo success factors work day comes into the market space and so the tech base is changing and then all of a sudden service now starts to play and people are confused people asked you yesterday yeah alist me who are you competing with with work day and of course no although you know but we've been asked eight or nine times already I'm just two days you'll continue to be asked you know and then you said something just recently to John that people they can't you know manage effectively with spreadsheets and the like so there's a lot of confusion because there's a lot of ton of technology that's begin going into a human humble management for decades there's some new cool cloud texts coming out technologies work days just you know one example successfactors many others and then and then service now with service management tied to the HRP so what's happening on the technology substrate how would you describe the changes that are going on it's it's amazing I mean they're the companies are understanding very quickly and you look at companies that have done results from their 2014 surveys of large leading HR organizations they understand that they have to to change and to leverage SAS technology in order to be able to to keep up so you like you were indicating we don't have any plan to compete with the workdays or the essay peas or PeopleSoft out there are our whole philosophy is let's figure out how we complement what they do and give like Frank said yesterday and I love what he said let's give let's give our customers choices let's give them good choices that they can they can have a good choice what they want to do ok so you're an HR pro so that's the many people in our audience have the same question that you've been asked nine times today yep you're not competing with the the transaction component that is work day you don't go to service now to to change my you know data about my self but we could if you want to though okay so we could be that front end so I mean again that's Ultima you start there you say yes sir then that make sense yeah go through service now so every request but we're not going to store that we're not we're not the system of Ragnar the system of record there that's the difference mm-hmm right okay but now love flip it so you're not going to go compete with with work day no but if I'm work day and I'm saying wow this company's service now is doing really well they grow in a 50 plus percent a year they got this great market cap maybe I should start doing some of that stuff now they could yeah but they're not going to do the other things it's hell's force like Frank said the other day well hey I talked to penny off all the time you know we're birds of a feather in a lot of ways we're developing apps they're developing absolutely a company like service now with a market tam of 40-plus billion you're playing in a lot of places especially when I have a platform that can do anything that's right now where do you see that all going well I mean in my view when I look at what I want to provide HR leaders I want to provide them out of the box a product that meets the majority of their needs and delivering services to their employees I and I want it to continue to and will expand on this and future releases look and feel the great user interface because it's all about the employee experience with HR IT doesn't care about the employee experience HR cares about the employee experience so really really working on that user interface and that experience and and the workflows for me the the possibilities are limitless what is it you and the work days of comprehensive system but optimizing workflows is interesting because there's so many different workflows in HR so there's that kind that stands like the strategy just picking it's almost like I Tina sends pick a few critical workflows could be trendy hey we got this new law comes out or longboarding of course is the big one that everybody's talking yeah so what is those use cases what are the key ones you guys are well I mean you have leave of absence as a big use case every HR organization and and it's it's one that can be very sticky it can also bleed into legal and other areas of the business so leave leave of absence managing those leave of absence requests some basic ones that are easy to ition reimbursement employment verification really standard that we that we will be offering out of the box too to our customers a pto request managing time off those are all yes you're lying fruit to use automation automation the other ones are just more yeah it's rewire or something or you know could be exposure that's right yep what percent of companies in your experience do performance reviews I just want to ask you as an HR pro ah too many too many too many do you think it's a I reproductive I think the so this is another probably great reason why I joined this organization is in Frank's and Shelley's philosophy on performance reviews and it's not formal the way we consider it formal or HR many HR organizations do with you know the whole performance review and setting goals he really believes that that that whole responsibility lives with the manager and HR is there to support the manager and I love that philosophy but we have to as a as we're developing our product understand that unfortunately this organization don't share Frank's philosophy ok so you're saying that many organizations have the HR oh they do the performance I feel like a neophyte I didn't know that what that's insane absolutely would you have the HR department it is performing well and i and i don't necessarily i don't i don't agree with it but it absolutely i would majority of organizations HR still manages the whole performance whether the sense that they sent a syntax they had the structure and process yeah which controls the behaviors of Manokotak attendance it's a whole they don't do the review submitted yourself they don't do their reviews but they they set the schedule and you must have your reviews done by this time and you must miss assurance icon the dentist makes your teeth pulled yeah basically and then they're constantly pounding on managers when they don't get it done to get it done get it done get it done i mean that's that's the way it was in my previous company no no offense but it just does it's not it doesn't work well what does frank with what what what Frank's philosophy and Shelley's philosophy is here and that is managers are responsible for the performance of their team and you reward people for their performance and then comes in the last place already no prize for you yeah so I want to ask question about systems of engagement versus a record this comes up a lot and that I look at it a little bit differently as I don't look it from the HR perspective mother from the day big data side what's your view of it from an HR perspective what is the definitions of those systems of engagement systems of record I can also imagine so I look at it and this from this is the my philosophy when I was on the customer side I wanted to create that one stop shop where my employees could come where they knew exactly i took all the guesswork out for them here's where you come to do everything now ultimately they may be the they may be interacting and engaging with a form and service now and that was going to feed being an integration to our hrs is system which was oracle that's fine but they don't need to know that for them I wanted to create that standard look and feel standard system of engagement that was predictable for them easy to use and that's really what you want to provide employees you want to make it easy that's an employee that's the app that's user interface user experience that's right flows and clicks yep click stream where all the information is ultimately stored is a whole different matter and not necessarily important to me other than I want to be able to integrate with those systems so bad you I bed ux taking that to the next level means you don't get the data you need for the systems records so the engagement date is pretty critical engagement is is absolutely critical if you want your your employees to use it if it if it is a bad you I if it isn't a good experience they're going to go I'm not going to use this and they're going to they're going to the employees make themselves heard very loudly so they'll let you know if it's a bad experience so that creating that great system of engagement where it's easy to use and they know how to use it that's important about mobile as it relates specifically an HR context that's the conversation we're having are you happy with where you are with mobile is there a lot more work to do there very happy with where we are but as with everything I think we can continue to enhance what we offer it's absolutely a necessity in HR as you think about where many of the employees make their benefit decisions it's not at the office on their lunch break it's at home with their with their families and so they may be you know looking for information and the knowledge base or making a benefit selection on their mobile device at home not at the office so being able to provide that capability on a mobile or you know iPad device is very critical she has talked a lot about you know the affinity with work day of course I know an eel and Frank you know birds of a feather and friendly but there's a lot of other HR platforms out there oracle SI p many others what about those we also so right now we're focusing just because the market there's a lot of shift to an interest in work days Oh cloud its cloud yeah and but other the other ones are also coming up with they have cloud as well as record yeah yeah so so with the Geneva will have a two-way integration with worth work day to make that easier for customers but then we'll be focusing on additional out-of-the-box integrations with those other hris systems as well so does it have to be cloud-based I mean everybody's cloud now everybody is just like it better because you're why it's this is part of the mantra it's easier it's easier for you it's easier for the customers it doesn't action okay yeah this is a big so what's your goal now you're in there get your running shoes on three feet in a cloud of dust making things happen to get some teammates to support you servicenow yeah what's next what's what are you gonna work on what's your plan well we just don't we're still not known enough in the HR industry as a trusted platform in HR so we've got our work cut out for us there and so you know it is about what we're building in the product that's going to help us but it's also going to help us getting out at HR tech that's coming here mandalay bay and octo we'll be here other events working with analysts as well to help them understand what we're doing and really it's going to be about creating more success and a great customer base so that you know this time next year I hope to you know be able to say you know we really are one of those vendors that HR looks to first and not you know us trying to get in there to have the because I think once they do and once they look at what we have to offer it's it's it's very intriguing for them but we really want to be you know on top of their mind it sounds like your strategy then is to say hey you know what you big pickle the big decisions we're going to come in create some value pretty nimble pretty agile land and expand and if that grows it grows and not really mutually exclusive to some other platform no and in we absolutely are concentrating right now on where we are very successful so we have a lot of great customers already on the IT side so they all have HR departments so we're absolutely focused there in 2015 but beyond we really want to expand and be first okay Jamie keep a track and we'll be following you if you need any help let us know we go stroll at the cube to HR tech con and in October it's the cube we are live here at Las Vegas extracting the scene from the noise shared that with you I'm genre Dave vellante we'll be right back after this short break of the next guest stay tuned off

>> Q. At service now Knowledge fourteen is sponsored by service. Now here are your hosts, Dave Volonte and Jeff Frick. >> We're back. Sheila Jordan is here. She's the CEO of Symantec. We're live. This is the Cube. We're at service now. Knowledge fourteen at Mosconi in San Francisco. We're going to hear today, Wednesday and most of Thursday. So stop by. If you're at Mosconi, Mosconi south, Come in. Look to the right. Cuba's there. Stop by and say hello. Shelley. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you >> very much. Excited to be here. >> Yes, sir. You were across the street. I guess that, uh, the CEO event, right. What's what's the vibe like over there? Describe it. >> Well, I would say this about that three hundred or so CEOs and it really is fascinating because everyone's kind of discovering how important the clouds becoming and how relevant, Because becoming in the in the CIA world, it was years ago. It was more about if the clouds coming. And now it's here. And it's a question of CEOs of struggling whether answer, The question is, how does this really integrate with kind on from solutions? So, really, it's making the cloud more and more real. >> You know, it's interesting. Five years ago, if I asked the CIA about the clouds, you know, they would say It's another quiver in the another arrow in the quiver and you know we're looking at it. It's at its centre and some might say, Hey, we're not using the cloud, especially financial services. But practitioners would roll their eyes on the clouds. The clouds, I t. What do you mean? The cloud that cloud, the cloud that seems to have changed on the practitioner bases is more accepting of that notion of the cloud. What's changed? >> Well, I was a couple things. One is, I think, that when we used to kind of roll, our eyes were very concerned about the security of the cloud, for sure. And I think with the cloud providers have seen lots of improvements in the security angle. Nothing I'LL tell you is in it. We constantly get the pressure of delivering things faster and cheaper, and the cloud offers us that solution to be able to deliver things faster and cheaper, whether that's, you know, for your HR systems or whether that's for something of a solution. So promise Israel. We're beginning to see that, and I think they're really shoring up the security aspects of this. How >> does it change your roll? One of the changes that are sort of required from CEOs. Perspective. >> Yeah, I will say that I think that the CEO today is really focused on five big things mobile cloud structure and unstructured data. So the whole day to play as well as, you know, kind of your personal or professional identity. And then, of course, the final one is the Internet of everything. So Mohr devices coming into the enterprise. And I really think the thing that flows through those five things is two things. One is data that flows through that. So where the data is sourced from a cloud or on crime, the end user wants to have a similar experience whether we're the data source from and the second component is of course, you know how weak secure that. You know, The whole notion of security is becoming more and more critical that, you know, security things at the network layer is good, but in the end, device is good. But now we're being asked to really make sure that we're securing things across the entire enterprise stack. While everything's changing devices are changing, the sourcing is changing as well as you know now the new devices with the Internet of things. >> We do a lot of big data shows and it talks about the data is the new oil and, you know, the data centric organization. How real is that? It that Samantha? I mean, you've only been there three months, I know, but you know, least on your observations, just semantic. But generally in your community, how real is that? >> I think is very real. In fact, I would say that the job of the CEO is to protect the company's assets and to protect the data. And that's assumed that the employees assume that the CIA was going to do that. It's certainly become a bit more difficult, given cybercriminals are getting smarter and there's more hackers and more were ways to hack and, of course, the devices coming in. But I still think that the role of the CEO has to be to protect the country's assets. >> There's an interesting discussion we have. We actually do a conference in chief Data officer conference with them it in July, and the premise that Emmett has put forth is that chief data officer is a new role in the organization should be independent of the CIA, should appear of the CEO and have ownership over, you know, a lot of different. So the data assets the data taxonomy, data sources. It's still fuzzy where the lines are done. When you talkto a lot of the big data practitioners, they say, No way. That's the CEO's job. Um, have you thought about that much in terms of you need the datas are Are you the datas are? >> Yeah, I actually think you could, but especially, I think it depends on certain industries would make that more more >> realistic. Air Service is the regular. >> Actually think the chief information officer has information and data already, and I think that's a big part of our role. So whether it's a separate role or not, the coordination, the combination and reliance on each roll is really critical. >> So don't you have enough to do? Yes, well, now they wanted to innovate right way force of innovation. They want you to be a business partner of Value Creator outside of just the acid. So how does that all playing? Well, measure And >> that's why I guess it's so fun. We've always said that being an I t you gotta like change and being an I t for aninety company, you're really gonna like change. And I would say that it is What's exciting about the CIA role is yes, I can't authorize it simplistically, but it's around, run the business, changed the business and grow the business. And if historically, it might have been that CEOs were just about run the business, not anymore. CEOs are expecting us to run, change and grow. And we got to find solutions and technology cost effectively of how we can do that. >> And now you've got all these megatrends hitting you like a ton of bricks. Like you said, Cloud Mobile social. How's that kind of change the game in the last couple of years? >> Well, I thinkit's both exciting and daunting at the same time. I think it's exciting because it does open things up and again. Most of our employees are also our. All of our employees are consumers, so they're having this consumer like experience and they want to come into it and they want to come to work and now the same kind of experience. So I think it opens up a whole new way for us to deliver services. And one of the things we're working on in semantics is to create a services led organisation. What? We actually are delivering services. So your email services you're content service, your video service, your pricing service so that we can really deliver these services in a way that you have consumed the services as a consumer. >> So you used to be a mean still is most like tea shops. Talk about systems, you know? Sure, it's covered by claims system. That's where my investment is going. It's this big silo infrastructure built around. Do you see that changing? Where were the parlance, even changes to my services? This is my service catalog. Salome Charging for >> that. Yes, I do. Pretty sixteen pretty substantially. And we're implementing that kind of service is lead mentality. It's semantic now, and the reason is because the system of the applications is at some level kind of irrelevant. You know, you gotta replace systems and applications, but ultimately you don't want to replace the service customer. Our employees want to get used to having that video service. They really don't care anymore where it sourced from on from in the cloud, and they don't necessarily care about what technology was used to get there. They want their service. So I think as a ninety organization won by creating the services led organisation, you are really clear about how you're spending the dollars and really clear about how the transparency of the cost of those services and then really clear to your point. You know, I love to shop on the Internet as a consumer, and I'm so used to picking and clicking right. And so we want to deliver services that simply to the organization that people understand the service in the cost of the services. >> So did you see I love the whole concept of portfolio management, the application portfolio, run, the business, grow the business transformed business, the old meta group, you know, taxonomy. I love that and and And I could see I used to work with CEOs all the time, and they would actually use that and say, OK, we're just going to subjectively say, Here's my run. The business absence. My grows, the business grow. The business has transformed the business. We're going to allocate the portfolio accordingly. Do you look at your services catalogue the same way. And how does it where would you like to see it? It's It's very difficult to get out of that seventy thirty year, you know, because by definition, you're always running. Yes, you know so But how do you look at that? That mix and how do you What's your ideal mix? >> Well, it's very difficult because you do have to do kind of portfolio planning, but I do think with Cloud Solutions it offices offers us a different solution to be more cost effective and agile. So clearly you're gonna have some and run the business. But I'm not necessarily spending a lot of money on the actual infrastructure to take some on from solutions that we used to do. So the cost will be total cost of ownership. It should be less with some of the cloud services. That's the promise. So when I think about run, grow change, I know other sources like Gardner and Forrester will say that a large enterprise company spends sixty five seventy percent on run the business. Still, even though I've made all these advancements, we haven't aspirational goal. It's Samantha Guy t. I'm not sure we can get there because again it feeds. But if we could get to a point that we are really a third, a third a third, wouldn't it be cool if I could deliver two thirds of the spent on change and grow versus run? So it's aspirational, but I'm not giving you that. >> But you know what? So maybe maybe we're thinking about the wrong way, because maybe that's an impossible equation to solve. Maybe we should be looking. I wonder if you'd get your feedback on this just struck me. Maybe we should think about it like almost like product cycles. I remember one of the CEOs around here. We usedto be very proud of the fact that a product cycle intensive business said seventy percent of the products that we have, you know, on the seventy percent of our revenue is coming from products that we've announced in the last twelve months. Maybe that's how we should be looking out for, because by definition they're going to be more modern, more innovative, and with the services catalog approach, you may be able to do that. These are the services that we've launched in the last X number of months, we could look att consumption. Do you think that's ah, Reasonable, >> I think is actually interesting way to look at. And I would say that was some of the things that service now is actually introducing. You know, one of the things we want A ninety is just visibility. What service is being used if I had a rank them and them? Ranking and writing. Oh, they four stars, five stars. We want that visibility across organization and delete, delete, delete. The things are defective and that aren't working sometimes the nineteen. We don't know that or see that. So one of the things I think it's really important is with service now or any other solutions is that when we get that visibility, we could go back and say to the organization, Look for people using the service. You know, it's no longer effective as it used to be, less deleted and again that feeds into that cost savings will feed into run the business and growing >> Jr s getting rid of stuff. We never get rid of stuff. And I really that's my goal is value. We have to leave. You need to leave Well, That's interesting that you put a different twist on. We hear a lot about now the apus king, right? Everyone is about the at the at the AP line of business was to build your own app. But you're really putting the certain delivering. The APP is a service above explore application and knocking down the value of the particular app that delivers that service. >> Yeah, I am, for a couple reasons. First of all, not miso and a mobile device you're going to need your absolute All are addicted to our certain laps, for sure. But the reason why I think about that on the Enterprise is because a service is going to be ultimately comprised of the technology process and culture and people, right. So a nap in my mind still gets us to just the technology. When reality To make these service Israel and continue to optimize the services, you're gonna need the service owner. You got people in process to really optimize that service. So it's the super structure >> right above the to deliver the revised >> Yes, yes, and that's a really good point. I think in the past it is always and we always will be held the total cost of ownership. It's really, really, really critical that we show and be fully transparent of our cost. But I actually think with the new technology that's available and we're being expected by our CEO's is we have to deliver value as muchas cost value at a reduced cost or an approved cost. But I think the the conversation needs to continue to push. What's the value that technology can deliver? Not on ly the Kansai, and that's happening. >> We heard earlier today. Friend of yourself, Frank Ski? No, but he was talking about how you had, you know? So the traditional days you got application group, you got infrastructure group infrastructure does operations. They you know, they take the code and take it. You know, the employees at the application guys, you know, we all know the story. Now you see the devil ops culture you're seeing programmable infrastructure. Is that happening in your organization? You see those sort of two worlds defusing or morphing into the business and becoming a devil sculpture >> in pocket. So and say where we have those labs or where we have proof of concepts in pockets, Yes, hasn't been pervasively changed in the organization. Not quite yet. And I think a couple things One is we're in some ways just learning about kind of infrastructure as a service and how I can actually you push up a server and fifteen seconds or less type thing and provisions at server in fifteen seconds. So we're learning as an organization, the whole sum or is Asians are simply better than others, but we're learning on the whole infrastructure of the service. We're learning how we could deliver the applications as a service. So I think the next net and so we're using agile development things and scrums and things like that. But I think the next natural evolution is Dev Ops. Now, I would say that you gotta be kind of careful and where you play and push that because it's a holy learning. You gotta make sure the people challenge. You have been really? Yeah, skills and talents. But I do think it's the next next area, folks. >> So we'LL pick up on infrastructure is a service. We obviously you got the gold standard of of Amazon. Look at him. He's gonna go. Wow, That's pretty impressive what they've done do you look at that and say, OK, there's a big chunk stuff in the margins development that we should just put in tow that cloud Or do you say, why don't we duplicate that? Replicate that in house. Which approach do you think your organization? Well, >> for almost two reasons we're doing Private Cloud. You know, again, I want to be the biggest proof point of semantics products that I possibly can. So that means I have to be customer one toe are semantic products and test them out and make sure we're giving the feed back back to the semantic group. So we're building our private cloud inside semantic right now, which really will become that infrastructure as a service using the latest and greatest technology software to find networks, etcetera, that we're really going to get the whole stack that allows us to do that. And I will tell you that that where we are today versus what the vision is, it will actually leapfrog the foundation of what we're able to do with the company. >> Okay, so So you want essentially duplicate that and guess what You know, the public loud guys are doing That's very secure environment pressures on. Yes, Believe me, I know in time. So now now does that chance. Talking about skill sets before they change the type of people you need to bring in, you have to hire more PHDS way. >> Well, it's not really the species is the real technical talent that no, this new space. So again we had done a several years. Semitic has outsourced their I t organization. And as we bring that in, we gotta make sure and bring in the right skills that supports the new technology. >> So also, outsourcing ended up being, you know, sort of my mess for less, and then it ended up not being less so. You know, a lot of guys have brought that back in, but okay, so you sort of replicated, tryto, tryto leapfrog that capability. Do you become a a profit center? >> Oh, I think it's dangerous. I think it's a real slippery slope if it becomes a profit center. And the reason I say that, it's because I think our focus and our number one job is to really deliver an optimal excellent experience for employees while providing again being in it for ninety company. I think our job is to make sure we deliver the best experience we can while showcasing our products internally and testing and using them. The second you have another motive or another driver, I think it takes the eye. >> So I kind of agree with you. I mean, I do what I don't In the one hand, if you were to sell your services externally than I gave him that, I would disagree, Right? But because you've got a captive audience, you saying you would basically monopolistic power, corrupt, like all monopoly, we >> can certainly come up with what I've pushed suggested my team is way can come up with a whole bunch of ideas of how to improve the product. Or maybe there's a gap in our product strategy that we can suggest to the business unit. So I think in that case, as we come up with and we are the number one customer of our products, that we have ways to enhance it before the product goes to market or opens up another opportunity. Our business unit leaders are really open >> Now. What about chargebacks? Okay, so you're not going profit center. What about chargebacks? >> You know, another thing that I think is a pretty slippery slope. You know cross charging charge bags. It's a complex overhead that ifyou're one company, why do you add that I'm a real a real simple person, and I just like it simple and easy as someone hold accountable and >> companies don't do it, they fif. Fifteen percent of companies will do charge back. It sort of stuck there >> a lot of a lot of over a lot. Yeah, and I'd rather drive accountability into the person that's delivering the service has accountability to do that. It's cost effectively as possible. >> So, Sheila, on the Five Things you mentioned, one of them was your your personality. Well, it was a personal thing I know is you went to a very quickly. >> I'm sorry. So five big trends that I see happening from a knight from a trending perspective in the industry that CIA is really going to need to be thinking about it. And they have already This isn't new, but I do think the five together is pretty powerful. It's of course, mobility, right? It's cloud all the cloud services. Third is around data. So both unstructured and structure data coming together. And of course, I think Nirvana on that one is when unstructured data could be fed into part of the decision. Making like structure data is right. That's going interesting. The fourth is the convergence of personal professional identities. So people are coming into the organization with their mobile phones and they want one phone. They want one device. So how does it professionals and what's the right solution for different industries merged, or at least containerized, whichever one you want to do? The personal versus professional identities and in the last one is, of course, mobility is one thing. But all this explosion of other devices >> get me on the mobile, >> right? And so and then what? Lose all that together is data and, of course, security way have to make sure all that secured as we traverse all those different trends. >> Actually, we're here. Where do you report into the organization >> by reporter Seo Stevens? Let >> Seo. Okay, so let's say Stephen's doing your performance review. You know, when you came on its okay, these air, your objectives if you maybe, you know, you guys write it together. What a Your objectives for the next twelve months. >> Yeah, so it's interesting times, it's semantic, and I would say that we've agreed that it is been there now sixty days so over. Greed is really this. Insourcing is a pretty big effort initiative and especially around how we can stand up our own data center, our own network, all the others ligation migration. It's a pretty big effort. The other part, I would tell you, is pretty important for semantic right now. Is the global Security Office reports to me as well, so understanding the security risks and making sure that we really do have have understood and really being thought, leadership in the security space. That's kind of number two. And I would say, in general the overall services lead how we change the structure of the organization, the number three >> and and I would imagine here on early consumer of a lot of the semantics security product. >> Yes, they are. >> So you must be pretty important. Constituent throttle groups have a lot of a lot of juice with those guys. It >> that's part of the job it's really, really fun is when we could actually provide some important feedback on their products and see it see it built into the road map. It gets quite exciting >> So how you know, we heard again Frank this morning saying, Look, see, I always gotta know as much about the business is business people do. That's that's a tall order, especially in a company the size of a semantic. But do you buy that? At least in part on How do you How do you develop that knowledge? >> Well, I would say that, you know, first of all, yes, I buy into it. I really do think and again it goes back to being in it for ninety company Being there customer you have. You have a pretty big seat at the table, and I think it's really important that you're not only giving advice and counsel on, you know, the product strategy and where we think there could be potential gaps and where things could be improved. But you also have to tell someone you know what that price old or we don't want to use that anymore or show some of the some of the inefficiencies in the product. So I think one is being absolutely tied to the product strategy, and having a voice in the product strategy is really critical. And again, I think, given that you represent the customer base at that table is also quite exciting. >> You go to sales meeting. >> I'm actually not yet sixty days, but we actually have a big customer meeting coming up next week which I'll be attending. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a great way to learn about the products and the challenges. >> Yes, that too. And I love talking to the customers in my previous rules, like talkto the customers in line. >> So they talk about the evolution of the rules, Theo in the not tech company, um, and change of tech as a competitive different theater in York Disney for you before Cisco Ice Arlington. So how is that changing >> lights? They Actually, it's kind of similar challenges in being an I t. For the tech company. You really are kind of tied to the product of being an instrumental influence in the product strategy. That's one in a non tech company. You are challenged with this whole notion. Well, that's what I get as a consumer. So I still even thinking a non titan technology company when they come to work and they have a less technical experience in the user. Experience is less than one way to get at home. I think consumers in general are just getting smarter and smarter. Smarter about I have that that email storage ten acts that at home I have my mobile device that were You know, all these things that were experienced as consumers is coming into all the industries in that expectation of I wanna work differently is just that you get on company >> with no appreciation of what it means even more just the magic in the Magic Kingdom about that conversation we had before. I mean, is the gold toe really replicate that or just get good enough? You know, I think you know Microsoft. There we say suffers Good enough. They made a ton of money and good enough business because can you get there because you're talking about scale of Amazon and Google and Facebook and Microsoft? So do you have to be just good enough? Where do you have to be? Good as good or better? You said leapfrog back, or that was that was notable. >> Gonna leapfrog our data center structure data center strategy. What I think is I do think in delivering a servant out has two teenage children in college, and they sometimes wonder. You know why work is that both now manage the enterprise, and they can't quite figure out talking to interns at work. They can't figure out why they don't have. This is twenty twenty one. Yes, I can't quite figure out why the experiences the same. And when I told my children as well as the intern Group, I says, Listen, work is a bit more complicated than face the pictures and status, you know, work really is. And as a nineteen professional, you have this obligation and responsibility to protect the company's assets. So, no, do I ever want to get to a point that it's as easy as Facebook? What do I ever want to get to a point that you know, pictures on instagram and things like that? It's not practical to put that in the enterprise. Do I want to get to a point that their applications that they use on a daily basis and we're driving a sales sales forecast and it's really important that timely and decision making of that as an app on their phone? Yes, I do. >> And it's self serving self service mobile. >> So yes, I think we have to be really careful and really explicit about what app. So the right APS for work and what happens to the ones that you know are just too much risk >> that this expectation set in communications and all the stuff that new CEO has really got a good act with a head of steam. It's good crystal. All right? Shall we gotta leave it there? Thanks very much for coming with >> me as well. Thank >> you. Thank you. All right, but keep it right there. We'LL be back to wrap up Day one from service now. Knowledge, We're live. This's the Cube right back.