>>The Cube presents Ignite 22, brought to you by Palo Alto Networks. >>Welcome back everyone. Happy afternoon. It's Lisa Martin and Dave Valante of the Cube. We are live at MGM Grand. This is Palo Alto Ignite 22, our second day of coverage. Dave, we've had some amazing conversations, as we always do on the queue, but cybersecurity one of my favorite topics. So interesting to hear what Palo Alto Networks is doing, how it's differentiating itself and how it's ecosystem is >>Growing. Yeah, well one of the things I always, I often use ServiceNow as a reference example. I go back to 2013, had a kind of a tiny ecosystem and then sort of watched it grow. And one of those key signs was when the global system integrators actually began to lean in Accenture, obviously world class, one of the, you know, definitely in the top, you know, they talk about top five QBs, Accenture, you know, top five GSI easily. >>Yep. So, and in fact, Accenture, we've got Rex Stex in here, senior managing director at Accenture Security. You guys have been the GSI partner of the year for Palo Alto Networks for four years in a row, six years plus strong partnership. Give us a little flavor and history of the pan of the Palo Alto partnership with et cetera. >>I think, you know, we started early, right? And I think as they've evolved, we've evolved our partnership with them and as they've gone, you know, to more of a software footprint with, you know, around cloud security and network security and sassy, we've, we've seen a lot of growth and we're super excited about the opportunity that's ahead of us and the meaningful outcomes that we've been providing our clients as it relates to, you know, vendor consolidation, toll consolidation, tech debt reduction. You know, there's a lot of opportunity here to simplify our clients' lives with them. And that's something we're super excited about. >>Simplification, consolidation, been a theme of the last couple of days. Talk about some of the joint accomplishments that you guys have achieved. I know that you developed a lot of offers across all of Palo Alto Network's, GTMs, what are some of the highlights that come to mind? I >>Think one of the things that we're most excited about, you know, that being client specific is what we've been able to do on, on, on the network side with sasi and, and zero trust, network access. You know, as when Covid hit, there was a lot of change that happened with remote workforce and, you know, clients couldn't log in because their VPNs were crashing left and right. And so we were able to, you know, go in and help stand up, you know, this, you know, zero trust network infrastructure and help our clients get back online and get their employees back to work in a productive manner. And then it's evolved with the hybrid work model over time. And so it's, it's been a, that's probably the most gratifying cause there was a real crisis at, at a certain point in time, you know, a couple years ago were >>There Rex, were there unintended consequences of that, you know, rapid, we were forced, you know, the forced march to digital in terms of just multiple tools, plugging holes, and then sort of stepping back, you know, post isolation economy saying, okay, hey, we got through this, but now we need to take a new direction, new >>Strategy. I think that there, there isn't an intended consequence if you look at, most clients have, I saw a number 76, we counted as around 80 different security vendors and tools that they managed because a lot of people went and went after best of breed type capabilities. And, and so what we've seen now is, is the need to, you know, rationalize that, you know, their, their infrastructure and their, and their capability and, and consolidate and reduce that and, and move to, you know, more of what I would call platform providers. Cause if you may have, when you have 80 products, you have 80 integrations, 80 points of failure, and it gets very complex and, you know, there's a lot of finger pointing. And so as we're starting to see clients take a step back and say, Hey, look, if I, you know, spend the time to, you know, I call it modernization, but you know, modernize my security infrastructure and footprint focused around, you know, automation, orchestration, leveraging, you know, true ml and I know there's are buzzwords, but, you know, but you know, using 'em in, in, in the proper fashion, right? >>They, they can, you know, reduce that footprint, save a bunch of money, right? And, and, and drive that cost savings and then help scale their business. Cuz you have all these different vendors and what security is typically in the digital footprint is the slowdown, right? We, we've typically been the bottleneck in the past. And what we're seeing with, with, with what, you know, we've been very focused on is helping our clients scale their security footprints and their infrastructure and, you know, through automation orchestration, I i, I always say some folks do it your mess for less with labor arbitrage and bodies, but they're not enough security people in the world to do this. And so we're very focused on automation and orchestration and driving that into, into the market. >>Yeah. So you don't want to be in the business of, of filling those holes with labor. >>Exactly. You >>Want to actually get paid for outcomes. >>A hundred percent. And everything we've done is we've tried to simplify things not only for, you know, big Accenture, but even for our clients so that, you know, we can be focused on business outcomes, not necessarily technology outcomes. Cuz doing technology for the sake of technology. Is that unintended consequence that you described earlier, >>Speaking of transformation and outcomes I should say, what are you hearing most from CIOs and CISOs in terms of what they need now to be able to transform, to deliver the business outcomes so that they can become secure data companies regardless of industry? Yep. >>I think the, the biggest thing we're seeing right now is the need to, you know, leverage true automation and orchestration. We have to break the headcount model. There's not enough security professionals in the world to do, you know, to solve the world's problems. In order to scale that, you know, it's one of the reasons we're, you know, partnering with Palo Alto is because of, you know, the capabilities and the investments they've made in innovation to help drive that automation and orchestration through, you know, numerous capabilities from stock transformation to to to sassy cloud security, et cetera. But our clients need scale. They need to be able to go fast and net pace and they need to, they need to do it with confidence securely. And that, that's one of the big focuses. But the other focus is, is we're starting to see a need to, you know, vendor consolidation in the market. You've seen the acquisitions, I'm sure you've talked to people in over the last couple days. You know, there's, there's a, a tremendous amount of consolidation going around. And what our clients, you know, are asking for is, Hey, I need to reduce the number of vendors I interact with. I need to simplify my infrastructure, I need to focus on automation and, and orchestration from that perspective, >>What's happening with multi-cloud? What are you hearing from from customers? You know, we hear a lot of the, the, the conversations about, oh it's, you know, it's, and I agree by the way, multi-cloud is kind of a symptom of multi-vendor, you know, Chuck Whittens thing about multi-cloud by default versus design, you know, it's good, good line and I think rings true, but, but what a customer's telling you in terms of the real challenges generally and then specifically around security. >>I think it's, you know, each cloud service product has their own security capabilities and security models and, and, and being able to train the people to be able to manage those different models. I think that's where, you know, tools like, you know, Prisma Cloud for instance come in and help clients be able to manage the security and compliance of those infrastructures in, in a way to do that. And then to be able to manage applications security consistently, right? It's not just the cloud itself, but it's actually the applications that may, you know, cross, you know, be for, for resiliency but you know, be in, you know, multi-cloud, you know, multiple clouds and being able to make sure you have consistent security across those. And I think, you know, one of the things that it's permeated is, is just the, with data and identity and, and you know, cloud infrastructure and tolerance management, it's been a big problem cuz it's like the wild, wild west. I always look, when I look at identity and the cloud and how it's done, it, it looks like 1995 identity. It's, it's, it's ridiculously backwards. And so, you know, we've seen things like, you know, keem that have come into play to help manage those relationships and, and simplify it across multiple clouds consistently, if that makes sense. >>Yep. >>You, you mentioned Prisma Cloud most recently Accenture and Palo Alto developed the Secure Cloud Express. Correct. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that is and what outcomes is it gonna enable? Yeah, >>So great question and we're pretty excited about this cuz what we did with that was we manage cloud, you know, our cloud environments for numerous customers. So we've developed hundreds of policies that, you know, we implemented in Prisma Cloud to manage, you know, multiple clients, our internal infrastructure. And what we did was we said, well, most of our clients have to build those from scratch. So what we said is we will come in, in the best of week of time and come in and, and do a data-driven exercise to show our clients, you know, where where they sit from a, from a security perspective as it relates leveraging Prisma cloud and, and those policies that we've created. And what, what that has led to is another step, which is where we're focused on auto remediation. So, you know, when you, when you get, when you get the findings, then what do you do with them, right? If you have hundreds or thousands in some cases we've had clients with 1100 findings and they just sit there and they go, whoa, you know, so to speak. And so what we've done is we try to take those highest, most frequent findings and build securities code to auto remediate those for clients so they can choose to implement that and work down those, you know, findings very quickly, which helps, you know, drive more value out of, out of their prisma cloud >>Purchases. Accenture obviously has deep industry expertise around the globe. What are you seeing in terms of industries actually? So as they digitize not just their IT transformation but a business transformation, there are starting to see companies, financial services in particular bring their business to their cloud, sify their business. And specifically I'm interested in what's happening at the edge with operations technology. We just talked about healthcare and and medical devices. What's happening there? How connected or disconnected is that to the rest of the estate, the multi-cloud on-prem, et cetera? I >>Mean, I think OT is, is fairly disconnected, right? Sure. From, from that perspective, obviously, but I, I, I think what we're starting to see is an uptick, you know, on, I think secure edge and Sassy will come to OT cause it's a better way. Because what happens is if someone, you know, gets into the network, they can traverse it, right? And if they can apply those zero trust principles to ot, which is you're talking to people that have been, you know, wearing hard hats Yeah. And engineers, that's a big shift for them. And so, but I think that you'll start to see that play more prevalence, you know, with the industries like, you know, financial services, we're seeing a huge uptick in cloud adoption, right? They were, they were slow to do it, but now they're, they're going at pace and faster than most, right? Yeah, sure. And I think, you know, healthcare is a, is another big one where we've seen a lot of migration and a lot of need for multi-cloud. Cuz you know, some, they may be running their analytics on, you know, Google and, and their workloads on Azure, right? Or aws. And so you're starting to see a lot of people leveraging the best of what each cloud provider does well >>From that. And, and just an aside on that Palo Alto survey, we saw construction was one of the hardest hit industries. Yeah. Which I, I was like, what? And then of course it's because they're not really focused on security. They're focused on building stuff. No, >>It's really interesting. We're working with a large builder, I can't say the name, but one of the things that they're looking to do is, you know, they're moving to the cloud and they're building the capability to manage some of the, you know, largest skyscrapers in the world, but also manage the OT sensors and also do selling that creating another business, not only just managing those buildings, but managing other people's buildings for them and ha and selling security as a service for that because they built that capability around their devices and, and, and switches, hvac, et cetera. Do, >>Do you think that because I mean, you know, the operations technology, they're engineers and they're hardcore, like, don't touch my stuff. Exactly. And so do you feel like as, I mean I know that business has kind of done a reach around everything, you know, be becoming connected, but do you feel like they're gonna be more on top of it then, then, then sort of the, the broad commercial market has been? Or is it gonna be wild West all over again? >>My hope is that, you know, us as gsi, you know, my fellow GSIs, that we will help our clients make the better decisions this time around and, and not go to the wild, wild west. And you know, we see a lot of it in manufacturing, you know, if you saw, you know, with the, you know, the invasion Ukraine, you know, one of the big groups that was hit was manufacturing, right? There was factory shut down all over the world, you know, and, and so, you know, and that is an OT environment, but I, you know, what we've seen is them are, you know, those clients take more serious steps to protect those environments cuz they're on, you know, windows 10 servers running, you know, large machines. So we're starting to see a lot more care and feeding in into those environments as well. >>Can I ask you a question about the conversations that you're having? That survey that Dave mentioned, it's was released yesterday. There's a board behind us, what's next in cyber? That was the survey and amazing data that came from it. Like 96% of organizations have been hit by at least one attack in the last year. They were surprised that the number was that high, but we know that no industry, no company is safe. But one of the things that the survey found that, that surprised me was that we always say, oh, security is a board level conversation. We know that to some degree. But what they found was lack of alignment between the board and the executive level. In your Accenture's relationships, I know you guys have deep relationships across organizations and their boards. Can you help bring the board together with the executives and, and really not just talk about cybersecurity, but really develop a cybersecurity transformation strategy that actually delivers resilience? >>Yeah, no ab absolutely. And we've, we, we actually took a step back and, and reorganized our business this last year. And one of those areas that we focused on was within strategy and the C-suite agenda, right? And we actually published looking at gia, it was either the CEO handbook, I think it's what we called it, but they helped them and board be able to, you know, drive more meaningful conversations that relates to risk and and whatnot. And so we're very focused on that right now. And it's, we need to up-level our conversations within the organization. Cause even the buyers in these large, you know, two years ago was mainly the cso, now we're dealing with the cio, CTOs, cfo because these are, you know, meaningful business conversations, right? That are driving business outcomes and security needs to be a business enabler, not, not a a, a bottleneck >>Is the chief data officer starting to emerge as, as we see, you know, Nikesh said yesterday in his keynote and we talked about it with him when he was here, security is a data problem. >>Yep. It is. It's a huge data problem. And we're starting to, you know, I think we've talked a lot about zero trust, but zero trust data is, is a, is a significant problem, right? Because that you talk about the wild, wild west is we see clients that have people that have in, you know, they, they have access to, you know, what we call dev development environment data, right? But then you find out that they can hop four levels over into production data and this been exposed to, you know, the wrong people, you know, not focused on that least privileged aspect. I think data's a real problem, you know, per na kesha's statement in the cloud. It's something that really needs to be addressed. And I think we're starting to see a lot of innovation around that area. Cuz what typical data security has always been, I have all these problems, it creates, I call it noise, right? I got thousands of findings and then just, you know, need just sit there and they go, what do I do? Right? It's too much. And so I think there, there's gonna be more intelligence around that and more, you know, what I call auto remediation, right? Being able to remediate those findings quickly from from that >>Perspective. I've been watching this board behind us. Yeah. It's this what's next in cyber. And people come in and they write, it's just been growing, you know, all week and somebody just wrote sock transformation. Yeah. We were just sort of talking about earlier what, what, in your estimation, what percent of organizations that you target. I understand that you're not going after the, you know, mom and pop organizations, but what percent of that, you know, fat middle and the tip of the pyramid, that a euro, that's your sweet spot. What percent of those organizations don't have a sock? >>I mean, most every organization has a sock. You know, I talked to, you know, CISOs of large financial service organization, they said, do we even need a sock anymore? It could be a virtual sock so to speak, but I think, you know, am was SOC transformation. I think we could potentially head to something like that. But you know, but what's really been strange is there's been, you know, what we call soar, right? Security, you know, orchestration, automation, whatever. And what another, >>Another acronym, their >>Acronym that I security that I might brain is >>Hold apologize. >>But you know, they've, people have never really driven the value out of it because they build these automation playbooks and, and for one company to do it and build 20 of 'em or 30 of 'em to ha it doesn't pay off in the long run. And what we're starting to see is people, you know, bring to the table more crowdsource these capabilities so that they can scale those sock transformations. Cause it's really about, you know, orchestration and automation. That's where, you know, nirvana comes in because it's not about people with headsets on looking at, you know, 20 screens. It's not helpful, right? The humans, we make mistakes. And so if we can automate as much of that as possible, get rid of the false positives, leverage AI and and ML to do that. And I think we're starting to see, you know, what I would call more advanced AI and ml. I think in the early days in security, AI and ML was very nascent and, and, and now you're starting to see, you know, more powerful concepts come in better learning, better outcomes out of that. >>Well, it was a lot of modeling in the cloud still is, but it's increasingly going toward real time inference and that's, you know, game changing. >>Agreed. >>Last question for you. What's are some of the things that are next on the plate for Accenture and Palo Networks? What's next up? >>I think, you know, we're very focused on, on Sassy right now in, in the market. And I think we think that is, you know, I think both of us think that's the next big wave, right? Because I think what we learned out of, you know, these last two and a half, three years is that these concepts work, but they can actually scale out to drive significant cost savings. I mean, if you look at Accenture, you know, we don't have a a network backbone anymore. We're pure cloud wan, right? We're leveraging the internet for that. And I think that and what we're trying to do with Palo Alto and driving, you know, cloud WAN and Sassy as a service, I think will be super, super meaningful. And, and, and, and >>Well that's interesting. That has implications for a number of companies out >>There. Yeah. Well I think, you know, it's obviously the, you know, it, it's a, it is a big implication for a lot of, a lot of, you know, our customers even, right? Yeah. And so we have to be very careful and thoughtful about how we work to make that happen over time. >>Right. A lot of opportunity. Rex, thank you so much for joining us on the program and really dissecting what Accenture and Palo Alto are doing, all the value in it for organizations across industries. We appreciate your insights. Yep. >>Thank you >>For Rex Dexon and Dave Valante. I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching the Cubes stick around. Dave and I will be right back with our next guest. This is the Cube, the leader in live, emerging and enterprise tech coverage.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Partner Awards brought to you by Amazon web services. >> Hi, and welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and we're here at the AWS Public Sector. Their Partner Awards, really enjoying this. We get to talk to some of the diverse ecosystem as well as they've all brought on their customers, some really phenomenal case studies. Happy to welcome to the program two first time guests. First of all, we have Jared Bell, he's the Chief Engineer of self response, operational readiness at T-Rex Solutions and T-Rex is the award winner for the most customer obsessed mission-based in Fed Civ. So Jared, congratulations to you and the T-Rex team and also joining him, his customer Michael Thieme, he's the Assistant Director for the Decennial Census Program systems and contracts for the US Census Bureau, thank you so much both for joining us. >> Good to be here. >> All right, Jared, if we could start with you, as I said, you're an award winner, you sit in the Fed Civ space, you've brought us to the Census Bureau, which most people understand the importance of that government program coming up on that, you know, every 10 year we've been hearing, you know, TV and radio ads talking about it, but Jared, if you could just give us a thumbnail of T-Rex and what you do in the AWS ecosystem. >> So yeah again, my name's Jared Bell and I work for T-Rex Solutions. T-Rex is a mid tier IT federal contracting company in Southern Maryland, recently graduated from hubs on status, and so T-Rex really focuses on four key areas, infrastructure in Cloud modernization, cybersecurity, and active cyber defense, big data management and analytics, and then overall enterprise system integration. And so we've been, you know, AWS partner for quite some time now and with decennial, you know, we got to really exercise a lot of the bells and whistles that are out there and really put it all to the test. >> All right, well, Michael, you know, so many people in IT, we talk about the peaks and valleys that we have, not too many companies in our organization say, well, we know exactly, you know, that 10 year spike of activity that we're going to have, I know there's lots of work that goes on beyond that, but it tells a little bit , your role inside the Census Bureau and what's under your purview. >> Yes, the Census Bureau, is actually does hundreds of surveys every year, but the decennial census is our sort of our main flagship activity. And I am the Assistant Director under our Associate Director for the IT and for the contracts for the decennial census. >> Wonderful and if you could tell us a little bit the project that you're working on, that eventually pulled T-Rex in. >> Sure. This is the 2020 census and the challenge of the 2020 census is we've done the census since 1790 in the United States. It's a pillar, a foundation of our democracy, and this was the most technologically advanced census we've ever done. Actually up until 2020, we have done our censuses mostly by pen, paper, and pencil. And this is a census where we opened up the internet for people to respond from home. We can have people respond on the phone, people can respond with an iPhone or an Android device. We tried to make it as easy as possible and as secure as possible for people to respond to the census where they were and we wanted to meet the respondent where they were. >> All right. So Jared, I'd love you to chime in here 'cause I'm here and talking about, you know, the technology adoption, you know, how much was already in plans there, where did T-Rex intersect with this census activity? >> Yeah. So, you know, census deserves a lot of credit for their kind of innovative approach with this technical integrator contract, which T-Rex was fortunate enough to win. When we came in, you know, we were just wrapping up the 2018 test. we really only had 18 months to go from start to, you know, a live operational tests to prepare for 2020. And it was really exciting to be brought in on such a large mission critical project and this is one of the largest federal IT products in the Cloud to date. And so, you know, when we came in, we had to really, you know, bring together a whole lot of solutions. I mean, the internet self response, which is what we're going to to talk about today was one of the major components. But we really had a lot of other activities that we had to engage in. You know, we had to design and prepare an IT solution to support 260 field offices, 16,000 field staff, 400,000 mobile devices and users that were going to go out and knock on doors for a numeration. So it was real6ly a big effort that we were honored to be a part of, you know, and on top of that, T-Rex actually brought to the table, a lot of its past experience with cybersecurity and active cyber defense, also, you know, because of the importance of all this data, you know, we had the role in security all throughout, and I think T-Rex was prepared for that and did a great job. And then, you know, overall I think that, not necessarily directly to your question, but I think, y6ou know, one of the things that we were able to do to make ourselves successful and to really engage with the census Bureau and be effective with our stakeholders was that we really build a culture of decennial within the technical integrator, you know, we had brown bags and working sessions to really teach the team the importance of the decennial, you know, not just as a career move, but also as a important activity for our country. And so I think that that really helped the team, you know, internalize that mission and really drove kind of our dedication to the census mission and really made us effective and again, a lot of the T-Rex leadership had a lot of experience there from past decennials and so they really brought that mindset to the team and I think it really paid off. >> Michael, if you could bring us inside a little a bit the project, you know, 18 months, obviously you have a specific deadline you need to hit, for that help us understand kind of the architectural considerations that you had there, any concerns that you had and I have to imagine that just the global activities, the impacts of COVID-19 has impacted some of the end stage, if you will, activities here in 2020. >> Absolutely. Yeah. The decennial census is, I believe a very unique IT problem. We have essentially 10 months out of the decade that we have to scale up to gigantic and then scale back down to run the rest of the Census Bureau's activities. But our project, you know, every year ending in zero, April 1st is census day. Now April 1st continued to be census day in 2020, but we also had COVID essentially taking over virtually everything in this country and in fact in the world. So, the way that we set up to do the census with the Cloud and with the IT approach and modernization that we took, actually, frankly, very luckily enabled us to kind of get through this whole thing. Now, we haven't had, Jared discussed a little bit the fact that we're here to talk about our internet self response, we haven't had one second of downtime for our response. We've taken 77 million. I think even more than 78 million responses from households, out of the 140 million households in the United States, we've gotten 77 million people to respond on our internet site without one second of downtime, a good user experience, a good supportability, but the project has always been the same. It's just this time, we're actually doing it with much more technology and hopefully the way that the Cloud has supported us will prove to be really effective for the COVID-19 situation. Because we've had changes in our plans, difference in timeframes, we are actually not even going into the field, or we're just starting to go into the field these next few weeks where we would have almost been coming out of the field at this time. So that flexibility, that expandability, that elasticity, that being in the Cloud gives all of our IT capabilities was really valuable this time. >> Well, Jared, I'm wondering if you can comment on that. All of the things that Michael just said, you know, seem like, you know, they are just the spotlight pieces that I looked at Cloud for. You know, being able to scale on demand, being able to use what I need when I need it, and then dial things down when I don't, and especially, you know, I don't want to have to, you know, I want to limit how much people actually need to get involved. So help understand a little bit, you know, what AWS services underneath, we're supporting this and anything else around the Cloud deployment. >> Sure, yeah. Michael is spot on. I mean, the cloud is tailor made for our operation and activity here. You know, I think all told, we use over 30 of the AWS FedRAMP solutions in standing up our environment across all those 52 system of systems that we were working with. You know, just to name a few, I mean, internet self response alone, you're relying heavily on auto scaling groups, elastic load balancers, you know, we relied a lot on Lambda Functions, DynamoDB. We're one of the first adopters through DynamoDB global tables, which we use for a session persistence across regions. And then on top of that, you know, the data was all flowing down into RDS databases and then from there to, you know, the census data Lake, which was built on EMR and Elasticsearch capabilities, and that's just to name a couple. I mean, you know, we had, we ran the gamut of AWS services to make all this work and they really helped us accelerate. And as Michael said, you know, we stood this up expecting to be working together in a war room, watching everything hand in hand, and because of the way we, were able to architect it in partnership with AWS, we all had to go out and stay at home, you know, the infrastructure remain rock solid. We can have to worry about, you know, being hands on with the equipment and, you know, again, the ability to automate and integrate with those solutions Cloud formation and things like that really let us keep a small agile team of, you know, DevSecOps there to handle the deployments. And we were doing full scale deployments with, you know, one or two people in the middle of the night without any problems. So it really streamlined things for us and helped us keep a tight natural, sure. >> Michael, I'm curious about what kind of training your team need to go through to take advantage of this solution. So from bringing it up to the ripple effect, as you said, you're only now starting to look at who would go into the field who uses devices and the like, so help us understand really the human aspect of undergoing this technology. >> Sure. Now, the census always has to ramp up this sort of immediate workforce. We hire, we actually process over 3 million people through, I think, 3.9 million people applied to work for the Census Bureau. And each decade we have to come up with a training program and actually training sites all over the country and the IT to support those. Now, again, modernization for the 2020 census, didn't only involve the things like our internet self response, it also involves our training. We have all online training now, we used to have what we called verbatim training, where we had individual teachers all over the country in places like libraries, essentially reading text exactly the same way to exactly over and over again to our, to the people that we trained. But now it's all electronic, it allows us to, and this goes to the COVID situation as well, it allows us to bring only three people in at a time to do training. Essentially get them started with our device that we have them use when they're knocking on doors and then go home and do the training, and then come back to work with us all with a minimal contact, human contact, sort of a model. And that, even though we designed it differently, the way that we set the technology of this time allowed us to change that design very quickly, get people trained, not essentially stop the census. We essentially had to slow it down because we weren't sure exactly when it was going to be safe to go knocking on door to door, but we were able to do the training and all of that worked and continues to work phenomenally. >> Wonderful. Jared, I wonder if you've got any lessons learned from working with the census group that might be applicable to kind of, the broader customers out there? >> Oh, sure. Well, working with the census, you know, it was really a great group to work with. I mean, one of the few groups I worked with who have such a clear vision and understanding of what they want their final outcome to be, I think again, you know, for us the internalization of the decennial mission, right? It's so big, it's so important. I think that because we adopted it early on we felt that we were true partners with census, we had a lot of credibility with our counterparts and I think that they understood that we were in it with them together and that was really important. I would also say that, you know, because we're talking about the go Cloud solutions that we worked, you know, we also engage heavily with the AWS engineering group and in partnership with them, you know, we relied on the infrastructure event management services they offer and was able to give us a lot of great insight into our architecture and our systems and monitoring to really make us feel like we were ready for the big show when the time came. So, you know, I think for me, another lesson learned there was that, you know, the Cloud providers like AWS, they're not just a vendor, they're a partner and I think that now going forward, we'll continue to engage with those partners early and often. >> Michael the question I have for you is, you know, what would you say to your peers? What lessons did you have learned and how much of what you've done for the census, do you think it will be applicable to all those other surveys that you do in between the big 10 year surveys? >> All right. I think we have actually set a good milestone for the rest of the Census Bureau, that the modernization that the 2020 census has allowed since it is our flagship really is something that we hope we can continue through the decade and into the next census, as a matter of fact. But I think one of the big lessons learned I wanted to talk about was we have always struggled with disaster recovery. And one of the things that having the Cloud and our partners in the Cloud has helped us do is essentially take advantage of the resilience of the Cloud. So there are data centers all over the country. If ever had a downtime somewhere, we knew that we were going to be able to stay up. For the decennial census, we've never had the budget to pay for a persistent disaster recovery. And the Cloud essentially gives us that kind of capability. Jared talked a lot about security. I think we have taken our security posture to a whole different level, something that allowed us to essentially, as I said before, keep our internet self response free of hacks and breaches through this whole process and through a much longer process than we even intended to keep it open. So, there's a lot here that I think we want to bring into the next decade, a lot that we want to continue, and we want the census to essentially stay as modern as it has become for 2020. >> Well, I will tell you personally Michael, I did take the census online, it was really easy to do, and I'll definitely recommend if they haven't already, everybody listening out there so important that you participate in the census so that they have complete data. So, Michael, Jared, thank you so much. Jared, congratulations to your team for winning the award and you know, such a great customer. Michael, thank you so much for what you and your team are doing. We Appreciate all that's being done, especially in these challenging times. >> Thank you and thanks for doing the census. >> All right and stay tuned for more coverage of the AWS public sector partner award I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners! (electronic music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and my co-host John Troyer, you're watching SiliconANGLES' production of theCUBE here at VMworld 2017 in Las Vegas. Happy to welcome to the program two first-time guests, but from a company we've talked to many times. Rex Backman and Rob Young, both with Red Hat. Rex is the senior principal marketing manager and Rob is the senior manager of Red Hat product management, gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us, we're happy to be here! >> So sorry, tripping over, sometimes, titles and things like that, just like acronyms go out there, sometimes. So you know, I go back, I started working with Red Hat before Red Hat Advanced Server came out, which became Red Hat Enterprise Server, then, when we talk about virtualization, it used to be RHEV, R-H-E-V, and now it's RHV! >> Yup, making it simpler! >> Sometimes the people stay in the same place and, you know, the badges change, other times things change a lot. So why don't we start with Rob, tell us a bit about how long you've been at Red Hat, your role there? >> So I've been with Red Hat now for two years, almost to the date. I come from an open source pedigree, so I worked with companies like MySQL, MongoDB, to develop not only the open source model but a community around those products, and a commercialized version that people trust in running their data centers. >> Alright, and Rex, yourself? >> I'm fairly new to Red Hat, joined about three months ago. Virtualization background, really, from the world of Microsoft. So happy to be at Red Hat, we've got a strong offering with RHEV, and we just want to help get people more educated on it and the opportunities we have to help solve their problems. >> Alright, it's always an interesting dynamic. You talk, you know, virtualization, we spent a decade, you know, VMware's ascendancy and the threat of Microsoft, you know, KVM and RHEV and everything were going to be there. There's a nice Red Hat booth on the show floor. Always, customers have had Linux sitting as guests in there and lots of those, I'm sure you probably have stats for me as to how much of that's been Red Hat over the years, but tell us about the relationship, you know, VMware, Red Hat, virtualization? >> So we see the relationship with VMware and other, you know, companies and partners within our ecosystem as very positive. If you look at the workloads that are running on VMware primarily, a lot of those are Red Hat Enterprise Linux, applications that are running on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, so we see it as a very positive relationship. And moving ahead, we see a challenge in maintaining a virtualization footprint within VMware, within the market, because of the evolution of the market. And we see that virtualization is becoming more of a commodity-based feature and the challenges that it poses to partners like VMware, going forward, to evolve along with that model in the market. >> Well, if virtualization is a commodity, and it's becoming a commodity, what's the Red Hat approach with KVM et al in terms of, it is, parts of it are commodity, but certainly, the stack and the system it plugs into is not. >> Yeah. >> I would say, it's also very foundational. Virtualization is everywhere, and I think the value that Red Hat brings to it is, you know, the capabilities we have in our team, the capabilities we derive from the open source model. And then virtualization with RHEV, bundled in with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, it's foundational. And then if you bring in other aspects of the Red Hat stack, around manageability, cloud, things of that nature, I think we have a strong offering, a good offering that people can choose from. And I think that's really important for us, is our customers have choice. And us, we differentiate ourselves on the open source model, primarily. >> Rob, it keeps becoming a more and more complex world. We've been watching, for years, it was the pull of cloud against the data center, now we're even seeing Edge pulling at the cloud. But let's go back to the data center. What's Red Hat's viewpoints, what are you hearing from customers, what do they need in the data center, and how are they viewing that these days? >> So what we see in the modern data center, one, the workloads that we see around Mode One applications or Legacy applications, that footprint is not going away. It's going to continue to have a bare metal footprint as well as a virtualized and private cloud. So what we're doing, and what our customers are asking us for, is a transition from pure virtualization or bare metal to virtualization to hybrid cloud. And what we're doing now, with our engineering efforts, not only upstream but also from a proprietary and configuration standpoint, all open source by the way, is we are giving customers the option to standardize on that virtualization platform built on KVM that shares components with hybrid cloud technologies from Mode Two. So what we see, from our customers, is that they're maintaining a Mode One, but buying and planning for Mode Two. And that's how we see the on-premise data center market heading at this point. >> Okay, I'd like you to unpack that for our audience. Because, big discussion this week is, public cloud, yeah sure, it has virtualization, but it's not VMware. So now we've got this one option, VMware and AWS starting to roll out, are you saying that my data center can really be compatible with the public clouds and, you know, the Red Hat pieces on both sides, or is it native to what AWS and Google are doing? How does that dynamic work? >> So the way we're approaching it is, we look at it, not only as a software solution, but also as a paradigm shift in more openness, APIs, things are more generic. So if you want to plug into a common framework for management, as an example, or deployment, you can easily do that via the open APIs that are available in the open source community. So as an example, we provide a management solution called Cloud Forms. And with that platform, it's part of the Red Hat stack and solution, we allow customers to manage not only the virtualized environment but also, their hybrid or private clouds, but also AWS as well. So if they've got instances running on AWS, they can manage it through one pane of glass. And this is our strategy going forward, but it's not tomorrow, this is happening today with our Red Hat Stack platform. >> Rex, you've got a background in networking, networking front and center, and networking and security even more than ever, that I've seen at VMworld. How does that fit into Red Hat's whole story? >> You know, if you look at the world of virtualization, obviously, we've gone from the story of server virtualization, network virtualization, storage virtualization, and those are the antes into the game now, and I think, Red Hat, with what we provide, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, obviously the foundation started with, you know, the knowledge that our R&D team brings from their open source background around RHEV and server virtualization. But also, now, network virtualization capabilities, and also, what Red Hat has around storage. So I think we cover those three antes into the game of virtualization, and then, you know, it adds to the equation Rob was talking about, which is the whole Red Hat Stack, which I think is a good story, and a choice for our customers. >> I think, actually, 2017 is actually a really interesting year for virtualization. We're at an interesting era, right? 10 years ago you had some market dominance, you're looking at Microsoft and VMware like we talked about, we had Zen and KVM came up, and they were a little scary for people, right? They were developing, they weren't as mature of a stack. I do think, now, that the average admin in an average, you know, IT estate, is actually dealing with the fact that, oh, I could actually manage multiple hypervisors, look at a mixed estate, it's not as scary anymore, the technology is more mature, more manageable. Can you talk a little bit about that scenario of a mixed estate? Like, if you have, part of your data center is running VMware, what kinds of use cases and what kinds of management scenarios would you, as you start to add Red Hat virtualization to the mix? >> So the dynamic that we see and play right now is, there's a huge install-base on VMware. And a lot of customers, a lot of clients, a lot of partners are looking at that relationship now and deciding if they should invest elsewhere in other solutions. So what we provide is the ability to manage those environments, the clients for hyper-V, for VMware, for Red Hat, all within one pane of glass. But it allows customers who want the choice to manage that heterogeneous environment built on multiple hypervisors, but it allows them to evaluate if, maybe, the Red Hat solution is better for them. And if we can help them with V to V migrations as well, workload migration, mobility, I think that's the perfect scenario for Red Hat, an open source company, and choice. >> And I think some of the customers, you know, public case studies that we've promoted, some of the attributes that they've been looking at that shifted them over towards the Red Had side was performance, you know, was very important. Scalability was very important. So I think, it depends, customer to customer. >> I was actually wondering about, so do we see re-platforming as people are re-architecting? Are these green field opportunities? I imagine, again, it's all across the board. But have you seen any particularly common patterns of people standing up, maybe a new business-critical app on a new platform, maybe they're re-architecting it to be a little bit more cloud-native, any particular directions like that? >> I think, some of the things I've seen recently is an enterprise IT organization has decided to go down an open source path for their world. And then that kind of is a strong point for us. Mountain Health is a company that there's some news on, from last week, is an example of that. British Airways is another customer like that. And, you know, as Rob said. It's large companies, big brands, down to commercial companies as well, or governments, or education. So I think it could be performance, it could be open source, open source is definitely one of the drivers though. >> Yeah, and what we're seeing there with open source is, the more trust is built in open source, the more enterprise adoption, and the cost-effectiveness of working with a development team that's worldwide, a QE team that's worldwide, really helps to build the stability of the products that companies like Red Hat build subscription models around. So there's no vendor lock-in, as well, for proprietary licensing models. And we find that many customers are very open to that discussion, as opposed to, you know, the alternatives. >> One of the other discussions we've been having at VMworld for the last couple years is this whole containers discussion. VM versus containers, is it containers inside VMs, Red Hat Summit, there was huge discussion, there was the super popular t-shirt, on one side it said, Linux is containers, and on the other side it said, Containers are Linux. So where do you see that discussion? What do you think about how VMware's been looking at things? There was a big announcement about VMware and, through the pivotal activity, kind of embracing Kubernetes, Red Hat's, I'm sure, saying, welcome to the party, right? (laughing) >> So there's an interesting dynamic with containers, because containers, Kubernetes, you know, you name the project, is purely an open source play. And if you look at the projects, the contributors, most of this is going to be built on an open source model. So proprietary software companies, like VMware, are going to be challenged to adapt and evolve how they develop, how they contribute, their presence within those communities. Now, Red Hat is uniquely positioned in that our model has been, for the last 25 years, that we're purely open source. Everything we do is out in the community. And it lends itself very naturally, not only the way we've done commercialization of Linux, but we're doing that now with containers as well. And if you look at the dynamic in the market, a lot of people believe that there's VM or containers, and this is really a symbiotic or complimentary relationship. 85% of the workloads for containers runs within a virtualized environment, and containers and virtualization fill gaps for each other that's just a natural complement, and just because Red Hat is already comfortable operating in the open source environment in this way, we think we're just in a very good position to lead in both areas. >> You mentioned open source commercialization. And Jim Whitehurst, the CO of Red Hat, has been on theCUBE, Stu and I talked with him at the last Open Stack Summit. I was super impressed by his insight and grasp into the economics of open source and how Red Hat has been able to build a model like that. Can you talk at all about data centers, or IT spend in general, and capex, opex, where it's going in a more open source driven world? Where do you put your money then? >> So do you want to answer? (laughs) >> I'll take a stab at it. >> Can you now invest your money, that's a little better. >> Yeah, I think it's really interesting. And I'm going to answer this question from the perspective of a three-month Red Hat employee, but with, you know, a lot of experience in the industry with proprietary companies, if you will. I think the value, the commercialization of what Red Hat has done, there's the upstream aspects of open source and the programs available there. And then there's the downstream commercialization of what Red Hat has done, which is wrapping the value of a Red Hat subscription around that open source project. And I think what we see in our customers in terms of budget spend, you know, more on the opex side than the capex side, in our case, is looking at that price point. Because some of our customers, well, many of our customers, if not all of our customers, there is a price sensitivity. I think a lot of our customers right now, maybe this might be a crazy thing to say, may not be as price-sensitive as they used to be. Now it's more about innovation, agility, speed to market. But still, the economics is important. And I think the value Red Hat provides and the uniqueness in the model that Jim and his crew cracked early on to start Red Hat, is the ability to provide that Red Hat subscription at value for open source, and, what we see is that, most of the time, in cases, it's an attractive price point and that's how we win customers. So I think, long-winded answer to your question is, I think there's a strong future. You see more and more companies adopting open source in their programs. I think Red Hat is the leader of that and in good shape! >> Rob, why don't you just give us the final word. Conversations you're having at the show, how are people here in the VMware community embracing, is it an open source discussion, is it the innovation, and kind of, the new features, what's bringing them by to talk to Red Hat? >> I think it's a mixture. So what we're seeing is a lot of interest in Red Hat Solutions, the Red Hat Stack. And I think customers are now looking at Red Hat as a good enough alternative to more pricey alternatives, or more pricey options. And if you look at what we've done from a strategic standpoint is, much like we've done with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, we are now using Enterprise Linux as a foundational support pillar, so to speak, for the Red Hat Stack. If you look at the APIs that we generated, a lot of the interest I'm getting, the question I'm getting not only from customers, but from folks out on the show floor, other vendors, is, what's your API look like? Can I learn more about it? And to me, that's the leading edge of a wave of, maybe that partner's looking a little more red (laughs) in the days to come. So, just, my opinion. >> Absolutely, I know John Troyer and I have been talking for a few years now, that API economy, something that's been coming into this world, and that intersection between what all the Linux admins have known for a long time as to their operational model matches a lot of what we're seeing in the cloud. So Rob Young, Rex Backman, really appreciate you joining us. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from VMworld 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

>>Hi, this is Dave Volonte. We're winding down Day two of the Cubes coverage of Vim on 2022. We're here at the area in Las Vegas. Myself and Dave Nicholson had been going for two days. Everybody's excited about the VM on party tonight. It's It's always epic, and, uh, it's a great show in terms of its energy. Danny Allen is here. He's cto of in his back. He gave the keynote this morning. I say, Danny, you know, you look pretty good up there with two hours of sleep. I >>had three. >>Look, don't look that good, but your energy was very high. And I got to tell you the story you told was amazing. It was one of the best keynotes I've ever seen. Even even the technology pieces were outstanding. But you weaving in that story was incredible. I'm hoping that people will go back and and watch it. We probably don't have time to go into it, but wow. Um, can you give us the the one minute version of that >>long story? >>Sure. Yeah. I read a book back in 2013 about a ship that sank off Portsmouth, Maine, and I >>thought, I'm gonna go find that >>ship. And so it's a long, >>complicated process. Five >>years in the making. But we used data, and the data that found the ship was actually from 15 years earlier. >>And in 20 >>18, we found the bow of the ship. We found the stern of the ship, but what we were really trying to answer was torpedoed. Or did the boilers explode? Because >>the navy said the boilers exploded >>and two survivors said, No, it was torpedoed or there was a German U boat there. >>And so >>our goal was fine. The ship find the boiler. >>So in 20 >>19, Sorry, Uh, it was 2018. We found the bow and the stern. And then in 2019, we found both boilers perfectly intact. And in fact, the rear end of that torpedo wasn't much left >>of it, of course, but >>data found that wreck. And so it, um, it exonerated essentially any implication that somebody screwed >>up in >>the boiler system and the survivors or the Children of the survivors obviously appreciated >>that. I'm sure. Yes, Several >>outcomes to it. So the >>chief engineer was one >>of the 13 survivors, >>and he lived with the weight of this for 75 years. 49 sailors dead because of myself. But I had the opportunity of meeting some of the Children of the victims and also attending ceremonies. The families of those victims received purple hearts because they were killed due to enemy action. And then you actually knew how to do this. I wasn't aware you had experience finding Rex. You've >>discovered several of >>them prior to this one. But >>the interesting connection >>the reason why this keynote was so powerful as we're a >>team, it's a data conference. >>You connected that to data because you you went out and bought a How do you say this? Magnanimous magnetometer. Magnetometer, Magnetometer. I don't know what that >>is. And a side >>scan Sonar, Right? I got that right. That was >>easy. But >>then you know what this stuff is. And then you >>built the model >>tensorflow. You took all the data and you found anomalies. And then you went right to that spot. Found the >>wreck with 12 >>£1000 of dynamite, >>which made your heart >>beat. But >>then you found >>the boilers. That's incredible. And >>but the point was, >>this is data >>uh, let's see, >>a lot of years after, >>right? >>Yeah. Two sets of data were used. One was the original set of side scan sonar >>data by the historian >>who discovered there was a U boat in the area that was 15 years old. >>And then we used, of >>course, the wind and weather and wave pattern data that was 75 years old to figure out where the boiler should be because they knew that the ship had continued to float for eight minutes. And so you had to go back and determine the models of where should the boilers >>be if it exploded and the boilers >>dropped out and it floated along >>for eight minutes and then sank? Where was >>that data? >>It was was a scanned was an electronic was a paper. How did you get that data? So the original side scan sonar data was just hard >>drive >>data by the historian. >>I wish I could say he used them to >>back it up. But I don't know that I can say that. But he still had >>the data. 15 years later, the >>weather and >>wind and wave data, That was all public information, and we actually used that extensively. We find other wrecks. A lot of wrecks off Boston Sunken World War Two. So we were We were used to that model of tracking what happened. Wow. So, yes, imagine if that data weren't available >>and it >>probably shouldn't have been right by all rights. So now fast forward to 2022. We've got Let's talk about just a cloud >>data. I think you said a >>couple of 100 >>petabytes in the >>cloud 2019. 500 in, Uh, >>no. Yeah. In >>20 2200 and 42. Petabytes in 20 2500 Petabytes last year. And we've already done the same as 2020. So >>240 petabytes >>in Q one. I expect >>this year to move an exhibit of >>data into the public cloud. >>Okay, so you got all that data. Who knows what's in there, right? And if it's not protected, who's going to know in 50 60 7100 years? Right. So that was your tie in? Yes. To the to the importance of data protection, which was just really, really well done. Congratulations. Honestly, one of the best keynotes I've ever seen keynotes often really boring, But you did a great job again on two hours. Sleep. So much to unpack here. The other thing that really is. I mean, we can talk about the demos. We can talk about the announcements. Um, so? Well, yeah, Let's see. Salesforce. Uh, data protection is now public. I almost spilled the beans yesterday in the cube. Caught myself the version 12. Obviously, you guys gave a great demo showing the island >>cloud with I think it >>was just four minutes. It was super fast. Recovery in four minutes of data loss was so glad you didn't say zero minutes because that would have been a live demos which, Okay, which I appreciate and also think is crazy. So some really cool demos, Um, and some really cool features. So I have so much impact, but the the insights that you can provide through them it's VM one, uh, was actually something that I hadn't heard you talk about extensively in the past. That maybe I just missed it. But I wonder if you could talk about that layer and why it's critical differentiator for Wien. It's >>the hidden gem >>within the Wien portfolio because it knows about absolutely >>everything. >>And what determines the actions >>that we take is the >>context in which >>data is surviving. So in the context of security, which we are showing, we look for CPU utilisation, memory utilisation, data change rate. If you encrypt all of the data in a file server, it's going to blow up overnight. And so we're leveraging heuristics in their reporting. But even more than that, one of the things in Wien one people don't realise we have this concept of the intelligent diagnostics. It's machine learning, which we drive on our end and we push out as packages intervene one. There's up to 200 signatures, but it helps our customers find issues before they become issues. Okay, so I want to get into because I often time times, don't geek out with you. And don't take advantage of your your technical knowledge. And you've you've triggered a couple of things, >>especially when the >>analysts call you said it again today that >>modern >>data protection has meaning to you. We talked a little bit about this yesterday, but back in >>the days of >>virtualisation, you shunned agents >>and took a different >>approach because you were going for what was then >>modern. Then you >>went to bare metal cloud hybrid >>cloud containers. Super Cloud. Using the analyst meeting. You didn't use the table. Come on, say Super Cloud and then we'll talk about the edge. So I would like to know specifically if we can go back to Virtualised >>because I didn't know >>this exactly how you guys >>defined modern >>back then >>and then. Let's take that to modern today. >>So what do you >>do back then? And then we'll get into cloud and sure, So if you go back to and being started, everyone who's using agents, you'd instal something in the operating system. It would take 10% 15% of your CPU because it was collecting all the data and sending it outside of the machine when we went through a virtual environment. If you put an agent inside that machine, what happens is you would have 100 operating systems all on the same >>server, consuming >>resources from that hyper visor. And so he said, there's a better way of capturing the data instead of capturing the data inside the operating system. And by the way, managing thousands of agents is no fun. So What we did is we captured a snapshot of the image at the hyper visor level. And then over time, we just leverage changed block >>tracking from the hyper >>visor to determine what >>had changed. And so that was modern. Because no more >>managing agents >>there was no impact >>on the operating system, >>and it was a far more >>efficient way to store >>data. You leverage CBT through the A P. Is that correct? Yeah. We used the VCR API >>for data protection. >>Okay, so I said this to Michael earlier. Fast forward to today. Your your your data protection competitors aren't as fat, dumb and happy as they used to be, so they can do things in containers, containers. And we talked about that. So now let's talk about Cloud. What's different about cloud data protection? What defines modern data protection? And where are the innovations that you're providing? >>Let me do one step in >>between those because one of the things that happened between hypervisors and Cloud was >>offline. The capture of the data >>to the storage system because >>even better than doing it >>at the hyper visor clusters >>do it on the storage >>array because that can capture the >>data instantly. Right? So as we go to the cloud, we want to do the same thing. Except we don't have access to either the hyper visor or the storage system. But what they do provide is an API. So we can use the API to capture all of the blocks, all of the data, all of the changes on that particular operating system. Now, here's where we've kind of gone full circle on a hyper >>visor. You can use the V >>sphere agent to reach into the operating system to do >>things like application consistency. What we've done modern data protection is create specific cloud agents that say Forget >>about the block changes. Make sure that I have application consistency inside that cloud operating >>system. Even though you don't have access to the hyper visor of the storage, >>you're still getting the >>operating system consistency >>while getting the really >>fast capture of data. So that gets into you talking on stage about how synapse don't equal data protection. I think you just explained it, but explain why, but let me highlight something that VM does that is important. We manage both snapshots and back up because if you can recover from your storage array >>snapshot. That is the best >>possible thing to recover from right, But we don't. So we manage both the snapshots and we converted >>into the VM portable >>data format. And here's where the super cloud comes into play because if I can convert it into the VM portable data format, I can move >>that OS >>anywhere. I can move it from >>physical to virtual to cloud >>to another cloud back to virtual. I can put it back on physical if I want to. It actually abstracts >>the cloud >>layer. There are things >>that we do when we go >>between clouds. Some use bio, >>some use, um, fee. >>But we have the data in backup format, not snapshot format. That's theirs. But we have been in backup format that we can move >>around and abstract >>workloads across. All of the infrastructure in your >>catalogue is control >>of that. Is that Is >>that right? That is about >>that 100%. And you know what's interesting about our catalogue? Dave. The catalogue is inside the backup, and so historically, one of the problems with backup is that you had a separate catalogue and if it ever got corrupted. All of your >>data is meaningless >>because the catalogue is inside >>the backup >>for that unique VM or that unique instance, you can move it anywhere and power it on. That's why people said were >>so reliable. As long >>as you have the backup file, you can delete our >>software. You can >>still get the data back, so I love this fast paced so that >>enables >>what I call Super Cloud we now call Super Cloud >>because now >>take that to the edge. >>If I want to go to the edge, I presume you can extend that. And I also presume the containers play a role there. Yes, so here's what's interesting about the edge to things on the edge. You don't want to have any state if you can help it, >>and so >>containers help with that. You can have stateless environment, some >>persistent data storage, >>but we not only >>provide the portability >>in operating systems. We also do this for containers, >>and that's >>true if you go to the cloud and you're using SE CKs >>with relational >>database service is already >>asked for the persistent data. >>Later, we can pick that up and move it to G K E or move it to open shift >>on premises. And >>so that's why I call this the super cloud. We have all of this data. Actually, I think you termed the term super thank you for I'm looking for confirmation from a technologist that it's technically feasible. It >>is technically feasible, >>and you can do it today and that's a I think it's a winning strategy. Personally, Will there be >>such a thing as edge Native? You know, there's cloud native. Will there be edge native new architectures, new ways of doing things, new workloads use cases? We talk about hardware, new hardware, architectures, arm based stuff that are going to change everything to edge Native Yes and no. There's going to be small tweaks that make it better for the edge. You're gonna see a lot of iron at the edge, obviously for power consumption purposes, and you're also going to see different constructs for networking. We're not going to use the traditional networking, probably a lot more software to find stuff. Same thing on the storage. They're going to try and >>minimise the persistent >>storage to the smallest footprint possible. But ultimately I think we're gonna see containers >>will lead >>the edge. We're seeing this now. We have a I probably can't name them, but we have a large retail organisation that is running containers in every single store with a small, persistent footprint of the point of sale and local data, but that what >>is running the actual >>system is containers, and it's completely ephemeral. So we were >>at Red Hat, I was saying >>earlier last week, and I'd say half 40 50% of the conversation was edge open shift, obviously >>playing a big role there. I >>know doing work with Rancher and Town Zoo. And so there's a lot of options there. >>But obviously, open shift has >>strong momentum in the >>marketplace. >>I've been dominating. You want to chime in? No, I'm just No, >>I yeah, I know. Sometimes >>I'll sit here like a sponge, which isn't my job absorbing stuff. I'm just fascinated by the whole concept of of a >>of a portable format for data that encapsulates virtual machines and or instances that can live in the containerised world. And once you once you create that common denominator, that's really that's >>That's the secret sauce >>for what you're talking about is a super club and what's been fascinating to watch because I've been paying attention since the beginning. You go from simply V. M. F s and here it is. And by the way, the pitch to E. M. C. About buying VM ware. It was all about reducing servers to files that can be stored on storage arrays. All of a sudden, the light bulbs went off. We can store those things, and it just began. It became it became a marriage afterwards. But to watch that progression that you guys have gone from from that fundamental to all of the other areas where now you've created this common denominator layer has has been amazing. So my question is, What's the singer? What doesn't work? Where the holes. You don't want to look at it from a from a glass half empty perspective. What's the next opportunity? We've talked about edge, but what are the things that you need to fill in to make this truly ubiquitous? Well, there's a lot of services out there that we're not protecting. To be fair, right, we do. Microsoft 3 65. We announced sales for us, but there's a dozen other paths services that >>people are moving data >>into. And until >>we had data protection >>for the assassin path services, you know >>you have to figure out how >>to protect them. Now here's the kicker about >>those services. >>Most of them have the >>ability to dump date >>out. The trick is, do they have the A >>P? I is needed to put data >>back into it right, >>which is which is a >>gap. As an industry, we need to address this. I actually think we need a common >>framework for >>how to manage the >>export of data, but also the import of data not at a at a system level, but at an atomic level of the elements within those applications. >>So there are gaps >>there at the industry, but we'll fill them >>if you look on the >>infrastructure side. We've done a lot with containers and kubernetes. I think there's a next wave around server list. There's still servers and these micro services, but we're making things smaller and smaller and smaller, and there's going to be an essential need to protect those services as well. So modern data protection is something that's going to we're gonna need modern data protection five years from now, the modern will just be different. Do you ever see the day, Danny, where governance becomes an >>adjacency opportunity for >>you guys? It's clearly an opportunity even now if you look, we spent a lot of time talking about security and what you find is when organisations go, for example, of ransomware insurance or for compliance, they need to be able to prove that they have certifications or they have security or they have governance. We just saw transatlantic privacy >>packed only >>to be able to prove what type of data they're collecting. Where are they storing it? Where are they allowed to recovered? And yes, those are very much adjacency is for our customers. They're trying to manage that data. >>So given that I mean, >>am I correct that architecturally you are, are you location agnostic? Right. We are a location agnostic, and you can actually tag data to allowable location. So the big trend that I think is happening is going to happen in in this >>this this decade. >>I think we're >>scratching the surface. Is this idea >>that, you know, leave data where it is, >>whether it's an S three >>bucket, it could be in an Oracle >>database. It could be in a snowflake database. It can be a data lake that's, you know, data, >>bricks or whatever, >>and it stays where >>it is. And it's just a note on the on the call of the data >>mesh. Not my term. Jim >>Octagon coined that term. The >>problem with that, and it puts data in the hands of closer to the domain experts. The problem with that >>scenario >>is you need self service infrastructure, which really doesn't exist today anyway. But it's coming, and the big problem is Federated >>computational >>governance. How do I automate that governance so that the people who should have access to that it can have access to that data? That, to me, seems to be an adjacency. It doesn't exist except in >>a proprietary >>platform. Today. There needs to be a horizontal >>layer >>that is more open than anybody >>can use. And I >>would think that's a perfect opportunity for you guys. Just strategically it is. There's no question, and I would argue, Dave, that it's actually >>valuable to take snapshots and to keep the data out at the edge wherever it happens to be collected. But then Federated centrally. It's why I get so excited by an exhibit of data this year going into the cloud, because then you're centralising the aggregation, and that's where you're really going to drive the insights. You're not gonna be writing tensorflow and machine learning and things on premises unless you have a lot of money and a lot of GPS and a lot of capacity. That's the type of thing that is actually better suited for the cloud. And, I would argue, better suited for not your organisation. You're gonna want to delegate that to a third party who has expertise in privacy, data analysis or security forensics or whatever it is that you're trying to do with the data. But you're gonna today when you think about AI. We talked about A. I haven't had a tonne of talk about AI some >>appropriate >>amount. Most of the >>AI today correct me if you think >>this is not true is modelling that's done in the cloud. It's dominant. >>Don't >>you think that's gonna flip when edge >>really starts to take >>off where it's it's more real time >>influencing >>at the edge in new use cases at the edge now how much of that data >>is going to be >>persisted is a >>point of discussion. But what >>are your thoughts on that? I completely agree. So my expectation of the way >>that this will work is that >>the true machine learning will happen in the centralised location, and what it will do is similar to someone will push out to the edge the signatures that drive the inferences. So my example of this is always the Tesla driving down the road. >>There's no way that that >>car should be figuring it sending up to the cloud. Is that a stop sign? Is it not? It can't. It has to be able to figure out what the stop sign is before it gets to it, so we'll do the influencing at the edge. But when it doesn't know what to do with the data, then it should send it to the court to determine, to learn about it and send signatures back out, not just to that edge location, but all the edge locations within the within the ecosystem. So I get what you're saying. They might >>send data back >>when there's an anomaly, >>or I always use the example of a deer running in front of the car. David Floyd gave me that one. That's when I want to. I do want to send the data back to the cloud because Tesla doesn't persist. A tonne of data, I presume, right, right less than 5% of it. You know, I want to. Usually I'm here to dive into the weeds. I want kind of uplevel this >>to sort of the >>larger picture. From an I T perspective. >>There's been a lot of consolidation going on if you divide the >>world into vendors >>and customers. On the customer side, there are only if there's a finite number of seats at the table for truly strategic partners. Those get gobbled up often by hyper >>scale cloud >>providers. The challenge there, and I'm part of a CEO accreditation programme. So this >>is aimed at my students who >>are CEOs and CIOs. The challenge is that a lot of CEOs and CIOs on the customer side don't exhaustively drag out of their vendor partners like a theme everything that Saveem >>can do for >>them. Maybe they're leveraging a point >>solution, >>but I guarantee you they don't all know that you've got cast in in the portfolio. Not every one of them does yet, let alone this idea of a super >>cloud and and and >>how much of a strategic role you can play. So I don't know if it's a blanket admonition to folks out there, but you have got to leverage the people who are building the solutions that are going to help you solve problems in the business. And I guess, as in the form of >>a question, >>uh, do you Do you see that as a challenge? Now those the limited number of seats at >>the Table for >>Strategic Partners >>Challenge and >>Opportunity. If you look at the types of partners that we've partnered with storage partners because they own the storage of the data, at the end of the day, we actually just manage it. We don't actually store it the cloud partners. So I see that as the opportunity and my belief is I thought that the storage doesn't matter, >>but I think the >>organisation that can centralise and manage that data is the one that can rule the world, and so >>clearly I'm a team. I think we can do amazing things, but we do have key >>strategic partners hp >>E Amazon. You heard >>them on stage yesterday. >>18 different >>integrations with AWS. So we have very strategic partners. Azure. I go out there all the time. >>So there >>you don't need to be >>in the room at the table because your partners are >>and they have a relationship with the customer as well. Fair enough. But the key to this it's not just technology. It is these relationships and what is possible between our organisations. So I'm sorry to be >>so dense on this, but when you talk about >>centralising that data you're talking about physically centralising it or can actually live across clouds, >>for instance. But you've got >>visibility and your catalogues >>have visibility on >>all that. Is that what you mean by centralised obliterated? We have understanding of all the places that lives, and we can do things with >>it. We can move it from one >>cloud to another. We can take, you know, everyone talks about data warehouses. >>They're actually pretty expensive. >>You got to take data and stream it into this thing, and there's a massive computing power. On the other hand, we're >>not like that. You've storage on there. We can ephemeral e. Spin up a database when you need it for five minutes and then destroy it. We can spin up an image when you need it and then destroy it. And so on your perspective of locations. So irrespective of >>location, it doesn't >>have to be in a central place, and that's been a challenge. You extract, >>transform and load, >>and moving the data to the central >>location has been a problem. We >>have awareness of >>all the data everywhere, >>and then we can make >>decisions as to what you >>do based >>on where it is and >>what it is. And that's a metadata >>innovation. I guess that >>comes back to the catalogue, >>right? Is that correct? >>You have data >>about the data that informs you as to where it is and how to get to it. And yes, so metadata within the data that allows you to recover it and then data across the federation of all that to determine where it is. And machine intelligence plays a role in all that, not yet not yet in that space. Now. I do think there's opportunity in the future to be able to distribute storage across many different locations and that's a whole conversation in itself. But but our machine learning is more just on helping our customers address the problems in their infrastructures rather than determining right now where that data should be. >>These guys they want me to break, But I'm >>refusing. So your >>Hadoop back >>in their rooms via, um that's >>well, >>that scale. A lot of customers. I talked to Renee Dupuis. Hey, we we got there >>was heavy lift. You >>know, we're looking at new >>ways. New >>approaches, uh, going. And of course, it's all in the cloud >>anyway. But what's >>that look like? That future look like we haven't reached bottle and X ray yet on our on our Hadoop clusters, and we do continuously examine >>them for anomalies that might happen. >>Not saying we won't run into a >>bottle like we always do at some >>point, But we haven't yet >>awesome. We've covered a lot of We've certainly covered extensively the research that you did on cyber >>security and ransomware. Um, you're kind of your vision for modern >>data protection. I think we hit on that pretty well casting, you know, we talked to Michael about that, and then, you know, the future product releases the Salesforce data protection. You guys, I think you're the first there. I think you were threatened at first from Microsoft. 3 65. No, there are other vendors in the in the salesforce space. But what I tell people we weren't the first to do data capture at the hyper >>visor level. There's two other >>vendors I won't tell you they were No one remembers them. Microsoft 3 65. We weren't the first one to for that, but we're now >>the largest. So >>there are other vendors in the salesforce space. But we're looking at We're going to be aggressive. Danielle, Thanks >>so much for coming to Cuba and letting us pick your brain like that Really great job today. And congratulations on >>being back >>in semi normal. Thank you for having me. I love being on all right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there. More coverage. Day volonte for Dave >>Nicholson, By >>the way, check out silicon angle dot com for all the written coverage. All the news >>The cube dot >>net is where all these videos We'll we'll live. Check out wiki bond dot com I published every week. I think I'm gonna dig into the cybersecurity >>research that you guys did this week. If I can >>get a hands my hands on those charts which Dave Russell promised >>me, we'll be right back >>right after this short break. Mm.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the cube. Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello everyone and welcome to this week's Wikibon cube insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis ahead of the RSA conference, we want to update you on the cyber security sector. This year's event is underlined by coronavirus fears, IBM has pulled out of the event and cited the epidemic as the reason and it's also brings to the front the sale of RSA by Dell to STG partners and private equity firm. Now in our last security drill down, we cited several mega trends in the security sector. These included the ever escalating sophistication of the attacker, the increased risk from the data economy, the expanded attack surface with the huge number of IP addresses that are that are exploding out there, and the lack of skills and the number of cyber tools that are coming to the market. Now, as you know, in these segments, we'd like to share insights from the cube. And I want you to listen to two American statesman and what they said, on The Cube. Here's general Keith Alexander, who's the former director of the NSA, along with Dr. Robert Gates, who's the former director of the CIA and former Secretary of Defense, play the clip. >> When you think about threats, you think about nation states, so you can go to Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, and then you think about criminal threats, and all the things like ransomware. Some of the nation state actors are also criminals at night, so they can use nation state tools and my concern about all the evolution of cyber threats is that the attacks are getting more destructive. >> I think cyber and the risks associated with cyber, and IT need to be a regular part of every board's agenda. >> So you hear General Alexander really underscore the danger, as well, Dr. Gates is articulating what we've said many times on the cube that cyber security is a board level agenda item. Now, the comments from both of these individuals represent what I would consider tailwinds for cyber technology companies. Now we're going to drill into some of those today. But it's not all frictionless. There are headwinds to in this market space, cloud migration, the shift from north south south to East West network traffic, its pressure traditional appliance based perimeter security solutions, increase complexity and lack of skills and other macro factors, including questions on ROI. CFO saying, hey, we spend all this cash, why aren't we more secure? Now, I want you to hear from two chief information security officers officers on both the challenges that they face and how they're dealing with them. Roll the clip. >> Lack of talent, I mean, we're starving for talent. Cybersecurity is the only field in the world with negative unemployment. We just don't have the actual bodies to actually fill the gaps that we have and in that lack of talent Cecil's are starving. >> I think that the public cloud offers us a really interesting opportunity to reinvent security right. So if you think about all of the technologies and processes and many of which are manual over the years, I think we have an opportunity to leverage automation to make our work easier in some ways. >> Now I featured Brian Lozada and Katie Jenkins before and breaking analysis segments, and you can hear it from the cyber leaders, we lack the talent, and cloud computing and automation are areas we're pursuing. So this challenges security companies to respond. But at the end of the day, companies have no no choice. In other words, organizations buying security solutions, the sophistication of the attacker is very high and the answer to my CFO and ROI is fear based. If you don't do this, you might lose billions in market cap. Now, I want you to take a listen to these cubilam talking about the attacker of sophistication and the importance of communication skills in order to fund cyber initiatives, really to keep up with the bad guys, please play the clip. >> The adversary is talented and they're patient, they're well funded okay, that's that's where it starts. And so, you know why why bring an interpreter to a host when there's already one there right? Why write all this complicated software distribution when I can just use yours. And so that's that's where the play the game starts. And and the most advanced threats aren't leaving footprints because the footprints already there, you know, they'll get on a machine and behaviorally they'll check the cash to see what's hot. And what's hot in the cash means that behaviorally, it's a fast they can go they're not cutting a new trail most of the time, right? So living off the land is not only the tools that they're using the automation, your automation they're using against you, but it's also behavioral. >> That's why the most the most important talent or skill that a security professional needs is communication skills. If you can't articulate technical risk into a business risk to fund your program, it's, you know, it's very hard for you to actually be successful in security. >> Now, the really insidious thing about what TK Keanini just said is the attackers are living off the land, meaning they're using your tools and your behaviors to sneak around your data unnoticed. And so as Brian Lozada said, as a security Pro, you need to be a great communicator in order to get the funding that you need to compete with the bad guys. Which brings me to the RSA conference. This is why you as a security practitioner attend, you want to learn more, you want to obtain new skills, you want to bring back ideas to the organization. Now one of the things I did to prepare for this segment is to read the RSA conference content agenda, which was co authored by Britta Glade and I read numerous blogs and articles about what to expect at the event and from all that I put together this word cloud, which conveys some of the key themes that I would expect you're going to hear at the shows. Look at skills jump right out, just like Brian was saying, the human element is going to be a big deal this year. IoT and the IT OT schism, everyone's talking about the Olympics, and seeing that as a watershed event for cyber, how to apply machine learning and AI is a big theme, as is cloud with containers and server less. phishing, zero trust and frameworks, framework for privacy, frameworks for governance and compliance, the 2020 election and weaponizing social media with deep fakes, and expect to hear a lot about the challenges of securing 5G networks, open source risks, supply chain risks, and of course, the need for automation. And it's no surprise there's going to be a lot of talk about cyber technology, the products and of course, the companies that sell them. So let's get into the market and unpack some of the ETR spending data and drill into some of these companies. The first chart I want to show you is spending on cyber relative to other initiatives. What this chart shows is the spending on cyber security highlighted in the green in relation to other sectors in the ETR taxonomy. Notice the blue dot. It shows the change in spending expected in 2020 versus 2019. Now, two points here. First, is that despite the top of my narrative that we always hear, the reality is that other initiatives compete for budget and you just can't keep throwing cash at the security problem. As I've said before, we spend like .014% percent of our global GDP on cyber, so we barely scratched the surface. The second point is there's there's there's a solid year on year growth quite high at 12% for a sector that's estimated at 100 to 150 billion dollars worldwide, according to many sources. Now let's take a look at some of the players in this space, who are going to be presenting at the RSA conference. You might remember to my 2020 predictions in that breaking analysis I focused on two ETR metrics, Net Score, which is a measure of spending velocity and Market Share, which measures pervasiveness in the data set. And I anointed nine security players as four star players. These were Microsoft, Cisco, Palo Alto Networks, Splunk, Proofpoint, Fortinet, Oka, Cyber Ark and CrowdStrike. What we're showing here is an update of that data with the January survey data. My four star companies were defined as those in the cyber security sector that demonstrate in both net scores or spending momentum, that's the left hand chart and market share or pervasiveness on the right hand chart. Within the top 22 companies, why did I pick 22? Well, seemed like a solid number and it fit nicely in the screen and allowed more folks. So a few takeaways here. One is that there are a lot of cyber security companies in the green from the standpoint of net score. Number two is that Fortinet and Cisco fell off the four star list because of their net scores. While still holding reasonably well, they dropped somewhat. Also, some other companies like Verona's and Vera code and Carbon Black jumped up on the net score rankings, but Cisco and Fortinet are still showing some strength in the market overall, I'ma talk about that. Cisco security businesses up 9% in the quarter, and Fortinet is breaking away from Palo Alto Networks from a valuation perspective, which I'm going to drill into a bit. So we're going to give Cisco and Fortinet two stars this survey period. But look at Zscaler. They made the cut this time their net score or spending momentum jumped from 38% last quarter to nearly 45% in the January survey, with a sizable shared in at 123. So we've added Zscaler to the four star list, they have momentum, and we're going to continue to watch that quarterly horse race. Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Microsoft continues to get stronger and stronger in many sectors including cyber. So that's something to really pay attention to. Okay, I want to talk about the valuations a bit. Valuations of cyber security space are really interesting and for reasons we've discussed before the market's hot right now, some people think it's overvalued, but I think the space is going to continue to perform quite well, relative to other areas and tech. Why do I say that? Because cyber continues to be a big priority for organizations, the software and annual recurring revenue contribution ARR continues to grow, M&A is going to continue to be robust in my view, which is going to fuel valuations. So Let's look at some of the public companies within cyber. What I've compiled in this chart is eight public companies that were cited as four star or two star firms, as I defined earlier, now ranked this by market value. In the columns, we show the market cap and trailing 12 month revenue in billions, the revenue multiple and the annual revenue growth. And I've highlighted Palo Alto Networks and Fortinet because I want to drill into those two firms, as there's a valuation divergence going on between those two names, and I'll come back to that in just a minute. But first, I want to make a few points about this data. Number one is there's definitely a proportional relationship between the growth rate and the revenue multiple or premium being paid for these companies. Generally growth ranges between one and a half to three times the revenue multiple being paid. CrowdStrike for example has a 39 x revenue multiple and is growing at 110%, so they're at the high end of that range with a growth at 2.8 times their revenue multiple today. Second, and related, as you can see a wide range of revenue multiples based on these growth rates with CrowdStrike, Okta and now Zscaler as the standouts in this regard. And I have to call at Splunk as well. They're both large, and they have high growth, although they are moving beyond, you know, security, they're going into adjacencies and big data analytics, but you you have to love the performance of Splunk. The third point is this is a lucrative market. You have several companies with valuations in the double digit billions, and many with multi billion dollar market values. Cyber chaos means cash for many of these companies, and, of course for their investors. Now, Palo Alto throw some of these ratios out of whack, ie, why the lower revenue multiple with that type of growth, and it's because they've had some execution issues lately. And this annual growth rate is really not the best reflection of the stock price today. That's really being driven by quarterly growth rates and less robust management guidance. So why don't we look into that a bit. What this chart shows is the one year relative stock prices of Palo Alto Networks in the blue and compared to Fortinet in the red. Look at the divergence in the two stocks, look at they traded in a range and then you saw the split when Palo Alto missed its quarter last year. So let me share what I think is happening. First, Palo Alto has been a very solid performance since an IPO in 2012. It's delivered more than four Rex returns to shareholders over that period. Now, what they're trying to do is cloud proof their business. They're trying to transition more to an AR model, and rely less on appliance centric firewalls, and firewalls are core part of the business and that has underperformed expectations lately. And you just take Legacy Tech and Cloud Wash and Cloud native competitors like Zscaler are taking advantage of this and setting the narrative there. Now Palo Alto Network has also had some very tough compares in 2019 relative to 2018, that should somewhat abate this year. Also, Palo Alto has said some execution issues during this transition, especially related to sales and sales incentives and aligning that with this new world of cloud. And finally, Palo Alto was in the process of digesting some acquisitions like Twistlock, PureSec and some others over the past year, and that could be a distraction. Fortinet on the other hand, is benefiting from a large portfolio refresh is capitalizing on the momentum that that's bringing, in fact, all the companies I listed you know, they may be undervalued despite, of all the company sorry that I listed Fortinet may be undervalued despite the drop off from the four star list that I mentioned earlier. Fortinet is one of those companies with a large solution set that can cover a lot of market space. And where Fortinet faces similar headwinds as Palo Alto, it seems to be executing better on the cloud transition. Now the last thing I want to share on this topic is some data from the ETR regression testing. What ETR does is their data scientists run regression models and fit a linear equation to determine whether Wall Street earnings consensus estimates are consistent with the ETR spending data, they started trying to line those up and see what the divergence is. What this chart shows is the results of that regression analysis for both Fortinet and Palo Alto. And you can see the ETR spending data suggests that both companies could outperform somewhat expectations. Now, I wouldn't run and buy the stock based on this data as there's a lot more to the story, but let's watch the earnings and see how this plays out. All right, I want to make a few comments about the sale of the RSA asset. EMC bought RSA for around the same number, roughly $2 billion that SDG is paying Dell. So I'm obviously not impressed with the return that RSA has delivered since 2006. The interesting takeaway is that Dell is choosing liquidity over the RSA cyber security asset. So it says to me that their ability to pay down debt is much more important to Dell and their go forward plan. Remember, for every $5 billion that Dell pays down in gross debt, it dropped 25 cents to EPS. This is important for Dell to get back to investment grade debt, which will further lower its cost. It's a lever that Dell can turn. Now and also in thinking about this, it's interesting that VMware, which the member is acquiring security assets like crazy and most recently purchased carbon black, and they're building out a Security Division, they obviously didn't paw on the table fighting to roll RSA into that division. You know maybe they did in the financial value of the cash to Dell was greater than the value of the RSA customers, the RSA product portfolio and of course, the RSA conference. But my guess is Gelsinger and VMware didn't want the legacy tech. Gelsinger said many times that security is broken, it's his mission to fix it or die trying. So I would bet that he and VMware didn't see RSA as a path to fixing security, it's more likely that they saw it as a non strategic shrinking asset that they didn't want any part of. Now for the record, and I'm even won't bother showing you the the data but RSA and the ETR data set is an unimpressive player in cyber security, their market share or pervasiveness is middle of the pack, so it's okay but their net score spending velocities in the red, and it's in the bottom 20th percentile of the data set. But it is a known brand, certainly within cyber. It's got a great conference and it's been it's probably better that a PE company owns them than being a misfit toy inside of Dell. All right, it's time to summarize, as we've been stressing in our breaking analysis segments and on the cube, the adversaries are very capable. And we should expect continued escalation. Venture capital is going to keep pouring into startups and that's going to lead to more fragmentation. But the market is going to remain right for M&A With valuations on the rise. The battle continues for best of breed tools from upstarts like CrowdStrike and Okta and Zscaler versus sweets from big players like Cisco, Palo Alto Networks and Fortinet. Growth is going to continue to drive valuations. And so let's keep our eyes on the cloud, remains disruptive and for some provides momentum for others provides friction. Security practitioners will continue to be well paid because there's a skill shortage and that's not going away despite the push toward automation. Got in talk about machine intelligence but AI and ML those tools, there are two edged sword as bad actors are leveraging installed infrastructure, both tools and behaviors to so called live off the land, upping the stakes in the arms race. Okay, this is Dave Vellante for Wikibon's CUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching this breaking analysis. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasted Spotfire or wherever you listen. Connect with me at david.vellante at siliconangle.com, or comment on my LinkedIn. I'm @dvellante on Twitter. Thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music).

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> live in. Welcome to a special cube conversation here in Palo Alto. The Cube Studios. Jon, for your host. We're here with a special panel. Talk about the new brand of tech leaders in this era of cloud computing data. Aye, aye. And engineering excellence with us. We have Christine Heckart to CEO of Scaler J. P. Krishna of Marthe Moorthy. These s VP of engineering a Copa software and Patna saying, VP of engineering a glass door. Guys, welcome to come the Cube conversation. Welcome, engineer. And you guys are all running engineering organizations. You've been a former engineer now running a big company CEO, engineering led company. This is a big trend that's clearly defined. No one needs any validation. Cloud computing has certainly changed the game, eh? I certainly the hottest trend with respect, the data machine learning and the benefits. They're changing the cultures of companies changing how things were built, how people are hired. You're starting to see a complete shift towards old way and new ways. I want to get your thoughts about the engineering opportunities. What is engineering excellence today mean in this modern error? >> Well, for us it we talk a lot about mastery and setting up an environment where engineers have a chance to build their own mastery. But they can also have the necessary tools and technologies to be master of their domain. And these domains, especially if it's cloud base. They're very distributed. They're very, very fast moving. There's a lot of continual risk s so you have to set them up in the right way so they could be successful. >> What's your thoughts? I mean, you guys air cutting edge startup? >> Yes. For us, it's very important that the environment, the working moment for engineers, is organically inspiring. And what I mean by that is when every engineer no, why are there what are they doing? Well, how their work is impacting the company in the business initiators. At the same time, we are making sure that their interests are aligned with Albert projects and work in a way that we are also in a healthy, very extending and stretching their skills when their work has a purpose. And that's what our mission is, which is we want to make sure that everybody finds an opportunity where they feel there's a purpose that its purpose driven, that's when we feel like it. That's a great environment where they will be inspired to come every day and deliver their 110% >> J p excellence and engineering. I mean, this is what people strive for. >> So excellent points from both off them and I. I think I have a slightly different take on it as well. Today's business is we are asked to respond really, really fast, maybe hear the tongue a gel everywhere, John, right? So it's about how do we respond to the needs of the business as quickly as you can On dhe, it becomes the mantra for the organization. Having said that, there is another side to it. The dark side is technical debt. That's something we all have toe grapple with because you're moving fast, you're making decisions. You're hoping things all right, You want to prove your thesis out there, but at the same time, you don't wantto put yourself behind so that it might come and bite you later. So it's finding that balance is really, really important, and that becomes the focal point of the organization. How do you move fast, but at the same time Hold it. Oh, do you not slow yourself down in the >> future? That's a great point. I want to get probably your thoughts. That's because open source has been really a different game changer from the old way to the new way. Because you could work with people from different companies. You can work on projects that a better man for other people as well. So it's got a communal aspect to it. But also there is an element of speed the same time agile forces, this kind of concept. So technical debt. You want to move fast, we gotta recover. You kind of know how to get there. How is open source? Change that in Europe in >> well, number one thing that opens and allows all smaller company especially but more companies is that now you you can take on an open source project and start rather starting from ground zero. You can start somewhere where you know it's already helped, and you have a framework ready to start working on. So you're not every two single time we're building our thinking off a new idea you're not starting. Okay, Now let me school start from ground up, right? So you already are at a certain level, the second area where, like you said, you know, we're a Joe. Uh, we have open source, but we also have certain level of customization that the customers needed our application needs. And that's what inspires engineers as well, which is taking the challenger for K. We have a code based. Now let me build something more interesting, more innovative. And then what they also love is giving back to the community. It's we're not. The companies are not just tech community engineering team. We are have a bigger engineering community now, the whole tackle, and that's what makes a big difference for us working in Silicon Valley to even be part of that and contributing factor. >> J P Talk about technical debt when it comes back to the modern era because you can go back to It's been around for a while. Technical dead concerts, not new, but it's always been kind of the water cooler come with core lead engineer and the team. The Aussies have a term called feature creeping. You know, the old days. I don't get it. The feature creep. Actually, it kind of takes it away because of you. If you're applying technical debt properly, you're managing the velocity of the project. So the question is, how is technical debt evolved to the management levels of senior engineering managers? Because that seems to be a key variable in managing the speed and quality of the teams with managing the table. Done. Now, management is what some other conversations. >> So the game depends on the stage of the company Onda stage of the projects you are. If you're in a really mature suffer environment, very you're not making a lot of change. It's OK. It's not the primary conversation off the topic. But if you're trying to you capture a market or promote an idea, it becomes the fundamental thesis, forgetting things out there quickly Now, getting things out there quickly doesn't mean you get to let users suffer. You had to build it in the right way, needs toe work, but at the same time it needs to be just enough so that we can We can get the feedback from from the user's on. At the same time, you probably would have left out potentially features on. Maybe you didn't even make certain decisions on Let's say, hi availability or our scalability. Maybe you wanna prove it out in only one region of the world and so on. So you have to find those balances, and it becomes part of the planning conversations right in the front. And as you go into the further iterations of the product, it becomes part of the prioritization conversation of the product managers because it's not just about getting one part done and getting it out there. But as it reached the full level of maturity that you would want, >> I'm sure there's a lot of debates about an engineer organizations because, you know, engineers a very vocal you. Yeah, so you could fall in love with your product of your time to market, maybe taking some technical debt to get product market fit. And that's my baby, though, when you got a re platform or re scale it to make it scale, bringing with your point you mentioned. How do you guys manage? Because this becomes a talent management. People say, Oh, you gotta manage the ECOWAS. But if some people are managing the project in there. They're going to fire over their skis on technical debt. You gotta kind of rain that in. How do you guys manage the people side of the equation? That because it's an art and a science at the same time? What's your thoughts? >> Well, I'll say this, um, supporting al aspects of change, right? That's also is an injury leader. It's a core responsibility and call it a priority for us, not just the technical debt, but also the market shifts. Technology shifts. We have new tech coming in. We have involving in evolving every technology. So how do via dear to and make sure that it's very important that engineering is supporting and kind of coming up with these technologies a tte the same time? We are not just pulling down to their version of grades and all of them, so in a jest, it's it's a core aspect of leadership to make sure that you, as we are supporting these changes, were also making sure that these changes are not pulling us down. So that should be proper quality checks. There should be a proper conversation and roadmap items which is saying that it's not attack debt. It's more of a tech investment, and we are talking about so that we're in lock steps with our business partner and not behind, so that now we're saying Okay, we need a whole quarter to develop new things. So it's an aspect of filmmaking. Sure, team this motivated >> This comes back to culture. Next question. I want to get you guys thoughts on this building. A positive work culture given engineering led organization. Christine, you're leading that now to start up because your own real fast a lot. A lot of engineers. They're probably a lot of opinions on what that looks like. What is the cultural quick? Because this sets the DNA early on for startup. But as you're maturing organization, you gotta track the best talent. And some say, Well, we work on We saw hard problems. That's kind of cliche, but ultimately you do have to kind of have that problem solving aspect. You gotta have a culture what is a successful work culture for engineering. >> So every everybody talks about engineers wanna solve hard problems. I think that's true. But as Pablo said earlier, if you can help every engineer connect what they're doing, every day to the higher purpose. The organization to the problem that you're solving and how that makes the customers like better in our case, were accompanied by engineers for engineer. So our engineers get really excited about giving other engineers in the world a better day. We have taken it one step further recently by starting a peer network because one of my observations coming into this organization is there are so many peer networks in I t. Because it's been a 30 year industry. There are tons of pure organizations for CEOs. There are tons appear organizations for C. M. O's, but there really aren't for engineers. And if we want to help engineers really develop their career and their full skill set and therefore develop into their full potential, it's about more than just training them. It's about giving them context and full social skills and giving them places where they can learn not just from the other engineers in their company, but from engineers across the organization or across the industry at their same level, and maybe from very different industries and maybe in very different environments. So I think in our case, you know, really trying to bring these peer networks together has been one way that we can not only pay it forward for our own engineers, but also help a lot of other engineers around of the industry >> how you guys handling the engineering talent pertaining, attracting and keeping the best now. >> So I think that's where the whole company comes together, in my view. So as an injuring leader, it's not just that I said the tune of my engineering or as to what? That hiring his top priority. It's where the whole company comes together. You're recruiting team to build the stellar interview process. You are, you know, heads of other orcs to make sure that across the board you're helping define a mission for your company that resonates with your candidates who would want to work with you. So it's a collective effort of building a stellar environment for us glass door when one of the few values is transparency and we live and die by it, which means that when someone is higher, they need to see that be within the company. We are transparent, so we'd share a lot of data. A lot of information, good and bad with every single person in the company. It's never, um, hidden at the same time. We build and set up trust in them to say, Hey, it's confidential. Make sure that it doesn't leave the company and it's been 11 years and it hasn't It has never been the case. >> What class door you don't want have a glass door entry on black. Gotta be transparent. That's the culture. Culture matters minutes. Your culture is all about sharing and being open. >> You will see it. So that's what this is, what God goes down spike for as well, right? Building transparency within the company culture and more and more as we see many stories that we have seen for various companies. And sometimes I get a bad story, too, and I get an invitation. Oh, you're from class door, you know. But that helps overall Rios living and working for user's and professionals. >> Cross is big for you guys, >> absolutely professionals who are in this world looking for a job and life because you're spending a lot of time at work. So we want you to get up every day and be inspired and happy about where you're going to work and for that. That's why we have sharing a lot of the insights about the company's from reviews and ratings and CEO data to make sure that when you make your decision of the next move, you are you can be fully trust. You could be fully confident that the date of your sharing the new with that you're making a good decision. >> J. P. Your thoughts. You guys are on a tear. We've got a great coverage of your the annual conference in Vegas. Recent cube coverage. Your company on paper looks like you're targeting one segment, but you have a lot of range and you're technical platform with data. Um, how you guys articulating to engineering? How do you keep them? What if some of the stories you tell them to attract them to join you guys? >> So number one thing is about the talent that we already have in hopes. So people want to come to work at a place where they can learn, contribute on dhe, also for their Carrie Carrie Respert, both inside Cooper and as the lead on coming into Cooper. They look at it and they say, Oh, you have ah, wide variety of things going on here. You're solving a business problem. But at the same time, the technology stocks are different. You're on all the best clothes are there, so that's an easy attraction for them to come in. But also, it's not just about getting people, and how do you retain them on? We've been lucky. That had very low tuition for many years. Right now in the engineering organization, especially in the value, it is a big deal. Andi. I think part of the things that that is the collaboration and cooperation that they get from everybody on. You know, it's an age old saying diversity and thought, unity in action, right? So I really promote people thinking about radius ideas and alternatives. But there is a time for that debate. And once we agree on a solution, we all pulled in and try to make that successful. And then you repeat that often, and it becomes part of part of the culture and the way the organization operates as >> a follow up to culture. One thing that's become pretty clear is that's global engineering. You mention the valley very competitive, some start ups that they get on that rocket ship can get all the great talent. If you will public everyone. Everyone gets rich of one's happy, a good mission behind it, you know, win win outside. Some stars have to attract talent. You've got to start going on here. You might have a good colonel of great engineers, but you have development environments all over the world, so remote is a big thing. How do you manage the engineer remote? It's a time zone base. Does it put leaders in charge? Is there a philosophy in the Amazon? Has a two pizza team is their big thing. You get small groups. How did you guys view the engineering makeup? Because this becomes a part of the operational tension but operating model of engineering thoughts >> I can go first. I think there is a tension between keeping teams working on one problem on not distributing it across the world for efficiency reasons. But at the same time, how do you all owe for continuity, especially if you have a problem in one area? Can somebody else from another region step in in a different time zone continuing? That's always a problem, and then the other one is in a landscape like ours, in which is not uncommon for many, many companies. It is not that they built a lot of fragmented things. They all need to work together. So having a level of continuity within the radius remote centers is really critical on everybody has their own recipe for this one. But the ones that works for us and I've seen that played out many times, is if you can get a set off teams, toe, focus on certain problem areas and become experts in those >> cohesive within their >> within the physical, and then also have enough critical mass within a center that gives you the good balance between working on. One thing. Worse is knowing everything. So so that works for us, and I I think that's that's the way to get out >> of the operating system. It is a couple highly cohesive, >> and you need to have the right technical leaders on both sides and be willing to collaborate with each other >> partner thoughts >> I want to emphasize on the last statement you really need strong good, really, you know, trusted leaders in the location to Canada, then inculcated more bigger team everything Glassdoor groove from one location to four locations in last three years. And one thing that we learned after our first remote location that we started was that when we seeded our new remote location with few people from the original location that hoped start, you know, the similar aspects of what glassware stands for and over core at those and values. And then, as we added, new people, they just can easily just transfer to them so that hope does in a big way. And then he moved to Chicago with the same idea and, of course, Brazil. Now with the same >> knowledge transfer culture transfer, >> it all makes it easy. Even you have few people seating from the original location that was court for us. >> Pop in actually started their first remote office in San Francisco, which has now become their headquarters. So she has a lot of experience. Everyone of scale er's customers globally. You know, we sell the engineer, so we're dealing with with our customers who are dealing with this problem all the time. And in addition to culture, one thing that seems to bubble up regularly is can do you know when they need a common tool set and where they can do their own thing. How do you, you know, balance that and where do you need a single source of truth that people can agree on? And again, where can people have different points of view? >> You're talking sing associates from code base to what could >> be whatever, Like in our case, it's yeah, if you're going to troubleshoot something, you know, where the logs, the truth in the logs, Are you gonna have a single source for that? But for other people, it could be the data that they're bringing in or how they analyze the business. But if you can be proactive about understanding, when is commonality of tools of approach, of philosophy, of data, whatever, when it's commonality going to be what we drive and when are we going to allow people to do their own thing? And if you can put that framework in place than people know when they have the latitude and when they got a snap to grit and you could move a lot more quickly and there's kind of a technical debt that isn't code based? It's more about this kind of stuff, right? It's tool based its process and culture based. And if you can be more proactive about avoiding that debt, then you're gonna move more quickly. >> Videoconferencing. Very, very important. You should be able to jump on a video Constance very easily to be able to connect with someone driving just a phone calls all of these face time, different areas of face time Technology plays a big role >> technology. This is This is a modern management challenge for the new way to leave because it used to be just outsource. Here's the specs member, the old P. R. D S and M R D's. There's the specs, and you just kind of build it. Now it's much more collaborative to your point. There's really product and engineering going on, and it's gotta be. It's evolving. This is a key new ingredient >> because the expectation on the quality of product is so much more higher than competition is so much more. >> And when you know these engineers build in a lot of cases, they have to operate it now. So, like you say, whether it's a free service to a consumer, Aurens in enterprise, the expectation is perfect. No downtime, no hiccups >> and the reward incentives now become a big part of this now. New way of doing things. So I gotta ask the natural question. What's the reward system? Because Google really kind of pioneered the idea of a host 20% of your time work on your own project. That was about a decade or so ago. Now it's evolved beyond that to free lunches and all these other perks, but this has got to appeal to the human being behind it. What are some of the reward mechanisms? You guys see his management that's that's helpful in growing, nurturing and scaling up engineering organizations. >> Well, engineers are human, and as every human autonomy is critical for any aspects of moderation. And that's what please the core level. Then, of course, lunches, matter and other perks and benefits matter. Snacks of pours. Good coffee machine definitely is the core of it, but autonomy of what you want to do and is that the line. But what we want or what we are trying to deliver, and the aspect and the information of I did and rolled this out, what was the impact of it? That new should go back to that engineer who built that. So threading it through to the end and from the start is its very core for everybody to know because I want to know what I'm as I'm going every day. How is it helping >> and we really try. I personally try Thio. Make sure that each human on the team, regardless of their function, that we understand their potential and their career aspirations because a lot of times the the normal ladder, whatever that lander is, might not be right for every person. And people can pivot and use their skills in very, very different ways, and we need to invest in their ability to try new things. If it doesn't work out, let him come back. So you know, we try to spend time as a company for engineers not just in our company, but beyond. To really help them build out their own career, build out their own brands. Engineers more and more could be, you know, on TV shows and doing blog's and building out their own personal brand in their point of view. And that gives them impact. That goes beyond the one piece of code that they're writing for a company in a given day or a week. >> J. P you guys went public stock options. All these things going on as well. Your thoughts? Yeah, >> I just came back from a trip to my newest Dev center in Hyderabad, India. It's funny. I had sessions with every team over there. The number one topic was full >> s >> so excited about food. So there is something primal about food. Having said that, I think, uh, praise and recognition the age old things. They matter so much. That's what I've seen You acknowledge what somebody has done and kind of feedback to elect partner was saying, The impact that it creates, you know, it's it's a lot more fulfilling than monetary incentives. Not that they're not useful. Occasionally they are. But I think repeating that on doing it more often creates a sense off. Okay, here's what we can accomplish as a team. It is how I can contribute to it, and that creates a normal sense of purpose. >> Austin, you guys talked about tools of commonality is kind of key. It's always gonna be debates about which tools, much codes, languages to use, encoding, etcetera. But this brings up the notion of application development as you get continuous development. This is the operating model for modern engineering. What's the state of the art? What do you guys seeing as a best practice as managers to keep the machinery humming and moving along? And what what's on the horizon? What's next? >> Yeah, in my view, I would just say So what's humming and what state of the art I think I is core thio. Most of the systems and applications, the, uh, the core aspect of pretty much every company as you see, and that's the buzz word, even in Silicon Valley for the right reasons, is how we have built our platforms, insistence and ideas. But now let's make it smarter, and every company now has a lot of data. We are swimming in data, but it's very important that we can pick and pull the the core insides from that data to then power the same product and same system to make it more smarter, right? The whole goal for us ourselves is where they're making our platform or smarter, with the goal of making it more personalized and making sure that as users are navigating a project, pages they are seeing more personalized information so that they're not wasting their time there. We can make faster decisions in more rich data set, which is very catered towards them. So smart, so building that intelligence is core. >> And with continues, integration comes, continues risk. All right, so no risk, no reward. And so we live in an era of freemium. Free service is so you know why not take the risk? You don't have to do an A B test. You got digital. You do a B, C D and use all kinds of analytics. So this is actually a creative opportunity for engineering as they get to the front lines you mentioned earlier getting part of the empowerment. How is the risk taking changing the management? >> You know, I deal with class off users were willing to pay money, so I don't know if I can talk a lot about the freedom aspect of the problem. But now there's always desire for new functionality. If you want it, otherwise you don't want it. There's a lot of risk of worsens that's still floating around, especially in the interprets there today. On it is a big tension that you have to deal with. If you're not careful, then you can introduce problems on believing you're operating on the cloud and you're servicing thousands of customers. A small change can bring down the entire ecosystem, so you'll take it very seriously. You're helping others run their business, and that means you had invest in the right tools and processes. >> So you guys are actually Freemium business model, but still engineers. I got a test that they want to take the rhythms. So is it a cloud sand boxing? How is the risk taking managed? How you guys encouraging risk without having people hurt? You don't >> wantto overburden engineers to the point. They feel stifled and they cannot do anything. So there is a right balance. So you know, there are many techniques we follow the. For example, we roll out the software, tow US staging environment so customers can play around and make sure things are not breaking for their comfort more so than for us. But it is an important part of the equation, and then internally, you have to invest a lot of planning. Appropriately, there are the high risk content on the features, and then there are the low risk ones. You want to think about experimentation frameworks in no way be testing and so on and more importantly, about automation and testing. I don't think if a customer logs a bug and finds the problem, they don't want to see it one more time. Ever really have to make sure that those things don't happen when you're investing robust automation around testing processes because there isn't enough time for the complexity of these applications for destiny thing, man, >> this whale automation with cloud comes in containers kubernetes. All of >> those things, you know you heard will enable engineers with the technology said so that they contested scale. You have to provide access to production like data because you have to worry about no privacy, security and all those aspects. But at the same time, they need to have access to the variety off configurations that are out there so that they contested meaningful so to invest in all of those things. >> But I'll take it back to kind of where we started. This, which is the human factor with continuous delivery, is this continuous risk, and it doesn't matter if this engineer is supporting a free consumer application or the highest end of enterprise. When something goes wrong, this, their stress level goes through the roof and you know, how can we equipped? These people, too, solve problems in real time to have that visibility, to have whatever tool said or date or whatever they need? Because at the end of the day, a bad day for an engineer is a day when something is breaking and they're the ones that have to stay up all night and fix it and a good day for an engineer. A human being is the day they get to go home and have dinner with the family or not be woken up in the night. And there is >> for kite surfing or whatever, you >> know, whatever they dio, there's, you know, there is truly a human way. We think about engineers and engineers get up every day, and they want to change the world and they want to make an impact. And thank God we have, you know, teams of engineers that do that for all of us, and they're human beings, and there's a level of continuous stress that we've injected into their lives every day and to the extent that we, as companies and managers and leaders, can help take some of that burden off of them. The world becomes >> the whole being seeing the results of their work to is rewarding as well. >> Scaler does a lot of stuff there, so I have to call that are at the same time in a lot of very good nuggets, J P. Brother. But one more thing that has shifted in terms of how process of practice works is more of more. Engineers now participate very early on in product development is in the day. They try to understand what is the context and why are we doing. And we do a lot of users research to understand that that process, so that they have full context, that they are building in developing eso they're more of a partner now and not an afterthought. >> Think agile And Dev ops to me has proven that the notion of silos and waterfall practices has democratizing flatten. The organization's out where interdisciplinary crossovers are happening. >> Oh, yes, >> and this has been an interesting art of management is encouraging the right person that crust over the right line was you give people little taste, but sometimes they may not belong there kind of called herding cats in the old days. But now it's more of managing kind of interests and growth there. >> That original Dev ops model, though if you have anybody read the Phoenix project like years ago, but it it was really about bringing different points of view. It's a diversity thing. It's bringing different points of view around the table before the first line. It is written so that you're thinking about every angle on the problem and on the ongoing operation of whatever you're building >> Well, it's all about diversity and inclusion and diversity. I was with states, inclusion and diversity, diversity, inclusion Because male and females are involved. We have two females in tech here. This has been a discussion. We still don't have the numbers up to the senior levels within engineering in general. What has to happen to move the needle for women in tech and or inclusionary people involved in engineering to get the right perspective? What's what's >> not? Start with J P because he's actually a huge champion, and without the men involved, we don't have a solutions, >> inclusion and diversity, J. P your thoughts on this was super important. >> Yeah, Number one is recognition. I was stealing Christine yesterday. I just came back from India. That's like told you I took a picture there of my management team. Came back here, looked at it. There is no female, No right, it's crazy. I mean, it's not that we're not trying on gum it. We had the same problem and we started our center in 2015 right? There was a group picture off the team. There was like they were like two women on the thing. We put a lot of effort into it on. Two years later, a significant chunk of the organization has got women embedded in the team's came because we tried. We went out. Look, for those who are good in this area is not that we compromised on the qualifications. It's really about putting some energy in tow, getting the right resumes and then looking at it. The other thing. We're also doing his cultivation. You have to go to the grassroots because there are just enough women engineers. It's unfortunate, for whatever reasons, they're not taking up that professional military enough studies written on it So last two years we weigh, have conducted something called rails. Girls in India, 150 school age children, Women. I mean, girls come in and then we have supported them, run their classes, hold a class. And that helps, you know, even if 10% off them, you know, choose to take up this profession. It's gonna be a big boost. And we have to do a lot more of those in my opinion. >> Europe T rex President Leading Engineering. What's your view? >> Well, I'll say this, you know, for the people who are participating in helping drive this mission just like J. P. I say thank you, especially for men who are participating in it. We cannot do this without you, but for all the people who, if they're not participate in participating in helping drive this mission, I have all share this one data, uh, one of the initiative that glass or drives this gender pay gap, which is also an outcome off, not having diverse outlook at all levels into in the workplace. And we in our economic research team. They did a study and they shared a projection off when will be closed. The gender pay gap. It's 2017. That's depressing. So for for me, when I hear people who say you know, they, they don't want to participate or they don't think this is the right approach of solving for diversity in workplace, I say Okay, but that's not the reason for you to not participate and stay out. If it join it, join it in your own way. But it's only when l offers. Can I see it as a real problem and participate just like Gibby, as you said grassroot level as well as outside One of the example that I told my team when they say, You know, we don't want to drop the bar, the quality bar, I say Sure, don't drive it, but don't drop it. But if you have two candidates, one with a diverse background, Um, who who might be after cable to the same job in 2 to 3 months over someone who slam dunk today, let's invest in the person who is bringing the diverse background for 2 to 3 months and then make them successful. That's not dropping the bar that's still supporting and investing in helping diversity. >> My good friend and heat you saw at IBM. They put out a survey said Diversity, inclusion, diversity. First companies have a bit of advantage, so the investment is so much lower in the bars, more bringing perspective because if we tell about software here has male and female and that's being 17% female, it's >> not just, you know, I had two things to the comments, all of which I agree with one. It's not just a pipeline problem. It is a a culture problem where people have to feel welcome and it has to be a comfortable environment, and they have to believe that their diverse point of view matters and doesn't matter if they're men or women. But there are lots of times when we all make it hard for somebody with a different point of view to enter the conversation. So we have to do a better job of creating the culture, and secondly, there's a saying you have to see it to be it. We have to see people of diversity, gender and of every other type, cognitive diversity of all types at every level in the company. And, you know, we had the same thing, so I'm lucky enough to send a Fortune 500 public board. And I spend a lot of my time helping women and people of color and diversity get on public boards. But if you go back seven years ago, we were 14% women on public boards and it did not move and it did not move and it did not move and in one year popped over 20%. And that's before the loss. So you know, you make these linear projections we can with effort, yes, actually make >> a >> difference. It just takes a very concerted effort. And in this case, particularly for engineering and for leadership, it is making a concerted effort at every level, from board to CEO to executive team to all levels down. Making sure we have inclusion and diversity in >> this is a modern management challenge in the new way of leading managing >> this process. These things, This >> is the big challenge, folks, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate. Final question for you guys is what if you could summarize the new way to lead and his modern error from an engineering standpoint, building out of companies building along durable value creation with its company a product or service. What is the key keys to success >> as a leader >> as a leader has a new brand of leaders. >> I would say, You know, this lot goes into, I'm sure you need to know engineering and all the strategic aspect of your job. But the core aspect I feel, is as a leader, my success depends on the quality of relationships I'm building with my team and members that I work with. So that goes into the people aspect, the people connection that goes into it, >> J p. >> Absolutely People are are a big portion of the story. I also feel understanding the problem and driving for results. You know, it's not just about building something. It's about building for a purpose. What is it that you're you're tryingto accomplish and continuing to find that? And working with the teams is so critical for success, especially in a fast moving in Christine. >> Yeah, I agree. It is all about the people, and I think old and new. This hasn't changed. People need to feel like they belong and they're being appreciated, and they're being heard >> scaler. Glass door Copa software. You guys do a great work. Thanks for sharing the engineering inputs, Thio. Leading successful companies. >> Thank you for >> your leadership. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm shot for the Q. Thanks for watching. >> Well.

>> from New York City. It's the cue covering automation anywhere. Imagine, brought to you by automation anywhere you >> were in midtown Manhattan, at the automation anywhere. Imagine Crawford's twenty nineteen really psyched to be here. Fifteen hundred people talking about our P A. But really, the Rp story is much more than just robotic process. Automation is really a new way to work, which we hear about all over the place and really reimagining what this technology can do. We're excited to have our next guest. She's Shelly Kramer, an analyst and partner for feature research. Shelley, great to see you. >> Great to see you, too. And you got it. >> I got a right. >> You got it. >> Well, you're a very busy lady. Got all kinds of stuff going on, which is what we like. So first off, just kind of Have you been here before? General impressions of the show. >> This is my first, Uh, this is my first, uh, automation anywhere event. And so it's exciting. I write a lot about our PPA and about the future of work and work force transformation. So it's great to be >> here. Yeah. And you just wrote not a super uplifting article linked in about, you know, employee dissatisfaction and some of the issues with employee retention. We talked before. We turn the cameras on about things like calling him human resource is, you know, and human capital there, they're people. And I thought my here really touched on it. Well, in the keynote today that this is not a rip and replace technology for people. This is a tool to help us do our jobs better, just like our laptops and our mobile phones and our application. So are you excited about the opportunity? See, it is this transformative. >> I do see this transformative. And I think that before you talk about what we talked about, the technology that we have to talk about people and Simpson and I'm pulling this out of my memory banks. So on average, about eighty two percent of employees within any organization are disengaged. OK, eighty two percent. >> So the ping pong tables and the tables are not doing it. >> And so when you think about it and engaged workforce are people who wake up in the morning or whatever it is, they go to work and who are excited about what they're doing excited about their company. They're working for love, the culture that they're working within. I love all those things that they're doing. And so when you realize that eighty two percent of people are disengaged, that's problematic. Right then, you're talking about the toughest talent acquisition markets that we've had in a really long time. So we're all fighting for top talent, not just top tech talent but any kind of talent. And so focusing on how we can make the workforce better and create better cultures and put systems and processes in place that can make people do their jobs more efficiently, more productively and actually like them. That's to me. That's the beginning of where we get to this technology piece and what our P a Khun Dio How? Aye aye plays a role in there and how you can. How employees can partner you think of technology as a partner, as opposed to worrying about technology replacing them. So I think it's an exciting time in the workforce, and when you think about it that way, it makes a lot of sense. >> Do you think the difference in kind of the expectations that people have when they Goto work to be engaged as a function of the millennials who are looking for something that's more mission lead. Is it a function of just the competition? It's so robust that before people could get away with having, you know, maybe a less compelling work experience. What do you think is driving? The changer hasn't changed, and maybe now we're just paying more attention to it. >> You know, I think it's changed in a little bit. I think that you and I are old enough that when we were coming of age and we were working our way up the corporate ladder, you know, you kind of sold a little bit of your soul to the company store. No matter. I mean, I gripped in advertising, right, and, you know, I work crazy hours, and I loved it. But I never questioned that there were dues that I had to pay, and that's what you think. And I think that people don't necessarily expect the world on a platter. But I think especially the more skilled you are, whether it's a knowledge of tack or whatever it is in today's market, I think that ueno and again it could be someone my age. It could be someone that's twenty five. It could be someone that's forty. I can find something else. So minute, this isn't doing it for me, right? I can go find something else right now. That said, there are also people who are punching a clock. You know what I'm saying? And I don't mean ship workers. Necessarily. As much as I need to pay the mortgage, I need to get my kid's bed. You know, I don't love this job. Maybe it's a path to something. One of my daughters works for an insurance company. She has a very non glamorous job. She doesn't love it, but she knows she has to do it for X amount of time before she can be considered for this different promotion. And she is watching the clock on literally. I'm getting to that milestone and asking for her promotion. And if that doesn't happen, she'LL leave. So so I think that when you can, people don't feel like they need to be stuck, right? So I think that way. As a CZ leaders and his executives in the workforce, I think you always have to be mindful about what the work environment that you're creating is and focus on. How do we keep how do we get people? And how do we build the value props that we used when we entice them to say yes to our offer? How do we get them to stay? >> S o many things there, But But, you know, what things you just mentioned is is I don't think they accept it like we did. Maybe when we're coming up, which is, you know, you hire somebody and you hire them for the act tributes that they're bringing in the organization than it used to be. Then you give him the employee rulebook and you basically squash, you know, kind of all the individual creativity and ingenuity and enthusiasm, which is why you hired him in the first place. And we don't see that as much anymore. But at the same token, you know, not everyone's worried about robots taken their job at the same time. There's so many unfulfilled Rex out there. And as you said, it's the most competitive labor market out there. How our employers supposed to kind of square that circle because they need to bring the automation they want to keep the people happy. It's a hyper competitive market, and they need mission. But, you know, we gotta pay the bills and get the products out. >> I think that So I think that we can never forget that people that work for our companies need to pay the bills too. Right? So when you can give them something that they could be excited about, Tio dio that helps. Right? But it just kind of like I'm thinking back Teo, uh, presentation and I can't remember his name. But the V p of product did a presentation about today on a loan mortgage loan application. Okay, that has to be like one of the most boring things, right? If you're in that mortgage loan processing, do this. Do this. Do this villain this spreadsheet love about, By the way, I hate creating spreadsheets. I just want to look at a finished one. But anyway, it was so cool to just look at this, and I shot a video of it, shared it on Twitter. If you want to see what I'm talking about, but which is so cool that you can do this and do this and do this and you know you create this process. And in no time the technology has done all the work and all the calculations, and you've got a recommendation approved, not approved. And so if you're in the mortgage loan business, way to think about that leased, the way that I think to think about it is, doesn't mean that your job is going to go away. It's just like my daughter doing that not very exciting job that she's doing. If automation could fuel some of the mundane, repeatable, banal tasks so that she could focus on the other part of the equation where it's more interesting and more exciting, I think then that's really the value equation there. But I think as I think, what businesses have todo is be transparent and very honest with their employees and tell them, you know, this is our This is why we're doing this. This is what our means, and this is how it's going to add value. It we're not doing this to necessarily replace humans. This is so that we can make this work better, efficient more, you know. And I think that you know, I'll step back and say for a personal example. We went through a process last year where we evaluated all of our business processes, and we looked at how much time our employees were spending sweet track time doing certain tasks. And then we were realizing, you know, the value there. We were actually paying too much in terms of the time, investment or tasks that didn't make sense to. Then we set out integrating automation into our processes, and it was it was a big project, right? And people were kind of worried, you know, and they were kind of worried about it. But one of the things that way told them early on with, like, This is not so that we don't have work for you. This is so that we can make what it is you're doing more efficient and you could do things you like better, >> right? Right. >> And so and that has happened and way didn't lose any of our team. And a lot of those task that they were doing are now automated. They're doing stuff that they like more. So I think that I think that's really the challenge for businesses. Two is the messaging right and then involving your teams in the process, appointment of any kind of >> technology. I think it's just the soul crushing. You know, expression is so it's so valid for for these types of activities. And I think again may hear had a great stat. Four percent of US jobs required a medium level of creativity, which you know people want to get out from under that. But if we can define it as a tool and is a thinking like personal digital assistants, my body will. That used to be just my palm three was my p d. A. Right wow how no. One No one was threatened by the Palm taking the job away. So I think you know, you're right. If we can put it in the context of it's just another tool that's just gonna help you get your job done. That's a very different way to frame the problem versus kind of just ripping replace narrative, which we hear kind of over and over again. >> Well, and I think it also goes beyond Jeff. It's goes beyond, and I think that employees at every level have to understand this. It goes beyond just helping you get your job done. It really is about, you know, cos that survived today and tomorrow are the companies who transformed. And, you know, we talk a lot about digital transformation. And you know, I'm out there on the front lines all day, every day, and I can promise you there are many, many companies who are far from really understanding and embracing this and understanding what it takes from a technology standpoint and the value, that data ad and how to use that data and and the impact that that has on customer experience and all that sort of thing. So So I think it's really is about much more than this will make your jobs suck less >> right, right, Right. >> I think it's about this is how our company stay successful. This is how you helped make your job in the role you play within our organization, what you want it to be, right? And I think that you could probably telling, you know, I've been marketing because I'm always thinking about you know how I know how you spend something and I don't mean in a spin like a PR way, but I think we all have to step back and think about it in terms of the whole equation. And there are a whole lot of companies that don't exist anymore, right? You know whether you're talking about the financial services sector and you know and every business everywhere is being disrupted. I told this story. I was I was talking with me here earlier this morning and I was telling him a story about how my husband, I just bought a new car and we expected to get a loan for that car from our community. It's not a community from our our local bank local. Our local bank has been recently purchased by a bigger bank in the last couple of years, but we run all of our corporate money. I mean, everything that we've ever done is here in this way. You know your spell. ITA loan application. No problem. Give us an interest rate. No problem. But they made every part. My husband I vote travel a lot for business, and they're every part of the process required us to be somewhere together to have an official closing. To do this, to do that and it was just like way could never purchased this car because they were making it so difficult for us. So we enter death talking with the car dealer who said I'm not God. We can fix you up, financed it through their banking partner, which is a huge national bank approved in five minutes. Loan documents in five minutes. Hey, come on out. You sign this tomorrow? He consigned this when he gets, you know. And when I talked to my bank after the transaction, they said, Here's the deal. I wanted to do business with you. But when you make it difficult for a customer to give you their money, they're not gonna hesitate to give somebody else there money, Right? So So I think the banking industry is one example of the these processes that air so cumbersome that in some ways can be automated, but it just it doesn't make sense. And customers today you and I are impatient people as our people younger than we are way. No, there has to be a better way. An analogy could give us a better >> win it right, And, you know, they could use different data sets. And I mean, I've bought himself recently, and you just push the button on the phone and it takes a minute. The wheel spins and then your approved right and you're done if you're done, and it's it's a completely different experience. But the part about the digital transformation I want to follow because it came up today where a lot of times people are the integration point between these systems very similar to the example you just used and you can't digitally transform. If all these automated systems ultimately have the bottleneck through some person to take this piece Veda and stick it over there, right? So it's it's absolutely critical to get those people out of the way, right? So as you look forward twenty nineteen, what are some of the big trends beyond our P A and kind of personal digital assistants not called palm, uh, that you're seeing and that you're excited about? >> Well, I think that, you know, it's hard not to be excited about our p A. Just simply because of, you know, it's predicted to be a one point nine billion this year and to almost double by twenty twenty one. I mean, it makes sense that companies like automation anywhere doubling down on that right. It also makes sense that gigantic companies like IBM and Jo Lloyd and you know why. I mean, you >> know, hearing for >> all here, right? There's a reason for that, right? Because IBM customers want this and Microsoft's customers want this. So So I think that in general I think that technology is fueling our world. Our personal lives are business world, and I think that probably one of the biggest things that I pay attention to to that we pay attention to is that technology alone isn't the answer. It's the partnership of human beings and their skill sets and capabilities and data and automation and artificial intelligence and all those things. So I think that I think that it's an incredibly exciting time. It's kind of like, you know, you you go back to the video that we saw this morning in the bit about the Internet, and I don't know if you remember this. I don't know, probably. I don't know how much older I am than you, but, you know, I remember that Internet machine and wow, this is like I could send an email, you know? And then when you think about right how and those comments, You know that Matt Lauer and Katie Couric we're making it like that weren't down comments we didn't didn't know, right? Know the impact Internet could have would have, you know. And so I think the same is true of this kind of technology today. This this next generation of technology. So there's not just one thing I'm interested. I'm interested in Element. >> Gotta keep learning right because way have a hard time with were very linear and everything is growing exponentially. So you got a got to be willing. Teo learned the next thing because it's right around the corner, >> and I think that's so key. That's that's a great rap. I think that people who are happiest today are people who actually love change and who love learning. And I would say I would posit that most that those air not inherently things that people trades that people possess. I'm lucky because I do. You see what I'm saying? I think it's >> an interesting question, whether that's inherent. If there's just people that liked the learning, our curious all the time, and that and then they got to stick in the muds and Candice stick in the muds, change your attitude and become learners again. >> Maybe they won't. I mean, you know, I think that they're I do think that there are are people who are wired to like change and two are curious and who loved learning. And I think there are a whole bunch of people who are not. And I would I truly believe that for success in today's world and moving forward for young people and not so young people, you better get there if that's not your deal, because I don't think that I did it. And I have stumbled across conversations of people having like, you know, that's not gonna happen, you know? So I don't have to worry about it because I'm gonna be outta here by then. Or and you know what? There are a whole bunch of people that have that mindset, and that's a okay, but especially for young people making their way, >> they okay mindset. But it's not the fact that that's the problem. It's it's happening now. I mean, the future is here, and it's happening at a faster pace. Well, Shelley, we could go on and on and on, but we're going to leave it there. And I appreciate you taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Absolutely. My pleasure. >> All right. She Shelly, I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Where? Automation anywhere. Imagine in Midtown Manhattan. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hello and welcome to this special cube conversation here in Palo Alto California cube headquarters I'm Jennifer echoes the cube our guest here is Megan Eisenberg CMO of a new hot company called trip actions formerly the CMO at MongoDB before that taki sign we've known each other some advisory boards great to see you yes great to see you as well so exciting new opportunity for you at trip actions just transitioned from MongoDB which by the way had great earnings they did what was the big secret to Mongo DB z earnings tell us well it's fresh and I think they're executing and their growth is amazing they're bringing their costs down I mean they're they've got product market fit their developers love them and so I'm proud and not surprised you're there for four years yeah transformed their go-to market so that fruits coming off the tree yes yeah it's exciting to see the you know process people technology all coming together and seeing them scale and do so well in the markets yes you know being here in 20 years living in California Palo Alto you see the rocket ships the ones that flame out the ones that make it and there's a pattern right when you start to see companies that are attracting talent ones that have pedigree VCS involved yeah raising the kind of rounds in a smart way where there's traction product market fit you kind of take special notice and one of the companies that you're now working for trip actions yes seems to have the parameters so it's off the pad it's going up its orbit or taking off you guys have really growing you got a new round of funding one hundred fifty million dollars yes unique application in a market that is waiting to be disrupted yes travel about company you work for transactions trip actions is a fast growing business travel platform we service customers like we work slack zoom box and we're growing we're adding 200 customers a month and it's amazing just to see these fast-growing companies right when they hit product market fit I think the keys are they've gotten a massive addressable market which we have 800 billion online travel they're solving a pain and they're disrupting a legacy the legacy providers that are out there we're three and a half years old and we are you know really focused on the customer experience giving you the choice that you want when you book making it easy down to six minutes not an hour to book something and we've got 24/7 support which not many can compete with you know it's interesting you know I look at these different ways of innovation especially SAS and mobile apps you know chapter one of this wave great economics yeah and once you get that unit economics visibility say great SAS efficacious happened but now we're kind of in a chapter two I think you guys kind of fit into this chapter to where it's not just SAS cuz you know we've seen travel sites get out there you book travel it's chapter two of SAS is about personalization you see machine learning you got cloud economics new ventures are coming out of the woodwork where you could take a unique idea innovate on it and disrupt a category that seems to be what you guys are doing talk about this new dynamic because this is not just another travel app when you guys are doing gets a unique angle on this applying some tech with the Corpse talked about that this chapter to kind of assess business I think when I think about chapter 2 I think about all the data that's out there I think about the machine learning I think about how we understand the user and personalize everything to them to make it frictionless and these apps that I love on my phone are because they they know what I want before I want it and I just took a trip to Dallas this week and the app knew I needed to check in it was one click told me my flight was delayed gave me options checked me in for my hotel I mean it was just amazing experience that I haven't seen before and it's really if you think about that that business travel trip there's 40 steps you have to do along the way there's got to be a way to make it easier because all we want to do is get to the business meeting and get back we don't want to deal with weather we don't want to deal with Hotel issues or flight changes and our app is specific to when you look at it you've got a chat 24/7 and someone's taking care of you that concierge service and we can do that because the amount of data we're looking at we're learning from it and we make it easier for travel manager half the people go rogue and don't even book through their travel solution it's because it's not tailored to them so this is the thing I want to get it so you guys aren't like a consumer app per se you have a specific unique target audience on this opportunity its travel management I'm I'm gonna date myself but back when I broke into the business they would have comes like Thomas Cook would handle all the travel for youlet Packard when I worked there in the 80s and you had these companies I had these contracts and they would do all the travel for the employees yes today it's hard to find that those solutions out there yes I would say it's hard to find one that you love and trip Actions has designed something that our travelers love and it is it's for business travel it's for your business trips it's taking care of your air your hotel your car your rail whatever you need and making sure that you can focus on the trip focus on getting there and not just the horrible experience we've all had it you travel a lot I traveled certainly back and forth to the East Coast and to take those problems away so I can focus on my business is what it's so just just look at this right so you guys are off to unicorn the funding great valuation growing like crazy got employees so people looking for jobs because they're hiring probably yeah but you're targeting not consumers to download the app it's for businesses that want to have company policies and take all that pressure off yes of the low so as a user can't buy myself can't just use the app or get I know you can Nano that's the the the whole thing is that as a user there's three things we're providing to one inventory and choice so you go and you know all the options you get the flight you want it's very clear and art we have a new storefront where it shows you what's in policy what's not so we've got that its ease of use it's booking quickly nobody wants to waste time dealing with this stuff right you want to go in booked quickly and then when you're on the trip you need 24/7 support because things go wrong airline travel gets cancelled weather happens you need to change something in your trip and so yes the user has the app on their phone can book it can you do it fast and can get support if they need it so stand alone usually can just use it as a consumer app but when you combine with business that's the magic that you guys see is that the opportunity yes I should say as a consumer as a business traveler so you're doing it through your company so I'm getting reimbursed for the companies the company is your customer yes the company's our customer is the traveler yes okay got it so if we want to have a travel desk in our company which we don't have yet yes it would we would sign up as a company and then all your employees would have the ease of use to book travel so what happens what's the sum of the numbers in terms of customers you have said 200 month-over-month yes we're over 1500 customers we're adding 200 a month we've got some significant growth it's amazing to see product market and the cost of the solution tell people $25 a booking and there's no add-on costs after that if you need to make as many changes as you need because of the trip calls on it you do it so basically per transaction yes well Little Feat one of our dollars yes okay so how do you guys see this growing for the company what's the some of the initiatives you guys are doing a new app yes mo what's what's the plan it's a massive market 800 billion right and we've only just started we've got a lot of customers but we've got many more to go after we are international so we have offices around the world we have an Amsterdam office we've got customers travelling all over so we're you know continuing to deliver on that experience and bringing on more customers we just on-boarded we were ten thousand travelers and will continue to onboard more and more so as head of marketing what's the current staff you have openings you mentioned yet some some some open recs yes yes hi are you gonna build out I've got 20 open Rex on the website so I'm hiring in all functions we're growing that fast and what's the marketing strategy what's your plan can you give it a little teaser on yes thinking core positioning go to market what are some of the things you're thinking about building out marketing CloudStack kind of thing what's what's going on all of these things my three top focuses are one marketing sales systems making sure we have that mark tech stack and that partnership with the sales tech stack second thing is marketing sales alignment that closed-loop we're building we're building pipeline making sure when people come in there's a perfect partnership to service what they need and then our our brand and messaging and it's the phase I love in these companies it's really building and it's the people process and technology to do that in the core positioning is what customer service being the most user-friendly what's the core position we're definitely focused on the traveler I would say we're we're balancing customer experience in making sure we get that adoption but also for the travel managers making sure that they can administer the solution and they get the adoption and we align the ascent in the incentives between the traveler and the travel manager and customer profile what small munis I business to large enterprise we have SMB and we're going all the way up to enterprise yes has it been much of a challenge out there in the business travel side I'm just don't know that's why I'm asking is like because we don't have one I can see our r-cube team having travel challenge we always do no centralizing that making that available but it'd have to be easier is it hard to get is there a lot of business travel firms out there is what are some of the challenges that you guys are going after there well I I think what matters is one picking the solution and being able to implement it quickly we have customers implementing in a week right it's understanding how we load your policies get you on board get your cut you're you're really your employees traveling and so it's pretty fast onboarding and we're able to tailor solutions to what people need what are some of the policies that are typical that might be out there that people like yeah so maybe for hotels you may have New York and your your policy is $500 a night what the I would say a normal typical behavior would someone would book it at $4.99 they go all the way up to the limit we've actually aligned our incentives with the travel managers and the employees and that if you save your company money you save and get rewards back so let's say you book it for 400 that $100 savings $30 goes back to the employee and rewards they can get an Amazon card donate to Cherry charity whatever they'd like to kind of act like an owner cuz they get a kickback yes that's the dot so that's how you an interest adoption yes what other adoption concerns you guys building around with the software and or programs to make it easy to use and we're constantly thinking about the experience we want to make sure just I mean I think about what I used to drive somewhere I'd pull out a map and map it out and then I got lucky and you could do MapQuest and now you have ways we are that ways experience when you're traveling we're thinking about everything you need to do that customer when they leave their front door all the way to the trip all the things that can hang them up along the way we're trying to remove that friction that's a very example I mean Waze is a great service yes these Google Maps or even Apple Maps ways everyone goes to backed away yes yeah I don't I mean ways did cause a lot of Street congestion the back streets of Palo Alto we're gonna expedite our travelers well it's a great utility new company what what attracted you to the opportunity when was some of the because you had a kid going over there MongoDB what it was the yeah motivation to come over to the hot startup yeah you know I love disruptive companies I love massive addressable markets good investors and a awesome mission that I can get behind you know I'm a mom of three kids and I did a lot of travel I'm your typical road warrior and I wanted to get rid of the pain of travel and the booking systems that existed before trip actions and so I was drawn to the team the market and the product that's awesome well you've been a great CMO your career has been phenomenal of great success as a CPM mother of three you know the challenges of juggling all this life is short you got to be using these apps to make sure you get on the right plane I mean I know I'm always getting back for my son's lacrosse game or yes event at school this is these are like it's like ways it's not necessary in the travel portfolio but it's a dynamic that the users care about this is the kind of thing that you guys are thinking about is that right yeah definitely I mean I always think about my mom when she worked in having three daughters and I work and have three daughters I feel like I can do so much more I've got door - I've got urban sitter I've got ways I've got Google Calendar I've got trip actions right I've got all these technologies that allow me to do more and not focus on things that are not that productive and I have no value add on it just makes me more efficient and productive how about some of the tech before we get in some of the industry questions I want to talk about some of the advantages on the tech side is there any machine learning involved what's some what's not what's some of the secret sauce and the app yeah definitely we're constantly learning our users preferences so when you go in we start to learn what you what hotels you're gonna select what where do you like to be near the office do you like to be near downtown we're looking at your flights do aisle window nobody wants middle yes but we're we're learning about your behaviors and we can predict pretty closely one if you're gonna book and two what you're gonna book and as we continue learning you that's why we make you more efficient that's why we can do it in six minutes instead of an hour that's awesome so Megan a lot of things going on you've been a progressive marker you love Terry's tech savvy you've done a lot of implementations but we're in a sea change now where you know people that think differently they gonna think okay I need to be on an app for your case with with business travel it's real policies there so you want to also make it good for the user experience again people centric this personalization has been kind of a cutting edge concept now in this chapter to a lot of CMOS are either they're they're not are trying to get there what are you finding in the industry these days that's a best practice to help people cross that bridge as they think they cracked the code on one side then realize wow it's a whole another chapter to go you know I think traditionally a lot of times we think we need we're aligning very much with sales and that matters that go to market marketing sales aligned but when it comes to products and a customer experience it's that alignment with marketing and the product and engineering team and really understanding the customer and what they want and listening and hearing and testing and and making sure we're partnering in those functions in terms of distribution getting the earned concept what's your thoughts on her and media yeah I mean I definitely think it's the direction right there's a ton of noise out there so you've got to be on topic you've got to understand what people care about you've got to hit them in the channel that they care about and very quick right is you don't have time nobody's gonna watch something that's 30 minutes long you get seconds and so part of the earned is making sure you're relevant you what they care about and they can find you and content big part of that for you guys huge part of it yes and understanding the influencers in the market who's talking about travel who's who is out there leading ahead you know leading in these areas that travel managers go and look to you know making sure we're in front of them and they get to see what we're delivering I like how you got the incentives of the employees to get kind of a line with the business I mean having that kind of the perks yes if you align with the company policies the reward could be a Starbucks card or vacation one more time oh whatever they the company want this is kind of the idea right yeah they kind of align the incentives and make the user experience both during travel and post travel successful that's right yes making sure that they are incented to go but they have a great experience okay if you explain the culture of the company to someone watching then maybe interested in using the app or buying you guys as a team what's the trip actions culture like if you had to describe it yeah I would say one we love travel too we are fast growing scaling and we're always raising the bar and so it's learning and it's moving fast but learning from it and continually to improve it's certainly about the user all of the users so not just the travel manager but our travelers themselves we love dogs if you ever come to the Palo Alto office we've got a lot of dogs we love our pups and just you know building something amazing and it's hard to be the employees gonna know that's a rocket ship so it's great get a hold on you got a run hard yes that's the right personality to handle the pace because you're hiring a lot of people and I think that's a part of the learning we need continual learning because we are scaling so fast you have to reinvent what we need to do next and not a lot of people have seen that type of scale and in order to do it you have to learn and help others learn and move fast well great to see you thanks for coming in and sharing the opportunity to give you the final plug for the company share what who you what positions you're hiring for what's your key hires what are you guys trying to do give a quick plug to the company yeah so I mean we've grown 5x and employees so we're hiring across the board from a marketing standpoint I'm hiring in content and product marketing I'm hiring designers I'm hiring technical I you know I love my marketing technology so we're building out our tech stack our website pretty much any function all right you heard it here trip actions so when you get the product visibility those unit economics as they say in the VC world they've got a rocket ship so congratulations keep it up yeah now you're in palo alto you can come visit us here anytime yes love to Meagen Eisenberg CMO trip access here inside the cube I'm John Ferrier thanks for watching you [Music]

>> Everyone. Welcome to a special cube conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, California Cube Studios. I'm John, four year host of the Q. We hear Atomic Wild, the CEO of Snapper out. Tom. Great to see you. You doing? I'm great. Thanks. You guys. You're launching Snapper. Snapper out. What is the company? What do you guys launching? Tell us. >> Well, quite simply stated were delivering a new class of network operating system for the cloud native era. Andrea Lee. What that does, is it. It delivers on the promise of time to service for applications. Always on security assurance and compliance. Andi greater operational efficiency, which is really one of the things that's been plaguing organizations tonight. >> How long is the company been around? This is the first public launch. A solution? Talk about the history real quick. >> So the company was founded in two thousand fifteen by some former operators from Apple. They built and ran Apple. Sort of biggest public facing data centers from the networking perspective on DH. You know, we've been working diligently on this. This is a new class of operating system that was really inspired by, you know, that their time building out those data centers on def. You, you kind of look back. NETWORKINGS not really had any major disruptive innovation in the last twenty five, thirty years. Ah, but back into the two thousand six, with the advent of a Ws and the and the new sort of big, hyper scaler tze, those guys started to realize that the network was something that was kind of getting in the way of their operational efficiency, of being able to automate and drive the network at scale on DSO. Our founders, you know, went through that whole sort of discovery process and things when when they were Apple on DH, you know, and the hyper scales drove the advent of this kind of white box disaggregated networking, separating the software operating system from the hardware and the reason behind that was really around game great gaining greater control because it's a legacy. Networking vendors were not delivering what was needed, and they needed to get more control on DSO. Are found us. You really saw the opportunity to say, Look, we think that there's a way of solving what an operator really needs and what an organization needs and one of the big challenges. There is howto networking operations. Teams collaborate with dev up stings because the devil teams are responsible for, you know, time to service for the application. And that's, you know, that's really the value of the organization. And so, you know, they set out to solve that problem to say, Well, hell, can we build a network operating system on what they realised was that you know what Deb Ops had done is embrace. It's a cloud. Native principles container ization, virtual ization, my crack services on DH. So what we've done is we've built from the ground up a newly architected network operating system that is a fully containerized micro services architecture that embeds coup Panetti's on DH allows the networking for this first time to be brought natively into the de bop store chain. Sonett ops teams can still sort of control and deploy the network and define policy and things. But now they don't have to worry about that is, you know, sort of annoying day today, tasks where, you know the Devil apps engineer is tryingto get an application on the network and, you know, they have to just do sort of some, you know, pretty trivial movies that changes things. And so, you know, in in doing that, what we also figured out was we could solve, you know, problems not just around the operational efficiencies and the time to service, but also a lot of security >> issues as well. So a lot of development going public with the product you mentioned. Cooper Netease, top of cloud. >> What are the >> big shifts in the industry that you guys air riding on because you have tail winds get cloud? Yeah, What is the way that you're on? Can you take a minute to explain some of the big shifts in the industry that's going, guys? >> Yeah, well, I I think there's several things. I think one of the biggest is that, you know, every single organization out there is looking nervously over its shoulder because we live in an age of very, very rapid disruption. It's kind of you know what call the Amazon affect. You know, those big, established companies who've been around for many, many years, who are being disrupted by, you know, Jason, you know, cos we're in adjacent spaces or new start ups coming in so everybody near realizes they need to use technology to their advantage, and they have to disrupt themselves Before, you know, they're they're disrupted. So? So that's one of the big drivers and And so time to service speed, efficiency are all sort of paramount. When you were in, you know, any C suite, you know, discussion, those air. Those are things that come up a ll the time from a technology perspective. We're seeing things, things changing significantly and how we use technology. And, you know, So everything is mobile. Ah, you know, we have the advent of I O t coming in, and so, you know, lots of services and moving to the edge. And so the data centers that were traditionally completely centralized and they'll sort of starting to distribute a little bit of well, eh? So you have this, you know, idea of sort of age data centers in H compute. So there's there's a lot of things, you know, changing and happening. And there's a lot of opportunity for us to deliver, you know, some strong value in this. >> So they obviously the cloud native trend you mentioned is big. That's driving the application market. De bobs you mentioned earlier huge we've seen years now in years of evidence of growth yet on dev ups. Okay, so now it's coming down into the network how? How our company's solving challenges for application developers that are in a devil's world because that seems to be the growth. And the sooner the pressure's coming from is that more requirements coming from the applications to the network. How are companies solving this problem? >> So, you know, So I think from the computer and storage side, things have moved along, you know, pretty, pretty, pretty swiftly eso, you know, as an application engineer. What? What you want is you want the infrastructure to service. You just You just want it to do what the application needs. Unfortunately, you know, traditionally, infrastructures has has been the other way around. You know, you deploy the infrastructure and you say, Okay, well, this is what the application could do within the constraints of the infrastructure and networking has, you know, just continued that idea. And so what you want to do is you want to take this idea of you we've talked before about infrastructure as code, you know. How do you make it? So is when an application engineer rights and application, he can actually regard the infrastructure as almost like a code library. And that's something that a lot of legacy vendors have talked about marketed to for some time. But the reality is-- >> It makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah, it does. It makes a ton of sense. But the reality is that all they could do was offer up some, you know, proprietary APIs and and programmatic interfaces. And the big challenge was the actual architecture of a network operating system was not designed in a way to actually enable that that infrastructure to react in the proper way by developing this containerized microservices architecture on by embedding communities and putting native DevOps tool chains you know inside the operating system. We actually can deliver on the promise of infrastructure as code. >> and this is what everyone wants. I gotta ask you, if everyone wants this and we hearing all around the Cuban all the events we go to clearly a requirement becoming table stakes. But what? What's been preventing people from doing this? >> Well, it's it's the architecture. I mean, if you look at, I call them Legacy Network architectures, but network architecture. Yeah, network operating system itself. The actual you know, the operating system that exists on the physical switch. That is where the problem starts, because that is designed as one big >> blob off >> coat. So all of the features Aaron there, they're all in the same place. They all sort of interact with each other, and it gives you reliability problems that give you innovation problems, because every time you change something, it has a knock on effect. If there's a bug and you have to fix that bug, you have to replace the entire blob. If you replace the entire blob, you have to down the switch or, you know, do some kind of complex patching. If there's a security vulnerability, you have to either differ like actually fixing their on DH, become non complaint or you have to down the switch. And you know we live in an age, As I said, where everything is on all the time, everything is mobile, you know, everybody wants their services right here right now. And the very you know, the very existence of a business depends on being able to deliver those applications all the time. So you can't bring network's down. So when when we've taken this micro services approach and we've containerized the actual infrastructure, you know, on the protocols and everything else, everything existed in its own container. Now, if there's a security vulnerability, we can replace just that container. If you're not using certain services on the operating system, you could kill those containers. And in the process, you reduce the threat surface off the the operating system in the switch. Where is in a legacy world with this monolithic blob, you can just you can turn off the features, but the code still there, the threat surfaces huge, and you're still vulnerable. So what's the >> solution to this and snap route? Fix this. What's the operational benefits? How do you guys play into fixing? The problems have been holding everyone back. >> Well, I think you know collaboration, I think is, you know, is one of the big benefits. You know, Quite frankly, I think there's, you know, there's there's been sort of tension in organizations. I think unfairly network operating operations teams have been, you know, treated as you know, holding things back or non responsive, whatever, anything that's completely unfair because actually, the problem is with the the vendor community. We haven't been delivering the tools that enable them to, you know, deliver the services they need. And so with you know, with our approach with this cloud native approach, we're actually able, sort of, you know, bring the net net tops world. You know, closer to Deb. Ops allow this Khun collaboration to happen on give you you know that the benefit ofthe I Abel sort of coordinated approach to delivering the application and the application is the value that the business delivers on. Biff, you know, if your application stops working, I mean, you know this in your personal life, right? You know, we use our phones and our devices. You try, use an application and it and it's not working. You're going to go and find a competitive. You're just going to go and say, Oh, well, you know, you saw download something else from the APP store on DH. So, you know, availability is a huge thing for businesses today on the network has been one of the most vulnerable pieces in terms of availability. Not because not necessarily because people are attacking it, but because it's so complex. And brittle that any time you change anything, things fall to pieces. And that's why people don't want to touch the network. And that is why we had the rise of the whole Sgn movement. The ESPN movement was on approach That said, we need to make the network more dynamic. And so, rather than addressing the actual operating system, put overlays over the top, create overlays and allow Deb ops teams to do what they need to do to deploy applications over the top of your fairly done plumbing. What we're saying is, look, we're going to simplify and claps. Thatyou don't need translation layers, and a PR is You don't need overlays. You don't need all of that stuff. We're now re architect in the operating system itself. So you, Khun Natively, address that and you know and directly, you know, control the policy that you need to deploy an application. >> Don, This is about modern infrastructure. It's what cloud is modernizing all parts of the value changing how people by consume, deploy, provide valued application known as you guys are part of that. How do people engage with snap route? So I say, Okay, this is the direction. I'm going. I'm going. I'm in cloud native and doing Cooper Netease. I got containing amusing microspheres betting my company's future on this direction. And a lot of people are. Yep. How doe I engage with you guys. And how do you fit into the equation? >> Right? So s so first of all, you know, initial engagement, you know, website linked in Facebook. You know, we're on all of those things. Weigh, You know, we're in customer trials right now. Invaders right now, you know, where was the launching the product? So you know where we'll be shipping off of your first commercial deployments. But as faras, you know how and where are the good? You know, the good opportunities to to deploy us on. Obviously, there are, you know, sort of new. Come, we're high growth companies who, you know, we're talking to who, you know, kind of wanna build off us as a base to start with. But if you already have ah, large investment in disorder deployed legacy equipment we can fit in quite nicely on. And we can still add a ton of value because one of the big problem areas, he's actually the top of rack, Switch the double racks, which is actually where Dev ops and Net ops come together. It's the first place where compute on the application touched the network on DH. This is where usually Annette, ops engineer, spends a lot of time doing, you know, fairly said of your trivial tasks to help applications, you get onto the network and you know, it's a big >> waste of conversion. You see, you think you're playing at the top Iraq switch, >> that is, that is a good place for for somebody to start to get a tremendous amount of value out of our product. You don't need to replace the entire network. You don't have to have us into end. You don't have to have us in the corps if you deploy us at the top of Rex, which so, you know, take a white box device. You know, deploy our operating system on top is very, very simple to do. The network engineer Khun very simply get that device up and running a little token. Figure itself. And then the Dev ops engineers can, you know, come in and say How would employ an application And I didn't need the network to do the following things, and the device will configure itself in that way. >> This is really two worlds coming together. Network operations and developer operations coming together. Yeah. How do you see that? Coming together and meshing together? Obviously, the top of Rex, which you mentioned? A key area where you get your kogel work. But as those cultural communities come together, you know, network operations and depth there, they're seeing benefits with each other. How are those worlds colliding? What's the benefit? What's it going to look like? And what's the opportunity? >> Yeah, well, I you know, I mean, first of all, I think that there's this misconception that these two over there, you know, these two types of organizations don't want to collaborate anything. That's a complete miss misconception. I mean, everybody wants to do the right thing they wanted, You know, their business is to grow ondas. I said earlier. I mean, I think the problem is that, you know, the vendor community is not delivered, as you know, a set of tools and products and capabilities that enable this collaboration. Andi, you know, that's what we're bringing to the table. But I do think you know that there's this This sort of, you know, this cross pollination, this this this ability to you don't have to learn each other's area of expertise. You don't suddenly have to become a networking expert. You know, the dead box engineer doesn't become a networking expert. Vice versa. But there is this, you know, there's there's this point of view, no collaboration and harmony that we can create where there was a lot of tension on DH, you know, and, you know, in fact, there was, you know, a lot of problems that way. Consider harmonize that and allow these organizations to just, you know, move forward with what really counts, which is growing the business. >> Tom, thanks for coming in. I appreciate your time. Original launch. Final question for you. Taking me displaying your background. Your previous roles in networking. We first met when you were at a PHP that he's being. Then why you attracted to snap Prada's as an opportunity on what's. >> Yeah, so, you know, I'm I've been in networking for over thirty years on and help me on DH. You know, network in security. Various roles, mostly in sort of product Rolls product management. You know, pride to snap her out. I was the general manager of the data center networking group HP on DH. You know, I got to do some, you know, fabulous things at HP. We have, you know, quite a ruber. And in other things there which have been hugely successful. So it was a lot of fun. But I came to the point with my career there, where I realized, you know, I I done, you know, many of the things that I wanted to do, and also, you know, most of the opportunities that were there in transforming and transitioning that company. And I wanted to get back to my start up roots on DH. You know, the, you know, long conversation. >> No data centers, these apple guys. >> Yeah, Andi, you know, And so I started talking Teo to snap Brown on, you know, they were asking my advice and things. And the one of the things that attracted me, as you say was it's a company built by operators for operators. You know, it's I, You know, I've never had the opportunity to be in a company founded by operators who just intrinsically know what the customer problem is on B because they've lived it. And And I think you really do have to live it to truly understand on DH. So, you know, that was a huge plus for me. I was really attracted, Teo, that Adam and Glenn, our founders, you know, really interesting great guys. But also there's this inflection point. There's this inflection point in the marking and market and everything to do with, you know, start ups and successful startups is not just having the right innovative technology, which I truly believe we do but having the right overthere innovative technology at the right time. And the timing here is perfect. I mean, child native, you know, Cuba netease, the movement behind Cuba. Netease is just a force unto itself. You know, Dev Ops is, you know, is really moving forward. There's a huge sort of groundswell within the networking team community to, you know, to modernize and to, you know, toe toe. Contribute more to the success of business s So we have a massive >> opportunity. And And the trend of programmable networks Infrastructure is code is happening now. He wanted rubber is hitting the road now? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know it's, you know, we'll go through the usual adoption curves of, you know, early adopters and mass market etcetera. And so, you know, there's a There's a journey ahead of us, but but yeah. No, I mean, you know, people are doing this right now. >> Well, congratulations on your launch net, right? We'll be watching you. Really innovative. Moving right to the core of the devices with an operating system. No abstraction. Layers with Cooper Netease. Interesting architecture. Looking forward to following it. Dominic Wild CEO Snapper out here inside the Cube studios and fellow Also, I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching.

>> From Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts, if the queue recovering Vita Winter warmer, twenty nineteen Brought to you by Silicon Angle media. >> Hi. I'm stupid men. And this is the cubes coverage of V tug Winter warmer. Twenty nineteen here. A Gillette Stadium, home of the New England Patriots. Happy to welcome to the program. A community member, Someone I've known for many years at this point. Jonathan Frappe here. Who's with V Brown bag? Thanks so much for joining us from >> Thanks for having me. >> All right, so, you know, I watched this event, and when it started, it was, you know, originally the V mug for New England. And then it became vey tug And one, there's some of the politics stuff which we don't need to go into, but part of it was virtual ization and cloud. And what's the interaction there and what will users have to do? Different. And part of that is jobs. And one of the reasons I really wanted to bring you on is, you know, you started out heavy in that virtual ization base and you've been going through those machinations. So maybe just give our audience a little bit about, you know, your background, some of the things skill sets. You've got lots of acronyms on your on your you know, resume as it is for certification. You've done. So let's start there. >> Sure. So my background. I started this help desk. I did Windows two thousand Active Directory, administration and Exchange Administration all on site and moved into Mohr server administration. And when the empire started to become a thing, I was like, Wow, this is This is a game changer and I need to sort of shift my skill set. I understand the applications of music. I've been supporting him. But virtualization is going to change change That so started to shift there and saw a similar thing with Public Cloud and automation a cz, That same sort of next step beyond infrastructure management. >> All right. And you've had a bunch of certification. The real off a few. You know what? Where are you today? What? What have you added gives a little bit of a timeline. >> My first certification was a plus which come to you seemingly has come around and joined the ranks of posting toe linked in for everybody. So a plus was my first one. EMC PM, CSC on Windows two thousand. Took a little bit of a break in back into it. Bcp five era so four, five years ago. Cem Cem. Other of'em were Certs NSX Cloud see Emma and most recently, the solution's architect associate for a Ws. >> OK, great, in when you look at the kind of virtual ization and cloud, it's not like you thirst, which one day and said, Okay, I no longer need the VM were stuff. I'm going to do the cloud tell us a little bit about you know what led you to start doing the cloud and you know how you you know how your roles that you've had and you know the skill set that you want to have for your career. You know how you look at those. >> So for me, it is about being able to support what my business is doing. And sometimes the right answer's going to be VM, where sometimes it's going to be physical. Sometimes it's going to be containers or public cloud, or, you know, new fancy buzzwords like server lists. And I've always in my career tried to support what where, what application we're delivering to get the business, the information they need. So for me to do that properly, I need to be well versed across all of that infrastructure so that when when it's time to deliver something in public cloud or time to deliver something in the container, I'm ready to go when you do that. >> Yeah. What? What? What's the push and pull for some of the training bin? Is this something that you've seen? You said, like Veum, where you saw it, like, Oh, my gosh, I need to hop on that. You know, I remember back to those early days I remember engineers I worked with that were just like, this thing is amazing. That was like preview motion, even. Yeah, but you know, just what? That that impact we've seen over the last, you know, ten to fifteen years of that growth has there been times where the business is coming said, Hey, can you go learn this? Kaixian orders have been you driving most about yourself. Uh, >> it's it's been both. There are times when the business has come and said, Hey, we would really like to take advantage of virtual ization or public cloud. And it from a technology perspective, there may have been other factors that would impact the ability to do that. So that's why for me. I tried to sort of stay ahead of it when, you know virtual ization was taking off and everything I had was on physical servers. I knew I needed to have the VM where peace in my pocket so that when the business was ready and when other things like compliance, we're ready for it. We could move forward and sort of advanced that same thing with Public Cloud. Now that that's Mohr prevalent and sort of accepted in the industry a lot more cos they're moving in that direction. >> Yeah, and you know, what tips would you give your Pierre if they're a virtual ization person? You know, how are the waters in the cloud world is there are a lot of similarities. Is it? You know, do I have to go relearn and, oh, my gosh, I need to go learn coding for two years before I understand how to do any of this stuff. >> I think it's helpful. Tto learn some level of coding, but do it in an environment that you're comfortable in today. So if you're of'em were admin today, you know there's power, see Ally and be realized orchestrator and and even if you're on via Mars Cloud platform there's there's some basic power shell on bass scripting you could do in the cloud Automation. Get comfortable with the environment, you know. And then as that comfort grows when you move Oh, look, there's power shell commandments for a ws. If that's the route, you go so oh, already understand the format and how I how I glue those things together so you could get comfortable in the environment you're in today and sort of get ready for whatever that next step is. >> Yeah, I've always found I find it interesting. Look at these ecosystems and see where the overlaps and where two things come together. You know, I actually worked with Lennox for about twenty years. So I you know, back when I worked at Emcee the storage company and I supported the Lenox Group and Lennox was kind of this side thing. And then you kind of saw that grow over time and Lennox and virtual ization. We're kind of parallel, but didn't overlap is much. And then when we get to the cloud, it feels like everybody ended up in that space and there were certain skill sets that clinics people had that made it easy to do cloud in certain things that the fertilization people had that made it easy do there. But we're kind of all swimming in the same pools. We see that now in the, you know, core bernetti space. Now I see people I know from all of those communities on, but it's kind of interesting. Curious if you have anything you've seen in kind of the different domains and overlapping careers. >> Yes, you. For me. I think what's help is focusing on how the applications the business uses consumed, what some of the trends are around, how you know whether finance or marketing teams are interacting with those applications. If I know how the application works and what I need to do something to support it, the concepts aren't going to be vastly different. If I know how Exchange's install their sequel servers install, there's some custom application is insult. I could do that across the VM, where environment native US environment and should it supported into Docker by leveraging Cooper Netease. >> All right, so you've mentioned about the time the application, can you? How has it changed your relationship with kind of the application owners as you go from, you know, physical, virtual, the cloud. >> I don't think it should change much. The problem probably the biggest shift that you have is that at some point now, things are out of your control. So when I've got a server sitting in my data center that I can walk down the hallway to if something's not working, I have access to it. If there's an application down in the public cloud, or there's an A Ws outage or any public cloud provider outage, I have to wait. And that sort of I think the thing that I've seen business struggle with the most like, well, it's down, go fix it. It's like, I can't get to it right now, and I'm probably not driving to Virginia, Oregon to go reboot that server for Amazon. >> Whoever absolutely big shift we've seen right is, you know a lot of what I is. It I am managing is now things that aren't in my environment. You know, there was my data centers. My might have had hosted data centers where I'd call somebody up, you know, you know, tell the Rex paper person to reboot the servers or it's right, it's in the public cloud. In which case it's like, OK, what tools. What can I trouble shoot myself? Or is there some, you know, out of that I'm not aware of, you know, is affecting me. Yeah, >> it's Ah, it's a good shift to have for a infrastructure person because we're really getting to the point now. I think the tails, the scales have tipped to focusing more on delivering business value versus delivering infrastructure. The CFO doesn't necessarily think or care that spinning up a new V m faster is cool. They care about getting their application to their team so that they could do their work. So I think taking, you know, going to public cloud or going to other platforms where that's removed it sort of forces you to move to supporting supporting those business applications. >> So I'm curious it every time we have one of these generational shift time. Time is like, Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be out of a job on the server ID men Virtualization is going to get rid of me. I'm a virtual ization Had been cloud's going to get rid of me. This whole server listing will probably just get rid of all the infrastructure people I've read article yesterday was called the Creeping Apocalypse a CZ what they called it. But, you know, you know what you saying is there general fear in your peers or, you know, do you just, you know, dive in and understand it and learn it? If you could stay, you know, up with or a little bit ahead of the curve, you know you're going to keep employed. >> I would say that there's a mix there. Some people, even just a few months ago, some some folks I talked to and they were just sort of breaking into automation and like how they can automate deploying their applications in their legitimate concern, was I won't have a job anymore and sort of the way I looked at that was my job's going to change. I don't spend my entire day administering Windows two thousand active directory boxes any more. So I need Yes, I need to shift that and start thinking about what's next. If I can automate the routine task, you know, deploying an application, patching and application, bringing things up and down when there's some sort of failure than I, uh, I'm going to naturally grow my career in that way by getting rid of the boring stuff. >> Yeah, and I've been here in this argument against automation for decades now, and the question I always put two people is like, Look, if I could give you an extra hour a day or an extra day a week, do you have other projects that you could be doing or things that the business is asking for? That would be better. And I've yet to find somebody that didn't say, Yeah, of course, on DH. What are the things that you're doing that it would be nice to get rid of, You know, other people is like I love the serenity of racking and stacking cabling stuff. And nothing gets people more excited than beautiful cables in Iraq. I thought yesterday I saw people like going off about here's this data center with these beautiful, you know, rack, you know? So with the cable ties and everything, but I'm like, really, you know, there's more value you can add absolutely out there. So >> automate yourself into your next job. It is sort of the way I think I like to think about it. It's not a meeting, >> so let's you know, just look forward a little bit, you know? There's all these waves, you know, Cloud been a decade data was talking to keep downs in this morning on the Cube on we said, you know, when he talks to users, it's their data that super important applications absolutely is what drives, uh, you know, my infrastructure, but it's the data that's the super important piece. So you know, whether it be, you know, you're a I or, you know, you figure various buzz word of the day I ot You know, data is in the center. So what do you looking forward to is? Are there new search or new training that that are exciting? You are areas that you think you're Pierre should be poking out to help try to stay ahead of the curve. >> Yeah, and back to my earlier point about leveraging the thing you know today and how to sort of grow your career. And that next skill set is how I can look at data and make. I understand what's going on around that. So maybe maybe today that's taking some stats from any SX. I hosted an application and correlating that data together on help. You underst Yes. And you know what that means for the applicator action before or use their calls in. And that's going to help you grow into sort of this new realm of like, machine learning and big data. And in analytics, which I think is really the next thing that we're going to need to start doing as Mohr and more of that infrastructure shifted away into surveillance platforms and things that were not worried about How can I understand? How can I take that data? Transform it, use it, correlated together to, you know, help make decisions. >> Alright, on final thing, give us update on our friends at V Brown bag. So, you know, we talked Well, I always say, you know, when we go to V m world, it's like we're there. I'm trying to help kind of balance between the business and the technology. You want to go a little deeper and really geek out and understand some of these things. That's where you know the V brown bag. You know, people are going to be able to dig in with the community in the ecosystem. There was the V and V brown bag for virtual ization. But he brown bags doing much more than just traditional virtualization today. You know what? What? What's on the docket? >> Eso upcoming This year, we're gonna have some episodes around Python so helping add men's get to know Python start to get comfortable with it, Which would be a great language to a automate things that maybe you're doing today in your application, but also to be able to take data and and use Python, too. Manage that data extract value out of that data so that you can help make decisions. So look for the throughout this year and, you know, learn new things. >> All right, Jonathan, from pure pleasure to talk with you on camera after talking to off camera for many years. Thanks so much for joining us. All right. And we appreciate you joining us at this virtual ization and cloud user event. Ve tug Winter warmer. Twenty nineteen on student a minute. Thanks for watching the cue

[Music] we're on welcome to the special cube conversation we're here with some breaking news we got some startup investment news here in the Q studios palo alto I'm John for your host here at Jerry Chen partnered Greylock and the CEO of rock said Venkat Venkat Rahmani welcome to the cube you guys announcing hot news today series a and seed and Series A funding 21 million dollars for your company congratulations thank you Roxette is a data company jerry great this is one of your nest you kept this secret forever it was John was really hard you know over the past two years every time I sat in this seat I'd say and one more thing you know I knew that part of the advantage was rocks I was a special company and we were waiting to announce it and that's right time so it's been about two and half years in the making I gotta give you credit Jerry I just want to say to everyone I try to get the secrets out of you so hard you are so strong and keeping a secret I said you got this hot startup this was two years ago yeah I think the probe from every different angle you can keep it secrets all the entrepreneurs out there Jerry Chen's your guide alright so congratulations let's talk about the startup so you guys got 21 million dollars how much was the seed round this is the series a the seed was three million dollars both Greylock and Sequoia participating and the series a was eighteen point five all right so other investors Jerry who else was in on this I just the two firms former beginning so we teamed up with their French from Sequoia and the seed round and then we over the course of a year and half like this is great we're super excited about the team bank had Andrew bhai belt we love the opportunity and so Mike for an office coin I said let's do this around together and we leaned in and we did it around alright so let's just get into the other side I'm gonna read your your about section of the press release roxette's visions to Korea to build the data-driven future provide a service search and analytics engine make it easy to go from data to applications essentially building a sequel layer on top of the cloud for massive data ingestion I want to jump into it but this is a hot area not a lot of people are doing this at the level you guys are now and what your vision is did this come from what's your background how did you get here did you wake up one Wednesday I'm gonna build this awesome contraction layer and build an operating system around data make this thing scalable how did it all start I think it all started from like just a realization that you know turning useful data to useful apps just requires lots of like hurdles right you have to first figure out what format the data is in you got to prepare the data you gotta find the right specialized you know data database or data management system to load it in and it often requires like weeks to months before useful data becomes useful apps right and finally you know after I you know my tenure at Facebook when I left the first thing I did was I was just talking you know talking to a lot of people with real-world companies and reload problems and I started walking away from moremore of them thinking that this is way too complex I think the the format in which a lot of the data is coming in is not the format in which traditional sequel based databases are optimized for and they were built for like transaction processing and analytical processing not for like real-time streams of data but there's JSON or you know you know parque or or any of these other formats that are very very popular and more and more data is getting produced by one set of applications and getting consumed by other applications but what we saw it was what is this how can we make it simpler why do we need all this complexity right what is a simple what is the most simple and most powerful system we can build and pulled in the hands of as many people as possible and so we very sort of naturally relate to developers and data scientists people who use code on data that's just like you know kind of like our past lives and when we thought about it well why don't we just index the data you know traditional databases were built when every byte mattered every byte of memory every byte on disk now in the cloud the economics are completely different right so when you rethink those things with fresh perspective what we said was like what if we just get all of this data index it in a format where we can directly run very very fast sequel on it how simple would the world be how much faster can people go from ideas to do experiments and experiments to production applications and how do we make it all faster also in the cloud right so that's really the genesis of it well the real inspiration came from actually talking to a lot of people with real-world problems and then figuring out what is the simplest most powerful thing we can build well I want to get to the whole complexity conversation cuz we were talking before we came on camera here about how complexity can kill and why and more complexity on top of more complexity I think there's a simplicity angle here that's interesting but I want to get back to your background of Facebook and I want to tell a story you've been there eight years but you were there during a very interesting time during that time in history Facebook was I think the first generation we've taught us on the cube all the time about how they had to build their own infrastructure at scale while they're scaling so they were literally blitzscaling as reid hoffman and would say and you guys do it the Greylock coverage unlike other companies at scale eBay Microsoft they had old-school one dotto Technology databases Facebook had to kind of you know break glass you know and build the DevOps out from generation one from scratch correct it was a fantastic experience I think when I started in 2007 Facebook had about 40 million monthly actives and I had the privilege of working with some of the best people and a lot of the problems we were very quickly around 2008 when I went and said hey I want to do some infrastructure stuff the mandate that was given to me and my team was we've been very good at taking open source software and customizing it to our needs what would infrastructure built by Facebook for Facebook look like and we then went into this journey that ended up being building the online data infrastructure at Facebook by the time I left the collectively these systems were surveying 5 plus billion requests per second across 25 plus geographical clusters and half a dozen data centers I think at that time and now there's more and the system continues to chug along so it was just a fantastic experience I think all the traditional ways of problem solving just would not work at that scale and when the user base was doubling early in the early days every four months every five months yeah and what's interesting you know you're young and here at the front lines but you're kind of the frog in boiling water and that's because you are you were at that time building the power DevOps equation automating scale growth everything's happening at once you guys were right there building it now fast forward today everyone who's got an enterprise it's it wants to get there they don't they're not Facebook they don't have this engineering staff they want to get scale they see the cloud clearly the value property has got clear visibility but the economics behind who they hire so they have all this data and they get more increasing amount of data they want to be like Facebook but can't be like Facebook so they have to build their own solutions and I think this is where a lot of the other vendors have to rebuild this cherry I want to ask you because you've been looking at a lot of investments you've seen that old guard kind of like recycled database solutions coming to the market you've seen some stuff in open source but nothing unique what was it about Roxette that when you first talk to them that but you saw that this is going to be vectoring into a trend that was going to be a perfect storm yeah I think you nailed it John historic when we have this new problems like how to use data the first thing trying to do you saw with the old technology Oh existing data warehouses akin databases okay that doesn't work and then the next thing you do is like okay you know through my investments in docker and B and the boards or a cloud aerosol firsthand you need kind of this rise of stateless apps but not stateless databases right and then I through the cloud area and a bunch of companies that I saw has an investor every pitch I saw for two or three years trying to solve this data and state problem the cloud dudes add more boxes right here's here's a box database or s3 let me solve it with like Oh another database elastic or Kafka or Mongo or you know Apache arrow and it just got like a mess because if almond Enterprise IT shop there's no way can I have the skill the developers to manage this like as Beckett like to call it Rube Goldberg machination of data pipelines and you know I first met Venkat three years ago and one of the conversations was you know complexity you can't solve complex with more complexity you can only solve complexity with simplicity and Roxette and the vision they had was the first company said you know what let's remove boxes and their design principle was not adding another boxes all a problem but how to remove boxes to solve this problem and you know he and I got along with that vision and excited from the beginning stood to leave the scene ah sure let's go back with you guys now I got the funding so use a couple stealth years to with three million which is good a small team and that goes a long way it certainly 2021 total 18 fresh money it's gonna help you guys build out the team and crank whatnot get that later but what did you guys do in the in those two years where are you now sequel obviously is lingua franca cool of sequel but all this data is doesn't need to be scheming up and built out so were you guys that now so since raising the seed I think we've done a lot of R&D I think we fundamentally believe traditional data management systems that have been ported over to run on cloud Williams does not make them cloud databases I think the cloud economics is fundamentally different I think we're bringing this just scratching the surface of what is possible the cloud economics is you know it's like a simple realization that whether you rent 100 CPUs for one minute or or one CPU 400 minutes it's cost you exactly the same so then if you really ask why is any of my query is slow right I think because your software sucks right so basically what I'm trying to say is if you can actually paralyze that and if you can really exploit the fluidity of the hardware it's not easy it's very very difficult very very challenging but it's possible I think it's not impossible and if you can actually build software ground-up natively in the cloud that simplifies a lot of this stuff and and understands the economics are different now and it's system software at the end of the day is how do I get the best you know performance and efficiency for the price being paid right and the you know really building you know that is really what I think took a lot of time for us we have built not only a ground-up indexing technique that can take raw data without knowing the shape of the data we can turn that and index it in ways and store them maybe in more than one way since for certain types of data and then also have built a distributed sequel engine that is cloud native built by ground up in the cloud and C++ and like really high performance you know technologies and we can actually run distributor sequel on this raw data very very fast my god and this is why I brought up your background on Facebook I think there's a parallel there from the ground this ground up kind of philosophy if you think of sequel as like a Google search results search you know keyword it's the keyword for machines in most database worlds that is the standard so you can just use that as your interface Christ and then you using the cloud goodness to optimize for more of the results crafty index is that right correct yes you can ask your question if your app if you know how to see you sequel you know how to use Roxette if you can frame your the question that you're asking in order to answer an API request it could be a micro service that you're building it could be a recommendation engine that you're that you're building or you could you could have recommendations you know trying to personalize it on top of real time data any of those kinds of applications where it's a it's a service that you're building an application you're building if you can represent ask a question in sequel we will make sure it's fast all right let's get into the how you guys see the application development market because the developers will other winners here end of the day so when we were covering the Hadoop ecosystem you know from the cloud era days and now the important work at the Claire merger that kind of consolidates that kind of open source pool the big complaint that we used to hear from practitioners was its time consuming Talent but we used to kind of get down and dirty the questions and ask people how they're using Hadoop and we had two answers we stood up Hadoop we were running Hadoop in our company and then that was one answer the other answer was we're using Hadoop for blank there was not a lot of those responses in other words there has to be a reason why you're using it not just standing it up and then the Hadoop had the problem of the world grew really fast who's gonna run it yeah management of it Nukem noose new things came in so became complex overnight it kind of had took on cat hair on it basically as we would say so how do you guys see your solution being used so how do you solve that what we're running Roxette oh okay that's great for what what did developers use Roxette for so there are two big personas that that we currently have as users right there are developers and data scientists people who program on data right - you know on one hand developers want to build applications that are making either an existing application better it could be a micro service that you know I want to personalize the recommendations they generated online I mean offline but it's served online but whether it is somebody you know asking shopping for cars on San Francisco was the shopping you know was the shopping for cars in Colorado we can't show the same recommendations based on how do we basically personalize it so personalization IOT these kinds of applications developers love that because often what what you need to do is you need to combine real-time streams coming in semi structured format with structured data and you have no no sequel type of systems that are very good at semi structured data but they don't give you joins they don't give you a full sequel and then traditional sequel systems are a little bit cumbersome if you think about it I new elasticsearch but you can do joins and much more complex correct exactly built for the cloud and with full feature sequel and joins that's how that's the best way to think about it and that's how developers you said on the other side because its sequel now all of a sudden did you know data scientist also loved it they had they want to run a lot of experiments they are the sitting on a lot of data they want to play with it run experiments test hypotheses before they say all right I got something here I found a pattern that I don't know I know I had before which is why when you go and try to stand up traditional database infrastructure they don't know how what indexes to build how do i optimize it so that I can ask you know interrogatory and all that complexity away from those people right from basically provisioning a sandbox if you will almost like a perpetual sandbox of data correct except it's server less so like you don't you never think about you know how many SSDs do I need how many RAM do I need how many hosts do I need what configure your programmable data yes exactly so you start so DevOps for data is finally the interview I've been waiting for I've been saying it for years when's is gonna be a data DevOps so this is kind of what you're thinking right exactly so you know you give us literally you you log in to rocks at you give us read permissions to battle your data sitting in any cloud and more and more data sources we're adding support every day and we will automatically cloudburst will automatically interested we will schematize the data and we will give you very very fast sequel over rest so if you know how to use REST API and if you know how to use sequel you'd literally need don't need to think about anything about Hardware anything about standing up any servers shards you know reindex and restarting none of that you just go from here is a bunch of data here are my questions here is the app I want to build you know like you should be bottleneck by your career and imagination not by what can my data employers give me through a use case real quick island anyway the Jarius more the structural and architectural questions around the marketplace take me through a use case I'm a developer what's the low-hanging fruit use case how would I engage with you guys yeah do I just you just ingest I just point data at you how do you see your market developing from the customer standpoint cool I'll take one concrete example from a from a developer right from somebody we're working with right now so they have right now offline recommendations right or every night they generate like if you're looking for this car or or this particular item in e-commerce these are the other things are related well they show the same thing if you're looking at let's say a car this is the five cars that are closely related this car and they show that no matter who's browsing well you might have clicked on blue cars the 17 out of 18 clicks you should be showing blue cars to them right you may be logging in from San Francisco I may be logging in from like Colorado we may be looking for different kinds of cars with different you know four-wheel drives and other options and whatnot there's so much information that's available that you can you're actually by personalizing it you're adding creating more value to your customer we make it very easy you know live stream all the click stream beta to rock set and you can join that with all the assets that you have whether it's product data user data past transaction history and now if you can represent the joins or whatever personalization that you want to find in real time as a sequel statement you can build that personalization engine on top of Roxanne this is one one category you're putting sequel code into the kind of the workflow of the code saying okay when someone gets down to these kinds of interactions this is the sequel query because it's a blue car kind of go down right so like tell me all the recent cars that this person liked what color is this and I want to like okay here's a set of candidate recommendations I have how do I start it what are the four five what are the top five I want to show and then on the data science use case there's a you know somebody building a market intelligence application they get a lot of third-party data sets it's periodic dumps of huge blocks of JSON they want to combine that with you know data that they have internally within the enterprise to see you know which customers are engaging with them who are the persons churning out what are they doing and they in the in the market and trying to bring they bring it all together how do you do that when you how do you join a sequel table with a with a JSON third party dumb and especially for coming and like in the real-time or periodic in a week or week month or one month literally you can you know what took this particular firm that we're working with this is an investment firm trying to do market intelligence it used age to run ad hoc scripts to turn all of this data into a useful Excel report and that used to take them three to four weeks and you know two people working on one person working part time they did the same thing in two days and Rock said I want to get to back to microservices in a minute and hold that thought I won't go to Jerry if you want to get to the business model question that landscape because micro services were all the world's going to Inc so competition business model I'll see you gets are funded so they said love the thing about monetization to my stay on the core value proposition in light of the red hat being bought by by IBM had a tweet out there kind of critical of the transactions just in terms of you know people talk about IBM's betting the company on RedHat Mike my tweet was don't get your reaction will and tie it to the visible here is that it seems like they're going to macro services not micro services and that the world is the stack is changing so when IBM sell out their stack you have old-school stack thinkers and then you have new-school stack thinkers where cloud completely changes the nature of the stack in this case this venture kind of is an indication that if you think differently the stack is not just a full stack this way it's this way in this way yeah as we've been saying on the queue for a couple of years so you get the old guard trying to get a position and open source all these things but the stacks changing these guys have the cloud out there as a tailwind which is a good thing how do you see the business model evolving do you guys talk about that in terms of you can hey just try to find your groove swing get customers don't worry about the monetization how many charging so how's that how do you guys talk about the business model is it specific and you guys have clear visibility on that what's the story on that I mean I think yeah I always tell Bank had this kind of three hurdles you know you have something worthwhile one well someone listen to your pitch right people are busy you like hey John you get pitched a hundred times a day by startups right will you take 30 seconds listen to it that's hurdle one her will to is we spend time hands on keyboards playing around with the code and step threes will they write you a check and I as a as a enter price offered investor in a former operator we don't overly folks in the revenue model now I think writing a check the biz model just means you're creating value and I think people write you checking screening value but you know the feedback I always give Venkat and the founders work but don't overthink pricing if the first 10 customers just create value like solve their problems make them love the product get them using it and then the monetization the actual specifics the business model you know we'll figure out down the line I mean it's a cloud service it's you know service tactically to many servers in that sentence but it's um it's to your point spore on the cloud the one that economists are good so if it works it's gonna be profitable yeah it's born the cloud multi-cloud right across whatever cloud I wanna be in it's it's the way application architects going right you don't you don't care about VMs you don't care about containers you just care about hey here's my data I just want to query it and in the past you us developer he had to make compromises if I wanted joins in sequel queries I had to use like postgrads if I won like document database and he's like Mongo if I wanted index how to use like elastic and so either one I had to pick one or two I had to use all three you know and and neither world was great and then all three of those products have different business models and with rocks head you actually don't need to make choices right yes this is classic Greylock investment you got sequoia same way go out get a position in the market don't overthink the revenue model you'll funded for grow the company let's scale a little bit and figure out that blitzscale moment I believe there's probably the ethos that you guys have here one thing I would add in the business model discussion is that we're not optimized to sell latte machines who are selling coffee by the cup right so like that's really what I mean we want to put it in the hands of as many people as possible and make sure we are useful to them right and I think that is what we're obsessed about where's the search is a good proxy I mean that's they did well that way and rocks it's free to get started right so right now they go to rocks calm get started for free and just start and play around with it yeah yeah I mean I think you guys hit the nail on the head on this whole kind of data addressability I've been talking about it for years making it part of the development process programming data whatever buzzword comes out of it I think the trend is it looks a lot like that depo DevOps ethos of automation scale you get to value quickly not over thinking it the value proposition and let it organically become part of the operation yeah I think we we the internal KPIs we track are like how many users and applications are using us on a daily and weekly basis this is what we obsess about I think we say like this is what excellence looks like and we pursue that the logos in the revenue would would you know would be a second-order effect yeah and it's could you build that core kernels this classic classic build up so I asked about the multi cloud you mention that earlier I want to get your thoughts on kubernetes obviously there's a lot of great projects going on and CN CF around is do and this new state problem that you're solving in rest you know stateless has been an easy solution VP is but API 2.0 is about state right so that's kind of happening now what's your view on kubernetes why is it going to be impactful if someone asked you you know at a party hey thank you why is what's all this kubernetes what party going yeah I mean all we do is talk about kubernetes and no operating systems yeah hand out candy last night know we're huge fans of communities and docker in fact in the entire rock set you know back-end is built on top of that so we run an AWS but with the inside that like we run or you know their entire infrastructure in one kubernetes cluster and you know that is something that I think is here to stay I think this is the the the programmability of it I think the DevOps automation that comes with kubernetes I think all of that is just like this is what people are going to start taking why is it why is it important in your mind the orchestration because of the statement what's the let's see why is it so important it's a lot of people are jazzed about it I've been you know what's what's the key thing I think I think it makes your entire infrastructure program all right I think it turns you know every aspect of you know for example yeah I'll take it I'll take a concrete example we wanted to build this infrastructure so that when somebody points that like it's a 10 terabytes of data we want to very quickly Auto scale that out and be able to grow this this cluster as quickly as possible and it's like this fluidity of the hardware that I'm talking about and it needs to happen or two levels it's one you know micro service that is ingesting all the data that needs to sort of burst out and also at the second level we need to be able to grow more more nodes that we we add to this cluster and so the programmability nature of this like just imagine without an abstraction like kubernetes and docker and containers and pods imagine doing this right you are building a you know a lots and lots of metrics and monitoring and you're trying to build the state machine of like what is my desired state in terms of server utilization and what is the observed state and everything is so ad hoc and very complicated and kubernetes makes this whole thing programmable so I think it's now a lot of the automation that we do in terms of called bursting and whatnot when I say clock you know it's something we do take advantage of that with respect to stateful services I think it's still early days so our our position on my partner it's a lot harder so our position on that is continue to use communities and continue to make things as stateless as possible and send your real-time streams to a service like Roxette not necessarily that pick something like that very separate state and keep it in a backhand that is very much suited to your micro service and the business logic that needs to live there continue should continue to live there but if you can take a very hard to scale stateful service split it into two and have some kind of an indexing system Roxette is one that you know we are proud of building and have your stateless communal application logic and continue to have that you know maybe use kubernetes scale it in lambdas you know for all we care but you can take something that is very hard to you know manage and scale today break it into the stateful part in the stateless part and the serval is back in like like Roxette will will sort of hopefully give you a huge boost in being able to go from you know an experiment to okay I'm gonna roll it out to a smaller you know set of audience to like I want to do a worldwide you know you can do all of that without having to worry about and think about the alternative if you did it the old way yeah yeah and that's like talent you'd need it would be a wired that's spaghetti everywhere so Jerry this is a kubernetes is really kind of a benefit off your your investment in docker you must be proud and that the industry has gone to a whole nother level because containers really enable all this correct yeah so that this is where this is an example where I think clouds gonna go to a whole nother level that no one's seen before these kinds of opportunities that you're investing in so I got to ask you directly as you're looking at them as a as a knowledgeable cloud guy as well as an investor cloud changes things how does that change how is cloud native and these kinds of new opportunities that have built from the ground up change a company's network network security application era formants because certainly this is a game changer so those are the three areas I see a lot of impact compute check storage check networking early days you know it's it's it's funny it gosh seems so long ago yet so briefly when you know I first talked five years ago when I first met mayor of Essen or docker and it was from beginning people like okay yes stateless applications but stateful container stateless apps and then for the next three or four years we saw a bunch of companies like how do I handle state in a docker based application and lots of stars have tried and is the wrong approach the right approach is what these guys have cracked just suffered the state from the application those are app stateless containers store your state on an indexing layer like rock set that's hopefully one of the better ways saw the problem but as you kind of under one problem and solve it with something like rock set to your point awesome like networking issue because all of a sudden like I think service mesh and like it's do and costs or kind of the technologies people talk about because as these micro services come up and down they're pretty dynamic and partially as a developer I don't want to care about that yeah right that's the value like a Roxanna service but still as they operate of the cloud or the IT person other side of the proverbial curtain I probably care security I matters because also India's flowing from multiple locations multiple destinations using all these API and then you have kind of compliance like you know GDP are making security and privacy super important right now so that's an area that we think a lot about as investors so can I program that into Roxette what about to build that in my nap app natively leveraging the Roxette abstraction checking what's the key learning feature it's just a I'd say I'm a prime agent Ariane gdpr hey you know what I got a website and social network out in London and Europe and I got this gdpr nightmare I don't we don't have a great answer for GDP are we are we're not a controller of the data right we're just a processor so I think for GDP are I think there is still the controller still has to do a lot of work to be compliant with GDP are I think the way we look at it is like we never forget that this ultimately is going to be adding value to enterprises so from day one we you can't store data and Roxette without encrypting it like it's just the on you know on by default the only way and all transit is all or HTTPS and SSL and so we never freaked out that we're building for enterprises and so we've baked in for enterprise customers if they can bring in their own custom encryption key and so everything will be encrypted the key never leaves their AWS account if it's a you know kms key support private VP ceilings like we have a plethora of you know security features so that the the control of the data is still with the data controller with this which is our customer but we will be the the processor and a lot of the time we can process it using their encryption keys if I'm gonna build a GDP our sleeves no security solution I would probably build on Roxette and some of the early developers take around rocks at our security companies that are trying to track we're all ideas coming and going so there the processor and then one of the companies we hope to enable with Roxette is another generation security and privacy companies that in the past had a hard time tracking all this data so I can build on top of rocks crack okay so you can built you can build security a gbbr solution on top rock set because rock set gives you the power to process all the data index all the data and then so one of the early developers you know stolen stealth is they looking at the data flows coming and go he's using them and they'll apply the context right they'll say oh this is your credit card the Social Security is your birthday excetera your favorite colors and they'll apply that but I think to your point it's game-changing like not just Roxette but all the stuff in cloud and as an investor we see a whole generation of new companies either a to make things better or B to solve this new category problems like pricing the cloud and I think the future is pretty bright for both great founders and investors because there's just a bunch of great new companies and it's building up from the ground up this is the thing I brought my mother's red hat IBM thing is that's not the answer at the root level I feel like right now I'd be on I I think's fastenings but it's almost like you're almost doubling down to your your comment on the old stack right it's almost a double down the old stack versus an aggressive bet on kind of what a cloud native stack will look like you know I wish both companies are great people I was doing the best and stuff do well with I think I'd like to do great with OpenStack but again their product company as the people that happen to contribute to open source I think was a great move for both companies but it doesn't mean that that's not we can't do well without a new stack doing well and I think you're gonna see this world where we have to your point oh these old stacks but then a category of new stack companies that are being born in the cloud they're just fun to watch it all it's all big all big investments that would be blitzscaling criteria all start out organically on a wave in a market that has problems yeah and that's growing so I think cloud native ground-up kind of clean sheet of paper that's the new you know I say you're just got a pic pick up you got to pick the right way if I'm oh it's gotta pick a big wave big wave is not a bad wave to be on right now and it's at the data way that's part of the cloud cracked and it's it's been growing bigger it's it's arguably bigger than IBM is bigger than Red Hat is bigger than most of the companies out there and I think that's the right way to bet on it so you're gonna pick the next way that's kind of cloud native-born the cloud infrastructure that is still early days and companies are writing that way we're gonna do well and so I'm pretty excited there's a lot of opportunities certainly this whole idea that you know this change is coming societal change you know what's going on mission based companies from whether it's the NGO to full scale or all the applications that the clouds can enable from data privacy your wearables or cars or health thing we're seeing it every single day I'm pretty sad if you took amazon's revenue and then edit edit and it's not revenue the whole ready you look at there a dybbuk loud revenue so there's like 20 billion run which you know Microsoft had bundles in a lot of their office stuff as well if you took amazon's customers to dinner in the marketplace and took their revenue there clearly would be never for sure if item binds by a long shot so they don't count that revenue and that's a big factor if you look at whoever can build these enabling markets right now there's gonna be a few few big ones I think coming on they're gonna do well so I think this is a good opportunity of gradual ations thank you thank you at 21 million dollars final question before we go what are you gonna spend it on we're gonna spend it on our go-to-market strategy and hiding amazing people as many as we can get good good answer didn't say launch party that I'm saying right yeah okay we're here Rex at SIA and Joe's Jerry Chen cube cube royalty number two all-time on our Keeble um nine list partner and Greylock guy states were coming in I'm Jeffrey thanks for watching this special cube conversation [Music]

>>covering EMC world 2016 brought to you by EMC. Now here are your hopes, Stu Milliman and Brian Gracely. >>Welcome to the cube SiliconANGLE media's flagship program. We go out to all the enterprise tech shows, help extract the signal from the noise. This is EMC roll 2016. It's actually our seventh year at the show. Personally for me, it's my 14th year coming to the show, so lots of familiar faces. Happy to bring on as our first guest here on this set. Brian Gracely and I are welcoming a first time member of the cube and a new person to EMC, Josh Bernstein, who is the VP of technical strategy with the MC. Welcome to the cube. Thank you. Alright, you will be joining an illustrious audience of thousands of people site called cube alumni. Everyone from Michael Dell who happens to be being interviewed right now, John Cleese, Satya Nadella, and yourself. I know from Apple, uh, about a year ago EMC. Give our audience a little bit of a understanding of your background, uh, you know, and what would bring you to leave Apple to join, you know, EMC storage. >>That's a great question. Um, you know, I had the pleasure of working with some really talented people at Apple. Um, we basically designed and built the Siri infrastructure from the ground up from day one, um, up until about the time I left about a year ago. And, um, I wanted a different challenge. I wanted to do something different. You know, at some point, you know, it's year four and they're like, how many servers do you need to add? And you're like another 5,000 boxes here, 5,000 boxes. They're like, it was sort of rinse and repeat, but we went on an amazing journey. We ran the world's largest VMware environment, um, and then ran what I still think is the world's largest mesas containerized environment. And the one problem, you know, the engineering me, the one problem that kind of stuck with us was that, um, at that time we couldn't figure out a good way to run persistent applications in our containerized environments. And we kind of punted and kind of worked around the issue. But as an engineer, I wanted to go solve that problem. Um, Brian and his team had created amazing work with EMC code previously and it was just, uh, I was really passionate about solving that problem technically, and that that's the biggest reason I came was to do something different and to solve a problem that, that bothered me. >>Yeah. So, uh, yeah, by my cohost here, Brian Gracely, right. Was a year ago during the EMC code team. I actually had some history. I was the like product manager for Linux back at EMC back in 2000. So I know for a fact how many people knew open source over my time there and what's there. So talk a little bit about the kind of the trend of open source and what's that >>mean to EMC? Yeah, I mean I think that that open source is always something that's been near and dear to my heart. Um, I think really what it comes down to, technically customers talk or people talk all the time as a cheaper, is it better code qualities of all these sort of very qualitative kind of kind of ideas for me, I think it's about integration, right? Open source allows me to take, um, to take software, consume software in a way that makes it easier to integrate with the rest of my environment. And as we move towards cloud native applications, as we move towards microservices starting adopting 12 factor applications, the ease of integration, really what I think people care about in the end. And so that's why, that's why open source is important. And I think that if you look at our customer base, um, they want a solution that that has real value. >>And so they're not necessarily just concerned about the fastest this or the largest this. They want to see how it fits into their environment. And the work that we do in the community around EMC code really solves that last mile, if you want to think about it that way. So I'm thrilled to be a part of it. Yeah. So I mean, you've been around EMC now for a year. A lot of enterprise customers you get to get access to. We can. One of the things I, you know, we've talked about it throughout the keynote today and yet one of the things was when you were at Siri, Siri is essentially it's a product facing, it's not so much an it function, it's a business facing. How much business facing conversations are you getting to have now as EMC evolves, as Dell evolves, people want to know like, how do I do that digital business thing as opposed to just, you know, it more efficient. >>Yeah. I think I have that conversation probably nine times out of 10 actually. Um, every CIO or every executive I speak to has a customer facing application or, or some sort of customer facing support. Yeah. So I have that conversation constantly. Um, and what Siri did was just, it was just another business application. You know, for an airline, it's a reservation system for a, a, a, a bank. It's their, their app, their mobile app, right. Siri was just, just another app in the end. And so that's the conversation I find myself having all the time. Right. One of the things that your team's heavily involved with. You said persistence with containers, persistence. What does that mean? You know, for somebody who's not living that everyday, give us there, give us the, you know, one-on-one version of what that means and why it's important for this new world. >>Yeah, I mean, I think that, um, you know, in the early years with virtual machines, we, we, uh, this idea that applications could be stateful or can store data inside the virtual machine and when the, when the virtual machine needed to be moved or spun up or, or operated on, um, the storage or the data of the application kind of came with it. Containers are much more lighter weight, so you get a lot more agility out of things. They're a lot simpler, but unfortunately that a femoral nature, that idea that they, they don't persist or they don't kind of store state with them makes migrating applications to containers relatively difficult. So I felt like if we could solve that, that, that issue technically, um, if we could solve it operationally, uh, then we could really help customers move the ball forward into, into a third platform and into these container worlds. >>Cause I don't think it's realistic to expect people to rewrite their applications all the time. Right. Um, and some applications are never going to be rewritten. Customers run Oracle customers run my SQL Postgres, these databases, why can't we run them in containers? And that's really what we're enabling with this. Yeah. Stu and I were sitting in the analyst briefing this morning. Jeremy Burton was talking about, uh, either OpenStack or some open source technology and was throwing around words, open source words as if, you know, he was at any meetup. Right. So talk about just over the last year, how much has open source changed within EMC? How comfortable do you think they feel, you know, when the executive team and out in the field? Well, first of all, Jeremy is the biggest supporter. I mean, I think that, um, he, he's passionate about this. I think he understands the, the, the value that it's bringing to his business. >>From a, from a community standpoint, we've contributed over 350,000 lines of code. We have 48 active projects and we have 1100 community followers in our Slack channel right now. Um, so I think that the traction that we've gotten and the interest has been tremendous. Uh, we've also provided a, a, a facility for other people inside of EMC that have side projects to open source those projects through EMC code, um, through the dev high five program. And it's been, uh, the, the amount of support is just continuing to grow. It's been fantastic. That's great to hear. That's great to hear. What, what, you know, as, as you're here sort of last year you got announced on stage as new guy, you've been here for a year, you've got a lot going on. What's, what are some of the highlights for you that you're looking for this week and you want people to go, you know, watch the next couple of days? >>Yeah, that's great. I think it's, um, I mean, hopefully you'll watch my, uh, my keynote on Wednesday. Um, but I think from a technical standpoint, I have a good reception on Wednesday at 3:00 PM Pacific. Hopefully you all will stream it. Um, and we're really talking about how open source to change the data center and how I'm running persistent applications or, or, um, stored state applications and containers, uh, matters and why it matters. And I had my friend Toby from ASIS fare on stage with me then and we're actually going to do a demo in front of everybody in real time. Wow. Um, so I'm very excited about that. So Josh, you know, a lot of the people that come to EMC world, they're infrastructure people. Yeah. Right. Can you help, you know, what's that journey from infrastructure to infrastructure as code? You know, I think infrastructure is, code is sort of a subset of, of dev ops, right? >>And if you kind of have to organize a little bit, dev ops is really this adaptation of a, uh, a operational model and it operational model where traditionally we have these silos of compute, network and storage that manage and maintain that environment. And when you adopt dev ops, it's all about tearing down those walls. And one of the ways by which you do that is through adopting infrastructure as code. Um, and it's this idea that I can declare my given state of infrastructure and software and therefore I can apply software development principles to my infrastructure and operate much more efficiently that way. And so that, that's, that's why I infrastructure and code is very important stuff like this. All right. So when we hear announcements about, you know, unity and converged infrastructure, how much was the work that you've been working on, you know, make its way into stuff that looks more like traditional storage filled products? >>I think that's great. I mean, I, I, that's a great question. If you look at the unity platform, you'll have some interesting surprises over the way that that platform is put together and assembled. Um, but also that we still realize that there's plenty of people that want to leverage unity with containers or leverage some of our other more traditional storage lines with containers. And a lot of the work we're doing around Rex Ray is really, uh, any other EMC code products is really focused on that. And it's about delivering a solution end to end and not just dropping a product off and helping people plug it in. But open source is always a little unusual for anybody who's used to commercial software. You can kind of track it, you can eventually figure out customers. If you guys see an examples where you, you know, a company, a customer, a partner is gone. >>I'm using your software, I'm collaborating with you and we're now starting to move it, you know, like how do you, how do you connect the software you're building to what's going on in the marketplace? Yeah, that's a great question. We have a lot of customers now that are picking up our projects saying, Hey, we love this. We're really looking forward to it. Um, how do we maintain support for it? We like to pay for a support contract and things like that. And um, and we're happy to have those, those conversations. Some of the largest EMC customers are actually going down that right. Right now they realize that, um, the open source is key to integration and if it delivers real value, then customers are actually volunteering, wanting to pay for that value and looking for that commercial support. So I think that's the biggest yard stick, if you can look at what's happened in the last year is customers are coming back to us now and saying, Hey, this, this one project I use every day. >>Um, it's really critical to our business. Can you officially support it with, you know, the world class support that EMC has delivered for so many years. Wow. And so that, that's really exciting and that that's really validated. And when you talk to those customers, a lot of them, you know, we, we see in talking to them, they're trying to figure out open source, right? Right. Capital one bank or nationwide or something. How do you help them take the learnings that you've had in the, in the EMC code team for them, for whether it's open source, licensing, contributing, how do you help them? A little bit. Yeah. A lot of the questions I get from those customers are, you know, what is it that I opened source? Um, and, and how do I do it? And, you know, why do I do it? I mean, I think that you open source something because you feel like you're Bennett, you can benefit other people and you can take benefit from those other people's interests. >>I think that's why you do something. You also do it because you want to make something consumable, easily consumable for somebody how to do it is a little harder. A lot of these organizations don't have that. Um, we have a phenomenal program with EMC code that helps our customers and internally ADMC do it. We've extended that to our customers now. Um, and, and, and so I think that that's why people are interested, you know, we're really helping helping people kind of go through this journey. Yeah. And I'll, I'll, I'll give a plug for folks that go back to the Wiki bond research side of things. Uh, we just did a big thing with North Ridge ventures. The, uh, the future of open source survey. Lots of really good survey data that's in their lines a lot to what you're talking about really, you know, where a customer's putting open source into production, what are they thinking about, right? >>But also, you know, what are the business models? So we're seeing people say, can I take open source and, and build a SAS application? Should I go build, uh, an IOT device and so forth. What are you, what are you guys excited about the second half of the year? What do you, how do you think about roadmaps or the types of projects you should guys should try and work on? Hi, I'm very excited about our roadmap for the rest of the year. I think that, um, you'll see, uh, you'll see us integrate a little bit more clearly with the leading a containerized environments. Um, a lot of, one of the other biggest problems that I think customers have is, you know, bare metal provisioning on infrastructure. A lot of our customers, despite wanting to move to the cloud, have requirements around on-prem, there'll be a tremendous amount of work on that. Um, so I'm very excited about about sort of making storage and making a container is sort of more palatable and more consumable for our larger customers. Yeah. So that's great. Josh, one of the things we've been seeing is the line between the vendor and the customers has been blurring. Yeah. You know, when we could go to some of the open source shows, you know, that seems like, you know, GE >>and Nike and everything else, not only using but you know, contributing, presenting. Do you have any examples you can show, you know, you mentioned your partner, your partner mezzos is going to be doing, so, uh, uh, you know, any other kind of the big end users that are kind of buying in. >>Yeah. You'll see some of those on stage with us on Wednesday. Yeah. Um, I'm, I think that kind of validation is amazing. When you can work so closely with customers, um, and they will voluntarily stand up on stage with you and sort of validate the work that you've done. Um, I think that'll be, you know, that that's incredibly rewarding. And you'll see those guys come up on Wednesday. Yeah. >>So, so one of the hardest parts about that is of course finding the people. And that's one of the reasons they participate. How's the, you know, the job search go for people. I mean it kind of the talent acquisition. How do you find the people, how do you train them >>for open source people? For open source people? I mean, I think that's the interesting thing. Um, the community is a small place. We joke in the Bay area, right? The bear is a small place and you, you know, somebody in, you know, somebody else and this other person. And so, um, at least for my team, the way we've stopped up is who, who do, you know? Um, and the interesting thing about it is we're less interested in what's on their resume and sort of more interested in what's in their GitHub account or what they've done with the community or what, what their interest is. Um, and that's a really great way to validate, you know, key contributors and key engineers is, is what have you done lately. It helps the new LinkedIn for developers, new LinkedIn. But you know, you want to see what people have done and whether or not they're passionate, right? It's very easy to throw a bunch of projects up there and look like you have a nice resume. Um, but you want to select people that have a passion and, and that's really what's been important to us and that's why our team has grown so well over those past year. >>Just want to give you the final word. People want to, you know, not only find but contribute. Where do they >>yeah, check us out on EMC code.com. Um, if you're at the show, come see us in booth 10 44. We have some really interesting demos there and I'm, I'm excited. I'm very excited to be here. >>All right, Josh Bernstein, congratulations on all you've done over the last year. Looking forward to your keynote on Wednesday and all the sessions that they're, that will be there. We've got three days of live full coverage, two sets. Uh, Dave Volante, John furrier, Brian Gracely, myself. We've got a new host, John Walls here. Jeff Frick's also here. So, you know, cast a thousands helping to bring the cube experience to EMC rolled 2016 stay tuned. We've got lots more coverage. Come in and you're watching the queue. >>Yeah.