>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies Everyone welcome back to the cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World Digital Experience I'm John for your host of the Cube Cube. Virtual. We're not in person this year were remote We're doing The interviews were not face to face. So thanks for watching two great guests to talk about the Dell Technology Storage and data protection for the VM Ware environments got Caitlin Gordon, vice President, product management, Dale Technologies and Leak as well. Vice president of Cloud Platform Business Unit, also known as CPB. You for VM where Lee and Cable in Great to see you both. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for having me >>s So what? What a crazy year. We're not in person. Usually the the events Awesome. VM world recently went on and then you guys have the same situation role online now and it's >>really kind >>of highlighted the customer environments of cloud needed. But I've been saying this on all my reports and all the Cube interviews that the executives who are in charge and now saying, Look at our modern APS have to be cloud native because the obvious benefits are there and container ization has become mainstream. But yet I d c still forecast about 15% of enterprises are still fully containing rise, with a huge amount of growth coming around the corner. So you're seeing this mature market where containers are validated, they're being put into production. People are now moving hard core with containers. And you have the kubernetes. I gotta ask you, Li, I'm Caitlin. What does this mean for the customers? Are they getting harder pressure points to do things faster? What does it all mean for the customer? >>Yeah, I'll start. Only you can add to it. I mean, I think what we see is the trends that were already happening of now. Accelerated and modern APs were kind of the top of the priority list, but now it has is really expedited. But at the same time, traditional applications haven't gone anywhere. So there's this dichotomy that a lot of I t is dealing with of head Oh, accelerate those modern APs while also streamlining and simplifying my environment for my traditional laps. And not only do I need to the right infrastructure to have that for production workloads, modern, traditional, but also form a data protection standpoint. How to ensure that those are all secure and do all of that in a way that simplifies life for whether it's the data protection admin, the BM admin or even the developer right, all of the different folks involved and needing to make all of their lives simpler has just really exacerbated a challenge and really given us a lot of opportunity to try to solve that for customers together. >>Lee, What's your take on the landscape out there? >>Yeah, I'd emphasized that speed really matters today, right? That we're really looking at. How do you go and deploy new applications faster, right? New ways to get engaged with customers. I mean, it's not happening physically anymore. So how is it happening while it's happening largely through applications? And so as you now basically develop new applications more quickly, containers are a way to speed the pace of applications, and the theme that you know we continue to drive home is that that means infrastructure has to respond more quickly, and it means that for the teams that are managing infrastructure, it really helps if you have a consistent model where you can get mawr done with the same teams and leverage all the experience you have, as well as the security and infrastructure resiliency model that we're bringing together to our customers. >>This brings up the real question, and if this comes up, kind of you see more of the executive level like we need to have a modern application direction. They'll go. Everyone goes, Yeah, of course. Thumbs up. Then they go Try to make that a reality because even though Dev ops and Infrastructures Code is still the viable path, it's hard. It's like Caitlin, we're talking about EJ to core Data center hybrid the multi cloud. There's a lot going on under the hood there. So you guys are doing a lot of stuff together. VM Ware and Dell Technologies. What's the solution for customers? They gotta move faster. As lead pointed out, Caitlin, how are you guys working together to make that infrastructure more modern, faster, programmable and reliable, >>and make it simpler for the customers right? I think it really comes down to one of the most powerful things about the partnership is that from the dull technology standpoint, we have really a plethora of different solutions to support your VM or environment. Whether it's a three tier architecture with Power Edge power store or leveraging the X rail. Or very commonly, it's gonna be both of those. You have the right infrastructure to support the production workloads and have a consistent operating model between them leveraging devils and primary storage side and all the integrations we have with the ex rail. And then we have with power, protect data manager Great integrations in some recent enhancements that make that even better and are now able to protect Tan Xue, protect the VCF management domain and not only have the storage, but also the protection for that environment. But do it in a way that supports what the V A madman needs and also gives that consistent protection, consistent storage, consistent operating model for the rest of I T. And at the same time you're enabling the developers to move faster. >>Lee, You guys have been doing a lot of joint development, and we've been covering a lot of the news VM world. Ah, lot of joint engineering, a lot of joint integrations. You guys have been collaborating with Dell Technologies for a long time. Also, the relationship. Where is that Today? Can you expand on that a little bit and take a minute to explain the joint >>collaboration? I'll start with the fact that you know, good marketing is really easy when you have great engineering. And so the work that we're doing together, like between our companies. Now we have a lot to talk about, right? E mean the work scaling mentioned right around Devil's integration, for example, on power Max right on da npower store, right? I mean, you start looking at the integration work that we're doing together. It means that customers are getting the benefits of the joint integration work and testing right that comes and so you're guaranteed out of the box toe work. Also, you know, don't forget that contain owners and all of the things we're doing around containers. It's basically designed thio accommodate the fact that containers air spun up more quickly or destroyed more quickly, their shared across the hybrid cloud more frequently and without an inherent security model and built in data protection. It's really hard to go and see how you can deploy these with the enterprise resilience that's demanded at enterprise scale. And so that's what we're doing together, right? And, you know, we build great software, Uh, but without great hardware partnerships, it's one hand clapping, right. It's about getting our teams together, right? That really makes it sing at the customer level. >>You know, I think that's a really example of the business. Performance results have come in Vienna, where you guys were doing a great job. Go way back to the years ago when Pat and Raghu we're talking with from Amazon and all. Since then, it's been joint development, join integrations, and that's a great business model for you. And so, Caitlyn, I wanna get back to you. Because at VMRO we covered Project Monterey, the new initiative for the anywhere but a year before they had Project Pacific that came toe life with product results. Tan Xue specifically, you guys have the power protect data manager that we talked about in the summer, but now for Tan Xue supported and Tan Xue environments that super relevant, can you share any updates on your end on the power protect Data Manager and Tan Xue? >>Yeah, I li I couldn't agree more that great engineering mix our jobs a lot more fun and a whole lot easier. So we've been really lucky. And the partnership we've had has really never been stronger. So yeah, but the most recent release of power protect Data Manager introduces the support for that tan xue protection. It also introduces really important things like storage, storage based policy management. So in in biosphere, when you set up a storage policy, you have data protection as part of that and you have the integration with power protect data Manager. So you're able to automatically protect new VM that are created by that storage policy of being applied. >>But >>at the same time, it's also being tracked in power. Protect Data Manager. So you have that consistency across enabling your vitamins and enabling your data protection your i t. Team. To keep track of that, we also have ah tech preview that we did at VM World about how we're working as from Dell technology standpoint to innovate around. How do you protect some of these VMS that are so large and so mission critical that you need to be able to protect them in a new and innovative way that doesn't disrupt the business. And we did a tech preview of that, and it's something you'll hear more about from us, too. But it's PM traditionally would be in this category of unprotected ble because of the impact it could have on the environment and how we're really looking to do that in a more efficient and intelligent way. So we can actually protect those be EMS. And there's there's really a whole lot more. When you talk about objects, scale and everything else that we've done, it's really exciting. And you don't think Lee and I have ever talked as much as we do now. Ah, and it's been a lot of a lot of fun. >>It's been great following both of you guys on the keep interviews over the years. The success in the vision We had early conversations about what the plans where it's kind of all playing out. So I want to congratulate both of you of VM Ware Adele Technology. So good job going forward. The collaboration. I want to get to that in a second, you'll into it. But Caitlin Lee, I want to get your thoughts because one of the big themes this year besides covert and all the issues that that's highlighting. But in the cloud world, automation has been the number one conversation we've been hearing, and with that you got machine learning all the tech around that as you abstract away. The complexity of the infrastructure to make the modern APS automation has been great. The business cross connect is everything is a service we're seeing. This is the big wave coming. Could you guys share your vision on how all this stuff you mentioned V balls and all objects scale all these things? There's a >>lot of >>plumbing underneath and a lot of tooling, a lot of part piece parts. If that gets programmable, >>automation >>kicks in, which then enables everything is the service because you guys both share your vision of what that means in terms of what's going to change and what would it impact the customer? >>Yeah, and it's very relevant for this week, right? Dell Technologies world. That's a big part of what we've announced this week in our commitment to really bringing our portfolio as a service, and it's really interesting, especially for folks like Lee and I, who have been doing kind of mawr product marking and talking about speeds and feeds and thinking about how you make the product life simpler. And how do you automate that? Have the intelligence built in things like Biaro have been such an important part of that, especially with power store coming to market. But if you think about where that leads us, actually changes everything, which is when you have everything as a service and we're really delivering outcomes to our customers and no longer products. That automation is actually just a important and maybe even more important. But it's not the end user that cares about it directly is actually us, because as Dell Technologies, we become the ones managing that infrastructure, owning that infrastructure and the more automation we can bring in, the more intelligence we can build them for ourselves. The more insights we can give to our customers, the better that service can become. And it's really a flip from how we've always been thinking about and really rolling out automation. It's not actually about enabling our end users to do anything. It's actually about enabling them to not worry about any of it, but enable our own organization to support their outcomes better. So it really changes everything. >>Lee, what's your thoughts on this? Everything you've got, V Sphere V Center. You've got all the storage you got all the back up. All this stuff has to be automated. Makes sense. But as a service, how does that impact your world? >>You know, it really does. When you think about the VMRO Cloud Foundation, right, which is the integration of all of our V sphere with Visa. And with these, you know, our NSX products that will be realized. Management suite. Tom Zoo now, right, All of this pulled together. One of things that's interesting is when you go to the public cloud, we have some experience now where we always deliver that full stack together. And what that does is it frees up customers. Thio, go on, focus on the applications, I think and stop looking down the infrastructure. Start looking up at the APS. And so we're offering and bringing that same level of experience to the on premises data centers. And now bridging that across the hybrid cloud that all of a sudden gives you this sense that Hey, I'm future ready. No, matter where I am today. If I'm thinking about the hybrid cloud, I could go on move there, right. And with our partnership with Dell Technologies, there's such a great opportunity to bridge that uniquely, by the way across all of my on premises infrastructure, including common policy based management, back into storage through RV Valls efforts, right and then back in through objects scale right into objects based, uh, applications and through our DP efforts to data protection efforts, then back into, like, date full data protection. And so what you get now is we're helping customers realize that I got this. I could take new Cooper navies orchestrated applications and I could make them work and do it with the same operational model that I have today. Start spending more time on the applications, less time, basically configuring and managing underlying infrastructure. >>Caitlin you mentioned that earlier at the top of the segment, ease of use, making it easier, simpler, great stuff on the on on the future. Lee, I gotta ask you about Project Monterey. We did a lot of coverage on VM World on silicon angle in the Cube. I love how this comes out. It's always, You know, the brain trust that VM Ware lays out the future, they fill it in throughout the year, expect to see some meat on the bone there. But what is that gonna do from for new capabilities and how with Dell Technologies? Because, um, it's end to end, right this Michael Dell and I talked, I think, two years ago, a Dell Tech world. And then last year, he hit the point home hard and to end with Dell Technologies. It kind of feels like it's gonna be a good fit. Could you share how that Monterey project fits in with Dell Technologies? >>Yeah. We're so pleased to be showing this together with Dell Technologies at the VM World to showcase this new idea that you could basically go on, start offloading CPUs and using smart knicks as a way to basically now provide, um or let's call it a, You know, a architecture that allows you to, uh, be responsive to new application needs. So let me talk a little bit about that. So when we opened up Tansu, right, we got this complete inflow pouring of new container base kubernetes orchestrated APS. So what? We found was, Hey, they're driving a lot of CPU needs their driving a lot of scale out security needs for things like distributed firewalls. And so we started looking at this, and what's clear is we need to basically use the CPU very judiciously, So it's basically reserved for the APS. And so what we're doing now is we're basically saying there's an opportunity for us to go in, offload the CPU for things that look more like infrastructure, including S X, I and other things. And at the same time, then we could go and work together with Dell Technologies to be the deployment vehicle. And so, just like Project Pacific, which was going broad, if you will, this project moderate, which is going deep like the canyon, John not far from here, um is, you know, a source of all new discovery right where we'll be working together and over time, just like the Project Pacific name faded to black and became product Tan Xue vcf with Tom juvie sphere. With Hangzhou, we'll see that Project Monterey will evolve into new products coming together with Dell Technologies. >>Caitlin, can you elaborate on Take a min, explain the product how this renders into products because I can also imagine just the benefits just from a security standpoint. Efficiency. If the platform, um, there's a range of things, could you take a minute to >>explain the >>impact on products? >>Yeah, I think you'll hear a lot more about it, but we're obviously excited to be partners on this is Well, and I think it's It's just another example of the more intelligent the infrastructure can become than the rest of the entire I T organization can run more efficiently and that that can come in the form of the A. I built into power, Max, that can come in the form of the evils that we have both in Power Max and Power Store that can come in the form of even just the fact that we have now built a fully containerized S three compatible objects or platform called objects scale which we have no in early access. Um, that can run on the V sand data persistence platform, and it just gives you the ability to leverage this all of the right technology. And we can continue to really partner on that. I think Project Monterey really opens up even more opportunities to do that, and you'll certainly hear more from us on that in the future. >>I >>mean, you got compression, you got encryption. A lot of benefits across the board. Great to have you guys both on and your graduation. The great event. Final question for both of you, talk about this has been a crazy year. We're not face to face, so everything will be online. What should customers and partners and people watching know about the relationship between VM Ware and Dell Technologies this year? What's the big message to take away? What should people walk away with and and think about? >>I think it's It's never been stronger than ever, uh, than it's been than it is right now. We have never had >>more >>breath and more depth of integration. I think that the partnership on the engineering level, on the product management level on the marketing level, we have really never been in a better place. And you know what? What? My team is really enjoyed with VM world season and you're coming up on Deltek. World season is we've really enjoyed the fact that we've had so much richness >>of >>that integration to talk >>about, and >>we also know there's even more coming. So I, you know, from from my standpoint, if we really feel it and probably the best and most rewarding time we hear about that, is when we bring new things into market, we hear that back. And when Power Store came into the market and over the past few right kind of first months in market, one of the most resounding feedback that has come out as one of the most differentiated parts is that it? It's so incredibly integrated with VM ware. But we've even gotten questions from analysts asking, you know, did you purposely make it feel like you are really working similarly to a B M or environment? And you know what? That just shows how closely we have been working as organizations is that it comes a very seamless experience for our customers. >>Lee Final Word. >>What >>should people walk away with this year on the relationship between Be and we're in Dell Technologies? >>Well, I think the best partnerships right are ones that are customer driven. And what you're finding here is customers. They're actually encouraging us, right? We're doing a lot of three way meetings now, right where customers like, Hey, tell me how you're going to go involved this. How do I How do I basically modernized right and preserve my existing investment, perhaps Or, you know, update here, Or how do I grow like customers have really complex individual situations. And what you confined right is that we're helping jointly not, you know, just simply with the engineering side, which is awesome, but also with the idea that we're helping customers go on deploy responsibly in a time where it's very difficult to plan. And so if you come to us, we can help you jointly plan for the future in uncertain times and make sure that you're gonna be successful. And that's just a great feeling when you're a customer looking at, How do you deploy going forward in this? You know, with the amount of pace of change that we've got, >>I want to congratulate. Both of you have been following you guys. Success has been proven out on the business results and also the products and the enablement that you guys are providing customers been great. Thanks for coming on. Great to see both of you have a great event. Thanks for. Come on. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure. >>Okay, I'm John for your here with the Cube. Covering Del Technology Worlds Digital experience 2020 The Cube Virtual. >>Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the cue with digital coverage of active EO data driven 2020. Brought to you by activity. We're back. This is the cubes coverage. Our ongoing coverage of active FiOS data driven. Of course, we've gone virtual this year. Ash. Ashutosh is here. He's the founder, president and CEO of Active Eo. Great to see you again. >>Likewise, They always always good to see you. >>We have We're in a little meet up, You and I in Boston. I always enjoy our conversations. Little did we know that, You know, a few months later, we would only be talking at this type of distance and, uh and of course, it's sad. I mean, a data driven is one of our favorite events is intimate, its customer content driven. The theme this year is you call it the next normal. Some people call it the new abnormal, the next normal. What's that all about? >>I think it's pretty pretty fascinating to see when we walked in in March, all of us were shocked by the effect of this pandemic. And for a while we all scrambled around trying to figure out How do you react to this one, and everybody reacted very differently. But most people have this tendency to think that this is going to be a pretty broom environment with lots of unknown variables, and it is important for us to try to figure out how to get a get our hands on this. By the time we came on. For six weeks into that, almost all of us have figured out this is Ah, this is not something you fight again. This is not something you wait, what, it to go away? But this is one. Did you figure out how to live in and you figured out how to work around it? And that, we believe, is the next long. It's not about trying to create a new abnormal. It's not about creating a new normal, but it's truly one that basically says that is it. That is a way, perhaps packed forward. There's a is a way to create this next normal, and you just figured out how to live with the environment, behalf and the normal outcomes of companies that have done remarkably well as a result of these actions. Fact. If you're being one of them, >>it's quite amazing isn't it? I mean, I've talked to a lot of tech companies, CEOs and their customers, and it's almost like they feel the first reaction was course they cared about their there, their employees and their broader families. Number one number two was many companies, as you know, saw a tailwind, and it initially didn't want to be seen as ambulance chasing. And then, of course, the entrepreneurial spirit kicked in and they said, Okay, we can only control what we can control and tech companies in particular just exceedingly Well, I don't think anybody really predicted that early >>on. Yeah, I, um I think of the heart, We're all human beings, and the first reaction was to take it off. Four constituencies, right? One. Take care of your family. Take it off your community, take care of your employees, take care of your customers. And that was the hardest part. The first 4 to 6 weeks was to figure out How do you do each of those four. Once you figured that part out or you figured out ways to get around to making sure you can take it off those you really found the next mom, you really start forgetting our out of continue to innovate Could, you know to support each of those four constituencies and people have done different things. I know it's amazing how, um, Cuba continues to operate As far as a user is concerned, they're all watching anymore. Yes, we don't have the wonderful desk, and we all get to chat and look in the eye. But the content of the messages asked powerful as what it waas a few months ago. So I'm sure this is how we're all going to figure out how to make through this new next normal >>and digital transformation kind of went from from push to pull. I mean, every conference you go to, they say, Well, look at uber, you know, look at Airbnb and it put up the examples you have to do this to, and then all of sudden the industry dragged you along. Some Curis esta is toe. How and and I guess the other point there is digital means data. We've said that many, many times. If you didn't have a digital strategy during the height of the lock down, you couldn't transact business and still many restaurants is still trying to figure this out, But so how did it affect you and your customers? >>Yeah, it's very interesting. And I we spend a lot of time with several of our customers were managing some of the largest I T organizations. We talk about very interesting phenomena that happened some better beginning of this year. About 20 years ago, we used to worry about this thing called the Digital Divide, those who have access the network and Internet and those who don't. And now there is this beta divide, the divide between organizations that know how to leverage, exploit and absolutely excellent the business using data and those adorable. I think we're seeing this effect so very clearly among organizations that unable to come back and address some of this stuff. And it's fascinating. Yes, we all have the examples off the lights off. People are doing delivery. People are doing retailing, but there are so many little things you're seeing organizations. And just the other day, he had a video from Century Days Is Central Data System, which is helping accelerate Cohen 19 research because it will get copies of the data faster than they would get access to data so that these are just much, much faster. Sometimes you know, several days to a few minutes. It's that that level of effect, it's not just down to some seven. You know, you almost think of it as nice to have, but it's must have life threatening stuff. Essential stuff or just addressing. Korea was running a very pretty in a wonderful article about this supercomputer in That's Doing an Aristo covert 19 and how it's figured out most of these symptoms they're able to figure out by just crunching a ton of data. And almost every one of those symptoms that the computer has predicted Supercomputer is predicted has being accurate. It's about data. It is absolutely about data, which is why I think this is a phenomenal time for companies. Toe Absolutely go change. Make this information about data exploration, data leverage, exploitation. And there's a ton of it all over all around us. >>Yeah, and and part of that digital transformation, the mandate is to really put data at the core. I mean, we've we've certainly seen this with the top market cap companies. They've got dated at the core, and and now, as they say it's it's become a A mandate. And, you know, there's been several things that we've clearly noticed. I mean, you saw the work from home required laptops and, you know, endpoint security and things of that. VD. I made a comeback, and certainly Cloud was there. But I've been struck by the reality of multi Cloud. I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic early on. >>Yeah, >>I said many times I thought it was more of a symptom than it was a strategy, but it's that's completely flipped. Ah, recently in r e t r surveys, we saw multi cloud popping up all over the place. I wonder what you're seeing when you talk to your customers and other CEOs. >>Yeah, So fascinating, though really is the first flower part of sometime in 2018. End of 2018 >>Go right, Yeah, >>the act if you'll go on world, which is a phenomenal way to completely change the way you think about the using object storage in the flower for two years that we saw about 20% of our business. By the end of two years, the beginning of this year, 20% of our business was built on never it in the cloud since March. So that was end of our almost ended the Q one. So now we just limit left you three in six months. We added 12 more percent of the business literally weeded in six months. What we did not do before for 18 months before that, right? Significantly more than what we did for a year and a half before that. And there are really three reasons and we see this old nor again, we have a large customer. We closed in January. Ironically, were deploying out of UK, a very large marketing organization. Got everything deployed, running the they're back up and beyond and a separate data center. And they had a practical problem of not being able to access the second sight literally in the middle of deployment. Mystere that customer, Did you see me Google Cloud? Because they were simply no way for them to continue protecting their data, being able to develop new applications with that data that simply had no access. So there was. This was the number one reason the inability for already physically access, but put their their employees at rest and have before the plow would be the infrastructure. That's number one, so that first of all, drove the reason for the cloud. And then there's a second reason there are practical reasons. And why some clerk platforms that good one working the other ones are not. So where, uh, some other more fuels. And so if I'm an organization that has that spans everything, I've got no power PC and X 86 machine A vm I got container platforms. I got Oracle. They got a C P. There is no single cloud platform that supports all my work loaders efficiently. It's available in all the agents I want. So inevitably I have to go at our different about barefoot. So that's a second practical visa. And then there's a strategic reason. No, when no customer what's really locked into anyone card back at least two. You're gonna go pear more likely? Three. So those are the reasons. And then, interestingly enough, have you were on a panel with as global Cee Io's and in addition to just the usual cloud providers of you all know and love inside the U. S. Across the world, in Europe, in Asia, there's a rise off the regional flower fire. See you take all this factor. So have you got absolute physical necessity? You got practical constraints of what can the club provided support the strategic reasons on why either Because I don't want to be locked into a part for better or because there is a rise off data nationalism that's going on, that people want to keep their data within the country bombs all of these reasons. But the foundations or why multiplier is almost becoming a de facto. It's impossible. What a decent size organization to assume. They were just different on one car ready. >>The big trend we're seeing, I wonder if you could comment. Is this this notion of the data life cycle of the data pipeline? It's a very complex situation for a lot of organizations, their data siloed. We hear that a lot. They have data scientists, data engineers, developers, data quality engineers, just a lot of different constituencies and lines of business. And it's kind of a mess. And so what they're trying to do is bring that together. So they've done that data. Scientists complain they spend all their time wrangling data, but but ultimately the ones that are succeeding to putting data at the core is, we've just been discussing are seeing amazing outcomes by being able to have a single version of the truth, have confidence in that data, create self serve for their for their lines of business and actually reduce the end and cycle times. It's driving your major monetization, whether that's cost cutting or revenue. And I'm curious as to what you're seeing. You guys do a lot of work. Heavy work in Dev ops and hard core database those air key components of that data Lifecycle. Yeah, you're seeing in that regard regarding that data pipeline. >>Yeah, it's a It's a phenomenal point if you really want to go back and exploit data within an organization. If you really want to be a data driven organization, the very first thing you have to do is break down the silos. Ironically, every organization has all the data required to make the decisions they want to. They just can't either get to it or it's so hard to make the silos. That is just not what trying to make it happen. And 10 years ago we set out on this mission rather than keep this individual silos of data. Why don't we flip it open and making it a pipeline, which looks like a data cloud where essentially anybody who's consuming it has access to it based on the governance rules based on the security rules that the operations people have said and based on the kind of format they want to see data. Not everyone even want to see the data in a database. Former, maybe you want the database for my convert CSP for my before you don't analytics And this idea of making data, the new infrastructure, this idea of having the operations people provide this new layer for data, it's finally come to roost. I mean, it's it's fascinating. I was the numbers last quarter. We just finished up. You do now. 45% of our customer base is uses activity or for reuse is the back of data for things that excellent. The business things that make the business move faster, more productive or you will survive. That was the mission. That was what we set out to do 10 years ago. We were talking to an analyst this morning, and now this is question off. You know, it looks like there's a team of backup data being reused, said Yeah, that's kind of what we've been saying for 10 years. Backup cannot be an insurance back up in order to your destination. It has to be something that you could use as an asset and that I think it's finally coming to the point with you can use back up a single source of truth only if you designed it right from the beginning. For that purpose, you cannot just lots of lots of ways to fake it. Make it try to pretend like you're doing it. But that was a trooper was off making date of the new infrastructure, making it a cloud, making it something that is truly an ask. And it's fascinating to see our businesses. You take any of our larger counts and the way they've gone about transforming not just basic backup. India. Yes, we are the world's glasses back up in most Kayla will be our solution. That's that's a starting point. But do we will be used after Devil applications 8, 10 times faster? Ron Analytics, 100 ex pastor. The more data you have, the more people who use data you have, the better this return makeups. >>You know, that is interesting to hear you talk about that because that has been the holy Grail of backup. Was toe go beyond insurance to actually create business value. And you're actually seeing some underlying trends We talked about that data pipeline in one of the areas that is the most interesting is in database, which was so boring for so many years. Ah, and you're seeing new workloads emerge. Take the data warehouse beyond your reporting. Never really lived up to its Ah, it's promise of 360 degree view. You mentioned analytics. That's really starting toe happen. Ah, and it's all about data John, for Used to say that your data is that is the new development kit. You call it the new infrastructure, and it's sort of the same same type of theme. So maybe some of the trends you're seeing in ah in database enoughto talk about that for a little bit and then pick your brains and some other tech like object storage is another one that we've really seen takeoff? >>Yeah. So I think our journey with object story began in 16 4017 as we started or Doctor Cloud platform in response to the user requirements, Uh, we did more like most companies have done and unfortunately continue to do to take the in print product. And then it's smooth under the cloud. And one of the things we saw was there was a fundamental difference off how the design points of flower engineering is all about what they're designed it for object story, that one of those one of those primitives fundamental stories, primitives that the cloud providers actually produced that we know really exploited. There was. It was used as a graveyard for data. It's a replacement for me, please, where data goes to die. And then we look at it really closely and say, Well, this is actually a massively scalable, very low cost storage, but it has some problems. It has an interface that you cannot use with traditional servers. Uh, it has some issues around not being able to read, modify right the data. So it feels like a consuming a lot of stories. So we're going to solve those problems because a good two years to come back with something on world that fundamentally creeds objects the lady like this massive use capable high performer disk? Yes, except it is ridiculously low cost and optimize the capacity. So this finger on world that patented has really become the foundation of how everything in our works without using CPU Ray, that is simply nothing at a lower PCO that if you wanted to basic backup, the, uh, more importantly, use that to do this a massive analytics and you don't know more data warehouse data leaks. It is not a good deal of Lake House aladi. All of these are still silent. All of these are people trying to take some data from somewhere put into one of the new construct and have it being controlled by somebody else. This is artist thing. It's just you just move the silos from some place to another place instead of creating a pipeline. If you want to really create a pipeline object story has been integral part of the pipeline, not a separate bucket by itself. And that's what we did. And same thing with databases, you know, most business, most of the critical business and I was on a daily basis, and the ability to find a way to leverage those. Move them on our leverage in terms of whichever format databases access. Which location or Saxes doesn't know how big it is. Lots of work has gone into trying to figure figure that one out. And we we had some very, very good partners in some of the largest customers who help take the journey with us. I'm pretty much all of the global 2000 accounts you see across the board, but an integral part of a process. >>You mentioned the word journey and triggered a thought. Is your discussion with Robbie, the CEO of of Seeing >>A. It was a customer years. >>Ah, and what he said. I liked what he said. He course he used the term journey. We all do. But he said, You know what? I kind of don't like that term because I want to inject the sense of urgency essentially what he was saying. I want speed, you know, journeys like Okay, kids get in the car, were in a drive across country. We're gonna make some stops. And so, while there's a journey, he also was was really trying to push the organization hard and he talked about culture. Ah, as some of the most difficult things and it goes like many. See, I said, Now the technology is almost the easy part. It's true when it works. Oh, I thought that was a great discussion that you had. What were some of your takeaways >>with thinking? Robbie's is very astute. Ah, I t executive was being around the block for so long and one of the fascinating things, but a asking this question about what's the biggest challenge was just gone through this a couple of times. What is the biggest challenge? Taking an organization as vulnerable as well known A C gate is. I mean, this is a data company. This is This is the heart of the Oliver Half the world's data is on seeing stuff. How are you today was, or company has been around for long in the middle of Silicon Valley and make it into ah into a fast growing transformation company that's responding to the newer challenges. And I thought he was going to come back with Well, you know, I gotta go to the abuses. I picked this technology that techno in. Surely that is exactly what I expected he would end up with. There's nothing through technology in this day and age when you can have an Elon Musk and send a card of Mars. It's not many technologies that we can really solve many covered 19 ism. Next one Do we gotta go solve? Well, frankly, he kid upon the one thing that matters to every company. It is the fundamental culture to create a biased of action. It's a fundamental culture where you have to come back and have a deliverable that moves the ball forward every day, every month, every quarter, as opposed to have this CDs off. Like you said, a journey that say's and we all know this right? People talk about, we're going to do this in face one. We're gonna do this and face to and good food release and face three nothing and what happens Invasive. Nobody gets a number feast. I think he did a great job of saying I fundamentally had to go change the culture that was my biggest take away, and this I've heard this so many times the most effective I D execs wait a transformation. It actually shows in the people that they have. It's not the technology, it's the people. And some. This history is replete with organizations that have done remarkably well, not by leveraging the heck out of the technology, but truly by leveraging the change in the people's mindset. And, of course, that at that point that leverages technology where a proper here. But Robbie's a insightful person, always such a They lied to talk them, said they like for him to have chosen us as a its information technology for him to go pull his data warehouses and completely transformed how I was doing manufacturing across the globe. >>You know, I want to have some color of what you just said because some key keep takeaways that from what you just said, ashes is You know, you're right when you look back at the history of the computer industry used to be very well known processes, but the technology was the big mystery and the and the big risk and you think about with Cove it were it not for Technology Way didn't know what was coming. We were inventing new processes literally every day, every week, every month. It's so technology was pretty well understood. It and enabled that. And when you when you think when we talked earlier about putting data at the core, it was interesting to hear Robbie. He basically said, Yeah, we had a big data team in the U. S. A big tainted TV in Europe. We actually organized around silos and and so you guys played a role you were very respectful about, you know, touting active video with him. You did ask him, You know what role you play, But it is interesting to hear and talk about how he had to address that both culturally. And of course, there's technology underneath to enable that unification of data that silo busting, if you will. And you guys played a role in that. >>Yeah, I always enjoy, um, conversation with folks who have taken a problem, identified what needs to be done and then just get it done. And its That's more fascinating than you. Of course, I video plays a small part in a lot of things, and we're proud to have played a small part in his big initiative, and that's true of know the thousands of customers we talk about. But it's such a fascinating story to have leaders who come back and make this transformation happen, and to understand how they went about making those decisions, how they identified where the problem with these are so hard. We all see them in our own life, right? We see there is a there's a problem, but sometimes it takes a wider don't understand. How do you identify them and what do you have to do and more importantly, actually do it? And so whenever use, whenever I get an opportunity with people like Robbie, I think understanding that there's a way to help, uh, we always make sure that we play our own small part, and we're privileged to be a part of those kinds of journeys. >>Well, I think what's interesting about activity on the company that you created is essentially that. We're talking about the democratisation of data, that whole data pipeline, that discussion, that we had the self service of that data to the lines of business and, you know, you guys clearly play a role there. The multi cloud discussion fits into that. I mean that these air all trends that are tail winds for companies that can that can help sort of you know, flattened the data globe. If you if you will, your final thoughts. >>Yeah, I know you said something that is so much at the heart of every idea Exactly that you're talking to, if they truly is. The fundamental asset that I finally end up with is an organization. The democratization of data. Where I do not lock this into another silo, another platform, another ploughed. Another application has to be part of my foundation design and therefore my ability to use each of this cloud platform for the services they provide. While I and they were to move the data to where I needed to be. That is so critical. So you almost start to think about the one possession and organization now has. And we talked about this with a group of CEOs. They might be some pretty soon. Not too far off, but data stolen asset. I might actually have our data mark data market, just like you. I was stopped working, but I can start to sell my data. You know, imagine a coup in 19. There's so many organization that have so much data, and many of them have contributed to this research because this is an existence of issue. But you can see this turning into a next level. So, yes, we've got activities, will move the data toe one level higher where it's become a foundation construct for the organization. The next part is gonna actually done. This is the one asset would actually monetize someone stuff. And it will be not too long when you need to talk about how there's this new exchange and what's the rate of data for this company? Was, is that company in the future trading options? Who knows is gonna be really interesting. >>Well, I think you're right on this notion of a data. Marketplaces is coming, and it's not not that far away, Blash. It's always great to talk to you. I hope next year a data driven weaken we could be face to face. But I mean, look, this has been we we've dealt with it. It's it's actually created opportunities for us toe to reinvent ourselves. So congratulations on the success that you've had and ah, and thank you for coming on the Cube. >>No, thank you for hosting us and always a big fan off Cube. You guys, you engage with you since early days, and it is fascinating to see how this company has grown. And it's probably many people don't even know how much you've grown behind the seats, technologies and culture that you created yourself. So it's hopefully one day we'll strict the table that I would be another side and asking of our transformation. Digital transformation of Cuban cell >>I would love to. I'd love to do that index again. And thank you, everybody for watching our continuous coverage of active fio data driven keeper Right there. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. >>Thank you.

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation CIOs and CISOs of industries that have been hard hit see significant near term and many permanent shifts to their IT and security strategies this was the consensus of four technology executives at leading companies that are feeling the brunt of the corona virus pandemic welcome to this week's cube insights powered by ETR my name is Dave Volante and in this breaking analysis we want to accomplish three things first we want to tap into a new piece of research from ETR it involves an intimate focus group like set up via an open discussion with leading technology executives we interviewed Eric Bradley the managing director of et ours then program and we'll bring him into this discussion the next thing we want to do is we want to drill in to the various sector commentaries from the four leaders third we're gonna comment an hour take try to add some color and then share with you some of the specific vendor commentary that was called out by the executives let's start by looking at what et our event is et our van is a roundtable discussion it applies a tried-and-true methodology similar to a focus group or in-depth interviews what we sometimes in the research business call ID is ETR invites execs in from its community to participate in a private but open conversation et our clients get to listen in the names of the execs and their companies are transparent but the cube is only allowed to refer to them generically as shown on this slide now we can validate these participants they are legit CIOs and CISOs some and very well-known firms now what I want to do is summarize the CIO and seaso sentiment from this then discussion the overall budget impact for these four organizations is very very severe essentially large project projects are being put on hold although digital transformation initiatives remain a priority there were really four significant areas of emphasis that were cited by these execs cloud-first on-prem is losing out to cloud SAS and of course remote access solutions in fact the best comment on the panel was as a service is saving our SAS traditional networking is shifting to SD win especially rigid MPLS networks securing endpoints and zero trust solutions are the winners and there are a number of vendors rising to the occasion that will talk about it let's see how Eric Bradley of ETR summarizes the venn to summarize what we're seeing here was the real winners and losers are clear not everyone was prepared to have it work from home strategy not everyone was prepared to send their workers out there VPN wasn't didn't have enough bandwidth so there was a real quick uptick in spending but longer-term we're starting to see that these changes will be become more permanent so the real winners and losers right now we're going to see on the losers side traditional networking the MPLS networking isn't a lot of trouble according to all the data and the commentary that we see it's expensive it's difficult to ramp up bandwidth as quickly as you need and it doesn't support remote ok what I want to do now is I want to take a look at some of the verbatim comments and I'll just I'll read them from this slide all spending is shut down 70% of big projects are cut all next-gen projects have been shelled the relationship with our SAS vendor has been a miracle we're accelerating from MPLS to sd when on top of secure gateway technologies these will win this was interesting our business continuity plans were way too DR focused essentially we weren't prepared now let's unpack the cloud first commentary and give you some additional color I feel like all we do around here sometimes is talk about the cloud but it's clear from the data in the ETR data set surveys and the venn that in other data from the cube that that the cloud is only going to be accelerated we said this in 2008 in the 2009 downturns have been good to cloud one of the execs literally said I would like to see my data centers completely deleted Wow let's listen to Erik Bradley's take on this comment I was also shocked about that comment that gentleman also stated that his executives outside of the eyeteeth area the CEO the CFO had never ever ever wanted to discuss cloud they did not want to discuss work from home they did not want to discuss remote access he said that conversation has changed immediately so we've been talking a lot about those aspects of people and process and technology that might be permanent post kovat and clearly you see c-level execs as having a bit of an awakening for things like cloud and work from home not that they didn't see them before but these things are gonna accelerate in our view I want to spend a minute talking about networks SAS and bring cloud again into the discussion I gotta say the panel members really trashed MPLS networks in a big way let me explain MPLS stands for multi-protocol label switching you find this type of infrastructure in big telecom networks and it's there to route traffic and pls is used to create dedicated and and essentially reliable connections it enables things like VPNs quality a service management traffic engineering or shaping but well MPLS is definitely cheaper than t1 it's more expensive than Ethernet now I came into prominence well before the cloud and these execs see it is as outdated and inflexible and this is where SD wind comes into play software-defined wide area networks they're gaining popularity especially with the Sassa fication of applications and of course the general trend toward cloud here's Eric Bradley again explaining what the panel members said from his perspectives winners there or in the SD web space it's gonna be impossible to ignore that going forward and some of our CIO and even CISO panelists said that change will be also we're seeing at the same time what they were calling a on on SAS and cloud now we know these trends obviously were already happening but there be they're being exacerbated they're happening even more quickly and more strong and I don't see that changing anytime soon that of course is at the expense of network sorry data centers whether it be your own or hosted which has huge ramifications on from on from Hardware even the firewall providers so and it really seems as if as networking refresh starts to come up and it's coming up with a lot of large in writes when your network refresh comes up people are going to do an RFP for SD web they are sick and tired of paying MPLS network vendors and they really want to look at something else that was even prior to this situation now what we're hearing is this is a permanent change I particularly had one person say I wanted to find this quote real quickly by then but basically they were basically saying that from a permanency perspective the freedom from MPLS will reduce our network spend by over half while more than doubling or tripling or bandwidth now the challenge of course is customers have multiple MPLS contracts with several different vendors and often they just rubber-stamp the renewal but what customers are gonna start doing is layering in SD win and letting those agreements expire ok I want to talk about secure endpoints in this notion of zero trust solutions as I've said in the cube many many times the idea of digging a moat around the castle doesn't protect your queen anymore because the Queen ie the data has left the castle so companies that can secure gateways and secure endpoints they are going to have more momentum during and post kovat now in the panel Z scalar came up a lot in this context as well as fortunate who as I've reported has done a good job in getting its cloud products to market and of course the et our data shows that fortunate and Z scalar both have strong net scores or spending momentum and fort net especially has really strong pervasiveness in the et our dataset as I've reported previously I've also analyzed that there's been evaluation divergence between Palo Alto Networks and fortunate and house II scalar as well is a disruptor in this space I want you to listen to what Eric Bradley said specifically about Z scalar in Palo Alto Networks roll the clip yes it is and I'm glad you brought up Z scalar to very recently by client request we did a very in-depth research on Z scale and versus Palo Alto charisma access and they were very interested this is before all this happened you know does Palo Alto have a chance of catching up taking share from Z scalar and I've had the pleasure myself personally hosting J the CEO of Z scalar at an event here at City and I have nothing but incredible respect for the company but what we found out through this research is Z scalar at the moment their technology is still ahead according to their and there is no doubt however there doesn't seem to be any real secret sauce that will stop palo alto from inching up so if I had to choose that in a year from now Palo Alto might have had a better chance so in this panel as you brought up Z scalar was mentioned numerous times as just the wave of the future along with Cosby brokers right whether you're talking about a net scope or a force point they're all those people that also play in The Cosby space to secure your access zero Trust is no longer a marketing hype term it is real and it is becoming more real by the week now I personally agree with Eric that palo alto is is definitely going to be in the mix customers that we've talked to they want to work with palo alto networks but there's a sea change going on and it's being driven by sass and cloud and now accelerating because a co vid of course that the trend of remote workers is we think here to stay now i want to end by talking about some specific vendor mentions in addition to the ones we've talked about already and this chart shows some of the vendors and their logos that were called out as either being really really helpful during the this pandemic or super important to the CIOs and CISOs these executives really stressed how thankful they are to these companies and that the fact that these companies have worked very closely with them they've been flexible on pricing and payments and they also specifically mentioned how off-put they were by you know this notion of ambulance-chasing for example trials that required them to make some kind of commitment or swipe a credit card they just don't have time for that right now and then of the patience for it now let me call out a few of the companies that were cited in a positive light look at microsoft is all for the ETR data set in so many sectors Microsoft teams security solutions cloud really came up a lot on on this ven IBM was mentioned as being a great partner as what's oracle many many times we talked about fortunate and Z scalar already Cisco was called out as a strategic vendor was very helpful both the networking and with Cisco teams for collaboration CrowdStrike came up a number of times from CISOs as did Trend Micro and carbon black got a mention that's the VMware acquisition insecurity of course MobileIron that makes sense as well because they're securing and managing remote worker devices now finally interesting Lee Salesforce was brought up many times as a critical vendor one exec said that before coronavirus multiple workers could share a Salesforce license by you know sharing passwords but with the spike and work from home they had to purchase more licenses now one last thing that I want to bring up is start ups I got this question the other day from a client who said how a start-ups fair you might think that in this climate especially among for hard-hit customers that there might be risk-averse as it pertains to using startups once cio however said the following paraphrasing you always hear about the guy that says we'll pick three companies in the upper right hand corner the Gartner Magic Quadrant will test them out and this C so said that one of the things that he's always done is picked two from the upper right and one from the lower left one of the emerging techs and he gives them a shot let's listen to how Eric Bradley describes this dynamic roll the clip it's a great comment and honestly if you're in charge of procurement you'd be stupid not to do that not only just to see what the technology is but now I can play you off the big guys because I have negotiating leverage and I could say oh well I could always just take their contract so it's silly not to do it from a business perspective so it's really interesting and somewhat non-intuitive these comments on startups which of course means despite all the consolidation and acquisitions that you see in the industry you know there's still gonna be a lot of fragmentations a fragmentation especially as I've said many many times in the security space people still want best to breed and innovation and if it can drive business value they're gonna they're gonna go for it ok so look I realize that these are narrow comments from for CIOs and CISOs but they give us some added texture and flavor and color to the core ETR data set and we're going to continue to report on these trends and share more details as they become available both from the ETR data set and from other vents and remember we're gonna be digging into the latest ETR survey over the over the coming weeks as ETR exits its self-imposed quiet period so you can always check out ETR dot plus I publish weekly on wiki bang calm and on Silicon angle calm and of course our YouTube library has all these videos that's youtube.com slash silicon angle by the way these segments are also available as podcasts you can DM me or tweet me at devil ante and please by all means comment on my LinkedIn posts or email me at David Galante at Silicon angle com always appreciate the feedback thanks for watching everybody this is breaking analysis brought to you by the cube powered by ETR this is Dave Volante and we'll see you next time thanks for watching [Music]

>>from Santa Clara, California In the heart of Silicon Valley, it's the queue covering altitude 2020. Brought to you by aviatrix. >>Okay, welcome back to altitude. 2020 for the folks on the Livestream. I'm John Furrier Steve Mullaney with CEO of aviatrix for our first of two customer panels on cloud with Cloud Network Architects. We got Bobby. Will be They gone. Luis Castillo, National Instruments. David should nick with fact set. Guys, welcome >>to the stage for this digital >>event. Come on up. >>Hey, good to see you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Yeah. >>Okay. Customer panel. This is my favorite part. We get to hear the real scoop. Get the gardener. Given this the industry overview. Certainly multi clouds, very relevant. And cloud native networking is the hot trend with live stream out there in the digital events of guys. Let's get into it. The journey is you guys are pioneering this journey of multi cloud and cloud native networking and soon going to be a lot more coming. So I want to get into the journey. What's it been like? Is it really got a lot of scar tissue? Uh, what is some of the learnings >>Yeah, absolutely. So multi Cloud is whether or not we accepted as network engineers is a reality. Um, like Steve said about two years ago, companies really decided to to just to just bite the bullet and move there. Whether or not whether or not we accept that fact, we need to now create a consistent architecture across across multiple clouds and that that is challenging, um, without orchestration layers as you start managing different different tool sets and different languages across different clouds. So that's it's it's really important to start thinking about that. You >>guys are on the other Panelists here this different phases of this journey. Some come at it from a networking perspective. Some comment from a problem. Troubleshooting. Which What's your experiences? >>Yeah, so, uh, from a networking perspective, it's been incredibly exciting. It's kind of a once in a generational opportunity to look at how you're building out your network. You can start to embrace things like infrastructure as code that maybe your peers on the systems teams have been doing for years. But it just never really worked on Prem, so it's really it's really exciting to look at all the opportunities that we have And then all the interesting challenges that come up that you, uh, that you get to tackle >>and in fact said, you guys are mostly aws, right? >>Right now, though, where we are looking at multiple clouds, we have production workloads running in multiple clouds today. But a lot of the initial work has been with them, >>and you see it from a networking perspective. That's where you guys are coming at it from. Yep. Yeah. So >>we evolved more from a customer requirement. Perspective started out primarily is AWS. But as the customer needed mawr resources manager like HPC, you know, Azure A D. Things like that. Even recently, Google do analytics. Our journey has evolved into more of a multi cloud environment. >>Steve weigh in on the architecture because this has been the big conversation. I want you to lead this sector. >>Yeah, so I mean, I think you guys agreed that journey. It seems like the journey started a couple of years ago got real serious. The need for multi cloud, whether you're there today. Of course it's going to be there in the future, so that's really important. I think the next thing is just architecture. I love to hear what you you had some comments about architecture matters. It all starts. I mean, every enterprise I talked to maybe talk about architecture in the importance of architecture. Maybe Bobby >>is from architectural perspective. We started our journey five years ago. Wow. Okay. And we're just now starting our fourth evolution of our network architect. Okay? And we call it networking security. Net sec versus just network on that. Fourth generation architectures be based primarily upon Palo Alto networks and aviatrix aviatrix doing the orchestration piece of it. But that journey came because of the need for simplicity, the need for a multi cloud orchestration without having to go and do reprogramming efforts across every cloud as it comes along. >>Right? I guess. The other question, I I also had around architectures also, Louise, maybe just talk about I know we've talked a little bit about scripting right and some of your thoughts on that. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, so for us, we started, We started creating Ah, the network constructs with cloud formation. And we've stuck with that, for the most part. What's interesting about that is today on premise, we have a lot of a lot of automation around around how we provision networks, but confirmation has become a little bit like the new manual for us. So we're now having issues with having the automate that component and making it consistent with our on premise architecture, making it consistent with azure architecture and Google Cloud. So it's really interesting to see to see companies now bring that layer of abstraction that SD Wan brought to the to the wan side. Now it's going up into into the cloud networking architectures, >>right? So on the fourth generation of you mentioned, you're 1/4 gen architecture. What do you guys? What have you learned? Is there any lessons? Scar tissue, what to avoid? What worked? What was some of the >>one of the biggest lesson there is that when you think you finally figured it out, you haven't right? Amazon will change something as you change something, you know, transit gateway, the game changer eso uh, and listening to the business requirements is probably the biggest thing we need to do up front. But I think from a simplicity perspective, we said We don't want to do things four times. We want two things. One time we want to have a right to an AP I, which aviatrix has and have them do the orchestration for us so that we don't have to do it four times. How >>important is architecture in the progression, is it? You guys get thrown in the deep end to solve these problems or you guys zooming out and looking at it. I mean, how are you guys looking at the architecture? >>I mean, you can't get off the ground if you don't have the network there. So all of those things we've gone through similar evolutions. We're on our fourth or fifth evolution. Uh, I think about what We started off with Amazon without a direct connect gateway without a transit gateway without ah, a lot of the things that are available today kind of the 80 20 that Steve was talking about. Just because it wasn't there doesn't mean we didn't need it, so we >>needed to figure out a way to do it. We >>couldn't say. You need to come back to the network team in a year. Maybe Amazon will have a solution for you. We need to do it now and evolve later and maybe optimize or change. Really, you're doing things in the future, But don't sit around and wait. You can't. >>I'd love to have you guys each individually answer this question for the livestream that comes up a lot. A lot of cloud architects out in the community. What should they be thinking about? The folks that are coming into this proactively and are realizing the business benefits are there? What advice would you guys give them? An architecture, which should be they be thinking about and what some guiding principles you could share. >>So I would start with, ah, looking at an architectural model that that can, that can spread and and give consistency the different two different cloud vendors that you will absolutely have to support. Um, cloud vendors tend to want to pull you into using their native tool set, and that's good. If only it was realistic, too. Talk about only one cloud, but because it doesn't, it's it's, um, it's super important to talk about and have a conversation with the business and with your technology teams about a consistent model. >>How do I do my day one work so that I'm not spending 80% of my time troubleshooting or managing my network. Because if I'm doing that, then I'm missing out on ways that I can make improvements to embrace new technologies. So it's really important early on to figure out how do I make this as low maintenance as possible so that I can focus on the things that the team really should be focusing on. >>Bobby. Your advice? The architect. I >>don't know what else I can add to. That simplicity of operations is gives key. >>Alright, so the holistic view of Day two operation you mentioned let's could jump in. Day one is you're getting stuff set up. Day two is your life after. This is what you're getting at, David. So what does that look like? What are you envisioning as you look at that 20 mile stare out post multi cloud world one of the things that you want in a day to operations? >>Yeah, infrastructure as code is really important to us. So how do we How do we design it so that we can fit start making network changes and putting them into like, a release pipeline and start looking at it like that rather than somebody logging into a router cli and troubleshooting things on an ad hoc nature. So moving more towards the Devil Ops model. >>Here's the thing I had on that day two. >>Yeah, I would. I would love to add something. So in terms of day two operations, you can you can either sort of ignore the day two operations for a little while where you get well, you get your feet wet, um, or you can start approaching it from the beginning. The fact is that the cloud native tools don't have a lot of maturity in that space. And when you run into an issue, you're gonna end up having a bad day, going through millions and millions of logs just to try to understand what's going on. So that's something that the industry just now is beginning to realize. It's It's such a such a big gap. >>I think that's key, because for us, we're moving to more of an event driven or operations. In the past. Monitoring got the job done. It is impossible to modern monitor something that's not there when the event happens, right, so the event driven application and then detection is important. >>I think Gardner is about the Cloud Native wave coming into networking. That's going to be a serious thing. I want to get you guys perspective. I know you have different views of how you came into the journey and how you're executing. And I always say the beauty's in the eye of the beholder and that kind of applies the networks laid out. So, Bobby, you guys do a lot of high performance encryption both on AWS and Azure. That's kind of a unique thing for you. How are you seeing that impact with multi cloud? >>And that's a new requirement for us to where we, uh we have a requirement to encrypt, and they never get the question Should encryption and encrypt. The answer is always yes, you should encrypt. You should get encrypt for perspective. We we need to moderate a bunch of data from our data centers. We have some huge data centers on. Getting that data to the cloud is is timely experiencing some cases, So we have been mandated that we have to encrypt everything, leaving the data center. So we're looking at using the aviatrix insane mode appliances to be able to decrypt you know 10 20 gigabytes of data as it moves to the cloud itself. David, you're using >>terra form. You've got fire net. You've got a lot of complexity in your network. What do you guys look at the future for your environment? >>Yes. So something exciting that we're working on now is fire net. So for our security team, they obviously have a lot of a lot of knowledge based around Polito on with our commitments to our clients, you know, it's it's it's not very easy to shift your security model to a specific cloud vendor it So there's a lot of stock to compliance and things like that where being able to take some of what you've you know you've worked on for years on Prem and put it in the cloud and have the same type of assurance that things were gonna work and be secure in the same way that they are on Prem helps make that journey into the cloud a lot easier. >>And you guys got scripting and get a lot of things going on. What's your what's your unique angle on this? >>Um, yeah. No, absolutely so full disclosure. I'm not not not an aviatrix customer yet. >>It's okay. We want to hear the truth. So that's good. Tell >>us what you're thinking about. What's on your mind. >>No, really, Um, when you when you talk about, um, implementing the to like this, it's It's really just really important. Teoh talk about automation and focus on on value. So when you talk about things like encryption and thinks like so you're encrypting tunnels and encrypting the path and those things are, should it should should be second nature, Really? When you when you look at building those back ends and managing them with your team, it becomes really painful. So tools like aviatrix that that had a lot of automation. It's out of out of sight, out of mind. You can focus on the value you don't have to focus on. >>I got to ask, You guys are seeing the traces here. They're their supplier to the sector, but you guys are customers. Everyone's pitching your stuff that people are not going to buy my stuff. How >>do you >>guys have that conversation with the suppliers, like the cloud vendors and other folks? What's the What's the leg or a P? I all the way you got to support this. What are some >>of the >>what are some of your requirements? How do you talk to and evaluate people that walk in and want Teoh knock on your door and pitch you something? What's the conversation like? >>It's definitely It's definitely a p. I driven. Um, we we definitely look at the at the structure of the vendors provide before we select anything. Um, that that is always first of mine. And also, what problem are we really trying to solve? Usually people try to sell or try to give us something that isn't really valuable. Like implementing Cisco solution on the on the cloud isn't really doesn't really add a lot of value. >>David, what's your conversations like with suppliers? So you have a certain new way to do things as becomes more agile, essentially networking and more dynamic. What are some of the conversations with the other incumbents or new new vendors that you're having what you require? >>So ease of use is definitely, definitely high up there. We've had some vendors come in and say, Hey, you know, when you go to set this up, we're gonna want to send somebody on site and they're going to sit with you for a day to configure. And that's kind of a red flag. Wait a minute. You know, we really if one of my really talented engineers can't figure it out on his own, what's going on there and why is that? So, uh, you know, having having some ease of use and the team being comfortable with it and understanding it is really important. >>How about you in the old days was Do a bake off winner takes all. I mean, is it like that anymore? What's evolving Bake off >>last year for us to win, So But that's different now, because now when you when you get the product, you install the product in AWS in azure or have it up and running a matter of minutes. And the key is, can you be operational within hours or days instead of weeks? But we also have the flexibility to customize it to meet your needs, because you want to be. You would be put into a box with the other customers who have needs that pastor cut their needs. >>You can almost see the challenge of you guys are living where you've got the cloud immediate value, how you can roll a penny solutions. But then you have might have other needs. So you got to be careful not to buy into stuff that's not shipping. So you're trying to be proactive in the same time. Deal with what you got here. How do you guys see that evolving? Because multi cloud to me is definitely relevant. But it's not yet clear how to implement across. How do you guys look at this? Bakes versus, you know, future solutions coming? How do you balance that? >>Um, so again. So right now we were. We're taking the the ad hoc approach and experimenting with the different concepts of cloud on demand, really leveraging the native constructs of each cloud. But but there's there's a breaking point. For sure you don't you don't get to scale this like like Simone said, and you have to focus on being able to deliver Ah, developer their their sandbox play area for the things that they're trying to build quickly. And the only way to do that is with some sort of consistent orchestration layer that allows you to. >>So you spent a lot more stuff becoming pretty quickly. >>I was very. I do expect things to start to start maturing quite quite quickly this year, >>and you guys see similar trends. New stuff coming fast. >>Yeah, the one of the biggest challenge we've got now is being able to segment within the network, being able to provide segmentation between production, non production workloads, even businesses, because we support many businesses worldwide and and isolation between those is a key criteria there. So the ability to identify and quickly isolate those workloads is key. >>So the cios that are watching are saying, Hey, take that hill, do multi cloud and then the bottoms up organization cause you're kind of like off a little bit. It's not how it works. I mean, what is the reality in terms of implementing, you know, and as fast as possible because the business benefits are clear, but it's not always clear in the technology how to move that fast. What are some of the barriers of blockers? One of the enabler, >>I think the reality is, is that you may not think of multi cloud, but your businesses, right? So I think the biggest barriers there is understanding what the requirements are and how best to meet those requirements. I think in a secure manner, because you need to make sure that things are working from a latency perspective, that things work the way they did and get out of the mind shift that, you know, if the Tier three application in the data center it doesn't have to be a Tier three application in the cloud, so lift and shift is not the way to go. >>Scale is a big part of what I see is the competitive advantage of all of these clouds, and it used to be proprietary network stacks in the old days and then open systems came. That was a good thing. But as clouds become bigger, there's kind of an inherent lock in there with the scale. How do you guys keep the choice open? How you guys thinking about interoperability? What is some of the conversations that you guys were having around those key concepts? >>Well, when we look at when we look at the from a networking perspective, it's really key for you to just enable enable all the all the clouds to be able to communicate between them. Developers will will find a way to use the cloud that best suits their business. Um and and like Like you said, it's whether whether you're in denial or not of the multi cloud fact that your company is in already, Um, that's it becomes really important for you to move quickly. >>Yeah, and the A lot of it also hinges on how well is the provider embracing what that specific cloud is doing? So are they swimming with Amazon or azure and just helping facilitate things? They're doing the heavy lifting AP I work for you or are they swimming upstream? And they're trying to hack it all together in a messy way, and so that helps you stay out of the lock in, because there, you know if they're doing if they're using Amazon native tools to help you get where you need to be, it's not like Amazon's going to release something in the future that completely, uh, you know, makes you have designed yourself into a corner. So the closer they're more cloud native, they are, the more, uh, the easier it is to, uh >>to the boy. But you also need to be aligned in such a way that you can take advantage of the cloud Native technology of limits sets. T J W. Is a game changer in terms of cost and performance. Right. So to completely ignore, that would be wrong. But, you know, if you needed to have encryption teaching double encrypted, so you need to have some type of a gateway to do the VPN encryption. So the aviatrix, too, will give you the beauty of both worlds. You can use T. W or the gateway real >>quick in the last minute we have. I want to just get a quick feedback from you guys. I hear a lot of people say to me, Hey, the pick The best cloud for the workload you got, then figure out multi cloud behind the scenes. So that seems to be Do you guys agree with that? I mean, is it doing one cloud across the whole company or this workload works great on AWS. That work was great on this from a cloud standpoint. Do you agree with that premise? And then what is multi cloud stitch them all together? >>Yeah, um, from from an application perspective, it it can be per workload, but It can also be an economical decision. Certain enterprise contracts will will pull you in one direction that value. Um, but the the network problem is still the same. >>It doesn't go away. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be trying to fit a square into a round hole, right? So if it works better on that cloud provider, then it's our job to make sure that that service is there. People can use >>it. Yeah, I agree. You just need to stay ahead of the game. Make sure that the network infrastructure is there. Secure is available and is multi cloud capable. >>Yeah. At the end of the day, you guys just validating that. It's the networking game now. Cloud storage. Compute Check. Networking is where the action is. Awesome. Thanks for your insights. Appreciate you coming on the Cube. Appreciate it. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> live from Anaheim, California. It's the queue covering nutanix dot Next twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix Stott next here in Anaheim, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, John Farrier. We're joined by Jean Kim. He is an author, researcher, entrepreneur and founder of Revolution. Thank you so much for coming back on the Cube, Gene. >> Oh, thanks so much for Becca and always great seeing you and John. >> So you are a prolific author. You've written many books, including the Phoenix Project, The Deb Ops Handbook, given new one coming out. But this is this is the latest one we have here the Dev Ops Handbook >> twenty sixteen. And then we came up with a little bit cool accelerate based on the state of Davis report. And yeah, it's been a fun ride. Just what a great space to be writing about >> Dev ops has been. I'LL see that covered going back years. Now it's mainstream, and you started to see the impact of people who have taken the devil's mentality put promise and the place we see all the you know, Web scales from Facebook, you name. But now the enterprises is now really looking at agility scenario. You've been working a lot on you Host the Devil Devil Enterprise Summit. What's that been like? I mean, it seems to be well taken longer than some of the hard core cloud guys. So what's the State of the Union, if you will, for the enterprise from a devil standpoint? >> Yeah, What a great question. I mean, I think there's no doubt that the devil's principles and practices were pioneered in the tech giant's Facebook's Amazon necklace and Google's, but I've long believed with a certain level certainty that a CZ much economic values they've created, uh, that's just the tip of the iceberg. The real value will be created when you know the largest, most complex organization, the planet adopting same principles of patterns. And when you have Ah yeah, I think I. D. C said there's eighteen million developers on the planet of which, at maximum, no half million at the tech trying and the rest are in, you know, the largest brands across every industry vertical. And if we could get those seventeen and a half million developers as productive as if there were at Facebook Amazon, that for school I'm not, generates trillions of dollars of economic value per year. And when you know what, that much, um, economically being created. I mean, we'LL have undoubtedly, you know, incredible societal improving outcomes as well. So it has been such a treat to help chronicle that journey. >> One of the things I want to ask you. Genes that doesn't impressive numbers, but also UV factor and net new developers, younger generation, re skilled workers used to be a network. I now I'm a developer. You seeing developers really at the infrastructure level now. But show like this where Nutanix is a heart was a hardware company there now a software company. So they're ato heart of Jeb ops. In terms of their target audience, they're implementing this stuff, So this is a refreshing change. So I gotta ask you when you walk into an enterprise, what is the current temperature of our I Q of Dev ops are they are their percentage. That's you know, they're some are learning. Take us through kind of the progress. >> If I would guess right? This has much as I love statistics and you know, comprehensive benchmarking. Yeah, I think we're three percent of the way there. Alright, I percent Yeah, you know, we're in the earliest stages of it, Which means the best is yet to come. I think develops is an aspiration for many on DH. No, but having to change the I think Dave is often a rebellious group rebelling against agent powerful order right now, uh, forces far beyond their control. Conservative groups protecting their turf. I think that's kind of the, uh, probably a typical situation. And so, you know, we're a long way away from Devil's being the dominant orthodoxy. >> So if that's the case, just probably some people who have adopted it had success we're seeing in these new, innovative shifts. The early adopters have massive value extraction from that. So and that's an advantage. Committed advantage. Can you give us some examples of people who did that took the rebellion that went to Dev Ops were successful and then doubled down on it? >> Yeah, I think the one that come to mind immediately are like Capital one. Yeah, they went from eighty percent outsourcing to now. Almost hundred cent Insourced. Same with target, where they're really started off as a uh ah bottom up movement and then gain the support of the highest levels of leadership. And it has been so exciting to see the story's not just told by technology leaders, but increasingly shared and being told by both the technology leader and a business counterpart were the business leader is saying, I am wholly reliant upon my technology, Pierre, to achieve all the goals, dreams and aspirations of our organization. And that's what a treat, to be able to see that kind of recognition and appreciation. >> It's an operational shift to They have to buy into changing how they operate as a company. Yes, and believe me, they're like clutching on to the old ways. And that's just the way it is. A >> wonderful phrase from the NUTANIX CEO that Loved is that way often characterized that developers as the builders, but operation infrastructure, they are builders, too. In fact, you know, developers cannot be productive if they are mired in infrastructure, right? And so, uh, you know, uh, you know, you get a peek. Productivity focus flown joy when you don't have to deal with concerns outside of the business feature and the visibility. One solved. And I know that from personal experience where the frustration you have when you just want to do one thing and you just carved out a door ten things that you just can't do because you have two. Puzzle is a puzzle. They have solved >> it. Love to get your reaction, tio some of the trends that I'm seeing because Kev Ops has been such an important movement, at least from my standpoint, because people could get lost in the what the word means at the end of the day program ability, making infrastructures code, which is the original ethos. Making the officer programmable and invisible, which is one of the themes of nutanix was the dream. That kind of is the objective, right? I mean, to make it programmable. So you don't that stand up all these services and prep and provisions Hard infrastructure stuff? >> Yeah. Yeah. In November, the Unicorn project is coming out. So it's the follow into the Phoenix project, and I'm really trying to capture how great it feels when you could be productive and all of infrastructures taken care of for you by your friends and infrastructure. Right then allows youto you know, have your best energy focusing on solving a business problem, not on how to connect a to B. And we need to expect to see in the yamma files and configuring. You know, all these things that you don't really care about, but you're forced to write, and I think that allows ah, level of productivity and joy. But also, >> uh, >> of, uh, >> is that the idea working relationship between development and infrastructure, where developers are costly thanking their infrastructure, appears for making their life easy >> way. We're joking. Rebecca and I were joking about how we use Siri ate Siri. What's the weather in Palo Alto? This should be an app for the enterprises says Hey, Cube or whatever at NUTANIX or whatever. Give me some more storage. Why isn't it happening? But that's that's that's That's kind of a joke, but it's kind of goal. Oh, increasing the right >> that's just available on demand right on. You certainly don't have to open up thirty tickets these days. Like was so typical ten years ago that that's a modern miracle. >> My question for you is why books? I mean, so here here we have were in this very fast changing technological environment and landscape. And as you said, the Dev Ops is still relatively new. There's it's not. It's a three percent really who understand it. Why use a bunch of dead tree just to get your message across? I was like writing, in fact and an ideal >> month, and I get to spend half the time writing and half the time hanging out with the best in the game, studying now that the greatest in the field. And I think even in this day and age, there's still no Maur effective and viral mechanism spread ideas and books. You know, when people someone says, Hey, I love the finished project I'd loved reading it. It says a couple things right. They probably spent eight hours reading it on. You know, that's a serious commitment. And so I think, Imagine how many impression minutes, you know it takes a purchase. Eight minutes, eight hours of someone's time. And so for things like this, I really do think that you know, the written form is still won most effective ways. Tio communicate ideas. >> Your dream job. You're writing out the best people. What did you What have you learned from the these people. >> Oh, my goodness, >> you could write a book. Yeah, >> but for twenty years, I self identified as an operations person. Even that well, I was formally trained to develop Our got my graduate degree in compiler design in nineteen ninety five. And so for twenty years, I just loved operations. This because that's where the action was. That's what saves happened. But something changed. About four years ago. I learned at programming language called Closure. It's a functional programming languages, a list so very alien to me, the hardest thing I've ever learned. I mean, I must have read and watched eighty hours of video before I wrote one line of code, but it has been the most rewarding thing. And it's just that, uh, exactly brought the joy of development and encoding back into my daily life. So So I guess I should amend my answer. I would say it's half the time writing half the time hand with the best of game and twenty percent coding just because I love to solve problems, right? Yeah, my own problems. So So I have I would thank people I get I you know, I've been able to hang out with and had the privilege to watch because, um, if it weren't for that, I think I would been happy. No, just saying that coding was a thing of the past. Right? S o for that. I'm so grateful. >> How do you use what you learn about in terms of your writing and in your coding and vice a versa. I mean, So how are they different in how are they the same? >> Uh, that's a great question. You >> know, I think >> what's really nice about coding is that it's, uh that's very formal. I mean, in fact, the most extreme. It's all mathematics, right? The books are just a pile of words that may or may not have order and structure. And so, in the worst days, I felt like with the Unicorn Project, I wrote one hundred fifty thousand words. Target work count is one hundred thousand, and I was telling friends I wrote one hundred fifty thousand words that say nothing of significance, right? What have I done The best days and that's I think that's because you have to impose upon it a structure and a point right on the best days is very much like coding. Everything has a spot, right? Uh uh, And you know what to get rid of. So, uh, yeah, I think the fact that coding has structure, I think makes it in some ways an easier for me to work >> with. And what brings you to new tenants next this week? What's the story? Which >> I gotta say I had the privilege and was delighted to take part in what they called deaf days. So if they were gathering developers to learn about educate everyone on how to use, uh, the new Tanis capabilities through AP eyes just like he said, right to help enable automation, and, uh, I just find it very rewarding and fulfilling. I just because even though I think nutanix er as a community is known for being the, uh, the innovators and the, uh so the rebellion a cz productive as you know, that technology's made them to turn into an automated platform. And I think that's another order of magnitude gain in terms of value they could create for their organization. So that was a >> tree. And they've transformed from an operations oriented box company years ago and now officially subscription based software. They're going all software. They're flipping their model upside down, too. >> And it was just a delight to see the developers who are attracted to that one day thing I would recommend to anyone who's interested in development on just being on the cutting edge of what could be done with it. For example, if you have cameras in every store is their way to automate the analysis that you compute dwell times and, you know, Q abandonment rates. I mean, it's like a crash course in modern business practices that I thought was absolutely amazing. >> Well, Jean, you do great work. I've been following you for years. I know you're very humbles. Well, but give a plug. Take a minute to explain the things you're working on. You got a great event. You run, you gotta books. What other things you got going on? Shared the audience. >> Just those two things that were just Everything is about the book right now. The Unicorn project is coming in November. Uh, and so accepts Will be available at the Devil sent five summit in London s O. That's a conference for technology leaders from large, complex organizations and over the years, we've now chronicle of over two hundred case studies by technology leaders from almost every brand across every industry vertical. And it has been such a privilege toe. See, hear the stories and to see how they're being rewarded for their achievements. I mean there being promoted on being given more responsibility. So that is, Ah, treat beyond words >> and it's a revolution. It's a shift that's definitely happening. You're in the bin and doing it for years, and we're documenting it so and you are a CZ. Well, >> I'm looking forward to see you there. >> I just have one final question and this is about something you were saying about how Nutanix is the insurgent and the rebel the rebel in office. How does it How do you recommend it? As a researcher, as an entrepreneur yourself and as someone who's really in this mindset, how do you recommend it? Stay feisty and scrappy and with that mentality at it, especially as it grows and becomes more and more of a behemoth itself? >> Um, there was some statements made about, like how, ten years ago, virtual ization was the one key certification that was guaranteed. You relevant stuff forever in the future. And, yeah, I think there's some basis to say that, you know, that alone is not enough to guarantee lifetime employment. And I think the big lesson is you know, we all have to be continual learners and, you know, every year that goes by, you know, they're Mohr miracles being >> ah ah, >> being created for us to be able to use to solve problems. And if that doesn't think the lesson is if we're not, uh, always focused on being a continual Lerner, Yeah, there's great joy that comes with it and a great peril, You know, if we choose to forego it. >> Well, that's a great note to end. Thank you so much for coming back on the Cube. Gene. >> Thank you so much. And not great CD. Both. Thanks. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. We will have much more from dot next, just after this

>> Everyone. Welcome to a special cube conversation. We're here in Palo Alto, California Cube Studios. I'm John, four year host of the Q. We hear Atomic Wild, the CEO of Snapper out. Tom. Great to see you. You doing? I'm great. Thanks. You guys. You're launching Snapper. Snapper out. What is the company? What do you guys launching? Tell us. >> Well, quite simply stated were delivering a new class of network operating system for the cloud native era. Andrea Lee. What that does, is it. It delivers on the promise of time to service for applications. Always on security assurance and compliance. Andi greater operational efficiency, which is really one of the things that's been plaguing organizations tonight. >> How long is the company been around? This is the first public launch. A solution? Talk about the history real quick. >> So the company was founded in two thousand fifteen by some former operators from Apple. They built and ran Apple. Sort of biggest public facing data centers from the networking perspective on DH. You know, we've been working diligently on this. This is a new class of operating system that was really inspired by, you know, that their time building out those data centers on def. You, you kind of look back. NETWORKINGS not really had any major disruptive innovation in the last twenty five, thirty years. Ah, but back into the two thousand six, with the advent of a Ws and the and the new sort of big, hyper scaler tze, those guys started to realize that the network was something that was kind of getting in the way of their operational efficiency, of being able to automate and drive the network at scale on DSO. Our founders, you know, went through that whole sort of discovery process and things when when they were Apple on DH, you know, and the hyper scales drove the advent of this kind of white box disaggregated networking, separating the software operating system from the hardware and the reason behind that was really around game great gaining greater control because it's a legacy. Networking vendors were not delivering what was needed, and they needed to get more control on DSO. Are found us. You really saw the opportunity to say, Look, we think that there's a way of solving what an operator really needs and what an organization needs and one of the big challenges. There is howto networking operations. Teams collaborate with dev up stings because the devil teams are responsible for, you know, time to service for the application. And that's, you know, that's really the value of the organization. And so, you know, they set out to solve that problem to say, Well, hell, can we build a network operating system on what they realised was that you know what Deb Ops had done is embrace. It's a cloud. Native principles container ization, virtual ization, my crack services on DH. So what we've done is we've built from the ground up a newly architected network operating system that is a fully containerized micro services architecture that embeds coup Panetti's on DH allows the networking for this first time to be brought natively into the de bop store chain. Sonett ops teams can still sort of control and deploy the network and define policy and things. But now they don't have to worry about that is, you know, sort of annoying day today, tasks where, you know the Devil apps engineer is tryingto get an application on the network and, you know, they have to just do sort of some, you know, pretty trivial movies that changes things. And so, you know, in in doing that, what we also figured out was we could solve, you know, problems not just around the operational efficiencies and the time to service, but also a lot of security >> issues as well. So a lot of development going public with the product you mentioned. Cooper Netease, top of cloud. >> What are the >> big shifts in the industry that you guys air riding on because you have tail winds get cloud? Yeah, What is the way that you're on? Can you take a minute to explain some of the big shifts in the industry that's going, guys? >> Yeah, well, I I think there's several things. I think one of the biggest is that, you know, every single organization out there is looking nervously over its shoulder because we live in an age of very, very rapid disruption. It's kind of you know what call the Amazon affect. You know, those big, established companies who've been around for many, many years, who are being disrupted by, you know, Jason, you know, cos we're in adjacent spaces or new start ups coming in so everybody near realizes they need to use technology to their advantage, and they have to disrupt themselves Before, you know, they're they're disrupted. So? So that's one of the big drivers and And so time to service speed, efficiency are all sort of paramount. When you were in, you know, any C suite, you know, discussion, those air. Those are things that come up a ll the time from a technology perspective. We're seeing things, things changing significantly and how we use technology. And, you know, So everything is mobile. Ah, you know, we have the advent of I O t coming in, and so, you know, lots of services and moving to the edge. And so the data centers that were traditionally completely centralized and they'll sort of starting to distribute a little bit of well, eh? So you have this, you know, idea of sort of age data centers in H compute. So there's there's a lot of things, you know, changing and happening. And there's a lot of opportunity for us to deliver, you know, some strong value in this. >> So they obviously the cloud native trend you mentioned is big. That's driving the application market. De bobs you mentioned earlier huge we've seen years now in years of evidence of growth yet on dev ups. Okay, so now it's coming down into the network how? How our company's solving challenges for application developers that are in a devil's world because that seems to be the growth. And the sooner the pressure's coming from is that more requirements coming from the applications to the network. How are companies solving this problem? >> So, you know, So I think from the computer and storage side, things have moved along, you know, pretty, pretty, pretty swiftly eso, you know, as an application engineer. What? What you want is you want the infrastructure to service. You just You just want it to do what the application needs. Unfortunately, you know, traditionally, infrastructures has has been the other way around. You know, you deploy the infrastructure and you say, Okay, well, this is what the application could do within the constraints of the infrastructure and networking has, you know, just continued that idea. And so what you want to do is you want to take this idea of you we've talked before about infrastructure as code, you know. How do you make it? So is when an application engineer rights and application, he can actually regard the infrastructure as almost like a code library. And that's something that a lot of legacy vendors have talked about marketed to for some time. But the reality is-- >> It makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah, it does. It makes a ton of sense. But the reality is that all they could do was offer up some, you know, proprietary APIs and and programmatic interfaces. And the big challenge was the actual architecture of a network operating system was not designed in a way to actually enable that that infrastructure to react in the proper way by developing this containerized microservices architecture on by embedding communities and putting native DevOps tool chains you know inside the operating system. We actually can deliver on the promise of infrastructure as code. >> and this is what everyone wants. I gotta ask you, if everyone wants this and we hearing all around the Cuban all the events we go to clearly a requirement becoming table stakes. But what? What's been preventing people from doing this? >> Well, it's it's the architecture. I mean, if you look at, I call them Legacy Network architectures, but network architecture. Yeah, network operating system itself. The actual you know, the operating system that exists on the physical switch. That is where the problem starts, because that is designed as one big >> blob off >> coat. So all of the features Aaron there, they're all in the same place. They all sort of interact with each other, and it gives you reliability problems that give you innovation problems, because every time you change something, it has a knock on effect. If there's a bug and you have to fix that bug, you have to replace the entire blob. If you replace the entire blob, you have to down the switch or, you know, do some kind of complex patching. If there's a security vulnerability, you have to either differ like actually fixing their on DH, become non complaint or you have to down the switch. And you know we live in an age, As I said, where everything is on all the time, everything is mobile, you know, everybody wants their services right here right now. And the very you know, the very existence of a business depends on being able to deliver those applications all the time. So you can't bring network's down. So when when we've taken this micro services approach and we've containerized the actual infrastructure, you know, on the protocols and everything else, everything existed in its own container. Now, if there's a security vulnerability, we can replace just that container. If you're not using certain services on the operating system, you could kill those containers. And in the process, you reduce the threat surface off the the operating system in the switch. Where is in a legacy world with this monolithic blob, you can just you can turn off the features, but the code still there, the threat surfaces huge, and you're still vulnerable. So what's the >> solution to this and snap route? Fix this. What's the operational benefits? How do you guys play into fixing? The problems have been holding everyone back. >> Well, I think you know collaboration, I think is, you know, is one of the big benefits. You know, Quite frankly, I think there's, you know, there's there's been sort of tension in organizations. I think unfairly network operating operations teams have been, you know, treated as you know, holding things back or non responsive, whatever, anything that's completely unfair because actually, the problem is with the the vendor community. We haven't been delivering the tools that enable them to, you know, deliver the services they need. And so with you know, with our approach with this cloud native approach, we're actually able, sort of, you know, bring the net net tops world. You know, closer to Deb. Ops allow this Khun collaboration to happen on give you you know that the benefit ofthe I Abel sort of coordinated approach to delivering the application and the application is the value that the business delivers on. Biff, you know, if your application stops working, I mean, you know this in your personal life, right? You know, we use our phones and our devices. You try, use an application and it and it's not working. You're going to go and find a competitive. You're just going to go and say, Oh, well, you know, you saw download something else from the APP store on DH. So, you know, availability is a huge thing for businesses today on the network has been one of the most vulnerable pieces in terms of availability. Not because not necessarily because people are attacking it, but because it's so complex. And brittle that any time you change anything, things fall to pieces. And that's why people don't want to touch the network. And that is why we had the rise of the whole Sgn movement. The ESPN movement was on approach That said, we need to make the network more dynamic. And so, rather than addressing the actual operating system, put overlays over the top, create overlays and allow Deb ops teams to do what they need to do to deploy applications over the top of your fairly done plumbing. What we're saying is, look, we're going to simplify and claps. Thatyou don't need translation layers, and a PR is You don't need overlays. You don't need all of that stuff. We're now re architect in the operating system itself. So you, Khun Natively, address that and you know and directly, you know, control the policy that you need to deploy an application. >> Don, This is about modern infrastructure. It's what cloud is modernizing all parts of the value changing how people by consume, deploy, provide valued application known as you guys are part of that. How do people engage with snap route? So I say, Okay, this is the direction. I'm going. I'm going. I'm in cloud native and doing Cooper Netease. I got containing amusing microspheres betting my company's future on this direction. And a lot of people are. Yep. How doe I engage with you guys. And how do you fit into the equation? >> Right? So s so first of all, you know, initial engagement, you know, website linked in Facebook. You know, we're on all of those things. Weigh, You know, we're in customer trials right now. Invaders right now, you know, where was the launching the product? So you know where we'll be shipping off of your first commercial deployments. But as faras, you know how and where are the good? You know, the good opportunities to to deploy us on. Obviously, there are, you know, sort of new. Come, we're high growth companies who, you know, we're talking to who, you know, kind of wanna build off us as a base to start with. But if you already have ah, large investment in disorder deployed legacy equipment we can fit in quite nicely on. And we can still add a ton of value because one of the big problem areas, he's actually the top of rack, Switch the double racks, which is actually where Dev ops and Net ops come together. It's the first place where compute on the application touched the network on DH. This is where usually Annette, ops engineer, spends a lot of time doing, you know, fairly said of your trivial tasks to help applications, you get onto the network and you know, it's a big >> waste of conversion. You see, you think you're playing at the top Iraq switch, >> that is, that is a good place for for somebody to start to get a tremendous amount of value out of our product. You don't need to replace the entire network. You don't have to have us into end. You don't have to have us in the corps if you deploy us at the top of Rex, which so, you know, take a white box device. You know, deploy our operating system on top is very, very simple to do. The network engineer Khun very simply get that device up and running a little token. Figure itself. And then the Dev ops engineers can, you know, come in and say How would employ an application And I didn't need the network to do the following things, and the device will configure itself in that way. >> This is really two worlds coming together. Network operations and developer operations coming together. Yeah. How do you see that? Coming together and meshing together? Obviously, the top of Rex, which you mentioned? A key area where you get your kogel work. But as those cultural communities come together, you know, network operations and depth there, they're seeing benefits with each other. How are those worlds colliding? What's the benefit? What's it going to look like? And what's the opportunity? >> Yeah, well, I you know, I mean, first of all, I think that there's this misconception that these two over there, you know, these two types of organizations don't want to collaborate anything. That's a complete miss misconception. I mean, everybody wants to do the right thing they wanted, You know, their business is to grow ondas. I said earlier. I mean, I think the problem is that, you know, the vendor community is not delivered, as you know, a set of tools and products and capabilities that enable this collaboration. Andi, you know, that's what we're bringing to the table. But I do think you know that there's this This sort of, you know, this cross pollination, this this this ability to you don't have to learn each other's area of expertise. You don't suddenly have to become a networking expert. You know, the dead box engineer doesn't become a networking expert. Vice versa. But there is this, you know, there's there's this point of view, no collaboration and harmony that we can create where there was a lot of tension on DH, you know, and, you know, in fact, there was, you know, a lot of problems that way. Consider harmonize that and allow these organizations to just, you know, move forward with what really counts, which is growing the business. >> Tom, thanks for coming in. I appreciate your time. Original launch. Final question for you. Taking me displaying your background. Your previous roles in networking. We first met when you were at a PHP that he's being. Then why you attracted to snap Prada's as an opportunity on what's. >> Yeah, so, you know, I'm I've been in networking for over thirty years on and help me on DH. You know, network in security. Various roles, mostly in sort of product Rolls product management. You know, pride to snap her out. I was the general manager of the data center networking group HP on DH. You know, I got to do some, you know, fabulous things at HP. We have, you know, quite a ruber. And in other things there which have been hugely successful. So it was a lot of fun. But I came to the point with my career there, where I realized, you know, I I done, you know, many of the things that I wanted to do, and also, you know, most of the opportunities that were there in transforming and transitioning that company. And I wanted to get back to my start up roots on DH. You know, the, you know, long conversation. >> No data centers, these apple guys. >> Yeah, Andi, you know, And so I started talking Teo to snap Brown on, you know, they were asking my advice and things. And the one of the things that attracted me, as you say was it's a company built by operators for operators. You know, it's I, You know, I've never had the opportunity to be in a company founded by operators who just intrinsically know what the customer problem is on B because they've lived it. And And I think you really do have to live it to truly understand on DH. So, you know, that was a huge plus for me. I was really attracted, Teo, that Adam and Glenn, our founders, you know, really interesting great guys. But also there's this inflection point. There's this inflection point in the marking and market and everything to do with, you know, start ups and successful startups is not just having the right innovative technology, which I truly believe we do but having the right overthere innovative technology at the right time. And the timing here is perfect. I mean, child native, you know, Cuba netease, the movement behind Cuba. Netease is just a force unto itself. You know, Dev Ops is, you know, is really moving forward. There's a huge sort of groundswell within the networking team community to, you know, to modernize and to, you know, toe toe. Contribute more to the success of business s So we have a massive >> opportunity. And And the trend of programmable networks Infrastructure is code is happening now. He wanted rubber is hitting the road now? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know it's, you know, we'll go through the usual adoption curves of, you know, early adopters and mass market etcetera. And so, you know, there's a There's a journey ahead of us, but but yeah. No, I mean, you know, people are doing this right now. >> Well, congratulations on your launch net, right? We'll be watching you. Really innovative. Moving right to the core of the devices with an operating system. No abstraction. Layers with Cooper Netease. Interesting architecture. Looking forward to following it. Dominic Wild CEO Snapper out here inside the Cube studios and fellow Also, I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, D.C. It's theCUBE covering DotNext Conference. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to the district everybody, I'm Dave Allante with Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, and we Extract the Signal from the Noise. We're here, this is day two of the Nutanix.NEXTConf, #NEXTConf, Chris Hsu is here, sorry Calvin Hsu is here, VP of Product Marketing at Citrix. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much, nice to be here. >> So, you're up on stage earlier today right? A lot of good action here at the show. Talk about Citrix, and what you guys are doing here. >> Yeah, so I think Citrix, Nutanix, we've had a partnership going back for quite awhile. I think what really brought us together were customers that were actually trying to solve this issue, of how do I implement VDI, and how do I do this better right, there has to be a better way. And it's funny, we were just talking about chatting a little bit before about how many different infrastructure pieces and how many different components there are to learn in order to do VDI, and that was one of the things that always kind of stood as a barrier to adoption in some of the early days, going back, I don't know several years now, and they would say, well, you got to have, be an expert in networking, you got to be an expert in storage, you got to know all the server side infrastructure, the virtualization that goes with it, and then you got to also know the desktops, and the app parts of it, and how to manage all that. And in my experience it was all that technical knowledge, but it was also, it was also the people right? So, you also had to bring those people to the table, have one VDI project, go in and talk to a customer, and we're going to do a pilot for 200 people to start, and there'd be 20 people in the room. Because everybody had different areas of responsibility. And so as Nutanix is involved, and the whole idea of hyper-conversion, and HDI that's come around, that's really been some of the basis of where VDI is kind of getting that second booster of, in it's life cycle here, where they're realizing that it could just be a few people that are responsible for that HDI infrastructure, can deploy the VDI, and now they have a more simple reliable way of implementing that solution so (mumbles). >> I mean, that's kind of where, even when I go back to the converged infrastructure world that's, VDI was the one like foothold use case with Vblock's in the early days, and the HPE stuff, or HP then, and you know I have to say, I have to ask both of you guys, because you know this business really well, and you're obviously a VDI expert but, when you talk to customers, they get really excited about VDI, they're like, "Hey, this is a great use case, "we're going to, we're doing VDI, VDI, VDI, "it was a big project effort." When you talk to the analysts they're like, "Uhhh, VDI is so boring." What is it about VDI that there's this bifurcated opinion base right? Analysts uhhhh, okay, but customers eat it up. What's going on, what...? Unpack that for us. >> Well, I mean analysts don't necessarily feel the day-to-day pain of managing a desktop right? That's what it is right, so for them it's a-- >> Well said. >> It's the truth. Well, actually I know, I know some analysts that actually did that job, and so they're the ones that are still excited about it right? But in general, like once you get past the idea of that consulting a client on the complexities, and how do you choose a vendor and, and then it comes down to a few basic things, it's which one's going to deliver the best employee experience with the solution, which one's going to be the best operationally to manage and then sort of their job is done. But then, from a IT Admin perspective it's like they're still, every day they're managing new application update, the new desktop image, and it doesn't end right? And that's dozens and dozens of hours out of every week, every month, that you spend. >> Alright let's hear from the analyst. >> Dave, it was called VDI fatigue. Every year was the year of VDI you know. I think we've gotten beyond that, because I tell you, from my viewpoint, it was wait. It was this mess of a stack, and we're going to fix that. Oh wait, now storage is the mess, now flash is going to solve that, oh wait, mobile adoption is you know, the barrier, yet the opportunity, how do we modernize our applications, the changing workforce, mobile workforce. There were always the next, the next, the next, the next, the next thing and, it reminds me of our conversations with (mumbles) you know, it was like we're never finished, and a lot of it was, it was this big category of you know, you talk about the user experience, is I think, what Citrix is focused on, and how do we make that simpler and you know, so many analysts... The other thing from an analyst is, most analysts focus on a piece of it, and this is very different. I know some analysts focus on like, user experience, and let's look at the application, that's probably closer to where VDI is then, right, if you ask the storage guys they're like ah, VDI. If you ask the desktop people they're like wait, my place is fine so, it's that, it was a really complicated problem, but it's very different today, than it was, and I have to think with Nutanix it is, must've changed in the last five years. >> Absolutely, and well, I think the other thing is that's funny is if you take it back to like 2008 right? Analysts called the VDI game really early, so it's like you're saying every year was the VDI. Before anybody was deploying it in any sort of size, they were already saying it's a, X gazillion billion dollar market and that, and it, I think it's taken awhile for the customers... The customers are still just trying to dealing with some very basic desktop management issues today, and they're probably lagging behind the industry and analysts by three to five years I'd say, right? But what I hear now is, Windows 10 is coming around the horizon, how am I going to manage Windows 10 updates? I've got an Office 365 deployment project on my hands, how am I going to get this all out, how am I going to get the functionality that every one of my end users needs? And it comes around and it's like VDI is a great answer for that, it's a great way to solve that issue. >> Calvin, one of the things that we hear from new (mumbles) customers I mean, they love that kind of one-click simplicity, one-click update, and I hear about you know, Windows 10 is like the roll-out of the next thing, and where things break. How are Citrix and Nutanix working together to solve some of these challenges? >> Yeah, I think that approach of one-click, the automation you know, both the blue-printing types of technology is what we're pulling together. All that sort of automation is really important for, for this type of environment. You know I think the, we're both willing to pull together solutions that really then, drive that simplicity for, for both the infrastructure and the management, ongoing of that solution. It's like for example, we're working together on, work on the district's workspace appliance right? And that's, for us it's not a product name that's really a program, it's a way of defining HCI infrastructure like Nutanix and they're jumping on board with this. To be able to point that thing at the Citrix Cloud, and then download all the resources that it needs in order to run a Citrix workload on it. So it's a very automated way of getting stood up, so that not only is it deployment of the infrastructure, automated and simple, but placing that workload on it, and getting it set to manage, and then even running it and operating it is more like running and operating a Cloud service than it is even operating a local infrastructure for it. >> One of the things that David Floyer from Wikibon, has done a lot of analysis saying, if we can get to basically a single-managed entity is where he calls it, so I can have the entire thing comes out, not just the infrastructure, but all the way through the stack. Not only does that really help your deployment, but the overall kind of time-to-value, customer experience is just tremendously improved, tell us how you're helping to kind of reach that vision. >> Yeah, well I think it's time-to-value, but it's also making VDI accessible to more customers right, and more segments of the market. The types of things that VDI solves, security, manageability, those aren't just enterprise problems right? Even midsize companies, they have security concerns, and for them it's actually probably even more dramatic, like they have a breach there, and it's catastrophic for the company, not just, you know we're delayed by a few hours. And so you know, having that simplicity, and then making that whole thing easier to deploy, and faster, it's not just easier to deploy, but on day two, it's easier to manage ongoing. Those things are getting into tension again. >> So for years I remember in the Citrix, Synergy, a bunch of VMware, VM world's, talked to customers, and it was always a two-horse race between those two companies, and Citrix was like Secretariat, and VMware was like Devil His Due. You've probably never heard of Devil His Due. Pretty good horse but not Secretariat, and you guys, Citrix was the dominant player in that marketplace. What's the competitive situation today? It seems like VMware has made some acquisitions, has maybe caught up, maybe has some advantages, what, how do you see them as a competitor? >> I, so I think where Citrix is, I think that what really happens in the competitors space now is that it becomes less about VDI, versus VDI, and like what features are in each one. Although I could talk for hours, I think there's still a bunch of differentiation in there. You know earlier talking about user experience, I think the way we're looking at this market, and what's happening to it right now, is less about sort of user experience in the sense of a classic protocol versus protocol sense, in a technical sense, and more about, and I'll use the term more and more often about employee experience, alright, so it's not just what is the performance of my virtual desktop when I'm on x-y-z device, over a certain network. It is what happens that first time I give an employee a resource, or a virtual desktop, or a mobile application, or access to a SAS application, or an internally-hosted Web application through a virtual browser, and they go in and they, they want to get work done right? So the experience of that employee is now, not just one of these technologies, it is what we refer to as workspace technology. It's everything I need from the applications, to the files that I want to use, to the workflows that I want to kick off, and I think that will be their new area of differentiation, and again, that's where we want to move very far for. >> Calvin, what should we be expecting to see from Citrix and Nutanix going for a long partnership, and how does it improve even more for customers? >> I think you know, the stuff that Nutanix has announced here, with the whole Hybrid Cloud strategy, I think that very much is in alignment with our philosophy on Hybrid Cloud approaches for customers. So I would expect to see a lot more in that collaboration area. There's lots more that we can do on the NetScaler side of the business for networking, and enabling the reliability of a lot of these network connections as people become, you know I love that concept of the core, the distributing the Edge Cloud right, and all of that's going to need interconnectivity, and security and reliability. And you know, more of the same on making VDI simpler for, for all customers of all sizes. I think we're just at the cusp of you know we've got this automation plan going in, we're creating the workspace appliance in its simplicity there. I think there's a lot more we can do, again, from day two perspective operationally, as I keep going and I'm growing this thing, and I'm managing my images, and I'm managing applications, and growing the infrastructure, increasing performance, taking on different types of workloads, there's lots more we can do in that area. >> What is the all Citrix Stack Workplace Appliance? >> Right, so that is really the Nutanix has announced support for XenServer, and for us, you know XenServer, we've really done a transformation of that technology over the last couple years, where we've taken what was a general platform virtualization solution, and we've really specifically targeted at our workloads. At XenApp, XenDesktop, NetScaler, and making it the best virtualization platform for our, for our solutions. Why do we do that? We do that because there's going to be certain things that we need out of that layer from an innovation standpoint whether it's supporting graphics, which we were the first to do, across all the major ship vendors, virtual GPUs, coming up with new security paradigms like being able to do deep Hypervisor Introspection, and identify day one malware attacks before they, even infect any of the machines. You know, those sorts of innovations become really important that we can drive, and having control over XenServer we're able to do that. So through the partnership with Nutanix, and getting their support on that as well, then all the joint Nutanix and Citrix customers could take advantage of that innovation. So now they also have the obviously at their disposal, everything that Nutanix is putting into HV, everything we're putting into XenServer, and being able to manage it that way. So, in the workspace appliance, sort of reference guide for building this, one of the things we focus on is the XenServer component of it, and being able to have that innovation coming from Citrix as part of that solution. >> Great. Calvin, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE, appreciate your time, and your insights. >> Thank you, yeah it's good to be here. >> Good to see you. Alright, keep it right there buddy, Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live from DotNext, #NEXTConf, this is theCUBE. (techno music)