>> live from Anaheim, California. It's the queue covering nutanix dot Next twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix Stott next here in Anaheim, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Night, along with my co host, John Farrier. We're joined by Jean Kim. He is an author, researcher, entrepreneur and founder of Revolution. Thank you so much for coming back on the Cube, Gene. >> Oh, thanks so much for Becca and always great seeing you and John. >> So you are a prolific author. You've written many books, including the Phoenix Project, The Deb Ops Handbook, given new one coming out. But this is this is the latest one we have here the Dev Ops Handbook >> twenty sixteen. And then we came up with a little bit cool accelerate based on the state of Davis report. And yeah, it's been a fun ride. Just what a great space to be writing about >> Dev ops has been. I'LL see that covered going back years. Now it's mainstream, and you started to see the impact of people who have taken the devil's mentality put promise and the place we see all the you know, Web scales from Facebook, you name. But now the enterprises is now really looking at agility scenario. You've been working a lot on you Host the Devil Devil Enterprise Summit. What's that been like? I mean, it seems to be well taken longer than some of the hard core cloud guys. So what's the State of the Union, if you will, for the enterprise from a devil standpoint? >> Yeah, What a great question. I mean, I think there's no doubt that the devil's principles and practices were pioneered in the tech giant's Facebook's Amazon necklace and Google's, but I've long believed with a certain level certainty that a CZ much economic values they've created, uh, that's just the tip of the iceberg. The real value will be created when you know the largest, most complex organization, the planet adopting same principles of patterns. And when you have Ah yeah, I think I. D. C said there's eighteen million developers on the planet of which, at maximum, no half million at the tech trying and the rest are in, you know, the largest brands across every industry vertical. And if we could get those seventeen and a half million developers as productive as if there were at Facebook Amazon, that for school I'm not, generates trillions of dollars of economic value per year. And when you know what, that much, um, economically being created. I mean, we'LL have undoubtedly, you know, incredible societal improving outcomes as well. So it has been such a treat to help chronicle that journey. >> One of the things I want to ask you. Genes that doesn't impressive numbers, but also UV factor and net new developers, younger generation, re skilled workers used to be a network. I now I'm a developer. You seeing developers really at the infrastructure level now. But show like this where Nutanix is a heart was a hardware company there now a software company. So they're ato heart of Jeb ops. In terms of their target audience, they're implementing this stuff, So this is a refreshing change. So I gotta ask you when you walk into an enterprise, what is the current temperature of our I Q of Dev ops are they are their percentage. That's you know, they're some are learning. Take us through kind of the progress. >> If I would guess right? This has much as I love statistics and you know, comprehensive benchmarking. Yeah, I think we're three percent of the way there. Alright, I percent Yeah, you know, we're in the earliest stages of it, Which means the best is yet to come. I think develops is an aspiration for many on DH. No, but having to change the I think Dave is often a rebellious group rebelling against agent powerful order right now, uh, forces far beyond their control. Conservative groups protecting their turf. I think that's kind of the, uh, probably a typical situation. And so, you know, we're a long way away from Devil's being the dominant orthodoxy. >> So if that's the case, just probably some people who have adopted it had success we're seeing in these new, innovative shifts. The early adopters have massive value extraction from that. So and that's an advantage. Committed advantage. Can you give us some examples of people who did that took the rebellion that went to Dev Ops were successful and then doubled down on it? >> Yeah, I think the one that come to mind immediately are like Capital one. Yeah, they went from eighty percent outsourcing to now. Almost hundred cent Insourced. Same with target, where they're really started off as a uh ah bottom up movement and then gain the support of the highest levels of leadership. And it has been so exciting to see the story's not just told by technology leaders, but increasingly shared and being told by both the technology leader and a business counterpart were the business leader is saying, I am wholly reliant upon my technology, Pierre, to achieve all the goals, dreams and aspirations of our organization. And that's what a treat, to be able to see that kind of recognition and appreciation. >> It's an operational shift to They have to buy into changing how they operate as a company. Yes, and believe me, they're like clutching on to the old ways. And that's just the way it is. A >> wonderful phrase from the NUTANIX CEO that Loved is that way often characterized that developers as the builders, but operation infrastructure, they are builders, too. In fact, you know, developers cannot be productive if they are mired in infrastructure, right? And so, uh, you know, uh, you know, you get a peek. Productivity focus flown joy when you don't have to deal with concerns outside of the business feature and the visibility. One solved. And I know that from personal experience where the frustration you have when you just want to do one thing and you just carved out a door ten things that you just can't do because you have two. Puzzle is a puzzle. They have solved >> it. Love to get your reaction, tio some of the trends that I'm seeing because Kev Ops has been such an important movement, at least from my standpoint, because people could get lost in the what the word means at the end of the day program ability, making infrastructures code, which is the original ethos. Making the officer programmable and invisible, which is one of the themes of nutanix was the dream. That kind of is the objective, right? I mean, to make it programmable. So you don't that stand up all these services and prep and provisions Hard infrastructure stuff? >> Yeah. Yeah. In November, the Unicorn project is coming out. So it's the follow into the Phoenix project, and I'm really trying to capture how great it feels when you could be productive and all of infrastructures taken care of for you by your friends and infrastructure. Right then allows youto you know, have your best energy focusing on solving a business problem, not on how to connect a to B. And we need to expect to see in the yamma files and configuring. You know, all these things that you don't really care about, but you're forced to write, and I think that allows ah, level of productivity and joy. But also, >> uh, >> of, uh, >> is that the idea working relationship between development and infrastructure, where developers are costly thanking their infrastructure, appears for making their life easy >> way. We're joking. Rebecca and I were joking about how we use Siri ate Siri. What's the weather in Palo Alto? This should be an app for the enterprises says Hey, Cube or whatever at NUTANIX or whatever. Give me some more storage. Why isn't it happening? But that's that's that's That's kind of a joke, but it's kind of goal. Oh, increasing the right >> that's just available on demand right on. You certainly don't have to open up thirty tickets these days. Like was so typical ten years ago that that's a modern miracle. >> My question for you is why books? I mean, so here here we have were in this very fast changing technological environment and landscape. And as you said, the Dev Ops is still relatively new. There's it's not. It's a three percent really who understand it. Why use a bunch of dead tree just to get your message across? I was like writing, in fact and an ideal >> month, and I get to spend half the time writing and half the time hanging out with the best in the game, studying now that the greatest in the field. And I think even in this day and age, there's still no Maur effective and viral mechanism spread ideas and books. You know, when people someone says, Hey, I love the finished project I'd loved reading it. It says a couple things right. They probably spent eight hours reading it on. You know, that's a serious commitment. And so I think, Imagine how many impression minutes, you know it takes a purchase. Eight minutes, eight hours of someone's time. And so for things like this, I really do think that you know, the written form is still won most effective ways. Tio communicate ideas. >> Your dream job. You're writing out the best people. What did you What have you learned from the these people. >> Oh, my goodness, >> you could write a book. Yeah, >> but for twenty years, I self identified as an operations person. Even that well, I was formally trained to develop Our got my graduate degree in compiler design in nineteen ninety five. And so for twenty years, I just loved operations. This because that's where the action was. That's what saves happened. But something changed. About four years ago. I learned at programming language called Closure. It's a functional programming languages, a list so very alien to me, the hardest thing I've ever learned. I mean, I must have read and watched eighty hours of video before I wrote one line of code, but it has been the most rewarding thing. And it's just that, uh, exactly brought the joy of development and encoding back into my daily life. So So I guess I should amend my answer. I would say it's half the time writing half the time hand with the best of game and twenty percent coding just because I love to solve problems, right? Yeah, my own problems. So So I have I would thank people I get I you know, I've been able to hang out with and had the privilege to watch because, um, if it weren't for that, I think I would been happy. No, just saying that coding was a thing of the past. Right? S o for that. I'm so grateful. >> How do you use what you learn about in terms of your writing and in your coding and vice a versa. I mean, So how are they different in how are they the same? >> Uh, that's a great question. You >> know, I think >> what's really nice about coding is that it's, uh that's very formal. I mean, in fact, the most extreme. It's all mathematics, right? The books are just a pile of words that may or may not have order and structure. And so, in the worst days, I felt like with the Unicorn Project, I wrote one hundred fifty thousand words. Target work count is one hundred thousand, and I was telling friends I wrote one hundred fifty thousand words that say nothing of significance, right? What have I done The best days and that's I think that's because you have to impose upon it a structure and a point right on the best days is very much like coding. Everything has a spot, right? Uh uh, And you know what to get rid of. So, uh, yeah, I think the fact that coding has structure, I think makes it in some ways an easier for me to work >> with. And what brings you to new tenants next this week? What's the story? Which >> I gotta say I had the privilege and was delighted to take part in what they called deaf days. So if they were gathering developers to learn about educate everyone on how to use, uh, the new Tanis capabilities through AP eyes just like he said, right to help enable automation, and, uh, I just find it very rewarding and fulfilling. I just because even though I think nutanix er as a community is known for being the, uh, the innovators and the, uh so the rebellion a cz productive as you know, that technology's made them to turn into an automated platform. And I think that's another order of magnitude gain in terms of value they could create for their organization. So that was a >> tree. And they've transformed from an operations oriented box company years ago and now officially subscription based software. They're going all software. They're flipping their model upside down, too. >> And it was just a delight to see the developers who are attracted to that one day thing I would recommend to anyone who's interested in development on just being on the cutting edge of what could be done with it. For example, if you have cameras in every store is their way to automate the analysis that you compute dwell times and, you know, Q abandonment rates. I mean, it's like a crash course in modern business practices that I thought was absolutely amazing. >> Well, Jean, you do great work. I've been following you for years. I know you're very humbles. Well, but give a plug. Take a minute to explain the things you're working on. You got a great event. You run, you gotta books. What other things you got going on? Shared the audience. >> Just those two things that were just Everything is about the book right now. The Unicorn project is coming in November. Uh, and so accepts Will be available at the Devil sent five summit in London s O. That's a conference for technology leaders from large, complex organizations and over the years, we've now chronicle of over two hundred case studies by technology leaders from almost every brand across every industry vertical. And it has been such a privilege toe. See, hear the stories and to see how they're being rewarded for their achievements. I mean there being promoted on being given more responsibility. So that is, Ah, treat beyond words >> and it's a revolution. It's a shift that's definitely happening. You're in the bin and doing it for years, and we're documenting it so and you are a CZ. Well, >> I'm looking forward to see you there. >> I just have one final question and this is about something you were saying about how Nutanix is the insurgent and the rebel the rebel in office. How does it How do you recommend it? As a researcher, as an entrepreneur yourself and as someone who's really in this mindset, how do you recommend it? Stay feisty and scrappy and with that mentality at it, especially as it grows and becomes more and more of a behemoth itself? >> Um, there was some statements made about, like how, ten years ago, virtual ization was the one key certification that was guaranteed. You relevant stuff forever in the future. And, yeah, I think there's some basis to say that, you know, that alone is not enough to guarantee lifetime employment. And I think the big lesson is you know, we all have to be continual learners and, you know, every year that goes by, you know, they're Mohr miracles being >> ah ah, >> being created for us to be able to use to solve problems. And if that doesn't think the lesson is if we're not, uh, always focused on being a continual Lerner, Yeah, there's great joy that comes with it and a great peril, You know, if we choose to forego it. >> Well, that's a great note to end. Thank you so much for coming back on the Cube. Gene. >> Thank you so much. And not great CD. Both. Thanks. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. We will have much more from dot next, just after this

>> Live from Anaheim, California It's the queue covering nutanix dot next twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Nutanix >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of Nutanix Next here in Anaheim, California I'm your host, Rebecca Night, >> along with my co host, John Furrier, and we're kicking off a two days show here in Anaheim. I'm so happy to be working with you, John. >> Awesome to see you. Great event, Nutanix Hot, innovative company under a lot of pressure from the M Where, But this marketplace is changing great transition opportunity for these guys. So it's gonna be fun. >> Exactly. And I wouldn't want to get into what we heard on the main stage. We had Dhiraj Pandey up there talking about nutanix. It is a very poignant moment for him because NUTANIX is turning ten this year. That is a milestone in and of itself. This company has really changed so much. It's always been about simplifying data management, but it's no longer a one product company. I wonder if you could just reflect a little bit on the changes you've seen. >> It's been a fun ride of known Dhiraj for ten years. When we first interviewed him when they were misunderstood. Later, no one really got what this h c I was going on. Student Min was early to see it and keep on, but it was for a few years. I was like, Yo, he's crazy entrepreneur But he ended up having the right formula. Very innovative company. They've great product leadership, great engineering, but ten years old, they went public. So they're out in the open. Dellal Technologies went private, reset everything, then went public, kind of forced to go public, and I was doing great. So you have interesting dynamic, the company's ten years old. They went public and how to make all these moves out in the open. So the interesting thing at ten years old for them is that they got a great business and the markets in transition. Hyper convergence, HC Eyes is called, is a solid foundation, but it's changing very radically with cloud technologies and multi cloud. And the enterprise is morphing into right into their wheelhouse, where this simplicity needed theirs, integration needed. All these new opportunities are emerging and they're still small, so they could be nimble. This is the challenge that they have. They have to get out in front this next wave. If they don't, there's going to be competitive pressure. And I think that's the big story that I'm seeing here is they're ten years old. They're not resting on their laurels, that CEOs aggressive. He's taken on VM wear a little bit, and so he's competitive. So we'LL see what happened. >> Well, I think and you said Dheeraj is is a friend of the Cube, So I let's talk about his leadership style. So here, here, here, here's this company that was a tech startup. It now has a market cap in the multiple billions of dollars recently gone public. How would you describe his leadership style and also how it's changed? What, what, since it was sort of a little tech startup? >> Well, D Roger's always been innovator. He's been a visionary again. He sees typical founder. He's got the twenty mile stare, as I call it, you can see around the corner, but that's not going to get him through this competitive battle. He's gotta balance the visionary competitiveness and and strategy with technical execution they need to execute right now because they are under a lot of pressure, competitive pressure they need to increase their sales inside the enterprise to get new logos and new customers. So I think what I'm seeing from his leadership style is it's a call to arms within the company saying We got to go take territory down. We gotta compete not necessarily on a on a head on with se viene where and others but they got They got to continue to be innovating, be competitive. That's Ray technical, and that's something that came out of the analyst meeting yesterday. I noticed was he's very tactical, usually is painting the picture, but he's got a great vision, and I think that's going to be the challenge. >> I want to talk about partners who are sort of the key partners that you think will help this company grow because it it does take a village >> well, the interesting strategy than Nutanix is looking at, in my opinion, this skin my opinion, but they have a partnering strategy. Del Technologies and GM was all part of a portfolio of end to end strategy. So really, the big competitors against for Nutanix is going to be Del del Technologies and their family. Cos Nutanix is going after more of a partner in a strategy they announced keep partnership with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. HP was also competitors in the space, so they got it to create this ecosystem strategy, and it's going to be about partners. And new tennis can integrate with other players. They could be a supplier of technology for the broader market. This is something that's interesting. Everyone's trying to be a broker or they used terms, you know, Gateway to the multi cloud or cloud bro Carmel. These terms been kicked around. But Nutanix truly has an opportunity to take their product leadership and be a partner and tie things together more elegantly than, say, one company into him. >> Let's talk also about nutanix, the business as you. As you have said multiple times, This is Ah is hugely competitive industry. This company is under a lot of pressure. Technically, they've got to be tough, but yet they've also there till they're still small. They can be nimble and innovative. What what What is sort of on Dheeraj is to do list from you speaking as an analyst. >> Well, I think the number one thing I think he's got a really kind of shore up the sales and marketing effort of it because they have. When they compete in the marketplace, they need more competitive wins. These stock has taken a little bit hit lately on some basic fundamentals. Again, I still think they're misunderstood in the market that there's a big upside for Nutanix. But they gotta win Mork competitive deals where they compete with the proof of concept, also known as a POC. They win most of the time, they're gonna take their product leadership and they've gotta win in the field. This is a critical thing and lower their cost of acquisition for customers. That's Aki kind of financial analysis. The other thing that they got to do is continue to get the product leadership and get position for that next wave. That's going to be enterprised and multi cloud, and that's not yet clear. And the numbers don't look that strong. In my opinion, on the growth, it's no one's really got visibility into what those numbers going to look like in their core business. They're H C I business. They're solid, so they gotta build on that, extend out that base, and that's really the core strategy. >> How would you describe the customer mindset because, as you said, this is a company that's misunderstood. They get it and they're sort of waiting for the Cust stirs to catch up or waiting for the market really to catch up. >> The customer angle is interesting because, you know, a lot of people that, like Nutanix, are coming from VM. Where would they pay licenses? And VM where had some misfires in the couple of years ago On product, they kind of got caught back up on shore that up. But that opened up a door for Nutanix. You know, VM. Where's six point? Oh has been talked about as a one of those gaps where opened up the door to Nutanix. So the M, where customers are kind of looking at nutanix. I think the HB relationships interesting because I think that's going to be a whole new set of customer base. But the customer mindset right now is interesting. They want to not consolidate. They want to actually reduce the pain points around dealing with all this legacy hardware legacy software, and I think nutanix his position to come in and say we, Khun, provide integrated solution, Reduce your footprint give you more capabilities and free up the time it takes to manage it. And I think that's one of the consistent thing themes. The other notable thing I noticed another customer base is it's a lot younger and smarter technical people where they don't have that dogma this the way we used to do it. And I think that's going to be an interesting Dev ops opportunity where the younger generation on it would be like, Why we doing this versus this? I think that's going to be very interesting to see if that network effect for NUTANIX will work. >> Well, I'm interested to hear you talk about this younger generation in relation to the customers because Nutanix is also ah, younger Jenna. You know, it's ten years old. It's sort of on the verge of adolescents. Andi and we were just at a deli M C World. That company's turning thirty five next week. Obviously, Microsoft and Apple are well into their forties. Uh, how how would you talk about this company in terms of the of it as part of the new generation of tech companies, Tech powerhouses, Really Well, I >> mean, I think it's a contrast between two styles. Michael Dell is awesome, and what he's putting out there is an end to end strategy for Del. They want to automate. They wanted only infrastructure layer. They want to be the preferred supplier for it. Nutanix a little bit different. They're younger, they're faster, their nimble on. They're taking more integrated approach on a partnership ships centric approach. So I think the style is one of a cheetah who's running fast. That's nutanix. And then the big elephant, which is Del and that just pounding through the through the territory that Del Technologies and GM would have more muscle. So they're goingto they're gonna have some good wins. Their new Tanis has got to stay fast and nimble and kind of just, you know, Bob and weave off of what Dell's doing. So I think that's the opportunity for them is to go to the next level. And I think Dheeraj is sees that the question I see is that because they're a public company, they gotta balance it all out in the open, and they're very transparent companies, so I don't think it will be two hundred challenge, but this is what they have to do they got? Really? Take that revenue up in the cloud and enterprise beyond Hcea >> and Wall Street is watching >> you while she's watching. >> So we have a great show. We have. We're gonna be talking products. We're going to be talking women in tech word social impacts. It's research for our viewers at home. What do you think that they should be looking for in terms of terms of nutanix and in its journey? I think >> that what I would look for and what I'm going to be poking out on the interviews is what's next? Because I think this is a critical bet for the Russian. The team was. Are they on the right wave? Is this what the customers want? What kind of product leadership they have, And then what's the culture fit for what the customers want? And the customers are looking for simplicity. They do what they want to reduce the cost of ownership, and they want to supply. That's going to be around. So I think the key thing is, you know, look for where it goes next. That's where I think the number one thing to look for. >> Well, John, I'm looking forward to two days of coverage with you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier, we will have much more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix next here in Anaheim, California stay with us.