>> Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in San Francisco for IBM Think 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman with theCUBE. Stu, it's been a great day. We're on our fourth day of four days of wall to wall coverage. A theme of AI, large scale compute with Cloud and data that's great. Great topics. Got two great guests here. Rohit Badlaney, who's the director of IBM Z As a Service, IBM Systems. Real great to see you. And Nataraj Nagaratnam, Distinguished Engineer and CTO and Director of Cloud Security at IBM and Hybrid Cloud, thanks for joining us. >> Glad to be here. >> So, the subtext to all the big messaging around AI and multi-cloud is that you need power to run this. Horsepower, you need big iron, you need the servers, you need the storage, but software is in the heart of all this. So you guys had some big announcements around capabilities. The Hyper Protect was a big one on the securities side but now you've got Z As a Service. We've seen Linux come on Z. So it's just another network now. It's just network computing is now tied in with cloud. Explain the offering. What's the big news? >> Sure, so two major announcements for us this week. One's around our private cloud capabilities on the platform. So we announced our IBM Cloud Private set of products fully supported on our LinuxOne systems, and what we've also announced is the extensions of those around hyper-secure workloads through a capability called the Secure Services Container, as well as giving our traditional z/OS clients cloud consumption through a capability called the z/OS Cloud Broker. So it's really looking at how do we cloudify the platform for our existing base, as well as clients looking to do digital transformation projects on-premise. How do we help them? >> This has been a key part of this. I want to just drill down this cloudification because we've been talking about how you guys are positioned for growth. All the REORG's are done. >> Sure, yeah >> The table's all set. Products have been modernized, upgraded. Now the path is pretty clear. Kind of like what Microsoft's playbook was. Build the core cloudification. Get your core set of products cloudified. Target your base of customers. Grow that and expand into the modern era. This is a key part of the strategy, right? >> Absolutely right. A key part of our private cloud strategy is targeted to our existing base and moving them forward on their cloud journey, whether they're looking to modernize parts of their application. Can we start first with where they are on-premise is really what we're after. >> Alright, also you have the Hyper Protect. >> Correct. >> What is that announcement? Can you explain Hyper Protect? >> Absolutely. Like Rohit talked about, taking our LinuxOne capabilities, now that enterprise trusts the level of assurance, the level of security that they're dependent on, on-premise and now in private cloud. We are taking that further into the public cloud offering as Hyper Protect services. So these are set of services that leverage the underlyings of security hardening that nobody else has the level of control that you can get and offering that as a service so you don't need to know Z or LinuxOne from a consumption perspective. So I'll take two examples. Hyper Protect Crypto Service is about exposing the level of control. That you can manage they keys. What we call "keep your own keys" because encryption is out there but it's all about key management so we provide that with the highest level of security that LinuxOne servers from us offer. Another example is database as a service, which runs in this Hyper Secure environment. Not only encryption and keys, but leveraging down the line pervasive encryption capabilities so nobody can even get into the box, so to say. >> Okay, so I get the encryption piece. That's solid, great. Internet encryption is always good. Containers, there's been discussions at the CNCF about containers not being part of the security boundaries and putting a VMware around it. Different schools of thought there. How do you guys look at the containerization? Does that fit into Secure Protect? Talk about that dynamic because encryption I get, but are you getting containers? >> Great question because it's about the workload, right? When people are modernizing their apps or building cloud-native apps, it's built on Kubernetes and containers. What we have done, the fantastic work across both the IBM Cloud Private on Z, as well as Hyper Protect, underlying it's all about containers, right? So as we deliver these services and for customers also to build data services as containers or VM's, they can deploy on this environment or consume these as a compute. So fundamentally it's kubernetes everywhere. That's a foundational focus for us. When it can go public, private and multicloud, and we are taking that journey into the most austere environment with a performance and scale of Z and LinuxONE. >> Alright, so Rohit, help bring us up to date. We've been talking about this hybrid and multi-cloud stuff for a number of years, and the idea we've heard for many years is, "I want to have the same stack on both ends. I want encryption all the way down to the chip set." I've heard of companies like Oracle, like IBM say, "We have resources in both. We want to do this." We understand kubernetes is not a magic layer, it takes care of a certain piece you know and we've been digging in that quite a bit. Super important, but there's more than that and there still are differences between what I'm doing in the private cloud and public cloud just naturally. Public cloud, I'm really limited to how many data centers, private cloud, everything's different. Help us understand what's the same, what's different. How do we sort that out in 2019? >> Sure, from a brand perspective we're looking at private cloud in our IBM Cloud Private set of products and standardizing on that from a kubernetes perspective, but also in a public cloud, we're standardizing on kubernetes. The key secret source is our Secure Services Container under there. It's the same technology that we use under our Blockchain Platform. Right, it brings the Z differentiation for hyper-security, lockdown, where you can run the most secure workloads, and we're standardizing that on both public and private cloud. Now, of course, there are key differences, right? We're standardizing on a different set of workloads on-premise. We're focusing on containerizing on-premise. That journey to move for the public cloud, we still need to get there. >> And the container piece is super important. Can you explain the piece around, if I've got multi-cloud going on, Z becomes a critical node on the network because if you have an on-premise base, Z's been very popular, LinuxONE has been really popular, but it's been for the big banks, and it seems like the big, you know, it's big ire, it's IBM, right? But it's not just the mainframe. It's not proprietary software anymore, it's essentially large-scale capability. >> Right. >> So now, when that gets factored into the pool of resources and cloud, how should customers look at Z? How should they look at the equation? Because this seems to me like an interesting vector into adding more head room for you guys, at least on the product side, but for a customer, it's not just a use case for the big banks, or doing big backups, it seems to have more legs now. Can you explain where this fits into the big picture? Because why wouldn't someone want to have a high performant? >> Why don't I use a customer example? I had a great session this morning with Brad Chun from Shuttle Fund, who joined us on stage. They know financial industry. They are building a Fintech capability called Digital Asset Custody Services. It's about how you digitize your asset, how do you tokenize them, how you secure it. So when they look at it from that perspective, they've been partnering with us, it's a classic hybrid workload where they've deployed some of the apps on the private cloud and on-premise with Z/LinuxONE and reaching out to the cloud using the Hyper Protect services. So when they bring this together, built on Blockchain under the covers, they're bringing the capability being agile to the market, the ability for them to innovate and deliver with speed, but with the level of capability. So from that perspective, it's a Fintech, but they are not the largest banks that you may know of, but that's the kind of innovation it enables, even if you don't have quote, unquote a mainframe or a Z. >> This gives you guys more power, and literally, sense of pretty more reach in the market because what containers and now these kubernetes, for example, Ginni Rometty said "kubernetes" twice in her keynote. I'm like, "Oh my God. The CEO of IBM said 'kubernetes' twice." We used to joke about it. Only geeks know about kubernetes. Here she is talking about kubernetes. Containers, kubernetes, and now service missions around the corner give you guys reach into the public cloud to extend the Z capability without foreclosing the benefits of Z. So that seems to be a trend. Who's the target for that? Give me an example of who's the customer or use case? What's the situation that would allow me to take advantage of cloud and extend the capability to Z? >> If you just step back, what we're really trying to do is create a higher shorten zone in our cloud called Hyper Protect. It's targeted to our existing Z base, who want to move on this enterprise out journey, but it's also targeted to clients like Shuttle Fund and DAX that Raj talked about that are building these hyper secure apps in the cloud and want the capabilities of the platform, but wanted more cloud-native style. It's the breadth of moving our existing base to the cloud, but also these new security developers who want to do enterprise development in the cloud. >> Security is key. That's the big drive. >> And that's the beauty of Z. That's what it brings to the table. And to a cloud is the hyper lockdown, the scale, the performance, all those characteristics. >> We know that security is always an on-going journey, but one of the ones that has a lot of people concerned is when we start adding IoT into the mix. It increased the surface area by orders of magnitude. How do those type of applications fit into these offerings? >> Great question. As a matter of fact, I didn't give you the question by the way, but this morning, KONE joined me on stage. >> We actually talked about it on Twitter. (laughs) >> KONE joined us on stage. It's about in the residential workflow, how they're enabling here their integration, access, and identity into that. As an example, they're building on our IoT platform and then they integrate with security services. That's the beauty of this. Rohit talked about developers, right? So when developers build it, our mission is to make it simple for a developer to build secure applications. With security skill shortage, you can't expect every developer to be a security geek, right? So we're making it simple, so that you can kind of connect your IoT to your business process and your back-end application seamlessly in a multi-cloud and hybrid-cloud fashion. That's where both from a cloud native perspective comes in, and building some of these sensitive applications on Hyper Protect or Z/LinuxONE and private cloud enables that end to end. >> I want to get you guys take while you're here because one of the things I've observed here at Think, which is clearly the theme is Cloud AI and developers all kind of coming together. I mean, AI, Amazon's event, AI, AI, AI, in cloud scale, you guys don't have that. But developer angle is really interesting. And you guys have a product called IBM Cloud Private, which seems to be a very big centerpiece of the strategy. What is this product? Why is it important? It seems to be part of all the key innovative parts that we see evolving out of the thing. Can you explain what is the IBM Cloud Private and how does it fit into the puzzle? >> Let me take a pass at it Raj. In a way it is, well, we really see IBM Cloud Private as that key linchpin on-premise. It's a Platform as a Service product on-premise, it's built on kubernetes and darker containers, but what it really brings is that standardized cloud consumption for containerized apps on-premise. We've expanded that, of course, to our Z footprint, and let me give you a use case of clients and how they use it. We're working with a very big, regulated bank that's looking to modernize a massive monolithic piece of WebSphere application server on-premise and break it down into micro-services. They're doing that on IBM Cloud Private. They've containerized big parts of the application on WebSphere on-premise. Now they've not made that journey to the cloud, to the public cloud, but they are using... How do you modernize your existing footprint into a more containerized micro-services one? >> So this is the trend we're seeing, the decomposition of monolithic apps on-premise is step one. Let's get that down, get the culture, and attract the new, younger people who come in, not the older guys like me, mini-computer days. Really make it ready, composable, then they're ready to go to the cloud. This seems to be the steps. Talk about that dynamic, Raj, from a technical perspective. How hard is it to do that? Is it a heavy lift? Is it pretty straight-forward? >> Great question. IBM, we're all about open, right? So when it comes to our cloud strategy open is the centerpiece offered, that's why we have banked on kubernetes and containers as that standardization layer. This way you can move a workflow from private to public, even ICP can be on other cloud vendors as well, not just IBM Cloud. So it's a private cloud that customers can manage, or in the public cloud or IBM kubernetes that we manage for them. Then it's about the app, the containerized app that can be moved around and that's where our announcements about Multicloud Manager, that we made late last year come into play, which helps you seamlessly move and integrate applications that are deployed on communities across private, public or multicloud. So that abstraction venire enables that to happen and that's why the open... >> So it's an operational construct? Not an IBM product, per say, if you think about it that way. So the question I have for you, I know Stu wants to jump in, he's got some questions. I want to get to this new mindset. The world's flipped upside down. The applications and workloads are dictating architecture and programmability to the DevOps, or infrastructure, in this case, Z or cloud. This is changing the game on how the cloud selection is. So we've been having a debate on theCUBE here, publicly, that in some cases it's the best cloud for the job decision, not a procurement, "I need multi-vendor cloud," versus I have a workload that runs best with this cloud. And it might be as if you're running 365, or G Suite as Google, Amazon's got something so it seems to be the trend. Do you agree with that? And certainly, there'll be many clouds. We think that's true, it's already happened. Your thoughts on this workload driving the requirements for the cloud? Whether it's a sole purpose cloud, meaning for the app. >> That's right. I'll start and Rohit will add in as well. That's where this chapter two comes into play, as we call Chapter Two of Cloud because it is about how do you take enterprise applications, the mission-critical complex workloads, and then look for the enablers. How do you make that modernization seamless? How do you make the cloud native seamless? So in that particular journey, is where IBM cloud and our Multicloud and Hybrid Cloud strategy come into play to make that transition happen and provide the set of capabilities that enterprises are looking for to move their critical workloads across private and public in bit much more assurance and performance and scale, and that's where the work that we are doing with Z, LinuxONE set of as an underpinning to embark on the journey to move those critical workloads to their cloud. So you're absolutely right. When they look at which cloud to go, it's about capabilities, the tools, the management orchestration layers that a cloud provider or a cloud vendor provide and it's not only just about IBM Public Cloud, but it's about enabling the enterprises to provide them the choice and then offer. >> So it's not multicloud for multicloud sake, it's multicloud, that's the reality. Workload drives the functionality. >> Absolutely. We see that as well. >> Validated on theCUBE by the gurus of IBM. The cloud for the job is the best solution. >> So I guess to kind of put a bow on this, the journey we're having is talking about distributed architectures, and you know, we're down on the weeds, we've got micro-services architectures, containerization, and we're working at making those things more secure. Obviously, there's still a little bit more work to do there, but what's next is we look forward, what are the challenges customers have. They live in this, you know, heterogeneous multicloud world. What do we have to do as an industry? Where is IBM making sure that they have a leadership position? >> From my perspective, I think really the next big wave of cloud is going to be looking at those enterprise workloads. It's funny, I was just having a conversation with a very big bank in the Netherlands, and they were, of course, a very big Z client, and asking us about the breadth of our cloud strategy and how they can move forward. Really looking at a private cloud strategy helping them modernize, and then looking at which targeted workloads they could move to public cloud is going to be the next frontier. And those 80 percent of workloads that haven't moved. >> An integration is key, and for you guys competitive strategy-wise, you've got a lot of business applications running on IBM's huge customer base. Focus on those. >> Yes. >> And then give them the path to the cloud. The integration piece is where the linchpin is and OSSI secure. >> Enterprise out guys. >> Love encryption, love to follow up more on the secure container thing, I think that's a great topic. We'll follow-up after this show Raj. Thanks for coming on. theCUBE coverage here. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. Live coverage, day four, here live in San Francisco for IBM Think 2019. Stay with us more. Our next guests will be here right after a short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's TheCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Moscone North at IBM Think 2019 I'm Stu Miniman, and my cohost for this segment is Dave Vellante. Happy to welcome two IBMers from the Z Group, we have Michael Jordan, distinguished engineer, everybody I'm sure in your family calls you the Michael Jordan? >> Nah, no, no >> Not the other one? >> I won't get into what they call me. >> Rohit Badlaney, who's a director of IBM Z as a service. So Rohit, we have to start there. We're very familiar with Z, you know, all the different pieces of it, but Z as a service, something new for this week, maybe help explain what the news is and-- >> Absolutely, so my mission in life is around Z and cloud. And this week you heard Jenny talk about Hyper Protect, and Hyper Protect is a family of services built in our IBM Cloud, on a cloud-ready systems, which are the ZR1 systems, in a multi-zone platform factor, so it provides the high availability disaster recovery. There are really four key services that we're announcing at this conference. One's around crypto and key management, provides the highest levels of security for our cloud. The second's around data as a service, which does traditionally really well on the platform, as a data-serving platform. The third's virtual servers, the fourth's containers that's going to be tied in to our Kubernetes Service. So we're bringing the breadth of our Z to our cloud. >> Yeah, you know, Michael, I show my age in the industry, I remember when we talked about security was, you know, lock the door on that rack that was in, or that mainframe that sat in the corner, we knew that that was secure. It's a little bit different when we talk about security and Z these days, it's cloud, it's global, >> Sure. >> It's all over the place. >> So-- >> But in fairness, right, I mean RACF was the gold standard of security, you know, before all this distributed systems stuff. You knew, you had full visibility on who did what, when, where, you know, very very detailed. Have you been able to carry that level of transparency and rigor into the cloud? >> Yeah, so some of this is what's old is new again, so one of the key areas that is a big focus for security in the cloud is encryption, right? You know encryption is going to a central part of being able to move data to the cloud, and the concepts of being able to bring your own key, is absolutely essential, and some of the capabilities that we've had on the Z platform for a very long time actually lend themselves extremely well to a cloud environment so for example, our cryptographic hardware can be virtualized, right? So each server can have 16 cryptographic cards, with 85 virtual domains per card, so you multiply that out it's, really serves cloud scale very well. And in addition to that, the cryptographic hardware is designed to meet the highest level of security certification standards, so a combination of security, and that virtualization really lends itself to offering a set of cloud services. >> If I think about the workloads that are running on Z, clearly there's no business case to move them off Z, into some commodity cloud, that would make no sense. You'd put your business at risk if you did that. But what's the business case of Hyper Protect, and Z as a service, could you talk about that a little bit? >> Yeah, so today our focus is primarily to elevate the security of our core and our cloud. If you look at what we are doing, it's around our Linux systems and not our traditional z/OS systems, and we're really focusing on where Z differentiates. It's around, you know Mike talked about key management, and key protection. It's around data protection, it's around scale. So the workloads, to your point, that do really well on the platform, are workloads that need that level of infrastructure characteristics. And it's not a well-known fact, but actually our Blockchain platform, and all the success IBM's had on Blockchain, has been running in our cloud, on our Z systems, over the last two years with 500 plus clients. Right, so those are the kind of workloads that benefit from the hardware characteristics, as well as the security characteristics. >> Just double-click on that, so you think Blockchain, often times you're thinking about distributed apps, you know, you think about transaction limits, et cetera et cetera, so what are the attributes of Z that lend itself well to those workloads? >> Oh that's a great question, so, several attributes, right? Definitely the key protection, and the data protection on Z, the sheer TPS, you know it's funny, I was actually with our BC doing a session today, and they were talking about the transaction per second they get by just running on Z versus commodity hardware. And they've had tremendous success, right? So those two, combined with you know, our Blockchain technology in our cloud runs on something called a Secure Services Container, which is an absolutely locked down container that no one can get access to. And those are the characteristics that, if you think about permissioned blockchain, that's where Z excels. So that's. >> One of the discussions we've been having is that, in a multi-cloud world I have different skillsets for the different environments. Can you give me a little compare/contrast how security fits in Z versus you know, x86, Linux, and public clouds? And also, how do I, as a customer, manage across those environments from a security standpoint? >> Sure, so a couple points on there. You know, one is, one of the benefits that we have with Z is we control a large portion of the stack, right? So we're able to integrate security into multiple layers of the stack. So Rohit mentioned the Secure Service Container, and that combines a number of capabilities that we've built in from the hardware, the firmware, the operating system, end to end. So for example, the Secure Service Container by default, all of the code and data associated with with one of these Secure Service Containers is encrypted. You don't have to do anything, it's, you deploy an application in of these containers, everything gets encrypted, in flight and at rest. And there's no configuration, no set up for that, it happens automatically. We validate, digitally sign and validate all of the firmware, the operating system, the application, and the entire package that gets loaded into one of these environments, to protect against introducing malware to that environment, and lastly is we block and restrict administrative access to prevent administrators from having uncontrolled access to the file system. So looking at that, right, since we own that stack and we can really integrate those security capabilities vertically through that stack to give the true value and the capabilities that you need in the cloud to protect both the application and the data. >> And that's always been the strength of the mainframe, is like you said, security's not a bolt-on, it's designed in from the very beginning. I mean when I started in the business, whatever IBM did with the 390, or whatever it was at the time-- >> You're dating yourself. >> Yeah, that's true. But the whole industry would focus on that. And then, frankly, IBM in the early '90s kind of lost it's way because it had that sort of install base, and it didn't really have to innovate. That's not the case today, you guys, well you have an install base who eats up, sort of every new cycle of Z. You've had to innovate, you've had to really invest in the roadmap, and stay current. Whether it's, you mentioned Blockchain, certainly Linux, et cetera. Now infusing AI as a service, so I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the sort of roadmap that you and your colleagues are on. Without obviously divulging futures, but there's a legacy there that you've invested in, and had to keep really current with some of the major industry trends to keep your clients happy. >> Yeah, and I'll weigh in and then Mike can jump in. I mean, the legacy of Z has always been scale, performance, hyper security, for the most regulated industries, for the most compliant industries, and our biggest enterprises. And that's going to continue, and the next generation of Z's going to continue down that theme. We are very focused on making Z part of the cloud. And so, there's a breadth of announcements, and I know we talked about Hyper Protect and the public cloud, but we're also expanding the Kubernetes orchestration on-premise with our IBM Cloud private product being supported fully on LinuxOne, and expanding it to Linux workloads, and z/OS workloads. And that is, you know, the cloudification of the platform is, I think, the next big step for us. >> But, so what's the real business driver for clients there? Is it just the notion of pay by the drink, and as a service? I mean obviously mainframe invented virtualization, and simplified management, and was always a key part of it, a key tenet. What's the real business driver for people to move to the cloud? >> I mean, in my view guys, it's the speed that they need to move at, right? I mean, you look at why we are standardizing on PaaS platforms, whether it's on the cloud or on-premise. The teams are constantly getting pushed to move faster, DevOps, now there's a new concept of DevSecOps, right? It's all about speed that's driving the need for the cloudification of the platform. The other reason is skills, right? Can I work with the mainframe in a way that I'm abstracting away the special skills needed, but I could still move with that speed in the DevOps cycle, right? So I think it's a combination of those both that's really driving this. >> And from a security perspective, I think a couple of the key points are looking ahead we're really focused on the data, right? How do we allow organizations, 'cause it's going to happen, right? Organizations will need to move data, whether it's temporarily, or longer term. They're going to need to move data to the cloud, that's just, it's a fact of life. So, how do we leverage and harness the capabilities that we have, that we've been talking about with the Z platform to enable clients to securely move their applications, pieces of applications, and data to the cloud so they can take advantage of the capabilities that Rohit was doing, with confidence that their data is not going to be compromised. And that includes a data-centric approach to protection of data, as well as protecting encryption keys and leveraging and taking advantage of the capabilities that we have on the platform for key protection, which is already a key part of the solution that we're bringing to market today. >> So the Z customer that bets his or her business on your platform, I mean, it's embedded, it's fundamental. What's the reaction been to Hyper Protect, you know, kind of feedback that you've had from clients? >> You know, everyone wants to be cloud today, right? So the reaction is actually been really positive. You know we've been working with our biggest Z clients, through what we call the Z Design Council, you know, validating the story. Because we want to help them on this enterprise-out journey. And the reaction has been good. Now, it's, it really depends on where they are on their cloud journey as well, right? Some are very much still want to be an on-premise shop, and some are aggressively moving to the public cloud. So our goal's really to intercept them wherever they are on that cloud journey. >> Yeah well many of them have a cloud mandate, right? >> Absolutely. >> Well, and I have clients come up to me on almost a continuous basis. When they look at what we, the capabilities that we've delivered with our z14 machine, and the cryptographic horsepower that we have with that machine, they're looking at it and saying hey, how do I harness this as a, you know, a crypto as a service for our enterprise? Which is kind of the precursor to what we're doing with the Hyper Protect services, but there is a keen interest from organizations to have a secure, performant, secure, stable environment for cryptographic services because, encryption is becoming ubiquitous, so providing that capability I think is significant. >> Yeah, and our goal, like Mike said, is really to make security easy, right? Whether it's in the public cloud and the enterprise developers don't have to worry about it. Can they get the levels of security that they need for their enterprises, or their enterprise workloads, but in an easy, cloud-native consumption model? That's really what Hyper Protect is. >> Yeah, I guess so final question is, what's the pricing implications of this new offering, and how do customers get started? Is this ready, shipping today? >> It's shipping in March. It's available today, that's the beauty of cloud, right? We went through what we call the experimental services, it's available in beta today. You could go to our IBM Cloud Catalog, access it, get it, try it. >> Great, give you a final word and takeaways you want people to have when it comes to security in the Z space. >> Yeah, so I think the main thing is that Z has a very proud tradition of security leadership and innovation, and what we're bringing to the market here is just another example of that security leadership and innovation. >> All right, well Michael and Rohit, thank you so much for bringing us the update-- >> Thanks, guys. >> Congratulations, on bringing the product to market. >> Thank you. >> Look forward to-- >> Good luck with it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys so much. >> All right, for Dave Vellante, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back to wrap up our day three of four days live, wall-to-wall coverage here, from Moscone North, IBM Think 2019, thanks for watching TheCube. (energetic techno music)

>> Live from Los Angeles, it's theCube covering Open Source Summit North America 2017 brought to you by the Linux Foundation and Red Hat. >> Hey welcome back everyone, live here at Los Angeles, California it's theCUBE's exclusive coverage of the Open Source Summit in North America. I'm John Furrier, your host with my co-host Stu Miniman with Wikibon, and our next two guests, Alan Dickenson who is the program director of the blockchain platform at IBM and Shaun Frankson, who's the co-founder and TED speaker at a company called The Plastic Bank doing some truly amazing things with technology for the betterment of society and communities. We'll get this out in a second. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> So two important things honestly. IBM, well-known in the history books that's being written. Real proponent of Linux, they were one of the early guys in during that movement, with a billion dollars in cash. That's a big number. You guys went all in on Linux, good bet, Linux was successful, it's now the standard so congratulations. Now you have the same thing going on with Blockchain. IBM's got the big bet, the company's best brains at work working on blockchain, kind of reminds me of the Linux move back in the day. Pretty impressive. >> Yeah I mean, there's a lot going on with Blockchain and one of the reasons we're here is that this is a developer event. We really want to help accelerate technology adoption and with our platform we launched two weeks ago, we have a whole suite of capabilities that developers can use that's complimentary, that's free and they can use that to go and try blockchain with a Hyperledger Composer and they can experiment and work on blockchain projects. >> You know I love the IBM marketing department, they always have the best commercials. To me I also love the Smarter Planet and I think Shaun, I would like to give you a chance to talk about your amazing project you have going on. Take a minute to explain, you're up on stage here at the event, pretty compelling, great social good, real value. What's some tech behind it. Take a minute to talk about your work. >> At The Plastic Bank we make plastic waste a currency so in developing countries it can be too valuable to enter the ocean. So the mission to use technology to stop ocean plastic. So we create a recycling ecosystems all around the world where people can go out, recycle the plastic that's abundant in the environment, they can earn enough value to provide for their families, send their kids to school and we have this entire ecosystem where we gather the plastic, we have these incentive programs to sort it, recycle, then we actually sell it back to some of the world's largest corporations who can use that recycled social plastic in their products instead of using new plastic. Which means that every single product tells a story of stopping ocean plastic, reducing global poverty and this really allows just a responsible consumer to make a choice that's helping to stop ocean plastic in the end. >> Well great story I just want to drill down because this highlights couple of big trends we've seen in the Internet business as it got into Big Data. And certainly you guys know a lot about that at IBM. The collective intelligence idea of having these self-forming communities, you think of any problem. Recycling plastic, which is not that hard to do, you go to the placement. How do you get it institutionalized? Is the collective intelligence problem. So you got a clever idea to do this but you also have to support it. There's a lot of cost involved so how did you pull this together? What were some of the nuance to keep the incentives, to keep the motivation, to create the payouts. We all recycle our cans for five cents at some points in our lives, I remember when I was in college it helped me a lot. But it's a whole other scale here. Take a minute to talk about the technology. >> For sure. So we're starting in developing countries that essentially have almost no existing waste management systems so we're really starting from the ground and looking at the way of how do we remove the dangers of the cash-based systems, instead have an asset-backed token that we can safely distribute and create new abilities. So really we're dealing with the unbankable who can now for the first time, save and earn through recycling. So it's not really not looking of how do we go back to you know, what's been done in the past, it's how do we take an area and start with the best technology that exists to safely bring in these new systems. >> When you say unbankable, what does that mean? >> I mean sadly, but most of the world does not qualify for a bank account. They don't have the identity, they don't have the credit history, so it's simple concept of how do you save 200 dollars to send your kid to school. You essentially hide it under a mattress and hope that nothing happens in between. But when you can safely have a digital wallet, it's just instant savings. >> Mobile phone penetration is pretty high in these areas, so they might have mobility but no actual institutional credit bank account, am I getting that right? >> Oh exactly. It's amazing when we think there's countries with no power but who have phones. So that means the education of the mobile payments is still there, it's not a foreign concept, but now you can earn the tokens which can then even be converted into mobile payment. Again where recycling is the equal opportunity. >> So are you using the blockchain component, IBM blockchain, or are you guys using a derivatives, what's the tech? >> So we use IBM blockchain, Hyperledger Fabric and LinuxOne and you know it's a system designed to scale around the world without any interruptions and just it's a go big go at home and do it right. >> You mentioned LinuxOne and I believe there's some announcements week around how to secure containers even more and we've been trying LinuxOne, Linux on the mainframe for quite a few years. Give us the update on what's new. >> One of the new things that we're announcing at this year's show is Emperor II. It's a new Linux platform and it's the technology that's underpinning The Plastic Bank's blockchain. The other thing that we're announcing is the beta for Secure Services Containers. Around the globe we have a lot of cases where data is stolen and blockchain's another type of data, we don't want it to get stolen even though there's a lot of encryption in blockchain. We still don't want the data stolen and people trying to get at it. So we have this idea of Secure Service Containers that kind of wraps around the application and protects it from malware, protects it from insiders, can't see it, insider credentials get compromised, goes into the main ways, data gets stolen. You have to do it that way. Even if IBM gets a court order for us to reveal your blockchain data, we can't do it. It's protected and encrypted in this area, and only you have the encryption keys. So the beta for that is something we also announced today. And then two weeks ago we announced the blockchain platform, it's kind of a technology that we put in place to accelerate and help people. >> Security is a huge issue, I mean the ICO marker for instance, remind me of the old stagecoach robberies, right. You literally do like a multimillion dollar ICO, completely a secured, when you're getting your wallet getting snatched, you're getting hijacked, is that something that is related to that? Or is that just a point of the security is still an open book? I mean you can have secure transactions on the blockchain but you still got your wallets out there, so you got to have a wallet strategy. >> Most of the Secure Container technology can be used for any Linux application that you run when it's out of beta. Right now it's in beta. So we're looking for users that want to have a very secure application environment, running on Linux and sign then up for our beta. >> Shaun can you tell us, what led you to this solution? I'm sure security has got to be high on your list, the kind of financial transactions that are involved in it, but I have to say a young small company, mainframe is not the initial thing that we think of. >> Again, the only way to solve the global problems is really go on such a scale that we can have hundreds of millions of pounds provided to the world's largest companies. Which just means it's got to be large scale, no interruptions and for us, trust is the biggest thing. Investor trust, client trust, and just even everyone's trust that not only the financial side, but you know we're delivering a promise of social good, environmental justice, that if we get an irrefutable trust that it's just the right system, and to me, blockchain's a trust stamp, IBM's a trust stamp, LinuxOne is a trust stamp that just it's the right way to do it on a global scale. And for us it was global was the only way to go. >> And now of course, the supply chain is a channel that you're dealing with that blockchain is a good fit for. A lot of these early use cases, their supply chain like, well you got to keep track of a lot of moving parts and who's contributing to what. >> You can have a digital token that represents the physical asset and you can kind of track it through that way and blockchain can keep the information safe and documented so that you don't lose track of the value. >> Well we're super excited. As you know, we're looking at blockchain for our audience and our world, so it's interesting, a lot of the blockchain, certainly people see the hype and the scams out there and the ICO stuff, which is natural, they're early market, the underbelly kind of shows itself, we've seen that movie before. But, here's the thing that I've never seen in my career ever. Very often, when you have alpha geeks getting super excited, we're talking CTOs, really strong technical people, and A plus entrepreneurs, they're salivating at the blockchain opportunity because they're the canaries in the coal mines in my opinion on disruption opportunities. You seeing use cases where I can solve that problem, people with passion are going after these new opportunities that were ungettable before because you'd have to roll out this complex software product, all these costs to get started. Same pattern. >> We're seeing a lot of technology people get excited about it. But they understand the technology relatively quickly and they can get it. What seems to be slowing down a lot of blockchain adoption is more the linkages with other organizations because when you're exchanging value, you're passing it between one organization and another, and another and a value chain. And getting that value chain where you can articulate who it is, and codifying the ways that you work with the people in the value chain and create a smart contract around that, that's what we see slowing down the progress of blockchain. >> We had Brian Behlendorf on yesterday, he runs the SmartLedger project for the group and we talked about decentralizations versus distributive, we all know what distributive computing is, we've seen that. But now with decentralizations, he had a good quote, he said, minimum viable decentralization and 'cause if people think that you have to have a completely decentralized environment which I thought was a really good observation. >> I agree, I heard him say that and it reminded me of one of the steps we see in blockchain progression is we have to get a minimum viable ecosystem together. We see people sometimes biting off too big of a problem and one thing I like about The Plastic Bank's approach is that they try to get it working right somewhere first and then scale from there. And then the same thing with blockchain. You have to get your ecosystem defined, you have to get that working and then expand from there. And that's one of the things that we've designed into our blockchain platform, is the ability to govern a group of folks that are trying to exchange value and then also how to operate a blockchain once it's exchanging value with a group of folks. Things like, lets say you have a new version of Hyperledger Fabric, you want to take down your blockchain that's operating while you install the new version, but we've made sure that you can do that in a smooth way that keeps on running. >> You know Alan, that is a super smart observation. I hundred percent agree with you. I've always said this, and Stu and I and Dave, we talked about this. Blockchain is a community win. The community could win this together as the community participants increase in that kind of philosophy, the value increases. If it's a winner take all, it doesn't work, clearly. So what do you guys with the ecosystem? That's a good question. Are you guys investing in the ecosystem? Can you give some examples. Obviously you're supporting great projects. >> We've built a lot of technology but one of the things that is unique about IBM's approach to blockchain is the governance tools that we've created to help manage the ecosystem. We're the only blockchain partner out there right now that has these kind of ecosystem partner tools that can kind of speed the creation of bringing multi parties together and helping them think through how they should govern the creation and then also the operation of the blockchain. What if you want to add a few more members after your blockchain is running? That's a technology problem, but it's also a business problem. And will your blockchain keep running? >> Well we'll keep in touch, we definitely want to do a lot more coverage on what you guys are doing. I think it's instrumental, we're doing a lot of coverage as well on the ICO side, tracking that business side of it, but down on the enterprise it's a lot of activity coming and I think Accenture is going to do very well. Shaun, get back to you for a second. Want to ask you a quick question. On a personal note, what has been a learning from your process? You're doing, what seems to be probably an exciting and intoxicating job where you're making social good happen, using some tech. I mean, it's a cool project. Assuming there's been some bumps along the road like any other entrepreneurial venture. What are some of the learnings you've taken away from where you are today, where you've come from and what you achieved? What are some personal learnings? >> I think really the two biggest things is one, especially coming from just a entrepreneurial nature, it's not what you know, it's what you can figure out. There's always a how. And for us, when it was when you come up with such a giant idea and you just know where it's going and where it can go past there. Mentally just becoming the person capable of achieving what you are trying to achieve as compared to getting caught up on all the things you don't know, I mean the more you know, the more you know how much you don't know and it's really just getting inspired by the fact that whatever the next answer, whatever the next hiccup, whatever the next how, we'll figure it out. I might now know the answer, but I'm committed to figuring it out and committed to becoming the person capable of figuring it out. And you know it's a journey and process and an inspiring journey to be on. >> You got to dream the future to create it. What you're saying is it's a growth mindset, I love that growth mindset, say hey we're going to go after it, we're going to see some things and have to figure it out, that's a great mindset. Versus nervousness and insecurity. Good job, well done. Well congratulations on your success and thanks for coming on theCUBE, we really appreciate it. Alan, we look forward to chatting with you in the future and talking blockchain. IBM here on theCUBE with the great projects they're doing on blockchain and also they had an announcement a couple weeks ago around some really cutting edge value around food distribution and value chain so again, Smarter Planet, I know you guys do a lot of investments early on but congratulations, and continued success Shaun. Live coverage here from the Open Source Summit in Los Angeles, California. It's theCube, I'm John Furrier, Stu Minniman, be right back with more after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by, IBM. >> Okay welcome back everyone, we're here live in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect 2017, this is the Cube coverage here, in Las Vegas for IBM's cloud and data shows. It turns out, I'm John Furrier, with my cohost Dave Vellante, next guess is Jamie Thomas, general manager of systems development and strategy at IBM, Cube Alum. Great to see you, welcome back. >> Thank you, great to see you guys as usual. >> So, huge crowds here. This is I think, the biggest show I've been to for IBM. It's got lines around the corner, just a ton of traffic online, great event. But it's the cloud show, but it's a little bit different. What's the twist here today at InterConnect? >> Well, if you saw the Keynote, I think we've definitely demonstrated that while we're focused on differentiating experience on the cloud through cloud native services, we're also interesting in bridging existing clients IT investments into that environment. So, supporting hybrid cloud scenarios, understanding how we can provide connective fabric solutions, if you will, to enable clients to run mobile applications on the cloud and take advantage of the investments they've made and their existing transactional infrastructure over a period of time. And so the Keynote really featured that combination of capabilities and what we're doing to bring those solution areas to clients and allow them to be productive. >> And the hybrid cloud is front and center, obviously. IOT on the data side, you've seen a lot of traction there. AI and machine learning, kind of powering and lifting this up, it's a systems world now, I mean this is the area that you're in. Cause you have the component pieces, the composibility of that. How are you guys facilitating the hybrid cloud journey for customers? Because now, it's not just all here it is, I might have a little bit of this and a little bit of that, so you have this component-isationer composobility that app developers are consistent with, yet the enterprises want that work load flexibility. What do you guys do to facilitate that? >> Well we absolutely believe that infrastructure innovation is critical on this hybrid cloud journey. And we're really focused on three main areas when we think about that innovation. So, integration, security, and supportive cognitive workloads. When we look at things like integration, we're focused on developers as key stake holders. We have to support the open communities and frameworks that they're leveraging, we have to support API's and allow them to tap into our infrastructure and those investments once again, and we also have to ensure that data and workload can be flexibly moved around in the future because these will allow better characteristics for developers in terms of how they're designing their applications as they move forward with this journey. >> And the insider threat, though, is a big thing too. >> Yes. >> I mean security is not only table stakes, it's a highly sensitive area. >> It's a given. And as you said, it's not just about protecting from the outside threats, it's about protecting from internal threats, even from those who may have privileged access to the systems, so that's why, with our systems infrastructure, we have protected from the chip, all the way through the levels of hardware into the software layer. You heard us talk about some of that today with the shipment of secure service containers that allow us to support the system both at install time and run time, and support the applications and the data appropriately. These systems that run Blockchain, our high security Blockchain services, LinuxONE, we have the highest certification in the industry, EAL five plus, and we're supporting FIPS 120-two, level four cryptology. So it's about protecting at all layers of the system, because our perspective is, there's not a traditional barrier, data is the new perimeter of security. So you've got to protect the data, at rest, in motion, and across the life cycle of the data. >> Let's go back to integration for a second. Give us an example of some of the integrations that you're doing that are high profile. >> Well one of the key integrations is that a lot of clients are creating new mobile applications. They're tapping back into the transactions that reside in the mainframe environment, so we've invested in ZOS Connect and this API set of capabilities to allow clients to do that. It's very prevalent in many different industries, whether it's retail banking, the retail sector, we have a lot of examples of that. It's allowing them to create new services as well. So it's not just about extending the system, but being able to create entirely new solutions. And the areas of credit card services is a good example. Some of the organizations are doing that. And it allows for developer productivity. >> And then, on the security side, where does encryption fit? You mentioned you're doing some stuff at the chip level, end to end encryption. >> Yeah it really, it's at all levels, right? From the chip level, through the firmware levels. Also, we've added encryption capability to ensure that data is encrypted at rest, as well as in motion, and we've done that in a way that encrypts these data sets that are heavily used in the main frame environment as an example, without impending on developer productivity. So that's another key aspect of how we look at this. How can we provide this data protection? But once again, not slow down the velocity of the developers. Cause if we slow down the velocity of the developers, they will be an inhibitor to achieving the end goal. >> How important is the ecosystem on that point? Because you have security, again, end to end, you guys have that fully, you're protecting the data as it moves around, so it's not just in storage, it's everywhere, moving around, in flight, as they say. But now you got ecosystem parties, cause you got API economy, you're dealing with no perimeter, but now also you have relationships as technology partners. >> Yes, well the ecosystem is really important. So if we think about it from a developer perspective, obviously supporting these open frameworks is critical. So supporting Linux and Docker and Spark and all of those things. But also, to be able to innovate at the rate and pace we need, particularly for things like cognitive workloads, that's why we created the Open Power Foundation. So we have more than 300 partners that we're able to innovate with, that allow us to create the solutions that we think we'll need for these cognitive workloads. >> What is a cognitive workload? >> So a cognitive workload is what I would call an extremely data hungry workload, the example that we can all think of is we're expecting, when we experience the world around us, we're expecting services to be brought to us, right, the digital economy understands our desires and wants and reacts immediately. So all of that is driving, that expectation is driving this growth and artificial intelligence, machine learning, deep learning type algorithms. Depending on what industry you're in, they take on a different persona, but there's so many different problems that can be solved by this, whether it's I need to have more insight into the retail offers I provide to an in consumer, to I need to be able to do fraud analytics because I'm in the financial services industry, there's so many examples of these cognitive applications. The key factors are just, tremendous amount of data, and a constrained amount of time to get business insight back to someone. >> When you do these integrations and you talk about the security investments that you're making, how do you balance the resource allocation between say, IBM platforms, mainframe, power, and the OS's, the power in those, and Linux, for example, which is such a mainstay of what you guys are doing. Are you doing those integrations on the open side as well in Linux and going deep into the core, or is it mostly focused on, sort of, IBM owned technology? >> So it really depends on what problem we're trying to solve. So, for instance, if we're trying to solve a problem where we're marrying data insight with a transaction, we're going to implement a lot of that capability on ZOS, cause we want to make sure that we're reducing data latency and how we execute the processing, if you will. If we're looking at things like new work loads and evolution of new work loads, and new things are being created, that's more naturally fit for purpose from a Linux perspective. So we have to use judgment, a lot of the new programming, the new applications, are naturally going to be done on a Linux platform, cause once again that's a platform of choice for the developer community. So, we have to think about whether we're trying to leverage existing transactions with speed, or whether we're allowing developers to create new assets, and that's a key factor in what we look at. >> Jamie, your role, is somewhat unique inside of IBM, the title of GM system's development and strategy. So what's your scope, specifically? >> So, I'm responsible for the systems development involved in our processor's mainframes, power systems, and storage. And of course, as a strategy person for a unit like that, I have responsibility for thinking about these hybrid scenarios and what do we need to do to make our clients successful on this journey? How do we take advantage of their tremendous investments they made with us over years. We have strong responsibility for those investments and making sure the clients get value. And also understanding where they need to go in the future and evolving our architecture and our strategic decisions, along those lines. >> So you influence development? >> Jamie: Yes. >> In a big way, obviously. It's a lot of roadmap work. >> Jamie: Yes. >> A lot of working with clients to figure out requirements? >> Well I have client support too, so I have to make sure things run. >> What about quantum computing? This has been a big topic, what's the road map look like? What's the evolution of that look like? Talk about that initiative. >> Well if I gave you the full road map they'd take me out of here with a hook out of this chair. >> You're too good for that, damn, almost got it from you. >> But we did announce the industries first commercial universal quantum computing project. A few weeks ago. It's called IBM Q, so we had some clever branding help, because Q makes me think of the personality in the James Bond movie who was always involved in the latest R&D research activity. And it really is the culmination of decades of research between IBM researchers and researchers around the world, to create this system that hopefully can solve problems to date, that are unsolvable today with classical computers. So, problems in areas like material science and chemistry. Last year we had announced quantum experience, which is an online access to a quantum capabilities in our Yorktown research laboratory. And over the last year, we've had more than 40,000 users access this capability. And they've actually executed a tremendous number of experiments. So we've learned from that, and now we're on this next leg of the journey. And we see a world where IBM Q could work together with our classical computers to solve really really tough problems. >> And that computing is driving a lot of the IOT, whether that's health care, to industrial, and everything in between. >> Well we're in the early stages of quantum, to be fair, but there's a lot of unique problems that we believe that it will solve. We do not believe that everything, of course, will move from classical to quantum. It will be a combination, an evolution, of the capabilities working together. But it's a very different system and it will have unique properties that allow us to do things differently. >> So, what are the basics? Why quantum computing? I presume it's performance, scale, cost, but it's not traditional, binary, computing, is that right? >> Yes. It's very, very different. In fact, if. >> Oh we just got the two minute sign. >> It's a very different computing model. It's a very different physical, computing model, right? It's built on this unit called a Q bit, and the interesting thing about a Q bit is it could be both a zero and a one at the same time. So it kind of twists our minds a little bit. But because of that, and those properties, it can solve very unique problems. But we're at the early part of the journey. So this year, our goal is to work with some organizations, learn from the commercialization of some of the first systems, which will be run in a cloud hosted model. And then we'll go from there. But, it's very promising. >> In the timeframe for commercial systems, have you guys released that? >> Well, this year, we'll start the commercial journey, but within the next few years we do plan to have a quantum computer that would then, basically, out strip the power of the largest super computers that we have today in the industry. But that's, you know, over the next few years we'll be evolving to that level. Because eventually, that's the goal, right? Is to solve the problems that we can't solve with today's classical computers. >> Talk about real quickly, in the last couple minutes, Blockchain, and where that's going, because you have a lot of banks and financial institutions looking at this as part of the messaging and the announcements here. >> Well, Blockchain is one of those workloads of course that we're optimizing with a lot that security work that I talked about earlier so. The target of our high security Blockchain services is LinuxONE, is driving a lot of encryption strategy. This week, in fact, we've seen a number of examples of Blockchain. One was talked about this morning, which was around diamond provenance, from the Everledger organization. Very clever implementation of Blockchain. We've had a number of financial institutions that are using Blockchain. And I also showed an interesting example today. Plastic Bank, which is an organization that's using Blockchain to allow ecosystem improvement, or improving our planet, if you will, by allowing communities to exchange plastic, recyclable plastic for currency. So it's really about enabling plastic to be turned into currency through the use of Blockchain. So a very novel example of a foundational research organization improving the environment and allowing communities to take advantage of that. >> Jamie thanks for stopping by the Cube, really appreciate giving the update and insight into the quantum, the Q project, and all the greatness around, all the hard work going to into the hybrid cloud, the security-osity is super important, thanks for sharing. >> It's good to see you. >> Okay we're live here, in Mandalay Bay, for IBM InterConnect 2017, stay with us for more live coverage, after this short break.