(upbeat music) >> Good morning everybody. Welcome back to Las Vegas. This is day four of theCUBE's wall-to-wall coverage of our Super Bowl, aka AWS re:Invent 2022. I'm here with my co-host, Paul Gillin. My name is Dave Vellante. Sanjay Poonen is in the house, CEO and president of Cohesity. He's sitting in as our guest market watcher, market analyst, you know, deep expertise, new to the job at Cohesity. He was kind enough to sit in, and help us break down what's happening at re:Invent. But Paul, first thing, this morning we heard from Werner Vogels. He was basically given a masterclass on system design. It reminded me of mainframes years ago. When we used to, you know, bury through those IBM blue books and red books. You remember those Sanjay? That's how we- learned back then. >> Oh God, I remember those, Yeah. >> But it made me think, wow, now you know IBM's more of a systems design, nobody talks about IBM anymore. Everybody talks about Amazon. So you wonder, 20 years from now, you know what it's going to be. But >> Well- >> Werner's amazing. >> He pulled out a 24 year old document. >> Yup. >> That he had written early in Amazon's evolution about synchronous design or about essentially distributed architectures that turned out to be prophetic. >> His big thing was nature is asynchronous. So systems are asynchronous. Synchronous is an illusion. It's an abstraction. It's kind of interesting. But, you know- >> Yeah, I mean I've had synonyms for things. Timeless architecture. Werner's an absolute legend. I mean, when you think about folks who've had, you know, impact on technology, you think of people like Jony Ive in design. >> Dave: Yeah. >> You got to think about people like Werner in architecture and just the fact that Andy and the team have been able to keep him engaged that long... I pay attention to his keynote. Peter DeSantis has obviously been very, very influential. And then of course, you know, Adam did a good job, you know, watching from, you know, having watched since I was at the first AWS re:Invent conference, at time was President SAP and there was only a thousand people at this event, okay? Andy had me on stage. I think I was one of the first guest of any tech company in 2011. And to see now this become like, it's a mecca. It's a mother of all IT events, and watch sort of even the transition from Andy to Adam is very special. I got to catch some of Ruba's keynote. So while there's some new people in the mix here, this has become a force of nature. And the last time I was here was 2019, before Covid, watched the last two ones online. But it feels like, I don't know 'about what you guys think, it feels like it's back to 2019 levels. >> I was here in 2019. I feel like this was bigger than 2019 but some people have said that it's about the same. >> I think it was 60,000 versus 50,000. >> Yes. So close. >> It was a little bigger in 2019. But it feels like it's more active. >> And then last year, Sanjay, you weren't here but it was 25,000, which was amazing 'cause it was right in that little space between Omicron, before Omicron hit. But you know, let me ask you a question and this is really more of a question about Amazon's maturity and I know you've been following them since early days. But the way I get the question, number one question I get from people is how is Amazon AWS going to be different under Adam than it was under Andy? What do you think? >> I mean, Adam's not new because he was here before. In some senses he knows the Amazon culture from prior, when he was running sales and marketing prior. But then he took the time off and came back. I mean, this will always be, I think, somewhat Andy's baby, right? Because he was the... I, you know, sent him a text, "You should be really proud of what you accomplished", but you know, I think he also, I asked him when I saw him a few weeks ago "Are you going to come to re:Invent?" And he says, "No, I want to leave this to be Adam's show." And Adam's going to have a slightly different view. His keynotes are probably half the time. It's a little bit more vision. There was a lot more customer stories at the beginning of it. Taking you back to the inspirational pieces of it. I think you're going to see them probably pulling up the stack and not just focused in infrastructure. Many of their platform services are evolved. Many of their, even application services. I'm surprised when I talk to customers. Like Amazon Connect, their sort of call center type technologies, an app layer. It's getting a lot. I mean, I've talked to a couple of Fortune 500 companies that are moving off Ayer to Connect. I mean, it's happening and I did not know that. So it's, you know, I think as they move up the stack, the platform's gotten more... The data centric stack has gotten, and you know, in the area we're working with Cohesity, security, data protection, they're an investor in our company. So this is an important, you know, both... I think tech player and a partner for many companies like us. >> I wonder the, you know, the marketplace... there's been a big push on the marketplace by all the cloud companies last couple of years. Do you see that disrupting the way softwares, enterprise software is sold? >> Oh, for sure. I mean, you have to be a ostrich with your head in the sand to not see this wave happening. I mean, what's it? $150 billion worth of revenue. Even though the growth rates dipped a little bit the last quarter or so, it's still aggregatively between Amazon and Azure and Google, you know, 30% growth. And I think we're still in the second or third inning off a grand 1 trillion or 2 trillion of IT, shifting not all of it to the cloud, but significantly faster. So if you add up all of the big things of the on-premise world, they're, you know, they got to a certain size, their growth is stable, but stalling. These guys are growing significantly faster. And then if you add on top of them, platform companies the data companies, Snowflake, MongoDB, Databricks, you know, Datadog, and then apps companies on top of that. I think the move to the Cloud is inevitable. In SaaS companies, I don't know why you would ever implement a CRM solution on-prem. It's all gone to the Cloud. >> Oh, it is. >> That happened 15 years ago. I mean, begin within three, five years of the advent of Salesforce. And the same thing in HR. Why would you deploy a HR solution now? You've got Workday, you've got, you know, others that are so some of those apps markets are are just never coming back to an on-prem capability. >> Sanjay, I want to ask you, you built a reputation for being able to, you know, forecast accurately, hit your plan, you know, you hit your numbers, you're awesome operator. Even though you have a, you know, technology degree, which you know, that's a two-tool star, multi-tool star. But I call it the slingshot economy. This is like, I mean I've seen probably more downturns than anybody in here, you know, given... Well maybe, maybe- >> Maybe me. >> You and I both. I've never seen anything like this, where where visibility is so unpredictable. The economy is sling-shotting. It's like, oh, hurry up, go Covid, go, go go build, build, build supply, then pull back. And now going forward, now pulling back. Slootman said, you know, on the call, "Hey the guide, is the guide." He said, "we put it out there, We do our best to hit it." But you had CrowdStrike had issues you know, mid-market, ServiceNow. I saw McDermott on the other day on the, on the TV. I just want to pay, you know, buy from the guy. He's so (indistinct) >> But mixed, mixed results, Salesforce, you know, Octa now pre-announcing, hey, they're going to be, or announcing, you know, better visibility, forward guide. Elastic kind of got hit really hard. HPE and Dell actually doing really well in the enterprise. >> Yep. >> 'Course Dell getting killed in the client. But so what are you seeing out there? How, as an executive, do you deal with such poor visibility? >> I think, listen, what the last two or three years have taught us is, you know, with the supply chain crisis, with the surge that people thought you may need of, you know, spending potentially in the pandemic, you have to start off with your tech platform being 10 x better than everybody else. And differentiate, differentiate. 'Cause in a crowded market, but even in a market that's getting tougher, if you're not differentiating constantly through technology innovation, you're going to get left behind. So you named a few places, they're all technology innovators, but even if some of them are having challenges, and then I think you're constantly asking yourselves, how do you move from being a point product to a platform with more and more services where you're getting, you know, many of them moving really fast. In the case of Roe, I like him a lot. He's probably one of the most savvy operators, also that I respect. He calls these speedboats, and you know, his core platform started off with the firewall network security. But he's built now a very credible cloud security, cloud AI security business. And I think that's how you need to be thinking as a tech executive. I mean, if you got core, your core beachhead 10 x better than everybody else. And as you move to adjacencies in these new platforms, have you got now speedboats that are getting to a point where they are competitive advantage? Then as you think of the go-to-market perspective, it really depends on where you are as a company. For a company like our size, we need partners a lot more. Because if we're going to, you know, stand on the shoulders of giants like Isaac Newton said, "I see clearly because I stand on the shoulders giants." I need to really go and cultivate Amazon so they become our lead partner in cloud. And then appropriately Microsoft and Google where I need to. And security. Part of what we announced last week was, last month, yeah, last couple of weeks ago, was the data security alliance with the biggest security players. What was I trying to do with that? First time ever done in my industry was get Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Wallace, Tenable, CyberArk, Splunk, all to build an alliance with me so I could stand on their shoulders with them helping me. If you're a bigger company, you're constantly asking yourself "how do you make sure you're getting your, like Amazon, their top hundred customers spending more with that?" So I think the the playbook evolves, and I'm watching some of these best companies through this time navigate through this. And I think leadership is going to be tested in enormously interesting ways. >> I'll say. I mean, Snowflake is really interesting because they... 67% growth, which is, I mean, that's best in class for a company that's $2 billion. And, but their guide was still, you know, pretty aggressive. You know, so it's like, do you, you know, when it when it's good times you go, "hey, we can we can guide conservatively and know we can beat it." But when you're not certain, you can't dial down too far 'cause your investors start to bail on you. It's a really tricky- >> But Dave, I think listen, at the end of the day, I mean every CEO should not be worried about the short term up and down in the stock price. You're building a long-term multi-billion dollar company. In the case of Frank, he has, I think I shot to a $10 billion, you know, analytics data warehousing data management company on the back of that platform, because he's eyeing the market that, not just Teradata occupies today, but now Oracle occupies or other databases, right? So his tam as it grows bigger, you're going to have some of these things, but that market's big. I think same with Palo Alto. I mean Datadog's another company, 75% growth. >> Yeah. >> At 20% margins, like almost rule of 95. >> Amazing. >> When they're going after, not just the observability market, they're eating up the sim market, security analytics, the APM market. So I think, you know, that's, you look at these case studies of companies who are going from point product to platforms and are steadily able to grow into new tams. You know, to me that's very inspiring. >> I get it. >> Sanjay: That's what I seek to do at our com. >> I get that it's a marathon, but you know, when you're at VMware, weren't you looking at the stock price every day just out of curiosity? I mean listen, you weren't micromanaging it. >> You do, but at the end of the day, and you certainly look at the days of earnings and so on so forth. >> Yeah. >> Because you want to create shareholder value. >> Yeah. >> I'm not saying that you should not but I think in obsession with that, you know, in a short term, >> Going to kill ya. >> Makes you, you know, sort of myopically focused on what may not be the right thing in the long term. Now in the long arc of time, if you're not creating shareholder value... Look at what happened to Steve Bomber. You needed Satya to come in to change things and he's created a lot of value. >> Dave: Yeah, big time. >> But I think in the short term, my comments were really on the quarter to quarter, but over a four a 12 quarter, if companies are growing and creating profitable growth, they're going to get the valuation they deserve. >> Dave: Yeah. >> Do you the... I want to ask you about something Arvind Krishna said in the previous IBM earnings call, that IT is deflationary and therefore it is resistant to the macroeconomic headwinds. So IT spending should actually thrive in a deflation, in a adverse economic climate. Do you think that's true? >> Not all forms of IT. I pay very close attention to surveys from, whether it's the industry analysts or the Morgan Stanleys, or Goldman Sachs. The financial analysts. And I think there's a gluc in certain sectors that will get pulled back. Traditional view is when the economies are growing people spend on the top line, front office stuff, sales, marketing. If you go and look at just the cloud 100 companies, which are the hottest private companies, and maybe with the public market companies, there's way too many companies focused on sales and marketing. Way too many. I think during a downsizing and recession, that's going to probably shrink some, because they were all built for the 2009 to 2021 era, where it was all about the top line. Okay, maybe there's now a proposition for companies who are focused on cost optimization, supply chain visibility. Security's been intangible, that I think is going to continue to an investment. So I tell, listen, if you are a tech investor or if you're an operator, pay attention to CIO priorities. And right now, in our business at Cohesity, part of the reason we've embraced things like ransomware protection, there is a big focus on security. And you know, by intelligently being a management and a security company around data, I do believe we'll continue to be extremely relevant to CIO budgets. There's a ransomware, 20 ransomware attempts every second. So things of that kind make you relevant in a bank. You have to stay relevant to a buying pattern or else you lose momentum. >> But I think what's happening now is actually IT spending's pretty good. I mean, I track this stuff pretty closely. It's just that expectations were so high and now you're seeing earnings estimates come down and so, okay, and then you, yeah, you've got the, you know the inflationary factors and your discounted cash flows but the market's actually pretty good. >> Yeah. >> You know, relative to other downturns that if this is not a... We're not actually not in a downturn. >> Yeah. >> Not yet anyway. It may be. >> There's a valuation there. >> You have to prepare. >> Not sales. >> Yeah, that's right. >> When I was on CNBC, I said "listen, it's a little bit like that story of Joseph. Seven years of feast, seven years of famine." You have to prepare for potentially your worst. And if it's not the worst, you're in good shape. So will it be a recession 2023? Maybe. You know, high interest rates, inflation, war in Russia, Ukraine, maybe things do get bad. But if you belt tightening, if you're focused in operational excellence, if it's not a recession, you're pleasantly surprised. If it is one, you're prepared for it. >> All right. I'm going to put you in the spot and ask you for predictions. Expert analysis on the World Cup. What do you think? Give us the breakdown. (group laughs) >> As my... I wish India was in the World Cup, but you can't get enough Indians at all to play soccer well enough, but we're not, >> You play cricket, though. >> I'm a US man first. I would love to see one of Brazil, or Argentina. And as a Messi person, I don't know if you'll get that, but it would be really special for Messi to lead, to end his career like Maradonna winning a World Cup. I don't know if that'll happen. I'm probably going to go one of the Latin American countries, if the US doesn't make it far enough. But first loyalty to the US team, and then after one of the Latin American countries. >> And you think one of the Latin American countries is best bet to win or? >> I don't know. It's hard to tell. They're all... What happens now at this stage >> So close, right? >> is anybody could win. >> Yeah. You just have lots of shots of gold. I'm a big soccer fan. It could, I mean, I don't know if the US is favored to win, but if they get far enough, you get to the finals, anybody could win. >> I think they get Netherlands next, right? >> That's tough. >> Really tough. >> But... The European teams are good too, but I would like to see US go far enough, and then I'd like to see Latin America with team one of Argentina, or Brazil. That's my prediction. >> I know you're a big Cricket fan. Are you able to follow Cricket the way you like? >> At god unearthly times the night because they're in Australia, right? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> I watched the T-20 World Cup, select games of it. Yeah, you know, I'm not rapidly following every single game but the World Cup games, I catch you. >> Yeah, it's good. >> It's good. I mean, I love every sport. American football, soccer. >> That's great. >> You get into basketball now, I mean, I hope the Warriors come back strong. Hey, how about the Warriors Celtics? What do we think? We do it again? >> Well- >> This year. >> I'll tell you what- >> As a Boston Celtics- >> I would love that. I actually still, I have to pay off some folks from Palo Alto office with some bets still. We are seeing unprecedented NBA performance this year. >> Yeah. >> It's amazing. You look at the stats, it's like nothing. I know it's early. Like nothing we've ever seen before. So it's exciting. >> Well, always a pleasure talking to you guys. >> Great to have you on. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you. Love the expert analysis. >> Sanjay Poonen. Dave Vellante. Keep it right there. re:Invent 2022, day four. We're winding up in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (lighthearted soft music)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to Vegas baby. This is the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 this is day three. John Walls is my cohost Jay. Welcome back to Vegas baby Vegas. It's Vegas baby. And you know I'm looking out back. So this is not like a day three crowd. It's really not. Now you can kind of yell out in the hallway and your echo bounce around, but there are a lot of people still here, a lot of business still being done. There really are. There's no shortage of that. And because we're live on the queue, what happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas. So we're happy to welcome a couple of new guests to the queue that are going to share all these great things about security and teach us to, to my left is Robbie's sort of Austin VP of solutions and platform marketing from forest points and from AWS. >>Roe had gooped up global segment leader insecurity. Gentlemen, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us. So we can't go to any event without talking about security. It's, it's one of those topics that I think every generation understand when there are big breaches like Capitol one that happened recently or Facebook, even the older generations who are still in the workforce today, they understand it to some degree. The security is so complex. And, and Ravi, one of the things I know that's most challenging about security, especially cyber, is humans are 90 plus percent of the problem. It's human errors, right? Talk to us about Forcepoint. I love the tagline, human centric cybersecurity. How can you help us humans fix all of the errors that we're causing? Or can you, Doug, good question. It's, it's the cat and mouse game, right? Uh, so Forcepoint is a purpose belt, a user and data protection company, right? >>And we're focused on the digital identities and the behavior of their cyber behavior to be able to understand that and then protect, um, data and the users as well. So that's what we refer to as human centric cybersecurity. And how long have you guys been working on this? Oh, we've been working on this for decades. It's the problem with traditional security was all infrastructure centric, guns, guards and Gates and magic will happen. And then turns out those bad actors figure out the guns, guards and Gates and always looking to compromise users and their access. And so independent of whether the attack is external or internal, it's that compromise that that's the focus. And so when you focus on the compromise, that's where we focused on in terms of how to help companies with security. So, so what, what does that connection between behavior in between operations? >>I mean, so what are you looking for in terms of what that user's doing correctly or incorrectly? I mean, what kind of markers do you have? What kind of signs do you get? And in what corrective measures can you put into the process that automatically will correct or at least address that? Yeah, so let me take an example. Right? Um, so if I'm a developer, I'm building using Amazon's awesome services, putting a lot of content in there. I use get hub as a storage. I put a lot of information in there and I'm doing that quickly to get my project done. Right. As I do that and I launched that application, then security comes along after after fact and says, well, let's put security design a day and then how do we protect the data? That model is breaking. Why is it breaking? Because companies are saying users are no longer coming just from the enterprise. >>They're working from home, they're working from the Starbucks and they're accessing the same data and bad actors follow that too. What do they do? They follow the users and go, I can then pretend to be Ravi and get access to the data. And that's how you see a lot of the breaches. So what we're looking at is the behavior of Ravi as an employee. I engage with my mobile device, with my laptop, I get access. I work from eight to five, I'm in Austin most of the times. So the markers are user related, device related, and also context. It's like, why am I logging in from Austin? And at the same time also seeing a login from China that doesn't look right. So that's, that's an example of a behavior. So what's the red flag that goes up there? And you mentioned China, that's an extreme example, but I'm sure there are some more subtle or some not quite as obvious. >>I mean, what exactly is that, that prophylactic measure that that comes in that's automated that says, wait a minute, I don't think this is Ravi, although it's in Denver or it's on this server, whatever month. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So again, the context is built out of three things, users, devices and the environment. Right? By triangulating on those three things, you can actually capture very subtle needle in the haystack of being able to say, look, this is Robbie's behavior. So we're going to let him access get hub. We're going to let him access all the resources on Amazon, but as soon as we see deviations from that, we're going to throw a yellow flag. We're going to ask them to login with a multifactor authentication or some, some other additional form of engaging. Then if we still see more deviations, then we say the word, I'm actually blocked that and I can safely block it because I know that this is not Ravi anymore. Right. And that's how we've seen a lot of organizations use behavior at the heart of their security posture. >>So Rohit, before we went live, you, you told John and me that you've been in security for a thousand years. So one of the biggest challenges though besides people is, is being reactive. And when companies have to be reactive to security events, whether they're ostensible or, or more subtle like John talked about, that can potentially be catastrophic. Can you just talk to us a little bit about some of the historical changes say in the last few years that you've seen where companies, there's no time to go from react to be reactive. How are companies leveraging technologies like Forcepoint and AWS to go from reactive to predictive to eventually prescriptive? >>Yes, that's a good question. And firstly, it's a dozen years, not a thousand years, but, uh, it feels like that sometimes. Uh, so what we have found is that the cloud actually has helped companies become more secure because security is about visibility and control. And what the cloud does is provide better visibility than was available before because you have things like cloud trail that are showing any event that is happening in the system that you could actually use to figure out what happened before and then you can learn from that quickly and take action to fix it. So that's where the control part comes in. Over time you will get better at understanding the signals, as Robbie was saying, and you can be more predictive or you can take action much faster. And even if you don't completely solve the problem right away, you are able to react much faster. So the damages is minimal. Right? And so we've seen that change happened over the years. Companies are using automation that the cloud brings and coupled with the visibility to really gain control back. >>You know, there, there's um, I don't know if you'd call it a natural tension, but there's certainly some friction. Speed. Security, right? I want to go, go, go, go, go. I want to stop, stop, stop. So I've stopped. Right? So I mean our, our, our, our, they to take years, you know, cat and mouse are the, are they natural enemies or friction or can they be complimentary now in such a way because of what you are developing are the tools that we do have at our disposal now, can you address both? It's very, very interesting. The, when you started with an infrastructure centric security, when you put guns, guards and Gates, they were that tension, right? But when you start to change the conversation about, look, we're not about stopping progress, we want the developers to use the data, but we want them to do use it securely, right? And as you start to think about that approach, then security can actually be an enabler for digital transformation. Just as Amazon is talking today or throughout the last three days about how you've lots of services and enabling digital transformation. That's really our focus too, is how to enable that securely. How to enable users to be able to touch the data wherever it is, but secure that along the value chain >>is security. Is this question for both of you and Rohit? Let's start with you. Where is security and terms of the conversation as Andy Jassy talked about on Tuesday when he was talking about business, true business transformation gotta start at the top, you to have that senior exec level initiative sponsorship that's pushed down into the organization is security at that. I imagine it is at that senior level. Talk to us about how you've seen that evolve and how it is really a cornerstone to digital transformation. >>Yeah. I think security used to be an afterthought. The developers were not concerned about it. They don't teach security or at least they didn't teach security in college and computer science courses. It was not even that important. It's gone from that to an hour board level and perhaps even a regulatory level of discussion where it is being addressed by much higher authorities then even the board of the company. Right. So yes, it has definitely gone from a backroom operation that people didn't care about to something that is really very important and as Ravi said, you can move fast and stay secure. You almost have no choice because you have to move fast, right? Figuring out how to be secure in that environment and you don't do not want to end up in the news ultimately. And so that is why it is a conversation that is elevated. Now to the board level. >>Do you see that, speaking of ending up in the news, and there's a couple of folks whose boobs are here that have been in the news recently for significant breaches, human caused, is that when that becomes a sensational story, is that a facilitator of more conversations of customers coming? And maybe, maybe Ravi, I'll start with you. Customers coming to Forcepoint going, gosh, you know what, here's another example of a breach that affected millions and millions. We need to get our hands around this in a better way so that we can really use that data for competitive advantage to those, those news breaking stories, good for business. >>So we get invited to a lot of board level conversations. Our leaders get invited to speak to boards and the two common questions they get asked is, am I going to be the next target? Right? And then most importantly, the second one is how am I doing against my peer group? Right? And so when it comes to that conversation, as you as rotors, there's describing it, organizations are saying, look, I've gotta be able to run my business and I need to run it securely in order to do that. If I can answer those two questions, I'm not going to worry about the threats and attacks and what happened to in the news. I'm more focused on how can I get this new project deployed, security connected? How do I do this new mobile application? Get that and to protect the data, right? So that's the conversation that boards want to know. >>So they do want the reference point, for sure. Can we, you know, at least it's talk about the headlines and we all see that almost to the point that we're kind of numb to it, right? We're almost desensitized. Another hack, another breach or whatever. So we've, in a way, our mindset is, or Facebook that it happens. Can we get to the different, flip that paradigm to where we almost take for granted that it won't happen, that that are our guide. Our guards are that good. I mean, what does it take to get to that point to where we don't accept preachers and we look at them as an anomaly rather than for kind of the cost of doing business. I mean that's, that's been the central focus for us with the human centric cybersecurity. We're saying if you take, uh, any breach and their story reads, breach happened and then you get all the other what they did after effect, right? >>And then they'd tell you a story that happened that the bad actor or the compromise was happened over some period of time, whether it was months to detecting bad things. Ex-post is hard. But what we are focused on when you look at human centric security as we're saying, the time to steal data is in minutes, but the indicators that it takes to steal that data has been building up. So we're saying if we can use behavior to show that buildup, then we could block it before a breach happens. So it's kind of like a slow drip in your ceiling, right? You see it there, go and go ahead. Don't wait for the ceiling to collapse. Right? You've got a ring that's growing there, so do something about it. Exactly how to identify it. >>Last question as we look at, one of the other things that Andy showed on Tuesday is that 97% of it spend is still on prem. We know that there's a lot of hybrid cloud out there in those types of environments which are becoming more and more the norm. How do you help customers manage all of that data regardless of what's on from what's in the cloud and how things are moving in a secure way. >>And that's where for us the partnership is critical and we see the partnership with Amazon to be very strategic in the fact that Amazon's building up awesome set of foundational controls. That's great. We'll let the developers use that, right? And now as enterprises connect with their data, data is on prem and in the cloud and everywhere in between. How do you then implement security that's closest to where the data sits? So we were leverage a lot of the security controls that Amazon provides. And in addition to that, we then offer more of a unified policy control to provide that control wherever the data sits, whether it's on the end point in line or in the cloud. >>Exciting stuff. Well guys, thank you for joining John and me on the program, giving us more information on, on cybersecurity and some of the opportunities that businesses have to actually use that as an advantage. We appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you for the time for John Walls. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Q for Vegas. Re-invent 19 thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> [Announcer] Live, from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> 'Kay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Palo Alto, theCUBE studios, our new 4,500 square foot studio. We just moved in in January. We're covering Mobile World Congress for two days, 8 a.m. to six, every day today, Monday the 27th, and Tuesday, the 28th. That's Pacific Standard Time, of course. Barcelona's ending their day, people are at their dinners right now going to the after hour parties. Really getting into the evening festivities, the business development, and we're going to break down all the news with that. And we have Tom Joyce here for reaction. But first, my talking point for this segment. Tom, I want to get your reaction to this, is Mobile World Congress is going through a massive change as a show. CES became an automotive show, you saw that show. Mobile World Congress used to be a Telco show, device show. Now you're seeing Internet of Things, and Internet things and people, as Peter Burris from Wikibon pointed out on our opening today, where people are now the device, the phone, and the watches and the wearables, and the things are sensors, cars, cities, towns, homes, devices. Now you have this new connected Internet that goes to an extreme edge to wherever there's a digital signal and connection, powered by 5G. 5G is the big story at Mobile World Congress, certainly the glam is the devices, but those devices becoming more powerful with chips from Intel and Qualcomm and others. And as those devices become more powerful, the connected device, thing, or people, become much more powerful equation. The data behind it is a tsunami, and this, to me, is a step up in a game changing wealth creation, a value creation opportunity for the society or around the world, and for companies. So the question is, can this be the kind of change significantly impacting the world similar to the iPhone in 2007 when Steve Jobs announced the iPhone it changed the entire mobile landscape, and even Blackberry's making a comeback, and they were decimated by the iPhone. Can this 5G, this Internet of Things, Internet of Things of people, change the game, and what will happen? We believe it'll be massive. Tom, your reaction to this new change? >> Well, you know, I think you hit on a lot of it. I come at it from a different perspective, right? I spent 30 years in infrastructure, systems and software. So, when you're coming at it from that side, and you see this mobile world exploding, and Internet of Things starting to take off, and changes in terms of how the connectivity at the edge works, and this massive evolution, you can think about it from one of two ways. On one level, you can be terrified, you know? Cause it's all going away, (John laughs) all the stuff we built is going away. And, on the other hand, it creates a tremendous number of new opportunities. And I think we're only really just starting to see the creativity come out of the enterprise side in terms of not adapting to this change in mobile, but actually starting to invent things that will enable it and make Internet of Things possible. And, you know, new approaches to how silicon should be developed for those applications. New applications altogether. You know, I spent a lot of time recently looking at a number of different storage companies, and, you know, something fundamentally needs to change there in order for that technology to adapt, and guess what? It's now starting to really really come forward, and so, yeah, I think that what we're starting to see is the big engines, the big historical engines of innovation, starting to catch up to this big trend, and it's only the very beginning. >> We have Tom Joyce, who's an industry executive in the infrastructure area. Worked at EMC back in the early days, and then HPE and a variety of other companies. Tom, you're an expert in infrastructure, and this is what's interesting to me, as a technical person. You have the glam and the flair of mobile, the devices and the awesome screen capabilities, the size of the devices, the role of the tablet's now changing where it's going to become an entertainment device in home, and a companion to mobile. That's what people see. They see the virtual reality. They see the augmented reality. The coolness of some of this awesome software that needs all that 5G bandwidth. But, there's an under the hood kind of engine, on the infrastructure side that's going through a transformation. It's called network transformation because you have networks that move the data around. You have the compute power, the cloud, that computes on things. The data, and the storage that (laughs) stores it all. It's getting better on the device side, the handset, but also the stuff going on in the cloud. So I got to get your take. Why is now the time for the key network transformation? What are the key things happening now that really make this concept of network transformation so compelling? >> Well, you know, again, I'll take it from kind of a non-technical perspective, looking at it from an infrastructure guy standpoint, alright? What we've been looking at is, in the transformation of the compute platform, from inside your data center to the cloud, you know, all the things we've known kind of changing and going away. But, the parts the cloud hasn't really touched yet, or really transformed yet, are the piece between the cloud itself and that end user, or that remote office. You know, if you've got offices in far off lands, or, you know, small cities, getting the connectivity to be able to enable that new infrastructure platform is a challenge. And so, for a couple of years, there's been a lot of work done in network virtualization, and network functions virtualization, for ways to kind of break the stranglehold that a lot of these old proprietary technologies have had on that problem. And now we're starting to see new approaches to how you do WAN management across those, especially long distances. And I think that, especially with the growth in capacity demand from things like 5G, from things like Internet of Things, from the many different kinds of mobile devices we now have, it creates a forcing function on IT managers, and especially on telcos to say "geez, you know, we can't keep doing it with T1s. We can't wait 90 days to put in a T1 every time we open up a new building. We can't, you know, use the same old hardware because the cost model needs to change." And so there are, you know, quite a few companies, and by my count about a dozen of em that are looking at completely virtualized software ways to break that down. Do it flexibly, nine minutes instead of 90 days, a lot more performance. And so, you know, it's the demand is creating the opportunity but now you're starting to see innovators adapt and deliver new stuff to solve this problem. >> Tom, for the folks watching, I'll share some props for you. You've obviously been an executive in the infrastructure, but also at HPE prior to your role, and after your role they did some other things. But at HPE you were doing some mergers and acquisitions with Meg Whitman so you have a view of looking at the entrepreneurial landscape. So kind of, with that kind of focus, and also the infrastructure knowledge, what is some of the opportunities that the service providers in these telcos have? Because the network transformation that's happening with 5G and the software can give them a business model opportunity now that they have to seize on. This is the time. It seems like now the acceleration for those guys, and you can also apply it to say the enterprises as well, but there are opportunities out there. What are those opportunities for these service providers? >> Well, you know, I think if you're an established business there's a trade off between the bird in the hand and something's that disruptive but I might have to do anyway? And so I think some of these opportunities actually could potentially degrade profitability in the short term and that's, I think, where these guys kind of figure out "do I hold onto the old vine, or do I swing to the new vine?" And, it's a tough set of problems, but I think there is clearly opportunity to go completely software based, virtualize, around how you managed Wide Area Networking traffic. And I think some customers are starting to kind of force the telco providers to do that, by-- >> Andy Roe was the one who coined the term "eat your own before the competition does", but that's the dilemma, the innovative dilemmas that these telcos have and the service providers. If they don't reinvent the future, and hold onto the past-- >> They'll get disrupted. >> [John] They'll be extincted. >> Yeah. >> [John] They'll be extinct. So that's interesting. So I got to get your take. With that premise, it's pretty obvious what's happening. >> Yeah. >> Faster networks are happening. You want low latency, faster bandwidth on wireless, that's happening. >> Yeah. >> What does this mean for the new kind of networks? Because that seems to be a theme coming out of Mobile World Congress on day one, that's going to probably be big tomorrow on the news, is this network transformation. This new kind of network, where you have to have fast storage, you got to have low latency data flying around. >> Yeah, I think there are many different parts of it, and you could talk all afternoon about it. But on that one part we were just talking about, and I don't know this company very deeply, but a company like Viptela, right? Viptela is going up against those big T1 sales models and saying "we're going to do it a different way". And it's about speed, it's about performance, about capacity, latency, cost. It's also about flexibility. Like, what if I could kind of totally re-engineer how everything's wired up right now on Tuesday, and do it differently on Wednesday? You know, what if I could set up entirely new business models on the fly as opposed to having to plan it months and months in advance? In that, the word agility is overused, but that's what that is. And so, I think as you move more and more into software for every one of these functions in the network, it brings with it this benefit of agility. And I think that's under-measured in terms of how people value that. You know, the velocity being able to change your business it's a lot more than what the gear cost, what the depreciation it was, you know, what the pipe cost. And so, I think as folks make those moves, and they can go faster and do more than their competition, it's a game changer. You know there's a big discussion about the, you mentioned, the compute layer, and the storage layer. The kinds of storage systems you need if you're going to deploy services as a service provider. Whether it's a telco, or a small VAR that's acting like a service provider. If you're going to compete there, you need stuff that's a lot more flexible, again, a lot more agile, than the traditional storage systems. Now, I think, the notion of software defined storage has been around for a while. Figuring out how you make money at that? That's still a work in progress. But, as folks move towards more of a service model for their business it's not going to look like-- >> So it sounds like what you're saying is, the first wave of that is, from a table stakes standpoint is, speed and scale are kind of the first foundational thing that the storage guys have to get going. >> Yeah, I think, and storage is still the same. It has to be cost per, you know, cost per megabyte, gigabyte, terabyte. You need to have low latency, high I/O. Those are like the three things. And then the additional things are the services. Is it resilient? Now we're at a point where I think agility matters more than ever, right? If I can reconfigure everything and build a new service and I can do it today, versus plan for months, the benefit and the dollars around that are game changing. And the people they're game changing for are the service providers. >> Tom, I want to ask you a question from the mind of the average consumer out there, and we all have the relatives ask "hey, what's going on in your tech business?" Break it down for us. When people say "why can't my phone just go faster? Why can't I have better bandwidth?" They might not understand the complexities of what it takes to make all this stuff happen. What's holding back the acceleration in your mind? Is it the technology? Is it the personnel? Is there any kind of area out there that once that straw breaks the camel's back, what is that straw that breaks the camel's back to accelerate this production of great tech? >> Yeah, I mean look, I'm actually one of those grandparents that's asking how come it's not going faster, (John laughing) so I may not have the complete answer, but I'm that frustrated person. I will say that, you know, we're in an interesting period of time in terms of how investments get made in new technology. And if you kind of, somebody very smart said to me the other day "try to think of the pure innovations that came out of large, established companies in the last 10 years". And I've worked for a couple of em, right? But, the pure ground up innovations that became big, and you can't come up with a very long list right? It's been really driven through the venture community, certainly as Silicon Valley, you know, it's been an engine for decades now. But that's where it comes from. And we've kind of been in a limbo cycle, where folks have invested a lot of money in some areas that haven't paid off. So, I think we're in a little bit of a gap, where there's a lot of money going into obvious spaces. One of those obvious spaces is security. You know, before that it was all these apps that we use for social. But there hasn't been enough engineering and core hard tech silicon to drive these new apps. There hasn't been enough hard engineering and building entirely new, you know, storage platforms in software that scale at service provider levels, cause that's going to cost a lot of money. So I think we're starting to see the beginnings of that, but it takes time to play it all out. >> It's interesting the whole digital life thing is coming into the transformation, and Reuve Cohen, who was on earlier, said "Snapchat IPO is the big story", but if you look at it like say Snapchat, what they're doing, they're both a media company and a platform with the fake news from the Facebook platform in the previous election. You're seeing these platforms delivering the kind of value that they weren't really intending, the unintended consequences for these platforms is that they become other things too in digital. Like a media company when they weren't really trying to be that, and media comes in trying to be platforms. So, there seems to be a platform war going on around who is going to control the platforms. And the question that I always ask is, okay how does this work in a multi-company environment where composability is much more the new development philosophy than owning a stack, owning technology? >> Well, I agree with ya, and I think that, again, if you look at it from the standpoint of a customer that's going to buy a lot of their services from the cloud and a lot of their services from other service providers, you have to hit the price points and the performance and the reliability. After that, it's how fast can you turn me on? How fast can you change? It's back to that software based reconfiguration on the fly. If you can then bring to bear the ability to do that with different qualities of service, and more automated control of those changes, that's gold right? But I don't think we have seen that actually implemented yet at scale, in ways that people can consume. So, again, I think you're seeing a wave of investment by the VC folks in a number of areas, one of em is new kinds of silicon, new kinds of next generation flash technologies, and things like that. I think you're seeing service provider scale storage technologies starting to emerge. You're starting to see fundamental changes in how Wide Area Networks are managed, all in software, right? So, I think you play that through in the next year or two, the demand from mobile usage, but especially from Internet of Things, and its related demand for data is going to create a new market, a new market opportunities, and who will win? I don't know, but there's a lot of smart investors making bets there. >> So certainly you see a lot of the old guard out there, Intel, for instance, sponsored this program, gave us the ability to do the programming thanks to Intel and also SAP contributed a little bit. But you got HPE out there, you see IBM, all these guys are out there, these traditional suppliers. What's the one thing that you can point to that in this new era of supplying technology to the new guard of winners, whether they're telcos, or providers, or enterprises. The game certainly changed with the cloud. What's the blind spot for some of these guys? And where should they be looking for MNA activity-- >> [Tom] Yeah. >> [John] If you're the CEO of a big company, and you "hey I got to pivot, I got to fill my product lines", where's the order of operations from a focus standpoint? >> Okay, well you take a couple of those companies, and I'd say that I've both observed and been guilty of some of (John laughing) what's not working now, right? And the instinct, if you're in one of those places, is to say "look, we've got all this technology. We've got servers, storage, networking. What if we just bundle up what we've got and point it at this new set of applications?" And I think you can make some ground up there, you can do some stuff, but at the end of the day the new requirements require new technology. And I think the larger companies haven't been successful at investing in new stuff in their own, like memristor, or some of these new technologies folks have talked about, the machine. They get announced, they come, they go, why? Because they're expensive, they're really hard. >> [John] It takes real R&D. >> It takes years. Yeah, years of real R&D. And it's difficult in the economic environment that we're in to sustain that. So the reality is, I think there needs to be a lot more aggressive focus on identifying hard technology that can feed the supply chain for some of those solutions. And, that's what I think-- >> [John] That's what a startup opportunity is too. >> Startup opportunity-- >> Those guys got to fill that void cause they're doing the R&D. >> But the startups that are going to succeed in the future that relate to this problem, they're not the guy building an app. That's not where it is. It's technology that's actually hard. That's why I think you see things like Nvidia, why is that stock so high? Well, they developed unique silicon, that was applicable to a whole bunch more areas than folks realized, right? >> So the difference is, if I hear what you're saying, is there's two approaches. Technology looking for a problem, and then a problem that's solved by technology. Kind of the different kind of mindset. >> Yeah, exactly right. And I think that if you take Tesla as a very well known example. The amount of demand for analytics data is just extraordinary there, right? And that will lead to more requirements to say "no, no, no. I can't use your old stuff. You can bundle up the crap you have. (John laughs) You need to give me something that's tuned for the scale I'm talking about now and next." And I think that we're starting to see the venture community, and certainly my travels around the Valley here over the last couple of months, saying "we're probably going to have to get in earlier, and we're probably going to have to invest more and longer. Because the payoff's there, but these problems are big and require real hard technology." >> Well, Tom Joyce, thanks for coming in and sharing the commentary and reaction to Mobile World Congress. Real quick, what are you up to these days? I know you're looking at a bunch of CEO opportunities. You've been talking to a lot of VC firms in the Valley. What are you poking at? What's getting your attention these days? >> Well, you know, part of what I was just talking about is exciting, you know? There's a bunch of new things out there. There's some young people that are investing in the next wave of infrastructure, and so I'm looking at some of those things. And, you know, I may do a CEO thing. I've had a few opportunities like that, and I may focus more on the business development side and the investing side cause I've got a lot of experience-- >> But you're looking for technology plays? >> Yeah. >> Not in the, say a me too, kind of thing-- >> No I want to do something fun and big and new. (John laughing) You know, something that has potential for super growth, and so there are a lot of those here now. So it's a-- >> Well I think you made a good observation, and I think this applies to Mobile World Congress. One is it's kind of turning into an app show on one level because apps are the top of the stack. That's where the action is, whether it's an IoT app or car or something. But then there's the hard problems under the hood. >> I think that's right. And I think that's where a lot of the money's going to be. >> Yeah, and Intel's certainly done a great job. We're on the ground with Intel. We're going to have some more call-ins to analysts, and our reports on the ground at Mobile World Congress. Stay with us here at theCUBE, in Palo Alto live, in studio coverage of Mobile World Congress. We're going to be doing call-ins, folks hitting the parties, certainly hope they're a little bit looser from a couple cocktails. And Tapas went later in the night. Hopefully he had them calling in and get all the dirt, and all the stories. And from Mobile World Congress, we'll be right back with more after this short break. Thanks to Tom Joyce for coming, appreciate it. >> [Tom] Thank you too. >> Taking the time. We'll be back. (upbeat music) (elated music)