>>Welcome to the cubes coverage of C CFS, co con EU cloud native con in Valencia Spain, I'm John furrier. This is a preview interview with the co-chairs versus we have Jasmine James senior engineering manager and of developer experience and Coon cloud native con EU co-chair and RI ricotta Rocher computing engineer at CERN and Coon co-chair as well at EU. Great to have you both on great to see you, both of you, >>Hey, to be here, >>Us >>Keep alumni. So, you know, Coon just continues to roll and get bigger and bigger, um, and watching all the end user action watching the corporations enterprises come in and just all the open source projects being green litted and just all the developer onboarding has been amazing. So it should be a great EU and Vale span, great venue. A lot of people I I'm talking to are very excited, so let's get into it as co-chairs take us through kind of the upcoming schedule at a very high level. Then I wanna dig into, uh, some of the new insights into selection and program programming that you guys had to go through. I know every year it's hard. So let's start with the overall upcoming schedule for COCOM. >>Yeah. So I'll dive into that. So the schedule is represents a, quite a diverse set of topics. I would say, um, I personally am a fan of those, you know, more personal talks from an end user perspective. There's also like a lot of the representation from a community perspective and how folks can get involved. Um, as most of, you know, like our tracks, the types of tracks has evolved over the year as well. So we now have a community track student track. So it's gonna be very exciting to hear content within those tracks, um, through in Valencia. So a very exciting schedule. Um, yeah. >>And just real quick for the folks watching it's virtual and physical it's hybrid event May 4th through seventh Ricardo, what's your take on the schedule? Uh, how do you see it breaking down from a high level standpoint? >>Yeah, so, um, I'm pretty excited. Um, I think the, the fact that this hybrid will help keep, um, build on the experiences we had, uh, during the pandemic times to, to give a better experience for people not making, uh, it to Valencia. I'm pretty excited also about the number of co-located events. So the two days before the conference will include, uh, um, a large number of co-located events, focusing on security S uh, and some new stuff for like batch and HPC workloads that I'm pretty close to as well. Uh, and then some, some really good consolidation in some tracks like this value, which I think will be quite, quite interesting as well. >>So you mentioned this is gonna be like watch parties, people gonna be creating kind of satellite events. Is that what you're referring to, uh, in terms of the physical space gonna be an event, obviously, um, what's going on around, outside the event, either online or as part of the program. >>So, yeah, uh, the, the, all the sessions, uh, from, from the collocated events will be available virtually as well. I don't know if people will actually be setting up parties everywhere. <laugh>, I'm sure some people will. Yeah, >>There'll definitely be >>Some. And then for, for, for the conference itself, there will be dedicated rooms where for the virtual talks, uh, people can just join in and sit for a while and watch the virtual talks and then go back to the in person, ones, uh, Monday feel >>Like, yeah, it's always a good event. Uh, Jasmine, we talked about this last time and Ricardo, we always get into the hood as well. What's the vibe on the, the, the, the programming. And honestly, people wanna get, give talks. There's a virtual component, which opens up more aperture, uh, for more community and more actions as, as Ricardo pointed out. What's what was the process this year? Because we're seeing a lot of big trends emerge, obviously securities front and center, um, end user projects are growing data engineering is a new persona. That's just really emerged out of kind of the growth of data and the role of data that it plays and containers. And, and with Kubernetes, just a lot of action. What's the, what was it like this year in, in the selection process for the program? >>Yeah, I mean, the selection process is always lots of fun for the co-chairs. Um, you shout out to program committee, track chairs, you put in a lot of great work and reviewing talks and, and it's just a very, very thorough process. So kudos to all of us who are getting through it for this year. I think that lots of things emerge, but I still feel like security is top of mind for a lot of folks, like security is really has provided. One of the biggest, um, submissions is from, from a quantity perspective, there are tons of talks submitted for security track, and that just kind of speaks for itself, right? This is something that the cloud native community cares about, and there's still a lot of innovation and people wanna voice what they're doing and share it. >>Ricardo, what's your take, we've had a lot of chats around not only some of the hardcore tech, but some of the new waves that are emerging out of the growth, the mature maturization of, of, of the segment. What are you seeing, uh, as terms of like the, the key things that came out during the, the process? >>Yeah, exactly. So I think I would highlight something that Jasmine said, which is the, the emergency emergence of some new tracks as well. Uh, she mentioned the student track, but also we added a research track, which is actually the first time we'll have it. So I'm pretty excited about that. Of course, uh, then for the trends, clearly security observability are, uh, massive tracks for app dev operations, uh, extending Kubernetes had also a lot of submissions. Um, I think the, the main things I saw that, uh, kind of, uh, gain a bit of more consistency is the part for the business value. And, uh, the, the, the fact that people are now looking more at the second step, like managing cloud costs, uh, how to optimize, uh, spot usage and, um, usage of GPUs for machine learning, things like this. So I'm pretty excited. And all these hybrid deployments also is something that keeps coming back. So those were, are the ones that, uh, I, I think came out from, from, from the submission at this time, >>You know, it's interesting as the growth comes in, you see these cool new things happen, but there are also signs of problems that need to be solved to create opportunities. Jasmine, you mentioned security. Um, there's a lot of big trends, scale Ricardo kind of hinting at the scale piece of it, but there's all this now new things, the security posture changes, uh, as you shift left, it's not, it's not, it's not over when you shift left in security in the pipeline in there, but it's, there's audits. There's the size of, uh, the security elements, uh, there's bill of materials. Now, people who got supply chains, these are huge conversations right now in the industry, supply chain security, um, scale data, uh, optimization management, um, notifications, all this is built in, built into a whole nother level. What do you guys see in the key trends in the cloud native ecosystem? >>I, I would say that a lot of the key trends, like you said, it, right, these things are not going anywhere. It's actually coming to a point of maturation. Um, I see more of a focus on how consuming, how, how companies go about consuming these different capabilities. What is that experience like? There's a talk that's gonna be offered, um, as a keynote, um, just about that security and leveraging developers to scale security within your environment. And not only is it a tool problem, it's a mindset thing that you have to be able to get over and partner bridge gaps between teams in order to make this, um, a reality within, within, um, people, within certain organizations. So I see the experience part of it, um, coming a big, a big thing. Um, there's multiple talks about that. >>Ricardo, what's your take on these trends? Cause I look at the, the, the paragraph of the projects now it's like this big used to be like a couple sentences. Now you got more projects coming on, you got the rookies in there and you got the, the veterans, the veteran projects in there. So this speaks volumes to kind of things like notaries new, right? So this is cool. Wait, what does that mean? Okay. Security auditing all this is happening. What are the, what are the big trends that you're excited about that you see that people are gonna be digging in, in, in the pro in, in the event? >>Yeah, I think we, we, we talked about supply chain just before. I think that's, that's a big one. We, we saw a, a keynote back in north America already introducing this, and we saw a lot of consolidation happening now in projects, but also companies supporting this project. Um, I, I'm also quite interested, interested in the evolution of Kubernetes in the sense that it's not just for, what was it, it was traditionally used for like traditional it services and scaling. We start seeing, there will be a very cool keynote from, from deploying, uh, Kubernetes at the edge, but really at the edge with the lower orbit satellites running ES in basically, uh, space. So those things I think are, are, are very cool. Like we start seeing really a lot of consolidation, but also people looking at Kubernetes for, for pretty crazy things, which is very exciting. >>Yeah. You mention, you mentioned space that really takes us to a whole edge, another level of edge thinking, um, you know, I've had many conversations around how do you do break fixing space with some folks in, in the space industry, in, in public sector, software is key in all this. And again, back to open source, open source has to be secured. It has to be, be able to managed effectively. It needs to be optimized into the new workflows space is one of them, you know, you see in, um, 5g edge is huge, uh, with new kind of apps that are being built there. So open source plays a big role in all this. So the, the question I wanna ask you guys is as open source continues to grow and it's growing, we're seeing startups emerge with the playbook of you. You play an open source or you actually create a project and then you get funding behind it because I know at least three or four VCs here in Silicon valley that look at the projects and say, they're looking for deals. And they're saying, keep it open a whole nother level. Can you guys share your insights on how the ecosystem's, uh, evolving with entrepreneurship and, and startups? >>Uh, oh, I guess I'll start. Um, I think that it's such a healthy thing, um, to have such innovation occurring, um, is it's really just, uh, Testament as to how the cloud native community right. Nurtures and cultivates these ideas and provides a great framework for them to develop over time, going from, you know, the sandbox and incubating and graduating and having the support of a solid framework, I think is a lot of the reason why a lot of these projects grow so quickly and reach certain these high levels of adoption. Um, so it's a really fantastic thing to see. I think that, you know, VCC an opportunity and, and, and there's a lot of great innovation that can be, you know, operationalized and scaled, right. Um, and applied to a lot of industries. So I feel it, I feel like it's a very healthy thing. Um, it also creates a lot of opportunities about something I'm passionate about, which is like, you know, people getting involved in open source as a step into the world of tech. Um, so all of these projects coming about provide an opportunity for folks to get involved in a particular component they're interested in and then grow their career in open source. So really great thing, in my opinion. >>And you mentioned the student track, by the way, I kept to point that out. I mean, that's huge. That's gonna be a lot of people who have, you know, in computer science programs or self learning. I mean, the, the, the ability to get up to speed, uh, from a development standpoint, as a coder, um, you can be a rural comp SI or, uh, just a practitioner just coding. I mean, data's everywhere. So data engineering, coding, I mean, Ricardo, this is huge student and then just every sector's opening up. I mean, the color codes on the calendar is, uh, larger than ever before. >>Yeah. I think, yeah, the, the diversity of the usage and the communities is, is something that is really important and it's been growing still. So I, I think this one not stop. Um, I'm pretty, pretty, pretty excited to see also how we'll handle this growth, because as you mentioned, like everything is increasing in numbers, number of projects, number of startups around this project. Uh, so one, one thing that I'm particularly interested on as an end user is to understand also how to help other end users that are jumping in not only the, the developers or, or the people wanting to support these projects, but also the end users. How, how do they choose their sta how, how it's, how, how should they look like for their use cases, much more than just going, uh, from, from the selection, individual projects to understand how they, they work together. So I think this is a challenge for, for the next couple of years. >>Yeah. I mean, roll your own and building blocks, whatever you wanna call it, you're starting to see people, uh, build their own stacks. And that's not a bad thing. It might be a feature, not a bug. >>Yeah. I, I would agree that I think it's something that we have to work on, uh, together to, to, to help, especially people starting in the ecosystem, but also for, for the experienced ones that start looking at other use cases as well. >>Okay. Jasmine, we talked about this last time, you gotta pick a favorite, uh, child in the, in the, in the agenda. Uh, what's your favorite session? Um, and you gotta pick one or three or maybe put handful, um, as you guys look through this year, what's the theme. I mean, people like you can kind of sense what's happening. Uh, when you look at the agenda, obviously observability is in there, all these great stuff's in there, but what's the, what's your favorite, um, uh, project or topic this year that, uh, you're jazzed about >>For me, I I'd say there's such diverse, um, topics that are being presented both on the keynote stage and throughout, um, the various tracks. I will just reference, um, the talk that I, I sort of alluded to earlier about, um, leveraging developers to scale Kubernetes. Um, it's a talk given by red hat on the keynote stage. Um, I just think it, you know, the abstracts will me because it's talks about bridging two different roles together, um, and scaling what we all know to be so important within the cloud native space, security and Kubernetes. So it's something that's very like real for me, um, in, in my current role and previous roles. So I think that that's the one that spoke to me. >>Awesome. Ricardo, what's your favorite, uh, this year? What do you, what do you, uh, if you had to put a little gold star on something that you're interested in, what it would it be? >>I think I hinted on, on it just before, which is, uh, I'm, I'm kind of a space enthusiast. So all, all this idea of running Kubernetes in space, um, makes me very excited. So really looking forward to that one, but as an end user, I'm also very interested in talks. Uh, like the one Mercedes will be doing, which is the transition from a kind of a more traditional company to this, uh, uh, more modern world of, uh, cloud native. And I'm quite interested to hear how, how, what their experience has been has been like in the last few years. >>Well, you guys do a great job. I love chatting with you and I love, uh, CNCF and following from the beginning, we were there when it was, when it was created and watched it grow from an insider perspective, the hyperscalers people who are really kind of eating glass and building scale, you know, SREs. Now you have, you have the SRE concept going kind of global mainstream, seeing enterprises and end users contributing and participating enterprises, getting, connecting those two worlds. Jasmine, as you said, as you look at that, you're starting to see the scale piece become huge. You mentioned it a little bit earlier, Jasmine, the SRE role was specific to servers and cloud. You're kind of seeing that kind of role needed for this kind of cloud native layer. We're seeing it with data engineering. It's not for the faint of heart. It may not be a persona. That's got zillions of people, but it scales. It's like an SRE role. You're seeing that with this kind of monitoring and, and with containers and Kubernetes where it's gotta get easier and scale, how do you guys see that? Do you see that emerging in the community, this, this kind of new scale role and, um, what is it, what is this trend? Or maybe I'm misrepresenting it or maybe I'm sensing it wrong, but what do you guys think about the scale piece? How is that F falling into place? >>Yeah, I, I think that is, um, adoption, like, or there's more saturation of, of cloud native technologies within any environment. Um, most in most companies realize that you have to have that represented right within the role that is managing it. Um, if you wanna have it be reliable. Um, so I think that a lot of roles are adopting those behaviors, right. In order to be able to sustain this within their environment and learning as they start to implement these things. Um, so I see that to be something that just happens. Um, we saw it was like DevOps, right? You know, engineers were starting to adopt, you know, working on the systems versus just, you know, working on software. Um, so it's sort of like encompassing all the things, right. We're, we're seeing a shift in the role and, and the behaviors that are within it in order to maintain these cloud native services. So >>Ricardo, what's your take, we've been seeing engineers get to the front lines more and more. Uh, you guys mentioned business value as one of the tracks and, uh, focus topics this year, it's happening, engineers and developers. They're getting in the front lines cuz as you move up that stack, whether it's a headless system for retail or deploying something in another sector, they gotta be in the front lines. If you're gonna be in doing machine learning and have data, you gotta have domain scales about what the business is. Right? >>Yeah. I, I, I agree very much with what Jasmine said and, and uh, if we add this for, for kind of the business value and the, this opportu opportunistic usage of, uh, all types of resources that can come from basically anywhere these days, I think this is, this is really becoming, um, a real role to, to understand how, how to best, uh, use all of this and uh, to, to make the best of all this available resources. When we start talking about, uh, CPUs, it's already important. If we start talking about GPU's, which are more scar or some sort of specialized accelerators, then, then it becomes really like something that, uh, you, you need people that know where, where to go and fish for those. Cause they, they, you can just build your own data center and, and scale that anymore. So you really need to understand what's out there. >>Applications gotta have the security posture nailed down. They gotta have it. Automation built in. You gotta have the observability, you gotta have the business value. I mean, it sounds like a mature industry developing here finally. It's happening. Good job guys. Thanks for coming on the queue. Really appreciate it. >>Thank you. Thank you for having >>Us. And we'll see the cube here at Koon cloud native con May 16th through the 20th in Vale Spain, the cube will be there. We'll have some online coverage as well. Look for the virtual from CNCF. The cube will bring all the, all the action. I'm John fur, your host, see you in Spain and see you on the 16th.

>>from around the globe. It's >>the cube >>with coverage of >>Kublai khan and >>Cloud Native Con, Europe 2021 virtual brought >>to you by red hat, >>the cloud Native >>Computing foundation and ecosystem partners. Hello, welcome back to the cubes coverage of Kublai khan. Cloud Native Con 2021 part of the CNC. S continuing cube partnership virtual here because we're not in person soon, we'll be out of the pandemic and hopefully in person for the next event. I'm john for your host of the key. We're here with ricardo. Roach computing engineers sir. In CUBA. I'm not great to see you ricardo. Thanks for remote ng in all the way across the world. Thanks for coming in. >>Hello, Pleasure. Happy to be here. >>I saw your talk with Priyanka on linkedin and all around the web. Great stuff as always, you guys do great work over there at cern. Talk about what's going on with you and the two speaking sessions you have it coop gone pretty exciting news and exciting sessions happening here. So take us through the sessions. >>Yeah. So actually the two sessions are kind of uh showing the two types of things we do with kubernetes. We we are doing we have a lot of uh services moving to kubernetes, but the first one is more on the services we have in the house. So certain is known for having a lot of data and requests, requiring a lot of computing capacity to analyze all this data. But actually we have also very large community and we have a lot of users and people interested in the stuff we do. So the first question will actually show how we've been uh migrating our group of infrastructure into the into communities and in this case actually open shift. And uh the challenge there is to to run a very large amount of uh global websites on coordinators. Uh we run more than 1000 websites and there will be a demonstration on how we do all the management of the website um life cycle, including upgrading and deploying new new websites and an operator that was developed for this purpose. And then more on the other side will give with a colleague also talk about machine learning. Machine learning has been a big topic for us. A lot of our workloads are migrating to accelerators and can benefit a lot from machine learning. So we're giving a talk about a new service that we've deployed on top of Cuban areas where we try to manage to uh lifecycle of machine learning workloads from data preparation all the way to serving the bottles, also exploring the communities features and integrating accelerators and a lot of accelerators. >>So one part of the one session, it's a large scale deployment kubernetes key to there and now the machine learning essentially service for other people to use that. Right? Like take me through the first large scale deployment. What's the key innovation there in your opinion? >>Yeah, I think compared to the infrastructure we had before, is this notion that we can develop an operator that will uh, manage resource, in this case a website. And this is uh, something that is not always obvious when people start with kubernetes, it's not just an orchestra, it's really the ap and the capability of managing a huge amount of resources, including custom resources. So the possibility to develop this operator and then uh, manage the lifecycle of uh, something that was defined in the house and that fits our needs. Uh, There are challenges there because we have a large amount of websites and uh, they can be pretty active. Uh, we also have to some scaling issues on the storage that serves these these websites and we'll give some details uh during the talk as well, >>so kubernetes storage, this is all kind of under the covers, making this easier. Um and the machine learning, it plays nicely in that what if you take us for the machine learning use case, what's going on there, wow, what was the discovery, How did you guys put that together? What's the key elements there? >>Right, so the main challenge there has been um that machine learning is is quite popular but it's quite spread as well, so we have multiple groups focusing on this, but there's no obvious way to centralize not only the resource usage and make it more efficient, but also centralize the knowledge of how these procedures can be done. So what we are trying to do is just offer a service to all our users where we help them with infrastructure so that they don't have to focus on that and they could focus just on their workloads and we do everything from exposing the data systems that we have in the house so that they can do access to the data and data preparation and then doing um some iteration using notebooks and then doing distributed training with potentially large amount of gps and that storage and serving up the models and all of this is uh is managed with the coordinates cluster underneath. Uh We had a lot of knowledge of how to handle kubernetes and uh all the features that everyone likes scalability. The reliability out of scaling is very important for this type of workload. This is, this is key. >>Yeah, it's interesting to see how kubernetes is maturing, um congratulations on the projects. Um they're going to probably continue to scale. Remember this reminds me of when I was uh you know coming into the business in the 98 late eighties early nineties with TCP I. P. And the S. I. Model, you saw the standards evolve and get settled in and then boom innovation everywhere. And that took about a year to digest state and scale up. It's happening much faster now with kubernetes I have to ask you um what's your experience with the question that people are looking to get answered? Which is as kubernetes goes, the next generation of the next step? Um People want to integrate. So how is kubernetes exposing a. P. I. S. To say integration points for tools and other things? Can you share your experience and where this is going, what's happening now and where it goes? Because we know there's no debate. People like the kubernetes aspect of it, but now it's integration is the conversation. Can you share your thoughts on that? >>I can try. Uh So it's uh I would say it's a moving target, but I would say the fact that there's such a rich ecosystem around kubernetes with all the cloud, David projects, uh it's it's uh like a real proof that the popularity of the A. P. I. And this is also something that we after we had the first step of uh deploying and understanding kubernetes, we started seeing the potential that it's not reaching only the infrastructure itself, it's reaching all the layers, all the stack that we support in house and premises. And also it's opening up uh doors to easily scale into external resources as as well. So what we've been trying to tell our users is to rely on these integrations as much as possible. So this means like the application lifecycle being managed with things like Helmand getups, but also like the monitoring being managed with Prometheus and once you're happy with your deployment in house we have ways to scale out to external resources including public clouds. And this is really like see I don't know a proof that all these A. P. I. S are not only popular but incredibly useful because there's such a rich ecosystem around it. >>So talk about the role of data in this obviously machine learning pieces something that everyone is interested in as you get infrastructure as code and devops um and def sec ops as everything's shifting left. I love that, love that narrative day to our priests. All this is all proving mature, mature ization. Um data is critical. Right? So now you get real time information, real time data. The expectations for the apps is to integrate the data. What's your view on how this is progressing from your standpoint because machine learning and you mentioned you know acceleration or being part of another system. Cashing has always done that would say databases. Right. So you've got now is databases get slower, caches are getting faster now they're all the ones so it's all changing. So what's your thoughts on this next level data equation into kubernetes? Because you know stateless is cool but now you've got state issues. >>Yeah so uh yeah we we've always had huge needs for for data we store and I I think we are over half an exhibit of data available on the premises but we we kind of have our own storage systems which are external and that's for for like the physics data, the raw data and one particular charity that we had with our workloads until recently is that we we call them embarrassing parallel in the sense that they don't really need uh very tight connectivity between the different workloads. So if it's people always say tens of thousands of jobs to do some analysis, they're actually quite independent, they will produce a lot more data but we can store them independently. Machine learning is is posing a challenge in the sense that this is a training tends to be a lot more interconnected. Um so it can be a benefit from from um systems that we are not so familiar with. So for us it's it's maybe not so much the cashing layers themselves is really understanding how our infrastructure needs to evolve on premises to support this kind of workloads. We had some smallish uh more high performance computing clusters with things like infinite and for low latency. But this is not the bulk of our workloads. This is not what we are experts on these days. This is the transition we are doing towards uh supporting this machine learning workers >>um just as a reference for the folks watching you mentioned embarrassing parallel and that's a quote that you I read on your certain tech blog. So if you go to tech blog dot web dot search dot ch or just search cern tech blog, you'll see the post there um and good stuff there and in there you go, you lay out a bunch of other things too where you start to see the deployment services and customer resource definitions being part of this, is it going to get to the point where automation is a bigger part of the cluster management setting stuff up quicker. Um As you look at some of the innovations you're doing with machines and Coubertin databases and thousands of other point things that you're working on there, I mean I know you've got a lot going on there, it's in the post but um you know, we don't want to have the problem of it's so hard to stand up and manage and this is what people want to make simpler. How do you how do you answer that when people say say we want to make it easier? >>Yeah. So uh for us it's it's really automate everything and up to now it has been automate the deployment in the kubernetes clusters right now we are looking at automating the kubernetes clusters themselves. So there's some really interesting projects, uh So people are used to using things like terra form to manage the deployment of clusters, but there are some projects like cross playing, for example, that allows us to have the clusters themselves being resources within kubernetes. Uh and this is something we are exploring quite a bit. Uh This allows us to also abstract the kubernetes clusters themselves uh as uh as carbonated resources. So this this idea of having a central cluster that will manage a much larger infrastructure. So this is something that we're exploring the getups part is really key for us to, it's something that eases the transition from from from people that are used already to manage large scale systems but are not necessarily experts on core NATO's. Uh they see that there's an easier past there if they if they can be introduced slowly through through the centralized configuration. >>You know, you mentioned cross plane, I had some on earlier, he's awesome dude, great guy and I was smiling because you know I still have you know flashbacks and trigger episodes from the Hadoop world, you know when it was such so promising that technology but it was just so hard to stand up and managed to be like really an expert to do that. And I think you mentioned cross plane, this comes up to the whole operator notion of operating the clusters, right? So you know, this comes back down to provisioning and managing the infrastructure, which is, you know, we all know is key, right? But when you start getting into multi cloud and multiple environments, that's where it becomes challenging. And I think I like what they're doing is that something that's on your mind to around hybrid and multi cloud? Can you share your thoughts on that whole trajectory? >>Absolutely. So I actually gave an internal seminar just last week describing what we've been playing with in this area and I showed some demo of using cross plane to manage clusters on premises but also manage clusters running on public clouds. A. W. S. Uh google cloud in nature and it's really like the goal there. There are many reasons we we want to explore external resources. We are kind of used to this because we have a lot of sites around the world that collaborate with us, but specifically for public clouds. Uh there are some some motivations there. The first one is this idea that we have periodic load spikes. So we knew we have international conferences, the number of analysis and job requests goes up quite a bit, so we need to be able to like scale on demand for short periods instead of over provisioning this uh in house. The second one is again coming back to machine learning this idea of accelerators. We have a lot of Cpus, we have a lot less gPS uh so it would be nice to go on fish uh for those in the public clouds. And then there's also other accelerators that are quite interesting, like CPUs and I p u s that will definitely play a role and we probably, or maybe we will never have among premises, will only be able to to use them externally. So in that, in that respect, actually coming back to your previous question, this idea of storage then becomes quite important. So what we've been playing with is not only managing this external cluster centrally, but also managing the wall infrastructure from a central place. So this means uh, making all the clusters, whatever they are look very, very much the same, including like the monitoring and the aggregation of the monitoring centrally. And then as we talked about storage, this idea of having local storage that that will be allow us to do really quick software distribution but also access to the data, >>what you guys are doing as we say, cool. And relevant projects. I mean you got the large scale deployments and the machine learning to really kind of accelerate which will drive a lot of adoption in terms of automation. And as that kicks in when you got to get the foundational work done, I see that clearly the right trajectory, you know, reminds me ricardo, um you know, again not do a little history lesson here, but you know, back when network protocols were moving from proprietary S N A for IBM deck net for digital back in the history the old days the os I Open Systems Interconnect Standard stack was evolving and you know when TCP I P came around that really opened up this interoperability, right? And SAM and I were talking about this kind of cross cloud connections or inter clouding as lou lou tucker. And I talked that open stack in 2013 about inter networking or interconnections and it's about integration and interoperability. This is like the next gen conversation that kubernetes is having. So as you get to scale up which is happening very fast as you get machine learning which can handle data and enable modern applications really it's connecting networks and connecting systems together. This is a huge architectural innovation direction. Could you share your reaction to that? >>Yeah. So actually we are starting the easy way, I would say we are starting with the workloads that are loosely coupled that we don't necessarily have to have this uh tighten inter connectivity between the different deployments, I would say that this is this is already giving us a lot because our like the bulk of our workloads are this kind of batch, embarrassing parallel, uh and we are also doing like co location when we have large workloads that made this kind of uh close inter connectivity then we kind of co locate them in the same deployment, same clouds in region. Um I think like what you describe of having cross clouds interconnectivity, this will be like a huge topic. It is already, I would say so we started investigating a lot of service measure options to try to learn what we can gain from it. There is clearly a benefit for managing services but there will be definitely also potential to allow us to kind of more easily scale out across regions. There's we've seen this by using the public cloud. Some things that we found is for example, this idea of infinite, infinite capacity which is kind of sometimes uh it feels kind of like that even at the scale we have for Cpus But when you start using accelerators, Yeah, you start negotiating like maybe use multiple regions because there's not enough capacity in a single region and you start having to talk to the cloud providers to negotiate this. And this makes the deployments more complicated of course. So this, this interconnectivity between regions and clouds will be a big thing. >>And, and again, low hanging fruit is just a kind of existing market but has thrown the vision out there mainly to kind of talk about what what we're seeing which is the world's are distributed computer. And if you have the standards, good things happen. Open systems, open innovating in the open really could make a big difference is going to be the difference between real value for the society of global society or are we going to get into the silo world? So I think the choice is the industry and I think, you know, Cern and C and C. F and Lennox Foundation and all the companies that are investing in open really is a key inflection point for us right now. So congratulations. Thanks for coming on the cube. Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, Ricardo, rocha computing engineer cern here in the cube coverage of the CN Cf cube con cloud, native con europe. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. >>It's >>the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of reinvent 2020. I'm your host, John for year here for three weeks with a cube virtual. This year we're not in person. We're doing remote because of the pandemic. A great guest for credit Ghira CEO at I t a unit Banco in Brazil, Great customer of Amazon. Really a good reference point to this transformation story that Andy Jassy has been talking about on stage Ricardo. Great to have you on remotely. Thanks for coming on from Brazil. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me >>love to get down there, land the beach for a while. Just relax. After all the virtual tension from reinvent all the coverage, it's been wild. Anyway, thanks for coming on. I want to get into a CEO. You know, one of the things that Andy Jassy was really leaning forward this year on was the story of you gotta be on the cloud to have agility and the digital transformation which has been talked about for years. People process technology. We've heard that this year. More than ever, it's been quite the acceleration. You're either on the right side of history or not here as a business. Can you share your story of your transformation with Amazon? >>Sure, John. Eso this story months back Thio Actually, a decade ago when we started discussing our digital transformation, Right, eso when we see we are bank, that is almost 100 years old, 96 years old. And we are We're a big one we have on in Brazil 56 million customers. So it's a big company. Uh, and we have pretty much all the businesses over Universal Bank, including insurance here in Brazil. Banks also have insurance on all the rest. So from corporate banking to retail, from credit cards to investments, all sort of products and, uh, we started in technology Eyes early is in the seventies. So 1973 to be exactly when we started our current account system in the mainframes, right? So you can imagine that we have invested a lot in technology over the last almost 50 years, and it's always very well known here in the country for for the use of technology. So we have been pioneers in online transfer In the eighties, we have been pioneers using A T. M's and Internet banking and so on. Uh, but what happened until 2010 is that we were pretty much putting up applications, one top off the other. So we are offering products and services assed fast as we could, looking at the customer, trying to differentiate ourselves from competition. But definitely we were trying to move AST fast as we could, but we were not taking the right care off the platform. In the sense that today we see a lot of transformation in technology happening all the time, right? There's new stuff coming out all the time. We're seeing, hearing reinvent the amount of things that AWS have lounged. So all the time we're seeing new stuff, which is good for the business. So So the speed off this transformation is only getting faster and faster. So in order, Thio be to use all of those features to be able to leverage on new technology. Your platform has to be flexible. You have to be able to adopt those new technologies without losing moment off, offering your products and services, right? So, uh, again a decade ago. We started discussing these and we said We have to invest in technology in a different ways, not only producing solutions in financial services, but definitely we have to take care of the platform and understand how we should evolve the platform in order to you again. Better offer products and services to our customers, which is by by the end of the day. It's why we exist. So so So we started this story and we said Okay, so there's there's three things mainly that we have to take care in order. Thio, go into this journey. First of all, it's about people. We have to have a new mindset, a new culture, Ah, mindset where we have where we empower people in decisions. We have people thinking about the customer all the time and being aggressive on building solutions for them and using technology for building those solutions. Right. So we need more sort of entrepreneur type of people on people who really want to differentiate themselves and provide better services to the customer. In the second pillar, I would say the methodology has to change right. You have to have an agile methodology agile approach, as opposed to a traditional waterfall approach with silos internally in the organization that allows you to be faster as well and to adapt to customer needs faster on and third of all, which is the main subject here. In our conversation, you have to have a flexible platform, as I will explain on Duh. So we decided to pretty much rewrite our application in an architectural where we can be flexible. So pretty much what we have a sort of a monolith where we write cold. We have ridden code in a sequence building huge applications, right, and those huge applications are bottom acts, and they are very hard to maintain and to evolve. What we're doing is in a simple way. Building Micro services were breaking up those applications so we can adapt faster to whatever we see that our customers need or there's any business opportunity. In that sense, Cloud is the perfect platform to host those services, right, because we have again we're able to have the Bob's methodology. You are able to have service reliable engineering aside, reliable engineering were able to have all kinds of things and services that will help us on this journey to be more flexible and faster, right? So that Z that's why we have chosen to go to the cloud. In that sense, we've looked for a partner that waas reliable that waas a leader in the market that was able thio keep up with all the technology that is coming out in the market and offer innovation in the level that we need. And and that's that's the reason why we partner up with AWS for for the next 10 years. So, uh, you happy? Are >>you happy with Amazon? Just while I got you there? Are you happy with their with their response to you and there they're in, uh, interfacing with you guys. Are you happy with them? >>Yes. Yes, John, we have started working with AWS more intensely back in 2018 when our central bank bank allowed us to go to the public cloud. So we started working with them and we learned a lot. Of course, we were very young and immature at the time. In the knowledge of the technology eso We learned a lot in this two years and a half and we have built nice stuff together we have a very important court systems running on W s already on. They have been a good apartment. What they like to say is that our cultures match. We are both customer centric. Sui are both concerned with the success off the partnership. Ah, long term partnership doesn't work. If you're not concerned with the relationship, right, you've got to make sure that both parts will profit from this. Right? So, uh, I think we had we have had a good match, and in terms of technology, we are We are very happy. We have all the infrastructure and services that we need. >>Yeah, when you're building a bridge to the future together, your relationships matter. I would agree. And I think that's a differentiator I wanna just touch upon you mentioned you guys were pioneers going back and the way you tell your story. I was growing up in the seventies and kind of cut my teeth in the eighties and computer science. And remember those days it was very cool. Time went from mainframe client server, but there's a point where you become bloated with the monolithic. You got you stuck with all this. We called spaghetti code, right? It's all over the place, right? So, uh, in all intertwined, then you have that moment of truth. That's something that Andy Jassy was saying on stage. I thought was interesting. And it was almost like a business school lesson of Hey, leaders, you got to get to the truth. When you guys saw the cloud, what was the mindset? Because it sounds like you guys are a pioneering culture. You like Thio be innovative. What was the moment? Take me through the mindset of Hey, we better get busy building or we're gonna get busy dying. What's the What's the take me through that mindset >>at a very good question, John. So we literally started to suffer with our own speed to be really transparent, right? We were seeing the market starting to speed up all these new start ups and tech companies in other industries. And we're seeing all the industry's moving faster and everyone building solutions that were way better to the customer than the solutions that we were seeing. I don't know five or 10 years before, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about any industry, not only finance, right, So So we said. OK, looks like the financial industry is going to go through the same the same path and we're trying. We're trying to make things Mawr, mawr, I would say towards the customer and we're trying to understand customer needs better. And we actually did that when we have implemented a design thinking methodology back in 2010. Ah, Big one at the bank and And we came up with a lot of solutions building along with the customer and we were piling up backlogs, right? We're saying Okay, there's lots of stuff that we have to dio were lost in our spaghetti. That's pretty much it right, s So that's when we saw Okay, that's That's the end of Jesse moment that you describe Stop. We have to have a better platform. We have to reorganize ourselves. Otherwise we're gonna get lost in ourselves. There is no there's no way we can grow and invest Mawr because we're going to get stuck in this forget anyway. So So we structured a very robust program off platform modernization where we have we have invested over the last few years mainly, and we're going to keep on investing. Looking ahead where we try to build solutions while modernizing our platform. So there's no from from our perspective or a platform is big enough to just say that we cannot just rebuild the platform. Let's let's put a teen aside and let's rebuild the back that would take on all 789 years. I don't know how long and then we would be legacy again whenever finished. So what we do is we break up the our our reasoning. So we say Let's take each business as a very small component off the bank and let's build the technological components that support that business and let's extract those components from the monolith from from the Legacy. And and that's a strategy. That's the technology strategy that we have today. So we have empowered the business for them to own the platform. So they understand today that the platform is not a problem of technology, but it's actually the business. And by owning the platform, they understand that the monolithic doesn't allow them to be as fast as they want as the customer want, so it's very straightforward for them to understand that they have to break up the batter form They have to prioritize building micro services in the cloud so all the ideas and needs that they can identify will be much easier to implement. After that, >>you put it on them. They have to own the up they have to own. The business model of the platform is there. If the keys to the kingdom or in their hands, you're enabling that. That's a great stretch. And I love the MicroStrategy's breakout picking things out rather than trying to boil the ocean over over seven years. That's a big mistake people make and they end up having a legacy. Outdated platform that's ready for no one. Right? Ricardo? That's a masterclass right there in strategy. Thank you very much for sharing that insight into your bank And congratulations and all your innovations continues. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >>Thank you so much. >>Okay, I'm John. For a host of the Cube, virtual were remote this year. Got great content. Stay with us on the Cube Channel here on AWS. Reinvent. Thanks for watching

from around the globe it's thecube with coverage of kubecon and cloudnativecon north america 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners hey welcome back everybody jeff frick here with thecube coming to you from our palo alto studios for the continuing coverage of kubecon cloud native con 2020 north america there was the european version earlier in the summer it's all virtual uh so the good news is we don't have to get on planes and we can get guests from all over the world and we're excited to welcome back for his return to the cube ricardo rocha he is a staff member and computing engineer at cern ricardo great to see you hello thanks for having me absolutely and you're coming in from uh from geneva so you're you already had a good thursday i bet yeah we're just finishing right now yeah right so in in getting ready for this um interview i was looking at the interview that you did i think it was two cube cons ago uh in may of 2019 and it just strikes me a lot of people know what cern is but a lot of people don't know what's cern in so i wonder if you can just give you know kind of the 101 of what cern's mission is and what is some of the work that you guys do there yeah sure uh so cern is the european organization for uh nuclear research we are the largest particle physics laboratory in the world and our main mission is uh fundamental research so we try to answer big questions about why don't we see antimatter what is dark matter or dark energy other questions about the origin of the universe and to answer these questions we build very large machines particle accelerators where we try to recreate some of [Music] the moments just after the universe was created the big bang to try to understand better what was the state of the matter at that time the result of all of this is very often a lot of data that has to be analyzed and that's why we traditionally have had a huge requirements for computing resources during the the start of cern we always had this this large large requirements right and so you have this large particle accelerators as you said large machines the one that you've got now the the latest one how long has that one been operational yeah so it started uh like maybe around 10 years ago the first launch was a bit before that uh and it's uh it's a very large uh it's the largest one ever built so it's 27 kilometers in perimeter we inject protons into different uh directions and then we we make them collide where we build these huge detectors that can can see what's happening in these collisions uh the the main the main particle accelerator is this one we do have other experiments we have a nancy meta factory that is just uh down from my office and we have other types of experiments as well going right 27 kilometers that's a big that's a big number and then and then again just so people get some type of sense of scale so then you you you speed up the particles you smash them together you see what happens they collect all the data what types of data sets are generated off off just a one you know kind of event and i don't even know if that's a relative you know if that's a valid measure how do how do you measure kind of quantities of data around event just you know kind of for orders of magnitude right so uh the way it works is as you said we accelerate the particles to very close to the speed of light and we increase the energy by by having the beams well controlled and then at specific points we make them collide we have this gigantic detectors underground all of this is 100 meters in the ground and these detectors are pretty much a very large camera that would take something like 40 million pictures a second and the result of this is a huge amount of data each of these detectors can generate up to one petabyte of second this is not something we can record so what we do is we have hardware filters that will bring this down to something we can manage which is in the order of a few tens of gigabytes per second wow so you've been you've got a very serious computing challenge ahead of you because you're the one that's on the hook for for grabbing the data recording the data making the data available for for people to use um on their experiments um so we're here at kubecon cloud native con where did containers come into the story uh and and kubernetes specifically what was the real uh challenge that you're trying to overcome yeah so uh this is a a long story of uh using distributed computing at cern and other types of computing so as i mentioned we generate a lot of data we generate something like 7 but of 70 petabytes of data every year and we accumulated something over one half an exabyte of data by now so uh traditionally we've had to build this software ourselves um which was uh because there was not so many people around that would have this kind of needs but this revolution with containers and the clouds appearing kind of allowed us to to join other other communities and benefit also from their work and not have to do everything ourselves so this is the main probe for us to start doing this the other point is more containerization we traditionally are very we have a lot of needs to share information but also share resources between physicists and engineers so this idea of containerizing the work including all the code all the data and then sharing this with our colleagues is very appealing the fact that we can also take this unit of work and just deploy it in any infrastructure that has a standardized api like kubernetes and scale that monitoring the same way it's also very appealing so all of these things kind of connect with our way of working our natural way of working i would say right so you've talked about the this upgrade is coming um to the particle accelerator in a couple four or five years whatever that timeline is relatively soon um this as you've said before is a huge step function in the data that's that that's going to come off these experiments i mean how are you keeping up on the compute side with the fundamental shift in on kind of the physics side and the data that's going to be generated to make sure that you can keep up and i think you said it in a prior interview somewhere along the way that you know you don't want to be the bottleneck when there's all this great work being done but if it's not captured and made available for people to do stuff with the data then you know it's not uh it's not the greatest experiment so how are you keeping up and and what's the relative scale to have what you got to do on the compute side to keep up with the the guys on the physics side yeah so the the the idea well we what we will have to deal with is an increase of 10 times of more data than we have today we already have a lot and very soon we'll have a lot more but this is not i would say this is not the first time this kind of uh step happens uh in our computing we always kind of found a new technology or a new way to do things that would improve in in this case uh what we do is we do what we always do which is we try to look for all sorts of new technologies or all sorts of new resources that we could make use of in this case a lot is involving improving our own software to replace what we currently use with hardware triggers to replace that with software-based using accelerators gpus and other types of accelerators this will play a big role and also making our software more efficient in this way the second thing that we are doing is trying to make our infrastructure more agile and this is where cloud native kubernetes plays a huge role so that we can benefit from external resources uh we we can always think of like expanding our in on-premises resources but it's also very good to be able to just go and fish around if there's something available externally kubernetes plays a very big role in that respect as well yeah i'd love to dig into that a little deeper because the cloud native foundation is a super active foundation obviously a ton of activity around kubernetes so what does that mean to you as an infrastructure provider you know to your own company being on the hook to have now you know kind of an open source community that's supporting you indirectly via ongoing developments and ongoing projects and having as you said kind of this broader group of brain power to pull from to help you move your own infrastructure along yeah i think this this is great we've had really good experiences in the past we've been uh heavy users of uh linux from from from for a very long time we've used openstack for our private cloud and we've been heavily involved in that community as well we not only uh contribute as end users but we also uh offer some some manpower for development and helping with the community and we are doing the same with kubernetes uh and this is uh this is really we we end up getting a lot more than we we are putting in the community we are quite involved but uh it's so large and and and with such big players that have very similar needs to ours that uh we end up having a lot a lot more back than we are putting in we try to help as much as possible but uh yeah we have limited resources as well now open source is an amazing it's just an amazing innovation uh machine and and obviously it's proved as its value over a lot of things from linux to kubernetes being one of the most recent i want to shift gears a little bit right and ask you just your your take on public cloud right one of the huge benefits of public cloud is is the flexibility to add capacity shrink capacity as you need it and you talked again in a prior thing i was looking at you know that you definitely have spikes uh in demand spikes whether there's a high frequency of experiments i don't know how frequently you run those things versus maybe a conference or something where you said people you know want to get access to the data run experiments prior to your conference do you where does public cloud play in your thoughts and maybe you're there today maybe you're not how do you think about you know kind of public cloud generically but more specifically you know that ability to add a little bit more flex in your compute horsepower or are you just going up into the right up into the right and not really flexing down very much yeah so this is this is something we've been working on for a few years now uh we it's uh it's uh it's i would say it's an ongoing work it's a situation that will will not uh be very clear for the for the next few years but again what what we try to do is just to explore as much as possible all kinds of resources that can help us what we did in the kubecon last year was this demonstration that we can actually scale we can scale out and burst for for this uh spiky workloads we have we can burst to the to the public cloud quite easily using this kind of cloud native technologies that we have today and this is extremely important because it kind of changes our mindset instead of having to to think only on investing on premises we can think that maybe we can cover for the majority of use cases but then explore and burst to the public cloud this has to be easy in terms of infrastructure and that we are at that point right now with kubernetes we also have kind of workload that is maybe easier to do these things than than a traditional i.t where services are very interconnected in our case we are more thinking of batch workloads where we can just submit jobs uh and then fetch the data back right this also has a few challenges but but it's i would say it's it's easier than the traditional ite service deployments the other aspect where the public cloud is also very interesting is uh for resources that we don't have in large quantities so we have a very large farm for with cpus we have some gpus and it's very good to be able to explore this new accelerator technologies and maybe expand our available pool of accelerators by going to the public cloud maybe to use them but also to validate to see which ones are best for our use cases and explore that option as well it's not only general capacity it's really like dedicated um hardware that we might not even have ever like we think of tpus or ipu's it's something that is very interesting that we can scale and just go go use them in the public cloud yeah that's a really interesting point because because the cloud providers are big enough now right that they're building all kind of specialized specialized server specialized uh cpu specialized gpus dpus is a new one i've heard a data processing unit as you said there's fpgas and all kinds of accelerators so it is a really rich environment for as you said to do your experiments and find what the optimal solution is for whatever that particular workload is but ricardo i want to shift gears a little bit as we come to the end of 2020 thankfully for a whole bunch of reasons as you look forward to 2021 i mean clearly anticipating and starting to plan to get ready for your upgrade as a priority i'm just curious what are your other priorities and how does you know kind of the compute infrastructure in terms of an investment within cern you know kind of rank with the investment around the physical things that you're building the big machines because without the compute those other things really don't provide much data and i know those are we always talked about how expensive the particle accelerators is it's an interesting number and it's big but you guys are a big piece of that as well so what are your priorities looking forward to 2021 yeah from from the compute side i think we are keeping the the priorities in similar to what we've been doing the last few years which is to make sure that we improve all our automation to improve efficiency as well to prepare for these upgrades we have but also there's a lot of activity in this new uh area with machine learning popping up we have a ton of services appearing where people want to to start doing machine learning in many many use cases in some cases they want to do the filtering in the detectors in other cases they want to generate simulation data a lot faster using machine learning as well so i think this will be something that will be a huge topic for next year even for the next couple of years which is to see how we can offer our users and physicists the best service so that they don't have to care about the infrastructure they don't have to know about the details of how they scale their their model training their serving of their models all of this i think this will be a very big topic um it's something that it's becoming really a big part of of the world computing for high energy physics and for cern as well that's great we see that a lot you know just applied machine learning to very specific problems you talked about you still can't even record all that information that comes off those things you have to do some compression technology and other things so real opportunities barely scratched on the surface of machine learning and ai but i'm sure you're going to be using it a ton well ricardo give you give you the last word um we're in at cncf's uh kubecon cloud native con you know what do you get out of these types of shows and why is this such again kind of why is it such an important piece of your way you get your job done yeah honestly uh with all this uh situation right now i kind of really miss this kind of conferences in person uh it's really a huge opportunity to connect with uh with the other end users but also with with the community and to talk to the developers discuss things over uh coffee beer this is something that is really something that is really useful to to have this kind of meetings every year uh i think what what uh i always try to say is uh this this wall infrastructure is is truly making a big impact in the way we do things so we can only thank the community uh it's it allows us to to kind of shift to focusing on a higher level to focus more on our use cases instead of having to focus so much on the infrastructure we kind of start giving it as a given that the infrastructure scales and we can just use it and focus on optimizing our own software so this is a huge contribution we can only thank the cncf projects and everyone involved great well thank you for that uh that summary and that that's a terrific summary so ricardo thank you so much for all your hard work answering really big helping answer really big questions and uh and for joining us today and sharing your insight thank you very much all right he's ricardo i'm jeff you're watching the cube from our palo alto studios for continuing coverage of kubecon cloud nativecon 2020. thanks for watching see you next time [Music] you

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering A ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Vegas. It's the Cube, live from AWS reinvent 19. Lisa Martin here with John Walls and John. We've been hanging out with about 65,000 folks, or so >>just are best friends. But Wade talked about this just a little bit ago, but I really have impressed again with kind of discontinued energy and focus, and you know it's gonna go well beyond the show. But three days of back to back to back Great presentations, Great programming obviously show for still jam packed a really good show. Hats off Day W s >>absolutely right. The energy has not wavered one bit. And oftentimes, by day three, that challenge. There's so much excitement >>not out here, >>not in Vegas. Don and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guests to the Cube. To my left, we've got Jen Doyle, the VP of operations from one strategy, and Ricardo Madan, VP of technology products and service is from Texas is I got all right, give me carte Blanche on how to pronounce that, By the way. So guys, one strategy and Techsystems general store with you give her audience and understanding of one strategy. What you guys are way you deliver. Yeah, so we >>are a eight of us. Born in the cloud, dedicated partner of our Amazon Web service is we're premier consulting partner who focuses exclusively on delivering to our customers high quality. Eight of US expertise across industries. Yeah, so because we're exclusively in aid of us, it's a cost industries and pretty agnostics for customer size scale. So we have that unique capability to really dive deep on being the experts on the eight of us when our customers are the experts of their own business >>and tech systems. >>So tech systems Global Service is we are a full stack technology consulting professional service is GS I global system integrator on. We really pay attention to that term full stack because we cover every facet of the software systems operation have life cycle. But increasingly, in the last couple of years, what has been the heart and soul of our ecosystem of confidences and practices and capabilities has been cloud and even more so has been a W s, which is one of the reasons that we're super excited about coming together with one strategy. >>Cloud. Obviously, it's not. It's not a thing. It's the thing, right? So So we kind of moved that passed that when people come to your clients come to you and they will understand that this cloud experience, especially if they're if they're native cloud right there. Not not a legacy, not bringing stuff over. But they're gonna want to launch what's kind of the checklist that the preliminary of that elementary looked at you do to assess what their needs are, what they're like. It's what their opportunities are and kind of how you get them to start faking about exactly what they want to get done, because I assume it's It's a big shoulder hunch and a lot of questions about where do we go from here? So how do you get them to, I guess, oriented toward that conversation in that discussion, >>Yeah, so a lot of the way good place to start is just a really understand their business right now. It's no longer just a IittIe side of the house kind of discussion it's a whole business. So our first step is really to dive deep and understand their business schools, their culture and what their actual end goal is going to be. And so we have a really great part program that we partner with eight of us called the eight of US Well-architected Review program, which we were really fortunate to be one of the top initial partners selected for the beta program a few years ago and then a launch partner for them when they went public last year to really dive deep in, be able to figure out exactly what are they doing? What do they want to be doing and how to get there both on scale, vertically and horizontally, howto costs save and how to really make sure when they're doing it they're doing in a year fashion. >>And where are those conversations happening? Are they happening at the White Sea level, or is it really up, as Andy Jassy was talking about Tuesday? These types of transformations have to come from the executive senior level. Are you having these conversations with the heads of business? We've really been >>seeing that kind of transformation, and it's been phenomenal. Where that change in culture is no longer just the I t side of the house, it is senior leadership. Like Andy, Jassy said. It's now a holistic business approach where you need that alignment in the senior leadership down and that inclusivity in that kind of far and a lot of our conversations, you're getting everybody really buying into the eight of us cloud initiatives that are going on and keep me honest. I know on your side as well. Tech is experiencing a lot of that same thing >>indeed, in the wayto kind of, I guess, divide and conquer the vectors from where we lean in tow, handle those conversations and prioritize the needs and even deal with the different audiences Lisa, like you're talking about because, like Enterprise, I T owners and business owners, ultimately they care about making the business better, but they're approaching it from different lenses and a W s language. There is a methodology in a mindset called working backwards, and it really is the process of beginning with those goals those business goals that Jen talked about in framing them up just super tight. Before we talk about how many lines of code or how many servers are gonna be preventing. We don't want to even get into that. So we've got that really good flowing understanding of the quantified needs and howto really kind of celebrate what that is and then work backwards from there. That the conference Because it's such an all encompassing conversation, especially with enterprises that air nascent to the cloud, they've only dip their toe in the water. Kind of like what What Andy was talking about during his keynote a couple days ago uh, are specific methodology. Under working backwards, we break it up into two pieces. One is called Think big and one is called Act Now and act Now. Starting from there is usually for the folks, and that's like the technology solution there. Fluent enough, they're lucid enough and what their business is going to get out of cloud and out of a migration and out of native development. All that good stuff so we can kind of go right surgically in tow. Hey, how did we just make you better? Based on our combined expertise and our experience? Think big is a little bit more involved, kind where the question was going because you're thinking about O C M. Organizational change management. And how does that culture really In Stan? She ate itself to move fast and be agile and think in a lean way. And, oh, repurpose lots of skills and lots of roles that kind of go extinct after a while. So how do we take in all this? Great talents unorganised ation and UPS killed him. And next gen them to really operate inside of this new cloud ecosystem. >>So you're talking about really organizationally this leadership holster change or shift, if you will, Taking ownership of it from the very top. How do you characterized maybe what that mindset looks like today, as opposed to maybe 45 years ago? It's so easy to put it over. You know, just throw it over the I t guys and developers, and we're gonna focus on our marketing and our sales that we're going to know that you know that the C suite is there, right? Much more president, These kind of discussions. Yeah, you have to have that. Do you know >>how >>to drive that kind of fundamental change? >>For sure. I think a lot of it has to do with the accessibility that AWS Cloud is really bringing to the industry where it's now in such a easily integrating way and your entire business. It's sea level. As you say, down to the interns can have that same accessibility using that tool box. The eight of us allows for them to really jump in hands first and start making things right away. You could be spinning up instances within seconds. It's so simple for people at all levels of knowledge. It's not just the 20 years of I t. That could be the only ones to understand what's going on anymore. >>What are some of the barriers that AWS and Cloud are have removed that 5 10 years ago, customers were concerned with ABC that now those barriers have been mitigated, not be new barriers. But what about the evolution that you've seen A W s really sort of fuel, >>so that way could even think back to some of what What John you were talking about? The kind of erstwhile mindset was a very big iron one. You didn't really look ATT technology and I t as anything more than a utility. Now it's a competitive advantage. Not now you have. That's why you know, you have this whole concept of being a digital native and digital transformation. All these big words. They get so much air time. But that's really been an acceptance in an adoption that technology has gotten to the point where we're moving quicker, better faster is a function of celebrating CX customer experience and enhancing it and using technology to really make organizations move quicker, move faster, adopt new features into whatever their products that is, whether it's online or whether it's packaged whatever. And it's so I think those barriers that AWS has really kind of bubbled up to the surface and then sifted off has been that integration into the business. And that, that is, that's been a transformation that no other company has really enabled outside of AWS for years. Think about like Gartner and forced or an I. D. C. They would talk about the number one objective right is to be aligned with the business, but always in like a subservient role that was more of a foot forward in a leadership role that you see inside of these organizations >>used to be all those of the I t guys. >>Yeah, that's >>what the I t. Guys. Right? I mean, home on the whole thing. Saved. Go. If you look forward, then when you sit down with whomever and you're trying to walk them through their process and get evaluated, What their needs aren't so on so forth. What's the biggest hurdle you gotta get over with down somebody to say, You've got to be You've got to be totally present. This is your your i t offering should be. You should be cloud or your hybrid multi whatever you might be. But you got to be cloud What's the big challenge there? You think you really get somebody jumping in the deep end? >>Honestly, I would really say it's the culture change right now. It's been such a huge digital transformation. You can't deny that. But the culture transformation that's going along with that has really been phenomenal. And that's a lot of people who are at that point of starting their cloud journey, are starting to realize they have to change the way that they look at everything it, as you mentioned several times. It's not just the technical side anymore. It is the business side, and that's the big culture shift of getting over that. There's a lot of technical debt in there, with all the on creme in different areas that people have invested in. And honestly, right now, the day of lift and shift is gonna is kind of going away. It's all of the new cloud. Benefits, like surveillance and containers is really going to be revolutionary, but that education and enabling it really needs to be more prevalent in everybody's vocabulary. And not just the I t. Guy who could tell you about it. It needs to be the sea level, the enablers, the stakeholders in the middle that really understand what's going on. >>So could you talk to us about one strategy and tech systems coming together tell us a little bit about that, what you're doing together and how you might be an eight, an enabler of that cultural transformation that is absolutely linchpin. >>So there's that that enabler on that accelerator t kind of that that change and not to overuse the word accelerator. But that's just kind of one vector that we can talk about a little bit, and it's really what we're encouraging our customers to look at because they've got a broad choice of size of system integrators like us. But if you're not coming to the table with really depth of expertise, depth of expertise, that can help mute a lot of the complexity that were alluding to. Because even even though we've got so many benefits and so much growth happening inside the Ws world, there's 175 service is today. There have been 2500 feature updates releases across that portfolio Just this year alone, there's 5 to 10 new announcement today and then outside of the Ws stack, you've got hundreds and hundreds of other members of the Dev Ops Tool chain. They get bolted into that so that you know the way that we're kind of getting customers to overcome. Some of that reticence is by muting a lot of that, simplifying it and coming to the table with real accelerators, where we've invested collectively hundreds of thousands of lines of code that we've built and put together for AWS proprietary tools for better adoption, whether it's database freedom and getting like kick started off of your legacy oppressed database environments and into the the purpose built platforms inside of a W s, whether it's micro service's libraries and frameworks that we built for customers to help them start to decompose. Some of those those big, expensive, you know, high technical debt applications that General was talking about into micro service is to containerized to make him run faster in the cloud. So that's, you know, that's where we're leaning in from, Uh, not just with the expertise and the combined resume of hundreds of awesome engagements that we've moved customers to the cloud in and hundreds and hundreds of terabytes that we've moved. But it's it's doing it in a way where the customer knows that they've got a real leader here with them, side by side in the journey. And it doesn't happen in one or two conversations. I mean, this is going on across many different settings and demos and think big sessions like like we were talking about. It takes, it takes some time. >>Yeah, I mean that I think the combined family of Texas one strategy will really be phenomenal for our customers. 48% of the market right now is using AWS cloud and to keep up with that scale of innovation and growth. Just to be able to do that, businesses need eight of US experts and that's who we are. It's in our name our. We have one focus, one strategy and that's eight of us. We are developed based on the same agile, lean leadership principles the eight of us has and with the several competencies that we have. Such a Czar Data and Analytics Machine Learning Dev. Ops Migration Way have a proven track record of not only being the AWS experts but being able to be agile and grow with that same speed that eight of us ours to keep up with the training our teams on that expertise. And I think with tech systems, global footprint and ability to find these amazing talent combined with our skill set, we will be able to create a larger geographical footprint to deliver to our customers in a way that they will not only see our ability to deliver what they're doing but exceed their expectations. >>I imagine the amount of engagement that you're gonna have after an event like this three days you mentioned there after 175 service is that AWS is delivery the volume of announcements. It's incredibly challenging to keep up with that. Plus, there's 2500 sessions. You know, customers can't go to that many. So imagine there's gonna be a lot of leaning on one started Genentech systems to say, Help us deconstruct, deconstruct this digest all the opportunities here. So you guys air. I'm sure going to be very busy after this event. But we thank you for joining John and me today and telling us what you guys were doing individually and collectively together. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for our pleasure. For John. Walls were out. Vegas, baby, this has been the Cube. This is the end of our third day of continuous coverage of lots of stuff going on aws reinvent John. It's been a blast hosting a few segments with you >>as always. >>Nice job. See you next time. >>Thanks for having >>All right. I will see you next time. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon + CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, here at KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019 in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman. My co-host is Corey Quinn and we're thrilled to welcome to the program two gentlemen from CERN. Of course, CERN needs no introduction. We're going to talk some science, going to talk some tech. To my right here is Ricardo Rocha, who is the computer engineer, and Lukas Heinrich, who's a physicist. So Lukas, let's start with you, you know, if you were a traditional enterprise, we'd talk about your business, but talk about your projects, your applications. What piece of, you know, fantastic science is your team working on? >> All right, so I work on an experiment that is situated with the Large Hadron Collider, so it's a particle accelerator experiments where we accelerate protons, which are hydrogen nuclei, to a very high energy, so that they almost go with the speed of light. And so, we have a large tunnel underground, 100 meters underground in Geneva, so straddling the border of France and Switzerland. And there, we're accelerating two beams. One is going clockwise. The other one is going counterclockwise, and there, we collide them. And so, I work on an experiment that kind of looks at these collisions and then analyzes this data. >> Lukas, if I can, you know, when you talk to most companies, you talk about scale, you talk about latency, you talk about performance. Those have real-world implications for your world. Do you have anything you could share there? >> Yeah, so, one of the main things that we need to do, so we collide 40 million times a second these protons, and we need to analyze them in real time, because we cannot write out all the collision data to disk because we don't have enough disk space, and so we've essentially run 10,000 core real-time application to analyze this data in real-time and see what collisions are actually most interesting, and then only those get written out to disk, so this is a system that I work on called The Trigger, and yeah, that's pretty dependent on latency. >> All right, Ricardo, luckily you know, your job's easy. We say most people you need to respond, you know, to what the business needs for you and, you know, don't worry, you can't go against the laws of physics. Well, you're working on physics here, and boy those are some hefty requirements there. Talk a little bit about that dynamic and how your team has to deal with some pretty tough challenges. >> Right, so, as Lukas was saying, we have this large amount of data. The machines can generate something around the order of a petabyte a second, and then, thanks to their hardware- and software-level triggers, they will reduce this to something that is 10 gigabytes a second, and that's what my side has to handle. So, it's still a lot of data. We are collecting something like 70 petabytes a year, and we keep adding, so right now we have, the amount of storage available is on the order of 400 petabytes. We're starting to get at a pretty large scale. And then we have to analyze all of this. So we have one big data center at CERN, which is 300,000 cores, or something like this, around that, but that's not enough, so what we've done over the last 15, 20 years, we've created this large distributed computing environment around the world. We link to many different institutes and research labs together, and this doubles our capacity. So that's our challenge, is to make sure all the effort that the physicists put into building this large machine, that, in the end, it's not the computing that is breaking the world system. We have to keep up, yup. >> One thing that I always find fascinating is people who are dealing with real problems that push our conception of what scale starts to look like, and when you're talking about things like a petabyte a second, that's beyond the comprehension of what most of us can wind up talking about. One problem that I've seen historically with a number of different infrastructure approaches is it requires a fair level of complexity to go from this problem to this problem to this problem, and you have to wind up working through a bunch of layers of abstraction, and the end result is, and at the end of all of this we can run our blog that gets eight visits a day, and that just doesn't seem to make sense. Whereas what you're talking about, that level of complexity is more than justified. So my question for you is, as you start seeing these things evolve and looking at other best practices and guidance from folks who are doing far less data-intensive applications, are you seeing that a lot of the best practices start to fall down as you're pushing theoretical boundaries of scale? >> Right, that's actually a good point. Like, the physicists are very good at getting things done, and they don't worry that much about the process, as long as in the end it works. But there's always this kind of split between the physicists and the more computing engineer where the practices, we want to establish practices, but at the end of the day, we have a large machine that has to work, so sometimes we skip a couple of steps, but we still need, there's still quite a lot of control on like data quality and the software validation and all of this. But yeah, it's a non-traditional environment in terms of IT, I would say. It's much more fast pacing than most traditional companies. >> You mentioned you had how many cores working on these problems on site? >> So in-house, we have 300,000. >> If you were to do a full migration to the public cloud, you'd almost have to repurpose that many cores just to calculating out the bill at that point. Just, because all the different dimensions, everything winds working on at that scale becomes almost completely non-trivial. I don't often say that I'm not sure public cloud can scale to the level that someone would need to. In your case, that becomes a very real concern. >> Yeah, so that's one debate we are having now, and it's, it has a lot of advantages to have the computing in-house, and also because we pretty much use it 24/7, it's a very different type of workload. So we need a lot of resources 24/7, like even the pricing is kind of calculated differently. But the issue we have now is that the accelerator will go through a major upgrade just in five years' time, where we will increase the amount of data by 100 times. Now we are talking about 70 petabytes a year and we're very soon talking about like exabytes. So the amount of computing we'll need there is just going to explode, so we need all the options. We're looking into GPUs and machine learning to change how we do computing, and we are looking at any kind of additional resources we might get, and there the public cloud will probably play a role. >> Could you speak to kind of the dynamic of how something like an upgrade of that, you know, how do you work together? I can't imagine that you just say, "Well, we built it, "whatever we needed and everything, and, you know, "throw it over the wall and make sure it works." >> Right, I mean, so I work a lot on this boundary between computing and physics, and so internally, I think we also go through the same processes as a lot of companies, that we're trying to educate people on the physics side how to go through the best practices, because it's also important. So one thing I stressed also in the keynote is this idea of reproducibility and reusability of scientific software is pretty important, so we teach people to containerize their applications and then make them reusable and stuff like that, yup. >> Anything about that relationship you can expound on? >> Yeah, so like this keynote we had yesterday is a perfect example of how this is improving a lot at CERN. We were actually using data from CMS, which was one of the experiments. Lukas is a physicist in ATLAS, which is like a computing experiment, kind of. I'm in IT, and like all this containerized infrastructure kind of is getting us all together because computing is getting much easier in terms of how to share pieces of software and even infrastructure, and this helps us a lot internally also. >> So what particular about Kubernetes helps your environment? You talk for 15 years that you've been on this distributed systems build-out, so sounds like you were the hipsters when it came to some of these solutions we're working on today. >> That has been like a major change. Lukas mentioned the container part for the software reproducibility, but I have been working on the infrastructure for, I joined CERN as a student and I've been working on the distributed infrastructure for many years, and we basically had to write our own tools, like storage systems, all the batch systems, over the years, and suddenly with this public cloud explosion and open source usage, we can just go and join communities that have requirements sometimes that are higher than ours and we can focus really on the application development. If we base, if we start writing software using Kubernetes, then not only we get this flexibility of choosing different public clouds or different infrastructures, but also we don't have to care so much about the core infrastructure, all the monitoring, log collection, restarting. Kubernetes is very important for us in this respect. We kind of remove a lot of the software we were depending on for many years. >> So these days, as you look at this build-out and what you're looking, not just what you're doing today but what you're looking to build in the upcoming years, are you viewing containers as the fundamental primitive of what empowers this? Are you looking at virtual machines as that primitive? Are you looking at functions? Where exactly do you draw the abstraction layer, as you start building this architecture? >> So, yeah, traditionally we've been using virtual machines for like the last maybe 10 years almost, or, I don't know, eight years at least, and we see containerization happening very quickly, and maybe Lukas can say a bit more about the physics, how this is important on the physics side? >> Yeah, what's been, so currently I think we are looking at containers for the main abstraction because it's also we go through things like functions as a service. What's kind of special about scientific applications is that we don't usually just have our entire code base on one software stack, right? It's not like we would deploy Node.js application or Python stack and that's it. And so, sometimes you have a complete mix between C++, Python, Fortran, and all that stuff. So this idea that we can build the entire software stack as we want it is pretty important. So even for functions as a service where, traditionally, you had just a limited choice of runtimes, this becomes important. >> Like, from our side, the virtual machines still had a very complex setup to be able to support all this diversity of software and the containerization, just all the people have to give us is like run this building block and it's kind of a standard interface, so we only have to build the infrastructure to be able to handle these pieces. >> Well, I don't think anyone can dispute that you folks are experts in taking larger things and breaking them down into constituent components thereof. I mean, you are, quite obviously, the leading world experts on that. But was there any challenge to you as you went through that process of, I don't necessarily even want to say modernizing, but in changing your viewpoint of those primitives as you've evolved, have you seen that there were challenges in gaining buy-in throughout the organization? Was there pushback? Was it culturally painful to wind up moving away from the virtual machine approach into a containerized world? >> Right, so yeah, a bit, of course. But traditionally we, like physicists really focus on their end goal. We often say that we don't count how many cores or whatever, we care about events per second, how many events we can process per second. So, it's a kind of more open-minded community maybe than traditional IT, so we don't care so much about which technology we use at some point, as long as the job gets done. So, yeah, there's a bit of traction sometimes, but there's also a push when you can demonstrate that we get a clear benefit, then it's kind of easier to push it. >> What's a little bit special maybe also for particle physics is that it's not only CERN that is the researcher. We are an international collaboration of many, many institutes all around the world that work on the same project, which is just hosted at CERN, and so it's a very flat hierarchy and people do have the freedom to try out things and so it's not like we have a top-down mandate what technology we use. And then somebody tries something out. If it works and people see a value in it then you get adoption from it. >> The collaboration with the data volumes you're talking about as well has got to be intense. I think you're a little bit beyond the, okay, we ran the experiment, we put the data in Dropbox, go ahead and download it, you'll get that in only 18 short years. It seems like there's absolutely a challenge in that. >> That was one of the key points actually in the keynote is that, so a lot of the experiments at CERN have an open data policy where we release our data, and so that's great because we think it's important for open science, but it was always a bit of an issue, like who can actually practically analyze this data for people who don't have a data center? And so one part of the keynote was that we could demonstrate that using Kubernetes and public cloud infrastructure actually becomes possible for people who don't work at CERN to analyze this large-scale scientific data sets. >> Yeah, I mean maybe just for our audience, the punchline is rediscovering the Higgs boson in the public cloud. Maybe just give our audience a little bit of taste of that. >> Right, yeah, so basically what we did is, so the Higgs boson was discovered in 2012 by both ATLAS and CMS, and a part of that data, we used open data from CMS and part of that data has now been released publicly, and basically this was a 70-terabyte data set which we, thanks to our Google Cloud partners, could put onto public cloud infrastructure and then we analyzed it on a large-scale Kubernetes cluster, and-- >> The main challenge there was that, like, we publish it and we say you probably need a month to process it, but we had like 20 minutes on the keynote, so we kind of needed a bit larger infrastructure than usual to run it down to five minutes or less. In the end, it all worked out, but that was a bit of a challenge. >> How are you approaching, I guess, making this more accessible to more people? By which I mean, not just other research institutions scattered around the world, but students, individual students, sometimes in emerging economies, where they don't have access to the kinds of resources that many of us take for granted, particularly work for a prestigious research institutions? What are you doing to make this more accessible to high school kids, for example, folks who are just dipping their toes into a world they find fascinating? >> We have entire programs, outreach programs that go to high schools. I've been doing this when I was a student in Germany. We would go to high schools and we would host workshops and people would analyze a lot of this data themselves on their computers. So we would come with a USB stick that have data on them, and they could analyze it. And so part of also the open data strategy from ATLAS is to use that open data for educational purposes. And then there are also programs in emerging countries. >> Lukas and Ricardo, really appreciate you sharing the open data, open science mission that you have with our audience. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, for Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman. We're in day two of two days live coverage here at KubeCon + CloudNativeCon 2019. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT conference, 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Keith Townsend, and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We're at Nutanix NEXT 2018, happy to welcome to the program Brian Stevens, who's the CTO of Google Cloud, had on the program many times. Brian, always a pleasure to catch up with you. >> Thanks, glad to be here. >> Stu: And have a first time guest, Ricardo Jenez, who's the SVP of Development at Nutanix. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Well, thank you for being, thanks for being here. >> Alright, so Ricardo you've only been with Nutanix for three months. I believe this is probably your first .NEXT? >> Ricardo: Yes, it is. >> So give us a little bit about your role and what brings you to us today. >> So I'm responsible for some of the core data path and per some products. So, you know, a lot of it has to do with how do we end up delivering value to our customers and actually end up having predictable, scalable HCI solutions. So, that's really what I'm focused on and focusing on sort of improving our ability to deliver products more quickly. >> So Brian, last year Diane Greene was up on stage talking about the partnership and what was happening here, see Google at the show, obviously a tighter partnership for Nutanix, but give us the update on-- >> We're downgrading. >> Yeah? >> Slumming it. >> Not at all. Not at all. I wish we had enough time to get into the weeds on some of the stuff you're working on, but tell us what brings you here and what kind of stuff you're poking at these days. >> Geez, I think I met Sunil Potti a couple years ago, just at the very beginning of trying to find sort of the intersection between Google Cloud and Nutanix. I mean, Nutanix is largely redefining what IT looks like on premise. We believe we're doing that in cloud, and you really just want to eliminate the impedance between on-premise and public cloud, and so the work with Nutanix is all like what can we do to actually make it more seamless for users that want to use core cloud technology. >> Yeah Brian, you're one of those people that we would say have enterprise DNA in what they've done in their background. People on the outside will always say, Well you know, it's Google, it's Google-y. It's too smart for us. >> Brian: Enterprise DNA is still sexy. >> Yeah, I mean look, there's a lot of enterprises out there, and while yes, the other startups. Maybe we talk a little bit about what that means inside Google. >> Oh my gosh, yeah it was quite a pivot for Google, you know. It was amazing technology, but the customer that you were serving with Google Cloud was already inside of Google. You were serving Surge and YouTube and ads. So you end being up, a really technically, but close relationship. And so what enterprise is, a couple things, it's been a cultural transformation inside of Google, it's been obviously working with enterprise customers globally and building that go to market model and motion that you can sell, but we want a really technical engineered partnership with our customers. So it's not a vendor relationship. So building all that out, we thing we're unique with that. And then the other part I think you were alluding to early before we went on mic, was just around enterprise has a increased set of requirements on what we deliver them from a capabilities perspective, from a security aspect, from a telemetry aspect. And then it's all like how do we actually slipstream into their process, rather than just redefine everything. So to us, that's a big part of what our enterprise pivot's been, for the last three, four years. >> So Ricardo, you have some background at Google. What brought you to Nutanix? What appealed to you? >> Well you know, more than anything else, I think Nutanix has set themselves up, to basically take that experience it has in enterprise, and translate that into the cloud. So when I was at Google, I actually worked on the Google search appliance, which was Google's first-- >> I remember that. >> You remember that. >> I had that one. >> Little yellow boxes, sometimes blue boxes, and that was a great experience. So I'm really happy to hear that Brain talk about the transformation that has happened within Google. But you know, being at Nutanix, the ability to take that experience very close with the work loads that customers are running, and then being able to work with a partner like Google and actually be able to have hybrid clouds where internal private cloud plus having public cloud providers, that really ends up changing the game for a lot of enterprises. >> Yep. Brain, One of the things we've been struggling with as an industry is, you know, it's application mobility. Data, where it goes. Nutanix has been talking about really hybrid cloud from their standpoint. We've talked with you before about where Kubernetes fits into this. Application portability, you just made an acquisition, today was announced, Velostrata. Give us your state on where those things added, it's a big gnarly topic. >> It was just more friction, like public cloud offers great capability that's going to be used not necessarily completely instead of, but in companion to, you know, application services. But there was still that friction around in the early incarnation, it was like it's VMware in this environment or KVM in this environment, and it's a whole nother AMI kind of model here. So the ability to use it, there was a tax. And then there also wasn't that portability and that lightweight aspect that you'd want from an application containerization. I mean, you want what you have on your phone. You want that ability to install apps anywhere. And cloud and IT infrastructure should be exactly the same way. So that's a big part of our investment in containerization. You know Google, back when I was at Red Hat, was investing in cgroups back when there was a kernel, way back then to kind of build that first incarnation of containers in Linux. Along comes Docker to standardize that. I mean, it's an amazing gift to the world. And then Kubernetes is, we're just moving up the stack, on how do you orchestrate it. So sure, companies like Velostrata are really interesting because you have, you know, beyond having Kubernetes platform everywhere, yeah we'll say it's the de facto, but that doesn't mean everybody's running it. And so you're still running on existing systems, you know, largely kind of virtualized. And Velostrata is a technology leader in being virtualization of this type to Google Cloud or other clouds. And then even more so, the technology they have to bring that to containers. So they help you do that migration, transformation process. And I think that's really important for IT organizations. >> Ricardo, you want to comment on some of the hybrid cloud migration stuff? >> So we have our com product, which allows us to actually end up taking workload and moving it to, for instance, Google Cloud or eventually sciCloud and then moving that workload back. So having that sort of Nutanix inside and outside gives it maximum flexibility, and that's a lot of power for IT to have, right? Deciding where it's best to actually run their workloads and be as efficient as possible. >> So as we look at the com, we look at Google Cloud, just the overall pictures, if you're enterprise, you're looking at Google and you're saying man, Google runs at two different speeds. One is 12 factor, micro services, Kubernetes, functions. And then the other side is that, some people just want a VM. They just want a cloud instance and how to make that simple. So let's talk about this relationship. How does Nutanix come together with Google who runs at two different speeds, to make Google Cloud more consumable to the average enterprise? >> Well we're going to talk a little bit more about it later, but the fact that basically we're going to be able to deploy Xi within Google Cloud with nested AHV, and then allow our customers, that'll basically be doing standard workloads to migrate their jobs over to a Google Cloud offering. And as Brian will point out, that basically creates opportunities for them to be able to avail themselves of other capabilities that Google has. So it's not altogether an instant moving path to rewrite, reorient all your apps. It's an ability to kind of do that school migration, if you want to. But you have that capability of being able to go back and forth, in terms of what your workloads are. >> Yeah. >> Brian, want to get your viewpoint on just some of the changing roles that are happening in our industry. We were talking that some of the interviews we've been doing today, it's people talking about infrastructure and code. There was a big hackathon at this event for the first time in, they sold out with over 14 groups, and everything like that. This is a show that started out with people talking about storage, and now we're talking about individual data centers and clouds and all of those things. What are you seeing out in the marketplace? What are some of the challenges and opportunities you're hearing from customers these days? >> I mean it depends on which customers, right? Which region of the world and what their business looks like and I think we all know the holy grail. Infrastructure, as code, is an implementation, but I think what we know that what you really desire is the ability for reproduce ability. The ability to sort of not have state in the IT process. You want to be able to recreate things anywhere. Recreate a whole application, blueprint internally, on public cloud. Tear it down, recreate it. There's no other way to do that without code. So what sort of comes from that SRE model that Google invented, is that what it you didn't have an IT department? And what if you had software engineers that were responsible for IT function? What would that look like? And that's where all of the sudden you realize, everything's APIs and code. So I think that's interesting, and that's sort of where you want to get to, but it's then like, how do you bridge that because a lot of people aren't software developers in IT departments. >> So here's my follow up, 'cause when I go to the Kubernetes show and I talk to users there, 95% of them-- >> They're way over there. >> Had built their own stack, and why do they do that? Because they were ahead of all the platforms. And then I come to the Nutanix show and they're like oh, tensorflow and functions and all that stuff. We're going to put an easy button, and make it easy. I need to take all of these tools and open source and put it together, versus the platform and the easy button. Is this just the early adopters and the majority? >> I think that's okay. That's the open source world, right? I mean think about what's great about open source, is not just creating sort of a venue for collaboration and developers, it's creating access for end users. And so some of the best companies in the world have been built on a DIY model of people just taking open source and integrating it and making the recipe that they want. And so I think you get that whole sort of spectrum and you aren't forced down this model of, here's a COTS product, oh and it happens to be based on open source, but you always have to use technology this way. Open source gives them the freedom to do it as they want. We just need to make sure that we bridge it, so that there's not anybody left behind. That everybody should be able to use the power of Kubernetes, and that means making things super easy to use, and the integration with Nutanix we think is a huge part of making you use that technology stack in a way that's seamlessly operated for an audience like this. >> So a lot of the debate and questions around Kubernetes is how far should it go? Should it go as far as being an opinionated pass? Should it just be a container platform? Where does it start and end? >> Brian: You want my opinion? >> Yeah, opinion that would be awesome. >> Yeah, that was it. Well I think the way the industry started was obviously, there were no PASes, and then we built OpenShift to Red Hat and Google app engine in Roku. And what happened is, those are interesting, but you're right, they are overly opinionated. So you were left either picking a PAS, and you got to change everything to do it this way, and it's great because it delivers value of managed service, but not everything fit in that model. Or you got next to nothing. >> Keith: Right. >> You got a straight IS platform, and then you got to do all the rest. So what we've been doing at Google is tearing that apart and building that architecture from the ground up where you opt into the level that you want. If you want to be able to use IS and the features of IS you use that. If you want to step up and just use containers and IS, you can use containers and IS. If you want to step up and use Kubernetes orchestration, you can do that. If you want to step up and run managing everything in services, than that stacks on top of Kubernetes with STO. If you want to be full on and put in a developer workflow that always has you do deploys this way, then that stacks on top. So I think you're going to get away from this false dichotomy of a choice over here or here, and you're going to all of a sudden get this architectural layering cake that lets you opt into what you want and have IT consistency all the way through it. >> I mean, I used to have a startup that was focused on Hatuputu service, and you know one of the things was basically you didn't have this layering, right? It was, you take the whole stack or you take nothing. And I think the strategy that Google has employed with Kubernetes is just brilliant, to kind of work you way up and basically get people at different levels to be involved. You know, there is a do-it-yourself folks, and they should be allowed to and empowered to do the things that they want to do. And then there are other people who want to have more composed environment. And so we can actually bring that to them as well. And I think that's brilliant. Basically very early on, while Google used a lot of open source internally, it wasn't a strong sort of part of the open source environment. And so I've just enjoyed watching the evolution of Google, sort of leading the open source movement. So, it's been fantastic. I'm right there with you, you know, give them at every level. >> Ricardo, one of the questions coming into this week, people want to know the update of what's happening with Xi. Can you speak about where we are with that and the relationship with Google? What should we be looking for for the rest of this year? >> Well I can't really talk about that, but you know, we are working very closely with Google. And we'll talk a little bit about that at our talk later today. But I won't comment on anything to do with Xi. >> So that gives me the opportunity to ask another controversial question about Kubernetes and getting both of your opinions on it. There's religions and open sourced as religions, enterprise IT, one of which is DevOps. And you look at what companies like Netflix have done with containerizing Java applications and running those legacy Java applications in their container platform. Enterprises are looking at that stuff and thinking, you know what, can I containerize my monolithic application, put it on top of Kubernetes, and drive more efficiency out of my operations from portability to being able to stack up applications in public cloud, general things. Monolithic applications, is that a good thing, bad thing, indifferent? Wrong plate, wrong tool, wrong-- >> No, I think it's just that there's no like one size even for what a monolithic app looks like. Like we don't really have a really proper definition of what it is, but I think people do feel that all of a sudden Kubernetes needs a rewrite and containers needs a rewrite, and actually it doesn't. Because apps are usually sort of separated from the OS already. And so what they're doing is marrying the libraries of the OS, and containers allows them to do that, but just get a higher degree of portability and then with Kubernetes orchestration. So it really depends more around what's the machine resources that that monolithic app needs and are those machine resources still available in a containerized environment. In most cases, the answer is yes. Now the most interesting thing is, what's the escape hatch? Because you can't have a monolithic app that your company, say it's on Mainframe, say it's in the case of something that will not containerize and shouldn't because it's working as designed and there's no use touching it. But that should still participate in the application architecture of the future. And that's why SEO and services are so important. So even if you can't change your runtime stack, you still need to be able to put a services layer in an API in front of that monolithic service, and you'll have a visibility of a service mesh inside of that environment. So now IT sees it just looks like a black box IT service. It doesn't really matter to them that it's not running on the next generation stack because they can still depend on its' services. >> Yeah, I mean I would agree. I look at what Kubernetes offers and containers as sort of an on ramp to creating services, the on ramp to actually taking that monolithic application, assuming that they're resources, and take a step up in terms of the architectures that you can build around it and then be able to break apart that monolithic application. It doesn't have to happen all at once. It's sort of the stepping stones that you can take. So it's a very powerful model for enablement for people who have stuff that they haven't been able to make the most value out of because maybe the application's been around for a while. Now they can actually end up putting it in an environment where they can actually make the most of it and then work on how they're going to end up slowly pulling it apart and making it more service oriented. >> Alright, Ricardo and Brian, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate the update and look forward to seeing more throughout the show and further in the year. Be sure to check out theCUBE.net where you'll not only find all of this information, but theCUBE is really excited to say that we will be at the Google Cloud show in July. So for Keith Townsend, and I'm Stu Miniman, getting towards the end of day one of two days of live coverage. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From downtown San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering RSA North America 2018. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the RSA conference in San Francisco 40,000 plus people talking about security, gets bigger and bigger every year. Soon it's going to eclipse Oracle Open World and Sales Force to be the biggest conference in all of San Francisco. But we've got somebody who's been coming here he said for 16 years, Ricardo Villidiego, the EDP and GM Security and Fraud for Cyxtera. Did I get that right, Cyxtera? >> Cyxtera. >> Jeff: Cyxtera Technologies, great to see you. >> Thank you Jeff, it's glad to be here. >> So you said you've been coming here for 16 years. How has it changed? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. You know it's becoming bigger, and bigger, and bigger I believe this is a representation of the size of the prowling out there. >> But are we getting better at it, or is it just the tax service is getting better? Why are there so many, why is it getting bigger and bigger? Are we going to get this thing solved or? >> I think it is that combination within we have the unique solution that is going to help significantly organizations to get better in the security landscape I think the issue that we have is there's just so many now use in general and I think that now is a representation of the disconnection that exists between the way technologies are deploying security and the way technologies are consuming IT. I think IT is completely, has a evolved significantly and is completely hybrid today and organizations are continuing to deploy security in a way like if we were in the 90s. >> Right. >> And that's the biggest connection that exists between the attacks and the protection. >> But in the 90s we still like, or you can correct me, and we can actually build some big brick walls and a moat and a couple crocodiles and we can keep the bad guys out. That's not the way anymore. >> It is not a way. And look, I believe we're up there every protection creates a reaction on the adversary. And that is absolutely true in security and it is absolutely true in the fraud landscape. Every protection measure will push the adversary to innovate and that innovation is what, for good and for bad, has created this big market which we can't complain. >> Right, right. So for folks that aren't familiar with Cyxtera give them the quick update on what you guys are all about. >> So see, I think Cyxtera is here to conquer the cyber security space. I think what we did is we put together technologies from the companies that we acquire. >> Right. >> With a combination of the call center facilities that we also acquired from Centurylink to build this vision of the secure infrastructure company and what we're launching here at the RSA conference 2018 is AppGate 4.0 which is the flagship offering around secure access. Secure access is that anchor up on which organizations can deploy a secure way to enable their workforce and their party relationships to get access the critical assets within the network in a secure way. >> Okay, and you said 4.0 so that implies that there was a three and a two and probably a one. >> Actually you're right. >> So what are some of the new things in 4.0? >> Well, it's great it gives it an evolution of the current platform we lounge what we call life entitlements which is an innovative concept upon which we can dynamically adjust the permitter of an an end point. And the user that is behind that end point. I think, you know, a permitter that's today doesn't exist as they were in the 90s. >> Right, right. >> That concept of a unique permitter that is protected by the firewall that is implemented by Enact Technology doesn't exist anymore. >> Right. >> Today is about agility, today is about mobility, today is about enabling the end user to securely access their... >> Their applications, >> The inevitable actions, >> They may need, right. >> And what AppGate does is exactly that. Is to identify what the security processor of the end point and the user behind the end point and deploy a security of one that's unique to the specific conditions of an end point and the user behind that end point when they're trying to access critical assets within the network. >> Okay, so if I heard you right, so instead of just a traditional wall it's a combination of identity, >> Ricardo: It's identity. >> The end point how their access is, and then the context within the application. >> That's exactly right. >> Oh, awesome so that's very significant change than probably when you started out years ago. >> Absolutely, and look Jeff, I think you know to some extent the way enterprises are deploying security is delusional. And I say that because there is a reality and it looks like we're ignoring ignoring the reality but the reality is the way organizations are consuming IT is totally different than what it was in the 90s and the early 2000s. >> Right. >> The way organizations are deploying security today doesn't match with the way they're consuming IT today. That's where AppGate SDP can breach that gap and enable organizations to deploy security strategies that match with the reality of IT obstacles today. >> Right. If they don't get it, they better get it quick 'cause else not, you know we see them in the Wall Street Journal tomorrow morning and that's not a happy place to be. >> Absolutely not, absolute not and we're trying to help them to stay aware of that. >> Right. Alright, Ricardo we'll have to leave it there we're crammed for time but thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day. >> Alright Jeff, thank you very much I love to be here. >> Alright. He's Ricardo I'm Jeff you're watching theCUBE from RSAC 2018 San Francisco. (upbeat music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022, brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to Licia Spain in Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith Townsend, along with my cohot Paul Gillon, who's been putting in some pretty good work talking to incredible people. And we have, I don't wanna call, heard the face of CNCF, but you kind of introduced me to, you don't know this, but you know, charmer executive director of CNCF. You introduced me to Kuan at Cuan San Diego's my one of my first CU coupons. And I was trying to get my bearings about me and you're on stage and I'm like, okay. Uh, she looks like a reasonable person. This might be a reasonable place to learn about cloud native. Welcome to the show. >>Thank you so much for having me. And that's so nice to hear >><laugh> it is an amazing show, roughly 7,500 people. >>Yes, that's right. Sold out >>Sold. That's a big show. And with that comes, you know, uh, so someone told me, uh, CNCF is an outstanding organization, which it, which it is you're the executive director. And I told them, you know what, that's like being the president of the United States without having air force one. <laugh> like you get home. I dunno >>About that. You >>Get, no, you get all of the, I mean, 7,500 people from across, literally across the world. That's true at Europe. We're in Europe, we're in, we're coming out of times that have been, you know, it can't be overstated. It, this, this is unlike any other times. >>Yes, absolutely >>Difficult decisions. There was a whole co uh, uh, I don't know the term, uh, uh, cuffa uh, or blow up about mask versus no mask. How do you manage just, just the diversity of the community. >>That is such a great question, because I, as I mentioned in my keynote a little bit, right? At this point, we're a community of what, 7.1 million developers. That's a really big group. And so when we think about how should we manage the diversity, the way I see it, it's essential to treat each other with kindness, professionalism, and respect. Now that's easy to say, right. Because it sounds great. Right. Old paper is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Great >>Concept. 0.1 million people later. >><laugh> exactly. And so, uh, this is why like, uh, I phoned a friend on stage and, um, van Jones came and spoke with us. Who's the renowned CNN contributor, uh, commentator, sorry. And his advice was very much that in such a diverse community, there's always gonna be lots of perspectives, lots opinions. And we need to a always bring the version of ourselves, which we think will empower this ecosystem, BEC what are, what we are doing. If everybody did that, is that gonna be a good thing or a bad thing? And the other is we need to give each other space and grace, um, space to do what we need to do. Grace. If there are mistakes, if there are challenges. And so those are, those are some good principles for us to live by. And I think that in terms of how CNCF tries to enable the diversity, it's by really trying to hear from everybody possible, the vocal loud voices, as well as the folks who you need to reach out a little bit, pull in a little bit. So it's an ongoing, it's an ongoing challenge that we do our best with. >>How do you balance? And I've been to a lot of trade shows and conferences over the years, their trade organizers are very coin operated. You know, they're there, they're there for the money. Yeah. <laugh> and you have traditional trade shows and you have a situation here where an open source community that is motivated by very different, um, principles, but you need to make money. You need the show to be profitable. Uh, you need to sell some sponsorships, but you also need to keep it available and open to the people who, who don't have the big budgets. How are you balancing that? >>So I would actually like to, uh, share something that may not be obvious, which is that we don't actually do the shows to make money. We, um, as you said, like, uh, a lot of trade shows are coin up and the goal there is like, um, well actually they're different kinds of, I think if it's an independent event organization, it can be like, Hey, let's make as much revenue as possible. If it's part of a large, um, large company, like, like cloud provider, et cetera, the events tend to be lost leaders because they're like lead gen, I think, >>But they're, they're lost leaders, but they're profit makers ultimately >>Long term. Yeah. Yeah. It's like top of the funnel. I, I guess for us, we are only doing the events to enable the community and bring people from different companies together. So our goal is to try and break even <laugh> >>Well, that's, that's laudable. Um, the, how big does it get though? I mean, you're at the point with 7,500 attendees here where you're on the cusp of being a really big event, uh, would you limit it size eventually? Or are you just gonna let this thing run? Its course. >>So our inherent belief is that we want to be accessible and open to more and more and more people because the mission is to make cloud native ubiquitous. Right. Uh, and so that means we are excited about growth. We are excited about opening the doors for as everyone, but I think actually the one, one good thing that came out of this pandemic is that we've become a lot more comfortable with hybrid. So we have a virtual component and an in-person component. So combining that, I think makes it well, it's very challenging cause like running to events, but it's also like, it can scale a little bit better. And then if the numbers increase from like, if they double, for example, we're still, I think we're still not in the realm of south by Southwest, which, which feels like, oh, that's the step function difference. So linear increases in number of attendees, I think is a good thing. If, and when we get to the point where it's, um, you know, exponential growth at that point, we have to think about, um, a completely different event really. Right, >>Right. So 7 billion people in the world approaching 8 billion, 7.1 members in the community. Technology is obviously an enabler where I it's enabled me to, to be here and Licia Spain experiencing this beautiful city. There's so much work to be done. What mm-hmm <affirmative> what is the role of CNCF in providing access to education and technology for the rest of the world? >>Absolutely. So, you know, one of the key, uh, areas we focus on is learning and development in supporting the ecosystem in learners beginners to start their cloud native journey or expand their cloud native journey with training certifications, and actually shared this in the keynote every year. Uh, the increase in number of people taking certifications grows by 216% year over year growth. It's a lot, right? And every week about a thousand people are taking a certification exam. So, and we set that up primarily to bring people in and that's one of our more successful initiatives, but we do so many, we do mentorship programs, internship programs. We, uh, a lot of diversity scholarships, these events, it all kind of comes together to support the ecosystem, to grow >>The turning away from the events, uh, toward just toward the CNCF Brit large, you have a growing number of projects. The, the number of projects within CNCF is becoming kind of overwhelming. Is there an upper threshold at which you would, do you tighten the, the limits on, on what projects you will incubate or how big does that tent become? >>Right. I think, you know, when we had 50 projects, we were feeling overwhelmed then too, but we seem to have cop just fine. And there's a reason for that. The reason is that cloud native has been growing so fast with the world. It's a representative of what's going on in our world over the course of the pandemic. As you know, every company became a technology company. People had to like double their engineering staffs over without anybody ever having met in person mm-hmm <affirmative> right. And when that kind of change is going around the world cloud needing be being the scaffolding of how people build and deploy modern software just grew really with it. And the use cases we needed to support grew. That's why the types of projects and kinds of projects is growing. So there's a method. There's a reason to the madness I should say. And I think, um, as the world and, uh, the landscape of technology evolves cloud native will, will evolve and keep developing in either into new projects or consolidation of projects and everything is on the table. >>So I think one of these perceptions Riley Arone is that CNCF is kind of where the big people go to play. If you're a small project and you're looking at CNCF, you're thinking one day I'll get big enough. Like how should small project leaders or leaders of small projects, how should they engage CNCF? >>Totally. And, you know, I want to really change this narrative because, um, in CNCF we have three tiers of projects. There's the graduated ones, which are at the top. These are the most mature ones we really believe and put our sand behind them. They, uh, then there's the incubating projects, which are pretty solid technologies with good usage that are getting there. And then there's the sandbox, which is literally a sandbox and op open ground for innovation. And the bar to entry is low in that it's, uh, easy to apply. There's a mass boat to get you in. And once you're in, you have a neutral IP zone created by being a CNCF project that you can attract more maintainers, more companies can start collaborating. So we, we become an enabler for the small projects, so everybody should know that >>FYI. Yeah. So I won't be interested to know how that, so I have an idea. So let's say I don't have an idea, but let's say that idea have, >>I'm sure you have an idea. <laugh>, I'm >>Sure I have idea. And, and I just don't have the infrastructure to run a project. I need help, but I think it it's going to solve a pro problem. Yeah. What's that application process like, >>So, okay. So you apply after you already have let's a GitHub repo. Okay. Yeah. >>So you, I have a GI help repo. >>Yeah. As in like your pro you've started the project, you started the coding, you've like, put it out there on GitHub, you have something going. And so it's not at just ideal level. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's at like early stage of execution level. Um, and so, and then your question was, how do you apply? >>Yeah. So how do I, so I have, let's say that, uh, let, let's talk about something I'm thinking about doing, and I actually do, is that we're thinking about doing a open store, a cloud native framework for people migrating to the public cloud, to, or to cloud native. There's just not enough public information about that. And I'm like, you know what? I wanna contribute what I know to it. So that's a project in itself, not necessarily a software project, but a IP project, or let's say I have a tool to do that migration. And I put that up on my GitHub report. I want people to iterate on that tool. >>Right. So it would be a simple process of literally there is when you go to, um, our, uh, online, uh, materials, there's a simple process for sandbox where you fill a Google form, where you put in your URL, explain what you're doing, or some basic information hit submit. And we batch process these, um, about every once a month, I think. And, uh, the TC looks at the, what you've filled in, takes a group vote and goes from there. >>When about your operating model, I mean, do, do you, you mentioned you don't look to make a profit in this show. Do you look, and I wanna be sure CNCF is a non-profit, is that correct? Correct. Do you look, what models do you look at in determining your own governance? Do you look at a commercial business? Do you look at a nonprofit? Um, like of ourselves? Yeah. What's your model for how you run CNCF. >>Oh, okay. So it's a nonprofit, as I said, and our model is very simple. We want to raise the funds that we are able to raise in order to then invest them into community initiatives that play the supporter enabler role to all these projects we just talked about. We're not, we are never the project. We are the top cheerleader of the project. Think of us like that. And in terms of, um, but interestingly, unlike, I, I mean, I don't know much about other found, uh, nonprofit session compare, but interestingly, the donating companies are relevant, not just because of their cash that they have put in, but because those companies are part of this ecosystem and they need to, um, them being in this ecosystem, they help create content around cloud native. They, they do more than give us money. And that's why we really like our members, uh, they'll provide contributing engineers to projects. They will help us with marketing with case studies and interviews and all of that. And so it, it becomes this like healthy cycle of it starts with someone donating to become a member, but they end up doing so many different things. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and ultimately the goal is make cloud native ubiquitous and all this goes towards >>That. So talk to me about conflict resolution, because there's some really big projects in CNC, but only some stuff that is changed, literally changing the world, but there's competing interest between some of the projects. I mean, you, you, there there's, if you look at service mesh, there's a lot of service mesh solutions Uhhuh. Yes. And there's just different visions. Where's the CNCF and, and kind of just making sure the community aspect is thought across all of the different or considered across all the different projects as they have the let's say inevitably bump heads. >>Yeah. So by design CNCF was never meant to be a king maker where you picked one project. Right. And I think that's been working out really well because, um, one is when you accept a project, you're not a hundred percent sure that specific one is gonna take over that technology space. Right. So we're leaving it open to see who works it out. The second is that as every company is becoming a technology company, use cases are different. So a service mesh service mesh a might work really well for my company, but it really may not be a fit for your code base. And so the diversity of options is actually a really good thing. >>So talk to me about, uh, saw an interesting note coming out of the keynote yesterday, 65% of the participants here at CU con are new to Kuan. I'm like, oh, I'm a, I'm a vet. You are, I went to two or three before this. So O GE yeah, OG actually, that's what I tweeted OG of Kuan, but, uh, who, who are they like, what's making up? Are they developers? Are they traditional enterprises? Are they contributing companies? Who's the 65%, >>Um, who's the 65%, >>Right? The new, new, >>Well, it's all kinds of C companies sending their developers, right? It's sometimes there's a lot of them are end users. I think at least half or a third, at least of attendees are end user companies. And, uh, then there is also like the new startups around town. And then there is like the, every big company or small has been hiring developers as fast as possible. And even if they've always been a player in cloud native, they need to send all these people to this ecosystem to start building the relationships start like learning the technology. So it's all kinds of folks are collecting to that here. >>As I, as I think about people starting to learn the technologies, learn the communities, the one thing the market change for this coupon for me over others is the number of customers, sharing stories, end user organizations. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm, <affirmative> much of the cuon that I've been through many of the open source conferences. It's always been like vendors pushing their message, et cetera. What talk, tell me about that. C change. >>One thing that's like just immediate, um, and the case right now is that all the co-chairs for the event who are in charge of designing the agenda are end users. So we have Emily Fox from apple. We have Jasmine James from Twitter, and we have Ricardo Roka from se. So they're all end users. So naturally they're like, you know, picking talks that they're like, well, this is very relevant. Imma go for that and I'm here for it. Right? So that's one thing that's just happening. The other though is a greater trend, which is, as I was saying in the pandemic, so many companies has to get going and quickly that they have built expertise and users are no longer the passive recipients of information. They're equal contributors. They know what they need, what they want, they have experiences to share. And you're seeing that reflected in the conference. >>One thing I've seen at other conferences in the past that started out really for practitioners, uh, is that invariably, they want to go upscale and they wanna draw the CIOs and the, oh yeah. The, uh, you know, the executive, the top executives. Is that an objective, uh, for you or, or do you really want to keep this kind of a, a t-shirt crowd for the long term? >>Hey, everyone's welcome. That's really important, you know? Right. And, um, so we, and that's why we are trying to expand. It's like, you know, middle out as they had in the Silicon valley show the idea being, sorry, I just meant this a little. Okay. So the idea being that we've had the core developer crews, developer, DevOps, SRE crowd, right op over the course of the last virtual events, we actually expanded in the other direction. We put in a business value track, which was more for like people in the business, but not in as a developer or DevOps engineer. We also had a student thing where it's like, you're trying to get all the university crowd people, and it's been working phenomen phenomenally. And then actually this, this event, we went, uh, in the other direction as well. We hosted our inaugural CTO summit, which is for senior leadership and end user companies. And the idea is they're discussing topics of technology that are business relevant. So our topic this time was resiliency in multi-cloud and we're producing a research paper about it. That's gonna come out in some weeks. So BA so with, for us, it's about getting everybody under this tent. Right. And, but it will never mean that we deprioritize what we started with, which is the engineering crowd. It's just an expansion >>Stay true to your roots. >>Yes. Well, Prianca, we're going to talk to a lot of those startup communities tomorrow. Ah, tomorrow's coverage. It's all about startups. Why should CTOs, uh, new startups talk to these upstarts of as opposed to some of the bigger players here on the show floor, over 170 sponsoring companies, the show floor has been vibrant engaging. Yes. And we're going to get into that community tomorrow's coverage on the cube from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith Townson, along with Paul Gillon and you're watching the cube, the leader and high tech coverage.

(tubular bells chiming) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage, AWS re:Invent 2021. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE. We're here, get all the action wall-to-wall coverage. The keynotes with the new CEO, Adam Leschi just happened. A lot of action wall-to-wall coverage for days, and we'd love cloud computing because it impacts business. We love all that, but when it impact sports, we love it even more because it can relate to it. You can see the two great guests here from the NHL Formula 1. We got David Lehanski the EVP of business development and innovation at the NHL, Rob Smedley, director of data systems at Formula 1. Gentlemen, thanks for joining me today in theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> So obviously formula one we know is very data driven. Pun intended, NHL has a lot of action going on as well with innovation streaming, et cetera. Let's get into it. You're both Amazon customers, right? We'll start with you. Formula 1, big partnership with AWS. What's that about? how you guys look at this cloud as you guys go to the next level? Cause you're under a lot of pressure with the data, from the cars and standards and all that good stuff. What's up. >> What's going on? >> Well, I mean, you know, it started probably four or five years ago with the acquisition of Liberty media and formula 1, and there was a real drive towards data. There was a real drive towards, you know, unearthing all of the data that we've got, you know, formula 1, arguably probably generates the most data, this most sports data of any sport on the planet. You know, we have car telemetry data, timing data, metadata, image data, you know, we own all the video data, and the audio data of driver radio, tire data, weather data, you put all that together. You got to, you know, a real massive data. And it was just about trying to unearth that and, and engage the fans more. And that's where the partnership with AWS come from. >> And the competitiveness in formula one I know is really high. You got a lot of smart people on these teams looking for an edge. And I know it's like, it's a whole new world with data as things get exposed. So I got to ask you, what is your job? Are you there to like to corral the data that kind of set standards? What's your role? >> Well, my role is essentially, to use the data at central league level, if you want, for all the franchises, that's all 20 drivers, within the 10 teams to try to, you know, use that data in whatever way possible, whether it's the new car or whether it's the F1 insights powered by AWS to try to engage the fans more. You know, we've understood that data, is really important to tell the story of Formula 1. And it's really important to reach different demographics as well. The younger demographics, the young, the gen Zedders is, you know, those types of guys, it's really important to get to them, because you can condense and at one hour 45 race down to five minutes, right. Which is what they want. So this has been a really important step for us. And a really important part of that journey has been the enablement. >> And I can see the whole e-sports thing I could see after a race. Okay. Now the fans race amongst themselves, as the technology simulation gets better, only headroom there. So to speak. >> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what we're, you know, that's probably the next generation of what we want to do with the data is we want to make it much more interactive. We're already giving, you know, through the insights and through, you know, the way that, we're trying to tell stories with the different data assets we're already trying to do that, in a much more proactive way of telling the story. The next level of that. is completely immersive, is interactive. And that's what we call the 21st drivers. So there's 20, formula 1 drivers. Right. But, we want to build systems using the data and gamification where you can embed yourself and immerse yourself in that, in the races, the 21st driver and race against the other guys on a Sunday afternoon. >> Awesome. Dave, let's get to the NHL National Hockey League. You guys are doing a lot of good stuff. You're the EVP of innovation and what's going on over there. How do you see the cloud helping you guys innovate. what's on your agenda and what's your role? >> Wow. I don't know if we have enough time, but at the highest level, you know, we're trying to expand and enhance the way we produce and present our game to the world. You know, our sport, we have some similarities, but there's a lot of differences based on the uniqueness of the sport. Statistics, hadn't really been a big part of the National Hockey League in the way people consume the game. I always say, you know, goaltenders have two statistics that have been used to evaluate them. And they were the same ones that were used to evaluate them back in 1917. So almost again a hundred years where it hasn't really evolved that much, but we think there's so much there that can really enrich and transform the game. So we're trying to partner with AWS and the best technology companies in the world to figure out how we can start to capture that data and turn it into meaningful content and experiences that allow fans to go a little bit deeper and a little bit broader. >> Yeah, I can see the data being used for also seeing what the NFL is doing a lot with the safety. Hits are getting harder and faster in the NHL. I mean, the collisions, the equipment, everyone is going faster. That's a big safety issue too. Isn't it? >> There is a safety component too. And it, look, that is one of the unique things about our sports. Both of us are speed involved. The speed though, for us, it's not just on the ice, it's also the pace of play, right? So when you have a stoppage, it's typically 10 or 15 seconds long. So there's not a lot of time to integrate data, to tell stories, to build and graphics and visualizations. So the first phase for us was to build the tracking system that could capture the positional, the positions of the puck and the players throughout the course of every game. And that's generating a massive amount of new data. Now we're trying to add video to that data so we could start to use it to create entirely new experiences. >> What are you guys thinking about from a fan experience as you look at the analytics. Are they interested in more like the, where the puck is, how fast people are going, what are some of the analytics sharing? >> So it depends, Right? So from a fan standpoint, you know, avid fans really want to, they want to go deep and they want understand controlled zone entries and like, you know, things that are really inherent to, you know, the core factors for determining outcome. Casual fans, they like just on knowing speed, right? How fast is the puck moving? How fast are the players moving. Before we had the system, we weren't able to produce it. Before we had AWS, you won't be able to produce that in real time and overlay it onto a game. So we could go even deeper when it comes to players and coaches and media partners, but the ability to build a solution that works in real time to give them the data and the video that they can use to tell those stories is born from AWS. >> And that brings up a great point. I'd love to ask both of you, if you can answer this question about the fan expectations. One of the big trends coming out of this re-invent this year as cloud is creating more capabilities, but the users and the consumers have new expectations. They want it on mobile, they want the highlights, they want everything. They want the data, there are data junkies. They want everything, cause they're immersing, into the experience with multiple touchpoints. TV, app. Whatever. >> I think that's right. And I think that it's up to, you know, as David's just saying that the two sports here with a lot of similarities and you can see that we're both on the same journey and that's because it's been driven in the end by the consumers, it's been driven by our customers. And, I think that now we're on, you know, what I would call the data flywheel, where there's a lot of inertia and it's just getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And this was, if we go back say three, four years when we started the partnership with AWS and we started to get really deep into the data and understand, you know, what the objectives of this whole exercise were, we always knew that there'd be a point where it started to build a lot of momentum and have a lot of inertia and that's, what's happening now. There's a real thirst for it, right? And it's not just, you know, even the naysayers, you know, even the people that kind of looked at it and went, well, why are you filling my screen with data exactly the same as what Dave says, you know, since you know, the goaltender since 1917, you've used the same two stats to evaluate that particular player. In formula 1 it's been exactly the same. So we started to introduce stuff which had been the same state as core for 70 years. And they say, well, what's all this about. Now, those people can't live without that. Right? It's become, a key part of the broadcast. >> And it creates new products, like things like Netflix, who would've thought a series would be on Formula 1, a soap opera for formula 1 in behind the scenes, driving to survive has been quite an acceleration for fan base. I mean, techies in Silicon valley and all around the world have told us like, hey, you know what? That exposes the nerdiness of Formula 1. Kind of cool. So who would have thought, I mean, there's going to be shows on this whole other level. >> I think, another point to add it is about increasing your distribution points and getting your content out to as many people as possible through as many platforms as possible. But I think in addition to that, it's really about, Rob started to touch on this personalization and customization. What can you do within those platforms to give fans the ability to sort of create their own experience? Right? So data highlights, huge, huge, huge level of importance. >> I think community is going to be a big part of this too. As you start to see the data creates more interactions and more progression, if you will. Community, I'm a Bruins fan in California. There's not a lot of Bruins fans, mostly sharks fans, but I got to get online. Where am I? Where's my tribe. I want to hang, that's not just on Twitter. >> Yeah >> So there's a whole another level coming. How do you guys see community developing in your sports? >> I think the community is the biggest factor in all of this. Right? And it's kind of bringing together. It's a global sports community, first and foremost, but then you've got these pockets. So you've got NHL, NFL, you've got formula 1 and they're all gaining popularity, but it's all through really everybody being on this same journey. Everybody's on this same journey of involving tech in the sport of revolutionizing their particular sport. And it's building this global community. I mean, In formula 1, we've got a billion fans worldwide, but that's growing, it's growing every single year, but it's only growing because we're starting now to get to that younger demographic, formerly one could never get to the demographic, you know, formula 1 fans looked like us, but now it's starting to really improve our system. >> The virtualization of this hybrid world we're living in opens up the doors for more access. >> Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's the key point here. And again, they've touched on it. It's the personalization. It's using data and platforms and packages to personalize somebody's engagement with their particular sport. >> I got a couple of questions from the fan base, I knew you guys were coming on. I want to get to you , first, Rob, how has F1 been using Amazon and the cloud to develop the new 2022 race car? >> Well, I mean, it, I would say it's no exaggeration to say Amazon technology enabled, was the key enabler in as being able to design that 2022 car, you know, we designed it in a virtual environment called computational fluid dynamics. You know, the simulations, when we were first running design iterations, were taking something like 40 hours with when we started running it on the EC2, you know, spinning up 7,000 calls, something like that. We got that down to seven hours, manageable. We designed the whole new car. >> Awesome. On the NHL, the question here for you, is that okay, how is the young generation coming into the game? What's changed with the innovation that's impacting, how the games played and how the young guns are coming up? Is there any in technology enabling that? >> Sure. You know, so we're looking at the type of content that younger fans are gravitating to, obviously highlights and dance games, but we talked about it before the ability to see what they want to see with regard to that. So, you know, where we're trying to get to is where you could watch a game and ultimately decide whether or not you want to turn on a right rail of real-time statistics for your favorite player, for your favorite team, for a specific event, whether or not you want to turn on the ability to network with your friends across social platforms, whether or not you want to turn on the betting functionality, whether or not you want to turn on the game functionality. Right? So this is how the younger generation really wants to consume the data, like sort of, they want to see what they want to see, when and how they want to see it. So we're working on that. And then there's everything that goes beyond that. The world of NFTs and VR and AR and alternate forms of content distribution, none of that would be capable or available if not for the ability to capture process and distribute data and video in an aggregate in real time. >> You know, I really think we're onto something so new here. And if you guys are really kind of illustrating the whole point of how being in person, the old model of physical, I don't have to go into arena to watch hockey or go watch formula 1, and hopefully it's on TV. Maybe it's got coverage here and there, but now with hybrid, you can integrate the experiences from the physical in-person where the asset is. >> Absolutely. >> And to virtual and just open up completely new hybrid use cases. I mean, this is brand new. There's no standards. >> Not, exactly. And that's something that we're really starting to look at, which is the event of the future. You know? So how would you bring, how do you mismatch? How would you bring that whole data experience and that whole broadcast experience to the actual event, the live event, and how would you bring the live event to somebody's front room? It's the hybrid model, right? And this is definitely next generation of how we're using the data. We're working with AWS. We're calling it event of the future. It's really, really exciting. I mean, you can imagine going there, to a formula 1 race, you're sat in the stands. You're no longer, you know, watching a car pass every few seconds and wondering what's going on. You've now got AR, VR that you can kind of put up and lay-up across what's going on the track. >> Well, a lot of people would love to get you guys' reaction to this comment online. Cause this is big, I see a lot of naysayers out there because they're so locked into the business model of the physical location. There's a lot of investment in events like this, wants me to buy tickets and show up. So they call it a one-way door here in the industry, they don't want to go through that one way door, but I'm saying that door has already been passed. It's like you're in this hybrid world is here. If you don't get out in front of it, you're going to be toast. So the question is, how do you guys think about this when you talk about the business model of experience? Cause you have to get in there and it's not super great right now on virtual. It could be better. It has to get better. So it's a balance. How do you guys talk about that in your respective fields to educate the potential? I won't say naysayers, but yeah. >> Yeah no, no, no. So we believe it wholeheartedly. You know, when you think about the inner arena experience, there's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be in place to be able to deliver those types of experiences to fans, while they're in the building, we wholeheartedly believe that the people who are paying the most to see our games should get the best possible experience. So there should be no replay, they don't get, there should be no game that they can't access, no application that they couldn't have on their phone, but you need to have, you know, fairly advanced wireless in the arena infrastructures in place. You need to have a lot of cloud infrastructure and services there. So, you know, that's why we're leveraging Kinesis and SageMaker and AWS elemental services to get all of it condensed, operating in the cloud and distributed. So if you're a fan at a game, they're 18,000 other people, like you trying to access a mobile phone to place a bet on a real-time event that just happened, you can actually do it, but a lot needs to go into that. >> Yeah, that's really good insight because what you're pointing out is is that the physical location is the first party asset. That's the key. You build on that, invest in that and then feed it out into the next world and then figure that out. Do you agree with that. >> Absolutely. 100 percent correct. Well, 100 percent agree with everything that David just said. And we've got probably, you know, an even bigger challenge because we've got these 20 sites where we lift and shift 20, 23 races, you know, all round the world where we lift and shift every couple of weeks, and they're not arenas either. They're, you know, these are huge sites. These are you know, five, six kilometer by five, six kilometer square sites. So trying to do everything that David just said in that space, we can open it. >> Yeah, we just turn the lights off, it's over, he's got to pack it all up. >> The private 5G is going to totally help. You can run drones and have full blanket coverage over the location. That's good. That's good stuff. Final question for you guys on data, because I think this is something that we've been kind of talking about on theCUBE over the past year, we see open source software has become a huge success. Do you guys see opening up the data to your fan base and seeing e-sports races in formula 1, is just going crazy. Everyone loves it. It's not there yet but the equipment having your own car in your living room, but it's close, pretty close, it's there. Opening up the data, how do you see that potential? Because there are people who want to maybe code on top of it. How do you guys view that? >> Well, I think it, has to, I mean, Dave, again, touched on this earlier when he talked about, you know, the difference between the casual and the avid. The avid, you'll never, ever satisfy the average thirst for data, right. They want to do what I did and sit on a pit wall and manage a grand Prix team. And that's great, you know, it shouldn't just be for a privilege, you know, 10, 20 people in the world to do that. We should be able to give everybody that experience because we have the technology and the ability and the know how to be able to do that. And that's where, you know, again, partnership with AWS, where we're talking about something called the virtual pit wall. So, you know, the pit stands where it's kind of like the mission control. We want to be able to bring that to the average. And it's just getting deeper and deeper layers where you can set up your bespoke environment. You can set it up just as if you were a race engineer or a team strategist, one of those guys, and you can just get deeper and deeper. And then you start to lay over that. You start to build your own models. We bring in simulation into that whole area. And, you know, it's exactly the same as what you have in the teams. You just go deeper and deeper and deeper. >> What's it like to be on the pit wall there, managing teams. what's it. (men laughing) >> Hmm scary sometimes >> Nerve wrecking. >> Nerve-wracking, I mean, I talked about, you know, the gen Zedders who want the, you know, a two hour race to pass in five minutes, it passes in five minutes. Cause there's so much going on. You know, it's kind of like being the coach or the, you know, the football manager, you know, you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to make the right decisions. You've got to, you know, you've got to make decisions in split seconds. Everybody's an expert 10 seconds after the decision has been made. It's that type of thing, but it's great fun, you know. >> I can see virtual Formula 1 being a hot total hit because with all the data and now autonomous vehicles, you can almost have a collective kind of team approach, like swapping out AI in the cars in real time from the virtual pit. >> Yeah. And again, you know, I'm just going to name check deep racer because you know, AWS deep racer, you know, we formula 1, and AWS deep racer. We did an activation about a year back in the first lockdown, in the first COVID lockdown. So we took a couple of formula 1 drivers, Daniel Ricardo being one of them. And then we built out this deep racer platform and we're trying to look at how we can bring that more, you know, more together. So you've got this virtual, sorry, this AI car, this autonomous car, and you've got formula 1. And how do we merge those two worlds together? And again, that's just trying to immerse people more in the experience. >> Alright, final question. What's the coolest thing you got going on in each of your respective innovation fields with AWS? What would you highlight your favorite innovation or coolest thing you're doing? >> Well, I can't tell you about the coolest, right. That's for sure. Look, I just think what we're doing with AWS with regard to AIML around data and statistics analytics, based on what I said earlier, the evolution of statistics and analytics and hockey really hasn't taken hold, we're there now. The ability to really take a game that's has so much volatility, and we're the only professional teams sport that has personnel changes occurring in life play. So you never really know who's on the ice and the ability now to deliver real-time graphics and visualizations in the broadcast based on movements that had just played within milliseconds. And, we're starting to do that today with shot and save analytics with AWS. So where that can go in the future is really, what's probably the most exciting because it'll totally transform the way fans consumer our game. >> The NHS has always been on the cutting edge on the tech. Been following you guys for years, congratulations. Rob, the coolest thing you're working on, from Amazon, that's cool, and in formula 1 that's in your plate right now. >> Do you know what, I mean, there's so much going on at the minute. It's really difficult to choose any one thing. I think the whole partnership it's everything that we wanted it to be that, you know, the whole way that we're moving data forward and where we're revolutionizing this sport in a lot of ways, you know, sport has sat still for a long time. And to go through that digital transformation, you know, with Amazon and you know, in all the various areas that we're working on, I just think it's all, you know, it's all really, really cool. I mean, it's just moving forward at such a pace. Now. >> If you don't mind me asking why I got you here on the whole data thing, I'm just thinking about if I was on a team, I'd be like, okay, there's a whole new wild west. It's this arbitrage of data, we'll get over on the other team. Do you have to watch out, do you guys talk about like watching teams actually, I mean, it's actually innovative that they can get an edge, but an unfair advantage if they actually had used the data, is there like discussion around, like who can use the data, which teams? >> Of course. I mean, you know, when you get down to the franchises, each team can only use its individual data. You know, that's where we have key insight up at the league level because we've got, you know, a subset of all of the teams data. So we can kind of see everything that's going on. >> And watch out for the hackers coming in and get that data. >> Oh, well, alright, we've got pretty good security. >> Guys, thanks for coming on. I love the sports angle on this. It's really awesome. I think this is a great example of how cloud and digital lifestyle is coming together. The tech integration with the fan experience and the business models are super compelling, and I think that's illustration to just every other business. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Awesome. >> Thank you. >> Okay so theCUBE's coverage here at AWS re:Invent. I'm John furrier, your host in theCUBE. You're watching the leader in event tech covers theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soul music)

>>Hello, and welcome back to the cubes coverage of splunk.com here in the virtual studios in Silicon valley broadcasting around the world's a virtual event. Um, John four-year host of the queue. We've got a great guest, Zach brown, chief executive officer of McLaren racing, really looking forward to this interview, Zach, welcome to the queue. Well, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. So we have a huge fan base in the tech community. A lot of geeks love the neurons. They love the tech behind the sport. Uh, and Netflix is driving to survive. Series has absolutely catapulted the popularity of F1 in the tech community. So congratulations on all the success in that program and on, and then on the >>Thank you very much, it's been a, it's been a good run. We've won our first race in a while, but we still have a ways to go to get in that, uh, world championship that, uh, >>So for the techies out there and the folks in our audience that aren't familiar with, the specifics of the racing team and the dynamics, take a minute to explain what you guys do. >>Uh, so McLaren racing, uh, which has a variety of, uh, racing teams, uh, a formula one team in indie car team and extremely team and an e-sports team. Uh, we're the second most successful form of the one team in the history of sport. Now 183 wins 182, uh, when I joined 20 world championships and, uh, we're, we're close to a thousand people to, to run a couple of racing cars and, uh, currently third in the championship, uh, with Lando Norris and, uh, Daniel, Ricardo. >>So talk about the, um, the, the dynamics of the spore. Obviously data is big part of it. Uh, we see the, a lot of the coverage. You can see anything can happen overnight. It's very quick. Um, technology has been being, uh, playing a big role in sport. What's your vision on how that's evolving? Are you happy with where things are, uh, and where do you see it going? >>Yeah, it does some interesting stats. So, um, the car that qualifies first at the beginning of the year, if you didn't touch, it would be last by the end of the year. So that's the pace of a development of a, of a formula one car. We change a, uh, and develop a new part on the car every 14 minutes, 365 days, days a year. Um, and technology plays a huge role. Uh, it's, it's probably the most technical, um, evolved sport in the world. Uh, both safety data, uh, the innovation it's it's awesome. And what a lot of people don't know is a lot of what we develop in a formula. One car ends up in other parts of the world, whether it was a ventilators that we helped develop for the UK government, uh, to working with our, uh, various partners or safety and innovation in the automotive industry. >>You know, I love it. I always loved the IOT internet of things, story around cars, because sensors or instrumentation is a big part of it. Um, and it all comes together. So it's pretty, it's not simple. No, give it feel, give it a taste a little bit about what's it. How complicated is it, how you guys pay attention to the details? What's important. Take us through some of the, some of the inside the ropes around the IOT of the sensors and all the data. >>Yeah. So we have over 300 sensors on our race car. We collect the one and a half terabytes of data. Every race weekend, we have a thousand people, um, and the strong majority of those are working around data and technology, as opposed to physically touching the car out of those thousand people, you probably only have about 60 or 70. They're actually touch the race card at a race weekend. We've been doing connected cars for about 25 years. So that's kind of a new thing here to, to most people, but we've been communicating back and forth with our race car for, for decades all around the world. And what a lot of people don't realize is it all starts in our mission control back in our factory in Woking, England. So wherever we are around the world, the racing team actually starts in England. >>So I want to ask you about the personalities on the team. How big is the staff? What's the makeup of the personnel has to get the drivers. They're critical. They're a very dynamic personalities. We'll come to the side question on that later, but what's the staff look like on when you guys put this together. So you get, you get race day and you got back office support. >>What's the team look like? Yeah. So you've got about a thousand people that, that make up the collective team. You'll have about a hundred in marketing. Uh, you'll have about a hundred in finance, HR, and then you kind of get to the, the racing team. If you'd like 800 people, you have about a hundred people traveling to each race, uh, about 50 people back at the factory, working with data and communications that are grand Prix weekend. And then everybody else is designing manufacturing, production laminating. So we run 24, 7 shifts, uh, three shifts, uh, in certain parts. Uh, we develop, uh, 85% of the car changes of what's allowed to be changed start of the year to the, the end of the year. So the development is, is unbelievable. >>I know you're here in the U S for the U S grand Prix in Austin. Um, coming up, I'm just curious how cars get transported. >>Uh, w when we're traveling around the world, uh, they, they travel on 7 47 and are flown around the world. And then when we're in Europe, we have about 18 trucks that were communing around when we're kind of in the European part of the circuit is usually in the middle of the year. But when we're going to Australia or Singapore, Bahrain, those are, those are on planes form of the one actually does that. They give us an allocation of, of space, and then we have to write a check if we need more space than where >>Yeah. We're allowed. Yeah. And that brings up the security question, because honestly, there's a lot of fans, a lot of people are into it. Also, this potentially security risks. Have you guys thought about that obviously like physical moving the supply chain around from event event, but also technology risk. Um, how do you guys think about security? >>Yeah, it's, it's critically important. We've had, uh, fortunately we've not had any breach of our technology. We have had a breach in the late nineties of our radio communications and, uh, it was in Australia, Mika Hakkinen and a fan, uh, who I think was probably having some fun and were able to break into our radio channel and actually asked Mika to pit. He pitted team wasn't ready. And fortunately, we will run in one, two, but we actually had to reverse the drivers. So security is >>Critically important, probably Katie Scrivener, and they all look, I just hack the radio, was talking to the driver. That is a funny story, but it could be serious. I mean, now you have all kinds of >>The stuff going on and, and, you know, there's a lot of money at stake, you know, so, you know, we're fortunate in this particular instance, it didn't hurt us cause we were running one, two, so we could reverse the drivers and the right guide one. Um, but you know, that could decide, uh, a world championship and you have, you know, tens of millions of dollars online, but even besides the economics, we want to win races. >>You know, what's funny is that you guys have a lot of serious on the line stakes with these races, but you're known for having a lot of fun, the team team dynamic. I have to ask you, when you finish on the podium one and two, there's a Shui with the drivers. How'd that go down. It was pretty, pretty a big spectacle online and >>Yeah, it was, it was good, fun. That's something, obviously Daniel Ricardo is kind of developed as his thing when he, uh, when he wins. And, uh, when we were, uh, before we went on the podium, he said to me, you're going to do the shoe. Yes, of course. In the car show you got to do, we have to like a bunch of 12 year old kids, uh, on the podium, but that's where we're just big kids going, motor racing and >>The end of the day. Well, I gotta say you guys come across really strong as a team, and I love the fun and, you know, competitive side. So congratulations on that, I think is good on the competitive side, take me through the advantage, driving the advantage with data, because that's really the theme here at.com, which is Splunk, which they're a big partner, as well as your other sponsors. Data's big, you know, and it's striving an advantage. Where do you see that coming from? Take us through where you guys see the advantages. Yes. >>So, you know, everything we do is, is precision and, you know, every second, every 10th counts and, um, you know, you can get all this data in, but what do you do with this data? And the humans can, uh, real, uh, react as quickly as is, you know, people like Splunk who can help us, uh, not only collect data, but help us understand data. And, um, you know, typically there's one pit stop, which can be the difference between winning and losing. Um, you have all these different scenarios playing out with weather with tire wear competition. And so, you know, we live by data. We didn't, uh, when, in, in Russia, when we, uh, could have, and it was because we got a bit emotionally caught up in the excitement of trying to win the race instead of staying disciplined and focused on, on data. And so it's a very data-driven sport when I'm on the pit wall, there's a thing called racer instinct, which is my 30 years in the sport. And, uh, your experience and your kind of your gut to make decisions. And every time our team makes a decision that I'm sitting there going, I'm not sure that was the right decision. They're staring at data. I'm not, I'm trusting my 30 years of experience. They'd beat me nine out of 10. >>Yeah. I mean, you know, this is a huge topic too, in the industry, explainable AI is one of the hottest trends in computer science where there's so much algorithms involved. The gut instinct is now coming back. What algorithms are available, knowing when to deploy what algorithms or what data to pay attention to is a huge new gut factor. Yep. Can you explain how the young drivers and the experience folks in the industry are dealing with this new instinct full data-driven? >>Yeah. That's, you know, that's what we have 50 people back at the factory doing, and they're looking at all sorts of information coming in, and then they're taking that information and they're feeding it to our head of strategy. Who's then feeding it to our racing director. Who's getting all these data points in from tire to performance, to reliability, and then the human data from both drivers coming through their engineers. And then he gets all that information in. He has to process it immediately and make decisions, but it's, it's a data-driven sport. >>I saw Lando walking around, got a selfie with them. It's great. Everyone's loving it on Twitter. My family, like get an autograph, the future of the sport. He's a young young driver. So that instincts coming in the future sport comes up all the time. The tires are a big discussion point, but also you've got a lot of presets going on, a lot of data, a lot of going on and you see the future where there's remote, you know, kind of video game you're in the pit wall and you can make decisions and deploy on behalf of the drivers. Is that something that >>Well, that technology is there and we used to do that, but now it's been outlawed because there's a real push to make sure the drivers are driving the car. So that technology is here. It has been deployed in the past. We could do it, but we're trying to find as a sport, the balance between, you know, letting the driver do it. So he, or she might make a mistake and a little bit of excitement to it. So, um, we now there are certain protocols on what we communicate. Um, we can't, um, everything has to be driver fed into the car. So we can now you'll hear all sorts of codes that we're talking through, which there are, um, about 300 different adjustments the driver can make on the steering wheel, which is unbelievable. And so that's us seeing information, getting data in coming to conclusions that we're giving him or her information that we think will help make the car >>A lot of new dimensions for drivers to think about when they're being successful with the gut, that the track data everything's kind of coming together. >>Yeah. It's amazing. Um, when you listen to these drivers on the radio, you forget that they're going 200 plus miles an hour. Cause they sound quite relaxed in this very, you know, open and easy communication of here's what I'm feeling with. Again, we're talking all these codes and then we all, because we can hear each other, there's a lot of trickery that goes on. So for a driver to be going to turn a miles an hour, taking this information and then know what code we're talking, are we kind of throwing a code out there to put the competition off is pretty amazing that they can take this all in. >>You know, I wish I was younger again, like we're old school and the younger generation, I was having a few conversations with a lot of the young audience. They wanted me to ask you, when are you guys going to metaverse the tracks? When can I get involved and participate and maybe even make the team, or how do I become more active, engaged with the McLaren racing team? >>And that technology is almost, we're actually, um, that's in development. So I, I think it won't be long before, you know, Sunday you can log on, uh, and, and race Lando around Monaco and be in the race. So that, that technology is around the corner. >>That's the shadow thing to developing. I see that. E-sports just quick. I know you've got to go on, but last minute we have here, e-sports, what's the future of e-sports with the team, >>But e-sports been great for the sport. You know, it's gone from, you know, when I was growing up, it was video games and now it's real simulation. And, uh, so we've held, I think we're going four years into it. Now we were the first team to really develop any sports platform and we've had competitors go on to help us with our simulation. So it's, it's real racially developed the race car before it goes on the racetrack it's in simulation. And that's where e-sports, >>And this is the new advantage. This is a new normal, this is where you guys see the data driving. The >>Definitely. And I think the other thing it is, you know, somewhat stick and ball sports, you can play in school. And motor racing has historically been partying, which can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now with e-sports you have a less expensive platform to let young men and women around the world, but a steering wheel in their hand and go motor racing. So I think it's also going to kind of bring that younger generation of fan and >>There's so much collective intelligence, potentially competitive advantage data. Again, data coming up final word to end the segment, Splunk, big partner on the data side, obviously helping you guys financially, as well as you do need some sponsorship support to make the team run. Um, what's the relationship with Splunk? Take a minute to talk about the plug. >>It's been a, it's been great, you know, they're, they're two big contributors. We need a lot of money to run the racing team. So they're a great partner in that respect, but more importantly, they're helping us with our whole data journey, making smarter, quicker decisions. So their contribution to being part of the race team. And, uh, we used our technology. Um, it has been great. And I think, um, you know, if I look at our technology partners, uh, we have many that all contribute to making a >>Yeah. I mean, it really is nice. It's data inaction, it's teamwork, it's competitive, it's fun. That's kind of a good, good, >>I think fun is the center of everything that we do. It's the center of everything spunk does. Cause I think if you have fun, people enjoy going to working a little bit harder. We're seven days a week. And uh, you know, a lot of teammates you've got to work well together. So I think if you're having fun, you enjoy what you're doing and it doesn't feel like work. >>Congratulations on climbing up in the rankings and everything on your team. Two great drivers. Thanks for coming on the cube. We appreciate it. Thank you. All right. We're here. The key. We like to have fun here and get all the action on the tech side. Honestly, F1 is technology enabled data, driving the advantage and driving to is a great Netflix series. Check it out. McLaren's featured heavily in there and got a great team. Zach brown Siegel. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. I'm sure for your host. Thank you for watching.

>> Well, hello everybody, John Walls here on theCUBE and continuing our coverage. So splunk.com for 21, you know, we talk about big data these days, you realize the importance of speed, right? We all get that, but certainly Formula One Racing understands speed and big data, a really neat marriage there. And with us to talk about that is James Hodge, who was the global vice president and chief strategy officer international at Splunk. James, good to see it today. Thanks for joining us here on theCUBE. >> Thank you, John. Thank you for having me and yeah, the speed of McLaren. Like I'm, I'm all for it today. >> Absolutely. And I find it interesting too, that, that you were telling me before we started the interview that you've been in Splunk going on nine years now. And you remember being at splunk.com, you know, back in the past other years and watching theCUBE and here you are! you made it. >> I know, I think it's incredible. I love watching you guys every single year and kind of the talk that guests. And then more importantly, like it reminds me of conf for every time we see theCUBE, no matter where you are, it reminds me of like this magical week there's dot com for us. >> Well, excellent. I'm glad that we could be a part of it at once again and glad you're a part of it here on theCUBE. Let's talk about McLaren now and the partnership, obviously on the racing side and the e-sports side, which is certainly growing in popularity and in demand. So just first off characterize for our audience, that relationship between Splunk and McLaren. >> Well, so we started the relationship almost two years ago. And for us it was McLaren as a brand. If you think about where they were, they recently, I think it's September a Monza. They got a victory P1 and P2. It was over 3200 days since their last victory. So that's a long time to wait. I think of that. There's 3000 days of continual business transformation, trying to get them back up to the grid. And what we found was that ethos, the drive to digital the, the way they're completely changing things, bringing in kind of fluid dynamics, getting people behind the common purpose that really seem to fit the Splunk culture, what we're trying to do and putting data at the heart of things. So kind of Formula One and McLaren, it felt a really natural place to be. And we haven't really looked back since we started at that partnership. It's been a really exciting last kind of 18 months, two years. >> Well, talk a little bit about, about the application here a little bit in terms of data cars, the, the Formula One cars, the F1 cars, they've got hundreds of sensors on them. They're getting, you know, hundreds of thousands or a hundred thousand data points almost instantly, right? I mean, there's this constant processing. So what are those inputs basically? And then how has McLaren putting them to use, and then ultimately, how is Splunk delivering on that from McLaren? >> So I learned quite a lot, you know, I'm, I'm, I been a childhood Formula One fan, and I've learned so much more about F1 over the last kind of couple of years. So it actually starts with the car going out on the track, but anyone that works in the IT function, the car can not go out on track and less monitoring from the car actually is being received by the garage. It's seen as mission critical safety critical. So IT, when you see a car out and you see the race engineer, but that thumbs up the mechanical, the thumbs up IT, get their vote and get to put the thumbs up before the car goes out on track there around about 300 sensors on the car in practice. And there were two sites that run about 120 on race day that gets streamed on a two by two megabits per second, back to the FIA, the regulating body, and then gets streams to the, the garage where they have a 32 unit rack near two of them that have all of their it equipment take that data. They then stream it over the internet over the cloud, back to the technology center in working where 32 race engineers sit in calm conditions to be able to go and start to make decisions on when the car should pit what their strategy should be like to then relate that back to the track side. So you think about that data journey alone, that is way more complicated and what you see on TV, you know, the, the race energy on the pit wall and the driver going around at 300 kilometers an hour. When we look at what Splunk is doing is making sure that is resilient. You know, is the data coming off the car? Is it actually starting to hit the garage when it hits that rack into the garage, other than streaming that back with the right latency back to the working technology center, they're making sure that all of the support decision-making tools there are available, and that's just what we do for them on race weekend. And I'll give you one kind of the more facts about the car. So you start the beginning of the season, they launched the car. The 80% of that car will be different by the end of the season. And so they're in a continual state of development, like constantly developing to do that. So they're moving much more to things like computational fluid dynamics applications before the move to wind tunnel that relies on digital infrastructure to be able to go and accelerate that journey and be able to go make those assumptions. That's a Splunk is becoming the kind of underpinning of to making sure those mission critical applications and systems are online. And that's kind of just scratching the surface of kind of the journey with McLaren. >> Yeah. So, so what would be an example then maybe on race day, what's a stake race day of an input that comes in and then mission control, which I find fascinating, right? You've got 32 different individuals processing this input and then feeding their, their insights back. Right. And so adjustments are being made on the fly very much all data-driven what would be an example of, of an actual application of some information that came in that was quickly, you know, recorded, noted, and then acted upon that then resulted in an improved performance? >> Well, the most important one is pit stop strategy. It can be very difficult to overtake on track. So starting to look at when other teams go into the pit lane and when they come out of the, the pit lane is incredibly important because it gives you a choice. Do you stay also in your current set of tires and hope to kind of get through that team and kind of overtake them, or do you start to go into the pits and get your fresh sets of tires to try and take a different strategy? There are three people in mission control that have full authority to go and make a Pit lane call. And I think like the thing that really resonated for me from learning about McLaren, the technology is amazing, but it's the organizational constructs on how they turn data into an action is really important. People with the right knowledge and access to the data, have the authority to make a call. It's not the team principle, it's not the person on the pit wall is the person with the most amount of knowledge is authorized and kind of, it's an open kind of forum to go and make those decisions. If you see something wrong, you are just as likely to be able to put your hand up and say, something's wrong here. This is my, my decision than anyone else. And so when we think about all these organizations that are trying to transform the business, we can learn a lot from Formula One on how we delegate authority and just think of like technology and data as the beginning of that journey. It's the people in process that F1 is so well. >> We're talking a lot about racing, but of course, McLaren is also getting involved in e-sports. And so people like you like me, we can have that simulated experience to gaming. And I know that Splunk has, is migrating with McLaren in that regard. Right. You know, you're partnering up. So maybe if you could share a little bit more about that, about how you're teaming up with McLaren on the e-sports side, which I'm sure anybody watching this realizes there's a, quite a big market opportunity there right now. >> It's a huge market opportunity is we got McLaren racing has, you know, Formula One, IndyCar and now extreme E and then they have the other branch, which is e-sports so gaming. And one of the things that, you know, you look at gaming, you know, we were talking earlier about Ted Lasso and, you know, the go to the amazing game of football or soccer, depending on kind of what side of the Atlantic you're on. I can go and play something like FIFA, you know, the football game. I can be amazing at that. I have in reality, you know, in real life I have two left feet. I am never going to be good at football however, what we find with e-sports is it makes gaming and racing accessible. I can go and drive the same circuits as Lando Norris and Daniel Ricardo, and I can improve. And I can learn like use data to start to discover different ways. And it's an incredibly expanding exploding industry. And what McLaren have done is they've said, actually, we're going to make a professional racing team, an e-sports team called the McLaren Shadow team. They have this huge competition called the Logitech KeyShot challenge. And when we looked at that, we sort of lost the similarities in what we're trying to achieve. We are quite often starting to merge the physical world and the digital world with our customers. And this was an amazing opportunity to start to do that with the McLaren team. >> So you're creating this really dynamic racing experience, right? That, that, that gives people like me, or like our viewers, the opportunity to get even a better feel for, for the decision-making and the responsiveness of the cars and all that. So again, data, where does that come into play there? Now, What, what kind of inputs are you getting from me as a driver then as an amateur driver? And, and how has that then I guess, how does it express in the game or expressed in, in terms of what's ahead of me to come in a game? >> So actually there are more data points that come out of the F1 2021 Codemasters game than there are in Formula One car, you get a constant stream. So the, the game will actually stream out real telemetry. So I can actually tell your tire pressures from all of your tires. I can see the lateral G-Force longitudinal. G-Force more importantly for probably amateur drivers like you and I, we can see is the tire on asphalt, or is it maybe on graphs? We can actually look at your exact position on track, how much accelerator, you know, steering lock. So we can see everything about that. And that gets pumped out in real time, up to 60 Hertz. So a phenomenal amount of information, what we, when we started the relationship with McLaren, Formula One super excited or about to go racing. And then at Melbourne, there's that iconic moment where one of the McLaren team tested positive and they withdrew from the race. And what we found was, you know, COVID was starting and the Formula One season was put on hold. The FIA created this season and called i can't remember the exact name of it, but basically a replica e-sports gaming F1 series. We're using the game. Some of the real drivers like Lando, heavy gamer was playing in the game and they'd run that the same as race weekends. They brought celebrity drivers in there. And I think my most surreal zoom call I ever was on was with Lando Norris and Pierre Patrick Aubameyang, who was who's the arsenal football captain, who was the guest driver in the series to drive around Monaco and Randy, the head of race strategy as McLaren, trying to coach him on how to go drive the car, what we ended up with data telemetry coming from Splunk. And so Randy could look out here when he pressing the accelerator and the brake pedal. And what was really interesting was Lando was watching how he was entering corners on the video feed and intuitively kind of coming to the same conclusions as Randy. So kind of, you could see that race to intuition versus the real stats, and it was just incredible experience. And it really shows you, you know, racing, you've got that blurring of the physical and the virtual that it's going to be bigger and bigger and bigger. >> So to hear it here, as I understand what you were just saying now, the e-sports racing team actually has more data to adjust its performance and to modify its behaviors, then the real racing team does. Yep. >> Yeah, it completely does. So what we want to be able to do is turn that into action. So how do you do the right car setup? How do you go and do the right practice laps actually have really good practice driver selection. And I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of what really could be done. And the amazing part about this is now think of it more like a digital twin, what we learn on e-sports we can actually say we've learned something really interesting here, and then maybe a low, you know, if we get something wrong, it may be doesn't matter quite as much as maybe getting an analytics wrong on race weekend. >> Right. >> So we can actually start to look and improve through digital and then start to move that support. That's over to kind of race weekend analytics and supporting the team. >> If I could, you know, maybe pun intended here, shift gears a little bit before we run out of time. I mean, you're, you're involved on the business side, you know, you've got, you know, you're in the middle east Africa, right? You've got, you know, quite an international portfolio on your plate. Now let's talk about just some of the data trends there for our viewers here in the U S who maybe aren't as familiar with what's going on overseas, just in terms of, especially post COVID, you know, what, what concerns there are, or, or what direction you're trying to get your clients to, to be taking in terms of getting back to work in terms of, you know, looking at their workforce opportunities and strengths and all those kinds of things. >> I think we've seen a massive shift. I think we've seen that people it's not good enough just to be storing data its how do you go and utilize that data to go and drive your business forwards I think a couple of key terms we're going to see more and more over the next few years is operational resilience and business agility. And I'd make the assertion that operational resilience is the foundation for the business agility. And we can dive into that in a second, but what we're seeing take the Netherlands. For example, we run a survey last year and we found that 87% of the respondents had created new functions to do with data machine learning and AI, as all they're trying to do is go and get more timely data to front line staff to go. And next that the transformation, because what we've really seen through COVID is everything is possible to be digitized and we can experiment and get to market faster. And I think we've just seen in European markets, definitely in Asia Pacific is that the kind of brand loyalty is potentially waning, but what's the kind of loyalty is just to an experience, you know, take a ride hailing app. You know, I get to an airport, I try one ride hailing app. It tells me it's going to be 20 minutes before a taxi arrives. I'm going to go straight to the next app to go and stare. They can do it faster. I want the experience. I don't necessarily want the brand. And we're find that the digital experience by putting data, the forefront of that is really accelerating and actually really encouraging, you know, France, Germany are actually ahead of UK. Let's look, listen, their attitudes and adoption to data. And for our American audience and America, America is more likely, I think it's 72% more likely to have a chief innovation officer than the rest of the world. I think I'm about 64% in EMEA. So America, you are still slightly ahead of us in terms of kind of bringing some of that innovation that. >> I imagine that gap is going to be shrinking though I would think. >> It is massively shrinking. >> So before we, we, we, we are just a little tight on time, but I want to hear about operational resilience and, and just your, your thought that definition, you know, define that for me a little bit, you know, put a little more meat on that bone, if you would, and talk about why, you know, what that is in, in your thinking today and then why that is so important. >> So I think inputting in, in racing, you know, operational resilience is being able to send some response to what is happening around you with people processing technology, to be able to baseline what your processes are and the services you're providing, and be able to understand when something is not performing as it should be, what we're seeing. Things like European Union, in financial services, or at the digital operational resilience act is starting to mandate that businesses have to be operational in resilient service, monitoring fraud, cyber security, and customer experience. And what we see is really operational resilience is the amount of change that can be absorbed before opportunities become risk. So having a stable foundation of operational resilience allows me to become a more agile business because I know my foundation and people can then move and adjust quickly because I have the awareness of my environment and I have the ability to appropriately react to my environment because I've thought about becoming a resilient business with my digital infrastructure is a theme. I think we're going to see in supply chain coming very soon and across all other industries, as we realize digital is our business. Nowadays. >> What's an exciting world. Isn't it, James? That you're, that you're working in right now. >> Oh, I, I love it. You know, you said, you know, eight and an eight and a half years, nine years at Splunk, I'm still smiling. You know, it is like being at the forefront of this diesel wave and being able to help people make action from that. It's an incredible place to be. I, is liberating and yeah, I can't even begin to imagine what's, you know, the opportunities are over the next few years as the world continually evolves. >> Well, every day is a school day, right? >> It is my favorite phrase >> I knew that. >> And it is, James Hodge. Thanks for joining us on theCUBE. Glad to have you on finally, after being on the other side of the camera, it's great to have you on this side. So thanks for making that transition for us. >> Thank you, John. You bet James Hodge joining us here on the cube coverage of splunk.com 21, talking about McLaren racing team speed and Splunk.

>>from around the globe. >>It's the cube >>With digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cube coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube ricardo for lenses here with me is the global managing director for IBM at Citigroup recorded. Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You're the team leader for Citigroup Managing Director um, a lot going on in the world of finance, Fintech technology, scale transformation. All this is happening. Always a leading edge indicator give us your perspective on the market right now on the, on that vertical and in general because there's so much scale is so much machine learning, so much going on, so much competitive advantages. Give us an overview of the industry, how you see them. >>So john I had the good fortune of working essentially around the world of work in europe in Asia in Australia, back here in north America. And I'll tell you what, there are some, some uh, dynamics are specific to a market. There are also a lot of common threads, right? You know, a lot of common threads right? As you know, my industry, financial services in the middle of uh great disruption right from payments to a global wealth to understand exactly. Not to reposition yourself is a, is a startup. Oftentimes looking time to be dis intimidated by many of the context. I have found that many financial institutions are very adept, a change in the way they operate a lot more nimble than they had been in the past. And they found ways to incorporate a lot of the techniques that some of the Frontex operate with. So they all have shark tanks, they all find a way to uh progress investments that they get to a point of uh, failing fast, right, more are some more adept than others. But for the most part, I'd say that everyone in the market is looking to beef up their, their core competences. >>And, you know, the financial, um, industry has never been shy of using technology ever. They've always poured it on. They always want to get more edge. Um, what's your, what is the edge now in the industry for, um, financial and, and in general, businesses who were learning how to be agile? What's the edge? >>I think the edges really finding a way to be ambidextrous, right? Because in many respects that you don't want to hold on to a franchise to what got you to a level of success. It's oftentimes it's in the case of my client is to be in good stead for more than 100 years, Right? So you don't want to let that go. But you also want to grow a new set of skills and grow competences that they need to take into the future. I have found that in many respects that many of my clients are remind me of what lookers and one said maybe 2025 years ago, our former Ceo and chairman, who said the last thing that IBM needs is a strategy. In fact, I think that many of our financial institutions that don't need a strategy, they just need the competences to innovate and executed scale and it's a lot easier said than that >>card. I want to get your perspective before we move on to some of the initiatives and work at city, which is probably compelling. But I want to get your expert opinion on a question that comes up all the time with customers and that are going post pandemic and looking at growth strategies. The idea of the unit economics of their business models tend to change with more data, more digital acceleration. Is there any observations that you could share for leaders who are looking to get that financial mindset or how the business is changing with whether it's copies or business models. Because at the end of the day, the financial upside of what we're seeing with digital is pretty significant. The economics are seem to be a real game changer on these, these conversations about acceleration, but also the results are business results are money. >>Absolutely, john, as a matter of fact, that I'd argue that while it's true that the common theme, so many and that several of our financial institutions are growing a skill in, in a, in a uh, approaching problems in a different fashion is also true that there's been a lot of redistribution of wealth across financial enterprises, Right? So it's not lost on all of us. Right. The security look at market globalization of the financial institutions, on the work. They really come all over the place with the clear winners in several sectors, site in Asia and europe as quality of North America. So what I argue is that while I think we're all tired of hearing the data is the new oil, right? It's also true that we need to find a way to finally harness the power of it. Right? And that's what I think IBM is more more adept at, right, argue that many of the common threads that we've seen across the financial institutions and back to the, to the measures of success you would indicate in a minute ago, not really around cloud, right around data and around digital transformation. Right? So our approach to cloud, for instance is unique, right? While there are a number of uh very competent hyper scholars, we've taken a different approach to it, right? We've taken our approach is more than after other highly specialized regulated workloads, right. Organ after the layer that allows you to port application seamlessly based on regulation costs and competition across multiple platforms. Right? So this hybrid concept has only been at the center of our strategy and that's the one that mama is is delivering our clients greatest value. Tell you what. I think one client told me once after hearing our hybrid story that while there were many cloud providers, there wasn't anyone that could help them out as much as I B. M. Dealing with your legacy and in all candor. I think it's fair to say that legacy is here to say well past our investment horizon. Right? So that level of self awareness, I think ended up believe forming our collaborations for years to come. >>You know, I'm a big believer and I've reported this and certainly talked to Arvin when um he was on the cube about this microservices, containers, kubernetes, these kinds of new technologies really allow for legacy to integrate well into the new modern era of computing in hybrid cloud. So totally agree. And that is really key tailwind for for innovation and these transformations. I have to ask you ricardo what's going on at city and IBM tell us take us through some things that you're working on, some of the exciting projects that you're driving. >>So the disclaimer is that I started this well three months ago, so I'll try to do my my team proud here. But what I'll tell you is that the teams you talk about are alive and well, it's sitting right? So on the cloudfront we are doing exactly that. We're focusing on on on being uh cities partner on the heavy cloud deployment, acknowledging that higher Ecologist is an ecosystem of participants, right? Technology that IBM s dominance in on prime computing. We'll go through a very different face going forward. We not only a comfortable with it, but we are trying to accelerate its deployment. Right? So you mentioned communities, you mentioned containers, Hence a redhead acquisition, right? Which has been central to the collaboration that we've uh we've established the city and we look at the broad, I'm also gonna go back to data and I will tell you that, uh, you know, uh, cities in the midst of a transformation journey of their own right. It's also the middle of a regulatory challenge. That's second to none. Right. With with the zero cc. Findings that then led to a financial remediation plan that the bank has put in place over the past two months. With that in mind we are looking to help the bank make a make a good crisis make the most of the crisis, right? And so helping, for instance, Mark Sabino, the head of Innovation City, find ways to infuse Ai into their internal Codec practices doing that. It's just smart business. The results in much better outcome at a lower cost and it's something that can scale because it's all seen before. Oftentimes our solutions have lacked the ability to scale to really keep up with them in >>ricardo. The relationship between IBM and city has been long standing. I believe. I read somewhere you're celebrating 100 year partnership. Is that true? If so. I mean, it's a huge milestone. What's the take us through the history and where this is going as a partnership? >>I've heard as a matter of fact is that as I first came on board that in fact our companies have been added for more than 100 years and someone showed me an actual document 100 years old, there was proof positive of that. So I'll tell you, I know that our firms would be added again 100 years from now. I will probably not be here to toast to it but I'm certain they will continue to collaborate and for the strong is this is my responsibility. I'll do whatever I can to help you continue to grow. We're only going to focus on three things I spoke about every cloud. Would you also want to be the partner? Is the bank transforms its operations right and infuse in it. Our Ai and process, information skills and capabilities. I think if we do that, we'll continue to collaborate and will continue to have our partnership fully rests on two pillars that is always independent, which are really innovation can trust >>great commentary, great uh an account that you're leading probably a great team behind how many people are on this team must be pretty massive and I'd love to see that document by the way, was it a memo? Was that type written was a handwritten? You know, it was a P. O. >>It was an Akron document and I get your copy. >>Uh so historic. I love those history. I love the IBM culture longstanding relationships. Final question for you. You've been in the industry for a while, you've seen many waves of innovation if you're talking to a customer, your friend or colleague and they had asked you ricardo, why is this wave so big and so important? What would you tell them, >>john I think at the heart of this transformation, the evolution, the way they should call it is not the intellectual products, the international new processes but entire no value chains that are being established by players that in many cases need need each other to coexist. This is hardly been the case in the past. I think IBM will form a great example of it, right? And so I do think that this is far more disruptive than what we have witnessed in years past and I can't wait to get get in it and my part to lead us through it >>ricardo, great insight, totally agree. This is a time of open collaboration, an ecosystem you're seeing in the ecosystem and network effect where people are integrating together in this new connected distributed economy. Global economy, thank you for coming on the cube, appreciate your >>time. Thank you so much for having me. >>Okay, Ricardo for Relenza, Global managing director for IBM at Citigroup. This is the Cube coverage of IBM think 2021. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the >>cube >>with digital >>coverage of IBM >>Think 2021 >>brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cube coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube ricardo for lenses here with me is the global managing director for IBM at Citigroup recorded. Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You're the team leader for Citigroup Managing Director um, a lot going on in the world of finance, Fintech technology, scale transformation, all this is happening. Always leading edge indicator. Give us your perspective on the market right now on the, on that vertical and in general because um there's so much scale is so much machine learning, so much going on, so much competitive advantages. Give us an overview of the industry, how you see them. >>So john about the fortune of working essentially around the world of work in europe in asia in Australia, back here in north America. And I'll tell you what, there are some, some uh, dynamics are specific to a market. There are also a lot of common threads, right? You know, a lot of common threats, right? As you know, my industry, financial services in the middle of uh great disruption right from payments to a global wealth to understand exactly. Not to reposition yourself is a, is a startup. Oftentimes looking time to be dis intimidated by many in the context. I have found many financial institutions are very adept, a change in the way they operate, a lot more nimble than they have been in the past. And they found ways to incorporate a lot of techniques that some of the Frontex operate with. So they all have shark tanks, they all find a way to uh, progress investments that they get to a point of uh, failing fast, right, more are some more adept than others. But for the most part, I'd say that everyone in the market is looking to beef up their their core competences. >>And, you know, the financial, um, industry has never been shy of using technology ever. They've always poured it on. They always want to get more edge. Um, what's your, what is the edge now in the industry for, um, financial and, and in general, businesses who were learning how to be agile? What's the edge? >>I think the edges really finding a way to be ambidextrous, right? Because in many respects, you do want to hold on to a franchise to what got you to a level of success. It's oftentimes it's in the case of my client is in good stead for more than 100 years, Right? So you don't want to let that go. But you also want to grow a new set of skills and grow competences that they need to take into the future. I have found that in many respects that many of my clients are remind me of what lugers and one said maybe 2025 years ago. Our former Ceo and chairman who said the last thing that IBM needs is a strategy. In fact, I think that many of our financial institutions that don't need a strategy, they just need the competences to innovate and executed scale and it's a lot easier said than that >>card. I want to get your perspective before we move on to some of the initiatives and work at city, which is probably compelling. But I want to get your expert opinion on a question that comes up all the time with customers and that are going post pandemic and looking at growth strategies. The idea of the unit economics of their business models tend to change with more data, more digital acceleration. Is there any observations that you could share for leaders who are looking to get that financial mindset or of of how the business is changing with whether it's KPI S or business models. Because at the end of the day, the financial upside of what we're seeing with digital is pretty significant. The economics are seem to be a real game changer on these, these conversations are about acceleration, but also the results are business results are money. >>Absolutely john as a matter of fact, that I'd argue that while it's true that the common theme so many and that several of our financial institutions are growing a skill in, in a, in a uh, approaching problems in a different fashion is also true that there's been a lot of redistribution of wealth across financial enterprises, right? So it's not lost on all of us. Right. The security look at market globalization of the financial institutions, on the work. They've really done a little place with the clear winners in several sectors, right? In Asia and europe, as well as here in North America. So what I argue is that while I think we're all tired of hearing the data is the new oil, right? It's also true that we need to find a way to finally harness the power of it. Right? And that's what I think IBM is more more adept at, right, argue that many of the common threads that we've seen across the financial institutions and back to the to the measures of success you would indicate in a minute ago, really around cloud, right around data and around digital transformation. Right? So our approach to cloud, for instance, is unique, right? While there are a number of uh very competent hyper Steelers, we've taken a different approach to it, right? We've taken our approach is more than after other highly specialized regulated workloads, right. Organ after the layer that allows you to port application seamlessly based on regulation costs and competition across multiple platforms. Right? So this hybrid concept has only been at the center of our strategy and that's the one that mama is is delivering our clients. Greatest father tell you what. I think one client told me once after hearing our hybrid story that while there were many cloud providers, there wasn't anyone that could help them quite as much as I B. M. Dealing with their legacy and in all candor, I think it's fair to say that legacy is here to say well past our investment horizon. Right? So that level of self awareness, I think ended up believing forming our collaborations for years to come. >>You know, I'm a big believer and I've reported this and certainly talked to Arvin when um he was on the cube about this microservices, containers, kubernetes, these kinds of new technologies really allow for legacy to integrate well into the new modern era of computer, what's going on at city and IBM tell us take us through some things that you're working on, some of the exciting projects that you're driving. >>So the disclaimer is that I started this well three months ago, so I'll try to do my my team proud here. But what I'll tell you is that the teams you talk about are alive and well, that's sitting right. So on the cloudfront we are doing exactly that we're focusing on, on on being uh cities partner on the heavy cloud deployment, acknowledging that uh fabric odyssey is an ecosystem of participants, right. Technology that IBM uh dominance in on prem computing will go through a very different face going forward. We not only a comfortable with it, but we're trying to accelerate its deployment. Right? So you mentioned communities, you mentioned containers, hence a redhead acquisition, right? Which has been central to the collaboration that we've uh we've established the city and we look at the growth. I'm also gonna go back to data and I will tell you that uh you know, uh, cities in the midst of a transformation journey of their own right. It's also the middle of a regulatory challenge. That's second to none. Right. With with the zero cc. Findings that then led to a final remediation plan that the bank has put in place over the past two months. With that in mind, we are looking to help the bank make a make a good crisis make the most of the crisis right. And so helping for instance, Mark Sabino, the head of innovation City, find ways to infuse Ai into their internal audit practices doing that. It's just smart business, the results in much better outcome at a lower cost and it's something that can scale because it's all seen before. Oftentimes our solutions have lacked the ability to scale to really keep up with them in >>ricardo. The relationship between IBM and City has been long standing. I believe. I read somewhere you're celebrating 100 year partnership. Is that true? If so. I mean it's a huge milestone. What's the take us through the history and where this is going as a partnership? >>I've heard as a matter of fact is that as I first came on board that in fact our companies have been added for more than 100 years and someone showed me an actual document 100 years old, there was proof positive of that. So I'll tell you, I know that our firms would be added again 100 years from now. I will probably not be here to toast to it, but I'm certain they will continue to collaborate and for the strong is this is my responsibility or do whatever I can to help you continue to grow. We're only going to focus on three things I spoke about every cloud, but you also want to be the partner is the bank transforms its operations right and infuse in it. Our AI and process information, skills and capabilities. I think if we do that we'll continue to collaborate and will continue to have our partnership fully rests on two pillars that is always independent, which are really innovation and trust >>great commentary. Great. An account that you're leading probably great team behind how many people are on this team must be pretty massive. And I'd love to see that document by the way. Was it a memo? Was that type written was a handwritten? You know, it was a P. O. Okay. >>It was an Akron document that I get your copy. >>Uh so historic. I love those history. I love the IBM culture longstanding relationships. Final question for you. You've been in the industry for a while, you've seen many waves of innovation. If you're talking to a customer, your friend or colleague and they had asked you ricardo, why is this wave so big and so important? What would you tell them? >>John I think at the heart of this transformation, the evolution, the way they should call it is not the introduction of new products, the international processes, but entire no value chains that are being established by players that in many cases need need each other to coexist. This is hardly ever been the case in the past. I think IBM will form a great example of it, right? And so I do think that this is far more disruptive than what we have witnessed in years past and I can't wait to get get in it and my part to lead us through it >>ricardo. Great insight, totally agree. This is a time of open collaboration and ecosystem you're seeing in the ecosystem and network effect where people are integrating together in this new connected distributed economy. Global economy, thank you for coming on the cube, appreciate your time. >>Thank you so much for having me. >>Okay ricardo for Relenza, Global Managing Director for IBM at Citigroup, This is the Cube coverage of IBM think 2021 I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm