>>live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the Cube covering Cisco Live 2020 right to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners >>back. This is the Cube's coverage >>of Cisco Live 2020 here in Barcelona, doing about three and 1/2 days of wall to wall coverage here. Stew Minimum. My co host for this segment is Dave Volante. John Furrier is also here, scaring the floor and really happy to welcome to the program. Two first time guests. I believe so. Uh, Derek is the product manager of product marketing for Cloud Computing with Cisco, and sitting to his left is Matt Ferguson, who's director of product development, also with the Cisco Cloud Group. David here from Boston. Matt is also from the Boston area, and customers is coming over from London. So thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. All right, so obviously, cloud computing something we've been talking about many years. We've really found fascinating relationship. Cisco's had, with its customers a zealous through the partner ecosystem, had many good discussions about some of the announcements this week. Maybe start a little bit, you know, Cisco's software journey and positioning in the cloud space right now. >>So it's a really interesting dynamic when we started transitioning to multi cloud and we actually deal with Cloud and Compute coming together and we've had whether you're looking at three infrastructure ops organization or whether you're looking at the APS up operations or whether you're looking at, you know, your DEV environment, your security operations. Each organization has to deal with their angle, which they view, you know, multi cloud. Or they view how they actually operate within those the cloud computing context. And so whether you're on the infrastructure side, you're looking at compute. You're looking at storage. You're looking at resources. If you're on an app operator, you're looking at performance. You're looking at visibility assurance. If you are in the security operations you're looking at, maybe governance. You're looking at policy, and then when you're a developer, you really sort of thinking about see I CD. You're talking about agility, and there's very few organizations like Cisco that actually is looking at from a product perspective. All those various angles >>of multi cloud >> is definitely a lot of pieces. Maybe up level it for us a little bit. There's so many pieces way talk for so long. You know you don't talk to any company that doesn't have a cloud. Strategy doesn't mean that it's not going to change over time. And it means every company's got a known positioning. But talk about the relationship Cisco has with its customers and really the advisory condition that you want to have with >>its actually a very relevant question. To what? To what Matt is talking about, because Wei talked a lot about multi cloud as a trend and hybrid clouds and this kind of relationship between the traditional view of looking at computing data centers and then expanding to different clouds. You know, public cloud providers have now amazing platform capabilities. And if you think about it, the it goes back to what Matt said about I t ops and development kind of efforts. Why is this happening? Really, there's There's the study that we did with with an analyst, and there was an amazing a shocking stats around how within the next three years, organizations will have to support 50% more applications than they do now. And we have been trying to test this, that our events that made customer meetings etcetera, that is a lot of a lot of change for organizations. So if you think about why are they use, why do they need to basically let go and expand to those clouds? Is because they want to service. I T ops teams want to servers with capabilities, their developers faster, right? And this is where you have within the I T ops kind of theme organization. You have the security kind of frame through the compute frame, the networking where, you know Cisco has a traditional footprint. How do you blend all this? How do you bring all this together in a linear way to support individual unique application modernization efforts? I think that's what we're hearing from customers in terms of the feedback. And this is what influences our >>strategy to converts the different business units. And it's an area engineering effort, right? >>I want to poke at that a little bit. I mean, a couple years ago, I have to admit I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic. I always said that I thought it was more of a symptom that actually strategy a symptom of shadow I t and different workloads and so forth, but now kind of buying in because I think I t in particular has been brought in to clean up the crime scene. I often say so I think it is becoming a strategy. So if you could help us understand what you're hearing from customers in terms of their strategy towards multi cloud and how Cisco it was mapping into that, >>yeah, so So when we talk to customers, it comes back to the angle at which they're approaching the problem. And, like you said, that shadow I t. Has been probably around for longer than anybody want, cares to admit, because people want to move faster. Organizations want to get their product out to market sooner. And so what? What really is we're having conversations now about, you know, how do I get the visibility? How do I get you know, the policies in the governance so that I can actually understand either how much I'm spending in the cloud or whether I'm getting the actual performance that I'm looking for, that I need that connectivity. So I get the bandwidth, and so these are the kinds of conversations that we have with customers is going. I realized that this is going on now I actually have to Now put some governance and controls around. That is their products is their solutions, is there? You know, they're looking to Cisco to help them through this journey because it is a journey. Because as much as we talk about cloud and you know, companies that were born in the cloud cloud native there is a tremendous number of I see organizations that are just starting that journey that are just entering into this phase where they have to solve these problems. >>Yeah, I agree. And they're starting the journey with a deliberate strategy as opposed to Okay, we got this thing. But if you think about the competitive landscape, it's kind of interesting. And I want to try to understand where Cisco fits because again, you initially had companies that didn't know in a public cloud sort of pushing multi cloud. You say? Well, I guess they have to do that. But now you see, and those come out with Google, you see Microsoft leaning in way. Think eventually aws is gonna lead in. And then you say I'm kind of interested in working with some of these cloud agnostic not trying to force Now, now Cisco. A few years ago, you didn't really think about Cisco as a player. Now this goes right in the middle. I have said often that Cisco's in a great position John Furrier as well to connect businesses and from a source of networking strength, making a strong argument that we have the most cost effective, most secure, highest performance networks to connect clouds. That seems to be a pretty fundamental strength of yours. And does that essentially summarize your strategy? And And how does that map into the actions that you're taking in terms of products and services that you're bringing to market? >>I would say that I can I can I can take that. Yeah, for sure. It's chewy question for hours. So I was thinking about satellite you mentioned before. Like Okay, that's, you know, the world has turned around completely way seem to talk about Target satellite Is something bad happening? And now, suddenly we completely forgot about it, like let let free, free up the developers and let them do whatever they want. And basically that is what I think is happening out there in the market. So all of the solutions you mentioned in the go to market approaches and the architectures that the public cloud providers at least our offering out there. Certainly the Big Three have differences have their strengths on. And I think those things are closer to the developer environment. Basically, you know, if you're looking into something like AI ml, there's one provider that you go with. If you're looking for a mobile development framework, you're gonna go somewhere else. If you're looking for a D, are you gonna go somewhere else? Maybe not a big cloud, but your service provider. But you've been dealing with all this all this time, so you know that they have their accreditation that you're looking for. So where does Cisco come in? You know, we're not a public cloud provider way offer products as a service from our data centers and our partners data centers. But at the the way that the industry sees a cloud provider a public cloud like AWS Azure, Google, Oracle, IBM, etcetera, we're not that we don't do that. Our mission is to enable organizations with software hardware products SAS products to be able to facilitate their connectivity, security, visibility, observe ability, and in doing business and in leveraging the best benefits from those clubs. So way kind of way kind of moved to a point where we flip around the question, and the first question is, Who is your club provider? What? How many? Tell us the clouds you work with, and we can give you the modular pieces you can put we can put together for you. So these, so that you can make the best out of >>your club. Being able to do that across clouds in an environment that is consistent with policies that are consistent, that represent the edicts of your organization, no matter where your data lives, that's sort of the vision and the way >>this is translated into products into Cisco's products. You naturally think about Cisco as the connectivity provider networking. That's that's really sort of our, you know, go to in what we're also when we have a significant computing portfolio as well. So connectivity is not only the connectivity of the actual wire between geography is point A to point B. In the natural routing and switching world, there's connectivity between applications between compute and so this week. You know, the announcements were significant in that space when you talk about the compute and the cloud coming together on a single platform, that gives you not only the ability to look at your applications from an experience journey map so you can actually know where problems might occur in the application domain. You can actually, then go that next level down into the infrastructure level and you can say, Okay, maybe I'm running out of some sort of resource, whether it's compute resource, whether it's memory, whether it's on your private cloud that you have enabled on Prem, or whether it's in the public cloud, that you have that application residing and then, quite candidly, you have the actual hardware itself. So inter site. It has an ability to control that entire stack so you can have that visibility all the way down to the hardware layer. >>I'm glad you brought up some of the applications. I wonder if we could stay there for a moment. Talk about some of the changing patterns for customers. A lot of talk in the industry about cloud native often gets conflated with micro services, container ization and lots of the individual pieces there. But when one of Our favorite things have been talking about this week is software that really sits at the application layer and how that connects down through some of the infrastructure pieces. So help us understand what you're hearing from customers and how you're helping them through this transition to cost. You're saying, Absolutely, there's going to be lots of new applications, more applications and they still have the old stuff that they need to continue to manage because we know in I t nothing ever goes away. Yeah, >>that's that's definitely I was I was thinking, you know, there's there's a vacuum at the moment on and there's things that Cisco is doing from from a technology perspective to fill that gap between application. What you see when it comes to monitoring, making sure your services are observable. And how does that fit within the infrastructure stack, You know, everything upwards of the network layer. Basically, that is changing dramatically. Some of the things that matter touched upon with regards to, you know, being able to connect the networking, the security and the infrastructure of the compute infrastructure that the developers basically are deploying on top. So there's a lot of the desert out of things on continue ization. There's a lot of, in fact, it's one part of the off the shelf inter site of the stack that you mentioned and one of the big announcements. Uh huh. You know that there's a lot of discussion in the industry around. Okay, how does that abstract further the conversation on networking, for example? Because that now what we're seeing is that you have a huge monoliths enterprise applications that are being carved down into micro services. Okay, they know there's a big misunderstanding around what is cloud native? Is it related to containers? Different kind of things, right? But containers are naturally the infrastructure defacto currency for developers to deploy because of many, many benefits. But then what happens between the kubernetes layer, which seems to be the standard and the application? Who's going to be managing services talking to each other that are multiplying? You know, things like service mesh, network service mess? How is the never evolving to be able to create this immutable infrastructure for developers to deploy applications? So there's so many things happening at the same time where Cisco has actually a lot of taking a lot of the front seat. Leading that conversation >>is where it gets really interesting. Sort of hard to squint through because you mentioned kubernetes is the de facto standard, but it's a defacto standard that's open everybody's playing with. But historically, this industry has been defined by a leader comes out with a de facto standard kubernetes, not a company. It's an open standard, so but there's so many other components than containers. And so history would suggest that there's going to be another defacto standard or multiple standards that emerge. And your point earlier. You got to have the full stack. You can't just do networking. You can't just do certain if you so you guys are attacking that whole pie. So how do you think this thing will evolve? I mean, you guys obviously intend to put out a stat cast a wide net as possible, captured not only your existing install basement attract, attract others on you're going aggressively at it as a czar. Others How do you see it shaking out? You see you know, four or five pockets, you see one leader emerging. I mean, customers would love all you guys to get together and come up with standards. That's not going to happen. So where it's jump ball right now? >>Well, yeah. You think about, you know, to your point regarding kubernetes is not a company, right? It is. It is a community driven. I mean, it was open source by a large company, but it's community driven now, and that's the pace at which open source is sort of evolving. There is so much coming at I t organizations from a new paradigm, a new software, something that's, you know, the new the shiny object that sort of everybody sort of has to jump onto and sort of say, that is the way we're gonna function. So I t organizations have to struggle with this influx of just every coming at them and every angle. And I think what starting toe happen is the management and the you know that Stack who controls that or who is helping i t organizations to manage it for them. So really, what we're trying to say is there's elements that have to put together that have to function, and kubernetes is just one example Docker, the operating system that associated with it that runs all that stuff then you have the application that goes right sides on top of it. So now what we have to have is things like what we just announced this week. Hx AP the application platform for a check so you have the Compute cluster, but then you have the stack on top of that that's managed by an organization that's looking at the security that's looking at the the actual making opinions about what should go in the stack and managing that for you. So you don't have to deal with that because you just focus on the application development. Yeah, >>I mean, Cisco's in a strong position to do. There's no question about it. To me, it comes down to execution. If you guys execute and deliver on the products and services that you say, you know, you announced, for instance, this weekend previously, and you continue on a road map, you're gonna get a fair share of this market place. I think there's no question >>so last topic before we let you go is love your viewpoint on customers. What's separating kind of leaders from you know, the followers in this space, you know, there's so much data out there. And I'm a big fan of the State of Dev Ops report Help separate, You know, some not be not. Here's the technology or the piece, but the organizational and, you know, dynamics that you should do. So it sounds like you like that report also, love. What do you hear from customers? How do you help guide them towards becoming leaders in the cloud space? >>Yeah, The State of Dev Ops report was fascinating. I mean, they've been doing that for a number of years now. Yeah, exactly. And really what? It's sort of highlighting is two main factors that I think that are in this revolution or the third paradigm shift. Our journey we're going through, there's the technology side for sure, and so that's getting more complex. You have micro services, you have application explosion. You have a lot of things that are occurring just in technology that you're trying to keep up. But then it's really about the human aspect of human elements, the people about it. And that's really I think, what separates you know, the elites that are really sort of, you know, just charging forward and ahead because they've been able to sort of break down the silos because really, what you're talking about in cloud Native Dev Ops is how you take the journey of the experience of the service from end end from the development all the way to production. And how do you actually sort of not have organizations that look at their domain their data, set their operations and then have to translate that or have to sort of you have another conversation with another organization that that doesn't look at that, That has no experience of that? So that is what we're talking about, that end and view. >>And in addition to all the things we've been talking about, I think security's a linchpin here. You guys are executing on security. You got a big portfolio and you've seen a lot of M and A and a lot of companies trying to get in, and it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out. But that's going to be a key because organizations are going to start there from a strategy standpoint, and they build out >>Yeah, absolutely. If you follow Dev ops methodologies, security gets baked in along the way so that you're not having to 100% gone after anything, just give you the final word. >>I was just a follow up with You. Got some other model was saying, There's so many, there's what's happening out there Is this democracy around? Standards with is driven by communities and way love that in fact, Cisco is involved in many open sores community projects. But you asked about customers and just right before you were asking about you know who is gonna be the winner. There's so many use cases. >>Uh huh. >>There's so much depth in Tim's off. You know what customers want to do with on top of kubernetes, you know, take Ai Ml, for example, something that we have way have some, some some offering services on there's cast. A mother wants to ai ml their their container stuck. Their infrastructure will be so much different to someone else, is doing something just hosting. And there's always going to be a SAS provider that is niche servicing some oil and gas company, you know, which means that the company of that industry will go and follow that instead of just going to a public cloud provider that is more agnostic. Does that make sense? Yeah. >>Yeah. There's relationships that exist that are just gonna get blown away. That add value today. And they're not going to just throw him out. Exactly. >>Well, thank you so much for helping us understand the updates where your customers are driving super exciting space. Look forward to keeping an eye on it. Thanks so much. Alright, there's still lots more coming here from Cisco Live 2020 in Barcelona. People are standing watching all the developer events, lots going on the floor and we still have more. So thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this special CUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here in our Palo Alto studio with two great guests from Cisco as we talk about a content series around cloud, cloud management, cloud orchestration, and interesting cloud native. It's a cloud native world, hybrid multicloud. Two great guests, Matt Ferguson, director of cloud management orchestration at Cisco, and Ali G, technical leader in software engineering. Guys, thanks for coming on, good to see you. >> Thank you for having us. >> Yeah, tanks for having us. >> Sporting the nice Kubernetes shirt there. Of course I'm jealous. (laughs) Great shirt because we'll be at KubeCon, so looking forward to that. >> Absolutely, absolutely. >> We'll be there, too. >> So thanks. Matt, first start with you. You're the director of product management. You see the whole portfolio. What makes up the Cloud Center Suite? What are the components, let's get that out. >> Yeah, no, thanks, I appreciate that. Cloud Center is really our cloud management platform. It's a suite of products, quite candidly, and in the suite we have a Workload Manager module that is about taking workloads and modeling them out in blueprints, and then actually targeting them to very specific infrastructures, whether that's on-prem or in a public cloud, so that's module number one. The second module is our Action Orchestrator product, and this is an orchestration platform that can take various elements of code, of script, and take functions and actually sort of apply those with various different sort of capabilities to either set up infrastructure, or you know, do other sort of capabilities. And the third product in the suite is Cost Optimizer, and this is about understanding how much you're spending. It's understanding budgets, it's trying to categorize that in the public space. We can also apply that into an on-prem and how much you might want to sort of target that. We have, so that's the suite, and the suite is a combination of either self-hosted, so you can actually sort of like download the software and then self-host it on-prem, or we also have a SaaS platform, or SaaS-hosted capabilities for the Cloud Center. >> And the market's growing like crazy. You guys are doing a lot of product work. We've done a great interview with Ryan Hart from your team on the business benefits, but there's a lot of technical product managers out there, or cloud architects, people who are actually in the trenches, who need to look under the hood and figure out if this kind of is going to fit their environment. Ali, you've been, you know, a developer, you are a developer. At the end of the day all the talk on the marketing side is about the benefits. When they come in to you and they say, "Okay, implement this." >> Right. >> Does it work together, can it work by itself, I mean, can you mix and match? Take us through what it means for the folks who have to implement or design around the platform. >> Absolutely, so (clears throat) as a developer, you know, when we're coding it's key that we take our thoughts and ideas and as soon as we can bring it up to a POC, because normally we're working in an Agile fashion, and in two-week sprints at the end of the sprint you have to do a demo. So in order to achieve that this suite gives the capability of taking away any blockers that a developer may have, so a lot of times the developers and the teams already set up their tools around Jenkins and different CI components that they have, which is great but you know, me being in that part of the work and we hit roadblocks where failures happened, right, and we have to have our eye on the builds. And unfortunately there are manual, you know, interactions that we have to do retries. It would be great if the system was fault tolerant. Now that doesn't mean that we have to completely remove what we've done inside our CICDs, right? We've spent so much time, however if we can bring item potent commands and loose couple them a little bit and use the suite in order for us to do some of the work and give us that fault tolerancy, that'll be great, and that's what Cloud Center Suite has to offer, right? As Matt pointed out, you know, there are different components to it. You have the Workload Manager which sets up the infrastructure, but then you have AO, Action Orchestrator, which is the orchestration engine. Where I strongly believe that picking out an orchestration engine, either for you CICD and devops work, or even at the application level for development, becomes challenging, right? Does it support all the features that I have, does it have the patterns that does fault tolerancy, does threshold settings and retries? Does it do circuit breaker patterns, you know, does it take care of everything? So having that AO being your center of orchestration, both for your devops and your application, I feel that plays a strong role as a developer, right? >> So talk about the orchestration engines. I want to unpack, there's a lot there. I want to just kind of-- >> Yeah. >> Unpack it a little bit. Okay, so I'm a developer, I'm like, okay. I'm working hard, I've got the cloud architecture, I've got some cloud native, and every single day a new thing comes over the transit. "Try this new tool, it's going to be killer." Orchestration you mentioned is a buzzword that's been kicked around a lot. Obviously some people try to say, "Orchestration's about Kubernetes." Some people say no, orchestration's about a lot of other things within the enterprise, so IT is starting to get this orchestration fatigue of meaning. What is, when you say orchestration engine, what is it specifically applying to, because certainly there's orchestration within containers with Kubernetes-- >> Absolutely. >> And you're wearing, supporting the shirt. >> Right. >> But it's more than that, what does that mean for me? I'm the person in the trenches, I'm making it happen. >> No, that's a great question. The reason it's a great question is because orchestration means different things at different levels, and you brought up a good point, like Kubernetes. Kubernetes is an orchestration, but it's a container orchestrator, correct? But I'm looking at Action Orchestrator acting as the orchestration for your devops activity, as part of your CICD. Not everything needs to be inside our CIs, whether as if they're command patterns that are item potent and designed, that could move into the Action Orchestrator so that we can leverage retries and have the system be fault tolerant, that's one thing. The other thing is if you're building an application that requires orchestration, that has a workflow, that requires some requests that are given to the application to be processed at the backend, right? That could also leverage this Action Orchestrator engine as well, so you're absolutely right that orchestration is there, for example, in Kubernetes, but that falls into the context of containers, whether as this falls into the context of developers. Does that-- >> Yeah, makes total sense. I mean, fault tolerance you mentioned, you mentioned loosely coupled. >> Right. >> What do you mean by that, because I get loosely coupled. Anyone that designs OSs knows. You want to couple things and make things highly cohesive. Great practice in a systems architecture. What do you mean by loosely coupled, what's the impact of me as I'm trying to figure out my devops, I've got developers pipelining. What does that mean, loosely coupled? >> So when it goes to keeping loosely coupled is if you look at today how let's say I would have done it in my team, and we've done this before, right, is that we'd set up a pipeline in our CI environment where we're performing unit testing and then we're performing integration testing, but then we're also building, packaging, pushing the containers up to the registries, right? What happens where the endpoint registry is down, there is no retries, right, there is no capability of the system knowing how to heal itself. Okay, so keeping loosely coupled in this sense is why not I keep a lot of my UT and integration testing remaining inside Jenkins, which I've done already a lot of investment in, right? I don't want to remove it, right? However, if I bring those third party connection calls that we're doing inside the orchestration which the system heals itself, that's where I see the loose coupleness that can definitely benefit us here. >> Talk about third party. Matt, you talk about it first from a product perspective because you have the roadmap to deal with. Obviously Cisco has legacy positions in the enterprise. You guys are number one in networking, in other areas. Now the cloud native world, so you got to deal with third parties. You guys have done that, been multivendor in the past. There's a business and technical impact in connecting. >> Right. >> As the world's getting faster and more microservice-oriented, what does that mean, third party? What does it mean to be third party connected? >> Yeah, it's a great question. So we're going through this, you know, transition as well where we have to enable the development community as they're going through their proof of concepts, as they're becoming more Agile, as they're actually doing the true continuous integration, the continuous delivery of that proof of concept that ultimately will land into production. So what we want to provide is the tools in order to, you know, provide either the line of business owner or the business element of the IT organization of, you know, maybe the cost associated with, you know, how much it's, you know, that particular development effort is taking, you know, by looking at how much their, you know, that public cloud provider's charging. We might be able to leverage different infrastructures, so you could leverage the, you know, on-prem and in the cloud, the public cloud, and so with Cloud Center you're able to actually take either, in Workload Manager you're able to actually set up, you know, that infrastructure and place that workload there. You're able to use Action Orchestrator to glue a variety of different either scripts or languages, or you know, whatever element that the developer is friendly or familiar with, and then you're also to actually leverage the cost associated. So I get an update on how much this is costing me as the developer is going through their cycle. >> All right, Ali, let's attack that statement. Glue, who doesn't like a glue layer? But at the expense of throwing away what I got is not cool. Like people don't want-- >> Absolutely. >> They want to be, I love to create more opportunities to glue things together, make it more integrated with data modeling going back and forth, I love that. How does your customer, in this case a devops or a developer or a technical architect, get the best of a glue layer-like feature at the same time not compromising any disruption to how they do their business? >> Perfect, so a lot of the work that they already invested inside their devops work could be there. However, like I mentioned about the orchestration section is that the ability to introduce any custom adapters are also available, correct, so there are out-of-the-box adapters for Ansible, Terraform, and many more, for RESTful API calls, and if a team requires to do a custom adapter creation via an SDK that they have inside they can simply implement it because of the interface that's available. So that's where I feel that the glue is where it comes to the orchestration level. Now where Matt pointed out on the Cost Optimizer this is very key because the realtime data that Cost Optimizer is providing from the underlying clusters that we have our services running provides us, if you tie that, and ending out I want to use the word 'glue' here, if you tie that with the orchestration engine you can do realtime system decision making on knowing that the next service that you're introducing, now think about it, when we're talking about huge companies, right, 200-plus microservices, you know, we're not talking about one or two, and there are out there, and when we're talking about those number of microservices cost becomes important. Where should I be able to push the next service? Should I push it, if it's in my public cloud should I go to Azure or should I go to AWS, right? And cost is a key factor there as well, right? >> Explain cost, I mean cost is cash, but there's also cost in code, there's cost in operations. Do you mean cost in terms of actually hard dollars, are you talking about cost of the service, impact to the system, or both? I mean, why do I care if I'm a technical person? Hey, someone else is paying the bills. >> Correct, so a couple of things as a technical person's concerned is that when it comes down to, costs aside, but where the orchestrator actually plays a role and when it comes to where deployment needs to happen on which cloud is key. As a technical person sometimes our environments and our persistence layers that we have services connecting to require only access to private data, so it cannot go into the public sector. So that service needs to be deployed onto the private cloud. Whereas you have other services that have to live on the edge because they communicate with the internal cloud, so those services need to be pushed onto that public. So it's here that the suite basically gives you the opportunity to do all of that automatically without any, you know, interference at all. >> And you know, and I'll just dive in. I mean, I think the thing that, you know, if I was a line of business owner, right, I'm really looking for my developer community, my team to move faster. I don't want to necessarily slow them down, so I want to be able to say, "Hey, if there is a service within Azure, "if there is something within Google Cloud "that really helps you develop either faster "or provides a service that makes "the functionality of the experience better," I want the developer to be able to use that as a target infrastructure. At the same time, you know, I also want to go, "Okay, so as we're building out this application "or this service, is it growing out of bounds in cost, "is this something that I can actually "sort of take to production," and then I have an awareness of exactly when they go through the unit test, the integration test, how much this is actually going to cost. >> It's a fascinating conversation, certainly on our next segment when we do more of these interviews I'd love to drill into technical debt, but I'll ask you guys while you're here, technical debt is something that developers are used to dealing with, especially when they want to go from idea to POC, you take chances, there's technical debt and people have a good form for balancing debt. Cost also factors into things like that, and we add microservices to the equation, there's services going up and down, you don't know what's happening. So automation comes into a big part of this. So this idea of getting from point A to point B, whether it's idea to POC or POC to production, there's sometimes technical debt involved, there's sometimes thinking around that. How does the platform help there? Is that something that you guys help developers with? Because that's some, I'll take a chance. If I want to get a POC up and running maybe I take some technical debt to try to get it going, then I'll fill it in after. (laughs) >> Right, so I think like Matt mentioned about the different components that play inside the suite, you know, you have the infrastructure handled by Workload Manager, you have your orchestration again by AO, you have Cost Optimizer providing cost. The ability to set up your system inside these components and then creating a template out of it so that later when you want to challenge technical debt you're not reinventing things, so you already have templates created. So going back and dealing with technical debt is about how you can take your templates to the next version. >> And that's in line with devops thinking, iteration. >> Exactly. >> You know, just keep it Agile, keep it going. What's your guy's take on automation? Obviously when you look at the biggest trends in multicloud and hybrid cloud you have two things pop up in this new cloud architecture, observability and automation are two hot trends, which is essentially, observability's just network management on steroids and automation's configuration management on steroids, (chuckles) so the world's kind of the same but evolving. I mean this is in your, both are in your wheelhouse for Cisco as a company. >> Yeah, and another element that I think we haven't really talked about was, you know, we have a container platform that actually will leverage the APIs to either the public cloud or on-prem to like an ESXi host on VMware, and what that provides is to leverage the best of where that particular service would reside. If it's on-prem because of particular use cases, of data sovereignty or just locality, you know, hey, put your workload there. If you want to leverage something that's in the public cloud because of a service or something, we're not actually putting a cluster on AWS, we're leveraging EKS, we're connecting via APIs. You know, the cluster that you are controlling from the control plane all the way to the workload or the worker node, it would actually be spun up within EKS. So we're trying to bridge that on-prem world to the public cloud, so very much hybrid cloud, the connectivity piece and being able then to understand, you know, the connectivity and the workloads that go there. >> Bridge, an old school term. >> Bridge, yes. >> It means something. >> Yes. >> Bridge. >> Yes. >> Gateways. >> Yes. >> Internetworking. >> Yes. >> Cloud, same movie, different generation, isn't it? >> Yeah. (laughs) (laughs) >> You got it. >> I mean they're moving up the stack a bit. >> Yeah. >> But this is serious, this is going on. People want to have things move around. It takes a lot of networking knowledge, but it's all being done now with software with a lot of automation abstraction. This is why I think the devops and the net devops world, whatever we're calling it, is really creating this new abstraction layer. So great conversation, let's bring it all together and end this up. Bottom line I'm a technical person. I have responsibility, my boss is saying, "Go faster, be Agile, be devops," but we've got all this legacy to deal with. Why Cisco platform, what's the bottom line? >> With the container platform what we're trying to do is enable IT to have the tools that they can actually enable the speed and agility for their developers, and that's really the bottom line. And we're trying to, you know, just basically empower and move at the speed of Agile, so IT is now a part of the process of innovation and proof of concepting. I know the challenge though is governance, policy, security, all the things, the connectivity. Those are the elements that we're bringing to the table for the IT, you know, ops organization that can also sort of like go, "I am able to provide that for their developers." >> And Ali, your perspective, you're one of us. You're a technical brother. What's the bottom line, why should I take a chance, why should I implement this platform? >> Because developers really want to code at the end of the day, and they want to just focus on their business logic. They want the system to be automated. They want the system to be self-healed, and just like what Matt said, right, this suite basically gives you that so that you just focus on your code and your business logic, nothing else. >> Awesome, guys, great conversation. Looking forward to following up. I think there's a lot to unpack. I think as this cloud 2.0 world, or whatever it's being called, is about modernization of the enterprise, and it's going to be around for a long, long time. Thanks for sharing your expert opinions and commentary, appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for having us. >> This is theCUBE here in Palo Alto for a CUBE conversation. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barters >> Welcome back to the cubes coverage of Day one of Sisqo Live from Sunny San Diego on Lisa Martin, my co hostess student. A man and Stuart are pleased to welcome a couple of guests from this Cisco platform and Solutions Group. We've got Barbara Half Li, senior director of Business development Barbeque. Great to have you nice to be here. And Matt Ferguson, director of product development. Matt, Welcome. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> So we appreciate you guys being here right at the start of happy hour here in San Diego. Thank you. Some our drinking water. Right wing quick. Just getting so, Barbara. So here we are at this's the 30th year Cisco's partner and customer, then a lot. A lot happens in 30 years. A lot of change here we are customers in every industry, living in this multi cloud hybrid world for many reasons. >> What are some >> of the things from the business perspective that you're hearing from customers? What are they looking to Sisko to do to help them traverse this new multi cloud world successfully. >> Yeah, well, one of the things that we hear customers tell us often is how doe I manage this landscape. Many people think of the cloud is just Oh, I've got a public cloud or oh, I'm gonna have my cloud on primp. But really, with the explosion of devices and I ot right, people want to know. How do we take that data from the edge from the edge? What do I do with that data? Do I put it up in a public cloud immediately? Do I bring it back to do some kind of analysis on that data? Is it goto a polo? Does it come to the branch doesn't go to the headquarters and that landscapes Very complex. So you look across that landscape and as customers of either proactively adopted the public cloud or had to adopt multiple clouds because of acquisitions they've made, this landscape just gets incredibly complex very, very quickly. So when people come to Cisco, they basically looking for a couple of things. Number one security. Because putting the security wrapper around all of that right, it becomes paramount. People lose their jobs if they're data isn't protected, so they want help with their security. They also want to know what's the best cost mix, right? How do I have the right options available to me? But the other thing they really want is speed of innovation. I mean, we hear this over and over and over. Uh, I talked to a bank the other day. 100 year old bank, right? You think 100 year old bank, um, speed of innovation may not be top of their priority, but absolutely. I walked in and they held up the phone and they said, Our competitors Aire delivering capabilities faster for the mobile user. And every time our competitors releases a new application or a new feature, I lose market share. So it isn't about cost savings anymore. It's about speed of innovation, even for 100 year old bank. When they come to Cisco, they want to know. Can you help secure this landscape? Can you give me speed of innovation? And then, of course, every cloud started the networking layer as well, Right? So what innovations is Cisco doing on the networking side? So these are some of the things that's customers come to Cisco and they ask us, what can you do for us and the help that they want? It comes back to innovation every time. >> Barbara. Actually, I've talked to some of those 100 year old Cos they need it more than ever, because that five year old bank doesn't have all the legacy and they're already moving is fast. But it's an interesting point. Matt. You know, we've been tracking community since the early days. This year, it finally feels like it's gotten to a certain maturity level, such that I've talked to a number of customers talking about how that is a lever for their digital transformation, how they're modernizing their application, pork portfolio and not just, you know, the, you know, making of the sausage of how this, you know, container orchestration, layers going toe, you know, do something that most people won't understand. It's that connection with the business kind of building up. What what robber says They're bring us inside a little bit more. You know the community's piece of that, >> Yeah, it's absolutely been tremendous to see the CNC F and Kume con absolutely just take off on the number of people that are attending. I think you been at ease as as a technology is really starting to hit its stride in the mainstream. It's a combination. I think of a number of factors. You have the developer community that's starting to really sort of embrace containers as they sort of re fact to their applications. So you have that going on, and then you have the ops persona or the people that actually have to manage and deploy the Cuban in these clusters that are starting to dive in and go waken. Take this on. We know what it means to actually manage a Cuban aunties cluster. The thing that what we're bringing, I think at Cisco is, ah, a curated staff. The opinionated stack, the ability to manage those clusters ability to actually deploy those clusters, whether it's on prime in the private in the private cloud, or leveraging the AP eyes that eight of us or Google or sure would publicly provide so that you can manage those clusters in the in the actual public's places. Well, so you have a combination of factors that are starting to come together. They're really sort of said, This is the opportunity that we're starting to see it happen right now. >> How would container ization looking at that example that Barber gave of the 100 year old bank needing to transform quickly? Otherwise, there there's so much competition, but not from your perspective. How what are some of the biggest advantage is that a legacy organization like 100 year old make is going to get by adopting containers. >> Yeah, so containers is one thing. So speed of innovation where they actually have to take their application. Asians, let's, for example, as a developer, you're have taken your monolithic applications re factor than into micro services. Now you have one piece of code turning into multiple different pieces of code in containers. Now what you have to do is you have to manage those containers, and that's where Cuban aunties comes in to be ableto orchestrate. Those containers in Google has really sort of offered this technology to the community, and that's where I think you know. You have the history of Google's, you know, operational sort of expertise, the open source ability to take uber Netease and then Sisko to sort of wrap around the lifecycle management of those containers so that you can not think about how, like the note operating system, the doctor run time, all the pieces that make up that stack and let the developers just focus on their code. And that's really what we're trying to do is enable the developers to focus on their code and not have, you know, on entire team of folks managing the cluster itself. >> So, Barbara, it's an open source community. There's a lot of partners involved. So what leads customers? Teo, turn to Sisko for these type of solutions. What differentiates them >> when you when you look at a company trying to do it on their own, I'm going to go do it is a service I'm gonna offer. Containers is a service right to do it on their own. Could take a year or more. I talked to a entertainment company the other day, and they had been working on trying to just define the requirements to do a container platform for a year. So if they could come to a company like Cisco and they can buy the container platform, we have as a sass offering, have it up and running in a matter of hours, which we have presidents of it running up in a couple of couple of hours and then delivering containers is a service to their constituents. It makes the team you're oh, right when you also look at how much it takes to curate that and then maintain it over time, the ability for us to actually consume the changes from the open source community curate that and release it is very fast. So from a nightie perspective, a nightie administrators perspective, you're able to take that offer it to the community, allow them to do development wherever they want to develop, whether it's in the public cloud, whether it's on from but maintain that, control it within the community, then you've got something right, and I mean, Matt could talk about that, too. But But then he'll agree. When we go to all the customers what our container pop firm does, how it leverages Coover Netease. How fast we give the updates out to our customers, and at the price point they are why we're talking about a month, two months. It is a pretty phenomenal opportunity for administrators to get something up and running an offering to their community very, very quickly. >> Yeah, No, you bring up some great points. They remember a couple of years ago when I talk to most customers, it's like, Well, what's your stack? Well, I pull these 35 different tools and I build all this stuff and I'm like, and I'm sorry, Don't you remember when we went to Cloud? It's about getting rid of that undifferentiated heavy lifting. Exactly why is this mission critical for your business to build and maintain this stack? And of course, the interest is for most customers out there. I want to consume it in platforms and from vendors that I trust so that I can focus on what's important in my business and drive the those business drivers. So it was a maturity thing for some of those early customers. So that Ari there, I mean, because Sisko, you've got your Cisco Container platform. You partner with the aid of Lewis's Googles. The world. Yeah, you know, Are we getting that point where customers shouldn't need to even think about that? That there's that communities and service measures and all that stuff in the >> middle of the number one goal is simplicity. And and what I would say with the container platform is that we are leveraging the speed of innovation that's occurring at the public cloud. So we're not taking a a curated stack from Cisco and putting it on the public cloud. We're leveraging the speed of innovation that that the public cloud provides. But at the same time, we're also taking that that cluster and we're putting it on crime into a private cloud. And I say Right now you're the point you're making is spot on, You know you don't necessarily in an ice tea shop with developers managing that entire stack from top to bottom. You know, why would you want to do that? And a recent quote that I heard recently was you either purchase or buy the product or you are the product, and I think that's a fascinating way to look at it because, you know, you could do that, you could curate it. You could absolutely, from top to bond curate the entire stock. But what typically happens that we're seeing from customers is well, um, organizations move on. They might not necessarily know what was built. They might be code that goes, gets older and expires, or you know gets out of dates. And so now you get stuck in an environment where your not terrified. But there's a nervousness, trepidation of going. I don't know, Let's not break it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And that's a lot of times what happens in these stacks. So I think we're absolutely with the CCP and the public how we're starting to actually get to that. >> So, Barbara, last question for you talking about the speed of innovation and when you were describing the massive fast R A Y customers can get by working with you guys from a container solution perspective, it's It's a no brainer as we look at some of the things that we know were coming. The wave of connectivity changes. Five. G WiFi sex. What excites you about how Cisco's story from a container platform perspective is going to change? Change as you start building and crisis that continued building technologies for these networks that are primarily wireless and incredibly fast. >> I think that's exciting for me is the way we approach the architecture, er way we're looking at certainly being more open, everything we do, building it with open AP eyes uh, and and looking across that Cisco stack knowing that at this moment in time, if you would've asked us five years ago Where are you? In cloud, Right? If you would've asked us 10 years ago, what are you going to do in Cloud? But at this moment in time to look at how we differentiate ourselves like I mentioned, every cloud started to the network. You've got to secure the entire infrastructure. You've gotta have connectivity between the clouds. Hence the CCP, the container platform, right. You have to have cloud management. You have to have cloud analytics way. Bring all of that together. So if a company has made investments and Cisco in the past, those those investments are going to come forward in this new multi cloud, multi tool man's domain landscape. And they can leverage those investments while they continue to invest with Cisco in innovations. And and that's what that's what really excites me. I think also just the world of a I and ML and big data And how when excites me is that developers Khun develop anywhere they can use all the great tools that are available. And I love the idea that the control is back in the hands of the I t administrator. From a compliance standpoint from a governance stand like we're bringing that control back into developers hands while giving the speed of innovation and the ability to develop anywhere back to the line of business in the developers. That combination is just really exciting at this moment in time. >> Awesome. And here we are in the definite zone. This is a massive community of over nearly 600,000. Strong, definite. So can you imagine all the innovation going on in this room behind us on day one? We'll we thank you both so much, Barbara, and not for joining stew and me on the A kid this afternoon. Lots of exciting things to come. Francisco or just the as I think, Chuck said this morning, were just getting started. >> We are just getting started. >> Absolutely. >> Guys are pleasure. Forced to mint a man, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching The Cube from Cisco Live 2019

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo Live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem barkers. >> Welcome back to the cubes Coverage of Day One of Sisqo Live from Sunny San Diego on Lisa Martin, my co hostess, student, a Man and Stewart Air. Pleased to welcome a couple of guests from this Cisco platform in Solutions Group, We've got Barbara Half Li, senior director of Business development Barbeque. Great to Have You Iced Beer and Matt Ferguson, director of product development. Matt, Welcome. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> So we appreciate you guys being here right at the start of happy hour here in San Diego. Thank you. Some our drinking water. Right wing quick. Just getting so, Barbara. So here we are at this's the 30th year Cisco's partner and customer, then a lot. A lot happens in 30 years. A lot of change here we are customers in every industry, living in this multi cloud hybrid world for many reasons. >> What are some >> of the things from the business perspective that you're hearing from customers? What are they looking to Sisko to do to help them traverse this new multi cloud world successfully. >> Yeah, well, one of the things that we hear customers tell us often is how doe I manage this landscape. Many people think of the cloud is just Oh, I've got a public cloud or oh, I'm gonna have my cloud on primp. But really, with the explosion of devices and I ot right, people want to know. How do we take that data from the edge from the edge? What do I do with that data? Do I put it up in a public cloud immediately? Do I bring it back to do some kind of analysis on that data? Is it goto a polo? Does it come to the branch doesn't go to the headquarters and that lance games very complex. So you look across that landscape and as customers of either proactively adopted the public cloud or had to adopt multiple clouds because of acquisitions, they've made this lands. Skip just gets incredibly complex very, very quickly. So when people come to Cisco, they basically looking for a couple of things. Number one security. Because putting the security wrapper around all of that right, it becomes paramount. People lose their jobs if they're data isn't protected, so they want help with their security. They also want to know what's the best cost mix, right? How do I have the right options available to me? But the other thing they really want is speed of innovation. I mean, we hear this over and over and over. I talked to a bank the other day. 100 year old bank, right? You think 100 year old bank, um, speed of innovation may not be top of their priority, but absolutely. I walked in and they held up the phone and they said, Our competitors Aire delivering capabilities faster for the mobile user. And every time our competitors releases a new application or a new feature, I lose market share. So it isn't about cost savings anymore. It's about speed of innovation, even for 100 year old bank. When they come to Cisco, they want to know, Can you help secure this landscape? Can you give me speed of innovation? And then, of course, every cloud started the networking layer as well, right? So what innovation Cisco doing on the networking site? So these are some of the things that's customers come to Cisco and they ask us, what can you do for us and the help that they want? It comes back to innovation every time. >> Barbara. Actually, I've talked to some of those homes year old cos they need it more than ever, because that five year old bank doesn't have all the legacy and they're already moving is fast. But it's an interesting point. Matt. You know, we've been tracking community since the early days. This year, it finally feels like it's gotten to a certain maturity level, such that I've talked to a number of customers talking about how that is a lever for their digital transformation, how they're modernizing their application for portfolio and not just, you know, the, you know, making of the sausage of how this, you know, container orchestration, layers going toe, you know, do something that most people won't understand. It's that connection with the business kind of building up. What what? Barber says. They're bring us inside a little bit more. You know the community's piece of that, >> Yeah, it's absolutely been tremendous to see the CNC F and Kume con absolutely just take off on the number of people that are attending. I think humanity's as as a technology is really starting to hit its stride in the mainstream. It's a combination. I think of a number of factors. You have the developer community that's starting to really sort of embrace containers as they sort of re fact to their applications. So you have that going on, and then you have the ops persona or the people that actually have to manage and deploy the Cuban in these clusters that are starting to dive in and go waken. Take this on. We know what it means to actually manage a Cuban aunties cluster. The thing that what we're bringing, I think at Cisco is, ah, a curated staff. The opinionated stack, the ability to manage those clusters ability to actually deploy those clusters, whether it's on prime in the private in the private cloud, or leveraging the AP eyes that eight of us or Google or azure would publicly provide so that you can manage those clusters in the in the actual public's places. Well, so you have a combination of factors that are starting to come together. They're really sort of said, This is the opportunity, and we're starting to see it happen right now, >> how would container ization looking at that example, that Barber gave up 100 year old bank needing to transform quickly. Otherwise, there there's so much competition, but not from your perspective. How what are some of the biggest advantage is that a legacy organization like 100 year old make is going to get by adopting containers. >> Yeah, so containers is one thing. So speed of innovation where they actually have to take their application. Shins. Let's, for example, as a developer, you're have taken your monolithic applications re factor than into micro services. Now you have one piece of code turning into multiple different pieces of code in containers. Now what you have to do is you have to manage those containers, and that's where Cuban aunties comes in to be ableto orchestrate. Those containers in Google has really sort of offered this technology to the community, and that's where I think you know. You have the history of Google's, you know, operational sort of expertise, the open source ability to take uber Netease and then Sisko to sort of wrap around the lifecycle management of those containers so that you can not think about how, like note operating system, the doctor run time, all the pieces that make up that stack and let the developers just focus on their code. And that's really what we're trying to do is enable the developers to focus on their code and not have, you know, on entire team of folks managing the cluster itself. >> So, Barbara, it's an open source community. There's a lot of partners involved. So what leads customers? Teo, turn to Sisko for these type of solutions. What differentiates them >> when you when you look at a company trying to do it on their own, I'm going to go do it is a service I'm gonna offer. Containers is a service right to do it on their own. Could take a year or more. I talked to a entertainment company the other day, and they had been working on trying to just define the requirements to do a container platform for a year. So if they could come to a company like Cisco and they can buy the container platform, we have as a sass offering, have it up and running in a matter of hours, which we have presidents of it running up in a couple of couple of dollars and then delivering containers is a service to their constituents. It makes the team a hero, right when you also look at how much it takes to curate that and then maintain it over time, the ability for us to actually consume the changes from the open source community curate that and release it is very fast. So from a nightie perspective, a nightie administrators perspective, you're able to take that offer it to the community, allow them to do development wherever they want to develop, whether it's in the public cloud, whether it's on from but maintain that, control it within the community, then you've got something right, and I mean, that could talk about that, too. But but then he'll agree. When we go to all the customers what our container pop firm does, how it leverages Cooper Netease. How fast we give the updates out to our customers and at the price point, the r o. Why we're talking about a month, two months. It is a pretty phenomenal opportunity for administrators to get something up and running an offering to their community very, very quickly. >> Yeah, no, you bring up some great points. They remember a couple of years ago. When I talk to most customers, it's like, Well, what's your stack? Well, I pull these 35 different tools and I build all this stuff down like and I'm sorry, Don't you remember when we went to Cloud? It's about getting rid of that undifferentiated heavy lifting. Exactly why is this mission critical for your business to build and maintain this stack? And of course, the interest is for most customers out there. I want to consume it in platforms and from vendors that I trust so that I can focus on what's important in my business and drive the those business drivers. So it was a maturity thing for some of those early customers. So that Ari there, I mean, because Sisko, you've got your Cisco Container platform. You partner with the aid of Lewis's Googles. The world. Yeah, you know, Are we getting that point where customers shouldn't need to even think about that? That there's that communities and service measures and all that stuff in the >> middle of the number one goal is simplicity. And and what I would say with the container platform is that we are leveraging the speed of innovation that's occurring at the public cloud. So we're not taking a a curated stack from Cisco and putting it on the public cloud. We're leveraging the speed of innovation that that the public cloud provides. But at the same time, we're also taking that that cluster and we're putting it on prime into a private cloud. And I say Right now you're the point you're making is spot on, You know you don't necessarily in an ice tea shop with developers managing that entire stack from top to bottom, you know, why would you want to do that? And a recent quote that I heard recently was your either purchase or buy the product or you are the product, and I think that's a fascinating way to look at it because, you know, you could do that, you could curate it. You could absolutely, from top to bond curate the entire stock. But what typically happens that we're seeing from customers is well, organisations move on. They might not necessarily know what was built. They might be code that goes, gets older and expires or, you know, gets out of dates. And so now you get stuck in an environment where your not terrified. But there's a nervousness, trepidation of going. I don't know, Let's not break it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And that's a lot of times what happens in these stacks. So I think we're absolutely with The CCP and the public file were starting to actually get to that >> barber last question for you talking about the speed of innovation and when you were describing the massively fast R a y that customers can get by working with you guys from the container solution perspective, it's It's a no brainer because we look at some of the things that we know were coming. The wave of connectivity changes. Five. G. WiFi sex. What excites you about how Cisco's story from a container platform perspective is gonna change? Change as you start building and crisis that continued building technologies for these networks that are primarily wireless and incredibly fast. >> I think that's exciting for me is the way we approach the architecture, er way we're looking at certainly being more open. Everything we do, building it with open AP eyes, uh, and and looking across that Francisco stack knowing that at this moment in time, If you would've asked us five years ago Where are you? In cloud, right? If you would've asked us 10 years ago, what are you going to do in cloud? But at this moment in time to look at how we differentiate ourselves Like I mentioned, every cloud started to the network. You've got to secure the entire infrastructure. You've gotta have connectivity between the clouds. Hence the CCP, the container platform, right. You have to have cloud management. You have to have cloud analytics way. Bring all of that together. So if a company has made investments and Cisco in the past, those those investments are going to come forward in this new multi cloud, multi tool man domain landscape. And they can leverage those investments while they continue to invest with Cisco in innovations. And And that's what That's what really excites me. I think also just the world of a I and ML and big data. And how when excites me is that developers Khun develop anywhere they can use all the great tools that are available. And I love the idea that the control is back in the hands of the I T administrator from a compliance standpoint from a governance stand like we're bringing that control back into developers hands while giving the speed of innovation and the ability to develop anywhere back to the line of business in the developers. That combination is just really exciting at this moment in time. >> Awesome. And here we are in the definite zone. This is a massive community of over nearly 600,000. Strong, definite. So imagine all the innovation going on in this room behind us on day one. We'll we thank you both so much, Barbara, and not for joining stew and me on the kid this afternoon. Lots of exciting things to come. Francisco or just the as I think, Chuck said this morning, were just getting started. >> We are just getting started. >> Absolutely. >> Guys are pleasure. Forced to mint a man, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching The Cube from Cisco Live 2019

from around the globe it's the cube with digital coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back this is the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 of course this year instead of all gathering together in San Francisco we're getting to talk to red hat executives their partners and their customers where they are around the globe I'm your host Stu minimun and happy to welcome to the program Nick Barr said who is the senior director of Technology Strategy at Red Hat he happens to be on a boat in the Bahamas so Nick thanks so much for joining us hey thank you for inviting me it's a great pleasure to be here and it's a great pleasure to work for a company that has always dealt with remote people so it's really easy for us to kind of thing yeah Nick you know it's interesting I've been saying probably for the last 10 years that the challenge of our time is really distributed systems you know from a software standpoint that's what we talked about and even more so today and number one of course the current situation with the global plan global pandemic but number two the topic we're gonna talk to you about is edge and 5g it's obviously gotten a lot of hype so before we get into that - training Nick you know you came into Red Hat through an acquisition so give us a little bit about your background and what you work on Baretta about five years ago company I was working for involves got acquired by read at and I've been very lucky in that acquisition where I found a perfect home to express my talent I've been free software advocate for the past 20-some years always been working in free software for the past 20 years and Red Hat is really wonderful for that yeah it's addressing me ok yeah I remember back the early days we used to talk about free software now we don't talk free open-source is what we talk about you know dream is a piece of what we're doing but yeah let's talk about you know Ino Vaughn's I absolutely remember the they were a partner of Red Hat talked to them a lot at some of the OpenStack goes so I I'm guessing when we're talking about edge these are kind of the pieces coming together of what red had done for years with OpenStack and with NFB so what what what's the solution set you're talking about Ferguson side how you're helping your customers with these blue well clearly the solution we are trying to put together as to combine what people already have with where they want to go our vision for the future is a vision where openshift is delivering a common service on any platform including hardware at the far edge on a model where both viens and containers can be hosted on the same machine however there is a long road to get there and until we can fulfill all the needs we are going to be using combination of openshift OpenStack and many other product that we have in our portfolio to fulfill the needs of our customer we've seen for example a Verizon starting with OpenStack quite a few years ago now going with us with openshift that they're going to place on up of OpenStack or directly on bare metal we've seen other big telcos use tag in very successful to deploy their party networks there is great capabilities in the existing portfolio we are just expanding that simplifying it because when we are talking about the edge we are talking about managing thousands if not millions of device and simplicity is key if you do not want to have your management box in Crete excellent so you talked a lot about the service providers obviously 5g as a big wave coming a lot of promise as what it will enable both for the service providers as well as the end-users help us understand where that is today and what we should expect to see in the coming years though so in respect of 5g there is two reason why 5g is important one it is B it is important in terms of ad strategy because any person deploying 5g will need to deploy computer resources much closer to the antenna if they want to be able to deliver the promise of 5g and the promise of very low latency the second reason it is important is because it allows to build a network of things which do not need to be interconnected other than through a 5g connection and this simplifies a lot some of the edge application that we are going to see where sensors needs to provide data in a way where you're not necessarily always connected to a physical network and maintaining a Wi-Fi connection is really complex and costly yeah Nick a lot of pieces that sometimes get confused or conflated I want you to help us connect the dots between what you're talking about for edge and what's happening the telcos and the the broader conversation about hybrid cloud or red hat calls at the O the open hybrid cloud because you know there were some articles that were like you know edge is going to kill the cloud I think we all know an IP nothing ever dies everything is all additive so how do these pieces all go together so for us at reddit it's very important to build edge as an extension of our open hybrid cloud strategy clearly what we are trying to build is an environment where developers can develop workloads once and then can the administrator that needs to deploy a workload or the business mode that means to deploy a workload can do it on any footprint and the edge is just one of these footprint as is the cloud as is a private environment so really having a single way to administer all these footprints having a single way to define the workloads running on it is really what we are achieving today and making better and better in the years to come um the the reality of [Music] who process the data as close as possible to where the data is being consumed or generated so you have new footprints - let's say summarize or simplify or analyze the data where it is being used and then you can limit the traffic to a more central site to only the essential of it is clear that we've the current growth of data there won't be enough capacity to have all the data going directly to the central part and this is what the edge is about making sure we have intermediary of points of processing yeah absolutely so Nikki you talked about OpenStack and OpenShift of course there's open source project with with OpenStack openshift the big piece of that is is kubernetes when it comes to edge are there other open source project the parts of the foundations out there that we should highlight when looking at these that's Luke oh there is a tremendous amount of projects that are pertaining to the edge read ad carry's many of these projects in its portfolio the middleware components for example Quercus or our amq mechanism caki are very important components we've got storage solutions that are super important also when you're talking about storing or handling data you've got in our management portfolio two very key tool one called ansible that allows to configure remotely confidence that that is super handy when you need to reconfigure firewall in Mass you've got another tool that he's a central piece of our strategy which is called a CM read at forgot the name of the product now we are using the acronym all the time which is our central management mechanism just delivered to us through IBM so this is a portfolio wide we are making and I forgot the important one which is real that Enterprise Linux which is delivering very soon a new version that is going to enable easier management at the edge yeah well of course we know that well is you know the core foundational piece with most of the solution in a portfolio that's really interesting how you laid that out though as you know some people on the outside look and say ok Red Hat's got a really big portfolio how does it all fit together you just discussed that all of these pieces become really important when when they come together for the edge so maybe uh you know one of the things when we get together summit of course we get to hear a lot from your your your customer so any customers you can talk about that might be a good proof point for these solutions that you're talking about today so right now most of the proof points are in the telco industry because these are the first one that have made the investment in it and when we are talking about their eyes and we are talking about a very large investment that is reinforced in their strategy we've got customers in telco all over the world that are starting to use our products to deploy their 5g networks and we've got lots of customer starting to work with us on creating their tragedy for in other vertical particularly in the industrial and manufacturing sector which is our necks and ever after telco yet yeah well absolutely Verizon a customer I'm well familiar with when it comes to what they've been used with Red Hat I'd interviewed them it opens back few years back when they talked about that those nmv type solutions you brought a manufacturing so that brings up one of the concerns when you talk about edge or specifically about IOT environment when we did some original research looking at the industrial Internet the boundaries between the IT group and the OT which heavily lives lives in manufacturing wouldn't they did they don't necessarily talk or work together so Houser had had to help to make sure that customers you know go through these transitions Plus through those silos and can take advantage of these sorts of new technologies well obviously you you have to look at a problem in entirety you've got to look at the change management aspect and for this you need to understand how people interact together if you intend on modifying the way they work together you also need to ensure that the requirements of one are not impeding the yeah other the man an environment of a manufacturer is really important especially when we are talking about dealing with IOT sensors which have very limited security capability so you need to add in the appropriate security layers to make what is not secure secure and if you don't do that you're going to introduce a friction and you also need to ensure that you can delegate administration of the component to the right people you cannot say Oh from now on all of what you used to be controlling on a manufacturing floor is now controlled centrally and you have to go through this form in order to have anything modified so having the flexibility in our tooling to enable respect of the existing organization and handle a change management the appropriate way is our way to answer this problem right Nick last thing for you obviously this is a maturing space lots of age happening so gives a little bit of a look forward as to what users should be affecting and you know what what what pieces will the industry and RedHat be working on that bring full value out of the edge and find a solution so as always any such changes are driven by the application and what we are seeing is in terms of application a very large predominance of requirements for AI ml and data processing capability so reinforcing all the components around this environment is one of our key addition and that we are making as we speak you can see Chris keynote which is going to demonstrate how we are enabling a manufacturer to process the signal sent from multiple sensors through an AI and during early failure detection you can also expect us to enable more and more complex use case in terms of footprint right now we can do very small data center that are residing on three machine tomorrow we'll be able to handle remote worker nodes that are on a single machine further along we'll be able to deal with disconnected node a single machine acting as a cluster all these are elements that are going to allow us to go further and further in the complication of the use cases it's not the same thing when you have to connect a manufacturer that is on solid grounds with fiber access or when you have to connect the Norway for example or a vote and talk about that too Nick thank you so much for all the updates no there's some really good breakouts I'm sure there's lots on the Red Hat website find out more about edge in five B's the Nick bark set thanks so much for joining us thank you very much for having me all right back with lots more covered from Red Hat summit 2020 I'm stoom in a man and thanks though we for watching the queue [Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners come back this is the cubes coverage of Cisco live 2020 here in Barcelona doing about three and a half days of wall-to-wall coverage here I'm Stu minim and my co-host for this segment is Dave Volante John furs also here scouring the floor and really happy to welcome to the program to first-time guests I believe so Ron Daris is the product manager of product marketing for cloud computing with Cisco and sitting to his left is Matt Ferguson who's director of product development also with the Cisco cloud group Dave and I are from Boston Matt is also from the Boston area yes and Costas is coming over from London so thanks so much for joining us thanks IBPS all right so obviously cloud computing something we've been talking about many years we've really found fascinating the relationship Cisco's had with its customers as well as through the partner ecosystem had many good discussions about some of the announcements this week maybe start a little bit you know Cisco's software journey and you know positioning in this cloud space right now yes oh so it's a it's a really interesting dynamic when we start transitioning to multi cloud and we actually deal with cloud and compute coming together and we've had whether you're looking at the infrastructure ops organization or whether you're looking at the apps operations or whether you're looking at you know your dev environment your security operations each organization has to deal with their angle at which they view you know multi cloud or they view how they actually operate within those the cloud computing context and so whether you're on the infrastructure side you're looking at compute you're looking at storage you're looking at resources if you're an app operator you're looking at performance you're looking at visibility assurance if you are in the security operations you're looking at maybe governance you're looking at policy and then when you're a developer you really sort of thinking about CI CD you're talking about agility and there's very few organizations like Cisco that actually is looking at from a product perspective all those various angles of multi-cloud yeah definitely a lot of piece of cost us maybe up level it for us a little bit there's there's so many pieces you know we talked for so long you know you don't talk to any company that doesn't have a cloud strategy doesn't mean that it's not going to change over time and it means every company's got at home positioning but talk about the relationship cisco has with its customer and really the advisory position that you want to have with them it's actually a very relevant question to what to what Matt is talking about because we talk a lot about multi cloud as a trend and hybrid clouds and this kind of relationship between the traditional view of looking at computing data centers and then expanding to different clouds you know public cloud providers have now amazing platform capabilities and if you think about it the the it goes back to what Matt said about IT ops and the development kind of efforts why is this happening really you know there's there's the study that we did with with an analyst and there was an amazing a shocking stat around how within the next three years organizations will have to support 50% more applications than they do now and we have been trying to test this stat our events that made customer meetings etc that is a lot of a lot of change for organizations so if you think about why are they use why do they need to basically what go and expand to those clouds is because they want to service IT Ops teams want ER servers with capabilities their developers faster right and this is where you have within the IT ops kind of theme organization you have the security kind of frame the compute frame the networking where you know Cisco has a traditional footprint how do you blend all this how do you bring all this together in a linear way to support individual unique application modernization efforts I think that's what are we hearing from customers in terms of the feedback and this is what influences our strategy to converts the different business units and engineering engineering efforts right couple years ago I have to admit I was kind of a multi cloud skeptic I always said I thought it was more of a symptom than actually a strategy a symptom of you know shadow IT and different workloads and so forth but now I'm kind of buying in because I think IT in particular has been brought in to clean up the crime scene I often say so I think it is becoming a strategy so if you could help us understand what you're hearing from customers in terms of their strategy toward the multi cloud and how Cisco that was mapping into that yeah so so when we talk to customers it comes back to the angle at which they're approaching the problem in like you said the shadow IT has been probably around for longer than anybody won't cares to admit because the people want to move faster organizations want to get their product out to market sooner and and so what what really is we're having conversations now about you know how do I get the visibility how do I get you know the policies and the governance so that I can actually understand either how much I'm spending in the cloud or whether I'm getting the actual performance that I'm looking for that I need the connectivity so I get the bandwidth and so these are the kinds of conversations that we have with customers is is is going I realize that this is going on now I actually have to now put some you know governance and controls around that is their products is their solutions is their you know they're looking to Cisco to help them through this journey because it is a journey because as much as we talk about cloud and you know companies that were born in the cloud cloud native there is a tremendous number of IT organizations that are just starting that journey that are just entering into this phase where they have to solve these problems yeah I agree and it's just starting the journey with a deliberate strategy as opposed to okay we got this this thing but if you think about the competitive landscape its kind of interesting and I want to try to understand where Cisco fits because again you you initially had companies that didn't know in a public cloud sort of pushing multi cloud and you'd say oh well okay so they have to do that but now you see anthos come out with Google you see Microsoft leaning in we think eventually AWS is going to lean in and then you say I'm kind of interested in working with someone whose cloud agnostic not trying to force now now Cisco a few years ago you didn't really think about Cisco as a player now so this goes right in the middle I have said often that Cisco's in a great position John Fourier as well to connect businesses and from a source of networking strength making a strong argument that we have the most cost-effective most secure highest performance network to connect clouds that seems to be a pretty fundamental strength of yours and does that essentially summarize your strategy and and how does that map into the actions that you're taking in terms of products and services that you're bringing to market I would say that I can I can I can take that ya know it's a chewy question for hours yeah so I I was thinking about a satellite in you mentioned this before and you're like okay that's you know the world is turning around completely because we we seem to talk about satellite e is something bad happening and now suddenly we completely forgot about it like let let free free up the developers gonna let them do whatever they want and basically that is what I think is happening out there in the market so all the solutions you mentioned in the go to market approaches and the architectures that the public cloud providers at least are offering out there certainly the big three have differences have their strengths and I think those strengths are closer to the developer environment basically you know if you're looking into something like a IML there's one provider that you go with if you're looking for a mobile development framework you're gonna go somewhere else if you're looking for a dr you're gonna go somewhere else maybe not a big cloud but your service provider that you've been dealing with all these all these times and you know that they have their accreditation that you're looking for so where does Cisco come in you know we're not a public cloud provider we offer products as a service from our data centers and our partners data centers but at the - at the way that the industry sees a cloud provider a public cloud like AWS a sure Google Oracle IBM etc we're not that we don't do that our mission is to enable organizations with software hardware products SAS products to be able to facilitate their connectivity security visibility observability and in doing business and in leveraging the best benefits from those clouds so we we kind of we kind of moved to a point where we flip around the question and the first question is who is your cloud provider what how many tell us the clouds you work with and we can give you the modular pieces you can put we can put together for you so there's so that you can make the best out of your plan it's been being able to do that across clouds we're in an environment that is consistent with policies that are consistent that represent the edicts of your organization no matter where your data lives that's sort of the the vision in the way this is translated into products into Cisco's product you naturally think about Cisco as the connectivity provider networking that's that's really sort of our you know go to in what we're also when we have a significant computing portfolio as well so connectivity is not only the connectivity of the actual wire between geographies point A to point B in the natural routing and switching world there's connectivity between applications between cute and so this week you know the announcements were significant in that space when you talk about the compute and the cloud coming together on a single platform that gives you not only the ability to look at your applications from a experience journey map so you can actually know where the problems might occur in the application domain you can actually then go that next level down into the infrastructure level and you can say okay maybe I'm running out of some sort of resource whether it's compute resource whether it's memory whether it's on your private cloud that you have enabled on Prem or whether it's in the public cloud that you have that application residing and then why candidly you have the actual hardware itself so inter-site it has an ability to control that entire stack so you can have that visibility all the way down to the hardware layer I'm glad you brought up some of the applications wonderful we can you know stay there for a moment and talk about some of the changing patterns for customers a lot of talk in the industry about cloud native often it gets conflated with you know microservices containerization and lots of the individual pieces there but you know one of our favorite things that been talked about this week is the software that really sits at the application layer and how that connects down through some of the infrastructure pieces so help us understand what you're hearing from customers and and where how you're helping them through this transition to constants as you were saying absolutely there's going to be lots of new applications more applications and they still have the the old stuff that they need to continue to manage because we know an IT nothing ever goes away that's that's definitely true I was I was thinking you know there's there's a vacuum at the moment and and there's things that Cisco is doing from from technology leadership perspective to fill that gap between the application what do you see when it comes to monitoring making sure your services are observable and how does that fit within the infrastructure stack you know everything upwards network the network layer base again that is changing dramatically some of the things that Matt touched upon with regards to you know being able to connect the the networking the security in the infrastructure the computer infrastructure that the developers basically are deploying on top so there's a lot of there's a lot of things on containerization there's a lot of in fact it's you know one part of the of the self-injure side of the stack that you mentioned and one of the big announcements you know that there's a lot of discussion in the industry around ok how does that abstract further the conversation on networking for example because that now what we're seeing is that you have huge monoliths enterprise applications that are being carved down into micro services ok they you know there's a big misunderstanding around what is cloud native is it related to containers different kind of things right but containers are naturally the infrastructure de facto currency for developers to deploy because of many many benefits but then what happens you know between the kubernetes layer which seems to be the standard and the application who's gonna be managing services talking to each other that are multiplying you know things like service mesh network service mess how is the network evolving to be able to create this immutable infrastructure for developers to deploy applications so there's so many things happening at the same time where cisco has actually a lot of taking a lot of the front seat this is where it gets really interesting you know it's sort of hard to squint through because you mentioned kubernetes is the de facto standard but it's a de-facto standard that's open everybody's playing with but historically this industry has been defined by you know a leader who comes out with a de facto standard kubernetes not a company right it's an open standard and so but there's so many other components than containers and so history would suggest that there's going to be another de facto standard or multiple standards that emerge and your point earlier is you you got to have the full stack you can't just do networking you can't just do certain few so you guys are attacking that whole pie so how do you think this thing will evolve I mean you guys are obviously intend to put out as Casta as wide a net as possible capture not only your existing install base but attractive attract others and you're going aggressively at it as are as are others how do you see it shaking out deep do you see you know four or five pockets do you see you know one leader emerging I mean customers would love all you guys to get together come up with standards that's not going to happen so we're it's jump ball right now well yeah and you think about you know to your point regarding kubernetes is not a company right it is it is a community driven I mean it was open source by a large company but it's but it's community driven now and that's the pace at which open source is sort of evolving there is so much coming at IT organizations from a new paradigm a new software something that's you know the new the shiny object that sort of everybody sort of has to jump on to and sort of say that is the way we're going to function so IT organizations have to struggle with this influx of just every coming at them and every angle and I think what's starting to happen is the management and the you know that stack who controls that or who is helping IT organizations to manage it for them so really what we're trying to say is there's elements that you have to put together that have to function and kubernetes is just one example docker the operating system that associated with it that runs all that stuff then you have the application that goes rides IDEs on top of it so now what we have to have is things like what we just announced this week HX ap the application platform for HX so you have the compute cluster but then you have the on top of that that's managed by an organization that's looking at the security that's looking at the the actual making opinions about what should go in the stock and managing that for you so you don't have to deal with that because you can just focus on the application development yeah I mean Cisco's in a strong position to do there's no question about it and to me it comes down to execution if you guys execute and deliver on the the products and services that you say you know your nouns for instance this week and previously and you continue on a roadmap you're gonna get a fair share of this marketplace I think there's no question so last topic before we let you go is love your viewpoint on customers what's separating kind of leaders from you know the followers in this space you know there's so much data out there you know I'm a big fan of the state of DevOps report yeah focus you know separate you know some but not the not here's the technology or the piece but the organizational and you know dynamics that you should do so it sounds like Matt you you like that that report also love them what are you hearing from customers how do you help guide them towards becoming leaders in the cloud space yeah the state of DevOps report was fascinating and I mean they've been doing that for what a number of years yeah exactly and really what it's sort of highlighting is two main factors that I think that are in this revolution or this this this paradigm shift or journey we're going through there's the technology side for sure and so that's getting more complex you have micro services you have application explosion you have a lot of things that are occurring just in technology that you're trying to keep up but then it's really about the human aspect that human elements the people about it and that's really I think what separates you know the the elites that are really sort of you know just charging forward in the head because they've been able to sort of break down the silos because really what you're talking about in cloud native DevOps is how you take the journey of that experience of the service from end to end from the development all the way to production and how do you actually sort of not have organizations that look at their domain their data set their operations and then have to translate that or have to sort of you know have another conversation with another organization that it doesn't look at that that has no experience of that so that is what we're talking about that end-to-end view is that in addition to all the things we've been talking about I think Security's a linchpin here now you guys are executing on security you got a big portfolio and you've seen a lot of M&A and a lot of companies now trying to get in and it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out but that's going to be a key because organizations are going to start there from a strategy standpoint and then build out yeah absolutely if you follow the DevOps methodology its security gets baked in along the way so that you're not having to sit on after do anything Custis give you the final word I was just as follow-up with regard what what Mark was saying there's so many there's what's happening out there is this just democracy around standards which is driven by communities and we will love that in fact cisco is involved in many open-source community projects but you asked about customers and and just right before you were asking about you know who's gonna be the winner there's so many use cases there's so much depth in terms of you know what customers want to do with on top of kubernetes you know take AI ml for example something that we have we have some some offering the services around there's the customer that wants to do AML there their containers that their infrastructure will be so much different to someone else's doing something just hosting yeah and there's always gonna be a SAS provider that is niche servicing some oil and gas company you know which means that the company of that industry will go and follow that instead of just going to a public law provider that is more organized if there's a does that make sense yeah yeah this there's relationships that exist the archer is gonna get blown away that add value today and they're not gonna just throw them out so exactly right well thank you so much for helping us understand the updates where your customers are driving super exciting space look forward to keeping an eye on it thank you thank you so much all right there's still lots more coming here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona people are standing watching all the developer events lots of going on the floor and we still have more so thank you for watching the cute [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back over 17,000 in attendance here for Cisco live 2020 in Barcelona ops to Minh and my co-host is Dave Volante and to help us to dig into of course one of the most important topic of the day of course that security we're thrilled to have back a distinguished engineer Francisco one of our cube alumni TK Kia Nene TK thanks so much for joining us ideal man good good all right so TK it's 2020 it's a new decade we know the bad actors are still out there they're there the the question always is you know it used to be you know how do you keep ahead of them then I've here Dave say many times well you know it's not you know when it's it's not if it's when you know you probably already have been okay you know compromised before so it gives latest so you know what you're seeing out there what you're talking to customers about in this important space yeah it's uh it's kind of an innovation spiral you know we we innovate we make it harder for them and then they innovate they make it harder for us right and round and round we go that's been going on for for many years I think I think the most significant changes that have happened recently have to deal with not essentially their objectives but how they go about their objectives and Defenders topologies have changed greatly instead of just your standard enterprise you now have you know hybrid multi cloud and all these new technologies so while while all that innovation happens you know they get a little clever and they find weaknesses and round and round we go so we talked a lot about the sort of changing profile of the the threat actors going from hacktivists took criminals now is a huge business and nation-states even what's that profile look like today and how has that changed over the last decade or so you know that's pretty much stayed the same bad guys are bad guys at some point in time you know just how how they go about their business their techniques they're having to like I said innovate around you know we make it harder for them they you know on Monday we're safe on Tuesday we're not you know and then on Wednesday it switches again so so it talked about kind of this multi-cloud environment when we talk to customers it's like well I want the developer to be able to build their application and not really have to think too much underneath it that that has to have some unique challenges we know security we knew long ago well I just go to the cloud it doesn't mean they take care of it some things are there some things they're gonna remind you now you need to make sure you set certain things otherwise you could be there but how do we make sure that Security's baked in everywhere and is up as a practice that everybody's doing well I mean again some of the practices hold true no matter what the environment I think the big thing was cognitive is in back in the day when when you looked at an old legacy data center you were part sort of administrator in your part detective and most people don't even know what's running on there that's not true in cloud native environments some some llamó file some some declaration it's it's just exactly what productions should look like right and then the machines instantiate production so you're doing things that machine scale forces the human scale people to be explicit and and for me I mean that's that's a breath of fresh air because once you're explicit then you take the mystery out of what you're protecting how about in terms of how you detect threats right phishing for credentials has become a huge deal but not just you know kicking down the door or smashing a window using your your own credentials to get inside of your network so how is that affected the way in which you detect yeah it's it's a big deal you know a lot of a lot of great technology has a dual use and what I mean by that is network cryptology you know that that whole crypto on the network has made us safer for us to compute over insecure networks and unfortunately it works just as well for the bad guys so you know all of their malicious activity is now private to so it you know for us we just have to invent new ways of detecting direct inspection for instance I think it's a thing of the past I mean we just can't depend on it anymore we have to have tools of inference and not only that but it's it's gave rise in a lot of innovation on behavioral science and as you say you know it's it's not that the attacker is breaking into your network anymore they're logging in ok what do you do then right Alice Alice's account it's not gonna set off the triggers so you have to say you know when did Alice start to behave differently you know she's working in accounting why is she playing around with the source code repository that's that's a different thing right yes automation is such a big trend you know how do we make sure that automation doesn't leave us more vulnerable that's rarity because we need to be able automate we've gone beyond human scale for most of these configurations that's exactly right and and how do how do we I always say just with security automation in particular just because you can automate something doesn't mean you should and you really have to go back and have practices you know you could argue that that this thing is just a you know machine scale automation you could do math on a legal pad or you can use a computer to do it right what so apply that to production if you mechanized something like order entry or whatever you're you're you're automating part of your business use threat modeling you use the standard threaten modeling like you would your code the network is code now right and the storage is code and everything is code so you know just automate your testing do your threat modeling do all that stuff please do not automate for your attacker matrix is here I want to go back to the Alice problem because you're talking about before you have to use inference so Alice's is in the network and you're observing her moves every day and then okay something anomalous occurs maybe she's doing something that normally she wouldn't do so you've got to have her profile in her actions sort of observed documented stored the data has got to be there and at the same time you want to make sure it's always that balance of putting handcuffs on people you know versus allowing them to do their job and be productive at the same time as well you don't want to let the bad guys know that you know that alice is doing something that she didn't be doing is actually not Alice so all that complexity how are you dealing with it and what's the data model look like doing it machines help let's say that machines can help us you know you and I we have only so many sense organs and the cognitive brain can only store so many so much state machines really help us extend that and so you know looking at not three dimensions of change but 7000 dimensions have changed right something in the machine is going to say there's an outlier here that's interesting and you can get another machine to say that's that's interesting maybe I should focus on that and you build these analytical pipelines so that at the end of it you know they may argue with each other all the way to the end but at the end you have a very high fidelity indicator that might be at the protocol level it might be at the behavioral level it might be seven days back or thirty days back all these temporal and spatial dimensions it's really cheap to do it with a machine yeah and if we could stay on that for a second so it try to understand I know that's a high-level example but is it best practice to have the Machine take action or is it is it an augmentation and I know it depends on the use case but but how is that sort of playing out again you have to do all of this safely okay a lot of things that machines do don't return back to human scale stuff that returns back to human scale that humans understand that is as useful so for instance if machines you know find out all these types of in assertions even in medical you know right now if if you've got so much telemetry going into the medical field see the machine tells you you have three weeks to live I mean you better explain what the heck you know how you came about that assertion it's the same with security you know if I'm gonna say look we're gonna quarantine your machine or we're gonna readjust machine it's not I'm not like picking movies for you or the next song you might listen to this is high stakes and so when you do things like that your analytics needs to have what is called entailment you have to explain what it is how you got to that assertion that's become incredibly important in how we measure our effectiveness in in doing analytics that's interesting because because you're using a lot of machine intelligence to do this and in a lot of AI is blackbox you're saying you cannot endure that blackbox problem in security yeah that black boxes is is very dangerous you know I you know personally I feel that you know things that should be open sourced this type of technology it's so advanced that the developer needs to understand that the tester needs to understand that certainly the customer needs to understand it you need to publish papers and be very very transparent with this domain because if it is in fact you know black box and it's given the authority to automate something like you know shut down the power or do things like that that's when things really start to get dangerous so good TK what wondered you know give us the latest on stealthWatch there you know Cisco's positioning when it when it comes to everything we've been talking about here you know stealthWatch again is it's been in market for quite some time it's actually been in market since 2001 and when I when I look back and see how much has changed you know how we've had to keep up with the market and again it's not just the algorithms rewrite for detection it's the environments have changed right but when did when did multi-cloud happen so so operating again cusp it's not that stealthWatch wants to go their customers are going there and they want the stealthWatch function across their digital business and so you know we've had to make advancements on the changing topology we've had to make advancements because of things like dark data you know the the network's opaque now right we have to have a lot of inference so we've just you know kept up and stayed ahead of it you know we've been spending a lot of time talking to developer communities and there's a lot of open-source tooling out there that that's helping enable developers specifically in security space you were talking about open-source earlier how does what you've been doing the self watch intersect with that yeah that's always interesting too because there's been sort of a shift in let's call them the cool kids right the cool kids they want everything is code right so it's not about what's on glass or you know a single pane of glass anymore it's it's what stealth watches code right what's your router as code look at dev net right yeah yeah I mean definite is basically Cisco as code and it's beautiful because that is infrastructure as code I mean that is the future and so all the products not just stealthWatch have beautiful api's and that's that's really exciting I've been saying for a while now it's do you I think you agree is that that is a big differentiator for Cisco I think you you're one of the few if not the only large established player and the enterprise that has figured out that sort of infrastructure is code play others have tried and are sort of getting there but you know start/stop you use a term that really cool is like living off the land you know bear bear grylls like the guy who lives down so bad so and and and threat actors are doing that now they're using your own installed software and tooling to hack you and and steal from you how were you dealing with that problem yeah it's a tough one and like I said you know much respect the the adversary is talented and they're patient they're well funded okay that's that's where it starts and so you know why why bring why bring an interpreter to a host when there's already one there right why right all this complicated software distribution when I can just use yours and so that's that's where the the play the game starts and and the most advanced threats aren't leaving footprints because the footprints are already there you know they'll get on a machine and behaviorally they'll check the cache to see what's hot and what's hot in the cache means that behaviorally it's a path they can go they're not cutting a new trail most of the time right so living off the land is not only the tools that they're using the automation your automation they're using against you but it's also behavioral and so that that makes it you know it makes it harder it's it impossible no can we make it harder for them yes so yeah no I'm having fun and I've been doing this for over twenty five years every week it's something new well it's a hard problem you're attacking and you know Robert Herjavec who came on the cube sort of opened my eyes and you think about what are we securing we're securing everything I mean a critical infrastructure were essentially exerted securing the entire global economy and he said something that really struck me it's an 86 trillion dollar economy we spend point zero one four percent on securing that economy and it's nothing now of course he's an entrepreneur and he's pimping for his is his business but it's true we are barely scratching the surface of this problem yeah I'm and it's changing I mean it's changing it could it be better yes it is changing his board awareness you know twenty years ago then right me to a dinner party they you know what does your husband do I'd say you know cyber security or something they'd roll their eyes and change the subject now they asked me the same question so oh you know my computer's running really slow right these are not this is everyone I'm worried about a life hack yeah how do I protect myself or what about these coming off the bank I mean that's those guys a dinner table cover every party so now now you know I just make something up I don't do cybersecurity I just you know a tort or a jipner's you've been to this business forever I can't remember have I ever asked you the superhero question what is that your favorite superhero that's a tough one there's all the security guys I know they like it's always dreamed about saving the world [Laughter] you're my superhero man I love what you do I think you've a great asset for Cisco and Cisco's customers really thanks TK give us a final word if people want to you know find out more about about what Cisco's doing read more of what you're working on but what's some of the best resource I have to go do you know just drop by the web pages I mean everything's published out that like I said even even for the super nerdy you know we published all our our laurs security analytics papers I think we're over 50 papers published in the last 12 years TK thank you so much always a pleasure to catch alright yeah and a travels thank you so much for de Villante I'm Stu Mittleman John furrier is also in the house we will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco live 20/20 in Barcelona thanks for watching the keys [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020s brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage it's our fourth day of four days of coverage here in Barcelona Spain for Cisco live 2020 I'm John Faria my co-host to many men to great guests here in the dev net studio where the cube is sitting all week long been packed with action mindy Whaley senior director developer experiences but dev net and partner a senior director welcome back to this cube good to see you guys glad to be here so we've had a lot of history with you guys what from day one yes watching def net from an idea of hey we should develop earthing you also have definite create yes separate more developer focused definite is Cisco's developer environment we've been here from the beginning what a progression congratulations on the success thank you thank you so much it's great to be here in Barcelona with everybody here you know learning in the workshops and we just love these times to connect with our community at Cisco live and it definitely ate what you mentioned which is coming up in March so it's right around the corner def net zone which we're in it's been really robust spins it's been the top of the show every year and it gets bigger and the sessions are packed because people are learning developers new developers as well as Cisco engineers who were certified coming in getting new skills as the modern cloud hybrid environments are new skills is a technology shift yeah exactly and what we have in the definite zone are different ways that the engineers and developers can engage with that technology shift so we have demos around IOT and security and showing how you know to prevent threats from attacking the Industrial routers and things like that we have coding workshops from you know beginning intro to Python intro to get all the way up through advanced like kubernetes topics and things like that so people can really dive in with what they're looking for and this year we're really excited because we have the new definite certifications with those exams coming out right around the corner in February so a lot of people are here saying I'm ready to skill up for those exams I'm starting to dive into this topic well Susie we was on she's the chief of deaf net among other things and she said there's gonna be a definite 500 the first 500 certifications of deaf net are gonna be kind of like the Hall of Fame or you know the inaugural or founder certifications so can you explain what this it means it's not a definite certification badge it's a series of write different sir can you deeper in then yeah just like we have our you know existing network certifications which are so respected and loved around the world people get CCIE tattoos and things just like there's an associate and professional and expert level on the networking truck there's now a definite associate a definite professional and coming soon definite expert and then there's also specialist badges which help you add specific skills like data center automation IOT WebEx so it's a whole new set of certifications that are more focused on the software so there are about 80 80 % software skills 20 percent knowledge of networking and then how you really connect up and down the stock so these are new certifications not replacing anything all the same stuff they're new they're part of the same program they have the same rigor the same kind of tests they actually have ways to enter weave with the existing networking certifications because we want people to do both skill paths right to build this new IT team of the future and so it's a completely new set of exams the exams are gonna be available to take February 24th and you can start signing up now so with the definite 500 you know that's gonna be a special recognition for the first 500 people who get dead note certifications it'll be a lifetime achievement they'll always be in the definite 500 right and I've had people coming up and telling me you know I'm signed up for the first day I'm taking my exams on the first day I'm trying to get into them you and I only always want to be on the lift so I think we might be on them and what's really great is with the certifications we've heard from people in the zone that they've been coming and taking classes and learning these skills but they didn't have a specific way to map that to their career path to get rewarded at work you know to have that sort of progression and so with the certifications they really will have that and it's also really important for our partners and par is doing a lot of work with certifications and partners yeah definitely that would love to hear a little bit we've interviewed on the cube over the years some of the definite partners from a technology standpoint of course the the channels ecosystem hugely important to Cisco's business gives the update as to you know definite partnering as well as what will these certifications mean to both the technology and go to market partners yeah the wonderful thing about this is it really demonstrates Cisco's embracement of software and making sure that we're providing that common language for software developers and networkers to bring the two together and what we've found is that our partners are at different levels of maturity along that progression of program ability and this new definite specialization which is anchored in the individuals that are now certified at that partner allow them to demonstrate from a go-to-market standpoint from a recognition standpoint that as a practice they have these skills and look at the end of the day it's all about delivering what our customers need and our customers are asking us for significant help in automation digital transformation they're trying to drive new business outcomes and this this will provide that recognition on on who to partner with in the market it's so important I remember when Cisco helped a lot of the partner ecosystem build data center practices went from the silos and now embracing you've got the hardware the software we're talking multi cloud it's the practice that is needed today going forward to help customers with where they're going it really is and and another benefit that we're finding and talking to our partners is we're packaging this up and rolling it out is not only will it help them from a recognition standpoint from a practice standpoint and from a competitive differentiation standpoint but it'll also help them attract challenge I mean it's no secret there is a talent shortage right now if you talk to any CEO that's top of mind and how these partners are able to attract these new skills and attract smart people smart people like working on smart things right and so this has really been a big traction point for them as well it's also giving ways to really specifically train for new job roles so some of the ways that you can combine the new definite certifications with the network engineering certifications we've looked at it and said you know there's there's a role of Network automation developer that's a new role everyone we ask in one of our sessions who needs that person on their team so many customers partners raise their hands like we want the network Automation developer on our team and you can combine you know your CCNP Enterprise with a definite certification and build up the skills to be that Network automation developer certainly has been great buzz I got to get your guys thoughts because certainly it's for careers and you guys are betting on the the people and the people are betting on Cisco mm-hmm yes this is what's going on submit surety of Devin it almost it's like a pinch me moment for you guys because you continue to grow I got to ask you what are some of the cool things that you're showing here as you mature you still have the start here session which is intro to Python and other things pretty elementary and then there's more advanced things what are some of the new things that's going on yeah that you could share so some of the new things we've got going on and one of my favorites is the IOT insecurity demonstration there's a an industrial robot arm that's picking and placing things and you can see how it's connected to the network and then something goes wrong with that robot alarm and then you can actually show how you can use the software and security tools to see was there code trying to access you know something that that robot was it was using it's getting in the way of it working so you could detect threats and move forward on that we also have a whole automation journey that starts from modeling your network to testing to how you would deploy automation to a deep dive on telemetry and then ends with multi domain automation so really helping engineers like look at that whole progression that's been that's been really popular Park talked about the specialization which ones are more popular or entry-level which ones are people coming into getting certified first network engineering automation first or what's the yeah so we're so the program is going to roll out with three different levels one is a specialized level the second is an advanced level and then we'll look to that third level again they're anchored in the in the individual certs and so as we look for that entry level it's really all about automation right I mean some things you take for granted but you still need these new skills to be able to automate and scale and have repeatable scalable benefits from that this the second tier will be more cross-domain and that's where we're really thinking that an additional skill set is needed to deliver dashboard experience compliance experiences and then that next level again we'll anchor towards the expert level that's coming out but one thing I want to point out is in addition to just having the certified people on staff they also have to demonstrate that they have a practice around it so it's not just enough to say I've passed an exam as we work with them to roll out the practice and they earn the badge they're demonstrating that they have the full methodology in place so that it really there's a lot behind it that means we can't be in the 500 list then even if a 500 list I don't know that the cube would end up being specialized its advertising no seriously all fun it's all fun it's Cisco live in Europe is there a difference between European and USD seeing any differences in geographic talent you know in the first couple years we did it I think there was a bigger difference it felt like there were different topics that were very popular in the US slightly different in Europe last year and this year I feel like they have converged it's it's the same focus on DevOps automation security as a huge focus in both places and it also feels like the the interest and level of the people attending has also converged it's really similar congratulations been fun to watch the rise and success of Devon it continues to be strong how see in the hub here and the definite zone behind us pact sessions yes what's the biggest surprise for you guys in terms of things that you didn't expect or some of the success what's what's jumped out yeah I think you know one of the points that I want to make sure we also cover and it has been an added benefit we're hoping it would happen we just didn't realize it would happen this soon we're attracting new companies new partners so the specialization won't just be available for our traditional bars this is also available for our non resale and we are finding different companies accessing definite resources and learning these skills so that's been a really great benefit of Deb net overall definitely my favorite surprises are when I show up at the community events and I hear from someone I met last year what the what they went back and did and the change that they drove and they come in their company and I think we're seeing those across the board of people who start a grassroots movement take back some new ideas really create change and then they come back and we get to hear about that from them those are my favorite surprises and I tell you we've known for years how important the developer is but I think the timing on this has been perfect because it is no longer just oh the developer has some tools that they like in the corner the developer connected to the business and driving things forward exactly so perfect timing congratulations on this certification their thing that's been great is that our at Cisco itself we now have API is across the whole portfolio and up and down the stock so that's been a wonderful thing to see come together because it opens up possibilities for all these developers so Cisco's API first company we are building it guys everywhere we can and and that the community is is taking them and finding creative things to build it's been fun to watch you guys change Cisco but also impact customers has been great to watch far many thanks for coming up yeah games live coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco live 20/20 I'm John Ford Dave Dave Alon face to many men we right back with more after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners hello and welcome back to the cubes live coverage here at Cisco live 20/20 and partial into Spain I'm John first evening men cube coverage we've got a lot of stuff going on with Cisco multi-cloud and cloud technologies of clarification of Cisco's happening in real time is happening right now cloud is here here to stay we got two great guests to unpack what's going on in cloud native and networking and applications as the modern infrastructure and software evolves we got eugene kim global product marketing and compute storage at cisco global part of marketing manager and fabio corey senior director cloud solutions marketing guys great comeback great thanks for coming back appreciate it thanks very much great to see a lot of guys so probably we've had multiple conversations and usually even out from the sales force given kind of the that the discussion and the motivation cloud is big it's here it's here to stay it's changing Cisco API first we hear and all the products it's changing everything what's the story now what's going on I would say you know the reason why we're so excited about the launch here in Barcelona it's because this time it's all about the application experience I mean the last two years we've been announcing some really exciting stuff in the cloud space right think about all the announcements with the AWS the Google's the Azure so the world but this time it really boils down to making sure that is incredibly hyper distributed world well there is an application explosion ultimately we will help for the right operations tools and infrastructure management tools to ensure that the right application experience will be guaranteed for the end customer and that's incredibly important because at the end what really really matters is that you will ensure the best possible digital experience to your customer otherwise ultimately nothing is gonna work and of course you're going to lose your brand and your customers one of the main stories that we're covering is the transformation of the industry also Cisco and one of the highlights to me was the opening keynote you had app dynamics first not networking normally it's like what's under the hood the routers and the gear no it was about the applications this is the story we're seeing it's kind of a quiet unveiling it's not yet a launch but it's evolving very quickly can you share what's going on behind this all this absolutely it's exactly along the lines of what I was saying a second ago in the end that the reason why we're driving the announcement if you want from the application experience side of the house is because without dynamics we already have a very very powerful application performance measurement tool which it's evolving extremely rapidly first of all after Amex can correlate not just the application performance to some technology kpi's but to true actual business KPIs so AB dynamics can give you for instance the real-time visibility of say a marketing funnel conversion rates transactions that you're having in your in your business operation now we're introducing an incredibly powerful new capability that takes the bar to a whole new level and that's the dynamics experience journey Maps what are those it's actually the ability of focusing not so much on front-ends and backends and databases performances but really focusing on what the user is seeing in front of his or her screen and so what really matters is capturing the journey that a given user of your application is is being and understanding whether the experience is the one that you want to deliver oh you have like a sudden drop of somewhere and you know why that is important because in the end we've been talking about is it a problem of the application performance user performance well it could be a badly designed page how do you know and so this is a very precious information is that were giving to application developers not just to the IT ops guys that is incredibly precious to get this in so you just brought up that journey so that's part of the news so just break down real quick one minute yeah what the news is yeah so we have three components the first one as you as you correctly pointed out is really introduction the application journey Maps right the experience journey Maps that's very very important the second is we are actually integrating after am it's with the inter-site action inter-site optimization manager the workload team is a workload promisor and so because there is a change of data between the two now you are in a position to immediately understand whether you have an application problem we have a workload problem or infrastructure problem which is ultimate what you really need to do as quickly as you can and thirdly we have introduced a new version of our hyper flex platform which is hyper-converged flat G flat for Cisco with a fully containerized version we tax free if you want as well there is a great platform for containerized application of parameter so you teen when I've been talking to customers last few years when they go through their transformational journey there's the modernization they need to do the patterns I've seen most successful is first you modernize the platform often HCI is you know and often for that it really simplifies the environment you know reduces the silos and has more of that operational model that looks closer to what the cloud experience is and then if I've got a good platform then I can modernize the applications on top of it but often those two have been a little bit disconnected it feels like the announcements now that they are coming together what are you seeing what are you hearing how is your solution set solving this issue yeah exactly I mean as we've been talking to our customers love them are going through different application modernisations and kubernetes and containers is extremely important to them and to build a container cloud on Prem is extremely one of their needs and so there's three distinctive requirements that they've kind of talked to us about a lot of it has to be able to it's got to be very simple very turnkey and a fully integrated ready to turn on the other one is something that's very agile right very DevOps friendly and the third being a very economic container cloud on Prem as far we mentioned high flex application platform takes our hyper-converged system and builds on top of it a integrated kubernetes platform to deliver a container as a service type capability and it provides a full stack fully supported element platform for our customers and the one of the best great aspects of is that's all managed from inside from the physical infrastructure to the hyper-converged layer to all the way to the container management so it's very exciting to have that full stack management and insight as well yeah it's great to you know John and I have been following this kubernetes wave you know since the early early days Fabio mentioned integrations with the Amazons and Google's the world because you know a few years ago you talked to customers and they're like oh well I'm just gonna build my own urbanity right back nobody ever said that is easy now just delivering at his service seems to be the way most people wanted so if I'm doing it on Amazon or Google they've got their manage service that I could do that or that they're through partners they're working with so explain what you're doing to make it simpler in the data center environment because I'm tram absolutely is a piece of that hybrid equation the customers need yes so essentially from the customer experience perspective as I mentioned it's very fairly turnkey right from the hyper flicks application platform we're taking our hyper grew software we're integrating a application virtualization layer on top of it Linux KVM based and then on top of that we're integrating the kubernetes stack on top as well and so in essence right it's a fully curated kubernetes stack right it has all the different elements from the networking from the storage elements and and providing that in a very turnkey way and as I mentioned the inner site management is really providing that simplicity that customers need for that management ok Fabio this the previous announcement you've made with the public clouds yeah this just ties into those hybrid environments that's exactly you know a few years ago people like oh is there gonna be a distribution that wins in kubernetes we don't think that's the answer but still I can't just move between kubernetes you know seamlessly yet but this is moving towards that direction so a lot of customers want to have a very simple implementation at the same time they want of course a multi cloud approach and I really care about you know marking the difference between you know multi-cloud hybrid cloud there's been a lot of confusion but if you think about it multi cloud is really rooted into the business need of harnessing innovation from whatever it comes from you know the different clouds PV different things and you know what they do today tomorrow it could even change so people want option maladie so they want a very simple implementation that's integrated with public cloud providers that simplifies their life in terms of networking security and application of workload management and we've been executing towards that goal to fundamentally simplify the operations of these pretty complex kind of hybrid environments I want you to nail that operations on ibrid that's where multi cloud comes in absolutely just a connection point absolutely you're not a shitty mice no isn't a shit so in order to fulfill your business like your I know business needs you then you have a hybrid problem and you want to really kind of have a consistent production rate environment between fins on Prem that you own and control versus things that you use and you want to control better now of course there are different school of thoughts but most of the customers who are speaking with really want to expand their governance and technology model right to the cloud as opposed to absorb in different ways of doing things from each and every clock I want to unpack a little bit of what you said earlier about the knowing where the problem is because a lot of times it's a point the finger at the other first and where's it's the application problem isn't a problem so I want to get into that but first I want to understand the hyper flex application platform Eugene if you could just share the main problem that you guys saw what did some of the pain points that customers had what problems does the AP solve yeah as I mentioned it's really the platform for our customers to modernize their applications on right and it addresses those things that they're looking for as far as the economics right really the ability to provide a full stack container experience without having to you know but you know bringing any third party hypervisor licenses as well as support cost so that's fully integrated there you have your integrated hyper-converged storage capability you have the cloud-based management and that's really developing you providing that developer DevOps simplicity from the data Julie that they're looking for internally as well as for their product production environments and then the other aspect is its simplicity to be able to manage all this right in the entire lifecycle management as well so it's the operational side of the whole yeah uncovers Papio on the application side where the problem is because this is where I'm a little bit skeptical you know normally rightfully so but I can see in a problem where it's like whose fault is it gasification is problem or the network I mean it runs into more serious workloads the banking app that's having trouble how do you know where it what the problem is and how do you solve that problem what what's going on for that specific issue absolutely and you know the name of the game here is breaking down this operational side right and I love what our app dynamics VP GM Danny winoker said you know it has this terminology beast DevOps which you know may sound like an interesting acrobatics but it's absolutely true the business has to be part of this operational kind of innovation because as you said you know developer edges you know drops their containers and their code to the IET ops team but you don't really know whether the problem a certain point is gonna be in the code or in how the application is actually deployed or maybe a server that doesn't have enough CPU so in the end it boils down to one very important thing you have to have visibility inside and take action and every layer of the stack I mean instrumentation absolutely there are players that only do it in their software overlay domain the problem is very often these kind of players assume that underneath links are fine and very often they're not so in the end this visibility inside inaction is the loop that everybody is going after these days to really get to the next if you want generational operation where you gotta have a constant feedback loop and making it more faster and faster because in the end you can only win in the marketplace right regardless of your IT ops if you're faster than your competitor well still still was questioning the GM of AppDynamics running observability and he's like no it's not to feature it's everywhere so he his comment was yeah but serve abilities don't really talk about it because it's big din do you agree with that absolutely it has to be at every layer of the stack and only if you have visibility inside an action through the entire stack from the software all the way to the infrastructure level that you can solve the problem otherwise the finger-pointing quote-unquote will continue and you will not be able to gain the speed that you need okay so the question on my mind I want to get both of you guys can weigh in on this is that you look at Cisco as a company you got a lot going on I mean a guy's huge customer base core routers - no applications there's a lot going on a lot of a lot of complexity you got IOT security Ramirez talked about that you got the WebEx rooms got totally popular it's kind of got a lot of glam to it having the WebEx kind of you know I guess what virtual presence was yeah telepresence kind of model and then you get cloud is there a mind share within the company around how cloud is baked into everything because you can't do IOT edge without having some sort of cloud operational things so there's stuff you're talking about is not just a division it's kind of gonna it's kind of threads everywhere across Cisco what's the what's the mind share right now within the Cisco teams and also customers around clarification well I would say it's it's a couple of dimension the first one is the cloud is one of the critical domains of this multi domain architecture that of course is the cornerstone of Cisco's technology strategy right if you think about it it's all about connecting users to applications wherever they are and not just the user the applications themselves like if you look at the latest stats from IDC 58% of workloads is heading to the public cloud and to the edge it's like the data center is literally exploding in many different directions so you have this highly distributed kind of fabric guess what sits in between all these applications and microservices is a secure network and that's exactly what we're executing upon now that's the first kind of consideration the second is if you look at the other silver line most of the Cisco technology innovation is also going a direction of absorbing cloud as a simplified way of managing all the components or the infrastructure you look at the IP flex ap is actually managed by inter site which is a SAS kind of component this journey started a long time ago with Cisco Meraki and then of course we have SAS properties like WebEx everything else is kind of absolutely migrants reporter we've been reporting eugen that from years ago we saw the movement where api's are starting to come in when you go back five years ago not a lot of the gear and stuff at Cisco had api's now you got api's building into all the new products that's right you see the software shift with you know you know intent-based networking to AppDynamics it's interesting it's you're seeing kind of this agile mindset this is some of you and I talk about all the time but agile now is the new model is it ready for customers I mean the normal Enterprise is still got the infrastructure and application it's separated okay how do I bring it together what are you guys seeing the customer base what's going on with with not that not the early adopters heavy-duty hardcore pioneers out there but you know the the general mainstream enterprise are they there yet have they had that moment of awakening yeah I mean I think they they are there because fundamentally it's all about that ensuring that application experience and you can only ensure that application experience right by having your application teams and your structure teams work together and that's what's exciting you mentioned the API is and what we've done there with AppDynamics integrating with inter-site workload optimizer as Fabio mentioned it's all about visibility inside action and what app dynamics is provides providing that business and end-user application performance experience visibility inner sites giving you know visibility on the underlining workload and the resources whether it's on Prem in your you know drive data center environment or in different type of cloud providers so you get that full stack visibility right from the application all the way down to the bottom and then inner side local optimizer is then also optimizing the resources to proactively ensure that application experience so before you know if we talk about someone at a checkout and they're about to have abandonment because the functions not working we're able to proactively prevent that and take a look at all that so you know in the end I think it's all about ensuring that application experience and what we're providing with app dynamics is for the application team is kind of that horizontal visibility of how that application is performing and at the same time if there's an issue the infrastructure team could see exactly within the workload topology where the issue is and insert' aeneas lee whether it be manual intervention or even automatically there's or a ops capability go ahead and provide that action so the action could be you know scaling out the VMS it's on-prem or looking at a new different type of ec2 template in the cloud that's what's very exciting about this it's really the application experience is now driving and optimizing infrastructure in real time and let me flip your question like do you even have a choice John when you think about in the next two years 50% more applications if you're a large enterprise you have 5 to 7,000 apps you have another to 3,000 applications just coming into into the the frame and then 50% of the existing ones that are gonna be refactor lifted and shifted or replace or retired by SAS application it's just like it's tsunami that's that's coming on you and oh by the way because of again the micro service is kind of affect the number of dependencies between all these applications is growing incredibly rapidly like last year we were eight average interdependencies for applications now we are 20 so imaging imaging what happens as as you are literally flooded with the way the scanner really you have to ensure that your application infrastructure fundamentally will get tied up as quickly as you can still and I have been toilet for at least five years now if not longer the networking has been the key kind of last changeover - clarification and I would agree with you guys I think I've asked the question because I wanted to get your perspective but think about it it's 13 years since the iPhone so mobile has shown people that a mobile app can change business but now if you look at the pressure the network's bringing the pressure on the network or the pressure for the network to be better than programmable is the rise of video and data I mean so you got mobile check now you've got video I mean more people doing video now than ever before videos of consumer oil as streaming you got data these two things absolutely forced yeah the customers to deal with it but what really tipped the the balance John is is actually the SAS effect is the cloud effect because as you know it's in IT sort of inflection points nothing is linear right so once you reach a certain critical mass of cloud apps and we're absolutely there already all of a sudden you're traffic pattern on your network changes dramatically so why in the world are you continuing kind of you know concentrating all of your traffic in your data center and then going to the internet you have to absolutely open the floodgates at the branch level as close to the users as possible and that implies a radical change I would even add to that and I think you guys are right on where you guys are going it may be hard to kind of tease out with all the complexity with Cisco but in the keynote the business model shifts come from SAS so you got all this technical stuff going on now you have this Asif ocation or cloud that's changes the business models so new entrants can come in and existing players can get better so I think that whole business model conversation yeah never was discussed at Cisco live before yeah in depth as well hey run your business connect your hubs campus move packets around that was applications in business model yeah but also the fact that there is increasing number of software capabilities and so fundamental you want to simplify the life of your customers through subscription models that help the customer by now using what they really need right at any given point in time all the way to having enterprise agreements I also think that's about delivering these application experiences for your business small different type experience that's really what's differentiating you from your different competitors right and so I think that's a different type of shift as well well you guys are good got some good angle on this cloud I love it I got to ask you the question what can we expect next from Cisco more progression along clarification what's next well I would say we've been incredibly consistent I believe in the last few years in executing on our cloud strategy which again is centered around helping customers really gluon this mix set of data centers and clouds to make it work as one write as much as possible and so what we really deliver is networking security and application of performance management and we're integrating there's more and more on the two sides of the equation right the the designer side and the powerful outside and more more integrating in between all of these layers again to fundamentally give you this operational capability to get faster and faster we'll continue doing so and you set up before we came on camera that you were talking to the sales teams what are they what's their vibe with the sales team they get excited by this what's that oh yeah feedback oh yeah absolutely from the inner side were claw optimizer and they have dynamics that's very exciting for them especially the conversations they're having with their customers really from that application experience and proactively insuring it and on the hyper flex application platform side this is extremely exciting with providing a container cloud to our customers and you know what's coming down is more and more capabilities for our customers to modernize their applications on hyper flex you guys are riding some pretty big waves here at Cisco I get a cloud way to get the IOT Security wave it's pretty exciting pretty big stuff thanks for coming in thanks for sharing the insights Fabio I appreciate it thank you for having us your coverage here in Barcelona I'm John Force dude Minutemen be back with more coverage fourth day of four days of cube coverage we right back after this short break [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] why Trump Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back to Barcelona everybody we're here at Cisco live and you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we got to the events and extract the signal from the noise this is day one really we started a zero yesterday Eric Hertzog is here he's the CMO and vice president of storage channels probably been on the cube more than [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] live from Barcelona Spain it's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 rot to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners welcome back everyone's two cubes live coverage day four of four days of wall-to-wall action here in Barcelona Spain Francisco live 2020 I'm John Ferrier with mykos Dave Volante with a very special guest here to wrap up Cisco live the president of Europe Middle East Africa and Russia Francisco Wendy Mars cube alumni great to see you thanks for coming on to kind of put a bookend to the show here thanks for joining us right there it's absolutely great to be here thank you so what a transformation as Cisco's business model of continues to evolve we've been saying brick by brick we still think is a big move coming I think there's more action I can sense the walls talking to us like let's just go live in the US and more technical announcements in the next 24 months you can see you can see where it's going it's cloud its apps yeah its policy based program ability it's really a whole nother business model shift for you and your customers the technology shift and the business model shift so I want to get your perspective of this year opening key no you let it off talking about the philosophy of the business model but also the first presenter was not a networking guy it was an application person yeah app dynamics yep this is a shift what's going on with Cisco what's happening what's the story well you know if you look for all of the work that we're doing is but is really driven by what we see from requirements from our customers the change that's happening in the market and it is all around you know if you think digital transformation is the driver organizations now are incredibly interested in how do they capture that opportunity how do they use technology to help them but you know if you look at it really there's the three items that are so important it's the business model evolution it's actually the business operations for for organisations plus their people there are people in the communities within that those three things working together and if you look at it with you know it's so exciting with application dynamics there because if you look for us within Cisco that linkage of the application layer through into the infrastructure into the network and bringing that linkage together is the most powerful thing because that's the insight and the value our customers are looking for you know we've been talking about the in the innovation sandwich you know you got you know date in the middle and you got technology and applications underneath that's kind of what's going on here but you I'm glad you brought up the year the part about business model business operations and people in communities because during your keno you had a slide that laid out three kind of pillars yes people in communities business model and business operations there was no 800 series in there there was no product discussions this is fundamentally the big shift that business models are changing I tweeted provocatively the killer app and digital the business model because you think about it the applications are the business and what's running under the covers is the technology but it's all shifting and changing so every single vertical every single business is impacted by this it's not like a certain secular thing in the industry this is a real change can you describe how those three things are operating with that constitute think if you look from you know so thinking through those three areas if you look at the actual business model itself our business models as organizations are fundamentally changing and they're changing towards as consumers we are all much more specific about what we want we have incredible choice in the market we are more informed than ever before but also we are interested in the values of the organizations that were getting the capability from as well as the products and the services that naturally we're looking to gain so if you look in that business model itself this is about you know organizations making sure they stay ahead from a competitive standpoint about the innovation of portfolio that they're able to bring but also that they have a strong strong focus around the experience that their customer gains from an application a touch standpoint that all comes through those different channels which is at the end of the day the application then if you look as to how do you deliver that capability through the systems the tools and the processes as we all evolve our businesses you have to change the dynamic within your organization to cope with that and then of course in driving any transformation the critical success factor is your people and your culture you need your teams with you the way teams operate now is incredibly different it's no longer command and control its agile capability coming together you need that to deliver on any transformation never never mind let it be smooth you know in the execution there so it's all three together what I like about that model and I have to say we this is you know ten years to do in the cube you you see that marketing in the vendor community often leads what actually happens not surprising as we entered the last decade it was a lot of talk about cloud well it kind of was a good predictor we heard a lot about digital transformations a lot of people roll their eyes and think it's a buzzword but we really are I feel like an exiting this cloud era into the digital era it feels real and there are companies that you know get it and are leaning in there are others that maybe you're complacent I'm wondering what you're seeing in in Europe just in terms of everybody talks digital yeah be CEO wants to get it right but there is complacency there when it's a services say well I'm doing pretty well not on my watch others say hey we want to be the disruptors and not get disrupted what are you seeing in the region in terms of that sentiment I would say across the region you know there will always be verticals and industries that are slightly more advanced than others but I would say that then the bulk of conversations that I'm engaged in independence of the industry or the country in which we're having that conversation in there is a acceptance of transfer digital transformation is here it is affecting my business i if I don't disrupt I myself will be disrupted and be challenged help me so I you know I'm not disputing the end state I need guidance and support to drive the transition and a risk mythic mitigated manner and they're looking for help in that and there's actually pressure in the boardroom now around a what are we doing within within organizations within that enterprise the service right of the public said to any type of style of company there's that pressure point in the boardroom of come on we need to move it speed now the other thing about your model is technology plays a role in contribute it's not the be-all end-all but plays a role in each of those the business model of business operations and developing and nurturing communities can you add more specifics what role do you see technology in terms of advancing those three spheres so I think you know if you look at it technology is fundamental to all of those spheres in regard to the innovation the differentiation technology can bring then the key challenges one of being able to reply us in a manner where you can really see differentiation of value within the business so in then the customers organization otherwise it's just technology for the sake of technology so we see very much a movement now to this conversation of talk about the use case the use cases the way by which that innovation can be used to deliver the value to the organization and also different ways by which a company will work look at the collaboration capability that we announced earlier this week of helping to bring to life that agility look at the app D discussion of helping to link the layer of the application into the infrastructure the network's to get to root cause identification quickly and to understand where you may have a problem before you thought it actually arises and causes downtime many many ways I think the agility message has always been a technical conversation a gel methodology technology software development no problem check that's ten years ago but business agility mmm it's moving from a buzzword to reality exactly that's what you're kind of getting in here and teams how teams operate how they work you know and being able to be quick efficient stand up stand down and operate in that way you know we were kind of thinking out loud on the cube and just riffing with Fabio gory on your team on Cisco's team about clarification with Eugene Kim around just just kind of real-time what was interesting is we're like okay it's been 13 years since the iPhone and so 13 years of mobile in your territory in Europe Middle East Africa mobilities been around before the iPhone so with in more advanced data privacy much more advanced in your region so you got you out you have a region that's pretty much I think the tell signs for what's going on in North America and around the world and so you think about that you say okay how is value created how the economics changing this is really the conversation about the business model is okay if the value activities are shifting and be more agile and the economics are changing with sass if someone's not on this bandwagon it's not an in-state discussion where it's done deal yeah it's but I think also there were some other conversation which which are very prevalent here is in in the region so around trust around privacy law understanding compliance you look at data where data resides portability of that data GDP are came from Europe you know and as ban is pushed out and those conversations will continue as we go over time and if I also look at you know the dialogue that you saw so you know within World Economic Forum around sustainability that is becoming a key discussion now within government here in Spain you know from a climate standpoint and many other areas as well Dave and I've been riffing around this whole where the innovation is coming from it's coming from Europe region not so much the u.s. I mean us discuss some crazy innovations but look at blockchain us is like don't touch it pretty progressive outside United States little bit dangerous to but that's where innovation is coming from and this is really the key that we're focused on I want to get your thoughts on how do you see it going next level the next level next-gen business model what's your what's your vision so I think there'll be lots of things if we look at things like with the introduction of artificial intelligence robotics capability 5g of course you know on the horizon we have Mobile World Congress here in Barcelona in a few weeks time and if you talked about with the iPhone the smartphone of course when 4G was introduced no one knew what the use case would that would be it was the smartphone which wasn't around at that time so with 5g in the capability there that will bring again yet more change to the business model for different organizations and the capability and what we can bring to market when we think about AI privacy data ownership becomes more important some of the things you were talking about before it's interesting what you're saying John and when the the GDP are set the standard and and you see in the u.s. there are stovepipes for that standard California is going to do one every state is going to have a different center that's going to slow things down that's going to slow down progress do you see sort of an extension of a GDP are like framework of being adopted across the region and that potentially you know accelerating some of these you know sticky issues and public policy issues that can actually move the market forward I think I think the will because I think there'll be more and more you know if you look at there's this terminology of data is the new oil what do you do with data how do you actually get value from that data and make intelligent business decisions around that so you know that's critical but yet if you look for all of ours we are extremely passionate about you know where is our data used again back to trust and privacy you need compliance you need regulation you know I think this is just the beginning of how we will see that evolve you know when do I get your thoughts does Dave and I have been riffing for 10 years around the death of storage long live storage and but data needs to be stored somewhere networking is the same kind of conversation just doesn't go away in fact there's more pressure now forget the smartphone that was 13 years ago before that mobility data and video now super important driver that's putting more pressure on you guys and so hey we're networking so it's kind of like Moore's law it's like more networking more networking so video and data are now big your thoughts on video and data video but if you look at the Internet of the future you know what so if you look for all of us now we are also demanding as individuals around capability and access to that and inter vetted the future the next phase we want even more so there'll be more and more - you know requirement for speed availability that reliability of service the way by which we engage and we communicate there's some fundamentals there so continuing to to grow which is which is so so exciting for us so you talk about digital transformation that's obviously in the mind of c-level executives I got to believe security is up there as a topic what other what's the conversation like in the corner office when you go visit your customers so I think that there's a huge excitement around the opportunity realizing the value of the of the opportunity you know if you look at top of mind conversations are around security around making sure that you can make tank maintain that fantastic customer experience because if you don't the custom will go elsewhere how do you do that how do you enrich at all times and also looking at markets adjacencies you know as you go in and you talk at senior levels within within organizations independent of the industry in which they're in there are a huge amount of commonalities that we see across those of consistent problems by which organizations are trying to solve and actually one of the big questions is what's the pace of change that I should operate at and when is it too fast and when is what am I too slow and trying to balance that is exciting but also a challenge for companies so you feel like sentiment is still strong even though we're 10 years into this this bull market you know you got Briggs it you get you know China tensions with the US u.s. elections but but generally you see Tennessee sentiment still pretty strong and demand so I would say that the the excitement around technology the opportunity that is there around technology in its broadest sense is greater than ever before and I think it's on all of us to be able to help organizations to understand how they can consume I see value from us but it's you know it's fantastic science it tastes trying to get some economic indicators but really the real thing I'm trying to get you is Minh set of the CEO the corner office right now is it is it we're gonna we're gonna grow short-term by cutting or do we do are we gonna be aggressive and go after this incremental opportunity and it's probably both you're seeing a lot of automation yeah and I think if you look fundamentally for organizations it's it's that the three things helped me to make money how me to save money keep me out of trouble you know so those are the pivots they all operate with and you know depending on where an organization is in its journey whether a start-up there you know in in the in the mid or the more mature and some of the different dynamics and the markets in which they operate in as well there's all different variables you know so it's it's it's mix Wendy thanks so much for spending the time to come on the cube really appreciate great keynote folks watching if you haven't seen the keynote opening sections that's a good section the business model I think it's really right on I think that's going to be a conversation it's going to continue thanks for sharing that before we look before we leave I want to just ask you a question around what you what's going on for you here at Barcelona as the show winds down you had all your activities take us in the day of the life of what you do customer meetings what were some of those conversations take us inside inside what what goes on for you here well I'd say it's been an amazing it's been an amazing few days so it's a combination of customer conversations around some of the themes we just talked about conversations with partners and there's investor companies that we invest in a Cisco that I've been spending some time with and also you know spending time with the teams as well the DEF net zone you know is amazing we have this afternoon the closing session where we've got a fantastic external guest who's coming in it's going to be really exciting as well and then of course the party tonight and we'll be announcing the next location which I'm not gonna reveal now later on today we kind of figured it out already because that's our job and there's the break news but we're not gonna break it for you you can have that hey thank you so much for coming on really appreciate Wendy Martin expecting the Europe Middle East Africa and Russia for Cisco she's got our hand on the pulse and the future is the business model that's what's going on fundamental radical change across the board in all areas this the cue bringing you all the action here in Barcelona thanks for watching [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]

>>Live from Denver, Colorado. It's the cube covering com vault go 2019 brought to you by Combolt. Hey, >>welcome to the cube at Lisa Martin in Colorado at convo go 19 I'm assuming a man and stew and I are pleased to welcome back to the cube and Alon my who hasn't visited us in awhile, but he's kind of a big deal is the CEO of Commonwealth's on Jay Mirchandani. Sanjay, welcome back. >>Thank you Lisa. Good to be a good too. >>So exciting. This is the fourth go. I love the name go and lots of stuff. So you have come onboard to combo in about about nine months ago and man, are you making some changes? You know the analysts said combo, you gotta, you gotta upgrade your sales force, you gotta expand your marketing, you've gotta shift gears and really expand your market share. And we've seen what Combolt is doing in all three of those areas along with some pretty big announcements in the last couple of days. Talk to us about this, this first nine months here. And really maybe even, I would start with the cultural change that you have brought to a company that's been run by the Bob hammer for 20 years >>right now. Firstly, I'm very fortunate to be here because the company is, it has incredible foundation. The bones of the company, if you would, are solid a great balance sheet, um, over 800 patents, no debt, cash on the books, profitable. It's just, you know, and great, great technology wrapped around some amazing people. So when I look at the, when I look at it and you go, this is this, this is an incredible asset. My role really when I came in when I transitioned with Bob and Al for a period of time was really about making sure we didn't break anything, making sure that we kept the momentum, understood the culture, took time to talk to customers, talk to partners, talk to our employees, shareholders and understand, um, what are the focus areas that we needed to go after. And the last nine months has been about, you know, a lot of learning on my part. >>But also a very receptive group of employees and partners saying, you know, we'll give you a chance. Let's get this done, let's see where it goes. So that's where the nine months had been around and it's been a, it's been fabulous. >> So that's actually one of the things I've heard from your team is you've come in loud and clear with the voice of the CIO. Having been a CIO yourself, that's something you want them to focus on. Everybody, we always talk about listening to the customers, but you know, the role of the CIO has changed an awful lot. You know, since you first became a CIO, clouds change everything in a Nicholas CARF said for a while, does it even matter? Right. Um, so you know, Ferguson side a little bit as to how you want to make sure you're delivering for what the CIO is need. >>Not necessarily what, you know, they were saying that they want. No, it's fair. And, and as much as the role of the CIO has evolved, I don't think it's changed fundamentally. They still, you know, the guardians of the data, the, you know, the compliance and everything else and of course more than anything else, the productivity and the competitive edge that businesses need, technology and business, regardless of which business you're in, are interested intrinsically tied. Your delivery of anything you do today is tied to technology. If you, if you want to be future proof. So if anything, the role of the CIO has only been elevated. I'm, I say this playfully, but I do say it. I said, if I wasn't running this great company that I am now, I'd love to be the CIO of a dysfunctional it organization at a large company because there's so much you can do. >>Many of the decisions that we would spend an inordinate amount of time on the infrastructure, the application, how do you bind it, what are the protocols? Which data center, how much, who runs it, which partner? I kind of dissipated if you're not going to the cloud in some form of fashion, come on, right? If you're not building cloud native applications, come on. If you're not using dev ops, come on. So you've got all this time back now where you're not hopefully having conversations that don't matter and you're really go and building new things. So I think it matters. That's great stuff. And absolutely we agree. We've talked many times on the cube. It definitely actually matters more than today. If anything. Not only did they need to be responsive to the business, but oftentimes it can be one of those drivers for innovation in change in the business. >>Um, I love something you said in your keynote, you said data is at the center of everything you do because right. Most CEO's, hopefully infrastructure is something they might have under their purview, but it's not what drives the business. It's the data, it's the application, it's their customers that matters. So to speak a little bit to the role of data has changed a lot. You know, you and I worked for that big storage company where we even didn't talk as much about storage back about data back in the day. Today it's the life blood of the company. It's everything like that. >> And you know that that is one of the reasons I'm at Convolt because for the past 30 years I've been in technology, I've done app side, I've done infrastructure side, I've done a mix of all of those. And the more I think of an dev ops, I've done that. >>The more I think about it. If I were, if I was sitting with a CEO today and having a conversation about what matters in technology, who's maybe a CEO is not a technologist, I would say data matters. I would say the asset of your company is the data. It's gone from something that you used to manage down, compress deduplicate and hope it went away and you wanted to minimize its footprint to something where you want to maximize its value. And those aren't just words. I mean that is what makes great companies, great companies today, the way they use data to their competitive advantage. So this is, this is exactly the mindset where the mindset, the Guppy do to convo because all we do, all we do is help our customers be data ready. As I was saying this morning, that's, I love that term because that kind of encapsulates it for me. So that's, that's where my head's at. >> Yeah. I mean, we've always said that the thing that defines a company that's gone through debt, that digital transformation is that data drives the business. >>It, it absolutely should, but we're, when you talk with customers that have, whether it's a big university, a research university, healthcare organization or whatever type of organization that has multiple departments, so much data that potentially has a tremendous amount of value that they actually aren't managing well or can't get visibility out of. When you say we want to help you be data ready, w what does that mean to them? >>It means a few things. You summed it up perfectly. That's the world, the customer, the chaos that customers could live in because fundamentally, Lisa, if I had over-simplified applications, we're intrinsically to date data that you use for tied intrinsically to the application to build. So if you had an SAP system, your data was very tightly tied to that. If an Oracle ERP system, it was very tight detail yet it'll supply chain system. You were tied to that. And once data side of getting released from the abstracted, from the system that was built on, you've got a little bit of chaos, then you had to figure out who had access, where, how, how are you replicating and how are you backing it up over the policies, your plan compliance. And then it became chaos. And what I say to customers being data ready, saying do you have a strategy and a capability, more importantly to protect, manage, control and use that information in the way you wish to for competitive advantage. >>Just protecting it is like a life insurance policy, controlling, managing and using it as where you get the value out of it. Right? And so as companies become more data driven, this is where we help them. So the whole concept of the show, what we're sort of bringing to market is the fact that we can help our customers be data ready. And some of the technologies we've talked about today lend themselves to exactly that. Alright. So Sanjay, one of the questions many of us had coming into the show is how exactly Hedvig your, your first acquisition was going to play out. You made a comment in your, your opening keynote this morning that we need to rethink primary and secondary storage. So some of us read the tea leaves and be like, well, you know, you're selling an SDS storage, your, you're in the primary storage market as we would've called it before. >>Yes, the lines are blurring. I don't think those there. So I want to give you the chance to let us know where we're going. Years primary and secondary storage as we classified them, we're looking grayer and grayer mean they'll always be primary storage because there's always a certain user use cases for, for high-performance scale up capabilities. But a lot of the stuff was getting murky. You know, is it really primary? Is is it lower end primary, is it secondary and it doesn't, it shouldn't really matter. And with that, would that segmentation game a set of other capabilities like Oh, you know, file block, object cloud, more, more segmentation, more silo and more fragmentation. And I'm a big believer that this is all about software. The magic is in the software. And if you, if you forget for a minute that it's software defined storage as we call it today, but a set of capability's, a universal plane that allows you to truly define how customers get that ubiquity between any infrastructure that they run. >>Okay. Which in turn gives them the abstraction from the data that they bill. Okay. We've just taken a lot of workload and pressure off the customer to figure all that stuff out, keep whole manage. So I wouldn't get, I wouldn't get wrapped up on the whole storage thing as much as I would on the SA on the universal data plane or the data brain as I called it, nicknamed it in the show, you know, earlier as the left and right side one size, the data management, the other sizes, you know, traditional storage management. Yeah. Maybe I was reading too much in this. There's two brains. I think you've, you turn them sideways. They look like clouds too. But uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, partners wonder if you could speak, you know, we're talking about obviously the channel hugely important, we're going to talk to a lot of your team, but from a technology standpoint, you've got a lot of those hardware providers as well as different software companies that are here in the expo hall. >>Does metallic and Hedvig in those, you know, how will that change the relationships? I mean there's one, I've never built a business in my life that wasn't partner centric and partnerships to me is where both sides feel like they won. They went together. And so I've been very clear with our team, our channel, our board, our ecosystem that we're not doing this alone. That's not my intent. And our goal is to work together. Now we have partners in across the spectrum, cloud partners, technology partners like NetApp, HPE, Cisco. We've got ecosystem partners, the up the, the startups that are building new capabilities that we want to be, they want to be part of our ecosystem and vice versa. Traditional channel. Okay. so we've got the whole run of those, of those partnerships and we've been very focused. But we've also being very clear that we're in this for the long haul with them. Hedvig is today sold through channel and will continue to and metallic is built to be only sold through the channel. >>And you guys also, I was looking at some of the strategic changes that you've implemented since you've been here. Leadership changes to the sales organization, but even on the marketing side go to market. You mentioned that the channel opportunities for Hedvig as well as metallic, but also you guys have a new partner programmed, really aimed at going after and cultivating those large global enterprises with your SIS. So in terms of of you know, partner first, it really seems like the strategic directions that you're moving in are really underscoring that. >>Absolutely. Everything we do, every single thing we do is, you know, the question, the reviews we do, the internal inspection we do with the business. The, the way I look at the, the, the go to market conversations as to uh, the, you know, the pipeline is always about which partners involved, who's the partner involved, you know, and on an exception where we don't have a partner involved. My um, my F it's a flag to me going why? Um, no, we're, I don't know if you're speaking with Ricardo today or at some point he'll, he'll, he'll let you know exactly what we're doing there and how we think about it. And then we've just hired Marissa Rowe, I don't know, you know, Mercer and so Mercer's just come on board as our sort of partner lead worldwide. Yup. >>We're going to be talking with him as well. >>It's a cultural shift folks and we're completely committed to it. 100% committed. >>So one of the things that, that Stu and I were chatting about earlier today that you guys talked about in the keynote is in terms of how quickly metallic was conceived, design built really fast. Does that come from kind of a nod to your days at puppet where you are used to much shorter cycles? And how did, how did internally, the Combolt folks kind of react and we're able to get that done so quick. >>They embraced it. And I'll tell you, I'm, people will tell you that I'm used to saying this, this, this thing. I say that competition and time are not our friends. So we have to, we have to get out there before somebody else does. And if you're coming out with something, it's gotta be better than anybody else has. And so we all agreed there was a need for world-class solution, but we also understood that we had to do a differently doing it the way we've always built something probably probably wasn't the best answer. We needed to go shake things up because it's a different audience, a different delivery capability. But the beauty of the whole thing was that we had core technology at vault that was truly multi-tenanted, truly secure, truly scalable, which we had. This was years of, of great IP, which we took and we built on top of. >>And so we ended up focusing on the user experience and the capabilities of a SAS solution, the modern SAS solution as opposed to putting a wrapper of SAS around substandard technology. So in full credit to the team, we do 90 day releases on our core technology today. Right. So yeah, I think, I think that refresh cycle is what customers expect of us. That you know the and, and then that's what we do today. Right. So something, I don't think it's, I'm not giving myself any credit for it. Yeah. And Sanjay actually we had a customer on earlier talking about that cadence release cycle and he said to Combolt's credit, they're hitting it and it makes my life more predictable when the channels yeah. You know, and so they know when to expect something. So we have a 90 day and Tom will talk to you about this when he, when he comes on, how we get our channel ready for it, how are we enabled them, our own support so we give, so we are completely buttoned up and taking advantage of that release cycle. >>All right. Great. Sunday, nine months, you've already made quite a few moves in the test board, making a lot of pieces there from what we hear, you know, this is just the beginning. Give us a little bit going forward though those people watching what does Sanjay's next nine to 12 months, you know, foretold and as much as you think it's a lot of moving parts that we've, we've changed, um, there we're all part of a, of a roadmap that and so that, and I've been very open and public about it. When I came in there was a lot we had to do and I wanted to be really focused about getting this company back to growth and really helping you realize the potential that it had with, with its heritage of great technology, great customer base, great ecosystem. So I laid out a very simple three point plan, simplify, innovate, execute and tell. >>People are tired of me talking about it and giving me proof points that I'm done. I'm going to keep talking about it. And so simplify is everything about how we use the product, the user experience with us and how you engage with us. OK. innovators innovate in everything we do, products, experiences, everything we have to, we have to challenge the status quo and say it's a smarter way of doing it. Metallic is a complete encapsulation of that, of that energy. Okay. And the last is execute. It's all about getting out there and getting it done. Doing what we say and saying what we do. Just get it out there, get it done. And um, and I think the team has been amazing. They've just rallied around it. And if I embraced it, this is what I think this is what they want. So the changes, sorry, just sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off but it, I'll sum it up by saying that, you know, the nine months have been very focused in the direction making. Now it's about really making sure we help the company and how customers realize its true potential because the technology is great. The people are great. We're a good company. People love our technology. They stay with us forever. Because it does what it's supposed to. We just think we have a lot more to offer. Now. >>I know we're only day one at the show. Things did kick off a little bit yesterday with partners. What's some of the feedback that you've heard from those customers? Either those that have been using vault for 10 years or those that are maybe newer to the bandwagon? >>Well, somebody asked me if I had 10 cups of coffee before I went on stage in the sporting, but I think it's a good proxy for what I feel on the show. I feel incredible energy. I think that the customers, the partners, our own people, it's just, there's a buzz and you've been to shows before and some of them are just, you know, some of them have that energy and some of them are flat. Well this one's just full of energy and uh, and it's, it feels like a lot of adrenaline here and this people are excited and um, you know, I'm excited to go walk the floor. >>Well, your competitors are taking notice. There was some interesting digital signage yesterday at the airport. I noticed that that wasn't okay. I didn't, I missed it. Invitation. Highest form of flattery. Sanjay, >>I got the notice that there's, there's a lot of investment that goes into this. Uh, this, this segment of the market. It's been really hot. Um, what, what's your take on all the startups in as well as the, the, the big companies that have been putting a lot of it that it's an important space, right? Um, it's, it's, it's in the top three to five depending on which study you look at data protections back because it's one thing to have data and nothing to know that it is the way you want it. It's also a testimony to the a, it's not an easy space to get into when you're telling your customer that you're protecting them. That's a big word. Okay. I believe that you earn your way there day on day release, on release. And we've done that. I mean the animals the same good things about as in half a years we had customers on stage, you know, and it, customers don't just come up on stage and they, they really believe it. We have a, we had a pretty decent turnout at the partner event yesterday. You know, I think we're, we're in a great space at a great time and we've got 20 years of, of great pedigree that I don't take for granted as much as people sort of go, Oh, you're an old company. I go, Oh, don't mistake pedigree for anything else. You know, we've got some incredible IP over 800 active. >>Yes. >>You were sharing some of those thoughts this morning. I was looking to see where I put them. How are you guys leveraging the data that you have under management to make combos technology even better and to help make some of those strategic, >>it's this deep learning. It gives as much, you know, we applying AI implicitly. I don't want it to be an AI washing my technology for my customers. It's in there. It just works for them and it's my job to make my product better so they get more value out of it as opposed to for them to bolt on something to make my product better. So I don't, I really don't care what other shit about it. What I care about is I'm building that right into, into the intelligence. We have all the data, we know we, our customers use it, how they back it up, what their expectations are, what the SLS are, what their protocols are. We know this stuff and you, you have to, you know, we've been around enough to know this stuff. So now we're taking all of that with technologies like deep learning and machine learning and making the product better. >>So Sunday, one of the toughest things to do out there is have people learn, learn about somebody again for the, for the second time, you know, you only get one chance to make a first impression. So maybe I'd love your insight. You've been on board for nine months, you know, everybody knows Combolt it has a strong pedigree as you said, has a lot of patents. There's the culture there, but anything you've learned in the last nine months that you didn't know from the outside, he was still a pretty good secret. And there's a lot of people that don't know us as long as even though we've been around in the enterprise and and have have achieved a ton, there's still a ton of customers that don't know us and you know in our chops to get it out there. And if you've looked at our digital presence, if you've looked at how we're engaging online, it's a different Convolt. In fact, one of my favorite hashtags that's a, that that's trending at the show is a hashtag new comm vault. Is that right? I like that one. >>As I say, I might have started it, I don't know. But it is, it's an opportunity, right as to said, you know, we all wish sometimes in certain situations we could make a first impression. Again, I think you have that opportunity is you're saying there's, you have I she was saying close to 80% of, I think I read the other day, 75 80% of Commonweal's revenue comes from the fortune 500 you have the big presence with Bleagh global enterprises. This sustainability initiative that you were doing with the U N that Chris talked about. So there's, there's a lot of momentum behind that as well to take and really kind of maybe even leverage the voice of those enterprises to share with the world the benefits that Convolt provides. Like you said, data protection is hot. Again, if you have the data and it's, and you don't have the insight and it's not protected and you can't recover it quickly, then what value >>or used, if you can't use that know, why does it have to be compartmentalized where you say, Oh, that is my archive. Why can't I, why can't I say that? Yes, it is my archive, but I can, I can leverage that data for other things in my business. Okay. And so our product orchestrate allows customers to discovery to do, sorry, activate, not orchestrate to do eDiscovery, to curate information to use it for R and D to have a policy on sensitive governance needs. There's so much we can do with that, with with the data that's just sitting there, that and from different sources that I believe that at some level, protecting and protecting, managing and controlling our almost table stakes. So I'm raising the stakes uses where the magic is. >>All right, raising the stakes. Well, Sanjay, thank you so much for joining Stu and me on the cube today. Can't wait to see where those stakes are going to be. Combo go 2020 hashtag new comm volt hashtag new comm vault. Thanks Lisa. Thanks. Thank you so much. Hashtag new cobalt for Stewman eman and Sanjay Mirchandani and Lisa Martin, you're watching the cube from Cannonball. Go.

from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley Palo Alto California this is a cute conversation hi and welcome to the cube Studios for another cube conversation where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry I'm your host Peter Buress every enterprise has to concern themselves with how they're going to go about ensuring the appropriate access to those crucial applications that run the business this is especially a key question in domains where the applications our seminal feature of the operations how can we set up IT so users see what they should see can access what they can access and that we have control over all about how these systems work and have that conversation we're here with Tony Ferguson an IT infrastructure architect at man energy solutions Tony welcome to the cube yeah thank you so Tony before we get into this crucial question about the appropriate level of visibility and the need for security between people users and applications tell us a little bit about man energy solutions yeah so we're a german-based company I'm working out of Copenhagen but we're part of the Volkswagen Group we have 16 thousand users globally across a hundred locations our company we we make large diesel entrants you also make smaller versions in our own factory and yeah in our company we have a course a lot of my irt on the actual engine and of course we have corporate IT and my job is to secure all of this infrastructure so specifically some of these big diesel engines as I understanding are being placed in locations and use cases that have an absolute requirements for security for example driving a ship is a major feature of the way that your engines are being used within the world so if I got that right yeah yeah that's correct and yeah and then the scale of this you know the number of engines and the number of vessels we need to access and the data we collect it is critical infrastructure we also have power plants so it's really important that we secure this infrastructure so it's a it's a it's a very it's an infrastructure that has very interesting physical characteristics but also has very interesting security characteristics as you went into thinking about how you're going to improve the applicability of the overall infrastructure that you use to drive your business use cases what were some of the issues that you find yourself struggling with yes so yeah a lot of issues actually one of the first things is that we wanted to authenticate the actual engineer and we wanted to make sure that the right people got to the right assets and we wanted to make sure that a thing dication was strong so like the two-factor multi-factor authentication and we wanted to show that the all the data between their engineer and the vessel was encrypted and another big problem for us is scale we need to scale the solution and one of the one of the things as these get brought for us is namespace routing we had the ability to really scale the system without using IP addresses were actually networking so this solved really a lot of problems for us and trying to get those engineers to all of the assets and the IOT on the engine now one of the things that you noted in your as you move forward was this notion of a black cloud where you could formalize the clock the types of relationships you wanted between your engineer users and other users and the Eric the applications you were running on a global scale basis to actually ensure the reliability of the product you had out in the field tell us a little bit about this notion of black cloud yeah so it ties it into a little bit around zero trust but how I see black cloud and how I would describe it is you know everything is dark right so if there's an attacker and he scans port scans of my infrastructure he won't see anything so so basically we would use their tech surface that means that there's no answer back and by doing this we we remove all these vulnerabilities all these zero-day vulnerabilities were remove this and in the same time we stall out that engineer to commit to their assets now how does that work in an environment that is as physically constrained as you know integrating or networking internet working with seagoing vessels yeah so of course a lot of this connectivity is over satellite and of course it's across the internet so it's important that we encrypt into end and it's important that we allow the right engineers to the right customers and we're able to access all these resources and to do Federation and make sure there's strong authentication for our customers we can we really tell them that this all the similar structure is completely secured dark and it's extremely difficult to to come into this black cloud so you've got a challenge the challenge that we've set up here is that you've got a use case that is constrained by the characteristics of the physical infrastructure where the security needs are absolutely paramount and still has to scale and very importantly be evolvable to allow you to be able to provide future classes of services that will further differentiate and improve your business that suggests that these decisions you had to make about the characteristics of the solution was gonna have an enormous impact ultimately on what you could achieve tell us a little bit about the thought process as you went through as you chose a set of sub technology suppliers to help you build out this black cloud and this application set yeah so we looked at a lot of different solutions but a lot of these solutions were based around the old knit work style right around VPNs around having files and around having ACLs and a lot of this is really network centric and what we were looking for is something that was more application centric something that moved up the stack and started to look at policy around what the user would want access to so putting those users and applications together and create meaningful policy based on the DNS rather than on the IP layer and this was really important for us to be able to scale and really make meaningful policy so in many respects it allowed you to not to necessarily de-emphasize but refocus your network design engineering and management efforts from device level assets and perimeter level assets to some of the assets that are really driving new classes of value the applications the users and the data that these engines are streaming and the models that you're using to assure optimal performance of them have I got that right yeah that's exactly right it's extremely important that that we don't have electrical movement you know we look today there's all sorts of were mobile malware attacks ransomware and you know you can imagine if something got into into this cloud that you wouldn't want to let remove so it's not just about the products but it's also about making sure that all these assets are designed from the ground up that that dark as well all right that even on the interns that they can't speak to each other all these very limited connectivity there Tony this has been a fascinating conversation about how you've taken this notion of a black cloud and applied it to a really crucial business case within man energy but I got to believe that this sets you up for a range of other use cases that the investments you've made here are gonna offer new classes of payback in a lot of different use cases how are you going to roll this black cloud concept using Z scalar out to the rest of the organization and the rest of the work that's being performed yeah it's a good question um so when we first looked at this technology we thought it was perfect for consultants because we could have very specific access policies and just allow them to the SS we will be required but then we also saw that there were so many other user cases here for example we are moving our applications from our data center to AWS and to Azura and as we move those applications the users need to connect to this so where would you have this black cloud and have the connectivity to it but we're not opening this to the Internet so you know as far as you're concerned I don't even have any resources or a service in AWS because it's black it's dark so there's a huge amount of security that we can add to this and then there's also a lot of other user cases like company mergers we had to buy a company so we could use this technology to to move to another company together because you don't need to worry about the network anymore you just worried about getting applications to users so I there's a number of great applications for this technology and I really see that this technology will really grow and I'm really excited about it so moving away from a physical orientation of the network to a more logical application and user oriented services or any care orientated a vision of the network has opened up a lot of strategic possibilities what's been the cost impact yes so it what's quite interesting we when you move to the cloud and move to a company like Z scalar is there a software company so forget about all the hardware you can imagine we have a hundred locations globally so we don't have to install all the hardware we don't have to have VPN concentrators we just have to have some software on the client some software the connectors in the cloud and then Z scalar do the magic so for the business they really love this technology because it is very simple it's sitting in the background they don't have to log on to the VPN all the time so it's very seamless for the user and for us we save a lot of money on buying hardware and appliances excellent Tony Ferguson I want to thank you very much for being on the cube Tony Tony Ferguson's the IT infrastructure architect at man energy solutions I'm Peter Burris once again until we have another cube conversation you [Music]

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi and welcome to the CUBE studios for another CUBE conversation, where we go in-depth with thought leaders driving innovation across the tech industry, I'm your host, Peter Burris. Every enterprise has to concern themselves with how they're going to go about insuring the appropriate access to those crucial applications that run the business, this is especially a key question in domains where the applications are a seminal feature of the operations. How can we set up IT so users see what they should see, can access what they can access, and that we have control overall about how these systems work. No to have that conversation, we're here with Tony Ferguson, an IT infrastructure architect at MAN Energy solutions, Tony, welcome to theCUBE. >> Yeah, thank you. >> So, Tony, before we get into this crucial question about the appropriate level of visibility and the need for security between people, users, and applications, tell us a little bit about MAN Energy Solutions. >> Yeah, so we're a German-based company. I'm working out of Copenhagen, but we're a part of the Volkswagen group, we have 16,000 users globally across 100 locations. Our company, we make large diesel engines, we also make smaller versions in our German factory. In our company we have of course a lot of IoT on the actual engine, and of course we have corporate IT. My job is to secure all of this infrastructure. >> So, specifically, some of these big diesel engines as I understand it, are being placed in locations and use cases that have an absolute requirement for security. For example, driving a ship is a major feature of the way that your engines are being used within the world, have I got that right? >> Yeah, that's correct, and the scale of this, the number of engines and the number of vessels we need to access and the data we collect. It is critical infrastructure, we also have power plants, so it's really important that we secure this infrastructure. >> So it's an infrastructure that has very interesting physical characteristics but also has very interesting security characteristics. As you went into thinking about how you're going to improve the applicability of the overall infrastructure that you use to drive your business use cases, what were some of the issues that you find yourself struggling with? >> Yeah, a lot of issues actually, one of the first things is that we wanted to authenticate the actual engineer, and we wanted to make sure that right people got to the right assets, and we wanted to make sure that authentication was strong, so like the two-factor, multi-factor authentication. And we wanted to ensure that all the data between the engineer and the vessel was encrypted. And another big problem for us is scale, we need to scale the solution, and one of things that Zscaler brought for us is name-space routing, we had the ability to really scale this system without using IP addresses, or actually networking. So this solved really, a lot of problems for us in trying to get those engineers to all of the assets and IoT on the engine. >> Now one of the things that you noted as you moved forward, was this notion of a black cloud >> Yeah. >> Where you could formalize the types of relationships you wanted between your engineer users and other users, and the applications you were running on a global scalable basis to actually ensure the reliability of the product you had out in the field. Tell us a little bit about this notion of black cloud. >> Yeah, so it ties in to a little bit around zero crust, but how I see black cloud and how I sort of describe it is, everything is dark, right, so if there's an attacker and he scans, bulk scans my infrastructure he won't see anything, so basically we reduce the tech surface. That means that there's no answer back and by doing this, we remove all these vulnerabilities, all these zero day vulnerabilities, we remove this and in the same time we still allow that engineer to connect to the assets. >> Now, how does that work in an environment that is as physically constrained as integrating or inter-networking with sea-going vessels? >> Yeah, so of course a lot of this connectivity is over satellite, and of course it's across the internet, so it is important that we encrypt end to end. And it's important that we allow the right engineers to the right customers and we're able to access all these resources and to do federation and make sure there's strong authentication for our customers. We can really tell them that this, all this infrastructure is completely secured, dark, and it's extremely difficult to come into this black cloud. >> So you've got a challenge, the challenge that we've set up here is that you've got a use case that is constrained by the characteristics of the physical infrastructure, where the security needs are absolutely paramount and still has to scale, and very importantly be evolvable to allow you to be able to provide future classes of services that will further differentiate and improve your business. That suggests that these decisions you had to make about the characteristics of the solution was going to have an enormous impact ultimately on what you could achieve. Tell us little bit about the thought process you went through as you chose a set of technology suppliers to help you build out this black cloud and this application set. >> Yeah, so we looked at a lot of different solutions but a lot of these solutions were based around the old network style, around VPNs, around having firewalls, and around having ACLs. And a lot of this is really network-centric and what we were looking for is something that was more applications centric, something that moved up the stack and started to look at policy around what the user would want access to. So putting those users and applications together and creating meaningful policy based on the DNS, rather than on the IP layer, and this was really important for us, to be able to scale and really make meaningful policy. >> So in many respects, it allowed you to, not to necessarily de-emphasize, but refocus your network design, engineering, and management efforts from device-level assets and pre-liminal level assets-- >> Yes. >> To some of the assets that are really driving new classes of value, the applications of users and the data that these engines are streaming and the models that you're using to assure optimal performance of them, have I got that right? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. It's extremely important that that we don't have lateral movement, we look today, there's all sorts of wormable malware attacks, ransomware, and you can imagine if something got into this cloud that you wouldn't want it to laterally move. So it's not just about the products but it's also about making sure that all these assets are designed from the ground up, that they're dark as well, right. That even on the chance, that they can't speak to each other or there's very limited connectivity there. >> Tony this has been a fascinating conversation about how you've taken this notion of a black cloud and applied it to a really crucial business case within MAN energy, but I got to believe that this sets you up for a range of other use cases, the investments you've made here are going to offer new classes of payback in a lot of different use cases. How are you going to roll this black cloud concept using Zscaler, out to the rest of the organization and the rest of the work that's being performed? >> It's a good question, so when we first looked at this technology, we thought it was perfect for consultants because we could have very specific access policies and just allow them to the assets where we required. But then we also saw that there was so many other user cases here, for example, we are moving our applications from our data center to AWS and to Azure, and as we move those applications the users need to connect to this. So we're able to have this black cloud and have the connectivity to it, but we're not opening this to the internet. So as far as you're concerned, I don't even have any resources or servers in AWS because it's black, it's dark. So there's a huge amount of security that we can add to this, and then there's also a lot of other user cases, like company mergers. We had to buy companies so we could use this technology to merge another company together. Because you don't need to worry about the network anymore, you're just worried about getting applications to users. So I think there's a number of great applications for this technology, and I really see that this technology will really grow and I'm really excited about it. >> So moving away from a physical-orientation of the network to a more logical, application and user oriented, services orientated version of the network has opened up a lot of strategic possibilities. What's been the cost impact? >> Yeah so what's quite interesting, when you move to the cloud and move to a company like Zscaler, they're a software company, so forget about all the hardware. You can imagine we have a hundred locations globally, so we don't have to install all the hardware. We don't have to have VPN concentrators, we just have to have some software on the client, some software connectors in the cloud, then Zscaler do the magic. So for the business, they really love this technology because it is very simple, it's sitting in the background, they don't have to log on to the VPN all the time. So it's very seamless for the user, and for us, we save a lot of money on buying hardware and appliances. >> Excellent, Tony Ferguson, I want to thank you very much for being on theCUBE >> Thank you. >> Tony Ferguson's an IT infrastructure architect at MAN Energy Solutions, I'm Peter Burris, once again, until we have another Cube Conversation. (upbeat music)

hi I'm Peter Burroughs welcome to a wiki bond action item quick take Neal Raiden Terry data announced earnings this week what does it tell us about Terry data and the overall market for analytics well tear date announced their first quarter earnings and they beat estimates for both earnings than revenues but they but lo they announced lower guidance for the fiscal year which I guess you know failed to impress Wall Street but recurring quarter one revenue was up 11% nearly a year to three hundred and two million dollars but perpetual revenue was down 23% from quarter one seventeen consulting was up to 135 million for the quarter you know not not altogether shabby for a company in transition but I think what it shows is that Teradata is executing this transitional program and there are some pluses and minuses but they're making progress jury's out but I think overall I'd consider it a good quarter what does it tell us about the market anything we can glean from their daters results about the market overall Neal it's hard to say there's a lot of you know at the ATW conference last week I listened to the keynote from Mike Ferguson I've known Mike for years and I think I always think that Mike's the real deal because he spends all of his time doing consulting and when he speaks he's there to tell us what's happening it he gave a great presentation about datawarehouse versus data Lake and if if he's correct there is still a market for a company like Terra data so you know we'll just have to see excellent Neil Raiden thanks very much this has been a wiki bond critique or actually it's been a wiki bond action item quick-take talk to you again

(energetic electronic music) >> Narrator: Live from Nassau in the Bahamas, it's theCUBE! Covering POLYCON18, brought to you by Polymath. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is exclusive live CUBE coverage here in the Bahamas for POLYCON18, it's a crypto event. Just talking economics. It's all the players in the space really discussing the future. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante. Our next guest, Bill Tai, friend, Facebook friend, industry legend, venture capitalist, kite surfer. His Twitter handle is @kitevc. Follow him. He's also involved in Bitfury and a lot of Bitcoin-related activities. Been a mentor to others. Great to have you, Bill. >> Thank you, John. I really appreciate you having me on the show. >> You tweeted in 2010, "This Bitcoin thing is interesting. "Check out this white paper." Can? >> Yeah, that was a >> Seminal moment. >> You know, back then I didn't know it would be, maybe a seminal moment. I was just lonely. (laughing) So, and the back story there, a very good friend of mine is Philip Rosedale, and he had approached me when he was starting a site called Second Life, where you basically create a digital avatar, maybe of yourself, maybe not, and you have this kind of, you know, world where you have people in an unstructured environment. And in the very early days of Second Life, when people were kind of just milling about, I said to Philip, I said, "Hey, Philip. "You know, maybe we should create a currency." I said, you know like, "If you think about it. "Think about what is Las Vegas? "Las Vegas is this pile of sand "but there is this metropolis on it. "How did that happen?" I said, "You know, if you took ten people, "sat them in a circle, and you put one poker chip "in the system, and said 'Pass it to the right,' "and everybody did that a million times a year. "Everybody would have a million dollars of income. "And then you could take chunks off "and build a casino, and build a resort, "and you'd have Las Vegas." So I said, "Let's do that." And so the Linden dollar was born. And so, soon, there was this thriving economy in Second Life that just, it was quite amazing to see. And so, when Bitcoin came out in 2009, as soon as I heard about it, I wanted to see what it was. So I went to the site and I read the paper, and it just seemed really cool. And so I started to play with it a little bit, and by 2010, I just thought it was really cool, but no one else had seen it. >> Yeah. >> So I took to Twitter to say, (laughing) "Is anyone out there "using this P to P digital currency?" You know, and >> It's funny. Our first web, You know, I started SiliconANGLE in 2009. David and I partnered in 2010. Our first website, the developer didn't want PayPal. He wanted Bitcoin. It was 22 cents, I think, at the time and we used the site for about half a year, and then we changed it and went back paid fiat. But if you think about where these come from, you brought up Second Life. Okay, online virtual world, really ahead of its time, but really set the stage for what we're seeing now. Gaming people who know virtual currencies, thrive on crypto. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So I'd like to get your perspective. Because, I know you've done a lot of investing in mobile and gaming, and what not. Where does that cross over? Because there's been a lot of virtual currencies going on in games. >> Yes. >> For a long, long time. >> Yes. >> How is that influencing and impacting this industry? >> Well, you know it's, I guess you have to ask, when you ask, you know, where does the real and where does the digital, like do they cross? And what are they? What is currency? Is the U.S. dollar real, right? And actually, let me pause for a second and reach down to my phone, because did you see a tweet today from Sheila Bair? I have to read this. Okay, so I just saw a tweet from @zerohedge earlier today. Sheila Bair, on Bitcoin, Quote, "I don't think we should ban it. "The green bills in your pocket don't have "an intrinsic value either." >> Well, look, the government wants to get rid of paper money. The people want to get rid of paper money. Why not? >> What is it really? Right? I mean so >> Backed by the U.S. military maybe, I don't know, I mean what >> What is it? >> What is it? Right. >> That's a good question. >> So I don't really see a difference. You know, they're kind of the same thing. You know, it's just something that people believe in, as the embodiment of value exchange. Whatever it is. So if it's a green piece of paper, or it's not. If it's shell, if it's a pebble. There is a fascinating book that you can read called The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson. He's at Stanford now at the Hoover Institute, but he got widely known after the great financial crisis unfolded. He basically wrote a book called The Ascent of Money which tracks the history of value exchange across civilized communities, for thousands of years, from pebbles to shells, to feathers, to credit, to default swaps. And coined the term "Cimerica," which is sort of the interdependence of the cash flow. And what became apparent to me when I read that, was that the world of ICOs is actually no different than anything we've experienced in civilized humanity. You know, if you think about, even in the United States, in the 1800s, at one time there were over 200 currencies circulating at the same time. If you think about the formation of the United States as colonies, a bunch of guys get off the boats. They draw lines around the forest. Here's Connecticut, here's Vermont, here's New York, here's Virginia. Let's do an ICO. They all did an ICO. If you think about it, they created their own unit of currency per their community and geography, no different than what's happening today. >> When Lincoln was shot, there was a five dollar confederate bill in his wallet, right? I mean, the confederates had their own money. >> Yeah, and also you brought a point up in the conference you were in in Dubai, which I thought was really intriguing, and provocative, but also kind of real. The Oil Dollar Association post-World War II, >> Yeah >> Essentially wasn't actually securitizing oil That was an ICO. >> It was the tokenization of oil, right. Yeah, so, you know, the modern currency system that we have today, that is commonly known as the Petrodollar, so it's actually a relatively recent phenomenon. So if you think about, of course, the quote "U.S. dollar" was around a little bit longer than 1944, but it was really at Brett Woods that the dollar had its sort of birth to become the world's standard currency. And, you know, this is maybe a little bit of an over-simplification, but think about the picture after World War II. So, you basically have every major productive economy have war, destroy themselves. The U.S. enters late, finishes it all off completely, and you basically have 100 million people milling about. A little bit like Second Life, right? So, what do you do? Got to make them productive. Create a currency, set of currencies. So for every community of interest, like every token community of interest, you say, "Well, here's a lira, here's a franc, "Here's a pound, here's a mark. "Let's take gold, "reference the dollar to gold, and reference "every one of these currencies against the dollar. "Gentlemen, start your engines." Right? >> There you go. >> So how is that different than an ICO? Okay, so that was fixed to gold for a long time until people started to game it. And when the French accumulated a lot of dollars and they realized, whoa, there's more dollars than there is gold, I'm just going to go cash all this in. So they literally came over to take all the gold, and then the president took it off the gold standard. >> Dave Vellante: That's right. >> So it had to couple with something. So what it the utility token that that became? That became referenced to petroleum because the U.S. had basically forced everybody in the Middle East to accept dollars as payment and what that did was it created the dollar as a storage of energy. So you could basically take a token of oil and, as a separate nation, you could store that through your trade, if you had sort of a surplus, and you provided yourself energy security. >> Well, most currencies, right, historically have had a pretty short shelf life. Presumably the same will be true in the Blockchain world. >> Don't know. >> The crypto world. >> Yeah, it's, if you look at the history of humans over six million years, and it's arguable it's at four or six, or whatever it is, you're right. Like there have always been multiple currencies all the time. And very rarely have they ever become sort of like super-dominating currencies. That is also a very recent phenomena. I think, driven by the industrial revolution, and a combination of the Petrodollar and scale economics and manufacturing. So, so that >> Yeah, and overwhelmingly here, at this event, people feel like security tokens, as an asset class, are going to vastly overtake utility tokens. >> You know, actually, securities are a whole, I mean regular securities, (laughing) that's an interesting subject altogether. Right, okay, so there was a time, in my lifetime, when I was a securities analyst at Alex Brown in the '80s, and in that period of time, everything traded at ten times earnings, right? So you had a barometer for, a stock should be valued at this, because is should have a PE of actual real earnings. >> Dave Vellante: Independent of its growth or anything else, right? >> Yes, and if it grew, you had a PEG ratio, so you'd have a little bit higher growth, and so a little higher PE, but what's happened to securities over time, of that ilk, okay, you had to get these companies profitable to get them public in that era, and then over time the sort of like network effects have come in, and communities of interest have formed around companies. So, and the structure of securities has moved from give me something with earnings multiply it by a number to get the value, to give me a share of something that has no voting rights and no earnings. Does that sound like a token? That's Snapchat, right? (laughing) >> So you literally have, you know, Google, Facebook, all these companies now issue shares that don't have the characteristics of equity shares. They don't vote. What are they now, right? So tokenization is sort of a natural extension of that. >> Dave Vellante: Do you see that as a >> They don't have dividends either >> You see that as a fundamental shift in the value equation, the perceived value equation? Both? Is it sustainable? >> I think it's basically, so, you know, I go back and forth on this, because is it a trend line or is it a return in the past? Right? So what is a confederate dollar that was in Abraham Lincoln's pocket? It's a belief. So what is a share of Snapchat? It's a belief. It doesn't have earnings >> John Furrier: And a token is a belief. >> Right. >> But the trend is securing something, right? So the trend we're seeing is, obviously the ruling, first of all the ruling in Switzerland was interesting. You now have a trading so an asset, so security, asset, and then trading. So they kind of went a little bit deeper, which I think is helpful. >> Yeah. >> For the community. But what are they securing? So the trend, as we see, is percentage of revenue, non dilutive and equity in the classic sense, so kind of a token. And then some sort of either buyback options, people are doing things like that. Do you see patterns like that? What are you seeing for? >> Well. >> I mean a security token makes sense. It's all credited. The paperwork's known. >> Yeah, so, you know, it feels like, so some people refer to sort of Bitcoin as digital gold, you know, and in that sense, like gold is a commodity but is the root of securities, you know, whether it's gold ETF's or something, because you perceive a limited supply, and you perceive a storage of value, so that is where I think Bitcoin sits. But then I think this whole other category of utility tokens, that may be considered security tokens by definition of law, that resembles the petrodollar. And as we were talking about earlier, you know gold used to represent or a dollar used to represent a share of gold, but it didn't anymore. So what was underpinning it? It was basically, in my opinion, the ability for that token to have utility as an instrument to purchase oil for your energy security. And so, I think that's kind of where the utility tokens are today. >> You're a leader in the industry, and you're well-known. Communities need to thrive. And factions form, curriencies form, and can be very productive, and also can be counterproductive. >> Yeah. >> So what is the unwritten rules that you guys are putting forth. Are people meeting? Are you talking? And sometimes, as people make money, which a lot of people are making a lot of money right now. I mean, for some people, it's the first time. Didn't have money, make money. You know, egos kind of come in. So all of these are normal things. But again, this is a societal community dynamic, >> Yes. >> But super important. Institutional investors are coming in. >> Right. >> Big money. This isn't Burning Man. This isn't. Burning Man's cool, but you can't model this industry after Burning Man. Maybe you could. I don't know. What is your take? >> Well, you know, it's, I think that the guiding principle really needs to be looking out for the greater good, because I think that is the issue that everyone is trying to solve for. And it's not just endemic to Bitcoin and Blockchain. It's a societal issue that's been with us since the creation of civilization. And I don't know how to solve for that, but I think you need people to stand up and just make sure that people are thinking about that all the time. You know, and I think, over my career, I think I started as kind of like a geek hacker, sitting in the back of the room, working on little microchips and building stuff, and I still do that on weekends sometimes, but, you know, for whatever reason, I've been thrust into this role now where I do have a set of communities of interest that started actually around kiteboarding, but it became sort of a larger community around entrepreneurship. And we've actually, I have a 501(c)(3) that supports ocean causes and entrepreneurial things, and it's called ACTAI Global, and we have a couple value statements. We actually, we're codifying it, so we actually have a little pin, you know the ACTAI stands for Athletes, Conservationists, Technologists, Artists and Innovators, and all of us collectively, we combine our energy to work on causes. Some of the things that we support are around ocean conservation and the preservation of ecosystems, but we also work on a lot of other entrepreneurial efforts to help each other. But the thing that I've realized with our group is we've been very productive as a community, and you see a lot of companies that are born in our community, funded in our community, like, you know, whether it's Canva or Zoom, or any number of projects that turn into community-based companies because the group of people, they think and they stand for something greater than themselves. So that's kind of one principle. It's sort of like, how do you, how do you place your values as something to support the greater community, and that's something that I think, if everybody would just think about that a little bit, and stand for something greater than themselves, the world would be a better place. And on that note, the second ethos that we operate to is that we strive to leave every person or place we touch better than before we touched it. So when you see us like kiting at a beach, you'll see us picking up garbage, too. You know? We don't go someplace without trying to improve it a little bit. And I think we help each other on the companies, too. And I think the last thing that people really should try to do, everybody in this world of technology, has a little bit of a superpower, whatever that is. You know, they wouldn't be doing the things that they're doing if they weren't totally insanely focused on a piece of technology. They know something that other people don't. And if everybody would just try a little bit to use the powers the universe has granted them, to empower others, to unlock other people, the world would be a better place. So I think, you know, I think all of these factions, if we could just get people to stand for something greater than themselves, work to make people and places better off than before they touched them, and empower other people, I think we'll have some great outcomes. >> You know, empathy, empathy is a wonderful thing. And also you mentioned, know your neighbor. You know, that's a big thing. We're doing our part here in theCUBE, bringing our mission content. Bill, been great to have you on. And we'll get that clip out on the network about your mission. Great stuff. >> Thank you, thanks. >> And great to see you >> It's an awesome philosophy. >> be successful, you're a great leader. People look up to you, and certainly we're glad to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. Hey, more live coverage after this short break here on theCUBE in the Bahamas for crypto currency, token economics, POLYCON18. We'll be back with more after this short break.