>> And I'm here at Dell's Presence at MWC with vice president of marketing for telecom and Edge Computing, Aaron Chaisson. Aaron, how's it going? >> Doing great. How's it going today, Dave? >> It's going pretty well. Pretty excited about what you've got going here and I'm looking forward to getting the tour. You ready to take a closer look? >> Ready to do it. Let's go take a look! For us in the telecom ecosystem, it's really all about how we bring together the different players that are innovating across the industry to drive value for our CSP customers. So, it starts really, for us, at the ecosystem layer, bringing partners, bringing telecommunication providers, bringing (stutters) a bunch of different technologies together to innovate together to drive new value. So Paul, take us a little bit through what we're doing to- to develop and bring in these partnerships and develop our ecosystem. >> Uh, sure. Thank you Aaron. Uh, you know, one of the things that we've been focusing on, you know, Dell is really working with many players in the open telecom ecosystem. Network equipment providers, independent software vendors, and the communication service providers. And, you know, through our lines of business or open telecom ecosystem labs, what we want to do is bring 'em together into a community with the goal of really being able to accelerate open innovation and, uh, open solutions into the market. And that's what this community is really about, is being able to, you know, have those communications, develop those collaborations whether it's through, you know, sharing information online, having webinars dedicated to sharing Dell information, whether it's our next generation hardware portfolio we announced here at the show, our use case directory, our- how we're dealing with new service opportunities, but as well as the community to share, too, which I think is an exciting way for us to be able to, you know- what is the knowledge thing? As well as activities at other events that we have coming up. So really the key thing I think about, the- the open telecom ecosystem community, it's collaboration and accelerating the open industry forward. >> So- So Aaron, if I'm hearing this correctly you're saying that you can't just say, "Hey, we're open", and throw a bunch of parts in a box and have it work? >> No, we've got to work together to integrate these pieces to be able to deliver value, and, you know, we opened up a- (stutters) in our open ecosystem labs, we started a- a self-certification process a couple of months back. We've already had 13 partners go through that, we've got 16 more in the pipeline. Everything you see in this entire booth has been innovated and worked with partnerships from Intel to Microsoft to, uh, to (stutters) Wind River and Red Hat and others. You go all the way around the booth, everything here has partnerships at its core. And why don't we go to the next section here where we're going to be showing how we're pulling that all together in our open ecosystems labs to drive that innovation? >> So Aaron, you talked about the kinds of validation and testing that goes on, so that you can prove out an open stack to deliver the same kinds of reliability and performance and availability that we expect from a wireless network. But in the opens- in the open world, uh, what are we looking at here? >> Yeah absolutely. So one of the- one of the challenges to a very big, broad open ecosystem is the complexity of integrating, deploying, and managing these, especially at telecom scale. You're not talking about thousands of servers in one site, you're talking about one server in thousands of sites. So how do you deploy that predictable stack and then also manage that at scale? I'm going to show you two places where we're talkin' about that. So, this is actually representing an area that we've been innovating in recently around creating an integrated infrastructure and virtualization stack for the telecom industry. We've been doing this for years in IT with VxBlocks and VxRails and others. Here what you see is we got, uh, Dell hardware infrastructure, we've got, uh, an open platform for virtualization providers, in this case we've created an infrastructure block for Red Hat to be able to supply an infrastructure for core operations and Packet Cores for telecoms. On the other side of this, you can actually see what we're doing with Wind River to drive innovation around RAN and being able to simplify RAN- vRAN and O-RAN deployments. >> What does that virtualization look like? Are we talking about, uh, traditional virtual machines with OSs, or is this containerized cloud native? What does it look like? >> Yeah, it's actually both, so it can support, uh, virtual, uh-uh, software as well as containerized software, so we leverage the (indistinct) distributions for these to be able to deploy, you know, cloud native applications, be able to modernize how they're deploying these applications across the telecom network. So in this case with Red Hat, uh, (stutters) leveraging OpenShift in order to support containerized apps in your Packet Core environments. >> So what are- what are some of the kinds of things that you can do once you have infrastructure like this deployed? >> Yeah, I mean by- by partnering broadly across the ecosystem with VMware, with Red Hat, uh, with- with Wind River and with others, it gives them the ability to be able to deploy the right virtualization software in their network for the types of applications they're deploying. They might want to use Red Hat in their core, they may want to use Wind River in their RAM, they may want to use, uh, Microsoft or VMware for their- for their Edge workloads, and we allow them to be able to deploy all those, but centrally manage those with a common user interface and a common set of APIs. >> Okay, well I'm dying to understand the link between this and the Lego city that the viewers can't see, yet, but it's behind me. Let's take a look. >> So let's take a look at the Lego city that shows how we not deploy just one of these, but dozens or hundreds of these at scale across a cityscape. >> So Aaron, I know we're not in Copenhagen. What's all the Lego about? >> Yeah, so the Lego city here is to show- and, uh, really there's multiple points of Presence across an entire Metro area that we want to be able to manage if we're a telecom provider. We just talked about one infrastructure block. What if I wanted to deploy dozens of these across the city to be able to manage my network, to be able to manage, uh, uh- to be able to deploy private mobility potentially out into a customer enterprise environment, and be able to manage all of these, uh, very simply and easily from a common interface? >> So it's interesting. Now I think I understand why you are VP of marketing for both telecom and Edge. Just heard- just heard a lot about Edge and I can imagine a lot of internet of things, things, hooked up at that Edge. >> Yeah, so why don't we actually go over to another area? We're actually going to show you how one small microbrewery (stutters) in one of our cities nearby, uh, (stutters) my hometown in Massachusetts is actually using this technology to go from more of an analyzed- analog world to digitizing their business to be able to brew better beer. >> So Aaron, you bring me to a brewery. What do we have- what do we have going on here? >> Yeah, so, actually (stutters) about- about a year ago or so, I- I was able to get my team to come together finally after COVID to be able to meet each other and have a nice team event. One of those nights, we went out to dinner at a- at a brewery called "Exhibit 'A'" in Massachusetts, and they actually gave us a tour of their facilities and showed us how they actually go through the process of brewing beer. What we saw as we were going through it, interestingly, was that everything was analog. They literally had people with pen and paper walking around checking time and temperature and the process of brewing the beer, and they weren't asking for help, but we actually saw an opportunity where what we're doing to help businesses digitize what they're doing in their manufacturing floor can actually help them optimize how they build whatever product they're building, in this case it was beer. >> Hey Warren, good to meet you! What do we have goin' on? >> Yeah, it's all right. So yeah, basically what we did is we took some of their assets in the, uh, brewery that were completely manually monitored. People were literally walking around the floor with clipboards, writing down values. And we censorized the asset, in this case fermentation tanks and we measured the, uh, pressure and the temperature, which in fermentation are very key to monitor those, because if they get out of range the entire batch of beer can go bad or you don't get the consistency from batch to batch if you don't tightly monitor those. So we censorized the fermentation tank, brought that into an industrial I/O network, and then brought that into a Dell gateway which is connected 5G up to the cloud, which then that data comes to a tablet or a phone, which they, rather than being out on the floor and monitor it, can look at this data remotely at any time. >> So I'm not sure the exact date, the first time we have evidence of beer being brewed by humanity... >> Yep. >> But I know it's thousands of years ago. So it's taken that long to get to the point where someone had to come along, namely Dell, to actually digitally transform the beer business. Is this sort of proof that if you can digitally transform this, you can digitally transform anything? >> Absolutely. You name it, anything that's being manufactured, sold, uh, uh, taken care of, (stutters) any business out there that's looking to be able to be modernize and deliver better service to their customers can benefit from technologies like this. >> So we've taken a look at the ecosystem, the way that you validate architectures, we've seen an example of that kind of open architecture. Now we've seen a real world use case. Do you want to take a look a little deeper under the covers and see what's powering all of this? >> We just this week announced a new line of servers that power Edge and RAN use cases, and I want to introduce Mike to kind of take us through what we've been working on and really what the power of what this providing. >> Hey Mike, welcome to theCube. >> Oh, glad- glad to be here. So, what I'd really like to talk about are the three new XR series servers that we just announced last week and we're showing here at Mobile World Congress. They are all short depth, ruggedized, uh, very environmentally tolerant, and able to withstand, you know, high temperatures, high humidities, and really be deployed to places where traditional data center servers just can't handle, you know, due to one fact or another, whether it's depth or the temperature. And so, the first one I'd like to show you is the XR7620. This is, uh, 450 millimeters deep, it's designed for, uh, high levels of acceleration so it can support up to 2-300 watt, uh, GPUs. But what I really want to show you over here, especially for Mobile World Congress, is our new XR8000. The XR8000 is based on Intel's latest Sapphire Rapids technology, and this is- happens to be one of the first, uh, EE boost processors that is out, and basically what it is (stutters) an embedded accelerator that makes, uh, the- the processing of vRAN loads very, uh, very efficient. And so they're actually projecting a, uh, 3x improvement, uh, of processing per watt over the previous generation of processors. This particular unit is also sledded. It's very much like, uh, today's traditional baseband unit, so it's something that is designed for low TCO and easy maintenance in the field. This is the frew. When anything fails, you'll pull one out, you pop a new one in, it comes back into service, and the- the, uh, you know, your radio is- is, uh, minimally disrupted. >> Yeah, would you describe this as quantitative and qualitative in terms of the kinds of performance gains that these underlying units are delivering to us? I mean, this really kind of changes the game, doesn't it? It's not just about more, is it about different also in terms of what we can do? >> Well we are (stutters) to his point, we are able to bring in new accelerator technologies. Not only are we doing it with the Intel, uh, uh, uh, of the vRAN boost technologies, but also (stutters) we can bring it, too, but there's another booth here where we're actually working with our own accelerator cards and other accelerator cards from our partners across the industry to be able to deliver the price and performance capabilities required by a vRAN or an O-RAN deployment in the network. So it's not- it's not just the chip technology, it's the integration and the innovation we're doing with others, as well as, of course, the unique power cooling capabilities that Dell provides in our servers that really makes these the most efficient way of being able to power a network. >> Any final thoughts recapping the whole picture here? >> Yeah, I mean I would just say if anybody's, uh, i- is still here in Mobile World Congress, wants to come and learn what we're doing, I only showed you a small section of the demos we've got here. We've got 13 demos across on 8th floor here. Uh, for those of you who want to talk to us (stutters) and have meetings with us, we've got 13 meeting rooms back there, over 500 costumer partner meetings this week, we've got some whisper suites for those of you who want to come and talk to us but we're innovating on going forward. So, you know, there's a lot that we're doing, we're really excited, there's a ton of passion at this event, and, uh, we're really excited about where the industry is going and our role in it. >> 'Preciate the tour, Aaron. Thanks Mike. >> Mike: Thank you! >> Well, for theCube... Again, Dave Nicholson here. Thanks for joining us on this tour of Dell's Presence here at MWC 2023.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Coop Con and Cloud, Native Con Europe 2020 Virtual brought to You by Red Hat, The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem Partners. Hi, I'm stupid, man. And this is the Cube's coverage of Cube con Cloud Native Con Europe event, which, of course, this year has gone virtual, really lets us be able to talk to those guests where they are around the globe. Really happy to welcome back to the program. Liz Rice. First of all, she is the vice president of Open Source Engineering at Aqua Security. She's also the chair of the Technical Oversight Committee has part of Ah CN cf. Liz, it is great to see you. Unfortunately, it's remote, but ah, great to catch up with you. Thanks for joining. >>Yeah, Thanks for having me. Nice to see you if you know across the ocean. >>So, uh, you know, one of the one of the big things? Of course, for the Cube Con show. It's the rallying point for the community. There are so many people participating. One of the things we always love to highlight its not only the the vendor ecosystem. But there is a very robust, engaged community of end users that participate in it. And as I mentioned, you're the chair of that technology oversight committee. So maybe just give our audience a little bit of, you know, in case they're not familiar with the TOC does. And let's talk about the latest pieces there. >>Yes, say the TOC is really hit. C can qualify the different projects that want to join the CNC F. So we're assessing whether or not they're cloud native. We're assessing whether they could joined at sandbox or incubation or graduation levels. Which of the different maturity levels that we have for for project within the CN CF yeah, we're really there, Teoh also provide it steering around the What does cloud native mean and what does it mean to be a project inside the CN CF community? We're also a voice for all of the projects. We're not the only voice, but, you know, part >>of our role >>really is to make sure the projects are getting what they need in order to be successful. So it's it's really around the technology and the projects that we call cloud native >>Yeah, and and obliges Cloud Native because when people first heard of the show, of course, Kubernetes and Cube Con was the big discussion point. But as you said, Cloud native, there's a lot of projects there. I just glanced at the sandbox page and I think there's over 30 in the sandbox category on and you know they move along their process until they're, you know, fully mature and reach that, you know, 1.0 state, which is the stamp of approval that, you know, this could be used in production. I understand there's been some updates for the sandbox process, so help us understand you know where that is and what's the new piece of that? >>Yeah. So it's really been because of the growth off cloud native in general, the popularity off the CN CF and so much innovation happening in our space. So there's been so many projects who want Teoh become hard off the CNC f family on and we used to have a sponsorship model where members of the TOC would essentially back projects that they wanted to see joining at the sandbox level. But we ran into a number of issues with that process on and also dealing with the scale, the number of applications that have come in. So we've revamped the process. We made it much easier for projects to apply as much simpler form where really not making so much judgment we're really saying is it's a cloud native project and we have some requirements in terms off some governance features that we need from a project. And it's worth mentioning that when a project joins the CN CF, they are donating the intellectual property and the trademark off that project into the foundation. So it's not something that people should take lightly. But we have tried to make it easier and therefore much smoother. We're able Teoh assess the applications much more quickly, which I think everyone, the community, the projects, those of us on the TOC We're all pretty happy that we can make that a much faster process. >>Yeah, I actually, it brings up An interesting point is so you know, I've got a little bit of background in standards committees. A swell as I've been involved in open source for a couple of decades now some people don't understand. You know, when you talk about bringing a project under a foundation. You talked about things like trademarks and the like. There are more than one foundation out there for CN CF Falls under the Linux Foundation. Google, of course, brought Kubernetes in fully to be supported. There's been some rumblings I've heard for the last couple of years about SDO and K Native and I know about a month before the show there was some changes along SDO and what Google was doing there may be without trying to pass too many judgments in getting into some of the political arguments, help us understand. You know what Google did and you know where that kind of comparison the projects that sit in the CN cf themselves. >>Yeah, So I e I guess two years ago around two years ago, Stu was very much the new kid in the cloud native block. So much excitement about the project. And it was actually when I was a program co chair that we had a lot of talks about sdo at Cube Con cloud native bomb, particularly in Copenhagen, I'm recalling. And, uh, I think everyone I just saw a natural fit between that project on the CN, CF and There was an assumption from a lot of people across the community that it would eventually become part of the CNC f. That was it's natural home. And one of the things that we saw in recent weeks was a very clear statement from IBM, who were one off the Uh huh, yeah, big contributing companies towards that project that that was also their expectation. They were very much under the impression that Stu would be donated to the CN CF at an appropriate point of maturity, and unfortunately, that didn't happen. From my point of view, I think that has sown a lot of confusion amongst the community because we've seen so much. It's very much a project of fits. Service mesh designed to work with kubernetes is it really does. You're fit naturally in with the other CN CF projects. So it's created confusion for end users who, many of whom assume that it was called the CN CF, and that it has the neutral governance that the other projects. It's part of the requirements that we have on those projects. They have to have an open governance that they're not controlled by a single vendor, Uh, and we've seen that you know that confusion, Andi. Frustration around that confusion being expressed by more and more end users as well as other people across the community. And yeah, the door is still open, you know, we would still love to see SDO join the community. Clearly there are different opinions within the SD wan maintainers. I will have to see what happens. >>Yeah, lets you bring up some really good points. You know, absolutely some of some of that confusion out there. Absolutely. I've heard from customers that if they're making a decision point, they might say, Hey, maybe I'm not going to go down that maybe choose something else because I'm concerned about that. Um, you know, I sdo front and center k native, another project currently under Google that has, you know, a number of other big vendors in the community that aiding in that So hopefully we will see some progress on that, you know, going forward. But, you know, back to you talked about, You know, the TOC doesn't make judgements as to you know which project and how they are. One of the really nice things out there in the CN CF, it's like the landscape just for you to help, understand? Okay, here's all of these projects. Here's the different categories they fit in. Here is where they are along that maturity. There's another tool that I read. Cheryl Hung blogged about the technology radar. I believe for continuous delivery is the first technology radar. Help us understand how that is, you know, not telling customers what to do but giving them a little guidance that you know where some of these projects projects fit. In a certain segment, >>Yeah, the technology radar is a really great initiative. I'm really excited about it because we have increasing numbers or end users who are using these different projects it both inside the CN CF and projects that are outside of the CNC F family. Your end users are building stacks. They're solving real problems in the real world and with the technology radar. What Cheryl's been able to facilitate is having the end you to the end user community share with us. What tools? They're actually using what they actually believe are the right hammers for specific nails. And, you know, it's it's one thing for us as it's more on the developer or vendor side Teoh look at different projects and say what we think are the better solutions for solving different problems. Actually hearing from the horse's mouth from the end users who are doing it in the real world is super valuable. And I think that is a really useful input to help us understand. What are the problems that the end user is still a challenge by what are the gaps that we still need to fail more input we can get from the end user community, the more will be solving real problems and no necessarily academic problems that we haven't sorry discovered in >>the real world. Alright, well is, you know, teeing up a discussion about challenges that users still have in the world. If we go to your primary jobs, Main hat is you live in the security world and you know, we know security is still something, you know, front and center. It is something that has never done lots of discussion about the shared responsibility model and how cloud native in security fit together and all that. So maybe I know there's some new projects there, but love to just give me a snap shot as where we are in the security space. As I said, Overall, it's been, you know, super important topic for years. This year, with a global pandemic going on, security seems to be raised even more. We've seen a couple of acquisitions in the space, of course. Aqua Security helping customers along their security journey. So what do you seeing out there in the marketplace today and hear from your custom? >>Yeah, I Every business this year has, you know, look at what's going on and you know, it's been crazy time for everyone, but we've been pleasantly surprised at how, you know, in relative terms, our business has been able to. It's been strong, you know. And I think you know what you're touching on the fact that people are working remotely. People are doing so many things online. Security is evermore online. Cloud security's evermore part off what people need to pay attention to. We're doing more and more business online. So, actually, for those of us in the security business, it has bean, you know that there have been some silver linings to this this pandemic cloud? Um, yes. So many times in technology. The open source projects and in particularly defaults in kubernetes. Things are improving its long Bina thing that I've you know, I wished for and talked about that. You know, some of the default settings has always been the most secure they could be. We've seen a lot of improvements over the last 23 years we're seeing continuing to see innovation in the open source world as well as you know, on the commercial side and products that vendors like Akwa, you know, we continue to innovate, continue to write you ways for customers to validate that the application workloads that they're going to run are going to run securely in the cloud. >>Alright and lives. There's a new project that I know. Ah, you know, you Aqua are participating in Tell us a little bit about Starbird. You know what's what's the problem? It's helping solve and you know where that budget >>Yes, So stockholders, one of our open source initiatives coming out of my team are equal on, and the idea is to take security reporting information and turn it into a kubernetes native, uh, resources custom resources. And then that means the security information, your current security status could be queried over the kubernetes AP I, as you're querying the status or the deployment, say you can also be clearing to see whether it's passing configuration audits or it's passing vulnerability scans for the application containers inside that deployment. So that information is available through the same AP eyes through the queue control interface through dashboards like Octane, which is a nice dashboard viewer for kubernetes. And starboard brings security information not just from acquittals but from other vendor tools as well front and center into that kubernetes experience. So I'm really excited about Star Border. It's gonna be a great way of getting security visibility, Teoh more kubernetes use it >>all right. And we were talking earlier about just the maturity of projects and how they get into the sandbox. Is is this still pretty sandbox for >>this? OK, we're still very much in the early phases and you know it. I think in the open source world, we have the ability to share what we're doing early so that we can get feedback. We can see how it resonates with with real users. We've had some great feedback from partners that we've worked with and some actual customers who actually collaborated with When we're going through the initial design, some great feedback. There's still lots of work to do. But, yeah, the initial feedback has been really positive. >>Yeah, is usually the event is one of those places where you can help try toe, recruit some other people that might have tools as well as educate customers about what's going on. So is that part of the call to action on this is, you know, what are you looking for for kind of the rest of 2020 when it when it comes to this project? >>Yeah, absolutely. So internally, we're working on an operator which will automate some of the work that's double does in the background in terms off getting more collaboration. We would love to see integrations from or security tooling. We're talking with some people across the community about the resource definition, so we've come up with some custom resource definitions, but we'd love them to be applicable it to a variety of different tools. So we want to get feedback on on those definitions of people are interested in collaborating on that absolutely do come and talk to me and my team are reluctant. >>Great. Listen, and I'll give you the final word. Obviously, we're getting the community together while we're part So you know any other you know, engagement opportunities, you get togethers. Things that you want people to know about the European show this year. >>Well, it's gonna be really you know, I'm on tenterhooks to see whether or not we can recreate the same atmosphere as we would have in Q con. I mean, it won't be exactly the same, but I really hope that people will engage online. Do come and, you know, ask questions of the speakers. Come and talk to the vendors, get into slack channels with the community. You know, this is an opportunity to pretend we're in the same room. Let's let's let's do what we can Teoh recreate as close as we can. That community experience that you keep corn is famous for >>Yeah, absolutely. That whole way track is something that is super challenging to recreate. And there's no way that I am getting the Indonesian food that I was so looking forward to in Amsterdam just such a great culinary and cultural city. So hopefully sometime in the future will be able to be back there. Liz Rice. Always pleasure catching up with you. Thanks so much for all the work you're doing on the TOC. And always a pleasure talking to you. >>Thanks for having me. >>All right, Lots more coverage from Cube Con Cloud, Native con the European 2020 show, Of course. Virtual I'm stew minimum. And thank you for watching the Cube. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: From the cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the cube! Covering IBM Think. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, this is Dave Vellante of theCUBE, and you're watching our coverage of the IBM digital event experience. A multi-day program, tons of content, and it's our pleasure to be able to bring in experts, practitioners, customers, and partners. Sriram Raghavan is here. He's the Vice President of IBM Research in AI. Sriram, thanks so much for coming on thecUBE. >> Thank you, pleasure to be here. >> I love this title, I love the role. It's great work if you're qualified for it.(laughs) So, tell us a little bit about your role and your background. You came out of Stanford, you had the pleasure, I'm sure, of hanging out in South San Jose at the Almaden labs. Beautiful place to create. But give us a little background. >> Absolutely, yeah. So, let me start, maybe go backwards in time. What do I do now? My role's responsible for AI strategy, planning, and execution in IBM Research across our global footprint, all our labs worldwide and their working area. I also work closely with the commercial parts. The parts of IBM, our Software and Services business that take the innovation, AI innovation, from IBM Research to market. That's the second part of what I do. And where did I begin life in IBM? As you said, I began life at our Almaden Research Center up in San Jose, up in the hills. Beautiful, I had in a view. I still think it's the best view I had. I spent many years there doing work at the intersection of AI and large-scale data management, NLP. Went back to India, I was running the India lab there for a few years, and now I'm back here in New York running AI strategy. >> That's awesome. Let's talk a little bit about AI, the landscape of AI. IBM has always made it clear that you're not doing consumer AI. You're really tying to help businesses. But how do you look at the landscape? >> So, it's a great question. It's one of those things that, you know, we constantly measure ourselves and our partners tell us. I think we, you've probably heard us talk about the cloud journey . But look barely 20% of the workloads are in the cloud, 80% still waiting. AI, at that number is even less. But, of course, it varies. Depending on who you ask, you would say AI adoption is anywhere from 4% to 30% depending on who you ask in this case. But I think it's more important to look at where is this, directionally? And it's very, very clear. Adoption is rising. The value is more, it's getting better appreciated. But I think more important, I think is, there is broader recognition, awareness and investment, knowing that to get value out of AI, you start with where AI begins, which is data. So, the story around having a solid enterprise information architecture as the base on which to drive AI, is starting to happen. So, as the investments in data platform, becoming making your data ready for AI, starts to come through. We're definitely seeing that adoption. And I think, you know, the second imperative that businesses look for obviously is the skills. The tools and the skills to scale AI. It can't take me months and months and hours to go build an AI model, I got to accelerate it, and then comes operationalizing. But this is happening, and the upward trajectory is very, very clear. >> We've been talking a lot on theCUBE over the last couple of years, it's not the innovation engine of our industry is no longer Moore's Law, it's a combination of data. You just talked about data. Applying machine technology to that data, being able to scale it, across clouds, on-prem, wherever the data lives. So. >> Right. >> Having said that, you know, you've had a journey. You know, you started out kind of playing "Jeopardy!", if you will. It was a very narrow use case, and you're expanding that use case. I wonder if you could talk about that journey, specifically in the context of your vision. >> Yeah. So, let me step back and say for IBM Research AI, when I think about how we, what's our strategy and vision, we think of it as in two parts. One part is the evolution of the science and techniques behind AI. And you said it, right? From narrow, bespoke AI that all it can do is this one thing that it's really trained for, it takes a large amount of data, a lot of computing power. Two, how do you have the techniques and the innovation for AI to learn from one use case to the other? Be less data hungry, less resource hungry. Be more trustworthy and explainable. So, we call that the journey from narrow to broad AI. And one part of our strategy, as scientists and technologists, is the innovation to make that happen. So that's sort of one part. But, as you said, as people involved in making AI work in the enterprise, and IBM Research AI vision would be incomplete without the second part, which is, what are the challenges in scaling and operationalizing AI? It isn't sufficient that I can tell you AI can do this, how do I make AI do this so that you get the right ROI, the investment relative to the return makes sense and you can scale and operationalize. So, we took both of these imperatives. The AI narrow-to-broad journey, and the need to scale and operationalize. And what of the things that are making it hard? The things that make scaling and operationalizing harder: data challenges, we talked about that, skills challenges, and the fact that in enterprises, you have to govern and manage AI. And we took that together and we think of our AI agenda in three pieces: Advancing, trusting, and scaling AI. Advancing is the piece of pushing the boundary, making AI narrow to broad. Trusting is building AI which is trustworthy, is explainable, you can control and understand its behavior, make sense of it and all of the technology that goes with it. And scaling AI is when we address the problem of, how do I, you know, reduce the time and cost for data prep? How do I reduce the time for model tweaking and engineering? How do I make sure that a model that you build today, when something changes in the data, I can quickly allow for you to close the loop and improve the model? All of the things, think of day-two operations of AI. All of that is part of our scaling AI strategy. So advancing, trusting, scaling is sort of the three big mantras around which the way we think about our AI. >> Yeah, so I've been doing a little work in this around this notion of DataOps. Essentially, you know, DevOps applied to the data and the data pipeline, and I had a great conversation recently with Inderpal Bhandari, IBM's Global Chief Data Officer, and he explained to me how, first of all, customers will tell you, it's very hard to operationalize AIs. He and his team took that challenge on themselves and have had some great success. And, you know, we all know the problem. It's that, you know AI has to wait for the data. It has to wait for the data to be cleansed and wrangled. Can AI actually help with that part of the problem, compressing that? >> 100%. In fact, the way we think of the automation and scaling story is what we call the "AI For AI" story. So, AI in service of helping you build the AI that helps you make this with speed, right? So, and I think of it really in three parts. It's AI for data automation, our DataOps. AI used in better discovery, better cleansing, better configuration, faster linking, quality assessment, all of that. Using AI to do all of those data problems that you had to do. And I called it AI for data automation. The second part is using AI to automatically figure out the best model. And that's AI for data science automation, which is, feature engineering, hyperparameter optimization, having them all do work, why should a data scientist take weeks and months experimenting? If the AI can accelerate that from weeks to a matter of hours? That's data science automation. And then comes the important part, also, which is operations automation. Okay, I've put a data model into an application. How do I monitor its behavior? If the data that it's seeing is different from the data it was trained on, how do I quickly detect it? And a lot of the work from Research that was part of that Watson OpenScale offering is really addressing the operational side. So AI for data, AI for data science automation, and AI to help automate production of AI, is the way we break that problem up. >> So, I always like to ask folks that are deep into R&D, how they are ultimately are translating into commercial products and offerings? Because ultimately, you got to make money to fund more R&D. So, can you talk a little bit about how you do that, what your focus is there? >> Yeah, so that's a great question, and I'm going to use a few examples as well. But let me say at the outset, this is a very, very closed partnership. So when we, the Research part of AI and our portfolio, it's a closed partnership where we're constantly both drawing problem as well as building technology that goes into the offering. So, a lot of our work, much of our work in AI automation that we were talking about, is part of our Watson Studio, Watson Machine Learning, Watson OpenScale. In fact, OpenScale came out of Research working Trusted AI, and is now a centerpiece of our Watson project. Let me give a very different example. We have a very, very strong portfolio and focus in NLP, Natural Language Processing. And this directly goes into capabilities out of Watson Assistant, which is our system for conversational support and customer support, and Watson Discovery, which is about making enterprise understand unstructurally. And a great example of that is the Working Project Debater that you might have heard, which is a grand challenge in Research about building a machine that can do debate. Now, look, we weren't looking to go sell you a debating machine. But what did we build as part of doing that, is advances in NLP that are all making their way into assistant and discovery. And we actually just talked about earlier this year, announced a set of capabilities around better clustering, advanced summarization, deeper sentiment analysis. These made their way into Assistant and Discovery but are born out of research innovation and solving a grand problem like building a debating machine. That's just an example of how that journey from research to product happens. >> Yeah, the Debater documentary, I've seen some of that. It's actually quite astounding. I don't know what you're doing there. It sounds like you're taking natural language and turning it into complex queries with data science and AI, but it's quite amazing. >> Yes, and I would encourage you, you will see that documentary, by the way, on Channel 7, in the Think Event. And I would encourage you, actually the documentary around how Debater happened, sort of featuring back of the you know, backdoor interviews with the scientist who created it was actually featured last minute at Copenhagen International Documentary Festival. I'll invite viewers to go to Channel 7 and Data and AI Tech On-Demand to go take a look at that documentary. >> Yeah, you should take a look at it. It's actually quite astounding and amazing. Sriram, what are you working on these days? What kind of exciting projects or what's your focus area today? >> Look, I think there are three imperatives that we're really focused on, and one is very, you know, just really the project you're talking about, NLP. NLP in the enterprise, look, text is a language of business, right? Text is the way business is communicated. Within each other, with their partners, with the entire world. So, helping machines understand language, but in an enterprise context, recognizing that data and the enterprises live in complex documents, unstructured documents, in e-mail, they live in conversations with the customers. So, really pushing the boundary on how all our customers and clients can make sense of this vast volume of unstructured data by pushing the advances of NLP, that's one focus area. Second focus area, we talked about trust and how important that is. And we've done amazing work in monitoring and explainability. And we're really focused now on this emerging area of causality. Using causality to explain, right? The model makes this because the model believes this is what it wants, it's a beautiful way. And the third big focus continues to be on automation. So, NLP, trust, automation. Those are, like, three big focus areas for us. >> sriram, how far do you think we can take AI? I know it's a topic of conversation, but from your perspective, deep into the research, how far can it go? And maybe how far should it go? >> Look, I think we are, let me answer it this way. I think the arc of the possible is enormous. But I think we are at this inflection point in which I think the next wave of AI, the AI that's going to help us this narrow-to-broad journey we talked about, look, the narrow-to-broad journey's not like a one-week, one-year. We're talking about a decade of innovation. But I think we are at a point where we're going to see a wave of AI that we like to call "neuro-symbolic AI," which is AI that brings together two sort of fundamentally different approaches to building intelligence systems. One approach of building intelligence system is what we call "knowledge driven." Understand data, understand concept, logically, reasonable. We human beings do that. That was really the way AI was born. The more recent last couple of decades of AI was data driven, Machine learning. Give me vast volumes of data, I'll use neural techniques, deep learning, to to get value. We're at a point where we're going to bring both of them together. Cause you can't build trustworthy, explainable systems using only one, you can't get away from not using all of the data that you have to make them. So, neuro-symbolic AI is, I think, going to be the linchpin of how we advance AI and make it more powerful and trustworthy. >> So, are you, like, living your childhood dream here or what? >> Look, for me I'm fascinated. I've always been fascinated. And any time you can't find a technology person who hasn't dreamt of building an intelligent machine. To have a job where I can work across our worldwide set of 3,000 plus researchers and think and brainstorm on strategy with AI. And then, most importantly, not to forget, right? That you talked about being able to move it into our portfolios so it actually makes a difference for our clients. I think it's a dream job and a whole lot of fun. >> Well, Sriram, it was great having you on theCUBE. A lot of fun, interviewing folks like you. I feel a little bit smarter just talking to you. So thanks so much for coming on. >> Fantastic. It's been a pleasure to be here. >> And thank you for watching, everybody. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2020. This is Dave Vellante. We'll be right back right after this short break. (upbeat music)

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the cube covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 brought to you by Nutanix. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of next here in Copenhagen. We are of course here at the Nutanix show. We are wrapping up a fantastic today show. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Been Cosa hosting alongside of Stu Miniman. We are joined by Simon Taylor. He is the CEO of haiku, a good friend of the cube. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. It's a pleasure to be here. It's great to see you guys again. Final guest. Oh my gosh. It's a, it's a fare to stay interested in your energy. Yes. So for our viewers who are not as familiar with haiku, tell us a little bit about your business and how you are a strategic partner of Nutanix. >> Sure, sure. So haiku actually is a software company that focuses on data protection as a service. We actually started by spinning out of a much larger company called calm train that had about a thousand engineers and was doing all sorts of things, but they had an amazing talent for building backup and recovery software. >>Um, my vision was really that we can move up the value chain and we can establish ourselves as our own brand, as long as we could find a place in the market that was fast growing, building like a rocket ship and was really requiring a new kind of data protection and backup. And honestly, as soon as we fell, we saw Nutanix, we sort of fell in love. We realized that, you know, they had developed an entirely new category of business with hyperconverged and they were really a pioneer in that space. So we said is why don't we build the world's first purpose-built backup and recovery for Nutanix? And that's exactly what we did. And I think, you know, Stu was actually one of the first people to ever hear about it. Uh, we came on the cube and we talked about that. We've GA that in 2017 in July. I think@that.next, um, so just two and a half years later, we now have 1200 customers and we're in 62 countries around the world. So it's been absolutely astonishing. It's been wonderful growth. We're seeing 300% year over year growth. Uh, and really a lot of that is just based on our ability to protect the data of Nutanix customers around the world. >>Well and and Simon, right? That early question was, is new CanOx is going to be big enough to support ISV is that, you know, can run the, you know, grow their business underneath them before we get further and talk about mine and everything. Give us a little bit, you know, the state of the state for haiku because started with Nutanix, but that's not the only solution they are offering Dave. So just give us kind of the snapshot of the whole business. >>What we realized as we were building out high Q in this purpose build backup recovery for new TEDx. We said that's the on-prem, you know, but there's a lot of on prem that is still legacy three tier architecture. So we added a VMware product. But really the goal was to offer true multi-cloud data protection as a service. So what we did is we built the independent purpose-built backup and recovery service from Nutanix, one for VMware. Then we built the world's first purpose build backup as a service for Google cloud. And I'm really thrilled to announce the next month we're launching Azure backup as well. And the brilliant thing about our system and our solution is that we actually enabled customers to not only back up their data independently for that cloud, but that then migrate their data to whatever other cloud they want to use. So we actually becomes data protection as a service, data migration, and dr. >>So for, for customers, this is wonderful, but how is it to be strategic partners with all of these big players? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. I think you have to place your bets, right? So if you notice, I didn't say AWS and almost every company that I talked to says, why wouldn't you start with AWS? They're the biggest, you know, that's never been our philosophy. You know, I think the fact that we attach ourselves to Nutanix so early, not just because they were a rocket ship on fire, but also because we truly believed in their vision. We believe in the Nutanix products, we love Daraja entire philosophy around simplicity and customer delight and we felt like we could be students of Nutanix, we could actually build out our product with those same philosophies and principles in mind. You know? So I think really going deep with Nutanix is number one for us remains number one. I would also say though that you know, Google has been an excellent partner and Microsoft been an excellent partner. So with the large cloud providers you have to take a different approach. You cannot offer a downloadable product, right? All of our public cloud backup and recovery is a true managed service. You go into their app store, you turn it on rather than download it, you configure and you're able to perform all your backup and do all your recovery right from the console. >>All right, so Simon let, let's get into the kind of the, the, the guts of what's happening at Nutanix. Mine, of course is a partnership to extend for data protection, partnering with Veeam and haikus as a, as the first two partners. Uh, the other thing that everybody's pretty excited about is XY clusters. And that sounds like, and we've talked to Newtanics people, you know, as Nutanix brings their stack into the clouds, not just on the clouds, will that pull things like mine along with them. And so, so give us what you're seeing with mine first and maybe he's, I clusters along. >>Yeah. So maybe we start with mine, right? This whole concept that I think that these guys have pioneered and they've done a really terrific job of it. I think, you know, the, the vision there, and you know, I count marketing or Meyer in this group and Tim Isaacs and some wonderful folks on the product team in Nutanix. Their vision was, you know, there's rubric and there's Cohesity, there's these sort of large secondary storage platforms. Personally, when I look at them, what I see as Newtanics with a backup workload, right? And I think that, you know, Nutanix being the original is the best. It's the most complete solution. And it's very, very comprehensive. So I think the, the tannics folks understood this intuitively and their idea was instead of us building our own backup and going after that space, we've got amazing partners like haiku. Why don't we just natively integrate them into the mind platform and offer that sort of secondary storage workload, uh, as a key part of Nutanix is product proposition. >>So the really exciting thing for us is that we are skewed up with Nutanix. Nutanix, we'll be able to resell haiku as a part of mine. Uh, and I think that's gonna really complete their end tour tire story when it comes to being able to own the data center, uh, and really own the sort of cloud in general. You know. So I think your second question still was about clusters. And I think that the answer there is very simple. You know, multi Gloucester is, has become extremely important for Nutanix customers. They've done a great job of going after that. The simple fact is if you don't support XY clusters as a backup vendor, you really can't compete in this market. So I'm really thrilled to announce, of course, that haiku is the first backup recovery vendor that does support. Gluster. >>Okay. So interesting. We talked about how you hadn't done a solution for AWS. Sounds like this might be a path for you to get with Nutanix onto AWS. >>Absolutely, absolutely. And again, for us it's not about looking for some Trojan horse or backdoor into a go to market strategy. It's about making sure that the customers are truly delighted by the value that we provide. And I think that when we go after a specific market, we want to do it the best, you know, so we don't go shallow and just sort of check the box. We want to make sure, for example, when we build out Azure that we're not just dealing with, you know, the, the general principle of backing up and keeping things consistent. We want to make sure the applications people are running on Azure or supported by haiku. That's what we do with Nutanix. That's what we do with GCP. We want to always go as deep as possible so we can really compliment the platform in a really, really comprehensive way. >>One of the things you said earlier was that your philosophy is very much aligned with Nutanix, your your end goal to simplify and delight the customer, uh, this, this much more intuitive, uh, youth and user interface. So talk a little bit about how you, you said you wanted to become a student of Nutanix, yo, this, this cross company learning is very interesting to me. How, how, what have you learned? Yeah. What have you learned and how do you go about being tutored by your customers? >>No, I'm a very visual guy, right? And whenever I think about Nutanix, I always had this image in my head. All right. Whenever I thought about legacy, three-tier architecture and the move to hyperconverged, rather, I always pictured an 80 stereo system. Remember those big eighties boxes? And they have all the graphic equalizers and all the way down. And some kid would come and push them all down. You could never reset the darn things, you know? And then along comes, you know, automation and suddenly, you know, you press a button and you listen to jazz and it sounds like good jazz and the treble and the bass all fixed themselves. You know, I effectively think that Nutanix brought that same concept, funnily enough into the data center. They simplified so much that was impossible to handle for admins across the world. They made it so simple to use their product that actually the customers could start to enjoy their work more. >>And I really love that. That's a true, that's a really an intangible sort of value proposition that I think people don't talk about it enough. Yes, you want to save time. Yes, you want to save money, but if you could enjoy your job more as a result of getting a product, what's better than that? Um, so I think that philosophy is something we baked into haiku in the following ways. You know, the first is when we were designing the UI, we wanted it to look and feel like the platform it supports. So when you use haiku for Nutanix, it looks like prism, when you are using our console for GCP, you're gonna feel like you're using GCP. The idea is that backup and recovery should be an extension of that cloud expression, that platform, so that the customer who is an expert with that platform can easily manage this with no training at all. So again, driving that simplicity right there and in the platform. >>Yeah. So Simon, you know, one of the things we love to do is get hear from customers and what they're doing. Of course you've got 1200 customers that are Nutanix customers. So we'd love to hear, you know, any insights you have in a lot of discussion about AHV in the last 12 months has been about half of the deployment. Is there anything around HV or any of the, you know, new software features and products and experiences that Nutanix has been launching that you hear customers buzzing and talking to you about? >>I mean, I, I, the first thing I would say is it is truly a multicloud world now. Um, I think that legacy vendors are having a harder and harder time coping with the fact that cloud washing no longer works. You know, if you show up to the market and you say, Oh, this, now I can deploy an agent into this cloud, it's sort of stop, stop, don't say agent around me. You know? So I think, I think the ability to really natively integrate into any of these clouds and support all of these clouds equally is key. You know? So in the past a vendor would start with one thing and it would be great, right? And I won't use names here, but then they would do something else. They might move to another hypervisor and it was a little bit less great. Right. And I think that that notion has to change in a multicloud world, which brings me to the concept of HV. >>I think that HV has really grown. I mean, I would say that right now, you know, over half of our customers are HV customers. And I would say that that grows every single quarter and it not only grows in terms of net new logos, it also grows in terms of existing customers that we're finding SWAT to switch to HV and they want to switch fast. You know, they don't want to pay the V tax anymore, but more than that, I think they're seeing HV as a really robust enterprise hypervisor that really meets the complete need for the customer. And I think that's, that's been terrific to watch. So when you hear at.next, and this is not your first hot next, but what kinds of conversations are you having? What's been interesting to you? What are you going to take back to haiku? Yeah, head back to Brookline. Yeah. >>I mean obviously there's all the new stuff. I mean, Kubernetes, you know, containers. Um, I think these are all things we've been working on for some time. We'll have some surprises for you guys in Q4 at the end of Q four around that. Um, but you know, I think the big takeaway for me is we spent the first two years building our brand, getting the word out there, proving to companies and customers around the world that we were truly enterprise ready cause we were the new kid on the block. And you have to sort of start somewhere and show that. I think now we, you know, we added physical last year, we added tape support, we've really got all of the major applications covered at this point. I think that conversation, we've checked the box, right? So today's conversations are about what's next, how much more deeply will you integrate with Nutanix? >>How can I use Nutanix to then manage my data in the cloud and bring it back again? And can haikus support that or will it distract me? And you know, the simple answer is it will support that completely because it's so natively integrated. You know. And again, I think when you choose a platform at this stage, and this is something we've seen again and again and again, people do not want a second silo, right? In order to, you know, run their backup and recovery. You know, customers who are choosing Nutanix or choosing any platform want to run that platform and they want to make that one holistic experience. You know, they want to reduce the training required and they want to make sure they get the most out of their investment. So we're where I think two or three years ago, Stu, when we first met, everybody was trying new things, right? It was sort of, there were all these new platforms and it was all very exciting. I think now people are doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on the platforms they fundamentally believe in. And we're thrilled about that because we support those platforms and we'll continue to do so. >>Great. Excellent little. Simon, thank you so much for coming on the cube. It was a real pleasure talking to you and it's been great. Yes, no, absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. That wraps up two brilliant days in Copenhagen at the Bella center at Nutanix dot. Next. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you next time.

>>live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next I'm your host Rebecca Knight alongside my co host Stew Minutemen. We have two guests for this segment we have. Mika will lose. She's the art director for Nutanix Thank you so much for coming on the show. >>Thank you for inviting me >>And we have Satish Ramachandran, Global head of design at Nutanix Thank you so much for coming on. So it's always so much fun to talk to really creative people, particularly in this technology world. I want to start the conversation by asking Michael first where you go for inspiration and who do you talk to? What he read? What kinds of things do you look at to inspire you to and then bring them back to your job here in Nutanix. So I strongly >>believe that inspiration come from everywhere. No matter where you go is an architecture or you go to the supermarket and you look on packaging or you read a book and you think about images or even just social media. And there is so much variety of different opinion and different cultures to get inspired from. Even from this conference, we took inspiration from Copenhagen, the city, and from Swiss design or from California and divide in the mid century. I put, like not in construction, but like architecture. Er, um, we created this really Sundwall the supreme the best day ever. And I was actually reading a book with my kids, the diary of a wimpy kid. And I was like, Okay, you know what? We can make something really fun out of it. We can take like a page from a diary and create Sabrina Best day, something like that. >>It was truly everywhere. >>It's really every. >>How about Yusa? Tish >>men? It's two parts, actually. I think one is the inspiration when it comes to the aesthetics of design. So to a large degree, I'm a huge fan off minimalism, everything from Japanese paintings, for example, where with two or three strokes, you have a stark on the water. The Bauhaus movement clean, elegant lines very minimal to the point, and even the Scandinavian architecture, for example, is quite minimalistic and very clean. So that is one angle on what we strive to do in terms off getting to minimal, clean, simple. But in the other portion of inspiration is actually comes from empathy because, you know, it's the you know, I care deeply about the human condition, even pre Nutanix sort of teenage angst that never left me right. And ah, so in a sense, is a lot of empathy. Toe what people are going through in terms of technology, how they're using it. How can we make their lives easier? How can we bring about some joys in their life and to a large degree, the secretary working? You know, I t, um, has bean sort of underserved design wise for many years on de. So there's a lot of inspiration that comes in the form of motivation in order to do something for people there. >>Well, yes, it's a teacher, I'm wondering, can help connect the dots with us. I think of minimalism and obviously ties to this simplicity Nutanix and remember in the early days, talking Nutanix to make something truly simple from a technology standpoint usually has a lot of work, and we've been talking to the executive team about, you know, in this multi cloud, highly disperse. Tear it even harder today. So how does some of those core design principles make their way into into Nutanix is world. >>You want me to talk about the process? You know, I >>think >>the process is quite straightforward. I mean, you start with understanding the space, understanding the experience that exists in the space. You don't start with the feature or the product. That's the first thing you start with the people. So you started with a very human centric manner on. Okay, What are they trying to do? What are they trying to achieve and how do you get them in the simplest possible manner to do that? So we have this thing that we use called intentional our design, which is one off our design principles. Very. How do you get someone who has an intention to fulfill their intention with the least amount of effort? And the effort in the middle is what we label less friction constantly. So we talk about trying to become friction less and so on. So the process for that is you start with the person what they're trying to get done, and >>from there you actually >>work all the Muslims in the organization. So design, basically at that point takes on the role of a facilitator by bringing in, you know, engineering product management design itself together and all in service off the user to create an experience, right? So it starts with, you know, formulating the requirements together with engineering and product management. It's address it, then converging on these things by creating prototypes than testing these things with users and so on and then figuring out really what is essential, what can be thrown out and how to keep it really simple. And that's how we build product, basically. >>So that's so. As you said, it starts with this point of empathy, and that is this collaborative process between the engineers and the artists and design team. How would you say that design is more part of the Nutanix philosophy, just rather than the simple, simple, easy, elegant products itself but the entire company? How would you say it's it's built into the philosophy? I actually think this is >>why Nutanix is so unique in our space because we don't just look at the technology we looking at a whole package of design and technology, the left brain and the right brain together. And it comes from our leadership because, dear, it is the great advocator for design. He's really believing in the importance of it, not just a pretty rap on something, but it's something that is meaningful and and really able to provide a full experience for our customers. >>Yeah, meet me how maybe I love to get you both of your commentary. There's a new AH advertising campaign that was launched. The video was in the keynote yesterday. >>It >>all together now it is very colorful, and it is very diverse and at the same time, even, you know, I'm a technology guy. I will often roll my eyes when I see a certain advertising, but to articulate to the world, it's like, Okay, how does my database and multi cloud and all these things play together? Well, way we anthropomorphized though those technology pieces into people on dhe. You've got photos that you can do there, so bring us inside a little bit as to how that you helped the messaging eso some, you know, pretty complex pieces underneath. >>Yes, we're very excited about this campaign. I have to tell you. We worked very hard to conceptualize it and bring it out to the world. And we were very excited to be able to share it here. That next the thinking behind it. Waas, you know I to world is complex and here in Nutanix, we really try to offer a simple way to remove this complexity. So what is a better way than just take those I t concept and business an application manners and personalize them and make them fun. And when you think about Public Cloud, what do you mean? What does it mean to you? How do you envision it when you think about a database? Do you think about the strongman that carrying the cylinder and you >>make it a >>campaign Maur You humanize it, you make it accessible to people and you make it fun And this is what we're trying to do We're trying to delight. Our customers were trying to empower them to be able to do their business in a better way, and that was our goals provide simplicity, choice and delights. >>And as you said, it's it's this ample anthropomorphizing of this. If you've a database where a person what would go with the database person look like it's the cloud Where Human? Yes, exactly. And it just I think they just >>make make it fun and you make it unique and you create something that is different in our scene. And nothing, That's what we're trying to do. >>How do you work together with the engineers? I mean, I know you said. You gather in a room and you are thinking about the end user. How does the customer experience this? But how do artists and engineers communicate? I mean, is that Is that ever a challenge or >>not? Really? No, not really. Actually, it's, Ah, it's a three legged stool. Basically, there's ah, and you know, if you put marketing in there as well for the awareness piece, which precludes anything that we you know the customer uses, it actually becomes a four legged stool. But in terms of building product, it's a three legged stool, which is product management, and they're trying to figure out what is the product market fit, and that's what they bring to the table. The engineer's coming and as we're dreaming up stuff, they're thinking, Is this stuff buildable or not? You know these guys dreaming way too much, right? And so it is a colonization. So and I think that's the crucible in which the best creativity actually comes out. It's not designing isolation where, you know, design dreams up something and the rest of the folks build it. It really isn't that so. We are, actually, in a sense, the way I see it, we have the glue and we formed the Crucible for the colonization. And and in that, you know, good things come out. >>So we hear you are in Denmark, which is design savvy, fashion forward, food obsessed and eyes cultivating that sense of well being in comfort and coziness. What kinds of things are you going to take with you from this conference itself? What are you seeing? What's interesting to you? And how are you gonna bring that back to Nutanix? >>Honestly, for me, I think it's just the warmth of the people in the community in here. They were so invasive and and and kind. And we got a chance to work with a lot of people when we were building this conference. And and to me it's all about the human connection and I think this is something that I will definitely carry with me when we go back to Nutanix. And we were trying to think about our next dock next conference. And you know how we can bring some of that too there as >>well? Yeah, it's to teach anything on dot next Copenhagen, and you know, you're from Berlin, so you're in Europe and get gets a different, you know, cultural input. I >>think they're still. I think >>there is still some stuff. I think around the accessibility mainly for me, like the hotel we're staying. And, you know, first thing I noticed was, you know, that's bringing on, you know, when you have to open the refrigerator, for example, or the closet door And it, I mean, that first thought was like, you know, they have already designed in the accessibility. And then I liberate that back to product, and I think you know how we doing on accessibility. And of course, you know, everything around you here is pretty inspiring in terms of architecture and so on and so forth. So that's a gimme, really. And you see that a lot of it in Germany so that it isn't as much new, but in terms of the conference, it's very heartening that will come this fire. You know, I don't know. Miami many years ago, which is my first conference, you know, we were like all of 600 people, and now we are 4500 here. So in a sense, it's very heartening. And people seem to embrace the, you know, the vision that we're putting foot. Yeah, you know, around convergence off many, many things. >>How deeply technical are both of you? Um, I understand. >>I understand the technology. I understand the struggle. I understand what we're trying to achieve is a company. It doesn't mean I can go and do a demo on stage, but I think it's important to understand the technology of the company that you work for in order to represent it truly and in order to convey the message that we're trying to tell because we are a storyteller. That's what we do. We take the message and the technology, and we bring it out to our customers. So it's important. >>I'm a dyed in the wool engineer s o. I was I mean, my cases where I was an engineer for a fleet to the kids. You know, you take running engineering teams, that kind of stuff. And then I stumbled upon design. So I have a very deep understanding off engineering and what it takes to build stuff. But I have another side of me which is generally around. Empathy, experiences, you know, human interaction, human behavior. What makes people take what frustrates them, those kinds of things. So for me that we design has beena synthesis off many off my interests, and that's why I fell in love with it and have stuck around. >>One of the biggest issues in Silicon Valley and in the technology industry at large is is the skills and the right people the talent gap? How much of an issue is that for the design teams within these technology companies? Because you are looking for so many different skills people who can grasp the technology but then also have this more creative spark Innis to them to how hard is it to find the right people? I think it's a little bit >>of a challenge, but I think we're very fortunate to have amazing teams that understand technology and design in the connection between them. So I know I feel very fortunate with the people I get to work with. Their very there are amazing. Yeah. >>I mean, it was hard in the beginning when we when Nutanix was 150 people or something on the brown. Nobody knew. So then it was very hard to find the right people and to also simplified the vision and to sell it. I still remember spending with every new hire. I would be the first guy they would talk to. And I spent two years in two hours on a whiteboard, talking of taking borders, a technology problem on translating it into an experiential problem. And speaking to really this is very hard to design for and that's where the challenge lies, right? But what a period of time we have successfully built a brand which is a Nutanix design brand. And we have done a ton of things that I'm actually very proud off establishing relationships with universities, even on the social media, having a website, having a proper blawg, various things. When Now we are recognized in the enterprise space as a place for designers to go and work. And there is a certain combination. I figured out where which makes for a good designer in the space. Because if you take people with too little off a technology background, then the ramp up is very high. S o. If you typically you find somebody who's got done some amount of technology than the prior company or in school. And there are people like that. There are plenty of them. And then they moved on to design. And that seems to be the right mix because they can understand the empathize both on the technology side and also on the design side of things. And that makes for the right combination. >>And it's not >>too bad to find people. >>And I think >>technology can be talked. But I think passion and carrying is that part of it is hard to find >>be innate skills. Yeah, exactly. Great. Well, Miguel and McHale and Satish thank you so much for coming on the Cuba and fun and enlightening a conversation. Thank you so >>much. It's great to be here. Thank you so much. >>Thank you, guys. >>I'm Rebecca Knight for stew Minutemen. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next

>>live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next here at the Bella Centre in the Copenhagen. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, coasting along side of stew, Minutemen were joined by Bala Coochie bottler >>Bhola. He is the VP GM Nutanix era and business critical lapse at Nutanix. Thanks so much for coming on the island. >>It's an honor to come here and talk to guys. >>So you were up on the main stage this morning. You did a fantastic job doing some demos for us. But up there you talked about your data, your days gold. And you said there are four p's thio the challenges of mining the burning process you want >>you want to go through >>those for our viewers? >>Definitely. So for every business, critical lab data is gold likely anam bigness for a lot of people are anyone. Now the question is like similar to how the gore gets processed and there's a lot of hazardous mining that happens and process finally get this processed gold. To me, the data is also very similar for business could collapse. Little database systems will be processed in a way to get the most efficient, elegant way of getting the database back data back. No. The four pains that I see for managing data businesses started provisioning even today. Some of his biggest companies that I talkto they take about 3 to 5 weeks toe provisions. A database. It goes from Infrastructure team. The ticket passes from infrastructure team, computer, networking stories, toe database team and the database administration team. That's number one silo. Number two is like proliferation, and it's very consistent, pretty much every big company I talkto there. How about 8 to 10 copies of the data for other analytics que year development staging Whatever it is, it's like over you take a photo and put it on. What Step and your friends download it. They're basically doing a coffee data. Essentially, that Fordham be becomes 40 and in no time in our what's up. It's the same thing that happens for databases, data bits gets cloned or if it's all the time. But this seemingly simple, simple operation off over Clone Copy copy paste operation becomes the most dreaded, complex long running error prone process. And I see that dedicated Devi is just doing Tony. That's another thing. And then lineage problem that someone is cloning the data to somewhere. I don't know where the data is coming from. Canister in The third pain that we talk about is the protection. Actually, to me it's like a number one and number two problem, but I was just putting it in the third. If you're running daily basis, and if you're running it for Mission critical data basis, your ability to restore the rhythm is to any point in time. It's an absolute must write like otherwise, you're not even calling The database. Question is, Are the technologies don't have this kind of production technology? Are they already taken care? They did already, but the question is on our new town expert from Are on Cloud platform. Can they be efficient and elegant? Can we can we take out some of the pain in this whole process? That's what we're talking about. And the last one is, ah, big company problem. Anyone who has dozens of databases can empathize with me how painful it is to patch how painful it is to get up get your complaints going to it. Holy Manager instead driven database service, this kind of stuff. So these are the four things that we actually think that if you solve them, your databases are one step. Are much a lot steps closer to database service. That's what I see >>Bala. It's interesting. You know, you spent a lot of time working for, you know, the big database company out there. There is no shortage of options out there for databases. When I talked to most enterprises, it's not one database they now have, you know, often dozens of databases that they have. Um so explain line. Now you know, there's still an unmet need in the marketplace that Nutanix is looking to help fill there. >>So you're absolutely right on the dark that there are lots of date of this technology is actually that compounds the problem because all these big enterprise companies that are specially Steadman stations for Oracle Post Grace may really be my sequel sequel administrator. Now they're new breed of databases in no sequel monger leave. You know, it's it's like Hardy Man is among really be somebody manage the Marta logics and stuff like that so no, we I personally eating their databases need to become seemed like Alex City. Right? So >>most of >>these banks and telcos all the company that we talk about data this is just a means to an end for them. So there should focus on the business logic. Creating those business value applications and databases are more like okay, I can just manage them with almost no touch Aghanistan. But whether these technologies that were created around 20 years back are there, there it kind of stopped. So that is what we're trying to talk about when you have a powerful platform like Nutanix that actually abstracts the stories and solve some of the fundamental problems for database upstream technologies to take advantage of. We combine the date of this FBI's the render A P s as well as the strength of the new tenants platform to give their simplicity. Essentially. So that's what I see. We're not inventing. New databases were trying to simplify the database. If that's what >>you and help make sure we understand that you know, Nutanix isn't just building the next great lock in, you know, from top to bottom. You know, Nutanix can provide it. But Optionality is a word that Nutanix way >>live and time by choice and freedom for the customers. In fact, I make this as one of the fundamental design principles, even for era we use. AP is provided with the database vendors, for example, for our men, we just use our men. AP is. We start the database in the backup, using our many years where we take that one day. It is the platform. Once the database in the backup more we're taking snapshots of the latest visit is pretty much like our men. Regan back up with a Miss based backup, essentially alchemist, so the customer is not locked in the 2nd 1 is if the customer wants to go to the other clothes are even other technologies kind of stuff? We will probably appear just kind of migrate. So that's one of the thing that I want to kind of emphasize that we're not here to lock in any customer. In fact, your choice is to work. In fact, I emphasize, if the customer has the the computer environment on the year six were more than happy weaken. Some 40 year six are his feet both are equal for us. All we need is the air weighs on era because it was is something that we leverage a lot off platform patent, uh, repentance of Nutanix technology that we're passing on the benefits canister down the road where we're trying to see is we'll have cyclists and AWS and DCP. And as you and customers can move databases from unpromising private cloud platform through hybrid cloud to other clusters and then they can bring back the data business. That's what we can to protect the customers. Investment. >>Yeah. I mean, I'm curious. Your commentary. When you go listen, toe the big cloud player out there. It's, you know, they tell you how many hundreds of thousands of databases they've migrated. When I talk to customers and they think about their workload, migrations are gonna come even more often, and it's not a one way thing. It's often it's moving around and things change. So can we get there for the database? Because usually it's like, Well, it isn't it easier for me to move my computer to my data. You know, data has gravity. You know, there's a lot of, you know, physics. Tell General today. >>See what what is happening with hyper killers is. They're asking the applications. Toby return against clothed native databases, obviously by if you are writing an application again, it's chlorinated. Databases say there are Are are are even DCP big table. You're pretty much locked technical because further obligation to come back down from there is no view. There's no big table on and there's no one around. Where is what we're trying to say is the more one APS, the oracles the sequels were trying to clarify? We're trying to bring the simplicity of them, so if they can run in the clover, they condone an art crime. So that's how we protect the investment, that there is not much new engineering that needs to be done for your rafts as is, we can move them. Only thing is, we're taking or the pain off mobility leveraging all platform. So obviously we can run your APS, as is Oracle applications on the public lower like oracle, and if you feel like you want to do it on on from, we can do it on the impromptu canister so and to protect the investment for the customers, we do have grown feeling this man, That means that you can How did a bee is running on your ex editor and you can do capacity. Mediation means tier two tier three environments on Nutanix using our time mission technology. So we give the choicest customers >>So thinking about this truly virtualized d be what is what some of the things you're hearing from customers here a dot next Copenhagen. What are the things that you were they there, There there Pain points. I mean, in addition to those four peas. But what are some of the next generation problems that you're trying to solve here? >>So that first awful for the customers come in acknowledges way that this is a true database. Which letters? I don't know what happened is what tradition is all aboard compute. And when when he saw the computer watch logician problem you threw in database server and then try to run the databases. You're not really solving the problem of the data? No, With Nutanix, our DNA is in data. So we have started our pioneered the storage, which location and then extended to the files and objects. Now we're extending into database making that application Native Watch Ladies database for dilation, leveraging the story published Combining that with Computer. What's litigation? We think that we have made an honest effort to watch less data basis. Know the trend that I see is Everyone is moving. Our everyone wants cloudlike experience. It's not like they want to go to club, but they want the cloud like agility, that one click simplicity, consumer, great experience for the data basis, I would liketo kind of manage my data basis in self service matter. So we took both these dimensions. We made a great we made an honest effort to make. The databases are truly watch list. That's the copy data management and olive stuff and then coupled with how cloud works able to tow provisions. Self service way ability to manage your backups in self service. Weigh heavily to do patch self service fair and customers love it, and they want to take us tow new engines. One of the other thing that we see beget Bronte's with ERA is Chloe's. Olive or new databases generally are the post press and the cancer, but there's a lot of data on site because there's a lot of data on Mississippi. Honey, there's a lot of data on TV, too. Why don't we enjoy the same kind of experience for those databases? What? What did they do wrong? So can we >>give >>those experience the cloud like experience and then true? Watch allegation for those databases on the platform. That's what customers ask What kind of stuff. Obviously, they will have asked for more and more, um, br kind of facilities and other stuff that way there in the road map that we will be able to take it off. One >>of the questions we've had this week as Nutanix build out some of these application software not just infrastructure software pieces, go to market tends to be a little bit different. We had an interesting conversation with the Pro. They're wrapping the service for a row so that that seems like a really good way to be able to reach customers that might not even knew no Nutanix tell us, you know, how is that going? Is there an overlay? Salesforce's it? Some of the strategic channel and partnership engagements, you know, because this is not the traditional Nutanix, >>So obviously Nutanix is known. Andi made its name and fame for infrastructure as service. So it's really a challenge to talk about database language for our salespeople. But country that I heard the doubt when I kind of started my journey It Nutanix Okay, we will build a product. But how are you going to the city? And we get off this kind of sales for But believe me, we're making multimillion dollar deals mainly led by the application Native Miss our application centric nous so I could talk about federal governments. And yes, she made perches because it was a different station for them. We're talking about big telco company in Europe trying to replace their big Internet appliances because era makes the difference vanished. We're providing almost two X value almost half the price. So the pain point is real. Question is, can we translate their token reconnect with the right kind of customer? So we do have a cell so early for my division. They speak database language. Obviously we're very early in the game, so we will have selected few people in highly dense are important geographic regions who after that, but I also work with channels, work with apartments like geniuses like we prove head steal another kind of stuff and down the best people to leverage and take this holding and practice. This is the solution. In fact, companies like GE S D s is like people take an offer. Managed database seven. Right. So we have a product. People can build a cloud with it. But with the pro they can offer in a word, why do you want to go to public Lower? I can provide the same cloud. Man is database service more on our picks, Mortal kind of stuff. So we're kind of off fighting on all cylinders in this sense, but very selectively very focused. And I really believe that customers fill understand this, Mrs, that Nutanix is not just the infrastructure, but it's a cloud. It's a It's a club platform where I considered arise like Microsoft Office Suite on Microsoft's operating system. Think about that. That's the part off full power that we think that I can make make it happen >>and who are you know, you said you're going in very tight. Who are these Target customers without naming names? But what kinds of businesses are they? You know? How big are they? What kinds of challenges. Are >>they looking at all? The early customers were hardly in the third quarter of the business, but five. Financial sector is big. The pain point of data mismanagement is so acute there capacity limitation is a huge thing. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this big. When that kind of stuff on can they run in the can extract efficiencies out of this hole all their investment. Second thing is manufacturing and tell Cole, and obviously federal is one of the biggest friend of Nutanix and I happened to pitch in and religions is loaded. And they said, Israel, let's do it real demo. And then let's make it happen. They actually tested the product and there are taking it. So the e r piece, where are they? Run Oracle, Where the run big sequence kind of stuff. This is what we're seeing. It >>followed. Wanna make sure there was a bunch of announcements about era tudo Otto, Just walk us through real quick kind of where we are today. And what should we be looking for? Directionally in the future. >>So we started out with four are five engines. Basically, Andi, you know that Oracle sequel and my sequel post this kind of stuff, and we attacked on four problems this provisioning patching copy, data management and then production. But when we talked to all these customers on, I talked to see Ables and City Walls. They love it. They wanted to say that Hey, Kanna, how around more engines? Right? So that's one will live. But more importantly, they do have practices. They have their closest vehicles that they want to have single pane of management, off era managing data basis across. So the multi cluster capability, what we call that's like equal and a prison central which manage multiple excesses. They weren't error to manage multiple clusters that manage daily basis, right? That's number one. That's big for a product with in one year that we regard to that stage. Second thing was, obviously, people and press customers expect rule rule based access control. But this is data, so it's not a simple privilege, and, uh, you would define the roles and religious and then get it over kind of stuff. You do want to know who is accessing the data, whether they can access the data and where they can accident. We want to give them freedom to create clones and data kind of act. Give the access to data, but in a country manor so they can clone on their cure. Clusters there need to file a huge big ticket with Wait for two weeks. They can have that flexibility, but they can manage the data at that particular fear class. So this is what we call D a M Data access management. It's like a dam on the like construct on the river, control flow of the water and then channel is it to the right place and right. But since Canister, so that's what we're trying to do for data. That's the second big thing that we look for in the attitude. Otto. Obviously, there's a lot off interest on engines. Expand both relation in Cecil has no sequel are We are seeing huge interest in recipe. Hannah. We're going to do it in a couple of months. You'll have take review monger. Dubious. The big big guy in no sequel space will expand that from long. Would it be to march logic and other stuff, But even D B two insiders There's a lot of interest. I'm just looking for committed Customers were, weren't They are willing to put the dollars on the table, and we're going to rule it out. That's the beauty of fair that we're not just talking about. Cloud native databases Just force Chris and kind of stuff. What? All this innovation that happened in 30 40 years, we can we can renew them to the New Age. Afghanistan. >>Great. Well, Bala, thank you so much for coming on. The Cuba was >>Thank you. >>I'm Rebecca Knight for stew minimum. Stay tuned. For more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot next.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019. Brought to you by, Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to the cube's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, alongside of my co-host Stu Miniman, Analyst. We have two guests for this segment. We have Angie Cusworth, she is the COO of Hardy Fisher Services. >> Hi. >> Thank you so much for coming on Angie. >> Hi. >> And we have David Cusworth SVP sales at Hardy Fisher Services. Thank you so much! >> Thank you. >> And husband and wife. >> And a husband and wife team! >> I believe we have done it before, I know we've had twins on the program. >> Right, yes. >> Uh, but uh, yeah. >> Couples who work, I like it! We'll get into how you make it all work. But David, I want to start with you. Describe Hardy Fisher Services for our viewers who may be unfamiliar with your company. >> Yeah, so we own and operate a large data center based in Leeds, so it's a 400 watt capacity data center previously built for BT house NHS patient records in the UK. And we operate that as a reseller base data center, so we are a very clear go-to market. We have our co-location, we have money services and then obviously cloud which is based on Nutanix. >> So, wait Angie what are the biggest business challenges that you face in your world. >> So I think it's trying to convince customers to move to the cloud. Obviously, you know, we've been doing cloud for some time now. I don't know how to-- >> Yeah, so David, we're talking about that move to cloud. It help it put where, you know, your services built both now Nutanix fit in the customers overall picture. Cause you know, you've SAS, you've got public cloud people are building private clouds off Nutanix or other type of hardware, so you know how do you play with some of those other components and position yourself? >> I think a lot of the challenges that we've seen is people are comfortable with Azure so a lot of resellers that we deal with. Azure is a safe bet. Nutanix is still quite a new name in the marketplace. There's people who don't want to move to the cloud because they don't understand it. So, a lot of the time, we show them the cloud platform in our data centers, and can touch and feel it they can actually see it. Which gives them a bit more confidence. And then, from our side it's the service wrap, so it's holding them the hands on the journey to the cloud. So it's given our technical ability to say, you know, we'll do it for you, we'll hold your hands, we'll get you working. And at the end of the day, the cloud is people's businesses. So if the cloud doesn't work, it affects their business and we're trying to put our hats on as a customer. >> Yeah, it's funny. It reminds me, we used to have the joke, there is no cloud, there is just you know, your computer somewhere else. Angie, bring us inside, a little bit? Your customers, it sounds like they're still a little bit of trepidation about them making changes there? >> Yeah, I think one of the reasons that we've been so successful, is that we follow IT Service Management very well. So we help our customers through the whole journey. So people that are new to cloud, we have excellent technical people, that can help them. We have a fantastic data center, as well. So, they know their kits are safe with us. >> Yeah, bring us inside a little bit. You talked about how many racks there. What differentiates your data center? There's you know, most companies, you know, we tell the average enterprise out there, you know. Friends don't let friends build data centers. There's other people that know what they're doing. So, give us a little bit of a virtual tour, if you would. >> Yeah, so our data center. Like I said, It was originally built for BT and for the NHS. And as they moved to cloud, the need for their data center shrunk. Leeds as a city is growing city and there's not many data centers in Leeds, so we took the opportunity to really re-launch the data center. We knew it was a very high spec data center, cause it cost a lot of money to build. And it gives the customers confidence that when they are going in there, it's very secure. It's very high resilience. And from a cloud platform, we've gone completely Nutanix. So it is literally, you can come in, you can touch Nutanix, you can play with it. And it's just the whole journey really, that to make sure they're in a safe pair of hands. >> Talk a little bit more about how Nutanix comes into play with your organization. >> We went with Nutanix because we're looking for something to be different. There's a lot of people who've got this UA to be WES in that V seller market. So we wanted something that was focused on SME. So we've got very, very much SME focus. And cost comes into it. Having that support, so being able to ring somebody up and not being in a big call center in Asia or in Europe. Somebody who can actually talk them through, what the issues are, also be very responsive, and put the customer first. >> Yeah, it's interesting, and when I think about kind of the traditional service provider. It's like they've build out their management stack, they build something at a scale, so that, you know, they can do something that their customer couldn't. It sounds like Nutanix is a different type of offering. We've been talking about it all week. It's not thriving in that complexity, but you know you just have a simple offering. And then, of course, you know price and easy to manage. Is something that service providers need, so, It sounds as if you built this ten years ago, you might have had to do something very different then how you do it today. >> Yeah, no, absolutely. It's given us a market that really hasn't been there in the past. You know, we can help resellers on the journey, we can give them a bit of a lift up, so. If their too small or they've just got going in cloud and they can't afford to get their own Nutanix platform, then we can get them going and then they can start going into Nutanix. But it's a real differentiate. It's like I say, to a lot of people, it's the safe bet it's your AWS. It's you know a Microsoft name. No one ever gets sacked for by Microsoft kind of conversation. >> I think one of the other compelling things is the cost of it as well. A lot of people think it's cheaper to go as your AWS. Actually it's mechanics are very cost effective for our customers and that's why it appeals for, you know the kind of smaller resellers that we deal with. >> You know, are you starting to do any connection now that you think about as your AWS have their direct connect. When you have people's environment, sometimes they might want to access those services or are you starting to look that, in that environment? Where some of the Nutanix hybrid solutions? >> Yeah, so what we do at the moment is we backup mainly to Azure. So we've, we've a central core platform with Nutanix and then, we're back up as a failover to Azure. But, again, customers don't like the complexity of even doing that as a back up. So it's been great coming to the event and seeing the Nutanix backup and the options there because our customers love Nutanix. >> So are you interested in the mine solution, that has been rolling out? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah, yeah absolutely. That's one of the things that we're really looking forward to going back to explore. And that will be next on our road map. >> Are you starting to look out as to which solution with mine you're going to use or are you still under discussion? >> Yeah, we'll leave that to our technical director. I'm sure he'll point us in the right direction. >> One of the things we hear a lot about at this conference is Nutanix's culture. It's people first culture. It's humble, honest, hungry. How does that come into play in terms of your interactions with the company? >> I think for us, that's a culture that we have as well in our own business. And that really does shine through for every person that we've ever dealt with at Nutanix. There it's always customer first. I can't fault them, they're amazing. >> I think for us, it doesn't feel like you're a big company because it's such of a personal relationship. So it doesn't feel like you're talking to a big corporate company where you're not heard, you know, if you're not a a big customer. The relationships we've got with people work and just pick up the phone it might be a really senior position and they'll help us, and that's something that's really good in Nutanix. >> I'm wondering if you've had any experience with Nutanix support, so we know uptime is, is super critical. So what is your experience? >> Yeah, fantastic. I mean, from an operational perspective, I love the self healing, that's built into the platform. Anyway, I love the fact that my technical guys don't have to be uber technical to be able to operate. That's one of the other benefits in Nutanix for us. It ticks all the boxes from an operational perspective. >> I think from our side as well, the technical guys, so, our first and second line guys can understand Nutanix. They can get their head around it, so it's very easy to train and more with Nutanix as opposed to other platforms where it can take up to a year to really understand how the platform works. It is very, very simple for our support desk. Which means, it is less demand on the support that's got Angie then. >> Training in the skills gap is a hugely important issue in the technology world. It's in the United States and also in Europe. How are you finding it, what is it like to be a Leeds based company, are you finding the people you need to fill the roles you have open? >> We're really lucky actually, because our technical director is an ex-trainer, so we can do a lot of the training on site. But Nutanix training is something that we're definitely going to be tapping into. I've been speaking to the guys here, and that's another useful thing for us to take back to the UK. >> Give our audience a little bit of insight, so you know, what you get out of coming out to the Nutanix conference, you came last year to London, you came out here to Copenhagen. What were you hoping to accomplish? What are the conversations been, give us a little bit of a flavor. >> I think it's been good to network with other Nutanix customers to understand their journey. Definitely to learn about what Nutanix is doing now and in the future. When you're running a business it's kind of head down sometimes. Allowance, you know, you don't get time to really sit and look up what the market is doing. So for us, it's also to be part of our journey, you know, we went to event four or five years ago when it was much smaller, much newer name. And to see how fast Nutanix has gone is amazing. It really is. >> Absolutely, I think it's given us clarity on what we need to do next year. Like I say, you've helped us by coming here today and yesterday, seeing the presentations on how we can implement that into our own business. And how we can really take Nutanix forward. >> In terms of the future, you said you are going to, you're looking into Mine. You're thinking about using some of the Nutanix training, capabilities. >> Frames, Beam. >> So, there's a lot there. >> So yeah, we've really honestly taken so much back and I can't wait now. I think for me personally, it's re-energized me. I'm excited about going back and just working out where we can really take Nutanix forward. >> And what's next for Hardy Fisher? >> It's just growth, we're at an early journey now. So we're kind of at the start of our journey, over the next five years, it's all about growth. We see Leeds as a bit a city that's growing itself. We've had a lot of changes in Leeds as a city. It's still quite small. It's a digital city, but it's got massive focus on growing. We're having a big part of that because we're one of three data centers in Leeds. So, it's not a heavily populated area for data centers. And we're all about helping local resellers, you know, get on that ladder for Nutanix. >> So that will be a big driver for us, you know help the small MSPs. You know, let them touch and feel Nutanix in our data center. And then hopefully give them the leg up for them to buy their own boxes, and then co-locate that in the data centers as well. >> So, as as as devoted Nutanix customers, any advice for Dirige Pandey? He's got, he's under a lot pressure. It's a competitive landscape. You love Nutanix. >> Angie: He's nailed it. >> David: I think, just keep doing what they're doing. >> Rebecca: Stick to your knitting. >> Don't get sold to one of the bigger boys and keep the-- >> Yeah, absolutely, keep the culture. And the, everything that you're doing technically wise it's just unreal. We're blown away. >> I think the culture as well, keep it to grow as big as you are now, keep that culture which has been very hard. I mean, we try doing it in our businesses. You know we have a very hardworking ethic. But we want people to enjoy where they work. We want to have a good work flow, life balance. And it's very difficult to do in a big company. >> Is it, do you like working with each other, in your husband and wife team? >> Yeah, it has it's challenges. (laughing) It has it's challenges but we've worked together for 12 years now, so. >> It's gotten better at work. >> All right. >> It's very hard because, I sell it and I support it, so unless I sell it properly I get in trouble. (laughing) >> Dog house. >> I have to reign him in. >> Exactly, well David an Angie, thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you very much for having us. Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We'll have more for Nutanix.NEXT in Copenhagen coming up in just a little bit.

>> Announcer: Live, from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE! Covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.NEXT. We are at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, alongside of Stu Miniman, of course. We are joined by a good friend of theCUBE, Ray Wang, principal analyst and CEO of Constellation Research. Thank you so much for returning to theCUBE. >> Hey, how you doing? Good morning! >> Good morning, good morning! >> Good morning! (laughing) >> Good morning! >> I don't know. I get all my accents wrong out here. >> (laughing) So, you got a shout out on the main stage this morning, from Monica Kumar, congratulations on that. She talked about you and your research on the infinite role of computing. You also do a lot with the future of work. I know that that is really right in your wheelhouse right now. What are you hearing, what are you seeing, what kinds of conversations are you having that are interesting you? >> Yeah, so, this infinite computing option, it's one of the that we're talking about, the fact that you can scale out forever, right? And the problem that's holding us back has been technical debt, right? So all that legacy that everyone's got to figure out. It's like, my connections, my server, my disk-rack recovery, my disaster recovery, my backup, everything. It's a pain in the butt. And I'm still trying to get onto the cloud. So on that end, we're like, okay, all this stuff is holding us back, how do we get there? Now, the future of work is a little bit different. We're seeing a very very different set of work. People have talked about where we are the gig economy, but that's just one aspect of it. Everything is being decomposed into microservices. Large processes are becoming smaller and smaller microservices, they're being reusable, well our work and tasks are following the same way. We're getting smaller and smaller tasks, some are more repetitive, some are going to be automated, and it's really about where we actually find the difference between augmentation of humanity, and full automation, and that's where the next battle's going to be. >> Yeah, Ray, some of the discussions we've been having this week, is how do we really simplify the environment? The balance I hear from customers, on the one hand, they're always like, I don't have enough money, I don't have enough personnel, on the other hand, oh my gosh, that full automation sounds like you're going to put me out of a job. We know we're not putting everybody out of work in the next couple of years. There are challenges; we worry about the hollowing out of the center of the economy, but here, what Nutanix is trying to do, of course, is, I don't want to have to thrive in that complexity anymore, I want to be able to drive innovation, keep up with that, take advantage of that unlimited resources out there, so, where do you see, you've been here at the show, what are you hearing from the customers here? Anything different in Europe versus back in North America that you'd share about that journey onto the changing roles? >> Oh it's a great point. It's about simplifying everything where you can, it's about areas of automation where they make sense. Here in Europe it's slightly different because a lot of the focus in Europe has been about cost and efficiency, followed by of course regulatory. Those have been the two drivers. And they've been battling that in order to be, even they will look at some level of innovation. Where in the US, people are head on doing innovation, regulatory and operational efficiency at the same time. So that creates a very very different environment. But what we have noticed are some patterns, especially when we look at automation and AI; there are four areas out of seven where we see a lot more automation that's happening. The first one is massively repetitive tasks, those are things, yeah, got to get that out of the way, we don't do this very very well. The second one is really thinking about massive nodes of interaction. When you're connected to multiple places, multiple organizations, multiple instances, that's something where we start to get overwhelmed, and then of course, there's lots of volume. If you've got lots of volume or requests that are coming through, you can't possibly handle that, and that's a place where we see a lot of machine scale. And the last piece is really when you have to scale, humans don't scale very well. However, it's actually not a hollowing out of the middle; it's actually a hollowing out of the ends in a very, very real end, because really really simple tasks go away, super complex tasks go away, and the middle actually remains, and the middle is things that are complex that cannot be recreated by math, they're also areas that require a lot of creativity, humans make the rules, we break the rules, and then the last part is really fine motor skills and presence, the machines still aren't as good. So we still have some hope. So the middle stays, it's the hollowing out of the ends, the high end jobs and the low end jobs are the ones where we're going to see a lot of risk. >> So what does that mean? So we have, leaving the middle there, and as you said, the high end jobs and the low end jobs go away, but what does that mean in terms of the skills? In terms of what employers are looking for, in terms of what they need in their prospective applicants and hirees. >> That's a great point. Soft skills are important; it's the qualitative skills that become even more important, it's also being able to manage and orchestrate the hard skills; because you don't necessarily have to know how to do the calculation, you have to just know which algorithm to apply. >> Okay, and then also, these soft skills of managing people, I'm assuming too? Because computers are not so good at that either. >> Yes. Soft skills are managing people, but also manage the human and machine equation that's going to happen. Because we have to train the machines, the machines aren't going to know that level of intuition, and there's a large amount of training that's going to happen over time. >> All right. So, Ray, one of the things Nutanix is doing is, as they've been transforming to not only subscription, software's always been at their core, but they're starting to do not just infrastructure software, but application software. I know you live in that world quite a lot, so when you hear Nutanix talking about building databases, delivering these services, it's something that I look at, Amazon does some of that, but for the most part they're infrastructure and build on top of us. How do you think, how is Nutanix doing, what are some of the challenges for them, going up against some of the bellwethers out there in tech, and all the open source projects that are out there. >> So the challenge is always going to be, there is a one dominant player in every market. And what they're providing is an alternative to allow the orchestration of not having that, not only that dominant player, but a choice. So in every single market, they're focused on giving users choice, and giving the ability to aggregate, and bring everything into one single plane. That is tough to do, right? And the fact that they see that as their big hairy audacious goal, that's impressive. If you said they were going to do this three years ago, I wouldn't have believed them. >> Well yeah, I think back to, remember almost 10 years ago, VMware tried to get into applications, they bought Zimbra, they bought a few others. Cisco did like 26 adjacencies, they were going to take over video and do all these things, and we've seen lots of failures over the years. They refocused on their core, was a big thing that I heard, that the users seem to be excited about. Are there areas that you're find especially interesting as to where Nutanix is poking? >> So, I would say that Nutanix three years ago was a little bit sleepy. They got comfortable, they did the stuff that they did really well, and it feels like, maybe about 12 months ago, Dheeraj had a different vision. Like something snapped, something hit, he said this isn't working, we're going to change things, and we've seen a whole bunch of new talent come into play. We've also seen a huge expansion of what they're trying to do, and a cleanup of all those side projects that were all going on before. So I think they've actually honed in on, okay, if we can simplify this piece, this is a money-winning business for some time, and they're talking about 80% margins last quarter, I mean that's huge, and that's just trying to save customers money, and make their lives simpler. >> Do you think that they have the messaging right? Because, I mean, they're going to this Thoreauvian/Emersonian idea of simplify, simplify, simplify, and it does resonate, of course! What customer doesn't want a simpler computing experience? But do you think that they are reaching the right people, and they have obviously very passionate customers, but are they getting into new businesses. >> I think they're getting to the businesses that their customers are asking them to, those adjacencies are huge, I think and when you think about cleaning up technical debt, all that legacy debt that you actually have to fix, I mean, this is where you begin. It's so hard to make that cloud journey to begin with, it's even harder to carry all that legacy with you. And we're going to see a lot more of this going forward. >> All right. So, Ray, talk a little bit about, I loved an event you did last year, the people's centered digital future. Help explain to our audience what this is about, and where you're taking it again this year. >> So that event was a one-time event. We were celebrating the 70th anniversary of the United Nations founding, we were celebrating almost 50 years of the internet, and 50% of the world being connected to the internet. And part of the reason that was an important event was, we really felt that there was a need to get back to the roots of where the internet had begun, and more importantly, talk about where we are today in the world of privacy. One of the biggest challenges we have in the a digital world is that your personal data, your genomics, all this information about you is being brokered for free. And what we have to do is take that back. And by taking that back, what I mean is, we've got to make all these rights, property right. If we can make that a property right, we can leverage the existing rules and legislation that's there, and we can actually start paying people for that data through consent, and giving people that ability, on consent to data, could create lots of things, from universal basic income, to a brand new set of data economy that equalizes the playing field, while keeping the large tech giants. >> There's some of those big journeys that we went on, you talk about the internet, this year's 50th anniversary of the first walking on the moon, and you look at how entire countries rallied together, so much technology was-- >> Yeah, look at India. >> Spun off of what they've done there, it's like we need some rallying cries in today's day and age to solve some of these big day and age. Is that AI? Where are some of the big areas that you see tech needing to drive forward in the next decade? >> I think the big area's going to be around decentralization, giving individuals more empowerment. We've got large, big tech companies, that are, I'd say, imbalanced. We start companies right away, building monopolies on day one, and we don't open up those markets. And the question is, how do we create a level playing field for the individual to be to compete, to bring a new idea, and to innovate, if that's continuously stifled by big technology companies without an opportunity, we're in trouble. And so that starts by making data a property right, to the personal data. It starts by also creating marketplaces for that data, and those marketplaces have to have regulations, similar to capital market flows. The way treat exchanges, we treat marketplaces, we need to do the same thing with the way we do with data, and then the third piece, there has to be some level of a tax, that goes to all these data economies, so that they can fund the infrastructure and the watch dogs that are there. Now this is coming from a free market, I'm a free market capitalist, okay? I can't stand regulation, but I also realize that it's so important that we have a fair market. >> But do you, we know so much about how Americans are so much more cavalier about their privacy than even Europeans, what will it take to galvanize Americans to care about those little crumbs that they're leaving on the internet, that is the data that you say should be a property right, that we should be paid for? >> I think it's going to start with companies actually take, and do the right thing, where they actually give them that opportunity to monetize that information. >> Will they do that? >> I think the new set of startups are starting to do that, because they're looking at the risk that's being posed, at Facebook and Google and Amazon, on the anti-trust, DOJ, FCC, they're all coming in at the same time, the FTC, they're all wondering, do we break these companies up or not? The short answer is, I don't think they're going to, because we're competing with China, and when you're looking at that scale of data, where Amazon's transactions are only 1/10 of Ali Baba's? That's huge. So the consolidation has to happen, but we need to create a layer that actually democratizes and creates a fair trading play. >> And those startups, you think, can compete with established players? >> I think once we set the roles, and the ground rules, I think people are going to be able to do that, but once you free that data, what are we competing on now? You have to pay for my consent, you have to earn my business, you can't trade it for free, or just say, "Hey look, you are the product." That changes everything. >> Rebecca: Yeah, that's a good point. >> Ray, I know you spend a lot of time talking to, and giving advice to some of the leaders in technology, you're welcome to get into some specifics about Nutanix, or some of the cloud players, but what are some of the key themes, what are people getting right, and what are they still doing wrong? >> Okay, so theme number one, this is going to be a multicloud hybrid world for a long time. Anybody that's bucking the multicloud trend, they've missed the point, right? Because we want portability in data, there's only two or three players in every single market, if I can't move my data, my workloads, and my IO in and out, then you've actually created vendor lock-in from hell. And I think customers are going to protest against that. The second one, and you guys are probably following this trend a lot, is really about AI ethics and design principles for AI. So what is ethical AI? We've got five things that are important: The first one is make sure it's transparent. See the algorithms, see what they write. Second one, make sure it's explainable. Hey, bias is not a bad thing, so if I'm discriminating against redheads, with, left-handed, and that happened to like, I don't know, Oracle, fine. But, if that was unintended, and you're discriminating against that, then we have to get rid of that, right? And so we have to figure out how to reduce that kind of bias, if it's unwanted bias. If you discover that you're discriminating, and not being inclusive, you've got to make sure that you address that. So then the next part is, it's got to be reversible. And once you have that reversibility, we also make sure that we can train these systems over time. And then the last piece is, Musk could be right! Musk could be right, the machines might take over, but if you insert a human at the beginning of the process, and at the end of the process, you won't get taken over. >> I want to hear about what the future of work looks like for Ray Wang. You are on the road constantly, you are (laughs) you are moving your data from one place, you are everywhere, all the time. So what do you have on next, what's exciting you about your professional life? >> I think the challenge's that we are living in a world where there's too much information, too much content. And you guys say this all the time, right? Separating the signal from the noise. And people are willing to pay for that signal. But that is a very very tough job, right? It's about the analysis, the insights, and when you have that, people don't want to read through your reports. They don't want to watch through the videos. They just want to call you up and say, "Hey, what's going on?" And get the short version of it. And that's what's making it very interesting, because you would expect this would be in a chat bot, it'd be in a robo advisor, doesn't work that way. People still want the human connection, especially given all that data out there, they want the analysis and insights that you guys provide, that's very very important, but even more important right now, it's really about getting back to those relationships. I think people are very careful about the relationships they're keeping, they're also curating those relationships, and coming back to spending more time. And so we're seeing a lot more of in-person meetings, in-person events, very very small, curated conversations, and I think that's coming back. I mean that's why we do our conference every year, as well, we try to keep 200 to 300 people intimately together. >> Those human connections, not going away. (laughs) >> Nope, not going away, in an automated, AI, digital world! This is our post-digital future. >> That's excellent. Well Ray, thanks you so much for coming on theCUBE, it's always so much fun to talk to you. >> Hey, thanks a lot. >> High energy guy (laughs). >> Low energy. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we will have more from the Bella Center at Nutanix.NEXT coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019 Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co host, Stu Miniman. We're joined by two guests this segment. We have Mayur Shah. He is the Global Head, Data Center and Software Defined Everything SDx at Wipro. Thank you for coming on the show. >> Thank you. >> And Thenu Kittappa, Director GSI Sales at Nutanix. Thank you so much. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we're talking today about fluid ITs. Wipro, of course, is an Indian multinational corporation based in Bangalore. You gave us a talk yesterday here at Nutanix .NEXT. Tell our viewers a little bit about how you view fluid IT. >> Sure. So we believe that the kind of transition the industry is going through, the pressure businesses are getting in terms of having their offering aligned to the customer expectations, they're digital natives, and so and so forth have digital transformations. They are also under tremendous pressure of innovating much faster than they used to do before. And the same pressure has been put back to the IT. How IT support that kind of changes and agility, which business would need in general. We believe that now, previously we used to have a plan for five years and a roadmap and we used to forecast what kind of architecture mission may end. But now it's time for us to give that back to business. There are a lot of uncertainties and how we can handle those uncertainties that's main reason why we are thinking little out of box in terms of getting things fluid. >> Mayur, I like that comment because part of the transition used to be I bought a product and I thought about how many years did I depreciate that product for? So I want to get your, what are you seeing and how is it impacting your customers? Nutanix talks about building experiences, so are they meeting that goal? How is that helping with both what you're doing and ultimately your end customers? >> So, what we believe is as you rightly say the end user customer's experience, business agility, and their competitiveness for customers at the prime, right? So the way we are now aligning our offerings, aligning to customer needs, changing our models of measurement from SLS to business level BLS. Those are the things which we are doing for aligning to the businesses and ensuring that they benefit in terms of many of our offering are now experience-driven. So SLS and BLS are also experience-driven, so we in our virtual desk offering, we offer the customers based on the experience problem, the penalties are assigned. So we proactively manage the end user experience without them even knowing it. So those are the few examples. >> Thenu, I have to imagine this is a big piece of your job is the traditional channel used to be how do we get beyond selling boxes, selling services, consulting and everything, but the SI is more about that whole experience. >> It's actually a whole different experience. It's been a great show for us from that perspective. We have a lot of our partners starting up, giving us the support we need from the SI community. Wipro was a sponsor, so it's been great. And to be honest, that's exactly what we're trying to do with SIs here. We're taking the solution and outcome based approach. Let's talk to the customer, what their business needs are. Let's see what kind of solutions we build to fit that. It's not just Nutanix. How does Nutanix work with HPE? How does Nutanix work with the networking, SDN? Let's give them an outcome-based solution. And let's support it with the right level of experience. So essentially, just in time to market is the goal that we're trying to achieve with partners like Wipro. >> Thenu, can you give us some examples of what, the kinds of conversations that you're having and then how it influences you when you go back to your company and you go back to Nutanix and you are then in the war room trying to figure out what kind of next new architectures and designs you can provide. >> So normally when we work with customers and with GSIs, you start with the core problem of what are you trying to solve over here, right? You have a five year plan. Are you trying to grow to a certain extent? Are you looking for your VDI to cater a certain security needs or certain financial needs? And so, then, it comes down to what is the business requirement here? Is it scalability? Is it reliability? Is it security? Is it financial modeling? You might be sitting with a customer who says, this is a great option, but I don't have budget to do this. I want to transform myself to the next level of technology, but I don't have a budget. And when we have these joint customer conversations with partners like Wipro, they say, great, let's offer a solution. And here, by solution, we not only cater to the technology, but we're also looking at where you need to end up in five years, what kind of business models and commercial models we can do to support you and what are the right products we can bring to you so that you only concern yourself with the outcome. You don't care about the infrastructure stack underneath it. Let's make everything invisible for you. But they just take our invisible story to a whole different level. >> Mayur, when I think about the transformations that customers are going through, the education and training is often a big piece of that. Where does that fit in to what you're doing, what services Wipro offers, education there, and how much of it does the simplicity of Nutanix involve in that? >> It's a great questions. So what we actually, and it helps us a lot, when we bring in the complex technologies for our end customers, they also have the owners and they need to get appreciative of what we are offering. With Nutanix's simplicity it's all given. They know that things work and things work super simple. Now whatever we bring on top of that, that's where it adds a lot of value without missing too much of time for enabling our end customers, and that gives outcome. So we are, as a whole, as a solution, we are able to give that outcome confidence and experience to customers. >> So what kinds of conversations are you having at this conference, in terms of what kinds of learnings are going on? You're talking to fellow customers of Nutanix and able to say hey, what you're doing over there, maybe we could try something similar at Wipro. >> Yeah, so one good part what I've seen people are using platform for variety of use cases, variety of business applications. Now we at Wipro, we have mastered some of them, but not all of them. But we see a lot of customers speaking about how they are using massive scale for HyperCloud, for instance. They are using it for databases, applications, mission critical applications, and we feel now it's time for us to branch out into that. >> I'd actually like to add to that. All the conversations we've had is amazing with customers. You think you built a product to meet x use cases, and then the customer comes back and says, you guys did great with being on these X use cases, but guess what? I found out this X plus 1 use case, and it's perfect. And that is what we take back and say, okay, is there a market around this, which we can then commercialize and make it easy to consume? >> What would you say, so you're based in San Jose, and you've been with Nutanix for five years now. What would you say are some of the differences that you've seen from US customers versus here we are in Copenhagen, European customers, and also Indian customers? >> Oh, that's a difficult questions. You're really putting me in a difficult position here. But in general, I would, you know, our European customers look to innovation, but they also look to baked in solutions, and more tighter integration and collaboration with partners. The US customers want to be on the cutting edge of technology. They're very high risk-takers, so when you're defining a solution and a model that works for them, it's a completely different ball game in terms of how much risk they are willing to take, what price point they want to do, and then they're also very, very particular about I want Vendor A, B, and C to work together. Go make it happen. With a lot of the Indian and the Asian customers, and even our European customers, they're more SLA based. Mayur, what do you think? >> Absolutely. I think we see a clear, here in this area of Europe, they are much mature, the second and third level of outsourcing people. They are aware of SLAs, they are aware of the services. They expect a little more than what we do and we, let's say if you compare back to India and US in some time, they are the first time or second time outsourcers, but here's the difference, they clearly wonder about the outcome. >> Mayur, the announcements that we've had this week. Are there anything that you're looking to take back to your customers, or anything that either announced or some of the previews they've been giving that you're especially excited about? >> Sure. So I think there's a great timing. I was just talking last night. We are doing investments, innovation investments for three years, it's a three years plan. And exactly the synergies so well. The announcement, what we have heard here are kind of synergizing what we are doing in the road map. For example, we and the fluid IT what she told, is all about delivering those next generation future-proof architecture, leveraging those announcements. The era, we are working on databases as always, which covers the mission-critical application, and things in a much advanced way. We believe in our road map here, we calling it a service theater, which actually delivers the experience and outcome. So there are synergies they talked about insights. And we are talking about delivering those real time, predictable stuff, based on, and our vision is to give intent with everything, so you have to just define the intent and things will fall in place. So there are a lot of synergies and we definitely take back few of them, which is databases as a service, insights, IOTA, Edge, a few key things we will take from here. And of course the HyperCloud, the AWS migration. >> Well, Mayur's being very, very humble here. One of the announcements that we did make over here at the conference was Wipro has standardized with Nutanix on their virtual desk solution and we're going back to both our customers, their customers, and our field with this offering. So the virtual desk is their own IP. They've done very well in the past with virtual desk, but as they are looking to do more standardization, get in to the next generation solutions, we worked very closely with them to build a Nutanix and HPE-based stack with Centrix, to offer this as a turnkey solution, which they've already done, but with better economics and time to market. >> And do you see that as sort of the future? >> Yes. That pretty much becomes a fundamental building block based on which almost all of our other solutions are going to to get built. The next one coming up will be database as a service, similar constructs. How do you make database consumption and Ops transfer to the end user? Followed by IoT, now IoT is a real different ball game because everything is customized. A lot of customers like to go dabble in it, but at the end of the day you need to build a solution around it. >> Thenu, and actually one of the questions we've had is we look as Nutanix moves beyond just infrastructure software to some of the application software, seems that the GSIs would be a critical player for building services. >> Yes! We actually have this really funky graph, verticals, base our AoS, where do GSIs fit in. It's the solution and pulling everything together, and making it more of a customer business case based offering, as opposed to a customer piecing itself. It's becoming a big ask with G2Ks, right? They're not doing large RFPs, they're actually doing very business-based SLAs, and now the control lies with the business owners within large customers. So it fits very well with our story. >> Excellent. Well, thank you so much Thenu and Mayur. Thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, our pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Our pleasure. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .Next coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat electronic music)

(Upbeat Techno Music) >> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's theCUBE! Covering Nutatnix.Next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix.Next. We are here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, alongside of Stu Miniman, the analyst for theCUBE. We have two guests for this segment. We have Manoj Agarwal. He is the SVP of Engineering at Nutanix. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you Rebecca. That's good. >> And Gil Haberman. He is the Senior Director of Product Marketing at Nutanix. Thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Thanks for having me. So, our topic today is Xi Clusters. These were announced at Anaheim, at .Next back in Anaheim. Gil, why don't we start with you. Describe the business problems you were hearing from customers and how these Xi Clusters are designed to help solve them. >> Gil: Sure, first thanks for inviting me. I'm a big fan of theCUBE. It's so great to be here. To your question, at Nutanix, we've been working with customers on the vision of Hybrid Cloud for a number of years now. And the different challenges have evolved over time. Initially, there were pockets of public cloud adoption where customers wanted to simply find a way to operate across multiple clouds. But today, the challenges are different. Now, as customers are looking to adopt business critical applications that span private and public, bursting and migrating applications, there's a strong need for consistency across environments. And we gear around consistency around 3 aspects. The first is infrastructure. The second is operations. And the third is the consumption model itself. From an individual perspective, what we keep hearing is that the same VMs and applications must be able to work across environments, without significant replatforming or retooling. From an operation's perspective, cloud engineers truly need a way to utilize the same practices, integrations, in work that they have done on their applications for many years, across multiple clouds. So there's a need to sustain the same practices across these multiple clouds. And finally from a consumption model perspective, there's a need to have a platform that drives the same level of consistency in terms of licensing and software across different environments. And for that, we at Nutanix have to evolve to empower operators to be able to address all of these needs of consistency across private and public. >> Now, I would like to add something to it. You just think about three years ago. The entire world was talking about "Everything is going to be public cloud." And very soon, all these CIOs also realized that it's not going to be just public cloud or just private cloud. It's going to be Hybrid. And we ran a survey with 2,700 IT professionals who participated in the survey, and what we learned mainly 91% of them, they said hybrid is ideal. And the second thing that was not also a surprising thing was 94% of them, they said the app migration or app mobility is going to be the key. And then we look at that option like "How are you going to adopt?" And that was also strikingly similar, like what we see currently maybe 18% or so, that they are into the hybrid world and getting onto close to 41% or so in the next 24 months. >> Yeah, but Manoj, I'm glad you brought that up. When I talk to users, the thing that they're concerned the most about are their applications% and their data. And in IT forever, migrations have been a challenging thing to do and it was usually, you set up a migration and it takes you weeks or months to do it. Today, migrations aren't even going to be even a one time thing. If I'm moving from one cloud to another, if I'm moving from private to public, or even public to private. I need to have some flexibility to what I'm building. How has that informed how you're building your architectural designs? >> That's a great point. In fact, we always feel that architecture matters, and why the fundamental technologies that we are building should help. Two things that I'll say. One is the data replication technologies that we have built and strengthened over time. Plus the second thing is the network. If you get the network right, then you are very slowly there. And we had been reflecting on the data side, you know. 10 years of journey and data replication technologies like we have built. Networking we have been very hard at work on that front also in the last three years or so, with the building of Xi Cloud. We'll see and hear more and more, especially in the context of Xi Cluster. What you see is that we have done the ready integration with AWS ETCs. Thereby first of all all the services that exist in AWS. It's available to the customers with their app, running on XI Clusters without changing anything there. >> This is a competitive market so let's talk about differentiation. How do you see the product as completely different from your rivals and then how are you positioning it to your customers? >> Yeah. I'll go back to again the same thing. Architecture matters. We were not the first ones to go out with a hybrid converse like in 2013. There were a lot of competitive solutions that existed at the time. But we took our time. We wanted to make sure that we do it right. We do provide choice to our customers. That's where we matter. As we are building out solutions, again going back to the four principles. Applications sort of require change. You don't require an IPO presence to change, so when we are building the solution, we are making sure if you want to pay for private cloud, on-prem our service provider. Or you want a public cloud. Any of the big cloud players or this new cloud, that you have a common architecture underneath. You have the same management plain with the prism. You can really orchestrate, and manage the entire infrastructure. You have the flexibility in terms of the networking. Other services that you want to go and use, you have the choice of wahtever platform also. Like something that we don't want you to go and change if you don't need a change. Lastly, I would say, on the business side, we do want to give the smarty cloud world the flexibility for the customers to bring a cloud of their choice and if they want to switch, they should be able to switch with one click also. >> Yeah. Gil, I'm wondering if you can actually explain to our audience one of the challenges here is deploying unbared metal is not something that anybody can just do on the public clouds. For AWS, the first solution was actually VM ware on AWS. They had to develop that but they're now opening that to be able to use. Can you walk us through where we are with the cloud providers and that's I think part of the reason why this isn't yet generally available. Indeed, AWS has been the first to open bare metal and this is really the path for us at Nutanix to make clouds invisible as well. We worked with a number of platforms on Prem and now we want to extend that to public cloud and having an ability to actually access bare metal is the first step in doing so. Beyond that, what we've done is what we believe is the hard work of making things very simple to drive customer delight. And so what we've done is integrate into AWS rather than just running on top of AWS, inside existing accounts and VPCs of customers and the outcome has benefits on both technology and business perspective. From the technology perspective, cloud operators can see all bare metal as well as cloud native services in one place, one inventory. And we believe that this type of topology will provide better performance. And then on the business side, this allows us to do a couple of things. The first, if you are an AWS user like most of our customers, they can use AWS credits for that bare metal infrastructure. At Nutanix, we are now able to evolve our services to provide hybrid licenses, so our licenses would eventually be portable. And so you see how we are gradually building towards this portability across multiple clouds, AWS being the first cloud. >> Yeah, it's great to see Nutanix- We've seen a few other companies moving towards that model because if I'm software and truly agnostic, you should be able to have it across those environments. I believe Solidfire a couple of years ago started doing some of the things; A couple other companies. So the X in AWS sounds like it will be first. We know Google has been the partner of Nutanix for a while. Could you just give us where are we with Google and Azure? Kind of to round out the big three. >> Sure, so we have started to work with AWS and we have announced early access now inviting customers to sign up with us to get access. We are also actively working with Azure to figure out how to together bring better bare metal services and the type of software on top of that. And of course, we believe that other cloud vendors are going to open this up as well and Google Cloud being a close partner of ours is an important part of that strategy as well. >> And we are doing something with Google already as you know. We have integrated the entire stack using their nested vertilization technologies, like running on their vertilization the HB which is nested. Today, we run a lot of our customers prospect they run. The test, our experience the entire solution on Google test prime. We have brought out more than a thousand users every month, that they access it. So it's a journey, like when they have the full bare metal, you can see a lot more but we are very engaged with them. >> I want to talk about the future now and have you looked into your crystal ball a bit, 6, 10, years from now. What do you see- This is such a fast changing environment but how do you see the cloud evolving and then how do you see Nutanix? What role does Nutanix play? >> Last 10 years, it was all about how we bring public cloud into the private cloud, right? Next 5, 10 years when you think about it is all how do we really make it hybrid. The experience that what customers have come to expect in the last 10 years. You can go and pick any kind of platform on which you want to run the same stack. You won't need to worry about it. Something similar that needs to happen and the underlying architecture of technology which will go and drive that is going to be data mobility, same control plane that can go and extend this smarty cloud. This story by the way resonates very very well with the customers because it's not easy to get your IT for support, to get trained on different cloud technologies also because the talent things cost there. And if you can go and teach them one interface and have them run with the choice of infrastructure or the back form or the cloud, that's what we think we can make a huge difference for the customers. >> Yeah, so I want to make sure I understand when talking about your hybrid or multicloud strategy, we've got Xi Clusters help you get in and matches what you have on sight. Have you had a conversation about Kubernetes yet? Where does Carbon which is the Nutanix Kubernetes fit into this overall discussion? Is that just part of the platform that gets baked in and therefore we don't need to talk about it or am I missing a piece? >> That's a great question because the beauty of what we're talking about is that we bring the entire software and the entire platform with us wherever we go. Part of that stack is carbon and calm. We need the ability to have both traditional applications alongside modern applications with Kubernetes. Even hybrid applications that include some front end that might be containerized, maybe back end that is not yet containerized. And all that, everything that we've been doing on-prem, can now be moved into any other public cloud we provide. >> It's part of the compute, right? You got the VMs, now you got the containers. It's part of the backbone. >> So yeah, we've heard from some people say that Kubernetes is just the new containerized compute. We don't need to talk about it and I'm okay with that, because it's just in there. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Excellent. Well Gil and Manoj, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Manoj: Thanks so much for hosting us. >> Gil: Thanks for having us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of .Next. (Techno outro plays)

>>live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. Okay, Welcome back, everyone. To the Bella Centre in Copenhagen, Denmark. We are kicking off day two of the cubes live coverage of dot Next Nutanix the Nutanix show dot Next I'm your host, Rebecca night sitting alongside stew. Minutemen, of course, Do. The word of the day is delight. And in Copenhagen, Denmark, which is a year after your voted the most happy, the happiest country, the country that coined the term Hugh Ge, which means a sense of well being. What do you think delight It means in the context of this show in particular. >>Yeah, Rebecca. Right yesterday I thought I only knew one word. Ivan tackle. It was, Thank you, of course, but Hugh GE is actually one I I'd read about cause it's interesting. The study of happiness. They actually have an institute here in Denmark on talk about it. As you said, the people are some of the happiest. You say, Wow, it's, you know, often cold and rainy and things like that. But they do look into the study of delight, and it's it's something that I find pretty fascinating. I read a book by Tony Shea, who's the founder and CEO of Zappos talked about. You know, we all talk about where you want to go in career and what you want to do. But you know, how do we actually understand happiness and bringing it to the Tannic Show? Definitely. There is a certain joy from the community here. We've had a lot of talk with some of the practitioners as well as some of Nutanix employees, they want to say customer focused. They wantto, you know, build these experiences as the CEO Dheeraj Pandey said. And therefore, it's not about that that product, because so much in technology it's that new, shiny thing that we understand. Oh, it's never a silver bullet, and there's always the repercussions. And how do I have to reorganize? Things change so fast and technology. But if I could have experienced with the example get used all the time, is you know what would transform when we move to you know, the smartphone revolutionized by the iPhone or so many other things that just pull together, that that simplicity that gets baked in the design, something we've talked about both, You know, in Denmark as well as from the Nutanix discussion s o. So pulling those pieces together kind of a left brain right brain all pulling together. It has been interesting. And yeah, it gives kind of a highlight as to why Copenhagen was a nice place. Definitely. We've enjoyed, you know, being here at the show. >>Absolutely. And I think you're you're you're you're right on or we'll be talking a lot about designed today because delight is one of those again. It's something ineffable quality. You don't know you're being delighted because you're just being delighted. It's just nice at the ease of use. And in Monica Kumar, who we had on the show yesterday, of course, was talking about all all of the elements that go into that, taking 10 clicks and making enemies e swipe, eliminating downtime just a kn easy, intuitive use, which is which is absolutely what goes into delighting customers. We're gonna have a teacher. I'm a Chandran on the show today, talking Maura about designed to, uh, tell me about the energy of the show. We're gonna get into Nutanix a bit more today too. But just what do you think about the energy? Ah, what what you're feeling. >>So there are certain shows that we go to where we know that you have the true believers at the show. Splunk sw dot com is one where they all love the geeky T shirts that they get and people enjoy their service. Now, another one. A lot of the software companies it transformed the way they think. And then then they work. S O. You know, Dave wanted for years would tell me about that community community I know. Well, the VM world community. This reminds me of earlier days in VM World VM wear, you know, is dominant in their space. But, >>you know, >>they're shows. Not exactly. You know, a There are parties and their friends that we get together and one of the best communities in the industry. But, you know, it's a much, much bigger company. When you're 60,000 people and things like that, there's not as much of the kind of smaller, you know, touch and feel. You know, we heard from Monica yesterday. She talked about right when she joined the company. You know, somebody she knew would reached out about an issue that need to be worked out and just seamless, all swarming to solve that issue. Something, you know, I've done it. Some companies I've worked out where you know what teams pulling for. You know, the customer comes first and you get things done. So the customers here definitely are highly engaged, very excited because the experience of using the solution has made their lives easier and transfer help them transform their business. You know, that goal of I t helping toe not only support but be a driver of the business is exciting. >>So So exactly. And this is what we're gonna be talking about today to new tenants. They have this passionate customer base which they will need as they are a maturing company. So not now They're 10. They're hitting their their tween age years. So talk a little bit about what you're seeing about Nutanix trajectory and what it needs to do to to hit those next steps. >>S o. You know, the discussion for the last two years has been the move from removing hardware for something that they sold, which was always it was the software that was important and changes really passed along the hardware to this move to subscription, and along with that, it isn't just the same core a OS Nutanix software and some of the pieces that go with it. But really, they're expanding beyond infrastructure software to some of the application software. So yesterday we had Nikola, who's the CEO of Frame Frame, is desktop as a service S O. That was the type of software that sat on top of Nutanix or on top of the cloud expanding in that market. We're going have Bala on today to talk about ERA its database database absolutely an application that's that on Nutanix. But now they're building some of these applications. It's interesting. Almost 10 years ago, VM where tried to get into the application space they bought an email company they bought a social company on. Really, that didn't pan out well for them. Amazon does not sell many of their. They sell some of their own application, but most of them are an open source solution that is then delivered as opposed to the building applications. On top of a building applications is that the realm of Oracle on Microsoft and IBM have these, so it positions Nutanix in it in a little bit of different space. And how much are they going to have the customers that bought the platform that will build the service's leverage? The service is on top of them versus how many customers will come to them because of that application. Say, Oh, well, you know, database is one of those challenging things. If I could just have a nice, simple solution and maybe that's in the cloud. Or maybe it is on, you know, Nutanix environment in their data center on their server of choice. You know there are some Pastor Newtown is going forward to a much broader tam, but it's much broader competition, too, and you know their sales force and there's go to market their there's partners we're gonna spend a little time talking about, like the systems integrators today s Oh, it is a big, vast sea out there in the I T World. Nutanix has carved out a nice position where they are today, but, you know, opening up a number of areas of adjacent seas that they're going. So as they ride the software wave that they're pushing, it's an interesting one to set them up for the next 10 years. >>Absolutely. So what do you see are the biggest headwinds facing Nutanix right now. But as we've said, they have a passionate customer base. They've on the main stage. This morning we heard about their high net promoter score. We heard about there. They're amazing customer retention s o much repeat business. What do you think, though, Is is sort of the main What should be keeping dear Ege Pandey up at night. >>So one of the biggest challenges is you know, your 5000 person company. How do you keep growing at that pace? How can I hire we heard in Europe? It is a you know what it is a challenging market to hire. You are no longer that small startup that I'm going to get some AIPO bang for Buck. Now I'm a public company, you know, and you know, their stock incentives and things you can do. But Nutanix has a number of areas that they think they have exciting ways for people to be a part of some of these next waves that they're pushing. But that that is a big challenge. There is really cooperative in out there. We've spent much time talking about the ecosystem. They have a decent ecosystem, but their position in the cloud world Is there a player amongst many, many Betty, you know, hundreds, if not thousands, of companies out there When if you go to Amazon, reinvent you confined the Nutanix booth. But it's not one of the big players there you go to the Microsoft show, go to the Google shows. They are a small piece of that. And when we asked peerages, How do you position yourself and how do you, you know, get awareness in this environment? So when they had to down quarters, it was definitely marketing and sales, where the areas that they said they could not hire fast enough so they are going to need to invest more and they still aren't profitable. So we're almost three years past the I po. If you look at the transition to software, their revenues have been relatively flat. Their margins have been going up. But the market will not reward them if they can't keep the growth going. And, you know, start getting closer to that full profitability. >>Exactly, exactly. Well, these are all gonna be topics that we're going to dig deeper into today. We've got a great lineup of gas. And then, of course, the final keynote speaker. One of your faves. >>Yeah, Well, Kit Harington. Rebecca, What did you think of Carolina? >>She was fantastic. And I think what was really exciting about the interviewee, er was name Is Hae a friend of yours? Uh was It was how he was really drawing these analogies to Nutanix journey. It's similar to that of a professional athlete, and that is someone who who's getting knocked down and has to get back up against someone who's hit winning a few things, winning some business here, but she still needs >>She made a great point where said right. You know, the day after she was named number one, her father was like, Well, you need to get lower. You need to do this. And she's like, Wait, I'm number one. But you have to keep working or everyone will come after you. And so Nutanix is in a strong position, but absolutely they know that they need to keep working and training and improving listening to their customers to move forward. >>Absolutely, absolutely. So so. I think she had a lot of lessons for for Newtown Road, for the Nutanix community to so stew. I'm excited. For Day two, We're gonna have a lot of great custom, bloody great customers and Nutanix people on the show today to >>looking forward to it. And they had a fun party last night. They had the DJs were bumping. They had nice international food, some art and some interesting people dressed up as >>hedges and food >>and things walking around. So it was a little bit weird, but a lot of fun. >>And they're the happiest country in the world. What can we say? I'm Rebecca Knight. First Amendment, stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot next.

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the cube covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 brought to you by Nutanix. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Nutanix. Dot. Next we are here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with Stu minimun. We are joined by Nicola Bosun awic. He is the VP GM desktop services at Newtanics. Thanks so much for coming on the show. And also you piss Carr who is an industry analyst and and the many time guest on the cube. That's right. Thank you so much for coming on the show. So you are actually the founder of frame and frame was bought by Nutanix a about a year ago. So tell us a little bit about the acquisition, how its acquisitions are challenging. How has it has, how has it been going? >>It's mayor great year. Uh, there's no better place than a tannics to do end user computing in VDI. And that's what frame was all about. How we make it simple. Uh, that was also all about Newtanics. How do you make computing simple, fast, delightful, and um, we've done, uh, so many things to really bridge that world of on prem and cloud off traditional legacy VDI, like Citrix and VMware on hyperconverged infrastructure and now new broker like frame. And we are really looking at that as one end user computing team and just do what's right for the customers. So it's been a blast. Yeah. Nicola, you know, last year when we had you on, we talked a lot about frame, so you've got a broader mandate now to do the whole desktop services. Give us your view of the landscape a little bit out there as you know, definitely. >>I understand, you know, VDI traditionally, boy was it complicated building that stack, the infrastructure and the software pieces. Um, you know, where are your customers today and you know, how's the industry doing it a whole on that modernization journey. >> Uh, it, as I said, it's been a great 12 months. If you're in VDI. A lot of people who are in the traditional VDI world with brokers like Citrix and VMware are looking to modernize their data centers and there is no better options than uh, hyperconverged and Newtanics to have bite size and linearly, um, scaled infrastructure, run VDI. We continue to innovate, we continue to work closely with um, the vendors, especially Citrix. Um, and at the same time as the focus is shifting to the public clouds, uh, we are, um, having our own opinion and how the broker in the public cloud should look like with frame and then mixing and matching where the desktops really are and really looking at very, um, industry and vertical specific use cases. We're seeing lot of new adoption in healthcare and financial services and with frame, we're seeing a lot of new use cases in education and public sector as well. Right. >>Is this, is this jiving with what you see as the terms of the way they're positioning themselves and what you're hearing from your sources in the market? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, you know, given the trend that, you know, applications are going into the cloud, um, it makes sense to kind of pick up those, you know, those applications that are harder to virtualize, harder to move to the cloud and you know, find a way to bring them to the cloud as well. To bring that, I don't know, that cloud like experience for the older applications as well. Um, and then the other hand there's, you know, the simplicity of running the, um, the older desktops. Uh, the traditional VDI just likes to set, I mean, it's difficult to set up that whole environment to manage it, to make sure it continues to operate and then to have something that kind of replaces that with a simple solution. I mean, that's what customers are looking for. Yup. >>Nicola, I know some of the conversations I had years ago was, you know, it's not even desktop. It's, it's about my applications, it's about my users. It's about how things, things are changing. They're in today's world where have many customers who are trying to do SAS first. You know, how, how do you, I guess, reframe that conversation of, you know, what was, you know, we spent over a decade with that VDI discussion. Look, I think we're going to end up, when it comes to infrastructure and when it comes to virtualization, we're going to come ups where some somewhere in the middle where not everything's going to be public cloud and that everything's going to be on prem. It's going to be somewhere in the middle of when it comes to application delivery versus full desktops. It started obviously with app virtualization, but more and more people are looking at delivering full desktop solutions. >>There is a great benefit to it, consistent performance, um, you know, isolation and security or some things that come to mind and we are now able to deliver great performance. Look at windows 10, which is a big migration. We can deliver great windows 10 performance using Citrix or using frame and um, for example, some of the innovation that NVIDIA's bringing to market with a virtualizing GPS. So for the longest time it was a niche and as becoming more of a mainstream, if you just want your desktop to be scrolling smoothly, you'll probably need your GPU. So I think that's where a VDI and a simplicity of VDI, um, really takes over. >>So you are talking about speed and security. What about design? How does that play into it? >>Well, kind of Newtanics is all about, you know, data delivery, design and delight. And a, I think with end user computing, uh, it's end user for a reason. It's experienced by a user, it's experienced by an administrator, and at the end of the day, best user experience is going to win. So for administrators, if they can install their applications and manage them in one click, that's a great benefit. Then that's what we bring with combination of hybrid converged and a frame. Same goes for end user experience, um, as opposed to, let's say 10 years ago when everybody was in a wired network. Uh, these days people work from anywhere. They work from Starbucks, they work over and allows a seller a. So it's very important to have that user experience. Um, you know, uh, be delightful. And, um, that's something that we're very focused on. Yeah. I think I've had so many discussions this year about kind of the CX, the customer experience as well as the employee experience. So, you know, I would think that this whole EUC discussion ties it. What, what are you hearing from them and seeing out there? >>So, you know, the, the whole, the whole discussion about experience. Um, I think it's really important. I mean, employees have to do their job. They are given the tools to do the job, but sometimes the tools that are given or you know, slightly older, um, they may not be modern, they may not be web-based, they may not be performant or, so the issue is how do you, you know, in a very specific niche and a very specific use case, how do you make sure that the older application will actually continue running? Right? Um, how do you bring that, you know, windows application into a, um, into a framework where you can actually work with it everywhere on any device? Right. And that's, that's of where, where I see the, um, um, the wish for a good employee experience cannot be broken down by the technical technical limitations of what applications can do. Right. Um, and the issue is, you know, not every application is cloud native, not every, every application runs in the cloud. So you have to have something that kind of bridges that gap between, you know, on the one hand what you want to offer to the employee and the other hand what you're kind of forced to use in specific use cases. Um, there's just no other way than, you know, w using that old windows application. Yeah. >>Nicola, once again, I think back to some of the years of talking about VDI deployments and it was like up, well, organizationally, we're now off to have the desktop team versus the server team and the storage people need to get involved. And you brought a customer to come talk to the analyst yesterday and they didn't, they were like, we don't want to worry about any of this. We want to worry about our application, what's going on. So help, help explain a little bit, kind of some of the transformational potential of the new model. It's almost the same way we can hyper converged compute within storage and hypervisor. We're hyper converging all these different roles from the storage role to the it role to the business for all where to be honest, you don't need three separate people or three separate teams to do it. Um, solutions like, um, frame for example, make it possible to do that from a single pane of glass and to manage it all. So the customer that we had yesterday is doing that thing. Exactly. And it's not going even to there. It, um, in some cases, um, like, Oh customer we're going to have tomorrow Vodafone, uh, that is, they're on a hyperconverged still has lot more than what I'd call a legacy. It's 5,000 applications delivered to 50,000 concurrent users and they're just doing a new refresh shot. It's here to stay. VDI is here to stay. Yeah. What are >>you see as some of the biggest challenges facing companies like Nutanix? Um, particularly in this space? >>So, I mean, the biggest challenge is going to be integration, right? I mean Nutanix is becoming a big company. It's up to you, I don't know, 5,500 people. I think it's a big company. It's a lot of products that, you know, the portfolio is expanding. And so making sure that all of those solutions fit into the portfolio. And again, coming back to that experience, right? Um, so can candidates annex deliver a solution for many different problems within the data center and Indiana briars cloud without it seeming to be, you know, different products that are not integrated where the user experience is bad. I mean, we've all been there where you try to run a data center and you got bogged down with all of the details simply because the products that you use are not integrated. Um, so I think, you know, from, from any tannics perspective, making sure that everything's integrated and worked well with all of the other products in a portfolio, that's going to be the big challenge for the next year. You know, Nicola, we had Dera John this morning and he talked about those experiences. You know, customers shouldn't have >>Oh my gosh. You know, I looked on the slide and there's 30 different Nutanix products and I can't even spell all of them. Um, you know, uh, so, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, you know, integrating frame through and making sure a desktop just becomes a, you know, a piece of that experience. The big switch for us as being thinking about solutions, not products for that same reason because there's so many products right now in a portfolio and end user computing or VDI has been one of the key solutions that we are focusing on in the next 12 and 24 mods. So would, that really means is that all the products are designed to work seamlessly. So it starts with your, um, hyper-converged, um, widths, um, Citrix as a broker, horizon as a broker, a frame as a broker, but it extends way beyond that. >>So talking about files, you obviously need your enterprise file server that is very, very seamlessly integrated with the end user computing solution. Same goes for flow. You can now have boundaries of who can access VMs or now we have identity based micro segmentation. Um, and then, uh, things like beam where you can seamlessly again have one-click integration and now how much is something costing you right now and how much the same workload would cost you if you ran it on prem or in a different cloud. So I think all of these things are designed to work seamlessly and we spend a ton of time, I mean literally a ton of time to get together with all the teams and to make sure that that user experience is as seamless as possible. >>So I want to go deeper into your past when at the age of 22, you helped lead a revolution that overthrew Slobodan Milosevic. I want to know the lessons that you learned as a revolutionary and how and how you apply them to the technology industry today. I mean because there is a lot of, you know, move fast and break, which is what you were doing then. Yeah. >>Now also like, ah, I, I spoke to a group of executive last night and mentioned, um, uh, those times in the 90s. I grew up in Serbia where the rest of the world was going for dotcom. Boom. We were dealing with, um, um, basically Yugoslavia breaking apart and in 96, from, um, um, pretty anonymous student in the, in a crowds after Milosevic's stolen election, um, I became the leader of what was a very, uh, uh, natural, but also very attentive, um, movement. Uh, within four weeks I was sitting with him just like this, negotiating and negotiating with about a hundred thousand people yelling and screaming under his window, and he had to, um, reverse the results of his election fraud. It took another couple of years. Then we got rid of him. The lesson that I learned at a very young age and just, you know, things just happen was that if you do things in an authentic way, if you speak with conviction ed the right time, you know, there, there are no things that you can do. >>And that was probably the revolutionary spirit that Newtanics shares when I met Dhiraj that, uh, you know, everything's possible that incumbencies not are insurmountable. And that's what led me to move to the U S um, go to my grad school, get BHD start gobbling companies. And looking back, I'm in my mid forties right now. It's pretty crazy to looking at the odds and they'll, what it takes to build a company, make it successful and how risky that is. Just going through some of these experiences when I was in my early twenties, certainly helped me. And, um, I think we'll live in the day and age where the risk is probably overestimated and that we should probably all take more risk. Uh, in modern day and age, the gain is potentially very large and the risk is relatively small. >>Those are that, that's great. But then the timing is everything too >>thing. And I know there was, um, a fall of two 96 20 cup, 20 something years ago. And I remember, um, you know, the biggest lesson that I've learned, if we've done exactly the same thing and we've done it 10 times better six months before or six months after, it wouldn't happen. It was really the right moment and the right wave of underlying energy that if you serve that way the right way, you can move mountains. But it's really important to have a krill clear message to do it with conviction and to do it the right time. >>Right. So it's a little bit of luck, but then also the willingness to take a risk. Absolutely. Excellent. Well, thank you so much. You've and Nicola. Thank you. It was a pleasure talking to you both. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more coming up tomorrow from nutanix.next.

>> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix dot next. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight co-hosting along with Stu Miniman. We're joined by Christo du Raan, he is the COO IT Hardware and Infrastructure at Trustco Holdings. Thanks so much for coming on theCube. >> All right, thanks. And thanks for having me. >> Direct from Namibia. So we keep hearing there are customers from 50 countries. And you represent Namibia here. >> Yeah I come from far down in Africa. (laughs) >> So tell our viewers a little bit about Trustco, what you do down there? >> Trustco's a financial services company firstly, we look after all our Namibian customers in the insurance industry, as well as in the banking industry. We've been busy building our banking industry now for the last five years. And we're almost to that point where we can start serving people. Then we've got also educational services that we give to our customers and we've got roughly about 15,000 students, all doing distance learning, and of that 15,000 we've got about 80 to 90 percent of them that we also do finance, not just for the course material but also the technology, that we finance for them, so to give them the capabilities to do their studies through us. Then we've got also natural resources, it's quite a new business unit for us, where we dabble a little in diamond mining, we've got two mines currently, one in Namibia itself, where we produce probably one of the best diamonds in the world, clear cut diamonds, and then also in Sierra Leone we've recently acquired a mining license there as well. Then in Namibia, the other stuff that we do is in Shared Services, where we have our own radio station that we broadcast in Namibia, and then we do a little bit of in-house marketing and media and those type of things. >> Just a few things! >> Well luckily Christo, your IT staff, they have it easy, they don't have, you know, I walk through the Expo floor, it's like oh well how many verticals do you need to go to all of them, to be able to learn what you're doing. So give us if you can just, a little bit of a snapshot of your IT environment, what your team's responsible for, and if you can, kind of bring us even back before you began the journey onto Nutanix. >> So we're very centralized in Namibia, all our stuff gets run out of one data center, or one common area in our area offices, and then we expand to the six branches out in Namibia and in South Africa and now of late we'll be in Sierra Leone. IT team pretty much look after everything, we've got a saying at the office, "If it's got a plug on, it's IT's problem". (laughing) So yeah, so we do everything from the infrastructure, the networking, the servers, the storage, well, now it's Nutanix, everything is already built into one solution, so that the spurred systems have now fallen away, and we only look after it. >> Bring us back to that move to Nutanix, was there an upgrade that you were looking to do? Was there a pain point? What was the impetus to look at Nutanix? >> So our business has expanded quite quickly and the old way of doing things, with the separate SANs, separate switches, separate servers, those type of things became a little bit slumbersome, and difficult to manage because you had to have all these different kind of vendors that's got specific software solutions and specific training that you have to do and it just became a little bit too much for us and we decided that, let's step back a little bit, and see if there's any solutions out there that makes it firstly easier, that we can manage with less people and do more and at that stage hyperconvergence was just on the peak of becoming a thing, if you want to call it that, and we had done our research and found that Nutanix at that stage was the best fit for us and also the most mature in the hyperconverged space. So, that's basically where we got to the Nutanix solution, obviously like everyone else, we started with a Community Edition, dabbled our hand a little bit in there, and saw that's actually doable, it's easy and something that we can build on. >> So, you've been with them for about two years now, so still a relatively new relationship but talk about the beginning in particular and relationships are hard. Every relationship is hard. There are inevitable stumbling blocks. What were some of the challenges you faced and how did you work with Nutanix to overcome them? >> Challenges, I can say, luckily we haven't had a lot of them. Our business is not nearly as big as the Europeans and the Americans, so it is not that complex a system. We had our challenges in the beginning, hypervisor specifically, 'cause we made a huge move, we went totally 180 degrees from our Hyper-V environment, we said we going to go right over to AHV, don't want to do deal licensing, let's just jump in on AHV and go Nutanix fully. So, obviously we had a few challenges with a couple of our services and servers. But other than that, I must say, it was actually a pretty easy move for us. >> It's interesting that you say going from Hyper-V 'cause I've talked to the customers, oh there's a saving from moving from VMware, oh Microsoft, Hyper-V's all included, if you're doing Windows and you've got Hyper-V, I'm sure you've got a Windows application, so was there an application change or what was the driver to move? >> There were some of our applications that were very specific, especially on the network drivers side of things, moving from the normal Windows drivers, to the IO drivers in Linux. We had a couple of challenges with our in-house apps as well, but again, it was a reasonably painless move over to Nutanix. >> One of things we keep hearing about at this conference is how Nutanix is evolving as customer needs and demands are changing. You gave us the overview of your company, you are getting into new businesses and still continuing in established businesses, what are some of the needs that your IT is experiencing and how is Nutanix meeting those needs? >> Like I say, in the old infrastructure days, provisioning was probably the biggest hurdle, if the Dev guys wanted stuff, you first had to go and buy some more hardware, because you need to adapt to them. When we reversed over to Hyper-V eventually, it became easier, but it was still not the right fit. You still had to tweak it and play with it etc etc. So, the biggest challenge was to get our DevOp guys quicker access to what they need. And then also our customers as well. We've moved from where there's a person that needed to provision storage, needed to provision networking, needed to provision server and VMs, that's now all basically done by one person and most of those things we've already automized, so it is five, ten minutes, and then they've got what they need. I think it made us a little bit more agile because we pride ourselves on being quick thinkers, deploying stuff fast and that was always Trustco's main advantage in the Namibian market, we didn't go through all the other rigamarole that other companies have of tendering and doing things in a certain way and by the time that you get there it's not relevant anymore, now we need to do something else again. That brought us quick to market and made it so that we can deliver quicker solutions to our customers. >> So, Christo, was there any impact organizationally for rolling out Nutanix, you mentioned DevOps there, the goal of course is that they shouldn't have to worry about the infrastructure and hopefully Nutanix is delivering that, but there's some retraining or moving inside the organization, what's the impact been on your organization? >> On the customer side, none. They don't even know we've moved over. >> But from the IT side? >> From our customer side, they've not seen anything. From the IT side of things, we had a phased approach, so we started off with the Community Edition, where we basically just dabbled in it, saw what we could do on it and then also, let's call it training for the IT guys, so that they're comfortable in how the product works. So by the time that we got to deploying it in production, it was actually a very smooth transaction. We had all the kinks sorted out beforehand and made sure that everything will work, again, being in the finance industry, in the banking industry, downtime is an absolute no no, and we wanted to get to a point where we say we're not going to move over production sites, production environments, in the evenings from twelve to four in the morning because we've all got families so we'll either plan it properly ahead of time and yes we did it and actually, dare I say, in production time, we moved across almost seamlessly. We've got a lot of redundancies built in obviously so it gave us the opportunity to actually move in place if you want to call it that. >> So what does the future hold for this relationship? Where do you see your partnership with Nutanix evolving and where do you think you'll be, say, five years from now? >> So, we've got a roadmap set out with Nutanix and where we're now only in the baby phase, where we've done the infrastructure, we're happy everything is working, so now we're in the POC stage of exploring the software suite in its entirety. We've started now with Leap and Bolt ADR scenario and tested it extensively and we're now in that process, probably when I get back in Namibia, we'll have the licenses hopefully to start deploying it in our production environment. More closer to the future, in the next I would say, six to nine months, we're going to take on Frame, 'cause part of our business scenario, because we were Microsoft, was the Remote Desktop Service, and that was what kept us so lean. There are some challenges now with Remote Desktop Services where our Dev guys are moving into some Linux and there's different things coming up now where we move away from the traditional monolithic applications to more agile applications and then we'll start dabbling our hands in Frame. For us the holdback was when Frame came out, that it was only in the cloud and for us in Namibia, Africa, the internet is not as stable as we would like, so that was totally off the cards for us. Now that it moved back into on-prem and we can run Frame on-prem, that will probably be our biggest project going forward for the next year and year and a half. >> Excellent. Well thank you so much for coming on theCube Christo. It was a pleasure talking to you. >> Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, stay tuned for more of theCube's live coverage of dot next. [Urgent Music]

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 you by Nutanix. Hello everybody and welcome back to the cubes live coverage of Nutanix dot. Next here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, co-hosting alongside Stu Miniman. We're joined by Ken ring doll. He is the vice president global Alliance architecture at V. thank you so much for coming on the cube. It is your sixth time on the cube. So you are an illustrious I know. And then a ring and then a ring for is 10. We've got some sticks. Yeah, here you go. So you're here to talk about the partnership with Nutanix and, and uh, and, and mine. So why don't you tell us a little bit about this partnership and the mine ecosystem and, and how would what you see for the future? >>Yeah, absolutely. So a, you know, Nutanix is a really strategic partner for us. Uh, you know, I'd say we've been partners for quite awhile, probably five, six years. But I would say the, the real sort of tipping point for our partnership was when we committed to go integrate with HV. You know, we had supported vSphere from the beginning. That's, that's what VM was founded on. That's where the foundation of our success, we went and did hyper V and 2011 and we didn't do another hypervisor. We still haven't even done KVM yet, but we saw the value in the Nutanix partnership and we committed to doing HV and delivered that, you know, middle of last year. And we've seen, you know, good pickup on that. But that was really the tipping point when we sort of came in and sort of wrapped our arms around the Nutanix ecosystem. And really, you know, if you want to embrace Nutanix, you're in praise HV cause that's the core, right? That's, that's where they're going. That's their differentiation. Um, and so that was, that was sort of the tipping point. And of course, you know, we can certainly get into mine and everything else we're doing. >>That was, well Ken, first of all, it definitely was, you know, very much noticed in the industry. Uh, you know, Veeam, I remember back when hyper V support was announced and kind of a ripple went through the virtualization, uh, industry on that and Veem stepping forward and supporting HV was a, a real, uh, you know, speaking to not only the partnership but to the maturity of where Nutanix sits out there. Um, we know that the data protection space is quite hot and a question people have had from day one was, well, we'll Nutanix address that directly themselves. Uh, they had Veem rubrics here, you know, other partners are here. So it's how they are addressing that space and mine, uh, that, that is pretty interesting in different from, uh, you know, much of what we see out there. So, uh, bring us inside mine and you know, uh, Nutanix, it wants optionality to be there. So Veem is one of the partners, but also the, you know, uh, likely the most important first one. Uh, there. >>Yeah. So you know, this, there's a lot of similarities between Nutanix and Veem, especially when it comes to the general approach to partners. You know, where we're a software defined, uh, data protection platform. Nutanix, you're right hat an option, Hey, maybe we go build this ourself or we acquire and try to get that revenue, maybe the data protection revenue. And they've decided to partner just like we've decided to partner, you know, for secondary storage and everything else. And that, that really does lead us to mind because you know, a lot of our competitors do ship their software on white box hardware. Uh, some of the emerging startups are doing that and even some of the legacy players are all, you know, whether it's a Supermicro box and Intel box, we've taken a different approach and said, Hey look, you know, we, we, we know what we're good at and we know we want customer choice. >>And even, you know, Dheeraj and others at the keynote today talked about no vendor lock in. We're where we are. We have very similar approaches. And so, you know, we got together over a year ago, year and a half ago and said, Hey, look, you know, as Veem in a, we, we see some customers that are now asking for their data protection. You know, VM was founded on being simple and easy and there's even ways to take that to another level like mine, which is, Hey look, we want to now even simplify the day zero one the zero experience that even into the day one day two ops in terms of an integrated UI and other ways to to bring, you know, the infrastructure together with your data protection. And so it made perfect sense. We got together and it was like boom, a light bulb went off. We got on a whiteboard and we're like, yeah, we can do this. >>Like, you know, it's going to require joint development. And we've sort of made those commitments on both sides and it's been well received now. It's not in the market yet. It will be soon. Um, but the customer feedback has been incredible. We've done this very successful beta, we've got lots and lots of pent up customer demand. So it's like the sales teams are now saying, Hey, when can we, have you been talking about it for a while? When can we have this? Because we have customers ready to buy. So where we're there now that we're ready to bring this to market and excited about the opportunity together. >>So talk a little bit about the, the ins of that partnership. And you were just describing your ethos, which is making everything simple and easy, which is what we're hearing a lot here today. A. Dot. Next. So does that just mean that you attract the same kinds of employees, so then therefore they work well together in the sandbox? I mean, how would you describe the, the cultures coming together in this joint development process? >>Yeah, I think we're, we're similar companies, right? We're a similar size. We're a similar age. We're similar, you know, just, just all around, you know, our, our culture of innovation. So, you know, when we got together it was, it was pretty simple. Now, now doing development as two companies together is always hard. It's never easy. It's even hard to do it when it's one company on your own, right. And get a, get a product to market. Um, so I'd be lying if I said that weren't bumps along the way. There always are. Uh, but you know, we've, we've, we've worked through and we've, you know, we're, we're now, like I said at that point, and I think our, our, just our similarities and our cultures and really we have alignment at the executive level. And that's important, right. To, to get things done because, you know, well, well, you know, all of us that are sort of working on this thing, maybe a level or two, but when executive leadership is aligned, that's when things get done. And we have that between Nutanix and beam. >>Yeah. And Ken did the messaging that I'm hearing from Nutanix now reminds me of what I was hearing a couple of years ago from Veem specifically when you talk to cloud, uh, so a couple of years ago very much, I saw Microsoft up on stage, you know, living with AWS. What are you hearing from your customers and you know, do you see those parallel journeys or will the AHV integration mean that as Nutanix goes along that journey that Newtanics offerings will be able to live in these multiple cloud environments sometime too? >>Yeah. So I think a little bit of both, right? I think, I think the definitely be able to live out there. I mean, you know, you see VM-ware now wrapping their arms around all the hyperscale public cloud vendors. I mean, we heard about XY clusters and that was announced in Anaheim and we saw a demo of it today. And, and, and, you know, our goal is to support those workloads wherever they are. You know, we've, as I said before, we, we sorta made, made our hay and we were founded on attaching the vSphere then hyper V than HV and now AWS and Azure and all these other environments. And really, you know, the roots of it, we, we follow our customers along their journey, right? So, you know, this customers today that, that, you know, maybe smaller, newer companies that go straight to AWS, straight to Azure, they're born in the cloud and they're cloud only. >>You know, they may not be the best fit for Vien maybe a couple of years from now. Uh, they, they may just buy point solutions for the customers, the larger customers that have hybrid environments. That's what we're looking to attack. And you know, whether that's with Nutanix and VMware and those workloads that go, we, we want to make sure we attach here and give our customers the best experience and the ability to burst to the cloud and move around and workload portability, you know, we built features into the product. We've changed our, revolutionized our licensing to make that easier. So, so that's what we're after is is those hybrid customers solving those problems and those challenges they haven't building on our strength, which starts on prem but has moved into the cloud and, and, and spread quite a bit. Yeah. >>What do you see as some of the trends on the horizon? I mean, as you said, you just described your dream customer, which there, there's, there's a few of them out there so you'll be okay. So talk about some of the, the problems that you, that are keeping them up at night and how your solution solves them. >>You know, when it comes to data protection it, you know, everyone can say, Hey, my backups, they were 100% successful. It comes down to restore and reliability. And security, right? And we, you know, we've, we've built a lot into our product to give customers the peace of mind that, Hey, you know, when that call comes at at 11 o'clock at night and I need to recover assistant cause it's down, you know, we need to have hundred percent confidence that that will be there. And oftentimes when, you know, when we're converting customers over from maybe a competitor's product, that's what we hear the most is, is Hey, you know, it's the reliability and the confidence in the infrastructure and that's what we focus on most. And so, you know, we hear that a lot from customers and, and that's really where our focus is. We've got feet, as I said, features built into the product. >>You know, that, that that goes straight after that can, we've watched Newtanics really increased the breadth of what they're offering through through their software. Uh, they've been talking a lot. Files is one of the, you know, strong growth areas. There. Objects is another one that I, I expect would have some interaction with your environment. What are you hearing from customers? Where is Veeam moving with the HP support for some of these other solutions that Nutanix has? Yeah, so, so we've got a very big release coming, you know, in the next call it few months, quarter or so. Um, that is called V 10. You know, and if you guys read Vema on a couple of years ago, we've talked about V 10 and that was a number of features in there. NAS is a big one for us. Um, and it's one that that is probably the most asked for feature that we currently don't have. >>And so having support for files and we've already tested with the beta, you know, we know when we come out with that in a GA form that we're going to be successful with, with files. Uh, object storage is another one that was also part of the V tenet umbrella when we announced it, you know, while ago. Um, and it's been hugely successful for us. It's revolutionized, kind of the way that our customers look at longterm storage is, is, Hey, I can, I can move that to AWSs three or Azure blob or, you know, cloudy in or Swift stack or something else on pram or Nutanix objects. Um, you know, because again, customer choice, but, but we've, you know, we've embraced that because that's where customers are going. She asks, you know, what a customer that, that's, that's where, that's where they're going. They, they, they say, Hey, I want, you know, a lot of them want to get rid of tape, you know, and, and what's the best way to get in this is features of tape in object storage, right? There's object lock and ways to do, you know, uh, write once, read, read many times. So we're, you know, we look at object storage a little bit as, as the next generation of tape. Now it's, you know, it's not exactly that. There's lots of different use cases, but, but for us and for our customers, they're looking, they're looking to, to do the next generation data center. And that includes having object storage is a longterm tier. Uh, you know, for cost reasons, for manageability reasons, you know, of the light. >>Can you talk a little bit about the partner ecosystem and the evolution of it and particularly because the technology industry is, is changing so fast and you, you, you started this conversation by talking about how much your culture is aligned with Nutanix culture. How do you see, with, with these fast changing companies, fast changing technologies, how do you see five, 10 years from now, what will the technology landscape look like? >>Yeah, certainly. I mean obviously the, the push to cloud, that's big, right? Where we're making a lot of, a lot of changes on our site, where, where we're bringing out new products or bringing out new features that specifically take you to cloud. Um, you know, we, we were on with you guys at, at world and, and you know, there was, you know, project Tansu and all this other stuff about Cuba and it was, it was, that was the Coobernetti's conference. Right. And, and, uh, you know, I said earlier, you know, we want to move along at the pace that our customers want to go. So, you know, those, those sort of born in the cloud companies are going straight to Kubernetes, but we're moving along with our customers when it comes to Kubernetes and containers. So, so yeah, we're, we're paying attention to it. Do we have a product that can support every bit of, you know, Kubernetes and containers yet? >>No, but, but we're, you know, there's these things that we're working on and you know, in, in the way that Veem usually develops software, we're not usually first, but we usually come out with something that is rock solid, ready to go, customer ready. We have 355,000 customers we can't afford to and, and, and we're the stewards of their data. Uh, so when we come out with something yet, we may take slightly longer to do it, but you can be sure that it's rock solid, stable, robust, and that's, you know, that's our general approach. And so when you ask, you know, where our customers going, you know, they're definitely going to the cloud, they're going to Kubernetes, they're, you know, all these, all these new technologies, and, and, and, and we sort of like step back and we ask our customers, Hey, are you doing this? You know, what's your plan for this? Is it two years? Is it one year? Is it five years? Um, and we adjust accordingly. >>Yeah. Uh, can anything particular for your European customers that, that, that you can share? >>Yeah, I think, you know, when you think European customers and uniqueness from the rest of the world, I mean, you start with GDPR, right? That that was, you know, a huge thing that went into effect a year ago. Um, and we've, you know, we've, we've done things there, but they're, they're, they're very sensitive to, you know, that and, and being able to, you know, provide that capability for their customers. So, so I'd, I'd put that at the top of the list. I mean, cloud is a big one. You know, I think as we look at the hyperscalers in particular, AWS and Azure, you know, the U S is a big country. You don't need a lot of data centers to cover the country. But now you look at GDPR and some things need to stay in the, in the envelope of a, of a country. And Hey, this, you know, lots of countries in Europe and, and, and so more and more data centers. So the support of those public cloud vendors and the, the sprawl of, of the date and the sprawl of the data centers is, is really important. So having that coverage and being able to provide customer choice is incredibly important to European customers. >>Well, Ken, thank you so much for coming back on the cube. We always have a fun time talking to you. Right. Thank you. Next time I'll be here. Seventh, I'm Rebecca night for Stu Miniman. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of Nutanix. Dot. Next.