>>We're here live in Las Vegas with a cubes coverage of Amazon re Mars. It's a reinvent re Mars reinforced. The big three shows called the res. This is Mars machine learning, automation, robotic and space. It's a program about the future it and the future innovation around industrial cloud scale climate change the moon, a lot of great topics, really connecting all the dots together here in Las Vegas with Amazon re Mars I'm John ER, host of the cube. Our first guest is Howard Hughes program manager, necess Ryan program. Howard is involved with all the action and space and the moon project, which we'll get into Howard. Thanks for coming on the cube. >>Well, Hey, thanks for having me here this morning. Appreciate you guys inviting me here. >>So this show is not obvious to the normal tech observer, the insiders in, in the industry. It's the confluence of a lot of things coming together. It's gonna be obvious very soon because the stuff they're showing here is pretty impressive. It's motivating, it's positive and it's a force for change in good. All of it coming together, space, machine learning, robotics, industrial, you have one of the coolest areas, the space what's going on with your Orion program. You guys got the big moon project statement to >>Explain. Well, let me tell you, I'll start with Orion. Orion is our next human space craft. That's gonna take humans beyond low earth orbit and we're part of the broader Artis campaign. So Artis is our plan, our NASA plan to return the first person of color, first woman, back to the moon. And we're very excited to do that. We have several missions that I could talk to you about starting with in a very few months, Artis one. So Artis one is going to fly on the space launch system, which is gonna be the biggest rocket we call the mega rocket has been built since the Saturn five on top of the SLS is the Ryan spacecraft and that Ryan spacecraft houses four crew members for up to 21 days in deep space. And we'll have an unru test in a few months launch on the S SLS. And Orion's gonna go around the moon for up to 40 days on Aus two, we will have the first test of the humans on board Orion. So four people will fly on Aus two. We will also circle the moon for about 10 to 12 days. And then our third mission will be our landing. >>So the moon is back in play, obviously it's close to the earth. So it's a short flight, relatively speaking the Mars a little bit further out. I'll see everyone as know what's going on in Mars. A lot of people are interested in Mars. Moon's closer. Yes, but there's also new things going on around discovery. Can you share the big story around why the moon what's? Why is the moon so important and why is everyone so excited about it? >>Yeah. You, you know, you know, coming to this conference and talking about sustainability, you know, I mean it is exploration is I think ingrained in our DNA, but it's more than just exploration is about, you know, projecting human presence beyond our earth. And these are the stepping stones. You know, we talk about Amazon talked about day one, and I think about, we are on those very early days where we're building the infrastructure Ryans of transportation infrastructure, and we're gonna build infrastructure on the moon to learn how to live on a surface and how to utilize the assets. And then that's very important because you know, it's very expensive to carry fuel, to carry water and all the necessities that you need to survive as a human being and outer space. If you can generate that on the surface or on the planet you go to, and this is a perfect way to do it because it's very in your backyard, as I told you earlier. So for future mission, when you want to go to Mars, you're nine months out, you really wanna make sure you have the technologies and you're able to utilize those technologies robustly and in a sustainable way. >>Yeah, we were talking before you came on, came camera camping in your backyard is a good practice round. Before you go out into the, to the wilderness, this is kind of what's going on here, but there's also the discovery angle. I mean, I just see so much science going on there. So if you can get to the moon, get a base camp there, get set up, then things could come out of that. What are some of the things that you guys are talking about that you see as possible exploration upside? >>Yeah. Well, several things. One is power generation recently. We just released some contracts that from vision power, so long, sustainable power capability is very, very important. You know, the other technologies that you need utilize is regenerative, you know, air, water, things that are, you need for that, but then there's a science aspect of it, which is, you know, we're going to the south pole where we think there's a lot of water potentially, or, or available water that we can extract and utilize that to generate fuel. So liquid hydrogen liquid oxygen is one of the areas that are very interesting. And of course, lunar minerals are very exciting, very interesting to bring and, and, and be able to mine potentially in the future, depending on what is there. >>Well, a lot of cool stuff happening. What's your take on this show here, obviously NASA's reputation as innovators and deep technologists, you know, big moonshot missions, pun intended here. You got a lot of other explorations. What's this show bring together, share your perspective because I think the story here to me is you got walkout retail, like the Amazon technology, you got Watson dynamics, the dog, everyone loves that's walking on. Then you got supply chain, robotics, machine learning, and space. It all points to one thing, innovation around industrial. I think what, what, what's your, what's your, what's your take? >>You know, I think one of the things is, is, you know, normally we are innovating in a, in our aerospace industry. You know, I think there's so much to learn from innovation across all these areas you described and trying to pull some of that into the spacecraft. You know, when, when you're a human being sitting in spacecraft is more than just flying the spacecraft. You know, you have interaction with displays, you have a lot of technologies that you normally would want to interact with on the ground that you could apply in space to help you and make your tasks easier. And I think those are things that are really important as we look across, you know, the whole entire innovative infrastructure that I see here in this show, how can we extract some that and apply it in the space program? I think there is a very significant leveraging that you could do off of that. >>What are some of the look at what's going on in donors? What are some of the cool people who aren't following the day to day? Anything? >>Well, well, certainly, you know, the Artman's mission Artis campaign is one of the, the, the coolest things I could think of. That's why I came into, you know, I think wrapping around that where we are not only just going to a destination, but we're exploring, and we're trying to establish a very clear, long term presence that will allow us to engage. What I think is the next step, which is science, you know, and science and the, and the things that can, can come out of that in terms of scientific discoveries. And I think the cool, coolest thing would be, Hey, could we take the things that we are in the labs and the innovation relative to power generation, relative to energy development of energy technologies, robotics, to utilize, to help explore the surface. And of course the science that comes out of just naturally, when you go somewhere, you don't know what to expect. And I think that's what the exciting thing. And for NASA, we're putting a program, an infrastructure around that. I think that's really exciting. Of course, the other parts of NASA is science. Yeah. And so the partnering those two pieces together to accomplish a very important mission for everybody on planet earth is, is really important. >>And also it's a curiosity. People are being curious about what's going on now in space, cuz the costs are down and you got universities here and you got the, of robotics and industrial. This is gonna provide a, a new ground for education, younger, younger generation coming up. What would you share to teachers and potential students, people who wanna learn what's different about now than the old generation and what's the same, what what's the same and what's new. What's how does someone get their arms around this, their mind around it? Where can they jump in? This is gonna open up the aperture for, for, for talent. I mean with all the technology, it's not one dimensional. >>Yeah. I think what is still true is core sciences, math, you know, engineering, the hard science, chemistry, biology. I mean, I think those are really also very important, but what we're we're getting today is the amount of collaboration we're able to do against organically. And I think the innovation that's driven by a lot of this collaboration where you have these tools and your ability to engage and then you're able to, to get, I would say the best out of people in lots of different areas. And that's what I think one of the things we're learning at NASA is, you know, we have a broad spectrum of people that come to work for us and we're pulling that. And now we're coming to these kinds of things where we're kind getting even more innovation ideas and partnerships so that we are not just off on our own thinking about the problem we're branching out and allowing a lot of other people to help us solve the problems that >>We need. You know, I've noticed with space force too. I had the same kind of conversations around those with those guys as well. Collaboration and public private partnerships are huge. You've seen a lot more kind of cross pollination of funding, col technology software. I mean, how do you do break, fix and space at software, right? So you gotta have, I mean, it's gotta work. So you got security challenges. Yeah. This is a new frontier. It is the cybersecurity, the usability, the operationalizing for humans, not just, you know, put atypical, you know, scientists and, and, and astronauts who are, you know, in peak shape, we're talking about humans. Yeah. What's the big problem to solve? Is it security? Is it, what, what would you say the big challenges >>Are? Yeah. You know, I think information and access to information and how we interact with information is probably our biggest challenge because we have very limited space in terms of not only mass, but just volume. Yeah. You know, you want to reserve the space for the people and they, they need to, you know, you want maximize your space that you're having in spacecraft. And so I think having access to information, being able to, to utilize information and quickly access systems so you can solve problems cuz you don't know when you're in deep space, you're several months out to Mars, what problems you might encounter and what kind of systems and access to information you need to help you solve the problems. You know, both, both, both from a just unplanned kind of contingencies or even planned contingencies where you wanna make sure you have that information to do it. So information is gonna be very vital as we go out into deep >>Space and the infrastructure's changed. How has the infrastructure changed in terms of support services? I mean see, in the United States, just the growth of a aerospace you mentioned earlier is, is just phenomenal. You've got smaller, faster, cheaper equipment density, it solved the technology. Where's there gonna be the, the big game changing move movement. Where do you see it go? Is it AIST three? It kind of kicks in AIST ones, obviously the first one unmanned one. But where do in your mind, do you see key milestones that are gonna be super important to >>Watch? I think, I think, I think, you know, we've already, you know, pushed the boundaries of what we, we are, you know, in terms of applying our aerospace technologies for AIST one and certainly two, we've got those in, in work already. And so we've got that those vehicles already in work and built yeah. One already at the, at the Kennedy space center ready for launch, but starting with three because you have a lot more interaction, you gotta take the crew down with a Lander, a human landing system. You gotta build rovers. You've gotta build a, a capability which they could explore. So starting with three and then four we're building the gateway gateways orbiting platform around the moon. So for all future missions after Rist three, we're gonna take Aion to the gateway. The crew gets into the orbiting platform. They get on a human landing system and they go down. >>So all that interaction, all that infrastructure and all the support equipment you need, not only in the orbit of the moon, but also down the ground is gonna drive a lot of innovation. You're gonna have to realize, oh, Hey, I needed this. Now I need to figure out how to get something there. You know? And, and how much of the robotics and how much AI you need will be very interesting because you'll need these assistance to help you do your daily routine or lessen your daily routine. So you can focus on the science and you can focus on doing the advancing those technologies that you're gonna >>Need. And you gotta have the infrastructure. It's like a road. Yeah. You know, you wanna go pop down to the moon, you just pop down, it's already built. It's ready for you. Yep. Come back up. So just ease of use from a deployment standpoint is, >>And, and the infrastructure, the things that you're gonna need, you know, what is a have gonna look like? What are you gonna need in a habitat? You know, are, are you gonna be able to have the power that you're gonna have? How many station power stations are you gonna need? Right. So all these things are gonna be really, things are gonna be driven by what you need to do the mission. And that drives, I think a lot of innovation, you know, it's very much like the end goal. What are you trying to solve? And then you go, okay, here's what I need to solve to build things, to solve that >>Problem. There's so many things involved in the mission. I can imagine. Safety's huge. Number one, gotta be up safe. Yep. Space is dangerous game. Yes. Yeah. It's not pleasant there. Not for the faint of heart. As you say, >>It's not for the faint >>Heart. That's correct. What's the big safety concerns obviously besides blowing up and oxygen and water and the basic needs. >>I think, I think, you know, I think you, you said it very well, you know, it is not for the faint of heart. We try to minimize risk. You know, asset is one of the big, you're sitting under 8.8 million pounds of thrust on the launch vehicle. So it is going very fast and you're flying and you, and, and it's it's light cuz we got solid rocket motors too as well. Once they're lit. They're lit. Yeah. So we have a escape system on Orion that allows a crew to be safe. And of course we build in redundancy. That's the other thing I think that will drive innovation. You know, you build redundancy in the system, but you also think about the kind of issues that you would run into potentially from a safety perspective, you know, how you gonna get outta situation if you get hit by a meteor, right? Right. You, you, you are going through the band, Ellen belt, you have radiation. So you know, some of these things that are harsh on your vehicle and on, on the human side of this shop too. And so when you have to do these things, you have to think about what are you gonna protect for and how do you go protect for that? And we have to find innovations for >>That. Yeah. And it's also gonna be a really exciting air for engineering work. And you mentioned the data, data's huge simulations, running scenarios. This is where the AI comes in. And that seems to me where the dots connect from me when you start thinking about how to have, how to run those simulations, to identify what's possible. >>I think that's a great point, you know, because we have all this computing capability and because we can run simulations and because we can collect data, we have terabytes of data, but it's very challenging for humans to analyze at that level. So AI is one of the things we're looking at, which is trying to systematically have a process by which data is called through so that the engineering mind is only looking at the things and focus on things that are problematic. So we repeat tests, every flight, you don't have to look at all the terabytes of data of each test. You have a computer AI do that. And you allow yourself to look at just the pieces that don't look right, have anomalies in the data. Then you're going to do that digging, right. That's where the power of those kinds of technologies can really help us because we have that capability to do a lot of computing. >>And I think that's why this show to me is important because it, it, it shows for the first time, at least from my coverage of the industry where technology's not the bottleneck anymore, it's human mind. And we wanna live in a peaceful world with climate. We wanna have the earth around for a while. So climate change was a huge topic yesterday and how the force for good, what could come outta the moon shots is to, is to help for earth. >>Yeah. >>Yeah. Better understanding there all good. What's your take on the show. If you had to summarize this show, re Mars from the NASA perspective. So you, the essence space, what's the what's going on here? What's the big, big story. >>Yeah. For, for me, I think it's eyeopening in terms of how much innovation is happening across a spectrum of areas. And I look at various things like bossy, scientific robots that the dog that's walking around. I mean to think, you know, people are applying it in different ways and then those applications in a lot of ways are very similar to what we need for exploration going forward. And how do you apply some of these technologies to the space program and how do we leverage that? How do we leverage that innovation and how we take the innovations already happening organically for other reasons and how would those help us solve those problems that we're gonna encounter going forward as we try to live on another planet? >>Well, congratulations on a great assignment. You got a great job. I do super fun. I love being an observer and I love space. Love how at the innovations there. And plus space space is cool. I mean, how many millions of live views do you see? Everyone's stopping work to watch SpaceX land and NASA do their work. It's just, it's bringing back the tech vibe. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's just, things are going you a good tailwind. Yeah. >>Congratulations. Thank you very much. >>Appreciate it on the, okay. This cube coverage. I'm John fur. You're here for the cube here. Live in Las Vegas back at reinvent reinforce re Mars, the reser coverage here at re Mars. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, with Dave Vellante at UI path forward for, we have had it all today. Lots of great guests. We've had weather, we've had rain. We are outside and lots of great conversations going on. Next up, we're going to be talking about automation at healthcare giant. Merck. Joining us from merch is Dan Boyd automation leader, and from CGI partner of UI paths, bill angles, senior automation architect, guys, welcome to the program. >>Thanks for having us. >>So Dan, we'll go ahead and start with you. Let's talk about Merck and the implement and the adoption of automation, such a history company. >>Yeah. Thank you. Um, our journey started about two years ago and started with the small team and has evolved ever since we started just the handful of folks we've evolved, uh, from the size of our team, matured, operationally and expanded our capabilities along that journey to where we are today. And it continues to evolve as the technology changes. And it's been exciting to see the adoption at Merck over, you know, across the enterprise. Um, it's been an educational process, but it's been exciting just to see that understanding of the power that automation can deliver to them. And they see the value in making it real to them has been key. Um, then once it's real and they get excited and the word spreads and they appreciate the value right before their eyes and bill, are you, >>Uh, industry specialized or more automation specialist? >>Yeah. Yeah. So I'm more, uh, automation specialized, but uh, you know, CGI, we partner with our industry experts to identify use cases for automation and I help kind of, you know, solution the best approach to automation. Uh, and you know, so I actually started, you know, with, with Merck a little bit earlier before it was really formalized and, uh, just CGI is a large partner of merch and embedded within various areas of business. And, you know, I, I ended up educating, uh, CGI on automation and here's what to look for, you know, in a, in a, in a great use case for automation and, you know, really, we started to drum up some internal excitement and then came up with some actual real use cases within Merck, proved it out early. And then we began to partner with, uh, Dan and his team. >>Can you share a little bit about some of those use cases? Yes. >>So, you know, the ones that, uh, we've worked on are really specific within, uh, various areas, uh, within the division. So Dan, you want to talk about some of the >>You're working on yeah, I'll share one use case within a specific market of merch, and it's a commercial area where they were embarking on a revision in their customer engaged engagement approach in this market and where the, they had a problem. They, they needed to get the invoices out of SAP for customers. So that was on the one side of the process on the other was a customer portal where the customers needed access near real time to those invoices. So when they came to us, they had the invoices kind of set up to be emailed out of SAP. So they had that process set up. The problem is how do they get them over here into this customer portal? Say the backup plan was to have a temporary workers come on and do that manually handle the open emails with the invoices attachments and get them loaded. >>So we came in, uh, they called us in, in the 11th hour and we were able to, fortunately that the process was straightforward, uh, whereas invoices were coming through, uh, an email attachment and that was set up. So basically we automated the reading of the emails, the processing of the PDF attachments and saved them into a shared drive where there was another process to load them into SAP. So the volume was really large on a daily basis. Initially it was estimated at approximately 2,500 emails per day with these invoices. Um, so that would estimate it would take about 125 hours of people time to do that manually. Um, so that's what we automated. And in the end it was the averages it's over 3000 a day. So, um, the solution really came in and, and we were able to deliver that. And it's been a really, they were, they were static with what they could do, and then they saw the art of the possible with, with this automation. So it's a good success story. And, um, it's exciting to see, and they were thrilled >>And it's not an uncommon story, right. Where you're automating mundane tasks that was pushing a lot of paper, a lot of copy and pasting. Um, do you see how far away, and maybe we're there already? You think about mark it's it's uh, in a, in a unique industry, we've got, got highly skilled scientists too in serious R and D high risk trials. You got partners, you do some organic, some inorganic, you've got the manufacturing components. So a lot of different parts to the business. And when you think about saving time, as you think about some of the, the scientists that are working on various pipeline products, highly paid, if you can save more of their time, wow. That even drops more to the bottom line. Are we at that point yet? We heard the stats this morning. It was 2% or some single digit percentage of our processes are automated. How far away are we from attacking those types of automations? Are we there today? >>Uh, we do automations for all the, all the functions across Merck. Um, in some places adoption is farther along than others in their journey, but yeah, um, from the shop floor and the manufacturing sites, we found opportunities to, to introduce automation there. And even in the, in the labs in various capacities, see the use cases continue to grow and the adoption continue. We see that growing as well. >>Do you find that the, the highly skilled, uh, automations targeted at highly skilled folks are, are harder to sort of get your hands around, but they give you bigger ROI? Or is it not the case? Is it all sort of earn and burn? >>Yeah, from my perspective, I think it's, you know, use case by use case. Like if it's a, a complex use case, it requires, you know, more advanced capabilities, uh, you know, machine learning models, you know, leveraging, uh, you know, AI center within UI path, uh, you know, those they can, you know, provide, you know, fairly sizeable ROI, but I think is for those highly skilled workers, I'll give one example is, you know, out in, out in the labs, we, we helped, you know, automate some things that, you know, just made their life easier, right. Uh, you know, tests running overnight, if something failed, uh, with, with a test that was happening, then, you know, they, they wouldn't know about it and they lose critical data for, for these early tests that they're doing in, in the, in the preclinical cycle. So we actually put in a UI path robots to, to monitor and send alerts and provide recovery to make their lives a lot easier. Uh, so they don't have to worry about things, you know, failing in the middle of the night, you have a UI path robot, you know, supporting them in that map, that aspect, >>What's an automation, architecture look like we, where do we start architecting automation? >>Well, I think the journey, uh, so where do you start with an automation? Right. It's really understanding the use case. It comes down to what is the, the end to end process, and then where, where can we automate, uh, within that process and what is the right set of automation capabilities? So, you know, RPA is great for, you know, um, where we get, where we need to interact with user interfaces. But if we can, uh, you know, interact with API APIs, we would do that. You know, preferably over a UI is, is to keep, keep it more of a seamless integration. But I think it's about understanding the process, laying out the right solution, uh, if there's an opportunity to improve the process prior to automating it, you know, if there's, if there is that ability, then we'll look to do that. And we've done that. We may change that process, uh, up a little bit, just to make automation more efficient, more effective. Uh, and so, and then it just, we built it and we deploy it and they start to realize the value >>Hard. Is it dental prove the, on the versus just automating what's, what's known. In other words, you've got dependencies and there are complexities there w what's your experience in terms of how you approached it >>From my experience and what we found to be best practice and bill touched on it. But every use case is of course different than the, the corresponding process. Very, very varied, but really what's key, I think, is to right upfront, understand the end to end process. And a lot of cases, my team it's new to us, right. But the process owners, they live it every day. So understanding, partnering with them to really understand the end to end solution in the form of like a process map. So you can kind of echo back your understanding of their process and get that nod of the head from them and say, yes, you understand that this is an accurate representation. Then we can with the spirit of trying to get it right the first time. And, but it really, I think is incumbent upon us to really get that in-depth understanding upfront. And a lot of cases, if there's time sensitivity in the end, it's just more efficient and saves a lot of rework. So, >>So working backwards, sorry, at least working backwards from the known existing process and then implementing an automation is probably the best starting point, as opposed to trying to work backwards from some kind of the outcome that you envision. But, but I would think there's attractiveness in the, in the ladder. Right. So that you're not just repeating a process that may be outdated. >>Yeah. So your, uh, it comes down to a couple of things. So when you're initially looking at a process, you know, should we automate this or not? And how complex is it? You need to understand what is the potential benefit. So, you know, how much, uh, you know, how much time am I able to, uh, you know, have those workers reinvest into other areas of work, right. Or what other, what are some other benefits? Uh, you know, there, there may be some, uh, you know, compliance fines that were experienced through automation, we're able to, you know, to make sure we're meeting SLS and so on. Uh, so you is a lot to, you know, defining the benefits, the automation, putting a value to that. And then the process of going through the actual process, understand the complexity, right? And then you can come up with, you know, here's, here's what it's gonna take to build this thing. Here's the potential value. And then we have ways where we track, you know, what's, how has that ROI trending once it's in production? Uh, so we'll be, that gives us more insight. >>Dan, I've got a question for you. One of the conversations that Dave and I had earlier on the program was about automation as a boardroom topic. I'd love to get your perspectives. Merck is a history organization, been around for a long time. Cultural change is incredibly challenging, but I'd love to get your perspective on where is automation at Merck's board. Is that something that is really key to transformation? >>I'd say automation falls under our strategic initiative, just around digital digital transformation, right? So it's a sub pillar of that. So that is a strategic imperative and very important. And just being a more efficient and, and leveraging technology effectively, um, just to make merch more efficient and, and, and optimized and RPA and automation plays a part in that. I mean, >>That's what I suspected Lisa this morning when we have in that conversation, it seems to me that you wouldn't necessarily create an automation stove pipe at the board meeting. You might want to report on how these automations have affected, whether it's the income statement or the health of the company, et cetera. But it seems to me to be a fundamental part of the digital transformation, um, which involves a lot of different things, data and cloud and strategy and it et cetera. So is that pretty >>Common bill? Yeah, I, yes, it is. I mean, when, when an organization is looking to automate there's, you know, various angles are coming out, they're coming from the top-down approach where, you know, management saying, Hey, we need to, we need to automate what's, let's look across all the divisions and, and figure out where, where we should go. But then it's also, you know, bottom up where, you know, folks out in, out within the various lines of business know, they, they know the problems. They know, they know the business processes. So there's a couple of different angles where, you know, you you're able to discover new opportunities to automate. Uh, but those also those smaller ones opened the door to understanding, you know, much larger processes where we can look, you know, automate more of the upstream or downstream in that process. Are there variations of the process? So >>Was, was merch more bottom-up or top-down or middle out? I wouldn't say it's >>Started bottoms up. That's really out there. It came from the top-down. So as bill touched on, I think it's really key that we do have, uh, from, from this coming from the top, from our leadership is endorsing it and advocating it, but also we're on the, on the ground floor and educating. So the people with the hands-on doing the process, they understand it and the word is spreading. They see we've, we've made it real for them. Now it's real for them, and they can appreciate the value. And they're happy to be able to do more, to be freed up from the tedious tasks and do more interesting work. >>So we did start in the department, there was a champion with a budget who said, Hey, I'm going to try this and then look what I got. Yeah, >>Yeah. You definitely need the champion. So part of that is creating champions out in the different business lines to truly own the pipeline and understand the opportunities are out there and say, yeah, this is a good opportunity. This, this one let's look at it later. So you definitely have to have those folks out there that, that understand the technology, but also understand the business. >>How has that changed in the last 18 months with healthcare care undergoing such? I mean, my goodness, the things that have happened in a healthcare organization, how has that accelerated the need for things like automation, Christian, for both of you and for mark as well? Yeah. >>Yeah. So mark initiated, uh, like most companies that digital transformation, three, three plus years ago, and this just became an extension of that. And, and it's, it's a, it's a must, right? Just to stay up with the, the digital transformation and everything that's happening in this world. And, and obviously, uh, COVID accelerated, helped accelerate it in certain areas and made it real for a lot of people and appreciate the value and the need for it. >>Yeah. W within CGI, just across all of our clients, it's automation is really towards the top of the list of strategic priorities. So it's, so we've seen this massive just acceleration of, of needing to automate more and more and more, you know, which is, which is great. >>What's it like inside a merch these days, you guys must be really excited with all that. I mean, I know it's early days and nothing has been fully blessed yet, but I mean, you know, some of the big has got a lot of headlines and obviously, you know, we've been taking jabs, et cetera, but, but now here's Merck in the headlines. It's, it's gotta be an exciting time for you guys. >>Yeah. It's, it's great to be part of a company whose mission is to save and improve lives and right. It's um, with today, it's, it's really becoming real and more relevant, uh, of that mission and vision. So it's exciting. >>There were any gotchas when you go into this, I'm sure there are into this automation journey. What kinds of things would you advise people, Hey, make sure that you deal with these, whether it's an audit scope, consideration or things that you definitely don't want to do, or do you want to do? >>Yeah. It just comes down to the, you know, choosing the right use case to start with. Right. Making sure that you, if you're just starting out in your automation journey, you know, start with those use cases that you can quickly prove value for and then tackle the more complex ones. That's good >>For folks to know where to start, especially when there's still such a tumultuous environment that we're living in. Dan and bill. Thank you for joining Dave and Manet, talking about automation, the innovation that you're doing at Merck partnering with CGI really appreciate >>Your time. Thanks for having us >>For Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin, coming to you from windy, chilly Las Vegas. We are at UI path forward for stick around Dave and I will be right back with our next guest.

(upbeat music) >> The Cloud essentially turned the data center into an API and ushered in the era of programmable infrastructure, no longer do we think about deploying infrastructure in rigid silos with a hardened, outer shell, rather infrastructure has to facilitate digital business strategies. And what this means is putting data at the core of your organization, irrespective of its physical location. It also means infrastructure generally and storage specifically must be accessed as sets of services that can be discovered, deployed, managed, secured, and governed in a DevOps model or OpsDev, if you prefer. Now, this has specific implications as to how vendor product strategies will evolve and how they'll meet modern data requirements. Welcome to this Cube conversation, everybody. This is Dave Vellante. And with me to discuss these sea changes is Ajay Singh, the Chief Product Officer of Pure Storage, Ajay welcome. >> Thank you, David, gald to be on. >> Yeah, great to have you, so let's talk about your role at Pure. I think you're the first CPO, what's the vision there? >> That's right, I just joined up Pure about eight months ago from VMware as the chief product officer and you're right, I'm the first our chief product officer at Pure. And at VMware I ran the Cloud management business unit, which was a lot about automation and infrastructure as code. And it's just great to join Pure, which has a phenomenal all flash product set. I kind of call it the iPhone or flash story super easy to use. And how do we take that same ease of use, which is a heart of a Cloud operating principle, and how do we actually take it up to really deliver a modern data experience, which includes infrastructure and storage as code, but then even more beyond that and how do you do modern operations and then modern data services. So super excited to be at Pure. And the vision, if you may, at the end of the day, is to provide, leveraging this moderate experience, a connected and effortless experience data experience, which allows customers to ultimately focus on what matters for them, their business, and by really leveraging and managing and winning with their data, because ultimately data is the new oil, if you may, and if you can mine it, get insights from it and really drive a competitive edge in the digital transformation in your head, and that's what be intended to help our customers to. >> So you joined earlier this year kind of, I guess, middle of the pandemic really I'm interested in kind of your first 100 days, what that was like, what key milestones you set and now you're into your second a 100 plus days. How's that all going? What can you share with us in and that's interesting timing because the effects of the pandemic you came in in a kind of post that, so you had experience from VMware and then you had to apply that to the product organization. So tell us about that sort of first a 100 days and the sort of mission now. >> Absolutely, so as we talked about the vision, around the modern data experience, kind of have three components to it, modernizing the infrastructure and really it's kudos to the team out of the work we've been doing, a ton of work in modernizing the infrastructure, I'll briefly talk to that, then modernizing the data, much more than modernizing the operations. I'll talk to that as well. And then of course, down the pike, modernizing data services. So if you think about it from modernizing the infrastructure, if you think about Pure for a minute, Pure is the first company that took flash to mainstream, essentially bringing what we call consumer simplicity to enterprise storage. The manual for the products with the front and back of a business card, that's it, you plug it in, boom, it's up and running, and then you get proactive AI driven support, right? So that was kind of the heart of Pure. Now you think about Pure again, what's unique about Pure has been a lot of our competition, has dealt with flash at the SSD level, hey, because guess what? All this software was built for hard drive. And so if I can treat NAND as a solid state drive SSD, then my software would easily work on it. But with Pure, because we started with flash, we released went straight to the NAND level, and as opposed to kind of the SSD layer, and what that does is it gives you greater efficiency, greater reliability and create a performance compared to an SSD, because you can optimize at the chip level as opposed to at the SSD module level. That's one big advantage that Pure has going for itself. And if you look at the physics, in the industry for a minute, there's recent data put out by Wikibon early this year, effectively showing that by the year 2026, flash on a dollar per terabyte basis, just the economics of the semiconductor versus the hard disk is going to be cheaper than hard disk. So this big inflection point is slowly but surely coming that's going to disrupt the hardest industry, already the high end has been taken over by flash, but hybrid is next and then even the long tail is coming up over there. And so to end to that extent our lead, if you may, the introduction of QLC NAND, QLC NAND powerful competition is barely introducing, we've been at it for a while. We just recently this year in my first a 100 days, we introduced the flasher AC, C40 and C60 drives, which really start to open up our ability to go after the hybrid story market in a big way. It opens up a big new market for us. So great work there by the team,. Also at the heart of it. If you think about it in the NAND side, we have our flash array, which is a scale-up latency centric architecture and FlashBlade which is a scale-out throughput architecture, all operating with NAND. And what that does is it allows us to cover both structured data, unstructured data, tier one apps and tier two apps. So pretty broad data coverage in that journey to the all flash data center, slowly but surely we're heading over there to the all flash data center based on demand economics that we just talked about, and we've done a bunch of releases. And then the team has done a bunch of things around introducing and NVME or fabric, the kind of thing that you expect them to do. A lot of recognition in the industry for the team or from the likes of TrustRadius, Gartner, named FlashRay, the Carton Peer Insights, the customer choice award and primary storage in the MQ. We were the leader. So a lot of kudos and recognition coming to the team as a result, Flash Blade just hit a billion dollars in cumulative revenue, kind of a leader by far in kind of the unstructured data, fast file an object marketplace. And then of course, all the work we're doing around what we say, ESG, environmental, social and governance, around reducing carbon footprint, reducing waste, our whole notion of evergreen and non-disruptive upgrades. We also kind of did a lot of work in that where we actually announced that over 2,700 customers have actually done non-disruptive upgrades over the technology. >> Yeah a lot to unpack there. And a lot of this sometimes you people say, oh, it's the plumbing, but the plumbing is actually very important too. 'Cause we're in a major inflection point, when we went from spinning disk to NAND. And it's all about volumes, you're seeing this all over the industry now, you see your old boss, Pat Gelsinger, is dealing with this at Intel. And it's all about consumer volumes in my view anyway, because thanks to Steve Jobs, NAND volumes are enormous and what two hard disk drive makers left in the planet. I don't know, maybe there's two and a half, but so those volumes drive costs down. And so you're on that curve and you can debate as to when it's going to happen, but it's not an if it's a when. Let me, shift gears a little bit. Because Cloud, as I was saying, it's ushered in this API economy, this as a service model, a lot of infrastructure companies have responded. How are you thinking at Pure about the as a service model for your customers? What's the strategy? How is it evolving and how does it differentiate from the competition? >> Absolutely, a great question. It's kind of segues into the second part of the moderate experience, which is how do you modernize the operations? And that's where automation as a service, because ultimately, the Cloud has validated and the address of this model, right? People are looking for outcomes. They care less about how you get there. They just want the outcome. And the as a service model actually delivers these outcomes. And this whole notion of infrastructure as code is kind of the start of it. Imagine if my infrastructure for a developer is just a line of code, in a Git repository in a program that goes through a CICD process and automatically kind of is configured and set up, fits in with the Terraform, the Ansibles, all that different automation frameworks. And so what we've done is we've gone down the path of really building out what I think is modern operations with this ability to have storage as code, disability, in addition modern operations is not just storage scored, but also we've got recently introduced some comprehensive ransomware protection, that's part of modern operations. There's all the threat you hear in the news or ransomware. We introduced what we call safe mode snapshots that allow you to recover in literally seconds. When you have a ransomware attack, we also have in the modern operations Pure one, which is maybe the leader in AI driven support to prevent downtime. We actually call you 80% of the time and fix the problems without you knowing about it. That's what modern operations is all about. And then also Martin operations says, okay, you've got flash on your on-prem side, but even maybe using flash in the public Cloud, how can I have seamless multi-Cloud experience in our Cloud block store we've introduced around Amazon, AWS and Azure allows one to do that. And then finally, for modern applications, if you think about it, this whole notion of infrastructure's code, as a service, software driven storage, the Kubernetes infrastructure enables one to really deliver a great automation framework that enables to reduce the labor required to manage the storage infrastructure and deliver it as code. And we have, kudos to Charlie and the Pure storage team before my time with the acquisition of Portworx, Portworx today is truly delivers true storage as code orchestrated entirely through Kubernetes and in a multi-Cloud hybrid situation. So it can run on EKS, GKE, OpenShift rancher, Tansu, recently announced as the leader by giggle home for enterprise Kubernetes storage. We were really proud about that asset. And then finally, the last piece are Pure as a service. That's also all outcome oriented, SLS. What matters is you sign up for SLS, and then you get those SLS, very different from our competition, right? Our competition tends to be a lot more around financial engineering, hey, you can buy it OPEX versus CapEx. And, but you get the same thing with a lot of professional services, we've really got, I'd say a couple of years and lead on, actually delivering and managing with SRE engineers for the SLA. So a lot of great work there. We recently also introduced Cisco FlashStack, again, flash stack as a service, again, as a service, a validation of that. And then finally, we also recently did a announcement with Aquaponics, with their bare metal as a service where we are a key part of their bare metal as a service offering, again, pushing the kind of the added service strategy. So yes, big for us, that's where the buck is skating, half the enterprises, even on prem, wanting to consume things in the Cloud operating model. And so that's where we're putting it lot. >> I see, so your contention is, it's not just this CapEx to OPEX, that's kind of the, during the economic downturn of 2007, 2008, the economic crisis, that was the big thing for CFOs. So that's kind of yesterday's news. What you're saying is you're creating a Cloud, like operating model, as I was saying upfront, irrespective of physical location. And I see that as your challenge, the industry's challenge, be, if I'm going to effect the digital transformation, I don't want to deal with the Cloud primitives. I want you to hide the underlying complexity of that Cloud. I want to deal with higher level problems, but so that brings me to digital transformation, which is kind of the now initiative, or I even sometimes call it the mandate. There's not a one size fits all for digital transformation, but I'm interested in your thoughts on the must take steps, universal steps that everybody needs to think about in a digital transformation journey. >> Yeah, so ultimately the digital transformation is all about how companies are gain a competitive edge in this new digital world or that the company are, and the competition are changing the game on, right? So you want to make sure that you can rapidly try new things, fail fast, innovate and invest, but speed is of the essence, agility and the Cloud operating model enables that agility. And so what we're also doing is not only are we driving agility in a multicloud kind of data, infrastructure, data operation fashion, but we also taking it a step further. We were also on the journey to deliver modern data services. Imagine on a Pure on-prem infrastructure, along with your different public Clouds that you're working on with the Kubernetes infrastructures, you could, with a few clicks run Kakfa as a service, TensorFlow as a service, Mongo as a service. So me as a technology team can truly become a service provider and not just an on-prem service provider, but a multi-Cloud service provider. Such that these services can be used to analyze the data that you have, not only your data, your partner data, third party public data, and how you can marry those different data sets, analyze it to deliver new insights that ultimately give you a competitive edge in the digital transformation. So you can see data plays a big role there. The data is what generates those insights. Your ability to match that data with partner data, public data, your data, the analysis on it services ready to go, as you get the digital, as you can do the insights. You can really start to separate yourself from your competition and get on the leaderboard a decade from now when this digital transformation settles down. >> All right, so bring us home, Ajay, summarize what does a modern data strategy look like and how does it fit into a digital business or a digital organization? >> So look, at the end of the day, data and analysis, both of them play a big role in the digital transformation. And it really comes down to how do I leverage this data, my data, partner data, public data, to really get that edge. And that links back to a vision. How do we provide that connected and effortless, modern data experience that allows our customers to focus on their business? How do I get the edge in the digital transformation? But easily leveraging, managing and winning with their data. And that's the heart of where Pure is headed. >> Ajay Singh, thanks so much for coming inside theCube and sharing your vision. >> Thank you, Dave, it was a real pleasure. >> And thank you for watching this Cube conversation. This is Dave Vellante and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering Nutanix.NEXT 2019 Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT here at the Bella Center in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co host, Stu Miniman. We're joined by two guests this segment. We have Mayur Shah. He is the Global Head, Data Center and Software Defined Everything SDx at Wipro. Thank you for coming on the show. >> Thank you. >> And Thenu Kittappa, Director GSI Sales at Nutanix. Thank you so much. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we're talking today about fluid ITs. Wipro, of course, is an Indian multinational corporation based in Bangalore. You gave us a talk yesterday here at Nutanix .NEXT. Tell our viewers a little bit about how you view fluid IT. >> Sure. So we believe that the kind of transition the industry is going through, the pressure businesses are getting in terms of having their offering aligned to the customer expectations, they're digital natives, and so and so forth have digital transformations. They are also under tremendous pressure of innovating much faster than they used to do before. And the same pressure has been put back to the IT. How IT support that kind of changes and agility, which business would need in general. We believe that now, previously we used to have a plan for five years and a roadmap and we used to forecast what kind of architecture mission may end. But now it's time for us to give that back to business. There are a lot of uncertainties and how we can handle those uncertainties that's main reason why we are thinking little out of box in terms of getting things fluid. >> Mayur, I like that comment because part of the transition used to be I bought a product and I thought about how many years did I depreciate that product for? So I want to get your, what are you seeing and how is it impacting your customers? Nutanix talks about building experiences, so are they meeting that goal? How is that helping with both what you're doing and ultimately your end customers? >> So, what we believe is as you rightly say the end user customer's experience, business agility, and their competitiveness for customers at the prime, right? So the way we are now aligning our offerings, aligning to customer needs, changing our models of measurement from SLS to business level BLS. Those are the things which we are doing for aligning to the businesses and ensuring that they benefit in terms of many of our offering are now experience-driven. So SLS and BLS are also experience-driven, so we in our virtual desk offering, we offer the customers based on the experience problem, the penalties are assigned. So we proactively manage the end user experience without them even knowing it. So those are the few examples. >> Thenu, I have to imagine this is a big piece of your job is the traditional channel used to be how do we get beyond selling boxes, selling services, consulting and everything, but the SI is more about that whole experience. >> It's actually a whole different experience. It's been a great show for us from that perspective. We have a lot of our partners starting up, giving us the support we need from the SI community. Wipro was a sponsor, so it's been great. And to be honest, that's exactly what we're trying to do with SIs here. We're taking the solution and outcome based approach. Let's talk to the customer, what their business needs are. Let's see what kind of solutions we build to fit that. It's not just Nutanix. How does Nutanix work with HPE? How does Nutanix work with the networking, SDN? Let's give them an outcome-based solution. And let's support it with the right level of experience. So essentially, just in time to market is the goal that we're trying to achieve with partners like Wipro. >> Thenu, can you give us some examples of what, the kinds of conversations that you're having and then how it influences you when you go back to your company and you go back to Nutanix and you are then in the war room trying to figure out what kind of next new architectures and designs you can provide. >> So normally when we work with customers and with GSIs, you start with the core problem of what are you trying to solve over here, right? You have a five year plan. Are you trying to grow to a certain extent? Are you looking for your VDI to cater a certain security needs or certain financial needs? And so, then, it comes down to what is the business requirement here? Is it scalability? Is it reliability? Is it security? Is it financial modeling? You might be sitting with a customer who says, this is a great option, but I don't have budget to do this. I want to transform myself to the next level of technology, but I don't have a budget. And when we have these joint customer conversations with partners like Wipro, they say, great, let's offer a solution. And here, by solution, we not only cater to the technology, but we're also looking at where you need to end up in five years, what kind of business models and commercial models we can do to support you and what are the right products we can bring to you so that you only concern yourself with the outcome. You don't care about the infrastructure stack underneath it. Let's make everything invisible for you. But they just take our invisible story to a whole different level. >> Mayur, when I think about the transformations that customers are going through, the education and training is often a big piece of that. Where does that fit in to what you're doing, what services Wipro offers, education there, and how much of it does the simplicity of Nutanix involve in that? >> It's a great questions. So what we actually, and it helps us a lot, when we bring in the complex technologies for our end customers, they also have the owners and they need to get appreciative of what we are offering. With Nutanix's simplicity it's all given. They know that things work and things work super simple. Now whatever we bring on top of that, that's where it adds a lot of value without missing too much of time for enabling our end customers, and that gives outcome. So we are, as a whole, as a solution, we are able to give that outcome confidence and experience to customers. >> So what kinds of conversations are you having at this conference, in terms of what kinds of learnings are going on? You're talking to fellow customers of Nutanix and able to say hey, what you're doing over there, maybe we could try something similar at Wipro. >> Yeah, so one good part what I've seen people are using platform for variety of use cases, variety of business applications. Now we at Wipro, we have mastered some of them, but not all of them. But we see a lot of customers speaking about how they are using massive scale for HyperCloud, for instance. They are using it for databases, applications, mission critical applications, and we feel now it's time for us to branch out into that. >> I'd actually like to add to that. All the conversations we've had is amazing with customers. You think you built a product to meet x use cases, and then the customer comes back and says, you guys did great with being on these X use cases, but guess what? I found out this X plus 1 use case, and it's perfect. And that is what we take back and say, okay, is there a market around this, which we can then commercialize and make it easy to consume? >> What would you say, so you're based in San Jose, and you've been with Nutanix for five years now. What would you say are some of the differences that you've seen from US customers versus here we are in Copenhagen, European customers, and also Indian customers? >> Oh, that's a difficult questions. You're really putting me in a difficult position here. But in general, I would, you know, our European customers look to innovation, but they also look to baked in solutions, and more tighter integration and collaboration with partners. The US customers want to be on the cutting edge of technology. They're very high risk-takers, so when you're defining a solution and a model that works for them, it's a completely different ball game in terms of how much risk they are willing to take, what price point they want to do, and then they're also very, very particular about I want Vendor A, B, and C to work together. Go make it happen. With a lot of the Indian and the Asian customers, and even our European customers, they're more SLA based. Mayur, what do you think? >> Absolutely. I think we see a clear, here in this area of Europe, they are much mature, the second and third level of outsourcing people. They are aware of SLAs, they are aware of the services. They expect a little more than what we do and we, let's say if you compare back to India and US in some time, they are the first time or second time outsourcers, but here's the difference, they clearly wonder about the outcome. >> Mayur, the announcements that we've had this week. Are there anything that you're looking to take back to your customers, or anything that either announced or some of the previews they've been giving that you're especially excited about? >> Sure. So I think there's a great timing. I was just talking last night. We are doing investments, innovation investments for three years, it's a three years plan. And exactly the synergies so well. The announcement, what we have heard here are kind of synergizing what we are doing in the road map. For example, we and the fluid IT what she told, is all about delivering those next generation future-proof architecture, leveraging those announcements. The era, we are working on databases as always, which covers the mission-critical application, and things in a much advanced way. We believe in our road map here, we calling it a service theater, which actually delivers the experience and outcome. So there are synergies they talked about insights. And we are talking about delivering those real time, predictable stuff, based on, and our vision is to give intent with everything, so you have to just define the intent and things will fall in place. So there are a lot of synergies and we definitely take back few of them, which is databases as a service, insights, IOTA, Edge, a few key things we will take from here. And of course the HyperCloud, the AWS migration. >> Well, Mayur's being very, very humble here. One of the announcements that we did make over here at the conference was Wipro has standardized with Nutanix on their virtual desk solution and we're going back to both our customers, their customers, and our field with this offering. So the virtual desk is their own IP. They've done very well in the past with virtual desk, but as they are looking to do more standardization, get in to the next generation solutions, we worked very closely with them to build a Nutanix and HPE-based stack with Centrix, to offer this as a turnkey solution, which they've already done, but with better economics and time to market. >> And do you see that as sort of the future? >> Yes. That pretty much becomes a fundamental building block based on which almost all of our other solutions are going to to get built. The next one coming up will be database as a service, similar constructs. How do you make database consumption and Ops transfer to the end user? Followed by IoT, now IoT is a real different ball game because everything is customized. A lot of customers like to go dabble in it, but at the end of the day you need to build a solution around it. >> Thenu, and actually one of the questions we've had is we look as Nutanix moves beyond just infrastructure software to some of the application software, seems that the GSIs would be a critical player for building services. >> Yes! We actually have this really funky graph, verticals, base our AoS, where do GSIs fit in. It's the solution and pulling everything together, and making it more of a customer business case based offering, as opposed to a customer piecing itself. It's becoming a big ask with G2Ks, right? They're not doing large RFPs, they're actually doing very business-based SLAs, and now the control lies with the business owners within large customers. So it fits very well with our story. >> Excellent. Well, thank you so much Thenu and Mayur. Thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, our pleasure. >> Thank you. >> Our pleasure. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of Nutanix .Next coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Euope 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing foundation and eco-system partners. >> Welcome back to the Fira here in Barcelona, Spain. This is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days of coverage is Corey Quinn, and we're excited to have on the program a first time guest, but a company that we've known for quite a while, Daniel Lopez Ridruejo, who's the CEO and co-founder of Bitnami. Just announced recently that Bitnami is being acquired by VMware. Daniel, thanks so much for joining us and congratulations to you and the team on the 'exit' as it were. >> Thank you very much, gracias. It's an honor to be here. >> Yeah so we had Erica Brescia who's the co-founder of yours on theCUBE seven years ago. Back then I was trying to figure out exactly what Bitnami was and where it fit in this whole world. Maybe you can just bring us up to speed for those that maybe don't know, and there's all these people in the enterprise space that might not know your community that the dev space knows real well, as to bring us back the who and the why of Bitnami >> Yeah Erica is my co-founder and we have been building this together over the years. It has been quite a fair ride and, we started Bitnami as an offshoot of our previous company called Bedrock in which we made software easy to install. And then we realized that a lot of what people wanted to make easy to install on Linux was Open Source software, so we started working with companies like MySQL and SugarCRM, Splunk really early on when they were only four or five people, and over time we decided to do the same thing as an Open Source project for all those other tools and projects that didn't have a way to make them easy to install. We started as Bitnami.org, we wanted to emphasize that it was an Open Source project, was never going to be a company, and it didn't turn out that way. >> All right so, we got a lot of things to cover, but help us connect the dots as to those early you know, dot org, it wasn't a company, to a company having the dev space to, we're starting down the path towards the enterprise, which seemed to be a natural fit as to what happened today. >> Yeah so going back to your original question of why we wanted to make, was always being driven. There is all this marvelous Open Source software out there that is super difficult to use for a great majority of people, and we just wanted to lower the barrier to make it easy to use, and that's what got it started. We never expected the success. It turns out we went from a hundred, to a thousand, to ten thousand to hundreds of thousands of downloads, and you know, we're super popular with developers. We have literally millions of developers using Bitnami, and as part of that evolution, we started working with the cloud providers. We drive a significant percentage of usage for Amazon, for Google, for Microsoft, that's what makes it valuable to those cloud vendors, and as the next stage of the company, we wanted to go directly to the enterprises in which we already have a lot of developers in those same enterprises, but when you go move to production, you know that it's a lot of red tape, a lot of gates that you have to go about compliance and security, and that's where we're taking the company to. >> Nine, ten years ago I stumbled over you, over your company or I guess project at that time, and it was the second best way I ever found to run WordPress. The first of course is, don't run WordPress. I'm very serious. Don't run WordPress. And I'm curious now, with the acquisition of Bitnami, what is the longer-term vision for how this fits into a more cloud-native landscape. Is it continuing to just be the, well not just but, is it continuing to be the application you get from a catalog and it's up and running, is their a containerized story, is there something else I'm not seeing? >> No, that's the core of Bitnami, and that will continue to do that. What has evolved over time is that initially you could download an installer and run it on your Mac. And then we were one of the first early adapters of AWS, so we created all these AMIs and when, you know, people were thinking that we were crazy, that Amazon was a company that sold books, but you know, what were we doing? We kind of saw where it was going early on. And then as Kubernetes came along, we were really, really early there as well, and we were one of the early partners of these around Helm. We provided a lot of the Helm charts. Right now we may have dabbled a little bit on Serverless, So whatever comes next, we will be there and our goal continues to be the same thing, which is to make awesome software available to everyone. So independently of the underlying platform, that's where we're focusing, so, the core mission is not changing, we're just omitting that, and going after the enterprise, more red hat enterprise Linux, you know, more OpenShift, more multi tier, high availabilty, more production features. >> All right so, you talk about all those pieces, and you talk about linux and everything there. I want you help connect, how does that tie into VMware and what you see them doing today because, sure Linux has been something that could live on a hypervisor for a long time, but in many ways there's been struggles in competition between VMware and them and the Linux community in the past, but, you know, we're starting to see some of that change and maybe this helps accelerate some of that change. >> Yeah I think there is a couple of companies, Microsoft and VMware, that were completely different companies than five years ago and probably the decision would have been different for us like five years ago versus what the company is today and where they're going. For us VMware is, the holy grail of acquisition is 2 plus 2 equals five, and that's hardly the, you know, there's a lot of acquisitions that don't go that way. For us it was a very thought out decision and it was, I think it was clear for us in the sense that we have a very big footprint with developers, they own enterprise IT, we wanted to go enterprise, they wanted to go into developers, they understand Open Source, they understand distributed teams, yeah. >> Maybe, I'd love to hear your insight as to that developer community, because when I walk around the show floor, you know, there was that struggle between the enterprise and the developers, and now, the storage world, we need to get CI/CD and all these things and they're like "uh, we don't know how to get there" . And over the last few years, it seems there's been a blurring of the lines, and more enterprise is embracing it, Open Source is a big piece of that, so is it, as you said, five years ago this wouldn't have happened, but now it feels like we're ready for that next step of the curve. >> Correct. And all of that is because of this standardization, that Kubernetes is allowing, you can standardize business practices, and your seeing a consolidation, the CI/CD wall. And it's like, things that used to be very exotic now is business as usual. And it's a parallel, you know, I started using Linux in '93, when there was not even a concept of a Linux distribution, you have to do all these things just to get a prompt, but over time people have standardized, you know I remember there were like, 50 or 60 Linux distributions; StagWare, SLS. And eventually, everybody converged on Red Hat enterprise Linux. I think something similar is going to happen, we're just midway there, in which you will not have KubeCon because Kubernetes will be something transparent that is boring. So, we're not there yet, but at some point Kubernetes will be boring and there will be layers on top of that where all the action is. Or will be. >> From my perspective, coming from a small startup background, it seemed to me that VMware was always one of those stodgy, boring companies I didn't have much time for and lately there've been a series of high profile acquisitions, Heptio, Wavefront, CloudFront and now Bitnami, and it's really changing, almost without me noticing, my entire perception of their place in the modern evolving cloud ecosystem. >> I think so, and that's one of the things that attracted us and I talked to Victoria about it, get to spend a bit of time with the CEO, with the people at the high level. For us it was very important. But again, one thing we haven't mentioned is that, for the most part we have been bootstrapped. We have been profitable, we only took a little money from Ycombinator when we were already profitable. So we have choices. Sometimes our BC funded peers don't have that choice, so it was a very meditated decision, and for me for these kind of acquisitions, when a much bigger company joins forces with a smaller company, the strategies need to be aligned. And to me, VMware realized that the world, a few years ago, that the world is going to be moved to cloud, the world is going to go towards Kubernetes and containers. And the acquisition of Heptio, the acquisition of CloudHealth, told us that they're serious about that and that we can fit right in and take advantage of that transformation they are going. And so far it's working really, really, really well and that's part of what made us decide to go in this direction. >> Yeah Daniel, what can you tell us about things, once this actually does close, what will that mean for the brand? What about relationships with, you mentioned Heptio? But not only Heptio, Pivotal obvously is a big player in this space. How does all of that line up? >> With Heptio and other units like the marketplace's other groups, we were already working with them before the acquisition, with Heptio, with ksonnet and a bunch of other initiatives. We're just going to double down on that, and they want to keep Bitnami, they want to keep the brand, they want to keep the team. If anything we're going to get more resources, and again, that was the fact that they didn't want to touch something that is working. We have been partners for, I think, seven or eight years. We have gotten to know each other over that time and built that trust that is needed. In a way nothing is going to change. We're going to have the same team doing the same things, we're just going to have more access to their userbase. Which is what we're going to do. We started down this path because we were raising money to build an enterprise sales force, and at some point we decided, okay, this doesn't make sense. We're going to give away all this chunk of the company to get access to the enterprise, or to build a sales force to get access to the enterprise, when we can be part of VMware and get that for free. >> You've mentioned a fair bit about what's going to change as far as you getting exposure to new customers, effectively broadening into additional markets. What does this mean for your existing customers who are, in some cases, whenever you're a customer of a small-ish company, and there's an acquisition, it sometimes is natural to be a little concerned of, do I need to find a new vendor? Do I need to find a new provider? And frankly, there's nothing else like you that I've ever seen on the market. >> No, that's a really good question. For us, what is a little bit unique is we have millions of users, but we only have a handful of customers. So our customers are AWS, Google, Microsoft, Oracle. So it was very important; VMware is already a vendor to all of these; and so far everybody is going to stay and we're just going to continue and deepen the relationship. And that's one of the things that made this attractive. So for customers, nothing is going to change. And we're just going to continue to deepen those relationships. And again, that was important. Had we gone through some of the other options there would have been a lot of very outward conversations to have and that is not the case. >> Yeah Daniel, how about the developer community itself. It's just had millions of downloads out there. We understand how some of the reaction can be. >> Yeah, everybody is like, is VMware going to be the evil company that's going to touch that? And I think so far the feedback has been extremely positive, including even Hacker News, right, which is shocking. >> And those people don't like anything. >> I've been high Hacker News since the very beginning and it can be harsh. So it was something I was monitoring how people. And so far it has been very positive and that's only not a testimony how much people like Bitnami but also again, VMware acquire Heptio and everything's great. We talk to a lot of the people at Heptio, you know, hey how are things going? How has it been? And everybody loved it there, so for us it was something that gave us a lot of reassurance that all these other companies with a lot of Open Source DNA were being successful there and gave us reassurance. Time will tell. We'll see one year from now where we are, but so far everybody that we have talked to, all the conversations have been great. >> So Daniel you have a very interesting viewpoint on this whole ecosystem, we work with all the cloud providers. Any commentary you'd give of, you talk about that midway point of maturity? Where do you see things today, where do you see them going? What do we need to fix as an industry? >> Well it's very difficult to predict where things are going I just think that at this point it's very safe to say that it's going to be a multi-cloud war. That was not like three, four years ago. It seemed like it could be a repeat of the '90s in which Microsoft own ninety-something percent of the market share. And there was a lot of things that didn't make sense. Right now at least Amazon, plus a bunch of other clouds, are viable, and if anything they are growing. So a lot of companies like HashiCorp, like VMware. Companies that support this multi-cloud environment, not all of them, but all of them are very well positioned to thrive because it's not going to change any time soon. The other thing I think that is safe to assume is, we are going to have more artifacts than ever, so companies like Artifactory, I think they will do well. As any companies have to do to do with security. We're going to have more security issues, not less. But in the long term that's as much as I can predict. >> All right, well, Daniel, thank you so much. Congratulations again, and we look forward to seeing you at VMworld. Where we'll have theCUBE there. It'll actually be our tenth year being at Vmworld. >> Awesome >> So we're excited and always happy to talk to, especially the startups some great news here. For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks as always for watching theCUBE.

(upbeat music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We are joined by Chhandomay Mandal, he is the Director of Solutions Marketing for Dell EMC. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Happy to be here. >> Direct from Boston. This is a Boston panel, I love it. >> Yes, and we were on the same flight yesterday. >> (laughing) There you go! >> Ah, so half of Hopkinton. >> Yeah. So, we're here at Dell Technologies World, but you're here to talk to us about SAP. Explain to our viewers a little bit about the connection between your companies. >> Sure, so SAP connects a lot of our customers. They are running their ERP, CRM, digital procurement, HR systems, and many other workloads on SAP, and we, Dell Technologies, as a company, have a portfolio of solutions to support SAP workloads. So, that's the big connection. SAP and Dell EMC, we are big partners, and we work hand in hand as well. >> Talk a little bit about what SAP customers are doing. You know, everybody knows the stories of SAP multi-year implementation, very complicated, although driving business value, but today people want to be more agile, cloud, Hana, who's been around now for quite a number of years. SAP obviously pushing hard for a number of reasons. What are you seeing in the customer base? >> Yeah, SAP customers are in a journey. As you mentioned, the SAP landscapes implementations. In fact, in 2016, greater than fifty percent of SAP landscapes were running on Oracle. SAP has come up with the in-memory database, SAP Hana, and there is a mandate that by 2025, the customers need to be running on SAP Hana to run any SAP workload. So, customers need to go through that transition, and as the data explodes from IoT, Big Data, BlockChain, our next gen intelligent applications, they are driving a lot of analytics, and SAP has come up with a platform called SAP Leonardo for mission learning. So, customers are trying to consolidate their old SAP landscapes on an agile, modern infrastructure. They are planning to migrate all the older databases to SAP Hana. At the same time, they are looking into deploying SAP Leonardo to take advantage of IoT, AI, BlockChain, all those things. >> So SAP is dangling the carrot. With Hana, it's in memory, performance, efficiency. With Leonardo, it's the promise of machine intelligence, but there are challenges in migrating off of Oracle. How are customers dealing with that? Are you guys in a position to help with the partnership with SAP? Can you talk about that a little bit? >> Yes, SAP implementations, as you know, is fairly complex, takes many months, years, and customers have been running SAP for a long time, so their challenge are, "How do we keep our businesses running while we need to transition from what we have to these SAP Hana based deployments." They are looking into modern infrastructures that will be able to consolidate all of this around their applications with the same SLS, and at the same time when they migrate one application to the next on SAP Hana, that platform should be able to add up and deliver all the SLS. So, refactoring what they have into this SAP Hana is really big for all of our customers, and how to have a better performing platform, how to deliver the agility's simplification, as well as lower the TCO. These are the projects that CIO's are running for our customers. >> So, as we know, simpler is always better. Can you talk about some of the ROI? What are companies actually seeing in terms of these benefits? >> So, let's take specific examples. Dell EMC PowerMax is the backbone of running SAP applications for a long time. Our previous generations in terms of VMAX, VMAX All Flash, now with our PowerMax, it has the highest skill ability of SLP Hana. It can actually run 162 SAP Hana nodes on a single array, but that's not the end game. The thing is, it can consolidate SAP, traditional SAP workloads, SAP Hana, as well as other mixed workloads while delivering the same performance masking the SLS, with it's built-in mission learning capabilities. Now, what does that translate to? We have several customers seeing benefits out of this. For example, a big sports equipment manufacturer, when they move to this platform, there are software quality assurance process. It used to take like ten days in all the infrastructure. Now they could run on this new platform in two days. That's literally eighty percent improvement, because of the higher performance, the more consolidation that they were able to access. So that's one example just from the performance perspective, but if you take a consolidation simpler to run, there are other examples I can actually walk you through. >> So, I want to double click on that, because every storage company wants to partner with SAP, target that stuff, because Oracle's not that friendly these days. They have their own hardware, right? They're trying to elbow you out with Exadata. So, talk a little bit more about the differentiation that Dell EMC brings relative to some of your other storage competitors, specifically within SAP environments. >> Sure, so first Dell comes in with a portfolio of solutions. As you are mentioning, these are fairly complex deployments, and customers are looking for cross state partner, with professional services, experience, and a portfolio of solutions, not just one solution fits all. Just to continue on that aspect, I talked about Dell EMC PowerMax. It's great for consolidation, for running Hana and the existing workloads, but then when you look at the next generation of applications, the IoT, AI, BlockChain, the unstructured world, Dell EMC Isilon is a great platform which has already been in the market and in the forefront of AI workloads. Dell, as a company, offer a portfolio of solutions, and it's not piecemeal. We see the broader picture, and plug in all the right pieces with the right consulting surfaces as well, so that the customers can run their applications day in and day out, and transition as well as bring in new deployments like SAP Leonardo. I'll give you one example here. Another big service provider, their analytics, their SAP APOs, used to take like 32 hours of run time, and they could only do in weekends. Now, with this Dell EMC storage solutions, they are actually down to, give or take, seven hours. So that's like 78% improvement in terms of how fast they can run this analytics, and this is turning into better decision making for the procurement manager, for the business analyst, and they are able to drive value from time to market, time to value, from all the data that's captured in these SAP landscapes. >> And these are realtime or near realtime analyses that are going on, right? But then ultimately you have to persist the data, that's where things like PowerMax come in, and then sometimes you got to bring it back in, and so are you guys architecting high speed interconnects and InfiniBands and all kinds of crazy stuff? >> All kinds of things-- >> NVMe's... >> And actually, you brought up a very good point. SAP Hana is an in-memory database, so everything is running in the memory speed. Why do you need high performing array like Dell EMC PowerMax? Guess what? Everything is in memory, but this is all critical databases. Everything needs to be persisted back to the storage array, and then when something reboots, you cannot stay still til all the data is back from the storage array into the memory. So, persisting the data quickly and fast reboots are also necessary. Driving the needs of throughputs like what PowerMax provides, 150 gigabits per second throughput, so that's where the connection comes in. >> So the throughputs you're describing really were unthinkable five years ago. Can you reflect on that a little bit in terms of what you've seen the technology do that you really couldn't have even imagined it doing, even in very recent times. >> In fact, that's a very good point. One of the customers that participated in this TOI study, they mentioned they wanted to go to the cloud, public cloud. When they wanted to go to the cloud at the time the maximum size of our database you could do was 2.5 terabyte, and they already had a 4 terabyte SAP database, so there was no way they could go to a public cloud. What they were looking into, the cloud operating model, so that you can actually be flexible with your infrastructure, consume as you go, and we were able to help in that transition with all of the solutions. >> Great. So where you think we're going to be going? I mean in terms of next year's Dell Technologies World 2020, which will be big just because it's a cool number. What do you think we'll be talking about next year's conference? >> That's a very good point, and as you mentioned 2020, we are already seven billion people, and by 2020 it's predicted to be like 30 billion devices generating 44 zettabytes of data, so managing all of this data, putting the data at the right tier, the data that needs to be accessed quickly to make realtime analysis process. The data that's seven days old, putting them in the right tier, accessing them, and driving the value from your data, from this past amount of data, so that you can make decisions, you can gather intelligence, and take this value to drive competitive differentiation will be where we are. And the form factor? Yes, everybody will be able to do all of this pretty much like realtime in phones or even smaller devices. >> It's the march to 2025, when everybody's going to be off Oracle. >> Well exactly! You're right. >> Oh, that's your mandate. >> Anyway, @dvellante if you want to talk about that. We've got a lot pf research on it, so... >> Exactly. >> Not trivial. >> Well Chhandomay, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a pleasure having you. >> Same here. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have much more of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World coming up in just a little bit. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> From Washington, DC, it's theCUBE, covering ScienceLogic Symposium 2019. Brought to you by ScienceLogic. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage of ScienceLogic Symposium 2019, here at the Ritz-Carlton, in Washington, DC. Have about 460 people, it's a good mix of enterprise users, of course there's government agencies, as well as a lot of service providers, which is really where ScienceLogic started and has, many of their customers are in that space. And happy to welcome to the program, coming to us from Europe, a first time guest on the program, Luc Horee, who's RCloud and innovation Manager at Realdolmen, who's, as I said, a service provider. Thanks so much for joining me. >> Thank you, no problem. >> So, you're based in Belgium, you're a service provider, tell us a little bit about Realdolmen, a little bit about the size, scope, number of users, and we'll take it from there. >> Realdolmen is an Belgium company, around 1,500 people in an country that is small compared to the U.S. So we have an total of 11 million people. One of the biggest service providers in Belgium, but we also do reselling, and we also do service integration. Our customers it's Belgium, it's what we call SMB market. But we have around, in total, I think three thousand customers in Belgium. Some only are buying products or licenses, others are in fact in full manage service operations. >> Okay great, yeah, the SMB market, as you call it, we understand, especially for service providers, really important market, help them, I don't want to have to manage my IT, I want to be able to go to experts that can do this. >> That's one of the reasons, yeah. >> RCloud and Innovation Manager, it's an interesting title, tell us a little bit about your role inside the company. >> I already worked for more than 36 years in the company, so I had a lot of jobs within the company. In the previous job I was a Operations Manager, and now I am RCloud and Innovation Manager. RCloud is our private cloud that we are using for hosting customers and serving customers. It's and active-active data center where we can do disaster recovery, set up, and so on. So for customers that are no longer interested in building their own data centers, that's what we doing. And it's for some of them also an in between on-premise data center and public clouds. So we have customers moving to Azure and AWS, and sometimes they just stay for specific reasons in our RCloud. Innovation Manger is about how do we set up, how do we improve our tooling, and how do we improve our processes in helping and unburdening our customers. >> You mentioned the public clouds like Azure and AWS, do you have relationships with them, do you have connections into some of those public clouds? >> We are Microsoft partner, so most of our customers are going to Azure, but it's also building up in Amazon, and we did receive some questions also about Google. >> Okay, great. So when we talk about operations, service providers, very rapid change environment, typically you have a lot of customers to be able to deal with, give us a little bit about what's changing in your business, the infrastructure management and the tooling space. >> In the tooling space, IT is moving, IT in motion is what we heard in the keynote this morning. Customers are expecting a lot, about dashboarding, they want to see how their business is behaving not about what is a device doing. We need to monitor more and more applications, and the business lines. So that's why we are implementing ScienceLogic, or had an implementation of ScienceLogic, and now we doing the second phase in building more runbook automations, more dashboarding, more experience levels instead of SLS or XLS. >> Great, I want to get to the automation, but first, you've only been using ScienceLogic for a couple of years now, bring us back to, was it a bunch of in-house tooling that you had created for managing before that drove us there, paint us a picture of kind of the before and how you ended up with ScienceLogic. >> We had Microsoft Systems Center Operations Manager, we had Nagios, we had some plugs-in on this tooling, so it was I think in total six or seven tools, and we did some interfacing about it. But yeah, seven tools interfacing, not easy to run, a lot of management, a lot of people involved, a lot of skills required, so the reason was simplify it. >> So did you completely eliminate those seven previous tools? >> Yup, as of the 1st of April this year they are gone. >> All right, so there was a little bit of a journey, can you walk us through a little bit about there, was it prying it away from certain people, was it maturity from your side or from a product standpoint, what were some of those points that took a little while to get there. >> It took a while just to convince everybody in the company, set up an organization, it's not only the tooling it's also the organization need to be involved, a lot of communication, there's a change process going on, and we implemented, the first customers were in November 2017 on the system, and since then every month we added sometimes two, sometimes five, sometimes seven, sometimes one, as customer, so the people internally and externally need to get used to the product, so that's step-by-step, keep it simple, do it slowly but fast, and with a deadline. >> So, you talk a little bit about your organization operationally, what's the impact then to your ultimate end user, do they see anything, has it changed how, has it improved cost? >> It's changed certainly for the customers, because the old tools, there was no multi tenancy, there was not easy logon, so they had no access to the dashboards, they were just waiting for the monthly reporting and say, okay, it was up, okay we were, now they can have access, we use single sign-on to do that, so the customers are happy that they can see, they can see line of business dashboarding, and so on. And certainly internally it did improve a lot of cost savings, because a lot of the things we are doing now is automation, and we started the integration with our ITSM tool, and that will go live, normally next week. >> Okay, what ITSM tool are you-- >> It's a German tool, it's from a company called OMNINET, and the tool is called OMNITRACKER. >> Great, talk now about that automation, where have you come so far, where do you see it progressing in the future? >> We started first with some task automation, we have an 24/7 operation team, first-line, and they were doing a lot of manual tasks, so where we can, and what we first did was automate some manual tasks. And now we are progressing with ITSM integration, bi-directional integration, and then we will start with removing from old mailboxes, where we can do some restart automatically, so we will take a look at the incidents, see what we can do, see if we can do some automation with that, and we will certainly progress very far, as far as possible to do more and more automation and less manual work. >> Great, tell us, you've attended this event before, what brings you back to the event? >> First of all I want to see a lot of the demos, what's coming, because we are today, 8.12 version was announced, we are on 8.9, we will move next week to 8.10, so what is coming, so I have to talk internally to people, okay, what's coming, I need to convince all program managers, service delivery managers, I can talk to customers what is coming, what they can expect, so that's one of the reasons. The other reason is to talk to other customers of ScienceLogic, what are you doing, what's helping you, what's not, and so on. >> Yeah, I noticed one of the things they talked about is making it easier to upgrade from versions, when you think about the cloud world, as we talk about it, is, if your customers are in Azure, you don't ask them what version of Azure they're running, you're running whatever version Microsoft has it, they patch it, they update it, if security fix happens it goes there, when you talk about moving from 8.9 to 10 to 12, that process of when do I do it, how do I do it, how's ScienceLogic doing it, keeping things easy to upgrade, were there things in the keynote that you were ready to jump on? >> We started with, the first version 8.3 or 4 I think, and we always try to be in good shape in the newer releases. So we already had some experience with upgrading, and it's going smooth. And whatever I heard from the system engineers, it's going better and better and better. So normally we have only a very small outage to do that, in fact it should be minimal, sometimes they switch over or something like that, when a database is changed, but normally operations is always running 24/7, and there is no interruption for operations. >> Has there been anything at the show that you've seen so far, either through the demos, talking to some of the experts, or in the keynote, that you want to highlight? >> One of the things that I have seen is the connection with the application, with the APM tools, that's what our customers also are requesting more and more, the integration of infrastructure and application, and the multi cloud of course. >> Yeah, that's definitely something we've heard. All right Luc, I want to give you the final word, things to take away, for people that haven't come to a ScienceLogic event, what you think that they should take away from an event like this. >> For me the greatest take-away is come here to learn. Come here to see what is possible, what the future is, what AIOps will mean in the future, prepare yourself for the next three to five years, that's the main reason. >> Great, well thank you so much, preparing for the next three to five years, we know the pace of change isn't slowing down at all, so it's great to be able to talk to a practitioner that's helping to manage and deal with so many of those environments, thanks so much for joining me. >> Thank you. >> All right, and we'll be back with more coverage here, be sure to check out thecube.net for all interviews, I'm Stu Miniman, and thanks so much for watching. (upbeat music)

>>we're back. >>This is Dave Volante. I'm with Wiki bond dot Oregon. This is Silicon angle's the cube where we extract the signal from the noise. We go into the events, we're bringing you the best guests that we can find. And we're here at the AWS summit. Amazon is taking the cloud world by storm. He was on, invented the cloud in 2006. They've popularized it very popular of course with developers. Everybody knows that story. Uh, Amazon appealing to the web startups, but what's most impressive is the degree to which Amazon is beginning to enter the enterprise markets. I'm here with my cohost Jeff Frick and Jeff, we heard Andy Jassy this morning just laying out the sort of marketing messaging and progress and strategies of AWS. One of the things that was most impressive was the pace at which they put forth innovations. We talked about that earlier, but also the pace at which they proactively reduce prices. Uh, that's different than what you'd see in the normal sort of enterprise space. Talk about that a little bit. >>Yeah. Again, I think it really speaks to their strategy to lock up the customer. It's really a lifetime value of the customer and making sure that they don't have a really an opportunity or a reason to go anywhere else. So as we discussed a little bit earlier, they leverage, you know, kind of the pure hardware economics of, of decreasing a computing power, decreasing storage, decreasing bandwidth, but then they also get all the benefits of scale. And I think what's in one of the interesting things that Andy talked about and kind of his six key messages was that it's actually cheaper to rent from them because of the scale than it is to buy yourself. And I know that's a pretty common knock between kind of a build or buy, um, kind of process you go through and usually you would think renting at some scale becomes less economical than if you just did it yourself. But because their scale is so massive because of the flexibility that you can bring, uh, computing resources to bear based on what you're trying to accomplish really kind of breaks down the, uh, the old age old thought that, you know, at scale we need to do it ourselves. >>Well, and that's the premise. Um, I think, and, uh, let's Brits break down a little bit about that, that analysis and, and Andy's keynote. So he put forth some data from IDC which showed that, uh, the Amazon cloud is cheaper than the, uh, a, a so-called private cloud or an in house on premise installation. You know, I certainly, there's, it's, it's a, it's an, it's depends, right? It really depends on the workload. That's somewhat of an apples to orange is going on here and the types of workloads that are going down in the AWS cloud, granted he's right and that they're running Oracle, they're running SAP, but the real mission critical workloads, what he calls mission critical aren't the same as what, you know, Citi would call mission critical. Right? So to replicate that level of mission criticality, uh, would probably almost most certainly be more expensive rental versus owning the real Achilles heel of, of, of any cloud, not just Amazon. >>Cloud really is getting data out. Um, moving data, right? Amazon's going to charge you not to get data in. They're gonna charge you to store it there to exercise, you know, compute. Uh, and then, but they're also gonna charge it if you wanted to take it out. That's expensive. The bandwidth costs and the extrication costs are expensive. Uh, the other issue with cloud again is data movement. It takes a long time to move a terabyte, let alone multiple terabytes. So those are sort of the two sort of Achilles heels of, of cloud. But that's not specific to Amazon's cloud. That's any cloud. Yeah. So we've got a great lineup today. Um, let's see. We've got Ariel Kelman coming on, uh, and I believe he's in the house. So we're going to take a quick break. Quick break. Right now we right back with Ariel Kelman, who's the head of marketing at AWS. Keep right there. This is the cube right back. >>we lift out all the programs out there and identified a gap in tech news coverage. Those shows are just the tip of the iceberg and we're here for the deep dive, the market beg for our program to fill that void. We're not just touting off headlines. We also want to analyze the big picture and ask the questions that no one else is asking. We work with analysts who know the industry from the inside out. So what do you think was the source of this missing? So you mentioned briefly there are, that's the case then why does the world need another song? We're creating a fundamental change in news coverage, laying the foundation and setting the standard, and this is just the beginning. We looked on all the programs out there and identified a gap in tech news coverage. There are plenty of tech shows that provide new gadgets and talk about the latest in gaming, but those shows aren't just the tip of the iceberg. And we're here for the deep dive. >>Okay, >>Dave Olanta. I'm with Wiki bond.org and this is Silicon angle's the cube where we extract signal from the noise. We bring you the best guest that we can find. We go into events like ESPN goes into sporting events, we go into tech events, we find the tech athletes and bring to you their knowledge and share with you our community. We're here at Moscone in San Francisco at the AWS summit. We're here with Arielle Kellman who's the head of worldwide marketing for AWS. Arielle, welcome to the cube. Thanks for having me, Dave. Yeah, our pleasure. I really appreciate you guys having us here. Great venue. Uh, let's see. What's the numbers? It looks like you know, many, many thousands, well over 5,000 people here by four or 5,000 people here. We're doing a about a dozen of these around the world, one to 4,000 people to help educate our customers about all the new things we're doing, all the new partners that are available to help them thrive in the AWS cloud. >>It's mind boggling the amount of stuff that you guys are doing. We just heard NG Jesse's keynote, for those of you who saw Andy's keynote at reinvent, a lot of similar themes with some, some new stuff in there, but one of the most impressive, he said, he said, other than security, one of the things that we're most proud of is the pace at which we introduce new services. And he talked about this fly wheel effect. Can you talk about that a little bit? Sure. Well, there's kind of two different things going on. The pace of innovation is we're really trying to be nimble and customer centric and ultimately we're trying to give our customers a complete set of services to run virtually any workload in the cloud. So you see us expanding a broader would additional services. And then as we get feedback we add more and more features. >>Yeah. So we're obviously seeing a big enterprise push. Uh, Andy was, was very, I thought, politically correct. He said, look, there's one model which is to keep charging people as much as you possibly can. And then there's our model, which is we proactively cut prices and we passed that on to customers. Um, and, and he also stressed that that's not something that's not a gimmick. It's not a sort of a onetime thing. Can you talk about that in terms of your philosophy and your DNA? It's just our philosophy. It's actually a lot less dramatic than is often portrayed in the press. Just the way we look at things as we're constantly trying to drive efficiencies out of our operations. And as we lower our cost structure, we have a choice. We can either pocket those savings as extra margin or we can pass those savings along to our customers in the form of lower prices. >>And we feel that the ladder is the approach that customers like and we want to make our customers happy. So this event, uh, we were talking off camera, you said you've been doing these now for about two years. You do re-invent once a year. That's your big conference out in Vegas and it's a very, very large event, very well attended. And you do these regionally and in and around the world, right. Talk about that a little bit. We do about a dozen of these a year. Um, we did, uh, New York a couple of weeks ago, London, Australia and Sydney. I'm going to go to India and Tokyo, really about a dozen cities in the world and it's a little tactic. I'm not going to beat all of them, but you know, the focus is to really, uh, deliver educational content. Uh, we'll do about maybe 12 to 16 technical breakout sessions all for free, uh, for, for customers and people who want to learn about AWS for the first time. >>And the, and the audience here is largely practitioners and partners, right? Can it talk about the makeup a little bit? Sure. It's a pretty diverse set of people. Um, we have a technical executives like CEOs and architects and we have lots of developers and then lots of people from our, our partner ecosystem of integrators wanting to, um, you know, brush up on the latest technologies and skills and a lot of people who just want to learn about the cloud and learn about AWS. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about AWS and I'd like to just tackle some of those with you if I may. So let me just sort of, let's list them off and you can respond. Yeah, we'll let our audience to sort of decide. So the first is that AWS has only tested dev workloads. Can you talk about that a little bit? >>Sure. Um, well test and dev local workloads are very popular. We saw, we covered that in the keynote. Um, and it's often a place where it organizations will start out with AWS, but it is by no means the most popular or most dominant workload. We have a lot of people migrating, uh, enterprise apps to the cloud. Um, if you look at, uh, in New York, uh, in our summit we talked about Bristol Myers Squibb, uh, running all of their, um, clinical trial simulations and reducing the amount of time it takes to run a simulation by 98%. Uh, if people are running Oracle, SharePoint, SAP, pretty much any workload in the cloud. And then another popular use is building brand new applications, uh, for the cloud. You can miss, some people call them cloud native applications. A good example is the Washington post who built an app called the social reader that delivers their content to Facebook and now as more people viewing their content, their than with their print magazines and they just couldn't have done that, uh, on premises. >>So, uh, the other one I want to talk about, we're going to do some serious double clicking on security so we don't have to go crazy on it, but, but there's a sort of common perception that the cloud is not secure. What do you guys say about that? Yeah, so, um, really our number one priority is security. You're looking at a security, operational performance, uh, and then our pace of innovation. But with security, um, what we want to do is to give enterprises everything they need to understand how our security works and to evaluate it and how it meets with their requirements for their projects. So it really all starts with our, our physical security, um, our network security, the access of our people. They're all the similar types of technologies that our customers are familiar with. And then they also tend to look at all the certifications and accreditations, SAS 70 type two SOC one SIS trust. >>I ATAR for our government customers. And then I think it was something a lot of people don't understand is how much work we've put into the security features. It's not just is the cloud secure, but can I interact and integrate, uh, your security functionality with all of my existing systems so we can integrate with people's identity and access systems. You could have a private dedicated connection from your enterprise to AWS with direct connect to, I really encourage anyone who has interest in digging into our security features to go to the security center and our website. It's got tons of information. So I'm putting on the spot. Um, what percent of data centers in the world have security that are, that is as good or better than AWS. It'd be an interesting thing for us to do a survey on. But if you think about security at the infrastructure layer down is what we take care of. >>Now when you build your application, you can build a secure app or non-secure app. So the customer has some responsibility there. But in terms of that cloud infrastructure, um, for a vast majority of our customers, they're getting a pretty substantial upgrade in their security. And here's something to think about is that, um, we run a multitenant service, so we have lots and lots of customers sharing that infrastructure and we get feedback from some of the most security conscious companies in the world and government agencies. So when our customers are giving us a enhancement request, and let's say it is, uh, an oil company like shell or financial services company like NASDAQ, and we implement that improvement because there's always new requirements. We implement that all of our hundreds of thousands of customers get those improvements. So it's very hard for a lot of companies to match that internally, to stay up to speed with all the latest, um, requirements that people need. >>Yeah. Okay. So, uh, and you touched on this as well as the compliance piece of it, but when you think of things like, like HIPAA compliance for example, I think a lot of people don't realize that you guys are a lead in that regard. Can you talk about that a little bit more? Yeah. So, uh, we have a lot of customers running HIPAA compliant, uh, workloads. Um, there's, there's one company or the, the Schumacher group, which does emergency room staffing out of Lafayette, Louisiana. And we, companies like that are going through the process. They have to follow their internal compliance guidelines for implementing a HIPAA compliant plan app. It's actually, it's more about how you implement and manage the application than the infrastructure, which is part of it. But we, we satisfy that for our customers. Let's talk a little bit about SLA. That didn't come up at least today in Andy's keynote, but it didn't reinvent and he made a statement at reinvent. >>He said, we've never lost a piece of business because of SLS. And that caught my attention and I said, okay, interesting. Um, talk about, uh, the criticisms of the SLA. So a lot of people say, wow, SLA, not just of Amazon's cloud, but any public cloud. I mean, SLA is a really a, in essence, a, an indication of the risk that you're able to take and willing to take. What are your customers tell you about SLS? The first thing is we don't hear a lot of questions about SLS from our customers. Some customers, it's very important that we have SLA is for most of our services, but what they're usually judging us on is the operational track record that we provide and doing testing and seeing how we operate and how we perform. Uh, and, uh, we had an analyst from IDC recently do a survey of a bunch of our customers and they found that on average the average app that runs on AWS had 80% less downtime than similar apps that are running on premises. >>So we have a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that our customers are seeing a reliability improvement by migrating their apps to AWS. You're saying don't judge us on the paper, judge us on our actual activities in production and in the field. Typically what most of our customers are asking for is they want to dig into the actual operational features and, and a track record. Now the other thing I want to address is the so called, you know, uh, uh, exit tax, right? It's no charge to get my data in there. I keep my data in there. You, you, you charged me for storing it for exercise and compute activity, but it's expensive to get it out. Um, how do you address that criticism? Well, our pricing is different for every service and we really model it around our customers to both really to really satisfy a broad set of use cases. >>So one example I think you may be talking about is I would Amazon glacier archive service, which is one penny per gigabyte per month. And for an archive service, we figured that most people want to keep their data in there for a long period of time so that we want to make it as cheap as possible for people to put it in. And if you actually needed to pull it out, the reason is because you may have had some disaster or you accidentally deleted something and that you are going to be, uh, you're going to be retrieving data on a far less frequent basis. So on an overall basis for most customers it makes sense that we could have done is made the retrieval costs lower and then made the storage costs higher. But the feedback we got from customers is, you know, archiving a majority of customers may never even retrieve that data at all. >>So it ended up being cheaper for a vast majority of our customers. I mean that's the point of glacier. If you put it there, you kind of hope you never have to go back and get it. Um, the other thing I wanted to ask you about is some of the innovations that we've seen lately in the industry, like a red shift, right? The data warehouse, you mentioned glacier. It was interesting. Andy said that glacier is the fastest growing service in terms of customers. Red shift was the fastest growing service, I guess overall at NAWS. So Redshift is an interesting move for you guys. Uh, that whole big data and analytics space. What if you could talk about that a little bit? If you talk to it, executives in the enterprise and even startups now, they have to analyze lots of data. Building a big data warehouse is, is one of the best examples of how much the pain of hardware and software infrastructure gets in the way of people. >>And there's also a gatekeeping aspect to it. If you're working in a big company and you want to run, you have a question and a hypothesis, you want to run queries against terabytes and petabytes of data, you pretty often have to go and ask for permission. Can I borrow some time from the data warehouse? No, no, no, no. You're not as important. Well, what are customers going to go, Hey, I'm going to go load the data, load a petabyte of data, run a bunch of analysis, and shut it down and only pay for a few hours. So it's not just about making a cheaper, it's about making use of technology possible where it was just not possible in feasible and cost prohibited before. Yeah, so that's an important point. I mean, it's not, it's not just about sort of moving workloads to the cloud, you know, the old saying a my mess for less. >>It's about enabling new business processes and new procedures and deeper business integration. Um, can you talk about that a little bit more? Add a little color to that notion of adding value beyond just moving workloads out of, you know, on premise into the cloud to cut costs, cut op ex, but enabling new business capabilities. When you remove the infrastructure burden between your ideas and what you want to do, you enable new things to be possible. I think innovation is a big aspect of this where if you think about if you reduce the cost of failure for technology projects so much that approaches zero, you change the whole risk taking culture in a company and more people can try out new ideas and companies can Greenlight more ideas because if they fail it doesn't cost you that much. You haven't built up all this infrastructure. So if you have more ideas that are, that are cultivated, you end up with more innovation. >>Whereas before people are too afraid to try new things. So I'm a reader of of Jeffrey's a annual letters. I mean I think they're great. They're Warren buffet like in that regard. One of the exact emphasizes, you know this year was the customer focus. You guys are a customer focused organization, not a competitive focused organization. And again, you got to recognize that both models can work, right? Can you talk about that a little bit? Just the church of the culture. Yeah, I mean when, you know, starts out with how we build our products. Anyone who has a new idea for a product, first thing they got to do is write the press release. So what our customers are going to see is it valuable to them. And then we get come get products out quickly and then we iterate with customers. We don't spend five years building the first version of something. >>We get it out quickly. Uh, sort of the, the, the lean startup, if you heard of the minimum viable product approach, get it out there and get feedback from customers. Uh, and iterate. We don't spend a lot of time looking at what our competitors are doing cause they're not the ones that pay our bill. They're not the ones that can hire and fire us. It's the customers. So I'm you've seen this thing come, you know, quite a ways. I mean, you were at Salesforce, right? Um, which I guess started at all in 99. You could sell that, look at that as the modern cloud sort of movement was, wasn't called cloud. And then you guys in 2006 actually announced what we now know is, you know, the cloud, where are we in terms of, you know, the cloud, you know, what ending is it? To use the sports analogy, I don't know what ending is it, but you know, it's an amazing time where there's such a massive amount of momentum of adoption of the cloud from every type of company, every type of government agency. >>But yet still, when you look at the percentage of it spend or you go talk to a large company and you say, even with all these projects, what percentage of your total projects, there's still tremendous growth ahead of us. Yeah. So, um, there's always that conversation about the pie charts. 70% of our, our effort is spent on keeping the lights on. 30% is spent on, on innovation. And I don't know where that number came from but, but I think generally anecdotally it feels about right. Um, talk about that shift. Yeah. Well I mean your customer base, you talk to any CIO, they don't like the idea of having 80% of their staff and budget being focused on keeping the lights on and the infrastructure would they like to do is to really shift the mix of what people are working on within their organization. It's not about getting rid of it, it's about giving it tools so that every ounce of effort they're doing is geared towards delivering things to the business. >>And that, that, that's what gets CIO is excited about the cloud is really shifting that and having a majority of their people building and iterating with their end users and with their customers. So we talked about the competition a little bit. I want to ask you a question in general, general terms, you guys have laid out sort of the playbook and there's a lot more coming. We know that, uh, but you know this industry quite well. You know, it's very competitive. People S people see what leaders are doing and they all sort of go after it. Why do you feel confident that AWS will be able to maintain its lead and Kennedy even extend its lead in why? Well, there's a couple things that we sort of suggest for customers to look at. I think first of all is the track record and experience of when you're looking at a cloud provider, have they been in this business for a long time? >>Do they have a services mentality where they've had customers trust them for their, for applications that really they trust their business on? Um, and then I think secondly, is there a commitment to innovation? Is there a pace of new features and new technologies as requirements change? And I think the other, the other piece that our customers really give us a lot of feedback on is that they can count on us Lauren prices, they can count on a real partnership as we get better at this and we're always learning as we get better and we reduce our cost structure, they're going to get to benefit and lower their costs as well. So I think those are kind of big things. The other thing is, is the customer ecosystem I think is a big part of it where, um, you know, this is technology. Uh, people need advice, they need, uh, best practices. >>They often need help. And I'm in a kind of analogy I make is if I have a problem with my phone, with my iPhone, I can probably close my eyes and throw it, I'm going to hit someone who also has an iPhone. I can ask them for help. Well, if you're a startup in San Francisco or London or if you're an enterprise in New York or Sydney, odds are that your colleagues, if they're doing cloud, they're doing it with AWS and you have a lot of people to help you out. A lot of people to share best practices with. And that's a subtle but important point is as, as industry participants begin to aggregate within your cloud, there's a data angle there, right? Because there's data that potentially those organizations could share if they so choose to a, that is a, that is a value. And as you say, the best practice sharing as well. >>I have two last questions for you. Sure. First is, is what gets you excited in this whole field? I think it's like seeing what customers are doing. I mean, that's the cool thing about, uh, offering cloud infrastructure is that anything is possible. Like we met Ryan, uh, who spoke from atomic fiction. These guys are the world's first digital effects agency that's 100% in the cloud. And to see that they made a movie and all the effects like the Robertson mech, his flight film without owning a single server, um, it's just, it's amazing. And to see what these guys can do, how happy they are to have a group of 30, 40 artists that, um, can say yes when the director says I want it to do differently. I want to add, go from 150 to 300 shots and to see how happy and excited they are. >>I mean that, that's what motivates me. Yeah. Okay. And then my last question, Ariel, is, um, you know, what keeps you up at night? What worries you? Well, I think, you know, the most important thing that we can't forget is to really keep our fingers on the pulse of the customers and what they want, and also helping them to figure out what they want next. Because if we don't keep moving, then we're not going to keep pace with what the customers want to use the cloud for. All right, Ariel Kelman thanks very much. Congratulations on the Mason's progress and we'll be watching and, and really appreciate, again, you having us here. Appreciate your time coming on. Good luck with the rest of the tour. I hope you don't have to do every city. It sounds like you don't, but, uh, but if it sounds like you've enjoyed them, so, uh, congratulations again. Great. All right. This is Dave Milan to keep it right there. This is the cube. We'll be back with our next guest right after this word.