>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon web services, intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of AWS re:Invent, here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host John Furrier. We're joined by Clement Pang. He is the co-founder of Wavefront by VMware. Welcome. >> Thank you Thank you so much. >> It's great to have you on the show. So, I want you tell our viewers a little bit about Wavefront. You were just purchased by VMware in May. >> Right. >> What do you do, what is Wavefront all about? >> Sure, we were actually purchased last year in May by VMware, yeah. We are an operational analytics company, so monitoring, I think is you could say what we do. And the way that I always introduce Wavefront is kind of a untold secret of Silicon Valley. The reason I said that is because in the, well, just look at the floor. You know, there's so many monitoring companies doing logs, APM, metrics monitoring. And if you really want to look at what do the companies in the Valley really use, right? I'm talking about companies such as Workday, Watts, Groupon, Intuit, DoorDash, Lyft, they're all companies that are customers of Wavefront today. So they've obviously looked at all the tools that are available on the market, on the show floor, and they've decided to be with Wavefront, and they were with us before the acquisition, and they're still with us today, so. >> And they're the scale-up guys, they have large scale >> That's right, yeah, container, infrastructure, running clouds, hybrid clouds. Some of them are still on-prem data centers and so we just gobble up all that data. We are platform, we're not really opinionated about how you get the data. >> You call them hardcore devops. >> Yes, hardcore devops is the right word, yeah. >> Pushing the envelope, lot of new stuff. >> That's right. >> Doing their own innovation >> So even serverless and all the ML stuff that that's been talked about. They're very pioneering. >> Alright, so VMware, they're very inquisitive on technology, very technology buyers. Take a minute to explain the tech under the covers. What's going on. >> Sure, so Wavefront is a at scale time series database with an analytics engine on top of it. So we have actually since expanded beyond just time series data. It could be distributed histograms, it could be tracing, it includes things like events. So anything that you could gather up from your operation stack and application metrics, business metrics, we'll take that data. Again, I just said that we are unopinionated so any data that you have. Like sometimes it could be from a script , it could be from your serverless functions. We'll take that data, we'll store it, we'll render it and visualize it and of course we don't have people looking at charts all day long. We'll alert you if something bad is going on. So teams just really allow the ability to explore the data and just to figure out trends, correlations and just have a platform that scales and just runs reliably. >> With you is Switzerland. >> Yeah, basically I think that's the reason why VMware is very interested, is cause we work with AWS, work with Azure, work with GCP and soon to be AliCloud and IBM, right. >> Talk about why time series data is now more on board. We've got, we've had this conversation with Smug, we saw the new announcement by Amazon. So 'cause if you 're doing real-time, time matters and super important. Why is it important now, why are people coming to the realization as the early adopters, the pioneers. >> That's right, I think I used to work at Google and I think Google, very early on I realized that time series is a way to understand complex systems, especially if you have FMR workloads and so I think what companies have realized is that logs is just very voluminous, it's very difficulty to wield and then traditional APM products, they tend to just show you what they want to show you, like what are the important paying points that you should be monitoring and with Wavefront, it's just a tool that understands time series data and if you think about it, most of the data that you gather out of your operational environment is timer series data. CPU, memory, network, how many people logging in, how many errors, how many people are signing up. We certainly have our customer like Lyft. You know, how many of you are getting Rise, how many credit cards are off. You know all of that information drives, should we pay someone because a certain city, nobody is getting picked up and that's kind of the dimension that you want to be monitoring on, not on the individual like, okay this base, no network even though we monitor those of course. >> You know, Clement, I got to talk to you about the supporting point because we've been covering real time, we've been covering IoT, we've been doing a ton of stuff around looking at the importance of data and having data be addressable in real-time. And the database is part of the problem and also the overall architecture of the holistic operating environment. So to have an actual understanding of time series is one. Then you actually got to operationalize it. Talk about how customers are implementing and getting value out of time series data and how they differentiate that with data leagues that they might spin up as well as the new dupe data in it. Some might not be valuable. All this is like all now coming together. How do people do that? >> So I think there were a couple of dimensions to that. So it's scalability is a big piece. So you have to be able to take in enormous amount of data, (mumbles) data leagues can do that. It has to be real-time, so our latency from ingestion to maturalization on a chart is under our second So if you're a devops team, you're spinning up containers, you can't go blind for even 10 seconds or else you don't know what's going on with your new service that you just launched. So real-time is super important and then there's analytics. So you can't, you can see all the data in real-time but if it's like millions of time series coming in, it's like the matrix, you need to have some way to actually gather some insights out of that data. SO I think that's what we are good at. >> You know a couple of years ago, we were doing Open Compute, a summit that Facebook puts on, you eventually worked with Google so I see he's talking about the cutting edge tech companies. There's so much data going onto the scale, you need AI, you got to have machines so some of the processing, you can't have this manual process or even scrips, you got to have machines that take care of it. Talk about the at-scale component because as the tsunami of data continues to grow, I mean Amazon's got a satellite, Lockheed Martin, that's going to light up edge computing, autonomous vehicles, pentabytes moving to the cloud, time series matters. How do people start thinking about machine learning and AI, what do you guys do. >> So I think post-acquisition I would say, we really double down on looking at AI and machine learning in our system. We, because we don't down sample any of the data that we collect, we have actually the raw data coming in from weather sensors, from machines, from infrastructure, from cloud and we just is able to learn on that because we understand incidence, we understand anomalies. So we can take all of that data and punch it through different kinds of algorithms and figures out, maybe we could just have the computer look at the incoming time series data and tell you if its anomalist, right. The holy grail for VMware I think, is to have a self-driving data center and what that means is you have systems that understands, well yesterday there was a reinforcement learning announcement by Amazon. How do we actually apply those techniques so that we have the observability piece and then we have some way to in fact change against the environment and then we figure out, you know, just let the computer just do it. >> I love this topic, you should come into our studio, if I'm allowed to, we'll do a deep dive on this because there's so many implications to the data because if you have real-time data, you got to have the streaming data come in, you got to make sense of it. The old networking days, we call it differentiate services. You got to differentiate of the data. Machine learning, if the data's good, it works great, but data sucks, machine learning doesn't go well so if I want that dynamic of managing the data so you don't have to do all this cleaning. How do people get that data verified, how do they set up the machine learning. >> Sure, it still required clean data because I mean, it's garbage in, garbage out >> Not dirty data >> So, but the ability for us, for machine learning in general to understand anything in a high dimensional space is for it to figure out, what are the signals from a lot of the noise. A human may require to be reduces in dimensionality so that they could understand a single line, a single chart that they could actually have insights out of. Machines can technically look at hundreds or even tens of thousands of series and figures out, okay these are the two that are the signals and these are the knobs that I could turn that could affect those signals. So I think with machine learning, it actually helps with just the voluminous nature of the data that we're gathering. And figuring out what is the signal from the noise. >> It's a hard problem. So talk about the two functionalities you guys just launched. What's the news, what are you doing here at AWS. >> So the most exciting thing that we launched is our distributed tracing offering. We call it a three-dimensional micro service observability. So we're the only platform that marry metrics, histograms and distributed tracing in a single platform offering. So it's certainly at scale. As I said, it's reliable, it has all the analytical capabilities on top of it, but we basically give you a way to quickly dive down into a problem and realize what the root cause is and to actually see the actual request at it's context. Whether it's troubleshooting , root cause analysis, performance optimization. So it's a single shop kind of experience. You put in our SDK, it goes ahead and figures out, okay you're running Java, you're running Jersey or Job Wizard or Spring Boot and then it figures out, okay these are the key metrics you should be looking at. If there are any violations, we show you the actual request including multiple services that are involved in that request and just give you an out of the box turn keyway to understand at scale, microservice deployments, where are the pain points, where is latency coming from, where are the errors coming from. So that's kind of our first offering that we're launching. Same pricing mode, all that. >> So how are companies going to use this? What kind of business problem is this solving. >> So as the world transitions to a deployment architecture that mostly consists of Microservices, it's no longer a monolytic app, it's no longer an end-tier application. There are a lot of different heterogeneous languages, frameworks are involved, or even AWS. Cloud services, SAS services are involved and you just have to have some way to understand what is goin on. The classic example I have is you could even trace things like an actual order and how it goes through the entire pipeline. Someone places the orders, a couple days later there's someone who, the orders actually get shipped and then it gets delivered. You know, that's technically a trace. It could be that too. You could send that trace to us but you want to understand, so what are the different pieces that was involved. It could be code or it could be like a vendor. I could be like even a human process. All of that is a distributed tracing atom and you could actually send it to Wavefront and we just help you stitch that picture together so you could understand what's really going on. >> What's next for you guys. Now you're part of VMware. What's the investment area, what are you guys looking at building, what's the next horizon? >> So I think, obviously the (mumbles) tracing, we still have a lot to work on and just to help teams figure out, what do they want to see kind of instantly from the data that we've gathered. Again, we just have gathered data for so long, for so many years and at the full resolution so why can't we, what insights can develop out of it and then as I said, we're working on AI and ML so that's kind of the second launch offering that we have here where you know, people have been telling us, it's great to have all the analytics but if I don't have any statistical background to anything like that, can you just tell me, like, I have a chart, a whole bunch of lines, tell me just what I should be focusing on. So that's what we call the AI genie and so you just apply, call it a genie I guess, and then you would basically just have the chart show you what is going wrong and the machines that are going wrong, or maybe a particular service that's going wrong, a particular KPI that's in violation and you could just go there and figure out what's-- >> Yeah, the genie in the bottle. >> That's right (crosstalk) >> So final question before we go. What's it like working for VMware start-up culture. You raised a lot of money doing your so crunch based reports. VMware's cutting edge, they're a part with Amazon, bit turn around there, what's it like there? >> It's a very large company obviously, but they're, obviously as with everything, there's always some good points and bad points. I'll focus on the good. So the good things are there's just a lot of people, very smart people at VMware. They've worked on the problem of virtualization which was, as a computer scientist, I just thought, that's just so hard. How do you run it like the matrix, right, it's kind of like and a lot of very smart people there. A lot of the stuff that we're actually launching includes components that were built inside VMware based on their expertise over the years and we're just able to pull, it's just as I said, a lot of fun toys and how do we connect all of that together and just do an even better job than what we could have been as we were independent. >> Well congratulations on the acquisition. VMware's got the radio event we've covered. We were there, you got a lot of engineers, a lot of great scientists so congratulations. >> Thank you so much. >> Great, Clement thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you so much Rebecca. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. We will have more from AWS re:Invent coming up in just a little bit. (light electronic music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Euope 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing foundation and eco-system partners. >> Welcome back to the Fira here in Barcelona, Spain. This is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days of coverage is Corey Quinn, and we're excited to have on the program a first time guest, but a company that we've known for quite a while, Daniel Lopez Ridruejo, who's the CEO and co-founder of Bitnami. Just announced recently that Bitnami is being acquired by VMware. Daniel, thanks so much for joining us and congratulations to you and the team on the 'exit' as it were. >> Thank you very much, gracias. It's an honor to be here. >> Yeah so we had Erica Brescia who's the co-founder of yours on theCUBE seven years ago. Back then I was trying to figure out exactly what Bitnami was and where it fit in this whole world. Maybe you can just bring us up to speed for those that maybe don't know, and there's all these people in the enterprise space that might not know your community that the dev space knows real well, as to bring us back the who and the why of Bitnami >> Yeah Erica is my co-founder and we have been building this together over the years. It has been quite a fair ride and, we started Bitnami as an offshoot of our previous company called Bedrock in which we made software easy to install. And then we realized that a lot of what people wanted to make easy to install on Linux was Open Source software, so we started working with companies like MySQL and SugarCRM, Splunk really early on when they were only four or five people, and over time we decided to do the same thing as an Open Source project for all those other tools and projects that didn't have a way to make them easy to install. We started as Bitnami.org, we wanted to emphasize that it was an Open Source project, was never going to be a company, and it didn't turn out that way. >> All right so, we got a lot of things to cover, but help us connect the dots as to those early you know, dot org, it wasn't a company, to a company having the dev space to, we're starting down the path towards the enterprise, which seemed to be a natural fit as to what happened today. >> Yeah so going back to your original question of why we wanted to make, was always being driven. There is all this marvelous Open Source software out there that is super difficult to use for a great majority of people, and we just wanted to lower the barrier to make it easy to use, and that's what got it started. We never expected the success. It turns out we went from a hundred, to a thousand, to ten thousand to hundreds of thousands of downloads, and you know, we're super popular with developers. We have literally millions of developers using Bitnami, and as part of that evolution, we started working with the cloud providers. We drive a significant percentage of usage for Amazon, for Google, for Microsoft, that's what makes it valuable to those cloud vendors, and as the next stage of the company, we wanted to go directly to the enterprises in which we already have a lot of developers in those same enterprises, but when you go move to production, you know that it's a lot of red tape, a lot of gates that you have to go about compliance and security, and that's where we're taking the company to. >> Nine, ten years ago I stumbled over you, over your company or I guess project at that time, and it was the second best way I ever found to run WordPress. The first of course is, don't run WordPress. I'm very serious. Don't run WordPress. And I'm curious now, with the acquisition of Bitnami, what is the longer-term vision for how this fits into a more cloud-native landscape. Is it continuing to just be the, well not just but, is it continuing to be the application you get from a catalog and it's up and running, is their a containerized story, is there something else I'm not seeing? >> No, that's the core of Bitnami, and that will continue to do that. What has evolved over time is that initially you could download an installer and run it on your Mac. And then we were one of the first early adapters of AWS, so we created all these AMIs and when, you know, people were thinking that we were crazy, that Amazon was a company that sold books, but you know, what were we doing? We kind of saw where it was going early on. And then as Kubernetes came along, we were really, really early there as well, and we were one of the early partners of these around Helm. We provided a lot of the Helm charts. Right now we may have dabbled a little bit on Serverless, So whatever comes next, we will be there and our goal continues to be the same thing, which is to make awesome software available to everyone. So independently of the underlying platform, that's where we're focusing, so, the core mission is not changing, we're just omitting that, and going after the enterprise, more red hat enterprise Linux, you know, more OpenShift, more multi tier, high availabilty, more production features. >> All right so, you talk about all those pieces, and you talk about linux and everything there. I want you help connect, how does that tie into VMware and what you see them doing today because, sure Linux has been something that could live on a hypervisor for a long time, but in many ways there's been struggles in competition between VMware and them and the Linux community in the past, but, you know, we're starting to see some of that change and maybe this helps accelerate some of that change. >> Yeah I think there is a couple of companies, Microsoft and VMware, that were completely different companies than five years ago and probably the decision would have been different for us like five years ago versus what the company is today and where they're going. For us VMware is, the holy grail of acquisition is 2 plus 2 equals five, and that's hardly the, you know, there's a lot of acquisitions that don't go that way. For us it was a very thought out decision and it was, I think it was clear for us in the sense that we have a very big footprint with developers, they own enterprise IT, we wanted to go enterprise, they wanted to go into developers, they understand Open Source, they understand distributed teams, yeah. >> Maybe, I'd love to hear your insight as to that developer community, because when I walk around the show floor, you know, there was that struggle between the enterprise and the developers, and now, the storage world, we need to get CI/CD and all these things and they're like "uh, we don't know how to get there" . And over the last few years, it seems there's been a blurring of the lines, and more enterprise is embracing it, Open Source is a big piece of that, so is it, as you said, five years ago this wouldn't have happened, but now it feels like we're ready for that next step of the curve. >> Correct. And all of that is because of this standardization, that Kubernetes is allowing, you can standardize business practices, and your seeing a consolidation, the CI/CD wall. And it's like, things that used to be very exotic now is business as usual. And it's a parallel, you know, I started using Linux in '93, when there was not even a concept of a Linux distribution, you have to do all these things just to get a prompt, but over time people have standardized, you know I remember there were like, 50 or 60 Linux distributions; StagWare, SLS. And eventually, everybody converged on Red Hat enterprise Linux. I think something similar is going to happen, we're just midway there, in which you will not have KubeCon because Kubernetes will be something transparent that is boring. So, we're not there yet, but at some point Kubernetes will be boring and there will be layers on top of that where all the action is. Or will be. >> From my perspective, coming from a small startup background, it seemed to me that VMware was always one of those stodgy, boring companies I didn't have much time for and lately there've been a series of high profile acquisitions, Heptio, Wavefront, CloudFront and now Bitnami, and it's really changing, almost without me noticing, my entire perception of their place in the modern evolving cloud ecosystem. >> I think so, and that's one of the things that attracted us and I talked to Victoria about it, get to spend a bit of time with the CEO, with the people at the high level. For us it was very important. But again, one thing we haven't mentioned is that, for the most part we have been bootstrapped. We have been profitable, we only took a little money from Ycombinator when we were already profitable. So we have choices. Sometimes our BC funded peers don't have that choice, so it was a very meditated decision, and for me for these kind of acquisitions, when a much bigger company joins forces with a smaller company, the strategies need to be aligned. And to me, VMware realized that the world, a few years ago, that the world is going to be moved to cloud, the world is going to go towards Kubernetes and containers. And the acquisition of Heptio, the acquisition of CloudHealth, told us that they're serious about that and that we can fit right in and take advantage of that transformation they are going. And so far it's working really, really, really well and that's part of what made us decide to go in this direction. >> Yeah Daniel, what can you tell us about things, once this actually does close, what will that mean for the brand? What about relationships with, you mentioned Heptio? But not only Heptio, Pivotal obvously is a big player in this space. How does all of that line up? >> With Heptio and other units like the marketplace's other groups, we were already working with them before the acquisition, with Heptio, with ksonnet and a bunch of other initiatives. We're just going to double down on that, and they want to keep Bitnami, they want to keep the brand, they want to keep the team. If anything we're going to get more resources, and again, that was the fact that they didn't want to touch something that is working. We have been partners for, I think, seven or eight years. We have gotten to know each other over that time and built that trust that is needed. In a way nothing is going to change. We're going to have the same team doing the same things, we're just going to have more access to their userbase. Which is what we're going to do. We started down this path because we were raising money to build an enterprise sales force, and at some point we decided, okay, this doesn't make sense. We're going to give away all this chunk of the company to get access to the enterprise, or to build a sales force to get access to the enterprise, when we can be part of VMware and get that for free. >> You've mentioned a fair bit about what's going to change as far as you getting exposure to new customers, effectively broadening into additional markets. What does this mean for your existing customers who are, in some cases, whenever you're a customer of a small-ish company, and there's an acquisition, it sometimes is natural to be a little concerned of, do I need to find a new vendor? Do I need to find a new provider? And frankly, there's nothing else like you that I've ever seen on the market. >> No, that's a really good question. For us, what is a little bit unique is we have millions of users, but we only have a handful of customers. So our customers are AWS, Google, Microsoft, Oracle. So it was very important; VMware is already a vendor to all of these; and so far everybody is going to stay and we're just going to continue and deepen the relationship. And that's one of the things that made this attractive. So for customers, nothing is going to change. And we're just going to continue to deepen those relationships. And again, that was important. Had we gone through some of the other options there would have been a lot of very outward conversations to have and that is not the case. >> Yeah Daniel, how about the developer community itself. It's just had millions of downloads out there. We understand how some of the reaction can be. >> Yeah, everybody is like, is VMware going to be the evil company that's going to touch that? And I think so far the feedback has been extremely positive, including even Hacker News, right, which is shocking. >> And those people don't like anything. >> I've been high Hacker News since the very beginning and it can be harsh. So it was something I was monitoring how people. And so far it has been very positive and that's only not a testimony how much people like Bitnami but also again, VMware acquire Heptio and everything's great. We talk to a lot of the people at Heptio, you know, hey how are things going? How has it been? And everybody loved it there, so for us it was something that gave us a lot of reassurance that all these other companies with a lot of Open Source DNA were being successful there and gave us reassurance. Time will tell. We'll see one year from now where we are, but so far everybody that we have talked to, all the conversations have been great. >> So Daniel you have a very interesting viewpoint on this whole ecosystem, we work with all the cloud providers. Any commentary you'd give of, you talk about that midway point of maturity? Where do you see things today, where do you see them going? What do we need to fix as an industry? >> Well it's very difficult to predict where things are going I just think that at this point it's very safe to say that it's going to be a multi-cloud war. That was not like three, four years ago. It seemed like it could be a repeat of the '90s in which Microsoft own ninety-something percent of the market share. And there was a lot of things that didn't make sense. Right now at least Amazon, plus a bunch of other clouds, are viable, and if anything they are growing. So a lot of companies like HashiCorp, like VMware. Companies that support this multi-cloud environment, not all of them, but all of them are very well positioned to thrive because it's not going to change any time soon. The other thing I think that is safe to assume is, we are going to have more artifacts than ever, so companies like Artifactory, I think they will do well. As any companies have to do to do with security. We're going to have more security issues, not less. But in the long term that's as much as I can predict. >> All right, well, Daniel, thank you so much. Congratulations again, and we look forward to seeing you at VMworld. Where we'll have theCUBE there. It'll actually be our tenth year being at Vmworld. >> Awesome >> So we're excited and always happy to talk to, especially the startups some great news here. For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks as always for watching theCUBE.

(upbeat techno music) >> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018, brought to you by VMware and it's eco-system partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three of three days of coverage, VMworld 2018 here in Las Vegas, CUBE wall-to-wall coverage, 94 interviews, two sets, our ninth year covering VMworld, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stuart Miniman on this segment, our next guest is Milin Desai, who is the Vice President and general manager of Cloud Services at VMware, formerly driving the NSX business, been there for multiple years, eight years. Great to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So you've seen the evolution, you've been there, you've been in the boat. NSX, on a good path, doing really well, cloud services, very clear visibility on what strategy is. >> Mm-hmm. >> Private and public, hybrid multi-cloud, validated by the leader AWS and Andy Jassy, again for the second year. So pretty clear visibility at least on what the landscape looks like. >> Mm-hmm. Multiple clouds, software driving all the value. What's the cloud services piece that you're running now? Take a minute to explain what the landscape looks like, what's your charter, what are you trying to do, and what's happening with news and announcements? >> Sure, so about two years back we started on this journey around cloud services. And the premise was that, increasingly, there are two trends taking place which is; SaaS delivered experiences for on prem. So how can we deliver SaaS experiences on prem? As well as the partnership with, you know AWS for VMware cloud on AWS. So the two things started coming together both in terms of a product opportunity, which is VMware cloud AWS. But overall delivering our capabilities as SaaS, both hybrid as well as in the public clouds. So cloud services is a portfolio that delivers VMware services from management, to security, to operations, as SaaS services to the private cloud as well as to the public cloud. >> Tom Corn, the Senior Vice President of general security projects, was just on theCUBE today as well before you came on. He said, I asked him for a prediction and I'll ask you at the end too, for a 2019 prediction, but he said, "I see the conversation starting to be "security as a service someday," and he's kind of like connecting the dots a bit. But that proves the point it's a SAS business model. The services need to be consumable and scalable. This is a key design criteria and a product guiding principal right, for you guys? >> Yes, So increasingly SaaS makes it easy. The value benefits on that is I don't need to operate, it just works and I can get the value out of what we are delivering. And that's really what's driving the adoption of SaaS. It's easy to use, it gets you to outcomes quicker, and I don't need to worry about the management elements of that and so whether it's you take our updates to cloud management, we announced Cloud Assembly, Service Broker, and Code Stream, all delivered as SaaS to our hybrid infrastructure as well as if you want to deploy workloads in AWS or Azure, same thing. AppDefense, Tom's product, is delivered as a SaaS service. VMC on AWS is a managed SaaS service. So you're seeing that come together as VMware. The idea is can we bring that experience on prem as well as in the hybrid cloud? >> Yeah, Milin really interesting topic because often what gets lost when we're talking about multi cloud is what really matters, is applications and the data that sits on top of it. Maybe walk through a little bit, my on premises vs my SASified stuff vs the cloud native and PKS. How much of the business is driven from all of these pieces? >> So the majority of our business right now, is on premise software. Where customers are building and operating the infrastructure with our software. Now the first evolution into SAS was actually with our service providers, who are using the subscription model to deliver VMware as a service to their end customers. And then the second iteration of that is VMware cloud on AWS, which is growing really well. Both in terms of adoption as well of number of customers and now you are seeing the next evolution. So I would say from a numbers standpoint it's low, but in terms of number of customers adopting it, that number is high. So whether it's cloud operations with Wavefront or the whole automations suite that was launched, AppDefense. We are starting to see the shift to SAS but I would say the majority of our customers are on on prem software with VMware cloud foundation which includes NSX, and a visualized management portfolio which has been driving the majority of the revenue. >> I got to ask you about NSX relative to the cloud services because one of the things we've been pontificating and analyzing is how multi cloud is really going to work and we always try to compare and contrast to networking because Stu and I love networking and storage and some of the infrastructure stuff but if you go back into the evolution of TCPIP and what that did for the industry and Gelsinger likes to talk about this too, is NSX the kind of enabler that TCPIP was? TCP and then you had IP, created a lot of value, in inter-networking. What does the customer challenge look like when you're doing multi-cloud? It's not trivial it's hard to do. Is there a inter-operability framework, is it NSX? What could that be? >> Great question. I think as we go from private, to public, to the edge the virtual cloud network is what connects it all together and so definitely from within the data center with now the Velo Cloud acquisition the WAN, and then layering it with analytics and observability with visualized network insight, the portfolio of NSX allows you to connect these disparate data islands and operate very seamlessly, in this hybrid cloud world. Now the same construct applies, when you go native public cloud, where you can connect into AWS or an Azure and that's where, again the Velo Cloud acquisition alongside how NSX is extending its security policy, into AWS and Azure so that you can get the same security posture on prem, at the Edge, in VMC on AWS, with our VCP providers, as well as Native AWS and native Azure. So definitely NSX is that connective tissue, that's why we call it the Virtual Cloud Network, connects the Hybrid Cloud to the Multi Cloud. >> Seamlessly? >> Seamlessly. >> One of the feedbacks I get from users is, you know multi-cloud is challenging. There's that big elephant, how do I get my arms around all of the pieces where'll my data lives? Maybe give us an update there. I did have a chat with Joe Kinsella on theCUBE yesterday. So if CloudHealth Technologies fits into that overall cloud management piece, I'm sure it does, and you can give a little bit of guidance? I'd like to understand how that fits. >> Yes, you know we talked a lot about SAS and delivering VMware services as SAS to vSphere customers but there's this other world where people are going native AWS, native Azure, native GCP. The interesting thing I tell folks is it's very easy to consume cloud but as you start consuming it, you start dealing with tens of thousands of objects, across multiple projects, hundreds of projects across thousands of users. And when you start looking at the problem statements, same things, visibility, lack of visibility, resource management, you tend to over provision to in the cloud, right? By now you're paying by the drip so there's a definite impact to the bottom line. End to end observability and then configuration compliance. Think about this, you're operating at 10X in terms of changes, the chances of making a configuration mistake like leaving an S3 bucket open, are quite high. >> We've seen examples of that, too. >> Exactly, many a CIO have been fired because of that issue. So what we've been seeing with our customers is this has become a data problem, right? So the acquisition of CloudHealth allows us to essentially provide a platform that has that data, and then deliver to our customers in the native cloud, visibility, I say cost management so using reserved instances over on demand, resource management, hey your old provision on your elastic block storage we can reduce the storage capacity and save money. I can optimize RDS better. Sequel right sizing in Azure, so resource management becomes very interesting. Returns on a typical customer with CloudHealth are upwards of 60%. When you take that into consideration with real time security configuration, Secure State was just announced in beta, this week so real time security configuration. When that mistake happens with an S3 bucket being open? Sub 10 seconds we will notify the user that there is a mis-configuration in the cloud, please go fix it. >> Yeah, I'm curious, one of the other challenges is when I have, especially using lots of different SAS providers, public cloud, private cloud, data protection is a big challenge there. I know VMware has a lot of ecosystem partners, one of the hottest things over the couple years. Is that primarily an ecosystem play? How does VMware position there? >> Yeah so in the hybrid cloud world, like you said we have a very strong ecosystem, multiple vendors here exhibiting, there will be some default elements that we bring into vSAN to help kind of the basics of data, you know back up and management but we will definitely continue to partner with our ecosystem when it comes to an aggregate stack of data management but there will be pockets of just simple back up capabilities that you'll start seeing in vSAN, I think we announced the beta of that this week. >> Talk about your organization, do the general managers, do you have a profit loss responsibility so do you have revenue? >> Yes. >> Talk about the team, how you guys are set up. How big is the team? What's the focus? >> Our team, there's two elements to my team. One is my team drives cloud service across VMware so there are folks developing services themselves. The size of the team is now 70 strong across product, marketing and engineering. And then I also work with my counterparts like Mark Lohmeyer, AJ Singh who are building services on our common platform, right? And it's an aggregate to the customer, they come to cloud.vmware.com they federate their enterprise identity, they log in, they see our catalog. It's like a Netflix-like catalog. You can subscribe to it, you get a common experience in terms of billing and essentially start using the services. So it's not only what my team builds but an aggregate what VMware is building and offering to our end users. >> And what go to market do you have? Which products are you doing that go to market for? >> It's all of our SAS based cloud services. We collectively drive the go to market for that as a team working with our corporate marketing team. >> Awesome. >> Yep. >> So that would be a combination of VMware on AWS, AppDefense, now Secure State, Wavefront, and very soon CloudHealth. >> Yeah, a lot of pressure. (laughing) >> Do the SAS product share, do they live in like the AWS marketplace, IBM, you know DOC or what? Where can they get all of them? >> Today you go to cloud.vmare.com and subscribe to them. Certain offers are starting to get into AWS Marketplace, so CloudHealth is actually in the AWS marketplace. >> Sure, sure. >> And we are looking at Wavefront, which is a hidden jewel in our portfolio is also we are thinking about how can get it into the respective marketplaces of Azure, GCP, and others. But today if you want to access any of these services, you simply go and trial it by just going to our website and starting a trial. >> So they've given you all the new stuff, make it happen. AWS, VMware, AWS, vice versa. RDS on premises, you doing that as well? >> Yes. RDS on vSphere, since the announce we've had phenomenal conversations over here. >> Yeah, it's really exciting, I think people don't understand how big this is. >> John, I had a phenomenal conversation with Yanbing and Christos from the storage and availability business who just really broke down how all of that worked in detail. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> The customer interest is high. Someone asked me, why RDS? And they said it's such a hard problem and that was my point exactly, there is such a pain when it comes to managing databases and just like everything else, we started off the conversation, customers want a managed service. They don't want to deal with the intricacies of managing databases, they just want the outcomes from how they access databases. Amazon has solved it very elegantly with RDS, it's one of their most popular services. Why not bring it on prem? So that's been a great engineering partnership we are driving with them, and I'm really excited to bring it to market, shortly. >> Well we're looking forward to keeping in touch, we wanted to actually follow up with you on that. It's a story we're going to be following, certainly developing, it's big news, we love it. Thanks for coming on and spending the time. I got to get you to put a prediction out there for 2019. What do you see happening in 2019 that we're going to be talking about next year at VMworld? Personal prediction, could be a VMware prediction. You've seen a lot of what's going on with NSX, you see what's going on in the big picture, wholistically what is the prediction for 2019? >> It might be a boring prediction, but I fundamentally believe this notion of hybrid being bi-directional in nature. I think you'll see more of that. Even Google announced GKE on vSphere, as an example. So I think you will see more of that come through and it won't be a one way destination conversation that we keep having. And you will see VMware truly be a multicloud company. It won't matter if you're deploying the application in the native cloud, or in a vSphere based cloud. We will help the customer where they land the application. My firm belief is next year when we are here, we'll be talking about stories about how we are helping scale customers in Azure and AWS and GCP on one end, and about how we brought cloud on prem with services like RDS. >> Final question, I'm going to put you on the spot. What do you think is the biggest disruptive enabler for the next 10 years in this bi-directional multi cloud world? Can you point to one this that says, that's going to be the disruptive enabler for the next 10 to 20 years? Is there something out there you can point to, trend, technology, the standard? >> So the way I think about the world is a little bit differently in terms of I truly believe that we are getting inundated by data. I'm not talking about the data that you store in terms of running your business but in terms of the metadata that you run your operations and your infrastructure with. And I believe that the layer that will control that portion, the metadata of infrastructure and applications, we have not even begun to understand where that goes and then you apply AI and ML techniques to that? The idea of, I'll throw a term around here, self driving data centers and self optimizing applications I get really excited but it all begins with that data layer. And we are starting to put the beginning signs with CloudHealth, our private cloud assets to start that process. I'm really excited about how AI/ML meets that data layer to achieve those outcomes. >> It automates IT operations, sounds like automation's coming. Milin, thanks for coming on. Milin Desai, he's the vice president general manager of VMware's cloud services. The hottest area, it's emerging, it's got a lot of attention. We'll be following it, of course, on siliconANGLE and Wikibon and theCUBE. We're day three coverage here in the broadcast booth in Las Vegas in the VM village. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, we're here at VMworld 2018. You're watching theCUBE. Two sets, three days, over 95 guests. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost is Joep Piscaer, and we've got a little bit of news to talk about. Lots of announcements made at the show. One of them is that VMware has purchased the intent to acquire Boston-based CloudHealth Technologies and I am thrilled to have back on the program, I've had him in my Boston-area studio and seen at lots of shows, Joe Kinsella, who's the founder and CTO of CloudHealth. >> Yes, you got it. Good to see you again, Stu, good to see you, Joep. >> Absolutely. >> Just to get it out of the way, the Boston Business Journal says for about 500 million. I know you can't comment on the dollars, but this is a big deal. 200 person company, as I said, Boston-based, right down the road from us. Heck, I'll stop at, your new headquarters is opening on Thursday, which I'm stopping at on the way back from the airport. Congratulations, first of all, and tell us what's the feeling like of your firm? >> It is exciting. We certainly weren't looking to get acquired, so as you know, we raised a fairly large D round last year and we were focused on building a big public company and what we found along the way of talking about a partnership with VMware was it was just a lot of synergy. Both vision, strategy, as well as cultural synergies. I think somewhere along the way we realized this made a lot of sense, so it is a big deal, and we're very excited about it. >> Awesome, Joe, one thing I like, I see you and your company at cloud shows. >> Yes. >> This is where we have, one of the things that excited me this week is we talk about, I'm a networking guy, talk about the networking, they're talking about multi-cloud the way that Nicira was pre-acquisition. VMware talking a lot more about multi-cloud. They had Amazon up on stage, and I think the acquisition of CloudHealth Technologies is, how does VMware become more of a cloud first? For people that don't know CloudHealth Technology, tell us a little about the origin, your founding, and where you play in the ecosystem? How much of a part is VMware today versus everything else? >> Without a doubt. I founded the company six years ago and it was, I was an early pioneer in the public clouds and the 2010-2011 timeframe I was building out large-scale public cloud infrastructure. Sounds a lot less impressive when I give you the numbers now, but then it was very impressive, and in the process of doing that just realized the incredible complexity that you had to confront to actually be successful in the public cloud. Both complexity of deploying and managing efficiently, that infrastructure, but also the complexity of all the tools that surround that management. So I set out with CloudHealth to build a single SaaS platform that customers could use to, what today you might call build out a cloud center of excellence, is kind of the terminology. Which is to have one central platform where you can centralize and distribute cost management, security compliance as well as proactive governance. All the way to integrating back into your back office and your service desk and your incident management. Make the cloud just part of how you deliver your business services. That was the journey six years ago, and it's been a tremendous journey to-date. >> You were definitely a pioneer in this, so congrats what you done. Cause I remember six years ago, come on, cloud was simple, I swipe a credit card and we'll just do this and everything. Now, everybody kind of understands not only cloud but especially multi-cloud, getting my arms around how I manage all this environment. Maybe touch on how does multi-cloud fit into this whole discussion and what does CloudHealth do with VMware today versus everything else? >> When I started the company, multi-cloud was part of the vision, but let's be honest, there weren't a lot of companies really doing multi-cloud. Usually, at best, especially in the enterprise, if an enterprise was even doing cloud they were choosing a single cloud provider. They really weren't trying to actually have multiple providers. I think what's happened is in the last 24 months is enterprises went from being a single cloud to pervasive multi-cloud, is what I call it, which is their portfolio now includes dozens of SaaS products, it includes multiple public cloud providers, it includes multiple private cloud providers, and it's just a very complex heterogeneous portfolio they're managing. We were built for that. It's finally come true and I think what it does is if you think what you need to be successful in that environment, if you're going to build out a cloud center of excellence across a pervasively heterogeneous environment, you need a single platform that does that for you. Today, our product supports Amazon, Google, Azure, and it also supports VMware, so it integrates directly into vSphere, does cost management, does inventory, visibility, as well as migration recommendations to and from multiple different public clouds. It's a great synergy between what it is that VMware does across its rich, robust portfolio and CloudHealth. >> Talk a little about the new possibilities you're now opening up, being acquired by VMware. What does that mean for that multi-cloud strategy? >> I think Pat touched on it in his keynote, and I thought he did a masterful job of describing how CloudHealth the brand will be kind of a core brand of VMware and this will be a centerpiece property across integrating across various different properties across their SaaS portfolio. But I also think VMware's very aware that there's a lot of choices that customers want. They may want to choose different products for log managing, configuration management, for application performance management, and I think we're going to continue to provide that choice to customers so that it won't be just a VMware-centric product. But at the same time, you look at the richnesses of VMware portfolio, which is, you look at what they do on-premise and you look at what they do around cost management inside the data center. You look at VMware on AWS as an offering. There's just huge potential synergies between what we do and how we can extend our value proposition into those areas much faster as part of VMware. As the founder of the company, what excited me about this was this was not taking me away from my vision, it was an opportunity to accelerate my vision, which is really what kind of got me there to this idea that we would be acquired. >> How do you think your product will help VMware, for instance in the VMware cloud on AWS. Do you think you'll integrate on that level to help VMware accelerate their proposition as well? >> Yes, I believe, I'm actually very excited about VMware and AWS because I think we all know that VMware's been optimizing its stack for so many years. There's incredible efficiencies that have been built in to it that I would like to bring up to a business perspective so that our customers can understand them and take advantage of them in an easier way. I think there's great potential there. I probably don't want to get over my skies too far here on this one, but I do think it's one of the things you'll see early post-close of this deal. >> Joe, I think the timing's really good. If this acquisition had happened two years ago, we'd be talking about vCloud Air. My joke would be to say when does the update come that says all migration should push you to VMware at 99.8% of the time? (Joep and Joe laughing) VMware, it's not only AWS. We saw the VMware presence at the Google show. >> Yeah. >> You're going to do Google Cloud Show and they're trying to position themselves more in this multi-cloud world, which is where your company sits. Joe, what advice do you give to companies that, software companies out there, how do they help customers in this multi-cloud work? It's a big environment. You help with a bunch of things, but there's licensing, there's all sorts of variability out there. I say it's this giant elephant there and you might have a main course of it, but there's lots of partners you need to work with and customers have the paradox of choice out there, so how do you as a software company be successful in this space? >> I think, myself as a software company or as our customers? >> What advice to you give to your peers out there and if you were giving Pat advice as to how do we be even more successful as a multi-cloud player? >> I think their strategy is very mature. That was one of the things that got me excited about it, which is, I think there was a time at which I think companies were very territorial about how they approached the pervasive heterogeneity that we're entering now, and I think being open in the way that they are, that all of the properties that customers may choose may not be a single vendor. There's going to be lots of different vendors and lots of different choices and freedom of choice, I think, is kind of one of the fundamental tenants of a successful strategy at this point in time. I would just highly encourage that for everyone which is I think the old world is the old world, now. We've entered a new frontier, we have to think differently, we have to act differently. I think what I really love about what Pat's doing is he's harnessing the DNA and the strength of VMware, which is just, they've been a tremendous provider of great software for two decades and kind of bringing it into the next frontier of cloud. I think they've got a lot to bring that we have not seen yet. That we're going to see over the next few years. I just hope to be a part of that. >> You mentioned the new frontier. VMware's still somewhere in between the old frontier and the new, so one of the problems we've seen in the past is VMware and its relation with the service provider world. What do you think you'll add to that mix to help service providers maybe move from the old world into that new world as well? >> Now, Joep, is that, that feels like a fastball down the middle. (all laughing) I just have to tell you. The relationship with VMware started 18 months ago. It started with an SVP at VMware and was all about partners. One of the things you might not see externally from CloudHealth is that there's really two products in CloudHealth. There's our direct product that we deliver to enterprises and SMB, and then there's a separate product that we sell to service providers and it enables them to deliver managed services to their customers on top of the cloud. We built it in a way where the products are really one product that actually are sold as two separate products. I think what we're going to bring is a real strong opportunity for partners across VMware, and that's why the opportunity, the business relationship started as a potential partnership around partners and eventually evolved into where we're at today. We're excited for that. I tell people that the cloud is the single greatest threat and the single greatest opportunity for partners. The difference between which one you're going to experience over the next few years is whether or not you can figure out how to harness the disruptive potential of the cloud. >> Sounds like I've got a question for Ajay Patel tomorrow when I interview him towards the end of the show. (laughing) Because yeah, it's service providers there. I know you can't talk a lot, but give us roadmap. What sort of things, is it like, I see NSX being pervasive. Are there integrations today? Do you have visibility in CloudHealth? Is that something from the networking side that you do or would tie into? I think back, I've been in this long enough, when EMC bought VMware it was here's all the cool stuff we could do and I was in engineering like oh my God, it's going to take us five or six years to do most of this stuff. >> Yes. >> It got done, but there's long, hard engineering work. 18 months, what can you talk about that's been done and give us a little bit of what should we be looking for? >> NSX is tremendous offering and I think what you see is, I'm really looking at this as more like tier one, two, and three integrations. Tier one I think you're going to see more around the cloud properties. Probably things like VMware on AWS and you'll see the SaaS products such as Wavefront and things like that. I think there's a natural extension and a natural movement and a natural value proposition we can bring on top of those. I think tier two you'll probably see a lot more hybrid, where you're going to see us kind of take advantage of that rich portfolio in VMware and extend it and add value on top of it to our customers. I think tier 3 I'll leave quiet for now, but I think there's some really amazing potential of what it is that we can do together based on what I'm seeing exist in VMware and things that maybe are being built that are not yet public. I think there's some really great potential of what we can bring to the market around how they can manage their multi-cloud portfolios in to the future. >> Joe, last thing I wanted to ask you. Boston-based company. VMware had a strong presence in the Boston area. I know a lot of people near Cambridge facility but talk about the tech scene in Boston, being a founder, you got a new headquarters, getting acquired, I'm a bit of a homer, supporting people so that I don't necessarily have to travel across the country or across the world. Give us your viewpoint on the Boston area these days. >> You know this, which is it is incredibly vibrant, what's happening in Boston, which is the businesses being built, the entrepreneurs that are there, the entire ecosystem is working at a pace I have not seen in over two decades. They're building real meaningful businesses. When you actually lift up the cover and you look at what these entrepreneurs are building, it's going to be an important tech scene for decades to come based on just what I'm seeing happen today. I look today and a lot of people like to give the credit to the person who founded the company. There's thousands of people who touched this business. Just including the tremendous effort from every person who joined this company. There's been people like yourself and people who've added value in many, countless ways along the way. It all came, primarily, from a Boston community that was there to support me and my company as we grew up in the Boston tech scene. I've been blessed to actually be surrounded by great people in one of the best cities in the world. >> Joe, congratulations again. >> Thank you. >> If you don't know, they even have superhero stickers of this guy that they give out at conferences. (laughing) >> Joe Kinsella, CloudHealth Technologies, congratulations to you. >> Thank you. >> I'm looking forward to seeing the grand opening back in Boston when I fly back after the show. For you Piscaer, I'm Stu Miniman, thanks so much for joining us on theCUBE. Be back with lots more. >> Thank you. (electronic tones)

(soft music) - [Narrator] Live CUBE coverage at VMworld 2018 continues in a moment. Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. - Hello everyone, and welcome to back to theCUBE, live coverage here in Las Vegas with VMworld 2018. This is our three days of exclusive wall-to-wall coverage, two sets, it's our ninth year covering VMworld, when Dave and I started theCUBE nine years ago, Paul Maritz was the CEO, he actually got referenced on stage by Pat Gelsinger. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, our next guest Ray O'Farrel, CTO, Chief Technology Officer at VMware, keynote today on stage with Pat; great to see you again, thanks for coming on. - Really good to see you guys again. - So, reaction from the keynote was very positive. Probably, from a content standpoint, probably one of the most meatiest content pieces I've seen, mega news, serious announcement with Amazon, with Andy Jassy coming on stage releasing the Relational Database Service, RDS, on VMware, on-premises. Monster news. That is like, I don't think the world has yet felt the reverb for this thing yet. - But that was only one of the many stories. - [John] That was just one, that was just like (makes explosion noise). And then the CloudHealth acquisition, and you had tons of demos, pretty intense. - [Ray] Well, it's been- - Summarize what you did (laughs) in ten seconds. - Summarize all of that. So, you know, the key thing that we wanted to achieve with the keynote was obviously to make sure Pat drives the the vision that VMware has and, a lot of focus on that was focused on multi-cloud, this view of the world that you've now got multiple clouds emerging. And you know one of our key rules is to make sure that enterprises are able to work across all of those, networking, how we do management, how we work across all of these, and CloudHealth is a key part of that, making it easier to use cloud, in particular multi-cloud. You know as the CTO I get the fun part of tryna you know let our customers know all the cool work that the engineering teams are doing, so one of the things we want to do is make sure we put a lot of good demos in there. The feedback we get from our customers at VMworld over and over again is they want to see demos, they want to know that stuff is real. You can take a look for instance at the hands on labs. I came in here on Saturday night, walked down there about 6:30 am on Sunday morning, and there was people lining up to go in there and use those labs. So what did we talk through? Broadly speaking we spoke to how you can use VMC on AWS, and the easy way it is to migrate vSphere applications onto vSphere on AWS; we had some new features there around live migration. The next thing we spoke about was around RDS itself and what this project is about. Broadly speaking, at its most basic, it allows you to take the RDS components from Amazon but run them in your data center. With all of the implications of that in terms of how your developers work and they build those applications. We spoke about Project Dimension, which is also around a now delivery as a service, a cloud experience, but again, at your infrastructure, whether it's at the edge or whether it's your data center. And, you know we spoke about what we're doing in blockchain, some opensource components that we're doing over there. New features of Workspace ONE, particularly around the relationship with Dell, and how that will now be combined with some of their laptops And, oh and of course, what we did with some of the Nvidia GPUs, demonstrating the ability to be able to run the most sophisticated AI workloads on a vSphere environment. And I suspect I forgot something in that list, but- - [John] You're going to have to hit the pillow tonight and have a good nap, and crash. - [Dave] Project Magma. - [Ray] Project Magma which is a very future looking concept around basically where we think AI and ML is going to be used to drive a lot of the automation moving forward. - [Dave] Self-driving data center, - Self-driving data center. - [Dave] I think you'd call it (John laughs) Are they coinin' a new term there? - No it's great, we can reuse an old term, and you know rebrand it. - Auto pilot. Put your data center on auto pilot. I want to just drill down on one, on the Amazon relationship, because that was obviously the height, big news in there what you're talking about is the depth of the relationship is deep on the partnership side. I want to, and you guys, you pointed that out, I want to amplify that, but I also want to ask you around the RDS demand. You know, talkin' to some of the Amazon sources, they tell me that the demand for this was very strong, over multiple years. So, first on the RDS, the demand, some of the customer feedback, this is not just you guys in a room goin' hey, let's just do this; it makes sense, but it's customer driven. - Yeah, when you look at what VMC on AWS actually is, it's creating this bridge between the on-prem and the private cloud, sorry, and the public cloud on Amazon. But, initially most of that is really an I as relationship, yes we can move workloads, yes we can move VMs, yes we can manage networking, but one of the key things you want from a public cloud or from cloud in general is access to services. So, as we went down that first part of saying we'll give you this basic infrastructure, very quickly customers began to ask for some other things, some other aspects of that, and that of course was services. So after lots of discussions around what are services, one, that are appropriate to be able to put into this new type environment, but which had to demand RDS certainly rode very quickly to the top of that. In the end almost everybody has some form of database in their application, and so it's a very likely start for us to make them. - So I remember when customers first started wanting to run, to virtualize Oracle, with of course VMware; and Oracle, didn't really embrace that early on. They would say things, their sales guys would scare the customers, we're not going to certify it, but then some of the customers said "Dam the torpedoes, we're going to do it." it actually worked great. - [Ray] Right. - Now, I don't know if that's 'cause, just that's the inherent nature of VMware, or you guys had to do some work, so my question is: two fold, was that just the inherent nature of VMware, and what did you have to do or will you have to do to get RDS running the way that customers want it, trust it on AWS, I mean on VMware? - So, in the case of the Oracle situation, we didn't have to do a whole lot to make that happen, we were virtualizing in x86, Oracle runs on x86, and so you got that basic pattern and mix. In the case of RDS, the actual database that you're running on your VMware infrastructure, our database is such as my SQL, we run an enormous amount of those databases already, so that core aspect of getting the database running is not something that's fundamentally difficult for us to do The challenging part is, how do bridge all the management aspects of that? The RDS components, the APIs, that a developer wants to use, and which are used to using over on, with RDS on AWS, so that's where the work is involved. Now by the way, you're implying that maybe this is a future thing, right? A lot of that work has already occurred, in fact, you know the demo you're seeing is not based on this is what we could do at some possible time in the future, it is actually tied to some very close future releases. - [Dave] So recovery, I'm going to be co-, that's future release of recovery and all the things, if something goes wrong, I'm going to be comfortable as a customer that - [Ray] Correct, correct. - You're going to be backed. - Some of those things we still need to work true, because there's tons of features that you can begin to add onto this, disaster recovery, backup, all of those sort of things, and they're not all going to be there on day one, but you can expect us to continue to add all of that. - [Dave] And you'll have all of those? - Correct. - Now the other question I got to ask you is about migration. When I hear the term migration I go, ugh, you know IT practitioners they tighten up, but what I heard on stage today is we're going to make this really easy. But moving data, help me square that circle, Ray, because, you know data, people say data has gravity, speed of light, network bandwidth, proximity. What's the secret sauce that enables you guys to solve those problems? - So the core secret sauce there is if you're virtualized on VMware on-premise, and you're using VMC on AWS, the basic unit of execution is still that virtual machine, and that virtual machine encapsulates the storage, the networking, everything associated with that box, right? So virtual machines have that very core strength of encapsulating not just the application, or some aspect of the, even some aspect of a minimal piece of the operating system, it encapsulates everything which is tied into that box almost on a physical level. So when you say I'm going to move a virtual machine, you're moving the disk, you're moving the storage, you're doing all of those things. So now think of a database running in a virtual machine, it might not even be the applications, just the database, we're able to capture that and represent that as we moved the virtual machine, you're moving all of that as well. Now there's two aspects of that, one of them is moving the underlying storage, the disk, which might well be even a a virtual disk on NFS or something like that, that's slower task, and that's why we leverage vSphere replication for that. And then the final live part which is, it's always the cool part, but is in fact in this stage maybe not the most difficult part, and what we're describing here is moving the actual memory contents of a given VM and flipping it over to VMC on AWS. - [Dave] Okay, so the key there, you've got the replication piece, and then you just unhook the original and then you're up and running. - Correct. Traditional vMotion relies that both servers access the same disk, so I don't need to move the disk, in this case I need to actually move the disk, and that's what the replication does. - [John] Ray, I want to ask you about something that Pat Gelsinger kind of cheesed out on the keynote. You could tell he had so much confidence, he wanted to expand on this one section but he got a couple digs in on it but, he did point out that the telco piece was very big; and only, he had a percent, I think 10% or 20% is virtualized when enterprises are like 80, I forget what now, I forget the exact numbers but his point was: huge opportunity in telco. What was he referring to there? - So, broadly speaking, if you look across most of you know where workloads run, you look at your IT infrastructure, you look at most of the public clouds and private clouds, they're virtualized to an enormous extent. Now when you go into the telco side of things and begin to look at what's happening at the edge, what's happening in the large telco infrastructure, both, a little bit from a cloud point of view, but also from everything to do from all the services and so on that the run; much of that is not virtualized. Now we actually made a very distinct focus on that over the last few years, we created a, basically a product line and a mini business unit, focused on telco, and that's where you see products like the virtual network functions, all of those technologies coming from. But actually the key product from that area is actually VIO, VMware Incubated Openstack, that's because the telco providers, to a large degree, attempted to leverage Openstack, had some challenges of getting the reliability, the stability you need on that, so what we did was merged the hypervisor, the infrastructure of VMware, with the Openstack management APIs, produced VMware Incubated Openstack, and the telco providers are very aggressively taking that on - [Dave] Now, I got to ask ya, whaddya got against capex? (Dave and Ray laugh) Pat said "You should never spend capex for DR again." it was basically- - [Ray] Yep. So I mean, I think the key part of that solution is it is now so, I will use the word easy, the technology behind it is not easy, but it easy for an end user to be able to say: "I can connect my application from a private infrastructure to a public infrastructure, in a way which is very highly connected using NSX, which is easily replicated, which is easily moved; therefore, I now have a ready ability to be able to create DR scenarios leveraging the public cloud." It is easier than it's ever been before, so instead of building another data center to do that, leverage VMC on AWS, leverage those type of technologies to be able to do that. - Ray, can you clarify, or amplify the VMware Cloud Foundations, how does, trials and tribulations over the years has evolved, it's now front and center in the conversation. How has that evolved from a product standpoint, tech, is it integration layer, how are you guys looking at that, what is the role of VMware Cloud Foundation, and what does it mean for your partners and customers? - Yeah, so I think that, your comments about it having a a kind of an early mixed reaction or so on is actually partially because a naming challenge that we called right? VMware Cloud Foundation is a unified story where we basically take the core elements of the SDDC and we combine in management infrastructure with that, which is actually called SDDC Manager, we don't necessarily spell that out but it's combined into that. But that's the key aspect of this, and then we build architectures based on that; so VxRack is based on VMware Cloud Foundation. The infrastructure which runs in Amazon which we manage as part of the VMC on AWS is built on VMware Cloud Foundation. So it's an architectural and, it's an architectural statement as opposed to a product statement. Where the confusion arises, we also have products that people call VMware Cloud Foundation. One of the ones they're with now as an instance of that is for instance VxRack, right? Which is basically a rack of infrastructure, think of it as a really big VxRail, but it's got all of this management software combined with it as well. And actually, you know your comment about that having some mixed reaction, some of that is because of our renaming that - [John] Renaming. - we've done along the way. But that is actually growing, and quite successful product at this stage, so. - It's been getting a lot of good buzz. - It's getting a lot of good buzz, yes. - [John] And the value is what? Times in market on, on solution building, or pull out, what's the main value? - In some way it goes back to the core value of hyper-converged infrastructure, somebody else is taking care of making sure that the software components all blend together; somebody else is making sure that there's any easy way to update and manage all of these things together, and in many cases, making sure it's well integrated with underlying hardware. So it's all around making it easy to get that basic SDDC up and running. - [Dave] So I got to question on your architecture, and I honestly don't even know how to ask it, but, maybe you can help me as a technologist; you've got, you know the VMware architecture which was developed initially decades ago, and now you've got all this microservices, and Kubernetes, and containers comin' into the fore, and you see the quote unquote modern architectures, speed of deployment, software release is much faster, much more cloud-like, cloud first. How do you go from you know the historical architecture to that level, how do you bridge the two worlds? - So, as with any company, as these transitions have taken place, we've had to be able to make sure we invest in those new techniques and new technologies as well. So you see for instance VMC on AWS, you see for instance Project Tango the cloud-based VR realms product. All of those are cloud-based infrastructure using, you know those more, well I guess they're described new or modern ways of developing applications, microservices, containerized, leveraging Kubernetes and so on in the mix. So just like the rest of the industry, we've been doing the same as part of that broader sorry, that broader industry momentum. There isn't a conflict that you, I think might think is there. The bottom line is our primary purpose is to deliver enterprise software which is solid, stable, secure, easily connected to the rest of the infrastructure. And that might sound a little bit boring, but it is the thing that keeps most of the data centers running and safe. VMware's ESX architecture, VMware's VC architecture has been at the very heart of that. And while they've matured over the years, right, they're still at the very heart of that virtualization part of what we do, but all of these other things we do, what we do in terms of cloud monitoring, what we do in terms of Wavefront, what we do in terms of VMC on AWS, they're new code, new architectures, broadly expanding that story, leveraging microservices and the things you would expect in that space. - Well, and VMware has proven to the gold standard in that regard. Maybe it is boring, but it's super important. - [John] So you got some compliments on theCUBE today, for the work you guys are doing, Andy Bechtolsheim was on earlier, a well-documented career he's had he knows a thing or two about networks. He said "VMware as NSX is ..." this is a quote from today, "... is the best solution that's available today that I can use for a use case of the large numbers I have between smooth connection between on-premise and off-premise public cloud, into the future, to edge, and telco, and all other things cloud." - Yeah, I'm not going to argue with that quote. (laughs) - [John] So, instant testimonial. Okay, NSX has become really this, and Pat was giddy about this last year, he's all like, you watch more NSX, you know more goodness coming; it seems to be the center piece to the a lot of the VMware's connection strategies to cloud and other things including manageability. What's the big thing about NSX, what should people know about NSX? - I think the single biggest thing is software-defined networking had a promise, and the promise is this highly flexible, easily configured, and in many ways, automated, or policy-driven in some cases; networking infrastructure. So it's all around that flexibility and fluidity of software-defined networking. The key strength that NSX does, it delivers on that promise, so it's easy to say software-defined networking, it's not easy to build it, right? And that's where I think NSX is proving all of its strength, it is a very strong implementation; I would argue, obviously, the best implementation of software-defined networking. So that testimonial is an echo of that, it's delivering on all the things you expect from a software-defined network. - [John] And what is NSX enabling? - In terms of the cloud connectivity story which you just described a second ago, what it enables is, really in some ways, because it is not tied to a specific infrastructure, I'm able to run NSX on a public cloud infrastructure and on a private cloud infrastructure, or on a hyper-converged infrastructure, but it's essentially the same NSX. It's the same control plane, it's managed in the same way, all of those different instances know how to interoperate with each other. So what it's enabling is this massive ability to have these networks very quickly brought up, connect to each other, and reliably communicate with each other, and be managed in a unified fashion. - [John] And it's targeting one of the hardest things people are working on which is interoperability. - [Ray] Correct, it's also targeting security. I mean one of the things when we think about networking that you should never forget is this key aspect of security, and NSX is clearly targeting that as well. So some of the things, even the features you see around app defense, a combination of app defense and NSX gives you enormous power. Pat's made a good presentation today where he was talkin' about the adaptive micro-segmentation. You can only do that because you have a great NSX underlying that network. - What's interesting about the NSX, just want to get your reaction to is that that the people are talking about here on theCUBE and also in the industry is that by having the security at the application portion of it, when NSX plays, takes the pressure of the network teams; security teams can have comfort in their piece, and then, (laughs) you don't intertwine them. Is that true, or is that ...? - So I'm reluctant to say it's true because the bottom line is, everybody needs to be paranoid, right? (John laughs) So- - Well from a segmentation standpoint, form a cohesiveness, not this finger pointings, there's not a lot of, it's not thorny. - [Ray] Because it moves the networking layer up a level, and that level is closer to the application. But, when I really I looked at, I think the key strength there is because it's software-defined, because it's flexible, where you get a lot of the problems is when applications change, there's a new version of the application, or we're now popping up a new instance of the application; now because NSX is this software layer beneath that, it is able to react to that. So instead of, you know the finger pointing back to the security or networking person saying you didn't reconfigure the network to deal with my new application; instead, the application and the network are intimately bound together. Actually Pat used some phrase today where he said "I think the app is the network" and so, or something like that, he was talking a little bit differently about it, but broadly speaking that's what's going on there. It's all around the flexibility and the fluidity that you get from NSX. - [John] The application is a network! - [Ray] Correct, that's what he said, yes. - Was his word. - [Ray] Yep, yep. - Which I love, to think he's right on the money. Complex and if some services evolve, the service measure are right around the corner. - [Ray] Yeah, highly interconnected, you know what app, think of any application on your iPhone or your Android device, which doesn't rely on about 20 other applications or databases or cloud services. - [John] Well, Ray, we'll have to get you on a white board sometime, and have you do a deeper dive, love this conversation, congratulations. Final word I'm going to ask you, what is this VMworld all about on stage, if you could knot down the technical engineering successes that you've had this year, what's it about this year, what's the scene from your perspective? - So I think one of the key things is, we've got a lot of products, a lot of technologies under development for the last few years, a lot of them are now starting to see fruition and the light of day; you know, you know you spoke about NSX, NSX is now reaching a real strength right? But that's work we've had to start two and three and four years ago. So to me, that's probably the strongest thing here, products, ideas, research that we've done over the years, development we've done over the years is now becoming real, is getting out and making available to customers; and in the end, that's what we're about, tryna get those technologies to hand to customers. - [John] And we're going to do our job to share that, and we're going to be tracking the successes; and also thank you for inviting us to your radio event where you had your top scientists. - Oh yeah it was great, very good to see you guys there, thank you. - [John] Great to see the energy, and the engineering prowess of VMware continuing strong, technical team, community, and customer base. This is theCUBE, bringing you our hardcore tech coverage here at VMworld 2018, three days, we're in day one, stay with us for more after this short break. (bubbly music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCube covering AWS reInvent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hello and welcome to theCube's exclusive coverage here in Las Vegas for AWS, Amazon Web Services reinvent 2017, 45,000 people. It's theCube's fifth year in covering AWS, five years ago I think 7,000 people attended, this year close to 45,000, developers and industry participants. And of course this is theCube I'm John Furrier with my co-host Keith Townsend and we're excited to have Cube alumni Sanjay Poonen who's the chief operating officer for VMware. Sanjay great to see you, of course a good friend with Andy Jassy, you went to Harvard Business School together, both Mavericks, welcome to theCube. >> Thank you and you know what I loved about the keynote this morning? Andy and I both love music. And he had all these musical stuff man. He had Tom Petty, he had Eric Clapton. I an not sure I like all of his picks but at least those two, loved it man. >> The music thing really speaks to the artists, artists inside of this industry. >> Yes. >> And we were talking on theCube earlier that, we're in a time now where and I think Tom Siebel said it when he was on, that there's going to be a mass, just extinction of companies that don't make it on the digital transformation and he cited some. You're at VMware you guys are transforming and continue to do well, you've a relationship with Amazon Web Services, talk about the challenge that's in front of business executives right now around this transformation because possibly looking at extinction for some big brands potentially big companies in IT. >> It's interesting that Tom Siebel would say that in terms of where Siebel ended up and where salespersons now I respect him, he's obviously doing good things at C3. But listen that's I think what every company has got to ask itself, how do you build longevity? How do you make yourself sustainable? Next year will be our 20 year anniversary of VMware's founding. The story could have been written about VMware that you were the last good company and then you were a legacy company because you were relevant to yesterday's part of the world which was the data center. And I think the key thing that kept us awake the last two or three years was how do you make them relevant to the other side of history which is the public cloud? What we've really been able to do over the last two or three years is build a story of the company that's not just relevant to the data center and private cloud, which is not going away guys as you know but build a bridge into the public cloud and this partnership has been a key part of that and then of course the third part of that is our end user computing story. So I think cloud mobile security have become the pillars of the new VMware and we're very excited about that and this show, I mean if you combine the momentum of this show and VMworld, collectively at VMworld we have probably about 70, 80,000 people who come to VMworld and Vforums, there's 45,000 people here with all the other summits, there's probably have another 40,000 people, this is collectively about a 100, 150,000 people are coming to the largest infrastructure shows on the planet great momentum. >> And as an infrastructure show that's turning into a developer show line get your thoughts and I want to just clarify something 'cause we pointed this out at VMworld this year because it's pretty obvious what happened. The announcement that you guys did that Ragu and your team did with Ragu with AWS was instrumental. The proof was at VMworld where you saw clarity in the messaging. Everyone can see what's going on. I now know what's happening, my operations are gonna be secure, I can run VSphere on the cloud or on Prem, everything could be called what it is. But the reality was is that you guys have the operators, IT operations and Amazon has a robust cloud native developer community, not that they're conflicting in any way, they're coming together so it was a smart move so I got to ask you, as you guys continue your relationship with AWS, how are you guys tying the new ops role, ops teams with the dev teams because with IoT, this is where it's coming together you can see it right there? Your thoughts? >> I mean listen, the partnership is going great. I just saw Andy Jassy after his exec summit session, gave him a hug. We're very excited about it and I think of any of the technology vendors he mentioned on stage, we were on several slides there, mentioned a few times. I think we're probably one of the top tech partners of his and reality is, there's two aspects to the story. One is the developer and operations come together which you, you eloquently articulated. The other aspect is, we're the king of the private cloud and they're the king of the public cloud, when you can bring these together, you don't have to make it a choice between one or the other, we want to make sure that the private cloud is maximized to its full extent and then you build a bridge into the public cloud. I think those two factors, bringing developer and operations together and marrying the private and public cloud, what we call hybrid cloud computing, a term we coined and now of course many others-- >> I think-- >> On top of the term. Well whoever did. >> I think HP might have coined it. >> But nonetheless, we feel very good about the future about developer and operations and hybrid cloud computing being a good part of the world's future. >> Sanjay, I actually interviewed you 2016 VMworld and you said something very interesting that now I look back on it I'm like, "Oh of course." Which is that, you gave your developers the tools they needed to do their jobs which at the time included AWS before the announcement of VMware and AWS partnership. AWS doesn't change their data center for anyone so the value that obviously you guys are bringing to them and their customers speaks volumes. AWS has also said, Andy on stage says, he tries to go out and talk to customers every week. I joked that before the start of this that every LinkedIn request I get, you're already a connection of that LinkedIn request. How important is it for you to talk to your internal staff as well as your external customers to get the pulse of this operations and developer movement going and infused into the culture of VMware. >> Well Keith I appreciate the kind words. When we decided who to partner with and how to partner with them, when we had made the announcement last year, we went and talked to our customers. We're very customer and client focused as are they. And we began to hear a very proportional to the market share stats, AWS most prominently and every one of our customers were telling us the same thing that both Andy and us were asking which is "Why couldn't you get the best of both worlds? "You're making a choice." Now we had a little bit of an impediment in the sense that we had tried to build a public cloud with vCloud air but once we made the decision that we were getting out of that business, divested it, took care of those clients, the door really opened up and we started to test pulse with a couple of customers under NDA. What if you were to imagine a partnership between us and Amazon, what would you think? And man, I can tell you, a couple of these customers some of who are on stage at the time of the announcement, fell off their chair. This would be huge. This is going to be like a, one customer said it's gonna be like a Berlin Wall moment, the US and the Soviet Union getting together. I mean the momentum building up to it. So now what we've got to do, it's been a year later, we've shipped, released, the momentum still is pretty high there, we've gotta now start to really make this actionable, get customers excited. Most of my meetings here have been with customers. System integrators that came from one of the largest SIs in the world. They're seeing this as a big part of the momentum. Our booth here is pretty crowded. We've got to make sure now that the customers can start realizing the value of VMware and AWS as a build. The other thing that as you mentioned that both sides did very explicitly in the design of this was to ensure that each other's engineering teams were closely embedded. So it's almost like having an engineering team of VMware embedded inside Amazon and an engineering team of Amazon embedded inside VMware. That's how closely we work together. Never done before in the history of both companies. I don't think they've ever done it with anybody else, certainly the level of trying. That represents the trust we had with each other. >> Sanjay, I gotta ask you, we were talking with some folks last night, I was saying that you were coming on theCube and I said, "What should I ask Sanjay? "I want to get him a zinger, "I want to get him off as messaging." Hard to do but we'll try. They said, "Ask him about security." So I gotta ask you, because security has been Amazon's kryptonite for many years. They've done the work in the public sector, they've done the work in the cloud with security and it's paying off for them. Security still needs to get solved. It's a solvable problem. What is your stance on security now that you got the private and hybrid going on with the public? Anything change? I know you got the AirWatch, you're proud of that but what else is going on? >> I think quietly, VMware has become one of the prominent brands that have been talked about in security. We had a CIO survey that I saw recently in network security where increasingly, customers are talking about VMware because of NSX. When I go to the AirWatch conference I look at the business cards of people and they're all in the security domain of endpoint security. What we're finding is that, security requires a new view of it where, it can't be 6000 vendors. It feels like a strip mall where every little shop has got its boutique little thing that you ought to buy and when you buy a car you expect a lot of the things to be solved in the core aspects of the car as opposed to buying a lot of add-ons. So our point of view first off is that security needs to baked into the infrastructure, and we're gonna do that. With products like NSX that bake it into the data center, with products like AirWatch and Workspace ONE that bake it into the endpoint and with products like App Defence that even take it deeper into the core of the hypervisor. Given that we've begun to also really focus our education of customers on higher level terms, I was talking to a CIO yesterday who was educating his board on what are some of the key things in cyber security they need to worry about. And the CIO said this to me, the magic word that he is training all of his board members on, is segmentation. Micro segmentation segmentation is a very simple concept that NSX sort of pioneered. We'll finding that now to become very relevant. Same-- >> So that's paying off? >> Paying up big time. WannaCry and Petya taught us that, patching probably is a very important aspect of what people need to do. Encryption, you could argue a lot of what happened in the Equifax may have been mitigated if the data been encrypted. Identity, multi-factor authentication. We're seeing a couple of these key things being hygiene that we can educate people better on in security, it really is becoming a key part to our stories now. >> And you consider yourself top-tier security provider-- >> We are part of an ecosystem but our point of view in security now is very well informed in helping people on the data center to the endpoint to the cloud and helping them with some of these key areas. And because we're so customer focused, we don't come in at this from the way a traditional security players providing access to and we don't necessarily have a brand there but increasingly we're finding with the success of NSX, Workspace ONE and the introduction of new products like App Defense, we're building a point of security that's highly differentiated and unique. >> Sanjay big acquisition in SD-WAN space. Tell us how does that high stress security player and this acquisition in SD-WAN, the edge, the cloud plays into VMware which is traditionally a data center company, SD-wAN, help us understand that acquisition. >> Good question. >> As we saw the data center and the cloud starting to develop that people understand pretty well. We began to also hear and see another aspect of what people were starting to see happen which was the edge and increasingly IoT is one driver of that. And our customers started to say to us, "Listen if you're driving NSX and its success "in the data center, wouldn't it be good "to also have a software-defined wide area network strategy "that allows us to take that benefit of networking, "software-defined networking to the branch, to the edge?" So increasingly we had a choice. Do we build that ourselves on top of NSX and build out an SD-WAN capability which we could have done or do we go and look at our customers? For example we went and talked to telcos like AT&T and they said the best solution out there is a company that can develop cloud. We start to talk to customers who were using them and we analyzed the space and we felt it would be much faster for us to buy rather than build a story of a software-defined networking story that goes from the data center to the branch. And VeloCloud was well-regarded, I would view this, it's early and we haven't closed the acquisition as yet but once we close this, this has all the potential to have the type of transformative effect like in AirWatch or in nai-si-ra-hat in a different way at the edge. And we think the idea of edge core which is the data center and cloud become very key aspects of where infrastructure play. And it becomes a partnership opportunity. VeloCloud will become a partnership opportunity with the telcos, with the AWSs of the world and with the traditional enterprises. >> So bring it all together for us. Data center, NSX, Edge SD-WAN, AirWatch capability, IOT, how does all of that connect together? >> You should look at IoT and Edge being kind of related topics. Data center and the core being related topics, cloud being a third and then of course the end-user landscape and the endpoint being where it is, those would be the four areas. Data center being the core of where VMware started, that's always gonna be and our stick there so to speak is that we're gonna take what was done in hardware and do it in software significantly cheaper, less complex and make a lot of money there. But then we will help people bridge into the cloud and bridge into the edge, that's the core part of our strategy. Data center first, cloud, edge. And then the end user world sits on top of all of that because every device today is either a phone, a tablet or a laptop and there's no vendor that can manage the heterogeneous landscape today of Apple devices, Google devices, Apple being iOS and Mac, Android, Chrome in the case of Google, or Windows 10 in the case of Microsoft. That heterogeneous landscape, managing and securing that which is what AirWatch and Workspace ONE does is uniquely ours. So we think this proposition of data center, cloud, edge and end-user computing, huge opportunity for VMware. >> Can we expect to see NSX as the core of that? >> Absolutely. NSX becomes to us as important as ESX was, in fact that's kind of why we like the name. It becomes the backbone and platform for everything we do that connects the data center to the cloud, it's a key part of BMC for example. It connects the data center to the edge hence what we've done with SD-WAN and it's also a key part to what connects to the end user world. When you connect network security with what we're doing with AirWatch which we announced two years ago, you get magic. We think NSX becomes a fundamental and we're only in the first or second or third inning of software-defined networking. We have a few thousand customers okay of NSX, that's a fraction of the 500,000 customers of VMware. We think we can take that in and the networking market is an 80 billion dollar market ripe for a lot of innovation. >> Sanjay, I want to get your perspective on the industry landscape. Amazon announcing results, I laid it out on my Forbes story and in Silicon Angle all the coverage, go check it out but basically is, Amazon is going so fast the developers are voting with their workloads so their cloud thing is the elastic cloud, they check, they're winning and winning. You guys own the enterprised data center operating model which is private cloud I buy that but it's all still one cloud IoT, I like that. The question is how do you explain it to the people that don't know what's going on? Share your color on what's happening here because this is a historic moment. It's a renaissance-- >> I think listen, when I'm describing this to my wife or to my mother or somebody who's not and say "There's a world of tech companies "that applies to the consumer." In fact when I look at my ticker list, I divide them on consumer and enterprise. These are companies like Apple and Google and Facebook. They may have aspirations in enterprise but they're primarily consumer companies and those are actually what most people can relate to and those are now some of the biggest market cap companies in the world. When you look at the enterprise, typically you can divide them into applications companies, companies like Salesforce, SAP and parts of Oracle and others, Workday and then companies in infrastructure which is where companies like VMware and AWS and so on fit. I think what's happening is, there's a significant shift because of the cloud to a whole new avenue of spending where every company has to think about themselves as a technology company. And the same thing's happening with mobile devices. Cloud mobile security ties many of those conversations together. And there are companies that are innovators and there companies that you described earlier John at the start of this show that's going to become extinct. >> My thesis is this, I want to get your reaction to this. I believe a software renaissance is coming and it's gonna be operated differently and you guys are already kind of telegraphing your move so if that's the case, then a whole new guard is gonna be developing, he calls it the new garden. Old guard he refers to kind of the older guards. My criticism of him was is that he put a Gartner slide up there, that is as says old guard as you get. Andy's promoting this whole new guard thing yet he puts up the Gartner Magic Quadrant for infrastructure as a service, that's irrelevant to his entire presentation, hold on, the question is about you know I'm a Gardner-- >> Before I defend him. >> They're all guard, don't defend him too fast. I know the buyers see if they trust Gartner, maybe not. The point is, what are the new metrics? We need new metrics because the cloud is horizontally scalable. It's integrated. You got software driving decision making, it's not about a category, it's about a fabric. >> I'm not here to... I'm a friend of Andy, I love what he talked about and I'm not here to defend or criticize Gartner but what I liked about his presentation was, he showed the Gartner slide probably about 20 minutes into the presentation. He started off by his metrics of revenue and number of customers. >> I get that, show momentum, Gartner gives you like the number one-- >> But the number of customers is what counts the most. The most important metric is adoption and last year he said there was about a million customers this year he said several million. And if it's true that both startups and enterprises are adopting this, adopting, I don't mean just buying, there is momentum here. Irrespective, the analysts talking about this should be, hopefully-- >> Alright so I buy the customer and I've said that on theCube before, of course and Microsoft could say, "We listen to customers too and we have a zillion customers "running Office 365." Is that really cloud or fake cloud? >> At the end of the day, at the end of the day, it's not a winner take all market to one player. I think all of these companies will be successful. They have different strategies. Microsoft's strategy is driven from Office 365 and some of what they can do in Windows into Azure. These folks have come up from the bottom up. Oracle's trying to come at it from a different angle, Google's trying to come at a different angle and the good news is, all of these companies have deep pockets and will invest. Amazon does have a head start. They are number one in the market. >> Let me rephrase it. Modern applications could be, I'll by the customer workload argument if it's defined as a modern app. Because Oracle could say I got a zillion customers too and they win on that, those numbers are pretty strong so is Microsoft. But to me the cloud is showing a new model. >> Absolutely. >> So what is in your mind good metric to saying that's a modern app, that is not. >> I think when you can look at the modern companies like the Airbnb, the Pinterest, the Slacks and whoever. Some of them are going to make a decision to do their own infrastructure. Facebook does not put their IaaS on top of AWS or Azure or Google, they built their own data is because they can afford to do and want to do it. That's their competitive advantage. But for companies who can't, if they are building their apps on these platforms that's one element. And then the traditional enterprises, they think about their evolution. If they're starting to adopt these platforms not just to migrate old applications to new ones where VMware fits in, all building new cloud native applications on there, I think that momentum is clear. When was the last time you saw a company go from zero to 18 billion in 10 years, 10, 12 years that he's been around? Or VMware or Salesforce go from zero to eight billion in the last 18 years? This phenomenon of companies like Salesforce, VMware and AWS-- >> It's all the scale guys, you gotta get to scale, you gotta have value. >> This is unprecedented in the last five to 10 years, unprecedented. These companies I believe are going to be the companies of the tech future. I'm not saying that the old guard, but if they don't change, they won't be the companies that people talk about. The phenomenon of AWS just going from zero to 18 is, I personally think-- >> And growing 40% on that baseline. >> Andy's probably one of the greatest leaders of our modern time for his role in making that happen but I think these are the companies that we watch carefully. The companies that are growing rapidly, that our customers are adopting them in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, there's true momentum there. >> So Sanjay, data has gravity, data is also the new oil. We look at what Andy has in his arsenal, all of the date of that's in S3 that he can run, all his MI and AI services against, that's some great honey for this audience. When I look at VMware, there's not much of a data strategy, there's a security the data in transit but there's not a data strategy. What does VMware's data strategy to help customers take math without oil? >> We've talked about it in terms of our data analytics what we're doing machine learning and AI. We felt this year given so much of what we had to announce around security software-defined networking, the branch, the edge, putting more of that into VMworld which is usually our big event where we announce this stuff would have just crowded our people. But we began to lay the seeds of what you'll start to hear a lot more in 2018. Not trying to make a spoiler alert for but we acquired this company Wavefront that does, next-generation cloud native metrics and analytics. Think of it as like, you did that with AppDynamics in the old world, you're doing this with Wavefront in the new world of cloud native. We have really rethought through how, all the data we collect, whether it's on the data center or in the endpoint could be mined and become a telemetry that we actually use. We bought another company Apteligent, formerly called Criticism, that's allowing us to do that type of analytics on the endpoint. You're gonna see a couple of these moves that are the breadcrumbs of what we'll start announcing a lot more of a comprehensive analytics strategy in 2018, which I think we're very exciting. I think the other thing we've been cautious to do is not AI wash, there's a lot of cloud washing and machine learning washing that happened to companies-- >> They're stopping a wave on-- >> Now it's authentic, now I think it's out there when, when Andy talks about all they're doing in AI and machine learning, there's an authenticity to it. We want to be in the same way, have a measured, careful strategy and you will absolutely hear from us a lot more. Thank you for bringing it up because it's something that's on our radar. >> Sanjay we gotta go but thanks for coming and stopping by theCube. I know you're super busy and great to drop in and see you. >> Always a pleasure and thanks-- >> Congratulations-- >> And Keith good to talk to you again. >> Congratulations, all the success you're having with the show. >> We're doing our work, getting the reports out there, reporting here on theCube, we have two sets, 45,000 people, exclusive coverage on siliconangle.com, more data coming, every day, we have another whole day tomorrow, big night tonight, the Pub Crawl, meetings, VCs, I'll be out there, we'll be out there, grinding it out, ear to the ground, go get those stories and bring it to you. It's theCube live coverage from AWS reInvent 2017, we're back with more after this short break.