>>from the >>Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders around the globe. >>These are cloud native insights. Hi, I'm stupid, man. And welcome to Episode one of Cloud Native Insights. So this is a new program brought to you by Silicon Angle Media's The Cube. I am your host stew minimum, and we're going to be digging in to cloud native and, of course, cloud native like cloud before kind of a generic term. If you look at it online, there's a lot of buzzwords. There's a lot of jargon out there, and so we want to help. Understand what? This is what This isn't on And really happy to welcome back to the program to help me kick it off you piss car. He is an industry analyst. His company is T l A Tech. You. Thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks, Dave. Glad we're >>all right. And one of the reasons I wanted you to help me kick this off. Not only have you been on the Cube, you know your background. I met you when you were the cto of a service provider over there in Europe, where you're Netherlands based. You were did strategy for a very large ah, supermarket chain also. And you've been on the program that shows like docker con in the past. You work in the cloud native space you've done consulting for. Some of the companies will be talking about today. But you help me kick this off a little bit. When you heard here the term cloud native. Does that mean anything to you? Did that mean anything back in your previous roles? You know, help us tee that up. >>So, you know, it kind of gives off a certain direction and where people are going. Right. Um so to me, Cloud native is more about the way you use cloud, not necessarily about the cloud services themselves. So, you know, for instance, I'll take the example of the supermarket. They had a big e commerce presence. And so we were come getting them to a place where they could, in smaller teams, deploy software in a faster, more often and in a safer way so that teams could work independently of each other, work on, you know, adding business value, whatever that may be for any kind of different company. That's a cloud native to me, Connie means using that to the fullest extent, using those services available to you in a way organizationally and culturally. That makes sense to you, you know, Go wherever you need to go. Be that release every hour or, you know, transform your s AP environment to something that is more nimble, more flexible, literally more agile. So what cloud native means so many things to so many people? Because it's immediately is not directly about the technology, but how you actually use it. >>Um, and u Pua and I are in, you know, strong agreement on this thing. One is you've noticed we haven't said kubernetes yet. We haven't talked about containers because cloud native is not about the tooling. We're, you know, strong participants in you know, the CN CF activities. The Cloud Native Computing Foundation, cube con and cloud native is a huge show. Great momentum one. We're big fans of too often people would conflate and they'd say, Oh, cloud native equals. I'm doing containers and I've, you know, deployed kubernetes one of the challenges out there. You talk about companies, you know? Well, you know, I had a cloud first initiative and I'm using multi cloud and all this stuff. It's like, Well, are you actually leveraging these capabilities, or did I shove things in something I'd railed about for the last couple of years? You talk about repatriation, and repatriation is often I went to go do cloud. I didn't really understand what I was doing. I didn't understand how to leverage that stuff. And I crawled back to what I was doing before because I knew how to do that. Well, so, you know, I think you said it really well. Cloud native means I'm taking advantage of the services. I'm doing things in a much more modern way. The thing I've loved talking to practitioners and one of things I want to do on this program absolutely is talk to practitioners is how have you gone through things organizationally, there are lots of things right now. Talk about like, thin ops. And, of course, all the spin off from Dev Ops and Dev SEC ops. And, like, how are we breaking through silos? How we're modernizing our environments, how we're taking advantage of new ways of doing things and new services. So yeah, I guess you You know, there are some really cool tools out there. Those are awesome things. But, you know, I love your viewpoint. Your perspective on often people in tech are like, Hey, I have this really cool new tool that I can use, you know? Can I take advantage of that? You know, do I do things in a new way, or do I just kind of take my old way and just make things maybe a little incrementally better? Hopefully with some new tooling. >>Oh, yeah. I mean, I totally agree. Um, you know, tooling is cool. Let me let me start by saying that I You know, I'm an engineer by heart, so I love tinkering with new new stuff. So I love communities I love. Um, you know that a new terra form released, for instance, I love seeing competition in the container orchestration space. I love driving into K native server lists. You know, all those technologies I like, But it is a matter of, you know, what can you do with them, right. So, for instance, has she corporate line of mine? I work on their hashtag off. Even they offer kind of Ah, not necessarily an alternative, but kind of adjacent approach to you what the CNC F is doing, and even in those cases, and I'm up specifically calling out Hashi Corp. But I'm kind of giving. The broader overview is, um, it doesn't actually matter what to use, Even though it'll help me. It'll make me happy just to play around with them. But those new tools have to mean something. They have to solve a particular problem. You have either in speed of delivery or consistency of delivery or quality of service, the thing you are building for your customers. So it has to mean something. So back in the day when I started out in engineering 15 years ago, a lot of the engineering loss for the sake of engineering just because, you know you could create a piece of infrastructure a little faster, but there was no actual business value to be out there. That's a lot of the engineering kind of was stuck inside of its own realm, or as what you see now is, if you can use terraform and actually get all of you know the potential out of you, it allow you to release offer more quickly because you're able to stand up infrastructure for that software more quickly. And so you know, we've kind of shifted from back in the in the attic or in the basement doing I t. Stuff that no one really understands. The one kind of perceives the business value of it into the realm of okay, If we can deploy this faster or we don't even need to use a server, we can use server lists. Then we have an advantage in the marketplace. You know, whatever marketplace that is, whatever application we're talking about. And so that's the difference to me. And that was that. You know, that's what CN CF is doing to me. That is what has she Corpus is helping build. That is what you know. A lot of companies that built, for instance, a managed kubernetes service. But from nine spectral crowd, all those kinds of companies, they will help, you know, a given customer to speed up their delivery, to not care about the underlying infrastructure anymore. And that's what this is all about to me. And that is what cloud native means use it in a way that I don't actually have to do the toil off the engineering anymore. There's loads of smart people working for, you know, the Big Three cloud vendors. There's loads of people working for those manage service providers, but he's used them so that you can speed up your delivery, create better software created faster, make customers happy. >>Yeah, it's a lot to unpack there. I want to talk a little bit about that landscape, right When you talk about, you know, cloud native, maybe a little compare contrast I think about, you know, the wave of Dev ops and for often people like, you know, Dev Ops. You know, that's a cultural movement. But there's also tooling that I could buy to help me along that weighs automation, you know, going agile methodology. See, I CD are all things that you're like. Well, is this part of Dev Ops, isn't it? There's lots of companies out there that we saw rows rode that wave of Dev ops. And if you talk about cloud native, you know the first thing you know, you start with the cloud providers. So when I hear you talking about, how do we get rid of things that we don't need to worry about? Well, for years, we heard Amazon Web services talk about getting rid of undifferentiated heavy lifting. And it's something that we're huge fans off you talk about. What is the business outcome? It's not. Hey, I went from, you know, a stand alone server to I did virtualized environments. And now I'm looking container ization or serverless. What can I get rid of? How do I take advantage of native services and all of those cloud platforms? One of the huge values there is, it isn't Hey, I deployed this and maybe it's a little bit cheaper and maybe a little better. But there's that that is really the center of where innovation is happening not only from the platform providers they're setting themselves, but from that ecosystem. And I guess I'll put it out there. One of the things I would like to see from Cloud Native should be that I should be able to take care of take advantage of innovation wherever it is. So Cloud Native does not mean it must live in the public cloud. It does not necessarily mean that I'm going, you know, full bore, multi cloud everywhere. I've had some great debates with Corey Quinn, on the Cube Online and the like, because if you look at customer environments today, you know, yes, they absolutely have their data centers. They're leveraging, typically more than one public cloud. SAS is a big part of the picture and then edge computing and pulls everything away into a much more distributed architecture. So, you know, I'm glad you brought up. You know, Hashi, a company you're working with really interesting. And if you talk about cloud native, it's there. They're not trying to get people to, oh, use multiple clouds because it's good for us. It's they. Hey, the reality is that you're probably using multiple clouds, and whether it's one cloud or many clouds or even in your data center, we have a set of tools that we can offer you. So you know, Hashi, you mentioned, you know, terra form vault. You know, the various tooling is that they have open source, you know, big play in this environment, both under the CN CF umbrella and beyond. Give us a little bit as to, you know, where are the interesting places where you see either vendors and technology today, or opportunity to make these solutions better for users. >>So that's an interesting question, because I literally don't know where to begin. The spectrum is so so broad, it's all start off with a joke on this, right? You cannot buy that helps. But the vendors were sure try and sell it to you. So it's kind of where you know, the battle is is raging on its getting foothold into an organization. Um, and you see that? You know, you see companies like, how is she doing that? Um, they started out with open source tooling that kind of move into the enterprise realm. Um, you solve the issues that enterprises usually have, and that's what the club defenders will trying to you as although you know, the kind of kick start you with a free service and then move you up into their their stack. And that's you know, that's where Cloud native is kind of risky because the landscape is so fragmented, it is really hard to figure out. Okay, this tool, it actually solves my use case versus this one doesn't. But again, it's in the ecosystem in this ecosystem already, so let's let's still use it just because it's easier. Um, but it does boil the disk a lot of the discussion down into. Basically, it's a friction. How much effort does it take to start using something? Because that's where and that's basically the issues enterprises are trying to solve. It's around friction, and it used to be friction around, you know, buying servers and then kind of being stuck with him for 4 to 5 years. But now it is the vendor lock in where people in organizations have to make tough decisions. You know, what ecosystems am I going to buy into it? It's It's also where a lot of the multi cloud marketing comes from on the way down to get you into a specific ecosystem on your end companies kind of filling that gap, helping you manage that complexity and how she corpus is one of those examples in my book that help you manage that multi cloud ah challenge. So but yeah, But it is all part of that discussion around friction. >>Yeah, and I guess I would start if you say, as you said, it is such a broad spectrum out there. If you look in the developer tooling marketplace is, there's lots of people that have, you know, landscapes out there. So CN cf even has a great landscape. And you know, things like Security, you no matter wherever I am and everywhere that I am. And there's a lot of effort to try to make sure that I can have something that spans across the environment. Of course, Security, you know, huge issue in general. And right now, Cohen, 19. The global pandemic coming on has been, you know, putting a spotlight on it even more. We know shared responsibility models where security needs to be. Data is at the center of what we're talking about when we've been talking for years about companies going through their transformation, I hadn't talked about, you know, digital transformation. What that means is, at the end of the day, you need to be data driven. So there's lots of companies, you know, big movement and things like ml ops. How can I actually harness my data? I said one of the things I think we got out of the whole big data wave. It was that bit flip from, Oh my God, their data everywhere. And maybe that's a challenge for me. It now becomes an opportunity and often times somewhere that I can have new value or even new business models that we can create around data. So, you know, data security on and everyone is modernizing. So, you know, worry a bit that there is sometimes, you know, cloud native washing. You know, just like everything else. It's, you know, cloud enabled. You know, ai ready from an infrastructure standpoint, you know, how much are you actually leveraging Cloud native? The bar, we always said, is, you know, if you're putting something in your data center, how does that compare against what I could get if I'm doing aws azure or Google type of environment? So I have seen good progress over the last couple of years in what we used to call it Private Cloud. And now it's more Ah, hybrid environment or multi cloud. And it looks and acts and is managed much more like the public cloud at a lot of that. Is that driver for developers? So you know Palmer, you know, developers, developers, developers, you know, absolutely. He was right as to how important that is. And one of the things I've been a little bit hardened at is it used to be. You talked about the enterprise and while the developers were off in the corner and, you know, we need to think about them and help enable them. But now, like the Dev Ops movement, we're trying to break down those silos. You know, developers are much more in the workflow. When I look at tools out there not only get hub, you know, you talked about Hashi, you know, get lab answerable and others. Often they have ways to have nothing to developers. The product owners and others all get visibility into it. Because if you can get, you know, people in the organization all accessing the same work stream the way that they need to have it there. There's goodness there. So I guess final question I have for you is you know, what advice do we have for practitioners themselves? Often, the question is, how do I get from where I've been? So where I'm going, This whole discussion of Cloud native is you know, we spent more than a decade talking about cloud, and it was often the kind of where in the movement and the like So what? I want to tee up with cloud native is discussion, really for the next decade. And you know, if I'm, you know, a c i o If I'm in, i t how do I make sure that I'm ready for these next opportunities while still managing? You know what I have in my own environment. >>So that kind of circles back to where we started this discussion, right? Cloud native and Dev ops and a couple of those methodologies they're not actually about the tooling. They are about what to do with them. Can you leverage them to achieve a goal? And so my biggest advice is Look for that goal. First, have something toward towards because if you have a problem, the solution will present itself. Um, and I'm not saying go look for a problem. The problems, they're already It's a matter of, um, you know, articulating that problem in a way that your developers will actually understand what to do. And then they will go and find the tools that are needed to solve that particular problem. And so we turn this around in a sense that so finally, we are at a point where we can have business problems. Actually, solved by I t in a way that doesn't require, you know, millions of upfront investment or, you know, consultants from an outside company. Your developers are now able to start solving those problems, and it will maybe take a while. They may need some outside help Teoh to figure some stuff out, But the point is, we can now use you know, these cloud resource is these cloud native services in such a small, practical way that we can actually start solving these business problems in a real way. >>Yeah, you actually, earlier this year I've done a series of interviews getting ready for this type of environment. You know, one of the areas I spent a bunch of time trying to dig in. And to be frank, understand has been server lists. So, you know, people very excited about server lists. You know, one of the dynamics always is, You know, everything we're talking about with containers and kubernetes driving them to think about that. I always looked as container ization was kind of moving up the stack in making infrastructure easier. The work for applications, but something like serverless it comes, top down. It's it's more of not the tooling, but how do I build those applications in those environments and not need to think at least as much about the infrastructure? So server lists Absolutely something we will cover, you know, containers, kubernetes what I'm looking for. Always love practitioners love to somebody. You you've been, you know, in that end, user it before startups. Absolutely. We'll be talking to as well as other people you know, in the ecosystem that you want to help, have discussions, have debates. You know, we don't have, you know, a strong. You know, this is the agenda that we have for cloud native, but I really want to help facilitate the dialogue. So I'll give you a final word here. Anything You know, what's exciting you these days when you talk to your peers out there, you know, in general, you know, it can be some tools, even though we understand tools are only a piece of it or any other final tips that you have in this market >>space. Well, I want to kind of go go forward on on your statement earlier about server lists without calling, You know, any specific serverless technology out there specifically, but you're looking at those technologies you'll see, But we're now able to solve those business problems. Um, without actually even needing I t right. So no code low code platforms are very adjacent to you to do serverless movement. Um, and that's where you know, that's what really excites me of this at this point, simply because, you know, we no longer need actual hardcore engineering as a trait Teoh use i t to move the needle forward. And that's what I love about the cloud native movement that it used to be hard. And it's getting simpler in a way also more complex in a way. What we're paying someone else Teoh to solve those issues. So I'm excited to see where you know, no code low code survivalism those the kinds of technologies will take us in the next decade. >>Absolutely wonderful. When you have technology that makes it more globally accessible There, obviously, you know, large generational shifts happening in the workforce. You Thank you so much for joining us, >>actually, Sue. >>All right. And I guess the final call to action really is We are looking for those guests out there, so, you know, practitioners, startups people that have a strong viewpoint. You can reach out to me. My emails just stew Stu at silicon angle dot com where you can hit me up on the twitters. I'm just at stew on there. Also. Eso thank you so much for joining us. Planning to do these in General Weekly cadence. You'll find the articles that go along with these on silicon angle dot com. Of course. All the video on the cube dot net I'm stew minimum in and love to hear more about your cloud Native insights >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

>>Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the cube covering Nutanix dot. Next 2019 brought to you by Nutanix. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of Nutanix. Dot. Next we are here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with Stu minimun. We are joined by Nicola Bosun awic. He is the VP GM desktop services at Newtanics. Thanks so much for coming on the show. And also you piss Carr who is an industry analyst and and the many time guest on the cube. That's right. Thank you so much for coming on the show. So you are actually the founder of frame and frame was bought by Nutanix a about a year ago. So tell us a little bit about the acquisition, how its acquisitions are challenging. How has it has, how has it been going? >>It's mayor great year. Uh, there's no better place than a tannics to do end user computing in VDI. And that's what frame was all about. How we make it simple. Uh, that was also all about Newtanics. How do you make computing simple, fast, delightful, and um, we've done, uh, so many things to really bridge that world of on prem and cloud off traditional legacy VDI, like Citrix and VMware on hyperconverged infrastructure and now new broker like frame. And we are really looking at that as one end user computing team and just do what's right for the customers. So it's been a blast. Yeah. Nicola, you know, last year when we had you on, we talked a lot about frame, so you've got a broader mandate now to do the whole desktop services. Give us your view of the landscape a little bit out there as you know, definitely. >>I understand, you know, VDI traditionally, boy was it complicated building that stack, the infrastructure and the software pieces. Um, you know, where are your customers today and you know, how's the industry doing it a whole on that modernization journey. >> Uh, it, as I said, it's been a great 12 months. If you're in VDI. A lot of people who are in the traditional VDI world with brokers like Citrix and VMware are looking to modernize their data centers and there is no better options than uh, hyperconverged and Newtanics to have bite size and linearly, um, scaled infrastructure, run VDI. We continue to innovate, we continue to work closely with um, the vendors, especially Citrix. Um, and at the same time as the focus is shifting to the public clouds, uh, we are, um, having our own opinion and how the broker in the public cloud should look like with frame and then mixing and matching where the desktops really are and really looking at very, um, industry and vertical specific use cases. We're seeing lot of new adoption in healthcare and financial services and with frame, we're seeing a lot of new use cases in education and public sector as well. Right. >>Is this, is this jiving with what you see as the terms of the way they're positioning themselves and what you're hearing from your sources in the market? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, you know, given the trend that, you know, applications are going into the cloud, um, it makes sense to kind of pick up those, you know, those applications that are harder to virtualize, harder to move to the cloud and you know, find a way to bring them to the cloud as well. To bring that, I don't know, that cloud like experience for the older applications as well. Um, and then the other hand there's, you know, the simplicity of running the, um, the older desktops. Uh, the traditional VDI just likes to set, I mean, it's difficult to set up that whole environment to manage it, to make sure it continues to operate and then to have something that kind of replaces that with a simple solution. I mean, that's what customers are looking for. Yup. >>Nicola, I know some of the conversations I had years ago was, you know, it's not even desktop. It's, it's about my applications, it's about my users. It's about how things, things are changing. They're in today's world where have many customers who are trying to do SAS first. You know, how, how do you, I guess, reframe that conversation of, you know, what was, you know, we spent over a decade with that VDI discussion. Look, I think we're going to end up, when it comes to infrastructure and when it comes to virtualization, we're going to come ups where some somewhere in the middle where not everything's going to be public cloud and that everything's going to be on prem. It's going to be somewhere in the middle of when it comes to application delivery versus full desktops. It started obviously with app virtualization, but more and more people are looking at delivering full desktop solutions. >>There is a great benefit to it, consistent performance, um, you know, isolation and security or some things that come to mind and we are now able to deliver great performance. Look at windows 10, which is a big migration. We can deliver great windows 10 performance using Citrix or using frame and um, for example, some of the innovation that NVIDIA's bringing to market with a virtualizing GPS. So for the longest time it was a niche and as becoming more of a mainstream, if you just want your desktop to be scrolling smoothly, you'll probably need your GPU. So I think that's where a VDI and a simplicity of VDI, um, really takes over. >>So you are talking about speed and security. What about design? How does that play into it? >>Well, kind of Newtanics is all about, you know, data delivery, design and delight. And a, I think with end user computing, uh, it's end user for a reason. It's experienced by a user, it's experienced by an administrator, and at the end of the day, best user experience is going to win. So for administrators, if they can install their applications and manage them in one click, that's a great benefit. Then that's what we bring with combination of hybrid converged and a frame. Same goes for end user experience, um, as opposed to, let's say 10 years ago when everybody was in a wired network. Uh, these days people work from anywhere. They work from Starbucks, they work over and allows a seller a. So it's very important to have that user experience. Um, you know, uh, be delightful. And, um, that's something that we're very focused on. Yeah. I think I've had so many discussions this year about kind of the CX, the customer experience as well as the employee experience. So, you know, I would think that this whole EUC discussion ties it. What, what are you hearing from them and seeing out there? >>So, you know, the, the whole, the whole discussion about experience. Um, I think it's really important. I mean, employees have to do their job. They are given the tools to do the job, but sometimes the tools that are given or you know, slightly older, um, they may not be modern, they may not be web-based, they may not be performant or, so the issue is how do you, you know, in a very specific niche and a very specific use case, how do you make sure that the older application will actually continue running? Right? Um, how do you bring that, you know, windows application into a, um, into a framework where you can actually work with it everywhere on any device? Right. And that's, that's of where, where I see the, um, um, the wish for a good employee experience cannot be broken down by the technical technical limitations of what applications can do. Right. Um, and the issue is, you know, not every application is cloud native, not every, every application runs in the cloud. So you have to have something that kind of bridges that gap between, you know, on the one hand what you want to offer to the employee and the other hand what you're kind of forced to use in specific use cases. Um, there's just no other way than, you know, w using that old windows application. Yeah. >>Nicola, once again, I think back to some of the years of talking about VDI deployments and it was like up, well, organizationally, we're now off to have the desktop team versus the server team and the storage people need to get involved. And you brought a customer to come talk to the analyst yesterday and they didn't, they were like, we don't want to worry about any of this. We want to worry about our application, what's going on. So help, help explain a little bit, kind of some of the transformational potential of the new model. It's almost the same way we can hyper converged compute within storage and hypervisor. We're hyper converging all these different roles from the storage role to the it role to the business for all where to be honest, you don't need three separate people or three separate teams to do it. Um, solutions like, um, frame for example, make it possible to do that from a single pane of glass and to manage it all. So the customer that we had yesterday is doing that thing. Exactly. And it's not going even to there. It, um, in some cases, um, like, Oh customer we're going to have tomorrow Vodafone, uh, that is, they're on a hyperconverged still has lot more than what I'd call a legacy. It's 5,000 applications delivered to 50,000 concurrent users and they're just doing a new refresh shot. It's here to stay. VDI is here to stay. Yeah. What are >>you see as some of the biggest challenges facing companies like Nutanix? Um, particularly in this space? >>So, I mean, the biggest challenge is going to be integration, right? I mean Nutanix is becoming a big company. It's up to you, I don't know, 5,500 people. I think it's a big company. It's a lot of products that, you know, the portfolio is expanding. And so making sure that all of those solutions fit into the portfolio. And again, coming back to that experience, right? Um, so can candidates annex deliver a solution for many different problems within the data center and Indiana briars cloud without it seeming to be, you know, different products that are not integrated where the user experience is bad. I mean, we've all been there where you try to run a data center and you got bogged down with all of the details simply because the products that you use are not integrated. Um, so I think, you know, from, from any tannics perspective, making sure that everything's integrated and worked well with all of the other products in a portfolio, that's going to be the big challenge for the next year. You know, Nicola, we had Dera John this morning and he talked about those experiences. You know, customers shouldn't have >>Oh my gosh. You know, I looked on the slide and there's 30 different Nutanix products and I can't even spell all of them. Um, you know, uh, so, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, you know, integrating frame through and making sure a desktop just becomes a, you know, a piece of that experience. The big switch for us as being thinking about solutions, not products for that same reason because there's so many products right now in a portfolio and end user computing or VDI has been one of the key solutions that we are focusing on in the next 12 and 24 mods. So would, that really means is that all the products are designed to work seamlessly. So it starts with your, um, hyper-converged, um, widths, um, Citrix as a broker, horizon as a broker, a frame as a broker, but it extends way beyond that. >>So talking about files, you obviously need your enterprise file server that is very, very seamlessly integrated with the end user computing solution. Same goes for flow. You can now have boundaries of who can access VMs or now we have identity based micro segmentation. Um, and then, uh, things like beam where you can seamlessly again have one-click integration and now how much is something costing you right now and how much the same workload would cost you if you ran it on prem or in a different cloud. So I think all of these things are designed to work seamlessly and we spend a ton of time, I mean literally a ton of time to get together with all the teams and to make sure that that user experience is as seamless as possible. >>So I want to go deeper into your past when at the age of 22, you helped lead a revolution that overthrew Slobodan Milosevic. I want to know the lessons that you learned as a revolutionary and how and how you apply them to the technology industry today. I mean because there is a lot of, you know, move fast and break, which is what you were doing then. Yeah. >>Now also like, ah, I, I spoke to a group of executive last night and mentioned, um, uh, those times in the 90s. I grew up in Serbia where the rest of the world was going for dotcom. Boom. We were dealing with, um, um, basically Yugoslavia breaking apart and in 96, from, um, um, pretty anonymous student in the, in a crowds after Milosevic's stolen election, um, I became the leader of what was a very, uh, uh, natural, but also very attentive, um, movement. Uh, within four weeks I was sitting with him just like this, negotiating and negotiating with about a hundred thousand people yelling and screaming under his window, and he had to, um, reverse the results of his election fraud. It took another couple of years. Then we got rid of him. The lesson that I learned at a very young age and just, you know, things just happen was that if you do things in an authentic way, if you speak with conviction ed the right time, you know, there, there are no things that you can do. >>And that was probably the revolutionary spirit that Newtanics shares when I met Dhiraj that, uh, you know, everything's possible that incumbencies not are insurmountable. And that's what led me to move to the U S um, go to my grad school, get BHD start gobbling companies. And looking back, I'm in my mid forties right now. It's pretty crazy to looking at the odds and they'll, what it takes to build a company, make it successful and how risky that is. Just going through some of these experiences when I was in my early twenties, certainly helped me. And, um, I think we'll live in the day and age where the risk is probably overestimated and that we should probably all take more risk. Uh, in modern day and age, the gain is potentially very large and the risk is relatively small. >>Those are that, that's great. But then the timing is everything too >>thing. And I know there was, um, a fall of two 96 20 cup, 20 something years ago. And I remember, um, you know, the biggest lesson that I've learned, if we've done exactly the same thing and we've done it 10 times better six months before or six months after, it wouldn't happen. It was really the right moment and the right wave of underlying energy that if you serve that way the right way, you can move mountains. But it's really important to have a krill clear message to do it with conviction and to do it the right time. >>Right. So it's a little bit of luck, but then also the willingness to take a risk. Absolutely. Excellent. Well, thank you so much. You've and Nicola. Thank you. It was a pleasure talking to you both. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman. We will have more coming up tomorrow from nutanix.next.

>> Narrator: From Austin, Texas it's the Cube, covering DockerCon 2017, brought to you by Docker and support from its ecosystem partners. (upbeat music) >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman, and this is the Cube's coverage of DockerCon 2017 here in Austin, Texas. Getting towards the end of our two days of coverage. Really been geeking out on a lot of the technology here, and I was happy to be able to pull in two guys I know, I've had them on the Cube before, to really go in into how this who container wave is impacting their business, to go into the technology some. So I want to welcome back to the program, first you know John White. He's the Vice President of Product Strategy with Expedient and who I'm happy to see not wearing his football jersey. John, thanks for joining me again. >> (laughs) Good to see you. >> And Joep Piscaer, who is the CTO of OGD. I had the pleasure of interviewing Joep over in Europe last year at a show, so, you know, welcome over to Austin. I think Vienna and Austin, woe meet coma at both of those places. >> Oh yeah. >> So yeah, it seems every time we get together there's a lot of that going around. >> There's always a meet excuse, right? >> Right, so maybe start with you, have you been to DockerCon before? What's your experience been here at the show so far? >> Yeah, so this is my second DockerCon. I've been here last year as well, in Seattle. And I'm kind of liking the vibe this time round. So last year it was really, you know, all about developers. I'm kind of liking it, more about the enterprise right now. You know, as an enterprise guy, work for an MSP, so you know, we deal with a lot of enterprises. And it's good to see that Docker is, you know, giving the enterprise a lot of thought and a lot of attention because, you know, that was one area where they were lacking last year. >> So John, you know, you look at a lot of the ecosystem, you're also a service provider. What's your take so far? >> Yeah, so this is the first time for me at DockerCon. I go to a lot of conferences, so I read the room a little bit differently, I guess, than most. It's been interesting for me. These two days have been jam-packed. I've been soaking up a lot of new knowledge and new vendors, new potential partners for us to look into. But I'll agree, I think a lot of the focus on the enterprise, figuring out maybe how this is relevant to them and the future is actually a really great way to go and I hope to see more of that. Looking for those use cases right now is a little bit hard, especially when you have people like Visa that have been working on this for, you know, a few years now and only six months into production. We're just so very, very early in this technology that I think we're still walking, maybe, probably still crawling even, through it. >> Yeah, before we go into the tech, let's talk about ecosystems. So it's a word that I heard over and over again in the keynotes. You know, John, I was talking with you at VN World at AWS Free Invent, as a service provider sometimes, it feels like body blows and head shots, going to some of these shows because how they're partnering with you, how do you see Docker? What kind of things do they build? How does that, you know, help or hurt your business? >> Yeah, so Docker is a company, we really haven't worked with them quite yet. The ecosystem, though, is interesting here. There's a lot of new faces here, a lot of faces that I've interacted with on the Virtualization Days, now kind of porting over to here, so, you know, I've already started to reach out to some of them to kind of get an understanding, like for instance, of risks on the network side, what they're doing, how they're actually interacting with Docker. And think that's going to be really important because I think that's going to be one of my bigger challenges in the future, is how I actually network all this stuff together. You know, I can see us definitely starting to work closer with Docker, with Docker Data Center. I think customers are going to demand something like that. And they're not going to want to host it inside of their data centers. They're going to want to host it in probably a third party service provider. >> Yeah, I'm sure both of you were looking at, I think it was the Visa case study, we talked about utilization of what they had and I thought of you guys, cause it was like, oh, wait, big surprise, my utilization is really low because wait, why am I doing this in house when I should be going to somebody to handle that. Your thoughts on the ecosystem, you know, we talked at the Nucanic Show, you know, when you look at technology partners, you know, how does Docker and their ecosystem fit in to your thoughts? >> So it's like a whole new ecosystem to get into, right? So it's kind of discovering from ground zero again, what's the ecosystem look like? Who's doing what, who's developing what kind of new trends? So it's good to be there early, just to get a good feel about the ecosystem, get to know the people and be able to kind of develop a strategy around Docker, because it is early days, right? So it's way too early to go in to a customer and say we have a complete package for you. That's just not going to happen between now and like six months. So the issue really is how you get to a point with the customer where you can jointly develop a strategy to get Docker into your service profile. And going to events like DockerCon really helps to actually kind of achieve that goal. >> So you guys are always in an interesting space, you know, you're consuming some of the technologies from the vendor, you've got your customers, you know, putting demands on you, so you know, CTO sets strategy, why not dig in for us a little bit as to what your seeing, what's good, what's bad, you know. There's networking, there's storage, there's security, you know. Maybe John, start with you. I don't know if networking would be the one to start, but I'll let you choose. >> Yeah I think we're going to run, I mean, we're an infrastructure company. We've been running virtual infrastructure since 2007. We know it, we understand it. And you start to understand where the pitfalls are. This is going to change it. I mean, the bin packing problem is going to change significantly over the next few years. Some of the people, I went to their use case session, they're saying they're seeing 70% reduction in resources. Now, they're not saying 70% reduction in resources, you know, just because they made things smaller. They just packed them tighter into a smaller group of boxes. That's going to be interesting. And you know, discovering how we can actually provide that at the true infrastructure layer for our customers is going to be a really big challenge for us. And it's going to revolve around us having pretty strong partner relationships since we don't do the professional services to kind of figure out how to transform your application. We're going to need somebody to help us there. We're going to handle the infrastructure underneath. >> Maybe explain that a little more. Like you know, if I'm saying well, if I'm Amazon and I can just do that, they've got kind of infinite resources there and therefore as a customer I don't need to worry about that, you know. What do you have to worry about? And should your customers care or will you make that transparent to them? >> Let's think about, you know, we went to virtualization. We had P to V converters, right? We all used them, we all tested them. We said okay, this physical server now can run as a virtual server, that works. You really don't have, even though they announce something where you can take a VMDK to an image, Docker image, you really don't have a clean way to do that unless you think that building a big monolithic container is going to save you time and money. Maybe it will. But there's going to be some sort of application transformation that you have to do to be really successful inside of this new platform in the future. And that's something where I think you're going to have to have partners really ingrained to help build the cultural, help build the bridges to the operational teams, help to show the value to the executive team and why you're going to save money, why you're going to do something more secure, you know, how it's going to benefit you in the future. And those are just pretty big challenges that are out there in front of us. >> Joep? >> Yeah so that's the major issue, right? So from our perspective, we use ISVs for the software we deploy for customers, you know, a lot. I'd probably say like 90% of the applications we deploy, we didn't develop or the customer didn't develop in house. It's just all, you know, standardized V stuff. And having a networks of ISVs around you to help you transition from virtual machines into some kind of container format, to address the bin packing problem, that's going to be, that's going to be the biggest challenge to solve, right? It's not just packing up an application and moving it into a container. It's actually transforming it from whatever it is now into something more efficient, more scalable, more resilient. And that's you know really the issue we're trying to tackle, as far as looking at the ecosystem, looking at how to build our practice around it. It's not just infrastructure anymore. It is really all about the application now. So you have to develop a whole new set of skills. You have to develop new people around you. You have to develop new services. And that's interesting because it does have real advantages for the customers, but it's going to take a while to have that mature to a level the customers can actually pull it off the shelf and implement it in their own companies. >> One thing I think on the infrastructure side that I just was in Visa's use case, they were talking about how they're doing it on bare metal. That's different for us. We've been running virtualization for so long, now to say to the engineers, hey look, we're actually just going to run a Linux operating system, or even a Microsoft operating system now on bare metal, and we're going to run containers and get rid of that hypervisor. That's going to be a pretty unique conversation to have. We've already created the monitoring tools and unit performance tools, looking all at the VM. Now we might go back to just running servers again. It'll be a new challenge. >> Yeah really interesting. So there was a lot of focus in the keynote about how they've been maturing security. Want to get your take on that. You know, two years ago it was like oh wait, that's one of the biggest barriers to putting things in production. It feels at a high level like we've made some good progress. Is security still an issue? Are you comfortable with where we are? Maybe anything that still needs to be done? >> You want to go first? >> Sure. (laughing) >> This is a can of worms. >> Yeah so security is always, you know, it's always a can of worms. But you know, my take on it, it doesn't actually matter if it runs in a container or VM. Like 90% of the threads come from outside the compute right? So it's going to come off the network, off the internet, off the users. So really from a security perspective, I'm kind of ambiguous which way to go. But again, the ecosystem story comes back into play, right? Is the ecosystem mature enough to actually deliver security products for containers? The VMware ecosystem was completely mature in that sense. It can just pick off, you know, 20 products and basically do that same thing. And for Docker, that's going to be, you know, a challenge to say the least, to get up to a point where you can pick whatever you actually need. And it's going to be a discovery and it's going to be a little while before we get there. >> Yeah, so I have to read through your tweets to find the answer, John? >> No, no, I'll give you, I think well, security's a mess kind of in general but it's, I think some of the things that they're doing you know, early on, that before there's any critical mass adoption yet, making sure encrypted traffic and handling TLS certificates in an easy fashion, that's great. I was impressed with the notary function, where it can go and look at the image and know if there's any vulnerabilities, and go and identify the problems. It really helps the developers kind of understand the operational asks that people actually have to make sure, okay look, you're going to roll out this new image, this new code? Let's make sure it's secure to get started, at least. We all know it's going to kind of, maybe fall out of the norm once it actually gets up and running operational and production. But let's make sure it's secure at least to boot the thing. >> What do you see containers, when does it have a significant impact on your business? Does it transform the way that you deliver your service? Will it change pricing? >> Yeah, I think it's going to. I mean, a few things that are going to happen. I mean, it's going to increase in scale, so you're going to have more to actually manage, which is going to be a new challenge. That's one side of it. But you're going to probably end up consuming more infrastructure in the long run. And that infrastructure is going to get commoditized even more than it already is right now. And you're going to have to make sure that that's down to the minimum dollars or the minimum cents that you need to provide that very small segment of actual storage or RAM or compute that you need. And that's going to really shift the business. And especially when you look at a lot of containers where you have some that may be run on a monthly basis, a lot of them are only going to be running maybe a few seconds, a few minutes. So you're going to have to have very granular tracking and understanding for that show back charge back to the CFO that you're actually running the services for so they know exactly what they can expect for the bill that month. That's really different than what we're doing today. >> You know will that be a challenge for you to continue to compete against the public clouds, where it seems that that's a more natural fit for some of the pricing and the models that they've built? >> I don't think so. I think this is something where you're even getting more high touch with the application. You know, data sovereignty, that was listed up there I think on Met Life's use case today. That's always going to be important. They're going to want to know where the data's living, why it's living there, how to audit, how to do compliance against it. That's always going to be really important, that'll make us be a little bit different than the public cloud. >> Alright, your business? >> So I agree, right. So the pricing is going to be something to kind of readjust. But I kind of see a lot of advantages in terms of security, the secure software supply chain. So I'm really liking that message. So instead of having a big unknown in terms of whatever is coming into your data center, you now can say with a certain degree of certainty that the application you are running is secure, it's been tested, it's been tested by the compliance team. And I think enterprises in the end are really looking at how to mitigate those security risks and having such a secure software supply chain is absolutely going to help in that respect. >> Alright, so what feedback would you give to the community, what more do you want to see developed, areas where you think we need to make some progress, you know? Joep, I'll start with you. >> So the biggest is monolithic applications. So a lot of enterprises still have legacy applications. >> Well, you've got Oracle in the Docker store now. >> Yeah, exactly. (laughs) But it's still a monolith, right? So addressing that problem one way or the other, but especially in terms of availability, recoverability, I think that's one major area where Docker needs to focus on in the coming months. >> Alright, so John, same question, with a little twist for you is what you'd like to see and anything that if you're talking to VM Ware, what they should be doing more in this space. >> Okay, yeah. I think, I want to see from Docker a lot more use cases. I want to see them start to build their user group and community a little bit more, a lot more sharing needs to occur. The use case session that they had, it was basically two days of use cases running, were great. A lot of those companies, I had a hard time relating to my customers, I mean, Visa, Met Life, they're huge. I really don't, our service, you know, small to medium into the large, but those, they don't have the same use cases. So continue to focus on, you know, how we can actually work on this together with these new customers. On the VMware side of it, VMware's in every data center in the world. And they have a story around VIC, they have a story around Photon. They need to continue to figure out how to build that bridge to, maybe that VM decay to container tool that they have. Work on it together, see what you can do together to take this on to the next level of understanding of really how we can actually transform these applications that were all built in Vms. >> Alright, well, John, Joep, really appreciate you guys coming through. You never hold back sharing your opinions on it. Look forward to reading, I'm sure you'll probably do write ups from the show, too. And we've actually got Visa on as our next guest here. You've probably given me a couple of questions to ask there too, when I go into it. But getting towards the end of Cube's coverage here at DockerCon 2017. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020 virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi, and welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Joep Piscaer, I'm covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. And I'm joined by Commvault, Mathew Pearson, he's a Senior Product Manager, as well as David Ngo, Vice President of Metallic Products and Engineering to talk about the cloud native space and data protection in the Cloud Native space. So both, welcome to the show. And I want to start off with kind of the why question, right? Why are we here obviously, but also why are we talking about data protection? I thought we had that figured out. So David, can you shed some light on how, data protection is totally different in the cloud native container space? >> Sure, absolutely, thank you. I think the thing to keep in mind is that, containers are an evolution and a revolution actually in the virtualization space in the cloud space. What we're seeing is that customers are turning more and more to SaaS based applications and infrastructure in order to modernize their data centers and their data state in their compute environments. And when they do that, they're looking for solutions that match how they deploy their applications. And SaaS for us is an important area of that space. So, Metallic is Commvault portfolio of SaaS delivered and SaaS native data protection capabilities and offerings to allow customers to take the advantage of the best SaaS that is easy to try, easy to buy, easy to deploy, no infrastructure required and combine that with the technology and experience of Commvault. It'll build over last 20 years to deliver an enterprise grade data protection solution delivered as SaaS. And so, with Kubernetes and deploying in the cloud and modernizing applications I think that's very appealing to customers to also be able to modernize their data protection. >> Yeah, so I get the SaaS part. I mean, SaaS is an important way of delivering services. It is especially in the mid-market, something customers prefer, they want to have that simplicity, that easy onboarding as well as the OPEX of paying a subscription fee instead of longer term fees. So, the delivery model makes sense that fits into, the paradigm of making it simple, getting started easily. I get that, but Metallic isn't a traditional backup solution in that sense, right? It's not backing up necessarily just physical machines or just virtual machines. It has a relevance in the cloud native space. And the way I understand it, and please, if you can shed some light on that, Matt, is how is it different? What does it do that kind of makes it stand apart? >> Yeah, look, what we've found is the application developers can be in control now. So it's not like a traditional backup, that's what's changed. At this point, the application developer is free to create the infrastructure that he or she needs. And that freedom has meant that a bunch of stateful applications, the apps that we didn't think were going to live in Kubernetes have made their way to Kubernetes and they're making their way fast. So why is Metallic different? Because it's taking its lead from the developer. So it's using things like namespaces and label selectors. So basically take input from the developer on what information is important and needs to be protected and then protecting it. So it's your easy button to keep that Kubernetes development protected while you keep pace with the innovation within the organization. >> So you raise a valid point, cloud native has many advantages. It also has an extra challenge to account for which is fragmentation, right? In the olden days, let's call it that. We had a virtual machine, maybe a couple dozen that made up an application. And it was fairly easy to pinpoint the kind of the sort of conference of an application. This is my application. But now with cloud native, applications data can basically live anywhere. In a single cloud vendor, in many different cloud accounts, across different services, even across the public clouds themselves, like in a true multi-cloud scenario and figuring out what is part of an application in that enormous fragmentation is a challenge I think is understated and underestimated in a lot of operational environments with customers, with their applications in production. And that's where I think a product needs to figure out how to make sure an application is still backed up, is still protected in the way that is necessary for that given application. So I wonder how that works with Metallic. How do you kind of figure out what part of that enormous fragmentation is part of a single application? >> Yeah, so Metallic effectively integrates and speaks natively with the kube-apiserver. So it's taking its lead from the system of truth which is the orchestrator, which is Kubernetes itself. So for example, if you say everything in your production namespace needs protection, every night or every four hours, whatever that may be, it steps out and asks Kubernetes what applications exist there. It then maps all of the associated API resources associated with that application including the persistent volumes and persistent volume claims, man throws up and grabs the data from them as well. And that allows us to then reapply or reschedule that application either back to that original cluster or to another one for application mobility, where they are. >> So how do you make sure you, it kind of, what's the central point where everything comes together for that given application? Is that something the developer does as part of their release process or as part of their CICD? How do you figure out what components are part of an application? >> That is definitely a big challenge in the industry today? So, today we use label selectors predominantly. We find developers have been educating us on what works for them. And they've said, "Our CICD system is going "to label everything associated with this app, "as namespaced, then non-named space resources. 'So just here, take my label, grab everything under that, "and you will be good." The reality is that doesn't work for every business. Some businesses drop things into a specific namespace. And then you've got the added challenge that all of your data doesn't actually just live in Kubernetes. What about your image registries? What about it HCD? What about your Source Code Control and CICD systems? So we're finding that even VMs as well are playing a part in this ecosystem right now until applications can fully migrate. >> Yeah, and then let's zoom out on that a little bit. I mean, I think it's great that developers now kind of have flipped the paradigm where backup and data protection used to be something squarely in the OPS domain. It's now made its way into the .dev domain where it's become fairly easy to tag resources as application X, application Y, and then it automatically gets pulled into the backup based on policies. I mean, that's great, but let's zoom out a little bit and figure out, why is this happening? Why are developers even being put in a position of backing up their applications? So David, do you want to shed some light on that for me? >> Sure, I think data protection is always going to be a requirement and you'll have persistent data, right? There are other elements of applications that will always need to be protected and data protection is often something that is an afterthought, but it's something that needs to be considered from the beginning. And Metallic in being able to support deployments, not just in the cloud, but on-premises as well. We support any number of certified distributions of Kubernetes, gives you the flexibility to make sure that there was apps and that data is protected no matter where it lives. Being able to do that from a single pane of glass, being able to manage your Kubernetes deployments in different environments is very important there. >> So let's dive into that a little bit. I hear you say, Certified Kubernetes Distributions. So what's kind of the common denominator we need to use Metallic in an environment? Because I hear On-Prem, I hear public cloud. So it seems to me like this is a pretty broad product in terms of what it supports in its scope. But what's the lowest common denominator for instance, in the On-Prem environment? >> Sure, so we support all CNCF certified distributions of Kubernetes today. And in the cloud, we support Azure with AKS and AWS with EKS. So you can really use the one Metallic environment, the one interface to be able to manage all of those environments. >> And so what about that storage underneath? Is that all through CSI? >> Yes. So we support CSI on the backend of the Kubernetes applications, and we can then protect all the data stored there. >> And so how does this, I mean, you acquired Hedvig about a year ago, I want to say. Not sure on the exact date, but you acquired Hedvig a little while ago. So how does that come into play in Metallic offering? >> Sure, the Hedvig distributed storage platform is a fantastic platform on which to provision and scale Kubernates's applications and clusters. And that having full integration with Kubernetes on the storage side, we support that natively and really builds on the value that Commvault can bring as a whole with all of its offerings as a platform to Kubernetes. >> All right. So, zooming out just a little more, I want to get a feel for the cover of the portfolio of Commvault, as we're ushering into this cloud native era, as we're helping customers make that move and make that transition. What's the positioning of Metallic basically in the transformation customers are going through from On-Prem kind of lift and shift cloud into the cloud native space? >> Yeah, so with today's announcements, our hybrid cloud support and our hybrid cloud initiatives really help customers manage data wherever it lives as I've mentioned earlier. Customers can start with workloads On-Prem and start protecting workloads that they either have migrated or starting to build in the cloud natively and really cover the gamut of infrastructure and hypervisors and file systems and storage locations amongst all of these locations. So from our perspective, we think that hybrid is here to stay, right? There are very few customers who are either going to be all on-premises or all in the cloud. Most customers have some requirement that keeps them in a hybrid configuration, and we see that being prevalent for quite some time. So supporting customers in their transformation, right? Where they are moving applications from on-premises to the cloud, either refactoring or lift and shift, or what have you. It's very important to them, it's very important for us to be able to support that motion. And we look forward to helping them along the way. >> Awesome, so one last question for Matt. I mean, Metallic is a set of servers, right? That means you run it, you operate it, you build it. So I wonder, is Metallic itself cloud native? How does it scale? What are kind of the big components that Metallic has made up of? >> So Metallic itself is absolutely cloud native. It is sitting inside Azure today. I won't go into all the details. In fact, David could probably provide far more detail there. But I think Metallic is cloud native with respect to the fact that it's speaking natively to your applications, your cloud instances, your Vms. And then it's giving you the agility and the ability to move them where you need them to be. And that's assisting people in that migration. So in the past, we helped people get from P to V. Now that there are virtualized, applications like Metallic can protect you wherever you are and get you to wherever you need to be, especially into your next cloud of choice. And there's always another cloud. What I'm interested to see and what I'm hoping to see out of KubeCon is how are we doing with KubeVirt and Kubernetes becoming the orchestrator of the data center. And how are we doing with some of these other projects like application CRDs and hierarchical namespaces that are truly going to build a multi-tenanted software defined, distributed application ecosystem, that Metallic I can speak natively to via Kubernetes. >> Awesome. Well, thank you both for being with me here today. I certainly learned a ton about Metallic. I learned a lot about the challenges in cloud native that'll certainly be an area of development in the next couple of years. As you know, that the CNCF will continue to support projects in this space and vendors to work with us in that space as well. So that's it for now. I'm Joep Piscaer, I'm covering for KubeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. I will see you next time, thanks. (bright upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. With coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020, virtual. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Joep Piscaer. Welcome to theCUBEs coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2020. So I'm joined today by Matt Kixmoeller, he's VP of strategy at Pure Storage, as well as Michael Ferranti, he's the senior director of product marketing at Portworx now acquired by Pure Storage. Fellows, welcome to the show. >> Thanks here. >> I want to start out with you know , how about the lay of the land of storage in the Cloud Native space in the Kubernetes space. You know, what's hard? what's happening? What are the trends that you see going on? Matt, if you could shed some light on that for me? >> Yeah, I think you know, from a Pure point of view obviously we just told customers will they maturing their comprehensive deployments and particularly leaning towards persistant, you know applications and so you know we noticed within our customer base that there was quite a lot of deployments of a Portworx on Pure Storage. And that inspired us to start talking to one another you know, almost six plus months ago that eventually ended in us bringing the two companies together. So it's been a great journey from the Pure point of view, bringing Portworx into the Pure family. And, you know, we're working through now with our joint customers, integration strategies and how to really broaden the use of the technology. So that's quite exciting times for us. >> And of course, it's good to hear that the match goes beyond just the marketing color, like the brand color. >> Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the fact that both companies were orange and you know, their logo looked like kind of a folded up version of ours, just started things off on the right foot >> A match made in heaven, right? So I want to talk a little bit about you know, the acquisition, what's happened there and especially, you know looking at Portworx as a company, and as a product set, it's fairly popular in the cloud community. A lot of traction with customers. So I want to zoom in on the acquisition itself and kind of the roadmap going forward merging the two companies and adding Portworx to that Pure portfolio. Matt, if you could shed some light on that as well. >> Yeah. Why don't I start and then Michael can jump in as well? So, you know, we at Pure had been really working for years now to outfit our all flash storage arrays for the container use case and shipped a piece of software that we call PSO. That was really a super CSI driver that allowed us to do intelligent placement of you know, persistent volumes on Pure arrays. But the more time we spent in the market, the more we just started to engage with customers and realized that there were a whole number of use cases that didn't really want a hardware based solution, you know. They either wanted to run completely in the cloud, hybrid between on-prem and cloud and leverage bare metal hardware. And so you know, we came to the conclusion that you know, first off, although positioning arrays for the market was the right thing to do, we wouldn't really be able to serve the broader needs restoratively for containers, if you did that. And then, you know, the second thing I think was that we heard from customers that they wanted a much richer data management stack. You know, it's not just about providing the business versus the volume for the container, but you know, all the capabilities around snapshoting and replication and mobilization and mobility between on-prem and cloud were necessary. And so, you know, Portworx we bought to bear not only a software based solution into our portfolio, but really that full data management stack platform in addition to just storage. And so as we look to integrate our product lines you know, we're looking to deliver a consistent experience for data management, for Kubernetes whatever infrastructure customer would like to, whether they want to run on all flash arrays, white box servers, bare metal, VMs or on cloud storage as well. You know, all of that can have a consistent experience with the Portworx platform. >> Yeah, and because you know, data management especially in this world of containers is you know, it's a little more difficult it's definitely more fragmented across you know, multiple clouds, multiple cloud vendors, multiple cloud services, multiple instances of a service. So the fragmentation has you know, given IT departments quite the headache in operationally managing all that. So Michael you know, what's kind of the use case for Portworx in this fragmented cloud storage space. >> Yeah. It's a great question. You know, the used cases are many and varied, you know to put it in a little bit of historical perspective you know, I've been attending coupons either (indistinct) for about five or six years now, kind of losing count. And we really started seeing Kubernetes as kind of an agile way to run CI/CD environments and other test dev environments. And there were just a handful of customers that were really running production workloads at the very, very beginning. If you fast forward to today, Kubernetes is being used to tackle some of the biggest central board level problems that enterprises face, because they need that scale and they need that agility. So you know, COVID's accelerated that. So we see customers say in the retail space, who are having to cope with a massive increase in traffic on their website. People searching for kind of you know, the products that they can't find anywhere else. Are they available? Can I buy them online? And so they're re-architecting those web services to use often open source databases in this case Elasticsearch, in order to create a great user experiences. And they're managing that across clouds and across environments using Kubernetes. Another customer that I would say kind of a very different use case but also one that matches that scale would be Esri which unfortunately the circumstances of becoming a household name are a lot of the covert tracking ArcGIS system to keep track of, tracing and outbreaks. They're running that service in the cloud using Portworx. And again, it's all about how do we reliably and agilely deploy applications that are always available and create that experience that our customers need. And so we see kind of you know, financial services doing similar things healthcare, pharmaceutical, doing similar things. Again, the theme is it's the biggest business problems that we're using now, not just the kind of the low hanging fruit as we used to talk about. >> Yeah exactly. Because you know storage, is it a lot of the times it's kind of a boiler plate functionality you know, it's there it works. And if it doesn't, you know, the problem with storage in a cloud data space is that fragmentation right? Is that enormous you know, on the one hand that you don't have a scale on the other hand, the tons of different services that can hold data that need protecting as well as data management. So I want to zoom in on a recent development in the Portworx portfolio where the PX backup product has spun out its own little product. You know, what's the strategy there, Michael? >> Yeah, so I think, you know fundamentally data protection needs to change in a Kubernetes context. The way in which we protected applications in the past was very closely related to the way in which we protected servers. Because we would run one app per server. So if we protected the server our application was protected. Kubernetes breaks that model now an individual application is made up of dozens or hundreds of components that are spread across multiple servers. And you have container images, you have configuration I mean you have data, and it's very difficult for any one person to understand where any of that is in the cluster at any given moment. And so you need to leverage automation and the ability for Kubernetes to understand where a particular set of components is deployed and use that Kubernetes native functionality to take what we call application aware backups. So what PX backup provides is data protection engineered from the ground up for this new application delivery model that we see within Kubernetes. So unlike traditional backup and recovery solutions that were very machine focused, we can allow a team to back up a single application within their Kubernetes cluster, all of the applications in a namespace or the entire cluster all at once, and do so in a self-service manner where integrated with your corporate identity systems individuals can be responsible for protecting their own applications. So we marry kind of a couple of really important concepts. One is kind of the application specific nature of Kubernetes the self service desire of DevOps teams, as well as with the page you go model, where you can have this flexible consumption model, where as you grow, you can pay more. You don't have to do an upfront payment in order to protect your Kubernetes applications. >> Yeah. I think one key thing that Michael hit on was just how this obligation is designed to fit like a glove with the Kubernetes admin. I see a lot of parallels to what happened over a decade ago in the VMware space when you know, VMware came about they needed to be backed up differently. And a little company called Veem built a tool that was purpose-built for it. And it just had a really warm embrace by the VMware community because it really felt like it was built for them, not some legacy enterprise backup application that was forced to fit into this new use case. And you know, we think that the opportunity is very similar on Kubernetes backup and perhaps the difference of the environment is even more profound than on the VMware side where you know, the Kubernetes admin really wants something that fits in their operational model, deploys within the cluster itself, backs up to object storage. Is just perfect purpose-built for this use case. And so we see a huge opportunity for that, and we believe that for a lot of customers, this might be the easiest place for them to start trying to Portworx portfolio. You know, you've got an existing competitors cluster download this, give it a shot, it'll work on any instructions you've got going with Kubernetes today. >> And especially because, you know, looking at the kind of breakdown of Kubernetes in a way data is, you know, infrastructure is provisioned. Data is placing in cloud services. It's no longer the cluster admin necessarily, that gets to decide where data goes, what application has access to it, you know, that's in the hands of the developers. And that's a pretty big shift you know, it used to be the VI admin the virtualization admin that did that, had control over where data was living, where data was accessed out, how it was accessed. But now we see developers kind of taking control over their infrastructure resources. They get to decide where it runs, how it runs what services to use, what applications to tie it into. So I'm curious, you know, how our Portworx and PX backup kind of help the developer stay in control and still have that freedom of choice. >> Yeah, we think of it in terms of data services. So I have a database and I needed to be highly available. I needed to be encrypted, backed up. I might need a DR. An off site DR schedule. And with Portworx, you can think about adding these services HA, security, backup, capacity management as really just I want to check a box and now I have this service available. My database is now highly available. It's backed up, it's encrypted. I can migrate it. I can attach a backup schedule to it. So 'cause within a Kubernetes cluster some apps are going to need that entire menu of services. And some apps might not need any of those services because we're only in Testa phage, everything is multiplexed into a single cluster. And so being able to turn off and turn on these various data services is how we empower a developer, a DevOps team to take an application all the way from test dev, into production, without having to really change anything about their Kubernetes deployments besides, you know, a flag within their YAML file. It makes it really, really easy to get the performance and the security and the availability that we were used to with VM based applications via that admin now within Kubernetes. >> So Matt, I want to spend the last couple of minutes talking about the bigger picture, right? We've talked about Portworx, PX backup. I want to take a look at the broader storage picture of cloud native and kind of look at the Pure angle on the trends on what you see happening in this space. >> Yeah absolutely. You know, a couple of high-level things I would, you know, kind of talk about, you know, the first buzz that I think, you know hybrid cloud deployments are the de facto now. And so when people are picking storage, whether they be you know, a storage for a traditional database application or next gen application, cloud native application, the thought from the beginning is how do I architect for hybrid? And so you know, within the Pure portfolio, we've really thought about how we build solutions that work with cloud native apps like Portworx, but also traditional applications. And our cloud block store allows you know, those to be mobilized to the cloud without, with minimal re-architecture. Another big trend that we see is the growth of object storage. And, you know if you look at the first generation of object storage, object storage is what? 15 plus years old and many of the first deployments were characterized by really low costs low performance, kind of the last retention layer if you will, for unimportant content. But then this web application thing happens and people started to build web apps that used object storage as their primary storage. And so now, as people try to bring those cloud native applications on-prem and build them in a multicloud way there's a real growth in the need for you know, high-performance kind of applications object storage. And so we see this real change to the needs and requirements on the object storage landscape. And it's one that in particular, we're trying to serve with our FlashBlade product that provides a unified file and object access, because many of those applications are kind of graduating from file or moving towards object, but they can't do that overnight. And so being able to provide a high-performance way to deliver unstructured data (indistinct) object files solve is very strategic right now. >> Well, that's insightful. Thanks. So I want to thank you both for being here. And, you know, I look forward to hearing about Portworx and Pure in the future as is acquisition. You know, it integrates and new products and new developments come out from the Pure side. So thanks both for being here and thank you at home for watching. I'm Joep Piscaer, thanks for watching the theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2020. Thanks. >> Yeah. Thanks too. >> Yeah. Thank you. (gentle music)

>> From around the globe, it's theCUBE! With coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2020, virtual. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and ecosystem partners. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2020 in Europe. Of course the event this year was supposed to be in the Netherlands, I know I was very much looking forward to going to Amsterdam. This year of course it's going to be virtual, I'm really excited theCUBE's coverage, we've got some great members of the CNCF, we've got a bunch of end users, we've got some good thought leaders, and I'm also bringing a little bit of the Netherlands to help me bring in and start this keynote analysis, happy to welcome back to the program my cohost for the show, Joep Piscaer, who is an industry analyst with TLA. Thank you, Joep, so much for joining us, and we wish we could be with you in person, and check out your beautiful country. >> Absolutely, thanks for having me Stu, and I'm still a little disappointed we cannot eat the (indistinct foreign term) rijsttafel together this year. >> Oh, yeah, can we just have a segment to explain to people the wonder that is the fusion of Indonesian food and the display that you get only in the Netherlands? Rijsttafel, I seriously had checked all over the US and Canada, when I was younger, to find an equivalent, but one of my favorite culinary delights in the world, but we'll have to put a pin in that. You've had some warm weather in the Netherlands recently, and so many of the Europeans take quite a lot of time off in July and August, but we're going to talk about some hardcore tech, KubeCon, a show we love doing, the European show brings good diversity of experiences and customers from across the globe. So, let's start, the keynote, Priyanka Sharma, the new general manager of the CNCF, of course, just some really smart people that come out and talk about a lot of things. And since it's a foundation show, there's some news in there, but it's more about how they're helping corral all of these projects, of course, a theme we've talked about for a while is KubeCon was the big discussion for many years about Kubernetes, still important, and we'll talk about that, but so many different projects and everything from the sandbox, their incubation, through when they become fully, generally available, so, I guess I'll let you start and step back and say when you look at this broad ecosystem, you work with vendors, you've been from the customer side, what's top of mind for you, what's catching your attention? >> So, I guess from a cloud-native perspective, looking at the CNCF, I think you hit the nail on the head. This is not about any individual technology, isn't about just Kubernetes or just Prometheus, or just service mesh. I think the added value of the CNCF, and the way I look at it at least, looking back at my customer perspective, I would've loved to have a organization curate the technology world around me, for me. To help me out with the decisions on a technology perspective that I needed to make to kind of move forward with my IT stack, and with the requirements my customer had, or my organization had, to kind of move that into the next phase. That is where I see the CNCF come in and do their job really well, to help organizations, both on the vendor side as well as on the customer side, take that next step, see around the corner, what's new, what's coming, and also make sure that between different, maybe even competing standards, the right ones surface up and become the de facto standard for organizations to use. >> Yeah, a lot of good thoughts there, Joep, I want to walk through that stack a little bit, but before we do, big statement that Priyanka made, I thought it was a nice umbrella for her keynote, it's a foundation of doers powering end user driven open-source, so as I mentioned, you worked at a service provider, you've done strategies for some other large organizations, what's your thought on the role of how the end users engage with and contribute to open-source? One of the great findings I saw a couple years ago, as you said, it went from open-source being something that people did on the weekend to the sides, to many end users, and of course lots of vendors, have full-time people that their jobs are to contribute and participate in the open-source communities. >> Yeah, I guess that kind of signals a maturity in the market to me, where organizations are investing in open-source because they know they're going to get something out of it. So back in the day, it was not necessarily certain that if you put a lot of effort into an open-source project, for your own gain, for your own purposes, that that would work out, and that with the backing of the CNCF, as well as so many member organizations and end user organizations, I think participating in open-source becomes easier, because there's more of a guarantee that what you put in will kind of circulate, and come out and have value for you, in a different way. Because if you're working on a service mesh, some other organization might be working on Prometheus, or Kubernetes, or another project, and some organizations are now kind of helping each other with the CNCF as the gatekeeper, to move all of those technology stacks forward, instead of everyone doing it for themselves. Maybe even being forced to reinvent the wheel for some of those technology components. >> So let's walk through the stack a little bit, and the layers that are out there, so let's start with Kubernetes, the discussion has been Kubernetes won the container orchestration battles, but whose Kubernetes am I going to use? For a while it was would it be distributions, we've seen every platform basically has at least one Kubernetes option built into it, so doesn't mean you're necessarily using this, before AWS had their own flavor of Kubernetes, there was at least 15 different ways that you could run Kubernetes on top of it, but now they have ECS, they have EKS, even things like Fargate now work with EKS, so interesting innovation and adoption there. But VMware baked Kubernetes into vSphere 7. Red Hat of course, with OpenShift, has thousands of customers and has great momentum, we saw SUSE buy Rancher to help them move along and make sure that they get embedded there. One of the startups you've worked with, Spectro Cloud, helps play into the mix there, so there is no shortage of options, and then from a management standpoint, companies like Microsoft, Google, VMware, Red Hat, all, how do I manage across clusters, because it's not going to just be one Kubernetes that you're going to use, we're expecting that you're going to have multiple options out there, so it sure doesn't sound boring to me yet, or reached full maturity, Joep. What's your take, what advice do you give to people out there when they say "Hey, okay, I'm going to use Kubernetes," I've got hybrid cloud, or I probably have a couple things, how should they be approaching that and thinking about how they engage with Kubernetes? >> So that's a difficult one, because it can go so many different ways, just because, like you said, the market is maturing. Which means, we're kind of back at where we left off virtualization a couple years ago, where we had managers of managers, managing across different data centers, doing the multicloud thing before it was a cloud thing. We have automation doing day two operations, I saw one of the announcements for this week will be a vendor coming out with day two operations automation, to kind of help simplify that stack of Kubernetes in production. And so the best advice I think I have is, don't try to do it all yourself, right, so Kubernetes is still maturing, it is still fairly open, in a sense that you can change everything, which makes it fairly complex to use and configure. So don't try and do that part yourself, necessarily, either use a managed service, which there are a bunch of, Spectro Cloud, for example, as well as Platform9, even the bigger players are now having those platforms. Because in the end, Kubernetes is kind of the foundation of what you're going to do on top of it. Kubernetes itself doesn't have business value in that sense, so spending a lot of time, especially at the beginning of a project, figuring that part out, I don't think makes sense, especially if the risk and the impact of making mistakes is fairly large. Like, make a mistake in a monitoring product, and you'll be able to fix that problem more easily. But make a mistake in a Kubernetes platform, and that's much more difficult, especially because I see organizations build one cluster to rule them all, instead of leveraging what the cloud offers, which is just spin up another cluster. Even spin it up somewhere else, because we can now do the multicloud thing, we can now manage applications across Kubernetes clusters, we can manage many different clusters from a single pane of glass, so there's really no reason anymore to see that Kubernetes thing as something really difficult that you have to do yourself, hence just do it once. Instead, my recommendation would be to look at your processes and figure out, how can I figure out how to have a Kubernetes cluster for everything I do, maybe that's per team, maybe that's per application or per environment, per cloud, and they kind of work from that, because, again, Kubernetes is not the holy grail, it's not the end state, it is a means to an end, to get where we're going with applications, with developing new functionality for customers. >> Well, I think you hit on a really important point, if you look out in the social discussion, sometimes Kubernetes and multicloud get attacked, because when I talk to customers, they shouldn't have a Kubernetes strategy. They have their business strategy, and there are certain things that they're trying to, "How do I make sure everything's secure," and I'm looking at DevSecOps, I need to really have an edge computing strategy because that's going to help my business objectives, and when I look at some of the tools that are going to help and get me there, well, Kubernetes, the service meshes, some of the other tools in the CNCF are going to help me get there, and as you said, I've got managed services, cloud providers, integrators are going to help me build those solutions without me having to spend years to understand how to do that. So yeah, I'd love to hear any interesting projects you're hearing about, edge computing, the security space has gone from super important to even more important if that's possible in 2020. What are you hearing? >> Yeah, so the most interesting part for me is definitely the DevSecOps movement, where we're basically not even allowed to call it DevOps anymore. Security has finally gained a foothold, they're finally able to shift lift the security practices into the realm of developers, simplifying it in a way, and automating it in a way that, it's no longer a trivial task to integrate security. And there's a lot of companies supporting that, even from a Kubernetes perspective, integrating with Kubernetes or integrating with networking products on top of Kubernetes. And I think we finally have reached a moment in time where security is no longer something that we really need to think about. Again, because CNCF is kind of helping us select the right projects, helping us in the right direction, so that making choices in the security realm becomes easier, and becomes a no-brainer for teams, special security teams, as well as the application development teams, to integrate security. >> Well, Joep, I'm glad to hear we've solved security, we can all go home now. That's awesome. But no, in all seriousness, such an important piece, lots of companies spending time on there, and it does feel that we are starting to get the process and organization around, so that we can attack these challenges a little bit more head-on. How 'about service mesh, it's one of those things that's been a little bit contentious the last couple of years, of course ahead of the show, Google is not donating Istio to the foundation, instead, the trademark's open. I'm going to have an interview with Liz Rice to dig into that piece, in the chess moves, Microsoft is now putting out a service mesh, so as Corey Quinn says, the plural of service mesh must be service meeshes, so, it feels like Mr. Meeseeks, for any Rick and Morty fans, we just keep pressing the button and more of them appear, which may cause us more trouble, but, what's your take, do you have a service mesh coming out, Kelsey Hightower had a fun little thing on Twitter about it, what's the state of the state? >> Yeah, so I won't be publishing a service mesh, maybe I'll try and rickroll someone, but we'll see what happens. But service meshes are, they're still a hot topic, it's still one of the spaces where most discussion is kind of geared towards. There is yet to form a single standard, there is yet a single block of companies creating a front to solve that service mesh issue, and I think that's because in the end, service meshes are, from a complexity perspective, they're not mature enough to be able to commoditize into a standard. I think we still need a little while, and maybe ask me this question next year again, and we'll see what happens. But we'll still need a little while to kind of let this market shift and let this market innovate, because I don't think we've reached the end state with service meshes. Also kind of gauging from customer interest and actual production implementations, I don't think this has trickled down from the largest companies that have the most requirements into the smaller companies, the smaller markets, which is something that we do usually see, now Kubernetes is definitely doing that. So in terms of service meshes, I don't think the innovation has reached that endpoint yet, and I think we'll still need a little while, which will mean for the upcoming period, that we'll kind of see this head to head from different companies, trying to gain a foothold, trying to lead a market, introduce their own products. And I think that's okay, and I think the CNCF will continue to kind of curate that experience, up to a point where maybe somewhere in the future we will have a noncompeting standard to finally have something that's commoditized and easy to implement. >> Yeah, it's an interesting piece, one of the things I've always enjoyed when I go to the show is just wander, and the things you bump into are like "Oh my gosh, wow, look at all of these cool little projects." I don't think we are going to stop that Cambrian explosion of innovation and ideas. When you go walk around there's usually over 200 vendors there, and a lot of them are opensource projects. I would say many of them, when you have a discussion with them, I'm not sure that there's necessarily a business behind that project, and that's where you also see maturity in spaces. A year or so ago, in the observability space, open tracing helped pull together a couple of pieces. Storage is starting to mature. Doesn't mean we're going to get down to one standard, there's still a couple of storage engines out there, I have some really good discussions this week to go into that, but it goes from, "Boy, storage is a mess," to "Oh, okay, we have a couple of uses," and just like storage in the data center, there's not a box or a protocol to do anything, it's what's your use case, what performance, what clouds, what environments are you living on, and therefore you can do that. So it's good to see lots of new things added, but then they mature out and they consolidate, and as you said, the CNCF is help giving those roadmaps, those maps, the landscapes, which boy, if you go online, they have some really good tools. Go to CNCF, the website, and you can look through, Cheryl Hung put one, I'm trying to remember which, it's basically a bullseye of the ones that, here's the one that's fully baked, and here's the ones that are making its way through, and the customer feedback, and they're going to do more of those to help give guidance, because no one solution is going to fit everybody's needs, and you have these spectrums of offerings. Wild card for you, are there any interesting projects out there, new things that you're hearing about, what areas should people be poking around that might not be the top level big things? >> So, I guess for me, that's really personal because I'm still kind of an infrastructure geek in that sense. So one of the things that really surprised me was a more traditional vendor, Zerto in this case, with a fantastic solution, finally, they're doing data protection for Kubernetes. And my recommendation would be to look at companies like Zerto in the data protection space, finally making that move into containers, because even though we've completed the discussion, stateful versus stateless, there's still a lot to be said for thinking about data protection, if you're going to go all-in into containers and into Kubernetes, so that was one that really provoked my thoughts, I really was interested in seeing, "Okay, what's Zerto doing in this list of CNCF members?" And for that matter, I think other vendors like VMware, like Red Hat, like other companies that are moving into this space, with a regained trust in their solutions, is something that I think is really interesting, and absolutely worth exploring during the event, to see what those more traditional companies, to use the term, are doing to innovate with their solutions, and kind of helping the CNCF and the cloud data world, become more enterprise-ready, and that's kind of the point I'm trying to make, where for the longest time, we've had this cloud-native versus traditional, but I always thought of it like cloud-native versus enterprise-ready, or proven technology. This is kind of for the developers doing a new thing, this is for the IT operations teams, and we're kind of seeing those two groups, at least from a technology perspective, being fused into one new blood group, making their way forward and innovating with those technologies. So, I think it's interesting to look at the existing vendors and the CNCF members to see where they're innovating. >> Well, Joep, you connected a dotted line between the cloud-native insights program that I've been doing, you were actually my first guest on that. We've got a couple of months worth of episodes out there, and it is closing that gap between what the developers are doing and what the enterprise was, so absolutely, there's architectural pieces, Joep, like you, I'm an infrastructure geek, so I come from those pieces, and there was that gap between, I'm going to use VMs, and now I'm using containers, and I'm looking at things like serverless too, how do we built applications, and is it that bottom-up versus top-down, and what a company's needs, they need to be able to react fast, they need to be able to change along the way, they need to be able to take advantage of the innovation that ecosystems like this have, so, I love the emphasis CNCF has, making sure that the end users are going to have a strong voice, because as you said, the big companies have come in, not just VMware and Red Hat, but, IBM and Dell are behind those two companies, and HPE, Cisco, many others out there that the behemoths out there, not to mention of course the big hyperscale clouds that helped start this, we wouldn't have a lot of this without Google kicking off with Kubernetes, AWS front and center, and an active participant here, and if you talk to the customers, they're all leveraging it, and of course Microsoft, so it is a robust, big ecosystem, Joep, thank you so much for helping us dig into it, definitely hope we can have events back in the Netherlands in the near future, and great to see you as always. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right, stay tuned, we have, as I said, full spectrum of interviews from theCUBE, they'll be broadcasting during the three days, and of course go to theCUBE.net to catch all of what we've done this year at the show, as well as all the back history. Feel free to reach out to me, I'm @Stu on Twitter, and thank you, as always, for watching theCUBE. (calm music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders around the globe, these are cloud native insights. >> Welcome to another episode of Cloud Native Insights. I'm your host Stu Miniman and of course with Cloud Native Insights will really help understand you know, where we have gone from cloud, how we are taking advantage of innovation, a real driver for what happens in the spaces of course developers. You think back to the early days, it was often developers that were grabbing a credit card, using cloud services and then it had to be integrated into what was being done and the rest of the organization saw the large rise of DevOps and all the other pieces around that, that help bring in things like security and finance and the like. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest, William Janssen. He is the CEO of DeltaBlue. Deep in this discussion of cloud native DeltaBlue is a European company helping with continuous deployment across cross cloud providers in the space. William, thanks so much for joining us, nice to see you. >> Glad to be on the show, thank you Stu. >> All right, so one of the reasons I'm glad to have you on is because of some of the early episodes here, you know we were discussing really what cloud native is and what it should be. I had my first interview on the program, Joep Piscaer, who you know, had given the analogy and said when you talked about DevOps, DevOps isn't something you could buy. But it's something that lots of vendors would try to sell you. And we're trying to dispel, lots of companies out there, they're like, "Oh, cloud native, well we support Kubernetes. "And we have this tool and you should buy our cloud native, "you know, A, B, C or D." So, want to start a little first with what you see out there and what you think the ultimate goal and outcome of cloud native should be? >> I think cloud native, to start with your last question, I think cloud native should make life fun again. We have a lot of technical problems, we solve them in technical things. You mentioned Kubernetes but Kubernetes is solving a technical problem. And introducing another technical problem. So what I think cloud native should do is focus on what you're actually good at. So a developer should develop. Someone from the infrastructure, an operator, should focus on their key points and not try to mix it up. So, not Kubernetes, Kubernetes is again introducing another technical issue. Our view on cloud native is that people should have fun again and should be focusing on what they're good at. And so it's not about technology, it's about getting the procedures right and focusing on the things you love to do. And not to talk to the cross border, talk to a lot of developers and solve operational kind of things. That's what we try to solve and that's our view of cloud native. >> Yeah, I'll poke that a little bit because one thing you say, people should do what they're good at. It's really what is important for the business, what do we need to get done? There's often new skills that we need to do. So it's really great if we could just keep doing the same thing we're doing. We know how to do it. We optimize it, we play with all of our geek knobs. But the drumbeat that I hear is, we need to be agile, we need to be able to create new applications. IT needs to be responsive for the business and rather than in the past it was about, building this beautiful stack that we could optimize and build these pieces together. Today, the analogy I hear more is, there's layers out there, there's lots of different tooling, especially if you look at the developer world. There is just too many options out there. So, maybe bring us a little bit as to you know, what DeltaBlue does. How you look at allowing developers to build what they, new things that they need but not be, I guess the word, locked into a certain place or certain technology. >> Yes, I've been on IT for 20 years. So I've seen a lot of things go around. And when we started out with DeltaBlue, the only thing we had in mind is how could we make the lifecycle of applications and all the things you had to do, the government around applications way more easy. Back in the days, we already saw that containerization solved some of the issues. But it solves technical issues. So like when you start coding, you don't need to go to the network card anymore. We took the same approach to our cloud native approach. So we started on the top level. We started with applications in mind. And the things back in the day you had Bitnami already had the option to have a VM or standard installation of an application. So what we see is that nowadays, many developers and many organizations try to focus on that specific part, how to get your code into some kind of under configuration solution. We take that for granted. There are so many great solutions out there, already tried to solve that problem. So instead of reinventing that wheel again, we take that for granted. But we take another approach. We think that if the application is there, you need to test it. You need to take it into production. You want to have several versions of a specific application into the production environment. So what we've tried to solve with our platform is to make that part of the life cycle, let's call it horizontal version of your application lifecycle, not getting an application built or running up different stuff, we take that for granted. We take the horizontal approach. How to get your traditional application from your development environment to your testing, acceptance. That's a different kind of people test your application, security testing before you take it into production. And that should be all be done from a logical point of view. So we built one web interface, a logical portal. And you can simply drag and drop any type of application, not just a more than micro service oriented or Kubernetes based application but any type of application from your acceptance environment to your production environment. That's going to solve the real problem. So now, any business can have 10 different acceptance environments for even your old legacy SAP or your Intershop environment. That's going to get your business value. So going back to your definition of cloud native, getting that kind of abstraction between getting your and code your application and get it get somewhere up and running and all the stuff that's needs to be done from your development environment into the production environment. That's going to add to your business value. That's going to speed up your time to market, that's going to make sure that you have a better cloud quality because now you can test even your legacy application from 10 different points of view and 10 different types of different branches, all in a parallel environment. So, when we started with DeltaBlue, we took a different approach, took the technical stuff for granted, and focus on all the government around applications and the governance that's the thing, I think that's the most important part in the cloud native discussion. >> So governance, especially in Europe, has a lot of importance there. If you could, bring us inside a little bit, customers you're talking to, where they are in this journey. If you've got an example of something you're doing specifically we'd love to hear how that happens in real world. >> Yes we have many different customers but I think one of our best examples, for example is Wunderman Thompson, a big eCommerce party across the globe but also here in the Netherlands. And we made a blueprint of their development environment the way they develop application and the way they host applications. So, now they started a new project, 40 developers go to the new big eCommerce application. In the past, everyone had to install their own Intershop environment on their own laptop, Java, Oracle, that kind of stuff. It took me a day and a half. Since we abstracted that into like a simple cell, like you would do in any serverless environment nowadays, they can now simply click on a button. And since they made their laptop or their development environment part of our platform, they can now simply drag and drop the complete initial environment to the laptop and they can send development in 10 minutes instead of a day and a half. That's just the first step that makes their life easier. But also imagine, we have an application up and running for two, three months and our security patch, we all know the trouble of getting a patch installed in production but also then install it into the acceptance environment, test environment, development environment, all those kind of different versions. With our platform, since we have the application in mind, we can, with simple one simple click of the button, we can propagate that security patch across all the different environments. So from a developer point of view, there's no need to have any kind of knowledge of course they need to configure a port or something like that but no need of knowledge of any type of infrastructure anymore. We have made the same blueprint for the complete development environment. So with a single click of the button, they have a complete detail environment, known over the need to go to their infrastructure to get the service to their operating guys, they have them installed, industrial Nexus, very book of repository, all that kind of stuff. It's all within one blueprint. So again, we think that the application should come first. That should be abstracted, and not abstracted just in a single spin up a container or spinning up a VM. Now, the complete business case, application, complete environment should be up and running with a single click of a button. So now they can start if they have a demo tomorrow, for example, and they want to have a demo setup. With a single click, they have a complete environment up and running, instead of having to wait three weeks, four weeks before they can start coding. And the same comes with a production environment. We now have an intelligent proxy in front of it. So they can have three different versions of the same shot in their production environment. And based on business rules, we can spread the load against the different versions of a business application, eCommerce application. We signed a new contract with New Relic last week. And the next thing we're going to do, and it's going to be there in two weeks, is fit New Relic data, I mean, an eCommerce application is about performance. A longer response time of a page page load time will drop your drop your revenue. So what we're going to do with New Relic is feed it's performance data back into that the intelligent proxy in front of their application. So now they're going to drop the new version of their intershop application on a Thursday evening, they go to sleep. Friday morning, they wake up and from the three versions, and the best performing website will be up and running. That's the kind of intelligence and that's the kind of feedback we can put into our platform since we started with applications in mind first. It's getting better quality, because you can do better testing. I mean, we all want to test, but we never want to wait for those different kinds of setups, they want to have fast development cycles. That kind of flexibility where you do the functional deployment, the functional release, not the technical stuff. What we now see in the market is that most people, when they go to the cloud, try to solve the technical release problems of getting the application up and running in a technical way into the production time, we try to focus on the functional level. >> So, William, being data driven, a very important piece of what you talked about there. What I want to help our audience understand is concerns about if you talk about abstractions, or if you want to be able to live across different environments, is can you take advantage of the full capabilities of the underlying platform? Because, that is, one of the reasons we go to cloud isn't just because it's got limitless compute Pricing comes down. But there's only new features coming out, or I want to be able to go to, a cloud provider and take advantage of some specific feature. So help us understand how I can live across these environments, but still take advantage of those cloud native features and innovations as they come out. >> Great. There are actually two ways. For most alternatives, we also have an alternative component in our platform as well. We have complete marketplace with all kinds of functionality like AWS has, but I can imagine that people want to develop an AWS and get our AWS lambda functions or s3 buckets or that that kind of specific functionality. And going back to the Intershop example, they run their application as a CaaS solution on Azure. So when you went to Azure DevOps, or that kind of specific functionality included, our platform connects over 130 different data centers across the globe and Azure and AWS, and Oviedo Digital Ocean are all part of the huge mix of different cloud providers. For every provider, we have what we call gateway components. We deploy natively, mostly bare metal or equivalents of bare metal within those cloud providers. And we made an abstraction layer on the network layer. So now we can include those kind of specific services like they were part of our platform natively. Because if we would have just build a layer and couldn't use the specific components of an AWS or an Azure or that kind of stuff, we would just be another hosting provider. I haven't liked VMware. So that kind of stuff. We want to and we are aware that we need to include a specific stuff, functionality. And what we do with this with what we call gateway components. So we have AWS, gay components, educators, but also for IBM, or Google specific environment. So we can combine the network of AWS, with our specific network. And that's possible, because we made a complete abstraction layer between the network of the infrastructure provider and our network. So we can complete IP subnets DNS resolver as if it was running on their local environment. And thereby, since we have that abstraction layer, we can even move the workloads on AWS to Azure. And since we have the abstraction layer network, we can even make sure that you don't need to reconfigure your application. I think that's the flexibility that people are looking for. And if they have a specific workload and Azure and it's getting too expensive, for the ones that includes AWS stuff, they want to shift the workload to different kind of cloud providers based on the characteristics of a specific worker, or even if you want to have the cheapest option, you can even use your on premise data center. >> William, do that there absolutely is interest in doing that. One of the barriers to being able to just go between environments is of course that the skills required to do this. So, there's something to be said about, if I use a single provider, I understand how to do it, I understand how to optimize it, I understand the finances of it. And while there may be very similar things in another cloud, or in my own data center, the management tools are different and everything. So how do we overcome, that skill set challenge, between different environments. >> We had a different approach the same as we do it on application level, we took it also in data center level, so we're going to handle most cannot say all because there's always specific components. But from our interface, you can simply go to a specific application and select the type of data center you want to run on your application. And if your application is running on an AWS, you get the gateway components with the components, like an s3 bucket or a lambda or an RDS, based on the data center you're running in. So we took that abstraction layer even on that level. But I got to be honest, I think 80% of our customers is not interested in the data center, they run their application in unless they have specific functionality, and which is not available on our platform, or they have a long running application, or use a specific or they bought a specific application. Otherwise, they don't care. Because from a traditional application, there is no difference between running on Azure or Google Cloud or an IBM cloud or whatever. The main difference is that we can make a guarantee about the SLA. I mean, IBM has a better uptime guarantee. A better performance and a better network compared to let's say, digitalocean. Kind of set this up. But there is a huge difference. But it's more like the guarantee that we can give them. So we have this abstraction layers, and we try to put as many as possible as much as possible into our portal interface. There will no way that we're going to redesign and we work about the complete AWS interface, or we're not going to include 100% of their functionality. That's not possible. We're, small company. AWS is somewhat more developers in place. But the main components and people are asking for like RDS or these kind of specific setups, that's where we have the gateway components for available and they can include them into their own application. But we also going to advise them why they were looking for those specific AWS components. Is it within the application architecture or is it something gauges right? Isn't there a better solution or an other solution? And I think, since we have that objection that one of the biggest benefits is, and what we see our customers also do is we incorporate that data center into our platform. And we have one huge network across all the cloud providers and including their own data center. So in the past, they had to have two different development teams, one specialized in AWS development, with all that kind of specific stuff. And all one development team which had more like a traditional point of view, because their internal system and data which was not allowed to go outside the company or had to stay within the firewall. And since we have now one big network, which is transparent to them, we can make sure that their code for their internal systems stays internal and is running on internal systems. But we could still use some kind of functionality from the outside. We do it all unencrypted today, and we have one big platform available. So with our gateway components, we can make sure that that data and application data is really staying internally. And only is allowed to grow internal data access and that kind of stuff, but still use external functionality or price. But again, I would say 80% of our customers, they don't care because they just want to get rid of the burden. I think going back to what we think cloud native means is just getting rid of the burden. And you shouldn't be concerned about what type of cloud we're actually using. >> Absolutely, William, the goal of infrastructure support, my applications and my data and we want companies to be able to focus on what is important for the business and not get bogged down and certain technical arguments introduction. So William, thank you so much for joining us. Really great to hear about Delta blue. Looking forward to hearing more in the future. >> Thank you. >> I'm Stu Miniman. And look forward to hearing more of your cloud native insights.

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018 brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Nutanix's .NEXT 2018 here in London, England. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host is Joep Piscaer. 3500 here in attendance. Actually in the closing keynote, we just listened to Dr. Jane Goodall talk about her life's work, her next, where she's going. Really powerful content here to help round out what we're doing. We're actually really thrilled to have as our penultimate guest to the program Chetan Conikee who is the founder and CTO of ShiftLeft.io, a customer of Nutanix based out in San Francisco. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you very much for having me Stu and Joep, pleasure. >> So Chetan, ShiftLeft.io, tell us a little bit about that. We love to hear from founders. What was the why, what did you see out there? What were you looking to do and then we'll get into it from there. >> Absolutely. We founded ShiftLeft back in December 2016. ShiftLeft is a venture-backed application security company. I co-founded ShiftLeft with the Chief Products Officer of FireEye and one of the core architects at Google. So our reason and emphasis to build out the security company was to essentially make security relevant to what they call as cloud-native applications. So ShiftLeft by virtue of the word meaning shift security to the left is bring securities awareness to the early stages of the software development lifecycle. As engineers write code, we have built a system that in a matter of minutes converts code to a graph, a graph akin to a social network. Almost like a social network graph except that it's connecting all the functions and variables in your code that represent the application. Now using that graph, we extract vulnerabilities that might exist in the code. Now as we know, engineers are focused on velocity, developing software and servicing their customers. So often security gets left behind, which is why we have built this autonomous agent that takes the data that we extracted during coding and protect the application in Runtime from imminent threats. >> Okay, we could spend an hour talking about this. Security is one of the hottest spaces, one of the biggest challenges in kind of modernizing this multi-cloud era, cloud-native absolutely. Maybe you'll be at theCUBE Con show in a couple weeks. We can talk even more about that because oh boy, so much to go there but you're a startup and what brings you to Nutanix is I guess the question. Come on, cloud-native, you should be born in the cloud. You're venture-backed, they probably don't want you spending lots of money on infrastructure. So maybe connect the dots with us as to how you ended up with Nutanix. >> Absolutely. The core ethos of ShiftLeft is observing, observing threats in real time and observing vulnerabilities that might exist in code. Observing means we have to make sure that our own infrastructure is protected from threats and at the same time we provide a high accessibility to our customers. Which means that we have to observe our own infrastructure which is why we subscribed early on to a Nutanix product called Epoch. Because the core essence of Epoch is to provide observability to infrastructure. Our infrastructure is very complex because every time engineers write code and commit code into GitHub or any other so-called management system, we react to that and at the same time if any threats are applied, when they deploy that code in production, we react to that as well. So it is important for us to maintain our uptime which is why we use Epoch to continuously observe our system for faults or any threats applied upon our own system and Epoch provides us that service, that service because our infrastructure is very complex. It is comprised of at least about 80 to 100 micro-services deployed in a cloud-native infrastructure. Now all these micro-services are working in concert with each other every time it receives an event, an event of a code check-in from a customer's ecosystem or any threats applied to our customers' infrastructure deployed in their private data centers or their cloud infrastructures. >> So let me get this right. You're a Nutanix customer but I'm guessing you're not the typical customer, right? You are not running their appliance in the data center but you're using different products. So I hear you mentioned Epoch which is observability. So that gives you insight into the system you are running. But to clarify, you're not running Nutanix in your data center? >> Absolutely, we are a cloud-native company. Our infrastructure entirely runs on Masels and Kubernetes which is deployed on AWS, Azure and GCP. So we are a multi-hybrid cloud ecosystem and Nutanix Epoch product is agnostic of the servers because it's a software-defined product that enables us to place hooks in the appropriate places of our software-defined or our software stack and then provide us the necessary observability. Observability from the perspective of latency, throughput or essentially any impact induced upon our infrastructure. >> So you are using it to monitor the sort of applications you're running in micro-services. So this is not even about infrastructure monitoring. This is about your application, it's uptime, error rates, thresholds, stuff like that. >> Absolutely because our system is comprised of a dense micro-service mesh which means that if one micro-service is down, it impacts a set of other micro-services which in turn impacts the customer as well. So what we do is try to identify cause and effect, correlate events and understand this dense and complex infrastructure. Nutanix Epoch has this cloud map feature that enabled us to dynamically plot the entire map of our infrastructure. This is almost akin to Google Maps because you can plot a from and to destination but upon that you might have traffic contention, accidents, tolls and everything else you can think of. So this is a similar situation with very dense and complex infrastructure as well, meaning if one service is down, it has this ripple side effect on other services as well. >> Yeah, I'm actually glad we got to interview you towards the end of our coverage here because one of the things we've been looking at is Nutanix has gone from basically two products to now they have a much broader portfolio. Some of those have been organically and some have been through acquisition. So Epoch which I believe is now under the Xi family, so Xi Epoch, I interviewed back in New Orleans, it was Netsil, Netsil came in through the acquisition. So I believe you've been using it since it was Netsil. >> Absolutely. >> What have you seen? I love kinda your outside viewpoint as to what's that meant to the product? Besides being renamed, what's the same, what's different and how do you see that impacting Epoch going forward? >> Absolutely, great question. For the most part the core product hasn't changed as much. The vision has always been carried on from what it used to be to what it is today. But the product has improved significantly. The user experience has improved significantly and now what they have is the foundation of Nutanix which is critical because there are various other product lines in Nutanix that can serve us better as well along with Epoch and we are looking forward to understanding what Beam is, what X-Ray is and there are various other product lines along with what we are already using at this point. >> Great, so I'm curious your experience here at the show. What brought you to the show? What conversations have you been having with your peers? We talked to Nutanix about what they're doing with the developers and about the cloud native space. How are they doing? You live in that space. How has Nutanix positioned themselves? >> Absolutely, I've been tracking Dheeraj and his crew for quite some time. I think they're doing a phenomenal job moving up the stack because eventually, being cloud native is critical at this point given that the majority of the new SMBs and SMEs are deploying in the cloud. So if Nutanix joins that bandwagon, it makes it relatively easy for Enterprise customers who have deployed in their own private data centers to cloud burst into Nutanix Enterprise Cloud. So over the past two days, the energy has been amazing. I presented with the Epoch crew and we got an amazing response, got to listen to customers. Their curiosity to adopting Epoch, given that they have been using Nutanix and also bursting into cloud native ecosystems as well which is why they want to understand and observe how their workloads are performing in the cloud. So very excited and looking forward to the future for the most part. >> So looking at your product, you deliver it, as I said service. You have software developers that develop that software and based on the announcements Nutanix has made in the last couple of days with Carbon and being able to develop cloud native apps, will that impact how you develop software or how you look at Nutanix as a partner for your company? >> We are growing at a very steady state and given that our core focus is security, some of our customers are on Wall Street which means that they have to ensure that they are deploying or subscribing to a service that has guarantees of its uptime and also that data is effectively protected. So we have commenced our journey as a cloud native company but that shouldn't impede us from moving into a private data center as well because our software fabric can be deployed both in a cloud native ecosystem and also on a private DC as well. So we're looking forward to working with Nutanix as a partner in the future as well if the opportunity permits. >> Yeah, so with the little time we have left, I want to get your viewpoint, talk to us about the security environment today. I'm an infrastructure guy by background and lived through, you've talked about virtualization. Been watching the containerization space, IOT greater increasing the surface area of everything. I know serverless is a whole can of worms as to how that fits in. So as we look to 2019 and going forward, what excites you and what worries you about the security space? >> What excites me is that, you know the surface is essentially getting abstracted. Back almost two decades ago, we were dealing with deploying in physical data centers on physical hosts. That transcended to VMs and then moved to Docker Unikernels and now we are speaking serverless. So in relatively, maybe in a click of a button or a single script, someone can deploy an application and that application can be scaled in a matter of minutes or seconds. So that's very exciting but what worries me is also that with the velocity and complexity, the risk is also getting amplified which means that applications are the target du jour. Applications were always the target du jour and they will continue to be as well because as engineers code even more faster, they will essentially always leave security behind. So it is important to understand the attack surface of the application because if we examine most of the recent attacks like Struts Equifax, the application was compromised and then the attacker laterally moved from host to host until they acquired or hit that asset, which is the data. So it is important to write secure software from the get-go and at the same time it is important to observe how a threat imposed by an adversarial entity correlates to a vulnerability. Which means that we have to be upfront and always observe our security from the very beginning of the software development lifecycle. So it equally excites me and worries me, which is why we decided to found ShiftLeft. >> All right, really appreciate getting to hear about ShiftLeft and your journey and what you're doing with Epoch, so thanks so much for joining us. >> Absolutely. >> And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with more coverage here from Butanix .NEXT 2018 in London, England. Thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (up tempo electronic tones) >> Hi I'm John Walls, I've been with theCUBE for a couple of years serving as a host here on our broadcast, our flagship broadcast on SiliconANGLE TV. I like to think about the how's and the why's and the what's of technology. How does it work, why does it matter? What is it doing for end users? When I think about what theCUBE does and what it means, to me it's an off the chart benefit. The value is just immense because when theCUBE shows up, it puts a stamp of approval on your event that says man, you've arrived. I know you can't be everywhere. You'd like to be but what theCUBE--

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Nutanix .Next 2018 here in London, England. We're gonna be talking about developers in this segment. I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost is Joep Piscaer. Happy to welcome to the program two first time guests, Bala Kuchibhotla is the General Manager of Nutanix Era, and sitting next to him is Greg Muscarella who recently joined Nutanix, is Vice President of Products at Nutanix. Both of you been up on stage, Greg was talking about Carbon and cloud native, and of course Era is the databases of service. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Good to be here. >> Alright, so look, developers. You know, we were thinking back, you know, I love the old meme, developers, developers, developers! Balmer had it right, and style might not have been there. Microsoft, company that does quite well with developers. You know, my background is in the enterprise space. I'm an infrastructure guy that goes to cloud, and the struggle I've had a little bit is, you know, developers really work from the application down. It's like that's where they live, and as an infrastructure guy, it's a little uncomfortable for me. So maybe to set that stage, because you know I look at Nutanix, you know, at it's core, infrastructure's a big piece of it, but its distributed architectures, it's built from the architecture from like really the hyper-scale type of environments. So help connect the dots as to where Nutanix plays with the developers, and then we'll get into your products and everything else after. Bala, you want to start? >> Cool, okay. So as you know, Nutanix is definitely addressing the IT ops market. We cannot simply its storage, compute, networking, and build the infrastructure as service. Obviously if you look at the private cloud, the IT operators are becoming the cloud operators and then giving them to the developers. We are basically trying to build a cloud for IT operators so they can present the cloud to developer. Now that we have this infrastructure pretty much there for quite some time, we're not expanding the services to other things, the platform, the platform as service. Now going back to the developer community, you will have the same kind of cloud-like consumption. That these cloud operators, the IT operators are providing the cloud for you. US developers get the same kind of public cloud consumption. They lack ability, that the ability you are trying to do, easy tools, (mumbling), and S3s, that kind of stuff, EBS, you have the same kind of APS for our Nutanix that you can spin up a VM, spin up a database, spin up a storage and then do what you want to do kind of stuff. So that's the natural journey for that kind of stuff. >> Yeah, Greg? >> Yeah, I have to agree. Look, the world has changed quite a bit for developers, and it's gotten a lot better. If you look at the tooling and what you can now do on your laptop and spinning up what would be a pretty complex environment from a three tier application with a robust database, an app tier, anything else you might have on the storage side, spin it up, break it down, and with your CICD pipeline you can have it deployed to production pretty rapidly. So we look at doing is, you know, recreating that experience that the cloud has really brought to those developers and having the same type of tooling for those enterprise-grade applications that are going to be deployed, you know, on that infrastructure that is needed in private data centers. >> So looking at, you know, one of the reasons why developers love cloud services so much, it's easy for them. They can just consume it, it's very low friction. They don't even really, you know, need to go through a purchasing process, other than credit card maybe paid for themselves in the beginning. So you know, low friction is really the key word here. So I'm wondering, you know, looking at the Nutanix, the IT ops perspective, how are you kinda bring that low friction into the developer world? >> Yeah, so I'll take the question. So essentially what I am seeing is the world in the enterprise world is very fragmented. People doing silos kind of stuff. As you rightly said, developers really want to be liberated from all this bureaucracy, right? So they really need a service kind of world where they can go click on it, they get their compute kind of stuff. There's a pressure on the IT ops to give that experience, otherwise people will flee to public a lot. As simple as that, right? So to me, the way I see is the IT ops, the DB ops, the traditional DB ops inner ring, they are understanding the need that, hey well, we gotta be service-ified. We want to provide that kind of service-like interface to our teams who are consuming that kinda stuff. So this software, Nutanix as the enterprise cloud software, lets them create their own private cloud and then give those services to the developers kinda stuff. So it's a natural transition as a company for us. We got to start from the cloud operators, now we're exposing the cloud services from the cloud operators to the cloud consumers. Essentially the developers. >> Greg, up on stage you talked about cloud native, and your premise is that cloud native is a term for a methodology, not necessarily that it's born in the cloud. Maybe help explain that a little bit, and you know, we think Nutanix is mostly in data centers today, so, you know, why isn't this just saying, "No, no, no, we can be cloud native, too." >> Fair point, and I think we're not alone in that as well, in being an enterprise infrastructure company that was looking at enabling cloud native applications, our cloud native architecture within the private data center Say look, really it's a form of doing distributed computing, right, and that's the core to it, right? So you have a stateless, ephemeral infrastructure. You're not upgrading things, you know, you're blowing it away and rebuilding it. There's some core things like that, that will move across whether it be in the cloud or on prem. And of course you need tooling for that, right, 'cause that's not the methodology most enterprise developers or operators are really going through, right, so everything's pets, not much cattle. We're really trying to change that quite a bit, and that's both enabling technology but it's also the practices that people will deploy. And we're seeing is, it's not so much us trying to sell this it's more like hey, we're used to this in the cloud, why can't we do this on prem in our private data center where we have all of our data, and the other services that we need to interact with, like, that's where the demand's really coming from. So it's that mass of data they want to interact with with the type of architecture that they've gotten used to for rapid development and deployment. >> So one other thing, you mentioned pets versus cattle. One of the things I've been seeing from, you know, an IT ops perspective is you need a good ecosystem of management products around your pets or your cattle to be able to make it cattle, right? If you don't have the tooling, you're gonna do manual interaction, and it's going to become pets. So I'm wondering, you know, in that cloud native space, how are you helping the IT ops to actually make it a cattle experience, and you know, towards management or monitoring, or backup stuff like that? >> So, you know, a lot of that is surrounded around Kubernetes, right, as a center of mass. So it's not just us doing it, it's us pulling in a lot of the support and ecosystem that is being built by the community for that and leveraging that piece. And then we have other things we'll either add onto that as it integrates with our platform and some of the capabilities there, or things that we may do, just again, pure open source. Give you a couple examples of that, so I mentioned Epoch on stage, right, so it's sort of something that brings additional metrics to Prometheus. So in addition to CPU and memory storage consumption, you're actually getting latency and other more business metrics that you might be using to trigger things in Kubernetes, like auto-scaling. I don't necessarily always scale on CPU or memory, maybe it's a customer experience that's difficult to measure The other thing is because we have the storage layer underneath, you know, we look at doing things like, again it's early in Kubernetes, but snapshotting from within Kubernetes. Right, so if we have a CSI provider, why not from within Kubernetes let an application or a container trigger a snapshot. Underneath our storage layer will take that snap and then it becomes an object that's available from within Kubernetes. So there's a whole lot of things happening. >> I just want to add a couple of comments to that. This pets versus cattle is standardization, right, like we're talking about it. In typical, old legacy enterprises there are let's take the example of databases. Like, every application team has their own databases they are trying to pass, they're all trying to do management around it kind of stuff. When we do a couple of servers, like we looked at around 2,400 databases for a typical company, they have 400 different configurations of the software. And so like this is one of the biggest companies that we talking about kind of stuff. With that kind of stuff they cannot manage cloud, obviously. This is not no more a cattle kind of stuff. But how do you bring that kind of standardization, right? That is where the Era as a product is actually coming into this. We are trying to standardize, but when you try to standardize these database environments for on premise enterprise cloud, you have to do it at their terms. What I meant to try to say is when you try to go for public cloud, you have this catalog 11204 pull the node to PSE5, you can only create databases with whatever the software the public cloud guys are doing it. But on premise needs are slightly different. So that is where Nutanix, Era, and this products will come into. We allow to people to create the cloud, and then we allow them to create their own catalog of software that they can standardize. So that is what I call standardization at their customer terms, that's what we're trying. >> And let me add to that, though. It also brings in this convenience, 'cause not only is it coming up with standardize, but we've made it even more convenient, right, because now a developer can go provision their own database, they're gonna get a standard configuration for what that is, and so you made it easier for developers and you're getting something that is more cattle-like. >> Bala, I think you're in a good seat to be able to actually give us a little bit of independent commentary, you know. The movement of databases is one of the hottest topics in the industry. I haven't seen whether Andy Jassy was sparing back with Larry Ellison, you know, at re:Invent this week, but you know, we've been watching the growth of things like Postgres, and lot of these changes, you know, Era sits clearly in that space. So what do you seeing from customers, you know, the modernization of applications is, you know, what I call the long pole in the tent. It's the toughest thing for me to be able to do. I said we usually want to first, you know, you modernize your platform, Nutanix helps with that, public cloud helps with that, and then I can modernize my application. You know, database tends to be, it's the stickiest application that we have in the industry. So what are you seeing? >> Yeah, so there are two class of applications that we see. This space is completely green field We are starting off completely. People love cloud-like experience and cloud native databases that's where the public cloud can kind of try to help them. But if you see 70 to 80% of the money still is with all the traditional apps. You're trying to now cloudify them. The cloud native stack that we talk about, the cloud native database, is not going to the game. Like you really need to think about how do you kind of take these big, giant databases that are there with Oracles, and DBTools, that kind of stuff but give the cloud-like experience, right? So the actually very difficult game for any public cloud, that's why you don't see rack provisioning and a dot list is still not there, or even if JCP natively. Oracle does that but little bit difficult. Data gravity forces people to come to on premise, that's my humble take on this, right. But how do you build, how do you make this gray area I call it a brown field, and convert them into more of a consumer-centered kind of stuff? That's where Era actually tries to play. It has two roles that, if you have existing databases, we turn to kind of convert them into more of a cloud-like databases for you, or if you have a green field then we can get you directly onto the cloud native experience. Or if you're trying to migrate from technology to other technology, definitely we would like to help. These are the three things that we try to do through Era kinda of stuff, yeah. >> So looking forward, you know, we're starting out with databases, you know, making that simple, making that small so that there's less friction in that. So maybe a question for Greg, so what's the future for Nutanix in, you know, enabling other services, other cloud-like services on a Nutanix platform going forward? >> In addition to databases. >> Exactly. >> Yeah, so we're a big proponent of standard APIs, as I talked about, right, so we have that in storage for a long time, that makes things easy with databases. We have a standard client talking to standard database backends. As we see other core building blocks, those are the kind of things that we're gonna want to build and deliver as well. So S3 is a defacto standard for object storage, for instance, so people are following that. You'll get Pub/Sub with Kafka APIs, Druid. There's a whole bunch of things, especially from the Apache project, that have become sort of defacto standards, so really it's like, okay, well which building blocks are needed by developers to build these applications that they want, and how do we really work the the community to establish those as open standards. 'Cause we really want, you know, I talked about the portability quite a bit. So we don't want anyone locked into our stack or anyone else's stack, it's like hey, let's build with the best toolkits, let's use standard, open APIs, and then developers get what they need which is portability, or run the application where they want to run it. So that's our strategy of going forward. >> Into some-I-tab we have easy to equal end, which is AHV, we have EBS equal end, we have our called Acropolis Block Services. We have S3 equal end, which is called Buckets, we have database RDS equal end, we have Era, and now we are going with content as which we call Carbon. So we are trying to kind of look at those critical services for anyone, especially for developers, to say that man, it's all ecosystem, it's not like one piece, single piece It's not this compute, it's not this storage, but it is an ecosystem of services that we need to kind of predict. >> Want to just come back to what we were talking beginning, the relationship with developers. How much of what Nutanix does is really kind of the IT ops that then enables developers, and how much direct developer engagement is it? Like, you know, is there development activity here at the conference going on that we should know about? I know that Nutanix goes to a lot of the developer shows. But maybe if you could give us some commentary on that. >> Yeah, I can start that, it's a path, right? So currently we certainly have the bulk of our interactions are gonna be on the IT operations side, and so it's only through them, because their customers are the developers that we really interact primarily today. But you should see that changing quite a bit, and I think that you'll that with the tools that we're providing directly to developers to interact with you know, through the APIs like they have Era. So for instance, if IT has deployed Era internally, then if I want a database I can go straight to those APIs or command line to grab those things. And you'll see that continuously be a trend as we let developers interact directly with our products. >> Just to give you an example, right, within the company, within Nutanix, we are drinking our own champaign, right. So we are operating a private cloud and we are exposing our APIs to all our developers. Today, if someone wants a database in Nutanix, they go to a control plane and say I want a database. Right, that's the API. How the infrastructure is getting, it's a means to an end for them, right. That's where we are going with our customers, too, hey, here is how you build your private cloud, here is how you expose all your service end points for different services, and your developers just need to enjoy them. And then there's a building aspect of it, that's the nuance that private clouds need to deal with. How do they charge the developers, how do they charge meter, that kind of stuff that people will talk about today. >> You know, I definitely heard when I talked to all the product teams, especially everything in Zai cloud, you know, extensibility with APIs is built into everything you're doing. So we're going to have to leave it there. Greg, we're gonna be catching up with you and the Nutanix team in two weeks at the Cube-Con show in Seattle. So thanks so much for joining us. Bala, pleasure, thanks for giving us all the update. And thank you, we're gonna be back with more coverage here. From Nutanix .Next 2018 in London, I'm Stu Miniman and Joep Piscaer is my cohost. Going to be do a Dutch session in a second, so be sure to stay with that. First foreign language interview on theCUBE, and thank you for watching. (electronic music)

>> Livefrom London, England, it's theCUBE, covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to London, England. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Nutanix .Next 2018 Europe. My name's Stu Miniman. My cohost for these two days of coverage has been Joep Piscaer. And happy to welcome to the program, two first (mumbles). We're gonna talk about culture and people. To my right is Rukmini Sivaraman, who is the vice president of business operations and chief of staff to the CEO. And sitting next to her is Prabha Krishna, who is the senior vice president of people and places, both of them with Nutanix. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> All right so, we've been covering Nutanix for a long time. I've been to every one of the shows. I start out, I guess... Dheeraj talked for a long time about the three Hs. It was humble, hungry, and honest, if I got those right. And more recently, it was with heart. Actually sitting not too far behind us, there's a big booth for heart. So, the culture of the company is something that is tied with the founders. We've watched that growth. I've watched the company go from about 35 people to over 3500 people. So, having those core principles is something that we look at in companies. Why don't we start? If you could both just give quick introduction, what brought you to Nutanix, and what your role is there. >> Sure, I've been at Nutanix a little over 18 months and I started out as an engineer, then went to finance and investment banking of all things, was at Goldman for almost a decade. And Nutanix is a client of Goldman's back form the IPO, and I had heard great things about the company, of course, but wasn't intending to leave Goldman Sachs. But when I got introduced to Dheeraj, there was so much that was compelling about the company, the disruption, the category-defining, category-creating kind of position that the company had. And more importantly, I think, where we were going, which was just phenomenal. it was ambitious, it was bold. And I think for me, it's always been about the people. We spend a lot of time at work and it's really important to feel that connection to the people. And that was really important 'cause I had to pick up and move from New York City to the Bay Area to make this move. And we can talk more about this, but to me the people were, like I said, ambitious, but they were also grounded. And I see it and after being at Nutanix now, it's phenomenal how truly humble the people are and that's always struck me as a great combination. You want ambition and challenging problems to solve, but you also want humility and people that you can relate to. So that's really what got me to Nutanix. >> Please. >> Yeah so, I've actually been following Nutanix for quite a while. It's a company that addresses a space that's very underserved and has created a suite of products that's nothing short of amazing for our customers, entirely focused on our customer base. But for me, the most interesting thing was, it's a company that is as right-brained as it is left-brained. I've actually spent 19 years of my career in engineering and made a career switch into the people side. And it's one of the few companies where that fit is almost perfect. And once I met our founder and our CEO, Dheeraj, this became even more obvious. So. I'm actually very happy to be here. I've been here for about four months now, and it's already very clearly the beginning of a very, very exciting journey. >> Yeah, interesting, both of you kind of making those shifts. Talk a little bit about that, talk about... People from outside of Silicon Valley, always, it's like, "Oh, there's the one where they have the playground "and free meals and free drinks." And it's like, "Yeah, that's because you do the analysis "and if they'll work 18 hours a day, "if we can keep them there, "maybe even put a cot in the office, that's good." I haven't seen cots in the office when I go to Nutanix, but hey are really nice offices. And even on the east coast, we're tartin' to change and see some of those things there. Maybe give us a little bit of insight as to that culture. And Nutanix is much more than just Silicon Valley based now. >> That's right. So we are truly a global organization. And we decided very early on that we wanted to be a global organization, but we're also thinking local. All right, so we do have multiple offices within the US, in Durham and Seattle and other places, but we're also truly global. Our Bangalore office, in India we have a big presence. And so for us what that means is there's people from different perspectives and background. But ultimately, it's our sort of, like you said, the four values, but also our culture principles that we've qualified fairly recently that bind us. And that really help us move forward in the same direction and pointing that same direction, and growing the same way. So that has been a phenomenal to see and it's one that I think we've very deliberately qualified more recently. It's sort of the how, how do we behave that embodies those four values that you talked about. >> So Prabha, so you're a new hire, right? >> Yes. >> You haven't been with Nutanix as much. So while we're talking on the subject, what's your personal experience coming into Nutanix? Is it true what you're talking about? How does it work in real life, in practice? >> No, absolutely. All companies state a culture. All companies, I think, in this day and age at least and definitely in Silicon Valley, are very clear about having a specific culture. But the key, as far as I'm concerned, and the strength of a company is how they live and breathe their culture every single day, in every decision, and every action, right. In every difficult balance that they need to meet, that's where the culture really shows up. And at Nutanix, it is... How shall I put it? It's really the core of every single thing we do. It's the core of how we interact. It's the core of how we grow. It's the core of how we recruit, how we define our organizations. And frankly, I have to say, I have been in a lot of organizations and a lot of organizations over time, actually, and particularly as they reach our size... We're a bit at sort of an inflection point, if you will, in terms of size. Our growth has definitely been very, very quick and continues to accelerate. Having that culture being something that we really live is the most important thing. And it is what will allow us to continue to innovate and continue to succeed all over the globe as Rukmini just explained. For me, it's quite extraordinary to see it in action. >> Yeah, that's really interesting because, one, our industry has some challenges hiring. It's finding the right skillset there. If you match that with a culture, what challenge are there? What are you looking for? What is the fit from the outside to match what you're looking for? >> Yeah, I'm happy to address a little bit. So recruiting for us is everything. We want to bring in the best. We wanna bring in the brightest and we wanna bring in folks who really value our culture and our values, who really understand them. And again, are willing to live them every single day. So we do look for great talent all over the planet because great talent exists all over the planet. This is absolutely fundamental to our growth. We are an infrastructure company and we offer, actually, very interesting work for anyone who is interested in the engineering side, who is interested in the sales side, who's interested in market. And for me, the most interesting part in the roles we have, and frankly the most unusual piece if you will, is we offer opportunities to build things from scratch. So, the creative side, the creative mind is really what we encourage. And it shows up in every single aspect of the way we're structured. So, the diversity of thought, the diversity of background, the diversity of... Whether it's gender or location, philosophies, and all of that, is really what we want to bring in and what will allow us to continue to create these products that are quite unique. >> If I may add to that, we talk internally a lot about the founder's mentality. It's a concept, a framework that was developed by Bain & Company and the gist of it is as follows: When you think about great disruptive startups, they're on this rocket ship, accelerating growth. And then they get to a certain size, so they become a little bigger. And they get enjoy the benefits of scale, economies of scale, and that's a good thing. But the best companies take that and then they enjoy those benefits, but they then also don't lose what got them there in the first place, which is the innovation, the ability to disrupt and look around corners, and all of that. So we want the best of both worlds. And in this framework, it's called a scaled insurgent. So you're scaled, but you're still an insurgency. And that is important to us. Folks that can sort of balance the two, really make sure that we are benefiting from one, but also not losing sight of the other. And it's a paradox in many ways and we believe in embracing those paradoxes. And folks who can sort of balance those two would be really a great fit. >> And so, if you're growing that fast, I can imagine that keeping the balance between culture and engineering, and you're growing, that's difficult. How does Nutanix handle that paradox? >> I think it goes back to what Prabha was saying. And for us, culture and the way we behave is like oxygen. So it almost fuels the fire as opposed to the other way around or having to do two things at once. And that's how we've thought about it. And the principles, when we thought about them and conceived them, it was the same idea, which is how can this just be the way we conduct ourselves we treat our customers, we treat each other, we treat our partners? How can it just become the way we do business? And so far, that's worked well for us. >> So one of my favorite culture principles, actually, is comfortable being uncomfortable. And there's a real reason that because given our scale, given the way we wanna grow, and given the fact that we want to preserve that innovative seed at every step, for us, every single day is about balancing opposing forces. Do we invest in the short term? Do we invest in the long term? Do we manage locally? Do we manage more globally? Do we centralize things, do we not? Do we distribute, right? Every single day is about balancing those kinds of things and it's that balance that encourages the creativity in every single one of us. So, the very fact that we've sort of embodied that in a culture principle, really is a very strong indication of what we look for and what we wanna be. >> Right, with the time that we have left, I wondering if you could talk about both at the show and beyond the show, what things Nutanix is doing. Think tech for good, think about the charitable things. Some of speakers I've seen at these shows... Mick Ebeling is one that stood out from a previous show. On talking about tech for good, Dr. Jane Goodall, who I know spoke at a women's lunch event and in the keynote here today, is just so inspiring. As someone that loves science and animals, it was very powerful. You've got the .heart initiatives here. Maybe help for those that don't know here and what else you're doing around the globe and around the year. >> Did you wanna go first? >> Yeah, so giving back is very important for us. It's very fundamental. Gratitude, understanding where we all came from, where we are, and where we wanna go, and not losing ourselves, that's really the key of, I think, any type of success, frankly. So we have an organization around that. It's a very active organization, we all participate. And the company is very much involved in as many different types of charities as possible. It also feeds into the kinds of sourcing that we do when every bring people in. We look for folks who care. We care very much about our people. The amount of attention and the amount of just knowledge and thought that goes into structuring our organization is very much reflective of that sense of giving back and gratitude as well. Our employees are everything and the folks around us who are in need are also everything. It sort of goes together, if you will. So basically to us, it's a hugely, hugely important effort and we'll continue investing in those kinds of things as we go forward. >> I think one thing I would add is as you saw at the end of the closing keynote, I think we announced or shared that thanks to everyone here, really all the folks here, our customers, partners, all of our participants, we were able to collect over 10,000 pounds for .heart and that is phenomenal. We're forever grateful to our community to be able to do things like that. We also partner with organizations like Girls in Tech, which is doing great work on making sure that we are bringing all kinds of talent, as Prabha said, to the table. We believe there's great people everywhere. And so, how do we harness the power of all of those initiatives? >> All right, those are some great examples. And Prabha, to your point, I think that that individual touch to your employees, that also translates to the customer side. Something I hear from Nutanix customers is despite the fact how large you've grown and how many customers you have, they feel that they get that individual attention. So thank you so much for sharing all of the updates. Wish you both the best of luck in your continued journey. And we wanna thank our community, of course, for tuning in to our coverage. It is truly our pleasure to help document what's happening out in the industry, hopefully be a surrogate for you, to ask the questions that you wanna hear and help you along your journeys. My name's Stu Miniman. My first European cohost who also did a segment in Dutch, Joep Piscaer, Can you goodbye in Dutch for us, Joep? >> (Dutch). >> All right, I'll have to learn that one some time because, unfortunately, my english and speaking numbers in a couple of different languages is where I'm a little bit limited. But once again, thanks for watching. Turn to thecube.net to catch all of the replays from this show as well as all the shows that we will be at. Including, next year, Nutanix will be at Anaheim and the spring and Copenhagen in the fall. And our team look forward to bringing you coverage from both of those. So once again, thank you for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (slick electronic music) >> Hi, I'm John Wallis. I've been with theCUBE for a couple years serving as a host here on our broadcast, our flagship broadcast on SiliconANGLE TV. I like to think about the hows and the whys, and the whats of technology. How's it work? Why does it matter? What is it doing for end users? When I think about theCUBE does and what it means, to me, it's an ...

(groovy music) >> Live from London, England. It's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to London, England. You're watching two days of wall-to-wall coverage from Nutanix .NEXT 2018 Europe. I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost is Joep Piscaer and happy to welcome to the program Tim Isaacs, who's the general manager of data services, which really is the core products of Nutanix underneath the Hypervisor, if I understand correct. >> That's right. >> With Nutanix. Tim, thanks so much for joining us. >> Absolutely, thank you for having me. Very nice to be here. >> Alright, so, Tim. This is my 7th .NEXT and for a lot of 'em, it's like, okay, where are we with that HCI marketplace? A couple years ago, Nutanix expanded the marketing to enterprise cloud and now has, if I've got right, from two years it was about two products and today it's more like 14 products. >> Right. >> Some organically, some through M&A. As it was put out, there was Core, which is AOS, and to the HCI, AHV, Prism Management, and your stuff is what all of these customers that are attending here are using. I'd love to get a number sometime, as to how many Nutanix customers aren't running that in the future. We were hearing how many are doing more than that. But give us the state of your business. >> Sure. >> At the, no pun intended, core of what Nutanix does. >> Absolutely. Yeah, so I think you are referring to our most recent segmentation. You're talking about Core, then Core is basically AOS, which is synonymous with HCI, and then obviously that includes AHV built in and then Prism for management and then Essentials is a, several other things relating to operations management, automation, file storage, so on and so forth. So, I'll talk about Core and I'll talk about maybe a few things in the Essentials bucket. So, Core, obviously, is all of our customers today, right? It's a layered kick, clearly, so people start with Core, then they move up the stack, if you will, right? Into Essentials and then many into Enterprise as well. And Core, at its base, is softly defined storage technologies, right? Powering HCI. So what we realize quite early on is, look, you know, HCI is all about virtualization. Virtualized workload. So, you got virtual machines, they can be desktops, they can be servers, they can be databases. But then there's also the notion of unstructured data, right? So, what about all this file storage that I have? What about all this object storage that I have? And what we realized was, well, we have a platform, we have the infrastructure, softly defined storage, and it was simply a matter of expanding that. And if you think about files, it's just another use case on this infrastructure. So, we started on our files journey about two years ago and I think you might have seen some announcements, today as well as about six months ago, where we're getting ready to release our object storage solution. So, now, if I take stock of the portfolio. >> Buckets, I believe it's called. >> Buckets, it's called Buckets, exactly. What do you think of the name? >> I don't hate it. >> Okay, okay. (laughing) >> As an analyst, that's probably the most you're gonna get out of me. >> Got you, got you. Yeah, so if I take stock of the portfolios today, you got Core, right, which is hyperconvergence, virtual machines, multiple workloads. And then you got unstructured data. Real files as well as, soon it will be objects. And then we also provide just generic block storage for anybody who wants to, "Hey, I got a database, it's running on a bare metal server, "can you give me block storage? "I wanna consume it and I'm gonna run Oracle on it "in a RAC setting." Yeah, sure, go for it, right? So, even though most of our customers are indeed hyperconverged, there are some customers who use us as storage only, and that's okay. If that works for them, great. But the power of the whole thing is, now you can consolidate all of your workloads on a single platform. >> Yeah, one of the things we talked about with Dheeraj yesterday is, when Nutanix launched, there were certain waves that it kinda hit. It seemed to be the right time for things, so, you know, software defined before we called it software defined. What was there, flashes of technology, was really coming from a little niche project to broad adoption. A lot has changed in the about nine years since the solution went on and you had a major file system rewrite in 5.10. I've heard some people think of it almost as AOS 2.0. >> Right. >> To get ready for some of the modern things happening from a technology standpoint as well as the modern applications that will sit on top of it. >> Right. >> Dheeraj said it's like the plane flying at 35,000 feet, running at full speed, and we're gonna change the engine out. Gives a little bit of insight as to what goes into that, to what that took and what that prepares Nutanix and your customers for. >> Absolutely. So, there comes a time in every technologies lifespan where you have to re-architect significantly. And that's because things are changing. Applications are changing, the world is changing. There are a bunch of emerging technologies that come about, and we are sort of in an interesting time, where things like memory glass storage, NVMe, RDMA, all of these things are starting to get mainstream, and for good reason, right? They actually deliver a lot of value. So the file system that have developed nine years ago, yes, you can make incremental changes, but there comes a time where you have to say, "Look, I gotta make these big changes. "I have to rethink my data, metadata structure." And that's what you're seeing. And obviously, this will be in phases. Phase one was more about optimizing metadata. Phase two will be about rewriting the file system in a major way. What we're calling block store, to basically take advantage of things like memory glass storage. And then, result is two things. One is we'll be able to take better advantage of all of these new technologies. And by doing so, now you are delivering a very different kind of a, if you will, not just an experience, but value to your customers. So, somebody could be running a database today and there's certain expectations of performance and reliability and latency. In this new world, AOS 2.0, those expectations will be entirely different, right? >> So, looking at the adoption of it, so, AOS 2.0, basically, everyone's gonna run it at some point. You know, everybody is running it already, upgrading it is gonna be, in Nutanix style, pretty easy. But I'm wondering, the other storage products, you don't see adoption there. How many people are using it, what are they using it for? >> Sure, sure. And by the other storage products, you're referring to file storage and things like that, right? >> Yes. >> So, for all of them, files is the most mature. We released SSG about two years ago and we have close to 1,000 customers using files today. So not just purchased, but using. So 1,000 users as customers, so you know, pretty decent. Good adoption. And there's also been a bit of a journey here. You know, we started with files being a SMB protocol product. So, it had a bias towards Windows environments, user data. About a year ago, we released NFS support. So now, the game changes a little bit. You're talking machine data, machine generated data, right? So it's very different. And that's also forced us to rethink how we go about scalability, how we go about automation. You know, if there's a hot spot, the system should take care of itself. Does it go off and scale up? Does it go off and scale out? Does this happen automatically? So, a lot of those things started to get weaved into the fold of the product. So, that's files. I would say, the most mature outside of HCI. Objects is new. Just ready to get it ready to go GA. We've done a bunch of early access with a few customers, things are looking good, alright? So, looking forward to what we have there. Block storage, we also offer generic iSCSI-based block storage. That's also been in market for a while, and this has been use cases where somebody wants to run a bare metal database outside. Reasons of licensing or what have you. Maybe it's legacy databases. And I just want storage from the Nutanix cluster. So, what we said is, "You know what we'll do? "We'll carve off a portion of the Nutanix cluster, "logically speaking, serve it out as volumes, right? "Generic volumes, and you can use it for your databases." Performance and everything is very similar to what you would get if you were hyperconverged. So, you're not giving up anything by doing so, other than the fact that, obviously, you're not in a true hyperconverged form factor. >> Alright, since we're talking about storage, I wonder if you could drill a little deeper on some of the new stuff. So, in 5.10, you're ready for memory glass storage, things like NVMe. Where are we today? What is further down the road map? You know, the storage industry, NVMe, and NVMe over Fabrics is a pretty hot discussion. Everybody's getting ready for it. Is there anything that Nutanix is doing unique there? And give us what the customer expectations should be. >> Sure, sure, it makes sense. So, I think, at the more fundamental level, I think we all agree that, if you're in a hyperconverged form factor, because you have storage right with compute, that gives you an inherent advantage to begin with, versus three-tier storage that goes over the network. So, what we're trying to do is, hey, let's continue to milk that, so to speak. And you know, in 5.10, we released, I would say, one portion of what we call AOS 2.0. And here, what we did was we optimized heavily for metadata. So, our metadata versus data model changes with AOS 2.0. And then what we'll do, we'll follow this up with major changes to the data model itself. So, for example, now, when you're dealing with memory glass storage, you gotta be able to address it slightly differently. You have to be using low-level APIs. Things like SPDK to circumvent the kernel, for example, and go directly into storage. So, all those things are in the works, and the net result is going to be, well, I see higher performance, I see more consistent performance, I see lower latencies, right? And obviously more through-put as well. Now, you talked about NVMe over Fabrics. Now, the idea there is, look, you got the NVMe protocol Fabrics now, so what sort of a fabric are you building? Because we deal, essentially, with ethernet, ours will be an ethernet fabric, right? So, now we'll start to leverage RDMA more. We already do so in our systems today, but I would like to see end-to-end RDMA, where you start at the application, and then right through the pipeline, the data path, it's RDMA all the way down to storage. And even for your replicas, it's RDMA. And now you're talking a very different kind of latency, right? You're not talking, forget about a millisecond. We're talking about less than a hundred microseconds of latency end to end. >> So, that kind of sounds like the perfect use case for IoT, you know, heavy data processing. What are some of the efforts you're undertaking to optimize for Zi IoT? >> Right, so, IoT. You know, there's obviously two pieces to IoT, right? There's the computing I do on the Edge and then the computing I do after the fact, somewhere else, machine-building models that I can feed back to the Edge, right? So, this new technology would apply in both places. Now, when you're on the Edge itself, there's certain situations where your real-time processing needs to be real-time. It better be quick, right? So, the faster my storage, the faster my decision-making. And then, so let's say you're able to make decisions faster, inferencing decisions faster in real time. Now you go to the cloud, shall we say, where you're doing the long-time processing, and there, too, it's a matter of, okay, I'm doing all this machine learning. I have a bunch of, say, AI OML packages running here. There, too, there's an angle of time. If I do this in two weeks and feed it back versus two days, there's a big difference in business value that's being delivered, right? So, I think the applicability of all of these changes is across any use case. >> Alright, Tim, wanna give you the final word. You know, you've got the Core products there, but what are you hoping that customers walk away from as they leave the show this week? >> So, I mean, I would say, dear customers, we are ready for all use cases, all workloads. We are getting better and better. You will see us be on the bleeding edge when it comes to Core technologies. I think we are a first mover. All the things we talked about, we have been investing in. This is not the first time. It's released for the first time, but it's been around, we've been developing it for multiple years. So, you can think of Nutanix as someone who's on the forefront of all of these new technologies and, at the end of the day, it's all about your applications being ready for all of those applications, traditional as well as new, and in your choice of form factor. You wanna go hyperconverged? Great, you wanna go as storage only? It's up to you. >> Alright, well, Tim, really appreciate the updates. Congrats on all the progress and look forward to watching where things go in the future. >> Awesome, thank you guys. >> Alright, be sure to stay with us, got a couple more interviews left here from Nutanix. .NEXT 2018 in London, England. Thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (electronic music) (upbeat music)

>> Live, from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018! Brought to you buy Nutanix. >> Good morning from London, England. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Joep Piscaer, and you're watching theCUBE's two day coverage of Nutanix .NEXT 2018 here at the ExCel Center. Welcome to our program. Joep and I are gonna spend a couple minutes giving our thoughts on Nutanix, what's happened in ecosystems, what we're hearing from the customers. So Joep, 3,500 people here, I think back two years ago when they held the first show in Europe in Vienna, you and I talked there, it was a much smaller show. Nutanix is growing some strong momentum here. Generally as you say at these kind of shows, you usually have the true believers, but it is nice to see that a company, Nutanix, now nine years old, you know their customers seem pretty passionate. That they love what it does for them, different careers. One of the executives, it was Sunil up on stage yesterday, said, "Hey, you might not get fired for buying "an IBM or VMware, but you get promoted for buying Nutanix." So what's your impressions, tell me what you're hearing from your peers and compatriots at the event. >> So, what I'm seeing around me here is the buzz is definitely much bigger than a couple of years ago. The show's bigger, it seems to attract more customers from all over, small companies, big companies, so seeing that buzz, compared to a couple of years ago kind of proves that Nutanix has a place in the industry and that their products are gaining traction with customers. And looking at the keynotes from yesterday and today, I see a lot of announcements, a see a lot of work not just in the products customers are using now, but also kind of in a forward looking, we wanna go here fashion. And that's exciting to me, because Nutanix is growing beyond just a core infrastructure company. They are building a portfolio, they're building a platform. And I think, from what I've been hearing from customers, it does have traction. Customers like the direction Nutanix is going, but I can't help but wonder how many customers are already using these services or planning to use these in the near future. >> Yeah, and one of things I look at, and I think I've seen good progress here, this isn't just taking the US show and shipping it over to Europe. Nutanix has many years of doing road shows, it's the .NEXT on the road, things like that. In the keynotes, we're seeing European, not in just European customers, but that the demo this morning was senior SE, Nutanix woman from Spain and you see culture when I walk around the show floor, I know a lot of the vendors here and it is their European presence and hear good proof points of what they're doing. I mean, you're from here in Europe. What do you hear and see? >> Yes, I agree, this is not just a carbon copy of the US show, it has its own identity, it attracts its own customers, its own partners. Walking around the show floor, I do see a lot of customers that I recognize. I do see a lot of partners from the Netherlands or from Europe that I recognize, that I work with. So seeing all that attention from the crowd, that helps, and seeing Nutanix as a company, not just US based, but focusing on Europe as well. >> Yeah, wanna get your opinion. How's Nutanix doing on painting their vision? I think back to early days, Dheeraj and the team have a clear direction as to where they want to take things and I think they do a good job of focusing on the customer and laying out a vision without getting too far over their skis. Today, I'd look at it, most customers today, they're really using, I'm using HCI probably for more than just VDI and starting to spread out, but when you start talking about from the core to the essentials, to the enterprise, some of that is mostly customers aren't ready, but they need to be hearing a lot of these things. What's your take, what's some of your takeaways so far? >> So I think you've said it exactly right. So, even though customers are only using core products, mainly, it does help that Nutanix is laying down this vision of next steps for customers because even though you could say infrastructure's a commodity and the cloud is overruling on-prem installations, it's still customers are struggling to go from their current, on-prem, three tier virtualization layer up to an application focus in the cloud. And Nutanix telling that story, Nutanix telling, okay, this should be the next step, after that, you can do this. That helps to guide customers to not only where Nutanix wants the customer to go, obviously, but also from that customer centric perspective, helping customers navigating that difficult swamp of the next step of cloud, of applications, and moving from an infrastructure focus to that application focus. >> Yeah, look, there's a mental map I use for when I look at this. I kind of say that the world of the future is definitely, I prefer the term multi-cloud, but that definitely includes my own data centers or service provider data centers where I manage more of it. Let's call that the private piece of the hybrid and public cloud, and then of course, there's a lot of SAS in there. And when I put a company in there and say, okay, did they lean a little bit too far? Of course, Amazon, very heavily towards the public cloud, but we saw an announcement, AWS Outpost, where they're saying, hey, they're going deeper with VMware and also with their own stack to be able to go the private. Take a company like Dell who leans very heavily towards private, they have VMware and Pivotal to help get them a little bit more to public. VMware going deeper into public. Nutanix definitely leans a little bit towards private, but they're doing enough in the public cloud, they're making partnerships. I actually like the messaging I heard on Cloud Native this morning, saying that look, this is just like cloud is mostly an operational model and sure there's a lot of great innovation in the public cloud, but Cloud Native doesn't mean I built it in the cloud, it milked it. It's microservices and containerization and all those things, even serverless. We can debate whether that can only be in the public cloud. So, the hybrid message, I'd like to see a little bit more clarity from Nutanix as to where that has, and definitely feedback I've gotten from customers, but for the most part, I think they're doing a solid job. >> I agree, so, I think it's a matter of perspective, right? Where are your roots, where do you come from? So for VMware, for Nutanix, it makes the most sense to go from on-prem into cloud, into SAS, whereas Amazon was born in the cloud. They attract developers, they attract application builders, website builders, and so they have the different perspective, right? So they are now realizing, okay, on-prem has a place too. And so the difference is it's just a matter of perspective and what type of customers are you serving? So VMware and Nutanix are serving the enterprise customer that has big legacy roots in the data center, and they're helping those customers move towards the public cloud. But the other way around is just as valid, because there are so many companies that built an e-com solution on the public cloud and are moving back to on-prem for cost reasons, for security reasons, whichever reason is there for a customer. But both perspective make total sense to me. And if you compare Outpost to the work Nutanix is now doing with Carbon, technologically it isn't all that different, but I think it's a matter of perspective which customers are we helping in which way. >> Yeah, you've actually, I'll put a fine point on this. When I looked back to the early days of Nutanix, what their mission was is they took hyperscale, what the really big guys were doing, and they were going to bring that to the enterprise. They've done a great job of packaging that. Early days, we talked about the hyperscale companies really can put in a lot of high value resources to build what they need. The enterprise doesn't have a big team of Ph.D.'s to throw at things, they don't have the amount of resources, so they will spend money to buy what they have. So that's what Nutanix has done, they've got great things to show for it, public company, over seven billion dollars of market cap, so they can grow that. They've met the customs where they are and definitely are a trusted partner to help bring them towards what Nutanix calls the enterprise cloud, what most of us call that multi-cloud or hybrid cloud world. Alright, Joep, thank you so much for helping us dig in with some of the analysis. Be sure to stay with us for a full day, second day, of coverage. As always, turn to theCUBE.net for all the interviews. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE. (techno music) (relaxing music)

>> Live for London, England, it's theCUBE, covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to the theCUBE here in London, England for Nutanix .NEXT 2018. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost, Joep Piscaer. Happy to welcome you to the program, first time guest. Simon Townsend was the chief marketing officer of EMEA for IGEL. Thanks so much for joining us. No, thanks very much for having me. All right, so I see your team has a booth here and it's the end-user computing space, the EUC, as we look at it... We look at... The VDI marketplace is one that's been around for quite a while, but EUC has been heating up quite a bit. Maybe help set the stage for us as to what you're seeing in the marketplace, what's so important now. >> Yeah, I mean, the EUC market's served me very well across my career. I've been in it for probably near on 20 years and for the majority of that, I've seen Citrix dominate that market. When we talk about EUC, we typically are talking about desktop virtualization or terminal services, as it has been for many years. EUC, to me, interestingly enough, probably extends out to these types of devices that you've got in front of you as well now, right? We shouldn't think EUC is just desktop virtualization or desktop as a service. It's how we deliver the workspace, how we deliver applications and data to our users. But yeah, in the last couple of years, we've really started to see a few new, big players come into the market. And I think as we look forward now to 2019, we're now starting to see even more technology and new vendors come into this space as well. >> I actually had a friend of the program, Christian Riley, who is actually now with Citrix, had him on the program two years ago at the Nutanix European show in Vienna. He actually had educated me early on, back when he was at Bechtel, and he said, "We did a disservice to the market calling it "desktop virtualization." Because it's really not about the desktop. It's about the applications and how I get them. And therefore, if I can make that experience on a tablet or on a phone, get it to the mobile workforce, as it were, we're breaking down it into pieces and just enabling the workforce. And therefore, that end-user computing was a better nomenclature. And therefore, architecture's changed greatly from what we called VDI back in the day. >> You're exactly right. And I think as we move forward, at the moment, end user computing... A lot of organizations who historically have had separate VDI teams and separate Windows desktop teams, those two parts of the organization within IT, have actually come together now. And now we have Windows engineering or end user compute teams. But what's interesting is not just the new technology and, perhaps, new organizations, vendors that are coming into the market, but also what's going on on the endpoint at the moment with regard to to Windows. Right? Microsoft is moving very much to this Windows as a service. Lots of organizations are still considering how they're gonna get to Windows 10, but more importantly, how they're gonna deal with Windows 10 once they get there. And IT, to be frank, has been used to building a machine, putting an operating system on it, putting applications on it, giving it to a user, and saying, "Hey, come back in four years time "when it breaks." And Microsoft is changing that. They want to deliver updates significantly quicker as I'm sure everybody's that's watching knows. And I think, actually, that alone coupled with security, which tends to be a key priority for the CIO at the moment as well, that is actually driving some of this change and this fact that this market is heating up again. Because people are saying, "Well, how can I challenge how I deliver applications again? "How can I overcome some of the challenges that Windows 10 "and desktop endpoint management presents me? "And how can I deal with it differently?" >> Yeah, gosh, I think back to... I used to read Bryden Madden when I wanted to learn about VDI He said, "All I need is Microsoft to flip the switch." Because Microsoft Licensing was one of the major things holding us back >> Yes, it was. >> I give Microsoft great kudos as to the push that they've done to sass-ify the world. They not only gave the green light, but they're pushing customers to move to Office 365. And therefore, it's moving to a sass world And so, it sounds like that same floodgate is helping in the EUC space. >> 100%. I mean, if you roll the clock back to Ignite, they announced their Windows Virtual Desktop service that sits on Azure, and about how organizations can (mumbles) for a much lower price point. And then only last week, they did the acquisition of FSLogix, who again, enhance how things like Office 365 are being delivered on those types of non persistent platforms. So Microsoft are putting some investment and some time into desktop as a service or what we would know as VDI, which to be fair, in my opinion, is probably the first time we've seen that in the 20 years I've been working in the EUC space. For many, many years, Microsoft sort of sat back and said, "Well, we've got this terminal services technology, "but somebody else, and A and other vendors "can build that market and sell that product." And now, obviously, Microsoft (mumbles) service. So, things are gonna get interesting. Are they suddenly gonna take over the world? Probably not. People are still gonna wanna deploy things on-prem. People are still gonna want to utilize technologies like Nutanix to deliver a scalable performant desktop at a known price point. It's gonna be a hybrid, but I think it definitely validates the market, and it makes sure that when we're talking about end user compute, VDI or desktop as a service, and virtualized (mumbles) is a serious and key consideration. Yeah. >> But it does move the goal post from it being a problem of hardware, a problem of the operating system, towards solving problems around the applications so that you deliver, solving problems around security or latency. So how does that changing market affect IGEL? >> How does it affect us as (mumbles) organization? IGEL have been around for over 20 years producing... Let's not beat around the bush, it's thin client technology. But as you scratch the surface and you look into what this organization is actually built on, it's actually a operating system organization. The fact that we've got some hardware, the fact that it's German engineered hardware and that we ship hundreds of thousands of these units every year, that's great. And those thin clients, if you like, are provided a way in which organizations can access those virtual desktops, whether that be Citrix, VMware or whatever else the market might offer. But the strength of what we're now doing is in this operating system. And whether that's an operating system that we are delivering via SCCM or an endpoint management tool or whether it's on a USB key, it's the operating system. And the simplicity and the security about Linux space operating system that is changing how people think about the endpoint. And so when I couple what's going on in the virtualization, desktop as a service space, and then also the challenges that people are facing with security and endpoint management, all of a sudden, we have a very unique proposition. It's slightly disruptive because, ultimately, you're saying, "Well, does Windows belong on the endpoint anymore?" Right? There's a strong argument to say that, Microsoft now validating it, saying that Windows probably deserves to belong in the data canter where it's a lot easier to manage, it's a lot easier to patch and deploy applications to, and what you actually need is something that is simple and secure on the endpoint that you're not wasting weeks' worth of time on to try and keep it up to date or to patch it. And it's that operating system that IGEL is providing our customers with that extends the life of the endpoint, but also offers significantly lower operational costs. >> All right, so Simon, Nutanix did a good job of simplifying a good chunk of the stack here. Update us on the relationship, where you see the joint customers, where that's leading in the marketplace. >> Yeah, I've really enjoyed yesterday and today, by the way, at this event. And one of the key reasons for that is not just the joint customers that I get to talk to, but more importantly, the joint partners that we get to talk to. I think there's three words I would use, simple, scalable, and performant. And I think when you're delivering a desktop or applications and data services (mumbles) a user, you want something that's easy and simple to do. You want something that is easily scalable, both up and down. But also something that is performant. And I think when you combine... Particularly historic, when you look at combining Nutanix, Citrix, and IGEl, all of a sudden, you've got all the right ingredients there to provide a very simple, secure and performant environment. As I said, a lot of the people that are here today, joint customers that are using our technologies, we're worry about how we can simplify and secure the EDGE. They're worrying about... Nutanix is really looking at how we simplify and scale the data center and how those desktops are delivered. We've got a whole host of joint activity in the market that goes on, lots of joint customer case studies. But more importantly, I think... And kudos to a lot of the partners that are here. It's the partners that tend to pull a lot of these things together. It's very easy for IGEL and Citrix and Nutanix to say, "Let's work together, do some joint marketing, "et cetera, and go to market." But it's the partners, the valuated reseller, the systems integrators, they're the brains that are pulling these together. And actually, they're removing the complexity of what the products are and the technologies underneath, and providing a solution to their customers. >> All right, Simon Townsend, really appreciate the updates on IGEL, for Joep Piscaer. I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more coverage here from Nutanix 2018 in London. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (slick electronic music)

(futuristic electronic music) >> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .Next Conference Europe 2018. Brought to you buy Nutanix. >> Welcome back to Nutanix .Next 2018 in beautiful London, England. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host Joep Piscaer, and happy to welcome back to the program, third time guest, I believe, Chris Hallenbeck, who's the senior vice president of database and data management with SAP. Fresh off the keynote stage this morning. Were you were with CEO Dheeraj Panday? >> I was, a great time. >> So, SAP, things are going well. I see SAP at lots of shows. You've been on our program at a few different ones. You are based here in Europe now, you're from the US. Chris, introduce us a little bit. Give us some of the summary of what brings you specifically to the event. >> Well, I mean, several things. So, my responsibility is looking after data platform. And what we're doing from a strategy perspective, what we're doing, what applications we're building on that in the cloud, what we're doing, everyone asks what are you doing with HANA? What are you doing with Data Hub? And so that's the core of what I spend time on. But equally I think you need to step back and look at SAP's business 'cause we're also, we're our own OEM, right? HANA's what makes S4 possible. HANA's what powers all of our cloud applications. We're going to announce now that everyone one of those, everyone of the acquired companies now runs on HANA and not on any other database. And so you really see these three pillars of SAP. You talk about I've been with SAP seven years ago, and everyone said, why would you go there? Because there's this old applications company that seems to be getting, oh, and even Hasso Plattner, our founder, was saying that was true. Came out with HANA, that we quickly streamed up. Passed Teradata, become the number four database company in the world. Still growing phenomenally. They used HANA as a method of rejuvenation for originally S4 and now that's gone to the cloud. And during that time, we were able to acquire all these cloud applications and build those, SuccessFactors, Ariba, and other stuff, and that's become a wildly successful business. >> Yeah, Chris, I wanted to step back for a second because you talk about data products. >> Yeah. >> You know, I've watched databases for my entire career. I've watched the huge growth of the importance of data. Especially the last few years. You know, we went through that big data wave, which was kind of middle end success, but everything today, data is the center of it all. You know database is where a lot of data live, but how am I getting, and how are customer getting more advantage out of their data when they are using your products? >> It's a great question. So, one is it continues to be the fact that now, people now have realtime access to that information. And it continues to actually be the biggest driver, to be honest. The other one where we see HANA getting picked, especially, is when you have tens or even hundreds of data feeds coming in simultaneously. Frequently, some are streaming, some are traditionally relational, coming from all different systems, and people then want to do analytics on that. But when we talk about analytics, I don't just mean a BI tool, although you could, but now we're doing predictive on that. And, in fact, and then figuring out how does a data scientist then go through, do machine learning, build a model, deploy for scoring, from a full lifecycle perspective. And that's where HANA's getting used tremendously, is in these analytic systems, and data warehousing, and in particularly people going, I want a realtime data warehouse. The other one where we see it being a lot more is in applications where HANA originally was only for SAP applications. We got a huge amount of work on that to make it work for OEM, ISVs, to port their applications over. And you've been seeing that continuously. I think there's some phenomenal work we've done with Esri. HANA's now the fastest geospatial database in the world. And Esri has about 80% of the geospatial market. Now prefers and runs on HANA. So that's been huge. So customers are beginning to use it in more areas. Not just SAP customers, or the CIO who ran the SAP systems, we're getting used a lot by the chief data officer's division. We're getting used out by other groups. We're getting used by specialty firms doing things like geospatial, doing text analytics. And so it's been kind of exciting. I don't know if I answered your question, by the way, but-- >> No, I think that was really good. >> So that sounds like you positioned yourself to enable customers to make the most out of the cloud, make the most out of data, make the most out of IoT. But I'm curious, how are helping customers succeed in that digital transformation? >> Yeah, well, with the digital transformation, and the way I always look at digital transformation, well, it's like big data, what does it mean, right? But what you see the patterns are is people are trying to remove layers between them and the actual consumer or the product. And if I can take those layers out, now you have people like Netflix who went all the way from just saying, let's make it easier to get a DVD, but now they are the movie studio directly to the consumer. They got rid of the 18-year-old kid at the video store, they got rid of everything through streaming. They went out on the, business. They took out all these layers and got closer. Whether it's Airbnb and all these pure plays, that's exactly, they've reduced the number of layers. Our existing customers are trying to do the same thing. They're saying, how do I get closer? How do I understand them? That requires, like if I'm running machinery, IoT data will tell me exactly how they use my machinery. If I can then start to take a look at that, now they want to work with me in different ways. Customers dictate how they're going to work with me. That means if they want to come over the web one time, other time they want to phone, they should always be treated equally based on how important they are to me. Reducing layers. Equally, though, you always have to be worried about someone coming out of nowhere, the pure play that comes in with a brilliant idea in your division, and you can't let 'em just take you out. So what we're seeing is these traditional companies, not necessarily know what the digital transformation is, but saying, I've basically got to get fit. And I can't do that with a really complicated landscape. If my department says, oh, that's great, new business model? We got to have the accounting up and ready in three years to compete with this new entrant. It's not going to work. Yet you upgrade your systems, and let's say SAP is financials, somebody comes up with a new business model, that's a day change in the system. You want to reorganize, that's a few clicks in the system, and I have a new hierarchy. That used to be a two year process. And so we working in all different aspects. We can do the IoT, we can do the agile work, we can have the data science machine learning understand the customer, all the way back to the applications that are agile now as people upgrade to the S4 system. >> Alright, I want to bring us back to the Nutanix show here, Chris. >> We like Nutanix, let's help them here. >> That's great, let's talk about platforms out there. You have applications that they all want to get certified on. Your application certified on their platform, so it's always, okay, am I SAP certified? And, okay, Nutanix even went through some redesign in there file system to make sure that they run really well for HANA and we're real excited for the certification there. Talk a little bit about what goes into that. Is there joint efforts between the companies? Or is it just their going through and following the process that you've got to describe? >> While I was on stage with Dheeraj and this wasn't, although it's nice to say supported database, this was a year and half effort. In memory computing, people get in and go, okay, it's not just a big data cache, this is a fundamentally different way software runs. How data stored in memory uses caches. So Nutanix worked with us, back and forth, on we would have this happen. Now it was worth it to us. Our customers have been demanding simpler infrastructure. And these hyper-converged infrastructures are exactly that. And Nutanix being the leader, we wanted to be supportive. This is good for both of us. If our customers can have agility on both sides of the business, running traditional SAP applications, they've got to ramp up, they need to add 100,000 users at quarter end, they can do that with a Nutanix platform. Equally, they want to quickly bring up an agile data mark for project basis, click a button, have a new data mark in seven minutes like they did on stage. And maybe they don't even want to do that when they're on on-prem/cloud. They want to do that on AWS or somewhere, GCP, they can do that. Yet that's all controlled from a single interface running through Nutanix. So really, really good for both of us. >> SAP is partial with a lot of companies out there, so you have kind of a neutral view when it comes down to everything. I'm sure you have certain partners you work more with and less. But what are you hearing from your customers? How do they think of cloud today? And any more about the Nutanix connection along the way. >> Yeah, it's interesting 'cause talk about data density, the most valuable data a company has is sitting, you typically, if they're an SAP customer, it's in their SAP system. It's exactly who is my customer, what did they buy, what is their service, what is their bill of material? All that, it's very value dense. It's the huge amount of security governance. What we've actually been seeing is a lot of them, yes, we're moving those workloads to the cloud to save money, I've actually seen a fair number come back on-premise. 'Cause they're saying, look, I'm not getting rid of SAP for easily the next seven, but we have no plans. So then they're realizing, I can run this on a private cloud infrastructure and actually save a ton of money. So they've been pulling back on prem, and we've been hearing that from all, the Forrester, and Gartner, and IDC are saying the same things. We have a lot of folks who don't want to go to the cloud with that core system yet, or they're saying, look, I got to save money and I think I'm going to the cloud, but I'm not ready. And so that's exactly where we see private cloud being really, really crucial, and then the ability to then push out and be ready to go to the cloud. Nutanix really is a good solution for that. And in particular, on-prem database right now, depends who you get your estimates on, is roughly growing at 5% to 8%, five year kay-ger. On-prem private cloud is forecasted to go up 26%. I mean, that is massive. Cloud's only 40 overall for databases. So you see it's a close second. So, huge, huge growth. What's declining is bare metal on-prem, it's gone. Everyone wants to run an either virtualized or fully hyper-converged infrastructure now, even on-prem. So we see people, like I said, staying on, getting ready to go to the cloud. A lot of people pushing workloads to the cloud, but even some repatriation. >> Alright, well, Chris Hallenbeck, really appreciate the updates. Thanks for everything and-- >> Well, thanks for having me. I always love speaking with you guys, thank you. >> Awesome, thanks so much. Joep Piscaer, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with more programming from Nutanix .Next 2018, thanks for watching theCUBE. (futuristic buzzing) (futuristic electronic music)

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. (techy music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman with my cohost Joep Piscaer, and this is Nutanix .NEXT 2018 in London, England. Always happy to have a customer on the program, and even more when we've got a CIO, the ones that are sitting in the hot seat. Bob Brown, who's the CIO of information, communication, and technology with Manchester Gov. Thank you for having, you know, the show in your home country, and a pleasure to talk with you. >> Great, thanks for letting me be joining your panel today. >> So, Bob, you know, I've been an analyst for about, coming up on nine years now, and the role of the CIO is something that just gets, you know, looked at under a microscope. It's, you know, how's the role changing, you know, is there a future for the CIO? Does everything does just go away? Does the CMO take it, who takes your budget? So, I'm sure in your role things are, you know, nice and mellow. You kind of sit in a comfy chair, everybody comes and asks you for things nicely and throws money at you, did I get things right? >> That's completely at the different end of the scale of where my business is. >> Yeah. >> Completely untrue. >> Yeah. >> There's no comfy chair, to start with. Let's be honest, right? (chuckling) Our business is 24 by seven, so within the context of what most people think of local government, we're providing critical services that are fundamentally helping our entire 600,000 residents in Manchester to interact with our council services, and they need to do that at a time that's convenient for them. >> Yeah. >> So, it's constantly evolving, constant challenges, and inevitably public sector life, financially, hugely difficult for us to balance the books. >> You know, bring us insight to this. You've got 600,000 customers, you know. >> Yeah. >> Are they all stopping you at the, you know, local grocery and being, like, you know, "Hey, I need this done," or "This isn't working right?" What are, you know, some of the big things that are, you know, impacting you? What's happening in your space? >> Yeah, okay, well look, we've got 7,500 colleagues that work at the council, and we're supporting 600,000 people, nearly 600,000 people that live in the area, and they live in the area for all sorts of reasons, okay. Some of them are part of the digital transformation that is going on, some of them are moving to the area because of the economic buoyancy that we have within the region. I think outside of London, Manchester is the place that people want to be, and they're seeing a big explosion of new jobs and innovation, and we've got big brands, Google are there, Amazon have just launched new services that they're bringing, 600 new, high quality digital jobs into the area. We've got Microsoft there, this is an enormous digital economy that's constantly evolving, and inevitably, those people that are studying at our big universities want to live and work in an environment that is conducive for their personal development, their career direction, but they live in the city, they want to be using services in a way that is more modern than ever before, and they want to take the experiences that they perhaps had in different cities and different countries and know that they can get those, and beyond, in Manchester. >> And so, you know, if people... You know, I'm betting they have different expectations now. So, you know, it used to be you go up to an office, you get a ticket, and you ask your question, right? I'm assuming that experience has changed as well for Manchester, for the government, so servicing your customers in a more digital way, basically? >> Yeah, very much so. Look, I've been at Manchester City Council now just over three years, and in that time I think it's true to say that the services weren't quite where they needed to be. There was some element of investment that was needed, and we've had to pull, really, a good transformation approach together. We've had to up skill many of the team. We've had to look to attract some new people with some new experiences into the group, and we've had to fundamentally change the relationship between what was the technology function, and somewhat isolated from frontline business into it being a critical enabler of transformation for our entire council. That's really what we've had to do. >> I love that, Bob, you've kind of teed up the digital transformation story, which has been, you know, at the heart of a lot of the discussions we've been having for the last couple of years. I wonder if you can help us walk through that a little bit, you know, what have you done kind of on the, you know, foundational platform infrastructure layer to change-- >> Yeah. >> What's happening on the applications on top of that, and then the people side, of course, is you know, immensely-- >> Yeah, of course. >> Important that you raise. >> Look, in our world I think it's helpful, I think, to firstly, set the agenda, and our agenda is predicated on service and availability of our services being our number one priority, so therefore, any down time, any lack of availability, any service failure has a core direct relationship impact with the people who are using our services. When you work in local authority terms, some of your others may be aware of this, or maybe others that are listening to this today, we're not dealing with inconvenience factors if services fail. This isn't an ATM card not working to give you £20 from the hole in the wall. Whilst that's hugely frustrating, I get that, in my world, if certain services aren't available, we're not helping some of the most vulnerable people that need our services to work. We could be making decisions that affect their lives. We could be making decisions that are also helping people to process, unfortunately, those that have passed away. Our coroner's service, a critical service that we provide at the council. You must remember, we're dealing with, truly, the lives of the people who use our services, and those, not just that emotional connection that we therefore have as residents, it really extends beyond technology. Technology, for me, is an enabling function for us that has got to be always available, hence why we make some of the decisions that we do around the core infrastructures that we have. So, for me, the core infrastructure is our foundation level, of which we build our reputation, we build our services on, we build the reliance that we have as an organization. Our use of Nutanix as a technology enables us to be able to build greater levels of resilience, also, so that if we do have a failure, the reality is that our user base will likely never know it's happened, only my team may, but for us, that foundation level gives us the ability to then start more strategic conversations with our business. It's very difficult to have a strategic relationship about change when you fundamentally can't provide the core service, so you've got to start there. >> So, tell us a little about, you know, what is your use of Nutanix. How do you use it and how does it improve that foundational level to actually deliver those services to your customers? >> Well, for us, our journey started about six months ago, and we're already transitioning, in fact, nearly getting to the end of the first stage of our journey of transitioning into the hyperconverged infrastructure, which is critical for us for many, many different reasons. Our fundamental business case was around our ability to be able to clearly change our whole dynamics around resilience, but also reduce our carbon footprint, reduce the number of servers that we have to power so our power consumption has changed. We're already delivering on some of those business case values in a very, very short space of time, so for us, the ability to pick up our infrastructure and be able to now put that in a new environment has created, already, a significant change for our organization, and one that we can build on. >> Okay, yeah, Bob, since it's so recent, you know, give us, paint us a little picture kind of the before and after, like did it reduce the amount of people that needed to focus specifically on infrastructure? Did you have to do some rescaling? You said you've done some, you know, changes in personnel and hiring and training recently. Help us understand. >> Yeah. Yeah, look, in our case, we needed to look at technology enabling us to be able to demonstrate and deliver on our core strategic objectives. So, for me, our data center is very much about how we house and how we service with keeping our data safe and secure and always available. That enables us to be able to also support some elements of our social value, so for us, the ability to be working with a partner who are absolutely strategically aligned with where our strategic direction is as an organization is fundamental for us, and our ability to be able to therefore then no longer need some of those personnel who were providing day-to-day services around the data center, because those skills now can be used elsewhere within my service. We've got a situation where we can now be confident that the resilience of that new infrastructure is such that we no longer need to have an individual babysitting those services, now where that technology enables us to be able to do it automatically. >> All right, you mentioned that you're finishing phase one, so maybe can you step back and whatever you're allowed to share, a little bit of-- >> Sure. >> What is the phased approach, you know, where do you go with Nutanix and the surrounding solutions with it? >> Well, look, our use of Nutanix and our ability to be able to partner with what is clearly a recognized Gartner Magic Quadrant, top right organization, enables us to be able to get access to some further elements of innovation. The difficulty in the public sector of having an R&D function is frankly, it's impossible. Our relationship with our partners is how we leverage, frankly, innovation, and where we get some of that from. So, the first stage for us was very much about getting some of the core foundations there, but beyond that it's about how they can help us also unlock other elements of our strategic goals and objectives, and one of those is about how we can use our new relationships. In Manchester we have devolved budgets from central government, enabling our health colleagues and our local authority colleagues come closer together, for us to share information, share data, and for us to be able to make even greater, richer decisions about the care and support of people. In some cases, that is going to enable us to be able to use assisted living technology that's going to be housed and run in our new data center environment that is going to fundamentally change the way that we provide healthcare services in the future. That's a real strategic aim for us. >> You know, how does IoT fit into your future plans? I don't know if it's tied with, if you've talked to Nutanix about what they're doing there. >> Yeah. >> But it's been something I've found a lot of governments similar to yours are looking in that space. >> Look, I think IoT is inevitably something that people like me have to consider and think about. I guess I would say that IoT is, at one level, a whole bunch of individual devices that work on their own platforms that don't talk to each other, and in the healthcare space, that ain't going to work for us. That's just not going to be it. We're going to have to have a platform by which those that are providing the healthcare services, using technology that's deployed in a patient, and now a resident scenario, to fundamentally change that dial from it's providing what is a reactionary healthcare service and being much more proactive, so those data sets have got to come together, and that ability for us, then, to be able to use that data to help us do predictive analytics in the future, and for us to be able to stop the ability for somebody to get so ill they have to go back into the acute care scenario is crucial, and that's, again, for us is how we think IoT has to, for us, develop a relationship with our various partners who discretely provide those services by bringing those things together, and that's where I think our relationship with Nutanix will help us unlock, and really discover, how we might be able to manage that and deliver some of those things quickly. >> So, one of the things that you do as a CIO is, you know, think about the hybrid cloud strategies, right? So, you're talking about these separate data silos that you and your partners have now, so what is your strategy to, you know, combine those data sets, or open them up so that you as a government can actually leverage that data from, you know, no matter where it runs, no matter where it is stored? >> Yeah, I think we're at early stages of our data strategy for the council. We certainly have a federated business model that is evident for all to see, and most local authorities are somewhat similar. I think the challenge for us in the future's going to be how we unlock the power of the data that we capture and the relationships that we have today. At the council, one of the key strategic objectives over the next few years is for us to deliver a new customer relationship management function. That will fundamentally enable us to change the way that we are structured internally, the way our organization responds to the way that the different interactions are going to come. Roughly, today, about 50% of our interactions with our customers, with our residents of Manchester, are through a digital channel. That means there's about 50% that have a different experience, and we know we need to change that. So, you know, for us, by really having a strategic vision in terms of where our data strategy needs to be is it enables us to think about that technology that's going to enable us to get there in the future. >> All right, Bob, last thing I want to ask you is it sounds like you've got a lot of moving pieces. If you could go to kind of the vendor ecosystem, so not just Nutanix, but you know, other companies you work with, you know, what could they be doing to make your life easier? >> Look, I think that's a double-edged sword, right? I think the first thing as a public sector, we've got to learn how to get the best from our partners. I think we've got to also create that situation where our partners meet with leadership on a regular basis, and that they've got the opportunity to then talk about, not just the contracts and the SLA and the regular series performance stuff, but much more beyond that. I think as a public sector we've got to open ourselves up to having those conversations more, and I would like our partners to push us to deliver that, if I'm honest. I had our partner event yesterday. We shared a lot about what's going on in the city, a lot about the challenges, but it's true to say today that I'm probably one of, if not the only, local authority doing that. I think I'd like more local authorities to be doing that, and I'd like our partners to be pushing us. It's true in that environment I saw yesterday Nutanix mixing with people from Google, mixing with people from Dell, mixing with people from other brands, for them to be able to also recognize how they can collaborate to bring solutions through to us. >> Well, Bob, really appreciate you sharing with our community what's going on. Congratulations on what you're doing, and wish you the best of luck. >> Many thanks, great tea time, thank you. >> All right, for Joep Piscaer, I'm Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more coverage here from Nutanix .NEXT 2018 in London, thanks for watching theCUBE. (techy music)

>> Live from London England, it's The Cube, covering .Next Conference Europe 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to The Cube, I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host Joep Piscaer. And you're watching The Cube, and actually Bear Grylls is going to be on the keynote shortly, but we're gonna talk a little bit more tech first. First of all I wanna welcome back to the program Chris Kaddaras is the senior vice president and general manager for EMEA with Nutanix, and welcome to the program for the first time, Sylvain Siou, senior director of Systems Engineering, also for EMEA with Nutanix. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> Alright so Chris, we were thinking back, two years ago, the first European show in Vienna, I had you on the program, and you were fresh on, I always loved getting people when they're fresh into the company because they have the why they're joining in, why they think they're doing things. So, bring us up to speed. Two years, couple things have changed in Nutanix, couple things have changed in the industry, but why don't you bring us up to speed? >> Sure, no I'm happy to do that. First I'll tell you that some of the things I told you on the show two years ago actually proved true. I could see the energy in Vienna at that time in regards to what I call kind of a religious following in Nutanix because of the compelling-ness of the technology and the solution, and that hasn't stopped. One thing that I wasn't quite prepared for is just the rate of growth of this company, and how our customers really embraced us in the market. Now in the EMEA market we've had some success I would say. The team's done a really good job. When I started we had less than a thousand customers, now we have over 3,000 customers. When I started with Nutanix, in the region we had about 200 employees, now we have almost 800 employees in the region. So collectively as a region we're growing a bit faster than the rest of the world which is a good thing for us, and customers are showing their appreciation for us, so it's been a really good experience, but something like the hyper-growth that we have at Nutanix takes some getting used to when you come from other companies, but it's been a really good thing for our customers. The thing that I think I'm the most proud of is we've done that hyper-growth and we've still kept our NPS score above 90 for our customers, so our customers are getting a really good experience both from our sales teams, our product, our implementation teams, and our support teams, that it's kept everything in check for our customers which I'm really proud of. >> Well congratulations on that. Sylvain I have to think that your team has something to do with that NPS score. In my career, I have great respect for the SEs, they're the one that have to not only know the product inside and out, but they need to be working closely with the customers, have a good viewpoint on the customers. Being here at a European show, I wanna get your viewpoint. Tell us, what's different here compared to what you hear from people back at Corporate, what are some of the differences here your team sees? >> So we have a very good relationship with Corporate, so we're really aligned and we're involved in the project in same way as any other region. I think we were faster on some very big accounts, and that was really surprising and also the, I think the timing for the need of the customer to solve situation after virtualization was the exact timing when we start in EMEA, the product was mature enough so that was exactly the right timing, it's five years ago when I joined, so really we solved this first situation and after that everything we promised in term of making this platform a true cloud platform for enterprise is there, I think all these services on top of it, who have the same kind of services you can see on public cloud, is there, we show it this morning, and now giving the ability to the customer to manage situation with this cloud from different providers and what is on premise is there, so I think all the control, the costs on the compliance and so on have done a lot to manage the situation and take you through the control everyday. >> So, what is the adoption maybe compared to the US for the core products that you have now versus the additional services? Is there a big change or a big difference between the US and Europe or, what are you seeing with your customers? >> So, we follow the same path. There is some region and maybe I will relay on Chris, some region that we invest later than the others so, of course France, Germany, UK, Northern Europe was really the beginning and after that we have more southern regions or eastern region that come after, but we are surprised sometimes because people can jump to the last technology faster than the others, so I don't think there are really rules, there is really people who is painpoint, we have the solution, and when it fits, they go faster. >> Yeah I think from a solution perspective we are thriving at the same rate our emerging technologies into the market as our other regions in the world. In some cases we're ahead, things like IoT, what was originally called Sherlock, we're ahead, we have like first customer, second customer to start coming to adopt, so we do have markets within the EMEA region that are much earlier adopters compared to other regions. Think of places like the Middle East, the Nordics, France, adopting much quicker than some other regions of the world. So we see our new products starting to roll, we're really excited about Xi Leap, I know that the first instantiation went live, I think yesterday or today within the Americas, we're looking forward to going live within London, and then moving in to mainland Europe from there, and I think that will be a huge difference-maker for us in the markets as well. >> So looking at those regions specifically, I know there's a couple of markets in Europe, especially Germany, that have such strict data sovereignty laws that it makes it really difficult to actually do business from a DR or cloud perspective. How's Nutanix dealing with that? >> I think that's where we... When we have our SAS-based products, that's a challenge. When we have our cloud-based products, that's a challenge.` So, for our cloud-based products we have a plan really quickly to go into places that have data sovereignty compliance regulations that they have to adhere to. So Germany, we have a plan to go into Germany really quickly; we obviously have a plan to go into some other markets, Amsterdam, we have a plan to go into London for cloud. For SAS, a lot of customers are consuming SAS and they're okay if there's a good security problem, parameter around SAS, and they're consuming Salesforce.com without data centers, they're consuming other products that way so, as long as we put the right security parameters in place, then their consumption model around SAS is typically gonna work, I don't see us distributing SAS data centers all throughout every market in the world to do that. Our core product right now consumption is mostly local, and it's consumed either in an appliance way or it's consumed in a software way, so that's not something that we have to worry about. >> Yeah it's interesting, you wonder if North America has a greater adoption of public cloud, if that actually gets you an advantage in the EMEA region here to get deeper with some of the core and essential offerings. >> It does; customers will adopt a private cloud because of those data sovereignty regulations. But a lot of the uber-clouds have come in and solved that, they've come in into country, they've created gov clouds, they've done it in Germany, they've done it in the UK, so they're starting to solve that, but they have to put out a lot of investment to do that. But it has given us a lead in the marketplace, but there are certain markets that are very much like the US market, so the UK, it's very similar to the US market with regards to uber-cloud or public cloud adoptions so in that market we have a lot of opportunities with somebody like Beam, because they've consumed a lot of the other uber-clouds, whether it's AWS, UCP, or... And we have that opportunity to sit down and provide them with solutions. >> Sylvain, what else are you hearing from your customers, what are some of the pain points that they're feeling that your team's able to help with? >> Clearly in the past we saw the proliferation of the VM, and we find a way to control that, but with the cloud the proliferation is without any limits. So really this is something important for the customer to take back control, take control of the shuttle IT and so on, and it's very lowly. And also I want to take a specific point really the R&D are really taken care of when we see in the field, I will take just an example, the synchronus replication, metro-culturing and stuff like this to high availability, between (inaudible) and so on, it's typically European, because we have fiber, we are really city close to each other and so on, in America, that makes no sense, and really at really early stage of the company we get the R&D taking care of that, developing specifically for our market what is needed for our market, and it means that we're a really global company and not really American company, we have also R&D in different places, we have in Serbia with Frame, we have in India, and so on, so really to be really taking care of each issue or pain point of the customer is really our main driver. >> So one of those other differences I see a lot is the scale of the organization, the size. So what is an SMB in the Americas might be an enterprise in Europe. So what are the solutions you have for those types of customers, for that problem? >> So definitely we need, so we are talking to customers we have a critical science, they need to have a minimum of VM to face the issue of the bottom neck of the storage or the management part and so on, but also we have example of small customers just need a platform that works, and don't want to have anyone taking care of it. And so now it's like you phone, you don't take care of the storage and CPU, it's just your application and that's it, could be internal, external, and so on, so really the SMB of course is not the main market for us, it's more the big account and so on, but we have all kinds of customers in any verticals, there is no specific one that we cover, and it's really because the platform is something that has become just normal to be invisible. >> Yeah I would add on that, if you don't mind, I'd say that the nice thing about the product is it's in a form factor in a pricing mechanism that can be consumed from SMB all the way up to global accounts. That's the nice thing. Now, maybe we spend a lot of our field resource on mid-market up, because that's where we get larger transactions from customers, and it's just a value conversation with regards to return on investment, but the nice thing is our product can be consumed at the smallest customer. We have just released new pricing mechanisms that allow our customers to now consume at much smaller levels, so we're not allow for SMB but for ROBO, because if you think about it if you just have a one size fits all pricing structure how does that work in the data center, that same price doesn't work in the ROBO area, so you have to give the customers the ability to look at the same experience in the remote office or the small sites compared to a data center, and that's something that we've just kinda brought to the market in the last three to four months, and I think that's a real advantage of not only the product but the pricing structure. >> Chris, we wanna give you the final word. If EMEA customers, what do you want them taking away from this week? >> Sure. I think, they've already told me, and I'll tell you, which is good, 'cause it's what I want them to take away, is just the credibility that Nutanix is here for the enterprise work load, they can look at their entire data center delivery mechanism on a Nutanix platform. But also Nutanix is a company they should be looking for for their cloud-based platform. There is a decision in the marketplace to be had right now around what do you use for your cloud, lack of a better word, orchestration layout, cloud automation layout? And there's only a few choices in the market today, some of them are more open source, some of them are specific vendors, and what I want them to take way is Nutanix is an option for that, leave it up to me and my team to prove why we think we're the best option for it, but that's really what I want them to take away, the credibIlity of tier one platforms running Nutanix in their data center, and then two, Nutanix for the cloud-based platform. >> Congratulations on the progress. I wanna say some feedback I've heard from customers is despite how fast Nutanix has been growing, they still feel that they're getting the personal touch, don't feel like just a number for some fast-growing company so congrats on that, I know a lot of effort goes into that. Alright so we're at the end of the Day 1 for Joep Piscaer, I'm Stu Minimn, be sure to join us tomorrow for a full day of wall-to-wall coverage. Of course go to theCube.net for all the websites to watch us live and on demand for all the shows we're doing and once again thank you for watching the cube. (digital music)