>>live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next I'm your host Rebecca Knight alongside my co host Stew Minutemen. We have two guests for this segment we have. Mika will lose. She's the art director for Nutanix Thank you so much for coming on the show. >>Thank you for inviting me >>And we have Satish Ramachandran, Global head of design at Nutanix Thank you so much for coming on. So it's always so much fun to talk to really creative people, particularly in this technology world. I want to start the conversation by asking Michael first where you go for inspiration and who do you talk to? What he read? What kinds of things do you look at to inspire you to and then bring them back to your job here in Nutanix. So I strongly >>believe that inspiration come from everywhere. No matter where you go is an architecture or you go to the supermarket and you look on packaging or you read a book and you think about images or even just social media. And there is so much variety of different opinion and different cultures to get inspired from. Even from this conference, we took inspiration from Copenhagen, the city, and from Swiss design or from California and divide in the mid century. I put, like not in construction, but like architecture. Er, um, we created this really Sundwall the supreme the best day ever. And I was actually reading a book with my kids, the diary of a wimpy kid. And I was like, Okay, you know what? We can make something really fun out of it. We can take like a page from a diary and create Sabrina Best day, something like that. >>It was truly everywhere. >>It's really every. >>How about Yusa? Tish >>men? It's two parts, actually. I think one is the inspiration when it comes to the aesthetics of design. So to a large degree, I'm a huge fan off minimalism, everything from Japanese paintings, for example, where with two or three strokes, you have a stark on the water. The Bauhaus movement clean, elegant lines very minimal to the point, and even the Scandinavian architecture, for example, is quite minimalistic and very clean. So that is one angle on what we strive to do in terms off getting to minimal, clean, simple. But in the other portion of inspiration is actually comes from empathy because, you know, it's the you know, I care deeply about the human condition, even pre Nutanix sort of teenage angst that never left me right. And ah, so in a sense, is a lot of empathy. Toe what people are going through in terms of technology, how they're using it. How can we make their lives easier? How can we bring about some joys in their life and to a large degree, the secretary working? You know, I t, um, has bean sort of underserved design wise for many years on de. So there's a lot of inspiration that comes in the form of motivation in order to do something for people there. >>Well, yes, it's a teacher, I'm wondering, can help connect the dots with us. I think of minimalism and obviously ties to this simplicity Nutanix and remember in the early days, talking Nutanix to make something truly simple from a technology standpoint usually has a lot of work, and we've been talking to the executive team about, you know, in this multi cloud, highly disperse. Tear it even harder today. So how does some of those core design principles make their way into into Nutanix is world. >>You want me to talk about the process? You know, I >>think >>the process is quite straightforward. I mean, you start with understanding the space, understanding the experience that exists in the space. You don't start with the feature or the product. That's the first thing you start with the people. So you started with a very human centric manner on. Okay, What are they trying to do? What are they trying to achieve and how do you get them in the simplest possible manner to do that? So we have this thing that we use called intentional our design, which is one off our design principles. Very. How do you get someone who has an intention to fulfill their intention with the least amount of effort? And the effort in the middle is what we label less friction constantly. So we talk about trying to become friction less and so on. So the process for that is you start with the person what they're trying to get done, and >>from there you actually >>work all the Muslims in the organization. So design, basically at that point takes on the role of a facilitator by bringing in, you know, engineering product management design itself together and all in service off the user to create an experience, right? So it starts with, you know, formulating the requirements together with engineering and product management. It's address it, then converging on these things by creating prototypes than testing these things with users and so on and then figuring out really what is essential, what can be thrown out and how to keep it really simple. And that's how we build product, basically. >>So that's so. As you said, it starts with this point of empathy, and that is this collaborative process between the engineers and the artists and design team. How would you say that design is more part of the Nutanix philosophy, just rather than the simple, simple, easy, elegant products itself but the entire company? How would you say it's it's built into the philosophy? I actually think this is >>why Nutanix is so unique in our space because we don't just look at the technology we looking at a whole package of design and technology, the left brain and the right brain together. And it comes from our leadership because, dear, it is the great advocator for design. He's really believing in the importance of it, not just a pretty rap on something, but it's something that is meaningful and and really able to provide a full experience for our customers. >>Yeah, meet me how maybe I love to get you both of your commentary. There's a new AH advertising campaign that was launched. The video was in the keynote yesterday. >>It >>all together now it is very colorful, and it is very diverse and at the same time, even, you know, I'm a technology guy. I will often roll my eyes when I see a certain advertising, but to articulate to the world, it's like, Okay, how does my database and multi cloud and all these things play together? Well, way we anthropomorphized though those technology pieces into people on dhe. You've got photos that you can do there, so bring us inside a little bit as to how that you helped the messaging eso some, you know, pretty complex pieces underneath. >>Yes, we're very excited about this campaign. I have to tell you. We worked very hard to conceptualize it and bring it out to the world. And we were very excited to be able to share it here. That next the thinking behind it. Waas, you know I to world is complex and here in Nutanix, we really try to offer a simple way to remove this complexity. So what is a better way than just take those I t concept and business an application manners and personalize them and make them fun. And when you think about Public Cloud, what do you mean? What does it mean to you? How do you envision it when you think about a database? Do you think about the strongman that carrying the cylinder and you >>make it a >>campaign Maur You humanize it, you make it accessible to people and you make it fun And this is what we're trying to do We're trying to delight. Our customers were trying to empower them to be able to do their business in a better way, and that was our goals provide simplicity, choice and delights. >>And as you said, it's it's this ample anthropomorphizing of this. If you've a database where a person what would go with the database person look like it's the cloud Where Human? Yes, exactly. And it just I think they just >>make make it fun and you make it unique and you create something that is different in our scene. And nothing, That's what we're trying to do. >>How do you work together with the engineers? I mean, I know you said. You gather in a room and you are thinking about the end user. How does the customer experience this? But how do artists and engineers communicate? I mean, is that Is that ever a challenge or >>not? Really? No, not really. Actually, it's, Ah, it's a three legged stool. Basically, there's ah, and you know, if you put marketing in there as well for the awareness piece, which precludes anything that we you know the customer uses, it actually becomes a four legged stool. But in terms of building product, it's a three legged stool, which is product management, and they're trying to figure out what is the product market fit, and that's what they bring to the table. The engineer's coming and as we're dreaming up stuff, they're thinking, Is this stuff buildable or not? You know these guys dreaming way too much, right? And so it is a colonization. So and I think that's the crucible in which the best creativity actually comes out. It's not designing isolation where, you know, design dreams up something and the rest of the folks build it. It really isn't that so. We are, actually, in a sense, the way I see it, we have the glue and we formed the Crucible for the colonization. And and in that, you know, good things come out. >>So we hear you are in Denmark, which is design savvy, fashion forward, food obsessed and eyes cultivating that sense of well being in comfort and coziness. What kinds of things are you going to take with you from this conference itself? What are you seeing? What's interesting to you? And how are you gonna bring that back to Nutanix? >>Honestly, for me, I think it's just the warmth of the people in the community in here. They were so invasive and and and kind. And we got a chance to work with a lot of people when we were building this conference. And and to me it's all about the human connection and I think this is something that I will definitely carry with me when we go back to Nutanix. And we were trying to think about our next dock next conference. And you know how we can bring some of that too there as >>well? Yeah, it's to teach anything on dot next Copenhagen, and you know, you're from Berlin, so you're in Europe and get gets a different, you know, cultural input. I >>think they're still. I think >>there is still some stuff. I think around the accessibility mainly for me, like the hotel we're staying. And, you know, first thing I noticed was, you know, that's bringing on, you know, when you have to open the refrigerator, for example, or the closet door And it, I mean, that first thought was like, you know, they have already designed in the accessibility. And then I liberate that back to product, and I think you know how we doing on accessibility. And of course, you know, everything around you here is pretty inspiring in terms of architecture and so on and so forth. So that's a gimme, really. And you see that a lot of it in Germany so that it isn't as much new, but in terms of the conference, it's very heartening that will come this fire. You know, I don't know. Miami many years ago, which is my first conference, you know, we were like all of 600 people, and now we are 4500 here. So in a sense, it's very heartening. And people seem to embrace the, you know, the vision that we're putting foot. Yeah, you know, around convergence off many, many things. >>How deeply technical are both of you? Um, I understand. >>I understand the technology. I understand the struggle. I understand what we're trying to achieve is a company. It doesn't mean I can go and do a demo on stage, but I think it's important to understand the technology of the company that you work for in order to represent it truly and in order to convey the message that we're trying to tell because we are a storyteller. That's what we do. We take the message and the technology, and we bring it out to our customers. So it's important. >>I'm a dyed in the wool engineer s o. I was I mean, my cases where I was an engineer for a fleet to the kids. You know, you take running engineering teams, that kind of stuff. And then I stumbled upon design. So I have a very deep understanding off engineering and what it takes to build stuff. But I have another side of me which is generally around. Empathy, experiences, you know, human interaction, human behavior. What makes people take what frustrates them, those kinds of things. So for me that we design has beena synthesis off many off my interests, and that's why I fell in love with it and have stuck around. >>One of the biggest issues in Silicon Valley and in the technology industry at large is is the skills and the right people the talent gap? How much of an issue is that for the design teams within these technology companies? Because you are looking for so many different skills people who can grasp the technology but then also have this more creative spark Innis to them to how hard is it to find the right people? I think it's a little bit >>of a challenge, but I think we're very fortunate to have amazing teams that understand technology and design in the connection between them. So I know I feel very fortunate with the people I get to work with. Their very there are amazing. Yeah. >>I mean, it was hard in the beginning when we when Nutanix was 150 people or something on the brown. Nobody knew. So then it was very hard to find the right people and to also simplified the vision and to sell it. I still remember spending with every new hire. I would be the first guy they would talk to. And I spent two years in two hours on a whiteboard, talking of taking borders, a technology problem on translating it into an experiential problem. And speaking to really this is very hard to design for and that's where the challenge lies, right? But what a period of time we have successfully built a brand which is a Nutanix design brand. And we have done a ton of things that I'm actually very proud off establishing relationships with universities, even on the social media, having a website, having a proper blawg, various things. When Now we are recognized in the enterprise space as a place for designers to go and work. And there is a certain combination. I figured out where which makes for a good designer in the space. Because if you take people with too little off a technology background, then the ramp up is very high. S o. If you typically you find somebody who's got done some amount of technology than the prior company or in school. And there are people like that. There are plenty of them. And then they moved on to design. And that seems to be the right mix because they can understand the empathize both on the technology side and also on the design side of things. And that makes for the right combination. >>And it's not >>too bad to find people. >>And I think >>technology can be talked. But I think passion and carrying is that part of it is hard to find >>be innate skills. Yeah, exactly. Great. Well, Miguel and McHale and Satish thank you so much for coming on the Cuba and fun and enlightening a conversation. Thank you so >>much. It's great to be here. Thank you so much. >>Thank you, guys. >>I'm Rebecca Knight for stew Minutemen. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next

>> It's the Cube covering IBM cheap Data Officer Strategy Summit brought to you by IBM. Now, here are your hosts Day villain day and still minimum. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is the Cube, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. We here at the Chief Data Officers Summit that IBM is hosting in Boston. I'm joined by Courtney Abercrombie. According your your title's too long. I'm just gonna call you a cognitive rockstar on >> Alec Crane is >> here from Yusa. System by President, Vice President at that firm. Welcome to the Cube. Great to see you guys. Thank you. So this event I love it. I mean, we first met at the, uh, the mighty chief data officer conference. You were all over that networking with the CEO's helping him out and just really, I think identified early on the importance of this constituency. Why? How did you sort of realize and where have you taken it? >> It's more important than it's ever been. And we're so grateful every time that we see a new chief data officer coming in because you just can't govern and do data by committee. Um, if you really hope to be transformational in your company. All these huge, different technologies that are out there, All this amazing, rich data like weather data and the ability to leverage, you know, social media information, bringing that all together and really establishing an innovation platform for your company. You can't do that by committee. You really have to have a leader in charge of it. and that’s what chief data officers are here to do. And so every time we see one, we're so grateful >> that just so >> that we just heard from Inderpal Bhandari on his recommendation for how you get started. It was pretty precise and prescriptive. But I wonder, Alan. So tell us about the chief data officer role at USAA. Hasn't been around for a while. Of course, it's a regulated business. So probably Maur, data oriented are cognizant than most businesses. But tell us about your journey. >> We started probably about 4 or 5 years ago, and it was a combination of trying to consolidate data and analytics operations and then decentralized them, and we found that there was advantages and pros and cons of doing both. You'd get the efficiencies, but once you got the efficiencies, you'd lose the business expertise, and then we'd have to tow decentralize. So we ended up landing a couple of years ago. What we call a hub and spoke system where we have centralized governance and management of key data assets, uh, data modelling data science type work. And then we still allow the, uh, various lines of business to have their own data offices. And the one I run for USAA is our distribution channels office for all of the data and analytics. And we take about 100,000,000 phone calls a year. About 2,000,000,000 webb interactions. Mobile interactions. We take about 18,000 hours. That's really roughly two years of phone conversation data in per day. Uh, we take about 50,000,000 lines of, uh, Web analytic traffic per day as well. So trying to make sense of that to nurture remember, relationships, reinforce trust and remove obstacles >> for your supporting the agent systems. Is that right? >> I support the agent systems as well as the, um, digital >> systems. Okay. And so the objective is obviously toe to grow the business, keep it running, keep the customers happy. Very operate, agent Just efficient. Okay. Um and so when you that's really interesting. This sort of hub and spoke of decentralization gets you speed and closer to the business. Centralization get you that that efficiency. Do you feel like you found that right balance? I mean, if you think so. I >> think you know, early on, we it was mme or we had more cerebral alignment, you know, meaning that it seemed logical to us. But actually, once the last couple of years, we've had some growing pains with roles, responsibilities, overlaps, some redundancy, those types of things. But I think we've landed in a good place. And that's that's what I'm pretty proud of because we've been able to balance the agility with the governance necessary toe, have good governance and put in place, but then also be able to move at the speed the businessmen. >> So Courtney, one of things we heard one of the themes this morning within IBM it's of the role of the chief Data officer's office is to really empower the lines of business with data so that you can empower your customers is what Bob Tatiana was telling us, right? With data. So how are you doing? That is you have new services. You have processes or how is that all working >> right? We dio We have a lot of things, actually, because we've been working so much with people like Allen's group who have been leaders at, quite frankly, in establishing best practices on even how to set up these husbands votes. A lot of people are, you know, want to talk, Teo, um, the CDO and they've spun off even a lot of CEOs into other organizations, in fact, but I mean, they're really a leader in this area. So one of the things that we've noticed is you know, the thing that gives everybody the biggest grief is trying to figure out how to work with unstructured data. Um, and all this volume of data, it's just insane. And just like I was saying in the panel earlier, only about 5% of your actual internal data is enough to actually create a context around your customers. You really have to be able to go with all this exogenous data to understand what were the bigger ramifications that were going on in any customer event, whether it's a call in or whether it's, uh, you know, I'm not happy today with something that you tried to sell me or something that you didn't respond too fast enough, which I'm sure Alan could, you know, equate to. But so we have this new data as a service that we've put together based on the way the weather data has, the weather company has put their platform together. We're using a lot of the same kind of like micro services that you saw Bob put on the screen. You know, everything from, I mean, open source. As much open sources we can get, get it. And it's all cloud based. So and it's it's ways to digest and mix up both that internal data with all of that big, voluminous external data. >> So I'm interested in. So you get the organizational part down. Least you've settled on approach. What are some of the other big challenges that you face in terms of analytics and cognitive projects? Your organization? How are you dealing with those? >> Well, uh, >> to take a step back, use a We're, uh, financial services company that supports the military and their families. We now have 12 million members, and we're known for our service. And most of the time, those moments of truth, if you will, where our service really shines has been when someone talks to you, us on the phone when those member service reps are giving that incredible service that they're known for on the reason being is that the MSR is the aggregator of all that data. When you call in, it's all about you. There's two screens full of your information and the MSR is not interested in anything else but just serving you, our digital experiences more transactional in orientation. And it was It's more utilitarian, and we're trying to make it more personal, trying to make it more How do we know about you? And so one of the cues that were that were taking from the MSR community through cognitive learning is we like to say the only way to get into the call is to get into the call, and that is to truly get into the speech to text, Then do the text mining on that to see what are the other topics that are coming out that could surface that we're not actually capturing. And then how do we use those topics at a member level two then help inform the digital experience to make it more personal. How do I detect life events? Our MSR's are actually trained to listen for things like words like fiance, marriage moving, maybe even a baby crying in the background. How do we take that knowledge and turn that into something that machine learning can give us insights that can feedback into our digital transact actions. So >> this's what our group. >> It's a big task. So So how are >> you doing that? I mean, it's obviously we always talk about people processing technology. Yeah, break that down for us. I mean, how are you approaching that massive opportunity? >> Part of it is is, uh, you know, I look at it. It is like a set of those, you know, Russian nesting dolls. You know, every time you solve one problem, there's another problem inside of it. The first problem is getting access to the data. You know, where and where do you store? We're taking in two years of data per day of phone call data into a system where you put all that right and then you're where you put a week's worth a month's worth a quarter's worth of data like that. Then once you solve that problem, how do you read Act all that personal information So that that private information that you really don't need that data exhaust that would actually create a liability for you in our in our world so that you can really stay focused on what of the key themes that the member needs? And then the third thing is now had. Now that you've got access to the data, it's transcribed for you. It's been redacted from its P I I type work well, now you need the horse power and of analysts on, we're exploring partnerships with IBM, both locally and in in the States as well as internationally to look at data science as a service and try to understand How can we tap into this huge volume of data that we've got to explore those types of themes that are coming up The biggest challenges in typical transaction logging systems. You have to know what your logging You have to know what you're looking for before you know what to put the date, where to put the data. And so it's almost like you kind of have to already know that it's there to know how much you're acquiring for it and what we need to do more as we pivot more towards machine learning is that we need the data to tell us what's important to look at. And that's really the vat on the value of working with these folks. >> So obviously, date is increasingly on structure we heard this morning and whatever, 80 90% is structured. So here you're no whatever. You're putting it into whatever data fake swamp, ocean, everything center everywhere, and you're using sort of machine learning toe both find signal, but also protected yourself from risk. Right. So you've got a T said you gotta redact private information. So much of that information could be and not not no schema? Absolutely. Okay, So you're where are you in terms of solving that problem in the first inning or you deeper than that, >> we're probably would say beyond the first inning, but we so we've kind of figured out what that process is to get the data and all the piece parts working together. We've made some incredible insights already. Things that people, you know, I had no idea that was there. Um, but, uh, I'd say we still have a long way to go. Is particularly terms of scaling scaling the process, scaling the thie analytics, scaling the partnerships, figuring out how do we get the most throughput? I would say it's It's one of those things. We're measuring it on, maybe having a couple of good wins this year. A couple of really good projects that have come across. We want to kind of take that tube out 10 projects next year in this space. And that's how we're kind of measuring the velocity and the success >> data divas. I walked away and >> there was one of them Was breakfast this morning. Data divas. You hold this every year. >> D'oh! It's growing. Now we got data, >> dudes. So I was one of the few data dudes way walked in >> one of the women chief date officers. I got no problem with people calling me a P. >> I No. Yeah, I just sell. Sit down. Really? Bath s o. But also, >> what's the intent of that? What learning is that you take out of those? >> I think it's >> more. It's You know, you could honestly say this isn't just a data Debo problem. This is also, you know, anybody who feels like they're not being heard. Um, it's really easy to get drowned out in a lot of voices when it comes to data and analytics. Um, everybody has an opinion. I think. Remember, Ursula is always saying, Ah, all's fair in love, war and data. Um and it feels like, you know, sometimes you go, I'll come to the table and whoever has the loudest voice and whoever bangs their test the loudest, um, kind of wins the game. But I think in this case, you know, a lot of women are taking these roles. In fact, we saw, you know, a while back from Gardner that number about 25% of chief data officers are actually women because the role is evolving out of the business lines as opposed Thio more lines. And so I mean, it makes sense that, you know, were natural collaborators. I mean, like the biggest struggle and data governance isn't setting up frameworks. It's getting people to actually cooperate and bring data to the table and talk about their business processes that support that. And that's something that women do really well. But we've got to find our voice and our strength and our resolve. And we've got to support each other in trying to bring more diverse thinking to the table, you know? So it's it's all those kinds of issues and how do you balance family? I mean, >> we're seeing >> more and more. You know, I don't know if you know this, but there's actual statistics around millennials and that males are actually starting to take on more more role of being the the caregiver in the family. So I mean as we see that it's an interesting turnabout because now all the sudden, it's no longer, you know, women having that traditional role of, you know, I gotta always be home. Now we're actually starting to see a flip of that, which is which is, >> You know, I think it's kind of welcome. My husband's definitely >> I say he's a better parent than me. >> Friday. It's >> honest he'll watch this and he >> can thank me later that it was >> a great discussion this morning. Alan, I want to get your feedback on this event and also you participate in a couple of sessions yesterday. Maybe you could share with our audience Some of the key takeaways in the event of general and specific ones that you worked on yesterday. >> Well, I've been fortunate to come to the event for a couple of years now. And when we were just what 50 or so of us that were showing up? So, you know, I see that the evolution just in a couple of years time conversations have really changed. First meeting that we had people were saying, Where do you report in the organization? Um, how many people do you have? What do you do for your job? They were very different answers to any of that everywhere. From I'm an independent contributor that's a data evangelist to I run legions of data analysts and reporting shops, you know, and so forth and everything in between. And so what I see what it's offers in first year was really kind of a coalescing of what it really means to be a data officer in the company that actually happened pretty quickly in my mind, Um, when by seeing it through through the lens of my peers here, the other thing was when you when you think about the topics the topics are getting a lot more pointed. They're getting more pointed around the monetization of data communicating data through visualization, storytelling, key insights that you, you know, using different technologies. And we talked a lot yesterday about storytelling and storytelling is not through visual days in storytelling is not just about like who has the most, you know, colors on on a slide or or ah you know, animation of your bubble charts and things like that. But sometimes the best stories are told with the most simple charts because they resonate with your customers. And so what I think is it's almost like kind of getting a back to the basics when it comes to taking data and making it meaningful. We're only going to grow our organizations and data and data scientists and analysts. If we can communicate to the rest of the organization, our value and the key to creating that value is they can see themselves in our data. >> Yeah, the visit is we like to call it sometimes is critical to that to that storytelling. Sometimes I worry and we go onto these conferences and you go into a booth and look what we can do with machine learning, and we would just be looking at just this data. So what do I do? What >> I do with all this? Yeah. >> I don't know how it would make sense of it. So So is there a special storyteller role within your organization or you all storytellers? Do you cross train on that? Or >> it's funny you'd ask that one of the gentlemen of my team. He actually came to me about six months ago, and he says I'm really good at at the analysis part, but I really have a passion for things like Photoshopped things like, uh uh, uh the various, uh, video and video editing type software. He says I want to be your storyteller. I want to be creating a team of data and analytics storytellers for the rest of the organization. So we pitched the idea to our central hub and spoke leadership group. They loved it. They loved the idea. And he is now, um, oversubscribed. You would say in terms of demand for how do you tell the data? How do you tell the data story and how it's moving the business forward? And that takes the form kind of everything from infographics tell you also about how do you make it personal when, when? Now 7,000 m s. Ours have access to their own data. You know, really telling that at a at a very personal level, almost like a vignette of animus are who's now able to manage themselves using the data that they were not able able tto have before we're in the past, only managers had access to their performance results. This video, actually, you know, pulls on the heartstrings. But it it not only does that, but it really tells the story of how doing these types of things and creating these different data assets for the rest of your organization can actually have a very meaningful benefit to how they view work and how they view autonomy and how they view their own personal growth. >> That's critical, especially in a decentralized organization. Leased a quasi decentralized organization, getting everybody on the same page and understand You know what the vision is and what the direction is. It s so often if you don't have that storytelling capability, you have thousands of stories, and a lot of times there's dissonance. I mean, I'm not saying there's not in your in your organization, but have you seen the organization because of that storytelling capability become Mohr? Yeah, Joe. At least Mohr sort of effective and efficient, moving forward to the objectives. Well, >> you know, as a as a data person, I'm always biased thatyou know data, you know, can win an argument if presented the right way. It's the The challenge is when you're trying to overcome or go into a direction. And in this case, it was. We wanted to give more autonomy. Toothy MSR community. Well, the management of that call center were 94 year old company. And so the management of that of that call center has been doing things a certain way for many, many, many, many years. And the manager's having access to the data. The reps not That was how we did things, you know. And so when you make a change like that, there's a lot of hesitation of what is this going to do to us? How is this going to change? And what we're able to show with data and with through these visualizations is you really don't have anything to worry about? You're only gonna have upside, you know, in this conversation because at the end of the day, what's going to empower people this having access and power of >> their own destiny? Yeah, access is really the key isn't because we've all been in the meetings where somebody stands up and they've got some data point in there pounding the table, >> right? Oftentimes it's a man, all right. It >> is a powerful pl leader on jamming data down your throats, and you don't necessarily know the poor sap that he's, you know, beating up. Doesn't think Target doesn't have access to the data. This concept of citizen data scientists begins to a level that playing field doesn't want you seeing that >> it does. And I want to actually >> come back to what you're saying because there's a larger thought there, which is that we don't often address, and that's this change banishment concept. I mean, we we look at all these. I mean, everybody looks at all these technologies and all this information, and how much data can you possibly get your >> hands on? But at the end of >> the day, it's all about trying to create an outcome. A some joint outcome for the business and it could be threatening. It could be threatening to the C suite people who are actually deploying the use of these data driven tools because >> it may go >> against their gut. And, you >> know, oftentimes the poor messenger of that, >> When when you have to be the one that stands up and go against that, that senior vice presidents got it, the one who's pounding and saying No, but I know better >> That could be a >> tough position to be in without having some sort of change management philosophy going on with the introduction of data and analytics and with the introduction of tools, because there's a whole reframing that, Hey, my gut instinct that got me here all the way to the top doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to continue to scale in this new world with all of all of our competitors and all these, you know, massive changes going on in the market place right now. My guts not going to get me there anymore. So it's hard, it's hard, and I think a lot of executives don't really know to invest in that change management, if you know that goes with it that you need to change philosophies and mindsets and slowly introduced visualizations and things that get people slowly onboard, as opposed to just throwing it at him and saying here, believe it. >> Think I mean, it wasn't that >> long ago. Certainly this this millennium, where you know, publications like Harvard Business Review had, uh, cover stories on why gut feel, you know, beats, you know, analysis by paralysis. >> That seems to be changing. And >> the data purists would say the data doesn't lie. It was long as you could interpret it correctly. Let the data tell us what to do, as opposed to trying to push an agenda. But they're still politics. >> There's just things out >> there that you can't even perceive of that air coming your way. I mean, like, Blockbuster Netflix, Alibaba versus standard retailers. I mean, >> there's just things out >> there that without the use of things like machine learning and being comfortable with the use, the things like mission learning a lot of people think of that kind of stuff is >> Well, don't get your >> hoodoo voodoo into my business. You know, I don't know what that algorithm stuff does. It's >> going Yeah, I mean, e. I mean to say, What the hell is this? And now, yeah, it's coming and >> you need to get ready. >> There's an >> important role, though I think instinct, you know, you don't want to dismiss a 20 year leader in a particular operations because they've they've they've getting themselves where they're at because in large part, maybe they didn't have all the data. But they learned through a lot of those things, and I think it's when you marry those things up. And if you kenbrell in a kind of humble way to that kind of leader and win them over and show how it may be validating some of their, um uh yeah, that some of their points Or maybe how it explains it in a different way. Maybe it's not exactly what they want to see, but it's helping to inform their business, and you come into him as a partner, as opposed to gotcha, you know. Then then you know you can really change the business that way. And >> what is it? Was Linda Limbic brain is it just doesn't feel right. Is that the part of the brain that informs you that? And so It's hard to sometimes put, but you're right. Uh, there there is a component of this which is gut feel instinct and probably relates to to experience. So it's It's like, uh, when, when, uh, Deep blue beat Garry Kasparov. We talk about this all the time. It turns out that the best chess player in the world isn't a machine. It's a It's a human in the machine. >> That's right. That's exactly right. It's always the training that people training these things, that's where it gets its information. So at the end of the day, you're right. It's always still instinct to some >> level. I could We gotta go. All right. Last word on the event. You know what's next? >> Don't love my team. Data officer. Miss, you guys. It is good >> to be here. We appreciate it. All right, We'll leave it there. Thank you, guys. Thank you. All right, keep right. Everybody, this is Cuba. Live from IBM Chief Data Officer, Summit in Boston Right back. My name is Dave Volante.