>>from around the globe. >>It's the cube >>With digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cube coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube ricardo for lenses here with me is the global managing director for IBM at Citigroup recorded. Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You're the team leader for Citigroup Managing Director um, a lot going on in the world of finance, Fintech technology, scale transformation. All this is happening. Always a leading edge indicator give us your perspective on the market right now on the, on that vertical and in general because there's so much scale is so much machine learning, so much going on, so much competitive advantages. Give us an overview of the industry, how you see them. >>So john I had the good fortune of working essentially around the world of work in europe in Asia in Australia, back here in north America. And I'll tell you what, there are some, some uh, dynamics are specific to a market. There are also a lot of common threads, right? You know, a lot of common threads right? As you know, my industry, financial services in the middle of uh great disruption right from payments to a global wealth to understand exactly. Not to reposition yourself is a, is a startup. Oftentimes looking time to be dis intimidated by many of the context. I have found that many financial institutions are very adept, a change in the way they operate a lot more nimble than they had been in the past. And they found ways to incorporate a lot of the techniques that some of the Frontex operate with. So they all have shark tanks, they all find a way to uh progress investments that they get to a point of uh, failing fast, right, more are some more adept than others. But for the most part, I'd say that everyone in the market is looking to beef up their, their core competences. >>And, you know, the financial, um, industry has never been shy of using technology ever. They've always poured it on. They always want to get more edge. Um, what's your, what is the edge now in the industry for, um, financial and, and in general, businesses who were learning how to be agile? What's the edge? >>I think the edges really finding a way to be ambidextrous, right? Because in many respects that you don't want to hold on to a franchise to what got you to a level of success. It's oftentimes it's in the case of my client is to be in good stead for more than 100 years, Right? So you don't want to let that go. But you also want to grow a new set of skills and grow competences that they need to take into the future. I have found that in many respects that many of my clients are remind me of what lookers and one said maybe 2025 years ago, our former Ceo and chairman, who said the last thing that IBM needs is a strategy. In fact, I think that many of our financial institutions that don't need a strategy, they just need the competences to innovate and executed scale and it's a lot easier said than that >>card. I want to get your perspective before we move on to some of the initiatives and work at city, which is probably compelling. But I want to get your expert opinion on a question that comes up all the time with customers and that are going post pandemic and looking at growth strategies. The idea of the unit economics of their business models tend to change with more data, more digital acceleration. Is there any observations that you could share for leaders who are looking to get that financial mindset or how the business is changing with whether it's copies or business models. Because at the end of the day, the financial upside of what we're seeing with digital is pretty significant. The economics are seem to be a real game changer on these, these conversations about acceleration, but also the results are business results are money. >>Absolutely, john, as a matter of fact, that I'd argue that while it's true that the common theme, so many and that several of our financial institutions are growing a skill in, in a, in a uh, approaching problems in a different fashion is also true that there's been a lot of redistribution of wealth across financial enterprises, Right? So it's not lost on all of us. Right. The security look at market globalization of the financial institutions, on the work. They really come all over the place with the clear winners in several sectors, site in Asia and europe as quality of North America. So what I argue is that while I think we're all tired of hearing the data is the new oil, right? It's also true that we need to find a way to finally harness the power of it. Right? And that's what I think IBM is more more adept at, right, argue that many of the common threads that we've seen across the financial institutions and back to the, to the measures of success you would indicate in a minute ago, not really around cloud, right around data and around digital transformation. Right? So our approach to cloud, for instance is unique, right? While there are a number of uh very competent hyper scholars, we've taken a different approach to it, right? We've taken our approach is more than after other highly specialized regulated workloads, right. Organ after the layer that allows you to port application seamlessly based on regulation costs and competition across multiple platforms. Right? So this hybrid concept has only been at the center of our strategy and that's the one that mama is is delivering our clients greatest value. Tell you what. I think one client told me once after hearing our hybrid story that while there were many cloud providers, there wasn't anyone that could help them out as much as I B. M. Dealing with your legacy and in all candor. I think it's fair to say that legacy is here to say well past our investment horizon. Right? So that level of self awareness, I think ended up believe forming our collaborations for years to come. >>You know, I'm a big believer and I've reported this and certainly talked to Arvin when um he was on the cube about this microservices, containers, kubernetes, these kinds of new technologies really allow for legacy to integrate well into the new modern era of computing in hybrid cloud. So totally agree. And that is really key tailwind for for innovation and these transformations. I have to ask you ricardo what's going on at city and IBM tell us take us through some things that you're working on, some of the exciting projects that you're driving. >>So the disclaimer is that I started this well three months ago, so I'll try to do my my team proud here. But what I'll tell you is that the teams you talk about are alive and well, it's sitting right? So on the cloudfront we are doing exactly that. We're focusing on on on being uh cities partner on the heavy cloud deployment, acknowledging that higher Ecologist is an ecosystem of participants, right? Technology that IBM s dominance in on prime computing. We'll go through a very different face going forward. We not only a comfortable with it, but we are trying to accelerate its deployment. Right? So you mentioned communities, you mentioned containers, Hence a redhead acquisition, right? Which has been central to the collaboration that we've uh we've established the city and we look at the broad, I'm also gonna go back to data and I will tell you that, uh, you know, uh, cities in the midst of a transformation journey of their own right. It's also the middle of a regulatory challenge. That's second to none. Right. With with the zero cc. Findings that then led to a financial remediation plan that the bank has put in place over the past two months. With that in mind we are looking to help the bank make a make a good crisis make the most of the crisis, right? And so helping, for instance, Mark Sabino, the head of Innovation City, find ways to infuse Ai into their internal Codec practices doing that. It's just smart business. The results in much better outcome at a lower cost and it's something that can scale because it's all seen before. Oftentimes our solutions have lacked the ability to scale to really keep up with them in >>ricardo. The relationship between IBM and city has been long standing. I believe. I read somewhere you're celebrating 100 year partnership. Is that true? If so. I mean, it's a huge milestone. What's the take us through the history and where this is going as a partnership? >>I've heard as a matter of fact is that as I first came on board that in fact our companies have been added for more than 100 years and someone showed me an actual document 100 years old, there was proof positive of that. So I'll tell you, I know that our firms would be added again 100 years from now. I will probably not be here to toast to it but I'm certain they will continue to collaborate and for the strong is this is my responsibility. I'll do whatever I can to help you continue to grow. We're only going to focus on three things I spoke about every cloud. Would you also want to be the partner? Is the bank transforms its operations right and infuse in it. Our Ai and process, information skills and capabilities. I think if we do that, we'll continue to collaborate and will continue to have our partnership fully rests on two pillars that is always independent, which are really innovation can trust >>great commentary, great uh an account that you're leading probably a great team behind how many people are on this team must be pretty massive and I'd love to see that document by the way, was it a memo? Was that type written was a handwritten? You know, it was a P. O. >>It was an Akron document and I get your copy. >>Uh so historic. I love those history. I love the IBM culture longstanding relationships. Final question for you. You've been in the industry for a while, you've seen many waves of innovation if you're talking to a customer, your friend or colleague and they had asked you ricardo, why is this wave so big and so important? What would you tell them, >>john I think at the heart of this transformation, the evolution, the way they should call it is not the intellectual products, the international new processes but entire no value chains that are being established by players that in many cases need need each other to coexist. This is hardly been the case in the past. I think IBM will form a great example of it, right? And so I do think that this is far more disruptive than what we have witnessed in years past and I can't wait to get get in it and my part to lead us through it >>ricardo, great insight, totally agree. This is a time of open collaboration, an ecosystem you're seeing in the ecosystem and network effect where people are integrating together in this new connected distributed economy. Global economy, thank you for coming on the cube, appreciate your >>time. Thank you so much for having me. >>Okay, Ricardo for Relenza, Global managing director for IBM at Citigroup. This is the Cube coverage of IBM think 2021. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the >>cube >>with digital >>coverage of IBM >>Think 2021 >>brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cube coverage of IBM Think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube ricardo for lenses here with me is the global managing director for IBM at Citigroup recorded. Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You're the team leader for Citigroup Managing Director um, a lot going on in the world of finance, Fintech technology, scale transformation, all this is happening. Always leading edge indicator. Give us your perspective on the market right now on the, on that vertical and in general because um there's so much scale is so much machine learning, so much going on, so much competitive advantages. Give us an overview of the industry, how you see them. >>So john about the fortune of working essentially around the world of work in europe in asia in Australia, back here in north America. And I'll tell you what, there are some, some uh, dynamics are specific to a market. There are also a lot of common threads, right? You know, a lot of common threats, right? As you know, my industry, financial services in the middle of uh great disruption right from payments to a global wealth to understand exactly. Not to reposition yourself is a, is a startup. Oftentimes looking time to be dis intimidated by many in the context. I have found many financial institutions are very adept, a change in the way they operate, a lot more nimble than they have been in the past. And they found ways to incorporate a lot of techniques that some of the Frontex operate with. So they all have shark tanks, they all find a way to uh, progress investments that they get to a point of uh, failing fast, right, more are some more adept than others. But for the most part, I'd say that everyone in the market is looking to beef up their their core competences. >>And, you know, the financial, um, industry has never been shy of using technology ever. They've always poured it on. They always want to get more edge. Um, what's your, what is the edge now in the industry for, um, financial and, and in general, businesses who were learning how to be agile? What's the edge? >>I think the edges really finding a way to be ambidextrous, right? Because in many respects, you do want to hold on to a franchise to what got you to a level of success. It's oftentimes it's in the case of my client is in good stead for more than 100 years, Right? So you don't want to let that go. But you also want to grow a new set of skills and grow competences that they need to take into the future. I have found that in many respects that many of my clients are remind me of what lugers and one said maybe 2025 years ago. Our former Ceo and chairman who said the last thing that IBM needs is a strategy. In fact, I think that many of our financial institutions that don't need a strategy, they just need the competences to innovate and executed scale and it's a lot easier said than that >>card. I want to get your perspective before we move on to some of the initiatives and work at city, which is probably compelling. But I want to get your expert opinion on a question that comes up all the time with customers and that are going post pandemic and looking at growth strategies. The idea of the unit economics of their business models tend to change with more data, more digital acceleration. Is there any observations that you could share for leaders who are looking to get that financial mindset or of of how the business is changing with whether it's KPI S or business models. Because at the end of the day, the financial upside of what we're seeing with digital is pretty significant. The economics are seem to be a real game changer on these, these conversations are about acceleration, but also the results are business results are money. >>Absolutely john as a matter of fact, that I'd argue that while it's true that the common theme so many and that several of our financial institutions are growing a skill in, in a, in a uh, approaching problems in a different fashion is also true that there's been a lot of redistribution of wealth across financial enterprises, right? So it's not lost on all of us. Right. The security look at market globalization of the financial institutions, on the work. They've really done a little place with the clear winners in several sectors, right? In Asia and europe, as well as here in North America. So what I argue is that while I think we're all tired of hearing the data is the new oil, right? It's also true that we need to find a way to finally harness the power of it. Right? And that's what I think IBM is more more adept at, right, argue that many of the common threads that we've seen across the financial institutions and back to the to the measures of success you would indicate in a minute ago, really around cloud, right around data and around digital transformation. Right? So our approach to cloud, for instance, is unique, right? While there are a number of uh very competent hyper Steelers, we've taken a different approach to it, right? We've taken our approach is more than after other highly specialized regulated workloads, right. Organ after the layer that allows you to port application seamlessly based on regulation costs and competition across multiple platforms. Right? So this hybrid concept has only been at the center of our strategy and that's the one that mama is is delivering our clients. Greatest father tell you what. I think one client told me once after hearing our hybrid story that while there were many cloud providers, there wasn't anyone that could help them quite as much as I B. M. Dealing with their legacy and in all candor, I think it's fair to say that legacy is here to say well past our investment horizon. Right? So that level of self awareness, I think ended up believing forming our collaborations for years to come. >>You know, I'm a big believer and I've reported this and certainly talked to Arvin when um he was on the cube about this microservices, containers, kubernetes, these kinds of new technologies really allow for legacy to integrate well into the new modern era of computer, what's going on at city and IBM tell us take us through some things that you're working on, some of the exciting projects that you're driving. >>So the disclaimer is that I started this well three months ago, so I'll try to do my my team proud here. But what I'll tell you is that the teams you talk about are alive and well, that's sitting right. So on the cloudfront we are doing exactly that we're focusing on, on on being uh cities partner on the heavy cloud deployment, acknowledging that uh fabric odyssey is an ecosystem of participants, right. Technology that IBM uh dominance in on prem computing will go through a very different face going forward. We not only a comfortable with it, but we're trying to accelerate its deployment. Right? So you mentioned communities, you mentioned containers, hence a redhead acquisition, right? Which has been central to the collaboration that we've uh we've established the city and we look at the growth. I'm also gonna go back to data and I will tell you that uh you know, uh, cities in the midst of a transformation journey of their own right. It's also the middle of a regulatory challenge. That's second to none. Right. With with the zero cc. Findings that then led to a final remediation plan that the bank has put in place over the past two months. With that in mind, we are looking to help the bank make a make a good crisis make the most of the crisis right. And so helping for instance, Mark Sabino, the head of innovation City, find ways to infuse Ai into their internal audit practices doing that. It's just smart business, the results in much better outcome at a lower cost and it's something that can scale because it's all seen before. Oftentimes our solutions have lacked the ability to scale to really keep up with them in >>ricardo. The relationship between IBM and City has been long standing. I believe. I read somewhere you're celebrating 100 year partnership. Is that true? If so. I mean it's a huge milestone. What's the take us through the history and where this is going as a partnership? >>I've heard as a matter of fact is that as I first came on board that in fact our companies have been added for more than 100 years and someone showed me an actual document 100 years old, there was proof positive of that. So I'll tell you, I know that our firms would be added again 100 years from now. I will probably not be here to toast to it, but I'm certain they will continue to collaborate and for the strong is this is my responsibility or do whatever I can to help you continue to grow. We're only going to focus on three things I spoke about every cloud, but you also want to be the partner is the bank transforms its operations right and infuse in it. Our AI and process information, skills and capabilities. I think if we do that we'll continue to collaborate and will continue to have our partnership fully rests on two pillars that is always independent, which are really innovation and trust >>great commentary. Great. An account that you're leading probably great team behind how many people are on this team must be pretty massive. And I'd love to see that document by the way. Was it a memo? Was that type written was a handwritten? You know, it was a P. O. Okay. >>It was an Akron document that I get your copy. >>Uh so historic. I love those history. I love the IBM culture longstanding relationships. Final question for you. You've been in the industry for a while, you've seen many waves of innovation. If you're talking to a customer, your friend or colleague and they had asked you ricardo, why is this wave so big and so important? What would you tell them? >>John I think at the heart of this transformation, the evolution, the way they should call it is not the introduction of new products, the international processes, but entire no value chains that are being established by players that in many cases need need each other to coexist. This is hardly ever been the case in the past. I think IBM will form a great example of it, right? And so I do think that this is far more disruptive than what we have witnessed in years past and I can't wait to get get in it and my part to lead us through it >>ricardo. Great insight, totally agree. This is a time of open collaboration and ecosystem you're seeing in the ecosystem and network effect where people are integrating together in this new connected distributed economy. Global economy, thank you for coming on the cube, appreciate your time. >>Thank you so much for having me. >>Okay ricardo for Relenza, Global Managing Director for IBM at Citigroup, This is the Cube coverage of IBM think 2021 I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm

>>from >>around the globe. It's the cube with digital >>Coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM Think 2021 The virtual edition. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cubes continuous coverage of think 21. And right now we're gonna talk about banking in the post isolation economy. I'm very pleased to welcome our next guest. Look at wag lee is the general manager, Global banking financial markets at IBM and john Degnan is the global ceo and vice president and distinguished engineer for banking and financial services. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. >>Thank you. Yeah >>that's my pleasure. Look at this current economic upheaval. It's quite a bit different from the last one, isn't it? I mean liquidity doesn't seem to be a problem for most pecs these days. I mean if anything they're releasing loan loss reserves that they didn't need. What's from your perspective, what's the state of banking today and hopefully as we exit this pandemic soon. >>So so dave, I think, like you say, it's, you know, it's a it's a state and a picture that in a significantly different from what people were expecting. And I think some way, in some ways you're seeing the benefits of a number of the regulations that were put into into place after the, you know, the financial crisis last time around, right? And therefore this time, you know, a health crisis did not become a financial crisis, because I think the banks were in better shape. And also, you know, governments clearly have put worldwide a lot of liquidity into the, into the system. I think if you look at it though, maybe two or three things ready to call out firstly, there's a there's a massive regional variation. So if you look at the U. S. Banking industry, it's extremely buoyant and I'll come back to that in a minute in the way in which is performing, you know, the banks that are starting to report their first quarter results are going to show profitability. That's you know significantly ahead of where they were last year and probably some of the some of their best performance for quite a long time. If you go into europe, it's a completely different picture. I think the banks are extremely challenged out there and I think you're going to see a much bleaker outlook in terms of what those banks report and as far as Asia pacific is concerned again, you know because they they have come out of the pandemic much faster than consumer businesses back into growth. Again, I think they're showing some pretty buoyant performance as far as as far as banking performance is concerned. I think the piece that's particularly interesting and I think him as a bit of a surprise to most is what we've seen in the U. S. Right. And in the US what's actually happened is uh the investment banking side of banking businesses has been doing better than they've ever done before. There's been the most unbelievable amount of acquisition activity. You've seen a lot of what's going on with this facts that's driving deal raised, you know, deal based fee income for the banks. The volatility in the marketplace is meaning that trading income is much much higher than it's ever been. And therefore the banks are very much seeing a profitability on that investment banking side. That was way ahead of what I think they were. They were expecting consumer businesses definitely down. If you look at the credit card business, it's down. If you look at, you know, lending activity that's going down going out is substantially less than where it was before. There's hardly any lending growth because the economy clearly is flat at this moment in time. But again, the good news that, and I think this is a worldwide which are not just in us, the good news here is that because of the liquidity and and some of the special measures the government put out there, there has not been the level of bankruptcies that people were expecting, right. And therefore most of the provisioning that the banks did um in expectation of non performing loans has been, I think, a much more, much greater than what they're going to need, which is why you're starting to see provisions being released as well, which are kind of flattering, flattering the income, flattering the engine. I think going forward that you're going to see a different picture >>is the re thank you for the clarification on the regional divergence, is that and you're right on, I mean, european central banks are not the same, the same position uh to to affect liquidity. But is that nuances that variation across the globe? Is that a is that a blind spot? Is that a is that a concern or the other other greater concerns? You know, inflation and and and the the pace of the return to the economy? What are your thoughts on that? >>So, I think, I think the concern, um, you know, as far as the european marketplace is concerned is um you know, whether whether the performance that and particularly, I don't think the level of provisions in there was quite a generous, as we saw in other parts of the world, and therefore, you know, is the issue around non performing loans in in europe, going to hold the european uh european banks back? And are they going to, you know, therefore, constrain the amount of lending that they put into the economy and that then, um, you know, reduces the level of economic growth that we see in europe. Right? I think, I think that is certainly that is certainly a concern. Um I would be surprised and I've been looking at, you know, forecasts that have been put forward by various people around the world around inflation. I would be surprised if inflation starts to become a genuine problem in the, in the kind of short to medium term, I think in the industry that are going to be two or three other things that are probably going to be more, you know, going to be more issues. Right. I think the first one which is becoming top of mind for chief executives, is this whole area around operational resiliency. So, you know, regulators universally are making very very sure that banks do not have a technical debt or a complexity of legacy systems issue. They are and you know, the U. K. Has taken the lead on this and they are going so far as even requiring non executive directors to be liable if banks are found to not have the right policies in place. This is now being followed by other regulators around the world. Right. So so that is very much drop in mind at this moment in time. So I think discretionary investment is going to be put you know, towards solving that particular problem. I think that's that's one issue. I think the other issue is what the pandemic has shown is that and and and this was very evident to me and I mean I spent the last three years out in Singapore where you know, banks have become very digital businesses. Right? When I came into the U. S. In my current role, it was somewhat surprising to me as to where the U. S. Market place was in terms of digitization of banking. But if you look in the last 12 months, you know, I think more has been achieved in terms of banks becoming digital businesses and they've probably done in the last two or three years. Right. And that the real acceleration of that digitization which is going to continue to happen. But the downside of that has been that the threat to the banking industry from essentially fintech and big tex has exactly, it's really accelerated. Right, Right. Just to give you an example, Babel is the second largest financial services institutions in the US. Right. So that's become a real problem I think with the banking industry is going to have to deal with >>and I want to come back to that. But now let's bring john into the conversation. Let's talk about the tech stack. Look, it was talking about whether it was resiliency going digital, We certainly saw over the pandemic, remote work, huge, huge volumes of things like TPP and and and and and mortgages and with dropping rates, etcetera. So john, how is the tech stack Been altered in the past 14 months? >>Great question. Dave. And it's top of mind for almost every single financial services firm, regardless of the sector within the overall industry, every single business has been taking stock of how they handled the pandemic and the economic conditions thereafter and all of the business needs that were driven by the pandemic. In so many situations, firms were unable to service their clients or we're not competitive in serving their clients. And as a result they've had to do very deep uh architectural transformation and digital transformation around their core platforms. Their systems of analytics and their systems different end systems of engagement In terms of the core processing systems that many of these institutions, some in many cases there are 50 years old And with any 50 year old application platform there are inherent limitations. There's an in flex itty inflexibility. There's an inability to innovate for the future. There's a speed of delivery issue. In other words, it can be very hard to accelerate the delivery of new capabilities onto an aging platform. And so in every single case um institutions are looking to hybrid cloud and public cloud technology and pre packaged a ai and prepackaged solutions from an I. S. V. Ecosystem of software vendor ecosystem to say. As long as we can crack open many of these old monolithic cause and surround them with new digitalization, new user experience that spans every channel and automation from the front to back of every interaction. That's where most institutions are prioritizing. >>Banks aren't going to migrate, they're gonna they're gonna build an abstraction layer. I want to come back to the disruption is so interesting. The coin base I. P. O. Last month see Tesla and microstrategy. They're putting Bitcoin on their balance sheets. Jamie diamonds. Traditional banks are playing a smaller role in the financial system because of the new fin text. Look at, you mentioned Paypal, the striped as Robin Hood, you get the Silicon Valley giants have this dual disrupt disruption agenda. Apple amazon even walmart facebook. The question is, are traditional banks going to lose control of the payment systems? >>Yeah. I mean I think to a large extent that is that has already happened, right? Because I think if you look at, you know, if you look at the experience in ASia, right? And you look at particularly organizations like and financial, you know, in India, you look at organizations like A T. M. You know, very substantial chance, particularly on the consumer payments side has actually moved away from the banks. And I think you're starting to see that in the west as well, right? With organizations like, you know, cloud, No, that's coming out with this, you know, you know, buying out a later type of schemes. You've got great. Um, and then so you've got paper and as you said, strike, uh and and others as well, but it's not just, you know, in the payment side. Right. I think, I think what's starting to happen is that there are very core part of the banking business. You know, especially things like lending for instance, where again, you are getting a number of these Frontex and big, big tech companies entering the marketplace. And and I think the threat for the banks is this is not going to be small chunks of market share that you're going to actually lose. Right? It's it's actually, it could actually be a Kodak moment. Let me give you an example. Uh, you know, you will have just seen that grab is going to be acquired by one of these facts for about $40 billion. I mean, this organization started like the Uber in Singapore. It very rapidly got into both the payment site. Right? So it actually went to all of these moment pop shops and then offered q are based um, 12 code based payment capabilities to these very small retailers, they were charging about half or a third or world Mastercard or Visa were charging to run those payment rails. They took market share overnight. You look at the Remittance business, right? They went into the Remittance business. They set up these wallets in 28 countries around the Asean region. They took huge chunks of business completely away from DBS, which is the local bank out there from Western Union and all of these, all of these others. So, so I think it's a real threat. I think Jamie Dimon is saying what the banking industry has said always right, which is the reason we're losing is because the playing field is not even, this is not about playing fields. Been even write, all of these businesses have been subject to exactly the same regulation that the banks are subject to. Regulations in Singapore and India are more onerous than maybe in other parts of the world. This is about the banking business, recognizing that this is a threat and exactly as john was saying, you've got to get to delivering the customer experience that consumers are wanting at the level of cost that they're prepared to pay. And you're not going to do that by purely sorting out the channels and having a cool app on somebody's smartphone, Right? If that's not funny reported by arcade processes and legacy systems when I, you know, like, like today, you know, you make a payment, your payment does not clear for five days, right? Whereas in Singapore, I make a payment. The payment is instantaneously clear, right? That's where the banking system is going to have to get to. In order to get to that. You need to water the whole stack. And the really good news is that many examples where this has been done very successfully by incumbent banks. You don't have to set up a digital bank on the site to do it. And incumbent bank can do it and it can do it in a sensible period of time at a sensible level of investment. A lot of IBM s business across our consulting as well as our technology stack is very much trying to do that with our clients. So I am personally very bullish about what the industry >>yeah, taking friction out of the system, sometimes with a case of crypto taking the middle person out of the system. But I think you guys are savvy, you understand that, you know, you yeah, Jamie Diamond a couple years ago said he'd fire anybody doing crypto Janet Yellen and says, I don't really get a Warren Buffett, but I think it's technology people we look at and say, okay, wait a minute. This is an interesting Petri dish. There's, there's a fundamental technology here that has massive funding that is going to inform, you know, the future. And I think, you know, big bags are gonna lean in some of them and others, others won't john give you the last word here >>for sure, they're leaning in. Uh so to just to to think about uh something that lick it said a moment ago, the reason these startups were able to innovate fast was because they didn't have the legacy, They didn't have the spaghetti lying around. They were able to be relentlessly laser focused on building new, using the app ecosystem going straight to public and hybrid cloud and not worrying about everything that had been built for the last 50 years or so. The benefit for existing institutions, the incumbents is that they can use all of the same techniques and tools and hybrid cloud accelerators in terms And we're not just thinking about uh retail banking here. Your question around the industry that disruption from Bitcoin Blockchain technologies, new ways of processing securities. It is playing out in every single securities processing and capital markets organization right now. I'm working with several organizations right now exactly on how to build custody systems to take advantage of these non fungible digital assets. It's a hard, hard topic around which there's an incredible appetite to invest. An incredible appetite to innovate. And we know that the center of all these technologies are going to be cloud forward cloud ready. Ai infused data infused technologies >>Guys, I want to have you back. I wish I had more time. I want to talk about SPAC. So I want to talk about N. F. T. S. I want to talk about technology behind all this. You really great conversation. I really appreciate your time. I'm sorry. We got to go. >>Thank you. Thanks very much indeed for having us. It was a real pleasure. >>Really. Pleasure was mine. Thank you for watching everybody's day. Volonte for IBM think 2021. You're watching the Cube. Mhm.