>>from around the globe. >>It's >>the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage of reinvent 2020. I'm your host, John for year here for three weeks with a cube virtual. This year we're not in person. We're doing remote because of the pandemic. A great guest for credit Ghira CEO at I t a unit Banco in Brazil, Great customer of Amazon. Really a good reference point to this transformation story that Andy Jassy has been talking about on stage Ricardo. Great to have you on remotely. Thanks for coming on from Brazil. >>Thank you. Thanks for having me >>love to get down there, land the beach for a while. Just relax. After all the virtual tension from reinvent all the coverage, it's been wild. Anyway, thanks for coming on. I want to get into a CEO. You know, one of the things that Andy Jassy was really leaning forward this year on was the story of you gotta be on the cloud to have agility and the digital transformation which has been talked about for years. People process technology. We've heard that this year. More than ever, it's been quite the acceleration. You're either on the right side of history or not here as a business. Can you share your story of your transformation with Amazon? >>Sure, John. Eso this story months back Thio Actually, a decade ago when we started discussing our digital transformation, Right, eso when we see we are bank, that is almost 100 years old, 96 years old. And we are We're a big one we have on in Brazil 56 million customers. So it's a big company. Uh, and we have pretty much all the businesses over Universal Bank, including insurance here in Brazil. Banks also have insurance on all the rest. So from corporate banking to retail, from credit cards to investments, all sort of products and, uh, we started in technology Eyes early is in the seventies. So 1973 to be exactly when we started our current account system in the mainframes, right? So you can imagine that we have invested a lot in technology over the last almost 50 years, and it's always very well known here in the country for for the use of technology. So we have been pioneers in online transfer In the eighties, we have been pioneers using A T. M's and Internet banking and so on. Uh, but what happened until 2010 is that we were pretty much putting up applications, one top off the other. So we are offering products and services assed fast as we could, looking at the customer, trying to differentiate ourselves from competition. But definitely we were trying to move AST fast as we could, but we were not taking the right care off the platform. In the sense that today we see a lot of transformation in technology happening all the time, right? There's new stuff coming out all the time. We're seeing, hearing reinvent the amount of things that AWS have lounged. So all the time we're seeing new stuff, which is good for the business. So So the speed off this transformation is only getting faster and faster. So in order, Thio be to use all of those features to be able to leverage on new technology. Your platform has to be flexible. You have to be able to adopt those new technologies without losing moment off, offering your products and services, right? So, uh, again a decade ago. We started discussing these and we said We have to invest in technology in a different ways, not only producing solutions in financial services, but definitely we have to take care of the platform and understand how we should evolve the platform in order to you again. Better offer products and services to our customers, which is by by the end of the day. It's why we exist. So so So we started this story and we said Okay, so there's there's three things mainly that we have to take care in order. Thio, go into this journey. First of all, it's about people. We have to have a new mindset, a new culture, Ah, mindset where we have where we empower people in decisions. We have people thinking about the customer all the time and being aggressive on building solutions for them and using technology for building those solutions. Right. So we need more sort of entrepreneur type of people on people who really want to differentiate themselves and provide better services to the customer. In the second pillar, I would say the methodology has to change right. You have to have an agile methodology agile approach, as opposed to a traditional waterfall approach with silos internally in the organization that allows you to be faster as well and to adapt to customer needs faster on and third of all, which is the main subject here. In our conversation, you have to have a flexible platform, as I will explain on Duh. So we decided to pretty much rewrite our application in an architectural where we can be flexible. So pretty much what we have a sort of a monolith where we write cold. We have ridden code in a sequence building huge applications, right, and those huge applications are bottom acts, and they are very hard to maintain and to evolve. What we're doing is in a simple way. Building Micro services were breaking up those applications so we can adapt faster to whatever we see that our customers need or there's any business opportunity. In that sense, Cloud is the perfect platform to host those services, right, because we have again we're able to have the Bob's methodology. You are able to have service reliable engineering aside, reliable engineering were able to have all kinds of things and services that will help us on this journey to be more flexible and faster, right? So that Z that's why we have chosen to go to the cloud. In that sense, we've looked for a partner that waas reliable that waas a leader in the market that was able thio keep up with all the technology that is coming out in the market and offer innovation in the level that we need. And and that's that's the reason why we partner up with AWS for for the next 10 years. So, uh, you happy? Are >>you happy with Amazon? Just while I got you there? Are you happy with their with their response to you and there they're in, uh, interfacing with you guys. Are you happy with them? >>Yes. Yes, John, we have started working with AWS more intensely back in 2018 when our central bank bank allowed us to go to the public cloud. So we started working with them and we learned a lot. Of course, we were very young and immature at the time. In the knowledge of the technology eso We learned a lot in this two years and a half and we have built nice stuff together we have a very important court systems running on W s already on. They have been a good apartment. What they like to say is that our cultures match. We are both customer centric. Sui are both concerned with the success off the partnership. Ah, long term partnership doesn't work. If you're not concerned with the relationship, right, you've got to make sure that both parts will profit from this. Right? So, uh, I think we had we have had a good match, and in terms of technology, we are We are very happy. We have all the infrastructure and services that we need. >>Yeah, when you're building a bridge to the future together, your relationships matter. I would agree. And I think that's a differentiator I wanna just touch upon you mentioned you guys were pioneers going back and the way you tell your story. I was growing up in the seventies and kind of cut my teeth in the eighties and computer science. And remember those days it was very cool. Time went from mainframe client server, but there's a point where you become bloated with the monolithic. You got you stuck with all this. We called spaghetti code, right? It's all over the place, right? So, uh, in all intertwined, then you have that moment of truth. That's something that Andy Jassy was saying on stage. I thought was interesting. And it was almost like a business school lesson of Hey, leaders, you got to get to the truth. When you guys saw the cloud, what was the mindset? Because it sounds like you guys are a pioneering culture. You like Thio be innovative. What was the moment? Take me through the mindset of Hey, we better get busy building or we're gonna get busy dying. What's the What's the take me through that mindset >>at a very good question, John. So we literally started to suffer with our own speed to be really transparent, right? We were seeing the market starting to speed up all these new start ups and tech companies in other industries. And we're seeing all the industry's moving faster and everyone building solutions that were way better to the customer than the solutions that we were seeing. I don't know five or 10 years before, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about any industry, not only finance, right, So So we said. OK, looks like the financial industry is going to go through the same the same path and we're trying. We're trying to make things Mawr, mawr, I would say towards the customer and we're trying to understand customer needs better. And we actually did that when we have implemented a design thinking methodology back in 2010. Ah, Big one at the bank and And we came up with a lot of solutions building along with the customer and we were piling up backlogs, right? We're saying Okay, there's lots of stuff that we have to dio were lost in our spaghetti. That's pretty much it right, s So that's when we saw Okay, that's That's the end of Jesse moment that you describe Stop. We have to have a better platform. We have to reorganize ourselves. Otherwise we're gonna get lost in ourselves. There is no there's no way we can grow and invest Mawr because we're going to get stuck in this forget anyway. So So we structured a very robust program off platform modernization where we have we have invested over the last few years mainly, and we're going to keep on investing. Looking ahead where we try to build solutions while modernizing our platform. So there's no from from our perspective or a platform is big enough to just say that we cannot just rebuild the platform. Let's let's put a teen aside and let's rebuild the back that would take on all 789 years. I don't know how long and then we would be legacy again whenever finished. So what we do is we break up the our our reasoning. So we say Let's take each business as a very small component off the bank and let's build the technological components that support that business and let's extract those components from the monolith from from the Legacy. And and that's a strategy. That's the technology strategy that we have today. So we have empowered the business for them to own the platform. So they understand today that the platform is not a problem of technology, but it's actually the business. And by owning the platform, they understand that the monolithic doesn't allow them to be as fast as they want as the customer want, so it's very straightforward for them to understand that they have to break up the batter form They have to prioritize building micro services in the cloud so all the ideas and needs that they can identify will be much easier to implement. After that, >>you put it on them. They have to own the up they have to own. The business model of the platform is there. If the keys to the kingdom or in their hands, you're enabling that. That's a great stretch. And I love the MicroStrategy's breakout picking things out rather than trying to boil the ocean over over seven years. That's a big mistake people make and they end up having a legacy. Outdated platform that's ready for no one. Right? Ricardo? That's a masterclass right there in strategy. Thank you very much for sharing that insight into your bank And congratulations and all your innovations continues. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >>Thank you so much. >>Okay, I'm John. For a host of the Cube, virtual were remote this year. Got great content. Stay with us on the Cube Channel here on AWS. Reinvent. Thanks for watching