>> Announcer: It's theCUBE! Covering the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference 2020 brought to you by Vertica. >> Hi, everybody. Welcome back. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of the Vertica Virtual Big Data Conference. It was, of course, going to be in Boston at the Encore Hotel. Win big with big data with the new casino but obviously Coronavirus has changed all that. Our hearts go out and we are empathy to those people who are struggling. We are going to continue our wall-to-wall coverage of this conference and we're here with Larry Lancaster who's the founder and CTO of Zebrium. Larry, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> You're welcome. So first question, why did you start Zebrium? >> You know, I've been dealing with machine data a long time. So for those of you who don't know what that is, if you can imagine servers or whatever goes on in a data center or in a SAS shop. There's data coming out of those servers, out of those applications and basically, you can build a lot of cool stuff on that. So there's a lot of metrics that come out and there's a lot of log files that come. And so, I've built this... Basically spent my career building that sort of thing. So tools on top of that or products on top of that. The problem is that since at least log files are completely unstructured, it's always doing the same thing over and over again, which is going in and understanding the data and extracting the data and all that stuff. It's very time consuming. If you've done it like five times you don't want to do it again. So really, my idea was at this point with machine learning where it's at there's got to be a better way. So Zebrium was founded on the notion that we can just do all that automatically. We can take a pile of machine data, we can turn it into a database, and we can build stuff on top of that. And so the company is really all about bringing that value to the market. >> That's cool. I want to get in to that, just better understand who you're disrupting and understand that opportunity better. But before I do, tell us a little bit about your background. You got kind of an interesting background. Lot of tech jobs. Give us some color there. >> Yeah, so I started in the Valley I guess 20 years ago and when my son was born I left grad school. I was in grad school over at Berkeley, Biophysics. And I realized I needed to go get a job so I ended up starting in software and I've been there ever since. I mean, I spent a lot of time at, I guess I cut my teeth at Nedap, which was a storage company. And then I co-founded a business called Glassbeam, which was kind of an ETL database company. And then after that I ended up at Nimble Storage. Another company, EMC, ended up buying the Glassbeam so I went over there and then after Nimble though, which where I build the InfoSight platform. That's where I kind of, after that I was able to step back and take a year and a half and just go into my basement, actually, this is my kind of workspace here, and come up with the technology and actually build it so that I could go raise money and get a team together to build Zebrium. So that's really my career in a nutshell. >> And you've got Hello Kitty over your right shoulder, which is kind of cool >> That's right. >> And then up to the left you got your monitor, right? >> Well, I had it. It's over here, yeah. >> But it was great! Pull it out, pull it out, let me see it. So, okay, so you got that. So what do you do? You just sit there and code all night or what? >> Yeah, that's right. So Hello Kitty's over here. I have a daughter and she setup my workspace here on this side with Hello Kitty and so on. And over on this side, I've got my recliner where I basically lay it all the way back and then I pivot this thing down over my face and put my keyboard on my lap and I can just sit there for like 20 hours. It's great. Completely comfortable. >> That's cool. All right, better put that monitor back or our guys will yell at me. But so, obviously, we're talking to somebody with serious coding chops and I'll also add that the Nimble InfoSight, I think it was one of the best pick ups that HP, HPE, has had in a while. And the thing that interested me about that, Larry, is the ability that the company was able to take that InfoSight and poured it very quickly across its product lines. So that says to me it was a modern, architecture, I'm sure API, microservices, and all those cool buzz words, but the proof is in their ability to bring that IP to other parts of the portfolio. So, well done. >> Yeah, well thanks. Appreciate that. I mean, they've got a fantastic team there. And the other thing that helps is when you have the notion that you don't just build on top of the data, you extract the data, you structure it, you put that in a database, we used Vertica there for that, and then you build on top of that. Taking the time to build that layer is what lets you build a scalable platform. >> Yeah, so, why Vertica? I mean, Vertica's been around for awhile. You remember you had the you had the old RDBMS, Oracles, Db2s, SQL Server, and then the database was kind of a boring market. And then, all of a sudden, you had all of these MPP companies came out, a spade of them. They all got acquired, including Vertica. And they've all sort of disappeared and morphed into different brands and Micro Focus has preserved the Vertica brand. But it seems like Vertica has been able to survive the transitions. Why Vertica? What was it about that platform that was unique and interested you? >> Well, I mean, so they're the first fund to build, what I would call a real column store that's kind of market capable, right? So there was the C-Store project at Berkeley, which Stonebreaker was involved in. And then that became sort of the seed from which Vertica was spawned. So you had this idea of, let's lay things out in a columnar way. And when I say columnar, I don't just mean that the data for every column is in a different set of files. What I mean by that is it takes full advantage of things like run length and coding, and L file and coding, and block--impression, and so you end up with these massive orders of magnitude savings in terms of the data that's being pulled off of storage as well as as it's moving through the pipeline internally in Vertica's query processing. So why am I saying all this? Because it's fundamentally, it was a fundamentally disruptive technology. I think column stores are ubiquitous now in analytics. And I think you could name maybe a couple of projects which are mostly open source who do something like Vertica does but name me another one that's actually capable of serving an enterprise as a relational database. I still think Vertica is unique in being that one. >> Well, it's interesting because you're a startup. And so a lot of startups would say, okay, we're going with a born-in-the-cloud database. Now Vertica touts that, well look, we've embraced cloud. You know, we have, we run in the cloud, we run on PRAM, all different optionality. And you hear a lot of vendors say that, but a lot of times they're just taking their stack and stuffing it into the cloud. But, so why didn't you go with a cloud-native database and is Vertica able to, I mean, obviously, that's why you chose it, but I'm interested from a technologist standpoint as to why you, again, made that choice given all these other choices around there. >> Right, I mean, again, I'm not, so... As I explained a column store, which I think is the appropriate definition, I'm not aware of another cloud-native-- >> Hm, okay. >> I'm aware of other cloud-native transactional databases, I'm not aware of one that has the analytics form it and I've tried some of them. So it was not like I didn't look. What I was actually impressed with and I think what let me move forward using Vertica in our stack is the fact that Eon really is built from the ground up to be cloud-native. And so we've been using Eon almost ever since we started the work that we're doing. So I've been really happy with the performance and with reliability of Eon. >> It's interesting. I've been saying for years that Vertica's a diamond in the rough and it's previous owner didn't know what to do with it because it got distracted and now Micro Focus seems to really see the value and is obviously putting some investments in there. >> Yeah >> Tell me more about your business. Who are you disrupting? Are you kind of disrupting the do-it-yourself? Or is there sort of a big whale out there that you're going to go after? Add some color to that. >> Yeah, so our broader market is monitoring software, that's kind of the high-level category. So you have a lot of people in that market right now. Some of them are entrenched in large players, like Datadog would be a great example. Some of them are smaller upstarts. It's a pretty, it's a pretty saturated market. But what's happened over the last, I'd say two years, is that there's been sort of a push towards what's called observability in terms of at least how some of the products are architected, like Honeycomb, and how some of them are messaged. Most of them are messaged these days. And what that really means is there's been sort of an understanding that's developed that that MTTR is really what people need to focus on to keep their customers happy. If you're a SAS company, MTTR is going to be your bread and butter. And it's still measured in hours and days. And the biggest reason for that is because of what's called unknown unknowns. Because of complexity. Now a days, things are, applications are ten times as complex as they used to be. And what you end up with is a situation where if something is new, if it's a known issue with a known symptom and a known root cause, then you can setup a automation for it. But the ones that really cost a lot of time in terms of service disruption are unknown unknowns. And now you got to go dig into this massive mass of data. So observability is about making tools to help you do that, but it's still going to take you hours. And so our contention is, you need to automate the eyeball. The bottleneck is now the eyeball. And so you have to get away from this notion of a person's going to be able to do it infinitely more efficient and recognize that you need automated help. When you get an alert agent, it shouldn't be that, "Hey, something weird's happening. Now go dig in." It should be, "Here's a root cause and a symptom." And that should be proposed to you by a system that actually does the observing. That actually does the watching. And that's what Zebrium does. >> Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, you're right. The last thing you want is just another alert and it say, "Go figure something out because there's a problem." So how does it work, Larry? In terms of what you built there. Can you take us inside the covers? >> Yeah, sure. So there's really, right now there's two kinds of data that we're ingesting. There's metrics and there's log files. Metrics, there's actually sort of a framework that's really popular in DevOp circles especially but it's becoming popular everywhere, which is called Prometheus. And it's a way of exporting metrics so that scrapers can collect them. And so if you go look at a typical stack, you'll find that most of the open source components and many of the closed source components are going to have exporters that export all their stacks to Prometheus. So by supporting that stack we can bring in all of those metrics. And then there's also the log files. And so you've got host log files in a containerized environment, you've got container logs, and you've got application-specific logs, perhaps living on a host mount. And you want to pull all those back and you want to be able to associate this log that I've collected here is associated with the same container on the same host that this metric is associated with. But now what? So once you've got that, you've got a pile of unstructured logs. So what we do is we take a look at those logs and we say, let's structure those into tables, right? So where I used to have a log message, if I look in my log file and I see it says something like, X happened five times, right? Well, that event types going to occur again and it'll say, X happened six times or X happened three times. So if I see that as a human being, I can say, "Oh clearly, that's the same thing." And what's interesting here is the times that X, that X happened, and that this number read... I may want to know when the numbers happened as a time series, the values of that column. And so you can imagine it as a table. So now I have table for that event type and every time it happens, I get a row. And then I have a column with that number in it. And so now I can do any kind of analytics I want almost instantly across my... If I have all my event types structured that way, every thing changes. You can do real anomaly detection and incident detection on top of that data. So that's really how we go about doing it. How we go about being able to do autonomous monitoring in a way that's effective. >> How do you handle doing that for, like the Spoke app? Do you have to, does somebody have to build a connector to those apps? How do you handle that? >> Yeah, that's a really good question. So you're right. So if I go and install a typical log manager, there'll be connectors for different apps and usually what that means is pulling in the stuff on the left, if you were to be looking at that log line, and it will be things like a time stamp, or a severity, or a function name, or various other things. And so the connector will know how to pull those apart and then the stuff to the right will be considered the message and that'll get indexed for search. And so our approach is we actually go in with machine learning and we structure that whole thing. So there's a table. And it's going to have a column called severity, and timestamp, and function name. And then it's going to have columns that correspond to the parameters that are in that event. And it'll have a name associated with the constant parts of that event. And so you end up with a situation where you've structured all of it automatically so we don't need collectors. It'll work just as well on your home-grown app that has no collectors or no parsers to find or anything. It'll work immediately just as well as it would work on anything else. And that's important, because you can't be asking people for connectors to their own applications. It just, it becomes now they've go to stop what they're doing and go write code for you, for your platform and they have to maintain it. It's just untenable. So you can be up and running with our service in three minutes. It'll just be monitoring those for you. >> That's awesome! I mean, that is really a breakthrough innovation. So, nice. Love to see that hittin' the market. Who do you sell to? Both types of companies and what role within the company? >> Well, definitely there's two main sort of pushes that we've seen, or I should say pulls. One is from DevOps folks, SRE folks. So these are people who are tasked with monitoring an environment, basically. And then you've got people who are in engineering and they have a staging environment. And what they actually find valuable is... Because when we find an incident in a staging environment, yeah, half the time it's because they're tearing everything up and it's not release ready, whatever's in stage. That's fine, they know that. But the other half the time it's new bugs, it's issues and they're finding issues. So it's kind of diverged. You have engineering users and they don't have titles like QA, they're Dev engineers or Dev managers that are really interested. And then you've got DevOps and SRE people there (mumbles). >> And how do I consume your product? Is the SAS... I sign up and you say within three minutes I'm up and running. I'm paying by the drink. >> Well, (laughs) right. So there's a couple ways. So, right. So the easiest way is if you use Kubernetes. So Kubernetes is what's called a container orchestrator. So these days, you know Docker and containers and all that, so now there's container orchestrators have become, I wouldn't say ubiquitous but they're very popular now. So it's kind of on that inflection curve. I'm not exactly sure the penetration but I'm going to say 30-40% probably of shops that were interested are using container orchestrators. So if you're using Kubernetes, basically you can install our Kubernetes chart, which basically means copying and pasting a URL and so on into your little admin panel there. And then it'll just start collecting all the logs and metrics and then you just login on the website. And the way you do that is just go to our website and it'll show you how to sign up for the service and you'll get your little API key and link to the chart and you're off and running. You don't have to do anything else. You can add rules, you can add stuff, but you don't have to. You shouldn't have to, right? You should never have to do any more work. >> That's great. So it's a SAS capability and I just pay for... How do you price it? >> Oh, right. So it's priced on volume, data volume. I don't want to go too much into it because I'm not the pricing guy. But what I'll say is that it's, as far as I know it's as cheap or cheaper than any other log manager or metrics product. It's in that same neighborhood as the very low priced ones. Because right now, we're not trying to optimize for take. We're trying to make a healthy margin and get the value of autonomous monitoring out there. Right now, that's our priority. >> And it's running in the cloud, is that right? AWB West-- >> Yeah, that right. Oh, I should've also pointed out that you can have a free account if it's less than some number of gigabytes a day we're not going to charge. Yeah, so we run in AWS. We have a multi-tenant instance in AWS. And we have a Vertica Eon cluster behind that. And it's been working out really well. >> And on your freemium, you have used the Vertica Community Edition? Because they don't charge you for that, right? So is that how you do it or... >> No, no. We're, no, no. So, I don't want to go into that because I'm not the bizdev guy. But what I'll say is that if you're doing something that winds up being OEM-ish, you can work out the particulars with Vertica. It's not like you're going to just go pay retail and they won't let you distinguish between tests, and prod, and paid, and all that. They'll work with you. Just call 'em up. >> Yeah, and that's why I brought it up because Vertica, they have a community edition, which is not neutered. It runs Eon, it's just there's limits on clusters and storage >> There's limits. >> But it's still fully functional though. >> So to your point, we want it multi-tenant. So it's big just because it's multi-tenant. We have hundred of users on that (audio cuts out). >> And then, what's your partnership with Vertica like? Can we close on that and just describe that a little bit? >> What's it like. I mean, it's pleasant. >> Yeah, I mean (mumbles). >> You know what, so the important thing... Here's what's important. What's important is that I don't have to worry about that layer of our stack. When it comes to being able to get the performance I need, being able to get the economy of scale that I need, being able to get the absolute scale that I need, I've not been disappointed ever with Vertica. And frankly, being able to have acid guarantees and everything else, like a normal mature database that can join lots of tables and still be fast, that's also necessary at scale. And so I feel like it was definitely the right choice to start with. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I remember in the early days of big data a lot of people said, "Who's going to need these acid properties and all this complexity of databases." And of course, acid properties and SQL became the killer features and functions of these databases. >> Who didn't see that one coming, right? >> Yeah, right. And then, so you guys have done a big seed round. You've raised a little over $6 million dollars and you got the product market fit down. You're ready to rock, right? >> Yeah, that's right. So we're doing a launch probably, well, when this airs it'll probably be the day before this airs. Basically, yeah. We've got people... Like literally in the last, I'd say, six to eight weeks, It's just been this sort of pique of interest. All of a sudden, everyone kind of gets what we're doing, realizes they need it, and we've got a solution that seems to meet expectations. So it's like... It's been an amazing... Let me just say this, it's been an amazing start to the year. I mean, at the same time, it's been really difficult for us but more difficult for some other people that haven't been able to go to work over the last couple of weeks and so on. But it's been a good start to the year, at least for our business. So... >> Well, Larry, congratulations on getting the company off the ground and thank you so much for coming on theCUBE and being part of the Virtual Vertica Big Data Conference. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. Keep it right there. We're covering wall-to-wall Virtual Vertica BDC. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Denver, CO, it's theCUBE, covering Commvault GO 2019, brought to you by Commvault. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Commvault GO '19 from Colorado this year. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, and we are excited to welcome a couple of new guests to theCUBE. One of them brand new to Commvault. We have Mercer Rowe, VP of Global Channels and Alliances. Mercer, welcome to Commvault and TheCUBE. >> Thanks so much. >> Lisa: And we've got Carmen Sorice III, pinky out, GTM Chief of Staff for Commvault. You're the veteran here. You've been there for a year. >> A whole year, yes. >> Lisa: Exactly. Guys, so much excitement in the last, you know, nine months since Sanjay Mirchandani took over. Analysts saying, hey Commvault, you've got to upgrade your sales. You've got to upgrade your marketing. You've got to shift gears and expand the market share, and we're seeing a lot of movement in all three of those directions. The channel is really critical for Commvault, Mercer. It's responsible for a significant portion of revenue. You guys have made some strategic changes there with respect to channels and alliances. First of all, before we get into that, you're brand new, brand, brand new to Commvault. What attracted you to this company that's 20 years old that, as Sanjay was telling us, it's like the new Commvault. >> So, if I look back at my career in the last 10 years or so, I've been in IT for about 20 years, for the last 10 years or so, I've been a part of launching cloud businesses for a number of some upcoming and some new vendors, such as VMware, IBM, SoftBank and others. And a lot of that, in that process, what I've been working on is helping existing customers to move their workloads into the Cloud. We know that the market is evolving to a hybrid Cloud type of deployment model. I mean we can see that across the board with the way our customers are behaving, with the way that the Cloud vendors are behaving. But that's been a challenge because of the technology matching, right? Figuring out how to essentially put the same technology stack in the Cloud as you do on-prem to be able to move those apps over. I really started to look for companies that could bridge that gap and it could really operate in a hybrid Cloud scenario. Commvault is absolutely positioned perfectly for that in my mind, and so it's such an opportunity as we shift from our kind of act one as a great data protection company to a true hybrid Cloud data platform or data plane. >> Yeah, Carmen, maybe give us a little bit of your insight as to some of those change in roles as Mercer was just saying. Cloud is having a huge impact. You know, we've watched, you know, for years the shifting role of the traditional VAR or SI or the like, so bring us a little bit of insight as to what, today, is important to your go-to-market. >> Yeah, so what's important to our partners, especially the VARS is continuing to be relevant with our customers, right? Change is the only constant, and it's, the rate of change is just accelerating. So partners are looking for vendor partners like us to help them be relevant, to come out with the solutions that are going to be more relevant, even tomorrow. And, from a Commvault perspective, if you think about everything we've done from a data backup and a data management perspective, we've been the best in the industry, as we've just seen with Gartner and Forrester. All right, so we're proud of that. But what our partners were looking for is, where are we taking this next? Where's the innovation going to come from? So when you weave in things like Metallic that now gives our partners a consumption option. So if they have customers that want to buy software as a service, they now have that option. And then when you add software-defined storage, it takes us in to a completely different area, and you had asked Stewart about the Cloud, when you think of Cloud native applications and you think of containerization, that's changing the way backup data and primary storage data is being managed and the lines are blurring. Now with Hedvig software-defined storage, we have an opportunity to come out with integrated offers to help our partners be even more successful. >> So from a go-to-market perspective, in the last year, there's been a lot transformation, right? Not just in terms of leadership changes, but this big focus on ensuring that, as customers' environments change in this hybrid multicloud world that they are living in whether it's by design or its by acquisition or different types of growth, right? Talk to us a little bit about how Commvault foundationally is set up to really make some big shifts and big bets in new routes to market. >> Yeah, I can take that from where we were a year ago 'til now and then feel free to expand. So when you look at, we've always been a partner business, a partner friendly business. A significant percentage of our revenue, like north of 90% goes through our partners. What our partners were asking for is, hey, you guys are partner friendly, but we need you to be partner driven. So, when you come up with solutions, make sure they're channel ready, make sure they're partner ready, make sure we have our eyes on the market so that we're not just trying to sell software to our partners. We need to better understand their go-to-market models, how can we help them grow their business by offering a different variety, a variety of different services. So I think the evolution you've seen is a year ago the company made significant investments on becoming partner-first. So we've invested in channel leadership, partner leadership, not only at the corporate level but also in the field, and since Sanjay came on board, as you referenced, in February, that change is just continuing. So we're making our next level of investment in channel executives, in executives period, who have context about what channel is. And when you've lived in the channel, you've dealt with channel conflict, you bring that to the table, you bring that experience to the table. So I think you're seeing an evolution of us in our next phase of investments, helping our partners be successful, and becoming partner-first, and we've done a lot of new things with our programs that I can get in to. Financial incentives, rebates, making it easier on our partner portal to interface with us. And we're going to continue to do that, so that's we're not only just the right product choice, we're the right financial choice for our partners going forward. >> And I think, to add to that, if you look at our Metallic launch, obviously the reason we work with partners is in service of our customers. Right, that's the whole reason we partner, it's 'cause we want to great a better value proposition for our customers. And when we launched that product, a little tid bit, the company did a lot of research. Went out and talked to non, not-current Commvault customers, so potentially new greenfield customers and consistently got the feedback that they wanted to buy softwares and service applications that like that through a partner, because they could have a conversation about their entire IT environment. So it's really exciting to be in a spot where we are not only partner-first, partner-led but we're in a position where we know that this is the way our customers want to interact with us. That's number one. Number two is as we start to make some of these transitions into SaaS as we move into adjacencies like we're doing with Hedvig, it's so important to have our partners be the tip of the spear to help our customers through that journey. You know, innovation is great, but innovation also creates complexity. That's where partners help us move our customers through that journey and be successful. >> You know, we were talking to one of your launch partners earlier today and they were very excited about Metallic. On the same hide they did recognize that there is a significant change as to how they have to engage, you know, what part of the organization. You know, it's a good thing they have a Microsoft practice that this plugs into for the O365. So, bring us a little bit as to how you're helping the channel transform. >> Oh, absolutely. So, as you can see, a lot of the partners, you can see a lot of them that are here today, have moved from being pure, say in the solution of outer space, just to use as an example have moved from pure solution providers to also having MSP offerings, or other kind of services offerings, because they realize that customers want the flexibility of consumption economics while also, you know, being able to work with their trusted partner. So whether it's them, whether it's service providers who we want to drive into more of a, as a service model, and obviously we're planning to release all of this technology to our service providers to allow them to offer Commvault-based or Commvault-powered services in the market, or whether it's our great alliance partners. Companies like Nedap and Hitachi, where we have OEM relationships or other kind of very deep, collaborative relationships in the market. Adding some of these features and functions and capabilities as we move, as we help our customers to move into the Cloud, as we help them to give them more options for these multicloud or hybrid deployment models. This opens up additional apertures, additional opportunities for services, for wholistic end-to-end solutions from these partners that actually increase their ability to be relevant with the customers but also the share wallet. >> I want to get your perspective, Mercer, on differentiation, because partners, your partners work with a lot of your competitors. We know that there's a lot of coopetition, right, in technology but what is it about some of the things that Commvault is putting in place or some ideas that you have to really differentiate how you're enabling partners, whether we're talking about a VAR or a Disty or all the way up to a global services systems integrator that can deliver massive enterprise scale. >> Yeah, I can start with that if you're okay. So, it's all about listening to partners, right? Listening to what they need and what they're asking you for. Because many times a vendor becomes vendor-arrogant, right? And you're not listening to the partners. So our partners have been clear. They said we want a predictable financial model with Commvault. What translates to a program that's a full year program that gives them financial incentives so they don't have to guess what we're going to do in any given month or any given quarter with some kind of SPIF. So we've delivered on that. They've asked, number two, they said, they've said to me, and you're going to be hearing this, is you've always had great products, please, that has to continue. That's like a ticket for entry. And we've seen that we continue to lead in that space. And then I mentioned earlier about innovation. They want to know that we're going to take them into the future. So those three things are really critical for our partners. And then the last thing they ask for, which is basically a foundation across that, is field engagement. We need to be more tightly engaged with your sellers, so that we go in on joint sales calls. That we're bringing each other opportunities, and I think with the new sales leadership we have, Riccardo Di Blasio, our new CRO, our boss knows full well how to grow businesses with partners and through partners and it's by engaging in the field. And that's why we're going to have more people in the field, so that we can engage with partners and create opportunities together. So those are kind of the four foundational elements that we see. >> Mercer, I was wondering if I could get your viewpoint just in general about the channel. There was a lot of fear for a number of years about, you know, the Cloud, coming in and that readjustment. How do you think it's going? What's the general, you know, feel of the channel today, and how their interaction is with, you know, that ever-changing interaction with the big public clouds. >> You know, it's a great question, and I remember when we were first launching the cloud business as VMware. I used to go to, I built our channel model but I would introduce myself in the partner meetings with, Hey, I'm from VMware Cloud. We're here to kill your business. (laughter) Because there was a fear. And that fear, I think, in a certain way, has kind of dissipated as the market has realized as partners and mostly from the customers have realized that there is not a one size fits all strategy. The Cloud is not the solution to all IT needs. It is certainly an important part of most customer's strategy, in fact, I don't think that there are many customers that don't have Cloud as a part of their overall IT strategy, however, it's not the entire environment, and it certainly doesn't solve all needs. So, from a general perspective, the savvy partners have embraced the Cloud, they've embraced services, and they've look at it as a wholistic part of how they do business with their end customers. 'Cause as we think about, you know, to the last question, as we think about partner profitability, I think about it in two main vectors. There's margin, field engagement, revenue, and so forth, which is very, you know, this is the financial element of working with a partner like Commvault to make money. And that's obviously a very important part and that's something we will continue to invest in. Programs, and so forth, to support our partners to be profitable working with Commvault. But the other is in the practices, in how they build services, in how they build end-to-end solutions. Which, another tidbit on Metallic that some people picked up on was that we've released the telemetry APIs. Meaning that partners who are working with Metallic can see exactly what their customers are using. How are they growing? Oh, they've all of a sudden backed up a new workload. Hey, maybe they have a new project. Maybe I should call them, so I'm not waiting until renewals. I'm not waiting until the sort of forcing events to have an opportunity to place a call into my customer and say, hey, I noticed you're doing something new. How can I help? >> That insight, and sorry Carmen, we were talking about that a little bit earlier, I think with maybe with Rob Kaloustian. That was really interesting, because it really it changes the word partner, right? It can't. Because if they're actually able to follow along and maybe even make some educated predictions or suggestions to the customer, then the customer feels like, okay, you're not only selling me this, you're actively helping me optimize my deployment, learn from it and plan for what's next. So that definition of partner changes for the better. >> And I think the whole SaaS model is like the next step beyond Cloud. So you were asking me about Cloud. Very briefly, the way I've seen it over the last probably seven to nine years is, I had billion dollar VARS tell me nine years ago, don't ever try to come in here and sell me a multi tenant cloud service, 'cause I'm selling hardware. That moved to, hey, you know what? We see the customers changing. I was with a service provider. Why don't you come help us? And then a couple of years later they said, you know what? We're kind of building our own service now, so we don't need your services anymore. So, in a few, you know, three to five years, they went from stay out, I'm never going to sell a multi tenant service to quickly, well maybe not so quickly, some not as quick as others, realize that they have to get there. I think SaaS is like the next step beyond that. >> Well in this business I think if that teaches anybody anything it's never say never. Right? >> That's right. >> Well guys, thank you so much for joining Stu and me, sharing with us how things are really transforming here, but also what you're doing for global alliances and channel to really catalyze Commvault's business. We appreciate it, and we say best of luck as you enter week three? >> Yes. >> Lisa: Or day three? >> Day three, day three. >> Lisa: Gentleman, thank you for your time. >> Great, thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watchin' theCUBE from Commvault GO '19. (fast tempo music)