>>Good morning friends. Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube Day four of our coverage of AWS. Reinvent continues. Lisa Martin here with Dave Valante. You >>Can tell it's day four. Yeah. >>You can tell, you >>Get punchy. >>Did you? Yes. Did you know that the Vegas rodeo is coming into town? I'm kind of bummed down, leaving tonight. >>Really? You rodeo >>Fan this weekend? No, but to see a bunch of cowboys in Vegas, >>I'd like to see the Raiders. I'd like to see the Raiders get tickets. >>Yeah. And the hockey team. Yeah. We have had an amazing event, Dave. The cubes. 10th year covering reinvent 11th. Reinvent >>Our 10th year here. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean we covered remotely in during Covid, but >>Yes, yes, yes. Awesome content. Anything jump out at you that we really, we, we love talking to aws, the ecosystem. We got a customer next. Anything jump out at you that's really a kind of a key takeaway? >>Big story. The majority of aws, you know, I mean people ask me what's different under a Adam than under Andy. And I'm like, really? It's the maturity of AWS is what's different, you know, ecosystem, connecting the dots, moving towards solutions, you know, that's, that's the big thing. And it's, you know, in a way it's kind of boring relative to other reinvents, which are like, oh wow, oh my god, they announced outposts. So you don't see anything like that. It's more taking the platform to the next level, which is a good >>Thing. The next level it is a good thing. Speaking of next level, we have a couple of next level guests from T-Mobile joining us. We're gonna be talking through their customers story, their business transformation with aws. Glenn Curing joins us, the director product and technology. And Nick Chris, senior manager, product and technology guys. Welcome. Great to have you on brand. You're on T-Mobile brand. I love it. >>Yeah, >>I mean we are always T-Mobile. >>I love it. So, so everyone knows T-Mobile Blend, you guys are in the digital commerce domain. Talk to us about what that is, what functions that delivers for T-Mobile. Yeah, >>So the digital commerce domain operates and runs a platform called the Digital commerce platform. What this essentially does, it's a set of APIs that are headless that power the shopping experiences. When you talk about shopping experiences at T-Mobile, a customer comes to either a T-Mobile website or goes to a store. And what they do is they start with the discovery process of a phone. They take it through the process, they decide to purchase the phone day at, at the phone to cart, and then eventually they decide to, you know, basically pull the trigger and, and buy the phone at, at which point they submit the order. So that whole experience, essentially from start to finish is powered by the digital commerce platform. Just this year we have processed well over three and a half million orders amounting to a billion and a half dollars worth of business for T-Mobile. >>Wow. Big outcomes. Nick, talk about the before stage, obviously the, the customer experience is absolutely critical because if, if it goes awry, people churn. We know that and nobody wants, you know, brand reputation is is at stake. Yep. Talk about some of the challenges before that you guys faced and how did you work with AWS and part its partner ecosystem to address those challenges? >>Sure. Yeah. So actually before I started working with Glen on the commerce domain, I was part of T-Mobile's cloud team. So we were the team that kind of brought in AWS and commerce platform was really the first tier one system to go a hundred percent cloud native. And so for us it was very much a learning experience and a journey to learn how to operate on the cloud and which was fundamentally different from how we were doing things in the old on-prem days. When >>You talk about headless APIs, you talk, I dunno if you saw Warren a Vogel's keynote this morning, but you're talking about loosely coupled, a loosely coupled system that you can evolve without ripping out the whole system or without bringing the whole system down. Can you explain that in a little bit more >>Detail? Absolutely. So the concept of headless API exactly opens up that possibility. What it allows us to do is to build and operator platform that runs sort of loosely coupled from the user experiences. So when you think about this from a simplistic standpoint, you have a set of APIs that are headless and you've got the website that connects to it, the retail store applications that connect to it, as well as the customer care applications that connect to it. And essentially what that does is it allows us to basically operate all these platforms without being sort of tightly coupled to >>Each other. Yeah, he was talking about this morning when, when AWS announced s3, you know, there was just a handful of services maybe at just two or three. I think now there's 200 and you know, it's never gone down, it's never been, you know, replaced essentially. And so, you know, the whole thing was it's an asynchronous system that's loosely coupled and then you create that illusion of synchronicity for the customer. >>Exactly. >>Which was, I thought, you know, really well described, but maybe you guys could talk about what the genesis was for this system. Take us kind of to the, from the before or after, you know, the classic as as was and the, and as is. Did you talk about that? >>Yeah, I can start and then hand it off to Nick for some more details. So we started this journey back in 2016 and at that point T-Mobile had seven or eight different commerce platforms. Obviously you can think about the complexity involved in running and operating platforms. We've all talked about T-Mobile being the uncarrier. It's a brand that we have basically popularized in the telco industry. We would come out with these massive uncarrier moves and every time that announcement was made, teams have to scramble because you've got seven systems, seven teams, every single system needs to be updated, right? So that's where we started when we kicked off this transformational journey over time, essentially we have brought it down to one platform that supports all these experiences and what that allows us to do is not only time to market gets reduced immensely, but it also allows us to basically reduce our operational cost. Cuz we don't have to have teams running seven, eight systems. It's just one system with one team that can focus on making it a world class, you know, platform. >>Yeah, I think one of the strategies that definitely paid off for us, cuz going all the way back to the beginning, our little platform was powering just a tiny little corner of the, of the webspace, right? But even in those days we approached it from we're gonna build functions in a way that is sort of agnostic to what the experience is gonna be. So over time as we would build a capability that one particular channel needed primary, we were still thinking about all the other channels that needed it. So now over a few years that investment pays off and you have basically the same capabilities working in the same way across all the channels. >>When did the journey start? >>2016. >>2016, yeah. It's been, it's been six years. >>What are some of the game changers in, in this business transformation that you would say these are some of the things that really ignited our transformation? >>Yeah, there's particularly one thing that we feel pretty proud about, which is the fact that we now operate what we call active active stacks. And what that means is you've got a single stack of the eCommerce platform start to finish that can run in an independent manner, but we can also start adding additional stacks that are basically loosely coupled from each other but can, but can run to support the business. What that basically enables is it allows us to run in active active mode, which itself is a big deal from a system uptime perspective. It really changes the game. It allows us to push releases without worrying about any kind of downtime. We've done canary releases, we are in the middle of retail season and we can introduce changes without worrying about it. And more importantly, I think what it has also allowed us to do is essentially practice disaster recovery while doing a release. Cuz that's exactly what we do is every time we do a release we are switching between these separate stacks and essentially are practicing our DR strategy. >>So you do this, it's, it's you separate across regions I presume? Yes. Is that right? Yes. This was really interesting conversation because as you well know in the on-prem world, you never tested that disaster recovery was too risky because you're afraid you're gonna take your whole business down and you're essentially saying that the testing is fundamental to the implementation. >>Absolutely. >>It, it is the thing that you do for every release. So you know, at least every week or so you are doing this and you know, in the old world, the active passive world on paper you had a bunch of capabilities and in in incidents that are even less than say a full disaster recovery scenario, you would end up making the choice not to use that capability because there was too much complexity or risk or problem. When we put this in place. Now if I, I tell people everything we do got easier after that. >>Is it a challenge for you or how do you deal with the challenge? Correct me if it's not a, a challenge that sometimes Amazon services are not available in both regions. I think for instance, the observability thing that they just announced this week is it's not cross region or maybe I'm getting that wrong, but there are services where, you know, you might not be able to do data sharing across region. How do you manage that? Or maybe there's different, you know, levels of certifications. How do you manage that discontinuity or is that not an issue for you? >>Yeah, I mean it, it is certainly a concern and so the stacks, like Glen said, they are largely decoupled and that what that means is practically every component and there's a lot of lot of components in there. I have redundancy from an availability zone point of view. But then where the real magic happens is when you come in as a user to the stack, we're gonna initially kind of lock you on one stack. And then the key thing that we do is we, we understand the difference between what, what we would call the critical data. So think of like your shopping carts and then contextual data that we can relatively easily reload if we need to. And so that critical data is constantly in an async fashion. So it's not interrupting your performance, being broadcast out to a place where we can recover it if we need to, if we need to send you to another stack and then we call that dehydration. And if you end up getting bumped to a new stack, we rehydrate you on that stack and reload that, that contextual data. So to make that whole thing happen, we rely on something we call the global cart store and that's basically powered by Dynamo. So Dynamo is highly, highly reliable and multi >>Reason. So, and, and presume you're doing some form of server list for the stateless stuff and, and maybe taking control of the run time for the stateful things you, are you leaning into to servers and lambda or Not yet cuz you want control over the, the, the EC two and the memory configs. What, what's, I mean, I know we're going inside the plumbing a little bit, but it's kind of fun. >>That's always fun. You >>Went Yeah, and, and it has been a journey. Back in 2016 when we started, we were all on EC twos and across, you know, over the last three or four years we have kind of gone through that journey where we went from easy two to, to containers and we are at some point we'll get to where we will be serverless, we've got a few functions running. But you know, in that journey, I think when you look at the full end of the spectrum, we are somewhere towards the, the process of sort of going from, you know, containers to, to serverless. >>Yeah. So today your team is setting up the containers, they're fencing 'em off, fencing off the app and doing all that sort of sort of semi heavy lifting. Yeah. How do you deal with the, you know, this is one of the things Lisa, you and I were talking about is the skill sets. We always talk about this. What's that? What's your team look like and what are the skill sets that you've got that you're deploying? >>Yeah, I mean, as you can imagine, it's a challenge and it's a, a highly specialized skill set that you need. And you talk about cloud, you know, I, I tell developers when we bring new folks in, in the old days, you could just be like really good at Java and study that for and be good at that for decades. But in the cloud world, you have to be wide in, in your breadth. And so you have to understand those 200 services, right? And so one of the things that really has helped us is we've had a partner. So UST Global is a digital services company and they've really kind of been on the journey up the same timeline that we were. And I had worked with them on the cloud team, you know, before I came to commerce. And when I came to, to the commerce team, we were really struggling, especially from that operational perspective. >>The, the team was just not adapting to that new cloud reality. They were used to the on-prem world, but we brought these folks in because not only were they really able to understand the stuff, but they had built a lot of the platforms that we were gonna be leveraging for commerce with us on the cloud team. So for example, we have built, T-Mobile operates our own customized Kubernetes platform. We've done some stuff for serverless development, C I C D, cloud security. And so not only did these folks have the right skill sets, but they knew how we were approaching it from a T-mobile cloud perspective. And so it's kind of kind of fun to see, you know, when they came on board with this journey with us, we were both, both companies were relatively new and, and learning. Now I look and, you know, I I think that they're like a, a platinum sponsor these days here of aws and so it's kind of cool to see how we've all grown together, >>A lot of evolution, a lot of maturation. Glen, I wanna know from you when we're almost out of time here, but tell me the what the digital commerce domain, you kind of talked about this in the beginning, but I wanna know what's the value in it for me as a customer? All of this under the hood plumbing? Yeah, the maturation, the transformation. How does it benefit mean? >>Great question. So as a customer, all they care about is coming into, going to the website, walking into a store, and without spending too much time completed that transaction and walkout, they don't care about what's under the hood, right? So this transformational journey from, you know, like I talked about, we started with easy twos back in the day. It was what we call the wild west in the, on a cloud native platform to where we have reached today. You know, the journey we have collectively traversed with the USD has allowed us to basically build a system that allows a customer to walk into a store and not spend a whole hour dealing with a sales rep that's trying to sell them things. They can walk in and out quickly, they go to the website, literally within a couple minutes they can complete the transaction and leave. That's what customers want. It is. And that has really sort of helped us when you think about T-Mobile and the fact that we are now poised to be a leader in the US in telco at this whole concept of systems that really empower the customers to quickly complete their transaction has been one of the key components of allowing us to kind of make that growth. Right. So >>Right. And a big driver of revenue. >>Exactly. >>I have one final question for each of you. We're making a Instagram reel, so think about if you had 30 seconds to describe T-Mobile as a technology company that sells phones or a technology company that delights people, what, what would you say if you had a billboard, what would it say about that? Glen, what do you think? >>So T-Mobile, from a technology company perspective, the, the whole purpose of setting up T-mobile's, you know, shopping experience is about bringing customers in, surprising and delighting them with the frictionless shopping experiences that basically allow them to come in and complete the transaction and move on with their lives. It's not about keeping them in the store for too long when they don't want to do it. And essentially the idea is to just basically surprise and delight our customers. >>Perfect. Nick, what would you say, what's your billboard about T-Mobile as a technology company that's delivering great services to its customers? >>Yeah, I think, you know, Glen really covered it well. What I would just add to that is I think the way that we are approaching it these days, really starting from that 2016 period is we like to say we don't think of ourselves as a telco company anymore. We think of ourselves as a technology company that happens to do telco among other things, right? And so we've approached this from a point of view of we're here to provide the best possible experience we can to our customers and we take it personally when, when we don't reach that high bar. And so what we've done in the last few years as a transformation is really given us the toolbox that we need to be able to meet that promise. >>Awesome. Guys, it's been a pleasure having you on the program, talking about the transformation of T-Mobile. Great to hear what you're doing with aws, the maturation, and we look forward to having you back on to see what's next. Thank you. >>Awesome. Thank you so much. >>All right, for our guests and Dave Ante, I'm Lisa Martin, you watching The Cube, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage.

(bright upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Pure Accelerate 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, please stay welcoming back one of our alumni Murli Thirumale is here, the VP & GM of the Cloud Native Business Unit at Pure Storage, Murli, welcome back. >> Lisa, it's great to be back at theCUBE, looking forward to discussion. >> Likewise, so it's been about six months or so since the Portworx acquisition by Pure Storage, give us a lay of the land, what's been going on? What are some of the successes, early wins, and some of the lessons that you've learned? >> Yeah, this is my third time being in Cloud, being a serial entrepreneur. So I've seen this movie before, and I have to say that this is really a lot of good anticipation followed by actually a lot of good stuff that has happened since, so it's been really a great ride so far. And when, let me start with the beginning, what the fundamental goal of the acquisition were, right? The couple of major goals, and then I can talk about how that integration is going. Really, I think from our viewpoint, from the Portworx viewpoint, the goal of the acquisition, from our view, was really to help turbocharge in our growth, we had really a very, very good product that was well accepted and established at customers, doing well as far as industry acceptance was concerned. And frankly, we had some great reference customers and some great installs expanding pretty well. Our issue was really how fast can we turbocharge that growth because as everybody knows, for a startup, the expensive part of an expansion is really on the go-to-market and sales side. And frankly, the timing for this was critical for us because the market had moved from the Kubernetes' market, has moved from sort of the innovator stage to the early majority stage. So from the Pure side, I think this made a lot of sense for them, because they have been looking for how they can expand their subscription models, how they can move to add more value from the array based business that there really have been a wonderful disruptor and to add more value up the stack, and that was the premise of the acquisition. One of the things that I paid a lot of attention to, as anybody does in acquisitions, is not just the strategy but really to understand if there was a culture fit between the teams, because a lot of the times acquisitions don't work because of the poor culture fit. So now let me kind of fast forward little bit and say, "Hey, what we know looking back in about six to eight months into it, how has it turning out so far?" And things have been just absolutely wonderful. Let me actually start with the culture fit, because that often is ignored and is one of the most important parts, right? The resonance in the culture between the two companies is just off the charts, right? It actually starts with what I would call a dramatic kind of customer first orientation, it's something we always had at Portworx. I always used to tell our customers with a startup you end up kind of, you buy the product, but you get the team, right? That's what happens with early stage startups, but Pure is sort of the same way, they are very focused on customer. So the customer focus is a very very useful thing that pulls us together. The second thing that's been really heartwarming to see has been really the focus on product excellence. Pure made it's dramatic entry into the market using Flash, and being the best Flash-based solution, and now they've expanded into many, many different areas. And Portworx also had a focus on product excellence, and so that has kind of moved the needle forward for both of us. And then I think the third thing is really a focus on the team winning, and not just an individual, right? And look, in these COVID times, this has been a tough year for everybody, I think it's, to some extent, even as we onboard new people, it's the culture of the team, the ability to bring new people onboard, and buy the culture, and make progress, all of that is really a function of how well the team is, 'we' is greater than 'me' type of a model, and I think that both these three values of customer first, high focus on product excellence, and the value in the team, including the resellers and the customers as part of the team, has really been the cornerstone, I think, of our success in the integration. >> That's outstanding because, like you said, this is not your first rodeo launching, coming out of stealth and launching and getting acquired, but doing so during one of the most challenging times in the last 100 years in our history while aligning cultures, I think that says a lot about the leadership on the Portworx side and the Pure side. >> I have to say, right? This is one of those amazing things, many people now that having been acquired can say this, really, most of the diligence, the transactions, all of that were done over Zoom, right? So, and then of course, everything since then is we're still in Zoom paradise. And so I think it really is a testament to the modern tools and stuff that we have that enable that. Now, let me talk a little bit about the content of what has happened, right? So strategically, I think the three areas that I think we've had huge synergy and seeing the benefits are first and foremost on the product side. A little later, I'd like to talk a little bit about some of the announcements we're making, but essentially, Pure had this outstanding core storage infrastructure product, well-known in the industry, very much Flash-oriented, part of the whole all Flash era now. And Portworx really came in with the idea of driving Kubernetes and Cloud Native workloads, which are really the majority of modern workloads. And what we found since then is that the integration of having really a more complete stack, which is really centered around what used to be an IT infrastructure of purchase, and what is in fact, for Kubernetes, a more DevOps oriented purchase. And that kind of a combination of being able to provide that combo in one package is something that we've been working very hard on in the last six months. And I'll mention some of the announcements, but we have a number of integrations with FlashArray and FlashBlade and other Pure products that we're able to highlight. So product integration for sure has been an area of some focus, but against a lot of progress. The second one is really customer synergy. I kind of described to our team when we got acquired, I said it's, for us, it's, being acquired by Pure is like strapping a rocket ship to ourselves as a small company, because we now have access to a huge customer footprint. Pure has over 8,000 customers, hugely amazingly high, almost unbelievable NPS score with customers, one of the best in the IT industry. And I think we are finding that with the deployment of containers becoming more ubiquitous, right? 80, 90% of customers in the enterprise are adopting Kubernetes and Containers. And therefore these 8,000 customers are a big huge target, they got a big target sign for both of us to be able to leverage. And so we've had a number of things that we're doing to address and use the Pure sales team to get access to them. The Pure channel of course is also part of that, Pure is 100% channel organization, which is great. So I think the synergy on the customer side with being able to have a solution that works for infrastructure and for DevOps has been a big area. In this day and age, Kubernetes is an area, for many of your listeners who are very, very familiar with Kubernetes, customers struggle, not just with day zero, but day one, day two, day three, right? It's how do you put it in production. And support, and integrating, and the use of Kubernetes and containers, putting that stack together is a big area. So support is a big area of pain for customers, and it's an area that, again, for a Portworx viewpoint, now we've expanded our footprint with a great support organization that we can bring to bear 24 by seven around the globe. Portworx is running on a lot of mission critical applications in big industries like finance and retail, and these types of things, really, support is a big area. And then the last thing I will just say is the use cases are usually synergistic, right? And we'll talk a little bit more about use cases as we go along here, but really there's legacy apps, right? In an interesting way, there's 80% of, IT spending is still on legacy apps, if you will, in that stack. However, 80% of all the new applications are being deployed on this modern app stack, right? >> Right. >> With all these open-source type of products and technologies. And most of that stack, most of the modern app stack is containerized. The 80, 85% of those applications really are where customers have chosen containers and Kubernetes as the as the mechanism to deliver those apps. And therefore Pure products like FlashBlade were very, very focused with fast recovery for these kind of modern apps, which are the stack of AI, and personalization, and all the modern digital apps. And I think those things can align well with the Portworx offering. So really around the areas of culture, customers, product synergy, support, and finally use cases, are all kind of been areas of huge progress for us. >> It also seems to me that the Portworx acquisition gives Pure a foray, a new buying center with respect to DevOps, talk to me a little bit about that as an opportunity for Pure. >> Yeah, the modern world is one where the enterprise itself has segmented into whole lot of new areas of spending and infrastructure ownership, right? And in the old days it used to be the network, storage, compute, and apps, sort of the old model of the world. And of course the app model has moved on, and then certainly there's a lot of different ways, web apps, the three tier apps, and the web apps, and so on. But the infrastructure world has morphed really into a bunch of other sub-segments, and some of it is still traditional hardware, but then even that is being cloudified, right? Because a lot of companies like Pure have taken their hardware array offerings and are offering that as a cloud-like offering where you can purchase it as a service, and in fact, Pure is offering a set of solutions called Evergreen that allow you to not even, you're just under subscription, you get your hardware refresh bundled in, very, very innovative. So you have now new buying centers coming in, in addition to the old traditional IT, there is sort of this whole, what used to be in the old ways called middleware, now has kind of morphed into this DevSecOps set of folks, right? Which is DevOps it's ITOps, and even security is a big part of that, the CISO Organization has that kind of segment. And so these buying centers often have new budgets, right? It turns out that, for example, to contrast, the Portworx budget really comes from entirely different budget, right? Our top two budget sources are usually CIO initiatives, they're not from the traditional storage budget, it comes from things like move to cloud or business transformation. And those set of folks, that set of customers, is really born in a different era, so to speak. You know, Lisa, they come, and I come from the old world, so I would say that I'm kind of more of an oldie, hopefully a Goldie, but an oldie. These folks are born in the post-DevOps, post-cloud, post-open-source world, right? They are used to brand new tools, get-ops, the way that everything's run on the cloud, it's on demand. So what we bring to Pure is really the ability to take their initiatives, which were around infrastructure, and cloudifying infrastructure to now adding two layers on top of that, right? So what Portworx adds to Pure is the access to the new automation layer of middleware. Kubernetes is nothing but really an automation of model for containers and for infrastructure now. And then the third layer is on top of us, is what I would call SaaS, the SaaSified layer, and as a service layer. And so we bring the opportunity to get those SaaS-like budgets, the DevOps budgets, and the DevOps and the SaaS kind of buyers, and together the business has very different models to it. In addition to not just a different technologies, the buying behavior is different, it's based on a consumption model, it's a subscription business. So it really is a change for new budgets, new buyers, and new financial models, which is a subscription model, which as you know, is valued much more highly by Wall Street nowadays compared to say some of the older hardware models. >> Well, Murli, when we talk about storage, we talk about data or the modern data experience. The more and more data that's being produced, the more value potentially there is for organizations, I think we saw, we learned several lessons in the last year, and one of them is that being able to glean insights from data in real-time or near real-time is, for many businesses, no longer a nice to have, it's really table stakes, it was for survival of getting through COVID, it is now in terms of identification of new business models, but it elevates the data conversation up to the C-suite, the board going, "Is our data protected? Is it secure? Can we access it?" And, "How do we deliver a modern data experience to our customers and to our internal employees?" So with that modern data experience, and maybe the elevation about conversation lengths, talk to me about some of the things that you're announcing at Accelerate with respect to Portworx. >> Yeah, so there are two sets of announcements. To be honest actually, this is a pretty exciting time for us, we're in theCUBE Cone time and the Accelerate time. And so let me kind of draw a circle around both those sets of announcements, if you will, right? So let's start perhaps with just the sets of things that we are announcing at Accelerate, right? This is kind of the first things that are coming up right now. And I'll tell you, there are some very, very exciting things that we're doing. So the majority of the announcements are centered around a release that we have called 2.8, so Portworx says, "We've been in the market now for well over five years with the product that really has been well deployed in very large global 2K enterprises." So the three or four major announcements, one of them is what I was talking about earlier, the integration of true Kubernetes applications running on Pure Storage. So we have a Cloud Native, a Native implementation of Portworx running on FlashArray and FlashBlade, where essentially when users now provision a container volume to Portworx, the storage volumes are magically created on FlashArray and FlashBlade, right? It's the idea of, without having to interface, so a DevOps engineer can deploy storage as code by provisioning volumes using Kubernetes without having to go issue a trouble ticket or a service ticket for a PureArray. And Portworx essentially access a layer between Kubernetes and the PureArray, and we allow configuration of volumes on the storage volumes of the PureArray directly. So essentially now on FlashArray, these volumes now receive the full suite of Portworx Storage Management features, including Kubernetes DR, backup, security, auto scaling, and migration. So that is a first version of this integration, right? The second one, it's, I am, is a personal favorite of mine, it's very, very exciting, right? When we came into Pure, we discovered that Pure already had this software solution called Pure as a service, it was essentially a Pure1 service that allowed for continuous call home, and log and diagnostic information, really an awesome window for customers to be able to see what their array utilization is like, complete observability, end-to-end on capacity, what's coming up, and allowed for proactive addressing of outages, or issues, or being able to kind of see it before it happen. The good news now is Portworx is integrated with Pure1, and so now customers have a unified observability stack for their Kubernetes applications using Portworx and FlashArray and FlashBlade in the Pure1 portal. So we are in the Pure1 portal now really providing end-to-end troubleshooting of issues and deployment, so very, very exciting, something that I think is a major step forward, right? >> Absolutely, well that single pane of glass is critical for management, so many companies waste a lot of time and resources managing disparate disconnected systems. And again, the last year has taught us so many businesses, there wasn't time, because there's going to be somebody right behind you that's going to be faster and more nimble, and has that single pane of glass unified view to be able to make better decisions. Last question, really, before we wrap here. >> Yeah. >> I can hear your momentum, I can feel your momentum through Zoom here. Talk to me about what's next, 'cause I know that when the acquisition happened about, we said six months or so ago, you said, "This is a small step in the Portworx journey." So what's ahead? >> Lisa, great question. I can state 10 things, but let me kind of step up a little bit at the 10,000 foot level, right? In one sense, I think no company gets to declare victory in this ongoing battle and we're just getting started. But if I had to kind of say, "What are some of the major teams that we have been part of and have been able to make happen in addition to take advantage of?" Pure obviously took advantage of the Flash wave, and they moved to all Flash, that's been a major disruptor with Pure being the lead. For Portworx, it has been really the move to containers and data management in an automated form, right? Kubernetes has become sort of not just a container orchestrator looking North, but looking southbound, is orchestrating infrastructure, we are in the throws of that revolution. But if you think about it, the other thing that's happening is all of this is in the service of, if you're a CIO, you're in the service of lines of businesses asking for a way to run their applications in a multicloud way, run their applications faster. And that is really the, as a service revolution, and it feels a little silly to almost talk about it as a service in that it's this late in the Cloud era, but the reality is that's just beginning, right? As a service revolution dramatically changed the IaaS business, the infrastructure business. But if you look at it, data services as a, data as a service is something that is what our customers are doing, so our customers are taking Pure hardware, Portworx software, and then they are building them into a platform as a service, things like databases as a service. And what we are doing, you will see some announcements from us in the second half of this year, terribly exciting, I just can't wait for it, where we're going to be actually moving forward to allow our customers to more quickly get to data services at the push of a button, so to speak, right? So- >> Excellent. >> The idea of database as a service to offer messaging as a service, search as a service, streaming as a service, and then finally some ML kind of AI as a service, these five categories of data services are what you should be expecting to see from Portworx and Pure going forward in the next half. >> Big potential there to really kick the door wide open on the total adjustable market. Well, Murli, it's been great to have you on the program, I can't wait to have you on next 'cause I know that there's so much more, like I said, I can feel your momentum through our virtual experience here. Thank you so much for joining us and giving us the lay of the land of what's been happening with the Portworx acquisition and all of the momentum and excitement that is about to come, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Lisa. Cheers to a great reduced COVID second half of the year. >> Oh, cheers to that. >> Yeah cheers, thanks. >> From Murli Thirumale, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE's coverage of Pure Accelerate. (bright upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube covering space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly hello everyone welcome to the space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly where the intersection of space and security are coming together i'm john furrier your host with thecube here in california i want to welcome our featured guest lieutenant general john f thompson with the united states space force approach to cyber security that's the topic of this session and of course he's the commander of the space and missile system center in los angeles air force base also heading up space force general thank you for coming on really appreciate you kicking this off welcome to the symposium hey so uh thank you very much john for that very kind introduction also uh very much thank you to cal poly uh for this opportunity to speak to this audience today also a special shout out to one of the organizers uh dustin brun for all of his work uh helping uh get us uh to this point uh ladies and gentlemen as uh as uh john mentioned uh i'm jt thompson uh i lead the 6 000 men and women of the united states space forces space and missile system center which is headquartered here at los angeles air force base in el segundo if you're not quite sure where that's at it's about a mile and a half from lax this is our main operating location but we do have a number of other operating locations around the country with about 500 people at kirtland air force base in albuquerque new mexico uh and about another 500 people on the front range of the rockies uh between colorado springs and uh and denver plus a smattering of other much smaller operating locations nationwide uh we're responsible for uh acquiring developing and sustaining the united states space force's critical space assets that includes the satellites in the space layer and also on the ground layer our ground segments to operate those satellites and we also are in charge of procuring launch services for the u.s space force and a number of our critical mission partners across the uh department of defense and the intelligence community um just as a couple of examples of some of the things we do if you're unfamiliar with our work we developed and currently sustained the 31 satellite gps constellation that satellite constellation while originally intended to help with global navigation those gps signals have provided trillions of dollars in unanticipated value to the global economy uh over the past three decades i mean gps is everywhere i think everybody realizes that agriculture banking the stock market the airline industry uh separate and distinct navigation systems it's really pervasive across both the capabilities for our department of defense and capabilities for our economy and and individuals billions of individuals across our country and the planet some of the other work we do for instance in the communications sector uh secure communications satellites that we design and build that link america's sons and daughters serving in the military around the world and really enable real-time support and comms for our deployed forces and those of our allies we also acquire uh infrared missile warning satellites uh that monitor the planet for missile launches and provide advanced warning uh to the u.s homeland and to our allies uh in case some of those missile launches are uh nefarious um on a note that's probably a lot closer to home maybe a lot closer to home than many of us want to think about here in the state of california in 2018 smc jumped through a bunch of red tape and bureaucracy uh to partner with the u.s forest service during the two of the largest wildfires in the state's history the camp and woolsey fires in northern california as those fires spread out of control we created processes on the fly to share data from our missile warning satellites those are satellites that are systems that are purpose built to see heat sources from thousands of miles above the planet and we collaborated with the us forest service so that firefighters on the ground uh could track those fires more in real time and better forecast fires and where they were spreading thereby saving lives and and property by identifying hot spots and flare-ups for firefighters that data that we were able to working with our contractors pass to the u.s forest service and authorities here in california was passed in less than an hour as it was collected to get it into the hands of the emergency responders the first responders as quickly as possible and doing that in an hour greatly surpassed what was available from some of the other assets in the airborne and ground-based fire spotters it was really instrumental in fighting those fires and stopping their spread we've continued uh that involvement in recent years using multiple systems to support firefighters across the western u.s this fall as they battled numerous wildfires that unfortunately continue working together with the u.s forest service and with other partners uh we like to make uh we like to think that we made a difference here but there's still a lot more work to go and i think that we should always be asking ourselves uh what else can space data be used for and how can we more rapidly get that space data to uh stakeholders so that they can use it for for purposes of good if you will how else can we protect our nation how else can we protect our friends and allies um i think a major component of the of the discussion that we will have throughout this conference is that the space landscape has changed rapidly and continues to change rapidly um just over the past few years uh john and i were talking before we went live here and 80 nations now have uh space programs 80 nearly 80 space faring nations on the planet um if you just look at one mission area that uh the department of defense is interested in and that's small launch there are currently over a hundred different small launch companies uh within the u.s industrial base vying for commercial dod and civil uh payload capabilities uh mostly to low earth orbit it's it's just truly a remarkable time if you factor in those things like artificial intelligence and machine learning um where we're revolutionary revolutionizing really uh the ways that we generate process and use data i mean it's really remarkable in 2016 so if you think about this four years ago uh nasa estimated that there were 28 terabytes of information transiting their space network each day and that was four years ago um uh obviously we've got a lot of desire to work with a lot of the people in the audience of this congress or in this conference uh we need to work with big thinkers like many of you to answer questions on how best we apply data analytics to extract value and meaning from that data we need new generations of thinkers to help apply cutting edge edge theories of data mining cyber behaviorism and internet of things 2.0 it's just truly a remarkable time uh to be in the space business and the cyber aspects of the states of the space business are truly truly daunting and important to uh to all of us um integrating cyber security into our space systems both commercial and government is a mandate um it's no longer just a nice to have as the us space force and department of the air force leadership has said many times over the past couple of years space is becoming congested and contested and that contested aspect means that we've got to focus on cyber security uh in the same way that the banking industry and cyber commerce focus on uh cyber security day in and day out the value of the data and services provided is really directly tied to the integrity and availability of that data and services from the space layer from the ground control segments associated with it and this value is not just military it's also economic and it's not just american it's also a value for the entire world particularly particularly our allies as we all depend upon space and space systems your neighbors and friends here in california that are employed at the space and missile system center uh work with network defenders we work with our commercial contractors and our systems developers um our international allies and partners to try and build as secure and resilient systems as we can from the ground up that keep the global commons of space free and open for exploration and for commerce um as john and i were talking earlier before we came online there's an aspect of cyber security for space systems especially for some of our legacy systems that's more how do we bolt this on because we fielded those space systems a number of years ago and the the challenges of cyber security in the space domain have grown so we have a part that we have to worry about bolting it on but then we have to worry about building it in as we as we field new systems and build in a flexibility that that realizes that the cyber threat or the cyber security landscape will evolve over time it's not just going to be stagnant there will always be new vulnerabilities and new threat vectors that we always have to look at look uh as secretary barrett who is our secretary of the air force likes to say most americans use space before they have their first cup of coffee in the morning the american way of life really depends on space and as part of the united states space force we work with defense leaders our congress joint and international military teammates and industry to ensure american leadership in space i really thank you for this opportunity to address the audience today john and thanks so much to cal poly for letting me be one of the speakers at this event i really look forward to this for uh several months and so with that i look forward to your questions as we kind of move along here general thank you very much for the awesome uh introductory statement uh for the folks watching on the stream brigadier general carthan is going to be in the chat answering any questions feel free to chat away he's the vice commander of space and missile systems center he'll be available um a couple comments from your keynote before i get to my questions because it just jumped in my head you mentioned the benefits of say space but the fires in california we're living that here that's really real time that's a benefit you also mentioned the ability for more people launching payloads into space and i only imagine moore's law smaller faster cheaper applies to rockets too so i'm imagining you have the benefits of space and you have now more potential objects flying out sanctioned and maybe unsanctioned so you know is it going to be more rules around that i mean this is an interesting question because it's exciting space force but for all the good there is potentially bad out there yeah so i i john i think the uh i think the basics of your question is as space becomes more congested and contested is there a need for more international norms of how satellites fly in space what kind of basic features satellites have to perhaps deorbit themselves what kind of basic protections does do all satellites should all satellites be afforded as part of a peaceful global commons of space i think those are all fantastic questions and i know that u.s and many uh allied policy makers are looking very very hard at those kinds of questions in terms of what are the norms of behavior and how we uh you know how how we field and field is the military term but you know how we uh populate uh using civil or uh commercial terms uh that space layer at different altitudes uh low earth orbit mid mid-earth orbit geosynchronous earth orbit different kinds of orbits uh what the kind of mission areas we accomplish from space that's all things that need to be definitely taken into account as uh as the place gets a little bit not a little bit as the place gets increasingly more popular day in and day out well i'm super excited for space force i know that a new generation of young folks are really interested in it's an emerging changing great space the focus here at this conference is space and cyber security intersection i'd like to get your thoughts on the approach that space force is taking to cyber security and how it impacts our national goals here in the united states yeah yeah so that's a that's a great question john let me let me talk about in two uh two basic ways but number one is and and i know um some people in the audience this might make them a little bit uncomfortable but i have to talk about the threat right um and then relative to that threat i really have to talk about the importance of uh of cyber and specifically cyber security as it relates to that threat um the threats that we face um really represent a new era of warfare and that new era of warfare involves both space and cyber uh we've seen a lot of action in recent months uh from certain countries notably china and russia uh that have threatened what i referred to earlier as the peaceful global commons of space for example uh it through many unclassified sources and media sources everybody should understand that um uh the russians have been testing on orbit uh anti-satellite capabilities it's been very clear if you were following just the week before last the department of defense released its uh 2020 military and security developments involving the people's republic of china um uh and uh it was very clear that china is developing asats electronic jammers directed energy weapons and most relevant to today's discussion offensive cyber uh capabilities there are kinetic threats uh that are very very easy to see but a cyber attack against a critical uh command and control site or against a particular spacecraft could be just as devastating to the system and our war fighters in the case of gps and important to note that that gps system also impacts many civilians who are dependent upon those systems from a first response perspective and emergency services a cyber attack against a ground control site could cause operators to lose control of a spacecraft or an attacker could feed spoofed data to a system to mislead operators so that they send emergency services personnel to the to the wrong address right attacks on spacecraft on orbit whether directly via a network of intrusion or enabled through malware introduced during the systems production uh while we're building the satellite can [ __ ] or corrupt the data denial of service type attacks on our global networks obviously would disrupt our data flow and interfere with ongoing operations and satellite control i mean if gps went down i you know i hesitate to say it this way because we might elicit some screams from the audience but if gps went down a starbucks wouldn't be able to handle your mobile order uber drivers wouldn't be able to find you and domino's certainly certainly wouldn't be able to get there in 30 minutes or less right so with a little bit of tongue-in-cheek there from a military operations perspective it's dead serious um uh we have become accustomed in the commercial world to threats like lance ransomware and malware and those things have unfortunately become commonplace in commercial terrestrial networks and computer systems however what we're seeing is that our adversaries with the increased competition in space these same techniques are being retooled if you will to use against our national security space systems uh day in and day out um as i said during my opening remarks on the importance of cyber the value of these systems is directly tied to their integrity if commanders in the field uh firefighters in california or baristas in in starbucks can't trust the data they see they're receiving then that really harms their decision-making capabilities one of the big trends we've recently seen is the mood move towards proliferated leo uh uh constellations obviously uh spacex's uh starlink uh on the commercial side and on the military side the work that darpa and my organization smc are doing on blackjack and casino as well as some space transport layer constellation work that the space development agency is designing are all really really important types of mesh network systems that will revolutionize how we plan and field warfighting systems and commercial communications and internet providing systems but they're also heavily reliant on cyber security uh we've got to make sure that they are secured to avoid an accident or international damage uh loss of control of these constellations really could be catastrophic from both a mission perspective or from uh you know satellites tumbling out of low earth orbit perspective another trend is introductions in artificial intelligence and machine learning on board spacecraft or at the edge our satellites are really not so much hardware systems with a little software anymore in the commercial sector and in the defense sector they're basically flying boxes full of software right and we need to ensure the data that we're getting out of those flying boxes full of software are helping us base our decisions on accurate data and algorithms govern governing the right actions and that those uh that those systems are impervious to the extent possible uh to nefarious uh modifications so in summation a cyber security is vital element of everything in our national security space goals and i would argue for our national uh goals uh writ large including uh economic and information uh uh dimensions uh the space force leadership at all levels uh from uh some of the brand new second lieutenants that general raymond uh swore into the space force this morning uh ceremonially from the uh air force association's air space and cyberspace conference uh to the various highest levels general raymond uh general d t thompson myself and a number of other senior leaders in this enterprise we've got to make sure that we're all working together to keep cyber security at the forefront of our space systems because it they absolutely depend on it you know you mentioned uh hardware software threats opportunities challenges i want to ask you because you you got me thinking of the minute there around infrastructure i mean we've heard critical infrastructure you know grids here on on earth you're talking about critical infrastructure a redefinition of what critical infrastructure is an extension of what we have so i'd love to get your thoughts about space force's view of that critical infrastructure vis-a-vis the threat vectors because you know the term threat vectors has been kicked around in the cyber space oh yeah threat vectors they're always increasing the surface area well if the surface area is from space it's an unlimited surface area so you got different vectors so you got new critical infrastructure developing real time really fast and you got an expanded threat vector landscape putting that in perspective for the folks that aren't really inside the ropes on these critical issues how would you explain this and how would you talk about those two things well so i tell you um i just like um uh just like uh i'm sure people in the security side or the cyber security side of the business in the banking industry feel they feel like it's uh all possible threat vectors represent a dramatic and protect potentially existential threat to all of the dollars that they have in the banking system to the financial sector on the department of defense side we've got to have sort of the same mindset um that threat vector from to and through space against critical space systems ground segments the launch enterprise or transportation uh to orbit and the various different uh domains within uh within space itself like i mentioned before uh leo mio and geo-based satellites with different orbits all of the different mission areas that are accomplished from space that i mentioned earlier some that i didn't mention like weather tactical or wide band communications uh various new features of space control all of those are things that we have to worry about from a cyber security uh threat perspective and it's a it's a daunting challenge right now right yeah it's awesome and one of the things we've been following on the hardware side here in the on the ground is the supply chain we've seen you know malware being you know really put into really obscure hardware who manufactures it as being outsourced obviously government has restrictions but with the private sector uh you mentioned china and and the us kind of working together across these these peaceful areas but you got to look at the supply chain how does the supply chain the security aspect impact the mission of the u.s space force yeah yeah so so um how about another um just in terms of an example another kind of california-based historical example right um the very first u.s satellite uh explorer one was built by uh the jet propulsion uh laboratory folks uh not far from here in el segundo up in uh up in pasadena um that satellite when it was first built in the late 50s uh weighed a little bit over 30 pounds and i'm sure that each and every part was custom made and definitely made by u.s companies fast forward to today the global supply chain is so tightly coupled and frankly many industries are so specialized almost specialized regionally around the planet we focus every day to guarantee the integrity of every component that we put in our space systems is absolutely critical to the operations of those satellites and we're dependent upon them but it becomes more difficult and more difficult to understand the the heritage if you will of some of the parts that are used the thousands of parts that are used in some of our satellites that are literally school bus sized right the space industry especially uh national security space sector um uh is relatively small compared to other commercial industries and we're moving to towards using more and more parts uh from non-us companies uh cyber security and cyber awareness have to be baked in from the beginning if we're going to be using parts that maybe we don't necessarily um understand 100 percent like an explorer one uh the the lineage of that particular part the environmental difficulties in space are well known the radiation environment the temperature extremes the vacuum those require specialized component and the us military is not the only uh customer in that space in fact we're definitely not the dominant customer uh in space anymore all those factors require us along with our other government partners and many different commercial space organizations to keep a very close eye on our supply chains from a quality perspective a security perspective and availability um there's open source reporting on supply training intrusions from um many different breaches of commercial retailers to the infectious spread of uh you know compromised patches if you will and our adversaries are aware of these techniques as i mentioned earlier with other forms of attack considering our supply chains and development networks really becomes fair game for our adversaries so we have to uh take that threat seriously um between the government and industry sectors here in the u.s we're also working with our industry partners to enact stronger defenses and assess our own vulnerabilities last fall we completed an extensive review of all of our major contracts here at space and missile system center to determine the levels of cyber security requirements we've implemented across our portfolio and it sounds really kind of you know businessy geeky if you will you know hey we looked at our contracts to make sure that we had the right clauses in our contracts to address cyber security as dynamically as we possibly could and so we found ourselves having to add new language to our contracts to require system developers to implement some more advanced uh protective measures in this evolving cyber security environment so that data handling and supply chain perspective uh protections um from contract inception to launch and operations were taken into account uh cyber security really is a key performance parameter for us now it's as important as the the mission performance of the system it's as important as cost it's as important as schedule because if we deliver the perfect system on time and on cost uh it can perform that missile warning or that communications mis mission perfectly but it's not cyber secure if it doesn't have cyber protections built into it or the ability to implement mitigations against cyber uh threats then we've essentially fielded a shoe box in space that doesn't do the k the the war fighter or the nation uh any good um supply chain risk management is a is a major challenge for us uh we're doing a lot to coordinate with our industry partners uh we're all facing it head on uh to try and build secure and trusted components uh that keep our confidence as leaders firefighters and baristas uh as the case may be uh but it is a challenge and we're trying to rise to that challenge you know this so exciting this new area because it really touches everything you know talk about geeking out on on the tech the hardware the systems but also you put your kind of mba hat on you go what's the roi of the extra development and how you how things get built because the always the exciting thing for space geeks is like you're building cool stuff people love it's it's exciting but you still have to build and cyber security has proven that security has to be baked in from the beginning and be thought as a system architecture so you're still building things which means you've got to acquire things you got to acquire parts you got to acquire build software and and sustain it how is security impacting the acquisition and the sustainment of these systems for space yeah from initial development uh through planning for the acquisition design development fielding or production fielding and sustainment it impacts all aspects of of the life cycle john uh we simply especially from the concept of baking in cyber security uh we can't wait until something is built and then try and figure out how to make it cyber secure so we've moved way further uh towards working side by side with our system developers to strengthen cyber security from the very beginning of a system's development cyber security and the resilience associated with it really have to be treated as a key system attribute as i mentioned earlier equivalent with data rates or other metrics of performance we like to talk in uh in the space world about uh mission assurance and mission assurance has always you know sort of taken us as we as we technically geek out right mission assurance has always taken us to the will this system work in space right can it work in a vacuum can it work in you know as it as it uh you know transfers through uh the van allen radiation belt or through the the um the southern hemisphere's electromagnetic anomaly right will it work out in space and now from a resiliency perspective yeah it has to work in space it's got to be functional in space but it's also got to be resistant to these cyber security threats it's it's not just i think uh general dt thompson quoted this term it's not just widget assurance anymore it's mission assurance um uh how does that satellite uh operator that ground control segment operate while under attack so let me break your question a little bit uh just for purposes of discussion into into really two parts uh cyber uh for cyber security for systems that are new and cyber security uh for systems that are in sustainment or kind of old and legacy um obviously there's cyber vulnerabilities that threaten both and we really have to employ different strategies for for defense of of each one for new systems uh we're desperately trying to implement across the department of defense in particular in the space world a kind of a devsecops methodology and practice to delivering software faster and with greater security for our space systems here at smc we have a program called enterprise ground services which is a tool kit basically a collection of tools for common command and control of different satellite systems egs as we call it has an integrated suite for defensive cyber capabilities network operators can use these tools to gain unprecedented insight to data flows and to monitor space network traffic for anomalies or other potential indicators of of bad behavior malicious behavior if you will um uh it's rudimentary at this point but because we're using devsecops and that incremental development approach as we scale it it just becomes more and more capable you know every every product increment that we field here at uh at uh la air force base uh uh we have the united space space forces west coast software factory which we've dubbed kobayashi maru they're using those agile devops uh software development practices uh to deliver uh space awareness software uh to the combined space operations center uh affectionately called the csp that c-spock is just down the road uh from cal poly uh there in san luis obispo at vandenberg air force base they've securely linked the c-spock with other space operation centers around the planet our allies australia canada and the uk uh we're partnering with all of them to enable secure and enhanced combined space operations so lots of new stuff going on as we bake in new development uh capabilities for our our space systems but as i mentioned earlier we've got large constellations on satellite of satellites on orbit right now some of them are well in excess of a decade or more old on orbit and so the design aspects of those satellites are several decades old and so but we still have to worry about them because they're critical to our space capabilities um we've been working with an air force materiel command organization uh called crows which stands for the cyber resiliency office for uh weapon systems to assess all of those legacy platforms from a cyber security perspective and develop defensive strategies and potential hardware and software upgrades to those systems to better enable them to to live through this increasingly cyber security uh concerned era that we currently live in our industry partners have been critical to to both of those different avenues both new systems and legacy systems we're working closely with them to defend and upgrade uh national assets and develop the capabilities to do similar with uh with new national assets coming online the vulnerabilities of our space systems really kind of threaten the way we've done business in the past both militarily and in the case of gps economically the impacts of that cyber security risk are clear in our acquisition and sustainment processes but i've got to tell you it that as the threat vectors change as the vulnerabilities change we've got to be nimble enough agile enough to be able to bounce back and forth we can't just say uh many people in the audience are probably familiar with the rmf or the risk management framework approach to um to reviewing uh the cyber security of a system we can't have program managers and engineers just accomplish an rmf on a system and then hey high five we're all good uh it's a journey not a destination that's cyber security and it's a constant battle rhythm throughout a weapon systems life cycle not just a single event i want to get to this commercial business needs and your needs on the next question but before i go there you mentioned the agile and i see that clearly because when you have accelerated innovation cycles you've got to be faster and we saw this in the computer industry mainframes mini computers and then when you started getting beyond me when the internet hit and pcs came out you saw the big enterprises the banks and and government start to work with startups it used to be a joke in the entrepreneurial circles is that you know there's no way if you're a startup you're ever going to get a contract with a big business enterprise now that used to be for public sector and certainly uh for you guys so as you see startups out there and there's acquisition involved i'm sure would love to love to have a contract with space force there's an roi calculation where if it's in space and you have a sustainment view edit software you might have a new kind of business model that could be attractive to startups could you share your thoughts on the folks who want to be a supplier to you uh whether they're a startup or an existing business that wants to be agile but they might not be that big company we are john that's a fantastic question we are desperately trying to reach out to to those new space advocates to those startups to those um what we sometimes refer to within the department of defense those non-traditional uh defense contractors a couple of things just for uh thinking purposes on some of the things that we're trying to highlight um uh three years ago we created here at uh space and missile system center uh the space enterprise consortium uh to provide a platform uh a contractual vehicle really to enable us to rapidly prototype uh development of space systems and to collaborate uh between the u.s space force uh traditional defense contractors non-traditional vendors like startups and even some academic institutions uh spec as we call it space enterprise consortium uses a specialized contracting tool to get contracts uh awarded quickly many in the audience may be familiar with other transaction agreements and that's what spec is based on and so far in just three years spec has awarded 75 different uh prototyping contracts worth over 800 million dollars with a 36 reduction in time to award and because it's a consortium based competition for um for these kinds of prototyping efforts the barrier to entry for small and non-traditional for startups even for academic institutions to be able to compete for these kinds of prototypings is really lowered right um uh these types of partnerships uh that we've been working through on spec uh have really helped us work with smaller companies who might not have the background or expertise in dealing with the government or in working with cyber security uh for their systems both their developmental systems and the systems that they're designing and trying to build we want to provide ways for companies large and small to partner together and support um uh kind of mutually beneficial uh relationships between all um recently uh at the annual air force association uh conference that i mentioned earlier i moderated a panel with several space industry leaders uh all from big traditional defense contractors by the way and they all stressed the importance of building bridges and partnerships uh between major contractors in the defense industry and new entrants uh and that helps us capture the benefits of speed and agility that come with small companies and startups as well as the expertise and specialized skill sets of some of those uh larger contractors uh that we rely on day in and day out advanced cyber security protections and utilization of secure facilities are just a couple of things that i think we could be prioritizing more so in those collaborations as i mentioned earlier the spec has been very successful in awarding a number of different prototyping contracts and large dollar values and it's just going to get better right there's over 400 members of the space enterprise consortium 80 of them are non-traditional kinds of vendors and we just love working with them another thing that many people in the audience may be familiar with in terms of our outreach to innovators uh if you will and innovators that include uh cyber security experts is our space pitch day events right so we held our first event last november in san francisco uh where we awarded over a two-day period about 46 million dollars to 30 different companies um that had potentially game-changing ideas these were phase two small business innovative research efforts uh that we awarded with cash on the spot uh we're planning on holding our second space pitch day in the spring of 2021. uh we're planning on doing it right here in los angeles uh covent 19 environment permitting um and we think that these are you know fantastic uh uh venues for identifying and working with high-speed startups startups and small businesses who are interested in uh really truly partnering with the us air force it's a as i said before it's a really exciting time to be a part of this business uh and working with the innovation economy uh is something that the department of defense uh really needs to do in that um the innovation that we used to think was ours you know that 80 percent of the industrial-based innovation that came from the department of defense uh the the script has been flipped there and so now more than 70 percent uh particularly in space innovation uh comes from the commercial sector not from uh not from the defense business itself and so um that's a tsunami of uh investment and a tsunami of uh capability and i need to figure out how to get my surfboard out and ride it you know what i mean yeah i mean it's one of those things where the flip the script has been flipped but it's exciting because it's impacting everything are you talking about systems architecture you're talking about software you're talking about a business model you talk about devsecops from a technical perspective but now you have a business model innovation all the theaters of uh are exploding in innovation technical business personnel this brings up the workforce challenge you've got the cyber needs for the u.s space force there's probably a great roi model for new kinds of software development that could be priced into contracts that's a entrepreneurial innovation you got the the business model theater you've got the personnel how does the industry adopt and change you guys are clearly driving this how does the industry adjust to you yeah so um i think a great way to answer that question is to just talk about the kind of people that we're trying to prioritize in the u.s space force from a from an acquisition perspective and in this particular case from a from a cyber security perspective as i mentioned earlier it's the most exciting time to be in space programs uh really since the days of apollo um uh you know just to put it in terms that you know maybe have an impact with the audience uh from 1957 until today approximately 9 000 satellites uh have been launched from the various space faring countries around the planet uh less than two thousand of those nine thousand are still up on orbit and operational and yet in the new space regime um players like spacex have plans to launch you know 12 000 satellites for some of their constellations alone it really is a remarkable time in terms of innovation and fielding of space capabilities and all of those space capabilities whether they're commercial civil or defense are going to require appropriate cyber security uh protections it's just a really exciting time uh to be working in stuff like this and so uh folks like the folks in this audience who have a passion about space and a passion about cyber security are just the kind of people that we want to work with because we need to make sure our systems are are secure and resilient we need folks that have technical and computing expertise engineering skills to be able to design cybersecure systems that can detect and mitigate attacks uh but we also as you alluded to we need people that have that business and um you know business acumen human networking background so that we can launch the startups and work with the non-traditional businesses uh help to bring them on board help to secure both their data and our data and uh and and make sure our processes and systems are are free as much as possible from uh uh from attack um for preparation for for audience members who are young and maybe thinking about getting into this uh trade space um you gotta be smart on digital networking uh you gotta understand basic internet protocols concepts uh programming languages uh database design uh learn what you can from penetration or vulnerability testing and and uh risk assessment i will tell you this and i don't think he will i know he will not mind me telling you this but you've got to be a lifelong learner and so two years ago i'm at home one evening and i get a phone call on my cell phone and it's my boss the commander of air force space command uh general j raymond who is now currently the chief of space operations and he is on temporary duty flying overseas he lands where he's going and he first thing he does when he lands is he calls me and he goes jt um while i was traveling um i noticed that there were e-books available on the commercial airliner i was traveling on and there was an e-book on something called scrumming and agile devsecops and i read it have you read it um and i said no sir but if you tell me what the title of the book is i will read it and so i got to go to my staff meeting um you know the very next week the next time we had a staff meeting and tell everybody in the stab meeting hey if the four star and the three star can read the book about scrumming then i'm pretty sure all of you around this table and all our lieutenants and our captains our gs13s all of our government employees can get smart on uh the scrumming development process and interestingly as another side i had a telephone call with him last year during the holidays where he was trying to take some leave and i said sir what are you up to today are you are you you know making eggnog for the event tonight or whatever and the chief of space operations told me no i'm trying to teach myself python i'm at lesson two and it's not going so well but i'm i'm gonna figure this out and so that kind of thing if the chief of staff or the you know the the the chief of space operations can prioritize scrumming and python language and innovation in his daily schedule then we're definitely looking for other people who can do that and we'll just say lower levels of rank uh throughout our entire space force enterprise um look i i we don't need to need people that can code a satellite from scratch but we need to know we need to have people that have a basic grasp of the programming basics and cyber security requirements and that can turn those things into into meaningful actions obviously in the space domain things like basic physics and orbital mechanics are also important uh space is not an intuitive uh domain so under understanding how things survive uh on orbit is really critical to making the right design and operational decisions and you know i know there's probably a lot because of this conference i know there's a probably a whole lot of high-speed cyber security experts out in the audience and i need those people in the u.s space force the the country is counting on it but i wouldn't discount having people that are just cyber aware or cyber savvy right i have contracting officers and logisticians and program managers and they don't have to be high-end cyber security experts but they have to be aware enough about it to be able to implement cyber security protections um into our space system so the skill set is is really really broad um our adversaries are pouring billions of dollars into uh define designing uh and fielding offensive and destructive space cyber security weapons right they've repeatedly shown really a blatant disregard of safety and international norms for good behavior on orbit and the cyber security aspects of our space systems is really a key battleground going forward so that we can maintain that as i mentioned before peaceful uh global commons of space we really need all hands on deck if you're interested in helping in uniform if you're interested in helping uh not in uniform uh but as a government employee a commercial or civil employee to help us make cyber security more important uh or more cape more able to be developed for our space systems then we'd really love to uh to work with you or have you on the team to build that safe and secure future for our space systems lieutenant general john thompson great insight thank you for sharing all that awesome stories too and motivation for the young next generation the united states space force approach of cyber security really amazing talk thank you for your time final parting question is as you look out and you had your magic wand what's your view for the next few years in terms of things that we could accomplish it's a super exciting time what do you hope for so um um first of all john thanks to you and and thanks to cal poly uh for the invitation and and thanks to everybody for uh for their interest in cyber security especially as it relates to space systems that's here at the conference um uh there's a quote and i'll read it here uh from uh bernard schriever who was the uh the founder if you will uh a legend in uh dod space the founder of the western development division which was a predecessor organization to space and missile systems center general shrever i think captures the essence of what how we see the next couple of years the world has an ample supply of people who can always come up with a dozen good reasons why new ideas will not work and should not be tried but the people who produce progress are breed apart they have the imagination the courage and the persistence to find solutions and so i think if you're hoping that the next few years of space innovation and cyber security innovation are going to be a pony ride at the county fair then perhaps you should look for another line of work because i think the next few years in space and cyber security innovation are going to be more like a rodeo um and a very dynamic rodeo as it goes it is a an awesome privilege to be part of this ecosystem it's really an honor for me to um to be able to play some small role uh in the space ecosystem and trying to improve it uh while i'm trying to improve the chances of uh of the united states of america in a uh in a space war fighting uh uh environment um and so i thank all of you for uh participating today and for this little bit of time that you've allowed me to share with you thank you sir thank you for your leadership and thank you for the for the time for this awesome event space and cyber security symposium 2020 i'm john furrier on behalf of cal poly thanks for watching [Music]

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. It's CubeCon cloud native con 2019. You're watching the cube. I'm streaming in my cohost for three days of live coverage is John Troyer and happened at welcome fresh off the keynote stage to my right is as hers as har who's the chief architect for telco at red hat and the man that was behind the scenes for a lot of it, hunting Garcia, telco solutions manager at red hat. A gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us and a very interesting keynote. So you know 5g uh, you know, my background's networking, we all watch it. Um, uh, let's say my telco provider already says that I have something related to five G on my phone that we grumble a little bit about, but we're not going to talk about that where we are going to talk about his keynote. Uh, we had a China mobile up on stage. Uh, maybe a, I love a little bit behind the scenes as you were saying. Uh, you know, the cloud native enabled not just uh, you know, the keynote and what it's living, but it gets a little bit of what >>well, sure. Um, look, when we took on this particular project to build a cloud native environment, uh, for five genes, we spent a lot of time planning and in fact this is a guy who actually did, you know, most of that work, um, to do a lot of planning in terms of picking different components and getting that together. Um, one of the things that cloud native environment allows us to do is bring things up quickly. The resilience part of it and the scale bar, right? Those are the two important components and attributes of cloud native. In fact, what happened last night was obviously one of the circuit breakers trapped and we actually lost power to that particular entire part that is onstage. I mean, nobody knows about this. I didn't talk about it as part of the keynote, but guess what? Through because it was cloud native because it was built in an automated fashion. People were able to work. Yes, they spent about three hours or so to actually get that back up. But we got it back up and running and we showed it live today. But what, I'm not trying to stress on how it failed a white fail. I'm trying to stress on how quickly things came back up and more important. The only cloud native way of doing things could have done that. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. All right. >>as, as the man behind the scenes there. Uh, it's great when we have, you know, here's actually the largest telco provider in the world. Uh, you know, showing what it, it's happened. So the title Kubernetes everywhere that telco edge gets a little bit of a hind, the scenes as to kind of the, the, the mission of building the solution and how you got it, you know, your, your, your customers, your partners, uh, engaged and excited to participate in. >> This is what's that very thirsting enterprise through realize. Actually, we took four months around, uh, 15 partners. And, uh, I would say partners >>because in that case, I'm taking, uh, uh, bell Canada and China mobile is a partners. They are part of the project. They were giving us a requirement, helping us all the way to it and together other, uh, more, uh, commercial partners. And of course, uh, as whatsover Allianz, like the team in the and the open interface, Allianz is, we're working with us is, was about 8,200 people working behind the scenes to get this work, uh, to have a lab, uh, directly, completely set up with a full, uh, Fuji containerized MoMA and network in France, uh, have the same in Montreal. Fuji and fogey called directly Montiel as well, uh, in one of our partners, uh, Calum labs and then bringing here the fudgey pop, uh, and have everything connected to the public cloud. So we have everything in there. So all the technology, all the mobile technology was there. >>We have enterprise technology that we're using to connect all the, all the labs and the, and the pop here with the public cloud to. Uh, um, technology and we have of course deployed as, as a, as our, uh, was mentioning. We deployed Kubernete is on the public cloud and we have as well Kubernete is open, rehabbed, open stack, uh, sorry. They had OpenShift container platform running on the, on all the premise in the lab in France and Davi, Marcia and they pop here. Uh, as I say, it was kind of an interesting enterprise. We have some hiccups last night, but uh, we were able to put that out the world telco, >>very specialized, very high service level agreements. I always want by phone to work and so a little bit, uh, uses different terminology than the rest of it sometimes. Right. And MP and VNF and VCO. But so maybe let's real to tell people a little bit like what are we actually talking about here? I mean, people also may not be following edge and, and teleco and what's actually sitting in their home town or, or it used to be embedded chips and none, it was a like Linux, but we're actually talking about installing Kubernetes clusters in a lot of different, really interesting typologies. That's absolutely true actually with the way how, and described it as perfect in the sense that we actually had Kubernetes clusters sitting in a data center environment in France, in Montreal and a remote pop that's sitting here on stage. So it was not just independent clusters but also stretch clusters where we actually had some worker nodes here that will attach back to the Montreal cluster. >>So the flexibility that it gave us was just awesome. We can't achieve that. Uh, you know, in general. But you brought up an interesting topic around, uh, you know, Getty or, uh, or, or the Teleco's operating environment, which is different and cloud native principles has, are a little bit different where they weren't very high availability, they weren't very high reliability with good amount of redundancy. Well, cloud native and actually those attributes to you. But the operational model is very different. You have to almost use codas throwaway hardware as throwaway and do a horizontal scale model to be able to build that. Whereas in the older environment, hardware was a premium switches and routers with a premium and you couldn't have a failure. So you needed all of those, you know, compliance of high availability and upgradability and so on. Here I'm upgrading processes in Linux, I'm upgrading applications. I can go deploy anytime, tear them down. Anytime I'm monitoring the infrastructure, using metrics, using telemetry. That wasn't the case before. So a different operating environment, but it provides actually better residency models than what telcos are actually yesterday. Yeah. >>Um, it's a complicated ecosystem to put all these pieces together. Uh, it gives, gives a little insight as to, uh, you know, red hats, leadership and uh, the, the, the partners that help you put it in. >>I will let him answer that. >>Um, is another, our first rodeo. We have been working on the vitro central office project with the, with the leaner foundation, uh, networking and Hopi NFV community for three last years. Uh, let's say, and the interesting part of this one is that even though we typically get with working with what the technology that they are using now, uh, we decided it's time to go with the technologies that we'll be using from now on. Um, but of course, uh, there is a set of partners that we need. We need to build the infrastructure from scratch. So for example, we have a Lenovo that was bringing all the, all the servers, uh, for the, for the set up in, uh, and here in San Diego, which actually the San Diego pub was built originally in Raleigh, Illinois, facilities and cheap all over the country to here for the show. Uh, and uh, then we have the fabric part. >>So the networking part, that's his cologne. Uh, this was working and bringing us the software defined fabric, uh, to connect all the different future. And then, then we start building this over layers on top. So we have, they had OpenShift container platform for the to completely deploy over metal servers. And then we start adding all the rest of the components, like the four G core fundamental Tran, like dividing for GFG radio from Altron, uh, together with Intel come Scott. That's his building. He started building the mobile part of it in Montreal, a San Diego. And then we add on top of that. Then we start adding the IMS core in the public cloud and then we connect everything through the by tuning. >>So a couple of things that I'd like to highlight in terms of coordinating partners, getting to know when they're ready, figuring out an onboarding process that gives them a sandbox to play with their configurations first before you connect them back into the main environment. Partitioning that working simultaneously with Malden, we had a Slack board that was full of messages every day. We had a nonstop, you know, every morning we had a scam call, right then it's like a scrum meeting every morning, just a daily stand up from eight 30 to nine 30. And we continue that all over the day. >>So as her, one of the things I really like to China mobile, uh, when they talked about in the keynote, first of all they said, you know, the problem is, you know, 20 by 2026, you know, it's, it's rainbows and unicorns and you know, 5g, uh, you know, will help enable so much around the planet. Seriously. Um, but you know, today she, she talked about major challenge in the rollout and infrastructure and service and capability. So, you know, help us understand a little bit the hype from reality of where we are with five G what we could expect. >>Absolutely. We are going through the hype phase right now, right? We are absolutely all the operators want FFG service to be delivered for sure. The reason why they want it to be delivered as they don't want to be left behind. Now there are some operators when we in more opportunistic and looking at 5g as a way to insert themselves into different conversations, IOT conversation, um, smart city conversation, right? Um, edge compute conversation. So they're being very strategic about how the big, the set of technologies, how they go deploy in that particular infrastructure and strategically offer capabilities and build partnerships. Nobody's going to rip out their existing three G four G network and replace that with 5g by 2026. It's not gonna happen, but what will happen by 2026 is an incremental phase of services that will be continued to offer. As an example, I'll give you, um, cable providers are looking at 5g as a way to get into homes because they can deploy in millimeter wave band a radio closer to the house and get a very high speed multi-gigabit high speed connection into the home without having to worry about what's your copper look like? >>Do I have fiber to the home? Do I have fiber to the business and so on. And so. So that's actually an interesting, >>okay, so you're saying solving the last mile issue in a very targeted use. >>Absolutely. So that's one. The other area might be running a partnership with BMW Toyota in, you know, some of these car companies to provide telemetry back from cars into their own, you know, operating environment so that they know what's going on, what's being used, how is it being used, how can we, how can we do provide diagnosis before the car actually begins to fail? Uh, big, you know, private environments like oil and gas mining, they are going to deploy public safety and security where all of these, you know, policemen on and safety personnel are required to now use body cams. Now you have video feeds coming from hundreds of people. There are deployment and incidents. Now you can take that information you need high speed broadband, you need the ability to analyze data and do analytics and provide feedback immediately so that they can actually act. So do three, this specific targeted use case, even a country like India where they're talking about using 5g for very specific use cases, not replacing your phone calling. >>I love that point. And it kind of ties back into some of the other things you were saying about the a agility and the operational model. And I relate it back to it. You know, my, again, my perception of some telco maybe 20 years old and that they had a tendency to do very monolithic projects. And you know, when you're out, when you're rolling out a infrastructure across the country, there's a certain, uh, monolithic nature to it. But you're talking about rolling out one, rolling out individual projects rolling out. That's also the advice we give to it. Try it with one thing, you know, try open shift with that one application and then also though, but it takes uh, the upskilling and the cultural model. So true with your telco petitioners who are, we're on Slack, they're with you and I, you know, I don't, I don't know if there's any relation, any other kinds of things to pull out about the mirror of, of the it transformation with telco transformation and colon Turner. That's actually a good point that you bring up, >>right? Look, the costs of building, if I have infrastructure from ground up is extremely high. If they want to completely revamp that. You're talking about replacing every single radio, you're talking about adding capacity more adding, you know, backhaul capacity and so on. So that isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to happen. It may take even more 10 years. Right. I mean in the most interesting thing, that stat stack that I saw was even LTE is going to grow. LTE subscriber count is going to grow for the next two years before it flatmates. So we're not going to LTE four G that's been around for a decade almost. Right. And it's going to still grow for the next two years, then it's going to flatten and then you'll start to see more 5g subscribers. Now back to the point that you were bringing up in terms of operational model change and in terms of how things will be I D principles applying it principles to telco. >>Um, there are still some challenges that we need to solve in Coobernetti's environment in particular, uh, to address the teleco side of the house. And in fact through this particular proof of concept, that was one of the things we were really attempting to highlight and shine a light on. Um, but in terms of operational models, what use applicable and it will now be totally applicable on the telco network, the CIC pipeline. There's delivery of applications and software that testing and integration, the, you know, um, operational models. Absolutely. Those, in fact, I actually have a number of service providers and telcos that I talked to who are actually thinking about a common platform for it end telco network. And they are now saying, okay, red hat, can you help us in terms of designing this type of a system. So I think what could speak to you a little bit about, uh, in this context is how the same infrastructure can be used for any kind of application. So you want to talk about how the community's platform can be used to deploy CNS and then to deploy applications and how you've shown that. Yeah. Well this is what, >>what we have been doing, right. So we have, uh, the coordinators platform does, is actually deploy and the services we have, all these partners are bringing their Cloudnative uh, function, uh, applications on top of that, that what we are calling the CNF the quantities and network functions. And basically what we were doing as well during the whole process is that we have, those partners are still developing, still finishing the software. So we were building and deploying at the same time and testing on the same time. So during the last four months, and even I can tell you even just to deny >>even last night, so the full CACD pipeline that we deploy in ID side, here it is in operation on the network side. >>Well yeah. So, so I, I want to give you the final word cause you know, John was talking about it cycles, you know, if you think about enterprises, how long they used to take to deploy things, uh, and what cloud data is doing for them. Uh, it sounds like we're going through a similar trends. >>Absolutely big in a big way. Um, telcos are actually deploying a private cloud environment and they're also leveraging public cloud in mind. In fact, sometimes they using public cloud as sandbox for their development to be completed until they get deployed and private. Claremont, they still need the private time enrollment for their own purposes, like security, data sovereignty and uh, you know, their own operational needs. So, but they want to make it as transparent as possible. And in fact, that was one of the things we want to also attempted to show, which is a public cloud today, a private cloud and bare metal, a private cloud on OpenStack. And it was like, and you know, it came together, it worked, but it is real. That's more important. And, uh, for enterprise and for telcos to be literally going down the same path with respect to their applications, their services and their operational models. I think this is really a dream come true. >>Well, congratulations on the demo. Uh, but even more importantly, congratulations on the progress. Great to see, uh, you know, the global impact that's going to have in the telecommunications market. Definitely look forward to hearing more than. >>Thank you very much. Thank you. The opportunity to >>actually be here. All right. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman back with lots more here from CubeCon Claude, date of con 2019 in San Diego, California. Thanks for watching the queue.

>>live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the Q covering answerable best 2019. Brought to you by Red hat. >>Welcome back, everyone to the Cube. Live coverage in Atlanta, Georgia for answerable fest. This is Red Hats Event where all the practices come together. The community to talk about automation anywhere. John Kerry with my coast to Minutemen, our next two guests arrive. And Bergeron, principal community architect for answerable now Red Hat and Greg Dankers Berg, senior director, Community Ansel's. Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. >>Okay, So we were talking before camera that you guys had. This is a two day event. We're covering the Cube. You guys have an awful fast, but you got your community day yesterday. The day before the people came in early. The core community heard great things about it. Love to get an update. Could you share just what happened yesterday? And then we'll get in some of the community. Sure. >>We s o uh, for all of our answer professed for a while now we've started them with ah, community contributor conference. And the goal of that conference is to get together. Ah, lot of the people we work with online right people we see is IRC nicks or get hub handles rights to get them together in the same room. Ah, have them interact with, uh, with core members of our team. Uh, and that's where we really do, uh, make a lot of decisions about how we're gonna be going forward, get really direct feedback from some of our key contributors about the decisions were making The things were thinking about, uh, with the goal of, you know, involving our community deeply in a lot of decisions we make, that's >>a working session, meets social, get together. That's >>right, Several working sessions and then, you know, drinks afterward for those who want the drinks and just hang out time that >>way. Drinks and their last night was really good. I got the end of it. I missed the session, but >>they have the peaches, peaches, it on the >>table. That was good. But this is the dynamic community. This is one things we notice here. Not a seat open in the house on the keynote Skinny Ramon Lee, active participant base from this organic as well Be now going mainstream. How >>you >>guys handling it, how you guys ride in this way? Because certainly you certainly do. The communities which is great for feedback get from the community. But as you have the commercial eyes open sores and answerable, it's a tough task. >>Well, I'd like to think part of it is, I guess maybe it's not our first rodeo. Is that what we'd say? I mean, yeah, uh, for Ansel. I worked at ELASTICSEARCH, uh, doing community stuff. Before that, I worked at Red Hat. It was a fedora. Project leader, number five. And you were Fedora project Leader. What number was that? Number one depends >>on how you count, but >>you're the You're the one that got us to be able to call it having a federal project leader. So I sort of was number one. So we've been dealing with this stuff for a really long time. It's different in Anselm that, you know, unlike a lot of, you know, holds old school things like fedora. You know, a lot of this stuff is newer and part of the reason it's really important for us to get You know, some of these folks here to talk to us in person is that you know especially. And you saw my keynote this morning where they talked about we talked about modularity. Lot of these folks are really just focused on. They're one little bit and they don't always have is much time. People are working in lots of open source projects now, right, and it's hard to pay deep attention to every single little thing all the time. So this gives them a day of in case you missed it. Here's the deep, dark dive into everything that you know we're planning or thinking about, and they really are. You know, people who are managing those smaller parts all around answerable, really are some of our best feedback loops, right? Because they're people who probably wrote that model because they're using it every single day and their hard core Ansel users. But they also understand how to participate in community so we can get those people actually talking with the rest of us who a lot of us used to be so sad. Men's. I used to be a sis admin, lots of us. You know. A lot of our employees actually just got into wanting to work on Ansel because they loved using it so much of their jobs. And when you're not, actually, since admitting every day, you you lose a little bit of >>the front lines with the truth of what's around. Truth is right there >>and putting all these people together in room make sure that they all also, you know, when you have to look at someone in the eye and tell them news that they might not like you have a different level of empathy and you approach it a little bit differently than you may on the Internet. So, >>Robin So I lived in your keynote this morning. You talked about answerable. First commit was only back in 2012. So that simplicity of that modularity and the learnings from where open source had been in the past Yes, they're a little bit, you know, what could answerable do, being a relatively young project that it might not have been able to dio if it had a couple of decades of history? >>Maybe Greg should tell the story about the funk project >>way. There was a There was a project, a tread hat that we started in 2007 in a coffee shop in Chapel Hill, North Carolina is Ah, myself and Michael the Han and Seth the doll on entry likens Who still works with this with us? A danceable Ah, and we we put together Ah, an idea with all the same underpinnings, right? Ah, highly modular automation tool We debated at the time whether it should be based on SSL or SS H for funk. We chose SSL Ah, and you know, after watching that grow to a certain point and then stagnates and it being inside of red Hat where, you know, there were a lot of other business pressures, things like that. We learned a lot from that experience and we were able to take that experience. And then in 2012 there there's the open source community was a little different. Open source was more acceptable. Get Hubbell was becoming a common plat platform for open source project hosting. And so a lot of things came together in a short pier Time All that experience, although, >>and also market conditions, agenda market conditions in 2007 Cloud was sort of a weird thing that not really everyone was doing 2012 rolls around. Everyone has these cloud images and they need to figure out how to get something in it. Um, and it turns out that Hansel's a really great way to actually do that. And, you know, even if we had picked SS H back in the beginning, I don't know, you know, not have had time projects grow to a certain point. And I could point a lots of projects that were just It's a shame they were so ahead of their time. And because of that, you know, >>timing is everything with the key. I think now what I've always admired about the simplicity is automation requires that the abstract, the way, the complexities and so I think you bring a cloud that brings up more complexity, more use cases for some of the underlying paintings of the plumbing. And this is always gonna This is a moving train that's never going to stop. What was the feedback from the community this year around? As you guys get into some of these analytical capabilities, so the new features have a platform flair to it. It's a platform you guys announced answerable automation platform that implies that enables some value. >>You know, I >>think in >>a way. We've always been a platform, right, because platform is a set of small rules and then modules that attached to it. It's about how that grows, right? And, uh, traditionally, we've had a batteries included model where every module and plug in was built to go into answerable Boy, that got really big bright and >>we like to hear it. I don't even know how many I keep say, I'll >>say 2000. Then it'll be 3000 say 3000 >>something else, a lot of content. And it's, you know, in the beginning, it was I can't imagine this ever being more than 202 150 batteries included, and at some point, you know, it's like, Whoa, yeah, taking care of this and making sure it all works together all the time gets >>You guys have done a great You guys have done a great job with community, and one of the things that you met with Cloud is as more use cases come, scale becomes a big question, and there's real business benefits now, so open source has become part of the business. People talk about business, models will open source. You guys know that you've been part of that 28 years of history with Lennox. But now you're seeing Dev Ops, which is you'll go back to 78 2009 10 time frame The only the purest we're talking Dev ops. At that time, Infrastructures Co was being kicked around. We certainly been covering the cubes is 2010 on that? But now, in mainstream enterprise, it seems like the commercialization and operational izing of Dev ops is here. You guys have a proof point in your own community. People talk about culture, about relationships. We have one guest on time, but they're now friends with the other guy group dowels. So you stay. The collaboration is now becoming a big part of it because of the playbook because of the of these these instances. So talk about that dynamic of operational izing the Dev Ops movement for Enterprise. >>All right, so I remember Ah, an example at one of the first answer professed I ever went thio There were there were a few before I came on board. Ah, but it was I >>think it was >>the 1st 1 I came to when I was about to make the jump from my previous company, and I was just There is a visitor and a friend of the team, and there was an adman who talked to me and said, For the first time, I have this thing, this playbook, that I can write and that I can hand to my manager and say this is what we're going to D'oh! Right? And so there was this artifact that allowed for a bridging between different parts of the organization. That was the simplicity of that playbook that was human readable, that he could show to his boss or to someone else in the organ that they could agree on. And suddenly there was this sort of a document that was a mechanism for collaboration that everyone could understand buy into that hadn't really existed before. Answerable existed after me. That was one of the many, you know, flip of the light moments where I was like, Oh, wow, maybe we have something >>really big. There were plenty of other infrastructures, code things that you could hand to someone. But, you know, for a lot of people, it's like I don't speak that language right? That's why we like to say like Ansel sort of this universal automation language, right? Like everybody can read it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. Uh, it's, you know, great for your exact example, right? I'm showing this to my manager and saying This is the order of operations and you don't have to be a genius to read it because it's really, really readable >>connecting system which connects people >>right. It's fascinating to May is there was this whole wave of enterprise collaboration tools that the enterprise would try to push down and force people to collaborate. But here is a technology tool that from the ground up, is getting people to do that collaboration. And they want to do it. And it's helping bury some >>of those walls. And it's interesting you mention that I'm sure that something like slack is a thing that falls into that category. And they've built around making sure that the 20 billion people inside a company all sign up until somebody in the I T departments like, What do you mean? These random people are just everyone's using it. No one saving it isn't secure, and they all freak out, and, um, well, I mean, this is sort of, you know, everybody tells her friend about Ansel and they go, Oh, right, Tool. That's gonna save the world Number 22 0 wait, actually, yeah. No, this is This actually is pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get started. >>Well, you know, sometimes the better mouse trap will always drive people to that solution. You guys have proven that organic. What's interesting to me is not only does it keep win on capabilities, it actually grew organically. And this connective tissue between different groups, >>right? Got it >>breaks down that hole silo mentality. And that's really where I tease been stuck? Yes. And as software becomes more prominent and data becomes more prominent, it's gonna just shift more power in the hands of developer and to the, uh, just add mons who are now being redeployed into being systems, architects or whatever they are. This transitional human rolls with automation, >>transformation architect >>Oh my God, that's a real title. I don't >>have it, but >>double my pay. I'll take it. >>So collections is one of the key things talked about when we talk about the Antelope Automation platform. Been hearing a lot discussion about how the partner ecosystems really stepping up even more than before. You know, 4600 plus contributors out there in community, But the partners stepping up Where do you see this going? Where? Well, collections really catalyze the next growth for your >>It's got to be the future for us that, you know, there there were a >>few >>key problems that we recognize that the collections was ultimately the the dissolution that we chose. Uh, you know, one key problem is that with the batteries included model that put a lot of pressure on vendors to conform to whatever our processes were, they had to get their batteries in tow. Are thing to be a part of the ecosystem. And there was a huge demand to be a part of our ecosystem. The partners would just sort of, you know, swallow hard and do what they needed to d'oh. But it really wasn't optimized Tol partners, right? So they might have different development processes. They might have different release cycles. They might have different testing on the back end. That would be, you know, more difficult to hook together collections, breaks a lot of that out and gives our partners a lot of freedom to innovate in their own time. Uh, >>release on their own cycle, the down cycle. We just released our new version of software, but you can't actually get the new Ansel modules that are updated for it until answerable releases is not always the thing that you know makes their product immediately useful. You know, you're a vendor, you really something new. You want people to start using it right away, not wait until, you know answerable comes around so >>and that new artifact also creates more network effects with the, you know, galaxy and automation hub. And you know, the new deployment options that we're gonna have available for that stuff. So it's, I think it's just leveling up, right? It's taking the same approach that's gotten us this foreign, just taking out to, uh, to another level. >>I certainly wouldn't consider it to be like that. Partners air separate part of our They're still definitely part of the community. It's just they have slightly different problems. And, you know, there were folks from all sorts of different companies who are partners in the contributor summit. Yesterday >>there were >>actually, you know, participating and you know, folks swapping stories and listening to each other and again being part of that feedback. >>Maybe just a little bit broader. You know, the other communities out there, I think of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, the Open Infrastructure Foundation. You're wearing your soul pin. I talk a little bit of our handsome How rentable plays across these other communities, which are, you know, very much mixture of the vendors and the end users. >>Well, I mean and will certainly had Sorry. Are you asking about how Ansel is relating to those other communities? Okay, Yeah, because I'm all about that. I mean, we certainly had a long standing sort of, ah fan base over in the open stacks slash open infrastructure foundation land. Most of the deployment tools for all of you know, all the different ways. So many ways to deploy open stack. A lot of them wound up settling on Ansel towards the end of time. You know, that community sort of matured, and, you know, there's a lot of periods of experimentation and, you know, that's one of the things is something's live. Something's didn't but the core parts of what you actually need to make a cloud or, you know, basically still there. Um And then we also have a ton of modules, actually unanswerable, that, you know, help people to operationalize all their open stack cloud stuff. Just like we have modules for AWS and Google Cloud and Azure and whoever else I'm leaving out this week as far as the C N. C f stuff goes, I mean again, we've seen a lot of you know how to get this thing up and running. Turns out Cooper Daddy's is not particularly easy to get up and running. It's even more complicated than a cloud sometimes, because it also assumes you've got a cloud of some sort already. And I like working on our thing. It's I can actually use it. It's pretty cool. Um, cube spray on. Then A lot of the other projects also have, you know, things that are related to Ansel. Now there's the answer. Will operator stuff? I don't know if you want to touch on that, but >>yeah, uh, we're working on. We know one of the big questions is ah, how do answerable, uh, and open shift slash kubernetes work together frequently and in sort of kubernetes land Open shift land. You want to keep his much as you can on the cluster. Lots of operations on the cluster. >>Sometimes you got >>to talk to things outside of the cluster, right? You got to set up some networking stuff, or you gotta go talk to an S three bucket. There's always something some storage thing. As much as you try to get things in a container land, there's all there's always legacy stuff. There's always new stuff, maybe edge stuff that might not all be part of your cluster. And so one of the things we're working on is making it easier to use answerable as part of your operator structure, to go and manage some of those things, using the operator framework that's already built into kubernetes and >>again, more complexity out there. >>Well, and and the thing is, we're great glue. Answerable is such great glue, and it's accessible to so many people and as the moon. As we move away from monolithic code bases to micro service's and vastly spread out code basis, it's not like the complexity goes away. The complexity simply moves to the relationship between the components and answerable. It's excellent glue for helping to manage those relationships between. >>Who doesn't like a glue layer >>everyone, if it's good and easy to understand, even better, >>the glue layers key guys, Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights. Thank you so much for a quick minute to give a quick plug for the community. What's up? Stats updates. Quick projects Give a quick plug for what's going on the community real quick. >>You go first. >>We're big. We're 67 >>snow. It was number six. Number seven was kubernetes >>right. Number six out of 96 million projects on Get Hub. So lots of contributors. Lots of energy. >>Anytime. I tried to cite a stat, I find that I have to actually go and look it up. And I was about to sight again. >>So active, high, high numbers of people activity. What's that mean? You're running the plumbing, so obviously it's it's cloud on premise. Other updates. Projects of the contributor day. What's next, what's on the schedule. >>We're looking to put together our next contributor summit. We're hoping in Europe sometime in the spring, so we've got to get that on the plate. I don't know if we've announced the next answer will fast yet >>I know that happens tomorrow. So don't Don't really don't >>ruin that for everybody. >>Gradual ages on the great community. You guys done great. Work out in the open sores opened business. Open everything these days. Can't bet against open. >>But again, >>I wouldn't bet against open. >>We're here. Cube were open. Was sharing all the data here in Atlanta with the interviews. I'm John for his stupid men. Stayed with us for more after this short break.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019 brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, for AWS reinforce Amazon web services. First inaugural conference around Cloud Security. I'm John for your Michael's Day. Volante, our next Katie Jenkins s V P. C. Vice President. See? So, Chief Information Security officer with Liberty Mutual Big Company, Lot of activity insurance. Lot of probably a lot of action on your side. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. So you've been in this job for about a year. Tell us about what's going on in Libya. Means you guys have a large company. 100 plus years old. You're see. So you're in charge. You're running everything. We're gonna security conference. Tell us the reality. What's going on in the real world? >> Yeah, well, this is super exciting. That reinforce, of course, is in Boston. This is Liberty Mutual's hometown assed. You mentioned 107 year old security, not security company >> insurance company. But we're >> doing really cool things in technology and security. Specifically, um, I would say to kind of bring this gathering together. We have a really rich pool of security talent of security and innovators. It really matches up with what what we're doing. So Liberty Mutual has made a very significant commitment to moving to the public cloud for our technology and computing needs. We're in about your three of that journey, maybe 25% of our workload in the public cloud. It's really been a catalyst for not just transforming our technology organisation but transforming the way security does its work in the way security engages with our development community. >> While you're the head honchos, they say there's a C so but you had 20 plus years in cyber security. This is now kind of a new category with reinforced being a branded show over AWS. I see this deserves its own conversation, and industry is a lot of action going on. What is cloud security mean to you? Because this is the focus of this show. It's not just pure clouds, a lot on premise and on cloud interactions with hybrid etcetera. You guys have been doing tons of I t over the generations with Liberty Mutual, but cloud security is the focus. What does that mean? Thio to? You guys have a cyber security standpoint? >> Yeah, um, in a word. Enablement, um, I think that the public cloud offers us, um, really interesting opportunity to reinvent security. Right? So if you think about all of the technologies and processes and many of which were manual over the years, I think we have an opportunity to leverage automation to make our work easier in some ways to to, um, avoid the situation where we have air oversight. Gosh, we encrypted everything, but you know, this set of assets over here, So through using automation and enforcement, it's a new, exciting opportunity to further develop our security capabilities. But also, you know, cloud security at cloud in general has bred a transformation of the way that are practitioners do work through agile. And it means that security has toe no work with our technologists in a different way. >> So you've had a really interesting background. Um you work for a company that does audits. I can infer from that. You've worked for service is company. You work for a technology vendor. You worked as a practitioner. So you've seen it all sides and you know Amazon. It made some comments yesterday that said, Look, the narrative in the security industry has always been fear, fear, fear. And we'd like to put forth forth the narrative. That is about Listen, the state of security is really good and strong. The union is strong and we're gonna work together in a positive message. So my question is, are you an optimist? >> Ah, a reluctant activist. Um, I think the days of having security be something that's fearful, uh are just not not doing us any any any justice in that area. I mean, security is an area of partnership. There's very little of what we do. Insecurity. It's just done by security practitioners. We need asset managers. We need compliance people. We need the privacy team. We need our auditors way. Need procurement. I mean, there's just so many different parties involved in security that if we're just instilling fear and everyone, I think it'll be difficult for us tow. Get that partnership and we need Thio. Empower people, right. We need Thio. Both empower our developers to do their work in a secure manner and we have to empower our whole workforce and our trusted third parties to make good decisions. We're educating them on how to prevent phishing attacks were doing all sorts of kind of culture based initiatives, recognizing that if it's just the security folks doing security, we're gonna have a big gap. >> One of the things that we were discussing a lot of other C. So So we've been talking privately. Off the record in the hallways and private briefings is the common theme of integration as a big part of dealing with ecosystem, either suppliers and or different teams within their different pillars of how they're organized internally and externally, and then also reducing the number of security vendors that they've been buying products from to get some also in house coding, teams working more closely on the use cases that matter. So this has become kind of ah, see, So a conversation where what? What is that criteria? How do you figure out who to have a suppliers who's gonna be around for the long haul? We're gonna be that a partnership for the enablement. So rather than having hundreds of vendors, we want to get him down to a handful. Is that something that you think about or is it a trend that you see it's happening now? >> Uh, it is a trend. I think it starts at how we even procure in select our suppliers. I mean, we're really giving a lot of thought to the area of third party risk management. And do we understand not just the elements of cyber risk and engaging with 1/3 party? But but privacy and continuity kind of risk, too. So it starts there. I don't have a sort of fabricated number in terms of I'm trying to go from X number of vendors down toe Why? But I think that there's a very purposeful thought process that we're undergoing to say, Yeah, we recognize and for certain technologies, we want to have different providers to provide some of that redundancy. Let's be smart about them. Let's make sure we really understand where those overlapping capabilities are because we don't want to be wasteful either. Right >> on the span, the question comes up to around Devil's because what we're seeing is the devil ops and security paradigms kind of coming together in terms of the concepts agility. You could do some prototyping, a hackathon do some things and then ultimately trying to get into production or two different animals. So that enablement of doing innovative things, his agility, that that's been a key theme, a positive theme. And the question is, is there a funding model? Doesn't automatically get security funding. And where's the spin that you're spending going up? So all the monetary spend questions come up. >> How do you >> deal with that ballistically? And how do you think about, you know, spend conversation? >> Yeah, um, >> it's a really interesting one, because, of course, expense >> pressures. I'm not immune to those. But I >> also think that we're in a position where, um, our executive leadership team understands the value of the work that we're doing understands the important to our policy holders. So it's less often a need to justify why we need more spend. It's a demonstration of using that spend responsibly and understanding where we might have an uplift from something that we automated to say. Well, now we have these resource is that could be doing something else. >> There's >> always something else and security, right? So if we're committed to re Skilling and making sure that people are evolving the work that they do in the talents that they have to adjust a different kind of >> no rule of thumb per se. It's more of your management recognizes the criticality of it. Therefore, you could make those calls on your own building built in building, >> project tough questions and making >> responsible decisions. But I think it comes down and knowing your technology, >> so the skills gap, obviously a huge challenge in your industry would talk to somebody else, they said. We just can't find people, so we have to bring him in and train them ourselves. We have the homegrown and take the long view. Amazon talks about the shared responsibility model, and a lot of small companies don't really understand that things misunderstood. Obviously, Liberty Mutual gets it. My question is, as you see Amazon focusing on compute in the storage and data base layer, and you guys have the opportunity to focus on other areas that are your responsibility that shared responsibility model. Have you been able to shift? Resource is how have you handled that you retrain people? Has it freed up, not freed up time to do some of those more strategic things that you want to do maybe respond more quickly. Prioritized, better automate, etcetera, etcetera. Can you talk about that from your perspective? >> Yeah. So the shared responsibility model is, uh, you know, I think that's video unimportant speaking point of this whole ecosystem. At the end of the day, Liberty Mutual. Our duty is to protect policyholder data. It doesn't matter. It's in the cloud. If it's in our data, Southers, we have that duty. It's >> on you. >> So I think a lot about the skills that we will need in the future. So I've referenced sort of vaguely that yet. Compliance area is a particularly interesting area where we have opportunities to able to more easily Bingley produced artifacts on our auditors need to really bring automation to a process that just has a very steep history and being manual in nature. So, yeah, I understand that tomorrow we're not gonna ask everyone to make a big switch and I'll become developers. But way do you know plenty of people to this conference and they are participating in the tracks on how to bring of automation to compliance. And I think that's pretty heavily in training opportunities for people. >> How do you look about the vendor lock in conversation because of cloud. The value proposition certainly shifts in the old model was, Oh, you by event supplier and you're in, You're locked in with database or whatever with Cloud. There's a lot of switching costs, opportunities to move around. But people generally settling in on one main cloud and having this may be a hybrid backup cloud or the cloud is the secondary is the focus of the team's How do you view, um, lock And when you deal with suppliers because you don't want to be stuck with once a fire? If you have the need to be agile, you want to have options. How do you guys think about that? Because being in agility is key for you guys to be successful. Not someone's just dealing with the vendors. >> Um, >> it does come down to balance. We do leverage multiple cloud providers, right? I think that, um, if we're too focused on making sure that we have that portability, and we could quickly move from one to another than we miss an opportunity to kind of deeply leverage. Some of the service is, for example, that the eight of us provides, but we also, you know, you've been around the block of >> your first rodeo. Exactly. >> And I think that it's important to have that perspective and prepare for the future. >> Do you, um, attend board meetings regularly? >> I do. I do for sent out to our board of directors. >> Is that a sort of frequent thing? And once a year, once 1/4 of interested in what the board conversation is like with >> it happens in a couple different context, whether it's specific to sort of an audit readout or sort of a general state of State of Security type A report out. But yeah, we have a really engaged board that asked great questions about our partners, right about things that are more culture base in terms of how we're doing with our anti phishing protection. And we talk about technology architectures, too, in the work that we're doing to make sure that we're being more fine grain in the way that we're authenticating users and devices, no matter where they work in a more secure way. They're they're interested in that. So I feel pretty lucky. Thio both have the opportunity and get deeply. Would >> you say the conversation is more of a strategic nature with the board. Is it more tactic? You just mentioned some tactical items. Is it more metrics driven or a sort of a combination of all three? >> It's a It's a combination right? I think they want to see demonstrated progress against areas that we have self identified Azarias that we'd like to prove improve. But they're also looking to see that I have a vision for where we're going to fully cognizant of the work that we've done in the public cloud and want to understand that the level of trust and they had in their security programme on premise will perpetuate and advance into the cloud. So >> when you look at clouds, security and now security, you guys have you had a perspective on full sides and clouds certainly accelerating involving fast when you find a legacy app that you're working with. We've heard other seasons. We've talked us who have had frank conversations, that look, we're deciding whether we lift and shifted more rebuild on. So there's been some visibility into when it's great to have lifted shifts and when it's great to rebuild. So that's been a conversation that I don't think been fully baked out yet. In the full narrative in the industry, it's one people are talking about. What's your view on when you have a legacy app, you want a lift and shifted or rebuild it? What goes through your mind? What's a conversation like? >> It's a conversation that we have. We have legacy. I won't hide behind behind that. But it's not a conversation in a decision that's just made by technologists, right? I think we have to articulate what the options are, and that has to be a joint decision with our business partners. I think generally I'm not preferring a lift and shift because I think that we are may be overlooking some of the opportunities to make similar security improvements that I see. But when we can get an application that's using our software development pipelines that we have embedded security controls, we have better visibility. We have better enforcement, ensuring what we know that we know what's going into. The cloud has met, you know, a number of our security standards, so to speak, that's a much better position. >> So the destruction of multiple clouds I'm interested in how you handle that you take separate teams is the same team, sort of handling everything, and it's sort of a follow up on that is I'm interested in your relationship with AWS and how that's affected your business. >> Yeah, so the security team does not. Oh, the cloud environment, so to speak. That's that's, Ah Secure Dev Ops team within our infrastructure organization. And they're very close partner of ours, right? So, yes, I do have a resource. Is that our specialist in AWS versus other clouds and others that are identity and access management specialists are able to work on the development of those patterns across different cloud environments. Right. You know, I there's nothing bad that I could say about the relationship with our AWS partners that we felt very supported and understanding what we're trying to do introduce us to new service is and introduced it probably most importantly, introducing us to other customers that have but you know, are a little bit ahead of us in their journey. So weaken, hopefully not repeat, >> not helping you with security pieces. Well, I'm that's something that they with shared responsibility there are there working with you on this securing those workloads as you move. Glad >> be Definitely leverage their expertise. >> And you mentioned that you guys kind of made a decision a few years ago. Toe go all in on the cloud. How has that affected your business? What kind of results have you seen? A zit met expectations. Is it exceeded? You know, I >> mean, is I mentioned we do still have, Ah, a lot of a lot of our technology on premise, but for the use cases that have really seen that rapid acceleration of agile practices allowed teams to develop code so much more quickly. I think the business is generally delighted that their needs are being far more quickly met. Then >> I could ask you, there's a perpetual line in the men's room. It's quite long. So what's it like to be long? And the lady I was going to say? I don't think it is because I would say the proportion of women here is actually lower than even the industry and most conferences that we attend. So what's it like being a woman in this male dominated security business? >> I been in it so on, but I certainly have. You're in a little bit of custom toe, but not so accustomed that I'm not motivated on a daily basis to bring more women in. I think that security just has tremendous opportunities and, you know, certainly the marketing of security professionals is hoody wearing white male kind of persona. Just >> their opportunity. What some of those opportunities for women who are stem science, they might your daughters all stem love public policy, the sociology impact side. The impact that's here is a lot of range of skills. What are some of those that you would inspire someone >> I studied? Math is an undergrad. We didn't have security >> back then and since got a Masters >> degree in cyber security. So that's cool. But, you know, I think a great security professional is a great communicator, a great collaborator. I need technologists. I need developers. I need process experts. I need people that think you know very deeply about assurance type control so way have tried to attract people out of other technology round. >> And it's just not just math and computer science is creativity involved. There's a lot of things that that blend sells all kinds of diversity. >> There is, you know, you think about human psychology, right? We just totally transformed one of the systems that we use for approving for managers to approve the access of their people. Right Past system was ugly. People didn't know how to interact with it. I mean, that user experience expertise that over laid and how we developed our new platform just makes all the difference to make sure that it's actually invaluable process. Now, like I'm so frustrated. I'm just gonna sign off on this because I I give up >> really interesting because you spend a lot of time and effort and money on things that drive revenue. But this drives so much productivity in business value that, you know he's not maybe direct dollars, but clearly there. I have a question. When you recruit people, presumably you tap your network. And it's not just the good old boys network your women. Are you able to successfully find women or young women in particular that you can attract and recruit into your business as security practitioners? They had much success there. >> Yeah, so we definitely are outpacing industry numbers in terms of women and security. We have a long way to go, you know, historically excluded people right? Not just women people of color. I mean, we just have a long ways to go, right. And I think it takes more than sitting back and waiting for a recruiter to bring recruiter to bring me a slate of candidates to say no. I know people. I know people that know people. And I really have toe invest myself and make sure that my leaders know that that's my expectation of them, right? I mean, I think that way feel that diversity of thought, no matter how that diversity is expressed, is really important doing the work. >> Let us know how we could help in Silicon Valley days here in Boston as well. Love help get the word out. So anything you need for muscle now. Okay. Thanks so much for his great insights. Love to have you on the cube again sometime. Thanks. Coming on S V p. C. So at Liberty Mutual here in the cube, extracting the signal, sharing the reality of what's going on in the security equation for cloud security. I'm John for Dave. A lot. Right back after this short break

>> Voice Over: Live from Washington, D.C. It's the Cube! Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone welcome back to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit here in Washington DC. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host John Furrier. We're joined by Kim Majerus. She is the leader, state and local government at AWS. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me, I'm excited my first time so. >> John: Welcome to the Cube. >> Welcome! >> I'm excited! >> Rebecca: Your first rodeo. I'm sure you'll be a natural. >> Thank you. >> Let's start by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do, and how heading up the state and local is different from the folks who work more with the federal government. >> Sure. So I've been with Amazon a little over a couple of years and having responsibility for state and local government has really opened up my eyes to the transformation that that space is moving to. So when I think about our opportunity, it's not just state and local government, but it's actually the gov tax that are supporting that transformation in traditional environments. Everyone asks that questions, what's the difference between a federal versus a state and local? And I attribute it to this way, programs are very important in a federal space but what I'm focused on is every single city, county, state has aspirations to do things the way they want to do things, of how they need to address their specialized market. What people need in New York City might feel and look a little bit different in a small town in my home state. So when you look at the differences it's exciting to have the opportunity to impact there. >> And one of the things that you inherited in the job is state and local governments also, and we've heard this on the Cube from many guests that have been on, they didn't have the big IT budgets. >> No. >> And so, things to move the needle on R&D and experiment, you know Andy Jassy talks about experimentation and learning through failure, a lot of them don't have the luxury. And this changing landscapes, different diversity environments. >> Yeah absolutely. It's doing more with less, and each state struggles with that. And when you take a look at the budget and where state budget goes, it's predominantly in the health provider instances. So they have the responsibility to serve their constituents and their health, so what's left? You're competing with budgets for teachers, firefighters, first responders of all sorts, so they have to be very frugal with what they do and they have to learn from one another. I think that is one of the nicest things that we see across the states and the cities. >> Tell me about the community aspect of it because one of the things we're seeing on the trend side is the wave that's coming, besides all the normal investments they've got to make, is internet of things and digitization. Whether it's cameras on utility poles, to how to deal with policies just like self-driving cars and Uber. All these things are going on, right? >> Yep. >> Massive change going on, and it's first generation problems. >> Absolutely. >> Net New right? So where's the money going to come from? Where's the solutions going to come from? >> Save to invest right? So they're taking a look at Net New technologies that allows them to actually re-invest those savings into what the community's asking for. People don't want to stand in lines to get their driver's license or a permit. We just had a customer meeting, they were talking about how the challenge between the connected community. If you're in a city, in a county, who do you go and talk to? I need a building permit, do I go to the city, do I go to the county? But I don't want to go. I want to be able to do it in a different way. That's the generational change and we're seeing that, even local to the D.C. area, when you take a look at Arlington county, they have the highest population of millennials. How they want to interact with government is so different than what they've seen in times past. >> So talk to me about what, so what what are the kinds of innovations that Arlington needs to be thinking about according to you, in terms of how to meet these citizens where they are and what they're accustomed to? >> Expectations, I mean take a look at, we walk outside the street you see birds sitting around there and you've got to be able to give them transportation that is accustomed to what they do every single day. They want to buy, they want to communicate and more importantly they want to their services when they look for it. They don't want to have to go to the buildings, they want to have to, they want to be able to actually access the information, find exactly where they need to go to grab that specific service. I mean long is the day that you would stand there are say, well I don't know which office to go to, send me. People want to look and everything's got to be available and accessible. >> I mean this is classic definition of what Andy Jassy and Theresa talk about. Removing all that undifferentiated heavy-lifting. >> Yep, barriers. >> All this red tape, and the lack of budget. All these things kind of create this environment. What are you guys doing to address that? How do you get people over the hump to saying, okay, it's okay to start this journey, here's some successes, is it get a couple wins under your belt first? What's the process? Take us through it and use (mumbles). >> I think this has been probably one of the most refreshing parts for me to be a part of AWS. It's really starting with, what problem are you trying to solve for? What is the biggest issue that you have? And we work backwards from their needs. And it's a very different approach than how others have worked with our customers, our state and local customers, because we're used to selling them this thing for this opportunity, whereas we take three steps backwards and say let's start from the beginning. What issues are you having? What're your constituents having? Was with a group of CIOs on Monday and we went through this whole process of, who are your customers? And they would've thought, well it's an agency here and it's an agency there, and what they soon realized is, those are my stakeholders, those are not my customers. So if we really look at it more of a product versus a project with the state and local executives, it's really changing their perspective on how they could actually have a full cycle of opportunity, not a project-based solution. So when you think about how a constituent wants to work through the government, or access it's services, it will look and feel differently if you're thinking about the full life-cycle of it, not the activity. >> You know one thing I want to ask you that came up in a couple conversations earlier, and then what the key note was. The old days was if you worked for the government, it was slow, why keep the effort if you can't achieve the objective? I'm going to give up, people get indifferent, they abandon their initiatives. Now Andy and you guys are talking about the idea that you can get to the value proposition earlier. >> Yes. >> So, even though you can work backwards, which I appreciate, love the working backwards concept, but even more reality for the customer in public and local and state is like, they now see visibility into light at the end of the tunnel. So there's changing the game on what's gettable, what's attainable, which is aspirational. >> It might feel aspirational for those who have not embraced the art of what's possible, and I think one of the things that we've seen recently in another state. They had a workforce that liked to do what they did, as Andy said, "Touch the tin." And when you think about that whole concept, you never touch the tin. So now let's take a look at your workforce, how do we make being in government the way to, as Andy close it, to make the biggest impact for your local community. So some states are saying, what we've done is we still need the resources we have, but the resources that are moving up the stack and providing more of an engagement of difference, those are the ones that are taking those two pizza team type of opportunities and saying what are we going to do to change the way they interact? >> With real impact. >> With real impact. >> Andy also talked about real problems that could be solved, and he didn't really kind of say federal or any kind of category, he just kind of laid it out there generally. And this is what people care about, that work for state, local and federal. They actually want to solve problems so there are a lot of problems out there. What are you seeing at the state and local level that are on the top problem statements that you're seeing where Cloud is going to help them? >> A great example would be, when you think about all the siloed organizations within our community care. You're unable to track any one record, and a record could be an individual or an organization. So what they're doing is they're moving all those disparate data silos into an opportunity say let's dedupe-- how many constituents do we have? What type of services do they need? How do we become proactive? So when you take a look at someone who's moved into the community and their health record comes in, what're the services that they need? Because right now they have to go find those services and if they county were to do things more proactively, say hey, these are the services that you need, here is where you can actually go and get them. And it's those individual personalized engagements that, once you pull all that data together through all the different organizations, from the beginning of a 911 call for whatever reason, through their health record to say, this is the care that they, these are the cares that they have, and these are the services that they need, and oh by the way they might be allergic to something or they might have missed a doctor's appointment, let's go ensure that they are getting the healthcare. There's one state that's actually even thinking about their senior care. Why don't we go put an Alexa in their house to remind them that these are the medications that you need? You have a doctor's appointment at 2 o'clock, do you want me to order a ride for you to get to your doctor's appointment on time? That is proactive. >> And also the isolation for a lot of old people living by themselves, having another voice who can answer their question is actually incredibly meaningful. >> It is, and whether it's individual care to even some are up and rising drivers. A great application in Utah is they've actually used Alexa and wrote skills around Alexa so that they could pre-test at home before they go take their test are the driver's license facility. So when you think about these young kids coming into the government, how interactive and how exciting for them to say, hey, I'm going to take the time, I have my Alexa, she's going to ask me all the questions that I need to literally the other end of the spectrum to say, hey, I can order you an Uber, I could provide you with a reminder of your doctor's appointments or any health checks requirements that you might need along the way. >> So you're talking about the young people today engaging with government in this way, but what about actually entering the government as a career? Because right now we know that there's just such a poisonous atmosphere in Washington, extreme partisanship and it doesn't seem like a very, the government doesn't seem appealing to a lot of people. And when they are thinking about, even the people who are in Cloud, not necessarily in the public policy, what're you hearing, what're you thinking? What's AWS's position on this? >> This is where I love my brother and in the education space. So in two different areas we have California, Cal State Poly, and then we also have Arizona State University who have put in kicks. They're innovation centers are the university that they're enlisting these college students or maybe project based that are coming in and helping solve for some of the state and local government challenges. I think the important part is, if you could grab those individuals in early through that journey in maybe through their later years of education say, hey, you could write apps, you could help them innovate differently because it's through their lens. That gets them excited and I think it's important for everyone to understand the opportunity and whether it's two years, four years or a lifetime career, you've got to see it from the other side and I think, what we hear from the CIOs today across the states is they want to pull that talent in and they want to show them the opportunity, but more importantly they want to see the impact and hear from them what they need differently. So it's fun. >> There's a whole community vibe going on. >> Yeah. >> And we were riffing on day one on our intro about a new generation of skill, not just private and public sector, both. We have a collective intelligence and this is where open-data, openness, comes in, and that's resource. And I think a lot of people are looking at it differently and I think this is what gets my attention here at this event this year, besides the growth and size, is that Cloud is attracting smart people, it's attracting people who look at solutions that are possibly attainable, and for the first time you're seeing kind of progress. >> It's a blank sheet of paper. >> There's been progress before I don't mean to say there's no progress, there's new kinds of progress. >> I think the best part, and I say this to people who are working with Amazon, when you think about a blank sheet of paper, that's where we're at. And I think that's the legacy that we need to get through, it's like this is the way we've done it, this is the way we've always done it. In state and local government we're dealing with procurement challenges, they know how to do CATPACs, they don't know how to OPECs, so how can you help us change the way they look at assets, and more importantly, break through those barriers so that we could start with a blank sheet of paper and build from the ground-up what's needed, versus just keep on building on what was out there. >> So that mean education's paramount for you. So what're you guys doing with education? Share some notable things that are important that are going on that are on education initiatives that you can help people. >> It's starting at the 101. Again I think it's the partnership with the education, what we have in the community college, and even starting in high school, is get people interested in Cloud. But for state and local customers today, it is about workforce redevelopment and giving them the basic tools so that they could rebuild. And there are going to be people that are going to opt-in, and there's going to be people that say, I'm fine where I'm at thank you very much, and there's a place and, more importantly, there's plenty of opportunity for them there. So we're providing them with AWS Educate, we're providing them with our support locally through my team, but the important part is you get in, show them, put their hands on the keyboards and let them go 'cause once they start they're like, I didn't realize I could do that, I didn't understand the value and the opportunity and the cost savings that I could move through with these applications. >> And there's so many jobs out there, I mean Amazon is just one company that's in Cloud. There's Machine Learning, there's AI, there's all kinds of analytics. All kinds of new job opportunities that there's openings for, it's not like. No one's skilled enough! We need more people. >> I'll give you another. There was a great case study in there, they actually did a session here this week, LA County. They get 800-900 calls a day just within an IT, one of the IT organizations and Benny would say, my customer is those who are working in the county. So they've been able to move to CANACT, and now they have a sentiment scale, they are able to not only intake, transcribe, comprehend, but they're able to see the trends that they're saying. What that's been able to save by ways of time and assets and resources it's really allowing them to focus on what's the next generation service that they could deliver differently, and more importantly, cost-effectively. >> Where in the US, 'cause Andy talked about the middle class shrinking with the whole reference to the mills going out of the business, inferring that digital's coming. Where do you see the trends in the US, outside of the major metros like Silicon Valley, New York, et cetera, Austin, where there's growth in digital mind IQ? Are you seeing, obviously we joke with the Minnesota guys, it's O'Shannon on and we had Troy on earlier, both from Minnesota. But is there areas that you're seeing that's kind of flowering up in terms of, ripe for investment for in-migration, or people staying within their states. Because out-migration has been a big problem with these states in the middle of the country. They want to keep people in the state, have in-migration. What're you areas of success been for digital? >> You know what, look at Kansas City. Great use case, smart connected city, IOT. If you take a look at what their aspirations were, it was to rejuvenate that downtown area. It's all started with a street car and the question was, when people got off that street car did they go right or did they go left? And they weren't going left and the question was why? Well when they looked and they surveyed, well there's nothing there, the coffee shops there. So what they did proactively, because this is about providing affordable opportunity for businesses, but more importantly, students and younger that are moving out of home, they put a coffee shop there. Then they put a convenience store, then they put a sandwich shop down there and they started to build this environment that allowed more people to move in and be in that community. It's not about running to the big city, it's about staying maybe where you're at but in a new way. So Kansas City I think has done a fantastic job. >> And then having jobs to work remotely 'cause you're seeing now remote, virtual-first companies are being born and this is kind of a new generational thing where it's not Cloud first. >> Work is where you're at, it's not where you go. >> And yet we do need >> That's an opportunity. >> Clusters of smart people and these sort of centers of innovation beyond just the coasts. >> I'm out of Chicago. I obviously have headquarters in D.C. for public sector and corporate out of Seattle. I think there is a time and place that is required to be there when we're working on those projects or we require that deep time. But I want to be available to my team, and more importantly to my customers, and when I see my customers, my customers are not all in city buildings or county buildings or state buildings. They're all over. So it's actually refreshing to see the state government and local governments actually promote some of that. It's like well hey I'm not going to the office today, let's go meet in this location so that we could figure out how to get through these challenges. It has to be that way because people want to be a part of their community in a different way, and it doesn't necessarily mean being in an office. >> Exactly. >> Okay Kim, well to check in with you and to find out your progress on the state and local, certainly it's real opportunity for jobs and revitalization crossed with digital. >> Yep, as Andy would put it, when we look at this space, it's a labor of love and it's the biggest impact that I could make in my career. >> And tech for good. >> And tech for good. >> Excellent, well thank you so much Kim. >> Thank you. Goodbye. >> Stay tuned for my of the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. (outro music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Washington D.C., it's the Cube. Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. (upbeat music) Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back everyone to the Cube's live coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit here in wonderful Washington D.C. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight along with my co-host, John Furrier. We are welcoming Dave Levy to the program, he is the Vice President, Federal Government at AWS. Thank you so much for coming on the Cube. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. >> Rebecca: This is your first time, your first rodeo. >> It is my first time. >> Rebecca: Welcome. >> Glad to be here. >> You're now a Cube alumni, welcome to the Cube alumni club. >> Well exactly, right, exactly. So you have been with AWS for about two years now. AWS famously has this day one mentality. I want you to talk a little bit about the culture of the company and how the culture helps create more innovative products and services. >> Yeah, and it is always day one. You hear about that but truly working in my first two years, you really get the experience when you're here everyday, that excitement and that enthusiasm for customers. It's interesting and somebody was asking me the other day, how do you get influence inside of Amazon, how do you get you points across? And in large part because Amazon's not a PowerPoint culture, being charismatic or having some of those traits really doesn't carry the day. What really carries the day inside of Amazon is what customers want and so I can't tell you how many times in the first few years that I've been here that we have been in meetings, going through our customer working backwards process, where somebody has said, wait a minute, we heard customers say we prioritize these four things versus these three things. And that kind of sentiment carries a lot of currency inside of the business for what we prioritize and what's important to us and it's how we innovate on behalf of customers. So that's what happens everyday, it happens day one at AWS and it's been really exciting these first few years. >> That's been a great formula for Amazon. That long game as Bezos always says, Andy always says, customer first, customer-centric thinking. But this working backwards process we've learned, come to learn, it's really critical within Amazon. But also making sure customers have the right journey, right, they get what they need, they get value, lower costs, living with undifferentiated heavy lifting. I feel like I'm messaging for Amazon. (laughing) Got it memorized. I sit down and interview so many people from Amazon, I got the rap down but digital transformation is about the long game 'cause all the shifts that are going on now aren't incremental, small improvements, it's really moving the ball down the field, big time. So you're seeing major shifts within customer bases saying, like the CIA did in 2013, >> Dave: Sure. >> which was initially a hedge against big data, we heard on stage today, turned out to be a critical decision for their innovation, this modernization. Could you share some other customer experiences around this IT modernization trend that's, it's totally real, it's happening right now in D.C. in Public Sector. >> Sure, there are a lot of examples. IT modernization is something that takes on a lot of different forms and a lot of different agencies think about it in different ways but fundamentally, it's about taking the systems that are serving citizens or a war fighter and allowing for an ability and an agility to do things better and faster and cheaper and doing it in a way that continues to innovate. And you see a lot of examples of that. CMS has the 76 million records of Americans on AWS. You see large data sets starting to be hosted on AWS from agencies across the civilian sector. DOD is really starting to lean in on workloads that are traditional things like ERP. >> DOD is more than leaning in, they're really going big. There's a paper that they put out was very comprehensive-- >> Yeah, I think there's a tremendous advantage from this digital transformation and agencies are really just at the beginning of it. They're really beginning to see what flexibility it provides. I think the other thing that it's doing is it's really helping to modernize the workforce. It's allowing the IT workforce to start focusing on things that are really valuable instead of managing hardware or managing IT environment strictly. It's giving the ability to deliver solutions and that's really exciting, that's what modernization is doing. >> One of the things that comes up in the modernization talks, it's not that obvious on the mainstream press, but the whole red tape argument of government process. People process technology, again, we've done these conversations all the time but in each one, the process piece, there's red tape in all of them. People who go slower, the process has red tape in it but this idea of busting through and cutting the red tape. >> Dave: Yeah. >> All these bottlenecks, Teresa calls them blockers. >> Yeah. >> Right. That's her different word. >> Yeah, yeah. >> These are real, now people are identifying that they can be taken away, not just dealing with them. Your thoughts and reaction to that. >> Yeah, well, I agree. There's a lot of opportunity. Digitizing work flows gives you the opportunity to re-examine all of these operational processes which frankly, may have been in place for very sound reasons in the past but when you modernize and you digitize and you do it in a cloud way, you're going to start to see that some of those things and those processes that were in place, really aren't necessary any more. And it allows you to move faster, it gives you more speed and we're seeing that across customers and the US government. We're seeing it really everywhere. >> And one of the things you were saying too about the digitizing the work flow, it's really about ensuring that citizens, civilians or members of the armed forces are interacting with government in a more meaningful way. That is the overarching problem that you're trying to solve here. >> It is and it can be as simple as citizens getting the kind of content that they need from a modern website, accessing it quickly, going to higher level functions around chatbots and things like that. So these modern cloud architectures are allowing agencies to deliver services faster, deliver things to citizens in a way they haven't before. Could be citizens that need assistive technology. It's giving agencies the opportunity to do things around 508 compliance that they haven't done before. So it's really opening up the aperture for a lot of agencies on what they can deliver. >> We've been doing a lot of reporting around Jedi, the DOD, actually been following a lot of the white papers from a cloud perspective. We're not really in the political circle so we don't know sometimes whose toes we're stepping on when we poke round but one thing that's very clear from the agencies that I report, even here in the hallways this week, CIA and other agencies I've talked to, all talk about the modernization in the context of one common theme, data. Data is the critical piece of the equation and it's multifold, this single cloud with the workload objective or multiple clouds in an architecture like the DOD put out. So there's clear visibility on what it looks like architecturally, multicloud, some hybrid, some pure public cloud based on workloads, the right cloud with the right job and people are getting that. But data is evolving, the role of data 'cause you got AI which is fed by machine learning. This really is a game changer. How is that playing out in conversations that you're seeing with customers and talk about that dynamic because if you get it right, good things happen, if you get it wrong, you could be screwed. It's really one of those linchpin, core items, your thoughts. >> Every agency, virtually every agency we talk to, every customer we're talking to is saying that data is the most important thing, their data strategy. Data, you know, we've all heard the sayings, data has gravity, data is the new oil. So there's a lot of ways to characterize it but once you have the opportunity to get your data both unstructured and structured, in a place, in a cloud, in an environment where you can start to do things with it, create data lakes, you can start to apply analytics to it, build machine learning models in AI. Then you're really starting to get into delivering things that you haven't thought about before. And up until then it's been tough because the data, in a lot of our customers, has been spread out. It's been in different data centers, it's been in different environments, sometimes it's under somebody's desk. So this idea of data and data management is really exciting to a lot of our customers. >> Now a lot of people don't understand that there's also down, and this is what we're getting, we're hearing from customers as well is that, they set up the data lakes or whatever they're calling it, data strategy, data lake, whatever, then there's downstream benefits to having that data just materialize and as an anecdote to what is, you look at the Ground Station after we've had a couple great interviews here about Ground Station which I love by the way. I think that's totally the coolest thing because of the, well, the real impact is going to be great back hog, IoT is going to boom, blossom from it but it only happens because you got Amazon scale. So again, data has that similar dynamic where as you start collecting and managing it in a holistic way, new things emerge, new value emerges. >> Yeah, I would say-- >> What are some of those things that you're seeing with your customers there? >> I would say there are real-world challenges that our customers have to deal with with data, right. When you start to have volumes, terabytes, petabytes of data, they've got decisions to make. Do they expand the wall, knock out a wall and expand their data center and buy more appliances which require more heating, more cooling? Maybe they do do that but there's an alternative now. There's a place for that data to go and be safe and secure and they can start doing the things that they want to do with that data. And like you said, downstream effects. There are some things that they can do with that data that they don't even know about today, right, and Ground Station's a good example of that. >> You talk to people in the military, for example, because we just had Keith Alexander, our General, the General was on. They think tactical ads using data, save lives, protect our nation, et cetera but there's also the other benefit of it that has nothing to do with the tactical, it's a business value. The enablement is a huge conversation >> Dave: Sure. >> that you hear in these modernization trends. Not just the benefits tactically, but the enablement setup, talk about that dynamic. >> Well, you think about the data that is collected. You think about the valuable data at the VA and that has potential implications for population health and so this day is just enormously valuable. I think we're at the very beginning of what we can do with some of these things across federal and you look at agencies like Department of Interior and some of the data sets they have are just fascinating. What we can do. We've got millions of visitors to our national parks every day and we don't know what's possible with a lot of those data sets. >> Talk about some of the tools and techniques that are being used to work with that data and talk about AI and machine learning and how they have been a real game changer for some of your federal customers. >> Well, ML and AI is really, we're really at the very beginning of this transformation. I think in the fullness of time, the vast majority of applications are going to be effused with machine learning and artificial intelligence. I think that day is not too far away and they're using tools on our platform like SageMaker to make predictions in this data. And one of the great things about having a platform that has really three, different parts to the stack which are machine learning, that's where you have your frameworks. I say that's where all the really, really smart people live, all the data scientists that we're all so desperate for and then you've got that middle layer which are tools like our SageMaker which everyday developers can use. So if you've got geospatial data and you're trying to determine what's in a given area, everyday developers can use SageMaker to build machine learning models. Those are some of the things they're doing, very exciting. >> Hey, I want to get your thoughts on a comment that Teresa Carlson just made earlier today. I'm not sure she said this on camera or not but it was memorable. She said, "It used to be an aha moment with the cloud "but this year it's not, it's real, people now recognize "that cloud adoption is legit, proof is in the--" >> Rebecca: Cloud is the new normal. >> The proof is in the pudding, it's right there. You can start seeing evidence, all the doubting people out there can now see the evidence and make their own judgment, it's clear. >> Yeah. >> Cloud is of great benefit, creates disruption. As this continues to increase, and it is, numbers are there, see the business performance, what are the challenges and drivers for continued success? >> Yeah. I think the first conversation starter, so Teresa's spot on as she always is. I think the first conversation starter is always cost savings. That was the way everybody thought about the cloud in the beginning and I think there are cost savings that customers are going to realize. But I think the real value, the real reasons why customers do it is, there's an agility that happens when you move to cloud that you don't necessarily have in your other environments, there's the ability to move fast, to spin up a lot of capability in just a few minutes, in just even minutes and change the experience for users, change the experience for citizens. I think the other thing that cloud is delivering is this whole breadth of functionality that we didn't really have before. We talked about machine learning and AI but there are tools around IoT now. There's Greengrass on AWS which is simply AWS IoT inside. And places like John Deere, we have hundred thousands of telematically enabled tractors sending data back to planters. So customers are getting involved because there's this huge breadth of functionality. I think, and so that's exciting, those are the enablers, that's what's driving. I think some of the things that are getting in the way is, we've got a workforce by and large, especially in the federal government, well, this is new and that learning is happening, that enablement is happening about cloud. We're teaching about security in the cloud. It's a shared responsibility model. So it's the new normal, we know what can be done in the cloud but now there are some new paradigms about how to do it and AWS and a lot of our partners are out there talking about how to get that done. >> I want to get a double down on that because one of the things that we're doing a report on, I've been investigating, is kind of a boring topic but it's your world right on which is how Amazon bare-knuckled their way into this market through cost saving which for the federal government, I would say, is a great lead 'cause they care about cost savings. A financial institution in Wall Street might not care about cost savings. They might want arbitrage on the other side but again, government's government. You guys have earned, done the work to get all the certifications. Your team, Teresa's team has done that and now you're at the beginning of the next level. But procurement is really broken, right. I was talking to an official in an interview off the record and he said, I won't say his name till I can say it here, he said, "You know, we're living procurement in the 80s. "We still have a requirement to ship a manual "on a lot of these things." So the antiquated, inadequate procurement process is lagging so much that the technology shifts are happening in a shorter period of time. Amazon which produces thousands of new services every year and reinvents Jace's big slide thousands, next year it'll be probably 5000, who knows but it'll be a big number. That's happening, all this is happening right now, really fast but procurement's lagging behind it, really stunting the innovation equation, >> Dave: Yeah. >> the growth of innovation. Your thoughts on fixing that, how you get around it, all these old tripwire rules. >> Well, first I'll say, procurement reform is something that's on everybody's mind. This is, it's not just a blocker for cloud, it's a blocker for everybody. Technology is far outpacing what our federal government can do. So I don't, there's nobody that I talk to that thinks that we're headed in the right place with procurement reform, even our customers inside of the government. So I think what I'd say is it's really collective approach. It's an industry approach that's going to be taken to change a procurement, to help them adapt to modern laws. Do we need changes in the far perhaps, yes, but I think we need fundamental policy changes, a legislative approach to change procurement for technology. It's only going to move faster, you're right. Indie announced in 2018 I think, nearly 2000 services so you can expect there's going to be more this year. Part of that is understanding new models. Our marketplace, for example, is a way to buy and access software quickly, fast, even by the hour if necessary. That's a total-- >> Rebecca: Like Ground Station >> Yeah. >> in that way, yeah. >> By the minute if necessary. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> So it's a totally new paradigm. As far as how we're approaching now, it takes having good partners. We have good partners that are helping us with respect to contract vehicles. I think we're being transparent around how we bill, how these services translate, what's in the services that they're getting charged and I think agencies are starting to feel more comfortable with that. >> I learned a term from Charlie Bell, Engineer Lead for Amazon, did an interview, a term you guys use internally at Amazon called, dogs not barking. >> Dave: Yes. >> And it means that everyone, the barking dog everyone hears and they go after, they solve that problem. It's what you don't see, the blind spot, aka blind spots. What do you see in federal that's not barking >> Yeah, what are our dogs? >> that you're aware of? What keeps you up at night? >> What are our dogs not barking? >> John: Yeah. >> I would say, it really is our customer workforce. I think our customers really need to get enablement and training and support from us and the partner community on how to make this transition to cloud. It's incumbent upon us and it's incumbent upon the agencies to really deliver it. That does keep me up at night because this is new. This is new for, the ATO process is a little bit different. The accreditation process is different. So there's a lot of new things out there and if there's a dog that's not barking, it's somebody needs help and they're not really letting us-- >> They might not even know they need it. >> They don't know they need help or they're not saying that that they need help and they don't know where to go. >> Right. >> Right. >> They should come to you. >> Well, thanks for coming on. (laughing) >> Dave, thank you so much for coming on the Cube. >> Yeah, thank you, all right. >> Thank you, thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. We will have more from the Cube AWS Public Sector Summit, stay tuned. (upbeat music)

>> from San Matteo. It's the Cube covering Scaler. Innovation Day. Brought to You by Scaler >> The Run Welcome to this special on the Ground Innovation Day. I'm John for a host of The Cube. We're here at scale. His headquarters in San Mateo, California Hardest Silicon Valley. But here the cofounder and CEO Steve, It's Irwin Ski and Jeff Low product marketing director. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Thank you. But a great day so far talked Teo, the other co founders and team here. Great product opportunity. You guys been around for a couple of years, Got a lot of customers, Uh, just newly minted funded syriza and standard startup terms. That seems early, but you guys are far along, you guys, A unique architecture. What's so unique about the architecture? >> Well, thinks there's really three elements of the architecture's designed that I would highlight that differentiates us from our competitors. Three things that really set us apart. I think the biggest the 1st 1 is our use of a common our database. This is what allows us to provide a really superior search experience even though we're not using keyword indexing. Its purpose built for this problem domain and just provides us with great performance in scale. The second thing I would highlight would be the use of well, essentially were a cloud native solution. We have been architected in such a way that we can leverage the great advantage of cloud the scale, ability that cloud gives you the theological city. That cloud gives you andare. Architecture was built from the ground up to leverage that, uh and finally I would point out the way that we do our data. Um, the way that we don't silo data by data type, essentially any type of observe ability, data, whether it's logs or tracing or metrics. All that data comes into this great platform that we were in that provides a really great superior query performance over, >> and we talked earlier about Discover ability. I want to just quickly ask you about the keyword indexing and the cloud native. To me, that seems to be a two big pieces because a lot of the older all current standards people who are state of the art few years ago, 10 years ago, keyword index thing was a big part of it, and cloud native was still emerging except for those folks that were born the clouds. So >> this is a dynamic. How important is that? Oh, it's It's just critical. I mean, here, when we go to the white board, I love to talk about this in a little more detail in particular. So let's let's talk about keyword indexing, right? Because you're right. This is a lot of the technology that people leverage right now. It's what all of our competitors do in keyword indexing. Let's let's look at this from the point of view of a log ingestion pipeline. So in your first stage, you have your input, right? You've got your raw logs coming in. The first thing you do after that typically is parse. You're goingto parse out whatever fields you want from your logs. Now, all of our competitors, after they do that, they do in indexing step. Okay, this has a lot of expense to it. In fact, I'm going to dig into that after the log content is index. It's finally available for search. Where will be returned as a search result. Okay, this one little box, this little index box actually has a lot of costs associated with it. It contributes to the bloat of storage. It contributes to the cost of the overall product. In fact, that's why I love our competitors. Charge you based on how much you're indexing now, even how much you're ingesting. When you look at the cost for indexing, I think you can break it down into a few different categories. First of all, building the index. There's certain costs with just taking this data, building the index and storing it. Computational storage, memory, everything okay, But you build the index in order to get superior query performance, Right? So that kind of tells you that you're going to have another cost. You're going tohave an optimization cost. Where the index is that you're building are dependent on the queries that your users want to conduct, right, because you're trying to make sure you get as good of query performance as possible. So you have to take a look at the career. Is that your user performing the types of logs that you're coming in and you have to decide what indexing that you want to do? Okay. And that cost is shouldered by the burden of the customers. Um, okay, but nothing static in this world. So at some point your logs are going to change. The type of logs here in Justin is going to change. Maybe your query is goingto change. And so you have another category of costs, which is maintenance, right? You're going to have to react to changes in your infrastructure. It's used the type of logs you're ingesting, and basically, this is just creates a whole big loop where you have to keep an eye on your performance. You have to be constantly optimizing, maintaining and just going around in the circle. Right? And for us, we just thought that was ridiculous because all this costs is being born by the customer. And so when we designed the system, we just wanted to get rid of that. >> That's the classic shark fin. You see a fin on anything great whites going to eat you up or iceberg. You see that tip you don't see what's underneath? This seems to be the key problem, because the trend is more data. New data micro services gonna throw off new data type so that types is going up a CZ. Well, that's what that does that consistent with what you got just >> that's consistent. I mean, what we hear from our customers is they want flexibility, right? These are customers that are building service oriented, highly scalable applications on top of new infrastructure. They're reacting to changes everywhere, so they want to be able to not have to, you know, optimize their careers. They're not goingto want to maintain things. They just want to search product that works. That works over everything that they're ingesting. >> So, good plan. You eliminate that fly wheel of cost right for the index. But you guys, you were proprietary columnist, Or that's the key on >> your That's a Chiana and flexibility on data types. Yes, it does. And here, let me draw a little something to kind of highlight that because, you know, of course, it's a it begs the question. Okay, we're not doing keyword indexing. What do you do? What we do actually is leverage decades of research and distribute systems on commoner databases, and I'll use an example on or two >> People know that the data is, well, that's super fast, like a It's like a Ferrari. >> Yes, it's a fryer because you're able to do much more targeted essentially analysis on the data that you want to be searching over, right? And one way to look at this is, uh, no, Let's take a look at ah, Web access lock. Okay. And when we think about this and tables, we think that each line in the table represents, ah, particular entry from the access log. Right. And your columns represent what fields you've extracted. So for example, one the fields you might extract is thie HP status code. You know, Was it, um, a success or not? Right. Or you might have the your eye, or you might have the user agent of the incoming web request. Okay. Now, if you're not using a commoner database approach to execute a quarry where you're trying to count the number of non two hundreds that you've your Web server has responded with, you'd have to load in all the data for this >> table, right? >> And that's just its overkill in a commoner database. Essentially, what you do is you organize your data such that each column essentially has saved as a separate file. So if I'm doing a search where I just want to count the number of non two hundreds. I just have to read in these bites. And when your main bottleneck, it's sloshing bites in and out of Main Ram. This just gives you orders of magnitude better performance. And we've just built this optimize engine that does essentially this at its core and doesn't really well, really fast leveraging commoner database technology. >> So it lowers the overhead. You have to love the whole table in. That's going to take time. Clearing the table is going to take time. That seems to be the update. That's exactly right. Awesome, right? Okay. All right, Jeff. So you're the director of product marketing. So you got a genius pool of co founders here? Scaler. Been there, done that ball have successful track records as tech entrepreneurs, Not their first rodeo, making it all work. Getting it packaged for customers is the challenge that you guys have you been successful at it? What does it all mean? >> Yeah, it essentially means helping them explore and discover their data a lot more effectively than they happen before, you know, With applications and infrastructure becoming much more complex, much more distributed, our engineering customers are finding it increasingly difficult to find answers And so all of this technology that we've built is specifically designed to help him do that at much greater speed, Much greater ease, much more affordably and at scale. We always like to say we're fast, easy, affordable, at scale. >> You know, I noticed in getting to know you guys and interviewing people around around company. The tagline built by engineers for engineers is interesting. One. You guys are all super nerdy and geeky, so you get attacked and you take pride in the tech in the code. But also, your buyers are also engineers because they're dealing with cloud Native Wholenother Dev ops, level of scale where they love scale people in that market love infrastructures code. This is kind of the ethos of that market, but speed scale is what they live for, and that's their competitive advantage in most cases. How do you hit that point there? What's the alignment with the customers on scale and speed? >> Yeah, you know, with the couple of things that Stephen had mentioned, you know, the columnar database on DH, he mentioned cloud native. We like to refer to that as massively parallel or true multi tendency in the cloud those 11 two things give us really to key advantages when it comes to speed. So speed on in just that goes back to what Steven was talking about with the column. In our database, we're not having a weight to build the index so weakening unjust orders of magnitude faster than traditional solutions. So whereas a conventional solution might taking minutes even up to hours to ingest large sets of data, we can literally do it in seconds. It's the data's available immediately for used in research. One of our customers, in fact, that I'm thinking of down Australia actually uses our live tail because it actually works and as they push code out to production that can actually monitor what happens and see if the changes are impacting anything positively or negatively >> and speed two truths, a tagline the marking people came up with, which is cool. I love that kind of our fallouts. We have to get the content out there and get that let the people decide. But in your business, ingestion is critical. Getting the ingestion to value time frame nailed down is table stakes. People engineers want to test stuff. It doesn't work out of the box we ingest and they don't see value. They're not gonna kind of be within next levels. Kind of a psychology of the customer. >> Yeah, You know, when you're pushing code, you know, on an hourly basis, sometimes even minutes now, the last thing you want to do is wait for your data to analyse it, especially when a problem occurs. When a problem occurs and it's impacting a customer or impacting your overall business. You immediately go into firefighting mode, and you just can't wait to have that data become available so that speed to ingest becomes critical. You don't want to wait. The other aspect on the speed topic is B to search. So we talked about the types of searches that are calling. Our database affords us a couple that, within massively parallel and true multi tendency approach, basically means that you could do very, very ad hoc searches extremely quickly. You don't have to bill the keyword index. You don't have to have two, even build a query or learn how to build queries on DH, then run and then wait for it. And maybe in the meantime, wait to get a coffee or something like that. >> I mean, we grew up in Google search. Everyone who's exactly the Web knows what searches and discoveries kind the industry word in discovering navigation. But one of the things about searches about that made Google say Greg was relevance. You guys seem to have that same ethos around data discover, ability, speed and relevance. Talk about the relevance piece, because I think that, to me is what is everyone's trying to figure out as more data comes in? You mentioned some of the advantages Steven around, you know, complexity around data types. You know, Maur data types are coming on, so Relevance sees, is what everyone's chasing. >> So one of >> the things that I think we are very good at is helping people discover what is relevant. There are solutions out there. In fact, there's a lot of solutions out there that will focus on summarizing data, letting you easily monitor with a set of metrics, or even trace a single transaction from point A to point B through a set of services. Those are great for telling you that there is a problem or that problem exist. Maybe in this one service, this one server. But where we really shine is understanding why something has happened. Why a problem has occurred. And the ability to explore and discover through your data is what helps us get to that relevancy. >> Ameren meeting Larry and Sergey back into 1998. And you know, from day one it's fine. What you looking for him? And they did their thing. So I want to just quickly have you guys explain it. I think one thing that also has come up love to get your take on it, guys, is multi tendency urine in the clouds to get a lot of scale. We're out of resource talk about the debt. Why multi tendency is an important piece and what does that specifically mean? But the customer visa be potentially competitive solutions. And what do you guys bring for the tables? That seems to be an important discussion Point >> sure know. And it is one of the key piece of our architecture. I mean, when we talk about being designed for the cloud, this is a central part of that right? When you look at our competitors, for the most part, a lot of them have taken existing open the source off the shelf technologies and kind of taking that and shoved it into this, you know, square hole of, you know, let's run in the cloud, right? And so they're building. These SAS services were essentially they pretend like everyone's got access to a lot. Resource is but under the covers there, sitting there, spinning up thes open source solutions. Instances for each of the customers each of these instances are on ly provisioned with enough ramsi pew for that customer's needs, right? And so heaven forbid you try to issue more crews than you normally do or try to use Mohr you know, storage than you normally do, because your instance will just be capped out, right? Um, and also it's kind of inefficient in that when your users aren't issue inquiries, those CPU and RAM researchers are just sitting there idle instead, what we've done is we've built a system where we essentially have a big pool of resource is we have a big pool of CPU, a big pool of ram, a big pool of disc. Everyone comes in, get access to that, so it doesn't matter what customer you are. Your queries get full access to all these si pues that we have run around right? And that's that's the core of multi tendency is that we're able to not provision for just one look for each individual customer. But we have a big pool of resource is that everyone gets the >> land that's gonna hit the availability question on. And it's also have a side effect for all those app developers who want to build a I and stuff used data and build these micro services systems. >> They're going to get >> the benefit because you have that closed loop. Are you fly? Will, if you will. >> Yeah, yeah, the fight could just add the multi tendency really gives us a lot of economies of scale, both from, you know, the over provisioning and the ability to really effectively use resources. We also have the ability to pass those savings on to our customers. So there's that affordability piece that I think is extremely important. Find answers, this architectural force that >> Stephen I want to ask you because, you know, I know the devil's work pretty well. People are they're hard core, you know. They build their own stuff. They don't want us, have a vendor. Kuo. I can do this myself. There's always comes up there. But this use cases here. You guys seem to be doing well in that environment again. Engineering led solution, which I think gives you guys a great advantage. But what's the How do you handle the objection when you hear someone say, Well, I could do it. Just go do it myself. >> What I always like to point at is, yes, you can up to a decree, right? We often hear people that use open source technologies like elk. They can get that running and they can run it up to a certain scale like a you know, tens of gigabytes per day of logs. They're fine, right? But with those technologies, once it goes above a certain scale, it just becomes a lot more difficult to run. It's one those classic things you know, getting 50% of the way. There is easy getting 80% of the way. There is a lot harder. Getting 100% is almost impossible, right? And you, as whatever company that that that you're doing whatever product you're building, do you really want to spend your engineer? Resource is pushing through that curve, getting 80%. 100% of kind of good, a great solution. No, what we always pitches like Look, we've always solve these problems. These hard problems for this problem, too may come and leverage our technology. You don't have to spend your engineering capital on that. >> And then the people who are doing that scale that you guys provide, they want, they need those engineering resource is somewhere else. So I have to ask, you just basically followed question. Which is how does the customer know whether they have a non scaleable for scaleable solution? Because some of these SAS services air masquerading as scaleable solutions. >> No, they are. I mean, we we actually encourage our customers when they're in the pre sale stage to benchmark against us. We have ah customer right now that sending us terabytes of data per day as a trial just to show that we can meet the scale that they need. We encourage those same customers to go off and ask the other competitors to do that. And, you know, the proof is in the pudding. >> And how's the results look good? Yeah. So bring on the ingest Yes, that's that's That's the sales pitch. Yes, guys, thanks so much for sharing the inside. Even. Appreciate it, Jeff. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. I'm John for the Cube. Here for a special innovation Days scales >> headquarters in the heart of >> Silicon Valley's sent Matteo California. Thanks for watching.

>> Female Voice: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering VMware RADIO 2019, brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome to theCUBE's exclusive coverage of VMware RADIO 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier in San Francisco, talking all sorts of innovation in this innovation long history culture at VMware, welcoming back to theCUBE, Mornay Van Der Walt, VP of R&D in the Explorer Group. Mornay, thank you for joining John and me on theCUBE today. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, I got to start with Explorer Group. Super cool name. >> Yeah. >> What is that within R&D? >> So the origins of the Explorer Group. I've had many roles at VMware, and I've been fortunate enough to do a little bit of everything. Technical marketing; product development; business development; one of the big things I did before the Explorer group was created was actually EVO:RAIL. I was the founder of that, pitched that idea. Raghu and Ray and Pat were very supportive. We took that to market, took it to (inaudible), handed that off to Dell EMC, the rest is history, right? And then was, "what's next?" So Ray and me look at some special projects, go and look at IoT, go and look at Telemetry, and did some orders for them, and then said "Alright, why don't you look at all our innovation programs." Because beyond RADIO, we actually have four other programs. And everyone, was -- RADIO gets a lot of airtime and press, but it's really the collective. It's the power of those other four programs that support RADIO that allow us to take an idea from inception to an impactful outcome. So hence the name, the Explorer Group. We're going out there, we're exploring for new ideas, new technologies, what's happening in the market. >> Talk about the R&D management style. You've actually got all these-- RADIO's one-- kind of a celebration, it's kind of the best of the best come together, with papers and submissions. Kind of a symposium meets kind of a, you know, successive end for all the top engineers. There's more, as you've mentioned. How does all of it work? Because, in this modern era of distributed teams, decentralization, decisions around business, decisions on allocating to the portfolio, what gets invested, money, spend, how do you organize? Give a quick minute to explain how R&D is structured. >> So, obviously, we have the BUs structured-- well there's PCS, Raghu and Rajeev head that up. And then we've got the OCTO organization, which Ray O'Farrell heads up. And the business, you know, it's innovating every day to get products out the door, right, and that's something that we've got to be mindful of because, I mean, that's ultimately what's allowing us to get products into the hands of our customers, solving tough problems. But then in addition to that, we want to give our engineers an avenue to go and explore, and, you know, tinker on something that's maybe related to their day job, or completely off, unrelated to their day job. The other thing that's important is, we also want to give, because we're such a global R&D, you know, our setup globally, we want to give teams the opportunity to work together, collaborate together, get that diversity of thought going, and so a lot of times, if we do a Hackathon, which we call a Borathon, we actually give bonus points if teams pull from outside of their business units. So you've got an idea, well, let's make it a diverse idea in terms of thought and perspective. If you're from the storage business unit, bring in folks from the network business unit. Bring in folks from the cloud business unit. Maybe you've partnered with some folks that are in IT. It's very, you know, sometimes engineers will go, "Ah, it's just R&D that's innovating." But in reality, there's great innovation coming out of our IT department. There's great innovation coming out of our global support organization. Our SEs that are on the front lines, sometimes are seeing the customers' pain points firsthand, and then they bring that back, and some of that makes it into the product. >> How much of R&D is applied R&D, which is kind of business unit aligned, or somewhat aligned, versus the wacky, crazy ideas: "Go solve a big, hairy problem", that's out there, that's not, kind of, related to the current product sets? >> Ah, that's tough to put an actual number on it, >> John: Well ballpark, I mean. >> But if I just say, like, if I had to just think about budgets and that, it's probably ten to fifteen percent is the wacky stuff, that's, you know, not tied to a roadmap, that's why we call it "off-road innovation", and the five programs that my Explorer Group ultimately leads is all about driving that off-road innovation. And eventually you want to find an on-ramp, >> Yeah. >> to a roadmap, you know, that's aligned to a business unit, or a new emerging, you know, technology. >> How does someone come up with an idea and say, "Hey, you know, I want to do this"? Do they submit, like, a form? Is there a proposal? Who approves it? I mean, do you get involved? How does that process work? >> So that's a good question. It really depends on the engineer, right? You take someone who's just a new college grad, straight out of, you know, college. That's why we have these five programs. Because some of these folks, they've got a good idea, but they don't really know how to frame it, pitch it. And so if you've got a good idea, and let's say, this is your first rodeo, so to speak, We have a program called TechTalks where it allows you to actually go and pitch your idea; get some feedback. And that's sometimes where you get the best feedback, because you go and, you know, present your idea, and somebody will come back and say, "Well, you know, have you met, you know, Johnny and Sue over there, in this group? They're actually working on something similar. You should go and talk to them, maybe you guys can bring your ideas together." Folks that are, you know, more seasoned, you know, longer tenure, sometimes they just come up, and-- "I'm going to pitch an idea to xLabs," and for xLabs, for example --that's an internal incubator-- there is, like, a submissions process. We want to obviously make sure, that, you know, your idea's timing in the market's correct, we've got limited funding there so we're going to make sure we're really investing on the right, you know, type of ideas. But if you don't want to go and pitch your idea and get feedback, go and do a Borathon. Turn an idea into a little prototype. And we see a lot of that happening, and some of the greatest ideas are coming from our Borathons, you know? And it's also about tracking the journey. So, we have RADIO here today, we have mentioned xLabs, TechTalks, we have another program called Flings. Some of our engineers are shipping product, and they've got an idea to augment the product. They put it out as a Fling, and our customers and the ecosystem download these, and it augments the product. And then we get great feedback. And then that makes it back into the product roadmap. So there's a lot of different ways to do it, and RADIO, the process for RADIO, there's a lot of rigor in it. It's, like, it's run as a research program. >> Lisa: It's a call for papers, right? >> Call for papers, you know, there's a strict format, it's got to be, you know, this many pages; if you go over about one line, you're sort of, disqualified, so to speak. And then once you've got those papers, like this year we had 560 papers be submitted, out of those 560, 31 made it onto mainstage, and another 61 made it as posters, as you can see in the room we're sitting in. >> I have an idea. Machine learning should get all those papers. (laughs) I mean, that's-- >> Funny you say that. We actually have, one of our engineers, Josh Simons, is actually using machine learning to go back in time and look at all the submissions. So idea harvesting is something we're paying a lot of attention to, because you submit an idea, >> Interesting. >> the market may not be right for it, or reality is, I just don't have a budget to fund it if it's an xLab. >> John: So it's like a Google search for your, kind of, the indexing all those workers. >> Internally, yeah, and sometimes it's-- there's a great idea here, you merge that with another idea from another group or another geo, and then you can actually go and fund something. >> Well, that's important because timing is critical, in these early-- most stuff can be early in just incubation, gestation period for that tech or concept, could be in play because the computer-- all the new things, right? >> Correct. And, do you actually have the time? You're an engineer working on a release, the priority is getting that release out the door, right? >> (laughs) >> So, put the idea on the back burner, come off the release, and then, you know, get a couple of colleagues together and maybe there's a Borathon being held and you go and move that idea forward that way. Or, it's time for RADIO submissions, get a couple of colleagues together and submit a RADIO paper. So we want to have different platforms for our engineers to submit ideas outside of their day job. >> And it sounds like, the different programs that you're talking about: Flings, xLab, Borathon, RADIO, what it sounds like is, there isn't necessarily a hierarchy that ideas have to go through. It really depends on the teams that have the ideas, that are collaborating, and they can put them forward to any of these programs, >> Correct, yeah. >> and one might get, say, rejected for RADIO, but might be great for a Borathon or a Fling? >> Correct. >> So they've got options there, and there's multiple committees, I imagine? Is that spearheaded out of Ray's OCTO group, >> Yep. >> that's helping to make the selections? Tell us a little bit about that process. >> Sure, so. That's a great point, right? To get an idea out the door, you don't always have to take the same pathway. And so one thing we started tracking was these innovation journeys that all take different pathways. We just published an impact report on innovation for FY19, and we've got the vSAN story in there, right? It was an idea. A group of engineers had an idea, like, in 2009, and they worked on their idea a little bit-- it first made it to RADIO in 2011. And then they came back in 2013, and, sort of, the rest is history, you know. vSAN launched in 2014. We had a press release this week for Carbon Avoidance Meter. It was an idea that actually started as a calculator many years ago. Was used, and then sort of died on the vine, so to speak? One of our SEs said, "You know, this is a good idea. I want to evolve this a little bit further." Came and pitched an xLabs idea, and we said, "Alright, we're going to fund this as an xLabs Lite. Three to six months project, limited funding, work on one objective --you're still doing your day job-- move the project forward a little bit." Then Nicola Acutt, our Sustainability VP, got involved, wanted to move the idea a little bit further along, came back for another round of funding through an xLabs Lite, and then GSS, with their Skyline platform, picked it up, and that's going to be integrated in the coming months into Skyline, and we're going to be able to give our customers a carbon, sort of, readout of their data center. And then they'll be able to, you know, map that, and get a bigger picture, because obviously, it's not just the servers that are virtualized, there's cooling in the data center plants, and all these other factors that you've got to, you know, take into account when you want to look at your carbon footprint for your facility. So, we have lots of examples of how these innovation pathways take different turns, and sometimes it's Team A starting with an idea, Team B joins in, and then there's this convergence at a particular point, and then it goes nowhere for a couple of months, and then, a business unit picks it up. >> One of the things that's come out-- Pat Gelsinger mentioned that a theme outside of the normal product stuff is how people do work. There's been some actual R&D around it, because you guys have a lot of distributed, decentralized operations in R&D because of the global nature. >> Yeah. >> How should companies and R&D be run when the reality is that developers could be anywhere? They could be at a coffee shop, they could be overseas, they could be in any geography, how do you create an environment where you have that kind of innovation? Can you just share some of the best practices that you guys have found? >> I'm not sure if there's 'best practices', per se, but to make sure that the programs are open and inclusive to everybody on the planet. So, I'll give you some stats. For example, when RADIO started in the early days, we were founded in Palo Alto. It was a very Palo Alto-centric company. And for the first few years, if you looked at the percentage of attendees, it was probably over 75% were coming from Palo Alto. We've now over the years shifted that, to where Palo Alto probably represents about 44%, 16% is the rest of North America, and then the balance is from across the globe. And so that shift has been deliberate, obviously that impacts the budget a little bit, but in our programs, like a Borathon, you can hack from anywhere. We've got a lot of folks that are remote office workers, using, you know, collaborative tools, they can be part of a team. If the Borathon's happening in China, it doesn't stop somebody in Palo Alto or in Israel or in Bulgaria, participating. And, you know, that's the beautiful nature of being global, right? If you think about how products get out of the door, sometimes you've got teams and you are literally following the sun, and you're doing handoff, you know, from Team A to B to C, but at the end of the day you're delivering one product. And so that's just part of our culture, I mean, everybody's open to that, we don't say, "Oh, we can't work with those guys because they're in that geo-location." It's pretty open. >> This is also, really, an essential driver, and I think I saw last year's RADIO, there were participants from 25+ countries. But this is an essential-- not only is VMware a global company, but many of your customers are as well, and they have very similar operating models. So that thought diversity, to be able to build that into the R&D process is critical. >> Absolutely. And also, think about, you know, when you're going to Europe. Smaller borders, countries, you deploy technology differently. And so, you want to have that diversity in thought as well, because you don't just want to be thinking, "Alright, we're going to deploy a disaster recovery product in North America where they can fail over from, you know, East Coast to West Coast. You go to Europe, and typically you're failing over from, you know, site A to site B, and they're literally three or four miles apart. And so, just having that perspective as well, is very important. And we see that, you know, when we release certain products, you'll get, you know, better uptick in a certain geo, and then, "Why is it stalling over here?" well it's, sometimes it's cultural, right? How do you deploy that technology? Just because it works in the US, doesn't mean it's going to work in Europe or in APJ. >> How was your team involved in the commercialization? You mentioned vSAN and the history of that, but I'm just wondering, looking at it from an investment standpoint of deciding which projects to invest in, and then there's also the-- if they're ready to go to market, the balance of "How much do we need to invest in sales and marketing to be able to get this great idea-- because if we can't market it and sell it, you know, then there's obviously no point." So what's that balance like, within your organization, about, "how do we commercialize this effectively, at scale"? >> So that is ultimately not the responsibility of my group. We'll incubate ideas, like, for example, through an xLabs project. And, you know, sometimes we'll get to a point and we'll work, collaborate with a business unit, and we'll say, "Alright, we feel this project's probably a 24 months project", if it's an xLabs Full. So these folks are truly giving up their day job. But at the end of the day, you want to have an exit and when we say exit, what does that exit mean? Is that an exit into a business unit? Are you exiting the xLabs project because we're now out of funding? You know, think about a VC, I'm going to fund you to, you know, to a particular point; if there is no market traction, >> Right. >> we may, you know, sunset the project. And, you know, so our goal is to get these ideas, select which ones we want to invest in, and then find a sort of off-ramp into a business unit. And sometimes there'll be an off-ramp into a business unit, and the project goes on for a couple of months, and then we make a decision, right? And it's not a personal decision, it's like, "Well we funded that as an xLabs; we're now going to shut it down because, you know, we're going to go and make an acquisition in this space. And with the talent that's going to come onboard, the talent that was working on this xLab project, we can push the agenda forward." >> John: You have a lot of action going on so you move people around. >> Exactly. >> Kind of like the cloud, elastic resource, yeah? (laughs) >> So, then, some of these things, because xLabs is only a two-year-old, you know, we haven't had things exit yet that are, you know, running within a business unit that we're seeing this material impact. You know, from a revenue point of view. So that's why tracking the journeys is very important. And, you know, stay tuned, maybe in about three or four years we'll have this, similar, you know, interview, and I'll be able to say, "Yeah, you know, that started as an xLab, and now it's three years into the market, and look at the run rate. >> So there's 31-- last question for you-- there's 31 projects that were presented on mainstage. Are there any that you could kind of see, early on, "ooh", you know, those top five? Anything that really kind of sticks out-- you don't have to explain it in detail, but I'm just curious, can you see some of that opportunity in advance? >> Absolutely. There's been some great papers up on mainstage. And covering, you know, things on the networking side, there's a lot of innovation going in on the storage side. If you think about data, right, the explosion of data because of edge computing, how are you going to manage that data? How are you going to take, you know, make informed decisions on that data? How can you manipulate that data? What are you going to have to do from a dedupe point of view, or a replication point of view, because you want to get that to many locations, quickly? So, I saw some really good papers on data orchestration, manipulation, get it out to many places, it can take an informed decision. I saw great-- there was a great paper on, you know, you want to go and put something in AWS. There's a bull that you get at the end of the month, right? Sometimes those bulls can be a little bit frightening, right? You know, what can you do to make sure that you manage those bulls correctly? And sometimes, the innovation has got nothing to do with the product per se, but it has to do with how we're going to develop. So we have some innovation on the floor here where an engineer has looked at a different way of, basically, creating an application. And so, there's a ton of these ideas, so after RADIO, it doesn't stop there. Now the idea harvesting starts, right? So yes, there were 31 papers that made it onto mainstage, 61 that are posters here. During that review process, and you asked that question earlier and I apologize, I didn't answer it-- you know, when we look at the papers, there's a team of over 100 folks from across the globe that are reviewing these papers. During that review process, they'll flag things like "This is not going to make it onto mainstage, but the idea here is very novel; we should send this off to our IP team," you know. So this year at RADIO, there were 250 papers that were flagged for further followup with our IP team, so, do we go and then file an IDF, Invention Disclosure Form, do those then become patents, you know? So if we look at the data last year, it was 210. Out of those 210, 74 patents were filed. So there's a lot of work that now will happen post-RADIO. Some of these papers come in, they don't make it onto mainstage; they might become a poster. But at the same time they're getting flagged for a business unit. So from last year, there were 39 ideas that were submitted that are now being mapped to roadmap across the BUs. Some of these papers are great for academic research programs, so David Tennenhouse's research group will take these papers and then, you know, evolve them a little bit more, and then go and present them at academic conferences around the world. So there's a lot of, like, the "what's next?" aspect of RADIO has become a really big deal for us. >> The potential is massive. Well, Mornay, thank you so much for joining John and me, >> Thank you. >> and I've got to follow xLabs, there's just a lot of >> (laughs) >> really, really, innovative things that are so collaborative, coming forward. We thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin; you're watching theCUBE, exclusive coverage of VMware RADIO 2019, from San Francisco. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread. >> Welcome back to the Cube and our continuing coverage here. The Red had summit. This is six time around for us. Fifth time for stew minimum. So he still gets almost the perfect attendance. Goldmark. First time for me. So still have a lot of catching up to do. Stewed minimum. John Walls and Steve Spiker now joins us. He is the senior principal product manager. Developer tools, Red Hat and Steve. Good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Let's just talk about first off development in general. I mean, there's a lot of give and take there, right? You're tryingto listen. What air? The needs. Where the deficiencies, Where can the improvements be made? But how much do you drive that on your side and how much do listen and respond to do what? You're here for. The community. >> Yeah, we do a little bit of both. And so a lot of it is responding to the community, and that's one of the areas that Red has really excelled. Is taking what's popular, what's working upstream and helping moving along make it a stable pot product or stable solution that developers can use. But we also have a certain agenda or certain platforms that we want to present. So we start from, like, various run times to actually contain our platforms. And so we want to have to kind of drive some of that initiatives on our own to help Dr Phil that because we hear it from customers a lot, it's like things you're doing are great. But like there's all these projects that need to come together sort of a product or unified experience. And so we spent a lot of our time China bring those things together as a way to help developers do those different task and also focus across like not just a job run times which we have a lot of job. >> So you might have it. You might have an in product in mind, right? And you realize that there might be a gap in terms of development, so you encourage or you try to bridged that gap a little bit. To get to that in product is that you're saying Yeah, >> so we do a lot of things to help build the pieces so that people can sometimes build their own experiences. They want. In the end, developers control kind of their own destiny, their own set of tools and a lot of customers have their own unique requirements, even like some tools they develop in house for loans, kind of regulatory reasons and other things. And so we have two, one build the pieces but also stitched the pieces together to help them have that kind of out of the box experience. Because some some customers really don't want to do that. They just want to say one kind of a turnkey solution. But then we may need to make some adjustments here and there. >> Yeah, but by Steve, you know, it's it's funny. It rhymes for me with what I saw, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago with Lennox. A lot of changes, a lot of pieces. I want to take advantage of it. But you know, a boy can somebody help me with this and you know that that's of course. Red hat rode that way pretty well right Today, cupidity is even more sprawling. There's so many different projects. There's so many pieces boy. It is complicated on DH. Therefore, how do we take advantage of that? What do I need to know? What can my platform a vendor do for me so that I don't have to manage that? Yeah, I love you. Spanned on that gives us a little bit of comparing trash. You know what's the same? What's different? Yeah, and so >> there's different aspects. I think the developer experience one thing that we talked about. It's like it just works sometimes. So, like it's if it's Cooper days. We've spent a lot time making sure it's hardened and works well. So you're not like debugging it, spending time on things that waist development time. Instead, That way, folks let on that. We also look at how we can build abstraction layers on top of that. So we built a Seelye tool called Rodeo, which is a developed, streamlined developer experience for open shift, and it's really focused on open ship. That way, that developer really just can focus on their application. They could deploy it, taken quickly, work on the changes before they commit to get, and then they can then also have a similar experience in the browser with things like Eclipse Jr Code or Dick workspaces are I got commercial offering behind that and that takes actually using the platform itself to do development, which is really, really super cool so that you can have an idea and the browser. You can also have the workspace like you're all your dependencies, like everything you would normally have on your laptop now don't need to worry about. It's now containerized and quickly spun up as a way to do development. And it's really a thing that enterprises really enjoy because they get like, quick satisfaction, like they get the stuff off the proprietary code off the death up there using their container platform, and it's building the same way they would build when they >> deployed my backgrounds on the infrastructure side. And the whole reason we have infrastructure to be able to run our abs and the Holy Grail we've wanted is you know, not not my developers. I shouldn't need to think about the stuff underneath, right? We looked at virtual ization. We look a container ization. You know, the nirvana of server lists, as they call it, is that I shouldn't have to think about that you know how we doing? Because at the end of the day, and I talked to users like Oh, jeez, well, I need to worry. What if something breaks? I need to understand the security for my environment. You know what you're seeing and talking to customers about it from there. Stop development. Yes, so they're able >> tto. It's like here's different stories, like Tool, Factor act. So it's like if you stay in certain parameters, you can have a lot of success, and that's still kind of true today. Survivalist kind of takes that to the next level, where you can really just have a predefined either a function spectacle o two and then things are really easy, and you don't have to worry about various aspects. But even though you look at the various vendors when you're working with different functions, it's even complex like, Oh, I need to provide the security on you. Make sure he sees a wire together. How do I log these things? How do I debugged when things across this mesh go wrong? And so it's like it's getting getting better. But there's still a lot of work to do to continue to improve that, and you will see a lot of innovation happening in that area, especially the work that we're working on. >> What kind of given take do you have in terms of what? Not only what is that community learning from you and the tools that you're providing them? But what are you getting back from that other than, you know, advancing a project or whatever, in terms of expertise, in terms of understanding, maybe a new wayto to build a different mouse trap. You know that someone comes up with an interesting idea. You're like, >> Wow, I >> didn't take that. Yeah, I think that's >> where, like the partnerships we've had with various companies before you go off starting out with Cooper Netease Anything in the Cave Native project last year. And that really took a different way of looking at serve elicit, moving it forward to say, Yeah, this is this is a different way. We thought about how we would do this on Cooper nowadays, even kind of like you abstract that ap I away. And it's like it's just to keep native of survivalists and then Karina use this kind of implementation detail behind that even and So that's really interesting to see things like that. And then also the recent work announcements with Microsoft and the azure functions where people like they maybe, you know, into the event sources there they would make sure that were close. That they're doing the functions are building, are running on Cooper Netease and our communities is is open shift. So it's really kind of completing the life cycle. >> So what if we could just step act, you know, if you talk about communities and open ships specifically, you've got you know, you've got partnership with Google and they've got the geeky and Antos stuff. You've got partnership for the Amazon, you know, they've got a ks, these things, they're not fully seamless and interoperable. It's, you know, I usually hear some confusion in the marketplace as to, you know, communities can run lots of places, but all the various you know, if you choose an implementation well, that your implementation and you should run that everywhere. Not I can't take all the various implementations and they're not inter swappable. So maybe you could help expand on that A little bit is toe, you know what's the goal? Where are we with this maturity here and you know, where do we need it to get? Because, you know, boy, it definitely is a little bit complicated. Least, you know, from the seat that I sit in Yeah. So it's >> somewhat complex, I think, goes back to your early days talking about letting she's like you would say you have an application that could run anywhere. They have Lenox this kind of truth. You know, there's always like certain security settings or packages you have enabled. That just holds true for elected Kuban aged world as well. You can lock it down a certain way. You could open it up a certain way. And so you see a lot of content that's delivered, assuming certain like privileges I have on the system and other systems that don't allow it. And so I think, more and more we see through the standardization something we could study in conformance testing. It really helps people like No, we want our getting in their hands. On an instance. It's really, you know, a full fledged communities or the part that they care about the most is working out well. And so I see that gave me the evil by also see tools that kind of abstract, even more so like a native, is a mentioned sort of survivalist workloads or functions themselves and then even house tool in kind of works. On top of that, like Natively understands the platform, that platform and those requirements to move those applications across the different systems because we have a lot of customers who run open ship communities as well as like many other good bearnaise kind of instances that so they have. We have this requirement to make sure we stay conforming, allow them to make sure the were closer portable, and it's an important part to move forward. So I still think there's a lot of work to be done toe to make these things a smoother processes. It's a lot of interesting things going on, though, >> So any interesting tens with workloads that's one of things we always look at is, you know, um, I just taking the old workloads. Am I doing them in a new place Or, you know, are there new new workloads and anything jumping out at you from customers that you talk to? >> Yes. So the way talk I know I mentioned several See multiple times a whole idea around this auto scaling. And Lou only losing your uplink your resources when you need to is a big deal. So we see a lot more and more of those kind of small function, single purpose things that are occurring up until, like, machine learning. Big data. It just continues. A GPU resource is we talked about running a V EMS and cos when I first heard this, like four years ago, I laughed out loud, and I really don't know. Their seriousness is something that happens. And, yeah, it's becoming mainstream now. So now kind of everything kind of fits within the current. You know, orchestrator of those workloads. >> You're not laughing anymore, right? No. No, because there's someone areas in which your concerns are certainly understandable securities. One of those a lot of attention being paid automation these days, right? And a lot of opportunity there. Is there one, or are there a couple areas where you say this is kind of where we have maybe greener pastures in terms of providing developers with really unusual tools are really more sophisticated, more complex or effective tools than than in any other area where you could use that kind of a boost. >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of things, but one thing that I see in this area is still a lot of fragmentation, like I'm not sure if I see you like this kind of a single way that things work, seeing a lot of great work, like with the Microsoft GS code tooling pieces. And I'm just saying that from an abstraction way to bring certain things together. Nice work going with Microsoft, the committee's plugging for there, and we were collaborating with them on that to extend it for some of the open shift use cases. But that just kind of moves, I think Mohr to beat the developers where they're at and will continue to invest across the different set of tools like I do, the more you keep up with these list of all these tools in the ecosystem. Everytime I present it, someone says, I don't know about those, but here's Maura that I didn't know about it, so this is just continues to grow and people continue to innovate, and I think it just think it's exciting because we continue Teo to evolve it. So I know think there's much in the way of kind of narrowing down on a smaller set of things. I think it's going to continue to expand in the sense. >> Speaking of expansion at Microsoft build yesterday, there was announcement of beloved Taquito K d a. A ce your functions with open shift. Help us parts a little bit. What, what that is. >> Yeah. So what that's about is really taking Thea's your functions and allowing those workloads to Warren on open ship because they're targeted towards Cuba. Netease and, of course, open ship those grenades distribution. So it allows that to happen. There's also that it's a unique auto scaler that kind of allows workload to be more surveillance run. So then also it's it ties into some of the azure event sorts of soul like thee. The message Cuba and bus Kafka that's there. And so now you can wire in yours your pieces, you can run it across here. Either hosted is your or on open shift with those of your function. >> Okay, just to clarify this is today separate from the K Native Initiative that you were talking about earlier. >> Yes, that's right. So this is touching on some of those points and the idea behind this project. This liken early preview announcer was like showing some progress, but they're looking in wiring in some of the chips. Start the kidney of serving pieces to allow running in those applications on open ship, but also the need of events sources. So you can take combination events and triggers your functions and do some of these exciting things. >> Can I ask you, you're doing sessions here at this show? You know how many of the people here you know, talking about survivalists and looking at that bleeding edge or there? There are other technologies that you find them spending a little bit more time in the tooling. It's >> a wide range. I'm really shocked by what some of the customers are like. Bleeding edge Kate made. It was like, Oh, you know, we saw whatever zero dot three release out there with this, and we'd really like this auto scaling capability because we're spending a lot of money running these applications that are not doing anything, So we like the better auto scaler that's out there. The others are really just like trying to understand more about container technology. I was just talking to Jen one early after a session. He's like, This is what we're trying to do. We need to contain your eyes applications. How do I build a CIA pipeline around it? So it's a It's a wide range of things you see here. Well, >> you certainly at the center of this inspiration, the innovation of the industry. I know you're an exciting place, and it's kind of something new every day for you. Probably right. >> Oh, it is. Yeah. Especially when these big conference and announcements come >> out. Gear up, right? Yeah, Exactly. Good job, Steve. Thank you for joining us here. We appreciate the time and wish you well down the road. >> Take me much. Enjoyed being on >> you, Steve Spiker from Red Hat. Joining this here for the first time on the Q. Good to have you, Steve. Good Have you with us as we continue our coverage from Boston. But the Red Hat Summit

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies. And it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here at the Sands Expo in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Stu Miniman, we are joined by Lewie Newcomb he is the Vice President, Server Storage and HCI Engineering Dell EMC. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE >> Thank you. >> For the first time ever. >> For the first time, I'm excited. Very excited about it. >> Yes well we're happy to have you. So we're talking VxFlex and we have not talked a lot about VxFlex on the show, I now you had a segment earlier. Tell us about your news today. >> Okay, well the big news for the show this week is we've launched an appliance. So traditionally we do a rack level product with VxFlex. So we've launched an appliance, so basically, think half-rack without networking. And then we did some updates to our software that we can talk about. And we also still, and we've added some more platforms. So we added the 840 PowerEdge server. So all of our products are on PowerEdge servers. And the 840 with 4-socket, we now have a great platform for SAP HANA. >> So Lewie let's take it back a sec, because VxFlex, there are some new products, but a main piece of this, this was a rebranding of some of the other pieces in the CI and HCI family. So maybe those people that have a little history, if you can help put this into context as to which brands are gone and under this umbrella. >> Yeah, so I'll just start with the new brands. VxFlex is the brand, VxFlex Ready Nodes, VxFlex Appliance is the new product, VxFlex Integrated Rack. VxFlex OS and VxFlex Manager. So a lot of parts there. >> Simplicity. >> Okay. (laughs) >> The naming is very simple and it's easier to talk about. I think a big improvement over our previous brands. And then, I'll go into some of the details. So, I talked about the Appliance, think about new consumption model, little bit smaller chunk there. But we also updated the software, the OS, so the VxFlex OS we added compression in this release, it's VxFlex 3.0 is the revision, it's shipping today. We added compression and we changed the data layout so we actually have higher performance and small granularity and snapshots. So some storage features were added. We also have many new certifications. So I mentioned the SAP HANA, we also have Epic, both VDI and the database. We also have SAS Analytics has a great white paper talking about our product and the benefits of our product. And we're really a performant product. If you think about, it's a pure software SAN And we can also do HCI, we can also combine the software SAN with the HCI we call that two-layers, the way we refer to the software SAN. >> Alright, so this week there's a lot of discussion about VxRail, so maybe use that a touch point for people to understand. VxRail, joint integration between VMware and Dell. VMware Hypervisor, give us a little compare and contrast as to some of those pieces. >> Great question, the VxRail as you said, it's our, integrated in an entire VMware stack. And some great announcements, I love ACE, if you seen the ACE announcement. So the Flex though is a product that's out there because not all customers are in a VMware environment. We also support bare metal. >> Or even if they use VMware they're not 100% VMware. >> Not 100%, and many of our customers actually have both. For high performance databases they might pick Flex. For more general purpose VDI and things they might pick the Rail and so customers as we talk to 'em, they different needs and we have different products for those, so we give them that choice. >> Well, let's actually walk us through a little bit about the VxFlex customer and sort of, so this customer what are their needs and why is VxFlex the choice? >> And you've been doing software defined for a long time so I always see it this way, you start out with a customer that's transforming their business, they want to get into software defined, they want to prepare themselves for the future. Well that's where we start, we're software defined. And the next thing we look at is, do they need performance? Do need they need some one millisecond latency across you know, 50 nodes, 1000 nodes, we can do that. We're very high performance, so that's why I mentioned the databases. And the other things is, we just talked about is that choice they may not want to use just vSphere, they might want to use other hypervisors, so we support those hypervisors. And then the real interesting thing is that two-layer, because as you know with HCI we combine the application and the stored services all on one node. So in our product we can actually separate those, so you can scale storage and compute separately. And it's still all in one storage pool. So it's a very flexible product that fits that kind of customer's needs. >> Okay, simplicity is really one of the key words that we've heard in this whole trend there. It's interesting having had discussion from CI all the way through HCI, some of the software that allows me to manage it, really makes invisible some of those choices. You just said, well HCI was, I can have some choices between the computing storage, but usually they did go in blocks together versus scaling them separately. Can you talk a little bit about the management suite and what that means from a customer administrator and the infrastructure team as to how they look at this spectrum of offerings. >> Sure, so we have the VxFlex Manager, I mentioned that in the beginning, so that manager is starting to automate that management orchestration. So from deployment to serviceability to provisioning, we launched several new features in that, in this current release 3.2 release. So it, more granularity round the service of the drives and things like that. We'll continue to evolve that. You mentioned that you're hearing that, every customer I talked to this week, number one thing we talk about is more automation, more ease of use, so as they're going into software defined, they're all asking for the same thing and we're going to support that with the VxFlex Manager. >> Alright, great so talk a little bit about the application, you talk about high performance environment, one of the things we've been looking in this space especially is, what are some of the new areas, things like containerization, Kubernetes, is this platform that the customer builds ready for that environment and how do we span from kind of what I have and where I'm going. >> Yeah, so we just launched our Kubernetes plugin, the CSI plugin, so we have some customers already testing that beta and because we have bare metal, we can also support that in that native environment, So most customers they are still using that in a virtualization environment. But they're preparing for the future, they're looking at different options, so it gives them that flexibility if they want to go bare metal. >> So you're 15 years at Dell and you've really spent your career in storage and we're talking about the big customer... Customer list of what they want, they want ease of use, they want simplicity, they want speed. >> They want performance. >> They want performance, so what are the kinds of things that you're thinking about for the next year's? >> Yeah well next year, we're still building out some of the storage services. So later in the year we'll add some new storage services, like we just added compression, so our launch this week was compression and we'll add more and more storage services more data protection, more replication. We'll continue in that path, and more and more management. The management is going to be a key area focus for us. >> Right, can you take us inside some of those customer conversations, good excitement, 15,000 people here. I'm sure you've talked to a lot of customers, what are some of the key concerns that are raising to them and what's the feedback you're getting? >> A lot of the customers the reason they want automation is they want to manage their full environment, 'cause remember at the rack level we've integrated the switching. So they want a predictable outcome and when they have drift, when they want to do security updates, that's most of our conversations, they want us to do more and more automation around that. Compliance against the product itself and then when a security patch comes in. And by the way I'll mention the two-layer, another great advantage of two-layer, a lot of times, these security patches come in only on the compute side. So we can do a security patch on the compute side without disrupting the storage pool, so it's a big advantage so that's 90% of the conversations we're having. >> Yeah, maybe touch on one of the big concerns, you talk about, I want that cloud operating model. When I'm running in any of the public clouds, I don't have to think about what version I'm running. The old days of, oh I had to manage it to in the VCE days, it was the compatibility matrix and then the RCM documentation, how are we doing towards getting to that simple push button, you know I take care of it, securities patches come I don't have to worry about scrambling I've got that taken care of. >> That's nirvana, that's our north star. We're working on that and we're using the Flex Manager as that platform and more and more we're taking those requirements in the Flex Manager and we'll be rolling it out. Our goal is to have that one click upgrade right? That one button, our goal is to be able to do compliance and quick updates, and it's a journey. And it's the most complex part as you know, you mentioned, some older products, it's the most complex part of the solution, is keeping that compliance and that performance where you need it. >> So how do you manage that? I mean as you said it's a huge challenge that your company's facing and yet also all your clients are facing too. >> Well luckily we have a lot smart people. (laughs) and we have great customers. The nice thing you know, Dell's direct, the interaction we've had with customers this week, I mean they're designing with us, they're telling us what they need. And we're not a large large scale business in relative to a server business and using computing. So we have relationships with almost all of our customers. And we go and show them our roadmaps, we go get feedback from them, they help us define what they need and we follow our customers. >> Well it's really interesting, because we know that Dell's turning 35 very soon and middle age is the time where you start to get a little more set in your ways, a little older, a little creakier, but what you're describing is this real collaborative relationship with your customers and not sort of this my way or the highway kind of thing. >> I feel I work in a startup, we're agile, we're listening to our customers, we're doing the right things. We're not focused all just on our business, we're focused on our customer outcomes. We made a big ship this year on my product line of talking about the databases and the certifications and we're really trying to help our customers through those decisions without them having to make all those decisions themselves. >> Yeah, what about the consumption model, some of the other product lines we're talking to are going to manage their services as well as moving towards that OPEX model. How's that fit into the VxFlex? >> Yeah, we're not there yet, of course we're going to lead with our Dell Technologies portfolio, We have some great products in that portfolio. But we'll get there over time. Today, you saw the announcements on day one with VMware, Dell EMC and the cloud platforms. We'll continue to build infrastructure, we'll continue to stay in our lane, where we do really really well and the customers love us. But We'll eventually get to different consumption models. >> So tell us a little bit about this show for you. This is not your first rodeo here at Dell Technologies World. >> And I hope and you're seeing this, this feel like we're one big company now right? We've been three years in the making. And coming to Dell Tech this year, I feel like we're one. And Michael's key note was, the first customer I talked to, you know, everything Michael said, resonated so well with me and so it really feels that way. And just the vibe back there and in the solution expo, it's just, you know at level 10. >> Well right, so we're passed the Dell EMC integration point, but the big thing we've been talking about this week is, you know those seven logos up on the banner behind you there are acting like one. So VxRail designed together, sold together. Can you talk a little bit about where do some of the other pieces of the portfolio fit into place. >> Pivotal Cloud Foundry right? Almost all of us are parting with Pivotal Cloud Foundry and building that stack and offering that service to our customer, you know Secureworks RSA, we all need security right? We're all working there too. And even now, so I work in the PowerEdge team, you know, storage product, so we're working, we're taking PowerEdge and putting it everywhere. So all of our data protection products, RSA, our storage products, we're working PowerEdge everywhere and leveraging that. And the beauty about that is you saw the VxRail ACE announcement right? That's a platform, that's a analytics platform that now we can build on and designing PowerEdge. We can put requirements into PowerEdge to make that a much richer telemetry box and really start getting some analytics in that solve some problems, predictive analysis and things like that. So yeah, it's been fun, I've been on the tip of the spear of this, you know, coming from the storage side, and I'm starting to see it really really come together this year, here at this show. >> Alright, so want to give you the final word, VxFlex I know people, if they went through the expo hall they could see it, touch it and the like. For those that didn't make it to the show, what do you want the key takeaway for VxFlex? >> So we're pure software defined, we're very high performance, we're ideal for your databases, we're ideal for scale, we can scale up to 1000 nodes or higher. And we have many many customers doing that. We have running in the show this week, a database running at six nodes over a million IOPS, sub one millisecond latency. So... >> A good note to end on, (laughs) powerful. >> Bang yeah. (laughs) >> Lewie thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, appreciate it, it's been fun. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have so much more of day three of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World coming up in just a little bit. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of Dell Technologies World here in Las Vegas, Nevada, it's a big show, the 10th year that theCUBE is at this show. I'm Rebecca Knight, this is my cohost Stu Miniman. We've got two sets, and joining us now is Matt Liebowitz. He is the global lead multicloud infrastructure at Dell Technologies, thank you for returning to theCUBE. >> Yeah, like I was saying before we came on, I've been a fan of the show for years so it's great to actually be on it for once. >> Well, welcome. >> Well, for twice. (Rebecca laughing) We're going to talk about the stresses of cloud sprawl right now. And there're so many different possibilities, solutions. It's a multicloud world. How do you even make sense of it all, and how do you help customers make sense of it? >> Well, I think the first thing that we typically do is just try to get customers to understand what they have. You know, they've got workloads in private cloud, they've got workloads in public cloud, and we try to do an analysis, figure out what's where, what's the best fit, what cloud is most appropriate for each application, and then just build a plan to build that infrastructure and get them where they need to be. >> Matt, I love that, and I want to hear what you're seeing from customers, 'cause when we look at it, and we hear what's described is really, when we talk about HyperCloud, and when we talk about multicloud it's, I have a bunch of pieces and it wasn't necessarily a key strategy. The customer was just like oh, I'm doing cloud stuff all over the place, and in many ways we've got the silos that we've spent the decade or so trying to get rid of even more. So how do we help get their arms around it? There're so many different layers of the solution, to make this innovative and a wholesome solution rather than just, oh my Gosh, I've got the things all over here and I'm spinning plates, as a company. >> Right, I think you said it. The most common thing we see from customers when they say, I'm doing multicloud, is they're actually using more than one cloud, but that's really multicloud. You really need to tie it together with a cloud management platform, something that can bring all the pieces together that's API enabled, that's you know, they can programmatically access resources. So when customers tell us they've got multicloud, but they're really consuming something in Azure and something in AWS, they've just like you said Stu, just created more IT silos, and so we're trying to get away from that. They can use all those clouds but wrap it together on that common control plane, so you can understand your estate and actually manage it and consume it. >> So it sounds as though customers, I mean we're sort of painting this picture of customers really, really at a loose end here. I mean, how would you describe the customer mindset today? I mean, obviously some customers have a strategy and know exactly where they're going, but the vast majority really don't. >> I think most customers are responding, and the needs of the business are changing. They need need to respond more quickly, and so they just consume cloud resources as they can. And that often leads, like you said Stu, due to the sprawl. And so again, like we try to just wrap it together. Do an analysis, figure out what's out there, and help them not only understand where the application should live, but wrap an operating model around it so they can start consuming it properly. Understand what they're going to advertise in their service catalogs. So Matt, one of the reasons I loved him to talk to into consulting people, is you're not trying to push a product. It's like, certain ones it's like okay, management's really important, but we understand as an industry we're never going to get to that mythical single pane of glass. So is there a framework, is there maturity model? How are you measuring where they are, and how to move them gently along? I guess the journey is what we've said to kind of a holistic solution of that. >> Yeah I mean there's tons of, we take what analysts do. We also have our own studies and indexes all the way starting from what we kind of digital laggards all the way to the digital leaders. And what we found is actually most of the customers are either laggards or they're just starting out. Maybe they've made some loose investments, but they haven't walked the path that far. And so it's like you said earlier, there's stuff kind of everywhere. Customers don't often know where to start, but I think they're responding to the needs of the business. I don't think it's anything that they're doing that's wrong, but it's a little bit of the Wild West for sure. >> So what best practices have emerged when you're talking about the digital leader versus the digital laggards? You said they've made some investments. They have an idea of where they want to be. What're some of the other things that you've seen that really separates them from the pack? >> Yeah well, so I'm going to be a consultant just like you said, and it's all about business value and business outcome. The customers are the most successful. Have a business reason for what they're trying to do. They're not going to public cloud because Gartner said they should. They're doing it because they know they're going to get an outcome. They're going to be able to go into new markets or operate faster, deploy applications faster, things like that. And those are the ones that are further down the line, that I would say the ones that are the laggards are the ones that are just sort of peaking under the covers of what they should do. They're just starting out, they've got some workloads in multiple clouds and they need to get a handle on it, but they're just starting. >> All right, so in the keynote this morning there's a lot of talk about cloud. VMware is at the center of the strategy there, but partnering with a lot of different players out there, of course AWS wasn't talked on the stage much this morning, but we know how important that is in the VMware environment. And Microsoft was up on today. How do these new announcements fit into the discussions that you'll be having with customers? >> You know I think, customers need in a lot of ways, I hate to say it, but also an easy button for cloud. If they, often when they try to build it themselves, they bring the components together themselves, it's really difficult to do that integration work. And like you said Stu, I'm in consulting so we're all about the outcome. But this product is Dell Technology's cloud, I think is going to help accelerate for us in consulting so that they can quickly get to a state where they have a functional cloud they can start consuming. And then we can help them with the day two, to actually drive business value, consumption of the cloud and that sort of thing. But yeah I mean, I think VMware's doing a great job of reading the landscape and understanding that people are consuming AWS, they're consuming Azure. And VMware owns the data center, I think that's crystal clear. So they need to work with what the customers are using today, and I think they're doing a really nice job of that. >> I'm curious as a consultant how you are helping companies really implement these new things, because as we know, digital transformation doesn't really have anything to do with the technology. It's really about getting employees onboard and customers onboard, and thinking differently about how they get their jobs done. So how are you helping your customers think through these things? >> Yep, so we have a framework on how we approach these for multicloud and for lots of other things, where we use a methodology that we call kind of as is to be, where we kind of determine their current state, project where they're going to be in the future, build a roadmap that's actually actionable. But then I think what differentiates the methodology is we tie it to a business case. We tie it to an outcome and a financial outcome, so that executives and IT leaders can see that this is not just another IT project. They're going to get true value out of it. We build a roadmap pretty quick in three to six weeks. That's actually actionable, we build consensus, and that's how we get started. >> All right, Matt are you doing some sessions here at the show this week? >> I did one bright and early at 8:30 this morning. >> All right, love to hear about it, especially any good questions from customers. >> Yeah, so my sessions are on migrating workloads to modern data centers. So I think the way I started that was just hey, let's define the modern data center. And I said kind of, quick show of hands, who thinks your modern data center ends with the four walls of your infrastructure? And thankfully not many people raised their hands, because the modern data center is composed of your on-premise's resources, whether that's private or hybrid, but also public. So I think a lot of the questions that I've got is just how do I get there? How do I convince IT leaders to buy into this? And that's, like I said, we use our methodology to build consensus and help them get there. >> I'm curious, when you talk about the modernization, what's the role of data in there? >> Say it one more time. >> Data, how does that fit into the cloud strategy overall? >> Well, a data's another service. One of the things we've started to look at, is we talk about infrastructure as a service and platform as a service, is big data as a service, as an application that you can build into your cloud and then automatic it and orchestrate it just like anything else. So when customers or end users need to consume a data lake or something like that, they can do so using the same tools that's in frameworks that they do for other resources. >> When you're thinking about the challenges that customers face today and sort of looking ahead in terms of what you see are the future challenges, what is it that keeps you up at night? >> Ah, future, you know, cloud sprawl. The way we started this keeps me up at night because when every, and I talked to customer this morning actually, who was talking about their yearly Azure or yearly AWS spend, and the numbers were staggering and they're getting higher and higher. And at this point it's not shadow IT, this is IT leadership saying we want to drive more and more to the cloud, and they think it's quick and it's easy, and you can take your credit card and do it. But a lot of IT is not prepared to operate as a kind of OpEx instead of CapEx, and so this is a big change for him. And that's what keeps me, that's what gets me worried, is that in consulting when we come in really late to that conversation, and they're already consuming millions and millions of dollars a year in AWS or Azure services. It can be hard to right that ship. It can be hard to say okay, that's fine, you've made that investment, but let's look at what makes sense to run on premises. Let's look at what makes sense to run in different kinds of clouds and do it at an application level. >> All right, what other things at the show this week? You've been to the show for a number of years. What's exciting you, what're some of the conversations you're already hearing? So as cloud person for me, where I focus on multicloud, the announcements today were really exciting, specifically I'm kind of interested in your opinions too on the Dell EMC cloud, or the VMware cloud on Dell EMC. I think giving customers the option to consume cloud in a way that is just like public cloud, but using the same tool sets and frameworks they've been using for years, I think is compelling. You know, Virtustream has proved that that works, that that model works. And so I'm excited about that, although I'm kind of interested in your opinion, what others have said on that. >> Yeah so actually, if you listen to the keynote analysis we did this morning I'll do, but I'll frame it back as a question for you to get your thing. >> Well done. (Matt and Rebecca laughing) >> It's our show, you're not allowed to ask us questions. Chad tried to do that once. But so when the VMware and AWS partnership happened, the question we all had as industry watchers was oh my gosh, what does that mean for Dell? I feel today really started to answer that. I'm curious how you position it with customers. I'm sure you must be getting the question from customers being like, on the Dell EMC side, hey VMware and Amazon, where do you guys fit in this whole puzzle? >> Yeah, well it's funny. Someone made a comment today that the keynote today sort of answered the question of who won the Hypervisor awards? They're over, at this point I think we've conceded VMware has won that battle. And so when you think about VMware partnering with something like Amazon, to me and to Microsoft too form the announcement today, it makes perfect sense because customers that have large investments in on-premise's VMware deployments, it's a lot of work to convert that to something like a public cloud in Amazon or in Azure. So to be able to consume public cloud using AWS services on the network so it's operating at LAN speeds, but doing it with the same tools I think is compelling. So to customers that say, does this compete with you? Does this compete with Dell? I say no, this is part of the story. Multicloud is all about bringing pieces together in a common framework that we can consume all together, so. Now that doesn't concern me at all, but well done reflecting it back to me. >> (laughs) That's his specialty. >> He's been doing this a long time. >> Yeah, this is not his first rodeo. Matt Liebowitz, thank you so much for coming on the theCUBE. It was great having you. >> Thank you, appreciate it. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, first Stu Miniman. We will have so much more of theCUBE's live coverage of Dell's World Technologies coming up just after this. (relaxing music)

>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud next nineteen Rodeo by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. And we hear it. Mosconi Center, Google Cloud. Next twenty nineteen. Hashtag Google. Next nineteen. I'm Dave, along with my co host student, Amanda's Day two for us. Anthony Lives here. Senior vice president, general manager of the Cloud Data Services Business Unit That net app Cuba Lawman Louis Versi. Who's senior cloud engineer at Cloud Health. Gentlemen. Welcome, Cardinal. Help that I got cloud in the brain. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thank you much for coming on, Luis. Let's start with you. Uh, a little bit about Cardinal Health. What you guys air are all about. Tell us about the business. Sure. >> Uh, Cardinal Health is a global supply chain medical products services company. We service hospitals, pharmacies throughout the world. We're drivers are delivering cost effective solutions to our two patients right throughout the world. >> Awesome. We're gonna get into that, Anthony, you've been in the Cube a couple times here almost a year since we were last at this show. it's grown quite a bit. Good thing Mosconi is new and improved. He's got all these new customers here. Give us the update. On what? Look back a year, What's transpired? One of the highlights for you. >> Open it up. You know, we've achieved a tremendous amount. I mean, you know, we were a Google partner of the year, which was quite nice. Wasn't even award for the hard work? You know, we have a very special relationship with Google. We actually engineer directly into the Google console, our services that their products that are sold by Google, which gives us a very unique value proposition. We just keep adding, you know, we have more services and we had more regions on. We continue to sort of differentiate the basic services that that customers are now using for secondary workloads and increasingly very large primary work. Look all >> right, we're going to get into it and learn more about the partnership. But but thinking about what's going on, a cardinal health question for you, Lewis is one of the drivers in your business that are affecting your technology strategy and how you're dealing with those. >> Sure, there's a few things on. I'm sure this is the same in many industries, right? We're facing cost pressures. We need to deliver solutions at a lower cost than we have been in the past. We need to move faster. We need to have agility to be able to respond to changes in the market place. So on Prem doesn't didn't give us a lot of that flexibility to turn those lovers in any of those three areas that those three things have really driven our push into the cloud. All >> right, Louis, let let's dig into that a little bit. You could kind of Do you still have on Prem as part of your solution way? Still have >> some eso We've been working over the past two years to my great work loads out of our data center into the cloud. We're about eighty percent of the way there. There's gonna be some workloads. I Siri's doesn't run in the cloud. Very well. You know, we've got Cem >> Way. Were just joking about that earlier today. Yes, yes, yes. Lots of things. But in the back corner somewhere, I've got that icier running or the day working on that Anthony way. >> Blessed with blessed. You know, this is a customer of ours, and way enabled him to run some, you know, pretty heavy on Prem workloads that required NFS can now run, you know, production on Google clouds. So >> yeah, and you're basically trying to make that experience Seamus Wright A cz muchas. You can wait. Talk about that. That partnership with Google, What are the challenges that you guys are tryingto tackle? I'm just going to refer to your >> question. I mean, you know, what we see is that there's a sort of a pivot with the clouds that traditional i t people thought horizontally and they try and sort of you had a storage team and you had a security team and you had a networking team in the cloud. It's sort of pivots ninety degrees, and you have people who don't work clothes on the workload. People are experts in every single thing, and so they go to the cloud, assuming that the cloud itself will take care of a lot of that problem for So we worked with Google and we built a service. We didn't We didn't build it for a storage guy tow, configure. And you know it undo the bolts and nuts way built it like dial tone. That there is. The NFS is always on in Google Cloud and you come and provisioned an end point and you just tell us how much capacity you want and how much performance. And that's it. It takes about eight seconds to establish a volume in Ghoul Cloud that may take through, you know, trouble tickets, and I t capital purchases about six months to do. >> Yeah, Anthony. Actually, one of my favorite interviews last year is I talked to Dave Hits at your event, and he talked about when we first started building it. We build something that storage people would love, and you shot him down and said, No, no, no, This needs to be a cloud first Clouds absolution. Louis, I want to poke at you. You actually said Price is a main driver for cloud agility. Absolutely. But bring this inside a little bit. I know you're speaking at the show a year. You know, people always say, it's like, Hey, you know, cloud isn't easy. Is it cheap? Well, you know, Devil's in the details there. So would love to hear your experience there. And you know how you know less expensive translates in your world? Sure. >> So when we were looking for something, we tried to get away from Nasim. We're moving to the cloud and we just can't do it right There's way have a lot of cots, applications, a lot of processes that you just have to have known as right and we're looking for something Is Anthony described that with a click of a button are developers Khun spin up their own storage. The price point was lower than then. Frankly, you could get just provisioning the type of disk that you need in the cloud fur, and that was acceptable for most of our workloads. The the the ability to tear right. There's through three classes of storage and in the cloud volume services. Most of our workloads are running on the standard tear, but we've got some workloads where they've got higher performance and we provisioned them right on the standard. And when that you're doing, they're testing like, hey, we need a little bit more with a click of a button there at a higher tier of storage. No downtime, no restarting, no moving storage. It's I just worked. So the cost, the agility were getting all of that out of the solution to >> manage those laces, that sort of, ah, sort of automated way or you sort of monitoring things. And what's the process for for managing, which slays the slaves on the different tiers of storage. If >> we provide him, Yeah, we're not. We're not money for s. >> So it's all automated. >> Run it. And we stand by guarantees throughput guarantees on we take the pain away. You know, I always like to say, you know, what people want to do in the public cloud is innovate, not administrator. And generally, you know. So when when people say clouds cheaper, it's because I think they've decided that they're better use of the dollar is in application development, data science, and then they can retire people and put application developers into the business. So what ghoul does, I think incredibly well as it has infrastructure to remove the sort of the legacy barrier and the traditional stuff. And then it has this wonderful new innovation that, you know, maybe a few companies in the world could decide could use it. But most people couldn't afford to put TP use or GP use in their data center, so they know he was really two very strong Valley proposition. >> And maybe what they're saying is when they say the cloud is cheaper, maybe is better are why I'm spending money elsewhere. That's give me a better return. >> I do things that make you different. Not the same, right, >> right, right. So storage strategy. I mean, I'm sure there should be such a thing anymore. Work illustrated back in the day when used to work A DMC was II by AMC for Block Net out for file Things have changed in terms of how you run a strategy. Think about your business. So what is your strategy when you think about infrastructure and storage and workloads? >> So we really don't want to have to focus on an infrastructure strategy, right? Right now we're mostly running traditional workloads in the cloud running on PM's. We're working towards getting a lot of work loads into geeky, using that service and in Google Cloud platform, >> so can you just step back for a second? How do you end up on Google? Why'd you choose them versus some of the alternative out there. >> So we started our cloud journey a couple of years ago. Started out with really the main cloud player in town, like most people have. Um, and about a year in, not all of our needs were being met. You know, they that company entered decided to enter our business segment. S O, you know, starts asking some questions. People start asking some questions there. So that prompted us to do an r f p to try to see technologically really, were we on the right cloud cloud platform? And we compared the top three cloud providers and ended up on GP from a technological decision, not just a business decision. It gave us the ability to have a top level organization where we could provisioned projects to application teams. They could work autonomously within those projects, but we still had a shared VPC, a shared network where we could put Enterprise Guard rails in place to protect the company. >> Dominic Price was on earlier with Google and he was saying some nice things about net happened. I'd like to hear your perspective is why Ned App What's unique about Nana. What's so special about net app in the cloud. Sure, a few of the >> things that Anthony talked about were really differentiators for us. We didn't have to go sign a Pio with another company, and we didn't need to commit to a certain amount of storage. We didn't need to build our own infrastructure. Even in the cloud, the service was just there. You do a little bit of up front, set up to connect your networking and weaken prevision storage whenever we want. We can change the speed the through. Put that we're getting on that storage at any point in time. We congrats. That storage with no downtime. Those are all things that were really different and other solutions that were out there. >> I mean, it's interesting infrastructure. Tio was really still even in a cloud. It's kind of like a bunch of Lego blocks on what we always said it was. You know, people want to buy the pirate ship, you know, they don't want to, like, have to dig in all these bins. And so we sort of said, Let's build storage, Kind of like a pirate ship that you just know that the end result is a pirate ship and I don't have to understand how to pick a ll Those pieces. Someone's done that for me. So, you know, we're really trying, Teo. I was I'd say we like to create easy buns. You know, people just hit the easy button and go. Someone else is going to make sure it's there. Someone else is going to make sure it performs. I am just a consumer off it, >> Anthony Wave talkto you and Ned app. You play across all the major cloud providers out there and you've got opinion when it comes to Kerber Netease, Help! Help! Help! Give us the you know where what you think about what you've heard this weekend. Google. You know, I think how they differentiate themselves in the market. >> You know, I think it's great, you know, that Google, I think open source community. So I think that was a ninja stry changing event. And, you know, I think community's really starts to redefine application development. I think portability is obviously a big thing with it, But But for an application, developer of the V. M. Was something that somebody added afterwards, and it was sort of like, Oh, no way overboard infrastructure. So now we'Ll virtual eyes it But the cost of virtual izing things was so expensive, you know, you put a no s in a V m and communities was, was built and was sort of attracted to the developer. And so the developers are coding and re factoring, and I just You just look around now and you just see the ground swell on Cuban cnc f is here, and the contributions that were being made to communities are astonishing. It's it's reached a scale way bigger than Lennox. The amount of innovation that's going into cos I think is unstoppable. Now it's it's going to be the standard if it isn't already >> Well, Louis, I'd love you to expand. You said it sounded like you moved to the cloud first, but now you're going down that application modernization, you know, how does Cooper Netease fit into that? And what what other pieces? Because it's changing the applications and get me the long pole in the tent and modernization. So >> cardinal took the approach of we need to get everything into the cloud. And then we can begin modernizing our applications because if we tried to modernize everything up front, would take us ten to fifteen years to get to the cloud, and we couldn't afford to do that. So lifting and shifting machines was about seventy eighty percent of our migration to the cloud. What we're looking at now is modern, modernizing some of her applications R E commerce solution will be will be running on Cooper. Nettie is very shortly on DH will be taking other workloads there in the future. That's definitely the next step. The next evolution >> Okuda Cloud or multi Cloud? That is the question way >> are multi cloud. There are, you know, certain needs that can only be met in certain clouds, right? So Google Cloud is our primary cloud provider. But we're also also using Amazon for specific >> workloads and used net up across those clouds erect. Okay, so is that What's that like? Is that nap experience across clouds so still coming together? Is it sort of highly similar? What's experience like? >> So it's it's using that app in both solutions is the same. I think there's some stuff that we're looking forward to, that where where things will be tied together a little bit more and >> that brings me to the road map Question. That's Please get your best people working on that. >> Oh, yeah. No, no. I mean, I So, look, I think storages that sort of wonderful business because, you know, data is heavy, it's hard, it doesn't like to be moved, and it needs to be managed. It's It's the primary asset of your business these days. So So we have we have, you know, we released continuously new features onto the service. So, you know, we've got full S and B nfs support routing an FSB four support routing a backup service. We're integrating NFS into communities, which is a very frequently asked response. A lot of companies developers want to build ST collapse and Block has a real problem when the container failed. NFS doesn't So we're almost seeing a renaissance with communities and NFS So So you know, we just we subscribe to that constant innovation and we'll just continue to build out mohr and more services that that allow I think cloud customers to, as I said, to sort of spend their time innovating while we take care of the administration for them >> two thousand six to floor. And I wrote a manifesto on storage is a service. Yeah, I didn't know it. Take this long, but I'm glad you got there. Last question, Lewis. Cool stuff. You working on fun projects? What's floating your boat these days? >> My time these days is, uh, the cloud. As I said, we went to the cloud for cost for cost savings. You can spend more money than you anticipate in the cloud. I know it's a shocker. So that's one of the things that I'm focusing our efforts on right now is making sure that way. Keep those costs under control. Still deliver the speed and agility. But keep an eye on those things >> that they put a bow on. Google next twenty nineteen. Partner of the year. That's awesome. Congratulations. Thank >> you. Uh, you know, I would say, you know, to put in a bone it's great to see Thomas again. You know, I went to Thomas that Oracle for about six and a half years. He's an incredibly bright man on DH. I think he's going to do a lot of really good things for Google. As you know, I work for his twin brother, George on DH. They are insanely bright people and really fun to work with. So for me, it was great to come up here and see Thomas and I shook hands when we won the award, and it was kind of too really was like, you know, we're both in a Google event. >> Yeah, it was fun. I'm gonna make an observation. I was saying the studio in the Kino today. They were both Patriots fans. So Bill Bala check. He has progeny. Coaches leave. They try to be him. It just doesn't work. Thomas Curie is not trying to be Larry. I'm sure they, you know, share a lot of the same technical philosophies and cellphone. But he's got his own way of doing things in his own style. So I really it's >> a great Haifa. Google great >> really is. Hey, guys, Thanks so much for coming to the cure. Thank you. Keep right, everybody Day Volante with student meant John Furry is also in the house. We're here. Google Next twenty nineteen, Google Cloud next week Right back. Right after this short break