>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr. This is breaking analysis with Dave Ante. >>Have you ever been driving on the highway and traffic suddenly slows way down and then after a little while it picks up again and you're cruising along and you're thinking, Okay, hey, that was weird. But it's clear sailing now. Off we go, only to find out in a bit that the traffic is building up ahead again, forcing you to pump the brakes as the traffic pattern ebbs and flows well. Welcome to the Seesaw economy. The fed induced fire that prompted an unprecedented rally in tech is being purposefully extinguished now by that same fed. And virtually every sector of the tech industry is having to reset its expectations, including the cloud segment. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by etr. In this breaking analysis will review the implications of the earnings announcements from the big three cloud players, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google who announced this week. >>And we'll update you on our quarterly IAS forecast and share the latest from ETR with a focus on cloud computing. Now, before we get into the new data, we wanna review something we shared with you on October 14th, just a couple weeks back, this is sort of a, we told you it was coming slide. It's an XY graph that shows ET R'S proprietary net score methodology on the vertical axis. That's a measure of spending momentum, spending velocity, and an overlap or presence in the dataset that's on the X axis. That's really a measure of pervasiveness. In the survey, the table, you see that table insert there that shows Wiki Bond's Q2 estimates of IAS revenue for the big four hyperscalers with their year on year growth rates. Now we told you at the time, this is data from the July TW 22 ETR survey and the ETR hadn't released its October survey results at that time. >>This was just a couple weeks ago. And while we couldn't share the specific data from the October survey, we were able to get a glimpse and we depicted the slowdown that we saw in the October data with those dotted arrows kind of down into the right, we said at the time that we were seeing and across the board slowdown even for the big three cloud vendors. Now, fast forward to this past week and we saw earnings releases from Alphabet, Microsoft, and just last night Amazon. Now you may be thinking, okay, big deal. The ETR survey data didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know. But judging from the negative reaction in the stock market to these earnings announcements, the degree of softness surprised a lot of investors. Now, at the time we didn't update our forecast, it doesn't make sense for us to do that when we're that close to earning season. >>And now that all the big three ha with all the big four with the exception of Alibaba have announced we've, we've updated. And so here's that data. This chart lays out our view of the IS and PAs worldwide revenue. Basically it's cloud infrastructure with an attempt to exclude any SaaS revenue so we can make an apples to apples comparison across all the clouds. Now the reason that actual is in quotes is because Microsoft and Google don't report IAS revenue, but they do give us clues and kind of directional commentary, which we then triangulate with other data that we have from the channel and ETR surveys and just our own intelligence. Now the second column there after the vendor name shows our previous estimates for q3, and then next to that we show our actuals. Same with the growth rates. And then we round out the chart with that lighter blue color highlights, the full year estimates for revenue and growth. >>So the key takeaways are that we shaved about $4 billion in revenue and roughly 300 basis points of growth off of our full year estimates. AWS had a strong July but exited Q3 in the mid 20% growth rate year over year. So we're using that guidance, you know, for our Q4 estimates. Azure came in below our earlier estimates, but Google actually exceeded our expectations. Now the compression in the numbers is in our view of function of the macro demand climate, we've made every attempt to adjust for constant currency. So FX should not be a factor in this data, but it's sure you know that that ma the the, the currency effects are weighing on those companies income statements. And so look, this is the fundamental dynamic of a cloud model where you can dial down consumption when you need to and dial it up when you need to. >>Now you may be thinking that many big cloud customers have a committed level of spending in order to get better discounts. And that's true. But what's happening we think is they'll reallocate that spend toward, let's say for example, lower cost storage tiers or they may take advantage of better price performance processors like Graviton for example. That is a clear trend that we're seeing and smaller companies that were perhaps paying by the drink just on demand, they're moving to reserve instance models to lower their monthly bill. So instead of taking the easy way out and just spending more companies are reallocating their reserve capacity toward lower cost. So those sort of lower cost services, so they're spending time and effort optimizing to get more for, for less whereas, or get more for the same is really how we should, should, should phrase it. Whereas during the pandemic, many companies were, you know, they perhaps were not as focused on doing that because business was booming and they had a response. >>So they just, you know, spend more dial it up. So in general, as they say, customers are are doing more with, with the same. Now let's look at the growth dynamic and spend some time on that. I think this is important. This data shows worldwide quarterly revenue growth rates back to Q1 2019 for the big four. So a couple of interesting things. The data tells us during the pandemic, you saw both AWS and Azure, but the law of large numbers and actually accelerate growth. AWS especially saw progressively increasing growth rates throughout 2021 for each quarter. Now that trend, as you can see is reversed in 2022 for aws. Now we saw Azure come down a bit, but it's still in the low forties in terms of percentage growth. While Google actually saw an uptick in growth this last quarter for GCP by our estimates as GCP is becoming an increasingly large portion of Google's overall cloud business. >>Now, unfortunately Google Cloud continues to lose north of 850 million per quarter, whereas AWS and Azure are profitable cloud businesses even though Alibaba is suffering its woes from China. And we'll see how they come in when they report in mid-November. The overall hyperscale market grew at 32% in Q3 in terms of worldwide revenue. So the slowdown isn't due to the repatriation or competition from on-prem vendors in our view, it's a macro related trend. And cloud will continue to significantly outperform other sectors despite its massive size. You know, on the repatriation point, it just still doesn't show up in the data. The A 16 Z article from Sarah Wong and Martin Martin Kasa claiming that repatriation was inevitable as a means to lower cost of good sold for SaaS companies. You know, while that was thought provoking, it hasn't shown up in the numbers. And if you read the financial statements of both AWS and its partners like Snowflake and you dig into the, to the, to the quarterly reports, you'll see little notes and comments with their ongoing negotiations to lower cloud costs for customers. >>AWS and no doubt execs at Azure and GCP understand that the lifetime value of a customer is worth much more than near term gross margin. And you can expect the cloud vendors to strike a balance between profitability, near term profitability anyway and customer attention. Now, even though Google Cloud platform saw accelerated growth, we need to put that in context for you. So GCP, by our estimate, has now crossed over the $3 billion for quarter market actually did so last quarter, but its growth rate accelerated to 42% this quarter. And so that's a good sign in our view. But let's do a quick little comparison with when AWS and Azure crossed the $3 billion mark and compare their growth rates at the time. So if you go back to to Q2 2016, as we're showing in this chart, that's around the time that AWS hit 3 billion per quarter and at the same time was growing at 58%. >>Azure by our estimates crossed that mark in Q4 2018 and at that time was growing at 67%. Again, compare that to Google's 42%. So one would expect Google's growth rate would be higher than its competitors at this point in the MO in the maturity of its cloud, which it's, you know, it's really not when you compared to to Azure. I mean they're kind of con, you know, comparable now but today, but, but you'll go back, you know, to that $3 billion mark. But more so looking at history, you'd like to see its growth rate at this point of a maturity model at least over 50%, which we don't believe it is. And one other point on this topic, you know, my business friend Matt Baker from Dell often says it's not a zero sum game, meaning there's plenty of opportunity exists to build value on top of hyperscalers. >>And I would totally agree it's not a dollar for dollar swap if you can continue to innovate. But history will show that the first company in makes the most money. Number two can do really well and number three tends to break even. Now maybe cloud is different because you have Microsoft software estate and the power behind that and that's driving its IAS business and Google ads are funding technology buildouts for, for for Google and gcp. So you know, we'll see how that plays out. But right now by this one measurement, Google is four years behind Microsoft in six years behind aws. Now to the point that cloud will continue to outpace other markets, let's, let's break this down a bit in spending terms and see why this claim holds water. This is data from ET r's latest October survey that shows the granularity of its net score or spending velocity metric. >>The lime green is new adoptions, so they're adding the platform, the forest green is spending more 6% or more. The gray bars spending is flat plus or minus, you know, 5%. The pinkish colors represent spending less down 6% or worse. And the bright red shows defections or churn of the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get what's called net score, which is that blue dot that you can see on each of the bars. So what you see in the table insert is that all three have net scores above 40%, which is a highly elevated measure. Microsoft's net scores above 60% AWS well into the fifties and GCP in the mid forties. So all good. Now what's happening with all three is more customers are keep keeping their spending flat. So a higher percentage of customers are saying, our spending is now flat than it was in previous quarters and that's what's accounting for the compression. >>But the churn of all three, even gcp, which we reported, you know, last quarter from last quarter survey was was five x. The other two is actually very low in the single digits. So that might have been an anomaly. So that's a very good sign in our view. You know, again, customers aren't repatriating in droves, it's just not a trend that we would bet on, maybe makes for a FUD or you know, good marketing head, but it's just not a big deal. And you can't help but be impressed with both Microsoft and AWS's performance in the survey. And as we mentioned before, these companies aren't going to give up customers to try and preserve a little bit of gross margin. They'll do what it takes to keep people on their platforms cuz they'll make up for it over time with added services and improved offerings. >>Now, once these companies acquire a customer, they'll be very aggressive about keeping them. So customers take note, you have negotiating leverage, so use it. Okay, let's look at another cut at the cloud market from the ETR data set. Here's the two dimensional view, again, it's back, it's one of our favorites. Net score or spending momentum plotted against presence. And the data set, that's the x axis net score on the, on the vertical axis, this is a view of et r's cloud computing sector sector. You can see we put that magic 40% dotted red line in the table showing and, and then that the table inserts shows how the data are plotted with net score against presence. I e n in the survey, notably only the big three are above the 40% line of the names that we're showing here. The oth there, there are others. >>I mean if you put Snowflake on there, it'd be higher than any of these names, but we'll dig into that name in a later breaking analysis episode. Now this is just another way of quantifying the dominance of AWS and Azure, not only relative to Google, but the other cloud platforms out there. So we've, we've taken the opportunity here to plot IBM and Oracle, which both own a public cloud. Their performance is largely a reflection of them migrating their install bases to their respective public clouds and or hybrid clouds. And you know, that's fine, they're in the game. That's a point that we've made, you know, a number of times they're able to make it through the cloud, not whole and they at least have one, but they simply don't have the business momentum of AWS and Azure, which is actually quite impressive because AWS and Azure are now as large or larger than IBM and Oracle. >>And to show this type of continued growth that that that Azure and AWS show at their size is quite remarkable and customers are starting to recognize the viability of on-prem hi, you know, hybrid clouds like HPE GreenLake and Dell's apex. You know, you may say, well that's not cloud, but if the customer thinks it is and it was reporting in the survey that it is, we're gonna continue to report this view. You know, I don't know what's happening with H P E, They had a big down tick this quarter and I, and I don't read too much into that because their end is still pretty small at 53. So big fluctuations are not uncommon with those types of smaller ends, but it's over 50. So, you know, we did notice a a a negative within a giant public and private sector, which is often a, a bellwether giant public private is big public companies and large private companies like, like a Mars for example. >>So it, you know, it looks like for HPE it could be an outlier. We saw within the Fortune 1000 HPE E'S cloud looked actually really good and it had good spending momentum in that sector. When you di dig into the industry data within ETR dataset, obviously we're not showing that here, but we'll continue to monitor that. Okay, so where's this Leave us. Well look, this is really a tactical story of currency and macro headwinds as you can see. You know, we've laid out some of the points on this slide. The action in the stock market today, which is Friday after some of the soft earnings reports is really robust. You know, we'll see how it ends up in the day. So maybe this is a sign that the worst is over, but we don't think so. The visibility from tech companies is murky right now as most are guiding down, which indicates that their conservative outlook last quarter was still too optimistic. >>But as it relates to cloud, that platform is not going anywhere anytime soon. Sure, there are potential disruptors on the horizon, especially at the edge, but we're still a long ways off from, from the possibility that a new economic model emerges from the edge to disrupt the cloud and the opportunities in the cloud remain strong. I mean, what other path is there? Really private cloud. It was kind of a bandaid until the on-prem guys could get their a as a service models rolled out, which is just now happening. The hybrid thing is real, but it's, you know, defensive for the incumbents until they can get their super cloud investments going. Super cloud implying, capturing value above the hyperscaler CapEx, you know, call it what you want multi what multi-cloud should have been, the metacloud, the Uber cloud, whatever you like. But there are opportunities to play offense and that's clearly happening in the cloud ecosystem with the likes of Snowflake, Mongo, Hashi Corp. >>Hammer Spaces is a startup in this area. Aviatrix, CrowdStrike, Zeke Scaler, Okta, many, many more. And even the projects we see coming out of enterprise players like Dell, like with Project Alpine and what Pure Storage is doing along with a number of other of the backup vendors. So Q4 should be really interesting, but the real story is the investments that that companies are making now to leverage the cloud for digital transformations will be paying off down the road. This is not 1999. We had, you know, May might have had some good ideas and admittedly at a lot of bad ones too, but you didn't have the infrastructure to service customers at a low enough cost like you do today. The cloud is that infrastructure and so far it's been transformative, but it's likely the best is yet to come. Okay, let's call this a rap. >>Many thanks to Alex Morrison who does production and manages the podcast. Also Can Schiffman is our newest edition to the Boston Studio. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Ho is our editor in chief over@siliconangle.com, who does some wonderful editing for us. Thank you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wiki bond.com at silicon angle.com. And you can email me at David dot valante@siliconangle.com or DM me at Dante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do checkout etr.ai. They got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>Welcome to the cubes, continuing coverage of AWS reinvent 2021. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. We are running one of the industry's most important and largest hybrid tech events of the year. This year with AWS and its ecosystem partners. We have two life studios, two remote studios, and over 100 guests. So stick around as we talk about the next 10 years of cloud innovation, I'm very excited to be joined by another Lisa from Zscaler. Lisa Lorenzen is here with me, the field CTO for the Americas. She's here to talk about ZScaler's mission to make doing business and navigating change a simpler, faster, and more productive experience. Lisa, welcome to the program. >>Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. >>So let's talk about Zscaler in AWS. Talk to me about the partnership, what you guys are doing together. >>Yeah, definitely. Z scaler is a strategic security ISV partner with AWS. So we provide AWS customers with zero trust, secure remote access to AWS, and this can improve their security posture as well as their user experience with AWS. These scaler recently announced that we are the first and only cloud security service to achieve the FedRAMP PI authorization to operate. And that FedRAMP ZPA service is built on AWS gov cloud. ZScaler's also an AWS marketplace seller where our customers can purchase our zero trust exchange services as well as request or high value security assessments. We're excited about that as we're seeing a rapid increase in customer adoption as these scaler via the AWS marketplace, we vetted our software on AWS edge services that support emerging use cases, including 5g, IOT, and OT. So for example, Zscaler runs on wavelength, outposts, snowball and snowcones, and Zscaler has strategic partnerships with leading AWS service providers and system integration partners, including Verizon NTT, BT, Accenture, Deloitte, and many of the leading national and regional AWS consulting partners. >>Great summary there. So you mentioned something I want to get more understanding on this. It sounds like it's a differentiator for CSO scale. You said that you guys recently announced to the first and only cloud security service to achieve FedRAMP high. Uh, ATO built on AWS gov cloud. Talk to me about and what the significance of that is. >>I L five authorization to operate means that we are able to protect federal assets for the department of defense, as well as for the civilian agencies. It just extends the certification of our cloud by the government to ensure that we meet all of the requirements to protect that military side of the house, as well as the civilian side of the house. >>Got it super important there, let's talk about zero trust. It's a super hot topic. We've seen so many changes to the threat landscape during the pandemic. How are some of the ways that Z scaler and AWS are helping customers tackle this together? >>Well, I'd actually like to answer that by telling a little bit of a story. Um, Growmark is one of our Z scaler and AWS success stories when they had to send everyone home to work from home overnight, the quote that we had from is the users just went home and nothing changed. ZPA made work from anywhere, just work, and they were able to maintain complete business continuity. So even though their employers might have had poor internet service at home, or, you know, 80 challenging infrastructure, if you've got kids on your wifi bunch of kids in the neighborhood doing remote school, everyone's working from home, you don't have the reliability or the, maybe the bandwidth capacity that you would when you're sitting in an office. And Zscaler private access is a cloud delivered zero trust solution that leverages dynamic resilient, TLS encrypted tunnels to connect the user to an application rather than putting an end point on a network. >>And the reason that's important is it makes for a much more reliable and resilient service, even in environments that may not have the best connectivity I live out in the county. I really, some days think that there's a hamster on a wheel somewhere in my cable modem network, and I am a consumer of this, right. I connect to Z scaler over Zscaler private access, I'm protected by Zscaler internet access. And so I access our internal applications that are running in AWS as well this way. And it makes a huge difference. Growmark really started with an SAP migration to AWS, and this was long before the pandemic. So they started out looking for that better user experience and the zero trust capability. They were able to ensure that their SAP environment was dark to the internet, even though it was running in the cloud. And that put them in this position to leverage that zero trust service when the pandemic was upon us, >>That ability or that quote that you mentioned, it just worked was absolutely critical for all of us in every industry. And I'm sure a lot of folks who were trying to manage working from home, the spouses from home kids doing, you know, school online also felt like you with the hamster on the wheel, I'm sure their internet access, but being able to have that business continuity was table-stakes especially early on for most organizations. We saw a lot of digital transformation, a lot of acceleration of it in the last 20 months during the pandemic. Talk to me about how Z scaler helps customers from a digital transformation perspective and maybe what some of the things were that you saw in the last 20 months that have accelerated >>Absolutely. Um, another example, there would be Jefferson health, and really, as we saw during the pandemic, as you say, it accelerated a lot of the existing trends of mobility, but also migration to the cloud. And when you move applications to the cloud, honestly, it's a complex environment and maybe the controls and the risk landscape is not as well. Understood. So Z scaler also has another solution, which is our cloud security posture management. And this is really ensuring that your configuration on your environment, that those workloads run in is controlled, understood correctly, coordinated and configured. So as deference and health migrated to the cloud first model, they were able to leverage the scalers workload posture to measure and control that risk. Again, it's environment where the combination of AWS and Z scaler together gives them a flexible, resilient solution that they can be confident is correctly configured and thoroughly locked down. >>And that's critical for businesses in any organization, especially as quickly as how quickly things changed in the last 20 months or so I do wonder how your customer conversations have has changed as I introduced you as the field CTO of the America's proceeds killer. I'm sure you talk with a lot of customers. How has the security posture, um, zero trust? How has that risen up within the organizational chain? Is that something that the board is concerned about? >>My gosh, yes. And zero trust really has gone through the Gartner hype cycle. You've got the introduction, the peak of interest, the trough of despair, and then really rising back into what's actually feasible. Only zero trust has done that on a timeline of over a decade. When the term was first introduced, I was working with firewall VPN enact technology, and frankly, we didn't necessarily have the flexibility, the scalability, or the resilience to offer true zero trust. You can try to do that with network security controls, but when you're really protecting a user connecting to an application, you've got an abstraction layer mismatch. What we're seeing now is the reemergence of zero trust as a priority. And this was greatly accelerated honestly by the cybersecurity executive order that came out a few months ago from the Biden administration, which made zero trust a priority for the federal government and the public sector, but also raised visibility on zero trust for the private sector as well. >>When we're looking at zero trust as a way to perhaps ward off some of these high profile breaches and outages like the colonial pipeline, whole situation that was based on some legacy technology for remote access that was exploited and led to a breach that they had to take their entire infrastructure offline to mitigate. If we can look at more modern delivery mechanisms and more sophisticated controls for zero trust, that helps the board address a number of challenges ranging from obviously risk management, but also agility and cost reduction in an environment where more than ever belts are being tightened. New ways of delivering applications are being considered. But the ability to innovate is more important than ever. >>It is more important than ever the ability to innovate, but it really changing security landscape. I'm glad to hear that you're seeing, uh, this change as a result of the executive order that president Biden put down in the summer. That's good news. It sounds like there's some progress being made there, but we saw, you mentioned colonial pipeline. We saw a lot in the last 20, 22 months or so with ransomware becoming a household word, also becoming something that is a matter of when companies in any industry get hit and versus if it's no longer kind of that choice anymore. So talk to me about some of the threats and some of the stats that Z scaler has seen particularly in the last 20, 22 months. >>Oh gosh. Well, let's see. I'm just going to focus on the last 12 months, cause that's really where we've got some of the best data. We've seen a 500% increase in ransomware delivered over encrypted channels. And what that means is it's really critical to have scalable SSL inspection that can operate at wire speed without impeding the user experience or delay in critical projects, server communications, activities that need to happen without any introduced in any additional latency. So if you think about what that takes the Z scaler internet access solution is protecting users, outbound access in the same way that Zscaler private access protects access to private resources. So we're really seeing more and more organizations seeing that both of these services are necessary to deliver a comprehensive zero trust. You have to protect and control the outbound traffic to make sure that nothing good leaks out, nothing bad sneaks in. >>And at the same time, you have to protect and control the inbound traffic and inbound is, you know, a much broader definition with apps in the data center in the cloud these days. We're also seeing that 30% of malware is delivered through trusted applications like file shares or collaboration tools. So it's no longer enough to only inspect web traffic. Now you have to be able to really inspect all flavors of traffic when you're doing that outbound protection. So another good example where Z scaler and AWS work together here is in Amazon workspaces. And there's a huge trend towards desktop as a service, for example, and organizations are starting to recognize that they need to protect both the user experience and also the connectivity onward in Amazon workspaces, the same way that they would for a traditional end user device. So we see Z scaler running in the Amazon workspaces instances to protect that outbound traffic and control that inbound traffic as well. >>Another big area is the ransomware infections are not the problem. It's the result. So over half of the ransomware infections include data theft or leakage. And that is a double whammy because you get what's called double extortion where not only do you have to pay to unlock your machines, but you have to pay not to have that stolen data exposed to the rest of the world. So it's more important than ever to be able to break that kill chain as early as possible to ensure that the or the server traffic itself isn't exposed to the initial infection vector. If you do happen to get an infection vector that sneaks through, you need to be able to control the lateral movement so that it doesn't spread in your environment. And then if both of those controls fail, you also need the outbound protection such as CASBY and DLP to ensure that even if they get into the environment, they can't exfiltrate any of the data that they find as a result. We're seeing that the largest security risk today is lateral movement inside the corporate network. And that's one of the things that makes these ransomware double extortion situations, such a problem. >>Last question for you. And we've got about a minute left. I'm curious, you said over 50% of ransomware attacks are now double extortion. How do you guys help customers combat that? So >>We really deliver a solution that eliminates a lot of the attack surface and a lot of the risks. We have no inbound listener, unlike a traditional VPN. So the outbound only connections mean you don't have the external attack surface. You can write these granular policy controls to eliminate lateral movement. And because we integrate with customer's existing identity and access management, we can eliminate the credential exposure that can lead to a larger spread in a compromised environment. We also can eliminate the problem of unpatched gateways, which led to things like colonial pipeline or some of the other major breaches we've seen recently. And we can remove that single point of failure. So you can rely on dynamic optimized traffic distribution for all of these secure services. Basically, what we're trying to do is make it simpler and more secure at the same time, >>Simpler and more secure at the same time is what everyone needs regardless of industry. Lisa, thank you for joining me today, talking about Zscaler in AWS, zero trust the threat landscape that you're seeing, and also how's the scaler and AWS together can help customers mitigate those growing risks. We appreciate your insights and your thoughtfulness. >>Thank you >>For Lisa Lorenzen. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent stick around more great content coming up next.

>>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21. Finally, some Arten twenty-nine next word Holloway, the director of technology alliances at Z scaler ward. Welcome to the program. >>Thanks for having me great to be here. >>Talk to me a little bit about Zscaler and Splunk working together. How are you helping companies to improve their security posture? >>Yeah, I think, um, you know, we're each, uh, market leaders in our respective areas as these scale are the market leader for cloud delivered security as a service and Splunk is really the market leader in log monitoring and correlation across the entire security environment, uh, really providing their customers deeper insights through zero trust analytics and orchestration, and together our integrated solution protects enterprises from threat campaigns, reduces security operations burdens through automation, and really provides our customers with actionable data much faster than they could do, uh, on their own. >>That actionable data at speed is, is incredibly important. You mentioned zero trust. That's a hot topic right now. Let's dig more into how Z scaler and Splunk handle zero trust. >>Yeah, well, I think first and foremost, um, our integration is cloud native. Um, so you're getting that data in real time and not requiring any on-premise appliances or infrastructure. Um, and that's a real key thing in this cloud enabled cloud-first world that we're all operating in. And by getting that data in quickly to Splunk really enabled, uh, our customers to do some interesting things. Um, we have some prebuilt dashboards, VRR Splunk application, uh, that allows customers to very quickly leverage our data and logs on and give insights into what exactly is going on. And they can view usage, uh, applications threats all immediately. And that data that we're sending to Splunk is, uh, natively configured in splints SIM, uh, logging, uh, protocol. So it natively and easily is, um, leveraged by our users, uh, when they deploy out the Splunk app from Zscaler. >>So what are some of the things that differentiate how's the scalar delivers zero trust network access compared to some of the other guys? >>Well, I think first and foremost, um, zero trust has to enable zero network access. It requires zero access to the network. So you only connect to a particular application, really eliminating the possibility for lateral movement. It's really, uh, like the difference between letting a guest in your office wander around your headquarters on escorted, uh, versus escorting a guest to a meeting room, and then it's scoring them out once the meeting is over. I think the second key really is then also having a zero attack surface. Anything that resolves on the open internet today can be discovered exploited, um, denial of service. This means traditional solutions like firewalls, VPNs, uh, any web portal will that are visible on the internet are ultimately an attack surface, which is really a security risk. Um, if they can find it, if they can discover it, they can attack it. >>If they can't find your application, they can attack it. So that's really the key about a zero trust approach. That's Zscaler takes a, we don't expose anything on the internet and finally we have zero pass-through. So our zero trust exchange, doesn't go through a pass through connection, if utilize as a proxy architecture, which allows you to hold the data, inspect it, and then making a verdict before allowing it to pass. This is really a fundamental key for zero trust, ensure that all connections are secure from threats and data loss, and only allowing things in based on the context of the actual data itself. >>We've seen a massive change in the threat landscape in the last 18, 19 months. I'm wondering what, if you can kind of elaborate on some of the trends from a security perspective, a threat perspective that Zscaler has seen? >>Yeah, I think, um, you know, with the pandemic, obviously, um, it's greatly accelerated, uh, work from home work from anywhere. Um, so users are no longer on their company's corporate networks. Uh, they're working from their homes, they're working from traveling around wherever they might be, uh, in the country. And I think that really has increased, um, the threat attack surface. Um, it's not protected by the traditional security infrastructure that companies have spent years putting in place in their networks because everyone is remote. And we think things like a 500 and 500% increase in ransomware delivered over encrypted channels, for example, uh, and 30% of malware delivered through trusted apps, such as file sharing and collaboration tools. Um, and so ultimately the largest risk is really lateral movement inside of the corporate networks. Uh, once these things get in because traditional approaches such as VPNs are placing the users on the network, uh, and ultimately exposing them to risk. >>You said a 500% increase in ransomware delivered over encrypted channels. That's huge. And that is what, one of the things that we've seen just this year alone is ransomware becoming a household word, everyone understanding what happened with the colonial pipeline, the executive order, that's a huge threat there. And of course, ransomware is also getting more personal. Are you seeing that as well? >>Yeah, definitely. Um, I think again with all of the remote workforce being distributed, um, and no longer protected by the traditional security approaches, um, it's exposing them to this ransomware and it's what attackers are really kind of leaning on to go after, um, these remote users in order to gain access into the corporate infrastructures and ultimately deploy ransomware within those infrastructures. And that's really why zero trust is so important. Zero trust is really the idea of kind of putting an exchange, uh, in the, the cloud itself, so that security is buy all of your users wherever they may be. So regardless of where those users are working, whether it's remotely from home, whether it's traveling at a hotel, uh, whether they've decided to sell everything and get an RV and travel around the country, uh, by placing a zero trust cloud exchange, uh, in place to secure your assets and secure the connections, uh, you're protecting those users wherever they are, and ultimately protecting against that ransomware threat. >>And that's going to be key as this work from anywhere persist for a while. And then eventually there'll be probably some hybrid environment with a good amount of people working remotely and that the need to secure that landscape and deliver that zero trust. Is this going to be table stakes for businesses in any industry? Talk to me about, uh, about digital transformation. We've been talking about that for years now, but what are, how are some of the ways that Z scaler helps your customers? And then what are some of the things that you've seen perhaps accelerate in the last 18, 19 months? >>Yeah, I think we touched on it already. Obviously the pandemic really accelerated the work from anywhere work from our remote, um, dynamic. Um, and I think, uh, you know, that combined with, um, most corporations moving towards embracing the cloud and, uh, software as a service has really accelerated this whole digital transformation movement. Um, and the pandemic has just made it, you know, come to us exceptionally faster. So now that, um, users are working remotely anywhere, and now that your assets are no longer in data centers, but sitting in the cloud, whether it's things like, you know, Workday or Microsoft office 365 or Salesforce or whatever application that you're using, you know, the traditional castle and moat approach to security that we used to take, doesn't really work in this cloud first world. Um, you know, corporations spend a lot of years deploying firewalls, VPNs. DLPs things of that nature in all of the data centers that they physically controlled. >>Uh, and that was great when all of the users were physically at the office and going through that physical infrastructure. But now that the pandemic has accelerated this remote work from anywhere, uh, dynamic, uh, that old castle and load approach doesn't work anymore. So you have these users scattered around, not connecting through your data centers, not connecting through your infrastructure. And the pandemic also really explodes, um, the weakness of that, that model as well. Uh, when everybody got sent home, initially, they were leveraging those VPNs to try to connect back through those legacy data centers and then out the cloud. And we're really experiencing a terrible, uh, experience working in that environment. Uh, the VPNs were overwhelmed. They fell over and a lot of users started just going directly to the cloud themselves. And that's really where you risk this exposure. And this problem with ransomware as they were bypassing traditional security measures, if you had in place and exposing you to a much greater risk. And that's why the zero trust approach that Zscaler takes was much more effective and combined with what we're doing with Splunk really needed to do to get full visibility across that deployed disparate infrastructure, that you have an insight into what those users are doing and the ability to automatically react to it with the integration that we have with Splunk, sor >>That insight is absolutely critical. You talked about that rapid scatter to work from home that occurred 18, 19 months ago. And of course we all, all of us workers that were remote and are still remote we're are reliant on SAS tools, collaboration tools, video conferencing. And of course you mentioned a step now 30% of malware is delivered through trusted apps, like collaboration tools. Talk to me about how Zscaler and Splunk are helping customers combat challenges like that as they still are in this dynamic work from anywhere environment. >>Yeah, I think, um, we've got a couple of interesting integrations. Again, first we're automatically sitting the data from, uh, all of our ZScaler's zero trust infrastructure to Splunk, uh, automatically normalized and their SIM format. So it is natively and easily ingested into Splunk. And you start getting actionable insight from that. Uh, once that data is in Splunk and start doing an analysis, um, and seeing what is going on with those users, looking at things like, uh, most hits sites sites that are blocked, uh, any suspicious information that they're starting to see through their analysis and correlation engine. Uh, and they can even take action on that. If they suddenly see users going to known bad malware sites, for example, they can use the Splunk soar integration that we have to call the endpoint detection and response system that they may have in place and block that user from connecting it. So we're giving users full insight into what their user base is doing and the ability to automatically react to that and even block and prevent a bad actions that can ultimately expose them to risk >>The customer example that you can share of how you guys are doing this together. >>Uh, I mean, we have many examples through multiple verticals, be it financial healthcare, uh, manufacturing, uh, there's one insurance company in particular that I can think of that, uh, has integrated the solutions together. And really, as soon as they put the two integrations in place, we're able to identify a number of users that were hitting malicious sites and automatically block and protect those users from going to those sites and eliminating that risk from their environment. >>Excellent. Talk to me about some of the key, uh, pain points that you're solving for and some of the business outcomes that customers can expect working with Zscaler and Splunk. >>Uh, great question. Uh, I think one of the first is the zero trust exchange. The vScaler Habs enables really the much needed modern workplace, um, that COVID is further accelerated. Um, users really can work anywhere, uh, so that they can safely access any application from any network. Uh, whether that location is external, internal on any device. And the exchange really provides consistent security by being the inline policy enforcement point between all devices and services. The other thing that I think is key is users really require a great experience. And so if something goes wrong, you need to be able to quickly figure out what that is. Um, so we're constantly collecting a huge amount of telemetry, uh, to really understand and see exactly what that user experience is like, uh, and what issues they may be having, and really giving you the ability to see those issues before they arise and cause a problem. >>So you can proactively identify them and eliminate them. So they don't cause a problem. Uh, we've been able to allow our customers to roll the solution out and days and even over the weekend in order to get started. And this really allows them to accelerate, implementing zero trust for their organization by ensuring that all traffic for the internet goes through the zero trust exchange first, where it's fully did prepped it in inspected for any threats or data loss. And that's really key. Uh, I think one of the things that's so important in differentiating about what ZScaler's does is we're able to inspect traffic at scale. Uh, we have over 150 points of presence around the world that allows us to inspect all traffic, including SSL, encrypted traffic. So I think that's really a key point to focus on is that, you know, most of the threats that you and I were talking about earlier, especially around ransomware, tend to try to hide themselves, uh, and SSL, encrypted traffic. So whatever solution you want to deploy for CR trust it's imperative, that it has the ability to fully expect SSL traffic at scale, not just a limited subset of that traffic, but all of it, because so much of the threats today are coming, uh, in an encrypted format. >>And that's probably something that I I'm wondering if you, if you're seeing that those threats in terms of the increase and the, and the significance is only going to persist as this work from any more environment does. So how can customers get started with these scaler and Splunk? Where would, where would they start? >>Well, I think, uh, the great thing is, um, if they are a Z scaler customer or a Splunk customer, uh, it's very easy for them just to go to the Splunk app store and download the Zscaler app, uh, to allow them to very quickly and easily integrate the two solutions together. Uh, once they've made that connection, uh, we start automatically sending all of our logging and telemetry data into Splunk, and then they're able to leverage to the Splunk, the infrastructure and the dashboards that we've created to automatically start getting that insight into what's going on within their user community to see what threats are spooling up and to leverage Splunk, soar, to take automated action, to protect and eliminate those threats from their environment. So it's very easy for our users and our customers to get the application up and running quickly and start realizing value from the deployment itself. >>Yeah. You mentioned a stat a minute ago in terms of being able to deploy over the weekend, not fast time to value in this dynamic, uh, landscape where the threats are constantly changing, that that fast time to value is critical for businesses in any industry. >>Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I think that's the key again in this cloud world where you no longer have, uh, everything in your data center, and it's not a very simple and easy process. Just someone down to the data center to deploy a new solution, the solutions that you do choose need to be able to spin up quickly and easily. And that's really what we've built together with our integration with Splunk. Um, it was designed to be easy, quick to deploy and quick to re leverage value from. >>Excellent. Thank you for joining me talking about what Z scaler and Splunk are doing together, how you're helping customers to solve key pain points and that fast time to value that you're delivering. We appreciate your insights and your time. >>Thank you >>For ward Holloway. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21.

>>we're back, we're assessing the as a service space. H. P. S. Green Lake announcements, my name is Dave balanta, you're watching the cube die on Hinchcliffe is here along with Holger muller, these are the constellation kids, extraordinary analysts guys. Great to see you again. I mean it super experienced. You guys, you deal with practitioners, you deal your technologist, you've been following this business for a long time. Diane, We spoke to Holger earlier, I want to start with you uh when you look at this whole trend to as a service, you see a lot of traditional enterprise companies, hard traditionally hardware companies making that move for for a lot of obvious reasons are they sort of replicating in your view, a market that you know well and sas what's your take on how they're doing generally that trend and how HP is >>operating well. Hp has had a unique heritage. They're coming at the whole cloud story and you know the Hyper Scaler story from a different angle than a lot of their competitors and that's mostly a good thing because most of the world is not yet on the cloud, They actually came from H. P. S original world, their line of servers and networks and so on. Um and and so they bring a lot of credibility saying we really understand the world you live in now but we want to take you to that that as a service future. Uh and and you know, since we understand you so well and we also understand where this is going and we can adapt that to that world. Have a very compelling story and I think that with green like you know, was first started about four years ago, it was off to the side uh you know, with all the other offerings now it's it's really grown up, it's matured a lot and I think you know, as we talked about the announcements, we'll see that a lot of key pieces have fallen into place to make it a very compelling hybrid cloud option for the enterprise. >>Let's talk about the announcement. Was there anything in particular that stood out the move to data management? I think it's pretty interesting is a tam expansion strategy. What's your take on the >>announcement? Well, the you know, the unified analytics uh story I think is really important now. That's the technology piece where they say, they say we can give you a data fabric, you can access your data outside of its silos. It doesn't address a lot of the process and cultural issues around data ownership inside the enterprise, but it's you know, having in the actual platform and as you articulating it as a platform, that's one of the things that was also evident, they were getting better and better at saying this is a hybrid cloud platform and it has all the pieces that you would expect, especially the things like being able to bring your data from wherever it is to wherever people needed to be. Uh you know, that's the Holy Grail, so really glad to see that component in particular. I also like the cloud adoption framework saying we understand how to take you from this parochial world of servers that you have and do a cloud date of hybrid world and then maybe eventually get you get you to a public cloud. We understand all the steps and all the components uh I think that's uh you know, I have a study that fully in depth but it seems to have all the moving parts >>chime in anything stand out to, you >>know, I think it's great announcements and the most important things H. P. S and transformation and when you and transformation people realize who you've been, the old and they're here. Maybe the mass of the new but an experienced technology but I will not right away saying oh it's gonna happen right. It's going to happen like this is gonna be done, it's ready, it's materials ready to use and so on. So this is going to give more data points, more proof points, more capabilities that HB is moving away from whatever they were before. That's not even say that to a software services as a service as you mentioned provider. It's >>been challenging, you look at the course of history for companies that try to go from being a hardware company to a software company, uh HP itself, you know, sort of gave up on that IBM you could say, you know semi succeeded but they've they've struggled what's different >>That will spend 30 billion, >>30 >>four. Exactly. So and of course Cisco is making that transition. I mean every traditional large companies in that transition. What about today? Well, first of all, what do you think about HP es, prospects of doing so? And are there things today in the business that make that, you know more faster, whether it's containers or the cloud itself or just the scale of the internet? >>I mean it's fascinating topic, right? And I think many of the traditional players in the space failed because they wanted to mimic the cloud players and they simply couldn't muster up the Capex, which you need to build up public cloud. Right? Because if you think of the public cloud players then didn't put it up for the cloud offering, they put it up because they need themselves right, amazon is an online retailer google as a search and advertising giant Microsoft is organic load from from from office, which they had to bring to the cloud. So it was easier for them to do that. So no wonder they failed. The good news is they haven't lost much of their organic load. Hp customers are still HP customer service, celebrity security in their own premises and now they're bringing the qualities of the cloud as a service, the pay as you go capabilities to the on premise stack, which helps night leader to reduce complexity and go to what everybody in the post pandemic world wants to get to, which is I only pay for what I use and that's super crucial because business goes up and down. We're riding all the waves in a much, much faster way than ever before. Right before we had seven year cycles, it was kind of like cozy almost now we're down to seven weeks, sometimes seven days, sometimes seven hour cycles. And I don't want to pay for it infrastructure, which was great for how my business was two years ago. I want to pay for it as I use it now as a pivot now and I'm going to use >>Diane. How much of this? Thank you for that whole girl. How much of this is what customers want and need versus sort of survival tactics on the vendors >>part. So I think that there, if you look at where customers want to go, they know they have to go cloud, they had to go as a service. Um, and that they need to make multiple steps to get there. And for the most part, I see green light is being a, a highly credible market response to say, you know, we understand IT better, we helped build you guys up over the last 30 years. We can take you the rest of the way, here's all the evidence and the proof points, which I think a lot of the announcements provide uh, and they're very good on cloud native, but the area where the story, um, you may not be the fullest strength it needs to be is around things like multi cloud. So when I talked to almost any large organization C I O. They have all the clouds need to know, how do I make all this fit together? How do I reconcile that? So for the most part, I think it's closely aligned with actual customer requirements and customer needs. I think these have additional steps to go >>is that, do you feel like that's a a priority? In other words, they got to kind of take a linear path. They got to solve the problem for their core customer base or is it, do you feel like that's not even necessarily an aspiration? And it seems like customers, I want them to go. There is what I'm >>inferring that you're, so I do. Well let's go back to the announcement specifically. So there's there are two great operational announcements, one around the cloud physics and the other one around info site. It gives a wealth of data, you know, full stack about how things are operating, where the needs are, how you might be able to get more efficiencies, how you can shut down silicon, you're not using a lot of really great information, but all that has to live with a whole bunch of other consoles and everybody is really craving the single piece of glass. That's what they want is they want to reduce complexity as holder was saying and say, I want to be able to get my arms around my data center and all of my cloud assets. But I don't want to have to check each cloud. I want it in one place. So uh, but it's great to see those announcements position them for that next step. They have these essential components that are that look, you know, uh, they look best to breed in terms of their capabilities are certainly very modern now. They have to get the rest of that story. >>Hope you were mentioning Capex. I added it up I think last year the big four include Alibaba, spent 100 billion on the Capex and generally the traditional on prem players have been defensive around cloud. Not everything is moving to the cloud, we all know that. But I, I see that as a gift in a way that the companies like HP can build on top of into Diane's point that, you know, extend cross clouds out to the edge, which is, you know, a trillion dollar opportunity, which is just just massive. What are your thoughts on HBs opportunities there and chances of maybe breaking away from the pack >>I think definitely well there's no matter pack left, like there's only 23, it's a triumvirate of maybe it's a good thing from a marketing standpoint. There's not a long list of people who give me hardware in my data center. But I think it increases their chances, right? Like I said, it's a transformation, there's more credibility, there's more data point, there's more usage. I can put more workloads on this. And I see, I also will pay attention to that and look at that for the transformation. No question. >>Yeah. And speaking of C. I. O. S. What are you hearing these days? What's their reaction to this whole trend toward as a service? Do they, do they welcome it? Do they feel like okay it's a wait and see. Uh I need more proof points. What's the sentiment? >>Well, you have to divide the Ceo market basically two large groups. One is the the ones that are highly mature. They tend to be in larger organizations are very sophisticated consumers of everything. They see the writing on the wall and that for most things certainly not everything as a service makes the most sense for all the reasons we know, agility and and and speed, you know, time to value scalability, elasticity, all those great things. Uh And then you have the the other side of the market which they really crave control. They have highly parochial worlds that they've built up um that are hard to move to the cloud because they're so complex and intertwined because they haven't had that high maturity. They have a lot of spaghetti architecture. They're not really ready to move the cloud very quickly. So the the second audience though is the largest one and it's uh you know, the hyper scales are probably getting a lot of the first ones. Um, but the bigger markets, really the second one where the folks that need a lot of help and they have a lot of legacy hardware and software that they need to move and that H P. E understands very well. And so I think from that standpoint they're well positioned to take advantage of an untapped market are relatively untapped market in comparison. Hey, >>in our business we all get pulled in different directions because it would get to eat. But what are some of the cool things you guys are working on in your research that you might want people to know about? >>Uh, I just did a market overview for enterprise application platforms. I'm a strong believer that you should not build all your enterprise software yourself, but you can't use everything that you get from your typical SAs provider. So it's focusing on the extent integration and build capabilities. Bill is very, very important to create the differentiation in the marketplace and all the known sauce players basically for their past. Right? My final example is always to speak in cartoons, right? The peanuts, right? There's Linus of this comfort blanket. Right? The past capability of the SARS player is the comfort blanket, right? You don't fit 100% there or you want to build something strategic or we'll never get to that micro vertical. We have a great enterprise application, interesting topic. >>Especially when you see what's happening with Salesforce and Service now trying to be the platform platforms. I have to check that out. How about >>Diane? Well and last year I had a survey conducted a survey with the top 100 C IOS and at least in my view about what they're gonna do to get through this year. And so I'm redoing that again to say, you know, what are they gonna do in 2022? Because there's so many changes in the world and so, you know, last year digital transformation, automation cybersecurity, we're at the top of the list and it'll be very interesting. Cloud was there too in the top five. So we're gonna see what, how it's all going to change because next year is the year of hybrid work where we're all we have to figure out how half of our businesses are in the office and half are at home and how we're gonna connect those together and what tools we're gonna make, that everybody's trying to figure >>out how to get hybrid. Right, so definitely want to check out that research guys. Thanks so much for coming to the cubes. Great to see you. >>Thanks. Thanks Dave >>Welcome. Okay and thank you for watching everybody keep it right there for more great content from H. P. S. Green Lake announcement. You're watching the cube. Mm this wasn't

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante by the dip has been been an effective strategy since the market bottomed in early march last year the approach has been especially successful in tech and even more so for those tech names that one were well positioned for the forced march to digital i sometimes call it i.e remote work online commerce data centric platforms and certain cyber security plays and two already had the cloud figured out the question on investors minds is where to go from here should you avoid some of the high flyers that are richly valued with eye-popping multiples or should you continue to buy the dip and if so which companies that capitalized on the trends from last year will see permanent shifts in spending patterns that make them a solid long-term play hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we shine the spotlight on three companies that may be candidates for a buy the dip strategy and it's our pleasure to welcome in ivana delevco who's the chief investment officer and founder of spear alpha a new research-centric etf focused on industrial technology ivana is a long-time equity analyst with a background in both long and short investing ivana welcome to the program thanks so much for coming on thanks for having me david yeah it's really our pleasure i i want to start with your etf and give the folks a bit more background about you first you know we gotta let people know i'm not an investment pro i'm not an advisor i don't make stock recommendations i don't sell investments so you got to do your own research i have a lot of data so happy to share it but you got to understand your own risks you of course yvonne on the other hand you do offer investment services and so people before investing got to carefully review all the available available investment docs understand what you're getting into before you invest now with that out of the way ivana i have some stats up here on this slide your spear you're a newly launched female lead firm that does deep research into the supply chain we're going to talk about that you try to uncover as i understand it under-appreciated industrial tech firms and some really pretty cool areas that we list here but tell us a little bit more about your background and your etf so thanks for having me david my background is in industrial research and industrial technology investments i've spent the past 15 years covering this space and what we've seen over the past five years is technology changes that are really driving fundamental shifts in industrial manufacturing processes so whether this is 5g connectivity innovation in the software stack increasing compute speeds all of these are major technological advancements that are impacting uh traditional manufacturers so what we try to do is assess speak to these firms and assess who is at the leading and who is at the lagging end of this digital transformation and we're trying to assess what vendors they're using what processes they're implementing and that is how we generate most of our investment ideas okay great and and we show on the bottom of of this sort of intro slide if you will uh so one of the processes that you use and one of the things that that is notable a lot of people compare you uh to kathy woods are investments when you came out uh i think you use a different process i mean maybe there are some similarities in terms of disruption but at the bottom of this slide it shows a mckinsey sort of graphic that that i think informs people as to how you really dig into the supply chain from a research standpoint is that right absolutely so for us it's all about understanding the supply chain going deep in the supply chain and gather data points from primary sources that we can then translate into investment opportunities so if you look at this mckinsey graph uh you will see that there is a lot of opportunity to for these companies to transform themselves both on the front end which means better revenue better products and on their operation side which means lower cost whether it's through better operations or through better processes on the the back end so what we do is we will speak to a traditional manufacturing company and ask them okay well what do you use for better product development and they will give us the name of the firms and give us an assessment of what's the differences between the competitors why they like one versus the other so then we're gonna take the data and we will put it into our financial model and we'll understand the broader market for it um the addressable market the market share that the company has and will project the growth so for these higher growth stocks that that you cover the main alpha generation uh potential here is to understand what the amount of growth these companies will generate over the next 10 to 20 years so it's really all about projecting growth in the next three years in the next five years and where will growth ultimately settle in in the next 10 to 20 years love it we're gonna have a fun conversation because today we're going to get into your thesis for cooper snowflake and z scalar we're going to bring in some of our own data some of our data from etr and and why you think these companies may be candidates for long-term growth and and be buy the dip stock so to do that i hacked up this little comparison slide we're showing here i do this for context our audience knows i'm not a cfa or a valuation expert but we like to do simple comparisons just to give people context and a sense of relative size growth and valuation and so this chart attempts to do that so what i did is i took the most recent quarterly revenue for cooper snowflake and z scalar multiplied it by four to get a run rate we included servicenow in the table just for baseline reference because bill mcdermott as we've reported aspires to make service now the next great enterprise software company alongside with salesforce and oracle and some of the others and and all these companies that we list here that through the three here they aspire to do so in their own domain so we're displaying the market cap from friday morning september 10th we calculated a revenue run rate multiple and we show the quarterly revenue growth and what this data does is gives you a sense of the three companies they're well on their way to a billion dollars in revenue it underscores the relationship between revenue growth and valuation snowflake being the poster child for that dynamic savannah i know you do much more detailed financial analysis but let's talk about these companies in order maybe start with koopa they just crushed their quarter i mean they blew away consensus on the top line what else about the company do you like and why is it on your by the dip list so just to back up david on valuation these companies investors either directly or indirectly value on a dcf basis and what happened at the beginning of the year as interest rates started increasing people started freaking out and once you plug in 100 basis points higher interest rate in your dcf model you get significant price downside so that really drove a lot of the pullback at the beginning of the year right now where we stand today interest rates haven't really moved all that significantly off the bot of the bottom they're still around the same levels maybe a little bit higher but those are not the types of moves that are going to drive significant downside in this stock so as things have stabilized here a lot of these opportunities look pretty attractive on that basis so koopa specifically came out of our um if you go back to that uh the chart of like where the opportunities lie in um in across the manufacturing uh um enterprise koopa is really focused on business pen management so they're really trying to help companies reduce their cost uh and they're a leader in the space uh they're unique uh unique in that they're cloud-based so the feedback we've been hearing from from our companies that use it jetblue uses it train technologies uses it the feedback we've been hearing is that they love the ease of implementation so it's very easy to implement and it drives real savings um savings for these companies so we see in our dcf model we see multiple years of this 30 40 percent growth and that's really driving our price target yeah and we can i can confirm that i mean i mean just anecdotally you know you know we serve a lot of the technology community and many of our clients are saying hey okay you know when you go to do invoicing or whatever you work with procurement it's koopa you know this is some ariba that's kind of the legacy which is sap we'll talk about that a little later but let's talk about snowflake um you know snowflake we've been tracking them very closely we know the management there we've watched them through their last two companies now here and have been following that company early on since since really 2015. tell us why you like snowflake um and and maybe why you think it can continue its rapid growth thanks david so first of all i need to compliment you on your research on the company on the technology side so where we come in is more from understanding where our companies can use soft snowflake and where snowflake can add value so what we've been hearing from our companies is the challenge that they're facing is that everybody's moving to the cloud but it's not as simple as just send your data to the cloud and call aws and they're gonna generate more revenue for your solve your cost problem so what we've been hearing is that companies need to find tools that are easy to use where they can use their own domain expertise and just plug and play so um ansys is one of the companies we covered the dust simulation they've found snowflake to be an extremely useful tool in sales lead generation and within sales crm systems have been around for a while and they're they've really been implemented but analyzing sales numbers is something that is new to this company some some of our companies don't even know what their sales are even when they look back after the quarter is closed so tools like this help um companies do easy analytics and therefore drive revenue and cost savings growth so we see really big runway for for this company and i think the most misunderstood part about it is that people view it as a warehousing data warehousing play while this is all about compute and the company does a good job separating the two and what our their customers like or like the companies that we cover like about it is that it can lower their compute costs um and make it much easier much more easily manageable for them great and we're going to talk about more about each of these companies but let's talk about z-scaler a bit i mean z-scaler is a company we've been very excited about and identified them kind of early on they've definitely benefited from the move to cloud generally and specifically the remote work uh situation with the cyber threats etc but tell us why you like z-scaler so interestingly z-scaler um we like the broader security space um the broader cyber security space and interestingly our companies are not yet spending to the level that is commensurate with the increase in attack rate so we think this is a trend that is really going to accelerate as we go forward um my own board 20 of the time on the last board meeting was spent on cyber security what we're doing and this is a pretty simple operation that that we're running here so you can imagine for a large enterprise with thousands of people all around the world um needing to be on a single simple system z-scaler really fits well here very easy to implement several of our industrial companies use it siemens uses it ge uses it and they've had great great experience with it excellent i just want to take a quick look at how some of these names have performed over the last year and and what if anything this data tells us this is a chart comparing the past 12 months performance of of those four companies uh that we just talked about and we added in you know servicenow z scalar as you can see has outperformed the other despite your commentary on discounted cash flow snowflake is underperformed really precisely for the reasons that you mentioned not to mention the fact that it was pretty highly valued and you can see relative to the nas but it's creeping back lately after very strong earnings even though the stock dropped after it beat earnings because the street wants the cfo to say to guide even higher than maybe as mike scarpelli feels is prudent and you can see cooper has also underperformed relatively speaking i mean it absolutely destroyed consensus this week the stock went up but it's been off with the the weaker market this week i know you like to take a longer term view but but anything you would add here yeah so interestingly both z-scaler and koopa were in the camp of as we went into earnings expectations were already pretty high because few of their competitors reported very strong results so this scalar yesterday their revenue growth was was pretty strong the stock is down today uh and the reason is because people were kind of caught up a little bit in the noise of this quarter growth is 57 last quarter it was 60 like is this a deceleration we don't see it as that at all and the company brought up one point that i thought was extremely interesting which is as their deal sizes are getting larger it takes a little longer time for them to see the revenue come through so it takes a little bit of time to for you to see it into from billings into into revenue same thing with cooper very strong earnings report but i think expectations were already pretty high going into it uh given the service now and um and anna plan as well reported strong results so i think it's all about positioning so we love these setups where you can buy the deep in on this opportunity where like people get caught up in um short-term noise and and it creates good entry points excellent i i want to bring in some data from our partner etr and see if you have any comments ivana so what we're showing here is a two-dimensional chart we like to show this uh very frequently it's based on a survey of between a thousand and fifteen hundred chief information officers and technology buyers every quarter this is from their most recent july survey the vertical axis shows net score which is a measure of spending momentum i mean this it measures the net percentage of customers in the survey that are spending more on a particular product or platform in other words it essentially subtracts the percentage of customers spending less from those spending more which yields a net score it's more granular than that but basically that's what it does the horizontal axis is market share or pervasiveness in the data set it's not revenue market share like you get from idc it's it's a mention market share and now that red dotted line at the 40 percent mark on the vertical represents an elevated level in other words anything above 40 percent we consider notable and we've plotted our three by the dip companies and included some of their competitors for context and you can see we added salesforce servicenow and oracle and that orange ellipse because they're some of the bigger names in the software business so let's take these in alphabetical order ivana starting with koopa in the blue you can see we plotted them next to sap's ariba and you can see cooper has stronger spending momentum but not as much presence in the market so to me my influence is oh that's an opportunity for them to steal share more modern technology you know more facile and of course oracle has products in this space but the oracle dot includes all oracle products not just the procurement stuff but uh maybe your thoughts on this absolutely i love this chart i think that's your spot on this would be the same way i would interpret the chart where um increased spending momentum is is a sign of the company providing products that people like and we we expect to see cooper's share grow market share grow over time as well so let's come back to the chart and i want to i want to really point out the green ellipse this is the data zone if you will uh and we're like a broken record on this program with snowflake has performed unbelievably well in net score and spending momentum every quarter the dtr has captured enough end sample in its survey holding near or above 80 percent its net score consistently is has been up there and we've plotted data bricks in that zone it's been expected right that data bricks is going to do an ipo this year late last month company raised 1.6 billion in a private round so i guess that was either a strategy to delay the ipo or raise a bunch more cash and give late investors a low risk bite at the apple you know pre-ipo as we saw with snowflake last year what we didn't plot here are some of snowflake's biggest competitors ivana who also happen to be their partners most notably the big cloud players all who have their own database offerings aws microsoft and google now you've said snowflake is much more than a database company i wonder if you could add some color here yeah that's a very good point david uh basically the the driver of the thesis in snowflake is all about acceleration and spending and what we are seeing is the customers that are signed up on their platform today they're not even spending they're probably spending less than five percent of what they can ultimately spend on this product and the reason is because they don't yet know what the ultimate applications are for this right so you're gonna start with putting the data in a format you can use and you need to come up with use cases or how are you actually going to use this data so back to the example that i gave with answers the first use case that they found was trying to optimize leads there could be like 100 other use cases and they're coming up with with those on a daily basis so i would expect um this score to keep keep uh keep up pretty high or or go even higher as we as people figure out how they can use this product you know the buy-the-dip thesis on snowflake was great last quarter because the stock pulled back after they announced earnings and when we reported we said you know mike the the company see well cleveland research came out remember they got the dip on that and we looked at the data and we said mike scarpelli said that you know we're going to probably as a percentage of overall customers decelerate the net net new logos but we're going deeper into the customer base and that's exactly what's happening with with snowflake but okay let's bring up the slide again last but not least the z scaler we love z scalar we named z scaler in 2019 as an emerging four-star security company along with crowdstrike and octa and we said these three should be on your radar and as you see we've plotted z scalar with octa who with its it's its recent move into to converging identity and governance uh it gets kind of interesting uh we plotted them with palo alto as well another cyber security player that we've covered extensively we love octa in addition to z-scaler we great respect for palo alto and you'll note all of them are over that 40 percent line these are disruptors they're benefiting well not so much palo alto they're more legacy but the the other two are benefiting from that shift to work from home cloud security modern tech stack uh the acquisition that octa-made of of of auth0 and again z scalar cloud security getting rid of a lot of hardware uh really has a huge tailwind at its back if on a zscaler you know they've benefited from the huge my cloud migration trend what are your thoughts on the company so i actually love all three companies that are there right and the point is people are just going to spend more money whether you are on the cloud of the cloud the data centers need more security as well so i think there is a strong case to be made for all three with this scaler the upside is that it's just very easy to use very easy to implement and if you're somebody that is just setting up infrastructure on the cloud there is no reason for you to call any other competitor right with palo alto the case there is that if you have an established um security platfor if you're on their security platform the databa on the data center side uh they they did introduce through several acquisitions a pretty attractive cloud offering as well so they've been gaining share as well in the space and and the company does look pretty attractive on valiation basis so for us cyber security is really all about rising tide lifts all boats here right so you can have a pure play like this scaler uh that benefits from the cloud but even somebody like palo alto is pretty well positioned um to benefit yeah we think so too over a year ago we reported on the valuation divergence between palo alto and fortinet fortinet was doing a better job moving to the cloud and obviously serves more of a mid-market space palo alto had some go-to-market execution challenges we said at the time they're going to get through those and when we talk to chief information security officers palo alto is like the gold standard they're the thought leader they want to work with them but at the same time they also want to participate in some of these you know modern cloud stacks so i we agree there's plenty of room for all three um just to add a bit more color and drill into the spending data a little bit more this slide here takes that net score and shows the progression since january 2019 and you can see a snowflake just incredible in terms of its ability to maintain that elevated net score as we talked about and the table on the insert it shows you the number of responses and all three of these companies have been getting more mentions over time but snowflake and z scale are now both well over 100 n in the survey each quarter and the other notable piece here and this is really important you can see all three are coming out of the isolation economy with the spending uptick nice upticks shown in the most recent survey so that's again another positive but i want to close ivana with kind of making the bull and bear case and have you address really the risks to the buy the dip scenario so look there are a lot of reasons to like these companies we talked about them cooper they've got earnings momentum you know management on the call side had very strong end market demand this the stock you know has underperformed the nasdaq you know this year snowflake and zscaler they also have momentum snowflake get this enormous tam uh although they were punished for not putting a hard number on it which is ridiculous in my opinion i mean the thing is it's huge um the investors were just kind of you know wanting a little binky baby blanket but they all have modern tech in the cloud and really importantly this shows in the etr surveys you know the momentum that they have so very high retention is the other point i wanted to make the very very low churn of these companies however cooper's management despite the blowout quarter they gave kind of underwhelming guidance they've cited headwinds uh they've with the the the lamisoft uh migration to their cloud platform snowflake is kind of like price to perfection so maybe that's an advantage because every every little negative news is going to going to cause the company to dip but it's you know it's pretty high value because salutman and scarpelli everybody expects them to surpass what happened at servicenow which was a rocket ship and it could be all argued that all three are richly priced and overvalued so but ivana you're looking out as you said a couple of years three years maybe even five years how do you think about the potential downside risks in in your by the dip scenario you buy every dip you looking for bigger dips or what's your framework there so what we try to do is really look every quarter the company reports is there something that's driving fundamental change to the story or is it a one-off situation where people are just misunderstanding what the company is reporting so in the case we kind of addressed some of the earnings that that were reported but with koopa we think the man that management is guiding conservatively as they should so we're not very concerned about their ability to execute on on the guidance and and to exceed the guidance with snowflake price to perfection that's never a good idea to avoid a stock uh because it just shows that there is the company is doing a great job executing right so um we are looking for reports like the cleveland report where they would be like negative on the stock and that would be an entry point uh for us so broadly we apply by the deep philosophy but not not if something fundamentally changes in the story and none of these three are showing any signs of fundamental change okay we're going to leave it right there thanks to my guest today ivana tremendous having you would love to have you back great to see you thank you david and def you definitely want to check out sprx and the spear etf now remember i publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com these episodes they're all available as podcasts all you do is search breaking analysis podcasts you can always connect with me on twitter i'm at d vallante or email me at david.vellante at siliconangle.com love the comments on linkedin don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante cios in the most recent september etr spending survey tell us that they expect a slight sequential improvement in q4 spending relative to q3 but still down four percent from q4 2019 so this picture is still not pretty but it's not bleak either to whit firms are adjusting to the new abnormal and are taking positive actions that can be described as a slow thawing of the deep freeze hello everyone this is dave vellante and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we're going to review fresh survey data from etr and provide our outlook for both q4 of 2020 and into 2021. now we're still holding at our four to five percent decline in tech spending for 2020 but we do see light at the end of the tunnel with some cautions specifically more than a thousand cios and it buyers have we've surveyed expect tech spending to show a slight upward trend of roughly two percent in 2021. this is off of a q4 decline of 4 relative to q4 2019 but i would put it this way a slightly less worse decline sequentially from q3 last quarter we saw a 5 decline in spending okay so generally more of the same but things seem to be improving again with caveats now in particular we'll show data that suggests technology project freezes are slowly coming back and we see remote workers returning at a fairly significant rate however executives expect nearly double the percentage of employees working remotely in the midterm and even long term than they did pre-covert that suggests that the work from home trend is not cyclical but showing signs of permanence and why not cios report that on balance productivity has been maintained or even improved during covit now of course this all has to be framed in the context of the unknowns like the fall and even winter surge what about fiscal policy there's uncertainty in the election social unrest all right so let's dig into some of the specifics of the etr data now i mentioned uh the number of respondents at over a thousand i have to say this was predominantly a us-based survey so it's it's 80 sort of bias to the u.s and but it's also weighted to the big spenders in larger organizations with a nice representation across industries so it's good data here now you can see here the slow progression of improvement relative to q3 which as i said was down five percent year-on-year with the four percent decline expected in q4 now etr is calling for a roughly four percent decline for the year you know i've been consistently in the four to five percent decline range and agree with that outlook and you can see cios are planning for a two percent uptick in 2021 as we said at the open now in our view this represents some prudent caution and i think there's probably some upside but it's a good planning assumption for the market overall in my view now let's look at some of the actions that organizations are taking and how that's changed over time you can see here that organizations they're slowly releasing that grip on tech spending overall you know still no material change in employees working from home or traveling we can see that hiring freezes are down that's that's positive in the green as our new i.t deployment freezes and a slight uptick in acceleration of new deployments now as well you see fewer companies are planning layoffs and while small the percent of companies adding head count has doubled from last quarter's you know minimal number all right so this is based on survey data at the end of the summer so it reflects that end of summer sentiment so we got to be a little bit cautious here and i think cios are you know by nature cautious on their projections of two percent up in 2021. now importantly remember this does not get us back to 20 20 19 spending levels so we may be seeing a kind of a long slow climb out of this you know tepid market maybe 2022 gets back over 2019 before we start to see sustained growth again and remember these recoveries are rarely smooth they're not straight lines so you got to expect some choppiness with you know some pockets of opportunity which we'll discuss here in this slide we're showing the top areas that respondents cited as spending priorities for q4 and into 2021 so the chart shows the ratings based on a seven-point scale and these are the top spending initiatives heading into the year end now as we've been saying for the better part of a decade cyber security is a do-over and i've joked you know if it ain't broke don't fix it well coven broke everything and cyber is an area that's seeing long-term change in my opinion endpoint security identity access management cloud security security as a service these are all trends that we're seeing as really major waves as a result of covid now it's coming at the expense of large install bases of things like traditional hardware-based firewalls and we've talked about this a lot in previous segments cloud migration is interesting and i really think it needs some interpretation i mean nobody likes to do migrations so i would suggest this includes things like i have a bunch of people answering phones and offices or i had and then overnight boom the offices are closed so i needed a cloud-based solution i didn't just lift and ship my shift my entire phone routing system you know from the office into the cloud but i probably pivoted to a cloud solution to support those work from home employees now my guess is i think that would be included in these responses i mean i do know an example of an insurance company that did migrate its claims application to the cloud during coven but this was something that they were you know planning to do pre-covered and i guess the point here is twofold again like i said migrations are hairy nobody wants to do them and i think this category really means i'm increasing my use of the cloud so i'm kind of migrating my my operations over time to the cloud all right look at collaboration no shocker here we've pounded you know zoom and webex to death analytics is really interesting we have talked extensively uh and have been covering snowflake and we pointed out that there's a new workload that has emerged in the cloud it's not just snowflake you know there are others aws redshift google with bigquery and and others but snowflake is the off the charts you know hot ipo and so we we talk a lot about it but it relates to this easy setup and access to a data layer with having you know requisite security and governance and this market is exploding adding ai on top and really doing this in the cloud so you can scale it up or down and really only pay for what you need that's a real benefit to people compare that to the traditional edw snake swallowing a basketball i got to get every new intel chip you're not dialing up down down you're over provisioning and half the time you're not using you know half most of the time you're not utilizing what you've paid for all right look at networking you know traffic patterns changed overnight with covet ddos attacks are up 25 to 40 percent uh since coven cyber attacks overall are up 400 percent this year so these all have impacts on the network machine learning and ai i talked about a little bit earlier about that but organizations are realizing that infusing ai into the application portfolio it's becoming really an imperative much more important as the automation mandate that we've talked about becomes more acute people you can't scale humans at this at the pace of technology so automation becomes much more important that of course leads us to rpa now you might think rpa should be a higher priority but i think what's happening here is i t organizations they were scrambling to plug holes in the dike rpa is somewhat more strategic and planful our data suggests that rpa remains one of the most elevated spending categories in terms of net score etr's measure of spending momentum so this means way more people are spending more than spending less in the rpa category so it really has a lot of legs in fact with the exception of container orchestration i think rpa is a sector that has the highest net score i think you'll see that in the upcoming surveys it's as high or even higher than ai i think it's higher than cloud it's just that it remember this is an it survey and a lot of the rpa stuff is going on at the business level but it had to keep the ship afloat when coveted hit which somewhat shifted priorities but but rpa remains strong now let's go back uh to the work from home trend for a moment i know it's been been played out and kind of beat on really heavily covered but i got to tell you etr was the very first on this trend it was way back in march and the data here is instructive it shows that the percentage of employees working from home prior to cor covid currently working from home the percent expected in six months and then those expected essentially permanently and this is primarily work from home versus yeah i don't work a day or two per week it's really the the five day a week i i work remotely as you can see only 16 percent of employees were working from home pre pandemic whereas more than 70 percent are at home today and cios they actually see a meaningful decline in that number over the next six months you know we'll see based on how covid comes back and you know this fall and winter surge and how will that will affect these plans but look what it does long term it settles in at like 34 percent that's double pre-covet so really a meaningful and permanent impact is expected from the isolation economy that we're in today and again why not look at this data it shows the distribution of productivity improvements so that while 23 of respondents said work from home productivity impacts were neutral nearly half i think it was 48 if you add up those bars on the right nearly half are seeing productivity improvements well less than 30 percent see a decline in productivity and you can see the etr quants they peg the average gain at between three and five percent that's pretty significant now of course not everyone can work from home if you're working at a restaurant you really you know unless you're in finance you really can't work from home but we're seeing in this digital economy with cloud and other technologies that we actually can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and many employees are going to look at work from home options as a benefit you know it was just a couple years ago remember that we were talking about companies like ibm and yahoo who mandated coming into the office i mean that was like 2017 2018 time frame well that trend is over now let me give you a quick preview of some of the other things that we're seeing and what the etr data shows now let me also say i'm just scratching the surface here etr has deep deep data cuts they have the sas platform allows you to look at the data all different ways and if you're not working with them you should be because the data gets updated so frequently every quarter there's new data there's drill down surveys and it's forward-looking so you know a lot of the survey data or a lot of the data that we use market share data and other data are sort of looking back you know you use your sales data your sales forecast that's obviously forward-looking but but the etr survey data can actually give an observation space outside of your sales force and no i'm not getting paid by etr but but it's been such a valuable resource i want to make it available and make the community aware of it all right so let's do a little speed round on on some of the the vendors of interest that we've talked about in the last several segments last couple years actually many years decade anyway start with aws aws continues to be strong but they they have less momentum than microsoft this is sort of a recurring pattern here but aws churn is low low low not a lot of people leaving the aws platform despite what we hear about this repatriation trend data warehousing is a little bit soft whereas we see snowflake very very strong but aws share is really strong inside of large companies so cloud and teams and security are strong from microsoft whereas data warehouse and ai aren't as robust as we've seen before but but microsoft azure cloud continues to see a little bit more momentum than aws so we'll watch that next quarter for aws earnings call now google has good momentum and they're steady especially in cloud database ai and analytics we've talked a lot about how google's behind the big two but nonetheless they're showing good good momentum servicenow very low churn but they're kind of hitting the law of large numbers still super strong in large accounts but not the same red hot hat red hot momentum as we've seen in the past octa is showing continued momentum they're holding you know close to number one or that top spot in security that we talked about last time no surprise given the increased importance of identity access management that we've been talking about so much crowdstrike last survey in july they showed some softness despite a good quarter and and we we're seeing continued to sell it to deceleration in the survey now that's from extremely elevated levels but it's significantly down from where crowdstrike was at the height of the lockdown i mean we like the sector of endpoint security and crowdstrike is definitely a leader there and you know well-managed company company but you know maybe they got hit with uh with you know a quick covet injection with with a step up function that's maybe moderating somewhat you know maybe there's some competition you know vmware freezing the market with carbon black i i really don't see that i think it's it's it's you know maybe there's some survey data isn't reflective of of what what crowdstrike is seeing we're going to see in the upcoming earnings release but it's something that we're watching very closely you know two survey snapshots with crowdstrike being a little bit softer it doesn't make a sustained trend but we would have liked to seen you know a little bit stronger this this quarter the data's still coming in so we'll see sale point is one we focused on recently and we see very little negative in their numbers so they're holding solid z scalar showing pretty strong momentum and while there was some concern last survey within large organizations it seemed that might have been a survey anomaly because z scalar they had a strong quarter a good outlook and we're seeing a strong recovery in the most recent data so it also looks like z z scaler is pressuring some of palo alto network's dominance and momentum heading into the quarter so we'll pay close attention to that we've said we like palo alto networks but they're so big uh they've got some exposures but they can offset those you know and they're doing a better job in cloud with their pricing models and sort of leaning into some of the the market waves uh sale point appears to be holding serve you know heading into the fourth quarter snowflake i mean what can we say it continues to show some of the strongest spending momentum going into q4 and into 2021 no signs of slowing down they're going to have their first earnings reports coming up you know in a few months so i i got to believe they got it together and and they're going to be strong reports uipath and momentum is is slowing down a bit but existing customers keep spending with ui path and there's very few defections so it looks like their land and expand is working pretty well automation anywhere continues to be strong despite comments about the sector earlier which showed you know maybe it wasn't as high a priority some other sectors but as i said you know it's still really really strong strong in terms of momentum and automation anywhere in uipath they continue to battle it out for the the top spot within the data set within the automation data set well i should say within rpa i mean companies like pega systems have a broader automation agenda and we really like their strategy and their execution databricks you know hot company once a hot company and still hot but we're seeing a little bit of a deceleration in the survey even though new customer acquisition is quite strong put it this way databricks is strong but not the off the chart outperformer that it used to be this is how etr frame that their analysis so i want to obviously credit that to them datadog showing the most strength in the application performance management or monitoring sector whichever you prefer but generally the the net scores in that sector as we talked about last week they're not great as a sector when you compare it to other leading sectors like cloud or automation rpa as an example container orchestration you know apm is kind of you know significantly lower it's not it's not as low as some of the on-prem on-prem infrastructure or some of the on-prem software but you know given datadog's high valuation it's somewhat of a concern so keep an eye on that mongodb you know they got virtually no customer churn but they're losing some momentum in terms of net score in the survey which is something we're keeping an eye on and a big downtick in in large organization acquisitions within the data so in other words they had a lot of new acquisitions within large companies but that's down now again that could be anomalies in the data i don't want to you know go to the bank on that necessarily but that's something to watch zoom they keep growing but etr data cites a churn of actually up to seven percent due to some security concerns so that was widely reported in the press and somewhere slower velocity for zoom overall due to possible competition from microsoft teams but i tell you it has an amazing stat that etr threw out pre-cove at zoom penetration in the education vertical was 15 today it's over 80 percent wowza cisco cisco's core is weak as we've said you've seen that in their earnings numbers it's it's there's softness there but security meraki those are two areas that remain strong same kind of similar story to last quarter survey pure storage you know they're the the high flyer they're like the one-eyed man in the land of the the storage blind so storage you know not a great market we've talked about that we've seen some softness in the the data set from uh in pure storage and really often sympathy with the generally back burner storage market you know again they they still outperforming their peers but we've seen slower growth rates there in the in in the survey and that's been reflected in their earnings uh so we've been talking about that for a while really keeping an eye on on on pure they made some acquisitions trying to expand their market enough said about that rubric rubric's interesting they kind of were off the charts in a couple surveys ago and they really come off of those highs you know anecdotally we're hearing some concerns in in the market it's hard to tell the private company cohesity has overtaken rubric and spending momentum now for the second quarter in a row you know they're still not as prevalent in the data set we'd like to see more ends from cohesity remember this is sort of a random sample across multiple industries we let the or etr lets the the respondents tell them what they're buying and what they're spending on you know but because cohesity has the highest net score relative to to compares like rubric like veeam you know i even threw in when i looked at nutanix pure dell emcs vxrail those are not direct competitors but they're you know kind of quasi compares if you will new relic they're showing some concerning trends on churn and the company is way off its 2018 momentum highs in the survey and we talked about this last week some of the challenges new relic is facing but we like their tech the nrdb is purpose-built for monitoring and performance management and we feel like you know they can retain their leadership if they can can pull it together we talked about elliott management being in there so that's something that we're watching red hat is showing strength in open shift really really strong ibm you know services exposure uh it's it's not the greatest business in the world right now at the same time there's there's crosswinds there at the same time people you know need some services and they need some help there but the certainly the outsourcing business so there's you know countervailing you know crosswinds uh within ibm but openshift bright spot i i think you know when i look at at the the red hat acquisition yeah 34 billion but but it's it's pretty obvious why ibm made that move um but anyway ibm's core business continues to be under under pressure that's why red hat is such an important component which brings me to vmware vmware has been an execution machine they had vmworld this past week uh we talked last month about the strength of vmware cloud on aws and it's still strong and and vmware cloud portfolio with vmware cloud foundation and other offerings but other than tanzu vmware is in this october survey of the first first look shows some deceleration really across the board you know one potential saving grace etr shared with me is that the fortune 500 spending for vmware is stronger so maybe on a spend basis when i say stronger stronger stronger than the mean so maybe on a spend basis vmware is okay but there seems to be some potential exposure there you know we won't know for sure until late next year uh how the dell reshuffle is going to affect them but it's going to be interesting to see how dell restructures vmware's balance sheet to get its own house in order and remember dell wants to get to investment grade for its own balance sheet yet at the same time it wants to keep vmware at investment grade but the interesting thing to watch is what impact that's going to have on vmware's ability to fund its future and we're not going to know that for a long long time but you know we'll keep an eye on on those developments now dell for its part showing strength and work from home and also strengthen giant public and privates which is a bellwether in the etr data set uh you know these are huge private companies for example uh koch industries would be one you know massive private companies mars would be another example not necessarily that they're the ones responding although my guess is they are it's it's anonymous but actually etr actually knows and they can identify who those bell weathers are and it's been a it's been a predictor of performance for the last you know better part of a decade so we'll see vxrail is strong um you know servers and storage they're they're still muted relative to last year but not really down from july so you know holding on dell holding on to it to to a tepid spending outlook they got such huge exposure on-prem you know so on balance i wouldn't expect you know a barn burner out of dell you know but they got a big portfolio and they've got a lot of a lot of options there and remember they still have the the still have they have a pc uh business unlike hpe which i'll talk about in in in a moment talk about now aruba is the bright spot for hpe but servers and storage those seem to be off you know similar to dell uh but but but maybe even down further i think you know dell is kind of holding relative to last quarter survey you know down from earlier this year and certainly down from from last year uh but hpe seems to be on a steeper downward trajectory uh in storage and service from the survey you know we'll see again you know one one snapshot quarter this is not a trend to make uh but again storage looks particularly soft which is a bit of a concern and we saw that you know in hpe's numbers you know last quarter um customer acquisition is strong for nutanix but overall spending is decelerating versus a year ago levels uh we know about the 750 million dollar injection uh from from bain capital basically you know in talking to bain what essentially they're doing is they they're betting on upside in the hyper-converged marketplace it's true that from a penetration standpoint there's a long long way to go and it's also true that nutanix is shifting from a you know perpetual model you know boom by the the capex to a in an annual occurring revenue model and they kind of need a bridge of cash to sort of soften that blow we've seen companies like tableau make that transition adobe successfully made that transition splunk is in that transition now and it's you know kind of funky for them but at any rate you know within that infrastructure software and virtualization sectors you know nutanix is showing some softness but in things like storage actually nutanix looking pretty strong very strong actually so again this theme of of these crosswinds uh supporting some companies whereas they're exposed in other areas you certainly see that with large companies and and nutanix looks like it's got some momentum in some areas and you know challenges in in others okay so that's just a quick speed dating round with some of the vendor previews for the upcoming survey so i just want to summarize now and we'll wrap so we see overall tech spending off four to five percent in 2020 with a slightly less bad slightly less bad q4 sequentially relative to q3 all this is relative to last year so we see continued headwinds coming into 2021 expect low single-digit spending growth next year let's call it two percent and there are some clear pockets of growth taking advantage of what we see is a more secular work from home trend particularly in security although we're watching some of the leaders shift positions cloud despite the commentary earlier remains very very strong aws azure google red hat open shift serverless kubernetes analytic cloud databases all very very strong automation also stands out as as a a priority in what we think is the coming decade with an automation mandate and some of the themes we've talked about for a long time particularly the impact of cloud relative to on-prem you know we don't see this so-called repatriation as much of a trend as it is a bunch of fun from on-prem vendors that don't own a public cloud so just you just don't see it i mean i'm sure there are examples of oh we did something in the cloud we lifted and shifted it didn't work out we didn't change our operating model okay but the the number of successes in cloud is like many orders of magnitude you know greater than the numbers of failures on the plus side however the for the on-prem guys the hybrid and multi-cloud spaces are increasingly becoming strategic for customers so that's something that i've said for a long time particularly with multi-cloud we've kind of been waiting it's been a lot of vendor power points but that really we talked to customers now they're hedging their bets in cloud they're they're putting horses for courses in terms of workloads they're they're they're not betting their business necessarily on a single cloud and as a result they need security and governance and performance and management across clouds that's consistent so that's actually a a really reasonable and significant opportunity for a lot of the on-prem vendors and as we've said before they're probably not necessarily going to trust the cloud players the public cloud players to deliver that they're going to want somebody that's cloud agnostic okay that's it for this week remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action and the analytics these guys are amazing i always appreciate the comments on my linkedin posts thank you very much you can dm me at d vallante or email me at david.volante at siliconangle.com and this is dave vellante thanks for watching this episode of cube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time you

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back. I'm stew Minuteman. And this is the Cube coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year covering the show. And of course, networking has been a big growth story. Four vm where for a number years, going back to the Neisseria acquisition for over billion dollars. Really leveraging all of the virtual networking and SD wins been another hot topic. A couple years ago, it was the Velo Cloud acquisition. And now happy to welcome to the program two of the Velo Cloud business executives. First of all, we have Sanjay you Paul. He is the senior vice president and general manager of that mentioned division of VM Ware. Enjoining him is Craig Connors, whose the vice president and chief technology officer for that same division he was the chief architect of fellow Cloud Craig Sanjay. Thank you for joining us. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Alright, So, Sanjay, first of all nice, you know, call outs and a lot of news that we're gonna get to dig into in the morning Keynote you know Pat Sanjay the team. Uh, you know, a couple of years ago, Pat talked about, you know, the next billion dollar businesses networking your team helping toe add to that. And, ah, a new term thrown out that we're gonna get to talk a little bit about. Our friends at Gartner termed it sassy. So I'll let you, you know, explain a little bit the news that this wonderful new four letter acronym that the Gartner spots that us. Um, why don't you start us there? >>Yeah. I couldn't be more excited to be here at VM World announcing this expansion of what's going on in Ste. Van. So I see Van was all about bringing branch office users to their applications and doing that in a really efficient manner, throwing out all those complex hardware appliances and simplifying everything with software, increasing the quality of experience for the user. But now what has happened is, you know they want security to be dealt off in the same way. Same simplicity and automation, same great user experience. And at the same time, you know, blocking all these attacks that are coming in from various places and covert has just driven that even more meaning that you need to get to networking and network security to be brought together in this simple and automated way while keeping the end user experience be great on while giving I t what they need, which is high security and good manageability. So this acronym sassy, secure access Service edge It really is the bringing together off net networking and network security both as a service. That service angle is really important. And the exciting part about what we're announcing at the at we'd be involved. Here is the expansion off the S, Stephen Pops and Gateways into becoming Sassy pops. And now customers can get a whole slew of services both networking and network security services from the anyway. So that's the announcement. >>Wonderful, Craig. You know, since since since you've helped with so much of the architecture here, I wanna kick out a little bit. When? When it comes to the security stuff that Sandy was talking about. I remember dealing back with land optimization solutions, trying to remember. Okay, wait. When can I compress? When can I encrypt? You know what do I lay on top of it? Um, SD when you know fits into this story, help us understand. What does you Novello Cloud do? What is it from the partner ecosystem? You know, So you know there's there's some good partners that you have helping us. Help us understand. You know what exactly we mean because security is such a broad term. >>Yeah, thanks. So there's four components in the sassy pop that we're bringing together. Obviously, VM Ware Ston is one of those Sanjay mentioned the changing workforce. We have off net users that aren't coming from behind Stu and Branch Mawr and Mawr today. So we also have secure access powered by our workspace. One solution that's bringing those remote users into the sassy pop and then two different security solutions. Secure Web gateway functionality. And that is the next generation secure Web gateway that includes things like DLP and remote browser isolation. And as you saw in the news today that's powered through ROM agreement with Menlo Security. And then we have next Gen firewall ing for securing corporate traffic. And that's powered by our own VM Ware NSX firewall, which has been recently augmented with our last line acquisition. So those are the four key components coming together within our sassy pop. And of course, we also have our continued partnership with the scaler for our our large joint via Mersey Scaler customer base to facilitate that security solution as well. >>Yeah. So, Sanjay, maybe it would make sense. As you said, you've got ah, portfolio now in this market, Uh, got v d I You've got edge walk us. Or if you could, some of the most important use cases for your business. >>Yeah. So you know the use case that has taken off in the last several years since the advent of SD. When is to get sites? So these would be branch offices and a branch office could be an agricultural field. It could be a plane. It could be an oil rig. You know, it could be any one of these. This is a branch office. So these sites how to get them connected to the applications that they need to get access to so telemedicine example. So how do you get doctors, diagnosticians and all that that are sitting in their clinics and hospitals? You get great access to the applications on the applications can be anywhere they don't have to be back in your data centers. You know, after data center consolidation happened, some of the apse you know, we're in the data centers. But then, after the cloud advent came, then the apse were everywhere there in the public cloud, both in I s as well as in SAS. And then now they're moving back towards the edge because of the advent of edge computing. So that's really the primary use case that s Stephen has been all about. And that's where you know, we have staked a claim to be the leader in that space. Now, with Covic, the use cases are expanding and obviously with work from home, you take the same telemedicine example. The doctors and diagnosticians who used to work from hospitals and clinics now have to get it done when they're working from the home. And, of course, this is a business critical app. And so what do you do? How do you get these folks who are at home to get the same quality of experience, the same security, the same manageability, but at the same time, you cannot disturb the other people who are working from home because that is an entire ecosystem. You serve the business user, but you also serve the needs off the home users keeping privacy in mind. So these two cases branch access and then remote access, which great talked about these are the primary use cases, and then they break down by vertical. So depending on whether it's health or it's federal or its manufacturing or its finance, then you have sub use cases underneath that. But this is how we from a from a V C n standpoint, you know, claimed to have 17,000 customers that have deployed our networking solutions. Ah, large fraction of those being our stu and solutions today. >>Yeah. Okay, Craig, one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot in the industry iss scale. I look at certain parts of the market, you know, say kubernetes kubernetes was about, you know, bringing together lots of sites. But now we're spending a lot of time talking about edge, which is a whole different scale. Same thing if you talk about devices and I o t can you speak to us a little bit about, you know, fundamentally, You know that branch architecture, I think, set you up well, but when I start thinking about EJ, it probably is. You know, uh, you know, larger number and some different challenges. So So maybe maybe some differences that happen to happen in the code to make that happen? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you know, we've been fortunate in the success that we've had in RST ran deployments. More than 280,000 branches deployed with RST ran solution. So scale is something that's been near and dear to our heart from the beginning. How do you build a multi tenant service in the cloud? How do you build cloud scale? And we brought that aspect into all of these components through container ization, as you mentioned through horizontal scalability, bringing them into our own dedicated pops. Where we control the hardware we control the hyper visor, obviously built on top of the m r E. S s. I that allows us to deliver scale in a way that other competitors may not be able to achieve. >>Yeah, son Sanjay, it's been a couple of years since the acquisition by VM Ware. Give us a little bit of an update, if you would as to, you know, what I'm sure. Obviously, customer reach on adoption greatly increased by by the channel and go to market. But, you know, directionally And you know, any difference in use cases that that you've seen now being part of the M R. >>Yeah, absolutely. No. There's there's been an expansion in the use cases, which is why this fit was very good, meaning Vela Cloud being a part of VM way. So if you look at it, what the wider network does, where the place where you know ties, we tie it all together and tie walk together. If you look at the end User computing, which Greg was mentioning, the clients are digital workspace, workspace. One client. Well, those clients now will connect to our sassy pop. So that's one tie in that obviously we couldn't have and we were an independent company. The other side of it, when you go from the sassy pop into the data center, then we tie into NSX. Not just that the Cloud firewall, but in the data center itself so we can extend micro segmentation. So that's another kid use case that is becoming prevalent. Then the third aspect of this is really when you run inside telecom operators and VM Ware has a very robust business as it goes after telcos with the software stack and so running our gateways running our sassy pops at the telco environment, then gets us to integrate with what's going on with our telecom business unit. We also have what we're doing on our visibility and Tellem entry perspective. So we had acquired a company called Neons A, which were crafting into on edge network intelligence product that then fits into VM Ware's overall. For in the space we have, ah, product suite called We Realize Network Insight. And so that network inside, combined with what we're doing from from a business unit standpoint, gives customers an end to end view from from an individual client through the cloud, even up to an individual container. And so we call this client to cloud to container. All of this is possible because we're part of VM Ware. In the last piece of this is something that's gonna happen. We believe next year, which is edge computing when edge computing comes in. You know, I jokingly say to my team this acronym of Sassy, which is s a s e you gotta insert of sea in the middle. So it becomes s a CSE and out of that pronounced that says sacks E. So I know it sounds a little bit awkward, but that c stands for the compute. So as you put compute in the computer is going to run in the edge, the computer that's going to run in the pop and the sassy is gonna become, you know, sexy. And who better to give that to you than VM Ware? Because, you know, we have that management stack that controls compute for customers today. >>Well, definitely. I think you're you're you're drawing from the Elon Musk school of You know how to name acronyms in products Do so sometimes It's really interesting. Uh, Craig, talk us a little a little bit about that vision to get there, you know? What do we need to do as an industry? How's the product mature? Give us a little bit of that. That that roadmap forward, if you would >>Yeah, I think you know Sassy is really the convergence of five key things. One is this distributed pop architecture. Er So how do you deliver this? Compute and these services near to the customers premise. And that's something that companies like us have have had years of experience and building out. And then the four key components of sassy that we have, you know, zero trust access S t u N next generation firewall ing and secure Web Gateway. We're fortunate, as Sanjay said, to be part of the M where where we don't have to invent some of these components because we already have a works based one and we already have the NSX distributed firewall. And we already have the m r s d when and so ah, lot of companies you'll see are trying to to put all of these parts together. We already had them in house. We're putting them under one umbrella, the one place where we didn't have a technology within VM Ware. That's where we're leveraging these partnerships with memo and see scaler to get it done. >>Sanjay e think the telco use case that you talked about is really important One we've definitely seen, you know, really good adoption from from VM Ware working in those spaces. One place I I wanna understand, though, if you look at vcf and how that moves. Thio ws toe Azure, even toe Oracle's talked about in the keynote this morning. How does SD win fit into just that kind of traditional hybrid cloud deployment we've been talking about for the last couple of years? >>Yeah, that's a great question. So, you know, when you look at Ste Van, that name can notes software defined, but it doesn't. It's not specific to branch office access at all. And when you look at DCF, what VCF is doing is really modernizing your compute stack. And now you can run this modern compute stack of your own data centers. You can run it in the private cloud. You can run it on the public cloud as well, right? So you can put these tax on Amazon, azure, Google and and then run them. So what an STV in architecture allows you to do is not just get your branch and secure users to access the applications that are running on those computes tax. But you can also intermediate between them. So when customers come in and they say that they want simplified networking and security between two public cloud providers, this is the multi cloud use case, then getting that networking toe work in a seamless fashion with high security can be done by an S Stephen architectures. And our sassy pop is perfectly situated to do that. And all you would need to do is add virtual services at the sassy pop. An enterprise customer would come in and they say they want some peanuts here and some VP CS there they want to look at them in an automated fashion. They want to set it up, you know, with the point and click architectures and not have to do all this manual work, and we can get that done. So there's a there's a really good fit between Sassy s Stephen and where VCF is going to solve the multi cloud problem that people are having right now. >>Excellent. I really appreciate that. That that explanation last thing, I guess I'll ask is, you know, here at VM World, I'm sure you've got a lot of breakouts. You've probably got some good customers sharing some of their stories. So anonymous if it has to be. But we would love if you've got either views of some examples, uh, to help bring home that the value that your solutions are delivering. >>Great. When I start with one and then creek and fill in the other one, eso let me start off with the telemedicine example. So we have, you know, customer called M. D. Anderson Cancer Center. And these are the folks in in Texas, and they provide a really, really important service. And that service is, you know, providing patients who are critically ill to give them all the kinds of services, whether they come into the clinic or whether they're across a network connection. And they're radiologists and doctors air sitting at home. So I think it's very important use case and, you know, we started off by deploying in the hospitals and the clinics. But when Cove, it hit there to send a lot of these folks to work from home, and then when they work from home, it's really this device that goes in which you can see here. This is our Belo cloud edge. And this, um, has said in one of the my my favorite song says, There's nothing this box can't do. All right, so this box goes home into the, you know, doctors home, and then they are talking to their patient, getting telemedicine done because it solves the problem off performance. Um, you know that some of those folks have literally said that this thing was a God sent. That's not very often that networking people, you know, have been told that their products are like godsend. So I'll take that to the limit of grain of salt. But we are solving a very important problems increasing the performance were also this is a secure device, so it's not gonna be hacked into and then makes things much more manageable from a nightie standpoint. So this is one of those use cases, and there's plenty of them. But Craig has his favorites all turn it over to him. >>There's so many I could bore you. I think you know one really interesting. One is a new investment banking company that we have is a customer, and they used to go work in the office five days a week, and everything that they did was on their computer in the office and with this pivot to work from home post Kobe, did they think their future is a flexible work workforce where sometimes there in the office and sometimes they're remote. And when the remote there are deep peeing into their desktop, that is sting in their office and with their like to remote access VPN solution, they had to connect, Say, I'm a user sitting in Southern California. I'm connecting my VPN to Chicago to then come across the network back to Los Angeles to get to my desktop so that I can work from home. And now with Sassy, my secure access client from workspace one connects to the closest asi pop I get to my desktop in my office. Tremendously lower, Leighton see tremendously higher quality to experience for the users, whether they're, you know, at home, on the road anywhere they need to access that device. >>Craig Sanjay, thank you so much. Love the customer example. Sanjay. Good job bringing out the box. Uh, show people It's a software world. But the sassy hardware is still needed at times, too. Thanks for joining us. All >>right. Thank you, Stew. Thanks. Great. Cheers. All >>right. Stay with us for more coverage of VM World 2020. I'm still minimum. Thanks. As always for watching the cube

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 20 >>20 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back to the cubes. Virtual coverage of VM World 2020 Virtual. Is the Cube virtual not there in person this year because of CO of it? I'm John for your host of the Cube. Got David wants to meet him in all the Cube folks covering, of course, with VM Ware and VM World 2022. Great guest here to talk about the future of the workforce solutions and the impact of network security and partnerships. Tom Gala, senior vice president general manager of networking and security business unit at VM Ware and put it, Men OSHA. Who's the VP of business development and corporate development at Z Scaler. Two great companies all doing extremely well as customers are dealing with Cove it And the reality is this market and putting plans in place for coming out with a growth strategy. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me today. >>Yeah, John, thanks for having us. >>Thanks for having us, >>Tom. I want to start with you. Actually, the partnership with the scaler is the discussion of this topic. But you guys do have some hard news around the future of workforce solutions. What's the hard news and has that relate to all this? >>Yeah, we sure do, John. So you know, networks were built in a very different time. Networks were built when work was a place that you came. Now, work is the thing that you do. Oftentimes you do from your living room or your den. As I am on DSO, it really calls into question some of the fundamental principles of how we build a deploy networks. In the old model, we would set up something like a branch office and we would back haul traffic using a dedicated circuit like an mpls circuit back, haul it to one of a handful of locations that we called the DMZ or Demilitarized and those locations where you would stitch together a security ensemble made out of dedicated hardware appliances, firewalls, Web proxies, I PS systems and the like And that model service? Well, Azan industry for many decades, three. I'd say 30 years. Um, all of a sudden, the whole notion of the workplace has changed and changed dramatically We're all living through that and experiencing it firsthand. And so the original model of back hauling traffic to some point in, you know, precipitating New Jersey so that you can run it through some magic black box because the model doesn't apply anymore. And so at the end, where we have a new vision for how we can take the security, the reliability, the performance that you get when you're on the corporate network and extended into people's homes. And this is in line with what industries air calling, sassy or secure access services edge. And so the news that we're announcing is we have a complete, sassy solution that involves zero trust access. It involves firewall I. D. S I. P s capability, Advanced security services and then importantly ah, very strong partnership with the scaler on. We can walk through how that works, but it's really driven by this new shape of the workplace. >>Put it, Talk about the partnership with VM where we've been following see scaler for a long time. What a great success story. Great technology team. Great business model growth in your marketplace. Congratulations on your success as you guys continue to grow the world has spun in this disruption kind of world we're in now. You guys are well poised for that. Talk about your partnership with VM Ware. >>Thanks, John. And thank you, Tom, for that quick overview. You know, just to play out this idea we started over it over a decade ago. The basic idea was you know, the users, uh, pretty much everywhere, and the applications are moving to the cloud. And so back to Tom's comment. You know, we had these networks where you were back hauling. Maybe I'll just give a very simple analogy the CIA off Nestle, you know, when he first deployed, uh, Z skater, you know, and and realized a tremendous amount of cost savings that a security. But then, more importantly, the employees off Nestle actually started blogging that the Internet had gotten faster. And when the CEO came to ah customer advisory board meeting, he made a very simple analogy. Imagine having to get out to the Internet through four major international airports worldwide. All right, so you couldn't drink directly traverse from point A to point B. But you have to transit through these four. It would be very inefficient it would really slow you down. And more often than not, you'll be complaining that was the old network architectural. And what we have chosen to do here from a security standpoint at sea Scaler, is make that security closer to the end user. Now we pride ourselves from a security standpoint, and we certainly need networking to also adapt to that. And that's where we have found our partnership with VM Ware, to be particularly strategic. We started partnering with VM were actually prior to them, acquiring Vettel Cloud, which is the software defined when, uh, networking provider, uh, just primarily because they were a cloud based networking player. And this idea off locally breaking out to the Internet Getting out to the end destination as quickly as possible is something that they did quite seamlessly. And so we started this journey, this partnership with them a few years ago and today at VM. Well, we're enhancing that, expanding the partnership not only from a product standpoint, but then, more importantly, we're leaning in from a sales go to market customer support standpoint. >>You know, that's a great point. What? I've been saying this in the queue for a while with the joke was, um the When is the new Land E? I mean, we used to have the old days, remember? Oh, campus connecting networks drive to the airport as you mentioned, the great analogy there, by the way, has to be better. People are working at home. You got technically a land un security, you know, working at home. People are realizing this. These core services have to change. It's not just connect to the Internet the old way. It's everywhere. It's networking everywhere. This is the reality of the kinds of Internet things that used to go on where it's kind of cool and secure. You know, you've got a perimeter. Everything was working. Great. Put it. You mentioned it. Why drive to the airport? Four airports with world. That's a great analogy, Tom. This points to the future. Ready concept, access anywhere. Services that are needed for the security and, more importantly, the user experience. I don't want to slow down to go faster. I wanna I wanna I wanna make it. I wanna make a good experience happen. What's your thought? >>Yeah, well, I mean, I think we're all living through this new world where we're working from home, and sometimes the user experience is less than perfect. In fact, on this broadcast you may see stuttering and break up of the video, and you know, that's that's a problem that I think needs to be solved. It's a problem that we're able to solve with virtualization. So the idea behind virtualization by putting a layer of software on top of a physical asset, you could make it easier to manage that asset. You could make that asset more efficient. We certainly did that with servers. It was really obvious. Now we're doing it to the network itself. So what this means is we have some customers. We have one customer that is in the health care industry, like during the height of the crisis, all of their doctors and researchers had to work from home, and yet they needed to use video communication tools like we're doing here. And they needed a consistently good and user experience. And so we were able to ship these customers more than 8000 boxes over the course of two weeks into people's homes. So think of a little tiny device about the size of a set top box shows up in your house and all of a sudden your zoom or your WebEx sessions just work, no more stuttering. And we're breaking up because we're able to manage the network and virtualized prioritized traffic and deliver consistently good and user experience. So managing the quality of services, a foundational capability, and we have a unique ways to do that with virtualization that I think never existed before the second step is I wanna make sure not only that it's a good user experience, but my security. All of those controls that used to live in black boxes that those replied, This is where our partnership with the scaler is so important. So the scaler has the same philosophy that we do of like, let's put this stuff in many points of presence around the world. I think you know you're in like, 100 or so points of presence, so we weren't 150. And so whatever an end user is, you just find that nearest point of presence, connect and make the shortest route possible to deliver good quality and user experience and also consistent world class security. It's zero. It's >>interesting. First of all. We'll sign up for the Cube Virtual. We need that video late challenges. But we're you know what? We shouldn't have to be video engineers to manage the packets on the round trip. This software, I mean, you know, Web Zoom, they build their entire application to manage these kinds of intellectual property challenges. So that >>brings the >>complexity of applications. So, you know, people are gonna have all these new complexities. And how do you integrate it all? >>Yeah, you know, obviously, Zoom and WebEx companies are, you know, this is court or what they do. The challenges they gotta control both ends of the wire, and and so so with with our network virtualization, we actually control the wire itself, right? We can make the wire behave in a way we can prioritize traffic so that your zoom goes ahead of Xbox Live or Netflix do things like traffic shaping, which are techniques that are actually well understood, but difficult to deploy in a physical world. In a virtual world, we could employ these techniques constantly adapting and changing to make sure that engineer experience is smooth and easy on. That's really pretty impactful. >>Put it. What's your reaction all of this because you know I'm a customer, you know? You know, I'm like, What's in it for me, guys? Integration with the scale of VM Ware. What's in it for me? Because I got now multi clouds in the horizon. I'm dealing with multiple clouds today. I got complexity and applications themselves, and I want to create the nirvana that you laid out, which is access anywhere. High speed eso I might not have the expertise in house. What do I do? What's in it for me? Take me through the value proposition. >>Absolutely. So you know, Tom touched on it. You know the idea of bringing security as close to the end user as possible. If you step back for a minute and you start to think about security usually security and user experience off a contradictory Usually if you add more security, you lose use of experience and vice versa. That's sort of what Ziese killers start to go solve. And so, you know, over a decade ago, you know, when we started to build the architectures, it was built with a few core principles in mind, right? The idea of being completely distributed today we're in over 200 points of presence worldwide. That gives us a pretty good footprint to be as close to the end user. We absolutely could not compromise own security. So this idea that if you have a finite appliance, maybe the appliance has a, you know, a limited amount of CPU or horsepower And so I will tweet the security s so that I could get more performance, not the case with how we ran about, you know, offering security. All security services run all the time. Right? So without any compromise to the end user, and then finally, you know, when it comes to the actual security itself architectures based on something called a proxy. And usually again, if you start to think about a proxy and security was, uh people don't think in a very favorable manner, they usually think it slows things down. It adds Leighton, see, it breaks applications. And again I go back to, you know, the foundational elements of the skater. When we started this journey, it was with this idea that we're gonna build this proxy from the ground up. Very high performance. Mike was second, like late and see something that you would not see in the market anywhere with this partnership. Now, right? Seamless integration between VM Wednesay skater You are now able to set up these tunnels instantly automatically, so go back to Tom's. Example. 8000 set top boxes like devices sent out to this healthcare institution. Right? You can automatically set up tunnels such that the traffic is pointing to Z scale. There's feel over capabilities, so any and all of that has been instrumented in in software. The end customers sets that up. You know can automate that templates all across those 8000 devices. You now have security at the same time with user experience. A passed away to go adapt to business needs agility, you know, being able to keep up and lower your costs because you're substantially reducing the Mpls footprint. So there's a whole bunch of disparate, uh, you know, advantages that an enterprise gets. But the biggest one off amongst them, in my mind, is just being able to address the business needs. I mean, how Maney CEO is today with Colvin are starting to realize my network is not adapting to this new normal right, and so that's sort of where this partnership between VM Ware and Z scaler comes in. It's very timely. >>Everyone's like they want more about their network, and that's like, you know, everyone's banging on the table. Great. Great point there. Thanks for taking that great explanation. I wanna just follow up with you if you if you don't mind, compare that what you just said in terms of the value of Z scaler with this partnership versus the old way, because you what you just laid out was, you know, dynamic provisioning, setting up connections, having software, automate things, compare what it was like before because, remember, I mean, people have been around the industry. No, the pain in the butt that it's been and human error Compare what the old way it was like And now with this experience, can just just >>really And I let Tom talk about, you know, things on the network side. You know, where you might have had a large behemoth like a Cisco box where you try to tweak some policy and the entire box would fall over or something along those lines from a security standpoint. Usually when you had a a box, you know, You know, folks would call it a youth name box that God about box with, You know, as much security as you could push into a finite amount of appliance unified threat management function. Usually what would end up happening the old way was, you know, you would, you would you would have some basic security capabilities. Maybe it was. It's a traditional DMC that Thoma alluded to. You know, there's a firewall, there's an I. P s. There's some Web proxy capabilities and and that that was the that was the journey that a customer had, you know, So they would replicate this box and all those various locations. Or in the case of Nestle, before the scaler, they had those Dems es in four locations around the world, right? And the moment security, security keeps changing, right, the threat landscape keeps adopting. I mean, today, within disease killer cloud, we provide over 125,000 updates everyday, right? That's how dynamic security is. And so because the threat keeps changing, usually one of the things that vendors will try and do is add more security to that existing appliance. Right? So you're trying to make sure that a customer bottom appliance on, they need to make sure that they recoup the full investment. Let's add a little more security to it. Let's add a little more security to it so that I can keep up with the latest threats. Well, the problem with that is, when you have a finite amount of horsepower within the appliance, the performance starts to drop. And so usually that was the trade off that enterprises were making. With the security now being in the cloud right, And this idea that you're in the way, you sort of have infinite compute. Uh, you are now decoupling security from those those branch devices that Tom just alluded to. I mean, that 8000 boxes, right? One of the key points of a sassy framework that Tom alluded to is a very lightweight branch. And that's the piece That's the North Star that I think both VM Ware and Czyz killer have had right that that that low end not not lowering but of a thin branch and let the heavy lifting whether it's on the US side from the networking standpoint, whether it's security, um, you know, as it related to Z skater. Let that heavy lifting be done in the cloud. >>Yeah, and of course, there's a lot of lot of moving parts, so it's It's might be lower in lightweight, but it's more functionality. That's what the cloud Because I get that point, by the way, that anyone in the D M Z knows that as you add more stuff in there, get more, you know, cooks in the kitchen. Nothing good comes from that. Um, Tom, I'm gonna get your thoughts for the your audience out there and your customers and your prospects. What does the Z scale of partnership mean for them? >>Well, like I said, it zone opportunity to think differently about how we build a deploy enterprise networks. This a dramatic change. Most of us have been familiar with the old model where you had a spoon. It was referring to those big heavy boxes, the VPN concentrators and at the same time, most of us have been employees of those companies on. We've had the, you know, sort of less than stellar experience of turning the VPN on, and all of a sudden interest in Internet go slow. That's that's not what we want Thio achieve, and so so having the ability to use a distributed architectures. It's being forced upon us. Everyone is distributed where they like. They like it or not, Right? And so having a distributed architecture where I can put security and quality of service network controls closer to the end user is really, really critical. And I think just as puny was saying they started with this idea of of pushing security closely on user. We started with fellow Cloud with the idea of virtual izing the network in lots of physical places. So retail locations. So you've got thousands of stores around the world. You need to deliver video and audio services into those stores with a very high quality. So we were designed to have a very light, uh, entry point, and a light interviewing can just be pure software. It could be a small box three advantage of a small boxes. It's so turnkey it's designed that totally unskilled operator can use this retail people. A store manager gets a little box in the mail. You plug it in, you know, snap to Internet cables into it, and it just works again, Put it referred to this. This is part of our value. Proposition is, you plug this thing in a zone and used all you know is the Internet just got faster. You don't have to configure proxy settings. What's my I p range? Like that stuff's? Yeah, exactly. Well, and this is so many of us are feeling it now when you have, you know, sub optimal network connections. So being able to deliver a quality and user experience, >>you know, Cove, it accelerated a lot of a lot of opportunities. Also exposes the scabs and and, you know, things that been laying around and some suboptimal projects. I mean, and everyone's gonna be doubling down on things that are working and probably, you know, putting on the back burner or killing projects that don't make sense. So, um, this is a great opportunity, and I think forces things right in you guys. Wheelhouse is so I appreciate taking the time for the last minute that we have left Tom and putting. If you don't mind, I'd love to get your thoughts real quick on what's next after cloud. Obviously, cloud brings up all these benefits you're talking about. Um, what do you guys see is what's next after cloud Tom will start with you. >>I think that the you know, the range of services that will deliver in this format is not at all limited to traditional DMC services. So thank ap. I gateways. Think about core infrastructure offerings like DNS. Pretty much everything that we used in the network can actually now be delivered as a service in software more efficiently, Um, then standing up boxes and and racking, stacking yourselves. And so our view is that that cove, it has killed the appliance once and for all. And that's broadly. That's not just at the at the edge. That's in the core of the data center, things like load balancers. They're all moving to software with scale out scale out infrastructure software running on X 86 on DE. So I think that change of that magnitude will still take a while to roll out. But it's happening, >>Cove. It killed appliance. That's the headline right there. Love that. Put it after cloud. What's next? >>Well, you know, I'll say this job very similar to what Tom just mentioned. I think we're in the early innings, you know, when we would talk to our customers about transforming the network and adapting to this new normal. You know, we had some early adopters, but there was still a fair number of people that was skeptical and that loved their appliances. Covert has changed a lot of that. And so we have seen, in general acceleration of the business. The market is moving in our direction, and we feel that with this partnership you have to market leaders coming together. Right? VM ware on the networking side on the cloud networking side on the data center z scaler as it relates to cloud security user base security. This idea that we are a zero trust exchange that allows users to connect your applications to the Internet in a safe manner and at scale. That's the beauty off. You know, this'll, uh, partnership that we have brought together. And we are hopeful that customers will embrace it with confidence. And I'm mindful that we're in the early innings. >>Great points, gentlemen. Awesome stuff, great insights. And I think the cloud native integration shows that people in the ecosystem is evolving to be cloud native toe have these kinds of integrations these value points physical virtualization. Tom. Great point. I mean, we're not in face to face, but we're here. Virtually the The Cube is gonna be virtual. It's suffered to find operations. The world has changed. I think everyone is now seeing it. Thanks for the insight. And congratulations, Tom. On the news putting. Thank congratulations on the partnership with VM. Where sounds like it's great for customers looking forward to digging in. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it. Okay. That's the cube coverage here. We're in Palo Alto, California. We're in the Bay Area, but this is the emerald virtual. We're not in person, but we're virtual. I'm showing for your host for coverage of the emerald 2020. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of CONMEBOL. Future ready 2020. Brought to you by combo. >>Hi and welcome back. I'm Stew Minuteman, and we're at the Cube's coverage of Con Volt Future Ready. You've got the power panel to really dig in on the product announcements that happened at the event today. Joining me? We have three guests. First of all, we have Brenda Rajagopalan. He's the vice president of products. Sitting next to him is Don Foster, vice president of Storage Solutions. And in the far piece of the panel Mersereau, vice president of Global Channels and Alliances. All three of them with Conn Volt. Gentlemen, thanks all three of you for joining us. Exactly. All right, so first of all, great job on the launch. You know, these days with a virtual event doing, you know, the announcements, the engagement with the press and analyst, you know, having demos, customer discussions. It's a challenge to put all those together. And it has been, you know, engaging in interesting watch today. So we're going to start with you. You've been quite busy today explaining all the pieces, so just at a very high level if you put this really looks like the culmination of the update with Conn Volt portfolio new team new products compared to kind of a year, year and 1/2 ago. So just if you could start us off with kind of the high points, >>thank you still, yeah, absolutely exciting day for us today. You did comrade multiple reasons for that excitement and go through that we announced an exciting new portfolio today knows to not the culmination. It's a continuation off our journey, a bunch of new products that we launched today Hyper scaler X as a new integrated data protection appliance. We've also announced new offerings in data protection, backup and recovery, disaster recovery and complete data protection and lots of exciting updates for Hedwig and a couple of weeks like we introduced updates for metallic. So, yes, it's been a really exciting pain. Also, today happens to be the data, and we got to know that we are the leader in Gartner Magic Quadrant for the ninth consecutive. I am so a lot of goodness today for us. >>Excellent. Lots of areas that we definitely want to dig deep in to the pieces done. You know, we just heard a little bit about Hedvig was an acquisition a year ago that everybody's kind of looking at and saying Okay, you know, will this make them compete against some of their traditional partners? How we get integrated in So, baby, just give us one level deeper on the Hedvig piece on what that means to the portfolio? Yeah, sure, So I >>guess I mean, one of the key things that the random mentioned was the fact that had hyper scale that's is built off the head Day files. So that's a huge milestone for us. As we teased out maybe 10 months ago. Remember, Tomball, Go on the Cube and talking about, you know, kind of what our vision and strategy was of unifying data and storage management. Those hyper hyper scale X applying is a definite milestone improving out that direction. But beyond just the hyper scale ECs, we've also been driving on some of the more primary or modern workloads such as containers and the really interesting stuff we've come out with your recently is the kubernetes native integration that ties in all of the advanced component of the head to distribute storage architecture on the platform itself across multi cloud and on premise environments, making it really easy and policy driven. Um, for Dev, ops users and infrastructure users, the tie ins applications from a group, Friction >>Great and Mercer. There's some updates to the partner program and help us understand how all of these product updates they're gonna affect the kind of the partnerships and alliances beasts that you want. >>Absolutely. So in the time since our last meeting that go in the fall, which is actually right after I had just doing combo, we spent a good portion of the following six months really talking with partners, understanding the understand the impact of the partner program that we introduced last summer, looking at the data and really looking at barriers to evolve the program, which fell around three difference specific. Once you bet one was simplicity of the simplicity of the program, simplicity of understanding, rewards, levers and so forth. The second was paying for value was really helping, helping our partners to be profitable around things like deal registration on other benefits and then third was around co investment. So making sure that we get the right members in place to support our partners and investing in practices. Another training, another enablement around combo and we launched in over these things last week is a part of an evolution of that program. Today is a great follow on because in addition to all of the program evolutions that we we launched last week now we have an opportunity with our partners to have many more opportunities or kind of a thin into the wedge to open up new discussions with our customers now around all of these different use cases and capabilities. So back to that simplification angle, really driving more and more opportunities for those partners toe specific conversations around use cases. >>Okay, for this next question, I think it makes sense for you to start. Maybe maybe Don, you can get some commentary in two. But when he's firstly the announcements, there are some new products in the piece that you discuss but trying to understand, you know, when you position it, you know, do you call the portfolio? Is it a platform? You know, if I'm an existing Conn Volt customer, you know, how do I approach this? If I use something like metallic, how does that interplay with some of the new pieces that were discussed today. >>Sure, I can take the business. I'm sure Don and mostly will have more data to it. The simplest way to think about it is as a port for you. But contrary to how you would think about portfolio as independent products, what we have is a set off data management services granular. We're very aligned to the use case, which can all inter operate with each other. So maybe launched backup and recovery and disaster recovery. These can be handled separately, purchased separately and deployed standalone or for customers who want a combination of those capabilities. We also have a complete data protection are fine storage optimization, data governance E discovery in complaints are data management services that build on top off any of these capabilities now a very differentiating factor in our platform owners. All the services that you're talking about are delivered off the same software to make it simpler to manage to the same year. So it's very easy to start with one service and then just turn on the license and go to other services so I can understand the confusion is coming from but it's all the same. The customer simplicity and flexibility in mind, and it's all delivered off the same platform. So it is a portfolio built on a single Don. Would you like to add more to it? >>Yeah, I think the interesting thing due to add on top of that is where we're going with Hedvig Infrastructure, the head of distributed storage platform, uh, to to run this point, how everything is integrated and feed and work off of one another. That's the same idea that we have. We talked about unifying data and storage manager. So the intricate storage architecture components the way data might be maneuvered, whether it's for kubernetes for virtual machines, database environments, secondary storage, you name it, um, we are. We're quickly working to continue driving that level of of unification and integration between the portfolio and heads storage, distribute storage platforms and also deliver. So what you're seeing today going back to, I think wrong his first point. It's definitely not the culmination. It's just another step in the direction as we continue to innovate and integrate this >>product, and I think for our partners what this really does, it allows them to sell around customer use cases because it'll ask now if I have a d. Our use case. I can go after just PR. If I have a backup use case, I can just go after backup, and I don't have to try to sell more than that. Could be on what the customer is looking for in parallel that we can steal these things in line with the customer use case. So the customer has a lot of remote offices. They want to scale Hedvig across those they want to use the art of the cloud. They can scale these things independently, and it really gives us a lot of optionality that we didn't have before when we had a few monolithic products. >>Excellent. Really reminds me more of how I look at products if I was gonna go buy it from some of the public cloud providers living in a hybrid cloud. World, of course, is what your customers are doing. Help us understand a little bit, you know, Mercer talked about metallic and the azure partnership, but for the rest of the products, the portfolio that we're talking about, you know, does this >>kind >>of work seamlessly across my own data center hosting providers Public Cloud, you know, how does this fit into the cloud environment for your customer? >>Yes, it does. And I can start with this one goes to, um it's our strategy is cloud first, right? And you see it in every aspect of our product portfolio. In fact, I don't know if you got to see a keynote today, but Ron from Johns Hopkins University was remarking that comment has the best cloud native architectures. And that's primarily because of the innovation that we drive into the multi cloud reality. We have very deep partnerships with pretty much all the cloud vendors, and we use that for delivering joint innovation, a few things that when you think of it from a hybrid customers perspective, the most important need for them is to continue working on pram while still leveraging the cloud. And we have a lot of optimization is built into that, and then the next step of the journey is of course, making sure that you can recover to the cloud would be it work load. Typically your data quality and there's a lot of automation that we provide to our solutions and finally, Of course, if you're already in the cloud, whether you're running a science parents or cloud native, our software protects across all those use cases, either true sass with metallic auto downloadable software, backup and recovery so we can cover the interest victims of actual presence. You. We do definitely help customers in every stage of their hybrid cloud acceleration journey. >>And if you take a look at the Hedvig protect if you take a look at the head back to, um, the ability to work in a cloud native fast, it is essentially a part of the DNA of that storage of the storage, right? So whether you're running on Prem, whether you're running it about adjacent, set up inside the cloud head, that can work with any compute environment and any storage environment that you went to essentially then feed, we build this distributed storage, and the reason that becomes important. It's pretty much highlighted with our announcement around the kubernetes and container support is that it makes it really easy to start maneuvering data from on Prem to the cloud, um, from cloud to cloud region to region, sort of that high availability that you know as customers make cloud first a reality and their organizations starts to become a critical requirement or ensuring the application of and some of the things that we've done now with kubernetes in making all of our integration for how we deliver storage for the kubernetes and container environments and being that they're completely kubernetes native and that they can support a Google in AWS and Azure. And of course, any on premises community set up just showcases the value that we can provide in giving them that level of data portability. And it basically provides a common foundation layer, or how any sort of the Dev ops teams will be operating in the way that those state full container state workloads. Donna Oh, sorry. Go >>ahead, mark area >>because you mentioned the metallic and azure partnership announcement and I just want to get on that. And one thing that run dimension, which is we are really excited about the announcement of partnership with Microsoft and all the different news cases that opens up that are SAS platform with Azure with office 3 65 and all of the great application stack it's on. If you're at the same time, to run this point. We are a multi cloud company. And whether that is other of the hyper scale clouds Mess GC, P. Ali at Oracle and IBM, etcetera, or Oliver, Great service writer burners. We continue to believe in customer choice, and we'll continue to drive unique event innovations across all of those platforms. >>All right, Don, I was wondering if we could just dig in a little bit more on some other kubernetes pieces you were talking about. Let me look at just the maturation of storage in general. You know, how do we had state back into containers in kubernetes environments? Help us see, You know what you're hearing from your customers. And you know how you how you're ready to meet their needs toe not only deliver storage, but as you say, Really? You know, full data protection in that environment? >>Certainly it So I mean, there's been a number of enhancements that happened in the kubernetes environment General over the last two years. One of the big ones was the creation of what the visit environment calls a persistent volume. And what that allows you to do is to really present storage to a a communities application. Do it be typically through what's called a CSR container storage interface that allows for state full data to be written, storage and be handled and reattached applications as you leverage them about that kubernetes. Um, as you can probably imagine that with the addition of the additional state full applications, some of the overall management now of stateless and state collapse become very talent. And that's primarily because many customers have been using some of the more traditional storage solutions to try to map that into these new state. Full scenario. And as you start to think about Dev ops organization, most Dev ops organizations want to work in the environment of their choice. Whether that's Google, whether that's AWS, Microsoft, uh, something that might be on Prem or a mix of different on Prem environments. What you typically find, at least in the kubernetes world, is there's seldom ever one single, very large kubernetes infrastructure cluster that's set to run, Dev asked. The way and production all at once. You usually have this spread out across a fairly global configuration, and so that's where some of these traditional mechanisms from traditional storage vendors really start to fall down because you can apply the same level of automation and controls in every single one of those environments. When you don't control the storage, let's say and that's really where interfacing Hedvig and allowing that sort of extension distribute storage platform brings about all of this automation policy control and really storage execution definition for the state. Full statehood workloads so that now managing the stateless and the state full becomes pretty easy and pretty easy to maintain when it comes to developing another Dev branch or simply trying to do disaster recovery or a J for production, >>any family actively do. That's a very interesting response, and the reality is customers are beginning to experiment with business. Very often they only have a virtual environment, and now they're also trying to expand into continuous. So Hedwig's ability to service primary storage for virtualization as well as containers actually gives their degree of flexibility and freedom for customers to try out containers and to start their contingent. Thank you familiar constructs. Everything is mellow where you just need to great with continuous >>Alright, bring a flexibility is something that I heard when you talk about the portfolio and the pricing as to how you put these pieces together. You actually talked about in the presentation this morning? Aggressive pricing. If you talk about, you know, kind of backup and recovery, help us understand, You know, convo 2020 how you're looking at your customers and you know how you put together your products, that to meet what they need at that. As you said, aggressive pricing? >>Absolutely. And you use this phrase a little bit earlier is to blow like flexibility. That's exactly what we're trying to get to the reason why we are reconstructing our portfolio so that we have these very granular use case aligned data management services to provide the cloud like flexibility. Customers don't have the same data management needs all the time. Great. So they can pick and choose the exact solution that need because there are delivered on the same platform that can enable out the solution investment, you know, And that's the reality. We know that many of our customers are going to start with one and keep adding more and more services, because that's what we see as ongoing conversations that gives us the ability to really praise the entry products very aggressively when compared to competition, especially when we go against single product windows. This uses a lot of slammed where we can start with a really aggressively priced product and enable more capabilities as we move forward to give you an idea, we launched disaster recovery today. I would say that compared to the so the established vendors India, we would probably come in at about 25 to 40% of the Priceline because it depends on the environment and what not. But you're going to see that that's the power of bringing to the table. You start small and then depending on what your needs are, you have the flexibility to run on either. More data management capabilities are more workloads, depending on what your needs will be. I think it's been a drag from a partner perspective, less with muscle. If you want a little bit more than that, >>yes, I mean, that goes back to the idea of being ableto simply scale across government use functionality. For example, things like the fact that our disaster recovery offering the Newman doesn't require backup really allows us to have those Taylor conversations around use cases, applications >>a >>zealous platforms. You think about one of the the big demands that we've had coming in from customers and partners, which is help me have a D R scenario or a VR set up in my environment that doesn't require people to go put their hands on boxes and cables, which was one of those things that a year ago we were having. This conversation would not necessarily have been as important as it is now, but that ability to target those specific, urgent use cases without having to go across on sort of sell things that aren't necessarily associated with the immediate pain points really makes those just makes us ineffective. Offer. >>Yeah, you bring up some changing priorities. I think almost everybody will agree that the number one priority we're hearing from customers is around security. So whether I'm adopting more cloud, I'm looking at different solutions out there. Security has to be front and center. Could we just kind of go down the line and give us the update as to how security fits and all the pieces we've been discussing? >>I guess I'm talking about change, right, so I'll start. The security for us is built into everything that we do the same view you're probably going to get from each of us because security is burden. It's not a board on, and you would see it across a lot of different images. If you take our backup and recovery and disaster recovery, for instance, a lot of ransomware protection capabilities built into the solution. For instance, we have anomaly detection that is built into the platform. If we see any kind of spurious activity happening all of a sudden, we know that that might be a potential and be reported so that the customer can take a quick look at air Gap isolation, encryption by default. So many features building. And when you come to disaster recovery, encryption on the wire, a lot of security aspects we've been to every part of the portfolio don't. >>Consequently, with Hedvig, it's probably no surprise that when that this platform was developed and as we've continued development, security has always been at the core of what we're doing is stored. So what? It's for something as simple as encryption on different volume, ensuring the communication between applications and the storage platform itself, and the way the distributors towards platform indicates those are all incredibly secured. Lock down almost such for our own our own protocols for ensuring that, um, you know, only we're able to talk within our own, our own system. Beyond that, though, I mean it comes down to ensure that data in rest data in transit. It's always it's always secure. It's also encrypted based upon the level of control that using any is there one. And then beyond just the fact of keeping the data secure. You have things like immutable snapshots. You have declared of data sovereignty to ensure that you can put essentially virtual fence barriers for where data can be transported in this highly distributed platform. Ah, and then, from a user perspective, there's always level security for providing all seeking roll on what groups organization and consume storage or leverage. Different resource is the storage platform and then, of course, from a service provider's perspective as well, providing that multi tenanted access s so that users can have access to what they want when they want it. It's all about self service, >>and the idea there is that obviously, we're all familiar with the reports of increased bad actors in the current environment to increased ransomware attacks and so forth. And be a part of that is addressed by what wrong and done said in terms of our core technology. Part of that also, though, is addressed by being able to work across platforms and environments because, you know, as we see the acceleration of state tier one applications or entire data center, evacuations into service provider or cloud environments has happened. You know, this could have taken 5 10 years in a in a normal cycle. But we've seen this happen overnight has cut this. Companies have needed to move those I T environments off science into managed environments and our ability to protect the applications, whether they're on premises, whether they're in the cloud or in the most difficult near where they live. In both cases, in both places at once, is something that it's really important to our customers to be able to ensure that in the end, security posture >>great Well, final thing I have for all three of you is you correctly noted that this is not the end, but along the journey that you're going along with your customers. So you know, with all three of you would like to get a little bit. Give us directionally. What should we be looking at? A convo. Take what was announced today and a little bit of look forward towards future. >>Directionally we should be looking at a place where we're delivering even greater simplicity to our customers. And that's gonna be achieved through multiple aspects. 1st 1 it's more technologies coming together. Integrating. We announced three important integration story. We announced the Microsoft partnership a couple of weeks back. You're gonna see us more longer direction. The second piece is technology innovation. We believe in it. That's what Differentiators has a very different company and we'll continue building it along the dimensions off data awareness, data, automation and agility. And the last one continued obsession with data. What more can we do with it? How can we drive more insights for our customers We're going to see is introducing more capabilities along those dimensions? No. >>And I think Rhonda tying directly into what you're highlighting there. I'm gonna go back to what we teased out 10 months ago at calm Bolt. Go there in Colorado in this very on this very program and talk about how, in the unification of ah ah, data and storage management, that vision, we're going to make more and more reality. I think the, uh, the announcements we've made here today let some of the things that we've done in between the lead up to this point is just proof of our execution. And ah, I can happily and excitedly tell you, we're just getting warmed up. It's going to be, ah, gonna be some fun future ahead. >>And I think studio in the running that out with the partner angle. Obviously, we're going to continue to produce great products and solutions that we're going to make our partners relevant. In those conversations with customers, I think we're also going to continue to invest in alternative business models, services, things like migration services, audit services, other things that build on top of this core technology to provide value for customers and additional opportunities for our partners >>to >>build out their their offerings around combo technologies. >>All right, well, thank you. All three of you for joining us. It was great to be able to dig in, understand those pieces. I know you've got lots of resources online for people to learn more. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you too. Thank you. Alright, and stay with us. So we've got one more interview left for the Cube's coverage of con vault. Future Ready, students. Mannan. Thanks. As always for watching the Cube. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

From a little park, California in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's the cube covering cloud now. Awards 2020 brought to you by Silicon angle media. Here's Sonya to garden. Hi and welcome to the cube. I'm your host Sonia to Gary. And we're on the ground at Facebook headquarters in Menlo park, California covering cloud nows, top women entrepreneurs in cloud innovation awards. Joining us today is Christine Heckart, CEO of scaler. Christine, welcome to the cube. Thank you. So you're receiving an award today for being one of the top women in cloud. Um, how do you feel about that? >>Oh, it's always terrible to get an award. I mean, it's awesome. I'm very honored to be here. >>Awesome. Um, so give us a little brief overview of your background. >>Oh, 30 years in tech. Um, let's same now. I'm CEO of scaler. So we're a log analytics company. We scale to over a hundred terabytes a day in the cloud at ridiculously affordable prices. And we serve some of the best tech companies in the world. We sell into engineers and developers. >>And so you've been CEO for over a year now. What's that experience been like? What challenges have you faced along the way? >>Uh, exhilarating experience if you've never been at a startup? Um, it's a great place to be. It's a phenomenal team. Challenges are all about how you grow and how you serve customers well on a limited set of resource with unlimited choice sets and opportunities. And that's hard thing to do. >>So you've been an executive for quite a while now. What's the best part about being a CEO? >>The people are the best part. Um, both the employees. We have some incredible employees, very energized about the mission, very dedicated, uh, and then absolutely amazing customers that we serve. These, you know, we serve engineers whereby accompanied by engineers for engineers and engineers innovate to change the world. And our job is to help them innovate with more confidence so they can change the world more quickly. And so you're feeding into all these incredible missions around the world with these incredible people and you're helping them do their job better. And it's just every day is different and every day is fun. >>So what are the, some of the things that have influenced you along the way or some of the people who have influenced you? >>Jeez. Um, you know, I guess I'm influenced mostly by the people who I worked with and who have worked for me. Um, even more so maybe than the people I've worked for, although they've also been fabulous. Um, I just think you learn from, you learn from all the talent around you in the way people think differently about problems and, and how that synergy, um, often creates just magical outcomes. >>So as a CEO, um, what kind of workplace culture are striving to achieve? >>Uh, we have picked just one value and there are other companies that I think are doing the same and the value and we picked us care. And so we really strive to have a culture that encourages people to care about each other and care about the company's mission, uh, care about serving customers well and, and building a very high quality product with great experience, but also care about the environment and care about the community and care about people's lives outside of the day to day work job. Um, so we try to take a really holistic view, but on one key attribute, which is care. >>Well that's, that's awesome. I think everyone wants to go to work and, and just feel like, you know, that they're not bogged down by long hours or that >>we still have long hours. There's no doubt about that, but it's carrying long hours right there. Appreciate it. Yeah. Um, so what advice would you give to women who are considering a career in tech? I love tech. I've been 30 years in tech. I go out of my way to get people into the industry. Um, I do believe in all of its facets. It's the greatest industry in the history of history. I really do believe that it's also a hard place to work. It's a demanding place to work. Um, it's still hard place to work for women. Um, and any, I think kind of minority, uh, it's not as welcoming yet as it could be, but relative to 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, we've made enormous progress. I still believe we are making enormous progress and there's work to go, but it's very encouraging. >>That's great. Um, so, um, after being in the industry for a while, have you figured out a work life balance? Is there a secret? Is it a myth? >>Um, I am not the person to ask about work life balance for sure. Uh, most people would probably say I don't have it. Um, I don't look at it as balanced so much as, um, maybe juggling, like you just prioritize what's important in the moment. Um, I do believe in that. One of the great things about tech is usually you can do your job anytime from anywhere. Um, and you know, that has good and bad. So I tend to do my job all times everywhere. But you can do your job all times, everywhere and, and sometimes that's from home. And sometimes that's from other places, you know, anywhere around the world. >>And I'm sure especially as like, you know, moms and stuff like it's, it's great to have that flexibility. Um, and um, so, okay. So as a CEO, what do you think makes you a great leader? >>Um, I think any great leader is a leader who cares about their mission and their employees, uh, as people and not just as workers, um, and their customers as people and their, their holistic careers in their lives, not just as a source of revenue. So that's one of the reasons why we picked that value care is that, you know, it's super important for any leader at any level. What do you think leaders can do to, to make that, make it more welcoming for women in tech to be part of this industry? Um, it's not, this is not a question about women or any, anybody in particular, what people value is being appreciated and being included and being heard. That's it. Like, if you, if, if you can create an environment that is inclusive, where people can be heard and can be valued for what they contribute and their ideas, then I think, you know, it's a great place to work and, and, and that's a hard thing to do. It's white. It's easy to say. It's very hard to do culturally. Um, but I, I really think it's that simple. Well, thank you so much, Christine, for being on the. It's always great to have you here. Thank you for having me again. I'm sending it to Gary. Thanks for watching the cube. Stay tuned for more.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's theCUBE. (upbeat music) Now, here's your host Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this Cube Conversation on data protection. You know, I've been reporting for the last several months that spending on storage is reverting back to pre-2018 levels, but at the same time, it's not falling off a cliff. Now, one area of storage that is still very, very strong is the data protection segment. In the past 18 months, we've seen about a half a billion dollars in venture funding come into the market. We've just seen a big multi-billion dollar exit. And backup specifically in data protection, data management generally is where all the action is right now. And one of the leaders in data protection is Dell EMC. The company has the largest share of the market and the new entrants, believe me, want a piece of their pie. But anyone who follows this company knows that the firm is not likely to give up it's turf very easily. So much is changing in the market today. And I want to understand how Dell EMC's data protection division is responding to both the competitive threats and the changing market dynamics. With me are two experts from Dell EMC to address these issues. Nelson Hsu is Director of Solutions, Product Marketing for the data protection division at Dell EMC, and Colm Keegan is Senior Consultant, Product Marketing at Dell EMC. Gents, welcome to theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Thank you for having us. >> Thanks, Dave. >> So you heard my intro. You guys are the leader. You got the biggest market share. You got all the upstarts coming at ya. What's your response? >> Want me to take that? >> Sure. >> Yeah. It's interesting, so we were talking about this before we came on set, you know and often times they want to poke holes at us 'cause you know we're perceived as being the old timers, or the stodgy ones of the group out there. And play a little jiu jitsu, you move in say you know well time in market counts for something. You know we've been solving data protection challenges for customers for literally decades now. You know and so, water under the boat and knowing the experience that we've derived from that allows us to bring solutions that are mature, that are proven. What we're doing is we're taking those proven solutions and pairing them with modern capabilities. So that, you know we look at it and say, hey, look, Mr. Customer. You have significant data protection challenges today because, as you said, the world's changing. It's changing rapidly. We can help you address those while also sowing the seeds for the foundation for the future. So we think that's a compelling message and we think that while some of our competitors, in particular the upstarts, have had some interesting things to say, big picture-wise, they don't know what they don't know. 'Cause they just don't have the time in the market. Their solutions are also largely absent upmarket, you know, when you look at the enterprise. So we're comfortable. We think we're in a very good spot right now. >> So cloud obviously was the huge mega trend of the past decade. You guys said from the beginning, it's going to be a hybrid world. Some of that was we hope it's going to be a hybrid world. Well you were right, it's a hybrid world. So how is cloud, hybrid cloud affecting your customer decisions around data protection, and how are you responding? >> Well, you know, there's no doubt that the growth in cloud and the growth in hybrid cloud is real. And it's there today. As we look, and as Colm mentioned, we've been protecting data across the enterprise, across the edge and in the cloud, and that growth continues. So today, we have over 1,000 customers that we're protecting their data in the cloud. To the tone of over 2.7 exabytes of data protected in the cloud by Dell EMC data protection. So there is absolutely no doubt that that growth is there. We have a lot of innovation that we're driving on, both in various ares of cloud native, cyber security and deep integration. >> Okay, so that's good, 1,000 customers. That's a pretty good observation space. But when you think about hybrid, what I think when I talk to customers is they want that same exact cloud experience. They don't want to have to context switch. They don't want to have to buy different platforms. So how are you specifically addressing that customer requirement? >> So there's a couple ways we look at that, right? For our customers, simplicity is very key in ease of use. So that's one of our core tenants as we go across both the edge, the core and the cloud. And the other aspect of that is consistency. So giving them and allowing them to use the tools that they know today to be able to protect their data, wherever that data resides. So with the cloud, with cloud native, your data becomes very, very distributed. And you have to be able to see all that data, and control and manage that data. So the whole aspect around cloud data management has now risen to the top as a major concern. We do that in a great way in a sense that we both have a hybrid strategy and a lot of that is working with Dell Technologies cloud. And it's based upon VMware. And so we have a very good deep relationship with VMware to utilize their tools that our customers use today. Whether it be vSphere or vcontrol that they can manage their data protection from one console, from one environment itself. >> Yeah, Dave, I think when you look at the split today, the latest cut of research is that roughly 52% of VM's are in the cloud, and 48 percent are on-prems so it's already hybrid, and as Nelson said, it's largely predicated on VMware. So as organizations start consuming cloud they're going to go with the platform that they've been operating under for years now. So it'll be VMware. We've always had very tight integration with VMware. We have a very strong partnership with them. And that's both on the existing portfolio as well as the agile portfolio that we're building out today under PowerProtect. So as that hybrid world evolves for the customers obviously we want to make sure they're protected from a virtual machine standpoint. And make that, as Nelson said, very simple for them because the last thing customers need is complexity particularly as their environments are becoming inherently more complex. Because now you look at most enterprises today, they're going to have a mix of workloads. It's physical, it's virtual, containers are unaccounted for. It's cloud native apps, it's SaaS. You know we were talking earlier about multi-clouds. Oftentimes it just kind of came up organically and now you've got this huge distribution of workloads and oftentimes, customers have been just sort of reactive to that. In other words, let me find a way to protect that and I'll worry about the details later. We're looking at that and saying, we have the portfolio to help you protect all your workloads, and as importantly, we'll help consolidate the management in that environment. It's going to start with VMware, but then longer term we're planning for things like a SaaS control plane so that we can give you a complete view of that environment and allow you to assign the policies you need in terms of SLA's, in terms of compliance. You're basically hitting all the security, hitting all the key things that you need and so directionally we think starting with VMware and building from there is probably the most realistic way we can get customers protected from a hyper cloud. >> So the vision is a single point of control that is SaaS based that lives in the cloud or lives wherever you want it to live? >> Right, it can be either. >> So one of our core tendencies here, right, is that we want and deliver the ability to protect our customer's data wherever it resides. Whether it's edge, core or cloud. >> So sticking on cloud for a second, and then sort of segue into the VMware conversation that I want to have is VMware is the sort of linchpin of your multi-cloud strategy. That makes a lot of sense. VMware is going to be a leader, if not the leader in multi-cloud. We'll see how that all shakes out. It's kind of jump ball right now but VMware is in pretty good position with 500,000 customers. But your perspective on cloud is different than say, take an AWS cloud provider, it's a place. Put your data in my cloud. You guys are talking about the experience. And that's really what you're trying to drive with VMware, whether is Ron-prem, whether it's in Google, Azure, AWS, wherever. The cloud, you name it. Is that the right way to think about your strategy? Specifically as it relates to multi-cloud. >> Yeah, so I think on the area of multi-cloud, it is a multi-cloud world. Years ago I was in a SaaS startup and we had customers that were looking to deploy to the cloud. And then that was the question. Okay, do we hedge on multi-cloud or not? As a SaaS provider, we actually implemented on both AWS and Azure at the time. Which became relevant, because now our customers are asking us, yes, my primary is with this particular hyper scaler. But do you also support this second hyper scaler? So the reality started to evolve. And so for us, yes, VMware is a very strategic aspect and partner with us, especially with Dell Technologies cloud. But we also have a multi-cloud relationship with AWS, with Azure and with Google. >> Yes, so the compatibility matrix, if you will, applies now to the cloud. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So now it's having that feature and functionality across multiple clouds. >> One of the things we obviously paid attention to is Project Tanzu with inside of VMware. All around bringing kind of Kubernetes and VMware together. How does that affect data protection? >> Well, I think it affects data protection in the sense that addressing the entire aspect of still your data is distributed now. And it's going to grow that way. I think that we've seen numbers upwards of 70% of applications will be container based. Some of that will be going forward to 2022 where there'll be multiple production applications that will be container based. I think what Tanzu will bring to the table is a cohesive way to manage and control that environment itself. >> Okay, and so maybe we could sort of drill into that a little bit. Containers, it's becoming more obvious that people want to persist some of that data. It's largely stateless, but you've got to figure out how to recover. So do you have solutions in that space, is that sort of more road mapping? You can talk about that a little bit. >> No, absolutely. So definitely we have concrete solutions with our Dell EMC PowerProtect data manager for Kubernetes. It's actually one of the first that was in the market to support cloud native environments. >> It is the first. >> Yeah, the first offering out there to support Kubernetes. And so the aspect there is that as cloud native has moved from DevOps, and now into production in the mission critical applications, now becomes the aspect of originally the DNA of DevOps was my data doesn't have to be persistent. Now when you move into a mission critical environment, you're entire environment needs to be protected. And to be able to bring those workloads back up should anything happen and to be able to protect that data that is critical to those workloads. >> Okay, and so you're saying you're first, and you see this as a differentiator in the marketplace, or is everybody going to have this, or it's one of these confusing ice cream cone of solutions. So why you guys? What's your big differentiation? Let's stick to containers. I have the same questions sort of overall come back to that. >> So great question, and the matter of fact is that with our experience across the edge, core and cloud, Kubernetes and containers will be prevalent throughout. And it'll be the way that applications will be developed. It's meeting the demands of the business and being agile. And I think that with our ability internally that would move to that agile emotion. We have that ability to address the customer's needs especially in the cloud native Kubernetes space. >> I think going back to what you said too about VMware, certainly our partnership there is differentiated. We even heard some echos of that during Vmworld. Pat Gelsinger usually doesn't give call outs on the main stage very frequently. And he said that they were working with us as a best-in-class partner for data protection with Tanzu. And so there is a very tight partnership there, so if I'm a customer and I'm looking at containers, I'm probably going to want to do it within the framework of VMware to start with. But it's important to point out that we're also not dependent on VMware. So we can still deliver protection for Kubernetes containers outside of say the VMware management domain. But I would say from a differentiation standpoint there are some real tight partnering going on to make these capabilities mature. >> Well it helps that your CEO owns 80% of the company. (laughing) But it's an interesting point you're making because again, dial back 10 years ago, VMware had much more of a Switzerland strategy under Maritz, almost to, at the time, EMC's detriment. I think Michael Dell is very clearly, as is Jeff Clarke, said look, we're going to do more integration. And Pat Gelsinger has been, look, I love all my partners. It's true but we're entering sort of a new era. And that integration is key, you know, again, because of the ownership structure, and your long history there. It's got to confer some advantages in the marketplace. >> Yeah, and he's also got to remove some of the headwinds to adoption of VMware cloud. And data protection, as we discussed often times can be a headwind if customers are concerned that they're not going to be able to protect their data, chances are they're going to stand pat for a while. So I mean you need to find ways to take some of those objections off the table. >> Yeah, and not to take anything away from your competitors. Look, it's an open API world, and again, people are going to compete. But at the end of the day this stuff is still really complex and if you can do some core engineering together it's definitely an advantage. Let's talk a little bit about cyber. I often say it's become a board level topic. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. SecOps teams are overtaxed. I think I put out a stat lately, I got it from Robert Herjavec actually. He said think about this. The worldwide economy is 86 trillion and we spend .014% on cyber, that's it. We're barely scratching the surface. And that's part of the problem. Okay, but with that limited resource we have to be as smart as possible. You've got this ransomware coming in. So what are your customers asking you for and how are you responding? >> So it's interesting, right, because it is top of mind, cyber and cyber attacks, and it takes many forms. The attacks can be malware, they could be encryption, they could be deletion. Which is ultimately the worst case scenario. And I think as you go forward and you look at it cyber is the number one concern for any CIO, CISO or anyone that's worried about their security infrastructure. >> Which is everybody >> Which is everybody, right, exactly. I think that we have delivered for the cloud data protection area a first and best offering with an air gap data protection solution. So inherently, we can insulate and protect our customer's data from cyber threats. So when a ransom event occurs you can recover your data without having to pay that ransom. Or not be concerned that in most severe cases your data gets deleted. I think most recently there was a healthcare provider who was threatened about their data being deleted. And that was the worst case. We were able to protect their data in the sense that with our cyber recovery offering they protected their data in an air gap vaulted solution. And they didn't have to pay for that ransom. >> So what I'm hearing from you guys is okay, cloud, very important. Hybrid cloud, multi-cloud, fundamental to our strategy. VMware, they say bet on sure things. VMware is pretty much a sure thing. Large customer base, leader in the space. And then cyber as a key concern of customers, you want to expand the notion of backup and data protection to really point it at cyber as well. >> Absolutely, in fact with this recent research, it's called the Global Data Protection Index Survey and we just refreshed it. And what customers identified as the most compelling reasons to adopt cloud is for better performance, better data protection, and better security. Not necessarily in that order but those were the top three. So we look at that and say, you know we've got plays there. Certainly we have capabilities protecting workloads in the cloud whether they be virtual machines, cloud native, containers. But the security aspect of it is huge. Because oftentimes customers, and Dave, you and I were talking about this, they make some broader assumptions about once data is in the clouds they can kind of wash their hands and walk away. Not so fast, because certainly there is a shared responsibility model that extends not only to data protection, but also to security. Look, don't get me wrong, the cloud service providers have fantastic security capabilities, have a great perimeter. But as you said, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. And when something happens, are you ready for it? So these solutions extend not only to on-prem but into the cloud. So it's that ability wherever the workload lives that you can get the right protection and what we're really now referring to as safeguarding data. Because it's a combination of data protection and security that's embedded and doing it wherever the workload resides. >> I'm glad you brought that up Colm. I have a follow up on that, but Nelson, did you want to add something? >> Well, I just want to mention that one of the biggest concerns is making sure that that data you vaulted is actually clean and safe. So we have a cyber sense capability within our cyber recovery product, that when you vault that data it does about 100 analytics on that data to make sure that there's no malware. That it's not infected. And it does it automatically and even on incremental using machine learning. >> That's really important because mistakes happen really fast. (laughing) So if you're vaulting corrupted data, >> What do you do? >> Oops. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I want to come back, I think the shared responsibility model is not well understand and there's a lot of confusion in the industry. At a conference this year, AWS' CISO Stephen Schmidt was saying, look all this talk about security is broken it's not really productive. The state of security in the cloud is actually really good and to your point Colm, yeah, he's right about that. Then you hear Pat Gelsinger saying, he's told me many times in theCUBE security is a do-over. To my point, you know the 86 trillion. And so I kind of lean, when I talk to IT people what Pat is saying. So you say okay, where is the dissidence there? Well, the reality is is the cloud service providers and the shared security model, they'll secure the physical infrastructure. But it's up to the customer to be responsible for everything else. You know, the edicts of the organization are applied. We were talking to the CISO of a large insurance company and she said to us, oh no, shared responsibility means it's our responsibility. So you're not going to go after the cloud service provider, you're going to go after the insurance company, or the financial service institution. Their brand is the one that's going to get hurt. So that's misunderstood. My question, very long winded rant, but what role do you guys play in that shared responsibility model? >> Well, ultimately it comes down to the customer. And the shared responsibility model really is admissible, as you mentioned, right? And so at the end of the day, you as the customer own and are responsible to protect that data. So your data protection strategy, your cyber resilience strategy has to be sound. And it has to be secured by those that can actually do it across multiple distribution models and platforms, whether it's edge, core or cloud. Whether it's VM's, containers. It doesn't change. You're still ultimately responsible for it. >> I think maybe what you might be driving at the question, Dave, is empowering the customers to maintain control of their data. And having the tools in place so that they feel comfortable. And part of it too is moving more towards automation. Because as their applications grow, and as Nelson said, become more distributed, as the data grows exponentially, this just fundamentally isn't a task that humans can manage very much longer. >> I'm glad you brought that up, because you ask a CISO, what's your number one problem? And he or she will tell you the skill sets to keep up with all this complexity. And that's where automation comes in. >> Correct, it does. So that's where we're taking it. Is trying to make things more automated and take tasks away from humans that they just can't keep up with. >> All right guys, I'll give you the last word. We go back a decade or so ago and backup was a whole different situation. And we saw the rise of virtualization and now cloud and all these other things that we have been talking about. Edge, the cyber threats, et cetera. So bring us home, where do you see the future and how does Dell EMC data protection fit in? >> It's an exciting time, it really is. It's kind of like the coming of that second storm as you mentioned. Businesses have that demand of needing more services to load more quickly in an agile fashion. And as they pair that with the growth of their data which is distributed, they really have that challenge overall of how do I manage this environment? So you have to have the observability to understand where your data is and to be able to monitor it. You have to be able to orchestrate your workloads so that they're automated, and the data protection of those workloads are automated as well. And so the imperative that aspects like Tanzu are addressing with cloud native, that Kubernetes brings to the table to deliver containerized applications. That's really quite honestly is the biggest evolution I've seen in my last 20 to 30 years. This is definitely a different paradigm shift. >> Yeah, you know, six months ago I was with a competitor and was taking a look at EMC, sorry, I should say Dell EMC, and I was wondering, should I make a move over here? And really what convinced me was the fact that the company was willing to basically solve internally the innovator's dilemma. You're making so much money on your existing portfolio, now you're going to start investing in what appears to be almost internal competition to your portfolio. It's not, it's complimentary. So that's what drove the decision for me to come here, but I will also say it's great to be a part of an organization that has a long-term vision. You remember, I think the phrase that was being used, being held captive to the 90-day shot clock. You know, the earnings reports and stuff. And that drives behavior. Well, if your organization is looking at decade-long goals, that means that you can actually plan to do things that over time are going to actually bring real value to customers. So I think we're doing the right things. We're obviously innovating, we're on this agile software development cadence gives us the ability to solve the problems incrementally over time so customers can see that value instead of waiting for large batch releases. But is also gives us the ability to say, hey, when we've made mistakes or when we hadn't seen certain things come around the corner, we're agile enough to change with that. So I think the combination of having that vision and putting in the investments, and we've kind of likened ourselves to the biggest startup in the industry with the backing of a Fortune 50. And so from a customer standpoint you got to look at that and think, you know, that's interesting, because I need to solve my current problems today. I need to have a path forward for the future. And who am I betting on to deliver that? And the other thing I'll leave on is customers are trying to work with fewer suppliers, not more suppliers. Because they want to reduce the complexity. Well who has the ability to not only bring data protection to bear, but a whole portfolio of technology is really end to end. That can snap into those environments to again reduce complexity and drive more business value. >> That's a really interesting point you make about consolidations. Ever since I've been in this industry people want to deal with less suppliers and reduce the complexity. But you still see startups and VC's funding things. And what's happened is this consolidation, the big guys, you guys are the biggest consolidator. And I always say the rich get richer. There's always this tension between sort of, do I go out and buy the spoke, best of breed tools, or do I get them from somebody who can help me across the portfolio? That's really where your strength is. Guys, thank you so much. This is really a very important topic. Data protection is one of the most important areas that we've been covering. I've been reporting on it a lot. As I said, a lot of venture money has been flowing in. So I really appreciate you guys coming in, sharing your perspectives. And best of luck in the marketplace. >> Appreciate it, Dave. >> Thanks, this was great. >> You're welcome. All right, and thank you for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation >> live in. Welcome to a special cube conversation here in Palo Alto. The Cube Studios. Jon, for your host. We're here with a special panel. Talk about the new brand of tech leaders in this era of cloud computing data. Aye, aye. And engineering excellence with us. We have Christine Heckart to CEO of Scaler J. P. Krishna of Marthe Moorthy. These s VP of engineering a Copa software and Patna saying, VP of engineering a glass door. Guys, welcome to come the Cube conversation. Welcome, engineer. And you guys are all running engineering organizations. You've been a former engineer now running a big company CEO, engineering led company. This is a big trend that's clearly defined. No one needs any validation. Cloud computing has certainly changed the game, eh? I certainly the hottest trend with respect, the data machine learning and the benefits. They're changing the cultures of companies changing how things were built, how people are hired. You're starting to see a complete shift towards old way and new ways. I want to get your thoughts about the engineering opportunities. What is engineering excellence today mean in this modern error? >> Well, for us it we talk a lot about mastery and setting up an environment where engineers have a chance to build their own mastery. But they can also have the necessary tools and technologies to be master of their domain. And these domains, especially if it's cloud base. They're very distributed. They're very, very fast moving. There's a lot of continual risk s so you have to set them up in the right way so they could be successful. >> What's your thoughts? I mean, you guys air cutting edge startup? >> Yes. For us, it's very important that the environment, the working moment for engineers, is organically inspiring. And what I mean by that is when every engineer no, why are there what are they doing? Well, how their work is impacting the company in the business initiators. At the same time, we are making sure that their interests are aligned with Albert projects and work in a way that we are also in a healthy, very extending and stretching their skills when their work has a purpose. And that's what our mission is, which is we want to make sure that everybody finds an opportunity where they feel there's a purpose that its purpose driven, that's when we feel like it. That's a great environment where they will be inspired to come every day and deliver their 110% >> J p excellence and engineering. I mean, this is what people strive for. >> So excellent points from both off them and I. I think I have a slightly different take on it as well. Today's business is we are asked to respond really, really fast, maybe hear the tongue a gel everywhere, John, right? So it's about how do we respond to the needs of the business as quickly as you can On dhe, it becomes the mantra for the organization. Having said that, there is another side to it. The dark side is technical debt. That's something we all have toe grapple with because you're moving fast, you're making decisions. You're hoping things all right, You want to prove your thesis out there, but at the same time, you don't wantto put yourself behind so that it might come and bite you later. So it's finding that balance is really, really important, and that becomes the focal point of the organization. How do you move fast, but at the same time Hold it. Oh, do you not slow yourself down in the >> future? That's a great point. I want to get probably your thoughts. That's because open source has been really a different game changer from the old way to the new way. Because you could work with people from different companies. You can work on projects that a better man for other people as well. So it's got a communal aspect to it. But also there is an element of speed the same time agile forces, this kind of concept. So technical debt. You want to move fast, we gotta recover. You kind of know how to get there. How is open source? Change that in Europe in >> well, number one thing that opens and allows all smaller company especially but more companies is that now you you can take on an open source project and start rather starting from ground zero. You can start somewhere where you know it's already helped, and you have a framework ready to start working on. So you're not every two single time we're building our thinking off a new idea you're not starting. Okay, Now let me school start from ground up, right? So you already are at a certain level, the second area where, like you said, you know, we're a Joe. Uh, we have open source, but we also have certain level of customization that the customers needed our application needs. And that's what inspires engineers as well, which is taking the challenger for K. We have a code based. Now let me build something more interesting, more innovative. And then what they also love is giving back to the community. It's we're not. The companies are not just tech community engineering team. We are have a bigger engineering community now, the whole tackle, and that's what makes a big difference for us working in Silicon Valley to even be part of that and contributing factor. >> J P Talk about technical debt when it comes back to the modern era because you can go back to It's been around for a while. Technical dead concerts, not new, but it's always been kind of the water cooler come with core lead engineer and the team. The Aussies have a term called feature creeping. You know, the old days. I don't get it. The feature creep. Actually, it kind of takes it away because of you. If you're applying technical debt properly, you're managing the velocity of the project. So the question is, how is technical debt evolved to the management levels of senior engineering managers? Because that seems to be a key variable in managing the speed and quality of the teams with managing the table. Done. Now, management is what some other conversations. >> So the game depends on the stage of the company Onda stage of the projects you are. If you're in a really mature suffer environment, very you're not making a lot of change. It's OK. It's not the primary conversation off the topic. But if you're trying to you capture a market or promote an idea, it becomes the fundamental thesis, forgetting things out there quickly Now, getting things out there quickly doesn't mean you get to let users suffer. You had to build it in the right way, needs toe work, but at the same time it needs to be just enough so that we can We can get the feedback from from the user's on. At the same time, you probably would have left out potentially features on. Maybe you didn't even make certain decisions on Let's say, hi availability or our scalability. Maybe you wanna prove it out in only one region of the world and so on. So you have to find those balances, and it becomes part of the planning conversations right in the front. And as you go into the further iterations of the product, it becomes part of the prioritization conversation of the product managers because it's not just about getting one part done and getting it out there. But as it reached the full level of maturity that you would want, >> I'm sure there's a lot of debates about an engineer organizations because, you know, engineers a very vocal you. Yeah, so you could fall in love with your product of your time to market, maybe taking some technical debt to get product market fit. And that's my baby, though, when you got a re platform or re scale it to make it scale, bringing with your point you mentioned. How do you guys manage? Because this becomes a talent management. People say, Oh, you gotta manage the ECOWAS. But if some people are managing the project in there. They're going to fire over their skis on technical debt. You gotta kind of rain that in. How do you guys manage the people side of the equation? That because it's an art and a science at the same time? What's your thoughts? >> Well, I'll say this, um, supporting al aspects of change, right? That's also is an injury leader. It's a core responsibility and call it a priority for us, not just the technical debt, but also the market shifts. Technology shifts. We have new tech coming in. We have involving in evolving every technology. So how do via dear to and make sure that it's very important that engineering is supporting and kind of coming up with these technologies a tte the same time? We are not just pulling down to their version of grades and all of them, so in a jest, it's it's a core aspect of leadership to make sure that you, as we are supporting these changes, were also making sure that these changes are not pulling us down. So that should be proper quality checks. There should be a proper conversation and roadmap items which is saying that it's not attack debt. It's more of a tech investment, and we are talking about so that we're in lock steps with our business partner and not behind, so that now we're saying Okay, we need a whole quarter to develop new things. So it's an aspect of filmmaking. Sure, team this motivated >> This comes back to culture. Next question. I want to get you guys thoughts on this building. A positive work culture given engineering led organization. Christine, you're leading that now to start up because your own real fast a lot. A lot of engineers. They're probably a lot of opinions on what that looks like. What is the cultural quick? Because this sets the DNA early on for startup. But as you're maturing organization, you gotta track the best talent. And some say, Well, we work on We saw hard problems. That's kind of cliche, but ultimately you do have to kind of have that problem solving aspect. You gotta have a culture what is a successful work culture for engineering. >> So every everybody talks about engineers wanna solve hard problems. I think that's true. But as Pablo said earlier, if you can help every engineer connect what they're doing, every day to the higher purpose. The organization to the problem that you're solving and how that makes the customers like better in our case, were accompanied by engineers for engineer. So our engineers get really excited about giving other engineers in the world a better day. We have taken it one step further recently by starting a peer network because one of my observations coming into this organization is there are so many peer networks in I t. Because it's been a 30 year industry. There are tons of pure organizations for CEOs. There are tons appear organizations for C. M. O's, but there really aren't for engineers. And if we want to help engineers really develop their career and their full skill set and therefore develop into their full potential, it's about more than just training them. It's about giving them context and full social skills and giving them places where they can learn not just from the other engineers in their company, but from engineers across the organization or across the industry at their same level, and maybe from very different industries and maybe in very different environments. So I think in our case, you know, really trying to bring these peer networks together has been one way that we can not only pay it forward for our own engineers, but also help a lot of other engineers around of the industry >> how you guys handling the engineering talent pertaining, attracting and keeping the best now. >> So I think that's where the whole company comes together, in my view. So as an injuring leader, it's not just that I said the tune of my engineering or as to what? That hiring his top priority. It's where the whole company comes together. You're recruiting team to build the stellar interview process. You are, you know, heads of other orcs to make sure that across the board you're helping define a mission for your company that resonates with your candidates who would want to work with you. So it's a collective effort of building a stellar environment for us glass door when one of the few values is transparency and we live and die by it, which means that when someone is higher, they need to see that be within the company. We are transparent, so we'd share a lot of data. A lot of information, good and bad with every single person in the company. It's never, um, hidden at the same time. We build and set up trust in them to say, Hey, it's confidential. Make sure that it doesn't leave the company and it's been 11 years and it hasn't It has never been the case. >> What class door you don't want have a glass door entry on black. Gotta be transparent. That's the culture. Culture matters minutes. Your culture is all about sharing and being open. >> You will see it. So that's what this is, what God goes down spike for as well, right? Building transparency within the company culture and more and more as we see many stories that we have seen for various companies. And sometimes I get a bad story, too, and I get an invitation. Oh, you're from class door, you know. But that helps overall Rios living and working for user's and professionals. >> Cross is big for you guys, >> absolutely professionals who are in this world looking for a job and life because you're spending a lot of time at work. So we want you to get up every day and be inspired and happy about where you're going to work and for that. That's why we have sharing a lot of the insights about the company's from reviews and ratings and CEO data to make sure that when you make your decision of the next move, you are you can be fully trust. You could be fully confident that the date of your sharing the new with that you're making a good decision. >> J. P. Your thoughts. You guys are on a tear. We've got a great coverage of your the annual conference in Vegas. Recent cube coverage. Your company on paper looks like you're targeting one segment, but you have a lot of range and you're technical platform with data. Um, how you guys articulating to engineering? How do you keep them? What if some of the stories you tell them to attract them to join you guys? >> So number one thing is about the talent that we already have in hopes. So people want to come to work at a place where they can learn, contribute on dhe, also for their Carrie Carrie Respert, both inside Cooper and as the lead on coming into Cooper. They look at it and they say, Oh, you have ah, wide variety of things going on here. You're solving a business problem. But at the same time, the technology stocks are different. You're on all the best clothes are there, so that's an easy attraction for them to come in. But also, it's not just about getting people, and how do you retain them on? We've been lucky. That had very low tuition for many years. Right now in the engineering organization, especially in the value, it is a big deal. Andi. I think part of the things that that is the collaboration and cooperation that they get from everybody on. You know, it's an age old saying diversity and thought, unity in action, right? So I really promote people thinking about radius ideas and alternatives. But there is a time for that debate. And once we agree on a solution, we all pulled in and try to make that successful. And then you repeat that often, and it becomes part of part of the culture and the way the organization operates as >> a follow up to culture. One thing that's become pretty clear is that's global engineering. You mention the valley very competitive, some start ups that they get on that rocket ship can get all the great talent. If you will public everyone. Everyone gets rich of one's happy, a good mission behind it, you know, win win outside. Some stars have to attract talent. You've got to start going on here. You might have a good colonel of great engineers, but you have development environments all over the world, so remote is a big thing. How do you manage the engineer remote? It's a time zone base. Does it put leaders in charge? Is there a philosophy in the Amazon? Has a two pizza team is their big thing. You get small groups. How did you guys view the engineering makeup? Because this becomes a part of the operational tension but operating model of engineering thoughts >> I can go first. I think there is a tension between keeping teams working on one problem on not distributing it across the world for efficiency reasons. But at the same time, how do you all owe for continuity, especially if you have a problem in one area? Can somebody else from another region step in in a different time zone continuing? That's always a problem, and then the other one is in a landscape like ours, in which is not uncommon for many, many companies. It is not that they built a lot of fragmented things. They all need to work together. So having a level of continuity within the radius remote centers is really critical on everybody has their own recipe for this one. But the ones that works for us and I've seen that played out many times, is if you can get a set off teams, toe, focus on certain problem areas and become experts in those >> cohesive within their >> within the physical, and then also have enough critical mass within a center that gives you the good balance between working on. One thing. Worse is knowing everything. So so that works for us, and I I think that's that's the way to get out >> of the operating system. It is a couple highly cohesive, >> and you need to have the right technical leaders on both sides and be willing to collaborate with each other >> partner thoughts >> I want to emphasize on the last statement you really need strong good, really, you know, trusted leaders in the location to Canada, then inculcated more bigger team everything Glassdoor groove from one location to four locations in last three years. And one thing that we learned after our first remote location that we started was that when we seeded our new remote location with few people from the original location that hoped start, you know, the similar aspects of what glassware stands for and over core at those and values. And then, as we added, new people, they just can easily just transfer to them so that hope does in a big way. And then he moved to Chicago with the same idea and, of course, Brazil. Now with the same >> knowledge transfer culture transfer, >> it all makes it easy. Even you have few people seating from the original location that was court for us. >> Pop in actually started their first remote office in San Francisco, which has now become their headquarters. So she has a lot of experience. Everyone of scale er's customers globally. You know, we sell the engineer, so we're dealing with with our customers who are dealing with this problem all the time. And in addition to culture, one thing that seems to bubble up regularly is can do you know when they need a common tool set and where they can do their own thing. How do you, you know, balance that and where do you need a single source of truth that people can agree on? And again, where can people have different points of view? >> You're talking sing associates from code base to what could >> be whatever, Like in our case, it's yeah, if you're going to troubleshoot something, you know, where the logs, the truth in the logs, Are you gonna have a single source for that? But for other people, it could be the data that they're bringing in or how they analyze the business. But if you can be proactive about understanding, when is commonality of tools of approach, of philosophy, of data, whatever, when it's commonality going to be what we drive and when are we going to allow people to do their own thing? And if you can put that framework in place than people know when they have the latitude and when they got a snap to grit and you could move a lot more quickly and there's kind of a technical debt that isn't code based? It's more about this kind of stuff, right? It's tool based its process and culture based. And if you can be more proactive about avoiding that debt, then you're gonna move more quickly. >> Videoconferencing. Very, very important. You should be able to jump on a video Constance very easily to be able to connect with someone driving just a phone calls all of these face time, different areas of face time Technology plays a big role >> technology. This is This is a modern management challenge for the new way to leave because it used to be just outsource. Here's the specs member, the old P. R. D S and M R D's. There's the specs, and you just kind of build it. Now it's much more collaborative to your point. There's really product and engineering going on, and it's gotta be. It's evolving. This is a key new ingredient >> because the expectation on the quality of product is so much more higher than competition is so much more. >> And when you know these engineers build in a lot of cases, they have to operate it now. So, like you say, whether it's a free service to a consumer, Aurens in enterprise, the expectation is perfect. No downtime, no hiccups >> and the reward incentives now become a big part of this now. New way of doing things. So I gotta ask the natural question. What's the reward system? Because Google really kind of pioneered the idea of a host 20% of your time work on your own project. That was about a decade or so ago. Now it's evolved beyond that to free lunches and all these other perks, but this has got to appeal to the human being behind it. What are some of the reward mechanisms? You guys see his management that's that's helpful in growing, nurturing and scaling up engineering organizations. >> Well, engineers are human, and as every human autonomy is critical for any aspects of moderation. And that's what please the core level. Then, of course, lunches, matter and other perks and benefits matter. Snacks of pours. Good coffee machine definitely is the core of it, but autonomy of what you want to do and is that the line. But what we want or what we are trying to deliver, and the aspect and the information of I did and rolled this out, what was the impact of it? That new should go back to that engineer who built that. So threading it through to the end and from the start is its very core for everybody to know because I want to know what I'm as I'm going every day. How is it helping >> and we really try. I personally try Thio. Make sure that each human on the team, regardless of their function, that we understand their potential and their career aspirations because a lot of times the the normal ladder, whatever that lander is, might not be right for every person. And people can pivot and use their skills in very, very different ways, and we need to invest in their ability to try new things. If it doesn't work out, let him come back. So you know, we try to spend time as a company for engineers not just in our company, but beyond. To really help them build out their own career, build out their own brands. Engineers more and more could be, you know, on TV shows and doing blog's and building out their own personal brand in their point of view. And that gives them impact. That goes beyond the one piece of code that they're writing for a company in a given day or a week. >> J. P you guys went public stock options. All these things going on as well. Your thoughts? Yeah, >> I just came back from a trip to my newest Dev center in Hyderabad, India. It's funny. I had sessions with every team over there. The number one topic was full >> s >> so excited about food. So there is something primal about food. Having said that, I think, uh, praise and recognition the age old things. They matter so much. That's what I've seen You acknowledge what somebody has done and kind of feedback to elect partner was saying, The impact that it creates, you know, it's it's a lot more fulfilling than monetary incentives. Not that they're not useful. Occasionally they are. But I think repeating that on doing it more often creates a sense off. Okay, here's what we can accomplish as a team. It is how I can contribute to it, and that creates a normal sense of purpose. >> Austin, you guys talked about tools of commonality is kind of key. It's always gonna be debates about which tools, much codes, languages to use, encoding, etcetera. But this brings up the notion of application development as you get continuous development. This is the operating model for modern engineering. What's the state of the art? What do you guys seeing as a best practice as managers to keep the machinery humming and moving along? And what what's on the horizon? What's next? >> Yeah, in my view, I would just say So what's humming and what state of the art I think I is core thio. Most of the systems and applications, the, uh, the core aspect of pretty much every company as you see, and that's the buzz word, even in Silicon Valley for the right reasons, is how we have built our platforms, insistence and ideas. But now let's make it smarter, and every company now has a lot of data. We are swimming in data, but it's very important that we can pick and pull the the core insides from that data to then power the same product and same system to make it more smarter, right? The whole goal for us ourselves is where they're making our platform or smarter, with the goal of making it more personalized and making sure that as users are navigating a project, pages they are seeing more personalized information so that they're not wasting their time there. We can make faster decisions in more rich data set, which is very catered towards them. So smart, so building that intelligence is core. >> And with continues, integration comes, continues risk. All right, so no risk, no reward. And so we live in an era of freemium. Free service is so you know why not take the risk? You don't have to do an A B test. You got digital. You do a B, C D and use all kinds of analytics. So this is actually a creative opportunity for engineering as they get to the front lines you mentioned earlier getting part of the empowerment. How is the risk taking changing the management? >> You know, I deal with class off users were willing to pay money, so I don't know if I can talk a lot about the freedom aspect of the problem. But now there's always desire for new functionality. If you want it, otherwise you don't want it. There's a lot of risk of worsens that's still floating around, especially in the interprets there today. On it is a big tension that you have to deal with. If you're not careful, then you can introduce problems on believing you're operating on the cloud and you're servicing thousands of customers. A small change can bring down the entire ecosystem, so you'll take it very seriously. You're helping others run their business, and that means you had invest in the right tools and processes. >> So you guys are actually Freemium business model, but still engineers. I got a test that they want to take the rhythms. So is it a cloud sand boxing? How is the risk taking managed? How you guys encouraging risk without having people hurt? You don't >> wantto overburden engineers to the point. They feel stifled and they cannot do anything. So there is a right balance. So you know, there are many techniques we follow the. For example, we roll out the software, tow US staging environment so customers can play around and make sure things are not breaking for their comfort more so than for us. But it is an important part of the equation, and then internally, you have to invest a lot of planning. Appropriately, there are the high risk content on the features, and then there are the low risk ones. You want to think about experimentation frameworks in no way be testing and so on and more importantly, about automation and testing. I don't think if a customer logs a bug and finds the problem, they don't want to see it one more time. Ever really have to make sure that those things don't happen when you're investing robust automation around testing processes because there isn't enough time for the complexity of these applications for destiny thing, man, >> this whale automation with cloud comes in containers kubernetes. All of >> those things, you know you heard will enable engineers with the technology said so that they contested scale. You have to provide access to production like data because you have to worry about no privacy, security and all those aspects. But at the same time, they need to have access to the variety off configurations that are out there so that they contested meaningful so to invest in all of those things. >> But I'll take it back to kind of where we started. This, which is the human factor with continuous delivery, is this continuous risk, and it doesn't matter if this engineer is supporting a free consumer application or the highest end of enterprise. When something goes wrong, this, their stress level goes through the roof and you know, how can we equipped? These people, too, solve problems in real time to have that visibility, to have whatever tool said or date or whatever they need? Because at the end of the day, a bad day for an engineer is a day when something is breaking and they're the ones that have to stay up all night and fix it and a good day for an engineer. A human being is the day they get to go home and have dinner with the family or not be woken up in the night. And there is >> for kite surfing or whatever, you >> know, whatever they dio, there's, you know, there is truly a human way. We think about engineers and engineers get up every day, and they want to change the world and they want to make an impact. And thank God we have, you know, teams of engineers that do that for all of us, and they're human beings, and there's a level of continuous stress that we've injected into their lives every day and to the extent that we, as companies and managers and leaders, can help take some of that burden off of them. The world becomes >> the whole being seeing the results of their work to is rewarding as well. >> Scaler does a lot of stuff there, so I have to call that are at the same time in a lot of very good nuggets, J P. Brother. But one more thing that has shifted in terms of how process of practice works is more of more. Engineers now participate very early on in product development is in the day. They try to understand what is the context and why are we doing. And we do a lot of users research to understand that that process, so that they have full context, that they are building in developing eso they're more of a partner now and not an afterthought. >> Think agile And Dev ops to me has proven that the notion of silos and waterfall practices has democratizing flatten. The organization's out where interdisciplinary crossovers are happening. >> Oh, yes, >> and this has been an interesting art of management is encouraging the right person that crust over the right line was you give people little taste, but sometimes they may not belong there kind of called herding cats in the old days. But now it's more of managing kind of interests and growth there. >> That original Dev ops model, though if you have anybody read the Phoenix project like years ago, but it it was really about bringing different points of view. It's a diversity thing. It's bringing different points of view around the table before the first line. It is written so that you're thinking about every angle on the problem and on the ongoing operation of whatever you're building >> Well, it's all about diversity and inclusion and diversity. I was with states, inclusion and diversity, diversity, inclusion Because male and females are involved. We have two females in tech here. This has been a discussion. We still don't have the numbers up to the senior levels within engineering in general. What has to happen to move the needle for women in tech and or inclusionary people involved in engineering to get the right perspective? What's what's >> not? Start with J P because he's actually a huge champion, and without the men involved, we don't have a solutions, >> inclusion and diversity, J. P your thoughts on this was super important. >> Yeah, Number one is recognition. I was stealing Christine yesterday. I just came back from India. That's like told you I took a picture there of my management team. Came back here, looked at it. There is no female, No right, it's crazy. I mean, it's not that we're not trying on gum it. We had the same problem and we started our center in 2015 right? There was a group picture off the team. There was like they were like two women on the thing. We put a lot of effort into it on. Two years later, a significant chunk of the organization has got women embedded in the team's came because we tried. We went out. Look, for those who are good in this area is not that we compromised on the qualifications. It's really about putting some energy in tow, getting the right resumes and then looking at it. The other thing. We're also doing his cultivation. You have to go to the grassroots because there are just enough women engineers. It's unfortunate, for whatever reasons, they're not taking up that professional military enough studies written on it So last two years we weigh, have conducted something called rails. Girls in India, 150 school age children, Women. I mean, girls come in and then we have supported them, run their classes, hold a class. And that helps, you know, even if 10% off them, you know, choose to take up this profession. It's gonna be a big boost. And we have to do a lot more of those in my opinion. >> Europe T rex President Leading Engineering. What's your view? >> Well, I'll say this, you know, for the people who are participating in helping drive this mission just like J. P. I say thank you, especially for men who are participating in it. We cannot do this without you, but for all the people who, if they're not participate in participating in helping drive this mission, I have all share this one data, uh, one of the initiative that glass or drives this gender pay gap, which is also an outcome off, not having diverse outlook at all levels into in the workplace. And we in our economic research team. They did a study and they shared a projection off when will be closed. The gender pay gap. It's 2017. That's depressing. So for for me, when I hear people who say you know, they, they don't want to participate or they don't think this is the right approach of solving for diversity in workplace, I say Okay, but that's not the reason for you to not participate and stay out. If it join it, join it in your own way. But it's only when l offers. Can I see it as a real problem and participate just like Gibby, as you said grassroot level as well as outside One of the example that I told my team when they say, You know, we don't want to drop the bar, the quality bar, I say Sure, don't drive it, but don't drop it. But if you have two candidates, one with a diverse background, Um, who who might be after cable to the same job in 2 to 3 months over someone who slam dunk today, let's invest in the person who is bringing the diverse background for 2 to 3 months and then make them successful. That's not dropping the bar that's still supporting and investing in helping diversity. >> My good friend and heat you saw at IBM. They put out a survey said Diversity, inclusion, diversity. First companies have a bit of advantage, so the investment is so much lower in the bars, more bringing perspective because if we tell about software here has male and female and that's being 17% female, it's >> not just, you know, I had two things to the comments, all of which I agree with one. It's not just a pipeline problem. It is a a culture problem where people have to feel welcome and it has to be a comfortable environment, and they have to believe that their diverse point of view matters and doesn't matter if they're men or women. But there are lots of times when we all make it hard for somebody with a different point of view to enter the conversation. So we have to do a better job of creating the culture, and secondly, there's a saying you have to see it to be it. We have to see people of diversity, gender and of every other type, cognitive diversity of all types at every level in the company. And, you know, we had the same thing, so I'm lucky enough to send a Fortune 500 public board. And I spend a lot of my time helping women and people of color and diversity get on public boards. But if you go back seven years ago, we were 14% women on public boards and it did not move and it did not move and it did not move and in one year popped over 20%. And that's before the loss. So you know, you make these linear projections we can with effort, yes, actually make >> a >> difference. It just takes a very concerted effort. And in this case, particularly for engineering and for leadership, it is making a concerted effort at every level, from board to CEO to executive team to all levels down. Making sure we have inclusion and diversity in >> this is a modern management challenge in the new way of leading managing >> this process. These things, This >> is the big challenge, folks, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate. Final question for you guys is what if you could summarize the new way to lead and his modern error from an engineering standpoint, building out of companies building along durable value creation with its company a product or service. What is the key keys to success >> as a leader >> as a leader has a new brand of leaders. >> I would say, You know, this lot goes into, I'm sure you need to know engineering and all the strategic aspect of your job. But the core aspect I feel, is as a leader, my success depends on the quality of relationships I'm building with my team and members that I work with. So that goes into the people aspect, the people connection that goes into it, >> J p. >> Absolutely People are are a big portion of the story. I also feel understanding the problem and driving for results. You know, it's not just about building something. It's about building for a purpose. What is it that you're you're tryingto accomplish and continuing to find that? And working with the teams is so critical for success, especially in a fast moving in Christine. >> Yeah, I agree. It is all about the people, and I think old and new. This hasn't changed. People need to feel like they belong and they're being appreciated, and they're being heard >> scaler. Glass door Copa software. You guys do a great work. Thanks for sharing the engineering inputs, Thio. Leading successful companies. >> Thank you for >> your leadership. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm shot for the Q. Thanks for watching. >> Well.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back. Everyone's Cube Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, for AWS. Reinforce Amazon Web sources. First inaugural conference around security. It's not Osama. It's a branded event. Big time ecosystem developing. We have returning here. Cube Alumni Bill Jeff for VP of strategy and the partnerships that Iron Net Cyber Security Company. Welcome back. Thanks. General Keith Alexander, who was on a week and 1/2 ago. And it was public sector summit. Good to see you. Good >> to see you. Thanks for >> having my back, but I want to get into some of the Iran cyber communities. We had General Qi 1000. He was the original commander of the division. So important discussions that have around that. But don't get your take on the event. You guys, you're building a business. The minute cyber involved in public sector. This is commercial private partnership. Public relations coming together. Yeah. Your models are sharing so bringing public and private together important. >> Now that's exactly right. And it's really great to be here with eight of us were really close partner of AWS is we'll work with them our entire back in today. Runs on AWS really need opportunity. Get into the ecosystem, meet some of the folks that are working that we might work with my partner but to deliver a great product, right? And you're seeing a lot of people move to cloud, right? And so you know some of the big announcement that are happening here today. We're willing. We're looking to partner up with eight of us and be a first time provider for some key new Proactiv elves. AWS is launching in their own platform here today. So that's a really neat thing for us to be partnered up with this thing. Awesome organization. I'm doing some of >> the focus areas around reinforcing your party with Amazon shares for specifics. >> Yes. So I don't know whether they announced this capability where they're doing the announcement yesterday or today. So I forget which one so I'll leave that leave that leave that once pursued peace out. But the main thing is, they're announcing couple of new technology plays way our launch party with them on the civility place. So we're gonna be able to do what we were only wanted to do on Prem. We're gonna be able to do in the cloud with AWS in the cloud formation so that we'll deliver the same kind of guy that would deliver on prime customers inside their own cloud environments and their hybrid environment. So it's a it's a it's a sea change for us. The company, a sea change for a is delivering that new capability to their customers and really be able to defend a cloud network the way you would nonpregnant game changer >> described that value, if you would. >> Well, so you know, one of the key things about about a non pregnant where you could do you could look at all the flows coming past you. You look at all the data, look at in real time and develop behavior. Lana looks over. That's what we're doing our own prime customers today in the cloud with his world who looked a lox, right? And now, with the weight of your capability, we're gonna be able to integrate that and do a lot Maur the way we would in a in a in a normal sort of on Prem environment. So you really did love that. Really? Capability of scale >> Wagon is always killed. The predictive analytics, our visibility and what you could do. And too late. Exactly. Right. You guys solve that with this. What are some of the challenges that you see in cloud security that are different than on premise? Because that's the sea, So conversation we've been hearing. Sure, I know on premise. I didn't do it on premises for awhile. What's the difference between the challenge sets, the challenges and the opportunities they provide? >> Well, the opportunities air really neat, right? Because you've got that even they have a shared responsibility model, which is a little different than you officially have it. When it's on Prem, it's all yours essential. You own that responsibility and it is what it is in the cloud. Its share responsible to cloud provider the data holder. Right? But what's really cool about the cloud is you could deliver some really interesting Is that scale you do patch updates simultaneously, all your all your back end all your clients systems, even if depending how your provisioning cloud service is, you could deliver that update in real time. You have to worry about. I got to go to individual systems and update them, and some are updated. Summer passed. Some aren't right. Your servers are packed simultaneously. You take him down, you're bringing back up and they're ready to go, right? That's a really capability that for a sigh. So you're delivering this thing at scale. It's awesome now, So the challenge is right. It's a new environment so that you haven't dealt with before. A lot of times you feel the hybrid environment governed both an on Prem in sanitation and class sensation. Those have to talkto one another, right? And you might think about Well, how do I secure those those connections right now? And I think about spending money over here when I got all seduced to spend up here in the cloud. And that's gonna be a hard thing precisely to figure out, too. And so there are some challenges, but the great thing is, you got a whole ecosystem. Providers were one of them here in the AWS ecosystem. There are a lot here today, and you've got eight of us as a part of self who wants to make sure that they're super secure, but so are yours. Because if you have a problem in their cloud, that's a challenge. Them to market this other people. You talk about >> your story because your way interviews A couple weeks ago, you made a comment. I'm a recovering lawyer, kind of. You know, we all laughed, but you really start out in law, right? >> How did you end up here? Yeah, well, the truth is, I grew up sort of a technology or myself. My first computer is a trash 80 a trs 80 color computer. RadioShack four k of RAM on board, right. We only >> a true TRS 80. Only when I know what you're saying. That >> it was a beautiful system, right? Way stored with sword programs on cassette tapes. Right? And when we operated from four Keita 16 k way were the talk of the Rainbow Computer Club in Santa Monica, California Game changer. It was a game here for 16. Warning in with 60 give onboard. Ram. I mean, this is this is what you gonna do. And so you know, I went from that and I in >> trouble or something, you got to go to law school like you're right >> I mean, you know, look, I mean, you know it. So my dad, that was a chemist, right? So he loved computers, love science. But he also had an unrequited political boners body. He grew up in East Africa, Tanzania. It was always thought that he might be a minister in government. The Socialist came to power. They they had to leave you at the end of the day. And he came to the states and doing chemistry, which is course studies. But he still loved politics. So he raised at NPR. So when I went to college, I studied political science. But I paid my way through college doing computer support, life sciences department at the last moment. And I ran 10 based. He came on climate through ceilings and pulled network cable do punch down blocks, a little bit of fibrous placing. So, you know, I was still a murderer >> writing software in the scythe. >> One major, major air. And that was when when the web first came out and we had links. Don't you remember? That was a text based browser, right? And I remember looking to see him like this is terrible. Who would use http slash I'm going back to go for gophers. Awesome. Well, turns out I was totally wrong about Mosaic and Netscape. After that, it was It was it was all hands on >> deck. You got a great career. Been involved a lot in the confluence of policy politics and tech, which is actually perfect skill set for the challenge we're dealing. So I gotta ask you, what are some of the most important conversations that should be on the table right now? Because there's been a lot of conversations going on around from this technology. I has been around for many decades. This has been a policy problem. It's been a societal problem. But now this really focus on acute focus on a lot of key things. What are some of the most important things that you think should be on the table for techies? For policymakers, for business people, for lawmakers? >> One. I think we've got to figure out how to get really technology knowledge into the hands of policymakers. Right. You see, you watch the Facebook hearings on Capitol Hill. I mean, it was a joke. It was concerning right? I mean, anybody with a technology background to be concerned about what they saw there, and it's not the lawmakers fault. I mean, you know, we've got to empower them with that. And so we got to take technologist, threw it out, how to get them to talk policy and get them up on the hill and in the administration talking to folks, right? And one of the big outcomes, I think, has to come out of that conversation. What do we do about national level cybersecurity, Right, because we assume today that it's the rule. The private sector provides cyber security for their own companies, but in no other circumstance to expect that when it's a nation state attacker, wait. We don't expect Target or Wal Mart or any other company. J. P. Morgan have surface to air missiles on the roofs of their warehouses or their buildings to Vegas Russian bear bombers. Why, that's the job of the government. But when it comes to cyberspace, we expect Private Cummings defending us everything from a script kiddie in his basement to the criminal hacker in Eastern Europe to the nation state, whether Russia, China, Iran or North Korea and these nation states have virtually a limited resource. Your armies did >> sophisticated RND technology, and it's powerful exactly like a nuclear weaponry kind of impact for digital. >> Exactly. And how can we expect prices comes to defend themselves? It's not. It's not a fair fight. And so the government has to have some role. The questions? What role? How did that consist with our values, our principles, right? And how do we ensure that the Internet remains free and open, while still is sure that the president is not is not hampered in doing its job out there. And I love this top way talk about >> a lot, sometimes the future of warfare. Yeah, and that's really what we're talking about. You go back to Stuxnet, which opened Pandora's box 2016 election hack where you had, you know, the Russians trying to control the mean control, the narrative. As you pointed out, that that one video we did control the belief system you control population without firing a shot. 20 twenties gonna be really interesting. And now you see the U. S. Retaliate to Iran in cyberspace, right? Allegedly. And I was saying that we had a conversation with Robert Gates a couple years ago and I asked him. I said, Should we be Maur taking more of an offensive posture? And he said, Well, we have more to lose than the other guys Glasshouse problem? Yeah, What are your thoughts on? >> Look, certainly we rely intimately, inherently on the cyber infrastructure that that sort of is at the core of our economy at the core of the world economy. Increasingly, today, that being said, because it's so important to us all the more reason why we can't let attacks go Unresponded to write. And so if you're being attacked in cyberspace, you have to respond at some level because if you don't, you'll just keep getting punched. It's like the kid on the playground, right? If the bully keeps punching him and nobody does anything, not not the not the school administration, not the kid himself. Well, then the boy's gonna keep doing what he's doing. And so it's not surprising that were being tested by Iran by North Korea, by Russia by China, and they're getting more more aggressive because when we don't punch back, that's gonna happen. Now we don't have to punch back in cyberspace, right? A common sort of fetish about Cyrus is a >> response to the issue is gonna respond to the bully in this case, your eggs. Exactly. Playground Exactly. We'll talk about the Iran. >> So So if I If I if I can't Yeah, the response could be Hey, we could do this. Let them know you could Yes. And it's a your move >> ate well, And this is the key is that it's not just responding, right. So Bob Gates or told you we can't we talk about what we're doing. And even in the latest series of alleged responses to Iran, the reason we keep saying alleged is the U. S has not publicly acknowledged it, but the word has gotten out. Well, of course, it's not a particularly effective deterrence if you do something, but nobody knows you did it right. You gotta let it out that you did it. And frankly, you gotta own it and say, Hey, look, that guy punch me, I punch it back in the teeth. So you better not come after me, right? We don't do that in part because these cables grew up in the intelligence community at N S. A and the like, and we're very sensitive about that But the truth is, you have to know about your highest and capabilities. You could talk about your abilities. You could say, Here are my red lines. If you cross him, I'm gonna punch you back. If you do that, then by the way, you've gotta punch back. They'll let red lines be crossed and then not respond. And then you're gonna talk about some level of capabilities. It can't all be secret. Can't all be classified. Where >> are we in this debate? Me first. Well, you're referring to the Thursday online attack against the intelligence Iranian intelligence community for the tanker and the drone strike that they got together. Drone take down for an arm in our surveillance drones. >> But where are we >> in this debate of having this conversation where the government should protect and serve its people? And that's the role. Because if a army rolled in fiscal army dropped on the shores of Manhattan, I don't think Citibank would be sending their people out the fight. Right? Right. So, like, this is really happening. >> Where are we >> on this? Like, is it just sitting there on the >> table? What's happening? What's amazing about it? Hi. This was getting it going well, that that's a Q. What's been amazing? It's been happening since 2012 2011 right? We know about the Las Vegas Sands attack right by Iran. We know about North Korea's. We know about all these. They're going on here in the United States against private sector companies, not against the government. And there's largely been no response. Now we've seen Congress get more active. Congress just last year passed to pass legislation that gave Cyber command the authority on the president's surgery defenses orders to take action against Russia, Iran, North Korea and China. If certain cyber has happened, that's a good thing, right to give it. I'll be giving the clear authority right, and it appears the president willing to make some steps in that direction, So that's a positive step. Now, on the back end, though, you talk about what we do to harden ourselves, if that's gonna happen, right, and the government isn't ready today to defend the nation, even though the Constitution is about providing for the common defense, and we know that the part of defense for long. For a long time since Secretary Panetta has said that it is our mission to defend the nation, right? But we know they're not fully doing that. How do they empower private sector defense and one of keys That has got to be Look, if you're the intelligence community or the U. S. Government, you're Clinton. Tremendous sense of Dad about what you're seeing in foreign space about what the enemy is doing, what they're preparing for. You have got to share that in real time at machine speed with industry. And if you're not doing that and you're still count on industry to be the first line defense, well, then you're not empowered. That defense. And if you're on a pair of the defense, how do you spend them to defend themselves against the nation? State threats? That's a real cry. So >> much tighter public private relationship. >> Absolutely, absolutely. And it doesn't have to be the government stand in the front lines of the U. S. Internet is, though, is that you could even determine the boundaries of the U. S. Internet. Right? Nobody wants an essay or something out there doing that, but you do want is if you're gonna put the private sector in the in the line of first defense. We gotta empower that defense if you're not doing that than the government isn't doing its job. And so we gonna talk about this for a long time. I worked on that first piece of information sharing legislation with the House chairman, intelligence Chairman Mike Rogers and Dutch Ruppersberger from Maryland, right congressman from both sides of the aisle, working together to get a fresh your decision done that got done in 2015. But that's just a first step. The government's got to be willing to share classified information, scaled speed. We're still not seeing that. Yeah, How >> do people get involved? I mean, like, I'm not a political person. I'm a moderate in the middle. But >> how do I How do people get involved? How does the technology industry not not the >> policy budgets and the top that goes on the top tech companies, how to tech workers or people who love Tad and our patriots and or want freedom get involved? What's the best approach? >> Well, that's a great question. I think part of is learning how to talk policy. How do we get in front policymakers? Right. And we're I run. I run a think tank on the side at the National Institute at George Mason University's Anton Scalia Law School Way have a program funded by the Hewlett Foundation who were bringing in technologists about 25 of them. Actually. Our next our second event. This Siri's is gonna be in Chicago this weekend. We're trained these technologies, these air data scientists, engineers and, like talk Paul's right. These are people who said We want to be involved. We just don't know how to get involved And so we're training him up. That's a small program. There's a great program called Tech Congress, also funded by the U. A. Foundation that places technologists in policy positions in Congress. That's really cool. There's a lot of work going on, but those are small things, right. We need to do this, its scale. And so you know, what I would say is that their technology out there want to get involved, reach out to us, let us know well with our partners to help you get your information and dad about what's going on. Get your voice heard there. A lot of organizations to that wanna get technologies involved. That's another opportunity to get in. Get in the building is a >> story that we want to help tell on be involved in David. I feel passion about this. Is a date a problem? So there's some real tech goodness in there. Absolutely. People like to solve hard problems, right? I mean, we got a couple days of them. You've got a big heart problems. It's also for all the people out there who are Dev Ops Cloud people who like to work on solving heart problems. >> We got a lot >> of them. Let's do it. So what's going on? Iron? Give us the update Could plug for the company. Keith Alexander found a great guy great guests having on the Cube. That would give the quick thanks >> so much. So, you know, way have done two rounds of funding about 110,000,000. All in so excited. We have partners like Kleiner Perkins Forge point C five all supporting us. And now it's all about We just got a new co CEO in Bill Welshman. See Scaler and duo. So he grew Z scaler. $1,000,000,000 valuation he came in to do Oh, you know, they always had a great great exit. Also, we got him. We got Sean Foster in from from From Industry also. So Bill and Sean came together. We're now making this business move more rapidly. We're moving to the mid market. We're moving to a cloud platform or aggressively and so exciting times and iron it. We're coming toe big and small companies near you. We've got the capability. We're bringing advanced, persistent defense to bear on his heart problems that were threat analytics. I collected defence. That's the key to our operation. We're excited >> to doing it. I call N S A is a service, but that's not politically correct. But this is the Cube, so >> Well, look, if you're not, if you want to defensive scale, right, you want to do that. You know, ECE knows how to do that key down here at the forefront of that when he was in >> the government. Well, you guys are certainly on the cutting edge, riding that wave of common societal change technology impact for good, for defence, for just betterment, not make making a quick buck. Well, you know, look, it's a good business model by the way to be in that business. >> I mean, It's on our business cards. And John Xander means it. Our business. I'd say the Michigan T knows that he really means that, right? Rather private sector. We're looking to help companies to do the right thing and protect the nation, right? You know, I protect themselves >> better. Well, our missions to turn the lights on. Get those voices out there. Thanks for coming on. Sharing the lights. Keep covers here. Day one of two days of coverage. Eight of us reinforce here in Boston. Stay with us for more Day one after this short break.

>> from San Matteo. It's the Cube covering Scaler. Innovation Day. Brought to You by Scaler >> The Run Welcome to this special on the Ground Innovation Day. I'm John for a host of The Cube. We're here at scale. His headquarters in San Mateo, California Hardest Silicon Valley. But here the cofounder and CEO Steve, It's Irwin Ski and Jeff Low product marketing director. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Thank you. But a great day so far talked Teo, the other co founders and team here. Great product opportunity. You guys been around for a couple of years, Got a lot of customers, Uh, just newly minted funded syriza and standard startup terms. That seems early, but you guys are far along, you guys, A unique architecture. What's so unique about the architecture? >> Well, thinks there's really three elements of the architecture's designed that I would highlight that differentiates us from our competitors. Three things that really set us apart. I think the biggest the 1st 1 is our use of a common our database. This is what allows us to provide a really superior search experience even though we're not using keyword indexing. Its purpose built for this problem domain and just provides us with great performance in scale. The second thing I would highlight would be the use of well, essentially were a cloud native solution. We have been architected in such a way that we can leverage the great advantage of cloud the scale, ability that cloud gives you the theological city. That cloud gives you andare. Architecture was built from the ground up to leverage that, uh and finally I would point out the way that we do our data. Um, the way that we don't silo data by data type, essentially any type of observe ability, data, whether it's logs or tracing or metrics. All that data comes into this great platform that we were in that provides a really great superior query performance over, >> and we talked earlier about Discover ability. I want to just quickly ask you about the keyword indexing and the cloud native. To me, that seems to be a two big pieces because a lot of the older all current standards people who are state of the art few years ago, 10 years ago, keyword index thing was a big part of it, and cloud native was still emerging except for those folks that were born the clouds. So >> this is a dynamic. How important is that? Oh, it's It's just critical. I mean, here, when we go to the white board, I love to talk about this in a little more detail in particular. So let's let's talk about keyword indexing, right? Because you're right. This is a lot of the technology that people leverage right now. It's what all of our competitors do in keyword indexing. Let's let's look at this from the point of view of a log ingestion pipeline. So in your first stage, you have your input, right? You've got your raw logs coming in. The first thing you do after that typically is parse. You're goingto parse out whatever fields you want from your logs. Now, all of our competitors, after they do that, they do in indexing step. Okay, this has a lot of expense to it. In fact, I'm going to dig into that after the log content is index. It's finally available for search. Where will be returned as a search result. Okay, this one little box, this little index box actually has a lot of costs associated with it. It contributes to the bloat of storage. It contributes to the cost of the overall product. In fact, that's why I love our competitors. Charge you based on how much you're indexing now, even how much you're ingesting. When you look at the cost for indexing, I think you can break it down into a few different categories. First of all, building the index. There's certain costs with just taking this data, building the index and storing it. Computational storage, memory, everything okay, But you build the index in order to get superior query performance, Right? So that kind of tells you that you're going to have another cost. You're going tohave an optimization cost. Where the index is that you're building are dependent on the queries that your users want to conduct, right, because you're trying to make sure you get as good of query performance as possible. So you have to take a look at the career. Is that your user performing the types of logs that you're coming in and you have to decide what indexing that you want to do? Okay. And that cost is shouldered by the burden of the customers. Um, okay, but nothing static in this world. So at some point your logs are going to change. The type of logs here in Justin is going to change. Maybe your query is goingto change. And so you have another category of costs, which is maintenance, right? You're going to have to react to changes in your infrastructure. It's used the type of logs you're ingesting, and basically, this is just creates a whole big loop where you have to keep an eye on your performance. You have to be constantly optimizing, maintaining and just going around in the circle. Right? And for us, we just thought that was ridiculous because all this costs is being born by the customer. And so when we designed the system, we just wanted to get rid of that. >> That's the classic shark fin. You see a fin on anything great whites going to eat you up or iceberg. You see that tip you don't see what's underneath? This seems to be the key problem, because the trend is more data. New data micro services gonna throw off new data type so that types is going up a CZ. Well, that's what that does that consistent with what you got just >> that's consistent. I mean, what we hear from our customers is they want flexibility, right? These are customers that are building service oriented, highly scalable applications on top of new infrastructure. They're reacting to changes everywhere, so they want to be able to not have to, you know, optimize their careers. They're not goingto want to maintain things. They just want to search product that works. That works over everything that they're ingesting. >> So, good plan. You eliminate that fly wheel of cost right for the index. But you guys, you were proprietary columnist, Or that's the key on >> your That's a Chiana and flexibility on data types. Yes, it does. And here, let me draw a little something to kind of highlight that because, you know, of course, it's a it begs the question. Okay, we're not doing keyword indexing. What do you do? What we do actually is leverage decades of research and distribute systems on commoner databases, and I'll use an example on or two >> People know that the data is, well, that's super fast, like a It's like a Ferrari. >> Yes, it's a fryer because you're able to do much more targeted essentially analysis on the data that you want to be searching over, right? And one way to look at this is, uh, no, Let's take a look at ah, Web access lock. Okay. And when we think about this and tables, we think that each line in the table represents, ah, particular entry from the access log. Right. And your columns represent what fields you've extracted. So for example, one the fields you might extract is thie HP status code. You know, Was it, um, a success or not? Right. Or you might have the your eye, or you might have the user agent of the incoming web request. Okay. Now, if you're not using a commoner database approach to execute a quarry where you're trying to count the number of non two hundreds that you've your Web server has responded with, you'd have to load in all the data for this >> table, right? >> And that's just its overkill in a commoner database. Essentially, what you do is you organize your data such that each column essentially has saved as a separate file. So if I'm doing a search where I just want to count the number of non two hundreds. I just have to read in these bites. And when your main bottleneck, it's sloshing bites in and out of Main Ram. This just gives you orders of magnitude better performance. And we've just built this optimize engine that does essentially this at its core and doesn't really well, really fast leveraging commoner database technology. >> So it lowers the overhead. You have to love the whole table in. That's going to take time. Clearing the table is going to take time. That seems to be the update. That's exactly right. Awesome, right? Okay. All right, Jeff. So you're the director of product marketing. So you got a genius pool of co founders here? Scaler. Been there, done that ball have successful track records as tech entrepreneurs, Not their first rodeo, making it all work. Getting it packaged for customers is the challenge that you guys have you been successful at it? What does it all mean? >> Yeah, it essentially means helping them explore and discover their data a lot more effectively than they happen before, you know, With applications and infrastructure becoming much more complex, much more distributed, our engineering customers are finding it increasingly difficult to find answers And so all of this technology that we've built is specifically designed to help him do that at much greater speed, Much greater ease, much more affordably and at scale. We always like to say we're fast, easy, affordable, at scale. >> You know, I noticed in getting to know you guys and interviewing people around around company. The tagline built by engineers for engineers is interesting. One. You guys are all super nerdy and geeky, so you get attacked and you take pride in the tech in the code. But also, your buyers are also engineers because they're dealing with cloud Native Wholenother Dev ops, level of scale where they love scale people in that market love infrastructures code. This is kind of the ethos of that market, but speed scale is what they live for, and that's their competitive advantage in most cases. How do you hit that point there? What's the alignment with the customers on scale and speed? >> Yeah, you know, with the couple of things that Stephen had mentioned, you know, the columnar database on DH, he mentioned cloud native. We like to refer to that as massively parallel or true multi tendency in the cloud those 11 two things give us really to key advantages when it comes to speed. So speed on in just that goes back to what Steven was talking about with the column. In our database, we're not having a weight to build the index so weakening unjust orders of magnitude faster than traditional solutions. So whereas a conventional solution might taking minutes even up to hours to ingest large sets of data, we can literally do it in seconds. It's the data's available immediately for used in research. One of our customers, in fact, that I'm thinking of down Australia actually uses our live tail because it actually works and as they push code out to production that can actually monitor what happens and see if the changes are impacting anything positively or negatively >> and speed two truths, a tagline the marking people came up with, which is cool. I love that kind of our fallouts. We have to get the content out there and get that let the people decide. But in your business, ingestion is critical. Getting the ingestion to value time frame nailed down is table stakes. People engineers want to test stuff. It doesn't work out of the box we ingest and they don't see value. They're not gonna kind of be within next levels. Kind of a psychology of the customer. >> Yeah, You know, when you're pushing code, you know, on an hourly basis, sometimes even minutes now, the last thing you want to do is wait for your data to analyse it, especially when a problem occurs. When a problem occurs and it's impacting a customer or impacting your overall business. You immediately go into firefighting mode, and you just can't wait to have that data become available so that speed to ingest becomes critical. You don't want to wait. The other aspect on the speed topic is B to search. So we talked about the types of searches that are calling. Our database affords us a couple that, within massively parallel and true multi tendency approach, basically means that you could do very, very ad hoc searches extremely quickly. You don't have to bill the keyword index. You don't have to have two, even build a query or learn how to build queries on DH, then run and then wait for it. And maybe in the meantime, wait to get a coffee or something like that. >> I mean, we grew up in Google search. Everyone who's exactly the Web knows what searches and discoveries kind the industry word in discovering navigation. But one of the things about searches about that made Google say Greg was relevance. You guys seem to have that same ethos around data discover, ability, speed and relevance. Talk about the relevance piece, because I think that, to me is what is everyone's trying to figure out as more data comes in? You mentioned some of the advantages Steven around, you know, complexity around data types. You know, Maur data types are coming on, so Relevance sees, is what everyone's chasing. >> So one of >> the things that I think we are very good at is helping people discover what is relevant. There are solutions out there. In fact, there's a lot of solutions out there that will focus on summarizing data, letting you easily monitor with a set of metrics, or even trace a single transaction from point A to point B through a set of services. Those are great for telling you that there is a problem or that problem exist. Maybe in this one service, this one server. But where we really shine is understanding why something has happened. Why a problem has occurred. And the ability to explore and discover through your data is what helps us get to that relevancy. >> Ameren meeting Larry and Sergey back into 1998. And you know, from day one it's fine. What you looking for him? And they did their thing. So I want to just quickly have you guys explain it. I think one thing that also has come up love to get your take on it, guys, is multi tendency urine in the clouds to get a lot of scale. We're out of resource talk about the debt. Why multi tendency is an important piece and what does that specifically mean? But the customer visa be potentially competitive solutions. And what do you guys bring for the tables? That seems to be an important discussion Point >> sure know. And it is one of the key piece of our architecture. I mean, when we talk about being designed for the cloud, this is a central part of that right? When you look at our competitors, for the most part, a lot of them have taken existing open the source off the shelf technologies and kind of taking that and shoved it into this, you know, square hole of, you know, let's run in the cloud, right? And so they're building. These SAS services were essentially they pretend like everyone's got access to a lot. Resource is but under the covers there, sitting there, spinning up thes open source solutions. Instances for each of the customers each of these instances are on ly provisioned with enough ramsi pew for that customer's needs, right? And so heaven forbid you try to issue more crews than you normally do or try to use Mohr you know, storage than you normally do, because your instance will just be capped out, right? Um, and also it's kind of inefficient in that when your users aren't issue inquiries, those CPU and RAM researchers are just sitting there idle instead, what we've done is we've built a system where we essentially have a big pool of resource is we have a big pool of CPU, a big pool of ram, a big pool of disc. Everyone comes in, get access to that, so it doesn't matter what customer you are. Your queries get full access to all these si pues that we have run around right? And that's that's the core of multi tendency is that we're able to not provision for just one look for each individual customer. But we have a big pool of resource is that everyone gets the >> land that's gonna hit the availability question on. And it's also have a side effect for all those app developers who want to build a I and stuff used data and build these micro services systems. >> They're going to get >> the benefit because you have that closed loop. Are you fly? Will, if you will. >> Yeah, yeah, the fight could just add the multi tendency really gives us a lot of economies of scale, both from, you know, the over provisioning and the ability to really effectively use resources. We also have the ability to pass those savings on to our customers. So there's that affordability piece that I think is extremely important. Find answers, this architectural force that >> Stephen I want to ask you because, you know, I know the devil's work pretty well. People are they're hard core, you know. They build their own stuff. They don't want us, have a vendor. Kuo. I can do this myself. There's always comes up there. But this use cases here. You guys seem to be doing well in that environment again. Engineering led solution, which I think gives you guys a great advantage. But what's the How do you handle the objection when you hear someone say, Well, I could do it. Just go do it myself. >> What I always like to point at is, yes, you can up to a decree, right? We often hear people that use open source technologies like elk. They can get that running and they can run it up to a certain scale like a you know, tens of gigabytes per day of logs. They're fine, right? But with those technologies, once it goes above a certain scale, it just becomes a lot more difficult to run. It's one those classic things you know, getting 50% of the way. There is easy getting 80% of the way. There is a lot harder. Getting 100% is almost impossible, right? And you, as whatever company that that that you're doing whatever product you're building, do you really want to spend your engineer? Resource is pushing through that curve, getting 80%. 100% of kind of good, a great solution. No, what we always pitches like Look, we've always solve these problems. These hard problems for this problem, too may come and leverage our technology. You don't have to spend your engineering capital on that. >> And then the people who are doing that scale that you guys provide, they want, they need those engineering resource is somewhere else. So I have to ask, you just basically followed question. Which is how does the customer know whether they have a non scaleable for scaleable solution? Because some of these SAS services air masquerading as scaleable solutions. >> No, they are. I mean, we we actually encourage our customers when they're in the pre sale stage to benchmark against us. We have ah customer right now that sending us terabytes of data per day as a trial just to show that we can meet the scale that they need. We encourage those same customers to go off and ask the other competitors to do that. And, you know, the proof is in the pudding. >> And how's the results look good? Yeah. So bring on the ingest Yes, that's that's That's the sales pitch. Yes, guys, thanks so much for sharing the inside. Even. Appreciate it, Jeff. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. I'm John for the Cube. Here for a special innovation Days scales >> headquarters in the heart of >> Silicon Valley's sent Matteo California. Thanks for watching.