>> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeffrey here with the cue, we're having acute conversation that are probably out. The studio's a little bit of a break in the conference schedule, which means we're gonna have a little bit more intimate conversations outside of the context of a show we're really excited to have. Our next guest is running $1,000,000,000 company evaluation that been added for almost 10 years. Cloud first from the beginning, way ahead of the curve. And I think the curves probably kind of catching up to him in terms of really thinking about security in a cloud based way. It's J. Charger. He's the founder and CEO of Ze Scaler. J Welcome. Thank you, Jeff. So we've had a few of your associates on, but we've never had you on. So a great to have you on the Cube >> appreciate the opportunity. >> Absolutely. So you guys from the get go really took a cloud native approach security when everyone is building appliances and shipping appliances and a beautiful fronts and flashing lights and everyone's neighborhood appliances. You took a very different tact explain kind of your thinking when you founded the company. >> So all the companies I had done. I looked for a fuss to move her advantage. So if you are first mover, then you got significant advantage. A lot of others. So look at 2008 we were goingto Internet for a whole range of service is lots of information sitting there from weather to news and all the other stuff right now on Cloud Applications. Point of view sales force was doing very well. Net Suite was doing well, and I have been using sales force in that suite and all of my start up since the year 2001. Okay, when each of them was under 10,000,000 in sales. So my notion was simple. Will more and more information sit on the Internet? Answer was yes. If sales force the nets weed is so good, why won't other applications move? The cloud answer was yes. So if that's the case, why should security appliances sit in the data? Security should sit in the cloud as well. So with that simple notion, I said, if I start a new company, no legacy boxes to what he bought, you start a clean slate, clean architecture designed for the cloud. What we like to call. Born in the cloud for a cloud. That's what I did. What >> great foresight. I mean trying in 2008 if tha the enterprise Adoption of cloud I mean sales was really was the first application to drive that. I mean, I just think poor 80 p gets no credit for being really the earliest cloud that they weren't really a solution right there. That's the service provider. But sales force really kind of cracked the enterprise, not four. Trust with SAS application wasn't even turn back back then. So So, taking a cloud approach to security. Very different strategy than an appliance. And, you know, credit to you for thinking about you know, you could no longer build the wall in the moat anymore. Creon and Internet world. Yeah. >> So my no show, no simple. The old world off security Waas What you just mentioned castle and moat. I am safe in my castle. But when people wanted to go out to call it greener pastures, right, you needed to build a drawbridge. And that's the kind of drawbridge these appliances bills. And then if you really want to be outside for business and all other reasons you're not coming in right? So notion of Castle and Motors, No good. So we said, Let's give it up. So let's get away from the notion that I must secure my network on which users and applications are sitting. I really need to make sure the right user has access to write application or service, which may be on the Internet, which may be on a public cloud, which may be a sass application like Salesforce. Or it may be the data center. So we really thought very differently, Right? Network security will become irrelevant. Internet will become your corporate network, and we connect the right user to write application, Right? Very logical. It took us a while to evangelize and convince a bunch of customers, right. But as G and Nestle and Seaman's off, the Wolf jumped on it because they love the technology. We got fair amount of momentum, and then lots of other enterprises came along >> right, right. It's so interesting that nobody ever really talked about the Internet, has an application delivery platform back in the day, right? It was just it was Bbn. And then we had a few pictures. Thank you Netscape, but really to think of the Internet as a way to deliver application and an enterprise applications with great foresight that you had there. >> Yes. So I think we built >> on the foresight off sales force in that suite and other information sources on the great. I >> came from security side off it. I built a number of companies that build and sold appliances, right. But it was obvious that in the new world, security will become a service. So think of cloud computing. People get surprised about cloud computing being big. It's natural. It's a utility service. If I'm in the business on manufacturing veg, it's a B and C. Gray computing is not my business. If just like I plug into the wall socket, get electricity right, I should be able to turn on some device and terminal and access abdication, sitting somewhere right and managed by someone right and all. So we re needed good connectivity over the Internet to do that. As that has matured over the past 10 years, as devices have become more capable and mobile, it's a natural way to go to cloud computing, and for us to do cloud security was a very natural >> threat. Right. So then you use right place right time, right. So then you picked up on a couple These other tremendous trends that that that ah cloud centric application really take advantage of first is mobile. Next is you know, B Bring your own global right B y o d. And then this this funky little thing called Shadow I T. Which Amazon enabled by having a data center of the swipe of a credit card. Your application, your technology. This works great with all those various kind of access methodologies. Still consistently right >> now. And that is because the traditional security vendors so called network security vendors but protecting the network they assumed that you sat in an office on the Net for great. Only if you're outside. You came back to the network through vpn, right? We assume that Forget the network. Ah, user sitting in the office or at home or coffee shop airport has to get to some destination over some network. That's not What about securing the net for Let's have a policy and security. It says Whether you are on a PC auto mobile phone, you're simply connecting through our security check post. Do what you want to go. So mobile and clothes for the natural. Two things mobile became the user cloud became the destination, and Internet became the connector off the two. And we became the policy check post in the middle. >> So what? So what do you do in terms of your security application? Are you looking at, you know, Mac addresses? Are you looking at multi factor authentication? Cause I would assume if you're not guarding the network per se, you're really must be all about the identity and the rules that go along with that identity. >> It's a good question, so user needs to get to certain applications, and service is so you put them into buckets. First is external service is external means that a company doesn't need to management, and that is either open Internet, which could be Google Search could be Facebook lengthen and type of stuff. Or it could be SAS applications that Salesforce offers on Microsoft Office E 65. So in that case, we want to make sure that been uses. Go to those sites. Nothing bad should comment. That means the malware stuff and nothing good chili con you confidential information. So we are inspecting traffic going in and out. So we are about inspecting the traffic, the packets, the packets to make sure this is not malicious. Okay, Now, for authentication, we use third party serves like Microsoft A D or Octagon. They tell us who the user is into what the group is. And based on that sitting in the traffic path were that I who enforce the policy so that is for external applications. Okay, the second part of the secular service, what we called the school a private access is to make sure that you can get to your internal applications. Either in your data center, all this sitting in a public cloud, such chance as your eight of us there were less. Whatever mouth we're more worried about is the right person getting to the right application and the other checks are different. There you are connecting the right parties, Okay. Unless worried about >> security, and then does it work with the existing, um, turn of the of, you know, the internal corporate systems. Who identified you? Integrate, I assume, with all those existing types of systems. >> Yes. So we look at the destination you did. Existing system could be sitting on in your data center or in the cloud. It doesn't really matter. We look at your data center as a destination. OK, we look at stuff sitting in Azure as a destiny. >> And then and then this new little twist. So obviously Salesforce's been very successfully referenced them a few times, and I just like to point to the new 60 story tower. If anyone ever questions whether people think Cloud of Secures, go look downtown at the new school. But there's a big new entrance in play on kind of the Enterprise corporate SAS side. And that's office 3 65 It's not that noone you are still relatively new. I'm just curious to get your perspective. You've been at this for 10 years? Almost, um, the impact of that application specifically to this evolution to really pure SAS base model, getting more and more of the enterprise software stack. >> So number one application in any enterprise is email >> before you gotta think that's gonna be your next started. We gotta fix today after another e >> mail calendar ring sharing files and what it used to sit in your data center and you had to buy deploy manage Sutter was with in a Microsoft exchange. So Microsoft said, Forget about you managing it. I've will manage your exchange, uh, with a new name, all 50 65 in the clout so you don't what he bought it and are You come to me and I'll take care off it. I think it's a brilliant move by Microsoft, and customers are ready to give up. The headaches are maintaining the boxes, the software and sordid and everything. Right now, when the biggest application moves the cloud, every CEO pays attention to it. So as Office God embraced the corporate network start to break. Now, why would that happen if you aren't in 50 cities and on the globe, your exchanges? Sitting in Chicago Data Center every employee from every city came to Chicago. Did know Microsoft Office. This is sun setting something. Why should every employee go to Chicago? That's the networks on and then try to go to cloud right? So they're back. Haul over traditional corporate network using Mpls technology very expensive, and then they go to them. Then they go to the Internet to go to office. If the 65 slow slow. No one likes it. Microsatellite. >> Get too damn slow >> speed. OnlyTest Fetal light. You can only go so far. It's >> not fast. If you're going around the world and you're waiting for something, I >> have to go to New York City to my data center so I could come to a local site in San Francisco. It is hard, right? Right, And that's what our traditional networks have done. That's what traditional security boxes down what Z's killer says. Don't worry about having two or three gateways to the Internet. You have as many gay tricks as your employees because every employee simply points to the Z's. Killers near this data center were the security stack. We take care of security inspection and policy, and you get to where you need to get to the fastest way. So Office 3 65 is a great catalyst for the skin. Asked customers of struggling with user experience and the traffic getting clogged on the traditional network. We go in and say, if you did local Internet breakout, you go direct, but you couldn't go direct without us because you need some security check personally. So we are the checkpost sitting 100 data centers around the globe and uses a happy customer. We are happy. >> So I was gonna be my next point. Begs the question, How many access points do you guys have just answered? You have hundreds. So you worked with local Coehlo. You got a short You got a short hop from your device into the sea scaler system and then you you're into your network. >> You know, we are deployed and 100 data center. These are generally cola is coming from leading vendors. Maybe it connects maybe level three tire cities of gold and the goal is to shorten the distance. I'll tell you two interesting anecdotes. I talked to a C i o last year. I said, How many employees do you have? He said 10,000 said, How many Internet gateways do you have? I tell you, it's safe. I he's a 10,000. I said What? He said. Every employee has a laptop and laptop goes with it. Employee goes and indirectly goes the Internet. It's a gate for you, Right? Then he said, Sorry, I'm Miss Booke. Every employee is a smartphone, and many have tablets to have 25,000 gate. So if you start thinking that way, trying to take all the traffic back to some security appliance is sitting in a data center or 10 branch offices, right? Makes no sense. So that's where we come in. And I had an interesting discussion with a very large consumer company out of Europe. I went to see them to one of her early customers. I >> met the >> head of security. I said, I'm here to understand how well these killers working. Since our security is so good, you must be loving it. He smiled, and he said, I love you security, but I love something more than your security. I said, Huh? What is that? He said. Imagine if the world had four airport hubs to connect through and you are a world traveler. You'll be missing, he said. I have 160,000 employees in hundreds, 30 countries. I have four Internet gateways with security appliance sitting there and everyone has to go to one of those four before they get out, right, so they were miserable. Now they are blogging on the Internet than entrant has become very fast, she said. As a C so I love it because security leaders are blamed for slowing you down in the name of security. Now I have made uses happy abroad in better security. So it's all wonderful. >> Hey, sounds like you're a virtual networking company that Trojan horsed in as a security company >> way. So let's put it this way. I >> mean, the value problem. Like I'm just I'm teasing you. But it's really interesting, you know, kind of twisted tale, >> so don't know you actually making a very good point. So So this is what happening Every c. I is talking about digital transformation through I t transmission Right now. If you start drilling down, what does that mean? Applications are moving in the cloud. So that's the application transformation going on because applications are no longer in your data center, which was the central gravity. If applications the move to the cloud, the network that designed to bring everything to the data center becomes irrelevant. It's no good. So no companies are transforming the data center bit. Sorry, they're transforming the network not to transform network so you could directly go to the application. The only thing that's holding you back is security, so we essentially built a new type of security, so we're bringing security transformation, which is needed. Do transform your network and transfer your application. Right? So that's why people customers who buy us is typically the head off application, head of security and head of networking. All three come together because transformation doesn't happen in isolation. Traditional security boxes are bought, typically by the security team only because they said, put a box here, you need to inspect the traffic. We go in and say the old world off ideas change. Let me help you transform to the New World. Why we call it cloned enabled enterprise, right? And that's what we come >> pretty interesting, too, when you think of the impact that not only are you leveraging us and security layer in this cloud and getting in the way of the phone traffic in the laptop traffic, but to as people migrate to Maura and Maur of these enterprise SAS APS, you're leveraging their security infrastructure, which is usually significantly bigger than any particular individual company can ever afford. >> That that's correct. So a point there so sales force an enterprise doesn't need to worry about protecting Salesforce, they need to make sure they can have a shortest path and the right user is getting so. We help as a policy jackboots in the middle, and also we make sure employees on downloading confidential customer information and sending out in Gmail to somebody else. But when applications moved to Azure or eight of us, you as an enterprise have to what he bought securing it if you expose them. If there is all to the Internet, then somebody can discover you. Somebody can do denial of service attack. So how do you handle that? So that's where we come in. We kind of say even 1,000,000,000 applications are in azure. I will give you the shortest bat with all the technology that you need to secure your internal >> happy. It's interesting because there's been recent breaches reported at Amazon, where the Emma's the eight of US customer didn't secure their own instance. Inside of eight of us, it wasn't an eight of US problems configuration problem >> or it could be the policy problem or possible. Somebody, for example, came into your data center over vpn, and once they're on you network, they can have what we call the lateral boom and they can go around to see what's out there. And they could get to applications. So we overcome all those security >> issues. Okay, so you've been at this for a while. 3 65 is a game changer and kind of accelerating as you look forward, Um, what excites you? What scares you? You know, where do you see kind of security world evolving? Obviously, you know, here in the news all the time that the attacks now or, you know, oftentimes nation states and you know it's it's the security challenges grown significantly higher than just the crazy hacker working out of his mom's basement. A CZ You see the evolution? You know what, What, what's kind of scary and what's exciting. >> I think the scary part is inertia. People kind of say this high done security than the castle and moat. That's still still because they feel like I can put my arms that only I can see the drawbridge. And I got to see the airplane right over the missing on that. So so one someone gets into your castle, you're in trouble, right? So in the new approach we advocate, don't worry about castles, and moats. The desk applications are out there somewhere. Your users are out there somewhere, right? And they just need to reach the right application. So we are focuses connecting the right people. Now, more and more devices coming in. We all here. But I owe tease out. The I. O. T. At the end of the day is a copier printer of video camera or some machine controls >> or a nuclear power plant. >> They all need to talk to something, something right if they got hijacked. You thinkyou nuclear power plant is sending information about its health to place a. But it's going to Ukraine, right? That's a problem. How do you make sure that the coyote controls in a plant are talking right parties? So we actually sit in the middle, are connecting the party. So that's another area for us. For potential, right? Looking at opportunity. >> So another big one like mobile and in 3 65 wasn't enough. Now you have I a t. >> It's a natural hanging out with you. So today, every day we see tens of thousands of cameras and copiers calling the Internet, and customers have no idea know why are they calling. Generally, there's no malicious motive. The vendor wanted to know if the toner is down or not. Are things are working fine, but they have no security control. R. C So does a demo from the Internet. He logs onto the camera, are the printer and copier and actually gets can show that information can be obtained. So those are some of the things we must control and protect. And you do it not by doing network security but a policy base access from a right device to alright, destiny. >> So, are you seeing an increase in the in the, you know, kind of machine machine? A tremendous amount of >> traffic machine to machine. So is io to traffic, and there's a machine to machine traffic. So when you have a bunch of applications said in our data center and you a bunch of applications sitting an azure eight of us, they need to talk. So lot of that traffic goes through Z Skinner. Okay, so we're long enforcing it, then you're an application that needs to go and get, say, some market pricing information from Internet. So the machine a sitting in your data center or in azure is calling someone out. There are some server to get that information. So we come in in between as a checkpost too. Have right connectivity. >> You're saying I proper. Same value difference. Very simple, but elegant. J I'm hanging out of the more you see now, the touch to nowhere to be at the right time. We're having fun. It's a great story, and and I really appreciate you taking a few minutes out of your day to stop. But I >> have a great team that makes it happen. >> That's a big piece of it. Well, and good leadership as well. Obviously >> great leaders in the company. >> All right, Thank you. J Child Reza, founder and CEO of Ze Scaler. Check it out. Thanks again for stopping by the Cube. I'm Jeff. Rick. Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time.