>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, It's the Cube. Covering AWS reInvent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, we're live here in Las Vegas in the Cube for live coverage of Amazon reInvent 2019. I'm John Furrier here instructing the singer from the noise. We have an amazing guest here, the founder of Aviatrix, I mean the CEO of Aviatrix, Steve Mullaney. Welcome to the Cube, thanks for comin' out. >> Thank you, good to see you. >> So first of all, I want to get into your experience, because I think it's notable having you on, because you've been in the industry for years, you're CEO of a multicloud software, a new kind of company. And this is what Andy Jassy was talking about on his Keynote today, that there's new kinds of companies, there's the born in the cloud, then there's enterprises re-borning in the cloud, my word. It's actually pivoting or re-platforming, re-imagining, whatever you want to call it. This is the new game, and if you're not on that side of the street you could be out of business. >> Steve: Yeah, no we're definitely seeing that and I think that's the thing that really got me excited about a year ago, was watching enterprises make that transition and say you know what, the center of gravity has gone from architectures inside the on-prem data center, is now moved to in the cloud. That shift has happened, people talked about it five years ago, but they didn't mean it. Now when you talk to enterprises, they are actually moving into the cloud, not just talking about it. And they're saying that is the center of gravity. And what's interesting to me was, I think even just the tone of Andy Jassy today and what he was talking about was once you define what your architecture is, you push it everywhere. So cloud 1.0 and 2.0 was really more about taking my architecture that was on-prem and pushing it into the cloud. So let me take virtual clients, a virtual router, basically my hardware router, package it up, put it on the cloud. That's not cloud native, it's cloud naive as we talk, right? So the change that's happened is now everybody realizes that the center of gravity is in the cloud, and you start seeing things like outposts. You see things like wavelength, you see things like TGW network Manager and things getting pushed out. The architecture of the cloud, now actually pushing out and extending out into on premises. >> John: Well, I want to give you a prop for a couple things. One is, for the folks watching, and read my post about my interview with Andy Jassy, I said two things in there that I borrowed or stole from Steve. One was cloud native without the T is cloud naive. And T for trust, T for IT, that was clever. And we're going to get into that-- >> Well I stole that from our sales guy Harold Hilderbrand, so you know what? >> John: Harold shout out to you. The second thing that I heard used when we were talking, we were talking about transitions vs. transformations. I think that is so on point because I think that encapsulates what Jassy's saying and what the industry is feeling right now. Transitions are for incremental improvements, transformations are for flipping the script. >> Steve: Right, right. >> This is really happening. Can you share what you mean by transitions vs. transformations? >> Yeah, so when you're in a computing model, there's been really three computing models. There's mainframe, which was 50's or 60's, to 80's or 90's, there's a 20-30 year period where IBM, DAC and so forth. That was the way you did enterprise computing. Then this PC client server thing came along, which was viewed as a toy at the beginning. For print sharing and work groups and people said are you kidding me? PCs, Servers are just PCs with two power supplies. I'm not running my mission critical infrastructure on PCs. But in the 90's with the internet, IP protocol, it's shifted. That became that transformation. So incumbents never win transformations. DEC, IBM and what happens is they're never in the conversation, because it's a transformation. Incumbents always win transitions, so for the last 20 to 30 years, Cisco, great, fantastic company. Very respected company. John Jamers will talk about transitions and talk about he would pat himself on the back, and how they would win market transitions. You're supposed to win a market transition as an incumbent, don't pat yourself on the back. The customers will force you to win the transition because they don't want another leader when you're in that same model. We are now entering that third transformation, this a model of computing change. This is from the top down business transformation Andy was talking about, which is true. You have companies redefining who they are, and they are leveraging cloud technologies to do that. This is not a cost thing, this is not a bottoms up technology thing that IT guys just say ah I want to learn something new. This is top down business transformation, existential threat to the survival of my company kind of stuff, and we need to move fast, and enterprises all move together. That's now happening and transformations, that confusion creates opportunities, because it moves so fast that the legacy vendors just don't have time. They have the innovators dilemma, they can't move to the new way quick enough. >> Yeah and one of the things I want to get your thoughts on and I want to get your reaction to is as we go to all the events in cloud, in this business, we see everything, the one tell sign, for me, is the security market. Security got unbuckled out of IT, in the board conversation. The jewels are on the table, the security, if you get hacked you're out of business. Talk about threats to the business, security is the leading indicator. What's going on in security? They're building their own staff, they're hiring developers in house. They are really changing the game on how they use technology. That's just in one area. You're talking about a complete reset, or reconsideration of everything that Jassy said. >> Everything, yeah, it's the business, right? Your applications are your business, right? And then all the infrastructure underneath that is there to service the applications and the data, that's why it's there. When you talk to different people, and you talk to customers like NBC and CBS, and content people, they're moving to the cloud. They're now having channels that are 100% hosted on AWS for the first time. Why are you doing that? I asked this of CBS. Because we need to move faster. Guess what, they're competing with Netflix and Amazon. They can't do it the old way, they're going to die. So they're moving all of their channels, hundreds of channels to be now cloud enabled. Because it allows them to deliver it in months as opposed to years. >> Your really interesting background, I'll share with the audience, you have a networking background, the old WellFleet became Bay Networks. Early employee at Cisco, then went to early employee at Palo Alto Networks security company. CEO Of Nicira, which is a big pioneer in software-defined networking. Which, at the time, evolved into the crown jewels of AVMWare. >> Yep, in a sense. >> You would say I would agree with that. And now you're on Aviatrix where it's got a multi-cloud abstraction, so you're kind of riding this new wave. So the question I have for you is, I coined the term being reborn in the cloud. Not born in the cloud. People who are born in the cloud, clean sheet of paper, they can scale up. But an enterprise has got to transform. Has to become reborn with cloud architecture. >> Steve: Yes, yes. >> This is a fundamental, almost look in the mirror moment as an enterprise executive, saying are we being reborn? >> Yes. >> How do companies do that? >> So we have a number of companies, enterprise companies, that are 30 year old, 40 year old enterprise software companies that, honestly, were left for dead. Where people thought, they weren't SaaS. They missed out on the whole Benny Hoff SaaS movement and they were on-prem. They had all the features, all the functionality, but they didn't have the delivery model of SaaS. They were hurting, they were going to die. People left them for dead. Now what they are doing is they've reborn themselves, in the cloud. They are pushing themselves in the cloud. Informatic, Variant, Epsolon, Eluysian, Teradata. We've got tens of these companies, that are, have reinvented themselves and now they're actually doing really, really, well. Because they had the functionality that they've always had, but now they have the delivery mechanism. There not SaaS actually, and the customers like that. Because I get my own three or four VPCs, it's my own network, it's not multi-tenant. It's hosted within AWS and now they're just migrating as fast as they can, all of their on-prem applications of customers into AWS and other clouds. >> John: All right, so I want to ask you about multi-cloud. Jassy didn't use the word multi-cloud, the critics are tweeting away on that. But, of course he's going to say multi-cloud, he's the cloud. He's the one cloud, he wants to be. >> Yeah. >> Multi-cloud is a reality. He did point out in my interview, and I think he might have mentioned on stage, that people are picking up primary and secondary. And then it's not 50/50 it's 70/30, 90/10. Whatever the ratio is then just pick one. Amazon gets picked a lot for the leader. What's your vision and how do you see the multi-cloud playing out? As people start becoming more cloud operations based. >> My view, and people, we are in the first pitch in the first inning of this cloud and people say AWS is a 40 billion dollar run rate, how can that be? Because the money has always been and always will be with large enterprise. They are now just starting to move into the cloud. There's trillions of dollars of spend that's coming into public cloud. So, first off, it's very beginning, early days. Second thing is AWS has done incredibly well with the developers and the born in the cloud people. Enterprises, not so much. And, you know what? Microsoft kind of understands enterprises. So I think we're going to be set up for a little bit of battle here, and it's, by no means, over. So I think AWS recognizes that and every single enterprise that I have talked to says I may not be a third, a third, a third across all three of the big clouds. Maybe I'll have one primary, and I think Andy Jassy says that, which I kind of agree with. I think people will have a primary, but I don't think everyone's primary is going to be AWS. I think there's going to be a lot of Azure primaries. And even some Google primaries, probably more, and I think it will be a two horse race for that. But then they're going to use the other clouds because, I was just talking to a customer today. The signature recognition software runs better in Azure. They're an AWS customer, they're moving to Azure for this. Why, because that app runs better in Azure for some reason. I think people, particularly enterprises, will make that decision. >> All right, so I want to get your take on two things, first of all I agree with you. >> I think that's what will happen. >> I would agree with that, so let's just take this scenario. Amazon wins on capabilities, they're constantly adding new stuff everyday. So, if you're a builder, it's the ultimate tool shed for technology. Azure isn't there yet, they're trying to catch up as fast as they can, they're pedaling as fast as they can. But there's a build out level and then there's a consumption level. So there's having all that capability, but also the customer's consumption has to be addressed. Solutions packaging, ease of use. So delivery mechanisms for infrastructure in the cloud. The consumption, how I buy and use, is now a consideration. Or consumer experience or whatever you want to call it. What's your take on those two dynamics? >> I think you'll see, from AWS, I don't know this, but it has to be, because this is what enterprises want. The phrase 'Go Build' is great for an early adopter. You go tell that to an enterprise, here's the power tools, go build your house. They go, I'm going to cut my hand off. I don't want to go build anything, I want to consume. So I think you're going to see them changing their tune a little bit, because the markets evolved, and I think it's caught them a little bit by surprise as well. I think Microsoft, because they know the enterprise, they won't say 'Go Build'. They're going to say 'Come Consume'. And I think that's going to resonate with enterprises. Because, at the end of the day, they don't really want to do that. Now, either way, I think it's going to be a battle. That's where Aviatrix comes into play. We help enterprises, no matter what cloud you're on, across multiple clouds or one, actually consume services. So we abstract away all the details of those native services. >> Well, I would say, if you got to transform, you have to do some building, but it would have to be the easy kit. >> Steve: Yeah, I want the easy button, I mean. >> John: Paint by numbers. >> Yeah. >> John: Self-installing house. So I got your take on that. So you got a lot of buzz in the analyst community around a phrase I've heard you say. >> Steve: Which one is that? >> There's no more food left in the data center. >> Oh, okay, yeah. >> John: And the animals are leaving the data center. >> And that's right. >> John: Food being the supplier. >> The on-prem data center. >> John: The on-prem are money and the animals being the vendors. So if there's no food in the data center, what's happening? What does that mean? >> Steve: They're goin' through, the center of gravity has moved into the cloud, that's where the food is. So you're going to see a lot of cloud naive legacy vendors put cloud on things, right? It's the same crap they had, they're just going to put cloud on it because, like I said, what do animals do when they run out of food? They go find where the food is, right? If people get mad when I say that because data centers are not going away. I know that data centers aren't goin' away, but they're going to get quarantined like mainframes got quarantined. It's going to be an expense area, it's not going to be an investment. And what do you do with an expense? You quarantine it, you cap it, you hopefully keep it flat, or your reduce it. But, sure, the data centers are going to be around for a long time but all their market caps are based on big growth. And, where people are confused is, for the last five years, everybody said we are moving to cloud. But they were talking. So if you look over the last five years, all the people selling the on-prem have done very well. So, clearly, this whole cloud thing was a hoax, right? Because, for five years, you said it was coming and it hasn't, so therefore I'm good. The problem is you're good right up until you're not good and that just happened. >> And that's happening now in your opinion? >> That's happening now and your seeing it in peoples results, publicly. And they're washing it over. They're saying it's a temporary problem. I compensated the field wrong. Bullshit, I know what's going on and, you know what? There's going to be no hiding from that. >> Yeah, and the expansion's going to be in the cloud where the developers are building apps that drive top line. >> Steve: That's where all the investment's going. >> Okay so, there's a couple of major areas developing with the cloud dynamic. The cloud scale and now data tsunami and data scale. Diversity of data and all those things are happening. You can see that in the announcements. Large scale data, the data layer network, data ops, data as code, infrastructure as code, large scale, all that's great. But networking still becomes the fundamental problem. Jassy talked about it on stage. Hops to the network, they got this wavelength thing for 5G. That's really cool. All the kind of important things that are going on, is going on at the network. Same concepts being applied to a new architecture. >> Yeah. >> Your thoughts? >> Exactly right. One of our customers, I forget who it was, said a phrase to me that I love. Again I steal everything John. >> John: I steal from you. >> Yeah, he said the network comes first. I go that is perfect, I'm going to use that. In fact, actually it's on our website. The network comes first. Because when you're building up that infrastructure, in all of computing. Compute network and storage, what's the most important? Network by far. Why, because if the network isn't architected correctly, you're screwed for life. So you've got to get that right. So that's what everybody is doing right now. Is they look and they say strategically, we're going to go build a city. First thing I got to go and do is get the basic infrastructure, and the network comes first. That is the core of my basic infrastructure. If you get that wrong, life is bad for a long long time. That's what's going on right now. >> Okay, so you've had a great career, you got the CEO of Aviatrix going on. You're also looking at startups, you advise, been on boards. What's your view of the startup landscape if you're advising startups to go at this market, this trillion dollar enterprise market, the money's being thrown in the air and the money's in the middle of the table. How do they attack that money, how do they attack the marketplace? >> First thing, number one, you got to be cloud native. You have got to understand the basic native constructs of Azure, Google, AWS. You cannot be just this thing that plops on top of it, you got to be able to programmatically, program that infrastructure and leverage it. Because all of the hundreds of billions of dollars being spent, you want to use that, right. You don't want to have to go recreate that. So that, to me, is number one. And then number two, I think there's a lot of opportunity in the cloud. Everybody thinks AWS will do anything and everything you need in networking. That is a bunch of crap. There is so many limitations that they have for enterprises. Like hundreds of limitations. The beautiful thing with networking is you push one area, and ten other problems happen. So we've got 20 years of things to do to make networking better. So that's what we're going to do. But also at the edges, right? I would say where the interesting thing happens, is the interface between on-prem and cloud. So BGP, IOS, Cisco IOS, all the things that, because it's kind of like the virtual, the physical interface. It's the cloud to on-prem interface. There's still going to be an interface. >> John: You still need plumbing. >> Then there's still going to be an interface. That interface is where a lot of the complexity and friction comes. So whether it's IoT, edge computing type things, or things that we do of bringing that cloud in a seamless, kind of simple, automated way. Bringing on the on-prem into the cloud world in a very seamless way. >> John: So, I'm got to ask you a final question. You came out of retirement. You had the good life on boards, golfing, clipping coupons, going to the beach every day. Now you're the CEO of a company going grinding it out again. A lot of older ageism coming back into the biz. A lot of people who have been in the systems business. >> Steve: Oh yeah. >> A lot of people coming back into the game. Why did you come back, what was the main driver for you to come back out of retirement? >> 'Cause this is a thousand foot wave and it's ten times bigger than what I saw in client server. It's the biggest opportunity of value creation and innovation that I have ever seen and ever will see in my life. What's also fun is every single one of the customers that we are dealing with are all old guys like me. They're all 40s, 50s, 60s, it's the IT guys from 30 years ago that everyone left for dead. Everyone thought, oh it's the developer-led infrastructure, the developers are going to do everything, uh uh. This is IT, IT is coming back and saying thank you very much developer, we got it from here. This is serious business now. This isn't fun and games anymore. We're taking over. >> But it's serious IT, it's reborn IT, it's not the old IT. >> Not the old IT, they want to do it. It's the old guys. But they're enlightened guys and gals and they want to do it in the cloud way, with the simplicity and the automation. But yet I want to bring the functionality, visibility, and control that I had on-prem. I don't want to do it the old way. I want to do it the new way. Guy today I was just talking to a customer who said, I don't want to build my Dad's network. But he's 50 years old, he's my age, you know. And so, but I think that's the key, they're enlightened networking people, yet they have the 30 years of history of understanding the subtleties of BGP and networking. >> This was our chance to hear you in the Cube, we had such a great time, our team's awesome. It's our seventh year doing reInvent, eight years total of this conference. What's your take of Jassy's Keynote this year? Is this an inflection point? Is this one of those moments where you're going to look back and say this was a time that Amazon made a change, or gassed it extra hard? >> I think, my take is, look every year he says amazing things and every year is another step function. But I think this year will go down as the year that people will look back a couple of years from now and say that was the point, that it got serious, like really serious in terms of big enterprises coming in and I think it's going to send a message to the other public clouds, and a message to all the other enterprises that say hey, maybe I'm falling behind. When you see Goldman Sachs and you see banks are laggers to the cloud. They're not early adopters, they're laggers. You see that and you go well, wait a minute, maybe I'm missing out. I think it's going to actually accelerate because he's seeing it, you know. So I think it will go down as a big inflection point. >> John: Steve Mullaney, President and CEO of Aviatrix, who's going to, you'll be on Thursday to go over some of the stuff you guys do as a company. Appreciate the commentary, and great experience riding the wave. How high was that wave? >> A thousand foot. >> Thousand foot wave. We've been riding this wave for years. What a great time it is to be here at reInvent. Keep coverage, I'm John Furrier. We will be back with more coverage after this short break. Here in the Cube Intel Studios sponsored by Intel. Thanks to Intel for your generous contributions to making the Cube and supporting our mission. We really appreciate it. Thanks for watching, we've got the more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019 brought to you by UI path. >>We're back in Las Vegas. UI path forward three. You're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. Bobby Patrick is here. He's the COO of UI path. Welcome. Hi Dave. Good to see it to be here. Wow. Great to have the cube here again. Right? Q loves these hot shows like this. I mean this is, you've said Gardner hasn't done the fastest growing software segment you've seen in the data that we share from ETR. You guys are off the chart in terms of net score. It's happening. I hanging onto the rocket ship. How's it feel? Well it's crazy. I mean it's great. You all have seen some of the growth along the way too, right? I mean we had our first forward event less than two years ago and you know about 500 plus plus non UI path and people then go year later. It was Miami USY. >>There's probably a lot. Cube I think was Miami right yet and a, and that was a great event, but that was more in the 13 1400 range. This one's almost 3000 and the most amazing part about it was we had 8% attrition from the registrations. Yeah. That's never seen that we're averaging 18% of 20% for all of our, most of our events worldwide. But 8% the commitment is unbelievable. Even 18 to to 20% is very good. I mean normally you'll see 25 to sometimes as high as 50% yeah. It just underscores the heat. >> Well I think what's also great, other stats that you might find interesting. So over 50% of the attendees here are exec. Our senior executives, like for the first time we actually had S you know, C level executive CHRs and CEOs on stage. Right. You could feel the interest level. Now of course we want RPA developers at events too, right? >>But this show really does speak, I think to the bigger value propositions and the bigger business transformation opportunity from RPA. And I mean, you've come so far where no one knew RPA two years ago to the CIO of Morgan Stanley on stage, just warning raving about it. That's, we've come a long way in two years. >> Well, and I saw a lot of the banks here hovering around, you know, knocking on your door so they, they know they are like heat seeking missiles, you know, so, but the growth has been amazing. I mean I think ARR in 2017 was what, 25 million at this time. Uh, at the end of 17 it was 43 and 43 and 25 and now you're at 12 times higher now 1212 X solve X growth, which is the fastest growing software company. I think in that we know from one to 100 we were, we did that in 21 months and all that. >>And we had banks who now we're not really counting anymore and we're kind of, you know, now focus more on customer expansion. Even though we hit 5,000 customers, which we started the year at 2050 ish. We just crossed 5,000. I mean, so the number of customers is great, but there's no question. This conference is focused on scaling, helping them grow at enterprise wide with, with, with RPA. So I think our focus will be in to shift a bit, you know, to really customer expansion. Uh, and that's a lot of what this announcements, the product announcements were about a lot of what the theme here is about. We had four dozen customers on, on stage, you know, the Uber's of the world, the Amazons of the world. It's all about how they've been scaling. So that's the story now. Well, you know, we do a lot of these events and I go back to some of the, uh, when the cube first started, companies like Tablo, Dallas Blunck great service. >>Now, I mean, these you can, and when you talk to customers, first of all, it's easy to get customers to come talk about RPA. Yeah. And they're, they're all saying the same thing. I mean, Jeanne younger said she's never been more excited in her career from security benefit. But the thing is, Bobby, it's, I feel like they're, they're really just getting started. Yeah. I mean most of the use cases that you see are again, automating mundane task. We had one which was the American fidelity, which is a really bringing in AI. Right. But they're really just getting started. It's like one to 3% penetration. So what are your thoughts on that to kind of land and expand, if you will? I think, you know, look, last year we announced our vision of a robot for every person. At that point we had SNBC on stage and they were the one behind it. >>And they are an amazing story. Now we have a dozen or so that are onstage talking about a robot for every person like st and others. And so, but that, that, that's a pretty, pretty, pretty bold vision I think. Look, I think it's important to look at it both ways. Um, there's huge gold and applying RPA to solve real problems. There's a big opportunity, enterprise wide, no question. We've got that. But I look New York Foundling was on stage yesterday. We have New York Foundling is a 150 year old associate. Our charity in New York focused on child welfare, started by three fishers of charity. They focused on infants. And anyway, it's an amazing firm. Just the passion that New York family had on stage with Daniel yesterday was amazing. But what they flew here because for once they found a technology that actually makes a huge difference for them and what in their mission. >>So their first RPA operation was they have 850 clinicians every week. They spend four hours a week moving their contact, uh, a new contact data associate with child child issues from system to system to spreadsheet and paper to system, right? They use RPA and they now say for a 200,000 hours a year. But more importantly, those clinicians spend those four hours every week with children not moving. So I'm still taking, I think Daniel had a bit of a tear in his eye, hearing them talk about it on stage, but I'm still taken by, by the, by the sheer massive opportunity for RPA in, in a particular to solve some really amazing things. Now on a mass scale, a company can drive, you know, 10, 15, 20% productivity by every employee having a robot. Yes, that's true on a mass scale. They can completely transform their business, your transform customer experience, transform the workplace on a mass scale. >>And that, that is, that's a sea level GFC level goal and that's a big deal. But I love the stories that are very real. Um, and, and I think those are important to still do plug some great tech for good story. Look, tech gives, you know, the whole Facebook stuff and the fake news got beat up and it had Benny come out recently say, Hey, it's, it's not just about increasing the value to shareholders, you know, it's about tech for good and doing other things affecting lifestyle's life changing. And Michael Dell is another one. Now I've, I've, I've kind of said tongue in cheek, you know, show me the CEO misses is four quarters in a row and see if that holds up. But nonetheless, you love to see successful companies giving back. It seems to be, it's part of your, well look I've been part of hardware companies and I met you all through a few of them and others they have good noble causes but it was hard to really connect the dots. >>Yes there CPS underneath a number of these things. But I think judging by the emotional connection that these customers have on stage, right and these are the Walmarts and Uber's and others in the world judging by the employee and job satisfaction that they talk about the benefits there. I just, I my career, I have not seen that kind of real direct impact from you know, from B2B software for example on the lives of people both everyday at work but also just solving the solving, you know, help accelerate human achievement. Right. And so many amazing ways. We had the CEO of the U N I T shared services group on stage yesterday and they have a real challenge with, you know, with the growth of refugees worldwide and he would express them and they can't hit keep up. They don't have the funding, which is, you know, with everybody and, and Trump and others trying to hold back money. >>But they had this massive charter for of good, the only way they get there is through digital. The new CEO, the new head of the U N is a technology engineer. He came in and said, the way we solve this is with templates, with technology. And they decided, they said on stage yesterday that RPA and RPA has the path to AI and the greater, the greater new technologies and that's how they're going to do it. And it's just a, it's a really, it's, I think it's, it feels really great. You know, it's funny too, one of the things we've been talking about this week is people might be somewhat surprised that there's so much head room left for automation because the boy, 50 years of tech, Kevin, we automated everything. That's the other, but, and Daniel put forth the premise last night, it actually, technology is created more process problems or inefficiencies. >>So it's almost like tech has created this new problem. Can tech get us out of the problem? Well, essentially you think about all the applications we use in our lives, right? Um, you know, although people do have, you know, a Salesforce stack and sometimes in this SAP, the reality is they have a mix of a bunch of systems and then we add Slack to it and we add other tools and we add all the tools alone, have some great value. But from a process perspective of how we work everyday, right? How a business user might work at a call center, they have to interact then. And the reality is they're often interacting with old systems too because moving them is not easy, right? So now you've got old systems, new systems and, and really the only way to do that is to put a layer on top of the systems of engagement and the systems of record, right? >>A layer on top that's easy to actually build an application that goes between all of these different, these different applications, outlook, Excel, legacy systems and salesforce.com and so on and so on and, and build an app that solves a real problem, have it have outcomes quickly. And this is why, Dave, we unveiled the vision here that we believe that automation is the application. And when you begin to think about I could solve a problem now without requiring a bunch of it engineers who already are maxed out, right? Uh, I can solve a problem that can directly impact the businesses or directly impact customers. And I can do that on top of these old technologies by just dragging and dropping and using a designer tool like studio or studio X in a business user can do that. That's, that's a game changer. I think what's amazing is when you go to talk to a CIO who says, I've been automating for 20 years, you know, take up the ROI. >>Once they realize this is different, the light bulb goes off. We call it the automation first mindset. A light bulb goes off and you realize, okay, this is a very different whole different way of creating value for, for an organization. I think about how people weigh the way that people work today. You're constantly context switching. You're in different systems. Like you said, Slack, you're getting texts and you want to be responsive. You want to be real time. I know Jeff Frick who was the GM of the cube has got two giant screens right on his desk. I myself, I always have 1520 tabs open if I go, Oh you got so many tabs on my, yeah. Cause I'm constantly context switching, pulling things out of email, going back and forth and so and so. I'm starting to grok this notion of the automation is the app. >>At first I thought, okay, it's the killer app, but it's not about stitching things together with through API APIs. It's really about bringing an automation perspective across the organization. We heard it from Pepsi yesterday. Yeah, right. Sort of the fabric, the automation fabric throughout the organization. Now that's aspirational for most companies today, but that really is the vision. Well, I think you had Layla from Coca-Cola also on, right. And her V their vision there and they actually took the CDO role of the CIO and put them together. And they're realizing now that that transformation is driven by this new way of thinking. Yeah, I think, you know, look, we introduced a whole set of new brand new products and capabilities around scaling around helping build these applications quicker. I, I think, you know, fast forward one year from now, the, you know, the vision we outlined will be very obvious the way people interact with, you know, via UI path to build applications, assault come, the speed to the operate will be transformational and, and so, you know, and you see this conference hear me walk around. >>I mean you saw last year in the year before you see the year before, but it's, it's a whole, the speed at which we're evolving here, I think it's unprecedented. And so I'll talk a little bit about the market for has Crigler killer was awesome this morning. He really knows his stuff now. Last year I saw some data from him and said the market by 2020 4 billion, and I said, no way. It's going to be much larger than that. Gonna be 10 billion by 2020 I did Dave Volante fork, Becca napkin by old IDC day forecast. Now what he, what he showed today is data. It actually was 10 billion by 2020 because he was including services, the services, which is what I was including in my number as well, but the of it, which was so good for him now, but the only thing is he had this kind of linear growth and that's not how these rocket ship Marcus grow. >>They're more like an old guy for an S curve. You're going to get some steep part now, so I'd love to see like a longer term forecast because that it feels like that's how this is going to evolve. Right now it's like you've seated the base and you can just feel the momentum building and then I would expect you're going to see massive steep sort of exponential growth. Steeper. There may be, you know, nonlinear because that's how these markets go >> to come from the expansion potential, right? And none of our customers are more than 1% audit automated from an RPA perspective. So that shows you the massive opportunity. But back to the market site, data size, Craig and I and the other analysts, we talk often about this. I think the Tam views are very low and you'll look at our market share, let's just get some real data out there, right? >>Our market share in 2017 was 5% let's use Craig's linear data for now. You know, our market share this year is over 20% our market share applying, and I don't want to give the exact numbers as you don't provide guidance anymore, is substantially we're substantially gaining share now. I believe that's the reality of the market. I think because we know blue prisms numbers, we go four times faster than the every quarter automation. The world won't share their numbers. But you know, I can make some guesses, but either way I think, you know, I think we're gaining share on them significantly. I think, you know, Craig's not gonna want us to be 50% of the market two years, he's just not. And so he's going to have to figure out how to identify how to think. That brought more broadly about, about that market trend. He talked about it on stage today about how does he calculate the AI impact and the other pieces now the process mining now that now that we are integrating process mining into RPA, right? >>It's strategic component of that. How does that also involve the market? So I think you have both the expansion and the plot product portfolio, which drives it. And then you have the fact that customers are going to add more automations at faster pace and more robots and that's where the expansion really kicks in. And we often say, you know, look as a, as a, as a, as a company that, you know, one day we'll be public company, our ARR numbers. Very important. We do openly transparently share that. But you know, the other big metric will be, you know, dollar based net expansion rate that shows really how customers are expanding. I think that, I know it, our numbers, we haven't shared it yet. I know all the SAS companies, the top 10 I can tell you, you know we're higher than all of them. >>The market projections are low. And I think he knows it well. >> Speaking of Tam, and when we, I saw this with, with service now, now service now the core was it right? So the, the ROI was not as obvious with, with, with you guys, you're touching business process. And so, so in David Flory are way, way back, did an analysis of service and now he said, wow, the Tam is way being way under counted by everybody. That wall street analyst Gardner, it feels like the same here because there are so many adjacencies and just talk to the customers and you're seeing that the Tam could be enormous, much bigger than the whatever 16 billion a Daniel show, the other Danielson tangles, the guy's balls. He said, Oh that's 16 billion. That's you. I pass this data. And you know, we laugh, but I'm, I'm like listening. Say I wonder if he's serious cause this guy thinks big. >>I mean, who would've thought that he'd be at this point by now? And you're just getting started? Well, I think, you know, one thing I think is, you know, we're, we're, you know, we were a little bit kind of over a little less humble when we talked about things like valuation over the last few years. We were trying to show this market's real, you know, we want to now focus more on outcomes and things get a little less from around those numbers. And I think that shows the evolution of a company's maturity, um, that we, I think we're going through right now. Uh, you know, the outcomes of, you know, Walmart on stage saying, you know, their first robot that was, this was, this was two years ago, delivered 360,000 hours of capacity for them in, in, in, in, in HR, right? That, you know, I think those, that's where we're gonna be focused because the reality is if we can deliver these big outcomes and continue them and we can go company-wide deliver on the robot for every, every, every, every person, then you know, the numbers follow along with it. >>Well we saw some M and a this week as well, which again leads me to the larger Tam cause we had PD on, um, with Rudy and you can start to see how, okay now we're going to actually move into that vision that the guy from PepsiCo laid out this, this fabric of this automation fabric across the organization. So M and a is, is a part of that as well. That starts to open up new Tam. Opportunity does. And I think, you know, a process mind is a great example of a market that is pretty well known in Europe, not so much in the U S um, and there are really only a few players in that, in that market today. Look, we're going to do what we did in RPA. We're going to do the same thing. You're process mining. We're going to just say anything we're doing in it, not as democratization, you'll our strategy will be to go mass market with these technologies, make it very easy for accessibility for every single person in the case of process mining, every business analyst to be able to mind their processes for them and, and ultimately that flows through to drive faster implementations and then faster, faster outcomes. >>I think our approach, again, our approach to the business users, our approach to democratization, um, you know it's very different than our competitors. A lot of these low code companies, I won't name a number cause I don't remember our partners here at our conference. They're IT-focused their services heavy and, and you know, their growth rates I'll be at okay are 30% year over year in this market. That shouldn't be the case at all. I mean we're a 200 plus a year. We are still and we've got big numbers and we have a whole different approach to the market. I don't think people have figured it out yet, Dave. Exactly, exactly. The strategy behind which is, which is when you have business users, subject matter experts and citizen developers that can access our technology and build automations quickly and deliver value proof for their company. And you do that in mass scale. >>Right. And then you will now allow with our apps for your end users, I get a call center to engage with a robot as part of their daily operation that none of the other it vendors who are all kind of conventional thinking and that's not, our models are very different, which I think shows in our numbers and and, and the growth rates. Yeah. Well you bet on simplicity early on. In fact, when you join you iPad, you challenged me so you have some of your Wiki bond analysts go out. I remember head download our stuff and then try to download the competitors and they'll tell us, you know how easy it as well we were able to download UI path. We, we built some simple automations. We couldn't get ahold of the other other, other companies products we tried. We were told we'll go to the reseller or how much did you have to spend and okay so you bet on simplicity, which was interesting because Daniel last night kind of admitted, look, he tracked the audience. >>He said thank you for taking a chance on us because frankly a couple of years ago this wasn't fully baked right and and so, so I want to talk about last, the last topic is sort of one of the things Craig talked about was consolidation and I've been saying that all week and said this, this market is going to consolidate. You guys are a leader now you've got to get escape velocity cause the leader makes a lot of money and becomes, gets big. The number two does. Okay, number three man, everybody else and the big guys are starting to jump in as well. You saw SAP, you know, makes an announcement and you guys are specialists and so your thoughts on hitting escape velocity, I wouldn't say you're quite there yet. I want to see more on the ecosystem. There's maybe, who knows, maybe there's an IPO coming. I've predicted that there is, but your thoughts on achieving escape velocity and some of the metrics around there, whether it's customer adoption penetration, what are your thoughts? >>Yeah, I mean we definitely don't have a timetable on an IPO, but we have investors, public investors and VCs that at some point are going to want, this is the reality of how, of how it works. Right. Um, you know, I think the, uh, you know, I think the numbers to focus right now are on around, you know, customer outcomes. I think the ecosystem is a good one. Right? You know, we have, I'd say the biggest ecosystem for us to date has been the SAP ecosystem. When we look at our advisory board members, for others, that's really where, where the action is. Supply chain management, ERP, you know, certainly CRM and others, we don't have a view that, so our competitors have, but we have chosen not to take money from our, from ecosystem companies because we don't, our customers here are building processes, all the automation across ecosystems. >>Right? So you know, we don't want to go bet on say just one like Salesforce or Workday. We want to help them across all the ecosystem now. So I think it's a little bit of a different strategy there. Look, I think the interesting thing is the SAP is the world. They bought a small company in France called contexture. They're trying to do this themselves. Microsoft, Microsoft didn't in Mark Benioff and Salesforce are asked on every earnings call now what are you doing for RPA? So they've got pressure. So maybe they invest in one of our competitors or maybe they, you'll take flow in Microsoft and expanded. I think we can't move fast enough because you know, I don't know if Microsoft has, I mean they're a great sponsor by the way. So I don't want to only be careful we swept with what I say. But you know, strategically speaking, these larger companies operate in 18 months, 12 1824 months kind of planning cycles. >>If he did that, he will never keep up with us. There's no one at any of our traditional large enterprise software companies that ever would have bet that we would come out and say that the best way to build applications right to solve problems will be through RPA. Either there'll be a layer on top of all their technologies that makes it easier than ever for business users to build applications and solve problems, that's going to scare them to death. Why? Because you don't have to move all your legacy systems anymore. Yes, you've got tons of databases, but guess what? Don't worry about it. Leave him alone. Stop spending money on ridiculous upgrades right now. Just build a new layer and I'm telling you I there. As they figured this out, they're going to keep looking back and say, Oh my God, why didn't we know? >>Why did we know there's it looked I hopefully we could all partner. We're going to try to go down that route, but there's something much bigger going on here and they haven't figured it out. Well, the SAP data is very interesting to me that I'm starting to connect the dots. I just did a piece on my breaking analysis and SAP, they thank you. They, they've acquired 31 companies over the last nine years, right? And they've not bit the bullet on integration the way Oracle had to with fusion. Right? And so as a result, there's this, they say throw everything into HANA. It's a memory that's not going to work from an integration standpoint, right? Automation is actually a way to connect, you know, the glue across all those disparate systems, right? And so that makes a lot of sense that you're having success inside SAP and there's no reason that can't continue. >>Why there's, you know, there's a number of major kind of trends we've outlined here. One of, uh, we call human in the loop. And you know, today, you know, when each, when an unattended robot could actually stop a process and instead of sending the exception to a, an it person who monitoring, say, orchestrator actually go to an inbox, a task and box of that business user in a call center or wherever, and that robot can go do something else because it's so, so efficient and productive. But once that human has to solve that problem, right, that robot or a robot will take that back on and keep going. This human and robot interaction, it doesn't exist today and we know we're rolling that out in our UI path apps. I think you know that that's kind of mind blowing and then when you add a, I can't go too far into our roadmap and strategy or when you added the app programming layer and you add data science, that's a little bit of a hint into where we're going because we're open and transparent. >>Our data science connection, it's, it's this platform here, this kind of, I'd like to still call it all RPA. I think that that's a good thing, but the reality is this platform does Tam. What it can do is nothing like it was a year ago and it won't be like where it is today. A year from now you've got the tiger by the tail, Bobby, you got work to do, but congratulations on all the success. It's really been great to be able to document this and cover it, so thanks for coming on the cube. Thank you. All right. Thank you for watching everybody back with our next guest. Right after this short break, you're watching the cube live from UI path forward three from Bellagio in Vegas right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE! Covering IFS World Conference 2019. Brought to you by IFS. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with my cohost Paul Gillin. We're winding down day one of the IFS Conference, the World Conference here at the Hynes Auditorium in Boston. Paul Helms is here as the senior vice president of customer success at IFS, something that we've been talking about a lot, and Stefano Mattiello who's the senior vice president and the global head of consulting, also from IFS. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, Paul, let me start with you. So, kind of a loaded question. How do you define customer success? >> It's a question I get very often, and customer success, you can make out of it what you want to. The way IFS looks at it, it's not only me but IFS look at it is, how do we take our involvement into our customer's business outcomes beyond the go live. Okay, so, they buy software, they implement the software, they go live, and then what? So customer success is really looking into what is the quality of the relationship we have with our customers, and how deep and how integrated we are in that relationship. Understanding what success means to our customers because it's different for every customer. And then how do we back this up with the quality of service to really build that success and mine the value that is in the solution to the benefit of our customers. So it's this long-term relationship driven by business outcomes, that is customer success. So, historically in the software business success was defined as we're live. You know, service now bakes a cake, hey, success. That's not how you guys are defining success. >> No, I mean, it goes way beyond the go live. In fact, I mean we're talking about success as actually starting even before the implementation even starts, which is capturing what success means to that particular customer. In your business situation, what does success mean? Feed that in, we obviously want to get the customer live as quickly as possible, it's the time to value, and that talks to ROI. But that's just the beginning of the game, that's not the end of the game. So it's about what are we doing after the go live phase, what are the interventions that we're running in aid, delivering on that promise that we made right up front that says what does success mean, let's make sure that we deliver on that. But then more importantly is how do we kind of maximize that success. As the market dynamics are changing, as there's more pressure coming on your business, your business is changing, right? So how do we evolve your business model because success today might have a particular shape and a particular color, but in nine months or 12 months time it'll change, it'll morph into something else, so it has a different definition. So it's about that lifelong engagement, you know, how do we keep redefining success? >> So what stage does this success discussion begin? >> It's very much as I said in the early stages of what we would call the pre-sale cycle. So when we first start talking to a customer, is we really want to understand what are your business imperatives. All right, let's try to capture that. It's fundamental that we're not just selling technology for the sake of technology, but we're there to drive a business agenda. So it's really as early as we can do it, I think that's where we can capture and maximize the delivery of that success. What does it really look like? So, the sooner we do it, the better. >> And also looping that actually back into what do we see in our customers and the way they use the software and the way their business is changing in their environment, so to say, and bringing this back all the way into the product, okay. And how do we shape the roadmap of the product using the insights into how customers are being successful using our products. So, we are not there yet, but that is the ultimate goal, that we will build better products based on our customer success insights, and then turning this into a mature cycle to really drive and maximize customer value over their lifecycle. So it goes beyond just the service, it really is all the way back into the product, how that adds value, how do we deliver this, and all the way back again. >> And I always argue, I mean, unless you're sort of a nonprofit or, you know, if you're a hospital, you want to save lives, but if you're a for-profit company you want to increase revenue, you want to cut costs, you want to drop money to the bottom line, you want to rip the face off your competitors, and you want to do some good for your community. So I mean, you can take all these other factors whether it's better customer satisfaction, better productivity, et cetera, and it usually boils down to those things. Is that fair? >> Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much, you know, those are your business imperatives, yeah, that's what success looks like to you. But it's an iterative process, right. So what I was saying earlier is it doesn't start and stop there. I mean, things will change and the approach we want to take is let's not just do it once, let's keep revisiting this because once you've captured those objectives and you're actually on top of those, or you think you're on top of those, then as we improve the product, as the market dynamics change, then you'll have different priorities. So let's keep revisiting. And the way we're looking at it is a project is no longer just the start and a stop, single-time event, it's an iterative process. >> Are you seeing priorities change, or maybe you don't have enough data to speak to this, but we saw 160 CEOs recently signed a petition, or a proclamation, if you will, that it's not all just about shareholders, there are multiple stakeholders they have. Are you seeing priorities with customers change over time? >> I think when, the conversations are changing, so when we talk about 10 years ago probably you talk about optimization, it was purely for getting more bang for your buck. So, how do I take cost out? How do I become more efficient, more effective? The conversation is changing now to how do I become more sustainable? You still need to optimize. You still need to deliver better and operate better. But it's not only for profit, it's also on how do I become more sustainable, how do I leave an environment for the youngsters in my company, that they still have a company by the time that they are at our age. (laughs) >> Benny often is very outspoken about that. >> Yes, he is. >> As you know, I'm just waiting for the day when the CEO misses three or four quarters in a row and says, "Yeah, but we're doing all this "great tech for good." But I do agree. Especially with millennials coming into the workforce, they want to see that their companies are doing good, they're giving back to the community and paying it forward. Question on swim lanes, you got I think 400 partners. What are the swim lanes between the services that you provide and your partners provide, and what's the overlap there? >> So this is the transition that we're in at the moment, is that historically IFS was trying to be an all things to all customers, right, so we'll do everything from A to Z. What we're doing now is we're saying, well, let us focus on what we do best which is our product. That's really what we do best. So what we want to do is we want to try and help the ecosystem, we want to help our partners in driving those efficiencies and actually implement as quickly as possible and drive value for our customers. So what we're doing is we're now moving into a position where we say, let us rather drive a value assurance discussion with our customers, let's safeguard projects, so we're working in a symbiotic relationship with partners, we're not competing with them, right. So we know what we do, we know what they do. >> So you have some new services, IFS Select, IFS Success, IFS tools and methodologies. So, there's knowledge transfer then between you guys and your partners, is that right? How does that work? I mean, this takes investment, it's got to be more than just a press release obviously. >> Yeah, yeah. We want our partners to know everything that we know, and we're a software company, we're not a services company, and we don't want to compete in the services space. We want to use services to enable software, and more software, because the faster we grow our software business the better for us as a company 'cause that is our core business. So there's no competition with partners. We want to share what we know. We put in tools and methodologies. We standardize knowledge. We share knowledge, we bring this out. We put our partners through the same training we put our own people, there's no secret little room back there where we give them the real stuff, (laughs) our own people. So we are very open with knowledge and experience and sharing them, and helping them enabling this. So we will work with a partner to say, okay, the first ones that you do you might not be that confident so let's be there in a more intense way, and as you go along and you build your confidence and you build your competence we can take a step back. And therefore we can still ensure quality for our customers while scaling through the ecosystem. So this is, you know, it sounds strange, but we really do not want to do the services business. We want to do the services business that we have to do, not as much as we can do. >> And I mean, just picking up on that as well, is it's not only about enablement, we're actually actively sharing our tools and methodologies with our partners. So whatever we use ourselves we're making available to our partners. And that's fundamental, right? That's exactly what Paul says, is we want the partners to do exactly what we're doing, to the same level of quality and the same standard. >> And we have a stated vision that says that the customer experience should not differ whether they use IFS as their partner or they use a service provider as partner in their journey because it's about the experience around the product, not around the service, that should make the difference for them. >> I think you have a dog fooding booth here. I call it dog fooding, I know that's kind of a pejorative, but you know, your champagne, drink your own champagne, but, you know, IFS runs IFS. It's sort of a big theme here. >> Right behind us. >> So you guys have implemented, and this is what you're talking about, the tools and methodologies you use for your own business. What have you seen in your own business? What kind of business impact has IFS had on your business? (guests laugh) >> So we implemented our own, as you say, we drank our own champagne within six months. We came from an environment which was quite disparate, historically speaking. Many different systems in different locations and regions, and we brought this and consolidated this into a global template. This was hard. Harder than we probably thought it was going to be. Not technology-wise. Technology-wise it was, yeah, technology is what technology is, but from a change management point of view, and from a impact to the business, and to people's daily operations it was bigger than you thought. So that's a learning, we've captured this in our lessons learned. We have made some changes and brought in some new tools and methodologies and insights that we will share with our partners. But if you would now look at afterwards we're live, the impact it has on our business, it's transformational. It is giving us insights which we never had before. Given the efficiencies which we never had before. It opens up new things that we consider as doing as business and operating as a business which we never had before. So, yes, was it hard? Yeah, it was hard, that's not-- >> What were you transitioning from? >> All sorts. (laughs) >> So we had a-- >> One of everything? >> Yeah, I mean we literally had a cluster of independent systems that had all been modified, and I think this is another point, is that the historical approach to a lot of ERP installations is tell me what you want and I'll develop it for you, right? And even-- >> A lot of snowflakes. >> Yeah, exactly, and even if it means that we're actually going to build a square wheel, which is not, you know, not the best model, but that's what you want, so we're going to give you that. Whereas the approach we're taking now is, you know what, we've got enough capability and standard functionality from all of the years of experience that we have, go with kind of best, you know, best-in-breed approach. It's more than enough than what you need and it'll give you that ability to switch it on and go live and run with it immediately, rather than customizing it and spending three years and trying to get that square wheel, which is actually not what you really need. >> That seems to be the karma at the company, we've been hearing that all day about the value of not customizing. >> Correct, exactly. >> And the product itself and our solutions are very rich and we take this one step further and say, well actually, how can we get our customers to adopt quicker depending on the industry that they are in because we have to accept that the way you do a certain thing in one industry is not exactly the same as its best practice in another industry, for very good reason. So there's differentiation on how processes live in different industries. So, Stefano and team has been very busy building what we call the accelerators, and how do we bring those industry best practices together in two things, one is as a quick start. So, you know, here it is just use it and run with it and you're up and running in a very quick way. So that's our knowledge and experience that we share and we make it available through our partners as well. And secondly, it will allow us to keep that up to date as sort of the reference architecture for your industry to, as you go forward, you might, you know, be going one way with your implementation, we say this is industry best practice, and how do you derive value between the gap by adopting the gap between what is standard best practice and what you have in your solution. So, driving that value over the lifecycle as part of the success engagement. >> So you guys are senior executives at a global company, you talk to a lot of customers, so I wonder if I could get your take on sort of the macro from a spending standpoint. I mean, we see in the US, we're in the 10th year of a boom cycle. The IPO market here is kind of, the window's closed, I think at least for now, and Wall Street's rewarding growth, they don't care if you make profits. You know, things like cash flow, EBITDA, (laughs) they don't seem to matter. And so that's been going on now for the better part of a decade. When you look at Europe, it looks like it's softening, it's kind of overbanked, financial services, and no, you're exposed in financial services, certainly not in a big way. But, so what are you seeing across the globe just in terms of spending on tech and what does it mean for your business? I mean, you're a share gainer, you're taking share, so you should be somewhat insulated from any kind of flattening or softening, even though the softening is not precipitous. But I'm just wondering if you guys could give us your kind of anecdotal take on what's going on in the marketplace? >> You answer that? >> No, go for it. >> So I think, two things that we see happening. We see many more new customers coming on with us. So you saw this morning as well in the keynote, more than 50% of our revenue comes from net new customers to IFS. That is amazing. There's not another similar company that can claim that. We're outgrowing the market by more than three times the average. But that's one part of the story, the install base is the other part of the story. So the install base, what we see there is they are spending on the digital transformation, on getting ahead in their game. Tech is disrupting a lot of industries and it's enabling a lot of disruptors to enter markets that previously, and industries that previously were closed to them. In financial services you see that a lot, but also in the other industries, we see these young and upcoming disruptors coming. So, we see a lot of people and companies investing into the digital transformation, opening up new channels, opening up new markets that were not there before, but now with tech, and the tech that is available, is there. At the same time they need to create space in an investment, you know, nobody has unlimited resources. So they're looking at optimizing what they have so that they can free up some cash and capital to invest into some of these disruptive things. So it's really an exciting time to be part of the industry and really exciting time to be part of a challenging and a challenger company like IFS that really goes out and focuses on its industries, focuses on its tech stack where it matters. We're not trying to be everything to all men all of the time. We're really going after what we know we are good at and I think the numbers show for themselves that's-- >> Half of the transactions are new adoption of IFS, right? That's enormous. >> Paul Gillin: Capital license revenue. >> Paul Helms: That's from our license revenue. >> Okay, yeah. I mean unless there's a huge proportion leaving your install base which it doesn't sound like that's happening, that if people are just even spending flat with you guys it's a growth story. >> It's very, I mean, my opinion is it's all about choice. Customers want choice. They want an alternative, right? And what I think we're doing right, well at least, what I like to think we're doing right, is that we focused on business outcomes. That's really what it's about. We're talking their language, talking to their agenda, and we're giving them an alternative. >> And we're not forcing them to go into the cloud. We give them the option to go into the cloud if they want to, but they can also stay on-premise. We don't force them to go subscription model. The option is there, but they can also choose full perpetual. So it's really about giving them choice, talking to the customer business outcomes, and engaging in a really customer-centric and customer-intimate way along their journey. And it's working. >> So given the success you're having in, specifically in Europe, how do you feel about your ability to export that success to North America? >> Well, we're doing that already, I mean it's happening, and we're seeing growth globally, right? Yes, I mean, in certain regions it's accentuated and larger but there definitely is, it's a global phenomenon, we are seeing that. And I think a lot of it is also coming back to our focus. And I think you made the point to this, we're not trying to be all things to all people. Where we focus, that's where we really excel. So, the kind of answer to your question is less about the geography, is it more about the industry, is that what you want to focus on regardless of where they are? That's the approach we're taking. >> And also the capabilities we're bringing into the field. So there's management, has been a very healthy growth area for us. You saw this morning, again, we just announced the acquisition of Astea that will further enhance our capabilities in this place, they're really a leader in what they're doing. So that level of focus makes us win in our industry and our marketplace. >> I mean, that looks like a good acquisition. That starts to lever a relatively small company but, and you picked it up from what I can tell pretty cheaply, but the impact to your business is significant. So, that's good, congratulations. All right, gents, I know we're probably keeping you from important customer dinners and touring Boston, so thanks very much for coming on theCUBE, It was great to have you, we really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for having us. >> All right, thank you for watching. Paul, it's great working with you, and that's a wrap here. >> As always, Dave. >> From IFS World in Boston, and this is theCUBE. Go to siliconangle.com for all the news. Go to thecube.net for all these videos. And we'll see you next time. (futuristic music)

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube, The leader and live tech coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with David Dante. We got a pretty cool guests coming up next, guys, you may have seen him here on the Q before. He has back Matt Harris, the head of I T for Mercedes AMG, Petronas Motor Sport. Matt, Welcome back. >> Often a >> way got the car over there with excitement. One of the coolest sports I've ever become involved with. Formula One is this incredible mix of technology strategy. All these crazy things you guys that Mercedes have been partners, customers a cure for about what? 45 years? >> 2015. As a customer, we became partners in 2016. >> I wonder if they like to save Mercedes AMG Petunias Motor Sport has had five consecutive years of both constructors championships driver's championships. You're a great position on both for 2019. It was a little bit of a history about the product that you put out on truck every other week and how pure storage is a facilitator of that. >> Yeah, okay, so it's an interest in a story for those that are interested in Formula One, because what you see on the track looks the same. But realistically, every time he goes out, the guarantee will be different. That level of difference could be a simple wing change or configuration, always based on data that we're learning from during a race again. But every week we also have a different car dependent on the track we're going to. So we have two different worlds that basically were to rate on a minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day at the track. But in the factory, that could be the same sort of it oration. But it could also be into weekly or monthly or year for a car. So all of that is based on data. So everything we do is that businesses revolves around data. We never make a change to the car without me now to back it up with empirical knowledge. Even if the driver turns around and tells us they feel something called, they believe something, we will always make sure we have data to back up that decision, So access to data is critical. Compute performance whether it's high performance, compute for our safety, for instance, whether it's for you as an end user, access to data is critical across everything that we do is time critical Time is our currency really as a business if we slow down your job? Generally, that probably means that you've got less time to make the correct decision. Or maybe you have to turn into a guess or a hunch, which that's never a good place to be in our sport. >> No, I would think not. >> I've I recall, from our conversation last year their rules that say, How many people you can have in your entourage like 60. I think it was yes, and at the time I think you said you got, like, 15 Allocated to data. Is that ratio kind of still holding? I >> still exactly the same in our tracks. On environment, they're still the same in the factory. We have more than that, depending on how many people on what time of day, what day of the week. So on a Friday race day, practice day, we can have a minimum. There'll be 30 people in our race support room will be looking at data along with those other 15. But you can have the whole Aargh department or design department or logistics. Whoever could still be looking at data from the track real time, so we can have as many as 4 to 500 looking at data if they want to. And if that's the right thing going on earlier in the season, you generally get more people looking As the season goes on. It's probably more aargh focused, maybe mechanically if we got something new, or maybe the engine division again in a completely separate building in the U. K 40 miles apart, they've got another set of people that will be looking and trolling through data riel time from the but looking really at the power unit rather than the chassis side. >> And you're generating, like roughly half a terabyte a weekend on a race weekend. Is that still about the same? Or is that growing a car >> perspective? It's just under half a terabyte, but we produce up to another half a terabyte of other supporting data with that GPS data, weather data, video, audio, whatever it would be other information to help with the strategy side of things So we're around 77 50 to 1 terabyte for race weekend, >> and each car has about 300 sensors. I think when we spoke with you last year, or maybe you're half ago is about 200 so that's increasing in terms of all the data being captured every race weekend. But one of the things that I love that matter sizes, you know, we're idea at Mercedes is not that unlike I t at other groups who really rely on high performance systems. But you do put out a new product every two weeks and this really extreme range of conditions, your product is extremely expensive as pretty sexy. Like the portability factor. You have to set up a tea shop, have any 20 weekends a year and set it up in what, 36 hours and take it down in six. >> And a nine year old joke about the taking it down in six is a bit like a Benny Hill sketch. It's obviously choreographed and, well, well rehearsed, but we have all the same systems as any normal business would have the tracks. That environment is very different, though we don't have air conditioning in so all the IittIe equipment has to work at the natural ambient air temperature of the country. We're in this year. Believe it or not, Germany and hungry have been our biggest challenge. We've had for the last 43 to 4 years because they had 45 degree air ambient air temperature. So forget humidity for a minute, which is Another kettle of fish probably affects us a bit more, maybe, than the systems, but we're only chucking that air as fast as we can across the components. So we're not putting any cooling into what is probably around the tolerance of most I T systems. So we have to rely basically on air throughput to terminate. Keep kit. Cool. Now the benefit with pure is actually doesn't create any heat, either. There's no riel heat generation, so it's quite tolerant, which helps us get it doesn't create Maur, but the environment we put it into is quite special. But what we're doing is what any business would want to do. Access toe email file systems. What we're trying to do is give it in a performance fashion. People need to make a decision. So in qualifying, for instance, those 300 sensors. That information that we've got from the car, we've got minutes to make a decision based on data. If it takes you too long to get the data off, you can't then look at the data to make a decision. So we have to make sure data in just from the car and then basically multi access from everybody in the factory or the track side is performance enough to make a decision before the car goes back out again. Otherwise, we're wasting track time. >> So you've always had data in this business. Early days was all analog, and it obviously progressed and thinking about what you want to do, Going forward with data. What kind of information or capabilities don't you have? Where that technology in the future could address >> s so interesting. One is technology of the future. If you know what it is, let me know with what we know right now, I think a lot of it's gonna be about having the ability to have persistent storage. But actually the dynamic of the compute resource eso looking at things like kubernetes or anything like that to turn around and have dynamic resource spin up as and when required to do high performance computer calculations based on the data, maybe to start giving us some automated information, I'm gonna be careful of the M l A. I is for our businesses, it's not quite as simple as others because our senior management very technically capable, and they just see it as advanced statistical analysis. So unless you program, it is not gonna give you an answer. Now we've started to see some things this year were actually the computer is teaching us things we didn't ask it to. So we have got some areas where we're beginning to learn that. That's not necessarily the case now, but for us that access to data moving forward, it's probably gonna be compute. Combined with that underlying storage platform, there's going to be critical onstage. You you heard Robin people talking about the ability to have that always present storage layer with the right computer. That's something for us is going to be critical, because otherwise we're gonna waste money and have resource sat doing nothing. >> Is security >> an issue for you? I mean, it's an issue for everybody, but there isn't a game of honor because you got this, you know, little community that you guys trying to hack each other systems. >> So it's an interesting one inside the sport, Actually, no. Because a few years ago there was a very high profile case where data went between two teams and there was £100 million fine's exclusion from the sport for a season. So that's that's >> too big. You don't mess with that. >> But also, if you think of that from our perspective, we've got the Daimler star on here. We cannot afford to have any of that Brenda brand reputational rubbing off on Damon's. So that's a no no other teams I can't talk for. But we're all fairly sensible between ourselves. What will be interesting moving forward is what technologies air in our sport, but actually of the whether their motor manufacturers or not, is their technology in there that they're interested in. Maybe the battery technology from the power unit side of things is that the power unit itself. So are other things actually more interesting to those other >> places. It legal for you, you know, by the rules of sports, a monitor, just data or captured data, whether it's visual, whatever from your competitors. Eso anything, >> this public? Yes, it's fair game. Okay, so we get given all the teams. Actually, we get a standard set of three or four different streams of information around GPS timing on some video feeds and audio feeds on their publicly consumable by the team's. When I say public for a second on those feeds, we can do what we like. You know that there for us to infer information, which we do a lot off, is what helps our strategy team to turn around and actually predict what we might or might not need to do as far as a pit stop or tire degradation. >> And that's where the human element must come into understanding the competent, like to football coaches who who know each other right? >> Well, yes. And now, if you think if you add to that the human element off Well, what happens if one team strategy person changes? Are they gonna make a different call based on the same data? Is their hunch different? Do they think they know better within a team? You can have that discussion. So what happens in another team where they're cars, not as performance so their mindset. Maybe they're thinking differently. Or maybe a team's got the most performance car of the moment and they think that they're going to do X. And we're like, Well, we're gonna do something different than to try and actually catch them out. So do we. Now don't do the normal thing. >> So let's hope >> Gamification I love it. >> Let's look at all. Make a prediction. 2019 is gonna be another Mercedes AMG way. So at the end of the season, all of the data that you have collected from the cars, all the sensors, all the weather data, GPS, et cetera how does pure facilitate in the off season the design of the 2020 car, for example, Where does where does things like computational fluid dynamics? >> Okay, so all of our production data is on pure, whether it's on a ray or blade somewhere, it's on pure storage across the site. So they're involved. Whether you're talking about design, whether you're talking about final element analysis for hyper a ll, the C f. D. Using high performance computer systems, everything some pure so from that point of view, is making sure we're using the right resource in the right place to get the best performance. Now, see if he's an interesting one because we're regulated by the F A a. About the amount of compute that weaken you. He's now. Because of that, you want it to be as efficient as you possibly can. It's not speed but the efficient use off CPU time. So if a CPU is waiting for data, that's wasted, Okay, so for us, it's trying to make sure that whole ecosystem is as efficient as we can. That's obviously an integral part of everything we do, so whether we're wind tunnel testing, whether we're in the dino, the simulators, but everything basically comes back to trying to understand and correlate the six or seven different places we generate data, trying to make sure that when there's a change in the simulator, we understand that change in the real world or in a diner or in safety. So all of that, what pure do is allow us to have that single place to go and look how I perform and always available. And for me, I don't have to have a story. Jasmine. Yeah, we've got a team of people that actually are thinking about that for us at Pure, You know, there is invested in us these days. Yeah, I walk around here, I'm very fortunate. I get to see all of the senior guys here and there. They are asking me what's going on and how's things with sequel Oracle Because they know exactly what we're doing and they're they're trying to say what's coming. So things like object engine Pierre So we've been talking to pure about using that over the coming months. But what? We're not having it at the moment. Go out and learn it. Actually, they coming in and they're telling us all about it. So they become a virtual extension to my team, which is just amazing. >> Yeah, far more efficient. You're able to focus on a much more things that drive value for the business. As we look at some of the things like the Evergreen business model. What were some of the big ah ha we hear is the right solution for us back in 2015. Is that >> so? Evergreen and love. Your stories were two things at the time that we're just incredible for us because love your storage was basically you could have an array and basically you could use it. And there was no commitment, no anything. But if you like that, you could keep it, obviously, paying for it. Ah, nde. When we did that in the factory, basically, within a week of being in there that the team were like, Whoa, hang on, that's going nowhere. So that was That was a nice, easy one. But Evergreen was an interesting one, which has only really, truly for me. I've always bought into it. But the last probably 18 months we've used it time and time and time again because the improvements with the speed of light x 90 coming envy Emmy drives. When we were looking at capacity, what we did was we turned round and said, Well, actually, we can buy more dense units in the next 90 so we're only buying the extra capacity, but we were getting new technology. So nations, all the innovation that you're putting into their products were getting it. So today, when they were talking about the memory based access, and if your things always sat there going, I can use that. Oh, and there's no there's no work for me, there's no effort. The only thing I gotta worry about is whether I've got capacity for that. Those modules to go in. So Evergreen has worked several times because I don't have to go back to the cap export and go. Could I have another x £1,000,000 please? Why? I need some more storage. Yeah, but you bought some of the other day. Yeah, well, that one. I need to get rid of it because I need a bigger one. And I don't have to do that. Now. I just go in. I'm telling them what the increases for which actually, they can choose Then if they want to increase, they know what the business benefit is rather than just I t has got to turn around and either replace it because of age or the new version doesn't support is not an uplift, not upgrade from the old. One >> I've seen was looking at some of your stats and the case study that's currently online on. Imagine these numbers have gone up 68% reduction in data center Rackspace and saving £100,000 a year and operating costs >> those that would have been probably two years ago. Ish roughly those figures. And the operating cost is a huge improvement for us. Cap Ex is probably the biggest one for me. They were moving forward with cost caps coming into Formula One. That type of thing is gonna be invaluable. Does not happen to do a forklift upgrade of your storage. Well, I wouldn't know what I would do if I had to upgrade what I now own from pure I can't even imagine what? I don't want to turn around town my bosses what that's >> gonna cost. Well, it sounds like you really attacked the op X side with R and D with pure r and D. I kind of like that shifting, you know, labor toe are Andy because you don't want to spend labour on managing storage a raise, make no sense for your business. Okay. What do you want? Pure toe spend? R and D are now, what problem can they saw for? You mean >> so racy is gonna help If I'm really honest, that's actually is gonna help fill a whole quite well for us because we weren't really sure what to put some of that less hot data we were like, Well, where we going to start to put this now? Because we were beginning to fill up the array and the blades. Actually, with a racy no, we can actually use that different class of storage actually, to keep it still online. Still be out to do some machine learning A. I in the future when that comes around. But actually I can now have Maur longevity out of my existing array and blades. So that's brilliant and coming, I think, having I need to be careful, I know some things that are coming. Uh, the active sinking array is brilliant, and we've been using that since it came out. Having that similar or same ability in Blade when it comes will be a very advantageous having those played enclosures. We've gone to multi chassis flash played over the last six weeks, so that for us is great. Once we can start to synchronize between those two, then that's ah, that's another big one for us, for resiliency, for fault, tolerance, but also workload movement. That thing I said about persistent stories, layer, I'm not gonna need to care where it is, and it will be worked out by the storage in the orchestration layer so it can have the storage in the computer in the right place. >> Wow. Great story, Matt, as always. And I think it's Pierre calls this the unfair advantage coming to life. Best of luck for the rest of the 2019 season. >> I'll take it. >> All right, We'll see you next time. >> Thank you. >> Keep before >> for David Dante. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Cure Accelerate in Austin, Texas.

>> Voice Over: Live from Washington, D.C. It's the Cube! Covering AWS Public Sector Summit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone welcome back to the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit here in Washington DC. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host John Furrier. We're joined by Kim Majerus. She is the leader, state and local government at AWS. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Thank you for having me, I'm excited my first time so. >> John: Welcome to the Cube. >> Welcome! >> I'm excited! >> Rebecca: Your first rodeo. I'm sure you'll be a natural. >> Thank you. >> Let's start by telling our viewers a little bit about what you do, and how heading up the state and local is different from the folks who work more with the federal government. >> Sure. So I've been with Amazon a little over a couple of years and having responsibility for state and local government has really opened up my eyes to the transformation that that space is moving to. So when I think about our opportunity, it's not just state and local government, but it's actually the gov tax that are supporting that transformation in traditional environments. Everyone asks that questions, what's the difference between a federal versus a state and local? And I attribute it to this way, programs are very important in a federal space but what I'm focused on is every single city, county, state has aspirations to do things the way they want to do things, of how they need to address their specialized market. What people need in New York City might feel and look a little bit different in a small town in my home state. So when you look at the differences it's exciting to have the opportunity to impact there. >> And one of the things that you inherited in the job is state and local governments also, and we've heard this on the Cube from many guests that have been on, they didn't have the big IT budgets. >> No. >> And so, things to move the needle on R&D and experiment, you know Andy Jassy talks about experimentation and learning through failure, a lot of them don't have the luxury. And this changing landscapes, different diversity environments. >> Yeah absolutely. It's doing more with less, and each state struggles with that. And when you take a look at the budget and where state budget goes, it's predominantly in the health provider instances. So they have the responsibility to serve their constituents and their health, so what's left? You're competing with budgets for teachers, firefighters, first responders of all sorts, so they have to be very frugal with what they do and they have to learn from one another. I think that is one of the nicest things that we see across the states and the cities. >> Tell me about the community aspect of it because one of the things we're seeing on the trend side is the wave that's coming, besides all the normal investments they've got to make, is internet of things and digitization. Whether it's cameras on utility poles, to how to deal with policies just like self-driving cars and Uber. All these things are going on, right? >> Yep. >> Massive change going on, and it's first generation problems. >> Absolutely. >> Net New right? So where's the money going to come from? Where's the solutions going to come from? >> Save to invest right? So they're taking a look at Net New technologies that allows them to actually re-invest those savings into what the community's asking for. People don't want to stand in lines to get their driver's license or a permit. We just had a customer meeting, they were talking about how the challenge between the connected community. If you're in a city, in a county, who do you go and talk to? I need a building permit, do I go to the city, do I go to the county? But I don't want to go. I want to be able to do it in a different way. That's the generational change and we're seeing that, even local to the D.C. area, when you take a look at Arlington county, they have the highest population of millennials. How they want to interact with government is so different than what they've seen in times past. >> So talk to me about what, so what what are the kinds of innovations that Arlington needs to be thinking about according to you, in terms of how to meet these citizens where they are and what they're accustomed to? >> Expectations, I mean take a look at, we walk outside the street you see birds sitting around there and you've got to be able to give them transportation that is accustomed to what they do every single day. They want to buy, they want to communicate and more importantly they want to their services when they look for it. They don't want to have to go to the buildings, they want to have to, they want to be able to actually access the information, find exactly where they need to go to grab that specific service. I mean long is the day that you would stand there are say, well I don't know which office to go to, send me. People want to look and everything's got to be available and accessible. >> I mean this is classic definition of what Andy Jassy and Theresa talk about. Removing all that undifferentiated heavy-lifting. >> Yep, barriers. >> All this red tape, and the lack of budget. All these things kind of create this environment. What are you guys doing to address that? How do you get people over the hump to saying, okay, it's okay to start this journey, here's some successes, is it get a couple wins under your belt first? What's the process? Take us through it and use (mumbles). >> I think this has been probably one of the most refreshing parts for me to be a part of AWS. It's really starting with, what problem are you trying to solve for? What is the biggest issue that you have? And we work backwards from their needs. And it's a very different approach than how others have worked with our customers, our state and local customers, because we're used to selling them this thing for this opportunity, whereas we take three steps backwards and say let's start from the beginning. What issues are you having? What're your constituents having? Was with a group of CIOs on Monday and we went through this whole process of, who are your customers? And they would've thought, well it's an agency here and it's an agency there, and what they soon realized is, those are my stakeholders, those are not my customers. So if we really look at it more of a product versus a project with the state and local executives, it's really changing their perspective on how they could actually have a full cycle of opportunity, not a project-based solution. So when you think about how a constituent wants to work through the government, or access it's services, it will look and feel differently if you're thinking about the full life-cycle of it, not the activity. >> You know one thing I want to ask you that came up in a couple conversations earlier, and then what the key note was. The old days was if you worked for the government, it was slow, why keep the effort if you can't achieve the objective? I'm going to give up, people get indifferent, they abandon their initiatives. Now Andy and you guys are talking about the idea that you can get to the value proposition earlier. >> Yes. >> So, even though you can work backwards, which I appreciate, love the working backwards concept, but even more reality for the customer in public and local and state is like, they now see visibility into light at the end of the tunnel. So there's changing the game on what's gettable, what's attainable, which is aspirational. >> It might feel aspirational for those who have not embraced the art of what's possible, and I think one of the things that we've seen recently in another state. They had a workforce that liked to do what they did, as Andy said, "Touch the tin." And when you think about that whole concept, you never touch the tin. So now let's take a look at your workforce, how do we make being in government the way to, as Andy close it, to make the biggest impact for your local community. So some states are saying, what we've done is we still need the resources we have, but the resources that are moving up the stack and providing more of an engagement of difference, those are the ones that are taking those two pizza team type of opportunities and saying what are we going to do to change the way they interact? >> With real impact. >> With real impact. >> Andy also talked about real problems that could be solved, and he didn't really kind of say federal or any kind of category, he just kind of laid it out there generally. And this is what people care about, that work for state, local and federal. They actually want to solve problems so there are a lot of problems out there. What are you seeing at the state and local level that are on the top problem statements that you're seeing where Cloud is going to help them? >> A great example would be, when you think about all the siloed organizations within our community care. You're unable to track any one record, and a record could be an individual or an organization. So what they're doing is they're moving all those disparate data silos into an opportunity say let's dedupe-- how many constituents do we have? What type of services do they need? How do we become proactive? So when you take a look at someone who's moved into the community and their health record comes in, what're the services that they need? Because right now they have to go find those services and if they county were to do things more proactively, say hey, these are the services that you need, here is where you can actually go and get them. And it's those individual personalized engagements that, once you pull all that data together through all the different organizations, from the beginning of a 911 call for whatever reason, through their health record to say, this is the care that they, these are the cares that they have, and these are the services that they need, and oh by the way they might be allergic to something or they might have missed a doctor's appointment, let's go ensure that they are getting the healthcare. There's one state that's actually even thinking about their senior care. Why don't we go put an Alexa in their house to remind them that these are the medications that you need? You have a doctor's appointment at 2 o'clock, do you want me to order a ride for you to get to your doctor's appointment on time? That is proactive. >> And also the isolation for a lot of old people living by themselves, having another voice who can answer their question is actually incredibly meaningful. >> It is, and whether it's individual care to even some are up and rising drivers. A great application in Utah is they've actually used Alexa and wrote skills around Alexa so that they could pre-test at home before they go take their test are the driver's license facility. So when you think about these young kids coming into the government, how interactive and how exciting for them to say, hey, I'm going to take the time, I have my Alexa, she's going to ask me all the questions that I need to literally the other end of the spectrum to say, hey, I can order you an Uber, I could provide you with a reminder of your doctor's appointments or any health checks requirements that you might need along the way. >> So you're talking about the young people today engaging with government in this way, but what about actually entering the government as a career? Because right now we know that there's just such a poisonous atmosphere in Washington, extreme partisanship and it doesn't seem like a very, the government doesn't seem appealing to a lot of people. And when they are thinking about, even the people who are in Cloud, not necessarily in the public policy, what're you hearing, what're you thinking? What's AWS's position on this? >> This is where I love my brother and in the education space. So in two different areas we have California, Cal State Poly, and then we also have Arizona State University who have put in kicks. They're innovation centers are the university that they're enlisting these college students or maybe project based that are coming in and helping solve for some of the state and local government challenges. I think the important part is, if you could grab those individuals in early through that journey in maybe through their later years of education say, hey, you could write apps, you could help them innovate differently because it's through their lens. That gets them excited and I think it's important for everyone to understand the opportunity and whether it's two years, four years or a lifetime career, you've got to see it from the other side and I think, what we hear from the CIOs today across the states is they want to pull that talent in and they want to show them the opportunity, but more importantly they want to see the impact and hear from them what they need differently. So it's fun. >> There's a whole community vibe going on. >> Yeah. >> And we were riffing on day one on our intro about a new generation of skill, not just private and public sector, both. We have a collective intelligence and this is where open-data, openness, comes in, and that's resource. And I think a lot of people are looking at it differently and I think this is what gets my attention here at this event this year, besides the growth and size, is that Cloud is attracting smart people, it's attracting people who look at solutions that are possibly attainable, and for the first time you're seeing kind of progress. >> It's a blank sheet of paper. >> There's been progress before I don't mean to say there's no progress, there's new kinds of progress. >> I think the best part, and I say this to people who are working with Amazon, when you think about a blank sheet of paper, that's where we're at. And I think that's the legacy that we need to get through, it's like this is the way we've done it, this is the way we've always done it. In state and local government we're dealing with procurement challenges, they know how to do CATPACs, they don't know how to OPECs, so how can you help us change the way they look at assets, and more importantly, break through those barriers so that we could start with a blank sheet of paper and build from the ground-up what's needed, versus just keep on building on what was out there. >> So that mean education's paramount for you. So what're you guys doing with education? Share some notable things that are important that are going on that are on education initiatives that you can help people. >> It's starting at the 101. Again I think it's the partnership with the education, what we have in the community college, and even starting in high school, is get people interested in Cloud. But for state and local customers today, it is about workforce redevelopment and giving them the basic tools so that they could rebuild. And there are going to be people that are going to opt-in, and there's going to be people that say, I'm fine where I'm at thank you very much, and there's a place and, more importantly, there's plenty of opportunity for them there. So we're providing them with AWS Educate, we're providing them with our support locally through my team, but the important part is you get in, show them, put their hands on the keyboards and let them go 'cause once they start they're like, I didn't realize I could do that, I didn't understand the value and the opportunity and the cost savings that I could move through with these applications. >> And there's so many jobs out there, I mean Amazon is just one company that's in Cloud. There's Machine Learning, there's AI, there's all kinds of analytics. All kinds of new job opportunities that there's openings for, it's not like. No one's skilled enough! We need more people. >> I'll give you another. There was a great case study in there, they actually did a session here this week, LA County. They get 800-900 calls a day just within an IT, one of the IT organizations and Benny would say, my customer is those who are working in the county. So they've been able to move to CANACT, and now they have a sentiment scale, they are able to not only intake, transcribe, comprehend, but they're able to see the trends that they're saying. What that's been able to save by ways of time and assets and resources it's really allowing them to focus on what's the next generation service that they could deliver differently, and more importantly, cost-effectively. >> Where in the US, 'cause Andy talked about the middle class shrinking with the whole reference to the mills going out of the business, inferring that digital's coming. Where do you see the trends in the US, outside of the major metros like Silicon Valley, New York, et cetera, Austin, where there's growth in digital mind IQ? Are you seeing, obviously we joke with the Minnesota guys, it's O'Shannon on and we had Troy on earlier, both from Minnesota. But is there areas that you're seeing that's kind of flowering up in terms of, ripe for investment for in-migration, or people staying within their states. Because out-migration has been a big problem with these states in the middle of the country. They want to keep people in the state, have in-migration. What're you areas of success been for digital? >> You know what, look at Kansas City. Great use case, smart connected city, IOT. If you take a look at what their aspirations were, it was to rejuvenate that downtown area. It's all started with a street car and the question was, when people got off that street car did they go right or did they go left? And they weren't going left and the question was why? Well when they looked and they surveyed, well there's nothing there, the coffee shops there. So what they did proactively, because this is about providing affordable opportunity for businesses, but more importantly, students and younger that are moving out of home, they put a coffee shop there. Then they put a convenience store, then they put a sandwich shop down there and they started to build this environment that allowed more people to move in and be in that community. It's not about running to the big city, it's about staying maybe where you're at but in a new way. So Kansas City I think has done a fantastic job. >> And then having jobs to work remotely 'cause you're seeing now remote, virtual-first companies are being born and this is kind of a new generational thing where it's not Cloud first. >> Work is where you're at, it's not where you go. >> And yet we do need >> That's an opportunity. >> Clusters of smart people and these sort of centers of innovation beyond just the coasts. >> I'm out of Chicago. I obviously have headquarters in D.C. for public sector and corporate out of Seattle. I think there is a time and place that is required to be there when we're working on those projects or we require that deep time. But I want to be available to my team, and more importantly to my customers, and when I see my customers, my customers are not all in city buildings or county buildings or state buildings. They're all over. So it's actually refreshing to see the state government and local governments actually promote some of that. It's like well hey I'm not going to the office today, let's go meet in this location so that we could figure out how to get through these challenges. It has to be that way because people want to be a part of their community in a different way, and it doesn't necessarily mean being in an office. >> Exactly. >> Okay Kim, well to check in with you and to find out your progress on the state and local, certainly it's real opportunity for jobs and revitalization crossed with digital. >> Yep, as Andy would put it, when we look at this space, it's a labor of love and it's the biggest impact that I could make in my career. >> And tech for good. >> And tech for good. >> Excellent, well thank you so much Kim. >> Thank you. Goodbye. >> Stay tuned for my of the Cube's live coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit. (outro music)

>> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Welcome to the special. Keep conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John for a co host of the Cube. Were Arsenal was a C I S O. C. So for Microsoft also corporate vice President, Chief information security. Thanks for joining me today. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. Thanks. So you have a really big job. You're a warrior in the industry, security is the hardest job on the planet. >> And hang in sight >> of every skirt. Officer is so hard. Tell us about the role of Microsoft. You have overlooked the entire thing. You report to the board, give us an overview of what >> happens. Yeah. I >> mean, it's you know, obviously we're pretty busy. Ah, in this world we have today with a lot of adversaries going on, an operational issues happening. And so I have responsibility. Accountability for obviously protecting Microsoft assets are customer assets. And then ah, And for me, with the trend also responsibility for business continuity Disaster recovery company >> on the sea. So job has been evolving. We're talking before the camera came on that it's coming to CEO CF roll years ago involved to a business leader. Where is the sea? So roll now in your industry is our is a formal title is it establishes their clear lines of reporting. How's it evolved? What's the current state of the market in terms of the sea? So it's roll? >> Yeah, the role is involved. A lot. Like you said, I think like the CIA or twenty years ago, you know, start from the back room of the front room and I think the, you know, one of things I look at in the role is it's really made it before things. There's technical architecture, there's business enablement. There's operational expert excellence. And then there's risk management and the older ah, what does find the right word? But the early see so model was really about the technical architecture. Today. It's really a blend of those four things. How do you enable your business to move forward? How do you take calculated risks or manage risks? And then how do you do it really effectively and efficiently, which is really a new suit and you look at them. You'LL see people evolving to those four functions. >> And who's your boss? Would you report to >> I report to a gentleman by the name of a curtain. Little Benny on DH. He is the chief digital officer, which would be a combination of Seo did officer and transformation as well as all of Microsoft corporate strategy >> and this broad board visibility, actually in security. >> Yeah, you >> guys, how is Microsoft evolved? You've been with the company for a long time >> in the >> old days ahead perimeters, and we talk about on the Cube all the time. When a criminalist environment. Now there's no perimeter. Yeah, the world's changed. How is Microsoft evolved? Its its view on security Has it evolved from central groups to decentralize? How is it how how was it managed? What's the what's the current state of the art for security organization? >> Well, I think that, you know, you raise a good point, though things have changed. And so in this idea, where there is this, you know, perimeter and you demanded everything through the network that was great. But in a client to cloak cloud world, we have today with mobile devices and proliferation or cloud services, and I ot the model just doesn't work anymore. So we sort of simplified it down into Well, we should go with this, you know, people calls your trust, I refer to It is just don't talk to strangers. But the idea being is this really so simplified, which is you've got to have a good identity, strong identity to participate. You have to have managed in healthy device to participate, to talk to, ah, Microsoft Asset. And then you have to have data in telemetry that surrounds that all the time. And so you basically have a trust, trust and then verify model between those three things. And that's really the fundamental. It's really that simple. >> David Lava as Pascal senior with twenty twelve when he was M. C before he was the C E O. V M. Where he said, You know his security do over and he was like, Yes, it's going to be a do over its opportunity. What's your thoughts on that perspective? Has there been a do over? Is it to do over our people looking at security and a whole new way? What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean, I've been around security for a long time, and it's there's obviously changes in Massa nations that happened obviously, at Microsoft. At one point we had a security division. I was the CTO in that division, and we really thought the better way to do it was make security baked in all the products that we do. Everything has security baked in. And so we step back and really change the way we thought about it. To make it easier for developers for end users for admin, that is just a holistic part of the experience. So again, the technology really should disappear. If you really want to be affected, I think >> don't make it a happy thought. Make it baked in from Day one on new product development and new opportunity. >> Yeah, basically, shift the whole thing left. Put it right in from the beginning. And so then, therefore, it's a better experience for everyone using it. >> So one of things we've observed over the past ten years of doing the Cube when do first rolled up with scene, you know, big data role of date has been critical, and I think one of the things that's interesting is, as you get data into the system, you can use day that contextually and look at the contextual behavioral data. It's really is create some visibility into things you, Meyer may not have seen before. Your thoughts and reaction to the concept of leveraging data because you guys get a lot of data. How do you leverage the data? What's the view of data? New data will make things different. Different perspectives creates more visibility. Is that the right view? What's your thoughts on the role of Data World Data plays? >> Well, they're gonna say, You know, we had this idea. There's identity, there's device. And then there's the data telemetry. That platform becomes everything we do, what there's just security and are anomalous behavior like you were talking about. It is how do we improve the user experience all the way through? And so we use it to the service health indicator as well. I think the one thing we've learned, though, is I was building where the biggest data repositories your head for some time. Like we look at about a six point five trillion different security events a day in any given day, and so sort of. How do you filter through that? Manage? That's pretty amazing, says six point five trillion >> per day >> events per day as >> coming into Microsoft's >> that we run through the >> ecosystem your systems. Your computers? >> Yeah. About thirty five hundred people. Reason over that. So you can Certainly the math. You need us. Um, pretty good. Pretty good technology to make it work effectively for you and efficiently >> at RC A Heard a quote on the floor and on the q kind of echoing the same sentiment is you can't hire your way to success in this market is just not enough people qualified and jobs available to handle the volume and the velocity of the data coming in. Automation plays a critical role. Your reaction to that comment thoughts on? >> Well, I think I think the cure there, John, those when you talk about the volume of the data because there's what we used to call speeds and feeds, right? How big is it? And I used to get great network data so I can share a little because we've talked, like from the nineties or whatever period that were there. Like the network was everything, but it turns out much like a diverse workforce creates the best products. It turns out diverse data is more important than speeds and feeds. So, for example, authentication data map to, you know, email data map to end point data map. TEO SERVICE DATA Soon you're hosting, you know, the number of customers. We are like financial sector data vs Healthcare Data. And so it's the ability Teo actually do correlation across that diverse set of data that really differentiates it. So X is an example. We update one point two billion devices every single month. We do six hundred thirty billion authentications every single month. And so the ability to start correlating those things and movement give us a set of insights to protect people like we never had before. >> That's interesting telemetry you're getting in the marketplace. Plus, you have the systems to bring it in >> a pressure pressure coming just realized. And this all with this consent we don't do without consent, we would never do without consent. >> Of course, you guys have the terms of service. You guys do a good job on that, But I think the point that I'm seeing there is that you guys are Microsoft. Microsoft got a lot of access. Get a lot of stuff out there. How does an enterprise move to that divers model because they will have email, obviously. But they have devices. So you guys are kind of operating? I would say tear one of the level of that environment cause you're Microsoft. I'm sure the big scale players to that. I'm just an enterprising I'm a bank or I'm an insurance company or I'm in oil and gas, Whatever the vertical. Maybe. What do I do if I'm the sea? So they're So what does that mean, Diversity? How should they? >> Well, I think they have a diverse set of data as well. Also, if they participate, you know, even in our platform today, we you know, we have this thing called the security graph, which is an FBI people can tap into and tap into the same graph that I use and so they can use that same graph particular for them. They can use our security experts to help them with that if they don't have the all the resource and staff to go do that. So we provide both both models for that to happen, and I think that's why a unique perspective I should think should remind myself of which is we should have these three things. We have a really good security operations group we have. I think that makes us pretty unique that people can leverage. We build this stuff into the product, which I think is good. But then the partnership, the other partners who play in the graph, it's not just us. So there's lots of people who play on that as well. >> So like to ask you two lines of questions. Wanting on the internal complex is that organizations will have on the external complexity and realities of threats and coming in. How do they? How do you balance that out? What's your vision on that? Because, you know, actually, there's technology, his culture and people, you know in those gaps and capabilities on on all three. Yeah, internally just getting the culture right and then dealing with the external. How does a C so about his company's balance? Those realities? >> Well, I think you raised a really good point, which is how do you move the culture for? That's a big conversation We always have. And that was sort of, you know, it's interesting because the the one side we have thirty five hundred people who have security title in their job, But there's over one hundred thousand people who every day part of their job is doing security, making sure they'LL understand that and know that is a key part we should reinforce everyday on DSO. But I think balancing it is, is for me. It's actually simplifying just a set of priorities because there's no shortage of, you know, vendors who play in the space. There's no shortage of things you can read about. And so for us it was just simplifying it down and getting it. That simplifies simplified view of these are the three things we're going to go do we build onerous platform to prioritize relative to threat, and then and then we ensure we're building quality products. Those five things make it happen. >> I'd like to get your thoughts on common You have again Before I came on camera around how you guys view simplification terminal. You know, you guys have a lot of countries, the board level, and then also you made a common around trust of security and you an analogy around putting that drops in a bucket. So first talk about the simplification, how you guys simplifying it and why? Why is that important? >> You think we supply two things one was just supplying the message to people understood the identity of the device and making sure everything is emitting the right telemetry. The second part that was like for us but a Z to be illustrative security passwords like we started with this technology thing and we're going to do to FAA. We had cards and we had readers and oh, my God, we go talk to a user. We say we're going to put two FAA everywhere and you could just see recoil and please, >> no. And then >> just a simple change of being vision letters. And how about this? We're just going to get rid of passwords then People loved like they're super excited about it. And so, you know, we moved to this idea of, you know, we always said this know something, know something new, how something have something like a card And they said, What about just be something and be done with it? And so, you know, we built a lot of the capability natively into the product into windows, obviously, but I supported energies environment. So I you know, I support a lot of Mac clinics and IOS and Android as well So you've read it. Both models you could use by or you could use your device. >> That's that. That's that seems to be a trend. Actually, See that with phones as well as this. Who you are is the password and why is the support? Because Is it because of these abuses? Just easy to program? What's the thought process? >> I think there's two things that make it super helpful for us. One is when you do the biometric model. Well, first of all, to your point, the the user experience is so much better. Like we walk up to a device and it just comes on. So there's no typing this in No miss typing my password. And, you know, we talked earlier, and that was the most popular passwords in Seattle with Seahawks two thousand seventeen. You can guess why, but it would meet the complexity requirements. And so the idea is, just eliminate all that altogether. You walk up machine, recognize you, and you're often running s o. The user experience is great, but plus it's Actually the entropy is harder in the biometric, which makes it harder for people to break it, but also more importantly, it's bound locally to the device. You can't run it from somewhere else. And that's the big thing that I think people misunderstanding that scenario, which is you have to be local to that. To me, that's a >> great example of rethinking the security paradigm. Exactly. Let's talk about trust and security. You you have an opinion on this. I want to get your thoughts, the difference between trust and security so they go hand in hand at the same time. They could be confused. Your thoughts on this >> well being. You can have great trust. You can, so you can have great security. But you generally and you would hope that would equate like a direct correlation to trust. But it's not. You need to you build trust. I think our CEO said it best a long time ago. You put one bucket of water, one bucket. Sorry, one truffle water in the bucket every time. And that's how you build trust. Over time, my teenager will tell you that, and then you kick it over and you put it on the floor. So you have to. It's always this ratcheting up bar that builds trust. >> They doing great you got a bucket of water, you got a lot of trust, that one breach. It's over right, >> and you've got to go rebuild it and you've got to start all over again. And so key, obviously, is not to have that happen. But then, that's why we make sure you have operational rigor and >> great example that just totally is looking Facebook. Great. They have massive great security. What really went down this past week, but still the trust factor on just some of the other or societal questions? >> Yeah, >> and that something Do it. >> Security. Yeah, I think that's a large part of making sure you know you're being true. That's what I said before about, you know, we make sure we have consent. We're transparent about how we do the things we do, and that's probably the best ways to build trust. >> Okay, so you guys have been successful in Microsoft, just kind of tight the company for second to your role. It's pretty well documented that the stock prices at an all time high. So if Donatella Cube alumni, by the way, has been on the cue before he he took over and clear he didn't pivot. He just said we'd go in the cloud. And so the great moves, he don't eat a lot of great stuff. Open source from open compute to over the source. And this ship has turned and everything's going great. But that cheering the cloud has been great for the company. So I gotta ask you, as you guys move to the cloud, the impact to your businesses multi fold one products, ecosystem suppliers. All these things are changing. How has security role in the sea? So position been impact that what have you guys done? How does that impact security in general? Thoughts? >> Yeah, I think we obviously were like any other enterprise we had thousands of online are thousands of line of business applications, and we did a transformation, and we took a method logical approach with risk management. And we said, Okay, well, this thirty percent we should just get rid of and decommission these. We should, you know, optimize and just lifting shifting application. That cloud was okay, but it turns out there's massive benefit there, like for elasticity. Think of things that quarterly reporting or and you'll surveys or things like that where you could just dynamically grow and shrink your platform, which was awesome linear scale that we never had Cause those events I talk about would require re architectures. Separate function now becomes linear. And so I think there is a lot of things from a security perspective I could do in a much more efficient must wear a fish. In fact, they're then I had to have done it before, but also much more effective. I just have compute capability. Didn't have I have signal I didn't have. And so we had to wrap her head around that right and and figure out how to really leverage that. And to be honest, get the point. We're exploited because you were the MySpace. I have disaster and continent and business. This is processed stuff. And so, you know, everyone build dark fiber, big data centers, storage, active, active. And now when you use a platform is a service like on that kind of azure. You could just click a Bach and say, I want this thing to replicate. It also feeds your >> most diverse data and getting the data into the system that you throw a bunch of computer at that scale. So What diverse data? How does that impact the good guys and the bad guys? That doesn't tip the scales? Because if you have divers date and you have his ability, it's a race for who has the most data because more data diversity increases the aperture and our visibility into events. >> Yeah, I you >> know, I should be careful. I feel like I always This's a job. You always feel like you're treading water and trying to trying to stay ahead. But I think that, um, I think for the first time in my tenure do this. I feel there's an asymmetry that benefits. They're good guys in this case because of the fact that your ability to reason over large sets of data like that and is computed data intensive and it will be much harder for them like they could generally use encryption were effectively than some organization because the one the many relationship that happens in that scenario. But in the data center you can't. So at least for now, I feel like there's a tip This. The scales have tipped a bit for the >> guy that you're right on that one. I think it's good observation I think that industry inside look at the activity around, from new fund adventures to overall activity on the analytics side. Clearly, the data edge is going to be an advantage. I think that's a great point. Okay, that's how about the explosion of devices we're seeing now. An explosion of pipe enabled devices, Internet of things to the edge. Operational technologies are out there that in factory floors, everything being I P enables, kind of reminds me of the old days. Were Internet population you'd never uses on the Internet is growing, and >> that costs a lot >> of change in value, creation and opportunities devices. Air coming on both physical and software enabled at a massive rate is causing a lot of change in the industry. Certainly from a security posture standpoint, you have more surface area, but they're still in opportunity to either help on the do over, but also create value your thoughts on this exploding device a landscape, >> I think your Boston background. So Metcalfe's law was the value the net because the number of the nodes on the network squared right, and so it was a tense to still be true, and it continues to grow. I think there's a huge value and the device is there. I mean, if you look at the things we could do today, whether it's this watch or you know your smartphone or your smart home or whatever it is, it's just it's pretty unprecedented the capabilities and not just in those, but even in emerging markets where you see the things people are doing with, you know, with phones and Lauren phones that you just didn't have access to from information, you know, democratization of information and analysis. I think it's fantastic. I do think, though, on the devices there's a set of devices that don't have the same capabilities as some of the more markets, so they don't have encryption capability. They don't have some of those things. And, you know, one of Microsoft's responses to that was everything. Has an M see you in it, right? And so we, you know, without your spirit, we created our own emcee. That did give you the ability to update it, to secure, to run it and manage it. And I think that's one of the things we're doing to try to help, which is to start making these I, O. T or Smart devices, but at a very low cost point that still gives you the ability because the farm would not be healed Update, which we learn an O. T. Is that over time new techniques happen And you I can't update the system >> from That's getting down to the product level with security and also having the data great threats. So final final talk Tracking one today with you on this, your warrior in the industry, I said earlier. See, so is a hard job you're constantly dealing with compliance to, you know, current attacks, new vector, new strains of malware. And it's all over the map. You got it. You got got the inbound coming in and you got to deal with all that the blocking and tackling of the organization. >> What do you What do >> you finding as best practice? What's the what if some of the things on the cso's checklist that you're constantly worried about and or investing in what some of >> the yeah, >> the day to day take us through the day to day life >> of visited a lot? Yeah, it >> starts with not a Leslie. That's the first thing you have to get used to, but I think the you know again, like I said, there's risk Manager. Just prioritize your center. This is different for every company like for us. You know, hackers don't break and they just log in. And so identity still is one of the top things. People have to go work on him. You know, get rid of passwords is good for the user, but good for the system. We see a lot in supply chain going on right now. Obviously, you mentioned in the Cambridge Analytical Analytics where we had that issue. It's just down the supply chain. And when you look at not just third party but forthe party fifth party supply and just the time it takes to respond is longer. So that's something that we need to continue to work on. And then I think you know that those are some of the other big thing that was again about this. How do you become effective and efficient and how you managed that supply chain like, You know, I've been on a mission for three years to reduce my number of suppliers by about fifty percent, and there's still lots of work to do there, but it's just getting better leverage from the supplier I have, as well as taking on new capability or things that we maybe providing natively. But at the end of the day, if you have one system that could do what four systems going Teo going back to the war for talent, having people, no forces and versus one system, it's just way better for official use of talent. And and obviously, simplicity is the is the friend of security. Where is entropy is not, >> and also you mentioned quality data diversity it is you're into. But also there's also quality date of you have quality and diverse data. You could have a nice, nice mechanism to get machine learning going well, but that's kind of complex, because in the thie modes of security breaches, you got pre breached in breech post breach. All have different data characteristics all flowing together, so you can't just throw that answer across as a prism across the problem sets correct. This is super important, kind of fundamentally, >> yeah, but I think I >> would I would. The way I would characterize those is it's honestly, well, better lessons. I think I learned was living how to understand. Talk with CFO, and I really think we're just two things. There's technical debt that we're all working on. Everybody has. And then there's future proofing the company. And so we have a set of efforts that go onto like Red Team. Another actually think like bad people break them before they break you, you know, break it yourself and then go work on it. And so we're always balancing how much we're spending on the technical, that cleanup, you know, modernizing systems and things that are more capable. And then also the future proofing. If you're seeing things coming around the corner like cryptography and and other other element >> by chain blockchain, my supply chain is another good, great mechanism. So you constantly testing and R and D also practical mechanisms. >> And there in the red team's, which are the teams that attacking pen everything, which is again, break yourself first on this super super helpful for us >> well bred. You've seen a lot of ways of innovation have been involved in multiple ways computer industry client server all through the through the days, so feel. No, I feel good about this you know, because it reminds me and put me for broken the business together. But this is the interesting point I want to get to is there's a lot of younger Si SOS coming in, and a lot of young talent is being attractive. Security has kind of a game revived to it. You know, most people, my friends, at a security expert, they're all gamers. They love game, and now the thrill of it. It's exciting, but it's also challenging. Young people coming might not have experience. You have lessons you've learned. Share some thoughts over the years that scar either scar tissue or best practices share some advice. Some of the younger folks coming in breaking into the business of, you know, current situation. What you learned over the years it's Apple Apple. But now the industry. >> Yeah, sadly, I'd probably say it's no different than a lot of the general advice I would have in the space, which is there's you value experience. But it turns out I value enthusiasm and passion more here so you can teach about anybody whose passion enthusiastic and smart anything they want. So we get great data people and make them great security people, and we have people of a passion like you know, this person. It's his mission is to limit all passwords everywhere and like that passion. Take your passion and driver wherever you need to go do. And I >> think the nice >> thing about security is it is something that is technically complex. Human sociology complex, right? Like you said, changing culture. And it affects everything we do, whether it's enterprise, small, medium business, large international, it's actually a pretty It's a fasten, if you like hard problem. If you're a puzzle person, it's a great It's a great profession >> to me. I like how you said Puzzle. That's I think that's exactly it. They also bring up a good point. I want to get your thoughts on quickly. Is the talent gap is is really not about getting just computer science majors? It's bigger than that. In fact, I've heard many experts say, and you don't have to be a computer scientist. You could be a lot of cross disciplines. So is there a formula or industry or profession, a college degree? Or is it doesn't matter. It's just smart person >> again. It depends if your job's a hundred percent. Security is one thing, but like what we're trying to do is make not we don't have security for developers you want have developed to understand oppa security and what they build is an example on DSO. Same with administrators and other components. I do think again I would say the passion thing is a key piece for us, but But there's all aspects of the profession, like the risk managers air, you know, on the actuarial side. Then there's math people I had one of my favorite people was working on his phD and maladaptive behavior, and he was super valuable for helping us understand what actually makes things stick when you're trying to train their educate people. And what doesn't make that stick anthropologist or super helpful in this field like anthropologist, Really? Yeah, anthropologist are great in this field. So yeah, >> and sociology, too, you mentioned. That would think that's a big fact because you've got human aspect interests, human piece of it. You have society impact, so that's really not really one thing. It's really cross section, depending upon where you want to sit in the spectrum of opportunity, >> knowing it gives us a chance to really hire like we hire a big thing for us has been hard earlier in career and building time because it's just not all available. But then also you, well, you know, hire from military from law enforcement from people returning back. It's been actually, it's been a really fascinating thing from a management perspective that I didn't expect when I did. The role on has been fantastic. >> The mission. Personal question. Final question. What's getting you excited these days? I mean, honestly, you had a very challenging job and you have got attend all the big board meetings, but the risk management compliance. There's a lot of stuff going on, but it's a lot >> of >> technology fund in here to a lot of hard problems to solve. What's getting you excited? What what trends or things in the industry gets you excited? >> Well, I'm hopeful we're making progress on the bad guys, which I think is exciting. But honestly, this idea the you know, a long history of studying safety when I did this and I would love to see security become the air bags of the technology industry, right? It's just always there on new president. But you don't even know it's there until you need it. And I think that getting to that vision would be awesome. >> And then really kind of helping move the trust equation to a whole other level reputation. New data sets so data, bits of data business. >> It's total data business >> breath. Thanks for coming on the Q. Appreciate your insights, but also no see. So the chief information security officer at Microsoft, also corporate vice president here inside the Cuban Palo Alto. This is cute conversations. I'm John Career. Thanks for watching. >> Thank you.

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering IB time thing 2019 brought to you by IBM welcome back to the cubes coverage day one IBM think 2019 I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Volante we're in San Francisco where IBM think the second IBM think is at this new rejuvenated Moscone Center we're welcoming back to the cube being a home and VP of offering management from IBM being it's great to have you back on the program good morning and we're welcoming to the cube Alistair Simon VP of storage development at IBM welcome yeah thank you good to be here so we're gonna be here for four days big event being and we were talking before we went live expecting 25 to 30,000 people at the second annual IBM think which is this conglomeration of what five just six what used to be disparate shows talk to us about some of the exciting announcements coming out from with respect to data protection storage cyber resiliency yeah no this is a great event as you said this is our second first time in San Francisco here and a great venue we have close to 30,000 clients and participants here is a big event right you know the topics around an announcements you'll hear about around you know cloud multi cloud solutions ai security infrastructure right so in general quite a broad set of new topics at announcements that think but from a storage perspective you know we've done a number of new announcements or doing number of new announcements around things were doing around made-up data protection around solutions in general whether it's blockchain cyber resiliency private cloud solutions those types of things and then of course around our Flash systems offerings so we have a great set of announcements occurring this week I know you guys have to think about you know put on your binoculars and think about what's coming next so wonder if we could talk about some of the big drivers vina that you're seeing in the marketplace and Alister that you're driving in in development I mean data obviously if we talks about data but we talk about data differently than we used to talk about a ten years ago cloud obviously is a mega trend you're mentioning some new technologies like blockchain Nai what are the big drivers that you guys look at and how does that affect your development roadmaps yes certainly from a you know industry perspective and what clients are dealing with and looking to for solutions for from us you mentioned few you know AI having that end-to-end data pipeline and set of capabilities we made a number of announcement second half of last year around AI solutions that allow clients to start from the beginning all the way to the end and meet their data needs from whether its high performance you know storage and and ingest to capacity tiers being able to hold large amounts of data and having that complete into in solution whether it's with our power AI enterprise or some of the things we did around our spectrum storage for AI within Nvidia so you know a lot of focus around AI but also as clients are getting more and more into moving some of their cloud were close to the cloud or leveraging multi-cloud you know today clients are about 20% on their cloud journey there's still that 80% that's there that we need to help them with and a lot of the solutions today they tend to from a cloud perspective proprietary potentially you know inconsistent set of management tools so being able to help clients and focus on multi cloud solutions that's a big area for us as well and then cyber resilience ease the other yeah and I think just talking about the multi cloud aspect clearly when we develop our products were very focused on being able to connect to the different cloud protocols that are required to move the data from the storage out there to the cloud and do it in a performance related way I think the other thing from an analytic standpoint is really important is we've been very focused in delivering the performance in the storage system that's required both from a bandwidth and sheer I UPS perspective very low latency and you'll see that with some of the technologies we brought out very recently in our all-flash arrays where we're all nvme based both connected to the servers and to the storage so really low latency for applications so you can get the data as fast as you can into the annum engines so very focused on these new technologies that enhance the new capabilities Benny you mentioned something interesting I always love stats a geek out Dave knows this about me the customers are about 20% of the way into their cloud journey we we talk about it as a journey all the time right Dave digital transformation that's an interesting number you also mention some of the something that IBM is really poised to help customers achieve is this this AI journey from beginning to end if a customer is in this process of digital transformation and has what are the stats and average Enterprise has you know between five private and public clouds what is that AI journey obviously it has to be concurrent with a cloud journey there's no time that actually do one person than the other but I'm curious what is the beginning of that ai journey for a customer who is going alright we're in this hybrid multi cloud world that's where we live we have to start preparing our data for AI because we know on multiple levels there's a tremendous amount of opportunity how do you help them start yeah you know and what we typically see for clients says they'll start out on some small AI projects in different different parts of their you know environment and those can start and you know server with internal storage or internal SSDs etc but pretty soon as they want to move that to an enterprise or more of the complete set of solution that requires more of the enterprise capability so as Alistair talked about right for ingests to be able to have the right set of solution whether it's you know having the right set of performance of latency attributes etc and making sure we're working and then and then the capacity tier so it's really important that you know and we do this with our clients as help them start with the with the initial footprint but then make sure that you know from an architecture perspective they're set up to be able to grow into that larger because analytics is all about you know that volume of data and you're kind of mining it so that's kind of the key there how's the first time I ever went to Tucson it was I was there for on a tape mission we had a largely a tape facility lots has changed I'm sure since then the development protocol the environment to hear a lot about two Pizza teams you know speed and agile can you talk a little bit about IBM's process development process yeah we're actually very much well down the road towards a drive to agile development throughout all of our development teams worldwide not just in Tucson and that brings a number of benefits to us it allows us to to quickly prototype new functions so that we can test them out with our clients very early in the development process we're not just waiting till the end of the cycle to try something just like a beta test which we do to a large extent but we want to forget with clients early in the cycle so we can get that initial feedback on designs to make sure that we've done the right thing and an example of that would be what we did with cyber resiliency and our safeguarded copy on our PS 8000 Enterprise array we worked with a large financial institution early on to model the design we were going to provide for that and then we worked with them through the introduction of it and through the early testing and we've put that out at the end of last year and seeing great demand for it so that allows you to take snapshots of your data make those snapshots immutable bad actors can't come in and delete that data and if somebody does correct corrupt your your production copy you can do a quick restore from it all done hand-in-hand with a client through the process this is a ransomware play is that right or not necessarily maybe we could take us through like a likely solution for a client you're creating ransomware you hear about air-gap but there's more to it there yeah so you know typical solution you know it's really around being able to work with clients to plan for because given these events are happening more and more frequently and if you assume that the bad guys are going to get in or they're already in and you need to you notice it's a matter of time then storage plays a huge role in the cyber resiliency plan right so it's really around planning then detect and recovery so we talked about it in that way and from a planning perspective we do a lot of things we insure clients data is on infrastructure that can't be compromised we ensure that they have things like air gap being air gapping is where you know if a bad actor gets into one environment they can't do something bad with the other environment think as you know creating a physical separation we have our tape solutions as a classical example but there's also technologies like immutable right ones read many we have that on our cloud object storage our spectrum scale software-defined storage offerings and then also around data data protection in general making sure you know your copies well snapshots it's essentially that you're setting up the snapshots in a way that they are secure you create that separation but that's the the planning phase another aspect of it that we hope clients was you know model that baseline operation what is the environment look like in under normal operations what are these storage you know infrastructure patterns what are the systems that are the most critical for your business and you know operations what's their day-to-day usage where are they once you have that established then it's all about monitoring and looking for abnormal activities and and if you do see some set of abnormal activities being able to detect that are spectrum protect offering that's a data protection we've built in analytics to look for things and patterns like malware ransomware right and be able to alert now once you've detected something like that being able to quickly recover from that is really important get the business up and running and that's where you know a lot of our storage offerings are automated from a data restore perspective being able to bring those copies back very quickly get your business running very quickly that's important and so all of these you know plan detect recover is where storage plays a huge role across all of that I'm curious we know that security issues are unfortunately commonplace every day through the at and I saw stopped the other day the average security breach will cost an organization upwards of 3.8 million dollars one of the the things I'm curious about is in your customer conversations we're talking about data protection at the storage level and infusing that technology with the intelligence and the automation to facilitate that recovery where are your conversations in a customer are they at the business level because I imagine you know security and protection is at the c-suite yeah this is about some of those how are those business objectives helping to officer facilitate development of the actual technology yeah these are definitely CIO types of conversations but we also you know once we engage in that conversation and go down that journey we work with the clients very closely we do the what we call design thinking kind of workshop so together with the client we work on what types of what are some of the you know top three things that from a business need perspective that they see and then we work to ensure that we come to what we call these Hills these goals that we define jointly and then Alistair and his team work to go over find those and as they're developing then work closely with the client to ensure that we're achieving what the you know what we both expected and deliver it to whether it's a starting with a minimal viable product to product izing or or full product ization and again I would say engaging with the clients early in the process is really important because we'll find out things like what are their you know security requirements within their own data centers which can vary from client to client and it helps us understand how to build in things like how do they want to manage their encryption keys in which particular ways they want for that to meet their own security requirements and it can drive different development strategies from that you guys were talking about spectrum protect earlier and just data protection in general it's a space that's heating up I was talking about Tucson before and tape and tape used to be backup that was it even the language is changing it's called data protection now some people call it data management which of course could mean a lot of things to a lot of different people if you're talking to a database person and different maybe from your storage person but the parlance is evolving and it fits into multi cloud people are trying to get more out of their backup than just insurance so what are you seeing is some of the drivers there how does it fit into your multi cloud strategy and what is ultimately IBM's data protection portfolio strategies yeah so you know tape in general one of the you know when you've got large amounts of data that you're looking to archive tape is a great solution and we are seeing more and more interest from you know cloud service providers leveraging tape as their archives here from overall data protection and data management perspective we think that that base is you know basic data protection and making sure that the data is available when you need it is there but we think that has also evolved to where you do things like snapshots write snapshots that uh that are in the native format so you can for operational recovery very quickly be able to restore those and over a period of time if you no longer need it you can back it up to traditional data protection from that snapshot based technology of course and you have the different cloud consumption models in cloud scale that are enabling you know clients to leverage other types of storage whether it's cloud tier or you know cloud object storage and in our portfolio so you've got the consumption models the scale that's driving some of that put on top of that some of the things we talked about like cyber resiliency right ensuring security and protecting that data from things like malware the bad actors right that's very important and then at the you know what we see coming forward from a transformation prospective client transformation is really bringing all of that together so you have your your data protection you've got your unstructured data whether you know I talked about cloud object storage our scale offerings you've got you know your your archive data but also then being able to put it all together and get value out of that a data by looking at the metadata we've introduced an offering in second half of last year or fourth quarter we call spectrum discover allows clients to be able to you know get a catalog of that metadata and very quickly be able to get view and insights into their environment but also be able to integrate that into their analytic workflow and be able to customize that metadata so you can see a holistic solution coming together from not just data protection all the way up through a complete a is DevOps analytics exact that's the recovery really I'm kind of you know if we think about this the matically from a transformation perspective is this really what you're talking about facilitating security transformation absolutely I mean you know security at all aspects whether it's you know the basic encryption of data at rest encryption of data and flying to the the higher level you know detection of these types of security breaches or events and also the protection even if somebody does breach you you still got the recovery point and say a safeguarded copy that you can go back to to make sure your data is restored so even going beyond the protecting against the breach itself fully encompassing and last question and in terms of that data protection where's the people element right because we all know that that's some common denominator of of any Toto sort of security issue is is people where where are what's the human element in the conversation about what you guys are delivering are there may be some human error proof components that are essential that you're helping to develop based on all the history that we've seen with breaches yeah I think you know overall from helping the client ensure that they've got their environment set up properly from a role based access control perspective ensuring that that separation and that in the overall solution is architected to include some of these capabilities whether it's air gap being or or you know the immutable technologies those types of things look you know whether the bad actors whether they're outside the company getting in or someone you know within the company you have to have the right set of measures that are implemented and it is around security encryption you know role based access control all of that well being Alastair thank you so much for joining David me on the cube this morning we appreciate your time and look forward to hearing a lot of more news coming out over the next four days great thank you very much yeah thank you for Dave Volante I'm Lisa Martin you're watching the cube live at IBM think 2019 stick around we'll be right back with our next guest [Music]

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Conga Connect West 2018. Brought to you by Conga. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with theCube. The Mark Benny office finished this portion of the keynote, so we can get back to business here. Special event outside of sales force, the 171,000 people over watching Mark and the keynote. We're here at a special Conga event, it's called Conga Connect West. It's about 3,000 people they said they had last year, 3 days of taking over the thirsty bear, they've got free food, free drink, free entertainment, lot of demos, come on over. The invitation is open. Just make sure you come early because the line is really long, but we're excited to get into it with a practitioner, we love to talk to customers. So, really excited to have our next guest, Susan O'Leary, she's a continuous improvement leader 6and program manager for Abiomed. Great to see you. >> Hey Jeff, thank you so much for that introduction. I'm so excited to be here. >> Excellent, and with her is Will Spindla, the VP of marketing from Conga. Will, great to see you. Warming up before your panel tomorrow. >> Exactly. (laughs) >> So, first off, impressions of this show, it never fails to amaze me when we come to Dreamforce, what happens to downtown San Francisco. >> It's insane, isn't it? >> It is crazy. It never disappoints, there is so much going on at every moment, and especially right here at Connect West. >> Right. So, what is Abiomed, for folks that aren't familiar with the company? >> So, Abiomed, we're a class-3 medical device company. We make the world's smallest heart pump and our corporate mission is to recover hearts and save lives. And more recently, we have some commercials for our flagship product, the Impella product, on T.V. So I feel like we've really arrived at some point in the company's maturity that we have television commercials. >> Right, so what does class-3 mean? >> So, it's a certain level of classification within the FDA, and class-3 means essentially, in the simplest way, that it goes inside the body. >> Okay. >> So, the rigor at which it's controlled, and how products are introduced into market, have a very rigorous path for patient quality and compliance and safety, it's a pretty exciting space to be, but it's not easy to bring a product to market. >> And you've got hardware, I imagine you've got all kinds of crazy software, you probably have all types of continuous monitoring, not a simple device. >> No. >> And a very important one. >> A very important one. That's right. >> So we're here at Conga, Connect West, what do you guys do with Conga, where does Conga play in your world? >> So Conga has enabled Abiomed to do amazing things. We're here at Dreamforce, obviously as Salesforce customers, and we began our journey with Salesforce back in 2009, and we discovered that we had some business processes that still resided outside of Salesforce, that people were struggling with these PowerPoint presentations and putting together their sales forecast, and all the data that would really drive that lives in the Salesforce orb. A tour on the app exchange back probably 2010 I would say, Will, and Jeff, I found the composer product, and it was a pretty easy sell to our VP of sales, a quick proof of concept, taking certain data that people were manually manipulating and with the click of a button, here is your forecast blown up in all kinds of colors and charts and graphs, it was a game changer. >> All right, so that's early intro, right, 'cause the biggest knock on Salesforce, always, is getting sales people to use it, right, and changing behavior is much harder than writing software or developing software. So, did you find that that app was the killer app to get the sales team to actually use the tool? >> Well, so they were using- >> 'Cause everybody's got the same story, right, everyone's got PowerPoint, and a lot of times people use Salesforce for reporting, not actually working, and now it's double data entry, I can't stand it, but it sounds like this composer was really a game-changer for you. >> Well, it brought the best of both worlds together because our field organization was using Salesforce, they're doing their work in that application, and yet the model that leadership wanted for delivering their weekly forecast in their update was very, very specific, and you couldn't do that in any Salesforce report. You can do it in Excel. >> So the forecast model was outside of Salesforce driven by the executive leadership, even though the day-to-day work was happening inside of Salesforce? >> You're right, you're right. >> And this was like, "Oh, it happens over and over again?" >> (laughs) It was the visualization that was impossible in standard Salesforce reports, but you could build it in Excel, and then merge the data with the composer product, so that was our first use case, and we have invented so many more, but that got us in the door, so to speak. >> So, Will, have you ever heard that story before? >> Well, what I was going to say, I think it's interesting because I worked at Salesforce for about six years before I came to Conga, and one of the things that we often saw was that sales people sometimes put their data in Salesforce, unless they're coaxed very greatly, but what they actually don't do a lot of the time is leverage the data that's inside there once it's there. And so the nice part about having a tool like Conga is that you can make it so the sales people don't have to do anything with the data, right? You can automate- >> Exactly. >> Creation of reports and charts and PowerPoint presentations, so that the sales reps, they don't have to do anything. >> They just click a button. >> Click a button. >> They click a button, they have the relationships with their customers, they know how to win the deals, they know how to take all those conversations to the next level, and why do we want them crunching numbers and doing that? We don't want them doing that. There's no value in that. So, you find great tools that take the data and put it in a button, and game changed. >> Yeah, and then you can ensure that whatever process or policy your company, like Abiomed has, every single sales rep is within that guideline, so they're not making their own decisions, they're doing what the organization wants them to. >> That's right, they're following a tested and validated model that delivers what leadership wants. And I'm probably not joking if I say half a day on Friday, if you were a cardiology account manager, you would be trying to cobble this together in a PowerPoint and then turn it in to the office. Half a day. >> So the office is asking for a PowerPoint presentation on the updated status of your pipeline, basically? >> This very specific visualization model. And, with Composer, with how people are with data, they think that this is all they really need, but once they saw what we could put in that output document from Composer, it has grown to be an enormous analytic tool set for the field team that drives their forecast. >> I'm just curious in terms of the scale and the size of team, don't tell me anything out of school but, are you talking tens of reps, hundreds of reps? >> Hundreds of reps. >> Hundreds of reps. >> Globally, we have over 100 sales territories, and so we have easily 450 feet on the street. And certain people have different roles, right, so the cardiology account manager role is that forecasting leader in the company, that person is really clicking that button to generate that document, and there's well over 100 in our organization. >> So, Will, you hear these stories all the time, I'm sure, is Composer the killer app to get people to start to embrace this tool? Do you see that time and time again? >> Yeah, I think one of the nice parts about Composer is that you can, in some respects, direct your entire sales or organization on the way the company wants to showcase themselves, whether it's in reporting, whether it's highly branded and pixel-perfect documents, what we've seen a lot of people do is you may have a monthly or a quarterly business review. >> Oh, we do that! We have Composer for that. We have this beautifully crafted merge template that delivers a business review to our customers. Yeah, that was the second thing we did with Composer. >> That's right. >> Where we first did the forecast then we did the business review. >> Business review. >> Wow! >> And you can do that in Excel, or in PowerPoint, or in Word, or even in HTML, it just gives you the ability to take data, that sits inside Salesforce, and push it out in any format you want. And the nice part, too, is you can pull data from other systems. >> Right. >> So it can be in your ERP or your accounting system and brings it all into one spot. >> I just can't help but think of the poor guy on the receiving end of the 450 PowerPoint decks on Friday afternoon, I mean how did that get rolled up? >> Yeah, we had another process for that. >> I don't want to hear that one, that one sounds scary. >> There's the regional, there's a country base- >> Too much. >> And it's all Composer. It's all Composer. >> Last question for you, Susan. So, have you been able to leverage the success of Composer to basically expand into more applications in the Salesforce suite with Conga or other, to actually get your adoption up, and now start to add more and more applications? >> Yeah, that's a great question, Jeff, and certainly Composer was that early-adoption product that was such an easy sell, it had win-win written over it in capital letters, everybody really got it right away. "We're buying this, we're doing this." And then over the years, Conga in its development life cycle put out a couple other game-changing products that we also have, we have their Action Grid product, and their contract solution. >> Was that as easy of a sell? >> Yes. >> Okay. (laughs) >> Well, it wasn't IT organizations selling solution on business, business is saying, "We want a quoting platform, and we need something better than standard Salesforce." So, we started looking at what is now CPQ, but it was called Steelwork at the time, and then we needed to solve for the contract life cycle management part of that, and a contract product didn't even exist at the time. And we were looking at other solutions, and we were trying to make something work, and we learned about the contract product through a Connect event that a colleague of mine attended, and came back from that event, and just said "Sue, you've got to stop everything you're doing, you've got to go talk to Pete Castro at Conga, and you have to see this contract tool. Because I know we're almost at the end of this project, but literally you're going to rip out everything that we did before and you're going to want to do this." So guess what we did? We did it! >> Will, you can't let this one off your hip, I'm telling you. She's awesome. >> It was a tough timeline and that was part of the promise that we needed to hear back when we went to the table, was we can't miss our launch. >> Yeah, yeah. >> To do this pivot and switch and can we do it? >> But that's easy compared to getting sales people to change behavior, timelines are one thing, but if you got people to actually use the tool the way the tool is supposed to be used, then the ancillary benefits are tremendous. Thank you for sharing that story with us, Sue. >> You're very welcome, Jeff. We do have the Action Grid product, but I'm not the expert in that space, but I've seen some amazing things. >> You've got the sales people using Salesforce on a weekly basis, plant the flag and call it enough. Come on now! All right, so thanks again. He's Will, she's Sue, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCube for Conga Connect West at Salesforce Dreamforce in San Francisco, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Nice, France, it's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT Conference 2017 Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE live coverage of Nutanix .NEXT Conference in Nice, France. Happy to welcome to the program a first time guest, Daniele Mancuso who's fresh off the keynote stage. The Director of Innovation and Engineering at TI Sparkle. According to your website, TI Sparkle's the world's communication platform, so thank you so much for joining me. >> Thank you. >> So for those of us that aren't familiar, give us a little bit of outline of the company first. >> Yeah, so TI Sparkle is a fully-owned company belonging to Telecom Italia Group. Spinoff by the mother company back in 2003 with a mission to develop wholesale and corporate multinational retail and enterprise business abroad. 37 countries present office. 125 pubs all around the world that becomes around 1000 if we consider also the partnership with other operators. Hundreds of thousands of kilometers of fiber optics spreads between southeast Asia to Europe to North America and also South America via private backbones via [Inaudible] cable in consortia bilateral. In the top rank for IP transit with our Seabone Backbone, we are number 7 in the world and I think number 9 at the moment for voice in terms of minutes exchanged with international carriers. >> And so, innovation and engineering, what's under your purview, what's the relationship with kind of the IT Department? >> Basically, I am a peer within a division called ICT Engineering. I am a peer with IT responsible. Her role is basically to develop the new digital OSS and BSS of the company as well as the, let's call it, East/West API for the internet working with other peer operators. My role is instead to make this world speaking with the network elements, the network domains. The cloud domains, all the infrastructure. We are undergoing a severe transformation altogether because things much be very much synchronized in this new crazy world that is accelerating day by day. >> Yeah, I follow Telecom. A lot of my careers I worked for one of the companies that spun out of AT&T back in the US, so many companies talk about digital disruption. Digital has had a huge impact on telecom. You know, transformation, you talk about fiber roll outs used to be. I remember in the 90's it was like, oh, we're going to have infinite band width, and you know, prices are going to go there. >> The bubble. >> Things like that, so what are some of the key drivers, you know, what's changing in your business, the stresses and opportunities? >> Well, we need to realize in two part rationale, One is the wholesale business in which we were a pioneer, we are still having a severe, big role in the market But the issues is that wholesale is starting not to pay anymore. We face a severe, dramatic price decline year over year and therefore, in order to get sustainability of the company, you need to start turning the bar in a strong way toward the enterprises because it's there that is the money. So, this doesn't mean that of course you go out from the wholesale. We are a wholesale player. Our strategic plan involves us to consolidate and to reach the offering of wholesale services. As well as developing the new services focused for the enterprises, therefore with high capability of execution, very strong and fast time to market and enriched with a plethora of plugins that make the customer feeling the Sparkle Experience, as we call it. Most of the actions of which we are active at the moment, are the new dynamic services that are provided as part of the Metro Internet Forum, therefore the on demand paradigm, new connectivity, connectivity towards the cloud platforms, connectivity and reach by cloud experience. In order to reach these targets, you need to abandon a little bit the concept of network infrastructure. You need to scale it up. You need to softwareize it. You need to make it closer to IT. And at the same time, IT needs to come closer to the network And the two need to interwork together in an orchestrated way. This is the new world. The fashionite work, orchestration. In reality we like to speak more of choreography because orchestration is something that we see just residing within the company. Meaning, if you think an orchestra director is making all the instruments, all the artists that are within the company to play in a harmonized way, but in reality we want to export towards our customer this experience, and therefore we see it more as a ballet. So the orchestration is the baseline, but in reality we want the customer to feel embraced by what Sparkle can offer to him. >> Alright, so connect the dots for us as to where Nutanix came into it, how that discussion started and what you're using with them. >> So, this let's say paradigm of the digital transformation at Sparkle started around 2 years ago. We stopped one moment and said, okay, what should we do? How can we do it? How can we embrace it? Of course there are a lot of issues that are related to business processes, organization skills, but also the technologies a fundamental driver and these are most important, so, we started to design a new data center initially for our internal purpose, and we decided that in this data center, all new technology, all new software driven capabilities of the company should be deployed, but if you see the numbers of Sparkle, Sparkle is a lean and clean company. We have just 700 people, despite a global presence and so we cannot approach the transformation using the old paradigm of the best of breed, which is a traditional way of approaching things for tech providers. We instead decided to go completely to a new world. We started to do strong analysis on IPEX convergence and we came to term with Nutanix. Finally the new data center for works on all unit application is based on Nutanix notes and we forced all our vendors to certify their application on Acropolis so everything is AHVA based. And when we say everything, we're speaking about applications like Voice over IP Monitoring probes, we're speaking about lifecycle service orchestrator, we're speaking about Network Domains Orchestrator, cloud automation and brokerage platform, everything is running on Nutanix on this huge cluster with different nodes that are, more or less, powerful depending which application we been offered. But the main driver there is easier views, predictability, easy capacity management, everything runs in a very orchestrated and simple way. >> So, you know, relatively lean organization, simplicity is something we talk about, kind of, base hyper converged. I have to imagine one of the reasons you looked at HCI and is that way Nutanix is the one that you chose? >> Yeah. Absolutely. Those are fundamental features for us and in the development that we are doing with Nutanix, we are working very close with their engineering to develop also new feature that our customized for our solutions, we see that at the moment they are a perfect fir for our working model. They are also very fast company in developing things. Agile development. They are kind of having some predictability of what customer needs in future. Back at the keynote a few minutes ago, we were discussing about the usage of Nutanix for arranging public cloud environments, we just said that HV needs a further step of maturation, but Sunile was immediately coming out with Microsoft implementation and multi features that, in our opinion, were the small missing tip to complete HV as a complete cloud solution, so we are going there, also, this is our direction. >> Yeah, so absolutely, in your keynote you spoke a lot of HV, getting certified on all the platforms, want to talk about the cloud strategy, what are you using from Nutanix, are you, do public clouds fit into your picture? Kind of paint us your cloud strategy. >> So, let's always remind that we are a telecom. Are we going to compete with the big guys? It's not in our court. It's not in our interest and it's not possible for ISP. >> Let me ask, there's lots of telecoms that tried and failed >> Yeah, we're not even trying we're not even trying. In a telecom like us, that basically does not have a real captive market, we are operating abroad, so theoretically, we are the small guy that is going to face the incumbent in the market. But we have regions in which we have a consolidated presence especially in Europe, and we have data centers In Italy, Greece and Turkey. These data centers were traditionally addressing co-location business both for [Inaudible] and enterprises. So we decided when, the direction was, let's focus on enterprise to start the cloud journey but focusing initially on those markets. Again, we started with the best of breed approach, because this is what is in the telco court. The telco, needs to provide a service with a guaranteed SLA with an infinite number of 9 behind it. So at the beginning the first choice is okay, let's choose and let's pick the best pieces from each technology. It works. You arrange the solution. The problem is that you need to operate in the service. And when you create a cloud infrastructure with the best of breed approach, but you want to maintain lean and clean operations, then it's becoming complicated because you need to have a plethora, a bunch of specialists for each technology that you are going to implement. Meaning that you have storage specialists, storage network specialists, backup specialists, it cannot work like this. If you don't have the ability to scale globally, you will never be able to get sustainability there. So, in our cloud 2.0 strategy, which we are started already to apply from last year, Nutanix came to help because basically we did the analysis, we did several proof of concepts and we found out that we can get the same SLA, the same predictability, the same, or even better quality of service to our customer but using something that first of all is manageable by generalist IT skilled people, you can simply expand by scaling more bricks and at the end of the day, it's also more cost effective in terms of ratio between [Inaudible] You don't have [Inaudible] of optics. You have only one player to speak, fight, negotiate but finally get results. So that is the current scenario. On the cloud, as I said, we are still visphere shop, but we are starting already to move to HV, especially after this announcement of Microsoft implementation coming through. What is our future in cloud? We are going to address a transformation of our pubs all around the world. They will essentially become micro data centers from which we can offer data proximity, data locality to customers. Especially taking into consideration the GDPR entering from next year on world, I expect that many customers will feel a little it more relaxed and to disperse their data on centralized data centers without their having control of where really the data stays. So, we are starting also with Nutanix very small and compact solution that we can install in one of our cabinets in the pubs. And this will come also with the strategy of integrating the services with network vitralization solid balancing firewall, everything residing on the same stack. And SD1. In this way, we are quite confident that we can for sure leverage on our existing customer bases but also try to attract more customers that at the moment are not interconnected to our network via local loops. Simply using the internet as a new means of communication. >> Alright, so Daniele, lot of pieces here, just a final, get a brief statement from you, looked like you're looking at Nutanix, you know, they would call it kind of the core, their cloud, even the Edge, starting there, Why Nutanix? >> We have done some analysis, we have done a few proof of concepts also with competitors or with former competitors, let's say. What we really missed in our opinion, was the comprehensive vision. We understood from Nutanix, I mean, apart the numbers of performances, that somehow you can also get with other solutions, but what was missing in the others was that focus, the strategy, the vision and the certainty of the target they wanted to get. Speaking with Sunil, speaking with Benny Hill, speaking with all the guys, we see that they have a strong vision of where they want to be in a couple of years from now, and we have seen that they have a high capacity of execution and fast. And we basically have the same targets, we want to get the same achievements, so for us, it is a very reliable partner to work with in the next few years. >> Alright, well Daniele Mancuso, really appreciate you joining us. We know Nutanix always looks for the customers that are helping to move that digital transformation, be a partner with them. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from the acropolis in Nice, France. I'm Stu Miniman, you're watching theCUBE.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering Interconnect 2017, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for the CUBE's coverage of Interconnect 2017. This is three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Stay with us for the entire event. This is day two. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Dave Vellante and Esques' Willie Tejada, who's the IBM chief developer advocate at IBM. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you, guys. I'm really pleased to be here. >> So, love to have you on because all we do is talk about developers and what's in it for them, who's doing what, who's got the better cloud, who's enterprise ready, all that good stuff, commentating. But I love Ginny Rometty's conversation today because we just had Google Next, covered Amazon events, all the cloud events, and the thing that's been on our agenda, we've been really looking at this, is cloud readiness in the enterprise. And this is really kind of fundamental, what she was talking about, enterprise strong, data first, cognitive to the core, which kind of is their three pillars, but this is the, where the action is right now. >> Yeah you know for developers that's exactly true. You know, what you outlined is really this idea of basically there's three kind of core architectures, right? It's cloud, number one, followed by data layered on top of that, and essentially AIR cognitive on top. And what that means actually for the developer communities is that there's a new set of skill sets that are probably moving faster than we have ever seen before, right? And a lot of it's actually driven by this explosion of data, and so um, one of the things that we think that there's going to be a huge shortage of and there is a huge shortage of, is data scientists and cognitive developers. Because in those layers, what we've seen is that more and more, you operate on a data first model and by that, by just that definition, what you need to know about data is pushing towards a practitioner level of data scientists and the reality is that we think that type of core skill sets going to be needed across all of the developer communities. >> So take a minute to describe what will define a cognitive developer >> Tajeda: Sure, >> And what that, and the nuance behind it, because obviously the developers are doing really cool creative things, and then you've got the heart under the hood, production work loads and IT so where is the cognitive developer fit in those spectrums and what is the core definition from your standpoint? >> Yeah you know, the cognitive developer really is a person who's actually participating in actually the generation of a system that's fully cognitive, so you know, adding a cognitive feature is one thing, but actually building a full cognitive system is something different. You know if I use a comparison, think about how some of these roles in big data came about big data came, but we didn't have things like a data scientist, we didn't have a data engineer, and it kind of came after the fact the roles that were actually defined. Now we're onto these new cognitive systems where everything from, you have to train the system you have to have explicit knowledge of what the APIs actually do and you have to have infrastructure that actually curates data that continues this training along those lines. So you know the cognitive developers, really one that's participating in that particular ecosystem now what's really important though about that is they are usually programming in the language that their usually programming in. Whether it be Java, data scientists are using r or they're using Python, but the reality is that a cognitive developer's is that one that's applying those cognitive properties to their system that they're developing. >> So this is interesting, you mentioned the cognitive develop new tools and stuff, but there's some really good trends out there that are, that's the wind at the back of the developer right now. Cloud native is a booming trend that's actually phenomenal, you're seeing container madness continue, you've got micro services, all with kubernetes under the hood so there's some cool exciting things in the trend lines, can you unpack that for us and what this means to the developers, how does it impact their world? I mean we hear composability, lego blocks most developers know API economy is here, but now you've got these new tail winds, these new trends, >> Tajeda: Yep >> What's the, what are they, add to at, what's the impact to the developer? >> Well we talked about the new container service based on kubernetes that's allowing us to actually build to tremendous scale, and really simplify that type of development actually when you're doing native cloud development. You know, probably the most important things for developers is just accessibility of all these pieces, of course it's driven by open source, but you know if you want to learn these technologies if you want to participate and experiment with these technologies, they've never been more available than they actually are today. >> Vellante: So if I may, so Tanmay is a good example of a cognitive developer >> Absolutely. >> He's all cloud native, he's all cognitive, >> Nice shout out from the CEO today >> Yeah. >> He's also an algoithmist, you know self declared algorithmist, >> I can't even say that, >> Okay so here's Tanmay, he's never going to know anything else, right? But now, of you're a sort of mainstream developer, what do you do, you know? Where do you get the skills, what do you recommend that that individual does, and how do they get up the ramp? >> So you know, lots of times as you know the developer's learnings is not like kind of a linear pattern, right? They go to blogs basically they go and pull basic a library for them to >> Vellante: They figure it out. >> Along those lines, they go to a meet up or a hack from that stand point that's based on cognitive development and you know, so they should just go about what they normally do kind of along those lines, and then you know I think basically there's am advancement because ultimately we're publishing these things called journeys, which are really kind of use cases in the cognitive based environment so as an example, we might publish a journey on a cognitive retail chat bot, and it will combine a variety of these micro services that Watson's actually built on but give them exploration as to how they use the chat bot, how they use a service called discovery, and how they use persistence basically so that essentially they can learn from the data that they actually have and then ultimately if what they want to do is get deeper into it, there's organizations that we partner with where we give them cognitive curricullum that allows them to experience these pieces like top coder you can go on and do a cognitive challenge, right on top coder or you can go to a a cognitive course designed by galvanized one of our partners in relation to skills development. >> So that's interesting about that journey, so when you think about big data we talked about big data before, the sort of point at which at a company like IBM would engage in that journey is somebody who's exploring and maybe kicking the tires a little bit or somebody at a data warehouse that was like killing them, right? Where is, obviously there's a part of that in the cognitive world which is experimental >> Tajeda: Yep >> Is there a sort of analog to the data warehouse sort of disaffection if you will. >> Yeah, you know one of the things that we spend a lot of time on is that every organization that's going to build a cognitive system is looking for cognitive developers and data scientists, you know so essentially, >> Furrier: It's across all industries by the way, >> Absolutely >> Cyber securities to, >> Absolutely so you know, one of the key pieces is what kind of tools do you actually give that data scientist, to mess around with that data set, we provide something called a data science experience, and the idea there is essentially how do you give them an environment that allows them essentially to look into the data very quickly actually have these sets, and really kind of explore the data in a way that they never were capable of actually doing that, you know, those are the types of things that we're actually trying to that a data scientist, so that you can bridge over if you were a data engineer, or you're a business analyst, and you're looking to actually get into data science, you can actually play with some of these big data sets and actually explore what things you can do. >> Willie, I couldn't agree with you more on the whole, how developers learn it's really not a course ware online and the fiscal classroom, maybe they're offering it in college but, it's the practitional world of non linear learning through experience and these journeys are super valuable, and just for a tactical question, where do they find the journeys, or URL? >> What you'll find basically, come April first, we're going to launch a number of them, on developer.ibm.com/accelerate so they'll be focused on several different categories, number one will be just developing in the cloud cloud native, what's a journeys basically that they're kind of like common set ups that you actually need, we'll do, next one's on cognitive analytics where you pull together a set of services along those lines, and as you heard Ginny talk about, you know it's really important that a cloud have knowledge about a domain or an industry and so we'll create some journeys that are actually very industry specific, you know we announced, >> Furrier: Like they're like templates bascially, >> They are, >> People jump start it, not so much a reference implementation, >> Exactly, >> You know what I'm saying, the old days >> But you know, what it's all about is you mentioned this non linear journey that developers don't actually learn fundamentally they have a core thing that they're trying to get actually get done which is, get you help me get my stuff done faster, right? And fundamentally, when you talk about cognitive or data science, we're trying to actually deliver them tool sets or examples that do that. >> So I now got to go to the next level with that question, because it's first of all it's awesome, now how do you intersect that with community? Because now, that's super important because and you might want to take a minute to just do a plug for IBM in terms of the open source goodness you guys are doing because you guys do a great job with open source. >> Tajeda: You know we just hosted a very large, what we believe is, one of the largest open tech meet ups, right before basically InterConnect started, and we had one of the ballrooms actually full, and we talked about our new service we had Jim Basic from the Linux Foundation actually come, he stated a stat which was really interesting in open source which IBM is a large contributor to, that I think the stat that he said was Linux basically has a project now, there's 10,800 new lines of code and 1,800 lines of code that are modified every day, right? >> Furrier: Yeah, >> And that's the community. >> And that's only going to get faster, if you think about like just, the physical media like ssds, in memory, which spark the kernal, >> Vellante: The quantum, >> Linux is going evolve in a radical and killer way I mean, this is just the beginning. >> And to your point about the community, when you think about that advancement at the pace by which basically that software's actually going to move, there's not one organization that can outpace that type of community in the way they actually do it, it doesn't matter what the services actually are so, >> Well the other interesting thing is the impact on human kind, you heard Benny Hoff and Ginny talking about this morning and they were both really emphasizing machine augmented, right? But, it's like a Pac Man device, I mean there's so much human interaction that's being automated today, >> Tajeda: Yeah, abslutely, >> So, and I know IBM obviously big believer in augmentation, but it's hard to predict what things human's are going to be do, be able to do that machine's can't do, any insight on that? >> Yeah you know, I think, we like to use the word cognitive assisted, So when you think about it, I'll give one example, let's say for example in the medical profession, so, if you look at it, in the healthcare industry, about 90 percent of the data in there is not structured data, right? It's all unstructured data, a lot of it is images, so if you take a look at someone basically that's in oncology work taking a look at things like melanoma, the amount of time I think the data set said the amount of time he needed to watch or get trained on to look at all the new papers that were ever published, was probably three weeks basically, if he's thinking about that in a month. The amount of time that that person allocates to actually keeping up with all these particular trade journals is a few hours a week, and so he's constantly behind, this where something like a watson enabled, or a cognitive enabled type of application can help him actually keep up to date with all the new findings and research papers in his particular field, and do something like ingest millions of documents and understand them but actually apply that to his work, so you know what you find is doctors actually utilizing a cognitive assistant powered by Watson to help him do a better diagnosis. >> Will you're an advocate for the chief developer advocate for IBM, talk about for the last couple minutes we have, what's on your plan, we just saw the news yesterday, the 10 million dollar investment to get education out there and bring this cognitive developer category, kind of lift that up and, with Galvanize which we've supported some of those signature moment events with the Cube, where are you going to be out in the field, what's some of your go to market activities how you going to do this, and then talk about the patterns you've seen in the developer make up. >> Yeah, >> Just over the past year, what's changed, what's notable? >> Yeah, so you know what, you know some of the things that we're actually doing is number one, we're we're taking up very large presence in probably nine cities around the world with a very big emphasis on building on data science and cognitive developers, so you know, there's kind of the usual suspects, the San Franciscos, the New Yorks, the Tokyos, the Londons, some presence in Sao Paulo, we're doing Beijing, we recently basically announced a partnership of how we can actually get presence actually there and through that, we're looking actually to bring, basically this presence into those communities, so this idea that we help, actually put forth these journeys but in many cases actually be right in the presence of things, we have, in some cases we have some programs that we're actually spinning up that are all about essentially how we actually do things like IOT Thursdays, or Cognitive Tuesdays where they can actually see actual experts in those particular areas, and just come do office assignments, >> Furrier: Do Throwback Thursday, you hack on a mainframe >> Tajeda: That's it! (laughter) >> That's what they're actually looking at from that standpoint so, so yeah a lot of this stuff basically is just actually getting to some of those folks in a very very intimate way, and like you said actually kind of populating these folks where kind of where they are, and really what that's all about is actually getting the tools and tool sets in the communities that they find and the peer learning that they do, which is real, >> Furrier: Well we'll see you at some of the Galvanize events you guys got goin on we'll certainly see you at Dockercon we got a lot of Cube line ups, for this Spring tour, and the Fall ton of developer activity, the Cloud Native stuff is really an intersection point with big data colliding with cloud IOT and AI and this cognitive is just an accelerant, >> Tajeda: Absolutely, absolutely >> For the cloud, the perfect storm is a good opportunity. >> There's never been more available time in terms of technology, and the technology never moved as fast, >> I was just saying to Tanmay when he was on yesterday, "I wish I could be 13 again", coding is so much more fun now than it was when we were doing it. Well great to have you on Willie, >> Hey thanks very much, it was actually very good visiting with you guys. >> Great insight, insight from the chief developer advocate here at IBM, I'm John Furrier, Steve Vellante stay with us for more coverage, great interviews all day today, and tomorrow, here live in Las Vegas, we'll be right back.