>>Okay. We're back here at the cube. We're in the middle of all the action at mobile world. Cause we're in cloud city, uh, physically in onset here, we got the virtual space. People are watching remotely. We do a remote interviews, but now we're in person with. Who's the transformational leader, head of innovation in his previous Zane telecom, 50 million customers, big projects. You've seen it all, you know, you know all about the operators and you know about innovation. Those are two great topics that we're going to talk about. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So we were talking about on the open, uh, with Chloe this morning about the difference between building and operating and operators. Technically it's in the definition of running large networks, but now the change is here. You've got cloud scale, you've got edge developing with 5g, open, ran for standardization and off the shelf equipment that will give more infrastructure surface area, which will bring more innovation. A lot of change, a lot of build-out. This is a mindset change you want to it's like war time, peace time. It's not a mature market. It's a growing turbulent opportunity and the trillions of dollars at stake. And, um, >>I, I believe that we as humans on anything that we do so much of our learning comes from doing, and whatever you do is what you learn. So what have we, as an operator's been doing, we have been buying things. So our learning has been on procurement, how to do a business casing, how to get approvals, but not necessarily how to really introduce something new to our customers. And what has, what has said to us as an industry is that all the innovation and there's been a lot of innovation on communication space has been done either by the handset people or has been done by the internet people, but not so much as some operators. So I think that's really something that you have to have to change, but you have to change what you learn. You have to change how you actually do it. >>It's interesting. You know, I'm very pro telecom, but people think I'm, I'm not because I tend to criticize and pontificate around the change. But if you look at the telecon, it's been a bunch of dumb pipes and that's been a good thing and it's been reliable. We've had great connectivity growth. The internet was stable during the pandemic. It literally saved people's lives and change things that we survived and it worked great. But now when you have applications and infrastructure as code, new opportunities are going to be forcing that change quicker. So it's not so much, it needs to radically change. It just needs to get more versatile, more >>Get on the >>Program. So if you look what has happened on other industries, WhatsApp, how the internet payers do it, how does apple do it? How does Google do it? How does Facebook do it? They are using these new technologies. They are using cloud first approaches. They are building huge scale and they able to innovate. So the way I'm looking at it, that you guys are an operator you need to get on the program. And it's not, it's not the question. Should I do it? Should I not do it? Question is how do you do it? It's not the question when you should do it, you should do it. Now, the question is, how do you do it? How do you get started? I think, no, I think >>You're exactly right. It's in the here and now we're going to have a exclusive Google news conference later in the day, but you've mentioned the cloud players. If you look at the success of say Android, Android is a great use case that I think might be something that you can look at to the telecom industry and say, Hmm, how open source software changed the handset business? I think there's kind of a movement here in the telco space. And this ecosystem where you hear open, you got the Linux foundation participated with the software group for Iran. You got other things happening with open gardens, not walled gardens. Interesting. What's your take on how the, the innovation from the software side might come in here because you want to preserve the legacy operational stability, but bringing in new >>For you to be able to do a new, you need to have those software skills, because that's how the new things happen. You have to build them, you have to program them. But then the, then the issue is that your organization, most likely something good for this. So you don't have the designers. You don't have the software engineers, you don't have, uh, how to do customer experience, how to do, how to do the planning. You don't have it. So then the, then the challenge is how are you going to do that? And I'm a big saver off of operators starting to build some of the internal teams, have them separate teams and have them start to trial on these things. Give don't be so hard on yourself, allow yourself to try and try. Some things, allow yourself to fail. Don't make them huge programs because then the failure becomes a huge issue also. And then once you learn, once you know how to do it, then scale it up. But yes, these new skills software, you have to do it. And open is very well. >>You know, we were talking yesterday about this new world where feature creep used to be a bad thing. But now with cloud scale, you can develop rapid features quickly and get data and then abandon those things quickly. The time to do that is now part of the development process. So as software changes, you're starting to see the human resources configurations, where teams are formed differently. What's your take on this? Because end to end workloads can have multiple layers on an SRE, an operator, a developer, and a UX person, all on one team. I >>Agree. And I think that, and this is not something we have to invent as a telecom industry. Let's just go look at what the software guys are doing, right? So for decades, over the better part of a decade, there have been having HR teams. They're having the actual, working more working on sprains. All the tools already exist. All it's, it's all available for us. So all we have to do is just look at how they are doing that and start to use some of those practices and on our business. And by the way, we have been trying, this is not very good at it because we tend to kind of take it to the previous way of doing patients. And then we get ourselves into trouble. You know, >>It's the classic old playbook. We're good at procuring things. We know how to get that email, checking the list, done cost efficiency, drive more revenue chip away at it, moved the ball down the field slowly. Now the new playbook is agility, software economics, software playbook. So I have to ask you on, on that piece of it, how do you think the operators are psychologically right now? Are they, are they have a frog in boiling water? Do they know what's happening? Are they open to it? Or they just need more repetition? What's the psychology of the, with the progress and the progress bar of the operators relative to the trends. >>I think they might be a little bit desperate, right? So also telecom people. I like to think they're relatively smart people. They are not dummies. They know what they are doing, but th there's 30 years of history, maybe more and there's large organizations, maybe thousands of people who are, who are, who they have to work with. So somehow you have to have to figure out how do you get these new skills? And, and we're getting older. Also. I was in 1995, working for telecom. TSM standard loans. We were young at that point. I'm not young anymore. >>So this is your whole experience. I appreciate that. Well, >>I mean, old is good because now if you look at, I mean, I would, again, not to bring up ageism, but um, young, young guns, they never really loaded a Linux operating system before they never really wired splice cable. Um, and also there's also the systems thinking. And I think one of the things that's coming out of this show, that's clear to us here at the cube is if you're a systems thinker you tend to do well because the edge Springs distributed computing to the table. So, you know, I think this experience collision with the young talent. Yeah. >>And I had a, a program where I actively wanted to bring new talent into the organization. We didn't want to hire it. As people have five to 10 years of working experience. Now let's give us some guys fresh out of the college. It's fine. We have plenty of telecom knowledge. We can teach them no issues, but we need some of the newer more, more open-minded approaches to what we can do. It's >>Funny, mark Zuckerberg said once years ago, it's a young man's game, a young person's game. And we were all like, yeah, screw you. But the point was is that now he looked at all the best players. Amazon has Gosling over there. A lot of these pioneers in the computing industry and the telecom industry are now leaders on the new architecture because there's an architectural change over, but it's not a rip and replace. It's a net abstraction. So it's not like it's going away. So the skills are there. So how do you talk about that? Because this is the big, an untold story, this new arc and architectural shift or tweak, uh, >>On architecture side. I think we, as an operators, we are really focused on building the networks and our networks started site. It's all about standard, uh, days. And it's all about buying buying boxes. And unfortunately, a lot of our leaders are then coming, growing up on that thinking. So then they trying to do the same thing on software side and it just doesn't work. So software is a totally different animal. So I think you need to really have a different mindset, different way of looking at that. When you start to get on the software side of business and how do you do your architectures? You need to have this flexibility. TSMA is a standard that evolves in a 10 year cycle. Your software architecture can evolve and 10, 10 year cycle. It has to move faster than that >>While you've used it to our ears. You're definitely come back on the cube. We're going to have you back because this is the most important story in this industry is the software paradigm. Um, and our minutes that we have left, why have you here, what do you think of the show? Mobile world Congress, uh, speeds and feeds radios boxes. Now you got chips software. What does this show turning into? What is this about? >>I think it's amazing to start to see this year. What, because of the COVID a lot of the old players are not here. So suddenly that space has been filled more of a newer company. It's different kinds of things. And I think that's really important for this conference. I think it's really important for the industry and it's really good for all of us. It's nice to see something, something new, something, something else, >>Another team of >>Edge brings up education, health care, societal change, cyber defenses, peace and challenges >>With that. Also security and how to control. And yeah, I >>Mean, a lot of people were watching people participating so well. Great to have you on great expertise and congratulations on your new role as a transformation leader in Washington, DC. And again, Nate, we need you there. So did you get up there on the hill and help educate some of those, uh, leaders that need to write the new laws? Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Okay. We are here in the cube. We're breaking down all the action here at the middle of cloud city. I'm John from the cube. David lump is on assignment. I'm gonna send it back to the studio, Adam.

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage here for re-invent 2020 Amazon web services. I'm John for your host with the cube. We are the cube virtual. Normally we're in person this year. We're remote because of the pandemic. It's a virtual event on both sides. Got a great guest here. Derek did a Scala vice-president of IOT at AWS. Um, Derek, did I get the name right last year? I think I got it right. Did a scholar, >>You still did a good ride last year and this year. It's exactly it's Greek. >>Great to see you. Um, keep alumni and last year's talk was phenomenal. Really a precursor to what you, you did this year and your keynote leadership session, which you just came off of. Um, really kind of extending the conversation around new news and announcements around what's going on in the complex system. That is the edge and or IOT, some really awesome announcements. So give us a quick overview of, you know, what was the main theme of the keynote. And then I got some specific questions on the news. >>Uh, so the main theme was connected. They transform tomorrow. And I think the idea was that, um, in order to do complex IOT solutions, um, which, which they are, as you said, complex systems you need in principle three different types of elements, software that runs on devices that you connect then services that you have in the cloud that you manage all of the devices and then, uh, technology like services again in the cloud that can make sense of data, um, so that you can do your business logic. And what I was walking the audience through was what is IOT? What are the use cases that we empower today? And then of course I have a bunch of, uh, new launches actually 19 launched new 19 very significant features at reinvent this this morning about what else can you do? And some of them hopefully we'll talk about today. >>Well, we don't have all that time ago to check out for the folks watching, go to the Amazon re-invent site, log in and watch the replays playing multiple times in different time zones and it's, and it's on demand. The thing that got me was impressive to me, I loved your talk. And one of the key news was this I, uh, AWS IOT core for low Rowan, which is fully managed service on AWS. One of the highlights of the, of the presentation. So this is interesting, right? So it's all this a whole nother way. It's kind of a disconnected kind of system. Then you've got fleet as well. You announced, but to what is a low Rawan, can you explain what that is? >>Ryan stands for long range wide area network, and it's a type of connectivity standard, um, which uses very little energy on devices. So think about your own level cellular or wifi, which are connectivity standards. Some of them are for high throughput, but if you have low data rates like for sensors and you want to have those sensors, um, having a lifespan of let's send 10 years for the same battery, then you need very specific standards. Don't require a lot of compute and Laura ran as one of those standards. And the other thing is as long range. So that means you can put sensors pretty far away. Um, you penetrates also concrete or, uh, normally basements, which you counted differently. So if you think about asset tracking or a large scale monitoring off of sensors, Laura van is the standard to go. It's also a similar technology that powers the sidewalk network for Amazon, which is a public offering that we have as well. And the announcement that we did is that we now have this technology fully integrated with AWS IOT core. So customers who want to spin up those Laurel when networks, they don't have to do it themselves. We do it for them. The only thing they need to do is just buy or acquire a specific gateway, which is also pre-certified in our device kind of. And every sensor that is Laura, when standard specific can immediately connect securely to the AWS IOT cloud. >>Okay. So two questions. One is use cases. What does this use for, and you mentioned long range, I'm assuming it's radio-frequency so there's a, uh, um, radio and design a battery power. I mean, how you drive those long rain signals and what are the use cases? I mean, it's just for like manufacturing, is it for like buildings? I mean, would it be, >>We'll use it for all of them? So I give you a great example. We had their compliance mate as one of our launch customers for one a Lang. And what they do is they put sensors in refrigeration units in restaurants, and they are typically agreeably big metal, shielded refrigeration units, and basements. And if you're trying to get what seller or 5g take your phone down in the basement, there's no reception anymore. But Laura ran because it's a low frequency. It can actually penetrate a concrete quite a bit. And because it sends very more data rates, because it only tells you the temperature instead of a streaming video and uses very little battery. So they can put the sensor in all of the refrigeration units and all of the rest ones. And you don't have to touch them for years to come. So that's, for example, one use case, or you want to asset tracking, you put those small little sensors, I don't know, on containers, on pallets and ship them all, all the country. So that's parts where you can more or less than how these assets. >>And so is like a base station. Is there an antenna? Is there a main antenna that goes for walls? It sounds like it's yeah. >>What'd you do your bite. What is called a LoRa LAN gateway? That is a gateway, which has, if you like, it's a mini base station that you can buy from multiple suppliers and partners of ours actually be pre-certified 13 of those with 13 different suppliers in our device, uh, catalog, and then you buy them and more or less, and then you just connect them directly to the internet because everything else, what we'll do, we'll just call this LoRa network server, which normally is the backend infrastructure runs. They're not in the AWS cloud. These gateways act as base stations. Think of them. It's like your wifi router in the home. It's then a LoRa gateway device, which then has a longer range than a wifi would have. And we don't talk about just a few meters used. So it's, it's much further along. I'd love to follow >>Up. I don't have a lot of time, but that was a fascinating announcement, really kind of core, uh, fleet hub and other one that got my attention. Um, this is managing IOT to AWS IOT devices from anywhere, from anywhere from any device. Give us quick tutorial on fleet hub, >>Really tough. So I would take coral, any managers, a lot of devices you have, as I said, more than half a billion devices now going, or end points as we call them through our service 70 months. And if you have so many devices, then you would like to understand, okay, is something going wrong? Is everything fine in order to do so? You can't just probe every single device who typically buy a, built an application that the motor shows you, this fleet management dashboards. And that's exactly what feed pump fleet have is with very little effort. Actually, an it administrator cannot click a button and it has these applications that everybody in the company can log in with their standard logins. And then they can see, okay, all the entire fleets, they see there's something wrong. It can identify issues and they can also do remediations like, okay, maybe reboot a device or make a firmware update or security tunnel into a more complicated device for troubleshooting. >>Awesome. And the other one, by the way, that's awesome. People love those dashboards. Sitewise edge software. This was interesting localizing data for developers to process their run visualization on a connected or disconnected scenario. This sounds really cool and relevant. What's the point? Yeah, >>Well Sitewise edge is for industrial customers. This is a really big deal. So imagine that you would like to optimize your main function. Um, our dedicated industrial services called Sightlines edge came to the gateway component, took all of the data out of the manufacturing plants into the cloud, where you could model them and you'd do cool stuff with it. Um, the problem is in very many of the scenarios, you don't want to sync all of the data to the cloud, or you can't send all of the data to the cloud. So customers were saying is okay, can I do all this good stuff that I can do in the cloud locally and DH even disconnected? And that's what we know. We launched the sideways. It's the same capabilities that you'd have in the cloud, which is not can run on gateways on outpost, on snow devices, which is data ingestion, data modeling, ETL metrics calculation. And you also have a dashboard application that we have in the cloud called side-by-side monitor. And the exact same application can run locally so that you can log in again, like with three tab locally in that URL. And you see what's actually happening with your equipment, all that it disconnected. >>Awesome. Great job there. Finally, the other one got my attention as James Gosling tweeted about the open source of green grass, which was awesome. He obviously he's a legend in the programming and systems world. Um, now works for AWS. You guys are getting all the great talent, um, Greengrass 2.0 at the edge. This is, uh, a new announcement. Take us through that. And obviously the open sourcing with Gosling involved pretty much >>Big deal. Oh yeah. So I don't know for everybody Greenglass alias besotted, reinvest, that's our runtime environment, which brings typical IOT core to the cloud from the cloud to the edge. It can be Lunda runtimes, including containers, including machine learning inferencing. And over the last few years, James and our team together, we were working actually to revamp this completely. It's a complete rewrite of the entire software that runs on the edge. It's no JVM based. It's not modular. And as you said, we just open-sourced it. So, um, there was an enormous effort into how can I modularize this because there are so many applications and sometimes you have a very powerful machine is what all the features together, or you have a much cheaper device where you said, Hey, you know what? I only want specific applications. And then how do you modularize this? And you also need a deployable at the edge of the past. You always needed the cloud in order to provision stuff. Now I can actually code and deploy all locally by doing that at scale. And of course, open sourcing. This is a pretty big deal because everybody can now inspect the code and you can extend it to whatever you would like it to ask. So >>What is someone going to do with the open source, given an example of some innovation, a bar raising activity app that someone could take with the, with the green grass open source, what would it be? What would you envision? >>So what you can do with green goes open source in the past. If you wanted to put it, for example, put on a very specific proprietary system and the past, we only shifted as binary code working from the next for example, but now I can see no one, I have a mix, so I have it a windows. So I want to have an Q and X on any type of operating system. And you can now have the code and therefore adopted yourself. You can also extend it if you'd like, because all of them, of course the short support is available. And then the modularization is that you can also build your own mind >>And it's an Apache license. So follows that >>Super easy. You can do whatever you like with a code, by the way, open sourcing, doesn't change anything to pricing when it's wherever. So you get the code, you do what you like with this Apache 2.0, not to be confounded. You have another open source, which is free. Artose, that's our real-time operating system. That's under the MIT license that they have. We also had some great news at reinvent. We have no long-term support for free, right? >>I think there's going to be a tsunami of innovation and creative thinking around the edge. Um, real quick, final comment edge is a complex system. One of the themes that reinvent this year is, you know, re re-imagined reinvent everything. Um, when you have complexity came in, complexity is the number one challenge that we're hearing from customers, your customers and people in the industry saying, we love it. It keeps getting better and better with AWS, but, you know, putting it behind the curtain of SAS and plot pass and it, I got to tame the complexity. What do you say to that? >>It's true, particularly in IOT, it's true because we need to somehow manage complexity from embedded software and hardware and fleet management. As we said, uh, clouds, capabilities, AI, it's really, really complex. If you try to muscle this all yourself. So that's why we try to integrate our offerings. I don't know whether you've realized we didn't announce any new services. All of our capabilities are part of what we have and trying to combine. So if you like, Sitewise edge is bringing sideways to the edge, but under the hood, it's using green grass in order to make the work freed up as well. Um, everything we've done in fleet hub is based on device management. Greenglass V2 itself is not under the hood using also device management for the fleet provisioning. So we try now to combine all of the dots, make it easier to access. And then as we set for this web applications, whether it's Sightlines monitor or from the top, you don't even have to be a developer anymore. You can more or less just directly access a dashboarding app and just see what's happening without that. You need to >>Turk exciting times, congratulations a lot more to dig into, um, tons of videos on demand on the re-invent site, of course, uh, comes to the cube and we got more coverage on siliconangle.com. Dirk. Thanks for your time. Congratulations. >>Can I just one thing which I would like to still denounce or people understand, communicate for everybody. If you go to amazon.com and look for AWS IOT, educate for $42, you can buy now a tiny little device. It's not about the device, it's about a curriculum. It shows you everybody can code. How do I use IOT? How easy it is and how do I do the invoice and the amount. So it's an awesome thing for students and everybody else who would like to understand how IOT works. So check it out@amazon.com. >>Okay. We'll get it out. Educate, check it out. Learn it's easy. Next level. Programming, complexity, Turk. Thanks for coming on. >>Appreciate it. I'm John >>Florio, host of the cube here. Eight hours coverage reinvent 20, 20 virtual. We are the cube virtual. Thanks for watching.

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners welcome back to Las Vegas everybody I'm Dave Villeneuve my co-host David Flair you want to the cube the leader in live tech coverage this is our third day of coverage at AWS reinvent 2018 our sixth year covering this event that keeps getting bigger and bigger Dave at 53,000 people amazing place is still jam we still barely have our voices 18 Cockroft is here he's a vice president of cloud architecture and strategy very well known in the industry q Balam thanks so much for coming back on thank you yeah it's the I've been to all of the reinvents we've been far as the customer and then we've been off of one but we watched remotely and hung on every word you know back when there wasn't a lot of information about a DMS now it's like too much information to process it's gonna take us months to sort through it all but at any rate it's it's a phenomenal opportunity for us to to learn to share to inspire folks and you do with some great work talk a little bit about you know some of the fun stuff you're working on and in your current role yeah I have a few different things I do one is one part of my role as I go around the world giving keynotes AWS summits but mostly I call it doing one of Ogle's impressions his deck and I get to presented around the world so we have to digest all of this stuff into a 90-minute deck that we can take to around the world that's a you know what do you leave out there's some it's it's harder and harder every year so that's a lot of fun but the team that I run for AWS I mean recruiting and running is around open-source right and we do we sponsor various events we members of various foundations we make contributions to projects and have been helping that by hiring people from the open-source communities into AWS to help help some of the edge over service teams with their launches of open-source related projects so what I've got what's been happening this year is had like a hundred blog posts related to open source lots of tweets lots of activity lots of events like ask on all things open in coupe car so be there in a couple of weeks exciting to you guys probably again but this week there are a few of the launches where we got quite deeply involved we did a blog posts on the open source blog most at the same time as Jeff fires okay here's the service and here's the open source part of it this is how you contribute and this is what's going on so we've had some fun with that so but it was it two years ago when we first met you've just been on the job for about a month about that particular time and you laid out what you wanted to do in terms of from your previous experience about how you wanted to turn AWS into a an open-source contributor how would you rate yourself in two years I think we've made some good progress really made me a AWS was making contributions to open source but had nobody talking about it and nobody know it was nobody's job to go out and explain what we were doing so that what part of the problem two years ago it was actually more happening so most people knew about but we were just not telling the story and it said it wasn't coming across well and the culture and the culture I mean it was spotty like some parts of AWS were doing a lot of open source other parts we're kind of not really seeing it as a priority so by talking a lot more about it we kind of get a more uniform acceptance across AWC huge organized just there but Amazon as a whole we are actually telling that story the story a much broader story than just AWS and be able to bring that and get everyone go oh this i see everyone doing it so i should be doing that so it helps create the the the leadership for more teams to follow and what we've seen in with you know really the first year building the team the last year kind of getting the content flowing and getting the processes kind of working to get all the all of the different events and blog posts and out the outbound part grips getting increasing number of contributions and launches so now Corrado was a few weeks ago so it you need us launch but that was that was an example that was it's a lot a lot happened from my team from Aaron Gupta my team his a Java champion he used to be at Sun he was a worked at Red Hat on J bar so he's like he knows everybody in Java has great credibility across the Java community and he said we should launch this product in Belgium at like midnight or so you know West Coast time and let's fly in James Gosling and like to a secret like get him on stage without anyone knowing he's gonna do it and do the introduction so it's like this totally crazy idea and it came off beautifully and we even had the the you know the Oracle Java people saying nice things about it the contributions to open JDK just just a really nice example of figuring it out all that get everybody on board get everything done right and then say here's something that matters to the community that we can contribute it'll show up on the rooftop complete thanks the star power thing but mincing James to do it was a right around a lot of credit for that that particular launch but you know this is the kind of people I have on my team and we're like we're pulling them in and pointing them at okay can you help this team figure out how to take this open-source project to market now I mean that was a major contribution to the open-source community and it was just in time wasn't it but another slight view would might be that you and Oracle should have been working this out until not leaving it until the last minute but I mean we were doing this work anyway right okay we're effectively self-supporting our own version of Java or internally we were getting better performance and better sooner bug fixes on open JDK so it made a decision to just move to the open JDK dream and we were just unhooking our internal use of the of the other the other options we have home mix you know a very large organization along for you acquire lots of different versions and flavors of Java you notice this one language so we like clean it up let's get JDK 8 and 10 we're self supporting it and then we announce to our cave will support our Amazon Linux version right and the final step was like the customers were saying please just like supportive on my laptop and anywhere else I need it and the thing we didn't announce then we didn't make a big thing out and arm support we didn't we kind of it was in there by default we didn't talk about it because the ARM chips came out this week so hey and part of it was also have exactly the same version of Java now on all of the Amazon Linux is even the the Intel AMD and arm so that helps the compatibility for people kind of going well it's a different processor architectures ties together so it was all part of the thinking if you didn't want to tip your hand on the announcement this young is right ok so I think sometimes a AWS is misunderstood partly from its own doing I mean you just mentioned you contribute a lot to open-source but you never talked about it generally when AWS doesn't have something to say they don't say a lot about it so others are left to you know make the narrative you come on you've now got an open-source agenda can you just sort of summarize what that motivation is and what the objectives are well we have you know lots of different pieces of this but you have service teams saying I'm gonna launch this product and there's an open source component to it can you help and sometimes that means I hire someone in my team to specialize in that area sometimes it's just our consulting with the team we may know connecting them to the open-source community so that's one piece of it is having that if you think about CN CF in particular cloud native computing foundation that's got lots of projects if you think about the AWS service teams no one team really owns the scope of CN CF but my team has that ownership for CN CF as a whole we have the board seat position and we say ok we have the serval as people over here we've got some entertaining things over here there's some Linux kernel virtualization bits here we can reach out to lots of different teams across AWS but act as a central point where you have something about open-source you want to talk about with with AWS or Amazon even as a whole you can come to us and we'll find the right people and we'll help you make those connections so part of it is acting as an on-ramp for the sort of buffer between the internal the external concerns of the communities there's somewhere to go and partly just getting contributions out there and what we could gain criticized for not making enough contributions well we've been making more and we're making more and we'll just keep making more contributions until people give credit for it and that's that's the if you're like what's the strategy contribute more and then tell people point at it and hope the people like what we did and take the input no it's the customer driven thing right we're gonna do what our customers ask us to do and their customer community focus on the things we want to do and we've been contributing to spinnaker the the Netflix OSS project we made some serious contributions to that in the this year firecracker myths which talk about that a bit and the Robo maker that those are all areas where we've been working with firecracker is particularly interesting isn't it I mean that's a major contribution of improving the performance and capability of those micro VMs yeah can you talk about that a little bit yeah it's the baby it's interesting because it's a piece of software pretty much no one will ever see your use it's the thing you run on the bare metal but lets you run your container Dee that lets you run your container on top right well it's deep down in the guts of the system there's this piece of code but we we kind of there's a few reasons we're using it particularly in production now with its supporting some of our production use of Fargate and lambda there in the middle it's not a hundred centraal out but there's a good chunk of the capacity running on it and that's where it turns out to be useful and just to cook how long we have to get into this but if you think about a customer running a lambda function we would put create a VM with that lambda function in it if they wanted a second lambda function we put it alongside that one no the customer comes and we start a new VM for them and we start a lambda function in that VMs take a while to start up so you have cancer pre-made some sitting there waiting but these are big VMs and we're putting lots of little functions in them what what firecracker lets you do is start a separate micro VM for every function and safely put all of the customers on one machine so you start packing them in it's a much more efficient way to run your capacity our utilization of those machines supporting lambda is vastly higher than having a machine with a bunch of empty space in it that we're trying to weight running for running for the customer so it's that efficiency is the thing and then the speed of starting a VM it's a very it's a very cut-down VM so it's 125 milliseconds with just to start the VM which is incredibly fast when you think hey give me a VM on ec2 it's you know they're in kinda like 30 seconds to a few minutes like I get 12 terabyte VM takes a little while to boot up but you don't have to pay for it till it finished including my good things about these huge machines right how about Robo maker can you talk a little bit about that and it's important so a rubber makers interesting on the open source blog which we posted on Slate on Sunday night early on Monday morning I did an interview with Brian Goerke who's the founder of the open robotics foundation and what we've done there is it's kind of an extension of sage maker if you think about that being AI if you've got these eight where I can deploy an AI model what is the AI model I want to do it wants to read something from the real world and modified the real word so it's a read from a camera or at some of the sensor and then control motors and servos and that's what Robo maker does it wraps the intelligence you can build with sage maker with the robotic operating system that has actually a library of actuators and a library of algorithms control algorithms you've got little brain in the middle and you've got a new robot that does something and we had the the Robo racer low racing car to which where all of these things come together to make an old toy race car that we can drive around tracks which is a whole other topic we get into but what interviewed Brian on what is the history of Rose the robotic operating system where did it come from you know what is the hard thing about running in it turns out the hard thing with Rose wasn't building the robots it was simulating the robots and the simulators quite a CPU intensive job it's graphics intensive you got this virtual world you're running and VR worlds are quite intensive and getting that installed and running was the hard part so what what what robot maker is is that as the service it's this simulator is called gazebo just a funny name so gazebo as a service is the actual service that effectively were charging for with a free tier so you can play with it and then we charge you for the sort of simulation units like how much computing time you're using when the rest of it is all you know cloud9 for the front end and deployment of fleets of data to fleets the robots and updating them and managing them but they're interesting thing is this is getting into like the people that the field of the first robotic thing is high schools high school robotic competitions they're interested yeah universities are interested in a university solar so we kind of it's not just for commercial production robots it's the whole training thing we're getting into STEM education if kids like playing with robots it's like Center and we're pulling all this in so now you can go home and take these like the latest most advanced AI algorithms that used to have to be doing a PhD at Stanford to be playing with and play with your kid you know over Christmas and see what you can come up with really simplifying the whole software development side of that when you look at the Dean came in competitions we're just awesome yeah all the kids they could have gravitate to the hardware cuz they can touch the software was really hard and and and this is gonna I think take a new level is particularly enough and it's all open source yeah you can go yes oh you've got this robot there no no I pointed them somebody who's complaining that we'd done it and no it was some proprietary robot thingy with the toy cars and I pointed them at the github URL it's that you can go build this thing it's all open source you can put anything else you want on it but the robot cars robot has rolls on it the robotic operating system H maker Robo maker all combined together and they're off running races and having all having fun now you guys are both Formula one fans yeah and you guys have been having some you know profile of Formula One folks here you got the little the mini vehicle riff on that really open source but I have another like thing I'm doing on the site it turns out the over the last year or so we started looking for opportunities to do sports sponsorship with a particular focus on Europe and the rest of the world we had a few US sports where they I don't know something with balls I like I like sports with wheels so about the middle of last year like this June we announced the deal with Formula One which is a multi-part deal part of the deal was just take them to the cloud that they have some data centers stuff they were running at a space and their data center is like no they wanted to do a technology refresh so for all the reasons that everyone else is moving to cloud we moved the sports core infrastructure to cloud over some number of years right so that's a process for starting and part of that is the archive of all Formula One races it's a treasure trove like 67 years of archive of everything they've got all the videos were digitizing it we're gonna figure out what to do what you know we've got to process it to label everything anyway so that's one thing and then we went turned up it we all turned up at Silverstone in the UK at that race it was the week after the announcement and that race we have a do as logos turning up on the screen because another piece was sponsorship so we start sponsoring the core video feed that Formula One uses to the world and that's 500 million fans watch Formula One so now 500 million fans for the next few years they're going to see a dope race logos on screen around the analytical insights of what is going on in the sport the odd rear tires are overheating you went round a corner this fast here's the pit stop strategy so we brand advertising associate with a high-technology sport and analytical insights and that's why we did that deal and they get all of our technology AI a lot of help helping them migrate and then the third thing we did that I got involved with was I'd already done a few CIO summits at Formula One races along the way so I was kind of like trying to poke my way into this thing that was happening I'm not involved in sponsorship set up right so hang on if you've done that thing yet and then them so we decided to do some executive events around Formula one so we'll pick a few races we'll have some you know corporate hospitality like things but when you put a bunch of senior executives together for a few days they share they solve each other's problems and you just get out of the way and they know the people that have solved one problem will share it with the other so it's a really it's like a tiny reinvent right here everyone is sharing if you sit next to someone what problem have you sold you can find stuff out so this is a concentrated version of that and we retired it in Monza earlier this year went great amazing I mean it's fun and it you know next to the business so it finally was like can we get someone on the car on Reba okay who's in Abu Dhabi on Saturday can we get them on Sunday night for the launch for the robot slut no this is like top guy in Formula One got here from Abu Dhabi if by Wednesday morning I'm just happy that they got here yeah that was that was a huge tire cube team we've watched your career you've been somebody who you know shares his knowledge and done some great work so thank you so much for coming back in the cube like that congratulations on all your great work Andy Jesse's coming up next we're excited about that keeper right to everybody we'll be back with our next guest Andy Jesse CEO of AWS right - this short break [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the CUBE's special presentation of HPE Hewlett Packard Enterprise Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier and my cohost Dave Vellante. For three days of wall to wall coverage. This is our intro section of our three days of Hewlett Packard Enterprises transformation and coverage. This is our seventh year covering HPE Discover, formerly HP Discover after the split. Lot of commentary today. We have seen HP over the years transform. We've been watching this, sort of a front row seat to HP, now HPE, really getting hammered in stock market their last earnings again didn't meet expectations, but this is not a quick turn around. I mean, this is a market place that's shifting. HP's had their plan now for multiple years. We're going to cover it for three days. But interesting. The world is turning. You had tweeted this morning on a Twitter storm you put together @dvellante, twitter.com. So it's Dvellante. Everyone should check it out. But it really highlights it. True private cloud, or private cloud, cloud has impacted everything. HP's kind of shifted their cloud strategy. It's becoming clear what they're doing, but private cloud, true private cloud, is legit. It's a 250 plus billion dollar market opportunity, as you guys have put it out on wikibond. Hybrid cloud is very relevant, and on the horizon is multi-cloud, the ability for customers to use multiple clouds. And on top of that we have machine learning, AI, and a myriad of things. Marketplace is shifting significantly, HP has been transforming significantly over the past five plus years. Your thoughts this year at HPE Discover and marketplace conditions and are they poised for success? >> Well, John, we're in the fifth year now of the turnaround that Meg Whitman initiated, and I think it's the light at the end of the tunnel year. HPE-- We've said many times at theCUBE that HP has the strength to grow. Well, it's certainly shrunk. They're about a 50 billion dollar company with a 26 billion dollar market cap, and there's a way to eek out some growth. If you separate all-- Call it Remain Co. Like the remaining company. Take out the software, take out EDS, take out actually tier one, tier one customer who's-- who's not buying as many servers as possible, or as they had previously, and the company grew about one percent. So what you're seeing, John, is some quarters HP grows a little bit, some companies it shrinks a little bit, but essentially it's facing what most legacy hardware companies are facing. Legacy hardware's down, everybody's scrambling to what we call true private cloud, which is essentially hybrid IT, trying to mimic the public cloud. And then HP adds in a dose of IOT at the edge, and then, really importantly, services. Services have never been more important for this company, and that is what I called earlier Remain Co. The remaining HP. Once it jettisons the software business this fall, that's what will be left, basically a 50 billion dollar company with about 55,000 employees. >> I was looking at a-- some IOT stories just last night, and a Business Insider article came up. It was an image, and it had listed the companies that-- by average age. And you had, obviously, Facebook, average age like 28. HP was at the highest end, like 39. And I want to bring up this notion of changing market because HP has always been customer focused, so the question is, if they are truly customer focused, as is Amazon, for instance, we talked to Andy Chasey, he talks about that all the time. And the context of where you've been and where you're going, historical legacy, declining markets, say servers for instance. And where you're going. It brings up an interesting point. And notable is recently Amazon web services hired Gosling, the founder of Java, which had a big conversation on the internet around age. A lot of the winners are older systems guys. So what's interesting is I actually look at that Business Insider article and saying actually age is a wisdom point now, because right now HP's got to solve customer problems. In addition to transforming themselves, they're looking at a customer base that's changing their requirements, so having experience is actually a good thing, as pointed out by some of the big leaders right now in hyperscale are old m systems guys. This is an opportunity for HP, and I think that's where I want to get your thoughts on. Are they customer focused in your mind, and if they are going to be, continue to be, what should their customer focus be? >> Let's talk about what customers are doing. So, first and foremost, customers are deinvesting in non-differentiated, you know, hardware maintenance and provisioning, okay. So they're shifting IT labor from provisioning luns and servers into digital transformation initiatives, so that's sort of one piece. The other pieces there as they're shifting those resources in places up the value stack. So it's applications; it's, as you say, digital transformation services; it's new IOT activity. So they're only investing-- from the HP standpoint, HP's an infrastructure company. They're only investing in infrastructure that looks like public cloud and can focus on hybrid. So are they customer focused? Yes. And what are they doing there? So they're investing in MMA, they're doing some MMA tuck ins. They're focused on develop-- delivering platforms with an API that are essentially programmable infrastructure. And very importantly, they're in a low margin business now. It's sort of low 30 percent gross margin business. So they have to get volume. How do they get volume? How do they reach those customers? Partners. So you are seeing a new partner emphasis. You know, are they customer focused? Yes, but they're really right now partner focused to reach those customers and increase their scale and coverage. That is a critical difference between the new HP, not that they always didn't have partners, now partners are critical to their success. >> One of the things that's the theme here is simplifying hybrid IT and I think from a customer standpoint, simplifying that is going to be critical. At the same time, creating new services opportunities. So I want to get your thoughts on the top story, at least from my perspective, here at the show at HPE Discover, and that is, is it better to be big or small? And HP has a strategy of a collection of small, nimble, agile business units. Dell EMC, for instance, has a strategy of being big and using leverage and supply chain and what not. Two different strategies. We pointed that out on the web. Certainly we've heard a lot of different approaches. Your thoughts on HP's strategy vis a vis bigger and better, or smaller and nimbler is better. >> Well, HP's not small. Hewlett Packard Enterprises is still big. I mean, it's a, it's a company that's twice the size, or more, than EMC was at its peak. So it's still a very, very large company. The difference is, John, I think they're focused. So they really are focused on hardware and infrastructure, the support, you know, the digital transformation, whatever you want to call it. The big question I have, John, is now that HP is getting rid of its software business, its outsourcing and EDS business, what is HP going to do with regard to software and services. So, they reinvented the whole services organization. The big question mark for me is software. Will they get into this, what you call inter-clouding business? Software to manage multiple clouds. It's a wide open space, everybody's going after it, and I haven't heard much from HP there. So what is their software strategy? Now, the other thing I'll add, is the good thing about being smaller is that it's going to generate cash for them. So they're going to get, going to get cash out of the spin merge with CSC. They're going to get cash out of the spin merge with MicroFocus. And you've already seen HP become more aquisitive with the Simplivity acquisition, certainly with Nimble recently, previously the Aruba acquisition, and some other tuck ins. That's critical in order for HP to reposition and continue to grow. >> Yeah, and my take on HP right now is they got to be more assertive. Their voice in the marketplace, at an industry level, has to be very assertive and relevant. I think that's something you've got to put the stake in the ground and hammer that home. I think we got the piece parts, and I think the spin merge is not a "they're getting out of that business." They're just decoupling from the monolithic entity that was HPE and creating kind of cohesive entities. And I think there's a strategy, in my opinion, that looks really strong there in the sense that, hey, at the end of the day, it's going to be a services game. And if you look at the IOT Edge, to me that's the tell sign of the marketplace. As the value shifts from IT-- So, simplifying IT, having true private cloud, having some hybrid pathways for IT, maybe a declining market from a service perspective, but simplifying that and operationalizing that and shifting the value to the Edge with services is a huge opportunity for HP. This is something that not a lot of people on Wall Street are kind of rocking at this point. But the value shift from IT, centralized IT, to a distributed kind of network effect is a really interesting play. And I think this a bet I think HP's making from my standpoint, and that's where the intelligent Edge piece comes in. If they could nail that, and layer on the services, and bring real value paths for customers with outcomes that are, not pie in the sky-- Sure, they throw some AI in there, machine learning, it's all relevant. Getting into open source. Taking that labs machine and memster technology and bringing that out at an appropriate timing. With the services in place. I think that's a good strategy for HP. >> Well, you mentioned Wall Street. Look, Wall Street is very tactically focused on the quarter and the margin decline, and, you know, D-Ram prices doubled in January, okay? So a company like HPE is going to get hurt by that. So that's head winds for these guys, these currency head winds. The stock, the price will go up and down. But the point I want to make, John, is there's a new competitive reality. CIOs have woken up to open source and cloud. And as a result, we've emerged into a new competitive dynamic where HPE is competing with Dell. It's competing with China, and it's competing with AWS. And it's one different-- Two differentiable advantages or services, you know, clearly HP's doubling down on services. I'll actually add a third. The second is partnerships, and the third big one, which is green field, is an ecosystem around IOT and what they call the intelligent edge. >> Well, Dave, great commentary. My, again, my feeling is customer focus at an industry level, having the right product mix that's relevant in the, for the solutions customers want. And also their partners. Leveraging that partner network. Really going to be a two pivot points for me. I see that as great leverage for HP. At the end of the day, everyone talking about declining market of servers and storage. I actually don't see that. There's more computers available now, more storage available. The key is can that shift to true private cloud, which again is a 250 billion dollar market, partly declining. And hybrid cloud is certainly growing. So, declining and growing, I mean they're all different perspectives, and I think HP's messaging here-- Come the end of the show, we're going to look at that and understand and impact and unpack that, that analysis. So, I'm Jeff Furrier, Dave Vellante. Day one of coverage, of three days of wall to wall coverage at HPE Discover 2017. More live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering HPE Discover 2017 brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Welcome back everyone, live here in Las Vegas, this is the Cube special presentation of Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, HPE Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier with The Cube, my co-host Dave Vellante for the next three days with wall-to-wall coverage here in Las Vegas. Our next guess is Tom Lattin, Vice President and General Manager of HPE Server Options which is all the good stuff that wrap around the servers. And certainly the big news here at HP is the Gen10, the continuation of the, the generation of servers which is all the rage these days. People are talkin' about servers, are we buying more or buying less? Still a lot of private cloud going on. Nothing really changing in the premise world. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you, good to be here. >> Alright, so what's the big news? I mean, to me the, the thing that I've always been watching is the Gen8 stuff, Gen10 now is the new announcement platform for servers. >> Certainly. >> A lot of stuff happening around, a lot of innovations. Give us a quick update on the key things happening around Gen10 and the options. >> Well certainly with Gen10, we've got a whole new level of security that is a big part of the Gen10 story. And with the server options in the memory SEP system and the storage SEP system and the networking SEP system, all of those technologies contribute to building up those layers of security in Gen10. So that's a key part of what we're doing this week at discover. The second thing in the options space, the server options space, is persistent memory. So we introduced persistent memory on Gen9 servers last year with the MB DIMM, an eight gigabyte MB DIMM. We're extending that portfolio this year with the Gen10 servers and increasing the MB DIMM capacity to 16 gigabytes. But the really big news in the persistent memory offering is scalable persistent memory. >> I just saw a great article on the CRN, Computer Reseller News or CRN, really giving you guys some props on this. "Persistent memory combines the performance of D RAM with the persistent of traditional SSDs or spinning disk. So, essentially a huge performance gain, and, which is always good, HP has that, always has some good mojo when it comes to, you know, high quality products and performance. But talk about the impact because one of things that's going on right now is storage has to be invisible but applications now have, going beyond virtual machines. You've got containers, you've got all kinds of cloud things happening with the apps. So the data, the state of the data, the performance of the data is really critical to customers. What's the impact of this to that trend? >> This is, persistent memory unleashes an incredible amount of performance for the server, for the application running on the server. At it's most fundamental level, persistent memory and MB DIMM or a scalable persistent memory implementation can replace a layer of flash storage. And we're seein' performance benefits on the order of doubling the performance of the application just by swapping out an SSD for persistent memory or an MB DIMM. When the applications, when the architects actually modify the applications to take advantage of the fact that there's a persistent memory layer in there, we see performance benefits as small as four times improvement, but in many cases we're seeing 20, 25, 27x performance improvements because the architects of the applications now can dive right into the memory sub-system without going through layers and layers of code and moving data around to get to storage. >> Love, love the options comps that you guys are running because I think one of the things that we here is, you know, flexibility is key and it's kind like goin' to the store and, like, getting some accessories for your suit. Not one size fits all, you need to have a lot of options given the environment. So I got to ask you the competitive question. How do you guys compare vis-a-vis the competition with the persistent memory stuff, for instance? You mentioned the performance, how does that compare with some of your competitors? >> I think persistent memory is a good example of where we're way out ahead of where our competition is right now. It's, you can't just drop in a piece of hardware in the server and get all of the benefit out of it. You've got to be able to integrate that piece of hardware with the system software, the bios in the system, and then work with software application partners especially to go modify, or to optimize their applications to work best with that component that you put in there. >> And you guys do that? >> We do that extensively. >> Not the customer, the customer just, what? Just installs it? >> The customer gets it. It just works. >> So, what's the typical sort of anatomy of a life cycle of a server these days? And, and, I mean, it used to be, in the old days it was called peripherals and peripherals made up probably 60 to 70% of the market so it was very huge, you know, quite a huge opportunity. So how does it work from a customer standpoint? Does, do they, what's their starting point? How do they plan this out? Or is it more reactive? I wonder if you could sort of bring us up to date on that dynamic, Tom. >> I think that's, part of what we bring to the market is a set of server platforms that have an incredible breadth of capability and that breadth comes from the configuration choices that customer can make through the server options portfolios. So, generally, they're, a customer will standardize on a few different platform types and then deploy those servers for a variety of different workloads. And so it's through those configuration choices, storage capacity, memory capacity, the performance of different layers in the memory and storage hierarchy that allow them to be able to fine-tune a small set of servers, really, for a much broader set of workloads. >> So we've commented for a number of years now on The Cube that the pendulum is swinging. Storage is, and servers are coming, and computer coming closer together. >> Absolutely. >> You certainly saw that with Flash and PCIe. Sort of, those trends brought storage and compute together and now you're accelerating that even further with, with persistent memory. >> Tom: Yes. >> So, as that happens, one of the big challenges is data sharing, right? Now you hear things like, you know, NVMe over Fabric and other technologies to, to link these capabilities, these nodes if you will. What's, I mean it sounds like The Machine, so. >> Tom: Exactly. >> What's happening there and help us sort of squint through those two big trends. >> Yeah, I think that as we evolve architectures to focus on the data and recognize that the data really is where the value resides, we're moving from a world where, first of all, sharing the data on storage makes a lot of sense to enable that. If you look at some of the demonstrations that we've done recently with the machine and with memory driven computing, it's about taking that shared presence of the data or shared instance of the data to an entirely new level where the processors, processing capability can get directly at it and operate it and work on that really as a shared body of information, shared body of knowledge. So yes, started in the storage sub-system but absolutely where we're headed is a memory-driven computing world where it's in the memory sub-systems. >> And that is The Machine, but, and which is a, you know, big R&D project that's kind of comin' out of HP Labs, and, you know, Martin Fink showing it off a couple years ago and giving us the roadmap, but now we're seein' it sort of evolve. But as well, I would think your ecosystem can kind of build it's own pseudo-machine, you know? With compute power and all this persistent memory and you know, architecting, I mean, do you see those as two separate vectors that, you know, let's see what happens in the channel? Or, or do you see those two worlds coming together? >> Fundamentally, we are a partnering business, right? We work extensively with the ecosystem of software providers, partners in the industry. So what we're demonstrating with The Machine, necessarily we've done a lot of those parts ourselves to show the capability. But absolutely this memory-centric computing vision and that we're beginning to realize with some of the products that we're releasing today, persistent memory is a great example of that, is all about enabling the industry, the ecosystem in the industry to bring that value for, ultimately for all of our customers. >> And has heading up the sort of options business, if you will, how do you, one of the things we've talked about a lot is this notion of true private cloud which is substantially mimicking public cloud on PRIM because the world is hybrid as we all sort of point out. How do you create that experience for customers? That, that cloud-like experience? >> I think it, well with the simplicity and the agility of what we're doing with the HPE compute experience now is very focused on creating that cloud-like experience in a hybrid cloud world, right? On premises for example. And so that's, a lot of that is about being able to scale up and down the computing capability, to incorporate new financial models so that you can buy compute, rent compute at your, kind of, depending on what your strategic corporate objectives are. So the options themselves then give you that ability to, for example, scalable persistent memory uses the base system in the server and one day you may say, "Hey, I need to use a "portion of that as persistent "because of the workload that I'm running." And then later that night, that same system could translate over to run a completely different workload and change the profile of the persistent memory that's being used because it's a configuration setting of the base system memory. So making the system itself very flexible to adapt to the changing needs of workloads, either overtime or very realtime like that in the course of a day. >> Tom I want to get your thoughts on the trends that we're covering, and certainly the industry's covering. So you have an industry scope and you have, obviously, partners which are going to be critical in getting things certified and or working so the customer just plugs, plugs stuff in, like the memory. >> Tom: Yes. >> Obviously the market place says, well, "Oh server ships are down," but the cloud's happening, servers are actually growing no matter how you look at. But there's more realtime stuff goin' on. There's more processing happening. How do you guys look at the marketplace trends because there is more need, at The Edge for instance, we had Bill Philbin on just earlier before you came on talkin' about how storage and compute are comin' together. This is kind of the, the options world you're in. You're in the middle of all this action so people actually cobbling together and composing solutions, whether it's on PRIM or working with similar architectures in the cloud, same code bases moving back and forth. So this whole world is really not declining. Maybe shifting how it was before, that transformation you're in the middle of, how do you guys look at that and how you do talk to the customers who are like, "I was buying servers and options before, "I still got to do that but I got to "transform and be prepared for realtime analytics, "using multiple clouds, all these kinds of, "these, these important items for the future"? >> Yeah, it's a bit of an architectural revolution if you will, right? As we move to a memory-centric computing world, as we move to a world where everything is cloud-based, cloud architecture-based, whether it's out in a public cloud somewhere or on an on-prep as kind of hybrid IT model, it really is a completely different architectural model. And so to capitalize on that, what we work with customers on is things like the composable capability of synergy. Things like persistent memory and making that scalable to move to a memory-driven computing model. Things like our all-Flash array business and our product offerings to be able to accelerate that storage sub-system well beyond what's been done before. >> It's performance driven too, you got to eek out performance more and more. >> Yes. That's kind of the mandate. Another interesting thing I wanted to get your thoughts on, and, you know, I'm old in the industry these days relative to the average age of most people in the big the big companies, like hyper-scalers are like 28 to 30-something. The trend is systems. I mean, you're seeing, if you look at what the cloud ' doing in the revolution at the architectural level, it's almost a complete crossover to a systems mindset. Systems meaning operating systems or, you know, core systems. So a lot of the people that are really doing well in the industry, who are radically transforming it, are older guys. James Gosling was at, just joined Amazon Web Services. You got guys who are in their 50s who are leading major architectural shifts. This kind of puts HP in an interesting position because you guys have so much experience with systems, servers, you know, just on an isolated basis. But now, as that looks out over the landscape, it's even more important to look at it from a holistic perspective. Your thoughts on this trend? >> Well absolutely, it's a huge trend and by taking the expertise that we've got at a systems level and coupling that with our strategic imperative to partner with other industry leaders in the industry revolution, I think those two together position not just HPE well, but the ecosystem of HPE and our software industry partners to really help advance that, that architectural-- >> I was talking to James Governor last who's the, with Red Monk and one of the research firms we like and I said to him, "It's open bar and open source," was my kind of headline story I was tryin', we were collaborating on and what I mean by that is that, you know, as open source evolves, we saw some of the stuff goin' on with The Machine in mem-store, a lot of that stuffs going to be open source at the core at the system level. So open source is growing, but when I say open bar, it's like there is more goodness being contributed to open source than ever before. You're seeing great machine learning libraries being, you know, given in to collaboration. You're seeing open source being a great recruiting environment. So if you're a young gun in the marketplace right now, you're getting all this contribution so with that kind of as a context, what's the open source strategy that you see? 'Cause you're in kind of a glue layer with options. You're kind of creating some flexibility for customers. At the same time, you've got a glue kind of concept goin' on with software. What do you guys do with open source? Is there a trend there that you'd like to share? I mean, I'm interested to know what your position is vis-a-vis contribution programs and whatnot. >> Yeah, I think, certainly at the hardware layers, right, of what we're doing with server options, it's about enabling new capabilities. And so we work with quite a few open source partners to enable those. So say, for example, Red Hat, they're taking our persistent memory offerings and optimizing those so that they get, certainly the immediate benefit of a layer of high-performance storage but the more radical performance improvements that they can get when they address directly a layer of persistent memory. So it's not so much that we're creating a whole new, at least in the option space, kind of a whole new open source plane. >> But you're intersecting. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, one other thing is networking is hot right now. Certainly, SDM we see that. A lot of the open source projects, and even in Linux foundation you're seeing the network stack just kind of being, kind of decomposed. So a very interesting opportunity. >> Yes. >> Well, and the same thing with storage, right? And you mentioned Flash a couple of times right? You're seeing the whole storage stack just completely morphing and changing. >> Tom: Yeah. >> So you guys are in the center of that, how does a customer engage? Does it happen typically through the channel, do they go to hpe.com, how does that happen? >> For server option kind of products, yeah, certainly. Through our direct sales force, through our partners' sales forces, 'cause, as we said, it's an ecosystem that brings us value forward. So in many cases, it's not us in, even in explaining something like persistent memory. It's Microsoft or it's Red Hat or it's SUSE, or partners there, VMware. We've got a, actually a lot of presence with VMware and some interesting things they're going to be talking about in one of our sessions here later today at Discover. So that's one path. Or two paths. Our sales force, their sales force and then, absolutely, the channel. We've got a very rich channel program and a lot of engagement with them to bring them up on networking technologies, storage technologies, memory, persistent memory technologies so that they can-- >> John: So it's ecosystem is really the key. >> They can effectively engage customers, yeah. >> Alright, Tom Lattin is the Vice President and General Manager at HP Server Options. My final question for you to end the segment here is what should customers know about Gen10 and server options if you had a chance to look right into the camera and say, "Hey, new game in town," or, "Think differently around architecture," what would be, what would be your words? In your words, what should customers know about the world you're building? >> Certainly with Gen10, the server options portfolio unleashes or helps support the overall security capabilities of Gen10, number one. But if I can have a second one. >> John: Of course. >> I've got to play persistent memory high because we've got a terabyte-scale persistent memory capability in the Gen10 platforms which is, opens up a whole new world of opportunity for applications, as I said, early on to develop or increase performance, in many cases, 20, 25, 27 times the capabilities today. >> That's awesome, I mean I think the memories awesome. Dave and I have been talkin' for years that memory used to be the resource that was constrained and unlimited storage, now it's the other way around, people want memory, application developers and programmers. This is The Cube bringing you great content you can put to memory, Flash memory. HPE Discover, I'm John Fullier with Dave Vellante, we'll be back with more live coverage after this short break.