you live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to Miami everybody this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peter burst we're wrapping up day two of v-mon 2019 and so we've been talking about cloud hybrid cloud data protection backup evolving to more of an automated data management environment can bring dollars here and he is in charge of really building out the VM ecosystem that he's the vice president of global alliance architecture at VM Kent great to see you again thanks for coming on yeah thanks Dave preciate so the ecosystem is evolving you know you're in a competitive marketplace but one of the things that differentiates Veeam is you know billion dollar company and people want to do business with your customers and so the ecosystem keeps growing and growing and you guys have some you know blue chip names at the top of your sponsor list we do a good job but you're not done yet so not at all and I think Dave you know it's it's really great to see how v-mon has evolved and you know in our partner ecosystem you know we have you know you talked about us hitting a billion dollars you know we rat marinelle's we hit 350,000 customers that customer number is a huge asset for us when we talked to our partners you know that is something that they're all trying to tap into right they love you know and our customers are really passionate and we have partners that come to us and they say hey look you know and that you know the bigger partners than us and they're saying hey will you please work with us will you please you know we want to do deeper integration because our customers you know are saying we're Veeam customers and and you you know you know mister partner you have to go work with teams so that so that our solutions will work better together so it's a it's a great asset to us yeah and it's it's evolved since you know it's just certainly just the first Vemma and I was at the very first one I think was we were talking was at the Aria whatever it was five years ago so so you know ecosystem is I think Jason Buffington was quoting Archimedes today and you know livre and and that ecosystem is is you know a huge opportunity for growth ok so let's get into it well first of all I want to ask you if time was interesting global alliance architecture yes so we're not talking technical architecture necessarily we're talking about what the architecture of the ecosystem or both yeah so some money you know my role my responsibilities and what my team looks after is everything technical related to our partners so veem we're a hundred percent is fee and you know ratmir and aundrea to co-founders and leaders to the company you know that that's something that they take to heart and it's something that's actually really valuable when we talk to our partners is we don't really overlap very much especially with the infrastructure partners that we have and so you know my job is to take the great products we have and make it work really well and go deep with our partners so create value with these partners there's sometimes their product integrations storage snapshot integrations we announced the width beam program two weeks ago we are together at that next with the rest of your team talking about Nutanix mine with theme which is a secondary storage integrated solution so all of those that's all part of my roles so solution architecture and product integrations you know through our partner ecosystem which which is very broad it stretches from storage partners to platform partners to other is feeds like Oracle SAT even healthcare partners yeah Peter we were excited about the width Eames stuff dat who is with Fein yours with Vemma yeah so my team is responsible for the overall architecture with Vemma it's it's really a joint collaboration within within Veeam so we have an R&D investment that's building the intellectual property that powers the you know the system under the covers my team's responsible for the broader architecture how we bring it together how we bring it to market through the channel right and and and how we bring it to our customers and that whole experience so my team is is intimately involved in that so a lot of people talk about inflection points in the industry and clearly were in the middle one way of describing it is that the first 50 years were known process unknown technology we never gonna do accounting we knew are going to do HR where you were going to do blah blah blah blah blah and there was mainframe client-server with a lot of other stuff but the whole notion of backup and restore and data protection grew up out of the complexity in the infrastructure as we move forward it's interesting because it's known technology it's gonna be cloud relatively known yes but what's interesting is we don't know what the processes are gonna be we don't know what we're gonna automate we don't know how we're going to change the business it's all going to be data driven which places an enormous burden on IT and specifically how they use data within the business so I'm gonna ask your question it's a long preamble but I'm asking the question I asked you out in there too and this is not the test but the question is look as we move forward as data is used to differentiate a business it suggests that there's going to be greater specialization in how data use is used which could and should lead to greater specialization in the role that veem and related technologies will play within the business and the question then is is the with veem approach a way to let allow innovation to bloom so that specialization can be accommodated and supported within the VM ecosystem yeah so yeah Peter good question and so I tell you that the short answer is yes the longer answer is I wasn't shorter than the short answer is yes the longer answer is it doesn't have to be with Veeam but really our goal and and what we want to empower our partners and so really the goal of with Veeam is hey we're already working across our partner ecosystem and we you know we work with with the likes of NetApp and HP and pure and Nutanix and you know and all the platform providers as well public clouds you know our goal is is to make VM ubiquitous and drive better value to our customers and through our partners right we need partners no matter what when we're working with a customer there's always there's always a workload we're protecting and we need a place to land our backup so no matter what we're always working with one or two partners in a deal and sometimes it's multiple because then you TR out to cloud storage and in other places you know with with veem what we're trying to do is is really simplify that process for customers and so make that process from the buying experience all the way through the delivery and the deployment and the management and the ongoing management day 1 and day 2 operations we want to make that all seamless and give them higher value now one thing we're looking to enable and by adding api's with veeam is we want to leverage the strengths of the partners we have and so you know I often end up in these discussions because we have a broad partner ecosystem we've already announced - with VM solutions we have a third that you know we did last year with Cisco that's in the market that's sort of similar in nature and we're gonna add more and you know the question our partners even ask us is you know you already got three of them why are you gonna add another one you know how am I going to differentiate and the answer is you know they differentiate with their own technology and and the idea is we have these open API so that they can they can build their own solutions they fit different markets and fit different use cases some are small small customer solutions some are enterprise but our goal is to enable them to be creative and how they build on top of eeeem but but have you know Veen be a core part of that solution rather so so it is a core part of solution yes apply to specific customer absolutely okay so the term seamless always you know triggers me in a way because seamless is like open right it's evolved over time and so what was seamless you know 10 years ago wasn't really seamless in today's terms so when you talk about seamless we're talking about if I understand it deep engineering right getting access to primitives through api's and creating solutions that are differentiable as a function of your partner's core value proposition and obviously integrating with meme with 350,000 customers so you're now in the ball game with with Veen customers so so so talk about the importance of api's and how that actually gets done yeah and seamless to whom to the partners to the customer to ultimately it's to the customer boom but but but there's got to be an ease of integration as well with the partners and I'd like to understand that better yeah absolutely so I'll give you an example of something we've done in the past that's that we're trying to model this with veem program after so but a year and a half as part of our 9.5 update 3 we introduced what we call universal storage API and we've talked about our version 10 there were five core features of version 10 when we announced that two years ago in New Orleans you're the first time you were you were with us at a v-mon and one of those was Universal storage API and what that means is you know we help we help our partners we help our customers ultimately by way of our partners on the primary side of integrating storage snapshots with vmware vsphere and so when we when we go to backup a vm we take a snapshot of that vm and with this with our storage snapshot integration we then take a storage snapshot of the volume that vm is on and we can release that VM where a snapshot very quickly so it's very low touch and low impact on the environment well we we introduced this API so that we could scale we had we had done our own storage snapshot and integration with you know call it 5 or 6 storage vendors over the previous seven years eight years right in the last year and a half we've added seven right and that's the scale we're talking about and allowing our partners to build the storage snapshot plug-in together right so we have a program we invite them into that program we collaborate on it they develop the plug-in we jointly test it and we release it and so we're trying to sort of take and that's been very successful as I said eight years five or six storage snapshot vendors year and a half we've done like another seven or eight so it's been very successful and we have more that are in queue so we'll be talking about more of these as time goes on in the very near future with the width beam program we're looking to do something very similar it's gonna be an invite-only program realistically the secondary storage partner is this the universe is probably 20 the logical universe for us is probably 10 to 12 so it's not going to be huge but it's gonna be impactful for our partners and so we'll invite them into the program we'll have an agreement of us working together we'll jointly develop and test it and we'll bring it to market together at the end of the day you know both our partner and veem we have our name on it and I'm sure you heard from rat mayor and Danny and others right we have our NPS score which we really really value and it's really high it's best in the industry and if we're putting our name on a solution in the market we also want to make sure that we're working on it together in it you know it really goes through the rigor of what it takes to bring a Vemma solution tomorrow actually you know what nobody's talked this week this week about the NPS core if they maybe they have in the keynote so that it might have missed it but well I was in the keynotes what is it today well yeah so so an NPS score is basically you know from from 0 to 100 it's it's you know we'll a customer reference you or recommend you right right and so ours is 73 ok the industry the the general average in in in our space is about 28 to 30 so we're about 2 and a half times that that's core you know and that's in Frank Zubin said to me one time it's easy to have a high NPS core if you're a one product company but you're not a one product company no no we've we've evolved substantially I mean you know we've we've added agents to cover physical workload we've we've added cloud support we've added other applications we've added veem availability Orchestrator we've added beam backup for office 365 we have VA C which is the availability console for our service providers which has cloud connected it's a very broad portfolio everything comes back to beam backup and replication as the flagship foundation but we have all these other products that that now help our customers solve their problems the reason we were so excited about this with wid theme is this notion of cloud and hybrid cloud and you talk about programmable infrastructure you really have been pushing just bringing the cloud experience to your data talking about that for a while and part of that has to be infrastructure as code and it can't really do that without open api's and this sort of seamless integration well the cloud is testing us with you as well the cloud is a really an architecture for how you're going to distribute work as opposed to how you can centralize Handicap I think for a long time we got it wrong it's all presumed and it's all gonna go to the center we're in fact when you get that level of standardization and common conventions and the technologies are built to make a tea that much easier it allows you to distribute the work a lot more effectively get the data closer to where the works going to be done and that is enormous implications for how we think about things but it also means that we when we talk about bringing the cloud to the data that the data has to be there the data services that make that data part of a broader fabric have to be there and it all has to be assured so that the system knows something about where the data is and what services can be applied to it in advance of actually moving the workloads that suggests ultimately that the technology set that veem is offering is going to evolve relatively rapidly so the whole notion of you know with V today for secondary storage but I could see that becoming something that you guys take two new classes of data service providers pretty quickly I don't want you to pre-announce anything but what do you think yeah Peter I think I think you're really on to something and when we when we sort of look at the worlds right the infrastructure world were in you know and and certainly some of our partners would draw a slightly different picture but we see Veen as as the common thread in the middle right because at the end of the day and I think you mentioned it as you were just talking there you know when we talk about hybrid cloud right we see now our customers especially commercial and enterprise and large enterprise customers it is it is a very heterogeneous environment it's multiple hypervisors different storage platforms it's multiple cloud providers because they're picking best to breed for the workload and so they need a platform that's got really breadth in depth of coverage and so the the one common thread we weave between there is Veeam right so if if we are that data protection layer as I mentioned before you know we're in the middle we're protecting a primary workload and we're writing our data to a secondary workload but in the middle is Veeam and so that workload we're protecting on Prem cloud secondary data centers theme is the thread in between there you can move that data around and wherever that is we can make use for now I'll give you a good example today you know let's say we're protecting a visa or workload on Prem right we back that up to it to assist them locally so we can have fast restore but ultimately we tear that out bean cloud tier capacity tear tear that's AWS so we can we can actually recover workloads in Atos one or two we have directory store which would take a backup from on-prem and directly move it there for DRAM migration purposes or we can simply consume that that backup that's now up in the cloud because Veen backups are self-describing we can lose the system on Prem and recover it so your point about making the data close to your workload with with veeam in the middle we enable that for our customers regardless of where they want to go yeah so we think that that's going to change the mindset from protection to assurance so assure your data is local and then it's the right data it's Integris and all the other things and then ultimately you know move it and back it up to some other site so it's but it's a subtle switch it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out this is obviously well and as we talked about as you need to begin to protect things like containers like functions that come and go super quickly assurance has more meaning because there's the security threats and if you can help solve those problems through your partners through automation spinning containers up and down making it harder for the bad guys to you know a target a specific container raising essentially the cost so lowers their ROI that is a new game yeah and and I'll call out one thing a rat mayor I thought did a really good job on stage yesterday in his keynote he popped the slide which talked about the universal storage API and with theme and it had all our partners sort of around that you know that that I think he Illustrated our strategy which is hey we're focusing on the core parts of backup and replication and helping the core parts the data protection we're gonna partner with everything else that's adjacent to that we're not going to go solve maybe some of the security problems ourselves we're gonna enable some hooks secure restore maybe as an example we've announced you know in the technology keynote yesterday we announced a new API that allows partners to come in and crack open Veen backups and take a look at them one of the things could be deep inspection so you know our strategy and our goal is really to be open to our partners so that they can come in and add value and again our our goal for our customers is give them choice so give them choice of to choose best-of-breed solutions don't go do it and say hey you got to go use partner a you know hey we're gonna we're gonna have an API that others can build to and you go choose your best debris partner or your platform technology choice well and with 350,000 customers you've got a big observation space so guys have always been customer driven can give you the last word on vivant 2019 you're our last guest then we're gonna wrap with a little analysis on our end but give us the bumper sticker yeah I think the bumper sticker is hey you know we've you know from a business perspective you know we hit a billion dollars in bookings we have hit 350,000 customers the Innovation Train is really moving our Veen clouds here that we announced with update four earlier this year has gone way beyond our expectations and and we're looking to continue to build on that momentum so we're just super excited you know we if I'm the closer I'll say thanks to all of our sponsors we have a lot of great sponsors and on the cloud side on the on the Alliance partners side the channel side you know it's just it's it's a testament to where we are as a companies yeah and you're building out a great ecosystem congratulations on that and and good luck going forward and we'll see you around at the shows it's great it's great to have you guys right thank you all right you're welcome all right keep it right there everybody Peter and I went back to wrap right after this short break and watching the cube live from V Mon 2019 from Miami we'll be right back

>> live from Orlando, Florida It's the que covering Accelerate nineteen. Brought to you by Ford. >> Welcome back to the Q. We air live in Orlando, Florida At Fortinet Accelerate twenty nineteen Lisa Martin with Peter Burst. Pleased to welcome back one of our alumni on ly the CEO and founder of Fortinet. Kensi. Ken, thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the Cuban. Thanks for having the Cube back at accelerate. >> Yeah, I love to be here again. Yeah, Thank you. >> So, so quick by the numbers Can Kino. This morning was awesome. Loved the music and all the lights to start four thousand attendees from forty countries. You guys now have about three hundred eighty five thousand customers globally. Your revenue and F eighteen was up twenty percent year on year. I could go on and on. Lots of partners, lots of academies, tremendous growth. Talk to us about in the evolution of security. Where are we today and why is supporting that so well positioned to help customers dramatically transform security >> First world happy to see all the partner of the cosmos were come here. And also we keep him like every year we in this program also is a great program on another side. Like I say, securities of wherever dynamic space you need to keep in landing on We see more and more people come here s o that's we'LL be happy to discuss in the new technology the new market opportunity and also the new trend on DH Also What we see is a the space is so old and I'm making Also we see a lot of people keeping come here for the training for other sins And also I love the music make make us feel young again So But I >> think one of the reasons why security is so dynamic it is you don't for example, in the server world you don't have, you know you know gangs of bad guys running around with baseball bats trying to eat your servers. In the security world, you have people trying to enable the business to be able to do more, but also people constantly trying to tear the business down. And that tension drives a lot of invention and requires a lot of innovation. How is that changing? We're driving some of the key trends and networks and network security >> Yeah, that's where like I presented this morning. Wait, You see, with more device connected, Actually motive, I Some people being connect today and eventually in few years we'LL be calm. Motive eyes on people. There also is all the five G or icy went technology you can make is connected faster, more broadly reached. And then there's a more application More data also come to the Internet. So that's all you quist tax servants. There's all additional risk We'LL have all this connection. We have all these data transfer to all these different diversity on people. So that's all security business, right? Because secure to have the address where they now walking cannot really are dresses above the connection above the speed. So we have our dressing a content layered application layer the device user layer all regionally or country lier s O. That's making the security always keeping foreign faster than the night walk in the night. He spending on the study become the biggest sector United ninety idea spending environment. That's also one time we just feel security also need a study merger convert together is not working because no longer oh now will get only kind of the speed I can activities secure, canniness and bob. They had to be working together to smart rain route. In a data, put a low risk area tow without a polluted like transfer. All this conscience on that way, see, is the two industries that emerged together. That's where Koda security driven that walk are the arson about how this kind of we see today the mobile on cloud started replacing the traditional PC, right? So about going forward, the wearable divine's all the glass and we award study replaced the mobile. You don't have the whole mobile phone the season, while they're probably in your eyes on the same piled. A smart car that's my home, the wise every single connecting way Are you walking? Like if I walking here our sins related my information on power for me so I don't have to carry innocents, so that's going for you. A few years we'LL be happy. First, security will be part of this space. How this will be going forward contrato today The mobile the cloud way also have some discussion about that one. So we need to prepare for all this because that's how fortunate being founded. That's how our culture about generation, about long career advancement. So that's where we want to make sure the technology the part already for this chance. That's what gave the use of the past benefit of leverage of connection. Same time, lower the risk >> organ has taken an approach in the marketplace of Let Me Step Back. Put it this way. We all talk about software to find everything in virtual ization, and that's clearly an important technology and important trend. Ford has taken advantage of that as well, but the stuff doesn't run. All that's offered stuff doesn't run on hamsters. It runs in hardware. Unfortunate has made taking a strategic position, and it's been a feature of your nearly twenty year history to continuously invest in hardware and open up the performance aperture. Increase the size of the bucket of that hardware. How is that? Both altered your ability to add additional functionality, get ahead of the curve relative to competition, but also enabled your ecosystem to do a lot of new and interesting things that we're not seeing on other another network security companies? >> Yeah, that's why I totally agree with you. Israeli howto unable the past ecosystem for everybody playing a space for the partners of his provider, carrier enterprise, on the photo leverage technology benefit. More broadly, Cosmo base is very important. That's where we feel like a sulfur cloud. They do study in kind of a change, a lot of sense. But you also need a balance among clothes. Suffers were important, but also the hardwork also very important. All right, so that's the hybrid. More post the power on the sulfur. Both the cloud at age both have equal equal weight. Equally important, going forward How to leverage all this post is also also kind of very important for the future growth of future trend Another So you also can see like a mission. Uh, will you have the immersive device? We'LL have some, like security applied in tow Storage in that work in small Sadie, you also need a bad lie. Security be part of it. No, just security. I don't cop as a cost of additional Whatever process are all since, But you know, once you make it secure to be part ofthe like we mentioned a security for even that Working security driven like a future like a wearable device or the other since without it will be huge ecosystem going forward. That's where is the chip technology you can. Bad. We just saw Fervor is also additional servants. We can all walk in together. So that's where we want to look at the whole spectrum. There, make sure different part all can walk in together on also different technology. No, just limiting some part of it. I make sure the faux technologists face hole. Attack service can be a poor tag. And also we can leverage for the security of the high table addition. Opinions? You know, this conducted a war. >> This is what you're calling the third generation of Security? >> Yes, there's more. You for structure security. That's the whole security compared tto first dinners and second generation is our security just secured himself right. So you don't involve with other night walking star recharge the infrastructure? No, because Because they view everything you inside the companies secure You only need a guard at the door This Hey, who has come here? Anything inside I'll find But with today all the mobile pouring on Devise all the data everywhere Go outside the company you need to make sure security for all of the data. So that's the new trend. So now the border disappeared. So it doesn't matter. You said the company or not, is no longer secure anymore because you can use the mobile, the access rights o outside. All people can also come here with data also go out. So that's where the infrastructure security neither give or imposing their work inside on points. I under the cloud of the age and all this a different device on the diversity. Why? So you're even your mobile phone? Hi! Still working together. So it's a much bigger before structure. Much bigger are traceable space. Now that's making secure, more exciting. >> Well, we have gotten used over the past twenty years of building applications that operate on somebody else's device, typically a PC or mobile phone. And we've learned how to deal with that. You're suggesting that we're actually going to be integrating our systems with somebody else's systems at their edge or our edge on a deeply intimate level and life and death level. Sometimes on that, obviously, place is a real premium on security and networking whatnot. So how does the edge and the cloud together informed changes and how we think about security, how we think about networking, >> That's where, like I think age and a cloud they each complaint. Different role, because architecture. So the cloud has a good C all the bigger picture. They're very good on the provisioning. There could archiving cloud, also relatively slow, and also you can see most of data generated and age. That's where, whether you're immersive device, all your mobile, whatever ages were we called a digital made physical, and that's all the people in Device Connect. So that's where, like a seven eighty percent data, Carrion a probably never traveled to the club. They need a processed locally. They also need have the privacy and autonomy locally and also even interactive with other eighty vice locally there. So that's what we see is very important. Both the cloud on age security can be addressed together and also celebrity of architecture, that I say the cloud is good for detection so you can see a something wrong. You can cry the information, but the age new market on the provisions, because prevention need to be really time needed back, moreover, quickly because a lot of application they cannot afford a late Nancy like where do the V I. R. Even you slow down in a microsecond. Pickle feet is the famous signals. You also see the also drive a car. If you react too slow, you may hear something right the same scene for a lot of harder. Even you. Commerce, whatever. If you not response picking out within a half second, people may drop the connection. The memos are married, so that's what the late and see the speed on DH that's making the club play there at all into all this management on their age, playing hero in a really kind on Barlow. Ladies, you're really kind reaction there. So what? That's where we see the both side need to play their role on important transposed market. You said that just a one cloud, which I feel a little bit too hard right now. Try to cool down a little bit of our same age. Also, we see a very important even going forward what I been a bad security in age >> with this massive evolution that you've witnessed for a very long time. As the head of forty nine last nearly twenty years EJ cloud. How how dramatically technology changes in such a short period of time. I'm curious. Can How has your customer conversations evolved in terms of, you know, ten years ago were you talk ng more to security professionals? And now are you talking more to the C suite? As security is fundamental? Teo Digital transformation and unlocking tremendous value in both dollars in society impact has that conversation elevated as security has changed in the threat landscape has changed. >> Yeah, they do go to the board level, the CEO level now compared to like a ten, twenty years ago. Probably gaiety people maybe see so level, because security become probably the most important part of it. Now they keep you got a high high percentage that ikey spending there because when we connect everything together, we can make all the people all this business together to be on the connection. That's where security handled up, right? So that's where we see security studying kind of more. You hope me more important now. But another side, also the space also changing over quick. So that's where we always have to learn it. Woman engaged with Cosmo partner here. That's where this event is about way keeping less into what's the issue they have, how we can help the dress. All these security really the usual. Some even be honest security. Go to like a connection you for structure, some other, like architectural design, whatever their penis model there. So that's all we're very important on. Like I said, security space we need to keep in Lenny every day. Even I spent a few hours a day to Lenny. I You don't feel ready? Can K child? Oh, they >> said, It's a very dynamic world security world. >> You have our dynamic, the knowledge base, the technology refreshed quickly. Way always had to be Len have training. That's where he also see Try to position forty Niners lending company. So that's where we all for the because training program and all the train is afraid for partner for customers. All this kind is really it's a big investment. That's where a lot of people say, Oh, how can you? You've asked more in the training. You said of all come better. You must move your marketing. I say journeys of over a long term benefit. When people get trained, they also see Hey, what's the pants technology? So that's where a lot of organization, a lot of investment, really looking for. How five years here come benefit of space can benefit. The car's my partner, so that's all we see. Training's far long time measurement see modern technology. >> So can you've talked in the keynote? You've talked in the Cube about how networking security come together on how, as they move forward, they're going in form. Or they'LL have an impact on business and have an impact and other technologies. There's a lot of technology change when you talk to network in professional or even your own employees. What technologies out there do you think are going to start impacting how security works? Micro services containers? Are there any technologies that Ford that's looking at and saying, We gotta watch that really closely and that networking professionals have to pay more attention to. I >> have to say pretty much all of them, right? So all these Michael, all this contender technology, micro segmentation, according computing, the immersion lending all this is all very important because security has deal with all this different new technology application on like it was all this a huge, competent power raised on the cost lower ball corner computer. And maybe some of the old technology may not really work any more for some additional risks. Like where the equipment can be break by cute from the computing or some moderate eventually can also kind of take over. All this country is always we tryto tryto learn, tryto tried. Okay, chop every day. Hey, that that's what I say is that's so exciting. Keep you wake up, Keep your Lenny everyday, which I enjoy. But at the same time, there's a lot of young people they probably even even better than us to catch the new technology. >> Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. >> Yeah. Somehow, my kids can play the fool much greater than mere. That's always the way >> we want to thank you so much for joining Peter and me on the kid this afternoon for having the Cube back at forty nine. Accelerate and really kind of talking about how you guys are leading in the space and we're gonna be having more guests on from Fortinet. And your partner's talking about educate ecosystems and technology that you talked about in your keynote. So we thank you again for your time. And we look forward to a very successful day here. >> Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. You enjoy all this programme for many years. Thank you. >> Excellent. We love to hear that. We want to thank you for watching the Cube for Peter Burress. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube. >> Thank you.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering. Inform Attica World 2018 Not you. Buy. Inform Attica. >>Welcome back and run. Live here in Las Vegas at the Venetian Cubes coverage of In From Attica, World 2018. I'm John for the coast to queue with by host the next two days. Peter Barrister, head of research for Wicked Bonds with an Angle and the Cube. Our next two guests from Deloitte. Leo Cabrera, who's senior manager. And Rajeev Krishna, who's the specialist leader on the engineering side. CDO side guys, Thanks for joining us. Thank you, John. Thank you, Lloyd. The leader in a lot of areas, absolutely doing a lot of cutting edge stuff from c'mon, the Blockchain crypto side tax side also in the I t side. You guys have been in a great top customers here in data in from Atticus, leading the charge, looking good with the trends. But the cloud is here. Cloud scale ecosystems developing. How do you guys see in from Attica? Evolving. Going forward, Mostly great messaging. But they still got customers out there that have sold stuff. They want to bring in cloud native new data. What's what's the prospects were in from Attica. >>Foreign Formica, Saudi lawyer. We have this nuanced article data advantage and basically would consider the inflection point between what we call in just 3.0, industry for point. And it's basically now we want to get value out of the data and our data advantage strategy Focus on three pillars. They have engineering wilderness and enable men for as Informatica Isa great component and a great supporter in each of these areas. Right, So, through these study we offer video service is we offer data governance. Studio chief did offer sheet state all of it. Yeah, on. And we partner with Informatica to profile the data to understand what will be the points in which we can find value over the data on off course with the new enterprise catalog to tool to do better governance for our clients. >>I want to get under the hood. I see the catalog is getting a lot of great reviews. Some people think that this is the next big wave in data management, similar to what we've seen in other ways like well, what? Relational databases and every way that comes on cap this catalogue New kind of catalogs emerging. What's your view on this? Is it away? Visit like recycled catalog, is it? >>So get a cataloguing and data. Curation has bean going on for decades, right? But it's never gained traction on, and it's never given Klein's the value because it was so manual takes tons of effort to get it right, right. So what inform Attica is done, which is absolute breakthrough? This embed a i into their enterprise data can log into which kind of accelerates the whole data. Cataloging on basically gives them gives climbs. The value in terms of cutting down on there are packed in terms of how many people, how many data students you need to put together >>So they modernize that. Basically, they exactly all the manual stuff put automation around and put some software to find around at machine learning. Is that kind of the secret to their success? >>Absolutely. And Down Delight has been partnering with Informatica for quite a while. In fact, we are one of the few companies that have a seat on the product advice report s o what we see from the marketplace we cannot feed into in from Attica to say, Hey, here's what you need to build into your products, right? So we be doing that with their MDM solution. For example, we have what we have. Articles indium, elevate. So we build machine learning into their MP and platform and offer. That's a solution similarly, and for America has built the clear platform into their E. D. C s. Oh, that's absolutely driving Valley for clients. And we have a lot of clients that are already leveraging >>a lot of risk and platforms tools, right? I see a lot of data stuff out there that's like like a feature, not a platform, that these guys got a platform, right? So But now the world's changing the cloud. How do you guys take that data advantage program or go to a CDO and saying, Look, you gotta think differently around the data, protect you explain your view on that. >>For us, data is now the center of everything, right? So any business who want to remain competitive in the future needs to get into entire end twin management of the data, getting the value of off data and also understanding what is the data coming from and what is the day they're going to write off course is studded with all the regulations. And now GDP are coming on Friday. It is a big, you know, pusher for companies to realize that over. If >>you have a big party on Friday, a big party or is this what you Katie was a big part. Nothing happened. So you're never mean GDP. Are you guys have a lot going on there? I mean, this is the center of the conversation. >>Yeah. I mean, we do have a lot of clients who need to be compliant on GDP are on informatica is one of the tools that have already pre established the policies, so you can quickly determine where is the data that GPR is gonna be monitoring and looking for compliance on So rather than doing it from a scratch, right? So it takes a lot of it >>for Let's build on this a little bit. So when we talk about different as John was saying, different generations of data management technology, we're coming out of a generation was focused on extract, transform and load where every single application or every single new analytics application wasn't you identify the source is uniquely you build extractions unique. You'd build transformations, you build load scripts. Uniquely all that stuff was done uniquely. Now what we're saying is catalog allows us to think to move into a re use world. We've been reusing code fragments and gets and all these other things for years. In many respects, what we're talking about is the ability to bring a reuse orientation inside the enterprise to data. Have I got that right? You got it >>right. Two minutes. But the most important parties how to get value out of that, right? Because they did >>manage to get value out of using >>it more exactly And understanding, You know, how can improve your operations or you know, the bottom line, or reduce the risk that you have in your data, which is basically CPR is about, >>and one other Salin point is on very scene for America bringing values their completeness of mission. Right. So when you talk about gdp are you need different aspects, right? You need your data integration. Whether it be through cloud around. Promise you need get a governor on top of what you're cataloging, right? You need security data security. Right? So it all comes together in the hole in dramatic solutions. And I think that's very see value is supposed to like pocket pockets >>of guys. I gotta ask you a question. We've seen many ways. I think it's a big way this whole date away. But you guys, you have a term called industry four point. Oh, is what is industry but the Deloitte term. But what is that? What is industry four point? Oh, me. Can you define that? >>You wanna take that door? >>Yeah, sure. So we've seen, you know, revolutions in terms off technology and data on. We've seen people going from kind of the industrial revolution to the dark. Amira, What? Three terms in the street? Four point off where data is annoying, right? So data is an acid that needs to be completely leverage. Not just you look a reactively and retrospectively like How did we do? Right? And not even just for predictive analytics. We've seen that for a few years now. It's also about using data to drive. This is value, right? So are there new ways to monetize data? Are there new ways to leverage data and grow your business? Right? So that's what Industry four. No, no is about. >>That's awesome. Well, we got a lot of things going on here. Thanks for coming on. The Cube had a couple of questions. Got a lot of dishes going on. That preparing for the big opening of the Solutions Expo Hall. We're in the middle of all the action. You're out in the open, accused. What we do. We go out in the open final question, eyes around the CDO. Who should the chief date officer report to the C I O board? What >>do you >>guys seeing? Because the CDO now picking a strategic role if Davis the new oil. That data is the fourth wave of innovation that we've seen over centuries. What does that mean? For the chief Data Officer? More power? Why'd you report to the C i o? Why is the CEO reported the Chief Data officer? What's your take? >>Traditionally our clients in the past, where the mandate for the studios were more in the data governess, right? As of today, it is going more into enablement the data, right? So more than Analytics case. Still, service is so well seen clients going from the studio moving from under the CEO in tow, the CEO and into the CMO in some cases, more about marketing. However, at the lawyer, our proposition is that companies should do a big shift and funded the new data function as a totally new vertical next to H. R next to finance right, which have his own funding and the CDO being the leader of that function, reporting directly to the CEO or >>enablement side CEO handling much of three things engineering, governance and enablement correct. So the CEO will handle Engineering Dept. Which not just its engineering, full stack developers, possibly our cloud native developers. Governance could come into policy, normal stuff. We've seen enablement more tooling, democratization of things. >>Yeah, yeah, >>yeah. I mean, what we've been seeing right in the real world, Liss, you have, for example, finance transformation that CIA full heads, right? So there's a lot of traction at that point to kind of bring the company together. But then that soon fizzles out. Sometimes you have, ah, the CMO bringing on and marketing campaign and, you know, analytics initiative, right? There's a lot of traction. Then it fizzes out. So you need somebody at the chief data officer of the C suite level to maintain that traction that moment, Um, in order freed value. >>But it seems the key issue is someone who is focused on data as an asset generating competitive returns on data as an asset because and the reason why it could be the CEO, it could be somebody else. Historically, an i t. The asset was the hardware on the argument here is that the asset is no longer the hardware now the data data. So whoever whatever you call it, someone and a group who's focused on generating returns out of data, >>Yes. But it has to have that executive level and that new talent mortal that we're proposing right where everybody knows a little bit of data in a sense. >>And the other thing is that I mean, think about this role that's dedicated to creating value of data, right? So you can understand you know how you create value in one function. Take it to the other function and tell them Hey, here's have helped finance right, get more value and then use the same thing marketing our sales. So it's also the cross pollination of ideas across different functions in an organization. S O n roll like that is helpful in terms of >>just to say, the data could very well become the next shared service's organization. That's because you don't want your salespeople to be great with data and your marketing people to be lousy with data. >>Correct. You're totally right on that. That's what we're proposing, right? So data being another vertical in entire business, >>the Lloyd bring all the action here on the Q. With all the data they're sharing here to you. It's the Cuban John for With Peter Burst, more live cover. Stay with us. We're here in Las Vegas. Live for in from Attica, World 2018 day. One of two days of wall to wall comes here out in the open. Bringing you all the data is Thank you. Stay with us.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2018 brought to you by IBM. >> We're back at IBM Think 2018. This is theCUBE the leader and live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my cohost Peter Burst. Day two of our wall to wall coverage of IBM's inaugural Think conference. Rajesh Nambiar is here, he's the general manager of global business services for application services within IBM. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me here. >> So how's this event going for you? You're in from Singapore. We were saying you must love the fact that IBM's consolidated a lot of it's major events in one place. You get a lot done in a week. >> Absolutely, I think this is four or five days that we're going to be here. Phenomenal amount of energy, I mean when you go around you can see that. I think as you said, combining some of the events it's made it even more interesting for us. I'll be meeting more people, more clients, more productive session for sure. >> So let's talk about what you do with application services and then we really want to get in to one of the themes that Jenny hit on today which is incumbent disruptors and competing from the core of your proprietary data. So let's get in to it. Start with your organization and what you guys do. >> Absolutely, so as you mentioned and I do the application services for GBS in IBM. Within application services I think we focus on application development and management which is a large area for us and as you know that IBM has been managing applications for many, many large clients over the period of time and it's a very large portfolio for IBM. What we see truly is enterprises as you saw and they are going to have enormous amount of issues with the new age companies if you may, all of the new companies which are sort of coming out. You can call them bond digital or bond in cloud or uberization of the organizations, whatever. So you'd find that the enterprises are going to have significant issues maintaining the company advantage over a period of time. And one of the ways they could sort of regain the leadership or company advantage would be by ensuring that they are digitally reinventing themselves. The problem is, I think as Forbes said recently in an article around saying that, about 80 percent of the digital transformation projects really fail with multiple reasons as to why they fail. I want to argue saying that one of the, and you heard from Jenny this morning, that you know you have the business architecture and the technology architecture. If we focus on the technology for second, you would find that many of these new incumbents that you mentioned will, they try to compete purely on the digital side of the equation. They will have a harder chance or they might not even get where they want to go. And we want to argue saying that if they kind of pay attention to the core they have, and I want to sort of define what this core and digital is going to be, so think of it this way, I mean core is what, if any company has been around for awhile, then they would of had a significant amount of core systems, systems of records if you want to call it where they have the business process embedded into that. They have the customer data embedded into that. Now what's happening on the other side, of course everybody wants to get there, the whole digital dimension, on the digital side of the equation you do have systems of engagement, where you truly understand and engage, I want to say customers but then again also have employees of your organization. So you're going to engage them in the last mile if you may. What touches the customer, touches your employees, that's what we call systems of engagement in the digital. Now, organizations tend to see these two as two different things and if you do not build your digital eco system, leveraging what you have in core, I believe that the chances of you failing in your digital transformation are very, very high. Why is that? Because I believe the intersection of these two worlds if you may, the core and the digital, is not that easy for people to leverage and I believe that we as a company, we help our clients sort of leverage that intersection if you may. >> Okay so, where do you start? Is it application modernization? Is it allowing them to develop applications that are more sort of more native as you say? When you talk to customers where do you see the starting point? >> Okay so, when you look at these two fundamentally there are synergies between these two worlds and they are discouraged. Synergies are natural why? Because as I mentioned before, in the core or in the systems of records you'll find business processes getting embedded, customers data getting embedded. And then on the other side of the digital system, you always have the user experience which is what we all want to try. I mean the user experience is all about everything. I was talking to a bank recently (foreign name). So they said, we built this phenomenally wonderful user friendly mobile app for our customers and what happened was the app was fantastic and it was great user experience and everything was fine, he just add for every transaction it took like a minute for the balance to show up on the mobile app. That's not what he wanted because why is that? Because your focusing on the digital only. The fact that it just go to your core systems, get the customer data and bring it back to the watch app or the mobile app or whatever, that wasn't the plan that I weighed and hence my point being that if you look at the synergies which is great, there are a lot of discordance because the way that all systems are being built is very different. Maybe you're using a waterfall. The new systems are getting built in a different way. If you leverage the synergies, manage the discordant in a nicer way. A great example would be, so do you have micro services coming out of your core systems to enable your digital systems. You have the right API's getting built from the core systems to enable your digital systems. If you're able to manage this intersection well, then I think you have a play and that's how I believe that we should. So again to your point, do you modernize? I believe you do the three things to get the synergy right. One would be you are to optimize your core systems for efficiency because more and more the systems get older and older. You're going to have challenges in maintaining them, more expensive to maintain them, so you optimize those systems for efficiency. Then you modernize them to build in or enable new capability. So second, as I said modernize, what you really do, you're making sure that it is easier for the digital systems to get to you, to understand what you're doing, to get the customer data, so that is a modernized space. The third is that you have to innovate sort of co create if you may and make sure that you're able to build those newer systems, digital systems using the core and enabling the core for growth. So if you had an organization, if you want growth, you're not going to get it if you don't do these three things in my opinion. >> So Rajesh, many years ago I did a research project for a client and we looked very closely at the consequences of increasing the functionality and automation in systems of engagement and how that drove work back in the core and we found that every success of generation of enhancement on the systems of engagement, drove the number of transactions back at the core sevenfold. Are you seeing relationships like that? Is there rules of thumbs that people should use now as their systems of engagement get even more powerful, more human friendly? What is the new kind of expectation these days? >> So the issue is definitely what you said. I mean for every about seven or eight times is what you want to drive the, for every single transaction which is rising out systems of engagement. However, one of the way to make it more efficient when the systems of records, which is the core systems if you may, is by using the modern, stuff we'll be talking about, if you have designed your core systems and enabled micro services in the right way, maybe instead of having seven or eight transactions, you could be able to do that in two or three. Similarly >> Peter: Unstage them. >> Unstage them, yeah in a certain way so that you're not getting into the performance issue which I talked about in this banking example as you know, you don't want to build a wonderful digital app but having that to go through a significant performance issue over the period of time. So that is one of the things. The other important element of what he just now said is also the talent piece of it. We underestimate, I think, as we said, one of the reasons why many of these engagements fail is also because people don't think talent is a big deal in a lot of this. Because when you really see, if you're a big company, been around for awhile, you have a very strong core, and your people in the IT organization are going to be wired somewhat to the processes which are going to be sort of the ordeal if you may. And how do you move to this new world of digital? So there is a fundamental difference from the talent point of view. Two things, as an organization you're moving from process centric to user centric. Now you want to build something for your customer, for your employee. When you do that the talent base, of course their minds have changed, but also a simple example, we always hire people for skills. Maybe still, some companies still do, for skills. But I believe that's a passe because you know what do you now need is a tenacity for learnability or tenacity for a life long learning for the people whom you're hiring. Not necessarily a skill that you value today because what happens in today's world, after six months that skill is no longer valuable for you. So what do you do with them? But if you have a tenacity for life long learning, the ability for you to pick up new skills and then transform yourself will be so high that you're not stuck with people who are all skills for a long period of time. >> I was talking to a senior, a guy who owns development and he said one of the biggest impacts of open source over the last few years was that it brought the notion of responsibility, recognition, reputation, and change the way that the evolvers talk about collaboration with each other, not just in the open source world but overall. I think collaboration and new collaboration agile also has to be part of the equation. What do you think? >> Well without a question. In fact, I was about to say, collaboration's very, very key because again, when you move from process interviews as intrigue, you also find, traditionally organizations are very role based, so everybody had a role. I'm a developer, I'm a tester, I'm a architect. But in the new world, this is going to be changing into maybe parts of people who are sort of working on a garage metal. Everybody does everything. You have a smaller group of people who are able to evaluate something very, very quick and in an agile fashion as opposed to the traditional way of saying, I'm sort of role based, I have an organization and that's how they operate. So I think there's significant difference and again, I would probably say to leverage the talent for the newer market. Again there are about two or three things that one could potentially do. One would clearly be this learnability. Skills are no longer what is valued, it's the learnability. The ability for you to sort of quickly move from one to another would be valued. Second would be diversity of skills. Today we hire more people with user experience, with psychology major. You would of never thought of this 10 years ago. We never hired anybody from art school but we do that today because of... >> I was really happy. My son's a music major. >> My son is a psychology major, I was just telling you in the University of Colorado. So they get hired probably as well as already the STEM students are going to be, so that's good. (laughing) And the last one is of course, I have this notion called digital label . I don't know if you've heard this before. And Jenny talked about it today. So you're going to have man and machine, when you do that, automation is a great influencer in all of this. I think there are going to be the digital label and the human label are going to co exist. So we're calling it hybrid label. So any task that you're going to do, we will have people which is sort of high capability now, leveraging watts, which is a digital label. So that's another important thing in the talent market. >> And the laborer increasingly requires sort of multi tool skills not only domain expertise but also digital skills. >> Rajesh: Absolutely >> At least being able to understand how the leverage, the machine intelligence. I want to ask you, and I know Peter you got to go soon. But this trend with IOT, Blockchain, we saw the IV and Maersk example today where they're attacking inefficiencies where there's a third party trust involved and it's creating a trustless system. Do you see a trend toward sort of putting token economics embedded inside of applications, things like Blockchain, increasingly going into core applications? Is that a trend you're seeing yet? >> Yes, yes, I think not as much as we would like to see but I think it's beginning to sort of level up in a period of time. I think Blockchain is still, as I said, there's a more in the experimentation phase, and there are a few companies who have leveraged fully. Great example is as you saw this morning with what we're doing with the APMM Maersk, the fact that we're able to do the distribution systems within shipping. And any radio finding that there's going to be a significant amount of paperwork or transactional arrangements that are being done outside of the normal systems. I think Blockchain would be a great way to solve this issue. >> I want to tease your session a little bit. You're going talk, you got a CIO panel, what is that? >> Well the talk is actually going to be I think unlocking the value of the core system. So there's going to be something similar to what we talked about. We've got great session with three CIO's who are going to be on the panel. We're going to have the Carhartt CIO John Hill is going to be on the panel, and they've done a lot of good work in terms of truly making sure that they understood that if they don't level the core they can't really get to the digital. >> Was that CarHartt? >> Carhartt, yes. >> The only brand I wear. >> Really? (laughing) >> They'll be interesting, then KLM with (mumbling) with their history of the core that they've had for several years and how they're really moving into the new digital era and then being sort of a customer friendly airline if you may, so he's going to talk about some of that. And then we also have the TPX which is the communications organization which they've done gone through about 12 acquisitions over the last 12 years, so one a year pretty much. How are they integrating all of those companies and how are they really putting them together into sort of one system. >> Peter: And when is that session? >> That session's on Thursday morning at 11:30, I hope you guys are there to watch that. I'm worried because it's the last day. >> It's a getaway day but listen, a good day to go down and check it out because that notion of what incumbents should be doing and competing from the core is very, very important idea. So Rajesh thanks for coming on theCUBE and explaining that. Best of luck to you tomorrow and great to see you. >> Thank you so much, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is CUBE, you're watching live from IBM Think 2018. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City. It's the Cube. Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to by Infor. >> Welcome back to the cube's coverage of Inforum here at the Javits center in New York City. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Dave Vellante, and Jim Kobielus who is the lead analyst for Wikibon in AI. So guys we're wrapping up day one of this conference. What do we think? What did we learn? Jim you've been, we've been here at the desk, interviewing people, and we've certainly learned a lot from them, but you've been out there talking to people, and off the record I should say. >> Yeah. >> So give us. >> I'm going to name names. >> Yes. >> If I may, I want to clarify something. >> Yeah, okay, sorry. >> I said this morning that the implied valuation was like three point seven, three point eight billion. >> Rebecca: Okay. >> Charles Phillips indicated to us off camera actually it was more like 10 and a half billion. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But I still can't make the math work. So I'm working on that. >> Okay. >> I suspect what's happened, was that a pre debt number. Remember they have a lot of debt. >> Yes. >> So I will figure it out, find out, and report back, okay. >> You do. >> So I just wanted to clarify that. >> Run those numbers okay. >> I'll call George. >> Kay, right, but Jim back to you. What do think is the biggest impression you have of the day in terms of where Infor is? >> Yeah, I've had the better part of this day to absorb the Coleman announcement which of course, ya know AI is one my core focus areas at Wikibon, and it really seems to me that, well Infor's direct competitors are the ERP space of all in cloud it's SAP, it's Oracle, it's Microsoft. They all have AI investments strategies going for in their ERP portfolios. So I was going back, and doing my own research today, just to get my head around where does Coleman put Infor in the race, cause it's a very competitive race. I referred to it this morning maybe a little bit extremely as a war of attrition, but what I think is that Coleman represents a milestone in the development of the ERP cloud, ERP market. Where with SAP, Oracle, and Microsoft, they're all going deep on AI and ERP, but none of them has the comprehensive framework or strategy to AI enable their suites for human augmentation, ya know, natural language processing, conversational UI's, Ya know, recommenders in line to the whole experience of ya know inventory management, and so forth. What infor has done with Coleman is laid out a, more than just a framework and a strategy, but they've got a lot of other assets behind the whole AI first strategy, that I think will put in them in good steady terms of innovating within their portfolio going forward. One of which is they've got this substantial infusion of capital from coke industries of course, and coke is very much as we've heard today at this show very much behind where the infor team under Charles is going with AI enabling everything, but also the Burst team is now on board with it, and the acquisition closed last month Brad Peters spoke this morning, and of course he spoke yesterday at the analyst pre-brief, and so David and I have more than 24 hours to absorb, what they're saying about where Burst fits into this. Burst has AI assets all ready. That, ya know Infor is very much committed to converging the best of what Burst has with where Coleman is going throughout their portfolio. What Infor announced this morning is all of that. Plus the fact that they've already got some Colemanize it's a term I'm using, applications in their current portfolio. So it's not just a future statement of direction. It's all that they've already done. Significant development and productization of Coleman, and they've also announced a commitment Infor with in the coming year, to bring, to introduce Coleman features throughout each of the industry vertical suite, cloud suites, like I said, human augmentation, plus automation, plus assistants, that are ya know, chat bots sort of inline. In other words, Infor has a far more ambitious and I think, potentially revolutionary strategy to really make ERP, to take ERP away from the legacy of protecters that have all been based on deterministic business rules, that a thicket, a rickety thicket of business rules that need to be maintained. Bringing it closer to the future of cognitive applications, where the logic will be in predictive, and deterministic, predictive, data driven algorithms that are continually learning, continually adapting, continually optimizing all interactions and transactions that's the statement of direction that I think that Infor is on the path to making it happen in the next couple of years in a way that will probably force SAP, Oracle, Microsoft to step up their game, and bring their cognitive or AI strategies in portfolios. >> So I want to talk some more about the horse in the track, but I want to still understand what it is. >> Jim: Yes. >> So the competitors are going to say is oh. It's Alexa. Okay, okay it is partially. >> Jim: Yeah sure. It's very reductive that's their job to reduce. >> Yeah you're right, you've lived that world for a while. Actually that was not your job, so. >> If you don't understand technology, you're just some very smart guy who talks a good talk. >> Yeah, okay. >> So, yeah. >> So, okay, so what we heard yesterday in the analyst meeting, and maybe you found this out today, was is conversational UX. >> Yes. >> It's chat wired into the APIs, and that's table stakes. It augments, it automates, an example is early payments versus by cash on hand. Should I take the early payment deal, and take the discount, or, and so it helps decide those decisions, and which can, if you have a lot of volume could be complex, and it advises it uncovers insights. Now what I don't know is how much of the IP is ya know, We'em defense essentially from Amazon, and how much is actual Infor IP, ya know. >> Good question, good question, whether it's all organically developed so far, or whether they've sourced it from partners, is an open issue. >> Question for Duncan Demarro. >> Duncan Demarra, exactly. >> Okay, so who are the horses in the track. I mean obviously there's Google, there's Amazon, there's I guess Facebook, even though they're not competing in the enterprise, there's IMB Watson, and then you mentioned Oracle, and SAP. >> Well, here's the thing. You named at least one of those solution providers, IBM for example, provides obviously a really sophisticated, cognitive AI suite under Watson that is not imbedded however, within an ERP application suite from that vendor. >> No it's purpose built for whatever. >> It's purpose built for stand alone deployment into all manner of applications. What Infor is not doing with Coleman, and they make that very clear, they're not building a stand alone AI platform. >> Which strategy do you like better. >> Do I like? They're both valid strategies. First of all, Infor is very much a sass vendor, going forward in that they don't they haven't given any indications of going into past. I mean that's why they've partnered with Amazon, for example. So it's clear for a sass vendor like Infor going forward to do what they've done which is that they're not going to allow their customers apparently to decouple the Coleman infrastructure from everything else that ya know, Infor makes money on. >> Which for them is the right strategy. >> Yeah, that's the right strategy for them, and I'm not saying it's a bad strategy for anybody who wants to be in Infor's market. >> So what is in Oracle, or in a SAP, or for that matter, a work day do, I mean service now made some AI announcements at their knowledge event. So they're spending money on that. I think that was organic IP, or I don't know maybe they're open swamps AI compenents. >> Sure, sure, A they need to have a cloud data platform that provides the data upon which to build and train the algorithm. Clearly Infor has cast a slot with AWS, ya know, SAP, Microsoft, Orcale, IBM they all have their own cloud platform. So >> And GT Nexus plays into that data corpus or? >> Yeah, cause GT Nexus is very much a commerce network, ya know, and there is EDI for this century, that is a continual free flowing, ever replenishing, pool of data. Upon which to build and train. >> Okay, but I interrupted you. You said number one, you need the cloud platform with data. >> Ya need the conversational UI, you know, the user reductive term chat bots, ya know, digital assistant. You need that technology, and it ya know, it's very much a technology in the works, its' not like. Everybody's building chat bots, doesn't mean that every customer is using them, or that they perform well, but chat bots are at the very heart of a new generation of application development conversational interfaces. Which is why Wikibon, why are are doing a study, on the art of building, and training, and tuning chat bots. Cause they are so fundamental to the UX of every product category in the cloud. >> Rebecca: And only getting more so. >> IOT, right, desk top applications. Everything's going with , moving towards more of a conversational interface, ya know. For starters, so you need a big data cloud platform. You need a chat bot framework, for building and ya know, the engagement, and ya know, the UI and all of that. You need obviously, machine learning, and deep learning capabilities. Ya know, open source. We are looking at a completely open source stack in the middle there for all the data. Ya know, you need obviously things like tenserflow for deep learning. Which is becoming the standard there. Things like Spark, ya know, for machine learning, streaming analytics and so forth. You need all that plumbing to make it happen, but you need in terms of ERP of course, you need business applications, and you need to have a business application stacked to infuse with this capability, and there's only a hardcore of really dominant vendors in that space. >> But the precious commodity seems to be data. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Precious commodity is data both to build the algorithms, and an ongoing basis to train them. Ya see, the thing is training is just as important as building the algorithms cause training makes all the difference in the world between whether a predictive analytics, ya know ML algorithm actually predicts what it's supposed to predict or doesn't. So without continual retraining of the algorithms, they'll lose their ability to do predictions, and classifications and pattern recognitions. So, ya know, the vendors in the cloud arena who are in a good place are the Googles and the Facebooks, and others who generate this data organically as part of their services. Google's got YouTube, and YouTube is mother load of video and audio and so forth for training all the video analytics, all the speech recognition, everything else that you might want to do, but also very much, ya know, you look at natural language processing, ya know, text data, social media data. I mean everybody is tapping into the social media fire hose to tune all the NLP, ongoing. That's very, very important. So the vendor that can assemble a complete solution portfolio that provides all the data, and also very much this something people often overlook, training the data involves increasingly labeling the data, and labeling needs a hardcore of resources increasingly crowdsource to do that training. That's why companies like Crowd Flower, and Mighty AI, and of course Amazon with mechanical terf are becoming evermore important. They are the go to solution providers in the cloud for training these algorithms to keep them fit for purpose. >> Mmm, alright Rebecca, what are your thoughts as a sort of newbie to Infor. >> I'm a newbie yes, and well to be honest, yes I'm a newbie, and I have only an inch wide, an inch deep understanding of the technology, but one thing that has really resonated with me. >> You fake it really well. >> Well, thank you, I appreciate that, thank you. That I've really taken away from this is the difficulties of implementing this stuff, and this what you hear time and time again. Is that the technology is tough, but it's the change management piece that is what trips up these companies because of personalities who are resistant to it, and just the entrenched ways of doing things. It is so hard. >> Yes, change management, yes I agree, there's so many moving parts in these stacks, it's incredible. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> If you we just focus on the moving parts that represent the business logic that's driving all of this AI, that's a governance mess in it's own right. Because what you're governing, I mean version controls and so forth, are both traditional business rules that drive all of these applications, application code, plus all of these predictive algorithms, model governance, and so forth, and so on. I mean just making sure that all of that is, you're controlling versions of that. You've got stewards, who are managing the quality of all that. Then it moves in lock step with each other so. >> Rebecca: Exactly. >> So when you change the underlying coding of a chat bot, for example, you're also making sure to continue to refresh and train, and verify that the algorithms that were built along with that code are doing their job, so forth. I'm just giving sort of this meta data, and all of that other stuff that needs to be managed in a unified way within, what I call, a business logic governance framework for cloud data driven applications like AI. >> And in companies that are so big, and where people are so disparately located, these are the biggest challenges that companies are facing. >> Yeah, you're going to get your data scientists in lets say China to build the deep learning algorithms, probably to train them, your probably going to get coders in Poland, or in Uruguay or somewhere else to build the code, and over time, there'll be different pockets of development all around the world, collaborating within a unified like dev ops environment for data science. Another focus for us by the way, dev ops for data science, over time these applications like any application, it'll be year after year, after year of change and change. The people who are building and tuning and tweaking This stuff now probably weren't the people five years ago, as this stuff gets older, who built the original. So you're going to need to manage the end to end life cycle, ya know like documentation, and change control, and all that. It's a dev ops challenge ongoing within a broader development initiative to keep this stuff from flying apart from the sheer complexity. >> Rebecca: Yes. >> So, just I don't Jim, if you can help me answer this, this might be more of a foyer sort of issue, but when we heard from the analyst meeting yesterday, Soma, their chief technical guy, who's been on the Cube before in New Orleans, very sharp dude, Two things that stood out. Remember that architecture slide, they showed? They showed a slide of the XI and the architecture, and obviously they're building on AWS cloud. So their greatest strengths are in my view, any way the achilles heel is here, and one is edge. Let's talk about edge. So edge to cloud. >> Jim : Yes. >> Very expensive to move data into the cloud, and that's where ya know, we heard today that all the analysis is going to be done, we know that, but you're really only going to be moving the needles, presumably, into the cloud. The haystacks going to stay at the edge, and the processing going to be done at the edge, it's going to be interesting to see how Amazon plays there. We've seen Amazon make some moves to the edge with snowball, and greenfield and things like that, and but it just seems that analytics are going to happen at the edge, otherwise it's going to be too expensive. The economic model doesn't favor edge to cloud. One sort of caveat. The second was the complexity of the data pipeline. So we saw a lot of AWS in that slide yesterday. I mean I wrote down dynamo DB, kineses, S3 redshift, I'm sure there's some EC2. These are all discreet sort of one trick pony platforms with a proprietary API, and that data pipeline is going to get very, very complex. >> Flywheel platforms I think when you were talking to Charles Phillips. >> But when you talk to Andy Jasse, he says look we want to have access to primitive access to those APIs. Cause we don't know what the markets going to do. So we have to have control. It's all about control, but that said, it's this burgeoning collection of at least 10 to 15 data services. So the end to end, the question I have is Oracle threw down the gauntlet in cloud. They said they'll be able to service any user request in a 150 milliseconds. What is the end to end performance going to be as that data pipeline gets more robust, and more complicated. I don't know the answer to that, but I think it's something to watch. Can you deliver that in under 150 milliseconds, can Oracle even do that, who knows? >> Well, you can if you deliver more of the actual logic, ya know, machine learning and code to the edge, I mean close the user, close to the point of decision, yes. Keep in mind that the term pipeline is ambiguous here. One one hand, it refers, in many people's minds to the late ya know, the end to end path of a packet for example, from source to target application, but in the context of development or dev ops it refers to the end to end life cycle of a given asset, ya know, code or machine learning, modeling and so forth. In context of data science in the pipeline for data science much of the training the whole notion of training, and machine learning models, say for predictive analysis that doesn't happen in real time in line to actual executing, that happens, Ya know, it happens, but it doesn't need it's not inline in a critical path of the performance of the application much of that will stay in the cloud cause that's massively parallel processing, of ya know, of tensorflow, graphs and so forth. Doesn't need to happen in real time. What needs to happen in real time is that the algorithms like tensorflow that are trained will be pushed to the edge, and they'll execute in increasingly nanoscopic platforms like your smartphone and like smart sensors imbedded in your smart car and so forth. So the most of the application logic, probabilistic ya know, machine learning, will execute at the edge. More of the pipeline functions like model building, model training and so forth, data ingest, and data discovery. That will not happen in real time, but it'll happen in the cloud. It need not happen in the edge. >> Kind of geeky topics, but still one that I wanted to just sort of bring up, and riff on a little bit, but let's bring it back up, and back into sort of. >> And this is the thing there's going to be a lot more to talk about. >> Geeking out Rebecca, we apologize. >> You do indeed, it's okay, it's okay. >> Dave indulges me. >> No, you love it too. >> Of course, no I learn every time I try to describe these things, and get smart people like Jim to help unpack it, and so. >> And we'll do more unpacking tomorrow at two day of Inforum 2017. Well, we will all return. Jim Kobielus, Dave Vellante, I'm Rebecca Knight. We will see you back here tomorrow for day two. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube. Covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of Inforum 2017. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dhiraj Shah. He is the C.E.O of Avaap. Thanks so much for joining us. You're a Cube veteran. >> My pleasure. >> So welcome back >> Yeah. >> I should say. >> Absolutely. >> Not a rookie anymore. >> Right, right, right. So Avaap is a major strategic partner with Infor. So just walk us, Tell our viewers a little bit more about the relationship and where we are. >> Absolutely. Avaap's been a partner with Infor now for the last six years and prior to that, with Lawson. We've certainly come a long way. We started it 11 years ago as a single individual. Last year when we were here, we were here as a platinum sponsor and the big announcement this year is we're a diamond sponsor. So it doesn't get larger and add great stage presence and one of the big announcements we had this year, was Go Live with Infor's new CloudSuite Financial. The first customer to go live on that Palos Help, was actually an Avaap customer, that we brought live in nine months. >> And they were mentioned in the keynotes. >> Yes, Roger was on main stage. Gave a great presentation and what we centered our belief in, is you have the enterprise software provider, which is Infor, in this case, you have the system integrator, which is Avaap and then you have the customer. For any successful outcome, you need all three of these to really partner and do well. And that's what was exhibited with Palos. >> I'm always interested in companies that place bets on an ecosystem and the leader of that ecosystem is somewhat obscure. Certainly was six years ago. I mean, I saw this in the service now community. You're a hot company. You're growing like crazy and I saw early on, companies like yours in their community say we're going to make a bet and they've done very well. They've succeeded wildly, then get acquired by Accenture and CSC, so maybe great things ahead in your future. But take us back to the decision to bet on Infor. What led to that decision. >> Absolutely, looking back is always great right? Then you know the bets have paid off. But when you make 'em, it's not the same. Our business was, prior to 2012 when we made this decision, was centered around Lawson. We had some staff augmentation business and we had micro strategy BI business. And in 2011, Infor acquired Lawson. And when Infor acquired Lawson, there was a huge amount of apprehension in the customer base. Cause everybody was thinking here comes the external team that's going to come and annihilate the customer base. >> Dave: Yeah in the private equity cash suckout. >> Yeah, so that's what they're going to do. I had the opportunity to listen to Charles and his executive team, in one of their first meetings. And Charles was very clear in his vision. He said two things I want to focus on. One, build software that's easier to use, that's beautiful and that's not upgraded every year. And the second thing was, industry focus. Now six years go, you look at the enterprise software platforms, SAP, Oracle, nobody had industry focus. It was the same piece of software, one size fits all. And Charles came in and said, industry specific software. So we bought into that vision and we said this is going to be a huge opportunity in the ecosystem and fast forward six years. We were about 20 people at that time as a entire company. We have 25 people here at Inforum. more people just attending and 450 consultants globally now. >> You know Charles Phillips is a real, is a true software visionary because if you go back a decade plus a go. If you were an industry specialist, you were a VAR. Yes, Yes >> and you weren't going to to have a multi-billion dollar valuation. That was not a way to make the big dollars, right and so it is still, was, sort of a somewhat risky bet. >> It definitely was. Cause it seems we were much smaller back then but still to shut down those businesses over night and I still have the letter that we wrote to our customers and our employees and said we believe in this and that belief has really catapulted both our organizations It's really helped Infor and it's helped Avaap to kind of, and that's one of the lessons I learned as an entrepreneur. That wonderful things happen when you focus and build really strong partnerships. >> So that letter will some day be in a museum, I'm sure but. >> Dhiraj: I think we, from your mouth to God's ears. >> But let's talk about that. That easy to use, beautiful software that is transforming specific industries. >> Dhiraj: Yeah. >> Let's talk about retail. >> Yes. Absolutely. So retail was a huge announcement last year, when they announced they're going to go after Infor as a company and build a new wordicle. We invested alongside them as their single largest partner to go and give support. What they were doing around Retail is multiple things. Because prior to this, what Infor had was a ERP platform. Financials, human capital management. What they wanted to invest is we write the merchandising system, which is at the heart of a retailer. Not been done for the last 20 years. And they're rewriting and made an announcement with the best retailer, Whole Foods and that project kind of kicked off. The second piece they did was they filled in a gap with merchandise financial planning, assortment planning by buying a company called Predictings. So Avaap, kind of went ahead of it and we started a project alongside them over the past year and now we're independently going to markets. So Payless, we just signed a contract to implement merchandise financial planning for them. And then the final leg to this will be the point of sales, which would be StarMount, which is another system that they acquired and now the whole story around retail is coming in. Cause as we hear, retail's really getting hurt. And there's a huge technology change happening in the market place. >> Now, does GT Nexus fit into that as well, in terms of compressing the, you know if you build to order, kind of. Somebody's was giving an example of a couch today. You order a couch from some retail store and it takes 12 weeks to deliver. We've all sort of been there. Does it fit into that equation? >> You know it does. Because there's a whole shipping, receiving and the point of contacts through that guy that comes into the play there and GT Nexus, as you saw on the stage today, the amount of traffic that's being used through GT Nexus, it's going to help a lot of the retailers from all they're receiving and mobile supply chain functionality. >> Let me say real consumer frustration. You order something and you wait and you wait and you wait and you're excited and all of a sudden, weeks later you get the notification, sorry. >> Rebecca: Yeah. >> It's going to either be delayed or sorry we can't deliver that. So that's lost revenue. I mean, how many times does that happen? >> Yes and when you go to website, it's a different order. When you go to a mobile page, it's a different order. >> Dave: Oh yeah. >> When yo go into the store, it's a different order. So bringing all of that together for the single back office user experience is really what is going to transform the user experience to your point. >> So, speaking at another industry or user experience and this is, more important than buying a couch, let's say your health. Then this is another way in which Infor and Avaap are really transforming of the way we shop for medical care. So give us an example of what you're doing. >> Absolutely. We're very passionate about health care. So health care is our largest wordicle by size. So about 75 percent of our business is in health care and Infor has a large presence, Two thirds of the hospitals in the nation use Infor for their ERP software. Give a simple example, we were talking retail earlier. When you go into a retail store and you want to buy a piece of clothing, you know what it's going to cost you to purchase that and the store knows what their cost is for that, cause everything's coming from a single system. In hospital's case, there are two key systems. We have EHR, which the electronic medical system and you have your ERP, which is your back office system. Your revenue, comes from your EHR system, which is typically an Epic or Asserner. And your cost information comes from your lossing system, which is 75 percent of the time, Infor. They don't talk to each other. Now the acquisition of Burst gives a tremendous opportunity for us to connect the two systems together, bring that data forward, so the hospital operators know, at the time of admission and check out, what was the revenue and what was the cost, so they can do margin analysis. >> So you can see how that benefits the hospital but it also benefits the customer. >> In the end of the day, >> The patient. >> Absolutely. Because patient outcome is what's at the heart of all the changes that we're driving toward and when there's a lot, We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars that hospitals are burning in inefficient systems right now. And if that's saved, where's that going to go? Towards better care. And that's where dollars need to be focused. Not in holes that need to be plugged in technology. >> So Dhiraj, explain where Avaap specifically adds value. Where do you pick up from the technology that Infor provides? >> Absolutely. So prior to a year ago, our focus was just on the Infor side of the platform with ERP and a year ago, we acquired a company called Falcon Consulting. Best in class, top category leader for revenue cycle, to bring an Epic expertise. So now, we have both the EHR expertise and the ERP expertise. And in fact, this was our first foray outside of Infor and we got permissions form the Infor executive team, cause this we saw as a strategic way to service the entire health care ecosystem. And that's really helped us get knowledge from both sides to now build the integration platform to service. >> And so is it the full life cycle of plan, design, implement and manage? I mean, you start with strategy and? >> Yeah, so we're starting with the office of the CIO and CFO and organizational readiness and talking about strategy consulting. Vendor selection, ERP and after, once we get into the actual implementation cycle, that's where we do the implementation of the ERP or the EHR. Once implementation is done, the third piece of it will be optimization cause most systems that implement are not optimized. You know, they're on the same archaic system that were implemented many, many years ago. And then the final piece to that is continued support. As technology is evolving so fast. You heard Charles speak about so many new technology. It's hard for customers to keep up, so we do outsource application manage service to help support their. >> So talk just a little bit more about the whole microvertical strategy. We're interested in . I mean obviously, it's real. >> Dhiraj: Absolutely. >> But what is the impact to you as a partner and your customers. >> That was a new concept for us. Cause we saw it, okay Wordicle, great and then Charles came and said, 'No No Wordicle is not enough, it's microwordicle.' So one of our businesses is manufacturing. So you take the business of process manufacturing, the process manufacturing for your brewer versus your baker versus your food distributor, very different. So we then started taking Infor's product and started building applications in the presentation layer that are adapted for those industries. So CloudSuite Food and Beverage has a variation. So Old Neighborhood Foods is one of our top customers and they're one of the largest suppliers of all porks in the northeast. So how do everything that goes behind the making of the sausage and all the recipes, all of that is very different in a business, than Albert, say if Albert's since then got a bakery that we're implementing the same product. >> Dave: And you add that value? >> Yes. >> That's a custom code that you write or? >> No, these are using Infor's tools because Infor has presentation layer tools that we use to build microwordicle specification. Reporting analytics, all of those are driven for those industries. >> So you're composing the tooling. >> Dhiraj: Correct. Correct. >> Essentially is what you're doing. So is there any application development? Any low code or is it all no code? >> Zero code on the application side. Cause that's what, being in a cloud, that's one of the controls that come in. So the systems of the 70's were all customized in the application layer and then every time there was an upgrade, you would have to go through a huge exercise to retro fit them. All of that goes away. Beause with the cloud, you don't have control of the application wear. So all these tools that I'm talking about reside in the presentation layer. >> Okay, do you run into situations though, where you say, it would be nice if I had this custom modification and what happens in that situation. You go back to Infor and ask them for it or do you say to those guys, Hey can you extend your platform to give me a low code development capability or some kind of pass layer that. >> That's a very good question and that's a real world problem that our delivery team faces and we had to mature ourselves to. I would say a majority of the case. 80 to 90 percent of the case, we go back to the customer, to have a conversation with them to adjust their process. Most, eight out of ten times, it's the customer that doesn't want to change the process. >> Dave: Yes of course. >> And that's why they want the software to fit that. We've learned through the chain management mechanisms to have educated conversations with the customers cause it's a lot more painful to change the software than to do that. In the two out of ten cases, there are exceptions of building plug-ins or going to Infor. So one of the things with our partnership with Infor, we actually give, have a direct line with their product development team and if there's a change that customers are requesting that others would benefit from, it quickly gets into their queue and then it's part of the product set. >> Well that's interesting. That's a whole nother line of questioning now because you think about the old days of technology. Technology was so mysterious. But the process you knew, right? >> Yes. >> And today, it's changing. Technology is pretty much demystified. Everybody has AI, right. But it's the process that becomes somewhat unknown. Think about IOT and the Edge and these are all, these are sort of wild west processes. >> Most often overlooked cause for project failure is chain management and organizational readiness. And that's the part we lead in with to ensure organizations understand the investment they make in ERP is not just getting a vendor to come in and do this plug and play but to have their organization adapt to what the technology really is best suited for. >> That's great. Well Dhiraj, thank you so much for joining us on The Cube. >> Well thank you. >> It's been a fun >> it was real pleasure. >> a fun conversation. >> Yeah. >> Enlightening. >> Look forward to it. >> Enlightening even to Dave. >> Absolutely, I always learn. >> Yeah. Alright, thank you. >> Thank you for joining us. We'll have more from The Cube at Inforum 2017 in a bit. >> Dhiraj: Thank you. Alright.

>> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's The Cube, covering Inforum 2017. Brought to you by, Infor. >> Welcome back to Inforum 2017. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We're joined by Marc Scibelli, he is the chief creative officer here at Infor. Thanks so much for returning to The Cube. >> Thanks for having me again, it's good to see you guys. >> So last year, the big announcement was H and L Digital, Hook and loop digital. Bring us up to speed, give us a status update of where you are now. >> Well we're a year later, I think what's really important is that we've established our application development framework, which allows us to rapidly deploy our prototypes, rapidly deploy the projects we're working on for a lot of customers. We've had a lot of wins over the last year. We're working closely with Brooklyn Sports, both the basketball team and the stadium and entertainment center. We're working with Travis Perkins, we're working with American Express. So we've got a lot of great client wins in our belt. We've learned a lot over the last year, but most importantly we've been able to actually fine tune our application development framework to bring that stuff to market very quickly for our customers, which has been a very big deal for us. >> So you mentioned a couple of client wins, Brooklyn Sports, let's unpack that a little bit, tell me a little about, tell our viewers specifically what's gone on. >> Yeah so, Brooklyn Nets basketball team here in the U.S., player performance a little bit down, so we're working with the performance coaches, we're working with the telemetric data that's coming out from the players. Things as it pertains to the arc of the ball throw, or the scale to models of how they perform or how much sleep they're getting. We're tying into a lot of IOT devices that the players use. We're bringing all that data into one place for the performance coaches and then allowing them to make better decisions on the field, on the court, in real time. So you'll see actually, behind you guys is our half court. We've actually set up a half court to show some of that data that we're bringing in about player performance. We actually run an NBA player assessment and show your player readiness, I hit like an eight percent readiness (Dave and Rebecca laugh) >> Rebecca: There's still time. >> Yeah five, eight I didn't think I was going to get very far in the NBA. >> High single digits. >> High, yeah, high, real high. So we're working a lot around player performance, certainly. And also with Brooklyn Sports Entertainment around the Barclay Center here in Brooklyn, how they can start to brand that experience. Nobody really has an affinity for an arena, you go and see Beyoncé or you go to watch the Nets. You don't really think about going to the Barclays Center, so how do you start as soon as they walk in the door, engaging with the customer using technology to drive all this value all the way through. How do you find the shortest beverage and bar line. How do you find the cleanest bathroom. How do you find, to get beverage and drinks and food delivered to your seat. That's all going to be technology that's going to drive that. A lot of our clients we've installed the digital backbone underpinning of that with our cloud suite. And now it's our job to commit a certain, creating these apps that differentiate them in the market place, help Barclays compete against other next-gen stadiums. >> So the Nets example it's similar to Moneyball but different, so he's talking the arc of the ball and so the remediation of some of those, the optimization of some of those, is just different training patterns or different exercises or drills that they could do. Whereas Moneyball it's like this unseen value, unbased percentage for example, are there analogs to Moneyball? Like I was listening to an interview with an owner the other day and the interviewer was beating him up about one player and he said well if you look at the deeper analytics, I'm like oh, deeper analytics what does that mean? So are there deeper analytics? >> Absolutely, you know we've left a lot of the basketball to the basketball professionals. When we started this thing the GM said to us, "Should we really get this started with" "you guys? What do you know about basketball?" We looked around and it was like an Englishman next to me and myself and we're like we don't know a lot about basketball but we hope that, that's what you're bringing to the table. We know a lot about how to bring the data science together, we can bring the AI in, we can bring all that together for your performance coaches and work with them Just like we didn't know a lot about farming and agriculture but we can work with feed companies to help them optimize for their customers. So it's not about what we knew about basketball but up to your point, those performance coaches are definitely finding those little nuggets of data to help those teams perform better. I couldn't tell you more off the top of my head cause that's how little I know about basketball. My eight percent performance rating will show you that, but they are looking inside that data and able to find that. And the trick is bringing it to them in real-time, bringing it so that they don't have to go into deep excel documents. That's what they were doing before. It was all stored in excel and they had to go through it and maybe somebody make a pivot table or something. >> Rebecca: Or watching play tapes. >> Or watching play, absolutely, of course. And by being able to assess all of that data too as well and bring that into the feed and be able to actually assess that and report it back into the larger system we're providing. It gives them a lot more visibility so they can find those little nuggets that they know as basketball professionals. >> And Burst is part of this solution? >> Not currently, no, but certainly we will be needing the Burst into that play, yeah. >> So Thomas Perkins is another example -- >> Marc: Travis Perkins. >> Travis Perkins, I'm sorry, that you mentioned. What kind of things are you doing there to make make that company able to really use data more wisely? >> So Travis Perkins, one of the largest building manufacturing supply company in the U.K. over 2000 distribution locations across England, very strong in its footprint. It's a really strong brand in terms of, sort of the Home Depot of the U.K. They put in M3 last year, it was a big announcement and it was a very large initiative for them and that's the digital backbone we talk about. So now it's our job we're coming in now we're automating a lot of their systems for their distribution centers so they get a better customer experience. So when I go into a Travis Perkins distribution center, I can get what I need much quicker so that's kind of the baseline thing that we come in and do. We look at ways to optimize for example if I could fah-bin with my truck and actually just pull my truck fah-bin, you know it's me, my order is ready. I don't need to get out of the truck, they pack my truck and I just drive out the other side. How do we create engagements for visibility models for the distribution managers to be able to see what's selling, what's not selling. Who's performing, who's not performing. Those are the things that we do as the baseline of the experience and then additionally to that, we look at new business models with them. So we're actually helping them think about new ways that they can create subscription models or ecosystem models. So, for example working on, they're working on the tool locker rental, setting up a,basically locker or rental facility, then using software to be able to access that locker and then you sort of create a subscription model to that. I'm able to just pull up, punch in a code, that's my tool locker, I get my tools right out of it and I can drive right off. And then doing it in places geographically that make a lot of sense for them. So that's kind of the best time, I think we get these signature experiences and optimize on top of the backbone, but then we create these whole new business transformation models of these companies, that's really exciting, really helpful. >> So retail's an interesting example everybody's got an amazon war-room trying figure out how to compete, where they can add value. What have you seen specifically in the retail business? >> I just moderated a panel with the CIO of DSW and the COO of Crate and Barrel on either side of me and it was exciting to see their, they feel a disruption but they're certainly eager to take it over. So, on the Crate and Barrel side we're seeing them be, really beat up by the Wayfairs of the world, three billion dollar valuation. They can get the market much quicker, they're running products in a much different way. Where Crate and Barrel has a much longer lead timer, the CPQ model. They've got to configure pricing, quoting, get it out. Takes 12 weeks to get a couch. How do you get, on the supply chain side, how do you get that shorter. So they're working with Infor to get that supply chain shorter. So they can compete on a shorter lead times but we're coming in to help them do is also look at how can you start to create experiences while you're waiting for that couch to be produced. Or while your shopping online what are things that you can do to know how long it'll take to get that item. And now that we just take all that digital backbone of that supply chain and create new experiences for it. On the DSW side we've been working really closely with them on point of sale as well as deep customer experience, apps for them with their employees. They really see their employees as the key tool to driving loyalty to their stores. So, we've been working on brand new apps in the mobile space that'll help their employees be able to serve their customers a lot better, have a much more tied loyalty program to their job performance with the customer's loyalty. So, a lot of great things there that we're working hard on. But certainly it's a massive behemoth of competing against amazon as a retailer. >> So what's your advice then for a company that is, and you're talking about companies that are already being very thoughtful and planful about this transformation, and understanding first of all that they need to transform, that they need to change or else they'll be left behind. So what's your advice for companies that are just starting on it? >> I think we kind of look at this as a holistic approach, we cannot take a little nibble bite-size out of the problem. So when it comes to digital looking at the entire ecosystem, looking at the operations, looking at the customers, looking at the employee. Saying what are we doing on our core backbone of the operations to make that run efficiently, to automate that. Let's do that, let's get that out of the way of all those people, let's make that run as quickly, as streamline as possible. Our cloud suite certainly help companies do that. And then, let's look at how we can start to transform the way they do their, they function inside their business by creating these functionally integrated models between all three. Between the operations, the customer and the employee. And let's create new experiences that live on top of that of that backbone that drive new value and until you do that, until you leverage your brand, like Crate and Barrel can leverage their brand if they just shorten that supply chain and start to optimize how they deliver. DSW can leverage their brand as a shoe warehouse if they provide a larger assortment and a better experience in-store, they can compete against amazon. So, to do that, we need them to, I would recommend companies, think of the approach holistically and not as a small little bites of just let's create this app and this one app is going to solve our problems. It's not, you got this much larger holistic approach you need to take. >> What percent of the Infor portfolio has Hook and Loop touched, affected? >> So, Hook and Loop core, certainly the GA products have touched everything. You'll see tomorrow on-stage Nunzio Esposito, our new head of Hook and Loop core. Who's running the business that when I first met you, I was running. They're doing very well and they've touched, I would say percentage-wise, 80% of the product if not more. Certainly their products are driving our business, like EAM, ACM financials, they have re-invented. And you'll see it tomorrow, they have done some incredible work. They just, they'll be releasing tomorrow, it's pretty exciting, a new UX for an entire cloud suite, so that pretty incredible. How Colman will be integrated into our cloud, it's a big deal so how do you create UX for that. And then certainly of course, how much UX and UY do you take away because you introduced Colman. You could take a lot of UX and UY away, a lot of functionality gets stripped away. So it's changed the methodologies we've used in the Hook and Loop core team but Ninzio has done a great job challenging himself to do that. >> Rebecca you were saying when you read the press releases around Infor they use terms like beautiful and so it's very apple-esque. Where do you get your inspiration? >> I think it's the consumer great products we talked about years ago when I first met you. The idea that how I function, like daily life at home, should echo how I function at work. Certainly now we're getting inspiration for how companies that are born digitally are creating these models that drive them. How we can help other companies do that as well. so, we're inspired by everything that touches us. To be honest , I still use my TEVO, I might be the only person left, (Dave and Rebecca laughing) That's not true they're doing very well >> I like the little sound effects of TEVO, I know what you mean. >> I can't say I'm the only person, but I'm probably the only person that'll admit it. That I love my TEVO. But these are things that I've watched them, not just change their UX like we did with Infor five years ago, but now they've changed their business model, they've changed what they've become as a hub and as a digital solution. How they used media channels to drive their business, I think that's incredible and it's a similar journey we're going on. So, there's a lot to be inspired by. >> Why should the consumer guys have all the fun? >> Marc: Yeah exactly. >> So how do you keep your team, you're the chief creative officer, so how do you, you talked about what inspires you and what inspires the company as a whole but how do you, keep a culture of creativity and innovation going? How do you keep the momentum? >> We've been really fortunate to have a really great support system by the executive team, Charles Phillips, Duncan Angove, certainly have been incredible about needing a team like Hook and Loop. When I met David it was 15 people maybe a little more, and now it's a 120 that run that core team. We launched H and L Digital last year, we were like nine people and now we're over 40. That investment, those dollars they put back into these kind of endeavors are really indicative of that . And I think that it comes through to the creatives and the people that we bring in that this is the kind of investments that Infor is interested in. We have a beautiful working environment inside New York City inside our headquarters. We have a beautiful new garage we just opened up, an innovation lab, we get to play with the greatest toys. I think we're actually very, very fortunate, to be inside a company like Infor and get to work with the people, we get to work with as designers, and as creatives. And that was an up hill slope to keep people motivated to do that as creatives and we call them left brain creators. I think we're there now, we turn away a lot of people to come work for us now. So it's pretty exciting. >> New York, London, Dubai, right? >> That's exactly right thank you, yeah. We are, we opened London just recently, we're opening Dubai next and we have two teams in New York. It's pretty exciting. >> Rebecca: Great. >> Love to see the Dubai. >> Yeah, Dubai is being built up right now, we have an office there already. >> could be the next destination, >> Cube Dubai. >> We should do a cube Dubai, that'd be great, they would love it there. >> Alright. >> I love it. Well Marc-- >> Put that on the list. >> Marc, thanks so much for joining us it's always a pleasure having you on the show. >> Thank you >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante we will have more from Inforum after this.

>> Announcer: Live from the Javits Center in New York City, it's theCUBE. Covering Inforum 2017, brought to you by Infor. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Inforum 2017, I am your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We are joined by Chip Coyle. He is Infor's CMO. Thanks so much for sitting down with theCUBE today. >> Thank you for having me. >> So we just kicked off the show, the general session, Charles Philips, a lot of other Infor executives up there on the main stage talking. Lay it out for us. How many people are here. What are sort of the big themes that you're trying to get across here. >> Yeah, well, first of all it's great for Infor to be having our conference here at the Javits Center. It's about 10 blocks from our home-- >> Rebecca: Your own back yard. >> In New York City, and so this year, we've got nearly 7,000 attendees over the course of the week. Many component programs as we do every year with our partner summit, with our various conferences for the different individual customer constituencies, and executive forum, and of course, a big customer appreciation event happening tomorrow night. >> You've also made some big announcements. I'm talking mostly about Coleman AI, and Burst. I want you, if you can unpack those for our viewers a little bit. >> Yeah, I would say the theme of the conference this year is the age of networked intelligence. And what does that mean? Well, we've had, for the last several years, a layered strategy in our business, starting at the foundation with very deep industry functional applications. Purpose built for the different industries. We've taken all of that technology and moved it to the cloud, so that you get the benefits of the efficiencies and the network capability of taking your applications to the cloud. We recently, a year ago, acquired GT Nexus, which expands our capability, in a broader sense, to a commerce network, and we're able to incorporate that into our traditional applications in different industries. And then, just a couple of months ago, we acquired a business intelligence software company, Burst, which brings some really great technology for business intelligence that we can layer on top of all of our applications in this network environment. And then finally, today, the big announcement was Coleman, as you said, and that was to take our new artificial intelligence platform and really create just profound new ways that the workers in the different industries and their different companies across the networked enterprise, can interact in a business setting, much like people do in a commercial setting today. >> Can you, Chip, talk about the evolution of the brand promise. So when we first met Infor, at AWS Reinvent, it was like who was Infor? Trying to educate people on who Infor is. And so I felt like last year was your sort of stamp of this is how Infor and why Infor is relevant, and now, there seems to be sort of an undertone of innovation. So can you talk about the evolution of the brand and what you see as the brand promise. >> Well, we are very consistent in our branding and positioning of Infor as really the first industry cloud company. We're the ones who have been, at an accelerated pace, bringing the most deep, industry-rich, functional applications to the cloud. And that has created a great layer now, for all of these future innovations that we have talked about today with the benefits of business intelligence enabled applications built right in, so that you can truly have all the information you need at the right time, for the right purpose to make immediate business decisions. And then the potential and capability of artificial intelligence on top of that. >> As the chief marketing officer, can you talk a little bit about how these innovations change how you do your job, and how they make your life easier, in terms of making the right decision at the right time, making the decision better, having the right data? >> Yeah, well some of the other announcements that we're making this week, actually are in my particular line of business, which is marketing, and one of those, for example, is we're broadening our Infor CRM suite, with a link to LinkedIn's Sales Navigator. So that brings a whole set of important data to, about customers, to enable better customer interactions, for our customers. So that's something that we look to be using in our business, along with Marketo, which is a new business partner, as the engine, or the marketing automation platform to fuel our marketing business. So that's how it's impacting me directly in what I do. >> So I wonder if you could help us sort of debunk some of the myths. So Oracle would say enterprise apps aren't moving to the cloud, and we are the company to move them to the cloud, and we're the only company that can move them to the cloud. You know, SAP, it's got it sort of some cloud going on, but most of the stuff remains on prem. We heard today 55% of your revenue comes from cloud. And we know you made a decision years ago to run on AWS. Help us understand, I mean these are core, hard core enterprise apps that are running in the cloud. So help us debunk some of those myths and add some color to that. >> The traditional processes of rolling out major applications and enterprise applications in an enterprise is completely changing. And it's also changing because of the capabilities of the cloud. And the approach that Infor takes, which is very easy to assemble and configure with our Ion technology and collaboration technology, such as Mingle, to put these applications in place in a much faster way for our customers than some of the traditional players in the ERP market have been accustomed to do. And they just don't have the current technology approach or foundation to be able to move quickly to the cloud, as we do at Infor. >> In talking about Infor, you talked a little bit about the brand evolution, how are you getting the word out? Infor is really a sleeping giant in the technology industry. How are you getting your name out there? >> Well one thing that we want to do with our brand is show, well first of all, introduce Infor to the world at large, that hasn't heard of us. And the way that we want to do that is by showing what kind of benefits we can give to customers in different industries. So we just recently launched our first-ever TV commercials. They have run on shows like Meet the Press, and some of the CNBC and MSNBC shows. That has, incidental, all of that was developed entirely, 100% in house, with Hook and Loop, our creative in-house creative agency. So we're very proud of that. We're looking to do more of that with TV. We also have a relationship with the Brooklyn Nets here in New York, where on the business side, we're enabling them with performance and team analytics with a whole slew of applications of that with biometric readings and imagery, when they're moving around on the court. That can then be used to help fine tune and make decisions on which personnel to use, which, what are the best players to be able to, say, shoot a free throw after one day of rest versus two days of rest. That level of analytics. So we are, in that partnership with the Nets, are also in a branding way, going to be on the Nets jersey starting this September with an Infor patch on the jersey. And we're announcing that also, this week. >> Awesome. This is definitely a New York theme here. We're here at the Javits Center, Brooklyn Nets, Hudson Yards, another huge project that you guys are intimately involved in. Not a lot of vendors are explicitly mentioned in that. Maybe talk about that a little bit. >> Well, Hudson Yards as a development is unique in that it is really a completely self-contained city in all respects. Where the concept is to be able to network the data and information of anybody within that city, with respect to where they live in the high-rises, where they shop in the retail stores or grocery stores, where they eat in the restaurants, and where they work with all of the businesses that are locating there, too. So that gives you so much potential to rethink how information can enable, just the way that you move about, even in the city. From keyless entry into facilities, to voice-activated tasks, like, can you please restock in my groceries in my refrigerator in my condo. So there's so many ways that that can be a broad showcase for the true smart city of the future. >> These are high-end clientele. This is very New York. I want to shift gears and talk about the eco system a little bit. There's a few names that I, maybe they were here before, but I hadn't seen them, at least prominently, certainly IBM, you mentioned Marketo, a great interesting partner, hot company, and some of the SIs are sort of coming out of the woodwork. >> Chip: Yes. >> Now when you think about your strategy for sort of micro verticals, the SIs, I always say, they love to eat at the trough. And if there's not a lot of customizations, they're not interested. However, you've attracted them, because you've now got a substantial enough estate. So talk about that evolution of the eco system. >> We're proud to have as our diamond sponsors this year, AVAAP, as well as Marketo. And AVAAP has been a longstanding partner for, implementation partner for us, in expanding areas. Their heritage is with Lawson in health care and they're doing a lot of implementations across our business in all geographies, in all industries. But what's new this year is we also have attracted some new, some of the big SIs, such as Deloitte and Accenture, Capgemini, Grant Thornton. So they have all come in as sponsors and we're really on the cusp of some big and bigger and better things with them in the different businesses. >> The other thing I wanted to ask you about is Infor has a unique way of attracting interesting speakers. I've done probably five or six thousand interviews in the last five or six years, and some of the most interesting have been at Inforum. Deborah Norville came on in New Orleans, last year Lara Logan, Naomi Tutu, Karina Hollekim, amazing three women interviews. >> Rebecca: This year Susan Rice. >> This year Susan Rice was here, so what's that all about? They're not techies, they're just interesting people. What are you trying to do there? >> Well, we have a program, the Women's Infor Network, WIN, that was created by Pam Murphy, our chief operating officer, and starting a few Inforums ago, we wanted to use Inforum as a platform to showcase innovative women in the world. And it's a little bit of a departure from our product and technology messages. And this year, we've got, as you mentioned, some great inspiring women, like Jill Biden, the former first, vice president-- >> Rebecca: Second lady. >> And also, Susan Rice, as you mentioned. So, it's going to be, it's always a very popular session. >> Yes, and we're looking forward to having those women on theCUBE, too, tomorrow. >> Chip: Absolutely. >> Chip, thanks so much for joining us, it's been a pleasure. >> Thank you for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante. We'll have more from Inforum 2017 after this. (techno music)

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Q covering in dramatic. A World 2017 brought to you by Inform Attica. Welcome >>back, everyone. We live here in San Francisco at the Mosconi West with In From Attica. World 2017. This is Cubes Exclusive coverage. I'm John Furry with the Cube and Peter Barris with vicky bond dot com General manager we have on research. Our next guest is Tracy Ring, specialist leader at Deloitte Consulting in the trenches. Put it all together. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us today. Appreciate it. >>Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. >>So your specialist, But in the system global system, integrated world, that means you basically globally look at the solutions. And And what's interesting is why I'm excited. Conversation with you is that, you know, point solutions can come and go. But now we're in this compose herbal world of cloud data, etcetera, where ah, holistic view has to be looked at. So what? I want to get your thoughts on in from Attica and what you guys are doing because we've heard it's the heartbeat. But yet there's also a hygiene issue. So you got this heart surgeon and the hygienist, and you have all kinds of specialty rolls of and data. It's pretty broad, but yet supercritical. How do you look at the holistic big picture? >>Absolutely. I mean, we're seeing the view of ecosystems being so much more important. Were so Maney technology disruptors. I mean, three years ago, we weren't even hearing about Kafka, and Duke was really new, and and so I think demystifying, simplifying, helping customers understand the art of the possible what can be done? What are leading practice organizations doing and then really making it real? How do you so this complex story together, how do you best leverage and get your investment out of technologies like in from Attica in their complimentary tools >>is interesting. IBM has Watson in from Attica. Has Claire ASAP has Leonardo s A P has Einstein. >>It would be >>great to get them all together >>and have dinner, right? So I mean, but this speaks >>well, You got Alexa and Amazon and Google. I mean, this is an interface issues you're talking about. Ah, cognitive. A real time new user interface and machine interface into data that is completely out of the possible. It's what's happening in the world is changing. Developers is changing. Practitioners, architects. Everyone's impacted your reaction to all this. >>You know, I think it's probably the most exciting time that we've seen in so long, and I think you so well articulated all of the players that air there. I think when you add in I, O. T. And Device Management, you know it's really an exciting time. And I think it's really driving some amazing things with regard to how organizations are literally transforming themselves. And in both our clients as well as the ecosystem of technologies, companies air are literally shifting their entire business model. It's it's very exciting. >>So one of the things that the typified system integrator types behavior like to elect a lawyer big consulting firm was big application. Let's deploy the big application for accounting for finance for HR whatever. Also culminating in New York, which was the Grand pa of everything. Right now we're talking about analytics where we have to focus on the outcome's not just a big package for a function, but really a complex, ideally strategic differentiating outcome. Yeah, typically using a whole bunch of smaller tools that have to be bought together similar. What John was talking about as a specialist who looks at these tools take us through kind of a new thought process, outcome, capability to tool in the entire journey to get there. >>Absolutely. I think one of the things that delight does that is really, really unique is having conversations that start with art of the possible, what could be done? What are leading practice organizations doing Help me set a strategy? Yeah, and I think the real answer is there's less about sort of benchmarking what everyone else is doing and more about >>really, You got it, You got >>it. It's really about revolutionizing, you know, and and going into a new angle of what is truly, truly possible. And I think, ah, lot of the things that were sort of table stakes and in the way that we would look at success totally turned on its head. And we're looking at organizations monetizing their data and, you know, creating new business ventures because of the insights that they're deriving and a lot of times will use. Delight has an insight studio and a greenhouse, and a couple of really highly collaborative spaces that we take clients to. Ah, well, you know, plan 123 day workshops, depending on how difficult of problem they're trying to solve and help them charter road map. And take that road map, which is in many cases, business oriented business results driven and help them so in and layer in the technologies that are gonna make that reality possible. What's >>the opportunities for cognitive? I mean, you guys talk a lot of Deloitte about a Friday different things, but specifically there's some key opportunity around. Call the cognitive or you guys call the cognitive. IBM also used that word cognition, but really a I artificial augmented intelligence are signs of a new kind of opportunity landscape. Whether you see for customer opportunities out there, >>absolutely, we talk a lot about what we consider the inside driven advantage. And that's really about using all of the tools in the toolkit to make that insight driven, data driven, better decisions around what organizations conduce. Oh, and kind of. It is a huge component of that, you know, it's we've been hearing stories for years about companies sort of predicting the next best offer and you know, we're seeing this move so much further, removing into robotics process automation. You know, the space is getting, I think, even more complex. But I think what's interesting is when we talk to organizations about, you know, they're not hiring tons of people to go out and do data integration through wonderful organizations. Confirm Attica. That's really been solved. So companies were able to both take their technical resource is and shift them into solving Maur difficult problems, hairier technology opportunities and use that to help shape their business. >>That's like compose abilities. So in dramatic, a world's got a set of solutions and technologies. Some sass ified someone fram. But here it is. But you're deluded you. That's just one element to your mix of things composed for clients. You mention those three years opportunities. Digital transformation is kind of the categorical wave >>Iran, but the end of >>the day it's business transformation. You mentioned changing the business model. >>How do >>customers take advantage of those business opportunities in whether it's robotics or industrial i ot or insights and analytics? What What is the customer impact and how did they get those business benefits? >>Yeah, I mean, I think again like I said, a lot of times it starts with, you know, what is their goal? What do they want to be known for in the marketplace and that value branding of Of what is it that they see themselves differentiating amongst their competitors and using a pretty solid process and rigorous approach to that strategy? Tea set? You know, what are the pillars to achieve? That is, I think, a big piece of it. I think the other component is we see a lot of organizations sort of challenging themselves to do more. And we'll have organizations say I believe that I can doom or what? What could I do? And I think that's interesting that >>we'll just fall upon that because Pete and I were talking earlier before we came on about what gets customers excited when the iPad came out. That was the first kind of visual of >>I gotta have my analytics on the dashboard. Let's start. I >>call the dashboard wave now with bots and aye aye. You're seeing another reaction. >>Yeah, I gotta have that. Automated. Do you see it the same way? And how does that >>translate to the custom when they see these this eye candy and the visualization stuff. How does that impact your world and the impact of the customer? Your customer? >>Absolutely. I mean, we used to live in a world where if I needed to have my data extracted, I would, you know, submit a request. And it was this very long, lengthy process. And, you know, when you think about the robotic single and and process automation, you know, automated data pools are are there. And I think the interesting part is is that it's not about just cost out of i t. It's not about, you know, getting off of on premise hardware. It's about driving better customer satisfaction, driving better business outcomes. You know, the implications. I think whether you're in life sciences or you're in retail, you can touch your customer in a way that is. You know what I would say? Sort of delighting them versus just giving them what they asked for. >>So I wanna I wanna test of theory on you and see how live and see how this seals lines up with thinking and where you see your customers going. So we have this notion that wicked bond, our research of what we call systems of agency. And by that we mean effectively that historically we did we create systems that recorded action big t p e r p. More recently, as you said, we're now creating systems that suggest action predictive analytics, those types of things. And now we're moving in the world were actually going to have systems that take action. Yeah, where authority and data have to move together so that the system is acting as an agent on behalf of the brand now in from Attica has done some really interesting things here with some of their new tooling, some of the metadata tooling to ensure that that type of meeting can move with the data. So if you think about where Deloitte and customers are going, are they starting to move into this new realm where we're building systems, take action on behalf of the brand and what does that mean for the types of tooling? But we're gonna have to find for customers so they can make it, you >>know? I mean, this morning we were delighted to hear the latest announcement around how metadata is really such a core component, and and I think of it is metadata is in many cases where most organizations do see the monetization of their data payoff. Right? We're not only do I have highest golden record like we talked about 10 years ago, I have data lineage. I have data traceability. I have the whole entire story. So it's really much more cost justified. Uh, you know, hearing the announcement today of Claire, and you know how we now have the Aye Aye of our clairvoyance is really exciting. And, you know, I I don't know that we're completely there. And I think we'll continue to innovate as in from Attica. Always does. But we certainly are a whole lot closer. And I would say, you know, your concept is you know, certainly we're all going to the park for >>good. My final question. Let's get your thoughts on because you have a global perspective. You work with the ecosystem partners. You heard all the stories. You've heard all the raps and all the Kool Aid injectors from the different suppliers. But there's two things going on that that's interesting. One is we're kind of going back to the end to end solution. Absolutely. I'm seeing five g with Intel Smart cities I ot So everyone wants to get back to that end to an accountability with data and packets moving. All that could step with applications over the top. But yet there's not one single vendor owning it, so it's kind of a multi vendor world, yet it's gotta be in tow end and bulletproof secure. I mean, >>that's your world. It's not derailed. I mean, you got to be busy, your reaction to that. And what's that? What's that >>mean to the industry? And how should customers? I'd look at that Say okay, Want to get some stability? I want great SL ways, but I want a flexibility for compose ability I want and empower my app developers Dr Top Line Revenue. This is the Holy Grail. We're kind of in the wheelhouse right now. >>Yeah, 100%. I think it's a very exciting time and the like, I said, the fabric of what organizations need to sew together two really achieve their analytic insights and, uh, you know, leveraging their data. I think data is just becoming more and more important, and it's a phenomenal place toe to be in both for where I sit on the consulting side helping all of our customers and certainly where globally we're seeing our client's going >>and your and your message to the client is what we got your back on. This >>has to look, that's what you guys do. You sew it together. It's got to be more than that. It's got ideas for you could see. I think it's a >>lot. I think it's that it's not just about bolting in a technology or 10 technologies. It's about solving the most difficulty technology problems with, you know, with data helping. >>You gotta be savvy to, as they say in the swim lanes of the different firms and got to bring your expertise to the table with some of your own tech. >>Absolutely. And and I think for us we never sort of a ra missed that there is a huge business, and if you if you don't take the business aspect of it, what business problem are we solving? What value are regenerating? How are we ultimately impacting our customers customers, you know? Then you know you're sort of missing the what we consider the most important piece of the pie. >>Tracey Ring with the Lloyd. Great to have you on. Thanks for your insight. Very insightful. That all the data's right there. We're gonna make sense of it here in the Cube. Thanks for sharing, Dee Lloyd. Really put it all together. Composing the future Cloud Data Mobile. It's all here. Social is the que bringing all the live action from San Francisco. I'm John for Peter Burst more after this short break.

>>live from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Informatica World 2016. Brought to you by Informatica. Now here are your hosts John Furrier and Peter Burress. Okay. Welcome back, everyone. We are here live in San Francisco for Informatica World 2016. Exclusive coverage from Silicon Angle Media is the Cube. This is our flagship programme. We go out to the events and extract the signal to noise. I'm John from my co host, Peter Burst. We have tree conflict comedy Global Head of Data Management and Steve Jones, global vice president. Big data from Capt. Jeff and I insights and data. You. Good to see you again. You sure you're welcome back. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. And you've got my name right? It was a tongue twister, but, uh, we were talking about big data before we started rolling and kind of like where we've come to talk about over the really big data. You look back only a few years ago. Go back five years, Duke movement to where it is now. The modernisation is certainly loud and clear, but it's just not about Hadoop anymore. There's a lot of operational challenges and also the total cost of owners who want to get your thoughts. What's the trends? What do you guys see as the big trends now relative to this modernisation of taking open source the next big day to the next level? >>I think part of the pieces were actually about to publish a report we've done within the massacre on exactly that question, Uh, particular and governance and how people are making it operational. We did a report recently with our captain consulting division around Operation Analytics. Really fascinating thing that found out was the two real interesting in governance, right? The age old thing on governance has been the business doesn't engage. Well, guess what we found when you look at big data programmes is when the big data programmes start to deliver value. Guess who wants to take them over business? Guess who then actually starts leading the governance efforts, the business. So suddenly, this piece where the history of sort of data management has been, you know, going you really care about quality and the business, to be honest, going? Yeah, we don't care that much. We're still using excel, um, to the stage of which you're delivering real analytical value those pieces are going through. It's something we've been on a long journey for. I mean, we talked the other day. 2011 was the first time at camp we published a white paper on on our learnings around Big Data and governance. Um, it's amazing. Five years ago, we were talking about actually how you do governance and big data because of some of our more, uh, sort of forward looking clients. But that shift and what we're finding in that the report is the fact that people are really looking to replace this substrate. It's absolutely not about just about Hadoop, but that's the foundation, right? And unlike sort of historical pieces where there hasn't really been a data foundation, there's been lots of data silos but not a data foundation. Companies are looking to move towards actual firm data foundations across their entire business. That's a huge leap for it organisations to make and in terms of its impact on, you know, MDM and data quality and pace of delivery. Um, and those are the pieces. >>So also talk about the trends outside the US, for instance, because now you have in the UK uh, talk about that because your clients have a global footprint. The governance then crosses over the boundaries, blurring if you will virtual. But you still have physical, uh, locations. Well, I am sort of the UK and based out of London, And, uh so I see that side of the pond more often than, uh, this side. But the trends are pretty similar. And what Steve said, in fact, we were joking about it yesterday and we said, It's not for the tweet, but maybe, you know, was a little bit more big data doesn't need data quality. And my other favorite statement is MDM is dead. Long live India. Both of them are relevant. Big data doesn't need data quality in the sense that you cleanse all your data and put it into a TD WR uh, or a data lake because you can't only part of it is data owned by you. The rest comes from external sources where it needs quality is building the context on top when the end user of the analysts have a view, and there, if you build the context, then even good data could turn too bad, because in a particular context. That data is no more relevant. But bad data can turn to good because you're bringing in the context. And there was this eggs example we were talking about. You know, you you run a marketing campaign and you have all these likes and tweets and everybody loved it. Somebody then said, Okay, how about how good is this campaign? That's great. We need more. How good is it in the context of sales? Guess what? When the campaign ran, there was no difference to your sales. So then this good data that you had on the marketing campaign has turned back just to the company. That was a wasted effort that marketing. So you need contextual quality, not pure data quality. You know, if you look at e t l. You transform you do data quality before you, Lord. Now you're talking of E l t. And that's where you need quality. You need the linkages, the references, this data changes the data, and real time has been the conversation earlier so far today, the context defines the quality quality. A data swamp could be a data, you know, clean and environment. I mean, one >>of the reasons why we should presented that we present my presentation That I did on Monday was on avoiding a data swamp. So we actually think. But what we say is you've already got it. The myth is that you don't have data swamp right today, which is Oh, we've got my perfect data warehouse and it's got a perfect schemer. Really? And what does your business use Excel spreadsheets? Where do they get the data from? Well, they get from S a p. They download this and we got a macro. Somebody wrote in 1998 which means we can't upgrade that despot desktop from office 97. Right? So that desktop is office 97 because it's the only one that has a supply chain spreadsheet on. So the reality is you have the spread. Have it today. I think to the point you said about the country difference. One of the things we've seen, I think from a sort of a culture difference between Europe and here in the U. S. Is the U. S. Has been very much the technology pioneer, right is well, you know, the Hadoop stuff. The sparks of all that technology push European companies are seeing a lot of have taken quite a while to get into the, uh the Hadoop marketplace, but particularly the larger manufacturers, Um and sort of I'd say the more robust, like pharmaceuticals and these large scale organisations are now going all in. But after thinking about it. So what I mean is is that we've seen sort of lots of POC is used to be, like, four or five years ago. People doing PhDs here in North America. They're very technically centric. And then people like Okay, >>Exactly. Whereas >>over in now, in Europe, we're seeing more people going. Okay, We know where we want to get, too, because we've seen all the technology. Now it works. We're gonna start with thinking about the governance and thinking about that. What's the right way to go about this? So I think from a timing perspective, the thing that was interesting we felt beginning of last year that we begin to see some earlier states. Larger programmes in Europe, Maybe towards the end of the reality was by the middle of the year we were seeing very, very large pieces. There was almost a switch that happened, but we've our return, this notion of governance because it's really important. And you've said it here today about 20 times the rules of data Governments have been written piecemeal over the past few decades. Uh, started off by saying, uh is which application owns what data? And is the data quality enough so that the application runs or not? Uh, then compliance kind of kicked in, and we utilised compliance related rules to write the new rules of data governance. What is data governance in the context of big data? And the reason I ask questions specifically and maybe put some bounds on it is we're trying to get to a point where the business puts a value on data trade data as an asset that has a value. And the only way we're gonna be able to do that is through governance rules to support it. So what does data governance mean in a big data context, I >>think, Yeah. So the value is really the impact, and I go back to a very simple analogy people, When you didn't have computers, you had your ledges. You locked it up in a safe and took the key home. So you protected who had access to your data? You then put it on PCs. But then you give them access with Loggins. Then you said, Well, I'll tell you what you can do with my data. That was the era of B I. Because you had reports all they could do was print a report. Now you've given them access to do whatever they want with data. Now, how do you know? First thing on the governance aspect is what are they doing with the data? Where did they get the data for which they used to come up with that? What is the exposure to your organisation if somebody has, you know, uh, traded around, they traded around with labour rates or, uh, you know, fix them or done something you're talking about. And then you work backwards, Arlene. Age. So now I need to know first thing what? Not just who accesses my data. And I need to know. What are they doing that I need to know where they got the data with it. >>Well, I think this is >>You don't know what they're when they're going to access it and what they're going to do with at any given time. But I >>think that's the thing is where we have the This is where the sort of contention comes in. Right. To be honest between the areas back to the value is from a data management data governance that those things are all true, right? We need to know those pieces. The other reality is that today how do you show the business, Actually that they value the pieces, which is ultimately the outcome. So the piece we're finding on the research and the research we're about to publish soon with Informatica is one of things it's really finding. Is that where when do you get the business to care about governance? And the answer is when you demonstrate an outcome which relies on having good governance. So if you do a set of analytics and you prove that this is going to improve the effectiveness, the bottom line, the top line or whatever, the firm and particularly Operational analytics customer analytics, where they're real measurable numbers, we can save you 6% on your global supply chain costs. But in order to do that, you need a single view of product and parts, which means you need to do a product. MDM Well, that's a very easy way to get the business engaging government, as opposed to we need to do product MDM What? >>We're going to 3 60 view of the customer. >>So you So we're still pricing the value of data based on the outcome? Absolutely. And then presumably at some point, there is some across all those different utilisation and that will become the true value of the data. Is that I think the piece, I'd say in terms of that, if we sum it up, it's sort of it becomes a challenge because ultimately the business pays. Right? So one of the things I like about the big data stuff and the programmes are doing these large scale companies is the ability to deliver value to an area. So what we call insight at the point of action, and that's the bit where I pay. So, yes, I could sum it up in Theoretically and the C I can say, Well, I'm delivering this much value, but it's at those points of action. And if you say to something right, I deliver you $2 million. It costs you $100,000. That's much better than we have to say in totality. This delivers you, you know, $2 billion and it costs you $20 million or $200 million. That's an abstract piece, whereas except when I'm thinking about investment BAC, because I need to be able to appropriate the right set of resources, financial and otherwise, to the data based not just on individual exploitations but across an entire range of applications. Tyre range of utilisation, right? I think I think so. But again, in terms of the ability to bill and charges that if I can, my total is the summation of the individuals. So that's why I worked with the CFO once you have the CIA was in the room, said the business case for their for one of their programmes, and CFO said, Well, if I had, it took all your business cases and adding together this company twice the size and cost nothing to run. So there's been a history of theoretical use cases. So what we're seeing, I think on the data and the outcome side is the fact that particular Operation Analytics they're absolutely quantifiable outcomes. So while then you can say? Well, yes, If you then add this up. We need to make an investment on based platform. The two things we're finding are because you can use these much more agile technologies. These projects don't take 12 months to deliver first value, so you can. And because the incremental cost of working in a lake environment is so much less, you know, I don't have a 12 month schema change problem. So that's one of the things we're seeing is the ability to say yes as a strategy. We're going to spend 20 million or whatever over the next five years on this. But every three months, I'm going to prove to you that I've delivered value back because one thing I've seen on data governance, sort of strategic programmes historically is 18 months in. What have you delivered? What have you done for me? Proves that it has value right that >>you've forgotten. And I think also what we're seeing with big data initiatives is the failed fast methodology like the drug trials and farmers. So what's your project? It's actually the sum of all the all the programmes you've run. And we were talking about apportioning uh the budget, whose budget? Because it's now being done by the individual businesses in their own areas. So there's no CF or sitting there and saying, Well, this is the budget I give I t. And this is how you apportion it. It's all at the point of the business and they find we'll do all these fail fast programmes and I've then hit one, which makes me big bucks. And I love this concept because essentially talking about the horizontal disruption, which is what cloud and data does just fantastic. And I'm sure this is driving a lot of client engagements for you guys. So I got to ask a question on that thread Jerry Held talked about earlier today. I want to ask the question. He made a comment, but alternative questions. You guys, he said. Most CFOs know where their assets are. When you ask him to go down, the legend they go, Oh, yeah, they asked. What's about data? Where the data assets. The question is, when you go talk to your clients, uh, what do they look at when they say data assets? Because you're bringing up in the notion of not inventory of data I'm sitting around whether it's dirty, clean, you can argue and things will happen. But when it gets put to use for a purpose, Peter says, data with a purpose that's this would keep on narrative. What is there a chief data officer like a CFO role that actually knows what's going on? And probably no. But how do you have the clients? They're just share some colour because this is now a new concept of who's tracking the asset value. >>And I think there's two bits and I'll start without it. And then if you talk specifically post an L, which I think is a great example of what happens with data when it becomes an asset, is the ability to understand the totality of data within any nontrivial organisation is basically zero because it's not just inside your firewalls. I'd also question the idea that CFOs know where all the assets are. I'm working with a very large manufacturer, and after they've sold it, they need to service it, and they can't tell you where every asset is because that information now lives within a client. So actually knowing where all of the assets they need to service are, they might know their physical plants and factories are. But some of these assets a pretty big things they don't know necessarily where they are on planet Earth. So the piece on data is really to the stage of because it's also external data, right? So really the piece for me about government and other ones Do I understand the relationships of these pieces in terms of the do I value data as an individual pieces because of what I can do with it? Sometimes the data itself is the value, But most of the time we're finding in terms of when people describe value, it's to the outcome that it's based upon. And that's something that's much easier to define than how much is my, uh, product master worth. Well, I can't really say that, but you know what? I can absolutely say that 6% reduction in my supply chain costs because I have a product master. But I think post and l is a great example of what happens when you go the next step on data >>because you're looking at addressed it. And actually, it's not just posting now. We were talking to another uh, male company. A postal company. Where? Data asset. Okay, my address is our data assets, but I have multiple addresses for one person, and what they wanted to offer was based on the value of the packages that you get delivered. They wanted to give you a priority or a qualification of the addresses. They said this is a more trustworthy address because anything about £50 this person gets it delivered there. This is a lot of mail. So do you consider the insurance or the value of the packages that you get delivered to be a data asset? Most people wouldn't. They would say, Yeah, the addresses a asset. That's the data asset. But there's a second part to it, which you don't even know. So the answer really is yes and no. And it all is contextual because in a particular context, you can see if I know where everybody lives. I know where everybody is and I have all the address. You almost got to look back after the outcome and kind of reverse track the data and say, OK, that stream. I >>would say that people who start with we've had 30 years of trying to say it's the data object that has the value, and it's never ever happened. As soon as we're starting talking about the outcome and then backtracking and going in order to this outcome, we needed addresses which historically issues that would have been the value. But actually it was It was that plus the analytics of prioritising them for risk that suddenly that's a lot more valuable. That outcome of you know, what this person tends to be here, this area people seem to see as lower risk. This is where I can therefore look at the work office for those people. It gives you more information about the >>notion of the data swamp turning into data quality because the context, Sri says, is really key. Because now, if you can move data to context in real time data in motion where people call these days the buzzword. But that's the value. When you when you when you stumble upon that, that's where you say, Well, I thought I had bad data. No, Actually, it's hanging around waiting to be used as potential energy. As you know, it's the same thing with questionable. They're moving from being a postal supplier to delivering packages. Now, you know they have a very short window to deliver packages. So just how do you get to a building? Do you have to go through the backyard? Do you have to call somebody to get it? Now that data becomes valuable because otherwise you know all their deliveries go off the radar screen, right? Because they just shot to schedule >>was going to say about the quality. Want a great example of qualities that we spend a lot of times say process data and manufacturing will clean it up before it goes in the reporting structure, which is great, and that gives you a really great operational reports. There's now an entire business of people doing the digital discovery of processes so they can use the bad data to discover what your processes are and where your operational processes are currently breaking down process. If I cleaned up the data, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs. And it's this fascinating stuff we're finding a lot with. The data science piece is its ability to get different value out of data, >>chemical reactions, alchemy. It's all the interactions of the data. This is interesting. And I want to ask you guys, I know we have a minute left, and I want to have you guys take a minute to explain to the audience Cap Gemini and how people how you engage with the customer, uh, and context to their progress. Where are your customers? On the progress bar of these kinds of Congress? Because we have a nice conversation. I'd love to do an hour for this. Go up. We can geek out. But reality is day to run a business, right? So and in the tier one system integrators like captain and I all have kind of different differentiation. What do you guys do differently with this area of your practise? How are you engaging with your customers? And where are they on the progress bar of Are they like while you're talking gibberish to me, are they on board? Where are they? >>I think I think we've got a bit of a man. We've been on this journey a lot longer than most. Like I say, 2011. We're talking actual data governance and big data. You don't talk about that if you haven't been doing it for a while. we were the first systems integrated and as we Cloudera pivotal with massive partner with homework. So most of what's interesting is when people talk about data lakes and some people are thinking that stuff new. We're talking about the problem of most of our clients are now looking at the problem of having We will have multiple data lakes for P. I reasons for operational efficiency reasons from budget reasons. Whatever it may be we're looking at, how do you collaborate beyond the firewall? So I'd say, Obviously, we've got a continuity of customers. But a lot of our customers are going beyond the stage at which they're worrying about big data within their four walls to the stage of how do I collaborate beyond my four walls? And this, for us, is the switch on governance and data, and what we do is is the difference between sort of capture announcement other ones is. So when's recess is the global MGM guy and Gold Data Management guy? He actually his team is in all of the countries, so he has P and l responsibility for that. When I have it for big data in the >>country, you're out implementing the value extraction >>were in multi. I mean, it's really at the stage of kicking tyres. We're at the stage >>behind the kicking tyres a long way back in 2000, 11 >>1,002,011. By now, sort >>of driving the Ferrari on the autobahn. You know, 90 miles an hour straight, narrow. It's a lot more work to do, right. There's always a lot more things keep changing and that's that's the best part >>of what we do next. And that's the point for us is the reason we're in this is that it's what's next and I think that people, the reason governments are changing fundamentally is this move towards global collaboration. So the more you look at health exchanges and all of these things, the more people collaborate outside the four walls. That for us, is the problem we want to solve next, which is why we're working on industrialising what we now consider the boring stuff which is building a data lake and doing the internals and ingestion in those pieces that were not interested in putting bodies on that. It's about how you solve the next problem. >>Stephen Pre, thank you so much for joining the Cuba because you're good to see you again. And welcome to the Cuban love nightclub. You made it, um, great to have you love to do it. Do this again and again. I love the context. I love that you guys are on this, you know, data quality at the right time. Really? Right message? Certainly we think certainly relevant. So thanks for sharing your insights on here. And And the data on the Cube live streaming from San Francisco. You're watching the Cuba right back. It's always fun to come back to the cube because