(vibrant music) >> Everyone, welcome to our Palo Alto studio. I'm John Furrier host of theCUBE. We're here for a digital conversation. Part of our new digital events, part of our new structure of bringing people into the studio and also doing remotes. We'd love to do that in the era of the travel bans, but it's always great to have local Silicon Valley executives and startups here. Milin Desai, CEO of Sentry IO is here with me. Former VM-ware industry executive, CEO of Sentry IO hot startup. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank you for having me. >> So you can drive in. You don't have to fly anywhere. It's all good. No wearing masks. The coronavirus is crazy. I'm so glad we have you at this studio and get this content acquisition. Thanks for coming in. I want to get your take on your company before we get into the industry thing. I think you look at some of the most successful categories that just came out of nowhere. You know, you look at AIOps for instance in driving, you know, observability. But what is observability? That beginning, that comes with public page or do the list just goes on and on. The cloud has created this agile market where real time and then a lot of automation is going on so whether it's error logs like a Splunk does and that's scaled up. You get to doing something variation with software code that's not just something breaks, a phone rings. There's a lot a going on. You're this really kind of the tailwind here for you with cloud scale. What does Sentry doing? What's their secret sauce? >> So, the simplest way I would put it is we help you measure and monitor your code in production in close to real time. So what does that mean? You look at all, all of the companies that we talk about, whether it's a John Deere on one end or a Spotify on the other. They're all getting more digital in nature, which means they all trying to interact with their customers more often, building apps with an interface with an API. And as we all know, through our own personal experiences, if you don't get a great experience, you simply move on. So, you pull up your app, you pull up Uber, it's not working, let me look at Lyft. Right? That's the kind of consumer behavior that's starting to take in. >> So-- >> Meaning you don't really know as the owner of the app if they're abandoning or not, it's just down sales or? >> Correct. And so, what we do is we help developers monitor how the usages of their code in production. So, as users hit editors, a checkout button is not working or a user is having a bad experience on a mobile phone, whereas the same application on a browser looks fine. We in real time giving notification saying X number of users on this type of device, on this type of interface are having issues. And not just that, it's an alert, it's an alert that says this is the issue, this is the line of code where the issue's taking place, this is the potential commit that you did in your getRepository, which is causing it. So, it's the full kind of metadata around the issue. Which typically would be, what, two days? I take it as filed. Support me, look at it. Hey, customer has an issue, let's reproduce it. Well the customer is gone. So this is all done in real-- >> Or it could be a complete blindspot too. You don't know, right? This is the thing. This is why I love this whole digital transformation role where instrumentation is re-imagining how everything's being done. So for instance, you could see a code push and you go, okay, it's in production. And then why are sales down? Why is usage down? And then you've got to do a postmortem. >> Correct. >> No one called, just going what the hell happened? Fingers are blaming. He did it! Here you're trying to get to the point where you can see that error earlier or before or after, during as it work. >> It's almost in real time. Close to real time. As the user has the error immediately through either PagerDuty, Slack, email, whichever your communication medium is. You get to know a user or a set of users are having an issue. You click it, you go to this portal. All the metadata is right there. So, it's in real time. And so to exactly your point, it's not after the fact. >> Yeah. >> Right, it's happening. And so, the CTO of tackled.io, said it best, it's a startup that helps companies get on to marketplaces. He said, "Hey, we found issues before our customers even filed a issue against us." So, you know, this helps us deliver true customer experience, as a development team. >> So, on the developers that target profile get that and they're coding away. They don't have time to do research. They'll be like, "Oh, I better bolt on some instrumentation here." That's been the successful move. Look at like what Datadog has done in DevOps. Just the easy onboarding, free use it. Is that the same model you guys are taking this free land, adopt then expand. So, is it a freemium, could you explain the business model? >> Yeah, so, a Sentry is a open source. And so customers can take the piece of software that we have as is, fully functional and run it themselves on their data center on their cloud, or they can choose a SaaS version from us and we offer kind of like a free version and then you pay for the plan. So, what we typically see is customers turn it on, developers turn it on and they like it. And then, the best score I got recently was, one CEO who said, "Hey, you know, I don't send you that many events, but I see the value of what you do, so I decided to pay you." Right, so, they went from free to paid. And that's kind of typical pattern that we see. And the best thing about this is, it takes you approximately four lines of code to get started. Four lines of code in your code and you get started getting the benefits of Sentry. >> What's good sign for monetization when you got the paying it forward literally with cash. I want to ask you the difference between the open source version because I saw in the origination story it's really interesting. They were at jobs and they saw this side project grow into a real opportunity. And it's always good to see the open source not die, right. So, this been maintain the project. When would someone use the open sources? Is that the hardcore folks or, so SaaS, obviously makes sense. It's easier if you're doing a lot of the extra support and whatnot on top of it. But what's the use case for the folks who are going to bring it in house loaded on their cloud? >> I think we'll leave it to our customers to decide that. And we've seen, folks who say, "Hey, you know, we have, we're going to try it out, it's a small, we have got a good DevOps practice. We're going to get it up and running." Here's what happened with one of my teams at VMware. The engineer in charge looked at it and said, "It's not worth my time given what the price on SaaS is." Right, so, like our smallest plan is $29, which satisfies most startups or small software projects. And his point was like, "Hey, you know, it's almost better for me to start and using that versus--" >> Well they weren't using NSX. I'm sure Pat Gels would be like, "Get shipped the next product." Well this is the trade off, right? I mean, so that's what's beautiful of open source. You want to bring it in and make it work for yourself. That trade off has to be economically there. >> Correct. >> So you have a nice balance of if you're hardcore, no problem. >> Please use-- >> Use it, contribute, be part of the team. But if you want ease of use and all the bells and whistles and the speed. >> I think it comes down to what we are starting to see, which is, how much do you care about getting to value faster and where is your value? Is it in kind of running and operating all these pieces of software or is it in, you know, getting value to your end customer? So, if you are focused on building your business, we are this value add that kind of gets you there faster. So, stop focusing on kind of building the infrastructure. Start delivering kind of the value to the business. >> So I'm going to ask you, so, are you the CEO? So the founders who I've not met. I look forward to interviewing them. They seem pretty cool. I'm sure they probably say, "Oh this guy from VMware, he's probably the big company guy." 'Cause they were like, we're going to Dropbox now. Engineers, I could almost imagine their, what they're like. Probably skeptical, this is VMware guy. How did you get through the interview process? Obviously, you're the CEO, you made it. Were they skeptical ? What worked? Why you, why'd you go there? >> You know, the best thing about this transition is Chris and David. So, David was the CEO. He is now the CTO. He's the founder creator along with Chris. And it was his decision, to bring someone into the company, given that we are seeing this, you know, we are now at 20000 plus customers and he felt like he wanted to kind of go back to building and creating and bring a partner in crime. So, that was the good part. I would say like, we started talking and we are at the same energy level, you know? So, I think it just worked out in the way we communicated. And you've known me for a bit. I'm kind of hands on. I like, you know, to kind of get into things and build businesses. So, I think the profile matched out and both of us took our time. So it was, a long dating process, where we got to know each other. Not just as, you know, what we do for work. But, you know, how we operate and had coffee and lunch and dinner and--- >> Well, it is a dating, dating and marriage is always thinking, but the founders are, it's a tough move to make. I mean, for founders to be self-aware, to bring in someone else. But also the fit has to be there. And a lot of entrepreneurs just check the box and try to hire someone too fast that could fail or gets jammed down by the VCs, you know. So, the founders are pretty kind of reluctant. So, that's interesting that you did that. >> Yeah, he's been thinking. You know, the thing about David is he's super thoughtful and hopefully you'll get to see him soon. He's been thinking about this for a bit. And he took his time. And he worked through the process and that's why I said it felt like we were not just talking about, me joining as a CEO, as much as us getting to know each other and building this for the long run. And so we really took our time on both ends--- >> And he want to to get back on the engine of the business? He's a developer, right? He's like the code. >> Just don't want to, >> It was-- >> 20000 customers, you going to get hiring people. It's HR issues. This probably, I don't want to do that. >> That and you know it was kind of the personality thing, right? Grit and grind, you know. We kind of, can somebody come in and have the passion, the same that he believes in what we do. And he saw that and I saw that in him and I'm like, this is a great opportunity that I cannot forego. >> So talk about the, I say love modern, the modern startups because, you know, you're on the right side of history when you got cloud at your tailwind and kind of DevOps, like vibe you get going on with, I know it's not DevOps, but it's common like cloud scale and the agility. How are you guys organized? You guys have virtual teams. You have a central office. Is there a physical place? Do people come in? What's the, how is the company's philosophy on work environment? >> So, we actually have three locations. One in San Francisco, which is the headquarters, where we are located. And then in Vienna, Austria, where one of the early engineers and pioneers live. And so we built around that person and that location. >> No one's complaining about that. >> No. >> Vienna's not a bad place there-- >> Not a bad place. I haven't visited yet. (laughs) I am looking forward to it. I was supposed to be there in April, but, given the circumstances, I'm postponing it. And we recently started this past year in Toronto. And so, we are--- >> So three strong areas for tech talent for sure. >> And then we do have some employees working from home. So, we try and hire the best, and then we accommodate. But we do try to kind of cluster around these three locations. >> So, I got to get your take as the CEO, obviously we're all grappling with this, work at home, Covid 19, the coronavirus, is impacting. Everything's being canceled here in Silicon Valley. I would say Seattle has more of a hotspot than our area. Mostly China as China. What's the view that you guys are taking right now? You're telling people who work at home. Obviously, events are being canceled. Places where people doing Biz Dev, KubeCon was canceled, Dell Technology World is can-- I mean everything's being canceled. How's that affecting your business and what's your philosophy? How are you guys are executing through this tough time? >> I think as a company we've kind of taken the step for having people work from home and we did it on a location by location basis. So, for folks in San Francisco, especially because folks who are commuting on public transportation and other things. We wanted to make our team feel comfortable. And so we've instituted a work from home policy, for, I think we said two weeks, but I think it's going to keep going until we get a clear signal from the government, both locally and at the federal level. So that's kind of where we are as a team. And then what we noticed was the Austrian government kind of had similar regulations of everyone's working from home. Slack, you know, Google Hangouts. We spending a lot of time on video, making sure we are connected as a team. And you know, just that spirit of how we operate and talk to each other continues. As a business, we are a bottoms up business. So, what I mean by that is folks sign up, they use the product. And developers are right now globally still fully functional. The only difference being they're now working from home. So we feel like as a business, we'll be fine. And we are ensuring that our customers through this transition and through this period of kind of unknowns are able to continue to be successful for their customers. >> It's funny, I was talking with someone, it's like there's going to be some, obviously, sectors, like events are going to take a big hit. South by got canceled, Coachella's being canceled. All the tech events are being canceled. That's why we're going to be doing our stuff at the studio with virtual events, for theCUBE. But certain things are going to be different. You going to see pregnancy, boom. You know, nine months later, people are going to be having kids cause they're home alone or divorces depending on how you look at it. But productivity, developer wise has been talked about as actually developers want to just crank out some code. They don't have to come into the office. You can be more, I mean you can still be productive. Developers have been doing this for decades. >> I think-- >> At least if they are more. >> You know, I think you, you know, I think there might be a scenarios of adjustment, a period of adjustment. And then folks will get comfortable. So, it's super important to create that engagement model. Whether, do you have the tooling to keep the team engaged. And there companies that are completely remote. And so we're making sure we learn from their best practices around that. But I do believe that, for tech companies or even for manufacturing companies focused on building software, developers are going to be productive. >> Okay, so a baby boom's coming, divorce rate's going to go up and productivity is skyrocketing. (both laugh) >> For developers. >> For developers. Well, I mean it's a good time. Okay, can I get your take on the industry now. Honestly, putting all the coronavirus aside, we saw a surge in public cloud check. Done. And ask you when your VMware with NSX coming in and becoming the engine with software defined networking as part of the Series piece. You're starting to see hybrid clear as day. It's going to happen. Multi clouds on the horizon. So, you now have a three wave cloud game going on. Wave one, done. Wave two is hybrid. Wave three maybe bigger than them all with multicloud. Do you agree with that trend analysis and what's your take on that? >> So, this is where I'll probably kind of look back at my time at VMware. I think, you know, definitely see the multicloud wave catching on. But I would use the word multicloud as in, not a app spread across three clouds as much as, you know, a company choosing to have a certain assets in AWS, certain assets in Azure, certain in Google. So, I don't see yet this idea of an app being stretched across the three clouds but definitely, while I was-- >> VMware tried that. (both laugh) >> While I was at VMware and in talking to customers, we definitely saw adoption of multiple clouds. And that's where when I was working with the cloud health team, this idea of managing cost and security across three clouds became very common as a pattern that came up. You definitely see that as a kind of directional thing that a lot of organizations are doing. >> Yeah, the idea of just rapidly shifting up workloads based on pricing, all that stuff. I think it's aspirational at best because development teams are now just getting their groove on with hybrid and operation, cloud operations. So, I can see a day where if you can manage the latency network issues, maybe some day, but I mean, come on, really? I think about how hard that is, just latency alone. >> And the issue is like, architecturally you have to make really good choices to get there. So, I think you might see that in like kind of tech software firms. We're thinking about, how do I stay cloud neutral? But for the most part, if you want to take the full value of AWS or full value of GCP, you want to go deeper in there. And use all their services. >> Yeah, I think that's great insight. Let's riff on that a little bit because one of the things I was talking to Dave Alante and Stu Miniman about was, if you look at the multicloud, I don't think it's going to come from a vendor. I think if you look at the success of the Facebooks of the world, even Dropbox where your founders came from, early on, they had to just basically build it from cloud native, from ground up. And all the hyper scalers use open source. They built all their stuff. No one was selling them anything. They just did it. So, I think you'll see smart architectural moves, but that'll be the unicorn. That'll not be the standard. That'll be the exception, not the rule. I don't think you can sell multicloud, in my opinion, yet, or I don't think that'll even be possible. But I think someone will come out and say, make those architectural decisions saying, "I have an architecture that works multicloud because we architect it that way." >> Yup, yup. And I think that's kind of the more, kind of from an engineering standpoint, I think you'll see more of that. I think from a, you know, from a kind of solution standpoint, you will see folks saying, "I will help you manage or secure or build into each of the clouds and give you kind of common pattern versus the latter of it." And engineering team says, "Here's a way to architect for multicloud." >> You know, we pay a lot of attention to the next gen kind of psychologies. Obviously, we do a lot of coding on with our cube cloud that's coming out now. But, how do you see the founders you're working with and that in this new peer group that's developing. I call it, the next gen entrepreneur, technical entrepreneur. As they look at the vast resources of cloud and all of the data opportunities there and mobility, internet things and all this stuff going on. What is the general mindset right now of these kinds of entrepreneurs from a technology perspective? How are they looking at the problem space? What's your take on this new landscape as an entrepreneur? >> Yeah, I'll give you kind of what got me super excited about Sentry. Like how, why did I think about that? Which is if you look at 2000 to 2010, we did software defined infrastructure. Things started moving into software. 2010 to 2020 was, as you correctly wanted a cloud, hybrid, everything became kind of as a service. I think this next decade will be about data. So, companies using the data to get a competitive advantage or figuring out, you know, how to stay ahead, whether it's competitively or even to win a market. And the other aspect of this is because everything is so, as a service, API centric, I think it's going to explode how we develop things. And I think this is going to be truly now the decade for the developer, who's going to make deeper choices, greater choices, buying decisions. And so, with data kind of exploding, and the management of it and getting insights out of it is one aspect of it. And, you know, as somebody who's looking at Sentry, we do a lot of that, right? Which is how are customers using it? What are they using? What languages? And everything else that goes with that. But on the other end, developers are going to start kind of using things and create a whole new set of use cases that's going to change the way we think about it. So I think there's a whole set of elements around how to use this infrastructure to build new applications, creative products, that is going to be a massive boom. >> I think that's a great point. I think that's great insight. Because you think about observability, which I was just joking earlier on about, but I think the relevance observability is network management applied to value real time, right? Because if you can instrument everything, the smart people are going to saying, "Hey, I can just instrument this and get the data I need rather than dealing with this hassle process we had before." So, it brings up that kind of philosophy of kill the old to bring in the new or something new that kills the old. So, it's an interesting phenomenon. I think it's very relevant. But I want to get your, question as a CEO now, you've got, you're at the helm, helm of a company is technical. And talking about architecture, what's your architecture for the venture? What's your plans? How do you see the, you said you're going to come and build this next level growth. What's your architecture look like? Are you going to, do more of the same? Any new things that we see? What are you going to... What's your plan? >> Fundamentally, you know, we as a kind of set of users in the world today, have spent a lot of time monitoring, as I told you earlier, machines, systems and applications, right? And so there's a lot of successful companies doing that. But if you fundamentally believe that this is the decade where you're going to write more code than we've ever before or refresh more applications than we've ever before. Our focus is code and how it does whether it's in a staging environment, in a canary deployment, or in production. How do we measure code and monitor code in production. And the impact of that code to the end users. So it could be errors and now increasingly code performance. So you will see us kind of venture into this idea of helping developers. Not only find issues that they run into production like we talked about before, but also be able to say, looks like over the past three releases, our logins per second have gone down progressively by 10%. Why is that happening? Where is that happening? Which team made that change? So, you will see us kind of really double down on this idea of measuring and monitoring code going forward, complimenting how we measure monitor systems, machines and applications today. >> Yeah, I mean, code has got to be managed, as people more, people contribute. It's like a compiler for the compiler. (laughs) >> It's like if code fails, your business-- >> Code for the code. >> Yeah. >> Meta three meta meta as they say, but code for the code. But that's, it's basically code management in a way, right? It's the code data. You're leveraging that code relationship to the application. >> And so we talk about applications a lot. And so we write code, we store code, you know, in a getRepository. Now there's a whole set of elements around securing it. We deploy it. What about measuring and monitoring it? That is the element where we focus and kind of bring that whole cycle together. Helping that application developer be successful. >> What's it like for you going from VMware to the startup? What's the biggest, coolest thing that's happened? >> It's been a great transition. You know, and I always say this to folks who ask me for career advice. They say, always choose the people you work with and the people you work for. And I've been fortunate enough to do that and I think this transition has been great for that reason alone. Which is I've had the time to get to know the team at Sentry. They got to know me and it's just been, it's been fantastic. I think the velocity of and the pace at which I can make changes, has been the most fun part of it. >> And you've got like 25, 20000 paying customers 50000 total customers roughly in that range. Pretty sizeable. Employee count, how many employees do you have? >> 100 plus employees and-- >> Still small, still small. >> Yeah, still small. And we're going to probably double this year, give or take. And you know, it's 20000 customers from every startup. I've spoken to a startups, over 100 startups in two months. And it's amazing to see their reaction and their love for Sentry. >> And funding, how many rounds of funding have you guys done? >> We just finished Series C, in September of last year. 40 million, any Accel growth. So, we feel really good about where we are. With the revenue ramp that we've seen, we're in great shape. >> And pretty good numbers in terms of a head count too, very leveraged SaaS model. Get the developers. >> Yes. >> Great. Well, we're going to be entertaining a lot of developers at DockerCon this year. DockerCon used to be an event for Docker. Now they sold half the business to Mirantis. They're focusing on Docker developers. We have an event here. We're doing a virtual event. So, a lot more developer action coming. We'll talk more about that. Love to meet your founders, have them come in too. We want to thank you for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Milin Desai, CEO of sentry.io, former VMware executive with a great hot startup, Series C funded, growing here in Silicon Valley, San Francisco and in Austria. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (vibrant music)

(upbeat techno music) >> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering VMworld 2018, brought to you by VMware and it's eco-system partners. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage day three of three days of coverage, VMworld 2018 here in Las Vegas, CUBE wall-to-wall coverage, 94 interviews, two sets, our ninth year covering VMworld, I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stuart Miniman on this segment, our next guest is Milin Desai, who is the Vice President and general manager of Cloud Services at VMware, formerly driving the NSX business, been there for multiple years, eight years. Great to see you, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So you've seen the evolution, you've been there, you've been in the boat. NSX, on a good path, doing really well, cloud services, very clear visibility on what strategy is. >> Mm-hmm. >> Private and public, hybrid multi-cloud, validated by the leader AWS and Andy Jassy, again for the second year. So pretty clear visibility at least on what the landscape looks like. >> Mm-hmm. Multiple clouds, software driving all the value. What's the cloud services piece that you're running now? Take a minute to explain what the landscape looks like, what's your charter, what are you trying to do, and what's happening with news and announcements? >> Sure, so about two years back we started on this journey around cloud services. And the premise was that, increasingly, there are two trends taking place which is; SaaS delivered experiences for on prem. So how can we deliver SaaS experiences on prem? As well as the partnership with, you know AWS for VMware cloud on AWS. So the two things started coming together both in terms of a product opportunity, which is VMware cloud AWS. But overall delivering our capabilities as SaaS, both hybrid as well as in the public clouds. So cloud services is a portfolio that delivers VMware services from management, to security, to operations, as SaaS services to the private cloud as well as to the public cloud. >> Tom Corn, the Senior Vice President of general security projects, was just on theCUBE today as well before you came on. He said, I asked him for a prediction and I'll ask you at the end too, for a 2019 prediction, but he said, "I see the conversation starting to be "security as a service someday," and he's kind of like connecting the dots a bit. But that proves the point it's a SAS business model. The services need to be consumable and scalable. This is a key design criteria and a product guiding principal right, for you guys? >> Yes, So increasingly SaaS makes it easy. The value benefits on that is I don't need to operate, it just works and I can get the value out of what we are delivering. And that's really what's driving the adoption of SaaS. It's easy to use, it gets you to outcomes quicker, and I don't need to worry about the management elements of that and so whether it's you take our updates to cloud management, we announced Cloud Assembly, Service Broker, and Code Stream, all delivered as SaaS to our hybrid infrastructure as well as if you want to deploy workloads in AWS or Azure, same thing. AppDefense, Tom's product, is delivered as a SaaS service. VMC on AWS is a managed SaaS service. So you're seeing that come together as VMware. The idea is can we bring that experience on prem as well as in the hybrid cloud? >> Yeah, Milin really interesting topic because often what gets lost when we're talking about multi cloud is what really matters, is applications and the data that sits on top of it. Maybe walk through a little bit, my on premises vs my SASified stuff vs the cloud native and PKS. How much of the business is driven from all of these pieces? >> So the majority of our business right now, is on premise software. Where customers are building and operating the infrastructure with our software. Now the first evolution into SAS was actually with our service providers, who are using the subscription model to deliver VMware as a service to their end customers. And then the second iteration of that is VMware cloud on AWS, which is growing really well. Both in terms of adoption as well of number of customers and now you are seeing the next evolution. So I would say from a numbers standpoint it's low, but in terms of number of customers adopting it, that number is high. So whether it's cloud operations with Wavefront or the whole automations suite that was launched, AppDefense. We are starting to see the shift to SAS but I would say the majority of our customers are on on prem software with VMware cloud foundation which includes NSX, and a visualized management portfolio which has been driving the majority of the revenue. >> I got to ask you about NSX relative to the cloud services because one of the things we've been pontificating and analyzing is how multi cloud is really going to work and we always try to compare and contrast to networking because Stu and I love networking and storage and some of the infrastructure stuff but if you go back into the evolution of TCPIP and what that did for the industry and Gelsinger likes to talk about this too, is NSX the kind of enabler that TCPIP was? TCP and then you had IP, created a lot of value, in inter-networking. What does the customer challenge look like when you're doing multi-cloud? It's not trivial it's hard to do. Is there a inter-operability framework, is it NSX? What could that be? >> Great question. I think as we go from private, to public, to the edge the virtual cloud network is what connects it all together and so definitely from within the data center with now the Velo Cloud acquisition the WAN, and then layering it with analytics and observability with visualized network insight, the portfolio of NSX allows you to connect these disparate data islands and operate very seamlessly, in this hybrid cloud world. Now the same construct applies, when you go native public cloud, where you can connect into AWS or an Azure and that's where, again the Velo Cloud acquisition alongside how NSX is extending its security policy, into AWS and Azure so that you can get the same security posture on prem, at the Edge, in VMC on AWS, with our VCP providers, as well as Native AWS and native Azure. So definitely NSX is that connective tissue, that's why we call it the Virtual Cloud Network, connects the Hybrid Cloud to the Multi Cloud. >> Seamlessly? >> Seamlessly. >> One of the feedbacks I get from users is, you know multi-cloud is challenging. There's that big elephant, how do I get my arms around all of the pieces where'll my data lives? Maybe give us an update there. I did have a chat with Joe Kinsella on theCUBE yesterday. So if CloudHealth Technologies fits into that overall cloud management piece, I'm sure it does, and you can give a little bit of guidance? I'd like to understand how that fits. >> Yes, you know we talked a lot about SAS and delivering VMware services as SAS to vSphere customers but there's this other world where people are going native AWS, native Azure, native GCP. The interesting thing I tell folks is it's very easy to consume cloud but as you start consuming it, you start dealing with tens of thousands of objects, across multiple projects, hundreds of projects across thousands of users. And when you start looking at the problem statements, same things, visibility, lack of visibility, resource management, you tend to over provision to in the cloud, right? By now you're paying by the drip so there's a definite impact to the bottom line. End to end observability and then configuration compliance. Think about this, you're operating at 10X in terms of changes, the chances of making a configuration mistake like leaving an S3 bucket open, are quite high. >> We've seen examples of that, too. >> Exactly, many a CIO have been fired because of that issue. So what we've been seeing with our customers is this has become a data problem, right? So the acquisition of CloudHealth allows us to essentially provide a platform that has that data, and then deliver to our customers in the native cloud, visibility, I say cost management so using reserved instances over on demand, resource management, hey your old provision on your elastic block storage we can reduce the storage capacity and save money. I can optimize RDS better. Sequel right sizing in Azure, so resource management becomes very interesting. Returns on a typical customer with CloudHealth are upwards of 60%. When you take that into consideration with real time security configuration, Secure State was just announced in beta, this week so real time security configuration. When that mistake happens with an S3 bucket being open? Sub 10 seconds we will notify the user that there is a mis-configuration in the cloud, please go fix it. >> Yeah, I'm curious, one of the other challenges is when I have, especially using lots of different SAS providers, public cloud, private cloud, data protection is a big challenge there. I know VMware has a lot of ecosystem partners, one of the hottest things over the couple years. Is that primarily an ecosystem play? How does VMware position there? >> Yeah so in the hybrid cloud world, like you said we have a very strong ecosystem, multiple vendors here exhibiting, there will be some default elements that we bring into vSAN to help kind of the basics of data, you know back up and management but we will definitely continue to partner with our ecosystem when it comes to an aggregate stack of data management but there will be pockets of just simple back up capabilities that you'll start seeing in vSAN, I think we announced the beta of that this week. >> Talk about your organization, do the general managers, do you have a profit loss responsibility so do you have revenue? >> Yes. >> Talk about the team, how you guys are set up. How big is the team? What's the focus? >> Our team, there's two elements to my team. One is my team drives cloud service across VMware so there are folks developing services themselves. The size of the team is now 70 strong across product, marketing and engineering. And then I also work with my counterparts like Mark Lohmeyer, AJ Singh who are building services on our common platform, right? And it's an aggregate to the customer, they come to cloud.vmware.com they federate their enterprise identity, they log in, they see our catalog. It's like a Netflix-like catalog. You can subscribe to it, you get a common experience in terms of billing and essentially start using the services. So it's not only what my team builds but an aggregate what VMware is building and offering to our end users. >> And what go to market do you have? Which products are you doing that go to market for? >> It's all of our SAS based cloud services. We collectively drive the go to market for that as a team working with our corporate marketing team. >> Awesome. >> Yep. >> So that would be a combination of VMware on AWS, AppDefense, now Secure State, Wavefront, and very soon CloudHealth. >> Yeah, a lot of pressure. (laughing) >> Do the SAS product share, do they live in like the AWS marketplace, IBM, you know DOC or what? Where can they get all of them? >> Today you go to cloud.vmare.com and subscribe to them. Certain offers are starting to get into AWS Marketplace, so CloudHealth is actually in the AWS marketplace. >> Sure, sure. >> And we are looking at Wavefront, which is a hidden jewel in our portfolio is also we are thinking about how can get it into the respective marketplaces of Azure, GCP, and others. But today if you want to access any of these services, you simply go and trial it by just going to our website and starting a trial. >> So they've given you all the new stuff, make it happen. AWS, VMware, AWS, vice versa. RDS on premises, you doing that as well? >> Yes. RDS on vSphere, since the announce we've had phenomenal conversations over here. >> Yeah, it's really exciting, I think people don't understand how big this is. >> John, I had a phenomenal conversation with Yanbing and Christos from the storage and availability business who just really broke down how all of that worked in detail. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> The customer interest is high. Someone asked me, why RDS? And they said it's such a hard problem and that was my point exactly, there is such a pain when it comes to managing databases and just like everything else, we started off the conversation, customers want a managed service. They don't want to deal with the intricacies of managing databases, they just want the outcomes from how they access databases. Amazon has solved it very elegantly with RDS, it's one of their most popular services. Why not bring it on prem? So that's been a great engineering partnership we are driving with them, and I'm really excited to bring it to market, shortly. >> Well we're looking forward to keeping in touch, we wanted to actually follow up with you on that. It's a story we're going to be following, certainly developing, it's big news, we love it. Thanks for coming on and spending the time. I got to get you to put a prediction out there for 2019. What do you see happening in 2019 that we're going to be talking about next year at VMworld? Personal prediction, could be a VMware prediction. You've seen a lot of what's going on with NSX, you see what's going on in the big picture, wholistically what is the prediction for 2019? >> It might be a boring prediction, but I fundamentally believe this notion of hybrid being bi-directional in nature. I think you'll see more of that. Even Google announced GKE on vSphere, as an example. So I think you will see more of that come through and it won't be a one way destination conversation that we keep having. And you will see VMware truly be a multicloud company. It won't matter if you're deploying the application in the native cloud, or in a vSphere based cloud. We will help the customer where they land the application. My firm belief is next year when we are here, we'll be talking about stories about how we are helping scale customers in Azure and AWS and GCP on one end, and about how we brought cloud on prem with services like RDS. >> Final question, I'm going to put you on the spot. What do you think is the biggest disruptive enabler for the next 10 years in this bi-directional multi cloud world? Can you point to one this that says, that's going to be the disruptive enabler for the next 10 to 20 years? Is there something out there you can point to, trend, technology, the standard? >> So the way I think about the world is a little bit differently in terms of I truly believe that we are getting inundated by data. I'm not talking about the data that you store in terms of running your business but in terms of the metadata that you run your operations and your infrastructure with. And I believe that the layer that will control that portion, the metadata of infrastructure and applications, we have not even begun to understand where that goes and then you apply AI and ML techniques to that? The idea of, I'll throw a term around here, self driving data centers and self optimizing applications I get really excited but it all begins with that data layer. And we are starting to put the beginning signs with CloudHealth, our private cloud assets to start that process. I'm really excited about how AI/ML meets that data layer to achieve those outcomes. >> It automates IT operations, sounds like automation's coming. Milin, thanks for coming on. Milin Desai, he's the vice president general manager of VMware's cloud services. The hottest area, it's emerging, it's got a lot of attention. We'll be following it, of course, on siliconANGLE and Wikibon and theCUBE. We're day three coverage here in the broadcast booth in Las Vegas in the VM village. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

(techy music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18 here in Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by CJ Desai. He is the Chief Product Officer for ServiceNow. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE again, CJ. >> Thank you, it's great to be here. First time I came was last Knowledge, which was my first Knowledge, so I'm a lot more educated and equipped this time as compared to firing round of questions from Dave last time. >> We will pick your brain, exactly. So you were up on the stage this morning, a great keynote, and you said, "Welcome to the era of great experiences." Unpack that a little bit. What do you mean by that? >> First of all, thank you for remembering that. That was supposed to be the idea. But on a serious note, we feel, if you think about even our company name is ServiceNow, so you provide service, and when you provide service, that's not a technology you provide, you provide an experience, whether it's IT service, customer service, employee, whatever the case might be. And, if you are not delivering experiences, then you are not that relevant. So we are trying to truly, and we are in the beginning of this journey, truly internalize that, that if people are using us, they call themselves service desk, insider organization, IT service desk, customer service desk, whatever the terms you want to use, there is about experiences. Rather than focusing on bits and bytes, we want to focus on experiences, deliver those experiences via our platform. It's not software as a service, it's software as an experience. It's software as an experience, that's the idea, correct. Thank you for-- >> You also talked about the eras. You know, we went back to the industrial era and then went through the ages of computing. Yeah, I was not sure if that was going to work or not, but the point I was trying to make, Dave, was just around the quality of work and how work has evolved. That's it, that was the idea. >> But I think my takeaway was even more than that, because we are entering, in my view, anyway, a new era, and I'd love to get your comments. We're moving from what is real tailwind for you, which is the Cloud era, and obviously, Cloud is an important part of the new era where you have a remote set of services to one where you have this ubiquitous set of digital services that do things like sense, hear, read, act, respond. That's a different world, and it's all about the experience, and I don't know how to define that yet. Digital, I guess, is how we define it. But what are your thoughts? >> The one thing, even simple things, and these are not simple things to understand. When I look at things like even genomic sequencing, that's so different. They are using technology to figure out how to sequence the human genome so that it can help you with your health, live longer, even things like knowing that somebody rings a doorbell at my home and I can see on my phone. Everything is connected, humans are connected, when mobile came and computer came and internet came. But things being connected is pretty exciting for me. That just transforms our lives and how we work, and I really like that it is all about us, and other than us being focusing on the technology itself. So that's the point. It's that we're humans, and let's focus on humans and experience, rather than worry about, oh, this runs two times faster than the other thing, or this thing is smaller than other thing. That's interesting, but not that interesting. >> At this conference, this is really the message that you're getting across. It's the new tag line, we are making the world of work work better for people. How does the Now platform really deliver on that promise? How does it make the employees life easier? I would say we have a bunch of use cases, but as you know, we started out early on with IT service management, and the whole idea was can we provide, as long as computers are there, as long as software is there, password reset is going to be there for a very, very long time. So, my point is that that's when it started. Okay, I need to do password reset, I want to upgrade my laptop. Every year there is a new laptop, every year there is a new phone, and that cycle will continue, and as long as we are using technology for our knowledge workers, IT help desk will be there, right? And where we are evolving is enterprise service management, because you don't, as an employee, you may deal with IT, you may deal with HR, you may have a contractual issue with legal, you may need something related to your payroll from finance. People think payroll is HR, but payroll is finance. And as you try to go across in a day in a life of an employee, you need to make it as easy as possible. So that's what we are focused on, deliver better experiences. You know, artificial intelligence that listen today, I believe, is more about optimization, rather than intelligence. Yeah, we want to use your data to be able to predict, like if you see in Gmail, I don't know if you use Gmail, but if you have Gmail, you get an email, it'll suggest auto-responses. Those auto-responses are almost positive. Have you noticed that? They are never negative. >> Yeah. >> Oh, of course. >> They're like, no, I don't want to come to your meeting. (laughing) It's kind of like trying to predict most likely what you would want to say, and I think if we can use intelligence to make people more productive, that's what we want. >> I mean, I use that function. I actually like it. >> CJ: Yeah, exactly. >> You know, it gives you three choices, and one of 'em is pretty close to what I would normally, and if I'm busy, I'm done. >> Yeah, right, exactly. >> I like that. This is the other thing we've talked about. We've talked about this with Farrel this morning. Try to anticipate my needs, right? So that means you've got to infuse AI into the application and identify specific use cases. You guys have done some M&A there, you talked to the financial analysts meeting, obviously, not disclosing anything, but watch for us to do some more M&A. You got to believe that that machine intelligence space is really ripe for innovation. >> And what we believe is if I look at the big Cloud providers, like Google, are investing a lot in deep learning and many, many other technologies, so whenever they expose it, and some of them do a really good job, we will just leverage their libraries. But there are things specific to enterprise, because there are things specific to enterprise, like if you use the word network at a hardware company, that's always in context of compute network and storage. If you use the word network at a healthcare company, that's a network of physicians, networks of hospitals, networks of whatever. And if you use the word network at a Telco company, that is a whole different network. My point is we want to understand those pieces, and if we can make it easier based on your data, so if all your cases, which are, Oh, part of your network is down. Ah, that's what you mean from the context end point, so we want to use wherever folks like Google are investing, we will leverage that, but if we need to leverage, we'll do that too. >> It's interesting, we were talking to a customer today, it might have been Worldpay, and they took the CMDV language and transformed it into the language of the business. What a rare and powerful concept for somebody from IT to do that, because if the lingua franca is business, then the adoption's going to go through the roof. >> So does that make sense? >> Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Well, I appreciate you talking about the value and the customer experience versus the technology. Certainly, it speeds and feeds you right. Boring. But the platform is important. Many products, one platform, that's unique for an enterprise software company, and you guys aspire to be the next great enterprise software company. Talk about how the platform enables you to get there. >> So I will tell you simple. You know our founder, Fred Luddy, started with the platform in 2004, so that was 14 years ago now, and his idea was you should be able to route work through the enterprise using our platform, and then we started with the IT service management and use case. The biggest advantage we have is that we are a very customer-driven organization. Many companies say that, but you see it here. Dave, you have been coming to Knowledge for a long time, I don't know about you. >> This is my first rodeo, but it's cool. >> It's the first thing you see. >> These are 80-plus person sessions, are customer sessions. They're not our sessions, where they are sharing best practices with them. So we get all these requests, CJ, we have built emergency response system using ServiceNow, CJ, we have built financial close using ServiceNow. Can you productize it? And we say, okay, thank you for the idea, which is great, thank you for the idea. How do I prioritize all of that? And, Dave, where platform comes in, because all the services I talked about today, service intelligence, service experience, user experience, they're all built in the platform, and I'm trying to be cautious, but if I want to create a brand new product on our platform, a brand new product on our platform, 40-use case, a 1.0 product where I feel comfortable the customers can use it, I would say 12 to 18 engineers. That's it. >> Rebecca: Wow. >> If I want to create one product, it's 12 to 18 engineers. So the R&D leverage, and that's the point I was trying to get across, that whether it's my own team creating product or whether our customer building apps on our product, because on platform, because we provide all the common services integration, the incremental cost to create something, now sales marketing, with my close friend, Dave Schneider, is much harder, because he has to scale it, build specialty in it and all that, but to create the product is not an issue for us on the platform. >> But this is where Cloud economics are so important, because at volume, your marginal costs go to practically zero. >> CJ: That's exactly right. >> But people may say, oh, 12 to 18, that sounds like a lot, but we're talking about an enterprise class software product here, and Fred Luddy, in the 2004 time frame, I mean, the state of enterprise software then, frankly, and now, was terrible. The guys at 37signals, I don't know if you know Jason, they made valid attempts, but it wasn't enterprise class software, it wasn't a platform. I've said, a number of times this week, the reference model for enterprise software is painfully mediocre, so you guys have done a great job, and now you've really got to take the next step and stay ahead on innovation. >> Correct on innovation card, that's what I said, innovation should be my top priority. You heard me at the Financial Analysts Day. Customer Service Management, brand new product, we actually launched it at Knowledge 16. Okay, that's when we launched it. It was engineers and teens who created that product, so many teens, the 1.0, now we have evolved quite a bit, 500 customers two weeks ago, 500 enterprise customers. You guys know that we don't go to the small line of the business. 500 in two years, eight quarters. >> And I found out last night, I think it was 75, or it might even be higher, reference customers. >> CJ: Yeah, already, using CSM. >> That's the difference. I do, we do, a lot of these shows. >> That's the platform impact. >> And you're talking about the customer focus. You do a lot of these shows. The customers talk about the impact on their business. They don't talk about how they installed some box, or like you say, runs faster. It's the business impact that really makes a difference, and that's why we're excited to be here. >> You saw today when I talked about Flow Designer and Integration Hub. IT wants to provide software so that business analysts can model business processes in a Cloud way with whoever you need to integrate with, so we are really keeping that as the north star for our customers, and how can we make their life easier, whatever they want to automate, some manual processes, all of manual processes. I remember speaking to Fred when I joined initially, and I said, "Fred, how did you think about TAM?" He said, "What do you mean, TAM?" You know, he's a funny guy, and he was serious. His point was there are so many manual workflows, how do you put a TAM around it? Every business is unique, their processes are complex, so don't box yourself and say, Oh, this is a $4 billion TAM and I'm going to get 20% of it. Every enterprise, as long as they exist, they will have manual workflows, you go and give it our platform so they can automate however they want. >> Well, I'm going to make you laugh about TAM. I'm a former industry analyst, so when you guys did the IPO way back when, well before your time-- >> CJ: 2012. >> when Frank was here, there was a research company saying this is small market, maybe it's a billion dollars and it's shrinking, so I, with some of my colleagues, developed a TAM analysis, and it was more than 30 billion. I published 30 billion, you can go on our old Wiki and see that, and the guy said to me, "Dave, you can't publish more than 30 billion. You'll look like a fool." The TAM is much, much bigger than 30 billion. You can't even quantify it, it's so large when you start looking at it. >> And now, because people are recognizing that we automate all the manual workflows in a enterprise on a Cloud platform, last week somebody published a report and I just saw the headlines, I didn't go through the details, 126 billion. So from in 2012 to that small number, and we don't know what the number is. >> Could it be bigger? >> I would have no idea. I would be completely disingenuous if I told you I know what my TAM is, but I don't think that way. I say what customer problems can I solve? >> Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. So you're here with so many different customers. Just on the show, we've had ones in payments, in insurance, in health care. What are you hearing from customers, and what are sort of your favorite applications of what you're doing? What makes you the proudest? >> Yeah, so I would say the proudest moments for me are when I'm like, wow, you do that with ServiceNow? I would have never thought that. So when I didn't expect, when I expect something, Oh, I had this routine email, text collaboration, and I switched it to ServiceNow, get it, like not a big aha moment. I had this one customer who said he has a big distribution network, all these partners, and those guys have ServiceNow, he has ServiceNow, and when they have problem with the product, their product, my customer's product, they all communicate via ServiceNow to each other. So they have created a whole ServiceNow network, truly a B2B kind of exchange, kind of, using ServiceNow. One of our median and entertainment customers who owns a bunch of parks, they refill the popcorn machine using ServiceNow. When the popcorn levels dip, they have those people who carry around the cart, Oh! The popcorn level dip, it marks the sensor, it routines the workflow, goes to the corporate, Ah, we need to fill up popcorn on by this particular ride. For me-- >> And even at my house, I love it. >> Yeah, so that's exciting to me. >> We talked to Siemens today. >> Yes, great customer. >> Awesome, and I want to run a line by you. We talk about AI a lot, machine intelligence. I wrote down during, you know, data is the fuel for AI. Well, you know we love data here at theCUBE, and he was describing that, he said, you know, even though CJ was not prescribing taking the data out, we could leave it in so it learns, right now, we take some of the data out. Well, you described that. Well, we put it to SAP HANA, we throw a little Watson in there, we do some Azure, machine learning, we use Tableau for visualization, he's probably got some Hadoop and Kafka in there, a very complicated, big data pipeline. And I said to him, Okay, in two years, do you want to do that inside of ServiceNow? He goes, "Absolutely. That would be my dream come true." So, I guess I'm laying down the gauntlet. Do you see that as a reality? >> So, we are talk to Siemens, great customer, they keep us honest, so I love that and I did actually meet the team who was in charge of their BI and reporting and they did share the same story a few months ago when I met them. And we are trying to figure out, Dave, if I knew the answer, I would have told you, but you know my style. I don't know the answer. We are seriously trying to figure out, Do we become an analytics hub? We are really good with ServiceNow data, we can build connectors with other data, but do I want to be in the BI and reporting market? Absolutely not. Do I want to help customers as their processes span across and provide them more visual credit tools than others, text-based searches, whatever they need, the answer is yes. Performance analytics, as you know, we have been moving along really at a good pace, and now we have what every single product, but this is something that Eric Miller, who runs that business, we talk about it all the time, because currently our analytics is building the platform, and now you know that data has a Cloud issue, so if you have data here, you have data there, you have data there, we are in our own Cloud. Can we build a connector, potentially, to OnPrem? Don't know the answer, but this is something, it's a fair gauntlet having to solve. >> Humbly, I'd like to give you my input, if I may. >> Yes. >> We see innovation, as I said before, it's data, applying machine learning to that data, and then leveraging Cloud economics. The project with big data projects, as you well know, is the complexity has killed them. Now you see the Cloud guys, whether it's Amazon or Microsoft, and that's where the data pipelines are being simplified and built. Now, I don't know if it's the right business decision for you guys, but wow, wouldn't that be powerful if you guys could do that, certainly, for your customers. >> And, truly, that is, as you heard me on Financial Analysts Day, I'm a huge fan of Geoffrey Moore's work, and he defines system of record, ERP CRM, system of action where we fall in, and then he has System of Intelligence, which is all the things around data and how do you harness the power of data. And that's something that I really, in our product teams, we talk about all the time, if I can solve Siemens problem with everything in ServiceNow, that'd be awesome, but is that something I want to prioritize right now, or is there something, we should give them the flexibility. I don't know. >> Well, you're one of the top product guys in our industry. It's why they found you. No, seriously, I put you up there with the greats. >> You're kind, thank you. >> It's true. You've got an incredible future ahead of you. But as a lead product person, you have to make those decisions, and you have to be very circumspect about where you put your resources. You can't just run to every customer requirement, right? >> And I tell, coincidentally, my wife asks me What's your job, by the way? I said, that's a good question. >> I'm married to a product officer, too, I feel the same way. What do you do all day? You do a lot of meetings. >> Yeah, exactly. So I said that I do a lot of meetings, and she said why do you do a lot of meetings? And I said I'm making a some decision or help my team make a decision because they already analyze a bunch of things. And I said, my hope is, as long as I can make more good decisions than bad decisions, specifically about product strategy, because you never know unless you make the chess pieces move and think of two or three steps ahead, and some things could be right and some things could be wrong. I have a simple framework on my whiteboard for every meeting. No jokes, right? So, my framework is very simple. Question number one, What customer problems we are trying to solve. If you cannot articulate that, for any new product idea you have, I don't go past that question, What customer problem we are trying to solve? Second is Why now? Why do we need to solve this problem now? Like you said, there are many problems, which one are you prioritize? And then, third, Why us? Why should we solve that problem? So, if you can articulate the problem, which always is a challenge because you kind of know what problems you have, but unless you really, really understand the customer pain point, you cannot articulate it. Then you say, why now? Like why is the time right now for us to invest in this, say, analytics, as a service? Why right now? And, third, why you, as in why us? Why is ServiceNow should solve it? That, at least, gives me a guiding compass to say because I have many products, as you know, I am very protective of our platform, and all these use cases come in, every product line wants to go deeper, rightfully so, because they are trying to solve for customers, and the new products want to be built on this platform. Sometimes I say maybe a partner should build it, so we made a decision, facilities product, Should our ISB partner build it? And that's the right place because we feel they are more suited, they have the skill set, all of that. But that's it, what problem, why now, why you? >> Rebecca: Really, I love it. >> Well, the Why you? it's a great framework. The why you is unclear for the Siemens problem, and I can understand that. You take the DemOps announcement that Pat stole from you today-- >> I know, that's not cool, man. >> But that's a problem that you guys solved internally, clear problem. >> He did a nice job of articulating it, very nice job. >> Yeah, definitely. >> But we feel that there always is a process when you need a workflow across, because in planning there are a bunch of companies, as the patch, or in build there are a bunch of companies in develop there are a bunch of companies. That's fine. They could be the system of records for those chevrons and we are the workflow that cuts across. So we feel loved. We showed our value to our customers by doing that. >> Rebecca: That's great. >> I know we've got to go, but lastly, it's roadmap. Last year, you talked about how you guys do releases by alphabet, twice a year. You were really transparent today, laid out the room and talked a lot about Madrid, you laid out well into the future what you guys are doing so, as an analyst, I love that. I'm sure you're customers love it, so-- >> A lot of people to picture, so that's nice. And Twitter, a lot of people posted on social media as well, so clearly there was a customer pain point, as we call it, that they needed a roadmap. In speaking to customers last one year, number one thing, if you tell us what you're building, then we don't have to build it. If you tell us when you're shipping, then we can plan around it, and then we will set aside resources to do testing. Any Cloud software company, whether it's us, CRM software or HR software, people still test, because you cannot mess up your employee experience or customer experience, and they just said give us a predictable schedule, please, so that we know. We did say two times a year, but we were not prescriptive which quarter. It could be four months and eight months, it could be six and six, it could be seven and five. I'm currently going with the quarterly-level fidelity, and eventually, I want to get to a month-level fidelity, where I say March and September, once our internal processes are organized. >> So the other subtlety there, and I know we got to go, is the ecosystem, because you're giving visibility, they have to make bets. They're making a bet on service, but then where's the white space? They're betting on white space. If you're exposing that to them, they can say, Oh, not going to solve that problem. ServiceNow's going to solve it in two quarters. >> I agree. >> Huge difference for them. >> You guys are wonderful. Thank you so much for inviting me. >> Rebecca: Thank you for coming on the show. We appreciate it. >> No, that's awesome, thank you, thank you. >> Dave: Great to have you. >> Rebecca: Great to have you. I'm Rebecca Knight, for Dave Vellante. We'll have more from ServiceNow Knowledge 18 just after this. (techy music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> And we're back in Orlando, everybody, this is Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick, CJ Desai is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of ServiceNow, the newly-minted, 150 days in, CJ, great to see you off the keynote, fantastic job. >> Thank you, thank you, thank you. >> Very crisp, I was struck by your story about last October, when you were contacted by ServiceNow, you fired up the platform and started playing around and built an app. >> Yeah! (chuckling) >> And you found it was a good experience. >> It was a great experience, I'll tell you, Dave, from my standpoint, when you join a company that is built on a platform like ServiceNow, you want to make sure that you feel great about the foundational elements, because as always, you can build floors on top of a foundation, only when the foundation is strong. So ServiceNow always, I don't know if you know, but it started out as a platform company, and then they used the service management use case, and went deep in that use case, and then went to Operations Management and other products, as you know, and I just wanted to make sure that, hey, how easy it is, if I'm a customer, or if I'm in the product development organization, to create an app, and having that strong foundational layer, even simple things like, it's the cloud offering, first of all, you have a integrated development environment, you can start creating workflows, UI, all of that is so easy, and there's no headache of figuring out how to deploy the app, because it's right there, so you just publish it and you're done. >> Yeah, it's interesting, one of the first CUBE interviews we did at Knowledge was with Doug Leone, the famous VC, and he told the story of, he saw this, "What am I going to do with this?" And sent Fred away and said, "Build something on top of it," and that's what happened, but. But help our audience understand, CJ, because you talked about Jakarta today. >> Yeah. >> Now, Jakarta is a platform capability, and if we understand it correctly, we were talking about it earlier, the business units have to figure out, "Okay, how do we apply that capability "to our particular needs, and our customer needs," so explain that. >> Yeah, so ultimately, there are two things that happens in the products organization, right? First is, we do release this every six months, twice a year, so every six months, twice a year, and we go by alphabets, and we pick cities, just a fun factoid, we pick cities that go from North America or South America, to Europe, to Asia. So, H released last year, around this time, was Helsinki, after Helsinki was Istanbul, and then we have Jakarta, so are now in Asia, and then next will be Kingston, and the one after that is London, so you go alphabetically, and the reason we pick this city names in alphabets, we support our customers, because it's a multi-instance paradigm, n minus one and n minus two releases, so when you make, name of the cities, customers will have a conversation with me and say, "CJ, we went on Helsinki, we're upgrading to Istanbul, "or we're going to skip Istanbul, "and go straight to Jakarta," for example, so, first of all, that's our naming system that we use, every six months, you will see us talk about a specific release, and you heard from John yesterday, he was very clear in saying, "Listen, "our customers want to hear our roadmap, "they want to know what we are up to," and so we took that customer feedback to heart, and decided, why don't we just tell them what's coming in Jakarta? So Jakarta will be released this summer, and from a planning standpoint, Dave, to answer your question, we figure out first, what do our customers want, and is it in the applications that we talked about, like ITSM or CSM or security or HR, and for those applications to deliver the functionality, what do we need to do in the platform so that the functionality can be delivered? So the requirement process is a complex requirement process, the applications team will give requirements to the platform, customers also sometimes have requirements for the platform on scale, platform will build a functionality, applications team will build the features on top of it, so in Jakarta, which is coming out this summer, we have six new products, you saw some of them, software asset management and others, 30 major features, and that's close, so after Jakarta, we're already in planning for Kingston. After Kingston, I think I'm going to announce it for the first time, will be London, so it's Jakarta, Kingston, London, are the three-- >> Yeah, so when we go to these events, a lot of times, at the keynotes, somebody will make a product announcement and you get a little golf clap, it always happens at ServiceNow Knowledge that you get somebody hooting in the audience, today, the hoot came for software asset management, they were the three high level things you talked about today, performance with UX, and performance, and then the vendor risk management, which is very interesting, we'll talk about that a little bit, and then the software asset management, the guy must've been an Oracle customer hooting and hollering. But so, give us the high level overview. >> Alright, so, here is the thing, right? Our buyer is IT organization, we started with IT. We love our buyer, and CIO, to all the organizations that support CIO, head of infrastructure, the portfolio management team, the business management within IT. And one of the things that we saw, and this is the requirement that we got is, when we talk to CIOs about how to make the IT organization productive, because IT, it's a tough job, man, it's a tough job, things go down, you're like, "Okay, of course, IT," and technology's such an integral part of our life that people are always looking at IT to make sure they deliver great technologies. So, IT budget, and every, debated this all the time, everybody talks about IT budgets, what's happening to IT budgets, how the IT budget is going up or down, are you asked to do more with less, there are so many examples I can use, but as per Gartner, 25% of the IT budget is on software licensing. Then there is hardware and all the other infrastructure and people-related cost. 25%, so if, and as you know, some of the vendors put you through a pretty complex audit process, so why can't we, our chief buyer is IT, why can't we give them a platform, or a product, that allows them to discover how many products you are using by vendor, Microsoft, Oracle, some of you examples you used, for desktop, it's Adobe and others, you use these products, are you really utilizing all the licenses you have, or are you potentially in overage so that you actually have a sense of where you stand with every vendor that you're using that makes up your 25% budget. We talk to financial customers, manufacturing industrial customers, these are billions of dollars of budget, 25% is still a big number, any improvement in that 25% could go a long way, and what CFOs do not like is when CIOs go and tell the CFO, "Hey, we didn't clear this audit, "or potentially these guys may sue us "for a contract violation," so we decided we are going to create a product that helps you get a good posture on what your licensing is, does that make sense? And that's why, you know, I also saw on Twitter, a lot of people love this idea that, hey, can we automate this software as a management process, discover what's being deployed, allow you to reclaim, and at the end, help you save the cost. >> And the other one was the cloud management platform, which again, similar type of situation, especially with all the freemium services, and test dev, and card swiping, that they can get unruly pretty quickly. >> In my last job, as you are aware, I was in infrastructure space, and one of the things in speaking to customers, always realized that hey, IT was not agile enough, we decided, for some customers, we decided to go and use some of the public cloud services, re-enter infrastructure, because IT could not keep up with our demands, and you go and speak to IT, they say there is so much going on that sometimes it's not easy for devops communities, in particular, that you pointed out, so much going on. So, IT felt like they were losing control, developers, whether they're application developers in IT organization or in business units, just wanted agility, and IT felt like if they cannot deliver that level of service, you had the share-to-IT functions going on in the departments, and with cloud, we acquired a company called iTapp about a year ago in April. The first year was all focused on re-platforming, like I said today, I think many times, I'm sure people got sick of listening to me, is, we are going to re-platform every acquisition that we make, and we usually buy technologies in our business so far. And we re-platform it, and now, IT gets the control back, once for, you know, you help the developers, devops people, sure, go and use public cloud, but IT will still have a single pane of glass that allows you to look at your resource mapping, utilization, understanding the cost and the usage, whether you are on public cloud service, or in private cloud service. >> Well, it's huge, because it's very unpredictable, and people often complain, "Oh, I get the cloud bill at the end of the month," but a lot of times, there's not just one cloud bill, it's many, many cloud bills, and what happens, you know, you remember this, in the downturn, a lot of CFOs said, "Go to the public cloud, "eliminate Capax" and then, when we came out of the downturn, lines of business said, "I got to move fast, "and this cloud thing seems to be working for me." IT seems to have really, you know, in previous big picture trends like this, mega trends, IT oftentimes has been sort of pushing back, you saw that with client server. >> Yeah, their security concerns, compliances-- >> And today, they're announcing, okay, we have to embrace cloud, or we're toast. >> And Dave, I'll tell you, there are customers, I mean, some very large customers in regulated industries who tell me that, "CJ, we are now cloud first, "before we decide to do something," I mean, that's a pretty big statement, cloud first, I mean, if you remember 2008, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, that journey, and how customers were reluctant, and they're like, "I don't know, my data losing from here," and this and that-- >> Well, I got to bring this up, so, I was reading an article on SiliconANGLE, EMC World is going on, Dell EMC World this week, and Michael Dell basically made this statement in his keynote, "If you're a cloud first, "you could be in trouble because of the expanse," and so forth. I don't buy it. I think the other, I love you, Michael, but the value that customers are getting out of going cloud-first, maybe, yeah, maybe the bill at the end of the month is high, but the other residual effects on your business, the speed, the agility, the processes, you're seeing it, aren't you? >> I mean, I'll tell you straight up, there are customers that are asking us, because, you know, again, IT's our key buyer, and key customer, and we appeal to the IT department, and the CIOs, even at the CIO dinner the night before, people are embracing cloud. Now, they are on a journey, some of them have maybe mode few percent of their workload, some of them may have mode a little higher, but they're on some journey, and they're trying to balance when the cost pros out with the cons, or the cons out with the pros, but, can you give us some kind of control plane to manage our cloud resources, understand the usage, understand the billing, which we do for financial management, and tie-in with IT processes, because that resource life cycle, that VMU provision, right, that VMU provision in the cloud, what happens to the life cycle of VM, can you create an incident, can you close it out, that's equally important besides just saying, "Yeah, I'm going to move this particular workload to cloud." So I feel that customers are on this journey of some kind of combination of public and private cloud, and it doesn't have to be zero-sum game, infrastructure continues to grow, I don't feel like, okay, if you do this, that means you do not do private, or if you do private, that doesn't mean-- >> Certainly both, and containers are going to just exacerbate the problem. >> Right, and the demand for compute, store, and networking is not going down any time soon. >> I'll tell you, my role environment, so my team lends cloud infrastructure, so our platforms runs on cloud infrastructure, and you saw some of the elevated numbers, I mean, our growth, we are trying to invest in compute network storage ahead of our growth, so it's not, and we are a cloud service, so I always look at it as, this doesn't have to be zero-sum game, customers are expanding, they want the agility, like you said, the agility, the business is asking, "Can you develop this app faster, "can you give me what I need," is what's driving-- >> It's a topline game for businesses, Jeff, I just want to inject some of those numbers on your cloud, 50,000 instances, 150 million active users, and 10 billion transactions per month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, but I want to get, it's funny you're talking about Jakarta and London, I remember when we were doing interviews around Dublin, which I guess was a while ago, but I'm curious, 'cause there's this other trade-off, and get your perspective, is in a devops world, in kind of a continuous integration and development world, people want to push code frequently. On the other hand, in an enterprise world, and we've talked to a couple of customers, they can only take it so much, and so you've kind of got this yin and yang, and you want to get stuff out, and there's patches, and this and that, and you're on a relatively aggressive for current enterprise release schedule, on the other hand, the trend is clearly, just keep pumping it out, pumping it out, pumping it out, how do you see that kind of sorting itself out over time with these big enterprise customers? >> I will tell you, from a technology standpoint, there is nothing that prevents us from doing more frequent releases, yes, we have to mature our product release processes, we have to mature our cloud operations and how fast we can churn the code. There is nothing that prevents us, technically, from instead of two releases a year, maybe do four releases, it doesn't! But our customers, and we talk about customers first, listening to customers, you saw John today, I mean, we want to listen to them, and they will tell us, that I was at a large financial institution in Boston two weeks ago, and, your hometown, and they told me that, "I cannot do every six months, "I cannot do every six months, CJ, "we usually skip a release," right? And so we are just listening for specific use cases around service management, the processes, customer-run, same thing with operations management, right now, six months about feels right, every six months, release, we do quarterly patches, where we do not release features in those quarterly patches, and for emerging products, like you saw customer service, they challenge security, the team did a great job, when I look at those releases, is it potentially can we push things fast? Maybe, but right now, I'm okay, based on customer feedback. If customers come and say, "I want every three months," I hope to see what does that mean-- >> Let me run something by you, I told Jeff I've been sharing cabs with practitioners all week, it's great to just have wonderful conversations, and one said to me, "I've asked ServiceNow "if they can give me more granularity in the releases," I said, that doesn't sound trivial, in other words, if I can selectively choose features, is that even technically feasible? >> I mean, this is the isolating the feature, micro-feature development, making sure your schema is abstracted enough, I mean, there are companies in consumer world who do that, and push code out really fast. I would say, right now, one of the requirements I do get is, we're on IT service management, we have been a customer of ServiceNow for a while, but on this other thing, say, customer service, or HR, I want to take the new features, so my IT service management is at, say, Helsinki, but I want to take the HR, like the onboarding you saw, the onboarding, which is in Jakarta. So does that mean I need to upgrade this thing to leverage the HR feature? The answer is yes, because it's all built on single platform. Now, I do not want to do where customers, we give them two instances, and then we do a back-end pipe integration, a connector, so you can be on Helsinki for ITSM, and Jakarta, that-- >> Architecturally-- >> That breaks our model, and I do not want to do that. There are companies who, say, reside in different tenant, and will give you one for, I do not want to do that. >> I wanted to ask you about this too, CJ, because, you have a dogma, you have your own cloud, you see a lot of SaaS companies now saying, okay, you see Workday, a little bit of Salesforce, certainly Infor, putting their applications on AWS, for example. You guys, very proud of your cloud, you have availability, and I think when you show availability numbers, you downplay it, actually, people don't understand this, you're talking about application availability, you're not talking about the server light-- >> No. >> Okay, so you're very dogmatic about your cloud, and this issue here, you won't do something that maybe is going to help one customer but is going to ruin the experience down the road for all, and that dogma, is that a valid, it's not a criticism, it's an observation, and is that a good thing? >> So I would say there are some design principles, or operational principles that we live with, and we are going to stick to them, like we talk about acquisitions and re-platforming, think about, Dave, you have somebody coming in, you acquire a machine learning company, really smart kids, really smart people, machine learning or data sciences, an art more than a science, and looking at prediction accuracies and things like that. Now you tell them, "Welcome to ServiceNow, "here's your badge, you just got onboarded, "it's great what you've built, "we are not going to sell that standalone, "you need to re-platform," which typically takes one year, "Before we can launch your product." That's a tough message. That's a tough message for an engineering team to hear, that now I have to figure out how does this platform work, I mean, if I had a magic bullet, I would tell you, if I can wave the magic wand, I'll say, acquire this technology in machine learning AI, combine that with our organic development, it's a re-platform and I have a toolkit that does this thing, and it is a re-platform, but that's not easy. So on these kind of principles, whether it's re-platforming, how we do the releases, how we look at the cloud, and I want to answer your public cloud question. Right now, as you know, we're active, active, I've seen your interviews in the past here, we're active, active, we have eight pair of data centers, 16 around the world, and we make sure with our multi-instance architecture, the availability of the uptimes are very high for our customers, and when they upgrade, we know, they can pull the upgrade, "I'm going, CJ, "from Helsinki to Istanbul, or Helsinki to Jakarta," and that's available, but, can we potentially look at moving our footprint, and renting infrastructure in a public cloud? I'll never say never, but right now, there is no need for it. >> No, you see it, and there are advantages to having your own cloud. I want to ask about your role as Chief Product Officer. Fred Luddy had that title, we were sort of joking earlier, Fred was a coder, the company brought Frank in for adult supervision, and so you're inheriting that title, but I sense that you're a different type of manager, what do you bring to ServiceNow? >> I'll tell you, first of all, Fred, Frank, and even Dan McGee, who had this role last year, he was here, I saw his interview, he's here today, phenomenal people, I mean, I have interacted with all three of them, Dan McGee helped me transition into my role, Frank hired me, and just great, great guy, and even with Fred, going through this user experience, how do I think about the user experience based on the persona, he's always there to provide input with lots and lots energy and feedback. So let me just tell you for, in less than 30 seconds, what my role is, right? My role is, I help platform team, and the cloud infrastructure team, that's lead by Pat Casey, who is doing CreativeCon tomorrow, I have individual application general managers that you saw some of them today, and I also have the customer support organization, and the user experience teams. So that's my overall responsibility, so it's the responsibility that Fred Luddy had til last October, and Dan McGee had til last December, combined into one. So, it's a big job, and it comes with a lot of responsibilities on behalf of our customers, you talk about high availability number, we help to make sure that we keep our cloud service up and running secure, but at the same time, bringing this innovation in platform and the applications is my job. So, I'd done, fortunately, when I started out of college, makes me sound old, I know, but when I came out of college, I worked for a company that was doing business applications for a long time, eight years there, and I worked in that applications technology team, I worked in the CRM applications, did things for financial applications, and I went on security software, understanding how you protect the applications you write, all the way from OS up to the application stack, and then I worked for a infrastructure company, as you know. So that gave me a really good feel on the entire stack, how do you scale that stack, and be maniacally focused on, what do customers want? I mean, I am very fortunate to have great customer relationships, many companies around the globe, I reach out to them, ask them, tell me what you think, tell me what we are doing well, so customer focus, having done product development for 20-plus years now, and understanding all the way from application stack to the underlying infrastructure, is where I can help-- >> Yeah, it's like a triple threat that you have, the product innovation, the enterprise class, security, and scaling, as you mentioned, very, very important. Alright, CJ, I love having you on theCUBE, you're a great guest, we could continue, but we got to leave it right there. Great to see you again-- >> Thank you, thank you so much, I really appreciate it. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, this is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17, we'll be right back.

>> LIVE from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of VMworld 2018! I'm Lisa Martin, finally paired up with Stu Miniman. Hey, Stu! >> Lisa, three days, wall-to-wall coverage and how have you and I not been paired together yet? >> Did you do the scheduling, Stu? >> Um. >> That's okay. I'm glad to be paired up with you. The last interview, saving the best for last. Speaking of the last, we've got two guests, welcoming back some alumni to theCUBE, who also seem to be so busy at VMworld that you come to us as our last guests. I like this tradition. >> You had be the bookend, you know? Got to be the bookend. >> Best for last. >> Exactly. We've got Ajay Patel, SVP of VMware, and Russ Reeder, CEO of OVH US. Welcome, guys! >> Thank you, great to be here. - Thank you. >> Saving the best for last. >> Best for last, you bet. >> So, last year just, yeah, VMworld last year, vCloud Air acquisition by OVH had just happened. Give us an update on what's gone on in the last year and the momentum that that is giving the OVH business in the U.S. >> So, we're super excited to be here on second year as a Diamond Sponsor. We, as OVH Cloud, coming to the U.S. is a great opportunity. OVH is the largest hosting company in Europe. Everyone knows who we are in Europe, we come to the U.S. a year and a half ago, every one's like, who's OVH? We acquire vCloud Air, partnered with VMware, which is old news in Europe. For the past nine years, we've been virtualizing vSphere, seven of those nine we've been the award winning partner in Europe. So coming to America, the best way to really launch with the VMware partnership is to acquire vCloud Air. All of those customers, and brought over those employees, and the best news is that we just launched two months ago, starting to migrate those customers over to OVH Cloud. >> Fantastic. >> It's very exciting. >> Yes. >> Ajay, so, Multi-Cloud being the story of the show, we've seen really the maturation after, you know, we've been tracking this for a lot of years. It was like, okay, do we have the VMware Cloud story? Are we happy with it? Things like that. So first of all, congrats to you and your team. >> Thank you. >> We've had some good proof points, a lot of partners I hear. >> Absolutely. >> I'm joking to you, it's like, yeah, OVH- >> OVH clearly one of the important ones. (laughs loudly) >> So, you know, put this in perspective for us as to, from the vCloud Air world to, you know, we're talking AWS, IBM, OVH and many others. >> Stu, you and I talked about it a couple of times now, this is year number four, so thank you for inviting me, first of all. Our strategy's been consistent. How do we get VMware running on as many destinations as possible? And Hybrid, for us, has been a strategy that's been consistent. Glad the market caught up, even having Andy Jassy talk about moving RDS and making it available to vSphere on-prem is really a sign of maturity that the world is going to be hybrid for a long time. So from a strengths perspective, Hybrid is here to stay and we're really focused on what we've been calling this Cloud Verified Partner. So, OVH is a handful of partners that have reached that highest level achievement of delivering a full-stack VMware CDC and it can have a consistent infrastructure experience that cost customers 10 dollars. So we're at a point where the strategy's being realized. Strategic partners like OVH are delivering a full-stack VMware and customers are seeing the value of delivering Cloud, whether public Cloud or on-prem on vSphere. >> Russ, as I said, multi-cloud, it's matured a bit. You know, one of the big questions we had coming into was that AWS partnership, how much of it is a one-way? Well, things like RDS, really interesting. I've spent a bunch of time digging into it and understanding it. The other thing is, it's as Ajay said, the strategy was VMware everywhere. And partners like yourself, okay, where do we play? You know, public cloud's not the enemy, it's what do we do, what do we partner with? How they're help fitting the landscape as to, you know, how OVH and, you know, how do you play in that larger ecosystem and differentiate and, you know? >> Yeah, I think the third generation of the cloud here coming to multi-cloud is kind of going the first generation of hey, someone needs to do it for me. AWS, I'm going to do it myself. Now, hey, I want to do it myself, but I need multi-cloud. I'm not going to put all my eggs in one basket, I need a true infrastructure partner where I have predictability on billing. I don't have ingress or egress charges. I have a true infrastructure partner with the automation that can scale globally. And so, 20 years ago when we started OVH in Europe, the opportunity there was wide open. Coming here to the U.S. now it's a perfect opportunity in multi-cloud where all customers are saying I need to get out of my closet. I have seven-year-old machines in my Colo facility. I'm all-in-one whether it's AWS, or IBM, or another partner out there, they need to put different workloads where they would work best or DR. So coming in as a true infrastructure player with all of our automation, it's actually perfect timing for OVH to come to the U.S. and laugh OVH Cloud. >> So I'm curious, obviously with the European you have their legacy as we've transitioned and it's a spectrum but from kind of the traditional hosted environment to you're almost fully satisfied when you go this. >> Sure. >> The US, do you still have the spectrum or are you more built the modern with the vCloud Air being the foundation? You know, what spectrum of services are you offering customers? >> We offer the full spectrum. We had the opportunity to take OVH, all of our experience and systems, take the next generation of OVH in Europe, launch it in the U.S. and then bringing that back to Europe. So what we're launching in the U.S. is a full spectrum. The initial launch with VMware, fully hosted suite of the VMware products. So we have the VMware, the vSphere, vSAN, NSX offering that we've just announced. And having nine years of experience with vSphere as a service is a great opportunity to launch that. We also have a public cloud and that's the open source OpenStack public cloud, which is a different unique opportunity for a lot of companies that don't want to go the traditional public cloud. We also, being one of the largest dedicated server providers. It's all built on dedicated server, even server-less compute. And so you have to find a infrastructure partner that doesn't want to provide solutions first, and how do we rack and stack second. We understand the infrastructure and the network globally to help our partner's succeed. >> Ajay, I wonder if you could speak a little bit to the portfolio that your partners get to get access to from VMware. I was just interviewing Milin Desai, who you know oh so well. And the SAS piece is so, you know, it gets lost. You know, infrastructure as a service is one piece, but, you know, it's applications and services and, you know, yeah. >> Yeah, so far our cloud provider partners, what we've done is we introduced something we call Cloud Provider Platform. It gives them all the tools they need to sign up for Cloud, as Russ talked about, in a dedicated cloud. We give you a multi-tenant cloud. We're also, now with our cloud hub announcement, taking the VMware IP Cloud Services and making them available to our partners. And when you think about a partner on MSP, he's no longer just the asset heavy like OVH, but he's also the asset like a DXE. So we're now opening up the aperture for anyone who wants to either build clouds, or use clouds to offer managed services on top. I love the fact that OVH has economics, efficiency, and the customer support with the full VMware value proposition. They've always been the leader in kind of vSphere hosting, now they're offering a full private cloud built on VMware and the managed services go with it. So it's really about that choice, which really uniquely makes a provider program so compelling to our end customers. >> We've heard choice a lot. We hear it, Stu, at every show. Customers need choice, companies like VMware, OVH needs to build for what the customers want, not what you guys all think is great. Another thing that we've heard a lot at this show is that the seamlessness of the message, starting with Pat Gelsinger's keynote on Monday morning with people saying, you know, the structure is in place. I also thought it was one that was very cohesive in terms of the messaging and how the technologies are working together. I'm curious to get your feedback on what are some of the things that you've heard around this show from your customers who need a choice or in multi-cloud environments for many reasons, right? Applications that kind of dictate which direction that needs to go in, or through acquisition and, you know, have multiple cloud solutions. How are they taking this message? Especially with what you're doing with OVH in the U.S. And be able to digest this so they can really figure out, alright, here's what I can do with my infrastructure so that my business succeeds, whether I'm a bank or I'm a hospital. Tell us about that. >> I can go first and then Russ can add. So I think one of the things we've done a really good job this time is clarifying the message. I'm hoping, to the market, we're now becoming a very relevant and strategic platform that spans beyond the traditional VMware data center and hybrid cloud. So the first message is, you know, VMware is providing you the solutions while you're building on VMware or you're building on native clouds. And that CloudHealth acquisition is a good indication of VMware's commitment to kind of pure native public cloud. The second I would say is hybrid and this kind of consistent environment for runtime, if you will, and this hybrid control plane that give people a sense that I will lift and shift my workload first to an OVH and then transform leveraging the power of the public cloud. So it's become very pleasing to say, look, I don't need to change for changes sake, I can move and get economics off a public cloud, a dedicator, or even a pure multi-tenant. But then I can now refactor using public cloud services. So the power of VMware is giving them the flexibility to start a leverage cloud without having to make an upfront investment just for change sake, but more for the business transformation they're trying to drive, right? >> Yeah and so, what we've seen from the OVH side is really coming here and looking at all the partners. So we have Veam for backup, we can no offer Zerto for disaster recovery. Obviously, the VMware partnership we just launched earlier in the week which David Wigglesworth, our chief revenues officer was on talking about our partnership strategy and we have an amazing opportunity to bring partners in. FusionStorm is one of those partners, IT services. So OVH Cloud, we don't compete with our partners, true infrastructure partner with they can leverage our 28 data centers and our 15 terabytes of network and no charges for ingress. So what we're seeing here, our customers are coming and saying, hey, I just used you for DR but I'd like to actually take my on-prem full production system and bring it to the cloud now. So the customer's were migrating. There's more comfort going to the cloud, there's more understanding of the partnership ecosystem, and now instead of just saying, oh, we're going to just put DR or backup, we're going to come and we're going to migrate our entire production system because we've tried it out, our foot's been in the water, and now we're going all-in. So that's exciting and talking to all the customers this week, I love it. It's so exciting to talk to our customers that have migrated to OVH Cloud in the U.S. and now they want to bring over those production workloads. That's where it's really kind of that multi-cloud and I think VMware's been a huge asset to the cloud market in their strategy and a great partner. >> Getting that validation from your customers, the momentum that OVH is carrying is working. You've done a lot of education, especially in the last year. They're getting it and you're seeing your technologies and your partnership validating what it is that they're business needs. >> It's disheartening almost that the technology is in place now. We had to migrate from the vCloud Air into the OVH data center. Those tools, those best practices, those skills now are available to the end customer. So the compelling value here is, you want to take the entire data center and move it to OVH, we know how to do it. We have the tools, the people, the skills. And so just that kind of reference, the ability to say I'm not the first one to do it. It's been done before. That confidence is building in their business now. >> We had the opportunity, I mean, I don't want to say that there was a bleeding edge, but we were on a bleeding edge of HCX and it's working seamlessly now. >> Hybrid Cloud Exchange. >> The extension to bring, without any downtime, from on-prem to over to the cloud with OVH Cloud, or from the vCloud Air cloud over to ours. So it's working and the customer's are super excited, they get that trust. They go back to their management team and say, hey, now it's time to go more. I can go to the cloud and the cost efficiency, the savings, the redundancy of the network and the power, and not all this capex. That's why they're all moving to the cloud now. >> Final thing, you've talked about some good high level things. Any specific customer examples? I know you might not be able to mention names, but, you know, Vertical, or things like that as to how businesses are helping to transform themselves after they've done these sort of solutions. >> Yeah, sure, I mean first of all, it's all about the customer. So we, I can't mention any specific names, we will have some, we filmed some customer testimonials in the booth that we'll be announcing and maybe the next time we can bring customers up here to talk about it. Whether it's really education or high-tech, especially on a high-tech, the tech guys love OVH, right? They really love it. But from an infrastructure provider, people that are looking to lift and shift their existing applications without having to rewrite their applications for a public cloud, that's where OVH really comes into play. I've got all of these systems. I've got VMware on-prem, I need to move it but I don't want to rebuild it. So that's where we see the excitement of, of course I'm going to build some new stuff in the cloud, but how do I take all of my thousands of applications that we have, that we're never going to refactor and just move it over to the cloud to have that security. That's where I think customers are saying, wow, I can't actually do more in the cloud than I thought I could. >> For me, I think, I just walked out of a customer meeting, so I won't name them but just kind of give you a sense of what they're doing. They have four clouds, they believe they have monolithic applications, they don't want to be locked in to a particular cloud, so you're hearing the consistent view is, we're trying to figure out how do we change our development practices. You know, how do we leverage container, whether it's PKS, whether it's payloads. What's my development methodology? How do I make sure that deployment gives me a choice of running across clouds? How should I setup my IT operations to operate in the cloud? So consistency, portability, how do I manage the complexity of running on multiple clouds? What's my cost profile and how do I do it effective? So those are the kinds of questions we're getting. They're starting to look to VMware as a trusted advisor, that safe choice, as we talked about, to say, you know, one thing I can bet on is if I bet on VMware technology, it runs on more clouds than I can, you know, when I need them. It is portable, I can take a workload that traditionally I'd run on different hardware, now we run it on different clouds. So we're seeing a tremendous momentum around this notion of VMware's kind of the pathway or the hybrid control plane that we can bet on. And then partners like OVH, etc. But I have this destination that's safe, that's secure, that's consistent with what they're running today. So pretty exciting in terms of how customers kind of take in the message and start to put it into their strategy as they go forward. >> One more thing I'd like to understand, you talked about the tremendous capabilities that OVH and VMware have together with vCloud Air. You can enable customers to do a lot. To transform IT, to facilitate digital transformation. They're comfortable with this. But one of the things that that absolutely requires is cultural transformation. I'd love to get your final thoughts on how is OVH and VMware together helping your customers to understand and really impact the cultural changes that are need to take advantage, full advantage of the technology? >> That's a great question. Go ahead. >> On our side, what we try to do is, we as a company are going through the same transformation. We're a perpetual company becoming a services company. So the lessons learned, I spent some time where I-CIO actually talks about how we're operating our internal cloud. We're talking about the best practices of how we're moving to a service first mentality. How we're creating a CICD development mentality and practices. How are we leveraging public clouds and how are we managing cost? So those internal lessons learned, we're starting to make available to our customers and our partners. We're also packaging some of the products that we make available to VCP, our provider program. So the products that we're building up much more suited to run a services organization, which when we started five years ago at vCloud Air, we took enterprise products and tried to force fit them, now we're much more delivering our own service, eating our own dog food, if you will, have to incorporate that capability into our platform. So it's a combination of product improvement, best practices and lessons learned that we're making available to the market. >> I can talk from specific example. Acquiring vCloud Air, a great customer base, and all of the personnel from VMware in vCloud Air to come over. So not only was it cultural from a customers perspective, but also from an employee perspective. You build culture on trust. So what's interesting is that our employees and our customers that were over in Europe, in our U.K data centers and our German data centers, they're growing much quicker than the ones over in the U.S. The U.S. after a year of working with us and seeing that, hey, we say we're going to do this and now we're actually doing it, and I've migrated and that was really easy, and I can point and click and actually expand my compute and my storage and add more hosts in a matter of minutes. That builds trust, that has a great culture, and that spreads. So, from an education perspective, we have a lot of higher education customers, and now they're like, I'm going to go talk to this school and this school, and that word of mouth is golden. >> That validation of, we've been in your shoes, VMware has been in our shoes, they've done it successfully. Guys, I wish we had more time, but thanks so much for helping Stu and I wrap up the day on this set. It's great to talk to you both. I think it might be fair to say that we'll probably see you at the next VMworld on day three around the same time. >> Yeah, perfect! - Hopefully earlier. >> Maybe. Ajay, Russ, thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. - Thank you so much, Lisa. >> For my co-host, Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of VMworld 2018. Stick around, we'll be back to wrap up the show. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone, we are wrapping up three big days of the CUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante and Jeffrick. It has been such fun co-hosting with you both. It's always a ghast to be with you so three days, what have we learned? We've learned we're making the world of work work better for people. Beyond that what do you think? >> New branding you know there which I think underscores ServiceNow's desire to get into the C-Suite. Become a strategic partner. Some of the things we heard this week, platform of platforms. The next great enterprise software company is what they aspire to, just from a financial standpoint. This company literally wants to be a hundred billion dollar valuation company. I think they got a reasonable shot at doing that. They're well on their way to four billion dollars in revenue. It's hard to be a software company and hit a billion. You know the number of companies who get there ar very limited and they are the latest. We're also seeing many products, one platform and platforms in this day and age beat products. Cloud has been a huge tailwind for ServiceNow. We've seen the SaaSification of industries and now we're seeing significant execution on the original vision at penetration into deeply into these accounts. And I got to say when you come to events like this and talk to customers. There's amazing enthusiasm as much of if not more than any show that we do. I mean I really got, what's your take? >> We go to so many shows and it's not hard to figure out the health of a show. Right you walk around the floor, what's the energy, how many people are there? What's the ecosystem I mean, even now as I look around we're at the very end of the third day and there is action at most of the booths still. So it's a super healthy ecosystem. I think it grew another 4,000 people from this year of the year of year growth. So it's clearly on the rise. SaaS is a big thing, I think it's really interesting play and the kind of simple workflow. Not as much conversation really about the no code and the low code that we've heard in the past. Maybe they're past that but certainly a lot of conversation about the vertical stack applications that they're building and I think at the end of the day. We talked about this before, it's competition for your screen. You know what is it that you work in everyday. Right if you use, I don't care what application. SalesForce or any SaaS application which we all have a lot of on our desktop today. If you use it as a reporting tool it's a pain. It's double entry, it's not good. But what is the tool that you execute your business on everyday? And that's really a smart strategy for them to go after that. The other thing that I just think is ripe and we talked about a little bit. I don't know if they're down playing it because they're not where they want to be at or they're just downplaying it but the opportunity for machine learning and artificial intelligence to more efficiently impact workflows with the data from the workflow is a huge opportunity. So what was a bunch of workflows and approvals and this and that should all get, most of it should just get knocked out via AI over a short period of time. So I think they're in a good spot and then the other thing which we hear over and over. You know Frank Slootman IT our homies I still love that line. But as has been repeated IT is everywhere so what a great way to get into HR. To get into legal, to get into facilities management, to get into these other things. Where like hey this is a really cool efficient little tool can I build a nice app for my business? So seemed to be executing on that strategy. >> Yeah CJ just said IT will always be at our core. Rebecca the keynote was interesting. It got mixed reviews and I think part of that is they're struggling we heard tat from some of our guests. There's a hybrid audience now. You got the IT homies, you got the DevOps crowd and then you got the business leaders and so the keynote on day one was really reaching an audience. Largely outside of the core audience. You know I think day two and day three were much more geared toward that direct hit. Now I guess that's not a bad thing. >> No and I think that I mean as you noted it's a hybrid audience so you're trying to reach and touch and inspire and motivate a lot of different partners, customers, analysts. People who are looking at your business in a critical way. The first day John Donahoe it struck me as very sort of aspirational. Really talking about what is our purpose, what do we do as an organization. What are our values, what problems are we trying to solve here and I think that that laying out there in the way that he did was effective because it really did bring it back to, here's what we're about. >> Yeah the other thing I learned is succession has been very successful. Frank Slootman stepped down last year as CEO. He's maintained his chairman title, he's now stepped down as chairman. Fred kind of you know went away for a little while. Fred's back now as chairman. John Donahoe came in. People don't really put much emphasis on this but Fred Luddy was the chief product officer. Dan McGee was the COO, CJ Desai took over for both of them. He said on the CUBE. You know you texted me, you got big shoes to fill. He said I kept that just to remind me and he seems to have just picked up right where those guys left off. You know Pat Casey I think is understated and vital to the culture of this company. You know Jeff you see that, he's like a mini Fred you know and I think that's critical to maintain that cultural foundation. >> But as we said you know going the way that Pat talked about kind of just bifurcation in the keynote and the audiences in the building and out of the building. Which I've never heard before kind of an interesting way to cut it. The people that are here are their very passionate community and they're all here and they're adding 4,000 every single year. The people that are outside of the building maybe don't know as much about it and really maybe that aspirational kind of messaging touched them a little bit more cause they're not into the nitty gritty. It's really interesting too just cause this week is such a busy week in technology. The competition for attention, eyeballs and time. I was struck this morning going through some of our older stuff where Fred would always say. You know I'm so thankful that people will take the time to spend it with us this week. And when people had choices to go to Google IO, Microsoft build, of course we're at Nutanix next, Red Hat Summit I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of other ones. >> Busy week. >> The fact that people are here for three days of conference again they're still here is a pretty good statement in terms of the commitment of their community. >> Now the other thing I want to mention is four years ago Jeff was I think might have been five years ago. We said on the CUBE this company's on a collision course with SalesForce and you can really start to see it take shape. Of the customer service management piece. We know that SalesForce really isn't designed for CSM. Customer Service Management. But he talked about it so they are on a collision course there. They've hired a bunch of people from SalesForce. SalesForce is not going to rollover you know they're going to fight hard for that hard, Oracle's going to fight hard for that. So software companies believe that they should get their fair share of the spend. As long as that spend is a 100%. That's the mentality of a software company. Especially those run by Marc Benioff and Larry Ellis and so it's going to be really interesting to see how these guys evolve. They're going to start bumping into people. This guy's got pretty sharp elbows though. >> Yeah and I think the customer relation is very different. We were at PagerDuty Summit last right talked to Nick Meta who just got nominated for entrepreneur of the year I think for Ink from GainSight and he really talked about what does a customer management verses opportunity management. Once you have the customer and you've managed that sale and you've made that sale. That's really were SalesForce has strived in and that's we use it for in our own company but once you're in the customer. Like say you're in IBM or you're in Boeing. How do you actually manage your relationship in Boeing cause it's not Boeing and your sales person. There's many many many relationships, there's many many many activities, there's somewhere you're winning, somewhere you're losing. Somewhere you're new, somewhere you're old and so the opportunity there is way beyond simply managing you know a lead to an opportunity to a closed sale. That' just the very beginning of a process and actually having a relationship with the customer. >> The other thing is so you can, one of the measurements of progress in 2013 this company 95% of its business was in IT. Their core ITSM, change management, help desk etc. Today that number's down to about two thirds so a third of the business is outside of IT. We're talking about multi-hundreds of millions of dollars. So ITOM, HR, the security practice. They're taking these applications and they're becoming multi-hundred million dollar businesses. You know some of them aren't there yet but they're you know north of 50, 75 we're taking about hundreds of customers. Higher average price, average contract values. You know they don't broadcast that here but you know you look at peel back the numbers and you can see just tremendous financial story. The renewal rates are really really high. You know in the mid 90s, high 90s which is unheard of and so I think this company is going to be the next great enterprise software company and their focus on the user experience I think is important because if you think about the great enterprise software companies. SalesForce, Oracle, SAP, maybe put IBM in there because they sort of acquired their way to it. But those three, they're not the greatest user experiences in the world. They're working on the UI but they're, you know Oracle, we use Oracle. It's clunky, it's powerful. >> They're solving such different problems. Right when those companies came up they were solving a very different problem. Oracle on their relational database side. Very different problem. You know ARP was so revolutionary when SAP came out and I still just think it's so funny that we get these massive gains of efficiency. We had it in the ARP days and now we're getting it again. So they're coming at it from a very different angle. That they're fortunate that there are more modern architecture, there are more modern UI. You know unfortunately if you're legacy you're kind of stuck in your historical. >> In your old ways right? >> Paradigm. >> So the go to market gets more complicated as they start selling to all these other divisions. You're seeing overlay, sales forces you know it's going to be interesting. IBM just consolidated it's big six shows into one. You wonder what's going to happen with this. Are they going to have to create you know mini Knowledges for all these different lines of business. We'll see how that evolves. You think with the one platform maybe they keep it all together. I hope they don't lose that core. You think of VM world, rigt there's still a core technical audience and I think that brings a lot of the energy and credibility to a show like this. >> They still do have some little regional shows and there's a couple different kind of series that they're getting out because as we know. Once you get, well just different right. AWS reinvents over $40,000 last year. Oracle runs it I don't even know what Oracle runs. A 65,000, 75,000. SalesForce hundred thousand but they kind of cheat. They give away lot of tickets but it is hard to keep that community together. You know we've had a number of people come up to us while we're off air to say hi, that we've had on before. The company's growing, things are changing, new leadership so to maintain that culture I think that's why Pat is so important and the key is that connection to the past and that connection to Fred. That kind of carried forward. >> The other thing we have to mention is the ecosystem when we first started covering ServiceNow Knowledge it was you know fruition partners, cloud Sherpas I mean it. Who are these guys and now you see the acquisitions, it's EY is here, Deloitte is here, Accenture is here. >> Got Fruition. >> PWC you see Unisys is here. I mean big name companies, Capgemini, KPMG with big install bases. Strong relationships it's why you see the sales guys at ServiceNow bellying up to these companies because they know it's going to drive more business for them. So pretty impressive story I mean it's hard to be critical of these guys, your price is too high. Okay I mean alright. But the value's there so people are lining up so. >> Yeah I mean it's a smoking hot company as you said. What do they needed to do next? What do you need to see from them next? >> Well I mean the thing is they laid out the roadmap. You know they announced twice a year at different cities wit each a letter of the alphabet. They got to execute on that. I mean this is one of those companies that's theirs to lose. It really is, they got the energy. They got to retain the talent, attract new talent, the street's certainly buying their story. Their free cash flow is growing faster than their revenue which is really impressive. They're extremely well run company. Their CFO is a rockstar stud behind the scenes. I mean they got studs in development, they got a great CEO they got a great CFO. Really strong chief product officer, really strong general managers who've got incredible depth in expertise. I mean it's theirs to lose, I mean they really just have to keep executing on that roadmap keeping their customer focus and you know hoping that there's not some external factor that blows everything up. >> Yeah good point, good point. What about the messaging? We've heard as you said, it's new branding so it's making the world of work work better, there's this focus on the user experience. The idea that the CIO is no longer just so myopic in his or her portfolio. Really has to think much more broadly about the business. A real business leader, I mean is this. Are you hearing this at other conferences too? Is it jiving with the other? >> You know everyone talks about the new way to work, the new to work, the new way to work and the consumers they sort of IT and you know all the millennials that want to operate everything on their phone. That's all fine and dandy. Again at the end of the day, where do people work? Because again you're competing everyone has, excuse me many many applications unfortunately that we have to run to get our day job done and so if you can be the one that people use as the primary way that they get work done. That's the goal... >> Rebecca: That's where the money is. >> That's the end game right. >> Well I owe that so the messaging to me is interesting because IT practitioners as a community are some of the most under appreciated. You know overworked and they're only here from the business when things go bad. For decades we've seen this the thing that struck me at ServiceNow Knowledge 13 when we first came here was wow. These IT people ar pumped. You know you walk around a show the IT like this, they're kind of dragging their feet, heads down and the ServiceNow customers are excited. They're leading innovation in their companies. They're developing new applications on these platforms. It's a persona that I think is being reborn and it sound exciting to see. >> It's funny you bring up the old chest because before it was a lot about just letting IT excuse me, do their work with a little bit more creativity. Better tools, build their own store, build an IT services Amazon likened store. We're not hearing any of that anymore. >> Do more with less, squeeze, squeeze. >> If we're part of delivering value as we've talked about with the banking application and link from MoonsStar you know now these people are intimately involved with the forward facing edge of the company. So it's not talking about we'll have a cool service store. I remember like 2014 that was like a big theme. We're not hearing that anymore, we've moved way beyond that in terms of being a strategic partner in the business. Which we here over and over but these are you know people that header now the strategic partner for the business. >> Okay customers have to make bets and they're making bets on ServiceNow. They've obviously made a bunch of bets on Oracle. Increasingly they're making bets on Amazon. You know we're seeing that a lot. They've made big bets on VM ware, obviously big bets on SAP so CIOs they go to shows like this to make sure that they made the right bet and they're not missing some blind spots. To talk to their peers but you can see that their laying the chips on the table. I guess pun intended, I mean they're paying off. >> That's great, that's a great note to end on I think. So again a pleasure co-hosting with both of you. It's been a lot of fun, it's been a lot of hard work but a lot of fun too. >> Thank you Rebecca and so the CUBE season Jeff. I got to shout out to you and the team. I mean you guys, it's like so busy right now. >> I thought you were going to ask if we were going next. I was going to say oh my god. >> Next week I know I'm in Chicago at VMON. >> Right we have VMON, DON, we've got a couple of on the grounds. SAP Sapphire is coming up. >> Dave: Pure Accelerate. >> Pure Accelerate, OpenStack, we're going back to Vancouver. Haven't been there for a while. Informatica World, back down here in Las Vegas Pure Storage, San Francisco... >> We got the MIT's CTO conference coming up. We got Google Next. >> Women Transforming Technology. Just keep an eye on the website upcoming. We can't give it all straight but... >> The CUBE.net, SiliconAngle.com, WikiBon.com, bunch of free content.- you heard it here first. >> There you go. >> For Rebecca Knight and Jeffrick and Dave Vellante this has been the CUBE's coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. We will see you next time. >> Thanks everybody, bye bye.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCube's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18 here in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebacca Knight along with my co-host Dave Vellante, and we are theCube. We are the leader in live tech coverage. We're joined by Sean Caron. He is the principal architect of Linium, at Linium. Thanks so much for coming on theCube again, you're welcome back. >> My second time, and thank you very much for the opportunity. I've really been looking forward to it all week. >> Awesome, Good to have you back. >> We love to hear that. So tell us about Linium and what you do as principal architect. >> Sure, so we are a gold services and sales partner of ServiceNow. Been in the ServiceNow space for about nine years total. And we specialize in helping organizations do digital transformations. So they want to take the platform and really get maximum value from that and that's both a technology discussion, but it's also a organizational change discussion, and you know can be a process discussion. All those kind of things are things that we help our customers with. >> We've been talking a lot about the technology but the organizational change is really what fascinates me. Can you tell, can you just talk about a lot of the organizational change challenges that customers are facing, and they come to you. >> You've got it right. So we've been in this business for 18 years. We started out as a Peregrine partner and also HP, when HP acquired Peregrine, and we noticed that we would get specs from customers and we would nail it. It would be a perfect technical delivery and then six months later when you talk to the customer, they weren't using the product. They didn't get any value from the investment that they made. So we started to engineer a process and we do that around, you know we look at the structure. Where is this project going to land? What's the structure around it? Who supports it? What's your culture? Do you have a culture of dedication to accuracy or customer service? If you don't have those kind of things, we can help build those in your organization. And of course that also gets to helping you find talent, right. So if you need the right people, we can help with that process. Helping you define business best practice process for your organization. Those are all things we work with customers every day and frankly we don't do technology projects. We only do a project where we know when we deliver the technology that that structure will be there to catch it and get value from it. >> So you were recently acquired by Ness Digital Engineering, >> Correct >> Which is really an interesting name for a company. Tell us more about the motivation for that acquisition and how things have changed, and what the future looks like. >> So for the first 17 years of our business we were a privately held company and we grew organically, and we did a great job at that. I mean we became several hundred employees across the U.S. and a couple in AMIA, and a couple in Canada. But to really take the next step right, we saw, we had a vision of what we wanted to do, to take that next step was going to require an equity investment of some type. So we started probably about this time last year, talking to organizations. Ness was one of the first ones that we met and it became immediately apparent that they were a great fit for us. So they have about, well with us about 4,000 people across the world. They're not a billion dollar company right. So their culture is very similar to our culture. They do digital engineering projects, industrial scale, you know hard core grade digital engineering projects, and they tend to focus on platforms that are front of the business, so customer touching. They own the platform under Standard & Poor's right, so they built that. So Standard Poor's ratings, all that information flows in, they do the ratings based on that. That's something they built. PayPal, they do a lot of work in the payments industry. But they didn't really do much on the backend right. The operations that keep all the lights on and obviously that's a great fit for Linium, where we would come in with the ServiceNow platform and help them with that process. So that really worked out well. It was a great fit for us. >> So how do you guys compete? What's your difference relative to, you've been here a while in this ecosystem. It's started to get crowded. How do you, what's your secret sauce? How do you guys compete? >> So our goal is always to try and stay 12 months ahead of where ServiceNow is going. In the past couple of years, that really has been around user experience. Really designing experiences with the platform that are intuitive, that don't require a lot of training, that allow people to approach the platform and get value from it very quickly. Whether that's end users, or our customer's customers. Those kind of things, really, and that's in our DNA. That's a big part of what we do is design these experiences and do them in a way that really help our customers get value. I would say, you know looking forward, so the buzzword that we've heard around here this week is DevOps right, and we see, and one of the things that Ness does very well is DevOps engineering. I think next year will be the knowledge of DevOps. It will be what everybody's talkin' about. ServiceNow will have a lot more throw-weight in that space. So really that's where we're going. We're helping people get that continuous integration, continuous deployment process using ServiceNow as a foundation. >> CJ Desai laid out the roadmap in more detail than I had seen publicly anyway, and we were talking to him and he said, "Look the motivation really came from the ecosystem." You know obviously the customers as well, but the ecosystem as well, wanted better visibility on what was coming, because you guys have to plan for that. You're tryin' to fill white space. You're tryin' to fill a vacuum. So I wondered if you could talk about that. It's a two-edged coin though right? I mean, but having that visibility has to be a godsend. >> Right and we found that when we are some number of months ahead of ServiceNow, we work very well with them. We, you know obviously, like any large ServiceNow partner, we're very plugged in to where they're going. Their roadmap sets our direction and the kind of things that we can do. But it enables conversations, especially DevOps, and user experience too, enabled conversations at new levels within the organization and that's a big differentiator for us. >> But so, what I'm trying to understand is you guys have to make a call on where to put your investments and your resources, and you don't want to, you've said a couple of times, you're ahead of ServiceNow by, let's say N months, six months, 12 months, 9 months, whatever it is. You don't want to develop something and put too much into something that they're just going to replace in a few months. >> Right. >> Dave: So how do you keep that innovation engine going on your end? >> That right, so it takes a lot of research. We have a person whose dedicated job at our organization is Chief Innovation Officer. She spends her entire day talking to customers, hearing what buzzwords are in the industry, looking and talking to ServiceNow, looking at where they're going. So how can we be positioned when ServiceNow gets there 'cause to deliver services, that's not an instant on right. If the technology shows up tomorrow in the next release, to be able to deliver services for that, you have to start well in advance to actually be able to do that, to understand the process, and the structure, and what's required. >> I see, okay so by being ahead of ServiceNow, what you mean is you're going to develop capabilities that plug in to their release when it hits. >> So that we can deliver to what they have, >> Not things that are duplicative, but things that are, add value when it hits. >> Yeah, I mean ServiceNow comes out with, let's say automated testing. That's something they want to really, they want to get into the automated testing market. That's a discipline. You can't be instant on with that and if you want to have credibility with customers, you have to have trained people. You've got to be six months ahead to be able to step into that world and get value from the platform. >> So take the DevOps example that we heard Pat Casey talk about yesterday. So you guys are preparing for that now obviously. >> Yes. >> And how will you go about it? How will that change your customers world? If can take us through an example. >> So obviously DevOps is, you know it's the big accelerator. It's the idea of we're going to do what we've always done and we're going to do it in timeframes that are minutes or hours, as opposed to weeks, or months, or even years right, so it's a big ramp up. So understanding how to put that in play is a big deal. If you're a startup, alright so one of the themes of DevOps is the two pizza team right. You should never have teams bigger than you can feed with a couple of pizzas. If you're a startup and you already got a two pizza team it's easy to do DevOps. You build it into your culture and away you go. But our customers, you know many of our customers, one we were talkin' about here, talking to here at the show, 130 year old firm and they want to do DevOps. So what's that on-ramp? How do you figure that out? One of our new colleagues from Ness, who has been in the DevOps world for a while says, "You know, it's all about unlearning stuff." Because in order to move into this world, you got to unlearn that old world. >> Well right, it is a mindset. >> It is, it's a culture. >> So how, and one that will be very tricky for a 130 year old firm that maybe doesn't order pizzas that often (chuckling) for it's team. So how do you do that? I mean that's a challenge. >> We're working diligently on having a roadmap to onboard DevOps into existing organizations. The secret really tends to be, start with a NET new project and introduce DevOps into those kind of projects. Build one, build two, build three now you've got a culture of DevOps and you can start then to do some of the unlearning and the retrofitting right. But it's very difficult. You can't really take an existing projects and transform how they do their work. Which is what DevOps is all about. >> No, but in a lot of the companies that I've talked to that have, you know hundred plus year old companies that want to do DevOps right. A lot of times, and I wonder if this has been your experience, it's the Ops guys learning Dev, as opposed to the Dev guys learning Ops. I mean the Dev guys like, "Yeah, yeah we can do infrastructure as code, that's fine", but then you've got all these Ops guys runnin' around. So it's a urgency to retrain the Ops guys, who are eager to learn, most of 'em. The ones that aren't probably in trouble. >> Will do something else. >> So I often joke about OpsDev versus DevOps. What's your experience? >> So I think the big difference is Ops guys are trained from the day they take that job to, you know shun failure right. Failure of a system is a big problem. In DevOps it's going to happen. Not only is it going to happen but the best DevOps practitioners create failure. >> Break stuff (laughing) >> Yeah, you know Netflix kind of has this famous program called Chaos Monkey, when it runs running, turn stuff off right, and how do you respond to that. And that's a big leap culturally and structurally for the Ops guys to get over that. You know the idea is we break stuff, but we learn from that, and not only do I learn from that, but I spread that knowledge across the organization. And that's where ServiceNow steps in right, because they know when things are broken, 'cause they're tied to monitoring, and they got this great knowledge capability to hook up the information we learn from how that broke. So what better testing could we have done so that we could have avoided that break? Or if it's a enforced break, what could we have learned about how to respond to that more quickly? You know the classic example is when AWS lost their east availability center and Netflix kept tickin' because they had lost their east availability center through Chaos Monkey a half a dozen times. >> Right >> It was old hat, and everybody else kind of went dark right. So that idea, and enabling that with the ServiceNow platform is a great opportunity. We really see ServiceNow as the context, the engine with all the knowledge about when things happen, how to fix them, and how to record the knowledge that you learn. >> Give us an example of a company, I mean you're talking about simple, streamlined, intuitive tech, no-training required, so give us some examples of some of the most creative uses. >> I'll give you a great example. So, we have a center in Atlanta. We have some folks in Atlanta. And of course if your in Atlanta, you love Chick-fil-a, and maybe if you're anywhere else you love Chick-fil-a. And they had an issue, which was they have franchisees, and their franchises are different from McDonald's, where you might have one franchisee at McDonald's that owns 200 restaurants. They have a lot of power, market power, and they don't share information with any other franchisee, 'cause that's differentiating for them. Chick-fil-a doesn't do that. The maximum number of restaurants you can own as a Chick-fil-a franchisee I believe is three. It's a number like that. So their franchisees are incented to talk to each other and share information. "Hey I found a better way to clean the ice cream machine", or something like that or to fix a problem. So they were looking to build a portal that they could use to both answer questions from the organization to the franchisees, but allow the franchisees to talk to each other. That kind of a thing has to be zero training right, because the people who are on that might be store managers, but it could be, you know the teenager who runs the point of sale terminal and is havin' a problem with that, so it's really got to be intuitive. So we spent a lot of time with them. We actually, it was we brought one of our designers, so we have UI, UX designers, experience designers, and we were in the sales meeting, and we're having a discussion about what they need, and he's kind of heads down typin' on his computer. And they're kind of lookin' at him like, what's up with this guy right, he's not payin' attention. >> He's designing the interface. >> These guys pay attention to everything. He's lookin' at the logo as we're walkin' in, the colors that are on the wall, the way they talk about themselves. So about an hour into the meeting we got a pause and he just kind of picks his head up and goes, "You mean like this?" And turned his computer around and he had a prototype that he built in the meeting of this really easy to use process. >> Very cool. >> Sean: So that was our intro to Chick-fil-a. >> Your sales guy must'a hated that. (hosts laughing) >> No, no, it was, I'll tell you what, so it was competitive, we have multiple competitors, who were going for that business, when he turned that computer around, the sale was done. >> Dave: Boom. >> We were done, right. They looked at that and said, This is, you know it's not perfect clearly, but this is what we need. >> This is the kind of company we want to work with. >> Exactly, well and that, you know part of that is there are partners in the ecosystem who come in and say, "We can do anything. "Tell us what you want." We are much more consultative and we'll come in and be prescriptive and say this is what you should do, and it's a differentiator for us. It's something we do differently. >> Well Sean that's a great note to end on. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE again. >> It's been great, I really enjoyed my time. >> We'll look forward to having you back at Knowledge 19. >> Terrific, I will certainly be here. >> Great, I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18 in just a little bit. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back everyone, day two of the CUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow Knowledge 18. Here at the Venetian in Las Vegas Nevada, I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my cohost Dave Vellante. >> Dave: Still have my voice. >> You still have it yes okay well we'll see how you do tomorrow but you're still going strong. But I'm really excited about this panel we have Pharrel Howe she is a GM in IT service management, asset management, business management. Have I forgotten one? >> Nope. >> Rebecca: I got it all at ServiceNow. >> Dave: This week. >> Exactly, at ServiceNow. You run the biggest business for ServiceNow. >> Yes. >> Thanks for joining us Pharrel. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. >> So I want to talk about employee experience which is really. It's just the cornerstone of this conference but really ServiceNow's purpose. Why has it become so increasingly important in IT today? >> Okay well in IT really you saw it today in CJ's keynote. The era of great experience is here and in IT we've been really really great at managing productivity and managing cost and making sure we were running efficiently and that we still do that and do it really well. But now we have to also make sure not just our customers have a great experience but our employees do too. And companies that do that well have the competitive advantage. It's absolutely required that we're able to do that now and so you know ServiceNow's paving the way for great experiences on our platform. For customers and employees and we're excited to be leading the next era of great experience. >> So I don't want to minimize the accomplishments that ServiceNow has made because they're phenomenal. >> Pharrel: Alright I'm happy for you not to minimize them. >> But I want to say this, you have thrived. I mean when Fred Luddy developed the platform. You thrived in the sea of mediocrity and you drove a ship through that sea and just mopped up a lot of business. Awesome, congratulations and in this world we live in it's like now it's becoming table stakes. If you guys have pointed out our home lives we live with these consumer interfaces we expect that now so as a leader of ServiceNow's a largest business. How do you continue to push the innovation levier? We expect now so much more, how do you continue to differentiate. Because your competition has woken up, the world was waking up. How do you stay ahead? >> Well you saw, you know earlier today CJ talking again and we're going to, you'll continue to see this theme from us. It is all about the platform. We are a platform company and when we build and innovate, acquire and then innovate. It is all within the platform and that I our competitive advantage. So then every application that was in existence today or that we build in the future can take advantage of that innovation natively. It's all integrated and seamless and there's nobody else out there who is able to do that and deliver those experiences. And so that is going to continue to be our strategy moving forward. >> So let's double click on that a little bit. Maybe get some examples. So clearly there's a big emphasis on UX and design. I think you guys have made some investments in design firms. >> Pharrel: Significant. >> There's machine intelligence I'll call it, AI. You're infusing AI throughout the platform and those are just two examples. >> Yeah. >> Maybe talk about those and give us some others if there are them. >> Sure well you know in the IT keynote that I'm going to have this afternoon. It's all about the era of great experiences and taking the roles that are in IT. It will be about the fulfiller, the requester, the planner and the operator in IT and how we've taken to the road and gone and done user research out with our customers and we're building great experiences in the platform for those roles. You no longer is it going to stand for you to just use your best judgment and go and build product and hope everybody will come. You've got to get out there side by side with your customers. Truly understand the work that they're doing and then build that back into the product and iterate again and again and again. And so that's the direction we're going from a design standpoint to build those experiences. >> So let's unpack this era of great experiences something that's simple, easy, intuitive but what are we really talking abut here. How do you define a great experience? >> Yeah well let's take it from something that we can relate to, we're all requesters of services one way or another right? And me as an employee I need services from IT in order to do my job. The thing is the channels that we have today are not enough. Phone and email aren't going to cut it and a lot of times if I'm in the carpool line waiting to pick up my daughter and her friends from school. I and you know I'm trying to check in on the ticket status for a laptop that I need immediately and I happen to think of it right then. I'm not going to call IT, I'm not in front of the laptop. I need more channels on more devices anytime anywhere at my convenience not someone else's. And so that's the kind of stuff that were talking about. We can't, it can't just be good enough anymore it has to be prolific. >> I'm interested in how you're using and applying machine intelligence. It seems like you're trying to anticipate my needs, put things in front of me that I might. You know I might shorten my search time or might be relevant that I hadn't even though of. Is that the right way to be thinking about how you're using machine intelligence and second part of the question is. What ar you finding that machines can do better than humans and how do they compliment each other? Srt of a long question. >> Sure I love this question. That's okay love it. Okay so our initial approach to agent and to machine intelligence, artificial intelligence. All of that is to you heard CJ say it today. You'll here micro-moments are moments that matter and we're looking to inject intelligence right there. Right there, those are very very practical use cases. They're not a panacea. They are not the answer but they are an answer in a moment that critically matters and so a perfect example of how that would play out would be my example previously of checking in on my laptop. The virtual agent that we're bringing to the market in our London release is all conversation based. And so I can very quickly see what topics that agent can handle and I can you know immediately engage on what that looks like and get the confidence that I need back and forth engaging with the virtual agent in m convenience wherever I am. Whether I'm at work or I'm at home and so you know that is a moment that matters for me because it's not, it eliminates the mental overhead for me to keep track of the administration of just trying to do my job everyday. Now take the flip side of that. The person who's on the other side of that virtual agent or would have been had that virtual agent not be there. They are not having to answer those kind of questions. Is my laptop coming please just assure me. They're not answering questions and so you know maybe that's not necessarily deflecting it an incident. It could be, but it's also reducing the administrivia that's happening when, and so it's cutting down the time it takes to resolve incidents and it's reducing friction and frustration. Between fulfillers and requesters of service ad so that's how we're looking at it. In those moments that matter and then as technology evolves and gets stronger. There may be bigger and larger use cases. >> And the machine verses human thing. I hate to say it that way but things the machines are doing. You're seeing categorization obviously is one at scale. Other things, I mean how do you see that evolving. What are the things that increasingly machine are going to do that humans can't do as well. >> Well I would say a use case besides maybe the virtual agent and those conversation based topics which really are just guided flows for conversation. Another thing might be being able to you know if there's just so much data that would take me a while. Or I would need a business analyst to maybe go and look for insights. That's something that machines can do and that's not replacing humans that's scaling our ability to act. And so that I think is the next foray to really move into and we'll start poking in different areas of insights as well and the moments that matter for work getting done in the enterprise as well. >> Because that is really what we're trying to do is help people get their work done. >> Pharrel: Yes. >> Quicker. >> Pharrel: And more easily. And when we talk about employee experience it's simply that. Please just let me get my work done and let me have some choice. I'm going to have a personal tool chain. Don't force me to use you know ServiceNow, please don't force me to use your messaging client. Our connect chat if I want to Microsoft Teams or Slack let me do that and let me keep that UI. So we're really when we talk about employee experiences it's a very broad arena there and its a great partnership between IT and all the other lines of business to deliver what employee experience is going to look like. >> And you know Rebecca, we talked about this yesterday. John Donahoe took on the machine replacing humans and was very transparent. The example I would use is search. When IDC we had a big library. We had like three or four librarians. They're not there anymore but nobody is saying oh wow. Search I mean search is a machine. It made our lives better, it created new opportunities. I think that's a good example, a small one but one where. I'm an optimist even though things are getting complex. >> Pharrel: Me too, absolutely an optimist on that and so for example with our virtual agent. Go do a search on LinkedIn and you will find for conversation designer. There are new jobs being created to be able to support this kind of technology. You know, jobs are evolving not going away. >> So speaking of jobs. You have been a very successful leader in a high growth organization. >> Thanks. >> I think on your Twitter it says I'm on a rocket ship ride of a lifetime. >> Pharrel: I am, I'm here to tell you. >> I'd love to hear what your advice is for other leaders who are trying to affect transformational change in their IT organizations. >> Alright I think whether it's personal change for yourself, you're trying to evolve or you need to evolve your organization. The first thing you need to do is check your assumptions. You know the older we get and the more we're barraged by noise we think we know. Make sure that you're really clear on and have some self reflection but also go and check that with people around you and get some clarity around alright is this really the reality. What's our reality that we're trying to transform? And when you're talking about transformation it doesn't necessarily happen overnight. It can happen overnight and that's called disruption but transformation that you are initiating. Give yourself a little bit of breathing room. You got to know that this is a marathon and you cannot be doing it at a sprint pace. You will burn out so keep your eye on the horizon and what you're trying to accomplish and just get started. Don't sit there and wait and try to have the perfect plan. You're going to attack your way through it, it's going to change anyway. Just get started. >> The rapid iteration we were hearing about that's so important. >> Yeah absolutely DevOps and you know personal digital transformation. You got it. >> I also want to talk to you about women. There is a dearth of women leaders in technology. You are one of them, what are you doing personally to promote diversity and inclusion at ServiceNow and then what is the company doing and finally what should the tech industry be doing to face this challenge head on? >> Yeah you know my take on it is, it's all about belonging and I got that word from Pat Waters. So diversity, inclusion and belonging. That's something that she's championing and we are so fortunate to have her as our chief talent officer. Prior to having that word I was just really focused on connection. You know really engaging just with people and trying to understand where they're coming from and really making sure that you're practicing active listening. That has been like the key for my success I will say throughout my career. Is just being able to constantly reflect back what I'm hearing. One to make sure I didn't put any filters on it obviously and then two people want to feel heard and so you know whenever I get into the conversation around women in tech. Yes there are some very real facts, fact based, data based challenges ahead of us but where I choose to put my focus is a much broader conversation that includes you know everyone. And really just focusing a lot more on connection and belonging over all makes a huge difference. >> What you're saying is really resonating because I mean that's what we keep hearing is happening but perpetuates the old boys club is that oh I know this guy because we went to college together. Or some other kind of biases that you hold that it's just oh he's like me. I want to promote him and bring him along and there are fewer women in positions of power who they can bring up the people that they see are like them. So I think that's another problem too is that you have to... >> Yeah that goes back to a really great HR practice which is you cannot just reach deep into your network every time you get in trouble. Rely on a great HR standard practice that says no you know we need to go out there and there's great talent out there that you just didn't even think of. So you know when you're going back to, we talked about transformation earlier in this conversation. Check your self awareness, be clear about wait a minute. Do I really know right now what I need. I'm not sure let me broaden my perspective here and HR's been a great partner to be able to do that. >> So that's a great point because gender and race and sexual preference are part of that diversity and certainly other factors. But like a financial advisor when the portfolio gets over balanced in one area he or she has to rebalance that portfolio. And again it sounds formulaic but I think Pharrel your point is what you're looking for is to open up that network to a wider audience. >> Absolutely. >> And not just the good old boys network. >> I have a little bit of a bias here, you know my background. I'm an English major and I'm running the large business for ServiceNow. >> We need to open the diversity to English, it's a liberal arts background. >> I don't want kids these days to think that if they pick one path they're stuck in that path and their locked into certain jobs. It's not true, you can you just need, it's the way that you think, it's having critical thinking skills. Now listen, you're not going to go put me on the platform although I probably could. Go in and start coding, you're not going to rely on me to do that right away. I can learn it but allowing us, allowing yourself to start to believe. That hey wait a minute, you know the labels that I've grown up with and put on people. Maybe I can remove a couple and I love it when I'm surprised and are able to bring an employee on my time that I'm like ah it doesn't necessarily make sense on the paper but look at you. You're amazing. >> Well one of the things that supports that is digital. For years if you were in the financial services business or the manufacturing business or the automotive business. You were there for life but if you have digital skills you can traverse now much more easily. >> Yes absolutely. >> Kids today just have phenomenal opportunities. >> I know, I know it's great. I think it's so cool and I love making. I love opening tech a bit more to make it more accessible. More appealing, that there are so many different roads to come in and it's important that we get people who think differently, creative you know people who are good strong communicators. Who can bring clarity to a situation. We need all of that and that to me is the first step for diversity. >> And because that's the stuff that robots aren't very good at. Is the empathy, the creativity, that kind of broad thinking. >> That's right. >> Awesome way to bring it home. >> Found full circle. Pharrel thanks so much for coming on the program. What a fun and enlightening conversation. >> Oh my gosh, super fun. I really appreciate it. >> And you're speaking today at 1:30, good luck with that. >> And by the way we have a diversity and inclusion belonging lunch with Pat Waters and CJ Desai which will be at I think 12:30 as well so. >> Great plug, excellent. Thank you so much again. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante we will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge 18 hashtag know 18 just after this.

>> Announcer: Live, from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to ServiceNow Knowledge18 the Cube's live coverage. We are the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Jason Scott-Taggart. He is the head of Business Technology Support at WorldPay. He's in direct from London. So welcome, Jason, to the show. >> Thank you, it's good to be here. >> So first lay the scene for our viewers. Tell us a little bit about what WorldPay is and what you do. >> So WorldPay is the largest payments company in the world. So it's a hidden gem that not a lot of people know about. So recently we merged with Vantiv, which is huge in domestic US. And WorldPay is very large in the rest of the world. So a marriage made in heaven. We're what's technically known as a merchant acquirer, which is a fancy way of saying that we take credit card payments. And we do that for both online or in the store, putting your card in a machine. So billions of transactions a year. >> And what's your relationship with the banking infrastructure around the world? How does that all work? >> Sure, so the banks issue credit cards and your relationship as an individual is with the bank. So you pay your bills to the bank and have that transaction. We look after the merchants. So we're the ones that do the services for the, we quaintly call the merchants still, so for the shops and the traders, we have that relationship. And basically the transactions then go between the two. So individuals to the bank, bank to us, us to the merchants. And we just aggregate that because if you're, even if you're a large company like Costco or Google, you don't want to have to have a relationship with every one of the credit cards let alone every one of the banks. So we aggregate that. >> So tell us about your ServiceNow journey. When did you start using the platform? >> So ServiceNow, we're on our third year now I think with ServiceNow. And it's been explosive. It was a quite seamless transition. We were really pleased with the previous platform we were on, how we moved over. And we slowly added to it. We slowly turned on other modules, other functionality. And it's just become ingrained in our day-to-day IT operations. >> It was simpler because you had had other processes in place? You didn't have to rip and replace those processes and skill sets? >> We took it as an opportunity to do best-of-breed. So there were some things that we carried over. But we took the opportunity for a clean start as well. Even before a lot of the buzz here is back to basics and staying out of the box, and we did that for a lot of it, and that was quite refreshing, and it was quite cathartic in a way that we could make that change. But then there were some bits that weren't really well and were ingrained in our business process so we had to carry those over. But we found it easy to do a mixture of both. >> And you carried those over in the form of custom modifications? >> Some, not a lot. We tried to stay as much out of the box as possible. >> So how does that having some custom mods affect your ability to go to subsequent releases? >> I think it's fair to say that ServiceNow is one of the easier platforms to upgrade. I probably shouldn't say that. They should be doing more work to make it easier for me. (laughing) >> Dave: Do a better job of upgrades. >> But compared to some other platforms we have even Cloud ones, it's not the hardest. It's not the worst. However, we've tried to stay close to the box to make it even easier. We want to stay N plus one no more, and when you're coming out with a major upgrade twice a year, that means we've got to factor that into our road map. But we do. We make sure that we try and stay up to date. >> So where are you now? You're in, are you? >> We're in Jakarta. >> Jakarta, okay. >> Yeah. >> So you're pretty current. >> Yeah, only just though, so. >> Okay, but we heard a lot about Madrid today. >> Yeah. >> Which is Q119. And a lot about DevOps. So talk about, it was very good that the DevOps 101 that Pat Casey gave. I'll give my version of DevOps 101 if I can. (laughs) Back in the day, the developers would write some code, maybe on their laptop or whatever, they'd throw it over the fence to the ops guys, and say, here, deploy this. And the ops guys would go to deploy, and they say, ah, this thing doesn't meet up to our enterprise standards. It doesn't have the security and the governance. So they go in and they hack the code, invariably break it, and then they go to deploy it, and it doesn't work. And they go back to the developers and your code doesn't work. And the developers say, well it worked when I gave it to you. And you get this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. So DevOps consolidates that into a single programming environment. >> That's good, I appreciate this. >> Infrastructure is code. And so that's my version. Pat Casey gave a much more eloquent description, but what is DevOps to you guys and how are you applying it? >> So we've got two major competitive drivers in the market. One is scale. So we're the largest payments company in the world so we need to leverage that. We can operate in most countries of the world, take most currencies, so that's a scale thing that we try and leverage. Scale tends to lend itself more to waterfall kind of traditional projects. (laughs) The other competitive pressure that we face is from small fintech startups that are nibbling away at our ankles for niche products and new services or disrupting the whole way we do payments. Will there be banks tomorrow? Who knows. The whole way could be disrupted. That innovation lends itself more to a DevOps kind of, or at least an agile form of development. You want rapid prototyping, trying things, seeing what works. So one of the things we've been struggling with at WorldPay is how can we foster more of the DevOps whilst not endangering the traditional kind of waterfall that we need to do. The vast majority of our development is done agile, but hardly any of it is DevOps. And a lot of people confuse agile for being DevOps. And agile is just the dev part of it, it isn't the ops bit of it. So where's the ops in DevOps? What we did, you just outlined classic reasons why people might want to do that, and having a single team owning something all the way through the life cycle. What we've done is we've tried to separate out different layers and kinds of services to allow that to happen. So with scale, you have to have one level one. You have to have a front door for IT that everybody comes to. Whether you're a squidgy resource, a human needing to phone someone or your tin and wires, there's got a problem and alerting an event. So you have one front door. What you need to do is you need to try and have a high first-time fix. That's cheapest and that's most best experience for the end user. So we aim for 60, 70% of issues to just be killed at that front door. That's the aim. After that, we then put a lot of work and effort to make sure that we had a business-oriented, service-oriented CMDB. So we worked with the lines of business to describe WorldPay and what we do in a way that they understood and the IT understood, and then we translated that into a service management language in the CMDB. Once you go past that level one, the level one know they can't fix it, they know what's broken, or they're pretty certain what's broken, they will put it into the right service line. That level two is still run only. So we split, the dev and the run at that level two. You're aiming for 25% of things to stop there. That leaves only about 5% of things that would ever go wrong needing to go to a third line. That third line we refer to as technical services. So you've got business services in the middle of that level two, that the business would recognize and they consume or our merchants would. The technical services at the third line are the components. They're the building blocks that we use to make those business services. And those are where we start doing the DevOps. Another word for it is microservices. So microservices, we have components, sensors of excellence, in both infrastructure, so a virtualized platform, or applications. So a fraud module or a billing module, or a authorization module. And those teams, because they're only getting 5% of things coming through to them that are wrong, they can cope with being small teams that do both the dev and the ops. And that makes it feasible, and we're fostering that. And we're starting to get live services that are being supplied in that DevOps manner, and that means that that can grow as it succeeds or fail as it doesn't, and it's not endangering the huge machine that is the rest of the organization. >> So the huge machine, the core piece of your systems, you still apply waterfall, is that right? >> Jason: Yes. >> And then in the new stuff where you don't mind breaking things, you're applying agile and DevOps. >> Exactly. And that's what we're seeing is that that then what succeeds and what the ways of working or the particular needs that that microservices is addressing, if they're successful it feeds it, awards it, and they do more. So the teams that are going live with some of these microservices, if they put enough effort into making it resilient, doing the non-functional as well as the functional requirements, which is a DevOps thing as well, so you make something and you get it right first time, so it's not breaking all the time, they can then have spare cycles to go and do other sprints where they're building the next thing. And what we hope to see over time is that we will have a larger and larger proportion of the components that make those business services being supplied in the DevOps way. And that is also complementary with going to Cloud services 'cause they're just other building blocks. They're just components that you use to put together something. >> You saw Pat Casey and C. J. Desai, they showed a little leg today on Madrid. They basically developed a DevOps capability for their own purposes and they're going to release it in Madrid. The problem they're trying to solve if I understood it was you've got 500 DevOps tools out there and there's complexity, did that resonate with you? Is that something you'll adopt? Or are you comfortable with your DevOps tools? >> No we're keen and eager to adopt. Well, I'm an IT ops guy by trade. That's what I've been doing for the last 20, 30 years, but I'm not afraid of DevOps. I love DevOps. DevOps means faster delivery with more control. It's automated ITIL. And what the ServiceNow road map is giving me is a way that I can continue to be the air traffic control for IT. I want people to come to me and my team and say, where are we at? What's moving where? And if we get the hooks into ServiceNow into all of those DevOps tools, the names are up there, the Jenkins, the Chef, the Puppets, if we get the hooks in, then it expands more of the PMO work that we almost do as well. So instead of talking about just a single change ticket or a release that's happening here, we can go, that train in the safe framework or this, that sprint over there, they've got to this point. They're in testing. They're about to release this. Actually I can tell you the features that they're proposing will come with this. Because that's hooked in. So that's the dream. That's where we want to get. Because we want to facilitate more of this happening within our development community. >> So from a legacy talent standpoint, are you more DevOps or are you OpsDev? (laughs) >> Rebecca: Oh, I like that. >> Me personally I'm OpsDev. >> Well right, but I mean for your organization was it kind of retraining the ops guys to think more like devs or was it kind of jamming the ops piece into-- >> We've got challenged with both. And the real success that we've had so far has mainly been greenfield. We've set up teams from scratch with the purpose of testing out DevOps as a theory. And it's worked brilliantly. Now though, the bigger struggle is how do you get existing teams? We've got hundreds of developers in our own squad, so working on agile, but they do pure dev. They build it and they hand it over and then they're off, they're onto the next thing. How do we mix those teams? How do you get multi-disciplinary teams that have both the operational knowledge as well as the development? And that's a cultural thing as well as the tooling. Tooling helps. If you get nice tooling that makes it easier for them to operate in a particular way, that's a big important thing, but it's only half the battle. You've got to get people thinking in a slightly different way. And that's true of the ops people have got to think more of the life cycle. How do they feed back what's working and what's not into the next development cycle. And the development people have got to think about what happens once they let it go. And they've got skin in the game now. It's going to come back and bite them. If they didn't do it well, if they didn't put the dashboards for the support people to see how well it's working, then the support people are going to be banging on their door to get it. So it's a cultural thing as well. >> It's a cultural thing. >> So I'm going to ask you a business question. You referred a little bit to disruption before. You talked about banks and the future of banks. Do you think, and you're very tied into the banks, obviously, do you think, and I wonder if this is a discussion inside the organization that banks, traditional banks will lose control of today's payment systems? >> Well, arguably they're not fully in control of it today anyway. (laughs) And so that's not to mean that they're not in control of what they are to do, but they don't own the payment process end-to-end. >> But they own the consumer. >> They own the consumer relationship, yeah. And that's going to be disrupted in the same way the way that we take payments at the other end of the life cycle is disrupted as well. Contactless, block chain, these kind of things mean that it's not going to be the same. However, you're not going to get rid of large organizations overnight. Because what is also increasing day-by-day, is regulation, security requirements. You want to know that your card's going to be safe. You don't want, if you're going to use Apple Pay, or a new contactless technology, you're only going to do that if you know there's no danger of you losing money by doing it. To have that certainty and to meet the regulators' requirements you need organizations like WorldPay looking after the merchants' interests, you need organizations like banks looking after the individual's interests. So I think, unfortunately, it's not as sexy an answer, but I'm afraid that they're not going to disappear overnight. They're adding valuable service. >> A lot of barriers to entry to those Fintech startups that are nibbling at your ankle. >> However though, it's changed dramatically in the last five years, 10 years, so what on earth it's going to look like in the next five or 10 years, bringing it back, that's why I think innovation is so important. We need to be trying to stay ahead of the curve. We need to meet the needs of our merchants so that they can get as many transactions as possible successfully. And we need to do that at the lowest cost possible. So that's all about innovation. Innovation is hard to do top-down. You've got to find ways of fostering it bottom-up. We have have great leadership top-down. This is where we're going. But actually the way that we're going to get there is down to the troops. It's down to the people on the coal face, so. >> When did you buy your first Bitcoin? >> My first Bitcoin? I bought Bitcoin about four years ago. >> Awesome. >> So yeah, I've done all right. It's paid for a holiday. >> There you go. (laughing) That's good for you. That's great. >> Well, Jason, thanks so much for coming on the show. >> Jason: Thank you. >> It's great talking to you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18 just after this. (upbeat music)

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering service now knowledge 2018 brought to you by service now welcome back to the cubes live coverage of service now knowledge 18 here and Las Vegas Nevada I'm your host - Rebecca night along with my co-host Dave Volante we are joined by dr. Mateus Egelhoff he is the program director at Siemens AG thanks so much for coming on the problem yes great to see you again my friend veteran these two go way back they have a bromance brewing so Mateus at Siemens the now platform is really a key pillar of your digital transformation why is service integration so so it's such an important element of your vision of your strategy because service integration is really the place to be in the former days we concentrated to manage one service one provider but if you really want to integrate and be responsible end-to-end you really have to own the whole chain from the demand side to the supply side so you really have to span the whole value chain from the customer to the provider and back from the provider to the customer that's why it is so important to play the integrator role because if you own that whole value chain end-to-end you can optimize the value chain and also do some dramatic changes in that value change to kick out some of the providers that do not really add high value or you can optimize costs by combining some of the steps and that's why service integration is so key because then you have the whole end-to-end view and you gain the whole inside of that value chain and also the net the next topic I want to add is the typical service management topic is also changing over time because what to do with for example Microsoft Exchange Online you don't have to do much management on that one because that is used by millions of users so what to do actually and that's why it comes more important to have the overall view of the whole venue changer what if I could ask you as a seasoned ServiceNow practitioner you've seen a lot we were talking just kind of joking about sometimes tech company marketing is ahead of you know what they I can actually do service now obviously tremendous platform that makes it sound easy but it takes a lot of work to get there but once you get there you get a flywheel effect and you can add more and more because of the platform so talk a little bit about kind of where you started and how long it really took you to get to a point where you could really start driving major value for your organization so we we started our ServiceNow journey in January 2014 so roughly four years ago yeah and we started with the typical incident problem change service request portion but my goal was from the beginning to really have a high degree of automation and integration in that platform that's why we we set up the platform already in the integrated way of having not single processes single databases but rather having single source of record in the system and when we started of course we thought hey it's a great technology and it is a great technology it's a excellent tool but the challenge is not setting up the tool it is as Sean Donahoe said it's the change in the organization because by implementing such a huge tool with one process having it completely across all organizations in 149 countries with three hundred seventy seven thousand employees this is a scale where you need to have a focus on the change topic that they are really applying the process is because otherwise it's not of usage and this had a big impact on how we are providing the services because ServiceNow is more or less the window where it gets obvious how your services are looking like so it's not only about setting up ServiceNow you have to change the processes you have to change the organization you might simplify also the services they are quite a little bit too complicated to be handled in the portal and all that work has to be done in parallel and I always use the phrase there the dark side is coming up of an organization and I'm pretty sure each organization has a dark side of legacy system gaps in the process steps the data is not correct the data is not validated it is not one scene DP and all that stuff has to be pulled away connected otherwise you don't have the end-to-end chain you don't have the degree of automation that you want to leverage and this roughly took us two and a half years and and you knew that going in with ServiceNow kind of transparent or helpful in that or was it just gonna drop off the software and give us a call if you need help exactly we didn't you because otherwise we would have not started all those challenges and therefore ServiceNow was really helpful because there is out-of-the-box functionality that you can kick-start however if you want to leverage ServiceNow in that environment the out of box functionality is nice and a good starting point but you have to add some of the functionality like the integration layer is not there like data analytics not there yet so you have to add some of the topics but therefore it is good that ServiceNow was there that that's why we also procured licenses but on the other hand we engaged also professional services because we also wanted to make ServiceNow responsible for the implementation that this is really a lighthouse project also for ServiceNow and of course for us so it was a win-win so Evans now learned a lot and it was good to have them onboard and you're able to show quick enough value to get credibility in the organization to really fulfill your vision exactly so what we basically did we set up a road map based on savings because it's always easy to introduce a new tool a new portal a new process whatever always nice but when it comes to shutting down existing ones this is the difficult and nasty personnel but that's why I made a road map of clearly showing hey now we can shut down this portal now we can shut down this legacy tool and based on that the savings kicked in and the people really saw hey it works hey we really can shut down and get rid of some of the legacy dark side topic and then typically to a platform then the platform momentum starts where everybody wants to get on hey I have an additional provider I have initiative process I have additional services hey this country also wants to set em then the platform starts to grow and gain some momentum so that everybody gets up and this is also challenging then regarding the release how to handle all those demands I want to talk about data and because we just heard CJ Desai up there on the main stage preaching one thing but I know before the cameras are rolling yours you were telling us that you're actually doing a lot with the data that you're collecting so so talk about stop what it is you're doing it's because the collecting the data is the easy part in a lot of ways it's then figuring out okay what is the data telling us and then what do we do about it exactly so CJ in this main keynote mentioned that is not a good idea to pull out all the data outside of ServiceNow I'm agreeing but unfortunately only in two years or three years time when the intelligence is in service now that's why Siemens has decided to pull out really on a daily basis all the data from ServiceNow into a separate SQL database and then a first important step starts the qualification of the data is the data quality correct because the high degree of automation only works if the data is correct and of course if you wanted and display the data and do the analytics it's also key that the data is correct that's why we have established a data health - want to visualize is the data correct first step second one is then then we are displaying the data in tableau so with visualization layer doing the typical reports where you can slice down by division by country by service by cost cent or whatever the typical reporting but we are also doing that data and feeding it into for example Watson so we used Watson to see how intelligent he is so we gave Watson 1.3 million tickets and said hey Watson tell us what is exciting about 1.3 million tickets and that the first reaction was I don't understand because we have 5 languages a mix of languages Portuguese using Portuguese and English German and English and then Watson had some issues with understanding the tickets then we said ok then let's use just English portion 700,000 tickets and said hey Watson tell us now and he said issue ticket problems complained and whatnot and then I thought hey Watson you are telling me that those are tickets that is not the expectation I had based on what the Watson team is telling but to be fair to Watson that's not my point that I'm saying Watson is stupid I'm just saying 2 messages are important you really have to learn how to leverage that new technology and it really takes time so prepare your organization to apply those technology because also your organization needs a learning curve to apply that technology and the second example was with Asia so we gave or that the thesis was hey Asia can you tell us how to increase customer satisfaction and again we gave Asia with some nice mathematical formulas a lot of tickets and based on that model we learned what are the key success factors of satisfying a customer so it's of course how many times a ticket was routed how fast the ticket was picked up but we got really timestamps so we can also now adopt our SLA is to the providers to more satisfy the users and more excitingly based on four criterias we can now predict the satisfaction of the user so we can really say with 86% will that be rating between one and three what is not that good and if so this is now the next step we will feed that back into service now giving that ticket Aflac so the service desk agent can act on it and I think that is the exciting one not only collecting data learning out of it and then acting on it and now based on if a ticket is open we already can predict the customer satisfaction that is great providing guidance to the ServiceNow user so if I understand it correctly you're extracting data out of ServiceNow I think you've mentioned off-camera you bring some of that data into si P Hana yeah you mentioned your Watson tableau is the viz and you said Microsoft Azure exactly as well so like many big data problems you're solving it with a variety of tools that's challenging but you really have no choice is not one out-of-the-box solution is there nope well that's why we are now applying different technology to really learn what is in for us and quickly do is on POC check is it feasible is it a quick win or takes it longer or is the technology not that mature and then really follow up what is most promising is your expectation and desire that ServiceNow does sell all this in the platform for you and is that what you're pushing him to do I think the ratio which will get higher and higher what ServiceNow will be capable to do like the prediction of tickets and the route the automated routing that should be negative in ServiceNow but in regards to artificial intelligence I think there are other companies out there who are more at the front runner and really the lead us so I think it will be always a mixture out of ServiceNow but also pulling out some of the data to leverage other technology it's gonna be interesting to see what kind of merger and acquisition activity ServiceNow does certainly Mike Scarpelli and John Donahoe in the financial analysts meeting were hinting of acquisitions you would imagine they've done some in AI you would expect they do others I wonder if we could ask you about the climate in Germany with regard to machines replacing humans and cognitive functions obviously it's a very employee friendly environment what's the narrative like there what are you seeing yeah I think also big discussions in Germany about that digitalization is that disruptive to the job market and as I said with the example of Asia that is a core only artificial intelligent can do yeah no sense to use humans with a pocket calculator to do that doesn't make sense but on the other side I have also set up a team of 20 people who are doing let's say manual work they are monitoring the tickets for example three people and based on their experience and human factor to speak with the different resolve our groups applications they already reduced the ticket number they reduced the cycle time the number of the closing time was decreased by 20% so these are examples where you need humans because on the other side there are also humans and this optimization of looking at the data speaking with different people that have domain expertise this is really necessary where I see that humans are much more advanced than the machine learning so that's why I see balances of yes we are using Azure Watson and all those nice technologies but we are also ramping up people that really act on the data that they have at hand so there is less anxiety to this idea would you say exactly exactly so and that's why I am saying yes it will reduce some of the chops but hopefully the Nestea more administrative work and on the other hand it will create new opportunities especially in the integration layer where you need human intelligent and people who can act on and keep the ecosystem alive that is nothing a machine can do it is thanks so much for coming on the program it's always fun to have you on thank you we will have more from ServiceNow knowledge 18 of the cubes live coverage coming up just after this

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to theCUBE live coverage of ServiceNow. We are here at the Venetian in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dave Schneider. He is the Chief Revenue Officer of ServiceNow. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Oh, it's my pleasure. >> You're a CUBE veteran, so- >> It's good to be back. >> Not your first rodeo. No, it's really fun to be with you. >> So, I want to talk with you a little bit about the growth of the company, which has been really astonishing. Why has it grown so stupendously? What makes ServiceNow so special in your mind? >> I think the key to any great company is having really strong focus on the client, and the whole notion that the client's at the center of our universe. We build technology and service the people, and we act as one in service of our customers, because we know that in turn, our customers are serving their employees, their partners, and their ecosystems. So, just having that unified view as our true north is really empowered the growth. Great technology helps. Being in the Cloud really helps, but then also linking it back to who we are as an organization, what our purpose is, and what we're all about as a culture and a team. >> So, John Donahoe said, "Customer success is an important priority for us." So, I wonder, how do you define customer success? What are the metrics that you use to measure? >> There are a couple, and I think there's various phases of this. For one, are customers getting the value that they were hoping to achieve from the project, and more importantly, are they establishing that value clearly and in the front of that project, in the first place? Because some people just want to buy new technology for technology's sake, but that's not good enough. They need to really have a business value in mind, and we should be helping them to think about that, and then measuring that along the journey. Because if we achieve it, then they have more ammunition to go fight the next battle, the new automation to solve another problem. >> So, having said that, every customer's different. I mean, I'm sure there are patterns. So, how do you guys discern what matters to the customer? Do you have a process to do that? What is that process? And how much is the go-to-market team involved in that through the life cycle? >> It starts in the selling motion, it starts in the pre-sales motion, trying to understand the priorities of the executive team and the issues that are facing the customer. As we understand that, we're doing what they call a value assessment, and we share that back and forth with the client to make sure that we're onto the important issues that need to be solved. And then as the deal is structured and happening, and then they are going live, either with our PS people or our partners, which are such an incredible resource to our clients. We're then measuring the outcomes. Now, the measuring the outcomes part is a newer part of our motion, and you can see in our Customer Success Center, which was new as well, a value calculator, so customers are actually able to understand what the potential value is for a product with ServiceNow on different aspects of their business. >> I want to actually talk to you a little bit more about the Customer Success Center. It is new, newly launched. What was the impetus for launching it and then how is it being used? >> One of the things our customers had asked us for over the years is give us best practice. Be more prescriptive. You heard John talk about that on stage today. Tell us what other great customers, how do you recommend that we implement ServiceNow along the following domains? So, what we did is we picked 10 to 15 of the highest kind of gain items and focused on those first, being as prescriptive as possible. What's coming next is these little micro-focused burst ideas, so little things around what's good form design or other ideas great customers have done. But we'll be continuously publishing to that Customer Success Center, and then our community is now answering over 5,000 questions a week on what best practice is. >> They're crowd-sourcing these ideas. >> They are. >> Wow. >> And that's one of the secrets to this event to ServiceNow as a community is that the customers are helping other customers on their journey. >> Dave, organizationally, Customer Success management, professional services, training, and a partner ecosystem are all under sales. Talk about that a little bit. What precipitated that and how is that going? >> So, I actually reverse it. Customer Success is the overarching goal of the company. We happen to put sales, pre-sales, PS, Customer Success team, the technical training advisory piece, all within this group, knowing that it's about the journey. So, we didn't want to just focus on the selling motion. We want it to be inclusive of all aspects of what we think a great customer is going to expect of ServiceNow. So that's how we structure it. >> And how's that going? >> I think it's going pretty well. We're learning some motions on this, but I think the customers who are in that high-touch pilot that we have going on right now are experiencing some really good results from additional resources we're putting on it. They're appreciative of the fact that we have been very prescriptive in certain areas, and then we're organizing ourselves to be more unified to the client. I will say on the training and development front, the investments we're making around curriculum-designed, the mechanisms of getting that material out there, the better and more complete training that we have for our partner community is also yielding really great results. >> Frank Sleuben used to talk about IT are our peeps. >> They are. >> But still, the majority of your business from IT, much, much larger proportion outside of IT, but still a core chunk of the business's IT. You guys talk about digital transformation. My question is who's leading the digital transformation within your customer base? >> It's interesting, a lot of times we do have a group of IT professionals that are leaning in and leading the digital transformation, but they're usually partnered with someone else on the line of business, somebody who's got a goal, a desire to changes something, they're leaning in with that. One of the best examples is the Human Resources element around, they're being asked to change the digital experience for employees, to make the place a better place to work, more inclusive and belonging place to work. And they're using technology to help bridge that gap and get efficiency, so HR's been a real strong suit, and then we're seeing customer service re-imagining how they're going to reach out to customers with a service discipline. So this isn't just inside the company, but it's about how service disciplines can help with customer-partner relationships as well. >> Such a huge part of digital is getting digital right, whatever that means, and a lot of that involves, obviously, strategy at the board level, the C-Suite. When we first started doing this show, you didn't see a Deloy, E&Y, etc, certainly not as prominent as they are now. Those companies get heavily involved in that kind of digital transformation work. Where do you guys fit, how do you guys partner at that strategy level, and then where does ServiceNow come in as a platform? >> It's a great question, and I do think that what's happening here is that our customers, some of the early customers, really were just looking for new technologies to replace legacy technologies. The best of the best were taking that opportunity of transforming processes, either on their own or with partner communities, some of which are now here as larger sponsors and partners of ServiceNow. And now what we're seeing is this next generation of customer and/or our legacy customers, people who've been on the platform for a while, are recognizing that to get true value they've got to think about process. So, the bigger the SI, the ones who have process experience are going in with those customers really thinking about the art of the possible. You've heard Extensor talk about a human centric design, the human first with the heart centric design, making sure they're focused on the people and the process, rather than just the technology, and we're seeing that time and time again. >> I want to talk a little bit about not just the digital transformation, but the cultural transformation, and that has been a real talking point here at the conference so far. I want to hear how you, as the Chief Revenue Officer, are thinking about culture, the culture of ServiceNow, and making sure that culture is really pushed down throughout the organization. How do you do it? What are your best practices as a manager? >> Every day you have an opportunity to lead from the front and model the behaviors that you're expecting others to have, and I think one of the things that we're really proud of at ServiceNow is that we not just say that we're customer-focused, but we have evidence of really spending our time as an executive team, focused on the issues and directly with customers, making sure they're being heard and listened to actively. The other thing, inside the company, we have a tendency to describe ourselves as hungry and humble, that we want to keep achieving and keep pushing ourselves to the art of the possible, but we don't have a big ego about it, and I think when you see companies that are truly listening, the ego is pushed down and they're really focused on the outcome of the customer. And then that makes us feel good, and that's what's driving us forward. There are way too many companies with big egos that forget about the customer, and I think that's the beginning of the end for them. >> The fiefdoms, the egos, the the outdated policies and procedures, how do you kind of get rid of those, not just at ServiceNow, but at your customers that you're working with so closely? This is, again, we're practicing what we call the East-West motion at ServiceNow, between the leadership team, so myself and CJ Desai, or Mike Scarpelli, we have problems we're facing every day as we've grown the business. I've been with the company now almost seven plus years. The processes we had a year ago aren't sufficient to meet the needs of where we need to go tomorrow. So we have constant conversations at our levels about where we can use automation, where we can change process, or where we can use our own technology. As we do that, we're practicing that good East-West motion as executive team, and that's being modeled down beneath us in our people. The other thing I'll say is we often find ourselves listening like we're wrong, and I think that's important as a good leader or a good business person is that if you spend the time to understand the other person's perspective as an active listener, and understand their view, don't be so fixated that you're right all the time, and that allows us to really come together and solve tough problems. >> One of the key measures of success is renewal rates, and you guys are off the charts. I oftentimes get into Twitter debates. We were talking about Twitter and LinkedIn before, trying to help people understand the Mike Scarpelli math of how you count renewal rates, it's a dollar-based renewal rate, which is the only way to count for growing SaaS company, folk. You can't count units, do the math, it doesn't work. Check out the 10K and you can get the exact math, but astoundingly high renewal rates, increasing average contract values, to those numbers, it plays out in the financials. I know that's an outcome of the work that you're doing, but it underscores the success that you're having. >> When you start off and deliver great technology to solve a problem, and then you've got passionate customers, the things we have historically and continued replacing aren't things that change very often inside the enterprise, so it's very important to get it right on the way in, and then as you do that, customers do start to think of you as a 10 to 20-year relationship. And we should trust and treat each other as a 10 to 20-year relationship versus a transactional relationship. I think you're seeing that in our renewal rates, you're seeing that in our growth, you're seeing that in the traction of this event, and then that's really what's driving us forward. But as a sales professional, someone who has to go out there working with customers, the worst thing for a sales person is to have a non-renewal, because it's not just the loss of dollars, it's the loss of reputation. We take that really seriously as an organization. >> Well, Dave, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It's always a pleasure to have you here. >> Thank you for having me. It's great to see you guys. >> Great to see you, Dave. >> All right, bye-bye. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante. We will have more from ServiceNow just after this. (techy music)

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back, this is Day 3 of ServiceNow Knowledge17, and this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, where we go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and my co-host this week has been Jeff Frick. Not only this week, Jeff, but for the last five years, we've been doing ServiceNow Knowledge events, really getting a sense as to what this company is all about, the evolution of the company, the transformation from really early days of IT, help desk, service management, to now just permeating throughout the enterprise. One of the key things, Jeff, that is notable, and that we saw a couple years ago, I think it was three years ago, when they had the first CreatorCon. In fact, actually, in 2013, I think you did a little sidebar, you went out-- >> It was the Hackathon, we went with Allan Leinwand and checked in on the Hackathon. >> The point I want to make is that we work with these events, we come to these events. We see a lot of large company events, And whether it's Oracle or IBM or HPE, even, in the past. Even EMC with its code initative, they are drooling over developers. They can't get enough developer action, and it's like ServiceNow builds this platform, they create, they open it up with this low-code development kit, essentially, throw their glove in the field, and everybody comes to the game. >> Right, right. >> It's just amazing, and so today, Day 3, is about CreatorCon, and it was hosted by Pat Casey, who's the senior vice president of DevOps, and really the closest, I think, to the Fred Luddy DNA. I mean that's really Pat, you know, Fred Luddy's the founder of the company and sort of the icon of ServiceNow, not here, you know? We're entering a new era and it's really underscored culturally by CreatorCon and Pat Casey. You were in there today. What'd you think? >> Was it Fred termed the citizen developer? I can't remember, I'll have to go back and check the tape, because he definitely talked about low code, and I think he may have been the one that said citizen developer. And it's funny, even with CJ Desai, right, when he was thinking about coming over, what was the first thing he did? He downloaded the app, and wanted to create a little app. So everybody here is a developer, and I think, just looking back at some of the interviews yesterday, Donna from Cox Automotive, she built a prototype app. It was her, one business analyst, and an intern to start a whole new perspective, so I think, you know, they're really trying to make everybody a developer. It's a different way to think, and not just the business analyst, then you have to pass it off to development, but using, again, a simple workflow tool, it's still a workflow tool, to let everybody automate processes. And we were just in the CreatorCon. The other piece that really strikes me, and it strikes me every time I look at my phone now, you know, my phone knows I follow the Warriors, and so it just automatically gives me an update. So it's kind of this soft, a push of AI and machine learning into your day-to-day activity without this heavy overlay. And that's really how they do it effectively, and then that's kind of the basis of what they're doing here with integrating the machine learning into the applications to collect the data, build the models, try to take some of the mundane, mind-numbing work off of your plate and get people doing it, real decisions based on the machine giving you better data. >> It's an incredible dynamic to me, Jeff, because it's not like this company has a blank sheet of paper and says, "Okay, let's go after developers." They have this impassioned community of people, and they just keep rolling out new function, and then of course, ServiceNow has some really killer developers, internally, and so they make those people available to inspire and educate other developers, and so, as they say, this platform just permeates throughout the organization. I mean, it's really hard to do platforms. We've seen it so many times, you know, companies saying, "Okay, we're developing a platform," and the platform gets a little traction and it gets bought out, but this company, ServiceNow, really has a foothold here. So 4,500 people at CreatorCon this year, it's up from 2,000 last year, so another example of just super meteoric growth. Pat Casey, I loved, he put up the, you know, he showed a mainframe. It actually looked like a VAX to me, but anyway he put up a mainframe, and then he showed the H-P-U-X, what did he call it, HPUX? And, oh yeah we thought that was better, and then client server, it kind of worked for a while, and then he put up "August of 1995," and of course I was immediately saying, that's Gabe Ryden. >> Right, right. >> And then he showed the NetScape logo, and that really changed the development paradigm. >> Just as a way to, you know, and I'm sure none of us thought of it, it was just kind of web bulletin boards with pictures now, when you saw NetScape back in the day, but really as an application delivery vehicle, when you think of what browsers have become, it's pretty fascinating. I had a friend who was working on Chrome, and they described it as kind of an OS in a browser, and I'm like, who would want an OS in a browser? Well, now we're basically here. It's like the old Sun Ray machine, right? Anytime you log onto your browser, you're basically into everything in your world. Whether it's your phone, your tablet, my computer, your desktop computer. It's pretty fascinating. The other thing that Pat talked about was, you know, these things that we grew up with kind of in our imagination. He talked about flying cars, and then he adjusted it to maybe electronic cars, this vision, and now, you know, electronic cars are here, and Tesla's the highest-selling luxury nameplate out there. But in my old world it was flat TVs. The Jetsons had flat TVs. The concept of a flat TV was completely bizarre, and I remember seeing the first one in Chicago, at the Consumer Electronics show. It was like nine inches, you had to have secret passes to get back to see it, but now look what happened. I can't help but think of a Mar's Law, Dave, and he's Gartner's Trough of Disillusionment. I like a Mar's Law better, which is we overestimate the impact in the short term, but way underestimate the impact in the long term. Look at flat screens now, compared to, well, it didn't even exist now. And that's going to happen in AI, it's going to happen in machine learning, and in a very short period of time, especially with the advances in compute-store, networking, cloud, speed of networks, IOT, it's going to be a phenomenal amount of horsepower driving your interaction with all these various objects. >> Look at even the dot-com, you know, how overhyped that was, when really it was underhyped. >> Jeff: Right, in the long term. >> So, the other thing I loved, we've been talking about data for quite some time, and every time we came to a Knowledge show, we'd say, is there a big data angle here? Eh, well kind of, and it's really now coming into focus what the machine learning and AI and big data angle is, and Pat threw up a really nice infographic. He went back to 1969, he gave some interesting stats that I wasn't aware of. I knew the 2k, the moon landing was done on a computer with 2k of memory, that I knew. What I did not know is that it had two programs: one for docking and one for landing, and there wasn't enough memory on the computer to have both programs, so they had to reprogram the computer after the dock. >> Not even reload, right? They couldn't just put the USB stick into it. >> They had the code, which is kind of cool. So that was 2k, he had an intern download the 1982 census, and it was 182 megabytes. And then the human genome project was 53 gigabytes, which he's right, it wouldn't have fit on your previous iPhone, but it will fit on this one. And then, I didn't know this stat, the spell-checker in all of our phones and the red lines and so forth, the back end of that, that's sitting in the cloud, is four terabytes. So you're seeing this explosion of data. These are just some simple examples. So this company, again, it's not just starting from scratch saying, here's some kind of machine learning tool, apply it. What they're doing is saying, we're going to build this into the platform, take the existing corpus of data that you have, now what is that corpus of data? It's a bunch of incidents, it's a bunch of categories and people and it's going to autocategorize, for example, all these incidents, on an existing corpus of data. That's not how most people are using machine learning today. What many people are talking about is a use case of real time continuous applications and doing machine learning in real time to try to affect an outcome, which means try to get you to buy something, or try to detect fraud, or whatever it is. Some healthcare outcome, even. Although you'd think healthcare could be some more post process, but essentially that's what ServiceNow is doing. They're using a post-process methodology on top of this corpus of data to add instant value that lives inside of the platform. It's very compelling, simple, and practical in my view. >> And that's the part I love the best, Dave, is simple and practical and delivers immediate results. Allen Leinwand, who we'll have on later and we've had on a number of times, made a mention that the other thing that's very different is now the apps are listening in real time, and they're adjusting what they're doing and rejiggering their algorithm based on stuff that's happening in real time. So it's a different way to think about applications. And just a couple of things I wanted to touch on from yesterday, with some of the guests we had, a great reason we love the show is the number of customers we get is so high. And I was just struck by Donna Woodruff from Cox Automotive, how much she understood innately that it's a platform. Yes, she bought some applications, but she really understood the platform component and was able to drive from it. And the other one I just wanted to touch on was Eresh from Vitas Healthcare, and the impact of mobile. All I could think about when he was talking about was delivery service. Where's my truck, I had my fridge fixed the other day, where's the guys he close called me, and then to apply that to something as powerful as the work they're doing around hospice and to enable that nurse to get to one more stop per day. Wow, what an impact, just by getting on mobile. And the funny part, he said, is some of their older nurses, when they saw the mobile device, said, "I'm done, I'm not doing it anymore. I'd rather schlep around 25 pages of case information and then go back and forth to the hub in between every stop." So again it's this combination of all this power, all this coming to bear along the three horses of compute that are now delivering phenomenal transformation to people that are willing to think of things in a slightly different lens. >> Yeah, and when you look at the problems that ServiceNow is solving, they are in the boring but important category. And that's why I think that this company for a long time sort of flew under the radar, and is still misunderstood. I mean, even CJ, who's basically in charge of all the products, when he was first approached by ServiceNow, he's like "Meh, I don't really know." And then he dug into it and said, "Wow." So a lot of people don't understand it. I talked to a lot of people in the software business, software sales, people that just don't understand the power of what this company does, and I would make a prediction, is that like Salesforce before it, and we've been talking about this for years, how these guys are on a collision course, and they'll say "No, no, no" but very clearly, the power of the platform that Salesforce has, for example, and ServiceNow is replicating, in some way is much much different. Because Salesforce has a lot of bulldogs, sorry, we love it, we use it, but my point is, my prediction is that over time this company is going to become a very well-known company because of the impacts that it's having on the business. It's going from boring but important to, you know, fundamental transformation of organizations. And I tell you, CRM, I even put it up there with ERP. I think that what ServiceNow is doing is as big as the ERP trend, potentially bigger when you put in all the IOT stuff and the machine learning capabilities and the like with what is a relatively modern platform. >> Well, we're in an attention game, right? On the consumer side it's about attention. The thing that people have the least amount of anymore is time, so how do you get their attention? Do they spend their time on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, watching TV, looking at YouTube videos? Watch your kids. How do they spend those hours of their day? On the work side, what screen are you interacting with in your day? Are you in Salesforce all day? Are you in email all day? Are you in Salesforce all day? Are you in Marketo all day? That's where the competition is going to come. And there's only going to be two or three primary applications in which you engage and get work done, and they're making a hard play to say, "We are the application that we want basically in your face, that you're using to get stuff done all day long." >> One of the things, too, I wonder, you always wonder, is think about blind spots to a company like this. They're on this amazing ascendancy. What could come in and disrupt ServiceNow? And you think about the millenials, there's no question that ServiceNow is on to the new way to work. I call it the new way to work, I don't think they use that term. And the millenials are going to come in, and they don't want to use email. They're going to be much more open to adopting a platform. Now, is that platform going to be something like ServiceNow or is it going to be too boring but important? Are they going to do something more like Facebook? My feeling is this is enterprise, and as we talked about yesterday, is it possible that enterprise could actually begin adopting a lot of these consumer-like interfaces and user experiences and leapfrog in some regards because of the use of AI and the enterprise nature and the security capabilities that a company like this can bring? I don't know, maybe that's a stretch, but the gap between consumer and enterprise has to close. It is closing, and I think it will continue to close. >> I think it's the automation piece, to automate themselves out of their customer base. As more and more things are automated, there's going to be less and less and less people looking at the screen to do fewer tasks in terms of just an in. Blind spots always come where you're not looking, that's what's going to hit them, but certainly as more and more of this mundane stuff can be automated, if they can actually execute their vision so these autocategorization and autorouting and things are getting solved before they get to a customer service agent, happen, then their C-base licenses, but that's why they're trying to find other places to go. Facilities management, HR management, integration on the human connection across multiple applications, and to even these other systems, like we've heard about on the HR side, etc. So, I think that's, as the nature of work changes, what will people be doing with their work, or are they just going to be getting assigned tasks to go execute what the machines can't do? It's going to be interesting to watch it evolve. >> Well, and then coming back to the top of this segment, the developers, and that's really where the innovation occurs. The developer ecosystem here continues to grow. The importance of developers is very well understood. We've seen it previously with companies like Microsoft. We see all the big enterprise companies trying to appeal to the developer community. Certainly Amazon, Google, having great, very strong developer ecosystems, Apple as well, Facebook, and so forth. Enterprise guys continue to struggle, frankly, in that regard, and IBM's done a good job with Bluemix, but it's been a real heavy lift for IBM, HP. We've talked to, from Kadifa to all their software execs, and they just never were able to figure it out. Oracle kind of lost its developer edge, despite the fact that it owns Java now, and it's trying to get that back, whereas, as they say, ServiceNow just says, "Hey, let's have a game," and they throw their glove in the field and boom, everybody shows up. >> Think of the focus of a SaaS software company, or even like an Amazon, AWS, right? Everyone here in the company is working on platforms and derivative products from that platform. They don't have this hardware group, that hardware group, this software group, that software group. It's a single application at the end of the day. Salesforce is a single application at the end of the day, work day, single application at the end of the day. AWS, infrastructure for customers at the end of the day. So I think that gives them a huge advantage in terms of focus, everybody going in the same direction, and ability to execute. >> Everybody talks about platform as a service, and it's really, a lot of people say that whole market's collapsing. It's IaaS+, think Amazon, and it's SaaS-, think Salesforce and ServiceNow. All right, we've got to wrap. Keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest at theCUBE, we're live, Day 3 from Knowledge17. We're right back. (upbeat music)

>> Man's Voice: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to Orlando, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract a signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Jeff Frick. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering Knowledge. We started in Las Vegas, a little small event, Jeff, at Aria Hotel, and it's exploded from 3,500 all the way up to 15,000 people here in Orlando at the Convention Center. This is day two of our three day coverage. And, we heard this morning, you know, day one was the introduction of the new CEO, John Donahoe, taking over the reins for Frank Slootman. And, actually it was interesting, Jeff. Last night, we went around to some of the parties and talked to some of the folks and some of the practitioners. It was interesting to hear how many people were saying how much they missed Fred. >> Right, right. >> And the culture of fun and kind of zaniness and quirkiness that they sort of have, and there's some of that that's maintained here. We saw that in the keynotes this morning, and we'll talk about that a little bit, but what are your impressions of sort of that transition from, you know, really the third phase now we're into of ServiceNow leadership? >> Right, well as was commented again last night at some of the events, you know, a relatively peaceful transition, right. So, the difference between an evolution and a revolution is people die in revolutions. This was more of an evolution. It was an organized handoff, and a lot of the product leaders are relatively new. We just saw CJ Desai. He said he's only 100 days ahead of where John is at 45 days. So, it is kind of a, I don't know if refresh is the right word, but all new leadership in a lot of the top positions to basically go from, as been discussed many times, from kind of the one billion dollar mark to the four billion dollar mark, and then, of course, onward to the 10. So, it sounds like everyone is very reverent to the past, and Fred has a huge following. He's one of our favorite guest. The guy's just a super individual. People love him. That said, you know, it's a very clear and focused move to the next stage in evolution of growth. >> Well, I think that, you know, Fred probably, I mean, he may have said something similar to this either in theCUBE or sort of in back channel conversations with us, is, you know, ServiceNow, when they brought in Frank Slootman, it needed adult supervision. And, Fred doesn't strike me as the kind of person that's going to be doing a lot of the, you know, HR functions and performance reviews and stuff. He wants to code, right. I mean, that was his thing. And, now, we're seeing sort of this next level of ascension for ServiceNow, and you seen the advancement of their product, their platform. So this morning, CJ Desai kicked off the keynotes. Now, CJ Desai was an executive in the security business. He was an executive at EMC, hardcore product guy. He's a hacker. You heard him this morning saying when he was at a previous company, he didn't mention EMC, but that's what he was talking about, I'm pretty sure. They use ServiceNow, and when ServiceNow started recruiting him, he said I opened up an instance and started playing around with it, and see if I could develop an app, and I was amazed at how easy it was. And, they started talking to some of the customers and seeing how passionate they were about this platform, and it became an easy decision for him to, you know, come and run. He's got a big job here. He run, he's basically, you know, manages all products, essentially taking over for Fred Luddy and, you know, Dan McGee as a chief operating officer even though he hasn't used that title 'cause he's a product guy. But, all the GMs report up into him, so he is the man, you know, on top of the platform. So, he talked this morning about Jakarta, the announcement, and the key thing about, you know, that I'm learning really in talking to ServiceNow over the years, is they put everything in the platform, and then the business units have to figure out how to leverage that new capability, you know, whether it's machine learning or AI or some kind of new service catalog or portal. The business units, whether it's, you know, the managers, whether it's Farrell Hough and her team, she does IT service management, Abhijit Mitra who does customer service management, the IT operations management people, the HR folks, they have to figure out how they can take the capabilities of this platform, and then apply it to their specific use cases and industry examples. And, that's what we saw a lot of today. >> But, it's still paper-based workflow, right? 'Cause back to Fred's original vision, which I love repeating about, the copy room with all the pigeonholes of colored paper that you would grab for I need a new laptop, I need a vacation request, I need whatever, which nobody remembers anymore. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's put in a request, get it approved, does it need to be worked, and then executed. So, whether that's asking for a new laptop for a new employee, whether that's getting a customer service ticket handled, whether it's we're swinging by doing name changes, it's relatively simple process under the covers, and then now, they're just wrapping it with this specific vocabulary and integration points to the different systems to support that execution. So, it's a pretty straightforward solution. What I really like about ServiceNow is they're applying, you know, technology to relatively straightforward problems that have huge impact and efficiency, and just getting away from email, getting away from so many notification systems that we have, getting away from phone calls, getting away from tech-- Trying to aggregate that into one spot, like we see it a lot of successful applications, sass applications. So, now you've got a single system of record for the execution of these relatively straightforward processes. >> Yeah, it really is all about a new way to work, and with the millennial work force becoming younger, obviously, they're going to work in a different way. I saw, when I tweeted out, was the best IT demo that I'd ever seen. Didn't involve a laptop, didn't involve a screen. What Chris Pope did, who's kind of an evangelist, he's in the CSO office, he was on... the chief strategy office, he was on yesterday. He came up with a soccer ball. Right, you saw it. And, he said >> Football. Make sure you say it right. He would correct you. (Jeff laughs) >> And, he said for those of you who are not from the colonies, this is a football. And then, he had somebody in a new employee's t-shirt, he had the HR t-shirt, the IT t-shirt, the facilities t-shirt, and they were passing the ball around, and he did a narrative on what it was like to onboard a new employee, and the back and forth and the touch points and, you know, underscoring the point of how complex it is, how many mistakes can be made, how frustrating it is, how inefficient it is, and then, obviously, setting up conveniently the morning of how the workflow would serve us now. But, it was a very powerful demo, I thought. >> Well, the thing that I want to get into, Dave, is how do you get people to change behavior? And, we talk about it all the time in theCUBE. People process in tech. The tech's the easy part. How do you change people's behavior? When I have to make that request to you, what gets me to take the step to do it inside of service now versus sending you that email? It seems to me that that's the biggest challenge, and you talk about it all the time, is we get kind of tool-creep in all these notification systems and, you know, there's Slack and there's Atlassian JIRA and there's Salesforce and there's Dropbox and there's Google Docs and, you know, the good news is we're getting all these kind of sass applications that, ultimately, we're seeing this growth of IPA's in between them and integration between them, but, on the bad side, we get so many notifications from so many different places. You know, how do you force really a compliance around a particular department to use a solution, as we say that, that's what's on your desk all the time, and not email? And, I think that's, I look forward to hearing kind of what are best practices to dictate that? I know that Atlassian, internally, they don't use email. Everything is on JIRA. I would presume in ServiceNow, it's probably very similar where, internally, everything is in the ServiceNow platform, but, unfortunately, there's those pesky people outside the organization who are still communicating with email. So, then you get, >> Exactly. >> Then, now, you're running kind of a parallel track as you're getting new information from a customer that's coming in maybe via email that you need to, then, populate into those tickets. That's the part I see as kind of a challenge. >> Well, I think it is a big challenge. And, of course, when you talk to ServiceNow people privately and you say to them, "Have you guys eliminated email?" Then, they roll their eyes and "I wish." (Jeff chuckles) But, I would presume their internal communications, as you say, are a lot more efficient and effective. But, you know, it's a Cloud app, and Cloud apps suffer from latency issues. And, it's like when you go into a Cloud app, you know, you log in. A lot of times, it logs you out just for security reasons, so you got to log back in and you get the spinning logo for awhile. You finally get in and then, you got to find what you want to do, and then you do it. And, it's a lot slower just from an elapse time standpoint than, actually not from an elapse time. So, from an initiation standpoint, getting something off your desk, it's slower. The elapse time is much more efficient. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And so, what I think ends up happening is people default to the simple email system. It's a quick fix. And then, it starts the cycle of hell. But, I think you're making a great point about adoption. How do you improve that adoption? One of the things that ServiceNow announced this morning, is that roughly 30% improvement in performance, right. So, people complain about performance like any Cloud-based application, and it's hard. You know, when you even when you use, you know, look at LinkedIn. A lot of times, you get a LinkedIn request, and you go, "I'll check it later." You don't want to go through the process of logging in. Everybody's experienced that. It's one of those >> Right, right. >> Sort of heavy apps, and so, you just say, "Alright, I'll figure it out later." And, Facebook is the same thing. And, no doubt, that ServiceNow, certainly Salesforce, similar sort of dynamics 'cause it's a Cloud-based app. And so, hitting performance hard, as you say, the culture of leaving it on your desk. The folks at Nutanix, Dheeraj is telling me they essentially run their communications in Slack. (chuckles) and so, >> Right. >> You know, they'll hit limits there, I'm sure, as well, but everybody's trying to find a new way to work, and this is something that I know is a passion of yours, because the outcome is so much better if you can eliminate email trails and threads and lost work. >> Right. And, we're stuck now in this, in the middle phase which is just brutal 'cause you just get so many notifications from so many different applications. How do you prioritize? How do you keep track? Oh my God, did you ping me on Slack? Did you ping me on a text? Did you ping me on a email? I don't even know. The notification went away, went off my phone. I don't even know which one it came through its difficulty. The good news is that we see in sass applications and, again, it's interesting. Maybe just 'cause I was at AWS summit recently. I just keep thinking AWS, and in terms of the efficiency that they can bring to bear, that resources they can bring to bear around CP utilization, storage utilization, security execution, all those things that they can do as a multi-vendor, Cloud-based application, and apply to their Cloud in support of their customers on their application, will grow and grow and grow, and quickly surpass what most people would do on their own 'cause they just don't have the resources. So, that is a huge benefit of these Cloud-based applications and again, as the integration points get better, 'cause we keep hearin' it 'cause you got some stuff in Dropbox, you got some stuff in Google Docs, you got some stuff in Salesforce. That's going to be interesting, how that plays out, and will it boil back down to, again, how many actual windows do you have open that you work with on your computer. Is it two? Is it three? Is it four? Not many more than that, and it can't be. >> Yeah, so today here at Knowledge, it's a big announcement day. You're hearing from all the sort of heads of the businesses. Jakarta is the big announcement. That's the new release of the platform. Kingston's coming, you know, later on this year. ServiceNow generally does two a year, one in the spring summer, one in the fall, kind of early winter. And, Jakarta really comprises performance improvement, a new security capability where, I thought this was very interesting, where you have all these vendors that you're trying to interact with, and you tryin' to figure out, okay, "What do I integrate with "in terms of my third party vendors, and who's safe?" You know, and "Do they comply "to my corpoetics?" >> Right, right. >> And, ServiceNow introducing a module in Jakarta which going to automate that whole thing, and simplify it. And then, the one, the big one was software asset management. Every time you come to a conference like Knowledge, and you get this at Splunk too, the announcements that they make, they're not golf claps. You'd get hoots and woos and "Yes" and people standing up. >> Jeff: That was that and that was the one, right? >> Software SM Management was the one. >> Jeff: (chuckles) put a big star on that one. >> Now, let's talk about this a little bit because they mentioned in, they didn't mention Oracle, but this is a bit pain point of a lot of Oracle customers, is audits, software audits. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> And, certainly Oracle uses software audits as negotiating leverage, and clients customers don't really know what they have, what the utilization is, do they buy more licenses even though they could repurpose licenses. They just can't keep track of all that stuff, and so, ServiceNow is going to do it for ya. So, that's a pretty big deal and, obviously, people love that. As I said, 30% improvement in performance. And, yeah, this software asset management thing, we're going to talk to some people about that and see what their-- >> But, they got the big cheer. >> What their expectation is. >> The other thing that was interesting on the product announcement, is using AI. Again, I just love password reset as an example 'cause it's so simple and discrete, but still impactful about using AI on relatively, it sounds like, simple processes that are super high ROI, like auto-categorization. You know, let the machine do auto-categorization and a lot of these little things that make a huge difference in productivity to be able to find and discover and work with this data that you're now removing the people from it, and making the machine, the better for machine processes handled by the machine. And, we see that going all through the application, a lot of the announcements that were made. So, it's not just AI for AI, but it's actually, they call it Intelligent Automation, and applying it to very specific things that are very fungible and tangible and easy to see, and provide direct ROI, right out of the gate. >> Well, this auto-categorization is something that, I mean, it's been a vexing problem in the industry for years. I mentioned yesterday that in 2006 with the federal rules of civil procedure change that made electronic documents admissible, it meant that you had to be able to find and submit to a court of law all the electronic documents on a legal hold. And, there were tons of cases in the sort of mid to late part of the 2000's where companies were fined hundreds and millions of dollars. Morgan Stanley was the sort of poster child of that because they couldn't produce emails. And, as part of that, there was a categorization effort that went on to try to say, okay, let's put these emails in buckets, something as simple as email >> Right, right. >> So that when we have to go find something in a legal hold, we can find it or, more importantly, we can defensively delete it. But, the problem was, as I said yesterday, the math has been around forever. Things like support vector machines and probabilistic latent semantic index and all these crazy algorithms. But, the application of them was flawed, and the data quality >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Was poor. So, we'll see if now, you know, AI which is the big buzz word now, but it appears that it's got legs and is real with machine learning and it's kind of the new big data meme. We'll see if, in fact, it can really solve this problem. We certainly have the computing horse power. We know the math is there. And, I think the industry has learned enough that the application of those algorithms, is now going to allow us to have quality categorization, and really take the humans out of the equation. >> Yeah, I made some notes. It was Farrell, her part of the keynote this morning where she really talked about some of these things. And, again, categorization, prioritization, and assignment. Let the machine take the first swag at that, and let it learn and, based on what happens going forward, let it adjust its algorithms. But, again, really simple concepts, really painful to execute as a person, especially at scale. So, I think that's a really interesting application that ServiceNow is bringing AI to these relatively straightforward processes that are just painful for people. >> Yes, squinting through lists and trying to figure out, okay, which one's more important, and weighting them, and I'm sure, they have some kind of scoring system or weighting system that you can tell the machine, "Hey, prioritize, you know, these things," you know, security incidence >> Right, right. >> Or high value assets first. Give me a list. I can then eyeball them and say, okay, hm, now I'm going to do this third one first, and the first one second, whatever. And, you can make that decision, but it's like a first pass filter, like a vetting system. >> Like what Google mail does for you, right? >> Right. >> It takes a first pass. So, you know, these are the really specific applications of machine learning in AI that will start to have an impact in the very short-term, on the way that things happen. >> So, the other thing that we're really paying attention here, is the growth of the ecosystem. It's something that Jeff and I have been tracking since the early days of ServiceNow Knowledge, in terms of our early days of theCUBE. And, the ecosystem is really exploding. You know, you're seeing the big SIs. Last night, we were at the Exen Sure party. It was, you know, typical Exen Sure, very senior level, a bunch of CIOs there. It reminded me of when you go to the parties at Oracle, and the big SIs have these parties. I mean, they're just loaded with senior executives. And, that's what this was last night. You know, the VIP room and all the suits were in there, and they were schmoozing. These are things that are really going to expand the value of ServiceNow. It's a new channel for them. And, these big SIs, they have the relationships at the board room level. They have the deep industry expertise. I was talking to Josh Kahn, who's running the Industry Solutions now, another former EMCer, and he, obviously, is very excited to have these relationships with the SI. So, that to me, is a big windfall for ServiceNow. It's something that we're going to be tracking. >> And, especially, this whole concept of the SIs building dedicated industry solutions built on SI. I overheard some of the conversation at the party last night between an SI executive, it was an Exen Sure executive, and one of the ServiceNow people, and, they talked about the power of having the combination of the deep expertise in an industry, I can't remember which one they were going after, it was one big company, their first kind of pilot project, combined with the stability and roadmap of ServiceNow side to have this stable software platform. And, the combination of those two, so complementary to take to market to this particular customer that they were proposing this solution around. And then, to take that solution as they always do and then, you know, harden it and then, take it to the next customer, the next customer, the next customer. So, as you said, getting these big integrators that own the relationships with a lot of big companies, actively involved in now building industry solutions, is a huge step forward beyond just, you know, consultative services and best practices. >> Well, and they have such deep industry expertise. I mean, we talked yesterday about GDPR and some of the new compliance regulations that are coming to the banking industry, particularly in Europe, the fines are getting much more onerous. These SIs have deep expertise and understanding of how to apply something like ServiceNow. ServiceNow, I think of it as a generic platform, but it needs, you know, brain power to say, okay, we can solve this particular problem by doing A, B, C, and D or developing this application or creating this solution. That's really where the SIs are. It's no surprise that a lot of the senior ServiceNow sales reps were at that event last night, you know, hanging with the customers, hanging with their partners. And, that is just a positive sign of momentum in my opinion. Alright, Jeff, so big day today. CJ Desai is coming on. We're going to run through a lot of the business units. You know, tomorrow is sort of Pronic demo day. It's the day usually that Fred Luddy hosts, and Pat Casey, I think, is going to be the main host tomorrow. And, we'll be covering all of this from theCUBE. This is day two ServiceNow Knowledge #Know17. Check out siliconangle.com for all the news. You can watch us live, of course, at thecube.net. I'm Dave Vellante, he's Jeff Frick. We'll be right back after this short break. (easygoing music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17. Brought to you by ServiceNow. (upbeat electronic music) >> Welcome back to sunny Orlando, everybody. This is ServiceNow Knowledge17 #Know17. I'm Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick. John Donahoe is here as the newly-minted CEO and President of ServiceNow, fresh off the keynote, fresh off 49 days in. John, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much, it's great to be here. >> John: So how'd you feel up there? You had the theater in the round, you were working the audience, I loved how you walked on the stage and really got into it. How's it feel? >> Well, what I love about ServiceNow, is it's a community-based business and a community-based company. And so, we had 15,000 members of our community out there, and that community feeling is, I think, one of the real powers of the movement that's called ServiceNow and of the ethos of this company. So, I loved that, I fed off that energy. >> So, at the risk of some repetition, a little bit of background about yourself, a former Bain, former eBay CEO, you shared that with the audience. What is relevant about your background to the ServiceNow experience that you expect to have? >> Well, you know it's funny Dave, I spent the first 20 years of my career at Bain doing business transformation. And a lot of what I talked about today was digital transformation, that is, every company is trying to transform. And I spent the first 20 years of my career focused on that. And then we talked a lot about great customer experiences. Well, the consumer world and consumer-based applications like eBay, or PayPal, or many other consumer applications, are defining the new standards of what kind of easy, simple, intuitive experiences are possible. And employees are consumers at home and they're increasingly expecting the same kind of great experiences they have at home at work, and as customers of enterprises. And so I think you're going to see the world of consumer and enterprise converging. And so that's why I'm very excited about being a part of ServiceNow. >> So, you talked to the audience, as I say, about your background. You're a family man, you've got Four children. >> John: Yeah >> Jeff: Pictures on stage; which I love. You know, it really kind of goes with the folksy, you know, history of this company and the community base. Not too many people put their family photo up on the keynote. I thought it was great. >> John: Yeah, well, they're my bosses, so... (all laughing) >> Dave: Well, like you said, they make you humble >> John: Yeah. >> Dave: and you learn a lot from them, so... So I appreciated you starting that. I've got Four kids, Jeff's got kids, and so... >> John: That's great. >> Dave: And you're hosting a women in tech breakfast tomorrow, a real passion of ours, so, maybe talk about that a little bit. >> Well, I just think it's really, really important. And, people ask me: "Why do you think that way?" I think it's good business, right? At the end of the day, the ultimate thing we do to succeed in business is we need to attract, develop, and retain the very best people, >> Dave: Right. >> John: and by definition, 50% of the workforce is female. And so, to not be aggressively trying to cultivate that part of our team is to miss an opportunity. And doing it well is hard, but if you do it well, it could be a source of competitive advantage. So, I care deeply about it professionally, and then also personally as a father of a daughter, the question I ask men that have daughters and say: "Do you want your daughter to grow up and be part of a work environment that's even better than the one they would have been if they'd come at your time?" And almost all of us say, "Yes!" >> Jeff: Of course >> John: So, it's a responsibility we all share. >> So, I want to ask about your management philosophy. You know, I've heard the term, of course you have too, "benevolent dictator". You use the term, >> "servant leadership". >> "servant leadership". >> John: Yeah. >> Dave: Which starts at the customer on top. Explain your philosophy there. >> Well, it's a way I learned to lead early in my career; which is: that it's the opposite of a classic pyramid. Right, where the CEO's on top and everything's underneath. No, this is an upside-down triangle, where the reason we're here is to serve our customers, to serve our employees as they serve our customers, to serve the purpose and to the extent you can, to serve the communities in which we are part of. And my experience is that: building that deeply into the culture of a company breeds a level of commitment and a level of long-term orientation that's really important. And ServiceNow's had that from the beginning. Think about Fred Luddy embodied that. He was a brilliant technologist, and he said, "You know what, I'm going to recruit a CEO" "before the company goes public who has those skills." So, he recruited Frank, right? And Fred stayed involved. Frank embodied servant leadership. Frank could've stayed forever. Frank said I was the right CEO to serve this purpose from 75 million to a Billion Four. And then he started to looking for someone that's the right person to serve for the next generation; which is me. So this notion of stewardship, we're all here to serve our customers and try to make our purpose come alive over a long period of time. And I think it's the most enduring motivation and inspiration we can have. And it keeps the customer front and center. >> Well, so one of the first things you did in your first 100 days, you said you wanted to see 100 customers, you actually accomplished that in 45 days. So, first of all congratulations, first of all how'd you do that? (all laughing) >> Well, I went at a roadshow to 10 cities across the U.S. and just packed my days full of meetings with customers. And they were individual meetings, and we had some group meetings, some lunches and dinners. And those are some of the best because you get a conversation going. I had Four or Five, Six customers around a breakfast table or dinner table and we start talking about their issues. And, the dynamic in every situation was they would start sharing with each other. They would say, "Well, how are you addressing this?" And they'd starting saying they have similar issues, similar challenges, similar ideas of how they're going to address it. So, the power, that community power, I was seeing firsthand in smaller settings. And for me, it was just so energizing because our limitation of how quickly we can get better is well we understand our customer's needs, and also understand their feedback about where we can get better. >> Well it's interesting, you said you were a customer when you ran eBay... >> John: Yes. >> Jeff: of ServiceNow, so that's kind of some of your background knowledge of the company. When you went out on your tour, what were some of the things that surprised you that you didn't know even though you had been kind of a ServiceNow customer in the past? >> Well, I think what I hadn't fully understood was the power of the ServiceNow platform, and how it's getting pulled into new areas across the company. So, it's getting pulled to customer-facing applications, customer-facing processes like Ashley at GE is talking about. >> Jeff: Right. >> John: And it makes sense, right? I know at eBay and PayPal, we really worried a lot about how do we handle inbound contacts from our users. And password reset was the #1 inbound contact. (dave laughing) Well, password reset is a perfect process that can be handled in an automated in a self-help way; which is ultimately what the customer wants. >> Jeff: Right. >> John: And ServiceNow can help enable that. And so, as I was sort of surprised and delighted by how this platform is getting pulled into new use cases, that in many ways are back to what Fred Luddy imagined when he founded the company. The interesting thing is, Fred founded the company as a platform to serve all services, businesses, business processes across the enterprise. And then, but platforms don't generate revenue, They don't sell. So, he found an application: ITSM; which was the first application, and it took off. And so ServiceNow began to be known as the IT company. But that was never what Fred envisioned. It was a company that enabled and empowered IT to simplify and automate and transform the entire company. >> It's interesting, password reset. Because it seems like such a simple process. And it doesn't necessarily seem like a high-value process. But in fact, it's hugely high-value for the customer. It's hugely cumbersome in terms of the time it takes. So, to automate something that seems so simple as password reset, has huge implications in terms of efficiency inside and customer satisfaction on the outside. What a great example. >> Well, and here's what's so interesting about that example: Is, it touches multiple parts of the company. Because, people actually, your password is your security. And you could automate changing it in a way that was insecure. But, you've got to do it in a way that it's the convenience that we want to reset our passwords, but we want to know we're safe. And so, that password reset flow has to touch security, it has to touch engineering, it has to touch operations and customer support, it has to touch the customer's record, and so it's a classic multi-function, multi-discipline flow, but you want to make that easy and simple for a user, and yet also have them feel safe. Simple and safe is hard to do. >> John, you mentioned Ashley from GE, I want to talk about digital transformation. It's one of those terms you hear a lot at these conferences, sometimes it's amorphous, it's kind of like A.I. We'll talk about that if we have time. But Jeff, I love your quote. We follow GE quite closely, and Jeffrey Immelt said: "I went to bed an industrial giant," "and I woke up a software company one day." >> John: Yep. >> Dave: And you see this everywhere. So what is digital transformation to you and the customer's that you've been talking to? >> Well, here's, technology and software in particular on one hand is disrupting every company in every industry. I view that as a motivation. I view that as a wake-up call for all of us, including a software company. And, software is an opportunity. An opportunity to make changes and advancements at a pace and a magnitude that's been unparallelled in business history. So every company needs to define how they're going to use technology, how they're going to use software, how they're going to use digital capability to their advantage. To their advantage with their own consumers, their own customers, either industrial customer or a consumer in a consumer business, and how to use it to change the employee's experience and improve it. So, employees are spending time not on manual tasks; which now can be done by technology, but on higher value-added activities, and then how you can operate a global enterprise in an effective and efficient manner. And so, technology is an offensive weapon if you will, an offensive tool, is something that's on the mind of every CEO, and every company. And that's where they're looking for how do they have a few trusted partners. A few trusted technology partners that help them navigate their way through that, help them drive their way through, and that's ultimately what ServiceNow is. >> So these are big ideas, and they involve a lot of different constituencies within your customer base. Obviously, your IT peeps, as we like to say, but the CIO, who's role is changing, and also the line of business folks. So these are big, heavy lifts that you can't do alone. You've got to have an ecosystem to do that. When we did our first Knowledge in 2013, the SIs were a lot of companies frankly that we never even heard of. And now, you're seeing all the big SIs. I don't even want to name them because I'll forget some. But, your partner strategy is critical to achieving that vision that you just laid out, isn't it? >> Absolutely, Absolutely. Because it takes both of us. It takes our software and then their capabilities to help our shared customers, shared clients, implement the software, and do it increasingly in a way that is as configurable as possible; which means as minimum customization as possible, and also as quickly as possible. And our partner ecosystem's an essential partner in doing that. And there's the big SIs, and then also some of the smaller ones. I spent some time with customers in some smaller cities where they're saying having local capabilities, local teams, that were trained and certified on ServiceNow was really important to them. Often they end up being acquired by or joining the bigger SIs over time, but that sort of grass roots opportunity. Because that's also job creation. That's job creation in communities. I got to see how talented, computer-literate, software-literate people in different cities around the world are seeing an opportunity to create a livelihood by helping customers integrate ServiceNow in the most effective way. >> So two years ago, Frank Slootman in his keynote said that the CIO's role is changing and they're becoming business people. >> John: Yes. >> Dave: And kind of challenged CIOs, if you don't speak wallet you better start learning that language, the "lingua franca" of the business. So, you obviously agree with that. But, how is the CIO role changing, and how does it support other roles within the organization, that you're trying to apply ServiceNow to? >> Well, I have a really, Jeff, a really outside-in... Or, Dave, really outside-in...sorry about that. >> Dave: It's alright. >> John: I've had a lot of names this morning. >> Jeff: I'm sure you have. >> Dave: That's pretty good. >> John: Outside-In view of this. Which is through the eyes of the customer, alright? The CEO is thinking about: "Alright, I've got to serve our customers better," "I've got to retain our customers" "and serve our customers better." "And then I've got to tract and retain employees" as we've been talking about. "And I need the digital capability," "I need technology to help us do that." Their going to turn to the most technically-literate person in the C-suite to help do that. That's the CIO, right? And so the CIO by very definition has to play a broader role of partnering with the business unit leaders, with the functional leaders, to drive that end-to-end business transformation or digital transformation. And the CIOs that I met are ready to take on that challenge. They couldn't have done that before the cloud technologies that give them the ability to play offense. But these cloud technologies now cut across, they don't just sit in IT, they cut across all of the enterprise. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> John: And so, I would say there's almost this gigantic sucking sound, if you will, to use an old Ross Perot-ism, that IT and the CIO are being asked to play this role, be change agents, strategic change agents, across the enterprise. And they're ready to do that, but they do need to speak business in business terms, and business value, and business value means: Are we serving our customers better? What's our customer NPS? What's our customer response time? What's our customer retention? They need to speak employee value terms: What's our ability to retain our best employees? What's their satisfaction? And then of course they have to speak the business terms of efficiency, right? Are we being more productive and more efficient as we're serving our customers and as we're serving our employees? And so, the CIOs I met and the IT professionals I met, are asking for help to translate what they do into that business language. And the very best ones are doing it. And I think you'll see that trend continue more and more. >> And they've got to have automation, and they've got to have efficiency because their budgets aren't going up commiserately with their increased responsibility to drive this digital transformation. So they've got to wring that extra value out of the tools and processes and people that they have, and that's where you really help them quite a bit. I think I saw a quote the other day that someone went from 60 days to Two days in a business process, amazing. >> Well, and it's interesting because companies are investing more in technology than they ever have. If you take the broad technology spend, they're investing more in technology. But, they expect to get productivity and efficiency, not just out of IT, but across the entire enterprise. >> Jeff: Across the board. >> John: And that's the opportunity: More investment, greater productivity, greater value for customers and employees. >> You talked yesterday to the financial analyst about the sort of execution machine that you inherited. Personally, I think you have a great CFO, one of the best if not the best in the business. So I presume you're not going to be spending a lot of your time trying to restructure reporting and counting beans, no pejorative intended there. So, what do you bring to the organization? Where are you going to spend your time? And what are your main goals over the next mid-term and long-term? >> Well, as you said, I'm blessed. Mike Scarpelli, I think, is a world-class CFO and the best in the industry and I'm honored and thrilled to work with him. Same with Dave Schneider and Kevin Haverty who run our sales force. And now CJ Desai, our Chief Product Officer, Dan Rogers, we've got a really strong team. My focus is to have us continue our current momentum, continue the current execution that we're focusing on. But then, to begin to sort of chart a course for 2018, 2019, 2020, and beyond as we go from being a billion-dollar company, to a four, to five-billion dollar company, to beyond to a 10-billion dollar company. And the nice news is that it's building on top of this very solid foundation. As we evolve from being what has been an IT-focused platform company to be more of a digital transformation platform and company. And helping our clients, helping our customers, achieve their aims and their goals, and being one of the few trusted technology partners. Every company has a few trusted technology partners and we want ServiceNow to be one of those. And, to do that, you've got to be viewed as mission-critical and adding real value, both of which I think we are. >> Dave: So you could joke, you know, don't mess it up. >> John: Yes. >> Dave: Okay, and take it to another level; which really is kind of what seems to be your expertise. Bringing it into the line of business is talking to the CEO and other C-level executives. And actually, marrying the expertise of the CIO has cross-organizational purview, leveraging that capability and super-powering that. >> Exactly. Exactly. You know, it's interesting. If I were to look back on the last 15 years, the C-suite role that has changed the most in the last 15 years has been that of the CFO. 15 years ago CFOs were being counters. >> Dave: Yeah. >> John: Right? Today, as you said, as Mike Scarpelli and Bob Swan, my previous CFO at eBay and the best CFOs, they drive value across the enterprise. Right? They're almost COOs in their mindset. They work with business units, and they add enormous value. So that job has become significantly more important and powerful. I see the same thing happening with the CIO over the next Five to 10 years where the CIOs role with grow, and expand, and broaden. And that's exciting. >> Well, you know, one of the things, actually, you know, we come to these conferences, and there's obviously a lot of messaging, but we try to understand how that messaging actually fits with what customers are doing. One of the things that you guys are messaging this year is light speed. And so, when you talk about the CFO and the changing role, it brings up, to my mind anyway, light speed requires a new set of metrics, and listening to, like Scarpelli, talk yesterday, he's all over the metrics. And these aren't, you know, your typical, you know, EBITDA metrics, they are just a new set. Do you see that happening within, not only ServiceNow, but within your customer base, where the so-called, I'll call them, "light speed" metrics are emerging? >> Absolutely. I mean, you saw the example of Dave Wright going through the machine learning, and how the machine learning capability, when applied to the ServiceNow platform, applied to specific problems, helps you fix problems before they happen in an automated fashion. Imagine that, right? That's light speed. Dave said it so well on stage. (all laughing) That's even faster than light speed. And so, you begin to see, alright, how do you measure, in delivering a great customer experience, how do you measure the reductions of problems? How do you measure the prevention of problems that provides greater availability, greater reliability, greater consistency, of a customer's experience? Now, ultimately that measure will be in customer NPS or some other customer metrics. But, some of the subordinate metrics I think you will see a growing number of what I would call L2, L3 metrics, that is, a dashboard of how to run a great company around customers, employees, and financials. >> Alright John, I know you're super busy, we've got to leave it there. Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE and congratulations on the role, great keynote, and best of luck. We'll be watching. >> John: Thanks very much Dave, thanks >> You're welcome, alright. >> From me, congratulations. Keep it right there, buddy, we'll be right back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from ServiceNow, Knowledge17. Be right back. (upbeat electronic music)