>>Hello and welcome to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john Kerry, host of the cube agent I own L. C. Ceo and co founder chairman of Morantes cube alumni Adrian Great to see you. Thanks for coming on the cube here for dr khan coverage. Good to see you. Hey >>john nice to see. You gotta do. >>So obviously open source innovation continues. You guys are at the forefront of it. Great to see you what's new Miranda's, give us the update on what's happening. >>Well, I mean what's, what's interesting is we've had one of the best years ever last year and it's very much more continuous, you know, into this year. It's pretty fantastic. We wanted about 160 new customers. Kubernetes is definitely on a tear. We see customers doing bigger and bigger and more exciting things, which is absolutely great to say lens is getting tremendous destruction and I think we have a five fold increase in user base within a year. So it's a lot of fun Right now, customers are definitely pushing the boundaries of what benefits can do. And they want to get the cloud native infrastructure and they want to get there faster and they want to be big and exciting things. And we are so happy to be part of the right. >>You guys are investing in brand new open source solutions for customers. Give us an update on on why and why do they matter for your customer? >>Well, there are, let me unpack this a little bit and there are really two elements to this. One is wide. Open Source and what's new. What matters. So the open source is not new, but open source is being embraced more and more heavily. Bye bye companies everywhere because just a very flexible and cost efficient and highly innovative way to to use innovation and to continue software and a lot of innovation these days is happening the open source communities, which is why it's super exciting for many, many users now. What's new with us? I think there are two really terrific things that we brought the market that we see, get a lot of interest and attention from our customers and create value. One is this idea of delivering, including the infrastructure that's been in space as a service for some of the largest news cases out there. Very large enterprises. We want to have a cloud experience on prime just like they have it in public clouds. That is absolutely fantastic. And that's new and different and very, very exciting. Customs. The second thing that's new and compelling and exciting is the is lands which is this kubernetes, i. e. that has empowered in the meantime, close to 180,000 communities, developers around the world to make it much much easier to take advantage of genetics. So you can think of it as a I. D. And a D. Bugger for anybody who is using genetics on public clouds or on on private infrastructure. That is getting tremendous traction and adoption. >>The interest in kubernetes has been unbelievable. I mean in coop con we saw kubernetes almost become boring in the sense of like it's everyone's using it and there's still now it's enabling a lot more cloud native development. Why does that lens matter what is the benefit? Because that's that's a killer opportunity because kubernetes is actively being adopted. The general consensus is it's delivering the value. >>Yeah. So let me unpack this in two aspects why Wise Bennett is important, why people adopting it and then how it lands adding value on top of it for people who want to use humanity's common. It is tremendously important is because it solves some very, very fundamental problems for developers and operators when building cloud native applications. These are problems that are very essential to actually operating in production but are really unpleasant people to solve, like availability, scalability, reusability of services. So all of that with amenities comes right out of the box and developers no longer have to worry about it. And at the same time, the benefits gives you a standard where you can build apps on public clouds and then move them on prem or build them on trend with them on public clouds and anywhere in between. So it gives a kind of this universal cloud native standard that you as a developer can rely on. And that's extremely valuable for developers. We all remember from the java times when java came online, people really value this idea of white ones run anywhere and that's exactly what benefits does for you in a clown in the world. So it's extremely screaming valuable for people. Um now how does let's add value in this context is also very exciting. So what's happening when you build these applications on a minute? This is that you have many, many services which interact with each other in fairly complex and sometimes unpredictable ways and they're also very much interact with the infrastructure. So you have you can you can imagine kind of this jungle this label building of many different cloud native services working together to build your app, run your app well, how are you going to navigate that and debug that as a developer as you build and optimize your code. So what lengths does it gives you kind of like a real time poppet of pounds of console. You can imagine like you're a fighter pilot in this jet and you have all these instruments kind of coming out here and gives you like this fantastic real time situational awareness. So you can very quickly figure out what is it that you need to do? Either fixing a bug in your application or optimize the performance of the code of making more your rival fixing security issues. And it makes it extremely easy for developers to use. Right? But this tradition has been hard to use complicated, this makes it super fast, easy, have a lot of fun. >>You know, that is really the great theme about this conference this year and your point exactly is developer experience making it simpler and easier. Okay. And innovative is really hits the mark on productivity. I mean and that's really been a key part. So I think that's why I think people are so excited about kubernetes because it's not like some other technologies that had all the setup requirement and making things easier to get stood up and manage. Its huge. So congratulations. A great point, great call out there, great insight. The next question to ask you is you guys have coined the term software factory. Um, yeah, this kind of plays into this. If you have all the services, you can roll them up together with lens and those tools, it's gonna be easier, more productive. So that means it's more software, open source is the software factory to what does that term mean? And how >>it is leverage. Yeah, So here's what it means to us. And so, as you know, today, Soft is being produced by two groups working together to build software, uh, certainly the poor people are the developments, these are the people who create the core functionality. Imagine all the software should be architected and ultimately ship the code right? And maintain the code, but the developers today don't operate just by themselves. They have their psychics, they have their friends for often platform engineering and platform engineers. These are the people who are helping developers, you know, make some of the most important choices as to which platform states we should use, which services they should use, how they should think about governance. How should they think about cloud infrastructure they should use, which open source libraries they should use. How often they should be fresh those libraries and support. So this platform engineers create if you want the factory, the substrate and the automation, which allows these developers to be highly productive. And the analogy want to make is the chip design, right. If you imagine ship design today, you take advantage of a lot of software, a lot of tooling and a lot of free package libraries. You get your job done, you're not doing it by yourself. Uh just wiring transistors together or logical elements. You do it using a massive amount of automation and software, like recent polls. So that's that's what we aim to provide you to customers because what we discovered is that customers, I don't want to be in the business of buildings off the factories, They don't want to be in the business or building platform engineering teams. If they can avoid it, they just do it because they have no choice. But it's difficult for them to do. It's cumbersome, it's expensive. It's a one off. It really doesn't create any unique business value because the platform engineering for a bank is very similar to the platform engineering for, let's say, an oil gas company or the insurance company. Um So we do it for them turnkey as a service. So they can be focusing on what Madison's for that. >>That's a great inside. I love that platform engineering, enabling software developers because, you know, look at sas throwing features together. Being a feature developer is cool. And and and the old days of platform was the full stack developer. And now you have this notion of platform as a service in a way, in this kind of new way. What's different agents? You've seen these waves of innovation? Certainly an open source that we've been covering your career for over a decade uh with more Anderson and open stick and others. This idea of a platform that enables software. What's changed now about this new substrate, you mentioned what's different than the old platform model? >>Uh That's a wonderful question. Uh a couple of things are different. So the first thing that's different is the openness and uh, and that everything is based on open source frameworks as opposed to platforms that we that are highly opinionated and, and I lock in. So I think that's that's a very, very fundamental difference. If you're looking at the initial kind of platform as a service approaches, there were there were extremely opinionated and very rigid and not always open source or just a combination between open source and proprietary. So that's one very big difference. The second very big difference is the emphasis on, and it goes along with the first one, the emphasis on um, multi cloud and infrastructure independence, where a platform is not wedded to a particular stack, where it's a AWS stack or a uh, an Azure stack or the EMR stack. And, and but it's truly a layer above. That's completely open source center. >>Yeah. >>And the third thing that is different is the idea that it's not just the software, the software alone will not do the job, you need the software and the content and the support and the expertise. If you're looking at how platform engineering is done at the large company like Apple, for example, facebook, it's really always the combination of those three things. It's the automation framework, the software, It's the content, the open source libraries or any other libraries that you create. And then it's the expertise that goes all this together and it's being offered to developers to be able to take advantage of this like soft factory. So I think these are the major differences in terms of where we are today was five years ago, 10 years ago. >>Thank you for unpacking that for I think that's a great uh great captures the shift and value. This brings up my next uh question for you because you know, you take that to the next level. DeVOps is now also graduating to a whole another level. The future of devops uh and software engineering more and more around kubernetes and your tools like lens and others managing the point. What is the new role of devops? Obviously Deb see cops but devops is now changing to What's the future of devops in your opinion? >>Well, I believe that there is going to become more and more integrated where our option is going to become uh something like Zero Arts, where are you going to be fully automated And something that's being delivered entirely through software and developers will be able to focus entirely, on, on creating and shipping code. I think that's the major, that's a major change that's happening. The problem is still yet I think to be solved like 100% correctly is the challenge of the last mile. like deploying that code on on on the infrastructure and making sure that he's performing correctly to the sls and optimizing everything. I also believe that the complexity veneta is very powerful by the same time offers a lot of room for complexity. There are many knobs and dials that you can turn in these microservices based architecture. And what we're discovering now is that this complexity kind of exceeds the ability of the individual developer or even a group of developers who constantly optimize things. So I believe what we will see is a I machine learning, taking charge of optimizing a lot of parameters, operating parameters around the applications and that unemployment benefits to ensure those applications perform to the expectations of the illness. And that might mean performing to a very high standard security. Or it might mean performing to a very a low latency in certain geography. Might mean performing too a very low cost structure that you can expect and those things can change over time. Right? So this challenge of operating an application introduction Burnett is substrate is I think dramatically higher than on just additional cloud infrastructure or virtualization. Because you have so many services inter operating with each other and so many different parameters you can set for machine learning and Ai >>I love the machine learning. Ai and I'd love to just get your thoughts on because I love the Zero ops narrative Because that's day one zero ops now that you're here day to being discussed and people are also hyping up, you know, ai Ops and other things. But you know this notion of day to, okay, I'm shipping stuff in the cloud and I have to have zero ops on day 234 et cetera. Uh, what's your take on that? Because that seems to be a hot air that customers and enterprises are getting in and understanding the new wave, writing it and then going, wait a minute pushing new code that's breaking something over there I built months ago. So this is just notion of day to obstacle. But again, if you want to be zero ops, it's gonna be every day. >>Oh, I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think there's going to be a difference between they want the zero they want and today chair, I think every day is going to be the zero. And the reason for that is because people will be shipping all the time. So your application will change all the time. So the application will always be fresh, so it will always be there zero. So zero ops has to be there all the time. Not just in the birthday. >>Great slogan! Every day is day zero, which means it's going well. I mean there's no no problems. So I gotta ask you the question was one of the big things that's coming up as well as this idea of an SRE not new to devops world, but as enterprises start to get into an SRE role where with hybrid and now edge becoming people not just industrial, um there's been a lot of activity going on a distributed basis. So you're gonna need to have this kind of notion of large scale and 00 ops, which essentially means automation, all those things you mentioned, >>not everyone can >>afford that. Um Not every company can afford to have you know hardcore devops groups to manage and their release process, all that stuff. So how are you helping customers and how do you see this problem being solved? Because this is the accelerant people want, they want the the easy button, they want the zero ops but they just they don't they can't pipeline people fast enough to do this role. >>Yeah. What you're describing is the central differentiator we bring to customers is this idea of as a service experience with guaranteed outcomes. So that's what makes us different versus the traditional enterprise infrastructure software model where people just consume software vendors and system integrate themselves and then are in charge of operations themselves and carrying the technical risks themselves. We deliver everything as a service with guaranteed outcomes through the through cloud native experience. That means guaranteed as L. A. Is predictable outcomes, continuous updates, continuous upgrades. Your on prem infrastructure or your edge infrastructure is going to look and feel and behave exactly like a public cloud experience where you're not going to have to worry about sRS or maintaining the underlying being delivered to you as a service. That's a big part, that's a central part of what makes us different in this space. >>That's great value proposition. Can you just expand give an example of a use case where you guys are doing that? Because this is something that I'm seeing a lot of people looking to go faster. You know speed is good but also it could kill right? So you can break things if you go to a. >>Yeah absolutely. I can give you several examples where we're doing this um very exciting company. So one companies booking dot com booking dot com as a massive on from infrastructure but they also massive public cloud consumer. And they decided they want to bring their own infrastructure to the cloud level of automation, cloud level Sophistication, in other words, they want to have their Aws on brand, they wanted to the old, so eccentric and we're delivering this to them with very high in the cell is exactly as a service turnkey Where there is nothing for them to system in grade or to tune and optimize and operate is being really operating 24/7 guaranteed sls and outcomes by us. Well, combination of soft film expertise that we have at massive scale and to the standards of booking dot com. This is one example, another example and this is a very large company um is the opposite side of the spectrum. You know, because they're not called Mexico super successful. Soft as a service company in the security space, growing in leaps and bounds in very high technical demands and security demands. And they want to have an on prem and cloud infrastructure to complement public clouds. Why? Because security is very important to them. Latency is very important to them. Control the customer experience is very important to them. Cost is very important to them. So for that reason they want that in a network of data centers around the globe And we provide that for them. Turnkey as a service than before seven, which enables them to focus 100% on building their own sense on their the functionality which matters to their customers and not have to worry about the underlying cloud infrastructure in their data centers. All of that gets provided to them has guaranteed about experience to their end users. So this would be the examples where we're doing a >>great service. People are looking for a great job. Adrian, Great to see you. Thank you for coming on the cube here, doc are gone 2021. Um, take a minute to put a plug in for the company. What are you guys up to? What you're looking for hiring? I'll see. You got great tracks with customers, congratulates on lens. Um give a quick update on what's going >>on. Happy happy to give it up in the company. So he, here are the highlights. It was super excited about about what we achieved last year and then what we're up to this year. So last year, what we're proud of is despite Covid, we haven't laid off a single person. We kept all the staff and we hired staff. We have gained 160 new customers, many of them, some of the world's largest and best companies and 300 of all existing customers have expanded their business with us last year, which is fantastic. We also had a very strong financial physical cash flow positive. It was a tremendous, tremendous here for us. Uh, this year is very much growth here for us and we would incredible focus on customer outcomes and customer experience. So what we are really, really digging in super hard on is to give the customers the technology and the services that enable them to get to ship software faster and easier to dramatically increase the productivity of dissolved the development efforts on any cloud infrastructure on crime and public clouds using containers and is and to do that as scale. So we're extremely focused on customer outcomes, custom experience and then the innovation is required to make that happen. So you will continue to see a lot of innovation around lens. So the last better release of lens that we brought about has now a cloud service and have a lot of feature where you can share all your cloud automation with your bodies, in, in uh, in uh, in your development team. So the lens used to be a single user product. Now it's a multi user and team based product, which is fantastic, continues to grow very quickly. And then container cloud as a service. Uh, it's a very big part that we're meeting on the infrastructure side. Are you get quite >>the open source cloud company. Adrian. Congratulations. We've been again following even on the many waves of innovation. Open stack, large scale open source software. Congratulations. >>Uh chris >>Thank you very much for coming on the cube. >>Yeah. >>Okay. Dr khan 2021 cube coverage. I'm john furrier here where the Gi Enel Ceo, co founder and chairman of Miranda's sharing his perspective on the open source innovation with their process and also key trends in the industry that is changing the game in accelerating cloud value cloud scales. Cloud native applications. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you >>by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john ferrier host of the Q. We've got a great guest here brian Bouchard, co founder president and ceo of Allah credit brian, great to see you um promoting it all the way from Puerto rico to Palo Alto. >>Great to >>see. First of all. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. >>Yeah great, Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Um first of all, before we get into what you guys do and how this all ties in to think what do you guys do? It Alex Burnett, Why the name uh is good, you're at the top of the list and alphabetically, but tell us the secret behind the name and what you guys do. >>So first of all, a crochet is based on the root word alacrity, which means a prompt and will prompt a joyous prompt itude excuse me to achieve a common goal. So we ultimately our network of >>individuals with >>the traits of alacrity. So eloquent. So that's our name. >>Great. So what's your relation with IBM and how you guys been able to leverage the partnership program in the marketplace take us through the relationship >>so Well, first of all, L. A. Quartet is a platinum IBM business partner and was awarded recently the 2020 IBM north american Partner of the Year award. And we were selected among 1600 other business partners across North America. We've been actually a consulting an IT. consulting company for almost 20 years now and we were founded in 2002 in Palo Alto. And we have focused specifically on cybersecurity since 2013. What is >>Right, what are some of the things you guys are working on? Because obviously, you know, the business is hot right now, everyone's kind of looking at Covid saying we're gonna double down on the most critical projects and no time for leisurely activities when it comes to I T and cloud scale projects, you know, mission critical stuff is happening. What are you guys working on? >>So we're focused on cybersecurity. Our our security services really complement IBM suite of security solutions and cover the full spectrum from our research and penetration testing, which helps identify vulnerabilities before it reach occurs. And we also have managed security services which helps prevent detect and remediate attacks in real time. >>And then finally, we also have a security staffing division and a software resale division which kind of rounds out the full amount of offerings that we have to provide protection for our clients. >>What are some of the biggest challenges you guys have as a business and house IBM helping you address those? >>Well, as you know, john, we all know that the importance of cyber security in today's world, so it's increasing in both demand and importance and it's not expected to wait any time soon. Cyber attacks are on the rise and there's >>no >>Uh there's no expected end in sight to this and in fact just this week on 60 minutes, uh, the Jay Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, he noted that cyber attacks were the number one threat to the stability of the US. economy. >>Also this week, >>a public school in Buffalo new york was hacked with ransomware >>and the school, this uh, >>the school district is just contemplating you're paying the ransom to the hackers. So there's literally thousands of these attacks happening every day, whether it's in a local school district or state government or an enterprise, even if you don't hear about them, they're happening. And adding to the complexity that the cyber Attackers pose is the complexity of the actual cybersecurity tools themselves. There isn't a single solution provider or single technology that could ensure a company security. Our customers need to work with many different companies and disconnected tools and processes to build an individual strategy that can adequately protect their organizations. >>You know, I love this conversation whenever I talked to practitioners, uh, cybersecurity, you know, first of all, they're super smart, usually cyber punks, and they also have some kind of eclectic background, but more importantly, is that there's different approaches in terms of what you hear. Do you do you put more if you add more firefighters so to speak, to put out the fires and solve the problems? Or do you spend your time preventing the fires from happening in the first place? You know, and you know, the buildings are burning down, Don't make a fire fire uh don't make would make fire resistance, you know, more of a priority. So there's less fires, not firefighters. So it's that balance. You throw more firefighters at the problem or do you make the supply or the material, the business fireproof? What's your take on that? >>Well, it kind of works >>both ways. I mean, we've seen customers want to, they really want choice. They >>wanna, in some >>cases they want to be the firefighter and in some cases they want the firefighter to come in and solve their problems. So >>the common problem set that we're seeing with our our customers encounter is that they struggle one with too many disparate tools and then they also have too much data being collected by all these disparate tools and then they have a lack of talent in their environment to manage their environment. So what we've done at Lacqua net is we've taken our cybersecurity practice and we've really uh specifically tailored our offerings to address these court challenges. So first to address the too many disparate tools problem, uh We've been recommending that our clients look at security platforms like the IBM cloud pack for security. The IBM cloud fax for security is built on a security platform that allows interoperability across various security tools using open standards. So our customers have been responding extremely positively to this approach and look at it as a way to future proof their investments >>and begin taking advantage of >>interoperability with >>hand tools integration. >>Talk about what you see your business going with with this because you know there's not a shortage of of need um demand. Um How are you guys flexing with the market? Uh What's the strategy are you going to use technology enablement? You're gonna more human driven brian how do you see your business of unfolding >>Well? Actually really good. We're doing very well. I mean obviously we've made the top business partner for IBM in 2020. Um we have some significant growth and a lot of interest I think we really attacked the market in a good strategy which was to help defragment the market if you will. There's a lot of point solutions and a lot of point vendors that you know they they spent uh specialize in one piece of the whole problem and what we've decided to do is find them the highest party list. Every see so and see IO has a tick list. So >>they have that >>you know uh first thing we need we need a sim we need a E. D. >>Are we need a >>managed service? We need um what's the third solution that we're doing? So we need some new talent in house. So we actually have the added that as well. So we added a security staffing uh division to help that piece of it as well. So to give you an idea of the cybersecurity market size, It was valued at 150 billion in 2019. And that is expected to grow to 300 billion by 2027. >>And Akron is well positioned to consolidate the many fragmented aspects of the security marketplace and offer our customers more integrated and easier to manage solutions. And we will continue to help our customers select the best suite of solutions to address all types of cyber security, cyber security threats. >>You know, it's such a really important point you're making because, you know, the tools just piled up in the tool shed, I call it like that, It's like, it's like you don't even know what's in there anymore and then you've got to support them, then the world's changed, get cloud native, the service area is increasing and then the CSOs are also challenged. Do I have any clouds? Do I build on? Do I optimize my development teams for AWS or Azure? Now, that's kind of a factor. So you have all this tooling going on? They're building their own stuff, they're building their own core competency. And yet the sea so still needs to be like maintaining kind of like a relevance list. That's almost like a stock market for the, for the products you're providing, that it sounds like you're providing that kind of service. >>Uh, yeah, as well. Right? We distill all of the products that are out there, there's thousands of cybersecurity products out there in the marketplace and we kind of do all that distillation for the customer we find using, you know, using a combination of things we use uh Forrester and Gartner and all the market analysts to shortlist are, are solutions that we offer customers. But then we also use our experience. And so through since 2013, we've been deploying these solutions across organizations and corporations across America and we've gained a large body of experience and we can take that experience and knowledge to our customers and help them make some good decisions. So they don't have to make them go through the pitfalls that many companies do when selecting these types of solutions. >>Well, congratulations, got a great business and uh you know, that's just a basic, starts making things easier for the sea. So more so they can be safe and secure in their environment. It's funny, you know, cyber warfare, you know the private company have to fight their own battles, going to build their own armies. Certainly the government's not helping them and they're confused even know how to handle all this stuff. So they didn't they need your service. I'm just curious as this continues to unfold and you start to see much more of a holistic view. What's the IBM angle in here? Why are you such a big partner of theirs? Is it because their customers are working with you? They're bringing you into business? Is it because you have an affinity towards some of their products? What's the connection with IBM, >>all of the above? So >>I think it probably started with our affinity to IBM P radar products and we have a we have a lot of expertise in that in that solution. Um, so >>that's that's where it >>started. And then I think I B. M. S leadership in this space has been, Yeah, >>remarkable. Really. So like what's happening now with the IBM compaq for security, building a security platform to allow all these points solutions to work together. Uh that's the road map we want to put our customers on because we believe that's the that's the future for this, this uh, this marketplace >>and the vision of hybrid cloud having that underpinning be with red hat, it's a Lennox Colonel model of >>all things you can you can run it on. Sure. I've been plowed uh aws it's portable. Yeah. All this openness, as you probably know, uh, cybersecurity is really a laggard in the security and the information technology space as far as adopting open standards and IBM is I think leading that charge and you'll be able to have a force multiplier >>uh >>with open standards in the space. >>Open innovation with open source is incredible. I mean if you if if open source can embrace a common platform and build that kind of control, playing and openness to allow thriving companies to just build out, then you have an entire hybrid distributed >>architecture. Yeah, well, I think companies want to use the best in breed. So when we, when we show these solutions to customers, they want the best in breed, they always say, I don't, when it comes to security, they don't want second best. They want the best that's out there because they're securing their crown jewels. So that makes sense. Um, so the problem is having all these different disparate solutions that are all top in their category, none of them talk to each other so we need to address that problem because without that being solved this is just going to be a more, it's going to compound the complexity of the problems we solve day to day, >>awesome, congratulations brian, great story. Um you know entrepreneur built a great business over the years um I think the products amazing, I think that's exactly what the market needs and it just shows you what the ecosystems all about. This is the power of the ecosystem. You know 1000 flowers are blooming, you got a great product. IBM is helping as well. Good partnership network effect builds in and and still a lot more to do. Congratulations. >>Absolutely. Okay thank you very much >>brian thanks >>for coming on the q appreciate it. I'm Sean Fourier with IBM thinks 2021 virtual coverage. Thanks for watching. Mhm.

(upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to this Cube conversation. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCube here in Palo Alto, California. We're here in 2021 as we get through the pandemic and vaccine on the horizon all around the world. It's great to welcome Sandy Carter, Vice President of Partners and Programs with Amazon Web Services. Sandy, great to see you. I wanted to check in with you for a couple of reasons. One is just get a take on the landscape of the marketplace as well as you've got some always good programs going on. You're in the middle of all the action. Great to see you. >> Nice to see you too, John. Thanks for having me. >> So one of the things that's come out of this COVID and as we get ready to come out of the pandemic you starting to see some patterns emerging, and that is cloud and cloud-native technologies and SAS and the new platforming and refactoring using cloud has created an opportunity for companies. Your partner group within public sector and beyond is just completely exploding and value creation. Changing the world's society is now accelerated. We've covered that in the past, certainly in detail last year at re:Invent. Now more than ever it's more important. You're doing some pretty cutting things. What's your update here for us? >> Well, John, we're really excited because you know the heartbeat of countries of the United States globally are small and medium businesses. So today we're really excited to launch Think Big for Small Business. It's a program that helps accelerate public sector serving small and diverse partners. So you know that these small and medium businesses are just the engine for inclusive growth and strategy. We talked about some stats today, but according to the World Bank, smaller medium business accounts for 98% of all companies, they contribute a 50% of the GDP, two-thirds of the employment opportunities, and the fastest growing areas are in minority owned businesses, women, black owned, brown owned, veteran owned, aborigine, ethnic minorities who are just vital to the economic role. And so today this program enables us as AWS to support this partner group to overcome the challenges that they're seeing today in their business with some benefits specifically targeted for them from AWS. >> Can I ask you what was the driver behind this? Obviously, we're seeing the pandemic and you can't look at on the TV or in the news without seeing the impact that small businesses had. So I can almost imagine that might be some motivation, but what is some of the conversations that you're having? Why this program? Why think Big for Small Business pilot experience that you're launch? >> Well, it's really interesting. The COVID obviously plays a role here because COVID hit small and medium businesses harder, but we also, you know, part of Amazon is working backwards from the customers. So we collected feedback from small businesses on their experience in working with us. They all want to work with us. And essentially they told us that they need a little bit more help, a little bit more push around programmatic benefits. So we listened to them to see what was happening. In addition, AWS grew up with a startup community. That's how we grew up. And so we wanted to also reflect our heritage and our commitment to these partners who represent such a heartbeat of many different economies. That was really the main driver. And today we had, John, one of our follow the sun. So we're doing sessions in Latin America, Canada, the US, APJ, Europe. And if you had heard these partners today it was just such a great story of how we were able to help them and help them grow. >> One of the cultural changes that we've been reporting on SiliconANGLE, you're seeing it all over the world is the shift in who's adopting, who's starting businesses. And you're seeing, you mentioned minority owned businesses but it goes beyond that. Now you have complete diverse set entrepreneurial activity. And cloud has generated this democratization wave. You starting to see businesses highly accelerated. I mean, more than ever, I've never seen in the entrepreneurial equation the ability to start, get started and get to success, get to some measurable MVP, minimal viable product, and then ultimately to success faster than ever before. This has opened up the doors to anyone to be an entrepreneur. And so this brings up the conversation of equality in entrepreneurship. I know this is close to your heart. Share your thoughts on this big trend. >> Yeah, and that's why this program it's not just a great I think achievement for AWS, but it's very personal to the entire public sector team. If you look at entrepreneurs like, Lisa Burnett, she's the President and Managing Director of DLZP. They are a female owned minority owned business from Texas. And as you listen to her story about equity, she has this amazing business, migrating Oracle workloads over to AWS, but as she started growing she needed help understanding a little bit more about what AWS could bring to the table, how we could help her, what go to market strategies we could bring, and so that equalizer was this program. She was part of our pilot. We also had John Wieler on. He is the Vice President of Biz Dev from IMT out of Canada. And he is focused on government for Canada. And as a small business, he said today something that was so impactful, he goes, "Amazon never asked me if I'm a small business. They now treat me like I'm big. I feel like I'm one of the big guys and that enables me grow even bigger." And we also talked today to Juan Pablo De Rosa. He's the CEO of Technogi. And it's a small business in Mexico. And what do they do? They do migrations. They just migrate legacy workloads over. And again, back to that equality point you made, how cool was it that here's this company in Mexico, and they're doing all these migrations and we can help them even be more successful and to drive more jobs in the region. It's a very equalizing program and something that we're very proud of. >> You know what I love about your job and I love talking to you about this (Sandy laughs) because it's so much fun. You have a global perspective. It's not just United States. There's a global perspective. This event you're having this morning that you kicked off with is not just in the US, it's a follow the sun kind of a community. You got quite the global community developing there, Sandy. Can you share some insight behind the curtain, behind AWS, how this is developing? How you're handling it? What you're doing to nurture and grow that community that really wants to engage with you because you are making them feel big because (laughs) that's what cloud does. It makes them punch above their weight class and innovate. >> Yeah, that's very correct. >> This is the core thesis of Amazon. So you've got a community developing, how are you handling it? How are you building it? How are you nurturing it? What are your thoughts? >> You know what, John? You're so insightful because that's actually the goal of this program. We want to help these partners. We want to help them grow. But our ultimate goal is to build that small and medium business community that is based on AWS. In fact, at re:Invent this year, we were able to talk about MST which is based out of Malaysia, as well as cloud prime based out of Korea. And just by talking about it, those two CEOs reached out to each other from Korea and Malaysia and started talking. And then we today introduced folks from Mexico, and Canada, and the US, and Bulgaria. And so, we really pride ourselves on facilitating that community. Our dream here, our vision here is that we would build that small business community to be much more scalable but starting out by making those connections, having that mentoring that will be built in together, doing community meetings that advisory meetings together. We piloted this program in 2020. We already have 37 partners. And they told me as I met with them, they already feel like this small and medium business community or family. Family was the word they used, I think, moving forward. So you nailed it. That's the goal here is to create that community where people can share their thoughts and mentor each other. >> And it's on the ground floor too. It's just beginning. I think it's going to be so much larger. And to piggyback off that I want to also point out and highlight and get your reaction to is the success that you've been having and Amazon Web Services in general but mainly in the public sector side with the public private partnership. You're seeing this theme emerge really been a big way. I've been enclose to it and hosting and being interviewing a lot of folks at that, your customers whether it's cybersecurity in space, the Mars partnership that you guys just got on Mars with partnerships. So it's a global and interstellar soon to be huge everywhere. But this is a big discussion because as from cybersecurity, geopolitical to space, you have this partnership with public private because you can't do it alone. The public markets, the public sector cannot do it alone. And it pretty much everyone's agreeing to that. So this dynamic of public sector and partnering private public is a pretty big deal. Unpack that for us real quickly. >> Yeah, it really is a big deal. And in fact, we've worked with several companies. I'll just use one sector. Public Safety and Disaster Response. We just announced the competency at re:Invent for our tech partners. And what we found is that when communities are facing a disaster, it really is government or the public sector plus the private sector. We had many solutions where citizens are providing data that helps the government manage a disaster or manage or help in a public safety scenario to things like simple things you would think, but in one country they were looking at bicycle routes and discovered that certain bicycle routes there were more crashes. And so one of our partners decided to have the community provide the data. And so as they were collecting that data, putting in the data lake in AWS, the community or the private sector was providing the data that enabled the application, our Public Sector Partner application to identify places where bicycle accidents happen most often. And I love the story, John, because the CEO of the partner told me that they measured their results in terms of ELO, I'm sorry, ROL, Return on Lives not ROI, because they save so many lives just from that simple application. >> Yeah, and the data's all there. You just saw on the news, Tiger Woods got into a car accident and survived. And as it turns out to your point that's a curve in the road where a lot of accidents happen. And if that data was available that could have been telegraphed right into the car itself and slow down, kind of like almost a prevention. So he just an example of just all the innovation possibilities that are abound out there. >> And that's why we love our small businesses and startups too, John. They are driving that innovation. The startups are driving that innovation and we're able to then open access to that innovation to governments, agencies, healthcare providers, space. You mentioned Mars. One of our partners MAXR helped them with the robotics. So it's just a really cool experience where you can open up that innovation, help create new jobs through these small businesses and help them be successful. There's really nothing, nothing better. >> Can I ask you- >> Small, small is beautiful. >> Can I asked you a personal question on this been Mars thing? >> Yeah. >> What's it like at Amazon Web Services now because that was such a cool mission. I saw Teresa Carlson, had a post on the internet and LinkedIn as well as her blog post. You had posted a picture of me and you had thumbs were taking an old picture from in real life. Space is cool, Mars in particular, everyone's fixated on it. Pretty big accomplishment. What's it like at Amazon? People high five in each other pretty giddy, what's happening? >> Oh yeah. The thing about Amazon is people come here to change the world. That's what we want to do. We want to have an impact on history. We want to help make history. And we do it all on behalf of our customers. We're innovating on behalf of our customers. And so, I think we get excited when our customers are successful, when our partners are successful, which is why I'm so excited right now, John, because we did that session this morning, and as I listened to Juan Pablo Dela Rosa, and just all the partners, Lisa, John, and just to hear them say, "You helped us," that's what makes us giddy. And that's what makes us excited. So it could be something as big as Mars. We went to Mars but it's also doing something for small businesses as well. It runs the spectrum that really drives us and fuels that energy. And of course, we've got great leadership as you know, because you get to talk to Andy. Andy is such a great leader. He motivates and he inspires us as well to do more on behalf of our customer. >> Yeah, you guys are very customer focused and innovative which is really the kind of the secret sauce. I love the fact that small medium sized business can also be part of the solutions. And I truly believe that, and why I wanted us to promote and amplify what you're working on today is because the small medium size enterprise and business is the heart of the recovery on a global scale. So important and having the resources to do that, and doing it easily and consuming the cloud so that they can apply the value. It's going to change lives. I think the thing that people aren't really talking much about right now, is that the small medium size businesses will be the road to recovery. >> I agree with you. And I love this program because it does promote diversity, something that Amazon is very much focused on. It's global, so it has that global reach and it supports small business, and therefore the recovery that you talked about. So it is I think an amazing emphasis on all the things that really matter now. During COVID, John, we learned about what really matters, and this program focuses on those things and helping others. >> Well, great to see you. I know you're super busy. Thanks for coming on and sharing the update, and certainly talking about the small mid size business program. I'm sure you're busy getting ready to give the awards out to the winners this year. Looking forward to seeing that come up soon. >> Great. Thank you, John. And don't forget if you are a small and medium business partner 'cause this program is specifically for partners, check out Think Big for Small Business. >> Think Big for Small Business. Sandy Carter, here on theCube, sharing our insight, of course all the updates from the worldwide public sector partner program, doing great things. I'm John Furrier for theCube. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by Silicon Angle. Hi, this is David Linton. You're watching the Cubes coverage of the Cube on Cloud, our own virtual event where we're trying to understand the future of cloud, where we've come from and where we're going. And we're bringing in visionaries to really have that detailed conversation. Daniel Jones is here. He's the CEO of automation specialist. You. I path Daniel. Thanks for coming on and sharing your insights here. >>Thank you so much for inviting me. They've appreciated. >>That's always a pleasure to get together with folks that have started companies with a seed of a vision and have exploded in tow. You know, great success. And when I wanna go back to the the the founding days of you, I path 2005. It was a pre cloud. There's certainly pre cloud as we know it today. A w s came out in 2006. Aw, and then we saw the clouds Ascendancy. But but your original founding premise there was no cloud, you know, it wasn't like a startup could just spend up stuff in the cloud. But what you've seen that evolution. So when you first started to see cloud evolved, What did you think? Did you think Oh, well, we'll see what happens. Or did you? Did you know at the time that this was gonna be a bigas? It actually has become. What were your thoughts back then? >>Well, I honestly, I thought that we are kind of agent. And maybe it's stupid to not to pie foot in tow, The new trends in technology like Cloud Mobile social and I we kept, you know, working on this computer vision technology that 15 years ago, war was not really hot. But with the evolution of self driving cars and the latest development in AI, we we've been able to capture our investments in the domain that was not hot. But suddenly, you know, became the word the of the greatest minds in I t. And we definitely we specialize Our computer vision toe a narrow use case, but still, it's the It's the key of what we've done in, uh, in the end, the robots are powered by computer vision technology. This kind of a robot emulate how human user work. So obviously we use vision a lot in our day by day work and having the best technology that allows our robots to interact with the computer screen more like human user is quintessential and, uh, making our business reliable and easy to use. So we were lucky. But I always felt that maybe I should change it. And we were feeling I remember you know, many discussions with my, you know, initial developers because we like what you're doing. What we felt a bit left outside my door. What way? Got lucky in the end. >>So So I have a premise here and that when you go back to the early days of cloud, what they got right was they were attacking the human labor problem and they automate it was storage. It was it was networking. It was compute. But really the automation that they brought toe i t. And the quality that that drove and the flexibility was, you know, a game changer. Of course, we know that now. And you know, many of us at the time were very excited about Cloud. I'm not sure we predicted the impact that it had, but my premise is that there's a parallel in your business with the automation that you're driving into the business. We've talked toe people, for instance, that some of your customers have said, You know I can't do Six Sigma. I can't afford to do six Sigma before things like R P. A. For business process. I do that for Mission critical things, but now I can apply six Sigma thinking across my entire business that drives quality. It takes costs out of my business. So what do you think about that premise? That there's a parallel between the early days of cloud taking human labor out of the equation and driving quality and flexibility, cost saving speed and revenue, etcetera and what you're doing on the business side, >>it is clearly a parallel. I can tell that the cloud was built by looking at ICTY Automation use cases first of all, because this is all software engineers understand the most software engineers. Let's be you little on this. They don't understand the business work. They don't understand all how the rial work is performing a big enterprise and they don't care. Sometimes when in my own discussions with our CFO, he is surprised that I don't know all the use cases in the world. Yes, of course. I don't know exactly how an insurance company work All the processes in a health care, all the banking processes. I have intellectual curiosity how they were. But what interests me the most is our computer vision technology that works uniformly well across different. That was the same from the cloud. So initially they built and they build a cow cloud one toe, help them when what they know the best. And now, for we were put in the face of having great technology, this computer region technology, but without having a great use case in the I t world that we understood. And when we when I'm speaking about our early days like 12, 13, 14, I believe this technology has a lot less applicable bility in the real world. Because again, we were thinking of some sorts of small I T automation gigs that were not possible just doing the AP ice. But when I discovered the messy world of business processes and how important is to emulate people when you think automation, that was a big ah ha moment. So I believe that we can do for business processes what the cloud has done for I t processes on. We are really patient now about this business processes on helping people toe eliminate all the repetitive work that is their delegate. This work two robots and have the people that are required to do this work do do better. A smaller number of tasks every day. Everyone has own, as on her or him played today like, let's say, 10, 20 different activities. Some of them can be completely delegated to rob to robots, and they are the low value type of activities, while they can focus on the high value activities like interaction with people, creativity, decision making and this type of human like things that we as humans really love. >>I love that you shared that story, but you thought it was a very narrow, sort of set of use cases when you first started and then, you know, that's that's just an awesome founders, you know, really ization. I love it when we've often said in the Cube that, you know, for decades we've marched to the tune of Moore's Law. That was the innovation engine. No longer is that case. It's a combination of of data, applied machine intelligence and cloud for scale. And I guess the computer vision pieces How you in just the data you've you've made some investments in a I and there's many more to come the industry in general and the cloud is sort of the piece of that equation that we see for scale. So I wonder how you see those pieces fitting to your business. Uh, and how important is the cloud for your scale? At last? Uh, at last year, I path forward. There was a lot of talk amongst your customers about scaling. Is the cloud critical for that scale? >>Yeah, I believe so. And we are thinking of clouds in tow. Distinct ways number one. We're offering Onda manage automation service in our own close, using where we host everything by ourselves, including our orchestrator, and then be next to have the plans to include our the robots that execute the automation And people simply can't connect to our cloud building automation and just scheduled to run without any maintainers. And they will have access to oh, great analytics, Everything integrated. So this is a major force to us, and the way we launching G a. This cloud offering in April this year, and I can tell you that until now, 20% of our customers already are in a shape or another in this type of offering, not 20% dollar amount, but 20% of our customers. And it's clear that at this point this has mawr applicability into the long tail, a smaller customers than in the on our biggest customers. But the second, this thing type of cloud offering that we focus on is toe have best in class support and best in class multi cloud support for the cloud of choice of our customers. For instance, if you go in if you go in a w, g, c, p usher and you buy a subscription there, you wear buildings. Specialized editions were with one click. You will be able to install our technology in those clouds and you'll be ableto scale up and down your robots. You can connect your robots to our many service were within your tenant, but basically the angle is toe lesson. Ah lot the administration, the maintainers footprint of your installation, either on our own cloud, even on your cloud of choice. I'm a strong believer that we will see an accelerated transition from the completely on Prem Workloads into these two source of cloud workloads. >>I wanna ask you, is a a technologist if you see. So you mentioned that you're gonna take your products and your support. Multiple clouds will run on any cloud in A lot of companies are talking about that, you know, for their respective whether it's a database or, you know, whatever storage device, etcetera. Do you see the day where you'll actually start? You're collaborating across clouds. Where the user, uh, maybe maybe the user today doesn't know, but maybe a developer does know which cloud it's running on. But do you see any value in actual, you know, connecting across clouds where the data and one cloud is relevant for the data? Another cloud is I know there are latent see issues. Is that you know, technically feasible. And is it it? Will it drive business value? What do you think about that cross cloud connection? >>I believe it is already happening. There is a mesh between between various services and who knows in which cloud they are awful. Already. I feel the Leighton see is less and less of a problem as much as the biggest cloud provider have have a very distributed geographically president. So as long as I can playing AWS in East Coast, on on Asia in East Coast, it's not such a big Leighton see issue. Uh huh. Frankly, in the past, our customers at least start telling us they seen how it is to be completely looking toe one technology on people would like Toa have optionality. It's not necessarily that I will use three clothes, but I would like to use the vendor that gives me optionally even. And this is what we're trying to offer. >>Do you, when you think about the future of work? I mean, e said before the cloud one dato was infrastructure storage, networking, computing Uh, it seems like to Dato we're bringing in more ai new workloads. We're seeing, you know, analytics and machine intelligence applied to the data and then, you know, distributed at scale self serve to the business. How do you see the future of work specifically as it relates toe automation affecting that, uh on you know what role does cloud play there? What's your vision? >>So as the workloads will move to cloud. It's absolutely critical that the processes will move to cloud, so there is no way back. I think, that moving in tow, moving from home for and software into cloud will make even easier toe automate this type of workloads into the cloud. It's gonna be less maintain us. You will deal less with legacy applications that require some special care. It's kind of a bit more easier to automate modern Onley, Web based type of application so that Z we'll see an acceleration on the moving to cloud. But again, there will be different sorts of cloud from a completely manage automation service from us toe managing yourself the automation in your cloud tenant, but not on prayer. I'm not a big believer that we will accept unless very few critical sectors I don't think that we will see home Primor roads in the past five years. >>I mean, I agree in this case, the business case for on Prem just gets, you know, less and less. I mean, it'll be a certain applications for sure. My last question is, when thinking about from a software developer standpoint, you obviously you're gonna wanna run in a W S and G, C P and Azure. Uh, perhaps Alibaba, Uh, do you look at other clouds? Whether their regional clouds, of course. You got your own cloud. Maybe Oracle. IBM. How do you think about those? Do you just sort of evaluated on a case by case basis? You let customers, you know, tell you where you need to be. >>Yeah, way focus on the on the three big clouds today, but we're building on the top off Q Burnett is most of our way. We have a big shift in tow building que Burnett is micro services. And my guess is that all mother clouds would offer fantastic support for kubernetes. So what What it takes when you create a new edition for another cloud is toe is toe have the underlying services. Like if we plan to use snowflake, for instance in our analytics offering, you better have snowflake in another cloud. Otherwise, probably the the analytics will will have toe be delayed or use a less of one part technology. So it's not only about what we are building, but it's also, you know, the vast availability of other set of technologies that we try toe use when you choose a technology. Now, first of all, we are looking. We need to choose something that is multi cloud. There's who's dedicated from one cloud vendor. That's that's our first priority. This is why I've mentioned snowflake and then when when we moved into a cloud. We are limited by the offerings that are there, but I my belief is in the main clouds, probably in the US I don't know one of the region's what's gonna happen, but in the main crowds in the U. S. In I believe that they will. In the end, they will catch up in terms off offering and convincing of other defenders toe have kind of kind of similar offering on their own. I don't know if, besides, the Big Three, or you'll see someone and that is able to compete could be too much fragmented. Maybe they will be dedicated clouds for certain services. But for General Cloud, I think three is more than enough. >>Yeah, and so, you know, in the early days of cloud, people talked about dial tone, and essentially, that's what's becoming. It's the it's the value that's running on top of the cloud from software companies like ey Path and others that is really driving. So the cloud to Dato the next generation Daniel Dennett is thanks so much for sharing your vision on participating in the Cuban cloud. Really appreciate it. >>My pleasure, Dave. Thank you so much for inviting. >>You're welcome. You always great to talk to you. And thank you for watching everybody keep it right there. We'll be back with our next guest right into this short break. This is Dave Volonte for the Cube. Yeah.

>>Hi, Oleg. So great of you to join us today. I'm really looking forward to our session. Eso Let's get started. So if I can get you to give a quick intro to yourself and then if you can share with us what you're going to be discussing today >>Hi, Jake. In my name is Oleg Elbow. I'm a product architect and the Doctor Enterprise Container Cloud team. Uh, today I'm going to talk about running kubernetes on bare metal with a container cloud. My goal is going to tell you about this exciting feature and why we think it's important and what we actually did to make it possible. >>Brilliant. Thank you very much. So let's get started. Eso from my understanding kubernetes clusters are typically run in virtual machines in clouds. So, for example, public cloud AWS or private cloud maybe open staff based or VM ware V sphere. So why why would you go off and run it on their mettle? >>Well, uh, the Doctor Enterprise container cloud already can run Coburn eighties in the cloud, as you know, and the idea behind the container clouds to enable us to manage multiple doctor enterprise clusters. But we want to bring innovation to kubernetes. And instead of spending a lot of resources on the hyper visor and virtual machines, we just go all in for kubernetes directly environmental. >>Fantastic. So it sounds like you're suggesting then to run kubernetes directly on their mettle. >>That's correct. >>Fantastic and without a hyper visor layer. >>Yes, we all know the reasons to run kubernetes and virtual machines it's in The first place is mutual mutual isolation off workloads, but virtualization. It comes with the performance, heat and additional complexity. Uh, another. And when Iran coordinated the director on the hardware, it's a perfect opportunity for developers. They can see performance boost up to 30% for certain container workloads. Uh, this is because the virtualization layer adds a lot off overhead, and even with things like enhanced placement awareness technologies like Numa or processor opinion, it's it's still another head. By skipping over the virtualization, we just remove this overhead and gained this boost. >>Excellent, though it sounds like 30% performance boost very appealing. Are there any other value points or positive points that you can pull out? >>Yes, Besides, the hyper visor over had virtual machines. They also have some static resource footprint. They take up the memory and CPU cycles and overall reintroduces the density of containers per host. Without virtual machines, you can run upto 16% more containers on the same host. >>Excellent. Really great numbers there. >>One more thing to point out directly. Use environmental makes it easier to use a special purpose hardware like graphic processors or virtual no virtual network functions for don't work interfaces or the field programmable gate arrays for custom circuits, Uh, and you can share them between containers more efficiently. >>Excellent. I mean, there's some really great value points you pulled out there. So 30% performance boost, 60% density boost on it could go off and support specialized hardware a lot easier. But let's talk about now. The applications. So what sort of applications do you think would benefit from this The most? >>Well, I'm thinking primarily high performance computations and deep learning will benefit, Uh, which is the more common than you might think of now they're artificial Intelligence is gripping into a lot off different applications. Uh, it really depends on memory capacity and performance, and they also use a special devices like F P G s for custom circuits widely sold. All of it is applicable to the machine learning. Really? >>And I mean, that whole ai piece is I mean, really exciting. And we're seeing this become more commonplace across a whole host of sectors. So you're telcos, farmers, banking, etcetera. And not just I t today. >>Yeah, that's indeed very exciting. Uh, but creating communities closer environmental, unfortunately, is not very easy. >>Hope so it sounds like there may be some challenges or complexities around it. Ondas this, I guess. The reason why there's not many products then out there today for kubernetes on their metal on baby I like. Could you talk to us then about some of the challenges that this might entail? >>Well, there are quite a few challenges first, and for most, there is no one way to manage governmental infrastructures Nowadays. Many vendors have their solutions that are not always compatible with each other and not necessarily cover all aspects off this. Um So we've worked an open source project called metal cube metal cooped and integrated it into the doctor Enterprise Container Cloud To do this unified bar middle management for us. >>And you mentioned it I hear you say is that open source? >>There is no project is open source. We had a lot of our special sauce to it. Um, what it does, Basically, it enables us to manage the hardware servers just like a cloud server Instances. >>And could you go? I mean, that's very interesting, but could you go into a bit more detail and specifically What do you mean? As cloud instances, >>of course they can. Generally, it means to manage them through some sort of a p I or programming interface. Uh, this interface has to cover all aspects off the several life cycle, like hardware configuration, operating system management network configuration storage configuration, Uh, with help off Metal cube. We extend the carbonated C p i to enable it to manage bare metal hosts. And aled these suspects off its life cycle. The mental que project that's uses open stack. Ironic on. Did it drops it in the Cuban. It s a P I. And ironic does all the heavy lifting off provisioned. It does it in a very cloud native way. Uh, it configures service using cloud they need, which is very familiar to anyone who deals with the cloud and the power is managed transparently through the i p my protocol on. But it does a lot to hide the differences between different hardware hosts from the user and in the Doctor Enterprise Container Cloud. We made everything so the user doesn't really feel the difference between bare metal server and cloud VM. >>So, Oleg, are you saying that you can actually take a machine that's turned off and turn it on using the commands? >>That's correct. That's the I. P M I. R Intelligent platform management interface. Uh, it gives you an ability to interact directly with the hardware. You can manager monitor things like power, consumption, temperature, voltage and so on. But what we use it for is to manage the food source and the actual power state of the server. So we have a group of service that are available and we can turn them on. And when we need them, just if we were spinning the VM >>Excellent. So that's how you get around the fact that while aled cloud the ends of the same, the hardware is all different. But I would assume you would have different server configurations in one environment So how would you get around that? >>Uh, yeah, that Zatz. Excellent questions. So some elements of the berm mental management the FBI that we developed, they are specifically to enable operators toe handle wider range of hardware configurations. For example, we make it possible to consider multiple network interfaces on the host. We support flexible partitioning off hard disks and other storage devices. We also make it possible thio boot remote live using the unified extended firmware interface for modern systems. Or just good old bias for for the legacy ones. >>Excellent. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for sharing that that. Now let's take a look at the rest of the infrastructure and eggs. So what about things like networking and storage house that managed >>Oh, Jakey, that's some important details. So from the networking standpoint, the most important thing for kubernetes is load balancing. We use some proven open source technologies such a Zengin ICS and met a little bit to handle. Handle that for us and for the storage. That's ah, a bit more tricky part. There are a lot off different stories. Solutions out. There s o. We decided to go with self and ah cooperator for self self is very much your and stable distributed stories system. It has incredible scalability. We actually run. Uh, pretty big clusters in production with chef and rock makes the life cycle management for self very robust and cloud native with health shaking and self correction. That kind of stuff. So any kubernetes cluster that Dr Underprice Container Cloud provision for environmental Potentially. You can have the self cluster installed self installed in this cluster and provide stories that is accessible from any node in the cluster to any port in the cluster. So that's, uh, called Native Storage components. Native storage. >>Wonderful. But would that then mean that you'd have to have additional hardware so mawr hardware for the storage cluster, then? >>Not at all. Actually, we use Converse storage architecture in the current price container cloud and the workloads and self. They share the same machines and actually managed by the same kubernetes cluster A. Some point in the future, we plan to add more fully, even more flexibility to this, uh, self configuration and enable is share self, where all communities cluster will use a single single self back, and that's that's not the way for us to optimize our very basically. >>Excellent. So thanks for covering the infrastructure part. What would be good is if we can get an understanding them for that kind of look and feel, then for the operators and the users of the system. So what can they say? >>Yeah, the case. We know Doc Enterprise Container Cloud provides a web based user interface that is, uh, but enables to manage clusters. And the bare metal management actually is integrated into this interface and provides provides very smooth user experience. A zone operator, you need to add or enrolled governmental hosts pretty much the same way you add cloud credentials for any other for any other providers for any other platforms. >>Excellent. I mean, Oleg, it sounds really interesting. Would you be able to share some kind of demo with us? It be great to see this in action. Of >>course. Let's let's see what we have here. So, >>uh, thank you. >>Uh, so, first of all, you take a bunch of governmental service and you prepare them, connect and connect them to the network is described in the dogs and bootstrap container cloud on top of these, uh, three of these bare metal servers. Uh, once you put through, you have the container cloud up and running. You log into the u I. Let's start here. And, uh, I'm using the generic operator user for now. Its's possible to integrate it with your in the entity system with the customer and the entity system and get real users there. Mhm. So first of all, let's create a project. It will hold all off our clusters. And once we created it, just switched to it. And the first step for an operator is to add some burr metal hosts of the project. As you see it empty, uh, toe at the berm. It'll host. You just need a few parameters. Uh, name that will allow you to identify the server later. Then it's, ah, user name and password to access the IBM. My controls off the server next on, and it's very important. It's the hardware address off the first Internet port. It will be used to remotely boot the server over network. Uh, finally, that Z the i p address off the i p m i n point and last, but not the least. It's the bucket, uh, toe Assign the governmental host to. It's a label that is assigned to it. And, uh, right now we offer just three default labels or buckets. It's, ah, manager, manager, hosts, worker hosts and storage hosts. And depending on the hardware configuration of the server, you assign it to one of these three groups. You will see how it's used later in the phone, so note that least six servers are required to deploy managed kubernetes cluster. Just as for for the cloud providers. Um, there is some information available now about the service is the result of inspection. By the way, you can look it up. Now we move. Want to create a cluster, so you need to provide the name for the cluster. Select the release off Dr Enterprise Engine and next next step is for provider specific information. You need to specify the address of the Class three guy and point here, and the range of feathers is for services that will be installed in the cluster. The user war close um kubernetes Network parameter school be changed as well, but the defaults are usually okay. Now you can enable or disable stack light the monitoring system for the Burnett's cluster and provide some parameters to eat custom parameters. Uh, finally you click create to create the cluster. It's an empty cluster that we need to add some machines to. So we need a least three manager notes. The form is very simple. You just select the roll off the community snowed. It's either manager of worker Onda. You need to select this label bucket from which the environmental hospital we picked. We go with the manager label for manager notes and work your label for the workers. Uh, while question is deploying, let's check out some machine information. The storage data here, the names off the disks are taken from the environmental host Harbor inspection data that we checked before. Now we wait for servers to be deployed. Uh, it includes ah, operating system, and the government is itself. So uh, yeah, that's that's our That's our you user interface. Um, if operators need to, they can actually use Dr Enterprise Container Container cloud FBI for some more sophisticated, sophisticated configurations or to integrate with an external system, for example, configuration database. Uh, all the burr mental tasks they just can be executed through the carbonated C. P. I and by changing the custom resources customer sources describing the burr mental notes and objects >>Mhm, brilliant. Well, thank you for bringing that life. It's always good. Thio See it in action. I guess from my understanding, it looks like the operators can use the same tools as develops or developers but for managing their infrastructure, then >>yes, Exactly. For example, if you're develops and you use lands, uh, to monitor and manage your cluster, uh, the governmental resources are just another set of custom resources for you. Uh, it is possible to visualize and configure them through lands or any other developer to for kubernetes. >>Excellent. So from what I can see, that really could bridge the gap, then between infrastructure operators on develops and developer teams. Which is which is a big thing? >>Yes, that's that's Ah, one of our aspirations is to unify the user experience because we've seen a lot of these situations when infrastructure is operated by one set of tools and the container platform uses agnostic off it end users and offers completely different set of tools. So as a develops, you have to be proficient in both, and that's not very sustainable for some developers. Team James. >>Sure. Okay, well, thanks for covering that. That's great. E mean, there's obviously other container platforms out there in the market today. It would be great if you could explain only one of some of the differences there and in how Dr Enterprise Container Cloud approaches bare metal. >>Yeah, that's that's a That's an excellent question, Jake. Thank you. So, uh, in container cloud in the container Cloud Burr Mental management Unlike another container platforms, Burr metal management is highly and is tightly integrated in the in the product. It's integrated on the U and the A p I, and on the back and implementation level. Uh, other platforms typically rely on the user to provision in the ber metal hosts before they can deploy kubernetes on it. Uh, this leaves the operating system management hardware configuration hardware management mostly with dedicated infrastructure greater steam. Uh, Dr Enterprise Container Cloud might help to reduce this burden and this infrastructure management costs by just automated and effectively removing the part of responsibility from the infrastructure operators. And that's because container cloud on bare metal is essentially full stack solution. It includes the hardware configuration covers, operating system lifecycle management, especially, especially the security updates or C e updates. Uh, right now, at this point, the only out of the box operating system that we support is you, Bhutto. We're looking to expand this, and, as you know, the doctor Enterprise engine. It makes it possible to run kubernetes on many different platforms, including even Windows. And we plan to leverage this flexibility in the doctor enterprise container cloud full extent to expand this range of operating systems that we support. >>Excellent. Well, Oleg, we're running out of time. Unfortunately, I mean, I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. You've pulled out some excellent points you talked about potentially up to a 30% performance boost up to 60% density boost. Um, you've also talked about how it can help with specialized hardware and make this a lot easier. Um, we also talked about some of the challenges that you could solve, obviously, by using docker enterprise container clouds such as persistent storage and load balancing. There's obviously a lot here, but thank you so much for joining us today. It's been fantastic. And I hope that we've given some food for thoughts to go out and try and deployed kubernetes on Ben. It'll so thanks. So leg >>Thank you for coming. BJ Kim

>>welcome to the session. Long live swarm with containers and kubernetes everywhere we have this increasing cloud complexity at the same time that we're facing economic uncertainty and, of course, to navigate this. For most companies, it's a matter of focusing on speed and on shipping and iterating their code faster. Now. For many, Marantz is customers. That means using docker swarm rather than kubernetes to handle container orchestration. We really believe that the best way to increase your speed to production is choice, simplicity and security. So we wanted to bring you a couple of experts to talk about the state of swarm and Docker enterprise and how you can make best use of both of you. So let's get to it. Well, good afternoon or good morning, depending on where you are on and welcome to today's session. Long live swarm. I am Nick Chase. I'm head of content here at Mantis and I would like to introduce you to our two Panelists today eight of Manzini. Why don't you introduce yourself? >>I am a van CNI. I'm a solutions architect here at Moran Tous on work primarily with Docker Enterprise System. I have a long history of working with support team. Um, at what used to be Ah Docker Enterprise, part of Docker Inc. >>Yeah, Okay. Great. And Don Power. >>I, um Yeah, I'm Don Power on the docker. Captain Docker, community leader. Right now I run our Dev Ops team for Citizens Bank out of Nashville, Tennessee, and happy to be here. >>All right, Excellent. So All right, so thank you both for coming. Now, before we say anything else, I want to go ahead and kind of name the elephant in the room. There's been a lot of talk about the >>future. Yeah, that's right. Um, swarm as it stands right now, um, we have, ah, very vested interest in keeping our customers on who want to continue using swarm, functional and keeping swarm a viable alternative or complement to kubernetes. However you see the orchestration war playing out as it were. >>Okay? It's hardly a war at this point, but they do work together, and so that's >>absolutely Yeah, I I definitely consider them more of like, complimentary services, um, using the right tool for the job. Sort of sense. They both have different design goals when they were originally created and set out so I definitely don't see it as a completely one or the other kind of decision and that they could both be used in the same environment and similar clusters to run whatever workload that you have. >>Excellent. And we'll get into the details of all that as we go along. So that's terrific. So I have not really been involved in in the sort of swarm area. So set the stage for us where we kind of start out with all of this. Don I know that you were involved and so guys said, set the stage for us. >>Sure, Um I mean so I've been a heavy user of swarm in my past few roles. Professionally, we've been running containers in production with Swarm for coming up on about four years. Now, Um, in our case, we you know, we looked at what was available at the time, and of course you had. Kubernetes is your biggest contender out there, but like I just mentioned, the one of the things that really led us to swarm is it's design goals were very different than kubernetes. So Kubernetes tries to have an answer for absolutely every scenario where swarm tries to have an answer for, like, the 80% of problems or challenges will say that you might come across 80% of the workloads. Um, I had a better way of saying that, but I think I got my point across >>E Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. Um, Kubernetes in particular with the way that kubernetes itself is an a P I I believe that kubernetes was, um, you know, written as a toolkit. It wasn't really intended to be used by end users directly. It was really a way to build platforms that run containers. And because it's this really, really extensible ap I you can extend it to manage all sorts of resource is swarm doesn't have that X sensibility aspect, but what it was designed to do, it does very, very well and very easily in a very, very simple sort of way. Um, it's highly opinionated about the way that you should use the product, but it works very effectively. It's very easy to use. It's very low. Um, not low effort, but low. Ah, low barrier to entry. >>Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I was gonna touch on the same thing. It's very easy for someone to come in. Pick up swarm. You know they don't They don't have to know anything about the orchestrator on day one. Most people that are getting into this space are very familiar with Docker. Compose um, and entering from Docker compose into swarm is changing one command that you would run on the command line. >>Yeah, very, very trivial to if you are already used to building docker files using composed, organize your deployment into stacks of related components. It's trivial to turn on swarm mode and then deploy your container set to a cluster. >>Well, excellent. So answer this question for me. Is the swarm of today the same as the swarm of, you know, the original swarm. So, like when swim first started is that the same is what we have now >>it's kind of ah, complicated story with the storm project because it's changed names and forms a few times. Originally in is really somewhere around 2014 in the first version, and it was a component that you really had to configure and set up separately from Docker Ah, the way that it was structured. Ah, you would just have docker installed on a number of servers are machines in your cluster. And then you would organize them into a swarm by bringing your own database and some of the tooling to get those nodes talking to each other and to organize your containers across all of your docker engines. Ah, few years later, the swarm project was retooled and baked into the docker engine. And, um, this is where we sort of get the name change from. So originally it was a feature that we called swarm. Ah. Then the Swarm Kit project was released on Get Hub and baked directly into the engine, where they renamed it as swarm mode. Because now it is a motile option that you just turn on as a button in the docker engine and because it's already there the, um, the tuning knobs that you haven't swarm kit with regard to how what my time outs are and some of these other sort of performance settings there locked there, they're there. It's part of the opinionated set of components that builds up the docker engine is that we bring in the Swarm Kit project with a certain set of defaults and settings. And that is how it operates in today's version of Docker engine. >>Uh, okay for that, that makes sense. That makes sense. So ah, so don, I know you have pretty strong feelings about this topic, but it is swarm still viable in a world that's sort of increasingly dominated by Kubernetes. >>Absolutely. And you were right. I'm very passionate about this topic where I work. We're we're doing almost all of our production work lives on swarm we only have out of Ah, we've got something like 600 different services between three and 4000 containers. At any given point in time. Out of all of those projects, all of those services we've only run into two or three that don't kind of fit into the opinionated model of swarm. So we are running those on KUBERNETES in the same cluster using Moranis is Docker enterprise offering. But, um, no, that's a very, very small percentage of services that we didn't have an answer for in swarm with one. The one case that really gets us just about every time is scaling state full services. But you're gonna have very few staple services in most environments for things like micro service architecture, which is predominantly what we build out. Swarm is perfect. It's simple. It's easy to use you, don't you? Don't end up going for miles of yamma files trying to figure out the one setting that you didn't get exactly right? Um yeah, the other Thea the other big piece of it that way really led us to adopting it so heavily in the beginning is, you know, the overlay network. So your networks don't have to span the whole cluster like they do with kubernetes. So we could we could set up a network isolation between service A and service B, just by use using the built in overlay networks. That was a huge component that, like I said, let us Teoh adopting it so heavily when we first got started. >>Excellent. You look like you're about to say something in a >>Yeah, I think that speaks to the design goals for each piece of software. On the way that I've heard this described before is with regard to the networking piece the ah, the docker networking under the hood, um, feels like it was written by a network engineer. The way that the docker engine overlay networks communicate uses ah, VX lan under the hood, which creates pseudo V lands for your containers. And if two containers aren't on the same Dylan, there's no way they can communicate with each other as opposed to the design of kubernetes networking, which is really left to the C and I implementation but still has the design philosophy of one big, flat sub net where every I p could reach every other i p and you control what is allowed to access, what by policy. So it's more of an application focused Ah design. Whereas in Docker swarm on the overlay networking side, it's really of a network engineering sort of focus. Right? >>Okay, got it. Well, so now how does all this fit in with Docker enterprise now? So I understand there's been some changes on how swarm is handled within Docker Enterprise. Coming with this new release, >>Docker s O swarm Inside Docker Enterprise is represented as both the swarm classic legacy system that we shift way back in 2014 on and then also the swarm mode that is curly used in the docker engine. Um, the Swarm Classic back end gives us legacy support for being able to run unmanaged plane containers onto a cluster. If you were to take Docker ce right now, you would find that you wouldn't be able to just do a very basic docker run against a whole cluster of machines. You can create services using the swarms services, a p I but, um, that that legacy plane container support is something that you have to set up external swarm in order to provide. So right now, the architecture of Docker Enterprise UCP is based on some of that legacy code from about five or six years ago. Okay. Ah, that gives us ability to deploy plane containers for use cases that require it as well as swarm services for those kinds of workloads that might be better served by the built in load balancing and h A and scaling features that swarm provides. >>Okay, so now I know that at one point kubernetes was deployed within Docker Enterprise as you create a swarm cluster and then deploy kubernetes on top of swarm. >>Correct? That is how the current architecture works. >>Okay. All right. And then, um what is what is where we're going with this like, Are we supposed to? Are we going to running Swarm on top of kubernetes? What's >>the the design goals for the future of swarm within branches? Stocker Enterprise are that we will start the employing Ah, like kubernetes cluster features as the base and a swarm kit on top of kubernetes. So it is like you mentioned just a reversal of the roles. I think we're finding that, um, the ability to extend kubernetes a p I to manage resource is is valuable at an infrastructure and platform level in a way that we can't do with swarm. We still want to be able to run swarm workloads. So we're going to keep the swarm kit code the swarm kit orchestration features to run swarm services as a part of the platform to keep the >>got it. Okay, so, uh, if I'm a developer and I want to run swarm, but my company's running kubernetes what? What are my one of my options there? Well, I think >>eight touched on it pretty well already where you know, it depends on your design goals, and you know, one of the other things that's come up a few times is Thea. The level of entry for for swarm is much, much simpler than kubernetes. So I mean, it's it's kind of hard to introduce anything new. So I mean, a company, a company that's got most of their stuff in kubernetes and production is gonna have a hard time maybe looking at a swarm. I mean, this is gonna be, you know, higher, higher up, not the boots on the ground. But, um, you know, the the upper management, that's at some point, you have to pay for all their support, all of it. What we did in our approach. Because there was one team already using kubernetes. We went ahead and stood up a small cluster ah, small swarm cluster and taught the developers how to use it and how to deploy code to it. And they loved it. They thought it was super simple. A time went on, the other teams took notice and saw how fast these guys were getting getting code deployed, getting services up, getting things usable, and they would look over at what the innovation team was doing and say, Hey, I I want to do that to, uh, you know, so there's there's a bunch of different approaches. That's the approach we took and it worked out very well. It looks like you wanted to say something too. >>Yeah, I think that if you if you're if you're having to make this kind of decision, there isn't There isn't a wrong choice. Ah, it's never a swarm of its role and your organization, right? Right. If you're if you're an individual and you're using docker on your workstation on your laptop but your organization wants to standardize on kubernetes there, there are still some two rules that Mike over Ah, pose. And he's manifest if you need to deploy. Coop resource is, um if you are running Docker Enterprise Swarm kit code will still be there. And you can run swarm services as regular swarm workloads on that component. So I I don't want to I don't want people to think that they're going to be like, locked into one or the other orchestration system. Ah, there the way we want to enable developer choice so that however the developer wants to do their work, they can get it done. Um Docker desktop. Ah, ships with that kubernetes distribution bundled in it. So if you're using a Mac or Windows and that's your development, uh, system, you can run docker debt, turn on your mode and run the kubernetes bits. So you have the choices. You have the tools to deploy to either system. >>And that's one of the things that we were super excited about when they introduced Q. Burnett ease into the Docker Enterprise offering. So we were able to run both, so we didn't have to have that. I don't want to call it a battle or argument, but we didn't have to make anybody choose one or the other. We, you know, we gave them both options just by having Docker enterprise so >>excellent. So speaking of having both options, let's just say for developers who need to make a decision while should I go swarm, or should I go kubernetes when it sort of some of the things that they should think about? >>So I think that certain certain elements of, um, certain elements of containers are going to be agnostic right now. So the the the designing a docker file and building a container image, you're going to need to know that skill for either system that you choose to operate on. Ah, the swarm value. Some of the storm advantage comes in that you don't have to know anything beyond that. So you don't have to learn a whole new A p I a whole new domain specific language using Gamel to define your deployment. Um, chances are that if you've been using docker for any length of time, you probably have a whole stack of composed files that are related to things that you've worked on. And, um, again, the barrier to entry to getting those running on swarm is very low. You just turn it on docker stack, deploy, and you're good to go. So I think that if you're trying to make that choice, if you I have a use case that doesn't require you to manage new resource is if you don't need the Extensible researchers part, Ah, swarm is a great great, great viable option. >>Absolutely. Yeah, the the recommendation I've always made to people that are just getting started is start with swarm and then move into kubernetes and going through the the two of them, you're gonna figure out what fits your design principles. What fits your goals. Which one? You know which ones gonna work best for you. And there's no harm in choosing one or the other using both each one of you know, very tailor fit for very various types of use cases. And like I said, kubernetes is great at some things, but for a lot of other stuff, I still want to use swarm and vice versa. So >>on my home lab, for all my personal like services that I run in my, uh, my home network, I used storm, um, for things that I might deploy onto, you know, a bit this environment, a lot of the ones that I'm using right now are mainly tailored for kubernetes eso. I think especially some of the tools that are out there in the open source community as well as in docker Enterprise helped to bridge that gap like there's a translator that can take your compose file, turn it into kubernetes. Yeah, Mel's, um, if if you're trying to decide, like on the business side, should we standardize on former kubernetes? I think like your what? What functionality are you looking at? Out of getting out of your system? If you need things like tight integration into a ah infrastructure vendor such as AWS Azure or VM ware that might have, like plug ins for kubernetes. You're now you're getting into that area where you're managing Resource is of the infrastructure with your orchestration. AP I with kube so things like persistent volumes can talk to your storage device and carve off chunks of storage and assign those two pods if you don't have that need or that use case. Um, you know, KUBERNETES is bringing in a lot of these features that you maybe you're just not taking advantage of. Um, similarly, if you want to take advantage of things like auto scaling to scale horizontally, let's say you have a message queue system and then a number of workers, and you want to start scaling up on your workers. When your CPU hits a certain a metric. That is something that Kubernetes has built right into it. And so, if you want that, I would probably suggest that you look at kubernetes if you don't need that, or if you want to write some of that tooling yourself. Swarm doesn't have an object built into it that will do automatic horizontal scaling based on some kind of metric. So I always consider this decision as a what features are the most I available to you and your business that you need to Yep. >>All right. Excellent. Well, and, ah, fortunately, of course, they're both available on Docker Enterprise. So aren't we lucky? All right, so I am going to wrap this up. I want to thank Don Bauer Docker captain, for coming here and spending some time with us and eight of Manzini. I would like to thank you. I know that the the, uh, circumstances are less than ideal here for your recording today, but we appreciate you joining us. Um and ah, both of you. Thank you very much. And I want to invite all of you. First of all, thank you for joining us. We know your time is valuable and I want to invite you all Teoh to take a look at Docker Enterprise. Ah, follow the link that's on your screen and we'll see you in the next session. Thank you all so much. Thank you. >>Thank you, Nick.

right so with kubernetes the history is we started off with only file systems block is something very new within the past couple releases that actually personally worked on the next piece that we're doing at Red Hat is leading the charge to create CRTs for object storage so it's defining those api's so customers can dynamically provision and manage their object storage with that in addition we recently acquired a company called nuba that does exactly that they're able to have that data mobility through object buckets across many clouds doing the sharding and replication with the ability to do and that's super important because it opens up for our customers to have image streams photos things like that that they typically use within an enterprise and quickly move the data and copy it as they as they need to so we notice that that more and more people want to try their workloads outside of the centralized one centralized data cluster so the big you know term for the last year was the hybrid cloud but it's not just hybrid cloud people coming from also from the iot user space wants to you know containerize their work clothes what wants to put the processing closer and closer to the devices that are actually producing and consuming those data in the users and there is a lot of use cases which should be tackled in in that way and as you all said previously like you Burnett is want developers hearts and minds so api's are stable everybody is using them it will be supported for decades so it's it's natural to try to bring all these tools and and all these platforms that are already you know available to developers try to tackle these new new challenges so that's why last year we reformed the kubernetes at the edge working group trying to you know start with the simple questions because when people come to you and say edge everybody thinks something different from somebody it's in IOT gateway for somebody it's a it's a full-blown you know kubernetes faster it's some telco providers so that's what we're trying to figure out all these and try to form a community because as we saw in the previous cell so for the IOT user space is that complex problems like these are never basically solved by single single company you need open source you need open standards you need the community around it so that people can pick and choose and build a solution to fit their needs yeah yeah so I care a lot about diversity in tech and women in tech more specifically one of the things that I I feel like this community has a lot of very visible women so when I actually looked at the number of contributors by by men and women I was really shocked to find out it was 3 percents it's kind of disappointing it's 3 percent of all the contributors to the all the projects in the CNCs it's only if you look at the 36 projects you look at the number of the people who've made issues commits comments pull requests it's 3 percent women and I think the CSUF has put a lot of effort into the for example of the diversity scholarships so bringing more than 300 people from underrepresented groups to cube corn including 56 here in Barcelona and it has a personal meaning to me because I really got my start through that diversity scholarship to keep calm Berlin two years ago and when I first came to keep on Berlin I knew nobody but just that little first step can go a long way into getting people into feeling like they're part of the community and they have something valuable to give back and then once you're in you're hooked on it and yeah then there's a lot of fun I think the ecosystem may finally be ready for it and this is I feel like it's easy for us to look at examples of the past you know people kind of shake their heads and OpenStack as a cautionary tale or sprawl and you know whatnot but this is a thriving which means growing which means changing which means a very busy ecosystem but like you're pointing out if your enterprises are gonna adopt some of this technology gee they look at it and everyone here was you know eating cupcakes or whatever for the kubernetes 5th birthday to an enterprise just because this got launched in 2014 you know ok June 2014 that sounds kind of new we're still running that mainframe that is still producing business value and actually that's fine I mean I think this maybe is one of the great things about a company like Microsoft is we are our customers like we also respect the fact that if something works you don't just Yolo a new thing out into production to replace it for what reason what is the business value of replacing it and I think for this that's why this kind of UNIX philosophy of the very modular pieces of this ecosystem and we were talking about how them a little earlier but there's also you know draft brigade you know etc like the porter the C NAB spec implementation stuff and this cloud native application bundles which that's a whole mouthful one of the things I like I've been a long history and open source too is if there are things that aren't perfect or things that are maturing a lot of times we're talking about them in public because there is a roadmap and you know people are working on it and we can all go to the repositories and you know see where people are complaining so at a show like this I feel like we do have some level of transparency and we can actually have realism here we I don't think we hear that as much anymore because there is no more barrier to getting the technology it's no longer I get this technology from vendor a and I wish somebody else would support the standard it's like I can get it if I want it I think the competition we typically have aren't about features anymore they're simply my business is driven by software let that's the way I interact with my customer that's the way I collect data for my customers whatever that is I need to do that faster and I need to teach my people to do that stuff so the technology becomes secondary like I have this saying it frustrates people so nice but I'm like there is not a CEO a CIO a CTO that you would talk to that wakes up and says I have a kubernetes problem they all go I have a I have this business problem I have that problem it happens to be software kubernetes is a detail sure I think the NSM is just a first step so the natural service is basically doing a couple of things one is it is simplifying networking so that the consumption paradigm is similar to what you see on the developer l7 layer so if you think SEO and how SEO is changing the game in terms of how you consume layer seven services think of bringing that down to the layer two layer three layer as well so the way a developer would discover services at the l7 layer is the same way we would want developers to discover networking endpoints or networking services or security capabilities that's number one so the language in which you consume needs to be simplified whereas it's whereby it becomes simple for developer to consume the second thing that I touched upon is we don't want developers to think about switches routers subnets BGP reacts van VLAN for me I want to take a little bit more into the idea of multi cloud I've been making a bit of a stink for the past year with a talk called the myths of multi cloud where it's not something I generally advise as a best practice and I'm holding to that fairly well but what I want to do is I won't have conversations with people who are pursuing multi-cloud strategies and figure out first are they in fact pursuing that the same thing that we're defining our terms and talking on the same page and secondly I want to get a little more context and insight into why they're doing that and what that looks like for them is it they want to be able to run different workloads in different places great that's fair the same workload run everywhere the lowest common denominator well let's scratch build a surface a bit and find out why that is bob wise and his team spent a ton of time working on the community and the whole the whole team does right for one of the the biggest contributors to @cd we're hosting birds of a feather we've committed we've contributed back to a fair amount of community projects and I think a lot of them are in fact around how to just make kubernetes work better on AWS and that might be something that we built because uks or it might be something like the like cluster autoscaler right which ultimately people would like to work better with with auto-scaling groups I think we we had the community involvement but I think it's about having a quiet community involvement right that it's it's about chopping wood and carrying water and being present and committing and showing up and having experts and answering questions and being present and things like say groups than it is necessarily having the biggest booth so Joe tremendous progress in five years look look forward for us a little bit you know what what what does you know kubernetes you know 2024 look like for us well you know a lot of folks like to say that you know in five years kubernetes is going to disappear and sometimes they come at this from the sort of snarky angle but other times I think you know it's gonna disappear in terms of like it's gonna be so boring so solid so assumed that people don't talk about it anymore I mean we're here at you know something that you know the the CNC F is part of the Linux Foundation which is great but you know how often do people really focus on the Linux kernel these days it is so boring so solid there's new stuff going on but like clearly all the exciting stuff all the action all the innovation is happening at higher layers and I think we're gonna see something similar happen with kubernetes over time exciting is being here if you rewind five years and tell me I'm ready in Barcelona with with 7,500 of my best friends I would think you were crazy or from Mars this is amazing and I thank everybody who's here who's made this thing possible we have a ton of work to do you know if you feel like you can't figure out what you need to work on come talk to me and we'll figure it out yet for me I just want to give a big thank you to all the maintain a nurse folks like Tim but also you know some other folks who you may not know their name but they're the ones slogging it out and to get up PRQ you know trying to just you know make the project's work in function day today and we're it not for their ongoing efforts we wouldn't have any of this you [Music]

>> Live from San Diego, California It's the queue covering Sisqo Live US 2019 Tio by Cisco and its ecosystem. Barker's >> Welcome Back to San Diego. Everybody watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This day. One of our coverage of Sisqo Live 2019 from San Diego. I'm Dave a lot with my co host to minimum. Lisa Martin is also here. Kip Compton is the senior vice president of Cisco's Cloud Platform and Solutions, and he's joined by Fabio Gori was the senior director of Cloud Solutions Marketing. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >> Thanks. Great to be here having us. >> You're very welcome, Fabio. So, Kip, Let's start with you. I want to start with a customer perspective. People are transforming. Cloud is part of that innovation cocktail, if you will. Absolutely. How would you summarize your customers? Cloud strategies? >> Well, I mean, in one word, I'd say Multi cloud, and it's what I've been saying for some time. Is Custer's air really expanding into the cloud and it really expanding into multiple clouds? And what's driving that is the need to take advantage of the innovation in the economics that are offered in the various clouds, and we sit like to say that they're expanding into the cloud because for the vast majority, their coast of our coasters, they have data centers. They're going to continue to have data centers. Nothing's going to keep running in those data centers now. What's happening is they thought it would be easy to start with everyone here. CEO Chuck likes to talk about, however, and thought they just moved to the cloud like moving to another neighborhood. Everything would be great. Well, when they're multiple clouds, you leaving some stuff on him. All of a sudden, what was supposed to be simple and easy becomes quite complex. >> Yeah, I've often said Well, multi club was kind of a symptom of multi vendor. But what you're saying is, essentially, it's it's becoming horses for courses, the workload matching the workload with the best cloud to solve that problem. >> I think it's a feature not above. I think it's here to stay. >> So how is that informing your strategy is Cisco? >> Well, you know, we're very customer responsive, and we see this problem and we look at how we can solve it and what customs have told us is that they want access to the different innovation in these different clouds and the different economic offers in each of these clouds. But they want to do it with less complexity, and they want to do it with less friction. And there's a bunch of areas where they're not looking for innovation. They don't need things work differently in networking. They want one way for networking to work across the multiple clouds and, frankly, to integrate with their own primus. Well. Likewise, for Security. A lot of Custer's air a little freaked out by the idea that there be different security regimes in every cloud that they use and maybe even different than what they already have on him. So they want that to be connected and to work management an application lifecycle. They're worried about that. They're like they don't want it to be different in every single cloud. A map Dynamics is a great example of an asset here. We got strong feedback for our customers that they needed to be able to measure the application performance in a common way across the environments. When imagine going to your CEO and talking about the performance of applications and having different metrics. 2,000,000,000 where it's hosted. It doesn't make any sense in terms of getting business insights. So I've dynamics is another example of something that Custer's one across all of that. So we really see Cisco's role is bringing all of those common capabilities and really reducing the complexity and friction of multi Cobb, enabling our customers to really take the most advantage possible. Multiple cloud. >> So Fabio kept talked about how moving to cloud is a little bit more complex than moving house from one neighborhood to the other. What are some of the key challenges that you guys are seeing? And how specifically is Cisco helping to ameliorate some of those challenges? >> Well, there are some challenges that are squarely in the camp where we can help. Others are related, and probably they're the toughest in clouds to fundamentally acquisition of talent. Right way can help with our custom off course with our partner ecosystem in this case, but a lot of that is really the culture of the company needs to change, right? We keep talking about develops way, keep talking about what does he mean operating this infrastructure in the cloud. It's a whole different ballgame, right? It's a continues integration, continues. Development is actually moving toe agile, kind of softer. The album models. And, you know, I very often do the analogy or what we've seen a few years ago in the data center space where we so actually, the end off the super specialization, like people on Lino in storage, all innit, working on ly computing. And then we saw the rise of people fundamentally expert in in the entire stack. We're seeing the same in the cloud with the rise of the Cloud Architect. These guys now are the ones they're behind building Cloud Centre of excellence. The issue. If you want guidance, where's the control remains into the other team's right. But this is very, very important. So it's overcoming, overcoming the talent gap and knowing how to deal with that on the bottom of that on the other side, so you get a free economy is technology challenges. For instance, embracing Q Burnett is becomes an embracing open source is a big, big challenge, right? You've gotta be able to master this kind of science if you want and trusting partners like, for instance, ourselves and others that will give you a curated versions of the softer image in life. Very often do customer meetings, and I ask how many how many tools to use in production for your Cuban Embassy plantation? And the answer ranges from 20 to 25. It's crazy, right? So imagine if 12 or three of these stools go away. What are you going to do? So you know, it's it's a whole different ball game really going to go into this kind of world. So Kip, we understand >> today, customers are multi cloud and future. It's going to be multi cloud. Think So. >> How do we make >> sure that multi cloud doesn't become least Domine, Denominator Cloud? Or, you know, you really say All I have is this combination of a bunch of pieces like the old multi vendor. How does multi cloud become more powerful than just the sum of its components? Is a good question, and we've really, I mean, way support a lot of different ways of accessing a cloud, Francisco, because we have such a broad Custer base and our goal is really to support our customers. However, they want to work. But we have made a bet in terms of avoiding the lowest common denominator on DH. Some people look ATT, accessing multiple clouds as sort of laying down one software platform and writing their software to one set of AP eyes that they didn't somehow implement in every cloud. And I think that does tend to get you to lowest common denominator because, you know, if you want to be on the Alexis Smart speaker, you have to be on the Lambda Service at a job. Yes, that's it. It doesn't exist anywhere else. And so if you're trying to create a common layer across so your clouds and that's your approach, you have to give up unique capabilities like that. And almost every consumer brand wants to be our needs to be on that election. Smart speaker. So we actually see it is more taking the functions that are not points of innovation, reducing the friction and leaving our customers with the time and energy to focus on taking advantage of their unique capabilities. And Fabio, you're partnering at Cisco with a number of their providers out there. Where are we with the maturity of all this? We were at the Cube con show and you know you're right. There's a lot of different tools. Simple is not what we're discussing, mostly out that show. So what do we solve today? And what kind of things does Cisco and its partners look to be solving kind of in the next 6 to 12 months? >> Partner? Partnering with this big players is absolutely a company priority for us, for Cisco, and one thing that's important is you, said multi vendor at the beginning. That was an interesting common, because if you think about it, multiple out is really business need, right? You want a hardness, innovation wherever it comes from. But then when you work with a specific provider in your reach, critical mass you want tohave integrations with this with this different providers, and that is the hybrid world. So hybrid is more of a technology need to streamline things like networking or security, or the way you storage because the poor things of this nature so that's three. Liza is a big need, and we'll continue, of course, adding more and more from the standpoint of partnerships every every one of the environments in our customers want to uses of interest for us, right to extend their policies to extend our reach. >> So just following up on that partnership, You guys air cloud agnostic, You don't own your own clouds, right? Not selling that. So you were at Google Cloud next to Europe on stage David Gettler, you've got a relationship with as your you got relationship with a W s. Obviously so talking about the importance of partnerships and specific strategy there in terms of your go to market, >> Well, you know, first, all the partnerships or critical I mean, it's you said we're not trying to move the workload Stark filed. And by the way, a lot of our customers has said that something that they value they see us is one of the biggest, most capable companies on the planet. That still is someone. I got sick and ableto work with them on. What's the right answer for their business? Not trying to move everything to one place and those partnerships a critical. So you're going to see us continue Teo building this partnerships. In fact, it's only day one here. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw some news this week on that. >> We were wondering if we're going to see somebody parachute in, that would be exciting. So why Cisco? Uh, ask each of you guys Maybe maybe, kid, you could You could give us the answer from your perspective and an Aussie. The same question. >> Well, from my perspective, it's based on what our customers tell us that again. You know, the things that were very good at things like networking and security are some of the biggest problems that our customs face in taking advantage of clouds and are some of things that they most want common across clouds. So we have a very natural role in this. I actually think back to the founding of Cisco, if you know the story. But it was Sandy Lerner and Limbo zakat Stanford. Their networks couldn't talk each other. You didn't remember back to the days like deck net and apple talk and all these things. It's hard to even recall because this new thing called peace pipe he obviously took over. That was the beginning of Sisko is building the multi protocol router that let those different islands talk each other. In many ways, Custer's see us doing sort of the same thing or want us to do the same thing in a multi cloud world. >> Well, just aside before I ask you, Fabian, a lot of people think that, you know, the microprocessor revolution killed many computers. IPads. Cisco kind of killed many computers to your point. But, Fabio, anything you would add to the sort of wisest >> guy would say, If you want my three seconds elevator peaches, we make multiple easier and more secure. Multiple this complex. So we definitely make it easier through our software. And we have three big buckets if you want there really compelling for for our customers, the 1st 1 is all of our software. Arsenal around weapon on his cloud center work looked a musician manager that helps last summer in building a unified application management kind of soft or sweet across home Prem and any of the public clouds that we've been talking about. The 2nd 1 is, as you said, we build on our DNA, which is, if you want and you heard Gettler today are multi domain kind of architecture, right, which is incredibly relevant in this case, you are not working in security. Fabric really is important there, and the thirties are ability because we don't compete with any other big players to partner with them and solve problems for our customers. So these three buckets are really, really important that deliver. Ah hi business value to >> our customers if I want to come back to something we're talking about is the Customs said the customers don't want a different security regime for each cloud, right? So it's complicated because, first of all, they're trying to struggle with their own security regime anyway, Right? Right? And that's transforming. What is the right right? Sorry security regime in this cloud here. How is it evolving? >> Well, me, What we're doing is we're bringing tools like Te Trae Shen, which now runs on prim and in the clouds. Things like stealth watch what's runs on permanent cloud and simply bringing them security frameworks that are very effective where I think a very capable of well known security vendor, but bringing them the capability to run the same capabilities in there on prem environments in their data centers as well as a multiple public clouds, and that just eliminates the scenes that hackers could maybe get into. It makes common policy possibles. They going to find policy around an application once and have it apply across Balto environments, which not only is easier for them but eliminates potential mistakes that they might make that might leave things open. Joe Hacker. So for us, it's that simple bringing very effective common frameworks for security across all these >> years. You certainly see the awareness of the security imperative moving beyond the SEC ops team. There's no question about that. It's now board level lines of business are worried about. For their digital transformation was data, but our organizations at the point where there operationalize ing security practices and the like, you know, to the extent that they should be >> well, I mean, I think when you say they should be, there's always room for improvement. Okay, but we're seeing just about all of our customers. I mean, as you said, securities is a sea level, if not a board level discussion and just about all of our customers. It's routinely top first or second concern on a survey when Custer's saw about what's concerning them with the clouds. And so we're seeing them really view, you know, security's foundational to what they're doing. >> I mean, it used to be. This sort of failure equals fire mentality. You somebody cracks through, you're fired. And so nobody talked about it. Now I think people realize, look, bad guys are going to get through. It's how you respond to them. Don't you think about how you using analytics, but yeah. So >> when we start just the >> way you were moving quickly >> towards, well, more or less quickly to a zero trust kind ofwork thie action assist you in this area every since the acquisition ofthe duo is performing exceptionally well. And if you want at the top of the security ecosystem in a multi polar world, you find identity because if you don't know who the user or the thing is, they're trying to use a certain application, you're in trouble because perimeter, all security off course is important. But you know that you're going to be penetrated, right? So it boils down to understanding who's doing what and re mediating a soon as possible. So it's a whole different paradigm >> of a security huge tail. When Francisco it's a business growing 21% a year, it's three more than three times the growth of the company. Overall, which is actually still pretty good. Five or 6%. So security rocketship? >> Yeah, Fabio, Just I noticed before we did the interview here that everybody is wearing the T shirts. The cloud takeover is happening here at the definite zone. So give those of us that you know aren't among the 28,000 you know here at the show. A little bit of what's happening from you're >> gonna do something unusual going, gonna turn that question to keep because he was actually on stage >> the second single. Why don't you just get that off? You know, I think it links back to it. Bobby. Always talking about what talent I mean, obviously the most important thing we bring our customers is the technology. We are a technology company, but so many of our customers were asking us to help them with this talent cap. And I think the growth of definite I mean, we're actually sitting here in the definite zone. It's got its own area Here. It's Sisk alive. It's gotten bigger every single year. Here it's just go live. The growth of definite is a sign of how important talent issue is as well as the new certifications that we announce we expanded our certification program to include software conjuncture with Dev. Net. So now people be able to get professional certifications Francisco not just on networking but on software capabilities and skills. And this is something both our partners, our customers have told us. They're really looking for now in terms of the takeover, it's something fun that the definite crew does. I think you're doing five of them during this week. I was really excited, Suzy. We asked us to be the first Eso es the opportunity. Kick it off. It does include beer. So that's one of the nice things. It includes T shirts, both things that I think are prevalent in the developer community. I'll say, Andi, just have an hour where the focus is on cloud technology. So we got everyone in cloud T shirts, a bunch of the experts for my product enduring teams on hand. We had some special presentations, were just many an hour focused on cloud >> Well, and I love that you're doing that definite zone. We've always been super impressed with this whole notion of infrastructures code. I think I've said many times of all the traditional enterprise cos you know computer companies, if you will hae t companies Cisco has done a better job of anybody than making its infrastructure programmable. We're talking about security before it's critical. If you're still tossing stuff over to the operations team, you're gonna be have exposures. Whereas you guys are in a position now and you talk talent, you're transitioning. You know the role of the C C I. A. And now is becoming essentially a developer of infrastructure is code, and it's a very powerful absolutely. I think we're >> helping our partners and our customers transform. Justus were transforming. I think it's kind of a symbiotic relationship that's super important to us. >> It's also important you think about the balancing act between agility, cost, called security or even data assurance. There. Tradeoffs involved the nobs. You have to turn, but you can. You can you achieve all three, you know, to optimize your business. >> Look, there may always be trade offs, but it's not sort of a zero sum game. All those we sing customers who've automated that through things like C I. D. Move Teo, you know, a different place in a much better place where They're not necessarily making trade offs on security to get better agility if they fully off if they fully automated their deployment chains. So they know that there are no mistakes there. They know that they have the ability to roll out fixes if they need to. They know that they're containers, for instance. They're being scanned from a security perspective, very every time they deploy them. They're actually able to build automated infrastructures that are more agile and more secure so that it's pretty exciting. >> So it involves the automated change management and date assurance talking about containers. That's interesting. Spinning up containers. You want to spend it down frequently. So the bad guys that makes it harder for them to get through. >> You talk about BM sprawling, right? Yeah, right. The Janus sprawling biggest issues out there. And by the way, you know, as you automate this infrastructure, rightly so you mention infrastructures code that you can do the other magic, which is introducing machine learning artificial intelligence. And today they get learn such Gupta gave school. Harold, thank you. Have a terrific demonstration off. You know, finding Rocco's analysis for very, very complex kind of problems that will take forever in the old fashion world. Now, all of a sudden you have the management system. In this case, the nation tells you actually where the problem is, and if you value there that you click a button and instantaneously you deploy, you know, new policies and configuration. That's a dream come true. Literally, you may say, probably we're the last ones to the party in terms of infrastructure players, the industry means. But we're getting there very quickly, and this is a whole new set of possibilities now, >> way talking the cube a lot, and I think it's really relevant for what I'm hearing about your strategies. This cloud is about bringing the cloud operating model to your data wherever your data lives. And that seems to be kind of underscore your your strategy. Absolutely. It's so edge cloud on Prem hybrid, you guys, Your strategy is really to enable customers to bring that operating model wherever they need to. Absolutely right >> that transparency is a big deal. I mean, application anywhere, eating. Did I anywhere? That's a world where we're going to >> guys thoughts. Final thoughts on Sisqo live this year. No, it's only day one gets a customer meetings tonight, but initial impression San Diego >> Well, it's It's a well, it's always great to be in San Diego on DH. It's a great facility, and we know our customers really enjoy San Diego is Well, I think we'll have a great customer appreciation event on Wednesday night. Um, but, you know, I was struck. Uh, you just have to the keynote. I mean, the world solutions was buzzing, and there seems to be is always a lot of energy. It's just go live. But somehow so far this season, maybe even a little bit more energy. I know we've got a number of announcements coming this week across a bunch different areas, including clouds. So we're excited for next few days. >> Well, you got the double whammy first half. We were in February when Barcelona guys don't waste any time. You come right back. And June, your final thoughts value. >> Oh, it's just so exciting to speak with customers and partners. Over here, you can touch their excitement. People love to come together and get old. The news, you know, in one place it's this tremendous amount of energy here. >> Keep copter Fabio Gori. Thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Appreciate it. Thank you for having your walkabout, keeper. Right, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. David Out. A student of Aunt Lisa Martin. We're live from Cisco Live 2019 in San Diego, right back.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Welcome to this Special Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California at the Cube Studios at the Cube headquarters. I'm John for the host, like you were a Dustin Kirkland product manager and Google friend of the Cuban. The community with Cooper Netease been on the Cube Cube alumni. Dustin. Welcome to the Cube conversation. >> Thanks. John's a beautiful studio. I've never been in the studio and on the show floor a few times, but this is This is fun. >> Great to have you on a great opportunity to chat about Cooper Netease yet of what you do out some product man's working Google. But really more importantly on this conversation is about the fifth anniversary, the birthday of Cuba Netease. Today we're celebrating the fifth birthday of Cooper Netease. Still, it's still a >> toddler, absolutely still growing. You think about how you know Lennox has been around for a long time. Open stack has been around these other big projects that have been around for, you know, going on decades and Lenox this case and Cooper nineties. It's going so fast, but It's only five years old, you know. >> You know, I remember Adam Open Stack event in Seattle many, many years ago. That was six years ago. Pubes on his 10th year. So many of these look backs moments. This is one of them. I was having a beer with Lou Tucker. J J Kiss Matic was like one of the first comes at the time didn't make it, But we were talking about open stagger like this Cooper Netease thing. This is really hot. This paper, this initiative this could really be the abstraction layer to kind of bring all this cloud Native wasn't part of the time, but it was like more of an open stack. Try and move up to stack. And it turned out it ended up happening. Cooper Netease then went on to change the landscape of what containers did. Dr. Got a lot of credit for pioneering that got the big VC funding became a unicorn, and then containers kind of went into a different direction because of Cooper duties. >> Very much so. I mean, the modernization of software infrastructure has been coming for a long time, and Cooper nutty sort of brings it all brings it all together at this point, but putting software into a container. We've been doing that different forest for for a lot of time, uh, for a long time, but But once you have a lot of containers, what do you do with that? Right? And that was the problem that Cooper Nettie solved so eloquently and has, you know, now for a couple of years, and it just keeps getting better. >> You know, you mentioned modernization. Let's talk about that because I think the modernization the theme is now pretty much prevalent in every vertical. I'll be in D. C. Next week for the Amazon Webster was public sector Summit, where modernization of governments and nations are being discussed. Education, modernization of it. We've seen it here. The media business that were participating in is about not where you store the code. It's how you code. How you build is a mindset shift. This has been the rial revelation around the Dev Ops Movement Infrastructures Code, now called Cloud Native. Share your thoughts on this modernization mindset because it really is how you build. >> Yeah, I think the cross pollination actually across industries and we even we see that even just in the word containers, right and all the imagery around shipping and shipping containers, we've applied these age old concepts that have been I don't have perfected but certainly optimized over decades of, actually centuries or millennia of moving things across water in containers. Right. But we apply that to software and boom. We have the step function difference in the way that we we manage and we orchestrated and administer code. That's one example of that cross pollination, and now you're talking about, like optimizing optimized governments or economies but being able to maybe then apply other concepts that we've come a long way in computer science do de bop set a good example? You know, applying Dev ops principles to non computer feels. Just think about that for a second. >> It's mind blowing. And if you think about also the step function you mentioned because I think this actually changed a lot of the entrepreneurial landscape as well and also has shaped open source and, you know, big news this this quarter is map are going to shut down due one of the biggest do players. Cloudera merge with Horton Works fired their CEO, the founder Michael. So has retired, Some say forced out. I don't think so. I think it's more of his time. I'm Rodel still there. Open source is a business model, you know. Can we be the red hat for her? Duped the red? Not really kind of the viable, but it's evolving. So open source has been impacted by this step function. There's a business impact. Talk about the dynamics with step function both on the business side and on how software's built specifically open source. >> You know, you and I have been around open source for a long, long time. I think it started when I was in college in the late nineties on then through my career at IBM. And it's It's interesting how on the fringe open source was for so long and such so so much of my BM career. And then early time spent onside it at Red Hat. It was it was something that was it was different, was weird. It was. It was very much fringe where the right uh, but now it's in mainstream and it's everywhere, and it's so mainstream that it's almost the defacto standard to just start with open source. But you know, there's some other news that's been happening lately that she didn't bring up. But it's a really touchy aspect of open source right now on that's on some of the licenses and how those licenses get applied by software, especially databases. When offered as a service in the cloud. That's one of the big problems. I think that that's that we're we're working within the open >> source, summarize the news and what it means. What's what's happening? What's the news and what's the really business? Our technical impact to the licensing? What's the issue? What's the core issue? >> Yeah, eso without taking judgment any any way, shape or form on this, the the the TL D are on. This is a number of open source database is most recently cockroach D. B. I have adopted a different licensing model that is nonstandard from an open source perspective. Uh, and from one perspective, they're they're adopting these different licensing models because other vendors can take that software and offered as a service, yes, and in some some cases, like Amazon like Sure, you said, uh, and offered as a as a service, uh, and maybe contribute. Maybe pay money to the smaller startup or the open source community behind it. But not necessarily. Uh, and it's in some ways is quite threatening to open source communities and open source companies on other cases, quite empowering. And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. The tension between open sourcing software and eventually making money off of it is something that we've we've seen for, you know, at least 25. >> And it continues to go on today, and this is, to me a real fascinating area that I think is going to be super important to keep an eye on because you want to encourage contribution and openness. Att the same time we look at the scale of just the Lenox foundations numbers. It's pretty massive in terms of now, the open source contribution. When you factor in even China and other nations, it's it's on exponential growth, right? So is it just open source? Is the model not necessarily a business? Yeah. So this is the big question. No one knows. >> I think we crossed that. And open source is the model. Um, and this is where me is a product manager. That's worked around open source. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to create commercial offerings around open source. I spent 10 years at Economical, the first half of which, as an engineer, the second half of which, as a product manager around, uh, about building services, commercial services around 12 And I learned quite a few things that now apply absolutely to communities as well as to a number of open source startups. That that I've advised on DH kind of given them some perspective on maybe some successful and unsuccessful ways to monetize that that opens. >> Okay, so doesn't talk about Let's get back to Coburg. And so I think this is the next level Talk track is as Cooper Netease has established itself and landed in the industry and has adoption. It's now an expansion votes the land adopted expand. We've seen adoption. Now it's an expansion mode. Where does it go from here? Because you look at the tale signs things like service meshes server. Listen, you get some interesting trends that going to support this expansionary stage of uber netease. What is your view about the next expansion everyway what >> comes next? Yeah, I I think I think the next stage is really about democratizing communities for workloads that you know. It's quite obvious where when communities is the right answer at the scale of a Google or a Twitter or Netflix or, you know, some of these massive services that it is obviously and clearly the best answer to orchestrating containers. Now I think the next question is, how does that same thing that works at that massive scale Also worked for me as a developer at a very small scale helped me develop my software. My small team of five or 10 people. Do I need a coup? Burnett. He's If I'm ah five or 10 person startup. Well, I mean, not the original sort of borde vision of communities. It's probably overkill, but actually the tooling has really advanced, and we now >> have >> communities that makes sense on very small scales. You've got things like a three s from from Rancher. You've got micro Kates from from my colleagues at economical other ways of making shrinking communities down to something that fits, perhaps on devices perhaps at the edge, beyond just the traditional data center and into remote locations that need to deploy manage applications >> on the Cooper Netease clustering the some of the tech side. You know, we've seen some great tech trends as mentioned in Claudia Horton. Works and map Our Let's Take Claudia and Horton work. Remember back in the old days when it was booming? Oh, they were so proud to talk about their clusters. I stood up all these clusters and then I would ask them, Well, what do you doing with it? Well, we're storing data. I think so. That became kind of this use case where standing up the cluster was the use case and they're like, OK, now let's put some data in it. It's a question for you is Coburn. Eddie's a little bit different. I'm not seeing they were seeing real use cases. What are people standing up? Cuban is clusters for what specific Besides the same Besides saying I've done it. Yeah, What's the what's the main use case that you're seeing this that has real value? >> Yeah, actually, there's you just jog t mind of really funny memory. You know, back in those big data days, I was CEO of a startup. We were encrypting data, and we were helping encrypt healthcare data for health care companies and the number of health care companies that I worked with at that time who said they had a big data problem and they had all of I don't know, 33 terabytes worth of worth of data that they needed to encrypt. It was kind of humorous sometimes like, Is that really a big, big data problem? This fits on a single disc, you know, Uh, but yeah, I mean, it's interesting how >> that the hype of of the tech was preceding. The reality needs needs, says Cooper Nettie. So I have a Cuban Eddie's cluster for blank. Fill in the blank. What are people saying? >> Yeah, uh, it's It's largely about the modernization. So I need to modernize my infrastructure. I'm going to adopt the platform. That's probably not, er, the old er job, a Web WebSphere type platform or something like that. I'm investing in hardware investing in Software Middle, where I'm investing in people, and I want all of those things to line up with where industry is going from a software perspective, and that's where Cooper Nighties is sort of the cornerstone piece of that Lennox Of course, that's That's pretty well established >> canoes delivery in an integration piece of is that the pipeline in was, that was the fit on the low hanging fruit use cases of Cooper Netease just development >> process. Or it's the operations it's the operations of now got software that I need to deploy across multiple versions, perhaps multiple sites. Uh, I need to handle that upgrade ideally without downtime in a way that you said service mash in a way that meshes together makes sense. I've got a roll out new certificates I need to address the security, vulnerability, thes air, all the things that Cooper and I used to such a better job at then, what people were doing previously, which was a whole lot of four loops, shell strips and sshh pushing, uh, pushing tar balls around. Maybe Debs or rpm's around. That is what Cooper not he's actually really solves and does an elegant job of solving as just a starting point. And that's just the beginning and, you know, without getting ve injury here, you know, Anthros is the thing that we had at Google have built around Cooper Netease that brings it to enterprise >> here the other day did a tweet. I called Anthem. I just typing too fast. I got a lot of crap on Twitter for that mission. And those multi cloud has been a big part of where Cubans seems to fit. You mentioned some of the licensing changes. Cloud has been a great resource for a lot of the new Web scale applications from all kinds of companies. Now, with several issues seeing a lot more than capabilities, how do you see the next shift with data State coming in? Because God stateless date and you got state full data. Yeah, this has become a conversation point. >> Yeah, I think Kelsey Hightower has said it pretty eloquently, as he usually does around the sort of the serval ist movement and lets lets developers focus on just their code and literally just their code, perhaps even just their function in just their piece of code, without having to be an expert on all of the turtles all the way, all the way down. That's the big difference about service have having written a couple of those functions. I can I can really invest my time on the couple of 100 lines of code that matter and not choosing a destro choosing a cougar Nati is choosing, you know, all the stack underneath. I simply choose the platform where I'm gonna drop that that function, compile it, uploaded and then riff and rub. On that >> fifth anniversary, Cooper Netease were riffing on Cooper Netease. Dustin Circle here inside the Cube Cube Alumni you were recently at the coop con in overseas in Europe, Barcelona, Barcelona, great city. Keeps been there many times. Do was there covering for us. Couldn't make this trip, Unfortunately, had a couple daughter's graduating, so I didn't make the trip. Sorry, guys. Um, what was the summary? What was the takeaway? Was the big walk away from that event? What synthesized? The main stories were the most important stories being >> told. >> Big news, big observations. >> It was a huge event to start with. It was that fear of Barcelona. Um, didn't take over the whole space. But I've been there a number of times from Mobile World Congress. But, you know, this is this is cube con in the same building that hosts all of mobile world Congress. So I think 8,000 attendees was what we saw. It's quite celebratory. You know, I think we were doing some some pre fifth birthday bash celebrations, Key takeaways, hybrid hybrid, Cloud, multi Cloud. I think that's the world that we've evolved into. You know, there was a lot of tension. I think in the early days about must stay on. Prem must go to the cloud. Everything's there's gonna be a winner and a loser and everything's gonna go one direction or another. I think the chips have fallen, and it's pretty obvious now that the world will exist in a very hybrid, multi cloud state. Ultimately, there's gonna be some stuff on Prem that doesn't move. There's going to be some stuff better hosted in one arm or public clouds. That's the multi cloud aspect, Uh, and there will be stubborn stuff at the edge and remote locations and vehicles on oil rigs at restaurants and stores and >> so forth. What's most exciting from a trans statement? What do you what? What's what's getting you excited from what you see on the landscape out there? >> So the tying all of that to Cooper Netease, Cuban aunties, is the thing that basically normalizes all of that. You write your application put it in a container and expect to communities to be there to scale that toe. Operate that top grade that to migrate that over time. From that perspective, Cooper nineties has really ticked, ticked all the boxes, and you've got a lot of choices now about which companies here, you're going to use it and where >> beyond communities, a lot of variety of projects coop flow, you got service messes out there a lot of difference. Project. What's What's a dark horse? What's something that sets out there that people should be paying attention to? That you see emerging? That's notable. That should be paying attention. To >> think is a combination of two things. One is pretty obvious, and that's a ML is coming like a freight train and is sort of the next layer of excitement. I think after Cooper, Netease becomes boring, which hopefully if we've done our jobs well, that communities layer gets settled and we'll evolve. But the sort of the hockey stick hopefully settles down and it becomes something super stable. Uh, the application of machine learning to create artificial intelligence conclusions, trends from things that is sort of the next big trend on then I would say another one If you really want the dark horse. I think it's around communications. And I think it's around the difference in the way that we communicate with one another across all forms of media voice, video chat, writing, how we interact with people, how we interact with our our tools with our software and in fact, how our software in Iraq's with us in our software acts with with other software that communications industry is, it's ripe for some pretty radical disruption. And you know some of the organizations and they're doing that. It's early early days on those >> changes. Final point you mentioned earlier in our conversation here about how Dev Ops is influencing impacting non tech and computer science. Really? What did you mean by that? >> Uh, well, I think you brought up unexpectedly and that that you were looking at the way Uh, some other industries are changing, and I think that cross pollination is actually quite quite powerful when you take and apply a skill and expertise you have outside of your industry. But it adds something new and interesting, too, to your professional environment. That's where you get these provocative operations. He's really creative, innovative things that you know. No one really saw it coming. >> Dave Ops principles apply to other disciplines. Yeah, agility. That's that's pointing down waterfall based processes. That's >> one phenomenal example. Imagine that for governments, right to remove some of the like the pain that you and I know. I've got to go and renew my license. My birthday's coming up. I gotta go to renew my driver's license. You know much. I'm dreading going to the the DMV Root >> Canal driver's license on the same. Exactly >> how waterfall is that experience. And could we could we beam or Mohr Agile More Dev Autopsy and some of our government across >> the U. S. Government's procurement practices airbase upon 1990 standards they still want Request a manual, a physical manual for every product violent? Who does that? >> I know that there are organizations trying to apply some open source principles to government. But I mean, think about, you know, just democracy and how being a little bit more open and transparent in the way that we are in open source code, the ability to accept patches. I have a side project, a passion for brewing beer and I love applying open source practices to the industry of brewing. And that's an example of where use professional work, Tio. Compliment a hobby. >> All right, we got to bring some cubic private label, some Q beer. >> If you like sour beer, I'm in the sour beer. >> That's okay. We like to get the pus for us. Final question for you. Five years from now, Cooper needs to be 10 years old. What's the world gonna look like when we wake up five years from now with two Cuban aunties? >> Yeah, I think, uh, I don't think we're struggling with the Cooper nutties. Uh, the community's layer. At that point, I think that's settled science, inasmuch as Lennox is pretty settled. Science, Yes, there's a release, and it comes out with incremental features and bug fixes. I think Cuban aunties is settled. Science management of of those containers is pretty well settled. Uh, five years from now, I think we end up with software, some software that that's writing software. And I don't quite mean that in the way That sounds scary, uh, and that we're eliminating developers, but I think we're creating Mohr powerful, more robust software that actually creates that that software and that's all built on top of the really strong, robust systems we have underneath >> automation to take the heavy lifting. But the human creation still keeping one of the >> humans Aaron the look it's were We're many decades away from humans being out of the loop on creative processes. >> Dustin Kirkland, he a product manager of Google Uh, Cooper Netease guru also keep alumni here in the studio talking about the coup. Burnett. He's 50 year anniversary. Of course, the kid was president creation during the beginning of the wave of communities. We love the trend we love Cloud would left home a tec. I'm Sean for here in Palo Alto. Thanks for watching.

>> about >> fifteen live from basically about a room that is a common club native con Europe twenty nineteen by Red Hat, The >> Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage of Cloud Native Con Cube Khan, twenty nineteen I'm stupid in my co host is Corey Quinn and having a welcome back to the program, Doug Davis, who's a senior technical staff member and PM of a native. And he happens to be employed by IBM. Thanks so much for joining. Thanks for inviting me. Alright, So Corey got really excited when he saw this because server Lis is something that you know he's been doing for a while. I've been poking in, trying to understand all the pieces have done marvelous conflict couple of times and, you know, I guess, I guess layout for our audience a little bit, you know, k native. You know, I look at it kind of a bridging a solution, but, you know, we're talking. It's not the, you know, you know, containers or server lists. And, you know, we understand that world. They're spectrums and there's overlap. So maybe as that is a set up, you know, What is the surveillance working groups? You know, Charter. Right. So >> the service Working Group is a Sand CF working group. It was originally started back in mid two thousand seventeen by the technical recite committee in Cincy. They basically wanted know what is service all about his new technology is that some of these get involved with stuff like that. So they started up the service working group and our main mission was just doing some investigation. And so the output of this working group was a white paper. Basically describing serval is how it compares with the other as is out there. What is the good use cases for when to use that went out through it? Common architectures, basically just explaining what the heck is going on in that space. And then we also produced a landscape document basically laying out what's out there from a proprietors perspective as well is open source perspective. And then the third piece was at the tail end of the white paper set of recommendations for the TOC or seen stuff in general. What do they do next? And basic came down to three different things. One was education. We want to be educate the community on what services when it's appropriate stuff like that. Two. What should wait? I'm sorry I'm getting somebody Thinks my head recommendations. What other projects we pull into the CNC f others other service projects, you know, getting encouraged in the joint to grow the community. And third, what should we do around improbability? Because obviously, when it comes to open source standards of stuff like that, we want in our ability, portability stuff like that and one of the low hang your food should be identified was, well, service seems to be all about events. So there's something inventing space we could do, and we recognize well, if we could help the processing of events as it moves from Point A to point B, that might help people in terms of middleware in terms of routing, of events, filtering events, stuff like that. And so that's how these convents project that started. Right? And so that's where most of service working group members are nowadays. Is cod events working or project, and they're basically divine, Eva said specification around cloud events, and you kind of think of it as defining metadata to add to your current events because we're not going to tell you. Oh, here's yet another one size fits all cloud of in format, right? It's Take your current events. Sprinkle a little extra metadata in there just to help routing. And that's really what it's all about. >> One of the first things people say about server list is quoted directly from the cover of Missing the Point magazine Server list Runs on servers. Wonderful. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Go away slightly less naive is, I think, an approach, and I've seen a couple of times so far at this conference. When talking to people that they think of it in terms of functions as a service of being able to take arbitrary code and running, I have a wristwatch I can run arbitrary code on. That's not really the point. It's, I think you're right. It's talking more about the event model and what that unlocks As your application. Mohr less starts to become more self aware. Are you finding that acceptance of that viewpoint is taking time to take root? >> Yeah, I think what's interesting is when we first are looking. A serval is, I think, very a lot of people did think of service equals function of the service, and that's all it was. I think what we're finding now is this this mode or people are more open to the idea of sort of as you. I think you're alluding to merging of these worlds because we look at the functionality of service offers, things like event based, which really only means is the messages coming in? It just happens to look like an event. Okay, fine. Mrs comes in you auto scale based upon, you know, loaded stuff like that scale down to zero is a the monkey thought it was really like all these other things are all these features. Why should you limit those two service? Why not a past platform? Why not? Container is a service. Why would you want those just for one little as column? And so my goal with things like a native though I'm glad you mentioned it is because I think he does try to span those, and I'm hoping it kind of merges them altogether and says, Look, I don't care what you call it. Use this piece of technology because it does what you need to do. If you want to think of it as a pass, go for I don't care. This guy over here he wants think that is a FAZ Great. It's the same piece of technology. Does the feature do what you need? Yes or no? Ignore that, nor the terminology around it more than anything >> else. So I agree. Ueda Good, Great discussion with the user earlier and he said from a developer standpoint, I actually don't want to think too much about which one of these pass I go down. I want to reduce the friction for them and make it easy. So you know, how does K native help us move towards that? You know, ideal >> world, right? And I think so fine. With what I said earlier, One of the things I think a native does, aside from trying to bridge all the various as columns is I also look a K native as a simplification of communities because as much as everybody here loves communities, it is kind of complicated, right? It is not the easiest thing in the world to use, and it kind of forced you to be a nightie expert which almost goes against the direction we were headed. When you think of Cloud Foundry stuff like that where it's like, Hey, you don't worry about this something, we're just give us your code, right? Cos well says No, you gotta know about Network Sing Gris on values that everything else it's like, I'm sorry, isn't this going the wrong way? Well, Kania tries to back up a little, say, give you all the features of Cooper Netease, but in a simplified platform or a P I experience that you can get similar Tokat. Foundry is Simo, doctor and stuff, but gives you all the benefits of communities. But the important thing is if for some reason you need to go around K native because it's a little too simplified or opinionated, you could still go around it to get to the complicated stuff. And it's not like you're leaving that a different world or you're entering a different world because it's the same infrastructure they could stuff that you deploy on. K Native can integrate very nicely with the stuff you deploy through vanilla communities if you have to. So it is really nice emerging these two worlds, and I'm I'm really excited by that. >> One thing that I found always strange about server list is at first it was defined by what it's not and then quickly came to be defined almost by its constraints. If you take a look at public cloud offerings around this, most notably a ws land other there, many others it comes down well. You can only run it for experience time or it only runs in certain run times. Or it's something the cold starts become a problem. I think that taking a viewpoint from that perspective artificially hobbles what this might wind up on locking down the road just because these constraints move. And right now it might be a bit of a toy. I don't think it will be as it because it needs to become more capable. The big value proposition that I keep hearing around server listen I've mostly bought into has been that it's about business logic and solving the things that Air Corps to your business and not even having to think about infrastructure. Where do you stand on that >> viewpoint? I completely agree. I think a lot of the limitations you see today are completely artificial. I kind of understand why they're there, because the way things have progressed. But again, that's one reason I excited like a native is because a lot of those limitations aren't there. Now, Kay native doesn't have its own set of limitations. And personally, I do want to try to remove those. Like I said, I would love it if K native, aside from the serval ISS features it offers up, became these simplified, incriminate his experience. So if you think about what you could do with Coronet is right, you could deploy a pod and they can run forever until the system decides to crash. For some reason, right, why not do that with a native and you can't stay with a native? Technically, I have demos that I've been running here where I set the men scale the one it lives forever, and teenager doesn't care right? And so deploying an application through K native communities. I don't care that it's the same thing to me. And so, yes, I do want to merge in those two worlds. I wantto lower those constraints as long as you keep it a simplified model and support the eighty to ninety percent of those use cases that it's actually meant to address. Leave the hard stuff for going around it a little. >> Alright, So, Doug, you know, it's often times, you know, we get caught in this bubble of arguing over, you know? You know what we call it, how the different pieces are. Yesterday you had a practitioner Summit four server list. So what? I want to hear his You know, whats the practitioners of you put What are they excited about? What are they using today and what are the things that they're asking for? Help it become, you know, Maur were usable and useful for them in the future. >> So in full disclosure, we actually kind of a quiet audience, so they weren't very vocal. But what little I did here is they seem very excited by K native and I think a lot of it was because we were just talking about that sort of merging of the worlds because I do think there is still some confusion around, as you said when you use one verse of the other and I think a native is helping to bring those together. And I did hear some excitement around that in terms of what people actually expect from us going in the future. I don't know. Be honest. They didn't actually say a whole lot there. I had my own personal opinion, and lot of years would already stayed in terms of emerging. Stop having me pick a technology or pick a terminology, right? Let me just pick the technology. It gets my job done and hopefully that one will solve a lot of my needs. But for the most parts, I think it was really more about Kaneda than anything else. Yesterday, >> I think like Lennox before it. Any technology? At some point you saw this with virtual ization with cloud, with containers with Cooper Netease. And now we're starting to Syria to see with server lists where some of its most vocal proponents are also the most obnoxious in that they're looking at this from a perspective of what's your problem? I'm not even going to listen to the answer. The absolution is filling favorite technology here. So to that end today, what workloads air not appropriate for surveillance in your mind? >> Um, >> so this is hardly an answer because I have the IBM Army running through my head because what's interesting is I do hear people talk about service is good for this and not this or you can date. It is good for this and not this. And I hear those things, and I'm not sure I actually buy it right. I actually think that the only limitations that I've seen in terms of what you should not run on time like he needed or any of the platform is whatever that platform actually finds you, too. So, for example, on eight of us, they may have time limited in terms of how long you can run. If that's a problem for you, don't use it to me. That's not an artifact of service. That's artifact of that particular choice of how the implement service with K native they don't have that problem. You could let it run forever if you want. So in terms of what workloads or good or bad, I honestly I don't have a good answer for that because I don't necessary by some of the the stories I'm hearing, I personally think, try to run everything you can through something like Cain native, and then when it fails, go someplace else is the same story had when containers first came around. They would say, You know when to use BMS vs Containers. My go to answer was, always try containers first. Your life will be a whole lot easier when it doesn't work, then look at the other things because I don't want to. I don't want to try to pigeonhole something like surly or K native and say, Oh, don't even think about it for these things because it may actually worked just fine for you, right? I don't want people to believe negative hype in a way that makes sense, >> and that's very fair. I tend to see most of the constraints around. This is being implementation details of specific providers and that that will dictate answers to that question. I don't want to sound like I'm coming after you, and that's very thoughtful of measured with >> thank you. That's the usual response back. So don't >> go. I'Ll give you the tough one critical guy had in Seattle. Okay, when I looked at K Native is there's a lot of civilised options out there yet, but when I talked to users, the number one out there is a ws Lambda, and number two is probably as your functions. And as of Seattle, neither of those was fully integrated. Since then, I talk to a little startup called Believers Trigger Mash, that that has made some connections between Lambda Ah, and a native. And there was an announcement a couple of weeks ago, Kedia or Keita? That's azure and some kind of future to get Teo K native. So it feels like it's a maturity thing. And, you know, what can you tell us about, you know, the big cloud guys on Felicia? Google's involved IBM Red Hat on and you know Oracle are involved in K Native. So where do those big cloud players? Right? >> So from my perspective, what I think Kenya has going for it over the others is one A lot of other guys do run on Cooper Netease. I feel like they're sort of like communities as well as everything else, like some of them can run. Incriminate is Dr anything else, and so they're not necessary, tightly integrated and leveraging the community's features the way Kay Native is doing. And I think that's a little bit unique right there. But the other thing that I think K native has going for it is the community around it? I think people were doing were noticing. Is that what you said? There's a lot of other players out there, and it's hard for people to choose. And what? I think Google did a great job of this sort of bringing the community together and said, Look, can we stop bickering and develop a sort of common infrastructure? Like Who Burnett is is that we can all then base our surveillance platforms on, and I think that rallying cry to bring the community together across a common base is something a little bit unique for K native. When you compare it with the others, I think that's a big draw for people. Least from my perspective. I know it from IBM Zzzz Well, because community is a big thing for us, >> obviously. Okay, so will there be a bridge to those other cloud players soon as their road map? For that, >> we think a native itself. Yeah, I am not sure I can answer that one, because I'm not sure I heard a lot of talk about bridging per se. I know that when you talk about things like getting events from other platforms and stuff. Obviously, through the eventing side of a native we do went from a serving perspective. I'm not sure I hold her old water. From that perspective, you have >> to be honest. All right, Well, Doug Davis, we're done for This one. Really appreciate all the updates there. And I definitely look forward, Teo, seeing the progress that the servant working group continues to do, so thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Alright for Corey Quinn. I'm stupid and will be back with more coverage here on the Cube. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the key covering KubeCon Cloud, Native Con Europe twenty nineteen by Red Hat, the Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, Spain >> were here of the era, and seventy seven hundred people are here for the KubeCon Cloud NativeCon, twenty, nineteen, Off student. My co host for the two days of coverage is Corey Quinn, and joining Me are the two co chairs of this CNC event. Janet Cooper, who is also thie, suffer engineer with Google and having done the wrap up on stage in the keynote this morning, find Lyle's a senior staff engineer with BM where thank you both for joining us, >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's start. We're celebrating five years of Kubernetes as damn calm laid out this morning. You know, of course, you know came from Google board in over a decade of experience there. So it just helps out the state for us. >> Um, so I started working on communities since before the 1.4 release and then steal a project Montana today. And I feel so proud to see, uh, the progress off this project and its has grown exponentially. And today we have already thirty one thousand contributors and expect it to grow even more if you can. >> All right. So, Brian, you work with some of the original people that helped create who Burnett ease because you came to be and where, by way of the FTO acquisition, seventy seven hundred people here we said it. So it's, you know, just about the size of us feel that we had in Seattle a few months ago Way Expect that San Diego is going to be massive when we get there in the fall. But you know, talk to us is the co chair, you know, What's it mean to, you know, put something like this together? >> Well, so as ah is a long time open source person and seeing you know, all these companies move around for, you know, decades. Now it's nice to be a part of something that I saw from the sidelines for so, so long. I'm actually... it's kind of surreal because I didn't do anything special to get here. I just did what I was doing. And you know, Jan and I just wound up here together, so it's a great feeling, and it's the best part about it is whenever I get off stage and I walked outside and I walked back. It's like a ten minute walk each way. So many people are like, Yeah, you really made my morning And that's that's super special. >> Yeah. I mean, look, you know, we're we're huge fans of open source in general and, you know, communities, especially here. So look, there was no, you know, you both have full time jobs, and you're giving your time to support this. So thank you for what you did. And, you know, we know it takes an army to put together in a community. Some of these people, we're Brian, you know, you got upstate talk about all the various project. There's so many pieces here. We've only have a few minutes. Any kind of major highlights You wanna pull from the keynote? >> So the biggest. Actually, I I've only highlight won the open census open. Tracing merge is great, because not only because it's going to make a better product, but he had two pretty good pieces of software. One from Google, actually, literally both from Google. Ultimately, But they realize that. Hey, we have the same goals. We have similar interfaces. And instead of going through this arms race, what they did is sable. This is what we'LL do. We'LL create a new project and will merge them. That is, you know, that is one of the best things about open source. You know, you want to see this in a lot of places, but people are mature enough to say, Hey, we're going to actually make something bigger and better for everyone. And that was my favorite update. >> Yeah, well, I tell you, and I'm doing my job well, because literally like during the keynote, I reached out to Ben. And Ben and Morgan are going to come on the program to talk about that merging later today. That was interested. >> I've often been accused of having that first language being snark, and I guess in that light, something that I'm not particularly clear on, and this is not the setup for a joke. But one announcement that was made on stage today was that Tiller is no longer included in the current version of Wasn't Helm. Yes, yes, And everyone clapped and applauded, and my immediate response was first off. Wow, if you were the person that wrote Tiller, that probably didn't feel so good given. Everyone was copping and happy about it. But it seems that that was big and transformative and revelatory for a lot of the audience. What is Tiller and why is it perceived as being less than awesome? >> All right, so I will give you a disclaimer, >> please. >> The disclaimer is I do not work on the helm project... Wonderful >> ...so anything that I say should be fact checked. >> Excellent. >> So Well, so here's the big deal. When Tiller, when Helm was introduced, they had this thing called Tiller. And what tiller did was it ran at a basically a cluster wide level to make sure that it could coordinate software being installed and Kubernetes named Spaces or groups how Kubernetes applications are distributed. So what happens is is that that was the best vector for security problems. Basically, you had this root level piece of software running, and people were figuring out ways to get around it. And it was a big security hole. What >> they've done Just a component. It's an attack platform. It >> was one hundred percent. I mean, I remember bit. Nami actually wrote a block post. You know, disclaimer of'em were just bought that bit na me. >> Yes, I insisted It's called Bitten, am I? But we'LL get to that >> another. This's a disclaimer, You know, There Now you know there now my co workers But they wrote they were with very good article about a year and a half ago about just all the attack vectors, but and then also gave us solution around that. Now you don't need that solution. What you get by default. Now something is much more secure. And that's the most important piece. And I think the community really loves Helm, and now they have helm with better defaults. >> So, Janet, a lot of people at the show you talk about, you know, tens of thousands of contributors to it. But that being said, there's still a lot of the world that is just getting started. Part of the key note. And I knew you wrote something running workloads and cover Netease talk a little bit about how we're helping you know, those that aren't yet, you know, on board with you getting into the community ship. >> So I work on the C gaps. So she grabs one of the sub fracture that own is the work wells AP Eyes. That's why I had that. What post? About running for closing covered alleys. So basically, you you're using coronaries clarity, baby eyes to run a different type of application, and we call it were close. So you have stay full state wears or jobs and demons and you have different guys to run those clothes in the communities. And then for those who are just getting started, maybe start with, uh, stay last were close. That's the easiest one. And then for people who are looking Teo, contribute war I. I encouraged you to start with maybe small fixes, maybe take some documents or do some small P R's and you're reputations from there and star from small contributions and then feel all the way up. >> Yeah, so you know, one of one of the things when I look out there, you know, it's a complex ecosystem now, and, you know, there's a lot of pieces in there, you know, you know, trend we see is a lot of customers looking for manage services. A lot of you know, you know, I need opinions to help get me through all of these various pieces. You know what? What do you say to those people? And they're coming in And there's that, you know, paradox of choice When they, you know, come, come looking. You know, all the options out there. >> So I would say, Start with something simple that works. And then you can always ask others for advice for what works, What doesn't work. And you can hear from their success stories or failure stories. And then I think I recently he saw Block post about Some people in the community is collecting a potential failure stories. There is also a talk about humanity's fellow, the stories. So maybe you can go there and learn from the old those mistakes and then how to build a better system from there. >> I'd love that. We have to celebrate those failures that we hopefully can learn from them. Find anything on that, You know, from your viewpoint. >> Eso Actually, it's something I research is developer experience for you. Bernetti. So my communities is this whole big ping. I look on top of it and I'm looking at the outside in howto developers interact with Burnett, ese. And what we're seeing is that there's lots of room for opportunities and Mohr tools outside of the main community space that will help people actually interact with it because that's not really communities. Developers responsibility, you know, so one anything that I think that we're doing now is we're looking and this is something that we're doing and be aware that I can talk about is that we're looking at a P ice we're looking at. We realize that client go, which is the way that you burnett ese talks with sapi eyes, and a lot of people are using out externally were looking at. But what does it actually mean for human to use this and a lot of my work is just really around. Well, that's cool for computers. Now, what if a human has to use it? So what we're finding is that no. And I'm going to talk about this in my keynote tomorrow. You know, we're on this journey, and Kubernetes is not the destination. Coover Netease is the vehicle that is getting us to the destination that we don't even know what it is. So there's lots of spaces that we can look around to improve Kubernetes without even touching Cooper Netease itself, because actually, it's pretty good and it's fairly stable in a lot of cases. But it's hard, and that's the best part. So that's, you know, lots of work for us, the salt >> from my perspective. One of the turning points in Kou Burnett is a success. Story was when it got beyond just Google. Well, folks working on it. For better or worse, Google has a certain step of coding standards, and then you bring it to the real world, where there are people who are, Let's be honest, like me, where my coding standard is. I should try to right some some days, and not everything winds up having the same constraints. Not everything has the same approach. To some extent, it really feels like a tipping point for all of it was when you wind up getting to a position where people are bringing their real world workload that don't look like anything, anyone would be able to write a googol and keep their job. But still having to work with this, there was a wound up being sort of blossoming effect really accelerating the project. Conversely, other large infrastructure projects we need not mention when they had that tipping point in getting more people involved, they sort of imploded on themselves. I'm curious. Do you have any thoughts as to why you Burnett? He started thriving where other projects and failed trying to do the same things. >> I have something you go first. And >> I think the biggest thing about cybernetics is the really strong community and the ecosystem and also communities has the extensive bility for you to build on top of communities. We've seen people building from works, and then the platform is different platforms. Open source platforms on top of you. Burnett is so other people can use on other layers. Hyah. Layers off stacks on top of fraternities. Just use those open source. So, for example, we have the CRD. It's an A P I that allows you to feel your own customized, overnighted style FBI, so they're using some custom for couple databases. You could just create your own carbonated style FBI and call out your database or other stuffs, and then you can combine them into your own platform. And that's very powerful because everywhere. I can just use the same FBI, the Carbonari style idea to manage almost everything and that enables a Teo be able to, you know, on communities being adopted in different industry, such as I o t. A and Lord. >> So actually, this is perfect because the sleaze and so what I was going to say The secret of community is that we don't talk about actually job, Ada says. It's a lot, but it's a communities is a platform for creating platforms. So Kubernetes really is almost built on itself. You can extend Cooper. Netease like communities extends itself with the same semantics that it lets users extended. So Janet was talking about >> becoming the software that is eating the world. Yeah, it >> literally is. So Janet talked about the CRD sees custom resource definitions. It's the same. It's the same mechanism that Kubernetes uses to add new features. So whenever you're using these mechanisms, you're using Kou Burnett. He's basically the Cooper Nate's infrastructure to create. So really, what it is is that this is the tool kit for creating your solutions. What is why I say that Kubernetes is not an end point its its journey. >> So the cloud native system. >> So you know what? Yeah, and I like I like the limits analogy that people talk about. Like Coburn. Eighties is is like clinics. If you think about how Lennox you know little l. Lennox. Yeah. You know, I'm saying little l olynyk sub Let's put together. Yeah, you Burnett. He's like parts of communities would be system. And it's it's all these components come together the creature operating system, and that's the best part about it. >> Okay, so for me, the people that are not the seventy seven hundred that air here give them a little bit of, you know, walk around the show and some of the nooks and crannies that they might not know, like, you know, for myself having been to a number of these like Boy, there were so many half day and full day workshops yesterday there were, like, at least, like fifteen or seventeen or something like that that I saw, You know, obviously there's some of the big keynote. The Expo Hall is sprawling it, you know, I've been toe, you know, fifteen twenty thousand people show here This sex Bohol feels is bustling ahs that one is and well as tons of breakout session. So, you know, give us some of the things that people would have been missing if they didn't come to the show here. >> So just for the record, if you missed the show, you can still watch all the videos online. And then you can also watch the lifestream for keynotes so on. I personally love the applicant the different ways for a customizing covered at ease. So there's Ah, customizing overnight is track. And also there's the apple that applications track and I personally love that. And also I like the color case studies So you can't go to the case studies track to see on different users and users off Cooper, Natty shared. There were war stories, >> Yes, So I think that she will miss. There's a few things that you'll miss if you if you're not here in Barcelona right now, the first thing is that this convention center is huge. It's a ten minute walk from the door to where we're sitting right now, but more seriously, one. The things you'LL miss is that before the conference starts, there are there are a whole bunch of summits, Red had had a summit and fewer people had some. It's yesterday where they talk about things. There's the training sessions, which a lot of cases aren't recorded. And then another thing is that the special interest groups, the cigs. So Cooper ninety six, they all get together and they have faced the face discussions and then generally one from yesterday We're not. We're not recorded. So what you're missing is the people who actually make this big machine turn. They get together face to face and they first of all, they built from a rotary. But they get to discuss items that have require high bit of bandwith that you really can't do over again of issue or email, or even even a slack call like you can actually get this thing solved. And the best thing is watching these people. And then you watch the great ideas that in, you know, three, six months to a year become like, really big thing. So I bet yesterday, so something was discussed. Actually, I know of some things that we discussed yesterday that might fundamentally change how we deal with communities. So that's that is the value of being here and then the third thing is like when you come to a conference like this, where there's almost a thousand people, there's a lot of conversations that happened between, you know, the Expo Hall and the session rooms. And there's, um there's, you know, people are getting jobs here, People are finding new friends and people are learning. And before thing and I'll end with This is that I walk around looking for people who come in on the on the diversity scholarships, and I would not hear their stories if I did not come. So I met two people. I met a young lady from New Zealand who got the scholarship and flew here, you know, and super smart, but is in New Zealand and university, and I get to hear her insights with life. And then I get to share how you could be better in the same thing. I met a gentleman from Zimbabwe yesterday was going to school and take down, and what I hear is that there's so many smart people without opportunities, so if you're looking for opportunities, it's in these halls. There's a lot of people who have either money for you or they have re sources were really doesn't have a job or just you know what? Maybe there's someone you can call whenever you're stuck. So there is a lot of benefit to come into these. If you can get here, >> talent is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not. So I think the diversity scholarship program is one of the most inspirational things I saw mentioned out of a number of inspirational things that >> I know. It's It's my favorite part of communities. You know, I am super lucky that I haven't employees that our employer that can afford to send me here. Then I'm also super lucky that I probably couldn't afford to send myself here if I wanted to. And I do as much as I can to get people >> here. Well, Brian and Janet thank you so much for all you did to put this and sharing it with our community here. I'Ll repeat something that I said in Seattle. Actually, there was a lot of cloud shows out there. But if you're looking for you know, that independent cloud show that you know, lives in this multi hybrid cloud, whatever you wanna call it world you know this is one of the best out there. And the people? Absolutely. If you don't come with networking opportunities, we had into it on earlier, and they talked about how you know, this is the kind of place you come and you find a few people that you could hire to train the hundreds of people inside on all of the latest cloud native pieces. >> Can I say one thing, please? Brian S O, this is This is significant and it's significant for Janet and I. We are in the United States. We are, you know, Janet is a minority and I am a minority. This is the largest open source conference in the world. Siri's This is the largest open source conference in Europe. When we do, when we do, it ended a year. Whenever we do San Diego, it'Ll be the largest open source conference in the world. And look who's running it. You know, my new co chair is also a minority. This is amazing. And I love that. It shows that people who look like us we can come up here and do these things because like you said, opportunity is is, you know, opportunities the hard thing. Talent is everywhere. It's all over the place. And I'm glad we had a chance to do this. >> All right. Well, Brian, Janet, thank you so much for all of that. And Cory and I will be back with more coverage after this brief break. Thank you for watching the cues.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen lots. You buy bread >> and good morning. Welcome to Beantown, Boston, Massachusetts to Mina Mons Hometown by the police Town of residents. John Wallis was stupid from here on the Q. Bert had summit and stew for you. Good to see you here. And a home game. >> Yeah, John, Thanks so much. Nice. You know, Boston, The Cube loves Boston. The B C E C is actually where the first cube event was way back in twenty ten. And we wish there were more conferences here in Boston. Gorgeous weather here in the spring. Ah, little chilly at night with the wind coming off the water, but really good. Here is the sixth year we've had the Cube here, right? Had some in my fifth year at the show. Great energy. And, you know, thirty four billion reasons why people are spending a lot of time keeping a close eye on. Let's just know. Yeah, >> jump right in thirty four billion dollar deal. I am red hatt gotta prove by doj uh, here in the States. But there's still some hurdles that they have to get over in order for that to come to fruition, Maybe later this year. That's the expectation. But just your thoughts right now about about that synergy about that opportunity that that we think is about to have. >> Yeah, so? So right, let's get this piece out of the way. Because here at the conference, we're talking about Red Hat. The acquisition has not completed. So while the CEO of IBM you know Jenny will be up on stage tonight along with, you know, Jim White Hirsi over at Hat and Sakina della, you know, flying in from Seattle, where you might get your name yesterday. So you know, at least two of those three your Cuba Lem's. So we'LL get Jenny on one of these days. But, you know, this is a big acquisition, the largest software acquisition ever, and third largest acquisition in tech history. Now we watched the first biggest tech acquisition in history, which was Del buying AMC just a couple of years ago. And this is not the normal. Okay? Hey, we announced it and you know, it closed quietly in a few months. So as you mentioned, DOJ approved it. There's a few more government agencies Europe needs to go through. You never know what China might ask to come in here, but, you know, really, at the core if you look at it, you know, IBM and Red Hat have worked together for decades. You know, we wrote a lot about this when the announcement happened. You know, IBM is no stranger to open source. IBM is no stranger to the clinics and the areas where Red Hat has been growing and expanded too. You see, IBM, they're so communities, you know, super hot space. If you look, you know, Red hat is they're they're open shift platform, which is what Red Hat does for cloud. Native Development has over a thousand customers. They're adding between one hundred one hundred fifty a quarter is what they talk about publicly. We're gonna have some of those customers on this week. So huge area. That multi cloud hybrid cloud world absolutely is where it's at. We did four days of broadcast from IBM. Think earlier this year in San Francisco. And, you know, once again, Jim white hairs and Jenny were on stage together. They're talking about where they've been working together for a long time. and just, you know, some things will change, but from IBM standpoint, they said, Look, you know, the day after this closes, you know, Red Hat doesn't go away. That had just announced new branding, and everybody's like, Well, why are they changing their branding? You know, when you know IBM is taking over and the answer was, Look, Red Hat's going to stay as a standalone entity. IBM says they're not going to have a single lay off, not even HR consolidation, at least in the beginning. We understand, you know, give me your stuff to work out some of these pieces, but there are ears. They will work together. I look at it. John is like the core. What is the biggest piece of IBM's business is services. That Army of services, both from IBM and all of their Esai partners and everybody they worked with Khun really supercharge and help scale some of the environment that red hats doing so really interesting. Expect them to talk a little bit about it. Red hat is way more transparent than your average company. They had an analyst event like a week or two after it happened, and I was really surprised how much they would tell us and that we could talk about publicly. As I said, just cause I've seen so many acquisitions happen, including some you know, mega ones in the past. And we know how little usually you talk about until it it's done and it's signed. And, you know, the bankers and lawyers have been paid all their fees. >> Let me ask you, you raise an interesting point. Um, you know that there are some different approaches, obviously, between IBM redhead, just in terms of their institutional legacies in terms of processes. Red hat. You mentioned very transparent organization. Open source. Right. So we're all about the rebrand. They come out, you know, the drop shadow, man, They got the hat. What's that cultural mix going to be like? Can they truly run independently? Yeah, they're a big piece. So And if your IBM can you let that run on its own? >> So, John, that is the question most of us have. So, you know, I've worked with Red Hat for coming up on twenty years now, you know, Remember when Lennox was just this mess of colonel dot organ. So much changes that red hat came and gave, you know, adult supervision to help move that forward on. The thing I I wrote about is what Red Hat is really, really good at. If you look at the core, there do is managing that chaos and change on the industry. If you look how many changes happen, toe Lennox, you know every you know, day, week, month and they package all that together and they test all that same thing in Kou Burnett is the same thing in so many different spaces where that open source world is just frenetic and changing. So they're really geared for today's industry. You talk what's the only constant in our industry? John is it is changed. IBM, on the other hand, is like, you know, over one hundred years old, and I tried and true, you know, Big Blue. You know, I ibm is this, you know, the big tanker, you know, it's not like they turn on a dime and you know, rapid pace of change. You think of IBM, you think of innovation. You think of, you know, trust. You think of all the innovations that have come out over the century. Plus do there and absolutely there is a little bit of impeded mismatch there and we'LL see So if ibm Khun truly let them do their own thing and not kind of merged suit groups and take over where the inertia of a larger group can slow things down I hope it will be successful But they're definitely our concerns And time will tell we'll see But you know analytics front You know, they just announced this morning Rehl eight Red hat enterprise linen, you know, just got announced and definitely something will be spent a lot of time So >> let's just jump in a relative Look again, We're gonna hear a little bit later on. We have several folks coming on board to talk aboutthe availability. Now what? What do you see from the outside? Looking at that. What is it going to allow you or us to do that? Seven Didn't know. Where did they improve? Is that on the automation side? Is it being maybe more attentive, Teo Hybrid environment or just What is it about? Really? That makes that special? >> Yes. So you know, first of all, you know these things take a while in the nice thing about being open sources. We've had transparency. If you wanted to know it was going to be in relate. You just look in the Colonel and and it's all out there. They've been working on this since twenty thirteen. Well, seven came out back in June of twenty fourteen. This has been a number of years in the mix. You know, security. The new, like crypto policy is a big piece that that's in their thie bullets that I got when I got the pre briefing on, It was, you know, faster and easier Deploy faster on boarding for non lennox users on, you know, seamless nondestructive migration from earlier versions of rail. So that's one of the things they really want to focus on is that it needs to be predictable, and I need to be able to move from one version the other. If you look at the cloud world, you know, when you don't go asking customers say, Hey, what version of Azure a ws are you running on your running on the latest and greatest? But if you look at traditional shrink wrap software, it was well, what virginity running? Well, I'm running in minus two and Why is that? Because I have to get it. I have to test it out. And then I, you know, find a time that I'm gonna roll that out, work it in my environment. So there is stability and understanding of the release cycle. My understanding is that they're going to do major releases every three years and minor releases every six months. So that cadence a little bit more like the cloud. And as I said, getting from one version a rail to the next should be easier and more non disruptive. Ah, a lot of people are going to want manage offerings where they don't really think about this. I have the latest version because that has not just the latest features but the latest security setting, which, of course, is a major piece of my infrastructure today to make sure that if there was some vulnerability released, I can't wait, You know, six or nine months for me to bake that in there. The limits community's always good have done a good job of getting fixes into it. But how fast can I roll that out into my environment is >> something I would assume that's that's a major factor in any consideration right now is is on the security front, because every day we hear about one more problem and these are just small little issues. These these air are could be multi billion dollar problems. But in terms of making products available today, how Muchmore important? How's that security shift? If you could put a percentage on it used to be, you know, axe and now it's X plus. I mean I mean, what kind of considerations are being given? >> You know what I'd say? Used to be that security got great lip service A. Said it was usually top of mind, but often towards bottom of budget. When you talk to administrators and you say, Oh, hey, where's your last security initiative? And that, like I've had that thing sitting on my desk for the last six months and I haven't had a chance to roll that out. I will get to it, but I want to again. If you go to that cloud operating model. If you talk about you know Dev, Ops movement is, I need to bake security into the process. If I'm doing C i D. It's not, I do something and then think about security afterwards. Security needs to be built in from the ground level. A CZ. You know, I I've heard people in the industry. Security is everyone's responsibility, and security must be baked in everywhere. So from the application all the way down to the chipset, we need to be thinking about security along the bar. Mind it is a board level discussion. Any user you talk too, you know, you don't say, Hey, where's the security sitting? Your priorities. You know, it's up there towards the top, if not vey top, because that's the thing that could put us out of business or, you know, definitely ruin careers. If if it doesn't go >> right, so there are there are probably a couple of platforms, every will or pillars. I think you like to call them that. You're looking forward to learning more about this week. I think in terms of red hats work one of those green hybrid cloud infrastructure, and we'LL get to the other to a little bit. But just your thoughts about how they're addressing that with the products that they offered the services they offer and where they're going in that >> Yeah, so look everything for red at start with rail. Everything is built on Lenox, and that's a good thing, because Lennox Endeavor is everywhere. If last year is that Microsoft ignite for the first time. And when you hear them talking a Microsoft talking about how Lennox is the majority of the environment, more than fifty percent of the environment are running linen goto a ws Same thing. All the cloud deployment Lennox is the preferred substrate underneath and Rehl doing very well to live in all those environment. So what we look at is, you know, some people say, is this olynyk show. It's like, well, at the core. Lin IX is the piece of it and relate the latest and greatest substantiation. But everywhere you go, there's going to be Lennox there from doing container ization. If a building on top of it with the the new cloud native models, it's there. And if you talk about how I get from my data center to a multi cloud environment, it's building things like Cooper Netease, which read that of course, uses open shift and you know those ties to eight of us and azure and you know, Google they're all there. So we mention Santina della's on stage tonight at Microsoft build. Yesterday there was announcement of this thing called Kita ke e d A, which has, like as your functions and ties in with open shift and spend a little time squinting it, trying to tease it apart. We've got some guests this week that'LL hopefully give some clarity, but it is. The answer is people today have multiple clouds and they have a lot of different ways they want. They want to do things, and Red has going to make sure that they help bridge the gap and simplify those environments across the board. Two years ago, when we were at the show big announcement about how open shift integrates with a W s so that if I'm using a ws But I want to have things in my environment still leverage some of those services. That was something that that Red had announced. I was, you know, quite impressed a time it was, you know, just last week being at the Del Show, it's V m. Where is the del strategy for how they get you know, A W, S, G, C, P and Azure and, you know, Red Hat does that themselves. Their software company. They live in all these cloud worlds, and therefore, open shift will help you extend from your data center through all of those public cloud environments on DH, you know? Yeah. So it's fascinating >> you've talked about Lennox to we're going to hear a little bit later on to about a fascinating the global economic study, that Red Hat Commission with the I. D. C. Of that talks about this ten trillion dollar impact of Lennox around the globe like to dive into that a little bit later on. >> Yeah, well, it's interesting, you know, it's the line I used is you say, and you say, Oh, well, how much impact is Lennox had? You know? You know, Red hats now, a three billion dollar company. That's good. But I was like, Okay, let's just take Google. You know, no slots of a company. Google underneath. It's not Red Hat Lennox, but Lennox is the foundation. I don't really think that Google could become the global search and advertising powerhouse they were. If it wasn't for Lennox to be able to help them get environment, there's a CZ we always talk with these technologies. You talk about Lennox, you talk about How do you talk about, you know, Cooper Netease? There are companies that will monetize it, but the real value is what business models and creation by. You know, all the enterprise is the service riders in the hyper scales that those technologies help enable. And that's where open source really shines is, you know, the order of magnitude network effect, that open source solutions have that its you say okay, three billion dollars? And is that what ten trillion dollars? It doesn't faze me, doesn't surprise me at all, but because my attention it look it. I'm not trying to trivialize. There's no But, you know, I've been watching clinics for twenty years, and I've seen the ripples of that effect. And if you dig down underneath your often finding it inside, >> I mentioned pillars that you were talking about cloud native development being another. But automation, let's just hit on that real quick before we head off on DH just again, with how that is being, I guess, highlighted. Or that's a central focus at and relate and and what automation? How that's playing in there I guess the new efficiencies they're trying to squeeze out. >> Yes. So? So what we always looked for it shows you're probably the last year is you know, you. How are they getting beyond the buzzwords? Aye, aye. When you talk about automation on area that that we've really enjoyed digging into is like robotic process automation. How do I take something that was manual? And maybe it was a fish injure? Not great. How can I make it perfectly efficient and use software robots to do that? So where are the places where I know that the amount of change and the scale and the growth that we have that I couldn't just put somebody to keyboard, you know, and have them typing or even a dashboard to be able to monitor and keep up with things? If I don't have the automation and intelligence in the system to manage things, I can't reach the scale and the growth that I need to. So where are you know, real solutions that are helping customers, you know, get over a little bit of the fear of Oh, my gosh, I'm losing a job. Or will this work or will this keep my business running and oh, my gosh, this will actually enabled me to be able to grow work on that security issue if I need to, rather than some of the other pieces and help really allow it agility to meet the requirements of what the business requires to help me move forward. So those are some of the things we kind of look across the shows. So, you know? Yeah. How much do we get? You know, buzzword, Bingo at the show. Where How much do we hear? You know, real customers with real solutions digging in and having, you know, new technologies that a couple of years ago would have had a saying, Wow, that's magic. >> But you say, Oh, my gosh. Yeah, and I don't want gosh right back with more. You're watching to serve the cube with the red had summit. We're in Boston, Massachusetts, that we'll be back with more coverage right after this

>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Cloud next nineteen, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is Day three of Google Cloud. Next, you're watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. The cube goes out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Volante. I'm here with my co host to minimum. John Farrier has been here >> all week. Wall to wall >> coverage, three days. Check out cube dot net for all the videos. Silicon angle dot com For all the news, Eric Brewer is here is the vice president of Infrastructure and a Google fellow. Dr Breuer, Thanks for coming on The Cube. >> Happy to be here to see >> you. So tell us the story of sort of infrastructure and the evolution at Google. And then we'll talk about how you're you're taking what you've learned inside a googol and helping customers apply it. >> Yeah, one or two things about Google is it essentially makes no use of virtual machines internally. That's because Google started in nineteen ninety eight, which is the same year that VM where started it was kind of brought the modern virtual machine to bear. And so good infrastructure tends to be built really on kind of classic Unix processes on communication. And so scaling that up, you get a system that works a lot with just prophecies and containers. So kind of when I saw containers come along with Doctor who said, Well, that's a good model for us and we could take what we know internally, which was called Boring a big scheduler and we could turn that into Cooper Netease and we'LL open source it. And suddenly we have kind of a a cloud version of Google that works the way we would like it to work a bit more about the containers and AP eyes and services rather than kind of the low level infrastructure. >> Would you refer from from that comment that you essentially had a cleaner sheet of paper when when containers started to ascend, I >> kind of feel like it's not an accident. But Google influenced Lena Lennox's use of containers right, which influenced doctors use of containers, and we kind of merged the two concepts on. It became a good way to deploy applications that separates the application from the underlying machine instead of playing a machine and OS and application together, we'd actually like to separate those and say we'LL manage the Western machine and let's just deploy applications independent of machines. Now we can have lots of applications for machine improved realization. Improve your productivity. That's kind of way we're already doing internally what was not common in the traditional cloud. But it's actually a more productive way to work, >> Eric. My backgrounds and infrastructure. And, you know, I was actually at the first doctor. Calm back in twenty fourteen, only a few hundred of us, you know, right across the street from where we were here. And I saw the Google presentation. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I lived through that wave of virtual ization, and the nirvana we want is I want to just be able to build my application, not worry about all of those underlying pieces of infrastructure we're making progress for. We're not there. How are we doing as an industry as a whole? And, you know, get Teo, say it's where are we? And what Google looking that Cooper, Netease and all these other pieces to improve that. What do you still see is the the the room for growth. >> Well, it's pretty clear that you Burnett is one in the sense that if you're building new applications for enterprise, that's currently the way you would build them now. But it doesn't help you move your legacy stuff on it for, say, help you move to the cloud. It may be that you have worth loads on Crim that you would like to modernize their on V EMS or bare metal, their traditional kind of eighties APS in Java or whatever. And how does Cooper Netease affect those? That's that's actually still place where I think things are evolving. The good news now is much easier to mix kind of additional services and new services using SDO and other things on GC people contain arising workloads. But actually it would say most people are actually just do the new stuff in Cooper Netease and and wrapped the old stuff to make it look like a service that gets you pretty far. And then over time you khun containerized workloads that you really care about. You want to invest in and what's new with an so so you can kind of make some of those transitions on fram. Ifyou'd like separate from moving to the cloud and then you can decide. Oh, this workload goes in the cloud. This work load. I need to keep on priming for awhile, but I still want to modernize it of a lot more flexibility. >> Can you just parts that a little bit for us? You're talking about the migration service that that's that's coming out? Or is it part of >> the way the Val Estrada work, which is kind of can take a V M A. Converted to a container? It's a newer version of that which really kind of gives you a A manifest, essentially for the container. So you know what's inside it. You can actually use it as in the modern way. That's migration tool, and it's super useful. But I kind of feel like even just being able to run high call the Communities on Crim is a pretty useful step because you get to developer velocity, you get released frequency. You get more the coupling of operations and development, so you get a lot of benefits on treme. But also, when you move to cloud, you could go too geeky and get a you know, a great community experience whenever you're ready to make that transition. >> So it sounds like that what you described with Santos is particularly on from pieces like an elixir to help people you know more easily get to a cloud native environment and then, ultimately, Brigitte to the >> class. That's kind of like we're helping people get cloud native benefits where they are right now. On a day on their own time. Khun decide. You know not only when to move a workload, but even frankly, which cloud to move it to right. We prefer, obviously moved to Google Cloud, and we'LL take our chances because I think these cattle native applications were particularly good at. But it's more important that they are moving to this kind of modern platform but helps them, and it increases our impact on the Indus. Sory to have this happen. >> Help us understand the nuance there because there's obvious benefits of being in the public cloud. You know, being able to rent infrastructure op X versus cap packs and manage services, etcetera. But to the extent that you could bring that cloud experience, Tio, you're on premises to your data. That's what many people want to have that hybrid experience for sure. But but other than that, the obvious benefits that I get from a public cloud, what are the other nuances of actually moving into the public cloud from experience standpoint in the business value perspective? >> Well, one question is, how much rewriting do you have to do because it's a big transition? Moved a cloud that's also big transition to rewrite some of your applications. So in this model, we're actually separating those two steps, and you can do them in either order. You can lift and shift to move to cloud and then modernize it, but it's also perfectly fine. I'm gonna modernize on Graham, read my do my rewrites in a safe controlled environment that I understand this low risk for me. And then I'm going to move it to the cloud because now I have something that's really ready for the cloud and has been thought through carefully that way on that having those two options is actually an important change. With Anthony >> Wavered some stats. I think Thomas mentioned them that eighty percent of the workloads are still on prams way here. That all the time. And some portion of those workloads are mission critical workloads with a lot of custom code that people really don't want to necessarily freeze. Ah, and a lot of times, if you gonna migrate, you have to free. So my question is, can I bring some of those Antos on other Google benefits to on Prem and not have to freeze the code, not have to rewrite just kind of permanently essentially, uh, leave those there and it take my other stuff and move it into the cloud? Is that what people are doing? And can I >> work? Things mix. But I would say the beachhead is having well managed Cooper and his clusters on Prem. Okay, you can use for new development or a place to do your read rights or partial read writes. You convicts V EMS and mainframes and Cooper Netease. They're all mix herbal. It's not a big problem, especially this to where it could make him look like they're part of the same service >> on framework, Right? >> S o. I think it's more about having the ability to execute modern development on prim and feel like you're really being able to change those acts the way you want and on a good timeline. >> Okay, so I've heard several times this week that Santos is a game changer. That's how Google I think is looking at this. You guys are super excited about it. So one would presume then that that eighty percent on Prem is gonna just gonna really start to move. What your thoughts on that? >> I think the way to think about it is all the customs you talked to actually do want to move there were close to cloud. That's not really the discussion point anymore. It's more about reasons they can't, which could be. They already have a data center. They fully paid for two. There's regulatory issues they have to get resolved to. This workload is too messy. They don't want to touch it at all. The people that wrote it are here anymore. There's all kinds of reasons and so it's gone. I feel like the essence of it is let's just interacted the customer right now before they make a decision about their cloud on DH, help them and in exchange for that, I believe we have a much better chance to be their future clown, right? Right, Because we're helping them. But also, they're starting to use frameworks that were really good at all. Right, if they're betting on coordinates containers, I like our chances for winning their business down the road. >> You're earning their trust by providing those those capabilities. >> That's really the difference. We can interact with those eighty percent of workloads right now and make them better. >> Alright. So, Eric, with you, the term we've heard a bunch this meat, we because we're listening customers where we're meeting them where they are now. David Iran analyst. So we could tell customers they suck out a lot stuff. You should listen to Google. They're really smart, and they know how to do these things, right? Hopes up. Tell us some of those gaps there is to the learnings you've had. And we understand. You know, migrations and modernization is a really challenging thing, you know? What are some of those things that customers can do toe >> that's on the the basic issues. I would say one thing you get you noticed when using geeky, is that huh? The os has been passed for me magically. All right, We had these huge security issues in the past year, and no one on G had to do anything right. They didn't restart their servers. We didn't tell them. Oh, you get down time because we have to deal with these massive security tax All that was magically handled. Uh, then you say, Oh, I want to upgrade Cooper Netease. Well, you could do that yourself. Guess what? It's not that easy to do. Who Burnett is is a beast, and it's changing quickly every quarter. That's good in terms of velocity and trajectory, and it's the reason that so many people can participate at the same time. If you're a group trying to run communities on Prem, it's not that easy to do right, So there's a lot of benefit Justin saying We update Custer's all the time. Wear experts at this way will update your clusters, including the S and the Cuban A's version, and we can give you modern ing data and tell you how your clusters doing. Just stuff. It honestly is not core to these customers, right? They want to focus on there advertising campaign or their Their oil and gas were close. They don't want to focus on cluster management. So that's really the second thing >> they got that operating model. If I do Antos in my own data center of the same kind of environment, how do we deal with things like, Well, I need to worry about change management testing at all my other pieces Most of the >> way. The general answer to that is, you use many clusters. You could have a thousand clusters on time. If you want that, there's good reason to do that. But one reason is, well, upgrade the clusters individually so you could say, Let's make this cluster a test cluster We'LL upgrade it first and we'LL tell you what broke. If anything, if you give us tests we can run the test on then once we're comfortable that the upgrade is working, we'LL roll it out to all your clusters. Automatic thing with policy changes. You want to change your quota management or access control. We can roll up that change in a progressive way so that we do it first on clusters that are not so critical. >> So I gotta ask a question. You software guy, Uh and you're approaching this problem from a real software perspective. There are no box. I don't see a box on DH there. Three examples in the marketplace as your stack er, Oracle Clouded customer and Amazon Outpost Where there's a box. A box from Google. Pure software. Why no box? Do you need a box? The box Guys say you gotta have that. You have a box? Yes, you don't have a box, >> There's it's more like I would say, You don't have to have a box >> that's ever box. Okay, that's >> because again all these customers sorting the data center because they already have the hardware, right. If they're going to buy new hardware, they might as well move to cloud the police for some of the customers. And it turns out we can run on. Most of their hardware were leveraging VM wear for that with the partnership we announced here. So that's generally works. But that being said, we also now partnerships with Dell and others about if you want a box Cisco, Dell, HP. You can Actually, we'LL have offerings that way as well, and there's certainly good reason to do that. You can get up that infrastructure will know it works well. It's been tested, but the bottom line is, uh, we're going to do both models. >> Yeah, okay. So I could get a full stack from hardware through software. Yet through the partnerships on there's Your stack, >> Right And it'll always come from Partners were really working with a partner model for a lot of these things because we honestly don't have enough people to do all the things we would like to do with these customers. >> And how important is it that that on Prem Stack is identical from homogeneous with what's in the public cloud? Is it really? It sounds like you're cooking growing, but their philosophies well, the software components have to be >> really at least the core pieces to be the same, like Uber Netease studio on a policy management. If youse open source things like my sequel or Kafka or elastic, those auto operate the same way as well, right? So that when you're in different environments, you really kind of get the feeling of one environment one stroll plane used. Now that being said, if you want to use a special feature like I want to use big query that's only available on Google Cloud right, you can call it but that stuff won't be portable. Likewise is something you want to use on Amazon. You can use it, and that part will be portable. But at least you'LL get the most. Your infrastructure will be consistent across the platforms. >> How should we think about the future? You guys, I mean, just without giving away, you know, confidential information, obviously not going to do that, but just philosophically, Were you going when you talk to customers? What should their mindset be? How should they repeat preparing for the future? >> Well, I think it's a few bets were making. So you know, we're happy to work on kind of traditional cloud things with Bush machines and discs and lots of classic stuff that's still important. It's still needed. But I would say a few things that are interesting that we're pushing on pretty hard won in general. This move to a higher level stack about containers and AP eyes and services, and that's Cuba nowadays and SDO and its genre. But then the other thing I think interesting is we're making a pretty fundamental bit on open source, and it's a it's a deeper bad, then others air making right with partnerships with open source companies where they're helping us build the manage version of there of their product on. So I think that's that's really going to lead to the best experience for each of those packages, because the people that developed that package are working on it right, and we will share revenue with them. So it's it's, uh, Cooper. What is open source? Tension flows open. Source. This is kind of the way we're going to approach this thing, especially for a hybrid and mostly cloud where they're really in my mind is no other way to do multi cloud other than open source because it's the space is too fast moving. You're not going to say, Oh, here's a standard FBI for multi cloud because whatever a pair you define is going to be obsolete in a quarter or two, right? What we're saying is, the standard is not particular standard per se. It's the collection of open source software that evolves together, and that's how you get consistency across the environment is because the code is the same and in fact there is a standard. But we don't even know what it is exactly right. It's it's implicit in the code, >> Okay, but so any other competitors say, Okay, we love open source, too, will embrace open stores. What's different about Google's philosophy? >> Well, first of all, you could just look at a very high level of contribution back into the open source packages, not just the ones that were doing. You can see we've contributed things like the community's trademark so that that means it's actually not a Google thing anymore. Belonged to the proud Native Reading Foundation. But also, the way we're trying to partner with open source projects is really to give them a path to revenue. All right, give them a long term future on DH. Expectation is, that makes the products better. And it also means that, uh, we're implicitly preferred partner because we're the ones helping them. All >> right, Eric, One of things caught our attention this week really kind of extending containers with things like cloud code and cloud run. You speak a little bit to that and you know directionally where that's going, >> Yeah, crowd runs one of my favorite releases of this week. Both the one God code is great, also, especially, it's V s code integration which is really nice for developers. But I would say the cloud run kind of says we can take you know, any container that has a kind of a stateless thing inside and http interface and make it something we can run for you in a very clean way. What I mean by that is you pay per call and in particular Well, listen twenty four seven and case it call comes But if no call comes, we're going to charge you zero, right? So we'll eat the cost of listening for your package to arrive. But if a packet arrives for you, we will magically make sure you're there in time to execute it on. If you get a ton of connections, we'll scale you up. We could have a thousand servers running your cloud run containers. And so what you get is a very easy deployment model That is a generalization. Frankly, of functions, you can run a function, but you also run not only a container with kind of a managed run time ap engine style, but also any arbitrary container with your own custom python and image processing libraries. Whatever you want, >> here are our last guest at Google Cloud next twenty nineteen. So thank you. And so put a bow on the show this year. Obviously got the bigger, better shiny er Mosconi Center. It's awesome. Definitely bigger crowd. You see the growth here, but but tie a bow. Tell us what you think. Take us home. >> I have to say it's been really gratifying to see the reception that anthrax is getting. I do think it is a big shift for Google and a big shift for the industry. And, uh, you know, we actually have people using it, so I kind of feel like we're at the starting line of this change. But I feel like it's it's really resonated well this week, and it's been great to watch the reaction. >> Everybody wants their infrastructure to be like Google's. This is one of the people who made it happen. Eric, Thanks very much for coming in the Cube. Appreciate. Pleasure. All right, keep right, everybody. We'Ll be back to wrap up Google Cloud next twenty nineteen. My name is David. Dante. Student meant John Furry will be back on set. You're watching. The cube will be right back