>>Welcome back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of day, one of the snowflake summit 22 live from seizures forum in Las Vegas. I'm Lisa Martin. My co-host for the week is Dave ante, Dave and I are pleased to welcome Naga Raj Sastry to the program, the vice president of data and analytics at HCL technologies. Welcome. Great to have you. >>Same here. Thank you for inviting me here. >>Isn't it great to be back in person? >>Oh, love it. >>This the keynote this morning. I don't know if you had a chance to see it standing room only there was overflow rooms. People are ready for this, and it was a jam packed morning of announcements. >>Absolutely. >>Talk to us a little bit about the HCL snowflake partnership, but anybody in the audience who may not be familiar with HCL, give us a little bit of a background, vision, mission differentiation, and then that snowflake duo. >>Sure, sure. So let me first start off with, um, uh, talking about H at seal, we are 11.5 billion organization. Uh, we have three modes of working mode. One is everything to do with our infrastructure business and application services and maintenance mode. Two is anything that we do in the cutting edge, uh, ecosystem, whether it is cloud, whether it is application modernization, ERPs, uh, SA all of those put together is more to data. Analytics is part of our more to culture. Um, the whole ecosystem is called digital services business and, uh, within digital, uh, services, the one of the arms is data and analytics. We are about a billion dollars in terms of revenues from a data and analytics perspective, uh, of the 11 billion that I was talking to you about. And mode three is everything to do with our software services. So we have got our own software products, and that's a third of our business. So that's about HCL. So at C and, uh, snowflake relationship, we are a elite partner with snowflake. We are one of the fastest growing partners. We achieved the elite level within 18 months of us signing up as a snowflake partner. We're close to about 50 plus implementations worldwide, and, uh, about 800 people who are snowflake professionals within, within that CLE ecosystem, large customers that we serve. >>And how long have you been partners? >>Uh, about 18 to 20 months now. >>Okay. So, so the, during the last couple of tumultuous years, why snowflake, what was it about their vision, their strategy, their leadership that really to spoke to HCL as this is a partner for us? >>So, so one of the, uh, biggest things that we realized, uh, probably about four years ago was in terms of, you know, you had all the application databases or RDBMSs PPS, the huddle P ecosystems, which are getting expense systems, which were getting expensive, not in terms of the cost, but in terms of the pro processing times, the way the queries were getting created. And we knew that there was, there is something that is going to come and the people and the people. Yeah. >>And, uh, and we knew that, you know, there will be a hyperscaler that will come. And, uh, of course there was Azure was already there. AWS was there, Google was just picking it up. And at that point in time, we realized that, you know, there will be a cloud data warehouse because we had started reading about snowflake at that point in time. So fast forward a couple of years after that, and we realized that if we are to be in this business, you know, the, the right way of doing it is by getting partnering a partnering with the right tooling company. And snowflake brings that to table. We all know that now. And, uh, with, with what, what the keynote speakers were also saying, right, from 150 member team about five years ago in, uh, conference to about 12,000 people now. So you know that this is the right thing to do, and this is the right place to be at. So we, we devised a methodology in terms of saying that let's get into the partnership, let's get our resources trained and certified on the snowflake ecosystem. And let's take a point of view to our customers in terms of how data migrations and transformations have to be done in the snowflake arena. When >>You, when you think about your modes, you talked about modes one, two, and three. If I feel like snowflake touches on each of those, maybe not so much of the infrastructure and the apps, but although maybe going forward, it does increasingly. So, yeah, that's my question is where do you see snowflake vectoring into your modes? >>So it doesn in both in the first two modes, uh, and mode three also, uh, because, and I'll give you the reasons why mode one is predominantly because you can do application development on cloud yep. On the data cloud now, um, which basically means that I can have a qu application run on snowflake. Eventually that's the goal. Second is, uh, in, in more two, because it is a cloud data warehouse, it fits in exactly because the application data is in snowflake. I've got my, uh, regular data sets within snowflake. Both are talking to each other. There is zero, um, lapse time from a user perspective, >>It's a direct >>Tip. And then more three, the reason why I said more three was because software as a service or software services and products is because I can power by snowflake. I can implement that. So that's why it cuts across our entire ecosystem. >>The, the dig, the whole thing is called your dig business, correct? Yes. Is that right? So that's, this is the, the next wave of digital business that we're seeing here, cuz it's digital is data <laugh> right. That's really what it's about. It's about putting that data to work. >>So the president of our digital business, a BJA who was, who had done the, who had done a session in the, in the afternoon today, he says the D in the digital is data. >>There is right. >>And, uh, that's what we are seeing with our customers, large implementations that we do in this ecosystem. There is one other thing that we are focusing, uh, very heavily on is industrial solutions or industry led solutions. Like whether it is for healthcare, whether it's for retail or financial services, name, a vertical. And we have got our own capabilities around industrialized solutions that's fit that fit certain use cases. >>So in thinking about the D in, in digital is really data. If you think about the operating model for data, it's obviously evolved, you mentioned, had do, went to the cloud and all the data went to the cloud, but today it's, you've got an application development model, you got database, which is sort of hardened. And then you've got your data pipeline and your, your data stack and, and that's kind of the operating model. There's sort of siloed to a great degree. Mm-hmm <affirmative> how is that operating model changing as a result of, of data? So >>I answered it in two parts. Part is if you, if you realize over the years, what used to happen is you had a CIO in an organization or C more CIO, but, and then you had enterprise architecture teams, application development teams, support teams, and so on and so forth in the last 36 months. If you see there is an emergence of a new role, which is called the da chief data and analytics officer. So the data and analytics officer is a role that has been created. And the purpose of creating that role is to ensure that organizations will pull out our call out resources within the CIO organizations who are enterprise architects, who are data architects, who are application architects or security architects, and bring them under into the ecosystem of the data office from an operating model perspective. So that innovations can be driven. >>Data driven enterprises could be created and innovations can come through there. The other part of that is the use cases get prioritized when you start innovating. And then it is a factory model in terms of how those use cases get built, which is, which is, which is a no brainer in my mind, at least. But that is how the operating model is coming up from a people perspective, from a technology perspective. Also there is an operating model that is emerging. If you see all the hyperscalers that are there today, snowflake with its LA most latest and greatest announcements. If you see the way the industry is going, is everything will be housed into one ecosystem and the beauty of this entire thing. And if you, you are to, you'll be able to fathom it effectively, right? Because if you are, if I'm, multi-cloud kind of an environment and if I'm on snowflake, I don't care why, because I'm snowflake, which is, which can work around across the multi clouds. So my data is in one place >>Effectively. Yeah. It's interesting what you were saying about the chief data officer, the chief data officer, that role emerged out of the, the ashes, like a Phoenix of, of, you know, compliance data quality and, and healthcare and financial services and government, the highly regulated industries. And then it took a while, but it, it increasingly became, wow, this is a really front front of the board level role, if you will, you know, data, and now you're seeing it. It's it's, it is integrated with digital. >>Absolutely. And there is one other point, if you think about it, the emergence of the chief data officer came in because there were issues associated to data quality. Yeah. There were issues associated to data cataloging as to how data is cataloged. And there were issues in terms of trustability of the data. Now, the trustability of the data can be in two places. One is a data quality, Hey, bad data, garbage and garbage out. But then the other aspect of the trustability is in terms of, can I do the seven CS of data quality and say that, okay, I can hallmark this data platinum or gold or silver or bronze or UN hallmark data. And with snowflake, the advantage is if I, if you have a hallmark data set, that is a, say a platinum or a gold, and thanks to the virtual warehouse, the same data set gets penetrated across the enterprise. That's the beauty with which it comes. And then of course the metadata aspect of it, bringing in the technical metadata and the business metadata together for the purpose of creating the data catalogs is another key cool thing and enabled again by snowflake. >>What are some of it when you're in customer conversations, some of the myths or misconceptions that customers historically have typically been making when it comes to creating a data strategy, some of the misconceptions, and then what is your recommendation for those folks since every company, these days to be competitive has to be a data company. >>Yeah. So around data structures, the, the whole thought process has to be, uh, either do in the past, we used to go with, from source applications, we would gather requirements. Then we would figure out what sources are there, do a profiling of the data and then say, okay, the target data, data model should be this >>Too slow, >>Too slow right now, fast forward to the digital transformation. There is producers of data, which is basically that applications that are being modernized today are producers of data. They're actually telling you that I'm producing this kind of data. This is the kind of events that I'm producing. And this is my structure. Now the whole deal is I don't need to figure out what the requirements are. I know what the use case the application is going to be helping me with. So therefore the entire data model is supported. So, but at the same point in time, the newer generation applications that are getting created are not only created getting created in terms of the customer experience. Of course, that is very critical, but they're also taking into account aspects around metadata, the technical metadata associated within an application, the data quality rules or business rules that are implemented within an application, all of that is getting documented as a result, the whole timeline from source to profile to model, which used to be X number of days in the past is X minus, at least 20% now or 30% actually. So that is how the structures, uh, the data structures are coming into a play future futuristic thought process would be, there will be producers of data and there'll be consumers of data. Where is ETL then or ELT. Then there is not going to be any ETL or ELT because a producer is going to say that I'm producing the data for this. A consumer says that, okay, I wanna consume the data for this purpose. There, they meet through an API layer. So where is ETL eventually going to go away? >>Well, and those consumers of, if you think about the, the way it works today, the, the data operating model, if you will, the transaction systems and other systems draw off a bunch of exhaust, they gets thrown over the fence to the analytics system. They're not operation the data, the data pipeline, the data systems are not operationalized in a way that they need to be. And obviously Snowflake's trying to change that. >>So data >>That's a big change, please. >>Yeah. Sorry. Didn't mean to cut you off. My >>Apologies. No, no. I'm >>So data operations is a very, very critical aspect. And if you think about it holistically, we used to have ETL pipelines T pipelines. And then we used to have queries being written on top of metadata or PPS and HaLoop and all of that and reporting tools that would have number of reports that were created and certain self-service BI reports into the ecosystem. Now, when you think in terms of a cloud data warehouse, what is happening? Is this the way you are architecting your solution today in terms of data pipelines, those data pipelines are self manageable or self-healing do not need the number of people where there was no documentation in terms of what ETL pipelines were written in the past on certain ETL tools or why something is failing. Nobody knew why something was failing because these are age old code, but take it forward today. >>What happens is our organizations are migrating from on-prem to cloud and to the cloud data warehouse. And the overall cost of ownership is decreasing. The reason is the way we are implementing the data pipelines, the way the data operations are being done in terms of, you know, even before a pipeline is kicked, uh, or kicked in, then, you know, there is a check process to say whether the source application is ready or not ready. So such things, small, small things, which are part and parcel of the entire data operations lifecycle are taking the center stage as a result, self fueling mechanisms are coming in. And because of those self fueling mechanisms, metrics are being captured as a result, you know exactly where to focus on and where not to focus on as, as a result, the number of resources needed to support gets reduced. Cost of one service >>Is low, much higher trust self-service infrastructure, uh, data context in the hands of, of business users. Data is now more discoverable it's governed. So you can now create data products more quickly. So speed and scale become extremely important. >>Absolutely. And in fact, one of the things that, that, uh, that is changing is the way search is getting implemented here to in the past, you created an index and then, you know, the data is searchable, but now it is contextual search. Can I contextualize the entire search? Can I create a machine learning algorithm that will actually say that, okay, Nara as a persona was looking for this kind of data and then Nara as a person, or comes back again and looks for some different kind of data. Can the machine learning algorithm go and figure out, okay, what is, what is going on in a garage's mind? What is he trying to look at? And then, you know, improve the, the whole learnability of the, of the entire algorithm. That's how search is going to also take, get into a change kind of a scenario. >>Excellent NAAU garage. Thank you so much for joining us, talking about data modernization at speed, end scale HCL, what you're doing, what you're doing with snowflake, and the sounds like incredible power that you're enabling. And we're only just scratching the surface. I have a feeling there's a lot more under there that you guys are gonna uncover. >>Sure. So we have, we have a tool or an accelerator. We call it an accelerator in the HCL parlance, but just actually a tool. So when you think about data modernization onto snowflake, it is predominantly migrating the data set from your existing ecosystem onto snowflake. That is one aspect of it. The second aspect of it is the modernization of the ETL or E LT pipelines. The third aspect associated to the data that is there within this, these ecosystems is the reconciliation older application, uh, sorry, older legacy, uh, platform snowflake legacy platform gives me result. X does snowflake give me result X that kind of a reconciliation has to be done. Data reconciliation and testing. And then the third fourth layer associated is the reporting and visualization. So these four layers are part and parcel of something that we call as advantage. Migrate advantage migrate will convert your ter data, data, uh, model into a snowflake understandable data model automatically whether it's ter data, whether it is Oracle, extra data, green plum, <inaudible> you name a ecosystem. >>We have the mechanism to convert a data model from whatever it is into snowflake readable, understandable data model. The second aspect is the et L E L T pipeline. Whether you want to go from Informatica to DBT or Informatica to something else or data stage to something else doesn't matter. There is a, there is an algorithm, or there is a tool which is called the ETL pipeline. We call it gateway suit, gateway suit actually converts the code. It reads the code that is there on the left hand side, which is the legacy code, understands the logic, it reverse engineers and understands the logic. And then what it does is we use that understanding or that logic that has been called out into spark code or DBT or any other tool of your choice from a customer standpoint. That's the second layer. Third layer I talked about, which is basically data testing, automated data testing and data reconciliation and the last, but not the least is the reporting because older ways of reporting and visualization with, with current day reporting and visualization, which is more persona based, the art of visualization is something difficult or different in this, in this aspect, come over to our booth at 2 1, 1 4, and you'll see, uh, advantage migrate in the works >>Advantage. Migrate. There you go. Nero, thank you so much for joining us on the program and unpacking HCL, giving us really that technical dissection of what you guys are doing and together with snowflake. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you >>For our guest and Dave ante. This is Lisa Martin live from the show floor of snowflake summit 22, Dave and I will be right back with our final guest of day one in just a minute.

>>The queue presents Coon and cloud native con Europe, 2022, brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome to Valencia Spain and Coon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith towns, along with Paul Gillon, senior editor, enterprise architecture, Silicon angle. We are going to talk to some amazing folks, especially in today's segment. Paul there's a lot of companies here, like what what's been the, the consistent theme you've heard so far in the show. >>Well, you know, one thing that's different from this show, it seems to me than others I've attended is it's all around open source. We're not seeing a lot of companies bringing new proprietary technology to market. We are seeing them try to piece together, open source components with some kind of, perhaps there's a proprietary element to it, but to create some kind of a, a common management interface or control plane, and that's quite different from what I think we've seen in the past and open source business models have been difficult to make work historically. And these companies are all taking their, their own approaches to it. But I think the, the degree to which this, the people here of coalesced around the importance of open source is building blocks to the future of, of applications is something I've not seen quite this way before. >>Well, with our current segment guests, we're gonna go deep into kind of these challenges and how enterprises are addressing, and their partners are addressing with those challenges we have with us, a flower head of cloud native HCL technologies. We'll get into how a system integrator is helping with this transition to Ramon neon, senior product manager, redhead. Welcome to the show. You're now cute. Alum. Welcome. >>Thanks for having us. >>So we're gonna get right off, off the bat. We're gonna talk about this. What are some of the trends you're seeing when it comes to application migration? You've done, I'm assuming at this point, thousands of them, what are some of the common trends? >>Well, it's a very good question. And clearly a C we've helped thousands of clients move tens of thousands of applications to what we would call a cloud native, you know, environment. I think the overwhelming trend that we're seeing of course is clients realize it's a particularly complex, sophisticated journey. It requires a certain set of skills and capability clients increasingly asking us for anything that we can do to simplify and accelerate the journey, cuz what's really important to clients. If you're on a transformation journey to cloud is you wanna see some value very quickly. So I don't wanna wait three to five years to transform my applications portfolio. If you can do something in three to five days, that would be perfect. Thank you. >>Well, three to five days, that sounds more akin to when we were doing P to V or V to V migrations, I'm sure HCL is at this point done in the millions of those types of migrations. What are some of the challenges or the nuance in doing a traditional migration from a traditional MI monolithic application to a cloud native? >>Well, it's another good question. Of course you notice that there's a general trend in the industry. Clients don't really want to lift and shift anymore. Lift and shift doesn't really bring any transformational value to my, to my company. So clients are looking for increasingly what we could call cloud native modernization. I want my applications to really take advantage of the cloud native environment. They need to be elastic and kind of more robust than maybe before now in particular, I think a lot of clients have realized that this state of Nirvana, which was we're gonna modernize everything to be a cloud native microservices based application. That is a tremendous journey, but no client really has the time patient or resources to fully refactor or rearchitect all of their applications. They're looking for more immediate kind of impact. So a key trend that we've seen of course is clients still want to refactor and modernize applications, but they're focusing those resources on those applications that will bring greater impact to their business. >>What they now see as a better replacement for lift and shift is probably what we would call replatforming, where they want all of the advantages of a cloud native environment, but they haven't necessarily got the time to modernize the code base. They wanna refactor to Kubernetes and re replatform to Kubernetes in particular, and they want us to take them there quickly. And that's why, for example, this week at cuon eight sellers announced a new set of tools called KMP based on conveyor, an open source project supported by red hat. And the key attraction of KMP is it lets me replatform my applications to Kubernetes immediately, right? Within two or three minutes, I can bring an application from a legacy platform directly onto Kubernetes and I can take it straight into production. That's the kind of acceleration that clients are looking for today. Isn't >>That just a form of lift and shift though? >>Well, no lift and shift typically of course, was moving virtual machines from one place to another. You know, the focus of Kubernetes of course is containerization of solutions. And it's not just about containerizing the solution and movement. It it's the DevOps tool chain around the solution as well. And of course, when I take that application into production in a Kubernetes based environment, I'm expecting to operate it in a different way as well. So that's where we see tremendous focus on what we would call cloud native operations clients expecting to use practices like site reliability engineering, to run these replatformed applications in a different way to, >>It sounds like you're saying, I mean, replatforming has been a, a spectrum of options. I think Gartner has seven different types of platforming. Are you seeing clients take more mature attitude now to replatforming? Are they looking more carefully at the characteristics of their legacy applications and, and try to try to make maybe more nuanced choices about what to replatform, what to just leave >>Alone? I think clients and I I'm sure Ramon's got some comments on this too, but clients have a lot more insight now in terms of what works for them. They they've realized that this, this promise of maybe a microservices based applications estate is a good one, but I can't do that for every application. If I am a large enterprise with several thousand applications in my portfolio, I can't refactor everything to become microservices based. So clients see replatforming possibly it's a middle ground. I, I get a lot of the advantages from a cloud native environment. My applications are inherently more efficient, hopefully a lot more performance. >>Yeah. It's, it's a matter of software delivery performance. Yeah. So legacy workloads will definitely benefit from being brought into Kubernetes in the software delivery per performance department. So it's a matter of somehow revamping your, your legacy applications and getting the benefits in, in life's application, life cycle management, a full tolerance and all that stuff. It's about leveraging the, what Kubernetes offers. >>When you say bringing legacy applications into Kubernetes. It's not that simple, right? I mean, what's involved in doing that. >>It, it, isn't, it's just a matter of taking a holistic view at your application portfolio and understanding the nuance sets of each application type within your organization and trying to come up with a suitable migration strategy for each one of these application types. And for that, what we're trying to do is provide a series of standardized tools and methodologies from a community perspective, we created this conveyor community. It, it was kick started by red hat and IBM, but we are trying to bring as many vendors and GSI as possible to try to set up these standards to make these road towards Kubernetes as easy as >>Possible. So we've done a little bit of app modernization in the CTO advisor hybrid infrastructure. And one of the things that we've found is there's plenty of Avan advantages. If I take a monolithic application that has that I've traditionally had to scale off to game performance, I can take selective parts of that, and now I can add autoscaling to it. Exactly. However, as I look at a landscape Allen of thousands of applications, I need to dedicate developer resources to get that done in my traditional environment. But my traditional environment is busy building new. My traditional or my developers are building new applications and new capabilities. I just don't have the resources to do that. How does HCL and red hat team together to kind of fast track that capability? >>Well, I'll comment on two things in particular, actually the, the first thing when it comes to skilling, I think the thing that's really surprised us at HCL is so many of our clients around the world have said, we are desperately short of skills. We cannot hire ourselves out of this problem. We need to get our existing developer community reskilled around platforms like OpenShift, conveyor, and other projects too. So the first thing that's happened to us at eight seal is we've been incredibly busy undertaken, probably what we would call developer workforce modernization, right? Where we have to help the client reskill their entire technical and developer community to give them the skills, right. So we will help the clients develop a community, build the cloud native understanding, help them understand how to modernize tools for example, or applications. But the second thing I mention is, and this comes back to a comment the Ram made around around conveyor. >>It's been really encouraging to see the open source community, start to invest in building the supporting frameworks around my kind of modernization journey, because if I'm a developer that's reskilling and I'm attempting to maybe modernize an application, being able to dip into an opensource project, I mean, a good example would be tackled part of the conveyor project. Exactly. You now have open source based tools that will help you analyze your applications. They will go into the source code and they will give the developer guidance in terms of what would be effective treatments to undertake. So perhaps a development team that are new to this modernization journey, they would benefit from a project like conveyor, for example, exactly because I need to know where can I safely modernize my application now for experience organizations like HCL that comes naturally to us, but for people who are just starting this journey, if I can take an open source tool like tackle or the rest of conveyor, for example, and use that to accelerate my journey, it takes a lot of pressure off, off my organization, but it also accelerates the journey too. And >>It's not just a matter of, of tooling. We we're also, opensourcing the, the modernization methodology that we've been using in red hat consulting for years. So this whole conveyor communities, it's all about knowledge sharing on one hand and building a set of tools together based on that knowledge that we are sharing to make it as easy as possible. >>And what role does red hat play in all that, I mean is your, your, you you've carved out this position for yourself as the, as the true open source company. Is that, does that position you for a leadership role in helping or companies make this >>Transition? I wouldn't say we should be leading the whole thing. We, we kick started it, but we want to get other vendors on board for this thing. One cool thing about the Camra community is that IBM is opensourcing a lot of their IP. So IBM research is on board. In this thing, we have some really crazy stuff related to a AI being applied to application analysis. We have some machine learning in place. We have very cool stuff that has been sitting on a, on a corner in IBM research for quite some years that now it's being open sourced and integrated in a unified user experience to streamline the modernization process as much as possible. >>So let's talk about the elephant of the room. HCL was leading the conversation around cloud Foundry circa five plus years ago. And as customers are thinking about their journey to cloud native, how should they think about that cloud Foundry to cloud native or Kubernetes replatform? >>Well with within the cloud Foundry community, we've, we've been quite staunched supporters of Kubernetes for quite some time, right? It's, it's quite a, a stated intent of the cloud Foundry foundation to, to move across to Kubernetes platform right now that is a significant engineering journey for cloud Foundry to take. Now we're in this position where a lot of large users of cloud Foundry have a certain urgency to their journey. They, they want to consolidate on a single Kubernetes based infrastructure. We, we see a lot of traction around OpenShift, for example, from red hat in terms of its market leadership. So a lot of clients are saying we would like to consolidate all of our platforms around a single kind of Kubernetes vendor, whether that's red hat or anyone else, you know, quite frankly. So what HCL is doing right now with the tools and the solutions we've announced this week is we're simply accelerating that journey for clients. If I've got a large installed base of applications running in my cloud Foundry environment, and I've also started to invest in standardize on Kubernetes place platforms like OpenShift, most clients would see it as quite a sensible choice to now try and consolidate those two environments into one. And that's simply what we're doing at HCL. We're making it very, very easy. In fact, we fully automated the journey so I can move all of my applications from cloud Foundry into for example, OpenShift pretty much immediately, and it just simplifies the entire journey. >>So the, as we start to wrap up the segment, I like to know customer stories. What, what, how customers either surprised or challenged when they get into, even with the help of an ACL in redhead, why are they seeing the most difficult parts of their migrations? >>Well, my, my simple comment would be maybe complexity, right? And the, the associated requirement for skilled people to undertake this modernization work, right? We spoke about this, of course, in terms of clients now are a lot more realistic. They understand that their ambition now needs to be somewhat tempered by their ability to sort of drive modernization quickly. So we see a lot of clients when they look at their very large global portfolios of applications, they're trying to invest their resources in the higher priority applications, the revenue generative applications in particular, but they have to bring everything else with them as well. Now, a common kind of separation point was we see a lot of clients who might say I'm gonna properly modernize and refactor, maybe five to 10% of my portfolio, but the other 90% also needs to come on the journey as well. And that's really where replatforming in particular kicks in. So, so the key trend again, is, is clients send to us, I've gotta take the entire journey. All right, I've got the resources and the skills to really focus on this much of my application base. Can someone simplify the overall journey so I can afford to bring everything on a cloud native journey? >>So the key to success here is having a holistic view at the application portfolio, segmenting the application portfolio in different application types and ordering the, the priorities of these application types and come up with suitable migration strategies for each one of them is >>Really necessary to move everything though. >>Not necessarily, no. Yeah. Or not necessarily. Yeah, absolutely not everything, but it would make sense. As we were saying before, it will definitely move, make sense to move legacy applications towards Kubernetes, to leverage all the software delivery. >>That's, that's a big project, right? >>It is. >>If you're gonna restructure the application around eight API and microservices, >>That it should be taken the way I've seen organizations succeeding the most in these road towards cloud native and Kubernetes in general is trying to address the whole portfolio. Maybe not move everything, but try to have this holistic view and not leave anything behind. Because if you try to do this isolated initiatives of bringing these or that application in, in isolation, you're Def you, you will miss part of the picture and you might be doomed to fail >>There. Yeah. It's been my experience that if you don't have a plan to migrate your applications to a cloud native operating model, then you're doomed to follow lift and shift examples to the public cloud. Yeah. Whether you're going to any other clouds, if you don't make that, that operational transition. Last question on operational transition, we've talked a lot about the replatforming process itself. What about day two at the I've landed to the cloud? What are some of the top considerations for, for compliance op observability? Just making sure my apps stay up in transitioning my workforce to that model. >>I think the over, you know, the overarching trend or theme that, that I see is clients now are, are asking for what I would call cloud native operations. Now in particular, there's a very solid theme around what we would call reliability engineering. So think about site reliability, engineering, SRE platform, reliability engineering, PR E. These are the dominant topics that clients now want to engage HCL on in particular, because the point you make is a valid one. I've modernized my application. Now I need to modernize the way that I operate the application in production. Otherwise I won't see those benefits. So that general theme of SRE is keeping us really busy. We're busy, re-skilling all of those operations teams around the world as well, because they need to know how to run these environments appropriately >>Too. And also being able to measure your progress while your transitioning is important. And that's one of the concerns that we are addressing as well in the community with a called polars to, to measure and to effectively measure the software delivery performance of, of the organization after the transition has been done. >>And this is a really good point by the way, cuz most, most people think it's a bit of a black art. How do I understand how I modernize my application? How do I understand how I've improved my kind of value chain around software creation and many people thought you needed to bring in very expensive consultants to advise you on these, on these black lives? No, >>Definitely >>Not. But in open source projects like conveyor from, from red hat, the availability of these tools available on an open source model means exactly any engineer, any developer can get these tools off the shelf and get that immediate benefit. >>Well, a flower head of creative labs at HCL at Ramon neon, senior product manager, redhead. Thank you for joining the Q you now cube alum. You'll have a nice profile like the profile pictures on here. Awesome. Absolutely. Thank you. From Valencia Spain. I'm Keith towns, along with Paul Gillon and you're watching the cue, the leader in high tech coverage.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to VMworld 2021, a two day virtual event, hosted by the company which permanently changed data center operations last decade. My name is Dave Vellante, and you're watching theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2021, where we want to know what VMware and its ecosystem have in store for the next 10 years and how your digital business can survive and thrive in the coming decade, and who better to give us a glimpse as to how that's being done both inside VMware and within its customer base, than Mike Hayes, who is the chief digital transformation officer at VMware. Mike, great to have you on the program. >> No Dave, thank you for having me, we appreciate you and all that you do for this great event. Thank you, sir. >> Oh, I appreciate that. So talk about, what's involved with your role as chief digital transformation officer. What's that all about? >> Yeah thank you for, many people, are chief digital transformation officer in a lot of different places, different things. Here at VMware I'm responsible for worldwide business operations and digital transformation of the firm. Just like first and foremost, we're focused on our customers and how our customers can improve their own business models, whether it's cost, flexibility, speed, imagining new things, that's what gets us really excited. And at the same time, we're transforming internally in order to bring ourselves into our exciting third chapter. >> Yeah, everybody wants to be a SAS company these days, VMware obviously is accelerating its move towards SAS. Maybe you could talk a little bit about your strategy for leading business operations as well as that transformation. >> Absolutely, I think there's a couple of things. And first of all, the most important thing in an organization is agility we have or transforming our own ability to transform. As we all know, everybody listening knows that markets don't sit still, they pivot quickly, and so the organizations that win aren't the organizations that prepare for tomorrow, but they prepare for the ability to change for tomorrow, and as the markets change, they stay ahead of that. So that's what we're doing at VMware and that's what we're really excited about our entire suite of products and services so that we can help organizations do the same. >> Yes so, if I could stay on this for a second, Mike, when you think about what you have to deal with there, and you're moving to that as a service subscription model, you got to the external factors, you mentioned you start with the customer, but you also have internal factors, right? Your salespeople might be used to one and done move on to the next one, more transactional, it's a whole different mindset, isn't it? >> It absolutely is, and so any organization as large as VMware is, should always be staring at itself and saying, how can we be more flexible? And so we just like everywhere else are looking at our foundational data, we're looking at our ERP systems, we're looking at our own internal processes to say, as we pivot to SAS, and the back office becomes closer to the front office. That's really where it's at, there's not a customer in the world that cares about any of their... Where they're buying from, the back offices from where they're buying from don't matter, what matters is that experience, it's that front layer, it's that first touch with the customer. We recognize that, and we're preparing for that, and I'm really excited about how it's going. >> Let's talk about some of the waves that you're riding here, the major trends that are driving digitally. I often call it the forced march to digital in 2020. It was like, we were just thrown into the fire. And it's just the way it was. If you weren't a digital business, you were out of business. And now people are kind of sitting back and saying okay, let's take those learnings, fill those gaps, and really set us on a course over the next decade. So what do you see as the major trends? What are the technologies that are enabling digital business and how are you applying them both in your own business and what you're seeing with your customers? >> We first of all I think what's important is to recognize that every organization needs the ability to scale. So what we're doing at VMware is simplifying our foundation. And so then as we 2x or 5x or 10x, our own business, we're multiplying off a much simpler base. And so as we drive our own transformation, our internal principles of like simplicity and clarity and accountability, and really streamlining is what VMware is doing. And that's what we're also not surprisingly recommending and helping our own customers with. And so that's what gets really exciting for us. I think that, one of the things that you're alluding to with this a forced march to digital which I totally agree with, is really, it is about experience and for us there are a couple of KPIs that are really interesting to us, and it should be for everybody, no surprise here, but the velocity that it takes for operations to go from an idea to a closure, from quote to cash, or from idea to implementation, whatever that front and back end words your own business uses are what's important, but how fast do you get through that? And so for us, we're imagining a touch less future. So no, are we there yet? Absolutely not. Is any organization? Very few are. And so how do we constantly say, ask ourselves what don't we need to be doing? When I walk into a room in a lot of places VMware or otherwise, and you say who's in charge of what we're not doing? That's where all the good ideas are, the good idea spaces, like what organizations aren't doing, so you have that culture of pulling awesome ideas to the front and saying, how do we just prioritize? The hardest thing Dave right now, is that there are so many shiny objects for all of our enterprises, for everybody that's listening. I think one of the hardest things is prioritizing and saying, how do we spend our resources in the smartest way possible, so that we are doing the things that will have the greatest impact for our customers. Something that we feel like we have a great plan for, and we're excited about the execution over the coming year. >> I wonder if you could comment on what you're seeing and just in terms of spending patterns. All throughout last year, we reported that CIO's expected budget contractions of around 5% relative to 2019, and what happened is in the second half, he really saw, companies had to respond to the cyber threats, they had to respond, of course to hybrid work, this whole digital march that we talked about, and it was actually pretty strong. Many people expected that a lot of the traditional companies that relied on data center and on-prem and HQ spend, were really going to get hit and they actually got through it okay. And meanwhile, the cloud is exploding, your cloud businesses exploding, security is exploding. What was interesting is, just this weekend, we published some data that suggested, that is not only continuing into 2021, but CIO's are expecting, more of this in 2022. So we used to have this sort of steady IT spend, refresh cycles, et cetera, but it seems like we're in a step function right now, in terms of investment, and it seems like CEOs are saying, if we don't lead this digital transformation, we're going to become toast. >> Absolutely Dave, yeah, the first thing you mentioned was budget. Let's remember budgets are a function of a company's focus on either short term goals or long-term goals. And so the organizations that are really smartest are thinking three, four, five years out and you're investing now, so that you can always really be high-performing in that 2, 3, 4 year window. Because any organization that mortgages it's future for this current year is not doing itself any favors. So the cycles that I'm seeing that are aligned exactly as you described, organizations are understanding, key leaders get that they need to invest. But the question is, how do you invest in the things that are classically thought of as maybe back office, or let me just say boring, just to be provocative. How do we choke out the boring stuff from a budget standpoint, and then really give a lot of oxygen and energy to the things that are fun and really transformative? And that's what we're seeing, and that's why we feel like our strategy is so great Dave, because we're part of that for the future, and as organizations think about freeing up capital so that they can invest in those fun things that really accelerate their own business models, that's what it's about. >> Now VMware of course has always had an amazing ecosystem, always been very proud of the value that you created, not just free for your own selves, but for your customers, and also your ecosystem partners. So as it relates to your digital transformation role Mike, we talked about customers, we talked about some of the internal stuff and operations. How does the ecosystem fit in? How do you collaborate with them? What kind of learnings do you get from them? How do you plug them into your digital platform if you will? >> Absolutely, I think the most important element you're drawing out, Dave, is the concept of trust. We have incredible partners, and without whom VMware's business and success that we enable in the world would be very limited. So we recognize that we all go through life with friends and partners, it's obviously not just true in business, I was a Navy Seal for 20 years and the most important thing is that foundational element. Now, what we do and what we're always trying to do is be as transparent and fast and helpful as we can. I think that in the partner world, anytime you can reach across the table more than halfway and with another organization, that's easy to intersect. If you're not willing to meet people in places more than halfway, there is no middle. So for us, what we're doing is constantly listening and getting feedback and saying, where can we improve? That's what's really awesome. Sandy Hogan is an incredible colleague of mine who runs our channel, and Sandy runs a board with 30 of our largest partners in the channel, and the first question that she always asks is, what can we be doing better? And that's for us the most important thing is listening. Just like you were in developing an individual product. What's important is product market fit, right? Does your product fit in the market, and then how do you get feedback from it? We apply that as an institution and an enterprise. >> Mike, you mentioned your experience in the military, thank you for your service, I wanted to ask you something about that. So I wrote a piece one time and talked about Frank Slootman, who is becoming a Silicon Valley icon, how he's going to apply his playbook at his new company, Bubba. And he wrote me back, he said, "Dave I learned in the military that, it's not a playbook. I am a situational leader and I learned that in the military." So my question to you is, what did you learn as a Navy Seal to deal with situations, especially in a condition like we are now, where there's a lot unknown. How do you apply that in today's world? >> Yeah Look, the there's the parallels between the Seals and VMware are perfect, right? Because all we're doing is quickly defining an outcome. What's the vision for the organization? What's the outcomes we'd want to achieve? That's the where we're going. Then there's the strategy, which is the how. How are we going to get there? How do you develop strategy? There are a hundred different ways to go achieve the vision, but how do we think about the different risks along the way? And like I said earlier, draw those risks out, so they're known risks. Then we can price them and size them and understand that for our strategy. And then how do we execute well and how do we get feedback throughout the whole thing? But you know Dave, the best thing I would say, the analogy from the Seals in the military, really is what you hit on. A lot of people say that they have a plan, but in the Seals the only plan that we had was for our plan to change, it's that concept I said earlier of transforming our ability to transform. So we go in on any given night with complicated missions and have a plan, but we knew that that plan was going to very quickly change, it's no different than what we're doing here at VMware, with our own customers in this technology market. >> It's a great lesson to apply Mike. I really appreciate you sharing that and appreciate you coming on the queue. >> Thank you for having me, it's such a pleasure. >> Really a pleasure was ours, and thank you for watching over. Keep it right there for more great content from Vmworld 2021, you're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> What? Welcome to a special keep conversation here in Palo Alto. Shot for host of the Cube. The Palo Alto Studios here in Palo Alto. Where here With Adam Casella, CEO and co founder of Snap Route and Glenn Sullivan, Cofounder. Snap. Right, guys, Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. So, you guys are a hot startup launching you guys? Former apple engineers, running infrastructure, I would say large scale an apple, >> just a little bit >> global nature. Tell the story. What? How did you guys start the company? We did it all come from the apple. A lot of motivation to see a lot there. You seeing huge trends? You'd probably building your own stuff. What was that? What was the story? >> So, yeah, basically way. We were running a large external stuff at Apple. So think of you know, anything you would use his user, Siri maps, iTunes, icloud, those air, the networks that Adam and I were responsible for keeping up, keeping stable on DH. You know, there was a lot of growth. So this is pretty twenty fifteen. We started snapping on August twenty fifteen, so it's a big growth period for, you know, icloud. Big growth period for iTunes. Lots of users, lots of demand. Sort of lots of building infrastructure in sort of a firefighting mode on DH. One of the things that occurred is that we needed to move to more of, you know, infrastructure kind of building out as you need it for capacity. If you start talking to the folks up the road, you know, with Facebook and Google and Microsoft and all those folks, you realize that you have to kind of build it, and then they will come. You can't really always be reactionary and building these kind of bespoke artisanal networks, right? So him and I had to come at it from both a architectural apology network kind of network engineering, geeky kind of level, and also from an automation orchestration. Visibility standpoint. So we pretty much had to do a Nen tire reimagining of what we were building as we were going to build these new networks to make sure we could could anticipate capacity and deploy things before you know it was necessary. >> Yeah, and make sure that the network is agile, flexible enough to respond to those needs, and change isn't required. >> You mentioned. The surge came around time for twenty, twelve, twenty, thirteen, different exactly apples been around for a while, so they had. They were buying boxes and start racking and stacking for years. So they have applications probably going back a decade, of course. So as Apple started to really, really grow Icloud and the iPhone seven, you still got legacy. So how did you guys constantly reshaped the network without breaking it with some of the things that you guys saw? That was successful because it's kind of a case study of, you know, you know, the next level without breaking >> anything. Yeah, did when migration was interesting, uh, essentially into doing it. She start attacking it for the legacy environments as Iraq. Iraq process, right? You gotta figure out what applications better most easily be able to move and start with the low hanging fruit first so you could start proving out the concept that you're talking about. You try with the hardest aspect or the Horace Apt to move. You're going to get it with a lot of road block. If my you might actually fail potentially and you won't get what you need where you need to go if you took, took some low hanging fruit applications that can easily migrate between, you know, an old environment and new environment. >> It's not dissimilar to environments where things are acquisition heavy, like we've got some friends at some other Silicon Valley companies that are very active. You know, acquisition heavy, right? It's It's a company that's one name on the outside, but it's twenty thirty different Cos on the inside, and what they typically end up doing is they end up treating each one of those as islands of customers, and they build out a core infrastructure, and they treat themselves more like an ice pick. So if you if you Khun, meld your environment where you're more like a service provider and you're different legacy applications and new applications arm or you know customers, then you're going to end up in a better situation and that we did a little bit of that, you know, at Apple, where they have, you know, really, really core service provider, head the type. You know, if a structure with all of these different customers hanging >> off his isolation options there. But also integration, probably smoother. If you think it was a service provider. >> DeMarcus solid right and clear. >> So talk about the nature you got cloud experts. I'll see infrastructure experts. You're really in the The Deep Dev ops movement as it goes kind of multi and agree because he got storage, networking and compute the holy trinity of infrastructure kind. All changing on being reimagined. Storage isn't going away. More data is being stored. Networks need to be programmable on DH, Secure and Computers unlimited. Now it's naming all kinds of innovation. So you're seeing companies, whether it's the department defense with the Jed I contract trying to. You're the best architecture on enterprise that might have a lot of legacy trying to re imagine the question of what to do around multi cloud and data center relationships. What's your perspective on this phenomenon? OK, we have tohave scale, so we have a little bit on Prem or a lot of fun. Prem, We'll have cloud and Amazon maybe cloud over Microsoft, so it's really gonna be multiple clouds. But is it simply the answer of multiple clouds just for the sake of being multi cloud? Or is there a reason for Multi Cloud is reason for one cloud. You sure? Your perspective on the >> sure it's it it's the thought might be that it's kind of most important have one overarching strategy that you adapt to everything, and that's sort of true, right? We'd say, Okay, well, we're going to standardize something like you, Bernetti. So we're gonna have one Cuban, these cluster and that Cubans cluster is going to run in desert. It's got running. Google is going to run in, you know, on Prem and all that. It's actually less important that you have one fabric or one cluster, one unified way to manage things. What's more important is that you standardize on a tool set and you standardize on a methodology. And so you say, Okay, I need to have an orchestration later. Find that's communities. You have a run time environment for my container ization. Sure, that's Dr or whatever other solutions you wantto have. And then you have a P structures that used to program these things. It's much more important that all those things they're standardized that then they're unified, right? You say I have Cooper Natives control, and I'm gonna control it the same way, whether it's a desert, whether it's in Google Cloud or whether or not it's on Prem. That's the more important part. Rather than say, I have one big thing and I try to manage so to your point, >> by having that control point that's standard with all the guys allows for. The micro services camp allows for all these new agile and capabilities. Then it becomes the cloud for the job. Things are exactly Office three sixty five. Why not use Azure? >> Yeah, I mean, that's the whole problem with doing like technology. Pick technology sake. Technology doesn't solve problems. Old is maybe a, you know, piece technologies to peace technology. And I think it's why you look at like, cloud native communities and doctor and and you know why Dr initially had a lot more struggle and widely more successful after you, Seymour, that cloud that have come out there because cloud native put a process around how you could go ahead and ensure these things. We deployed in a way that was easily managed, right? You have C I. D for I want my container. But out there, I have a way to manage it with communities in this particular pipeline and have a way to get it deployed. Without that structure, you're going to be just doing technology for technology sake. >> Yeah, and this is modernizing, too. So it's a great point about the control point. I want to just take it the next level, which is, you know, back when I was breaking into the business, the word multi vendor was a word that everyone tossed around every multi vendor. Why we need choice choices good. While choice down streams always, it was always something. There's an option. More optionality, less of a reality, so obvious is good. No one wants the vendor locking unless you It's affordable and spine, right? So intel chips a lock in, but no one ever cares, processes stuff and moves on. Um, so the notion of multi vendor multi cloud How do you guys think about that? As you look at the architectural changes of a modern compute, modern stories modern network facility, >> I think it's really important. Tio, go back to what you said before about office three sixty five, right? Like why would you run that? Other places other than deserve rights, got all the tools. Lt's. It's really, really critical that you don't allow yourself to get boxed into a corner where you're going to the lowest common denominator across all the platforms, right? So so when you're looking at multi cloud or hybrid cloud solution, use what's best for what you're doing. But make sure that you've got your two or three points that you won't waver on right like communities like AP Integration like whatever service abstraction layers that you want right? Focus on those, but then be flexible to allow yourself to put the workloads where they make sense. And having mobile workloads is the whole point to going into the Qatar having a multi cloud strategy anyway. Workload mobility is key >> workloads and the apse of Super Port. You mentioned earlier about ass moving around, and that's the reality, correct. If that becomes the reality and is the norm than the architecture has to wrap around it, how did you advise and how do you view that of unfolding? Because if data becomes now a very key part of a workload data, considerable clouds late and see comes. And now here you go, backto Leighton Sea and laws of physics. So I just start thinking about the network and the realities of moving things around. What do you guys see as a A so directionally correct path for that? >> Sure. So I kind of see if you look if you break down, OK? You have storage, You have network. You have, You know, applications, right? And I heard something that from a while ago actually agree with that. I says, you know, Dad is the new soil, right? And I look at that, OK, That that is new soil. Then guess what network is the water and the applications air seats. And if you have missing one of those, you're not going to end up with a with a, you know, a growing plants. And so if you don't have the construct of having all these things managed in a way that you could actually keep track of all of them and make them work in chorus, you're going to end up where e Yeah, I could move my application to, you know, from point A to point B. But now it's failed. Haven't they? Don't have connectivity. I don't have storage. Or I can go out there and I have storage and, you know, no connectivity or kind. Give me and, you know, missing one. Those competed on there and you don't end up with a fully functioning you know, environment that allows you >> so. The interplay between stories, networking and compute has to be always tightly managed or controlled to be flexible, to manage whatever situation when I was growing >> and you gotta have the metadata, right, like, you've got to be able to get this stuff out of the network. That's why that's why what we're doing it's not proud is so critical for us is because you need to have the data presented in a way, using the telemetry tools of choice that give you the information to be able to move the workloads appropriately. The network can't be a black box, just like in the in the storage side. This storage stuff can't be a black box, either, right? You have to have the data so that you could place the workload is appropriately >> okay. What's your guy's thesis for a snapper out when you guys started the company? What was the the guiding principle or the core thesis? And what core problem did you solve? So answer the question. Core problem. We solve his blank. What is that? >> So I think the core problem we solve is getting applications deployed faster than they ever have been right And having making, doing, making sure it's not a secure way in an efficient way. Operationally mean those air, basically, what the tenants of what we're trying to solve a what we're going for. And, uh the reason for is that today the network is withholding back the business from being able to employ their applications faster, whether it be in a polo sight, whether it be local on data center or whether being, you know, in the cloud from, you know, their perspective connectivity between their local, on prep stuff on whatever might be in, you know, eight of us is ordered >> Google and enabling that happened in seamlessly so that the network is not in the way or >> yeah. So if you could now see what's happened on the network and now you can have control over that aspect of it, you do it in a way. It's familiar to people who are deploying those applications. They now have that ability to place those work clothes intelligently and making sure that they can have the configuration of activity that they need for those applications. >> Okay, so I say I said, You guys, Hey, I'm solvent. Assault, sold. I love this. What do I do next? How doe I engage with you guys, Do I buy software? So I loaded Bokkelen infrastructure. What's the What's the snap route solution? >> So so the first part of the discussions, we talk about hardware. Obviously, we don't make our own hardware. That's the whole point of this allegation. Is that you by the harbor from somebody else? Andi, you buy the software from us, so there's a lot of times of the initial engagements. There's some education that goes on about this is what this aggregation means, and it's very, very similar to what we saw in the computer world, right? You had your classic, you know, environments where people were buying. You know, big iron from HP and Dell and IBM and Sun and everybody else, right? But now they can get it from, you know, ziti and kwon and sort of micro and and whoever else and they wouldn't They would really think of buying software from those same companies. Maybe some management software, but you're not going to buy your licks version from the same people that you're buying your harbor from. So once we explain and kind of educate on that process and some folks that are already learning this, the big cloud providers already figuring this out, then it's a matter of, you know, here's the software solution and here's howto >> be a threat to civilians getting what? My plugging into my connecting to certain systems, how would I just deploy? It will take me through the use case of installing it. What is it? Connect to >> shirt. So you have your white box top Iraq device or, you know, switching my on there. You load our code on there. We used only to initially deploy the stuff on there on. Then you can go. You can go ahead and load all the containers on. They're using things like helm and pulling it from harbor. Whether that be exciting, if you have locally or internally or you Khun bundling altogether and loaded in one particular image and then you can start, you know, interacting with that cabinet is a P I. To go ahead and sort of computing device. Additionally, we'll make sure this is clear to people who are, you know, networking guys going on. Cooper. Netease. God, what is all this? I never heard of this stuff. We supply a full fledged CIA, lied. It looks and feels just like you want a regular network device toe act as a bridge from what you do, those guys are comfortable with today to where the future is going to be a and it sits on top of that same apia. >> So network as we're comfortable with this correct that's going >> and they get to do stuff using cloud native tools without worrying about, you know, understanding micro services or continue ization. They now have the ability to pull contenders off, put new containers on in a way that they would just normally use. Is he alive? >> I want to get you guys thoughts on a trend that we've been reporting on and kind of coming on the Cube. And I certainly have been a lot from past couple years past year. Particular covering this cloud native since the C in C S Koo coupon was starting, were there when that kind of started. Developers, we know that world develops a scene and agile, blah, blah, blah, All that good stuff. Networking guys used to be the keys, have keys thinking they were gods. You're networking engineer. Oh, yeah, I'm the guy saying No, All the time I'm in charge. Come through me. But now the world's flipped around. Applications need the network to do what it wants yet. Right. So you start to see program ability around networks. Let's go live. We saw the trend. The trend there is definite there. Developer programs growing really, really fast. He started. See networking folks turned into developers. So youjust smart ones do. And the networking concepts around provisioning is that you see service measures on top of you. Burnett. He's hot. So you start to see the network. Parent Policy based this policy based that program ability Automation. It's kind of in the wheelhouse of a network person. Yeah, your guys. Thoughts on the evolution of the developer, The network developer. Is it really? Is it hyped up? Is that and where's ago? So >> we're going back to where we're networking originated from right. Developers started networking. I mean, let's not forget that right. It wasn't done by some guy who says I have a sea lion. I'm going now that work's work. Know someone had to write the code. Someone have deployed out there. But eventually you got to those guys where they went to particular vendors and those systems became or closed. And they weren't able to go ahead and have that open ecosystem that we, you know, has been built on the compute side. So that's kind of, um it does say, or, you know, hindered those particular that industry from growing, right. Never going. She's been hindered by this. We have been able to do an open ecosystem to get that operational innovation in there. So as we've moved on further and now as we get that, you know, those people saying no. Hey, you can't do anything. No, no, no. We have the keys to the castle. We're not gonna let you through here. The devil's guys, we're going when we still need to. The player applications are business still needs to move forward, So we're going to go around. And you could see that with some of the early ESPN solutions going on there says, you know what? I figure like that we just exist. Okay. Tunnel we're going to go over you. That day is coming to an end. But we're not going to go do that long termers air going on here because that efficiency there, the overhead there is really, really high. So as we start going on further, we're good. I have to pull back in tow. When we originally started with networking where you have people will use that open ecosystem and develop things on there and start programming the networks to match what's happened with the applications. So I see it. Something just >> clicked in your thoughts. >> Yes. So the smart network engineers, the guys and girls out there that want to be progressive and, you know, really adapt themselves are going to recognize that their value add isn't in being a SEAL I jockey and cutting and pasting from their playbooks in their method. They're forty eight page method of procedures that they've written for how to upgrade this chassis. Right. Um, your your expertise is an operational, you know, run time. Your your expertise is an operational best practice, right? So you need to just translate that. Lookit communities, looking operators, right, operators, existing communities to bake in operational intelligence and best practices into a bundle deployment, Right? So translate that. Right? So what's the best way to take this device out of service and do an upgrade? It's us step. It's a method of procedures translating that new acumen and his operator to put that in your communities bundle Senate in your image. You're good to go like this is. The translation has happened there. There is an interim step right. You know, our friends over at answerable are friends and puppet, insult and chef and all. They've got different ways to control. You know, traditional see allies using, you know, very, very kind of screen scraping, pushing the commands down and verifying getting output in changing that, it's possible to do it that way. It's just really painful. So what we're saying is, why don't you just do it? Natively use the tool like an operator and then put your intelligence into design operational intelligence layout like do that level instead of, you know, cutting and pasting >> for so developers are it's all developers. Now it's emerged together. Now you have open >> infrastructure is code right? >> Infrastructures code? Yeah, everything >> Israel programmer, I mean, but you can't you can't and I want to make sure it's already clear to include was saying that you can't get away from the guys who run networks and what they've seen experienced that they've had so but they need to now take that to his point and making it something that you actually can develop in code against and actually make into a process that can be done over and over again. Not just words on paper. >> That's what I think they were. Developer angles. So really, it's about translating operational efficiencies into the network into code because to move APS around do kind of dynamic provisioning and containing all the services that are coming online. >> And you can only do that if you've actually taking a look at what how the network operating systems architected and adopt a new approach of doing it because the legacy, ways of doing it don't work here >> and getting an operation from like what you guys were approached. Your strategy and thesis is having OS baked as close to the network as possible for the most flexible on high performance. Nice thing. Secure abstraction, layers, first proxies and >> simple it down >> with that great guys. Thanks. And good luck on eventually keep will be following you. Thanks for the conversation. Thank you for your conversation here in Palo Alto. I'm John for you're talking networking cloud native with snap route. Launching a new operating system for networks for cloud native. I'm John Forget. Thanks for watching.

>> From Orlando Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018, brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend and we are in Orlando at SAP SAPPHIRE NOW 2018. This is a huge event. Not just 20,000 people here but there's about a million people SAP SAS are going to engage with their life and on-demand video experiences for Sapphire, amazing. We are excited to welcome for the first time to theCUBE Jinesh Jain the VP of Global Delivery at CenturyLink. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thank you guys for having me here. >> The theme in this event is really around what SAP is doing to enable the intelligent enterprise. This is really beyond digital transformation where customers have to have a customer centric view. It's about infusing and embedding emerging and advanced technologies, AI machine learning into business processes. How is CenturyLink helping customers on that transformation journey? >> I think that's a great question. Let me give you a little bit of background behind what CenturyLink is all about because this is all SAP here in this event right? CenturyLink is all about connecting customers in the in the digital world. And we recently acquired Level 3, and with that Level 3 acquisition we became now, we provide trusted connections to all the connected world, you know all the network world. So you can imagine in a digital transformation you need a very strong foundation when it comes to connectivity, network, infrastructure and security behind that and that's what CenturyLink does. That's our core business and with that journey as we started the journey, we have 60 plus datacenters as part of CenturyLink core strategic assets. We have around 500K miles of fiber optics, which is one of the, we are the second largest in the United States when it comes to network connectivity and redundancy across. And in 60 plus countries, I think all this strategic assets mix provides us very strong foundation for any customers who is embarking this digital journey. It reminds me of one of those recent survey done by McKinsey Global Institute, where they said that they figured out that digitization index for Europe was 12% and for North America was little better around 18%. But look at the gap, how much of gap is there in terms of exploring the full potential of digitization. So I think our journey in terms of giving the digital transformation starts from our strong foundation of our strategic assets of data centers network and security, along with that as you mentioned about the intelligent enterprise, we have a very strong practice in terms of not just descriptive analytics, but we do prescriptive analytics. We do machine learning. We have IOT and we do big data analysis as well. So all these things combined together provides a complete end-to-end solution. And of course SAP plays a big play here and we can talk about that in terms of what we do on the SAP side as well. >> So let's add some more color to that. When I think of CenturyLink, I think about the 60 data centers. Even when I think about SAP what I normally consider CenturyLink's role traditionally in a SAP relationship is that you know what CenturyLink to get me better either closer to my customers so that data injection can happen faster with lower latency. When I think of CenturyLink, I think of lower latency to hyper scale cloud providers so that if I have hold on applications I can get closer to my core SAP data, but what I'm hearing is that CenturyLink has greater SAP capability outside of that. Tell us about the SAP practice at CenturyLink. >> I'm glad you asked that because everybody is wondering about CenturyLink and SAP relationship. In fact let me go back in time here. Six years, few years back I would say six, five years back, CenturyLink acquired Cognilytics. Cognilytics was all about deep HANA expertise, deep analytics and all about BI strategy. And then recently a couple of years back, they acquired SEAL Consulting. So these two organizations which CenturyLink acquired, that gave us deep roots into SAP ecosystem in terms of what CenturyLink and SAP can work together. So now let's look at Cognilytics. They were all about HANA, core HANA expertise. They co-innovated with SAP in terms of that HANA analytics. They came out with number of used cases symptoms of predictive science and then when they acquired SEAL Consulting, it was all about yes for HANA transformation, which is absolutely the theme across this Sapphire and for all the SAP customers globally. From SEAL perspective, which is now of course part of CenturyLink, but now we can provide infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, OSDB as a service, which is already part of CenturyLink. Now with SEAL and Cognilytics coming into play, we are end-to-end sharp in terms of SAP strategy, digital transformation strategy, using SAP tools and products, implementation upgrades, application management services, and continual improvement as part of the digital transformation every customer is looking for. I think that's how we are using the strategic assets of CenturyLink as part of with the SAP expertise coming into play. >> So every customer, digital transformation to any business is just, it's you got to do it right or you will lose relevance and go out of business and we've seen a lot of incumbent retailers for example go away because they haven't been able to transform digitally. I read a stat recently that said 70% of siloed digital transformation projects fail. So how does CenturyLink and your expertise with SAP as for with HANA, how do you help customers be successful? Do you come in and see these siloed projects that you know maybe shadow IT had evolved and helped them to break down those silos, so that they can actually facilitate what it is that they need which is that that 360-degree view of their customers. What they want, when they want it, to be able to predict what they're gonna want next. How do you help break down those silos? >> Right, now I think is a known problem, known challenge across all of the customers who are embarking this journey. I'll tell you what. I'll give you a simple, the way we work, our digital strategy is very much aligned with our customer's business and IT goals. So what we do first and foremost is we want to align ourselves with what the business and IT goals are. Let's double click on that right. So if I look at the business goals, so most of the customers today, A, they want to make sure they want to protect the revenue stream right? B, they want to make sure they have real-time position, no latency in terms of their business decision making. And C, they want to make sure that they go into the new markets. They just can't stay silent to same market there. Plus know the unfamiliar competition, which comes up many times. So that's the business aspect of the goals. We want to look at that and make sure that we align our implementation, our strategy to those business goals. If you look at IT side of that, and I tell you what, these are the things which are being missed out with most of the partners in this ecosystem. If I look at the IT side of it, first and foremost we want to make sure that IT think goals are, it's all about innovation. They want to be innovative. They want to have minimal shelf wear so that they can innovate all the time. They want to evolve the resources so they are aligned with the lines of business all the way and that way everybody has a career path, and they are evolving to the market needs. And then lastly it's all about making sure that all the mundane tasks you know if I look at they need to focus on core competency and offload all the routine tasks. And we very much aligned as part of the journey to those business and IT goals. So if you look at our mission, we won't just look at our mission in terms of overall CenturyLink for SAP customers. We want to provide them a private managed secured cloud, which is scalable, which can be commissioned in a week's time with full automation, completely secure, data protected and an uptime of 99.99% and take care of all the lights on kind of routine tasks, so they can focus on their main core competency about business decision, new business, business process design and things like that which are being lagging behind. So that's our key theme in terms of how we drive all the SAP information. >> There's a lot of complexity behind getting this much value out of any platform, whether it's complexity at the data analytics layer, whether it's the networking that needs to be done, the design and deployment of NetApp stack. We're in a conference where all the hyper scalers are here. >> Yes. >> The company smaller than CenturyLink provides larger than CenturyLink. How is CenturyLink uniquely positioned to basically go to whether it's a Fortune 100 customer or someone down level to basically add value where these other providers potentially will trouble at. >> Alright, no I think it's very true, we need to be nimble. I mean you know we can be a big ship, but should not take time to turn. And I completely agree with that. I think what we do is I'll tell you, one of the unique position we have in this market space is you know we can proudly say that we are, we don't need to go to any third party when it comes to data center locations. We have our own 500k lines of fiberoptics. So network is where we provide, we can provide minimal latency from network perspective. We are all over the, we are 60 plus countries. We are into 350 metros. We can do a metro tier. I think if you look at our network, our hosting capabilities our infrastructure capabilities, we are uniquely positioned compared what the customers need today as a one-stop shop or a one hand to shake to make things happen for them. At the same time, we are very nimble for many customers because that's how CenturyLink has grown up. They acquired us, and we were 800 people company. So was other acquisition as well. We can very easily adapt, innovate, comprehend and adapt to the needs of the customers based on our core competency, our solutions which are available, and strategy which is very much fitting most of our customers in the retail space, in CPG space, in manufacturing space, in healthcare, and in life sciences. We have some designated industry solutions as well, which can help us drive those values quicker. At the same time measurable. >> Being nimble I think of you know being adaptive and being flexible but adaptive struck a big, actually Hasso Plattner this morning in his keynote talked about SAP being adaptive in the context, I think he was talking about intelligence. And everybody wants to paint intelligence all over everything and they talked about SAP being adaptive. That kind of aligns with something I read recently that Bill McDermott said, which is where SAP was the last to accept the status quo. I think he was talking about in relation to CRM specifically but the first to change it. So with that spirit of being nimble, being adaptive how are you helping customers adapt to needing to bring on you know edge core millions of devices or customers that go you know what I want to be able to use advanced technologies like AI to make you know my manufacturing smarter or to be able start connecting my supply chain with demand chain? How are you harnessing that, your adaptability to meet their needs on some of those emerging trends? >> Absolutely, this can be very overwhelming and if you really look at what everybody's talking about, where do you start with and I think we have been doing this for last six years, even before the keynote announcement to be honest to you guys. We have documented 60 to 70 used cases in this case. So what we do is when we approach a customer or a prospect, we come out with some specific used case for their line of business. It can be in a marketing campaign. It can be in a supply chain. It can be in financials. It can be in insurance. So depending on what the needs are, we have those documented used cases, so what we do is for each of these used cases, we break it down in terms of what problem are we gonna to solve, what is the problem definition. And for that problem definition, what's my used case, how do I solve this, what are the alternatives, and how do I reach to my measurable value of that solution. And then we have built-in data models ready to go for each of these used cases behind the scene. So that helps us build something which is nimble, because the data is available. We just need to customize to 20% of what the customer needs are, and then provide that value right away. And once that pilot goes live for a small segment of user community, then we expand that to the larger audience to see the value of whether this is a predictive science machine learning or just pure KPI driven analytics. So we do that and then we expand that. This is what we have done with number of Fortune 500 companies and we're really proud of what we do in terms of being big, but being nimble. >> So speaking of being big, talk about customer engagement, not necessarily the actual customer conversations, but how do customers engage with CenturyLink. One of the simple things that you look at the hyperscalers, I can go to the website, and when I have a question, I can type it in and I'll get a script that answers me in an hour or so. What is the engagement model for interacting with CenturyLink for new customers? >> I think, actually let me go back on this one. I was reading a survey in a CIO magazine. Actually this is a recent survey last year it was, that around thousand-plus CIO's who were interviewed and most of the CIO's, all the CIO's had SAP systems in their companies. And 40% of them said they want to move from on-premise to cloud. Right there that's our engagement strategy there. That we come as a one-stop shop for all these customers who are planning to move from on-premise to cloud. Why? Because number one, they want to reduce their CAPEX, upfront reduction in your cost. They want to make sure that their steady-state cost for keeping the lights on is bare minimal. So whatever budget is left out they can focus more on innovation. We take the sliver line of keeping the lights on and moving them from on-premise to cloud as part of our engagement strategy to start with number one. As we do that, they realize, customer realize that we are not just hosting partners. We just don't provide scalable private managed security cloud for our customers, but we can also do SAP implementation end-to-end, which is whether this is ECC upgrade to S/4HANA or this is a digital strategy for S/4HANA going forward, or just HANA as a pure analytics tool. Or the different SAP suite of products, whether this is Hybris, whether this is Ariba or other suite of products which are very much in a SAS model aspect of SAP, we support that end to end. Our support model is based out of the United States. We have offshore centers in India. So globally follow the same kind of approach. We do this between our number of you know units here in US and in India. That's our engagement strategy across. >> So last question is we're now in our booth here at SAPPHIRE NOW. Tell us about what CenturyLink, NetApp, SAP are doing within the context of automation. >> Wonderful yeah great. That's important actually because I think if you really look at the pace of what customer needs today, the pace is changing so fast. In a typical SAP landscape, you want to commission a system, a development system or a production system within weeks or within days. Gone are other days where you need two months and three months. I mean you miss the business goals for doing all these things. So what we have done is we want to get into the automation mode, and we are heavily investing in that part with help of Cisco, UCSKS. NetApp plays a very big role here in terms of providing their data-driven strategy, their hyper-converged infrastructure as part of the storage system and working with another partner Vnomic to make sure that entire, all these gears behind the scene have a very good orchestration layer to automate the whole process of building the infrastructure, building the application, building all the services and handing it over to our, to the customer team for them to start the journey. So that whole cycle can be reduced by the automation. So I would say NetApp plays a big role there, no doubt about that because most of the IT organizations are data driven today. The SAP workloads are changing and you can't wait for those change manually to be operated. So these are all application driven workloads which changes you know, which can adapt to all these changing workloads and this is where we are going right now in terms of automation. >> Well thanks so much Jinesh for stopping by. I wish we had more time but talking to us about what CenturyLink is doing with SAP, with NetApp for example to help customers on this arduous digital transformation journey. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much I mean this is great, thank you, enjoy rest of the day. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Keith Townsend from SAP Sapphire 2018. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from New York City It's theCUBE. Covering CyberConnect 2017. Brought to you by Centrify and the Institute for Critical Infrastructure Technology. >> Hey welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's coverage of CyberConnect 2017. Live here in New York City at the Grand Hyatt downtown on 42nd street. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. This is Centrify's inaugural event that they're presenting and they're underwriting. It's the industry event between industry and government and really around the crisis of our generation which is cyber security and it's impact to the transformation to global society and our coverage here. Our next guest is Shira Rubinoff who is the President of SecureMySocial, which is really cutting edge human aspect of social engineering meets security. Primetech partners, Cybersecurity, IoT and an influencer but also doing some great work advising start-ups great participant in the community and certainly great to have you back on theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. >> Shira: Thank you, pleasure. >> So, you're in the front row. I saw you and Dave, I couldn't get a seat I was in the back of the bus here at the General Keith Alexanders keynote, among other great keynotes here. Really an inaugural event and inaugural events are great because it's the sign of the trends but also you know if they do a second even, it worked. Right, so you never know there's never going to be another event so an inaugural event means something. It means that the world has to the realization that the world is changed, the realities are here and that the old way isn't good enough. >> Shira: Yup. >> And you're in the middle of it. What's your thoughts? What's your reaction to the program? >> Well you know it's interesting, it also even goes back to the old technology days when you buy by brand. No ones going to fault you for buying the brand names. Everyone just went along with buying the trend, buying the brand. And as technology advanced itself as well we started seeing doing it the old way is just not going anywhere today. Especially with the millennials entering the workforce, how things are done, how people approach technology and security is very different. The human factors of information security is taking a front row today, in terms of security, in terms of the weakest link of the chain. Whether it being phishing, finding the entree into an organization through the human ... the weak link of the human, or in terms of tricking people for doing other things while they're downloading malware or even circumventing different technologies that are layered upon each other because there's just too many layers of security on each other and not making it easy for somebody to use the technology and keeping it strong. >> This year you bring up a good point about the human aspect of it. There's an old joke in IT where there's a fork with a cork in it and someone says why is that there? So they don't stick the fork in their eye. And that's a joke on the old system admin joke around human error, around updating. That's been around for a while, but now there's a whole other social engineering going on around the business of cyber attacks. Whether it's mafias or organized hacker units that do it for business, for profit to state governments where the social engineering around the human vulnerabilities are key. This isn't your area, it's your wheelhouse. What is the key thing that's happening? What should people be aware of? What's your analysis? >> Well I think people have to be careful of oversharing. I think there's many different entrees into finding, again when we talk about the human factors whether being government, whether being a technology company, whether being a seasuite, whether it being through social media. It's being trusted the wrong people, trusting the wrong sources, and just being open and not being over careful in checking your sources and making sure you're actually linking up whether it being on the LinkedIn. Also, I was talking to someone earlier that people were accepting LinkedIn invitations from non-trusted sources. And they seemed to look okay but again, a social engineering piece that comes in that allowed others in to actually see context and find a breech within an organization. Sometimes, somewhat like a government it can always be across all communities. >> So that's a very nuance point, lets take LinkedIn for example, mind if I picked on LinkedIn but Facebook I'm an oversharer so I'm probably being hacked 10 ways from Sunday but you can have whatever you want. But lets take LinkedIn as an example. A practitioner could say I work on the servers for Chase Bank and I handle the Apache whatever project. That's metadata that can be used against that person. He's putting it out there, he or she, for a job potentially to showcase their skills. Yet, the bad actors can use that and figure out what communities they're ... >> Exactly. >> And github their participants so it's a gesture signal point, that you ... Am I right, am I getting it right? >> Correct. Correct. And that's what some of the companies actually put allowances around what people are allowed to share on LinkedIn, however there's the double-edged sword because they're telling their employees do not overshare and say specifically what you're doing. The employee themselves are saying, hey I want to be open to recruiters to come find me because who knows what my next gig is. So they're going to over share what they're doing to show all the experience that they have so they're open to other job opportunities. >> This is a really interesting conflict, and again I'm torn because religiously I'm a big believer in the democratization of media and society but what you're talking about really is a counter against the democratization because that's based on sharing, which that's where open sources from and so this is going to be some sort of shift. >> Correct. Correct. Well, that also plays into the whole millennial shift. Of how it's approached through the workforce. Millennial generation share everything, everything is open. My whole life is opening itself up on social media. I want you to know what I'm having for breakfast because you might want to have it too. By the way, this is what I'm working on at work because you might find it interesting. Whether it being their boss or saying don't do this they're saying don't tell me what to do and I'm going to work from home half the time. It's millennial shift and we have to shift with it. It's going that route. >> So to what degree can we take bad human behavior out of the equation? Toiling, technology, maybe it's process education. >> Well I think it has to be many factors. You know, there has to be the education around it. There also has to be implementing the right technology. To warn users if they're doing things the wrong way. For example, my company SecureMySocial, we are a technology assisted self-monitoring company for allow for employers to give employees to self monitor across social media based on compliance organization real time warnings. So it would warn the employee if they the employee themselves would be doing something wrong. So implementing technologies of that sort whether being whatever the organization may be open to. So you have the education piece, you have the partnerships with the right technology companies, and you also have allowing the employees to have the right types of security around what they're doing themselves. Without being so involved in what they're doing because then they're going to have a big push back. So there's a very fine line you have to walk here. >> And the psychology is interesting you mention the millennials too, because that's their norm. >> Shira: Correct. And they want to be part of a tribe, right? >> Shira: Yes. >> So that the belonging aspect of social is becoming a norm. But now we have to have practices. So what do you, what's your vision of this? Because that probably won't stop, that's a behavior that will constantly be there. Is that going to come in a form of product? Solutions? A better identity? I mean ... >> Well it's going to come everywhere, if you look across all generations from the boomers, gen x, millennials. Things shift with the generations as it comes down the path. So certainly through technology is going to shift to, easy to use, no extra steps to download. As Centrify has, they want a one point to contact. They don't want to overlay technologies on technologies which is what I speak about a lot. My background is heavily in psychology and the human aspect. So make things as strong as they can be without cumbersome to the employee. You want them to use it, not break it, not go around it and not just throw it out the window. >> Gee, you're a great guest and music to our ears because as Dave knows, I've been on this rant for a long time. User experience is really about user expectations. And as expectations shift, that's kind of where the puck will be or whether you're skating through the puck or skating with the puck, as some people are. The question comes down to this young generation because General talked about this new cyber warfare but there's West Point, there's no Navy SEAL, and that's going to come from a gamer culture potentially or the younger generation, so I got to ask ya. Do you think that we're going to have a counter culture? Because in every revolution, take the 60's. We're the 50's parents now, right? We're the 50's generation, or are we? So I've been kind of speculating that I think we're on the cusp of a counter culture revolution. The summer of love of digital is coming. Or maybe not, what do you think? >> You know, I think it's very interesting the way it's shifting across generations. I think that the generation, our generation before us are trying to take this millennial generation and put them in a box and saying follow my rules or else you're out and the millennial generations like make me. So it's not going to happen that way. They're going to actually drive the force of how technology is going to be created and how the business world is actually going to react and act towards them and how things are going to flow after them. And just wait for the following generation, things are going to be a lot looser. >> So you think there's going to be some massive change being shifted from their expectations. >> Shira: Correct. Correct. Yes. >> Well, I feel like millennials are in for a great awakening because now they don't have a ton to lose. >> Shira: Yes. >> As they get older and accrue more wealth. >> John: Well millennials are generally lazy, right? (laughter) >> You've got to be careful when you say that. >> As my son would say, they're smart or they're lazy. >> They're the make me generation. >> Exactly >> Alright, fine. Be careful what you wish for. But is there a gamification involved. The psychology of getting humans to behave the way that you need them to behave in order to have good security practices. >> Yes, no I think that's a great question. I think that based on what the millennials are doing now and how the shift is happening through the gen x and millennials kind of intertwining the businesses and the way technology is created and moved forward. I think that it's going to somehow have to combine forces. I think there's going to have to be a little give and take. And I think as time progresses and things mature that it's going to be understood and it's going to be adapted by them and adopted by them, as well. >> So, talk a little bit more about your company. MySocial ... >> Shira: SecureMySocial, yes. >> What does it do? How does it help solve some of these issues? >> So SecureMySocial is just technology assisted self monitoring tool for employers to give employees to self monitor across social media, based on compliance and regulations of the organization. With real time warnings and auto-delete capabilities. Basically, the organization would buy it. Based on where a person would fall in the organization there will be specific rules set to apply to them. Whether it being group rule sets for C level people, marketing and the like, you don't want false positives. And they the people themselves would get a real time warning to their known device. But I will back track a little bit because most organizations, if not all today have certain criteria. What you can and can't do across social media. But the most of the problems, if not 98 or more percent of data loss or reputation happen outside of the office. It happens on lunch breaks, vacations, weekends. We can't monitor peoples personal accounts. So we're making the users themselves, they would get the real time warnings. There's nothing to download, nothing to install. They don't give over any personal information, yet they're protected and we're able to keep it across the whole thing. >> So it's an insurance policy for the employee saying, look here's a little notification because you know that if you say that drunk tweet, let's get real right or do something that's at a concert ... >> The CFO of Twitter mistakenly tweeted out the earnings of Twitter instead of doing a direct tweet. Things happen, mistakes happen. It's the human factors of it all. >> Dave: And your technology could have stopped that? >> We could have stopped it, we could have actually auto deleted it before it even went out. >> It's almost, I don't know if it's happening on the west coast, but around where I live there's all these ... There's speed signs going up. Tells you how fast you're going. >> It's like that angel on your shoulder saying, do you really want to do this? >> It might be 25 and you see it and you go, you're going too fast and it's flashing and you slow down, and it actually works. >> We use ways in California that's more ... >> It lets you know where the cops are. (John laughing) >> There's no cops! There's no cops around. >> I know that's the same, it's just more effective. You get there faster, you don't ... >> If you don't mind I'd like to ... >> It's this subliminal message, says hey whoa yo slow down. >> Like that angel on your shoulder tapping you on the shoulder letting you know. >> Like you said, it's the good angel. >> Now I just wanted to mention also a new venture actually launching at the end of the month. It's called Prime Tech Partners. We're an incubator here in New York City. Near the flat iron district. We're going to be launching the end of November. Focusing on augmented reality, cyber security, information security and e-commerce. Opening up to start-ups. And please check it out, Prime Tech Partners. >> Shira you did some great work, I got to ask you the question because start-ups are the canary in the coal mine. >> Shira: Yup. >> They'll tell you kind of what's happening, give you a barometer. What is going on in the start-up areas around security because there's now a range, diverse range opportunities from lock chain all the way to enterprise. >> Sheri: Sure. >> So, and everything in between. What's the chirping happening in the mines of the start-ups as they create new ventures. >> Well it's interesting because when you talk about what's out there we talk about almost like an umbrella. Sometimes people would put cyber security over the whole umbrella and then fit artificial intelligence, augmented reality, virtual reality, blockchain. Everything kind of falls under there. So, you know it's actually moving along with the system. There's a lot of artificial intelligences making a big play. IoT world, there's quite a bit of technology coming out there. All finding the whole problems and if you look at everything there's a lot of the human aspects of information security that they have to take into account when developing and when pushing it out because at the end of the day, it's all social engineering. It's the human factor, whatever you're creating. >> And we're seeing the same thing on theCUBE entries. We go to hundreds of shows a year. The trend is every part of the stack is impacted by this. >> Shira: Exactly. >> At the infrastructure low level, from multi factor authentication all the way up to Docker and Cooper and Eddies at the dev ops level, the app level. To wearables ... >> Well, wearables certainly. Right? Gaining some ones information. >> John: Geo information. >> Right. Well, here was an interesting ... I went into, I have a law firm that contacted me. They wanted me to some consulting for them. They implement this most beautiful, high-tech, gorgeous office. So I was in there talking to some of the partners and they were plugging in their new smart TV's and their smart fridges. Everything into their network. You don't have breech their network to get their information, we'll breech Sony! You breech into Sony, whatever whoever the manufacturer of the TV, the fridge, whatever it is. They're thinking IoT, well they can gain access into that law firm, gain information and just take all that information and utilize that. So there's so much thought to be put around even the IoT world, artificial intelligence. The human factor takes a step back. >> If it's a network device it can be hacked. >> Exactly. Yes. >> So is part of your mission just to make people aware of humans role in bad security practices? Is that a big part of this? >> Shira: Yes. >> This sort of shining a light on it. >> Yes, I think there's almost like a stop and pause. When you're creating a technology, whatever it is, and people are looking, Oh I'm going to make this stronger. I'm going to make this better, I'm going to make this faster. Oh here let me put another control over it, and here's another control, and by the way they have to go around this and do five things, we're going to have the best thing out there. They're not going to use it, they're going to break it and circumvent it. Stop, there's a person there. How are we going to make the person use this to the best capacity? How's it going to be strong without giving them all those extra layers? Anything you're doing, there's a person there. You got to stop and think and figure out how to utilize the best way. >> Shira, give us some predictions for next year, the end of the year, so predictions are coming. We had our meeting this week, or last week on our predictions, so we're going to put you in the hot seat. Your predictions for next year. Hot trends you expect to see. What are you expecting? What's your prediction for next year? Well, I think IoT is going to take a big forefront. Especially with the smarter cities, the smarter homes. As you're talking about the wearables. Artificial intelligence is going to kind of play into that as well, but I think the people are very excited about becoming let's quote unquote smart, no extra steps, right? When you have the no extra steps, remember you're opening yourself up for something, do it smart. But IoT is really expanding itself into every infrastructure whether it being utilizing, engineering. Whether it being cities itself, whether it being homes. And the wearables are also ... If you look at what's going on with Fitbit, then you have the next Apple and then there's something else every other day that you could put on yourself and you could get any information that you want. >> So people are connecting the IoT to the industrial side of their analog to digital. >> Exactly. Yes. Yes. And I think that's going to become a forefront in the next year. >> Right. What do you think of the event here, so far? >> I think the event is terrific. We've had some amazing speakers here and I think they're all highlighting the fact that we have to share expertise and really come together to bypass the problems that are out there and work as a unit, and certainly Centrify is doing a great job here. I'm very happy to be here. >> Great. Well, good luck with everything next year. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, we really appreciate it. >> Shira: Thank you. Happy to be here. That was commentary, great analysis. An opinion here on theCUBE, here at Centrify's event that they're underwriting for the industry as an industry event called CyberConnect presented by Centrify. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay tuned for more live coverage here in New York City after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC it's theCube covering .conf 2017 brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome back here on theCube the flagship broadcast for Silicon Angle TV, glad to have you here at .conf 2017 along with Dave Vellante, John Walls. We are live in Washington, DC and balmy Washington, DC. It's like 88 here today, really hot. >> It's cooler here than it is in Boston, I here. >> Yeah, right, but we're not used to it this time of year. Brad Medairy now joins us he's an SVP at Booz Allen Hamilton and Brad, thank you for being with us. >> Dave: And another Redskins fan I heard. >> Another Redskins fan. >> It was a big night wasn't it? Sunday night, I mean we haven't had many of those in the last decade or so. >> Yeah, yeah, I became a Redskins fan in 1998 and unfortunately a little late after the three or four superbowls. >> John: That's a long dry spell, yeah. >> Are you guys Nats fans? >> Oh, huge Nats fan, I don't know, how about Brad, I don't want to speak for you. >> I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Nats, what's the story with that team? >> Well, it's just been post-season disappointment, but this year. >> This is the year. >> This is the year, although-- >> Hey, if the Redsox and the Cubs can do it. >> I hate to go down the path, but Geos worry me a little bit, but we can talk about it offline. >> Brad: Yeah, let's not talk about DC Sports. >> Three out of five outings now have not been very good, but anyway let's take care of what we can. Cyber, let's talk a little cyber here. I guess that's your expertise, so pretty calm, nothing going on these days, right? >> It's a boring field, you know? Boring field, yeah. >> A piece of cake. So you've got clients private sector, public sector, what's kind of the cross-pollination there? I mean, what are there mutual concerns, and what do you see from them in terms of common threats? >> Yeah, so at Booz Allen we support both federal and commercial clients, and we have a long history in cyber security kind of with deep roots in the defense and the intelligence community, and have been in the space for years. What's interesting is I kind of straddle both sides of the fence from a commercial and a federal perspective, and the commercial side, some of the major breaches really force a lot of these organizations to quickly get religion, and early on everything was very compliance driven and now it's much more proactive and the need to be much more both efficient and effective. The federal space is, I think in many cases, catching up, and so I've done a lot of work across .mil and there's been a lot of investment across .mil, and very secure, .gov, you know, is still probably a fast follower, and one of the things that we're doing is bringing a lot of commercial best practices into the government space and the government's quickly moving from a compliance-based approach to cyber security to much more proactive, proactive defense. >> Can you get, it's almost like a glacier sometimes, right, I mean there's a legacy mindset, in a way, that government does it's business, but I would assume that events over the past year or two have really prompted them along a little bit more. >> I mean there's definitely been some highly publicized events around breaches across .gov, and I think there's a lot of really progressive programs out there that are working to quickly you know, remediate a lot of these issues. One of the programs we're involved in is something called CDM that's run out of DHS, Continuous Diagnostic and Mitigation, and it's a program really designed to up-armor .gov, you know to increase situational awareness and provide much more proactive reporting so that you can get real-time information around events and postures of the network, so I think there's a lot of exciting activities and I think DHS and partnership with the federal agencies is really kind of spearheading that. >> So if we can just sort of lay out the situation in the commercial world and see how it compares to what's going on in gov. Product creep, right, there's dozens and dozens and dozens of products that have been installed, security teams are just sort of overwhelmed, overworked, response is too slow, I've seen data from, whatever, 190 days to 350 days, to identify an infiltration, nevermind remediate it, and so, it's a challenge, so what's happening in your world and how can you guys help? >> Yeah, you know it's funny, I love going out to the RSA conference and, you know, I watch a lot of folks in the space, walking around with a shopping cart and they meet all these great vendors and they have all these shiny pebbles and they walk away with the silver bullet, right, and so if they implement this tool or technology, they're done, right? And I think we all know, that's not the case, and so over the years I think that we've seen a lot of, a lot of organizations, both federal and commercial, try to solve a lot of the problems through, you know, new technology solutions, whether it's the next best intrusion detection, or if it's endpoint, you know, the rage now is EDR, MDR, and so, but the problem is at the end of the day, the adversaries live in the seams, and in the world that I grew up in focused a lot around counter-terrorism. We took a data-centric approach to finding advanced adversaries, and one of the reasons that the Booz Allen has strategically partnered with Splunk is we believe that, you know, in a data-centric approach to cyber, and Splunk as a platform allows us to quickly integrate data, independent of the tools because the other thing with these tool ecosystems is all these tools work really well within their own ecosystem, but as soon as you start to mix and match best of breed tools and capabilities, they tend to not play well together. And so we use Splunk as that integration hub to bring together the data that allows us to bring our advanced trade-craft and tech-craft around hunting, understanding of the adversaries to be able to fuse that data and do advanced detection and help our clients be a lot more proactive. >> So cyber foresight is the service that you lead with? >> Yeah, you know, one of the things, having a company that's been, Booz Allen I think now is 103 years old, with obvious deep roots in the federal government, and so we have a pedigree in defense and intelligence, and we have a lot of amazing analysts, a lot of amazing, what we call, tech-craft, and what we did was, this was many many years ago, and we're probably one of the best kept secrets in threat intelligence, but after maybe five or six years ago when you started to see a lot of the public breaches in the financial services industry, a lot of the financial service clients came to us and said, "Hey, Booz Allen, you guys understand the threat, you understand actors, you understand TTPs, help educate us around what these adversaries are doing. Why are they doing it, how are they doing it, and how can we get out in front of it?" So the question has always been, you know, how can we be more proactive? And so we started a capability that we, or we developed a capability called cyber foresight where we provided some of our human intelligence analysts and applied them to open-source data and we were providing threat intelligence as a service. And what's funny is today you see a lot of the cyber threat intelligence landscape is fairly crowded, when I talk to clients they affectionately refer to people that provide threat intelligence as beltway book reporters, which I love. (laughter) But for us, you know, we've lived in that space for so many years we have the analysts, the scale, the tradecraft, the tools, the technologies, and we feel that we're really well positioned to be able to provide clients with the insights. You know, early on when we were working heavily in the financial services sector, the biggest challenge a lot of our clients had in threat intelligence was, what do I do with it? Okay, so you're going to send me, what we call a Spot Report, and so hey we know this nation-state actor with this advanced set of TTPs is targeting my organization, so what, right? I'm the CISO, I'm the CIO, should I resign? Should I jump out the window? (laughter) What do I do? I know these guys are coming after me, how do I actually operationalize that? And so what we've spent a lot of time thinking about and investing in is how to operationalize threat intelligence, and when we started, you kind of think of it as a pitcher and a catcher, right? You know, so the threat intelligence provider throws those insights, but the receiver needs to be able to catch that information, be able to put it in context, process it, and then operationalize it, implement it within their enterprise to be able to stop those advanced threats. And so one of the reasons that we gravitated toward Splunk, Splunk is a platform, Splunk is becoming really, in our mind, one of the defacto repositories for IT and cyber data across our client space, so when you take that, all those insights that Splunk has around the cyber posture and the infrastructure of an enterprise, and you overlay the threat intelligence with that, it gives us the ability to be able to quickly operationalize that intelligence, and so what does that mean? So, you know, when a security operator is sitting at a console, they're drowning in data, and, you know, analysts, we've investigated tons of commercial breaches and in most cases what we see is the analyst, at some point, had a blinking red light on their screen that was an indicator of that particular breach. The problem is, how do you filter through the noise? That's a problem that this whole industry, it's a signal to noise ratio issue. >> So you guys bring humans to that equation, human intelligence meets analytics and machine intelligence, and your adversary has evolved, and I wonder if you can talk about that, it's gone from sort of hacktivists to organized crime and nation-states, so they've become much more sophisticated. How have the humans sort of evolved as well that your bridge to bear? >> Yeah, I mean certainly the bear to entry is lower, and so now we're seeing ransomware as a service, we're seeing attacks on industrial control systems, on IOT devices, you know, financial services now is extremely concerned about building control systems because if you can compromise and build a control system you can get into potentially laterally move into the enterprise network. And so our analysts now not only are traditional intelligence analysts that understand adversaries and TTPs, but they also need to be technologists, they need to have reverse engineering experience, they need to be malware analysts, they need to be able to look at attack factors in TTPs to be able to put all the stuff in context, and again it goes back to being able to operationalize this intelligence to get value out of it quickly. >> They need to have imaginations, right? I mean thinking like the bad guys, I guess. >> Yeah, I mean we spend a lot of time, we've started up a new capability called Dark Labs and it's our way to be able to unlock some of those folks that think like bad guys and be able to unleash them to look at the world through a different lens, and be able to help provide clients insights into attack factors, new TTPs, and it's fascinating to watch those teams work. >> How does social media come into play here? Or is that a problem at all, or is that a consideration for you at all? >> Well, you know, when we look at a lot of attacks, what's kind of interesting with the space now is you look at nation-state and nation-state activists and they have sophisticated TTPs. In general they don't have to use them. Nation-states haven't even pulled out their quote "good stuff" yet because right now, for the most part they go with low-hanging fruit, low-hanging fruit being-- >> Just pushing the door open, right? >> Yeah, I mean, why try to crash through the wall when you can just, you know, the door's not locked? And so, you know, when you talk about things like social media whether it's phishing, whether it's malware injected in images, or on Facebook, or Twitter, you know, the majority of tacts are either driven through people, or driven through just unpatched systems. And so, you know, it's kind of cliche, but it really starts with policies, training of the people in your organization, but then also putting some more proactive monitoring in place to be able to kind of start to detect some of those more advanced signatures for some of the stuff that's happening in social media. >> It's like having the best security system in the world, but you left your front door unlocked. >> That's right, that's right. >> So I wonder if, Brad, I don't know how much you can say, but I wonder if you could comment just generally, like you said, we haven't seen their best pitch yet, we had Robert Gates on, and when I was interviewing him he said, "You know, we have great offensive posture and security, but we have to be super careful how we use it because when it comes to critical infrastructure we have the most to lose." And when you think about the sort of aftermath of Stuxnet, when basically the Iranians said hey we can do this too, what's the general sort of philosophy inside the beltway around offense versus defense? >> You know, I think from, that's a great question. From an offensive cyber perspective I think where the industry is going is how do you take offensive tradecraft and apply it to defensive? And so by that I mean, think about we take folks that have experience thinking like a bad guy, but unleash them in a security operation center to do things like advanced hunting, and so what they'll do is take large sets of data and start doing hypothesis driven analytics where they'll be able to kind of think like a bad guy and then they'll have developers or techies next to them building different types of analytics to try to take their mind and put it into an analytic that you can run over a set of data to see, hey, is there an actor on your network performing like that? And so I think we see in the space now a lot of focus around hunting and red teaming, and I think that's kind of the industry's way of trying to take some of that offensive mentality, but then apply it on the defensive side. >> Dave: It just acts like kind of Navy Seal operations in security. >> Right, right, yeah. I mean the challenge is there's a finite set of people in the world that really, truly have that level of tradecraft so the question is, how do you actually deliver that at any level of scale that can make a difference across this broader industry. >> So it's the quantity of those skill sets, and they always say that the amazing thing, again I come back to Stuxnet, was that the code was perfect. >> Brad: Yeah. >> The antivirus guy said, "We've never seen anything like that where the code is just perfect." And you're saying it's just a quantity of skills that enables that, that's how you know it's nation-state, obviously, something like that. >> Yeah, I mean the level of expertise, the skill set, the time it take to be able to mature that tradecraft is many many years, and so I think that when we can crack the bubble of how we can take that expertise, deliver it in a defensive way to provide unique insights that, and do that at scale because just taking one of those folks into an organization doesn't help the whole, right? How can you actually kind of operationalize that to be able to deliver that treadecraft through things like analytics as a service, through manage, detection, and response, at scale so that one person can influence many many organizations at one time. >> And, just before we go, so cyber foresight is available today, it's something you're going to market with. >> Yeah, we just partnered with Splunk, it's available as a part of Splunk ES, it's an add-on, and it provides our analysts the ability to provide insights and be able to operationalize that within Splunk, we're super excited about it and it's been a great partnership with Splunk and their ES team. >> Dave: So you guys are going to market together on this one. >> We are partnered, we're going to market together, and delivering the best of our tradecraft and our intelligence analysts with their platform and product. >> Dave: Alright, good luck with it. >> Hey, thank you, thank you very much, guys. >> Good pair, that's for sure, yeah. Thank you, Brad, for being with us here, and Monday night, let's see how it goes, right? >> Yeah, I'm optimistic. >> Very good, alright. Coach Brad Medairy joining us with his rundown on what's happening at Booz Allen. Back with more here on theCube, you're watching live .conf 2017.