>> Announcer: theCUBE presents Kubecon and Cloudnativecon Europe, 2022. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain in Kubecon, Cloudnativecon Europe 2022. I'm Keith Townsend and alongside Enrico senior IT analyst for (indistinct). Welcome back to the show Enrico. >> Thank you again for having me here. >> First impressions of Kubecon. >> Well, great show. As I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mood of talking with each other and people wanting to see the projects, people that build the projects and it's amazing. A lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive mood. >> So this is going to be a fun one, we have some amazing builders on the show this week and none other than William Morgan, CEO of Buoyant. What's your role in the Linkerd project? >> So I was one of the original creators of Linkerd, but at this point I'm just the beautiful face of the project. (all laughing) >> Speaking of beautiful face of the project Linkerd just graduated from as a CNCF project. >> Yeah, that's right so last year we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF, very proud of that and that's thanks largely to the incredible community around Linkerd that is just excited about the project and wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >> So let's talk about the significance of that. Linkerd not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. You don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general so let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Linkerd to this point. >> Yeah so the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the project being technically good or bad or anything but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it so is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it being adopted across industries? Is it having kind of a significant impact on the Cloudnative community? And so for us there was the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in kind of maintaining Linkerd and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with, you try and be supportive and to have a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >> So from the point of view of users adopting this technology, so we are talking about everybody or do you see really large organization, large Kubernetes clusters infrastructure adopting it? >> Yeah, so the answer to that is changed a little bit over time but at this point we see Linkerd adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones so one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming who are going to talk about how they deployed Linkerd across 22,000 pods around the world to serve basically on demand video games. Never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linkerd and at the previous Kubecon virtually Kubecon EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linkerd was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses and it really doesn't, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >> Wow so as we talk about Linkerd service mesh we obviously are going to talk about security, application control, etcetera. But in this climate software supply chain is critical and you think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of Linkerd. >> Yeah so one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project and also as part of, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits where we engage security professionals who are very thorough and dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, so anyone can read through the code but they'll build threat model analysis and things like that. And then we take their report and we publish it. We say, "Hey look, here's the situation." So we have earlier reports online and this newest one was done by a company called Trail of Bits and they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linkerd could go wrong and they always find issues of course, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find- >> Yeah everything's clean. >> Yeah everything's fine, should be okay, I don't know. But they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then everything gets written up in the report and then we publish it, as part of an open source artifact. >> How do you, let's say, do they give you and adds up something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before somebody else discovers the- >> Yeah, they'll give you a preview of what they found and then often it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off to jail, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them understand which parts are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, "Oh you told me that was a a minor issue. "I actually think that's larger or vice versa." You think that's a big problem actually, we thought about that and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >> So Linkerd been around, like when I first learned about service mesh Linkerd was the project that I learned about. It's been there for a long time, just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling- >> Pods, 22,000 pods. >> That's pods. >> Clusters would be great. >> Yeah, clusters would be great too but it filled 22,000 pods. >> It's a big deployment. >> That's a big deployment of Linkerd, but all the way down to the smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates some of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the project as a result? >> Yeah so a big one for us, on the topic of security, Linkerd, a big driver of Linkerd adoption is security and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS, so you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy so you can lock down connections between services and you can say Service A is only allowed to talk to Service B and I want to do that not based on network identity, not based on like IP addresses, 'cause those are spoofable and we've kind of like as an industry moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that but actually based on the workload identity as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >> So, okay this is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us into suggestion on what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >> I think we're done you know we graduated, so we're just going to stop. (all laughing) What else is there to do? There's no grad school. No, so for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead continuing down the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block which at the service level, but coming up in the 2.12 release we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say this service is only allowed to call these three routes on this end point. And we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansions so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes, so the control plane will stay in Kubernetes but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on Vms and things like that. And then of course in the, we're also starting to look at things like, I like to make a fun of (indistinct) a lot but we are actually starting to look at (indistinct) in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linkerd users. >> So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project like Linkerd you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility which usually comes with more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >> Yeah, that's a great question and this is what makes Linkerd so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity so our audience, we can make it easy to install Linkerd but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's going to do? And so every aspect of Linkerd is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, that's always our primary consideration, is we have to reject the urge, we have an urge as engineers to like want to build everything, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say we're not going to do that, we're going to look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set are features because we need to keep things simple and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of Linkerd's success. And then on the Buoyant side, of course, I don't just work on Linkerd, I also work on Buoyant which helps organizations adopt Linkerd and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't want to be service mesh experts, they want to spend their time and energy developing their business, right? And building the business logic that powers their company. So for them we have actually recently introduced, fully managed Linkerd where we can take on, even though Linkerd has to run on your cluster, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of upgrades and trust income rotation, and installation. And you could effectively treat it as a utility, and have a hosted-like experience even though the actual bits, at least most of them not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >> I love the focus of most CNCF projects, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter trying to be become jelly. What's the peanut butter to Linkerd's jelly? Like where does Linkerd stop? And some of the things that customers should really consider when looking at service mesh? >> Yeah, now that's a great way of looking at it and I actually think that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated boundaries. It said, "This is what we're going to do. "And this is what we're not going to do. "So we're going to do layer three, four networking, "but we're going to stop there, "we're not going to do anything with layer seven." And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the bread of the sandwich is Kubernetes, and then Linkerd is the peanut butter, I guess. And then the jelly, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of of building a platform. So if you are the audience for Linkerd most of the time is a platform owners. They're building a platform an internal platform for their developers to write code and so, as part of that, of course you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linkerd, but you've also got a CICD system. You've also got a code repository that's GitLab or or GitHub or whatever, you've got other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly in the, this is analogy it's getting complicated now, and like the platform sandwich that you're serving. >> So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, as we think of the macro. >> Yeah, so it's been an interesting space because, we were talking a little bit about this before the show but, there was so much buzz and then what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things and the people who remain in the Linkerd space are very focused on, "Oh, I actually have a real problem "that I need to solve "and I need to solve it now." So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linkerd side has been trying to reverse that idea, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first and then you're like, "Oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier." So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linkerd is doubling down on the sidecar model trying to make side cars as small and as thin as possible and try and make them kind of transparent to the rest of the application. >> Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. >> William: Thank you. >> CEO of Buoyant. Thank you for joining theCube again, Cube alum. From Valencia Spain, I'm Keith Towns, along with Enrico's (indistinct) and you're watching theCube, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to vincia Spain in Coon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith towns alongside en Rico senior. Etti senior it analyst for giong welcome back to the show en >>Rico. Thank you again for having me here. >>First impressions of QAN. >>Well, great show. As, as I mentioned before, I think that we are really in this very positive mode of talking with each other and people wanting to see, you know, the projects, people that build the projects at it's amazing. I mean, a lot of interesting conversation in the show floor and in the various sessions, very positive move. >>So this is gonna be a fun one. We have some amazing builders on the show this week, and none other than William Morgan, CEO of buoyant. What's your role in the link D project? >>So I was one of the original creators of link D but at this point I'm just the, the beautiful face of the project. >>Speaking of beautiful face of the project, linker D just graduated from as a CNCF project. >>Yeah, that's right. So last year we, we became the first service mesh to graduate in the CNCF. Very proud of that. And that's thanks, you know, largely to the incredible community around Linky that is just excited about the project and, you know, wants to talk about it and wants to be involved. >>So let's talk about the significance of that link D not the only service mesh project out there. Talk to me about the level effort to get it to the point that it's graduated. That's you don't see too many projects graduating CNCF in general. So let's talk about kind of the work needed to get Nier D to this point. >>Yeah. So, you know, the, the, the bar is high and it's mostly a measure, not necessarily of like the, the project being technically good or bad or anything, but it's really a measure of maturity of the community around it. So is it being adopted by organizations that are really relying on it in a critical way? Is it, you know, being adopted across industries, you know, is it having kind of a significant impact on the cloud native community? And so for us, you know, there was the, the work involved in that was really not any different from the work involved in, in kind of maintaining ity and growing the community in the first place, which is you try and make it really useful. You try and make it really easy to get started with you, try and be supportive and to, you know, have a, a friendly and welcoming community. And if you do those things and, you know, you kind of naturally get yourself to the point where it's a, it's a really strong community full of people who are excited about it. >>So from the of view of, you know, users adopting the, this technology, so we are talking about everybody, or do you see really, you know, large organization, large Kubernetes yeah. Clusters infrastructure adopting it. >>Yeah. So that's the answer to that is changed a little bit over time. But at this point we see Linky adoption across industries, across verticals, and we see it from very small companies to very large ones. So, you know, one of the talks I'm really excited about at this conference is from the folks at Xbox cloud gaming, who talked about, who are gonna talk about how they deployed Linky across, you know, 22,000 pods around the world to serve, you know, basically on demand video games, never a use case I would ever have imagined for Linky. And at the previous Kuan, you know, virtually Kuan EU, we had a whole keynote about how Linky was used to combat COVID 19. So all sorts of uses. And it really doesn't, you know, whether, whether it's a small cluster or large cluster it's equally applicable. >>Wow. So as we talk about link D service match, we obviously are gonna talk about security application control, etcetera. But in this climate Software supply chain is critical, right. And as we think about open source software supply chain, talk to us about the recent security audit of link dealer. >>Yeah. So one of the things that we do as part of a CNCF project, and also as part of, I, I think our relationship with our community is we have regular security audits, you know, where we, we engage security professionals who are very thorough and, you know, dig into all the details. Of course the source code is all out there, you know, so anyone can read through the code, but they'll build threat model analyses and things like that. And then we take their, their report and we publish it. We say, Hey, look, here's, you know, here's the situation. So we have earlier reports online, and this newest one was done by a company called trail of bits. And they built a whole threat model and looked through all the different ways that Linky could go wrong. And they always find issues. Of course, you know, it's, it would be very scary, I think, to get a report that was like, no, we didn't find yeah. Earth clean, you know? Yeah. Everything's fine. You know, should be okay. I don't know. Right. But they, you know, they did not find anything critical. They found some issues that we rapidly addressed and then, you know, everything gets written up in the report and, and then we publish it, you know, as part of an open source artifact >>Are, you let's say, you know, do they give you and add something? So if something happens so that you can act on the code before, you know, somebody else discovers the >>Yeah, yeah. They'll give you a preview of what they found. And then often, you know, it's not like you're going before the judge and the judge makes a judgment and then like off the jail, right. It's, it's a dialogue because they don't necessarily understand the project. Well, they definitely don't understand it as well as you do. So you are helping them, you know, understand which parts and, and your, you know, are, are interesting to look at from the security perspective, which parts are not that interesting. They do their own investigation of course, but it's a dialogue the entire time. So you do have an opportunity to say, oh, you told me that was a, a, a minor issue. I actually think that's larger or, or vice versa. You know, you, you think that's a big problem. Actually, we thought about that, and it's not a big problem because of whatever. So it's a collaborative process. >>So link D been around, like, when I first learned about service me link D was the project that I learned about. Yeah. It's been there for a long time, but just mentioned 22,000 clusters. That's just mind boggling pod, 22,000 pods, the pods. Okay. >>Clusters would be >>Great. Yeah. Yeah. Clusters would be great too, but filled 22 thousands pods, big deployment. That's the big deployment of link D but all the way down to the small, smallest set of pods as well. What are some of the recent project updates from of the learnings you bought back from the community and updated the, the project as a result? >>Yeah. So a big one for us, you know, on the topic of security link, a big driver of link adoption is security and, and less on the supply chain side and more on the traffic, like live traffic security. So things like mutual TLS. So you can encrypt the communication between pods and make sure it's authenticated. One of the recent feature additions is authorization policy. So you can lock down connections between services and you can say service a is only allowed to talk to service B. And I wanna do that. Not based on network identity, you know, and not based on like IP addresses, cuz those are spoof. And you know, we've kind of like as an industry moved, moved, we've gotten a little more advanced from that, but actually based on the workload identity, you know, as captured by the mutual TLS certificate exchange. So we give you the ability now to, to, to restrict the types of communication that are allowed to happen on your cluster. >>So, okay. This is what happened. What about the future? Can you give us, you know, into suggestion of what is going to happen in the medium and long term? >>I think we're done, you know, we graduated, so we're just gonna >>Stop there's >>What else is there to do? There's no grad school, you know? No, no. So for us, there's a clear roadmap ahead, continuing down the, the security realm, for sure. We've given you kind of the very first building block, which at the service level, but coming up in, in the two point 12 release, we'll have route based policy as well, as you can say, this service is only allowed to call these three, you know, routes on this end point and we'll be working later to do things like mesh expansion so we can run the data plane outside of Kubernetes. You know, so the control plane will stay in in Kubernetes, but the data plane will, you'll be able to run that on VMs and, and, and things like that. And then of course in the, you know, we're also starting to look at things like I like to make a fun of WAM a lot, but we are actually starting to look at WAM in, in the ways that that might actually be useful for Linky users. >>So we talk a lot about the flexibility of a project, like link D you can do amazing things with it from a security perspective, but we're talking still to a DevOps type cloud of, of, of developers who are spread thin across their skillset. How do you help balance the need for the flexibility, which usually becomes more nerd knobs and servicing a crowd that wants even higher levels of abstraction and simplicity. >>Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And this is, this is what makes Linky so unique in the service mesh spaces. We have a laser focus on simplicity and especially on operational simplicity. So our audience, you know, we can make it easy to install Linky, but what we really care about is when you're running it and you're on call for it and it's sitting in this critical, vulnerable part of your infrastructure, do you feel confident in that? Do you feel like you understand it? Do you feel like you can observe it? Do you feel like you can predict what it's gonna do? And so every aspect of Linky is designed to be as operationally simple as possible. So when we deliver features, you know, that's always our, our primary consideration is, you know, we have to reject the urge. You know, we have an urge as, as engineers to like want to build everything, you know, it's an ultimate platform to solve all problems and we have to really be disciplined and say, we're not gonna do that. >>We're gonna look at solving the minimum possible problem with a minimum set of features because we need to keep things simple. And, and then we need to look at the human aspect to that. And I think that's been a part of, of Link's success. And then on the buoyant side, of course, you know, I don't just work on link day. I also work on, on buoyant, which helps organizations adopt Linky and, and increasingly large organizations that are not service mesh experts don't wanna be service mesh experts that, you know, they wanna spend their time and energy developing their business, right. And, and building the business logic that powers their company. So for them, we have actually re recently introduced, fully managed. Linky where we can take on, even though Linky has to run on your cluster, right? The, the, the, the sidecar proxies has to be alongside your application. We can actually take on the operational burden of, of upgrades and trust, anchor rotation, and installation. And you can effectively treat it as a utility, right. And, and, and have a, a hosted, like, experience, even though the, the actual bits, at least most of them, not all of them, most of 'em have to live on your cluster. >>I love the focus of most CNCF projects, you know, it's, it's peanut butter or jelly, not peanut butter. Yeah. Trying to be become jelly. Right. What's the, what's the, what's the peanut butter to link D's jelly. Like where does link D stop and some of the things that customers should really consider yeah. When looking at service mesh. >>Yeah. No, that's a great way of looking at it. And I, I actually think that that philosophy comes from Kubernetes. I think Kubernetes itself, one of the reasons it was so successful is because it had some clearly delineated, it said, this is what we're gonna do. Right. And this is what we're not gonna do. So we're gonna do layer three, four networking. Right. But we're gonna stop there. We're not gonna do anything with layer seven. And that allowed the service mesh. So I guess if I were to go down the, the bread, the bread of the sandwich has Kubernetes, and then Linky is the, is the peanut butter, I guess, and then the jelly, you know, so I think the jelly is every other aspect of, of building a platform. Right. So if you are the, the audience for Linky, most of the time, it's a platform owners, right. They're building a platform, an internal platform for their developers to write code. And so, as part of that, of course, you've got Kubernetes, you've got Linky, but you've also got a C I CD system. You've also got a, you know, a code repository, if it's GitLab or, or GitHub or wherever you've got, you know, other kind of tools that are enforcing various other constraints. All of that is the jelly, you know, in the, this is, analogy's getting complicated now. And like the, the platform sandwich that, you know, that you're serving. >>So talk to us about trans and service mesh from the, from the, as we think of the macro. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it's been an interesting space because we were talking a little bit about, you know, about this before the show, but the, there was so much buzz, you know, and then what we, what we saw was basically it took two years for that buzz to become actual adoption, you know, and now a lot of the buzz is off on other exciting things. And the people who remain in the Linky space are, are very focused on, oh, I actually have a, a real problem that I need to solve and I need to solve it now. So that's been great. So in terms of broader trends, you know, I think one thing we've seen for sure is the service mesh space is kind of notorious for complexity, you know, and a lot of what we've been doing on the Linky side has been trying to, to reverse that, that, that idea, you know, because it doesn't actually have to be complex. There's interesting stuff you can do, especially when you get into the way we handle the sidecar model. It's actually really, it's a wonderful model operationally. It's really, it feels weird at first. And then you're like, oh, actually this makes my operations a lot easier. So a lot of the trends that I see at least for Linky is doubling down on the sidecar model, trying to make side cards as small and as thin as possible and try and make them, you know, kind of transparent to the rest of the application. So >>Well, William Morgan, one of the coolest Twitter handles I've seen at WM on Twitter, that's actually a really cool Twitter handle. Thank you, CEO of buoyant. Thank you for joining the cube again. Cube alum from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith towns, along with en Rico, and you're watching the cube, the leader in high tech coverage.

(gentle music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE's presentation of the AWS Showcase season one, episode two with the ISV Startups partners. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're joined by Morgan McLean, director of product management at Splunk, and Danielle Greshock, who is the director of ISVs solution architects at AWS. Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> And great. Thanks for having us. >> Great to see both of you, both theCUBE alumni, but the Splunk-AWS relationship has been going very, very well. You guys are doing great business enabling this app revolution. And cloud scale has been going extremely well. So let's get into it. You guys are involved in a lot of action around application revolution, around OpenTelemetry and open source. So let's get into it. What's the latest? >> Danielle, you go ahead. >> Well, I'll just jump in first. Obviously last year, not last year, but in 2020, we launched the AWS Distro for OpenTelemetry. The idea being essentially, we're able to bring in data from partners, from infrastructure running on AWS, from apps running on AWS, to really be able to increase observability across all cloud assets at your entire cloud platform. So, Morgan, if you want to chime in on how Splunk >> Morgan: Certainly. >> has worked out OpenTelemetry. >> Yeah. I mean, OpenTelemetry is super exciting. Obviously, there's a lot of partnership points between Amazon and Splunk, but OpenTelemetry is probably one of them that's the most visible to people who aren't already maybe using these two products together. And so, as Danielle mentioned, Amazon has their own distribution of OpenTelemetry, Splunk has their own, as well, and of course there's the main open source distribution that everybody knows and loves. Just for our viewers, just for clarity's sake, the separate distributions are fundamentally very similar to, almost identical to what's offered in the open source space, but they come preconfigured and they come with support guarantees from each company, meaning that you can actually get paid full support for an open source project, which is really fantastic for customers. And as Danielle mentioned, it's a great demonstration of the alliance between Splunk and Amazon Web Services. For example, the AWS Distro, when you use it, can export data to Amazon CloudWatch, various Amazon backed open source initiatives like Prometheus and others, and to Splunk Observability Cloud and to Splunk Enterprise. So it's a place that we've worked very closely together, and it's something that we're very excited about. >> So, Morgan, I want to get your take on the on the product management side and also how product are built these days. >> One of the big things we're seeing in cloud is that open source has been the big enabler for a lot of refactoring. And you got multiple distributions, but the innovations on top of that, can you talk about how you see the productization of new innovations with open source as you guys go into this market, because this is the new dynamic with cloud. We're seeing examples all over the place. Obviously, Amazon's going next level with what they're doing, and that open source, it's not a one game for all of it. You can have mix and match. Take us through the product angle. >> And in many ways, this is just another wave of the same thing, right? Like, if you think back in time, we all used and still use in many cases, virtual machines, most of those are based on Linux, right? Another large open source project. And so, open source software has been accelerating innovation in the cloud space and in the computing space generally for a very long time, which is fantastic. Our excitement with something like OpenTelemetry comes from both the project's capabilities but also what we can do with it. So for those who aren't already familiar with OpenTelemetry, OpenTelemetry allows you to extract really critical system telemetry, application signals and everything else you need from your own applications, from new services, from your infrastructure, from everything that you're running in a cloud environment. You can then send that data to another location for processing. And so John, you ask like, how does this accelerate innovation? What does it unlock? Well, the insight you can gain from this data means you can become so much more efficient as a development organization. You can make your applications so much more effective because when you send that data to something like Splunk Observability Cloud, to something like Amazon CloudWatch, to various other solutions on the market, they can give you deep, deep insight into your application's performance, to its structure, they can help you reduce outages. And so, it's very, very powerful because it allows organizations to use tools like Splunk, like Amazon, like other things to innovate so much more effectively. >> Danielle, can you comment >> If I could... >> on the AWS side because this is again on the big point. You guys are going next level, and you're starting to see patterns in the ISV world, certainly on the architecture side of partners doing things differently now on top of what they've already done. Could you share how AWS is helping customers accelerate? >> Well, just as Morgan was talking about what OpenTelemetry provides, you can see how from a partnership perspective, this is so valuable, right? What the partner team here at AWS is in the business of doing, is really enabling customer choice, right? And having that ability to plug in and pull data from different sources, post it to different sources, make it available for visibility across all of your resources is very powerful and it's something from the partner community that we really value because we want customers to be able to select best of breed solutions, what works for their business, which businesses are different and they may have different needs, and that also fosters that true innovation. A small company is going to develop and release software a lot differently than a large enterprise. And so, being able to support something like OpenTelemetry just enables that for all different kinds of customers. >> Morgan, add to that because the velocity of releases, certainly operational, stability, is key every predominant security, uptime, these are top concerns. And, you mention data too, >> And you mention challenges. >> You got the data in here. So you got a lot of data moving around, a lot of value. What's your take? >> Yeah. So, I'll speak with some specifics. So a challenge that developers have had for years when you're developing large services, which you can now do with platforms like AWS. So, it's very easy to go develop huge deployments. But a challenge they have is you go and build a mess, right? And like, I've worked earlier in my career in Web Services. And I remember in one of the first orgs I was in, I was one of the five people who really understood our ecommerce stack. Right? And so like, I would get dragged into all these meetings and I'd have to go draw like the 50 services we had, and how they interacted, and the changes that were made in the last week. And without observability tools like Splunk Observability Cloud, like the ones offered by Amazon, like the ones that are backed by the data that comes with OpenTelemetry, organizations basically rely on people like this, to go draw out their deployments so they understand what it is they've built. Well, as you can imagine, this crimps your development velocity, because most of your engineers, most of your tech leads, most of everyone else don't actually understand what it is they've built what it is they're running, because they need that global context. You get something like OpenTelemetry and the solutions that consume the data from it, and suddenly now, all your developers have that context, all of them when they're adding functionality to a service or they're updating their infrastructure, can actually understand how it interacts with the rest of the broader application. This lets you speed up your time to development, this lets you ship more safely, more securely. And finally, when things do go wrong, which will be less frequent, but when they do go wrong, you can fix them super rapidly. >> If I'm a customer, let me ask a question. I'm a customer and I say, "Okay, I love AWS, I love Splunk, I love OpenTelemetry. I got to have open sources, technology innovation is happening." What's the integration? What are some of the standards? Can you take us through how that's working together with you guys as a shared platform? >> Yeah. So let's take the Amazon distribution for OpenTelemetry or even the Splunk one. One of the first things they do is they include all of the receivers, all of the sort of data capture components that you need, out of box for platforms like AWS, right? And so, right away, you get that power and flexibility where you're getting access to all of these data sources, right? And so, that's part of that partnership. And additionally, once the data comes into OpenTelemetry, you can now send that to various different data sources, including, as Danielle mentioned, to multiple at the same time. So you can use whatever tools you want. And so when you talk about like what the partnership is actually providing to you as a customer and still, this is just within the context of OpenTelemetry, obviously there's a much broader partnership between these two companies than just that. But within the context of OpenTelemetry means you can download one of these distributions. It's fully supported. It works with both solutions and everything is just great, right? You don't need to go fiddle with that out of the box. To be clear, OpenTelemetry is a batteries included project, right? This means that even the standard distributions of OpenTelemetry include the components you need. You have to go directly, reference them and ensure that they're packaged in there, but they exist, right. But the nice thing about these distributions is that it's done, it's out of the box, you don't even have to worry about is something missing or do I need to include new exporters or new receivers? It's all there. It's preconfigured. It just works. And if something goes wrong and you have a support contact, you pick up the phone, you talk to someone to get it fixed. >> Danielle, what's the Amazon side 'cause agility and scale is one of the highlights you guys are seeing. How does this tie into that and how are you guys working backwards from the customers to support the partners? >> Well, I think just to add on essentially to what Morgan said, I think that AWS is a cloud platform, has always really had a focus on developers. And, we talk a lot about how AWS and Amazon as a whole really embraces this continuous integration and continuous deployment methods inside of our organization. And we talk about services, and observability is a huge part of that. The only way that you're actually able to release hundreds, thousands of times a day like Amazon does, is by having an observability platform, to be able to measure metrics, see changes in the environment, to be able to roll back if you need to, and to be able to quickly mitigate any challenges or anything that goes wrong at any part of the process. And so, when we preach that to our customers, I think it's something that we do that because we live it and breathe it. And so, things such as OpenTelemetry and such as the products that Splunk builds, those are also ways in which we believe our customers can achieve that. >> Yeah. And we can... I mean, as I mentioned before, this partnership goes well beyond OpenTelemetry, right? And so, if you go use like Splunk Enterprise, Enterprise Cloud, Splunk Observability Cloud, and you're running on AWS, you have excellent support and excellent visibility into your Amazon infrastructure, into the services and applications you've deployed on top of that infrastructure. We try and give you, and I think we do succeed in this. We give you the best possible experience, the deepest possible visibility, into what it is you've deployed on AWS, so that you can be even more successful as a business, and so that you can be even more successful on AWS as a platform. >> Yeah. This is a great conversation, Morgan. You mentioned the early days of Web Services. AWS stands for Amazon Web Services built on web services. So interesting throwback there, but made me think about the days of the early days of web services. And if you look at data, what's going on now, the top partners in AWS, you're seeing a lot of people thinking about data differently, they're refactoring, a lot of machine learning, a lot of AI going on at scale. So then, you got cloud native, things like Kubernetes and these new services being stood up and teared down with automation. A whole new operating model's coming. And so when you think about observability, the importance of it, I mean, can you share your perspective on this whole 'nother level? I mean, I always say that whole another level sounds cliche, but it is next level. I mean, this is completely different. What's your reaction? >> Yeah. There there's a ton of factors here, right? So as you point out, companies are totally shifting how they use their cloud infrastructure. And part of this you see during their cloud migrations, a part of it you see after, and they're shifting from their sort of stateful VMs that they may have had in the past to infrastructure that they tear down and put up regularly. And there's a lot more automation. With this, comes as I mentioned before, complexity, right? And also, with this comes more and more businesses becoming even more reliant on their digital infrastructure. And so, not having observability into your applications, into your services, into your infrastructure, to me, is akin to running a business, say running a large warehousing or distribution company, but not having any idea where you're shipping products or where things are, or not having any accounting or CFO, right? Like, business has become so digital. Business is so reliant on technology, and that's unlocked a ton of new things. It's great. But not having visibility into how that technology works or what it is that's deployed or how to fix it is akin to having no visibility to anything else in your business. It's nuts. And so, observability is super, super critical, particularly for customers who are adopting this new wave of cloud technologies on platforms like AWS. >> Danielle, on your side too, you're enabling this new capability so that businesses can do it, the partners do it, we're calling it super cloud. We've been calling it super cloud kind of dynamic where new things are happening with the data. And you guys are evolving with that. Can you share what you're seeing on your side as your partners start to go to the next level? What are you guys doing? How does it all come together? >> Well, we always talk about what has happened with data in the last couple of years, which the cloud has really enabled around, you know, variety and velocity and there's one other "V" that's escaping me right now, but essentially, all of this data is coming in and providing the ability for us to make better decisions, to build better products, to provide better experiences for customers. And so, I just think, the OpenTelemetry project, as well as what Splunk is doing is just another example of how we're taking this massive amount of data and being able to provide better experiences and outcomes for customers. >> And you guys have been working along together for long time, Splunk, and, it's been a great partners, if we're going back with that been covering it on theCUBE and SiliconANGLE. So, we know that, the change is key observability. Can you imagine a company without a CFO, Morgan? That's just boggles your mind, but that's what it's like right now. So... >> It is, yeah. >> And the people who take advantage of that are winning, right? So it's like, that's the key. >> Yeah, I know. I mean, even in my own career, right, I've moved between different companies. And I remember, when I joined Google in particular, which is where I worked at previously, I was very impressed with their internal observability tools. And I'm certain, I haven't worked at Amazon. I'm certainly, I just assume inside of Amazon they're excellent as well, so a lot of the large cloud firms these days. But it was so refreshing going from an organization where if we had some outage or something went wrong, there were like a very small set of people who could actually understand what was going on. And then you would just have to manually dive through logs and correlate requests manually between services. It's very challenging. And so, when things went wrong, they went wrong for a long, long time. And so, the companies that understood this even in the past are already very successful as a result. I think now, the rest of the industry is really in the midst of adopting these observability practices and the tools that are required to implement them, because you're right. Otherwise your development velocity slows down. Now you're getting out competed by your competition. And then, when you have a problem, it blows up for ages. And once again, your competition can take advantage of it. >> And, can you just summarize the observability piece relative to the OpenTelemetry? Where is that going to go? Where do you see that evolving? >> Sure. >> I see open source is growing like crazy, we all know that. >> Of course. >> But OpenTelemetry in particular and open source, 'cause this is a big hot area. >> Yes. So to set the stage for people, OpenTelemetry, unlocks observability in many ways. As I mentioned earlier, OpenTelemetry is how you capture data out of your application. It doesn't process it. It's not a replacement for something like Amazon CloudWatch or any Splunk's products, but it's how we get the data out of your system, which is a remarkably difficult problem. I won't dive into it today, but, those who work in this space are very aware. That's why this project exists and it's so big, that actually extracting information, metrics, logs, distributed traces, profiles, everything else, from your applications and from your infrastructure is very, very difficult. So for OpenTelemetry, where it's going is just continually getting better at extracting more types of data from more sources, and doing that more effectively for people in a more standardized way. That will unlock firms like Splunk, firms, like Amazon and others to better process this data. In terms of where that's going, the sky's the limit, right? Like, everyone's familiar with APM, people are familiar with infrastructure monitoring, but there's a lot more capabilities coming there for security analytics, for network performance monitoring, for getting down all the way to single lines of coding your application, how they impact everything. There's just so much power that's coming to the industry right now. I'm really excited to see where things go in the next few years. >> And Danielle, you're in the middle of all the action as a solution architect, really set the stage for their companies and the ISVs, and this is a big, hot area. What are the patterns you're seeing and what are some of the best practices that you're doing will help companies? >> Right. So I think, summarizing our entire conversation, the big things that we're seeing in the market is essentially more and more companies are looking to move to a continuous deployment and a continuous integration environment. And they're looking to innovate faster and spend less time hot patching or hot fixing their environments and they want to spend more time innovating. And so, that you know, the patterns that we're seeing is... What I see and what I actually experience firsthand at re:Invent when I talk to probably over 40 or 50 ISVs, is customers want to know in their environment, where are their changes? Where are their security vulnerabilities? Where are their data changes, and what are customers really experiencing, whether it's latency, poor experience throughout their products, those types of things? So security, data, and observability are just key to all of that experience and that's what we're definitely seeing as patterns, what we're seeing with our customers and also what value our ISVs are providing in that space. >> That's awesome. And the other thing I would observe is that there's more of an integration story going on around joint projects, whether it's open source. >> Absolutely. >> Because this is where we want to get that services connected. And it's mutual beneficial. I mean, this is really >> Exactly. >> whole 'nother, new kind of interoperable cloud scale. >> Yeah, if I could say one thing else there, I think that, a lot of the customers who are trying to move into the cloud now are, maybe not technology forward companies and they really need that solution. And that's very important. I think COVID has pushed a lot of companies into the cloud maybe very quickly. And, that has been something else we've observed in the market. So, solutions and full solutions between ISVs and ISVs, or ISVs and AWS is just becoming more and more common thing that we see. >> And, you mentioned John, in the open source space as well. Like, we're certainly from Amazon to Splunk. So we're talking a lot about those, but there's a lot of other firms involved in projects like OpenTelemetry. And I think it's very endearing, very heartening to see how well they cooperate in this community and how, when their interests are aligned, how effective they can be. And it's been very exciting to work in the space and very pleasant, honestly, to see everything come together with this huge set of customers and partners. >> Yeah. The pleasant surprise of the pandemic has been that people come into the cloud and they like it and they, "Hey, this works," and they double down on it. Then they realize, there's more there and they refactor. So, you're seeing real examples of that. So, this is a great discussion, great success story. Congratulations Morgan, Danielle. >> Thank you. >> Great partnership between Splunk and AWS. We've been following for a long time. And again, this highlights this whole another level of integrating super cloud kind of experience where people are getting more capabilities and doing more together, so great stuff. >> And this is just one facet of that, right? Like, there's all the other connections of Splunk Enterprise, Splunk security analytics products, and others. It's a deep, deep partnership between these firms. >> Yeah. And the companies that innovate and get that new capability are going to have an advantage. And you're seeing... >> Yes. >> Right? >> Agreed. >> And this is awesome, and great stuff, thank you for coming on and sharing that insight. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations Morgan over there at Splunk, great stuff. And Danielle, thanks for coming on and sharing the AWS perspective. >> Thanks for having me. >> And you guys are going to the next level. You moving up to stack as they say, all good stuff for customers. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> This is season one, episode two of the AWS Partner Showcase. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

(gentle music) >> Hello, welcome to theCUBE's presentation of the AWS Showcase season one, episode two with the ISV Startups partners. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. We're joined by Morgan McLean, director of product management at Splunk, and Danielle Greshock, who is the director of ISVs solution architects at AWS. Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having us. >> And great. Thanks for having us. >> Great to see both of you, both theCUBE alumni, but the Splunk-AWS relationship has been going very, very well. You guys are doing great business enabling this app revolution. And cloud scale has been going extremely well. So let's get into it. You guys are involved in a lot of action around application revolution, around OpenTelemetry and open source. So let's get into it. What's the latest? >> Danielle, you go ahead. >> Well, I'll just jump in first. Obviously last year, not last year, but in 2020, we launched the AWS Distro for OpenTelemetry. The idea being essentially, we're able to bring in data from partners, from infrastructure running on AWS, from apps running on AWS, to really be able to increase observability across all cloud assets at your entire cloud platform. So, Morgan, if you want to chime in on how Splunk >> Morgan: Certainly. >> has worked out OpenTelemetry. >> Yeah. I mean, OpenTelemetry is super exciting. Obviously, there's a lot of partnership points between Amazon and Splunk, but OpenTelemetry is probably one of them that's the most visible to people who aren't already maybe using these two products together. And so, as Danielle mentioned, Amazon has their own distribution of OpenTelemetry, Splunk has their own, as well, and of course there's the main open source distribution that everybody knows and loves. Just for our viewers, just for clarity's sake, the separate distributions are fundamentally very similar to, almost identical to what's offered in the open source space, but they come preconfigured and they come with support guarantees from each company, meaning that you can actually get paid full support for an open source project, which is really fantastic for customers. And as Danielle mentioned, it's a great demonstration of the alliance between Splunk and Amazon Web Services. For example, the AWS Distro, when you use it, can export data to Amazon CloudWatch, various Amazon backed open source initiatives like Prometheus and others, and to Splunk Observability Cloud and to Splunk Enterprise. So it's a place that we've worked very closely together, and it's something that we're very excited about. >> So, Morgan, I want to get your take on the on the product management side and also how product are built these days. >> One of the big things we're seeing in cloud is that open source has been the big enabler for a lot of refactoring. And you got multiple distributions, but the innovations on top of that, can you talk about how you see the productization of new innovations with open source as you guys go into this market, because this is the new dynamic with cloud. We're seeing examples all over the place. Obviously, Amazon's going next level with what they're doing, and that open source, it's not a one game for all of it. You can have mix and match. Take us through the product angle. >> And in many ways, this is just another wave of the same thing, right? Like, if you think back in time, we all used and still use in many cases, virtual machines, most of those are based on Linux, right? Another large open source project. And so, open source software has been accelerating innovation in the cloud space and in the computing space generally for a very long time, which is fantastic. Our excitement with something like OpenTelemetry comes from both the project's capabilities but also what we can do with it. So for those who aren't already familiar with OpenTelemetry, OpenTelemetry allows you to extract really critical system telemetry, application signals and everything else you need from your own applications, from new services, from your infrastructure, from everything that you're running in a cloud environment. You can then send that data to another location for processing. And so John, you ask like, how does this accelerate innovation? What does it unlock? Well, the insight you can gain from this data means you can become so much more efficient as a development organization. You can make your applications so much more effective because when you send that data to something like Splunk Observability Cloud, to something like Amazon CloudWatch, to various other solutions on the market, they can give you deep, deep insight into your application's performance, to its structure, they can help you reduce outages. And so, it's very, very powerful because it allows organizations to use tools like Splunk, like Amazon, like other things to innovate so much more effectively. >> Danielle, can you comment >> If I could... >> on the AWS side because this is again on the big point. You guys are going next level, and you're starting to see patterns in the ISV world, certainly on the architecture side of partners doing things differently now on top of what they've already done. Could you share how AWS is helping customers accelerate? >> Well, just as Morgan was talking about what OpenTelemetry provides, you can see how from a partnership perspective, this is so valuable, right? What the partner team here at AWS is in the business of doing, is really enabling customer choice, right? And having that ability to plug in and pull data from different sources, post it to different sources, make it available for visibility across all of your resources is very powerful and it's something from the partner community that we really value because we want customers to be able to select best of breed solutions, what works for their business, which businesses are different and they may have different needs, and that also fosters that true innovation. A small company is going to develop and release software a lot differently than a large enterprise. And so, being able to support something like OpenTelemetry just enables that for all different kinds of customers. >> Morgan, add to that because the velocity of releases, certainly operational, stability, is key every predominant security, uptime, these are top concerns. And, you mention data too, >> And you mention challenges. >> You got the data in here. So you got a lot of data moving around, a lot of value. What's your take? >> Yeah. So, I'll speak with some specifics. So a challenge that developers have had for years when you're developing large services, which you can now do with platforms like AWS. So, it's very easy to go develop huge deployments. But a challenge they have is you go and build a mess, right? And like, I've worked earlier in my career in Web Services. And I remember in one of the first orgs I was in, I was one of the five people who really understood our ecommerce stack. Right? And so like, I would get dragged into all these meetings and I'd have to go draw like the 50 services we had, and how they interacted, and the changes that were made in the last week. And without observability tools like Splunk Observability Cloud, like the ones offered by Amazon, like the ones that are backed by the data that comes with OpenTelemetry, organizations basically rely on people like this, to go draw out their deployments so they understand what it is they've built. Well, as you can imagine, this crimps your development velocity, because most of your engineers, most of your tech leads, most of everyone else don't actually understand what it is they've built what it is they're running, because they need that global context. You get something like OpenTelemetry and the solutions that consume the data from it, and suddenly now, all your developers have that context, all of them when they're adding functionality to a service or they're updating their infrastructure, can actually understand how it interacts with the rest of the broader application. This lets you speed up your time to development, this lets you ship more safely, more securely. And finally, when things do go wrong, which will be less frequent, but when they do go wrong, you can fix them super rapidly. >> If I'm a customer, let me ask a question. I'm a customer and I say, "Okay, I love AWS, I love Splunk, I love OpenTelemetry. I got to have open sources, technology innovation is happening." What's the integration? What are some of the standards? Can you take us through how that's working together with you guys as a shared platform? >> Yeah. So let's take the Amazon distribution for OpenTelemetry or even the Splunk one. One of the first things they do is they include all of the receivers, all of the sort of data capture components that you need, out of box for platforms like AWS, right? And so, right away, you get that power and flexibility where you're getting access to all of these data sources, right? And so, that's part of that partnership. And additionally, once the data comes into OpenTelemetry, you can now send that to various different data sources, including, as Danielle mentioned, to multiple at the same time. So you can use whatever tools you want. And so when you talk about like what the partnership is actually providing to you as a customer and still, this is just within the context of OpenTelemetry, obviously there's a much broader partnership between these two companies than just that. But within the context of OpenTelemetry means you can download one of these distributions. It's fully supported. It works with both solutions and everything is just great, right? You don't need to go fiddle with that out of the box. To be clear, OpenTelemetry is a batteries included project, right? This means that even the standard distributions of OpenTelemetry include the components you need. You have to go directly, reference them and ensure that they're packaged in there, but they exist, right. But the nice thing about these distributions is that it's done, it's out of the box, you don't even have to worry about is something missing or do I need to include new exporters or new receivers? It's all there. It's preconfigured. It just works. And if something goes wrong and you have a support contact, you pick up the phone, you talk to someone to get it fixed. >> Danielle, what's the Amazon side 'cause agility and scale is one of the highlights you guys are seeing. How does this tie into that and how are you guys working backwards from the customers to support the partners? >> Well, I think just to add on essentially to what Morgan said, I think that AWS is a cloud platform, has always really had a focus on developers. And, we talk a lot about how AWS and Amazon as a whole really embraces this continuous integration and continuous deployment methods inside of our organization. And we talk about services, and observability is a huge part of that. The only way that you're actually able to release hundreds, thousands of times a day like Amazon does, is by having an observability platform, to be able to measure metrics, see changes in the environment, to be able to roll back if you need to, and to be able to quickly mitigate any challenges or anything that goes wrong at any part of the process. And so, when we preach that to our customers, I think it's something that we do that because we live it and breathe it. And so, things such as OpenTelemetry and such as the products that Splunk builds, those are also ways in which we believe our customers can achieve that. >> Yeah. And we can... I mean, as I mentioned before, this partnership goes well beyond OpenTelemetry, right? And so, if you go use like Splunk Enterprise, Enterprise Cloud, Splunk Observability Cloud, and you're running on AWS, you have excellent support and excellent visibility into your Amazon infrastructure, into the services and applications you've deployed on top of that infrastructure. We try and give you, and I think we do succeed in this. We give you the best possible experience, the deepest possible visibility, into what it is you've deployed on AWS, so that you can be even more successful as a business, and so that you can be even more successful on AWS as a platform. >> Yeah. This is a great conversation, Morgan. You mentioned the early days of Web Services. AWS stands for Amazon Web Services built on web services. So interesting throwback there, but made me think about the days of the early days of web services. And if you look at data, what's going on now, the top partners in AWS, you're seeing a lot of people thinking about data differently, they're refactoring, a lot of machine learning, a lot of AI going on at scale. So then, you got cloud native, things like Kubernetes and these new services being stood up and teared down with automation. A whole new operating model's coming. And so when you think about observability, the importance of it, I mean, can you share your perspective on this whole 'nother level? I mean, I always say that whole another level sounds cliche, but it is next level. I mean, this is completely different. What's your reaction? >> Yeah. There there's a ton of factors here, right? So as you point out, companies are totally shifting how they use their cloud infrastructure. And part of this you see during their cloud migrations, a part of it you see after, and they're shifting from their sort of stateful VMs that they may have had in the past to infrastructure that they tear down and put up regularly. And there's a lot more automation. With this, comes as I mentioned before, complexity, right? And also, with this comes more and more businesses becoming even more reliant on their digital infrastructure. And so, not having observability into your applications, into your services, into your infrastructure, to me, is akin to running a business, say running a large warehousing or distribution company, but not having any idea where you're shipping products or where things are, or not having any accounting or CFO, right? Like, business has become so digital. Business is so reliant on technology, and that's unlocked a ton of new things. It's great. But not having visibility into how that technology works or what it is that's deployed or how to fix it is akin to having no visibility to anything else in your business. It's nuts. And so, observability is super, super critical, particularly for customers who are adopting this new wave of cloud technologies on platforms like AWS. >> Danielle, on your side too, you're enabling this new capability so that businesses can do it, the partners do it, we're calling it super cloud. We've been calling it super cloud kind of dynamic where new things are happening with the data. And you guys are evolving with that. Can you share what you're seeing on your side as your partners start to go to the next level? What are you guys doing? How does it all come together? >> Well, we always talk about what has happened with data in the last couple of years, which the cloud has really enabled around, you know, variety and velocity and there's one other "V" that's escaping me right now, but essentially, all of this data is coming in and providing the ability for us to make better decisions, to build better products, to provide better experiences for customers. And so, I just think, the OpenTelemetry project, as well as what Splunk is doing is just another example of how we're taking this massive amount of data and being able to provide better experiences and outcomes for customers. >> And you guys have been working along together for long time, Splunk, and, it's been a great partners, if we're going back with that been covering it on theCUBE and SiliconANGLE. So, we know that, the change is key observability. Can you imagine a company without a CFO, Morgan? That's just boggles your mind, but that's what it's like right now. So... >> It is, yeah. >> And the people who take advantage of that are winning, right? So it's like, that's the key. >> Yeah, I know. I mean, even in my own career, right, I've moved between different companies. And I remember, when I joined Google in particular, which is where I worked at previously, I was very impressed with their internal observability tools. And I'm certain, I haven't worked at Amazon. I'm certainly, I just assume inside of Amazon they're excellent as well, so a lot of the large cloud firms these days. But it was so refreshing going from an organization where if we had some outage or something went wrong, there were like a very small set of people who could actually understand what was going on. And then you would just have to manually dive through logs and correlate requests manually between services. It's very challenging. And so, when things went wrong, they went wrong for a long, long time. And so, the companies that understood this even in the past are already very successful as a result. I think now, the rest of the industry is really in the midst of adopting these observability practices and the tools that are required to implement them, because you're right. Otherwise your development velocity slows down. Now you're getting out competed by your competition. And then, when you have a problem, it blows up for ages. And once again, your competition can take advantage of it. >> And, can you just summarize the observability piece relative to the OpenTelemetry? Where is that going to go? Where do you see that evolving? >> Sure. >> I see open source is growing like crazy, we all know that. >> Of course. >> But OpenTelemetry in particular and open source, 'cause this is a big hot area. >> Yes. So to set the stage for people, OpenTelemetry, unlocks observability in many ways. As I mentioned earlier, OpenTelemetry is how you capture data out of your application. It doesn't process it. It's not a replacement for something like Amazon CloudWatch or any Splunk's products, but it's how we get the data out of your system, which is a remarkably difficult problem. I won't dive into it today, but, those who work in this space are very aware. That's why this project exists and it's so big, that actually extracting information, metrics, logs, distributed traces, profiles, everything else, from your applications and from your infrastructure is very, very difficult. So for OpenTelemetry, where it's going is just continually getting better at extracting more types of data from more sources, and doing that more effectively for people in a more standardized way. That will unlock firms like Splunk, firms, like Amazon and others to better process this data. In terms of where that's going, the sky's the limit, right? Like, everyone's familiar with APM, people are familiar with infrastructure monitoring, but there's a lot more capabilities coming there for security analytics, for network performance monitoring, for getting down all the way to single lines of coding your application, how they impact everything. There's just so much power that's coming to the industry right now. I'm really excited to see where things go in the next few years. >> And Danielle, you're in the middle of all the action as a solution architect, really set the stage for their companies and the ISVs, and this is a big, hot area. What are the patterns you're seeing and what are some of the best practices that you're doing will help companies? >> Right. So I think, summarizing our entire conversation, the big things that we're seeing in the market is essentially more and more companies are looking to move to a continuous deployment and a continuous integration environment. And they're looking to innovate faster and spend less time hot patching or hot fixing their environments and they want to spend more time innovating. And so, that you know, the patterns that we're seeing is... What I see and what I actually experience firsthand at re:Invent when I talk to probably over 40 or 50 ISVs, is customers want to know in their environment, where are their changes? Where are their security vulnerabilities? Where are their data changes, and what are customers really experiencing, whether it's latency, poor experience throughout their products, those types of things? So security, data, and observability are just key to all of that experience and that's what we're definitely seeing as patterns, what we're seeing with our customers and also what value our ISVs are providing in that space. >> That's awesome. And the other thing I would observe is that there's more of an integration story going on around joint projects, whether it's open source. >> Absolutely. >> Because this is where we want to get that services connected. And it's mutual beneficial. I mean, this is really >> Exactly. >> whole 'nother, new kind of interoperable cloud scale. >> Yeah, if I could say one thing else there, I think that, a lot of the customers who are trying to move into the cloud now are, maybe not technology forward companies and they really need that solution. And that's very important. I think COVID has pushed a lot of companies into the cloud maybe very quickly. And, that has been something else we've observed in the market. So, solutions and full solutions between ISVs and ISVs, or ISVs and AWS is just becoming more and more common thing that we see. >> And, you mentioned John, in the open source space as well. Like, we're certainly from Amazon to Splunk. So we're talking a lot about those, but there's a lot of other firms involved in projects like OpenTelemetry. And I think it's very endearing, very heartening to see how well they cooperate in this community and how, when their interests are aligned, how effective they can be. And it's been very exciting to work in the space and very pleasant, honestly, to see everything come together with this huge set of customers and partners. >> Yeah. The pleasant surprise of the pandemic has been that people come into the cloud and they like it and they, "Hey, this works," and they double down on it. Then they realize, there's more there and they refactor. So, you're seeing real examples of that. So, this is a great discussion, great success story. Congratulations Morgan, Danielle. >> Thank you. >> Great partnership between Splunk and AWS. We've been following for a long time. And again, this highlights this whole another level of integrating super cloud kind of experience where people are getting more capabilities and doing more together, so great stuff. >> And this is just one facet of that, right? Like, there's all the other connections of Splunk Enterprise, Splunk security analytics products, and others. It's a deep, deep partnership between these firms. >> Yeah. And the companies that innovate and get that new capability are going to have an advantage. And you're seeing... >> Yes. >> Right? >> Agreed. >> And this is awesome, and great stuff, thank you for coming on and sharing that insight. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations Morgan over there at Splunk, great stuff. And Danielle, thanks for coming on and sharing the AWS perspective. >> Thanks for having me. >> And you guys are going to the next level. You moving up to stack as they say, all good stuff for customers. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> This is season one, episode two of the AWS Partner Showcase. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (gentle music)

(upbeat intro jingle) >> 'Kay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with your Matt Morgan, Vice President of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware, CUBE alumni. Matt, great to see you. Can't wait to see you in person, but thanks for coming in remotely for the virtual now hybrid CUBE for re:Invent. >> It's good to see you too, John. Thanks for having us. You know, it's our ninth year covering re:Invented, Remember the first year we went there, it was all developers, right? >> Right. >> And reminds me of the story that you guys have with AWS, you know, VMware Cloud, and VMware with vSphere pioneered operations in IT, you know, vSphere workloads, but now you move that all in the cloud. I remember Ragu when he announced that deal with Pat Gelsinger and Andy Jassy, we covered it extensively. People were like "What are they doing here? This is interesting". Boy- >> Yeah, you- >> The pundits all get it wrong. Their relationship has been blossoming. It's been really powerful, take us through the history here. >> Thanks, John, I mean, you're absolutely right. We have a phenomenal relationship with Amazon Web Services. The value of our partnership has been realized by customers all over the world, in every industry, as they embrace the seamless hybrid cloud experience powered by VMware, vSphere, and of course VM-ware Cloud Stack. Of course, we've recently expanded our operations here, including Japan and the launch of the Soccer Regions. And we're fully open for business with the U.S. Federal Government with VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud. There's strong alignment across the field with new go-to-market teams on both sides and a powerful resell agreement that enables AWS sellers to take VMware Cloud on AWS and all the associated VMware services, such as VMware cloud disaster recovery, NSX vRealize Cloud Management, to their enterprise customers. And we couldn't be doing better. >> Yeah, and you brought up a lot of things there. You mentioned Outpost, mentioned Gov Cloud, you mentioned Marketplace, which means you mentioned the acronym, which is basically, I think it's called EDP Credits, which essentially the enterprise, Amazon's Salesforce working together. So, essentially full business model and technical integrations with Amazon. So, success certainly being demonstrated there. So congratulations, that being said, there's still more to do. We got this whole big wave coming on, you see the edge, you seeing multicloud, you seeing hybrid becoming the operational model, both on premises and in the cloud. And so, customers really are asking themselves "Okay, I got VMware, I got AWS Cloud, I got to secure these clouds now. I got to start putting the business model together on top of the technical architecture". You know, microservices, Kubernetes, Tansu, all the things you guys are doing, but customers want to ask you "What about securing the cloud?", this is the number one question, what's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, it's a great topic, John, at the end of the day, this is about evolving the hybrid cloud. And if you think about it, originally, the hybrid cloud was about unifying both infrastructure and operations between the on-premises world, and the public cloud world. And now what's happening, is we are seeing people embrace that in spades, and as a result of that, their Tier 1 applications are running both on-premises and in the public cloud. And with our new announced local cloud capabilities with VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's leading to this whole new enterprise architecture, which we call the distributed cloud. When you look at deploying enterprise applications in a distributed cloud environment, the conversation starts with consistent networking and importantly security. So, let's talk about that for a moment. Customers are asking us "How do we secure our data when we start having infrastructure in a variety of locations? Are our applications and networks... Are they really secure when they run in these completely different environments? And importantly, when we move an application, we take it from our on-premise data center, we move it to the public cloud are the security policies... Are they moving with it? Do I need to re-architect for that?". And the real question, all of this boils down to "Are we expanding that attack surface when we move to VMware Cloud on AWS?". And so we have to come back to what do we do here to really alleviate these concerns? With data security, it's all about encryption, universal insights. We have the super root capability within our platform to ensure that everything is measured, every message from an application, every data, it's great for Chain Of Custody, Audit. Of course we have backup DR Ransomware. On the application side, of course, segmentation is super important with application centric firewalls, VPNs, tunneling, EDR, IDS, IPS. And of course, none of that matters if you have to reset everything up every time an application moves. And this is a real unique value proposition for us, it's about portability. We deliver portable security. We can move an application, the APIs are standard. You can move it up to the public cloud, your policies, your integrations, even if it's third-party integrations, they're maintained. And that really delivers the ability to say "Look, we can make sure your attack surface is not expanding, it's a controlled environment for you". And that really shrinks the risk factors associated with moving to this distributed cloud environment. >> You know, that's the really, I think the key point, I think that you brought up this infrastructure, kind of, table stakes. Which keeps rising because security's, honestly is now there's no... There's a huge... There's no perimeter. It's huge surface area. Everything has to be secured and locked down. And the big theme at re:Invent this year is data, right? So, you know, data and security all go hand in hand. And so that brings up the aspect of the edge. The edge is now booming, you seeing 5G again, you're here hearing it here at reinvent again, more and more 5G. You mentioned local services, Outpost is evolving. This is kind of the new area, and certainly, attack factor as well. So, you mentioned this whole local services. Take me through that because this becomes interesting because this is an architectural issue for enterprises to figure out, "Okay, I got to distribute a computing architecture, it's called The Cloud and multiple clouds. Now, I've got this edge, whole 'nother opening opens up the case for the architecture conversation". What's the strategy? How do you guys view the case? How do you make the case for local services? >> So, we were super excited to announce VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost. This is a local cloud as a service offering. So, let me break that down a little bit. Of course, compute at the edge is nothing new, but the problem with traditional approaches is typically edge locations may lack IT excellence. Which means there's no one there to manage the service. VMware Cloud on AWS outposts is that local cloud as a service, meaning it's fully managed and at the edge, that's a perfect fit. It's hand in glove for those types of workloads that are out, pushed all the way out, whether it's part of an agricultural deployment or an energy production facility or retail store, where there isn't that typical IT excellence. VMware cloud on AWS outposts enables customers to deploy the same Cloud instance as they're running VMware Cloud on AWS, but be able to do it out at that edge environment. And when you look at the overall value of VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's about delivering a simpler, cost effective, consistent cloud experience for those on-prem environments that matches the operating model of the public cloud. Think of the places that you really want to have cloud infrastructure, where it's critical. Going back to your point on data, getting real time insights on that data, to be able to process that, we call those perishable insights. The value is the immediacy understanding that value specific to the moment it's being captured. Think about the different types of sensor environments, where data's coming off expensive equipment, that's measuring temperature and speed. Understanding that value back to the operator - really, really important. You don't have time to pipe that data up to a cloud process and send the results back down. Edge environments require that real-time stuff. So, together with AWS, we jointly deliver a fully managed service right down to the AWS hardware on which we built the VMware cloud instance. We think about where we're seeing the most interest here. You can look across all kinds of industries and use cases, and we're seeing it specifically in healthcare, out of the hospital, manufacturing for equipment monitoring, government, higher education, where those end points are typically virtualized. There are others, but these are the big ones so far. >> You know, I was just talking to an AMD executive or product marketing person on the gaming side. And they're living this right now because they're putting all the virtual collaboration in the cloud, all the data, because they have so much data and they have so much need for these special instances, whether it's GPUs, and CPUs, a mix and match. So, as instances become more special purposed, that's going to enable them to have more productivity. But then, when you have that baseline in the cloud, the edge also has processing power. So, I think people are starting to see this notion of "Okay, I'm in the cloud, but I can also have that cloud edge without moving data back to the centralized cloud and processing it at the edge with software". >> Yeah, that's true. >> This is real. >> It's super real. And the one that really resonates with customers, is one that we all understand and that's healthcare. Anytime you're in a regional environment where you're at a hospital, think of an ICU, the criticality of that data being processed, providing the insights, this is more mission critical than any other environment, because we're dealing with human lives, think about the complex compute requirements of that environment. And then look at the beauty and elegance of this system, a cloud-based system on premises, doing that compute, providing those insights, giving reality back to the clinician, so they can make those decisions. Healthcare is super, super important. And we see customers across the spectrum, looking at what's happening at the edge and embracing it, whether it's healthcare or other industries. And again, it's a perfect fit for them. >> Yeah, real quick, before we move on to what's new, I'm want to get to that, the Tansu stuff as well. What other industries are popping out? Obviously, manufacturing. What can you talk with some industries and some verticals that are really primed for this local cloud service? >> So, let's talk about manufacturing for a moment. Manufacturing is another facility oriented compute requirement that is perfectly fit, from a system and solution way like VMware cloud on AWS Outposts. Within the manufacturing environment, there's tons of very critical machines. There's inventory management, there's a combination of time management, people management, bringing it all together to ensure that process lines are moving as required, that inventory is provided at the specific moment it's needed, and to make sure that everything, especially in today's supply chain world is provided when is required. This type of capability allows an organization to bring in that sensor data, bring in that inventory data, produce applications that manage that in real time, delivering that compute. And in the manufacturing floor, again, limited IT excellence. So, this provides that capability. Another one is energy production. Think about energy production that's out in the field in North Dakota, or out on an oil rig that might be in the Gulf of Mexico. Not only are you dealing with lack of IT excellence, you're also dealing with limited connectivity. This equipment needs to be monitored and censored and the data from those sensors help drive critical decisions. And with limited connectivity, I mean, you may not even have an LTE signal, the need to do that real time is paramount, local cloud provides that. >> Yeah, and I'd also just add, because we're going to move on, but higher ED is going to be completely transformed. Well, I think that's going to be kind of like a pleat revamp. Let's get into what's new on VMware Cloud on AWS give us the update on the new things that people should know about. That's important that they should review, take us through that, what's new? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the first is the integration with the AWS console. This is a big thing that we're delivering because VMware Cloud on AWS is a native service of AWS. I have to kind of say that twice, it's a native service of AWS. And because of that, we get the same operational and commerce experience for VMware Cloud instances as customers do with traditional AWS services. This means customers now have a choice between AWS centric operating model, which is highly relevant to DevOps and developers, or VMware centric operating model, which is very relevant to traditional operators, and IT users. VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud is expanded to the U.S., East Virginia Region, and achieved aisle five certification. This new region will make the service more relevant for the Eastern Seaboard where much of the Federal Government resides. And of course with aisle five, it opens up VMware Cloud on AWS to the U.S. military and defense contractors, which is huge because there's massive cloud transformation contracts currently in play. And of course, VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud provides the most secure enterprise cloud for those DOD customers, especially when they focus on those critical Tier 1 workloads. >> It's been three years since the GA of the VMware cloud on AWS, has been earlier, since you announced it> You're pumping on all cylinders, as we had predicted, others didn't, just FYI for the folks watching. What's the final vibe? End the segment with your view of what's going on with VMware Cloud on AWS? What's the bumper sticker? >> So, at the end of the day, every customer is looking to migrate and modernize their workloads. And VMWare cloud gives them that capability to do it faster than anyone else. Customers take their applications, tier 1 applications, move it to that secure distributed cloud construct, that idea of having VMware Cloud on AWS, sharing all those security policies, all of that consistent infrastructure and operations. And then they can modernize those applications, using all of those cloud services and the ability to use Tansu to containerize where applicable. We're excited about these capabilities, and our customers are adopting it faster each and every year. And we're thrilled about the traction we're had. And we're thrilled about the partnership we have with Amazon Web Services. So, lots more to come in this space. >> Lot of great stuff, people moving up the stack on the cloud, you're seeing more refactoring in the cloud. Matt Morgan, great to see you. We've been talking 'about this for years on theCUBE. Great to come on and give some insights. All happening. Infrastructure is code. And everyone's winning with containers and microservices. So, great stuff. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks a lot, John, take care. >> Okay, Matt Morgan, the VP of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware. This theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. (upbeat outro jingle)

(upbeat intro jingle) >> 'Kay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, with your Matt Morgan, Vice President of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware, CUBE alumni. Matt, great to see you. Can't wait to see you in person, but thanks for coming in remotely for the virtual now hybrid CUBE for re:Invent. >> It's good to see you too, John. Thanks for having us. You know, it's our ninth year covering re:Invented, Remember the first year we went there, it was all developers, right? >> Right. >> And reminds me of the story that you guys have with AWS, you know, VMware Cloud, and VMware with vSphere pioneered operations in IT, you know, vSphere workloads, but now you move that all in the cloud. I remember Ragu when he announced that deal with Pat Gelsinger and Andy Jassy, we covered it extensively. People were like "What are they doing here? This is interesting". Boy- >> Yeah, you- >> The pundits all get it wrong. Their relationship has been blossoming. It's been really powerful, take us through the history here. >> Thanks, John, I mean, you're absolutely right. We have a phenomenal relationship with Amazon Web Services. The value of our partnership has been realized by customers all over the world, in every industry, as they embrace the seamless hybrid cloud experience powered by VMware, vSphere, and of course VM-ware Cloud Stack. Of course, we've recently expanded our operations here, including Japan and the launch of the Soccer Regions. And we're fully open for business with the U.S. Federal Government with VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud. There's strong alignment across the field with new go-to-market teams on both sides and a powerful resell agreement that enables AWS sellers to take VMware Cloud on AWS and all the associated VMware services, such as VMware cloud disaster recovery, NSX vRealize Cloud Management, to their enterprise customers. And we couldn't be doing better. >> Yeah, and you brought up a lot of things there. You mentioned Outpost, mentioned Gov Cloud, you mentioned Marketplace, which means you mentioned the acronym, which is basically, I think it's called EDP Credits, which essentially the enterprise, Amazon's Salesforce working together. So, essentially full business model and technical integrations with Amazon. So, success certainly being demonstrated there. So congratulations, that being said, there's still more to do. We got this whole big wave coming on, you see the edge, you seeing multicloud, you seeing hybrid becoming the operational model, both on premises and in the cloud. And so, customers really are asking themselves "Okay, I got VMware, I got AWS Cloud, I got to secure these clouds now. I got to start putting the business model together on top of the technical architecture". You know, microservices, Kubernetes, Tansu, all the things you guys are doing, but customers want to ask you "What about securing the cloud?", this is the number one question, what's your reaction to that? >> Yeah, it's a great topic, John, at the end of the day, this is about evolving the hybrid cloud. And if you think about it, originally, the hybrid cloud was about unifying both infrastructure and operations between the on-premises world, and the public cloud world. And now what's happening, is we are seeing people embrace that in spades, and as a result of that, their Tier 1 applications are running both on-premises and in the public cloud. And with our new announced local cloud capabilities with VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's leading to this whole new enterprise architecture, which we call the distributed cloud. When you look at deploying enterprise applications in a distributed cloud environment, the conversation starts with consistent networking and importantly security. So, let's talk about that for a moment. Customers are asking us "How do we secure our data when we start having infrastructure in a variety of locations? Are our applications and networks... Are they really secure when they run in these completely different environments? And importantly, when we move an application, we take it from our on-premise data center, we move it to the public cloud are the security policies... Are they moving with it? Do I need to re-architect for that?". And the real question, all of this boils down to "Are we expanding that attack surface when we move to VMware Cloud on AWS?". And so we have to come back to what do we do here to really alleviate these concerns? With data security, it's all about encryption, universal insights. We have the super root capability within our platform to ensure that everything is measured, every message from an application, every data, it's great for Chain Of Custody, Audit. Of course we have backup DR Ransomware. On the application side, of course, segmentation is super important with application centric firewalls, VPNs, tunneling, EDR, IDS, IPS. And of course, none of that matters if you have to reset everything up every time an application moves. And this is a real unique value proposition for us, it's about portability. We deliver portable security. We can move an application, the APIs are standard. You can move it up to the public cloud, your policies, your integrations, even if it's third-party integrations, they're maintained. And that really delivers the ability to say "Look, we can make sure your attack surface is not expanding, it's a controlled environment for you". And that really shrinks the risk factors associated with moving to this distributed cloud environment. >> You know, that's the really, I think the key point, I think that you brought up this infrastructure, kind of, table stakes. Which keeps rising because security's, honestly is now there's no... There's a huge... There's no perimeter. It's huge surface area. Everything has to be secured and locked down. And the big theme at re:Invent this year is data, right? So, you know, data and security all go hand in hand. And so that brings up the aspect of the edge. The edge is now booming, you seeing 5G again, you're here hearing it here at reinvent again, more and more 5G. You mentioned local services, Outpost is evolving. This is kind of the new area, and certainly, attack factor as well. So, you mentioned this whole local services. Take me through that because this becomes interesting because this is an architectural issue for enterprises to figure out, "Okay, I got to distribute a computing architecture, it's called The Cloud and multiple clouds. Now, I've got this edge, whole 'nother opening opens up the case for the architecture conversation". What's the strategy? How do you guys view the case? How do you make the case for local services? >> So, we were super excited to announce VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost. This is a local cloud as a service offering. So, let me break that down a little bit. Of course, compute at the edge is nothing new, but the problem with traditional approaches is typically edge locations may lack IT excellence. Which means there's no one there to manage the service. VMware Cloud on AWS outposts is that local cloud as a service, meaning it's fully managed and at the edge, that's a perfect fit. It's hand in glove for those types of workloads that are out, pushed all the way out, whether it's part of an agricultural deployment or an energy production facility or retail store, where there isn't that typical IT excellence. VMware cloud on AWS outposts enables customers to deploy the same Cloud instance as they're running VMware Cloud on AWS, but be able to do it out at that edge environment. And when you look at the overall value of VMware Cloud on AWS Outpost, it's about delivering a simpler, cost effective, consistent cloud experience for those on-prem environments that matches the operating model of the public cloud. Think of the places that you really want to have cloud infrastructure, where it's critical. Going back to your point on data, getting real time insights on that data, to be able to process that, we call those perishable insights. The value is the immediacy understanding that value specific to the moment it's being captured. Think about the different types of sensor environments, where data's coming off expensive equipment, that's measuring temperature and speed. Understanding that value back to the operator - really, really important. You don't have time to pipe that data up to a cloud process and send the results back down. Edge environments require that real-time stuff. So, together with AWS, we jointly deliver a fully managed service right down to the AWS hardware on which we built the VMware cloud instance. We think about where we're seeing the most interest here. You can look across all kinds of industries and use cases, and we're seeing it specifically in healthcare, out of the hospital, manufacturing for equipment monitoring, government, higher education, where those end points are typically virtualized. There are others, but these are the big ones so far. >> You know, I was just talking to an AMD executive or product marketing person on the gaming side. And they're living this right now because they're putting all the virtual collaboration in the cloud, all the data, because they have so much data and they have so much need for these special instances, whether it's GPUs, and CPUs, a mix and match. So, as instances become more special purposed, that's going to enable them to have more productivity. But then, when you have that baseline in the cloud, the edge also has processing power. So, I think people are starting to see this notion of "Okay, I'm in the cloud, but I can also have that cloud edge without moving data back to the centralized cloud and processing it at the edge with software". >> Yeah, that's true. >> This is real. >> It's super real. And the one that really resonates with customers, is one that we all understand and that's healthcare. Anytime you're in a regional environment where you're at a hospital, think of an ICU, the criticality of that data being processed, providing the insights, this is more mission critical than any other environment, because we're dealing with human lives, think about the complex compute requirements of that environment. And then look at the beauty and elegance of this system, a cloud-based system on premises, doing that compute, providing those insights, giving reality back to the clinician, so they can make those decisions. Healthcare is super, super important. And we see customers across the spectrum, looking at what's happening at the edge and embracing it, whether it's healthcare or other industries. And again, it's a perfect fit for them. >> Yeah, real quick, before we move on to what's new, I'm want to get to that, the Tansu stuff as well. What other industries are popping out? Obviously, manufacturing. What can you talk with some industries and some verticals that are really primed for this local cloud service? >> So, let's talk about manufacturing for a moment. Manufacturing is another facility oriented compute requirement that is perfectly fit, from a system and solution way like VMware cloud on AWS Outposts. Within the manufacturing environment, there's tons of very critical machines. There's inventory management, there's a combination of time management, people management, bringing it all together to ensure that process lines are moving as required, that inventory is provided at the specific moment it's needed, and to make sure that everything, especially in today's supply chain world is provided when is required. This type of capability allows an organization to bring in that sensor data, bring in that inventory data, produce applications that manage that in real time, delivering that compute. And in the manufacturing floor, again, limited IT excellence. So, this provides that capability. Another one is energy production. Think about energy production that's out in the field in North Dakota, or out on an oil rig that might be in the Gulf of Mexico. Not only are you dealing with lack of IT excellence, you're also dealing with limited connectivity. This equipment needs to be monitored and censored and the data from those sensors help drive critical decisions. And with limited connectivity, I mean, you may not even have an LTE signal, the need to do that real time is paramount, local cloud provides that. >> Yeah, and I'd also just add, because we're going to move on, but higher ED is going to be completely transformed. Well, I think that's going to be kind of like a pleat revamp. Let's get into what's new on VMware Cloud on AWS give us the update on the new things that people should know about. That's important that they should review, take us through that, what's new? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the first is the integration with the AWS console. This is a big thing that we're delivering because VMware Cloud on AWS is a native service of AWS. I have to kind of say that twice, it's a native service of AWS. And because of that, we get the same operational and commerce experience for VMware Cloud instances as customers do with traditional AWS services. This means customers now have a choice between AWS centric operating model, which is highly relevant to DevOps and developers, or VMware centric operating model, which is very relevant to traditional operators, and IT users. VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud is expanded to the U.S., East Virginia Region, and achieved aisle five certification. This new region will make the service more relevant for the Eastern Seaboard where much of the Federal Government resides. And of course with aisle five, it opens up VMware Cloud on AWS to the U.S. military and defense contractors, which is huge because there's massive cloud transformation contracts currently in play. And of course, VMware Cloud on AWS Gov Cloud provides the most secure enterprise cloud for those DOD customers, especially when they focus on those critical Tier 1 workloads. >> It's been three years since the GA of the VMware cloud on AWS, has been earlier, since you announced it> You're pumping on all cylinders, as we had predicted, others didn't, just FYI for the folks watching. What's the final vibe? End the segment with your view of what's going on with VMware Cloud on AWS? What's the bumper sticker? >> So, at the end of the day, every customer is looking to migrate and modernize their workloads. And VMWare cloud gives them that capability to do it faster than anyone else. Customers take their applications, tier 1 applications, move it to that secure distributed cloud construct, that idea of having VMware Cloud on AWS, sharing all those security policies, all of that consistent infrastructure and operations. And then they can modernize those applications, using all of those cloud services and the ability to use Tansu to containerize where applicable. We're excited about these capabilities, and our customers are adopting it faster each and every year. And we're thrilled about the traction we're had. And we're thrilled about the partnership we have with Amazon Web Services. So, lots more to come in this space. >> Lot of great stuff, people moving up the stack on the cloud, you're seeing more refactoring in the cloud. Matt Morgan, great to see you. We've been talking 'about this for years on theCUBE. Great to come on and give some insights. All happening. Infrastructure is code. And everyone's winning with containers and microservices. So, great stuff. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks a lot, John, take care. >> Okay, Matt Morgan, the VP of Cloud Infrastructure Business Group of VMware. This theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent, 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching. 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>>Welcome to the cubes coverage of VMworld 2021. I'm Lisa Martin, two guests joining me next. Matt Morgan is here. Vice-president cloud infrastructure business group at VMware and Steven Jones joins us as well. Director of services at AWS gentlemen. That's great to have you on the program. >>Thank you, Lisa. >>Glad to see everyone's doing well. Here we are virtual. So we are just around the four year anniversary of VMware cloud on AWS. Can't believe it's been 20 17, 4 years. Matt talked to us about VMware AWS partnership and how it's progressed over that time. >>The partnership has been fantastic and it's evolved. We announced VM-ware cloud on AWS general availability all the way back at VMworld, 2017, we've been releasing new features and capabilities every other week with 16 major platform releases and 300 features as customers have requested. So it's been an incredible co-engineering relationship with AWS. We've also expanded our go to market by announcing a resale program in which AWS can resell VMware cloud on AWS. We did that back in 2019 and in 2020, we've announced that AWS is VMware's preferred public cloud partner for vSphere based workloads. And VMware is AWS's preferred service for vSphere based workloads. >>So as you said, Matt, a tremendous amount of evolution and just a short four year timeframe. Stephen talked to me about the partnership through AWS, this lens. >>Yeah. You bet. Look, I agree with Matt that the partnership has been fantastic and it's just amazing to see how fast four years has gone. I really think that AWS and VMware really are a really good example of how two technology companies can work together for them. The benefit of our mutual customers, um, as Matt indicated, VM-ware is our preferred service for vSphere based workloads. And we're broadly working together as a single team across both engineering and go-to-market functions to help customers drive business value from the, the, the investments they made over the years. And then also as they work to transform their businesses into the future with cloud technology, >>Let's talk about digital transformation. That is a term we've been, we've been talking about that for many years on this program. And at every event we've all been at, right. What we've seen in the last year and a half is a massive acceleration. Now talk to me about how VMware and AWS are helping customers facilitate that digital transformation. >>So our customers see modern it infrastructure as the core pillar of a digital transformation strategy and public cloud has been a digital transformation enabler for organizations. And that's because they have so many benefits when they embraced the public cloud, including the ability to elastically consume infrastructure. That's required the ability to employ a pay as you go financial model and the ability to reduce operational overhead, which helps save both monetary costs, but also provides more flexibility. But the big driver now is the ability to embrace innovative cloud services and those services help accelerate application development, deployment and management VMware cloud on AWS is a prime example of such an offering, which not only provides these benefits, but enhances them with operational consistency working the same way their it architecture works today, giving them familiarity and enterprise robustness that VMware technologies are known for, but being able to maximize the power of the global AWS cloud >>And every year from a customer adoption perspective, that's doubling Steven walked through a couple of customer examples that really highlight the value of VMC on AWS. >>Yeah, I've got a couple here. I think, uh, Kiko Milano is a good one. There a then our Italian company, they sell cosmetics and beauty products through about 900 retail stores in 27 different markets. So quite large, but they found that their on premises data center and outsourcing partner was just too inflexible for the changing needs of their company. And within four months, uh, Kiko actually migrated all of their core workloads to Amazon. Is he too, and particularly surprised how easy it was to migrate over 300 servers to the VMware cloud on AWS offering. And this is, this is key because the actually leveraging the same platform that they were used to, which was BMR. Uh, the Kiko team actually didn't have to perform any testing or modify any other existing applications. They also, they didn't have to actually train their teams again, because again, they were already up-skilled with being able to leverage the BMR technology. >>So again, we think it's the best of both worlds customers like Kiko can come and use VMware cloud on AWS, consolidate their server footprint and also take advantage of, of a hyperscale platform. That's pretty cool. Another customer, uh, SAP global ratings that our company provides a high quality market intelligence in the form of credit ratings, research, and thought leadership to help educate market participants to make better financial decisions who doesn't want to make a better financial decision. Right? So in order to accelerate their business growth and globalization really meet new business capabilities, they knew they needed to move a hundred percent to the cloud and wanted to know how they're actually going to do that. Now they also have an aging data center system outages, which are becoming more frequent, which to them actually concerned that they actually might, um, uh, face in the future, some penalties from the sec. >>So they didn't want to do that. So over the period of about eight months, think about this eight months, they moved to 150 financial apps to AWS leveraging VMware on AWS. Uh, pretty impressive. They reduce technical debt, uh, from legacy systems that were hosted on sun Solaris, Oracle excavator, and a X. And then now actually able to meet the goal demands of their business. The fun part here is they're actually meeting their uptime, uh, needs a hundred percent of the time since it actually moves these workloads to the VMware cloud on AWS. So pretty exciting. See customers link this kind of journey, >>Absolutely impressive journeys. Also short time periods to do a massive change there. It sounds like the familiarity with VMware in the console is a huge facilitator of the speed of migration and folks being able to get up and running. Stephen talked to me about some of the trends that you were seeing in organizations like the customers that you just mentioned. >>Yeah. So there are some emergency transfer store and a lot of customers want to leverage the same cloud operating models, but also in their own data centers. So they can take advantage of agility and innovation of cloud will also meeting requirements that they sometimes have that keep them from adopting cloud. Uh, you can think of workloads that sometimes have low latency requirements, right? Or they need to process large volumes of data locally. Uh, other times customers tell us they really need the flexibility to run data workloads, um, in a particular area that has data sovereignty or residency requirements. So when, as we talk about customers, um, they tell us that not only do they want to minimize their, their need to actually manage and operate infrastructure, um, and focus on business innovation is sometimes need to do this, um, in a, in a data center this close to them, if that makes sense. So they're looking for the best again of both worlds. >>Got it. The best of both worlds and Matt, you have some breaking news to share. What is it? >>So today we're announcing the general availability of VMware cloud on AWS outposts. >>Awesome. Congratulations. Tell me about that. Let's dig into it. >>So for customers looking to extend their AWS centric model to an on-premise location, that data center edge location via more cloud on AWS, outposts delivers the agility and innovation of AWS cloud, but on premises and VMware cloud on AWS outpost is based on VMware cloud, a jointly engineered service. So together we're delivering this service on premises as a service. This gives us the capability to integrate VMware's enterprise class architecture and platform with next generation dedicated Amazon nitro based ECE to bare metal instances. It provides a deeply integrated hybrid cloud operating environment that extends from a customer's data center to these particular services running on premises in the data center, the edge, or to the public cloud and having a unified control plane between all of it. >>A unified control plan is absolutely critical. Uh, Stephen eight, >>We have a detailed plan to offer integrated AWS services, and that capability really enhances the innovation angle for customers as they embraced the modernization of their applications. >>Another great example of how deep the partnership is Steven AWS outpost was announced at reinvent, I think 2019, which was the last time I was at an event in person. So coming up on a couple of years here, when GA talked to me about some of the key use cases that you're seeing, where it really excels. >>Yeah. So Matt, Matt highlighted a number of these, right. And you're right. It was 2019. Uh, we were all together back then and hopefully we can do that, uh, very soon here, um, quickly on apple. So overall, since, since we're talking about outposts, uh, VMware cloud on a post as well. So the thing here and Matt highlighted this is that without posts, we actually live we've leveraged, leveraged literally the same hardware and control plane technology that we leverage in our own data centers so that the customers will come to know and love and expect about the AWS platform and VMC on AWS, uh, uh, is, is, is the exact same thing that we'll be able to get with the Apple's technology. I'll give you a couple of customer examples. I think that that actually speaks to the use cases best. So, um, you remember, I talked a little bit about data locality and residency requirements. >>So first ABI Dhabi bank, uh, is the largest bank in the United Arab Emirates, right? And they were offering corporate investment and personal banking service, and they wanted to deliver a digital banking service, including email and mobile payments, but they had to follow a specific residency and data retention requirements and they had to do it in the UAE. And so what they've done is they've actually leveraged multiple AWS outposts in the UAE to allow them to provide business continuity while also leveraging the same API APIs that they had to come to know about, uh, and love about the AWS services in region, right? Phillips healthcare is another really good example. Um, you can imagine that, uh, what they do every day is, is, uh, very important things like predictive analytics for preventative treatments. And so outposts Phillips has actually taken those and that developed cloud applications, again, deployed on the same infrastructure they were used to within region. Now they can actually do this in clinics at hospitals, and they're in managing that the same tools providing, uh, same end-to-end, um, view and to their own providers, 19 administrators. And so they actually estimate they have over 70,000 servers now distributed across 12,000 locations or 1200 locations. Excuse me. So that's an example of, again, just two use cases that really broadened the reach and the flexibility of customers to run workloads in the cloud, but in a on-premise fashion. Does that make sense? >>Yes, it does. And you mentioned two great stories there. One in financial services, the other one healthcare, two industries that have had to massively pivot in the last 18 months amongst many others, but let's talk a little bit more Steven, about some of the things that you're hearing from some of the early customers of BMC on outpost. What are some of the near term opportunities that you're uncovering? >>Yeah, I've got to say here too, that, uh, customers are VMware customers have been asking us for this for quite some time. I'm sure Matt would agree. Um, so look from, uh, go back to some of the use cases we've discussed low latency compute requirements. So one of our higher education customers today who has migrated workloads to be more cloud on AWS, um, is looking at, uh, extending the same capability to an on-premise experience specifically for, um, uh, school applications that require a low latency, um, uh, integration, um, from a local data processing perspective. Again, one of our VMware on AWS top biopharmaceutical companies, uh, here again in the U S um, is planning to use VMware cloud on AWS outposts for health management applications with patient records that need to be retained locally at the hospital hospital sites. And then finally you can kind of going back to the story around data residency. We have a large telco provider in Europe that is planning to use this particular offering for their applications that need to remain on premises to meet regulatory requirements. So again, you know, we're just super pleased with the amount of interest, not only in VMware cloud on AWS, but also in this new run that we're announcing today. And we're really excited to be able to support the VMware cloud experience really on the AWS Apple's platform for a of these use cases. >>One of the things we've talked about for many years with both VMware and AWS is the dedication to listening to the voice of the customer. Not obviously this is a great example, Steven, as you said, VMware customers have been asking for this for awhile. So while customers have a ton of choice, I want you guys to unpack what the differentiators are of this service. And Matt, if we can start with you to bring you back into the conversation, we'd love to get your, your input on those differentiators. >>Yeah, absolutely. So people have to look at this for the service that's delivered and on the VMware side of the equation, we're delivering the full VMware cloud infrastructure capability. This is delivered as a service as a cloud service on premises. So why is this valuable? Well, it relieves the it burden of infrastructure management and fully maximizes the value of a fully managed cloud service, giving an organization, the capability to unlock the renovation, budgets, and start to invest truly an innovation. This is all about continuous life cycle management, ongoing service monitoring, automated processes to ensure the health and security the infrastructure. And of course, this is backed by expert VMware site recovery and reliability engineers, to ensure that everything works perfectly. We also enable organizations to leverage best in class enterprise grade capabilities that we've talked about in our compute storage and networking for best-in-class resiliency auto-scaling and intrinsic availability. >>So there's no long procurement cycles to set up these environments. And that means it's developer ready right out of the box. We're also deeply integrated with what customers do today. So end to end hybrid cloud usually requires end-to-end hybrid processes. And with this integration into those processes is instant, no reconfiguration, no conversion, no refactoring, no rearchitecture of existing applications using VMware HDX or B motion organizations can move applications to leverage this cloud service instantly. It allows you to use established on premises governance, security, and operational policies, and ensures that that workload portability I mentioned goes both ways. It's bi-directional as customers need to have portability to meet their business requirements. As we mentioned earlier, there's a unified hybrid control plane with a single pane of glass to manage resources across the end-to-end hybrid cloud environment. And we're giving direct access to 200 plus native AWS services. And that enables an organization to truly modernize their applications, starting where they are today. And so that gives you the real capability to deliver a unique service. One that gives you an organization, the ability to migrate without any downtime have fast, fast cost effective capabilities and a low risk to their hybrid cloud strategy. >>Excellent. That's a pretty jam packed list of differentiators there, but one of the things that it really sounds like not from what you said is how much work has gone on to make the transition smooth for customers, give them that flexibility and that portability that they need. Those are marketing terms you and I know are used very frequently, but it really seems like the work that you've done here will be done straight to that. I want to ask you Stephen, that same question from AWS's perspective, what really differentiates the solution. >>It is a good question. I'll just, uh, I'll agree that there has been a ton of work first that is, has gone, gone into actually making this happen. Right. Um, and to, to all the points that Matt made. And I would just add that again. 80 was outpost is built on the same AWS nitro system and infrastructure. The customers have already come to love in the cloud. And so gone really are the days where customers have to worry about procuring and racking and stacking their own gear layer on all the benefits, the map outline from a VMware perspective. And again, we, we really believe the customers are getting the best of both worlds here. Um, with, with specifically with the compute that comes in the outpost rack, um, customers actually get getting kind of built in redundancy and resiliency, hard security, all those things that customers don't know, they need certain things. >>The customers know they need to pay attention to, but also want some help with. And so we've, we, we put a lot of thought and effort into this. Um, but could I just, uh, explain a little bit about the customer experience, um, when a customer orders and AWS outposts rack, right? AWS actually signs up, uh, to do a fully managed experience here. Like we'll bring people in to actually do site assessments. Um, we'll manage the hardware, setup, the installation and the maintenance of that gear over time. Well, VM-ware also manages the, the software defined data center construct as well as, um, the, the single point for, uh, for support questions. And so together, we really thought through how customers is met, but it get an end to end experience from hardware all the way up through application modernization. It's pretty exciting, >>Very deep partnership there. And we're out of time, but I do want to ask you guys, where can customers go, who are interested in learning more about this new service? >>So at VM world, there are a collection of DMR cloud, AWS sessions, including sessions, dedicated to VMware cloud on AWS outpost. We encourage everyone who's attending VMworld to look up those sessions and you'll learn all about the hardware, the service, the capabilities, the procurement, and how to get started. In addition, on vmware.com, we have a web portal for you to gain additional knowledge through a digital consumption. That's vmware.com/vmc-outposts. >>Awesome. Matt, thank you. I'm sure folks will be just drinking up all of this information at the sessions at VMworld 2021. And I hope to see you in person at next year's VM. I'm crossing my fingers. Great to see you guys Format Morgan and Steve Jones. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching the cubes coverage of the em world to 2021.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of next level network experience event brought to >>you by info blocks. Okay, welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's coverage of the next level networking experience. Virtual event within four blocks. I'm John Furrow, your host of the Cube. We're here in our Palo Alto, Calif. Studios as part of our remote access during Covic, getting the interviews and the stories and sharing that with you. We got a great guest here, then savages the network operations manager at Morgan School District in Utah. A customer of info blocks to share a story. Then thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for having >>me. First of all, the Red Sox had a plus interview. I would say right now is gonna go great. Go Sox. Which baseball was in season. Great to have you on. Um, >>we'll get there. We'll >>get there. Um, my Yankee fans say when I say that. But anyway, Miss baseball, um, you know. But that brings up covert 19 baseball season sports. Life has been impacted. Your district. Like many school districts around the world, we're told to shut down, send workers home. That meant sending kids home, too. So we got the educators, get the administration, and you've got the kids all going home. >>Yeah. >>What did you do to keep things going? Because then stop. They had to do the remote learning and new things were emerging. New patterns, new traffic, new kinds of experiences. What did you learn? What's going on? >>Well, first we tried to lock the doors and pretend we weren't there, but they found us. Um, really? I mean, real quickly in our school district, we're not a 1 to 1 operation, so the, uh that caused a big change for us. Um, we had to quickly adapt. And we chose to use chromebooks because that's what we have for the students to use in their classes. So getting that, uh, squared away and send out into the family's was was a big challenge. But then on top of that being the school district, we then had to decide. Okay, how do we protect and filter provide the filtering that the students are gonna need even though they're at home? So there's some relative safety there when they're online and and accessing your email and things like that. So those were. Our two are probably our two. Biggest hurdles was, you know, ramping up the devices and then and then providing, making sure, you know, the network access from a filtering and consistency standpoint was going to work. >>You know, I got to ask you because I see this kind of disruption you don't You don't read about this in the i t. Manual around disaster recovery and, you know, disruption to operations. But essentially, the whole thing changes, but you still got to connect to the network, DNS. You gotta get the access to the content. You got content, you get systems. You got security all to be managed while in flight of dealing with connection points that remote. So you've got the disruption and the craziness of that, and then you've got this big I o t experiment basically edge of the network, you know, in all over the place. You know, on one hand, you kind of geek out and say, Wow, this is really kind of a challenge is an opportunity to solve the problem at the same time, you know, What do you do? So take us through that because that's a is a challenge of locking down the security in a borderless environment. People are everywhere. The students business has to get done. You got to resolve to. The resource is >>so thankfully, we had migrated If it blocks several years ago. Um and just this last, I would say in October, I finally got us on. Ah, cloud the blocks. One threat defense Cloud portion of it too. So from a security standpoint, we already had a really good, um foundation in place from both the DNs aspect and the DNS security aspect. Um so that was to be honest, most users. It was seamless transition. In many regards, both users didn't even realize they were being, You know, pushed through the info blocks is cloud DNs server, you know, which was providing security and filtering. So that was a big plus for us because it it was less man hours. We had to spend troubleshooting people's DNS resolutions. Why sites Wouldn't you know? Maybe they weren't being filtered correctly. All that was was to be honest, perfect. Where other platforms we had previously were just a nightmare to manage, >>like, for example, of the old way versus the new way here and marital, is it? What files configuration will take us through? What? You >>know, it was like a separate. It was a separate product content filter that works in conjunction with the firewall. Um, and I'm not going to name the company's name. I don't want, you know, even though many company but it seemed with that product we were spending, on average about 3 to 4 hours a day fixing false positives just from a filtering aspect because it would interfere with the DNS. And it does. It didn't really do it. I mean, how it filters is not based on DNS. Totally right. So by migrating temple blocks are DNS and the filtering the security is all handling at the DNs level. And it was just much more, um, to be I mean, frankly, honestly, is much more invisible to the end user. So >>more efficient. You decouple filtering from DNs resolution. Got it. All right, this is the big topic. I've been talking with info blocks people on this program in this event is on how this new d d I layer DNs d XP and I p address management kind of altogether super important. It's critical infrastructure Yeah. No spoilers, Enterprise. You're borderless institution. Same thing you go to school as a customer. How does the d I lay out this foundational security play for delivering this next level experience? What's your take on that? >>Well, for our like, for a school platform, we we use it in a number of ways. Besides, I mean, the filtering is huge, but just for the ability, like, for example, one of the components is is response policy zones or DNS firewalls what they call it, and that allows you one to manage, um, traditional, like DNS names, right? P addresses you can. You can manage those by creating essentially a zone that is like a white list of blacklist rewrite. So you've got a lot of control, and again it's filtering at the DNs level, so it's looking based on DNS responses inquiry. The other aspect of that is, is the feeds that you receive from info blocks. So by subscribing to those, we, um we have access to a lot of information that info Blocks and their partners have created identifying, you know, bad actors, malware attack vectors based on again DNs, uh, traffic, if you will, and so that takes a load office. Not having to worry. I'm trying to do all that on our own. I mean, we've seen a lot of attacks minimized because of the feeds themselves. So that again frees us up. We're a very small school district. In some regards, there's a I am the only network person in the district, and there's like, a total of four of us that manage, you know, kind of the support aspect. And so, being able to not have to spend time researching or tracking down, you know, breaches and attacks as much because of the DNS. Security frees me up to do other things, you know, like in the more standard networking realm, from a design and implementation. >>Great. Thanks for sharing that. I want to ask about security as a very competitive space security here and everyone promising it different things at different security things. You know, by I gotta ask you, why did you guys decide to use info blocks and what's the reason behind it? >>Well, to be frankly honest, I'm actually in info blocks trainer and I've been training for 15 years, so I kind of had an agenda when I first took this job to help out the school district. In my experience, I've been doing working in networking for over 20 years. And in my experience, I ever boxes one of the most easy and in best managed DNS solutions that I've come across. So, um, you know, I might be a little biased, but I'm okay with that. And so I I pushed us to be honest, to get there and then from the security aspect has all that has evolved. It just makes to me it makes sense. Why not wrap the more things you can maybe wrapped together. And so you know, when you're talking about attacks, over 90% of attacks use DNS. So if I have a solution that is already providing my DNS and then wraps the security into it, it just makes the most sense for me. >>Yeah. I mean, go back. The info box is DNA. You got cricket. Liu Stuart Bailey, the founder, was this is zero. This didn't just wake up one day and decided to start up these air practitioners early days of the Internet. They know DNS cold and DNS is we've been evolved. I mean, and when it needs that when you get into the DNS. Hacks and then you realize Okay, let's build an abstraction layer. You've seen Internet navigation discovery, all the stuff that's been proven. It is a critical infrastructure. >>Well, and to be honest, it's It's one of those services that you can't can't filter the firewall right. You have to have it. You have to. It's that foundation layer. And so it makes sense that Attackers air leveraging it because the fire will has to let it through in and out. And so it's a natural, almost a natural path for them to break in. So having something that speaks native DNS as part of your security platform makes more sense because it it can understand and see those attacks, the more sophisticated they become as well. >>So I gotta ask you, since you're very familiar info blocks and you're actually deploying its great solution. But I got this new DD I Layer, which is an abstraction, is always a great evolution. Take away complexity and more functionality. Cloud certainly cloud natives everywhere. That's but if it's for what is the update, if if I'm watching this month, you know I've been running DNS and I know it's out there. It's been running everything. And I got a update, my foundation of my business. I got to make my DNS rock solid. What's the new update? What's info blocks doing now? I know they got DNS chops seeing that on it. What's new about info blocks? What do you say? >>Well, it's, you know, they have a couple things that they've been trying to modify over the last several years. In my opinion, making more DNS like a you know, like software as a service, you know, service on demand, type of approach. That's a yes. So you have the cloud components to where you can take a lot of the heavy lifting, maybe off of your network team's shoulders. Because it is, it is. Um, I think people will be surprised how many customers out there. I have, ah, teams that are managing the DNS and even the D HCP aspect that that's not really what their experiences and then they don't They don't have, ah, true, maybe background Indians, and so having something that can help make that easier. It's almost, you know, hey, maybe used this term it almost sounds like it's too simple, but it's almost like a plug and play approached for some. For some environments, you know you're able to pop that in, and a lot of probably the problems they've been dealing with and not realizing what the root cause was will be fixed. So that's always a huge component with with info blocks. But their security is really what's come about in the last several years, Um, and and back as a school district, you know, our besides securing traffic, which every customer has to do, um, we have our you know, we're We have a lot of laws and regulations around filtering with with students and teachers. So anyone that's using a campus own device And so for us this I don't think people realized that the maturity that the filtering aspect of the blocks one defence now it's it's really evolved over the last couple of years. It's become a really, really good product and, like I said earlier, just work seamlessly with the data security. So it is going to be using >>an SD Wan unpacked everything. You go regular root level DNs is it? So I gotta ask you. How is the info blocks helping you keep network services running in system secure? >>Well, I think I think we're more on just the DNs d It does R d eight DNS and DCP. So from that standpoint, you know, in the five years almost we've been running that aspect. We have had very little if if maybe one or two incidents of problems with, you know from a DNS TCP so so are our users are able to connect, you know, when they turn on their computer To them, the Internet's up. You know, there's no there's no bumps in the road stopping them from from being able to connect. So that's a huge thing. You know, you don't have to deal with those Those constant issues again is a small team that just takes time away from the big projects. You're trying to, um, and then to the being able to now combine things. Security filtering solution. Uh, that alone has probably saved us. Oh, we'll probably you know, upwards of 500 man hours in the last eight months. So where normally we would be spending those hours again, troubleshooting issues that false positives, things like that. And there's a small team that just sucks the life out of you when you have to. You always spend time on that. >>I mean, you always chasing your tails. Almost. You want to be productive. Automation plays >>a >>key role in that, >>right? Yeah. >>So I got to ask you, you know, just a general question. I'm curious. You know, one of the things I see is sprawling of devices. WiFi was a great example that put an access point up a rogue access point, you know, as you get more connections. De HCP was amazing about this is awesome. But also, you had also de HCP problem. You got the the key Management is not just around slinging more d HDP around. So you got the trend? Is more connections on the eyepiece? Not how does info blocks make that easier? Because for people who may not know, the DNS ends announcing TCP and IP address management. They're all kind of tied together. Right? So this >>is the >>magic of DD I in my head. I want to get your thoughts on how you see that. Evolving. >>Yeah, I think that's another kind of back twice. It's kind of almost like a plug and play for a lot of customer environments. They're getting, you know, you're getting the DSP, DNs and eye Pam all wrapped in once you have this product that speaks, well, those languages, if you will and that And, um along with some of the reporting services and things of that nature. Um, when I look for, like, a Mac address in my influx database, I'm not just going to get ah, Mac address and what the i p addresses. I'm not just going to get the DNs like the host name. Maybe you know, the beauty and fully qualified domain name. Either I have the ability to bring in all this information that one. The client is communicating with the DCP DNS server on top of things like metadata that you can configure in the database to help really color in the picture of your network. So when you're looking at what device is using this I p when we talk about rogue devices or things like that, uh, I can get so much more information out of info blocks that almost almost to the point where you're almost being able to nail down the location of where the devices that even if it's a wireless client because it works in conjunction with some of our wireless appointments, too. So within, you know, a matter of minutes we have almost all the information we would need to take whatever action is appropriate for something like that, that getting used to take us hours and hours to troubleshoot. >>Appreciate a lot of the other interviews I've done with the info blocks, folks. One of the things that came out of them is the trailing. You can see the trail they're getting. They got to get in somewhere. DNS is the footprints of there you got? That's the traffic, and that's been helping on a potential attacks in D DOS is, for example, no one knows what that is, but DNS is what he said. A lot of the surface areas, DNS. With the hackers are makes it easier to find things. >>Well, you know, by integrating with the cloud I've I've got, you know, that the cloud based with the blocks one, it added a advanced DNS security, which helps protect skins Adidas as well as any cast to help provide more availability because I'm pushing on my DNs traffic through those cloud servers. It's like I've I'm almost equivalent of a very large organization that would normally spend millions of millions of dollars trying to do this on their own. So I'm getting the benefits and kind of the equivalent from that cloud hybrid approach that normally we would never have have. The resource is, >>Well, then I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to remote into the Cube studios. Talk about next level networking experience, so I want to just ask you, just put your experience hat on. You've been You've seen some waves. You've seen the technology evolve when you hear next level networking and when you hear next level networking experience almost two separate meetings. But next level networking means next level. Next level networking experience means is some experience behind it. One of those two phrases mean to you next level networking and next level networking experience. >>Well, to me, I always look at it as the evolution of being able to have a user experience that's consistent no matter where you're located, with your home in your office and special with in today's environment. We have to be able to provide that consistent experience. But what I think what a lot of people may not think about or my overlook if you're just, you know, more of an end user is along with that experience, it has to be a consistent excess security approach. So if I'm an end user, um, I should be able to have the access the, um and the security, which, you know, you know, filtering all that fun stuff to not just allow me the connectivity, but to bring me, you know, that to keep the secure wherever I met. And ah, um, I think schools, you know, obviously with code and in the one the one that everyone was forced to do. But I think businesses And generally I think that's, you know, years ago, Cisco when I worked with Cisco, we talked about, you know, the remote user of the mobile user and how Cisco is kind of leading, uh, the way on that. And I think, you know, with the nature of things like this pandemic, I think being able to have your your users again have that consistent experience, no matter where they're at is going to be key. And so that's how I see when I think of the network evolution, I think that's how it it has to go. >>Well, we appreciate your your time sharing your insights Has a lot of a lot of people are learning that you've got to pour the concrete to build the building. DNS becoming kind of critical infrastructure. But final question for you. I got you here, you know? How you doing? Actually, schools looks like they're gonna have some either fully virtual for the next semester or some sort of time or set schedule. There's all kinds of different approaches. This is the end of the day. It's still is this big i o t experiment from a traffic standpoint. So new expectations create new solutions. What do you see on the horizon? What challenges do you see as you ride this way? Because you've got a hold down the fort, their school district for 3000 students. And you got the administration and the faculty. So you know What are you expecting? And what do you hope to see Evolve Or what do you want to stay away from? What's your opinion? >>I think? I think my my biggest concern is, you know, making sure our like, our students and staff don't, uh, you know, run into trouble on by say that more from, you know, you know, by being, you know, being exposed to attacks, you know, their data with Delta becomes, you know, comes back to our data as a district. But, you know, the student data, I think I think, you know, with anything kids are very vulnerable. Ah, very role, vulnerable targets for many reasons. You know, they're quick to use technology that quick to use, like social media, things like that. But they're they're probably the first ones to do security Does not, you know, across their mind. So I think my big my big concern is as we're moving this, you know, hybrid, hybrid approach where kids can be in school where they're going to be at home. Maybe they'll change from the days of the week. It'll fluctuate, uh, keeping them secure, you know, protecting them from themselves. Maybe in a way, if I have to be the guy is kind of the grumpy old dad it looked at. I'm okay with wearing that hat. I think that's my biggest. Our concern is providing that type of, uh, stability and security. So parents at the end of that could be, you know, I have more peace of mind that their kids you know, our online even more. It's great >>that you can bring that experience because, you know, new new environments, like whether it zooming or using, try and get the different software tools that are out there that were built for on premise premises. You have now potentially a click here. Click there. They could be a target. So, you know, being safe and getting the job done to make sure they have up time. So the remote access it again. If you've got a new edge now, right? So the edge of the network is the home. Exactly. Yeah. Your service area just got bigger. >>Yeah. Yeah, we're in. You know, I'm everybody's guest, whether they like it or not. >>I appreciate that. Appreciate your time and good luck. And let's stay in touch. Thanks for your time. >>Hey, thanks for having me. You guys have a good rest of your weekend? Day two. State State. >>Thank you very much. It's the Cube's coverage with info blocks for a special next level networking experience. Pop up event. I'm John for the Cube. Your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Voiceover: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and welcome to this announcement with VMware cloud on AWS update. Happy to welcome back to the program, Matt Morgan. He is the Vice President of global marketing with VMware cloud services. And welcome into the program Fred Wurden, he's the general manager of EC2 enterprise at Amazon Web Services. Thank you so much both for joining us. >> Good to see you Stu. >> Same, thanks Stu. >> Matt, and Fred, the VMware AWS partnership is one that has gotten a lot of attention. I know any time back in the day when we used to go to physical trade shows, I could know when there was a session talking about this because it was usually full and overflowing. When I've written about this topic or doing videos about it it definitely gets quite a lot of attention. So it's been over three years since the partnership was announced but still, when I talk to people, they don't necessarily really understand the depth of the integration and the work that gets done on both sides even though you get clear messages from both Andy Jassy and Pat Gelsinger about how important this is. Matt, maybe start with you and Fred would love your commentary as to this three year partnership and where we are today here in 2020. >> Absolutely, since the initial announcement of the VMware AWS relationships, we have actually built a very special cloud service. And today, we're actually deepening our partnership. In fact, today, VMware goes to market saying that AWS and only AWS is our preferred public cloud partner for all vSphere based workloads. VMware cloud on AWS is a jointly engineered service. Meaning, our product teams our r&d teams are all working together to deliver VMware enterprise class Software Defined data center solution to the AWS cloud. VMware Cloud foundation is the core technology that's behind our service. And it gives us the capability to deliver that same level of infrastructure familiarity and consistency that our customers use today, across every data center location, the edge and of course inside the public cloud. VMware cloud on AWS attracts an enormous amount of interest from customers. And these customers are in every vertical, whether you're speaking of healthcare, media and entertainment, transportation, financial services, manufacturing, energy, government, education, professional services, and of course technology. And together with AWS, we're bringing together services that are being used across the whole portfolio of cloud optionality. This includes cloud migration from whether you're talking about a single app or complete data center, disaster recovery, whether you're talking about replacing a legacy system or building new disaster recovery in the cloud. Data center extension building that hybrid cloud. And of course, modernizing applications which we classify under the term application modernization. >> Great, and Fred from the Amazon side. >> Yeah, the partnership is been fantastic over three years. And I can't express enough how hard it is to actually deliver a simple solution that customers are asking for from all levels of both organizations. And to do that it takes both AWS and VMware to deliver a solution that allows companies to leverage what they know today and extend that into the cloud. And leverage all of the benefits that we're going to go over and a rapid delivery of new features which they haven't had before ever. So it's fantastic a partnership. I love what we've been doing at all levels. And I say it's going to continue. The scale at which we're growing is fantastic. And with that, I'm happy to go over some of the announcements and why we're doing what we're doing which is all based on listening and what our customers want. >> Excellent. Well, Fred, hey, we're glad first of all, that it did not get called VMC on AWS SS. Because we have enough acronyms already in tech. Matt, VMware and AWS, of course, clear leadership in the marketplace. With three years, bring us inside as to you talked about all the verticals that were used, but where's the proof on the adoption of this technology? Love to hear a little bit about that. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we have customer examples across the verticals we spoke of, but it's the customer stories that are the real value demonstrator. Let's pick up a couple of those. IHS market, they were able to move 1000 plus workloads to the public cloud. And that story is kind of common in the world. But what's unique about this particular story is IHS market moved them in just six weeks. If you look at the cloud migration strategy in general, for someone to move that fast with that many workloads, it's unheard of. VMware empowers that because the operating setup that organizations have standardized in their data center is identical in the public cloud. So organizations can move workloads we see them move hundreds of workloads in a week from their data center up to the public cloud. In addition to that, we have customer examples like the Pennsylvania Lumberman's Mutual Insurance Company. They were able to demonstrate 20% cost savings by moving their disaster recovery systems to VMware cloud on AWS. And that was initial savings right off the rip. Other customers like William Hill, George St. PA, Stage Coast, PHS Mortgage, they're all demonstrating the significant value adds when people move over to the public cloud, but leverage that VMware cloud solution. >> And Fred obviously, AWS also plays across these environments. We would like to hear your side too. >> Yeah, a couple examples like S&P global ratings, they spin up a new application environment in a few hours instead of months. Let alone taking all the burden off of their supply chain and management of that. Like Matt said in terms of seeing cost savings. So agility and speed allows them to really focus on their applications and start to modernize and innovate in areas that really differentiate them. They've had 100% uptime for regulatory applications and a 50% improved disaster recovery time. Other customers have built out a disaster recovery plan and then actually spun to VMware cloud on AWS as their primary because they had better performance. So it's the whole range of options in terms of better performance, better TCL and economics and mostly agility on what they can do going forward with applications that may already be built on AWS as well with native services. >> Matt, you touched on some great customer examples, maybe maybe give us some, broad themes as to what are the key drivers as to why customers are adopting VMware cloud on AWS? >> Yeah, absolutely. As with any infrastructure conversation, total cost of ownership is a big piece of the equation. Organizations want to look at their footprint today. They want to look at their footprint next year, and then of course, many years out. So when you look at the public cloud, cloud economics are a big driver. VMware, of course adopts the whole concept of cloud economics whole full horse. Meaning that we give you the capability to recognize the advantages of an apex object model, the ability to have on demand services, the ability to have a managed IaaS, all of that is part and parcel to our service. But on top of that, there's unique capabilities that VMware cloud on AWS delivers that deliver unique economic value. The first is this concept of zero refactoring. Our customers tell us that this alone allows them to eliminate what they call is rework, sometimes called the rework tax. Which prevents organizations from moving applications to the cloud without reworking them, without working their data layer, re architecting how they run, they can move them because the operating layer is consistent. Another area of value that's unique to VMware cloud on AWS is the leverage of existing skill sets. Today's operators are trained on vCenter. They're trained on all the supporting infrastructure around VMware. All of that applies with VMware cloud on AWS. So the ability to translate those skills into a cloud skill set right off the bat is of enormous value. Of course flexibilities another big one, as organizations embrace what it being seen as composite applications, which are applications that span the data center, the public cloud out to the edge. The ability to move logic as needed to be able to have portability is something we deliver. Again, that's an economic value that we are able to provide. Now this has been quantified by third parties. There's been several major third parties, including Forrester, including IDC, that have published value added statements around the total economic impact of VMware cloud on AWS. In fact, just last year, there was a study that was commissioned by Forrester that demonstrated a 59% reoccurring savings in terms of infrastructure and operating savings, compared to an on premise implementation. When you look at migration that accelerates to 69% 'cause organizations can save almost 70% of moving applications by eliminating rework and refactoring. That's an IDC statistic. >> All right Matt. Maybe it would make sense to talk about just overall adoption of the solution. I believe you've got some stats you can share. >> So yeah, if you look at the adoption, we have delivered enormous growth over the last year of the service. Total number of hosts year over year are up 2.5x. Total number of running VMs year over year is actually larger at 3.5x. Which indicates that customers are not just adopting, but they're accelerating their adoption. We now have 21,000 plus number of hands on labs that have been consumed since July of 2019, a year ago. And there are now 300 plus validated technology partner solutions available. And on top of that, 530 channel partners with VMware cloud service competency are now registered and available to assist. These are tremendous statistics for 12 short months. >> Well, congratulations on to both VMware and AWS on that progress. Maybe talk a little bit about trends. Just briefly, if I look over the last three months we've talked about AWS and VMware customers. Obviously, with the global pandemic, there's been certain things that they've needed to rapidly do things like, VDI, end user computing, remote contact centers are something that they need to rapidly expand on. But, is there anything different or general trends that that you would both like to share? Matt, we'll once again, start with you and then Fred get your take on it. >> Yeah, there's a regional school district in the US that in light of COVID, needed to spin up 10,000 plus people working remotely. And by leveraging VMware cloud on AWS, they were able to conduct virtual classrooms in very short order by leveraging this broad scale infrastructure powered by VMware cloud on AWS. Over time, that provided flexibility and agility, but it also reduced their costs. They've been able to eliminate hardware replacement plans that were going to cost significant amount of money. In fact, they're showing and telling us that they're able to save 75% of those forecasted costs. But everything is really about business continuity today. Today's unfortunate economic environment where we're working through this pandemic, this global pandemic, IT organizations and businesses, they're embracing a tried and true understanding of what it means to move to the cloud. But they're embracing it in a more aggressive way because the supply chain has been disrupted. If you think about a traditional supply chain, where organizations have to receive machines, set up those machines, have them wired in have certain people on site to get those machines configured, move application. That's a lot of steps in the process, many of which have been totally disrupted during the pandemic. The idea of VMware cloud on AWS is that you replace an analog supply chain with a digital supply chain. We can now help organizations get new equipment, new capacity, new resources up and running instantly. They don't have to worry about all the steps that were previously required that have been disrupted in a pandemic. The cloud provides that operating environment that maps one for one to the realities of today's world. And they're also able to understand that looking forward, that that setup enables them to be more future ready. Ready for whatever comes next to deliver what the business needs. >> Yeah, there's a number of reasons that you just touched on Matt, that are examples that we can bring out on that elasticity. For example, Penny Mac, anytime there are changes in the market, for example, on either both for VDI or just on processing of loans. When the pandemic hit, a lot of people actually paused on both looking and or changing their patterns. And this solution has been fantastic for either scaling up or scaling down both ways. And they can do it very quickly. They can do it within a number of a variety of means whether it's a single VM, or it's moving an entire migration into VMware cloud on AWS. So great results there. The case studies speak for themselves. There's a lot of examples that we have up on both of our sites. We'd really be good to take a look at those in detail if you're interested, it's fun to see. Helps a lot of people out. >> If I could follow up with you on something here. I want to talk about I go to the cloud, often that movement is step one, how do I take advantage of modernization, whether that be for my application standpoint, or leveraging new services? I wonder you can give me the AWS side there? And, Matt would love to hear how VMware is helping customers along this journey too. >> Well, the first is we want to meet people they're at with their knowledge set and their skill set. And this is a fantastic part. Customers can move quickly with the domain knowledge that they've go. We can assist in translating and making sure that the environment and the STDC is set up in a way that is tailored to what their needs are. Whether it's an extension, or if it's a complete migration of step one. But step two really is once they're leveraging VMware cloud on AWS is they have a lot of needs in terms of their CICD, their development tools, or samples and applications around automation. And we can take and help them with that. That content is already posted on our developer tool site and our developer center for this solution. It really assists them in learning about how to leverage the elasticity and the security and the networking capabilities that allow them to go in and then use all the rest of the rich AWS services as well. So, if you look at some of the things that are coming out for example, VMware Transit Connect. Which allows, a layer three solution to be built on top of our AWS transit gateway so that we can interconnect multiple VPCs in an environment that may be running either software as a solution on AWS or a native application that was built with managed services, completely in sync and in harmony, with VMware cloud on AWS. So that's what's happening at a rapid pace. It allows people to bite off the chunks that they want to modernize and reuse tools that are either familiar with them, and or automation improvements that we've got between code tools across the board. So it's great to see the work that they're doing >> Great, and Matt on the modernization piece. >> Yeah, so our surveys tell us that customers want to modernize their existing applications. But those same customers don't want to start over. So this is an important value proposition that we deliver in partnership with AWS. Organizations can take a business process application, they can migrate it to the cloud, they can extend and reach that application with AWS services. They can extend and reach that applications with additional machine learning capabilities, they can extend it with containerized extensions. They can support a broader modern agenda without having to start over. And I think that that is a value proposition that resonates with everyone, because people often need must leverage what they already have built with what the baseline is for the business itself. In addition to this, composite applications are now becoming the norm. With data and processing being more CO located, end to end Applications often consist of processing and data for certain tasks to be either pushed out to the edge or remain on premises in the data center in addition to the cloud. That value proposition of VMware delivering a hybrid cloud with consistent infrastructure and operations enables those composite applications to be built and deployed in a highly efficient way, which is a big piece to the modernization story. In addition to this with tons of Kubernetes grid as a customer managed option, organizations can run those containerized components right on top of our service, all of which integrates very cleanly with a whole library of services that AWS offers. End to end, you have all the optionality you need plus the speed of migration and capabilities once you get up to the public cloud. >> All right, let's get into the new pieces of the partnership here. Matt, first of all, when I think about VMware cloud on AWS, the customers that I've mostly spoken to over the last couple of years have tended to be some of the larger enterprises. I've heard you're alluding towards some capabilities to the small and medium business. I know I'm looking forward to talking to PLM insurance, one of the companies that are leveraging this solution as part of this announcement. What's new and the impact that this will have on the addressable market that VMware cloud can hit for AWS? >> Yeah, so with this announcement, VMware cloud on AWS, we're extending it to offer three new capabilities. Three new announcements of capabilities. The first one is all about what you just spoke of. Which is about extending the VMware cloud on AWS value proposition to more customers. So currently, customers can spin up production clusters with three hosts are, of course much more than that. But three hosts was kind of the entry level for a production cluster. What we're announcing is the ability to create production clusters with all the capable abilities that go into what we define as a production cluster with just two hosts. That means customers will be able to deploy production environments with two hosts in a cluster, dramatically reducing their costs. In fact, the traditional costs will come down by 33%. So this is all about providing the full capabilities of VMware cloud on AWS, but to be able to do it at a smaller investment envelope. So in addition to this, we're rolling out enhancements to VMware cloud director offering it as a service. VMware cloud director now will deliver multi tenancy to VMware cloud on AWS specifically designed for MSPs. As you know VMware partner ecosystem is filled with managed service providers. We have a mean enormous collection of these that add value on top of VMware cloud on AWS. Here by using VMware vcloud director service, they can deliver multi tenancy to their customers. And this is designed specifically to serve the needs of small to medium sized enterprises. These capabilities enable MSPs to serve those needs and it will be available initially in North America. And this will give them the opportunity to say, hey, if you want to get started on VMware cloud on AWS, we can give you bite sized pools designed specifically for what you need. And this is a very asset light pay as you grow model, which aligns specifically to that market. >> It's fascinating to watch Matt, I think, not that many years ago, if I had attended VMworld and talked to the MSPs. And they talk how deeply they appreciate the VMware partnership and that cloud company was the enemy. And, today AWS and VMware partnering with them, helping to make sure that in this hybrid world that they play a role to help get to the enterprise. Fred, anytime we go to reinvent, new announcements usually come to a huge fanfare, even something like a new bare metal instance. Last year it was the I3en metal instance. People get pretty excited. Help us understand you know what this really means, what advantages it has? Are there any limitations? What should we know about the capabilities AWS has now available to the VMware cloud? >> Well, first off, thanks Stu, I3en is really exciting that we're launching. It will meet the need of storage intensive workloads. And it'll do it far better than what we've had before. It takes advantage of all the learnings and the investments that we put into instances across the board for AWS such as Nitro. If you have, high random IO access, such as needed for relational database or workloads that have additional security that we have baked in, it's going to meet those needs. Compared to I3 metal, it has more memory, more usable, high performance storage and additional security. The example of a yield compared to I3 is about a 22% performance improvement and value. We're delivering four times the raw storage for about 2.2 times the cost. So in essence, you're getting raw storage at half the cost of an I3. So customers are excited. it's one of many instances that we will launch in the future for VMware cloud on AWS. And that's one of the advantages, is people can instantly take advantage of these innovations that we have. Just like we've done across all of the other instance families to meet workloads that customers are talking to us about that they want to run on this platform. >> Excellent, well, we really look forward. I know we're going to have a deep dive with Colbert to go into a little bit under the hood. And as I mentioned, got one of your joint customers PLM Insurance to understand their use case and how they're doing it. Matt and Fred, if you could just give us final takeaway, VMware cloud on AWS, Matt, and then Fred. >> Well, first off, thank you Stu for this opportunity to speak. I always enjoy spending time with you and certainly with Fred. We're just super excited and thrilled about our partnership. VMware couldn't be happier with our partnership with AWS from engineering to marketing, customer experience. Our teams are working together hand in glove to ensure success for our customers. VMware cloud on AWS is a truly unique service. Customers can continue business operations with minimal disruption in case of any uncertain event, they can migrate their workloads fast in a very cost effective manner with minimal risk. And we're really all about helping large enterprises as well as small and medium businesses accelerate their cloud migration and modernization journey. In fact, if you look across the board, we have seen enormous uptake. And now with these new offerings that we talked about, especially the two hosts production cluster, and VMware cloud Director service, we believe we're going to be more attractive to more organizations of various sizes. We're excited about the road ahead. >> And Fred. >> Customers are excited about this road, I would add. One, thank you guys for having us on. It's great to tell this story. The feedback has been phenomenal . The growth in the adoption and what we're seeing in terms of the use cases across the board is much stronger than we could have imagined. So it's really great to see this work that is hard to do to really merge the best of VMware and the best of AWS in a true deep partnership. And that takes work at all layers, whether it's a commerce system integration, or if it's the instance engineering and roadmap work across the board or networking. And customer support across the board for solutions that run on this platform. Both of us are joined to make sure customers are satisfied regardless of what it takes. That's something that no one else has. And it is unique. And it's a long term commitment that we have with each other to do the right thing for the solution. 'Cause we can't do it individually. This is something that truly only a joint partnership as strong as this is, and has gotten stronger can deliver. So we're super excited about it. I think you're going to continue to see the pace of innovation on what we're delivering increase. And so, with that, it's been great to work with VMware on this. It's really fun. >> Well, thank you, Fred. Thank you, Matt. Yeah, congratulation to your team. And of course, love hearing the customer stories and feedback. >> Thank you Stu. >> All right. Be sure to check out the other interviews as part of this announcement and check out theCUBE.net of course, we're covering VMware and AWS deeply including their shows whether they are in person or virtual. I'm Stu Miniman and thank you for watching theCUBE.

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We have a cube conversation today talking about an exciting announcement coming out of our friends over it at V M, where it's the second generation via VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. And to tell us more about it, we've got a couple Cube alumni that we're always happy to have on. First off, we're joined by Matt Morgan. He is the VP of marketing at VMware. Matt, Great to see you. Great CTO. And then Wei Wang, She's the product or director of product marketing of the VMware way. Great to see you as well. >>Nice to see you, Jeff. >>So, first off, hope you guys were getting through. Ah, the stay at home and work from home and family. Everything good >>thes air. Unprecedented times for sure, But we're fortunate and we're doing fine. I hope everything is going well with you and your family. >>Yeah, Thank you. I mean, we are lucky to be an IT space. So we can We can flip the digital much easier than some industries. Let's jump into this announcement. Second generation via VMware Cloud on Dell, EMC. You guys only announced this in production like a year ago. So, Matt, what? What kind of drove a second generation already know What were some of the drivers and what what is the essence of the second generation? >>Yeah, the space is moving really fast. As you know, Public Cloud has captured the imagination of practically every IT organization on the planet. Because the public cloud provides a new way of doing business. It allows you to consume technology on demand, allows you to have the elasticity, allows you to have op ex financial treatment. But more importantly, it takes you out of the core management business. No more hardware refreshes. No more operational control of the core infrastructure. This is all delivered as a service. The problem is, in order to get this value, you have to turn to the public cloud. You have to actually replace your workload in the data center that someone else managed, and that data center might be far away from the data that is being generated. And so in many cases, It's just simply not practical to move all of your workloads there. So on premise, technology is still going to be important. What VMware announced way back in 2000 and 18 I think it was August 2018 at VM World is Project Dimension, and the whole concept was about delivering the cloud to the data center but truly allowing you to run your data center or data center infrastructure in a truly manage, cloud centric way. We then commercialized it when we announced via VMware Cloud on Dell, EMC, the product and the uptake has been off the hook. We've seen industry analysts like you saw with Rick. We've seen our customers really embrace this technology, and we've got an enormous feedback and that feedback is also driven a new set of requirements. And the truth is, while we envisioned this technology to clearly be an edge play, our customers are telling us it's a data center play. They believe that they can reimagine their data center to operate just like a cloud, and by deploying via VMware cloud on Dell EMC. This facilitates their needs to do that, but they needed a new class of system something a lot more powerful than our first generation, something that could take on all of the workloads. In fact, there's a slide. If you want to pull it up, we kind of illustrate this. The second generation solution is all about turning the volume up to 11. We are enabling organizations to put two times as many VMS on this technology. They, in effect, can run twice as many workloads. More importantly, for a nightie architect, they can design a system that will take on the most demanding, most complex business critical applications with largest set of data and be able to manage that as a entity but in a cloud model on premises. >>Now, Matt I'm struck a little bit because, you know, first if you talk about edge and this was really, you know, kind of a response to growth of the edge and the anticipated growth of edge and I ot and then at the now you're saying really, you know, there's this great opportunity in the data center, and I think we had Rick on from IDC, talked about local cloud as a service, so that's spanning a pretty wide range of environments, workloads, all types of demand. So what are the real critical, you know, kind of functional capabilities of a local cloud as a service and specifically with VMware Cloud. >>So we partnered with Rick when he was defining this category. And if you look at what Rick's research, he sees this category growing. I think too close to $5 billion all in revenue, that all in revenue is coming in the next 2.5 years. That's a faster scale out than we saw HCI. And in his research he's finding the same information that we found when we did our early customer surveys. We have identified a real need at the edge, but let's not underplay that. If you look at a 5G cell tower, typically they need compute that's local. They're gonna be tons of these erected over the next few years, and they don't have on-premise IT infrastructure people to manage that technology, so there's an opportunity to have a managed approach where the compute is local, but it's managed as a cloud. Clearly, the solution is custom designed for that, but I can look at a dozen other IoT centric opportunity. Let's talk about energy production. An offshore oil rig. Again, no IT Staff. The need for compute lots of sensor data, the opportunity to deliver a managed approach gives you that capacity. Let's look at agriculture again, pushing out compute to the edge. So this edge component is another hyper growth area or information technology, and we have a great solution. Custom built for that. However, as I had mentioned right, the growth of use cases includes the most important, the most significant business critical apps that are really big gaps that live in the data center. This can include a variety of different use cases. Think about a hospital. They have data centers in each of the regions. That's all perfect fit for this. Talk about a technology base for virtualized desktop infrastructure. Think about having to deploy an SAP application. There's a dozen more I can think of right off the top of my head. But what we did with the second generations we listen >>to the customer. >>The customers wanted more power. They wanted more capacity. They wanted the opportunity to have a full rack that could beat their expectations on the capacity and power side so that they can fulfill their requirements, and that's what this >>is all about. >>So that's great, Matt way, you're You're a little bit more in the weeds in the product development. What are some of the things that you're excited about in this second gen offering that maybe people aren't as aware of or maybe is a little bit below the radar, >>Right? Okay, so let me first and talk about that. This is truly, as Matt pointed out, is not an insignificant release, right? This is not incremental. We, for example, that our customer we're rolling out a full 40 to argue rack that is support the traditional use cases and also that more than use cases and thinking about also a brand new eastern type that we call internal people Montt medium that in which we doubled not the sock account, but also the CPU moving from a to 24 CPUs to a 48 total and double our realm Rama 368 to 700 before and also doubling to introducing all flash like envy. MB based flash secondary storage for, um, 11 point half to 23 terabytes. And all these is really to honing in what might have pointed out that enterprise class. You know, the hi workloads, very density work clothes, right? You can put into the area 12 to 15. This kind of notes offer development and allows you to have that in the data center and to making sure that you have that kind of capacity for performance. We have that. The second thing I want to mention, as you can imagine, is the VD I I think virtual desktop infrastructure cannot be more important have this environment. Everybody is looking at it, and especially for the highly regulated industries like healthcare. So VMware right? We help for where the market leader with our offerings as a VM or horizon solution. So what happens in this release is we actually 35? We'll be certified on the VM or as horizon solution to making sure that we offer that enterprise distributed capacity to the industry that we really want to run up fast and also to making sure that they obviously cannot have actually support to have that capacity to offer the remote workers to front line healthcare workers and other business continuity type off use cases to that capacity for video. The last one is actually as you can imagine. Also in this environment is data backup and recovery. Right? The the enterprises are looking for a solution that in which they can not only backup protect and also search for search for the things that they can actually, for historical reasons. So in this release, we're actually certified to solutions for back up the 1st 1 of course, with our friends at Dell. Right, Dell data protect solution. The 2nd 1 is that's an industry leading solution right there. And the 2nd 1 is actually the beam, though so but with both solutions now, we can truly offer our customers who are looking for enterprise strength a backup solution to for the continuity and also for this to continue to operate in this environment. >>So I'm just curious. Before we let you go, you talked about this being a pretty significant release and we've talked about markets basis from edge back into the data center. Ah, and really kind of enterprise class heavy workloads, critical workloads, applications running this so as you look forward, you know, not give me any secrets out in terms of roadmap. But Where do you see this? This class of application evolving. >>So I think that you can imagine the week we talked to a variety of customers there different ways. We can actually expand this many off our retail customers has talked about their suggestions and 5G towers. Not only we can expand it to a data center, we probably will actually offer this type of solutions into, for example, a substantial retail shop or a back of pizza shop that's going small on one end. The other end is, I think, that many of our customers have expressed interest off off colocators, right. They're working with in other geographical areas that they're actually working with local providers that that they don't they don't own themselves. They do not even wanted to purchase right the cooling and managing the space. So they want us to provide an integrated solution with many of the large colocators, but as well as some of the niche colocators, so that we can offer that end to end and offer that together a city platform to our partners. So that's where we're going >>very exciting space, and you guys do. Move quick, Matt. I'll give you the last word before we sign out where people get more information. Wouldn't g A Or I guess, or is it is G. I think we are, Um, give us the last word. >>Yes, so yes, the services available. People can get more information BMR dot com And I think you know the truth of the matter is the cloud is an operating model. It's not an individual data center location, right? And the idea of a cloud. A cloud operating model that could be hybrid that can move from public cloud data centers to your own own data centers to the edge to everywhere in between, including MSC's VMware provides a great platform that standardizes across that on one of the things that is a driver for VMware customers is their ability to eat their existing workloads without having to modify re factor or rework the right. I have a workload that I sit in a data center in a public cloud of VM where simply V motion or use HC X to move that workload, and I could be up and running instantly on that consistency as a lot of flexibility, agility and, you know, it helps people do things faster. So I think those of my final comments it was really good to see you, Jeff. Thanks for having us. You >>do. Thanks for checking in. Ah, I think it's the first time we've done one of these, But certainly we've spent lots of time together around the Cube set. So Ah, I'm glad everybody's healthy and this to show passed. So keep working hard to keep delivering great products. And thanks again for stopping by. >>Thank you. >>Alright, He's Matt and way. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back. This is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days wall-to-wall coverage is Corey Quinn. Happy to welcome back to the program first Ben Sigelman, who is the co-founder and CEO of LightStep. And welcome to the program a first time Morgan McLean, who's a product manager at Google Cloud Platform. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yeah. >> All right so, this was a last minute ad for us because you guys had some interesting news in the keynote. I think the feedback everybody's heard is there's too many projects and everything's overlapping, and how do I make a decision, but interesting piece is OpenCensus, which Morgan was doing, and OpenTracing, which Ben and LightStep were doing are now moving together for OpenTelemetry if I got it right. >> Yup. >> So, is it just everybody's holding hands and singing Kumbaya around the Kubernetes campfire, or is there something more to this? >> Well I mean, it started when the CNCF locked us in a room and told us there were too many projects. (Stu and Ben laughing) Really wouldn't let us leave. No, to be fair they did actually take us to a room and really start the ball rolling, but conversations have picked up for the last few months and personally I'm just really excited that it's gone so well. Initially if you told me six or nine months ago that this would happen, I would've been, given just the way the projects were going, both were growing very quickly, I would've been a little skeptical. But seriously, this merger's gone beyond my wildest dreams. It's awesome, both to unite the communities, it's awesome to unite the projects together. >> What has the response been from the communities on this merger? >> Very positive. >> Yeah. >> Very positive. I mean OpenTracing and OpenCensus are both projects with healthy user bases that are growing quickly and all that, but the reason people adopt them is to future-proof their own software. Because they want to adopt something that's going to be here to stay. And by having these two things out in the world that are both successful, and were overlapping in terms of their goals, I think the presence of two projects was actually really problematic for people. So, the fact that they're merging is net positive, absolutely for the end user community, also for the vendor community, it's a similar, it's almost exactly the same parallel thought process. When we met, the CNCF did broker an in-person meeting where they gave us some space and we all got together and, I don't know how many people were there, like 20 or 30 people in that room. >> They did let us leave the room though, yesterday, yeah that was nice. >> They did let us leave the room, that's true. We were not locked in there, (Morgan laughing) but they asked us in the beginning, essentially they asked everyone to state what their goals were. And almost all of us really had the same goal, which is just to try and make it easy for end users to adopt a telemetry project that they can stick with for the long haul. And so when you think of it in that respect, the merger seems completely obvious. It is true that it doesn't happen very often, and we could speculate about why that is. But I think in this case it was enabled by the fact that we had pretty good social relationships with OpenCensus people. I think Twitter tends to amplify negativity in the world in general, as I'm sure people, not a controversial statement. >> News alert, wait, absolutely the negatives are, it's something in the algorithm I think. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Maybe they should fix that. >> Yeah, yeah (laughs) exactly. And it was funny, there was a lot of perceived animosity between OpenTracing and OpenCensus a year ago, nine months ago, but when you actually talk to the principals in the projects and even just the general purpose developers who are doing a huge amount of work for both projects, that wasn't a sentiment that was widely held or widely felt I think. So, it has been a very kind of happy, it's a huge relief frankly, this whole thing has been a huge relief for all of us I think. >> Yeah it feels like the general ask has always been that, for tracing that doesn't suck. And that tends to be a bit of a tall order. The way that they have seemed to have responded to it is a credit to the maturity of the community. And I think it also speaks to a growing realization that no one wants to have a monoculture of just one option, any color you want so long as it's black. (Ben laughing) Versus there's 500 different things you can pick that all stand in that same spot, and at that point analysis paralysis kicks in. So this feels like it's a net positive for, absolutely everyone involved. >> Definitely. Yeah, one of the anecdotes that Ben and I have shared throughout a lot of these interviews is there were a lot of projects that wanted to include distributed tracing in them. So various web frameworks, I think, was it Hadoop or HBase was-- >> HBase and HDFS were jointly deciding what to do about instrumentation. >> Yeah, and so they would publish an issue on GitHub and someone from OpenTracing would respond saying hey, OpenTracing does this. And they'd be like oh, that's interesting, we can go build an implementation file and issue, someone from OpenCensus would respond and say, no wait, you should use OpenCensus. And with these being very similar yet incompatible APIs, these groups like HBase would sit it and be like, this isn't mature enough, I don't want to deal with this, I've got more important things to focus on right now. And rather than even picking one and ignoring the other, they just ignored tracing, right? With things moving to microservices with Kubernetes being so popular, I mean just look at this conference. Distributed tracing is no longer this kind of nice to have when you're a big company, you need it to understand how your app works and understand the cause of an outage, the cause of a problem. And when you had organizations like this that were looking at tracing instrumentation saying this is a bit of joke with two competing projects, no one was being served well. >> All right, so you talked about there were incompatible APIs, so how do we get from where we were to where we're going? >> So I can talk about that a little bit. The APIs are conceptually incredibly similar. And the part of the criteria for any new language, for OpenTelemetry, are that we are able to build a software bridge to both OpenTracing and OpenCensus that will translate existing instrumentation alongside OpenTelemetry instrumentation, and omit the correct data at the end. And we've built that out in Java already and then starting working a few other languages. It's not a tremendously difficult thing to do if that's your goal. I've worked on this stuff, I started working on Dapper in 2004, so it's been 15 years that I've been working in this space, and I have a lot of regrets about what we did to OpenTracing. And I had this unbelievably tempting thing to start Greenfield like, let's do it right this time, and I'm suppressing every last impulse to do that. And the only goal for this project technically is backwards compatibility. >> Yeah. >> 100% backwards compatibility. There's the famous XKCD comic where you have 14 standards and someone says, we need to create a new standard that will unify across all 14 standards, and now you have 15 standards. So, we don't want to follow that pattern. And by having the leadership from OpenTracing and OpenCensus involved wholesale in this new effort, as well as having these compatibility bridges, we can avoid the fate of IPv6, of Python 3 and things like that. Where the new thing is very appealing but it's so far from the old thing that you literally can't get there incrementally. So that's, our entire design constraint is make sure that backwards compatibility works, get to one project and then we can think about the grand unifying theory of a provability-- >> Ben you are ruining the best thing about standards is that there is so many of them to choose from. (everyone laughing) >> There's still plenty more growing in other areas (laughs) just in this particular space it's smaller. >> One could argue that your approach is nonstandard in its own right. (Ben laughing) And in my own experiments with distributed tracing it seems like step one is, first you have to go back and instrument everything you've built. And step two, hey come back here, because that's a lot of work. The idea of an organization going back and reinstrumenting everything they've already instrumented the first time. >> It's unlikely. >> Unless they build things very modularly and very portably to do exactly that, it's a bit of a heavy lift. >> I agree, yeah, yeah. >> So going forward, are people who have deployed one or the other of your projects going to have to go back and do a reinstrumentation, or will they unify and continue to work as they are? >> So, I would pause at the, I don't know, I would be making up the statistic, so I shouldn't. But let's say a vast majority, I'm thinking like 95, 98% of instrumentation is actually embedded in frameworks and libraries that people depend on. So you need to get Dropwizard, and Spring, and Django, and Flask, and Kafka, things like that need to be instrumented. The application code, the instrumentation, that burden is a bit lower. We announced something called SpecialAgent at LightStep last week, separate to all of this. It's kind of a funny combination, a typical APM agent will interpose on individual function calls, which is a very complicated and heavyweight thing. This doesn't do any of that, but it takes, it basically surveys what you have in your process, it looks for OpenTracing, and in the future OpenTelemetry instrumentation that matches that, and then installs it for you. So you don't have to do any manual work, just basically gluing tab A into slot B or whatever, you don't have to do any of that stuff which is what most OpenTracing instrumentation actually looks like these days. And you can get off the ground without doing any code modifications. So, I think that direction, which is totally portable and vendor neutral as well, as a layer on top of telemetry makes a ton of sense. There are also data translation efforts that are part of OpenCensus that are being ported in to OpenTelemetry that also serve to repurpose existing sources of correlated data. So, all these things are ways to take existing software and get it into the new world without requiring any code changes or redeploys. >> The long-term goal of this has always been that because web framework and client library providers will go and build the instrumentation into those, that when you're writing your own service that you're deploying in Kubernetes or somewhere else, that by linking one of the OpenTelemetry implementations that you get all of that tracing and context propagation, everything out of the box. You as a sort of individual developer are only using the APIs to define custom metrics, custom spans, things that are specific to your business. >> So Ben, you didn't name LightStep the same as your project. But that being said, a major piece of your business is going through a change here, what does this mean for LightStep? >> That's actually not the way I see it for what it's worth. LightStep as a product, since you're giving me an opportunity to talk about it, (laughs) foolish move on your part. No, I'm just kidding. But LightStep as a product is totally omnivorous, we don't really care where the data comes from. And translating any source of data that has a correlation ID and a timestamp is a pretty trivial exercise for us. So we do support OpenTracing, we also support OpenCensus for what it's worth. We'll support OpenTelemetry, we support a bunch of weird in-house things people have already built. We don't care about that at all. The reason that we're pursuing OpenTelemetry is two-fold, one is that we do want to see high quality data coming out of projects. We said at the keynote this morning, but observability literally cannot be better than your telemetry. If your telemetry sucks, your observability will also suck. It's just definitionally true, if you go back to the definition of observability from the '60s. And so we want high quality telemetry so our product can be awesome. Also, just as an individual, I'm a nerd about this stuff and I just like it. I mean a lot of my motivation for working on this is that I personally find it gratifying. It's not really a commercial thing, I just like it. >> Do you find that, as you start talking about this more and more with companies that are becoming cloud-native rapidly, either through digital transformation or from springing fully formed from the forehead of some God, however these born in the cloud companies tend to be, that they intuitively are starting to grasp the value of tracing? Or does this wind up being a much heavier lift as you start, showing them the golden path as it were? >> It's definitely grown like I-- >> Well I think the value of tracing, you see that after you see the negative value of a really catastrophic outage. >> Yes. >> I mean I was just talking to a bank, I won't name the bank but a bank at this conference, and they were talking about their own adoption of tracing, which was pretty slow, until they had a really bad outage where they couldn't transact for an hour and they didn't know which of the 200 services was responsible for the issue. And that really put some muscle behind their tracing initiative. So, typically it's inspired by an incident like that, and then, it's a bit reactive. Sometimes it's not but either way you end up in that place eventually. >> I'm a strong proponent of distributed tracing and I feel very seen by your last answer. (Ben laughing) >> But it's definitely made a big impact. If you came to conferences like this two years ago you'd have Adrian, or Yuri or someone doing a talk on distributed tracing. And they would always start by asking the 100 to 200 person audience, who here knows what distributed tracing is? And like five people would raise their hand and everyone else would be like no, that's why I'm here at the talk, I want to find out about it. And you go to ones now, or even last year, and now they have 400 people at the talk and you ask, who knows what distributed tracing is? And last year over half the people would raise their hand, now it's going to be even higher. And I think just beyond even anecdotes, clearly businesses are finding the value because they're implementing it. And you can see that through the number of companies that have an interest in OpenTracing, OpenTelemetry, OpenCensus. You can see that in the growth of startups in this space, LightStep and others. >> The other thing I like about OpenTelemetry as a name, it's a bit of a mouthful but that's, it's important for people to understand the distinction between telemetry and tracing data and actual solutions. I mean OpenTelemetry stops when the correct data is being omitted. And then what you do with that data is your own business. And I also think that people are realizing that tracing is more than just visualizing a single distributed trace. >> Yeah. >> The traces have an enormous amount of information in there about resource usage, security patterns, access patterns, large-scale performance patterns that are embedded in thousands of traces, that sort of data is making its way into products as well. And I really like that OpenTelemetry has clearly delineated that it stops with the telemetry. OpenTracing was confusing for people, where they'd want tracing and they'd adopt OpenTracing, and then be like, where's my UI? And it's like well no, it's not that kind of project. With OpenTelemetry I think we've been very clear, this is about getting >> The name is more clear yeah. >> very high quality data in a portable way with minimal effort. And then you can use that in any number of ways, and I like that distinction, I think it's important. >> Okay so, how do we make sure that the combination of these two doesn't just get watered-down to the least common denominator, or that Ben just doesn't get upset and say, forget it, I'm going to start from scratch and do it right this time? (Ben laughing) >> I'm not sure I see either of those two happening. To your comment about the least common denominator, we're starting from what I was just commenting about like two years ago, from very little prior art. Like yeah, you had projects like Zipkin, and Zipkin had its own instrumentation, but it was just for tracing, it was just for Zipkin. And you had Jaeger with its own. And so, I think we're so far away, in a few years the least common denominator will be dramatically better than what we have today. (laughs) And so at this stage, I'm not even remotely worried about that. And secondly to some vendor, I know, because Ben had just exampled this, >> Some vendor, some vendor. >> that's probably not, probably not the best one. But for vendor interference in this projects, I really don't see it. Both because of what we talked about earlier where the vendors right now want more telemetry. I meet with them, Ben meets with 'em, we all meet with 'em all the time, we work with them. And the biggest challenge we have is just the data we get is bad, right? Either we don't support certain platforms, we'll get traces that dead end at certain places, we don't get metrics with the same name for certain types of telemetry. And so this project is going to fix that and it's going to solve this problem for a lot of vendors who have this, frankly, a really strong economic incentive to play ball, and to contribute to it. >> Do you see that this, I guess merging of the two projects, is offering an opportunity to either of you to fix some, or revisit if not fix, some of the mistakes, as they were, of the past? I know every time I build something I look back and it was frankly terrible because that's the kind of developer I am. But are you seeing this, as someone who's probably, presumably much better at developing than I've ever been, as the opportunity to unwind some of the decisions you made earlier on, out of either ignorance or it didn't work out as well as you hoped? >> There are a couple of things about each project that we see an opportunity to correct here without doing any damage to the compatibility story. For OpenTracing it was just a bit too narrow. I mean I would talk a lot about how we want to describe the software, not the tracing system. But we kind of made a mistake in that we called it OpenTracing. Really people want, if a request comes in, they want to describe that request and then have it go to their tracing system, but also to their metric system, and to their logging stack, and to anywhere else, their security system. You should only have to instrument that once. So, OpenTracing was a bit too narrow. OpenCensus, we've talked about this a lot, built a really high quality reference implementation into the product, if OpenCensus, the product I mean. And that coupling created problems for vendors to adopt and it was a bit thick for some end users as well. So we are still keeping the reference implementation, but it's now cleanly decoupled. >> Yeah. >> So we have loose coupling, a la OpenTracing, but wider scope a la OpenCensus. And in that aspect, I think philosophically, this OpenTelemetry effort has taken the best of both worlds from these two projects that it started with. >> All right well, Ben and Morgan thank you so much for sharing. Best of luck and let us know if CNCF needs to pull you guys in a room a little bit more to help work through any of the issues. (Ben laughing) But thanks again for joining us. >> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having us, it's been a pleasure. >> Yeah. >> All right for Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman we'll be back to wrap up our day one of two days live coverage here from KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019, Barcelona, Spain. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (soft instrumental music)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering IBM Think 2019, brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back everyone, live here in Moscone North in San Francisco, it's theCUBE's exclusive coverage of IBM Think 2019. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. We're bringing down all the action, four days of live coverage. We've got two great guests here, Elenita Elinon, Executive Director of Quantitative Research at JP Morgan Chase, and John Thomas, Distinguished Engineer and Director of the Data Science Elite Team... great team, elite data science team at IBM, and of course, JP Morgan Chase, great innovator. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, thank you, guys. >> So I like to dig in, great use case here real customer on the cutting edge, JP Morgan Chase, known for being on the bleeding edge sometimes, but financial, money, speed... time is money, insights is money. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> Tell us what you do at the Quantitative Group. >> Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me here, I'm quite honored. I hope you get something valuable out of what I say here. At the moment, I have two hats on, I am co-head of Quantitative Research Analytics. It's a very small SWAT, very well selected group of technologists who are also physicists and mathematicians, statisticians, high-performance compute experts, machine learning experts, and we help the larger organization of Quantitative Research which is about 700-plus strong, as well as some other technology organizations in the firm to use the latest, greatest technologies. And how we do this is we actually go in there, we're very hands-on, we're working with the systems, we're working with the tools, and we're applying it to real use cases and real business problems that we see in Quantitative Research, and we prove out the technology. We make sure that we're going to save millions of dollars using this thing, or we're going to be able to execute a lot on this particular business that was difficult to execute on before because we didn't have the right compute behind it. So we go in there, we try out these various technologies, we have lots of partnerships with the different vendors, and IBM's been obviously one of few, very major vendors that we work with, and we find the ones that work. We have an influencing role as well in the organization, so we go out and tell people, "Hey, look, "this particular tool, perfect for this type of problem. "You should try it out." We help them set it up. They can't figure out the technology? We help them out. We're kind of like what I said, we're a SWAT team, very small compared to the rest of the organization, but we add a lot of value. >> You guys are the brain trust too. You've got the math skills, you've got the quantitative modeling going on, and it's a competitive advantage for your business. This is like a key thing, a lot of new things are emerging. One of things we're seeing here in the industry, certainly at this show, it's not your yesterday's machine learning. There's certainly math involved, you've got cognition and math kind of coming together, deterministic, non-deterministic elements, you guys are seeing these front edge, the problems, opportunities, for you guys. How do you see that world evolving because you got the classic math, school of math machine learning, and then the school of learning machines coming together? What kind of problems do you see these things, this kind of new model attacking? >> So we're making a very, very large investment in machine learning and data science as a whole in the organization. You probably heard in the press that we've brought in the Head of Machine Learning from CMU, Manuela Veloso. She's now heading up the AI Research Organization, JP Morgan, and she's making herself very available to the rest of the firm, setting strategies, trying different things out, partnering with the businesses, and making sure that she understands the use case of where machine learning will be a success. We've also put a lot of investments in tooling and hiring the right kinds of people from the right kinds of universities. My organization, we're changing the focus in our recruiting efforts to bring in more data science and machine learning. But, I think the most important thing, in addition to all that investment is that we, first and foremost, understand our own problems, we work with researchers, we work with IBM, we work with the vendors, and say, "Okay, this is the types of problems, "what is the best thing to throw at it?" And then we PoC, we prove it out, we look for the small wins, we try to strategize, and then we come up with the recommendations for a full-out, scalable architecture. >> John, talk about the IBM Elite Program. You guys roll your sleeves up. It's a service that you guys provide with your top clients. You bring in the best and you just jump in, co-create opportunities together, solving problems. >> That is exactly right. >> How does this work? What's your relationship with JP Morgan Chase? What specific use case are you going after? What are the opportunities? >> Yeah, so the Data Science Elite Team was setup to really help our top clients in their AI journey, in terms of bringing skills, tools, expertise to work collaboratively with clients like JP Morgan Chase. It's been a great partnership working with Elenita and her team. We've had some very interesting use cases related to her model risk management platform, and some interesting challenges in that space about how do you apply machine learning and deep learning to solve those problems. >> So what exactly is model risk management? How does that all work? >> Good question. (laughing) That's why we're building a very large platform around it. So model risk is one of several types of risk that we worry about and keep us awake at night. There's a long history of risk management in the banks. Of course, there's credit risk, there's market risk, these are all very well-known, very quantified risks. Model risk isn't a number, right? You can't say, "this model, which is some stochastic model "it's going to cost us X million dollars today," right? We currently... it's so somewhat new, and at the moment, it's more prescriptive and things like, you can't do that, or you can use that model in this context, or you can't use it for this type of trade. It's very difficult to automate that type of model risk in the banks, so I'm attempting to put together a platform that captures all of the prescriptive, and the conditions, and the restrictions around what to do, and what to use models for in the bank. Making sure that we actually know this in real time, or at least when the trade is being booked, We have an awareness of where these models are getting somewhat abused, right? We look out for those types of situations, and we make sure that we alert the correct stakeholders, and they do something about it. >> So in essence, you're governing the application of the model, and then learning as you go on, in terms of-- >> That's the second phase. So we do want to learn at the moment, what's in production today. Morpheus running in production, it's running against all of the trading systems in the firm, inside the investment bank. We want to make sure that as these trades are getting booked from day to day, we understand which ones are risky, and we flag those. There's no learning yet in that, but what we've worked with John on are the potential uses of machine learning to help us manage all those risks because it's difficult. There's a lot of data out there. I was just saying, "I don't want our Quants to do stupid things," 'cause there's too much stupidity happening right now. We're looking at emails, we're looking at data that doesn't make sense, so Morpheus is an attempt to make all of that understandable, and make the whole workflow efficient. >> So it's financial programming in a way, that's come with a whole scale of computing, a model gone astray could be very dangerous? >> Absolutely. >> This is what you're getting at right? >> It will cost real money to the firm. This is all the use-- >> So a model to watch the model? So policing the models, kind of watching-- >> Yes, another model. >> When you have to isolate the contribution of the model not like you saying before, "Are there market risks "or other types of risks--" >> Correct. >> You isolate it to the narrow component. >> And there's a lot of work. We work with the Model Governance Organization, another several hundred person organization, and that's all they do. They figure out, they review the models, they understand what the risk of the models are. Now, it's the job of my team to take what they say, which could be very easy to interpret or very hard, and there's a little bit of NLP that I think is potentially useful there, to convert what they say about a model, and what controls around the model are to something that we can systematize and run everyday, and possibly even in real time. >> This is really about getting it right and not letting it get out of control, but also this is where the scale comes in so when you get the model right, you can deploy it, manage it in a way that helps the business, versus if someone throws the wrong number in there, or the classic "we've got a model for that." >> Right, exactly. (laughing) There's two things here, right? There's the ability to monitor a model such that we don't pay fines, and we don't go out of compliance, and there's the ability to use the model exactly to the extreme where we're still within compliance, and make money, right? 'Cause we want to use these models and make our business stronger. >> There's consequences too, I mean, if it's an opportunity, there's upside, it's a problem, there's downside. You guys look at the quantification of those kinds of consequences where the risk management comes in? >> Yeah, absolutely. And there's real money that's at stake here, right? If the regulators decide that a model's too risky, you have to set aside a certain amount of capital so that you're basically protecting your investors and your business, and the stakeholders. If that's done incorrectly, we end up putting a lot more capital in reserve than we should be, and that's a bad thing. So quantifying the risks correctly and accurately is a very important part of what we do. >> So a lot of skillsets obviously, and I always say, "In the money business, you want the best nerds." Don't hate me for saying that... the smartest people. What are some of the challenges that are unique to model risk management that you might not see in sort of other risk management approaches? >> There are some technical challenges, right? The volume of data that you're dealing with is very large. If you are building... so at the very simplistic level, you have classification problems that you're addressing with data that might not actually be all there, so that is one. When you get into time series analysis for exposure prediction and so on, these are complex problems to handle. The training time for these models, especially deep learning models, if you are doing time series analysis, can be pretty challenging. Data volume, training time for models, how do you turn this around quickly? We use a combination of technologies for some of these use cases. Watson Studio running on power hardware with GPUs. So the idea here is you can cut down your model training time dramatically and we saw that as part of the-- >> Talk about how that works because this is something that we're seeing people move from manual to automated machine learning and deep learning, it give you augmented assistance to get this to the market. How does it actually work? >> So there is a training part of this, and then there is the operationalizing part of this, right? At the training part itself, you have a challenge, which is you're dealing with very large data volumes, you're dealing with training times that need to be shrunk down. And having a platform that allows you to do that, so you build models quickly, your data science folks can iterate through model creation very quickly is essential. But then, once the models have been built, how do you operationalize those models? How do you actually invoke the models at scale? How do you do workflow management of those models? How do you make sure that a certain exposure model is not thrashing some other models that are also essential to the business? How do you do policies and workflow management? >> And on top of that, we need to be very transparent, right? If the model is used to make certain decisions that have obvious impact financially on the bottom line, and an auditor comes back and says, "Okay, you made this trade so and so, why? What was happening at that time?" So we need to be able to capture and snapshot and understand what the model was doing at that particular instant in time, and go back and understand the inputs that went into that model and made it operate the way it did. >> It can't be a black box. >> It cannot be, yeah. >> Holistically, you got to look at the time series in real time, when things were happening and happened, happening, and then holistically tie that together. Is that kind of the impact analysis? >> We have to make our regulars happy. (laughing) That's number one, and we have to make our traders happy. We, as quantitative researchers, we're the ones that give them the hard math and the models, and then they use it. They use their own skillsets too to apply them, but-- >> What's the biggest needs that your stakeholders on the trading side want, and what's the needs on the compliance side, the traders want more, they want to move quickly? >> They're coming from different sides of it. Traders want to make more money, right? And they want to make decisions quickly. They want all the tools to tell them what to do, and for them to exercise whatever they normally exercise-- >> They want a competitive advantage. >> They want that competitive advantage, and they're also... we've got algo-trades as well, we want to have the best algo behind our trading. >> And the regulator side, we just want to make sure laws aren't broken, that there's auditing-- >> We use the phrase, "model explainability," right? Can you explain how the model came to a conclusion, right? Can you make sure that there is no bias in the model? How can you ensure the models are fair? And if you can detect there is a drift, what do you do to correct that? So that is very important. >> Do you have means of detecting sort of misuse of the model? Is that part of the governance process? >> That is exactly what Morpheus is doing. The unique thing about Morpheus is that we're tied into the risk management systems in the investment bank. We're actually running the same exact code that's pricing these trades, and what that brings is the ability to really understand pretty much the full stack trace of what's going into the price of a trade. We also have captured the restrictions and the conditions. It's in the Python script, it's essentially Python. And we can marry the two, and we can do all the checks that the governance person indicated we should be doing, and so we know, okay, if this trade is operating beyond maturity or a certain maturity, or beyond a certain expiry, we'll know that, and then we'll tag that information. >> And just for clarification, Morpheus is the name of the platform that does the-- >> Morpheus is the name of the model risk platform that I'm building out, yes. >> A final question for you, what's the biggest challenge that you guys have seen from a complexity standpoint that you're solving? What's the big complex... You don't want to just be rubber-stamping models. You want to solve big problems. What are the big problems that you guys are going after? >> I have many big problems. (laughing) >> Opportunities. >> The one that is right now facing me, is the problem of metadata, data ingestion, getting disparate sources, getting different disparate data from different sources. One source calls it a delta, this other source calls it something else. We've got a strategic data warehouse, that's supposed to take all of these exposures and make sense out of it. I'm in the middle because they're there, probably at the ten-year roadmap, who knows? And I have a one-month roadmap, I have something that was due last week and I need to come up with these regulatory reports today. So what I end up doing is a mix of a tactical strategic data ingestion, and I have to make sense of the data that I'm getting. So I need tools out there that will help support that type of data ingestion problem that will also lead the way towards the more strategic one, where we're better integrated with this-- >> John, talk about how you solve the problems? What are some of the things that you guys do? Give the plug for IBM real quick, 'cause I know you guys got the Studio. Explain how you guys are helping and working with JP Morgan Chase. >> Yeah, I touched upon this briefly earlier, which is from the model training perspective, Watson Studio running on Power hardware is very powerful, in terms of cutting down training time, right? But you've got to go beyond model building to how do you operationalize these models? How do I deploy these models at scale? How do I define workload management policies for these models, and connecting to their backbone. So that is part of this, and model explainability, we touched upon that, to eliminate this problem of how do I ingest data from different sources without having to manually oversee all of that. We need to manually apply auto-classification at the time of ingestion. Can I capture metadata around the model and reconcile data from different data sources as the data is being brought in? And can I apply ML to solve that problem, right? There is multiple applications of ML along this workflow. >> Talk about real quick, comment before we break, I want to get this in, machine learning has been around for a while now with compute and scale. It really is a renaissance in AI, it's great things are happening. But what feeds machine learning is data, the cleaner the data, the better the AI, the better the machine learning, so data cleanliness now has to be more real-time, it's less of a cleaning group, right? It used to be clean the data, bring it in, wrangle it, now you got to be much more agile, use speed of compute to make sure that you're qualifying data before it comes in, these machine learning. How do you guys see that rolling out, is that impacting you now? Are you thinking about it? How should people think about data quality as an input in machine learning? >> Well, I think the whole problem of setting up an application properly for data science and machine learning is really making sure that from the beginning, you're designing, and you're thinking about all of these problems of data quality, if it's the speed of ingestion, the speed of publication, all of that stuff. You need to think about the beginning, set yourself up to have the right elements, and it may not all be built out, and that's been a big strategy I've had with Morpheus. I've had a very small team working on it, but we think ahead and we put elements of the right components in place so data quality is just one of those things, and we're always trying to find the right tool sets that will enable use to do that better, faster, quicker. One of the things I'd like to do is to upscale and uplift the skillsets on my team, so that we are building the right things in the system from the beginning. >> A lot of that's math too, right? I mean, you talk about classification, getting that right upfront. Mathematics is-- >> And we'll continue to partner with Elenita and her team on this, and this helps us shape the direction in which our data science offerings go because we need to address complex enterprise challenges. >> I think you guys are really onto something big. I love the elite program, but I think having the small team, thinking about the model, thinking about the business model, the team model before you build the technology build-out, is super important, that seems to be the new model versus the old days, build some great technology and then, we'll put a team around it. So you see the world kind of being a little bit more... it's easier to build out and acquire technology, than to get it right, that seems to be the trend here. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. theCUBE here, CUBE Conversations here. We're live in San Francisco, IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante, stay with us for more day two coverage. Four days we'll be here in the hallway and lobby of Moscone North, stay with us.

>> Live from the MIT campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering the 12th annual MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of MIT's CDOIQ. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Peter Burris. We're joined by Jeff McMillan. He is the managing director at Morgan Stanley. Well, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, Jeff. >> Thanks for having me, it's great to be here. >> So you were just on a panel that was discussing the challenges and the opportunities of the CDO today. I mean, it is a mark of where the CDO role is, just by virtue of the fact that so many corporations are putting it front and center in their organizations. >> Yeah, I think what's interesting, though, is it is bit of a solution in search of a problem, and what I find the biggest challenge that many of these people are facing is that data in and of itself solves nothing, right? Unless you actually say, what business problem am I trying to solve, is it a risk problem, is it an efficiency play, is it a customer service issue, and then building your data solutions in support of that. Too many people start their journey by hiring 400 people, and they create data lineages and they have to create a dictionary and they put all these structures in place, and most of them fail, because they actually didn't figure out what they're solving for, and often times, very elegant and small solutions can actually drive a lot of positive outcomes, but the biggest mistake that, and we actually just discussed this on the panel, is knowing what you're solving for is the first step to be a successful chief data officer. >> Well, investments in infrastructure before outcomes fail no matter what they are, right? So whether it's an infrastructure of doing data analytics better, as you said, a whole bunch of clusters and a whole bunch of metadata management and other stuff, if it's not applied to some end, it's not going to get adopted. So we like to think we were talking in the opening thing, that one of the things that a chief data officer needs to do is acculturate the business to the idea of data being an asset, something that can be applied to work. And it's interesting in part because data can also help you choose what work you should apply it to. So talk a little bit about that. Does that resonate with you? >> I would totally agree with that, and it's not different, like when the first person created a business 2,000 years ago, somewhere along the line they said they needed somebody to keep track of the money, right? And the chief financial officer role sort of emerged, and then we had this thing where people actually came to work every day and they weren't really well trained and didn't understand their responsibilities, so we created the head of human resources. And I think these functions have evolved because as the business model grows, you need to have people to drive specific skills and competencies around these areas. And the truth is, in most organizations, we don't treat data like an asset. And part of it is the machinery, it's getting your Hadoop clusters up and putting your data meta and all that stuff. >> Or we confuse the assets of the technology with the assets that drive business value. >> That's right, and when people fail, it is rarely because they couldn't get the right data quality controls in place. They fail because they didn't get the right engagement model, and they didn't get the left hand and the right hand talking together, and at the core, data is not a data problem, it's an organizational problem. >> So there is this lack of consensus about where the CDO should sit, what his or her responsibilities mandate, scope, what do you think is the answer here? >> Well, we just got off the panel, and this was actually hotly debated, and there were two views on this that were highly divergent. >> But none of the other panelists are here today. >> Yeah, so my view's the right view. (laughter) Actually, I'll lay out both arguments. One of my colleagues on the panel was really driving this tech-focused approach, and her argument, which has some matter in fairness, is that so much of data is about the technology and the interplay and also the knowledge and the expertise and appreciation. You know, technology's been dealing with this problem for 25 years. No one was actually listening to them, right? So there is tremendous knowledge and expertise built up there. I took the other side of the equation, and I worked for the co-heads of our business, because it's not about the technology. And again, the challenges and the barriers to success are not technical in nature, it's leadership. And one thing that's interesting about data, and the reason that people have such a hard time with it, is that the problem and the solution to the problem often sit in two different cost centers. So getting somebody else to care about a problem that impacts you, when it actually doesn't drive your outcomes, is really hard, and that requires leadership and it requires collaboration. And sitting in a technology organization, by the way, I work with terrific technology folks, so this is not a disparagement on them, but sitting under the co-heads of the business, I am able to have those conversations with the other leaders of the business, and say listen, I know that you don't care about this, but for the best interest of the organization, we have to make these investments and let me explain, and those people think more holistically 'cause they're solving for the enterprise as opposed to their individual piece of technology. >> Which really is kind of you said, it requires leadership and it requires collaboration, but that also is one of the fundamental orientation of what great strategy should be. It's a way of cohering the mental model, getting everybody to agree on what the outcome and what the objective needs to be. >> Totally, and by the way, for those of us who are around in the late 90s. >> Not me! (laughter) >> When everyone hired the head of Internet strategy. This feels very much the same way, right? Everyone built websites and they had straight through processing and they sort of woke up a year and a half later, and they said, how has this gotten better? And they said oh, maybe we actually need to connect it to our infrastructure. >> I'll date myself. I remember when these conversations about whether or not we had a CIL, when we had a head of DP within HR, we had a head of DP within accounting, and there was whoa, what are we, the chief is responsible from my perspective, and I'd like to hear what you have to say, a chief anything is responsible for getting a return on the assets that are entrusted to them. >> Yeah, and that is 100% true. That being said, where you make your money is in the businesses, and I think to be really good at this job, you have to be very humble. And you can't make it about you and your goals and objectives, 'cause I have no goals and objectives outside of the goals and objectives of the business that I support. And part of what a lot of the challenge that people have, is they want to build empires, and I actually, I said to my boss, I have declared success when I'm an organization of one, because what I've been able to done is I've been able to set up the right controls, I've got the right people on the right jobs who understand, and the right technology, but the innovation is happening. It doesn't happen to my group. It happens away from my group. It happens when that 23-year-old who has got, with six weeks of visualization training, is sitting at 10 o'clock at night, figures out a better way to sell a municipal bond, because they spent 100 of their hours working on that. It's democratizing access to that, and it's really finding that right balance between control, ensuring the right data quality's in place, but also giving people the ability to innovate, and I think that's the perfect inflection point where you want to be. >> So what is the answer here? How would you give this remedy to other organizations in terms of the best practices that have emerged, and how to do this and do it right? >> Well, first and foremost, you got to know what your strategy is. I was on a panel with GE and General Motors. Their goals and objectives are very different than my goals and objectives. So don't leave this conference because Jeff McMillan did it this way at Morgan Stanley, and assume that that's the right answer for you. I think you have to first ask yourself, what are the most important objectives, and what is your strategy, 'cause the other thing I find is, you ask that question, a lot of businesses, even in this world in which, 2018, we talk about all the time, they don't have a clearly articulated strategy. And unless you have a strategy, putting data on the back end of that is not going to solve the problem. So first and foremost, you got to have a strategy. And then secondly, you got to put the right technical infrastructure in, there's a lot of plumbing that goes into this, and I'm going to gloss over it, but it's really important, and then you got to put the right organizational structure in place. I actually don't believe that you create a different parallel committee around this. The way we do it at our firm is we actually, the existing executive committee, is responsible for this, it's an additional function of them. We report into that function, and then you say, what is your business goals and objectives? Figure out where the gaps are, and then spend the time, money, and resources to solve and focus on that, and do it one problem at a time, and in doing that, you start to build this, what I'll describe as a data-centric or decision-centric culture. >> We call it data first, and so the way we tend to think about it, and I want to bounce this off of you is, you know, what's your business, what are the activities, the outcomes that are necessary to perform that business, what activities are necessary to achieve those outcomes, what data is necessary to perform those activities? >> That's right. >> Does that kind of follow? >> 100%, and also what processes, 'cause the other thing is that you talk to the data consultants, it's all about the data. And then you talk to the process consultants about the process, it's all about all of those things, and the point is that the data is the piece that sits, but there are many factors that influence that. Sometimes it's a data quality program. Sometimes it's a training program. Sometimes it's a technology issue. Sometimes it's a vendor supply issue. There's a whole host of reasons, and really the question is how do you use the data as the rallying point to say, this is the objective source of truth, and where is that objective source of truth, either not from a quality perspective, or from a business perspective, how does it impact those business, and always going back to that thing, 'cause there's truth in that attribute. >> And is that a culture issue? >> Well, it's a process of the technology, and it ultimately is a culture. And it's going back to the original comment, is do you see data as a problem, or do you see data as an opportunity? And I would argue, and I'm not going to speak for other companies, but in the world of finance, we live in bits, zeroes and ones, right? We are an information based business at the core, that happens to be delivering a financial services product. And in that world, that is our competitive advantage. I have a database of every single transaction that every client has ever given with us at Morgan Stanley. I know your risk tolerance level. I know where you live, I know whether you have children. That is a powerful source of knowledge, that if harnessed appropriately, allows to deliver a far, far superior solution to our clients and what they were getting previously. >> Great, well Jeff, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's really fun talking to you. >> Yeah, thank you so much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. For Peter Burris, we will have more from MIT's CDOIQ coming up just after this.

(lively music) >> Hello, and welcome to a special CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto studios of theCUBE, I am John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media and also the co-host of theCUBE. We are here with Blake Morgan, who is the futurist, author, speaker, around the concept of customer experience, and has a great new book out called, More is More. Blake, Welcome to theCUBE Conversation. >> Thank you John. >> Thanks for coming in. So I love that it is a hard cover book, the book is great, it feels good, the pages, it's a really good read, but it's got a lot of meaty topics in there. So let's just jump in, what's the motivation for the book? Why the book? Why More is More? >> So I have been in the contact center space for over 10 years and basically everyone under the sun is a customer and we all know what it feels like to have a bad customer experience. Have you had a bad customer experience ever? >> John: Oh yes. >> Yeah, right. >> So there is no shortage of work to be done in this space. I think now it's a great time to be in customer experience because there is more awareness about what it actually means. So, I wrote the book to basically provide some kind of definition and to really help people understand, What is customer experience?. Is it customer service? No, it's not. So what does it mean? How can businesses improve customer experience and what do they need to know to get started? >> How about the evolution? Because you know digital has really changed the game. You are seeing cloud computing, machine learning, AI techniques, bots certainly. I mean Twitter came out over ten years ago. I remember when Comcast Cares came out, you know that was a revolution. It was this one guy who decided to be on Twitter. We saw that beginning of that, that trend, where you can now serve and touch folks with customer service and experience, but then again, the blinds between customer experience and customer experience is blurring. Now those multiple channels, do you send them a Snapchat? Do you Instagram? All kinds of new things are emerging, so how do you define, as a frame, the customer experience in this new context? >> Yeah, you're right, there are so many channels. It's really overwhelming for a lot of businesses. So I think it is important to really cut out the noise to think about, Who are you as a business?, and Who is your customer?. What does your customer need? And I really encourage businesses to make their life harder to make it easier on the customer, because in so many situations, companies make it easier on themselves and make it harder on their customers. For example, say you do tweet a company, they might tell you, Hey, now you need to call us and repeat yourself or Now you need to send us an email. Well that's not easy for me as the customer. So it's really all about making customers' lives easier and better. That's the name of the game. >> So what was the findings in the book, when you did the research for the book, what was the core problem that companies are facing? Was it understanding customer experience? Was it the re imagining of customer experience? Was it just a strategic imperative? What was the problem that you uncovered that was the core to this new customer experience equation? >> So a lot of people equate customer experience with customer service and that's a big problem because for most companies, customer service is a cost center. It's not a revenue generating arm of the business. It's not exciting, it's not a money maker, it's not marketing or sales, and so that is really what people think of, when they think of customer experience. But the book is based on this DO MORE framework and DO MORE is basically represents as an acronym. Each piece of the six piece framework represents a different piece of where customer experience lives. So the first D is design something special. The second, I'm not going to read you every, I'm not going to bore you every single word, but the second is about loving your employees, so that is a part of it too. So culture, modernizing with technology, obsessing over your customers, having a culture of customer centricity and embracing innovation and disruption. So these are all varying pieces of DO MORE, which really helps companies understand, it's not simply something that sits in the contact center. For example, let's say you've got your laptop here, and you love your laptop, but your experience of the laptop is not only shaped by, say you have to contact the call center, it is also shaped by how that laptop was built and how about those people who built the laptop. Were they fighting at work with each other? Did they like their jobs? Did they like their boss? Honestly, that's going to impact your experience. >> Yeah, was it a sweat shop. >> Was it a sweat shop? There you go. >> I mean there's all kind of issues about social good too kind of comes into it with that. >> It actually does, I write a lot about social good in my book and some really great CEOs today get that social good is important, like the CEO of Patagonia or Marc Benioff. I mean you can just rattle off so many examples of stuff that he's doing, whether it is equal pay for woman, or his huge house in Hawaii where he's housed monks, to help them when one of the monks had cancer actually. Salesforce is constantly doing good for it's employees and for the community at large. >> Take me through your view on how executives should think about customer experience with all the digital transformation, because a lot of business models are shifting, you are seeing mobile apps, changing the financial services market, because now the app is the teller. So you have three kinds of companies out there, you've got the customer service oriented company, like a Zappos, or you've got a tech company like Google, but they are all about product innovation. Then you've got companies like Apple and others, that are like the big brand and culture personalities, so you've got these three different kind of companies as an example, each one might have a different view on customer experience. How do you tie, how does an executive figure out how to match the more into their DNA? >> That's a fantastic question. I think it's important to have somebody accountable to it, whether it's a Chief Customer Officer or your CMO, because the CEO is ultimately responsible, however, the CEO has their hand in so many things, it's not scalable for them to be so involved on a granular level, on customer centric metrics and so on and so forth throughout the organization. So I would encourage a company to actually hire somebody who is accountable, who creates even tiger teams across the organization with these customer centric metrics in mind, so everybody is working together and they know their job, no matter if they are HR or finance or marketing or customer service, that their metrics, their performance metrics, are tied back to the customer satisfaction. >> I know you do a lot of talks and you do a lot of speeches out there and events, what's the common question that you get? I mean what are people really struggling with or what are they interested in, what are some of the things that you are hearing when you are out on the road giving talks? >> I think it's hard to actually put some of these practices, I think it's actually hard to put some of these ideas into practice. For example, I recently gave a talk at a large technology company down here in San Jose and I presented some pretty wild ideas about actually the energy for influencing change. So how do we keep that high level of stamina with our employees when it's just quite hard to sometimes even keep up. I remember I gave this speech, I talked about a lot of very eccentric ideas about self-management, like when you are a worker you need to take care of yourself because the corporation is never going to give you a pass to let's say, rest, or do what you need to do to feel good, to be good at work. I noticed some of the people in the audience were all texting each other and afterwards someone came up to me and said, you know we are all texting each other because you say these things and the speech was purchased by the leader of the company, however, when it comes to actually working here, that is not really the vibe here, that's not the culture. So I think that a lot of, even the best companies today, still struggle every single day with some of these ideas, because when you DO MORE, when you work harder than others, it's tiring, it can take it's toll on employees. So how do you keep people fresh? >> So fatigue is a huge issue. >> Fatigue, yes. It is an issue. >> So how do they solve that? Because again, that is an experience and the employees itself represent brands. >> Yeah. >> So what are some of the solutions for that? >> Yeah so it's normal that people in these big companies feel fatigued when they are working harder for the customer, but it is really important for people to just manage themselves because no one is going to give you permission to take ten minutes to go for a walk, take ten minutes to go meditate, so it's really about management providing the room for employees to breathe and also modeling it as an example, if leaders just worked 24/7, it's all about the grind, the grind, the grind, that's not a healthy culture, so they need to push their people, but also give them some kind of safety that they can take care of themselves as well. >> So talk about the book target. Who is the ideal candidate for the book? Who are you writing the book for? What do you hope to accomplish for the reader and the outcome? >> So I write for Forbes and Harvard Business Review and Hemispheres Magazine, I have a lot of different types of readers because customer experience really affects everybody in business. So it could be the CMO, it could be the Chief Customer Officer, it could be the CEO, in fact the CEO of 1-800-Flowers wrote the foreword for my book, Chris McCann. So this book is really relevant for a wide variety of people who are interested in making their company more competitive. >> That's a great point, so let's trill down on that, customer experience just doesn't end in a department, we've seen this in IT, information technology, it's a department that becomes now pervasive with cloud computing, you see social media out there, so customer experience has multiple touch points, hence the broad appeal, how should someone think about being the customer experience champion? Because you always have the champions that kind of drives the change, so you've got change agents and you have kind of to me, the pre-existing management in place, what's the human role in this? Because remember, you have machines out there, you have bots, and all those machine learning technology out there, it's important that the human piece is integral to this, right? I mean what's your view on the role of the person? >> Yeah I'm not anti-technology, I'm not anti-bot, I am excited about the Amazon Go cashier-less stores, Amazon Go stores, but I do feel that technology can help us without totally replacing us. I think that we need thoughtful people in charge of these technologies to lead us, to make smart decisions, but you can't just let the technology go. I think that can be really scary. We've definitely seen so many TV shows about this, you can't blink without seeing another TV show about robots taking over the world. >> So it's a concern. What's the biggest thing you've learned from the book? What was the key learnings for you, personally, when you wrote this book? >> Well, writing a book, there is a lot of learning. I actually had my daughter, I was pregnant while I wrote this book and so I think for me to be totally candid, it was a lesson in patience and working through that period for me being pregnant. So I was like giving birth to the book and an actual baby. To be totally truthful, that was my learning. >> You got a lot more than the book. >> Blake: Laughing >> Well, congratulations, how old is the baby? >> She's sixteen months. >> Congratulations, awesome. >> Thank you. >> Well thanks for coming in and sharing about More is More, Blake Morgan, futurist author on the customer experience, More is More, it's theCUBE Conversation and really an impactful thought because customer experience transcends not just a department, it really is a mindset, it's about culture, it's about a lot of things, and it's certainly in the digital revolution, it's really going to be fundamental. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. >> Blake: Thanks so much. >> Appreciate it. I am John Furrier here in the Palo Alto studios for CUBE Conversation, thanks for watching. (lively music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Live here in Las Vegas is the CUBE's exclusive coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017, our fifth year of covering the massive growth of Amazon Web Services. I'm John Furrier, cofounder of SiliconANGLE Media, Inc. with my cohost, Keith Townsend, CTO advisor. We've got two amazing guests here from Druva, a hot startup, a hot company. Guss Gustafson is the executive chairman of the board, and Matt Morgan is the chief marketing officer at Druva. Been on the CUBE but many times. We've had you in the studio. You guys are doing extremely well. You've always got some news for us, always executing. You are like the Amazon of your sector. You've always got stuff going on, what's up? Tell us, share the news. >> Super excited about announcing a new technology, a new product line. It's called Druva Apollo, and Druva Apollo basically completes the cloud data protection story, so as you guys know, we've wrapped endpoints with data protection and data management, and we call it data management as a service. We've wrapped servers with the data management as a service. We took the data, we've protected within the cloud, but with Druva Apollo, what we've announced is cloud-to-cloud data protection, meaning that data that's born inside an EC2 existence, for example, can be wrapped with the same data protection and management as we do for endpoints and the servers. It really is an extension of the platform. Now you can start looking at the data holistically, any data, no matter if it's on the endpoint, the server, or now, within the cloud can be protected within the same controlled data set, getting the full global D2 technology, plus the governance and intelligence capability. I'm really excited about this announcement. >> Now, I want to ask a question on that, because one of the things we talked about in the past on is the cloud has changed the game around perimeter, no more perimeter. >> Right. >> There is no wall from the cloud, a lot of holes to get in there if you are a hacker, but you have a product leadership, but and ease-of-use. One of the things that the cloud is the ability to acquire the resources, right? The server list is out there, how do you guys compete in this now potentially data protection-less world, or is that a term? I mean, you've got to be seamless, but you've got to have good tech. How do you guys do both of those? >> I think you actually just underscore the paradigm shift that's happening. We used to think of data being localized to a server, to a machine, and you had to protect that machine. You wanted to, quote, backup hard drive if you will. Well, data is now in a serverless environment. It's in the air, it's in the cloud, it's tied to applications that may or may not be running within a specific instance. You don't have the control factors, right? >> John: Or some other database. >> That's exactly right. >> Mobile databases now. >> That's exactly the point, right? What we are doing is, because we are stateless, because we exist on these multiple planes, you can have a much more universal conversation around data protection and management, but there is another big "ah-hah" about moving to the cloud for data protection and management, and it's all about ease-of-use and simplicity. Now with a single login, with a single set of credentials, I can access and search across massive data sets that could contain all my endpoints, or it could contain multiple servers, or now it can contain cloud-to-cloud data protected instances. This is a very big deal. Think about the past. If I was a classic hardware acquisition play where I purchased specific silos of data storage or secondary storage, I needed to manage each and every one, and there could be hundreds. I would need to manage hundreds of logins. I had to keep them all up to date. All of that is gone with Druva. >> Let's talk about user experience. This is a developer-focused conference. >> Matt: Totally. >> I'm amazed at the number of shorts and hoodies I've seen (laughing) At a proper enterprise conference. >> John: It's a developer conference turned enterprise. >> Yes, developer conference-- >> Not an enterprise conference. (talking over each other) unlike everybody else. >> The infrastructure company having a hackerthon, for example, but developers don't care about servers. They care about data and interacting with that data. >> Matt: That's right. >> What is the developer experience for recovering and protecting data within Druva? Do they have to go through some backup grandfather-son, son-father set up to back up data? What is the experience? >> There are some vendors that actually still require that. (laughing) Some of them have acted like it's a breakthrough to put it in an appliance, but at the end of the day, it's the same conversation. It's just a localized piece of hardware. Druva's conversation is very different. Data protection is all about where that date is going to be managed and stored, and how you connect it up to the service. By being stateless, we've created an entire architecture that allows all of that data to be collected centrally. Once it's there, the developer has the capability to access it, but the real value comes on the governance side, and on the legal side, so if I'm in a situation where I need to manage critical corporate IP, and know it's protected, and and now I have an audit trail on that data, who has touched it, what they did with it, where it was copied. I have that information. I can search for that information. So it moves a little bit beyond a classic developer point of view and extends that data control to the other players. >> Gus, I want to get your take on this because you are the chairman of the board, but also you have a lot of industry experience. We are seeing a shift in the business now where scale of the cloud is causing a lot of disruption. You guys are taking advantage of it at Druva, but also you are seeing some deviants in Silicon Valley, in our backyard. You've got startups that were born before 2012 with the "go big or go home" attitude, Andreessen Horowitz in Sequoia writing fat checks, $100 million. They can't scale up to compete against this other scale. They got out-scaled, so they end up getting acquired, you know, accu-hired. Barracuda's going private. A gem in the valley, great company, no cloud strategy, so scale is dessimating and creating value at the same time. How should businesses look at this business model paradigm shift where it's not go big or go home, it's find a spot in the ecosystem (laughing) and milk it, or get a position. You can't compete. It's hard to compete against scale. >> Scale, you are right, the whole scale paradigm has now gone from-- it's beyond comprehension, to be honest with you. I think the other thing that we've learned, and this is how Druva looks at this, you can't compress experience. You can't compress learning and application of learning, and so for eight years plus we've been at this game thinking about scale, and in some cases, to be quite blunt, we experience it with our customers because there is no predetermined path in a lot of these things, but for companies of scale today, I think you would have to have a cloud-first mentality. That's what Druva brought to the party. I think we are seeing a lot of people that have looked at this and said, "How do I actually get all the way over here?" Our message is really simple. Let's just get started. Whatever applications or use cases it is to get started, whether it is endpoint, whether it's a server, cloud apps, but we've thought about and built the vision around the entire end-to-end strategy, so we will bump into things at scale. We will figure out how to handle those. We recently brought on board a customer with 75,000 employees, another one with another 50,000, and we've done this before, but those are new layers of scale. >> John : You guys are taking a pragmatic approach. >> We are. >> You guys aren't trying to overbuild, get over your skis, or whatever people call it, but don't create a situation where there is diseconomies. Leverage what you've got, and know your place in the world. >> If you don't mind, I'll just make a comment on the funding round we just received. We just received $80 million in net new funds. It was a preemptive interest in investing in the company. Quite honestly, we could have potentially taken more, but the focuses are on executing what we can actually do today. >> More discipline too. The less capital you take-- >> There is that. >> The more discipline. >> There is that, but you know when you think about the growth and the opportunity, in large part for us, it's all about staying pragmatic-focused and executing well on what is ahead of us. >> The product market fit is always one they talk about with the funding, but also it's the sales channels. If you try to compete with sales, say Amazon for instance, others have tried, it's hard. I know a few companies getting bought up by private equity left and right because they just, size wise, can never get there. >> Gus: Right. >> You guys are inside the tornado, as Jeffrey Moore would say, which is kind of the strategy for you guys. You get in the cloud, you've got product discipline. How is it going on the sales side? What are some of the metrics you are seeing? Any success metrics you can share customer success? >> Yeah, absolutely, and you know for us, AWS is a strategic partner and a great partner in terms of the alliance that we have around bring in net new customers to the cloud, working with them, et cetera, so in the last six months we've added 300 net new enterprise customers. That brings our total to well over 4,000 enterprise customers, and we've done that by, again, staying very focused around that first bite, a very simple approach, and then once people start, they see how simple it is, so you had asked about the developer experience, Keith, it is so simple. In some cases what we say in their actual experience is they don't believe us. When Matt was talking about the "ah-hah" moment, once they experience it, they continue to build, and build, and build. >> So the developers, again, we've talked about this because we are at a developer conference, they just want to solve problems. One of the things that we've always kind of harped on developers about, and Matt, you talked about this a little bit with governance, with data governance, GDPR is coming to be fully enforced May of next year. >> Matt: That's right. >> Very serious consequences for companies that don't kind of handle that. Have you guys seen an uptick in conversations around GDPR with customers and how Druva helps to mitigate some of the challenges around GDPR? >> Keith, one of the most amazing things that's come out of GDPR is the rise of this new executive persona, the chief data protection officer. >> John: Oh, another one! >> For a vendor that's in the data protection business, it is wonderful to have a C-level executive responsible for the value that we deliver. >> Some of the penalties is 4% of revenue. >> How many chiefs will there be these days? >> Well that is true, there are a lot of chiefs. >> There's a lot of chiefs in the kitchen. >> There are a lot of chiefs. >> More than Indians. Oh you guys are the-- >> Yeah, I'm going to defend the chief data protection officer. >> Keith: Yeah, we will keep that one. >> I'll keep that one. (laughing) You keep in mind that the risks that people are dealing with, and GDPR is an extension of extending individual rights to the data sets that are collected on them. The idea of the right to be forgotten. >> You guys have challenges not even within the customers, the external customers, but an organization with 75,000 users, they have rights in themselves, so there is this differentiation between protect internal corporate data and that policy, and keeping that data. If I'm a developer searching for data, I'm just searching for data, so how do I control, what's the controls available for making sure that that doesn't go afoul of GDPR? >> Absolutely, so we have phenomenal security capabilities that are built into our product both from an identification point of view giving rights and privileges, as well as protecting that data from any third-party access. All of this information is going to be compliant with these regulations beyond GDPR. There is enormous regulations around data that require us to keep our security levels as high as we go. In fact, we would argue that AWS itself is now typically more secure, more secure than your classic data set. >> Yeah, they've done the work. >> So we are building on top of the AWS security framework which gives you even better security, and because, this is important, it's off-site, logically by conception of the cloud, we also add immutability, so when you think about ransomware, ransomware is not going to crawl up to the cloud in the classic way that you would have the type of infections that have happened. Druva is going to give you the capability to ensure that that data is whole, and you can recover from those types of malware attacks. It's a little bit of a pivot from GDPR, but I think all of this stuff around data risks are related. >> Talking about the government, public sector market, you guys just got FedRAMP approved. >> Yes. >> It's a big certification. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> What does that mean for your business? More customers coming in on the public-sector side? >> Public-sector is off the charts for us. The FedRAMP ATO certification, we are the only data protection vendor that has that, and it gives us the capability to qualify for data protection possibilities within the public-sector. I don't know if, Gus, you want to comment anymore on that. >> John: Visa cross is gonna love that. >> It's a massive market opportunity. It also puts you at a higher level in terms of, obviously, the security capabilities that they went through and tested to give us the ATO, which is the authority to operate in the FedRAMP sector. It opens up a tremendous amount of opportunity. When you look at, kind of, the Fortune one as far as US government, this is a massive opportunity for us. >> Well, save the date in Washington DC. This morning they announced the AWS Public Sector Summit on June 20th and 21st. The CUBE will be there. I've got the verbal. Well, we already have the deal with Theresa Carlson. The CUBE will be there probably with two sets too. That's turned into a re:Invent. It grew from a hotel room two years ago, to a ball room, to now the convention center, and they're expecting again, this year in DC, Amazon Public Sector Summit, everything, nonprofits, gov cloud, huge. >> Yeah, it's amazing. AWS has become the 21st-century operating system, and at first it was for individuals or small businesses, but now it is the enterprise. Look around, right? We are all re-platforming, if you will, to be able to provide this architecture as the best possibility. >> So you're betting on Amazon? >> Absolutely. >> Other clouds? >> So we are a multi-cloud provider. We have a solution that also runs on Microsoft Dejour. There's lots of customers that choose Dejour. They are Microsoft customers. They're customers that enjoy the different data centers that Microsoft offers, but the vast majority of our customers really embrace the AWS solution. >> You'll protect whatever the customer needs. Whatever environment they have, you'll support the major platforms? >> We're gonna support either one, and you've got to realize the idea of different data centers that are localized to different countries give you different soverignty options with Microsoft you may not get with AWS, at least not today. >> Yeah, and same with Google too. Google has not a big presence outside the US. >> That's right. >> So they're limited. >> So data protection is starting to become a catch-all term. The, what, $80 million in funding the last round? >> Gus: Yes. >> It's not just about data protection, but now multi-cloud data mobility. Being able to take my data, my hybrid IT data and move it to where I need to move it to. Can you talk about Druva's capability when it comes to data mobility? >> One of the most popular use cases of the acquisition of the Druva technology is all around MNA. The opportunity to bring in data from a variety of different endpoints and bring their customers new companies that are being acquired into the fold. You have all kinds of governance capabilities you could do on that data, and you could prevent the typical data leakage. The employee turnover, where people basically walk out the door. They take their hard drive with them, or take the computer. It's not being tracked, and you don't know what data was there, and you can't track it. With Druva, you have that data. They can take the hard drive. You know exactly what they took. You have information, and you have saved that IP for the company, and you gained that. If I'm acquiring a company, that information obviously is important to me. >> Thanks Gus, thanks for coming on the CUBE, thanks for the update. Congratulations on all the business success and public sector is right around the corner as well, another growing market. Back up and recovery data protection is hot in the cloud, it's hard to do. These guys have got a great solution in Druva. It's the CUBE bringing you more live coverage. We're taking a short break. We'll be right back with our next guest. Stay with us.

(techno music) >> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's the Cube. Covering Grace Hopper's Celebration of Women in Computing. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of the Grace Hopper Conference here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. We're joined now by Anjali Menon. She is the VP of Technology at Morgan Stanley. Thanks so much for coming on the show. >> My pleasure to be here. >> So I'd love to just tell our viewers a little about your journey as a woman in technology who now works at an investment bank. >> Yes, absolutely. I think it's a very long journey, if you will. It started when I was seven years old. Back in my school we had an extra curricular computer science course, so I signed up for it. And I remember starting out as, you know, someone who was coding in basic. And, you know, it was just very simple things. You draw a line, draw a kite, watch it move across the screen. It was just so exciting for someone of that age. So, you know, I kept at it. I continued to enroll in the same course over the years. So, middle school, high school and then I did my undergraduate in computer science in engineering. And then in 2011 I graduated from NYU with a Masters in Computer Science. And, you know, Morgan Stanley was one of those companies that had showed up during on campus recruitment. And just the feedback that I had heard from my other peers who were already in the company, just, you know, about the work culture at Morgan Stanley. It was just really, really good. So, you know, I joined Morgan Stanley and right now I'm, you know, Assistant Owner. I own the Equities and Options order entry application. So I'm responsible for, you know, the overall design and development. So it's been a really exciting journey. To, uh, you know, Morgan Stanley, yep. >> So you as a woman in technology and now working in finance. >> Yes. >> I mean these are two very male dominated industries. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative) >> That are come together to provide your jobs. >> Yeah. >> How, what is it like to be a woman on the front lines? >> So, you know it's interesting, I fee like a lot of people have, you know, misconceptions about that. You know, about being a woman in tech. But we have a very diverse and inclusive culture at Morgan Stanley. Like I mentioned, I am Assistant Owner for the Equities and Options Order Entry Application. So, you know, when I'm sitting at a table with senior managers, because I'm the subject matter expertise, expert, it's great to, you know, look at them sit and listen to me talk because, you know, I'm the one who's bringing in the information. So it doesn't really matter if you're a woman or a man. What matters is, are you the one with the expertise? Are you the one with the talent, right? And they're going to sit up and listen to you irrespective of your gender. So, you know, that's just the culture at Morgan Stanley. So, uh, yep. >> So now, talking about the culture. And you are here, obviously, trying to recruit bright, young talent at the Grace Hopper Conference. >> Yes, yes. >> What are you hearing from potential employees? What are they looking for in a company? >> What are we looking for in students, or? >> I'm interested in both what Morgan Stanley wants to see out of perspective candidates. >> Mm-hmm (affirmative) >> But also what you're hearing from the recruits themselves in terms of how they want their job to fit into their lives. >> Absolutely, a lot of, one of the recurring questions that I do get when I'm interviewing students is, you know, how do you maintain the whole work life balance? Like you said, finance and tech. It's a very grueling industry, right? So how do you keep that balance? And what's really wonderful is that, you know, you don't have to sacrifice you personal life, or your passion projects, for your work. Me personally, uh me personally, for the last year I've been taking a lot of extra curricular courses. Non credit courses at NYU in film making and photography. Because that's just my passion project. I love telling stories, and I used to be a writer, and I was just looking to explore other mediums for telling stories. So in the last year, since the summer of 2016, I've been taking courses at NYU and it's just been such a great experience then, and I think Morgan Stanley sort of allows you to have that culture. Right? You have your nine to five job and during those hours you're very focused on what you're doing, but, you know, they do give you time outside of that to just, like, work on your passion projects. And it's great that I can find that balance between the two. >> So Morgan Stanley could be a choice employee, employer for a young woman looking for a work life balance. >> Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. >> And now what are you looking for in a potential recruit? What are you telling the young women here at Grace Hopper? >> We are looking for women who are bright and very confident. I feel like all of the interviews that I've done in the last few days, I've met such wonderful young women. And it's really difficult to choose because everyone has their own area of expertise. And you can tell they're very, very intelligent. They love challenges, right? A lot of the questions that I ask are typically around, like, problem solving, and puzzles. And, it's great to see how they can approach it, and deconstruct it. So, it's been really difficult trying to find, it's been really difficult trying to choose one over the other because everyone is just so equally bright, yeah. >> So, how are you, how are you going about this recruitment process? What are, how are you assembling a diverse team? >> So we've been doing a lot of on the spot quizzes. So like once a day we have two problems that are presented. We have students stopping by and they're working it out. We're helping them through the process of, you know, figuring out the solution. And, you know, anyone who stands out, we're pulling them aside, scheduling interviews with them. We are actually also making offers on the spot as well. >> Oh wow, Okay. >> So, that's, that's been a new experience, so, yeah. It's been, we have a lot of interviews already scheduled as well, so , yeah. >> So when you're, in terms of your job, what are the things you are most excited about that you're working on? In terms of the real technical challenges that you're facing? >> Absolutely, so, I work within the capital market space and wealth management. Our clients are financial advisors, right, so, my job, when I came in three or four years ago, was, I wanted to enhance the order entry experience for the equities and options product. And essentially what we were looking to do was enable the FAs with the tool, that would enable them to do their jobs efficiently and quickly. So the last couple of years, we've been building an equities trading platform that would enable them to do just that. And it's just really exciting to see what the legacy system did and what the new system does and the progress that we've made. And we just hear really good feedback from the field as well. Like, our clients, the FAs, Financial Advisors, who are using the new system. It's great to hear things like, "Oh, I love that I can do my job so quickly. It's just like one or two clicks and I can do so much more than the legacy system.". So it's really exciting. >> So what is the difference there? What are you enabling to happen so much more speedily than happened in the legacy system? >> So, our legacy system was a single order entry application. While the new system allows them to submit multiple orders across securities, across accounts in a single, in a single, operation. So what would have taken, you know, minutes to submit say ten orders, is now just takes a few seconds. So, it's just a faster enhanced order entry experience. And I love that I was a part of that, that journey, yup. >> So, so speed is one thing. What are some other priorities that you have going forward in terms of enhancing the products that you provide to financial advisors? >> Just be able to efficiently, you know, submit orders as well. So with respect to, you know, just submitting multiple orders going across securities. Or even like quickly creating tickets. With the legacy system it was a lot of like form filling. You start, you entered the account, you entered the security and you fill out all the other details. But we've enabled them with quick ways to create tickets. So, in just a few keystrokes, with, like, semantic based entries, they can create like, multiple tickets and submit the orders. So, just being able to efficiently do their job as well was one of the key things that we were looking to deliver. >> And are you focused at all on the user, the sort of the design user experience element too? >> So we do have a dedicated user experience team. But since I started off as a front end developer, I did work very closely with them, to help, like build out that interface. So, yeah, we do have a dedicated team. It was great to actually work with them to help build that out, yup. >> Great. And finally, I just am curious about your thoughts about this Grace Hopper Conference. This is, is this your first time? >> It's my first time at Grace Hopper. >> A newbie here. >> It's been overwhelming. I remember walking in yesterday and I could see a sea of people and it's been wonderful, yeah. >> Great, great. So we'll see you here next year? >> Absolutely. >> Excellent. Well Anjali thank you so much, it's been a pleasure talking to you, having you on the show. >> Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. We'll have more from the Grace Hopper Conference in just a little bit. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of the Grace Hopper Conference in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We're joined by Morgan Berman. She is the founder and CEO of MilkCrate, a platform that measures and grows social and environmental impact. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> So I want to, start off by telling us a little bit about MilkCrate. >> Sure. So we're a tech company. We got our start about four years ago. We've grown and changed a lot in that time, but what we really focus on doing is helping big organizations either for- or non-profit, engage people in social and environmental impact in a game app. And we build custom versions of this app based on the goals of each client. So whether it's a big company that wants to engage employees in volunteering and riding a bike to work, or a nonprofit that has kids that they're trying to get to go to art museums, and encourage them to go more often, we can gamify both of those behaviors in unique apps and then those clients have their own engagement experience for hitting those goals. >> Well, that's a really neat idea. Tell me how you came up with it. >> Well, like I said, it's changed and grown over time. Originally it was my own personal desire to grow my impact in the world. I grew up in this kind of crunchy, kind of wonderful bubble, I guess, where my mom would only buy food from the farmer's market, she was actually a farm-to-table chef, one of the first female chefs in Philly. She wrote books rating and reviewing thrift shopping, so I grew up with like fresh local food, thrift shopping, there was a community garden behind us. >> She was a hipster before her time. >> Exactly, my mom's like the original hipster. And my dad was also an entrepreneur. So when I moved to West Philadelphia, which is like the crunchiest part of the city by far, I was trying to figure out how to ride a bike in the city for the first time, and how do you compost with worms when you live in an apartment and you don't have a backyard. Where's my nearest food co-op so I can start feeding myself this way? And my interest grew and grew as I started learning about things like climate change. And I went to a Bill McKibben talk about fossil fuel divestment, and there were these children in Haiti holding a sign that said Connect The Dots Your Actions Affect Me. And it really hit home how my privilege as this western world person with this degree and all of these things that most people don't have that every choice I made about my life was having a direct impact on someone on the other side of the world, or often not even that far from me. And so I wanted to figure out how to live my life in a way that my values weren't conflicting with my actions. So I applied for graduate school in sustainable design to originally, the idea was to help design sustainable buildings but I quickly learned that even though I had this degree, architects weren't going to take me seriously. And so I pivoted and took all my extra-curriculars in Industrial Design and Interactive Media. And I had the head of the department for Interactive Media actually helping me with the first mock-ups of MilkCrate, which was all about designing an app to help people live their values, particularly around sustainability. And then, after a few years of learning and growing, we actually, Forbes picked us to be one of the five companies on the Forbes Under 30 stage and that catapulted us onto this path of suddenly going from a school project to a startup company that needed to raise money and have a business model. And I was like, what's a business model? So after about two years of learning and growing, we realized that there's this opportunity with big corporations to engage employees in sustainability and that there was a pain point on this enterprise level that we could solve, and yeah. >> And what was this pain point? I mean, I think that's the thing is we can all say it's great for companies to get their employees to ride more bikes and to start a recycling program-- >> But why do they care? >> Yeah! >> And that's what investors would always ask, and I'd be like, ugh! And I had to learn the answer! And the answer is 75% of the S&P 500 issues a CSR Sustainability Report every year, and that has grown exponentially over the last few years. And the reason they do that is because employees want to work for a company that's making a difference. 45% of millennials would take a 15% cut or more in their salary to work for a company that makes a difference in the world. The reason that B Corps are growing exponentially around the world, all of these things, of business is a force for good in the world, it's the norm now. Whether you realize it or not, that's what's driving people to work for a company, to stay for a company, for customers to buy a product from a company. That's how people are starting to make their important life choices. And so now companies invest in having a Corporate Social Responsibility, not only a director, but a whole department. And they're, what we learned when we were researching how to figure out this whole business model was that CSR directors, their top three pain points are engaging employees, tracking and analytics, and having a scalable, cost-effective program across the whole company. So we realized our product could do all three of those things, and I was like, oh, I think that's a business model, when you solve the major pain points for an important corporate role in the world. So that's how we started moving in that direction and we started getting validation, and then we realized we also could work with nonprofits when they started reaching out. And so now we're kind of filling both of those needs that are a little bit different. >> So you're gamifying, making it into a game, making it fun for employees, or clients or customers or whoever the target audience is. So what kind of rewards are they getting for this? How do you light up their bulbs? >> I'm actually giving a lecture on this at Warden on Monday, so it's top of mind. You've got intrinsic and extrinsic motivation, right? There are the things that you do because they make you feel like you're being your authentic self, where you're expressing your values and that lights up your brain in a way that nothing else ever will. Then you have your external, extrinsic motivations, things like prizes, but also social acknowledgement. Seeing that you are functioning the way your peers are, that sense of I am not alone, or I am normal, that's a really important validation as a human. So seeing that you're in the top 10 or that you're above average, that feels good. So we have things like your rank and how you're doing on your team and how your team's doing in comparison to other teams in your MilkCrate community. And then there's the actual rewards. So university clients of ours have given tickets to sporting events, or credit to the bookstore. Corporate clients, gift certificates to local, sustainable restaurants and coffee shops near the headquarters. We're actually now partnering with an amazing B Corp company, United By Blue, that has ethically made and environmentally thoughtful products like mugs and candles and things like that. So, it depends on the client what their goals are, what their budget is, what motivates those people. But it really, the beginning part, when you first download the app, the first couple of challenges are things like answer this question about how important is to you to live your values? So you get them thinking in that mindset about why they're using this app. >> Priming them to-- >> Priming them, exactly! Getting them in that headspace. That's the most important thing you can do in the beginning is just to help them understand why they're using this, and then the rewards are almost, they're a distant second. >> Okay, okay. So you've also, you are a B Corp, and are there many other B Corps here at Grace Hopper? I mean, what's your experience there? As you said, it is now the norm that the business is functioning this way. But B Corps are still a minority, relatively speaking. >> Right, there's a lot of room for growth there, yeah. I think having the CSR report is the norm, but doing everything you possibly can, there's still a lot of room in that department. One thing I saw that I loved was that instead of giving out swag, Facebook was actually donating money to nonprofits that help women code. I was like, that's great! So I haven't seen any B Corps here that I've, yeah, I don't think I've seen other than ROAR For Good-- >> Which we had on the show earlier. >> Yes, so Yasmine and I are definitely two Philly B Corps. I would love to see more tech companies go in that direction but yeah, there's a lot more growth that needs to happen. There are about, I think, I actually just got to meet one of the other founders of B Lab that does B Corp certification. He gave a great presentation answering in more detail why do companies do this? It was amazing how many stats he had. It was like yes! But 2,300 for B Corps and I think something like 16,000 benefit corporations. So they're slightly different things, but it's a growing movement for sure. >> So talk a little bit about your experience at this Grace Hopper Conference. It's day one, we're near the end of day one. How would you describe the energy, the atmosphere, what's your feeling about being here in Orlando? >> So I've heard over and over again people saying it's just so good to be in a room full of women who are all doing awesome things. And it keeps reminding me of when I went and saw Wonder Woman with my parents. And I remember sitting in the theater and going like this and being like oh, my cheeks are wet. Oh, I think I'm crying. Oh, I think I'm having feelings. I think it's because I've literally never seen on a screen several dozen, or hundreds of women just being powerful, physical beings with like, aggression and skill, and it having nothing to do with sexuality or being attractive. And it was just the first time I'd seen that in my 32 years of existence. And to just, there's something so powerful about having that icon, that image reflected back at you to see, oh, if you can do that, I can do that. And actually, over the last 13 months, I've been training in Brazilian jujitsu and competing, and to see women being physical, strong warriors, and only women, and it not being sexualized, it was like oh, that's the feeling I get when I compete, and when I'm with my teammates, my female teammates. Anyways, I think that's kind of what's happening here is that sense of like, these are my people, and we are doing amazing things, and to just see each other when historically, you never got to see a room like this. I think it's an unfortunately necessary experience to be reminded that we are out there, we are doing this, and it's growing. >> And there is a sisterhood and the belonging that we talked about earlier, too. >> I mean, you see men who don't seem particularly uncomfortable here. They can kind of, they're like okay with this. And they get to kind of know what it's like to be in the minority. And I kind of want to ask them, how are you feeling? What's this like for you? But like, to see everyone flipping the ratio and we're all good, so that means if we could get somewhere more like parity I think that could be pretty magical. >> So as a female founder, a female technologist, what is your advice for the younger versions of you who maybe are just graduating from college, or maybe even younger than that and sort of wondering, can I even do that? Can I aspire to be that? >> You absolutely can. And I gave some advice at the end of my session earlier. And my two bits of advice were detach yourself from any negative association with the word Failure. Try and come up with a new word for yourself if you need to because learning and growing is what you're going to do your whole life, and so taking risks, that's what you need to be doing every single day. And so pushing against those things that scare you. And the second thing was to find a mentor, because no one piece of advice I can give is ever going to fill the role that having a mentor can give you over the course of a career, or even just for a few years. The amount that I've grown in just the last four years of building my company with some of my mentors, it's incredible. So, find someone who reminds you of who you want to be, and then latch on to them and get them to help kind of carry you along. >> Great. Well, Morgan, it's been so fun talking to you. >> Thank you, this has been great. >> Thanks for joining us. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, we'll have more from the Grace Hopper Conference in Orlando just after this. (rippling music)