(bright upbeat music) >> Hey, good morning from Las Vegas. It's Lisa Martin and Paul Gillin here. We are on day three of AWS re:Invent. We started Monday night, we went all day yesterday, we are going all day today and all day tomorrow. The amount of content coming at you from theCUBE, great, interesting, fascinating conversations with AWS, its customers, its ecosystem partners is incredible. Paul, what's your take so far on re:Invent? We've been here two and a half days. >> Well, it's just a fire hose. Like I've said before, this morning's keynote was about was about ML, machine learning and AI, and I stopped counting at 15 new announcements during about a 90 minute keynote, it's just one thing after another. And that's the nature of re:Invent, you know? It's always a showcase for new stuff. And they talk about customers, you talk about customers, I love it when we have a chance to talk to customers on theCUBE as we are about to do. >> We are about to talk to one of the nation's leading digital banks, you know them well, Capital One. Please welcome, Lo Li, Managing Vice President of Customer Digital Experience and Payments. Thank you so much, Lo, for joining us. >> Why, thank you, I'm glad to be here. >> Talk a little bit about your role where it fits within the organization, what it encompasses? >> Sure, yeah. So, I lead the retail bank technology organization which is a form of, you know, we have teams that lead digital experiences for our consumers. We look after agent in-person experiences with their cafes in branches, our call centers and as well as of our MarTech and payments ecosystem. >> So you're new to Capital One, in the last less than a year, you know, we all know it, we love it, we know the tagline, what's in your wallet? I think we can all recite that. It's as I said in the opening, it's one of the nation's leading digital banks and technology is really core to its business strategy and delivering value to customers. What attracted you to Capital One and talk about it really as a digital bank that delivers all that value. >> Of course. Yeah, so, you know, I spent 20 years of my career in a digital space in retail, and fashion and hospitality. And that is what I love about IT and the industry that I'm in and what I do, which is bringing really great solutions and products to consumers and getting them excited about an experience and a brand. So I knew early on in my career I was attracted to really great brands and brands that wanted to innovate and disrupt the consumer space. So when Capital One gave me an opportunity, I couldn't be happier, right? This is an incredible bank, we have an incredible story, we're a young bank and yet we are very much on the leading edge of a digital bank experience. >> And you were in an interesting place because as we know retail banking is declining or at least bank branches are in decline. More and more people want to do their banking on their mobile apps or through their computers, particularly younger customers. And so you're having to manage all this, what are you doing? How are you tracking to these demographic changes accelerated by the pandemic and recreating the customer experience through multiple channels? >> Yeah, great question. We want to give our consumers an omnichannel experience irrespective of, you know, the few that still want to go into branches or perhaps they want to experience a cafe, and while there meet with one of our branch ambassadors to talk about their banking, we have consumers that want to go digital. So what we do is that we make sure that we're looking after the consumer holistically, irrespective of the channel. So whether they call into the call center because they need servicing or if they're physically present or they want to carry that on digitally, we make sure that we create super personalized custom experiences. We also work with a bunch of designers that are thinking through, you know, the life of a consumer now and their relationship to a bank. It is, to your point, it is no longer a branch, you know? That is a ubiquitous experience that we're by large knowing that we have to figure out and rethink. So, we're very lucky to have great designers that work with us and work on what is that experience that we want our consumers to have, from the pastries and the coffee, and the experience of being with an ambassador and how we can lead them through our iPads and digital experiences to continue to stay with us and for us to service them. >> You know, if we think about how much banking has changed especially in the last couple of years, when suddenly you couldn't get into a branch, even if you wanted to, it's amazing how we have this expectation that on my phone I can do any transaction I want in real time, I'm going to be able to see my balance, I can transfer money, I can make a payment. And we don't think about the technology on the back end but it's absolutely critical to powering that experience. >> Yeah. >> Talk about how you're doing that and is there customer feedback in that process? >> There is, but that's music to my ears by the way. The fact that you don't think about it tells me we're doing something really right, right? So first and foremost, we are super hypervigilant about security, that is top of mind, we are well managed. The cloud has enabled us to create these infrastructures that are highly secure, that are scalable and that allows us to really focus on innovation. So we use our mobile platform and our apps in that way, right? We know that this is a scalable, secure platform. We create really great products, we create very custom experiences for you that are relevant to you and your family and we create these digital products that are supposed to meet you where you are. >> But we certainly have, you know, this expectation that I'm going to get what I want, it's going to be relevant, it's going to be timely. If not, I'm going to pick up, not the phone, I'm going to go on social media and make a complaint. So from a brand reputation perspective, you guys, what you're doing is clearly going in the right direction. >> Yeah, yeah. Look, we take our bank voice and the voice of the customer extremely seriously. So, we have a really large infrastructure from a bank operations perspective. We have our bank voice agents that work with us that give us kind of really real-time feedback from our customers. You know, by the time you pick up the phone and call usually something has gone really wrong, right? So, we make sure that we stay lockstep with what our first level agents are hearing. Then we also look into our feedbacks, we have obviously ways to look into our mobile app. We look at all the reviews that we have and incorporate that into how we think about our product and how we invest and innovate on them. >> Before we turned on the cameras, you said an amazing thing. Capital One doesn't have any data centers anymore, doesn't have any mainframes anymore, it is fully in the cloud. Understanding that you weren't there in those old days but how does that change the way you think about new features, about technology, new technology developments for the customer when you don't have that legacy to drag along with you? >> It's incredible, right? Our cost efficiency, our production efficiency, how we think about going to the market now is really getting us to focus on the right parts of that product. We don't have to carry a lot of the technical debt, we don't carry that old infrastructure. So the way we develop, the way we design, the way we go to market is a lot faster than it ever was. >> Well, and the culture is there, the cultural mindset is there to be able to do that. I mean, if you think about who you compete with some of these institutions that have been around for a hundred years that also have to transform and digitize 'cause the customers expect it. That has to be a seamless process but their culture also has to be there because changing from being On-prem data centers to being completely in the cloud, it's a big change. >> Yeah, actually, you hit it, right? The cloud transformation is big, and hard and sticky. You got to move these workloads, you got to make 'em native, you got to deploy. But to your point, the harder part really is the culture, right? Because the cloud will then unleash productivity, it will unleash continuous improvement. It will bring product partners along the ride because they have to think differently about what they want to go to the market with, how they think about the cost of those units, how they think about cloud. So, you know, in my opinion, Capital One has done an incredible job bringing that entire, the entire organization along this cloud transformation including our culture, our processes, and our people. >> I know Capital One is proud of the work it's been doing in AI and machine learning. Can you talk about from the retail banking perspective, how is machine learning being applied to improve the customer experience? >> Yeah, well, you know, as you know, AI and machine learning is the heart of the bank, is the heart of Capital One. When we started in the early 90s, we were the only bank that was really trying to challenge how we use data to provide better products for our consumers, and that is ingrained in our DNA and everything that we do. So if you were to look at bank, we would start with, you know, from the time you are authenticating yourself, how we think about fraud and how do we capture bad actors, all the way to if you were to call into a call center, we use a lot of natural language processing models to make sure that we assess your sentiment, we give you the support that you need, and then of course, use that to learn more about how we service you. >> Interesting, I'm just wondering, do you think about Capital One as a technology company that does banking or a bank that is powered by technology? >> We are a technology company, and we happen to also have a bank. >> Lisa: I love that. What are some of the things that you've heard and seen at the show? Obviously, we're hearing numbers between 55 and 70,000 people here. It's crazy. And we're only getting a snapshot of that because here we are at Venetian Expo and the conference is going on all over the strip. But what are some of the things that you've heard from AWS that excite you about the partnership going forward? >> You know, I'll be honest, one of my happiest, proud moments, when we're talking about Lambda SnapStart yesterday, we actually, our team that is here today was part of the first beta of bringing in Lambda SnapStart. And we're super excited because it helps propel our serverless agenda. You know, we're continued to transform into the cloud. So, we have a lot of these partnership opportunities that, you know, make me super proud. >> Well follow up on serverless because to a lot of people, it's a concept that they don't really understand how to put it to practice. How is serverless a step forward? What has it enabled you to do that you couldn't otherwise do? >> Wow, a bunch. I think first and foremost, it helps us stay, you know, very well managed, security wise, right? It allows us to create automation and it takes away a lot of the heavy lifting that our engineers would have to do otherwise. And the byproduct of that is that we get to go focus on really fun, innovative ideas, and we get to go work on product development. We're taking a lot of the grit work of the management of the servers out of the engineer's hand and automating them. >> Banking, of course, one of the most regulated industries on the planet, has Cloud been able to help you in that respect? >> Yes. Yes it has. Look, we are in a regulated space which means everything we do has a ton of scrutiny, for the right reasons. So we actually built it into our design, so our design, our products, we design our platforms with security in mind, with the regulations in mind and make it where it's less of a thought, right? So, we obviously spend a lot of time from a risk posture helping our associates understand, really respecting the responsibility that we have to look after everybody's assets, right? Like it's, what a more incredible job than that? So, we spend a lot of time thinking about what is our risk posture, where is it, you know, from what you would imagine the regular scan vulnerabilities all the way to data protection. And now that we protect that data in Fly, like they're all things that is our number one job and we spend a ton of time focused on it. >> That's good, it's very complex but security is a topic we discuss regularly. We've seen the threat landscape change so dramatically in the last couple of years. Bad actors are getting far more sophisticated. They're leveraging the technology but when it comes to banking as Paul was talking about, from a regulations perspective, from an end customer perspective, we have this expectation that you're going to keep my data secure because nobody wants to be the next headline. >> Lo: Yes, that's right. That's right, and look, we are getting, we're getting smarter as well, right? So we are able to detect and monitor and go after the bad actors faster. We're doing it in a way that allows us configurability, it gives us time, it gives us speed, but at the same time we also work as a network, right? So a lot of our banks, we, you know, in some ways share a lot of this information to make sure that we're all going after a common enemy. >> Capital One recently launched a software company, Capital One Software, which is a relatively unusual move by a financial services organization. How has that affected the thinking at the company about what the company is and what other opportunities there might be outside of pure banking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Capital One Software is a very exciting new line of business. I think the team that is there is doing some really incredible, innovative work. But you know what's really interesting is they were talking about our new product SlingShot, it was born out of our needs, right? We knew that we needed to have better governance around our data. We created really great tools and it was very obvious that there was a commercial applicability there. And that is how we will continue to operate, right? As a bank, we're all in the cloud, we're all in in the cloud. It will give us the ability to start sharing some of these best practices. And I think the best is yet to come, I think we got some really good stuff in the pipeline. >> Lisa: Anything you can share in the-- >> No. >> Lisa: No? Tight lips. >> Tight lips. >> Excellent, well, last couple of questions. What's the main theme here? When people walk into the Venetian Expo and they see Capital One next to all these tech companies, what's the main theme that Capital One wants to get across to the greater community? >> Yeah, look, our mission is to change banking for good, it always has been our mission. We're very fortunate to be in a position to be tech innovators, and we're fortunate to disrupt, and that's what I want people to get out of it. >> Excellent, my last question for you, kind of continuing on this theme. If you had, you were going to have the opportunity to create new branding and it's going to go in the cafes and it's going to be like a little billboard inside about Capital One being a technology company that does banking. What do you think that that billboard, that sign would say? >> I think I'm going to stick with the change banking for good. I mean, that really is at the heart of our mission. >> Paul: It's a nice double message too, yeah. >> Yeah, with technology, with disruption, ultimately that's where our hearts and minds are at. >> Awesome. Lo, it's been great to have you on the program. Thank you for sharing what you're doing at Capital One, how you're working with AWS and also emerging technologies like AI and ML to really create a seamless digital customer experience. We really appreciate your time and your insights. >> Thank you. >> All right, for our guest and for Paul Gillin I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live emerging and enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: theCUBE presents KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2022, brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to Valencia, Spain, KubeCon, CloudNativeCon Europe 2022. I'm Keith Townsend, your host. And we're continuing the conversations around ecosystem cloud native, 7,500 people here, 170 plus show for sponsors. It is for open source conference, I think the destination. I might even premise that this may be, this may eventually roll to the biggest tech conference in the industry, maybe outside of AWS re:Invent. My next guest is Nick van Wiggeren. >> Wiggeren. >> VP engineering of PlanetScale. Nick, I'm going to start off the conversation right off the bat PlanetScale cloud native database, why do we need another database? >> Well, why don't you need another database? I mean, are you happy with yours? Is anyone happy with theirs? >> That's a good question. I don't think anyone is quite happy with, I don't know, I've never seen a excited database user, except for guys with really (murmurs) guys with great beards. >> Yeah. >> Keith: Or guys with gray hair maybe. >> Yeah. Outside of the dungeon I think... >> Keith: Right. >> No one is really is happy with their database, and that's what we're here to change. We're not just building the database, we're actually building the whole kind of start to finish experience, so that people can get more done. >> So what do you mean by getting more done? Because MySQL has been the underpinnings of like massive cloud database deployments. >> 100% >> It has been the de-facto standard. >> Nick: Yep. >> For cloud databases. >> Nick: Yep. >> What is PlanetScale doing in enabling us to do that I can't do with something like a MySQL or a SQL server? >> Great question. So we are MySQL compatible. So under the hood it's a lot of the MySQL you know and love. But on top of that we've layered workflows, we've layered scalability, we've layered serverless. So that you can get all of the the parts of the MySQL, that dependability, the thing that people have used for 20, 30 years, right? People don't even know a world before MySQL. But then you also get this ability to make schema changes faster. So you can kind of do your work quicker get to the business objectives faster. You can scale farther. So when you get to your MySQL and you say, well, can we handle adding this one feature on top? Can we handle the user growth we've got? You don't have to worry about that either. So it's kind of the best of both worlds. We've got one foot in history and we've got one foot in the new kind of cloud native database world. We want to give everyone the best of both. >> So when I think of serverless because that's the buzzy world. >> Yeah. >> But when I think of serverless I think about developers being able to write code. >> Yep. >> Deploy the code, not worry about VM sizes. >> Yep. >> Amount of disk space. >> Yep. >> CPU, et cetera. But we're talking about databases. >> Yep. >> I got to describe what type of disk I want to use. I got to describe the performance levels. >> Yep. >> I got all the descriptive stuff that I have to do about infrastructures. Databases are not... >> Yep. >> Keith: Serverless. >> Yep. >> They're the furthest thing from it. >> So despite what the name may say, I can guarantee you PlanetScale, your PlanetScale database does run on at least one server, usually more than one. But the idea is exactly what you said. So especially when you're starting off, when you're first beginning your, let's say database journey. That's a word I use a lot. The furthest thing from your mind is, how many CPUs do I need? How many disk iOS do I need? How much memory do I need? What we want you to be able to do is get started on focusing on shipping your code, right? The same way that Lambda, the same way that Kubernetes, and all of these other cloud native technologies just help people get done what they want to get done. PlanetScale is the same way, you want a database, you sign up, you click two buttons, you've got a database. We'll handle scaling the disk as you grow, we'll handle giving you more resources. And when you get to a spot where you're really starting to think about, my database has got hundreds of gigabytes or petabytes, terabytes, that's when we'll start to talk to you a little bit more about, hey, you know it really does run on a server, we ain't got to help you with the capacity planning, but there's no reason people should have to do that up front. I mean, that stinks. When you want to use a database you want to use a database. You don't want to use, 747 with 27 different knobs. You just want to get going. >> So, also when I think of serverless and cloud native, I think of stateless. >> Yep. >> Now there's stateless with databases, help me reconcile like, when you say it's cloud native. >> Nick: Yep. >> How is it cloud native when I think of cloud native as stateless? >> Yeah. So it's cloud native because it exists where you want it in the cloud, right? No matter where you've deployed your application on your own cloud, on a public cloud, or something like that, our job is to meet you and match the same level of velocity and the same level of change that you've got on your kind of cloud native setup. So there's a lot of state, right? We are your state and that's a big responsibility. And so what we want to do is, we want to let you experiment with the rest of the stateless workloads, and be right there next to you so that you can kind of get done what you need to get done. >> All right. So this concept of clicking two buttons... >> Nick: Yeah. >> And deploying, it's a database. >> Nick: Yep. >> It has to run somewhere. So let's say that I'm in AWS. >> Nick: Yep. >> And I have AWS VPC. What does it look like from a developer's perspective to consume the service? >> Yeah. So we've got a couple of different offerings, and AWS is a great example. So at the very kind of the most basic database unit you click, you get an endpoint, a host name, a password, and the username. You feed that right into your application and it's TLS secure and stuff like that, goes right into the database no problem. As you grow larger and larger, we can use things like AWS PrivateLink and stuff like that, to actually start to integrate more with your AWS environment, all the way over to what we call PlanetScale Managed. Which is where we actually deploy your data plan in your AWS account. So you give us some permissions and we kind of create a sub-account and stuff like that. And we can actually start sending pods, and hold clusters and stuff like that into your AWS account, give you a PrivateLink, so that everything looks like it's kind of wrapped up in your ownership but you still get the same kind of PlanetScale cloud experience, cloud native experience. >> So how do I make calls to the database? I mean, do I have to install a new... >> Nick: Great question. >> Like agent, or do some weird SQL configuration on my end? Or like what's the experience? >> Nope, we just need MySQL. Same way you'd go, install MySQL if you're on a Mac or app store to install MySQL on analytics PC, you just username, password, database name, and stuff like that, you feed that into your app and it just works. >> All right. So databases are typically security. >> Nick: Yep. >> When my security person. >> Nick: Yep. >> Sees a new database. >> Nick: Yep. >> Oh, they get excited. They're like, oh my job... >> Nick: I bet they do. >> My job just got real easy. I can find like eight or nine different findings. >> Right. >> How do you help me with compliance? >> Yeah. >> And answering these tough security questions from security? >> Great question. So security's at the core of what we do, right? We've got security people ourselves. We do the same thing for all the new vendors that we onboard. So we invest a lot. For example, the only way you can connect to a PlanetScale database even if you're using PrivateLink, even if you're not touching the public internet at all, is over TLS secured endpoint, right? From the very first day, the very first beta that we had we knew not a single byte goes over the internet that's not encrypted. It's encrypted at rest, we have audit logging, we do a ton internally as well to make sure that, what's happening to your database is something you can find out. The favorite thing that I think though is all your schema changes are tracked on PlanetScale, because we provide an entire workflow for your schema changes. We actually have like a GitHub Polar Request style thing, your security folks can actually look and say, what changes were made to the database day in and day out. They can go back and there's a full history of that log. So you actually have, I think better security than a lot of other databases where you've got to build all these tools and stuff like that, it's all built into PlanetScale. >> So, we started out the conversation with two clicks but I'm a developer. >> Nick: Yeah. >> And I'm developing a service at scale. >> Yep. >> I want to have a SaaS offering. How do I automate the deployment of the database and the management of the database across multiple customers? >> Yeah, so everything is API driven. We've got an API that you can use supervision databases to make schema changes, to make whatever changes you want to that database. We have an API that powers our website, the same API that customers can use to kind of automate any part of the workflow that they want. There's actually someone who did talk earlier using, I think, wwww.crossplane.io, or they can use Kubernetes custom resource definitions to provision PlanetScale databases completely automatically. So you can even do it as part of your standard deployment workflow. Just create a PlanetScale database, create a password, inject it in your app, all automatically. >> So Nick, as I'm thinking about scale. >> Yep. >> I'm thinking about multiple customers. >> Nick: Yep. >> I have a successful product. >> Nick: Yep. >> And now these customers are coming to me with different requirements. One customer wants to upgrade once every 1/4, another one, it's like, you know what? Just bring it on. Like bring the schema changes on. >> Yep. >> I want the latest features, et cetera. >> Nick: Right. >> How do I manage that with PlanetScale? When I'm thinking about MySQL it's a little, that can be a little difficult. >> Nick: Yeah. >> But how does PlanetScale help me solve that problem? >> Yeah. So, again I think it's that same workflow engine that we've built. So every database has its own kind of deploy queue, its own migration system. So you can automate all these processes and say, on this database, I want to change this schema this way, on this database I'm going to hold off. You can use our API to drive a view into like, well, what's the schema on this database? What's schema on this database? What version am I running on this database? And you can actually bring all that in. And if you were really successful you'd have this single plane of glass where you can see what's the status of all my databases and how are they doing, all powered by kind of the PlanetScale API. >> So we can't talk about databases without talking about backup. >> Nick: Yep. >> And recovery. >> Yep. >> How do I back this thing up and make sure that I can fall back? If someone deleted a table. >> Nick: Yep. >> It happens all the time in production. >> Nick: Yeah, 100%. >> How do I recover from it? >> So there's two pieces to this, and I'm going to talk about two different ways that we can help you solve this problem. One of them is, every PlanetScale database comes with backups built in and we test them fairly often, right? We use these backups. We actually give you a free daily backup on every database 'cause it's important to us as well. We want to be able to restore from backup, we want to be able to do failovers and stuff like that, all that is handled automatically. The other thing though is this feature that we launched in March called the PlanetScale Rewind. And what Rewind is, is actually a schema migration undo button. So let's say, you're a developer you're dropping a table or a column, you mean to drop this, but you drop the other one on accident, or you thought this column was unused but it wasn't. You know when you do something wrong, you cause an incident and you get that sick feeling in your stomach. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I've pulled a drive that was written not ready file and it was horrible. >> Exactly. And you kind of start to go, oh man, what am I going to do next? Everyone watching this right now is probably squirming in their seat a bit, you know the feeling. >> Yeah, I know the feeling >> Well, PlanetScale gives you an undo button. So you can click, undo migration, for 30 minutes after you do the migration and we'll revert your schema with all the data in it back to what your database looked like before you did that migration. Drop a column on accident, drop a table on accident, click the Rewind button, there's all the data there. And, the new rights that you've taken while that's happened are there as well. So it's not just a restore to a point in time backup. It's actually that we've replicated your rights sent them to both the old and the new schema, and we can get you right back to where you started, downtime solved. >> Both: So. >> Nick: Go ahead. >> DBAs are DBAs, whether they've become now reformed DBAs that are cloud architects, but they're DBAs. So there's a couple of things that they're going to want to know, one, how do I get my zero back up in my hands? >> Yeah. >> I want my, it's MySQL data. >> Nick: Yeah. >> I want my MySQL backup. >> Yeah. So you can just take backups off the database yourself the same way that you're doing today, right? MySQL dump, MySQL backup, and all those kinds of things. If you don't trust PlanetScale, and look, I'm all about backups, right? You want them in two different data centers on different mediums, you can just add on your own backup tools that you have right now and also use that. I'd like you to trust that PlanetScale has the backups as well. But if you want to keep doing that and run your own system, we're totally cool with that as well. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, I recommend it. You never have too many backups. >> So in a moment we're going to run Kube clock. So get your... >> Okay, all right. >> You know, stand tall. >> All right. >> I'll get ready. I'm going to... >> Nick: I'm tall, I'm tall. >> We're both tall. The last question before Kube clock. >> Nick: Yeah. >> It is, let's talk a little nerve knobs. >> Nick: Okay. >> The reform DBA. >> Nick: Yeah. >> They want, they're like, oh, this query ran a little bit slow. I know I can squeeze a little bit more out of that. >> Nick: Yeah. >> Who do they talk to? >> Yeah. So that's a great question. So we provide you some insights on the product itself, right? So you can take a look and see how are my queries performing and stuff like that. Our goal, our job is to surface to you all the metrics that you need to make that decision. 'Cause at the end of the day, a reform DBA or not it is still a skill to analyze the performance of a MySQL query, run and explain, kind of figure all that out. We can't do all of that for you. So we want to give you the information you need either knowledge or you know, stuff to learn whatever it is because some of it does have to come back to, what's my schema? What's my query? And how can I optimize it? I'm missing an index and stuff like that. >> All right. So, you're early adopter of the Kube clock. >> Okay. >> I have to, people say they're ready. >> Nick: Ooh, okay. >> All the time people say they're ready. >> Nick: Woo. >> But I'm not quite sure that they're ready. >> Nick: Well, now I'm nervous. >> So are you ready? >> Do I have any other choice? >> No, you don't. >> Nick: Then I am. >> But are you ready? >> Sure, let's go. >> All right. Start the Kube clock. (upbeat music) >> Nick: All right, what do you want me to do? >> Go. >> All right. >> You said you were ready. >> I'm ready, all right, I'm ready. All right. >> Okay, I'll reset. I'll give you, I'll give, see people say they're ready. >> All right. You're right. You're right. >> Start the Kube clock, go. >> Okay. Are you happy with how your database works? Are you happy with the velocity? Are you happy with what your engineers and what your teams can do with their database? >> Follow the dream not the... Well, follow the green... >> You got to be. >> Not the dream. >> You got to be able to deliver. At the end of the day you got to deliver what the business wants. It's not about performance. >> You got to crawl before you go. You got to crawl, you got to crawl. >> It's not just about is my query fast, it's not just about is my query right, it's about, are my customers getting what they want? >> You're here, you deserve a seat at the table. >> And that's what PlanetScale provides, right? PlanetScale... >> Keith: Ten more seconds. >> PlanetScale is a tool for getting done what you need to get done as a business. That's what we're here for. Ultimately, we want to be the best database for developing software. >> Keith: Two, one. >> That's it. End it there. >> Nick, you took a shot, I'm buying it. Great job. You know, this is fun. Our jobs are complex. >> Yep. >> Databases are hard. >> Yep. >> It is the, where your organization keeps the most valuable assets that you have. >> Nick: A 100%. >> And we are having these tough conversations. >> Nick: Yep. >> Here in Valencia, you're talking to the leader in tech coverage. From Valencia, Spain, I'm Keith Townsend, and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(gentle melody) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of AWS Summit in San Francisco, California. Events are back. AWS Summit in New York City this summer, theCUBE will be there as well. Check us out there. I'm glad to have events back. It's great to have of everyone here. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Dr. Matt Wood is with me, CUBE alumni, now VP of Business Analytics Division of AWS. Matt, great to see you. >> Thank you, John. It's great to be here. I appreciate it. >> I always call you Dr. Matt Wood because Andy Jackson always says, "Dr. Matt, we would introduce you on the arena." (Matt laughs) >> Matt: The one and only. >> The one and only, Dr. Matt Wood. >> In joke, I love it. (laughs) >> Andy style. (Matt laughs) I think you had walk up music too. >> Yes, we all have our own personalized walk up music. >> So talk about your new role, not a new role, but you're running the analytics business for AWS. What does that consist of right now? >> Sure. So I work. I've got what I consider to be one of the best jobs in the world. I get to work with our customers and the teams at AWS to build the analytics services that millions of our customers use to slice dice, pivot, better understand their data, look at how they can use that data for reporting, looking backwards. And also look at how they can use that data looking forward, so predictive analytics and machine learning. So whether it is slicing and dicing in the lower level of Hadoop and the big data engines, or whether you're doing ETL with Glue, or whether you're visualizing the data in QuickSight or building your models in SageMaker. I got my fingers in a lot of pies. >> One of the benefits of having CUBE coverage with AWS since 2013 is watching the progression. You were on theCUBE that first year we were at Reinvent in 2013, and look at how machine learning just exploded onto the scene. You were involved in that from day one. It's still day one, as you guys say. What's the big thing now? Look at just what happened. Machine learning comes in and then a slew of services come in. You've got SageMaker, became a hot seller right out of the gate. The database stuff was kicking butt. So all this is now booming. That was a real generational change over for database. What's the perspective? What's your perspective on that's evolved? >> I think it's a really good point. I totally agree. I think for machine learning, there's sort of a Renaissance in machine learning and the application of machine learning. Machine learning as a technology has been around for 50 years, let's say. But to do machine learning right, you need like a lot of data. The data needs to be high quality. You need a lot of compute to be able to train those models and you have to be able to evaluate what those models mean as you apply them to real world problems. And so the cloud really removed a lot of the constraints. Finally, customers had all of the data that they needed. We gave them services to be able to label that data in a high quality way. There's all the compute you need to be able to train the models. And so where you go? And so the cloud really enabled this Renaissance with machine learning. And we're seeing honestly a similar Renaissance with data and analytics. If you look back five to ten years, analytics was something you did in batch, your data warehouse ran an analysis to do reconciliation at the end of the month, and that was it. (John laughs) And so that's when you needed it. But today, if your Redshift cluster isn't available, Uber drivers don't turn up, DoorDash deliveries don't get made. Analytics is now central to virtually every business, and it is central to virtually every business's digital transformation. And being able to take that data from a variety of sources, be able to query it with high performance, to be able to actually then start to augment that data with real information, which usually comes from technical experts and domain experts to form wisdom and information from raw data. That's kind of what most organizations are trying to do when they kind of go through this analytics journey. >> It's interesting. Dave Velanta and I always talk on theCUBE about the future. And you look back, the things we're talking about six years ago are actually happening now. And it's not hyped up statement to say digital transformation is actually happening now. And there's also times when we bang our fists on the table saying, say, "I really think this is so important." And David says, "John, you're going to die on that hill." (Matt laughs) And so I'm excited that this year, for the first time, I didn't die on that hill. I've been saying- >> Do all right. >> Data as code is the next infrastructure as code. And Dave's like, "What do you mean by that?" We're talking about how data gets... And it's happening. So we just had an event on our AWS startups.com site, a showcase for startups, and the theme was data as code. And interesting new trends emerging really clearly, the role of a data engineer, right? Like an SRE, what an SRE did for cloud, you have a new data engineering role because of the developer onboarding is massively increasing, exponentially, new developers. Data science scientists are growing, but the pipelining and managing and engineering as a system, almost like an operating system. >> Kind of as a discipline. >> So what's your reaction to that about this data engineer, data as code? Because if you have horizontally scalable data, you've got to be open, that's hard (laughs), okay? And you got to silo the data that needs to be siloed for compliance and reason. So that's a big policy around that. So what's your reaction to data's code and the data engineering phenomenon? >> It's a really good point. I think with any technology project inside of an organization, success with analytics or machine learning, it's kind of 50% technology and then 50% cultural. And you have often domain experts. Those could be physicians or drug design experts, or they could be financial experts or whoever they might be, got deep domain expertise, and then you've got technical implementation teams. And there's kind of a natural, often repulsive force. I don't mean that rudely, but they just don't talk the same language. And so the more complex a domain and the more complex the technology, the stronger their repulsive force. And it can become very difficult for domain experts to work closely with the technical experts to be able to actually get business decisions made. And so what data engineering does and data engineering is, in some cases a team, or it can be a role that you play. It's really allowing those two disciplines to speak the same language. You can think of it as plumbing, but I think of it as like a bridge. It's a bridge between the technical implementation and the domain experts, and that requires a very disparate range of skills. You've got to understand about statistics, you've got to understand about the implementation, you got to understand about the data, you got to understand about the domain. And if you can put all of that together, that data engineering discipline can be incredibly transformative for an organization because it builds the bridge between those two groups. >> I was advising some young computer science students at the sophomore, junior level just a couple of weeks ago, and I told them I would ask someone at Amazon this question. So I'll ask you, >> Matt: Okay. since you've been in the middle of it for years, they were asking me, and I was trying to mentor them on how do you become a data engineer, from a practical standpoint? Courseware, projects to work on, how to think, not just coding Python, because everyone's coding in Python, but what else can they do? So I was trying to help them. I didn't really know the answer myself. I was just trying to kind of help figure it out with them. So what is the answer, in your opinion, or the thoughts around advice to young students who want to be data engineers? Because data scientists is pretty clear on what that is. You use tools, you make visualizations, you manage data, you get answers and insights and then apply that to the business. That's an application. That's not the standing up a stack or managing the infrastructure. So what does that coding look like? What would your advice be to folks getting into a data engineering role? >> Yeah, I think if you believe this, what I said earlier about 50% technology, 50 % culture, the number one technology to learn as a data engineer is the tools in the cloud which allow you to aggregate data from virtually any source into something which is incrementally more valuable for the organization. That's really what data engineering is all about. It's about taking from multiple sources. Some people call them silos, but silos indicates that the storage is kind of fungible or undifferentiated. That's really not the case. Success requires you to have really purpose built, well crafted, high performance, low cost engines for all of your data. So understanding those tools and understanding how to use them, that's probably the most important technical piece. Python and programming and statistics go along with that, I think. And then the most important cultural part, I think is... It's just curiosity. You want to be able to, as a data engineer, you want to have a natural curiosity that drives you to seek the truth inside an organization, seek the truth of a particular problem, and to be able to engage because probably you're going to some choice as you go through your career about which domain you end up in. Maybe you're really passionate about healthcare, or you're really just passionate about transportation or media, whatever it might be. And you can allow that to drive a certain amount of curiosity. But within those roles, the domains are so broad you kind of got to allow your curiosity to develop and lead you to ask the right questions and engage in the right way with your teams, because you can have all the technical skills in the world. But if you're not able to help the team's truth seek through that curiosity, you simply won't be successful. >> We just had a guest, 20 year old founder, Johnny Dallas who was 16 when he worked at Amazon. Youngest engineer- >> Johnny Dallas is a great name, by the way. (both chuckle) >> It's his real name. It sounds like a football player. >> That's awesome. >> Rock star. Johnny CUBE, it's me. But he's young and he was saying... His advice was just do projects. >> Matt: And get hands on. Yeah. >> And I was saying, hey, I came from the old days where you get to stand stuff up and you hugged on for the assets because you didn't want to kill the project because you spent all this money. And he's like, yeah, with cloud you can shut it down. If you do a project that's not working and you get bad data no one's adopting it or you don't like it anymore, you shut it down, just something else. >> Yeah, totally. >> Instantly abandon it and move on to something new. That's a progression. >> Totally! The blast radius of decisions is just way reduced. We talk a lot about in the old world, trying to find the resources and get the funding is like, all right, I want to try out this kind of random idea that could be a big deal for the organization. I need $50 million and a new data center. You're not going to get anywhere. >> And you do a proposal, working backwards, documents all kinds of stuff. >> All that sort of stuff. >> Jump your hoops. >> So all of that is gone. But we sometimes forget that a big part of that is just the prototyping and the experimentation and the limited blast radius in terms of cost, and honestly, the most important thing is time, just being able to jump in there, fingers on keyboards, just try this stuff out. And that's why at AWS, we have... Part of the reason we have so many services, because we want, when you get into AWS, we want the whole toolbox to be available to every developer. And so as your ideas develop, you may want to jump from data that you have that's already in a database to doing realtime data. And then you have the tools there. And when you want to get into real time data, you don't just have kinesis, you have real time analytics, and you can run SQL against that data. The capabilities and the breadth really matter when it comes to prototyping. >> That's the culture piece, because what was once a dysfunctional behavior. I'm going to go off the reservation and try something behind my boss' back, now is a side hustle or fun project. So for fun, you can just code something. >> Yeah, totally. I remember my first Hadoop projects. I found almost literally a decommissioned set of servers in the data center that no one was using. They were super old. They're about to be literally turned off. And I managed to convince the team to leave them on for me for another month. And I installed Hadoop on them and got them going. That just seems crazy to me now that I had to go and convince anybody not to turn these servers off. But what it was like when you- >> That's when you came up with Elastic MapReduce because you said this is too hard, we got to make it easier. >> Basically yes. (John laughs) I was installing Hadoop version Beta 9.9 or whatever. It was like, this is really hard. >> We got to make it simpler. All right, good stuff. I love the walk down memory Lane. And also your advice. Great stuff. I think culture is huge. That's why I like Adam's keynote at Reinvent, Adam Selipsky talk about Pathfinders and trailblazers, because that's a blast radius impact when you can actually have innovation organically just come from anywhere. That's totally cool. >> Matt: Totally cool. >> All right, let's get into the product. Serverless has been hot. We hear a lot of EKS is hot. Containers are booming. Kubernetes is getting adopted, still a lot of work to do there. Cloud native developers are booming. Serverless, Lambda. How does that impact the analytics piece? Can you share the hot products around how that translates? >> Absolutely, yeah. >> Aurora, SageMaker. >> Yeah, I think it's... If you look at kind of the evolution and what customers are asking for, they don't just want low cost. They don't just want this broad set of services. They don't just want those services to have deep capabilities. They want those services to have as low an operating cost over time as possible. So we kind of really got it down. We got built a lot of muscle, a lot of services about getting up and running and experimenting and prototyping and turning things off and turning them on and turning them off. And that's all great. But actually, you really only in most projects start something once and then stop something once, and maybe there's an hour in between or maybe there's a year. But the real expense in terms of time and operations and complexity is sometimes in that running cost. And so we've heard very loudly and clearly from customers that running cost is just undifferentiated to them. And they want to spend more time on their work. And in analytics, that is slicing the data, pivoting the data, combining the data, labeling the data, training their models, running inference against their models, and less time doing the operational pieces. >> Is that why the service focuses there? >> Yeah, absolutely. It dramatically reduces the skill required to run these workloads of any scale. And it dramatically reduces the undifferentiated heavy lifting because you get to focus more of the time that you would have spent on the operations on the actual work that you want to get done. And so if you look at something just like Redshift Serverless, that we launched a Reinvent, we have a lot of customers that want to run the cluster, and they want to get into the weeds where there is benefit. We have a lot of customers that say there's no benefit for me, I just want to do the analytics. So you run the operational piece, you're the experts. We run 60 million instant startups every single day. We do this a lot. >> John: Exactly. We understand the operations- >> I just want the answers. Come on. >> So just give me the answers or just give me the notebook or just give me the inference prediction. Today, for example, we announced Serverless Inference. So now once you've trained your machine learning model, just run a few lines of code or you just click a few buttons and then you got an inference endpoint that you do not have to manage. And whether you're doing one query against that end point per hour or you're doing 10 million, we'll just scale it on the back end. I know we got not a lot of time left, but I want to get your reaction on this. One of the things about the data lakes not being data swamps has been, from what I've been reporting and hearing from customers, is that they want to retrain their machine learning algorithm. They need that data, they need the real time data, and they need the time series data. Even though the time has passed, they got to store in the data lake. So now the data lake's main function is being reusing the data to actually retrain. It works properly. So a lot of post mortems turn into actually business improvements to make the machine learnings smarter, faster. Do you see that same way? Do you see it the same way? >> Yeah, I think it's really interesting >> Or is that just... >> No, I think it's totally interesting because it's convenient to kind of think of analytics as a very clear progression from point A to point B. But really, you're navigating terrain for which you do not have a map, and you need a lot of help to navigate that terrain. And so having these services in place, not having to run the operations of those services, being able to have those services be secure and well governed. And we added PII detection today. It's something you can do automatically, to be able to use any unstructured data, run queries against that unstructured data. So today we added text queries. So you can just say, well, you can scan a badge, for example, and say, well, what's the name on this badge? And you don't have to identify where it is. We'll do all of that work for you. It's more like a branch than it is just a normal A to B path, a linear path. And that includes loops backwards. And sometimes you've got to get the results and use those to make improvements further upstream. And sometimes you've got to use those... And when you're downstream, it will be like, "Ah, I remember that." And you come back and bring it all together. >> Awesome. >> So it's a wonderful world for sure. >> Dr. Matt, we're here in theCUBE. Just take the last word and give the update while you're here what's the big news happening that you're announcing here at Summit in San Francisco, California, and update on the business analytics group. >> Yeah, we did a lot of announcements in the keynote. I encourage everyone to take a look at, that this morning with Swami. One of the ones I'm most excited about is the opportunity to be able to take dashboards, visualizations. We're all used to using these things. We see them in our business intelligence tools, all over the place. However, what we've heard from customers is like, yes, I want those analytics, I want that visualization, I want it to be up to date, but I don't actually want to have to go from my tools where I'm actually doing my work to another separate tool to be able to look at that information. And so today we announced 1-click public embedding for QuickSight dashboard. So today you can literally as easily as embedding a YouTube video, you can take a dashboard that you've built inside QuickSight, cut and paste the HTML, paste it into your application and that's it. That's what you have to do. It takes seconds. >> And it gets updated in real time. >> Updated in real time. It's interactive. You can do everything that you would normally do. You can brand it, there's no power by QuickSight button or anything like that. You can change the colors, fit in perfectly with your application. So that's an incredibly powerful way of being able to take an analytics capability that today sits inside its own little fiefdom and put it just everywhere. Very transformative. >> Awesome. And the business is going well. You got the Serverless detail win for you there. Good stuff. Dr. Matt Wood, thank you for coming on theCUBE. >> Anytime. Thank you. >> Okay, this is theCUBE's coverage of AWS Summit 2022 in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Stay with us for more coverage of day two after this short break. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. I've got a CUBE alum with me next. Ajay Patel is here, the SVP and GM of Modern Apps and Management at VMware. Ajay, welcome back to the program, it's great to see you. >> Well thank you for having me. It's always great to be here. >> Glad that you're doing well. I want to dig into your role as SVP and GM with Modern Apps and Management. Talk to me about some of the dynamics of your role and then we'll get into the vision and the strategy that VMware has. >> Makes sense. VMware has created a business group called Modern Apps and Management, with the single mission of helping our customers accelerate their digital transformation through software. And we're finding them leveraging both the edge and the multiple clouds they deploy on. So our mission here is helping, them be the cloud diagnostic manager for application development and management through our portfolio of Tazu and VRealize solutions allowing customers to both build and operate applications at speed across these edge data center and cloud deployments And the big thing we hear is all the day two challenges, right of managing costs, risks, security, performance. That's really the essence of what the business group is about. How do we speed idea to production and allow you to operate at scale. >> When we think of speed, we can't help, but think of the acceleration that we've seen in the last 18 months, businesses transforming digitally to first survive the dynamics of the market. But talk to me about how the, the pandemic has influenced catalyzed VMware's vision here. >> You can see in every industry, this need for speed has really accelerated. What used to be weeks and months of planning and execution has materialized into getting something out in production in days. One of great example I can remember is one of my financial services customer that was responsible for getting all the COVID payments out to the small businesses and being able to get that application from idea to production matter of 10 days, it was just truly impressive to see the teams come together, to come up with the idea, put the software together and getting production so that we could start delivering the financial funds the companies needed, to keep them viable. So great social impact and great results in matter of days. >> And again, that acceleration that we've seen there, there's been a lot of silver linings, I think, but I want to get in next to some of the industry trends that are influencing app modernization. What are you seeing in the customer environment? What are some of those key trends that are driving adoption? >> I mean, this move to cloud is here to stay and most of customers have a cloud first strategy, and we rebranded this from VMware the cloud smart strategy, but it's not just about one particular flavor of cloud. We're putting the best workload on the best cloud. But the reality is when I speak to many of the customers is they're way behind on the bar of digital plats. And it's, that's because the simple idea of, you know, lift and shift or completely rewrite. So there's no one fits all and they're struggling with hardware capability, their the development teams, their IT assets, the applications are modernized across these three things. So we see modernization kind of fall in three categories, infrastructure modernization, the practice of development or devops modernization, and the application transform itself. And we are starting to find out that customers are struggling with all three. Well, they want to leverage the best of cloud. They just don't have the skills or the expertise to do that effectively. >> And how does VMware help address that skills gap. >> Yeah, so the way we've looked at it is we put a lot of effort around education. So on the everyone knows containers and Kubernetes is the future. They're looking to build these modern microservices, architectures and applications. A lot of investment in just kind of putting the effort to help customers learn these new tools, techniques, and create best practices. So theCUBE academy and the effort and the investment putting in just enabling the ecosystem now with the skills and capabilities is one big effort that VMware is putting. But more importantly, on the product side, we're delivering solutions that help customers both build design, deliver and operate these applications on Kubernetes across the cloud of choice. I'm most excited about our announcement around this product. We're just launching called Tanzu application platform. It is what we call an application aware platform. It's about making it easy for developers to take the ideas and get into production. It kind of bridging that gap that exists between development and operations. We hear a lot about dev ops, as you know, how do you bring that to life? How do you make that real? That's what Tanzu application platform is about. >> I'm curious of your customer conversations, how they've changed in the last year or so in terms of, app modernization, things like security being board level conversations, are you noticing that that is rising up the chain that app modernization is now a business critical initiative for our businesses? >> So it's what I'm finding is it's the means. It's not that if you think about the board level conversations about digital transformation you know, I'm a financial services company. I need to provide mobile FinTech. I'm competing with this new age application and you're delivering the same service that they offered digitally now, right. Like from a retail bank. I can't go to the store, the retail branch anymore, right. I need to provide the same capability for payments processing all online through my mobile phone. So it's really the digitalization of the traditional processes that we're finding most exciting. In order to do that, we're finding that no applications are in cloud right. They had to take the existing financial applications and put a mobile frontend to it, or put some new business logic or drive some transformation there. So it's really a transformation around existing application to deliver a business outcome. And we're focusing it through our Tanzu lab services, our capabilities of Tanzu application platform, all the way to the operations and management of getting these products in production or these applications in production. So it's the full life cycle from idea to production is what customers are looking for. They're looking to compress the cycle time as you and I spoke about, through this agility they're looking for. >> Right, definitely a compressed cycle time. Talk to me about some of the other announcements that are being made at VMworld with respect to Tanzu and helping customers on the app modernization front, and that aligned to the vision and mission that you talked about. >> Wonderful, I would say they're kind of, I put them in three buckets. One is what are we doing to help developers get access to the new technology. Back to the skills learning part of it, most excited about Tanzu of community edition and Tanzu mission control starter pack. This is really about getting Kubernetes stood up in your favorite deployment of choice and get started building your application very quickly. We're also announcing Tanzu application platform that I spoke about, we're going to beta 2 for that platform, which makes it really easy for developers to get access to Kubernetes capability. It makes development easy. We're also announcing marketplace enhancements, allowing us to take the best of breed IC solutions and making them available to help you build applications faster. So one set of announcements around building applications, delivering value, getting them down to market very quickly. On the management side, we're really excited about the broad portfolio management we've assembled. We're probably in the customer's a way to build a cloud operating model. And in the cloud operating model, it's about how do I do VMs and containers? How do I provide a consistent management control plane so I can deliver applications on the cloud of my choice? How do I provide intrinsic observability, intrinsic security so I can operate at scale. So this combination of development tooling, platform operations, and day two operations, along with enhancements in our cost management solution with CloudHealth or being able to take our universal capabilities for consumption, driving insight and observity that really makes it a powerful story for customers, either on the build or develop or deploy side of the equation. >> You mentioned a couple of things are interesting. Consistency being key from a management perspective, especially given this accelerated time in which we're living, but also you mentioned security. We've seen so much movement on the security front in the last year and a half with the massive rise in ransomware attacks, ransomware now becoming a household word. Talk to me about the security factor and how you're helping customers from a risk mitigation perspective, because now it's not, if we get attacked, it's when. >> And I think it's really starts with, we have this notion of a secure software supply chain. We think of software as a production factory from idea to production. And if you don't start with known good hard attacks to start with, trying to wire in security after attack is just too difficult. So we started with secure content, curated images content catalogs that customers are setting up as best practices. We started with application accelerators. These are best practice that codifies with the right guard rails in place. And then we automate that supply chain so that you have checks in every process, every step of the way, whether it's in the build process and the deploy process or in runtime production. And you had to do this at the application layer because there is no kind of firewall or edge you can protect the application is highly distributed. So things like application security and API security, another area we announced a new offering at VM world around API security, but everything starts with an API endpoint when you have a security. So security is kind of woven in into the design build, deploy and in the runtime operation. And we're kind of wire this in intrinsically to the platform with best of breed security partners now extending in evolving their solution on top of us. >> What's been some of the customer feedback from some of the new technologies that you announced. I'm curious, I imagine knowing how VMware is very customer centric, customers were essential in the development and iteration of the technologies, but just give me some of the idea on customer feedback of this direction that you're going. >> Yeah, there's a great, exciting example where we're working with the army to create a software factory. you would've never imagined right, The US army being a software digital enterprise, we're partnering with what we call the US army futures command in a joint effort to help them build the first ever software development factory where army personnel are actually becoming true cloud native developers, where you're putting the soldiers to do cloud native development, everything in the terms of practice of building software, but also using the Tanzu portfolio in delivering best-in-class capability. This is going to rival some of the top tech companies in Silicon valley. This is a five-year prototype project in which we're picking cohorts of soldiers, making them software developers and helping them build great capability through both combination of classroom based training, but also strong technical foundation and expertise provided by our lab. So this is an example where, you know, the industry is working with the customer to co-innovate, how we build software, but also driving the expertise of these personnel hierarchs. As a soldier, you know, what you need, what if you could start delivering solutions for rest of your members in a productive way. So very exciting, It's an example where we've leapfrogging and delivering the kind of the Silicon valley type innovation to our standard practice. It's traditionally been a procurement driven model. We're trying to speed that and drive it into a more agile delivery factory concept as well. So one of the most exciting projects that I've run into the last six months. >> The army software factory, I love that my dad was an army medic and combat medic in Vietnam. And I'm sure probably wouldn't have been apt to become a software developer. But tell me a little bit about, it's a very cool project and so essential. Talk to me a little bit about the impetus of the army software factory. How did that come about? >> You know, this came back with strong sponsorship from the top. I had an opportunity to be at the opening of the campus in partnership with the local Austin college. And as General Milley and team spoke about it, they just said the next battleground is going to be a digital backup power hub. It's something we're going to have to put our troops in place and have modernized, not just the army, but modernize the way we deliver it through software. It's it speaks so much to the digital transformation we're talking about right. At the very heart of it is about using software to enable whether it's medics, whether it's supplies, either in a real time intelligence on the battlefield to know what's happening. And we're starting to see user technology is going to drive dramatically hopefully the next war, we don't have to fight it more of a defensive mode, but that capability alone is going to be significant. So it's really exciting to see how technology has become pervasive in all aspects, in every format including the US army. And this partnership is a great example of thought leadership from the army command to deliver software as the innovation factory, for the army itself. >> Right, and for the army to rival Silicon valley tech companies, that's pretty impressive. >> Pretty ambitious right. In partnership with one of the local colleges. So that's also starting to show in terms of how to bring new talent out, that shortage of skills we talked about. It's a critical way to kind of invest in the future in our people, right? As we, as we build out this capability. >> That's excellent that investment in the future and helping fill those skills gaps across industries is so needed. Talk to me about some of the things that you're excited about this year's VMworld is again virtual, but what are some of the things that you think are really fantastic for customers and prospects to learn? >> I think as Raghu said, we're in the third act of VM-ware, but more interestingly, but the third act of where the cloud is, the cloud has matured cloud 2.0 was really about shifting and using a public cloud for the IS capabilities. Cloud 3.0 is about to use the cloud of choice for the best application. We are going to increasingly see this distributed nature of application. I asked most customers, where does your application run? It's hard to answer that, right? It's on your mobile device, it's in your storefront, it's in your data center, it's in a particular cloud. And so an application is a collection of services. So what I'm most excited about is all business capables being published as an API, had an opportunity to be part of a company called Sonos and then Apogee. And we talked about API management years ago. I see increasingly this need for being able to expose a business capability as an API, being able to compose these new applications rapidly, being able to secure them, being able to observe what's going on in production and then adjust and automate, you can scale up scale down or deploy the application where it's most needed in minutes. That's a dynamic future that we see, and we're excited that VM was right at the heart of it. Where that in our cloud agnostic software player, that can help you, whether it's your development challenges, your deployment challenges, or your management challenges, in the future of multi-cloud, that's what I'm most excited about, we're set up to help our customers on this cloud journey, regardless of where they're going and what solution they're looking to build. >> Ajay, what are some of the key business outcomes that the cloud is going to deliver across industries as things progress forward? >> I think we're finding the consistent message I hear from our customers is leverage the power of cloud to transform my business. So it's about business outcomes. It's less about technology. It's what outcomes we're driving. Second it's about speed and agility. How do I respond, adjust kind of dynamic contiuness. How do I innovate continuously? How do I adjust to what the business needs? And third thing we're seeing more and more is I need to be able to management costs and I get some predictability and able to optimize how I run my business. what they're finding with the cloud is the costs are running out of control, they need a way, a better way of knowing the value that they're getting and using the best cloud for the right technology. Whether may be a private cloud in some cases, a public cloud or an edge cloud. So they want to able to going to select and move and have that portability. Being able to make those choices optimization is something they're demanding from us. And so we're most excited about this need to have a flexible infrastructure and a cloud agnostic infrastructure that helps them deliver these kinds of business outcomes. >> You mentioned a couple of customer examples and financial services. You mentioned the army software factory. In terms of looking at where we are in 2021. Are there any industries in particular, maybe essential services that you think are really prime targets for the technologies, the new announcements that you're making at VM world. >> You know, what we are trying to see is this is a broad change that's happening. If you're in retail, you know, you're kind of running a hybrid world of digital and physical. So we're seeing this blending of physical and digital reality coming together. You know, FedEx is a great customer of ours and you see them as spoken as example of it, you know, they're continue to both drive operational change in terms of being delivering the packages to you on time at a lower cost, but on the other side, they're also competing with their primary partners and retailers and in some cases, right, from a distribution perspective for Amazon, with Amazon prime. So in every industry, you're starting to see the lines are blurring between traditional partners and competitors. And in doing so, they're looking for a way to innovate, innovate at speed and leverage technology. So I don't think there is a specific industry that's not being disrupted whether it's FinTech, whether it's retail, whether it's transportation logistics, or healthcare telemedicine, right? The way you do pharmaceutical, how you deliver medicine, it's all changing. It's all being driven by data. And so we see a broad application of our technology, but financial services, healthcare, telco, government tend to be a kind of traditional industries that are with us but I think the reaches are pretty broad. >> Yeah, it is all changing. Everything is becoming more and more data-driven and many businesses are becoming data companies or if they're not, they need to otherwise their competition, as you mentioned, is going to be right in the rear view mirror, ready to take their place. But that's something that we see that isn't being talked about. I don't think enough, as some of the great innovations coming as a result of the situation that we're in. We're seeing big transformations in industries where we're all benefiting. I think we need to get that, that word out there a little bit more so we can start showing more of those silver linings. >> Sure. And I think what's happening here is it's about connecting the people to the services at the end of the day, these applications are means for delivering value. And so how do we connect us as consumers or us employees or us as partners to the business to the operator with both digitally and in a physical way. And we bring that in a seamless experience. So we're seeing more and more experience matters, you know, service quality and delivery matter. It's less about the technologies back again to the outcomes. And so very much focused in building that the platform that our customers can use to leverage the best of the cloud, the best of their people, the best of the innovation they have within the organization. >> You're right. It's all about outcomes. Ajay, thank you for joining me today, talking about some of the new things that the mission of your organization, the vision, some of the new products and technologies that are being announced at VM world, we appreciate your time and hopefully next year we'll see you in person. >> Thank you again and look forward to the next VMWorld in person. >> Likewise for Ajay Patel. You're very welcome for Ajay Patel. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBEs coverage of VMWorld of 2021. (soft music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube >>with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its Ecosystem partners. Welcome back to the Cube. Virtual 2020. Coverage of VM Ware, VM World 2020 Virtual. I'm Sean for your host of the Cube. Join with Dave Alonso. We got a great guest. Carol Carpenter, Who's the chief marketing officer of VM Ware Cube Alumni move from Google Cloud to VM Ware. Carol, great to see you. And thanks for coming on the Cube for VM World 2020. Virtual coverage. Thank you. >>Yeah. Thank you both for having me here. Delighted to be here. >>So we've talked about many times before, but you're very in the cloud. Native space. You know the market pretty well. I gotta ask you what attracted you to come to the end? Where what was the What was the reason? Now you're heading up marketing for VM. Where what was the driving force? >>Well, a few things, you know, Number one. I've always had a passion for this space. I love the cloud. I was involved in an early stage company prior to Google Cloud that really had the promise of helping people get enterprises, get to the cloud faster. Um, and when I, you know, look around and I Look which kind of which companies are shaping the future of technology? VM ware, Certainly one of those companies. Second reason goes without saying the people in the culture, incredible leadership and empowerment all throughout Vienna, where and it's it's quite exceptional. And the third is I really think customers are on a really tough journey. Um, and having been at a hyper scaler, having worked at places where you know, cos air in a more traditional legacy environment, it makes it made me realize like this is a tough journey. And I think the, um where is uniquely positioned to help enterprises with what is a complex journey, and it's a multi cloud world. I'm sure you know that our customers know it. And how do you make all these disparate systems and tools work together to deliver the business results? I believe the M where is uniquely positioned Thio. >>It's interesting. VM Ware is going to a whole nother level. We've been commenting on our analysis segments around the business performance, obviously, and the moves they've made over the years. This is our 11th VM world. Keep started 10 years. 11 years ago. Um, we've been seeing the moves so great. Technology moves, product moves, business performance. The relationship with the clouds is all in place. But then Cove, it hits, okay? And then all that gets accelerate even further because you've got, you know, companies that I have to use this downtime to re modernized. And some people get a tailwind with modern application opportunities. So it's interesting time to be, you know, on this trajectory with VM ware and the clouds, what's your thoughts? Because you join right in the middle of all this and you're in and I of the storm. What's your view on this? Because this is a, uh, forcing function for companies to not only accelerate the transformation, but to move faster. >>Yeah, for sure. You know, it's been an incredibly challenging time, I think for everyone, and I hope everyone who's watching and listening is safe. Um, you know, we talk about decades of progress being made in two weeks, and I guess that's the silver lining. If there is one, which is this ultimate work? Remote work from home that we've enabled and the work anywhere. It's been completely liberating in so many ways. Um, you know, it's an area where I look at, there's how we lead our teams and how do we maintain relationships with customers, which obviously requires a different type of interaction, of different type of outreach? And and then there's what are the solutions at scale And you know, im I pleased to say, like there were absolute big lifts in certain areas of our business, particularly around, you know, remote work and our digital workspace solutions, you know, really enabling companies to get thousands of workers up and running quickly. That, combined with our security solutions and our SD wan solution to really enable all of these remote homes to become thousands of remote offices. So there's all of that, which is incredibly positive. And at the same time, you know, I have to tell you, I joke, but I still haven't figured out where the bathroom is, you know, free three plus months. So that way I miss the human connection. I miss being able to just see people and give people a hug now and then when you want Thio >>e mean, VM. Where? Carol, It's amazing. Company. You mentioned the culture before. It really started as a workstation virtualization company, right? And then so many challenges, you know, and use a computing. You guys do an acquisition bringing Sanjay Poon in all of a sudden, you're the leader there cloud, you know, fumbled a little bit, but all of a sudden, the cloud strategy kicking on all cylinders, we see that, you know, growing like crazy. The networking piece, the storage piece you mentioned security, which is a amazing opportunity. Containers. They're gonna kill kill VM ware. Well, I guess. Guess what? We're embracing them. It seems like culturally vm where it just has this attitude of if there's a wave, you know, we're gonna ride it, we're gonna embrace it and figure out how to deliver value to our customers. What's your thinking on that? >>Yeah. I mean, it's such a VM ware, such an innovative company. And that is another reason that attracted me on disability to look at what customers need. Like, this is an incredibly were an incredibly customer centric company, listening to customers, understanding their needs and providing a bridge to where they need to go while also providing them the resiliency and needs they have today. That is what thrills me. And I think we have such an incredible opportunity to continue to drive that future innovation while also being that bridge. Um, I have to tell you, you know, I've known VM Ware for a long time, and what appealed to me is this broader portfolio and this opportunity to actually tell a broader business value story to be able to actually tell that story about not just digital transformation but business transformation. So that's what that's. That's the journey we're on and it's it's happening. It's really I mean, you look at all the customers, whether it's, you know, JPMorgan Chase to, um, a nonprofit like feeding America to, you know, large companies like Nike. It's really incredible the impact and value we could bring. And I feel that my job and the marketing team's job is, I tell them like they're all these diamonds in the backyard. It's just some of them are a little dirty, and some are they're just not fully revealed, and it's our job, todo and you know, dust them off and tell the story to help customers and prospects understand the value we could bring. >>That's how should we be thinking? How should we be thinking about that? That business value, transformation, business transformation? You you? Certainly when you think of an application's company that there's easily connect the dots. But how should we be thinking about VM Ware in that value chain? You an enabler for that transformation? Can you provide some color there? >>Yeah, let me give you some specific examples like Look at, um, so the addition of Tan Xue to the portfolio is what enables us to have these discussions that, let's face it, the only reason people need or want infrastructure is because they want to deploy an application. They want to write an application. They want to move an application. And Tan Xue, which is our container based, kubernetes based orchestration solution and lots more to it. That's what how it is in simple terms that gives us the ability to work with companies, lines of business as well as developers around riel. Business transformation. So two quick examples one. I can't say the name quite yet, but I think very large pharmaceutical company who wants to launch and have a mobile app to help patients. People who are taking Cove in 19 tests get the results, understand the results, ask questions about the results and have one place to go that's really powerful. And to be able to develop an app that is scale built for scale, built for enterprise, built to be resilient when patients are trying to get information. Um, in four weeks, I mean, that's pretty. That's quite incredible. Another example is, you know, very large e commerce company that, you know, you mentioned Cove it and some of the challenges we know retail has certainly been kind of, ah, tale of two cities, right? Some companies with lots of lift and others with real struggle in the physical world. But anyway, large retailer who had to within weeks flip to curbside pickup, Um, being able to look customers being able to look at inventory on demand, those kinds of capabilities required ah, wholesale rewrite of many of their e commerce applications. Again, that's a place where we can go in and we can talk to them about that. And by the way, as you know, the challenge is it's one thing to write and deploy an app, and then it's another to actually run it at scale, which then requires the networking, scalability and flexibility it requires. The virtual, um, storage. It requires all the other elements that we bring to the table. So I think that is the That's kind of the landing spot. But it's not the ending spot when we talk to customers. >>Carol talk about the challenge of VM World 2020 this year. It's not in person. It's one of them. It's an industry event. It's been one every year. It's a place where there's deep community, deep technical demos, beep deep discussions. Ah, lot of face to face hallway conversations. That's not happening. It's virtual. Um, you came right in the middle of all this. You guys pulled it together. Um, got a You got keynote sessions and thanks for including the Cube. We really appreciate that as well. But you have all this content. How did you handle that? And how's that going and and share some, uh, color on what it took to pull it off. And what's your expectation? >>Yeah, So you know. Yes. VM world is considered the gold standard when it comes to industry events. I mean, from the outside in this is the canonical I t event. And so I feel, really, you know, honored that this franchise is now in my hands and have an incredible team of people who obviously have been working on it for prior to my joining. So I just feel honored to be part of it. Um, this is going to be the world's largest VM world. And on the one hand, miss the energy in the room, Miss seeing people, everything you talked about, the serendipitous interactions that the food line or coffee bar. Um, but going virtual has so many benefits. Some of the things we were talking about earlier, the ability to reach many, many more people. This event is going to be 5 to 6 times larger than our physical event. And that's not even including the VM world that we're running in Asia in China. And the other thing that makes me super happy is that over 65% of our registrants and of the attendees here are actually first time VM world attendees. So this ability to broad in our tent and make it easier I mean, let's face it. You know, being able to fly, whether it was Vegas or San Francisco is originally planned. Stay in these expensive hotels and take that time it was. It's a big ask. So by going virtual, we actually have expanded our audience tremendously. Three other thing I am really excited about is we have 800 plus content sessions. We are following the sun. We have live Q and A after every session. We have really the best mobile app for any events, so I encourage you to take a look at that which does enable the chat interaction as well as you know, path funding through the many channels we have of contact. Its's Look, we're learning, and I'd love to follow up with you later to hear what you've learned because I know you've also been doing a lot. Virtually, I think the world is going to move to something that's more hybrid, some combination of virtual and small group, you know, in person, some local events of some sort. Um, but this one I'm super excited about, we we really have seen high engagement, and I just think, Well, I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. E >>I think one of the things that we've been hearing is is that I can now go to the M world. I can participate now virtually it's it's kind of I would call First Generation writes me the Web early days. But you're right. I think it's gonna open up the eyes to a bigger community, access a bigger pool of data, bigger pool of interactions and community. And when they do come back face to face, people be ableto fly and meet people they met online. So we think this is gonna be a real trend where it's like the r A. Y of this virtual space is tremendous. You could do demos. You conserve yourselves, you could consume a demo, but then meet people face to face. >>And by the way, we have, you know, a tremendous number of fun activities. Hopefully you've taken part in some of them. Everything from puppy therapy Thio magic shows to yoga Thio Um you know John Legend legend performing. So I agree. I think the level personalization and ability to self serve is going to be out of this world. So yeah, it's just the best. >>Your event, just some key things that we can share with the audience. Cloud City has over 60 solution Demos Uh, there's a VM World challenge That's fun. There's also an ex Ask the expert section where you got Joe Beta and Ragu and other luminaries there to ask the questions of the That's the top talent in the company all online. And of course, you get the CTO Innovation keynote with Greg Lavender. So you know you're bringing the big guns out on display on it. Z free access. Um, it's awesome. Congratulations. We're looking forward Toa see, with the day that looks like after, So what's the story line for you? If you had to summarize out the VM World 2020 this year, what's coming out from the data? What are you hearing? Is the key themes, Actually, the tagline. You know, uh, you know, possible together, Digital foundation, unpredictable world. But what are you hearing, uh, in the virtual hallways? >>Well, a few things, but I'd say the top take away is that VM where has spread its wings, has embraced mawr of the different ICTY audiences and is driving business transformation for companies in new and pretty unique ways. What and then obviously like slew of announcements, new partnerships, new capabilities, everything around multi cloud we have. As you know, every single cloud provider is a partner on the security front, intrinsic security built in throughout the entire stack. The the other part that I I think it's super exciting are these partnerships were announcing everything from what we're doing with and video to make a i mawr accessible for enterprises in production to what we're doing around sassy, secure access Service Edge. Being able to provide a holistic, secure, distributed environment so that every worker, no matter where they are, every endpoint, every remote office could be fully secured. >>You know, in VM where is the gold standard of Of of the Ecosystem and VM world? Of course, they're all in the showcase and it was hard fought. I mean, it took a long time to get there, and you know, the challenges of building that. And now you mentioned in video. You see all these new tail winds coming in and and then I've seen companies launch at VM World. And so you know that ecosystem is, as I say, it is very difficult to build. But then becomes a huge asset because this just gives you so much leverage. A zone organization, your company's your partners, your customers. >>Thank you, Dave. Yeah, we're super excited. And I should say that like the partner and the ecosystem here is unparalleled. And our challenge is how do we provide? And you know, this Like, how do we provide the strategic vision and that practitioner level content? So we're gonna you know, that's what we're committed. Teoh is making sure that our practitioners get everything they need in every every area of expertise, as well as making sure we're conveying our business story. >>Carol, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate the inside one final question for you as we get through this crisis soon hybrid comes back for events, certainly. But as the CMO the next gen story, you now have a chief customer officer. We interviewed him. Well, the n words go to the next level. What's your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? And you've got a lot of things going on. Certainly a big story to tell. A lot of ingredients. Toe kinda cook a great, great story here. What's your goals? See him over the next year. >>You know, my goal is to help drive the business transformation and you've heard it from Submit. You've heard it from others at this point. But really, you know, the company is going We're going through a dramatic transformation from being, you know, ah, license on Prem Company to being a multi cloud, modern SAS company. So my goal is to support that. And that means modernizing the way we do marketing which, you know, you say, Well, what does that mean? It means customer focus, customer lifecycle marketing. It means agility, being able to actually use data to drive how we interact with customers and users so that they have those great experiences and they continue to use the product and Dr Adoption and Growth. And the other part of it is, um, b two b marketing, as you may or may not have noticed, is incredibly boring and dull. And I know I'm guilty of this, too. We get caught up in a lot of but jargon and the language, and I am on a mission that we're going to do great B two B marketing that helps customers understand what we do and where we express the value simply clearly and in in differentiated way. >>That's awesome. >>Yeah, Why should the consumer guys have all the fun? Right? >>Right, Well, and that's part of being, by the way a SAS or subscription company is. Everything we do needs to be consumer simple at scale and with the secure ability and the reliability of what an enterprise means. >>Well, I got to tell you that the irony of all this virtual ization of the world with Covic virtual events e one of the big surprise is we're gonna be looking back at is how much it's opened up Thio Mawr audiences and new ways of modernizing and taking advantage of that. Certainly with content in community, you guys are well positioned. Congratulations for a great event. Thank you for coming on and sharing your insights, and we'll keep in touch. We'll try. We'll try to make it exciting, Mister Cube. Thank you. Appreciate >>it. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, John. >>I'm Jennifer David. Lot Cube. Coverage of the M 2020 Virtual. This is the Virtual Cube. Have now virtual sets everywhere. All around the world. It's global. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube >>with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back to the VM World 2020 Virtual coverage with the Cube Virtual I'm John for day. Volonte your hosts our 11th year covering VM. We'll get a great guest Greg Lavender, SBP and the CTO of VM. Where, uh, welcome to the Cube. Virtual for VM World 2020 Virtual Great. Thanks for coming on. >>Privileged to be here. Thank you. >>Um, really. You know, one of the things Dave and I were commenting with Pat on just in general start 11th year covering VM world. Uh, a little difference not face to face. But it's always been a technical conference. Always a lot of technical innovation. Project Monterey's out there. It's pretty nerdy, but it's a it's called the catnip of the future. Right? People get excited by it, right? So there's really ah lot of awareness to it because it kinda it smells like a systems overhaul. It smells like an operating system. Feels like a, you know, a lot of moving parts that are, quite frankly, what distributed computing geeks and software geeks love to hear about and to end distributed software intelligence with new kinds of hardware innovations from and video and whatnot. Where's that innovation coming from? Can you share your thoughts on this direction? >>Yeah, I think first I should say this isn't like, you know, something that just, you know, we decided to do, you know, six months ago, actually, in the office of C T 04 years ago, we actually had a project. Um, you know, future looking project to get our core hyper visor technology running on arm processors and that incubated in the office of the CTO for three years. And then last December, move the engineering team that had done that research and advanced development work in the office of the CTO over to our cloud platforms business unit, you know, and smart Knicks, you know, kind of converged with that. And so we were already, you know, well along the innovation path there, and it's really now about building the partnerships we have with smart nick vendors and driving this technology out to the benefit of our customers who don't want to leverage it. >>You get >>Greg, I want if you could clarify something for me on that. So Pat talked about Monterey, a complete re architect ing of the i o Stack. And he talked about it affecting in video. Uh, intel, melon, ox and Sandoz part of that when he talks about the Iot stack, you know, specifically what are we talking about there? >>So you know any any computing server in the data center, you know, in a cola facility or even even in the cloud, you know? Ah, large portion of the, you know CPU resource is, and even some memory resource is can get consumed by just processing. You know, the high volumes of Iot that's going out, you know, storage devices, you know, communicating between the different parts of multi tiered applications. And so there's there's a there's an overhead that that gets consumed in the course server CPU, even if its multi core multi socket. And so by offloading that a lot of that I owe work onto the arm core and taking advantage of the of the hardware offloads there in the smart Knicks, you can You can offload that processing and free up even as much as 30% of the CPU of a server, multi socket, multicourse server, and give that back to the application so that the application gets the benefit of that extra compute and memory resource is >>So what about a single sort of low cost flash tear to avoid the complexities of tearing? Is that part of the equation? >>Well, you know, you can you can, um you know, much storage now is network attached. And so you could if it's all flash storage, you know, using something like envy me fabric over over Ethernet, you can essentially build large scale storage networks more efficiently, you know more cheaply and take advantage of that offload processing, uh, to begin to reduce the Iot Leighton. See, that's required taxes. That network attached storage and not just storage. But, you know, other devices, you know, that you can use you could better network attached. So disaggregated architectures is term. >>Uh, is that a yes? Or is that a stay tuned? >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. I mean the storage. You know, more efficient use of different classes of storage and storage. Tearing is definitely a prime use case there. >>Yeah, great. Thank you. Thanks for that. John, >>How could people think about the edge now? Because one of the things that's in this end to end is the edge. Pat brought it up multi cloud and edge or two areas that are extending off cloud and hybrid. What should people think about the innovation equation around those things? Is that these offload techniques? What specifically in the systems architecture? Er, do you guys see as the key keys there? >>So so, you know, edges very diversified, heterogeneous place, Uh, in the architectures of multi cloud services. So one thing we do know is, you know, workload. I would like to say workload follows data, and a lot of the data will be analyzed, the process at the edge. So the more that you can accelerate that data processing at the edge and apply some machine learning referencing at the edge were almost certainly gonna have kubernetes everywhere, including the edge. So I think you're seeing a convergence of the hardware architectures er the kubernetes control plane and services and machine learning workloads. You know, traveling to the edge where the where the data is going to be processed and actions could be taken autonomously at the edge. So I think we're in this convergence point in the industry where all that comes together. >>How important do you >>do you see that? Okay, John, >>how important is the intelligence piece? Because again, the potatoes at the edge. How do you guys see the data architecture being built out there? >>Um, well, again, it's depending on the other. The thick edge of the thin edge. You know, you're gonna have different, different types of data, and and again, a lot of the the inference thing that could happen at the edges. Going to, I think, for mawr, you know, again to take action at the edges, opposed to calling home to a cloud, you know, to decide what to do. So, depending on, you know, the computational power and the problem with its video processing or monitoring, you know, sensors, Aaron, oil. Well, the kind of interesting that will happen at the edge will will be dependent on that data type and what kind of decisions you want to make. So I think data will be moving, you know, from the edge to the cloud for historical analytics and maybe transitional training mechanisms. But, you know, the five G is gonna play heavily into this is well right for the network connectivity. So we read This unique point is often occurs in the industry every few years of all these technology innovations converging to open up an entirely new platform in a new way of computing that happens at the edge, not just in your data center at the cloud. >>So, Greg, you did a fairly major stint at a large bank. What would something you mentioned? You know, like an oil rig. But what would something like these changes mean for a new industry like banking or financial? Uh, will it have an impact there and put on your customer hat for a minute and take us through that >>e? You know, eight machines, you know, branches, chaos. You know, there's all make banks always been a very distributed computing platform. And so, you know, people want to deliver mawr user experience, services, more video services. You know all these things at the edge to interact positively with the customer without using the people in the loop. And so the banking industry has already gone through the SD when, and I want transformation to deliver the bandwidth more capably to the edge. And I just think that they'll just now be able to deliver Mawr Edge services that happened can happen more autonomously at the edge is opposed that having the hairpin home run everything back to the data center. >>Awesome. Well, Pat talks about the modern platform, the modern companies. Greg, I wanna ask you because we're seeing with Kovar, there's to use cases, you know, the people who don't have a tailwind, Um, companies that are, you know, not doing well because there's no business that you have there modernizing their business while they have some downtime. Other ones have a tailwind. They have a modern app that that takes advantage, this covert situation. So that brings up this idea of what is a modern app look like? Because now, if you're talking about a distributed architecture, some of things you're mentioning around inference, data edge. People are starting to think about these modern naps, and they are changing the game for the business. Now you have vertical industries. You mentioned oil and gas, you got financial services. It used to be you had industry solution. It worked like that and was siloed. Now you have a little bit of a different architectures. If we believe that we're looking up, not down. Does it matter by industry? How should people think about a modern application, how they move faster? Can you share your insights into into some of this conceptual? What is a modern approach and does it doesn't matter by vertical or industry. >>Yes, I mean, certainly over the course of my career, I mean, there's there's a massive diversity of applications. And of course, you know, the explosion of mobile and edge computing is just another sort of sort of use cases that will put demands on the infrastructure in the architecture and the networking. So a modern, a modern app I mean, we historically built sort of these monolithic app. So we sort of built these sort of three tier apse with, you know, sort of the client side, the middleware side. The database back in is the system of record. I mean, this is even being more disaggregated in terms of, you know, the the consumer edges both not just web here, but mobile tear. And, you know, we'll see what emerges out of that. The one thing for sure that is that, um they're becoming less monolithic and mawr a conglomeration of sass and other services that are being brought together, whether it's from the cloud services or whether it's s, you know, SBS delivering, you know, bring your own software. Um, and they're becoming more distributed because people need operated higher degrees of scale. There's a limit to Virgil vertical scaling, so you have to go to horizontal scaling, which is what the cloud is really good at. So I think all these things were driving a whole new set of technologies like next generation AP gateways. Message Busses, service mesh. We're announcing Tanzi's service message being world. Um, you know, this is just allowing allowing that application to be disaggregated and then integrated with other APS assassin services that allow you to get faster time to market. So speed of delivery is everything. So modern C I. C d. Modern software, technology and ability to deploy and run that workload anywhere at the edge of the core in the data center in the cloud. >>So when you do in your re architecture like this, Greg, I mean you've seen over the course of history in our industry you've seen so many companies have hit a wall and in VM, whereas it's just amazing engineering culture. How are you able toe, you know, change the engine mid flight here and avoid like, serious technical debt. And I mean, it took, you know, you said started four years ago, but can you give us a peek inside? You know, that sort of transformation and how you're pulling that off? >>Well, I mean, we're providing were delivered the platform and, you know, spring Buddhas a key, you know, technology that's used widely across the industry already, which is what we've got is part of our pivotal acquisition. And so what we're just trying to do is just keep keep delivering the technology and the platform that allows people to go faster with quality security and safety and resiliency. That's what we do really well at VM ware. So I think you're seeing more people building these APS Cloud native is opposed to, you know, taking an existing legacy app In trying to re factor it, they might do what it called e think somebody's called two speed architectures. Take the user front, end the consumer front in, and put that cloud native in the cloud. But the back end system of record still runs in the private cloud in a highly resilient you know, backed up disaster recovered way. So you're having, I think, brand new cloud native APS we're seeing. And then you're seeing people very carefully because there's a cost to it of looking at How do I basically modernized the front end but maintain the reliability of the scalability of security and the reliability of that sort of system of record back in? So either way, it's it's winning for the companies because they could do faster delivery to their businesses and their clients and their partners. But you have to have the resiliency and reliability that were known for for running those mission critical workloads, >>right? So the scenario is that back end stays on premise on the last earnings call, I think, Pat said, or somebody said that, that I think I just they said on Prem or maybe the man hybrid 30 to 40% cheaper, then doing it in the cloud. I presume they were talking about those kind of back end systems that you know you don't wanna migrate. Can you add some color that again from your customer perspective That the economics? >>Yeah. You know, um, somebody asked me one time what's really a cloud. Greg and I said, automation, automation, automation you can take you can take You can take your current environments and highly automate the release. Lifecycle management develop more agile software delivery methods. And so therefore, you could you could get sort of cloud benefits, you know, from your existing applications by just highly optimizing them and, you know, on the cost of goods and services. And then again, the hybrid cloud model just gives customers more choice, which is okay. I want to reduce the number of data centers I have, but I need to maintain reliability, scalability, etcetera. Take advantage of, you know, the hybrid cloud that we offer. But you'll still run things. Cloud natives. I think you're seeing this true multi cloud technology and paradigm, you know, grow out as people have these choices. And then the question is okay. If you have those choices, how do you maintain security? How do you maintain reliability? How do you maintain up time yet be able to move quickly. And so I think there's different speeds in which those platforms will evolve. And our goal is to give you the ability to basically make those choices and and optimize for economics as well as technical. You know, capability. >>Great. I want to ask you a question with Cove it we're seeing and we've been reporting the Cube virtual evolve because we used to be it at events, but we're not there anymore. But the as everyone has realized with cove it it's exposed some projects that you might not want to double down on or highlighted some gaps in architecture. Er, I mean, certainly who would have forecast of the disruption of 100% work from home VP and provisioning to access and access management security, and it really is exposed. What kind of who's where in the journey, Right in digital transformation. So I gotta ask you, what's the most important story or thing to pay attention, Thio as the smart money and smart customers go, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna double down on that. I'm gonna kill that project or sunset. That or I'm not gonna re factor that I'm gonna contain Arise it and there's probably there's a lot of that going on. In our conversations with customers, they're like it's pretty obvious. It's critical path. It's like we stay in business. We build a modern app, but I'm doubling down. I'm transitioning. It's a whole nother ballgame. What >>is >>the most important thing that you see that people should pay attention to around maintaining an innovation and coming out on the other side? >>Yeah, well, I think I think it just generally goes to the whole thesis of software defined. I mean, you know the idea of taking an appliance physical, You know, you have to order the hardware, get it on your loading dock, install in your data center. You know, go configure it, mapping into the rest of your environment. You know, whereas or you could just spend up new, softer instances of load balancers, firewalls, etcetera. So I think you know what's What's really helped in the covert era is the maturity of software to find everything. Compute storage, networking. Lan really allowed customers and many of our customers toe, you know, rapidly make that pivot. And so you know what? It's the you know, the workspace, the remote workspace. You gotta secure it. That's a key part of it, and you've got to give it. You know, you gotta have the scalability back in your data centers or, if you don't have it, be able to run those virtual desktops you know, in the cloud. And I think so. This ability again to take your current environment and, more importantly, your operating model, which, you know the technology could be agile and fast. But if you're operating models not agile, you know you can't executed Well, One of the best comments I heard from a customer CEO was, you know, for six months we debated, you know, the virtual networking architecture and how to deploy the virtual network. And, you know, when covet hit. We made the decision that did it all in one week. So the question the CEO asked now is like Well, why do we Why do we have to operate in that six month model going forward? Let's operate in the one week model going forward. E. I think that that z yeah, that's e think that's the big That's a big inflection point is the operating model has to be agile. We got all kinds of agile technology and choices I mentioned it's like, How do you make your organization agile to take advantage of those technological offerings? That's really what I've been doing the last six months, helping our customers achieve. >>I think that's a key point worth calling out and doubling down on day because, you know, whether you talk about our q Q virtual, our operating model has changed and we're doing new things. But it's not bad. It's actually beneficial. We could talk to more people. This idea of virtual ization. I mean pun intended virtual izing workforces face to face interactions air now remote. This is a software defined operating business. This is the rial innovation. I think this is the exposure. As companies wake up and going. Why didn't we do that before? Reminds me of the old mainframe days. Days? You know, why do we have that mainframe? Because they're still clutching and grabbing onto it. They got a transition. So this is the new the new reality. >>We were joking earlier that you know it ain't broke, don't fix it. And all of a sudden Covic broke everything. And so you know, virtualization becomes a fundamental component of of of how you respond. But and I wonder if Greg you could talk about the security. Peace? How how that fits in. You know everybody you know, the bromide, of course, is security can't be a bolt on. It's gotta be designed in from the start, Pat Gelsinger said years ago in the Cube. Security is a do over. You guys have purchased many different security components you've built in. Security comes. So how should we think about? And how are you thinking about designing insecurity across that entire stack without really bolting in, You know, pieces, whether it's carbon, carbon, black or other acquisitions that you've made? >>Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's the key. Inflection point we're in is an industry. I mean, getting back to my banking experience, I was responsible for cybersecurity, engineering the platforms that we engineered and deployed across the bank globally. And the challenge, the challenge. You know, that's I had, you know, 150 plus security products, and you go to bed at night wondering what? Which one did I forget to deploy or what did I get that gap? Do you think you think you're safe by the sheer number, but when you really boil down to it is like, you know, because you have to sort of like both all this stuff together to create a secure environment, you know, on a global level. And so really, our philosophy of VM where is Okay? Well, let's kind of break that model. That's what we call it intrinsic security, which is just, you know, we have the hyper visor. If you're running, the hyper visor is running on most of the service in your data center. If we have your if you have our network virtualization, we see all the traffic going between all those hyper visors and out to the cloud as well hybrid cloud or public cloud with our NSX technology. And then, you know, then you sort of bring into that the load balancers and the software to find firewalls. And pretty soon you have realized Okay, look, we have we have most of the estate. Therefore we could see everything and bring some intelligent machine learning to that and get proactive as opposed to reactive. Because our whole model now is we. All this technology and some alert pops and we get reactive. How about proactively telling me that something nasty is going on. >>I need to ask you a >>question. May be remediated. Sorry, John. It may be remediated at some point anyway. Bring in some machine intelligence tow. So instead of like you said, getting an alert actually tells me what what happened and how it was fixed, you know? Or at least recommending what I should dio, right? >>Yeah. I mean, part of the problem in the historic architectures is it was all these little silos. You know, every business unit had its own sort of technology. And Aziz, you make things virtualized. You you sort of do the virtual networking. The virtual stories of virtual compute all the software. You know, all of a sudden you have you have a different platform, you have lots of standardization. Therefore you don't have your operating model simplifies right and amount of and then it's about just collecting all the data and then making sense of the data. So you're not overwhelming the human's capacity to respond to it. And so I think that's really the fundamental thing we're all trying to get to. But the surface area is enlarged outside the data centers we've discussed out to the edge, whatever the edges, you know, into the cloud hybrid or public. So now you've got this big surface area where you've gotta have all that telemetry and all that visibility again, Back to getting proactive. So you got to do it in Band is opposed out of band. >>Great. I want to ask you a question on cyber security. We have an event on October 4th, the virtual event that Cuba is hosting with Cal Poly around this space and cybersecurity, symposiums, intersection of space and cyber. I noticed VM Ware recently announced last month that the United States Space Force has committed to the Tan Xue platform for for Continuous Dev ops operation for agility. I interviewed Lieutenant General John Thompson, Space Force, and we talked about that. He said quote, it's hard to do break fix in space. Uh, illustrating, really? Just can't send someone to swap out something in space. Not yet, at least. So they're looking at software defined as a key operating reality. Okay, so again, talk about the edge of space Isas edges. You're gonna get it. Need to be completely mad and talk about payloads and data. This >>is kind >>of interesting data point because you have security issues because space is gonna be contested and congested as an edge device. So it's actually the government's interested in that. But fundamentally, the death hops problem that you're you guys are involved in This >>is a >>reality. It's kind of connects this reality idea of operating models based in reality have to be software. What's >>your name? Yeah. I mean, I think the term we use now is def sec ops because you can't just do Dev ops. You have to have the security component in there, So, uh, yeah, the interesting. You know, like, there's a lot of interesting things happen just in fundamental networking, right? I mean, you know, the StarLink, you know, satellites at Testa. His launched Elon musk has launched and, you know, bringing sort of, you know, higher band with laurel agency to those. Yeah, we'll call it near space the and then again, just opens up all new opportunities for what we can dio. And so, Yeah, I think that's the software that the whole the whole saw for development ecosystem again, back to this idea. I think of three things. You gotta have speed. You gotta have scale and you gotta have security. And so that's really the emerging platform, whether it's a terrestrial or in near space, Uh, that's giving us the opportunity, Thio Do new architectures create service measures of services, some terrestrial, some some you know, far remote. And as you bring these new application architectures and system platform architectures together with all the underlying hardware and networking innovations that are occurring, you mentioned flash. But even getting into pmm persistent memory, right? So this this is so much happening that is converging. What's exciting to me about being a TV? Where is the CTO and we partner with all the hardware vendors? We partner with all the system providers, like in video and others. You know, the smart nick vendors. And then we get to come up with software architectures that sort of bring that together holistically and give people a platform. We can run your workloads to get work done wherever you need to land those workloads. And that's really the excitement about >>the candy store. And yet you've got problems hard problems to work on to solve. I mean, this really brings the whole project moderate, full circle because we think about space and networks and all these things you're talking about, You need to have smart everything. I mean, isn't that software? It's a complete tie into the Monterey. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly. You're right. It's not just it's not just connecting everything and pushing data around its than having the intelligence to do it efficiently, economically, insecurely. And that's you know. So I see that you don't want to over hype machine learning. I did not to use the term AI, but use the machine learning technologies, you know, properly trained with the proper data sets, you know, and then the proper algorithms. You know that you can then a employee, you know, at the edge small edge, thick edge, you know, in the data center at the cloud is really Then you give the visibility so that we get to that proactive world I was talking about. >>Yeah, great stuff, Greg. Great insight, great conversation. Looking forward to talking mawr Tech with you. Obviously you are in the right spot was in the center of all the action across the board final point. If you could just close it out for us. What is the most important story at VM World 2020 this year. >>Um, well, I think you know, I like to say that I have the best job. I think you know that I've had in my career. I've had some great ones is you know, we get to be disruptive innovators, and we have a culture of perpetual innovation and really being world for us, Aly employees and all the people that work together to put it together is we get to showcase. You know, some of that obviously have more up our sleeves for the future. But, you know, being world is are, you know, coming coming out out show of the latest set of innovations and technologies. So there's going to be so much I have, ah, vision and innovation. Keynote kickoff, right. Do some lightning demos. And actually, I talk about work we're doing in sustainability, and we're putting a micro grid on our campus in Palo Alto and partnership with City of Palo Alto so that when the wildfires come through or there is power outages, you know we're in oasis of power generating capacity with our solar in our batteries. And so the city of Palo Alto could take their emergency command vehicles and plug into our batteries when the power is out in Palo Alto and operate city services and city emergency services. So we're not just innovating, you know, in cortex we're innovating to become a more, you know, sustainable company and provide sustainable, you know, carbon neutral technology for our customers to adopt. And I think that's an area we wanna talk about me. We talk about it next time, but I think you know our innovations. We're gonna basically help change the world with regard to climate as well. >>Let's definitely do that. Let's follow up for another in depth conversation on the societal impact. Of course, VM Ware VM Ware's VM World's 2020 is virtual is a ton of sessions. There's a Cloud City portion. Check out the 60 solution demos. Of course, they ask the expert, Greg, you're in there with Joe Beta Raghu, all the experts, um, engage and check it out. Thank you so much for the insight here on the Cube. Virtual. Thanks for coming on. >>Appreciate the opportunity. Great conversation and good questions. >>Great stuff. Thank you very much. Innovation that vm where it's the heart of their missions always has been, but they're doing well on the business side, Dave. Okay. The cube coverage. They're not there in person. Virtual. I'm John for day. Volonte. Thanks for watching.

(soft music) >> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of VMworld 2020. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2020. This is a virtual conferences as theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, your host, with Stu Miniman,Dave Vellante. We are in theCUBE virtual studios in Palo Alto, California, as well as in the Boston area. Stu, Dave in 2010 was our first VMworld. This is now 2020. What an unpredictable world. In fact, day one summary here for VMworld. This is the theme, a digital foundation for an unpredictable world, What a run? And again let's do a quick summary of day one security multicloud AI machine learning, hybrid cloud, modern apps, and networking is the theme. Dave, your reaction to day one. >> Well, you know, as usual, VMware has a bunch of announcements at its big show. And I guess I would say that one of the top jobs of a CEO is time expansion. And if you look at these announcements, I mean, Pat Gelsinger said, you got to ride the waves or you going to be driftwood. And they have done a phenomenal job of translating engineering into new opportunities and delivering customer value around that. And if you look at networking, the acquisition of NYSERDA and the early part of last decade, you know, multi-cloud is a huge opportunity for them. They're clearly a big player in that space security with the acquisition of carbon black, they've made Kubernetes security, acquisitions and others, there are app defenses in there. So they're going after security. They haven't, you know, made the Mark that they want to make yet, you know, modern apps. It's all about, you know, keeping VMware relevant, you know, project Monterey in hybrid cloud. They're obviously going to be a leader in hybrid cloud. And then the partnership with Nvidia and machine learning AI, it's kind of a checkbox, but VMware is such a huge install base. Everybody wants to do business with them and everybody wants to do business with Nvidia. So to me again, excellent job of time expansion and delivering customer value. >> And Stu, I want to talk about the VM world, you know, with a part of the experience of being there in person this year, there is no VMworld it's virtual. Normally you have the hang space. Do you have the two cube sets here, we have a link to the cube assets. All of our interviews that we normally do at the two sets, go check out the main link but everything is laid out on the webpage. You got cloud city more than 60 solution demos. There's a ton of content So it's kind of an asynchronous, but trying to pick up but a big gap there for normally, which is a real robust expo floor hang space. It's all virtual. Now they got to ask the experts, some other things with Ragu and Joe Beta among other experts, but a different field this year Stu. >> Yeah, definitely. John. I mean, this is one of those must see shows for just a huge ecosystem. We've seen that collision of ecosystem for the last few years. Of course, the epic partnership of VMware and AWS really has dominated a lot of the discussion in the last few years in this ecosystem. So everybody's going to the cloud. We've seen big adoption of the VMware cloud not just on AWS, but Dave touched on some of the announcements here, like with Anjou it's GA with AWS, they're expanding with not only Microsoft Azure but even Oracle OCI. And John. One of the things we look at is, you know, who's driving that innovation change. We've seen a big push by VMware to go deep into cloud native and who's leading that? you know, Joe beta who've we known from the early days of Kubernetes. So much of theCUBE ecosystem is now part of VMware, Greg lavender, the CTO. He was most recently in industry helping transformation of some large companies. And that's the challenge that VMware has going from their dominant position in the data center to live in these cloud environments. We know from a technology standpoint. A VM container bare metal, you can use whatever makes sense, build your applications, go faster, go faster. So, a big change there and the community John, it is greatly distributed and in highly diverse, lots of pockets of interesting conversations, always you're right. So, you know, how do we replicate the hallway track? There's some good things we've seen this week and we're all learning here in the 2020 environment. >> Yeah, we normally we'd be like yelling over the bands and people trampling to see the concert. John legend is going to be playing really quickly in the next few minutes. Dave final word here because the innovation strategy of VMware has to be on full display in this unpredictable world, multicloud AI. It's crazy right now, huge opportunity, big tailwinds cloud native with the snowflake IPO and just ongoing surge. Your thoughts. >> Well, I'll just, tease some of the conversation we're going to have in our deeper analysis on the cube and the cube.net is really that hybrid that Stu talked about. And we're seeing VMware cloud on AWS, really rocket, and we're seeing VMware cloud foundation and the other foundational elements of VMware cloud it's showing up with the data is really having some traction. So that's something that I'm watching very closely. >> Guys. Thanks so much. I know we're part of a virtual program. Thank the VMworld for including us in the virtual program, thanks to the community for all the support of the past 10 years, 2010 was our first Cuba VMworld. Now it's 2020. Thanks for watching.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi I'm Stu Miniman and this is theCUBE's coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon the 2020 European show of course happening virtually and that has put some unique challenges for the people running the show, really happy to welcome to the program she is one of the co-chairs of this event, and she is also a Principal Software Engineer at Splunk, Constance Caramanolis thank you so much for joining us. >> Hi, thank you for having me, I'm really excited to be here, it's definitely an interesting time. >> Alright, so Constance we know KubeCon it's a great community, robust everybody loves to get together there's some really interesting hallway conversations and so much going on, we've been watching, the four or five years we've been doing theCUBE at this show, just huge explosion of the breadth and depth of the content and of course, great people there. Just, if we could start with a little bit, your background, as I mentioned you're the co-chair, you work for Splunk by way of an acquisition, of Omnition try saying that three times fast, and Omnition you were telling me is a company that was bought really before it came out of stealth, but when it comes to the community itself, how long have you been involved in this community? What kind of led you to being co-chair? >> Yeah, I guess I've been involved with the community since 2017, so, I was at Lyft before Omnition Splunk, and I was lucky enough to be one of the first engineers, on Envoy you might've heard of Envoy, sorry I laugh at my own jokes. (laughing) Like my first exposure to KubeCon and seeing the CNCF community was KubeCon Austin and the thing that I was amazed by was actually you said it the hallway tracks, right? I would just see someone and be like, "Hey, like, I think I've seen your code review can I say hi?" And that started back on me at least a little bit involved in terms of talking to more people then they needed people I would work on a PR or in some of the community meetings and that was my first exposure to the community. And so I was involved in Envoy pretty actively involved in Envoy all the way until from 2016 until mid 2018 and then I switched projects and turning it left and did some other stuff and I came back into CNCF community, in OpenTelemetry as of last year, actually almost exactly a year ago now to work on making tracing, I'm going to say useful and the reason why I say useful is that usually people think of tracing as, not as important as metrics and logs, but there is so much to tracing that we tend to undervalue and that's why I got involved with OpenTelemetry and Omnition, because there's some really interesting ways that you could view tracing, use tracing, and you could answer a lot of questions that we have in our day-to-day and so that's kind of that's how I got involved in the second-round community and then ended up getting nominated to be on the co-chair and I obviously said yes, because this is an amazing opportunity to meet more people and have more of that hallway track. >> Alright, so definitely want to talk about OpenTracing, but let's talk about the event first, as we were talking about. >> Yeah. >> That community you always love the speakers, when they finish a session, they get mobbed by people doing questions. When you walk through the expo hall, you go see people so give us a little bit of insight as to how we're trying to replicate that experience, make sure that there's I don't know office hours for the speakers and just places and spaces for people to connect and meet people. >> Yeah, so I will say that like, part of the challenge with KubeCone EU was that it had already been meant to be an in person event and so we're changing it to virtual, isn't going to be as smooth as a KubeCon or we have the China event that's happening in a few weeks or at Boston, right that's still going on, like, those ones are being thought out a lot more as a proper virtual event. So a little bit of the awkwardness of, now everything is going to be online, right? It's like you can't actually shake someone's hand in a hallway but we are definitely trying to be cognizant of when I'm in terms of future load, like probably less content, right. It's harder to sit in front of a screen and listen to everything and so we know that we know we have enough bandwidth we're trying to find, different pieces of software that allow for better Q and A, right? Exactly, like the mobbing after session is go in as a speaker and one as attendee is sometimes like the best part about conferences is you get to like someone might've said something like, "Hey, like this little tidbit "I need to ask you more questions about this." So we're providing software to at least make that as smooth, and I'm putting this in quotation and as you'll be able to tell anyone who's watching as I speak with my hands. Right, so we're definitely trying to provide software to at least make that initial interaction as smooth as possible, maybe as easy as possible we know it's probably going to be a little bit bumpy just because I think it's also our first time, like everyone, every conference is facing this issue so it's going to be really interesting to see how the conference software evolves. It is things that we've talked about in terms of maybe offering their office hours, for that it's still something that like, I think it's going to be really just an open question for all of us, is that how do we maintain that community? And I think maybe we were talking or kind of when I was like planting the seed of a topic beforehand, it's like it's something I think that matters like, how do we actually define community? 'Cause so much of it has been defined off that hallway track or bumping into someone, right? And going into someone's booth and be like, like asking that question there, because it is a lot more less intimidating to ask something in person than is to ask it online when everyone gets to hear your question, right. I know I ask less questions online, I guess maybe one thing I want to say is that for now that am thinking about it is like, if you have a question please ask questions, right? If recording is done, if there's a recording for a talk, the speakers are usually made available online during the session or a bit afterwards, so please ask your questions when things come up, because that's going to be a really good way to, at least have a bit of that question there. And also don't be shy, please, even when I say like in terms of like, when it comes to review, code reviews, but if something's unintuitive or let's say, think about something else, like interact with it, say it or even ask that question on Twitter, if you're brave enough, I wouldn't but I also barely use Twitter, yeah I don't know it's a big open question I don't know what the community is going to look like and if it's going to be harder. >> Yeah, well, one of the things I know every, every time I go to the show conferences, when the keynote when it's always like, okay, "How many people is this your first time at the show?" And you look around and it's somewhere, third or half people attending for the first time. >> Yeah. I know I'm trying to remember if it was year and a half ago, or so there was created a kind of one-on-one track at the show to really help onboard and give people into the show because when the show started out, it was like okay, it was Kubernetes and a couple of other things now you've got the graduated, the incubated, the dozens of sandbox projects out there and then even more projects out there so, cloud-native is quite a broad topic, there is no wrong way where you can start and there's so many paths that you can go on. So any tips or things that we're doing this time, to kind of help broaden and welcome in those new participants? >> Yeah so there's two things, one is actually the one to attract is official for a KubeCon EU so we do have like, there's a few good talks in terms of like, how to approach KubeCon it was meant to originally be for a person but at least helping people in terms of general terms, right? 'Cause sometimes there's so much terminology that it feels like you need to carry, cloud-native dictionary around with you, doing that and giving suggestions there, so that's one of the first talks that's going to be able to watch on KubeCon so I highly suggest that, This is actually a really tough question because a lot of it would have been like, I guess it would have been for me, would have been in person be like, don't be afraid to like, if you see someone that, said something really interesting in a talk you attended, like, even if it's not after the question, just be like, "Hey, I thought what you said was really cool "and I just want to say I appreciate your work." Like expressing that appreciation and just even if it isn't like the most thoughtful question in the world just saying thank you or I appreciate you as a really good way to open things up because the people who are speaking are just as well most people are probably just as scared of going up there and sharing their knowledge as probably or of asking a question. So I think the main takeaway from that is don't be shy, like maybe do a nervous dance to get those jitters out and then after (laughing) and then ask that question or say like, thank you it's really nice to meet you. It's harder to have a virtual coffee, so hopefully they have their own teapot or coffee maker beside them, but offered you that, send an email I think, one thing that is very common and I have a hard time with this is that it's easy to get overwhelmed with how much content there is or you said it's just like, I first feel small and at least if everyone is focusing on Kubernetes, especially like a few years ago, at least and you're like, maybe that there are a lot of people who are really advanced but now that there's so many different people like so many people from all range of expertise in this subject matter experts, and interests that it's okay to be overwhelmed just be like, I need to take a step back because mentally attending like a few talks a day is like, I feel like it's taking like several exams 'cause there's so much information being bombarded on you and you're trying to process it so understand that you can't process it all in one day and that's okay, come back to it, right. It's a great thing is that all of these talks are recorded and so you can watch it another time, and I would say probably just choose like three or four talks that you're really excited about and listen to those, don't need to watch everything because as I said we can't process it all and that's okay and ask questions. >> Some great advice there because right, if we were there in person it was always, attend what you really want to see, are there speakers you want to engage with? Because you can go back and watch on demand that's been one of the great opportunities with the virtual events is you can have access on demand, you can poke and prod, personally I love that a lot of them you can adjust the speed of them so, if it's something that it's kind of an intro talk, I can crank it up to one and a half or 2X speed and get through more content or I can pause it, rewind if I'm not getting it. And the other opportunity is I tell you the last two or three years, when I'm at an event, I try to just spend my time, not looking at my phone, talking to people, but now there's the opportunity, hey, if I can be of help, if anybody in the community has a question or wants to get connected to somebody, we know a lot of people I'm easily reachable on Twitter and I'm not sitting on a plane or in the middle of something that being like, so there is just a great robust community out there, online, and it were great be a part of it. So speaking of projects, you mentioned OpenTelemetry, which is what, your day job works on it's been a really, interesting topic of course for those that don't know the history, there were actually two projects that merged, it was a OpenTracing and OpenCensus created OpenTelemetry, so why don't you bring us up to speed as to where we are with the project, and what people should be looking at at the show and throughout the rest of 2020? >> OpenTelemetry is very exciting, we just did our first beta release so for anyone who's been on the fence of, is OpenTelemetry getting traction, or is it something that you're like at, this is a really great time to want to get involved in OpenTelemetry and start looking into it, if it's as a viable project, but I guess should probably take a step back of what is OpenTelemetry, OpenTelemetry as you mentioned was the merging or the marriage of OpenTracing-OpenCensus, right? It was an acknowledgement that so many engineers were trying to solve the same problem, but as most of us knows, right, we are trying to solve the same problem, but we had two different implementations and we actually ended up having essentially a lot of waste of resources because we're all trying to solve the same problem, but then we're working on two different implementations. So that marriage was to address that because, right it's like if you look at all of the major players, all of the players on OpenTelemetry, right? They have a wide variety of vendor experience, right even as of speaking from the vendor hat, right vendors are really lucky that they get to work with so many customers and they get to see all these different use cases. Then there's also just so many actually end users who are using it and they have very peculiar use cases, too, even with a wide set of other people, they're not going to obviously have that, so OpenTelemetry gets to merge all of those different use cases into one, or I guess not into one, but like into a wide set of implementations, but at least it's maintained by a larger group instead of having two separate. And so the first goal was to unify tracing tracing is really far ahead in terms of implementation,, or several implementations of libraries, like Go, Java, Python, Ruby, like on other languages right now but quite a bit of lists there and there's even a collector too which some people might refer to as an agent, depending on what background they have. And so there's a lot of ways to one, implement tracing and also metrics for your services and also gather that data and manipulate it, right? 'Cause for example, tracings so tracing where it's like you can generate a lot of traces, but sometimes missing data and like the collector is a really great place to add data to that, so going back to the state of OpenTelemetry, OpenTelemetry since we just did a beta release, right, we're getting closer to GA. GA is something that we're tracking for at some point this year, no dates yet but it's something that we're really pushing towards, but we're starting to have a very stable API in terms of tracing a metric was on its way, log was all something we're wrapping up on. It is a really great opportunity to, all the different ways that we are that, we even say like service owners, applications, even business rate that we're trying to collect data and have visibility into our applications, this is a really great way to provide one common framework to generate all that data, to gather all that data and generate all that data. So it was really exciting and I don't know, we just want more users and why we say that is to the earlier point is that the more users that we have who are engaged with community, right if you want to open an issue, have a question if you want to set up a PR please do, like we really want more community engagement. It is a great time to do that because we are just starting to get traction, right? Like hopefully, hopefully in a year or two, like we are one of those really big, big projects right up on a CNCF KubeCon and it's like, let's see how much has grown. And it's a great time to join and help influence a project and so many chances for ownership, I know it's really exciting, the company-- >> Excellent well Constance, it's really exciting >> Yeah. >> Congratulations on the progress there, I'm sure everybody's looking forward to as you said GA later this year, want to give you the final word, yourself and Vicky Cheung as the co-chairs for the event, what's your real goal? What do you hope the takeaway is from this instance of the 2020 European show? Of course, virtual now instead of Amsterdam. I guess like two parts one for the takeaway is that it's probably going to be awkward, right? Especially again going back to the community is that we don't have a lot of that in person things so this will be an awkward interaction, but it's a really great place for us to want to assess what a community means to us and how we interact with the community. So I think it's going to be going into it with an open mindset of just knowing like, don't set the expectations, like any other KubeCon because we just know it won't be right, we can't even have like the after hours, like going out for coffee or drinks and other stuff there so having that there and being open to that being different and then also if you have ideas share it with us, 'cause we want to know how we can make it better, so expect that it's different, but it's still going to provide you with a lot of that content that you've been looking for and we still want to make that as much of a welcoming experience for you, so know that we're doing our best and we're open to feedback and we're here for you. >> Excellent, well Constance thank you so much for the work that you and the team have been doing on. absolutely, one of the events that we always look forward to, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> Alright, lots more coverage of theCUBE at KubeCon-Cloud Native on Europe 2020, I'm Stu Miniman and thanks for watching. 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>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco. It's the theCUBE covering RSA Conference 2020 San Francisco, brought to you by SiliconAngle Media. >> Alright, welcome to theCUBE coverage here at RSA Conference in San Francisco and Moscone Halls, theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE, in a cyber security is all about encryption data and also security. We have a very hot startup here, that amazing guest, Dr. Ellison Anne Williams, CEO and Founder of Enveil just recently secured a $10 million Series A Funding really attacking a real problem around encryption and use. Again, data ,security, analytics, making it all secure is great. Allison, and thanks for coming on. Appreciate your time. >> Thanks for having me. >> So congratulations on the funding before we get started into the interview talking about the hard news, you guys that are around the funding. How long have you guys been around? What's the funding going to do? What are you guys doing? >> Yeah, so we're about three and a half years old as a company. We just announced our Series A close last week. So that was led by C5. And their new US Funds The Impact Fund and participating. Other partners included folks like MasterCard, Capital One Ventures, Bloomberg, Beta 1843, etc. >> So some names jumped in C5 led the round. >> For sure. >> How did this get started? What was the idea behind this three years you've been actually doing some work? Are you going to production? Is it R&D? Is it in market? Give us a quick update on the status of product and solution? >> Yeah, so full production. For production of the product. We're in fact in 2.0 of the release. And so we got our start inside of the National Security Agency, where I spent the majority of my career. And we developed some breakthroughs in an area of technology called homomorphic encryption, that allows you to perform computations into the encrypted domain as if they were in the unencrypted world. So the tech had never existed in a practical capacity. So we knew that bringing seeds of that technology out of the intelligence community and using it to seed really and start the company, we would be creating a new commercial market. >> So look at this, right? So you're at the NSA, >> Correct >> Your practitioner, they're doing a lot of work in this area, pioneering a new capability. And did the NSA spin it out did they fund it was the seed capital there or did you guys bootstrap it >> No. So our seed round was done by an entity called Data Tribe. So designed to take teams in technologies that were coming out of the IC that wanted to commercialize to do so. So we took seed funding from them. And then we were actually one of the youngest company ever to be in the RSA Innovation Sandbox here in 2017, to be one of the winners and that's where the conversation really started to change around this technology called homomorphic encryption, the market category space called securing data in use and what that meant. And so from there, we started running the initial version of a product out in the commercial world and we encountered two universal reaction. One that we were expecting and one that we weren't. And the one that we were expecting is that people said, "holy cow, this actually works". Because what we say we do keeping everything encrypted during processing. Sounds pretty impossible. It's not just the math. And then the second reaction that we encountered that we weren't expecting is those initial early adopters turned around and said to us, "can we strategically invest in you?" So our second round of funding was actually a Strategic Round where folks like Bloomberg beta,Thomson Reuters, USA and Incue Towel came into the company. >> That's Pre Series A >> Pre Series A >> So you still moving along, if a sandbox, you get some visibility >> Correct. >> Then were the products working on my god is you know, working. That's great. So I want to get into before I get into some of the overhead involved in traditionally its encryption there always has been that overhead tax. And you guys seem to solve that. But can you describe first data-at-rest versus data-in-motion and data-in-user. data at rest, as means not doing anything but >> Yeah, >> In flight or in you so they the same, is there a difference? Can you just tell us the difference of someone this can be kind of confusing. >> So it's helpful to think of data security in three parts that we call the triad. So securing data at rest on the file system and the database, etc. This would be your more traditional in database encryption, or file based encryption also includes things like access control. The second area, the data security triad is securing data- in- transit when it's moving around through the network. So securing data at rest and in transit. Very well solution. A lot of big name companies do that today, folks like Talus and we partner with them, Talus, Gemalto, etc. Now, the third portion of the data security triad is what happens to that data when you go use or process it in some way when it becomes most valuable. And that's where we focus. So as a company, we secure data-in-use when it's being used or processed. So what does that mean? It means we can do things like take searches or analytics encrypt them, and then go run them without ever decrypting them at any point during processing. So like I said, this represents a new commercial market, where we're seeing it manifest most often right now are in things like enabling secure data sharing, and collaboration, or enabling secure data monetization, because its privacy preserving and privacy enabling as a capability. >> And so that I get this right, the problem that you solved is that during the end use parts of the triad, it had to be decrypted first and then encrypted again, and that was the vulnerability area. Look, can you describe kind of like, the main problem that you guys saw was that-- >> So think more about, if you've got data and you want to give me access to it, I'm a completely different entity. And the way that you're going to give me access to it is allowing me to run a search over your data holdings. We see this quite a bit in between two banks in the areas of anti-money laundering or financial crime. So if I'm going to go run a search in your environment, say I'm going to look for someone that's an EU resident. Well, their personal information is covered under GDPR. Right? So if I go run that search in your environment, just because I'm coming to look for a certain individual doesn't mean you actually know anything about that. And so if you don't, and you have no data on them whatsoever, I've just introduced a new variable into your environment that you now have to account for, From a risk and liability perspective under something like GDPR. Whereas if you use us, we could take that search encrypt it within our walls, send it out to you and you could process it in its encrypted state. And because it's never decrypted during processing, there's no risk to you of any increased liability because that PII or that EU resident identifier is never introduced into your space. >> So the operating side of the business where there's compliance and risk management are going to love this, >> For sure. >> Is that really where the action is? >> Yes, compliance risk privacy. >> Alright, so get a little nerdy action on this one. So encryption has always been an awesome thing depending on who you talk to you, obviously, but he's always been a tax associate with the overhead processing power. He said, there's math involved. How does homeomorphic work? Does it have problems with performance? Is that a problem? Or if not, how do you address that? Where does it? I might say, well, I get it. But what's the tax for me? Or is your tax? >> Encryption is never free. I always tell people that. So there always is a little bit of latency associated with being able to do anything in an encrypted capacity, whether that's at rest at in transit or in use. Now, specifically with homomorphic encryption. It's not a new area of encryption. It's been around 30 or so years, and it had often been considered to be the holy grail of encryption for exactly the reasons we've already talked about. Doing things like taking searches or analytics and encrypting them, running them without ever decrypting anything opens up a world of different types of use cases across verticals and-- >> Give those use case examples. What would be some that would be low hanging fruit. And it would be much more higher level. >> Some of the things that we're seeing today under that umbrella of secure data sharing and collaboration, specifically inside of financial services, for use cases around anti-money laundering and financial crimes so, allowing two banks to be able to securely collaborate with with each other, along the lines of the example that I gave you just a second ago, and then also for large multinational banks to do so across jurisdictions in which they operate that have different privacy and secrecy regulations associated with them. >> Awesome. Well, Ellison, and I want to ask you about your experience at the NSA. And now as an entrepreneur, obviously, you have some, you know, pedigree at the NSA, really, you know, congratulations. It's going to be smart to work there, I guess. Secrets, you know, >> You absolutely do. >> Brains brain surgeon rocket scientist, so you get a lot of good stuff. But now that you're on the commercial space, it's been a conversation around how public and commercial are really trying to work together a lot as innovations are happening on both sides of the fence there. >> Yeah. >> Then the ICC and the Intelligence Community as well as commercial. Yeah, you're an entrepreneur, you got to go make money, you got shareholders down, you got investors? What's the collaboration look like? How does the world does it change for you? Is it the same? What's the vibe in DC these days around the balance between collaboration or is there? >> Well, we've seen a great example of this recently in that anti-money laundering financial crime use case. So the FCA and the Financial Conduct Authority out of the UK, so public entity sponsored a whole event called a tech spread in which they brought the banks together the private entities together with the startup companies, so your early emerging innovative capabilities, along with the public entities, like your privacy regulators, etc, and had us all work together to develop really innovative solutions to real problems within the banks. In the in the context of this text spread. We ended up winning the know your customer customer due diligence side of the text brand and then at the same time that us held an equivalent event in DC, where FinCEN took the lead, bringing in again, the banks, the private companies, etc, to all collaborate around this one problem. So I think that's a great example of when your public and your private and your private small and your private big is in the financial services institutions start to work together, we can really make breakthroughs-- >> So you see a lot happening >> We see a lot happening. >> The encryption solution actually helped that because it makes sense. Now you have the sharing the encryption. >> Yeah. >> Does that help with some of the privacy and interactions? >> It breaks through those barriers? Because if we were two banks, we can't necessarily openly, freely share all the information. But if I can ask you a question and do so in a secure and private capacity, still respecting all the access controls that you've put in place over your own data, then it allows that collaboration to occur, whereas otherwise I really couldn't in an efficient capacity. >> Okay, so here's the curveball question for you. So anybody Startup Series today, but you really got advanced Series A, you got a lot of funding multiple years of operation. If I asked you what's the impact that you're going to have on the world? What would you say to that, >> Over creating a whole new market, completely changing the paradigm about where and how you can use data for business purposes. And in terms of how much funding we have, we have, we've had a few rounds, but we only have 15 million into the company. So to be three and a half years old to see this new market emerging and being created with with only $15 million. It's really pretty impressive. >> Yeah, it's got a lot of growth and keep the ownership with the employees and the founders. >> It's always good, but being bootstrap is harder than it looks, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Or how about society at large impact. You know, we're living global society these days and get all kinds of challenges. You see anything else in the future for your vision of impact. >> So securing data and your supplies horizontally across verticals. So far we've been focused mainly on financial services. But I think healthcare is a great vertical to move out in. And I think there are a lot of global challenges with healthcare and the more collaborative that we could be from a healthcare standpoint with our data. And I think our capabilities enable that to be possible. And still respecting all the privacy regulations and restrictions. I think that's a whole new world of possibility as well. >> And your secret sauce is what math? What's that? What's the secret sauce, >> Math, Math and grit. >> Alright, so thanks for sharing the insights. Give a quick plug for the company. What are you guys looking to do? Honestly, $10 million in funding priorities for you and the team? What do you guys live in to do? >> So priorities for us? privacy is a global issue now. So we are expanding globally. And you'll be hearing more about that very shortly. We also have new product lines that are going to be coming out enabling people to do more advanced decisioning in a completely secure and private capacity. >> And hiring office locations DC. >> Yes. So our headquarters is in DC, but we're based on over the world, so we're hiring, check out our web page. We're hiring for all kinds of roles from engineering to business functionality >> And virtual is okay virtual hires school >> Virtual hires is great. We're looking for awesome people no matter where they are. >> You know, DC but primary. Okay, so great to have you gone. Congratulations for one, the financing and then three years of bootstrapping and making it happen. Awesome. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for coming ,appreciate it. So keep coming to your RSA conference in Moscone. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching more after this short break (pop music playing)

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. I'm Stewman and my cohost is Justin Warren. And coming back to our program, one of our cube alumni and be coach hair of this coupon cloud native con prion Lyles who is also a senior staff engineer at VMware. Brian, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me on. And do you want to have a shout out of course to a Vicky Chung who is your coach hair. She has been doing a lot of work. She came to our studio ahead of it to do a preview and unfortunately she's supposed to be sitting here but a little under the weather. And we know there was nothing worse than, you know, doing travel and you know, fighting an illness. But she's a little sick today, but um, uh, she knows that we'll, we'll, we'll still handle it. Alright, so Brian, 12,000 people here in attendance. >>Uh, more keynotes than most of us can keep a track of. So, first of all, um, congratulations. Uh, things seem to be going well other than maybe, uh, choosing the one day of the year that it rained in, uh, you know, San Diego, uh, which we we can't necessarily plan for. Um, I'd love you to bring us a little bit insight as to some of the, the, the goals and the themes that, uh, you know, you and Vicki and the, the, the, the, the community we're, we're looking at for, for this coupon. So you're right, let's help thousand people and so many sponsors and so many ideas and so many projects, it's really hard to have a singular theme. But a few months ago we came up with was, well, if, if Kubernetes in this cloud software make us better or basically advances, then we can do more advanced things. >>And then our end users can be more advanced. And it was like a three pong thing. And if you look, go back and look at our keynotes, he would say, Hey, we're looking at our software. Hey, we're looking at an amazing things that we did, especially cat by that five G keynote yesterday. And the notice that we had, it was me talking about how we could look forward and then, and then notice we had in talking about security and then we had Walmart and target talking about how they're using it and, and that was all on purpose. It's trying to tell a story that people can go back and look at. Yeah, I liked the, the message that you were, you were trying to put out there around how we need to make Kubernetes a little bit easier, but how we need to change the way that we talk about it as well. >>So maybe you could, uh, fill us in a little bit more. Let's say, unfortunately, Kubernetes is not going to get an easier, um, that's like saying we wish Linux was easier to use. Um, Linux has a huge ABI and API interface. It's not going to get easier. So what we need to do is start doing what we did with Linux and Linux is the Colonel. Um, this should be some Wars happened over the years and you notice some distributions are easier to use. Another. So if you use the current fedora or you the current Ubuntu or even like mint, it's getting really easy to use. And I'm not suggesting that we need Kubernetes distributions. That's actually the furthest thing, but we do need to work on building our ecosystem on top of Kubernetes because I mentioned like CIS CD, um, observability security audit management and who knows what else we need to start thinking about those things as pretty much first-class items. >>Just as important as Kubernetes. Kubernetes is the Colonel. Yeah. Um, in the keynotes, there's, as you said, there's such a broad landscape here. Uh, uh, I've heard some horror stories that people like, Oh, Hey, where do I start? And they're like, Oh, here's the CNCF landscape. And they're like, um, I can't start there. There's too much there. Uh, you, you picked out and highlighted, um, some of the lesser known pieces. Uh, th there's some areas that are a little bit mature. What, what are some of the more exciting things that you've seen going on right now, your system and this ecosystem? >> Um, I'm not even gonna. I highlighted open policy agent as a, as an interesting product. I don't know if it's the right answer, actually. I kind of wish there was a competitor just so I could determine if it was the right answer. >>But things like OPA and then like open telemetry, um, two projects coming together and having even bigger goals. Uh, let's make a severability easy. What I would also like to see is a little bit more, more maturity and the workflow space. So, you know, the CII and CD space. And I know with Argo and flux merging to Argo flux, uh, that's very interesting. And just a little bit of a tidbit is that I, I also co-chair the CNCF SIG application delivery, uh, special interest group, but, uh, we're thinking about that, that space right there. So I would love to see more in the workflow space, but then also I would like to see more security tools and not just old school check, check, check, but, um, think about what Aqua security is doing. And I'm, I don't know if they're now Snick or S, I don't know how to say it, but, um, there's, there's companies out there rethinking security. >>Let's do that. Yeah. I spoke to Snick a couple of days ago and it's, I'm pretty sure it's sneak. Apparently it stands for, so now you know, which that was news to me that, so now I know interesting. But they have a lot of good projects coming up. Yeah. You mentioned that the ecosystem and that you like that there's competitors for particular projects to kind of explore which way is the right way of doing things. We have a lot of exhibitors here and we have a lot of competitors out there trying to come into this ecosystem. It seems to actually be growing even bigger. Are we going to see a period of consolidation where some of these competing options, we decided that actually no, we don't want to use that. We want to go over here. I mean according to crossing the chasm, yes, but we need to figure out where we are on the maturity chart for, for the whole ecosystem. >>So I think in a healthy, healthy ecosystem, people don't succeed and products go away, but then what we see is in maybe six months or a year or two later, those same founders are out there creating new products. So not everyone's going to win on their first shot. So I think that's fine because, you know, we've all had failures in the past, but we're still better for those failures. Yeah, I've heard it described as a kind of Cambridge and explosion at the moment. So hopefully we don't get an asteroid that comes in and, uh, and hopefully it is out cause yeah. Um, one of the things really, really noticed is, uh, if you went back a year or even two years ago, we were talking about very much the infrastructure, the building blocks of what we had. Uh, I really noticed front and center, especially in the keynote here, talking a lot about the workload. >>You're talking about the application. We're talking about, uh, you know, much more up the stack and uh, from kind of that application, uh, uh, piece down, even, uh, some friends of mine that were new to this ecosystem was like, I don't understand what language they're talking. I'm like, well, they're talking to the app devs. That's why, you know, they're not speaking to you. Is that, was that intentional? >> Well, I mean for me it is because I like to speak to the app devs and I realized that infrastructure comes and goes. I've been doing this for decades now and I've seen the rise of Cisco as, as a networking platform and I've seen their ups and downs. I've worked in security. But what I know is fundamentals are, are just that. And I would like to speak to the developers now because we need to get back to the developers because they create the value. >>I mean the only people who win at selling via our selling Kubernetes are vendors of Kubernetes. So, you know, I work for one and then there's the clouds and then there's other companies as well. So the thing that stays constant are people are building applications and ultimately if Kubernetes and the cloud native landscape can't take care of those application developers remember happened, remember, um, OpenStack, and not in like a negative way, but remember OpenStack, it got to be so hard that people couldn't even focus on what gave value. >> Unlike obvious fact leaves on it. It's still being used a lot in, in service providers and so on. So technology never really goes away completely. It just may fade off and live in a corner and then we move on to whatever's the next newest and greatest thing and then end up reinventing ourselves and having to do all of the same problems again. >>It feels a little bit like that with sometimes the Kubernetes way where haven't we already sold this? Linux is still here, Linux is still, and Linux is still growing. I mean Linux is over Virgin five right now and Linux is adapting and bringing in new things in a Colonel and moving things out to the user land. Kubernetes needs to figure out how to do that as well. Yeah, no Brian, I think it's a great point. You know, I'm an infrastructure guy and we know the only reason infrastructure exists is to serve up that application. What Matt managed to the business, my application, my data. Um, you and your team have some open source projects that you're involved in. Maybe give us a little bit about right? So oxen is a, so let me tell you the quick story. Joe Beda and I talked about how do we approach developers where they are. >>And one thing came up really early in that conversation was, well, why don't we just tell developers where things are broken? So come to find out using Kubernetes object model and a little bit of computer science, like just a tiny little bit. You can actually build this graph where everything is connected and then all you need to do then is determine if for any type of object, is it working or is it not working? So now look at this. Now I can actually show you what's broken and what's not broken. And what makes octane a little bit different is that we also wrapped it with a dashboard that shows everything inside of a Kubernetes cluster. And then we made it extensible. And just, just a crazy thing. I made a plugin API one weekend because I'm like, Oh, that would be kind of cool. And just at this conference alone, nine to 10 people to walk up to me and said, Oh, um, we use oxygen and we use your plugin system. >>And now we've done things that I can't imagine, and I think I might've said this, I know I've said it somewhere recently, but the hallmark of a good platform is when people start creating things you could never imagine on it. And that's what Linux did. That's what Kubernetes is doing. And octane is doing it in the small right now. So kudos to me and me really and my team that's really exciting. So fry, Oakton, Coobernetti's and Tansu both are seven sided. Uh, was, was that, that, that uh, uh, moving to, uh, to, to eight, uh, so no marketing. Okay. And I don't profess to understand what marketing is. Someone just named it. And I said, you know what, I'm a developer. I don't really mind w as long as you can call it something, that's fine. I do like the idea that we should evolve the number of platonic solids. >>There's another answer too. So if you think about what seven is, it, um, people were thinking ahead and said, well, someone could actually take that and use it as another connotation. So I was like, all right, we'll just get out of that. That's why it's called octane, but still nautical theme. Okay, great. Brian. So much going on. You know, even outside of this facility, there's things going on. Uh, any hidden gems that just the, you know, our audience that's watching or people that we'll look back at this event and say, Hey, you know, here's some cool little things there. I mean, they hit the Twitters, I'm sure they'll see the therapy dogs and whatnot, but you know, for the people geeking out, some of those hidden gems that you'd want to share. Um, some of the hidden gems or I'll, I'll throw up to, um, watch what these end-user companies are doing and watch what, like the advanced companies like Walmart and target and capital one are doing. >>I just think there's a lot of lessons to be learned and think about this. They have a crazy amount of money. They're actually investing time in this. It might be a good idea. And other hidden gyms are, are companies that are embracing the, the extension model of Kubernetes through custom resource definitions and building things. So the other day I had the tests on, on the stage, and they're not the only example of this, but running my sequel and Coobernetti's and it pretty much works all well, let's see what we can run with this. So I think that there's going to be a lot more companies that are going to invest in this space and, and, and actually deliver on these types of products. And, and I think that's a very interesting space. Yeah. We, we spoke to Bloomberg just before and uh, we talked to the tests, we spoke to Subaru from the test yesterday. >>Uh, seeing how people are using Kubernetes to build these systems, which can then be built upon themselves. Right. I think that's, that's probably for me, one of the more interesting things is that we end up with a platform and then we build more platforms on top of it. But we, we're creating these higher levels of abstraction, which actually gets us closer to just being able to do the work that we want to do as developers. I don't need to think about how all of the internals work, which again to your keynote today is like, I don't want to write machine code and I just want to solve this sort of business problem. If we can embed that into the, into this ecosystem, then it just makes everyone's lives much, much easier. So you basically, that is my secret. I'm really, I know people hate it for attractions and they say they will, but no one hates an abstraction. >>You don't actually turn the crank in your motor to make the car run. You press the accelerator and it goes. Yeah. Um, so we need to figure out the correct attractions and we do that through iteration and failure, but I'm liking that people are pushing the boundaries and uh, like Joe beta and Kelsey Hightower said is that Kubernetes is a platform of platforms. It is basically an API for writing API APIs. Let's take advantage of that and write API APIs. All right. Well, Brian, thank you. Thank Vicky. Uh, please, uh, you know, share, congratulations to the team for everything done here. And while you might be stepping down as, or we do hope you'll come and join us back on the cube at a future event. No, I enjoyed talking to you all, so thank you. Alright, thanks so much Brian for Justin Warren we'll be back with more of our water wall coverage. CubeCon cloud native con here in San Diego. Thanks for watching the queue.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Live Cube coverage of the emerald 2019 were here in San Francisco, California Mosconi North Lobby. Two sets Our 10th year covering the emerald in our 20th year of Of of our seasons of covering Me to be enterprised Tech. I'm Jeffrey Day Volonte student Justin Warren breaking down day to Cube insights segment. Dave's Do You Do You're on Set Valley set this the meadow set because it's got the steamboat chirping birds behind us. Justin, you've been doing some interviews out on the floor as well. Checking the story's out. All the news is out. Day one was all the big corporate stuff. Today was the product technology news stew. I'll go to you first. What's the assessment on your take on the M, where obviously they're reinventing themselves? Jerry Chen, who we interviewed, said this is Act three of'em where they keep on adding more and more prostitute their core, your thoughts on what's going on. >> So the biggest whore I've seen is the discussion of Tom Zoo, which really talking those cloud native applications. And if you break down VM wear, it's like many companies that said, There's the, you know, core product of the company. It is vey sphere. It is the legacy for what we have and it's not going anywhere, and it's changing. But, you know, then there's the modernization project Pacific howto a bridge to the multi cloud world. How do I bridge Kubernetes is going to come into the sphere and do that? But then there's the application world into the thing I've been. You know, the existential threat to VM, where I've been talking about forever is if we sas if I and cloud If I and all the APS go away, the data centers disappear in Vienna, where dominant, the data center is left out in the cold. So, you know, Pivotal was driving down that that path. They've done a lot of acquisitions, so love directionally where towns who's going time will tell whether they can play in that market. This is not a developer conference. We go to plenty of developer events, so, you know, that's you know, some of the places. I see you know, and and still, you know, >> narrator conference. You're right. Exactly Right. And just I want to get your thoughts, too, because you've been blocking heavily on this topic as well. Dev Ops in general, commenting on the Cube. You know, the reality and the reality, Uh, and the reality of situation from the the announcement. That's a vapor. They're doing some demos. They're really product directions. So product directions is always with VM. Where does it? It's not something that their shameful love, that's what they do. That's what they put out. It's not bakery >> company. It's a statement, A statement of >> direction. We were talking hybrid cloud in 2012 when I asked Pet guess it was a halfway house. He blew a gasket. And now, five years later, the gestation period for hybrid was that. But the end was happy to have the data center back in the back. In the play here, your thoughts on >> Yeah. So this conference is is, I think, a refreshing return to form. So, Vienna, where is as you say, this is an operators conference in Vienna. Where is for operators? It's not Four Dev's. There was a period there where cloud was scary And it was all this cloud native stuff in Vienna where tried to appeal to this new market, I guess tried to dress up and as something that it really wasn't and it didn't pull it off and we didn't It didn't feel right. And now Veum Way has decided that Well, no, actually, this is what they and where is about. And no one could be more Veum where than VM wear. So it's returning to being its best self. And I think you >> can software. They know software >> they know. So flick. So the addition of putting predict Enzo in and having communities in there, and it's to operate the software. So it's it's going to be in there an actual run on it, and they wanna have kubernetes baked into the sphere. So that now, yeah, we'll have new a new absent. Yeah, there might be SAS eps for the people who are consuming them, but they're gonna run somewhere. And now we could run them on van. Wait. Whether it's on Silent at the edge could be in the cloud your Veum wear on eight of us. >> David David so I want to get your thoughts just don't want to jump into because, you know, I love pivotal what they've done. I've always felt as a standalone company they probably couldn't compete with Amazon to scale what's going on in the other things. But bring it back in the fold in VM, where you mentioned this a couple of our interviews yesterday, Dave, and still you illuminate to to the fact of the cloud native world coming together. It's better inside VM wear because they can package pivotal and not have to bet the ranch on the outcome in the marketplace where this highly competitive statements out there so you get the business value of Pivotal. The upside now can be managed. Do your thoughts first, then go to date >> about Pivotal. Yeah, as >> an integrated, integrated is better for the industry than trying to bet the ranch on a pier play >> right? So, John, yesterday we had a little discussion about hybrid and multi cloud and still early about there, but the conversation of past five years ago was very different from the discussion. Today, Docker had a ripple effect with Containers and Veum. Where is addressing that and it made sense for Pivotal Cut to come home, if you will. They still have the Pivotal Labs group that can work with customers going through that transformation and a number of other pieces toe put together. But you ve m where is doing a good enough job to give customers the comfort that we can move you forward to the cloud. You don't have to abandon us and especially all those people that do VM Where is they don't have to be frozen where they are >> a business value. >> Well, I think you've got to start with the transaction and provide a historical context. So this goes back to what I used to call the misfit toys. The Federation. David Golden's taking bits and pieces of of of Dragon Pearl of assets in side of E, M. C and V M wear and then creating Pivotal out of whole cloth. They need an I P O. Michael Dell maintained 70% ownership of the company and 96% voting shares floated. The stock stock didn't do well, bought it back on 50 cents on the dollar. A so what the AIPO price was and then took a of Got a Brit, brought back a $4 billion asset inside of the M wear and paid $900 million for it. So it's just the brilliant financial transaction now, having said all that, what is the business value of this? You know, when I come to these shows, I'd liketo compare what they say in the messaging and the keynotes to what practitioners are saying in the practitioners last night were saying a couple of things. First of all, they're concerned about all the salmon. A like one. Practitioners said to me, Look, if it weren't for all these acquisitions that they announced last minute, what would we be hearing about here? It would have been NSX and V san again, so there's sort of a little concerns there. Some of the practitioners I talked to were really concerned about integration. They've done a good job with Nasasira, but some of the other acquisitions that they may have taken longer to integrate and customers are concerned, and we've seen this movie before. We saw the DMC. We certainly saw the tell. We're seeing it again now, at the end where Veum where? Well, they're very good at integrating companies. Sometimes that catches up to you. The last thing I'll say is we've been pushing You just mentioned it, Justin. On Dev's not a deaf show. Pivotal gives VM where the opportunity to whether it's a different show are an event within the event to actually attract the depths. But I would say in the multi cloud world, VM wears sitting in a good position. With the exception of developers pivotal, I think it's designed to solve that problem. Just tell >> your thoughts. >> Do you think that Veum, where is, is at risk of becoming a portfolio company just like a M A. M. C. Watts? Because it certainly looks at the moment to me like we look at all the different names for things, and I just look at the brand architecture of stuff. There are too many brands. There are too many product names, it's too confusing, and there's gonna have to be a culottes some point just to make it understandable for customers. Otherwise, we're just gonna end up with this endless sprawl, and we saw what the damage that did it. At present, I am saying >> it's a great point and Joseph Joe to cheese used to say that overlap is better than gaps, and I and I agree with him to appoint, you know better until it's not. And then Michael Dell came in and Bar came and said, Look, if we're gonna compete with Amazon's cost structure, we have to clean this mess up and that's what they've been doing it a lot of hard work on that. And so, yeah, they do risk that. I think if they don't do that integration, it's hard to do that. Integration, as you know, it takes time. Um, and so I have Right now. All looks good, right? Right down the middle. As you say, John, are >> multi cloud. Big topic gestation period is going to take five years to seven years. When the reality multi cloud a debate on Twitter last night, someone saying, I'm doing multi cloud today. I mean, we had Gelsinger's layout, the definition of multi cloud. >> Well, he laid out his definition definition. Everyone likes to define its. It's funny how, and we mentioned this is a stew and I earlier on the other set, cloud were still arguing about what cloud means exit always at multi cloud, which kind of multi cloud is a hybrid bowl over. And then you compare that to EJ computing, which computing was always going on. And then someone just came along and gave it a name and everyone just went, huh? OK, and go on with their lives. And so why is cloud so different and difficult for people to agree on what the thing is? >> There's a lot of money being made and lost, That's why >> right day the thing I've said is for multi cloud to be a real thing, it needs to be more valuable to a customer than the sum of its pieces on. And, you know, we know we're gonna be an Amazon reinvent later this year we will be talking, you know? Well, they will not be talking multi cloud. We might be talking about it, but >> they'll be hinting to hybrid cloud may or may not say >> that, you know, hybrid is okay in their world with outpost and everything they're doing in there partnering with VM wear. But you know, the point I've been looking at here is you know, management of multi vendor was atrocious. And, you know, why do we think we're going to any better. David, who hired me nine years ago. It was like I could spend my entire career saying, Management stinks and security needs to be, >> you know, So I want to share lawyers definition. They published in Wicked Bon on Multiply Multi Cloud Hybrid Cloudy, Putting together True Hybrid Cloud Multiply Any application application service can run on any node of the hybrid cloud without rewriting, re compiling or retesting. True hybrid cloud architectures have a consistent set of hardware. Software service is a P I is with integrated network security data and control planes that are native to and display the characteristics of public cloud infrastructure is a service. These attributes could be identically resident on other hybrid nodes independent of location, for example, including on public clouds on Prem or at the edge. That ain't happening. It's just not unless you have considered outposts cloud a customer azure stack. Okay, and you're gonna have collections of those. So that vision that he laid out, I just I think it's gonna >> be David. It's interesting because, you know, David and I have some good debates on this. I said, Tell me a company that has been better at than VM wear about taking a stack and letting it live on multiple hardware's. You know, I've got some of those cars are at a big piece last weekend talking about, you know, when we had to check the bios of everything and when blade Service rolled out getting Veum whereto work 15 years ago was really tough. Getting Veum were to work today, but the >> problem is you're gonna have outposts. You're gonna have project dimensions installed. You're gonna have azure stacks installed. You're gonna have roll your own out there. And so yeah, VM where is gonna work on all >> those? And it's not gonna be a static situation because, you know, when I talk to customers and if they're using V M where cloud on AWS, it's not a lift and shift and leave it there, Gonna modernize their things that could start using service is from the public cloud and they might migrate some of these off of the VM where environment, which I think, is the thing that I am talking to customers and hearing about that It's, you know, none of these situations are Oh, I just put it there and it's gonna live there for years. It's constantly moving and changing, and that is a major threat to VM wears multi clouds, >> Traffic pushes. Is it technically feasible without just insanely high degrees of homogeneity? That's that's the question. >> I I don't think it is and or not. I don't think it's a reasonable thing to expect anyway, because any enterprise you have any M and a activity, and all of a sudden you've got more than one that's always been true, and it will always be true. So if someone else makes a different choice and you buy them, then we'll have both. >> So maybe that's not a fair definition, but that's kind of what what? One could infer that. I think the industry is implying that that is hybrid multi club because that's the nirvana that everybody wants. >> Yeah, the only situation I can see where that could maybe come true would be in something like communities where you're running things on as an abstraction on top off everything else, and that that is a common abstraction that everyone agrees on and builds upon. But we're already seeing how that works out in real life. If >> I'm >> using and Google Antos. I can't easily move it to P. K s or open shift. There's English Kubernetes, as Joe Beta says, is not a magic layer, and everybody builds. On top of >> it, is it? Turns out it's actually not that easy. >> Well, and plus people are taken open source code, and then they're forking it and it building their own proprietary systems and saying, Hey, here's our greatest thing. >> Well, the to the to the credit of CNC, if Kubernetes. Does have a kind of standardized, agreed to get away away from that particular issue. So that's where it stands a better chance and say unfortunately, open stack. So because we saw a bit of that change of way, want to go this way? And we want to go that way. So there's a lot of seeing and zagging, at least with communities. You have a kind of common framework. But even just the implementation of that writing it, >> I love Cooper. I think I've been a big fan of committed from Day one. I think it's a great industry initiative. Having it the way it's rolling out is looking very good. I like it a lot. The comments that we heard on the Cube of Support. Some of my things that I'm looking at is for C N C s Q. Khan Come coop con Coming up is what happened with Kay, native and SDO because that's what I get to see the battleground for above Goober Netease. You see, that's what differentiates again. That's where that the vendors are gonna start to differentiate who they are. So I think carbonates. It could be a great thing. And I think what I learned here was virtualization underneath Kubernetes. It doesn't matter if you want to run a lot. Of'em Furat scale No big deal run Cooper's on top. You want to run in that bare metal? God bless you, >> Go for it. I think this use cases for both. >> That's why I particularly like Tenzer is because for those customers who wanna have a bit of this, cupidity is I don't want to run it myself. It's too hard. But if I trust Vienna where to be able to run that in to upgrade it and give me all of the goodness about operating it in the same way that I do the end where again we're in and I'll show. So now I can have stuff I already know in love, and I can answer incriminating on top of it. >> All right, But who's gonna mess up Multi clouds do. Who's the vendor? I'm not >> even saying it s so you can't mess up something that >> who's gonna think vision, this vision of multi cloud that the entire industry is putting forth who's gonna throw a monkey? The rich? Which vendor? Well, screw it. So >> you know, licensing usually can cause issues. You know, our friend Corey Crane with a nice article about Microsoft's licensing changes there. You know, there are >> lots of Amazon's plays. Oh, yeah. Okay. Amazon is gonna make it. >> A multi clock is not in the mob, >> but yet how could you do multi cloud without Amazon? >> They play with >> control. My the chessboard on my line has been Amazon is in every multi cloud because if you've got multiple clouds, there's a much greater than likely chance >> I haven't been. You know, my feeling is in looking at the history of how multi vendor of all from the I T industry from proprietary network operating systems, many computers toe open systems, D c P I P Web, etcetera. What's going on now is very interesting, and I think the sea so ce of the canary in the coal mine, not Cee Io's because they like multi vendor. They want multiple clouds. They're comfortable that they got staff for that si sos have pressure, security. They're the canary in the coal mine and all the seasons lights, while two are all saying multi clouds b s because they're building stacks internally and they want to create their own technology for security reasons and then build a P eyes and make a P. I's the supplier relationship and saying, Hey, supplier, if you want to work with me, me support my stack I think that is an interesting indication. What that means is that the entire multi cloud thing means we're pick one clown build on, have a backup. We'll deal with multiple clouds if there's workloads in there but primary one cloud, we'll be there. And I think that's gonna be the model. Yes, still be multiple clouds and you got azure and get office 3 65 That's technically multi cloud, >> but I want to make a point. And when pats on we joke about The cul de sac is hybrid cloud a cul de sac, and you've been very respectful and basically saying Yap had okay, But But But you were right, Really. What's hybrid would show me a hybrid cloud. It's taken all this time to gestate you where you see Federated Applications. It's happening. You have on prim workloads, and you have a company that has public cloud workloads. But they're not. Hybrid is >> the region. Some we'll talk about it, even multi. It is an application per cloud or a couple of clouds that you do it, but it's right. Did he follow the sun thing? That we might get there 15 years ago? Is >> no. You're gonna have to insist that this >> data moving around, consistent >> security, governance and all the organizational edicts across all those platforms >> the one place, like all week for that eventually and this is a long way off would be if you go with Serverless where it's all functions and now it's about service composition and I don't care where it lives. I'm just consuming a service because I have some data that I want to go on process and Google happens to have the best machine learning that I need to do it on that data. Also use that service. And then when I actually want to run the workload and host it somewhere else, I drop it into a CD in with an application that happens to run in AWS. >> Guys wrapping up day to buy It's just gonna ask, What is that animal? It must be an influence because hasn't said a word. >> Thistles. The famous blue cow She travels everywhere with me, >> has an INSTAGRAM account. >> She used to have an instagram. She now she doesn't. She just uses my Twitter account just in time to time. >> I learned a lot about you right now. Thanks for sharing. Great to have you. Great as always, Great commentary. Thanks for coming with Bay three tomorrow. Tomorrow. I want to dig into what's in this for Del Technologies. What's the play there when I unpacked, that is tomorrow on day three million. If there's no multi cloud and there's a big tam out there, what's in it for Michael Dell and BM where it's Crown Jewel as the main ingredient guys, thanks for coming stupid in Manchester words, David Want them? John, Thanks for watching day, too. Inside coverage here are wrap up. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon, Europe, 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, we're at the end of two days, wall-to-wall coverage here at KubeCon CloudNativeCon here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days has been Corey Quinn. Corey, we've gone two days, it's five years of Kubernetes, and everybody's been wondering when are you going to sing happy birthday to Fippy and the Kubernetes team? >> Generally, no one wants to hear me sing more than once, because first, I don't have a great singing voice, but more importantly, I insist on calling it Corey-oki, and it just doesn't resonate with people. The puns don't land as well as you'd hope they would. >> Maybe not singing, but you are a master of limericks, I'm told. >> So they tell me, most are unprintable, but that's a separate argument for another time. >> Alright, so, Corey this is your first time at KubeCon. >> It is. >> In CloudNativeCon, we've done some analysis segments, I thought we've had some phenomenal guests, some great end-users, some thought leaders, >> We had some great times. >> You need to pick your favorite right now. >> Oh, everyone's going to pick their own favorite on this one, but I've got to say it was, it would have to be, hands down, Abby Fuller, from AWS. Not that I didn't enjoy all of our guests -- >> Is it because you have AWS on your Lapel pin, and that secretly you do work for Amazon? >> Hardly, just the opposite, in fact. It's that, given that my newsletter makes fun of AWS on a near constant basis, whenever someone says Oh, there's going to be a public thing with Corey and someone from AWS, half the people there are like, Oh, this is going to be good, and the other half turn ghost white and Oh, no, no, this is going to go awfully. And, I'll be honest, it's been a day now, I still don't know which it was, but we had fun. >> Yeah, so, Abby was phenomenal, loved having her on the program, I'm a sucker for the real transformational stories, I tell you Jeff Brewer from Intuit, there's been many times I do a show and I do like, the first interview, and I'm like, I can go home. Here we hear a company that we know, both of us have used this technology, and really walks us through how that transformation happens, some of the organizational things. They've brought some software in and they're contributing to it, so just many aspects of what I look at in a company that's modernizing and going through those pieces. And those kinds of stories always get me excited. >> That story was incredible, and in fact it's almost starting to turn into a truth and labeling issue, for lack of a better term, because this is the Cloudnative Foundation, the software is designed for things that were more or less born in the cloud, and now we're hearing this entire series of stories on transitioning in. And it almost feels like that's not native anymore, that's effectively something that is migrating in. And that's fantastic, it's a sign of maturity, it's great to see. And it's strange to think of that, that in the terms of the software itself is absolutely Cloudnative, it's not at all clear that the companies that are working with this are themselves. And that's okay, that's not a terrible thing. There was some snark from the keynote today about, here's a way to run web logic in Kubernetes, and half the audience was looking at this with a, Eeee, why would I ever want to do that? Because you're running web logic and you need to continue to run web logic, and you can either sit there and make fun of people, you can help them get to a different place than they are now that helps their business become more agile and improves velocity, but I don't think you can effectively do both. >> Yeah, Corey, anything that's over than 5 years old why would you ever want to do that? Because you must always do things the brand new way. Oh wait, let's consider this for a second, lift and shift is something that I cringe a little bit when I hear it because there's too many times that I would hear a customer say I did this, and I hadn't fully planned out how I was doing it, and then I clawed it back because it was neither cheap nor easy, I swiped that credit card and it wasn't what I expected. >> Yeah, I went ahead and decided to run on a cloud provider now my infrastructure runs on someone else's infrastructure, and then a few months go by, and the transition doesn't happen right, I was wrong, it's not running on someone else's infrastructure, it's running on money. What do I do? And that became something that was interesting for a lot of companies, and painful as well. You can do that, but you need to plan the second shift phase to take longer than you think it will, you will not recoup savings in the time frame you probably expect to, but that's okay because it's usually not about that. It's a capability story. >> I had hoped that we learned as an industry. You might remember the old phrase, my mess for less? By outsourcing, and then we'll, Oh wait, I put it in an environment, they don't really understand my business, I can't make changes in the way I want, I need to insource now my knowledge to be able to work close with the business, and therefore no matter where I put my valuable code, my valuable information and I run stuff, I'm responsible for it and even if I move it there as a first step, I need to make sure how do I actually optimize it for that environment from a cost savings, there's lots of things that I can to change those kind of things. >> The one cautionary tale I'm picking up from a lot of these stories has been that you need to make sure the people you're talking to, and the trusted advisors that you have are aligned with your incentives, not their own. No matter where you go, there's an entire sea of companies that are thrilled and lined up to sell you something. And that's not inherently a bad thing, but you need to understand that whenever you're having those conversations, there's a potential conflict of interest. Not necessarily an actual one, but pay attention. You can partner with someone, but at some point your interests do diverge. >> Okay, Corey, what other key learnings or sound bites did you get from some of our speakers this week? >> There were an awful lot of them. I think that's the first time I've ever seen, for example, a project having pieces removed from it, Tiller, in this case, and a bunch of people clapped and cheered. They've been ripped out of Helm, it's oh awesome, normally the only time you see something get ripped out and people cheer is when they finally fire that person you work with. Usually, that person is me, then everyone claps and cheers, which, frankly, if you've met me, that makes sense. For software, it's less common. But we saw that, we saw two open-source projects merging. >> Yeah. >> We had, it was-- >> Open telemetry is the new piece. >> With open senses and open tracing combining, you don't often see that done in anything approaching a responsible way, but we've seen it now. And there's been a lot of people a little miffed that there weren't a whole bunch of new features and services and what not launched today. That's a sign of maturity. It means that there's a stability story that is now being told. And I think that that's something that's very easy to overlook if you're interested in a pure development perspective. >> Just to give a little bit of a cautionary piece there, we had Mark Shuttleworth on the program, he said Look, there are certain emperors walking around the show floor that have no clothes on. Had Tim talking, Joe Beta, and Gabe Monroy on, some of the earliest people working on Kubernetes and they said Look, five years in, we've reached a certain level of maturity, but Tim Hoggin was like, we have so much to do, our sigs are overrunning with what I need to do now, so don't think we can declare success, cut the cake, eat the donuts, grab the t-shirt, and say great let's go on to the next great thing because there is so much more yet to do. >> There's absolutely a consulting opportunity for someone to set up shop and call it imperial tailoring. Where they're going around and helping these people realize that yes, you've come an incredibly long way, but there is so much more work to be done, there is such a bright future. Now I would not call myself a screaming advocate for virtually any technology, I hope. I think that Kubernetes absolutely has it's place. I don't think it's a Penesea, and I don't think that it is going to necessarily be the right fit for every work load. I think that most people, once you get them calmed down, and the adrenaline has worn off, would largely agree with that sentiment. But that nuance often gets lost in a world of tweets, it's a nuanced discussion that doesn't lend itself well to rapid fire, quick sound bites. >> Corey, another thing I know that is near and dear to your heart they brought in diversity scholarships. >> Yes. >> So 56 people got their pass and travel paid for to come here. There's really good, People in the community are very welcoming, yet in the same breath, when they talked about the numbers, and Cheryl was up on stage saying only three percent of the people contributing and making changes were women. And so, therefore, we still have work to do to make sure that, you've mentioned a couple of times on the program. >> Absolutely, and it is incredibly important, but one of the things that gives me some of the most hope for that is how many companies or organizations would run numbers like that and realize that three percent of their contributors are women, and then mention it during a keynote. That's almost unheard of for an awful lot of companies, instead they wind up going and holding that back. One company we don't need to name, wound up trying to keep that from coming out in a court case as a trade secret, of all things. And that's generally, depressingly, what you would often expect. The fact that they called it out, and the fact that they are having a diversity scholarship program, they are looking at actively at ways to solve this problem is I think the right answer. I certainly don't know what the fix is going to be for any of this, but something has to happen, and the fact that they are not sitting around waiting for the problem to fix itself, they're not casting blame around a bunch of different directions is inspirational. I'm probably not the best person to talk on this, but the issue is, you're right, it is very important to me and it is something that absolutely needs to be addressed. I'm very encouraged by the conversations we had with Cheryl Hung and several other people these last couple of days, and I'm very eager to see where it goes next. >> Okay, Corey, what about any things you've been hearing in the back channel, hallway conversations, any concerns out there? The one from my standpoint where I say, well, security is something that for most of my career was top of mine, and bottom of budget, and from day one, when you talk about containers and everything, security is there. There are a number of companies in this space that are starting to target it, but there's not a lot of VC money coming into this space, and there are concerns about how much real focus there will be to make sure security in this ecosystem is there. Every single platform that this is going to live in, whether you talk the public clouds, talk about companies like Red Hat, and everybody else here, security is a big piece of their message and their focus, but from a CNCF if there was one area that I didn't hear enough about at this show, I thought it might be storage, but feels like we are making progress there, so security's the one I come out with and say I want to know more, I want to see more. >> One thing that I thought was interesting is we spoke to Reduxio earlier, and they were talking about one of their advantages was that they are quote enterprise grade, and normally to me that means we have slides with war and peace written on every one. And instead what they talked about was they have not just security built into this, but they have audit ability, they have an entire, they have data lifecycle policies, they have a level of maturity that is necessary if we're going to start winning some of these serious enterprise and regulated workloads. So, there are companies active in this space. But I agree with you, I think that it is not been a primary area of focus. But if you look at how quickly this entire, I will call it a Kubernetes revolution, because anything else takes on religious overtones, it's been such a fast Twitch type of environment that security does get left behind, because it's never a concern or a priority until it's too late. And then it becomes a giant horses left, barn door's been closed story, and I hope we don't have to learn that. >> So, MultiCloud, Corey, have you changed your mind? >> I don't think so, I still maintain that MultiCloud within the absence of a business reason is not a best practice. I think that if you need to open that door for business reasons then Kubernetes is not a terrible way to go about achieving it. But I do question whether it's something everyone needs to put into their system design principles on day one. >> Okay, must companies be born CloudNative, or can they mature into a CloudNative, or we should be talking a different term maybe? >> I don't know if it's a terminology issue, we've certainly seen companies that were born in on-prem environments where the classic example of this is Capital One. They are absolutely going all in on public cloud, they have been very public about how they're doing it. Transformation is possible, it runs on money and it takes a lot more time and effort than anyone thinks it's going to, but as long as you have the right incentives and the right reason to do things it absolutely becomes possible. That said, it is potentially easier, if you're born in the cloud, to a point. If you get ossified into existing patterns and don't pay attention to what's happening, you look at these companies that are 20 years old, and oh they're so backwards they'll never catch up. If you live that long, that will be you someday. So it's very important to not stop paying attention to what the larger ecosystem is doing, because you don't want to be the only person responsible for levels of your stack that you don't want to have to be responsible for. >> Alright, want to give you the final word. Corey, any final things, any final questions for me? >> Fundamentally I think that this has been an incredible event. Where we've had great conversations with people who are focused on an awful lot of different things. There are still a bunch of open questions. I still, for example, think that Serverless is being viewed entirely too much through a lens of functions as a service, but I'm curious as far as what you took away from this. What did you learn this trip that you didn't expect to learn? >> So, it's interesting when we talk about the changing world of OpenSource. There's been some concern lately that what's happening in the public cloud, well, maybe OpenSource will be imploding. Well, it really doesn't feel that way to me when you talk at this show, we've actually used the line a couple of times, Kubernetes is people. It is not the vendors jested, >> Internet of flesh. >> There are people here. We've all seen people that we know that have passions for what they are doing, and that goes above and beyond where they live. And in this community it is project first, and the company you work for is second or third consideration in there. So, there's this groundswell of activity, we're big believers of the world can be changed if, I don't need everybody's full time commitment, if you could just take two percent of the US's watching of TV in a single year, you could build Wikipedia. Clay Sharky, one of my greats that I love from those environments, we believe that the network and communities really can make huge efforts and it's great to see tech for good and for progress and many of the outcomes of that we see here is refreshingly uplifting to kind of pull us out of some of the day-to-day things that we think about sometimes. >> Absolutely, I think that you're right, it has to come from people, it has to come from community, and so far I'm seeing a lot of encouraging signs. One thing that I do find slightly troubling that may or may not resolve itself is that we're still seeing CloudNative defined in terms of what it's not. That said, this is theCUBE, I am not Stu Miniman. >> Well, I am Stu Miniman, you are Corey Quinn. Corey, how's it been two days on theCUBE wall-to-wall through all these things, ready for a nap or fly home? >> I'm ready to call it a week, absolutely. I'm somewhat surprised that at no point have you hit me. And one of these days I am sure we will cross that border. >> Well, definitely, I try not to have any video or photo evidence of that, but thank you Corey, so much. We do have to make a big shout out, first and foremost to the CloudNative Computing Foundation without their partnership, we would not be able to come here. And we do have sponsorship if you look on the lower thirds of the videos you will see our headline sponsor for this show has been Red Hat. Obviously strong commitment in this community, and will be with us here and also in San Diego for KubeCon. Additional shout out to Cisco, Canonical, and Reduxio for their sponsorship here. And all the people that put on this show here, it's a big community, our team. So I want to make a big shout out to my boys here, coming in I've got Pat, Seth, flying in from the West Coast as well as the Tony Day crew Tony, Steve, and John. Thank you guys, beautiful set here, love the gimble with the logo. Branding here, lot's of spectacle, and we always say check out thecube.com to see all the replays as well, see where we will be, reach out with any questions, and thank you as always, for watching theCUBE. (upbeat jingle)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's the Cube, covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back, this is theCube getting towards the end of two days live wall-to-wall coverage here at KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019 in Barcelona. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for this week has been Corey Quinn and happy to have on one of our hosts for this week from the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, Dee Kumar, the Vice President of Marketing, also helps with developer relations. Dee, welcome back to the program. >> Thanks for having me. >> And thank you for having us. We've been having a great time this week, a lot of buzz, a lot of people and obviously always a lot of enthusiasm at the show here. Thanks so much. Alright, so your team has been super busy. I've talked with a lot of them leading up to the show. >> That's right. >> Anybody that knows any show of this kind of magnitude know we're usually pretty exhausted before we get on planes and change all the time zones. So, you know, thank you for holding strong. Give us a little bit about, you know, when we talk marketing, you have a big annual report that came out recently from 2018. Give us some of the highlights of some of the things you've been seeing. >> Yeah, sure. Like you mentioned, you're seeing all the excitement and buzz here so this is our largest open-source developer conference, when compared to the last year we did in Copenhagen. So we have close to 8,000 attendees so we're really excited about that. And you're absolutely right, with that comes, we're so exhausted, but we really appreciate. I think the reason the conference has been so successful is primarily just because of the community engagement, which I highlight in the annual report. So it's a combination of our community, which is the developers, the contributors, also our end users, and the third significant portion of our ecosystem is our members. So we recently just announced that CNCF has crossed over 400 members, our end user community is growing, I think Sheryl mentioned this morning in the keynote, we have about 81 end users and this is phenomenal because end of the day, end users are companies who are not commercializing Cloud Native, but essentially they're using these products or technologies internally, so they are essentially the guinea pig of Cloud Native technologies and it's really important to learn from them. >> Well Dee, and actually it's interesting, you know, celebrating the five years of Kubernetes here, I happened to talk to a couple of the OG's of the community, Joe Beta, Tim Hawkin and Gabe Monroy. And I made a comment to Joe, and I'm like, "Well Google started it, but they brought in the Ecosync and pulled in a lot of other vendors too, it's people. And Gabe said, he's like "yeah, I started Deis and I was one of the people >> Absolutely. >> that joined in." So, we said this community is, it's people more than it's just the collection of the logos on the slides. >> Absolutely, I completely agree. And the other thing I also want to point out is a neutral home, like CNCF, it definitely increases contributions. And the reason I say that is, having a neutral home helps the community in terms of engaging and what is really interesting again, going back to the annual report is Google had a leadership role and most of the contributors were from Google, and now with having a neutral home, I think Google has done a phenomenal job to make sure that the contributors are not just limited to Google. And we're seeing all the other companies participating. We're also seeing a new little graph of independent contributors, who are essentially not associated with any companies and they've been again, very active with their comments or their engagement with overall, in terms of, not just limiting to Kubernetes, but all the other CNCF projects. >> So, this is sort of a situation of being a victim of your own success to some extent, but I've mentioned a couple of times today with various other guests, that this could almost be called a conference about Kubernetes and friends, where it feels like that single project casts an awfully long shadow, when you talk to someone who's vaguely familiar with the CNCF, it's "Oh you mean the Kubernetes people?" "Cool, we're on the same page." How do you, I guess from a marketing perspective begin to move out from under that shadow and become something that is more than a single project foundation? >> Yeah, that's a great question, and the way we are doing that is, I think, Kubernetes has become an economic powerhouse essentially, and what it has done is, it's allowed for other start-ups and other companies to come in and start creating new projects and technologies built around Kubernetes, so essentially, now, you're no longer talking about one single project. It's no longer limited to containers or orchestration, or just micro-services, which was the conversation 3 years ago at KubeCon, and today, what you will see is, it's about talking about the ecosystem. So, the way, from a marketing perspective, and it's actually the reality as well, is Kubernetes has now led to other growing projects, it's actually helped other developers come onboard, so now we are seeing a lot more co-ord, a lot more contributions, and now, CNCF has actually become a home to 35+ projects. So when it was founded, we had about 4 projects, and now it's just grown significantly and I think Kubernetes was the anchor tannin, but now we're just talking about the ecosystem as a whole. >> Dee, I'm wondering if it might be too early for this, but do you have a way of measuring success if I'm someone that has rolled out Kubernetes and some of the associated projects? When I talked to the early Kubernetes people, it's like, Kubernetes itself is just an enabler, and it's what we can do with it and all the pieces that go with it, so I don't know that there's spectrums of how are we doing on digital transformation, and it's a little early to say that there's a trillion dollars of benefit from this environm... but, do you have any measure today, or thoughts as to how we can measure the success of everything that comes out of the... >> Yeah, so I think there was Redmont, they published a report last year and it looks like they're in the process of updating, but it is just phenomenal to see, just based on their report, over 50% of fortune 100 companies have started to use Kubernetes in production, and then I would say, more than, I think, to be accurate, 71% of fortune 100 companies are using containers, so I think, right there is a big step forward. Also, if you look at it last year, Kubernetes was the first project to graduate, so one of the ways we also measure, in terms of the success of these projects, is the status that we have within CNCF, and that is completely community driven, so we have a project that's very early stage, it comes in as a sandbox, and then just based on the community growth, it moves onto the next stage, which is incubating, and then, it takes a big deal to graduate, and to actually go to graduation, so we often refer to those stages of the projects to Jeffery Moore, in terms of crossing the chasm. We've talked about that a lot. And again, to answer your question, in terms of how exactly you measure success is just not limited to Kubernetes. We had, this year, a few other projects graduates, we have 6 projects that have graduated within CNCF. >> How do you envision this unfolding in the next 5 years, where you continue to accept projects into the foundation? At some point, you wind up with what will only be described as a sarcastic number of logos on a slide for all of the included projects. How do you effectively get there without having the Cheesecake Factory menu problem of... the short answer is just 'yes', rather than being able to list them off coz no one can hold it all in their head anymore? >> Great question, we're still working on it. We do have a trail map that is a representation of 'where do I get started?', so it's definitely not prescriptive, but it kind of talks about the 10 steps, and it not only talks about it from a technology perspective, but it also talks about processes and people, so we do cover the DevOp, CICD cycle or pipeline. The other thing I would say is, again, we are trying to find other creative ways to move past the logos and landscape, and you're absolutely right, it's now becoming a challenge, but, you know, our members with 400+ members within CNCF. The other way to actually look at it is, back to my earlier point on ecosystems. So one of the areas that we are looking at is, 'okay, now, what next after orchestration?', which is all about Kubernetes is, now I think there's a lot of talks around security, so we're going to be looking at use cases, and also Cloud Native storage is becoming another big theme, so I would say we now have to start thinking more about solutions, solution, the terminology has always existed in the enterprise world for a long time, but it's really interesting to see that come alive on the Cloud Native site. So now we are talking about Kubernetes and then a bunch of other projects. And so now, it's like that whole journey from start to finish, what are the things that I need to be looking at and then, I think we are doing our best with CNCF, which is still a part of a playbook that we're looking to write in terms of how these projects work well together, what are some common use cases or challenges that these projects together can solve. >> So, Dee, we're here at the European show, you think back a few years ago it was a public cloud, there was very much adoption in North America, and starting to proliferate throughout the world. Alibaba is doing well in China and everything. CNCF now does 3 shows a year, you do North America, you do Europe and we've got the one coming up in China. We actually did a segment from our studio previewing the OpenStack Summit, and KubeCon show there, so maybe focus a little bit about Europe. Is there anything about this community and this environment that maybe might surprise people from your annual data? >> Yes, so if you look at... we have a tool called DevStart, it's open source, anyone can look at it, it's very simple to use, and based on that, we kind of monitor, what are the other countries that are active or, not just in terms of consuming, but who are actually contributing. So if you look at it, China is number 2, and therefore our strategy is to have a KubeCon in China. And then from a Euro perspective, I think the third leading country in terms of contributions would be Europe, and therefore, we have strategically figured out where do we want to host our KubeCon, and in terms of our overall strategy, we're pretty much anchoring to those 3 regions, which is North America, Europe as well as China. And, the other thing that we are also looking at is, we want to expand our growth in Europe as well, and now we have seen the excitement here at our KubeCon Barcelona, so we are looking to offer some new programs, or, I would say, new event types outside of KubeCon. Kind of you want to look at it as mini KubeCons, and so those would explore more in terms of different cities in Europe, different cities in other emerging markets as well. So that's still in the works. We're really excited to have, I would say 2 new event types that we're exploring, to really get the community to run and drive these events forward as well, outside of their participation in KubeCon because, oftentimes, I hear that a developer would love to be here, but due to other commitments, or, their not able to travel to Europe, so we really want to bring these events local to where they are, so that's essentially a plan for the next 5 years. >> It's fascinating hearing you describe this, because, everything you're saying aligns perfectly with what you'd expect from a typical company looking to wind up, building adoption, building footprints etc., Only, you're a foundation. Your fundamental goal at the end of it is user engagement, of people continuing to participate in the community, it doesn't turn into a 'and now, buy stuff', the only thing you have for sale here that I've noticed is a T-shirt, there's no... Okay, you also have other swag as well, not the important part of the story, I'm curious though, as far as, as you wind up putting all of this together, you have a corporate background yourself, was that a difficult transition to navigate, as far as, getting away from getting people to put money in towards something in the traditional sense, and more towards getting involved in a larger ecosystem and community. >> That was a big transition for me, just having worked on the classic B2B commercial software side, which is my background, and coming in here, I was just blown away with how people are volunteering their time and this is not where they're getting compensated for their time, it's purely based on passion, motivation and, when I've talked to some key community organizers or leaders who have done this for a while, one of the things that has had an impact on me is just the strong core values that the communities exhibit, and I think it's just based on that, the way they take a project and then they form a working group, and then there are special interest groups that get formed, and there is a whole process, actually, under the hood that takes a project from where Kubernetes was a few years ago, and where it is today, and I think it's just amazing to see that it's no longer corporate driven, but it's more how communities have come together, and it's also a great way to be here. Oftentimes... gone are the days where you try to set up a meeting, people look forward to being at KubeCon and this is where we actually get to meet face-to-face, so it's truly becoming a networking event as well, and to build these strong relationships. >> It goes even beyond just users, I mean, calling this a user conference would not... it would be doing it a bit of disservice. You have an expo hall full of companies that are more or less, in some cases, sworn enemies from one another, all coexisting peacefully, I have seen no fist-fights in the 2 days that we've been here, and it's fascinating watching a community effort get corporate decision makers and stakeholders involved in this, and it seems that everyone we've spoken to has been having a good time, everyone has been friendly, there's not that thousand yard stare where people are depressed that you see in so many other events, it's just something I've never experienced before. >> You know, that's a really amazing thing that I'm experiencing as well. And also, when we do these talks, we really make it a point to make sure that it's not a vendor pitch, and I'm not being the cop from CNCF policing everyone, and trying to tell them that, 'hey, you can't have a vendor pitch', but what I'm finding is, even vendors, just did a silverless talk with AWS, and he's a great speaker, and when he and I were working on the content, he in fact was, "you know, you're putting on that hat", and he's like, "I don't want to talk about AWS, I really want to make sure that we talk about the underlying technology, focusing on the projects, and then we can always build on top, the commercial aspect of it, and that's the job for the vendor. So, I think it's really great collaboration to see how even vendors put on the hat of saying, 'I'm not here to represent my products, or my thing', and of course they're here to source leads and stuff, but at the end of the day, the underlying common protocol that's already just established without having explicit guidelines saying, 'this is what you need to be following or doing', it's just like an implicit understanding. Everyone is here to promote the community, to work with the community, and again, I think I really want to emphasize on the point that people are very welcoming to this concept of a neutral home, and that really had helped with this implicit understanding of the communities knowing that it's not about a vendor pitch and you really want to think about a project or a technology and how to really use that project, and what are the use cases. >> It's very clear, that message has resonated well. >> Dee, thank you. We've covered a lot of ground, we want to give you the final word, anything else? We've covered the event, we've covered potential little things and the annual report. Any last words you have for us that you want people to take away? >> Not really, I think, like I said, it's the community that's doing the great work. CNCF has been the enabler to bring these communities together. We're also looking at creating a project journey it terms of how these projects come into CNCF, and how CNCF works with the communities, and how the project kind of goes through different stages. Yeah, so there are a lot of great things to come, and looking forward to it. >> Alright, well, Dee, thank you so much for all of the updates, and a big thank you, actually, to the whole CNCF team for all they've done to put this together. We really appreciate the partnership here. For Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman. Back to wrap 2 days, live coverage, here at KubeCon, Cloud Native Con 2019, Thanks for watching the Cube. >> Thank you.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread. Welcome back a few, but our way Our red have some twenty nineteen >> center along with Sue Mittleman. I'm John Walls were now joined by Robin Goldstone, who's HBC solution architect at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Hello, Robin >> Harrier. Good to see you. I >> saw you on the Keystone States this morning. Fascinating presentation, I thought. First off for the viewers at home who might not be too familiar with the laboratory If you could please just give it that thirty thousand foot level of just what kind of national security work you're involved with. >> Sure. So yes, indeed. We are a national security lab. And you know, first and foremost, our mission is assuring the safety, security reliability of our nuclear weapons stockpile. And there's a lot to that mission. But we also have broader national security mission. We work on counterterrorism and nonproliferation, a lot of of cyber security kinds of things. And but even just general science. We're doing things with precision medicine and and just all all sorts >> of interesting technology. Fascinating >> Es eso, Robin, You know so much and i t you know, the buzzword. The vast months years has been scaled on. We talk about what public loud people are doing. It's labs like yours have been challenged. Challenge with scale in many other ways, especially performance is something that you know, usually at the forefront of where things are you talked about in the keynote this morning. Sierra is the latest generation supercomputer number two, you know, supercomputer. So you know, I don't know how many people understand the petaflop one hundred twenty five flops and the like, but tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of the why and the what of that, >> right? So So Sierra's a supercomputer. And what's unique about these systems is that we're solving. There's lots of systems that network together. Maybe you're bigger number of servers than us, but we're doing scientific simulation, and that kind of computing requires a level of parallelism and very tightly coupled. So all the servers are running a piece of the problem. They all have to sort of operate together. If any one of them is running slow, it makes the whole thing goes slow. So it's really this tightly couple nature of super computers that make things really challenging. You know, we talked about performance. If if one servers just running slow for some reason, you know everything else is going to be affected by that. So we really do care about performance. And we really do care about just every little piece of the hardware you know, performing as it should. So So I >> think in national security, nuclear stockpiles. Um I mean, there is nothing more important, obviously, than the safety and security of the American people were at the center of that. Right? You're open source, right? You know, how does that work? How does that? Because as much trust and faith and confidence we have in the open source community. This is an extremely important responsibility that's being consigned more less to this open source community. >> Sure. You know, at first, people do have that feeling that we should be running some secret sauce. I mean, our applications themselves or secret. But when it comes to the system software and all the software around the applications, I mean, open source makes perfect sense. I mean, we started out running really closed source solutions in some cases, the perp. The hardware itself was really proprietary. And, of course, the vendors who made the hardware proprietary. They wanted their software to be proprietary. But I think most people can resonate when you buy a piece of software and the vendor tells you it's it's great. It's going to do everything you needed to do and trust us, right? Okay, But at our scale, it often doesn't work the way it's It's supposed to work. They've never tested it. Our skill. And when it breaks, now they have to fix. They're the only ones that can fix it. And in some cases we found it wasn't in the vendors decided. You know what? No one else has one quite like yours. And you know, it's a lot of work to make it work for you. So we're just not going to fix and you can't wait, right? And so open source is just the opposite of that, right? I mean, we have all that visibility in that software. If it doesn't work for our needs, we can make it work for our needs, and then we can give it back to the community. Because even though people are doing things that the scale that we are today, Ah, lot of the things that we're doing really do trickle down and can be used by a lot of other people. >> But it's something really important because, as you said, you used to be and I was like, OK, the Cray supercomputer is what we know, You know, let's use proprietary interfaces and I need the highest speed and therefore it's not the general purpose stuff. You moved X eighty six. Lennox is something that's been in the shower computers. Why? But it's a finely tuned version there. Let's get you know, the duct tape and baling wire. And don't breathe on it once you get it running. You're running well today and you talk a little bit about the journey with Roland. You know, now on the Super Computers, >> right? So again, there's always been this sort of proprietary, really high end supercomputing. But about in the late nineteen nineties, early two thousand, that's when we started building these these commodity clusters. You know, at the time, I think Beta Wolf was the terminology for that. But, you know, basically looking at how we could take these basic off the shelf servers and make them work for our applications and trying to take advantage of a CZ much commodity technologies we can, because we didn't want to re invent anything. We want to use as much as possible. And so we've really written that curve. And initially it was just red hat. Lennox. There was no relative time, but then when we started getting into the newer architectures going from Mexico six. Taxi, six, sixty for and Itanium, you know the support just wasn't there in basic red hat and again, even though it's open source and we could do everything ourselves, we don't want to do everything ourselves. I mean, having an organization having this Enterprise edition of Red Hat having a company stand behind it. The software is still open. Source. We can look at the source code. We can modify it if we want, But you know what at the end of the day, were happy to hand over some of our challenge is to Red Hat and and let them do what they do best. They have great, you know, reach into the into the colonel community. They can get things done that we can't necessarily get done. So it's a great relationship. >> Yes. So that that last mile getting it on Sierra there. Is that the first time on one kind of the big showcase your computer? >> Sure. And part of the reason for that is because those big computers themselves are basically now mostly commodity. I mean, again, you talked about a Cray, Some really exotic architecture. I mean, Sierra is a collection of Lennox servers. Now, in this case, they're running the power architecture instead of X eighty six. So Red hat did a lot of work with IBM to make sure that that power was was fully supported in the rail stack. But so, you know, again that the service themselves somewhat commodity were running and video GP use those air widely used everywhere. Obviously big deal for machine learning and stuff that the main the biggest proprietary component we're still dealing was is thie interconnect. So, you know, I mentioned these clusters have to be really tightly coupled. They that performance has to be really superior and most importantly, the latent see right, they have to be super low late and see an ethernet just doesn't cut it >> So you run Infinite Band today. I'm assuming we're >> running infinite band on melon oxen finna ban on Sierra on some of our commodity clusters. We run melon ox on other ones. We run intel. Omni Path was just another flavor of of infinite band. You know, if we could use it, if we could use Ethernet, we would, because again, we would get all the benefit in the leverage of what everybody else is doing, but just just hasn't hasn't quite been able to meet our needs in that >> area now, uh, find recalled the history lesson. We got a bit from me this morning. The laboratory has been around since the early fifties, born of the Cold War. And so obviously open source was, you know? Yeah, right, you know, went well. What about your evolution to open source? I mean, ahs. This has taken hold. Now, there had to be a tipping point at some point that converted and made the laboratory believers. But if you can, can you go back to that process? And was it of was it a big moment for you big time? Or was it just a kind of a steady migration? tour. >> Well, it's interesting if you go way back. We actually wrote the operating systems for those early Cray computers. We wrote those operating systems in house because there really was no operating system that will work for us. So we've been software developers for a long time. We've been system software developers, but at that time it was all proprietary in closed source. So we know how to do that stuff. The reason I think really what happened was when these commodity clusters came along when we showed that we could build a, you know, a cluster that could perform well for our applications on that commodity hardware. We started with Red Hat, but we had to add some things on top. We had to add the software that made a bunch of individual servers function as a cluster. So all the system management stuff the resource manager of the thing that lets a schedule jobs, batch jobs. We wrote that software, the parallel file system. Those things did not exist in the open source, and we helped to write those things, and those things took on lives of their own. So luster. It's a parallel file system that we helped develop slow, Erm, if anyone outside of HBC probably hasn't heard of it, but it's a resource manager that again is very widely popular. So the lab really saw that. You know, we got a lot of visibility by contributing this stuff to the community. And I think everybody has embracing. And we develop open source software at all different layers. This >> software, Robin, you know, I'm curious how you look at Public Cloud. So, you know, when I look at the public odd, they do a lot with government agencies. They got cloud. You know, I've talked to companies that said I could have built a super computer. Here's how long and do. But I could spend it up in minutes. And you know what I need? Is that a possibility for something of yours? I understand. Maybe not the super high performance, But where does it fit in? >> Sure, Yeah. I mean, certainly for a company that has no experience or no infrastructure. I mean, we have invested a huge amount in our data center, and we have a ton of power and cooling and floor space. We have already made that investment, you know, trying to outsource that to the cloud doesn't make sense. There are definitely things. Cloud is great. We are using Gove Cloud for things like prototyping, or someone wants a server, that some architecture, that we don't have the ability to just spin it up. You know, if we had to go and buy it, it would take six months because you know, we are the government. But be able to just spin that stuff up. It's really great for what we do. We use it for open source for building test. We use it to conferences when we want to run a tutorial and spin up a bunch of instances of, you know, Lennox and and run a tutorial. But the biggest thing is at the end of the day are our most important work. Clothes are on a classified environment, and we don't have the ability to run those workloads in the cloud. And so to do it on the open side and not be ableto leverage it on the close side, it really takes away some of the value of because we really want to make the two environments look a similar is possible leverage our staff and and everything like that. So that's where Cloud just doesn't quite fit >> in for us. You were talking about, you know, the speed of, Of of Sierra. And then also mentioning El Capitan, which is thie the next generation. You're next, You know, super unbelievably fast computer to an extent of ten X that off current speed is within the next four to five years. >> Right? That's the goal. I >> mean, what those Some numbers that is there because you put a pretty impressive array up there, >> right? So Series about one hundred twenty five PETA flops and are the big Holy Grail for high performance computing is excess scale and exit flop of performance. And so, you know, El Capitan is targeted to be, you know, one point two, maybe one point five exit flops or even Mohr again. That's peak performance. It doesn't necessarily translate into what our applications, um, I can get out of the platform. But the reason you keep sometimes I think, isn't it enough isn't one hundred twenty five five's enough, But it's never enough because any time we get another platform, people figure out how to do things with it that they've never done before. Either they're solving problems faster than they could. And so now they're able to explore a solution space much faster. Or they want to look at, you know, these air simulations of three dimensional space, and they want to be able to look at it in a more fine grain level. So again, every computer we get, we can either push a workload through ten times faster. Or we can look at a simulation. You know, that's ten times more resolved than the one that >> we could do before. So do this for made and for folks at home and take the work that you do and translate that toe. Why that exponential increase in speed will make you better. What you do in terms of decision making and processing of information, >> right? So, yeah, so the thing is, these these nuclear weapons systems are very complicated. There's multi physics. There's lots of different interactions going on, and to really understand them at the lowest level. One of the reasons that's so important now is we're maintaining a stockpile that is well beyond the life span that it was designed for. You know, these nuclear weapons, some of them were built in the fifties, the sixties and seventies. They weren't designed to last this long, right? And so now they're sort of out of their design regime, and we really have to understand their behaviour and their properties as they age. So it opens up a whole nother area, you know, that we have to be able to floor and and just some of that physics has never been explored before. So, you know, the problems get more challenging the farther we get away from the design basis of these weapons, but also were really starting to do new things like eh, I am machine learning things that weren't part of our workflow before. We're starting to incorporate machine learning in with simulation again to help explore a very large problem space and be ableto find interesting areas within a simulation to focus in on. And so that's a really exciting area. And that is also an area where, you know, GPS and >> stuff just exploded. You know, the performance levels that people are seeing on these machines? Well, we thank you for your work. It is critically important, azaz, we all realize and wonderfully fascinating at the same time. So thanks for the insights here on for your time. We appreciate that. >> All right, Thanks for >> thanking Robin Goldstone. Joining us back with more here on the Cube. You're watching our coverage live from Boston of Red Hat Summit twenty nineteen.