>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by >>Hello from Las Vegas, live at the Bellagio. Lisa Martin, with Dave Volante. We are at UI path forward for, like I said, in Las Vegas. So great to be in person, sitting at an anchor desk with a co-anchor. And I guess we're going to be talking about deploying new technologies and a large global enterprise. Nikki Harris is here. Manage your application, performing platform engineering services at Chevron Vicky. Welcome to the program. Hey, thank >>You. Happy to be >>Here. So isn't it great to be we're outdoors. Nice that everyone's nice and safe, but great to be back at an in-person event where so many hallway conversations can spark more innovation. That's one of the things I think a lot of us have been missing in the last 18 months. You've been with Chevron almost 15 years, but this is, we're talking about 142 year old organization. Talk to me about the evolution of it that you've seen. >>Very happy to do that. Um, a lot of, uh, I would say the greatest jump forward we saw in cloud and we started our cloud transformation before digital transformation came along. Uh, but it was the, really the thing that enabled us to, uh, be ready, I would say for the extra value, the extra push. And so we were so happy to be well positioned. So we started our cloud journey in 2017 and, uh, between 2018 and 19, because of the investments in automation, it just took off and today we're still receiving the benefits of that. Um, but prior to that, it took a little bit longer. Uh, also we had an agile transformation, which was very helpful because we can't really afford to move at waterfall speed anymore. Um, and so cloud and agile really helped boost that and get us started. >>So whenever we get a practitioner on, we have a million questions. So, so can we start with your role? Are you in it, that's where you're in that organization or >>I am in it. So I'm a product line manager. We support really the core for software engineers and citizen developers. So on the software engineering side, CICB pipeline, dev ops tooling, code frameworks, all of that to make our software engineers more productive and on the citizen development side, same philosophy, we want to make them more productive, not worry about how do I do it, just how to apply their business logic. So we support the citizen development programs and the underlying platforms. >>So they gave, when you talked about cloud in 2017, are you talking about infrastructure as a service platform, as a service SAS, all of the above, cause cause you have to do, I'm sure you were doing SAS before then, but how do you think about cloud? >>So that's a great question. Yes. We were always doing SAS and we continue to do SAS. Uh, so, and Chevron was one of the earlier adopters of UI path for cloud. We do want to be cloud first, always, always, always. And we are trying to really reduce and restrict our on-prem footprint. Um, but the automation we started in kind of 20 17, 20 18 is, um, I would call it infrastructure as code. Uh, so deploying everything with code, um, the same way all the time, uh, which was partly a technical shift, but also a really big cultural shift that instead of having people doing the same task, you know, 400 different ways, which is hard to sustain, it's hard to troubleshoot. Uh, so we took the pain in, in building that and there's a lot of pain in, in the transformation itself, but the upside when you're finished is amazing. >>Yeah. So that's what you just answered. My next question, which was what is the catalyst? It was seeing the clouds potential for programmable infrastructure. And that sounds like it was a game changer. >>It was a huge game changer. And that really, uh, on the software engineering side, the whole way we do infrastructure, the way we program everything. Uh, but we also found we're not touching part of the organization with that transformation. And that's where the citizen development programs and RPA comes in is, you know, Hey, we're really proud of ourselves. We did so well, but how do we get to the edge, uh, where we haven't been able to have the same impact with that automation >>For an organization that I mentioned 142 years young will say, I guess you could say old for an organization young for a person where in, in terms of the cultural change, that's hard to, to manifest across such a historic history institution. Talk to me about the appetite for automation. You said you guys started doing automation, bringing it into the organization and in the last five years or so, what's been the appetite across different lines of business to embrace it, to see it as an advantage rather than taking jobs away. >>Uh, so there's never appetite for automation on its own because you're changing someone's process. Um, but what there is appetite for is the results. Uh, and also, uh, we went through a large organizational transformation. So in addition to value, um, you know, bottom line cost savings, we have people who are just improving their, their workflow for themselves. And so there's also a sense of empowerment for them. So I would say the empowerment and then the results are much bigger drivers. And then you say, oh, if you want that, yes, by the way, this is how we get that. But it's not, you know, automation for automation sake. Uh, but people understand, they understand now the value of it and they, the more they learn, they understand that, um, doing one process 25 ways, it's not a way to run your business, >>Right. How to actually drive this outcomes that they're looking for. >>So how did it start? When did it start in? It was an it led initiative or was it a department? >>It led, >>Yes. Okay. And so, so focused on the it department. So you automating certain tasks within it or, or not necessarily >>Necessarily. So, um, it led, but as the foundation for all the business units. So again, we focus on the core, but we also focus on enablement. So anybody who's a builder maker, developer out there in the business units, we just want to make their job easier, better, faster, um, just for the business logic. So then we'd bring them in and say, here's how you do it. Um, but they bring the best ideas, right? They know their business processes. I don't know their business processes. If I sat down and said, here's where automation value is, um, we wouldn't be doing so well. They know where it is. Uh, we just give them the tools to, to find that value. And you know, it's extraordinary how they find it. If there's a lot of manual processes out there, >>A common story, when you talk to UI path, customers, that'll start maybe one person in a department and then people looking over her shoulder going, oh, I want some of that. And then it explodes. It sounds like you were taking a much more whole house approach. >>We are taking a whole house approach, but we did start early with POC. Uh, and so, and then those proved their value pretty easily and pretty quickly. And so then it was a determination of, Hey, we would like to do something bigger here than just leave this technology out there. We're just leaving all this value on the table. We're leaving all this skill sets, all this passion, all this enthusiasm in our citizen community. We don't think we can transform as a corporation. If we leave that energy motivation skill on the table >>And some color to the ROI. Have you said to POC, you're a good, quick hit, obviously. Could you give us some details on that? What can you tell us? >>What can I tell you? Okay, well, so, um, from when we started the program three years, I think we're showing about $6 million of return. Um, we, we see the value just in time savings like everybody else does. And we have, so that's with about, um, 300 automations, six over 600,000 hours I think saved. Uh, but first year it's just so easy. You can see it. It's not hard to calculate it, the hour saving, very simple calculation. So anybody who's concerned about ROI, it's so simple, it's so easy. You should be able to find it in your first year if you're not finding it in your first year. Um, I mean, obviously it grows, but if you're not finding some return in the first year, I would say, you know, take a look at what you need to adjust because it's not that hard >>CFO. Sorry. One more question. If I may, and your CFO saw that, okay. Time-savings essentially was the business result, but it wasn't necessarily it, was it hard or were they, did your CFO say, ah, that's kind of soft dollars or is it >>Both hard and soft? So, and yeah, we would never put a dollar sign next to something that doesn't hit the income statement. So I'm very careful about that. Right. Um, but yeah, it's both because some times, um, somebody actually changed their group first and they're feeling the process pain after. And so the healing of automating something. So the, just the two people can do it. Uh, we've seen that use case as well. It's harder to capture any savings because it's not really savings there, but it's, it's um, more of a job satisfaction. So there's a lot of soft benefits that go with it, but we don't usually, you know, commit, turn that into dollars. That's not very valuable. Yeah. >>Use those employee Mo employees that are far more productive are eventually helping the customers be more productive as well. I think they're directly linked. Well, you said you found ROI quickly and that's something that you iPad says about itself that customers are generally achieving an ROI of a break even within months alone. So when you talk to other professionals in oil and gas, how do you talk to them about automation being really a critical driver of that business's success and transformation? >>Uh, I think in large enterprises, whether they're in our sector or not, some of them just struggle with the sheer scale, it's almost like, where do I start? So they do see the value. Uh, but it's more about how do I, how do I start this thing? How do I scale this thing? How do I structure a program? Um, I have not found anyone that says, I don't believe the value proposition again, it's pretty easy to do. >>And the RPA POC started after cloud. Right. So it was, am I right about that? It was 18, 19 timeframe. >>Uh, I would say actually starting around the same time were done in, in 2017. So yeah. >>And so, uh, was there anything specific in your industry that you targeted? I mean, you obviously wanted to hit the high value items first. Was there anything particular there? >>Um, that's a really good question. I think we, our journey looks like other companies kind of, they start with the back office. Those are the easiest processes to, for people to understand. And just in terms of, you know, where do I have a heavy manual load? Uh, so some of our first work was with finance in currency conversion. So pretty, pretty manual intensive for a global company. Pretty big deal, lots of immediate value. Uh, but if you think of, let's talk about Wells. So, you know, we have systems for mapping, Wells drilling, Wells, uh, you'd be surprised some of those systems look kind of like your ERP. They have kind of the same challenges. So, um, as we extend outside of traditional kind of HR finance audit practices into the rest of our business, the use cases are similar. Um, I've got disparate documents. I have systems that don't talk to each other. Well, I have somebody who S and we have a lot of partners. So if you're in a project with five partners and everybody's producing a different type of document or something, how do you make some sense out of that? Uh, so use cases like that, um, we're finding in our upstream and downstream businesses also, >>And you did an RFP at the time, wrote a bunch of vendors and ran them through the cycles or >>Comparisons yeah. Early on >>While UI path, what was it about >>Strong user experience? So, uh, because this is primarily citizen enabled and so that feedback, Hey, could I learn this quickly? Was it easy to use? Those were really the most important things in selection. I mean, we always look at costs that's important too. Um, but also a company's position. So their ability to scale and grow. Um, there's a lot of people in this market, uh, because of the interest in automation. Uh, so part of it is also understanding the strength of the company behind as well. >>One of the things that was mentioned in the keynote this morning, I think it was a stat from Gartner that in 2016, or was about 2% of, um, automateable processes were automated fast forward. Now it's about 25%. There's still a tremendous amount of potential for organizations and any industry to deploy automation. You've said, you've got about 300 plus automation so far. What are some of the things that are coming next that you can see, >>Sure. What is our upside, or where do we stop or our growth taper? Um, I don't think we know, uh, we get so much from our user community in terms of what can we do now? Um, there are so empowered, so I wouldn't want to set limits on ourselves in terms of what we can do. Uh, but certainly we're looking at, um, text analytics, really, how do we manage that document? How do we extract that data, use models to get that into our data lake? Uh, but there's still always the work of finding still that last mile of process. There's many parts of our business still untouched. And so we don't, we don't let, or we don't want to let up on that. That's still important to go after all of that and keep the programs going >>W Chevron huge company. And you've got probably one of everything that's ever been invented in technology. We're seeing a trend where a lot of these, these software companies are embedding RPA into their platforms. You see it with the ERP vendors, uh, uh, acquisitions being made for service management, you know, big cloud guys ha have, uh, you know, on and on and on. And, and so how do you think about those sort of vertically integrated stacks versus what you're doing with UI path? >>So for me, I think of them the same as a code extension. So, because that was more popular a few years ago on those big platforms and you're right, we have one of everything. Um, but it's important to when you think of investment and ROI, uh, where do we actually spend money? It's in maintaining the capability, keeping the programs, doing the training, that's an investment. And so when someone comes to me and says, can you support some other tool? Um, I usually say maybe not, is there a business case for that because we want to be able to deploy to the whole enterprise, um, that isn't to say that somebody who's got a workflow that stays within that platform, that that might be inappropriate use for them, but a very sure it's not an appropriate use to extend it out of that platform somewhere else. >>Uh, and so we draw the line really, what do we, enterprise automation. We want to be very careful about the tools we use for that. And, and the reason for that is not just security, reliability, and the ability to scale those programs. Because when someone calls me and says, my stuff doesn't scale, it's like ours does. Um, and so, but the org capability investment is also it's, it's not small. Uh, and so if you've got to believe in this, you have to keep feeding it. You have to keep training new people, bringing them on. Uh, and so you can't really do that across 12 platforms, right? >>You're creating your own flywheel and that's how you can accelerate ROI. Right? >>Correct. Although, you know, the citizen developers are driving the wheel for sure. >>You, as in Chevron mean not Vicki, Inc. >>Vicky, thank you so much. We are out of time, but thanks for stopping by talking to us about automation in a large global enterprise at Chevron. I won't look at Chevron at the same again. Now I know how forward-thinking they are and how much they are embracing technology. We appreciate your time. >>It's been my pleasure. Thank you both. >>All right. For Dave Volante and Lisa Martin, we live at the Bellagio in Las Vegas UI path forward for we'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Hey everyone, welcome to this Cube Conversion here in the Palo Alto Cube Studios, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Vicki Cheung who's the engineering manager at Lyft, and also the co-chair of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, part of the CNCF, part of the awesome community that's doing all the Cloud Native, been there from the beginning, you guys have been driving it, Vicki welcome, to the Cube Conversation. >> Thank you. >> So I got to ask you this year, more than ever, Cloud Native is the biggest wave, you're starting to everything emerge, hybrid cloud, multicloud right around the corner, all the stuff we were talking about is playing out, it really is pretty exciting. >> Yeah, I'm super excited, 'cause I remember last time we talked about a lot of the enterprise stuff, more complicated use cases and developer productivity, and we're really seeing an uptick in all the talks in those areas so I'm super excited to actually see what everyone else is doing. And yeah, more sophisticated, at-scale use cases, how to run efficiently, how to run in data centers, hybrid situations. >> The industry is growing up right in front of our eyes. >> Vicki: Yeah I know. (both laughing) >> It's exciting. Well I want to just get the news out there, it's in Amsterdam, it's in a couple of weeks, last week of March and going into April, the conference is happening. So in all the anxiety around the Corona virus, you guys are having the policy of no shaking hands, cough in your elbow, be sensitive, what are some of the things you guys are talking about? I'm sure you're fielding a lot of questions. >> Yeah, I think a lot of people are worried, the message is generally just don't panic and be reasonable in how you interact with people and know the context. So, stay a little bit, respect personal space, don't shake hands, which I know will be awkward for a lot of people, 'cause we're trained to do that, but, yeah. >> I was just at the RSA Conference and I tried to go with the fist bump, the elbow bump, or like this, I was still shaking hands, people stuck their hands out, and I'm like, okay, I'll shake their hand and wash it real quick. >> I always feel bad, I always carry hand sanitizer, but I think the conference is going to have hand sanitizing stations, so that's going to help a lot. >> Well I'm looking forward to hearing all the great stories, more importantly, really to me again, the big story we've talked about is the industry's growing up and you're starting to see visibility into the technology trend, where it's really applying it to operations, you seeing the business benefits start to unfold, as well as excitement still for the next journey. So I got to ask you, what are the most exciting talks you're seeing? What are some of the themes that we'll be expecting to hear? >> I continue to be pretty excited about the latest state of security as people start adopting more sensitive or critical applications, developer productivity is very near and dear to my heart 'cause why change the next generation of software if you're not going to be more productive? But I also am very interested in seeing the combination of all these considerations coming together and just people running large-scale clusters, trying to run them efficiently while handling business isolation needs, compliance, how to handle multi-tenant when they have different needs, and you have one ops team that's doing all of that. So I think all the combination is really what I want to see. >> And there's a lot of Day Zero activities happening which has always been popular, so you guys are recommending that people come in if they want to enjoy some of the Day Zero activities, come in a day early. >> Yeah, more and more I have been recommending people to just go to Day Zero, there's a lot of good stuff there, I'm personally super interested in all the Lightning talks, I think people always, especially first timers to the conferences, they miss the Lightning talks because they're like, "Oh, it's Day Zero, I start at one," and yeah. >> So I was going to ask you the next question, what's your advice for the new attendees? Because you guys do have a good in-migration of new first timers, as well as the mature people growing with the industry together, what's your advice for new attendees? >> Yeah, I would say definitely come in for Day Zero, go to all the Lightning talks. There's going to be a new 101 track this time, based on the feedback from last time, a lot of people said it was very overwhelming and so we put together a one day, 101 track, for people to have talks that help them navigate, both the conference itself, and also the community. CNCF projects can also be very intimidating 'cause there's a lot of them now. So I would definitely go and check out the 101 track. Also, the advice that I give to most people is actually take your time, because a lot of the talks are recorded and you can watch them later, so try not to jam pack your schedule all day because otherwise you're not going to last. >> Don't overdose, don't try to hit everything, pace yourself, pick a groove, and then identify talks you want to watch. >> Yeah, exactly. Also I think the value of these conferences is in the people, so the content obviously is great, but the strategy I take is I identify the topics that I am interested in and also the speakers that I want to get to know and I go to their talks and I talk to the speakers afterwards. Start building out your conference network. >> So you guys get a lot of feedback, I know you guys take it seriously and you look at it, what are some of the new things or tracks that are coming this year in Amsterdam that was either part of the learnings or just new interest levels? >> So the 101 track is probably the biggest change we've made, but another thing is because the community is growing up, we've had a lot of feedback about the distribution of beginners versus intermediate versus advanced topics. I think the feedback for last time was people wanted to see more intense, deep technical dives into hard topics for people who've been using Kubernetes for a few years and so we've adjusted that a little bit this time so you should see some more interesting-- >> John: Hardcore track. >> Yes, exactly. >> It's a hardcore track. So even on the board we're saying, it's too lightweight, you can pick your spectrum or where you want to jump in. >> I think it is like the conference is growing, so there's the audience demographics is also diversifying. >> Obviously theCUBE will be there, we'll be broadcasting live. So obviously the keynotes, you'll be streaming live as well, the keynotes, is that going to happen? >> Yeah, I think so. >> So I think you guys are, so I'm going to double check that. In terms of Amsterdam, I know obviously you have the US, North America one, this is Amsterdam, what do you guys plan there, any local flavor there? Is there any twists to the event being in Amsterdam? >> Well, usually-- >> John: More fun? >> Usually all the side social events are themed to whatever region we're hosted in, so yeah, I think we'll see definitely Amsterdam flavors there. I think we also try very hard to make sure to showcase the coolest speakers or technology or projects coming from that area, so definitely, I think a lot of the talks will be from-- >> Definitely the buzz, certainly on Twitter and the scuttlebutt and chatter is, more fun, people love Amsterdam, it's a fun city. >> I know. Yeah, just like generally people when they show up to the conference, they've traveled from elsewhere, so they're just like, the vibe is like. >> There's certainly a good vibe, looking forward to it. So in the 2020 year, a lot's going on with CNCF, there's a lot of different things happening, you're in the machinery, you're in the room talking about all the plans, what's the big picture this year inside the community in terms of figuring out the tracks, the events, I mean obviously there's growth there, how are you guys handling that? What's the conversation like? >> Yeah, I think definitely there's a shift happening, actually the tracks for KubeCon has been pretty stable since the inception of the conference, and this is I think the first year where we've started talking about maybe adjusting the tracks or splitting them because of how use cases have started shifting, for example, application development has always been a really large track, and it's intentionally vague, there's a lot of things that people are building on Kubernetes so we didn't want to be too prescriptive. But because there is an explosion of use cases, we're thinking of potentially splitting that, I'll leave that up to the co-chairs for next conference, but that sort of conversation is happening. >> What are some of the use cases that are exploding, obviously there's a diverse, broad set of new use cases, is there are pattern in what you're seeing? >> Yeah, for example, for HPC, high performance computing, that's always been a topic that we see from time to time, but really for the last couple of conferences, that's been very consistent in quite a few of them, and that ties into how people are using GPUs and even more exotic networking options. We're seeing some of that this time as well, so that's it's own category. I think another thing is application development, sort of, right now, encompasses both the application side, which is your HPC use case, or development, which is developer productivity or developer experience, they're very different and so right now they're lumped together. >> I have a confession for you because one of the reasons why I love KubeCon so much, because it's really the perfect blend of geeking out and nerding out on the tech, so kind of the open-source software. When you say HPC, it's like up and down the stack, a lot of geekiness going on where you can you dig in. Then you've got the entrepreneurial vibe, so you've got open-source devs who are standing up, startups, and I've been there and they are there, and there's a lot more entrepreneurs. And then you've got the big companies who have the big wallets, and they're either buying companies. And so you have that confluence of the down and dirty, getting with the tech, open-source, startups, and big companies, so it just makes for a real fun event. So I have to ask you as you look at trying to balance all the stakeholders, what's it like? You guys see that same kind of dynamic because everyone's playing well right now in the sandbox so to speak. >> Yeah, I think it's been okay trying to balance it just because everyone is still, I think there's still more in common that people are trying to solve than they are different. And so there are a lot of topics that yes, people are solving this problem for their specific use case but actually, there's a lot of things in common for people in small companies as well as large enterprises as well. I think the interesting thing is a lot of cloud providers, they give a lot of talks as well, and you'd think, that might be too vendor specific, but actually what we're seeing is that they have a lot of experience operating many, many clusters and large infrastructure and their experience in scaling that out is helpful to companies like Lyft or other startups that are just trying to scale their deployments. >> Yeah, what's interesting, I looked at Amazon, Azure, and say, Google for instance, each one of those beg tech companies, has a commercial interest and they do have large power, but all of the people that were running these clouds, they've been at the open-source community, they know the contract that they have with the culture and plus it's so early. So I think there's a nice, I mean I see Adrian there, I see all the Google folks there, all awesome people, they're not like the greedy big bad guys, and I think that's what people don't understand about that part of it, although their validation in the business side can really help pull through a lot of these great projects. >> Yeah, for sure, I see them contributing a lot to the community as well, and they definitely are very open to initiating collaboration and I see that a lot in KubeCon, in the vendor booth area, people are talking about like, "Oh, let's start a new project," or like, "That could be open-sourced," that's the type of conversation that's happening in the sponsorship area and not like, "Oh, do you want to buy our stuff?" So, yeah. >> Yeah, I definitely think all three of those clouds I mentioned, all have awesome people over there when it comes to this community, and again, everyone's playing well, but I think that the unification around Kubernetes and what's going with Cloud Native is so powerful because I think everyone agrees that there's a bigger win beyond the short term, there's a bigger defacto standard thing going on here around hybrid and multicloud. And all the conversations we have on theCUBE these days is about hardcore hybrid and then the promise of multicloud, so I got to ask you, is there any multicloud in here, or is that too off the radar on the hype side for you guys? >> I don't think it's too off, yeah there are definitely talks about hybrid and multicloud. And I've come from companies that have done that with Kubernetes and so I don't think it's that far fetched. >> So right now it's happening, there's good conversations happening there? >> I think obviously it depends on the use cause because it does come with its own complexity, but I think the demand on infrastructure teams just keeps growing and so we get to a place where we need to be multicloud because availability reasons or because of regional issues, whatever. So yeah, it's no that far fetched. >> You're hitting the sweet spot there, because you're talking about the scale that's going on, and the operations and everyone's always worried about, change is going to make this happen, the fact of the matter is, one you have large scale and growth, skills gap and skills shortages going on, so the only way to solve that problem, and by the way, and a huge data tsunami, you got cybersecurity, the only way to solve that is automation, I mean software, that's the whole big picture. >> Yeah I think everyone's seeing the benefit of sharing the problems we're solving on the infrastructure layer because that's not our business, we're not selling infrastructure, we just want to get that in a good place, so we can actually do our business. So I think that's what's also fueling all the community and open source efforts. >> Vicki, final question, what's going to be the theme for you guys as you give your talks, and you're in the hallways, talking to folks, what's the posture this year from the group, what do you hope people walk away with from KubeCon and CloudNativeCon this year? >> Oh, that's a good question. Well personally I think a lot of what's on my mind right now, coming into this conference is, a lot of talks from San Diego were about, okay now that we're actually putting this into production, a lot of teams are realizing how much complexity there is, and how we can abstract the complexity away from the rest of engineering team outside of infrastructure and since then I think people have made a lot of contributions and have thought a lot more about that topic, so that's what's on my mind is like, okay that's what we were talking about a few months ago, let's see where we're at now. >> Let's see the proof. >> Yeah. >> Let's see the use cases, let's see the results, it's a prudent world when you start talking about operations. >> Yeah. >> Rubber's hitting the road. Okay, Vicki's here inside theCUBE, giving us a break down of the upcoming KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, she's the co-chair, puts it all together, the great team over there, and also a great community. Again, as it continues to grow, and there's a lot more to go, Cloud Native and Kubernetes is really the center of what I see is a defacto standardization around a whole new cloud operating model that's going to create a lot of benefits and a lot of great stuff for the community. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here in Palo Alto, California at the CUBE studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. For a special CUBE conversation, a preview of the upcoming KubeCon, Cloud Native Con in San Diego. Where theCUBE will be there, as well as a bunch of other folks. The New Stack will be there, a lot of other media producers, as well as the big conference. KubeCon, in it's fourth or fifth year, depending on which year you count. Its a super exciting conference, this is where the Kubernetes and the Cloud Native communities come together to set the agenda to talk about all the great things that are going on in the industry and how it's changing tech for good. We're here with Vicki Cheung, who is the Co-Chair and also Software Engineer Manager at Lyft. Vicki great to see you, thanks for coming in. >> Thanks for having me. >> I'm so proud of KubeCon and the community because when we were there, in the early days, when it was kind of forming and created. There was a big vision that it would play a critical role. A lot of people haven't really seen how big it's become. And it's really become so important that the big companies are now moving towards Open Source, the CNC has been very successful. Both on getting vendors in and end user projects. You're setting the agenda. You're setting the table for this year's KubeCon. >> Yeah. >> Tell us what's going on. >> Yeah, I think we're seeing the maturity of the community coming together. It's sort of continuing on this trend where, as you said, the adoption is growing exponentially. I think, that two years ago if you surveyed the room and asked people, "who is using Kubernetes and Docker in production, you'd maybe get, like, a hand. I think you're seeing this thing where, this trend, where this year, I think, if you surveyed the room, it would be like maybe half the room were raising their hands. >> And the acceleration is interesting. You're seeing in, I mean, huge acceleration of the adoption of Kubernetes and other projects. And I think what's interesting to me, and I think commentary that we've been reporting on is that Kubernetes can be that unifying point. And you're seeing this, de facto standard emerging and a lot of people talking about that de facto. And that has accelerated the Production Use Cases. So, the End User Projects are increasing. Is that going to be a focus or main focus of this year's KubeCon? >> Oh yeah, definitely. I think we're seeing, maybe even last year, we've had a lot of end user talks from, you know, early adopters start ups, like tech giants. But this year we're seeing a lot more enterprise use cases. And that's driving a lot of content as well. So, I think when it comes enterprise use cases, we're seeing a lot of talks around security and governance. We're seeing a lot of developer productivity talks, and we're also seeing a lot more focus on how to scale operations. >> So, take me through the focus this year. Let's get this out on the table, because this is a big event. What can people expect this year, when you guys sat in the room, with the teams, and said, "Okay, here's going to be the Con and agenda, "we have a form of that's not broken, let's not fix, what's not broken, so the format's good." What was the focus, what was this year's focus. What's going to be the focus of this year's KubeCon? >> Yeah, I think Bryan and I, when we sit together, we have all the tracks that we've been using, for the last couple of years. And generally we, sort of stick to them, because they're pretty good. But the way we, I think the interesting thing is, we see over the years how the distribution across the tracks have changed. So, for example, I think this year, operations is a super big track, and it's very competitive to get into. And that's because we're seeing a lot more adoption at scale, and different Use cases, different types of companies and production. So, I think that track have been a main focus. And also, I think customizing Kubernetes is another one, as people's use cases got more sophisticated. And in the serve use case track, I think we see a lot more enterprise, like even banks adopting Kubernetes. >> So, essentially the same game as before, but weighting them differently based on adoption? >> Exactly, I think it's a shift, like earlier it would be maybe more like earlier adopter and serve experimental use cases, and now it's like, people are actually going into production now. So, the shift has been into like, how do we get this running reliably, at scale. So, that's what we're seeing. >> In terms of the industry, if you look back, and again you guys went public at Lyft, and you guys are growing, and you guys have a great open source product with Envoy, I'm sure you guys are going to do the Day Zero thing again this year, last year was a big success. Is there any projects that you see coming out of the woodwork that are going to evolve up? And what can people expect in terms of project growth or emerging projects. Is there any indication, from your standpoint? What's going to come out of the community? >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of projects that are growing, like Helm continues to grow. I think one thing that I'm seeing, from this year's content is there's a lot of focus on, OPA. Like I said, the security is sort of a growing focus. And OPA is certainly one of the things I think people should expect at this year's conference. Another area that I'm personally very interested in, and I see, I'm happy to see it popping up more this year, is developer experience and developer productivity. As we're, even just personally witnessing at Lyft, adopting Cloud Native Architecture, microservices and Kubernetes, comes with a lot of benefits, but also a lot of new challenges into how people should develop in this ecosystem. So, there are projects like Telepresence and Tilt that are coming up more. And there's a few talks around that, in application and development as well. >> How about the developer's side? What's the general sentiment in the community these days? If you had to kind of, put a parameter out there, what's the general vibe in the community, from a developer's stand point around Cloud Native and Kubernetes? >> I think there's, I think it depends on who you ask. Generally, you know, people are very very excited to be sort of moving in this direction. And I think it allows people to be a lot more flexible in how they develop their applications. But I also think that there's a lot of open questions, that we still have to answer. And this is where, I guess some of these new projects come into help fill the gap. >> Well first of all, you guys have, always have a great conference, theCUBE will be there, as well media producer will be a lot on digital. So, folks not going to the event, they should go and see the face-to-face. I want to get the take on some of the submissions. You guys have an interesting dynamic and CNCF and KubeCon and Cloud Native Con, you have a ton of end user projects, A lot of end user focus, obviously it's an end user focused show. But you also have a lot of vendors, suppliers that are also in the community. So, you have an interesting balance going on. Talk about some of the numbers in terms of submissions, because I know, everyone's got submissions, not everyone gets accepted, like the operations you mentioned is a hot track. What's some of the numbers? Can you share any, kind of statistics around number of submissions versus acceptance? >> Yeah, I think typically CNCF will publish some of the numbers, in a blog post. So, I don't know all the numbers off the top of my head. But for example, in operations, I think the acceptance rate was maybe less than 10%. I think, it wasn't that competitive, maybe two years ago, but certainly as everyone moves to deploying Kubernetes on their own, that's sort of a hot topic. >> What's the relationship in the community, with the big vendors? Obviously you see, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, are big players in there, and they're investing heavily in Kubernetes. And VMware, as well, is also investing. Is that good, bad, is it just balancing? What's the communities view on the participation of the big guys? >> Yeah, I think it's actually been really great to the community and I personally would not have expected Microsoft, ADBS to be as active in the community as they are now, if you asked me five years ago. So, I think it's this interesting thing that Kubernetes and CNCF hasn't managed to do, is instead of having the tech giants having to suck out the energy and the technology into their private ecosystem. It's been the other way around. Where Microsoft and ADBS and Google have been contributing a lot of their integrations and other tooling and projects that they've built on top of the projects in CNCF. And just enriching the community. >> So, you're saying that they've been pushing more towards open source, not pulling out of it? >> Yeah. I think that's, obviously I'm super happy to see that. But I think that was not obvious at all from the beginning. >> Yeah, it's super exciting, you know we've been tracking the business model's evolution. And open source is more powerful than ever before now. And it's growing so fast and changing. Let's talk about the Enterprises now, because I think you're seeing adoption on the classic IT Enterprise moving in. We've interviewed many CSO's, CIO's and practitioners, they all have the same kind of reaction, "Oh my God, this is so good for our business, "Kubernetes what Containers are doing, "will allow us to manage the life cycle of our applications. "The same time bringing Cloud Native, "without a lot of disruption." What's your reaction to that, are you guys seeing that same dynamic? And if so, what is some of the use cases of Enterprises, within KubeCon? >> Yeah, I think one thing is, the earlier pitch is the, of course allows you to have that flexibility to move from your data center to Hybrid Cloud, and maybe to different cloud vendors. So, I think that's super appealing. But another thing that we're seeing this year is, as people adopted at scale they're also seeing a lot of cost savings from adopting Kubernetes, just because it allows them to be a lot more flexible in how they deploy things. I think that, in general as you move to serve a community standard, an Open Source Platform, it does help your developers a lot, because now they don't need to build their own in-house thing, which is, for example, what Lyft had before Kubernetes. So, I think it's generally a productivity win. >> So, on Envoy real quick, while I got you here. Lyft has been involved in donating that project and driving it last year, one of the most notable news, at least from out observation was, that the Envoy did that event the day before. And it was really popular. >> Yeah >> Is it going to happen again? What's some of the views on that? >> Yeah, so EnvoyCon is happening again this year, right before Kubernetes. I think it's even more popular than last year. So, there's going to be a lot of talks around, running Envoy at scale, and also on top of Kubernetes. As people sort of integrate the two technologies more. >> Okay, so I got to ask you the personal observations, you can take your Co-Chair hat off and put your KubeCon community hat on. What dark horses are out there, that you think may surprise people this year? What do you think might happen? Because there is always something that goes on, that's just a surprise, a dark horse, if you will, comes out of the woodwork, what do you think might happen? >> Well, I think there's of course going to be a few new Open Source projects that are launched there. And I also think there will be a lot of, maybe more than usual, interesting people that people can meet at the conference. >> I heard there's a rumor that the original gangsters, or the OG's or the original members, the seven original members are going to be there. >> Yeah, I don't-- >> Confirm or deny? >> I don't know if I can confirm or deny, but-- >> Okay, I think that's a yes, possibly. We'll be tracking that, okay, final question for you. What do you think will be the most important story for people to pay attention to this year? What do you think is going to be, evolving out on the stage? Out on the tracks, out on digital? What do you expect to see this year? What is some of the top stories and top notable points that you think is going to happen this year? >> Yeah, I think one thing that maybe, for me, and for a lot of people is this message that Kubernetes is ready. I think it's been sort of building up in this hype for the last few years. And we've seen adoption, but I think this is truly the year that I see a lot of Enterprise end user cases and I can really say that Kubernetes is ready. >> So the new criteria is proof points? Scale, operationally seeing some operations, real proof points, customer adoption, enterprise and hyperscalers? >> Yeah. >> All right, Vicki thanks for coming in and sharing this preview on KubeCon, Cloud Native Con. It's theCUBE covering the KubeCon, Cloud Native Con preview with Vicki Co-Chair, who set the agenda with her fellow Co-Chair Bryan Liles, as well. Great to have her on and share upcoming conversation around KubeCon. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE media. >> Welcome back to theCube's coverage of Grace Hopper Conference here in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We're joined by Vicki Mealer-Burke, she is the Vice-President and Chief Diversity Officer at Qualcomm. Thanks so much for joining us, Vicki. >> Thank you, Rebecca, it's great to be here. >> So, before we the camera's were rolling, you were describing how you've been at Qualcomm for 20 years, but you've been in this job for one year. And you're the first person to ever hold the position. >> That's right. >> So, tell our viewers how it came about. >> Yeah, I have been at Qualcomm almost 21 years now, and mostly in product development, product management, and then, my last role was as a general manager of one of our wholly-owned subsidiaries and I really thought that my run at Qualcomm was done, because we're consolidating a lot of our businesses. I started working on some women's programs while I was shutting down our last business, and it just so happened, it was the same time the company decided to create a chief diversity officer. My initial reaction was, "That's so great, we're going to "get one of those people, and we really need them." I wanted to be a champion for that person, and then I started getting myself interested and thinking that I could really be a change agent and a leader for the company. And kind of leave a legacy back to the company, a company that's actually been really, really good to me. >> So, when you were thinking about this job, you described it as a business problem that needed to be solved. And as someone who'd been at Qualcomm for two decades, how did you define the business problem? >> The way that my brain works is, I'm a problem solver and that's why I got into product management. And so, I really thought that if the company saw this as compliance or some sort of regulatory issue, I would really have no real interest, but I really knew that we could solve the probably by likely re-engineering some of the processes that had been in place. And, Qualcomm has had a tremendous growth over the years, and we've ramped from, I was employee 5,000 to now well over 30,000, so many of our processes really just had to be re-engineered. And I knew that I could speak that language to our leaders, we understand re-engineering problems. So, I really tried to get down to root cause and focus on a couple of the areas that would really make a big difference, and discuss the business value of why we were doing this. >> So, what are the areas that you are focusing on? Just give our viewers of a sense of the the top two or three areas where you think you can have the most impact? >> There's really two levers that I'm focused on. One is talent acquisition, so continuing to bring the best and brightest minds, the most innovative people in the world now to help us move our wireless technology into the 5G world. The possibilities are endless so we need all kinds of bright minds looking at this from all different kinds of directions. That's the diversity piece of it. The second big lever is, once we get them in, we have to keep 'em. I mean, this show shows how talented women engineers are really at premium, and so the more we're hiring, the more we're losing people on the other side. People call that the leaky pipeline or the leaky bucket. So, I'm working on retention programs to make sure that once we get our diverse talent in the door that we can keep them by really supporting, promoting, progressing them, making sure that they have wide variety of opportunities and that they see a bright future for themselves at Qualcomm. >> So, are you starting new programs? Is this about mentorship, is this about making sure there is flexible work? I mean, what are some of the nitty-gritty things that Qualcomm is doing? >> Yeah, we have started a series of sessions with our senior-most leaders, what we call, like, our directors and above. We have terrific support at the C-level at Qualcomm, terrific support. But at a 30,000 person company, you really need to get into that next couple-down layers. And so, we're doing training about, basically, how to run an inclusive team, how to empower. One of the big things that we're training on is the process of, how do you pick people for that next big project? And, like many managers, they go back to the people that have been successful year after year. What we're trying to do is disrupt that and either create, like, a apprenticeship, product leader positions where someone can tag along and lead and understand how those projects were run so well. But that's what we need to do is really try to expand the project opportunities, that's when people get a lot of visibility, a lot of experience, and that's where their own talents will just then accelerate them through our levels. >> You were talking about the need to make sure that a couple rungs down from the senior brass, really understand that there is a real business case for diverse teams that are collaborative. How receptive are these managers in your experience, and what do you say that really tips them over? >> So, Qualcomm is full of extremely bright people. There's an awareness and the benefit of the doubt that we're giving all of our employees is, "Let's give you the "facts, let's make you aware, let's let you drive the "solution, so that we're all working together." We don't have any kind of quotas, we just want to make managers, give them all the data and have them make good decisions, and empower them to be part of the solution. That empowerment need is where we're building trust with those managers. We're not saying, "Oh, you've been doing it wrong for "a million years." We're saying, "Here's what you can do to get better. "Here's what you can do to have a more engaged team. "Here's what you can do to have a more empowered team." That leads to productivity, productivity goes straight to the bottom line, and it makes sense. So, we're trying to do it more in a partnership, giving them the respect that they've earned with the positions that they're in, and empowering them to be the change. >> So, earlier in your career, you worked on some really exciting projects in terms of wearables, in terms of smart-cities, in terms of home-base technology. Do you miss the tech, I mean, do you see yourself going back and working in that? >> Yeah, it's a great question. When you're in the business, there are daily, weekly, incremental successes. We fixed that bug, we got that contract, this is really more, I call it kind of like forming jello, it's hard to get those feelings everyday like you're making progress on something. I do miss the technology, this is the biggest problem I think I've ever been tasked to solve, so that is extremely inspiring, and luckily, I get to work side-by-side with a lot of our best technology leaders. But, I do miss the technology, for sure. >> And working in the business? >> Sure. >> So, you talked about the, sort of, difficulty with measuring incremental progress, and then really we're at a point in time where the Google manifesto and Travis Kalanick's antics are front-page news. Is this discouraging, or is does it make you more excited by the cause and what you're doing? >> There are aspects to it that are discouraging, but I am really a glass half-full type of person, I think shining the light, really shining this big, bright light on the issue makes 99% of the people in our business really say, "Wow, I can't believe that's really going on." So, I actually think it's good, it's allowing us to have these conversations which are uncomfortable and a lot of leaders want to have the conversations but they don't know what to say. So, all of these things coming out in the press just give us that entry to be able to say, "Let's talk about it." And we've been doing that at Qualcomm, we do it with our employees, I want people to feel free to ask questions and not think that they should know it all. This is actually a fairly new area, so we've got to allow all of our leaders to have a level of comfort, but also know they don't have to be perfect in every single thing they say, just be inquisitive and really start the discussions. >> When you are pitching Qualcomm as a potential employer to young women, what is your value proposition? We heard Fei-Fei Li during the keynote talk about there is a real crisis if women are not actively involved in creating the next generation of artificial intelligence, and we're half of the end users, that there is going to be this real disconnect between the technology and how it's used. >> And as a product leader, I have always been fascinated by these public stories of product failures that no one was trying to make them fail but it was very clear that they didn't have a diverse team, because they just had some really big misses. So, one of the things we talk about at Qualcomm, you know, we're a wireless technology company, we started with 3G and now 4GLTE, that whole wireless technology, that backbone of it, is all Qualcomm tech, and it allows us to go into 5G. 5G is where the thing gets exponentially more interesting, more exciting, a much lighter set of problems to solve can be solved through 5G. So, if we don't have a diverse set of people thinking about all the different use-cases, variables, that we can use 5G technology, we'll miss something big. And I know that our CEO believes that, we've talked about it, we are inventors, we are innovators, and we have to have a wider variety of people that are being inventors of the future. >> So, I just want to wrap up here but finally ask you about this conference, this is not your first Grace Hopper, and it's a very young conference and you're really looked at as a veteran, I mean, me, too. We're the old bags about this place. (laughing) Can you just describe a little bit, I know you said that you were introducing one of the keynote speakers and you got to meet a personal hero of yours, just what it's like to be here? >> It's really amazing, last year was my first year. I was not the Chief Diversity Officer a year ago, yet, and I came here and people like, Telle Whitney, who you read about, I've gotten to meet here, I can hug her. >> Rebecca: You'll never was your hand again. >> I know, it's amazing. The women that have been leading this for years and years and years, and now what this has turned out to be, I was talking to one of my colleagues, and I go to a lot of technical conferences and business conferences like CES, CES is almost where we should be here meeting in the middle, a lot more men here, in years to come, and a lot more women at CES. And I think that's when we'll know that we're actually making progress. >> Well, Vicki, thank you so much for joining us. >> Yes, thank you, thanks for having me. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, we'll have more from theCube's coverage of the Grace Hopper just after this. (upbeat music)

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. I'm Stewman and my cohost is Justin Warren. And coming back to our program, one of our cube alumni and be coach hair of this coupon cloud native con prion Lyles who is also a senior staff engineer at VMware. Brian, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me on. And do you want to have a shout out of course to a Vicky Chung who is your coach hair. She has been doing a lot of work. She came to our studio ahead of it to do a preview and unfortunately she's supposed to be sitting here but a little under the weather. And we know there was nothing worse than, you know, doing travel and you know, fighting an illness. But she's a little sick today, but um, uh, she knows that we'll, we'll, we'll still handle it. Alright, so Brian, 12,000 people here in attendance. >>Uh, more keynotes than most of us can keep a track of. So, first of all, um, congratulations. Uh, things seem to be going well other than maybe, uh, choosing the one day of the year that it rained in, uh, you know, San Diego, uh, which we we can't necessarily plan for. Um, I'd love you to bring us a little bit insight as to some of the, the, the goals and the themes that, uh, you know, you and Vicki and the, the, the, the, the community we're, we're looking at for, for this coupon. So you're right, let's help thousand people and so many sponsors and so many ideas and so many projects, it's really hard to have a singular theme. But a few months ago we came up with was, well, if, if Kubernetes in this cloud software make us better or basically advances, then we can do more advanced things. >>And then our end users can be more advanced. And it was like a three pong thing. And if you look, go back and look at our keynotes, he would say, Hey, we're looking at our software. Hey, we're looking at an amazing things that we did, especially cat by that five G keynote yesterday. And the notice that we had, it was me talking about how we could look forward and then, and then notice we had in talking about security and then we had Walmart and target talking about how they're using it and, and that was all on purpose. It's trying to tell a story that people can go back and look at. Yeah, I liked the, the message that you were, you were trying to put out there around how we need to make Kubernetes a little bit easier, but how we need to change the way that we talk about it as well. >>So maybe you could, uh, fill us in a little bit more. Let's say, unfortunately, Kubernetes is not going to get an easier, um, that's like saying we wish Linux was easier to use. Um, Linux has a huge ABI and API interface. It's not going to get easier. So what we need to do is start doing what we did with Linux and Linux is the Colonel. Um, this should be some Wars happened over the years and you notice some distributions are easier to use. Another. So if you use the current fedora or you the current Ubuntu or even like mint, it's getting really easy to use. And I'm not suggesting that we need Kubernetes distributions. That's actually the furthest thing, but we do need to work on building our ecosystem on top of Kubernetes because I mentioned like CIS CD, um, observability security audit management and who knows what else we need to start thinking about those things as pretty much first-class items. >>Just as important as Kubernetes. Kubernetes is the Colonel. Yeah. Um, in the keynotes, there's, as you said, there's such a broad landscape here. Uh, uh, I've heard some horror stories that people like, Oh, Hey, where do I start? And they're like, Oh, here's the CNCF landscape. And they're like, um, I can't start there. There's too much there. Uh, you, you picked out and highlighted, um, some of the lesser known pieces. Uh, th there's some areas that are a little bit mature. What, what are some of the more exciting things that you've seen going on right now, your system and this ecosystem? >> Um, I'm not even gonna. I highlighted open policy agent as a, as an interesting product. I don't know if it's the right answer, actually. I kind of wish there was a competitor just so I could determine if it was the right answer. >>But things like OPA and then like open telemetry, um, two projects coming together and having even bigger goals. Uh, let's make a severability easy. What I would also like to see is a little bit more, more maturity and the workflow space. So, you know, the CII and CD space. And I know with Argo and flux merging to Argo flux, uh, that's very interesting. And just a little bit of a tidbit is that I, I also co-chair the CNCF SIG application delivery, uh, special interest group, but, uh, we're thinking about that, that space right there. So I would love to see more in the workflow space, but then also I would like to see more security tools and not just old school check, check, check, but, um, think about what Aqua security is doing. And I'm, I don't know if they're now Snick or S, I don't know how to say it, but, um, there's, there's companies out there rethinking security. >>Let's do that. Yeah. I spoke to Snick a couple of days ago and it's, I'm pretty sure it's sneak. Apparently it stands for, so now you know, which that was news to me that, so now I know interesting. But they have a lot of good projects coming up. Yeah. You mentioned that the ecosystem and that you like that there's competitors for particular projects to kind of explore which way is the right way of doing things. We have a lot of exhibitors here and we have a lot of competitors out there trying to come into this ecosystem. It seems to actually be growing even bigger. Are we going to see a period of consolidation where some of these competing options, we decided that actually no, we don't want to use that. We want to go over here. I mean according to crossing the chasm, yes, but we need to figure out where we are on the maturity chart for, for the whole ecosystem. >>So I think in a healthy, healthy ecosystem, people don't succeed and products go away, but then what we see is in maybe six months or a year or two later, those same founders are out there creating new products. So not everyone's going to win on their first shot. So I think that's fine because, you know, we've all had failures in the past, but we're still better for those failures. Yeah, I've heard it described as a kind of Cambridge and explosion at the moment. So hopefully we don't get an asteroid that comes in and, uh, and hopefully it is out cause yeah. Um, one of the things really, really noticed is, uh, if you went back a year or even two years ago, we were talking about very much the infrastructure, the building blocks of what we had. Uh, I really noticed front and center, especially in the keynote here, talking a lot about the workload. >>You're talking about the application. We're talking about, uh, you know, much more up the stack and uh, from kind of that application, uh, uh, piece down, even, uh, some friends of mine that were new to this ecosystem was like, I don't understand what language they're talking. I'm like, well, they're talking to the app devs. That's why, you know, they're not speaking to you. Is that, was that intentional? >> Well, I mean for me it is because I like to speak to the app devs and I realized that infrastructure comes and goes. I've been doing this for decades now and I've seen the rise of Cisco as, as a networking platform and I've seen their ups and downs. I've worked in security. But what I know is fundamentals are, are just that. And I would like to speak to the developers now because we need to get back to the developers because they create the value. >>I mean the only people who win at selling via our selling Kubernetes are vendors of Kubernetes. So, you know, I work for one and then there's the clouds and then there's other companies as well. So the thing that stays constant are people are building applications and ultimately if Kubernetes and the cloud native landscape can't take care of those application developers remember happened, remember, um, OpenStack, and not in like a negative way, but remember OpenStack, it got to be so hard that people couldn't even focus on what gave value. >> Unlike obvious fact leaves on it. It's still being used a lot in, in service providers and so on. So technology never really goes away completely. It just may fade off and live in a corner and then we move on to whatever's the next newest and greatest thing and then end up reinventing ourselves and having to do all of the same problems again. >>It feels a little bit like that with sometimes the Kubernetes way where haven't we already sold this? Linux is still here, Linux is still, and Linux is still growing. I mean Linux is over Virgin five right now and Linux is adapting and bringing in new things in a Colonel and moving things out to the user land. Kubernetes needs to figure out how to do that as well. Yeah, no Brian, I think it's a great point. You know, I'm an infrastructure guy and we know the only reason infrastructure exists is to serve up that application. What Matt managed to the business, my application, my data. Um, you and your team have some open source projects that you're involved in. Maybe give us a little bit about right? So oxen is a, so let me tell you the quick story. Joe Beda and I talked about how do we approach developers where they are. >>And one thing came up really early in that conversation was, well, why don't we just tell developers where things are broken? So come to find out using Kubernetes object model and a little bit of computer science, like just a tiny little bit. You can actually build this graph where everything is connected and then all you need to do then is determine if for any type of object, is it working or is it not working? So now look at this. Now I can actually show you what's broken and what's not broken. And what makes octane a little bit different is that we also wrapped it with a dashboard that shows everything inside of a Kubernetes cluster. And then we made it extensible. And just, just a crazy thing. I made a plugin API one weekend because I'm like, Oh, that would be kind of cool. And just at this conference alone, nine to 10 people to walk up to me and said, Oh, um, we use oxygen and we use your plugin system. >>And now we've done things that I can't imagine, and I think I might've said this, I know I've said it somewhere recently, but the hallmark of a good platform is when people start creating things you could never imagine on it. And that's what Linux did. That's what Kubernetes is doing. And octane is doing it in the small right now. So kudos to me and me really and my team that's really exciting. So fry, Oakton, Coobernetti's and Tansu both are seven sided. Uh, was, was that, that, that uh, uh, moving to, uh, to, to eight, uh, so no marketing. Okay. And I don't profess to understand what marketing is. Someone just named it. And I said, you know what, I'm a developer. I don't really mind w as long as you can call it something, that's fine. I do like the idea that we should evolve the number of platonic solids. >>There's another answer too. So if you think about what seven is, it, um, people were thinking ahead and said, well, someone could actually take that and use it as another connotation. So I was like, all right, we'll just get out of that. That's why it's called octane, but still nautical theme. Okay, great. Brian. So much going on. You know, even outside of this facility, there's things going on. Uh, any hidden gems that just the, you know, our audience that's watching or people that we'll look back at this event and say, Hey, you know, here's some cool little things there. I mean, they hit the Twitters, I'm sure they'll see the therapy dogs and whatnot, but you know, for the people geeking out, some of those hidden gems that you'd want to share. Um, some of the hidden gems or I'll, I'll throw up to, um, watch what these end-user companies are doing and watch what, like the advanced companies like Walmart and target and capital one are doing. >>I just think there's a lot of lessons to be learned and think about this. They have a crazy amount of money. They're actually investing time in this. It might be a good idea. And other hidden gyms are, are companies that are embracing the, the extension model of Kubernetes through custom resource definitions and building things. So the other day I had the tests on, on the stage, and they're not the only example of this, but running my sequel and Coobernetti's and it pretty much works all well, let's see what we can run with this. So I think that there's going to be a lot more companies that are going to invest in this space and, and, and actually deliver on these types of products. And, and I think that's a very interesting space. Yeah. We, we spoke to Bloomberg just before and uh, we talked to the tests, we spoke to Subaru from the test yesterday. >>Uh, seeing how people are using Kubernetes to build these systems, which can then be built upon themselves. Right. I think that's, that's probably for me, one of the more interesting things is that we end up with a platform and then we build more platforms on top of it. But we, we're creating these higher levels of abstraction, which actually gets us closer to just being able to do the work that we want to do as developers. I don't need to think about how all of the internals work, which again to your keynote today is like, I don't want to write machine code and I just want to solve this sort of business problem. If we can embed that into the, into this ecosystem, then it just makes everyone's lives much, much easier. So you basically, that is my secret. I'm really, I know people hate it for attractions and they say they will, but no one hates an abstraction. >>You don't actually turn the crank in your motor to make the car run. You press the accelerator and it goes. Yeah. Um, so we need to figure out the correct attractions and we do that through iteration and failure, but I'm liking that people are pushing the boundaries and uh, like Joe beta and Kelsey Hightower said is that Kubernetes is a platform of platforms. It is basically an API for writing API APIs. Let's take advantage of that and write API APIs. All right. Well, Brian, thank you. Thank Vicky. Uh, please, uh, you know, share, congratulations to the team for everything done here. And while you might be stepping down as, or we do hope you'll come and join us back on the cube at a future event. No, I enjoyed talking to you all, so thank you. Alright, thanks so much Brian for Justin Warren we'll be back with more of our water wall coverage. CubeCon cloud native con here in San Diego. Thanks for watching the queue.