>> Same thing, Bill, help me in and I'll give you a five count. Guys, this has to be in the vault until think, like everything else. Same, same protocol. Okay. Okay, great. Got you Tiller. Five, four. Hi, Everybody. This is Dave Vellante. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of IBM think 2020, the digital event experience. And I'm very excited to bring in Itumeleng Monale. She is a woman in AI, leader 2020 honoree, was being announced, I think 2020. Itumeleng, first of all, congratulations. Thanks for coming up, we wish you were in Silicon Valley, in Moscone to handle the award, personally. But congratulations are in order. Terrific honor. >> Thank you very much Dave >> So I'm interested in, as people know, who follow theCUBE, very passionate about promoting diversity. And in particular, really, women in tech. It's been something that we've been covering for a decade. But I'm interested in how you got started in your data journey, how you got started in tech. Why? >> I think I just fell into it, To be honest, it found me. I began my career 21 odd years ago, as a management consultant really, and I specialized in strategy. So I really have to say that data found me, and information found me. And I left consulting after about six years, and started working in a bank also in a strategy role, but very quickly realized at the time, that digitization was going to be the next wave that allowed us to be competitive. And at the time, there weren't a lot of people in the digital banking space, and the bulk of our transactions and how we did things, was still over the counter and face to face. So I guess, I saw the opportunity, and we started building a self service and digital banking capability, which I ran for about six years. And after that, once you develop digital capabilities, whether it's an app or an interface, you quickly realize that actually it's not the main show. And data is behind everything that you presenting at the front end. So, I then saw a gap again, in the organization in the form of data management. We were spending a lot of money trying to leverage data, but the data was a bad policy, we didn't have good governance, we didn't have good processes, only Lifecycle Management behind it. And hence then there was another opportunity to go and establish a proper data management practice. So, here I find myself. >> So I have to ask you so, I mean, we love to honor women. However, we have the sort of, when I talk to women leaders, I get kind of two camps and not to generalize, but I'll generalize. One is, hey, I had to fight through all the stereotypes. I had to do more than my male colleagues. I broke through the glass ceiling, and I did it and I'm very proud of it. The other end of the spectrum is, I'm a successful leader and I just happened to be a woman. What are your thoughts on that? Where do you fall on that? >> I think all of it is true, to be quite honest. Dave. You know, yes, as females at a certain point in my career, I found that you did have to fight for a voice, you did have to speak up, but I certainly wouldn't have gotten where I am without, not without a sponsor and men, allowing us the space to actually give those opinions and have a voice. So I'm grateful to kind of the people that came before us, and they all happen to be men, but they saw the talent, that we have a network competent, and therefore, had we not been competent, I don't think we'd be here either. So it's a mix of both. And it's not just around being a female, it's about fighting for a cause, right? So whatever it is that you're championing as a leader, if you really believe in that purpose, by nature you're probably going to swim upstream a little bit and fight for it until it's an established kind of status quo. >> What advice would you give to organizations, that I mean the stats are less than 20% of the technology, of employment, or women? I think it's you know, 15 to 17%. What advice would you give to organizations that want to tap this rich talent pool and bring in more diversity into their organizations, but they tend to look in their own, you know, comfortable circles. What would you suggest? >> Well, I think you just really have to take the plunge, you have to challenge yourself, beyond what you perceive as normal. We all have to challenge ourselves in terms of unconscious biases. And I think organizations that are most successful, have acknowledged to themselves that the brain's trust that they have might not be enough. And bringing in new energy, is always going to make you more competitive than others. So really look to the next generation, look for young people look to different genders, look to different nationalities, to really make the quality of whatever it is that you're providing as a service or a product that much more relevant and better to your target audience. The reality is, you know, 51% of the globe are female. So if you don't take a female voice, in terms of developing whatever it is for your client base out there, you're missing half the mark. >> Words to live by Itumeleng, you know, it's one of the great pleasures of being a CUBE host, is we get to meet really interesting people like you. I hope that someday we get to meet face to face. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story. >> Thank you so much, Dave. Much appreciate >> And thank you for watching everybody. This is our continuous coverage of IBM think 2020, the digital event experience. Dave Vellante. You're watching theCUBE.

>>live from Washington D. C. It's the Cube covering Bumi World 19 to Bide Movie. >>Hey, welcome back to the Cubes Coverage of Bumi World 19 from Washington D. C. I'm Lisa Martin with John Ferrier and John and I have a Cube alumni sitting with us. We have the chief product officer off. Del blew me. Steve would Steve, Welcome back. >>Thank you. It's great to be back. I could see again. John. Great must meet you >>back. Wise Enjoyed your keynote this morning, Man. There were so many nuggets and there I couldn't type faster. But one of my favorite things that you said is that no one is asking for less data. Slower? >>Yes, OK did I like kind of like saying because it frames things very clearly. It's just because it's clearly a prole. Every relates to him in the audience, but it was kind of amusing, so they've really got it immediately as I get that, that's a fair statement, so >>so like, and then you kind of took us the audience back. Thio 11 months ago at Bumi World 18. Some of the things that you guys said this is what we're going to be really focused on redefining the eye and I pass to be intelligent. Give her audience who wasn't able to see your keynote A little bit of that historical from 11 months ago. So what you guys are delivering today what the Bumi platform looks like today? >>Yeah, sure. So I mean, a lot of showed last Army, we kind of owe. Then we feel like we is like craters. The industry have to kind of try lead it. Where? Where is it going next? That's our big kind of duty, I guess. And so it's been taken over when we had the founder of booming attend, which was nice, but yes, so the big thing we should Last year was kind of the next generation, which is really a unified look and feel super easy to build applications that spend all of the portfolio and art in our that we offer our customers. We wanted to make it very collaborative, so users of business or business analysts or quick technical people can work together and use. Our platform is a collaboration space of the right controls in place. Eso stuff like that was really good to show that our new solutions. Overview. We've been definitely encouraging partners to put Maur intellectual property into our platform to excel, help accelerate their customers. Helping our customers just get people on board as quickly as possible. In fact, actually owned boarding employees on boarding was the solution we showed last year. >>That was fantastic. I couldn't believe how complex that was at Bumi. And when you guys said, We've got to change this huge improvements. >>Yeah, well, it was sort of a discovery that came up from one of our cells. Engineers got Andy Tiller did a fantastic job. He didn't enjoy his, um, his own boarding experience abuse me and then sort of building a solution. And we're like, we like we can actually do this way better on the platform. But what was amazing was that even for a company the size of Bumi, which is about 1000 people, we have, like, nearly 100 integration points and systems had to be coordinated to on board a single employee 100. Yeah, it's a lot, you know. So it became a really connectivity problem, actually, on >>boarding >>bits relatively easy. It's just, like connected all these systems. That's the hard bit. So yeah, we're excited to show that I think we got a kick out of seeing you together than we give progress on how we're moving that forward with various demos >>you don't want to ask you. Last year we asked the chief operating officer and the CEO Bumi what their investment priorities were going into the next year. And they said Number one was product. So that was a key thing. First and foremost go to market and then customer equation. But a product has been a big focus. That continues to be. What >>is >>the problem? Does it mean product when your chief product officer, what do you overseeing? Talk about What is the product? What is the platform And is there a difference? >>Yeah, I mean, so we we talk about the problem because we're in the product group, but we definitely see it as a platform. The investment in product is great. It means I get to spend lots of money like about my new converse. I won't try to show them, but way, but yeah, I mean, the investment partners being that we know that as we get Maur is this is this economy keeps building of integration and connective iti wanna continue to hold our leadership. We need to invest in product to make it easier. The expectations of our users is that they get a really premium experience when they're on board it onto the platform. We have to make sure we keep up to date with all of that effort. So a lot of what we talked about, it's how one is that we break our product up into discreet service is to allow us to move faster from an engineering perspective. And there's a lot of stuff that goes on there to think about ourselves as a platform to make sure we're fully extensible on. Then providing Maura Maura service is that people can build on our platform. So a lot of that investment just driving those >>activity. Rick was on yesterday talking about the big bets they made early on that are paying off. One of them was Aussie Cloud. On seeing that as you look at the architecture of this kind of new era of clobbering cloud to point, are we calling it? There's new requirements. It's the glue layers being built out. You need data to be accessible on addressable and available in real time, and you have multiple systems to talk to hence the integration you guys are doing. But this new mega trends happening is event driven architectures, which you guys talk about. There's a P I's just going from rest ful to state. And so you have micro service is here. So these air new dynamics Can >>you take >>a minute displaying like what all this means And what is event driven infrastructure? >>Yeah, a venture of architecture. But yeah, that's well, that's what we've been calling it. But yeah, I mean, it's basically that we're going to models where we're responding in real time to things that are happening out there on that revolt that involves a whole new level of scale. But, you know, we're also getting to things like streaming soas. Data come comes in, it's coming in, not in these packets, but it's constantly being fed to you, sir, constantly having to process it. You know, before in the integration space, it was like what? You'd set up a schedule you'd say, move that data at midnight from there to there and then it got faster and booming, provided real time, which was a request response that you send it personally, require a response back. But now it's like we're not going to just send it to you as a discreet thing. We're going to send it to you constantly, so event driven architectures. But how do you handle this continuous influx of data? And it's not getting any less. So how do you kind of manage this? We're being pulled in. Both ends were being pulled. There's never been more data that you never wanted to have faster. So it's like, How do you manage that? So for Bhumi, you know, that's why we're investing so heavily. >>Used to be in the old days when things were slower, events were like a trigger in a network management software alarm notification. Now they're happening. All the time is more and more events and paying attention to what events becomes a non human thing. Yeah, it's a software thing. Is that kind of where this is going? >>Yeah, well, I >>mean, we've been thinking >>a lot about that, like we sort of feel it. One is that we're gonna grow up from being on iPods to more of a data management vendor. We think that, like where the data manager in the future will come from an I pass, that we will be managing your data across like all of these systems from the catalogue and preparation to the, you know, actually integration and surfacing it up in real time and all that kind of streaming side. So I know it's Ah yeah, it's an evolving field for sure. >>One final point on this topic of product AP eyes have been great. They really made the market. Going back to the original Web service is in early two thousands to cloud. Where does a P I go? A A p I to dot or whatever you call it. What's the next Gen Place for AP? Eyes? >>Well, so it's interesting course. So we >>have >>a slightly different view of a pie management. That may be the typical AP management space, which is one thing to declare openly. But I think I >>want to >>go with that. Were right in the sense that cause I would think that because I'm a product, >>it's a good thing for a product. I don't think so Go >>and we're more than a little opinionated. So >>it is here, >>but yeah. Is that like sure. I mean, with a p I You need a gateway you need for the proxy ap eyes. Wherever they may be, wherever they may be developed. Other you build him and Bumi or you code them yourself when you told him, Manage those and throttle and scale and add policies and, you know, have developers registered to use them and monitor their usage and cut them off and have quotas. All that kind of that is old, fantastically good stuff. You know, there's lots of understeer doing a lot of that. We're adding Maur Mork capabilities there. But for us, a p I is really about AP enabling absolutely everything like we're in this world where you got refrigerators, two autonomous vehicles to cloud infrastructure to pivotal to all these different environments. And you have to have a tool that how do you How do you manage a P I across this incredibly disparate landscape of tools, technologies, things, infrastructure and it's one thing to say. OK, we could manage a P eyes and you install our software. Well, that's not good enough because, you know, with our customer like Jack in the box. They have 2200 plus retail locations. Nice have joked in my keynote that it's like painting Golden Gate Bridge. If you had to upgrade your gateway every time there was enough grade needed. It's like pain the Golden Gate Bridge to get to the end and you start all over again. That's 2200 plus retail locations. You know, I work for Dow. Ultimately is the holy owner of our business. He put five billion P seas on the planet. What if you had a gateway on five billion peces like, How do you manage that from a single control plane in the cloud? And that's what we're after. How do you do that huge scale AP enabling literally everything. >>And this was kind of under the concept of run anywhere that waas Yes, >>yes, yeah, and that was because we wanted to emphasize that it was about running Ap eyes and a pen, enabling things wherever they may be. That's why we put it under the run anywhere Banner. >>What's the biggest thing that you guys have done this year from last movie world that you're proud of? In terms of product or technology or something that could be of some obscure something prominent. What do you do? You proud of? What's the big thing? >>Yeah, well, for a point of perspective, it would be the AP I side for sure, because that was that was a big lift. There was a lot of work involved. We kind of moved ourselves forward very, very quickly in our capabilities on a p I with Gateway portal proxy, you know, literally within the span of just over a year. So that was Ah, big left. But I would, you know, because I also run engineering. So I feel like I need to, like, geek out a little bit. I mean, one of my proud things is, actually, we started wrestling and wrangling that 30 terabytes plus of metadata and starting to see what's in there. And like, anything in data science, you know, you're kind of like looking at weaken start. We started seeing all sorts of cool new things. Now I'm not gonna talk about it the inside side, But you start to see new things. We start to see ways that that meditated can be applied. So we built the infrastructure It's huge scale, massive scale they might have meditated, were ingesting and then analyzing eyes helping us, you know, improve productivity across the platforms. We talk a lot about being more efficient, more effective, so you'll see more of that in the pub. >>Can you clear up the just the commentary around the definition around single tenant instance? And when customers do multi tenant, because the benefit of the single tenants what the main core value proposition with the data, the unification of data? That's awesome. But there's also potential opportunities with customs. Might want have a roll run through things. So you have flexibility. Is that true? Is that the definite Take us through what the difference when, when multi tenant kicks in and what's >>well, so on our platform multi tendencies s. So if you think about the build experience when you're your dragon dropping, pointing, clicking, building your work flows or your processes for managing your data, you do that in the cloud, and then you can decide where you wanna put that. So where is that actually gonna be executed? And you can put it in our cloud, which is our multi tenant cloud, and then you. Could we manage it all for you? And that's fantastic. You can point or manage. Cloud service is if you have very specific requirements, usually around security, Sometimes around hyper scale. Well may put you in a manage cloud service environment. But then, if you have very sensitive data, you may want to run that workload and then stole our little run time. Adam, you know behind your firewall so we never see the data. So it's super sensitive. We don't see it. We >>see how >>it's running and we manage it. We have grade that that infrastructure for you, but we never see your data, so it kind of gives you the best of both worlds. You could be a cloud first, cloud only vendor, and you can be a traditional on perimeter. You could be a hybrid of both >>is not a requirement. The product. It's a customer choice. >>It's a total customer choice. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah, and I think actually we're one of the few that does it the way we've been doing for a long time. And it's hard, by the way, because it's like maintaining that compatibility For 10 plus years, is quite difficult to make sure everything works every time. We have, like 9000 >>customers and 80 plus countries. But on the the 30 plus terabytes of anonymous metadata, you are very clear this morning and saying that it's just the metadata that's not the actual have any any, you know, private information from any of our customers. But in terms of leveraging that data for those insights where some of the things that from last spoon me world to this one, that that access to all that data has what some are. Some of the announcements, maybe that came out today that you guys looked at saying, It's these are some of the nuggets that were able to pull out because we have the access to this musing. Maybe it's a I or what not gonna give you >>some examples in one was the the suggested filters. And it was a simple thing. I did sort of like that joke of It's one small step for Bhumi customers, but a giant leap for booming engineering. But because we rebuild a whole bunch of infrastructure to dio but suggested filters just making it easier to query information of various systems. And it is cool because it literally is looking your system, comparing it with other customers systems based on how you've configured in this case Attilio environment and then working out actually, based on what people are doing. This is kind of what the filter might look like for you, which is very, very personalized to the user. Based on intelligence. We have more That's on the bill tight. We have more on the deployment side because you can show you, actually hey, few of built in a p. I do want to deploy it out, too. A raspberry pie will. Actually, you probably want to configure the AP. I like this where you may find you see some issues here, and that's not static information that's evolving from the metadata. We can see the performance of your systems against the Oxy. All right, In that environment, I do it a bit like this. Or if you deploy to say, I Jules, we might make recommendations based on that process of that, a p I or that data quality hub that you wantto excess just make your systems run like this. So it's kind of predicting how you deployed >>I was about to say, Are you helping customers get predicted with us? >>Yes. And there's lots we can do there. I mean, like, so we'll do Maura. Maura. But we can automatically optimize your deployment. So if it's in our cloud, that that'll happens automatically. So helps us, too. But for customers, it's also making just go. Okay, we'll deploy it. And then the leverage that community to so see what works best. The most successful deployment, the most successful architecture and the way you've deployed it is was what you'll be matched with. And then the same with the run time. With monitoring, we can start to look at things and see will. Well, not slowing down a little bit. Actually, it's Linden the string error. A little bit, actually, based on what we've seen before, that system may be about to fall over, so you might want to get all not before completely does what it's gonna do. >>Well, we got you here. I want to get your definition of cloud two point. Oh, on We've been riffing on this. Been more of a takeoff on Web two point. Oh, because cloud one daughter was anything Amazon you know storage. Compute some networking, but it's Amazon that working. But you scale up start ups will go there. It's beautiful thing, but now it's enterprise. Start to embrace cloud with hybrid on premises and deal with all these hard problems and challenges. Crazy opportunity. An operating model for on premises Cloud Club one Dato Amazon. Really easy to work with. Scales are beautiful. Cloud to point is different. I got things to deal with. Observe, abilities, a hot thing you got kubernetes containers you got. How would you define what cloud? Two pointers for Enterprise? >>We'll think because we're all about the data cloud 2.0, is really like for us. Ah, data problem. I mean, it's just like E think before I mean, I was part of cells force for a while. Is this whole idea of like earlier data in the cloud will manageable for you. But when you're getting into the kind of environments were seeing, say, there's just too much data like you, it's not feasible. I mean, give you an example. Bumi itself. We moved our infrastructure customers was transplanted customers from Rackspace to eight of us Last year it was a big engineering lift to do. You can imagine moving 9000 plus customers over on our cloud Ah, design surface that but so we did that, but actually to move the data, it was so much it was actually faster to put the disk drives in the back of a van. No mobile moving over snowball using the wheel network, you know, the engine motor e one and then put the hard drives in. And then we did our sink to bring them back up so that we have the same data in both locations. And that's just an example of the kind of customer data that customers are routinely struggling with. And cloud wasn't set up for that. But that's becoming day to day now, so you need a highly distributed architecture. It was probably why we announced the Adam Fabric, which is really a fabric of connectivity, as much as is a fabric of data, so we don't need to move your data around. You can leave it where it is. We can do some analysis on it as part of an end to end >>Program Cube alumni that I was on the cube a couple weeks ago, he said. Data is the new software, data and software. What's your reaction to that when you hear that? >>To some extent, >>I think that's a CZ, A bit of a business process geek. I think you know this process around data for sure. But But I do think I've heard similar things with, like, actually, applications come and go. Business processes come and go, but the data remains so I think maybe in some respects, your date is the new software Could be a term I I could buy into a Well, >>Steve, it's been great having you on the Cube with John and me sharing all of the things that you guys have done in the last 11 months. I can't wait to see how everything becomes a P. I enabled. Still, next Bumi World, you gotta come back. Yeah, All right. Our pleasure for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Bhumi World 19. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon, Europe, 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, we're at the end of two days, wall-to-wall coverage here at KubeCon CloudNativeCon here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for two days has been Corey Quinn. Corey, we've gone two days, it's five years of Kubernetes, and everybody's been wondering when are you going to sing happy birthday to Fippy and the Kubernetes team? >> Generally, no one wants to hear me sing more than once, because first, I don't have a great singing voice, but more importantly, I insist on calling it Corey-oki, and it just doesn't resonate with people. The puns don't land as well as you'd hope they would. >> Maybe not singing, but you are a master of limericks, I'm told. >> So they tell me, most are unprintable, but that's a separate argument for another time. >> Alright, so, Corey this is your first time at KubeCon. >> It is. >> In CloudNativeCon, we've done some analysis segments, I thought we've had some phenomenal guests, some great end-users, some thought leaders, >> We had some great times. >> You need to pick your favorite right now. >> Oh, everyone's going to pick their own favorite on this one, but I've got to say it was, it would have to be, hands down, Abby Fuller, from AWS. Not that I didn't enjoy all of our guests -- >> Is it because you have AWS on your Lapel pin, and that secretly you do work for Amazon? >> Hardly, just the opposite, in fact. It's that, given that my newsletter makes fun of AWS on a near constant basis, whenever someone says Oh, there's going to be a public thing with Corey and someone from AWS, half the people there are like, Oh, this is going to be good, and the other half turn ghost white and Oh, no, no, this is going to go awfully. And, I'll be honest, it's been a day now, I still don't know which it was, but we had fun. >> Yeah, so, Abby was phenomenal, loved having her on the program, I'm a sucker for the real transformational stories, I tell you Jeff Brewer from Intuit, there's been many times I do a show and I do like, the first interview, and I'm like, I can go home. Here we hear a company that we know, both of us have used this technology, and really walks us through how that transformation happens, some of the organizational things. They've brought some software in and they're contributing to it, so just many aspects of what I look at in a company that's modernizing and going through those pieces. And those kinds of stories always get me excited. >> That story was incredible, and in fact it's almost starting to turn into a truth and labeling issue, for lack of a better term, because this is the Cloudnative Foundation, the software is designed for things that were more or less born in the cloud, and now we're hearing this entire series of stories on transitioning in. And it almost feels like that's not native anymore, that's effectively something that is migrating in. And that's fantastic, it's a sign of maturity, it's great to see. And it's strange to think of that, that in the terms of the software itself is absolutely Cloudnative, it's not at all clear that the companies that are working with this are themselves. And that's okay, that's not a terrible thing. There was some snark from the keynote today about, here's a way to run web logic in Kubernetes, and half the audience was looking at this with a, Eeee, why would I ever want to do that? Because you're running web logic and you need to continue to run web logic, and you can either sit there and make fun of people, you can help them get to a different place than they are now that helps their business become more agile and improves velocity, but I don't think you can effectively do both. >> Yeah, Corey, anything that's over than 5 years old why would you ever want to do that? Because you must always do things the brand new way. Oh wait, let's consider this for a second, lift and shift is something that I cringe a little bit when I hear it because there's too many times that I would hear a customer say I did this, and I hadn't fully planned out how I was doing it, and then I clawed it back because it was neither cheap nor easy, I swiped that credit card and it wasn't what I expected. >> Yeah, I went ahead and decided to run on a cloud provider now my infrastructure runs on someone else's infrastructure, and then a few months go by, and the transition doesn't happen right, I was wrong, it's not running on someone else's infrastructure, it's running on money. What do I do? And that became something that was interesting for a lot of companies, and painful as well. You can do that, but you need to plan the second shift phase to take longer than you think it will, you will not recoup savings in the time frame you probably expect to, but that's okay because it's usually not about that. It's a capability story. >> I had hoped that we learned as an industry. You might remember the old phrase, my mess for less? By outsourcing, and then we'll, Oh wait, I put it in an environment, they don't really understand my business, I can't make changes in the way I want, I need to insource now my knowledge to be able to work close with the business, and therefore no matter where I put my valuable code, my valuable information and I run stuff, I'm responsible for it and even if I move it there as a first step, I need to make sure how do I actually optimize it for that environment from a cost savings, there's lots of things that I can to change those kind of things. >> The one cautionary tale I'm picking up from a lot of these stories has been that you need to make sure the people you're talking to, and the trusted advisors that you have are aligned with your incentives, not their own. No matter where you go, there's an entire sea of companies that are thrilled and lined up to sell you something. And that's not inherently a bad thing, but you need to understand that whenever you're having those conversations, there's a potential conflict of interest. Not necessarily an actual one, but pay attention. You can partner with someone, but at some point your interests do diverge. >> Okay, Corey, what other key learnings or sound bites did you get from some of our speakers this week? >> There were an awful lot of them. I think that's the first time I've ever seen, for example, a project having pieces removed from it, Tiller, in this case, and a bunch of people clapped and cheered. They've been ripped out of Helm, it's oh awesome, normally the only time you see something get ripped out and people cheer is when they finally fire that person you work with. Usually, that person is me, then everyone claps and cheers, which, frankly, if you've met me, that makes sense. For software, it's less common. But we saw that, we saw two open-source projects merging. >> Yeah. >> We had, it was-- >> Open telemetry is the new piece. >> With open senses and open tracing combining, you don't often see that done in anything approaching a responsible way, but we've seen it now. And there's been a lot of people a little miffed that there weren't a whole bunch of new features and services and what not launched today. That's a sign of maturity. It means that there's a stability story that is now being told. And I think that that's something that's very easy to overlook if you're interested in a pure development perspective. >> Just to give a little bit of a cautionary piece there, we had Mark Shuttleworth on the program, he said Look, there are certain emperors walking around the show floor that have no clothes on. Had Tim talking, Joe Beta, and Gabe Monroy on, some of the earliest people working on Kubernetes and they said Look, five years in, we've reached a certain level of maturity, but Tim Hoggin was like, we have so much to do, our sigs are overrunning with what I need to do now, so don't think we can declare success, cut the cake, eat the donuts, grab the t-shirt, and say great let's go on to the next great thing because there is so much more yet to do. >> There's absolutely a consulting opportunity for someone to set up shop and call it imperial tailoring. Where they're going around and helping these people realize that yes, you've come an incredibly long way, but there is so much more work to be done, there is such a bright future. Now I would not call myself a screaming advocate for virtually any technology, I hope. I think that Kubernetes absolutely has it's place. I don't think it's a Penesea, and I don't think that it is going to necessarily be the right fit for every work load. I think that most people, once you get them calmed down, and the adrenaline has worn off, would largely agree with that sentiment. But that nuance often gets lost in a world of tweets, it's a nuanced discussion that doesn't lend itself well to rapid fire, quick sound bites. >> Corey, another thing I know that is near and dear to your heart they brought in diversity scholarships. >> Yes. >> So 56 people got their pass and travel paid for to come here. There's really good, People in the community are very welcoming, yet in the same breath, when they talked about the numbers, and Cheryl was up on stage saying only three percent of the people contributing and making changes were women. And so, therefore, we still have work to do to make sure that, you've mentioned a couple of times on the program. >> Absolutely, and it is incredibly important, but one of the things that gives me some of the most hope for that is how many companies or organizations would run numbers like that and realize that three percent of their contributors are women, and then mention it during a keynote. That's almost unheard of for an awful lot of companies, instead they wind up going and holding that back. One company we don't need to name, wound up trying to keep that from coming out in a court case as a trade secret, of all things. And that's generally, depressingly, what you would often expect. The fact that they called it out, and the fact that they are having a diversity scholarship program, they are looking at actively at ways to solve this problem is I think the right answer. I certainly don't know what the fix is going to be for any of this, but something has to happen, and the fact that they are not sitting around waiting for the problem to fix itself, they're not casting blame around a bunch of different directions is inspirational. I'm probably not the best person to talk on this, but the issue is, you're right, it is very important to me and it is something that absolutely needs to be addressed. I'm very encouraged by the conversations we had with Cheryl Hung and several other people these last couple of days, and I'm very eager to see where it goes next. >> Okay, Corey, what about any things you've been hearing in the back channel, hallway conversations, any concerns out there? The one from my standpoint where I say, well, security is something that for most of my career was top of mine, and bottom of budget, and from day one, when you talk about containers and everything, security is there. There are a number of companies in this space that are starting to target it, but there's not a lot of VC money coming into this space, and there are concerns about how much real focus there will be to make sure security in this ecosystem is there. Every single platform that this is going to live in, whether you talk the public clouds, talk about companies like Red Hat, and everybody else here, security is a big piece of their message and their focus, but from a CNCF if there was one area that I didn't hear enough about at this show, I thought it might be storage, but feels like we are making progress there, so security's the one I come out with and say I want to know more, I want to see more. >> One thing that I thought was interesting is we spoke to Reduxio earlier, and they were talking about one of their advantages was that they are quote enterprise grade, and normally to me that means we have slides with war and peace written on every one. And instead what they talked about was they have not just security built into this, but they have audit ability, they have an entire, they have data lifecycle policies, they have a level of maturity that is necessary if we're going to start winning some of these serious enterprise and regulated workloads. So, there are companies active in this space. But I agree with you, I think that it is not been a primary area of focus. But if you look at how quickly this entire, I will call it a Kubernetes revolution, because anything else takes on religious overtones, it's been such a fast Twitch type of environment that security does get left behind, because it's never a concern or a priority until it's too late. And then it becomes a giant horses left, barn door's been closed story, and I hope we don't have to learn that. >> So, MultiCloud, Corey, have you changed your mind? >> I don't think so, I still maintain that MultiCloud within the absence of a business reason is not a best practice. I think that if you need to open that door for business reasons then Kubernetes is not a terrible way to go about achieving it. But I do question whether it's something everyone needs to put into their system design principles on day one. >> Okay, must companies be born CloudNative, or can they mature into a CloudNative, or we should be talking a different term maybe? >> I don't know if it's a terminology issue, we've certainly seen companies that were born in on-prem environments where the classic example of this is Capital One. They are absolutely going all in on public cloud, they have been very public about how they're doing it. Transformation is possible, it runs on money and it takes a lot more time and effort than anyone thinks it's going to, but as long as you have the right incentives and the right reason to do things it absolutely becomes possible. That said, it is potentially easier, if you're born in the cloud, to a point. If you get ossified into existing patterns and don't pay attention to what's happening, you look at these companies that are 20 years old, and oh they're so backwards they'll never catch up. If you live that long, that will be you someday. So it's very important to not stop paying attention to what the larger ecosystem is doing, because you don't want to be the only person responsible for levels of your stack that you don't want to have to be responsible for. >> Alright, want to give you the final word. Corey, any final things, any final questions for me? >> Fundamentally I think that this has been an incredible event. Where we've had great conversations with people who are focused on an awful lot of different things. There are still a bunch of open questions. I still, for example, think that Serverless is being viewed entirely too much through a lens of functions as a service, but I'm curious as far as what you took away from this. What did you learn this trip that you didn't expect to learn? >> So, it's interesting when we talk about the changing world of OpenSource. There's been some concern lately that what's happening in the public cloud, well, maybe OpenSource will be imploding. Well, it really doesn't feel that way to me when you talk at this show, we've actually used the line a couple of times, Kubernetes is people. It is not the vendors jested, >> Internet of flesh. >> There are people here. We've all seen people that we know that have passions for what they are doing, and that goes above and beyond where they live. And in this community it is project first, and the company you work for is second or third consideration in there. So, there's this groundswell of activity, we're big believers of the world can be changed if, I don't need everybody's full time commitment, if you could just take two percent of the US's watching of TV in a single year, you could build Wikipedia. Clay Sharky, one of my greats that I love from those environments, we believe that the network and communities really can make huge efforts and it's great to see tech for good and for progress and many of the outcomes of that we see here is refreshingly uplifting to kind of pull us out of some of the day-to-day things that we think about sometimes. >> Absolutely, I think that you're right, it has to come from people, it has to come from community, and so far I'm seeing a lot of encouraging signs. One thing that I do find slightly troubling that may or may not resolve itself is that we're still seeing CloudNative defined in terms of what it's not. That said, this is theCUBE, I am not Stu Miniman. >> Well, I am Stu Miniman, you are Corey Quinn. Corey, how's it been two days on theCUBE wall-to-wall through all these things, ready for a nap or fly home? >> I'm ready to call it a week, absolutely. I'm somewhat surprised that at no point have you hit me. And one of these days I am sure we will cross that border. >> Well, definitely, I try not to have any video or photo evidence of that, but thank you Corey, so much. We do have to make a big shout out, first and foremost to the CloudNative Computing Foundation without their partnership, we would not be able to come here. And we do have sponsorship if you look on the lower thirds of the videos you will see our headline sponsor for this show has been Red Hat. Obviously strong commitment in this community, and will be with us here and also in San Diego for KubeCon. Additional shout out to Cisco, Canonical, and Reduxio for their sponsorship here. And all the people that put on this show here, it's a big community, our team. So I want to make a big shout out to my boys here, coming in I've got Pat, Seth, flying in from the West Coast as well as the Tony Day crew Tony, Steve, and John. Thank you guys, beautiful set here, love the gimble with the logo. Branding here, lot's of spectacle, and we always say check out thecube.com to see all the replays as well, see where we will be, reach out with any questions, and thank you as always, for watching theCUBE. (upbeat jingle)

(upbeat techno music) >> Live from Barcelona Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat, The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back, this is The Cube's coverage of KubeCon CloudNativeCon 2019. I'm Stu Miniman with Corey Quinn as my cohost, even though he says kucon. And joining us on this segment, we're not going debate how we pronounce certain things, but I will try to make sure that I get Bridget Kromhout correct. She is a Principle Cloud Advocate at Microsoft. Thank you for coming back to The Cube. >> Thank you for having me again. This is fun! >> First of all I do have to say, the bedazzled shirt is quite impressive. We always love the sartorial, ya know, view we get at a show like this because there are some really interesting shirts and there is one guy in a three-piece suit. But ya know-- >> There is, it's the high style, got to have that. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Bringing some class to the joint. >> Wearing a suit is my primary skill. (laughing) >> I will tell you that, yes, they sell this shirt on the Microsoft company store. And yes, it's only available in unisex fitted. Which is to say much like Alice Goldfuss likes to put it, ladies is gender neutral. So, all of the gentleman who say, but I have too much dad bod to wear that shirt! I say, well ya know get your bedazzlers out. You too can make your own shirt. >> I say it's not dad bod, it's a father figure, but I digress. (laughing) >> Exactly! >> Alright, so Bridget you're doing some speaking at the conference. You've been at this show a few times. Tell us, give us a bit of an overview of what you're doing here and your role at Microsoft these days. >> Absolutely. So, my talk is tomorrow and I think that, I'm going to go with its a vote of confidence that they put your talk on the last day at 2:00 P.M. instead of the, oh gosh, are they trying to bury it? But no, it's, I have scheduled enough conferences myself that I know that you have to put some stuff on the last day that people want to go to, or they're just not going to come. And my talk is about, and I'm co-presenting with my colleague, Jessica Deen, and we're talking about Helm 3. Which is to say, I think a lot of times it would, with these open-sourced shows people say, oh, why do you have to have a lot of information about the third release of your, third major release of your project? Why? It's just an iterative release. It is, and yet there are enough significant differences that it's kind of valuable to talk about, at least the end user experience. >> Yeah, so it actually got an applause in the keynote, ya know. (Bridget laughing) There are certain shows where people are hootin' and hollerin' for every, different compute instance that that is released and you look at it a little bit funny. But at the keynote there was a singular moment where it was the removal of Tiller which Corey and I have been trying to get feedback from the community as to what this all means. >> It seems, from my perspective, it seemed like a very strange thing. It's, we added this, yay! We added this other thing, yay! We're taking this thing and ripping it out and throwing it right into the garbage and the crowd goes nuts. And my two thoughts are first, that probably doesn't feel great if that was the thing you spent a lot of time working on, but secondly, I'm not as steep in the ecosystem as perhaps I should be and I don't really know what it does. So, what does it do and why is everyone super happy to con sine it to the dub rubbish bin of history? >> Right, exactly. So, first of all, I think it's 100% impossible to be an expert on every single vertical in this ecosystem. I mean, look around, KubeCon has 7,000 plus people, about a zillion vendor booths. They're all doing something that sounds slightly, overlapping and it's very confusing. So, in the Helm, if you, if people want to look we can say there's a link in the show notes but there, we can, people can go read on Helm.sh/blog. We have a seven part, I think, blog series about exactly what the history and the current release is about. But the TLDR, the too long didn't follow the link, is that Helm 1 was pretty limited in scope, Helm 2 was certainly more ambitious and it was born out of a collaboration between Google actually and a few other project contributors and Microsoft. And, the Tiller came in with the Google folks and it really served a need at that specific time. And it was, it was a server-side component. And this was an era when the Roll by Stacks has control and Kubernetes was, well nigh not existent. And so there were a lot of security components that you kind of had to bolt on after the fact, And once we got to, I think it was Kubernetes 1.7 or 1.8 maybe, the security model had matured enough that instead of it being great to have this extra component, it became burdensome to try to work around the extra component. And so I think that's actually a really good example of, it's like you were saying, people get excited about adding things. People sometimes don't get excited about removing things, but I think people are excited about the work that went into, removing this particular component because it ends up reducing the complexity in terms of the configuration for anyone who is using this system. >> It felt very spiritually aligned in some ways, with the announcement of Open Telemetry, where you're taking two projects and combining them into one. >> Absolutely. >> Where it's, oh, thank goodness, one less thing that-- >> Yes! >> I have to think about or deal with. Instead of A or B I just mix them together and hopefully it's a chocolate and peanut butter moment. >> Delicious. >> One of the topics that's been pretty hot in this ecosystem for the last, I'd say two years now it's been service matched, and talk about some complexity. And I talk to a guy and it's like, which one of these using? Oh I'm using all three of them and this is how I use them in my environment. So, there was an announcement spearheaded by Microsoft, the Service Mesh Interface. Give us the high level of what this is. >> So, first of all, the SMI acronym is hilarious to me because I got to tell you, as a nerdy teenager I went to math camp in the summertime, as one did, and it was named SMI. It was like, Summer Mathematics Institute! And I'm like, awesome! Now we have a work project that's named that, happy memories of lots of nerdy math. But my first Unix system that I played with, so, but what's great about that, what's great about that particular project, and you're right that this is very much aligned with, you're an enterprise. You would very much like to do enterprise-y things, like being a bank or being an airline or being an insurance company, and you super don't want to look at the very confusing CNCF Project Map and go, I think we need something in that quadrant. And then set your ships for that direction, and hopefully you'll get to what you need. And it's especially when you said that, you mentioned that, this, it basically standardizes it, such that whichever projects you want to use, whichever of the N, and we used to joke about JavaScript framework for the week, but I'm pretty sure the Service Mesh Project of the week has outstripped it in terms of like speed, of new projects being released all the time. And like, a lot of end user companies would very much like to start doing something and have it work and if the adorable start-up that had all the stars on GitHub and the two contributors ends up, and I'm not even naming a specific one, I'm just saying like there are many projects out there that are great technically and maybe they don't actually plan on supporting your LTS. And that's fine, but if we end up with this interface such that whatever service mesh, mesh, that's a hard word. Whatever service mesh technology you choose to use, you can be confident that you can move forward and not have a horrible disaster later. >> Right, and I think that's something that a lot of developers when left to our own devices and in my particular device, the devices are pretty crappy. Where it becomes a, I want to get this thing built, and up and running and working, and then when it finally works I do a happy dance. And no one wants to see that, I promise. It becomes a very different story when, okay, how do you maintain this? How do you responsibly keep this running? And it's, well I just got it working, what do you mean maintain it? I'm done, my job is done, I'm going home now. It turns out that when you have a business that isn't being the most clever person in the room, you sort of need to have a longer term plan around that. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And it's nice to see that level of maturation being absorbed into the ecosystem. >> I think the ecosystem may finally be ready for it. And this is, I feel like, it's easy for us to look at examples of the past, people kind of shake their heads at OpenStack as a cautionary tale or of Sprawl and whatnot. But this is a thriving, which means growing, which means changing, which means very busy ecosystem. But like you're pointing out, if your enterprises are going to adapt some of this technology, they look at it and everyone here was, ya know, eating cupcakes or whatever for the Kubernetes fifth birthday, to an enterprise just 'cause that launched in 2014, June 2014, that sounds kind of new. >> Oh absolutely. >> Like, we're still, we're still running that mainframe that is still producing business value and actually that's fine. I mean, I think this maybe is one of the great things about a company like Microsoft, is we are our customers. Like we also respect the fact that if something works you don't just yolo a new thing out into production to replace it for what reason? What is the business value of replacing it? And I think for this, that's why this, kind of Unix philosophy of the very modular pieces of this ecosystem and we were talking about Helm a little earlier, but there's also, Draft, Brigade, etc. Like the Porter, the CNET spec implementation stuff, and this Cloud Native application bundles, that's a whole mouthful. >> Yes, well no disrespect to your sparkly shirt, but chasing the shiny thing, and this is new and exciting is not necessarily a great thing. >> Right? >> I heard some of the shiny squad that were on the show floor earlier, complaining a little bit about the keynotes, that there haven't been a whole lot of new service and feature announcements. (Bridget laughing) And my opinion on that is feature not bug. I, it turns out most of us have jobs that aren't keeping up with every new commit to an open-source project. >> I think what you were talking about before, this idea of, I'm the developer, I yolo'd out this co-load into production, or I yolo'd this out into production. It is definitely production grade as long as everything stays on the happy path, and nothing unexpected happens. And I probably have air handling, and, yay! We had the launch party, we're drinkin' and eatin' and we're happy and we don't really care that somebody is getting paged. And, it's probably burning down. And a lot of human misery is being poured into keeping it working. I like to think that, considering that we're paying attention to our enterprise customers and their needs, they're pretty interested in things that don't just work on day one, but they work on day two and hopefully day 200 and maybe day 2000. And like, that doesn't mean that you ship something once and you're like, okay, we don't have to change it for three years. It's like, no, you ship something, then you keep iterating on it, you keep bug fixing, you keep, sure you want features, but stability is a feature. And customer value is a feature. >> Well, Bridget I'm glad you brought that up. Last thing I want to ask you 'cause Microsoft's a great example, as you say, as a customer, if you're an Azure customer, I don't ask you what version of Azure you're running or whether you've done the latest security patch that's in there because Microsoft takes care of you. Now, your customers that are pulled between their two worlds is, oh, wait, I might have gotten rid of patch Tuesdays, but I still have to worry and maintain that environment. How are they dealing with, kind of that new world and still have, certain things that are going to stay the old way that they have been since the 90's or longer? >> I mean, obviously it's a very broad question and I can really only speak to the Kubernetes space, but I will say that the customers really appreciate, and this goes for all the Cloud providers, when there is something like the dramatic CVE that we had in December for example. It's like, oh, every Kubernetes cluster everywhere is horribly insecure! That's awesome! I guess, your API gateway is also an API welcome mat for everyone who wants to, do terrible things to your clusters. All of the vendors, Microsoft included, had their managed services patched very quickly. They're probably just like your Harple's of the world. If you rolled your own, you are responsible for patching, maintaining, securing your own. And this is, I feel like that's that tension. That's that continuum we always see our customers on. Like, they probably have a data center full of ya know, veece, fear and sadness, and they would very much like to have managed happiness. And that doesn't mean that they can easily pickup everything in the data center, that they have a lease on and move it instantly. But we can work with them to make sure that, hey, say you want to run some Kubernetes stuff in your data center and you also want to have AKS. Hey, there's this open-source project that we instantiated, that we worked on with other organizations called Vertual Kubelet. There was actually a talk happening about it I think in the last hour, so people can watch the video of that. But, we have now offered, we now have Virtual Node, our product version of it in GA. And I think this is kind of that continuum. It's like, yes of course, you're early adapters want the open-source to play with. Your enterprises want it to be open-source so they can make sure that their security team is happy having reviewed it. But, like you're saying, they would very much like to consume a service so they can get to business value. Like they don't necessarily want to, take, Kelsey's wonderful Kubernetes The Hard Way Tutorial and put that in production. It's like, hmm, probably not, not because they can't, these are smart people, they absolutely could do that. But then they spent their, innovation tokens as, the McKinley blog post puts it, the, it's like, choose boring technology. It's not wrong. It's not that boring is the goal, it's that you want the exciting to be in the area that is producing value for your organization. Like that's where you want most of your effort to go. And so if you can use well vetted open-source that is cross industry standard, stuff like SMI that is going to help you use everything that you chose, wisely or not so wisely, and integrate it and hopefully not spend a lot of time redeveloping. If you redevelop the same applications you already had, its like, I don't think at the end of the quarter anybody is getting their VP level up. If you waste time. So, I think that is, like, one of the things that Microsoft is so excited about with this kind of open-source stuff is that our customers can get to value faster and everyone that we collaborate with in the other clouds and with all of these vendor partners you see on the show floor, can keep the ecosystem moving forward. 'Cause I don't know about you but I feel like for a while we were all building different things. I mean like, instead of, for example, managed services for something like Kubernetes, I mean a few jobs that would go out was that a start up that we, we built our own custom container platform, as one did in 2014. And, we assembled it out of all the LEGOs and we built it out of I think Docker and Packer and Chef and, AWS at the time and, a bunch of janky bash because like if someone tells you there's no janky bash underneath your home grown platform, they are lying. >> It's always a lie, always a lie. >> They're lying. There's definitely bash in there, they may or may not be checking exit codes. But like, we all were doing that for a while and we were all building, container orchestration systems because we didn't have a great industry standard, awesome! We're here at KubeCon. Obviously Kubernetes is a great industry standard, but everybody that wants to chase the shiny is like but surface meshes. If I review talks for, I think I reviewed talks for KubeCon in Copenhagen, and it was like 50 or 60 almost identical service mesh talk proposals. And it's like, and then now, like so that was last year and now everyone is like server lists and its like, you know you still have servers. Like you don't add sensation to them, which is great, but you still have them. I think that that hype train is going to keep happening and what we need to do is make sure that we keep it usable for what the customers are trying to accomplish. Does that make sense? >> Bridget, it does, and unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much for sharing everything with our audience here. For Corey, I'm Stu, we'll be back with more coverage. Thanks for watching The Cube. (upbeat techno music)

>> live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the key covering KubeCon Cloud, Native Con Europe twenty nineteen by Red Hat, the Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, Spain >> were here of the era, and seventy seven hundred people are here for the KubeCon Cloud NativeCon, twenty, nineteen, Off student. My co host for the two days of coverage is Corey Quinn, and joining Me are the two co chairs of this CNC event. Janet Cooper, who is also thie, suffer engineer with Google and having done the wrap up on stage in the keynote this morning, find Lyle's a senior staff engineer with BM where thank you both for joining us, >> Thank you. >> Thanks for having me. >> So let's start. We're celebrating five years of Kubernetes as damn calm laid out this morning. You know, of course, you know came from Google board in over a decade of experience there. So it just helps out the state for us. >> Um, so I started working on communities since before the 1.4 release and then steal a project Montana today. And I feel so proud to see, uh, the progress off this project and its has grown exponentially. And today we have already thirty one thousand contributors and expect it to grow even more if you can. >> All right. So, Brian, you work with some of the original people that helped create who Burnett ease because you came to be and where, by way of the FTO acquisition, seventy seven hundred people here we said it. So it's, you know, just about the size of us feel that we had in Seattle a few months ago Way Expect that San Diego is going to be massive when we get there in the fall. But you know, talk to us is the co chair, you know, What's it mean to, you know, put something like this together? >> Well, so as ah is a long time open source person and seeing you know, all these companies move around for, you know, decades. Now it's nice to be a part of something that I saw from the sidelines for so, so long. I'm actually... it's kind of surreal because I didn't do anything special to get here. I just did what I was doing. And you know, Jan and I just wound up here together, so it's a great feeling, and it's the best part about it is whenever I get off stage and I walked outside and I walked back. It's like a ten minute walk each way. So many people are like, Yeah, you really made my morning And that's that's super special. >> Yeah. I mean, look, you know, we're we're huge fans of open source in general and, you know, communities, especially here. So look, there was no, you know, you both have full time jobs, and you're giving your time to support this. So thank you for what you did. And, you know, we know it takes an army to put together in a community. Some of these people, we're Brian, you know, you got upstate talk about all the various project. There's so many pieces here. We've only have a few minutes. Any kind of major highlights You wanna pull from the keynote? >> So the biggest. Actually, I I've only highlight won the open census open. Tracing merge is great, because not only because it's going to make a better product, but he had two pretty good pieces of software. One from Google, actually, literally both from Google. Ultimately, But they realize that. Hey, we have the same goals. We have similar interfaces. And instead of going through this arms race, what they did is sable. This is what we'LL do. We'LL create a new project and will merge them. That is, you know, that is one of the best things about open source. You know, you want to see this in a lot of places, but people are mature enough to say, Hey, we're going to actually make something bigger and better for everyone. And that was my favorite update. >> Yeah, well, I tell you, and I'm doing my job well, because literally like during the keynote, I reached out to Ben. And Ben and Morgan are going to come on the program to talk about that merging later today. That was interested. >> I've often been accused of having that first language being snark, and I guess in that light, something that I'm not particularly clear on, and this is not the setup for a joke. But one announcement that was made on stage today was that Tiller is no longer included in the current version of Wasn't Helm. Yes, yes, And everyone clapped and applauded, and my immediate response was first off. Wow, if you were the person that wrote Tiller, that probably didn't feel so good given. Everyone was copping and happy about it. But it seems that that was big and transformative and revelatory for a lot of the audience. What is Tiller and why is it perceived as being less than awesome? >> All right, so I will give you a disclaimer, >> please. >> The disclaimer is I do not work on the helm project... Wonderful >> ...so anything that I say should be fact checked. >> Excellent. >> So Well, so here's the big deal. When Tiller, when Helm was introduced, they had this thing called Tiller. And what tiller did was it ran at a basically a cluster wide level to make sure that it could coordinate software being installed and Kubernetes named Spaces or groups how Kubernetes applications are distributed. So what happens is is that that was the best vector for security problems. Basically, you had this root level piece of software running, and people were figuring out ways to get around it. And it was a big security hole. What >> they've done Just a component. It's an attack platform. It >> was one hundred percent. I mean, I remember bit. Nami actually wrote a block post. You know, disclaimer of'em were just bought that bit na me. >> Yes, I insisted It's called Bitten, am I? But we'LL get to that >> another. This's a disclaimer, You know, There Now you know there now my co workers But they wrote they were with very good article about a year and a half ago about just all the attack vectors, but and then also gave us solution around that. Now you don't need that solution. What you get by default. Now something is much more secure. And that's the most important piece. And I think the community really loves Helm, and now they have helm with better defaults. >> So, Janet, a lot of people at the show you talk about, you know, tens of thousands of contributors to it. But that being said, there's still a lot of the world that is just getting started. Part of the key note. And I knew you wrote something running workloads and cover Netease talk a little bit about how we're helping you know, those that aren't yet, you know, on board with you getting into the community ship. >> So I work on the C gaps. So she grabs one of the sub fracture that own is the work wells AP Eyes. That's why I had that. What post? About running for closing covered alleys. So basically, you you're using coronaries clarity, baby eyes to run a different type of application, and we call it were close. So you have stay full state wears or jobs and demons and you have different guys to run those clothes in the communities. And then for those who are just getting started, maybe start with, uh, stay last were close. That's the easiest one. And then for people who are looking Teo, contribute war I. I encouraged you to start with maybe small fixes, maybe take some documents or do some small P R's and you're reputations from there and star from small contributions and then feel all the way up. >> Yeah, so you know, one of one of the things when I look out there, you know, it's a complex ecosystem now, and, you know, there's a lot of pieces in there, you know, you know, trend we see is a lot of customers looking for manage services. A lot of you know, you know, I need opinions to help get me through all of these various pieces. You know what? What do you say to those people? And they're coming in And there's that, you know, paradox of choice When they, you know, come, come looking. You know, all the options out there. >> So I would say, Start with something simple that works. And then you can always ask others for advice for what works, What doesn't work. And you can hear from their success stories or failure stories. And then I think I recently he saw Block post about Some people in the community is collecting a potential failure stories. There is also a talk about humanity's fellow, the stories. So maybe you can go there and learn from the old those mistakes and then how to build a better system from there. >> I'd love that. We have to celebrate those failures that we hopefully can learn from them. Find anything on that, You know, from your viewpoint. >> Eso Actually, it's something I research is developer experience for you. Bernetti. So my communities is this whole big ping. I look on top of it and I'm looking at the outside in howto developers interact with Burnett, ese. And what we're seeing is that there's lots of room for opportunities and Mohr tools outside of the main community space that will help people actually interact with it because that's not really communities. Developers responsibility, you know, so one anything that I think that we're doing now is we're looking and this is something that we're doing and be aware that I can talk about is that we're looking at a P ice we're looking at. We realize that client go, which is the way that you burnett ese talks with sapi eyes, and a lot of people are using out externally were looking at. But what does it actually mean for human to use this and a lot of my work is just really around. Well, that's cool for computers. Now, what if a human has to use it? So what we're finding is that no. And I'm going to talk about this in my keynote tomorrow. You know, we're on this journey, and Kubernetes is not the destination. Coover Netease is the vehicle that is getting us to the destination that we don't even know what it is. So there's lots of spaces that we can look around to improve Kubernetes without even touching Cooper Netease itself, because actually, it's pretty good and it's fairly stable in a lot of cases. But it's hard, and that's the best part. So that's, you know, lots of work for us, the salt >> from my perspective. One of the turning points in Kou Burnett is a success. Story was when it got beyond just Google. Well, folks working on it. For better or worse, Google has a certain step of coding standards, and then you bring it to the real world, where there are people who are, Let's be honest, like me, where my coding standard is. I should try to right some some days, and not everything winds up having the same constraints. Not everything has the same approach. To some extent, it really feels like a tipping point for all of it was when you wind up getting to a position where people are bringing their real world workload that don't look like anything, anyone would be able to write a googol and keep their job. But still having to work with this, there was a wound up being sort of blossoming effect really accelerating the project. Conversely, other large infrastructure projects we need not mention when they had that tipping point in getting more people involved, they sort of imploded on themselves. I'm curious. Do you have any thoughts as to why you Burnett? He started thriving where other projects and failed trying to do the same things. >> I have something you go first. And >> I think the biggest thing about cybernetics is the really strong community and the ecosystem and also communities has the extensive bility for you to build on top of communities. We've seen people building from works, and then the platform is different platforms. Open source platforms on top of you. Burnett is so other people can use on other layers. Hyah. Layers off stacks on top of fraternities. Just use those open source. So, for example, we have the CRD. It's an A P I that allows you to feel your own customized, overnighted style FBI, so they're using some custom for couple databases. You could just create your own carbonated style FBI and call out your database or other stuffs, and then you can combine them into your own platform. And that's very powerful because everywhere. I can just use the same FBI, the Carbonari style idea to manage almost everything and that enables a Teo be able to, you know, on communities being adopted in different industry, such as I o t. A and Lord. >> So actually, this is perfect because the sleaze and so what I was going to say The secret of community is that we don't talk about actually job, Ada says. It's a lot, but it's a communities is a platform for creating platforms. So Kubernetes really is almost built on itself. You can extend Cooper. Netease like communities extends itself with the same semantics that it lets users extended. So Janet was talking about >> becoming the software that is eating the world. Yeah, it >> literally is. So Janet talked about the CRD sees custom resource definitions. It's the same. It's the same mechanism that Kubernetes uses to add new features. So whenever you're using these mechanisms, you're using Kou Burnett. He's basically the Cooper Nate's infrastructure to create. So really, what it is is that this is the tool kit for creating your solutions. What is why I say that Kubernetes is not an end point its its journey. >> So the cloud native system. >> So you know what? Yeah, and I like I like the limits analogy that people talk about. Like Coburn. Eighties is is like clinics. If you think about how Lennox you know little l. Lennox. Yeah. You know, I'm saying little l olynyk sub Let's put together. Yeah, you Burnett. He's like parts of communities would be system. And it's it's all these components come together the creature operating system, and that's the best part about it. >> Okay, so for me, the people that are not the seventy seven hundred that air here give them a little bit of, you know, walk around the show and some of the nooks and crannies that they might not know, like, you know, for myself having been to a number of these like Boy, there were so many half day and full day workshops yesterday there were, like, at least, like fifteen or seventeen or something like that that I saw, You know, obviously there's some of the big keynote. The Expo Hall is sprawling it, you know, I've been toe, you know, fifteen twenty thousand people show here This sex Bohol feels is bustling ahs that one is and well as tons of breakout session. So, you know, give us some of the things that people would have been missing if they didn't come to the show here. >> So just for the record, if you missed the show, you can still watch all the videos online. And then you can also watch the lifestream for keynotes so on. I personally love the applicant the different ways for a customizing covered at ease. So there's Ah, customizing overnight is track. And also there's the apple that applications track and I personally love that. And also I like the color case studies So you can't go to the case studies track to see on different users and users off Cooper, Natty shared. There were war stories, >> Yes, So I think that she will miss. There's a few things that you'll miss if you if you're not here in Barcelona right now, the first thing is that this convention center is huge. It's a ten minute walk from the door to where we're sitting right now, but more seriously, one. The things you'LL miss is that before the conference starts, there are there are a whole bunch of summits, Red had had a summit and fewer people had some. It's yesterday where they talk about things. There's the training sessions, which a lot of cases aren't recorded. And then another thing is that the special interest groups, the cigs. So Cooper ninety six, they all get together and they have faced the face discussions and then generally one from yesterday We're not. We're not recorded. So what you're missing is the people who actually make this big machine turn. They get together face to face and they first of all, they built from a rotary. But they get to discuss items that have require high bit of bandwith that you really can't do over again of issue or email, or even even a slack call like you can actually get this thing solved. And the best thing is watching these people. And then you watch the great ideas that in, you know, three, six months to a year become like, really big thing. So I bet yesterday, so something was discussed. Actually, I know of some things that we discussed yesterday that might fundamentally change how we deal with communities. So that's that is the value of being here and then the third thing is like when you come to a conference like this, where there's almost a thousand people, there's a lot of conversations that happened between, you know, the Expo Hall and the session rooms. And there's, um there's, you know, people are getting jobs here, People are finding new friends and people are learning. And before thing and I'll end with This is that I walk around looking for people who come in on the on the diversity scholarships, and I would not hear their stories if I did not come. So I met two people. I met a young lady from New Zealand who got the scholarship and flew here, you know, and super smart, but is in New Zealand and university, and I get to hear her insights with life. And then I get to share how you could be better in the same thing. I met a gentleman from Zimbabwe yesterday was going to school and take down, and what I hear is that there's so many smart people without opportunities, so if you're looking for opportunities, it's in these halls. There's a lot of people who have either money for you or they have re sources were really doesn't have a job or just you know what? Maybe there's someone you can call whenever you're stuck. So there is a lot of benefit to come into these. If you can get here, >> talent is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not. So I think the diversity scholarship program is one of the most inspirational things I saw mentioned out of a number of inspirational things that >> I know. It's It's my favorite part of communities. You know, I am super lucky that I haven't employees that our employer that can afford to send me here. Then I'm also super lucky that I probably couldn't afford to send myself here if I wanted to. And I do as much as I can to get people >> here. Well, Brian and Janet thank you so much for all you did to put this and sharing it with our community here. I'Ll repeat something that I said in Seattle. Actually, there was a lot of cloud shows out there. But if you're looking for you know, that independent cloud show that you know, lives in this multi hybrid cloud, whatever you wanna call it world you know this is one of the best out there. And the people? Absolutely. If you don't come with networking opportunities, we had into it on earlier, and they talked about how you know, this is the kind of place you come and you find a few people that you could hire to train the hundreds of people inside on all of the latest cloud native pieces. >> Can I say one thing, please? Brian S O, this is This is significant and it's significant for Janet and I. We are in the United States. We are, you know, Janet is a minority and I am a minority. This is the largest open source conference in the world. Siri's This is the largest open source conference in Europe. When we do, when we do, it ended a year. Whenever we do San Diego, it'Ll be the largest open source conference in the world. And look who's running it. You know, my new co chair is also a minority. This is amazing. And I love that. It shows that people who look like us we can come up here and do these things because like you said, opportunity is is, you know, opportunities the hard thing. Talent is everywhere. It's all over the place. And I'm glad we had a chance to do this. >> All right. Well, Brian, Janet, thank you so much for all of that. And Cory and I will be back with more coverage after this brief break. Thank you for watching the cues.