(upbeat music) >> Hello, welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here with Tim Everson, CISO at Kalahari Resorts & Conventions. Tim, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. Looking forward to it. >> So, you know, RSA is going on this week. We're talking a lot about security. You've got a lot of conferences. Security is a big scale now across all enterprises, all businesses. You're in the hospitality, you got conventions. You're in the middle of it. You have an interesting environment. You've got a lot of diverse use cases. And you've got a lot of needs. They're always changing. I mean, you talk about change. You've got a network that has to be responsive, robust and support a lot of tough customers who want to have fun or do business. >> Exactly, yeah. We have customers that come in, that we were talking about this before the segment. And we have customers that come in that bring their own Roku Sticks their own Amazon devices. All these different things they bring in. You know, our resort customers need dedicated bandwidth. So they need dedicated network segments stood up at a moment's notice to do the things they're doing and run the shows they're showing. So it's never, never ending. It's constantly changing in our business. And there's just data galore to keep an eye on. So it's really interesting. >> Can you scope the scale of the current cybersecurity challenges these days in the industry? Because they're wide and far, they're deep. You got zero trust on one end, which is essentially don't trust anything. And then you got now on the software supply chain, things like more trust. So you got the conflict between a direction that's more trusted and then zero trust, and everything in between. From, endpoint protection. It's a lot going on. What's the scale of this situation right now in cyber? >> You know, right now everything's very, very up in the air. You talk about zero trust. And zero trust can be defined a lot of ways depending on what security person you talk to today. So, I won't go into my long discussion about zero trust but suffice to say, like I said zero trust can be perceived so many different ways. From a user perspective, from a network perspective, from an end point. I look more broadly at the regulatory side of things and how that affects things too. Because, regulations are changing daily. You've got your GDPRs, your CCPAs, your HIPAA regulations, PCI. All these different things that affect businesses, and affect businesses different ways. I mean, at Kalahari we're vulnerable or we're not vulnerable, but we're subject to a lot of these different regulations, more so than other people. You wouldn't expect a lot of hotels to have HIPAA regulations for instance. We have health people at our resorts. So we actually are subject to HIPAA in a lot of cases. So there's a lot of these broad scenarios that apply and they come into play with all different industries. And again, things you don't expect. So, when you see these threats coming, when you see all the hacks coming. Even today I got an email that the Marriott breach data from a few years ago, or the MGM breach from a few years ago. We've got all these breaches out there in the world, are coming back to the surface and being looked at again. And our users and our guests and our corporate partners, and all these different people see those things and they rely on us to protect them. So it makes that scope just exponentially bigger. >> Yeah, there's so many threads to pull on here. One is, you know we've observed certainly with the pandemic and then now going forward is that if you weren't modern in your infrastructure, in your environment, you are exposed. Even, I'm not talking old and antiquated like in the dark ages IT. We're talking like really state of the art, current. If you're lagging just by a few years, the hackers have an advantage. So, the constant bar raising, leveling up on technology is part of this arms race against the bad guys. >> Absolutely. And you said it, you talked earlier about the supply chain. Supply chain, these attacks that have come through the SolarWinds attacks and some of these other supply chain attacks that are coming out right now. Everybody's doing their best to stay on top of the latest, greatest. And the problem with that is, when you rely on other vendors and other companies to be able to help you do that. And you're relying on all these different tool sets, the supply chain attack is hugely critical. It makes it really, really important that you're watching where you're getting your software from, what they're doing with it, how they secure it. And that when you're dealing with your vendors and your different suppliers, you're making sure that they're securing things as well as you are. And it just, it adds to the complexity, it adds to the footprint and it adds to the headache that a lot of these security teams have. Especially small teams where they don't have the people to manage those kind of contacts. >> It's so interesting, I think zero trust is a knee jerk reaction to the perimeter being gone. It's like, you got to People love the zero trust. Oh it's like, "We're going to protect this that nobody, and then vet them in." But once you're trusted, trust also is coming in to play here. And in your environment, you're a hotel, you're a convention. You have a lot of rotation of guests coming in. Very much high velocity. And spear phishing and phishing, I could be watching and socially engineering someone that could be on your property at any given time. You got to be prepared for that. Or, you got ransomware coming around the corners or heavily. So, you got the ransomware threat and you got potentially spear phishing that could be possible at your place. These are things that are going on, right? That you got to protect for. What's your reaction to that? >> Absolutely. We see all those kind of attacks on a daily basis. I see spear phishing attacks. I see, web links and I chase them down and see what's going on. I see that there's ransomware trying to come in. We see these things every single day. And the problem you have with it is not only, especially in a space where you have a high volume of customers and a high turnover of customers like you're talking about that are in and out of our resorts, in and out of our facilities. Those attacks aren't just coming from our executives and their email. We can have a guest sitting on a guest network, on a wireless network. Or on one of our business center machines, or using our resort network for any one of a number of the conference things that they're doing and the different ports that we have to open and the different bandwidth scenarios that you've got dealing with. All of these things come into play because if any attack comes from any of those channels you have to make sure that segmentation is right, that your tooling is proper and that your team is aware and watching for it. And so it does. It makes it a very challenging environment to be in. >> You know, I don't want to bring up the budget issue but I'll bring up the budget issue. You can have unlimited budget because there's so many tools out there and platforms now. I mean, if you've look at the ecosystem map of the cybersecurity landscape that you have to navigate through as a customer. You've got a lot of people knocking on your door to sell you stuff. So I have to ask you, what is the scale? I mean, you can't have unlimited budget. But the reality is you have to kind of, do the right thing. What's the most helpful kind of tools and platforms for you that you've seen that you've had experience with? Where's this going in terms of the most effective mechanisms and software and platforms that are available out there? >> From the security perspective specifically, the three things that are most important to me are visibility. Whether it's asset visibility or log visibility. You know, being able to see the data, being able to see what's going on. End user. Making sure that the end user has been trained, is aware and that you're watching them. Because the end user, the human is always the weakest link. The human doesn't have digital controls that can be hard set and absolutely followed. The human changes every day. And then our endpoint security solutions. Those are the three biggest things for me. You know, you have your network perimeter, your firewalls. But attackers aren't always looking for those. They're coming from the inside, they're finding a way around those. The biggest three things for me are endpoint, visibility and the end user. >> Yeah, it's awesome. And a lot of companies are really looking at their posture right now. So I would ask you as a CISO, who's in the front end of all this great stuff and protecting your networks and all your environments and the endpoints and assets. What advice would you have for other CISOs who are kind of trying to level up to where you're at, in terms of rethinking their security posture? What advice would you give them? >> The advice I would give you is surround yourself with people that are like-minded on the security side. Make sure that these people are aware but that they're willing to grow. Because security's always changing. If you get a security person that's dead set that they're going to be a network security person and that's all they're going to do. You know, you may have that need and you may fill it. But at the end of the day, you need somebody who's open rounded and ready to change. And then you need to make sure that you can have somebody, and the team that you work with is able to talk to your executives. It never fails, the executives. They understand security from the standpoint of the business, but they don't necessarily understand security from the technical side. So you have to make sure that you can cross those two boundaries. And when you grow your team you have to make sure that that's the biggest focus. >> I have to ask the pandemic question, but I know cybersecurity hasn't changed. In fact, it's gotten more aggressive in the pandemic. How has the post pandemic or kind of like towards the tail end of where we're at now, affect the cybersecurity landscape? Has it increased velocity? Has it changed any kind of threat vectors? Has it changed in any way? Can you share your thoughts on what happened during the pandemic and now has we come out of it into the next, well post pandemic? >> Absolutely. It affected hospitality in a kind of unique way. Because, a lot of the different governments, state, federal. I'm in Ohio. I work out of our Ohio resort. A lot of the governments literally shut us down or limited severely how many guests we could have in. So on the one hand you've got less traffic internal over the network. So you've got a little bit of a slow down there. But on the flip side it also meant a lot of our workers were working from home. So now you've got a lot of remote access coming in. You've got people that are trying to get in from home and work machines. You have to transition call centers and call volume and all of the things that come along with that. And you have to make sure that that human element is accounted for. Because, again, you've got people working from home, you no longer know if the person that's calling you today, if it's not somebody you're familiar with you don't know if that person is Joe Blow from the front desk or if that person's a vendor or who they are. And so when you deal with a company with 5,000 ish employees or 10,000 that some of these bigger companies are. 15,000, whatever the case may be. You know, the pandemic really put a shift in there because now you're protecting not only against the technologies, but you're dealing with all of the scams, all of the phishing attempts that are coming through that are COVID related. All of these various things. And it really did. It threw a crazy mix into cybersecurity. >> I can imagine that the brain trust over there is prior thinking, "Hey, we were a hybrid experience." Now, if people who have come and experienced our resorts and conventions can come in remotely, even in a hybrid experience with folks that are there. You've seen a lot of hybrid events for instance go on, where there's shared experience. I can almost imagine your service area is now extending to the homes of those guests. That you got to start thinking differently. Has that been something that you guys are looking at? >> We're looking at it from the standpoint of trying to broaden some of the events. In the case of a lot of our conventions, things of that nature. The conventions that aren't actually Kalahari's run conventions, we host them, we manage them. But it does... When you talk about workers coming from home to attend these conventions. Or these telecommuters that are attending these conventions. It does affect us in the stance that, like I said we have to provision network for these various events. And we have to make sure that the network and the security around the network are tight. So it does. It makes a big deal as far as how Kalahari does its business. Being able to still operate these different meetings and different conventions, and being able to host remotely as well. You know, making sure that telecommunications are available to them. Making sure that network access and room access are available to them. You know for places where we can't gather heavily in meetings. You know, these people still being able to be near each other, still being able to talk, but making sure that that technology is there between them. >> Well, Tim is great to have you on for this CUBE Conversation. CISO from the middle of all the action. You're seeing a lot. There's a lot of surface area you got to watch. There's a lot of data you got to observe. You got to get that visibility. You can only protect what you can see, and the more you see the better it is. The better the machine learning. You brought up the the common area about like-minded individuals. I want to just ask you on the final point here, on hiring and talent coming into the marketplace. I mean, this younger generation coming out of university and college is, or not even going to school. There's no cyber degree. I mean, there are now. But I mean, the world's changing. It's easy to level up. So, skill sets you can't get a degree in certain things. I mean, you got to have a broad set. What do you look for in talent? Is there a trend you see in terms of what makes a good cybersecurity professional, developer, analyst? Is there roles that you see emerging that you think people should pay attention to? What's your take on this as someone who's looking at the future? And- >> You know, it's very interesting that you bring this up. I actually have two of my team members, one directly working for me and another team member at Kalahari that are currently going through college degree programs for cybersecurity. And I wrote recommendations for them. I've worked with them, I'm helping them study. But as you bring people up, you know the other thing I do is I mentor at a couple of the local technical schools as well. I go in, I talk to people, I help them design their programs. And the biggest thing I try to get across to them is, number one, if you're in the learning side of it. Not even talking about the hiring side of it. If you're in the learning side of it, you need to come into it with a kind of an understanding to begin with to where you want to fit into security. You know, do you want to be an attacker, a defender, a manager? Where do you want to be? And then you also need to look at the market and talk to the businesses in the area. You know, I talk to these kids regularly about what their need is. Because if you're in school and you're taking Cisco classes, and focusing on firewalls and what an organization needs as somebody who can read log and do things like that. Or somebody who can do pen testing. You know, that's a huge thing. So I would say if you're on the hiring side of that equation, you know. Like you said, there's no super degrees that I can speak to. There's a lot of certifications. There's a lot of different things like that. The goal for me is finding somebody who can put hands to the ground and feet to the ground, and show me that they know what they know. You know, I'll pull somebody in, I'll ask them to show me a certain specific or I'll ask them for specific information and try to feel that out. Because at the end of the day, there's no degree that's going to protect my network. There's no degree that's a hundred percent going to understand Kalahari, for instance. So I want to make sure that the people I talk to, I get a broad interview scope, I get a number of people to talk to. And really get a feel for what it is they know, and what tools they want to work with and make sure it's going to align with us. >> Well, Tim, that's great that you do that. I think the industry needs that. And I think that's really paying it forward, by getting in and using your time to help shape the young curriculums and the young guns out there. It's interesting you know, like David Vellante and I talk on theCUBE all the time. Cyber is like sports. If you're playing football, you got to know the game. If you're playing football and you come in as a baseball player, the skills might not translate, right? So it's really more of, categorically cyber has a certain pattern to it. Math, open mindedness, connecting dots, seeing things around corners. Maybe it's more holistic views, if you're at the visibility level or getting the weeds with data. A lot of different skill sets needed. The aperture of the job requirements are changing a lot. >> They are. And you know, you touched on that really well. You know, they talk about hacking and the hacker mindset. You know, all the security stuff revolves around hacker. And people mislabel hacker. Hacking in general is making something do something that it wasn't originally designed to do. And when I hire people in security, I want people that have that mindset. I want people that not only are going to work with the tool set we have, and use that mathematical ability and that logic and that reasoning. But I want them to use a reasoning of, "Hey, we have this tool here today. How can this tool do what I want it do but what else can it do for me?" Because like any other industry we have to stretch our dollar. So if I have a tool set that can meet five different needs for me today, rather than investing in 16 different tool sets and spreading that data out and spreading all the control around. Let's focus on those tool sets and let's focus on using that knowledge and that adaptive ability that the human people have on the security side, and put that to use. Make them use the tools that work for them but make 'em develop things, new tools, new methods, new techniques that help us get things across. >> Grow the capabilities, protect, trust all things coming in. And Tim, you're a tech athlete, as we say and you've got a great thing going on over there. And again, congratulations on the work you're doing on the higher ed and the education side and the Kalahari Resorts & Conventions. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. I really appreciate the insight you're sharing. Thank you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Okay. I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto for theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (somber music)

(upbeat music) >> Despite its 70 to $80 billion total available market, computer storage is like a small town, everybody knows everybody else. We say in the storage world, there are a hundred people, and 99 seats. Infinidat is a company that was founded in 2011 by storage legend, Moshe Yanai. The company is known for building products with rock solid availability, simplicity, and a passion for white glove service, and client satisfaction. Company went through a leadership change recently, in early this year, appointed industry vet, Phil Bullinger, as CEO. It's making more moves, bringing on longtime storage sales exec, Richard Bradbury, to run EMEA, and APJ Go-To-Market. And just recently appointed marketing maven, Eric Hertzog to be CMO. Hertzog has worked at numerous companies, ranging from startups that were acquired, two stints at IBM, and is SVP of product marketing and management at Storage Powerhouse, EMC, among others. Hertzog has been named CMO of the year as an OnCon Icon, and top 100 influencer in big data, AI, and also hybrid cloud, along with yours truly, if I may say so. Joining me today, is the newly minted CMO of Infinidat, Mr.Eric Hertzog. Good to see you, Eric, thanks for coming on. >> Dave, thank you very much. You know, we love being on theCUBE, and I am of course sporting my Infinidat logo wear already, even though I've only been on the job for two weeks. >> Dude, no Hawaiian shirt, okay. That's a pretty buttoned up company. >> Well, next time, I'll have a Hawaiian shirt, don't worry. >> Okay, so give us the backstory, how did this all come about? you know Phil, my 99 seat joke, but, how did it come about? Tell us that story. >> So, I have known Phil since the late 90s, when he was a VP at LSA of Engineering, and he had... I was working at a company called Milax, which was acquired by IBM. And we were doing a product for HP, and he was providing the subsystem, and we were providing the fiber to fiber, and fiber to SCSI array controllers back in the day. So I met him then, we kept in touch for years. And then when I was a senior VP at EMC, he started originally as VP of engineering for the EMC Isilon team. And then he became the general manager. So, while I didn't work for him, I worked with him, A, at LSA, and then again at EMC. So I just happened to congratulate him about some award he won, and he said "Hey Herzog, "we should talk, I have a CMO opening". So literally happened over LinkedIn discussion, where I reached out to him, and congratulate him, he said "Hey, I need a CMO, let's talk". So, the whole thing took about three weeks in all honesty. And that included interviewing with other members of his exec staff. >> That's awesome, that's right, he was running the Isilon division for awhile at the EMC. >> Right. >> You guys were there, and of course, you talk about Milax, LSA, there was a period of time where, you guys were making subsystems for everybody. So, you sort of saw the whole landscape. So, you got some serious storage history and chops. So, I want to ask you what attracted you to Infinidat. I mean, obviously they're a leader in the magic quadrant. We know about InfiniBox, and the petabyte scale, and the low latency, what are the... When you look at the market, you obviously you see it, you talk to everybody. What were the trends that were driving your decision to join Infinidat? >> Well, a couple of things. First of all, as you know, and you guys have talked about it on theCUBE, most CIOs don't know anything about storage, other than they know a guy got to spend money on it. So the Infinidat message of optimizing applications, workloads, and use cases with 100% guaranteed availability, unmatched reliability, the set and forget ease of use, which obviously AIOps is driving that, and overall IT operations management was very attractive. And then on top of that, the reality is, when you do that consolidation, which Infinidat can do, because of the performance that it has, you can dramatically free up rack, stack, power, floor, and operational manpower by literally getting rid of, tons and tons of arrays. There's one customer that they have, you actually... I found out when I got here, they took out a hundred arrays from EMC Hitachi. And that company now has 20 InfiniBoxes, and InfiniBox SSAs running the exact same workloads that used to be, well over a hundred subsystems from the other players. So, that's got a performance angle, a CapEx and OPEX angle, and then even a clean energy angle because reducing Watson slots. So, lots of different advantages there. And then I think from just a pure marketing perspective, as someone has said, they're the best kept secret to the storage industry. And so you need to, if you will, amp up the message, get it out. They've expanded the portfolio with the InfiniBox SSA, the InfiniGuard product, which is really optimized, not only as the PBA for backup perspective, and it works with all the backup vendors, but also, has an incredible play on data and cyber resilience with their capability of local logical air gapping, remote logical air gapping, and creating a clean room, if you will, a vault, so that you can then recover their review for malware ransomware before you do a full recovery. So it's got the right solutions, just that most people didn't know who they were. So, between the relationship with Phil, and the real opportunity that this company could skyrocket. In fact, we have 35 job openings right now, right now. >> Wow, okay, so yeah, I think it was Duplessy called them the best kept secret, he's not the only one. And so that brings us to you, and your mission because it's true, it is the best kept secret. You're a leader in the Gartner magic quadrant, but I mean, if you're not a leader in a Gartner magic quadrant, you're kind of nobody in storage. And so, but you got chops and block storage. You talked about the consolidation story, and I've talked to many folks in Infinidat about that. Ken Steinhardt rest his soul, Dr. Rico, good business friend, about, you know... So, that play and how you handle the whole blast radius. And that's always a great discussion, and Infinidat has proven that it can operate at very very high performance, low latency, petabyte scale. So how do you get the word out? What's your mission? >> Well, so we're going to do a couple of things. We're going to be very, very tied to the channel as you know, EMC, Dell EMC, and these are articles that have been in CRN, and other channel publications is pulling back from the channel, letting go of channel managers, and there's been a lot of conflict. So, we're going to embrace the channel. We already do well over 90% of our business within general globally. So, we're doing that. In fact, I am meeting, personally, next week with five different CEOs of channel partners. Of which, only one of them is doing business with Infinidat now. So, we want to expand our channel, and leverage the channel, take advantage of these changes in the channel. We are going to be increasing our presence in the public relations area. The work we do with all the industry analysts, not just in North America, but in Europe as well, and Asia. We're going to amp up, of course, our social media effort, both of us, of course, having been named some of the best social media guys in the world the last couple of years. So, we're going to open that up. And then, obviously, increase our demand generation activities as well. So, we're going to make sure that we leverage what we do, and deliver that message to the world. Deliver it to the partner base, so the partners can take advantage, and make good margin and revenue, but delivering products that really meet the needs of the customers while saving them dramatically on CapEx and OPEX. So, the partner wins, and the end user wins. And that's the best scenario you can do when you're leveraging the channel to help you grow your business. >> So you're not only just the marketing guy, I mean, you know product, you ran product management at very senior levels. So, you could... You're like a walking spec sheet, John Farrier says you could just rattle it off. Already impressed that how much you know about Infinidat, but when you joined EMC, it was almost like, there was too many products, right? When you joined IBM, even though it had a big portfolio, it's like it didn't have enough relevant products. And you had to sort of deal with that. How do you feel about the product portfolio at Infinidat? >> Well, for us, it's right in the perfect niche. Enterprise class, AI based software defined storage technologies that happens run on a hybrid array, an all flash array, has a variant that's really tuned towards modern data protection, including data and cyber resilience. So, with those three elements of the portfolio, which by the way, all have a common architecture. So while there are three different solutions, all common architecture. So if you know how to use the InfiniBox, you can easily use an InfiniGuard. You got an InfiniGuard, you can easily use an InfiniBox SSA. So the capability of doing that, helps reduce operational manpower and hence, of course, OPEX. So the story is strong technically, the story has a strong business tie in. So part of the thing you have to do in marketing these days. Yeah, we both been around. So you could just talk about IOPS, and latency, and bandwidth. And if the people didn't... If the CIO didn't know what that meant, so what? But the world has changed on the expenditure of infrastructure. If you don't have seamless integration with hybrid cloud, virtual environments and containers, which Infinidat can do all that, then you're not relevant from a CIO perspective. And obviously with many workloads moving to the cloud, you've got to have this infrastructure that supports core edge and cloud, the virtualization layer, and of course, the container layer across a hybrid environment. And we can do that with all three of these solutions. Yet, with a common underlying software defined storage architecture. So it makes the technical story very powerful. Then you turn that into business benefit, CapEX, OPEX, the operational manpower, unmatched availability, which is obviously a big deal these days, unmatched performance, everybody wants their SAP workload or their Oracle or Mongo Cassandra to be, instantaneous from the app perspective. Excuse me. And we can do that. And that's the kind of thing that... My job is to translate that from that technical value into the business value, that can be appreciated by the CIO, by the CSO, by the VP of software development, who then says to VP of industry, that Infinidat stuff, we actually need that for our SAP workload, or wow, for our overall corporate cybersecurity strategy, the CSO says, the key element of the storage part of that overall corporate cybersecurity strategy are those Infinidat guys with their great cyber and data resilience. And that's the kind of thing that my job, and my team's job to work on to get the market to understand and appreciate that business value that the underlying technology delivers. >> So the other thing, the interesting thing about Infinidat. This was always a source of spirited discussions over the years with business friends from Infinidat was the company figured out a way, it was formed in 2011, and at the time the strategy perfectly reasonable to say, okay, let's build a better box. And the way they approached that from a cost standpoint was you were able to get the most out of spinning disk. Everybody else was moving to flash, of course, floyers work a big flash, all flash data center, etc, etc. But Infinidat with its memory cache and its architecture, and its algorithms was able to figure out how to magically get equivalent or better performance in an all flash array out of a system that had a lot of spinning disks, which is I think unique. I mean, I know it's unique, very rare anyway. And so that was kind of interesting, but at the time it made sense, to go after a big market with a better mouse trap. Now, if I were starting a company today, I might take a different approach, I might try to build, a storage cloud or something like that. Or if I had a huge install base that I was trying to protect, and maybe go into that. But so what's the strategy? You still got huge share gain potentials for on-prem is that the vector? You mentioned hybrid cloud, what's the cloud strategy? Maybe you could summarize your thoughts on that? >> Sure, so the cloud strategy, is first of all, seamless integration to hybrid cloud environments. For example, we support Outpost as an example. Second thing, you'd be surprised at the number of cloud providers that actually use us as their backend, either for their primary storage, or for their secondary storage. So, we've got some of the largest hyperscalers in the world. For example, one of the Telcos has 150 Infiniboxes, InfiniBox SSAS and InfiniGuards. 150 running one of the largest Telcos on the planet. And a huge percentage of that is their corporate cloud effort where they're going in and saying, don't use Amazon or Azure, why don't you use us the giant Telco? So we've got that angle. We've got a ton of mid-sized cloud providers all over the world that their backup is our servers, or their primary storage that they offer is built on top of Infiniboxes or InfiniBox SSA. So, the cloud strategy is one to arm the hyperscalers, both big, medium, and small with what they need to provide the right end user services with the right outside SLAs. And the second thing is to have that hybrid cloud integration capability. For example, when I talked about InfiniGuard, we can do air gapping locally to give almost instantaneous recovery, but at the same time, if there's an earthquake in California or a tornado in Kansas City, or a tsunami in Singapore, you've got to have that remote air gapping capability, which InfiniGuard can do. Which of course, is essentially that logical air gap remote is basically a cloud strategy. So, we can do all of that. That's why it has a cloud strategy play. And again we have a number of public references in the cloud, US signal and others, where they talk about why they use the InfiniBox, and our technologies to offer their storage cloud services based on our platform. >> Okay, so I got to ask you, so you've mentioned earthquakes, a lot of earthquakes in California, dangerous place to live, US headquarters is in Waltham, we're going to pry you out of the Golden State? >> Let's see, I was born at Stanford hospital where my parents met when they were going there. I've never lived anywhere, but here. And of course, remember when I was working for EMC, I flew out every week, and I sort of lived at that Milford Courtyard Marriott. So I'll be out a lot, but I will not be moving, I'm a Silicon Valley guy, just like that old book, the Silicon Valley Guy from the old days, that's me. >> Yeah, the hotels in Waltham are a little better, but... So, what's your priority? Last question. What's the priority first 100 days? Where's your focus? >> Number one priority is team assessment and integration of the team across the other teams. One of the things I noticed about Infinidat, which is a little unusual, is there sometimes are silos and having done seven other small companies and startups, in a startup or a small company, you usually don't see that silo-ness, So we have to break down those walls. And by the way, we've been incredibly successful, even with the silos, imagine if everybody realized that business is a team sport. And so, we're going to do that, and do heavy levels of integration. We've already started to do an incredible outreach program to the press and to partners. We won a couple awards recently, we're up for two more awards in Europe, the SDC Awards, and one of the channel publications is going to give us an award next week. So yeah, we're amping up that sort of thing that we can leverage and extend. Both in the short term, but also, of course, across a longer term strategy. So, those are the things we're going to do first, and yeah, we're going to be rolling into, of course, 2022. So we've got a lot of work we're doing, as I mentioned, I'm meeting, five partners, CEOs, and only one of them is doing business with us now. So we want to get those partners to kick off January with us presenting at their sales kickoff, going "We are going with Infinidat "as one of our strong storage providers". So, we're doing all that upfront work in the first 100 days, so we can kick off Q1 with a real bang. >> Love the channel story, and you're a good guy to do that. And you mentioned the silos, correct me if I'm wrong, but Infinidat does a lot of business in overseas. A lot of business in Europe, obviously the affinity to the engineering, a lot of the engineering work that's going on in Israel, but that's by its very nature, stovepipe. Most startups start in the US, big market NFL cities, and then sort of go overseas. It's almost like Infinidat sort of simultaneously grew it's overseas business, and it's US business. >> Well, and we've got customers everywhere. We've got them in South Africa, all over Europe, Middle East. We have six very large customers in India, and a number of large customers in Japan. So we have a sales team all over the world. As you mentioned, our white glove service includes not only our field systems engineers, but we have a professional services group. We've actually written custom software for several customers. In fact, I was on the forecast meeting earlier today, and one of the comments that was made for someone who's going to give us a PO. So, the sales guy was saying, part of the reason we're getting the PO is we did some professional services work last quarter, and the CIO called and said, I can't believe it. And what CIO calls up a storage company these days, but the CIO called him and said "I can't believe the work you did. We're going to buy some more stuff this quarter". So that white glove service, our technical account managers to go along with the field sales SEs and this professional service is pretty unusual in a small company to have that level of, as you mentioned yourself, white glove service, when the company is so small. And that's been a real hidden gem for this company, and will continue to be so. >> Well, Eric, congratulations on the appointment, the new role, excited to see what you do, and how you craft the story, the strategy. And we've been following Infinidat since, sort of day zero and I really wish you the best. >> Great, well, thank you very much. Always appreciate theCUBE. And trust me, Dave, next time I will have my famous Hawaiian shirt. >> Ah, I can't wait. All right, thanks to Eric, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, and we'll see you next time. (bright upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel AWS and our community partners. Welcome to the cubes Coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. The digital version I'm Lisa Martin and I'm joined by a couple of guests from Unisys. Please welcome unprompted high BP and Cloud CTO on income. Great to have you on the program. Thanks for joining me today. >>Great to be here leader >>and a new pre or a new Ram Raj, VP of Cloud Services. A new welcome. Great to have you on a swell. Great >>to be here in this virtual AWS being that great. >>Thank you. Very socially Distance We're following all the guidelines here. A new Let's start with you. I'd love to get just kind of Ah, you know, a vision of the AWS Unisys partnership. I know you guys are advanced consulting partner MSP. Tell me about that partnership. >>Absolutely. Lisa, we see our clients on a cloud journey which we accelerate with Unisys Cloud Services and AWS partnership is a big piece of that again. Way thorough. We have bean rated in aws MSP partner Come out very, very highly from those msb audited our, uh and we're investing in multiple competencies across the boat as well. So and we work very closely with AWS in terms off innovating in sharing our platform cloud 44 world map In looking at what our customers looking around the corner, what services could be co developed. So we're looking at some potential I o T engagements to jointly with AWS is, well, eso you're always co inventing and it's a great partnership with a W s >>excellent. And you let's stick with you Following on hybrid Cloud Journey you mentioned the Cloud Forte platform. I wanted to understand what that platform is, how your co developing that with AWS and how your customers are benefiting >>absolutely s. Um, every year Unisys does a cloud barometer study across thousands of our clients and and we got some interesting takeaways from that. Essentially two thirds of her clients that have started this cloud journey believe they don't really realize the benefits out of that and up thio 53% off. The the respondents said they needed some help with cloud security. And this is where I believe that Unisys Cloud Services has a strong viewpoint and can find their AWS, um, journey, no matter where, what challenges they're facing, whether it's budgetary challenges on optimizing AWS and whether it's getting I t operations right when you move your applications to AWS. Um, and is it is it getting the that I have seen cops models established? So no matter where clients are in the A journey, we look to accelerate with our set of solutions and services, and we're very proud about the fact that we respond very me to make sure our clients can innovate and achieve the business outcomes that they need. For example, with California Stink City, we were able to work with them on the AWS. John Pretty set up a native other lake and analytics on top of it so we could actually predict and influence graduation rates with students. Our scores are higher than any off are coming because of the outcomes that we deliver for our clients. And it's really about business outcomes and 40 platform, which helps us drive those outcomes. I mean, probably do you want to add on without cloud 40 platform? >>Sure, I know eso, as as I knew was saying cloud for the platform provides AH set off capabilities that allows us to create an offer highly differentiated services with Unisys Pipe and, as was mentioned earlier, our cloud solutions are are able to help customers no matter where they are in their car, in their cloud journeys, whether it's ah Greenfield opportunity, where they where the customers are intending to move to the cloud, or if it's a brownfield opportunity where they already have adopted the cloud and are looking to manage and operate and optimize their deployments. Cloud Forte Platform and our Cloud Solutions are able to provide, uh, customized solution for that customer context to really deliver the solution that addresses some of the pain points that you talked about. The keeping points really relate to security to get secured. It also relates to cost optimization and then optimizing the cloud purse, a cloud deployment hybrid cloud deployment of the key requirement. So our cloud 40 platform health drives the key use cases. The key pain points that our customers are looking for through a combination off accelerators, the number of cloud photo accelerators that enable customers to rapidly prove it provisioned customers and to rapidly migrate to the cloud with God rails so that they're the secure, their compliant. And then we've got the the Cloud Cloud 40 Cloud management platform for ensuring provisioning onda management and operations, along with cost optimization capabilities and the eyelid operations. So it's a comprehensive suite off services and solutions that addresses the key business outcomes. There are customers are are looking for >>outcomes. Focused is absolutely critical, especially these days. I knew I wanted to go back to you for a second. You talked about the Unisys Barometer study, and I like the name of that. When was that done? And I'm just wondering if there are certain things that you saw this year from a customer. Cloud journey. Need perspective because of the pandemic that have really influenced that barometer >>Wait Question. Hey said and development is study. The last version of it was done late last year, and we're still waiting on the ones from this year. So, but we're starting to see some of the trends that were influenced by the pandemic. We saw rush to cloud when the pandemic hit because business adopt to to remote workers to do more digital selling and then seeing our CEO is kind of struggle with optimizing and maximizing the results off their cloud. Spend right, So So that's a unique challenge that that we're seeing based on our tryingto interaction. So the rush to the cloud and the ask for more spend optimization and in terms of spend optimization, that's an interesting facet because, uh, it cuts through my multiple angles. It's it's cuts through having the platforms around, being able to dio right predictions on where you spend is going, and then it also it's across collaborative effort. Finn ops. As we see it, we call it as a synopsis of is that we bring to our clients it's passing with multiple organizations, including finance, to sometimes figure out. Where will this business be? Where should you spend be? What should be the reserved instance buys right. So combining cloud knowledge with financial knowledge and organizational and business knowledge. And that's the service that we bring to our clients with our phenoms services. At least a great question about how how is I kind of making the current business climate affecting our operating models? Um, like we said, there's increased ask for Finn ops is an increase. Ask for security ops because security threats have only amplified. And then the entire cloud ups model. I think hybrid cloud operations its's prompted us to rethink a lot off. How do we do? I t operations and and we're investing a lot in terms of automation and then underpinning that by ai led operation. So, um, you talked about the client management platform making sure we've got the best automation and processes which are repeatable around all the way from just doing provisioning to data operations to optimization. Just making all of that robust and repeatable um, is such a value. Add to clients because then they can see SOS can sleep at night knowing that everything is taken care off and, uh, the CIA, the CEOs can be rest assured that hey, they're not going to get that AWS bill that's going to make them hit the roof. So making sure we've got the right checks and balances and approval flow is all a part of our child management platform. And at that point, I know you really passionate AI and the role that it plays in operations and the entire cloud management platform and cloud for day platform So your thoughts in the poem? >>Yes, sir. No, thank you. But so yeah, yeah, I led operations is really part off the bigger question and the pain point that customers are faced with, which is I've reached the cloud. Now, how do I optimized and get benefits from the cloud on the benefits is around. You know, uh, utility for on demand access to resource is, uh, this cost optimization potential and the security, uh, cloud security potential that, if not managed properly, can really blow up in the face. And unfortunately, you know that in the case on the AI ops led Operation Side, that's again a huge foretell area where Unisys Investor is investing a lot off a lot off i p and creating a lot of differentiation. And the objective there is to ask Customers adopt cloud for day as they adopt Unisys Cloud services. They're able to take advantage off cost optimization capabilities, which essentially looks at historical usage on predicts future usage, based on a number off a I artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies that that is able to give you predictions that otherwise very hard to hard to get and, uh, in the cloud environment because of the sheer velocity volume and variety of the data. Doing that in a manual fashion is very, very hard. So automated machine learning driven approach is very productive is very effective on, you know, some of the outcomes that we've achieved is is just amazing. We've been able to save up to 25% off infrastructure costs through the island operations. About 40% off infrastructure incidents have bean reduced due to root cause analysis. Eso onda up to 35% off meantime, to resolution improvements in time. So huge customer benefits driven by e I led operations. The I am a approaches to following the problem. >>Let me see him If I could stick with you for a second big numbers that you just talked about and we talked a few minutes ago about outcomes. It's all about outcomes right now with this rush to cloud as as a new set. And we talked about this on the Cuba all the time. We've seen that the last eight months there is an acceleration of this digital transformation. I'm just curious una come from your perspective as the VP and CTO cloud how are you? What are some of the things that you advise customers to do if they need to rush to the cloud 21 just, you know, move their business quickly and not have the stay on life support. What are some of the things that you advise them to do when they're in this? Maybe a few months ago, when they were in the beginning of this? >>Yeah, that's that's a very interesting question, and lot off our clients are faced with that question as they either they're already in the cloud or the deciding to migrate to the cloud on the whole journey. Customer journeys for either stepping on the cloud or managing and operating the optimizing the cloud deployments is very key. So if you look at the market research that's out there and what we hear from our customers, the key challenges are really, really around. How do I migrate to the cloud without facing a lot of bottlenecks and challenges, and how do I overcome them? So that's the keeping pain point and again cloud for the advisory services and the cloud services that we offer allows customers to take up uh, toe work with us, and we work with the customer to ensure that they're able to do that on and then rapidly migrating to the cloud, managing and operating their operations. The hybrid cloud operations in optimized fashion is a huge challenge. How do they migrate? How do they migrate with security and compliance not being compromised once they're in the cloud, ensuring cloud security is and compliance is is maintained. Ensuring that the cost structure is is optimized so that they're not being mawr wants to move to the cloud compared to on premises and and then taking advantage of the whole cloud. Deployments to ensure you're looking at data are nothing the data to derive meaningful business outcomes. So if the entire end to end customer journey that needs to be looked at optimized. And that's where Unisys comes in with a cloud for the platform where we work with the customers to enhance the journeys. And in this case I want to mention CSU, which is, uh, the California State University, where the approach Unisys to really work with them to deliver uh, cloud services by enhancing the the objective was to enhance the student learning experience to enable adoption off off the technology by the students but also to achieve better performance, better adoption cost savings on we were able to deliver about 30% better performance help realize about 30 33% savings on 40% plus growth in adoption. On this was for about half a million student bodies. The 50,000 plus faculty staff spread across 23 campuses. So deploying, optimizing on and managing the infrastructure is something that Unisys does. Does that. And this is an example of that. I know you want to add anything to that. >>Absolutely Any Permanente's really well and, >>uh, >>it Z also securing, making sure securities with the >>journey >>it Z O Keefe or hybrid cloud. Um, uh, at least I'm sure you're aware of the Unisys tagline is securing tomorrow. So who better s so we really, really take that really, really seriously in terms of making sure we seek clients cloud journeys, and >>you >>probably heard the statistic from her. About 80% off cloud breaches are due to mis configuration, and this could have bean prevented. And and it doesn't. There's an element of the human angle in there. You believe strongly that can automate using our platform. So we've got 2000 plus security policies, which makes sure which again enables our clients to be compliant as well. So no matter what compliant standards, we've got several off our clients, for example, in the financial sector that are hosted on AWS and that we managed and they have to, especially the US They have to comply with Y de f s, the New York Department of Financial Services and making sure that they compliant with all the standards out there, which is next plus plus in this case. So that's part of what we do and enabling those journeys and then just keeping up with the rate of change like on different was talking about the variety and velocity of the data and and the rate of change of the applications out there, especially as businesses react to the pandemic and have to cope with the changing business paradigms out there. They have to be quick. Um, so we've got a drugmaker, one of the most premium drug makers in the US, who is who is against it on AWS, and, uh, they're racing for the cure and they are always looking at How do they get drugs quicker to the market? And that means accelerating applications. And we know that based on research by the Dora study, that if you adopt develops paradigms, you can accelerate 200 times faster than if you didn't. But then you have to underpin backward security as well. So really helping this adopt deaths are cops in all their deployments to AWS so that they can really race for the cure. That's the kind of business outcomes that we really, uh, are really, really proud to drive for our clients. >>Excellent on a pound. Let's wrap this up with you. We've just got about 30 seconds left sticking on the security front. It's such a huge topic right now. It has been for a long time, but even more so during these unprecedented times when you're talking with customers, what makes Unisys unique from a security perspective? >>So first thing is to understand what it takes to solve the hybrid cloud security problem. Like you said earlier, that's the biggest pain point that we hear from customers from our clients on. It's all over the market research all the breaches that have happened, like the zoom breach that happened that compromised about half a million, you know, user log ins. And then there was also the the Marriott breach, where about half a billion users names and credential for legal legal. So it Zaveri easy for customers, potential customers to become like a headline. And our our job really are the companies to make sure that they're not the next capital one or the next Marriott, uh, showing up in the newspaper. So we kind of look at their customer deployments situation on. We put together a comprehensive into an hybrid cloud solution, hybrid cloud security and compliance solution that includes look, securing their cloud infrastructure, their cloud workloads in terms of applications that they might have secured, and also to look at securing their applications, which may or may not be running on the cloud. So we kind of take a very holistic approach, using our homegrown solutions and partner solutions to create a comprehensive, robust hybrid cloud solution that really fits the customer context and and so we we are essentially a trusted adviser for our for our clients to create the solution, which again, at the cloud 40 ashore, which is a cloud security posture management solution. We have a cloud worker protection solution on then stealth, which is a full stack security solution if combined together with the other cloud Forte platform components on. We wrap this up in a matter of security services offering that allows US customers to have complete peace of mind as we take care off assessment remediation monitoring on, then continues Posture, posture, management. I know. Do you want to add anything to that? >>If I'm think in terms of closing, I think like you covered it well, we've got platform competence and services that run the gamut off the off the life cycle from migrations to two transformations. And one thing that I think in terms of outcomes of these, uh, when the service built around it have really helped us. Dr is, um is kind of responding especially to our public sector clients, very passionate about enabling cloud journeys for our public sector clients. And we'll take the example of Georgia Technology s So this is the G t A. Is the technology agency for all services are 14 of the agencies in Georgia and many of these public sector agencies had to quickly adopt cloud to deal with the report workers. Whether it was v D I whether it was chatbots on cloud, um, it was it was, ah, brand new world out there, the new normal. And it was just using the cloud management platform that anyone was refering to. We were able to kind of take them from taking three months. Plus to be able to provision workloads Thio thio less than 30 minutes to provision workloads. And this is this is across hybrid cloud. So and this is >>a big outcome, especially in this time where things were changing so quickly. Well, I wish we had more time, guys because I could tell you have a lot more that you can share. You're just gonna have to come back. And I like that. The tagline securing tomorrow. Adding on to what Anu Pump said So your customers don't become the next headline. I think they would all appreciate that. Thank you both. So much for joining me on the Cube today and sharing what's the latest with Unisys. We appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank >>you for having us >>aren't my pleasure for my guests. I'm Lisa Martin. And you're watching the Cube? Yeah,

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Women Transforming Technology. Brought to you by VMware. >> Welcome to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin covering the fifth annual Women Transforming Technology. The first year that this event has gone completely digital. We're very pleased to welcome back to theCUBE one of our favorite alumni, the Chief People Officer of VMware, Betsy Sutter. Betsy, welcome back! >> Oh, thank you, Lisa. It's great to see you and it's great to be back. Love this time of year. >> Likewise, me too. And you know, I've had the great opportunity and pleasure of covering WT2 for theCUBE the last few years so I know walking into that courtyard area in Palo Alto, VMware's headquarters, you feel the energy and the excitement, and it's really genuine. And so, knowing that you had to pivot a couple you know, eight weeks or so ago or more, to convert what is such an engaging in-person experience to digital, hard decision, the right decision, but huge in terms of the number of attendees. Tell us a little bit about that process of taking We Rise digital. >> Yeah, you know, it was a pretty quick decision. At VMWare, we were starting to virtualize some other events, and so in realtime, we said, "let's go ahead "and virtualize Women Transforming Technology 2020." And so, when we immediate, flipped to that mode, things started to really open up. The possibilities became pretty interesting. And so honestly, we did not imagine you know, the people attending would grow from roughly thousands to over 5,000. And that's what digitalizing the event, virtualizing the event did. And it was super fun to use technology to make it so much more inclusive and accessible for people around the world. I'm sure you've heard that we had over 5,000 people from over 500 companies represented from 30 different countries. So that was amazing in its own right. >> One of the things that I think was a great advantage knowing that this was the fifth one, but that you had the opportunity to build the community, and such a strong, tight-knight community over the last few years, I think was probably a great facilitator of the event being so much bigger digitally. But when I spoke with a number of your speakers, everybody said, and I saw the Twitter stream, that the engagement, it wasn't like they were watching a video. It was really interactive, and that is hard to achieve with digital. >> Yeah, you know, what I love about the technology was that there were chat rooms, and there were Q&A rooms. And so, there was a lot of back and forth in realtime, even while the speakers were talking. You could sort of multitask, and the speakers were really, really fun to interact with that way as well. And it's super fun to see people in their home environments. You know, it's a just a little bit more information about them, and they seem a little bit more relaxed too, so it was tremendous. Watching Laura Dern, who is an activist and an obviously a very famous actress, in her own home talking to us about the issues she's faced as a woman in her industry, and then moving to another woman named Kathryn Finney, who is the CEO of digitalundivided, in her home with all the activity, she had a four-year old sort of in the background, was super fun and really landed their conversations with us even more solidly. It was a great day. >> I heard that throughout Twitter that people really felt that there was a personal connection. Lot of people talking about, I'm sitting here zooming with Laura Dern, what are you doing today? And some of the things that she said about, you know, you don't have to stay in your own swimlane. That resonated with me and I think with your community very well. >> You know,the diversity, the eclecticness of the women that were able to join from around the world and from many different industries, but you know, technical women, women in tech, was, it just up-leveled everything and it fit into the theme of the conference which was "We Rise", because you know, you're trying to rise as an individual, but there we were rising as a collective for a full day, and the workshops were super fun. I mean I participated in a number of 'em, and I literally went through a workshop with I don't know how many women, but you know, I was drawing on paper then engaging on the screen, then chatting, using the Q&A feature. It was a really dynamic day. I'm wondering now if we'll ever go back, honestly. >> Right, well I was already thinking, "Wow, you can take WT to global and do original events." And there's so much opportunity right now. Tremendous amount of challenge but on the same time, there is a lot of opportunity. In fact, when I was speaking with Sharmain (mumbles) yesterday, it was amazing that she was talking about, you know, right now, like the percentage increase, in people actually reading email because they have more time to, the commute time is gone. And so her advice to be really vivid, in making yourself visual, in terms of how you communicate, and evaluate your role and how you can add new value during this challenging time and I thought that was such a powerful message because we do need to look at what opportunities are we going to be able to uncover? There will be certain things that will go away, to your point, maybe we do digital because we can engage, we can interact and we can reach a bigger audience and learn from more people. >> Yeah, I think that's spot on. I couldn't have said that better. And you could really feel it that day and then the response from both the attendees, but even the keynote speakers, both Laura and Kathryn reaching back to us and talking about the experience they had. It was a pretty uplifting day, I'm still flying pretty high from it. And it was Cinco de Mayo so there had to have been at least margaritas, skinny margaritas, maybe, you know, virgin margaritas. But something there to celebrate an accomplishment of doing something in a short period of undertaking that community and being able to push the energy through the screen is awesome. I'd love to understand, you've been the Chief People Officer at the VMware for a while, the COVID crisis is so challenging in every aspect of life. We often talk about disruption, you know, in technology, a technology disruptor, you know, video streaming was a technology disruptor and Uber was a disruptor to transportation and the taxi service, but now the disruption is an unseen, scary thing and so the emotional impact, people are talking and a number of your folks I spoke to as well said it's hard to be motivated but it's important to acknowledge that I don't feel so motivated today for managers to be able to have that check-in with our employees and our teams. Tell me a little bit about the culture of VMware and how maybe the "We Rise" theme is really kind of, pervasive across VMware right now. >> Yeah, you know, one of the things that I believe and that I've seen in the people business is that more and more people join communities, they join companies but they join communities and communities come together based on you know, their actions, their ideas, their behaviors and what I've seen in terms of VMware's response to COVID-19 has been pretty remarkable. I think at first, you know, we were in crisis mode, sort of going in triage mode about what we do to keep our people feeling safe and healthy. But now we're sort of in a mode of "okay, there's a lot of opportunity that this presents." Now, we are very very fortunate, very blessed to be in the industry that we're in, and a lot of what we do and build and provide for our customers and partners fits into this new business model of working distributedly, so there's been some highs and some lows as we've navigated. First and foremost, we've just put our employees first and their health and safety, making sure that they're comfortable is just been top of mind for us. We just did a small sentiment survey, six questions. Because about two weeks ago, I realized, "I wonder if we really know how people are feeling about this?" And one of the things that came through, I'll say this, out of 32,000 people within 24 hours, over 10,000 people responded to this six question survey, they wanted to tell us how they were doing. But over 70% said they felt, if not the same amount of connection but more connection with each other working in a distributed fashion. And I think COVID-19's brought that alive. That we're going to work in a new way, it's a new business model and so we're doing it at VMware and then we're really pleased that we can offer that to our customers and partners around the globe. >> You know, I'm glad that you talked about the employee experience because obviously, with any business, customers are critical to the life, blood of that business. But equally important, if not sometimes more impactful to the revenue of an organization is the employee experience and being productive day in and day out. And that, if the employee experience is, I think, I don't know, you can't have a good customer experience without a good employee experience. And to (mumbles) that focus is key. So it must have been really nice for the VMware employees to go, "they're wanting to know how I feel right now." That's huge for people to know, the executive team genuinely cares. >> Yeah, you know, Lisa, we have really amped up our communications. We have done more town halls, whether it's to our management community our leadership and executive community or to the whole company. Yesterday alone, I think I did six town halls and two ask-me-anythings just to make sure we know it's on top of people's minds, what's important to them and that's kind of the new normal. And it's so much easier, right? I'm not trying to get to places, I'm just kind of clicking on a button and I'm all of a sudden talking to the employees in India. And you know, when I talk to my colleagues in other industries, like, Beth Axelrod or Tracey Ballow, that are in the you know, the Marriott and the Air BnB industries, their challaneges are so different. And what they're facing in this short-term, in the medium term. VMware is in a position where we can really help these businesses and at the core of that is really, how well our employees are doing and so that's been our focus. >> One of the things that I also talked about yesterday with Jo Miller, the CEO of Be Leaderly, was the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. And I had never even understood that they were two different things until WT2. And so, I thought, you know, we all know about mentors, we talk about that all the time. But I, she was really, I think it's an important message for your audience and ours to understand the difference and she said, "people are often over-mentored and under-sponsored." And so I thought, well, "I want to understand VMware's culture of sponsorship." Tell me what's going on in that respect. >> Yeah, we're, well, I agree with everything that you said on the mentorship side and so what we've instituted on the mentorship side at VMware's reverse mentorship. So every executive at VMware has a reverse mentor, so that they can learn something that they might not be thinking about. And whether it's a reverse mentor who happens to be, if you're a man, who happens to be a woman, or if you want to engage with the under-represented minority, or if you just want to learn about the different aspect of the business, we're big on reverse mentoring. On the sponsorship side, we do do that. And that's a really important aspect to any company's culture if you're trying to cultivate talent. And sponsorship is really championship, right? And I know I champion a lot of people, a lot of the talent around the company and it's very different than maybe coaching, advicing, and interacting in that venue. It's more about, what's the right opportunity for this person? When I'm in the board room, or when I'm in the executive staff meeting, actually advocating for that person, and I'm fierce about that. Especially for women right now at VMware, and it's just important. And a lot of people are starting to adopt that mindset because there's a lot more power and influence in having sponsorship behind you than having mentorship. >> I completely agree. Are you saying that, you know, we often talk about the hard skills and then the soft skills. And I always think soft is the wrong word but I keep forgetting to look it up on the thesaurus to get a better word. Because right now, I think, more important than ever, looking at someone who might have all of the hard skills to be on this the track to the c-suite,  but the importance of authenticity and empathy, I think now are under a microscope. We talked a lot about that too with some of your guests, tell me little bit about those kinds of conversations, that came up during the interactive sessions with WT2. >> Yeah, well, you know, this is one of the blessings that's come out of COVID-19, and this pandemic is that people are starting to see, because everyone's impacted by this and not just in one way, but in multiple ways. So, there's really this once in a lifetime opportunity, at least as far as what I've seen in my lifetime, to seize this heightened level of compassion and empathy for all the people around you in terms of what we're doing. At WT2, I saw it a lot in terms of the quality of the conversations that were happening virtually and sometimes with the key notes and the guest speakers, with the audience, there was always a lead-in with compassion and empathy in terms of all of us. All of us, no matter where you are in the world, or no matter what you're doing, adjusting to what we're calling this new normal. And there's a new business normal but the new normal on the personal side I think is going to take a little bit longer, right? In terms of what people are managing. But in the business world, I think you know, people are starting to re-bound and rebuild, they're honing those skills, and they're going to be wiser and better because of it. But at the heart of it all is, as you said, a lot more compassion and empathy 'cause never before, have we all kind of gone through something quite so traumatic as COVID-19. >> Traumatic and surreal. And you know, we are all in this same storm and I think there's a level of comfort there, that I know I feel with knowing, okay, everyone is going to be feeling this rollercoaster at some point. Some days you're here, some days you're here. But we're all in this, whether you're, you know, in your role, or Pat Gelsinger or an individual contributor role, we're all in the same sea. Betsy, congratulations on a successful fifth WT2, first digital. I'm so glad the theCUBE and myself was able to participate digitally. It's always one of my favorite events every year and I look forward to seeing you again soon, which I soon will be digitally, but I look forward to it. >> Lisa, thank you so much and thanks for all of your sponsorship and mentorship with WT2 over the years too. Thank you. >> All right, you too. That was Betsy Sutter, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of Women Transforming Technology 2. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> Hi and welcome to another Cube conversation. This one from BMC Helix Immersion Days in Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris. Every organization that attempts significant change, and there are a lot of organizations attempting digital transformation, which is about as significant a set of change as you can make, has to worry about what platform, what foundation has to be in place to make that change easier, and that's what we're going to be talking about in this conversation. We've got John Fraser, who's the Managing Director of Service Management in Online Business Systems. John, welcome to the Cube. >> Thanks Peter. >> So, tell us a little bit about online business systems. Let's start there. >> So, online business systems is a Canadian digital transformation in cyber security consultancy. We've been around now for 33 years. We're headquartered in beautiful Winnipeg, Manitoba, but I have operations all across North America and we're about 330 people today and growing rapidly. >> Winnipeg happens to be one of my favorite cities in the world, so good for you. >> Perfect. All right. So, let's talk about, I mentioned up front this notion of a stable platform, a stable foundation. Tell us a little bit about what your understanding of, as you work with your clients, what constitutes that stable foundation for change? >> Well, one of the biggest challenges we see with companies, is they try to make change in the wrong way. Too much, too fast with no control, no governance and they just don't have the proper controls in place. One of the biggest challenges with change in an organization in digital transformation today is they don't know where they're starting from. So, one of the fundamentals is really understanding where they're beginning and what they're trying to change. It's staggering to see organizations, and I've got lots of stories to tell around companies that have gone through major program transformations to really trying to embrace digital technologies only to fail again and again and again, because they don't understand how things are connected together or where they're starting from. >> So, the foundation has to start with knowing what's in the foundation? Have I got that right? >> That's right. You can't change what you don't know. >> So, it's online business systems helps clients move through some of these digital transformations. I got to believe that the service management element is a crucial feature of any successful transformation. >> Absolutely, we begin with embracing technology to help companies understand where they're starting from. We leverage a lot of tools and techniques in terms of understanding where they're starting as an organization, the people, and then using tools like BMC's Helix discovery to understand all of the components that make up the systems within their organization that they're trying to transform and how they're all connected together. >> Now, as we go through this process, one of the things that a lot of my clients are discovering is that the cyber security challenges get that much more extreme. One of the things that's become increasingly obvious is as companies talk more about digital business, talk more about how they're transforming and generating new classes of revenue or customer experience, they become more obvious target to the bad guys. What is the relationship between digital transformation, service management, and cyber security? >> Yeah, and interesting you say that. We believe as an organization that they're intertwined. You can't do digital transformation without a strong cyber security program. You can't do either one of them without automation. The pace of change and more importantly the volume of threats and challenges facing the organizations is beyond human capability. You can't do it manual anymore. It doesn't matter how many people you throw at it, it's just impossible. So, you've got to automate, you've got to leverage technology, artificial intelligence to really face these challenges. >> So, given your standing and working on the service management side, what are some of the steps that your customers are taking to ensure that they are going to succeed with digital transformation in a way that doesn't open them up to security issues? >> So, one of the key areas is understanding, like I said before, where they're starting from. How all of the components that make up their business service fit together and then, understanding from a security aspect how to prioritize fixing those threats. One of the biggest challenges in securing your organization, today is understanding what to work on. The average large organization gets thousands and thousands of new vulnerabilities a day and the back log just becomes insurmountable. So, without being able to understand how to prioritize that work against valuable business services, they're never going to win. >> So, you mentioned something about service capabilities or service components, the historical norm for IT has been, until a few years ago, to focus on mainly the hardware or infrastructure assets as the things to be managed and that has been not working as well in a world where we're delivering digital services to customers and partners for revenue or other purposes. So, what constitutes a service capability or a service component in your mind as kind of the new notion of asset within IT? >> It's assets, anywhere. It could be the traditional hardware sitting in your server room. It could be servers and/or microservices sitting in a cloud location, it could be a software as a service component. They all make up business services together. >> Or combinations of all of them. >> It often is combinations of all of them together and that's one of the biggest challenges is understanding how they all fit together and how the information flows. So, for instance, if an organization is trying to prioritize how to secure a business service. Let's use automated tellers as an example. They may have traditional on premise servers, they may have cloud offerings and they may have third-party software as a service just protecting their servers on premise is not going to protect that business service, so you really need to understand how all of the pieces fit together. >> So, are you actually working with business leaders and IT leaders to do a better job with defining what constitutes a digital business capability and use that as an organizing principal for how they think about how all their resources come together? >> Yes, it's critical that you have business and IT working together and you have the right level of business working with IT. Without sponsorship at the executive level, digital transformation will fail. >> Even in Canada? >> Even in Canada. >> Well, this has been a great conversation. John Fraser who's a Managing Director and Service Management in Online Business Systems. Thanks very much for being on the Cube. >> Thanks Peter. >> And once again, this has been a Cube conversation from BMC Helix Immersion Days in Santa Clara Marriott and I'm Peter Burris. Thanks until next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electro music) >> Hi and welcome to another CUBE Conversation. This one from BMC Helix's Immersion Days, Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris. As we think about what organizations have to do over the next few years, imagine a world in which technology's being applied to generating revenue where customer experience is dependent upon technology, where your overall operational fabric and framework and likelihood of staying in business is tied to how well your technology plant works. That's where we're going and bringing an IT capability that's capable of supporting and sustaining those demands on business is an absolutely essential thing for businesses of all side. Fundamental, we have to think about how digital services that's delivering those new sources of revenue, new experiences and operations management which is ensuring that the predictability and certainty of how operations work is at the heart of many of the changes within IT today. Got a great guest to talk about that. Vidya Srinivasan is the Product Strategy and Marketing Executive at BMC Software. Vidya, welcome back to the CUBE. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So I said a lot upfront but lets start by getting the simple update. Where is BMC Helix today? >> Yeah, so Peter you were there for our first launch last year. I think about a year and a half ago. So since then obviously we've come a long way. We've onboarded a lot of customers, existing customers as well as new logos. So we are at a point where our customers are happy with Helix. They want to see more. They're working with us to roll out chat bots, really implementing a lot of our AI automation technologies. And as you heard today, eighteen months in, we now have Helix kind of expanded into the ITOM world. So we are actually bringing together the conversions of ITSM and ITOM with our Helix platform. So now officially, Helix is able to support a lot of the IT operations management functions that include monitoring , that include remediation, that include capacity and cost optimization. So it's really bringing together the two worlds of IT. That's really a foundation for a lot of our IT organizations. So we are very happy to announce it today at the Immersion Day Events and we are looking forward to a great update probably in the next six months. Back with you. >> Well one of the many challenges that an IT organization faces is that the nature of the assess that they're trying to generate returns on or changing away from hardware up into often software defining for structure and software and data as well. And that's one of the catalysts for why this ITOM/ITSM conversions is starting to happen. So we have had these people in silos. What kind of tensions is that generating as businesses try to deploy and utilize their IT in new and expressive and innovative ways? >> Yeah that's a great question. When we talk about the foundation of anything to do with IT, right, is knowing what you have. And as people heard in the keynote today, it's turning your unknowns to knowns, right? A big part of the challenge with IT is not knowing what you have. So discovery, as you said, is one of the foundational solutions we have within the Helix Suite that helps customers discover what they have whether it's as assets, it could be software, especially in a software world. So really understanding what you have and then being able to proactively and predictively monitor those assets, knowing what vulnerabilities you have, being able to automatically remediate those, and ultimately it's delivering the ultimate service experience to the end customer. So that's where Helix as a whole with Discover, Monitor, Service, Re Media and Optimize gives you the whole good handle on what you have and be able to ultimately provide the service of the future that we all as consumers in our day to day lives expect, we'll start expecting in our work lives. >> Well there has historically been some tension between the ITOM people and the ITSM people. They've been very strong siloed, each intent on optimizing their own capabilities. That has undermined business in many respects and certainly undermined the IT mission because a lot of people look at IT as being the problem in large measure because they have been throwing information back over the fence and sometimes at each other. So in your experience, now Helix has been out there for a year and a half. In your experience, how are ITOM and ITSM groups starting to work better together? Utilizing tooling that's not built for just one but is actually built for the idea, the promise of a greater more converged set of functions? >> Yeah so I think the tug of ITSM and ITOM organizations continue to exist and the convergence starts happening when the organization starts starting to mature in their life cycles. So let's take a simple example of a ticket. You as an end user open a service request, it goes to a service desk, somebody picks it up, and ultimately if that ticket is associated with an asset or a service that's running somewhere and the actual Cloud instance or something is broken, that's a perfect example of an end user, an agent in an ITSM scenario and an IT operations person having to all work together to make the customer happy. So that is a typical scenario in every organization and every organization has multiple service desks and multiple lines of business, not just IT issues. So making sure that through our solutions, making sure that we can minimize the existence of IT silos is a big part of what Helix brings to the table. And as we rule out the capabilities, whether you call them Discover, you know, the five capabilities that we outlined or whatever you might be referring to within the organization. It is important to make sure that the ultimate platform that brings them together is seamlessly integrated, whether it's all on one physical platform or through integration strategies across other tools in the industry, but that's kind of the intent of bringing together these two worlds. >> But at least the data is working together. >> Exactly. >> So I want to highlight one of the things you said and why it's so important we start thinking about this differently. You noted the idea of a user, an ITSM or a Service Management professional and then someone who's on the operations side doing configurations or provisioning of resources. When that person that started that off, who generated that ticket, is an employee we have certain degree of control over how fast we can service them. When we start talking about that user being a customer, now we're really talking about service experience. We're really talking about the brand. We're really talking about revenue. How is the emergence of a new class of users, being customers and increasingly using things like Robotic Process Automation, other forms of software, that are generating these kinds of requirements, altering the demand for some of these advanced tools? >> Yeah there's quite a bit of things you touched in that question so from an end user standpoint, automation comes in various forms and obviously from an end user standpoint it's this channel of preference and that's where leveraging technologies like chat bots from an end user experience standpoint, being able to use your phone, it could be your tablet, whatever it might be or your voice assistance through your phone, all of those are things that customers are expecting because you know, that's how I communicate on a day to day basis so it's nothing new. On the RPA and the automation side on the back end of things there's definitely this notion of augmented, I know a lot of our speakers spoke about this earlier, this notion of augmented intelligence that we all need to kind of embrace in order for us to deliver that end user experience and end user doesn't have to be B2B. It can be B2E, B2C, whatever it might be. At some point at least in this world we are kind of getting to a point where it doesn't matter whether it's a B2B, B2C, or B2E. It's everybody is an end user and there is no delineation in terms of the experience that anybody expects. So that's kind of what we expect to transcend into the back office whether it's IT service desk or if it's the IT operation's persona. Being able to discover or scan things from your chat bot, from your tablet, instead of having a honking machine that you normally think of when you think of a knock. So those are all things I think are sort of going to be erased in terms of what we think of IT ops. as we look into the next three to five years. So that's the experience that I think, it's not just limited to an end user but across the IT organization. What does that experience look like for all the various personas to coexist and collaborate within the construct of an enterprise. >> So, you again, have been out with customers. Either taking remedy customers and bringing them to Helix or brand new customers and bringing them to Helix. What are some of the patterns of success that you're starting to see? Where does it tend to start? What kinds of outcomes are they achieving? Where do you see your happiest customers being? >> I think it's spectrum of customers right, so it's a range. There are customers who are at an early stage in terms of just thinking about how to move to Cloud so those customers are simply thinking about okay I've been using your OnPrem Solution Remedy for a while and we are at a point where we need to move it to in to a SaaS model. So there are customers who are just looking to lift and shift and move to a SaaS model. There are other customers who, it's a no-brainer, they started with us in a SaaS model and then now they're looking to leverage more of the NextGen experience, so they are looking at chat bots, they're looking at RPA bots and working with us on that. And then there are customers who are just looking to integrate with us on different fronts. They might be using other tools and then they're looking at leveraging our integration capabilities or whatever it might be so there's a variety of different customers in different stages but obviously a big part of this shift we are seeing that's common across these is the move to SaaS and the fact that they don't want to worry about running their operations as much as they want to reinvent and innovative and grow. So that's the common theme that we're seeing across the variety of customers that we're helping today. >> Vidya Srinivasan, Product Strategy, Marketing Executive, BMC Software, once again thanks for being on the CUBE. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> And from the BMC Helix Immersion Days at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California, I'm Peter Burris. Once again this has been a CUBE Conversation. Until next time. (upbeat electro music)

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome to another cute conversation. This one from BMC Helix is immersion days in Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California One of the biggest challenges that every IittIe organization faces. In fact, every business is how to start merging greater control through I t sm as well as greater change and evolve ability of systems through Dev ops. It's a big topic. A lot of folks looking at how best to do it. We've got a great person here to talk to us about it. Dick Stark is the president CEO of right star Dick. Welcome to the Cube. >>Well, thanks very much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity beyond the Cube here. >>Excellent. Well, why don't we start? Tell us a little about right start? >>Sure. Right. Stars in I t sm consultancy and we happen to be a dev Ops consulted to say at the same time, we're also a BMC solution provider and lasting solution provider. Now, we've been a BMC solution provider for for 16 years, so we've been in this space a long time and we've earned several accolades up along the way. We made it into the Forrester I t s m service provider. It's not called a Magic Quadrant because that's what God gardener uses. But instead it's a wave report. And so we made it sort of into the far right hand quadrant there. And if you added up all the points we ended up in North America being rated number five out of all the different idea Sam Consultancy. So it's very proud about that. And then last year with BMC, we were the North American Solution provider of the year in the D S. M space. >>Well is an export person, I can tell you Congratulations. Those waves very seriously. Let's jump into this question, though off what does I t. S m from a technology and people in process standpoint have to do to accommodate some of the changes that are being founded and defusing out of the Hole Dev Ops world, which is just having an enormous impact on our I t thinks and does >>it really has. And you know, we've been in the space a long time and I t s m Sometimes I tell the words are interchangeable and there are about if you can believe this about three million people That ended up getting an Idol certification of some short like an Idol Foundation certificate. And over time, that's been have been a really a big, big deal. However, Idol now is lost, its luster just a little bit. And it's allowed Dev ops to sort of sneak in or add dollar whatever you won't want to call it, and I'd listen. Standing still, though, they've bounced back and bounce back in a hard way. And they've they've come up with what's now called Idle for an Idol For was just released this this year, and it takes some of those Dev ops principles, and it has its own value stream as well and is a result Idle for or agile idol or whatever you wanna call it now is taking a little bit stronger position. And when I say Dev ops principles, it's things like Collaborate. It's things like promote, it's It's things like operate and automate. It's It's It's all about it again. It's all about collaboration in some of these other values that that you'll see in Dev ops. I guess what what happened is we spent a lot of time on the Idol side of things, and we did things for process sake and a good example would be changed management and spent a lot of time putting together is change management processes per this idol framework. Okay, And what what happened is that a lot of the users then rebelled a little bit because it might take longer to go through and fill out all the paperwork of It's not paperwork the online tool set then to do a change than to actually perform the change itself. So I don't got a little bit of a bad rap. And so that's where this whole Dev ops thing has come in. And the whole idea right now is to get Dev and Ops under the Shame umbrella, because that's not typically very used to do. But it's, but it's certainly happening. >>Well, let's talk about why that intersections happening, right? So I'm gonna I'm gonna show a little bit of history from my perspective as well, you know, I told began, First of all, it started in some government agencies many years ago, but it started as the basis of it was How do we take better care of the assets with an I T. Which at the time were mainly hardware. In many respects, what we've seen happen over the last 25 30 years that Idol has been an extent. Is that the nature of the assets that I t recognizes? His acknowledges delivering value for the business has changed. We've gone from hardware to infrastructure is code. That's where Dev Ops is so many respects. What you're saying is that Iittle is now trying to bring the best of what it means to do a good job of asset management with a new class of assets. Namely, software is code infrastructures code, and that's where we have to have that marriage. I got that right. >>That's that's correct. And you don't want to have silent silos. You want to be a silo buster if if anything else. And I just wanted to mention something else that I think is kind of fun along with this Idol. Four. We now do what's called the Mars Lander simulation traded it replaced. If you've heard of the Apollo 13 simulation, will Mars four, even though it's idle for specific, it's really all about Dev ops, and I took the Mars board just about a month or so ago, and it's a lot of fun. You sit down and the whole objective is to get get to Mars and you're a business. So and you're going to be selling the data that you're going to collect along along the way. And so the whole idea is to is to make a profit, and you have all these different roles that you play. When I went through it, I was the release manager then. But you might have a business analyst. You might have a service desk person. You have vendors and a it's it's really it's very realistic that and typically like a lot of large enterprises, you start playing the game and it's just chaos, and you have to go back and try this over and over again until essentially you get it right. And I was surprised how easy it is to get sucked in. If you're in a big enterprise, your silent, you have a specific role that you have to d'oh and you have instructions how you're supposed to do that and you want to stick to it. Whatever you know, whatever your assignment is, you have to do that. But that's not the right thing to Dio. Remember, it's about collaboration. It's about transparency. It's been it's about posting your goals, posting the results and moving forward from from there. And so I was surprised how I got sucked into it. And so I can understand why we need to make some progress in this space. And it's all about getting people to change their behavior a little bit in some of these new tool set certainly help >>well, as well. You're going back to what you said. He used to be the three R's of any regime or rolls responsibilities and relationships, and so the roles have are evolving. But often it's just in name only the responsibilities. You know today it's still code. It still has to run on hard, where it's not a bunch of hamsters, they're doing things. But as you said, it's really the relationships amongst the various actors as we introduce more business people. As technology gets put into position to generate more revenue or to do more with customer experience, the relationships are being pressured, are being really pushed to evolve. So how do you see in your practice in right stars practice. How do you see the relationships between Dev ops and I T s M and the business starting to evolve so that you can have amore coherent, comprehensive view of how you make sister? Well, >>I think in that particular case, it's gonna take some time. I mean, it's not gonna happen overnight. I mean, that's why you have agile coaches, or that's while you have the scales agile, or the safe framework is because people don't get it. And they need to understand how to work together better with others. And so it's not gonna happen by just implementing a new new tool set turning the key and then say, OK, everything's gonna be fine. It's good to get the integration between the different tool sets. And the technology is certainly there to do that. But without having some instruction to begin with and having the door in users cooperate. You're not going to see that kind of kind of performance improvement or cost statements or whatever it is that you're looking for. You're not going to see that >>they're one of the biggest challenges in any changes. Abandonment. The user's ultimately abandoned. So as you look a tte. The ideas M tool set that you're utilizing mainly from being right is it is that there's a degree of there's always a degree of pedagogic tool away, it says. Here's how you should do things. What you're discovering is that tool set is really catalyzing. Helping to catalyze positive changes in your mind within a lot of your customer base is, well, the >>thing about Helix, and I'm very excited about this because we're making a lot of good progress with. He likes our customer base that we have right now and give you a good example. George Washing University were based in a D C. Area day. If they are, too, they've been a long time remedy customer. We've moved them to Helix, and then, just recently, when I say recently started a year ago in August, they moved to the BMC Chap Cat box platform. Then, this past August, they totally went cold turkey with chatbots throughout the entire university. That makes a tremendous difference in the performance and not just performance, but also on the cost and the efficiency that the university, particularly from a service management perspective, is providing to its university employees and to its students, just like you mentioned today in the keynote session that it's all about mobility. And practically practically all the students there rely on their their cellphone day in and day out. And so when they have a question at G W. If it's how do I get a new account? How do I get a park parking permit? G on the wireless in my dorm room isn't working. You don't pick up the phone and call. Nobody does that you texted at. And this is a chap off its power by IBM Watson, and it works great. And there's lots of good things that are gonna come out of that. For example, students, I think they probably still have to turn paper sent. You know, maybe that's all Elektronik Lee delivered, but I think you might still have to print out a paper and turn it into your professor. You know, I'm not sure, but bluebirds Anyway, you're probably you're probably gonna do this late at night when the service desk is an open. So what do you do if you can't get the printer to work? Well, you pick up your cell phone, you text in that That the issue and bingo. You've got a response. So those are the sorts of things that are gonna make for a tremendous amount of impact, and it's gonna cause people to change their behavior in really a good way. Another good example. We have another longtime hospital customer. They have a 24 by seven service desk. They're huge, and they pay a lot of money to operate that 24 by seven. But they hardly get any call said at night. Right? Because not that many people work. So why don't they just turn that and you start using chatbots and think of that the r A. Y. It's just incredible. And I think you're going to see more. And that more situations like that as we move forward. >>Dick start President CEO of right Starr. Yep. Thanks very much for being too. >>Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Okay. >>And what's going on? Peter Burress. You've been watching other cube conversation from BMC Helix immersion days in Santa Clara. Thanks very much. Next time

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome to another cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Days and Santa Clara, California The Senate Clara Marriott. Every organization of any scale now has to lean on their suppliers in the technology world in different ways. It used to be you could almost have an antagonistic relationship with whoever was offering you technology. But today, every business is becoming increasingly dependent on technology suppliers that are providing crucial strategic service's. And that relationship is changing the way we think about technology. That is nowhere more obvious than the Manage service's provider space or the MSP space, which is highly dependent upon very complex delivery of very rich service's and a set of analytics that air allow the many service provider in the business to work together to achieve strategic ends. Now have a conversation about how that's working and how that's changing. We've got a great cube conversation got Aldo Romero, who's the cross service is deputy director at Keio Networks Mexico. Alda, Welcome to the Cube. So let's start with what is key networks tell us a little bit about Kiyo Networks. >>Okay, Kyo networks. Personally, he canna from dad and me, you know so much. Probably. Service is a technology. Inform us on the mission critical tenemos court. Enter data centers until Mexico Panorama making quarter political American Guatemala. So if >>we think about this challenge upfront, I said that increasingly, business has to think about treating its suppliers differently in the manage service providers at the vanguard of that, what catalyzed Keogh Network's decision to start thinking about how digital service is and operations management. We're gonna have to start coming together so that you could provide a better set of managed service capabilities to your clients. >>Another 50 are intellectuals For most of the heat does Bella Paralysis. Harvey Seo is a wall of stones in front under the remit Parma coral and triggers. A reason was clean and it's Santy Okay, on a work visa, no Russian grand plataforma CCTV shows was gonna transform our nose and Monroe and Moroccan era Watson was clean. A the city most cake. Alex LaMarca Hello, Obama said a roller. I mean telekinesis. Thomas put up a little emporia. Sorry. C'mon, process. So that's a gimme into control. Purple rules transformer heat element. So as >>you think about using BMC Helix and other classes of technology. You must have a vision in mind of where your relationships and how your service is are gonna be provided. Tell us a little bit about the relationship that you have with BMC Helix and how it's informing and altering and adjusting the promises in the value propositions that you have to your manage. Service customers. >>LaMarca parties with the most. The teleconference. A Norman 10. Vamos a bodyguard Transformer journals. You have a key on networks LLC and technology on the set of issues it processes your lot ago, most in your mutual momentous and those qualities of Israel experience. Check every message from Ministro. Probable servicios is most polio liberal exito process a literal form. A syndicate tile in our mentor mentor now look innocent of all arsonist risk. Leontes, his former meant importante para nosotros a parabola guarantee survey. No Star Service >>manage Service's has been around for a while. We're now talking about Cloud Service isn't as important subset of the manage service of space, but as one that over the course of the next few years might even become more important, especially in countries like Mexico that are growing so fast and introducing increasingly complex capabilities within their economies. As Keogh Networks evolves, do you see yourself being a leader in how cloud service is evolve as well? >>See if you determine, take yours leader in Lapa Improbable level problems servicios the clout that most officials the club go on Amazon. The notary's is the cloak on Microsoft tennis officials that throughout the opening stock include Syria. Infinity tormented knows Romans camellia in America. >>So one last question as you envision moving forward with this increasingly combined digital service, is management and operations management. What kind of leadership are you looking to be? Him? See? He looks for >>Leader Yasuoka. Stumbled booze can do is for their their arms. Trustee in testing facility. Tireless operaciones Sartre Business officials. The mission. Critical contextual. Here's the MTA cameras were Mr Alex Cee Lo Vamos con una Fortaleza, You know, in a para para nuestros revisions in America, he said, mass value. So spar partners >>Aldo Aldo Romero. Thank you very much for being on the Cube. Thank you. All the romero is tthe e Crawl Service is Deputy director Keogh Networks in Mexico, and once again, I'm Peter Burns. This has been another cute conversation until next time

>>Hi and welcome to another cube conversation this time from BMC helix immersion day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. I'm Peter Burris, your host for today. One of the biggest challenges that every company faces as they try to think about how they're going to do more with digital services and operation in support of more complex business. And the need for greater simplicity is how to extend their ecosystem to include other sources of knowledge, other sources of insight about how a company can accelerate its journey to this new D S O M world. And to have that conversation, we've got a great partner, uh, here at BMCs helix immersion days. Rob graves is the vice president at data trend. Rob, welcome to the cube. >>Thank you Peter. Glad to be here. >>So tell us a little bit about data train. It's a, it's a BMC partner. You've been around for a long time, helping customers do some relatively important infrastructure things. Where are you guys today? >>Yeah, well I'll go back a little history. We've been in business since 1987. Same two owners, a lot of stability. They continue to drive the business for us. Um, heavy in the infrastructure space, really got started in the data center and a regional multi-site, uh, businesses, large enterprises in the hospitality, retail, financial services, et cetera, where we've grown up, um, started out like a lot of businesses selling hardware and pretty quickly as customers ask for higher value, have moved into consulting and broader services, really consider ourselves, uh, infrastructure centric systems integrator if that's a mouthful. That's really who we are and what we do. Um, as we have all of those consulting practices, more and more, we realized the need to understand our customer's environments better, oftentimes better than they even do. And came across a product called Tideway, which was launching the U S became one of their launch partners here in the U S and shortly thereafter BMC acquired them. So we became a BMC partner in 2009 and it's just been a great journey ever since. Um, at the time they were probably the most robust discovery tool and uh, uh, they've continued to keep that leadership since then. >>Well, let's pick up on that. So discovery is historically been a kind of a domain that was used mainly by an it group to have some, a little bit better understanding of what types of things they needed to do, a task needed to perform. But in a digital business, discovering digital assets becomes absolutely a strategic capability. So how has discovery of volved and then how are you using it to bring these new levels of value? >>It's a great question and it's a more and more essential as the world gets more complex and devices get more complex with cloud, with IOT and centers, Penn transient or right. It was one thing to, to be able to recognize I have these physical service servers here in my data center or maybe even in remote offices. Then, um, our friends at VMware came along and made everything virtual. So how do I manage a workload going from this physical device to another physical device? Fantastic. Actually one of my favorite Cuba, uh, interviews ever of old friend of mine, Pat Gelsinger, I just love watching all his cube interviews just came off of VMworld, very bright tastic love. But, um, they really got that going as cloud really started to, to launch, okay, now I've got application workloads, pieces of my it all over the place. Um, and keeping on top of that is just daunting. Right? And somebody's gotta give BMC a lot of credit, uh, as they've continued to remarket themselves and, and build capabilities. They are absolutely at the front of the curve, the BMC helix discovery product, um, all sorts of competitors, little startups through some very large players. But whenever we bring it into a customer, hands down, we're able to get more done. That comprehensive view of the infrastructure through the applications, through the business services. Um, we constantly come in and replace other products. Bring this back in. >>Well, one of the things that I've observed as a guy who has spent a lot of time watching the industry is, uh, technologies like discovery were especially important at the very largest enterprises because they had all these physical assets that they, that people were buying and installing and they never knew quite was what was on the network. And it was always like this thing was kind of, maybe it was appropriate for a mid size enterprise, but it didn't have the same numbers. But when you start introducing, as you said, virtualization or software robots or other transient assets and resources that are going to have a significant impact in how the business operates, the number of things that you have to stay on top of means it's now an appropriate set of technologies for virtually any size organization. Do you see that as well? >>Absolutely. And especially companies that have lots of locations, lots of sites complex it, I love that BMC jumped pretty early into extending the, the helix discovery into the IOT space. We do a lot of multisite deployments. Um, we're part of the, several of the large OEMs, IOT systems integration programs. And when you're starting to talk hundreds, thousands, even millions of devices out there, how do these companies, these users keep track of all that and make sure that they're operating properly? The security is a big issue. I mean, one of the best things I like about the helix discovery is, uh, how can you secure something you don't understand? I mean, I can't tell you how many times we've gone in with discovery. Uh, to handle one use case. Something as simple as, um, populating a CMDB or, uh, making sure that dr plan is, is solid or relocating a data center, which kind of the classic use cases of a discovery product. >>And you have the security guys come into the room just cause they're everywhere. They have to be watching everything, right? Then all of a sudden I, one of the large stock brokerages, all of a sudden the security guy jumped in the front room and said, stop, stop. What is that? And he points at our application map that came out of helix discovery. It's that, that should not be talking to that. Right. And uh, you know, basically found a big vulnerability just because of an application dependency that the security team wasn't aware of. Um, BMC has got quite a few good examples where they'll almost an accidental big security play happen just from a security guy being in the room and watching the output from discovery and seeing things that their tools had never shown them. >>And I do not want to be the guy that agitated the security guy in a meeting like that. So I was great. Isn't that the satellite board is pretty funny. So, so tell us a little bit about your customer base and how they are utilizing some of this new tooling, uh, to, uh, to extend current but also alter and change future types of business. >>Yeah, there's a, a variety of, uh, great stories. We typically play in larger enterprises, a lot of fortune one hundreds. Um, I'll, I'll leave some of the, uh, our good customers nameless, protect the guilty and the innocent. Right. But, uh, one of the large airlines, you know, went through an exercise of stamps, new dr capability. Uh, it's still wrapping that up. Um, they've had a number of unplanned outages based on new changes. They're doing a lot of change, modernizing applications, moving into new data centers. Screen new dr capabilities. You know, they thought they had decent understanding. Their environments went through their change control process. Oops. Didn't realize that other applications would depend on this server that we just did in the last upgrade on, um, took their line down for a couple of hours. You know, that's not good. Um, uh, bringing in these discovery tools very quickly, they've seen, Hey, I can prevent that. >>I can really understand in real time what's talking to what and make sure I avoid out. That's a big one. I mentioned some of the security conversations. Uh, something that we've been doing some innovation with BMC is getting to some of the discovery as a service type of capabilities and that's allowing us to do some what we're calling micro use cases. Even some simple challenges like, um, a network switch maintenance. Everyone wants to reduce the cost of, of hardware maintenance. What's really hard to discern with hundreds or even thousands of switches, which ones are supporting which workloads. So we can go into an environment and say, Hey, you've got a thousand network switches. You know, 500 of them are just supporting test. I want you to take those off 24 by seven, two hour support and really give them a real time mapping. And that's a money saver right there. That's been very difficult for them to figure out on their own. Um, because that connection from the infrastructure to the apps and the services that are being delivered. So there's a variety of different use cases like that. >>So when you think about where data trends is going to go and, uh, as your business expands in response to the new types of things that customers want to do, where do you think you're going to be spending your time with customers in say, three years? And how is this set of digital services and operations management tooling going to make it possible for you to deliver that service more reliably, more profitably, et cetera? >>Yeah, no, it's uh, it's interesting. Um, while we grew up in the data center, we touch a lot of, uh, large edge environments as well. And we're seeing more and more innovation coming at the edge. Uh, Sanjay from gen pack spoke earlier and you used a great phrase again, innovation at the edge, governance at the core, and it's really, um, something that, uh, we're seeing a lot. So new workloads out on the edge. Gotta be able to understand that, see what's out there, because more and more compute and analytics that can be done at the edge, not in your data center. That's a place we're putting a lot of focus right now. >>Rob graves, vice president of data trend. Thanks again for being on the queue. All right. You got it. Thank you. And once again, this is Peter Burris from the Santa Clara Marriott at BMCs helix immersion days. Thanks for watching. Until next time.

[Music] hi and welcome to another cube conversation this time from the MCS Hilux immersion day at the Santa Clara Marriott beautiful Northern California we're going to be spending the entire day having a series of discussions about what it means to do a better job of both digital services management and operations management and how those technologies are coming together to dramatically alter how business operates how customers get value and ultimately how profits are generated we're going to start this conversation with a CDO a chief digital officer from Genpact sanjay sri tvasta welcome to the cube thank you very much so to start tell us a little bit about Jim pacts interesting company comprised we are indeed Genpact is a large global professional services provider for digital transformation services we serve many of the fortune 500 companies around the world and we help them think through their business processes in the business models and digitally transform that to take advantage of so all the new capabilities that are coming through so digital service outcomes is a very important feature of that because I presume that when you have those conversations with customers you're talking about the outcomes that they're trying to achieve yeah and not just the services that you're gonna provide it's fine so tell us a little bit about what is a digital service outcome and why is it so important yeah well I think the reality is that what technology is doing it it's disintermediating the ecosystem so many of the industries our clients operate in and they have to go back and reimagine their value proposition of the core of what they do with the use of new innovative technologies and it's that intersection of new capabilities of new innovative business models that really use emerging technologies but intersect them with their business models with their business processes and the requirements of their clients and help them rethink reimagine and deliver the new value proposition that's really what it's all about so digital service outcome would then be the things that the business must do and must do well but ideally with a different experience or with a different degree of flexibility and agility or with and cost profile I got that right correct so when we think about that what are some of the key elements of a digital service success we like to think about three critical success factors in driving any digital transformation the first one is the notion of experience and what I mean by that is not user interface for a piece of software but the journey of a customer an employee a provider a partner in engaging with you in your business model and we think about journey mapping that scientifically we think about design thinking on the back of that and we think about reimagining what the new experience looks like one of the largest things we learned in the industry is digital transformation on the back of costs take out a productivity or efficiency is is is insufficient to drive and optimize the value that digital can bring and using experience as the compass is sort of the Northstar in that journey is a meaningful differentiator and drive our business benefits so that's number one in the second area that's become increasingly apparent is the intersection of domain with digital and the thinking there is that to materialize the benefit of digital in an enterprise you have to intersect it with the specifics of that business how users interact what clients seek how does business actually happen you know we talk about it artificial intelligence a lot we do a lot of work in AI is an example and there's key thing about machine learning is goal orientation and what is goal orientation it's about understanding the specifics of your environments you can actually orient the goal of the machine learning algorithm to deliver higher high accuracy results and it's something that can often easily get overlooked so indexing on the two halves of the whole the yin and the yang the the the piece around digital and the innovative technologies and being able to leverage and take advantage of them but equally be founded and domain understand the environment and use that knowledge to drive the right materialization of the and that's the second critical success factor I think to get it right I think that third one is the notion of how do you build a framework for innovation you know it's not the sort of thing where large fortune company 100 500 fortune 500 companies can necessarily experiment and you know it's a little bit for go happy-go-lucky strategy it doesn't really work you have to innovate at scale you have to do it in a fundamental fashion you have to do it as a critical success factor and so one of the biggest things we focus on is how do you innovate at the edge innovation must be at the edge this is where the rubber meets the road but governance has to be at the core let me build on that for a second because you said innovations at the edge so basically that means where the brand promise is being enacted for the customer and that could be at an industrial automation setting or it could be in recommendation if any any number of things but it's where the value proposition is realized for the customer correct okay that's exactly right and that's where innovation must happen so as a large corporation you must be you know it's important to set up a framework that allows you to do innovation at the edge otherwise it's not meaningful innovation if you will it's just a lot of busy work and yet as you do that and if you change your business model is you bring new components to the equation how do you drive governance and it's increasingly becoming more important you think about we're gonna be in a AI first world increasingly more and more that's the reality the world we're going in and in that AI first world you know III work here in Palo Alto I walk into my office a couple of hundred people in any given day if tomorrow morning I walked in and hundred people didn't show up for work I would know right away because I can see them now fast forward to an environment where we have digital workers we have automation BOTS we have conversationally I chat box and in that world understanding which of my AI components are on which ones are off which ones showed up for work today which ones fell sick and really being able to understand that governance and that's just the productivity piece of it then you think about data and security AI changes complete dimensions on that and you think about bias and explained ability to become increasingly important and notion of a digital ethics board and thinking about ethics more pervasively so I think that companies and clients we serve that do really well in digital transformation are those that keen on those three things the notion of experience is the true compass for how you try transformation the ability to intermix domain and digital in a meaningfully intersecting fashion and to be thoughtful proactive and get governance right up front in the journey to come so let me again building out a little bit because people are increasingly recognizing that we're not going to centralized with cloud we're going to greater distribute we're going to distribute data more we're going to distribute function more but you just added another dimension that some some of us have been thinking about for a long time and that's this notion of distributing authorities yeah so that an individual at the edge can make the decision based on the data and the resources that are available with the appropriate set of authorities and that has to be handled at a central in a in a overall coherent governed way so that leaves the next question and just before you go that I mean I think the best example of that is we do that most corporations do that really well in the financial scheme of things business is that the edge make decisions on a day-to-day basis on pricing and and relationships and so on and so forth and yet there's a central audit committee that looks through the financials and make sure it meets the right requirements and has the right framework and much in the same way we're gonna start seeing digital ethics committees that become part of these large corporations as they think about digitizing the business governance at the end of the day is how do you how you orchestrate multiple divergent claims against a common set of assets and and being able to do that it's absolutely essential and it leads to this notion of we've got to cite these ideas of digital business digital services and operations management how are we going to weave them together utilizing some of these new technologies new fabrics that are now possible to both achieve the outcomes we're talking about at scale in its speed yeah well the the technology capabilities are improving really well in that area and so the good news is there's a set of tools that are now available that give you the ingredients the the components of the recipe that's required to make dinner well you know the the work that needs to happen is actually how to orchestrate their that to figure out which components you to come in and how do you pull together a vertical stack that has the right components to meet your needs today and more importantly to address the needs of the future because this is changing like no other time in history you want options with everything you do now you want to make sure that you have a stream of options for the future and that's especially important here that's right that's exactly right and and the the the quick framework we've established there is sort of the three-legged stool of how do you integrate quickly how do you modular eyes your investments and how do you govern them into one integrated whole and those become really important I'll give you examples you know much of the work we do will work with the consumer bank for instance and they'll want to do a robotic process automation engagement will run on for nine months they'll get 1,800 robots up and running and the next question becomes well now we have all this data that we didn't really have because now we have an RPA running how do I learn some machine learning insights from there and so we then work with them to actually drive some insights and get these questions answered and then the engagement changes to well now that we have this pattern recognition that we understand more questions will be asked how do I respond to those questions a automatically and before they get asked this notion of next best action and so you think about that journey of a traditional client you know the requirements change from robotics to machine learning to conversationally AI to something else and keeping that string of investments that that innovative sort of streak true and yet being able to manage govern and protect the investments that's the key role and especially if we do want to look at innovation at the edge because we want to see some commonalities otherwise we freaked people out along the way don't exactly right so I'm J Street of AUSA thank you very much for being on the cube thank you for having me and once again I'm Peter Burroughs and we'll be back with our next guest shortly from BMC Hilux immersion day here at the Santa Clara Marriott thanks very much for listening

>>Hi, I'm Peter Burress. And welcome back to know the Cube conversation. This one from B M sees Helix Immersion Day at Santa Clara Marriott in Santa Clara, California. Once again, we've got a great set of topics for today Today, Right now we're gonna talk about is the everybody talks about the explosion in the amount of data, but nobody talks about the resulting or associated explosion in software. And that may in fact, be that an even bigger issue than the explosion and data. Because ultimately, we want to apply that data and get work done. That's gonna require that we rethink service's rethink service management, rethink operations and rethink operations management in the context of how all this new software is gonna create new work but also can perform new classes of work. Soto have that conversation. We've got a couple of great guests. New York. And here is the BMC president of Digital Service is in operations management division to BMC. Welcome back to the Cube. >>Thank you. >>And me Here shoot Close the CEO of Automation anywhere here. Welcome to the Cube. So Naoki, I want to start with you. A year ago, we started on this journey of how this new digital service is is going to evolve to do Maur types of work for people. How has be emcees? Helix Platform evolved in that time. >>So if you remember last time, it's almost a year. Back when we launched Helix, which was all around taking the service management capability that we had on Prem Minute available in cloud continue rise so customers can run and cut of their choice and provided experience through various channels bought as channel off that customer experience. This is what we had released last time. We call it the three C's for Helix, Everything in cloud containerized with cognitive capabilities so customers can transform that experience in this version. What we are extending helix is with the operation side. So although I Tom capabilities that we have in our platform are now a part off Felix, so we have one entering platform so that customers can discover every asset that they have on prominent loud monitor those assets detected anomalies service bought four lines of business and for i t. For immediate issues that happen, vulnerabilities that are there in the system and automatically optimized capacity and cost on holistic. This whole closed loop off operations and service coming together is what this next day off innovations that were launching BMC Helix >>Soma here New York He's talked about very successfully, and Felix has been a very successful platform for improving user experience. But up front, I noted that we're not just talking about human beings as users anymore. We're talking about software is users R p a robotic process. Automation is a central feature of some of these new trends. Tell us a little bit about how robotic process automation is driving an increased need for this kind of digital service in operations management capability? >>Sure think it a high level you have to think of. The new organization has augmented organization that are human and what's working side by side, each doing what they're best at. And so, in a specific example of a service organization, uh, the the BMC hell ex ist Licht Alexis Taking this is Think of this as a utility where the way you plug it into an electricity outlet and switch on the light and you get the electricity, you plug into the BMC helix, and behind it, you have augmented workforce of chat boards are pia bots, human beings each doing what they're best at and giving a far superior customer experience and like any other that is happening now. And that's the future off service industry. >>But when you point a human, so to speak metaphorically into that system, there's a certain amount of time there's a certain amount of training. There's a certain, and as a consequence, you can have a little bit more predictable scale. That doesn't mean that you don't end up with a lot of complexity, but our p A seems that the potential of our P A seems that you're going to increase the rate at which these users, in this case, digital users are going to enter into the system. You don't have a training regimen you can attach to them. They have to be tested. They have to be discovered. You have to be put in operation with reliability. How is that ultimately driving the need for some of these new capabilities? >>I think you if you think of this, if you think of this box as a digital workers, you almost have to go through the same process that you would go through human beings. You onboard them in terms of you, configure them. You trained them with cognitive capabilities and the and then in. The one difference is the monitor themselves. Without any bias they give, they can give you. They can give their own performance rating performance rating card. Um, but the beauty off this is when human and what's work together because there are some functions that the bots can do well. And then at some point they can hand off to the human beings and human beings. Do some of the more interesting work that is based on judgment. Call customer service. All of that, um, so that the combination is is the end goal for everybody >>and to add would be here said right, that customer experience, whether you're providing experience to employees, are consumers and customers. That is the ultimate goal. That's ultimate result of what you want to get and the speed at which you provided experiences, the accuracy of which you provide experience of the cause, that which you provided experience becomes a competitive sensation, which is where all this automation, this augmentation that they're doing with humans and bots is what enables us to do that right for or large enterprise customers May major service organizations trying to transform into that beautiful. >>But increasingly, it seems as though the, uh, the things that we have to do to orchestrate in ministry Maur users digital and human undertaking Maur complex tasks where each is best applied is really driving a lot of new data mentioned upfront, an enormous amount of software and you said new experiences. But those experiences have to be reliable, have to be secure. They have to be predictable. So that suggests this overwhelming impact of all of these capabilities. You talk about a digital tsunami? What are some of the key things? Do you think Enterprise is gonna have to do to start engaging that? >>Yeah, I'm incredibly college 40 nursery revolution. Whether we call our initial transformation, I think what we all are experiencing is the tsunami Texan ami, right, Tsunami of clouds, where you have corruption clouds, private clouds have a close marriage clouds, tsunami of devices, not just more valid visors, but also has everything alone, as is getting connected devices, tsunami of channels. I mean, as an end user, I wantto experience that in the channel of my preference lack as a journalism as a channel tsunami of bots, off conversation, bullets in our Peabody. So in this tsunami, I think what everyone is trying to figure out is, how do they manage this explosion? It's humanly impossible to do it all manually. You have toe augment it. But of course, intelligence, I'm all. But then, of course, boss, become a big part of that augmentation toe. Orchestrate all of them back to back cross. >>I would say that the this is no longer nice to have, because if you look it from over consumer's perspective, last 20 years of digital technologies off from my Amazons and Google's of the World, Netflix and others they have created this mind set off instant customer gratification, and we all been trained for it. So what was acceptable five years ago is no longer acceptable in our own lives, I e. And so this new standard off instant result instant outcome. Instant respond. Instant delivery V. Just expected. Right. Once you're end, consumer begins to do that. We as a business is no longer have a choice that's writing on the wall. And so what? This new platform Zehr doing like you'd be emcee. Hellickson automation anywhere is delivering their instant gratification. And when you think about it, more and more of the new customers that are millennials, they don't know any other way. So for them, this is the only experience they will relate. Oh, so again, this is not nice to see Oh, it is. But it is the only way only the world will operate, right? >>Well, what we're trying to do is take on new classes of customer experience, new operational opportunities to improve our profitability, innovate and find new value propositions. But you mentioned time arrival rate of transaction is no longer predictable. It's gonna be defined by the market, not by your employees. We could go on and on and on with that. What is taught us a little bit about automation anywhere and what automation anywhere is doing to try to ensure that as businesses go off to attend to the complexity creates new value at the same time can introduce simplicity where they could get scale and more automation. >>Sure, you earlier mentioned that with explosion of data came the explosion off applications And what? Let me focus on what problem or permission anywhere solves. If you look at large organizations, they have vast amount of applications, sometimes 408 100 few 1000 what we have seen. What we've been doing historically is using people as a human bridges between this applications. And we have a prettier that way for too long. And that's the world today. >>So humans are the interface >>humans at the bridges between applications and often called the salty air operations. That's the easiest way to describe it. So the what are two mission ever does is it offers this technology platform robotic process automation area in an Arctic split form that integrates all off it together into a seamless automation bought that can go across and with the eye it can make intelligent, intelligent choices. Um, and so now take that Combined with the BMC, Alex, and you have a seamless service platform that can deliver superior experience. >>So we've got now these swivel chair users now being software, which means that we could discover them more easily. We can monitor them more easily, and that feeds. He looks >>absolutely so you know, in our consumer wall, in a day to day life We are used to a certain experience of how we consume data or consume experiences with our TVs and all the channels that experience that we have an identity. Life is what people expect when they walk into the company, right walking to the Enterprise, which every IittIe organization is trying to figure out. How do they get to that level of maturity? So this is what the combination of what we're doing with Felix and automation anywhere brewing's that consumer great experiences into an enterprise >>world. Some here when we think about our p A. We're applying it in interesting and innovative ways, no question about it. But there are certain patterns of success. Give us some visibility into what you are seeing leads to success. And then what's the future of our P? A. How's that gonna involve over the next few years? >>Sure. Um, R P has been deployed across virtually every industry and virtually every department, so there are many ways to get started in All of them are right. But often we find is that you can either start in a central organization where in terror organization is doing everything centrally. It is a great way to get started. But eventually we learned that the Federated Way is the best way to end where hundreds of offices all over the world, if you are especially large organization, each business unit is doing it with I t providing governments and central security and policies and an actual bots running and being implemented all over the world eventually for a large gilt transformation. That is a common pattern we have seen among successful customers. >>And where do you think this is? Houses pattern going to evolve as enterprises gained more familiarity with it, innovating new and interesting ways and his automation anywhere, and others advance the state of the art. Where do you think it's gonna end up? >>The read is going is is I define it as an app store experience or a Google play experience. So if you think about how we operate over mobile devices today, if you want something on your device, you would look for a nap that does that. We're getting to a point where there is bought for everything in a digital worker for everything. So if you need certain job done, you first go to a what store? Uh that is an automation anywhere website. Look for about that. Does something higher or download that Bart. Get the work done and it comes pre built. Like many. There are works with BMC Felix on many of those, So s. So that is your 1st 1st way you will look, look for getting your work done in a new body economy. And if it if there's no but available, then you look for other options. It will transform how we work and how we think of >>work. In many respects, it's the gig economy with perfect contractor, and it's that leads to some very in string challenges. Ultimately, we start thinking about service Is so Ni aki based on what me here just talked about. Where does digital service is go as our P A joins other classes of users in creating those new experiences at new Prophet points and new value propositions, >>it becomes a competitive. How you provide that service can become a big competitive sensation for financial institutions. For telcos, which is a service industry, right, you're providing that service and, like two meters point, then the user hits that switch. They expect the light to come on If I'm an end user, that consumer warning a service from my telco provider, all from my, um, financial institution. I expect that service to be instantaneous at the highest accuracy accuracy at which super wide is gonna start driving competitor, official for financial institutions of financial institution Telco two Telco and that So I C companies, differentiating and really surviving are thriving in the long term. >>It's no longer becoming something that's nice to have its jacks or better in business, too. >>That's right. And the demo of the live demo that we saw today was really impressive because it sure that what would have taken a few days to happen now happens in three minutes. Right? It is, which is, which is almost the time it takes to call an uber. You know, when interpreters begin to do work at a pace that what you call an uber that's that's that's the future. Yes, it's here. >>Yes, so do I mean the demo that we do the entire enter and demo to request additional storage and being able to provisional remediating issues that we see predict cost and make it available to the end user develop whoever it is is asking for it in minutes. Alright, which used to take days and days. No, no, no, not to mention sometimes in pixels. >>It's typically done faster at scale, with greater reliability. Greater greater security, Certainly greater predictability, et cetera. All right. Here. Shukla, CEO of automation Anywhere. Yeah. Kenny, our president off the dental Service is and operations management division at BMC. Thanks both of you for being on the Cube. >>Thank you. >>Thank you. >>Once again, I'm Peter Burress and I want to thank you for participating in this cube conversation from Santa Clara Marriott at B M sees helix immersion days until next time.

>> From the SiliconANGLE Media office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a Cube Conversation here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome to our program a first time guest, Larry Biagini, who is the Chief Technology Evangelist at Zscaler. Also had a long career at GE. Your last position there you were the Chief Technology Officer. Larry thanks so much for joining me, pleasure to me you. >> Thanks for having us. All right so you know before we get into some of your background at GE tell us a little bit... Zscaler, we've got some familiarity with the team. We've had some of the executives, many of the customers on our program. Tell us what part you do at Zscaler. >> So when I left GE after about 26 years, I was a Zscaler customer. Very early Zscaler customer at GE. And one of the things that intrigued me about GE and one of the things about Zscaler I learned with working with them is that they're vision for security and my vision for security and agility of organizations going forward were an easy match. That made a transition very simple, I was gone from GE for four weeks, that was my retirement before I got recruited into Zscaler and the reason it was a good match is I had big company experience. I had a very good network of people that are operating in large companies and Zscaler needed those connections. But we also had a product that was mature but we had a message that we had to get across to these folks. So it was a message that was real to me, a message that mattered to what Zscaler need to put out there, and that's why I'm the Chief Technology Evangelist. I spend my time with customers, with prospects. Just understanding what they're going through. Using my experience at GE and my experience with other customers to help them through that, and that's the role that I play. >> Yeah I know my time when I worked on the vendor side working with customers being in briefing centers working with them were some of the most gratifying for me. Cause it was you know helping them through what they were working on. Bring a C.E.O. in -- you no longer work for GE but give us a little bit of the background as to you know what gave you some of the skills and some of the scars to help customers that are now going through these journeys. >> The story really starts when I was asked to become the Chief Risk Officer for IT for GE. I was the CIO of the largest business at the time. But GE was going through a transformation or wanted to go through a transformation. They recognized that digital was an opportunity for them and could also be a threat, but at the same time security was not enabling the organization it was sort of disabling it. It was in the way. Now I had no security background at the time it was mostly in architecture and applications. I'd run the data centers but I was very familiar with security and what it was supposed to do and what it actually was doing. So one of the first things we looked at is why we were doing what we were doing. And the reality is ten years ago it made sense doing what we were doing which was protecting the network because everything was in the network. The users were in the network, the data was in the network, The applications were in the network and if you protect the network by definition or by default you're protecting everything else. But when we started seeing behaviors that's not the way people were acting. There was more and more traffic going directly to internet. Whether it be for personal use or for business use more and more business use. The mobile workforce and I just don't mean mobile devices the workforce itself was mobile, where we were out in the field. That's where you make money, it's when you're with customers, when you're selling. So this notion of protecting the network allows you to protect apps, users, and data actually is a fallacy. But we continue to do it because that was the problem we had to solve ten, fifteen years ago. The problem changed with the introduction of cloud, with the introduction of mobility. With end users getting much much smarter about how they can use technology without actually needing IT. You know we used to say that everybody's their own CIO at this point. They have their own devices they have their own networks, they have their own apps. Our job is still to secure them but not get in the way of them. >> Yeah we know back in the old days it was physical things that I could wrap my arms around and if I could lock a door, or you know build the moat as we talked about in the industry, that was great but the surface area just keeps increasing. Cloud pushed it that way. Edge is pushing it you know order of magnitudes even more. So it's interesting I think you know when we talked about cloud adoption, security was originally "Oh it's a reason why I might not go to the cloud," and then it was like "Wait, its a new opportunity for it." To be honest digital transformations I haven't heard as much discussion about thee challenges and opportunity's of security there so maybe you can help expand on that a bit. >> So I think what Zscaler does and the notion that I had that made it an easy fit was I always believed or not always believed after I took that role I believed that there had to be something between the user and whereever they wanted to go and we had to put as many services as we could in that. Now we originally thought we could build that ourselves. We couldn't. We didn't have the footprint, we didn't have the scale, even though were a large company at the time. But I always thought that tying a user and a application to a location was a big mistake. And so when I think about digital transformation what I'm really thinking about is safely attaining speed in order to do business in today's world. So you talked about devices. I'd argue that even five years ago most larger organizations could not tell the devices on their network yet we were trying to protect that. Right? They knew the ones they knew about but they didn't know the Raspberry Pi that was plugged in by an engineering guy. Or they didn't know that somebody just put a new machine on the factory floor and it happened to have an IP address. So we were actually kidding ourselves into what we were doing. So I think the cloud actually opened up the eyes of not only the business but opened up the eyes of the IT and security folks that the way -- you can't control the network anymore because you don't own the network -- I'd argue that you haven't for a long time -- and because of that things had to change. I also think that it became -- and I've seen this in my four years with Zscaler -- four years ago security was sort of black and white. Now that the dialogue has changed and more about risk what's really important to my company. The fact of matter is have to admit to my board that I can't protect everything. But I need to protect certain things but you have to tell me what those things are. I can mitigate that risk. I can't do everything to everybody and so I think that's the discussion people are having now. And when in five years ago people would say "Oh Amazon, Azure, GCP, I want to see their security practices, this, that, and the other thing." Now they can't stop things from moving there. They're less concerned about the security practices because they get an attestation of those and things like that. They're more concerned about how their organizations are migrating stuff. Are they migrating the right data? Do they have the right controls around it? So I think the mindset of the CISOs has changed a bit I think the roles of CIO, the CTO, and the CISO have changed. Where the CISO is more risk-averse, The CTO is actually learning how to tie things together rather than build them. And the CIO is focused on data and business opportunities. >> Yeah, Larry maybe you can bring us inside one of the customers or you know a sample of what you're hearing from customers because so many of the things you said really resonate absolutely five years ago was like Cloud, let me get your SLA and let me read trough all of it, and hey can you adjust this for me? Amazon says no. Okay wait I need to adjust to this, but the mantra I hear from my friends in security is security is everyone's responsibility and it is a practice and therefore it needs to be embedded in there not some product or thing that gets bolted on at the end. So how are they coming to that? Is it the CISO? Organizationally, where do these conversations start and fit? >> So every organization is different, so what I'll give you is a sort of combined view of a large organization. Probably two or three large organizations. The first step is adopting the internet as your corporate network. Once you come to that realization that the internet is your corporate network and will continue to be so, then the things that you do change dramatically. And the opportunities that you have change dramatically: from a cost perspective, from a service-delivery perspective, and from an end-user satisfaction perspective. >> So let me ask that for a second, because I have you know, some peers and friends that work at big companies and it feels like there's the corporate network and then I've got my device on the other thing that I use, the public network. Is this embracing the just, "it's there," or do I still have those two separate networks? >> I think where it's going and where the more progressive companies that I deal with are, is that rather than having a corporate network supporting everything, the corporate network will actually shrink. The...only supporting what it needs to support, and will become a destination just like an AWS, or an Azure or GCP. So if you have a corporate network today that's big and wide and flat, it has users, apps, data in it, and your data centers, my view and dealing with, again, some more of the progressive companies is that corporate network will shift to just a data-center network. And it will have no users on it but users will be able to get to it. So you turn yourself into an AWS. Some people call that Hybrid Computing. I call it Hybrid Networking. But the reality is most organizations, large organizations are going to have a hard time getting rid of their data centers in the near future. So they're going to have to be part of this game. And rather than try to extend the current model to wrap around AWS and Azure and the cloud providers, why not change your model what you do control to actually act like that. So my world has the internet as a corporate network, the corporate network as a subset of the internet, no users on the corporate network, all users untrusted on the internet. That's where I think this whole thing goes and that's where the customers that I talk to are headed. >> Okay one of the biggest challenges when you talk about this transformation is usually some of the organizational dynamics there. Maybe walk us through...you talked about we understand everyone's different you know we've seen the CISO greatly elevated to where their role fits into it but you know corporate structure and the average sysadmin and the like, what are they getting rid of, what are they learning, or is it new people coming in? >> The cultural -- I don't want to say "push back" -- but the cultural challenges are real. You know if you've been in this industry... ...I've been in this industry for forty years. You gain certain expertise and you like to get promoted on that expertise, get recognized for that expertise and it's comfortable to deal in that area. So just think if you're a network admin. You know Cisco equipment. You know it really well. You know your Cisco rep really well. And all of this stuff is second nature to you. Now you're asked to tie it, put up a connection between yourself and AWS, a VPC because you're going to move applications out there. And really, you're not a network guy anymore. You are a design guy to help move applications to the cloud. And it's an uncomfortable space to be in. So you can sort of, there's a couple options. You could say, this too shall pass. (And it won't.) That's I think, a losing proposition. I think you can move to a network provider and say, "Look, I'm still a network guy I can do networking." Or you're going to have to find a way to take the skills that you have and the mindset that you have and work in this new environment. Now that's not easy to do and one of the things that some of the large organizations I deal with are doing is they're bringing in people who grew up in this area and they're trying to seed the education of their own people. Because they're good people right? They know the culture, they know the business. They just don't have the skills that they need today so going to training's not going to help them. Doing it by example with people who've done it before is very important. >> All right how about outcomes? Is there anything you can share from your GE experiences or some of the customers you're working through as to kind that high level of what this means now you know is there a success finish line? Or is it a continuing journey? >> I think the success finish line is actually doing what you're supposed to do for the organization without actually anybody knowing it. Not being in the way. So from my perspective its end users or be they customers, suppliers, internal people, being able to do their job in a frictionless manner but you being able to do your job and the security side is protecting them and the network side, it's making sure they're getting the best user experience out there. And the CIO side is that they're using the best tools for the job. That's it for me. I'm tired, and I have been tired and I don't think it's right for the people that we provide technology or technology solutions to choose our technology as a last technology of choice. But they'd really like to use something else? We should give them that flexibility if it meets the risk appetite of the organization. So to me it's end user satisfaction is the most important thing because that allows you to do your job. Dissatisfied users will always find a way around whatever you put in their way. And that's not good for them, not good for the organization. So that's it for me. >> Great you've been now with Zscaler for four years, tell what's changed in the landscape. Security? You said to board-level discussion absolutely, something we hear, comment I've made is it went from kind of top of mind, bottom of budget, to, you know, no, this is something that actually you're not going to put it off for another quarter or year, you're going to take care of it now. >> So I actually think it's kind of counter-intuitive, what changed...is that I believe that five years ago, security was top of mind and there was a boatload of money thrown at it and that money got spent but nobody was able to prove that they were any more secure than the next guy. The metrics weren't there. I mean if you can't define what your network is, how can you stand in front of your board and say my network is... And so I think there's been a questioning of, are we spending enough on security but not only enough, are we spending it the right areas? Because what we've been doing sort of doesn't make me feel any better. You know, sure we meet our regulatory requirements but that's compliance, that's not security. So I think people are actually questioning, are we doing the right things for the business that we're in today versus the business that we were in in the past? And do we have the right conversation going with the board? Versus a red-yellow-green chart about here's how we think we're secure. And I think that's made a big difference. And I also think the discussion around where information resides and how important that information is and then ultimately how well you mitigate any risk to it, is the most relevant conversation that happens today. It's not, I'm not going to ignore ransomware and things like that but its not "Oh my God I'm getting attacked a million times a day." It's "Do I have something that's of value to somebody else and it will kill me as an organization or hurt me drastically if I lose it." And if I don't know where it is I'm probably going to lose it. Either deliberately or by mistake. So do I have those right controls in place? >> Yeah I'd love to get your commentary, there are certain companies out there that they have the message, you know, security's broken, we need a do-over, you know, the latest- -and-greatest software-defined cloud-based something or other isn't going to solve it, but you know, you've been in this space for decades, so you know where are we as a industry with security today, you feel that we're making progress? Sounds like it. >> I do feel that we're making progress. I think as an industry we recognize that the problem exists, and the problem that exists today is different from the problem that is existed seven, eight, ten, even fifteen years ago, that's number one. Number two is the competitive landscape of companies out that are huge today versus the companies that were huge ten years ago. It's a much different landscape. And these are all what I would call digital companies. They found a way to use information. You know things like Airbnb. It's an information business is all it is. And it's not a Marriott, it's not a Hilton, but it's a competitor to those guys. And I think that's a realization that business are having and that's filtering down into the IT organizations. You know ,we see a lot of companies -- which I don't necessarily agree with -- hiring Chief Digital Officers in addition to Chief Information Officers. And I see that as a bifurcation of the CIO as a back-room office guy and the CDO now is customer-facing. I think this whole thing has to be customer-facing and take advantage of the tools that are out there whether you provide them or whether you get them from somebody else, in a secure and safe enough manner that your business feels comfortable operating. So that's what's changed, I don't think it's...even the hardcore security guys, you know, we've had a lot of breaches in the past. Every one of those breaches, everyone had a firewall, everyone had a proxy. Everybody had all the tools that everybody else had and nobody could prevent those breaches. I think the fact of the matter is you want to prevent the harm of a breach occurring versus spending all your time making sure your breach doesn't occur. So I think that's a different mindset. >> Larry, I want to give you the final word. We've been going through this series of the digial cloud transformation, give us your final take away. >> So I don't like digital transformation as a word I think it's been overused. I think businesses are changing and adapting to what the opportunities and risks are today. With that, the whole organization has to face into that and say "This is where we can win, this is where we have to be good enough, and this is what's dragging us down." And they have to address all of them. I think in order to do that, one thing that an IT organization has to do is head-on, face its legacy debt. You can't play in this world with legacy debt. And if you don't start now, five years from now you're still going to be complaining about it. It's like that old, you know, Chinese proverb, when was the best time to plant a tree? One hundred years ago. When's the second best time? Today. If you don't address your legacy with your board head-on, your business will lose. That's number one. Number two is, don't go it alone. Get the talent who's done this before. This is not moving from, you know, from Cobalt, to C, to C++. This isn't an incremental change. Fundamentally the way that the cloud works in a way that your corporate network will work once its the internet, is fundamentally different than anything we've done before. Take advantage of people who've done it. Use that to seed your organization's growth. And then finally, there's no stopping this train. There's nothing that's going to happen cataclysmically that's going to stop this. On the other hand don't throw out the baby with the bath water, because most organizations as I said earlier are still going to have legacy applications in their data center. Just make them look as if they're modern applications, and it's a win for everybody. >> Larry Biagini, thank you so much for sharing all of your history and your customers' journeys. >> Thanks for having me. >> All right and thank you as always for watching theCUBE, I'm Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum, World 2019 brought to you by the M Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, Welcome back, everyone to the Cubes Live coverage of the Emerald 2019. I'm John Career with Lycos Day, Volante Dave. 10 years covering the Q Weird Mosconi and 2010 boy Lots changed, but >> it's still the >> platform that Palmer Ritz laid out. But the stuff filling in 10 years later. >> Okay, you call that software mainframe and Robin came in so I can't call Mainframe Way >> Have leaders from PM Wears Largest business unit. The Cloud Platform Business Kid Colbert to CTO and Christmas R S v P and General Manager Guys, Thanks for coming on The key. Appreciate. >> Yeah, that's for having us. The >> world's your business units smoking hot. It's very popular, like you run around doing meetings. Cloud platform is the software model that's 10 years later actually happening at scale. Congratulations. What's the What's the big news? What's the big conversation for you guys? >> Yeah, the biggest news this week is the announcement of project specific, and, um, it's about taking the platform a Jess, um, hundreds of thousands of customers on it and bringing together communities were just now very popular with the developers and that black form together so that operators, on the one hand, can just deal with the platform they love. And the developers can deal with the kubernetes layer that they love. >> It's interesting to watch because, you know, the whole end user computing stack that was laid out 10 years ago is actually happening now, Assassin see, sass business models. We all see the and half of them is on the success of Cloud. But interesting to see kubernetes, which we've been following since the report started. Open stack days. You saw that emerging. Everyone kind of saw that. And it really became a nice layer. And the industry just create as a de facto. Yeah, you guys were actually driving that more forward. So congratulations on that. >> That's sitting it >> natively in V sphere is interesting because you guys spend a ton of time. This is a core product for you guys. So you're bringing something native into V sphere? I'm sure there's a lot of debates internally how to do that, kid. What's that? What is the relevance workers. You guys have a lot of efficiencies and be severe, but bring in kubernetes is gonna give you some new things. What, >> So the thinking is really you know, it's Christmas mentioning. How do we take this proven platform? Move it forward. Customers have moved millions of work clothes on top of the sphere, operate them in production, the Prussian great capabilities, and so they'd be able to be very successful in that. And so the question is, how do we help them move forward in the kubernetes? You know, you mentioned Crew readies is still fairly young, the ecosystem around. It's still somewhat immature, still growing right, and it's a very different environment than what folks are used to who used the sphere. So there's a big challenge that customers have around managing multiple environments. All the training that's different, all the tools that are different so we can actually take their investments. They've already made into V sphere leverage and extend those into the kubernetes world that's really powerful. We'll help our customers take all these millions of workloads and move them forward. It's >> interesting because we were always speculating about being where I started Jerry Chan when he was on yesterday. He's been of'em where since early days, you know, but looking at VM where when they went to their you guys went back to your core When we be cloud air kind of win its way and then you deal them is on since the stock price has been going great, So great chair older takeover value there. But you got clarity around what cloud was. And as you look at the operator target audience, you guys have the operators and the devil and ops is critical. So you guys have been operating a lot of work, Liz and I think this is fascinating. So the role of containers is super relevant because you got V EMS and containers. So again, the debate continues. >> Well, I think >> Tainer is wrong. Where Bond, It's interesting conversation because kubernetes is orchestrating all that >> while the snarky treat tweet Oh day and you guys feel free to come. It was Oh, I thought we started launch pivotal. So we didn't have to run containers on virtual machines. Yeah, we know that people run containers on bare metal. They run containers and virtual machines, but >> yeah, It's a debate that that we hear pop up on the on the snarky Twitter feeds and so forth. We'll talk to customers about it. You know, this whole VM versus container debate, I think, really misses the point because it's not really about that. What it's about is how do I actually operate? These were close in production, right? This kind of this three pillows we talk about build, run, manage. Custer's want to accelerate that They won't do that with enterprise, great capabilities with security. And so that's where it really gets challenging. And I think you know, we've built this amazing ecosystem around desire to achieve that. And so that's what we're taking forward here. And, yes, the fact that we're using fertilization of the covers, that's an implementation detail. Almost. What's more, valuables? All the stuff above that the manageability, the operational capabilities. That's a real problem. It seems to >> me, to the business impact because, okay, people going to go to the cloud, they're gonna build cloud native acts. But you've got all these incumbent companies trying not to get disrupted to trying to find new opportunities, playing offense and defense at the same time, they need tooling to be able to do that. They don't want to take their e r p ap and stick it in the cloud, right? They want to modernize it. And you know you're not gonna build that overnight in the cloud anyway, so they need help. >> That's the the key move that we made here. If you if you think about it, customers don't have kubernetes experts right today and most of them in their journey to the mortar naps. They're saying, Hey, we need to set up two stacks. At least we are if we immerse stack that we love. And now communities are developers laws. So we have to stand up and they don't have any in house experts to do that right? And with this one move, we have actually collapsed it back to one stack. >> Yeah, I think it's a brilliant move. Actually, it's brilliant because the Dev ops ethos has proven everyone wants to be there, all right. And the question is, who's leading? Who is lagging? So ops has traditionally lagged. If you look at it from the developer standpoint, you guys have not been lagging on the we certainly have tons of'em virtualization been standardized. Its unifying. Yeah, the two worlds together, and it really as we've been calling it cloud two point. Oh, because if you look at what hybrid really is, it's cloud two point. Oh, yeah. Cloud one data was Dev Ops Storage and compute Amazon. You're born in the cloud. We we have no I t department 50 people. Why would we ever and developers are the operators? Yeah, so we shall. Enterprise scale. It's not that easy. So I love to get your thoughts on how you guys would frame the cloud two point. Oh, Visa vi. If cloud one does storage and compute and Amazon like scale, what is cloud to point out to you? >> Yeah, well, I think so. Let's talk about the cloud journey. I think that's what you're getting at here. So here's how it discuss it with customers. You are where you are today. You have your existing apse. A lot of them are monolithic. You're slow to update. Um, you know, so forthright. And then you have some of the cloud NATO nirvana over here. We're like everything's re architected. It's Micro Service's got all these containers off, so >> it doesn't run my business >> well, yeah, well, that's what I want to get to. I think the challenge, the challenge is it's a huge amount of effort to get there, right, All the training we're talking about, all the tooling and the all the changes there, and people tend to look at. This is a very binary thing, right that you're there. Here where you are, you're in the club, New Nirvana. People don't often talk about what's in the middle and the fact that it's a spectrum. And I think what we used to get a V M, where is like, let's meet customers where they are, You know, I think one of the big realizations we had, it's not. Everyone needs to get every single application on this far side over here. Some halfs, your pieces, whatever you know, it's fine to get them a little bit of the way there, and so one of the things that we saw with the M A coordinated us, for example, was that people there was a pent up demand to move to the public cloud. But it was challenging because to go from a visa environment on Prem to an eight of US native environment to change a bunch of things that tooling changes like the environment a little bit different, but with a mark, our native us, there's no modifications at all. You just little evey motion it. And some people have you motioning things like insanely fast now, without modifying the half you can't get you know something you have to suddenly better scalable. But you get other cloud benefits. You get things like, Oh, my infrastructure is dynamic. I can add host dynamically only pay for what I need. Aiken consume this as a service. And so we help moving. We have to move there. There were clothes a little bit in the middle of the spectrum there, and I think what we're doing with Project Pacific and could realise is the same thing. They start taking advantage of these great kubernetes capabilities for their existing APs without modification. So again, kind of moving them further in that middle spectrum and then, you know, for the absolute really make a difference to their business. They can put in the effort to get all the way over there, >> and we saw that some of the evidence of some challenges of that shiny new trend within the dupe ecosystem. Big data objects to army. Who doesn't love that concept, right? Yeah, map produced. But what happened was is that the infrastructure costs on the personnel human capital cost was so massive that and then cloud cloud came along and >> just go out. There is also the other point about just just just a bespoke tooling that >> technology, right, Then the disruptions to create, you know to that, then the investments that it takes. Two >> you had a skill and you had a skills gap in terms of people have been. So that brings us back to So how do you address that problem? Because most of the audience out here, not developers. Yeah. Yeah. Total has the developers connection. So >> this is one of the really cool things about Pacific that what we've done with Pacific when you look at it from an I T. Operations, one of you that person sees v sphere the tool they already know and use understand it. Well, when a developer looks at it, they see kubernetes. And so this is two different viewpoints. Got like, you know, the blind men around the elephant. But, um but the thing is is actually a singular thing in the back end, right? You know, they have these two different views. And so the cool thing about us, we can actually bring items and developers together that they can use their own language tools process. But there's a common thing that they're talking about. They have common visibility into that, and that's super, super powerful. And when you look at, it also is happening on the kubernetes side is fully visible in the V's here side. So all these tools that already work against the sphere suddenly light up and support kubernetes automatically. So again, without any work, we suddenly get so much more benefit. >> And the category Buster's, they're going on to that. You're changing your taking software approach that your guys No, you're taking it to the software developer world. It's kind of changing the game. One of things. I want to get your thoughts on Cloud to point out because, you know, if computing storage was cloud one dato, we're seeing networking and security and data becoming critical ingredients that are problems statement areas people are working on. Certainly networking you guys are in that. So as cloud chip one is gonna take into the fact that messy middle between, you know, I'm on here and then I want the Nirvana, as always, the origination story and the outcomes and stories. Always great. But the missing messy middle. As you were pointing out, it's hard. How do you guys? >> And if you look at the moves that we made in the Do You know about the big fusion acquisition that remained right, which happened, like a month ago, and it was about preparing the platform, our foray I animal or clothes? So really, what we're trying to do is really make sure that the history of platform is ready for the modern applications, right? I am along one side communities applications, you know, service oriented applications. All of them can land on the same platform and more and more. Whether it's the I am l or other application, they're being written on top of communities that structures code. Yeah, nothing like Jenna's well, so enable incriminating will help us land all the modern applications on top of the same platform that our customers are used to. So it's a huge kind of a inflection point in the industry from my >> wealthy earlier point, every CEO I talked to said, I want to get from point A to point B and I wanna spend a billion dollars to get there. I don't wanna have to hire some systems integrator and outsource to get any there. Show me how I get without, you know, destroying my >> business. How did we meet the customers where they're at, right? Like what? The problem with this, the kind of either or model you're here you're there is that there's a huge opportunity costs. And again, Well, if you will just need a little bit of goodness, they don't need the full crazy nirvana Goodness right? And so we enable them to get that very easily in automated way, right? If you'd just been any time re factoring or thinking through this app that takes months or even a year or more, and so you know that this the speed that we can unleash her The velocity for these customers is >> the benefit of that. Nirvana is always taken out of context because people look at the outcome over over generations and saying, Well, I want to be there but it all starts with a very variable basis in shadow. I used to call it, but don't go in the cloud and do something really small, simple. And then why? This is much more official. I like this stack or this approach. That's ultimately how it gets there. So I got to get I got to get that point for infrastructures code because this is what you're enabling. Envies, fearful when I see I want to get your reaction. This because the world used to be. And I ask Elsa on this years ago, and he kind of validated it. But because he's old school, Intel infrastructure dictated to the applications what it could do based on what it could do. Now it's flipped upside down with cloud platform platform and implies enabling something enabling platform. Whatever you call the APs are dictating for the infrastructure. I need this. That's infrastructure is code. That's kind of what you're saying is that >> I mean, look kubernetes broader pattern time. It said, Hey, I can declare what I want, right, and then the system will take care of it and made in that state. I decided state execution is what it brought to the table, and the container based abs, um, have already been working that way. What this announcement does with Project Pacific is that the BM applications that our customers built in the past they are going to be able to take advantage of the same pattern, just the infrastructure escort declarative and decide state execution That that's going to happen even for the old workload, said our customer service >> and they still do viens. I mean, they're scaled 1000 the way >> they operate the same pattern. I >> mean, Paul Morris doesn't get enough credit for the comedy made in 2010. He called it the hardened top. Do you really care what's underneath if it's working effectively? >> Well, I mean, I think you know the reality today is that even though containers that get all get a lot of coverage and attention, most were close to being provisioned. New workloads even are being provisioning v EMS, right? If you look at AWS, the public clouds, I mean, is the E c to our ah go compute engine. Those service's those VM so once they're getting heavily used. And so the way we look at it, if we want to support everything. And it's just going to give customers a bunch of tools in their tool box. And let's put on used the right tool for the right job. Right? That's what the mentality >> that's really clouds. You know, Chris, I want to get your you know, I want to nail you down on the definition of two point. Uh, what is your version? Come on. We keep dodging around, get it out. Come on. >> I think we touched on all aspects of it. Which one is the interesting, less court allowing the consumer of the cloud to be able to dictate the environment in which the applications will operate and the consumer is defining it or the developers to defining it. In this case, that, to me, is the biggest shift that we have gone through in the Colorado. Yeah, and we're just making our platform come to life to support >> that. We're taking the cube serving. We'll put all together, and we want the community to define it, not us. What does it explain? The honest what it means to be a project and has a project Get into it. An offering? >> I mean, so Project Pacific is vey sphere, right? I mean, this is a massive, rethinking re architecture of Easter. Like pretty much every major subsystem component within Visa has been updated with this effort. Um, what we're doing here is what we've technically announced is actually what we call a technical preview. So saying, Hey, this is technology we're working on. We think it's really interesting We want to share with the public, get the public's feedback, you know, figure out a way on the right direction or not. We're not making any commitment, releasing it or any time frames yet. Um, but so part of that needed a name, right? And so because it is easier, but it's a specific thing. We're doing the feast here, so that's where the project comes from. I think it also gives that, you know, this thing has been a huge effort internally, right? There's a lot of work that's gone into it. So you know, it has some heft and deserves a name Min itself. >> It's Dev Ops to pointed. Your reds bring in. You making your infrastructure truly enable program out from amble for perhaps a tsunami. >> The one thing I would say is we wouldn't announce it as a project if it was not coming soon. I mean, we still are in the process. Getting feedback will turn it on or not. But it it's not something that is way out. Then it's It is going to come. >> It's a clear direction. It's a statement of putting investment into his code and going on to course correct. Get some feedback at exactly. But it's pretty obvious you can go a lot of pain. Oh, yeah, isn't easy button for combat. He's >> easy on the >> future. I think it's a great move. Congratulations. We're big fans of kubernetes. So the guys last night having a little meeting Marriott thinking up the next battle plans for game plan for you guys. So, yeah, I >> thought this is just the tip of the iceberg. We had a lot of really, really cool stuff we're doing. >> We're gonna be following the cloud platform. Your progress? Certainly. Recovering. Cloud two point. Oh, looking at these new categories that are emerging again. The end state is Dev Ops Program ability. Apple cases, the Cube coverage, 10th year covering VM world. We're in the lobby of Mosconi in San Francisco. I'm John Favorite Day Volonte. Thanks for watching

>> Announcer: From Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS IMAGINE Nonprofit. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in the waterfront in Seattle, Washington, it's absolutely gorgeous here the last couple of days. We're here for the AWS IMAGINE Nonprofit event. We were here a couple weeks ago for the education event, now they have a whole separate track for nonprofits, and what's really cool about nonprofits is these people, these companies are attacking very, very big, ugly problems. It's not advertising, it's not click here and get something, these are big things, and one of the biggest issues is human trafficking. You probably hear a lot about it, it's way bigger than I ever thought it was, and we're really excited to have an expert in the field that, again, is using the power of AWS technology as well as their organization to help fight this cause. And we're excited to have Brad Myles, he is the CEO of Polaris and just coming off a keynote, we're hearing all about your keynote. So Brad, first off, welcome. >> Yeah, well thank you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so Polaris, give us a little bit about kind of what's the mission for people that aren't familiar with the company. >> Yeah, so Polaris, we are a nonprofit that works full-time on this issue. We both combat the issue and try to get to long-term solutions, and respond to the issue and restore freedom to survivors by operating the National Human Trafficking Hotline for the United States, so, it's part kind of big data and long-term solutions, and it's part responding to day-to-day cases that break across the country every day. >> Right, in preparing for this interview and spending some time on the site there was just some amazing things that just jump right off the page. 24.9 million people are involved in this. Is that just domestically here in the States, or is that globally? >> That's a global number. So when you're thinking about human trafficking, think about three buckets. The first bucket is any child, 17 or younger, being exploited in the commercial sex trade. The second bucket is any adult, 18 or over, who's in the sex trade by force, fraud, or coercion. And the third bucket is anyone forced to work in some sort of other labor or service industry by force, fraud, or coercion. So you've got the child sex trafficking bucket, you've got the adult sex trafficking bucket, and then you've got all the labor trafficking bucket, right? You add up those three buckets globally, that's the number that the International Labour Organization came out and said 25 million around the world are those three buckets in a given year. >> Right, and I think again, going through the website, some of the just crazy discoveries, it's the child sex trafficking you can kind of understand that that's part of the problem, the adult sex trafficking. But you had like 25 different human trafficking business models, I forget the term that was used, for a whole host of things well beyond just the sex trade. It's a very big and unfortunately mature industry. >> Totally, yeah, so we, so the first thing that we do that we're kind of known for is operating the National Human Trafficking Hotline. The National Human Trafficking Hotline leads to having a giant data set on trafficking, it's 50,000 cases of trafficking that we've worked on. So then we analyzed that data set and came to the breakthrough conclusion that there are these 25 major forms, and almost any single call that we get in to the National Hotline is going to be one of those 25 types. And once you know that then the problem doesn't seem so overwhelming, it's not, you know, thousands of different types, it's these 25 things, so, it's 18 labor trafficking types and seven sex trafficking types. And it enables a little bit more granular analysis than just saying sex trafficking or labor trafficking which is kind of too broad and general. Let's get really specific about it, we're talking about these late night janitors, or we're talking about these people in agriculture, or we're talking about these women in illicit massage businesses. It enables the conversation to get more focused. >> Right, it's so interesting right, that's such a big piece of the big data trend that we see all over the place, right? It used to be, you know, you had old data, a sample of old data that you took an aggregate of and worked off the averages. And now, because of big data, and the other tools that we have today, now actually you can work on individual cases. So as you look at it from a kind of a big data point of view, what are some of the things that you're able to do? And that lead directly to, everyone's talking about the presentation that you just got off of, in terms of training people to look for specific behaviors that fit the patterns, so you can start to break some of these cases. >> Exactly, so, I think that the human trafficking field risks being too generic. So if you're just saying to the populace, "Look for trafficking, look for someone who's scared." People are like, that's not enough, that's too vague, it's kind of slipping through my fingers. But if you say, "In this particular type of trafficking, "with traveling magazine sales crews, "if someone comes to your door "trying to sell you a magazine with these specific signs." So now instead of talking about general red flag indicators across all 25 types, we're coming up with red flag indicators for each of the 25 types. So instead of speaking in aggregate we're getting really specific, it's almost like specific gene therapy. And the data analysis on our data set is enabling that to happen, which makes the trafficking field smarter, we could get smarter about where victims are recruited from, we could get smarter about intervention points, and we could get smarter about where survivors might have a moment to kind of get help and get out. >> Right, so I got to dig into the magazine salesperson, 'cause I think we've all had the kid-- >> Brad: Have you had a kid come to you yet? >> Absolutely, and you know, you think first they're hustlin' but their papers are kind of torn up, and they've got their little certificate, certification. How does that business model work? >> Yeah, so that's one of the 25 types, they're called mag crews. There was a New York Times article written by a journalist named Ian Urbina who really studied this and it came out a number of years ago. Then they made a movie about it called "American Honey," if you watch with a number of stars. But essentially this is a very long-standing business model, it goes back 30 or 40 years of like the door-to-door salesperson, and like trying to win sympathy from people going to door-to-door sales. And then these kind of predatory groups decided to prey on disaffected U.S. citizen youth that are kind of bored, or are kind of working a low-wage job. And so they go up to these kids and they say, "Tired of working at the Waffle House? "Well why don't you join our crew and travel the country, "and party every night, and you'll be outdoors every day, "and it's coed, you get to hang out with girls, "you get to hang out with guys, "we'll drink every night and all you have to do "is sell magazines during the day." And it's kind of this alluring pitch, and then the crews turn violent, and there's sometimes quotas on the crew, there's sometimes coercion on the crew. We get a lot of calls from kids who are abandoned by the crew. Where the crew says, "If you act up "or if you don't adhere to our rules, "we'll just drive away and leave you in this city." >> Wherever. >> Is the crews are very mobile they have this whole language, they call it kind of jumping territory. So they'll drive from like Kansas City to a nearby state, and we'll get this call from this kid, they're like, "I'm totally homeless, my crew just left me behind "because I kind of didn't obey one of the rules." So a lot of people, when they think of human trafficking they're not thinking of like U.S. citizen kids knocking on your door. And we're not saying that every single magazine crew is human trafficking, but we are saying that if there's force, and coercion, and fraud, and lies, and people feel like they can't leave, and people feel like they're being coerced to work, this is actually a form of human trafficking of U.S. citizen youth which is not very well-known but we hear about it on the Hotline quite a lot. >> Right, so then I wonder if you could tell us more about the Delta story 'cause most of the people that are going to be watching this interview weren't here today to hear your keynote. So I wonder if you can explain kind of that whole process where you identified a specific situation, you train people that are in a position to make a difference and in fact they're making a big difference. >> Yeah. So the first big report that we released based on the Hotline data was the 25 types, right? We decided to do a followup to that called Intersections, where we reached out to survivors of trafficking and we said, "Can you tell us about "the legitimate businesses that your trafficker used "while you were being trafficked?" And all these survivors were like, "Yeah, sure, "we'll tell you about social media, "we'll tell you about transportation, "we'll tell you about banks, "we'll tell you about hotels." And so we then identified these six major industries that traffickers use that are using legitimate companies, like rental car companies, and airlines, and ridesharing companies. So then we reached out to a number of those corporate partners and said, "You don't want this stuff on your services, right?" And Delta really just jumped at this, they were just like, "We take this incredibly seriously. "We want our whole workforce trained. "We don't want any trafficker to feel like "they can kind of get away with it on our flights. "We want to be a leader in transportation." And then they began taking all these steps. Their CEO, Ed Bastian, took it very seriously. They launched a whole corporate-wide taskforce across departments, they hosted listening sessions with survivor leaders so survivors could coach them, and then they started launching this whole strategy around training their flight attendants, and then training their whole workforce, and then supporting the National Human Trafficking Hotline, they made some monetary donations to Polaris. We get situations on the Hotline where someone is in a dangerous situation and needs to be flown across the country, like an escape flight almost, and Delta donated SkyMiles for us to give to survivors who are trying to flee a situation, who needs a flight. They can go to an airport and get on a flight for free that will fly them across the country. So it's almost like a modern day Underground Railroad, kind of flying people on planes. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> So they've just been an amazing partner, and they even then took the bold step of saying, "Well let's air a PSA on our flights "so the customer base can see this." So when you're on a Delta flight you'll see this PSA about human trafficking. And it just kept going and going and going. So it's now been about a five-year partnership and lots of great work together. >> And catching bad guys. >> Yeah, I mean, their publicity of the National Human Trafficking Hotline has led to a major increase in calls. Airport signage, more employees looking for it, and I actually do believe that the notion of flying, if you're going to be a trafficker, flying on a Delta flight is now a much more harrowing experience because everyone's kind of trained, and eyes and ears are looking. So you're going to pivot towards another airline that hasn't done that training yet, which now speaks to the need that once one member of an industry steps up, all different members of the industry need to follow suit. So we're encouraging a lot of the other airlines to do similar training and we're seeing some others do that, which is great. >> Yeah, and how much of it was from the CEO, or did he kind of come on after the fact, or was there kind of a champion catalyst that was pushing this through the organization, or is that often the case, or what do you find in terms of adoption of a company to help you on your mission? >> That's a great question. I mean, the bigger picture here is trafficking is a $150 billion industry, right? A group of small nonprofits and cops are not going to solve it on their own. We need the big businesses to enter the fight, because the big businesses have the resources, they have the brand, they have the customer base, they have the scale to make it a fair fight, right? So in the past few years we're seeing big businesses really enter the fight against trafficking, whether or not that's big data companies like AWS, whether or not that's social media companies, Facebook, whether or not that's hotel companies, like Wyndham and Marriott, airlines like Delta. And that's great because now the big hitters are joining the trafficking fight, and it happens in different ways, sometimes it's CEO-led, I think in the case of Delta, Ed Bastian really does take this issue very seriously, he was hosting events on this at his home, he's hosted roundtables of other CEOs in the Atlanta area like UPS, and Chick-fil-A, and Home Depot, and Coca-Cola, all those Atlanta-based CEOs know each other well, he'll host roundtables about that, and I think it was kind of CEO-led. But in other corporations it's one die hard champion who might be like a mid-level employee, or a director, who just says, "We really got to do this," and then they drive more CEO attention. So we've seen it happen both ways, whether or not it's top-down, or kind of middle-driven-up. But the big picture is if we could get some of the biggest corporations in the world to take this issue seriously, to ask questions about who they contract with, to ask questions about what's in their supply chain, to educate their workforce, to talk about this in front of their millions of customers, it just puts the fight against trafficking on steroids than a group of nonprofits would be able to do alone. So I think we're in a whole different realm of the fight now that business is at the table. >> And is that pretty much your strategy in terms of where you get the leverage, do you think? Is to execute via a lot of these well-resourced companies that are at this intersection point, I think that's a really interesting way to address the problem. >> Yeah, well, it's back to the 25 types, right? So the strategies depend on type. Like, I don't think big businesses being at the table are necessarily going to solve magazine sales crews, right? They're not necessarily going to solve begging on the street. But they can solve late night janitors that sometimes are trafficked, where lots of big companies are contracting with late night janitorial crews, and they come at 2:00 a.m., and they buff the floors, and they kind of change out the trash, and no one's there in the office building to see those workers, right? And so asking different questions of who you procure contracts with, to say, "Hey, before we contract with you guys, "we're going to need to ask you a couple questions "about where these workers got here, "and what these workers thought they were coming to do, "and we need to ID these workers." The person holding the purse strings, who's buying that contract, has the power to demand the conditions of that contract. Especially in agriculture and large retail buyers. So I think that big corporations, it's definitely part of the strategy for certain types, it's not going to solve other types of trafficking. But let's say banks and financial institutions, if they start asking different questions of who's banking with them, just like they've done with terrorism financing they could wipe out trafficking financing, could actually play a gigantic role in changing the course of how that type of trafficking exists. >> So we could talk all day, I'm sure, but we don't have time, but I'm just curious, what should people do, A, if they just see something suspicious, you know, reach out to one of these kids selling magazines, or begging on the street, or looking suspicious at an airport, so, A, that's the question. And then two, if people want to get involved more generically, whether in their company, or personally, how do they get involved? >> Yeah, so there are thousands of nonprofit groups across the country, Polaris is in touch with 3,000 of them. We're one of thousands. I would say find an organization in your area that you care about and volunteer, get involved, donate, figure out what they need. Our website is polarisproject.org, we have a national Referral Directory of organizations across the country, and so that's one way. The other way is the National Human Trafficking Hotline, the number, 1-888-373-7888. The Hotline depends on either survivors calling in directly as a lifeline, or community members calling in who saw something suspicious. So we get lots of calls from people who were getting their nails done, and the woman was crying and talking about how she's not being paid, or people who are out to eat as a family and they see something in the restaurant, or people who are traveling and they see something that doesn't make, kind of, quite sense in a hotel or an airport. So we need an army of eyes and ears calling tips into the National Human Trafficking Hotline and identifying these cases, and we need survivors to know the number themselves too so that they can call in on their own behalf. We need to respond to the problem in the short-term, help get these people connected to help, and then we need to do the long-term solutions which involves data, and business, and changing business practice, and all of that. But I do think that if people want to kind of educate themselves, polarisproject.org, there are some kind of meta-organizations, there's a group called Freedom United that's kind of starting a grassroots movement against trafficking, freedomunited.org. So lots of great organizations to look into, and this is a bipartisan issue, this is an issue that most people care about, it's one of the top headlines in the newspapers every day these days. And it's something that I think people in this country naturally care about because it references kind of the history of chattel slavery, and some of those forms of slavery that morphed but never really went away, and we're still fighting that same fight today. >> In terms of, you know, we're here at AWS IMAGINE, and they're obviously putting a lot of resources behind this, Teresa Carlson and the team. How are you using them, have you always been on AWS? Has that platform enabled you to accomplish your mission better? >> Yeah, oh for sure, I mean, Polaris crunches over 60 terabytes of data per day, of just like the computing that we're doing, right? >> Jeff: And what types of data are you crunching? >> It's the data associated with Hotline calls, we collect up to 150 variables on each Hotline call. The Hotline calls come in, we have this data set of 50,000 cases of trafficking with very sensitive data, and the protections of that data, the cybersecurity associated with that data, the storage of that data. So since 2017, Polaris has been in existence since 2002, so we're in our 17th year now, but starting three years ago in 2017 we started really partnering with AWS, where we're migrating more of our data onto AWS, building some AI tools with AWS to help us process Hotline calls more efficiently. And then talking about potentially moving our, all of our data storage onto AWS so that we don't have our own server racks in our office, we still need to go through a number of steps to get there. But having AWS at the table, and then talking about the Impact Computing team and this, like, real big data crunching of like millions of trafficking cases globally, we haven't even started talking about that yet but I think that's like a next stage. So for now, it's getting our data stronger, more secure, building some of those AI bots to help us with our work, and then potentially considering us moving completely serverless, and all of those things are conversations we're having with AWS, and thrilled that AWS is making this an issue to the point that it was prioritized and featured at this conference, which was a big deal, to get in front of the whole audience and do a keynote, and we're very, very grateful for that. >> And you mentioned there's so many organizations involved, are you guys doing data aggregation, data consolidation, sharing, I mean there must be with so many organizations, that adds a lot of complexity, and a lot of data silos, to steal classic kind of IT terms. Are you working towards some kind of unification around that, or how does that look in the future? >> We would love to get to the point where different organizations are sharing their data set. We'd love to get to the point where different organizations are using, like, a shared case management tool, and collecting the same data so it's apples to apples. There are different organizations, like, Thorn is doing some amazing big data-- >> Jeff: Right, we've had Thorn on a couple of times. >> How do we merge Polaris's data set with Thorn's data set? We're not doing that yet, right? I think we're only doing baby steps. But I think the AWS platform could enable potentially a merger of Thorn's data with Polaris's data in some sort of data lake, right? So that's a great idea, we would love to get to that. I think the field isn't there yet. The field has kind of been, like, tech-starved for a number of years, but in the past five years has made a lot of progress. The field is mostly kind of small shelters and groups responding to survivors, and so this notion of like infusing the trafficking field with data is somewhat of a new concept, but it's enabling us to think much bigger about what's possible. >> Well Brad, again, we could go on all day, you know, really thankful for what you're doing for a whole lot of people that we don't see, or maybe we see and we're not noticing, so thank you for that, and uh. >> Absolutely. >> Look forward to catching up when you move the ball a little bit further down the field. >> Yeah, thank you for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here. >> All right, my pleasure. He's Brad, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS IMAGINE Nonprofits, thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (futuristic music)

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering magenta. Imagine twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Adobe. >> Hi, Welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with Jeff Rick at Imagine twenty nineteen at the Wind, Los Vegas Talking all about e commerce, innovation and technology. Consumer changes. All that good stuff. Joining us next is Adam Justice, the director of product marketing for the Adobe Experience about Adam. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you for having me. Thank you. >> This is a really high energy event. >> It is >> all days palpable, but I think it might be partly because there's a lot of orange here. It's a pretty energizing color. People have had very interesting entrances and exits on stage, coming from above and below. We've heard a lot of great testimonials from partners, customers, Dobie, folks, the gentle folks. Customer experience is critical to any product. Any service retailer, big or small. So true. Talk to us about you've been with Adobe for a long time. Talk to us about were perspective. The essentials Really good customer experience. Management? >> Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks for the question. It's great to be here, so and don't >> be. We've really >> evolved. I think as sort of the needs and rolls of our customers have. And I think the primary motivator for their evolution has been the customer customer itself. And whereas it used to be enough for us to think about, we're going to provide winning product or a service. All of us can agree, and it's easy for us to, and it's easy for us to agree now because we're all a focus group of one. >> We know what >> we like. We like an experience that actually feels like it's worth having. It's not enough to just put a product or a service out there. It needs to feel like something that actually not only feels natural, but it feels additive to our lives in some way. And so what was once sort of ah, relatively sir straight forward product development process or promotional process now is very much about how we addressing the needs of the consumer in a way that it is holistic, that respects the channels, that they want to interact with our brand on that respects the devices through which they want to either consumer product or research. Our product so it will be, is really trying to sort >> of >> understand the dynamics of the market today and bring solutions to the customers who now have this broader sort of stewardship. And I would say the things that we're seeing that our core to that our first, you're not going to deliver a meaningful experience to a customer unless you understand that customer and understanding that customer largely now comes down to data and a lot of fix will feel like, Well, that certainly seems logical that were awash in data. How do we actually get to the point where the data is telling us the story so we can leverage that information than tell a brand story till some kind of present a compelling experience? And then you add to that the dynamics, obviously right now about and entirely justifiable concerns about my privacy and the regulations there. Adobes going directly at that. With it, it'LL be experienced platform in order to effectively coalesce a meaningful point of view or sort of representation of off the customer in a way that respects their privacy. That un experienced steward can then look at that and say, Not only do I understand who this person is, but I have context and an understanding of what it is they're looking for. What is their intent? What is the context of this interaction now? So I can present a meaningful experience that obviously gets you part of the way. And but then knowing is only half the battle, right? Maybe not even half. Then you actually have to kind of rally around. Well, what, uh, what tools and content do we have at our disposal to ultimately present a compelling experience? You know what it will be? We like to say that emotion is the currency of experience. And if you're not actually leveraging meaningful content and presenting it in context and you're not going to evoke an emotion that is worth evoking, so definitely have the data piece than the content piece. But I would also add, and you've probably had other people sitting in this seat talking about how the complexity of all that has certainly exceeded now the capacity of at least my brain to manage in a singular sort of engagement with a customer, let alone at scale millions of times a day. So the role of artificial intelligence and machine learning now is so corps I would think that it's absolutely kind of. It's sort of the gearbox that's that's turning at the center of the data on one hand, the content and elements, the assets, the offer's on the other that allows for ultimately the coalescing of those things and then the delivery of an experience worth having. So that may have been like a two dollar answer Teo Two Cent question. But really, I feel like that's sort of the component pieces that we're seeing at play and sort of adobes motivation. And going into that space that came out where we're >> to Dhobi sounded a couple weeks ago. I can't keep track of things. Couple weeks go on Guy found it really interesting, especially with adobes roots really in the content generation side, right, all the way back to the creatives and the creators of that great content. And now to be a Liza sophistication of the tools to a B tests. I think best buy was on stage and they did four million or forty million customized email. So now you know, take this great creative A be tested to the degree again using the data and the contacts and the in the knowledge of what those customers are all about. And now it seems like the magenta piece is kind of the icing on the cake. Teo actually have the ability to get the transaction. Associate it with all this other process. Teo, bring the cash register, if you will. >> You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Adobe. When we when we executed sort of what we announced our intent to to acquire, we were talking about How does it'LL be? Facilitator? Help every experience become shop a ble and every moment personal And really that was That was a claim we couldn't make without without the magenta piece. So it is absolutely, um it's a hand in glove relationship. And now, especially as we've all evolved as consumers, I mean to imagine that we would be subscribing to socks or that we could one click purchase just about anything >> you need, the >> technology that can kind of keep pace with the expectations. And that's what it's all about because so many of those experiences that Adobe is intent on enabling our customers to present s >> so many of them culminate in a transaction >> of some sort. So the magenta is absolutely not only the icing on the cake, which I think is that it's a great metaphor, but it's also so integral right now, it's becoming like a fundamental or elemental part of what >> we're trying to accomplish, right. >> So delivering this comprehensive customer experience, managing our analytics, advertising, marketing, commerce the one thing that when you were kind of describing the core components of customer experience management again thinking is time. Because as consumers, we have so much choice. And if we meet friction at any point along the way, we're gonna churn it. We're gonna find somebody else who's gonna be able to deliver this product or service right. And unless in a frictionless way. So when you were talking about a I, for example, I was thinking comment on how that Khun B. Leverage to be able to facilitate that Justin Time shop, a ble experience that converts to a sale that is able to do so in a way that's personable, personalized to the customer experience and taking that inside to go. Right now, there's an action that Lisa just took. We've gotta offer this right now, >> right? Well, you know, that's one of things that I absolutely love about customer experience management. Sieck Sam Neill here issues the acronym. In >> a way, I >> just I kind of loved the absurdity of it, right. I mean, when you think of the scale to say something like, we're going to make every experience, shop a bowl and every moment personal, it's just, uh it's scope of that. And to imagine that that's possible is almost absurd. But when you introduce the advancements that we're seeing in artificial intelligence and machine learning now, it's literally going from the absurd of from the realm of science fiction into very real. It's and that's where What what adobes looking at, like, How can we literally take some sort of statement like we're going to personalize experiences at every across the customer journey? We're going to do it at scale and in real time you think you brought up the component of of real time and really, unless you're considering how we're going to meet the needs of the customer in the moment that they're expressing that need, then it's really moved. So it and it is absolutely artificial intelligence and machine learning that we're seeing sort of expressed now across the Adobe Experience cloud that are making that happen in in multiple ways. One of the ways would be simply by shortening that span between sort of the late genius that marketers are walking around in their heads and actual execution. So how can we kind of take the work some of the friction out of the work flows that allow them to translate their ideas in tow offers? And another place would be, How do we shorten the space between a signal that we get saying behavioral data that we see show up either in a nap or on a on a website, and then turn through all of the possibilities of what we could present? Apply algorithms to kind of determine what is the next best offer next best experience, and then present that >> in a way that actually >> feels, if not really time pretty close to it? And that would not be possible without without artificial intelligence at Adobe, our product in that space that we references Adobe Sensei's So you'LL hear us talk about Adobe Sense, say, and that's it's kind of the the umbrella that stretches around the different elements that I was talking about so >> interesting how just have the expectation game has changed and actually now being enabled by the technology under the covers because they used to be right. We made decisions based on a sampling of the data after the fact. Right now, the expectation is, I want to make a decision based on all the data or is close to all those I can get in near real time, real time, defined as enough time to do something about it, which is a completely different way to attack that problem and really change the expectation Gay. But that is the expectation game now from customers who are hoping that thing shows up. That's supposed to show up because it's really what I'm interested in now. And can't you figure that out based on all my activity? That's right. >> In fact, I was I was just having conversations with my children, and it kind of blows my mind there. They literally wonder why, when we order something on Amazon, it's not there, like within an hour to didn't Didn't we just buy that? And interestingly, in some in some markets now you're almost in a point where that's actually reality and So the fact that we've witnessed in such a short time frame this this kind of realization in this new reality, it is absolutely It's absolutely fascinating to observe it. We can only kind of blame and congratulate ourselves. Right is consumers for pushing these expectations, But now brands are doing everything they can to come Teo to keep up with. But I think one of the magical things that we're >> still we're still surprised and delighted on a regular >> basis. And that's one of the things that I love about Adobe and our ability to sort of Teo. Activate the things that that marketers and people who are responsible for customer spirit experience know that they want to dio. We're giving them tools now where it's actually not only a reality to respond in these incredibly short time frames, >> but do it in a way that could be >> super creative and and breakthrough or differentiate, which is a It's a It's a meaningful requirement for brands today to be able to do all of that stuff, but do it in a way that >> is unlike their peers, exactly like we were talking about before, when you have so much choices a consumer, especially for certain types of products that are commodities. If it's not in a way that's differentiated and unique, I'm going to go somewhere else. Where I could find that experience really kind of connects with me on whatever level, whatever the product of services be able to create that creative, unique experience. And we were talking with Jason about what was announced this morning with Adobe Sales Channel on the Adobe branded storefront and being able to give merchants even within Sorry, not Adobe Alice on been talking for hours, giving them the ability, say, within an Amazon marketplace to be elevator brand a little bit, make it a little bit more unique. So they had a little bit of an edge and maybe expressed some brand creativity within that platform. >> Right? I really do appreciate that element of of of what we're doing, having come from kind of an advertising background myself, where you know that you're the mental band with you get with anyone is so limited, and the opportunity to differentiate is you have to grab it when it presents itself. And so, in order to weigh risk to becomes like overly scientific about this indefinitely. There's there's so much science involved with it now. But we can't forget the art. We can't forget the opportunity to literally tio take that those even those minor elements. And sometimes it's the signals that we get that say someone is prepared, are interested in this type of experience. But then how do we make that experience not feel surgical, but rather actually impressive and emotionally even on? So that's one of things that I love about Adobe. We really do try and embrace push forward on the science aspect. But respect the fact that a lot of brand building and a lot of meaningful experiences that we have are absolutely also rooted in the art. So >> that's a great point. It's really helping customers kind of fine tune and dialled the art with the science. Your park marketing guy. What may be a favorite customer example that shows a customer that's really been able to leverage the data, the creativity to deliver differentiated brand millionaire, their customers, anything come to mind in particular? >> Well, certainly there's, you know, there's there's so many I I feel like for me, the operative when I really feel impacted by a brand. Sometimes it's when I break out of sort of the mundane or I get to go, wanna get I get to go on vacation with my family and I feel like, interestingly just going to AA remote locale. Sometimes it can either be magical or can be like, Ah, horror show, right? But the way brands like Marriott Starwood married Bon voy. Now the way that they're there, they're embracing the opportunity to sort of bring technology in a way that that feels very additives but almost transparent to where now you're actually you, Khun, Ifyou're based on your loyalty program and you have the right app on your phone, you can walk straight to the door and unlock the room. I mean, that's that's huge. And it takes something that could've like that might have been one of the bigger friction points, like standing in a line to check in, >> and it just makes it fluid. It makes it feel >> like, you know, this is the type of experience that I want tohave, but I'm just getting things done and things feel good and the opportunity for a brand to go in and sort of think about Where are those points where I might be introducing friction rather than feel good and being able to remove those and have technology do it in a transparent way? I think is really it's really impressive. >> It could be absolutely transformational. Absolutely for sure. It's such a good >> example of just kind of twisting the lens, you know, the check in process. Who would ever think we're not going to change the check in process? It's a check in process, but for some would actually you'LL Wait a minute, That is, that is, that is of their whole experience of their time with us. You're family for a couple three, four days. You know, that is a major for friction point. You're tired. Just got in from the airport, you know, the kids were hungry. You just want to drop your bags and then the stand in line. So So they used technology to redefine that little piece of that whole week that you're spending that property is really creative. Before you even get to the technology enablement to make it so >> or or take, for example, one of the most painful things that can happen and travel when you're on a flight that's delayed or cancelled. And then not only are you dealing then with just kind of the emotional duress of of having to re calculate everything, but then >> you have to stand in line forever. But now you >> can pull out your app and at your fingertips you have potential. You have the opportunity to be recognized as I'm this passenger. I have this sort of status. Here are our alternatives and being able to sort of take control or engage in that way that that that that leverages technology to again sort of remove friction and add solution. I >> just think >> we're really at the tip of the iceberg in the way that we're going to see this type of technology infusing into things that we feel are more pure experience than just marketing in campaigns. >> Exciting, exciting times. Adam, thank you so much for joining me on the Cuban sound implosion. Look forward to hearing lots of great things to come and really helping to drive his experiences with the art and the science. Indeed. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Thanks >> for Jeff. Rick. I'm Lisa Martin. Coming to you live from Imagine twenty nineteen at the Wynn Las Vegas. Thanks for watching