>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS. Imagine by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back. You're ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube. We're in downtown Seattle at the AWS. Imagine Education event. It's a second year of the event. It's about 800. People were here last year, too, I think was 400 people. So it's growing quickly, like everything at a W s. It's all about education. That's that's public school, private school, university K through 12 community college, everything you can imagine. It's a really comprehensive kind of area that Amazon's focusing on. We're excited. Have our next guest really from the school district emanating from school district? He's Travis Pocky, the senior director Information Service is for Portland Public School. I'm a proud graduate of the Portland public school system. So, Travis, great to see you. Great to see you. Absolutely. So for stop impressions of the show, you said you weren't able to make it this year. I got to sit in the key notes this morning with Theresa and Andrew. A couple sessions just kind of your impressions of being at an event like this, >> you know, it's really fantastic tohave an event that ties together AWS and education. And in that education space. It's a great resource for people that are using AWS within the education community. So this has been fantastic. >> Yeah, it's good because the education is not necessarily touted as the most progressive in his street. Exactly. So the fact that they made this commitment is pretty significant. Exactly. So you had a recent a recent significant event within your kind of I d journey cloud during one of you could tell us what you guys just recently completed. >> Sure. So we recently migrated our peoples off application from our on Prem Data Center to the cloud. And, you know, one of the one of the real challenges we had was there was no extra money to do this work. So we had kind of come across the idea that the hardware was end of life. It was gonna be about a $500,000 replacement cost. In addition to that, we had several on staff positions that really weren't available. It had become such a niche skill set that we really had a lot of trouble trying to get those positions filled. So, in addition to that my boss came around the corner and said, By the way, we have a 10% budget cut. So how do we resolve all of that plus address? This really big problem with the system, not even >> time, was ticking, right? Your hardware time was >> ticking. It it was really bad. I mean, we were at a point where we were getting young 9 12th page refresh times. And, you know, the user community had kind of gotten to the point where our numbers for satisfaction looked really good because we didn't get complaints because the user community had gotten so disillusioned by making those complaints and not getting any results that they just gave up on complaining. So way were out of time, >> year out of time. So, you know, typically, a cloud migration of an old application is not necessarily the easiest place to get started on your cloud journey. Did you already have some experience with powder? Was this really kind of your first foray into this area? >> You know, I had worked at a start up a few years before, and we did our entire infrastructure on eight of us. So that was my my introduction to AWS and HBO Service's. And there was a lot of there's a lot of people that were looking away from that as a solution. It didn't seem like the viable thing to do. And yes, we were advised not to try the e r P first. But that was our use case. And if >> we were gonna do it, we were gonna do it big. So we did. He brought in some consultants. I would assume that helped out. Are you guys doing all in house? >> Actually, what we did was we looked for a managed service provider. So are our use case in that we had many positions that we couldn't get filled was that we needed the virtual infrastructure. But we also needed the people to do some of those tasks for us. So that was That was our partnership, was we work with a manage solution provider called High Street and High Street. Really helped us with that process. >> It So how long did it take? When did you get complete? >> Um, we went from idea to completion in four months. >> Idea to completion in four months. Yes. Wow. >> And that was That was unprecedented. No, nobody expected it to work. Certainly nobody expected it to work that fast. And when you do these migrations Ew, you I understand that it is going to be a high stress situation. And the one of the major things that AWS did for us was it gave us that virtual infrastructure so that we could run in tandem. We could actually continue to run completely as we were in production and run the new systems and run all the tests. So we were able to get cut over in no time with almost no stress. I think we had one problem when we went live. >> So then what did your boss say when he came around the corner? Good job, Travis. Okay, great. So you know, there's there's a whole bunch of components to cloud right that have a lot of benefits security. Like we said, it's actually a lot more secure than a lot of time on your own stuff. There's cost savings, and there's infrastructure leverage that you can get, but more importantly, and we've heard a lot of the stories here is it opens up on opportunity for innovation, opens up an opportunity to try any things to move fast. So I wonder if, if you know that kind of unintended consequence of this process or do you think you've kind of sold the house people that you know? Look, it worked. We did it fast. Assume it's close to budget or close two timing. And now, you know, sit here for two days and listen to all the crazy, cool, innovative things that people are doing with X, right, etcetera. So where do you go? Where do you go next? >> You know, one of the one of the unintended consequences of it was was granting us a D R process. So we had a We had a very basic deal, our system in place and by moving to the cloud, Not only do we make it insulated from any events that might happen in our primary building, which is also our primary data center, but it gave us that ability due to fail over and persist through through a significant event. One of the other things that's done those it's given our develop access to tools that they just didn't have access to before. So, one of the places where were expended experimenting pretty heavily. Yoon is is Lambda. So server lis functions trying to get to the point where we can enhance our existing software by making calls out to our Amazon vpc and data that exists out there without having to make hard core modifications to the internal systems right way were actually able to do a demo of that within 30 minutes. So that's that normal process would take about two weeks to >> write. So it was there, Is there new stuff on the horizon is just our use, like a kid in a candy store, like now, you know, look at the power flexibility that we have it. We just didn't have the kind of strapped payroll data center before. >> Absolutely, Right now we're trying. I think the biggest struggle is trying to figure out what we tackle next. There's a lot of things out there, you know. We have ah, data interchange platform. It would be great if we could replace that with AWS functions and lame duck calls. >> Um, it >> I think that's probably going to be our next biggest tackle. Is is that after that, we'd really like to start rewriting some of our in house written APS completely in AWS service is and I think that's gonna be a huge win for the district. >> Okay. And then do you guys purchase a lot of these other softer applications? Is a lot of companies here That blackboard is just the one that always comes into my head not to pick on them specifically, but you guys have a ton of those types of applications and installed as well. >> Way definitely tend to leverage bought first. Okay, But some of them likes women have been fantastic partners for us. And that's one of the ones that we've really leaned on because of how intricate some of our policies are school meant as the capability to implement that for us, >> right? Right. Well, sounds pretty exciting, but that's but the question is, when does the grand opening of the of Grant? That's what I wanted. I need the date. So afterwards you could wait a little. They just finished a beautiful remote. I don't even know how many millions and millions of dollars are spent, but a lot. Very yes, a lot. All right. Well, Travis, congratulations. Four months. The AARP move. I don't know. Throw that as a challenge. Maybe somebody else could beat it. That's pretty good. Absolutely. Alright. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you. Alright, He's Travis. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube. Where? Aws. Imagine education in downtown Seattle. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>We'll go back to the cubes coverage of UI paths forward for big customer event. You know, this company has always bucked the trend and they're doing it again. They're having a live event, physical event. There are customers here, partners, technologists. I'm here with Lisa Martin, my co-host for the show. And we're going to talk about testing. It's a new market for UI path. If anybody knows anything about testing, it's kind of this mundane, repetitive process ripe for automation geared vice-chairs. Here's the senior vice president of testing products at UI path and Matt Elisa. Who's the product marketing lead at UI path. Gents. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having a feminist Likert. Explain to us how you guys think about testing both from an internal perspective and how you're going to market. >>Yeah, well, testing has been around for a long time, right? 20 twenty-five years or so when, when I came to UI pass, the first thing I looked at was like, how do our customers test RPA? And it's quite interesting. We did a survey actually with 1500 people and, uh, 27% said that they wouldn't test at all. And I thought that's really interesting. RPA is a business critical software that runs in your production environment and you probably have to test. So we came up with this idea that we create the test suite. We're using, you know, proven technology from UI pass. And, and we built this offering and brought us into market for RPA testing in for application testing. So we do both. And of course we use it internally as well. I mean, that will be, you know, eat your own dog food or drink your own champagne, I guess. So >>I want to think about it. If you, if you automate, if you, if there's an ROI to automate a process, there's gotta be an ROI to verify that it's going to work before it goes into production too. And so it's amazing that a lot of companies are not doing this and they're doing it manually, um, today. >>So, so, but so, but parts of testing have been automated, haven't they with regression testing. So can, can you guys take us through kind of the before and after and how you're approaching it versus the traditional? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, testing is not new, right? Um, but still when you look at the customers, they're not out to meeting more than I would say, 30, 40% of the manual tests. So still a lot of Stan manually, which I think, and we talked about this right manual testing is the, the original RPA. It's a tedious, repetitive tasks that you should not do manually. Right? And so what we are trying to bring in is now we're talking about this new role it's called the digital tester. The digital tester is an empowered. We could call a manual tester, who's able to build automation and we believe that this will truly increase the automation, even in the existing testing market. And it's going to be, I don't want to use the word game changer, but it's going change. Uh, the way testing is done. Yeah. >>And we're, we're applying, um, all the capabilities of UI path and delivering those to testers, just like we would for HR team or a, or a, a finance and accounting team. But testing even has they understand this more, they've been doing this for 20 years. They understand automation and we're going to give them things like process mining so they can figure out what tests they need to run from production data. We're going to give them task mining so they can make more human-like tests test. Exactly. Like I used to be a tester and I ran a test team. And what I used to do is I have to go out to a warehouse and I'd have to go watch people as they entered orders, to make sure I was testing it the right way. So they would like click. We usually thought they were clicking things, but they were using hotkeys. That's just an example of what they were doing. But now we can do task task mining to get that remotely, pull that data in and do tests and make more realistic tests. >>So much of the there's so much potential there. I think you were saying that only 27% are actually doing testing. So there's so much opportunity. I'm curious, where are your conversations within the customer organization? We know that automation is a board level investor topic. Where are you? Where are those discussions with the testing folks, the RPA folks, helping them come together? >>Well, that's interesting. The question, uh, we typically on the IPS, have we talked to the cos, right? The people that are professionally developing those RPAs, but very easily, we get introduced to the test side of the house. And then usually there's a joint meeting where the test people are there, the RPA people are there. And that's why we are talking about this is going to convert somehow, right? The are in different departments today. But if you think about it, five years down the road, maybe 10 years, they might be at an automation discipline for the entire enterprise. So if that answered your question about, >>Yeah. >>Going to require a cultural shift. Yeah. And we have a customer coming presenting this afternoon. and they're gonna be talking about how they, both of the teams are using a test teams and the RPA teams. And they built a reusable component library that, so when they built RPA team built their automations, they put them in a reusable library and the test team is able to recreate their test much faster reusing about 70% of the components. And so when the, when you think of automation, they're thinking about automating the application, not automating a process or a test so that people can use those like Lego blocks and build it if they're doing so, they could even, even it automation, if they wanted to start with an it automation, they could pull those components out and use those. >>I think this is game changing is quality because so often, because in this day and age of agile, it's like move fast and break things. A lot of things break. And when we heard this morning in the keynotes, how you guys are pushing code like a couple of times a week, I mean, it's just a constant. And then you do two big releases. Okay. I get, I get it for the on-prem. But when you're pushing code that fast, you don't have time to test everything. There's a lot of stuff that's unknown. And so to the extent that you can compress all those check boxes, now I can focus on the really important things that sometimes are architectural. How do you expect applying RPA to testing is going to affect the quality? Or maybe you've got some examples. Chipotle, you just mentioned, >>First of all, I mean, when you say we pushing code like bi-weekly or so, right. We're talking about continuous development. That's what it's called. Right? It's agile. You have sprint cycles, you continue to bring new code, new code, new code, and you test all the increments with it. So it's not that you building up a huge backlog for the testing on the IPA side. What I see is that there will be a transformation about the process, how they develop RPA at the moment. It's still done very much, I would say, in a waterfall way, which is agree. A big bang waterfall. Yeah. It will transition. We already have partners that apply agile methodologies to their actually RPA development. And that's going to change that. >>Okay. So it's not so it's quality for those that are in testing obviously, but, but it's, but for the waterfall guys, it's, it's compressing the time to value. Oh yeah. That's going to be the big key. That's really worth. >>I mean, what he said is Chipotle is, was able to reuse 70% of the automation components. Right. That's huge. I mean, you have to think about it. 70% can be reused from testing to RPA and vice versa. That's a huge acceleration. Also on the RPA side, you can automate more processes faster. If you have components that you can trust. >>So you were a tester. Yeah. So you were a cost center. Yes, exactly. >>Unnecessary. What's the budget. >>So could you think RPA and automation can flip that mindset? >>Yeah, totally. And that's one of the things we want to do is we want to turn testing from a cost center to a value center, give testers a new career paths, even because really testers before all you could do is you could be more technical. Maybe you become a developer or you can be a manager, but you couldn't really become like an automation architect or a senior automation person. And now we're giving them a whole different career path to go down. So it's really exciting. >>'cause I know when I came out of college, I had a job offer and I wanted to be a developer, a programmer. We called them back then. And the only job I could get was as a tester. And I was like, oh, this is miserable. I'm not doing this, but there's a, there was, there's a growth path there. They were like, Hey, do this for two or three years, maybe five years. I was like, forget it. I'm going into sales and marketing. But so what's the, what's the growth path today for the tester. And how do you see this changing? >>So you want to go, you want to, I can take that one. No, you take it. So that's a really, yeah. I mean, I did it, so really it's, I mean, we're going to be giving these guys, the testing market has been kind of not innovating for years and years and years. And so we're going to be giving these guys some new tools to make them more powerful, make even the cause. Testing is a kind of a practice that is, you know, like, like you said, you, you didn't like testing. I didn't like testing either. Actually I hate testing. So I automated it. So, um, and so that was the first thing I did. And so I think we're going to give these guys some new tools, some ways to grow their career and some ways to be even better testers, but like, like, like we've talked about process mining, test mining, like maybe they're maybe they're testing the wrong things. Maybe they're not testing, you know, maybe, you know, there, cause there's kind of this test, everything mentality we're we need to test everything and the whole release instead of like focusing in on what changed. And so I think we'll be able to help them really focus on the testing and the quality to make it more efficient as well. >>Go ahead. So do to defend the testers, right? Test is a very skilled people. Yes. They know their business, they know what to test and how to test in a way that nobody else knows that it's something we sometimes underestimate. They are not developers so that they don't write code and they don't build automations typically. But if we can equip them with tools that they can build out information, you have the brain and the muscle together, you know what I mean? You don't have to delegate the automation to some, whatever team that is maybe outsourced even you can do it. In-house and I think to some extent, that was also the story of Portland sourcing again, because they're building their own automation. Yeah. >>And it saved them time because they have deal is handoffs, you know, to an external third party to do the testing for them. And so they pulled it all in made things much more streamlined and efficient. How >>Is that? It seems like a big cultural shift within any type of organization in any industry we're using Chipola as an example here, how does your path help facilitate that cultural shift? Because that's big and we're talking about really reducing, um, or speeding time to value. >>Right. Right. And it is a lot of the agile methodologies like we're starting. So it's kind of like, we're going back in time, you know, and we're teaching these people, you know, the RPA community, all of the things that we learned from software development. Right. And so we're going to be applying that to this. And so all those agile mindset, the th the agile values, you know, those are the things that are going to help them kind of come together. And that's one of the things that Julie talked about is one of the things is they had a, kind of an agile mindset, a can-do attitude that pulled them down. >>And I think one thing that will really helps with changing the culture is empowering the people. If you give them the tools that they can do, they will do, and that will change the culture. I don't think it can come from top down. It needs to come from within and from the people. And that's what we see also with RPA, by the way, is adopted on department level and D build automations. And then at some point it becomes maybe an enterprise wide initiative, right. But somebody in HR had this idea and started >>The other thing too, is Matt, you mentioned this you'd go to a third party. So years ago in the early two thousands, we had a software company. We would use a company called agile on. They were, so I don't know if you ever heard of them. They're basically, we're a job shop. And we would throw our code over the very waterfall, throw the code over the fence. It was a black box and it was very asynchronous. And it would come back, you know, weeks later. And they say, oh, I fixed this, fixed this, but we didn't have the analytics we didn't have. There was no transparency had we had that. We would have maybe come up with new ideas or have way to improve it because we knew the product way better. And so if you can bring that, in-house now you've got much better visibility. So what, what analytics are our analytics a piece of this? And is that something? Yeah. >>Yeah. So, I mean, they'll give you an example, SAP systems, right? When you have SAP systems, customers apply transports like five or 10 a day. Every transport can change the system in a way that you might break the automation. We have the possibility to actually not only understand what's going on in this system with process mining, but we also have the possibility to do change, impact, money, and change impact. Mining tells me with every process, every transport I apply, what has changed, and we can pinpoint the test cases that you need to run. So instead of running a thousand test cases, every time we pinpoint 50 of them and you know exactly what has changed. Yeah. >>That's right. Because a lot of times you don't know what you don't know. And you're saying the machine is basically saying focus on these areas that are going to give you the biggest, that's kind of Amdahl's law. Isn't it focus on the areas that going to get the most return. Yeah. So this is a new business for UI path. You guys are targeting this as a market segment. Can you tell us more about that? >>We joined about two years ago. It takes some time to build something, right. There was a lot of proven technology there. And then we lounged, uh, I think it wasn't July last year, which was more like a private lounge. We, we didn't make much noise around it and it's gaining a lot of traction. So it's several hundred customers have already jumped on that test bandwagon, if you can call it this way. And yeah, this, this year we are pushing full speed into the testing market as well, because we see the benefits that customers get when they use both like the story from Chipotle. It has other customers like Cisco and, and more, when you hear the stories, what they were able to achieve. I mean, that's a no-brainer I think for any customer who wants to improve the automation. Yeah. >>Well, and also we're taking production grade automation and giving it to the testers and we're giving them this advanced AI so they can automate things. They weren't able to automate before, like Citrix virtual virtualized machines, point of sale systems, like 12 layer, any other business would have, they can automate all those things now that they couldn't do before, as well as everything else. And then they can also the testing tools, they talked about fragmentation this morning. That's another problem is there's a tool for mobile. There's a tool for this. There's a tool for API APIs and you have all these tools. You have to learn all these languages. We're going to give them one that they can learn and use and apply to all their technologies. And it's easy to use and it's easy to use. Yeah. >>That's kind of been the mantra of UiPath for very long time, easy to use making, making RPA simple. We've got 8,000 plus customers. You mentioned a few of them. We're going to have some of them on the program this week. How do you expect good question for you that stat that you mentioned from that survey in the very beginning of our conversation, how do you expect that needle to move in the next year? Because we're seeing so much acceleration because of the pandemic. >>A really good question, because the questions that we had in the beginning after we had the first hundred, right? The values didn't change that much. So we have now 1500 and you would assume that is pretty stable from the data. It didn't change that much. So we're still at 27% that are not testing. And that's what we see as our mission. We want to change that no customer that has more than, I dunno, five processes in production should not like not test that's crazy and we can help. And that's our mission. So, but the data is not changing. That's the interesting part. >>And I know, I know we're out of time, but, but we're how do you price this? Is it a, is it a set? Is it a subscription? Is it a usage based model? How >>It's fully included in the UI pass tool suite. So it means it's on the cloud and on-prem the pricing is the same. We are using this. There it is. Yeah. It's the same components. Like, like we're using studio for automation, we're using orchestrator, but we're using robots. We have cloud test manager on prem test manager. It's just a part of the, >>So it's a value add that you're putting into the platform. Yeah, yeah, exactly. >>Yeah. Th there are components that are priced. Yes. But I mean, it's part of the platform, how, >>But it's a module. So I paid for that module and you turn it on and then they can use it. So it's a subscription. It could be an annual term if I want multi-year term, I can do that. Exactly. Good. Great guys. Thanks so much for coming on the Cuban and good luck with this. Thank you. Great, great innovations. Okay. Keep it right there at Dave Volante for Lisa Martin, we'll be back with our coverage of UI path forward for, from the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Keep it right there.

>>Okay, welcome back to the Cube coverage of Dr Khan 2021. I'm John for your host. Had a great guest here. Dana Lawson. Vice president. Engineering and technology partnerships that get up dana. Welcome to the cube. You're leading the engineering team over at GIT hub. Been been around the block in the cloud enterprise area. Congratulations. Welcome to the cube. >>Well, thanks for having me. Don, I am super excited. Dr. 2021 Wow. I can't believe it's been that long. Right. >>Got the keynote coverage automation. The top trend here in the world. DevoPS DEP sec apps, developer productivity, modern errors here, a lot of action uh and dr conscious more attendance every year, containers setting up the cloud native. You know the tsunami of new ways that people are programming. New way teams are formed new way people are being super productive with the pandemic. We've seen developers really lead the charge in the virtual work environment. So a lot of action. So first tell us what's going on in the developer community right now, give us your take, >>I mean, my take on it is the developer teams are just working closer than ever before. You know, we see this across all industries, whether you're going through your own digital transformation and trying to streamline your workflow, um you know, we have this concept of devops now for about a decade and and we all were hopeful I was one of those early adopters that like, yes, this will change the world, as you can imagine, and like we're seeing it materialized and I feel like in this historic year, uh it's on steroids, we see teams working across the aisle doing things we've never experienced before with this concept of interconnected tools. And so we're seeing really the, I would say the practice of devops really going across every member of the team and not being just a practice that maybe one person on your team did. You know, this trend has been ongoing for a while. But with these new key technologies out there, it's really on fire in my opinion, >>outside of just the whole cloud native awesomeness that's happening. You see kubernetes enabling a lot of new things, the virtual work environment with the pandemic developers, just like just the way we've been working a long time. Finally, it just got standardized for the rest of the world, the world. Um they didn't really miss a beat and, and combined again with the cloud scale and we saw the earnings from all the big companies, the developers have been super productive this year. Do you see um that continuing and what, how is it going to change in your opinion as the pandemic kind of lifts a little bit and now the new normal gets back to real life. Certainly those benefits came out is what's your take on this engineering dynamic going on. >>I mean you said it they're like this is a common kind of workflow that people had pre pandemic, especially in the open source community where it's literally a bunch of random people around the world that don't obviously get to talk as as quickly and as uh you know, synchronously and so a saint communications gone up in what we've seen there is teams really tuning in their automation, right? So whereas you may have had it in your backlog to say, you know what, I should probably go automate that workflow now that we have been forced. Even even companies that haven't haven't thought about in the past to say, okay, how do I get code from A to B. Seamlessly? There's spending time on those workflows. and I think that we're seeing that naturally, you know, in the keynote where I mentioned some of the Research that we've done is we're seeing developers work more but we're seeing them work more on open source projects and the things that they want to work on not necessarily going and saying I'm going to go and spend 20 hours at work. But really it's that that continuation of like hey instead of automation being an afterthought we're gonna make it something that is at the forethought of what we're doing. And so what it's really done is just increase the time spent on writing great code and hopefully having a better up time. I am a I am a DEvops SRE sys admin, whatever you wanna call it at heart forever will be. Um and so you know, getting to have more time to spend on S. L. O. S. And really the, you know like I call it the safety guards, the rails of your system so that you can just really go in there and allow everybody to contribute. And that's what I think we're seeing and we're going to continue to see that as things just get easier as stuff happens out of the virtual box. >>I mean simple or easy. It's always a good strategy. I was just reporting for our team on the cube con and cloud native con. There's more cloud native con going on than cube con because kubernetes got kind of boring. Um, and enabled more cloud native development. And then the other trend that we've been reporting on is end user contribution to open sores. You're starting to see end users, not just the usual suspects like lift and whatnot. You're seeing like real enterprises like having teams contributing into open source in a big way. This is a kind of a new, interesting dynamic. What's your take on that? Is that a signal of simplicity? What does it mean? >>I'm going to tell you, I think that companies and big names that realized they were using open source and they have been all along, um, it's been around for a minute. Some of our most favorite libraries and frameworks have been open source from the beginning. You hear me talking about Java and Tomcat that's open source. And so it's really this understanding of the workflow. So I want to say that what we see now is there should be an investment because the world's team of open source developers are powering our technology and why shouldn't we as companies embrace and actually get back and spend that quality time because us innovating together on open source privately and publicly just makes everything better for everybody. And so I I think we're going to continue to see this trim. I'm excited about it. GIT hub has done some amazing work in this space by with get up sponsors because we want open source to continue to enable the innovation and having people participate. And now we're seeing it with businesses alike. And so I think we're going to see this practice continue on and really take a look not only of the technology they're using, but the open source practices like how do these maintainers and these open source teams shit reliable quality code that is changing the world. And how can we put those practices within our own development teams on what we're building for our customers? So you're just going to continue to see this. And I think also with that being said because the barrier of entry has has lowered some by the advancement. What we're seeing the rise of the citizen developer as well. So we're seeing you know people all within the company and some that are much more further along with their transformations participate in a way they never have before. Whether it's like you know the design part in the design thinking of it to like how do you curate and have a great experience for your customers. We're just seeing participation at all levels of development stack and that also is the stuff outside of the actual code being written because it's so interconnected and so I I don't know I'm excited. I'm excited to see what we're going to unlock by having people participate more so than ever and then having companies invest in that participation. >>I love your enthusiasm. I agree. I think it's a great time for open source because it has democratized, it is bringing in new people. The aperture of the personas coming in >>is not >>just computer science and engineering. This hybrid SRE rolls developing and then you've got creative. There's a creativity aspect coming back and I've been riffing on this for a few years but I'm kind of seeing this development, love to get your thoughts used to be like craftsmanship was involved in building software and then Agile came in ship fast and iterate. Um and now craft is coming back. You're starting to see creativity and the developer experience through collaboration tools and kind of this democratization. What's your thoughts on this? And no, I know you I know you think about this as an engineering leader. Um Craft agile bring them both together. Speed and quality is craft coming back. >>Craft is definitely coming back and I think it is because we we melt the mundane stuff, right? Like, you know, we're all hyper focused on like you want to be the bush out there, you gotta ship immediately agile, agile, agile. But what we know is like you can ship a bunch of stuff, nobody wants very fast, you can ship a bunch of stuff that hasn't been curated to really, you know, solve the problem now, you'll be fast but will be awesome. I think people demand more. And I really believe that because we've embraced some of these frameworks, workflows and tool sets, that we get a focus on the craft and that's what we're trying to do, right? Ultimately we want every person that builds to be an innovator and not just an innovator for innovation state, but because they're changing and affecting somebody's life, right? And so when we dig deep and focusing on the craft, and we still have these expertise, we're just gonna be applying that in a very intentional way versus okay, hurry up. Bill, Bill Bill, hurry up, hurry up. Bill Bill, Bill, go, go, go, because now it's connected. And so we're seeing the rise of that craft and what I think is going to in turn happen is we're all going to have a better experience, we're all going to reap the benefits of having that expertise. You know, there's a spirit sometimes when we talk about automation and devops and, you know, interconnected tool systems that maybe you're taking somebody's job that they were doing before the daily task. No way. All we're doing is saying like, cool, take the repeatable thing that you're doing over and over and over, and let's focus on that craft, lets you know if your security person and you want to get down and deep and understand where vulnerabilities are going to come from and things that people haven't even thought of. Cool, let's take away some of the other things that we know can be caught and solved without you paying attention in some aspects. I think we just need along the whole stack. So it's pretty exciting times. >>Yeah, I did it and we call that different, undifferentiated heavy lifting, you know, just get it out of the way since you brought that up. Let's take automation down that road of experience. What does it mean for the developer? Because this is really an opportunity. Right. So the phrase I've heard is if you do it more than a few times, just automated away. So when is the right time to automate where this automation play into the developer experience? When does it make it more productive? Where's the innovation angle you share your thoughts on when people look through the prism of automation productivity versus innovation? What's the what's the automation view there? >>I mean, you know it is it is a good like, you know, little metric could be done it five times and it's the same thing over and over and over. Your question is now like do you have to be doing that? I mean you should because you're doing it. So I think it's about finding and defining your own boundary for what you need, right? I mean it's hard to get out there and say every workflow like we can go and apply the stamp. We already tried that with agile frameworks for like everybody you're gonna do scrum, we're going to combine, you know what? It doesn't work. What we really need to do is have teams understand their workflows, right, understand and do some diagnosis and saying like we're in the system and I think that's powerful metrics and insights of going like where are we having a slowdown? Where are people spending their time if people are spending their time doing break fix or they're spending their time continuously trying to jam something into a certain pipeline, you have to ask yourself, is this something that we should be spending that time on? What if we had that time freed up? And so I do think you can go and put some good boundaries in there, whatever yours may be. I love I love some of those rule sets but really you know, deadlocks and automation starts with the process, right? We think about it and when I developed software always think about it through that design. Thinking lands of how will this work when I get to it. And so if we're focusing on the design aspect and the user experience, then we start looking at the pieces in between from that code to having people use it and say what do I need to do? And sometimes you know depending on your industry, you may have these other needs that not everybody has. So it's hard to say there's a one size fits all. But there is a good rule like if you've done the same repeatable thing over every every day, uh numerous days like you probably should just go spend the time to automate that. And I think it's the convincing point, right? Like if we go and and a lot of us are are nerds and engineers at heart and I love freaking math. So it's that like okay if we spend two hours building maybe a hub action for a doctor one time instead of somebody happened to repeat this process no matter what it is. Like you're giving that time back in that time is mental capacity, mental capacity that can be applied to something that's more important and hopefully the more important thing is the user experience. Um So yeah, I mean you know we all have those little systems out there. I say use them but take a step back. I think the bigger, the harder part is like yes, you will have to slow down for a minute, which is scary to go and build something repeatable so that you can speed back up. You know, >>it's awesome. Great, great inside love, love the energy a lot to ask you while you're here because this is something I've been thinking about. I'm hearing a lot of developers talking about, understand the workflow you mentioned that's a key thing. I love that. Getting in and understanding the customer experience working backwards, but that brings up the whole. How do you form the teams? How do you think about team formation? Because at cloud scale with cloud native, you can use building blocks, You have automation, you can easily compose and then build intellectual property around things. Use containers, make things easier. So as you start thinking about teams, is it better to have teams focus on, say workflows and then decoupled teams? Is there a strategy for general purpose teams or how do you look at the team formation from the developer perspective to make the experience great, high quality. Is there a state of the art in your opinion, given the compose ability and all the ease of use going on? I mean, what's the ideal way to think this through? What's your thoughts? >>Oh, you know, there's, I'm going to say there's not one team team to rule them all, there's not one team kind of foundation that's gonna be able to be applicable, it's all different, right? Like even within the same company, especially at scale, you may have these different compositions of your team and I think it comes down to like, what problems are you trying to solve within your workflow? What are you trying to accomplish? I think when we, when we step back and we think about our Ci cd pipelines and really code from idea into cloud that I believe in a unified system, because I don't want developers worrying about it and doing one offs, I'm like, you don't need to know that, and that's been an argument that's going on, you know, I'm a huge kubernetes fan and so it's been like, should, should, should the feature developers understand the entrance of kubernetes? I'm gonna say something controversial, I'm gonna say no, I'm gonna say they don't need to know, they need to know how to monitor alert and how to have smart rollbacks and have a system that does it for them. That's why we have Orchestration, that's why we have dr containers, that's why we have world class eight PM and monitoring systems in place because we've done that, we've done that hard work. So I would say no, they don't need to know that, so, but you still need these needs, right? Depending upon where you are in this transformation, right? Maybe you're still like, you know, integrating some of these cloud needed principles and toolsets and so you need some smes I do really love the SRE embedded model, not embedded, like on your, you know, like embedded, like a chip set, but embedded in the team, because that person really should be a mentor and should be a force multiplier. You don't want to fall in the trap and be like oh we have an SRE on the team. They're going to do all the devops stuff. No no no no they're going to go and help you think about your product through a customer lens right there. They're the experts going like whoa maybe we should have an S. L. A. Because this is a tier one feature lets go and make sure we build that automation so that we curate this feature with the highest level availability but then teach the team how to do that. So now you have this practice as a part right? Like you're honing your craft, you have this practice now. Does that mean they need to go learn everything about like the monitoring sweet and tools are used. No, but they should understand how to read the output of that. And so there's not one team size to rule them all. Unfortunately, I personally, I'll tell you what I'm a fan of is like I think that you should have flexibility. Like once again think about the points where you need to have the connective unified system, right? And then you have this opportunity for developers to have some agency and creative freedom because maybe you've been on a team that's been working on, I don't know, let's say your audit service. I think every every software has some component of audit uh, you know, in some ability because you want to know what he was using one well after they've done their tour of duty because most of the cool stuff, they've already fixed and made a feature set. Let them go roll into something else because then you have that connective tissue on the inner points of your system that are always the same, right? We want really repeatability. We want them just to focus on writing the code. And I think because of these advancements we are unlocking opportunity for developers to think broader, right? Like maybe you've been on the platform team and you want to go dip your toes into writing features well, 90 okay, maybe not 90 but also 80% of that, you know, every day repeatable task, like focus on that and get that shit out. But then you have the sme and you're really thinking holistically as a customer obsessed team of what you're building and why. So I love that. No one way. >>Yeah, I love the idea of the platform person just having more flex out because that brings a platform mindset to the other pieces, but also feature acceleration versus product strategy. Thinking through the arc of why you're building in the first place, Right? So and then the embedded SRE great point there, great call out there because everything's cloud scale now, you gotta have pen tests built in automation, >>who's gonna >>design that. So I think it's really interesting how you're putting that together and I think that's very relevant. Um and any um new things that you see happening now with with cloud Native, you mentioned cabernets, I think you know the story that we've been telling is kubernetes got boring and that's good. Right? So, >>meaning its meaning it's working >>and people like it, it's interoperability or frustration. It feels like a unifying connective tissue between under the hood and above at the application layer. So it's nice but the consequence of that is there's more cloud native going on, so that means more services are going to be connected and torn down. You mentioned observe ability and monitoring. That's important too. So as an engineering leader, that's not another department. Right? That's gonna be core to the developers. What's your thoughts on how to integrate observe ability now there's a zillion companies doing it now but is that you know >>there is a zillion. My thoughts are like heck yeah. Like conservative observe ability isn't at the end of the stack. Right, observe ability is apart just like qualities apart. Just like when we think about agile, let me just throw it this way right? Like when dr came right, we had it basically have this maybe this baby os encompassed on servers. So you can have multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple distributed. Right? I think of like let's let's say that like your team is that Docker container man, you want everything in their right? It is a part of the practice. You want your learning, you want your logging, you want it all wrapped up in this nice little bow and you want lots of them all working together harmoniously. The same thing can be said about our teams. We want them to be their own little micro operating system where they have all the resources available for them to go and do the thing that they are intending to do and not have to worry about that subset. But it also gives them that control. Right? So it's building in that layer of abstraction that's needed but also understanding why it's important. So it's a little bit of both. Right? We're not going to curate deep subject matter experts. You know, I'm, you know the Oh yes, I model and every aspect right? Like we're not going to turn a friend and engineer necessarily into a network engineer. But utilizing the tool sets, having a playbook where it is controlled, maintained in a part of your culture. All that's gonna do is allow you to move faster and it's allow you to see what's really running out there in the wild. And I see these trends happening. I think we're continuing to see the rise of cloud native technologies because applications now are really a set of a P. I. S. That go across the world and in and out. And so the way that we develop is slightly different. And so we need to think about, well, how is it orchestrated and deployed? Well, if you have a repeatable pattern once again, if we go back to that and think of our team and I promise nobody asked me to come up with this as like a little darker, a little docker container itself. You know, you're gonna write that image into what makes sense for you and have all the resources available and you're gonna rinse and repeat that over and over and over again. And so I mean, we're just seeing, seeing this continue this continuation of, you know, monitoring devops? S sorry, it's not a problem. It's a culture, right? It's not one person's job or a role. It's a part of how you build great software. It's just a practice. >>You mentioned abstraction layer used to be conventional wisdom that they were good. But there's trade offs whose performance tradeoffs or some overhead. Not anymore. It's good. You can basically build an abstraction layer and say, hey, I don't want to deal with networking anymore. It's gonna make it programmable. >>That's cool. No >>problem. So you start to see these new innovation patterns. Right. So what are you most excited about when you start to see these new kinds of things of being brought on that were limited years ago? Like you start an abstraction layers, you see the role of the SRE you're seeing um the democratization of new developers coming in that are bringing new perspectives. She's seeing all these new kinds of ways that's re factoring how people write code. But what are you seeing is the most exciting >>for me? Honestly, it's like the opportunity for anybody to really be a builder maker developer, right? You don't have to have a traditional CS degree if you do that's awesome, Like come and teach us awesome stuff that we probably should know. That's foundational. I don't have a CS degree. You know, we're moving on from these opportunities where it's self taught to where you actually 100% can go and learn and build and create. We're seeing the rise in these communities. I feel like these toolsets are really just lowering the barrier of entry for those people that don't have advantage to go to like a four year school and get a degree for people that are just like have a great idea what excites me is that next developer, You know, we talk about the 100 million developer sitting somewhere in the world, just going, I have a great idea and I'm gonna change the world and I don't know how to get started, but they do, they have it at their hands now. You know, if you can go onto a website, get a little bit dangerous with these tool sets, you can go and get your idea to the masses and what we're going to end up doing is like you said, democratizing tech, it's going to bring in new ways to think it's going to change how we interact with systems. We get we get our blinders on sometimes, especially, you know, I live in Portland on the West Coast, the US, we know that the world is vast, majorly huge, dynamic, awesome place. The things that work for me may not work for somebody on the other side of the world. The things that I do may not be relevant. But we're going to find that human connection. We're going to continue to say, well, wait a minute. How can we optimize for any human anywhere? How can we help take all these differences but doing them in a repeatable pattern. So like for me that's exciting is these toolsets that we've been working on for years, are now going to put put in people's hands that never thought they could. And that is exciting. And like to see to see the rise of just creativity is what really makes humans special because we build and make >>and the fact that it's more inclusive now becoming more inclusive on all aspects of inclusive whether it's individuals and coders types of code. So uh integration is the new normal right integrating in uh data control planes, all that goodness coming in because of the ease of use of developer experience. Super awesome. Um dana you're awesome. Great to have you on the cube and sharing your energy and insight. Great call outs on many topics. A lot of gems being dropped. Their thanks for coming on the cube. >>Well thanks for having me. It's been awesome and doctor comes been great. I can't wait to see the rest of the show. >>Dr khan 2021 Virtual real life coming back maybe in physical next year or hybrid for sure. Just the cube coverage of Dr khan 2021. I'm sean for your host. Thanks for watching

>>from the Cube Studios >>in Palo Alto and >>Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Hey, welcome back here. Ready? Jeff Frick here with the Cube. We're doing a special presentation today really talking about AI and making ai really with two companies that are right in the heart of the Dell EMC as well as Intel. So we're excited to have a couple Cube alumni back on the program. Haven't seen him in a little while. First off from Intel. Lisa Spelman. She is the corporate VP and GM for the Xeon Group in Jersey on and Memory Group. Great to see you, Lisa. >>Good to see you again, too. >>And we've got Ravi Pinter. Conte. He is the SBP server product management, also from Dell Technologies. Ravi, great to see you as well. >>Good to see you on beast. Of course, >>yes. So let's jump into it. So, yesterday, Robbie, you guys announced a bunch of new kind of ai based solutions where if you can take us through that >>Absolutely so one of the things we did Jeff was we said it's not good enough for us to have a point product. But we talked about hope, the tour of products, more importantly, everything from our workstation side to the server to these storage elements and things that we're doing with VM Ware, for example. Beyond that, we're also obviously pleased with everything we're doing on bringing the right set off validated configurations and reference architectures and ready solutions so that the customer really doesn't have to go ahead and do the due diligence. Are figuring out how the various integration points are coming for us in making a solution possible. Obviously, all this is based on the great partnership we have with Intel on using not just their, you know, super cues, but FPG's as well. >>That's great. So, Lisa, I wonder, you know, I think a lot of people you know, obviously everybody knows Intel for your CPU is, but I don't think they recognize kind of all the other stuff that can wrap around the core CPU to add value around a particular solution. Set or problems. That's what If you could tell us a little bit more about Z on family and what you guys are doing in the data center with this kind of new interesting thing called AI and machine learning. >>Yeah. Um, so thanks, Jeff and Ravi. It's, um, amazing. The way to see that artificial intelligence applications are just growing in their pervasiveness. And you see it taking it out across all sorts of industries. And it's actually being built into just about every application that is coming down the pipe. And so if you think about meeting toe, have your hardware foundation able to support that. That's where we're seeing a lot of the customer interest come in. And not just a first Xeon, but, like Robbie said on the whole portfolio and how the system and solution configuration come together. So we're approaching it from a total view of being able to move all that data, store all of that data and cross us all of that data and providing options along that entire pipeline that move, um, and within that on Z on. Specifically, we've really set that as our cornerstone foundation for AI. If it's the most deployed solution and data center CPU around the world and every single application is going to have artificial intelligence in it, it makes sense that you would have artificial intelligence acceleration built into the actual hardware so that customers get a better experience right out of the box, regardless of which industry they're in or which specialized function they might be focusing on. >>It's really it's really wild, right? Cause in process, right, you always move through your next point of failure. So, you know, having all these kind of accelerants and the ways that you can carve off parts of the workload part of the intelligence that you can optimize betters is so important as you said Lisa and also Rocket and the solution side. Nobody wants General Ai just for ai sake. It's a nice word. Interesting science experiment. But it's really in the applied. A world is. We're starting to see the value in the application of this stuff, and I wonder you have a customer. You want to highlight Absalon, tell us a little bit about their journey and what you guys did with them. >>Great, sure. I mean, if you didn't start looking at Epsilon there in the market in the marketing business, and one of the crucial things for them is to ensure that they're able to provide the right data. Based on that analysis, there run on? What is it that the customer is looking for? And they can't wait for a period of time, but they need to be doing that in the near real time basis, and that's what excellent does. And what really blew my mind was the fact that they actually service are send out close to 100 billion messages. Again, it's 100 billion messages a year. And so you can imagine the amount of data that they're analyzing, which is in petabytes of data, and they need to do real time. And that's all possible because of the kind of analytics we have driven into the power It silver's, you know, using the latest of the Intel Intel Xeon processor couple with some of the technologies from the BGS side, which again I love them to go back in and analyze this data and service to the customers very rapidly. >>You know, it's funny. I think Mark Tech is kind of an under appreciated ah world of ai and, you know, in machine to machine execution, right, That's the amount of transactions go through when you load a webpage on your site that actually ideas who you are you know, puts puts a marketplace together, sells time on that or a spot on that ad and then lets people in is a really sophisticated, as you said in massive amounts of data going through the interesting stuff. If it's done right, it's magic. And if it's done, not right, then people get pissed off. You gotta have. You gotta have use our tools. >>You got it. I mean, this is where I talked about, you know, it can be garbage in garbage out if you don't really act on the right data. Right. So that is where I think it becomes important. But also, if you don't do it in a timely fashion, but you don't service up the right content at the right time. You miss the opportunity to go ahead and grab attention, >>right? Right. Lisa kind of back to you. Um, you know, there's all kinds of open source stuff that's happening also in the in the AI and machine learning world. So we hear things about tense or flow and and all these different libraries. How are you guys, you know, kind of embracing that world as you look at ai and kind of the development. We've been at it for a while. You guys are involved in everything from autonomous vehicles to the Mar Tech. Is we discussed? How are you making sure that these things were using all the available resources to optimize the solutions? >>Yeah, I think you and Robbie we're just hitting on some of those examples of how many ways people have figured out how to apply AI now. So maybe at first it was really driven by just image recognition and image tagging. But now you see so much work being driven in recommendation engines and an object detection for much more industrial use cases, not just consumer enjoyment and also those things you mentioned and hit on where the personalization is a really fine line you walk between. How do you make an experience feel good? Personalized versus creepy personalized is a real challenge and opportunity across so many industries. And so open source like you mentioned, is a great place for that foundation because it gives people the tools to build upon. And I think our strategy is really a stack strategy that starts first with delivering the best hardware for artificial intelligence and again the other is the foundation for that. But we also have, you know, Milat type processing for out of the Edge. And then we have all the way through to very custom specific accelerators into the data center, then on top about the optimized software, which is going into each of those frameworks and doing the work so that the framework recognizes the specific acceleration we built into the CPU. Whether that steel boost or recognizes the capabilities that sit in that accelerator silicon, and then once we've done that software layer and this is where we have the opportunity for a lot of partnership is the ecosystem and the solutions work that Robbie started off by talking about. So Ai isn't, um, it's not easy for everyone. It has a lot of value, but it takes work to extract that value. And so partnerships within the ecosystem to make sure that I see these are taking those optimization is building them in and fundamentally can deliver to customers. Reliable solution is the last leg of that of that strategy, but it really is one of the most important because without it you get a lot of really good benchmark results but not a lot of good, happy customer, >>right? I'm just curious, Lee says, because you kind of sit in the catbird seat. You guys at the core, you know, kind of under all the layers running data centers run these workloads. How >>do you see >>kind of the evolution of machine learning and ai from kind of the early days, where with science projects and and really smart people on mahogany row versus now people are talking about trying to get it to, like a citizen developer, but really a citizen data science and, you know, in exposing in the power of AI to business leaders or business executioners. Analysts, if you will, so they can apply it to their day to day world in their day to day life. How do you see that kind of evolving? Because you not only in it early, but you get to see some of the stuff coming down the road in design, find wins and reference architectures. How should people think about this evolution? >>It really is one of those things where if you step back from the fundamentals of AI, they've actually been around for 50 or more years. It's just that the changes in the amount of computing capability that's available, the network capacity that's available and the fundamental efficiency that I t and infrastructure managers and get out of their cloud architectures as allowed for this pervasiveness to evolve. And I think that's been the big tipping point that pushed people over this fear. Of course, I went through the same thing that cloud did where you had maybe every business leader or CEO saying Hey, get me a cloud and I'll figure out what for later give me some AI will get a week and make it work, But we're through those initial use pieces and starting to see a business value derived from from those deployments. And I think some of the most exciting areas are in the medical services field and just the amount, especially if you think of the environment we're in right now. The amount of efficiency and in some cases, reduction in human contact that you could require for diagnostics and just customer tracking and ability, ability to follow their entire patient History is really powerful and represents the next wave and care and how we scale our limited resource of doctors nurses technician. And the point we're making of what's coming next is where you start to see even more mass personalization and recommendations in that way that feel very not spooky to people but actually comforting. And they take value from them because it allows them to immediately act. Robbie reference to the speed at which you have to utilize the data. When people get immediately act more efficiently. They're generally happier with the service. So we see so much opportunity and we're continuing to address across, you know, again that hardware, software and solution stack so we can stay a step ahead of our customers, >>Right? That's great, Ravi. I want to give you the final word because you guys have to put the solutions together, it actually delivering to the customer. So not only, you know the hardware and the software, but any other kind of ecosystem components that you have to bring together. So I wonder if you can talk about that approach and how you know it's it's really the solution. At the end of the day, not specs, not speeds and feeds. That's not really what people care about. It's really a good solution. >>Yeah, three like Jeff, because end of the day I mean, it's like this. Most of us probably use the A team to retry money, but we really don't know what really sits behind 80 and my point being that you really care at that particular point in time to be able to put a radio do machine and get your dollar bills out, for example. Likewise, when you start looking at what the customer really needs to know, what Lisa hit upon is actually right. I mean what they're looking for. And you said this on the whole solution side house. To our our mantra to this is very simple. We want to make sure that we use the right basic building blocks, ensuring that we bring the right solutions using three things the right products which essentially means that we need to use the right partners to get the right processes in GPU Xen. But then >>we get >>to the next level by ensuring that we can actually do things we can either provide no ready solutions are validated reference architectures being that you have the sausage making process that you now don't need to have the customer go through, right? In a way. We have done the cooking and we provide a recipe book and you just go through the ingredient process of peering does and then off your off right to go get your solution done. And finally, the final stages there might be helped that customers still need in terms of services. That's something else Dell technology provides. And the whole idea is that customers want to go out and have them help deploying the solutions. We can also do that we're services. So that's probably the way we approach our data. The way we approach, you know, providing the building blocks are using the right technologies from our partners, then making sure that we have the right solutions that our customers can look at. And finally, they need deployment. Help weaken due their services. >>Well, Robbie, Lisa, thanks for taking a few minutes. That was a great tee up, Rob, because I think we're gonna go to a customer a couple of customer interviews enjoying that nice meal that you prepared with that combination of hardware, software, services and support. So thank you for your time and a great to catch up. All right, let's go and run the tape. Hi, Jeff. I wanted to talk about two examples of collaboration that we have with the partners that have yielded Ah, really examples of ah put through HPC and AI activities. So the first example that I wanted to cover is within your AHMAD team up in Canada with that team. We collaborated with Intel on a tuning of algorithm and code in order to accelerate the mapping of the human brain. So we have a cluster down here in Texas called Zenith based on Z on and obtain memory on. And we were able to that customer with the three of us are friends and Intel the norm, our team on the Dell HPC on data innovation, injuring team to go and accelerate the mapping of the human brain. So imagine patients playing video games or doing all sorts of activities that help understand how the brain sends the signal in order to trigger a response of the nervous system. And it's not only good, good way to map the human brain, but think about what you can get with that type of information in order to help cure Alzheimer's or dementia down the road. So this is really something I'm passionate about. Is using technology to help all of us on all of those that are suffering from those really tough diseases? Yeah, yeah, way >>boil. I'm a project manager for the project, and the idea is actually to scan six participants really intensively in both the memory scanner and the G scanner and see if we can use human brain data to get closer to something called Generalized Intelligence. What we have in the AI world, the systems that are mathematically computational, built often they do one task really, really well, but they struggle with other tasks. Really good example. This is video games. Artificial neural nets can often outperform humans and video games, but they don't really play in a natural way. Artificial neural net. Playing Mario Brothers The way that it beats the system is by actually kind of gliding its way through as quickly as possible. And it doesn't like collect pennies. For example, if you play Mary Brothers as a child, you know that collecting those coins is part of your game. And so the idea is to get artificial neural nets to behave more like humans. So like we have Transfer of knowledge is just something that humans do really, really well and very naturally. It doesn't take 50,000 examples for a child to know the difference between a dog and a hot dog when you eat when you play with. But an artificial neural net can often take massive computational power and many examples before it understands >>that video games are awesome, because when you do video game, you're doing a vision task instant. You're also doing a >>lot of planning and strategy thinking, but >>you're also taking decisions you several times a second, and we record that we try to see. Can we from brain activity predict >>what people were doing? We can break almost 90% accuracy with this type of architecture. >>Yeah, yeah, >>Use I was the lead posts. Talk on this collaboration with Dell and Intel. She's trying to work on a model called Graph Convolution Neural nets. >>We have being involved like two computing systems to compare it, like how the performance >>was voting for The lab relies on both servers that we have internally here, so I have a GPU server, but what we really rely on is compute Canada and Compute Canada is just not powerful enough to be able to run the models that he was trying to run so it would take her days. Weeks it would crash, would have to wait in line. Dell was visiting, and I was invited into the meeting very kindly, and they >>told us that they started working with a new >>type of hardware to train our neural nets. >>Dell's using traditional CPU use, pairing it with a new >>type off memory developed by Intel. Which thing? They also >>their new CPU architectures and really optimized to do deep learning. So all of that sounds great because we had this problem. We run out of memory, >>the innovation lab having access to experts to help answer questions immediately. That's not something to gate. >>We were able to train the attic snatch within 20 minutes. But before we do the same thing, all the GPU we need to wait almost three hours to each one simple way we >>were able to train the short original neural net. Dell has been really great cause anytime we need more memory, we send an email, Dell says. Yeah, sure, no problem. We'll extended how much memory do you need? It's been really simple from our end, and I think it's really great to be at the edge of science and technology. We're not just doing the same old. We're pushing the boundaries. Like often. We don't know where we're going to be in six months. In the big data world computing power makes a big difference. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The second example I'd like to cover is the one that will call the data accelerator. That's a publisher that we have with the University of Cambridge, England. There we partnered with Intel on Cambridge, and we built up at the time the number one Io 500 storage solution on. And it's pretty amazing because it was built on standard building blocks, power edge servers until Xeon processors some envy me drives from our partners and Intel. And what we did is we. Both of this system with a very, very smart and elaborate suffering code that gives an ultra fast performance for our customers, are looking for a front and fast scratch to their HPC storage solutions. We're also very mindful that this innovation is great for others to leverage, so the suffering Could will soon be available on Get Hub on. And, as I said, this was number one on the Iot 500 was initially released >>within Cambridge with always out of focus on opening up our technologies to UK industry, where we can encourage UK companies to take advantage of advanced research computing technologies way have many customers in the fields of automotive gas life sciences find our systems really help them accelerate their product development process. Manage Poor Khalidiya. I'm the director of research computing at Cambridge University. Yeah, we are a research computing cloud provider, but the emphasis is on the consulting on the processes around how to exploit that technology rather than the better results. Our value is in how we help businesses use advanced computing resources rather than the provision. Those results we see increasingly more and more data being produced across a wide range of verticals, life sciences, astronomy, manufacturing. So the data accelerators that was created as a component within our data center compute environment. Data processing is becoming more and more central element within research computing. We're getting very large data sets, traditional spinning disk file systems can't keep up and we find applications being slowed down due to a lack of data, So the data accelerator was born to take advantage of new solid state storage devices. I tried to work out how we can have a a staging mechanism for keeping your data on spinning disk when it's not required pre staging it on fast envy any stories? Devices so that can feed the applications at the rate quiet for maximum performance. So we have the highest AI capability available anywhere in the UK, where we match II compute performance Very high stories performance Because for AI, high performance storage is a key element to get the performance up. Currently, the data accelerated is the fastest HPC storage system in the world way are able to obtain 500 gigabytes a second read write with AI ops up in the 20 million range. We provide advanced computing technologies allow some of the brightest minds in the world really pushed scientific and medical research. We enable some of the greatest academics in the world to make tomorrow's discoveries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >>Alright, Welcome back, Jeff Frick here and we're excited for this next segment. We're joined by Jeremy Raider. He is the GM digital transformation and scale solutions for Intel Corporation. Jeremy, great to see you. Hey, thanks for having me. I love I love the flowers in the backyard. I thought maybe you ran over to the Japanese, the Japanese garden or the Rose Garden, Right To very beautiful places to visit in Portland. >>Yeah. You know, you only get him for a couple. Ah, couple weeks here, so we get the timing just right. >>Excellent. All right, so let's jump into it. Really? And in this conversation really is all about making Ai Riel. Um, and you guys are working with Dell and you're working with not only Dell, right? There's the hardware and software, but a lot of these smaller a solution provider. So what is some of the key attributes that that needs to make ai riel for your customers out there? >>Yeah, so, you know, it's a it's a complex space. So when you can bring the best of the intel portfolio, which is which is expanding a lot, you know, it's not just the few anymore you're getting into Memory technologies, network technologies and kind of a little less known as how many resources we have focused on the software side of things optimizing frameworks and optimizing, and in these key ingredients and libraries that you can stitch into that portfolio to really get more performance in value, out of your machine learning and deep learning space. And so you know what we've really done here with Dell? It has started to bring a bunch of that portfolio together with Dell's capabilities, and then bring in that ai's V partner, that software vendor where we can really take and stitch and bring the most value out of that broad portfolio, ultimately using using the complexity of what it takes to deploy an AI capability. So a lot going on. They're bringing kind of the three legged stool of the software vendor hardware vendor dental into the mix, and you get a really strong outcome, >>right? So before we get to the solutions piece, let's stick a little bit into the Intel world. And I don't know if a lot of people are aware that obviously you guys make CPUs and you've been making great CPIs forever. But there's a whole lot more stuff that you've added, you know, kind of around the core CPU. If you will in terms of of actual libraries and ways to really optimize the seond processors to operate in an AI world. I wonder if you can kind of take us a little bit below the surface on how that works. What are some of the examples of things you can do to get more from your Gambira Intel processors for ai specific applications of workloads? >>Yeah, well, you know, there's a ton of software optimization that goes into this. You know that having the great CPU is definitely step one. But ultimately you want to get down into the libraries like tensor flow. We have data analytics, acceleration libraries. You know, that really allows you to get kind of again under the covers a little bit and look at it. How do we have to get the most out of the kinds of capabilities that are ultimately used in machine learning in deep learning capabilities, and then bring that forward and trying and enable that with our software vendors so that they can take advantage of those acceleration components and ultimately, you know, move from, you know, less training time or could be a the cost factor. But those are the kind of capabilities we want to expose to software vendors do these kinds of partnerships. >>Okay. Ah, and that's terrific. And I do think that's a big part of the story that a lot of people are probably not as aware of that. There are a lot of these optimization opportunities that you guys have been leveraging for a while. So shifting gears a little bit, right? AI and machine learning is all about the data. And in doing a little research for this, I found actually you on stage talking about some company that had, like, 350 of road off, 315 petabytes of data, 140,000 sources of those data. And I think probably not great quote of six months access time to get that's right and actually work with it. And the company you're referencing was intel. So you guys know a lot about debt data, managing data, everything from your manufacturing, and obviously supporting a global organization for I t and run and ah, a lot of complexity and secrets and good stuff. So you know what have you guys leveraged as intel in the way you work with data and getting a good data pipeline. That's enabling you to kind of put that into these other solutions that you're providing to the customers, >>right? Well, it is, You know, it's absolutely a journey, and it doesn't happen overnight, and that's what we've you know. We've seen it at Intel on We see it with many of our customers that are on the same journey that we've been on. And so you know, this idea of building that pipeline it really starts with what kind of problems that you're trying to solve. What are the big issues that are holding you back that company where you see that competitive advantage that you're trying to get to? And then ultimately, how do you build the structure to enable the right kind of pipeline of that data? Because that's that's what machine learning and deep learning is that data journey. So really a lot of focus around you know how we can understand those business challenges bring forward those kinds of capabilities along the way through to where we structure our entire company around those assets and then ultimately some of the partnerships that we're gonna be talking about these companies that are out there to help us really squeeze the most out of that data as quickly as possible because otherwise it goes stale real fast, sits on the shelf and you're not getting that value out of right. So, yeah, we've been on the journey. It's Ah, it's a long journey, but ultimately we could take a lot of those those kind of learnings and we can apply them to our silicon technology. The software optimization is that we're doing and ultimately, how we talk to our enterprise customers about how they can solve overcome some of the same challenges that we did. >>Well, let's talk about some of those challenges specifically because, you know, I think part of the the challenge is that kind of knocked big data, if you will in Hadoop, if you will kind of off the rails. Little bit was there's a whole lot that goes into it. Besides just doing the analysis, there's a lot of data practice data collection, data organization, a whole bunch of things that have to happen before. You can actually start to do the sexy stuff of AI. So you know, what are some of those challenges. How are you helping people get over kind of these baby steps before they can really get into the deep end of the pool? >>Yeah, well, you know, one is you have to have the resource is so you know, do you even have the resource is if you can acquire those Resource is can you keep them interested in the kind of work that you're doing? So that's a big challenge on and actually will talk about how that fits into some of the partnerships that we've been establishing in the ecosystem. It's also you get stuck in this poc do loop, right? You finally get those resource is and they start to get access to that data that we talked about. It start to play out some scenarios, a theorize a little bit. Maybe they show you some really interesting value, but it never seems to make its way into a full production mode. And I think that is a challenge that has faced so many enterprises that are stuck in that loop. And so that's where we look at who's out there in the ecosystem that can help more readily move through that whole process of the evaluation that proved the r a y, the POC and ultimately move that thing that capability into production mode as quickly as possible that you know that to me is one of those fundamental aspects of if you're stuck in the POC. Nothing's happening from this. This is not helping your company. We want to move things more quickly, >>right? Right. And let's just talk about some of these companies that you guys are working with that you've got some reference architectures is data robot a Grid dynamics H 20 just down the road in Antigua. So a lot of the companies we've worked with with Cube and I think you know another part that's interesting. It again we can learn from kind of old days of big data is kind of generalized. Ai versus solution specific. Ai and I think you know where there's a real opportunity is not AI for a sake, but really it's got to be applied to a specific solution, a specific problem so that you have, you know, better chatbots, better customer service experience, you know, better something. So when you were working with these folks and trying to design solutions or some of the opportunities that you saw to work with some of these folks to now have an applied a application slash solution versus just kind of AI for ai's sake. >>Yeah. I mean, that could be anything from fraud, detection and financial services, or even taking a step back and looking more horizontally like back to that data challenge. If if you're stuck at the AI built a fantastic Data lake, but I haven't been able to pull anything back out of it, who are some of the companies that are out there that can help overcome some of those big data challenges and ultimately get you to where you know, you don't have a data scientist spending 60% of their time on data acquisition pre processing? That's not where we want them, right? We want them on building out that next theory. We want them on looking at the next business challenge. We want them on selecting the right models, but ultimately they have to do that as quickly as possible so that they can move that that capability forward into the next phase. So, really, it's about that that connection of looking at those those problems or challenges in the whole pipeline. And these companies like data robot in H 20 quasi. Oh, they're all addressing specific challenges in the end to end. That's why they've kind of bubbled up as ones that we want to continue to collaborate with, because it can help enterprises overcome those issues more fast. You know more readily. >>Great. Well, Jeremy, thanks for taking a few minutes and giving us the Intel side of the story. Um, it's a great company has been around forever. I worked there many, many moons ago. That's Ah, that's a story for another time, but really appreciate it and I'll interview you will go there. Alright, so super. Thanks a lot. So he's Jeremy. I'm Jeff Frick. So now it's time to go ahead and jump into the crowd chat. It's crowdchat dot net slash make ai real. Um, we'll see you in the chat. And thanks for watching

>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cube conversation. >>Alright, welcome back. Jeff Frick here. And we're excited for this next segment. We're joined by Jeremy Raider. He is the GM digital transformation and scale solutions for Intel Corporation. Jeremy, great to see you. Hey, thanks for having me. I love I love the flowers in the backyard. I thought maybe you ran over to the Japanese, the Japanese garden or the Rose Garden. Right To very beautiful places to visit in Portland. >>Yeah. You know, you only get for a couple Ah, couple weeks here, so we get the timing just right. >>Excellent. All right, so let's jump into it. Really? And in this conversation really is all about making Ai Riel. Um, and you guys are working with Dell and you're working with not only Dell, right? There's the hardware and software, but a lot of these smaller a solution provider. So what is some of the key attributes that that needs to make ai riel for your customers out there? >>Yeah. So you know, it's a It's a complex space. So when you can bring the best of the Intel portfolio, which is which is expanding a lot. You know, it's not just the few anymore you're getting into memory technologies, network technologies and kind of a little less known as how many resources we have focused on the software side of things optimizing frameworks and optimizing and in these key ingredients and libraries that you can stitch into that portfolio to really get more performance in value, out of your machine learning and deep learning space. And so you know what we've really done here with Dell? It has started to bring a bunch of that portfolio together with Dell's capabilities, and then bring in that ai's V partner, that software vendor where we can really take and stitch and bring the most value out of a broad portfolio. Ultimately using using the complexity of what it takes to deploy an AI capability. So a lot going on. They're bringing kind of the three legged stool of the software vendor hardware vendor dental into the mix, and you get a really strong outcome, >>right? So before we get to the solutions piece, let's stick a little bit into the intel world, and I don't know if a lot of people are aware that obviously you guys make CPUs and you've been making great CPS forever. But there's a whole lot more stuff that you've added, you know, kind of around the core CPU, if you will. In terms of of actual libraries and ways to really optimize the seond processors to operate in an AI world. I wonder if you can kind of take us a little bit below the surface on how that works. What are some of the examples of things you can do to get more from your Gambira Intel processors for AI specific applications of workloads? >>Yeah, well, you know, there's a ton of software optimization that goes into this. You know that having the great CPU is definitely step one. But ultimately you want to get down into the libraries like tensor flow. We have data analytics, acceleration libraries. You know, that really allows you to get kind of again under the covers a little bit and look at how do we have to get the most out of the kinds of capabilities that are ultimately used in machine learning in deep learning capabilities, and then bring that forward and trying and enable that with our software vendors so that they can take advantage of those acceleration components and ultimately, you know, move from, you know, less training time or could be a cost factor, right? Those are the kind of capabilities we want to expose to software vendors do these kinds of partnerships >>on, and that's terrific. And I do think that's a big part of the story that a lot of people are probably not as aware of that. There are a lot of these optimization opportunities that you guys have been leveraging for a while. So shifting gears a little bit right AI and machine learning is all about the data. And in doing a little research for this, I found actually you on stage talking about some company that had, like, 350 of road off 315 petabytes of of data, 140,000 sources of those data, and I think probably not great quote of six months access time to get it right and actually work with it. And the company you're referencing was intel. So you guys know a lot about debt data, managing data, everything from your manufacturing and and obviously supporting a global organization for I, t and Brian and, ah, a lot of complexity and secrets and good stuff. So you know what have you guys leveraged as intel in the way you work with data and getting a good data pipeline that's enabling you to kind of put that into these other solutions that you're providing to the customers, >>right? Well is, you know, it's absolutely a journey, and it doesn't happen overnight, and that's what we've you know. We've seen it at Intel on We see it with many of our customers that are on the same journey that we've been on. And so you know, this idea of building that pipeline it really starts with what kind of problems that you're trying to solve. What are the big issues that are holding you back that company where you see that competitive advantage that you're trying to get to? And then ultimately, how do you build the structure to enable the right kind of pipeline of that data? Because that's that's what machine learning and deep learning is that data journey. So really a lot of focus around you know how we can understand those business challenges bring forward those kinds of capabilities along the way through to where we structure our entire company around those assets. And then ultimately, some of the partnerships that we're gonna be talking about these companies that are out there to help us really squeeze the most out of that data as quickly as possible because otherwise it goes stale real fast, sits on the shelf, and you're not getting that value out of right. So, yeah, we've been on the journey. It's ah, it's a long journey. But ultimately we could take a lot of those those kind of learnings and we can apply them to our silicon technology. The software optimization is that we're doing and ultimately, how we talk to our enterprise customers about how they can solve overcome some of the same challenges that we did. >>Well, let's talk about some of those challenges specifically because, you know, I think part of the the challenge is that kind of knocked big data, if you will in Hadoop, if you will kind of off the rails. Little bit was, there's a whole lot that goes into it. Besides just doing the analysis There's a lot of data practice data collection, data organization, a whole bunch of things that have to happen before You can actually start to do the sexy stuff of AI. So you know, what are some of those challenges? How are you helping people get over kind of these baby steps before they can really get into the deep end of the pool? >>Yeah, well, you know, one is you have to have the resource is so you know, do you even have the resource is if you can acquire those Resource is can you keep them interested in that kind of work that you're doing? So that's a big challenge on and actually will talk about how that fits into some of the partnerships that we've been establishing in the ecosystem. It's also you get stuck in this poc do loop, right? You finally get those resource is and they start to get access to that data that we talked about. They start to play out some scenarios a theorize a little bit. Maybe they show you some really interesting value, but it never seems to make its way into a full production mode. And I think that is a challenge that is facing so many enterprises that are stuck in that loop. And so that's where we look at who's out there in the ecosystem That can help more readily move through that whole process of the evaluation that proved they are a why the POC and ultimately move that thing that capability into production mode as quickly as possible that you know that to me is one of those fundamental aspects of if you're stuck in the POC. Nothing's happening from this. This is not helping your company. We want to move things more quickly, >>right? Right. And let's just talk about some of these companies that you guys are working with that you've got some reference architectures is data robot a Grid Dynamics H 20 just down the road in Antigua. So a lot of the companies we've worked with with Cube and I think you know another part that's interesting. It again we can learn from kind of old days of big data is kind of generalized. Ai versus solution specific. Ai and I think you know where there's a real opportunity is not AI for a sake, but really it's got to be applied to a specific solution. A specific problem so that you have, you know, better chatbots. Better customer service experience, you know, better something. So when you were working with these folks and trying to design solutions or some of the opportunities that you saw to work with, some of these folks to now have an applied a application slash solution versus just kind of AI for ai's sake, >>Yeah. I mean, that could be anything from fraud, detection and financial services, or even taking a step back and looking more horizontally like back to that data challenge. If if you're stuck at the AI built a fantastic data lake, but I haven't been able to pull anything back out of it, who are some of the companies that are out there that can help overcome some of those big data challenges and ultimately get you to where you know, you don't have a data scientist spending 60% of their time on data acquisition pre processing? That's not where we want them, right? We want them on building out that next theory. We want them on looking at the next business challenge. We want them on selecting the right models, but ultimately they have to do that as quickly as possible so that they can move that that capability forward into the next phase. So, really, it's about that that connection of looking at those those problems or challenges in the whole pipeline. And these companies like Data robot in H 20 because you know, they're all addressing specific challenges in the end to end. That's why they've kind of bubbled up as ones that we want to continue to collaborate with, because it can help enterprises overcome those issues more fast. You know more readily. >>Great. Well, Jeremy, thanks for taking a few minutes and giving us the Intel side of the story. Um, it's a great company. Has been around forever. I worked there many, many moons ago. That's Ah, that's a story for another time. But really appreciate it and >>I'll interview you >>will go there. Alright, So super Thanks a lot. So he's Jeremy. I'm Jeff Frick. So now it's time to go ahead and jump into the crowd chat. It's crowdchat dot net slash make ai Really, Um, we'll see you in the chat. And thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

from around the globe it's the cube with digital coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 brought to you by Red Hat welcome back to the cubes coverage of Red Hat summit 2020 of course this year it's rather than all coming to San Francisco we are talking to red hat executives their partners and their customers where they are around the globe happy to welcome back one of our cube alumni Lisa Spellman who's a corporate vice president and general manager of the Intel Xeon and memory group Lisa thanks so much for joining us and where are you joining us from well thank you for having me and I'm a little further north than where the conference was gonna be held so I'm in Portland Oregon right now excellent yeah we've had you know customers from around the globe as part of the cube coverage here and of course you're near the mothership of Intel so Lisa you know but let's start of course you know the Red Hat partnership you know I've been the Intel executives on the keynote stage for for many years so talk about to start us off the Intel Red Hat partnership as it stands today in 2020 yeah you know on the keynote stage for many years and then actually again this year so despite the virtual nature of the event that we're having we're trying to still show up together and demonstrate together to our customers and our developer community really give them a sense for all the work that we're doing across the important transformations that are happening in the industry so we view this partnership in this event as important ways for us to connect and make sure that we have a chance to really share where we're going next and gather feedback on where our customers and that developer community need us to go together because it is a you know rich long history of partnership of the combination of our Hardware work and the open-source software work that we do with Red Hat and we see that every year increasing in value as we expand to more workloads and more market segments that we can help with our technology yeah well Lisa you know we've seen on the cube for for many years Intel strong partnerships across the industry from the data centers from the cloud I think we're gonna talk a little bit about edge for this discussion too though edge and 5g III think about all the hard work that Intel does especially with its partnership you know you talked about and I think that the early days of Red Hat you know the operating system things that were done as virtualization rolled out there's accelerations that gone through so when it comes to edge in 5g obviously big mega waves that we spend a lot of talking about what's what's Intel's piece obviously we know Intel chips go everywhere but when it comes to kind of the engineering work that gets done what are some of the pieces that Intel spork yeah and that's a great example actually of what I what we are seeing is this expansion of areas of workloads and investment and opportunity that we face so as we move forward into 5g becoming not the theoretical next thing but actually the thing that is starting to be deployed and transformed you can see a bunch of underlying work that Intel and Red Hat have done together in order to make that a reality so you look at they move from a very proprietary ASIC based type of workload with a single function running on it and what we've done is drive to have the virtualization capabilities that took over and provided so much value in the cloud data center also apply to the 5g network so the move to network function virtualization and software-defined networking and a lot of value being derived from the opportunity to run that on open source standard and have that open source community really come together to make it easier and faster to deploy those technologies and also to get good SLA s and quality of service while you're driving down your overall total cost of ownership so we've spent years working on that together in the 5g space and network space in general and now it's really starting to take off then that is very well connected to the edge so if you think about the edge as this point of content creation of where the actions happening and you start to think through how much of the compute or the value can I get out at the edge without everything having to go all the way back to the data center you start to again see how those open standards in very complex environments and help people manage their total cost of ownership and the complexity all right Lisa so when you're talking about edge solutions when I've been talking to Red Hat where their first deployments have really been talking to the service providers really I've seen it as an extension of what you were talking about network functions virtualization you know everybody talks about edges there's a lot of different edges out there the service providers being the first place we see things but you know all the way out even to the consumer edge and the device edge where Intel may or may not have you know some some devices there so help us understand you know where where you're sitting and where should we be looking as these technologies work you know it's a it's a great point we see the edge being developed by multiple types of organizations so yes the service providers are obviously there in so much as they already even own the location points out there if you think of all the myriad of poles with the the base stations and everything that's out there that's a tremendous asset to capitalize on you also see our cloud service provider customers moving towards the edge as well as they think of new developer services and capabilities and of course you see the enterprise edge coming in if you think of factory type of utilization methodologies or in manufacturing all of those are very enterprise based and are really focused on not that consumer edge but on the b2b edge or the you know the infrastructure edge is what you might think of it as but they're working through how do they add efficiency capability automation all into their existing work but making it better so at Intel the way that we look at that is it's all opportunities to provide the right foundation for that so when we look at the silicon products that we develop we gather requirements from that entire landscape and then we work through our silicon portfolio you know we have our portfolio really focused on the movement the storage and the processing of data and we try to look at that in a very holistic way and decide where the capability will best serve that workload so you do have a choice at times whether some new feature or capability goes into the CPU or the Zeon engine or you could think about whether that would be better served by being added into a smart egg type of capability and so those are just small examples of how we look at the entirety of the data flow in the edge and at what the use case is and then we utilize that to inform how we improve the silicon and where we add feature well Lisa as you were going through this it makes me also think about one of the other big mega waves out there artificial intelligence so lots of discussion as you were saying what goes where how we think about it cloud edge devices so how does AI intersect with this whole discussion of edge that we were just having yeah and you're probably gonna have to cut me off because I could go on for a long time on on this one but AI is such an exciting at capability that is coming through everywhere literally from the edge through the core network into the cloud and you see it infiltrating every single workload across the enterprise across cloud service providers across the network service providers so it is truly on its way to being completely pervasive and so again that presents the same opportunity for us so if you look at your silicon portfolio you need to be able to address artificial intelligence all the way from the edge to the cloud and that can mean adding silicon capabilities that can handle milliwatts like ruggedized super low power super long life you don't literally out at the edge and then all the way back to the data center where you're going for a much higher power at a higher capability for training of the models so we have built out a portfolio that addresses all of that and one of the interesting things about the edges people always think of it as a low compute area so they think of it as data collection but more and more of that data collection is also having a great benefit from being able to do an amount of compute and inference out at the edge so we see a tremendous amount of actual Zeon product being deployed out at the edge because of the need to actually deliver quite high-powered compute right there and that's improving customer experiences and it's changing use cases through again healthcare manufacturing automotive you see it in all the major fast mover edge industries yeah now we're really good points they make their Lisa we all got used to you know limitless compute in the cloud and therefore you know let's put everything there but of course we understand there's this little thing called the speed of light that makes it that much of the information that is collected at the edge can't go beyond it you know I saw a great presentation actually last year talking about the geosynchronous satellites they collect so much information and you know you can't just beam it back and forth so I better have some compute there so you know we've known for a long time that the challenge of you know of our day has been distributed architectures and edge just you know changes that you know the landscape and the surface area that we need the touch so much more when I think about all those areas obviously security is an area that comes up so how does Intel and its partners make sure that no matter where my data is and you talk about the various memory that you know security is still considered at each aspect of the environment oh it's a huge focus because if you think of people and phrases they used to say like oh we got to have the fat pipe or the dumb pipe to get you know data back and or there is no such thing as a dumb pipe anymore everything is smart the entire way through the lifecycle and so with that smartness you need to have security embedded from the get-go into that work flow and what people need to understand is they undergo their edge deployments and start that work is that your obligation for the security of that data begins the you collect that data it doesn't start when it's back to the cloud or back in the data center so you own it and need to be on it from the beginning so we work across our Silicon portfolio and then our software ecosystem to think through it in terms of that entire pipeline of the data movement and making sure that there's not breakdowns in each of the handoff chain it's a really complex problem and it is not one that Intel is able to solve alone nor any individual silicon or software vendor along the way and I will say that some of the security work over the past couple years has led to a bringing together of the industry to address problems together whether they be on any other given day a friend or a foe when it comes to security I feel like I've seen just an amazing increase over the past two two and a half years on the collaboration to solve these problems together and ultimately I think that leads to a better experience for our users and for our customers so we are investing in it not just at the new features from the silicon perspective but in also understanding newer and more advanced threat or attack surfaces that can happen inside of the silicon or the software component all right so Lisa final question I have for you want to circle back to where we started it's Red Hat summit this week-long partnerships as I mentioned we see Intel it all the cloud shows you partner with all the hardware software providers and the like so big message from Red Hat is the open hybrid cloud to talk about how that fits in with everything that Intel is doing it's an area of really strong interconnection between us and Red Hat because we have a vision of that open hybrid cloud that is very well aligned and the part about it is that it is rooted not just in here's my feature here's my feature from either one of us it's rooted in what our customers need and what we see our enterprise customers driving towards that desire to utilize the cloud to in prove their capabilities and services but also maintain that capability inside their own house as well so that they have really viable work load transformation they have opportunities for their total cost of ownership and can fundamentally use technology to drive their business forward all right well Lisa Spellman thank you so much for all the update from Intel and definitely look forward to seeing the breakouts the keynotes and the like yes me too all right lots more coverage here from the cube redhead summit 2020 I'm Stu minimun and thanks as always for watching [Music]

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston. This is an episode in the remote works, Citrix virtual series. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're in our Palo Alto studio here on this ongoing leadership series that we've been doing, reaching out to people in the community to get their take on what's going on with the COVID situation, what are best practices, what can we learn and specifically today, really the whole new way to work, and working from home. And we're really excited to have two guests on for this segment. The first one is Amy Hayworth. She is the Chief of Staff for HR for Citrix, joining us from Florida. Amy, great to see. >> Great to see you, Jeff. >> And also Tamara McCleary, who's been on many, many times coming to us from Denver. She is a well respected speaker, you've probably seen her doing more speaking than anything else, and also the CEO of Thulium. Tamara, great to see you. >> Thank you, I'm so excited for this conversation. >> Well, let's just jump into it. So it's so funny and doing a little homework, Amy, I came across a Professional Change Management executive conference, 2015 and you were talking about building change management as a profession and working from home was part of that and that was like five years ago and things creep along and then we have a light switch moment where there's no time to plan, there's no time to think, there's no time to implement things, it's, everyone must now stay at home. And so, outside the human tragedy, that is the COVID situation, we're not going to really speak to that here. But from a business point of view, suddenly with no warning, everyone had to work from home. From someone who's been in the profession of trying to drive change management through a process over time, what does that do for you? How do you digest that suddenly oh my goodness, we've got this light switch moment which is a forcing function that may have never come, but now we have to go? I wonder what your take is. >> I think the thing that get me most excited about this light switch moment is it is showing all of us that we are capable beyond what we ever thought we were when it comes to change. We've been called to take a leap, and for much of my experience in the organizational change management field, we spend a lot of time talking about managing resistance and the pushback about change and there's even this thing that drives me crazy, which is change is hard. I don't know why we tell ourselves that message. And I think what this is showing us is that number one, change is inevitable, it's going to happen. There is very little control that we actually have, but also we are more resilient, more adaptable. We're capable of change than many of us knew that we were. And it is calling up for me, what do we need to put in place within organizations to cultivate resilience? Because one of the things I think this is making all of us very aware is how volatile the world actually is. And it's also laid bare where we are strong individually and able to cope and where we also may need to do a little bit of practice and some very intentional resilience building. Though I think the conversation around the whole change management field is about to change and my hope is that focus turns more to resilience than it is to managing change. >> It's interesting 'cause a lot of just the chatter that's out there, is about Zoom. Do I use Zoom? Do I not use Zoom? Is it secure? All this other, people like to jump into the technology piece. But really, we had your boss on the other day, Donna Kimmel, the EVP and Chief People Officer, Citrix and she broke it down into three buckets. Culture was number one, physical space is number two and digital space was number three. And I thought it was really interesting that she really leads with empathy and human factors and I think that it's easy to forget those, but bringing up simple things that not only are you working from home, but guess what, your kids are home too and your spouse is home too. And they have meetings and they have Zoom calls, they have to do it or the other dog is still running around and all the other kinds of distractions. So the human factors are so, so important. Tamara, one of your early keynotes about your early development was in your early career working with people who are at the end of their life. And I know it helped you develop an empathy and really a prioritization that I think a lot of people are probably getting today that maybe they haven't thought about, what is truly important, what is truly meaningful. And this again, is this forcing function to say let's pump the brakes a little bit, take a step back and think about what's really important and the human factors. Again, your take on this crazy situation. >> I think you're absolutely right Jeff, and the fact that really what this has done, to Amy's point, yes we are very capable of change, but we're mostly so resistant and unwilling to change. And it's not because we don't want to, it's because we fear what will happen if we do change. And sometimes it's like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. And right now what has been forced upon us is to really think about critical issues. So when you're faced with a lack of toilet paper and uncertainty about your survival rate, you start to think about things in terms of say Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You're looking at that base level, that safety piece. And when people go to safety, they have really left that area of self actualization in what do I want to be, what do I want to do? And it's more about, oh no, what have I done? Do I like my life? I'm stuck here at home, wherever you're sheltering in place and am I really enjoying my life? Am I experiencing my life? And what we really have experienced through being forced to get on to video conferencing, how many of you out there are doing video conferencing like a billion times a day? We're being forced to really see each other as human beings. And that means whether you're the CEO or you're the EVP of global blah, blah, it doesn't matter. What matters is your dog is still barking, your child is still running around and needs something from you in that moment when you happen to be on a call. Because as we all know, with kids, when you say, I can't be bothered for the next 30 minutes, what do you think is going to happen? That's exactly the time when they need more grapes. So I think that what it does is it levels the playing field and it shows us all how human we are. It shows us our strengths as Amy pointed out, and it also shows us our communal frailty. >> So let's get into some of the specifics about what people are feeling. Citrix just commissioned this report put on by one pole, pretty timely, comes out in April, 2020, about working from home. And I think there was really some interesting stuff, still connectivity and bandwidth, still the biggest challenge that people have. Can I even get online, was the number one problem. And when they do, their wifi is slow and there's single sign on. All these things that we've been talking about for years and years and years. I mean, why, why Amy, have we still not gotten it done? It's fascinating to me that in 2020, we still have internet connectivity issues and people don't know how to turn on their microphone on their Zoom call, we're so far behind. >> Yeah, Jeff, I think what we're seeing is number one, it takes practice, then the need to be familiar with all these tools. I also have talked to many parents who first day of homeschool, my son tells me I can't call it homeschool 'cause it's different, it's virtual school, he says it's very different. But that first day, especially families with multiple children trying to get onto a Zoom call with their class, Heron is trying to work, possibly two parents in the house are connected. Our home WiFi networks just haven't taken this kind of load before, but very quickly I think we needed to realize as an organization that this is not work from home, this is working at home during the global pandemic and it is very different. So you mentioned that need to lead with empathy and to really understand what's going on, and I think that's so true and just that the humanness of what we've experienced, that one full research really talked about a few epic moments of mishap, whether it's taking a call from the garage, I have a colleague who would take from the car on the street, still sheltering in place, but the only quiet place to go to take a call. We have a legend in our Singapore office. There's a salesperson who made record numbers working from his garage for a month. So there are all sorts of heroics taking place to balance than in the midst of that when technology isn't acting as we would hope it would under normal circumstances, having to adjust quickly, whether that means staggering schedules, working through accommodations, teachers, however it needs to happen but I think the reality and the acceptance, going back to that humanness and empathy is that we all have to shift our mindset about what work means and even are at work. We've built up a lot of these polishished buttoned up personas and when we are able to actually let some of that down, I think what we're starting to see is connection on a much deeper level amongst teams and among colleagues. >> I'm just looking at the survey at how few people think that this is going to roll over into a little bit more of a permanent form. Only 37% think my organization in general will be more relaxed about remote working. I think staff will be allowed to work from home more regularly, 36%. We had Marten Mickos on and he ran MySQL before it got bought by Sun many moons ago. He talked that he had a distributed team from day one and he laughed. He said, "It's so much easier to fake it at the office, "to look busy versus when you're remote." As you just said Amy, you're only judged by your deliverables. And I thought it was so funny in your blog posts from earlier this year that when managers start managing by outcome and deliverable rather than assuming as good work's getting done because someone showed up at the office, I mean this is ridiculous that people are still judging things based on activity, not outcome. And we're even seeing now all these new tools that people are introducing in the marketplace. I can tell you how often your people are on Zoom and how many hours on the VPN. What are we measuring? We should be measuring outcomes and the piece that comes up over and over is trust. And if I can't trust you to deliver outcomes, I probably have a bigger problem than managing your day to day. Tamara, you see this all the time in terms of the trust and how important this is to relationships. >> I do and in fact our workforce at Thulium has always been a remote workforce. And for the way that I've built our organization is treat everybody like an adult and get your work done. And we do base everything upon productivity versus FaceTime. And I think that the reason some of these larger organizations have had this concept of show up having that FaceTime means that whoever gets there the earliest and leaves the latest somehow has been a better employee, it's not true. It is about productivity. And I think those wise organizations that look at how much they can save with the costs of like AC heat, the building cost, having a brick and mortar for everyone to come into it is very costly. And it's an old paradigm that a lot of middle managers have, which is this control piece. And that if the people are there in the office, they've got more control. And actually what we find is you don't need that control, especially when you look at the younger generational cohort coming up, how they have a totally different view of work. And we've talked a lot about the future of work and the gig economy, and what this COVID pandemic has done for us is to show us that actually work does get done at home. And in fact in some respects, more work gets done at home because it's harder to stop working when your work is happening right there at home. And so it does blur the lines and the boundaries between the work life than the home life. And so I think you get a lot more out of your employees when they work from home. >> It's funny, when Donna was on, she brought up a really interesting topic. She said, "Every time somebody pushes back on that, "can't be done from home." This job, this person, this type of task can't be done from home. The question should always be like, why? It almost sounds like when you move the whole cloud conversation that we've been tracking, went from, when should I move stuff to cloud, to why shouldn't you move to cloud? And it's not, does it work on a mobile, it should be mobile first. And now this conversation is moving this to, why can't somebody do it from home, as opposed to it has to be done from the office? So I think even just the relative flip of the context of setting up the question seems to be changing. That's why it surprised me that so few people think that it's going to go back. It clearly, especially as this goes on for a while, new behaviors become habits and they become normalized and hopefully, the senior management pays attention to the outcome and again, not this activity which is really not, that's not what you want people to do, you want them to actually get stuff done. >> Jeff and Amy, the other thing I was going to say is, Amy, when you look at the report that Citrix has put out, how many people are even going to be able to go back to work when kids aren't going back to school? And then we have summer, piggybacking onto that, so now you've got parents who have kids at home, what is that outlook? To me, it's not just this simple, okay, it's over, let's get back to work guys, because the rest of our life has completely shifted as well. >> That was actually my conversation today, is starting to really think about holistically when it comes to policies, programs, what are we putting in place for the summer? And not only that, but even some of our employees who have been alone through this, I think at the beginning, there was a very large shift on those who had children or elder care to think about. And at some point, at least in this half of the world, about last week, we really started to hear, worried about this person who's been alone by themselves in their apartment sheltering for over a month. So I think if they start to look at the variety of experiences people are having, really being sensitive to different personas in the organization, different needs, different emotions that are happening and we even start to think about, what does that mean to come back to work? And I know countries and organizations are being very cognizant about doing that. safely, in a very gradual  way of thinking about it, but it starts to get very, very complex very quickly and also from just let's do this well because there's a whole new set. Jeff, you bring up all new set of questions of employees asking, I wasn't allowed to work from home prior, I would like to do that more often now, new conversations with managers about, well, how are we going to measure results? There's a lot of work to be done between now and then, whatever what then is, to really ensure that we help everyone be successful. And I think the conversation we're having, it's likely not going to be one or the other. The new normal is not the old normal and we're not sure what it is but most likely, there's going to be some sort of hybrid working arrangement. Right now, the playing field is leveled and that in and itself is a very different work from home experience. What happens when it's hybrid again and there are some who are remote, some who are in the office, how do we make sure that it's equitable and all the voices have equal opportunity to chime in? Because when people are in the office and their colleague or two is remote, it's not a level of conversation in an organization. So whether that's establishing norms or really just starting to create behaviors where if one person's remote, then everybody's remote no matter if you're in the office or not, you dial in via go to meeting or whatever collaboration tool you're , so all sorts of things to think about, but I guess that is our ecosystem of work is going to change for sure. >> It was so funny in your blog posts, you talked a little bit about that as well. And one of the little paragraphs was, who gets to do it? It's like this binary decision, you can either work from home or you can't. And there's this whole second order impacts that we see on infrastructure, there's nobody in the trains or there's nobody on the freeways. You think, wow, we actually have a lot of freeways if everyone is not on them at the same time. So, begs a lot of questions are why is everybody driving to work at 8:30 in the morning to work on their laptop? Now clearly if you're in construction or service trades and you've got a truck and you got to go do something on site, they have to be there. But I think hopefully what this will do is help people as you're discussing, look at those who can. And even if it's one day a week, two days a week, one day a week, every couple of weeks. The impact on infrastructure, the impact on traffic, the environment, mental health, Amy, you talked about mental health, sitting in a car for an hour each way, every day certainly is not helping anybody feel better about themselves or get more work done. So I think there are so many benefits if you just look at it in the right context, focused on who can, not who can't and the how and the why and the enabler. But it's really interesting, we've talked a lot about the physical space and the cultural space. Imagine if this happened in 2006, before the iPhone came out, the smartphone. Think of the crazy amount of tools that we do have. I mean right now, we're talking and we spread out all over the country. So we're actually in a really fortunate space in terms of the digital infrastructure that we have in place to enable these things. And I know Citrix, you guys have been in the lead of supporting this forever, now even have a whole set up of resources, what's it called, the Citrix Remote Work Hub for people to get resource to figure out everything from the mental health to the WiFi connectivity, to all these other little things as Tamara said, how do you manage the kids and the dog and your significant other that also has Zoom meetings that they have to attend? So it's so many resources that people need to use and not feel uncomfortable that they're alone and could use a little bit of an assist. >> Absolutely well said. When this quickly became a forced experiment to work remote, Citrix has 30 years of history helping enable successful remote work in a secure way and the first thing that we wanted to do was be of service. So pulling together these resources has been a big project and we're so glad to be able to provide this tool set and we truly do hope that it makes this transition stronger, better, it will continue to grow and to evolve even as our own experiences evolve, new challenges arise, but we definitely want to keep it fresh and keep meeting the need that's out there, both internal for Citrix as much as in as long as we've been doing, we don't have it all figured out, we are learning too, this is unchartered territory for everyone, but also to take what we are learning and put it out there in a very transparent way. >> Right, I want to-- >> You know, I was-- >> Go ahead, Tamara. >> Sorry, but there was just something so crazy, Jeff, about the study that Citrix put out. And Amy, I wanted to bring this up to you because you said they're coworkers like, well, so-and-so lives alone, I wonder if they're okay or if they're lonely. But in the study, barely a quarter of the individuals reported any loneliness. I find that to be pretty shocking. >> It is shocking and I think it really speaks to how quickly those happy hours, the Zoom Happy Hours or the gatherings and some of the creativity that started to pop up, but yeah, you made a great point, Tamara, that was surprising and I'm curious if that will continue to be the case. (murmurs) >> But I guess maybe some of us when we got home, we were like, wow, this isn't so bad after all. And then can you imagine? So Jeff, if only 28% of people experienced any loneliness, imagine when you can have peace and quiet in your home again and still work. I think that this really is a lot more delicious than a lot of us anticipated it would be. And, what a grand social science experiment this has been! It's phenomenal. >> The fact that everyone is experiencing it at the same time globally just blows my mind. I was here for the earthquake, I was in Portland for Mount Saint Helens, I've been through a few little things here and there, but those are still regional, there's still a safe space, there's still people that don't have that story. Everyone, six or 7 billion people will have a where were you in March, 2020 story, which is fascinating. And then as you said, it's not only the work from home, there's no time to plan and no time to put infrastructure and, oh by the way, the kids are home too, and school is also from home. So in terms of an accelerant, it's just gasoline on the fire. But I want to jump in a little bit about one of the things you talked about Amy and you'll take camera 'cause you're doing it in your own company, and is in terms of establishing norms. I think people are maybe not thinking about the fact that they either need to establish new norms or they need to be very clear on the communication of what the norms are so that everybody is as you said Amy, feels comfortable in this new space because we have norms at work and now we have to have these new norms and there's all kinds of funny stuff going on in terms of we talked about dogs and kids, that this and that dressed, you're not dressed, you put makeup on, it's funny in the survey, do you take a shower? Only 30 some odd people take a shower every day, which I thought was kind of-- unexpected >> What about the shoe comment? Did you believe that, Jeff, where people actually would wear their shoes to their death? Well, I'll tell you, they didn't ask the women because the women would not be wearing high heels at home if they didn't have. >> They didn't specify which shoes, Tamara, they just said shoes. So maybe the more comfortable flats were the ones that were coming out. But I'm just curious on establishing social norms. Tamara, I'll let you go first, how did you establish them? Was it hard to do? Did they self self-generate and as a leader, do you have to police it or is it self policing? How's that working? And then Amy, from your point in terms of formal communication in a much bigger organization and being part of the HR office, one might say, isn't that already part of HR's charter? But how's that different now? Tamara, I'll let you go first. >> Sure, it's a great question because since we do have a remote workforce, one of the most salient things that I found to be critically important for productivity and collaboration and even cohesion and decreasing those silos between business unit is making sure that we form a community. And so what I mean by that is we have and always have had, we've been using video conferencing since before the pandemic and we have video conferencing meetings where video is on, so that's one of the parameters, is everybody needs to see everyone else's faces, and we have a morning kickoff meeting, an all hands meeting and then we have an end of week one as well and part of that piece, we call a standup where people either share something that's either a challenge within their workplace or with a customer or even in their own personal life, and then they end on something to celebrate because I think it's really important for us to cultivate that. But it really helps the teams to get to know one another. So just because someone in this business unit doesn't work with someone in this business unit, they know one another because of these team meetings that we have. And so I think creating a culture of positivity and collaboration versus competition and creating a culture where people feel a part of a team and a part of something bigger and where they see that their contribution makes a difference to the whole, creates a really delicious community that helps people feel valued at work. And I think with a remote workforce, you have got to pay attention to how you are creating that community and that feeling and sense of value to each and every individual within the organization. >> It's a very different kind of a challenge. Amy, your thoughts on more of a formal approach to establishing social norms to some of these big organizations, or do you treat it differently as a big organization or is it just a bunch of small little clusters of people that work together? >> I have so many thoughts on this, so I would love to have a two hour dialogue with both of you on this topic. Couple thoughts, there's implicit norms that develop organically, and then there's the explicit ones which for whatever reason we seem more hesitant to have very explicit conversations about norms. I don't know if people think it's tedious or something like that, I'm not sure, I haven't done that research yet. But in times of transition, it's so incredibly important just even for efficiency to add certainty, to make sure that everyone has the same message, same expectation to lean a little more heavily on the exquisite norms. Talking about how do we want to begin our meeting, let's reserve the first 10 minutes and just catch up like we would in the hallway. Some of that is a shift to how those meetings probably were happening two months ago. So making sure that everyone understands is that expectation and even little bit more of a warmup question. How's everybody feeling today? And even getting more specific, there is a couple of organizational gurus who I have been following quite a bit lately, Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans, Aaron wrote a book called "Brave New Work" and they also have a podcast, but they really talk about the organization as an operating system. And when we look at norms, the norms are so much a part of that operating system and getting really clear about who does what here. There're things like how are not taken, how are we following up, in our current climate, who's checking on who? And so having some of those explicit conversations I think are incredibly important. And also for me with some of the work that I've been doing over the last six weeks is trying to harness goodness across the globe. So we have a group of site leaders who meet twice a week, their charge is to look after their location. So every location in the Citrix ecosystem that has more than 20 employees has a designated site leader during this time. And in bigger sites, they have pulled together committees, they're doing things that are local level to keep that site engaged, but what we're also looking to do is harness the best of the best. Some really amazing things, I did a radio calisthenic last night with our team in Tokyo. So something very true and personal to the Japanese culture but other sites, they're doing coffee chats and having drop-ins, celebrity guests, organizational leaders that are pretty high profile just popping in and out actively to have a very authentic Q&A conversations. There's some really inventive ideas to keep people engaged and also possibly establish new norm and I think that the question for me is, what do people like so much that they decide that it stays in place? When we do have of that thing and people are in the office more often, what level of connectivity will we keep? Even, will people start showering every day again? Some of these things, who knows what's going to happen? >> You make me want to go down to a to RNB and look in the meeting rooms at Intel, they used to have a very defined meeting, culture meeting, process meeting establishment, super efficient just like they're making chips. I wonder if they've changed a little bit in light of what's going on, but final note in terms of frequency and variety of communications. Both of you now have mentioned in the communications with your people and what you're hearing about is one is, you got to increase the frequency just period. And in fact, you might actually be communicating more frequently 'cause you don't necessarily chat all the time in the hallways when you're physically together. And the other thing that strikes me is the variety. It's not just the meeting, it's not just information exchange, it's touching base with community, it's establishing deeper relationships, it's doing some social things that, kind of the variety and the frequency of direct communication person to person, just not necessarily closer than six feet within one another has to go up dramatically, and is, as you're seeing in best practices in this new world. Amy, why don't you go first? >> I'm seeing a lot more Slack usage, we are an organization that has a multitude of tools to choose from, Slack being one of them, but highly engaged Slack community. The other thing that's become very clear as an insight is the more authentic the communication, the better. So our CEO, David Henshall has been doing video pieces and they had become increasingly more personal about whether it's his space where he exercises what he's doing for exercise, and the employee response has been deep appreciation for feeling several degrees more connected to our senior leadership. Other senior leaders on the team have profiled their own work from home antic in a very humorous way and so just finding inventive ways to leverage the communication vehicles we have, but at a level that is very true to the situation we're in and very human at their core. >> So Tamara, let me ask you a followup on that. You're big on social, it's a big part of your business helping other companies do better at social and engage in social, and it strikes me, especially in the real senior leadership ranks, there are those who tweet just to pick a platform, like Michael Dell, Sanjay Poonen, some CUBE alumni that you know, and then there's some that don't. And again, we talked about the contrast of IBM now, Ginny didn't tweet now, the new CEO announces it on LinkedIn. When you talk to CEOs and leaders about getting involved in social, I'm sure a lot of them that don't do it, just say the risk reward is not there, why am I going to expose some little personal tidbit of myself when the potential harm is great? But as we just heard from Amy, people like to know who the person is, people want to relate to who the person is. That's kind of part of the whole CUBE thing that we figured out a long time ago, is people are interested in the people that are behind the technology in the companies in the implementation. So how do you advise people, what do you see to convince them that, hey, it's actually in your best interest to show a little vulnerability, to show a little humanity, to maybe be scared sometimes and not necessarily have the right answer? How do you help coach them that these are good things, not bad things? >> It's so brilliant you brought this up, Jeff, because with the pandemic, a lot of the executives that were not on social media all of a sudden wanted to be on social media, and how do I do this, and how do I set up my thought leadership? Because this was a very primary mode of communication. And I think what we're seeing is that you do see a lot of the progressive CEOs and executive members on social media and then what you've outlined is there was a hesitancy by a lot of the CEOs who come from a different paradigm in which the hierarchal structure was such that they got to this level and why do I need to be on social media? And what we're seeing is that this push from the younger generational cohorts, which is they don't really see that hierarchal structure at all, and they want to be able to communicate with their CEO as much as they want to communicate with their manager. And when they can't, there is this distrust and you brought up the trust piece, which is huge. And I do know that a lot of global business leaders in highly regulated industries have been afraid, like in the financial services industry because there are a lot of rules and regulations. So I can understand and appreciate their hesitancy to be on social media, which is like a bit of the wild West. And you see those that are really pretty insulated from anything that they do, you can see like Elon Musk can tweet whatever he wants to tweet, and a lot of executives don't feel that they have that same sort of freedom. And so how we work with them, we work in the B2B and enterprise space is about what is it that you want to be known for? What is it that you're passionate about that would, Amy's point, be uplifting to those who not only work internally, your internal stakeholders, but to even your customers or those on the external, and stick to that? So no, you don't need to tweet about your political feelings, you don't need to tweet about sensitive subjects. We always say stay away from politics and religion, but you can absolutely establish a very authentic transparent, vulnerable thought leadership about the things that you care about. And we say pick three things. What three things do you want people to think of when you're not in the room? Pick three adjectives and then construct your editorial calendar, what you're doing on social media around how those three things are going to come to life. Through all of your email? Through your videos that you share with your community? And also what you're talking about on LinkedIn, Twitter and no, I'm not advising any of the executives to get on TikTok, but I do advise them to be on LinkedIn and Twitter. >> Matt Eastwood is starting to play with TikTok, so I don't know if you follow him on that, but he's a budding Casey Neistat. So I think he's getting into the TikTok thing, or even just TikTok edits, it's great. We could go on and on and on, and I really appreciate the time and it's just interesting again, pulling from Amy's blog post about leadership and you lead with trust, accountability, vulnerability, inclusion and communication. I think those are all human things and I think are so important. So final word, assuming things are going to get better in let's just say a year from now, we get back together and talk about how the new way to work has changed in a post COVID world, what do you hope that we'll be talking about that's different a year from now than we are today? Beyond obviously the COVID itself? Amy, you first. >> Wow. To narrow that down, I hope we are talking about how organizations have invested in helping our people find their strengths and feed with resilience and to understand what it is that helps them operate at their best, no matter what situation that you're in. >> That's great. Tamara? >> Me, Jeff, I'm going to hope that we are talking about the technology that's available a year from now that's going to help us have a much more immersive experience remotely working. So we'll be talking about hopefully things like the haptic internet, well that haptic interface with tactile internet and how AR, VR and mixed reality settings will help us as remote authors to feel like we're actually in meetings and having the same sort of experience that oftentimes we think we get only when we're at the building with everybody else. So I hope we're talking about how technology is really moving the needle forward to helping our remote workforce have that same experience and camaraderie and team building that they do in the physical space. >> Great. Well and again, there's this digital is different than physical, we're not together physically and we can't be right now, but we're together digitally. And so it's not the same, it's different, but there's a lot of good things about it too. So thank you both for taking the time, this has been a really great conversation. Amy, I agree with you, we could go for another couple of hours, but I think the crew would start throwing things at me. So I think we'll have to cut it off here. Thanks again and stay safe and really appreciate the time. >> Thanks, Jeff. >> Thank you. >> All right, thank you for tuning in, thanks for watching theCUBE, we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Welcome to this special CUBE conversation. I'm John Furrier here in Palo Alto, California. In our remote studio, we have a quarantine crew here during this COVID-19 crisis. Here talking about the crisis and the impact to business and overall work. Joined by a great guest Dustin Kirkland, CUBE alumni, who's now the chief product officer at Apex Clearing. This COVID-19 has really demonstrated to the mainstream world stage, not just inside the industry that we've been covering for many, many years, that the idea of at-scale means something completely different, and certainly DevOps and Agile is going mainstream to survive, and people are realizing that now. No better guest than have Dustin join us, who's had experiences in open source. He's worked across the industry from Ubuntu, Open Stack, Kubernetes, Google, Canonical. Dustin, welcome back to the CUBE here remotely. Looking good. >> Yeah, yeah, thanks, John. Last time we talked, I was in the studio, and here we are talking over the internet. This is a lot of fun. >> Well, I really appreciate it. I know you've been in your new role since September. A lot's changed, but one of the things why I wanted to talk with you is because you and I have talked many times around DevOps. This has been the industry conversation. We've been inside the ropes. Now you're starting to see, with this new scale of work-at-home forcing all kinds of new pressure points, giving people the realization that the entire life with digital and with technology can be different, doesn't have to be augmented with their existing life. It's a full-on technology driven impact, and I think a lot of people are learning that, and certainly, healthcare and finance are two areas, in particular, that are impacted heavily. Obviously, people are worried about the economy, and we're worried about people's lives. These are two major areas, but even outside that, there's new entrepreneurs right now that I know who are working on new ventures. You're seeing people working on new solutions. This is kind of bringing the DevOps concept to areas that quite frankly weren't there. I want to get your thoughts and reaction to that. >> Yeah, without a doubt, I mean, the whole world has changed in 30 short days. We knew something was amiss in China. We knew that there was a lot of danger for people. The danger for business, though, didn't become apparent until vast swathes of the work force got sent home. And there's a number of businesses and industries that are coping relatively well with this. Certainly those who have previously adopted, or have experienced, doing work remotely, doing business by video, teleconference, having resources in the cloud, having people and expertise who are able to continue working at nearly 100% capacity in 100% remote environments. There's a lot of technology behind that, and there are some industries, and in particular, some firms, some organizations, that were really adept and were able to make that shift almost overnight. Maybe there were a couple bumps along the way, some VPN settings needed to be tweaked, and Zoom settings needed to be changed a little bit, but for many, this was a relatively smooth transition, and we may be doing this for a very long time. >> Yeah, I want to get your thoughts, before we get into some of the product stuff that you guys are working on and some other things. What's your general reaction to people in your circles, inside industry and tech industry, and outside, what are you seeing a reaction to this new scale, work from home, social distancing, isolation, what are your observations? >> Yeah, you know, I think we're in for a long haul. This is going to be the new normal for quite some time. I think it's super important to check on the people you care about, and before we get into dev and tech, check on the people you care about, especially people who either aren't yet respecting the social distancing norms and impress upon them the importance that, hey, this is about you, this is about the people you care about, it's about people you don't even know, because there are plenty of people who can carry this and not even know. So definitely check on the people that you care about. And reach out to those people and stay in touch. We all need one another more than ever, right? I manage a team, and it's super important, I think, to understand how much stress everyone is under. I've got over a dozen people that report to me. Most of them have kids and families. We start out our weekly staff meeting now, and we bring the kids in. They're curious, they want to know what's going on. First five, 10 minutes of our meeting is meet the family. And that demystifies some of what we're doing, and actually keeps the other 50 minutes of the meeting pretty quiet in our experience. But it's really humanized an aspect of work from home that's always been a bit taboo. We laugh about the reporter in Korea whose kid and his wife came in during the middle of a live on-air interview. There's certainly, I've worked from home for almost 12 years, like, those are really uncomfortable situations. Until about a month ago, when that just became the norm. And from that perspective, I think there's a humanization that we're far more understanding of people who work from home now than ever before. >> It's funny, I've heard people say, you know, my wife didn't know what I did until I started working at home. And comments to seeing people's family, and saying, wow, that's awesome, and just bringing a personal connection, not just this software mechanism that connects people for some meeting, and we've all been on those meetings. They go long, and you're sitting there, and you're turning the camera off so you can sneeze. All those things are happening. But when you start to think about, beyond it being a software mechanism, that it's a social equation right now. People have shared experiences. It's been an interesting time. >> Yeah, and just sharing those experiences. We do a think internal on our Slack channel every day. We try to post a picture. We call it hashtag recess, and at recess we take a picture of walking the dogs, or playing with the kids, or gardening, or whatever it is, going for a run. Again, just trying to make the best of this, take advantage of, you know, it's hard working from home, but trying to take advantage of some of those once in a lifetime opportunities we have here. And my team has started pub quiz on Fridays, so we're mostly spread across, in the U.S., so we're able to do this at a reasonable hour, but the last couple of Fridays, we've jumped on a Zoom, downloaded a pub trivia game, most of us a crack a beer, or glass of wine, or a cocktail, and you know, it's just, it actually puts a punctuate mark on the end of the week, puts a period on the end of the week. Because that's the other thing about this, man, if you don't have some boundaries, it's easy to go from an eight or nine hour normal day to 10, 12, 14, 16 hour days, Saturday bleeds into Sunday bleeds into Monday, and then the rat race takes over. >> You got to get the exercise. You have a routine. That's my experience. What's your advice for people who are working at home for the first time? Do you have any best practices? >> I actually had a blog post on this about two weeks ago and put up almost a shopping list of some of the things that I've assembled here in the work from home environment. It's something I've been doing since 2008, so it's been there for a good long while. It's a little bit hard to accumulate all the technology that you need, but I would say, most important, have a space, some kind of space. Some people have more room or less, but even just a corner in a master bedroom with a standup desk, some space that is your own, that the family understands and respects. The other best practice is set some time boundaries. I like to start my day early. I'll try to break more a little bit for that recess, see the family some, and then knock off at a reasonable hour, so establish those boundaries. Yeah, I've got a bunch of tips in that blog post I can shoot you after this, but it's the sort of thing that, be a bit understanding, too, of other people in this situation for the first time, perhaps. So you know, offer whatever help and assistance you can, and be understanding that, man, things just aren't like they used to be. >> That's great advice. Thanks for the insights. Want to get to something that I see happening, and this always kind of happens when you see these waves where there's a downturn, or there's some sort of an event. In this case it's catastrophic in the way it vectored in like this and the impact that we just discussed. But what comes out of it is creativity around entrepreneurial activity, and certainly reinvention, businesses reforming, retrenching, resetting, whatever word, pivot, digital transformation, there's plenty of words for it. But this is the time where people can actually get a lot done. I always comment, in my last interview I did, you know, Shakespeare wrote Macbeth when he was sheltering in place, and Isaac Newton invented calculus, so you can actually get some work done. And you're starting to see people look at the new technology and start disrupting old incumbent markets, because now more than ever, things are exposed. The opportunity of recognition becomes clearer. So I wanted to get your thoughts on this. You're a product person, you've got a lot of product management skills, and you're currently taking this DevOps to financial market with fintech and your business, so you're applying known principles and software and tech and disrupting an existing industry. I think this is going to be a common trend for the next five years. >> Yeah, so on that first note, I think you're exactly right. There will be a reckoning, and there will be a ton of opportunities that come out of this for the already or the rapidly transformed digital native, digital focused business. There will be some that survive and thrive here. I think you're seeing a lot of this with the popularity of Zoom that has spiked recently. I think you're going to see technologies like DocuSign being used in places that, some of those places that still require wet signatures, but you just can't get to the notary and sign a, I don't know, a refi on your mortgage or something like that. And so I think you're going to see a bunch of those. The biggest opportunities are really around our education system. I've got two kids at home, and I'm in a pretty forward thinking school district in Austin, Texas, you know, but that's not the norm where our teachers are conducting classes and assignments over Zoom. I've got a kindergartener and a second grader. There's somewhat limits to what they can do with technology. I think you're going to see a lot of entrepreneurial solutions that develop in that space, and that's going to go from K through 12, and then into college. You think about how universities have had to shift and cancel classes, and what's happening with graduation. I've got a six and an eight year old, and I've been told I need to save $200,000 apiece for each of them to go to college, which is just an astounding number, especially to someone like me, who went to an inexpensive public university on a scholarship. Saving that kind of money for college, and just thinking about how much more efficient our education system might be with a lot more digital, a lot more digital education, digital testing and classes, while still maintaining the college experience, what that's going to look like in 10 years. I think we're going to see a lot of changes over these next 18 months to our educational system. >> Dustin, talk about the event dynamics. Physical events don't exist currently. Certainly, when they do come back, they should, and they will, the role of the virtual space is going to be highlighted and new opportunities will emerge. You mentioned education. People learn, not just for school, whether they're kids, whether they're professionals, learning and collaboration, work tools are going to reshape. What's your take on that marketplace, because we got to do virtual events. You can't just replicate a physical event and move it to digital. It's a complex system. >> Yeah, you're talking about an entire industry. We saw the Google Events, Google Next, Google IO, the Microsoft Events, just across the, I'm here in Austin, Texas, all of South by Southwest was canceled, which is just, it's breathtaking. When does that come back, and what does it look like? Is it a year or two or more from now? Events is where I spend my time, and when I get on a plane, and I fly somewhere, I'm usually going to a conference or trade show. Think about the sports industry. People who get on a plane, they go to an NFL game. John, I don't have all the answers, man, but I'm telling you, that entire industry is rapidly, rapidly going to evolve. I hope and pray that one day we're back to a, I can go back to a college football game again. I hope I can sit in a CUBE studio at a CUBE Con or an Open Stack or some other conference again. >> Hey, we should do a rerun, because I was watching the Patriots game last night, Tom Brady beating the Chiefs, October from last year. It was one of the best games of the season, went down to the wire, and I watched it, and I'm like, okay, that's Tom Brady, he's still in the Patriot uniform on the TV. Do we do reruns? This is the question. Right now, there's a big void for the next three months. What do we do? Do we replay the highlights from the CUBE? Do we have physical get togethers with Zoom? What's your take on how people should think about these events? >> Yeah, you know, the reruns only go so far, right? I'm a Texas Aggie, man. I could watch Johnny Football in his prime anytime. But I know what happened, and those games are just not as exciting as something that's a surprise. I'm actually curious about e-sports for the first time. What would it look like to watch a couple of kids who are really good at Madden Football on a Playstation go at it? What would other games that I've never seen look like? In our space, it's a lot more about, I think, podcasts and live content and staying connected and apprised of what's going on, making-- Oh, we locked up there for a second. It's, I think it's going to be really interesting. I'm still following you guys. I certainly see you active on social media. I'm sort of more addicted than ever to the live news, and in fact, I'm ready to start seeing some stuff that doesn't involve COVID-19, so from that perspective, man, keep churning out good content, and good content that's pertinent to the rest of our industry. >> That's great stuff. Well, Dustin, take a minute to explain what you're doing at Apex Clearing, your mission, and what are you guys excited about. >> Yeah, so Apex Clearing, we're a fintech. We're a very forward-focused, digitally-focused fintech. We are well positioned to continue servicing the needs of our clients in this environment. We went fully remote the first week of March, long before it was mandatory, and our business shifted pretty seamlessly. We worked through a couple of hiccups, provisioning extra VPN IP addresses, and upgrading a couple of service plans on some of the softwares, the service we buy, but besides that, our team has done just a marvelous job transitioning to remote. We are in the broker, dealer, and registered advisor space, so we provide the clearing services, which handles stock trades, equity trades, in the back end, and the custodial services. We actually hold, safeguard, the equities that our correspondents, we call our clients correspondents, their retail customers end up holding. So we've been around in our current form since about 2012. This was a retread of a previous company that was bought and retooled as Apex Clearing in 2012. Very shortly after that, we helped Robinhood, Wealthfront, Betterment, a whole bunch of really forward-looking companies reinvent what it meant to buy and sell and trade securities online, and to hold assets in a robo advisor like Betterment. Today, we are definitely well-known, well-respected for how quickly and seamlessly our APIs can be used by our correspondents in building really modern e-banking and e-brokerage experiences. >> So you guys-- >> So that went-- >> Are you guys like a DevOps platform-- >> We're more like software as a service for fintech and brokerage. So our products are largely APIs that our correspondents use their own credentials to interact with, and then using our APIs, they can open accounts, which means get an account number from the systems that allows them to then fund that account, connect via ACH and other bank connectivity platforms, transfer cash into those accounts, and then start conducting trades. Some of our correspondents have that down to a 60-second experience in a mobile app. From a mobile app, you can register for that account, if you need to, take a picture of an IED, have all of that imported, add your tax information, have that account number associated with your banking account, move a couple hundred dollars into that banking account, and then if the stock market's open, start buying and selling stock in that same window. >> Great, well, I wanted to talk about this, because to the earlier bigger picture, I think people are going to be applying DevOps principles, younger entrepreneurs, but also, reborn, if you will, professionals who are old school IT or whatever, moving faster. And you wrote a blog post I want to get your thoughts on. You wrote it on April second. How we've adapted Ubuntu's time-based release cycles to fintech and software as a service. What is that all about? What's the meaning behind this post? You guys are doing something new, unique, or-- >> To this industry and to many of the people around me, even our clients and customers around me, this is a whole new world. They've never seen anything like it. To those of us who have been around Linux, open source, certainly Ubuntu, Open Stack, Kubernetes, it's just standard operating procedures. There's nothing surprising about it, necessarily. But either it's some combination of the financial services world, just the nature of proprietary software, but also the concept of software as a service, SaaS, which is very different than Ubuntu or Kubernetes or Open Stack, which is released software, right. We ship software at the end of an Ubuntu cycle or a Kubernetes cycle. It's very different when you're a software as a service platform, and it's a matter of rolling out to production some changes, and those changes then going live. So, I wrote a post mainly to give some transparency, largely to our clients, our correspondents. We've got a couple hundred customers that use the Apex platform. I've met with many of them in a sort of one-on-many, one-to-one, one-on-many basis, where I'll show up and deliver the product road map, a couple of product managers will come and do a deep dive. Part of what we communicate to those customers is around, now, around our release cycles, and to many of them, it's a foreign concept that they've just never seen or heard before, and so I put together the blog post. We shared it internally, and educated the teams, and it was well-received. We shared it externally privately with a number of customers, and it was well-received, and a couple of them, actually a couple of the Silicon Valley based customers said, hey, why don't you just put this out there on Medium or on your blog or under an Apex banner, because this actually would be really well-received by others in the family, other partners in the family. So I'm happy to kind of dive into a couple of the key principles here, and we can sort of talk through it if you're interested, John. >> Well, I think the main point is you guys have a release cycle that is the speed of open source to SaaS, and fintech, which again, proprietary stuff is slower, monolithic. >> Yeah, the key principle is that we've taken this, and we've made it predictable and transparent, and we commit to these cycles. You know, most people maybe familiar with Ubuntu releasing twice a year, right, April and October, Ubuntu has released every April and October since 2004. I was involved with Ubuntu between 2008 and 2018 as an engineer, an engineering manager, and then a product manager, and eventually a VP of product at Canonical, and that was very much my life for 10 years, oriented around that. In that time, I spent a lot of time around Open Stack, which adopted a very similar model. Open Stack's released every six months, just after the Ubuntu release. A number of the members of the technical team and the committee that formed Open Stack came out of either Ubuntu or Canonical or both, and really helped influence that community. It's actually quite similar in Kubernetes, which developed independent, generally, of Ubuntu. Kubernetes releases on a quarterly basis, about every three months, and again, it's the sort of thing where it's just a cycle. It happens like clockwork every three months. So when I joined Apex and took a look at a number of the needs that we had, our correspondents had, our relationship managers, our sales team, the client-facing people in the organization, one of the biggest items that bubbled straight to the top is our customers wanted more transparency into our road maps, tighter commitments on when we're going to deliver things, and the ability to influence those. And you know what, that's not dissimilar from any product managers plight anywhere in the industry. But what I was able to do is take some of those principles that are common around Ubuntu and Kubernetes and Open Stack, which by the way, are quite familiar. We use a lot of Ubuntu and Kubernetes inside of Apex, and many of our correspondents are quite familiar with those cycles, but they'd never really seen or heard of a software as a service, a SaaS vendor, using something like that. So that's what's new. >> You've got some cycles going now. You've got schedules, so just looking here, just to get this out there, 'cause I think it's data. You did it last year in October, November, mid-cycle in January of this year. You've got a couple summits coming up? >> Yeah, that's right, we've broken it down into three cycles per year, three 16-week cycles per year. So it's a little bit more frequent than the twice a year Ubuntu, not quite as frenetic as the quarterly Kubernetes cycles. 16 weeks time three is 48. That leaves us four weeks of slack, really to handle Thanksgiving and Christmas and end of year holidays, Chinese New Year, whatever might come up. I'll tell you from experience, that's always been a struggle in the Ubuntu and Open Stack and Kubernetes world, it's hard to plan around those cycles, so what we've done here is we've actually just allocated four weeks of a slush fund to take care of that. We're at three 16-week cycles per year. We version them according to the year and then an iterator. So 20A, 20B, 20C are our three cycles in 2020, and we'll do 21A, B, and C next year. Each of those cycles has three summits. So to your point about we get together, back in the before everyone stopped traveling, we very much enjoyed twice a year getting together for CUBE con. We very much enjoyed the Open Stack summits and the various Ubuntu summits. Inside of a small company like ours, these were physical. We'd get together in Dallas or New York or Chicago or Portland, which is the four places we have offices. We were doing that basically every six weeks or so for one of these summits. Now they're all virtual. We handle them over Zoom. When they were physical, we'd do the summit in about three days of packed agendas, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Now that we've gone to virtual, we've actually spread it a little bit thinner across the week, and so we've done, we've poked some holes in the day, which has been an interesting learning experience, and I think we're all much happier with the most recent summit we did, spreading it over the course of the week, accounting for time zones, giving ourself, everyone, lunch breaks and stuff. >> Well, we'll have to keep checking in. I want to certainly collaborate with you on the virtual digital, check your progress. We're all learning, and iterating, if you will, on the value that you can do with these digital ones. Try to get that success with physical, not always easy. Appreciate, and you're looking good, looking good and safe. Stay safe, and great to check in with you, and congratulations on the new opportunity. >> Yeah, thanks, John. >> Appreciate it. Dustin Kirkland, chief product officer at Apex Clearing. I'm John Furrier with the CUBE, checking in with a remote interview during this time when we are getting all the information of best practices on how to deal with this new at-scale, the new shift that is digital, that is impacting, and opportunities are there, certainly a lot of challenges, and hopefully, the healthcare, the finance, and the business models of these companies can continue and get back to work soon. But certainly, the people are still sheltered in place, working hard, being creative, be the coverage here in the CUBE. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (bright electronic music)

>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida, It's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris. We're here at day one at VeeamON 2019. This is CUBE's 3rd year of doing VeeamON. We started in New Orleans, it was a great show. Last year was Chicago, and here, Miami at the Fontainbleau hotel. Marc Crespi is here, he's the vice president of sales engineering for the Americas at ExaGrid Systems Cube. Hello Marc, good to see you again. >> Good to see you. >> Thanks for coming on. So, give us the update. What's happening with ExaGrid? You guys got new headquarters in Marlborough. Marlborough's happening these days, right? We got the new shopping spa, and the mayor's going crazy, so give us the update on ExaGrid. >> Yes, so we just moved into a beautiful new headquarters in Marlborough and share it with some great other companies. The company continues to grow rapidly, double digit growth year over year, one of the few companies in this category that's growing that quickly. So everything's great. >> What's driving the growth? >> Well, customers are looking to fix the economics of backup. They've been spending too much money on it for a lot of years, so they look at products now, they want them to be simple, easy to use, and very cost-effective and we drive that trend very hard. >> Yeah I mean that doesn't really describe- what you just described, simple, easy to use, and cost-effective really doesn't describe backup for the past 20 years. So what are you doing specifically to make it simple, cost-effective, and easy to use? >> Well, first of all, by working with companies like Veeam. Veeam is a very easy-to-use product, it's very intuitive and then our product integrates very well with it so the products work together very well and makes just a very simple solution. >> What do you see as other big trends in backup? showed a slide today, 15 billion dollars. A big chunk of that, maybe close to half of it was backup and recovery, there's all kind of other stuff: data management, analytics, etc, etc, etc. What do you see, obviously cloud, you talked about the big superpowers, what are the big trends that are driving your business and more importantly, your customers transformation? >> Well, customers are looking to reduce the amount of data that they actually have to move. So, incremental technology's a really big- themes of pioneer in that, obviously doing incremental backups and that saves time and effort, saves space, along with data deduplication, it really makes for cost-effective storage solution. >> Talk a little bit more about why you're growing, how you sort of uniquely compete in the marketplace with some of the big whales. >> Sure, so our most unique feature is our architecture, and it has both technical aspects and economic aspects. Because we're a scale-out architecture, meaning that with every capacity increase of your data, we're not just adding storage, we're adding CompuPower network memory, etc. so that we keep the backup times very, very, very low. That also makes for a very cost-effective architecture because what we've done is you can scale out pretty much infinitely and we've also eliminated the concept of the end of a life of products. So we never force our customers into mandatory refreshes so their economics are very predictable over a long period of time. >> What do you see as the biggest use cases today that are driving your business? I mean, obviously, backup and recovery, I talked earlier about some of these emerging data management, cloud obviously, is this big, Edge, you seeing much going on there. What are some of those workloads and use cases that you see? >> I think probably one of the biggest use cases these days is what I would call instant recoveries, meaning that rather than doing a traditional restore, which could take a long number of minutes to hours. Customers will actually run production workloads off of the backup target as a way to get users back productive more quickly than would've been done in the past. >> Yeah, and that's key because you see in RPO and RTO's sort of companies putting more and more pressure on the IT groups to shrink those times, presuming you're seeing that in conjunction with digital, digital business, digital transformation. You talked about architecture before. What about your architecture and maybe with your partnership with Veeam allows customers to shrink those RPO and RTO times? >> I think the other aspect of our architecture that's very unique is what we called adaptive deduplication. One of the things we looked at when we architected the product was deduplication is obviously a very effective technology, but what are potential cons. Things that would make it less effective in backup. And one of the things we realized was if you put deduplication in the middle of the backup window and due to deduplication while the backups are running, then you could interfere with the speed of disk. So we do something called adaptive deduplication which means that we allow the object from the backup software to land and then we deduplicate and replicate them in parallel, but we make sure that we're not throttling the backups. So, we provide disk speeds even though we use deduplication. >> Okay. So, that's an example of one of the things you're doing to sort of improve it. How about Veeam integration? Is there anything specific there that you're doing that we should know about? >> Well, part of it is because of adaptive deduplication and because we maintain complete copies of backups. We uniquely support instant Veeam recovery like no other vendor can. Furthermore, we run what's called the Veeam data remover which is actually Veeam technology runs inside of our appliance and sets up a optimized communication protocol with the Veeam software that allows us to do a number of great things. >> Wait, double click on on that. So, is it an efficient protocol or is there other sort of accelerators that you've got in there? >> The protocol is optimized, and then we do some other acceleration around how you do synthetic folds and things of that sort that are unique to the data mover. >> And you have news with Veeam this week, do you not? >> Yes, we do. We're announcing something called ExaGrid backup with Veemam and what it is in a nutshell is the ability for a customer to purchase both technologies from their preferred reseller by just ordering one part number. So it dramatically simplifies the acquisition of the two technologies and allows customers to simplify the buying process. >> So Veeam, I know, is all channel sales. How about you guys? How do you go to market? >> We also are, yes. >> So, talk more about your go-to market. What do you have? Like, an overlay sales force that it helps facilitate? You got partners? Maybe you can talk more about your ecosystem. >> Well, we have a worldwide sales force and our sales people, the people that do the selling, work directly with our partners, so we don't have a specialized channel workforce, but we have a specialized channel strategy, and our entire sales team is very well trained on the channel, how to work with the channel, and make them happy and successful. >> So, backup for a long time time was kind of an afterthought. It was non-differentiated. You just did what you needed to make sure the devices could be recovered. >> Yeah, you bolted it on. >> You bolted it on. >> Right. >> Increasingly, it's becoming recognized as a central capability to any digital business, because if your data goes away or your data's no longer available, your digital business is gone. >> Right. >> That suggests we're going to get a greater degree of differentiation in the types of devices, in the types of systems, etc, that are going to become part of a backup solution. First of all, do you agree with that? And then secondly, go back to the use cases, where do you guys see yourselves fitting into that increasingly federated backup capability? >> Well, I certainly do agree with it. I mean, it's always been a necessity, but now even with things like Ransomware and the cryptoviruses, and things of that sort, it's even more important than it's ever been. It's no longer just data loss, etc. So, we fit into that trend and we'll continue to fit into that trend by continuing to drive the economics through the floor. Customers want that level of protection, it's a little bit like insurance. You need the protection, but you don't want to pay a dollar more than you have to, right? So you want to put it on an economic diet, and the way our technology evolves, we come out with denser, faster systems at a lower cost per terabyte just about every year. And we'll continue to do that. >> So do you anticipate then that there's going to be specialized use cases or are you just going after taking costs out of the equation? >> It's not so specialized because it's very horizontal. Everybody does it and everybody backs up all their data. So, we don't specialize in any one area of the data center like database or anything of that sort. We go wherever the customer needs us to go inside their data center. >> It's in the data center, sorry David, it's in the data center. >> In the data center, we also have a cloud offering, we have partners that will offer disaster recovery as a service, so they'll have data centers that manage on behalf of the customers, and we also have an offering that goes into Amazon web services. And, shortly, we'll be coming out with one for Azure. >> And that is what? A software based offering that uses the cloud as a target? >> Correct, it's a virtual appliance that you can replicate into the cloud. >> All right. We don't have much time left tonight, we have a really important topic to cover, which is, we talked about last year, but I want to bring it up again, which is sports. >> Yup. Why don't we talk Boston sports, we could talk about Warriors. I got a question for you, but- >> I'll watch >> I asked you last year, and I think it was May, we were in Chicago, I said "Would you have traded Tom Brady?" At a time when the sentiment was, he was done. And you said "No way, absolutely not." You, Peter McKay, and Patrick Osmond all said emphatically no, you made the right call. So good job. >> Thank you. >> Your thoughts? >> Would never trade him. He can play until he's 100 for all I care. As long as he keeps performing at such a high level, why would you lose him? >> And then, of course, the Red Sox, 108 wins, that was an amazing gift that they gave us. So, I don't know if you're a baseball fan. >> I am. >> All right, I got to ask you, Peter. Are the Warriors the greatest basketball team in the history of basketball? >> Well, let's see... >> Brendan says yes. >> They are the best basketball team at a time of the most competitive NBA. Some of the rules have changed, but the athletes are better, they're more conditioned, they are more knowledgeable by how to play this game, and they are the best team in basketball without Kevin Durant and without Boogie Cousins. >> Yeah. >> So ... hard to argue. >> They're sweeping Portland without Durant which is pretty amazing. So Brendan, for years, has been trying to tell me that. You know, Brendan is our local basketball genius so, I don't know. >> Now, would the Warriors have beaten say a Bill Russell Celtics team with the Celtics- Bill Russell Celtics team rules? Maybe not. >> Yeah, I don't know. I would say I'm starting to come around to Brendan's way of thinking. But, Marc, we'll give you the last word here. VeeamON 2019, great venue here in Miami, very hip, hip company, hip venue, ExaGrid growing, double digit growth rate, so congratulations on that. Your final thoughts? >> Just great to be here, I always like coming to Veeam events, they're always very well attended, I get to meet a lot of customers and really enjoy it. >> Marc Crespi, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It's great to see you again. >> Thank you. >> All right, keep it right there everybody. Peter and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break. This is VeeamON 2019 and you're watching theCUBE.

>> Live from Barcelona Spain it's theCUBE covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Live from Barcelona Spain it's theCUBE covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon Europe 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hola Barcelona I'm Stu Miniman and my guest host for this week is the one and only Corey Quinn, and you're watching theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage, actually the fourth year we've been doing the KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. This is KubeCon CloudNativeCon Barcelona 2019. We've got two days of wall to wall live coverage. Last year we were in Copenhagen it was outside a little bit windy and we had this lovely silk above us. This time we are inside at the Fira. We've got some lovely Cube branding. The store with all the t-shirts and the little plushies of Fippy and all the animals are right down the row for us, and there is 7,700 people here. So I have been, I did the Austin show in 2017 did the Seattle show last year 2018. We had done the Portland show in 2016, so it's my third time doing one of these, but Corey it is your first time at one of these shows. Wait this isn't an AWF show, so what are you doing here? >> I'm still trying to figure that out myself when people invite me to go somewhere "Do you know anything about insert topic here?" absolutely, smile and bluff your way through. Eventually someone might call you on it, but that's tomorrow's problem not quite today's. >> Yeah I have this general rule of thumb the less I know about something the more I overdress to overcompensate it. Oh so here's the guy in the three piece suit. >> My primary skill is wearing a suit everything else is just edging details. >> Alright, so let's set the stage for our audience here Corey. As I've said we've got the Foundation, we've got a lot of the big members, we've got some of the project people, but I'm really excited we actually have some excellent users here, because it is five years now since Kubernetes came onto the scene of course built off of Borg from Google, and as Dan Conn said in the opening key note, he actually gave a nice historical lesson. The term he used is simultaneous invention and basically those things that, you know, there are times where we argue, who created the light bulb first, or who did this and this? Because there were multiple times out there and he said look there were more than a dozen projects out there. >> Many of them open source or a little bit open as to these things like container orchestration, but it is Kubernetes that is the defacto standard today, and it's why so many people show up for this show, >> and there's such a large ecosystem around it. So you live in the Cloud world you know what's your general view on CloudNative and Kubernetes and this whole kind of space? >> Well going back to something you said a minute or two ago. I think there's something very strong to be said about this being defined by it's users. I've never yet seen a successful paradigm takeoff in the world of technology that was vendor defined. It's at some point you wind up with these companies doing the digital equivalent of here we've crafted you this amazingly precise wrench, and you hand it to a user and the first thing they say is wow it's kind of a crappy hammer, but it's at least good for a first attempt. Tools are going to be used as users want to use them and they define what the patterns look like. >> Yeah so I'll give you the counter point there because we understand if we ask users what they wanted they wanted better buggy whips so we can go faster. To compare and contrast we had done a few years ago was this openstack was user driven and it came out of NASA, and if it was good enough for the rocket scientist, it should be something we that can learn on, and Rackspace had done good and gave it to the open source community, and stepped back and let people use it. First of all openstack it's not dead it's being used in the Telco world it's being used outside of North America quite a bit, but we saw the kind of boom and bust of that. >> We are a long way passed the heyday. >> The vendor ecosystem of openstack was oh it's an alternative to AWS, and maybe some way to get off the VMY licensing, and I've actually said it's funny if you listen to what happens in this ecosystem. Well, giving people the flexibility not to be totally locked in to AWS, and oh it's built on Linux and therefore I might not want to have licensing from certain vendors. Still echos from previously but it is very different. >> Very much so, and I will say the world has changed. >> I was very involved in Eucalyptus which was a bit of a different take on the idea, or the promise of what openstack was going to be What if you had Cloud API's in your own data center in 2012 that seemed like a viable concern. The world we live in today of public cloud first for a lot of shops was by no means assured. >> Yeah, Martin Meikos, Cube alum by the way, fantastic leader still heavily involved in open source. >> Very much so >> One of those things I think he was a little bit ahead of his time on these. So Corey, one of the reasons, why are you here? You are here because I pulled you here, and we do pay you to be here as a host. You're not here for goodwill and that. Your customers are all users and tend to be decent sized users and they say Corey helps people with their Amazon bills no that's the AWS bills not the I have a pile of boxes of smiley faces on there, oh my God what did I do around Christmas time. >> Exactly >> So the discussion at the show is this whole hybrid and multi cloud world when I talk to users they don't use those words. Cloud strategy, sure, my pile of applications, and how I'm updating some of them, and keeping some of them running, and working with that application portfolio and my data. All hugely important but what do you hear from users, and where does the things like cloud and multi cloud fit into their world? >> There are two basic archetypes of user that I tend to deal with. Because I deal with, as you mentioned, with predominately large customers >> you have the born in the cloud types who have more or less a single application. Picture a startup that hits meteoric growth and now is approaching or is in the IPO stage. They have a single application. They're generally all in on one provider, and the idea of going multi cloud is for auxiliary things. If we take a step back, for example, they're saying things like oh PagerDuty is a service that's not run by one of our major public cloud providers. There are a bunch of SaaS applications like that that factor in, but their infrastructure is >> predominately going to be based in one environment. The other large type of customer you'll tend to see is one of those multinational very divisional organizations where they have a long legacy of being very data center first because historically that was kind of the only option. And you'll start to see a bunch of different popup cloud providers inside those environments, but usually they stop at the line of business boundary or very occasionally on a per workload basis. I'm not seeing people say, >> well we're going to build this one application workload, and we want to be able to put that on Oracle cloud, and Azure and GCP and AWS, and this thing that my cousin runs out of the Ozarks. No one wants to do that in the traditional sense because as soon as you go down that path you are constrained to whatever the lowest common denominator across all those things are, and my cousins data center in the Ozarks doesn't have a lot of frills. So you wind up trying to be able to deploy anywhere, but by doing that you are giving up any higher level offering. You are slowing yourself down. >> Yeah, the thing we've always been worried about is back in the day when you talk about multi vendor do we go by the standard, and then go to least common denominator and what has worked it's way through the environment? That's what the customers want. I want today if I'm the user, agility is really one of the things that seem to be top of mind. What IT needs to do is respond to the speed of what the business needs and a CloudNative environment that I look at is it has to be that lever to be able to help me deliver on the next thing, or change the thing, or update my thing to get that working. It was, so disclaimer Red Hat is our headline sponsor here we thank them for our presence, but actually it's a great conversation with open shift customers, and they didn't talk about open shift to open shift to open shift. They talk about their digital transformation. They talk about their data. They talk about the cool new things that they are able to do, and it was that platform happened to be built on Kubernetes. That was the lever to help them do this at the Google show where you were at. That was the same conversation we had whether it is in GCP or whether it was in my own data center. >> You know yes we can do it with containers and everything like that. It was that lever to be able to help me modernize and run new apps and do it faster than I would've done it in the past. So it's that kind of progression that is interesting for me to hear, and just there is not, there is this tendency now to be like oh look everybody is working together and it's wonderful open source ecosystem. It's like well look the world today is definitely coopetition. Yes you need to be up on stage and if a customer says, I need to work with vendors A, B, C, and D. A, B, C, and D, you better work with that or they will go and find an alternative, because there are alternatives out there. >> (Corey) Absolutely, and when a company embarks on a digital transformation and starts moving into public cloud, there are two reasons they are doing that. The first is for cost savings in which case (laughs), let's talk, and the other is for capability storing, and you're not going to realize cost savings for a lot longer than you think you will. In any case you are not going realize capability story if all you view public cloud is being, is another place to run your VAMS or now your containers. >> Yeah, so thank you, Corey your title in your day job You're a Cloud economist. >> I am, two words that no one can define. So no one calls me on it. >> Kubernetes it's magical and free right >> That's what everyone tells me. It feels like right now we are sort of peak heighth as far as Kubernetes goes, and increasingly, whenever you see a technology that has gotten this level of adoption. We saw it with openstack, we've seen it with cloud, we've seen it with a bunch of things. We are starting to see it with Serverless as well. Where, what problem are you trying to solve? I'm not going to listen to the answer, today that answer is Kubernetes, and it seems like everyone's first project is their own resume. Great, there has to be a value proposition, there has to be a story for it, >> and I'm not suggesting that there isn't, but I think that it is being used as sort of an upscale snake oil in some cases or serpen grease as we like to call it in some context. >> Yeah, and that's one of our jobs here is to help extract the sigma from the noise. We've got some good customers. We're going into the environment. One of the things I try to do in the open keynote is find that theme. Couple of years, for a couple of shows >> it's been service mesh is the new hotness. We're talking about Istio, we're talking about Helm, We're talking about all these all these environments that say okay how do I pull together all the pieces of the application, >> and manage that together? Because there's just, you know, moving up the stack, and getting closer to that application. We'll talk about Serverless in one of the other segments later this week I'm sure because you know there's the, okay here Knative can help bridge that gap, but is that what I need? We talk a lot about Kubernetes is how much does the public cloud versus in my data center, and some of the guys they talk to, Serverless is in the public cloud. We'll call it functions of the service if you put it in your own data center, because while yes there are servers everywhere. If you actually manage those racks and everything like that it probably doesn't make sense to call it Serverless. We try not to get into too many semantics arguments here on theCUBE. >> You can generally tend to run arbitrary code anywhere the premise of Serverless to my mind. >> Is more about the event model, and you don't get that on VRAM in the same way that you do in a large public cloud provider, and whether that is the right thing or not, I'm not prepared to say, but it's important for that to be understood as you are going down that path. >> So Corey, any themes that jumped out for you, or things that you want to poke at, at the show, for me, Kubernetes has really kind of crossed that Chasm, and we do have large crowds. You can see the throngs of people behind us, and users that have great stories to tell, and CNCF itself, you know has a lot of projects out there, we're trying to make some sense of all those pieces. There's six now that have graduated, and FluentD is the most recent, but a lot of interesting things from the sandbox, through that kind of incubating phase there, and we're going to dig into some of the pieces there. Some of them build on top of Kubernetes, some of them are just part of this whole Cloud Native Ecosystem, and therefore related but don't necessarily need it, and can play in all these various worlds. >> What about you? >> For me I want to dig a little bit more into the idea of multi cloud. I have been making a bit of a stink for the past year. With the talk called the myth of multi cloud. Where it's not something I generally advise as a best practice, and I'm holding that fairly well, but what I want to do is I want to have conversations with people who are pursuing multi cloud strategies and figure out first, are they in fact pursuing the same thing, so we're defining out terms and talking on the same page, and secondly I want to get a little more context, and insight into why they are doing that, and what that looks like for them. Is it they want to be able to run different workloads in different places? Great that's fair, the same workload run everywhere, on the lowest common denominator. Well lets scratch below the surface a bit, and find out why that is. >> Yeah, and Corey you're spot on, and no surprise because you talk to users on this. From our research side on our team, we really say multi cloud or hybrid cloud. Hybrid cloud means you've got your own data centers, as opposed to multi cloud could be any of them. There's a little bit of a Venn Diagram you could do between that. >> But I am prepared to be wrong as well. I'm a company of two people. I don't have a research department, that's called the spare time I get >> when I can't sleep at night. So I don't have data, I have anecadata. I can talk about individual use cases, but then I'm telling individual company stories that I'm generally not authorized to tell. So it's more a question now of starting to speak to a broader base. >> So just to finish on the thought from out team is everything from I have all of these pieces, and they're really not connected, and I'm just trying to get my arms around through some of the solutions. Like in the AWS world we're looking at the VMware on AWS, and the outpost type of solution. That pullout or what Azure does with Azure stack, and the like, or even company like IBM and Oracle, where they have a stack that can be both >> in the public cloud and the private cloud. Those kind of fully integrated pieces versus the right now I'm just putting applications in certain areas, and then how do I manage data protection, how do I manage security across all these environments. It is a heterogeneous mess that we had, and I spent a lot of my career trying to help us break down those silos, get away from the cylinders of excellence as we called them, and we worked more traditionalist. So how much are we fighting that? I will just tell you that most of the people we're going to have on theCUBE, probably aren't going to want to get into that. They'll be happy to talk about their piece, and how they work with this broad wonderful ecosystem, but we can drill into where Kubernetes fits. We've got the five year anniversary of Kubernetes. We'll be talking to some of the people that helped create this technology, and lots of the various pieces. So with that, Corey, want to give you the final take here, before we talk about the stickers, and some of the rest. >> Oh absolutely, I think it's a fascinating show. I think that they're the right people who are attending. To give valuable perspective that, quite frankly, you're not going to get almost anywhere else. It's just a fascinating blend of people from large companies, small companies, giant vendors, and of course the middleware types, who are trying to effectively stand between in many cases, customers and the raw vendors, for a variety of very good reasons. Partner strategies are important. I'm very curious to see what that becomes, and how that tends to unfold in the next two days. >> Okay, so theCUBE by the way, we're not only a broadcast, but we are part of the community. We understand this network, and that is why Corey and I, you know, we come with stickers. So we've got these lovely sticker and partnership with Women Who Go, that made this logo for us for the Seattle show, and I have a few left, so if you come on by. Corey has his platypus, last week in AWS. So come on by where we are, you get some stickers, and of course, hit us up on Twitter if you have any questions. We're always looking for the community, and the network to help us with the data, and help us pull everything apart. So for Corey Quinn, I'm Stu Miniman, two days of live wall to wall coverage >> will continue very soon, and thank you as always for watching theCUBE. (Fading Electronic Music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at San Francisco International at Gate 54B if you want to stop by and say hello. We're here for Alaska's Elevated Flying Experience launch. It's really an interesting opportunity. Alaska took advantage of the purchase of Virgin to kind of rethink the brand, rethink the branding of the planes, and add a bunch of new amenities. This is the one that you're going to care about more than any of the others, and we're really excited to have the founder and CEO of Salt & Straw the ice cream, Kim Malek. >> Hi! >> Great to meet you! >> Thank you! >> I am a huge fan! >> Aw! I appreciate that. >> I don't know how many hours I've stood in line and burned, waiting to get into your restaurant in Portland. >> Aw, thank you so much! >> So for folks that haven't stood in line for their Salt & Straw, give us a quick update on Salt & Straw, who you guys are, what you're all about. >> Yeah, so we started actually in 2011 as a little push cart which is a big deal in Portland, and we've grown now to 19 shops up and down the West Coast. We make all of our ice cream in 5 gallon batches, so we savor the smallest and we're the largest small batch ice cream company in the world and we're excited to have this new partnership with Alaska. >> Right, so I don't know kind of what the official industry categories are, but you would certainly be like in the super rich premium category. (laughter) Right. Really, really rich ingredients, fresh ingredients >> Yeah >> crazy flavors. >> So, each city that we operate in we make a different menu, so it reflects that city's local flavors, what's going on with the food scene and we make everything in house, so whether it's a brownie or rendering bone marrow, or making gummy bears ourselves, it's all made in house with great great care and love. >> I'm just curious if you have a feel for, you know, what is the formula for your success? Right, it's ice cream. There's a lot of ice cream choices, of course Farrell's was one of my favorite back at Portland >> Aw, I love Farrell's. Yeah. >> and they don't have that anymore at the zoo. But, what are some of the secrets to have, you know, "a commodity product" if you will, it's ice cream, but to build such a passionate following and really have people that are so connected to the product and the brand? >> Yeah, well we feel so fortunate to have this loyal following and I think it's really, you know we invest a lot in earning people's business and earning that attention, and so like I said, we have a different menu in every city that we operate in, we change our menu every 4 weeks, so it's reflective of what's happening locally and seasonally, and then when you come into our store, we try to offer a pretty special experience, so from the store design to the way we take care of people, they can sample through the whole menu. I was just at one of our stores and a customer said this is like a wine tasting, I mean I'm tasting all of these flavors, hearing the stories behind how they were made, and the collaborations that went into it, so we pack a lot into the experience. >> Right and so it's interesting that we are here at Alaska because Ben and the opening talked about really the culture and about people because the seat, it's kind of the same thing, a seat mile is a seat mile, so how do you differentiate your product and your offering, and he talked about values and wanting to work with companies that reflect the similar values. You're here, so tell the people why are you here at the Alaska event? >> I love that he talked about values. I noticed that as well and you know I think that's definitely one thing that we share, is a care for the people first and foremost. I mean, we scoop ice cream, but you know we offer people I think four days of training before they show up to actually start scooping ice cream, and that's all about you know, how to create connections with people, how to have a really special experience when someone is standing in front of you and how to connect. So, you know, we invest a lot in our team and I think that really shines through in the way that they take care of customers and I definitely see that when I fly with Alaska Airlines and it was one of the reasons I was so excited to be able to partner with them. >> Right, so we got to tell the people, so you can now get Salt & Straw on Alaska Airlines. >> Yeah, that's right, so just for a couple of months now we've been offering a little single serve container that we actually developed in conjunction with Alaska Airlines, so they helped us design the packaging, so that it would really fit with the experience that they were offering and then we launched it in the air and we don't really sell ice cream outside of our stores very much, so it was really a big deal to work with them on this project. >> Yeah and I would imagine in terms of the packaging and the experience, you're so dialed into that, that is such a part of your brand that you probably have a lot of, I would imagine initial concerns about making sure that was consistent with the brand that you guys represent. >> Yeah, definitely, I mean we had a lot of conversations about how they were going to handle the product, how they were going to educate their team about the ice cream so they can be communicating it with the people who were flying and they were of course there in spades and it was a really easy conversation to have. >> Alright, well Kim, thanks for, thanks for the ice cream earlier. >> Aw, thank you. >> And thanks for taking a few minutes. Congratulations and safe flying back to Portland. >> Awesome! I appreciate being here. Thank you! >> You're welcome! She's Kim, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at San Francisco Gate 54B at the Alaska Airlines Better Experience. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Woman: From the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE; covering CloudNOW's Seventh Annual Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. (dramatic music) >> Hi, Lisa Martin with theCUBE on the ground at Facebook Headquarters. We're here for the Seventh Annual CloudNOW Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation event. Welcoming, one of the award-winners tonight, to the program, we've got Sce Pike, the founder and CEO of IOTAS. Sce, it's so great to have you here, and congratulations on your award. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. >> So IOTAS's cool software. >> Mm hmm. >> Tell us about that. This is for the Smart Apartments. These days we're so used to being able to talk to any device and have it control things. Smart cities are our big thing, smart everything. Tell us about IOTAS. What do you guys do when the impetus for the technology. >> Sure, I really believe that the future of smart home is actually something that is not just four walls and a roof, but actually something that is aware of you. So, aware of you and knows your preferences and settings, and actually knows everything about you and wants to actually be an ally to you, and actually can differentiate between you, and your family and friends, and potentially an intruder. And so, the only way you're going to get there is to actually work with early adopters of technology. This is when we start identifying the real estate industry with multi-family where all the early adopters were living, right, because only 30 percent of Millennials own homes. And so, we thought about this and said, "Okay, well, how are we going to actually get to those millennials?" And then a real estate developer actually approached us, saying, "Hey, I want technology differentiation for my building that I'm creating, 200 units in Portland Oregon," which is where I'm from, and said, "I want to have something different." And that's when I was like, "Oh, this is the opportunity to actually work with the real estate industry to put it into the fabric of the buildings." And that's when I got really excited when we can actually make a true smart home that has all the lights, all the outlets, all the locks, voice as you mentioned, and everything that is an experience versus just on, off. >> That's so interesting. I looked at your Web site and saw the journal and how it's talking about something that you mentioned, this awareness and learning the individuals and being able to have the intelligence to distinguish. >> Is it called stories on the website? >> Those are stories, those are the automations, so that you can have a good night story, good morning, welcome home; so everything just works for people who are moving into our apartments. They download the app within 30 seconds. They can see everything that they can control, but they can see also, all the pre-programmed automation as well. But the other notion of what we are creating is something called a living profile. And this is really relevant from a CloudNOW perspective, is that the living profile travels with you from place to place to place. So we are not only doing smart apartments but we're also working in student housing, military housing, senior living, and starting to go into single family home as well. So for us, the notion is that these smart homes, all your settings preferences, your routines, your habits, travel with you from place to place to place, eventually to hotels, to cars, working spaces, hotels, short term vacation rentals and such. >> Wow! That's phenomenal. So this is an interesting kind of collaboration between the real estate industry and some technologists. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> I love that you were approached by a real estate developer who said, "I want to have a differentiation for my business." >> Exactly. Was that sort of a surprise to you thinking, you understand tech, you have a really cool background in anthropology as well as electronic arts, but there must have been sort of an interesting opportunity going, "Well, there's a huge opportunity in the market here >> Yeah. >> that we can help tech really kick the doors wide open on real estate. >> Yes. Exactly. My previous company, Citizen, which I sold to Ernst and Young, is known for connected technology. So we were developing connected technologies in cars, in healthcare and fintech, and we were looking at smart homes for single family home. And so, for us, when that real estate developer approached us, looked at the market, saw that the market is huge. It's $500 billion to a trillion dollars, just for multi-family home alone, it's an absolutely a large market, and then realized that this was truly an opportunity to scale smart home and IoT devices in a meaningful way because you're not just selling one device, one home, not even one building, but you're selling entire portfolios of companies like Prudential or JP Morgan. All the funds that you hear about, they're all real estate funds, right? And they're changing hands 40% of the ... A 40% of the fund is changing hands every year. That means they are buying and selling, and as they're buying and selling, they're adding technology into these buildings. >> Wow! That's so interesting. So, I want to kind of pivot a little bit into your background. I mentioned anthropology degree and electronic arts. And you have, I was asking you before we went live, I love stories like that where there's a ... I hear it wasn't a STEM kit, but you have some really cool influences that your anthropology background has delivered to, not just your career but also the technology that you guys are delivering. Tell us a little bit about that. Sure. So, anthropology is a study in human behavior, right? There's physical anthropology and cultural anthropology. Physical anthropology is now considered almost like evolutionary psychology. And so that actually allowed me because I've always been curious about human; human nature, why people do things, and that actually led my career into this interesting path of user experience design. And electronic arts actually taught me how to code as well as design on the computer. And when I graduated from college in the late '90s and moved to Silicon Valley, everybody's like, "I need somebody who could code and design all these Internet sites." So I ended up actually designing the first GM e-commerce site, the first HP's e-commerce sites, and that actually was not a direct path. I never thought I'd be making websites or working in an Internet, but it was an interesting path to get there. So you're right, it doesn't have to be this straight and like you got to be in computer science. There's so many different avenues to think about how technology needs a different point of view, right, from an art background or an anthropology background, and I think that's where there's an opportunity to bring in women or girls in a different way that still goes into STEM. So steam is a huge portion of what I support. >> Yes. And you talked about, it's just different points of view, it's thought diversity, even. >> Yes. >> Tell us a little bit about the culture that you're building at IOTAS and where, maybe even some of the softer skills >> Sure. >> are key to enabling you guys to do market expansion and accomplish some pretty big goals? >> Yeah. I mean, culturally, I love my team. I think one of the things that we always strive for, though, is the ability to always give back to the community as well. So we have like, events, as well as like, once a month, everyone has like, a give-back Wednesday, right? So they can go and volunteer and do other things that is outside of just their work life, right? And so that's just one of the things that we do and that allows them to just step away from their daily activity of being driven by just the startup mentality or the startup life and just go build something, and we do this a lot, Habitats for Humanities, right? We go build homes, real homes, and we always think we should offer these homes as smart home technology. But those are the things that I think really impact who we are. The other thought I had was I travel a lot. And I had this moment where I was getting on a plane. I was looking at the pilot, I was going, "Oh gosh! So much of my life is dependent on white men, and, unfortunately, like, my investors, my board members, all my executive staff, my husband, and I was thinking, "I need to change something. I'll keep the husband." (Lisa laughs) But we (chuckles) recently added a female board member who has a cybersecurity background. I'm recruiting for a female CFO and COO as well, and I'm trying to change up my executive staff, change up my investors, change up my board 'cause this is not something that you think about, coming from my generation which is a little bit older. You just need to do what you need to do to get it done, you don't think about yourself as a female entrepreneur. I thought of myself as an entrepreneur. I think of myself as a CEO. I don't have this like, "I'm a female entrepreneur." And so you sometimes forget to support other diversity in this environment, and that's kind of this moment of realization as I was getting on the plane, "I got to change something." Right? And so, our staff is more than 40% female. I'm trying to change that a little bit more. That's one of the key things that I think is a strength of having just representation. >> And maybe one of these days, you said your point: It won't matter, you will just be able to be a CEO, an entrepreneur. >> exactly. >> One more thing, since you're recruiting, where can people to go to find out more information about the opportunities? >> Sure, they can come to our site, reach out or contact at iotashome.com. That would be the best way to reach us. >> Excellent. Well, Sce, congratulations on the award. >> Thank you. >> And for what you're doing to help revolutionize the real estate tech industry. It's such interesting technology to make it aware and personal. Thanks for your time. >> Cool. >> Thank you so much, Lisa. We want to thank you for watching theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin, at Facebook Headquarters. Thanks for watching. (dramatic music)

>> From Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Covering VTUG Winter Warmer 2019. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage of the VTUG Winter Warmer 2019. Just had Rob Ninkovich from the New England Patriots on the program. And, happy to bring on the program, one of the co-leaders of this VTUG event, Chris Williams. Whose day job is as a cloud architect with GreenPages, but is co-leader here at VTUG, does some user groups, and many other things, and actually a CUBE alum, even. Back four years ago, the first year-- >> That's right. >> -that we did this, we had you on the program, but a few things have changed, you know... You have a little less hair. >> This got a little longer. A little less here. >> More gray hair. Things like that. We were talking, >> Funny how that works out. you know, Rob was, you know, talking about how he's 35, and we were, like, yeah, yeah, 35, I remember 35. >> A child. (laughing) >> Things like that. Just wait til you hit your 40's and stuff starts breaking. >> Oh, so much to look forward to. >> So, Chris, first of all, thank you. We love coming to an event like this. I got to talk to a few users on-air, and I talked to, you know, get a, just, great pulse of what's going on in the industry. Virtualization, cloud computing, and beyond. So, you know, we know these, you know, local events are done, you know, a lot of it is the passion of the people that do it, and therefore we know a lot goes into it. >> I appreciate it, thanks for having me on. >> Alright, so bring people up to speed. What's your life like today? What do you do for work? What do you do for, you know, the passion projects? >> Ah, so the passion projects recently have been a lot of, we're doing a Python for DevOp series on vBrownBag. For the AWS Portsmouth User Group, we're also doing a machine learning and robotics autonomous car driving project, using Python as well. And for VTUG, we're looking at a couple of different tracks, also with the autonomous driving, and some more of the traditional, like, VMware to CAS Cloud Hybrid training kind of things. >> Excellent, so in the near future, the robots will be replacing the users here, and we'll have those running around. >> I have my Skynet t-shirt on underneath here. >> Ah, yes, Skynet. (laughing) You know if you Tweet that out, anything about Skynet, there's bots that respond to you with, like, things from The Terminator movies. >> I built one of them. >> Did you? (laughter) Well, thank you. They always make me laugh, and if there's not a place for snark on Twitter, then, you know, all we have left is kind of horrible politics, so. >> That's true, that's true. >> Great, so, yeah, I mean, Cloud AI, robotics, you know, what's the pulse? When you talk to users here, you know, they started out, you know, virtualization. There's lots of people that are, "I'm rolling out my virtualization, "I'm expanding what use-cases I can use it on, "I might be thinking about how cloud fits into that, "I'm looking at, you know, VmMare and Amazon especially, "or Microsoft, how all those fit together." You know, what are you hearing, what drives some of those passion projects other than, you know, you're interested in 'em? >> So, a lot of what my passion projects are driven, it's kind of a confluence of a couple of different events. I'm passionate about the things that I work on, and when I get into a room with customers, or whatever like that, or with the end users, getting together and talking about, you know, what's the next step? So, we as users, as a user group and as a community, we're here to learn about not just what today is... what's happening today, but, what's going to keep us relevant in the future, what are the new things coming down the pipe. And, a lot of that is bending towards the things that I'm interested in, fortuitously. Learning how to take my infrastructure knowledge and parlay that into a DevOps framework. Learning how to take Python and some of the stuff that I'm learning from the devs on the AWS side, and teaching them the infrastructure stuff. So, it's a bi-directional learning thing, where we all come together to that magical DevOps unicorn in the middle, that doesn't really exist, but... >> Yeah, I tell you, we've had this conversation a few times here, and many times over the last few years especially, is that, there's lots of opportunities to learn. And, you know, >> Too many. >> is your job threatened? And, the only reason your job should be threatened, is if you think you can keep doing, year after year, what you were doing before, because chances are either you will be disrupted in the job, or if not, the people you're working for might be disrupted, because if they're not pushing you along those tracks, and the tools and the communities to be able to learn stuff is, I can learn stuff at a fraction of the cost in faster times. >> Yep. >> Might not learn as much, but I'm saying I can pick up new skills, I can start getting into cloud. You know, it's not $1000 and six months to get the first piece of it. >> Exactly. >> It might be 40 to 60 hours online. >> Yep. >> And, you know, cost you 30 to 100 bucks, so, it's... >> Yeah, the lift in training, is a lot easier because, you're basically swiping your credit card, and with AWS, you have a free tier for 12 months, that you can play with and just, you know, doodle around, and then... And figure things out. You don't have to buy a home lab, you don't have to buy NFR license, or get NFR licenses from Vmware. But, the catch to that is, you do have to do it. There's a... remember Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? >> Of course. >> Remember the dad was doing the toothpaste tubes, he was the guys screwing the toothpaste tubes onto the machines. At the end of the story, he got, you know, automated out of a job, because they had a machine screwing the toothpaste tubes on. And then, at the end, he was the guy fixing the machine that was screwing the toothpaste tubes on. >> Right. >> So, in our world, that infrastructure guy, who's been deploying manually virtual machines, there's a piece of code, there's an infrastructure code, that will do that for them now. They've got to know how to modify and refactor that piece of code, and get good. And, get good at that. >> Yeah, you know, I've talked to a couple of people, we talk about, you know, there's big, you know, vendor shows, and then there's, you know, regional user groups and meet-up's, and the like. Give us a little insight into, you know, let's start with VTUG specifically, and, you know, what you're doin' up in the Portland area. Would love to hear some of the dynamics now, you know, it feels like there's just been a ground swell for many years now, to drive those, you know, local, and many times, more specialized events, as opposed to bigger, broader events. >> Yeah, it's interesting, because we like the bigger, broader events, because it gets everybody together to talk about, things across a broad spectrum. So, here we have the infrastructure guys, and we have the DevOps guys, and we have a couple of Developers, and stuff like that. And so, getting that group think, that mind share, into one room together, gets everybody's creative juices flowing. So, people are starting to learn from each other, that the Dev's, are getting some ideas about how infrastructure works, the infrastructure guys are getting some ideas about, you know, how to, how to automate a certain piece of their job. To make that, you know, minimize and maximize a thousand times, you know, go away. So, I love... I love the larger groups because of that. The smaller groups are more specialized, more niche. So, like, when you get into a smaller version, then, it's mostly infrastructure guys, or mostly Dev's, or some mixture thereof. So, they both definitely have their place, and that's why I love doing both of them. >> Yeah, and, you know, what can you share, kind of, speeds and feeds of this show here. I know, it's usually over a thousand people >> Yep. >> You know, had, you know, bunch of keynotes going on. You know, we talked about The Patriots, in, you know, quite a number of, you know, technology companies, people that are the, kind of, SI's or VAR's in the mix. >> Yeah, so, we had, I think, 35 sponsers. We had, six different keynotes, or six general sessions. We talked about everything from Azure to AWS, to Vmware. We covered the gamate of the things that the users are interested in. >> You had... don't undersell the general sessions there. (laughing) There was one that was on, like, you know, Blockchain and Quantum computing, I heard. >> Yep, yep. >> There was, an Amazon session, that was just, geekin' out on the database stuff, I think, there. >> Yes, yeah, Graph tier, yep. >> So, I mean, you know, it's not just marketing slideware up there, I saw a bunch of code in many of the sessions. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> You know, this definitely is, you know, I was talkin' with the Amazon... Randell earlier, here on the program, and said that-- >> The Amazon Randall. (laughing) >> Yeah, yeah, sorry, Randall from Amazon, here. >> He's a very large weber. >> Gettin' at the end of the day, I've done a few of these, but, you know, remember like, four years ago, the first, like, cloud 101 session here? >> Yeah, yep. >> And, I was like, you know, I probably could have given that session, but, everybody here was like, "Oh, my gosh", you know, I just found out about that electricity. >> Right. >> You know, that, this is amazing. And, today, most people, understand a little bit more of... We've gotten the 101, so, you know, I'm getting into more of the pieces of it, but. >> Yeah, it was really gratifiying because, the one that he gave was, all of the service, all of the new services, of which, there were like, more than 100, in 50 minutes or less. And, he talks really, really fast. And, everybody was riveted, we... I mean, people were coming in, even up until the last minute. And, they all got it. It wasn't like, what am I do... what am I going to do with this? It's, this is what I need to know, and this is valuable information. >> Yeah, we were having a lunch conversation, about, like, when you listen to a Podcast, what speed do you listen on? So, I tend to listen at about one and a half speed, normally. >> Me too, yep. >> You know, Frappe was sayin', he listens at 2x, normally. >> Does he really? >> Somebody like, Randall, I think I would, put the video up, and you can actually go into YouTube, and things like that, and adjust the speed settings, I might hit, put him down to 0.75, or something like that, >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Because absolutely, you know, otherwise, you can listen to it at full speed, and just like, pause and rewind, and then things like that. But, definitely, someone... I respect that, I'm from New Jersey, originally, I tend to talk a little faster, on camera I try to keep a steady pace, so that, people can keep up with my excitement. >> I do, I speed up too. He actually, does this everyday. He flies to a new city, does it once a day. So, he's, he's gotten... This is like rapid fire now. >> Alright, want to give you the final word, you know, VTUG, you know, I think, people that don't know it, you go to VTUG.com, A Big Winter Warmer, here. There's The Big Summer one, >> The Summer Slam. >> With the world famous, you know, Lobster Bake Fest, there, I've been to that one a few times. I know people that fly from other countries, to come to that one. What else should we know about? >> So, we're about to revamp the website, we've got some new and interesting stuff coming up on there. Now that, we also have our slack channel, everybody communicates on the backhand through that. We're going to start having some user content, for the website. So, people can start posting blog articles, and things of that nature, there. I'm going to start doing, like a little, AW... like learn AWS, on the VTUG blog, so, people can start, you know, ramping up on some of the basics and everything. And, and if, that gains traction, then, we'll maybe get into some more advanced topics, from Azure, and AwS, and Vmware of course, Vmware is always going to be there, that's... Some of the stuff that Cody is doing, Cody Jarklin is doing, over at Vmware, like the CAS stuff, where it's the shim layer, and the management of all the different clouds. That's some really, really cool stuff. So, I'm excited to showcase some of that on the website. >> Alright, wow. Chris Williams, really appreciate you coming. And, as always, appreaciate the partnership with the VTUG, to have us here. >> Thanks for havin' me. >> Alright, and thank you as always for watching. We always love to bring you the best community content, we go out to all the shows, help extract the signal for the noise. I'm Stu Miniman, thanks for watchin' The CUBE. (energetic music) (energetic music) (energetic music)

. >>Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with the cube. We're in Reno, Nevada. Interbike is happening uh, this week in Reno. It's a big huge bike show. They have stuff up at the mountains. They've got stuff at the convention center. This is a small side of it put on by Royal Dutch gazelle, a bikes, 125 year old bike company that is all in on electric bikes. We came because this e-bikes story and part of the big motors, or excuse me, a little motors, big battery kind of last mile thing has really taken off. So we want to come get a better feel for what's going on and we're excited to have a dealer from Portland, one of the most bike friendly towns in all the U S he's wait, Greg. And he runs e-bike store weight. Great to see you. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. >>So you said you've had your store open for 10 years. 10 years. We were the first all I looked at short store to open in Portland. Actually it was part of an MBA project. I was in China taking a class, saw electric bikes for the first time, gas had just spiked and realize these are the most efficient form of motorized transportation known. Right. And nobody was doing it. And so next class I had wrote a business plan, launched it 10 years ago by putting 25,000 on a credit card and borrowed 10,000 from a friend and 10 years later we're still here. Love it, love the story. It's been, it's been a fun ride. So it's just, you know, you're the second retailer we've had on and they were also exclusive e-bikes in the Bay area. So you know, was the kind of existing bike infrastructure attitude, you know, industry just looking down to these only things where they just too weird to new Y, you know, kind of the early ones are e-bikes only. >>What's interesting, if you come to the market right now, what you see is you see some of the largest companies in the world putting a lot of resources, engineering resources, manufacturing resources, testing resources behind e-bikes. Back in the day, it wasn't such you, these manufacturers make them in the kind of, the customer was a test person. Right. And so it's been a very bumpy road to get to this point. But at this point they're very reliable. And so at first when caught, when shops were brought these things, they said, why would I ever carry that? Who can keep it running? You know? And now it's at the point where they're very easy to keep her on. They have log files, you plug it into the computer if you have a problem with it and it tells you, Oh error code, fix this one thing and off you're going again. >>But it hasn't always been such. And so the Rick older bike shops in particular avoided them because you make your money in a bike shop by having a customer for life and they couldn't keep them running. So they were nervous. They would not be able to keep the customer. Right. And there was a, it was wise, you know, now it's at the point where all the IBDs are coming in in Portland right now we have seven electrical only bike shops. All the big IBDs are carrying it with IBD, independent bike dealers. Okay. And on top of that, half the people that are looking for any bike will not buy from a traditional bike shop. It only come to an e-bike specialist. And so that's kind of our niche is the people and we really focus on that. So we try to have all of our, how we explain things, not to use big bike terms. >>We talk about how it would value the customer and use a whole different lingo than a traditional shop. Right. So it is a lot of different things going on with bikes. So one of them, right, is the speed, um, and then, and how it's classified. So yes, you know, there's the kind of the 20 mile an hour limit and we see that in the scooters and all these electric vehicles that keep it not a motor vehicle. And then they've got one here. I think it was 27 or 28 miles across three class three. So the laws seem to be kind of trying to catch up, like how do we classify these things? Are they bikes? Are they allowed on the bike path? Are they not allowed on the bike? Pass the hop. It's funny you bring that up tonight. Evolve. Well, it's funny you bring that up today because just today by Portland, which is one of the biggest bike blogs in the nation, um, came out with an article saying they were relatively in the fine print of or Portland code, my city's code and found out you can't ride your bike on the city paths and the city parks, and I didn't know this, I've been in business 10 years, but the very fine print and under dissertation you can't do it. >>Um, so it is, it's a gray space. Um, the 20th mile an hour bikes. Well it seems crazy fast when you and I are standing here. When you're on a road and there is a backup of cars behind you, where's the 20 mile an hour speed limit and they're driving 25 right. You know, it feels kind of safer to be able to go 25 with them and not hold them up and be able to get away from the door and, and zone. We're in a car doesn't go over to the store and you by taking the lane it feels much safer. So I actually, you know, I ride a class one most of the time but I, I do like riding class three bikes. Right. Just curious in terms of of the change of experience on an E bike versus a regular bike, some of the customers that you have, how is it fundamentally different? >>Cause I, you know I came to here today thing and this was really a last mile play. It's not a last mile play at all. For us, about 35% of our customers, their e-bike is their main mode of transportation. It is their car. It is how they get around and about 20% historically from our shop having people with physical disabilities or limitations in some way, shape or form 20%, 20%. So it's people who can no longer make it up the Hill to their house. It's people who can't arrive at work sweaty. It's people with ms, people who are missing along, people who have CLPD, um, you name it. These are people who now can ride again and getting them active again. And so it's a whole different mindset. Um, historically the bike industry has really gone after kinda the elite athlete, right? And this is something different. >>It's people who have, may haven't written a bike for oftentimes 20 plus years, right. Are now able to get out and go on a Hill. And the most interesting thing, they did a study in Australia where they put on, they worked with psycho stupid, been injured and they hooked him up to exercise bikes in front of a video screen showing them as they're paddling down the road essentially. And they change the video to climb a Hill, but they didn't change the settings on the exercise bike. They're sitting on the cyclist reported a higher level of pain when the visual show them climbing the Hill. So e-bikes do the exact reverse of that. And you're actually rewiring your brain so that bikes don't add pain and you can get where you need to go easily and efficiently. Right. So it's their primary, their primary methods. So you talked about the connectivity, um, you know, an app, integrated experience with all these devices we see over and over. >>So how has that changed your experience? Are you, is it, is it app for the consumer in terms of they're keeping track of their miles? Is it just for you and the maintenance or how's the integration of an app working through different ways for the app? So there's a mechanics app, we can plug it in and see the error codes. And that's important because being back in the day, someone will come in and say, I wrote this thing at mile 25 it cut out and stopped working. So after work, you know, or we go out and ride 25 miles and try to see if we could recreate the issue. And it was a pain. Now wait, you just told me it wasn't a pain to ride 25 buses. This is back in the day. It was a pain to try falls off. Intermittent issues are the bane of our existence. >>Yes, yes. But the uh, having a log file, we just plug it in and says, Oh, it cut out because of this error code, you know, and boom. Okay. Replaced the speed sensor. Good. You're back up and rolling. Right. Especially with people who commute. They don't want to leave their bike in the shop. They want ready within 24 hours or less. And so it's gotta be turned right. And so it's a whole different form of mechanics and a whole different level of support from the bike dealer. And that's why we choose the bike lines we choose like gazelle. Right. Who support their products very well. So it's pretty interesting that you said, you know, we talked about the scooter space and one wheels and all that fun stuff. So many deals, companies were started with Kickstarter. It's amazing to me how many kind of Kickstarter projects actually turned into real companies. >>Boosted future motion being a couple of my favorites. Future motion. Actually the design behind it was the guy who first invented the cell and unicycle unicycles Daniel Wood, he's actually from clock, I remember from Clackamas right across the river from Portland. And so I tried as original version of the self-balancing unicycle, which they made their first one wheels from and that, you know, it's come a long way and there's the one wheel, but it's been fascinating progression to watch him write and bring that out too. But that's very different than 125 year old Dutch company that's been making Mike making these bikes for a hundred plus years. Really? It's funny, we have, I think there's seven models here that they're showing today. I asked the exact guys how many regular bikes models they have and they're like one. Yeah. So, so they're all in. I mean this is significant. >>You think about some of the biggest companies in the world market cap. Bosch has always worn the top five or 10 market companies in the world. They make the largest set of best selling system in the United States and in Europe. Right? And they're behind it. They have millions of lithium batteries and people's homes already through their power tool division. They're the kind of engineering they're bringing is staggering and it's been really fun to be part of an industry that has been so nascent and yet just boom. Right. You just comes up with fright before you write for your eyes. Okay, so I got to ask you about the, whether you're from Portland, Portland rains a lot in, in, in Holland. How does the rain impact these things? Obviously you just send us their primary vehicle. Is it, is it more dangerous? Is there more spray? >>Is it, is it a factor? Not a factor. This is where the lines you carry make a huge difference. So when you, if you carry it, if you buy one off the internet that hasn't been product tested, you are the product tester. If you buy one like this, they literally have like a saltwater steam bath. They put the bikes in for weeks to stimulate Marine corrosion. They have hydraulic machines that the tar out of them. And so when you get a product, it just works. Um, and so we've had a, we had a Bosch system go completely underwater. Now, I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody's experience. We had a guy literally put the bike in a river. He went one way. The bike went another, not on purpose, not on purpose. It was underwater for a few minutes. Right? Right. At work and rode home. >>And about a week later it made some noises and we told Bosch what happened, it was not a warranty issue with it was a collision. And Bosch said, you know, we haven't had enough warranty claims. You have some extra motors, we're going to send you a new one. And the guy said, it uses daily commuter. Right? Um, and it works great. Right? So, so w rain does not affect them, but it really depends on the model you have and how much product testing and how much engineering has gone in behind it to make sure you have the experience. Cause lithium and water are not generally friends. No. So, so just, I'll give you the last word. When you talk to people that are new to the space, maybe they just stumbled into the store, they heard about these e-bike things. What's kind of the biggest surprise that you see time and time again when people get one of these things and bring it home. >>Number one is that it rides like a bike. You can just go further. Um, th how well integrated they are. Um, on average the Baker's written 75% more than a traditional bike, 75% more, 75% more. Um, on average you can go about, well, the average speed wise on it. Um, I just study on this today. You know, you can increase your time by an average cycles average 11 miles an hour average e-bike average is about 13 to 1415 around there. And I forget the exact number. So I'm giving a bit of a gray area there. A little bit faster. Yeah. And so it gets you where you're going faster with less sweat. Right. We'll wake. Thanks for, uh, for taking a minute. What a, it's a, it's a cool story. And you know, Portland obviously is leading the charge in this, in this whole transformation. It's been a fun place to be and our customers are just awesome and no two ways about it. Super. Well, thanks again. He's waking. Jeff, you're watching the cube. We're at the Royal Dutch gazelle bike event at Interbike. Thanks for watching. Thank you.

>> Announcer: Live from Vancouver, Canada. It's theCUBE covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018, brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost John Troyer and you're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in tech coverage and this is exclusive coverage from OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Usually this time of year it is a little bit overcast, but for the second time the OpenStack Summit has been here, the sun is shining. It has been gorgeous weather but we are in here really digging in and understanding it One of the people I have gotten to know through this community especially, is our wrap up guest today, Sean Michael Kerner, who is a senior editor with eWeek, amongst other bi-lines that you have. Pleasure to see you. >> Great, good seeing you too Stu. >> Alright, so we let you keep on the Toronto Bluejays hat >> Thank you, there we go. >> We have had quite a few Canadians on our program here. >> Well, seeing as how you're here in Canada, it's not all that surprising. >> It's lovely. They have you working on Victoria Day. >> Yeah, that's unfortunate but I will take Memorial Day off in a week, so it works out. >> Excellent. So Sean, for our audience that might not know you, give us a little bit about your background. You've been to umpteen of these shows. >> Sure. I have been with the same publication roughly, I guess 15-16 years at this point. I've been writing before there was cloud, core living and Opensource stuff, networking. And then through the magic of technology, I shifted a little bit to security, which is a core focus for me. I have been to every OpenStack Summit since the San Diego Summit, I guess, 2011. Somebody can correct me afterwards. I did miss the Sydney Summit for various reasons, but yeah, I've been to a bunch of these things, so interesting to see how things have shifted over the years from nothing to certain heights to where we are now. >> Alright, so bring us up to that, as to where we are now. Attendance is down a little bit. They haven't been talking a lot about it but quality I guess is here. Sessions, they've broadened down a bit of the scope. We have been digging into it, but want to get your take so far. >> Yeah, well it's like anything else, there are standard hype cycles, as it were and there's a trough of disillusionment. I wouldn't call this a trough of disillusionment, but when you get to a certain plateau, people just, there'sn't as much interest. In the early days, I remember the San Diego Summit I went to. They didn't schedule it properly. They didn't know how many people they were going to have, and they had to line up around the corner and stuff. That was six years ago, but that is when OpenStack was new. There was no such thing as the Foundation, and everyone was trying to figure out what was what. And, there was no clue at this point. Cloud is a well understood thing. There are competitive efforts or complimentary efforts, as the Foundation would probably like to put it; whether it's CNCF, there's the public cloud and it's different. There is, with all respect to the OpenStack Foundation and its member projects, there's not as much excitement. This in now a stable, mature ecosystem and because of that, I don't think there's as much of a draw. When something is brand new and shiny, you get more of a draw. If they would have put the name Blockchain somewhere, maybe, maybe they would have had a few more. They put Kubernetes in there, which is fine, but no machine learning or artificial intelligence quite yet, though that's a topic somewhere in there too. >> Yeah, John, you've been making a lot of comments this week talking about we've matured and the lower layer pieces just work a bit more. Give us your take about that. >> Sure. That's the way it seems. There wasn't a whole lot of talk about the release, news release, and all the different components, even the keynotes. But, the people we have talked to, both on the vendor and the customer side, they have working production OpenStack environments. They're very large. They require very few admins. They work. They're embedded in telecom and banking, et cetera. It's here and it's working. >> Yeah, that's so something that happened, maybe three cycles ago at this point, because they used to have the release the same time as the Summit and the Design Summit. It was together, so, there was essentially a celebration of the release. People would talk about the release and then they desegrigated that. I think that took a lot of steam out of the reason why you got developers to attend. So, when you don't have the Design Summit, there's this separate open endeavor, there's the forum, I don't quite understand how that works here now. There isn't as much momentum. Yeah, I agree with you. There has been very little talk about Queens. In each of the project update sessions I have been to, and I have been to a couple, there has always been a slight on Rocky, what's coming. I think we are on the second milestone of Rocky, at this point, so there's some development, but at this point it is incremental featurettes. There is no whiz bang. OK, we're going to have flying cars, you know send a Tesla to outer space kind of Earth shattering kind of news, literally, because that's not where it's at. It's just incremental tuck in features in stability and that kind of thing. >> Alright, you talk space and thinks like that and it brings to mind a certain attendee of the program that has actually been to outer space and maybe one of the more notable moments of the show so far. Give us your take on Mr. Shuttleworth. >> Well, I'm a big fan of Mr. Shuttleworth, top to bottom. Hey Mark. Big fan, always have been. He has his own opinion on things of course. Usually in a keynote you don't tend to take direct aim at competitors and he chose to do that. It made some people a little uncomfortable. I happened to be sitting in the front row, where I like to sit, and there was some Red Hat people, and there were some frantic emails going back and forth. And people were trying to see what was going on et cetera. I think, for me, a little bit of drama is okay. You guys go to more shows than I do, and sometimes you get these kind of sales kind of things. But in an open community, there's almost an unwritten rule, which perhaps will be written after this conference, that whether or not everybody is a business competitor or not, is that this is neutral territory as it were and everybody is kind of friendly. In the exhibit hall, you can say this and that, we are better, whatever, but on the stage you don't necessarily do that, so there was some drama there. Some of my peers wrote about that and I will be writing about it as well. It's a, I prefer to write about technology and not necessarily drama. Whether somebody is faster, better, stronger than others, you let the number prove them out. When we talk about Opensource, Opensource Innovation without Canonical, there probably wouldn't have been an OpenStack. All the initial OpenStack reference and limitations are on Canonical. They got a number of large public clouds, as does Red Hat. I think they both have their tactical merits and I'm sure on some respects Red Hat's better and on some respects Canonical is better, but him standing up there and beating on the competition was something that across the 13 summits I have been I have never seen before. One guy I talked to my first OpenStack Summit was in San Diego and the CTO of VMware at the time came up to, VMware was not an OpenStack contributor at the time, they were thinking about it, and he was fielding questions about how it was competitive or not and he was still complimentary. So there has always been that kind of thing. So, a little bit of an interesting shift, a little bit of drama, and gives this show something memorable, because you and I and others will be able to talk about this five years from now, et cetera. >> You talked about something you would write up. I mean part of your job is to take things back to the readers at eWeek. >> Yeah. >> What are the things, highlights you're going to be covering? >> The highlights for me, Stu and I talked about this at one point off the camera, this is not an OpenStack Summit necessarily, they're calling it Open Infrastructure. I almost thought that they would change, we almost thought that they would change the name of the entire organization to the Open Infrastructure Foundation. That whole shift, and I know the foundation has been talking about that since Sydney last year, that they're going to shift to that, but, that's the take away. The platform itself is not the only thing. Enabling the open infrastructure is nice. They're going to try and play well and where it fits within the whole stack. That gets very confusing because talking about collaboration is all fine and nice, but that is not necessarily news. That is how the hot dog is made and that's nice. But, people want to know what's in that dog and how it is going to work. I think it's a tougher show for me to cover than it has been in past years, because there has been less news. There's no new release. There was Kata 1.0 release and there was the Zuul project coming out on its own. Zuul project, they said it was 3.0, it was actually March was Zuul 3.03. Kata Container project, okay, interesting, we'll see how it goes. But a tougher project, tougher event for me to cover for that reason. Collaboration is all fine and nice. But, the CNCF CloudNativeCon KubeCon event two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, had a little bit more news and a lot it's same kind of issues come up here. So, long winded answer, tough to come up with lessons learned out of this, other than everyone wants to be friends, well some people want to be. And, collaboration is the way forward. But that is not necessarily a new message. >> When I think about Kubernetes, we are talking about the multi cloud world and that's still, the last few years, where it's been. Where does OpenStack really fit in that multi cloud world? One of the things I have been a little disappointed actually, is most of the time, when I'm having a conversation, it's almost the, yeah, there's public cloud, but we are going to claw things back and I need it for governments, and I need all of these other things. When I talk to customers, it is I'm going to choose what I put in my data center. I'm going to choose how I use probably multiple public cloud finders. It is not an anti-public cloud message, and it feels a little bit on the anti-public cloud mass. I want to work with what you're hearing when you >> talk to users? >> When I talk to users, vast majority of people, unless it's something, where there's regulatory issues or certain legacy issues or private cloud, public cloud period. The private cloud idea is gone or mostly gone. When I think about private clouds, it's really VmWare. We have virtualized instances that sitting there. >> What's OpenStack? >> OpenStack is fine, but how many are running OpenStack as a private cloud premise? >> Yeah, so what's OpenStack then? >> When I think of OpenStack, Oracles public cloud. Oracle is not here surprisingly. Oracle's public cloud, Larry Ellison, who I know you guys have spoken to more than once on theCUBE at various points on Oracle World and other things. Oracle's public cloud, they want to compete against AWS. That's all. OpenStack IBM cloud, all OpenStack. The various big providers out of China are OpenStack based. OEH is here. So that's where it fits in is that underlying infrastructure layer. Walmart uses it. Bestbuy, all these other places, Comcast, et cetera; ATT. But individual enterprises, not so much. I have a hard time finding individual enterprises that will tell me we are running our own private cloud as OpenStack. They will tell me they're running VmWare, they will tell me they're running REV or even some flavor of Citrix end server, but not a private cloud. They may have some kind of instances and they will burst out, but it's not, I don't think private cloud for mid tier enterprises ever took off the way some people thought five years ago. >> That's interesting. Let's go meta for a second. You talked about things you do and don't write about, you don't necessarily write the VC's are not here necessarily, but you don't write about necessarily financial stuff. >> Sometimes. There was actually at the Portland summit, I did a panel with press and analysts at the time and afterwards there might have been four different VC's that came up to me and asked me what I thought about different companies. They were looking at different things where they would invest. And I remember, we looked at the board and one VC who shall remain nameless, and I said you know what, we'll look at this board with all these companies and five years from now, three quarters of them will not be here. I think I was probably wrong because it is more than that. There are so many. I wrote a story, I don't remember the exact name of it, but I wrote a story not that long ago about OpenStack deadpool. There are so, multiple companies that raised funding that disappeared. In the networking space, there were things like Plumgrid, they mminorly acquired for assets by Vmware, if I'm not mistaken. There was Pivotal, Joshua McKenzie, one of the co-founders of OpenStack itself, got acquired by Cisco. But they would have collapsed perhaps otherwise. Nebula Computing is perhaps, it still shocks me. They raised whatever it was 50 odd million, someone will correct me afterward. Chris Kemp, CTO of NASA who helped start it. Gone. So, there has been tremendous consolidation. I think when VC's lose money, they lose interest really fast. The other thing you have to think about, from the VC side, they don't write too much on the financial. My good friend Fredrick, who didn't make it, Where are you, Fredrick, where are you? Does more on that funding side. But has there been a big exit for an OpenStack company? Not really, not really. And without that kind of thing, without that precedence it's a tough thing, especially for a market that is now eight years old, give or take. >> Even the exits that had a decent exit, you know that got bought into the say IBM's, Cisco's of the world, and when you look a couple of years later, there's not much left of those organizations. >> Yeah. It's also really hard. People really don't want to compete against, well, some people want to compete against AWS. But, if you're going to try to go toe to toe with them, it's a challenge. >> Okay, so what brings you back here every year? You're speaking at the show. You're talking to people. >> What brings me back here is regardless of the fact that momentum has probably shifted, it's not in that really hype stage, OpenStack's core infrastructure, literally, core infrastructure that runs important assets. Internet assets, whether it certain public cloud vendors, large Fortune 500 companies, or otherwise. So it's an important piece of the stack, whether it's in the hype cycle or not, so that brings me back, because it's important. It brings me back because I have a vested interest. I have written so much about it so I'm curious to see how it continues to evolve. Specifically, I'm speaking here on Thursday doing a panel on defending Cloud Counsel Security as a core competence, a core interest for me. With all these OpenStack assets out there, how they're defended or not is a critical interest. In the modern world, cyber attacks are a given. Everybody should assume they're always under a constant state of attack and how that security works is a core area of interest and why I will keep coming back. I will also keep coming back because I expect there to be another shift. I don't think we have heard the end of the OpenStack story yet. I think the shift towards open infrastructure will evolve a little bit and will come to an interesting conclusion. >> Alright, last thing is what's your favorite question you're asking at this show. Any final things you want to ask us as we wrap? >> Yeah, my favorite, well, I want to ask you guys, what the most interesting answer you got from all the great people you interviewed because I'm sure some of it was negative and you got mostly positive as well. >> Well, we aren't used to answering the questions Stu. >> I'm used to being on the other side here, right. >> Well, I do say we got a lot of stuff about some interesting and juicy cases, like I say, the practitioners I talked to were real. I was always impressed by how few administrators it takes to run a huge OpenStack based cloud once it's set up. I think that's something interesting to me. You asked some folks about a public cloud a lot. >> Yeah, so it has been interesting. For me, it's, we've reached that certain maturity level. I was looking at technology. What's kind of the watermark that this is going to come to? We had said years ago, I don't think you're going to have somebody selling a billion dollars worth of distribution on OpenStack. So, that story with how Kubernetes and Containers and everything fits in, OpenStack is part of the picture, and it might not be the most exciting thing, but then again, if you watch Linux as long as most of us have, Red Hat took a really long time to get a billion dollars and it was much more than just Linux that got them there. This still has the opportunity to be tooling inside the environment. We have talked to a number of users that use it. It's in there. It's not that the flagpole, we're an OpenStack company anymore because there really aren't many companies saying that that is the core of their mission, but that is still an important piece of the overall fabric of what we are covering. >> Exactly right. >> Alright, we on that note, Sean Michael Kerner, we really appreciate you joining us. Please support good technology journalism because it is people like him that help us understand the technology. I read his stuff all the time and always love chatting with him off the record and dragged him on here and Fredrick from Techron Show we are disappointed you could not join us, but we'll get you next time. For Jon Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, be sure to join us for the third day tomorrow of three days of wall to wall live coverage here from OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. And once again, thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)