>>Set restaurants. And who says TEUs had got a little ass more skin in the game for us, in charge of his destiny? You guys are excited. Robert Worship is Chief Alumni. >>My name is Dave Ante, and I'm a long time industry analyst. So when you're as old as I am, you've seen a lot of transitions. Everybody talks about industry cycles and waves. I've seen many, many waves. Met a lot of industry executives and of a little bit of a, an industry historian. When you interview many thousands of people, probably five or 6,000 people as I have over the last half of a decade, you get to interact with a lot of people's knowledge and you begin to develop patterns. And so that's sort of what I bring is, is an ability to catalyze the conversation and, you know, share that knowledge with others in the community. Our philosophy is everybody's expert at something. Everybody's passionate about something and has real deep knowledge about that's something well, we wanna focus in on that area and extract that knowledge and share it with our communities. This is Dave Ante. Thanks for watching the Cube. >>Hello everyone and welcome back to the Cube where we are streaming live this week from CubeCon. I am Savannah Peterson and I am joined by an absolutely stellar lineup of cube brilliance this afternoon. To my left, a familiar face, Lisa Martin. Lisa, how you feeling? End of day two. >>Excellent. It was so much fun today. The buzz started yesterday, the momentum, the swell, and we only heard even more greatness today. >>Yeah, yeah, abs, absolutely. You know, I, I sometimes think we've hit an energy cliff, but it feels like the energy is just >>Continuous. Well, I think we're gonna, we're gonna slide right into tomorrow. >>Yeah, me too. I love it. And we've got two fantastic analysts with us today, Sarge and Keith. Thank you both for joining us. We feel so lucky today. >>Great being back on. >>Thanks for having us. Yeah, Yeah. It's nice to have you back on the show. We were, had you yesterday, but I miss hosting with you. It's been a while. >>It has been a while. We haven't done anything in since, Since pre >>Pandemic, right? Yeah, I think you're >>Right. Four times there >>Be four times back in the day. >>We, I always enjoy whole thing, Lisa, cuz she's so well prepared. I don't have to do any research when I come >>Home. >>Lisa will bring up some, Oh, sorry. Jeep, I see that in 2008 you won this award for Yeah. Being just excellent and I, I'm like, Oh >>Yeah. All right Keith. So, >>So did you do his analysis? >>Yeah, it's all done. Yeah. Great. He only part, he's not sitting next to me too. We can't see it, so it's gonna be like a magic crystal bell. Right. So a lot of people here. You got some stats in terms of the attendees compared >>To last year? Yeah, Priyanka told us we were double last year up to 8,000. We also got the scoop earlier that 2023 is gonna be in Chicago, which is very exciting. >>Oh, that is, is nice. Yeah, >>We got to break that here. >>Excellent. Keith, talk to us about what some of the things are that you've seen the last couple of days. The momentum. What's the vibe? I saw your tweet about the top three things you were being asked. Kubernetes was not one of them. >>Kubernetes were, was not one of 'em. This conference is starting to, it, it still feels very different than a vendor conference. The keynote is kind of, you know, kind of all over the place talking about projects, but the hallway track has been, you know, I've, this is maybe my fifth or sixth CU con in person. And the hallway track is different. It's less about projects and more about how, how do we adjust to the enterprise? How do we Yes. Actually do enterprise things. And it has been amazing watching this community grow. I'm gonna say grow up and mature. Yes. You know, you know, they're not wearing ties yet, but they are definitely understanding kind of the, the friction of implementing new technology in, in an enterprise. >>Yeah. So ge what's your, what's been your take, We were with you yesterday. What's been the take today to take aways? >>NOMA has changed since yesterday, but a few things I think I, I missed talking about that yesterday were that, first of all, let's just talk about Amazon. Amazon earnings came out, it spooked the market and I think it's relevant in this context as well, because they're number one cloud provider. Yeah. And all, I mean, almost all of these technologies on the back of us here, they are related to cloud, right? So it will have some impact on these. Like we have to analyze that. Like will it make the open source go faster or slower in, in lieu of the fact that the, the cloud growth is slowing. Right? So that's, that's one thing that's put that's put that aside. I've been thinking about the, the future of Kubernetes. What is the future of Kubernetes? And in that context, I was thinking like, you know, I think in, when I put a pointer there, I think in tangents, like, what else is around this thing? So I think CN CNCF has been writing the success of Kubernetes. They are, that was their number one flagship project, if you will. And it was mature enough to stand on its own. It it was Google, it's Google's Borg dub da Kubernetes. It's a genericized version of that. Right? So folks who do tech deep down, they know that, Right. So I think it's easier to stand with a solid, you know, project. But when the newer projects come in, then your medal will get tested at cncf. Right. >>And cncf, I mean they've got over 140 projects Yeah. Right now. So there's definitely much beyond >>Kubernetes. Yeah. So they, I have numbers there. 18 graduated, right, 37 in incubation and then 81 in Sandbox stage. They have three stages, right. So it's, they have a lot to chew on and the more they take on, the less, you know, quality you get goes into it. Who is, who's putting the money behind it? Which vendors are sponsoring like cncf, like how they're getting funded up. I think it >>Something I pay attention to as well. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa, I know you've got >>Some insight. Those are the things I was thinking about today. >>I gotta ask you, what's your take on what Keith said? Are you also seeing the maturation of the enterprise here at at coupon? >>Yes, I am actually, when you say enterprise versus what's the other side? Startups, right? Yeah. So startups start using open source a lot more earlier or lot more than enterprises. The enterprise is what they need. Number one thing is the, for their production workloads, they want a vendor sporting them. I said that yesterday as well, right? So it depend depending on the size of the enterprise. If you're a big shop, definitely if you have one of the 500 or Fortune five hundreds and your tech savvy shop, then you can absorb the open source directly coming from the open source sort of universe right. Coming to you. But if you are the second tier of enterprise, you want to go to a provider which is managed service provider, or it can be cloud service provider in this case. Yep. Most of the cloud service providers have multiple versions of Kubernetes, for example. >>I'm not talking about Kubernetes only, but like, but that is one example, right? So at Amazon you can get five different flavors of Kubernetes, right? Fully manage, have, manage all kind of stuff. So people don't have bandwidth to manage that stuff locally. You have to patch it, you have to roll in the new, you know, updates and all that stuff. Like, it's a lot of work for many. So CNCF actually is formed for that reason. Like the, the charter is to bring the quality to open source. Like in other companies they have the release process and they, the stringent guidelines and QA and all that stuff. So is is something ready for production? That's the question when it comes to any software, right? So they do that kind of work and, and, and they have these buckets defined at high level, but it needs more >>Work. Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, kind of stood out to me, I have good friend in the community, Alex Ellis, who does open Fast. It's a serverless platform, great platform. Two years ago or in 2019, there was a serverless day date. And in serverless day you had K Native, you had Open Pass, you had Ws, which is supported by IBM completely, not CNCF platforms. K native came into the CNCF full when Google donated the project a few months ago or a couple of years ago, now all of a sudden there's a K native day. Yes. Not a serverless day, it's a K native day. And I asked the, the CNCF event folks like, what happened to Serverless Day? I missed having open at serverless day. And you know, they, they came out and said, you know what, K native got big enough. >>They came in and I think Red Hat and Google wanted to sponsor a K native day. So serverless day went away. So I think what what I'm interested in and over the next couple of years is, is they're gonna be pushback from the C against the cncf. Is the CNCF now too big? Is it now the gatekeeper for do I have to be one of those 147 projects, right? In order enough to get my project noticed the open, fast, great project. I don't think Al Alex has any desire to have his project hosted by cncf, but it probably deserves, you know, shoulder left recognition with that. So I'm pushing to happen to say, okay, if this is open community, this is open source. If CNC is the place to have the cloud native conversation, what about the projects that's not cncf? Like how do we have that conversation when we don't have the power of a Google right. Or a, or a Lenox, et cetera, or a Lenox Foundation. So GE what, >>What are your thoughts on that? Is, is CNC too big? >>I don't think it's too big. I think it's too small to handle the, what we are doing in open source, right? So it's a bottle. It can become a bottleneck. Okay. I think too big in a way that yeah, it has, it has, it has power from that point of view. It has that cloud, if you will. The people listen to it. If it's CNCF project or this must be good, it's like in, in incubators. Like if you are y white Combinator, you know, company, it must be good. You know, I mean, may not be >>True, but, >>Oh, I think there's a bold assumption there though. I mean, I think everyone's just trying to do the best they can. And when we're evaluating projects, a very different origin and background, it's incredibly hard. Very c and staff is a staff of 30 people. They've got 180,000 people that are contributing to these projects and a thousand maintainers that they're trying to uphold. I think the challenge is actually really great. And to me, I actually look at events as an illustration of, you know, what's the culture and the health of an organization. If I were to evaluate CNCF based on that, I'd say we're very healthy right now. I would say that we're in a good spot. There's a lot of momentum. >>Yeah. I, I think CNCF is very healthy. I'm, I'm appreciative for it being here. I love coupon. It's becoming the, the facto conference to have this conversation has >>A totally >>Different vibe to other, It's a totally different vibe. Yeah. There needs to be a conduit and truth be told, enterprise buyers, to subject's point, this is something that we do absolutely agree on, on enterprise buyers. We want someone to pick winners and losers. We do, we, we don't want a box of Lego dumped on our, the middle of our table. We want somebody to have sorted that out. So while there may be five or six different service mesh solutions, at least the cncf, I can go there and say, Oh, I'll pick between the three or four that are most popular. And it, it's a place to curate. But I think with that curation comes the other side of it. Of how do we, how, you know, without the big corporate sponsor, how do I get my project pushed up? Right? Elevated. Elevated, Yep. And, and put onto the show floor. You know, another way that projects get noticed is that startups will adopt them, Push them. They may not even be, I don't, my CNCF project may not, my product may not even be based on the CNCF product. But the new stack has a booth, Ford has a booth. Nothing to do with a individual prod up, but promoting open source. What happens when you're not sponsored? >>I gotta ask you guys, what do you disagree on? >>Oh, so what, what do we disagree on? So I'm of the mindset, I can, I can say this, I I believe hybrid infrastructure is the future of it. Bar none. If I built my infrastructure, if I built my application in the cloud 10 years ago and I'm still building net new applications, I have stuff that I built 10 years ago that looks a lot like on-prem, what do I do with it? I can't modernize it cuz I don't have the developers to do it. I need to stick that somewhere. And where I'm going to stick that at is probably a hybrid infrastructure. So colo, I'm not gonna go back to the data center, but I'm, I'm gonna look, pick up something that looks very much like the data center and I'm saying embrace that it's the future. And if you're Boeing and you have, and Boeing is a member, cncf, that's a whole nother topic. If you have as 400 s, hpu X, et cetera, stick that stuff. Colo, build new stuff, but, and, and continue to support OpenStack, et cetera, et cetera. Because that's the future. Hybrid is the future. >>And sub g agree, disagree. >>I okay. Hybrid. Nobody can deny that the hybrid is the reality, not the future. It's a reality right now. It's, it's a necessity right now you can't do without it. Right. And okay, hybrid is very relative term. You can be like 10% here, 90% still hybrid, right? So the data center is shrinking and it will keep shrinking. Right? And >>So if by whole is the data center shrinking? >>This is where >>Quick one quick getting guys for it. How is growing by a clip? Yeah, but there's no data supporting. David Lym just came out for a report I think last year that showed that the data center is holding steady, holding steady, not growing, but not shrinking. >>Who sponsored that study? Wait, hold on. So the, that's a question, right? So more than 1 million data centers have been closed. I have, I can dig that through number through somebody like some organizations we published that maybe they're cloud, you know, people only. So the, when you get these kind of statements like it, it can be very skewed statements, right. But if you have seen the, the scene out there, which you have, I know, but I have also seen a lot of data centers walk the floor of, you know, a hundred thousand servers in a data center. I cannot imagine us consuming the infrastructure the way we were going into the future of co Okay. With, with one caveat actually. I am not big fan of like broad strokes. Like make a blanket statement. Oh no, data center's dead. Or if you are, >>That's how you get those esty headlines now. Yeah, I know. >>I'm all about to >>Put a stake in the ground. >>Actually. The, I think that you get more intelligence from the new end, right? A small little details if you will. If you're golden gold manak or Bank of America, you have so many data centers and you will still have data centers because performance matters to you, right? Your late latency matters for applications. But if you are even a Fortune 500 company on the lower end and or a healthcare vertical, right? That your situation is different. If you are a high, you know, growth startup, your situation is different, right? You will be a hundred percent cloud. So cloud gives you velocity, the, the, the pace of change, the pace of experimentation that actually you are buying innovation through cloud. It's proxy for innovation. And that's how I see it. But if you have, if you're stuck with older applications, I totally understand. >>Yeah. So the >>We need that OnPrem. Yeah, >>Well I think the, the bring your fuel sober, what we agree is that cloud is the place where innovation happens. Okay? At some point innovation becomes legacy debt and you have thus hybrid, you are not going to keep your old applications up to date forever. The, the, the math just doesn't add up. And where I differ in opinion is that not everyone needs innovation to keep moving. They need innovation for a period of time and then they need steady state. So Sergeant, we >>Argue about this. I have a, I >>Love this debate though. I say it's efficiency and stability also plays an important role. I see exactly what you're talking about. No, it's >>Great. I have a counter to that. Let me tell you >>Why. Let's >>Hear it. Because if you look at the storage only, right? Just storage. Just take storage computer network for, for a minute. There three cost reps in, in infrastructure, right? So storage earlier, early on there was one tier of storage. You say pay the same price, then now there are like five storage tiers, right? What I'm trying to say is the market sets the price, the market will tell you where this whole thing will go, but I know their margins are high in cloud, 20 plus percent and margin will shrink as, as we go forward. That means the, the cloud will become cheaper relative to on-prem. It, it, in some cases it's already cheaper. But even if it's a stable workload, even in that case, we will have a lower tier of service. I mean, you, you can't argue with me that the cloud versus your data center, they are on the same tier of services. Like cloud is a better, you know, product than your data center. Hands off. >>I love it. We, we are gonna relish in the debates between the two of you. Mic drops. The energy is great. I love it. Perspective. It's not like any of us can quite see through the crystal ball that we have very informed opinions, which is super exciting. Yeah. Lisa, any last thoughts today? >>Just love, I love the debate as well. That, and that's, that's part of what being in this community is all about. So sharing about, sharing opinions, expressing opinions. That's how it grows. That's how, that's how we innovate. Yeah. Obviously we need the cloud, but that's how we innovate. That's how we grow. Yeah. And we've seen that demonstrated the last couple days and I and your, your takes here on the Cuban on Twitter. Brilliant. >>Thank you. I absolutely love it. I'm gonna close this out with a really important analysis on the swag of the show. Yes. And if you know, yesterday we were looking at what is the weirdest swag or most unique swag We had that bucket hat that took the grand prize. Today we're gonna focus on something that's actually quite cool. A lot of the vendors here have really dedicated their swag to being local to Detroit. Very specific in their sourcing. Sonotype here has COOs. They're beautiful. You can't quite feel this flannel, but it's very legit hand sound here in Michigan. I can't say that I've been to too many conferences, if any, where there was this kind of commitment to localizing and sourcing swag from around the corner. We also see this with the Intel booth. They've got screen printers out here doing custom hoodies on spot. >>Oh fun. They're even like appropriately sized. They had local artists do these designs and if you're like me and you care about what's on your wrist, you're familiar with Shinola. This is one of my favorite swags that's available. There is a contest. Oh going on. Hello here. Yeah, so if you are Atan, make sure that you go and check this out. The we, I talked about this on the show. We've had the founder on the show or the CEO and yeah, I mean Shine is just full of class as since we are in Detroit as well. One of the fun themes is cars. >>Yes. >>And Storm Forge, who are also on the show, is actually giving away an Aston Martin, which is very exciting. Not exactly manufactured in Detroit. However, still very cool on the car front and >>The double oh seven version named the best I >>Know in the sixties. It's love it. It's very cool. Two quick last things. We talk about it a lot on the show. Every company now wants to be a software company. Yep. On that vein, and keeping up with my hat theme, the Home Depot is here because they want everybody to know that they in fact are a technology company, which is very cool. They have over 500,000 employees. You can imagine there's a lot of technology that has to go into keeping Napa. Absolutely. Yep. Wild to think about. And then last, but not at least very quick, rapid fire, best t-shirt contest. If you've ever ran to one of these events, there are a ton of T-shirts out there. I rate them on two things. Wittiest line and softness. If you combine the two, you'll really be our grand champion for the year. I'm just gonna hold these up and set them down for your laughs. Not afraid to commit, which is pretty great. This is another one designed by locals here. Detroit Code City. Oh, love it. This one made me chuckle the most. Kiss my cash. >>Oh, that's >>Good. These are also really nice and soft, which is fantastic. Also high on the softness category is this Op Sarah one. I also like their bird logo. These guys, there's just, you know, just real nice touch. So unfortunately, if you have the fumble, you're not here with us, live in Detroit. At least you're gonna get taste of the swag. I taste of the stories and some smiles hear from those of us on the cube. Thank you both so much for being here with us. Lisa, thanks for another fabulous day. Got it, girl. My name's Savannah Peterson. Thank you for joining us from Detroit. We're the cube and we can't wait to see you tomorrow.

>>Okay, welcome back everyone. This is the cube coverage here at Remar. Amazon Remar stands for machine learning, automation, robotics, and space. And we're here for a robotics. Cool segments. We have Monia on the desk. We'll get Caitlin Caitlin clay bar head. Ofri welcome to the cube and follow Virginian, founder and CEO of Moxi. Thanks for coming on and thanks for bringing this special third guest. Thank you for helping >>Us. >>This is exciting. Okay. So first of all, we'll get into the company a second, but what do we, what is this? What what's going on? This is amazing. >>Go. This is Moxi. This is our first product out of embodied and it is a social, emotional learning AI friend for children, ages five to 10 currently. >>That's what he, he or she likes me. Yes. Staring at me right now. I'm a child. Thank he. Nice to see you. >>And it has all sorts of content and in multi back and forth interaction. Yeah. And it's, it's our first pass at doing socially. >>Okay. So this product is shipping. >>It is shipping. Yeah. Available. It is available. We've been out for over a year now shipping for over a year now. >>Okay. Oh man. It just makes me feel good. It must be a big seller across all use cases. So what's the number one thing you guys getting attention on right now from Moxi besides the cool factor, the tech what's going on? >>Well, I think we have received a lot of interest from many people because Mo Mox is captured the imagination of people in terms of what is possible in the future. And really the Genesis of it is that I've been doing robotics for 20 years and sort of a little bit disappointed with what we have accomplished in robotics, because there's so much where we can do we have dreamt about robots for centuries. But what we were dreaming about was not robotic vacuum cleaners, which guilty as charged. I was part, I was a CTO at iRobot and we wanna see robots that can actually can really care for us from childhood to retirement. And Moxi represents the AI technology we have developed. That's gonna make that next wave of robotics to flourish. >>You must be really excited because I think right now, one of the main, my main walkaway themes so far from this show is technology's not the blocker anymore. It's the people human side of it, where it used to be technology slow. And robotics has been that area where we've seen great innovation, but where's that needle moving moment coming. I think now with cloud and all the things happening seems to be the moment. >>I think we are seeing exponential growth in technology. That's gonna enable robots to become unreal. As an example, Moxi uses very advanced, conversational engine where you literally can talk to Moxi about anything you want. So it can be a real companion. It will understand, you understand your needs and emotions and start working on social, emotional development for children. This technology, which are as transformer models, deep neural networks that are trained on millions of conversation. We are seeing every year, 10 X improvement to this. So I predict in the next two to three years, you will be able to have a conversation with Moxi. That's like having a subject expert matter expert in every single subject. Yeah. >>Yeah. That's like getting a cube interview like instantly, Hey, Moxie, what's the information. So I could see the tie in and it's just my mind's blown, I guess in the sense of the use cases are wide. You get wide ranging use cases, elderly care, child development, loneliness, all kinds of social, emotional factors. >>Yeah. We've built a really incredible platform that we're hoping to expand out beyond kids. I mean, kids is kind of our, this is our first product, but Moxi the fact that we have what we call our social X platform and the tools where you can create content and Moxi can have conversations about any number of things it's >>So share. What's what technology is under the covers here with the human robotic interface kind of dynamic, you got software, you got hardware, you're gonna have code. You got the neural networks. It's kind of the confluence of a lot of different vectors coming together. What's the secret sauce. >>So that's what we call our social X platform. And really it you're right. Everything has to work in concert and at a price point that's affordable for people. So Moxie's able to actually track people in the real world and we are able to fuse people's speech. And you know, we do facial recognition for the specific child. So Moxie knows its mentor and personalize the interaction over time. >>Well, she's talking to me or he is a, she is a gender neutral robot, I guess, like whatever I want it to be, I guess >>We've left it intentionally gender neutral, but kids kind of yeah. Prescribe whatever gender they feel connected. >>Yes. Good, good. You enables the user. Yes. Really? The key what's what's been the biggest use case that you didn't think would be coming to the table with Moxi anything surprise you, you must get a lot of reactions. >>Yeah. So you covered some of the ones we are focused on. We are particularly focused on mental health from childhood to retirement and aging gracefully. After we launched Moxi we had a TikTok video that went crazy viral. We got 40 million views on this. And that led to a lot of interest from celebrities. Yeah. >>From some of the most luxury hotel chains that have reached out to us and they want to use the technology in Moxi to develop a personal Butler for every guest room, as an example, that's one example, right? So we have one of the largest violence intervention program in the us that caters to children that have unfortunately been through very traumatic experiences in their life and want to use Moxi as a way to provide therapy to these children. Yeah. Yeah. So the use cases are very broad. We even have people from different countries that were very interested in using Moxi for, for instance, teaching a Chinese child, how to speak English, immersively by interacting with Moxi, which is the best way to learn a different language. So I think the implications of this are paramount. Yeah. We will even see in contact centers, centers, customer support centers, and so on will use technology like this for having them empathetic AI that's actually taking care of your customer service complaints rather than a robotic way of >>Interacting with. I was just on, on earlier with an interview here with Deloitte and AWS on conversational AI and trust was a big conversation. Yes. Trust and, and ethics. So you got ethics, trust bias, all these things are of factors. You got human interaction from a physical and then software standpoint. What, what other hard problems are in here that you guys are solving? Come on. This is incredible because these are hard problems. >>Yes they are. And one of them is the famous cocktail party problem. And Palo being our fearless CEO really drove the team to get Moxi to this state where Moxie's able to interact with people, even in this environment, which is pretty incredible and like lock in and have a back and forth conversation. It's very exciting. >>So Moxi how do you feel you feeling good? What's the biggest challenge you've had here? Audio. Congratulations. That's really impressive. I'm so impressed. And again, it it's again, not to oversimplify it. There's a lot of hard problems going on here that are, that are being solved. >>Absolutely. There's >>Human interaction. You get a physical device. >>Exactly. It's a physical device. And like how we have designed Moxi down to the color of Moxie's eyes, the color of the shell, all of that has taken a lot of iteration to get to a point where we really have a robot that people feel like they can trust, feel like they can connect with. And, >>And even something to add to this is that we have many robots that cost tens of thousands of dollars, because it's very easy to keep adding more sensors and more compute power. And so on. You end up with robots that cost 10, 20, $30,000. One of the goals we set at the outset was we want to make Moxi as, as affordable as an iPhone. So, and Moxi is right. The price point of Moxi is same as owning an iPhone. You pay about a thousand dollars up front plus a monthly subscription fee. And that not >>The Ram cap upgrade the Ram on that too. >>We have very limited brand. >>We have please. Very, >>If you can convince it >>IPhone, I can always get the 2 56 or the one terabyte, >>Right? No, it, it really actually makes it much harder to develop technology that's affordable >>For yeah. Yeah, totally. >>And we wanted to do that because we wanted to have impact. >>So are you shipping now or are you on allocation? I can imagine that demand is off the >>Charts. Definitely. We sold out last year when we launched the product. Now we are resolving supply chain issues that everyone is suffering from due to COVID and this year we'll have better ability to meet demand. >>So this is people want it. There's a lot of demand. >>Right? >>You guys a smile having fun. Yes. Right. All right. So now talking about the product, take me through the product. What's the challenges here. Obviously the animation in the camera. I see the camera. I see some lights there at heart speaker. What would Moxi be doing if wasn't, if we weren't here, if we were at home. >>So as in interacting with a child at home, we've seen a lot of people actually put Moxy on the floor and kids will like lay down and interact with Moxy. And there are a lot of different activities right now it's doing a little jukebox dance, but there are more kind of therapy or mental health and, and social, emotional learning, driven content. Like children can read a book with Moxi and we use the screen, not just to show that great, cute facial expression and the eye contact, but we also can show icons and some additional information. And so in this way, we've created a very new type of interface for a machine, with a child, >>Not to get all product visionary and roadmap oriented here. But I can imagine interfacing out to a third party screens in the future where this is gonna stay compact and affordable. And if I'm interacting and I want to display a visual, is that something you guys are guys going beyond that you're still focused on the product here? So what's some of the vision you have >>There definitely. There will be versions of our social X platform, finding their way into what we may call the metaverse, where you could have hyper realistic models of humans driven by our AI to interact with you the way you and I are interacting, but embodiment where the name of the companies derive from is actually super important in the kind of things we are doing with mental health and social emotional development. Because the physical co-presence of an entity like this interacts with our brains in a different way than when we do on extreme. So there is gonna be both versions for some applications will be virtual. Other applications will be >>Physical. Well, that's a wait and see, see what happens, sell out the next batch inventory where the product yeah. >>And the embodiment. It does. It just, it hits a little different, you know, kids yeah. Will actually physically tuck Moxi in at night. There's there's something there >>That's, there's something there tangible, I think it's great. Home run. I mean, just having the response, the visual response, the facial makes an impact instantly. >>Absolutely. >>So you can extend that out, probably make it more immersive, whether it's metaverse or within your home. >>Yeah. And now with AR VR goggles, where you get this 3d immersive experience, it may get closer to the impact we can have with an embodied agency. So the lines are blurring obviously between the physical and the digital. >>Well, great to have you guys on. Thanks for bringing the, the, the Moxi on Moxi to come on. This event kind of symbolizes this revolution. We're seeing the robotics industrial shift space is a good example of one. This is another machine learning, the software business cloud, all great, you know, force multipliers to enable value creation. Where do you guys see this going Remar as this whole intersection, you got a lot of different disciplines coming together. We're seeing here in the cube and we're talking to folks that we think it's gonna be a needle moving moment for the, for the industrial era. What do you guys take on this? >>Absolutely. I mean, >>Robotics has always been right around the corner, but with the advances of technology in the last 10 years or so, this is now really possible and it's growing at exponential rates. So the future is exciting. Obviously we have to guide it. You talked about ethics. So being ethical about it, being mindful about how we want to deploy this technologies to actually have positive impact on us. For instance, we do not believe in replacing a human labor or the need for humans, but we believe in augmenting humans, right. And technology today can actually do that. Yeah. >>Know that whole argument's been debunked for decade, the whole bank teller. Oh, they're gonna put tellers outta business. No, there's more tellers now than ever before. So I think technology is gonna create much greater aperture of, of opportunities. And I think the question I'd love to get, get you guys to share is this is gonna wake up a lot of generational, young talent to come into the workforce, cuz the problems are there. It's not a technology. It's a human mind, creative problem. Now it's more of, you know, you're gonna see robotics probably being accelerated even more now than it is. It's still growing. Yeah. Young kids love robotics. >>I mean, it's incredible to see the breadth of applications of robotics at, at this event specifically and just, I don't know, getting into it. I mean, I haven't been in it as long as you pow, but five, 10 years ago, you wouldn't have seen, I mean, this just wouldn't be possible. >>The robotics clubs are more popular now in high, most high schools in the United States than some sports there's a and a B team and people get cut from the B team. There's so much demand. There's so much excitement cuz it's building. If you get your hands on and it's got software, it's got coding. Absolutely. It's got building. >>Absolutely. And you are, you are creating, there are figures like Steve jobs, Jeff Bezos, LAN Musk that are inspiring children to go into stem education and really build a career in that area, which is much more exciting than the, the opposite. >>Great. What do you guys think about re Mars this year? What's your walk away? What's the big story here besides Moxi cuz we recovered that right now. What's what's the, what's the trend. What's the high level. What's the most important story people should pay attention to? >>I think we're just gonna see robotics or machine learning and we're just gonna see it in almost every application and it's going to be, the word was ambient was being used during the keynote. And I think that's really true. Ambient intelligence, like having robots in your everyday life as well as just AI in your everyday life. And it's gonna feel seamless. >>It's pretty impressive. Paul, what's your take on the, the >>Big story? I would say one of the trends we are seeing at even here at AWS, Amazon re remarks is making machines more human. Yeah. Even Astro the product that was launched last September, I believe by Amazon is adding a lot of facial affect emotions and understanding of humans for decades. We have been bound to using keyboards and touch screens and yeah. Clicks here and there. And it's gonna change it's time for machines to learn, to understand us. Yeah. And that is gonna be a trend that we will see even in the self self-driving cars, which are not gonna have a steering wheel, but the machine will understand our mood and drive accordingly. >>Yeah. And you know, Apollo, you guys are doing Caitlin your work here. I think highlights what I'm seeing as it's a future theme. That's positive. It has a vibe of like, we need a good to come. You know, it's like, when's the good gonna happen? And I think, >>I think we're ready for that. >>The theme's here though. They're very positive forward thinking practical engineered, you know, and solving problems, right? Real problems. The climate change and the keynote. We talking about healthcare and, and having things be solved this way. This is the new, the new normal, it's a human problem now to solve >>It is. And I think we are all, all of us are a bit more aware of that after the pandemic, because pan the pandemic was hard on everyone in different ways and we are more mindful of the positive. Right? We are looking for something positive and hopefully yeah. Coming out of the pandemic, now we have a global crisis, but these, these technologies will transform life and the world in a positive way. Yeah. >>You guys doing a great job. Congratulations on the success of >>Moxi. Thank >>You. Great work. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. I wanna let more platform maybe next time. We'll have a conversation. We'll talk about the platform in tric season, then detail. So, but thanks for coming on the queue. Appreciate the problem. >>Thank you. Our pleasure. Okay. >>It's the Cube's coverage here in Las Vegas for Amazon re Mars. I'm John furrier. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the queue covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>We'll go back to the cubes coverage of UI paths forward for big customer event. You know, this company has always bucked the trend and they're doing it again. They're having a live event, physical event. There are customers here, partners, technologists. I'm here with Lisa Martin, my co-host for the show. And we're going to talk about testing. It's a new market for UI path. If anybody knows anything about testing, it's kind of this mundane, repetitive process ripe for automation geared vice-chairs. Here's the senior vice president of testing products at UI path and Matt Elisa. Who's the product marketing lead at UI path. Gents. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having us feminists. Explain to us how you guys think about testing both from an internal perspective and how you're going to market. >>Yeah, well, testing has been around for a long time, right? 25 years or so when, when I came to UI pass, the first thing I looked at was like, how do our customers test RPA? And it's quite interesting. We did a survey actually with 1500 people and, uh, 27% said that they wouldn't test at all. And I thought that's really interesting. RPA is a business critical software that runs in your production environment and you probably have to test. So we came up with this idea that we create the test suite we're using, you know, proven technology from UI pass. And, and we built this offering and brought this into the market for RPA testing and for application testing. So we do both. And of course we use it internally as well. I mean, that will be, you know, eat your own dog food or drink your own champagne, I guess. Yeah. >>Well, think about it. If you, if you automate, if you, if there's an ROI to automate a process, there's gotta be an ROI to verify that it's going to work before it goes into production too. And so it's amazing that a lot of companies are not doing this and they're doing it manually, um, today. >>So, so, but so, but parts of testing have been automated, haven't they with regression testing. So can, can you guys take us through kind of the before and after and how you're approaching it versus the traditional way? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, testing is not new, right? Um, but still when you look at the customers, they're not out to meeting more than I would say, 30, 40% of the manual tests. So still a lot of Stan manually, which I think, and we talked about this right manual testing is the, the original RPA. It's a tedious, repetitive tasks that you should not do manually. Right? And so what we are trying to bring in is now we're talking about this new role, it's called a digital tester. The digital tester is an empowered. We could call a manual tester, who's able to build automation and we believe that this will truly increase the automation, even in the existing testing market. And it's going to be, I don't want to use the word game-changer, but it's gonna change. Uh, the way testing is done. Yeah. >>And we're, we're applying, um, all the capabilities of UI path and delivering those testers, just like we would for HR team or a, or a, a finance and accounting team. But testing even has they understand this more, they've been doing this for 20 years. They understand automation and we're going to get them things like process mining so they can figure out what tests they need to run from production data. We're going to give them task mining so they can make more human-like tests test. Exactly. Like I used to be a tester, uh, and I ran a test team. And what I used to do is I have to go out to a warehouse and I'd have to go watch people as they entered orders, to make sure I was testing it the right way. So they would like click. We usually thought they were clicking things, whether you're using hotkeys, that's just an example of what they were doing. But now we can do task, task mining to get that remotely, pull that data in and do tests and make more realistic tests. >>How much of the there's so much potential there? I think you were saying that only 27% are actually doing testing. So there's so much opportunity. I'm curious, where are your conversations within the customer organization? We know that automation is a board level investor topic. Where are you? Where are those discussions with the testing folks, the RPA folks, helping them come together? >>Well, that's interesting. The question we typically, on the IP side, we talked to the cos by the people that are professionally developing those RPAs, but very easily, we get introduced to the test side of the house. And then usually there's a joint meeting where the test people are there, the RPA people are there. And that's why we are talking about this is going to convert somehow, right? They are in different departments today. But if you think about it, if five years down the road, maybe 10 years, they might be an automation discipline for the entire enterprise. So if that answered your question about, >>Yeah, >>Yeah. And we have a customer coming presenting this afternoon, Chipola and they're gonna be talking about how they, both of the teams are using a test teams and the RPA teams. And they built a reusable component library that, so when they built RPA team built their automations, they put them in a reusable library and the test team is able to recreate their tests much faster, reusing about 70% of the components. And so when the, when you think of automation, they're thinking about automating the application, not automating a process or a test so that people can use those like Lego blocks and build it if they're doing so, they could even, even it automation, if they wanted to start doing it, automation, they could pull those components out and use those. >>This is game changing is quality because so often, because in this day and age of agile, it's like move fast and break things. A lot of things break. And when we heard this morning in the keynotes, how you guys are pushing code like a couple of times a week, I mean, it's just a constant. And then you do two big releases. Okay. I get, I get it for the on-prem. But when you're pushing code that fast, you don't have time to test everything. There's a lot of stuff that's unknown. And so to the extent that you can compress all those checkboxes, now I can focus on the really important things that sometimes are architectural. How do you expect applying RPA to testing is going to affect the quality? Or maybe you got some examples. Chipotle. You just mentioned what, >>First of all, I mean, when you say we pushing code like bi-weekly or so, right. We're talking about continuous development. That's what it's called. Right? It's agile. You have sprint cycles, you continue to bring new code, new code, new code, and you test all the increments with it. So it's not that you building up a huge backlog for the testing on the RPA side. What I see is that there will be a transformation about the process, how they develop RPA at the moment. It's still done very much, I would say, in a waterfall issue, which is agree, >>A big bang waterfall. >>Yeah. It will transition. We already have partners that apply agile methodologies to their actually RPA development. And that's going to change that. >>Okay. So it's not so it's quality for those that are in testing obviously, but, but it's, but for the waterfall guys, it's, it's compressing the time to value. Oh yeah. That's going to be the big key. Yeah. That's really where it's coming. >>But he said his Chipotle is, was able to reuse 70% of the automation components. Right. That's huge. I mean, you have to think about it. 70% can be reused from testing to RPA and vice versa. That's a huge acceleration. Also on the IPA side, you can automate more processes faster. If you have components that you can trust. >>So you were a tester. Yeah. So you were a cost center. Yes, exactly. >>Unnecessary. What's the budget. >>So could you think RPA and automation can flip that mindset? Yes, >>Totally. And that's one of the things we want to do is we want to turn testing from a cost center to a value center, give testers a new career paths, even because really testers before all you could do is you could be more technical. Maybe you become a developer or you could be a manager, but you couldn't really become like an automation architect or a senior automation person. And now we're giving them a whole different career path to go down. So it's really exciting >>Because I know when I came out of college, I had a job offer and I wanted to be a developer, a programmer. We call them back then. And the only job I could get was as a tester. And I was like, oh, this is miserable. I'm not doing this, but there's a, there was a growth path there. They were like, Hey, do this for two or three years, maybe five years. I was like, forget it. I'm going into sales and marketing. But so what's the, what's the growth path today for the tester. And how do you see this >>Changing? So you want to go, you want to, I can take that one. No, you take it. I mean, I did it, so really it's, I mean, we're going to be giving these guys, the testing market has been kind of not innovating for years and years and years. And so we're going to be giving these guys some new tools to make them more powerful, make even the cause. Testing is a kind of a practice that is, you know, like, like you said, you didn't like testing. I didn't like testing either. Actually I hate testing. So I automated it. Right. So, um, and so that was the first thing I did. And so I think we're going to give these guys some new tools, some ways to grow their career and some ways to be even better testers, but like, like, like we talked about process mining, test mining, like maybe they're maybe they're testing the wrong things. Maybe they're not testing, you know, maybe, you know, there, cause there's kind of this test, everything mentality where we need to test everything and the whole release instead of like focusing in on what changed. And so I think we'll be able to help them really focus on the testing and the quality to make it more efficient as well. However, >>So T to defend the testers, right test is a very skilled people. Yes. They know their business, they know what to test and how to test in a way that nobody else knows that it's something we sometimes underestimate. They are not developers, so they don't write code or they don't build automations typically. But if we can equip them with tools that they can build out information, you have the brain and the muscle together, you know what I mean? You don't have to delegate the automation to some, whatever team that is maybe outsourced even you can do it. In-house and I think to some extent, that was also the story of Chipotle, right? Yeah. Yeah. They were in sourcing again because they're building their own >>And it saved them time because they have deal is handoffs, you know, to an external third party to do the testing for them. And so they pulled it all in made things much more streamlined and efficient. How >>Is that? It seems like a big cultural shift within any type of organization in any industry we're using as an example here, how does UI path help facilitate that cultural shift? Cause that's big and we're talking about really reducing, um, or speeding time to value. >>Right. Right. And it is a lot of the agile methodology is like, we're starting. So it's kind of like, we're going back in time, you know, and we're teaching these people, you know, the RPA community, all of the things that we learned from software development. Right. And so we're going to bring applying that to this. And so all those agile mindset, the th the agile values, you know, those are the things that are going to help them kind of come together. And that's one of the things that Julie talked about is one of the things is they had a kind of agile mindset, a can-do attitude that pulled them together. >>I think one thing that will really helps with changing the culture is empowering the people. If you give them the tools that they can do, they will do, and that will change the culture. I don't think it can come from top down. It needs to come from within and from the people. And that's what we see also with RPA, by the way, is adopted on department level and D build automations. And then at some point it becomes maybe an enterprise wide initiative, right. But somebody in HR had this idea and started >>The other thing too, is Matt, you mentioned this, you could go to a third party. So what years ago? In the early two thousands, we had a software company. We would use a company called agile on. They were us. I don't know if you ever heard of them. They're basically, we're a job shop. And we would throw our code over the very waterfall, throw the code over the fence. It was a black box and it was very asynchronous. And it would come back, you know, weeks later. And they say, I fix this, fix this, but we didn't have the analytics we didn't have. There was no transparency. Had we had that. We would have maybe come up with new ideas or a way to improve it because we knew the product way better. And so if you can bring that, in-house now you've got much better visibility. So what, what analytics are analytics a piece of this? >>Is that something that is so, I mean, I'll give you an example, SAP systems, right? When you have SAP systems, customers apply transports like five or 10 a day. Every transport can change the system in a way that you might break the automation. We have the possibility to actually not only understand what's going on in this system with process mining, but we also have the possibility to do change, impact, money, and change impact. Mining tells me with every process, every transport I apply, what has changed, and we can pinpoint the test cases that you need to run. So instead of running a thousand test cases, every time we pinpoint 50 of them and you know exactly what has changed. Yeah. >>That's right. Cause a lot of times you don't know what you don't know. And you're saying the machine is basically saying focus on these areas that are going to give you the biggest, that's kind of Amdahl's law, isn't it focus on the areas that are going to get the most return. Yeah. So this is a new business for UI path. You guys are targeting this as a market segment. Can you tell us more about that? >>We joined about two years ago. It takes some time to build something, right. There was a lot of proven technology there. And then we lounged, uh, I think it wasn't July last year, which was more like a, uh, private lounge. We, we didn't make much noise around it and it's gaining a lot of traction. So it's several hundred customers have already jumped on their test bandwagon, if you can call it this way. And yeah, this, this year we were pushing full speed into the testing market as well, because we see the benefits that customers get when they use both like the story from Chipotle. It has other customers like Cisco and, and more, when you hear the stories, what they were able to achieve. I mean, that's a no-brainer I think for any customer who wants to improve the automation. Yeah. >>Well, and also we're taking production grade automation and giving it to the testers and we're giving them this advanced AI so they can automate things. They weren't able to automate before, like Citrix virtual virtualized machines, point of sale systems, like 12 layer, any other business would have, they can automate all those things now that they couldn't do before, as well as everything else. And then they can also the testing tools, they talked about fragmentation this morning. That's another problem is there's a tool for mobile. There's a tool for this. There's a tool for API APIs. You have all these tools, you have to learn all these languages. We're going to give them one. They can learn and use and apply to all their technologies. And it's easy to use and it's easy to use. Yeah. >>That's kind of been the mantra of UI path for very long time, easy to use making, making RPA simple. We've got 8,000 plus customers. You mentioned a few of them. We're going to have some of them on the program this week. How do you expect good question for you that stat that you mentioned from that survey in the very beginning of our conversation, how do you expect that needle to move in the next year? Because we're seeing so much acceleration because of the pandemic. >>That's a really good question because the questions that we had in the, after we had the first hundred, right? The values didn't change that much. So we have now 1500 and you would assume that is pretty stable from the data. It didn't change that much. So we're still at 27% that are not testing. And that's what we see as our mission. We want to change that no customer that has more than, I dunno, five processes in production should not like not test that's crazy and we can help. And that's our mission. So, but the data is not changing. That's the interesting part. >>I know, I know we're out of time, but, but we're how do you price this? Is it a, is it a set? Is it a subscription? Is it a usage based model? How, how do you, >>It's fully included in the UI pass tool suite. So it means it's on the cloud and on-prem the pricing is the same. We are using this. There >>It is. Yeah. >>It's the same components. Like, like we're using studio for automation, we're using orchestrator, but we're using robots. We have cloud test manager on prem test manager. It's just a part of the >>Value, add that you're putting into the platform. Yeah, yeah, >>Exactly. Yeah. There are components that are priced. Yes. But I mean, it's part of the platform, how it is delivered. >>Yeah. So I paid for that module and you turn it on and use it. So it's a subscription. It could be an annual term if I want multi-year term. I can do that. Exactly. Good. Great guys. Thanks so much for coming on the Cuban and good luck with this. Thank you. Great, great innovations. Okay. Keep it right there at Dave Volante for Lisa Martin, we'll be back with our coverage of UI path forward for, from the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Keep it right there.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>We'll go back to the cubes coverage of UI paths forward for big customer event. You know, this company has always bucked the trend and they're doing it again. They're having a live event, physical event. There are customers here, partners, technologists. I'm here with Lisa Martin, my co-host for the show. And we're going to talk about testing. It's a new market for UI path. If anybody knows anything about testing, it's kind of this mundane, repetitive process ripe for automation geared vice-chairs. Here's the senior vice president of testing products at UI path and Matt Elisa. Who's the product marketing lead at UI path. Gents. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having a feminist Likert. Explain to us how you guys think about testing both from an internal perspective and how you're going to market. >>Yeah, well, testing has been around for a long time, right? 20 twenty-five years or so when, when I came to UI pass, the first thing I looked at was like, how do our customers test RPA? And it's quite interesting. We did a survey actually with 1500 people and, uh, 27% said that they wouldn't test at all. And I thought that's really interesting. RPA is a business critical software that runs in your production environment and you probably have to test. So we came up with this idea that we create the test suite. We're using, you know, proven technology from UI pass. And, and we built this offering and brought us into market for RPA testing in for application testing. So we do both. And of course we use it internally as well. I mean, that will be, you know, eat your own dog food or drink your own champagne, I guess. So >>I want to think about it. If you, if you automate, if you, if there's an ROI to automate a process, there's gotta be an ROI to verify that it's going to work before it goes into production too. And so it's amazing that a lot of companies are not doing this and they're doing it manually, um, today. >>So, so, but so, but parts of testing have been automated, haven't they with regression testing. So can, can you guys take us through kind of the before and after and how you're approaching it versus the traditional? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, testing is not new, right? Um, but still when you look at the customers, they're not out to meeting more than I would say, 30, 40% of the manual tests. So still a lot of Stan manually, which I think, and we talked about this right manual testing is the, the original RPA. It's a tedious, repetitive tasks that you should not do manually. Right? And so what we are trying to bring in is now we're talking about this new role it's called the digital tester. The digital tester is an empowered. We could call a manual tester, who's able to build automation and we believe that this will truly increase the automation, even in the existing testing market. And it's going to be, I don't want to use the word game changer, but it's going change. Uh, the way testing is done. Yeah. >>And we're, we're applying, um, all the capabilities of UI path and delivering those to testers, just like we would for HR team or a, or a, a finance and accounting team. But testing even has they understand this more, they've been doing this for 20 years. They understand automation and we're going to give them things like process mining so they can figure out what tests they need to run from production data. We're going to give them task mining so they can make more human-like tests test. Exactly. Like I used to be a tester and I ran a test team. And what I used to do is I have to go out to a warehouse and I'd have to go watch people as they entered orders, to make sure I was testing it the right way. So they would like click. We usually thought they were clicking things, but they were using hotkeys. That's just an example of what they were doing. But now we can do task task mining to get that remotely, pull that data in and do tests and make more realistic tests. >>So much of the there's so much potential there. I think you were saying that only 27% are actually doing testing. So there's so much opportunity. I'm curious, where are your conversations within the customer organization? We know that automation is a board level investor topic. Where are you? Where are those discussions with the testing folks, the RPA folks, helping them come together? >>Well, that's interesting. The question, uh, we typically on the IPS, have we talked to the cos, right? The people that are professionally developing those RPAs, but very easily, we get introduced to the test side of the house. And then usually there's a joint meeting where the test people are there, the RPA people are there. And that's why we are talking about this is going to convert somehow, right? The are in different departments today. But if you think about it, five years down the road, maybe 10 years, they might be at an automation discipline for the entire enterprise. So if that answered your question about, >>Yeah. >>Going to require a cultural shift. Yeah. And we have a customer coming presenting this afternoon. and they're gonna be talking about how they, both of the teams are using a test teams and the RPA teams. And they built a reusable component library that, so when they built RPA team built their automations, they put them in a reusable library and the test team is able to recreate their test much faster reusing about 70% of the components. And so when the, when you think of automation, they're thinking about automating the application, not automating a process or a test so that people can use those like Lego blocks and build it if they're doing so, they could even, even it automation, if they wanted to start with an it automation, they could pull those components out and use those. >>I think this is game changing is quality because so often, because in this day and age of agile, it's like move fast and break things. A lot of things break. And when we heard this morning in the keynotes, how you guys are pushing code like a couple of times a week, I mean, it's just a constant. And then you do two big releases. Okay. I get, I get it for the on-prem. But when you're pushing code that fast, you don't have time to test everything. There's a lot of stuff that's unknown. And so to the extent that you can compress all those check boxes, now I can focus on the really important things that sometimes are architectural. How do you expect applying RPA to testing is going to affect the quality? Or maybe you've got some examples. Chipotle, you just mentioned, >>First of all, I mean, when you say we pushing code like bi-weekly or so, right. We're talking about continuous development. That's what it's called. Right? It's agile. You have sprint cycles, you continue to bring new code, new code, new code, and you test all the increments with it. So it's not that you building up a huge backlog for the testing on the IPA side. What I see is that there will be a transformation about the process, how they develop RPA at the moment. It's still done very much, I would say, in a waterfall way, which is agree. A big bang waterfall. Yeah. It will transition. We already have partners that apply agile methodologies to their actually RPA development. And that's going to change that. >>Okay. So it's not so it's quality for those that are in testing obviously, but, but it's, but for the waterfall guys, it's, it's compressing the time to value. Oh yeah. That's going to be the big key. That's really worth. >>I mean, what he said is Chipotle is, was able to reuse 70% of the automation components. Right. That's huge. I mean, you have to think about it. 70% can be reused from testing to RPA and vice versa. That's a huge acceleration. Also on the RPA side, you can automate more processes faster. If you have components that you can trust. >>So you were a tester. Yeah. So you were a cost center. Yes, exactly. >>Unnecessary. What's the budget. >>So could you think RPA and automation can flip that mindset? >>Yeah, totally. And that's one of the things we want to do is we want to turn testing from a cost center to a value center, give testers a new career paths, even because really testers before all you could do is you could be more technical. Maybe you become a developer or you can be a manager, but you couldn't really become like an automation architect or a senior automation person. And now we're giving them a whole different career path to go down. So it's really exciting. >>'cause I know when I came out of college, I had a job offer and I wanted to be a developer, a programmer. We called them back then. And the only job I could get was as a tester. And I was like, oh, this is miserable. I'm not doing this, but there's a, there was, there's a growth path there. They were like, Hey, do this for two or three years, maybe five years. I was like, forget it. I'm going into sales and marketing. But so what's the, what's the growth path today for the tester. And how do you see this changing? >>So you want to go, you want to, I can take that one. No, you take it. So that's a really, yeah. I mean, I did it, so really it's, I mean, we're going to be giving these guys, the testing market has been kind of not innovating for years and years and years. And so we're going to be giving these guys some new tools to make them more powerful, make even the cause. Testing is a kind of a practice that is, you know, like, like you said, you, you didn't like testing. I didn't like testing either. Actually I hate testing. So I automated it. So, um, and so that was the first thing I did. And so I think we're going to give these guys some new tools, some ways to grow their career and some ways to be even better testers, but like, like, like we've talked about process mining, test mining, like maybe they're maybe they're testing the wrong things. Maybe they're not testing, you know, maybe, you know, there, cause there's kind of this test, everything mentality we're we need to test everything and the whole release instead of like focusing in on what changed. And so I think we'll be able to help them really focus on the testing and the quality to make it more efficient as well. >>Go ahead. So do to defend the testers, right? Test is a very skilled people. Yes. They know their business, they know what to test and how to test in a way that nobody else knows that it's something we sometimes underestimate. They are not developers so that they don't write code and they don't build automations typically. But if we can equip them with tools that they can build out information, you have the brain and the muscle together, you know what I mean? You don't have to delegate the automation to some, whatever team that is maybe outsourced even you can do it. In-house and I think to some extent, that was also the story of Portland sourcing again, because they're building their own automation. Yeah. >>And it saved them time because they have deal is handoffs, you know, to an external third party to do the testing for them. And so they pulled it all in made things much more streamlined and efficient. How >>Is that? It seems like a big cultural shift within any type of organization in any industry we're using Chipola as an example here, how does your path help facilitate that cultural shift? Because that's big and we're talking about really reducing, um, or speeding time to value. >>Right. Right. And it is a lot of the agile methodologies like we're starting. So it's kind of like, we're going back in time, you know, and we're teaching these people, you know, the RPA community, all of the things that we learned from software development. Right. And so we're going to be applying that to this. And so all those agile mindset, the th the agile values, you know, those are the things that are going to help them kind of come together. And that's one of the things that Julie talked about is one of the things is they had a, kind of an agile mindset, a can-do attitude that pulled them down. >>And I think one thing that will really helps with changing the culture is empowering the people. If you give them the tools that they can do, they will do, and that will change the culture. I don't think it can come from top down. It needs to come from within and from the people. And that's what we see also with RPA, by the way, is adopted on department level and D build automations. And then at some point it becomes maybe an enterprise wide initiative, right. But somebody in HR had this idea and started >>The other thing too, is Matt, you mentioned this you'd go to a third party. So years ago in the early two thousands, we had a software company. We would use a company called agile on. They were, so I don't know if you ever heard of them. They're basically, we're a job shop. And we would throw our code over the very waterfall, throw the code over the fence. It was a black box and it was very asynchronous. And it would come back, you know, weeks later. And they say, oh, I fixed this, fixed this, but we didn't have the analytics we didn't have. There was no transparency had we had that. We would have maybe come up with new ideas or have way to improve it because we knew the product way better. And so if you can bring that, in-house now you've got much better visibility. So what, what analytics are our analytics a piece of this? And is that something? Yeah. >>Yeah. So, I mean, they'll give you an example, SAP systems, right? When you have SAP systems, customers apply transports like five or 10 a day. Every transport can change the system in a way that you might break the automation. We have the possibility to actually not only understand what's going on in this system with process mining, but we also have the possibility to do change, impact, money, and change impact. Mining tells me with every process, every transport I apply, what has changed, and we can pinpoint the test cases that you need to run. So instead of running a thousand test cases, every time we pinpoint 50 of them and you know exactly what has changed. Yeah. >>That's right. Because a lot of times you don't know what you don't know. And you're saying the machine is basically saying focus on these areas that are going to give you the biggest, that's kind of Amdahl's law. Isn't it focus on the areas that going to get the most return. Yeah. So this is a new business for UI path. You guys are targeting this as a market segment. Can you tell us more about that? >>We joined about two years ago. It takes some time to build something, right. There was a lot of proven technology there. And then we lounged, uh, I think it wasn't July last year, which was more like a private lounge. We, we didn't make much noise around it and it's gaining a lot of traction. So it's several hundred customers have already jumped on that test bandwagon, if you can call it this way. And yeah, this, this year we are pushing full speed into the testing market as well, because we see the benefits that customers get when they use both like the story from Chipotle. It has other customers like Cisco and, and more, when you hear the stories, what they were able to achieve. I mean, that's a no-brainer I think for any customer who wants to improve the automation. Yeah. >>Well, and also we're taking production grade automation and giving it to the testers and we're giving them this advanced AI so they can automate things. They weren't able to automate before, like Citrix virtual virtualized machines, point of sale systems, like 12 layer, any other business would have, they can automate all those things now that they couldn't do before, as well as everything else. And then they can also the testing tools, they talked about fragmentation this morning. That's another problem is there's a tool for mobile. There's a tool for this. There's a tool for API APIs and you have all these tools. You have to learn all these languages. We're going to give them one that they can learn and use and apply to all their technologies. And it's easy to use and it's easy to use. Yeah. >>That's kind of been the mantra of UiPath for very long time, easy to use making, making RPA simple. We've got 8,000 plus customers. You mentioned a few of them. We're going to have some of them on the program this week. How do you expect good question for you that stat that you mentioned from that survey in the very beginning of our conversation, how do you expect that needle to move in the next year? Because we're seeing so much acceleration because of the pandemic. >>A really good question, because the questions that we had in the beginning after we had the first hundred, right? The values didn't change that much. So we have now 1500 and you would assume that is pretty stable from the data. It didn't change that much. So we're still at 27% that are not testing. And that's what we see as our mission. We want to change that no customer that has more than, I dunno, five processes in production should not like not test that's crazy and we can help. And that's our mission. So, but the data is not changing. That's the interesting part. >>And I know, I know we're out of time, but, but we're how do you price this? Is it a, is it a set? Is it a subscription? Is it a usage based model? How >>It's fully included in the UI pass tool suite. So it means it's on the cloud and on-prem the pricing is the same. We are using this. There it is. Yeah. It's the same components. Like, like we're using studio for automation, we're using orchestrator, but we're using robots. We have cloud test manager on prem test manager. It's just a part of the, >>So it's a value add that you're putting into the platform. Yeah, yeah, exactly. >>Yeah. Th there are components that are priced. Yes. But I mean, it's part of the platform, how, >>But it's a module. So I paid for that module and you turn it on and then they can use it. So it's a subscription. It could be an annual term if I want multi-year term, I can do that. Exactly. Good. Great guys. Thanks so much for coming on the Cuban and good luck with this. Thank you. Great, great innovations. Okay. Keep it right there at Dave Volante for Lisa Martin, we'll be back with our coverage of UI path forward for, from the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Keep it right there.

>>from the cube studios in Palo alto in boston connecting >>with thought leaders all around the world. This is a cute conversation. Hello and welcome to today's session of the 2021 AWS Global public sector Partner awards. I'm your host, Natalie ehrlich. Today we'll discuss the award for the most customer obsessed mission based win for state and local government. I'm pleased to introduce our guests for today's session Todd, Carey, Global Head West Business group Cognizant and David. Sullivan chief executive officer of Elizabeth river crossings. Thank you gentlemen for joining the program. >>Thanks >>Thanks Todd. >>I'd love to start with you. How are companies thinking about cloud today in their businesses? >>Well, there's some, some really exciting developments but at the heart of a cloud is changing the way companies interact with their customers, their suppliers and the way they think about business. And at cognizant it is really a customer first customer centric approach and then we work our way back to a solution. But most of the time, cloud decisions are not really made from a cost optimization or cost take out point of view. They're made from a customer experience or a business driver point of view. And how do we make businesses better? More, more scalable, more agile, more flexible and we've really built some some really great solutions that are industry specific and we've loved working with the R. C. In this capacity. >>How about you? I'd love to get your insight. Um As well. David, what what what do you see is like the main challenges and also how next gen technologies like you know, five G. Can help alleviate in those issues. >>Um Yes. First, it, like Todd said that, you know, the customer has an expectation and that expectation is raised every day by what they experienced in every other channel they work in and shop in and whatever they're doing so, so expectations are always increasing from the customer side, responsiveness personalization. They want to see all of that in everything they do, including paying their told bill. Um, and so I think as technology has changed, you know, tolling has kind of come from technology that is really 2030 years old or older. Uh, two more of a modern influence. And today we use R. F. I. D. Tags that are embedded in things like EZ Pass. But in the future it will be, it'll be your, your mobile device or your automobile itself that that triggers a total transaction and helps us process it and making in a way that is fast, convenient and most importantly accurate. >>Yeah. Well staying with you, David, I'd love to hear how working with AWS helped modernize your systems and as well as if you could give us some insight on your tracking systems. >>Yes. So with AWS, we have been working with Cognizant. Cognizant is our tolling subcontractor. So they are responsible for providing our tolling system. And we had what I would call a typical legacy tolling system. We had to data centers, both of them located pretty close together, a primary and a redundant data center and both of them very close to flood prone areas. And in our location in the southeast corner of Virginia were very vulnerable to tropical storms and tidal flooding. So part of our concern was, you know, we're exposed all our infrastructure, all our tolling infrastructure is exposed. So as we began to pursue a cloud strategy, uh the first idea was just to lift everything out of our environment and move it to a W. S. And Cognizant pull that off in about three months, uh which is really pretty incredible and we never missed a beat. Uh You know, we did it over a three day holiday weekend, but from a business transaction standpoint it all flowed once in the cloud. We began to rethink now that we're out of these legacy hardware environments, How do we get out of the legacy application environment and embrace what the cloud enables and working closely with Cognizant who had a great vision for how this could be achieved. We were able to, you know, systematically move through and migrate to a cloud first cloud oriented uh system. And uh you know, it's given us lower cost, increased availability and most importantly for our customer service agents that deal with customers or customers that deal with the web, it's given them a better experience uh shorter call times, better information and you know, and and frankly better customer satisfaction. >>Terrific. Well, thank you for that Todd. Let's shift to you. What do you see as the next phase of this digital transformation process? >>Well, as David hidden, I think it's an important theme of cloud first. I mean most companies in our clients start with that cloud forest, cloud native mentality. But for cognizant, our cloud approach is really customer first and being able to start with the client in mind and then work our way back into a technology staff or into a scalable solution. But specifically for the coal industry, there's a lot of things that are needed around revenue, predictability and looking at potential leakages. But as we hit on already of making sure that we're really delivering a great customer experience. And so with our solution, as we expect our tolling solution to really grow, we're keeping it cloud native, we're keeping it modular in nature and integration ready. So for example, are total customers can use their own roadside solutions or hand picked some of the small back office modules that they want to use. It's always going to be purpose bill and align to our customer and we see nothing but growth in this segment. It's very exciting. >>Yeah. Terrific. Well, David, you know, now that you've actually implemented this, what do you see as the next phase? What is your vision um for the future for your business in 2021? >>Well, I think, you know, for for us moving forward, um you know, we've been in this uh as Todd said, kind of a modular approach, which is great because you can make the changes and really manage your risk while you're making them. Um so you're you're moving small things. Whereas traditionally new systems meant massive investments, long, long time implementation times and you know, all in cut overs, all of which are packed with risk. So, you know, we want to reduce our risk and the solution that we have being cloud native allows us to really incrementally and quickly, just continually to improve the system. So you know, on our forecast, we would like to have a better insight into our customers and you know, support a direct app, Annie R. C. App that would allow our customers to interact with us and give us a better view of the customer um and a better experience for the customer overall. But you know, we, our goal is to build that total transaction accurately fairly. And then if the customer has an issue to be able to treat them in a way that uh that they feel respected and and valued as a customer because we we do look at it that way. >>Yeah, Terrific. I mean obviously, you know, engagement such an important issue in this area. Now I'd like to shift gears and here a little bit more about, you know, what are some of the other applications that cognizant could provide beyond tolling and let's shift this to Todd? >>Well, David had done a little bit, there's there's a lot of when we start to focus on the customer, there's a lot of opportunity there on the front side. So mobile apps, websites, the synchronization of data, but then also the way that we support that customer interacting with that data. Things like I've er automating, call centers, being able to support that customer through the entire chain of custody. There's some new and exciting applications now that we come out and David touched on a little bit too in terms of vehicles. So the vehicles to everything type motion. That's an exciting development in this segment as well to be able to continually integrate everything that's in the customer ecosystem. So whether that's uh, the, the need to pay a bill or be able to drive a car through a gate and be able to simply not touch anything but be able to have that all the way that payment process all the way through and have clear visibility into usage and insights. And then also be able to turn all that data over to a company like er, C to make good decisions based on what they see in terms of buying patterns, consumption, etcetera. There's a lot of expansion going on in this and the greatest part about this is it's built on the AWS platform. So when we architect something in a cloud native way, we can rapidly expanded and we can really streamline the investment required to jump start any kind of innovation and best of all our customers in keeping with the best model, really only pay for the actual traffic that they use so we can keep those long term costume. >>Yeah. Well, excellent point. Thank you both gentlemen for joining our program. Really loved having you. And uh, you know, that was Todd, Cary and David. Sullivan. Excuse me. And I'm your host, Natalie or like, Thank you for watching. >>Mm hmm. Mm.

(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, and welcome to this "Cube Conversation." My name is Dave Vellante and you know, containers, they used to be stateless and ephemeral but they're maturing very rapidly. As cloud native workloads become more functional and they go mainstream persisting, and protecting the data that lives inside of containers, is becoming more important to organizations. Enterprise capabilities such as high availability or reliability, scalability and other features are now more fundamental and important and containers are linchpin of hybrid cloud, cross-cloud and edge strategies. Now fusing these capabilities together across these regions in an abstraction layer that hides that underlying complexity of the infrastructure, is where the entire enterprise technology industry is headed. But how do you do that without making endless copies of data and managing versions not to mention the complexities and costs of doing so. And with me to talk about how IBM thinks about and is solving these challenges are Eric Herzog, who's the Chief Marketing Officer and VP of Global Storage Channels. For the IBM Storage Division is Sam Werner is the vice president of offering management and the business line executive for IBM Storage. Guys, great to see you again, wish should, were face to face but thanks for coming on "theCUBE." >> Great to be here. >> Thanks Dave, as always. >> All right guys, you heard me my little spiel there about the problem statement. Eric, maybe you could start us off. I mean, is it on point? >> Yeah, absolutely. What we see is containers are going mainstream. I frame it very similarly to what happened with virtualization, right? It got brought in by the dev team, the test team, the applications team, and then eventually of course, it became the main state. Containers is going through exactly that right now. Brought in by the dev ops people, the software teams. And now it's becoming again, persistent, real use clients that want to deploy a million of them. Just the way they historically have deployed a million virtual machines, now they want a million containers or 2 million. So now it's going mainstream and the feature functions that you need once you take it out of the test sort of play with stage to the real production phase, really changes the ball game on the features you need, the quality of what you get, and the types of things you need the underlying storage and the data services that go with that storage,. to do in a fully container world. >> So Sam how'd we get here? I mean, container has been around forever. You look inside a Linux, right? But then they did, as Eric said, go mainstream. But it started out the, kind of little experimental, As I said, their femoral didn't really need to persist them, but it's changed very quickly. Maybe you could talk to that evolution and how we got here. >> I mean, well, it's been a look, this is all about agility right? It's about enterprises trying to accelerate their innovation. They started off by using virtual machines to try to accelerate access to IT for developers, and developers are constantly out, running ahead. They got to go faster and they have to deliver new applications. Business lines need to figure out new ways to engage with their customers. Especially now with the past year we had it even further accelerated this need to engage with customers in new ways. So it's about being agile. Containers promise or provide a lot of the capabilities you need to be agile. What enterprises are discovering, a lot of these initiatives are starting within the business lines and they're building these applications or making these architectural decisions, building dev ops environments on containers. And what they're finding is they're not bringing the infrastructure teams along with them. And they're running into challenges that are inhibiting their ability to achieve the agility they want because their storage needs aren't keeping up. So this is a big challenge that enterprises face. They want to use containers to build a more agile environment to do things like dev ops, but they need to bring the infrastructure teams along. And that's what we're focused on now. Is how do you make that agile infrastructure to support these new container worlds? >> Got it, so Eric, you guys made an announcement to directly address these issues. Like it's kind of a fire hose of innovation. Maybe you could take us through and then we can unpack that a little bit. >> Sure, so what we did is on April 27th, we announced IBM Spectrum Fusion. This is a fully container native software defined storage technology that integrates a number of proven battle-hardened technologies that IBM has been deploying in the enterprise for many years. That includes a global scalable file system that can span edge core and cloud seamlessly with a single copy of the data. So no more data silos and no more 12 copies of the data which of course drive up CapEx and OpEx. Spectrum Fusion reduces that and makes it easier to manage. Cuts the cost from a CapEx perspective and cuts a cost for an OpEx perspective. By being fully container native, it's ready to go for the container centric world and could span all types of areas. So what we've done is create a storage foundation which is what you need at the bottom. So things like the single global namespace, single accessibility, we have local caching. So with your edge core cloud, regardless of where the data is, you think the data's right with you, even if it physically is not. So that allows people to work on it. We have file locking and other technologies to ensure that the data is always good. And then of course we'd imbued it with the HA Disaster Recovery, the backup and restore technology, which we've had for years and have now made of fully container native. So spectrum fusion basically takes several elements of IBM's existing portfolio has made them container native and brought them together into a single piece of software. And we'll provide that both as a software defined storage technology early in 2022. And our first pass will be as a hyperconverged appliance which will be available next quarter in Q3 of 2021. That of course means it'll come with compute, it'll come with storage, come with a rack even, come with networking. And because we can preload everything for the end users or for our business partners, it would also include Kubernetes, Red Gat OpenShift and Red Hat's virtualization technology all in one simple package, all ease of use and a single management gooey to manage everything, both the software side and the physical infrastructure that's part of the hyperconverged system level technologies. >> So, maybe it can help us understand the architecture and maybe the prevailing ways in which people approach container storage, what's the stack look like? And how have you guys approached it? >> Yeah, that's a great question. Really, there's three layers that we look at when we talk about container native storage. It starts with the storage foundation which is the layer that actually lays the data out onto media and does it in an efficient way and makes that data available where it's needed. So that's the core of it. And the quality of your storage services above that depend on the quality of the foundation that you start with. Then you go up to the storage services layer. This is where you bring in capabilities like HA and DR. People take this for granted, I think as they move to containers. We're talking about moving mission critical applications now into a container and hybrid cloud world. How do you actually achieve the same levels of high availability you did in the past? If you look at what large enterprises do, they run three site, for site replication of their data with hyper swap and they can ensure high availability. How do you bring that into a Kubernetes environment? Are you ready to do that? We talk about how only 20% of applications have really moved into a hybrid cloud world. The thing that's inhibiting the other 80% these types of challenges, okay? So the storage services include HA DR, data protection, data governance, data discovery. You talked about making multiple copies of data creates complexity, it also creates risk and security exposures. If you have multiple copies of data, if you needed data to be available in the cloud you're making a copy there. How do you keep track of that? How do you destroy the copy when you're done with it? How do you keep track of governance and GDPR, right? So if I have to delete data about a person how do I delete it everywhere? So there's a lot of these different challenges. These are the storage services. So we talk about a storage services layer. So layer one data foundation, layer two storage services, and then there needs to be connection into the application runtime. There has to be application awareness to do things like high availability and application consistent backup and recovery. So then you have to create the connection. And so in our case, we're focused on open shift, right? When we talk about Kubernetes how do you create the knowledge between layer two, the storage services and layer three of the application services? >> And so this is your three layer cake. And then as far as like the policies that I want to inject, you got an API out and entries in, can use whatever policy engine I want. How does that work? >> So we're creating consistent sets of APIs to bring those storage services up into the application, run time. We in IBM have things like IBM cloud satellite which bring the IBM public cloud experience to your data center and give you a hybrid cloud or into other public cloud environments giving you one hybrid cloud management experience. We'll integrate there, giving you that consistent set of storage services within an IBM cloud satellite. We're also working with Red Hat on their Advanced Cluster Manager, also known as RACM to create a multi-cluster management of your Kubernetes environment and giving that consistent experience. Again, one common set of APIs. >> So the appliance comes first? Is that a no? Okay, so is that just time to market or is there a sort of enduring demand for appliances? Some customers, you know, they want that, maybe you could explain that strategy. >> Yeah, so first let me take it back a second. Look at our existing portfolio. Our award-winning products are both software defined and system-based. So for example Spectrum Virtualize comes on our flash system. Spectrum Scale comes on our elastic storage system. And we've had this model where we provide the exact same software, both on an array or as standalone piece of software. This is unique in the storage industry. When you look at our competitors, when they've got something that's embedded in their array, their array manager, if you will, that's not what they'll try to sell you. It's software defined storage. And of course, many of them don't offer software defined storage in any way, shape or form. So we've done both. So with spectrum fusion, we'll have a hyper-converged configuration which will be available in Q3. We'll have a software defined configuration which were available at the very beginning of 2022. So you wanted to get out of this market feedback from our clients, feedback from our business partners by doing a container native HCI technology, we're way ahead. We're going to where the park is. We're throwing the ball ahead of the wide receiver. If you're a soccer fan, we're making sure that the mid guy got it to the forward ahead of time so you could kick the goal right in. That's what we're doing. Other technologies lead with virtualization, which is great but virtualization is kind of old hat, right? VMware and other virtualization layers have been around for 20 now. Container is where the world is going. And by the way, we'll support everything. We still have customers in certain worlds that are using bare metal, guess what? We work fine with that. We worked fine with virtual as we have a tight integration with both hyper V and VMware. So some customers will still do that. And containers is a new wave. So with spectrum fusion, we are riding the wave not fighting the wave and that way we could meet all the needs, right? Bare metal, virtual environments, and container environments in a way that is all based on the end users applications, workloads, and use cases. What goes, where and IBM Storage can provide all of it. So we'll give them two methods of consumption, by early next year. And we started with a hyper-converged first because, A, we felt we had a lead, truly a lead. Other people are leading with virtualization. We're leading with OpenShift and containers where the first full container-native OpenShift ground up based hyper-converged of anyone in the industry versus somebody who's done VMware or some other virtualization layer and then sort of glommed on containers and as an afterthought. We're going to where the market is moving, not to where the market has been. >> So just follow up on that. You kind of, you got the sort of Switzerland DNA. And it's not just OpenShift and Red Hat and the open source ethos. I mean, it just goes all the way back to San Volume Controller back in the day where you could virtualize anybody's storage. How is that carrying through to this announcement? >> So Spectrum Fusion is doing the same thing. Spectrum Fusion, which has many key elements brought in from our history with Spectrum Scale supports not IBM storage, for example, EMC Isilon NFS. It will support, Fusion will support Spectrum Scale, Fusion will support our elastic storage system. Fusion will support NetApp filers as well. Fusion will support IBM cloud object storage both software defined storage, or as an array technology and Amazon S3 object stores and any other object storage vendor who's compliant with S3. All of those can be part of the global namespace, scalable file system. We can bring in, for example, object data without making a duplicate copy. The normal way to do that as you make a duplicate copy. So you had a copy in the object store. You make a copy and to bring that into the file. Well, guess what, we don't have to do that. So again, cutting CapEx and OpEx and ease of management. But just as we do with our flash systems product and our Spectrum Virtualize and the SAN Volume Controller, we support over 550 storage arrays that are not ours that are our competitors. With Spectrum Fusion, we've done the same thing, fusion, scale the IBM ESS, IBM cloud object storage, Amazon S3 object store, as well as other compliance, EMC Isilon NFS, and NFS from NetApp. And by the way, we can do the discovery model as well not just integration in the system. So we've made sure that we really do protect existing investments. And we try to eliminate, particularly with discovery capability, you've got AI or analytics software connecting with the API, into the discovery technology. You don't have to traverse and try to find things because the discovery will create real time, metadata cataloging, and indexing, not just of our storage but the other storage I'd mentioned, which is the competition. So talk about making it easier to use, particularly for people who are heterogeneous in their storage environment, which is pretty much the bulk of the global fortune 1500, for sure. And so we're allowing them to use multiple vendors but derive real value with Spectrum Fusion and get all the capabilities of Spectrum Fusion and all the advantages of the enterprise data services but not just for our own product but for the other products as well that aren't ours. >> So Sam, we understand the downside of copies, but then, so you're not doing multiple copies. How do you deal with latency? What's the secret sauce here? Is it the file system? Is there other magic in here? >> Yeah, that's a great question. And I'll build a little bit off of what Eric said, but look one of the really great and unique things about Spectrum Scale is its ability to consume any storage. And we can actually allow you to bring in data sets from where they are. It could have originated in object storage we'll cash it into the file system. It can be on any block storage. It can literally be on any storage you can imagine as long as you can integrate a file system with it. And as you know most applications run on top of the file system. So it naturally fits into your application stack. Spectrum Scale uniquely is a globally parallel file system. So there's not very many of them in the world and there's none that can achieve what Spectrum Scale can do. We have customers running in the exabytes of data and the performance improves with scales. So you can actually deploy Spectrum Scale on-prem, build out an environment of it, consuming whatever storage you have. Then you can go into AWS or IBM cloud or Azure, deploy an instance of it and it will now extend your file system into that cloud. Or you can deploy it at the edge and it'll extend your file system to that edge. This gives you the exact same set of files and visibility and we'll cash in only what's needed. Normally you would have to make a copy of data into the other environment. Then you'd have to deal with that copy later, let's say you were doing a cloud bursting use case. Let's look at that as an example, to make this real. You're running an application on-prem. You want to spin up more compute in the cloud for your AI. The data normally you'd have to make a copy of the data. You'd run your AI. They have to figure out what to do with that data. Do you copy some of the fact? Do we sync them? Do you delete it? What do you do? With Spectrum Scale just automatically cash in whatever you need. It'll run there and you get assigned to spin it down. Your copy is still on-prem. You know, no data is lost. We can actually deal with all of those scenarios for you. And then if you look at what's happening at the edge, a lot of say video surveillance, data pouring in. Looking at the manufacturing {for} looking for defects. You can run a AI right at the edge, make it available in the cloud, make that data available in your data center. Again, one file system going across all. And that's something unique in our data foundation built on Spectrum Scale. >> So there's some metadata magic in there as well, and that intelligence based on location. And okay, so you're smart enough to know where the data lives. What's the sweet spot for this Eric? Are there any particular use cases or industries that we should be focused on or is it through? >> Sure, so first let's talk about the industries. We see certain industries going more container quicker than other industries. So first is financial services. We see it happening there. Manufacturing, Sam already talked about AI based manufacturing platforms. We actually have a couple clients right now. We're doing autonomous driving software with us on containers right now, even before Spectrum Fusion with Spectrum Scale. We see public of course, healthcare and in healthcare don't just think delivery at IBM. That includes the research guys. So the genomic companies, the biotech companies, the drug companies are all included in that. And then of course, retail, both on-prem and off-prem. So those are sort of the industries. Then we see from an application workload, basically AI analytics and big data applications or workloads are the key things that Spectrum Fusion helps you because of its file system. It's high performance. And those applications are tending to spread across core ,edge and cloud. So those applications are spreading out. They're becoming broader than just running in the data center. And by the way they want to run it just into the data center, that's fine. Or perfect example, we had giant global auto manufacturer. They've got factories all over. And if you think there isn't compute resources in every factory, there is because those factories I just saw an article, actually, those factories cost about a billion dollars to build them, a billion. So they've got their own IT, now it's connected to their core data center as well. So that's a perfect example that enterprise edge where spectrum fusion would be an ideal solution whether they did it as software defined only, or of course when you got a billion dollar factory, just to make it let alone produce the autos or whatever you're producing. Silicon, for example, those fabs, all cost a billion. That's where the enterprise edge fits in very well with Spectrum Fusion. >> So are those industries, what's driving the adoption of containers? Is it just, they just want to modernize? Is it because they're doing some of those workloads that you mentioned or is there's edge? Like you mentioned manufacturing, I could see that potentially being an edge is the driver. >> Well, it's a little bit of all of those Dave. For example, virtualization came out and virtualization offered advantages over bare metal, okay? Now containerization has come out and containerization is offering advantage over virtualization. The good thing at IBM is we know we can support all three. And we know again, in the global fortune 2000, 1500 they're probably going to run all three based on the application workload or use case. And our storage is really good at bare metal. Very good at virtualization environments. And now with Spectrum Fusion are container native outstanding for container based environments. So we see these big companies will probably have all three and IBM storage is one of the few vendors if not the only vendor that could adroitly support all three of those various workload types. So that's why we see this as a huge advantage. And again, the market is going to containers. We are, I'm a native California. You don't fight the wave, you ride the wave. and the wave is containers and we're riding that wave. >> If you don't ride the wave you become driftwood as Pat Gelsinger would say. >> And that is true, another native California. I'm a whole boss. >> So okay, so, I wonder Sam I sort of hinted upfront in my little narrative there but the way we see this, as you've got on-prem hybrid, you got public clouds across cloud moving to the edge. Open shift is I said is the linchpin to enabling some of those. And what we see is this layer that abstracts the complexity, hides the underlying complexity of the infrastructure that becomes kind of an implementation detail. Eric talked about skating to the park or whatever sports analogy you want to use. Is that where the park is headed? >> Yeah, I mean, look, the bottom line is you have to remove the complexity for the developers. Again, the name of the game here is all about agility. You asked why these industries are implementing containers? It's about accelerating their innovation and their services for their customers. It's about leveraging AI to gain better insights about their customers and delivering what they want and proving their experience. So if it's all about agility developers don't want to wait around for infrastructure. You need to automate it as much as possible. So it's about building infrastructure that's automated, which requires consistent API APIs. And it requires abstracting out the complexity of things like HA and DR. You don't want every application owner to have to figure out how to implement that. You want to make those storage services available and easy for a developer to implement and integrate into what they're doing. You want to ensure security across everything you do as you bring more and more of your data of your information about your customers into these container worlds. You've got to have security rock solid. You can't leave any exposures there and you can't afford downtime. There's increasing threats from things like ransomware. You don't see it in the news every day but it happens every single day. So how do you make sure you can recover when an event happens to you? So yes, you need to build a abstracted layer of storage services and you need to make it simply available to the developers in these dev ops environments. And that's what we're doing with spectrum fusion. We're taking, I think, extremely unique and one of a kind storage foundation with Spectrum Scale that gives you single namespace globally. And we're building onto it an incredible set of storage services, making extremely simple to deploy enterprise class container applications. >> So what's the bottom line business impact. I mean, how does this change? I mean, Sam, you I think articulated very well through all about serving the developers versus you know, storage, admin provisioning, a LUN. So how does this change my organization, my business? What's the impact there? >> I've mentioned one other point that we talk about an IBM a lot, which is the AI ladder. And it's about how do you take all of this information you have and be able to take it to build new insights, to give your company and advantage. An incumbent in an industry shouldn't be able to be disrupted if they're able to leverage all the data they have about the industry and their customers. But in order to do that, you have to be able to get to a single source of data and be able to build it into the fabric of your business operations. So that all decisions you're making in your company, all services you deliver to your customers, are built on that data foundation and information and the only way to do that and infuse it into your culture is to make this stuff real time. And the only way to do that is to build out a containerized application environment that has access to real-time data. The ultimate outcome, sorry, I know you asked for business results is that you will, in real time understand your clients, understand your industry and deliver the best possible services. And the absolute, business outcome is you will continue to gain market share and your environment and grow revenue. I mean, that's the outcome every business wants. >> Yeah, it's all about speed. Everybody's kind of, everybody's last year was forced into digital transformation. It was sort of rushed into and compressed and now they get some time to do it right. And so modernizing apps, containers, dev ops developer led sort of initiatives are really key to modernization. All right, Eric, we've got, we're out of time but give us the bottom summary. We didn't talk, actually, we had to talk about the 3,200. Maybe you could give us a little insight on that before we close. >> Sure, so in addition to what we're doing with Fusion we also introduced a new elastic storage system, 3,200 and it's all flash. It gets 80 gigs, a second sustained at the node level and we can cluster them infinitely. So for example, I've got 10 of them. I'm delivering 800 gigabytes, a second sustained. And of course, AI, big data analytic workloads are extremely, extremely susceptible to bandwidth and or data transfer rate. That's what they need to deliver their application base properly. It comes with Spectrum Scale built in so that comes with it. So you get the advantage of Spectrum Scale. We talked a lot about Spectrum Scale because it is if you will, one of the three fathers of spectrum fusion. So it's ideal with it's highly parallel file system. It's used all over in high performance computing and super computing, in drug research, in health care in finance, probably about 80% of the world's largest banks in the world use Spectrum Scale already for AI, big data analytics. So the new 3,200 is an all flash version twice as fast as the older version and all the benefit of Spectrum Scale including the ability of seamlessly integrating into existing Spectrum Scale or ESS deployments. And when Fusion comes out, you'll be able to have Fusion. And you could also add 3,200 to it if you want to do that because of the capability of our global namespace and our single file system across edge, core and cloud. So that's the 3,200 in a nutshell, Dave. >> All right, give us a bottom line, Eric. And we got to go, what's the bumper sticker. >> Yeah, bumper sticker is, you got to ride the wave of containers and IBM storage is company that can take you there so that you win the big surfing context and get the big prize. >> Eric and Sam, thanks so much, guys. It's great to see you and miss you guys. Hopefully we'll get together soon. So get your jabs and we'll have a beer. >> All right. >> All right, thanks, Dave. >> Nice talking to you. >> All right, thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for "theCUBE." We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by >>IBM. Welcome back to IBM Think 2021. This is the cubes ongoing coverage where we go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise of course, virtually in this case now we're going to talk about ecosystems, partnerships in the flywheel, they deliver in the technology business and with me or Jason kelly, general manager, global strategic partnerships, IBM global business services and Mani Das Gupta, who is the vice president of marketing for IBM Global Business services folks. It's great to see you again in which we're face to face. But this will have to do >>good to see you Dave and uh same, I wish we were face to face but uh we'll we'll go with this >>soon. We're being patient, Jason. Let's start with you. You have a partner strategy. I wonder if you could sort of summarize that and tell us more about it. >>So it's interesting that we start with the strategy because you said we have a partner strategy dave and I'd say that the market has dictated back to us a partner strategy something that we it's not new and we didn't start it yesterday. It's something that we continue to evolve and build even stronger. This thought of a partner strategy is it nothing is better than the thought of a partner ship. And people say oh well you know you got to work together as one team and as a partner And it sounds almost as a 1-1 type relationship. Our strategies is much different than that. David our execution is even better and that that execution is focused on now. The requirement that the market our clients are showing to us and our strategic partners that one player can't deliver all their needs, they can't Design solution and deliver that from one place. It does take an ecosystem to the word that you called out. This thought of an ecosystem and our strategy and execution is focused on that. And the reason why I say it evolves is because the market will continue to evolve and this thought of being able to look at a client's let's call it a a workflow, let's call it a value chain from one end to the other, wherever they start their process to wherever it ultimately hits that end user. It's going to take many players to cover that. And then we, as IBM want to make sure that we are the general contractor of that capability with the ability to convene the right strategic partners, bring out the best value for that outcome, not just technology for technology's sake, but the outcome that the incline is looking for so that we bring value to our strategic partners and that in client. >>I think about when you talk about the value chain, you know, I'm imagining, you know, the business books years ago you see the conceptual value chain, you can certainly understand that you can put processes together to connect them and now you've got technology, I think of a P. I. S. It's it's really supports that everything gets accelerated and and uh money. I wonder if you could address some of the the go to market how this notion of of ecosystem which is so important, is impacting the way in which you go to market. >>Absolutely. So modern business, you know, demands a new approach to working the ecosystem. Thought that Jason was just alluding to, it's a mutual benefit of all these companies working together in the market, it's a mutual halo of the brands, so as responsible for the championship of the IBM and the global business services brand. I am very, very interested in this mutual working together. It should be a win win win, as we say in the market, it should be a win for our clients, first and foremost, it should be a win for our partners and it should be a win for IBM and we are working together right now on an approach to bring this, go to market strategy to life. >>So I wonder if we could maybe talk about how this actually works and and pull in some examples, uh you must have some favorites that that we can touch on. Uh is that, is that fair? Can we, can we name some names, >>sure names, always working debut, right. And it's always in context of reality that we can talk about, as I said, this execution and not just a strategy. And I'll start with probably what's right in the front of many people's minds as we're doing this virtually because of what because of an unfortunate pandemic, um, this disastrous loss of life and things that have taken us down a path. We go well, how do we, how do we address that? Well, any time there's a tough task, IBM raises its hand first. You know, whether it was putting a person on the moon and bringing them home safely or standing up a system behind the current Social Security Administration, you know, during the Depression, you pick it well here we are now. And why not start with that as an example? Because I think it calls out just what we mentioned here first day, this thought of a, of an ecosystem because the first challenge, how do we create uh and address the biggest data puzzle of our lives, which is how do we get this vaccine created in record time, which it was the fastest before that was four years. This was a matter of months. Visor created the first one out and then had to get it out to distribution. Behind. That is a wonderful partner of R. S. A. P. Trying to work with that. So us working with S. A. P. Along with Pfizer in order to figure out how to get that value chain. And some would say supply chain, but I'll address that in a second. But there's many players there. And so we were in the middle of that with fires are committed to saying, how do we do that with S. A. P. So now you see players working together as one ecosystem. But then think about the ecosystem that that's happening where you have a federal government agency, a state, a local, you have healthcare, life science industry, you have consumer industry. Oh wait a second day. This is getting very complicated, Right? Well, this is the thought of convening an ecosystem and this is what I'm telling you is our execution and it has worked well. And so it's it's it's happening now. We still it's we see it's still developing and being, being, you know, very productive in real time. But then I said there was another example and that's with me, you mani whomever you pick the consumer. Ultimately we are that outcome of of the value chain. That's why I said, I don't want to just call it a supply chain because at the end is a someone consuming and in this case we need a shot. And so we partnered with Salesforce, IBM and Salesforce saying, wait a minute, that's not a small task. It's not just get the content there and put it in someone's arm instead they're scheduling that must be done. There's follow up an entire case management like system sells force is a master at this, so work dot com team with IBM, we sit now let's get that part done for the right type of UI UX capability that the user experience, user interaction interface and then also in bringing another player in the ecosystem, one of ours Watson health along with our block changing, we brought together something called a Digital Health pass. So I've just talked about two ecosystems work multiple ecosystems working together. So you think of an ecosystem of ecosystems. I called out Blockchain technology and obviously supply chain but there's also a I I O T. So you start to see where look this is truly an orchestration effort. It has to happen with very well designed capability and so of course we master and design and tying that that entire ecosystem together and convening it so that we get to the right outcome you me money all getting into shot being healthy. That's a real time example of us working with an ecosystem and teeming with key strategic partners, >>you know, money, I mean Jason you're right. I mean pandemics been horrible, I have to say. I'm really thankful it didn't happen 20 years ago because it would have been like okay here's some big pcs and a modem and go ahead and figure it out. So I mean the tech industry has saved business. I mean with not only we mentioned ai automation data, uh even things basic things like security at the end point. I mean so many things and you're right, I mean IBM in particular, other large companies you mentioned ASAP you have taken the lead and it's really I don't money, I don't think the tech industry gets enough credit, but I wonder if there's some of your favorite, you know, partnerships that you can talk about. >>Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna build on what you just said. Dave IBM is in this unique position amongst this ecosystem. Not only the fact that we have the world leading most innovative technologies to bring to bear, but we also have the consulting capabilities that go with it now to make any of these technologies work towards the solution that Jason was referring to in this digital health pass, it could be any other solution you would need to connect these disparate systems, sometimes make them work towards a common outcome to provide value to the client. So I think our role as IBM within this ecosystem is pretty unique in that we are able to bring both of these capabilities to bear. In terms of you know, you asked about favorite there are this is really a coop petition market where everybody has products, everybody has service is the most important thing is how how are we bringing them all together to serve the need or the need of the hour in this case, I would say one important thing in this. As you observe how these stories are panning out in an ecosystem in in part in a partnership, it is about the value that we provide to our clients together. So it's almost like a cell with model from from a go to market perspective, there is also a question of our products and services being delivered through our partners. Right? So think about the span and scope of what we do here. And so that's the sell through. And then of course we have our products running within our partner companies and our partner products, for example. Salesforce running within IBM. So this is a very interesting and a new way of doing business. I would say it's almost like the modern way of doing business with modernity. >>Well. And you mentioned cooperation. I mean you're you're part of IBM that will work with anybody because your customer first, whether it's a W. S. Microsoft oracle is a is a is a really tough competitor. But your customers are using oracle and they're using IBM. So I mean as a those are some good examples. I think of your point about cooper Titian. >>Absolutely. If you pick on any other client, I'll mention in this case. Delta, Delta was working with us on moving, being more agile. Now this pandemic has impacted the airline sector particularly hard, right With travel stopping and anything. So they are trying to get to a model which will help them scale up, scale down, be more agile will be more secure, be closer to their customers, try and understand how they can provide value to their customers and customers better. So we are working with Delta on moving them to cloud on the journey to cloud. Now that public cloud could be anything. The beauty of this model and a hybrid cloud approach is that you are able to put them on red hat open shift, you're able to do and package the services into a microservices kind of a model. You want to make sure all the applications are running on a portable, almost platform. Agnostic kind of a model. This is the beauty of this ecosystem that we are discussing is the ability to do what's right for the end customer at the end of the day, >>how about some of the like sass players, like some of the more prominent ones and we watched the ascendancy of service now and and, and work day, you mentioned Salesforce. How do you work with those guys? Obviously there's an Ai opportunity, but maybe you could add some, you know, color there. >>So I like the fact that you call out the different hyper scholars for example, uh whether it's a W. S, whether it's Microsoft, knowing that they have their own cloud instances, for example. And when you, when you mentioned, he had this happened a long time ago, you know, you start talking about the heft of the technology, I started thinking of all the truckloads of servers or whatever they have to pull up. We don't need that now because it can happen in the cloud and you don't have to pick one cloud or the other. And so when people say hybrid cloud, that's what comes out, you start to think of what I I call, you know, a hybrid of hybrids because I told you before, you know, these roles are changing. People aren't just buyers or suppliers, they're both. And then you start to say what we're different people supplying well in that ecosystem, we know there's not gonna be one player, there's gonna be multiple. So we partner by doing just what monty called out is this thought of integrating in hybrid environments on hybrid platforms with hybrid clouds, Multi clouds, maybe I want something on my premises, something somewhere else. So in giving that capability that flexibility we empower and this is what's doing that cooperation, we empower our partners are strategic partners, we want them to be better with us. And this is this thought of being able to actually bring more together and move faster which is almost counterintuitive. You're like wait a minute you're adding more players but you're moving faster. Exactly because we have the capability to integrate those those technologies and get that outcome that monty mentioned, >>I would add to this one. Jason you mentioned something very very interesting. I think if you want to go just fast you go alone but if you want to go further, you go together. And that is the core of our point of view in this case is that we want to go further and we want to create value that is long lasting. >>What about like so I get the technology players and there may be things that you do that others don't or vice versa. So the gap fillers etcetera. But what about how to maybe customers that they get involved? Perhaps government agencies, may they be they be customer or an N. G. O. As another example, Are they part of this value chain? Part of this ecosystem? >>Absolutely. I'll give you I'll stick with the same example when I mentioned a digital health past that Digital Health Pass is something that we have as IBM and it's a credential Think of it as a health credential not a vaccine passport because it could be used for a test for a negative test on Covid, it could be used for antibiotics. So if you have this credential, it's something that we, as IBM created years back and we were using it for learning. When you think of getting people uh certifications versus a four year diploma, how do we get people into the workforce? That was what was original. That was a jenny Rometty thought, let's focus on new collar workers. So we had this asset that we'd already created and then it's wait, there's a place for it to work with, with health, with validation verification on someone's option, it's optional. They choose it. Hey, I want to do it this way. Well, the state of new york said that they wanted to do it that way and they said, listen, we are going to have a digital health pass for all of our, all of our new york citizens and we want to make sure that it's equitable, it could be printed or on a screen and we want it to be designed in this way and we wanted to work on this platform and we want to be able to, to work with the strategic Partners, a Salesforce and ASAP and work. I mean, I can just keep and we said okay let's do this. And this is the start of collaboration and doing it by design. So we haven't lost that day but this only brings it to the forefront just as you said, yes, that is what we want. We want to make sure that in this ecosystem we have a way to ensure that we are bringing together convening not just point products or different service providers but taking them together and getting the best outcome so that that end user can have it configured in the way that they want it >>guys, we got to leave it there but it's clear you're helping your customers and your partners on this this digital transformation journey that we already we all talk about. You get this massive portfolio of capabilities, deep, deep expertise, I love the hybrid cloud and AI Focus, Jason and money really appreciate you coming back in the cubes. Great to see you both. >>Thank you so much. Dave Fantastic. All >>Right. And thank you for watching everybody's day Vigilante for the Cuban. Our continuous coverage of IBM, think 2021, the virtual edition. Keep it right there. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. >>Mhm.

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john ferrier host of the cube. Got a great story here. Navigating Covid 19 with Watson advertising and weather channel conversations. Sherry back steen. Who's the gM of Watson advertising in the weather company. Sherry, thanks for coming on the cube. My favorite part of IBM think is to talk about the tech and also the weather company innovations. Thanks for coming on. >>Hi, happy to be here, john >>So COVID-19 obviously some impact for people that working at home. Um normally you guys have been doing a lot of innovation around weather weather data um certainly huge part of it. Right. And so lots been changing with AI and the weather company and IBM so let's first start before we jump in, just a little background about what your team has created because a lot of fascinating things here. Go ahead. >>Yeah. So when the pandemic started, you know we looked at the data that we were seeing and of course in weather accuracy and accurate data is really important trusted data. And so we created a COVID-19 hub on our weather channel app and on weather.com. And essentially what it was is an aggregated area where consumers could get the most up to date information on covid cases, deaths in their area, trends see heat maps uh information from the C. D. C. And what was unique about it. It was to a local level. Right so state level information is helpful but we know that consumers uh me included. I need information around what's happening around me. And so we were able to bring this down to a county level which we thought was really helpful for consumers >>share as watching sports on tv. And recently, a few months ago, the Masters was on and you saw people getting back into real life, It's almost like a weather forecast. Now. You want to know what's going on in the pandemic. People are sharing that. They're getting the vaccine. Um, really interesting. And so I want to understand how this all came together with you guys. Is was it something that has a weather data, a bunch of geeks saying, hey, we should do this for companies, but take us to the thought process with their team. Was it like you saw this as value? How did you get to this? Because this is an interesting user benefit. I want to know the weather, I want to know if it's safe. These are kind of a psychology of a user expectation. How did you guys connect the dots here for this project? >>Well, we certainly do have a very passionate team of people, um some weather geeks included, um and you're absolutely right watching the Masters a few months ago was amazing to see, you know, some sense of normality happening here. But you know, we looked at, you know, IBM, the weather company, like, how do we help during this pandemic? And when we thought about it, we looked at there's an amazing gap of information. And as the weather channel, you know, what we do is bring together data, give people insights and help them make decisions with that. And so it was really part of our mission. It's always been that way to give information to keep people safe. And so all we did is took a different data set and provided the same thing. And so in this case, the covid data set, which we actually had to, you know, aggregate from different sources whether it was the C. D. C. The World Health Organization uh State governments or county governments to provide this to consumers. But it was really really natural for us because we know what consumers want. You know we all want information around where we live, right? And then we want to see like where our friends live, where our relatives live to make sure that they're okay. And then that enables people to make the decisions that are right for their family. And so it was really really natural for us to do that. And then of course we have the technology to be able to scale to hundreds of millions of people. Which is really important. >>It's not obvious until you actually think about that. It's so obvious. Congratulations. What a great innovation. What were the biggest challenges you guys had to face and how did you overcome it? Because I'm curious. I see you've got a lot of, lot of large scale data dealing with diversity of data with weather. What was the challenges with Covid? And how did you overcome it? >>So again, without a doubt it was the data because you're looking at one, we wanted that county level data. So you're looking at multiple sources. So how do we aggregate this data? So first finding that trusted source that that we could use. But then how do you pull it in in an automated way? And the challenge was it with the State Department, the county departments that data came in all kinds of formats. Some counties used maps, some use charts, some use pds to get that information. So we had to pull all this unstructured data, uh, and then that data was updated at different times. So some counties did it twice a day, some did it once day, different time zones. So that really made it challenging. And so then, you know, so what we did is this is where the power of A I really helps because a I can take all of that data, bring in and organize it and then we could put it back out to the consumer in a very digestible way. And so we were able to do that. We built an automated pipeline around that so we can make sure that it was updated. It was fresh and timely, which was really important. But without a doubt looking at that structured data and unstructured data and really helping it to make sense to the consumer was the biggest challenge. And what's interesting about it. Normally it would take us months to do something like that. I challenged the team to say we don't have months, we have days. They turned that around in eight days, which was just an amazing herculean feat. But that's really just the power of, as you said, passionate people coming together to do something so meaningful. >>I love the COVID-19 success stories when people rally around their passion and also their expertise. What was the technology to the team used? Because the theme here at IBM think is transformation innovation, scale. How did you move so fast to make that happen? >>So we move fast by our Ai capabilities and then using IBM cloud and so really there's four key components are like four teams that worked on it. So first there was the weather company team um and because we are a consumer division of IBM, we know what consumers want. So we understand the user experience and the design, but we also know how to build an A. P. I. That can scale because you're talking about being able to scale not only in a weather platform. So in the midst of covid weather still happened, so we still had severe weather record breaking hurricane season. And so those A. P. S. Have to scale to that volume. Then the second team was the AI team. So that used the Watson AI team mixed with the weather Ai team to again bring in that data to organize that data. Um And we used Watson NLP so natural natural language processing in order to create that automated pipeline. Then we had the corralled infrastructure so that platform team that built that architecture and that data repository on IBM cloud. And then the last team was our data privacy office. So making sure that that data was trusted that we have permission to use it uh and just know really that data governance. So it's all of that technology and all of those teams coming together to build this hub for consumers. Um And it worked I mean we would have about four million consumers looking at that hub every single day. Um and even like a year later we still have a couple million people that access that information. So it's really kind of become more like the weather checking the weather's come that daily habit. >>That's awesome. And I gotta I gotta imagine that these discoveries and innovations that was part of this transformation at scale have helped other ways outside the pandemic and you share how this is connected to um other benefits outside the pandemic. >>Yeah so absolutely um you know ai for businesses part of IBM strategy and so really helping organizations to help predict um you know to help take workloads and automate them. So they're high valued employees can work on you know other work. And also you know to bring that personalization to customers. You know, it's really a i when I look at it for my own part of a IBM with the weather company, three things where I'm using this technology. So the first one is around advertising. So the advertising industry is at a really um you know, pivotal part right now, a lot of turmoil and challenges because of privacy legislation because big tech companies are um you know, getting rid of tracking pixels that we normally use to drive the business. So we've created a suite of AI solutions for publishers for you know, different players within the ad tech space, um which is really important because it protects the open web, so like getting covid information or weather information, all of that is free information to the public. We just ask that you underwrite it by seeing advertising so we can keep it free. So those products protect the open red. So really, really important. Then on the consumer side of my business, within the weather channel, we actually used Watson Ai um to connect health with weather. So we know that there's that connection, some health um you know, issues that people have can be impacted by weather, like allergies and flew. So we've actually used Watson Ai to build a um Risk of flu that goes 15 days out. So we can tell people in your local area this one actually goes down to the zip code level, um the risk of flu in your area or the risk of allergies. So help to manage your symptoms, take your prescription. So, um that's a really interesting way. We're using AI and of course weather dot com and our apps are on IBM cloud, so we have this strong infrastructure to support that. And then lastly, you know, our weather forecasting has always been rooted in a i you take 100 different weather models, you apply ai to that to get the best and most accurate forecasts that you deliver. Um and so we are using these technologies every day to, you know, move our business forward and to provide, you know, weather services for people. >>I just love the automation and as users have smartphones and more instrumentation on their bodies, whether it's wearables, people will plan their day around the weather, and retail shops will have a benefit knowing what the stock and or not have on hand and how to adjust that. This, the classic edge computing paradigm, fascinating impact. You wouldn't think about that, but that's a pretty big deal. People are planning >>around >>the weather data and making that available is critical. >>Oh, absolutely. You know, every business needs a weather strategy because whether it impacts your supply chain, um agriculture, should I be watering today or not even around, you know, um, if you think about energy and power lines, you know, the vegetation growth over power lines can bring power lines down and it's a disruption, you know, to customers and power. So there's just when you start thinking about it, you're like, wow, whether really impacts every business, um, not to say just consumers in general and their daily lives. >>And uh, and there's a lot of cloud scale to that can help companies whether it's um be part of a better planet or smarter planet as it's been called, and help with with global warming. I mean, you think about this is all kind of been contextually relevant now more than ever. Super exciting. Um Great stuff. I want to get your take on outside of um the IBM response to the pandemic more broadly outside of the weather. What are you guys doing um to help? Are you guys doing anything else with industry? How could you talk a little bit more about IBM s response more broadly to the pandemic? >>Yeah so IBM has been you know working with government academia, industry is really from the beginning uh in several different ways. Um you know the first one of the first things we did is it opened up our intellectual property. So R. I. P. And our technology our supercomputing To help researchers really try to understand COVID-19 some of the treatments and possible cures so that's been really beneficial as it relates to that. Um Some other things though, that we're doing as well is we created a chat bots that companies and clients could use and this chat but could either be used to help train teachers because they have to work remotely or help other workers as well. Um and also the chatbots was helping as companies started to re enter back to the workforce and getting back to the office. So the chatbots been really helpful there. Um and then, you know, one of the things that we've been doing on the advertising side is we actually have helped the ad council with their vaccine campaign. Um It's up to you is the name of the campaign and we delivered a ad unit that can dynamically assemble a creative in real time to make sure that the right message was getting out the right time to the right person. So it's really helped to maximize that campaign to reach people um and encourage them if it's the right thing for them, you know where the vaccines are available. Um and that you know, they could take those. So a lot of great work that's going on within IBM. Um and actually the most recent thing just actually in the past month is we release the Digital Health Pass in cooperation with the state of new york. Um and this is a fantastic tool because it is a way for individuals to keep their private information around their vaccines or you know, some of the Covid test they've been having on a mobile device that's secure and we think that this is going to be really important as cities start to reopen um to have that information easily accessible. >>Uh sure, great insight, um great innovation navigating Covid 19 a lot of innovation transformation at IBM and obviously Watson and the weather company using AI and also, you know, when we come out of Covid post, post Covid as real life comes back, we're still going to be impacted. We're gonna have new innovations, new expectations, tracking, understanding what's going on, not just the weather. So thanks >>for absolutely great >>work. Um, awesome. Thank you. >>Great. Thanks john good to see you. >>Okay. This is the cubes coverage of IBM. Think I'm john for a host of the cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Everyone welcome to the cubes Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 virtual were virtual this year We are the Cube Virtual I'm your host John for a joint day Volonte for keynote analysis Andy Jassy just delivered his live keynote. This is our live keynote analysis. Dave. Great to see you, Andy Jassy again. You know their eight year covering reinvent their ninth year. We're virtual. We're not in person. We're doing it. >>Great to see you, John. Even though we're 3000 miles apart, we both have the covert here. Do going Happy birthday, my friend. >>Thank you. Congratulations. Five years ago I was 50 and they had the cake on stage and on the floor. There's no floor, this year's virtual and I think one of the things that came out of Andy Jessie's keynote, obviously, you know, I met with him earlier. Telegraph some of these these moves was one thing that surprised me. He came right out of the gate. He acknowledged that social change, the cultural shift. Um, that was interesting but he went in and did his normal end to end. Slew of announcements, big themes around pivoting. And he brought kind of this business school kind of leadership vibe to the table early talking about what people are experiencing companies like ourselves and others around the change and cultural change around companies and leadership. It takes for the cloud. And this was a big theme of reinvent, literally like, Hey, don't hold on to the old And I kept thinking to myself, David, you and I both are Historians of the tech industry remind me of when I was young, breaking into the business, the mainframe guys and gals, they were hugging onto those mainframes as long as they could, and I looked at it like That's not gonna be around much longer. And they kept No, it's gonna be around. This is this is the state of the art, and then the extinction. Instantly this feels like cloud moment, where it's like it's the wake up call. Hey, everyone doing it the old way. You're done. This is it. But you know, this is a big theme. >>Yes. So, I mean, how do you curate 2.5 3 hours of Andy Jassy. So I tried to break it down at the three things in addition to what you just mentioned about him acknowledging the social unrest and and the inequalities, particularly with black people. Uh, but so I had market leadership. And there's some nuance there that if we have time, I'd love to talk about, uh, the feature innovation. I mean, that was the bulk of his presentation, and I was very pleased. I wrote a piece this weekend. As you know, talk about Cloud 2030 and my main focus was the last 10 years about I t transformation the next 10 years. They're gonna be about organizational and business and industry transformation. I saw a lot of that in jazz ces keynote. So you know, where do you wanna go? We've only got a few minutes here, John, >>but let's break. Let's break down the high level theme before we get into the announcement. The thematic part was, it's about reinventing 2020. The digital transformation is being forced upon us. Either you're in the cloud or you're not in the cloud. Either way, you got to get to the cloud for to survive in this post covert error. Um, you heard a lot about redefining compute new chips, custom chips. They announced the deal with Intel, but then he's like we're better and faster on our custom side. That was kind of a key thing, this high idea of computing, I think that comes into play with edge and hybrid. The other thing that was notable was Jessie's almost announcement of redefining hybrid. There's no product announcement, but he was essentially announcing. Hybrid is changed, and he was leaning forward with his definition of redefining what hybrid cloud is. And I think that to me was the biggest, um, signal. And then finally, what got my attention was the absolute overt call out of Microsoft and Oracle, and, you know, suddenly, behind the scenes on the database shift we've been saying for multiple times. Multiple databases in the cloud he laid that out, said there will be no one thing to rule anything. No databases. And he called out Microsoft would look at Microsoft. Some people like cloud wars. Bob Evans, our good friend, claims that Microsoft been number one in the cloud for like like year, and it's just not true right. That's just not number one. He used his revenue a za benchmark. And if you look at Microsoft's revenue, bulk of it is from propped up from Windows Server and Sequel Server. They have Get up in there that's new. And then a bunch of professional services and some eyes and passed. If you look at true cloud revenue, there's not much there, Dave. They're definitely not number one. I think Jassy kind of throws a dagger in there with saying, Hey, if you're paying for licenses mawr on Amazon versus Azure that's old school shenanigans or sales tactics. And he called that out. That, to me, was pretty aggressive. And then So I finally just cove in management stuff. Democratizing machine learning. >>Let me pick up on a couple things. There actually were a number of hybrid announcements. Um, E C s anywhere E k s anywhere. So kubernetes anywhere containers anywhere smaller outposts, new local zones, announced 12 new cities, including Boston, and then Jesse rattle them off and made a sort of a joke to himself that you made that I remembered all 12 because the guy uses no notes. He's just amazing. He's up there for three hours, no notes and then new wavelength zones for for the five g edge. So actually a lot of hybrid announcements, basically, to your point redefining hybrid. Basically, bringing the cloud to the edge of which he kind of redefined the data center is just sort of another edge location. >>Well, I mean, my point was Is that my point is that he Actually, Reid said it needs to be redefined. Any kind of paused there and then went into the announcements. And, you know, I think you know, it's funny how you called out Microsoft. I was just saying which I think was really pivotal. We're gonna dig into that Babel Babel Fish Open source thing, which could be complete competitive strategy, move against Microsoft. But in a way, Dave Jassy is pulling and Amazon's pulling the same move Microsoft did decades ago. Remember, embrace and extend right Bill Gates's philosophy. This is kind of what they're doing. They have embraced hybrid. They have embraced the data center. They're extending it out. You're seeing outpost, You see, five g, You're seeing these I o t edge points. They're putting Amazon everywhere. That was my take away. They call it Amazon anywhere. I think it's everywhere. They want cloud operations everywhere. That's the theme that I see kind of bubbling out there saying, Hey, we're just gonna keep keep doing this. >>Well, what I like about it is and I've said this for a long time now that the edge is gonna be one by developers. And so they essentially taking AWS and the data center is an AP, and they're bringing that data center is an A P I virtually everywhere. As you're saying, I wanna go back to something you said about leadership and Microsoft and the numbers because I've done a lot of homework on this Aziz, you know, And so Jassy made the point. He makes this point a lot that it's not about the the actual growth rate. Yeah, the other guys, they're growing faster. But there were growing from a much larger base and I want to share with you a nuance because he said he talked about how AWS grew incrementally 10 billion and only took him 12 months. I have quarterly forecast and I've published these on Wiki Bond, a silicon angle. And if you look at the quarterly numbers and now this is an estimate, John. But for Q four, I've got Amazon growing at 25%. That's a year on year as you're growing to 46% and Google growing at 50% 58%. So Google and and Azure much, much higher growth rates that than than Amazon. But what happens when you look at the absolute numbers? From Q three to Q four, Amazon goes from 11.6 billion to 12.4 billion. Microsoft actually stays flat at around 6.76 point eight billion. Google actually drops sequentially. Now I'm talking about sequentially, even though they have 58% growth. So the point of the Jazz is making is right on. He is the only company growing at half the growth rate year on year, but it's sequential. Revenues are the only of the Big Three that are growing, so that's the law of large numbers. You grow more slowly, but you throw off more revenue. Who would you rather be? >>I think I mean, it's clearly that Microsoft's not number one. Amazon's number one cloud certainly infrastructure as a service and pass major themes in the now so we won't go through. We're digging into the analyst Sessions would come at two o'clock in three o'clock later, but they're innovating on those two. They want they one that I would call this member. Jasio says, Oh, we're in the early innings Inning one is I as and pass. Amazon wins it all. They ran the table, No doubt. Now inning to in the game is global. I t. That was a really big part of the announcement. People might have missed that. If you if you're blown away by all the technical and complexity of GP three volumes for EBS and Aurora Surveillance V two or sage maker Feature store and Data Wrangler Elastic. All that all that complex stuff the one take away is they're going to continue to innovate. And I, as in past and the new mountain that they're gonna Klima's global I t spin. That's on premises. Cloud is eating the world and a W s is hungry for on premises and the edge. You're going to see massive surge for those territories. That's where the big spend is gonna be. And that's why you're seeing a big focus on containers and kubernetes and this kind of connective tissue between the data machine layer, modern app layer and full custom. I as on the on the bottom stack. So they're kind of just marching along to the cadence of, uh, Andy Jassy view here, Dave, that, you know, they're gonna listen to customers and keep sucking it in Obama's well and pushing it out to the edge. And and we've set it on the Cube many years. The data center is just a big edge. And that's what Jassy is basically saying here in the keynote. >>Well, and when when Andy Jassy gets pushed on Well, yes, you listen to customers. What about your partners? You know, he'll give examples of partners that are doing very well. And of course we have many. But as we've often said in the Cube, John, if you're a partner in the ecosystem, you gotta move fast. There were three interesting feature announcements that I thought were very closely related to other things that we've seen before. The high performance elastic block storage. I forget the exact name of it, but SAN in a cloud the first ever SAN in the cloud it reminds me of something that pure storage did last year and accelerate so very, very kind of similar. And then the aws glue elastic views. It was sort of like snowflake's data cloud. Now, of course, AWS has many, many more databases that they're connecting, You know, it, uh, stuff like as one. But the way AWS does it is they're copying and moving data and doing change data management. So what snowflake has is what I would consider a true global mesh. And then the third one was quicksight que That reminded me of what thought spots doing with search and analytics and AI. So again, if you're an ecosystem partner, you gotta move fast and you've got to keep innovating. Amazon's gonna do what it has to for customers. >>I think Amazon's gonna have their playbooks when it's all said and done, you know, Do they eat the competition up? I think what they do is they have to have the match on the Amazon side. They're gonna have ah, game and play and let the partners innovate. They clearly need that ecosystem message. That's a key thing. Um, love the message from them. I think it's a positive story, but as you know it's Amazons. This is their Kool Aid injection moment, David. Educational or a k A. Their view of the world. My question for you is what's your take on what wasn't said If you were, you know, as were in the virtual audience, what should have been talk about? What's the reality? What's different? What didn't they hit home? What could they have done? What, your critical analysis? >>Well, I mean, I'm not sure it should have been said, but certainly what wasn't said is the recognition that multi cloud is an opportunity. And I think Amazon's philosophy or belief at the current time is that people aren't spreading workloads, same workload across multiple clouds and splitting them up. What they're doing is they're hedging bets. Maybe they're going 70 30 90 10, 60 40. But so multi cloud, from Amazon standpoint is clearly not the opportunity that everybody who doesn't have a cloud or also Google, whose no distant third in cloud says is a huge opportunity. So it doesn't appear that it's there yet, so that was I wouldn't call it a miss, but it's something that, to me, was a take away that Amazon does not currently see that there's something that customers are clamoring for. >>There's so many threads in here Were unpacked mean Andy does leave a lot of, you know, signature stories that lines in there. Tons of storylines. You know, I thought one thing that that mass Amazon's gonna talk about this is not something that promotes product, but trend allies. I think one thing that I would have loved to Seymour conversation around is what I call the snowflake factor. It snowflake built their business on Amazon. I think you're gonna see a tsunami of kind of new cloud service providers. Come on the scene building on top of AWS in a major way of like, that kind of value means snowflake went public, uh, to the level of no one's ever seen ever in the history of N Y s e. They're on Amazon. So I call that the the next tier cloud scale value. That was one thing I'd like to see. I didn't hear much about the global i t number penetration love to hear more about that and the thing that I would like to have heard more. But Jassy kind of touched a little bit on it was that, he said at one point, and when he talked about the verticals that this horizontal disruption now you and I both know we've been seeing on the queue for years. It's horizontally scalable, vertically specialized with the data, and that's kind of what Amazon's been doing for the past couple of years. And it's on full display here, horizontal integration value with the data and then use machine learning with the modern applications, you get the best of both worlds. He actually called that out on this keynote. So to me, that is a message to all entrepreneurs, all innovators out there that if you wanna change the position in the industry of your company, do those things. There's an opportunity right now to integrate with the cloud to disrupt horizontally, but then on the vertical. So that will be very interesting to see how that plays out. >>And eventually you mentioned Snowflake and I was talking about multi cloud snowflake talks about multi cloud a lot, but I don't even think what they're doing is multi cloud. I think what they're doing is building a data cloud across clouds and their abstracting that infrastructure and so to me, That's not multi Cloud is in. Hey, I run on Google or I run on the AWS or I run on Azure ITT's. I'm abstracting that making that complexity disappeared, I'm creating an entirely new cloud at scale. Quite different. >>Okay, we gotta break it there. Come back into our program. It's our live portion of Cube Live and e. K s Everywhere day. That's multi cloud. If they won't say, that's what I'll say it for them, but the way we go, more live coverage from here at reinvent virtual. We are virtual Cuban John for Dave a lot. They'll be right back.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> As we reported last week, we believe that in the next decade, there will be changes in public policy that are going to restrict the way in which big internet companies are able to appropriate user data. Big tech came under fire again this week with the CEOs of Facebook, Twitter, and Google going toe to toe with several U.S. senators. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, however, was not one of those CEOs in the firing line. Microsoft doesn't heavily rely on ad revenues, rather, the company's momentum is steadily building around Azure, which by my estimates is now roughly 19% of Microsoft's overall revenues. It's surpassed, maybe nearly got to $7 billion for the first time on a quarterly basis. I'll come back to you on that. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we'll respond to the many requests we've had to dig into the business of Microsoft a little bit deeper and provide a snapshot of how the company is faring in the ETR dataset. Let's take a quick look at Microsoft's financials, and the scope of Microsoft's business is actually mind-boggling. The company has roughly $150 billion in revenue, and it grew its top line 12% last quarter. It has more than $136 billion in cash on the balance sheet. Microsoft generates over $60 billion annually in operating cashflow. And last quarter alone threw off more than 19 billion in operating cash. Its gross margins are expanding across virtually all of its major business lines. So let's look at those business sectors. Microsoft, it doesn't suffer from the nagging problems that we've talked about with a lot of older tech companies. Companies like IBM and Dell and Cisco and Oracle and SAP, they struggle with growth sometimes because their growth businesses are not yet large enough to offset the declines in their traditional on-premises business segments. Now at the highest level, Microsoft breaks its business into three broad categories, and they're all growing quite nicely. Let me add some color here. Let's start with the productivity and business process line of business. LinkedIn, which is growing at 16%, is in this category as is Office. This business is shifting from one of on-prem licenses, which are really headwinds right now from Microsoft, to the cloud, in the form of SaaS with Office 365, which is growing at a 20% clip within its commercial market base. Even the consumer side of O365 is growing in the double digits. Dynamics is Microsoft's ERP and CRM business, and that falls into this slice of the pie, that's growing at 18%. And then the newer Dynamics 365, that's growing at 37%. So you can see, Microsoft is easily able to show growth despite the transitions from its legacy business. Intelligent cloud is the next segment. It's kind of the kitchen sink category, meaning there's stuff in there that includes a bit of cloud washing in my opinion, but Microsoft is not nearly as egregious as IBM with the liberties that it takes around its cloud categorization. For Microsoft it's a $13 billion quarterly business. And it's growing at 19%, as we show in the pie chart. Azure is an increasingly large portion of this segment. Azure is the most direct comparison with AWS. And I have said in the past quarter, I'd say it's around 50% of the intelligent cloud, and that it's approaching by my estimates around $7 billion a quarter. Azure grew at 47% annually this past quarter, the same growth rate as last quarter. Ironically, both AWS and Google Cloud grew at the same year over year rate this quarter as they did last quarter. AWS is 29% GCP in the high 50s by at my estimates. AWS revenue was 11.6 billion this past quarter, and I have GCP still well under 2 billion. We'll be updating our cloud numbers and digging deeper next week into this topic. So consider these estimates preliminary for Azure and GCP, which the respective companies don't break out for as Amazon, as you know, breaks out AWS explicitly. Now, back to Microsoft's intelligent cloud business. It includes on-prem server software, which is a managed decline business from Microsoft. They also include enterprise services in this category. So as you can see, it's not a clean cloud number for comparison purposes. Now finally, the third big slice of the pie is more personal computing. I know, it's kind of a dorky name, but nonetheless it's nearly a $12 billion business that's growing at 6% annually. The Windows OEM business is in here, as is Windows 10 and some security offerings. Surface is also in here as well and it's growing in the mid-thirties. Search revenue is in this category as well. It's declining per my earlier statements that it's not a main piece of Microsoft's business. Now, one of the most interesting areas of this sector is gaming. Microsoft's gaming business is growing at 21% and they just acquired ZeniMax Media for seven and a half billion dollars. Let me land on gaming for a minute. The gaming experts at theCUBE are really excited about Microsoft's XBox content services, which grew at about 30% this past quarter. Game Pass is essentially Microsoft's Netflix, or you can think of it as maybe like a Spotify model. You can get in for as low as $5 a month. I think you can pay as much as $15 a month and get access to a huge catalog of games that you can download. In November of last year, Microsoft launched its xCloud beta service, which allows you to download to a PC or a game box. Now eventually with 5G, the box goes away. All you'll need is a screen and you know, controller with the joysticks, no download. In fact, this is how it works today for Android. Now, interestingly, Apple is blocking Microsoft and some others like Google's Stadia, saying that they don't allow streaming game apps like Microsoft's xCloud service, because they don't follow the company's guidelines. What Apple's not telling you is that its adjacent offering, Apple Arcade, is considered subpar by hardcore gamers. And while Apple allows the streaming of movies and music from any service on the iPhone, it's decided not to allow streaming games. Now, the last thing I want to stress about Microsoft is its leverage point around developers. Developers is a big one here, we all remember the sweaty Steve Ballmer running around the stage like a mad man, screaming, "Developers, developers, developers!" Well, despite his obsession with Windows, he sure got that one right. The GitHub acquisition was Microsoft's way of buying more developer love. It does concentrate power with a tech giant, but you know what, if it wasn't Microsoft that bought GitHub, it would have been Facebook or Amazon or Google or one of the other tech giants. Now, despite some angst in the developer community over this, GitHub, it really is a linchpin for Microsoft to more tightly integrate GitHub with its pretty vast developer tool set. All right. Let's look deeper into the Microsoft data and focus on the enterprise. We'll bring in the ETR as we always do. We said last week that Google needed to look to the cloud and edge and get its head out of its ads. Well, Microsoft recovered from its Windows myopia after Satya Nadella took over in 2014, and by all accounts from the ETR survey data, Microsoft is killing it across the board. Let me start by putting Microsoft in context with some of the most prominent companies that both compete with, and sometimes partner with Microsoft. So this xy graph, it's one of our favorites. I show it all the time and it shows net score on the vertical axis, which is a measure of spending momentum from ETR, and the horizontal axis shows what we call market share, which is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. Now in the upper right hand table, you can see the data for each of the companies. There's an ETR survey taken in October and it had more than 1400 completes. Several points stand out here. Microsoft is by far the most pervasive in the dataset, and yet its net score or spending velocity is right there with AWS, ServiceNow, Salesforce, and Workday. Only Snowflake, which I put in there for context, because of its consistently strong net scores, shows a meaningfully higher net score, of course from a much smaller base. Now what makes this so impressive is it represents a pan-Microsoft view across its entire portfolio. And you can see where companies like IBM and Oracle struggle from a momentum standpoint compared to Microsoft, which is a much, much larger company. It's that problem that I referred to earlier regarding the smaller size of their respective growth businesses. Also called Cisco and SAP, which despite some earnings challenges lately, are able to maintain net scores that while not in the green, they're not in the red, either. Green essentially means your overall install base is expanding. Red indicates contraction. Now let's look at the spending patterns for Microsoft customers. This chart shows the granularity of ETR's net score for Microsoft. The green represents increased spend and the red decreased spend. What's impressive is that Microsoft's red zone, I mean it's essentially negligible at 6%, when you add two reds up, the pink and the bright red. Their customers, they're all spending more, or the same, and very few are leaving the platform. Now I made the case last week that Google should double or triple its efforts and focus on cloud and the edge. Microsoft has already made that transition in its business and is the, that's the premise really of my discussion today. Specifically, Microsoft Azure is powering the company across all of its products and services. It's giving Microsoft tremendous operating leverage and steadily improving marginal economics. You can see that in the gross margin lines this quarter, across all of its businesses. And here's a graphic showing its position within cloud computing in terms of net score. Microsoft Azure functions, which is the first bar on this chart, and Azure overall, which is the third set of bars, shows momentum that's as strong as any cloud category, including AWS Lambda, which as we've talked about many times is killing it. Now five over from the left, count them over, one, two, three, four, five, you can see AWS overall. So that's a really important reference point. And while its levels are still elevated, Azure overall, which again is number three from the left, has meaningfully more momentum with 65% net score versus 52% for AWS overall. Now reasonable people can debate the quality of these respective clouds and you could argue over feature sets, who's got the most features, who's got the most regions, which regions are most reliable, who's got the most data centers and all that stuff, but it's really hard to argue against Microsoft's "Good enough" strategy. It's working in the cloud, and it has been working for the company for decades. Now another Microsoft strategy has been to be a late comer to a category and then bundle multiple capabilities into one suite. We saw this at first, really in the late 1980s with Office, and it's continued in a number of areas. The latest example, Microsoft Teams. Teams combines features like meetings, phone, chat, collaboration, as well as business process workflows that leverage tools like SharePoint and PowerPoint. I mean, it's a killer strategy, and you can see the results in this chart. I mean, it's essentially competing with Zoom, it's competing with Slack and all the sort of productivity plays there in that space. And this graphic compares net scores from the year ago October survey for reference, the July survey from this year, and the most recent October survey, as I said, 1400 respondents. Look at the lead that Teams has relative to the competition. There's a story across Microsoft's portfolio. Look at Microsoft's products in the ETR taxonomy. Video conferencing with Teams, productivity apps, RPA, cloud, cloud functions, machine learning, artificial intelligence, containers, security, end point, analytics, mobile, even database. The only signs of softness are really seen in the company's legacy businesses like Skype or on-prem licenses business, which I said were a headwind for them. And while PCs and tablets are weaker, that's what you'd expect from this mature industry relative to some of these other categories. Now, again, the premise here today is that by pivoting to the cloud and going all in competing with infrastructure as a service, Microsoft has created a platform for innovation for its business, and its developer chops are really credible, so it's evolving its install base very successfully to Azure. It's got a very solid hybrid and multi-cloud strategy and story with Microsoft Arc, which eventually it can take to the edge. You know, we think its edge strategy needs some work, but nonetheless, the company is really, really well positioned. Microsoft has a huge partner ecosystem, heck, it even partners with Oracle and database, as well as using Azure to enter new markets, including vertical clouds like healthcare, which it talked about on its earnings call. I mean, there's really not much on which you can criticize Microsoft. You know, sure, they've had some high profile failures in the past. The Nokia acquisition, the Windows phone, you remember Zune? Mixer, you know, Bing. Is Bing a fail? I don't know. Maybe not really. I guess the fail is, you know, what I was talking about last week with antitrust, Microsoft was distracted by the DOJ and maybe that caused it to miss search, give it to Google, and in that sense, maybe it was a failure, but overall, pretty good track record from Microsoft. Yeah, maybe you can say Microsoft is somewhat of a copycat, you know, the graphical user interface that they copied from the Mac, but hey, even Steve Jobs stole that. Surface, okay. The cloud? But so what, ideas, they're plentiful, execution is the key, really. No matter how you slice it, the data doesn't lie. Microsoft's financial performance, its pivot to the cloud, and the success of its adjacent businesses, make it one of the most remarkable rebirths in the history of technology industry. Now I didn't use the word turnaround because the company was never really in trouble. It just became irrelevant and kind of boring. Today, Microsoft is far from immaterial. Okay. That's it for this week. Remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. So please subscribe. I publish weekly on Wikibon.com and Siliconangle.com. And don't forget to check out ETR.plus for all the survey data and analytics. I appreciate always the comments on my LinkedIn posts or you can DM me @DVellante, or email me at David.Vellante@SiliconAngle.com. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching everybody, be well, and we'll see you next time. 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>>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering empowering the autonomous enterprise brought to you by >>Oracle Consulting. Everybody, this is Dave Vellante. We've been covering the transformation of Oracle consulting and really, it's rebirth. And I'm here with Chris Fox, who's the group vice president for Enterprise Cloud Architects and chief technologist for the North America Tech Cloud at Oracle. Chris, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Thanks too great to be here, >>So I love this title. You know, years ago, this thing is a cloud architect. Certainly there were chief technologist, but so you really that's those are your peeps, Is that right? >>That's right. That's right. That's really in my team. And I That's all we dio. So our focus is really helping our customers take this journey from when they were on premise. You really transforming with cloud? And when we think about Cloud, really, for us, it's a combination. It's it's our hybrid cloud, which happens to be on premise. And then, of course, the true public cloud, like most people, are familiar with so very exciting journey and frankly, of seeing just a lot of success for our customers. You know what I think we're seeing at Oracle, though? Because we're so connected with SAS. And then we're also connected with the traditional applications that have run the business for years. The legacy applications that have been, you know, servicing us for 20 years and then the cloud native developers. So with my team and I are constantly focused on now is things like digital transformation and really wiring up all three of these across. So if we think of, like a customer outcome like I want to have a package delivered to me from a retailer that actual process flow could touch a brand new cognitive site of e commerce it could touch essentially maybe a traditional application that used to be on Prem that's now in the cloud. And then it might even use new SAS application, maybe for maybe Herman process or delivery vehicle and scheduling. So when my team does, we actually connect all three. So what? I was mentioned, too. In my team and all of our customers, we have field service, all three of those constituents. And if you think about process flows, so I take a cloud. Native developer we help them become efficient. We take the person use to run in a traditional application, and we help them become more efficient. And then we have the SAS applications, which are now rolling out new features on a quarterly basis and the whole new delivery model. But the real key is connecting all three of these into your business process flow. That makes the customers life much more vision. >>So I want to get into this cloud conversations that you guys are using this term last mover advantage. I asked you last I was being last, You know, an advantage. But let me start there. >>People always say, You know, of course, we want to get out of the data center. We're going zero data center and how we say, Well, how are you going to handle that back office stuff, right? The stuff that's really big Frankie, um, doesn't handle just, you know, instances dying or things going away too easily. It needs predictable performance in the scale. It absolutely needs security. And ultimately, you know, a lot of these applications truly have relied on Oracle database. The Oracle database has its own specific characteristics that it means to run really well. So we actually looked at the cloud and we said, Let's take the first generation clouds but you're doing great But let's add the features that specifically a lot of times the Oracle workload needed in order to run very well and in a cost effective manner. So that's what we mean when we say last mover advantage, We said, Let's take the best of the clouds that are out there today. Let's look at the workloads that, frankly, Oracle runs and has been running for years. What are customers needed? And then let's build those features right into this, uh, this next version of the cloud we service the Enterprise. So our goal, honestly, which is interesting is even that first discussion we had about cloud, native and legacy applications and also the new SAS applications. We built a cloud that handles all three use cases at scale resiliently in very secure manner, and I don't know of any other cloud that's handling those three use cases all in. We'll call it the same pendency process. Oracle >>Mike witnesses. Why was it important for Oracle? And is it important for Oracle on its customers that have to participate in IAS and Pass and SAS. Why not just the last two layers of that? Um What does that mean from a strategic advantage standpoint? What does that do for >>you? Yeah, great question. So the number one reason why we needed to have all three was that we have so many customers to today are in a data center. They're running a lot of our workloads on premise, and they absolutely are trying to find a better way to deliver lower cost services to their customers. And so we couldn't just say, Let's just everyone needs to just become net new. Everyone just needs to ditch the old and go just a brand new alone. Too hard, too expensive at times. So we said, You know, let's kill us customers the ultimate amount of choice. So let's even go back against that developer conversation and SAS Um, if you didn't have eyes, we couldn't help customers achieve a zero data center strategy with their traditional applications will call it PeopleSoft or JD Edwards, Revisit Suite or even. There's some massive applications that are running on the Oracle cloud right now that are custom applications built on the Oracle database. What they want is, they said, Give me the lowest. Possibly a predictable performance. I as I'll run my app steer on this number two. Give me a platform service for database because, frankly, I don't really want to run your database. Like with all the manual effort. I want someone automate, patching scale up and down and all these types of features like should have given us. And then number three. You know, I do want SAS over time. So we spend a lot of time with our customers really saying, How do I take this traditional application, Run it on eyes and has and the number two Let's modernize it at scale. Maybe I want to start peeling off functionality and running in the cloud Native services right alongside, right? That's something again that we're doing at scale. And other people are having a hard time running these traditional workloads on Prem in the cloud. The second part is they say, you know, I've got this legacy traditional your api been servicing we well, or maybe a supply chain system ultimately want to get out of this. How do I get to SAS? You say Okay, here's the way to do this. First bring into the cloud running on IAS and pass and then selectively, I call it cloud slicing. Take a piece of functionality and put it into SAS. We're helping customers move to the cloud at scale. We're helping them do it at their rate, with whatever level of change they want. And when they're ready for SAS, we're ready for them. >>How does autonomous fit into this whole architecture Wait for that? That that description? I mean, it's a it's nuanced, but it's important. I'm sure you haven't discussed this conversation with a lot of cloud architects and chief technologist. They want to know this stuff. They want to know how it works. Um, you know, we will talk about what the business impact is, but but yeah, it's not about autonomous and where that fits. >>So the autonomous database, what we've done is really big. And look at all the runtime operations of an Oracle database. So tuning, patching, sparing all these different features and what we've done is taken the best of the Oracle database the best of something called Exit Data right, which we run in the cloud which really helps a lot of our customers. And then we wrapped it with a set of automation and security tools to help it. Really, uh, managing self tune itself. Patch itself scale up and down, independent between compute and storage. So why that's important, though, is that it? Really? Our goal is to help people run the Oracle databases they have for years, but with far less effort and then even not letting far less effort. Hopefully, you know a machine. Last man out of the equation we always talk about is your man plus machine is greater than man alone, so being assisted by, um, artificial intelligence and machine learning to perform those database operations, we should provide a better service to our customers. Far less paths are hoping goal is that people have been running Oracle databases, you know, How can we help them do it with far less effort and maybe spend more time on what the data can do for the organization? Right? Improve customer experience at Centra versus maybe like Hana Way. How do I spin up the table? It >>so talk about the business impact. So you go into customers, you talk to the the cloud Architects, the chief technologist. You pass that test now, you got to deliver the business impact. We're is Oracle Consulting fit with regard to that? And maybe you could talk about that where you were You guys want to take this thing? >>Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so you know, the cloud is a great set of technologies, but where Oracle Consulting is really helping us deliver is in, um, you know, one of the things I think that's been fantastic working with the Oracle consulting team is that, you know, Cloud is new for a lot of customers who've been running these environments for a number of years. There's always some fear and a little bit of trepidation saying, How do I learn this new cloud of the workloads? We're talking about David, like tier zero, tier one, tier two and all the way up to Dev and Test and, er, um, Oracle consulting. This really couple things in particular, Number one, they start with the end in mind, and number two that they start to do is they really help implement these systems. And, you know, there's a lot of different assurances that we have that we're going to get it done on time and better be under budget because ultimately, you know, again, that's a something is really paramount for us and then the third part of it. But sometimes a run book, right? We actually don't want to just live in our customer's environments. We want to help them understand how to run this new system. So training and change management. A lot of times, Oracle Consulting is helping with run books. We usually well, after doing it the first time. We'll sit back and say, Let the customer do in the next few times and essentially help them through the process. And our goal at that point is to leave only if the customer wants us to. But ultimately our goal is to implemented, get it to go live on time and then help the customer learn this journey to the cloud and without them. Frankly, uh, you know, I think these systems were sometimes too complex and difficult to do on your own. Maybe the first time, especially cause I could say they're closing the books. They might be running your entire supply chain. They run your entire HR system, whatever they might be, uh, too important, leading a chance. So they really help us with helping a customer become live and become very confident. Skilled. They could do themselves >>of the conversation. We have to leave it right there. But thanks so much for coming on the Cube and sharing your insights. Great stuff. >>Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. >>All right. You're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. We are covering the oracle of North American Consulting. Transformation. And it's rebirth in this digital event. Keep it right there. We'll be right back.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCUBE with digital coverage of DockerCon live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back to our DockerCon 2020 DockerCon 20 coverage this is theCUBE virtual here in the Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew, I'm John Furrier your host, got two great guests here. Scott Johnson is the CEO of Docker and Peter McKay CEO of Snyk hot security startup with some big news, you guys have rolled out, but really it's got an impact to developers. Scott and Peter great to see you guys again. >> Great to see John. >> Good to see you John. I'm glad we can at least talk remotely. I wish we were face to face, but obviously we're living in a time of crisis were you starting to see a Cambrian explosion starting to emerge where all people are recognizing that a lot is going to come out of this. You guys have announced a strategic alliance. Can you guys take a minute to explain what is this alliance and what does it mean ? Scott, we'll start with you. >> Absolutely, and thank you, Peter, thank you, John, for this chance to share with you all that's going on it's very exciting. Look, what we saw together as teams, both, both Peter's and ours was the developer experience is getting better and better in terms of faster and faster iterations but we weren't in the world of the Docker Desktop and Docker Hub experience having kind of scary as a first pass citizen that was really right in front and center with developer workflow. And so in working with Peter's team, we realized that the two companies had the same vision of like, let's bring that developer for security just right in center, in the user experience in the command line, in the tooling and just make it natural. So that developers could continue to iterate rapidly, continue to ship value, ship features fast. But in addition to doing that, do so in a secure fashion and in a secure manner. And really that's what this partnership is about is making security just kind of built in natural developer friendly developer first. We're very very excited to partner with Snyk and then bring this to development community. >> Peter, you guys have a unique business model, you're developer first security. What does this mean to you? Docker has got millions of developers out there who know containers, there's certainly developer first. What does this alliance mean to you guys as Snyk? >> Yeah, when you think of the developer community, you think of Docker, I mean, that's when we looked at the front end of our funnel, the people who we go after and our users, it's developers, and when you think developers, you think Docker and so we've got... Scott and I got together I'd say four or five months ago where we started talking about building a tighter relationship together the synergies between what he was doing and the team was doing, we're doing at Docker. And what we were trying to do is kind of embed the developer experience and develope and integrate security into that really made a very compelling value proposition together for developers and embedding that security into that application development into your containers and your image and your application development life cycle just made it a better developer experience overall. >> We've been talking to a lot of developers, certainly for DockerCon and just outside of the industry anecdotally, is that Docker really revolutionized, container ideas has been such a great win for developers. Containerizing applications really has changed the game, has spawned the generation of Kubernetes and cloud native microservices. What specifically is going on with you guys in this partnership? Where's the security fit in because can I just do a scan and scan the vulnerabilities? I mean, what's unique here? What does this mean for developers? What's going on with the alliance? >> Yeah, I'll take it first, Peter, but then jump in. So John, in the history of application development, so often security is not addressed until the end. And so developers they're shipping rapidly. They're they're iterating quickly, but then it gets, right before production and the alarm goes off and security team swoops in and security is often seen as a point of friction or a way to delay applications from getting the market and delivering value quickly. And this partnership completely reverses that where instead of having security be further down the stream of the tool chain or the application development life cycle, we're pulling it right up in front and having it be right alongside all the other activities that a developer is doing around building their code around, testing their code around, running their code locally. And it's the whole shift left I'm mean I'm sure you've seen out there and we are shifting this as far left it can be where it's right there on the local Docker Desktop in the command line as a primary emotion and its primary tool to building a great secure application as any other aspect of the tool chain. And that was really the focus of the partnership, which is like, make this just native and as far left as possible and not make security an afterthought or something that gets taken place by other Ops people downstream. >> Peter. >> If you think can about... That's the whole concept of how Snyk was founded. We all came from an application security background where it was security tools for security people, and it really... The whole industry needed this fundamental shift in the approach. And as Scott said that whole shifting left concept to really scale security in the right way and is to embed it into that application development life cycle into embedded into the tools that developers use each and every day. So they wanted to be a security expert, a developer doesn't need to be someone who knows all the vulnerabilities, they just need to know how to develop the most creative, indeed the most agile organization to develop, much better applications. And if they can do it in a more secure way they would obviously do it, but don't make them do something dramatically different and don't ask them to be security experts. And that's what we've tried to do in the partnership with Docker allows us to embed that continuous security insights into that whole development loop to when they develop these applications, they're secure when they're done and all the way through that development life cycle, you're testing for vulnerabilities in auto remediating along the way. So it allows them to develop very creative at the pace in which they want to develop. And it makes them more secure by doing it. >> Yeah, let me pick up on Peter's point there, which is so often security has been something that's discovered late in the process, right? Either just before production or sometimes even in production. And then just think about that feedback loop. It's got to go all the way back upstream all the way to the element team developers got to go find what they're working on. Well, maybe not hours ago, it could have been days ago could even be weeks ago and then both figure out how to remediate, get it all the way through the inner loop and the outer loop. We're completely blowing that up and disrupting that by bringing it all the way forward such that the feedback is right then and there with the developer in the moment on the laptop, in their inner loop and giving them the immediate response that they need and the single they need to take action remediate and then move on to the next creative thing they can do is they're just thinking about shortening that whole feedback loop. And really as Peter said, building security in from the get go because the signal is there to give them a indication of what they need to do right then and there. >> Great, I want to get into the... I mean, I can see the workflow advantage, so I totally get that. I've heard on theCUBE many times that security has got to be built in from the beginning. We've heard that before many times, I don't think I've heard security discussed this way, combined with the trends arounds automation. So can you guys talk about how that fits in? Because I get shifting left all that workflow, all goodness. But now I'm assuming there's a whole op side of security. And then if I'm trying to automate things and that's the real trend we're seeing here, how does that all work? Does that all come together? And it's this kind of unique that you guys are doing? Can you unpack that a little bit and clarify? >> Yeah, I mean, this has been something that we've been focused on quite a bit. I mean, the first it's... Used to be that you used to find a lot of vulnerability and yes we find a lot of vulnerabilities. And what we tried to do is focused on the prioritization and really hear the critical ones that developers need to fix first, second, third, and fourth based on severity. And we build that all in and that's something that we learned that we built into the process. And then last phase is this auto remediation. To the extent we can auto correct and auto fix, which is becoming increasingly a bigger part because the more you learn about the vulnerabilities in some of the fixes, the more you can automate and remediate that just makes the whole development process that much more productive and efficient. And that's really what we're trying to do, not only just find vulnerabilities, prioritize them, what are the ones that are what the team feels as severity one twos and threes embed that into the process. So you fix these are the ones you're fixing first, second, and third, into the extent they could be auto remediated, then fix them automatically. So we're trying to build that increasingly into the application. >> So, is this the first secure containerization deployment model? I mean, have other people have been doing this? I mean, is this new to Docker new to the industry? What's what's going on? >> Well, so we're here to talk about the partnership and of course there's a wealth of a very active ecosystem in and around security and other spaces. But we think this is the first that brings it this close to the developer in the moment in the command line on the desktop. And thus we think it has a lot of value to offer development team. >> I'll put my developer hat on. I'm one of the millions of developers, containers are part of my daily design coding, What's in it for me? Why does it matter to me as a developer? What does it do for me? Save time? What's the impact for the developer? >> Well, you think about... I mean, just look at the old model, right? The old model is you develop an application, you send it to the security team and they'll audit it. They'll tell you all the vulnerabilities and then they'll ship it back to you. You fix it, then they'll check it again. And they were waiting in the queue and then they'll tell you what's wrong and they'll send it back and think of that long. It's just like... Can you remember in the early day, when they a quality issue, fix it earlier in the life cycle of an application, don't wait till the end where the quality is embedded into the process. And so what you find is, the developers are embracing this and we have our like Docker, you have a freemium where developers can try it and realize that look, and I'm going to have to do security anyway, I mean, I have to develop secure application. If I can use a tool that's built for me and embedded into my development life cycle so I don't have to be a security expert and I don't have to wait for the security teams, to tell me what's wrong. And I can embed this all the way through and then not have to go through that painful step at the very end, to go through that security audit. I would do that any day of the week-- >> (mumbles) it back to you, do the scans, "Hey, you got to fix this." And then developer Scott your point moves on. They're coding, right? I mean, that's a problem. >> Developers want to ship, right? I mean, going back to your point, John, like one of the revolutions of Docker is that it is given the expectation that developers can ship faster. And right now in much of the state of the state, because security is important, like it can serve as a gate. And as Peter just walked you through it can slow down developer shipping and having impact. And so for you, the developer, John, like this gives you freedom to ship early often, high-frequency everything the promise of the container development model. This really unleashes that. >> Yeah 'cause that rails around the security policies too allows them to be projected in as syntax, if you will, or as part of the coding environment so I don't have to worry about it. I mean, at the end of the day, it's peace of mind, more than anything, time is certainly a pain in the butt, but yeah, as a developer, the creativity we needed more than ever. Okay, so with the COVID crisis-- >> One last point I want to make on that, sorry, it's also the security teams want it to because they don't want to be the bottleneck. They don't want to be doing this at the last minute and having all the pressure on them. I mean, they know that a big chunk of their business is going through these applications. So a lot of the budget dollars that come from people buying Snyk and embedding it into the process is from security because they can't keep up this digital transformation and what companies are going through. They don't want to be, there's one of two things. Either they're going to be the bottleneck or the developers are going to go around them and just put an application in the cloud in it and ship the container, put it anywhere then going around security. So they don't want that either. So there's just a very tight alignment between developers want to ship fast and security teams want to do the same. >> I hate to say it, but the whole agility is now not only just normal for us insiders in the industry. It's proven now with this COVID crisis that you have to be fast, you have to be at scale. And I think this speaks to some of the experiences you guys had in the industry, you were talking earlier. If you're not moving at the pace that you need to move at the scale you need the automation it's proven cloud native is going is completely ratified in my mind. There's no doubt, that means microservices is front and center and this change that's happening right now. And when we come out of this pandemic, there's going to be growth winners and not growth winners. We flat line to decline or winners, and it's all going to be based on microservices. So for the developers out there going to be called into the office as someday or in a Zoom, let's get these apps double down on this, kill that project. There's going to be those conversations >> It's happening right now, John. So look, what's happening, as a result of COVID an entire bodies of human activity are shifting from offline online. Like social, consumer, B2B, healthcare going down the list, finance, commerce, retail, like massive tectonic shift going from offline online. That means massive demand for new applications, new application development, and quickly, some this shift is happening and there's a bunch of businesses that didn't have exposure to digital they're like, "Oh my goodness, I need a digital strategy. "I need a digital channel. "I need a digital revenue stream." And so the demand for new applications quickly is exploding through the roof. And we see this across the board in our industry right now which is very, very fortunate given the other circumstances and other industries, but you're absolutely right. Like this lets them ship faster. And now is the time when they need to ship and ship fast. >> And the budgets are going to be allocated on these new projects was just a nuance in your point, it's new projects and then there's fixing modernizing the old stuff. Because look at Walmart, Walmart got hamstrung on the eCommerce side, they just killed their jet acquisition. They spent $3 billion on, this is the reality. This is not like just a strategy to do innovation, innovation strategy or some walk down, digital transformation lane. This is happening, it has to be done. What do they do? >> Its interesting and it starts, we always say, we start with the new and replaced the old. We start with a new application, it usually is always the case where we usually start with a lot of the companies is a new (mumbles) on application. And then it expands from there. And so know you look at what you used to be the best practices were tech companies, and then it moved to financial services, industries and insurance and then in retail, now you look at manufacturing, you look across the board, as Scott said, this offline to online, is driving so much of the empowering developers to take on more responsibility and to own more of it, but to be faster and to be more agile. And that's really, what's driving this big shifts in the market. And like you said earlier, if they're not there, they're in trouble because this market is driving that direction. >> I want to get both of your comments on this final question, because even with the progression of the developers from the Steve bomber developer development developers, speech on YouTube to developers on the front lines, cloud native, and now today it's been a progression. And I think it's always been the developers on the front lines are getting closer to the front lines. I think now it's even more compelling because there's a scale and agility speed game going on. So I think it's just another step function, developer relevance. It's not so much, they've never been close to, they have been getting closer they're in the business conversation and the ones that could move fast are the ones going to deliver the value. So if automation is in the playbook, if cloud need is not in the playbook, this is going to be the new developer equation, the ones that meet that will be successful. Can you guys react to that and your thoughts? >> Go ahead Peter. >> I mean, I think what we're trying to do is make that developer experience just one from just the partnership with Docker and is a key, just making it really easy, do the integration, do a lot of the work, make the developer experience as seamless as possible, make it very efficient for them, make it easy for them to try and buy, make it just a great experience and allow them to, or empower them to take on more of the responsibility of getting that App published and in the containers out the door. And that's what we're excited about with the partnership with Docker is that with the number of developers that they have, the work that we do together, and the roadmap that we have is really making that experience just an incredible journey for our developer and that's what we want to continue to make sure we foster. >> Scott, the new relevance of developers, your thoughts. >> Yeah, I would only--building on Peter's point, observed that a lot of the developer expectations are informed by the stack and what's possible. And to your points earlier about the previous waves, John, like, developers are important, but their full potential if you will was perhaps muted or gated because there was not a clean abstraction between the application on the underlying infrastructure. And now, as we know, Dockerization and the surrounding ecosystem of Kubernetes and other tools, we have a much cleaner separation between the Application and the infrastructure, and that allows and set expectations for a much higher cadence of release much faster, time to value, much more agile operations in terms of responding to competitors and the market and your customers. And so with that expectation, how do you unleash that? And this partnership is really key to that, by taking the friction out. As we talked about kind of historical security models and bringing a new model that bring the security way left right into the developers around that experience. And then in some sense, really fulfills that ability to move quickly, react in an agile fashion and have an impact as quickly as possible. >> That's awesome security built into the workflow, automated industry first, guys thanks so much for a great partnership, but the final work at the plugin for the relationship going forward, how's that work is going to be available is integration code is it development? Give a quick plug for what's happening, the relationship and what's happening going forward? >> Look, Docker only succeeds if the ecosystem succeeds. and we're very very proud and humbled to join arms with Peter and the Snyk team as a partner in the security ecosystem. And so you'll see us not only in this integrated developer experience on the command line, which is going to be very, very valuable to developers that we've been talking about, but you'll see us out there promoting the solution in different forms and community groups. And so it doesn't stop and end with the DockerCon experience, look for us in the year ahead to do more and more together. >> Awesome. >> I agree and I think that just culturally and the way the organizations work really well together, I think this is a beginning of a longer journey and a longer partnership we're going to have together with Scott and the team, so we're excited. I think the validation, the early validation we've got from the development teams that we've been talking to around the world, I think there's tremendous desire for this to happen, and we're excited to launch the journey together, with Scott and team. >> It's been a lot of fun watching this progression, like you said, create that headroom, the developable, we'll take it right up and there'll be another step function, more progression. Great job guys. Congratulations on the great partnership >> We need to security built in, we need more creativity. We need that, we need this new modern era to be flourishing. Thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you. >> theCUBE coverage, virtual CUBE coverage of DockerCon 20. I'm John Furrier your host, along with Docker for DockerCon 20 #Docker 20. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for our next segment of DockerCon 20 virtual. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation! >> Hi, everybody, this is Dave Vellante, and welcome to this CUBE conversation. You know, in this COVID-19 pandemic, we've been reaching out to folks that really have good visibility on what's going on out there. Tim Conley is here, he's a principal with the ATS Group, and partner of IBM. Tim, good to see you again man, thanks for comin' on! >> You got it, Dave, how are you today? >> Not too bad, you hangin' in there with all this craziness? How are things where you are? >> Yeah, we sure are, it's like groundhog day everyday, right? >> I know, the family's goin' crazy. They want to get out, and, well summer's comin', so hopefully the pandemic is going to calm down a little bit here, give us a breather. >> I hear that. >> But so, tell us what's goin' on these days with your company, with the ATS Group, what are you seein' in the marketplace? Give us the update. >> Sure, Dave. We've been in business 19 years now as a IBM systems integrator. Doin' a lot of work around storage. There's a lot of shiny new nickels out there these days that we're trying to make sure that we stay ahead of the game on. You know, our customers demand excellence from us, because that's what we've been giving them the last, you know, 19 years. So, they demand that from us, which is actually a great position for us to be in, but you know, with a lot of the new, shiny new nickels out there today, takes a lot of energy to focus on those, make sure we're talkin' to our customer about the right things, at the right times in the marketplace. >> I had Ed Walsh on the other day, and actually a couple times within the last six months, and he shared with us, actually in studio, when we didn't have to be six feet apart, the new announcements, the simplification of the portfolio. Presumably you've seen that. What was your reaction, how do you think the customer will react? >> That's a good question. Like I said, we're always looking to be bleeding edge, that's actually where we got our name from, Advanced Technology Services Group. So, IBM consistently comes out with some really good products and solutions, and we're constantly vetting that in our innovation center, in beta programs and things like that. A couple key things that are working now with us is Hybrid Multicloud. You know, IBM comes out, like I said, with some good solutions. We vet them out, and we're real excited about Spectrum Virtualize for Public Cloud. We've been using that for probably the last 12, 14 months, so trying to get the word out our customers on what it means, for partners as well, we can have a simple 10 minute conversation with our customers and our partners, kind of describe it at a high-level, and then they can gain interest at that point. It can be a little tricky, but we try to take that trickiness out of it, and let our customers know what's really goin' on, how it works for disaster recovery, for data protection to the cloud. Customers always want to talk about those things, but a lot of them really don't know those specifics, so we literally in 10 to 15 minutes can simply it to them, let 'em know how it works, and what scenarios it might work for them. Again, doing tests, and PoCs, things like that, it's really easy for us to do. One of our big federal customers want to call today at 12 o'clock, going over that implementation. They're pretty excited about tryin' it out, 'cause everybody thinks they want to move some things to the cloud, so Spectrum Virtualize allows us to do that pretty transparently. In fact, we used it ourselves last year, 'cause we took the journey to the cloud for SaaS offering. Took us over a year to do it, let me tell ya, it's not easy. You know, people make it sound like goin' to cloud is a snap, you know, spin up some OS instances, some EBS storage, and away we go. It's not that easy. >> I was just talkin' to a software executive who started his company 37 years ago, we both agreed, that's kind of when I started in this business, we both agreed that it just keeps getting more and more complicated. So, firms like yours are, but okay, so you talk about Hybrid Multicloud, of course IBM has cloud, but IBM itself says, "Hey, we hope people put their data into our cloud, "but we know there's other clouds out there." Well, hence Multicloud. So, what do you see as going on in the marketplace, specifically as it relates to Multicloud? And I wonder if we could weave in the COVID-19. Are you seeing people more receptive to cloud? >> Yeah, I'll tell ya, with COVID-19 we've had some opportunities delayed, because customers don't quite know where the market's going to go for themselves. We actually had one customer go out of business. So, that ultimately delayed a deal forever, right? But overall, things aren't that bad, but we do see customers, you know, lookin' to make some things easier for themselves. They might have been thinking about the cloud, but COVID's kind of brought it to the forefront, and they want to make things easier right away. Maybe you can save some money, right? So, we have a calculator we created for our customers to really go measure things to see what actually would it cost to go to cloud? You know, a lot of customers have no clue what it is. We could do that in five minutes for them, really interesting so, again we'll give them that information that hey, going to cloud might be an opportunity that they didn't think might be existent 'til now. >> So, Spectrum Virtualize, otherwise known you know, for those who have been around for a while like I have as kind of the roots of the SVC, the SAN Volume Controller, and the history of that product is software that enables you to virtualize, not just IBM storage, but anybody's storage, and of course one of the major use cases has been migration. So, in downturns, people want to get more value out of existing system. You know, maybe they come off lease, or maybe they want to elongate the life, and they may not have all the function so they can plug it into an SVC, and they get all the wonderful new bells and whistles, and the capabilities there. I wonder if we could talk about that, and again, what you're seeing just in terms of the current, you know, economic situation, and then specifically as it relates to cloud? >> That's a really a good point. So, you're tying to key things in today, right? Customers are looking to save money, because they don't want their financial outlook is based on COVID-19, so being able to help customers, and you nailed it, right? SVCs, Spectrum Virtualize has been around for, gosh probably 11 or 12 years now, 13 years actually. Right? So, we pride ourselves on bringing that to customers. Showing them how they can virtualize their environments in the storage arena. And we have some gigantic customers in the federal space, commercial space, so we don't just bring out white paper, say, "Eh, well it kind of looks good." Right? We actually have distinct customers, and talk to them about how they can drive their storage efficiencies up with IBM technologies, especially virtualization. And then, you know, reducing their overall cost. That's key, especially now. Customers are constantly looking to reduce their costs and whatnot with their storage, so that's a perfect inroad to that, and then bringin' in the Multicloud part of it, you're just extending Spectrum Virtualize to the cloud. You know, it was in IBM cloud first, it was in AWS back June of last year, and now we're working at IBM on puttin' that out into Azure. You know, so we can bring those savings to customers in the cloud, which they didn't know they could do that before. >> All right Tim, talk a little bit more about Multicloud, because you know, a joke recently, up until recently anyway, that Multicloud is more of a symptom of multi vendor, as opposed to a strategy, but with shadow IT, and sort of rogue systems, and the marketing department, the sales, everybody doing their own cloud, essentially Multicloud has become a strategy that the CIO has been asked to come in, "Hey, we got all these clouds." Clean up the crime scene I call it! What are you seeing today around Multicloud? >> That's a great point, I like that term, I'm going to steal it if you don't mind. Multicloud's customers are very much interested in, we have several customers doing Multicloud, IBM, Amazon, Azure. We actually did a study for an Azure customer, where we actually projected him to go to AWS with substantial cost savings. Some of that had to do with right-sizing their environment, where they weren't right-size in azure today. But I got to tell ya, you know, Cloud's not simple. It's not easy, again I mentioned earlier, we took that journey ourselves, spent a lot of time and energy with some really smart guys on my team to take that journey. So, Multicloud is a really great idea, and should be looked at, but I'm tellin ya' it's not quite that easy to just shift around, but there are definitely things to move to different cloud vendors. Again, if we bring it back to the storage arena, right? Spectrum Virtualize today's in IBM and Amazon, it's not in other clouds, so if you want to go that route, perfect opportunity to go Multicloud. >> Yeah, I mean I think you're makin' a good point. Let's face it, for our audience, we're in the early days of Multicloud. Yes, everybody has multiple clouds, everybody talks about having multiple clouds, but to be able to run applications natively in all these different clouds, whether it's the control plane, the data plane, the transport plane, all these disparate systems, and really be able to take native advantage of the local cloud services. That's not only very complex, it's really not fully baked out here today, but you know, we heard this week at IBM saying a lot of talk about Red Hat, containers, and Open Shift. So, we're starting on that journey, and that's really the promise of Multicloud, to be able to ultimately run applications anywhere, but as you point out, that's a very complex situation today for customers. >> Yeah, that's a good point. So, I totally would follow up with you on that, that's Multicloud, customers are looking at it, and their are some distinct advantages to the different cloud vendors. One could even say on-prem is a form of cloud, right? That's just your private cloud. So, keeping things on-prem for certain scenarios makes sense, be able to tie that back to the big cloud vendors, IBM, Amazon, Azure, right? Tying them together is the direction people are looking to go, and are kind of, some of them are there and have done it, but I'd say some, or more of them are in the infancy stage of that. >> What are you seeing in terms of, just kind of switching topics on you, in terms of things like governments, compliance, a lot of talk about cyber resiliency, especially given the pandemic. What are you seeing there with customers? >> Wow, that's a big topic. It's interesting, data classification, you think it'd be that easy, especially for some of our fed' customers, it's not that easy, right? Tryin' to classify the data, they just don't know, they might know the applications, but they don't know the content of that data. Is it able to be, what is it, section 126? Something like that. Is it able to go to the cloud? So, customers have a struggle on their hands tryin' to do that, right? The technology, groups within the customers, the storage folks, the OS folks, the Apps folks, they're all about the cloud, move things to cloud, but at the end of the day, it's the security folks that need to be able to do that data classification to see can the data even go there? Let alone the application or whatnot. Fairly easy to do that kind of stuff, but the data classification, we see that's the hard part. >> Okay, so you talked about shiny new toys at the beginning of this conversation. You know, IBM, you're tryin' to be a shiny old toy, (Tim laughing) they've been around you know, a century. >> Yeah. >> Why IBM though? What is it about IBM that you choose to partner with them? Give us the good, the bad, and the what you'd like to see improve. >> I would say, we've been a partner for IBM a long time, I used to work for IBM a million years ago. At the end of the day, our customers demand excellence from us, and they demand things to work, right? So, for me to put my company, and my resources into an opportunity for my customers, we can count on IBM. One, we have a great relationship with them, they have fantastic solutions, and then we vet them out. Our customers demand that of us, and I can give real world examples of one customer to another. So again, it's not like a white paper, I read it from vendor XYZ, at the end of the day we're implementing these solutions at our customers. A lot of times we're doing em in our lab first to make sure it works as designed, figure out with the shiny new nickels, you know, what's broken with that nickel? Why's it not so shiny? Or is it really as shiny as it appears to be, right? So, being able to do that stuff in-house is great, but at the end of the day, our customers demand excellence, and you know, we have to be bringing solutions to our customers, and IBM provides quite a few solutions, especially around the storage arena, where we live and breathe, that instant marketplace. So, we have to use great solutions that we can trust, and know work. >> So, my last question is what have you learned in the last, you know, couple of months with this pandemic. Now that we start to hopefully come out of it, at least for a little while, what are you learning? What's been accelerated, or pulled forward, and we're obviously not just goin' to 2019. So, how are you seeing your business, and your customers responding, what's the sort of mindset going forward? >> I'd say two things, so there's the COVID stuff, and then I talk about ransomware, cyber security, that could be another whole topic, right? But at the end of the day, I've been on a lot of webinars, and things of last three, four weeks, five weeks, listenin' to vendors talk about their shiny new nickels, and it's, quite frankly it's a bunch of mumbo jumbo, and that's not the world we live in, 'cause that's not what our customers are asking from us. But a lot of customers are really concerned about cyber security, ransomware. I have two customers locally that got hit with ransomware last fall, and let me tell ya, it's not a pretty scene, and they were not prepared for it, right? So, one of our jobs is to really help our customers understand where their gaps are within their organization, so that if they do get hit by cyber crime, or ransomware, that they can actually survive that, and not actually have to pay for it, then be up and running in a very small amount of time, which is key. Like I said, two customers got hit, just of mine, within 20 miles of our business, and they weren't prepared for it. >> I can't leave it there Tim, what do I got to do, if I'm an organization that's concerned about ransomware, probably every organization, what are the steps that I should take, like immediately? >> I would say a health assessment, and it doesn't have to be from ATS, it could be from anybody that's got the experience, and whatnot. We do health checks for customers consistently, and they don't have to be expensive, they don't have to be like, months. People always think, "A health check, oh my god, it's going to take so much time." It really doesn't. It's a quick health check, and we can look at those key things within your organization to see where you might not be prepared. And I'm talking like not prepared, like if you get ransomware tomorrow, you very well could be out of business. It's not hard to see those kinds of things. And you can make it more detailed if customers want that, right? But I would definitely have customers, if you're interested in that, call us, call any other vendor out there that's doin' those kinds of things. But it's fairly easy for folks like us and other vendors to be able to do those health checks, just take a quick look in your environment, see where your gaps are that you could literally go out of business tomorrow. >> Okay so, first pass is you're lookin' for open chest wounds that you got to close immediately and stop the bleeding, and then what? You start implementing things, you know, best practices, air gap. >> Air gap, you stole the word right out of my mind, air gap, right? You have to start, you know, look and see where, what's the requirements? First of all, make sure you can survive the event, and get back up and running in a reasonable amount of time, right? That one customer I mentioned was probably four or five weeks before they were able to restore all their servers, and they were fortunate that a lot of those were test thing that they could kind of wait a little bit long, but the other one they nearly went out of business, 'cause they just weren't prepared for it, right? So yeah, air gapping is a key thing, right? You know, where I put my data that it can't be touched, right? That's a fairly easy thing to start off with. >> Yeah, and then the whole process of recovery, who's on deck, you know, et cetera, et cetera. How communications occurs, there's technology, and of course as always, there's people in process. Well, Tim, I'll give you the last word, bring us home! >> Bring us home. Hey, but Dave, thanks very much for your time today. This is was a great time talking to you about some key things that we've worked with day in and day out over the last couple months. Again, bringing our solutions to our customers, that they demand that excellence from us. Bringin' IBM solutions that we natively know and love, and trust, because we've done 'em many, many times with other customers. So, pretty excited about what's goin' on in the industry, lookin' at all those shiny new nickels, and see which ones are actually shiny at the end of the day. >> All right, Tim, well listen, thanks for comin' back on theCUBE, it's great to see ya. I hope we get to see each other face to face. Stay safe. >> Sounds good Dave, thanks for your time, thank you. >> All right, you're welcome, and thank you for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with theCUBE. Go to http://www.siliconangle.com to check out all the news, for thecube.net, where all these videos live, and http://www.wikibon.com, where I publish weekly. We'll see you next time on theCUBE. (relaxing instrumental music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation vibrator this is Dave Volante and welcome to this special cube conversation as you know I've been running a CXO series now for several weeks really trying to understand how leaders are dealing and coping with the Cova 19 crisis today we want to switch gears a little bit and talk not only about how leadership has sort of navigated through this crisis but also start to imagine what it's going to look like coming out of it I'm going to introduce you to a company that have been talking about now for the last well six to nine months company called octave as you know from my previous breaking analysis this is a company that not only is in the security business they really kind of made their mark with identification management but also really there's a data angle normally when you think about security you thinking about auto security it means that less user flexibility it means less value from the user standpoint what what octa has done really successfully is bring together both endpoint security as well as that data angle and so the company is about six hundred million dollars in revenue they've got an eighteen billion dollar valuation which you know may sound kind of rich at 30 X a revenue multiple but as I've reported the company is growing very rapidly I've talked about the you know the rule of 40 octa is really a rule of 50 type of company you know by that definition they're with me here to talk about the product side of things as dia jolly who's the chief product officer yeah thanks so much for coming on the cube I hope you're doing okay how are things out in California things are going well good to meet you as well Dave I hope you're doing well as well yeah we're hanging in there you know the studios are rocking the cube you know continues our daily reporting I want to start with your role you're relatively new to octa you've got a really interesting background particularly understanding endpoints you're at Google Google home of Google Nest you spent some time you know worrying about looking after Xbox do you a good understanding of what's going on in the marketplace but talk about your your role and how specifically you're bringing that to enterprise sure so I drove about this I I say that I've done every kind of known product management imaginable the man at this point I'm done both Hardware Don software so dealt a lot with endpoints as you talked about that a lot with sass dealt with consumer dealt with enterprise and all over the place completely different sizes so after really my role as a chief product officer is to be able to understand and what our customers need right and what are the challenges they're facing and not just the challenges they're facing today but also what are the challenges that they'll face tomorrow that they don't even know about and then help build products to be able to overcome that both with our engineering teams as well as with our sales engineering team so that we can take it to market now my background is unique because I've seen so many identity being used in so many different ways across so many different use cases whether it's enterprise or its consumer and that given that we covered both sides spectrum I can bring that to bear yes so what I've reported previously is that that you guys kind of made your mark with with identification management but in terms of both workforce but also customer identification management which has been I think allowed you to be very very successful I want to bring up a chart and share something that I've I've shared a lot of data with our audience previously some guys if you bring that up so this is data from enterprise Technology Research our data partner and for those who follow this program you know we we generally talk in in two metrics a net score which is a measure of spending momentum and and also market share which really isn't real market share but it's it's pervasiveness in the survey and what you can see here is the latest April survey from over 1200 CIOs and IT practitioners and we're isolating on an octa and and we brought it back to July 15 survey you see a couple of points here I want to make one is it something to the right this is pervasiveness or market share so octa in the market is doing very very well it's why the valuation is so high what's driving the growth and then you can see in the green a 55% net net score very very strong it's one of the leaders in security but as I said it's more than than that so dia from a product standpoint what is powering this momentum sure so as you well know the world is working from home what after does is it provides Identity Management that allows you to connect to any technology and by any technology it primarily means technology technology that's not just on premise like your applications on-premise old-school applications or into software that's on premise but it also means technology that's in the clouds of SAS applications application infrastructure that's in the cloud etc and on the other hand it also allows companies to deploy applications where they can connect to their customers online so as more and more of the world moves to work from home you need to be able to securely and seamlessly allow your employees your partners to be able to connect from their home and to be able to do their work and that's the foundation that we provide now if you look at if you we've heard a lot in the press about companies like zoom slack people that provide online collaboration and their usage has gone up we're seeing similar trends across both octa as well as the entire security industry in general right and if you look at information recently since over to started phishing attacks have increased by six hundred and sixty seven percent and what we've seen in response is one of our products which is multi-factor authentication we've experienced in eighty percent growth in usage so really as Corvette has pushed forward there was a trend for people to be able to work remotely for people to be able to access cloud apps and but as ubered has suddenly poured gas on the fire for that we're seeing our customers reaching out to us a lot more needing more support and just the level of awareness and the level of interest raising let's talk about some of the trends that you guys see in the marketplace and like to better understand how that informs your product or you know roadmap and decisions you know obviously this cloud you guys have made a really good mark in the cloud space you know with both your your operating model your pricing model the modern stack the other is a reference that upfront which data talked a lot about digital transformation digital us data course the third is purity related to trust we've talked a lot on the cube about how the perimeter is there is no particular anymore the Queen is left her castle and so what are the big trends that you see the big waves that that you're riding and how does that inform your product directly sure so a few different things I think number one if you think about the way I've phrase this is or the way I think about it is the following any big technological trend you see today right whether it's the move the cloud whether it's mobile whether it's artificial intelligence intelligence you think about the neural nets etc or it's a personalized consumer experience all of that fundamentally depends on identity so the most important the so from a from being an identity provider the most important thing for us is to be able to build something that is flexible enough that is broad enough that it is able to span multiple uses right so we've taken from a product perspective that means we can follow two philosophies we can either the try and go solve each of these pain points one by one or we can actually try to build a platform that is more open that's more extensible and that's more flexible so that we can solve many of these use cases right and not only can we solve it because there's it extensible our customers can customize it they can build on top of it our partners can build on top of it so that's one thing that's one product philosophy that we hold dear and so we have the Octagon cloud which is a platform which provides both workforce identity as well as customer identity using the same underlying components the same multi-factor authentication we use for workforce we package up as an SDK so that our customer identity customers that's number one the second thing is you rightfully mention is data you can't really secure identity without data so we have very we have a lot of data across our customers we know when the users logging in we know what device they're logging in front we know the security posture on the device we know where they're logging in from we know their different behaviors were apps they go into or during wartime of the day etc so being able to harness all this data to say hey and apply ml model squared to say hey is the user secure or not is a very very core foundation of our product so for example we have what we call risk-based authentication you can not only do things like hey this user seems to be logging on from a location they've never logged on from but you could even do things like well you may not want to stop the user they may be traveling so instead of just asking them for a for a password you ask them for a multi-factor right so that's the other piece of it and in many ways data and security and usability are three legs of a triangle the more data you have the more you can allow a user you more security you can provide a user without creating more friction so it's sometimes helpful for the audience to understand a company in a edit Avant act in the landscape so the obvious platform out there is Active Directory now Microsoft with Azure Active Directory you know really you know trying to and and that's really been on their platforms but with api's you know Microsoft has got a thumbs in every pie how does octave differentiate from some of the other traditional platforms that are out there and and what gives you confidence that it and you can continue to do so going forward post kovat that's it that's a fantastic question Dave um so I think we divide if you think about our competitors on the workforce side we've got Microsoft and a couple of other competitors and on the customer Identity side really it's a bill versus buy story right most companies customer identity internally so let's take workforce first Microsoft is the dominant player there they've got Active Directory they've now got Azure Active Directory and from a Microsoft perspective I think Microsoft is always been great at building products or building technology that interconnected run the world is going to more there's more and more technology proliferation in the world and the way we differentiate is by becoming a neutral and independent platform so whether you're on a Microsoft stack whether you're on a Google stack whether you're on an amazon stack we are able to connect with you deeply we connect just as well with all 365 as they connect with Salesforce as we connect with AWS right and that has been our core philosophy and not only is that a philosophy for other when other vendors it's a philosophy for ourselves as well we have multi-factor authentication so do many other providers like duo if you want to use ours great if you don't want to use ours with our platform who use the one that's best for your technology and I think what we've always believed in from a product perspective is this independence this neutrality this ability to plug-and-play any technology you want into a platform to be able to do what you want and the technology that's best for your business's need so what's interesting what you said about the sort of make versus buy that's particularly relevant for the customer identification management because let's say you know I'm buying from Amazon I've got Amazon they know who I am but if I understand it correctly customers now are able to look across brands maybe cohort selling maybe make specific offers analyze the data that's an advantage that you bring that maybe do it yourself doesn't Frank maybe talk about that a little bit sure so really if you think about if you think about a bill versus buying even ten years ago life used to be relatively simple maybe 15 years ago you had a website you as your username your the password you weren't really using you don't have multiple channels you didn't have multiple devices as prevalent you didn't have multiple apps in a lot of cases connected to each other right and in that in that day and age password was fairly secure you weren't doing a lot of personalization with the user data or had a lot of sensitive user data so building a custom identity solution having your customer managing your customers identity yourself was fairly easy now it's becoming more and more hard number one I just talked about the phishing attacks they're an equal number of attacks on the customer identity side right so how do you actually secure this identity how do you actually use things like multi-factor authentication how do you keep up with all the latest in multi-factor authentication touch ID face ID etcetera and that's one the second thing we provide is scale for a number of companies we also provide the ability to scale dramatically which scaling identity and being being able to authenticate someone and keep someone authenticated in real time is actually a very big channel challenge as you get to more and more scale and then the last thing that you mentioned is this ability we provide a single view of the user which is super super powerful because now if you think about one of our customers Albertsons they have multiple different apps there are multiple different digital experiences and he don't have a siloed view of their customer across all these experiences here one identity for your customer that customer uses that one identity to log on to all your digital experiences across all channels and we're able to bring that data back together so if Albertsons wants to say hey somebody shot a in or bought something in one particular app but I know people that buy this particular object like something else that's available in another app they can give a promotion for it or they can give a discomfort that's so that makes a lot of sense I went into the PR platform get our data partner and I looked at which industries are really showing moment so remember this survey focus was run right in the heart of the the Cova 19 pandemic from from mid-march the mid April so it's a good of good current data point and there were four that stood out large companies healthcare and pharma telco which is courses this work-from-home thing and then consumer the example that you just gave from Albertsons is really you know sort of around that consumer there are a lot of industries that obviously been hit airlines restaurants hospitality but but these four really stood out as growth areas despite the kovat 19 pandemic I want to ask you about octane you just got it had your big user conference anything product specific that came out of that that our audience should know about I mean I'm an interested in access gateway I know that wasn't necessarily a new announcement but Cloud Gateway what were the highlights of some of those things from a product stamp yeah of course so we did we did made a very difficult decision to pivot octane virtually and we did this because a number of our customers are given what they're facing with the Kovach pandemic wanted to hear more around news around what our product launches are how they could use this with cetera and really I'd say there are three key product launches that I want to highlight here we had a number of different announcements and it was a very successful conference but the three that are the most relevant here one is we've always talked about being a platform and we've set this for the past four or five years I think and but over the last your and going into the next couple of years we're investing very very heavily in making our platform even more powerful even more extensible even more customizable and so that it can go across the scenarios you described right which is whether you're on Prem with Auto access gateway or you're in the cloud or in some kind of hybrid environment or you using some mix-and-match or work from home people in the office etc so really what we did this year over the last year was deepen our platform footprint and we started releasing the four components available in a platform which we call platform services so we have six components and we were directories that is customizable and and flexible so you can build your own emails except for N equals four users adds information related to them we have an integration platform that we've made available at a deep level where where our customers can use SDKs tools etc to be able to integrate with octa in a platform which we've talked a lot about and then we released three new platform services and one was what we call arc identity engine we had released we talked about this last year and this year we talked about it last year from a customer identity perspective this year we brought her into our workforce identity but also what that does is it allows you a lot more flexibility for situations like we're in right it allows you flexibility to define security policies at the parabola it so you could decide hey for my email I don't want my customers to have to use a multi-factor authentication for but for Salesforce I would definitely want them to use a multi-factor authentication if they're not in the office and it also allows you to have a lot more flexible factor recovery so for example if you forgot your password one of the biggest pain points of co-ed has been the number of helpdesk costs have been rising through the roof the phone calls are ringing nonstop right and one of the biggest reasons for helpdesk are says oh I can't login I got locked out either lost a factor or L forgot my password it helps with that um so that's one set of announcements the second set of announcements was we launched a brand new devices platform and personally this is my personal favorite but really what the devices platform allows you to do is the feature in it that we launched is called Fast Pass and what phosphorous allows you to do is it actually takes phosphorous to the next level it allows you to basically use logging into your device and us understanding the posture of the device and all the user context around you to be able to log you directly dr. then I imagine if you're on a Mac or a iOS device or an Android or a Windows device just being able to face match into your iOS or being able to touch ID into your Windows hello and you're automatically logged into lockdown right that is that and and the way we do that is we have this client on across all these operating systems that can really understand the security posture of the device it can understand of the device is managed if it's safe if it's jailbroken if it's unmanaged it can also connect with multiple signals on the device so if you have an EDR and MDM vendor we can ingest those signals and what they think of the risk we can also ingest signals directly from apps if apps things like um G suite and Salesforce actually track user behavior to determine risk they can pass those signals to us and then we can make a decision on hey we should allow the user to authenticate directly into octa because they've authenticated their device which we can make a decision that says no let's provider let's ask them to step up with a multi-factor authentication or we can say no this is too risky let's deny access and all of this is configurable by the IT admin they can decide the risk levels they're comfortable with they can decide the different risk levels by different apps so that was another major announcement and then and as a product person you rarely ever get the chance to actually increase security and usability at one time which is why it's my favorite you increase both security and usability together now the last one was action was a workflows engine we call it workflows lifecycle management and we it's really we launched a graphical no cord user interface identity is so important so many business processes for our customers there's so many business processes built an identity for example if someone joins her company you usually either have a script that allows them access to the applications they need to or you actually have an IT admin sitting in there trying to manually provide access or when they leave right what workflow lifecycle management or lifecycle management workflows allows you to do is it actually allows you to provide it actually provides you the no core graphical user interface where you can build all these flows so now you don't need someone that knows coding you can even have a business unit so for example I for me in the product for the product org I can have someone say hey building a business process similar it's something you would build in sort of like an iPad and allow everyone that comes in to be able to have access to fig mom because we use pigma a lot right those are the kinds of things you can do and it's super powerful and it takes the ability of our already existing lifecycle management product to the next level well thank you for that that's that summary dear so I want to kind of close with I mean those of you have been following the cube for a while there I think there's some similarities between octa and and and service now that obviously obvious differences but we started following you know ServiceNow pre-ipo is less than a hundred million dollar company and we've seen that company build out as a platform company and that's really what octa is doing here we're talking about a total available market that's yeah probably north of 50 billion so the the question I have he is you know what Frederic and pod started 11 years ago playing on the dynamics coming out of the financial crisis that got us to where we are today now you've got the challenge of you've achieved reached escape velocity now you've got this you know massive growth opportunity in front of you how do you see the product portfolio evolving expanding and I'm also interested in postcode with 19 you know no whiteboards no face-to-face contact not at least not for a while and how you're kind of managing through that but but how can we expect the product portfolio to expand over time what can you share with us so one of the given how pervasive identity has become and given how not just broad but at the same time deep it is there are multiple different places or product portfolio >> and a number of different places were thinking about right so one is you mentioned today we play in workforce identity and customer identity but we haven't even begun to talk about how we might play in consumer right one of the one of the biggest perk matter is consumers and consumers protecting their own identity so often an employee is not using their identity to lock the seals ports and you have an attack on a company and offered an employee actually logging into their Gmail their personal Gmail or their personal or some personal website that bank and they get and their credential get compromised in their fluency impossible so the more protective the more directly consumers the more we indirectly protect both enterprises from work from an employer as well as a customer perspective howdy we're an enterprise company so it doesn't mean that we are going to go direct to consumer there are ways to make employees more secure by what the director calls were so that's one the second thing is managing identities I think we've as the number of applications as the number of technologies are proliferate managing and an employee's life cycle who that governing that the life cycle is not administering etc is also fully stock also becoming very very challenging it was all well and good we'll never can ask and you were on that that's not true anymore an average company uses I think close to 200 applications and then if you broaden back to other resources like infrastructure there's a lot lock more so how do you actually build automated systems that based on the employee status based on their rule based on the project they're on provides them the right access for the right amount of time the third thing you mentioned is and you should pass on this initially but this is the there's this concept of zero security right and the perimeters disappeared how do you provide security so if you look at the industry at large today there are tons of different security vendors trying to provide security at each point if you talk to any see-saw out there it's really really hard to cobble all of this together and one of the things we were trying to do is we're trying to figure out how with our partners we can build a silly end-to-end solution for n - n zero trust for our customers so that's that's another area that the of the product portfolio we're pushing and then finally with the whole digital transformation and customer identity yes more and more companies want their customers to go back online yes more and more customers convenience of being able to interact online with Billy if you think about it the world has changed dramatically over the last three years with privacy laws with things like gdpr CCP etc how do you actually manage your customers obviously you actually manage their content how do you ensure that while you're using all this data from across these apps that we talked about here you and you're using for the first benefit how do you make sure that the minister private is secure and and how do you ensure your customers that's another major area that I think our customers are asking us for helping and so those are areas or so that you should be a big signature the next two to three years some of it will be through partnership that's generally that high-level directions we're headed in wealthy you so much for coming on the key on the key and sharing the product roadmap and some other details about the great company really interested in watching its continued ascendancy good luck in the marketplace and thank you for watching everybody this is Dave Villante you conversations we'll see you next time [Music]

>> Live from Atlanta, Georgia, it's theCUBE! Covering Citrix Synergy Atlanta 2019! Brought to you by Citrix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin here with Keith Townsend, two days, wall-to-wall coverage of Citrix Synergy 2019. Keith and I have been geeking out for two full days now, and speaking of geeking out, I think its going to continue because Christian Reilly is here, back on theCUBE, the vice president and CTO of Citrix. Christian, welcome back! >> Thank you so much, it's been a while. >> It has! >> It really has. >> Well, we hope to make it fun. We have had, like I said, such great conversations with your executives, customers, analysts, everybody is so excited about this obvious pivot that Citrix is making towards the general user. You know, the power users being that 1 percent, and what you guys started off yesterday showing, resonates with everybody. I get it. I want my work day to be far more productive. I want apps and actions brought to me, so I can actually get down to the business of what I was hired to do. And we also are hearing over and over again, how employee experience is now elevated to a c-suite imperative, that is so critical because it directly affects the customer experience. >> Yeah, it's super exciting, isn't it? You know, it's great to watch it all come to life, because, you know, we've been working on this for a number of years behind the scenes and, you know, it's just so great to see all the effort that goes in come out on the big stage. And your right, I mean, we've been very calculated about the approach here. We do a lot of research in trying to understand these problems and these challenges. And, you know, quite frankly, customers are looking for more innovation from Citrix, looking for better ways to work, and, you know, I think we've got a very privileged position in being so important in customer application delivery over the decades that Citrix has been around. And so the, you know, the move, even though it seems like it's a quantum leap, is actually a really natural thing for us to go do, because we've won the trust over three decades of being, you know, the vendor to deliver mission critical apps so this is just an extension of that, but it's, yeah, it's super exciting. >> Yeah, so we've talked about that for the past couple of days. Citrix is a verb within IT. You know, "I'm going to Citrix into the application," or, "Is that on Citrix?" Or, "Is it Citrixed yet?" It is, we commonly understand what it means to be Citrix. But that's something that you guys have built over 30 years, and I think what's really interesting, Dana Gardner, we had him on earlier, he said Citrix is much too modest, there should be a Citrix inside for so many SaaS offerings, so that end-users in end-users understand that the foundational technology for this SaaS service, whether it's some payroll software, or some other third party healthcare solution, is being brought to you. The underlying application didn't have to be rewritten because of Citrix. I think we're at another foundational moment now. What you guys announced yesterday was foundational. I tweeted out as David was talking, saying, "You know what? Citrix is going to be the future of work." Like you know what? We'll follow doing automation. Citrix can't possibly be the- be the future of work. And he announced it, but, I want to try and get you- get this in one answer, hopefully, because it's big, you've been working on this for years, it shows, it's natural for Citrix to say that they're going to go to the next step of integrating different applications because you've been there already. What's the foundational technology? As, you know, when Frame back in 1995 was the foundational technology for virtual applications, what's the foundational capability that you're giving businesses today, that we're going to look back 20 years from now and say, "Obviously, that was the innovation"? >> Yeah, so that's a great question, I think there's a of couple things really, you know, We talked about it in the keynote extensively yesterday about the analytics piece. So, I wouldn't say that analytics is the only thing, but certainly when you think about the way we lined up the analytics conversation around security performance and then productivity. So that's the foundational element, and we're going to look back at that in a few years time and realize that we were very privileged to be in the path of user transactions, and the more you're in the path, the more transactions you get. The more transactions you get, the more source data you get. The more source data you get, the more you can feed the machine learning model, and the more accurate you can be about delivering the context of the workspace, so I think that's super important. The next bit, of course, would be the acquisition that we made of the Sapho technology back in November of 2018. And I think, you know, what you see there in the micros and the micro work flows, is really that big shift from the version 1 of the workspace, which was still very much about the traditional applications, traditional desktops, and then bringing together web and SaaS applications, but we sort of always knew that there was a bigger play, which was really to try and, as PJ talked about yesterday, how do we take work and break it down into atomic units? So we don't think about just the application, we think about the why. Why do people use applications? What is it that they do? And if you think about how that plays out with analytics, the more intelligence that we gather, the more intelligent we make the workspace. So I think with a couple of things, we'll look back at the Sapho acquisition as a key technology piece, but we'll look back at analytics as maybe the thing that helped to be the flywheel to deliver that intelligence within the workspace environment itself. >> And the power that that intelligence has to deliver a personalized experience to each user is huge. If we look at the consumerization and the expectations that we all bring to our business lives we want things to be smart enough to serve up just what I'm looking for. To make my life easier, so that the intelligence and the analytics has huge implications on being able to help companies use their applications better. If I'm having to go in and learn sales floors and try to talk glamor and all these things that as a marketer, I don't need to do, but if I could have technology that's under the covers- under the bonnet, is evaluating that and going to learn, "this is all that she needs to do for her role," how much happier am I going to be? How much more productive am I going to be? It's game-changing. >> Yeah, absolutely, and I think that the most important thing to remember about the whole of the the strategy around analytics, is it's constantly learning, so it's not like we just do it once. And if you think about where that goes along the term, you know, we're talking about, obviously, gathering user transaction data that I talked about. That will help us to generate the most valuable micro applications. But then if you think about that a little bit further on, you know, how do we actually then begin to get analytics on the micros themselves, and even begin to free up more productivity. So there's a continuum here that we see. You know, automation, as you mentioned, will be critical, you know, and if you think about what's happening and the industry in general. You know, robotic process information has skyrocketed to the game as organizations look to kind of do exactly what we're talking about, which is to free up the very scarce human capital to work on things that really matter, not on these mundane tasks. And you know, we talked to lots of customers about this, you know, the notion of how much application do you really use, and you know, it's been quite common, and one of the foundation- I guess foundational components that we talked about of why we did what we did was, we looked at enterprise applications that we were delivering through our traditional technologies, and they were really complex for some things that were really actually quite simple. And of course the Pareto thing holds true there that the 80% of people only want to get something out and 20% of people put something in. So that was obviously a key decision point for us to move ahead with, with the intelligent workspace, the micros that you saw. The other thing that's really interesting that we don't really talk about so much is that from a security perspective as well, being able to deliver just a part of the application actually minimizes the entire sort of attack surface, if you like. Whether that's for, you know, nefarious employees internally, or for true people who want to come in or sort of hack into your systems. The less that we can expose generally, then I think that's better overall. So there's actually some other upsides that we don't necessarily talk about in the context of intelligence, but when we talk to CIOs and we talk to the people in the business who really are interested in these technologies and these solutions, then we tend to expand the conversation a little bit into some things that we don't necessarily talk about all the time. >> Yeah, it's surprising how many questions you guys have answered for me today. I was at SAP, sapphire a couple weeks ago, and they were talking about X data, O data, X data being experienced data, and this is the output of digital transformation, and I was having a really tough time wrapping my head around the concept of X data. And I think this is hopefully something you could further along the discussion. When I think of just the access that Citrix has to this raw data, maybe the only other company that has more user data, or more access to user data, would be Microsoft via Windows. But Citrix presents SAP, which 80% of the world's transactions run through, is presented via Citrix a good majority of the time. Your CRM solutions and cloud-based options and sales forces presented again, through Citrix, so you're collecting a ton of data, as customers, you know, say, "okay, what's the account balance out of SAP, let me put it into this CRM solution and sales force". You're capturing that x data. How do you make sense of it? I think is the question, this is where the AI comes in. From a person looking at the process, and they come to Citrix and say, "Christian, you guys have the X data. Help us understand how that X data translates into business productivity. How do I personalize the experience for a individual use?" >> Yeah, absolutely, so I'll give you an example, you know, CTOs like to have a vision, right? So we'll talk a little about the vision. So I'll give you a relatively straight- forward example. So, we tend to see used cases around reviews and approvals and those kinds of things, whether it's expense reports or PTO requests, all the things that we've typically shown in the keynotes and the various demos that we've done as we've grown the solution. So here is what we kind of think about, so let's say, for example, that you have an employee. That employee submits expense reports on a fairly frequent basis and they tend to submit them for under $500. You may get to the point where you say, "actually, why do I keep approving these, because my level of trust with the employee is high, the dollar values of the individual reports is relatively low". So why would the system not just handle that and automatically approve them, until something was an anomaly. So if one came in that was $750, $1000, then I would get an alert. So I think when you talk about the X data, absolutely. The interaction with the X data is really where we see the value from the Citrix perspective, because we can learn how you actually deal with those notifications and those actions. So if there's an example of a micro application which gives you an expense report from let's say SAP Concur, and you never actually open it, you just click the approve button, then is there a real reason for you to continue to see the opportunity to open it? Because, you know, as I've said, the level of trust is high, the dollar value is low, and I could get productivity back that way, by actually looking at it from a sort of, "why should I actually approve this in the traditional way? I'll let the system take care of it until there's something that exceeds the threshold that I've learned that you're comfortable with". >> What- oh, sorry Keith, I was going to say, on that front though, where are enterprise companies in terms of letting that control go to the intelligence in the system? I mean how many times have we all submitted expense reports and maybe some of us like me go to Starbucks twice on the same day, hey, it happens, and you get rejection because it's the exact same dollar amount, and it's wasting all these cycles. But where is the appetite and maybe the trust from some of those larger organizations that culturally say somebody in procurement or finance has to click on every single funding and evaluate every single line item? >> Yeah, so I think the, sort of the beauty of what we've built here, certainly with what you saw yesterday and what we've been talking about at the show here. We're not actually changing any existing business rules or business work flow and gen components, right? So I think that's a really interesting point for us to bring up and to make sure that everybody understands, you know, right now, in the version that we're talking about for release later this year, you know, we're actually honoring most of the business rules and the work flows that are in the system of records. So that could be, you know, the HR system, the finance system, all the ERP system or whatever. So you know, I think when audit perspective, then we're good from that perspective, because you know, when we actually submit things back into the system of record from the micro apps, we're doing it on behalf of the user. So the transactions are still valid as if they were coming from the native experience. So I think that's great that we don't mess with any of that, because I think the higher, you know, we kind of make the hurdles for people to adopt by, and then, you know, whether it's cultural or whether it's regulatory, that obviously, you know, there's a downside to that. So, I think that's a good sort of first pass for us. I would suspect that as we go through this a little bit later though, there's going to be some potentially interesting questions that come up about, certainly of highly regulated environments about, you know, the legality of a robot, or digital assistant, or some kind of, you know, ancillary system being able to submit and do things on your behalf. So, you know, that's- this is not a GDPR thing by the way, or anything of that nature, it's more a, you know, if something was to happen in the system that wasn't intended, who's responsible? Is it the robot or is it the individual that's allowed the robot to work on their behalf? So I think there will be some interesting questions that come up along those lines, but I think, you know, in the v1 we're honoring the business rules, we're honoring the business logic and the work flow. And so, you know, I'm expecting that most customers will look at this and say, "yeah, I kind of get it," and you know, it's more valuable than it is a problem. That's certainly the goal. >> So let's talk about scale of this new foundational capability. Like I can easily see this working inside of your existing set of VDI products. You have visibility into the analytic data, but at some point, you're going to have enough data that the VDI isn't needed to create these work flows and these solutions. I can see this actually freeing up desktops for some employees where the only reason why they ever needed a desktop because they had to go on to Concur or the time management solution. If I do 40 hours every week for 52 weeks, I don't need to log into a portal to do that. How tied to your existing set of products is this capability? Is this something that, from a total addressable market that you- whether it's a mobile app or mobile first app that you guys can ingest this type of capability into? >> Yeah, so you know, as you know well, Kieth, we've been talking about the death of the PC in the industry for a decade, right? And it's- the reality is that most customers have an application portfolio that's heavily reliant on Windows. Now, having said that, there are obviously cases- and we look at sort of, some of the, what we call the customer jobs to be done, okay? Which is a Harvard business thing that came from Clayton Christianson. And it's a really interesting way of making sure that the innovations that we bring are actually addressing things that customers need to get done within their own environments. So if you take a used case, let's say it was a field technician. So you're going out, you're going to fix a faulty gas meter, or you're going to go out and perform some kind of maintenance work. It's highly likely that you're going to use a mobile device. And so, what we showed yesterday with the mobile version of the intelligent experience, what we show with the work space assistant, absolutely. I see used cases where we can give them instant productivity. So you know to pull and to push data into the systems of record, where the underlying operating system on the mobile device is kind of academic. But there will certainly be used cases where VDI or physical Windows desktops will be around for a very long time. So I think the value that we have is making sure that all those user transactions go through the workspace one way or another, so that helps us with the analytics piece. But I think I'll look a little bit further out, you know, again, we showed some demos of it yesterday, in one of the CTO breakout sessions that we had. The real ultimate goal is to think about the work space overall as more of an experience that will evolve. It's not necessarily an app, an app is one way to consume it, but we want to build a platform that can consume and be consumed by other things. So whether that's Microsoft teams that we showed yesterday, whether that becomes slack, Facebook for work, or whether it's an integrated voice assistant within, you know, an Apple device, or a Microsoft device, or a Google device, or a Samsung device. See, the value of that from a choice perspective is that we really then don't demand what the customers use, and ultimately their end use. So I think when we get a little bit further along in the thinking on the platform itself, it opens up endless possibilities to interact with the information you need. And it's not predicated upon any operating system because hopefully we can be ubiquitous. >> So, Citrix has over 400,000 customers worldwide. I think I read 98-99% of the Fortune 500, the Fortune 100, intelligence experience goes generally available later on this year, there's some customers in beta. What are you looking forward to as 2019 continues, coming off the high that is Citrix Synergy 2019? >> Well, you know, so like I said at the start here, I've been working on this thing with, frankly, the brilliant team we have here at Citrix for just about three years, so I wouldn't say it was quite stealth, but we've gone through these kind of programmatic changes internally. I'm looking for- I'm most looking forward to when customers understand the power of what we're going to give them with the builder. So the builder, again, is something we showed yesterday, but, you know, you think about the approach that we have is that we're going to, obviously, help customers to get productive and to get going with the intelligent experience by creating these out with the box micro apps and micro work flows for many of the most popular SaaS applications. The real big thing I'm looking forward to is when people can actually take the builder that we've developed and give it to their line of business people and say, "hey, you can create as many micro apps as you think are necessary within the constructs of your business process to enable your people". So that, to me, is kind of like, going to be the ultimate wow, when people say, "actually, I can give this to a person who is capable of creating a Pivot Table in Microsoft Excel," as an example. And they can then actually use the technologies that we provide to create the micros and micro work flows for their own part of the business without the help of traditional development. I think that's going to be huge and I can't wait until we've got, you know, the first examples of people who have said, "hey, you've made my life easier, I can't work without Citrix". >> While businesses can be built on that, the new Excel uh, Citrix builder, the new Excel. >> I hope so, I hope so. >> Well, we'll all be excited to- and be watching with close eyes. Christian, thank you for joining Kieth and me on theCUBE, but Synergy 2019! >> Thank you so much. >> Our pleasure. For Kieth Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Citrix Synergy 2019. Thanks for watching! (electronic music)