(bright music plays) >> Welcome to theCUBE's Special Program Series: Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. Very pleased to welcome our next guest, Sherry Karamdashti, sales director at AWS Startups. Sherry, welcome to the program. It's great to have you today. >> Thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Tell me a little bit about you, a little bit about your role at AWS Startups. >> Great. Yes, um, I run the startup sales in the US uh, for AWS. I've joined AWS really early in the cloud journey, um, that was in 2013, so I'm almost 10 years there, all in sales leadership. So I've been able to work with really amazing customers, mostly, you know, startups in the beginning cause those were our predominantly original customers. And now obviously going to, the business has grown to, you know, other enterprises and, and really have seen some great things in my 10 year journey. >> Lisa: So you're almost a 10 year Amazonian. Congratulations on your impending anniversary. Talk to me a little bit about your career path. Did you always know you wanted to be in tech? Did you get into tech from a different field? What does that look like? >> Yeah, yes. I was always interested in technology. I was a electrical engineer in my undergrad and I pretty much quickly realized I didn't want to write code or, you know, design integrated circuits. There really wasn't an internet back then. I think the engineering students had emails but we emailed each other, nobody else had them. And I just got into a program actually at Intel and it was a technical sales program and so they recruited folks, engineering students, put us through some rotations and various um, reps. And then we rolled out to the field and I became a sales, technical sales person. >> Got it. So you were a EE from the start, kind of always knew you wanted to be in tech but then now as a sales leader, talk to me a little bit about that path and what are some of your recommendations for people that might be starting out in tech or interested and don't really know how to navigate their career? >> Yeah, I think, you know, I think for me I was a little bit of luck and timing and you know, some intelligence of picking the right path. And I think really just around your skill sets, right? And I had a technical background, I was a people person. Relationships and connections were something that were important to me. And really just figuring out kind of how to match your skill sets to what you, what you actually enjoy doing. You know, again, I wasn't looking for a career in sales leadership but it was definitely something I quickly embraced. You know, I enjoy developing people, working with our customers to help them solve their challenges and various technology companies I've worked for. And as far as navigating, I think having, I always tell people, do the best job you can in your current role and be looking at what you want next. Because I have a lot of people that come to me and say, I want to do this next. And I'm like, well, you have to really be doing excellent in what you're doing today, so that you get to have supporters and allies to help sponsor you in other, other things. >> Absolutely. Mentors and sponsors are so critical. Often when I ask people this question, they talk about things like, raise your hand, ask a question. Let me pay attention to your point about the things that you're interested in and start navigating a pathway that way. But also the importance of having mentors, having sponsors who you can share your ideas with, share your dreams with is also something that I think is quite helpful for those that are navigating maybe early in their tech careers or maybe they're midway through and there's a change they want to make but they just aren't aware of what else is out there. >> Sherry: Yep, absolutely. And I think I've been really lucky to have some great allies and mentors along the way. >> So you've had some great successes. I want to now kind of pivot to understanding some of the successes that you've had, where you've helped customers internally, externally solve problems where it's related to cloud. >> Yeah, I mean, yeah, so, you know, for 10 years I've been doing that, you know, early in my career, like I thought it was, most of our customers were startups and it was really a great place to be because AWS at the time, very early helped democratize access to the cloud, right? And so there were these startups who didn't have a lot of capital or people. And so it helped bring that flexibility and agility to startups that maybe, you know, most enterprises have the resources to do. And you know, and I, throughout my career, I've worked with really interesting companies. Right now I've just met with the CEO, Jill Stelfox at Panzura who really outlined, you know, why AWS is great and what, what it's helped, how it had helped them achieve things. And it's really, her thing is that AWS is really helps them build and deploy at scale so that they're able to reach their customer, you know, more broadly. And it really helps them with the backend functions like deploying products, you know, maintaining that security and these user controls that become part of the AWS solutions, so they don't have to worry about it. You know, I've had interesting startups that are embracing machine learning in various ways, right? They, I had an autonomous vehicle startup that uses the advanced driving, the assisted driving system to predict and, you know, whether it's, you know, changing lanes or helping, you know, automate those things and they want to make sure that they provide reliability to their car manufacturers. And there's many, many others, you know, in the healthcare industry that we've helped bring really, ultimately helping them deploy and so that they can innovate and bring market, bring products to market faster. >> That's what it's all about. Innovation, being able to bring products to market faster, being able to pivot quickly when change happens. I literally just today saw that interview that Jill did from Panzura on AWS and the relationship there. I've got a number of friends who've just starting their, their new jobs at Panzura. So it's so great to see just the tech ecosystem being so intertwined and interconnected. I love that so much. I want to understand now from your perspective, switching gears a bit, talking about diversity thought diversity, diversity of people, what, you know, we talk about this Sherry, so often intact DE&I is, it's a very prominent topic of conversation but there's still some challenges there. Talk to me about some of the things that you've seen with respect to diversity that are still challenges present and what are some of your recommendations for organizations to employ to get some of those challenges scraped out of the way? >> Yeah, I mean, I was an engineer and you know, (laughs) in the early nineties, engineering student in the early nineties. So I was the one of 10 females in my, in my, in my school, in my degree area. So, you know, being underrepresented was nothing new. And I wish that we weren't here talking about that, right? It's like, it doesn't matter if I'm a female tech leader, I'm just a tech leader, but we're not quite there yet, right? And, and I think maybe in the next generation can have that luxury and that we have to do that, you know, make that investment and effort today, so that we are helping the path. Now I tell people, you know, you have to, it takes time, right? You can't just go and say, "I'm going to hire a tech sales leader", right? And I started very early and developed my career there. So you have to invest and give yourself time to help develop, you know, underrepresented folks. And ultimately, I think you have to be intentional and you have to, you know, focus on, you know, maybe looking or having different criteria that maybe you haven't typically had, to bring that diverse perspective. Because if you're always looking for the same thing, that's what you'll get. And so I encourage my leaders at their hiring and recruiting to really, you know, look at one developing the pipeline of candidates, right? To bring on board, but also be open to, you know, the profile or the skill sets and things that they're looking for. >> You hit on three things there, Sherry, in all the interviews for this series that I've done, I'm hearing consistently where it comes to diversity, it's the investment that organizations need to make. It's the intention that organizations and leaders need to have and finding that talent. And it's the, the ability to be open-minded to looking for different thoughts, different skills, maybe going outside of the comfort zone to bring in diverse perspectives. So I love what you just said. It very much aligns with all the female leaders that we've been talking to in terms of this is what's needed next to make diversity, to actually bring diversity to life throughout organizations and not just have it as a talking point on an agenda. >> Yep, absolutely. And yeah, and honestly like I, my team is, I take pride in having a very diverse team. I have a very gender diverse team, and I would say it was intentional, but sometimes it's not. (laughs) So. >> Lisa: No, that's true. >> Right? And sometimes it's, you know, people gravitate towards, you know, female leaders, so they want to come work for me but also really it's just we have to create an environment where different people want to come in and feel like they can, you know, have a voice and contribute and grow, you know, in their career. >> Absolutely. People need to see what they can be, be able to feel that I'm going to be included in this conversation. I can raise my hand, I can ask a question. That's not a stupid question, it's probably a question that many other people in the room or on, on the virtual meeting have as well. So that, that ability to bring that diversity and that inclusion into roles whether it's we're talking about AI, machine learning, cloud is so important and it really will impact the direction that we go in. And so, for example, impact the direction that cloud goes in, in terms of how cloud's going to evolve, how your role is going to evolve. What are some of the things that you see there in terms of the next steps in cloud and in your role? >> Yeah, I think really, you know, in my role in dealing with various customers, I think succeeding with data in today's world really requires taking an end to end view. For organization today, people are drowning in their data and don't how to make, use it to make decisions. And we are, we are seeing an intersection of data and machine learning and analytics and databases. So I think we, um, all have to get, uh, smart about it and, you know, help our customers, you know, work their way through this journey. >> It is a journey and you know, every company these days has to be a data company. They've got to be a tech company, they have to be a software company, however you want to describe it but data is gold to an organization and I always think it's whether it's my grocery store or a retailer or a manufacturer or an automotive company, they have to be able to glean insights from data as quickly as possible to make business decisions that push their businesses forward. So that's one of the things that I love is that every company these days has to be a data company but they have to have the right tools, the right people, the right processes in place to be able to extract that value so that they can jump ahead of their competition. >> Exactly. And it's a competitive need. So I think that's, that's our job, that's our next, next big role is to help our, help our customers, you know, align that journey. >> Absolutely and be successful. Last question for you is if you look back over the last three to five years, what are some of the biggest changes in tech, in the tech workforce that you've seen and in innovation and what excites you about the direction that we're going in? >> Yeah, you know, I meet with startup founders and you know, you read their backgrounds or you get to know them and, you know, there were some engineering student at, you know, X, Y, Z and I was like, what if I were an engineer like five years ago? What could I have accomplished, right? So I am seeing this evolution of, you know, things or problems that are, smart people are solving whether it's machine learning like you said, whether it's biosciences. And so, you know, I'm really seeing things coming out of universities, like research things that are really coming to light and solving real world problems. So, so that's a big trend, right? When I, when I was a, you know, when I, in the, you know, years ago, I know you couldn't do much with, you know, satellite or telecommunications like you can with some of the topics that are coming out of school now. I'm also seeing investment in early talent. So, you know, companies that, you know, like you said, you, you know, you're finding really great experienced smart people. So you know, AWS, you know, on the sales and solution architect team, you know, we are investing in early, early talent, in early career talent. So, you know, and they're accomplishing great things. So I'm seeing companies like AWS embrace that a lot more. >> I love that, investing early in talent is so going to be so beneficial to companies in every industry. I'm excited, as are you, to see what happens in the future with that so much potential. So much potential. Sherry, thank you so much for joining me on the program today, talking about what your role is, what you're doing, how you've been helping organizations succeed with cloud, what you see coming down the road and your recommendations for organizations to be more diverse. We so appreciate your time and your insights. >> It was my pleasure. Thank you. >> Excellent. For Sherry Karamdashti, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's Special Program Series: Women of the Cloud, brought to you by AWS. Thanks for watching. (soft music plays)

>>Yeah, yeah, yeah, >>already. Welcome back, Cube alum Dave Volante. We're covering the transformation of Oracle Consulting. Specifically focused on really, what is what I consider a rebirth from really staff augmentation to a much more strategic partner for customers and with me to explore that a little bit of Sherry Latin back. She is the senior vice president of Cloud Key accounts at Oracle, and we're also joined by Pat McGovern. Who's the group? EVP for the North American Cloud strategy. Also Oracle folks, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on. >>Thanks >>for having us. >>You're welcome. So, Sheri, you're out talking to customers a lot. Um, I'm curious as to what that conversation is like specifically as it relates to consulting. I talked about the rebirth of Oracle consulting. You? Probably not, you know, earlier, years ago, leading with staff augmentation. That's not strategic. But are you bringing Oracle consulting now into the conversation? What's that conversation like? >>Absolutely. In fact, every conversation we have relating to our cloud strategy. Oracle consultants part and parcel to that they are not staff augmentation. They're actually the digital transformation arm of what we do around cloud. So it's been really interesting to see what they've been able to do in terms of changing the narrative of what we do it Oracle from just a software company to really transform into. I thought provider >>and Chris I'm interested in Sorry, pat. I'm interested in your title group. VP Cloud strategy. Right? So gravity, obviously a fundamental part of any customer interaction. But what are you seeing? What underscores customer strategies? What are the business drivers for them right now? One of the catalysts that are driving their their technology spending decisions? >>Yeah, it's a great question, and I think a lot of it depends upon, especially in the times that we're in now depends upon the industry that they're in. But, um, most importantly, what we're seeing is right now is durability. So we want to make sure that the customers of our Oracle customers and others have an opportunity to have disaster recovery business continuity. Um, in this stage, right now, it's less about expansion per se. Unless in an industry that's uniquely positioned for that more about durability, of the overall strategy that when we look at that, your ability, we think about kind of the core missions we think about, um so the back office operations and continuity and then we think about transformational revenue generation. And so when we partner with us, yes, we want to make sure that we have both of those concepts in mind. So >>I want to ask you both. Um, you know, it was a lot of we have a lot of talk about in our community about cloud first. Um, big oracle is sort of put forth the gauntlet of Look, we're we're leading now with cloud. You both have cloud in your title. But obviously being cloud first is is more than that sharing. What if you could talk about your customers and your cloud journey and share with us and convince us that you are cloud first? >>That's a great question. And in fact, I joined Oracle about 11 months ago, was in the industry for about 25 years and enjoying simply because I believe in what Oracle is doing around this journey. We're in our second generation of cloud capabilities, and that's purposeful. And we do that because we realized that where cloud started and where we are today, are two totally different things. And so we have capabilities around security viability extensions with autonomous that other cloud providers just simply don't have built these ground up to make sure that we can run Oracle for blitz databases and applications far better than any other cloud provider. So that's super exciting time you got Oracle, and it's absolutely fascinating what our customers are going to a doctor. Apology? >>Yes, so s so pat. I wanna ask you, Ah, sort of similar question. How fundamental is, uh, you know, Cloud to organizations, strategies, and obviously everybody is a cloud strategy. But I'm specifically asking as it relates to mission critical workloads because, let's face it, that's been the hardest to move into the cloud. So when you're out talking to customers about their strategy and obviously dovetailing at the Oracle strategy, how do you align those two views? >>Yeah, so it's actually really fascinating question. So first I think I would respond in the following away. When I think about our portfolio, I don't necessarily say cloud First, I say customer first, and I really want the customer to make a decision based upon a deployment model that makes sense for that. Think of the customer whether it's a regulated industry or the public sector or, you know, any sort of compliance considerations. So Oracle's one of the very few, uh, you know, enterprise Last Mile providers that has obviously on premise capabilities as well. And so 99% of the cases that we see, with the exception of some of the sort of startup S and B five folks that are born in the cloud, we're dealing with the hybrid cloud model anyway. And so that's the kind of the first order priorities what's right for the customer. And let's make sure that we get the appropriate I'm all for that customer in terms of enterprise essentially the workloads that we have, whether it's cloud or on Prem or enterprise workloads. And those were kind of separated into two buckets, one of the core mission of the revenue generation side. And what would be mission critical sort of the back office, the oracles historically tremendous at the back office side, running finance, running operations, running supply chain, you know, doing those things that are mission critical on the core mission side. That's really where we're starting to focus now, which is getting out into the revenue generation. The mission of the entity with things like high performance. Compute on making sure that we have an ability to support our customers on both sides of those. >>You got a follow up question on strategy. You talked about hybrid. And you know the hybrid. Clearly, riel, whatever the big buzzword today is multi cloud. My question is, is multi cloud the actual strategy of customers or is it actually just an outcome of multi vendor and and shadow I t. But what if you could address that? Yeah, >>So another great question. So I think if you're on one side of the fence, you call it a strategy on maybe risk mitigation on the other side of the fence, you could say, you know, I don't When people talk about multi cloud, they tend to say, Hey, you know that one of the big names that you hear, whether it's Oracle or aws, um you know Microsoft etcetera? Uh huh. But the reality is anybody who's running those are also running, you know, hundreds of father for SAS applications. Whether the department allowed sort of that shadow, I t. I think in part you call it a strategy. In part, you'd say it's just sort of propagation of cloud capabilities that have sprung up, Do you think? Based on, you know, security integration, performance considerations as well as sort of the general expansiveness of enterprise class capabilities? You probably see if you're niche players over time and you'll see kind of the broader bets happening around enterprise class capabilities. >>So, Sheri, you're relatively new to the oracle of just under a year. But you've been around the industry, and you know that the chairman of a horrible loves technology you love speeds and feeds and shares that Oracle Open World but and, you know or was a product company. But the conversation is changing. You kind of alluded to that before. It's not just about feature function speeds and feeds. Maybe you could address that. And where does Oracle consulting fit in that equation? >>Right, So it kind of detail of what Pat was just saying around the hybrid notion. We firmly believe that every customer is gonna wanna have different options for what they do in the cloud and based on the providers. So we want. We've partnered with Microsoft. We actually can interconnect are clouds together to provide that kind of flexibility to our customers. Yeah, it is a key component of that Azure customers and talk about. I'm going to stop integration. Our partnership or consultant is the arm that does that work for us. So we are seeing them come, come about in a much different way in a way that's different, you know? And other consulting, you know, staff augmentation firms. >>Well, that Microsoft is interesting to us. Uh, actually, a lot of people in the press might have put food. It saw that and said, Wow, this is This is pretty curious both from a strategy standpoint, but it really. But I think it's premature on Oracle. So you got the Number one database. Everybody knows Oracle's got the native get this hyper cloud partner now saying, Yeah, we can run. You're kind of seamlessly. I know that's an overused word, but what is the reaction been in the customer base? That deal? >>It's phenomenal. It's infinite, especially for a lot of our retailers that are being Microsoft Cloud companies. They're seeing that they can put their Microsoft applications in the Microsoft class. They can run the Oracle databases in the Oracle Cloud and Inter Operability is tremendous and they're not any sort of service as it relates to putting, you know, using a multi cloud strategy. And for us, we're seeing that as a differentiator for us in the market. >>So what's the strategy behind that? I want you to talk about that a little bit, because, I mean, you know, it was it was an interesting chess move by Oracle you got, you know, Amazon's out there doing their thing, and there's plenty of Oracle running on on AWS. But there's a lot of head bashing going on, and then you guys partner up with Microsoft that caught a lot of people off guard. Can you help us, You know, give us a little color on the strategy behind that? >>Yeah, so I think that there's a There's a technical component of the strategy which Sherry alluded to, but I also think that there's a cultural component of the strategy and so, you know, obviously Microsoft has been around for a long time. ESX has Oracle that they have a substantial on from this friend. But as much as any other company on the Lana, probably Microsoft has this hybrid strategy just like Oracle. And so, as we look at, you know, the partner ecosystem and what makes sense the partner and how can we diversify the workloads like Microsoft is one of those companies? That's just sort of, Ah, very vertical industry focused great portfolio products. I'm slightly differentiated in terms of the space that they would buy in versus an Oracle. As you pointed out, So, uh, cultural standpoint, I think it's quite a good fit for us to find, you know, as we look at partners to find a partner like Microsoft to work with an integrated workloads. It >>was kind of a judo move for both companies in my mind, because you see a lot of companies that are predominantly on Prem, just like Oracle has been historically saying with Microsoft and basically kind of going on to hybrid, obviously they want on Prem and multi Cloud, which is okay, we're going to span multiple clouds. But both Oracle Now and Microsoft, with its hybrid strategy, as I call it, a judo move because essentially you're doing things that maybe some of the other cloud providers can't do because of your own prim present. So you're turning what may have been perceived as a disadvantage, you know, a legacy business. You know, it's funny in our business legacies of >>a >>bad word, but but it's usually as good connotations. But turning that on Prem legacy into an advantage. Cherry. Is that a reasonable premise that I'm putting forth and you having conversations with customers in that regard? >>Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a very fair statement to make, because we do have again. I oversee the top 120 Oracle's and in that they have years and years of investment in Oracle databases in Oracle applications and for us agreeable by the capabilities to move that to your cloud. Integrate with other things such as Microsoft, you know, applications and whatnot is huge issue, and no other cloud provider can say that. So I do think that good to see that we are uniquely differentiated. >>I want to ask you about lock in because that's always the criticism of Oracle. I talked to a lot of work with customers in particular exit data. People say, Why would anybody buy exit data locks in what you by AWS and why would you buy any product. You, uh, disk drive a lock in. So So I want to ask you about that because my research shows that while there's a there's a segment of customers that are very much concerned about that, and that's a primary concern you lock in. It's actually a small percentage, maybe 10 15%. Most of the customers that I to talk to the Oracle world will say, Listen, I'm willing to risk that lock in If if If the business value overwhelms that And again I ask you, Is that is that something that is a viable conversation with your customers? Do you see the same thing? I mean, I see it as kind of a strong indication. If they kind of poo poo the lock in pieces, they look at the business value that I'm driving from my organization. I wonder if you could >>Yes. So I think value is the crux of the conversation. And if you look at sort of the legacy business, just put it that for a second. You know that what people would call legacy, uh, the US is a tremendous asset because we have 400,000 customers or so around the world. Those are folks that we're giving choice. You can run on Prem. You can run in the cloud. You can find an engineered systems or into the data box behind your firewall. You can run it as a data cloud at customer, which is behind your firewall, but leveraging Native Public Cloud services. Or you can run that same capability and exit out of service. So really again, that deployment model choice about what, folks? You how folks wanna consume their services in terms of lock in. I don't think it's so much lock in, as you point out, is value if a customer's deriving value from a given solution, especially in the cloud world, they're going to consume right, and if they're going to consume the probability and higher likelihood is that they'll expand as well. So I look it. I essentially look at consumption in the cloud world being value that's been realized, and once you have value that's been realized, it's critical conversation. I don't I don't view it is lock. In fact, there's a lot of fun, mobility and portability that can occur when you talk about hybrid cloud multi cloud environments. I view it much more is identifying the value and then executing against that value so that folks consume cloud services. >>Why, Cheri, why are customers wanting to put mission critical workloads in the cloud? Is it the same sort of cloud, agility and cost, etcetera, etcetera. I mean, why not just leave it on Prem and keep it protected and maybe spend a little bit more? What's the driver for moving mission Critical workloads? >>Well, I think it's it's dependent upon you know what? The initiatives are in the company right now. They're looking for cost reduction for top line growth, either looking for different capabilities around security that the cloud provides. The great thing about what we do is we have optimized all of our work lives but our database and our applications into our class of providing additional capabilities. But we're also seeing a lot more. So we, uh we say all the time you put us to the test, let us, you know, quantify what we would look like in the cloud with our workloads versus competitors, er and we will guarantee that will save you a lot of money. So I think that a lot of it has to do with one. It starts with potentially cost reduction, but then they start seeing additional business value driven out of and back to Oracle Consulting. What Oracle consultant provides in terms of business value in the cloud is transformative for our customers. >>Well, that this is valued to is a component of the business case that has to be risk mitigation. And, you know, if you just want to buy some object storage, you know, probably not gonna work is not going to be my first call. But if I have a mission critical set of workloads that are running on Oracle, I'm really going to think twice about migrating that, you know, somewhere else I'm either gonna leave it on, Prem, or I'm gonna look look hard that Oracle's same same approach. And we've done some research on this that the risk and cost of actually migrating to a new environment is is potentially really detrimental to companies. I wonder if you could talk about how that plays into your and customers strategies. >>Yeah, and I think, you know, is, um, reference in what? What Kerry said. So it depends on the choice of the customer, but what I would say is if a customer is driving a lot of value on premise, um, that might look something like exists ts and the cloud for D. R. So they're actually have a disaster recovery plan that's file based. I think Cloud is one of these sort of unicorn conversations. Everybody, everybody wants to have a cloud conversation. And so, making sure that that cloud of conversation in the context of the customer, um, is what's crucial for us. And so, you know, as you look at mission critical workloads, those are the workloads that we want. We want either core mission, our mission critical. It's just object storage or just something, you know, that people want to spin up and spin down. Yeah, that's interesting to Oracle, but for us, as a B two b, your B two b enterprise class, um, software company, we want to be in your core mission or in your back office, you know, helping you execute against that mission. >>So share here, going in with a stacked deck. I mean, you're not going in trying to go head to head with the hyper scale you going in saying, Look, this is our wheelhouse, and I think I'm hearing in your wheelhouse you'll take anybody on. But I wonder if you could sort of affirm that and maybe talk about how you lead in these customer conversations, >>right? Well, normally, our entry point is one. Understanding with business drivers are right. It has to be a business led recession. Really? Isn't a technology starting point right? It really is around what business problems we're trying to solve and how can we help you solve them? And because we know your environments, we know what data bases air deployed in. Other public. What is your lover? Dji to run your business? We can, I think, successfully position ourselves very, very competitively against other cloud providers. And I think that is something that resonated incredibly well with our customers and back. >>Yes, So it seems like Oracle Consulting is an important ingredient as part of that strategy, Cause again, If it was, you know, five years ago it was just stack staff augmentation. That's really not a compelling conversation to have with customers. But if you can come in with A with the mindset of strategic partner you're bringing in Deloitte, we've been talking to some of their professionals about the elevate program with with Oracle, that is, that's a nice lever that your you can take advantage of. >>Absolutely. And in fact, we've seen that that is a huge opportunity. For one, the partnership with Deloitte is incredibly strategic. We also partner with other companies like Accenture and DXC and IBM Candidly and Oracle is consulting is incredibly flexible in terms of what kind of partnerships and the line they have with our customers is really based. Yeah, >>I want to end on a growth path and maybe talk about everyone wants to weaken. Cloud Cloud is the growth business. You look at Oracle's business, you know everybody's business. This cloud is growing. Everything else is either hanging on or declining. So it's all about growth. How do you drive growth? What what is Cloud's role in terms of, you know, the growth strategy and maybe had some color to that narrative? >>Yeah, so from a from an execution standpoint, how we drive growth is we have a kind of a core part capability, its value volume, velocity burger. Those are very simplistic approach that we take in each of our line of businesses and then across each of the segments of the market size pass and I as an engineer systems as well. The values crucial If you're not, you're not selling with value and kind of positioning value at the up front part of it. You know, the customers may book, but it won't consume and don't consume. They're not going to renew. So ensuring that customers are realizing value from the process is essential. And then with volume and velocity, you know, our legacy business was much more kind of chunkier, so you could focus on big quarter ends or a big year end on. You had impending events through, you know, started compliance considerations or contract negotiations, etcetera. We have to be in a volume and velocity business in order to scale out and also the average transaction sizes. Historically, although it's growing for us, >>it >>is slightly lower than what a license on premise capability would be. As you'd expect, um, from, uh, from a product perspective, I think, you know, we were sort of a luxury of riches around the autonomous capabilities. If you haven't so that's something that's incredibly unique. Oracle. You know, the Economist database and all the economist services that we're rolling out and that Autonomous gets back to what we talked about earlier, around security, around performance, around scale, ability and all these things. Ultimately, we're positioning the capabilities of the future, but we're positioning them today. So we're a market leader in this space. You're not only is the Oracle database. As you pointed out, the market leader were market leaders here. If you found a bunch of the SAS areas, this eponymous segment of the market is crucial for us and crucial to our growth. >>Yeah, it really isn't enabling. What I've been saying. That you it's almost compulsory for Oracle to participate and compete in the cloud because it gives you that automation and that that scale. But you're talking about also setting up, you know, some future advantages of being able to take advantage of data. The combination of data ai and Cloud is the new superpower with within the industry. Sherry, I want O end on you. 11 months in an oracle. Let's say things work out great. You're here 234 years down the road. You look back. What does success look like? >>Success looks like everyone of our customers moving to the Oracle cloud and see incredible business value from that partnering with Oracle Consulting. That's what my successful curious >>guys. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube where we've been we've been tracking this transformation of Oracle consulting and one of the things that's very clear. There was Oracle's obviously serious about cloud, but also seriously about bringing in new talent and new skill sets really not only transform Oracle but help transform your customers. So thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. >>Thanks so much. >>You bet. Thank you. >>All right. Thank you. Everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube. We'll see you next time. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(energetic music) >> Announcer: Live from New Orleans, Louisiana, it's The Cube! Covering .NEXT conference, 2018, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage here of Nutanix .NEXT 2018, I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host, Keith Townsend. Happy to welcome to the program two first time guests. We have Sherry Lautenbach who's the SVP of America Sales with Nutanix and Inder Sidhu who is the EVP of Global Customer Success, also with Nutanix. Sherry and Inder, thanks for joining us. >> Sherry: Thank you. >> Alright, so Sherry, first of all, you were up on stage this morning celebrating customers, we actually had the chance yesterday to nominate one of the, to interview one of the, nominees there and talked about what that meant to them and it was really talked about, you know, it's validation, where you know, we're trying something, we think we went out beyond what other people are doing and getting that validation back was just, they were really excited just to be nominated, so, you know, take us inside. >> Yeah, so first of all, we had hundreds of nominations, so it was super hard to choose and break it down to the finalists and then of course the winners, but for us, it was about innovation about cloud trailblazers, you know, dev ops, lots of different types of awards this year, and recognizing things that customers are doing to innovate with Nutanix. The best award we did have was Art.Heart give-back award and that, you know, it says a lot about our company that we focus on what companies are doing to better the communities they live in and the world in general, so. >> Yeah, and JetBlue is the winner there. >> Absolutely. >> Have to say, it makes me even happier to talk about, I have status with JetBlue, cause I fly to a lot of shows. >> Yeah, I can imagine Doug, they've been a great partner of ours, a great spokesperson, and they've really leveraged our technology to innovate with their company, so it's been a, it was a great morning. >> Alright, Inder, we watched Nutanix since the early days, discussion about NPS scores, and when you can't, when you come to an event like this, you can't help but feel the passion of the customers - over 5500 people here. Talk to us about what your role is, your engagement with customers, that whole customer success, and what that means. >> Yeah, customer success in my mind, Stu, is probably the single most important thing that we do at Nutanix, and the reason is because customers drive everything that the company does; it drives our employee behavior, it drives our partner behavior, it drives our product roadmaps. We're an outside-in company, fundamentally, and therefore, driving the customer success holistically, not just in terms of support after they might have an issue, but holistically, end-to-end over the entire life cycle is very very important for us. So, we're creating an organization, an investment, reporting all the way to the CEO to drive exactly that and we're very excited about that. >> Right, and I call it customer obsession, so I've been at Nutanix six months, the first day I showed up to headquarters, they gave me my laptop, and then they brought me up to the customer support area and said, "This is why we're so successful, because we are maniacally focused on ensuring our customers are being delivered value every day." And with a focus on our NPS four daily. So, for me, that was super impressive, and we don't let up on it. >> Stu: You know, Sherry, and I love some of the pieces. You were talking about innovation, talking about developers-- >> Sherry: Yes. >> We've been talking to a lot of customers about their digital transformation. It's not just, "Oh, okay, I'm re-platforming," it's more than that, talking about, what one of the customers said is, you know, "Business as IT." >> Right, no absolutely. So, digital transformation is clearly the buzzword, but it is all about what are companies doing to transform their businesses to become digital. And, Dheeraj always says, you know, "To be in that digital transformation journey is all about what you do to transform not only your IT operations, but the business." And the business drives what digital transformation does, absolutely. And it's not just creating things online or creating a presence, but its actually innovating yourself to differentiate yourself from your competition. We've seen that time and time again on what Amazon did to bookstores or what Netflix did to Blockbuster. And those types of things are the innovation that drives the change. >> Keith: So, Inder, speaking of innovation-- >> Inder: Mmhmm. >> Nutanix digitally transformed themselves into a software company. You guys made a lot of announcements, a lot of new products in the pipeline, a lot of new features available: GA as of the show. Nutanix has become a bigger company, valuation over nine billion dollars, as you get bigger, it's hard to keep that NPS score over 90. Where's the focus and how do you do it as Nutanix grows? >> You know one of the things, I think, as we become a big company in terms of size and scale, in terms of our heart and in terms of our spirit, we're very much a small company. I go tell customers, there is going to be times when we'll screw up. But you'll never find any company that's going to work harder than us to drive your success. And that's where the intent is, that's where the focus is. We're going to do whatever it takes from an holistic end-to-end customer perspective. We're assigning customer success managers to some of our largest customers so we can proactively engage with them, especially along three dimensions. We're not like a lot of other technology companies, where you just try to sell them technology, we're around three things: we want to make sure make sure that our customers can be organizationally proficient, we want to make sure they're operationally efficient and we want to make sure that they're financially accountable. All three of those dimensions have to do with stuff that's important to them. As we make them successful along those dimensions, automatically the technology starts to get adopted and they start seeing some benefits. >> So, Sherry, let's talk about that customer success manager. What are they empowered to do, like, if there's a problem, how do they make it right? >> Well that's a great question, they're empowered to do whatever it takes on behalf of the customer to ensure that one, they're deploying our technology well and they're finding great value in it. It's interesting, I've spoken to many customers at this conference and so many of them have said, you know, using Nutanix has changed my career, my career trajectory, and the business value I provide the organization, not just from an IT standpoint, but on the business side. And so for me, there's no greater compliment when our customers, they're cheering for us, they're rooting for us cause we're helping to transform what they do every day. So the customer success manager is just going to be an overlap in terms of ensuring and driving that success as we get deeper and deeper into these customers. >> And what we're going to do is we're going to start out with customer success managers more at the top of the pyramid, some of the largest accounts, but remember, we still have hundreds and hundreds of account team members from Sherry's team and others; SEs, all of whom provide an even greater leverage, and then extending all the way through our partners. So we have a high-touch model at the top with CSMs, we have a medium-touch model with SEs and account teams and insight sales reps and partners in the middle, and on the bottom of the pyramid, we've got a tech-touch model, where we're going to actually leverage our technology with self-service portals and so on with emails and webinars and training and material that can actually drive their end-to-end success, very focused on that. >> Stu: Sherry, I'm wondering if you can dig in some of the organizational pieces that Inder was talking about. From your customers as you move up the food chain with the products, what are you hearing from your various constituencies inside of companies? >> Inside of our customers? >> Stu: Inside of the customers, yes. >> Right, so, well we cover, in terms of an organizational size, we cover all different types of customers in various ways. We have dedicated account people to our largest accounts alongside with SEs of course. And we leverage our partners, though, in our channel and everything we do, so they're considered an extension of our sales force, which I think is truly valuable and really important that we ensure that they drive success with our customers. >> Anything special you're hearing when you get up to the C-Suite, pain points, that they're hearing more than you heard in the architect or admin standpoint? >> Yeah, no, they're looking for more of, you know, helping to rationalize cloud: how do I get to cloud, what's the right balance in terms of hybrid, on-prem, off-prem, and really, understanding the business value and drivers around it, not just cost efficiency. It's about transforming different areas of their business and many of the C-Suite customers that I speak to really are approaching it many different ways, dependent on what is the key pain point and business problem they're trying to solve. >> Inder: So, two things I'd say to add to Sherry's answer there is that what we see is customers wanting to engage more architecturally rather than an individual point product through a consultative process that is more around business outcomes. So it's not something necessarily new, but it's a little bit new for Nutanix, cause we've historically engaged at the technology level, and now you're finding more and more. Of the Fortune 50, we have 33. Of the Fortune 100, we have 66. So we're actually starting to get to really large customers in a big way. They want a deeper, architectural, all-in engagement, and as our portfolio starts to expand from just HCI to Flow and Beam and Xi and all of those, they're saying gosh, I mean I just literally ran into a CIO in the elevator, coming down this morning, and he said gosh, we were thinking about doing NSX but now that I came here and I heard about Flow and I heard about Xi, I think I'm going to go all-in with you guys, I'm going to put that thing on ice, and really work with you guys on this. Literally, unsolicited, in the elevator, this morning. >> Keith: That's impressive. So as we, on all those lines of growth, you guys have a huge user community: 70,000 participants, and this morning, Dr. Brennan, I'm sorry, Dr. Brené Brown talked about having difficult conversations around diversity. I want to first give you guys kudos, this is from an optics perspective been one of the most diverse technology conferences I've attended from an entertainment to the onstage presence to the keynote speakers, awesome job. As you guys are working towards having a more diverse user set, how are you helping your user community be successful along with their careers from a diversity perspective and whereas a career development perspective. >> Great question, and yes, I'm super proud of the diversity, things we're doing in the company. Just yesterday, I hosted a women's IT luncheon, so we celebrated the women around Nutanix so that was all about building a network of all of our customers: female and male, they were included too in this luncheon. And we had over 130 people, spent time, I said let's exchange business cards, let's talk about some of the challenges you face. We had one of our board members, Sue Bostrom share some very personal stories about challenges she's faced and opportunities to help advance her career, gave a great perspective on that. We also had the CEO of FlyWheel, she talked about failing fast and pivoting, and that to me was great little lessons and tidbits that we can provide our customers to say let's empower you to be even better and to build your network even more effectively. >> And if I can add to that, I think, what we're always looking for is a diversity of ideas, and those diversity of ideas is not just a nice-to-have, it's a must-have because it actually drives positive business outcomes from us when we start to represent what our community of users and what our community of customers is. And that diversity of ideas comes from people who have had a diversity of backgrounds, across a wide range of dimensions of diversity, and that's what we're really looking for. We're not necessarily solving for outcomes, we want to solve for opportunity, and make sure that everybody has that equal opportunity to engage and participate, and the more we do that, the richer we get, the more powerful we get, the more alive we become, I think, with diversity. >> Right, I mean, you think about that, you know, our traditional influencer was in the data center side, but we've found now in terms of diversity of our portfolio, the developer is going to be just as important of an influencer for Nutanix, so we're looking at it from not only our customers and who but what they do. >> Stu: Inder, I was wondering if you could get some colla rosso on the vertical side of things, we know you started early very much in the public sector phase, had a lot of strength there, so speak to how else you're growing in the vertical space. >> Inder: Yeah, one of the things we're doing is as we get into bigger and larger customers, as you know, we have 9000 customers, adding a thousand every quarter, we have about 642 after global 2000 customers and so, as we get into those, those customers want us to be able to talk to them in their language, around their issue. So I'll give you a great example, you know, recently, we hired a guy, his name is Don Mims out of Baylor Scott & White as a Customer Success Manager. Here's a guy who's done everything the Nutanix products, implemented them all through Baylor Scott & White, 7000 beds, 48 hospitals, and here's a guy who's implemented Nutanix, he's implemented AHV, he's implemented Epic. I got 40 other customers in the US alone who want to implement Epic and AHV in the healthcare sector among the provider community, and we're going to go towards those customers with that kind of verticalized expertise. Same thing around financial services, same thing around retail. I mean, when you look at retail, Walmart, Home Depot, Tractor Supply Company, Nordstrom, Target, you know, Best Buy, Kohls, we've got a wide range of customers who give us insight into their operations, and when we engage with them, when you're talking to a retailer, you're talking about dollars per square foot, you're talking about same store sales, you're talking about a flexible workforce and then you translate that into IT, which translates into a hybrid public-private flexible infrastructure. So as we have these conversations, they're very engaging, and we are starting to verticalize if you will, in terms of our overlay expertise. Sales force of course is going to be geographic first, because of the proximity that's required, but we're going to have overlay both in the services and in the sales organization that's going to be very noticeable as well. >> And we have found that there are certain geographies and areas that we can verticalize in the field, so, for example, Tennessee or in California, we can build healthcare verticals which has been very effective cause customers want us to talk in their language, understand what critical business applications they can leverage with Nutanix. So we're trying to mirror, as best we can, the vertical point of view in the field. >> Public sector of course is the first vertical that gets carved out for many companies, service providers, the second, we've already got public sector carved out, and one of the things, great kudos to Sherry and her team, you were proactive, Sherry, with Brad Rhodes in kind of carving out healthcare as a dedicated sales region in the West where people have nowhere to hide, you just live and die by the healthcare success, customer success. >> Well, and also, the familiarity on the use cases, right, cause a lot of the use cases are repeatable, so it just makes a lot of sense for us to bring teams together that can go to market that way. >> Keith: So, let's talk about the speed of Nutanix. I love the story, the impromptu meeting, CIO in an elevator, you guys are wowing me with the technologies in ways I never thought of. Let's talk about the other end of it. Where are customers pushing you, saying, "You know what, you guys need to move faster." You have one customer that's on NSX, you have a bunch that are looking way past that. >> Sherry: Right, no that's a great question, and the great thing about Nutanix is we really don't say no a lot, I mean, we've got to be very thoughtful in what we sign up for, but we will innovate and collaborate with customers in every instance. So what is it that you need, you need a support on a platform? We'll give you the right timeframe to do it, but yeah, we're going to do what we can to deliver on that, so, there is a lot that's coming at us from a speed standpoint with our customers and the demands that they have but I think that's a testament to the adoption and the delight that they have of using Nutanix and wanting to expand that in their enterprise. >> Inder: And I think, to some extent, Keith, I think your question is more about where are we perhaps falling short a little bit, and I'll tell you one area where perhaps we could do better, which is for support of a wider array of platforms. So for example, when we go to Asia Pacific, a lot of our customers are telling us, gosh you got support for Dell or Lenovo or IBM, etc., but what about other platforms that are local, Hitachi or Fujitsu or Inspira or Avia, etc.? So we're going to get very disciplined and structured around it, we don't want to over commit and let anybody down, because extending support to multiple platforms is not trivial, but we want to make sure that when we commit, we say what we'll do and we do what we say. And that's a guarantee that we'd like to provide to our customers. >> Stu: Inder and Sherry, I want to give you both an opportunity: just final takeaways you want your customers to know about Nutanix as they leave the show this year. >> Well, we'd love for more customers to come onboard, one thing I've seen with our customers that are here is that they love our technology, they're delighted. We've helped change jobs and careers with many of our customers and for me that's a huge privilege. >> I'd just say that customer success is the single most important thing for us, for our customers, we might make a mistake every once in a while, but you will never find anybody who works harder on your behalf. We've got the energy, we've got the fire in the belly, we've got the agility, and we're going to do everything that it takes to make you successful, no matter what. Period, end of story. So we're all in, we hope you can be all in with us as well. >> Alright, Inder and Sherry, obviously the passion is here from you, from your customers and the team. Thanks so much for joining us today. For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, lots more coverage here coming from Nutanix.NEXT, New Orleans, 2018. Thanks for watching The Cube. >> Thank you. (electronic music)

>> Problem you solved. >> Sure, John, it's great to be here and Aviatrix is a cloud-native networking software company. And we help enterprises scale their private networks into the public cloud. And that's a really a hard challenge that people are struggling with. Everyone has a cloud strategy. And so our software lets you have simplified scalability, connectivity for any type of architecture, whether it be hybrid or otherwise, as well as end-to-end network security. >> And so what's the core problem that you solve? I mean, is it networking? Is it? >> Sherry: Yeah. >> Sherry? >> Yes, so what we have seen from our customers, you know, when they first started their hybrid cloud, they would always go to the cloud providers being AWS, Azure, or Google, and they set up their first encrypted tunnel to set up a hybrid environment. But as they grow, either by the need of, you know, the growing billing that they need to have chargeback, they need to set up separate environment for their different line of business, or they have the need to do segmentation for application security. So as all these different reasons for growing the environments, and to build a hybrid cloud for a growing environment's actually very challenging. Typically it takes weeks, our customer telling us, to set up one environment. To set up one environment. And today's traditional solution requires an edge router change for every time they set up the environment. And edge router change requires change of control. And if something wrong, it's business disruption. So a lot of customers don't want to do something like that, they're always nervous about it. So we bringing the solution that not only reduce the deployment time from weeks to minutes, but also deployed in a way that completely mitigate the risk, the business disruption, and allow them to scale, allow them to do chargeback, allow them to bring different line of business to a cloud very easily. >> So you spent 13 years at Cisco. >> Yes. >> So you know a little bit about edge routers and these. >> Yes. >> You know, change-overs are serious business. >> Sherry: Yes. >> What specific use case are you guys addressing. And just walk me through a potential customer situation. >> Sherry: Yes. >> Why they would use you, is it all software, is there hardware involved? Can you just drill down on that? >> Yeah, so we deploy a virtual appliance. And the specific problem, I'll give you an example. We have a customer that, they have developers, and developers go to CIO, says, oh, I want my own environment because of difficulty challenge of setting network. You know, compute and storage are very dynamic, very easy to set up, but network go through ITs and go through the change of controls on the edge router, right. So it's very controlling environment. >> John: It's like going to the airport, you got to take your shoes off. >> Yes, that's right. >> Put your stuff through the conveyor belt. >> Sherry: Exactly. >> So it's a little like that process. >> So they end up having very few environments, and their issues with accidentally deleting each other's instances, and their issues about they're getting $150,000 a month bill, and they don't know who spent what. >> It's a pain in the butt. >> Pain in the butt. >> It's expensive. >> Yes. There's no accountability. >> And it takes a lot longer. >> Difficulty. >> Very difficult, there's no accountability. So they surely, the business owners want to see, you know, for a particular project, how much money it takes to develop, to maintain, to deploy, right? And without separate accounts and environments, there's no way of doing that. So we solve that problem, that's one of the examples. >> So you stand up networks, basically? >> Yes, we stand up environments and stand up the network. And the part of Steven mentioned cloud-native is that cloud is actually a different playground, it's a different stack that we believe that requires a new generation of products, innovation. The old, you know, tradition of routers virtualized the putting the cloud is completely unaware of the underlying infrastructure. Remember these cloud providers, they provide underlying infrastructure. You have to play into it in order to be functional. And most of these traditional vendors, they put their stuff all there and even if you configure them, they are completely not functional until you set up the routing table. You know how to do, to view the connectivity to the rest of the environment so that part we take care of that. That's one of the cloud-native. We use the APIs. We use their services to view a scalable solution. >> Timing, timing's everything with the startup. You guy's are coming into this in an interesting time. You've got, you know, sort of getting to the cloud. Amazon a couple of years ago said everything is a virtual private cloud, right? So, I've got to understand VPNs. You've now got IT organizations who are accepting that the public cloud's got to be part of their strategy. Hybrid cloud. I've got to be able to, I could start in the cloud but I want to come back and talk. You guys are kind of coming at this at kind of the right time. And we look at how fast everything's moving here. You then augment that by saying you don't have to just, you know, learn all this new technology, we'll sort of help you with it. We'll make it a SAS service, we'll make it easy to install. Like, talk about, you know, timing, what are the trends that are driving what you guys are doing? >> Yeah, that's a great point, Brian. From the timing perspective, I'd add to that. There's a lot of competition in the public cloud space. >> Brian: Sure. >> With places like Azure and Google really coming on strong. >> Brian: Yeah. >> And our software is cloud-native. That means we've built it for each of those clouds, and allows companies to have a non-lock-in multi-cloud strategy. And because it's been built in with each of those companies' APIs, it actually is much simpler to now scale those networks in the public cloud. >> Brian: Right. >> And so, the timing is really perfect, and we see that there's a lot of interest for scaling new networks. >> Right. What you guys to is sort of, I mean, networking, you know, Sherri and I know this from Cisco days, but it is somewhat fragmented. What you do on the edge of your networks and the core of your networks are very different. You guys aren't getting into the mock of kind of core data center SDN. This is very much, how do I get to the edge of a cloud, how do I get to multiple clouds, how do I keep it secure so there's a security play. Like, who's the buyer? Who's the, you know, what's the thought process? Is it the developers? Is it security teams? Who's, you know, who's your audience. >> Yeah, so our audience are the folks that are either cloud operations or network architect type of individuals. They are looking to leverage the public cloud. >> Brian: Right. >> And so it's true. We don't focus in on the data center 'cause we think that's already been handled to a large degree. >> Brian: Right. But once you start talking about public cloud, it is a different environment. It's a completely new stack. >> Brian: Yeah. >> And so our software is makes that hybrid connectivity as well as end-to-end networking across. >> So the first one was CloudOps. What was the other one? Network operations? >> Network operations, network architects. >> Architects, yeah. >> It's got to be very policy driven, you know, 'cause you could be dealing with an individual person, you could be dealing with a group of people, multiple accounts at a single customer. Like, talk a little bit about how you got to think about policy and what's changing. >> Steven: Yeah. >> In that space. >> So as people started with the cloud, typically it was all a flat network, right? And we see just as in the data center, there was micro-segmentation needing to happen. That's segmentation is taking place very rapidly in the cloud. Therefore, you need to have policies around who can access, and what resources can access which LAN in places, you know? >> Companies like Cisco, these guys, they have existing networks. So it seems that they'd be an obvious choice to go into this area. Is it because they're just so big and you guys are nimble? Or is it the competitive strategy? What's the competitive strike that you guys are making here? >> The traditional network equipment vendors, their model is around instant spaced appliances. And so you can virtualize that software and put in the cloud. The difference, though, with our software is that it's software defined. So it's designed for the cloud. And so our instances understand where it is and use the APIs. So, therefore, it's a full, it's a full network as opposed to just disparate machines that have to be configured manually. >> Sherry: Right. >> And so we're trying to lower the bar just like Docker's democratizing containers, we're looking to democratize the network in the cloud. >> And I think we see a lot of the incumbents sort of want to, they want to slow you down from using the cloud. They'd like you to stay on premise. They'd like you to sort of keep the status quo. You know, you're fighting inertia doing that. We're seeing developers have more say, people want access to resources faster. Like, you guys are part of that trend that say, hey, look, when you want to stop doing the status quo, we're there to help you, you know, help you do that. >> Sherry: Yes, yeah. >> I kind of see the cloud is in the second phase, and that's really, first phase was more about, test and development, fairly uncritical projects, or a ways to experiment. Now that's be proven, so. >> So what's your plan? You've got some cash in the bank. You guys are hiring, I see your startup. Take us through the day in the life. What's the plan for next year? Just keep on building product obviously because of the product market. Any other big plans? Well, we're scaling the organization. We've also, at DockerCon, launched a new product for the community here. We're glad to be part of the Docker Ecosystem, and it's called Project Skyhook. And it solves the problem of allowing developers to access those containers with policy. That's simply missing there today. As you said, Brian, policy is bigger. >> And you guys are targeting the policy aspect specifically. >> Policy user based access with multi-factor authentication. That sounds correct. >> Yeah. So that is actually, so we talked about hybrid cloud. Another big part of our product is actually for the cloud or the internet-borne companies where every resource, everything is in the cloud, but you still need to access them, and you want to access them with, you know, a much stronger security pasture, with a brand new access control, and also provide end to end. Like Brian was mentioning, why is the need for this product? There many needs because of segmentation, because of chargeback, because of the growing presence, because of multi-regions where you want to bring your application to the user. So the environments are actually really increasing, so to view the end to end connectivity from use to end instance is really another big part of our product, it's another big chunk of our customers. Now we're just bringing that access control and policy into containers, which like Steven says, it's completely missing today. >> Well, congratulations. You guys are filling a great void. Thanks for coming on theCUBE hot start up Aviatrix, Steven and Sherry co-founders of Aviatrix. We're here at DockerCon Live talking to all the smartest people we can, from startups to VCs, to the CEO Docker and many more here on theCube, I'm John Furrier with Brian Gracely. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back. (gentle music)

>>From around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john ferrier host of the cube. Got a great story here. Navigating Covid 19 with Watson advertising and weather channel conversations. Sherry back steen. Who's the gM of Watson advertising in the weather company. Sherry, thanks for coming on the cube. My favorite part of IBM think is to talk about the tech and also the weather company innovations. Thanks for coming on. >>Hi, happy to be here, john >>So COVID-19 obviously some impact for people that working at home. Um normally you guys have been doing a lot of innovation around weather weather data um certainly huge part of it. Right. And so lots been changing with AI and the weather company and IBM so let's first start before we jump in, just a little background about what your team has created because a lot of fascinating things here. Go ahead. >>Yeah. So when the pandemic started, you know we looked at the data that we were seeing and of course in weather accuracy and accurate data is really important trusted data. And so we created a COVID-19 hub on our weather channel app and on weather.com. And essentially what it was is an aggregated area where consumers could get the most up to date information on covid cases, deaths in their area, trends see heat maps uh information from the C. D. C. And what was unique about it. It was to a local level. Right so state level information is helpful but we know that consumers uh me included. I need information around what's happening around me. And so we were able to bring this down to a county level which we thought was really helpful for consumers >>share as watching sports on tv. And recently, a few months ago, the Masters was on and you saw people getting back into real life, It's almost like a weather forecast. Now. You want to know what's going on in the pandemic. People are sharing that. They're getting the vaccine. Um, really interesting. And so I want to understand how this all came together with you guys. Is was it something that has a weather data, a bunch of geeks saying, hey, we should do this for companies, but take us to the thought process with their team. Was it like you saw this as value? How did you get to this? Because this is an interesting user benefit. I want to know the weather, I want to know if it's safe. These are kind of a psychology of a user expectation. How did you guys connect the dots here for this project? >>Well, we certainly do have a very passionate team of people, um some weather geeks included, um and you're absolutely right watching the Masters a few months ago was amazing to see, you know, some sense of normality happening here. But you know, we looked at, you know, IBM, the weather company, like, how do we help during this pandemic? And when we thought about it, we looked at there's an amazing gap of information. And as the weather channel, you know, what we do is bring together data, give people insights and help them make decisions with that. And so it was really part of our mission. It's always been that way to give information to keep people safe. And so all we did is took a different data set and provided the same thing. And so in this case, the covid data set, which we actually had to, you know, aggregate from different sources whether it was the C. D. C. The World Health Organization uh State governments or county governments to provide this to consumers. But it was really really natural for us because we know what consumers want. You know we all want information around where we live, right? And then we want to see like where our friends live, where our relatives live to make sure that they're okay. And then that enables people to make the decisions that are right for their family. And so it was really really natural for us to do that. And then of course we have the technology to be able to scale to hundreds of millions of people. Which is really important. >>It's not obvious until you actually think about that. It's so obvious. Congratulations. What a great innovation. What were the biggest challenges you guys had to face and how did you overcome it? Because I'm curious. I see you've got a lot of, lot of large scale data dealing with diversity of data with weather. What was the challenges with Covid? And how did you overcome it? >>So again, without a doubt it was the data because you're looking at one, we wanted that county level data. So you're looking at multiple sources. So how do we aggregate this data? So first finding that trusted source that that we could use. But then how do you pull it in in an automated way? And the challenge was it with the State Department, the county departments that data came in all kinds of formats. Some counties used maps, some use charts, some use pds to get that information. So we had to pull all this unstructured data, uh, and then that data was updated at different times. So some counties did it twice a day, some did it once day, different time zones. So that really made it challenging. And so then, you know, so what we did is this is where the power of A I really helps because a I can take all of that data, bring in and organize it and then we could put it back out to the consumer in a very digestible way. And so we were able to do that. We built an automated pipeline around that so we can make sure that it was updated. It was fresh and timely, which was really important. But without a doubt looking at that structured data and unstructured data and really helping it to make sense to the consumer was the biggest challenge. And what's interesting about it. Normally it would take us months to do something like that. I challenged the team to say we don't have months, we have days. They turned that around in eight days, which was just an amazing herculean feat. But that's really just the power of, as you said, passionate people coming together to do something so meaningful. >>I love the COVID-19 success stories when people rally around their passion and also their expertise. What was the technology to the team used? Because the theme here at IBM think is transformation innovation, scale. How did you move so fast to make that happen? >>So we move fast by our Ai capabilities and then using IBM cloud and so really there's four key components are like four teams that worked on it. So first there was the weather company team um and because we are a consumer division of IBM, we know what consumers want. So we understand the user experience and the design, but we also know how to build an A. P. I. That can scale because you're talking about being able to scale not only in a weather platform. So in the midst of covid weather still happened, so we still had severe weather record breaking hurricane season. And so those A. P. S. Have to scale to that volume. Then the second team was the AI team. So that used the Watson AI team mixed with the weather Ai team to again bring in that data to organize that data. Um And we used Watson NLP so natural natural language processing in order to create that automated pipeline. Then we had the corralled infrastructure so that platform team that built that architecture and that data repository on IBM cloud. And then the last team was our data privacy office. So making sure that that data was trusted that we have permission to use it uh and just know really that data governance. So it's all of that technology and all of those teams coming together to build this hub for consumers. Um And it worked I mean we would have about four million consumers looking at that hub every single day. Um and even like a year later we still have a couple million people that access that information. So it's really kind of become more like the weather checking the weather's come that daily habit. >>That's awesome. And I gotta I gotta imagine that these discoveries and innovations that was part of this transformation at scale have helped other ways outside the pandemic and you share how this is connected to um other benefits outside the pandemic. >>Yeah so absolutely um you know ai for businesses part of IBM strategy and so really helping organizations to help predict um you know to help take workloads and automate them. So they're high valued employees can work on you know other work. And also you know to bring that personalization to customers. You know, it's really a i when I look at it for my own part of a IBM with the weather company, three things where I'm using this technology. So the first one is around advertising. So the advertising industry is at a really um you know, pivotal part right now, a lot of turmoil and challenges because of privacy legislation because big tech companies are um you know, getting rid of tracking pixels that we normally use to drive the business. So we've created a suite of AI solutions for publishers for you know, different players within the ad tech space, um which is really important because it protects the open web, so like getting covid information or weather information, all of that is free information to the public. We just ask that you underwrite it by seeing advertising so we can keep it free. So those products protect the open red. So really, really important. Then on the consumer side of my business, within the weather channel, we actually used Watson Ai um to connect health with weather. So we know that there's that connection, some health um you know, issues that people have can be impacted by weather, like allergies and flew. So we've actually used Watson Ai to build a um Risk of flu that goes 15 days out. So we can tell people in your local area this one actually goes down to the zip code level, um the risk of flu in your area or the risk of allergies. So help to manage your symptoms, take your prescription. So, um that's a really interesting way. We're using AI and of course weather dot com and our apps are on IBM cloud, so we have this strong infrastructure to support that. And then lastly, you know, our weather forecasting has always been rooted in a i you take 100 different weather models, you apply ai to that to get the best and most accurate forecasts that you deliver. Um and so we are using these technologies every day to, you know, move our business forward and to provide, you know, weather services for people. >>I just love the automation and as users have smartphones and more instrumentation on their bodies, whether it's wearables, people will plan their day around the weather, and retail shops will have a benefit knowing what the stock and or not have on hand and how to adjust that. This, the classic edge computing paradigm, fascinating impact. You wouldn't think about that, but that's a pretty big deal. People are planning >>around >>the weather data and making that available is critical. >>Oh, absolutely. You know, every business needs a weather strategy because whether it impacts your supply chain, um agriculture, should I be watering today or not even around, you know, um, if you think about energy and power lines, you know, the vegetation growth over power lines can bring power lines down and it's a disruption, you know, to customers and power. So there's just when you start thinking about it, you're like, wow, whether really impacts every business, um, not to say just consumers in general and their daily lives. >>And uh, and there's a lot of cloud scale to that can help companies whether it's um be part of a better planet or smarter planet as it's been called, and help with with global warming. I mean, you think about this is all kind of been contextually relevant now more than ever. Super exciting. Um Great stuff. I want to get your take on outside of um the IBM response to the pandemic more broadly outside of the weather. What are you guys doing um to help? Are you guys doing anything else with industry? How could you talk a little bit more about IBM s response more broadly to the pandemic? >>Yeah so IBM has been you know working with government academia, industry is really from the beginning uh in several different ways. Um you know the first one of the first things we did is it opened up our intellectual property. So R. I. P. And our technology our supercomputing To help researchers really try to understand COVID-19 some of the treatments and possible cures so that's been really beneficial as it relates to that. Um Some other things though, that we're doing as well is we created a chat bots that companies and clients could use and this chat but could either be used to help train teachers because they have to work remotely or help other workers as well. Um and also the chatbots was helping as companies started to re enter back to the workforce and getting back to the office. So the chatbots been really helpful there. Um and then, you know, one of the things that we've been doing on the advertising side is we actually have helped the ad council with their vaccine campaign. Um It's up to you is the name of the campaign and we delivered a ad unit that can dynamically assemble a creative in real time to make sure that the right message was getting out the right time to the right person. So it's really helped to maximize that campaign to reach people um and encourage them if it's the right thing for them, you know where the vaccines are available. Um and that you know, they could take those. So a lot of great work that's going on within IBM. Um and actually the most recent thing just actually in the past month is we release the Digital Health Pass in cooperation with the state of new york. Um and this is a fantastic tool because it is a way for individuals to keep their private information around their vaccines or you know, some of the Covid test they've been having on a mobile device that's secure and we think that this is going to be really important as cities start to reopen um to have that information easily accessible. >>Uh sure, great insight, um great innovation navigating Covid 19 a lot of innovation transformation at IBM and obviously Watson and the weather company using AI and also, you know, when we come out of Covid post, post Covid as real life comes back, we're still going to be impacted. We're gonna have new innovations, new expectations, tracking, understanding what's going on, not just the weather. So thanks >>for absolutely great >>work. Um, awesome. Thank you. >>Great. Thanks john good to see you. >>Okay. This is the cubes coverage of IBM. Think I'm john for a host of the cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>> Announcer: From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's the CUBE, covering Empowering the Autonomous Enterprise brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Everybody welcome back to the CUBE, I'm Dave Vellante. We're covering the transformation of Oracle Consulting specifically focused on really what is, what I consider a rebirth from really staff augmentation to a much more strategic partner for customers. And with me to explore that a little bit is Sherry Lautenbach. She's the Senior Vice President of Cloud Key Accounts at Oracle, and we're also joined by Pat Mungovan, who's a Group VP for the North American Cloud Strategy also at Oracle. Folks welcome to the CUBE, thanks for comin' on. >> Thanks Dave. >> Yeah, thanks for havin' us. >> You're welcome. So Sherry, you're out talkin' to customers a lot, and I'm curious as to what that conversation is like specifically as it relates to consulting. Are you bringing Oracle Consulting now into the conversation? What's that conversation like? >> Absolutely, in fact every conversation we have relating to our cloud strategy, Oracle Consulting is part and parcel to that. And they are not staff augmentation, they are actually the digital transformation arm of what we do around cloud. So it's been really interesting to see what they've been able to do in terms of changing the narrative of what we do at Oracle, from just a software company to really transforming to a cloud provider. >> Strategy, obviously a fundamental part of any customer interaction, but what are you seeing? What underscores customer strategies? What are the business drivers for them right now? What are the catalysts that are driving their technology spending decision? >> I think a lot of it depends upon, especially in the times that we're in now, depends upon the industry that they're in, but most importantly, what we're seeing is right now is durability. So we want to make sure that the customers have, you know our Oracle customers and others, have an opportunity to have a disaster recovery, business continuity. In this stage right now it's less about expansion per se, unless they're in an industry that's uniquely positioned for that, and more about durability of the overall strategy. So when we look at that durability, we think about kind of two core missions. We think about sort of back office operations and continuity, and then we think about transformational revenue generation, and so when we partner with OCS, we want to make sure that we have both of those concepts in mind. >> You know we have a lot of talk about, in our community, about cloud first, and I think Oracle has sort of put forth the gauntlet of look we're leading now with cloud. You both have cloud in your title, but obviously being cloud first is more than that. Sherry, I wonder if you could talk about your customers in your cloud journey and share with us and kind of convince us that you are cloud first. >> I joined Oracle about 11 months ago, was in the industry for about 25 years, and I joined specifically because I believe in what Oracle is doing around this cloud journey. We are in our second generation of cloud capabilities and that's purposeful. And we do that because we realize that where cloud started and where we are today are two totally different things, and so we have capabilities around security, viability, extensions with autonomous that other cloud providers just simply don't have. And we built these from the ground up to ensure that we can run Oracle workloads, databases, and applications far better than any other cloud provider. So it's a super exciting time to be at Oracle, and it's absolutely fascinating what our customers are doing to adopt our technology. >> Pat, I want to ask you a sort of similar question, how fundamental is cloud to organization strategies, obviously everybody has a cloud strategy, but I'm specifically asking as it relates to mission critical workloads because, let's face it, that's been the hardest to move into the cloud. So when you're out talking to customers about their strategy, and obviously dovetailing it to Oracle's strategy, how do you align those? >> So first I think I would respond in the following way. When I think about our portfolio, I don't necessarily say cloud first, I say customer first, and I really want the customer to make a decision based upon a deployment model that makes sense for that particular customer, whether it's a regulated industry, or the public sector, or you know any sort of compliance considerations. So Oracle is one of the very few enterprise-class cloud Providers that has obviously on-premise capabilities as well, and so 99% of the cases that we see, with the exception of some of the sort of startup S and B type folks that are born in the cloud, we're dealing with the hybrid cloud model anyway. And so that's kind of the first order of priority is what's right for the customer and let's make sure that we get the appropriate deployment model for that customer. In terms of enterprise, essentially the workloads that we have, whether it's cloud or on prem, are enterprise workloads, and those are kind of separated into two buckets. One would be core mission, sort of the revenue generation side, and one would be mission critical, sort of the back office side. So Oracle is historically tremendous at the back office side, you know, running finance, running operations, running the supply chain, you know, doing those things that are mission critical. On the core mission side, that's really where we're starting to focus now, which is getting out into the revenue generation, the mission of the entity, with things like high performance computing and making sure that we have an ability to support our customers on both sides of the spectrum. >> All right Sherry, why are customers wanting to put mission critical workloads in the cloud? Is it the same sort of cloud agility and cost, et cetera, et cetera? I mean, why not just leave it on prem and keep it protected and maybe spend a little bit more? What's the driver for moving mission critical workloads into the cloud? >> Well, I think it's dependent upon what the initiatives are in the company, right? If they're looking for cost reduction are the looking for top line growth, are they looking for different capabilities around security that the cloud can provide? The great thing about what we do is we have optimized all of our workloads, both our database and our applications, into our cloud, so we're providing additional capabilities, but we're also saving a lot of money. So we say all the time that, you know, put us to the test, let us quantify what we would look like in the cloud with our workloads versus a competitor, and we will guarantee that we'll save you a lot of money. So I think that a lot of it has to do with one, it starts with essentially cost reduction but then they start seeing additional business value driven out of and back to Oracle Consulting. What Oracle Consulting provides in terms of the business value in the cloud is transformative for our customers. >> Talk about kind of how you lead in these customer conversations. >> Right, well normally our entry point is one, understanding what the business drivers are, right. It has to be a business led discussion. It really isn't a technology starter point, right? It really is around what business problems are you trying to solve and how can we help you solve them? And because we know your environments, we know what databases are deployed and where they're deployed, what Oracle applications you're leveraging to run your business, we can, I think, successfully position ourselves very, very competitively against other cloud providers. And I think that has been something that has resonated incredibly well with our customers and in fact, our largest customer. >> Yeah, so it seems like Oracle Consulting is an important ingredient as part of that strategy 'cause again, if it was, you know, five years ago, and it was just staff augmentation that's really not a compelling conversation to have with customers. But if you can come in with a mindset of strategic partner, you're bringing in Deloitte, we've been talking to some of their professionals about the Elevate Program with Oracle, that's a nice lever that you're, you can take advantage of. >> Absolutely, and in fact, we've seen that that is a huge opportunity for us because one, the partnership with Deloitte is incredibly strategic. But we also partner with other companies like Accenture and DXC and IBM candidly, and Oracle, Oracle Consulting is incredibly flexible in terms of what kind of partnerships and alignment they have with our customers and it's really based on what the customer preference is. >> It's not just about, you know, feature, function, speeds and feeds, maybe you could address that. And where does Oracle Consulting fit in that equation? >> We firmly believe that every customer is going to want to have a different option for what they do in the cloud and based on the provider. So we one, we've partnered with Microsoft, and we actually can interconnect our clouds together to provide that kind of flexibility to our customers, and Oracle Consulting is a key component of that. To engage our customers and talk about our Microsoft integration, our partnership, Oracle Consulting is the arm that does that work for us. So we are seeing them come up, come about in a much different way, and in a way that's differentiated between other consulting staff augmentation firms. >> I want to end on growth Pat, and maybe talk about everyone wants cloud, Cloud is the growth business. You look at Oracle's business, you know, everybody's business, this cloud is growing. Everything else is either hanging on or declining, so it's all about growth. How do you drive growth? What is cloud's role in terms of the growth strategy? And maybe add some color to that narrative. >> From a product perspective, I think we're sort of a luxury of riches around the autonomous capabilities with the (mumbles). So that's something that's incredibly unique to Oracle, you know, the autonomous database and all the autonomous services that we're rolling out. And that autonomous gets back to what we talked about earlier around security, around performance, around scalability and all these things so that ultimately we're positioning the capabilities of the future, but we're positioning them today. So we're a market leader in this space, you know, not only is the Oracle database, as you pointed out, the market leader, we're market leader in ERP Cloud and a bunch of the SAS series. But this autonomous segment of the market is crucial for us and crucial to our growth. >> Yeah, it really is an enabler, and what I've been saying is that it's almost compulsory for Oracle to participate and compete in the cloud because it gives you that automation and that scale. But you're talking about also setting up, you know, some future advantages of being able to take advantage of data, the combination of data, AI, and cloud is the new superpower within the industry. Sherry, I want to end on you. 11 months in at Oracle, let's say things work out great, you're here two, three, four years down the road, you look back, what does success look like? >> Success looks like every one of our customers moving to the Oracle cloud and seeing incredible business value from that partnering with Oracle Consulting. That's what my success criteria is. >> Guys, well listen, thanks for so much for coming on the CUBE where we've been tracking this transformation of Oracle Consulting. And one of the things that's very clear, is Oracle is obviously serious about cloud, but also seriously about bringing in new talent and new skill sets to really not only transform Oracle but help transform your customers. So thank you for your time, I really appreciate it. >> Thanks so much. >> Yep you bet, thank you. >> All right and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE. We'll see you next time.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE. Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Dave Valante. We're covering the transformation of Oracle Consulting, specifically focused on really what is what I consider a rebirth from really staff augmentation to a much more strategic partner for customers. And with me to explore that a little bit is Sherry Lautenbach. She's the Senior Vice President of Cloud Key Accounts at Oracle. And we're also joined by Pat Mongovin who's a group VP for the North American Cloud Strategy, also at Oracle. Folks, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks Dave. >> Yep, thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. So Sherry, you're out talking to customers a lot, and I'm curious as to what that conversation is like, specifically as it relates to consulting. Are you bringing Oracle Consulting now into the conversation? What's that conversation like? >> Absolutely, in fact every conversation we have relating to our Cloud strategy, Oracle Consulting is part and parcel to that. They are not staff augmentation, they are actually the digital transformation arm of what we do around Cloud. So it's been really interesting to see what they've been able to do in terms of changing the narrative of what we do at Oracle from just a software company to really transforming to a Cloud provider. >> Strategy, obviously a fundamental part of any customer interaction. But what are you seeing? What underscores customer strategies? What are the business drivers for them right now? What are the catalysts that are driving their technology spending decision? >> Yeah, it's a great question Dave. I think a lot of it depends upon, especially in the times that we're in now, depends upon the industry that they're in. But, most importantly what we're seeing is right now is durability. So we want to make sure that the customers have our Oracle customers and others have an opportunity to have disaster recovery, business continuity. In this stage right now it's less about expansion per say, unless they're in an industry that's uniquely in a position for that and more about durability of the overall strategy. So when we look at that durability we think about kind of two core missions. We think about sort of back office operations and continuity and then we think about transformational revenue generation, and so when we partner with those, yes we want to make sure that we have both of those concepts in mind. >> You know we have a lot of talk about in our community about Cloud first. I think Oracle has sort of put forth the gauntlet of look, we're leading now with Cloud. You both have Cloud in your title, but obviously being Cloud first is more than that. Sherry, I wonder if you could talk about your customer's and your Cloud journey and share with us and kind of convince us that you are Cloud first. >> Sure, no that's a great question and in fact I joined Oracle about eleven months ago. I was in the industry for about 25 years and I joined specifically because I believe in what Oracle is doing around this Cloud journey. We are in our second generation of Cloud capabilities, and that's purposeful. And we do that because we've realized that where Cloud started and where we are today are two totally different things. And so we have capabilities around security, viability, extensions with autonomous, that other Cloud providers just simply don't have. And we've built these from the ground up to ensure that we can run Oracle workloads, databases and applications far better than any other Cloud provider. So it's a super exciting time to be at Oracle and it's absolutely fascinating what our customers are doing to adopt our technology. >> I want to ask you a sort of similar question. How fundamental is Cloud to organization strategies. Obviously everybody has a Cloud strategy. But I'm specifically asking as it relates to mission-critical workloads because let's face it. That's been the hardest to move into the Cloud. So, when you're out talking to customers about their strategy, and obviously dovetailing into Oracle's strategy, how do you align you know those two views? >> Yeah, it's actually a really fascinating question. So first, I think I would respond in the following way. When I think about our portfolio, I don't necessarily say Cloud first, I say customer first. And I really want the customer to make a decision based upon a deployment model that makes sense for that particular customer. Whether it's a regulated industry or the public sector or any sort of compliance considerations. So Oracle is one of the very few enterprise class Cloud providers that has, obviously, on-premise capabilities as well. And so, 99% of the cases that we see, with the exception of some of the sort of startup S&B-type folks, that are bored in the Cloud, we're dealing with the hybrid Cloud model anyway. And so that's kind of the first order of priorities, what's right for the customer and let's make sure that we get the appropriate deployment model for that customer. In terms of enterprise, essentially the workloads that we have. Whether it's Cloud or on-prem, are enterprise workloads. And those are kind of separated into two brackets. One would be for mission, sort of the revenue generation side, and one would be mission critical, sort of the back office. So Oracle is historically tremendous at the back office side, running finance, running operations, running the supply chain. Doing those things that are mission-critical. On the core mission side that's really where we're starting to focus now which is getting out into the revenue generation, the mission of the entity, with things like high-performance compute, and making sure that we have an ability to support our customers on both sides of the spectrum. >> Sherry, why are customers wanting to put mission-critical workloads in the Cloud? Is it the same sort of Cloud agility and cost, etc. I mean why not just leave it on-prem and keep it protected and maybe spend a little bit more? What's the driver for moving mission-critical workloads into the Cloud? >> Well, I think it's dependent upon what the initiatives are in the company, right? Are they looking for cost reduction, are they looking for top-line growth, are they looking for different capabilities around security that the Cloud can provide? The great thing about what we do is, we have optimized all of our workloads, both our databases and our applications into our Cloud. So we're providing additional capabilities but we're also saving a lot of money. So, we say all the time that you know put us to the test. Let us quantify what we would look like in the Cloud with our workloads versus a competitor. And we will guarantee that we will save you a lot of money. So I think that a lot of it has to do with one, it starts with potentially cost reduction, but then they start seeing additional business value driven out of and back to Oracle Consulting. What Oracle Consulting provides in terms of the business value in the Cloud is transformative for our customers. >> Talk about how you lead in these customer conversations. >> Right, well normally our entry point of one understanding what the business drivers are, right? It has to be a business-led discussion. It really isn't a technology starter point, right? It really is around what business problems are you trying to solve, and how can we help you solve them. And because we know your environments, we know what databases are employed and where they're deployed. What Oracle applications you're leveraging to run your business. We can, I think, successfully position ourselves very competitively against other Cloud providers. And I think that is then something that has resonated incredibly well with our customers, and in fact our largest customers. >> Yeah, so it seems like Oracle could solve things of an important ingredient as part of that strategy 'cause again, if it was five years ago and was just staff augmentation, that's really not a compelling conversation to have with customers. But if you can come in with a mindset of strategic partner, you're bringing in Deloitte, we've been talking to some of their professionals about the elevate program with Oracle. That is a nice lever that you can take advantage of. >> Absolutely, and in fact we've seen that, that is a huge opportunity for us because one, the partnership with Deloitte is incredibly strategic. We also partner with other companies like Accenture and DXC and IBM candidly. And Oracle Consulting is incredibly flexible in terms of what kind of partnerships and alignment they have with our customers, and it's really based on what the customer's preference is. >> Not just about feature or function, speeds and feeds, maybe you can address that, and where does Oracle Consulting fit in that equation? >> We firmly believe that every customer is going to want to have a different option for what they'll do in the Cloud and based on the provider. So we, one, we've partnered with Microsoft and we actually can interconnect our Clouds together to provide that kind of flexibility to our customers and consulting is a key component of that. So we engage our customers and talk about our Microsoft integration, our partnership or the consulting is the arm that does that work for us. So we are seeing them come about in a much different way, in a way that's differentiated between other consulting you know staff augmentation firms. >> I want to end on growth, Pat. Maybe talk about I mean Cloud, Cloud is the growth business, you look at Oracle's business, everybody's business. As Cloud is growing, everything else is either hanging on or declining, so it's all about growth. How do you drive growth, what is Cloud's role in terms of the growth strategy, and maybe add some color to that narrative. >> From a product perspective, I think we're sort of a luxury of riches around the autonomous capability which we haven't talked about. So that's something that's incredibly unique to Oracle. The autonomous database and all the autonomous services that we're rolling out. And that autonomous gives back to what we talked about earlier around security, around performance, around scalability and all these things. So that ultimately we're positioning the capabilities of the future but we're positioning them today. So we're a market leader in this space. We're not only is the Oracle database as you pointed out the market leader. We're a market leader in ERP Cloud and a bunch of the SaaS areas. But this autonomous segment of the market is crucial for us and crucial to our growth. >> Yeah it really is an enabler. I've been saying that it's almost compulsory for Oracle to participate and compete in the Cloud because it gives you that automation and that scale but you're talking about also setting up some future advantages of being able to take advantage of data, the combination of data, AI, and Cloud is the new superpower within the industry. Sherry, I want to end on you. Eleven months in at Oracle, let's say things work out great. You're here two, three, four years down the road, you look back. What does success look like? >> Success looks like every one of our customers moving to the Oracle Cloud and seeing incredible business value from that, partnering with Oracle Consulting. That's what my success criteria is. >> Guys, well listen. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE where we've been tracking this transformation of Oracle Consulting and one of the things that's very clear as Oracle's obviously serious about Cloud but also serious about bringing in new talent and new skillsets, you're really not only transform Oracle but help transform your customers, so thank you for your time, really appreciate it. >> Thanks so much. >> Yep, you bet, thank you. >> All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Valante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (bumper music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, it's theCUBE. Covering empowering the autonomous enterprise. Brought to you by Oracle Consulting. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Dave Valante. We're covering the transformation of Oracle Consulting, specifically focused on really what is what I consider a rebirth from really staff augmentation to a much more strategic partner for customers. And with me to explore that a little bit is Sherry Lautenbach. She's the Senior Vice President of Cloud Key Accounts at Oracle. And we're also joined by Pat Mongovin who's a group VP for the North American Cloud Strategy, also at Oracle. Folks, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks Dave. >> Yep, thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. So Sherry, you're out talking to customers a lot, and I'm curious as to what that conversation is like, specifically as it relates to consulting. Are you bringing Oracle Consulting now into the conversation? What's that conversation like? >> Absolutely, in fact every conversation we have relating to our Cloud strategy, Oracle Consulting is part and parcel to that. They are not staff augmentation, they are actually the digital transformation arm of what we do around Cloud. So it's been really interesting to see what they've been able to do in terms of changing the narrative of what we do at Oracle from just a software company to really transforming to a Cloud provider. >> Strategy, obviously a fundamental part of any customer interaction. But what are you seeing? What underscores customer strategies? What are the business drivers for them right now? What are the catalysts that are driving their technology spending decision? >> Yeah, it's a great question Dave. I think a lot of it depends upon, especially in the times that we're in now, depends upon the industry that they're in. But, most importantly what we're seeing is right now is durability. So we want to make sure that the customers have our Oracle customers and others have an opportunity to have disaster recovery, business continuity. In this stage right now it's less about expansion per say, unless they're in an industry that's uniquely in a position for that and more about durability of the overall strategy. So when we look at that durability we think about kind of two core missions. We think about sort of back office operations and continuity and then we think about transformational revenue generation, and so when we partner with those, yes we want to make sure that we have both of those concepts in mind. >> You know we have a lot of talk about in our community about Cloud first. I think Oracle has sort of put forth the gauntlet of look, we're leading now with Cloud. You both have Cloud in your title, but obviously being Cloud first is more than that. Sherry, I wonder if you could talk about your customer's and your Cloud journey and share with us and kind of convince us that you are Cloud first. >> Sure, no that's a great question and in fact I joined Oracle about eleven months ago. I was in the industry for about 25 years and I joined specifically because I believe in what Oracle is doing around this Cloud journey. We are in our second generation of Cloud capabilities, and that's purposeful. And we do that because we've realized that where Cloud started and where we are today are two totally different things. And so we have capabilities around security, viability, extensions with autonomous, that other Cloud providers just simply don't have. And we've built these from the ground up to ensure that we can run Oracle workloads, databases and applications far better than any other Cloud provider. So it's a super exciting time to be at Oracle and it's absolutely fascinating what our customers are doing to adopt our technology. >> I want to ask you a sort of similar question. How fundamental is Cloud to organization strategies. Obviously everybody has a Cloud strategy. But I'm specifically asking as it relates to mission-critical workloads because let's face it. That's been the hardest to move into the Cloud. So, when you're out talking to customers about their strategy, and obviously dovetailing into Oracle's strategy, how do you align you know those two views? >> Yeah, it's actually a really fascinating question. So first, I think I would respond in the following way. When I think about our portfolio, I don't necessarily say Cloud first, I say customer first. And I really want the customer to make a decision based upon a deployment model that makes sense for that particular customer. Whether it's a regulated industry or the public sector or any sort of compliance considerations. So Oracle is one of the very few enterprise class Cloud providers that has, obviously, on-premise capabilities as well. And so, 99% of the cases that we see, with the exception of some of the sort of startup S&B-type folks, that are bored in the Cloud, we're dealing with the hybrid Cloud model anyway. And so that's kind of the first order of priorities, what's right for the customer and let's make sure that we get the appropriate deployment model for that customer. In terms of enterprise, essentially the workloads that we have. Whether it's Cloud or on-prem, are enterprise workloads. And those are kind of separated into two brackets. One would be for mission, sort of the revenue generation side, and one would be mission critical, sort of the back office. So Oracle is historically tremendous at the back office side, running finance, running operations, running the supply chain. Doing those things that are mission-critical. On the core mission side that's really where we're starting to focus now which is getting out into the revenue generation, the mission of the entity, with things like high-performance compute, and making sure that we have an ability to support our customers on both sides of the spectrum. >> Sherry, why are customers wanting to put mission-critical workloads in the Cloud? Is it the same sort of Cloud agility and cost, etc. I mean why not just leave it on-prem and keep it protected and maybe spend a little bit more? What's the driver for moving mission-critical workloads into the Cloud? >> Well, I think it's dependent upon what the initiatives are in the company, right? Are they looking for cost reduction, are they looking for top-line growth, are they looking for different capabilities around security that the Cloud can provide? The great thing about what we do is, we have optimized all of our workloads, both our databases and our applications into our Cloud. So we're providing additional capabilities but we're also saving a lot of money. So, we say all the time that you know put us to the test. Let us quantify what we would look like in the Cloud with our workloads versus a competitor. And we will guarantee that we will save you a lot of money. So I think that a lot of it has to do with one, it starts with potentially cost reduction, but then they start seeing additional business value driven out of and back to Oracle Consulting. What Oracle Consulting provides in terms of the business value in the Cloud is transformative for our customers. >> Talk about how you lead in these customer conversations. >> Right, well normally our entry point of one understanding what the business drivers are, right? It has to be a business-led discussion. It really isn't a technology starter point, right? It really is around what business problems are you trying to solve, and how can we help you solve them. And because we know your environments, we know what databases are employed and where they're deployed. What Oracle applications you're leveraging to run your business. We can, I think, successfully position ourselves very competitively against other Cloud providers. And I think that is then something that has resonated incredibly well with our customers, and in fact our largest customers. >> Yeah, so it seems like Oracle could solve things of an important ingredient as part of that strategy 'cause again, if it was five years ago and was just staff augmentation, that's really not a compelling conversation to have with customers. But if you can come in with a mindset of strategic partner, you're bringing in Deloitte, we've been talking to some of their professionals about the elevate program with Oracle. That is a nice lever that you can take advantage of. >> Absolutely, and in fact we've seen that, that is a huge opportunity for us because one, the partnership with Deloitte is incredibly strategic. We also partner with other companies like Accenture and DXC and IBM candidly. And Oracle Consulting is incredibly flexible in terms of what kind of partnerships and alignment they have with our customers, and it's really based on what the customer's preference is. >> Not just about feature or function, speeds and feeds, maybe you can address that, and where does Oracle Consulting fit in that equation? >> We firmly believe that every customer is going to want to have a different option for what they'll do in the Cloud and based on the provider. So we, one, we've partnered with Microsoft and we actually can interconnect our Clouds together to provide that kind of flexibility to our customers and consulting is a key component of that. So we engage our customers and talk about our Microsoft integration, our partnership or the consulting is the arm that does that work for us. So we are seeing them come about in a much different way, in a way that's differentiated between other consulting you know staff augmentation firms. >> I want to end on growth, Pat. Maybe talk about I mean Cloud, Cloud is the growth business, you look at Oracle's business, everybody's business. As Cloud is growing, everything else is either hanging on or declining, so it's all about growth. How do you drive growth, what is Cloud's role in terms of the growth strategy, and maybe add some color to that narrative. >> From a product perspective, I think we're sort of a luxury of riches around the autonomous capability which we haven't talked about. So that's something that's incredibly unique to Oracle. The autonomous database and all the autonomous services that we're rolling out. And that autonomous gives back to what we talked about earlier around security, around performance, around scalability and all these things. So that ultimately we're positioning the capabilities of the future but we're positioning them today. So we're a market leader in this space. We're not only is the Oracle database as you pointed out the market leader. We're a market leader in ERP Cloud and a bunch of the SaaS areas. But this autonomous segment of the market is crucial for us and crucial to our growth. >> Yeah it really is an enabler. I've been saying that it's almost compulsory for Oracle to participate and compete in the Cloud because it gives you that automation and that scale but you're talking about also setting up some future advantages of being able to take advantage of data, the combination of data, AI, and Cloud is the new superpower within the industry. Sherry, I want to end on you. Eleven months in at Oracle, let's say things work out great. You're here two, three, four years down the road, you look back. What does success look like? >> Success looks like every one of our customers moving to the Oracle Cloud and seeing incredible business value from that, partnering with Oracle Consulting. That's what my success criteria is. >> Guys, well listen. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE where we've been tracking this transformation of Oracle Consulting and one of the things that's very clear as Oracle's obviously serious about Cloud but also serious about bringing in new talent and new skillsets, you're really not only transform Oracle but help transform your customers, so thank you for your time, really appreciate it. >> Thanks so much. >> Yep, you bet, thank you. >> All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Valante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (bumper music)

>> Jeff: Hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us today for the virtual Vertica BDC 2020. Today's breakout session is entitled "A Deep Dive "into the Vertica Mangement Console Enhancements and Roadmap." I'm Jeff Healey of Vertica Marketing. I'll be your host for this breakout session. Joining me are Bhavik Gandhi and Natalia Stavisky from Vertica engineering. But before we begin, I encourage you to submit questions or comments during the virtual session. You don't have to wait, just type your question or comment in the question box below the slides and click submit. There will be a Q and A session at the end of the presentation. We'll answer as many questions as we're able to during that time. Any questions we don't address, we'll do our best to answer them offline. Alternatively visit Vertica Forums at forum.vertica.com. Post your question there after the session. Our engineering team is planning to join the forums to keep the conversation going well after the event. Also, a reminder that you can maximize the screen by clicking the double arrow button in the lower right corner of the slides. And yes, this virtual session is being recorded and will be available to you on demand this week. We'll send you a notification as soon as it's ready. Now let's get started. Over to you, Bhavik. >> Bhavik: All right. So hello, and welcome, everybody doing this presentation of "Deep Dive into the Vertica Management Console Enhancements and Roadmap." Myself, Bhavik, and my team member, Natalia Stavisky, will go over a few useful announcements on Vertica Management Console, discussing a few real scenarios. All right. So today we will go forward with the brief introduction about the Management Console, then we will discuss the benefits of using Management Console by going over a couple of user scenarios for the query taking too long to run and receiving email alerts from Management Console. Then we will go over a few MC features for what we call Eon Mode databases, like provisioning and reviving the Eon Mode databases from MC, managing the subcluster and understanding the Depot. Then we will go over some of the future announcements on MC that we are planning. All right, so let's get started. All right. So, do you want to know about how to provision a new Vertica cluster from MC? How to analyze and understand a database workload by monitoring the queries on the database? How do you balance the resource pools and use alerts and thresholds on MC? So, the Management Console is basically our answer and we'll talk about its capabilities and new announcements in this presentation. So just to give a brief overview of the Management Console, who uses Management Console, it's generally used by IT administrators and DB admins. Management Console can be used to monitor both Eon Mode and Enterprise Mode databases. Why to use Management Console? You can use Management Console for provisioning Vertica databases and cluster. You can manage the already existing Vertica databases and cluster you have, and you can use various tools on Management Console like query execution, Database Designer, Workload Analyzer, and set up alerts and thresholds to get notified by some of your activities on the MC. So let's go over a few benefits of using Management Console. Okay. So using Management Console, you can view and optimize resource pool usage. Management Console helps you to identify some critical conditions on your Vertica cluster. Additionally, you can set up various thresholds thresholds in MC and get other data if those thresholds are triggered on the database. So now let's dig into the couple of scenarios. So for the first scenario, we will discuss about queries taking too long and using workload analyzer to possibly help to solve the problem. In the second scenario, we will go over alert email that you received from your Management Console and analyzing the problem and taking required actions to solve the problem. So let's go over the scenario where queries are taking too long to run. So in this example, we have this one query that we are running using the query execution on MC. And for some reason we notice that it's taking about 14.8 seconds seconds to execute this query, which is higher than the expected run time of the query. The query that we are running happens to be the query used by MC during the extended monitoring. Notice that the table name and the schema name which is ds_requests_issued, and, is the schema used for extended monitoring. Now in 10.0 MC we have redesigned the Workload Analyzer and Recommendations feature to show the recommendations and allow you to execute those recommendations. In our example, we have taken the table name and figured the tuning descriptions to see if there are any tuning recommendations related to this table. As we see over here, there are three tuning recommendations available for that table. So now in 10.0 MC, you can select those recommendations and then run them. So let's run the recommendations. All right. So once recommendations are run successfully, you can go and see all the processed recommendations that you have run previously. Over here we see that there are three recommendations that we had selected earlier have successfully processed. Now we take the same query and run it on the query execution on MC and hey, it's running really faster and we see that it takes only 0.3 seconds to run the query and, which is about like 98% decrease in original runtime of the query. So in this example we saw that using a Workload Analyzer tool on MC you can possibly triage and solve issue for your queries which are taking to long to execute. All right. So now let's go over another user scenario where DB admin's received some alert email messages from MC and would like to understand and analyze the problem. So to know more about what's going on on the database and proactively react to the problems, DB admins using the Management Console can create set of thresholds and get alerted about the conditions on the database if the threshold values is reached and then respond to the problem thereafter. Now as a DB admin, I see some email message notifications from MC and upon checking the emails, I see that there are a couple of email alerts received from MC on my email. So one of the messages that I received was for Query Resource Rejections greater than 5, pool, midpool7. And then around the same time, I received another email from the MC for the Failed Queries greater than 5, and in this case I see there are 80 failed queries. So now let's go on the MC and investigate the problem. So before going into the deep investigation about failures, let's review the threshold settings on MC. So as we see, we have set up the thresholds under the database settings page for failed queries in the last 10 minutes greater than 5 and MC should send an email to the individual if the threshold is triggered. And also we have a threshold set up for queries and resource rejections in the last five minutes for midpool7 set to greater than 5. There are various other thresholds on this page that you can set if you desire to. Now let's go and triage those email alerts about the failed queries and resource rejections that we had received. To analyze the failed queries, let's take a look at the query statistics page on the database Overview page on MC. Let's take a look at the Resource Pools graph and especially for the failed queries for each resource pools. And over to the right under the failed query section, I see about like, in the last 24 hours, there are about 6,000 failed queries for midpool7. And now I switch to view to see the statistics for each user and on this page I see for User MaryLee on the right hand side there are a high number of failed queries in last 24 hours. And to know more about the failed queries for this user, I can click on the graph for this user and get the reasons behind it. So let's click on the graph and see what's going on. And so clicking on this graph, it takes me to the failed queries view on the Query Monitoring page for database, on Database activities tab. And over here, I see there are a high number of failed queries for this user, MaryLee, with the reasons stated as, exceeding high limit. To drill down more and to know more reasons behind it, I can click on the plus icon on the left hand side for each failed queries to get the failure reason for each node on the database. So let's do that. And clicking the plus icon, I see for the two nodes that are listed, over here it says there are insufficient resources like memory and file handles for midpool7. Now let's go and analyze the midpool7 configurations and activities on it. So to do so, I will go over to the Resource Pool Monitoring view and select midpool7. I see the resource allocations for this resource pool is very low. For example, the max memory is just 1MB and the max concurrency is set to 0. Hmm, that's very odd configuration for this resource pool. Also in the bottom right graph for the resource rejections for midpool7, the graph shows very high values for resource rejection. All right. So since we saw some odd configurations and odd resource allocations for midpool7, I would like to see when this resource, when the settings were changed on the resource pools. So to do this, I can preview the audit logs on, are available on the Management Console. So I can go onto the Vertica Audit Logs and see the logs for the resource pool. So I just (mumbles) for the logs and figuring the logs for midpool7. I see on February 17th, the memory and other attributes for midpool7 were modified. So now let's analyze the resource activity for midpool7 around the time when the configurations were changed. So in our case we are using extended monitoring on MC for this database, so we can go back in time and see the statistics over the larger time range for midpool7. So viewing the activities for midpool7 around February 17th, around the time when these configurations were changed, we see a decrease in resource pool usage. Also, on the bottom right, we see the resource rejections for this midpool7 have an increase, linear increase, after the configurations were changed. I can select a point on the graph to get the more details about the resource rejections. Now to analyze the effects of the modifications on midpool7. Let's go over to the Query Monitoring page. All right, I will adjust the time range around the time when the configurations were changed for midpool7 and completed activities queries for user MaryLee. And I see there are no completed queries for this user. Now I'm taking a look at the Failed Queries tab and adjusting the time range around the time when the configurations were changed. I can do so because we are using extended monitoring. So again, adjusting the time, I can see there are high number of failed queries for this user. There about about like 10,000 failed queries for this user after the configurations were changed on this resource pool. So now let's go and modify the settings since we know after the configurations were changed, this user was not able to run the queries. So you can change the resource pool settings of using Management Console's database settings page and under the Resource Pools tab. So selecting the midpool7, I see the same odd configurations for this resource pool that we saw earlier. So now let's go and modify it, the settings. So I will increase the max memory and modify the settings for midpool7 so that it has adequate resources to run the queries for the user. Hit apply on the right hand top to see the settings. Now let's do the validation after we change the resource pool attributes. So let's go over to the same query monitoring page and see if MaryLee user is able to run the queries for midpool7. We see that now, after the configuration, after the change, after we changed the configuration for midpool7, the user can run the queries successfully and the count for Completed Queries has increased after we modified the settings for this midpool7 resource pool. And also viewing the resource pool monitoring page, we can validate that after the new configurations for midpool7 has been applied and also the resource pool usage after the configuration change has increased. And also on the bottom right graph, we can see that the resource rejections for midpool7 has decreased over the time after we modified the settings. And since we are using extended monitoring for this database, I can see that the trend in data for these resource pools, the before and after effects of modifying the settings. So initially when the settings were changed, there were high resource rejections and after we again modified the settings, the resource rejections went down. Right. So now let's go work with the provisioning and reviving the Eon Mode Vertica database cluster using the Management Console on different platform. So Management Console supports provisioning and reviving of Eon Mode databases on various cloud environments like AWS, the Google Cloud Platform, and Pure Storage. So for Google, for provisioning the Vertica Management Console on Google Cloud Platform you can use launch a template. Or on AWS environment you can use the cloud formation templates available for different OS's. Once you have provisioned Vertica Management Console, you can provision the Vertica cluster and databases from MC itself. So you can provision a Vertica cluster, you can select the Create new database button available on the homepage. This will open up the wizard to create a new database and cluster. In this example, we are using we are using the Google Cloud Platform. So the wizard will ask me for varius authentication parameters for the Google Cloud Platform. And if you're on AWS, it'll ask you for the authentication parameters for the AWS environment. And going forward on the Wizard, it'll ask me to select the instance Type. I will select for the new Vertica cluster. And also provide the communal location url for my Eon Mode database and all the other preferences related to the new cluster. Once I have selected all the preferences for my new cluster I can preview the settings and I can hit, if I am, I can hit Create if all looks okay. So if I hit Create, this will create a new, MC will create a new GCP instances because we are on the GCP environment in this example. It will create a cluster on this instance, it'll create a Vertica Eon Mode Database on this cluster. And it will, additionally, you can load the test data on it if you like to. Now let's go over and revive the existing Eon Mode database from the communal location. So you can do it the same using the Management Console by selecting the Revive Eon Mode database button on the homepage. This will again open up the wizard for reviving the Eon Mode database. Again, in this example, since we are using GCP Platform, it will ask me for the Google Cloud storage authentication attributes. And for reviving, it will ask me for the communal location so I can enter the Google Storage bucket and my folder and it will discover all the Eon Mode databases located under this folder. And I can select one of the databases that I would like to revive. And it will ask me for other Vertica preferences and for this video, for this database reviving. And once I enter all the preferences and review all the preferences I can hit Revive the database button on the Wizard. So after I hit Revive database it will create the GCP instances. The number of GCP instances that I created would be seen as the number of hosts on the original Vertica cluster. It will install the Vertica cluster on this data, on this instances and it will revive the database and it will start the database. And after starting the database, it will be imported on the MC so you can start monitoring on it. So in this example, we saw you can provision and revive the Vertica database on the GCP Platform. Additionally, you can use AWS environment to provision and revive. So now since we have the Eon Mode database on MC, Natalia will go over some Eon Mode features on MC like managing subcluster and Depot activity monitoring. Over to you, Natalia. >> Natalia: Okay, thank you. Hello, my name is Natalia Stavisky. I am also a member of Vertica Management Console Team. And I will talk today about the work I did to allow users to manage subclusters using the Management Console, and also the work I did to help users understand what's going on in their Depot in the Vertica Eon Mode database. So let's look at the picture of the subclusters. On the Manage page of Vertica Management Console, you can see here is a page that has blue tabs, and the tab that's active is Subclusters. You can see that there are two subclusters are available in this database. And for each of the subclusters, you can see subcluster properties, whether this is the primary subcluster or secondary. In this case, primary is the default subcluster. It's indicated by a star. You can see what nodes belong to each subcluster. You can see the node state and node statistics. You can also easily add a new subcluster. And we're quickly going to do this. So once you click on the button, you'll launch the wizard that'll take you through the steps. You'll enter the name of the subcluster, indicate whether this is secondary or primary subcluster. I should mention that Vertica recommends having only one primary subcluster. But we have both options here available. You will enter the number of nodes for your subcluster. And once the subcluster has been created, you can manage the subcluster. What other options for managing subcluster we have here? You can scale up an existing subcluster and that's a similar approach, you launch the wizard and (mumbles) nodes. You want to add to your existing subcluster. You can scale down a subcluster. And MC validates requirements for maintaining minimal number of nodes to prevent database shutdown. So if you can not remove any nodes from a subcluster, this option will not be available. You can stop a subcluster. And depending on whether this is a primary subcluster or secondary subcluster, this option may be available or not available. Like in this picture, we can see that for the default subcluster this option is not available. And this is because shutting down the default subcluster will cause the database to shut down as well. You can terminate a subcluster. And again, the MC warns you not to terminate the primary subcluster and validates requirements for maintaining minimal number of nodes to prevent database shutdown. So now we are going to talk a little more about how the MC helps you to understand what's going on in your Depot. So Depot is one of the core of Eon Mode database. And what are the frequently asked questions about the Depot? Is the Depot size sufficient? Are a subset of users putting a high load on the database? What tables are fetched and evicted repeatedly, we call it "re-fetched," in Depot? So here in the Depot Activity Monitoring page, we now have four tabs that allow you to answer those questions. And we'll go a little more in detail through each of them, but I'll just mention what they are for now. At a Glance shows you basic Depot configuration and also shows you query executing. Depot Efficiency, we'll talk more about that and other tabs. Depot Content, that shows you what tables are currently in your Depot. And Depot Pinning allows you to see what pinning policies have been created and to create new pinning policies. Now let's go through a scenario. Monitoring performance of workloads on one subcluster. As you know, Eon Mode database allows you to have multiple subclusters and we'll explore how this feature is useful and how we can use the Management Console to make decisions regarding whether you would like to have multiple subclusters. So here we have, in my setup, a single subcluster called default_subcluster. It has two users that are running queries that are accessing tables, mostly in schema public. So the query started executing and we can see that after fetching tables from Communal, which is the red line, the rest of the time the queries are executing in Depot. The green line is indicating queries running in Depot. The all nodes Depot is about 88% full, a steady flow, and the depot size seems to be sufficient for query executions from Depot only. That's the good case scenario. Now at around 17 :15, user Sherry got an urgent request to generate a report. And at, she started running her queries. We can see that picture is quite different now. The tables Sherry is querying are in a different schema and are much larger. Now we can see multiple lines in different colors. We can see a bunch of fetches and evictions which are indicated by blue and purple bars, and a lot of queries are now spilling into Communal. This is the red and orange lines. Orange line is an indicator of a query running partially in Depot and partially getting fetched from Communal. And the red line is data fetched from Communal storage. Let's click on the, one of the lines. Each data point, each point on the line, it'll take you to the Query Details page where you can see more about what's going on. So this is the page that shows us what queries have been run in this particular time interval which is on top of this page in orange color. So that's about one minute time interval and now we can see user Sherry among the users that are running queries. Sherry's queries involve large tables and are running against a different schema. We can see the clickstream schema in the name of the, in part of the query request. So what is happening, there is not enough Depot space for both the schema that's already in use and the one Sherry needs. As a result, evictions and fetches have started occurring. What other questions we can ask ourself to help us understand what's going on? So how about, what tables are most frequently re-fetched? So for that, we will go to the Depot Efficiency page and look at the middle, the middle chart here. We can see the larger version of this chart if we expand it. So now we have 10 tables listed that are most frequently being re-fetched. We can see that there is a clickstream schema and there are other schemas so all of those tables are being used in the queries, fetched, and then there is not enough space in the Depot, they getting evicted and they get re-fetched again. So what can be done to enable all queries to run in Depot? Option one can be increase the Depot size. So we can do this by running the following queries, which (mumbles) which nodes and storage location and the new Depot size. And I should mention that we can run this query from the Management Console from the query execution page. So this would have helped us to increase the Depot size. What other options do we have, for example, when increasing Depot size is not an option? We can also provision a second subcluster to isolate workloads like Sherry's. So we are going to do this now and we will provision a second subcluster using the Manage page. Here we're creating subcluster for Sherry or for workloads like hers. And we're going to create a (mumbles). So Sherry's subcluster has been created. We can see it here, added to the list of the subclusters. It's a secondary subcluster. Sherry has been instructed to use the new SherrySubcluster for her work. Now let's see what happened. We'll go again at Depot Activity page and we'll look at the At a Glance tab. We can see that around >> 18: 07, Sherry switched to running her queries on SherrySubcluster. On top of this page, you can see subcluster selected. So we currently have two subclusters and I'm looking, what happened to SherrySubcluster once it has been provisioned? So Sherry started using it and the lines after initial fetching from Depot, which was from Communal, which was the red line, after that, all Sherry's queries fit in Depot, which is indicated by green line. Also the Depot is pretty full on those nodes, about 90% full. But the queries are processed efficiently, there is no spilling into Communal. So that's a good case scenario. Let's now go back and take a look at the original subcluster, default subcluster. So on the left portion of the chart we can see multiple lines, that was activity before Sherry switched to her own designated subcluster. At around 18:07, after Sherry switched from the subcluster to using her designated subcluster, there is no, she is no longer using the subcluster, she is not putting a load in it. So the lines after that are turning a green color, which means the queries that are still running in default subcluster are all running in Depot. We can also see that Depot fetches and evictions bars, those purple and blue bars, are no longer showing significant numbers. Also we can check the second chart that shows Communal Storage Access. And we can see that the bars have also dropped, so there is no significant access for Communal Storage. So this problem has been solved. Each of the subclusters are serving queries from Depot and that's our most efficient scenario. Let's also look at the other tabs that we have for Depot monitoring. Let's look at Depot Efficiency tab. It has six charts and I'll go through each one of them quickly. Files Reads by Location gives an indicator of where the majority of query execution took place in Depot or in Communal. Top 10 Re-Fetches into Depot, and imagine the charts earlier in our user case, it shows tables that are most frequently fetched and evicted and then fetched again. These are good candidates to get pinned if increasing Depot size is not an option. Note that both of these charts have an option to select time interval using calendar widget. So you can get the information about the activity that happened during that time interval. Depot Pinning shows what portion of your Depot is pinned, both by byte count and by table count. And the three tables at the bottom show Depot structure. How long tables stay in Depot, we would like tables to be fetched in Depot and stay there for a long time, how often they are accessed, again, the tables in Depot, we would like to see them accessed frequently, and what the size range of tables in Depot. Depot Content. This tab allows us to search for tables that are currently in Depot and also to see stats like table size in Depot. How often tables are accessed and when were they last accessed. And the same information that's available for tables in Depot is also available on projections and partition levels for those tables. Depot Pinning. This tab allows users to see what policies are currently existing and so you can do this by clicking on the first little button and click search. This'll show you all existing policies that are already created. The second option allows you to search for a table and create a policy. You can also use the action column to modify existing policies or delete them. And the third option provides details about most frequently re-fetched tables, including fetch count, total access count, and number of re-fetched bytes. So all this information can help to make decisions regarding pinning specific tables. So that's about it about the Depot. And I should mention that the server team also has a very good presentation on the, webinar, on the Eon Mode database Depot management and subcluster management. that strongly recommend it to attend or download the slide presentation. Let's talk quickly about the Management Console Roadmap, what we are planning to do in the future. So we are going to continue focusing on subcluster management, there is still a lot of things we can do here. Promoting/demoting subclusters. Load balancing across subclusters, scheduling subcluster actions, support for large cluster mode. We'll continue working on Workload Analyzer enhancement recommendation, on backup and restore from the MC. Building custom thresholds, and Eon on HDFS support. Okay, so we are ready now to take any questions you may have now. Thank you.

(electronic music) >> From Santa Clara, California in the heart of Silicon Valley, its theCUBE. Covering Altitude 2020, brought to you by Aviatrix. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking, we will soon be taking off on our way to altitude. (upbeat music) Please keep your seat belts fastened and remain in your seat. We will be experiencing turbulence, until we are above the clouds. (thunder blasting) (electronic music) (seatbelt alert sounds) Ladies and gentlemen, we are now cruising at altitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers, cloud architects and enlightened network engineers, who have individually and are now collectively, leading their own IT teams and the industry. On a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds. Empowering enterprise IT to architect, design and control their own cloud network, regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them. It's time to gain altitude. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Mullaney, president and CEO of Aviatrix. The leader of multi-cloud networking. (electronic music) (audience clapping) >> Steve: All right. (audience clapping) Good morning everybody, here in Santa Clara as well as to the millions of people watching the livestream worldwide. Welcome to Altitude 2020, all right. So, we've got a fantastic event, today, I'm really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started. So, one of the things I wanted to share was this is not a one-time event. This is not a one-time thing that we're going to do. Sorry for the Aviation analogy, but, you know, Sherry Wei, aviatrix means female pilot so everything we do has an aviation theme. This is a take-off, for a movement. This isn't an event, this is a take-off of a movement. A multi-cloud networking movement and community that we're inviting all of you to become part of. And why we're doing that, is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds, so to speak and build their network architecture, regardless of which public cloud they're using. Whether it's one or more of these public clouds. So the good news, for today, there's lots of good news but this is one good news, is we don't have any PowerPoint presentations, no marketing speak. We know that marketing people have their own language. We're not using any of that, and no sales pitches, right? So instead, what are we doing? We're going to have expert panels, we've got Simon Richard, of Gartner here. We've got ten different network architects, cloud architects, real practitioners that are going to share their best practices and their real world experiences on their journey to the multi-cloud. So, before we start, everybody know what today is? In the U.S., it's Super Tuesday. I'm not going to get political, but Super Tuesday there was a bigger, Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago. And Aviatrix employees know what I'm talking about. Eighteen months ago, on a Tuesday, every enterprise said, "I'm going to go to the cloud". And so what that was, was the Cambrian explosion, for cloud, for the enterprise. So, Frank Cabri, you know what a Cambrian explosion is. He had to look it up on Google. 500 million years ago, what happened, there was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single-cell organisms to very complex, multi-cell organisms. Guess what happened 18 months ago, on a Tuesday, I don't really know why, but every enterprise, like I said, all woke up that day and said, "Now I'm really going to go to cloud" and that Cambrian explosion of cloud meant that I'm moving from a very simple, single cloud, single-use case, simple environment, to a very complex, multi-cloud, complex use case environment. And what we're here today, is we're going to go undress that and how do you handle those, those complexities? And, when you look at what's happening, with customers right now, this is a business transformation, right? People like to talk about transitions, this is a transformation and it's actually not just a technology transformation, it's a business transformation. It started from the CEO and the Boards of enterprise customers where they said, "I have an existential threat to the survival of my company." If you look at every industry, who they're worried about is not the other 30-year-old enterprise. What they're worried about is the three year old enterprise that's leveraging cloud, that's leveraging AI, and that's where they fear that they're going to actually wiped out, right? And so, because of this existential threat, this is CEO led, this is Board led, this is not technology led, it is mandated in the organizations. We are going to digitally transform our enterprise, because of this existential threat and the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that. And so, IT is now put back in charge. If you think back just a few years ago, in cloud, it was led by DevOps, it was led by the applications and it was, like I said, before the Cambrian explosion, it was very simple. Now, with this Cambrian explosion, an enterprise is getting very serious and mission critical. They care about visibility, they care about control, they care about compliance, conformance, everything, governance. IT is in charge and that's why we're here today to discuss that. So, what we're going to do today, is much of things but we're going to validate this journey with customers. >> Steve: Did they see the same thing? We're going to validate the requirements for multi-cloud because, honestly, I've never met an enterprise that is not going to be multicloud. Many are one cloud today but they all say, " I need to architect my network for multiple clouds", because that's just what, the network is there to support the applications and the applications will run in whatever cloud it runs best in and you have to be prepared for that. The second thing is, is architecture. Again, with IT in charge, you, architecture matters. Whether its your career, whether its how you build your house, it doesn't matter. Horrible architecture, your life is horrible forever. Good architecture, your life is pretty good. So, we're going to talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of that architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network. If you don't get that right, nothing works, right? Way more important than compute. Way more important than storage. Network is the foundational element of your infrastructure. Then we're going to talk about day two operations. What does that mean? Well day one is one day of your life, where you wire things up they do and beyond. I tell everyone in networking and IT -- it's every day of your life. And if you don't get that right, your life is bad forever. And so things like operations, visibility, security, things like that, how do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way because it's not just about configuring it in the cloud, it's actually about how do I operationalize it? And that's a huge benefit that we bring as Aviatrix. And then the last thing we're going to talk and it's the last panel we have, I always sayyou can't forget about the humans, right? So all this technology, all these things that we're doing, it's always enabled by the humans. At the end of the day, if the humans fight it, it won't get deployed. And we have a massive skills gap, in cloud and we also have a massive skills shortage. You have everyone in the world trying to hire cloud network architects, right? There's just not enough of them going around. So, at Aviatrix, we said as leaders do, "We're going to help address that issue and try to create more people." We created a program, what we call the ACE Program, again, aviation theme, it stands for Aviatrix Certified Engineer. Very similar to what Cisco did with CCIEs where Cisco taught you about IP networking, a little bit of Cisco, we're doing the same thing, we're going to teach network architects about multicloud networking and architecture and yeah, you'll get a little bit of Aviatrix training in there, but this is the missing element for people's careers and also within their organizations. So we're going to go talk about that. So, great, great event, great show. We're going to try to keep it moving. I next want to introduce, my host, he is the best in the business, you guys have probably seen him multiple, many times, he is the co-CEO and co founder of theCUBE, John Furrier. (audience clapping) (electronic music) >> John: Okay, awesome, great speech there, awesome. >> Yeah. >> I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening and I'm excited, here at the heart of silicon valley to have this event. It's a special digital event with theCUBE and Aviatrix, where we're live-streaming to, millions of people, as you said, maybe not a million. >> Maybe not a million. (laughs) Really to take this program to the world and this is really special for me, because multi-cloud is the hottest wave in cloud. And cloud-native networking is fast becoming the key engine, of the innovations, so we got an hour and a half of action-packed programming. We have a customer panel. Two customer panels. Before that Gartner's going to come out, talk about the industry. We have global system integrators, that will talk about, how their advising and building these networks and cloud native networking. And then finally the ACE's, the Aviatrix Certified Engineers, are going to talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed. So, let's jump right in, let's ask, Simon Richard to come on stage, from Gartner. We'll kick it all off. (electronic music) (clapping) >> John: Hi, can I help you. Okay, so kicking things off, getting started. Gartner, the industry experts on cloud. Really kind of more, cue your background. Talk about your background before you got to Gartner? >> Simon: Before being at Gartner, I was a chief network architect, of a Fortune 500 company, that with thousands of sites over the world and I've been doing everything in IT from a C programmer, in the 90, to a security architect, to a network engineer, to finally becoming a network analyst. >> So you rode the wave. Now you're covering the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi-cloud, is really what everyone is talking about. >> Yes. >> Cloud-native's been discussed, but the networking piece is super important. How do you see that evolving? >> Well, the way we see Enterprise adapting, cloud. The first thing you do about networking, the initial phases they either go in a very ad hoc way. Is usually led by none IT, like a shadow IT, or application people, sometime a DevOps team and it just goes as, it's completely unplanned. They create VPC's left and right with different account and they create mesh to manage them and they have Direct Connect or Express Route to any of them. So that's the first approach and on the other side. again within our first approach you see what I call, the lift and shift. Where we see like enterprise IT trying to, basically replicate what they have in a data center, in the Cloud. So they spend a lot of time planning, doing Direct Connect, putting Cisco routers and F5 and Citrix and any checkpoint, Palo Alto device, that in a sense are removing that to the cloud. >> I got to ask you, the aha moment is going to come up a lot, in one our panels, is where people realize, that it's a multi-cloud world. I mean, they either inherit clouds, certainly they're using public cloud and on-premises is now more relevant than ever. When's that aha moment? That you're seeing, where people go, "Well I got to get my act together and get on this cloud." >> Well the first, right, even before multi-cloud. So there is two approach's. The first one, like the adult way doesn't scare. At some point IT has to save them, 'cause they don't think about the tools, they don't think about operation, they have a bunch of VPC and multiple cloud. The other way, if you do the lift and shift way, they cannot take any advantages of the cloud. They lose elasticity, auto-scaling, pay by the drink. All these agility features. So they both realize, okay, neither of these ways are good, so I have to optimize that. So I have to have a mix of what I call, the cloud native services, within each cloud. So they start adapting, like all the AWS Construct, Azure Construct or Google Construct and that's what I call the optimal phase. But even that they realize, after that, they are all very different, all these approaches different, the cloud are different. Identities is constantly, difficult to manage across clouds. I mean, for example, anybody who access' accounts, there's subscription, in Azure and GCP, their projects. It's a real mess, so they realized, well I don't really like constantly use the cloud product and every cloud, that doesn't work. So I have, I'm going multi-cloud, I like to abstract all of that. I still want to manage the cloud from an EPI point of view, I don't necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products, but I have to do that and in a more EPI driven cloud environment. >> So, the not scaling piece that you where mentioning, that's because there's too many different clouds? >> Yes. >> That's the least they are, so what are they doing? What are they, building different development teams? Is it software? What's the solution? >> Well, the solution is to start architecting the cloud. That's the third phase. I called that the multi-cloud architect phase, where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud. Fact, even across one cloud it might not scale as well, If you start having like ten thousand security agreement, anybody who has that doesn't scale. You have to manage that. If you have multiple VPC, it doesn't scale. You need a third-party, identity provider. In variously scales within one cloud, if you go multiple cloud, it gets worse and worse. >> Steve, weigh in here. What's your thoughts? >> I thought we said this wasn't going to be a sales pitch for Aviatrix. (laughter) You just said exactly what we do, so anyway, that's a joke. What do you see in terms of where people are, in that multi-cloud? So, like lot of people, you know, everyone I talk to, started at one cloud, right, but then they look and then say okay but I'm now going to move to Azure and I'm going to move to... (trails off) Do you see a similar thing? >> Well, yes. They are moving but there's not a lot of application, that uses three cloud at once, they move one app in Azure, one app in AWS and one app in Google. That's what we see so far. >> Okay, yeah, one of the mistakes that people think, is they think multi-cloud. No one is ever going to go multi-cloud, for arbitrage. They're not going to go and say, well, today I might go into Azure, 'cause I get a better rate on my instance. Do you agree? That's never going to happen. What I've seen with enterprise, is I'm going to put the workload in the app, the app decides where it runs best. That may be Azure, maybe Google and for different reasons and they're going to stick there and they're not going to move. >> Let me ask you guys-- >> But the infrastructure, has to be able to support, from a networking team. >> Yes. >> Be able to do that. Do you agree with that? >> Yes, I agree. And one thing is also very important, is connecting to the cloud, is kind of the easiest thing. So, the wide area network part of the cloud, connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple. >> Steve: I agree. >> IP's like VPN, Direct Connect, Express Route. That's the simple part, what's difficult and even the provisioning part is easy. You can use Terraform and create VPC's and Vnet's across your three cloud provider. >> Steve: Right. >> What's difficult is that they choose the operation. So we'll define day two operation. What does that actually mean? >> Its just the day to day operations, after you know, the natural, lets add an app, lets add a server, lets troubleshoot a problem. >> Something changes, now what do you do? >> So what's the big concerns? I want to just get back to the cloud native networking, because everyone kind of knows what cloud native apps are. That's been the hot trend. What is cloud native networking? How do you guys, define that? Because that seems to be the hardest part of the multi-cloud wave that's coming, is cloud native networking. >> Well there's no, you know, official Gartner definition but I can create one on the spot. >> John: Do it. (laughter) >> I just want to leverage the Cloud Construct and the cloud EPI. I don't want to have to install, like a... (trails off) For example, the first version was, let's put a virtual router that doesn't even understand the cloud environment. >> Right. If I have if I have to install a virtual machine, it has to be cloud aware. It has to understand the security group, if it's a router. It has to be programmable, to the cloud API. And understand the cloud environment. >> And one thing I hear a lot from either CSO's, CIO's or CXO's in general, is this idea of, I'm definitely not going API. So, its been an API economy. So API is key on that point, but then they say. Okay, I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers, aka you called it above the clouds. So the question is... What do I do from an architectural standpoint? Do I just hire more developers and have different teams, because you mentioned that's a scale point. How do you solve this problem of, okay, I got AWS, I got GCP, or Azure, or whatever. Do I just have different teams or do I just expose EPI's? Where is that optimization? Where's the focus? >> Well, I think what you need, from a network point of view is a way, a control plane across the three clouds. And be able to use the API's of the cloud, to build networks but also to troubleshoot them and do day to day operation. So you need a view across the three clouds, that takes care of routing, connectivity. >> Steve: Performance. >> John: That's the Aviatrix plugin, right there. >> Steve: Yeah. So, how do you see, so again, your Gartner, you see the industry. You've been a network architect. How do you see this this playing out? What are the legacy incumbent client server, On Prem networking people, going to do? >> Well they need to.. >> Versus people like a Aviatrix? How do you see that playing out? >> Well obviously, all the incumbents, like Arista, Cisco, Juniper, NSX. >> Steve: Right. >> They want to basically do the lift and shift part, they want to bring, and you know, VMware want to bring in NSX on the cloud, they call that "NSX everywhere" and Cisco want to bring in ACI to the cloud, they call that "ACI Anywhere". So, everyone's.. (trails off) And then there's CloudVision from Arista, and Contrail is in the cloud. So, they just want to bring the management plane, in the cloud, but it's still based, most of them, is still based on putting a VM in them and controlling them. You extend your management console to the cloud, that's not truly cloud native. >> Right. >> Cloud native you almost have to build it from scratch. >> We like to call that cloud naive. >> Cloud naive, yeah. >> So close, one letter, right? >> Yes. >> That was a big.. (slurs) Reinvent, take the T out of Cloud Native. It's Cloud Naive. (laughter) >> That went super viral, you guys got T-shirts now. I know you're loving that. >> Steve: Yeah. >> But that really, ultimately, is kind of a double-edged sword. You can be naive on the architecture side and ruleing that. And also suppliers or can be naive. So how would you define who's naive and who's not? >> Well, in fact, their evolving as well, so for example, in Cisco, it's a little bit more native than other ones, because there really is, "ACI in the cloud", you can't really figure API's out of the cloud. NSX is going that way and so is Arista, but they're incumbent, they have their own tools, its difficult for them. They're moving slowly, so it's much easier to start from scratch. Even you, like, you know, a network company that started a few years ago. There's only really two, Aviatrix was the first one, they've been there for at least three or four years. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And there's other one's, like Akira, for example that just started. Now they're doing more connectivity, but they want to create an overlay network, across the cloud and start doing policies and things. Abstracting all the clouds within one platform. >> So, I got to ask you. I interviewed an executive at VMware, Sanjay Poonen, he said to me at RSA last week. Oh, there'll only be two networking vendors left, Cisco and VMware. (laughter) >> What's you're response to that? Obviously when you have these waves, these new brands that emerge, like Aviatrix and others. I think there'll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork. How do you respond to that comment? >> Well there's still a data center, there's still, like a lot, of action on campus and there's the wan. But from the cloud provisioning and cloud networking in general, I mean, they're behind I think. You know, you don't even need them to start with, you can, if you're small enough, you can just keep.. If you have AWS, you can use the AWS construct, they have to insert themselves, I mean, they're running behind. From my point of view. >> They are, certainly incumbents. I love the term Andy Jess uses at Amazon web services. He uses "Old guard, new guard", to talk about the industry. What does the new guard have to do? The new brands that are emerging. Is it be more DevOp's oriented? Is it NetSec ops? Is it NetOps? Is it programmability? These are some of the key discussions we've been having. What's your view, on how you see this programmability? >> The most important part is, they have to make the network simple for the Dev teams. You cannot make a phone call and get a Vline in two weeks anymore. So if you move to the cloud, you have to make that cloud construct as simple enough, so that for example, a Dev team could say, "Okay, I'm going to create this VPC, but this VPC automatically associates your account, you cannot go out on the internet. You have to go to the transit VPC, so there's lot of action in terms of, the IAM part and you have to put the control around them to. So to make it as simple as possible. >> You guys, both. You're the CEO of Aviatrix, but also you've got a lot of experience, going back to networking, going back to the, I call it the OSI days. For us old folks know what that means, but, you guys know what this means. I want to ask you the question. As you look at the future of networking, you hear a couple objections. "Oh, the cloud guys, they got networking, we're all set with them. How do you respond to the fact that networking's changing and the cloud guys have their own networking. What's some of the paying points that's going on premises of these enterprises? So are they good with the clouds? What needs... What are the key things that's going on in networking, that makes it more than just the cloud networking? What's your take on it? >> Well as I said earlier. Once you could easily provision in the cloud, you can easily connect to the cloud, its when you start troubleshooting applications in the cloud and try to scale. So that's where the problem occurred. >> Okay, what's your take on it. >> And you'll hear from the customers, that we have on stage and I think what happens is all the clouds by definition, designed to the 80-20 rule which means they'll design 80% of the basic functionality. And then lead to 20% extra functionality, that of course every Enterprise needs, to leave that to ISV's, like Aviatrix. Because why? Because they have to make money, they have a service and they can't have huge instances, for functionality that not everybody needs. So they have to design to the common and that, they all do it, right? They have to and then the extra, the problem is, that Cambrian explosion, that I talked about with enterprises. That's what they need. They're the ones who need that extra 20%. So that's what I see, there's always going to be that extra functionality. In an automated and simple way, that you talked about, but yet powerful. With the up with the visibility and control, that they expect of On Prem. That kind of combination, that Yin and the Yang, that people like us are providing. >> Simon I want to ask you? We're going to ask some of the cloud architect, customer panels, that same question. There's pioneer's doing some work here and there's also the laggards who come in behind their early adopters. What's going to be the tipping point? What are some of these conversations, that the cloud architects are having out there? Or what's the signs, that they need to be on this, multi-cloud or cloud native networking trend? What are some of the signal's that are going on in the environment? What are some of the thresholds? Are things that are going on, that they can pay attention to? >> Well, once they have the application on multiple cloud and they have to get wake up at two in the morning, to troubleshoot them. They'll know it's important. (laughter) So, I think that's when the rubber will hit the road. But, as I said, it's easier to prove, at any case. Okay, it's AWS, it's easy, user transit gateway, put a few VPC's and you're done. And you create some presents like Equinox and do a Direct Connect and Express Route with Azure. That looks simple, its the operations, that's when they'll realize. Okay, now I need to understand! How cloud networking works? I also need a tool, that gives me visibility and control. But not only that, I need to understand the basic underneath it as well. >> What are some of the day in the life scenarios. you envision happening with multi-cloud, because you think about what's happening. It kind of has that same vibe of interoperability, choice, multi-vendor, 'cause they're multi-cloud. Essentially multi-vendor. These are kind of old paradigms, that we've lived through with client server and internet working. What are some of the scenarios of success, that might be possible? Will be possible, with multi-cloud and cloud native networking. >> Well, I think, once you have good enough visibility, to satisfy your customers, not only, like to, keep the service running and application running. But to be able to provision fast enough, I think that's what you want to achieve. >> Simon, final question. Advice for folks watching on the Livestream, if they're sitting there as a cloud architect or CXO. What's your advice to them right now, in this market, 'cause obviously, public cloud check, hybrid cloud, they're working on that. That gets on premises done, now multi-cloud's right behind it. What's your advice? >> The first thing they should do, is really try to understand cloud networking. For each of their cloud providers and then understand the limitations. And, is what the cloud service provider offers enough? Or you need to look to a third party, but you don't look at a third party to start with. Especially an incumbent one, so it's tempting to say "I have a bunch of F5 experts", nothing against F5. I'm going to bring my F5 in the Cloud, when you can use an ELB, that automatically understand eases and auto scaling and so on. And you understand that's much simpler, but sometimes you need your F5, because you have requirements. You have like iRules and that kind of stuff, that you've used for years. 'cause you cannot do it. Okay, I have requirement and that's not met, I'm going to use Legacy Star and then you have to start thinking, okay, what about visibility control, above the true cloud. But before you do that you have to understand the limitations of the existing cloud providers. First, try to be as native as possible, until things don't work, after that you can start thinking of the cloud. >> Great insight, Simon. Thank you. >> That's great. >> With Gartner, thank you for sharing. (electronic music)

(electronic music) >> From Santa Clara, California in the heart of Silicon Valley, its theCUBE. Covering Altitude 2020, brought to you by Aviatrix. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking, we will soon be taking off on our way to altitude. (upbeat music) Please keep your seat belts fastened and remain in your seat. We will be experiencing turbulence, until we are above the clouds. (thunder blasting) (electronic music) (seatbelt alert sounds) Ladies and gentlemen, we are now cruising at altitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride. (electronic music) >> Female pilot: Altitude is a community of thought leaders and pioneers, cloud architects and enlightened network engineers, who have individually and are now collectively, leading their own IT teams and the industry. On a path to lift cloud networking above the clouds. Empowering enterprise IT to architect, design and control their own cloud network, regardless of the turbulent clouds beneath them. It's time to gain altitude. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Mullaney, president and CEO of Aviatrix. The leader of multi-cloud networking. (electronic music) (audience clapping) >> Steve: All right. (audience clapping) Good morning everybody, here in Santa Clara as well as to the millions of people watching the livestream worldwide. Welcome to Altitude 2020, all right. So, we've got a fantastic event, today, I'm really excited about the speakers that we have today and the experts that we have and really excited to get started. So, one of the things I wanted to share was this is not a one-time event. This is not a one-time thing that we're going to do. Sorry for the Aviation analogy, but, you know, Sherry Wei, aviatrix means female pilot so everything we do has an aviation theme. This is a take-off, for a movement. This isn't an event, this is a take-off of a movement. A multi-cloud networking movement and community that we're inviting all of you to become part of. And why we're doing that, is we want to enable enterprises to rise above the clouds, so to speak and build their network architecture, regardless of which public cloud they're using. Whether it's one or more of these public clouds. So the good news, for today, there's lots of good news but this is one good news, is we don't have any PowerPoint presentations, no marketing speak. We know that marketing people have their own language. We're not using any of that, and no sales pitches, right? So instead, what are we doing? We're going to have expert panels, we've got Simon Richard, of Gartner here. We've got ten different network architects, cloud architects, real practitioners that are going to share their best practices and their real world experiences on their journey to the multi-cloud. So, before we start, everybody know what today is? In the U.S., it's Super Tuesday. I'm not going to get political, but Super Tuesday there was a bigger, Super Tuesday that happened 18 months ago. And Aviatrix employees know what I'm talking about. Eighteen months ago, on a Tuesday, every enterprise said, "I'm going to go to the cloud". And so what that was, was the Cambrian explosion, for cloud, for the enterprise. So, Frank Cabri, you know what a Cambrian explosion is. He had to look it up on Google. 500 million years ago, what happened, there was an explosion of life where it went from very simple single-cell organisms to very complex, multi-cell organisms. Guess what happened 18 months ago, on a Tuesday, I don't really know why, but every enterprise, like I said, all woke up that day and said, "Now I'm really going to go to cloud" and that Cambrian explosion of cloud meant that I'm moving from a very simple, single cloud, single-use case, simple environment, to a very complex, multi-cloud, complex use case environment. And what we're here today, is we're going to go undress that and how do you handle those, those complexities? And, when you look at what's happening, with customers right now, this is a business transformation, right? People like to talk about transitions, this is a transformation and it's actually not just a technology transformation, it's a business transformation. It started from the CEO and the Boards of enterprise customers where they said, "I have an existential threat to the survival of my company." If you look at every industry, who they're worried about is not the other 30-year-old enterprise. What they're worried about is the three year old enterprise that's leveraging cloud, that's leveraging AI, and that's where they fear that they're going to actually wiped out, right? And so, because of this existential threat, this is CEO led, this is Board led, this is not technology led, it is mandated in the organizations. We are going to digitally transform our enterprise, because of this existential threat and the movement to cloud is going to enable us to go do that. And so, IT is now put back in charge. If you think back just a few years ago, in cloud, it was led by DevOps, it was led by the applications and it was, like I said, before the Cambrian explosion, it was very simple. Now, with this Cambrian explosion, an enterprise is getting very serious and mission critical. They care about visibility, they care about control, they care about compliance, conformance, everything, governance. IT is in charge and that's why we're here today to discuss that. So, what we're going to do today, is much of things but we're going to validate this journey with customers. >> Steve: Did they see the same thing? We're going to validate the requirements for multi-cloud because, honestly, I've never met an enterprise that is not going to be multicloud. Many are one cloud today but they all say, " I need to architect my network for multiple clouds", because that's just what, the network is there to support the applications and the applications will run in whatever cloud it runs best in and you have to be prepared for that. The second thing is, is architecture. Again, with IT in charge, you, architecture matters. Whether its your career, whether its how you build your house, it doesn't matter. Horrible architecture, your life is horrible forever. Good architecture, your life is pretty good. So, we're going to talk about architecture and how the most fundamental and critical part of that architecture and that basic infrastructure is the network. If you don't get that right, nothing works, right? Way more important than compute. Way more important than storage. Network is the foundational element of your infrastructure. Then we're going to talk about day two operations. What does that mean? Well day one is one day of your life, where you wire things up they do and beyond. I tell everyone in networking and IT -- it's every day of your life. And if you don't get that right, your life is bad forever. And so things like operations, visibility, security, things like that, how do I get my operations team to be able to handle this in an automated way because it's not just about configuring it in the cloud, it's actually about how do I operationalize it? And that's a huge benefit that we bring as Aviatrix. And then the last thing we're going to talk and it's the last panel we have, I always sayyou can't forget about the humans, right? So all this technology, all these things that we're doing, it's always enabled by the humans. At the end of the day, if the humans fight it, it won't get deployed. And we have a massive skills gap, in cloud and we also have a massive skills shortage. You have everyone in the world trying to hire cloud network architects, right? There's just not enough of them going around. So, at Aviatrix, we said as leaders do, "We're going to help address that issue and try to create more people." We created a program, what we call the ACE Program, again, aviation theme, it stands for Aviatrix Certified Engineer. Very similar to what Cisco did with CCIEs where Cisco taught you about IP networking, a little bit of Cisco, we're doing the same thing, we're going to teach network architects about multicloud networking and architecture and yeah, you'll get a little bit of Aviatrix training in there, but this is the missing element for people's careers and also within their organizations. So we're going to go talk about that. So, great, great event, great show. We're going to try to keep it moving. I next want to introduce, my host, he is the best in the business, you guys have probably seen him multiple, many times, he is the co-CEO and co founder of theCUBE, John Furrier. (audience clapping) (electronic music) >> John: Okay, awesome, great speech there, awesome. >> Yeah. >> I totally agree with everything you said about the explosion happening and I'm excited, here at the heart of silicon valley to have this event. It's a special digital event with theCUBE and Aviatrix, where we're live-streaming to, millions of people, as you said, maybe not a million. >> Maybe not a million. (laughs) Really to take this program to the world and this is really special for me, because multi-cloud is the hottest wave in cloud. And cloud-native networking is fast becoming the key engine, of the innovations, so we got an hour and a half of action-packed programming. We have a customer panel. Two customer panels. Before that Gartner's going to come out, talk about the industry. We have global system integrators, that will talk about, how their advising and building these networks and cloud native networking. And then finally the ACE's, the Aviatrix Certified Engineers, are going to talk more about their certifications and the expertise needed. So, let's jump right in, let's ask, Simon Richard to come on stage, from Gartner. We'll kick it all off. (electronic music) (clapping) >> John: Hi, can I help you. Okay, so kicking things off, getting started. Gartner, the industry experts on cloud. Really kind of more, cue your background. Talk about your background before you got to Gartner? >> Simon: Before being at Gartner, I was a chief network architect, of a Fortune 500 company, that with thousands of sites over the world and I've been doing everything in IT from a C programmer, in the 90, to a security architect, to a network engineer, to finally becoming a network analyst. >> So you rode the wave. Now you're covering the marketplace with hybrid cloud and now moving quickly to multi-cloud, is really what everyone is talking about. >> Yes. >> Cloud-native's been discussed, but the networking piece is super important. How do you see that evolving? >> Well, the way we see Enterprise adapting, cloud. The first thing you do about networking, the initial phases they either go in a very ad hoc way. Is usually led by none IT, like a shadow IT, or application people, sometime a DevOps team and it just goes as, it's completely unplanned. They create VPC's left and right with different account and they create mesh to manage them and they have Direct Connect or Express Route to any of them. So that's the first approach and on the other side. again within our first approach you see what I call, the lift and shift. Where we see like enterprise IT trying to, basically replicate what they have in a data center, in the Cloud. So they spend a lot of time planning, doing Direct Connect, putting Cisco routers and F5 and Citrix and any checkpoint, Palo Alto device, that in a sense are removing that to the cloud. >> I got to ask you, the aha moment is going to come up a lot, in one our panels, is where people realize, that it's a multi-cloud world. I mean, they either inherit clouds, certainly they're using public cloud and on-premises is now more relevant than ever. When's that aha moment? That you're seeing, where people go, "Well I got to get my act together and get on this cloud." >> Well the first, right, even before multi-cloud. So there is two approach's. The first one, like the adult way doesn't scare. At some point IT has to save them, 'cause they don't think about the tools, they don't think about operation, they have a bunch of VPC and multiple cloud. The other way, if you do the lift and shift way, they cannot take any advantages of the cloud. They lose elasticity, auto-scaling, pay by the drink. All these agility features. So they both realize, okay, neither of these ways are good, so I have to optimize that. So I have to have a mix of what I call, the cloud native services, within each cloud. So they start adapting, like all the AWS Construct, Azure Construct or Google Construct and that's what I call the optimal phase. But even that they realize, after that, they are all very different, all these approaches different, the cloud are different. Identities is constantly, difficult to manage across clouds. I mean, for example, anybody who access' accounts, there's subscription, in Azure and GCP, their projects. It's a real mess, so they realized, well I don't really like constantly use the cloud product and every cloud, that doesn't work. So I have, I'm going multi-cloud, I like to abstract all of that. I still want to manage the cloud from an EPI point of view, I don't necessarily want to bring my incumbent data center products, but I have to do that and in a more EPI driven cloud environment. >> So, the not scaling piece that you where mentioning, that's because there's too many different clouds? >> Yes. >> That's the least they are, so what are they doing? What are they, building different development teams? Is it software? What's the solution? >> Well, the solution is to start architecting the cloud. That's the third phase. I called that the multi-cloud architect phase, where they have to think about abstraction that works across cloud. Fact, even across one cloud it might not scale as well, If you start having like ten thousand security agreement, anybody who has that doesn't scale. You have to manage that. If you have multiple VPC, it doesn't scale. You need a third-party, identity provider. In variously scales within one cloud, if you go multiple cloud, it gets worse and worse. >> Steve, weigh in here. What's your thoughts? >> I thought we said this wasn't going to be a sales pitch for Aviatrix. (laughter) You just said exactly what we do, so anyway, that's a joke. What do you see in terms of where people are, in that multi-cloud? So, like lot of people, you know, everyone I talk to, started at one cloud, right, but then they look and then say okay but I'm now going to move to Azure and I'm going to move to... (trails off) Do you see a similar thing? >> Well, yes. They are moving but there's not a lot of application, that uses three cloud at once, they move one app in Azure, one app in AWS and one app in Google. That's what we see so far. >> Okay, yeah, one of the mistakes that people think, is they think multi-cloud. No one is ever going to go multi-cloud, for arbitrage. They're not going to go and say, well, today I might go into Azure, 'cause I get a better rate on my instance. Do you agree? That's never going to happen. What I've seen with enterprise, is I'm going to put the workload in the app, the app decides where it runs best. That may be Azure, maybe Google and for different reasons and they're going to stick there and they're not going to move. >> Let me ask you guys-- >> But the infrastructure, has to be able to support, from a networking team. >> Yes. >> Be able to do that. Do you agree with that? >> Yes, I agree. And one thing is also very important, is connecting to the cloud, is kind of the easiest thing. So, the wide area network part of the cloud, connectivity to the cloud is kind of simple. >> Steve: I agree. >> IP's like VPN, Direct Connect, Express Route. That's the simple part, what's difficult and even the provisioning part is easy. You can use Terraform and create VPC's and Vnet's across your three cloud provider. >> Steve: Right. >> What's difficult is that they choose the operation. So we'll define day two operation. What does that actually mean? >> Its just the day to day operations, after you know, the natural, lets add an app, lets add a server, lets troubleshoot a problem. >> Something changes, now what do you do? >> So what's the big concerns? I want to just get back to the cloud native networking, because everyone kind of knows what cloud native apps are. That's been the hot trend. What is cloud native networking? How do you guys, define that? Because that seems to be the hardest part of the multi-cloud wave that's coming, is cloud native networking. >> Well there's no, you know, official Gartner definition but I can create one on the spot. >> John: Do it. (laughter) >> I just want to leverage the Cloud Construct and the cloud EPI. I don't want to have to install, like a... (trails off) For example, the first version was, let's put a virtual router that doesn't even understand the cloud environment. >> Right. If I have if I have to install a virtual machine, it has to be cloud aware. It has to understand the security group, if it's a router. It has to be programmable, to the cloud API. And understand the cloud environment. >> And one thing I hear a lot from either CSO's, CIO's or CXO's in general, is this idea of, I'm definitely not going API. So, its been an API economy. So API is key on that point, but then they say. Okay, I need to essentially have the right relationship with my suppliers, aka you called it above the clouds. So the question is... What do I do from an architectural standpoint? Do I just hire more developers and have different teams, because you mentioned that's a scale point. How do you solve this problem of, okay, I got AWS, I got GCP, or Azure, or whatever. Do I just have different teams or do I just expose EPI's? Where is that optimization? Where's the focus? >> Well, I think what you need, from a network point of view is a way, a control plane across the three clouds. And be able to use the API's of the cloud, to build networks but also to troubleshoot them and do day to day operation. So you need a view across the three clouds, that takes care of routing, connectivity. >> Steve: Performance. >> John: That's the Aviatrix plugin, right there. >> Steve: Yeah. So, how do you see, so again, your Gartner, you see the industry. You've been a network architect. How do you see this this playing out? What are the legacy incumbent client server, On Prem networking people, going to do? >> Well they need to.. >> Versus people like a Aviatrix? How do you see that playing out? >> Well obviously, all the incumbents, like Arista, Cisco, Juniper, NSX. >> Steve: Right. >> They want to basically do the lift and shift part, they want to bring, and you know, VMware want to bring in NSX on the cloud, they call that "NSX everywhere" and Cisco want to bring in ACI to the cloud, they call that "ACI Anywhere". So, everyone's.. (trails off) And then there's CloudVision from Arista, and Contrail is in the cloud. So, they just want to bring the management plane, in the cloud, but it's still based, most of them, is still based on putting a VM in them and controlling them. You extend your management console to the cloud, that's not truly cloud native. >> Right. >> Cloud native you almost have to build it from scratch. >> We like to call that cloud naive. >> Cloud naive, yeah. >> So close, one letter, right? >> Yes. >> That was a big.. (slurs) Reinvent, take the T out of Cloud Native. It's Cloud Naive. (laughter) >> That went super viral, you guys got T-shirts now. I know you're loving that. >> Steve: Yeah. >> But that really, ultimately, is kind of a double-edged sword. You can be naive on the architecture side and ruleing that. And also suppliers or can be naive. So how would you define who's naive and who's not? >> Well, in fact, their evolving as well, so for example, in Cisco, it's a little bit more native than other ones, because there really is, "ACI in the cloud", you can't really figure API's out of the cloud. NSX is going that way and so is Arista, but they're incumbent, they have their own tools, its difficult for them. They're moving slowly, so it's much easier to start from scratch. Even you, like, you know, a network company that started a few years ago. There's only really two, Aviatrix was the first one, they've been there for at least three or four years. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And there's other one's, like Akira, for example that just started. Now they're doing more connectivity, but they want to create an overlay network, across the cloud and start doing policies and things. Abstracting all the clouds within one platform. >> So, I got to ask you. I interviewed an executive at VMware, Sanjay Poonen, he said to me at RSA last week. Oh, there'll only be two networking vendors left, Cisco and VMware. (laughter) >> What's you're response to that? Obviously when you have these waves, these new brands that emerge, like Aviatrix and others. I think there'll be a lot of startups coming out of the woodwork. How do you respond to that comment? >> Well there's still a data center, there's still, like a lot, of action on campus and there's the wan. But from the cloud provisioning and cloud networking in general, I mean, they're behind I think. You know, you don't even need them to start with, you can, if you're small enough, you can just keep.. If you have AWS, you can use the AWS construct, they have to insert themselves, I mean, they're running behind. From my point of view. >> They are, certainly incumbents. I love the term Andy Jess uses at Amazon web services. He uses "Old guard, new guard", to talk about the industry. What does the new guard have to do? The new brands that are emerging. Is it be more DevOp's oriented? Is it NetSec ops? Is it NetOps? Is it programmability? These are some of the key discussions we've been having. What's your view, on how you see this programmability? >> The most important part is, they have to make the network simple for the Dev teams. You cannot make a phone call and get a Vline in two weeks anymore. So if you move to the cloud, you have to make that cloud construct as simple enough, so that for example, a Dev team could say, "Okay, I'm going to create this VPC, but this VPC automatically associates your account, you cannot go out on the internet. You have to go to the transit VPC, so there's lot of action in terms of, the IAM part and you have to put the control around them to. So to make it as simple as possible. >> You guys, both. You're the CEO of Aviatrix, but also you've got a lot of experience, going back to networking, going back to the, I call it the OSI days. For us old folks know what that means, but, you guys know what this means. I want to ask you the question. As you look at the future of networking, you hear a couple objections. "Oh, the cloud guys, they got networking, we're all set with them. How do you respond to the fact that networking's changing and the cloud guys have their own networking. What's some of the paying points that's going on premises of these enterprises? So are they good with the clouds? What needs... What are the key things that's going on in networking, that makes it more than just the cloud networking? What's your take on it? >> Well as I said earlier. Once you could easily provision in the cloud, you can easily connect to the cloud, its when you start troubleshooting applications in the cloud and try to scale. So that's where the problem occurred. >> Okay, what's your take on it. >> And you'll hear from the customers, that we have on stage and I think what happens is all the clouds by definition, designed to the 80-20 rule which means they'll design 80% of the basic functionality. And then lead to 20% extra functionality, that of course every Enterprise needs, to leave that to ISV's, like Aviatrix. Because why? Because they have to make money, they have a service and they can't have huge instances, for functionality that not everybody needs. So they have to design to the common and that, they all do it, right? They have to and then the extra, the problem is, that Cambrian explosion, that I talked about with enterprises. That's what they need. They're the ones who need that extra 20%. So that's what I see, there's always going to be that extra functionality. In an automated and simple way, that you talked about, but yet powerful. With the up with the visibility and control, that they expect of On Prem. That kind of combination, that Yin and the Yang, that people like us are providing. >> Simon I want to ask you? We're going to ask some of the cloud architect, customer panels, that same question. There's pioneer's doing some work here and there's also the laggards who come in behind their early adopters. What's going to be the tipping point? What are some of these conversations, that the cloud architects are having out there? Or what's the signs, that they need to be on this, multi-cloud or cloud native networking trend? What are some of the signal's that are going on in the environment? What are some of the thresholds? Are things that are going on, that they can pay attention to? >> Well, once they have the application on multiple cloud and they have to get wake up at two in the morning, to troubleshoot them. They'll know it's important. (laughter) So, I think that's when the rubber will hit the road. But, as I said, it's easier to prove, at any case. Okay, it's AWS, it's easy, user transit gateway, put a few VPC's and you're done. And you create some presents like Equinox and do a Direct Connect and Express Route with Azure. That looks simple, its the operations, that's when they'll realize. Okay, now I need to understand! How cloud networking works? I also need a tool, that gives me visibility and control. But not only that, I need to understand the basic underneath it as well. >> What are some of the day in the life scenarios. you envision happening with multi-cloud, because you think about what's happening. It kind of has that same vibe of interoperability, choice, multi-vendor, 'cause they're multi-cloud. Essentially multi-vendor. These are kind of old paradigms, that we've lived through with client server and internet working. What are some of the scenarios of success, that might be possible? Will be possible, with multi-cloud and cloud native networking. >> Well, I think, once you have good enough visibility, to satisfy your customers, not only, like to, keep the service running and application running. But to be able to provision fast enough, I think that's what you want to achieve. >> Simon, final question. Advice for folks watching on the Livestream, if they're sitting there as a cloud architect or CXO. What's your advice to them right now, in this market, 'cause obviously, public cloud check, hybrid cloud, they're working on that. That gets on premises done, now multi-cloud's right behind it. What's your advice? >> The first thing they should do, is really try to understand cloud networking. For each of their cloud providers and then understand the limitations. And, is what the cloud service provider offers enough? Or you need to look to a third party, but you don't look at a third party to start with. Especially an incumbent one, so it's tempting to say "I have a bunch of F5 experts", nothing against F5. I'm going to bring my F5 in the Cloud, when you can use an ELB, that automatically understand eases and auto scaling and so on. And you understand that's much simpler, but sometimes you need your F5, because you have requirements. You have like iRules and that kind of stuff, that you've used for years. 'cause you cannot do it. Okay, I have requirement and that's not met, I'm going to use Legacy Star and then you have to start thinking, okay, what about visibility control, above the true cloud. But before you do that you have to understand the limitations of the existing cloud providers. First, try to be as native as possible, until things don't work, after that you can start thinking of the cloud. >> Great insight, Simon. Thank you. >> That's great. >> With Gartner, thank you for sharing. (electronic music) >> Welcome back to ALTITUDE 2020. For the folks in the live stream, I'm John Furrier, Steve Mullaney, CEO of Aviatrix. For our first of two customer panels with cloud network architects, we've got Bobby Willoughby, AEGON Luis Castillo from National Instruments and David Shinnick with FactSet. Guys, welcome to the stage for this digital event. Come on up. (audience clapping) (upbeat music) Hey good to see you, thank you. Customer panel, this is my favorite part. We get to hear the real scoop, we get the Gardener giving us the industry overview. Certainly, multi-cloud is very relevant, and cloud-native networking is a hot trend with the live stream out there in the digital events. So guys, let's get into it. The journey is, you guys are pioneering this journey of multi-cloud and cloud-native networking and are soon going to be a lot more coming. So I want to get into the journey. What's it been like? Is it real? You've got a lot of scar tissue? What are some of the learnings? >> Absolutely. Multi-cloud is whether or not we accept it, as network engineers is a reality. Like Steve said, about two years ago, companies really decided to just bite the bullet and move there. Whether or not we accept that fact, we need to not create a consistent architecture across multiple clouds. And that is challenging without orchestration layers as you start managing different tool sets and different languages across different clouds. So it's really important to start thinking about that. >> Guys on the other panelists here, there's different phases of this journey. Some come at it from a networking perspective, some come in from a problem troubleshooting, what's your experiences? >> From a networking perspective, it's been incredibly exciting, it's kind of once in a generational opportunity to look at how you're building out your network. You can start to embrace things like infrastructure as code that maybe your peers on the systems teams have been doing for years, but it just never really worked on-prem. So it's really exciting to look at all the opportunities that we have and all of the interesting challenges that come up that you get to tackle. >> And effects that you guys are mostly AWS, right? >> Yeah. Right now though, we are looking at multiple clouds. We have production workloads running in multiple clouds today but a lot of the initial work has been with Amazon. >> And you've seen it from a networking perspective, that's where you guys are coming at it from? >> Yup. >> Awesome. How about you? >> We evolve more from a customer requirement perspective. Started out primarily as AWS, but as the customer needed more resources from Azure like HPC, Azure AD, things like that, even recently, Google analytics, our journey has evolved into more of a multi-cloud environment. >> Steve, weigh in on the architecture because this is going to be a big conversation, and I wanted you to lead this section. >> I think you guys agree the journey, it seems like the journey started a couple of years ago. Got real serious, the need for multi-cloud, whether you're there today. Of course, it's going to be there in the future. So that's really important. I think the next thing is just architecture. I'd love to hear what you, had some comments about architecture matters, it all starts, every enterprise I talked to. Maybe talk about architecture and the importance of architects, maybe Bobby. >> From architecture perspective, we started our journey five years ago. >> Wow, okay. >> And we're just now starting our fourth evolution over network architect. And we call it networking security net sec, versus just as network. And that fourth-generation architecture should be based primarily upon the Palo Alto Networks and Aviatrix. Aviatrix to new orchestration piece of it. But that journey came because of the need for simplicity, the need for a multi-cloud orchestration without us having to go and do reprogramming efforts across every cloud as it comes along. >> I guess the other question I also had around architecture is also... Luis maybe just talk about it. I know we've talked a little bit about scripting, and some of your thoughts on that. >> Absolutely. So for us, we started creating the network constructs with cloud formation, and we've stuck with that for the most part. What's interesting about that is today, on-premise, we have a lot of automation around how we provision networks, but cloud formation has become a little bit like the new manual for us. We're now having issues with having to automate that component and making it consistent with our on-premise architecture and making it consistent with Azure architecture and Google cloud. So, it's really interesting to see companies now bring that layer of abstraction that SD-WAN brought to the wound side, now it's going up into the cloud networking architecture. >> Great. So on the fourth generation, you mentioned you're on the fourth-gen architecture. What have you learned? Is there any lessons, scratch issue, what to avoid, what worked? What was the path that you touched? >> It's probably the biggest lesson there is that when you think you finally figured it out, you haven't. Amazon will change something, Azure change something. Transit Gateway is a game-changer. And listening to the business requirements is probably the biggest thing we need to do upfront. But I think from a simplicity perspective, like I said, we don't want to do things four times. We want to do things one time, we want be able to write to an API which Aviatrix has and have them do the orchestration for us. So that we don't have to do it four times. >> How important is architecture in the progression? Is it do you guys get thrown in the deep end, to solve these problems, are you guys zooming out and looking at it? How are you guys looking at the architecture? >> You can't get off the ground if you don't have the network there. So all of those, we've gone through similar evolutions, we're on our fourth or fifth evolution. I think about what we started off with Amazon without Direct Connect Gateway, without Transit Gateway, without a lot of the things that are available today, kind of the 80, 20 that Steve was talking about. Just because it wasn't there doesn't mean we didn't need it. So we needed to figure out a way to do it, we couldn't say, "Oh, you need to come back to the network team in a year, and maybe Amazon will have a solution for it." We need to do it now and evolve later and maybe optimize or change the way you're doing things in the future. But don't sit around and wait, you can't. >> I'd love to have you guys each individually answer this question for the live streams that comes up a lot. A lot of cloud architects out in the community, what should they be thinking about the folks that are coming into this proactively and, or realizing the business benefits are there? What advice would you guys give them on architecture? What should be they'd be thinking about, and what are some guiding principles you could share? >> So I would start with looking at an architecture model that can spread and give consistency to the different cloud vendors that you will absolutely have to support. Cloud vendors tend to want to pull you into using their native tool set, and that's good if only it was realistic to talk about only one cloud. But because it doesn't, it's super important to talk about, and have a conversation with the business and with your technology teams about a consistent model. >> And how do I do my day one work so that I'm not spending 80% of my time troubleshooting or managing my network? Because if I'm doing that, then I'm missing out on ways that I can make improvements or embrace new technologies. So it's really important early on to figure out, how do I make this as low maintenance as possible so that I can focus on the things that the team really should be focusing on? >> Bobby, your advice there, architecture. >> I don't know what else I can add to that. Simplicity of operations is key. >> So the holistic view of day two operations you mentioned, let's can jump in day one as you're getting stuff set up, day two is your life after. This is kind of of what you're getting at, David. So what does that look like? What are you envisioning as you look at that 20-mile stair, out post multi-cloud world? What are some of the things that you want in the day two operations? >> Infrastructure as code is really important to us. So how do we design it so that we can start fit start making network changes and fitting them into a release pipeline and start looking at it like that, rather than somebody logging into a router CLI and troubleshooting things in an ad hoc nature? So, moving more towards a dev-ops model. >> You guys, anything to add on that day two? >> Yeah, I would love to add something. In terms of day two operations you can either sort of ignore the day two operations for a little while, where you get your feet wet, or you can start approaching it from the beginning. The fact is that the cloud-native tools don't have a lot of maturity in that space and when you run into an issue, you're going to end up having a bad day, going through millions and millions of logs just to try to understand what's going on. That's something that the industry just now is beginning to realize it's such a big gap. >> I think that's key because for us, we're moving to more of an event-driven or operations. In the past, monitoring got the job done. It's impossible to monitor something that is not there when the event happens. So the event-driven application and then detection is important. >> Gardner is all about the cloud-native wave coming into networking. That's going to be a serious thing. I want to get your guys' perspective, I know you have each different views of how you come into the journey and how you're executing. And I always say the beauty's in the eye of the beholder and that applies to how the network's laid out. So, Bobby, you guys do a lot of high-performance encryption, both on AWS and Azure. That's a unique thing for you. How are you seeing that impact with multi-cloud? >> That's a new requirement for us too, where we have an increment to encrypt. And then if you ever get the question, should I encrypt, should I not encrypt? The answer is always yes. You should encrypt when you can encrypt. For our perspective, we need to migrate a bunch of data from our data centers. We have some huge data centers, and getting that data to the cloud is a timely expense in some cases. So we have been mandated, we have to encrypt everything, leave in the data center. So we're looking at using the Aviatrix insane mode appliances to be able to encrypt 10, 20 gigabits of data as it moves to the cloud itself. >> David, you're using Terraform, you've got FireNet, you've got a lot of complexity in your network. What do you guys look at the future for your environment? >> So many exciting that we're working on now as FireNet. So for our security team that obviously have a lot of knowledge base around Palo Alto, and with our commitments to our clients, it's not very easy to shift your security model to a specific cloud vendor. So there's a lot of SOC 2 compliance and things like that were being able to take some of what you've worked on for years on-prem and put it in the cloud and have the same type of assurance that things are going to work and be secure in the same way that they are on-prem, helps make that journey into the cloud a lot easier. >> And Louis, you guys got scripting, you got a lot of things going on. What's your unique angle on this? >> Absolutely. So for disclosure, I'm not an Aviatrix customer yet. (laughs) >> It's okay, we want to hear the truth, so that's good. Tell us, what are you thinking about? What's on your mind? >> When you talk about implementing a tool like this, it's really just really important to talk about automation focus on value. When you talk about things like encryption and things like so you're encrypting tunnels and encrypting the path, and those things should be second nature really. When you look at building those back-ends and managing them with your team, it becomes really painful. So tools like Aviatrix that add a lot automation it's out of sight, out of mind. You can focus on the value, and you don't have to focus on this. >> So I got to ask you guys. I see Aviatrix was here, they're supplier to this sector, but you guys are customers. Everyone's pitching your stuff, people knock on you, "Buy my stuff." How do you guys have that conversation with the suppliers, like the cloud vendors and other folks? What's it like? We're API all the way? You've got to support this? What are some of your requirements? How do you talk to and evaluate people that walk in and want to knock on your door and pitch you something? What's the conversation like? >> It's definitely API driven. We definitely look at the API structure that the vendors provide before we select anything. That is always first of mine and also, what problem are we really trying to solve? Usually, people try to sell or try to give us something that isn't really valuable, like implementing a Cisco solution on the cloud doesn't really add a lot of value, that's where we go. >> David, what's your conversation like with suppliers? Do you have a certain new way to do things? As it becomes more agile, essentially networking, and getting more dynamic, what are some of the conversations with either in commits or new vendors that you're having? What do you require? >> Ease of use is definitely high up there. We've had some vendors come in and say, "Hey, when you go to set this up, "we're going to want to send somebody on-site." And they're going to sit with you for a day to configure it. And that's a red flag. Well, wait a minute, do we really, if one of my really talented engineers can't figure it out on his own, what's going on there and why is that? Having some ease of use and the team being comfortable with it and understanding it is really important. >> Bobby, how about you? Old days was, do a bake-off and the winner takes all. Is it like that anymore? What's evolving? Bake-off last year for but still win. But that's different now because now when you get the product, you can install the product in AWS and Azure, have it up running in a matter of minutes. So the key is that can you be operational within hours or days instead of weeks? But do we also have the flexibility to customize it, to meet your needs? Because you don't want to be put into a box with the other customers when you have needs that are past their needs. >> I can almost see the challenge that you guys are living, where you've got the cloud immediate value, depending how you can roll up any solutions, but then you might have other needs. So you've got to be careful not to buy into stuff that's not shipping. So you're trying to be proactive and at the same time, deal with what you got. How do you guys see that evolving? Because multi-cloud to me is definitely relevant, but it's not yet clear how to implement across. How do you guys look at this baked versus future solutions coming? How do you balance that? >> Again, so right now, we're taking the ad hoc approach and experimenting what the different concepts of cloud are and really leveraging the native constructs of each cloud. But there's a breaking point for sure. You don't get to scale this like someone said, and you have to focus on being able to deliver, developers their sandbox or their play area for the things that they're trying to build quickly. And the only way to do that is with some consistent orchestration layer that allows you to-- >> So you expect a lot more stuff to becoming pretty quickly in that area. >> I do expect things to start maturing quite quickly this year. >> And you guys see similar trend, new stuff coming fast? >> Yeah. Probably the biggest challenge we've got now is being able to segment within the network, being able to provide segmentation between production, non-production workloads, even businesses, because we support many businesses worldwide and isolation between those is a key criteria there. So the ability to identify and quickly isolate those workloads is key. So the CIOs that are watching are saying, "Hey, take that hill, do multi-cloud." And then you have the bottoms up organization, "Pause, you're like off a little bit, it's not how it works." What is the reality in terms of implementing as fast as possible? Because the business benefits are clear, but it's not always clear on the technology how to move that fast. What are some of the barriers, what are the blockers, what are the enablers? >> I think the reality is that you may not think you're multi-cloud, but your business is. So I think the biggest barrier there is understanding what the requirements are and how best to meet those requirements in a secure manner. Because you need to make sure that things are working from a latency perspective that things work the way they did and get out of the mind shift that it was a tier-three application and the data center, it doesn't have to be a tier-three application in the cloud. So, lift and shift is not the way to go. >> Scale is a big part of what I see is the competitive advantage by these clouds and used to be proprietary network stacks in the old days, and then open systems came, that was a good thing. But as cloud has become bigger, there's an inherent lock-in there with the scale. How do you guys keep the choice open? How are you guys thinking about interoperability? What are some of the conversations that you guys are having around those key concepts? >> When we look at from a networking perspective, it's really key for you to just enable all the class to be able to communicate between them. Developers will find a way to use the cloud that best suits their business needs. And like you said, it's whether you're in denial or not, of the multi-cloud fact that your company is in already that's it becomes really important for you to move quickly. >> Yeah. And a lot of it also hinges on how well is the provider embracing what that specific cloud is doing? So, are they swimming with Amazon or Azure and just helping facilitate things, and they're doing the heavy lifting API work for you? Or are they swimming upstream and they're trying to hack it all together in messy way? And so that helps you stay out of the lock-in because there, if they're using Amazon native tools to help you get where you need to be, it's not like Amazon is going to release something in the future that completely makes you have designed yourself into a corner. So the closer, more than cloud-native they are, the more, the easier it is to deploy. >> Which also need to be aligned in such a way that you can take advantage of those cloud-native technologies. Will it make sense? TGW is a gamechanger in terms of cost and performance. So to completely ignore that, would be wrong. But if you needed to have encryption, TGW is not encrypted, so you need to have some type of Gateway to do the VPN encryption. So, the Aviatrix tool will give you the beauty of both worlds. You can use TGW or the Gateway. Real quick on the last minute we have, I want to just get a quick feedback from you guys. I hear a lot of people say to me, "Hey, pick the best cloud for the workload you got, then figure out multicloud behind the scenes." Do you guys agree with that? Do I go more to one cloud across the whole company or this workload works great on AWS, that workload works great on this. From a cloud standpoint, do you agree with that premise, and then when is multi-cloud stitching altogether? >> From an application perspective, it can be per workload, but it can also be an economical decision, certain enterprise contracts will pull you in one direction to add value, but the network problem is still the same. >> It doesn't go away. >> You don't want to be trying to fit a square into a round hall. If it works better on that cloud provider, then it's our job to make sure that service is there and people can use it. >> I agree, you just need to stay ahead of the game, make sure that the network infrastructure is there, security is available and is multi-cloud capable. >> At the end of the day, you guys are just validating that it's the networking game now. Cloud storage, compute check, networking is where the action is. Awesome. Thanks for your insights guys, appreciate you coming on the panel. Appreciate it, thanks. (upbeat music) >> John: Our next customer panel, got great another set of cloud network architects, Justin Smith with Zuora, Justin Brodley with EllieMae and Amit Utreja with Coupa. Welcome to stage. (audience applauds) (upbeat music) >> All right, thank you. >> How are ya? >> Thank you. Thank You. >> Hey Amit. How are ya? >> Did he say it right? >> Yeah. >> Okay he's got all the cliff notes from the last session, welcome back. Rinse and repeat. We're going to go into the hood a little bit. And I think they nailed what we've been reporting, we've been having this conversation around, networking is where the action is because that's at the end of the day you got to move packet from A to B and you got workloads exchanging data. So it's really killer. So let's get started. Amit, what are you seeing as the journey of multicloud as you go under the hood and say, "Okay, I got to implement this. "I have to engineer the network, "make it enabling, make it programmable, "make it interoperable across clouds." That almost sounds impossible to me. What's your take? >> Yeah, it seems impossible but if you are running an organization which is running infrastructure as a code it is easily doable. Like you can use tools out there that's available today, you can use third party products that can do a better job. But put your architecture first, don't wait. Architecture may not be perfect, put the best architecture that's available today and be agile, to iterate and make improvements over the time. >> We get to Justin's over here, so I have to be careful when I point a question to Justin, they both have the answer. Okay, journeys, what's the journey been like? Is there phases, We heard that from Gardner, people come into multicloud and cloud native networking from different perspectives? What's your take on the journey, Justin? >> Yeah, from our perspective, we started out very much focused on one cloud and as we've started doing acquisitions, we started doing new products to the market, the need for multicloud becomes very apparent, very quickly for us. And so having an architecture that we can plug and play into and be able to add and change things as it changes is super important for what we're doing in the space. >> Justin, your journey. >> Yes. For us, we were very ad hoc oriented and the idea is that we were reinventing all the time, trying to move into these new things and coming up with great new ideas. And so rather than it being some iterative approach with our deployments that became a number of different deployments. And so we shifted that toward and the network has been a real enabler of this. There's one network and it touches whatever cloud we want it to touch, and it touches the data centers that we need it to touch, and it touches the customers that we needed to touch. Our job is to make sure that the services that are available in one of those locations are available in all of the locations. So the idea is not that we need to come up with this new solution every time, it's that we're just iterating on what we've already decided to do. >> Before we get the architecture section, I want to ask you guys a question? I'm a big fan of let the app developers have infrastructure as code, so check. But having the right cloud run that workload, I'm a big fan of that, if it works great. But we just heard from the other panel, you can't change the network. So I want to get your thoughts, what is cloud native networking? And is that the engine really, that's the enabler for this multicloud trend? What's you guys take? We'll start with Amit, what do you think about that? >> Yeah, so you're going to have workloads running in different clouds and the workloads would have affinity to one cloud or other. But how you expose that it's a matter of how you are going to build your networks. How you're going to run security. How you're going to do egress, ingress out of it so -- >> You said networking is the big problem to solve. >> Yes. >> What's the solution? What's the key pain points and problem statement? >> The key pain point for most companies is how do you take your traditionally on premise network and then blow it out to the cloud in a way that makes sense. You have IP conflicts, you have IP space, you have public IPs on premise as well as in the cloud. And how do you kind of make sense of all of that? And I think that's where tools like Aviatrix make a lot of sense in that space. >> From our side, it's really simple. It's a latency, it's bandwidth and availability. These don't change whether we're talking about cloud or data center, or even corporate IT networking. So our job when these all of these things are simplified into like, S3, for instance and our developers want to use those. We have to be able to deliver that and for a particular group or another group that wants to use just just GCP resources. We have to support these requirements and these wants, as opposed to saying, "Hey, that's not a good idea." No, our job is to enable them not to disable them. >> Do you guys think infrastructure is code? Which I love that, I think that's the future in this. We even saw that with DevOps. But as you start getting the networking, is it getting down to the network portion where its network as code? Because storage and compute working really well, we're seeing all Kubernetes on service mesh trend. Network has code, reality is it there? Is it still got work to do? >> It's absolutely there, you mentioned net DevOps and it's very real. In Coupa we build our networks through terraform and not only just terraform, build an API so that we can consistently build VNets and VPC all across in the same way. >> So you guys are doing it? >> Yup. And even security groups. And then on top and Aviatrix comes in, we can peer the networks bridge all the different regions through code. >> Same with you guys. >> Yeah. >> What do you think about this? >> Everything we deploy is done with automation and then we also run things like Lambda on top to make changes in real time, we don't make manual changes on our network. In the data center, funny enough, it's still manual but the cloud has enabled us to move into this automation mindset. And all my guys, that's what they focus on is bringing, now what they're doing in the cloud into the data center, which is kind of opposite of what it should be or what it used to be. >> It's full DevOps then? >> Yes. >> For us, it was similar on-prem is still somewhat very manual, although we're moving more and more to ninja and terraform type concepts. But everything in the production environment is code, confirmation terraform code and now coming into the data center same (mumbles). >> So I just wanted to jump in Justin Smith, one of the comment that you made, because it's something that we always talk about a lot is that the center of gravity of architecture used to be an on-prem and now it's shifted in the cloud. And once you have your strategic architecture, what do you do? You push that everywhere. So what you used to see at the beginning of cloud was pushing the architecture on-prem into cloud. Now, I want to pick up on what you said, do you others agree that the center of gravity is here, I'm now pushing what I do in the cloud back into on-prem? And then so first that and then also in the journey, where are you at from zero to 100 of actually in the journey to cloud? Are you 50% there, are you 10%? Are you evacuating data centers next year? Where are you guys at? >> Yeah, so there's there's two types of gravity that you typically are dealing with, with the migration. First is data, gravity and your data set, and where that data lives. And then the second is the network platform that wraps all that together. In our case, the data gravity solely mostly on-prem but our network is now extending out to the app tier, it's going to be in cloud. Eventually, that data, gravity will also move to cloud as we start getting more sophisticated but in our journey, we're about halfway there. About halfway through the process, we're taking a handle of lift and shift and -- >> Steve: And when did that start? >> We started about three years ago. >> Okay, okay. >> Well for Coupa it's a very different story. It started from a garage and 100% on the cloud. So it's a business plan management platform, software as a service run 100% on the cloud. >> That was was like 10 years ago, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> You guys are riding the wave of the architecture. Justin I want to ask you, Zuora, you guys mentioned DevOps. Obviously, we saw the huge observability wave, which essentially network management for the cloud, in my opinion. It's more dynamic, but this is about visibility. We heard from the last panel you don't know what's being turned on or turned off from a services standpoint, at any given time. How is all this playing out when you start getting into the DevOps down (mumbles)? >> This is the big challenge for all of us is visibility. When you talk transport within a cloud, very interestingly we we have moved from having a backbone that we bought, that we own, that would be data center connectivity. Zuora's a subscription billing company, so we want to support the subscription mindset. So rather than going and buying circuits and having to wait three months to install and then coming up with some way to get things connected and resiliency and redundancy. My backbone is in the cloud. I use the cloud providers interconnections between regions to transport data across and so if you do that with their native solutions, you do lose visibility. There are areas in that that you don't get, which is why controllers and having some type of management plane is a requirement for us to do what we're supposed to do and provide consistency while doing it. >> Great conversation. I loved what you said earlier latency, bandwidth, I think availability were your top three things. Guys SLA, just do ping times between clouds it's like, you don't know what you're getting for round trip time. This becomes a huge kind of risk management, black hole, whatever you want to call it, blind spot. How are you guys looking at the interconnect between clouds? Because I can see that working from ground to cloud on per cloud but when you start dealing with multiclouds workloads, SLAs will be all over the map, won't they just inherently. How do you guys view that? >> Yeah, I think we talked about workload and we know that the workloads are going to be different in different clouds, but they're going to be calling each other. So it's very important to have that visibility, that you can see how data is flowing at what latency and what availability is there and our authority needs to operate on that. >> So use the software dashboard, look at the times and look at the latency -- >> In the old days, Strongswan Openswan you try to figure it out, in the new days you have to figure out. >> Justin, what's your answer to that because you're in the middle of it? >> Yeah, I think the key thing there is that we have to plan for that failure, we have to plan for that latency in our applications. If certain things are tracking in your SLI, certain things are planning for and you loosely coupled these services in a much more microservices approach. So you actually can handle that kind of failure or that type of unknown latency and unfortunately, the cloud has made us much better at handling exceptions in a much better way. >> You guys are all great examples of cloud native from day one. When did you have the tipping point moment or the epiphany of saying a multiclouds real, I can't ignore it, I got to factor that into all my design principles and everything you're doing? Was there a moment or was it from day one? >> There are two reasons, one was the business. So in business, there were some affinity to not be in one cloud or to be in one cloud and that drove from the business side. So as a cloud architect our responsibility was to support that business. Another is the technology, some things are really running better in, like if you're running Dotnet workload or your going to run machine learning or AI so that you would have that preference of one cloud over other. >> Guys, any thoughts on that? >> That was the bill that we got from AWS. That's what drives a lot of these conversations is the financial viability of what you're building on top of. This failure domain idea which is fairly interesting. How do I solve our guarantee against a failure domain? You have methodologies with back end direct connects or interconnect with GCP. All of these ideas are something that you have to take into account but that transport layer should not matter to whoever we're building this for. Our job is to deliver the frames and the packets, what that flows across, how you get there? We want to make that seamless. And so whether it's a public internet API call or it's a back end connectivity through direct connect, it doesn't matter. It just has to meet a contract that you've signed with your application, folks. >> Yeah, that's the availability piece. >> Justin, your thoughts on that, any comment on that? >> So actually multiclouds become something much more recent in the last six to eight months, I'd say. We always kind of had a very much an attitude of like moving to Amazon from our private cloud is hard enough, why complicate it further? But the realities of the business and as we start seeing, improvements in Google and Azure and different technology spaces, the need for multicloud becomes much more important. As well as our acquisition strategies are matured, we're seeing that companies that used to be on premise that we typically acquire are now very much already on a cloud. And if they're on a cloud, I need to plug them into our ecosystem. And so that's really changed our multicloud story in a big way. >> I'd love to get your thoughts on the clouds versus the clouds, because you compare them Amazon's got more features, they're rich with features. Obviously, the bills are high to people using them. But Google's got a great network, Google's networks pretty damn good And then you got Azure. What's the difference between the clouds? Where do they fall? Where do they peak in certain areas better than others? What are the characteristics, which makes one cloud better? Do they have a unique feature that makes Azure better than Google and vice versa? What do you guys think about the different clouds? >> Yeah, to my experience, I think the approach is different in many places. Google has a different approach very DevOps friendly and you can run your workloads with your network can span regions. But our application ready to accept that. Amazon is evolving. I remember 10 years back Amazon's network was a flat network, we would be launching servers in 10.0.0/8, right. And then the VPCs came out. >> We'll have to translate that to English for the live feed. Not good. So the VPCs concept came out, multi account came out, so they are evolving. Azure had a late start but because they have a late start, they saw the pattern and they have some mature setup on the network. >> They've got around the same price too. >> I think they're all trying to say they're equal in their own ways. I think they all have very specific design philosophies that allow them to be successful in different ways and you have to kind of keep that in mind as you architect your own solution. For example, Amazon has a very regional affinity, they don't like to go cross region in their architecture. Whereas Google is very much it's a global network, we're going to think about as a global solution. I think Google also has advantage that it's third to market and so has seen what Azure did wrong, it seeing what AWS did wrong and it's made those improvements and I think that's one of their big advantage. >> They got great scale too. Justin thoughts on the cloud. >> So yeah, Amazon built from the system up and Google built from the network down. So their ideas and approaches are from a global versus original, I agree with you completely that is the big number one thing. But the if you look at it from the outset, interestingly, the inability or the ability for Amazon to limit layer to broadcasting and what that really means from a VPC perspective, changed all the routing protocols you can use. All the things that we had built inside of a data center to provide resiliency and make things seamless to users, all of that disappeared. And so because we had to accept that at the VPC level, now we have to accept that at the WAN level. Google's done a better job of being able to overcome those things and provide those traditional network facilities to us. >> Just a great panel, we could go all day here, it's awesome. So I heard, we will get to the cloud native naive questions. So kind of think about what's naive and what's cloud, I'll ask that next but I got to ask you I had a conversation with a friend he's like, "WAN is the new LAN?" So if you think about what the LAN was at a data center, WAN is the new LAN, cause you keep talking about the cloud impact? So that means ST-WAN, the old ST-WAN kind of changing. There's a new LAN. How do you guys look at that? Because if you think about it, what LANs were for inside a premises was all about networking, high speed. But now when you take the WAN and make it, essentially a LAN, do you agree with that? And how do you view this trend? Is it good or bad or is it ugly? What you guys take on this? >> Yeah, I think it's a thing that you have to work with your application architects. So if you are managing networks and if you're a server engineer, you need to work with them to expose the unreliability that it would bring in. So the application has to handle a lot of the difference in the latencies and the reliability has to be worked through the application there. >> LAN, WAN, same concept is that BS? Can you give some insight? >> I think we've been talking about for a long time the erosion of the edge. And so is this just a continuation of that journey we've been on for last several years. As we get more and more cloud native and we talked about API's, the ability to lock my data in place and not be able to access it really goes away. And so I think this is just continuation. I think it has challenges. We start talking about WAN scale versus LAN scale, the tooling doesn't work the same, the scale of that tooling is much larger. and the need to automation is much, much higher in a WAN than it wasn't a LAN. That's why you're seeing so much infrastructure as code. >> Yeah. So for me, I'll go back again to this, it's bandwidth and its latency that define those two LAN versus WAN. But the other thing that's comes up more and more with cloud deployments is whereas our security boundary and where can I extend this secure aware appliance or set of rules to protect what's inside of it. So for us, we're able to deliver VRFs or route forwarding tables for different segments wherever we're at in the world. And so they're trusted to talk to each other but if they're going to go to someplace that's outside of their network, then they have to cross the security boundary, where we enforce policy very heavily. So for me, there's it's not just LAN, WAN it's how does environment get to environment more importantly. >> That's a great point in security, we haven't talked it yet but that's got to be baked in from the beginning, this architecture. Thoughts on security, how you guys are dealing with it? >> Yeah, start from the base, have app to app security built in. Have TLS, have encryption on the data at transit, data at rest. But as you bring the application to the cloud and they're going to go multicloud, talking to over the internet, in some places, well have app to app security. >> Our principles day, security is day zero every day. And so we always build it into our design, build into our architecture, into our applications. It's encrypt everything, it's TLS everywhere. It's make sure that that data is secure at all times. >> Yeah, one of the cool trends at RSA, just as a side note was the data in use encryption piece, which is homomorphic stuff was interesting. Alright guys, final question. We heard on the earlier panel was also trending at re:Invent, we think the T out of cloud native, it spells cloud naive. They have shirts now, Aviatrix kind of got this trend going. What does that mean to be naive? To your peers out there watching the live stream and also the suppliers that are trying to supply you guys with technology and services, what's naive look like and what's native look like? When is someone naive about implementing all this stuff? >> So for me, because we are in 100% cloud, for us its main thing is ready for the change. And you will find new building blocks coming in and the network design will evolve and change. So don't be naive and think that it's static, evolve with the change. >> I think the biggest naivety that people have is that well, I've been doing it this way for 20 years, I've been successful, it's going to be successful in cloud. The reality is that's not the case. You got to think some of the stuff a little bit differently and you need to think about it early enough, so that you can become cloud native and really enable your business on cloud. >> Yeah for me it's being open minded. Our industry, the network industry as a whole, has been very much I'm smarter than everybody else and we're going to tell everybody how it's going to be done. And we fell into a lull when it came to producing infrastructure and so embracing this idea that we can deploy a new solution or a new environment in minutes as opposed to hours, or weeks or months in some cases, is really important in and so >> - >> It's naive being closed minded, native being open minded. >> Exactly. For me that was a transformative kind of where I was looking to solve problems in a cloud way as opposed to looking to solve problems in this traditional old school way. >> All right, I know we're at a time but I got to asked one more question, so you guys so good. Give me a quick answer. What's the BS language when you, the BS meter goes off when people talk to you about solutions? What's the kind of jargon that you hear, that's the BS meter going off? What are people talking about that in your opinion you here you go, "That's total BS?" What triggers you? >> So that I have two lines out of movies if I say them without actually thinking them. It's like 1.21 gigawatts are you out of your mind from Back to the Future right? Somebody's giving you all these wiz bang things. And then Martin Maul and Michael Keaton in Mr Mom when he goes to 220, 221, whatever it takes. >> Yeah. >> Those two right there, if those go off in my mind where somebody's talking to me, I know they're full of baloney. >> So a lot of speeds and feeds, a lot of speeds and feeds a lot of -- >> Just data. Instead of talking about what you're actually doing and solutioning for. You're talking about, "Well, it does this this this." Okay to 220, 221. (laughter) >> Justin, what's your take? >> Anytime I start seeing the cloud vendors start benchmarking against each other. Your workload is your workload, you need to benchmark yourself. Don't listen to the marketing on that, that's just awful. >> Amit, what triggers you in the BS meter? >> I think if somebody explains to you are not simple, they cannot explain you in simplicity, then it's all bull shit. >> (laughs) That's a good one. Alright guys, thanks for the great insight, great panel. How about a round of applause to practitioners. (audience applauds) (upbeat music) >> John: Okay, welcome back to Altitude 2020 for the digital event for the live feed. Welcome back, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE with Steve Mullaney, CEO Aviatrix. For the next panel from Global System Integrated, the folks who are building and working with folks on their journey to multicloud and cloud-native networking. We've got a great panel, George Buckman with DXC and Derrick Monahan with WWT, welcome to the stage. (Audience applauds) >> Hey >> Thank you >> Groovy spot >> All right (upbeat music) >> Okay, you guys are the ones out there advising, building, and getting down and dirty with multicloud and cloud-native networking, we just heard from the customer panel. You can see the diversity of where people come in to the journey of cloud, it kind of depends upon where you are, but the trends are all clear, cloud-native networking, DevOps, up and down the stack, this has been the main engine. What's your guys' take of this journey to multicloud? What do you guys think? >> Yeah, it's critical, I mean we're seeing all of our enterprise customers enter into this, they've been through the migrations of the easy stuff, ya know? Now they're trying to optimize and get more improvements, so now the tough stuff's coming on, right? They need their data processing near where their data is. So that's driving them to a multicloud environment. >> Yeah, we've heard some of the Edge stuff, I mean, you guys are-- >> Exactly. >> You've seen this movie before, but now it's a whole new ballgame, what's your take? Yeah, so, I'll give you a hint, our practice is not called the cloud practice, it's the multicloud practice, and so if that gives you a hint of how we approach things. It's very consultative. And so when we look at what the trends are, like a year ago. About a year ago we were having conversations with customers, "Let's build a data center in the cloud. Let's put some VPCs, let's throw some firewalls, let's put some DNS and other infrastructure out there and let's hope it works." This isn't a science project. What we're starting to see is customers are starting to have more of a vision, we're helping with that consultative nature, but it's totally based on the business. And you've got to start understanding how lines of business are using the apps and then we evolve into the next journey which is a foundational approach to-- >> What are some of the problems some of your customers are solving when they come to you? What are the top things that are on their mind, obviously the ease of use, agility, all that stuff, what specifically are they digging into? >> Yeah, so complexity, I think when you look at a multicloud approach, in my view is, network requirements are complex. You know, I think they are, but I think the approach can be, "Let's simplify that." So one thing that we try to do, and this is how we talk to customers is, just like you simplify in Aviatrix, simplifies the automation orchestration of cloud networking, we're trying to simplify the design, the plan, and implementation of the infrastructure across multiple workloads, across multiple platforms. And so the way we do it, is we sit down, we look at not just use cases, not just the questions we commonly anticipate, we actually build out, based on the business and function requirements, we build out a strategy and then create a set of documents, and guess what? We actually build it in a lab, and that lab that we platform rebuilt, proves out this reference architectural actually works. >> Absolutely, we implement similar concepts. I mean, they're proven practices, they work, right? >> But George, you mentioned that the hard part's now upon us, are you referring to networking, what specifically were you getting at there when you said, "The easy part's done, now the hard part?" >> So for the enterprises themselves, migrating their more critical apps or more difficult apps into the environments, ya know, we've just scratched the surface, I believe, on what enterprises are doing to move into the cloud, to optimize their environments, to take advantage of the scale and speed to deployment and to be able to better enable their businesses. So they're just now really starting to-- >> So do you guys see what I talked about? I mean, in terms of that Cambrian explosion, I mean, you're both monster system integrators with top fortune enterprise customers, you know, really rely on you for guidance and consulting and so forth, and deploy their networks. Is that something that you've seen? I mean, does that resonate? Did you notice a year and a half ago all of a sudden the importance of cloud for enterprise shoot up? >> Yeah, I mean, we're seeing it now. >> Okay. >> In our internal environment as well, ya know, we're a huge company ourselves, customer zero, our internal IT, so, we're experiencing that internally and every one of our other customers as well. >> So I have another question and I don't know the answer to this, and a lawyer never asks a question that you don't know the answer to, but I'm going to ask it anyway. DXC and WWT, massive system integrators, why Aviatrix? >> Great question, Steve, so I think the way we approach things, I think we have a similar vision, a similar strategy, how you approach things, how we approach things, at World Wide Technology. Number one, we want a simplify the complexity. And so that's your number one priority. Let's take the networking, let's simplify it, and I think part of the other point I'm making is we see this automation piece as not just an after thought anymore. If you look at what customers care about, visibility and automation is probably at the top three, maybe the third on the list, and I think that's where we see the value. I think the partnership that we're building and what I get excited about is not just putting yours and our lab and showing customers how it works, it's co-developing a solution with you. Figuring out, "Hey, how can we make this better?" >> Right >> Visibility is a huge thing, just in security alone, network everything's around visibility. What automation do you see happening, in terms of progression, order of operations, if you will? What's the low hanging fruit? What are people working on now? What are some of the aspirational goals around when you start thinking about multicloud and automation? >> So I wanted to get back to his question. >> Answer that question. >> I wanted to answer your question, you know, what led us there and why Aviatrix. You know, in working some large internal IT projects, and looking at how we were going to integrate those solutions, you know, we like to build everything with recipes. Network is probably playing catch-up in the DevOps world but with a DevOps mindset, looking to speed to deploy, support, all those things, so when you start building your recipe, you take a little of this, a little of that, and you mix it all together, well, when you look around, you say, "Wow, look, there's this big bag of Aviatrix. "Let me plop that in. That solves a big part "of my problems that I had, the speed to integrate, "the speed to deploy, and the operational views "that I need to run this." So that was what led me to-- >> John: So how about reference architectures? >> Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, they came with a full slate of reference architectures already out there and ready to go that fit our needs, so it was very easy for us to integrate those into our recipes. >> What do you guys think about all the multi-vendor inter-operability conversations that have been going on? Choice has been a big part of multicloud in terms of, you know, customers want choice, they'll put a workload in the cloud if it works, but this notion of choice and interoperability has become a big conversation. >> It is, and I think that our approach, and that's the way we talk to customers is, "Let's speed and de-risk that decision making process, "and how do we do that?" Because interoperability is key. You're not just putting, it's not just a single vendor, we're talking, you know, many many vendors, I mean think about the average number of cloud applications a customer uses, a business, an enterprise business today, you know, it's above 30, it's skyrocketing and so what we do, and we look at it from an interoperability approach is, "How do things inter-operate?" We test it out, we validate it, we build a reference architecture that says, "These are the critical design elements, "now let's build one with Aviatrix "and show how this works with Aviatrix." And I think the important part there, though, is the automation piece that we add to it and visibility. So I think the visibility is what I see lacking across industry today. >> In cloud-native that's been a big topic. >> Yep >> Okay, in terms of Aviatrix, as you guys see them coming in, they're one of the ones that are emerging and the new brands emerging with multicloud, you've still got the old guard encumbered with huge footprints. How are customers dealing with that kind of component in dealing with both of them? >> Yeah, I mean, we have customers that are ingrained with a particular vendor and you know, we have partnerships with many vendors. So our objective is to provide the solution that meets that client. >> John: And they all want multi-vendor, they all want interoperability. >> Correct. >> All right, so I got to ask you guys a question while we were defining Day-2 operations. What does that mean? You guys are looking at the big business and technical components of architecture, what does Day-2 operations mean, what's the definition of that? >> Yeah, so I think from our perspective, with my experience, we, you know, Day-2 operations, whether it's not just the orchestration piece in setting up and let it automate and have some, you know, change control, you're looking at this from a Day-2 perspective, "How do I support this ongoing "and make it easy to make changes as we evolve?" The cloud is very dynamic. The nature of how fast it's expanding, the number features is astonishing. Trying to keep up to date with the number of just networking capabilities and services that are added. So I think Day-2 operations starts with a fundamental understanding of building out supporting a customer's environments, and making the automation piece easy from a distance, I think. >> Yeah and, you know, taking that to the next level of being able to enable customers to have catalog items that they can pick and choose, "Hey I need this network connectivity "from this cloud location back to this on-prem." And being able to have that automated and provisioned just simply by ordering it. >> For the folks watching out there, guys, take a minute to explain as you guys are in the trenches doing a lot of good work. What are some of the engagements that you guys get into? How does that progress? What happens there, they call you up and say, "Hey I need some multicloud," or you're already in there? I mean, take us through how someone can engage to use a global SI, they come in and make this thing happen, what's the typical engagement look like? >> Derrick: Yeah, so from our perspective, we typically have a series of workshops in the methodology that we kind of go along the journey. Number one, we have a foundational approach. And I don't mean foundation meaning the network foundation, that's a very critical element, we got to factor in security and we got to factor in automation. So when you think about foundation, we do a workshop that starts with education. A lot of times we'll go in and we'll just educate the customer, what is VPC sharing? You know, what is a private link in Azure? How does that impact your business? We have customers that want to share services out in an ecosystem with other customers and partners. Well there's many ways to accomplish that. Our goal is to understand those requirements and then build that strategy with them. >> Thoughts George, on-- >> Yeah, I mean, I'm one of the guys that's down in the weeds making things happen, so I'm not the guy on the front line interfacing with the customers every day. But we have a similar approach. We have a consulting practice that will go out and apply their practices to see what those-- >> And when do you parachute in? >> Yeah, when I parachute in is, I'm on the back end working with our offering development leads for networking, so we understand and are seeing what customers are asking for and we're on the back end developing the solutions that integrate with our own offerings as well as enable other customers to just deploy quickly to meet their connectivity needs. So the patterns are similar. >> Right, final question for you guys, I want to ask you to paint a picture of what success looks like. You don't have to name customers, you don't have to get in and reveal who they are, but what does success look like in multicloud as you paint a picture for the folks here and watching on the live stream, if someone says, "Hey I want to be multicloud, I got to to have my operations Agile, I want full DevOps, I want programmability and security built in from Day-zero." What does success look like? >> Yeah, I think success looks like this, so when you're building out a network, the network is a harder thing to change than some other aspects of cloud. So what we think is, even if you're thinking about that second cloud, which we have most of our customers are on two public clouds today, they might be dabbling in it. As you build that network foundation, that architecture, that takes in to consideration where you're going, and so once we start building that reference architecture out that shows, this is how to approach it from a multicloud perspective, not a single cloud, and let's not forget our branches, let's not forget our data centers, let's not forget how all this connects together because that's how we define multicloud, it's not just in the cloud, it's on-prem and it's off-prem. And so collectively, I think the key is also is that we provide them an HLD. You got to start with a high level design that can be tweaked as you go through the journey but you got to give it a solid structural foundation, and that networking which we think, most customers think as not the network engineers, but as an after thought. We want to make that the most critical element before you start the journey. >> George, from your seat, how does success look for you? >> So, you know it starts out on these journeys, often start out people not even thinking about what is going to happen, what their network needs are when they start their migration journey to the cloud. So I want, success to me looks like them being able to end up not worrying about what's happening in the network when they move to the cloud. >> Steve: Good point. >> Guys, great insight, thanks for coming on and sharing. How about a round of applause for the global system integrators? (Audience applauds) (Upbeat music) >> The next panel is the AVH certified engineers, also known as ACEs. This is the folks that are certified, they're engineering, they're building these new solutions. Please welcome Toby Foss from Informatica, Stacey Lanier from Teradata, and Jennifer Reed with Viqtor Davis to the stage. (upbeat music) (audience cheering) (panelists exchanging pleasantries) >> You got to show up. Where's your jacket Toby? (laughing) You get it done. I was just going to rib you guys and say, where's your jackets, and Jen's got the jacket on. Okay, good. >> Love the Aviatrix, ACEs Pilot gear there above the Clouds. Going to new heights. >> That's right. >> So guys Aviatrix aces, I love the name, think it's great, certified. This is all about getting things engineered. So there's a level of certification, I want to get into that. But first take us through the day in the life of an ACE, and just to point out, Stacy is a squad leader. So he's, he's like a-- >> Squadron Leader. >> Squadron Leader. >> Yeah. >> Squadron Leader, so he's got a bunch of ACEs underneath him, but share your perspective a day in the Life. Jennifer, we'll start with you. >> Sure, so I have actually a whole team that works for me both in the North America, both in the US and in Mexico. So I'm eagerly working to get them certified as well, so I can become a squad leader myself. But it's important because one of the critical gaps that we've found is people having the networking background because you graduate from college, and you have a lot of computer science background, you can program you've got Python, but networking in packets they just don't get. So, just taking them through all the processes that it's really necessary to understand when you're troubleshooting is really critical. Because you're going to get an issue where you need to figure out where exactly is that happening on the network, Is my issue just in the VPCs? Is it on the instance side is a security group, or is it going on prem? This is something actually embedded within Amazon itself? I mean, I troubleshot an issue for about six months going back and forth with Amazon, and it was the VGW VPN. Because they were auto scaling on two sides, and we ended up having to pull out the Cisco's, and put in Aviatrix so I could just say, " okay, it's fixed," and actually helped the application teams get to that and get it solved. But I'm taking a lot of junior people and getting them through that certification process, so they can understand and see the network, the way I see the network. I mean, look, I've been doing this for 25 years when I got out. When I went in the Marine Corps, that's what I did, and coming out, the network is still the network. But people don't get the same training they got in the 90s. >> Was just so easy, just write some software, and they were, takes care of itself. I know, it's pixie dust.  >> I'll come back to that, I want to come back to that, the problem solved with Amazon, but Toby. >> I think the only thing I have to add to that is that it's always the network's fault. As long as I've been in networking, it's always been the network's fault. I'm even to this day, it's still the network's fault, and part of being a network guy is that you need to prove when it is and when it's not your fault. That means you need to know a little bit about 100 different things, to make that work. >> Now you got a full stack DevOps, you got to know a lot more times another hundred. >> Toby: And the times are changing, yeah. >> This year the Squadron Leader and get that right. What is the Squadron Leader firstly? Describe what it is. >> I think is probably just leading on the network components of it. But I think, from my perspective, when to think about what you asked them was, it's about no issues and no escalations. So of my day is like that, I'm happy to be a squadron leader. >> That is a good outcome, that's a good day. >> Yeah, sure, it is. >> Is there good days? You said you had a good day with Amazon? Jennifer, you mentioned the Amazon, and this brings up a good point, when you have these new waves come in, you have a lot of new things, new use cases. A lot of the finger pointing it's that guy's problem , that girl's problems, so how do you solve that, and how do you get the Young Guns up to speed? Is there training, is it this where the certification comes in? >> This is where the certifications really going to come in. I know when we got together at Reinvent, one of the questions that we had with Steve and the team was, what should our certification look like? Should we just be teaching about what AVH troubleshooting brings to bear, but what should that be like? I think Toby and I were like, No, no, no, no. That's going a little too high, we need to get really low because the better someone can get at actually understanding what's actually happening in the network, and where to actually troubleshoot the problem, how to step back each of those processes. Because without that, it's just a big black box, and they don't know. Because everything is abstracted, in Amazon and in Azure and in Google, is abstracted, and they have these virtual gateways, they have VPNs, that you just don't have the logs on, is you just don't know. So then what tools can you put in front of them of where they can look? Because there are full logs. Well, as long as they turned on the flow logs when they built it, and there's like, each one of those little things that well, if they'd had decided to do that, when they built it, it's there. But if you can come in later to really supplement that with training to actual troubleshoot, and do a packet capture here, as it's going through, then teaching them how to read that even. >> Yeah, Toby, we were talking before we came on up on stage about your career, you've been networking all your time, and then, you're now mentoring a lot of younger people. How is that going? Because the people who come in fresh they don't have all the old war stories, like they don't talk about it, There's never for, I walk in bare feet in the snow when I was your age, I mean, it's so easy now, right, they say. What's your take on how you train the young People. >> So I've noticed two things. One is that they are up to speed a lot faster in generalities of networking. They can tell you what a network is in high school level now, where I didn't learn that til midway through my career, and they're learning it faster, but they don't necessarily understand why it's that way here. Everybody thinks that it's always slash 24 for a subnet, and they don't understand why you can break it down smaller, why it's really necessary. So the ramp up speed is much faster for these guys that are coming in. But they don't understand why and they need some of that background knowledge to see where it's coming from, and why is it important, and that's old guys, that's where we thrive. >> Jennifer, you mentioned you got in from the Marines, it helps, but when you got into networking, what was it like then and compare it now? Because most like we heard earlier static versus dynamic Don't be static is like that. You just set the network, you got a perimeter. >> Yeah, no, there was no such thing. So back in the day, I mean, we had Banyan vines for email, and we had token ring, and I had to set up token ring networks and figure out why that didn't work. Because how many of things were actually sharing it. But then actually just cutting fiber and running fiber cables and dropping them over shelters to plug them in and all crap, they swung it too hard and shattered it and now I got to figure eight Polish this thing and actually should like to see if it works. I mean, that was the network , current cat five cables to run an Ethernet, and then from that I just said, network switches, dumb switches, like those were the most common ones you had. Then actually configuring routers and logging into a Cisco router and actually knowing how to configure that. It was funny because I had gone all the way up, I was the software product manager for a while. So I've gone all the way up the stack, and then two and a half, three years ago, I came across to work with Entity group that became Viqtor Davis. But we went to help one of our customers Avis, and it was like, okay, so we need to fix the network. Okay, I haven't done this in 20 years, but all right, let's get to it. Because it really fundamentally does not change. It's still the network. I mean, I've had people tell me, Well, when we go to containers, we will not have to worry about the network. And I'm like, yeah, you don't I do. >> And that's within programmability is a really interesting, so I think this brings up the certification. What are some of the new things that people should be aware of that come in with the Aviatrix A certification? What are some of the highlights? Can you guys share some of the highlights around the certifications? >> I think some of the importance is that it doesn't need to be vendor specific for network generality or basic networking knowledge, and instead of learning how Cisco does something, or how Palo Alto does something, We need to understand how and why it works as a basic model, and then understand how each vendor has gone about that problem and solved it in a general. That's true in multicloud as well. You can't learn how Cloud networking works without understanding how AWS and Azure and GCP are all slightly the same but slightly different, and some things work and some things don't. I think that's probably the number one take. >> I think having a certification across Clouds is really valuable because we heard the global s eyes as you have a business issues. What does it mean to do that? Is it code, is it networking? Is it configurations of the Aviatrix? what is, he says,the certification but, what is it about the multiCloud that makes it multi networking and multi vendor? >> The easy answer is yes, >> Yes is all of us. >> All of us. So you got to be in general what's good your hands and all You have to be. Right, it takes experience. Because every Cloud vendor has their own certification. Whether that's SOPs and advanced networking and event security, or whatever it might be, yeah, they can take the test, but they have no idea how to figure out what's wrong with that system. The same thing with any certification, but it's really getting your hands in there, and actually having to troubleshoot the problems, actually work the problem, and calm down. It's going to be okay. I mean, because I don't know how many calls I've been on or even had aviators join me on. It's like, okay, so everyone calm down, let's figure out what's happening. It's like, we've looked at that screen three times, looking at it again is not going to solve that problem, right. But at the same time, remaining calm but knowing that it really is, I'm getting a packet from here to go over here, it's not working, so what could be the problem? Actually stepping them through those scenarios, but that's like, you only get that by having to do it, and seeing it, and going through it, and then you get it. >> I have a question, so, I just see it. We started this program maybe six months ago, we're seeing a huge amount of interest. I mean, we're oversubscribed on all the training sessions. We've got people flying from around the country, even with Coronavirus, flying to go to Seattle to go to these events where we're subscribed, is that-- >> A good emerging leader would put there. >> Yeah. So, is that something that you see in your organizations? Are you recommending that to people? Do you see, I mean, I'm just, I guess I'm surprised or not surprised. But I'm really surprised by the demand if you would, of this MultiCloud network certification because there really isn't anything like that. Is that something you guys can comment on? Or do you see the same things in your organization? >> I see from my side, because we operate in a multiCloud environments that really helps and some beneficial for us. >> Yeah, true. I think I would add that networking guys have always needed to use certifications to prove that they know what they know. >> Right. >> It's not good enough to say, Yeah, I know IP addresses or I know how a network works. A couple little check marks or a little letters body writing helps give you validity. So even in our team, we can say, Hey, we're using these certifications to know that you know enough of the basics and enough of the understandings, that you have the tools necessary, right. >> I guess my final question for you guys is, why an ACE certification is relevant, and then second part is share with the live stream folks who aren't yet ACE certified or might want to jump in to be aviatrix certified engineers. Why is it important, so why is it relevant and why should someone want to be a certified aviatrix certified engineer? >> I think my views a little different. I think certification comes from proving that you have the knowledge, not proving that you get a certification to get an army there backwards. So when you've got the training and the understanding and you use that to prove and you can, like, grow your certification list with it, versus studying for a test to get a certification and have no understanding of it. >> Okay, so that who is the right person that look at this and say, I'm qualified, is it a network engineer, is it a DevOps person? What's your view, a little certain. >> I think Cloud is really the answer. It's the, as we talked like the edges getting eroded, so is the network definition getting eroded? We're getting more and more of some network, some DevOps, some security, lots and lots of security, because network is so involved in so many of them. That's just the next progression. >> Do you want to add something there? >> I would say expand that to more automation engineers, because we have those now, so I probably extend it beyond this one. >> Jennifer you want to? >> Well, I think the training classes themselves are helpful, especially the entry level ones for people who may be "Cloud architects" but have never done anything in networking for them to understand why we need those things to really work, whether or not they go through to eventually get a certification is something different. But I really think fundamentally understanding how these things work, it makes them a better architect, makes them better application developer. But even more so as you deploy more of your applications into the Cloud, really getting an understanding, even from people who have traditionally done Onprem networking, they can understand how that's going to work in Cloud. >> Well, I know we've got just under 30 seconds left. I want to get one more question then just one more, for the folks watching that are maybe younger than, that don't have that networking training. From your experiences each of you can answer why should they know about networking, what's the benefit? What's in it for them? Motivate them, share some insights of why they should go a little bit deeper in networking. Stacy, we'll start with you, we'll go then. >> I'll say it's probably fundamental, right? If you want to deliver solutions, networking is the very top. >> I would say if you, fundamental of an operating system running on a machine, how those machines start together is a fundamental changes, something that start from the base and work your way up. >> Jennifer? >> Right, well, I think it's a challenge. Because you've come from top down, now you're going to start looking from bottom up, and you want those different systems to cross-communicate, and say you've built something, and you're overlapping IP space, note that that doesn't happen. But how can I actually make that still operate without having to re IP re platform. Just like those challenges, like those younger developers or assistant engineers can really start to get their hands around and understand those complexities and bring that forward in their career. >> They get to know then how the pipes are working, and they're got to know it--it's the plumbing. >> That's right, >> They got to know how it works, and how to code it. >> That's right. >> Awesome, thank you guys for great insights, ACE Certified Engineers, also known as ACEs, give them a round of applause. (audience clapping) (upbeat music) >> Thank you, okay. All right, that concludes my portion. Thank you, Steve Thanks for having me. >> John, thank you very much, that was fantastic. Everybody round of applause for John Furrier. (audience applauding) Yeah, so great event, great event. I'm not going to take long, we got lunch outside for the people here, just a couple of things. Just to call the action, right? So we saw the ACEs, for those of you out of the stream here, become a certified, right, it's great for your career, it's great for not knowledge, is fantastic. It's not just an aviator's thing, it's going to teach you about Cloud networking, MultiCloud networking, with a little bit of aviatrix, exactly like the Cisco CCIE program was for IP network, that type of the thing, that's number one. Second thing is learning, right? So there's a link up there to join the community. Again like I started this, this is a community, this is the kickoff to this community, and it's a movement. So go to community.avh.com, starting a community of multiCloud. So get get trained, learn. I'd say the next thing is we're doing over 100 seminars across the United States and also starting into Europe soon, we will come out and we'll actually spend a couple hours and talk about architecture, and talk about those beginning things. For those of you on the livestream in here as well, we're coming to a city near you, go to one of those events, it's a great way to network with other people that are in the industry, as well as to start alone and get on that MultiCloud journey. Then I'd say the last thing is, we haven't talked a lot about what Aviatrix does here, and that's intentional. We want you leaving with wanting to know more, and schedule, get with us and schedule a multi hour architecture workshop session. So we sit down with customers, and we talk about where they're at in that journey, and more importantly, where they're going, and define that end state architecture from networking, computer, storage, everything. Everything you've heard today, everybody panel kept talking about architecture, talking about operations. Those are the types of things that we solve, we help you define that canonical architecture, that system architecture, that's yours. So many of our customers, they have three by five, plotted lucid charts, architecture drawings, and it's the customer name slash Aviatrix, network architecture, and they put it on their whiteboard. That's the most valuable thing they get from us. So this becomes their 20 year network architecture drawing that they don't do anything without talking to us and look at that architecture. That's what we do in these multi hour workshop sessions with customers, and that's super, super powerful. So if you're interested, definitely call us, and let's schedule that with our team. So anyway, I just want to thank everybody on the livestream. Thank everybody here. Hopefully it was it was very useful. I think it was, and Join the movement, and for those of you here, join us for lunch, and thank you very much. (audience applauding) (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from New Orleans, Lousiana, it's theCUBE! Covering .NEXT Conference, 2018. Brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, here at Nutanix .NEXT 2018 in New Orleans, Louisiana. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host this week been Keith Townsend. Happy to welcome to the program two first time guests, we have Rodney Foreman, who's the Vice President of Global Channel sales at Nutanix. Thanks for joining us Rodney. >> Thank you. >> And we've got Deborah Bannworth, who's the Senior Vice President of Alliances and Inside Sales at Sirius, not the radio but the channel partner. >> And you got the last name right, so thank you very much, good to see you. >> Stu: I'm glad I didn't lose that bet. >> Deborah: You practiced well, you practiced well. >> Rodney, let's start with you. You're new to the role, a lot going on in the channel, I definitely noticed when I came to the show this year, the X Ball hall has a whole area of the channel partners. There's obviously been channels since day one from Nutanix, but, you know, big emphasis here at the show, so, tell us what's new and tell us what brought you to Nutanix. >> Yeah, so my background is I ran the cloud channel business at IBM for that middleware channel business for years. I joined Nutanix in January, and since January we've been making a lot of progress. We're evolving and changing our channel program, into a industry leading channel charter, that we can all be proud of and that will make our partners more successful in the market. I'm pleased with the event, we've got a record number of partners here, last count was 1600. We had so many partners that the partner exchange keynote was overflowed, and we had to stop letting people in. The room was overfull and so we made some exciting announcements there. Acknowledged the partners for all the new customers they're bringing Nutanix, helping us grow our market share. All of the success we're having with customers is in large part due to our partners because of successful implementations that our partners are driving. And I'm very very excited to be a part of the Nutanix team, and working with partners like Sirius, who I worked with at IBM, and now we're working together at Nutanix, and driving a lot of success in the market together. >> Great so Deborah, I got to know Sirius some through the virtualization community over the years, so give us a little bit about your background, for those that don't know Sirius, give us kind of-- >> So I've had the privilege, the distinct privilege of being at Sirius for a little over 21 years now, so I've seen a lot of change, internal and external, and my role at Sirius is I have responsibility for all of our partnerships, nationally, as well as inside sales, so a little bit of the two prerogative approaches here at Sirius. We have enjoyed, and I actually look you in the eye and tell you, we have sincerely enjoyed the partnership that we have with Nutanix, because it is just that, it is a partnership. It's a win win, and it's something that started in late 2013 for us, and it was something that our technology community, right, our technical and as well as our architecture folks actually take a look and said HCI could bring a lot of value to our client set, and we entered into that partnership and it has been a phenomenal success for us, hopefully you have seen the same, and we see nothing but growth for both of us. >> And Deborah, for those that don't know tell us what GO is Sirius in, what's kind of the breadth of portfolio that you offer. >> So Sirius today continues to grow, and we are North America basically. >> I like that of the, one of the companies Sirius acquired was Viro. >> Yes, at the Carolinas. >> And they have the Viro (mumbles). >> Great group of guys. >> Great culture, so let's talk about the customer engagement. A lot of customers here, a lot of joint customers, are we to the point that, you know, we're beyond a chicken egg discussion, and customers are coming to Sirius and asking about HCI and Nutanix specifically, or do you guys have to push out the message? >> You know, it's funny, so, if i may be candid, in 2013 I would tell you we were pushing, right? Here's Nutanix, here's what they do, here's what HCI is, here's the value of HCI to your environment. Today it's no longer like that, right? It's no longer in the corner with the lights blinking and "Hey let's not tell anybody we're doing this", it is much more adopted, it's embraced, it's something that people are building off of. And what we're seeing with our clients is we're seeing a continual, my environment is complex, I need something that doesn't just do VDI, but does beyond that, and I think, interestingly enough, Nutanix has grown up, if I may say that, in that, when we started we were, we were a VDI company, no more. You're expanding across all workloads. >> I have the folks at Sirius credit, because they continue to come up with innovative ways to apply our technology in different use cases, different customer types and industries, and they are bringing us a lot of new logos, because of that innovative approach, so they're a very valuable partner to us from that perspective, in that they're reaching customers that frankly our direct sales team couldn't reach with the bag of products they had to sell. They add value, they add innovation around our technology and then we're able to extend our reach into the market, leveraging Sirius. >> I'd like to go into the cloud conversation. So when I look at the channel, it was, sometimes there was fear at the beginning days, there were plenty that had Microsoft practices that have worked along those lines. Today, Amazon's working with them and of course Nutanix is expanding how it works in all of those environments. Deborah, if you could share, how does cloud fit into it? You know, kind of with and without Nutanix. >> I don't think you can leave this event without talking about cloud, right? In and of itself, so, Sirius believes and will continue to believe in a hybrid world, right? Hybrid IT, and I think cloud is an extremely important part of that conversation. I think where Nutanix is uniquely positioned is with their enterprise cloud, and what they've done with not being just a VDI solution set anymore, they can span, and help our customers share multiple workloads within a data center, as well as and or within the cloud set. So it's an extremely important part of where we are today, more importantly where we're going with cloud. 'Cause I don't think anybody has it all set with cloud, candidly. I think a lot of us are learning. But again, I think Nutanix is uniquely positioned today, for that. >> Yeah I agree with what Deb said that you hit on something that's come out very strongly at this conference, with some of our announcements around Beam and Era, and Flow, which is hybrid cloud. Customers have hybrid cloud environments that and we bring together that private cloud, and public cloud environment seamlessly, and now we provide some intelligence behind the decisions customers are making. How much is it really costing me to have a public cloud environment versus private cloud, and where will my workloads run more effectively and efficiently, at what cost? And this is going to be technology that Sirius will be able to leverage, not only to sell in the market, but also add value into their solutions around cloud. So, we're excited about being able to provide technology and tools that Sirius can use to extend their value proposition, to be more competitive in the market as well. >> And this is what Nutanix is doing so well to Rodney's point, they continue to innovate, right? Again, kind of what got them to where they are today is not going to be the same thing that kind of gets you to where you want to be as a company, and you continue to innovate, and we see that and we need that, because ultimately, at the end of the day, our respective, our bosses if you would are our clients, we have to make sure that we're making that complex environment less complex for them. And much more open. >> Yeah, I mean we're proud of being in that upper right in the magic quadrant, but let me tell you there's others that are in that magic quadrant behind us that want to take that spot back. And we know that, so we have to continue innovation at a very fast pace, which you're seeing from us, to continue to move hopefully in a whole nother zip code from our competitors, which our partners benefit from. And it allows them the freedom to sell more into the market, leveraging that innovation that we continue to drive and I don't see the rate and pace of that ending anytime soon. >> So Deborah let's talk a little bit about the value that Nutanix has brought with abstracting the software even further from the hardware, after Norr becoming a appliance company is now a software company. What flexibility does that give Sirius when it got to talk to customers, when it talked to platforms that Nutanix has partnerships with, and platforms that they support, but not naturally have partnerships with. What are those customer conversations like? >> Yeah, this is interesting, especially from a company that started in 1980. >> Rodney: We've had several conversations about this. >> Many conversations about this. Yeah well, I'm going to make it short though Rodney, how about that? But again when you take a look at our customer environment now, I mean, our job is to make sure that we're bringing best of breed technology. But more important, that it's open. And what's Nutanix brings to the table. It's an open environment, being able to utilize different technologies together to collaborate, I mean just take a look at the floor today. Who would've thought that IBM and Nutanix would be sitting at the same table? Truly, and I say that in a very positive way. It enables us to take, a great example is IBM and Nutanix, it enables us to take that strength, and that power of IBM power AIX, meld it with the Nutanix solution, being able to create a much more powerful and open environment forum. So it's being able to be agnostic and an integrator for our clients. >> I wonder if you can expand a little bit, the power one something that not everybody fully understands. It's often starting with a different set of applications, adding AIX into there, what are you hearing from customers, what's so attractive? >> So I think with the announcement this week I think it was a lot of discussion before kicking tires, I think what you're going to see in the 30 to 60 days are people are actually going to start allowing those conversations to go deeper and wider within their existing customer base. Because again, Sirius is privileged to have one of the largest, if not the largest in North America IBM power base. It enables us to go back in and have relevant conversations and say, "Let's get a little bit open, with Nutanix as a software". >> So Stu let's face it, not every customer of IBM has the latest power system. (all laughing) I mean, that's a fact. >> We've tried Rodney, we've tried. >> So that's opportunity for us, and I think the customers are going to be very excited about this offering, because they've not all upgraded, a lot of them have old, power sucking, you know, old power systems on AIX and they are welcoming this solution and opportunity to upgrade, and modernize their data centers, leveraging this offering and certainly Sirius is a long time top IBM partner, and those customers, IBM customers, look to Sirius for solutions, and look to Sirius to advance their infrastructure, modernize it, this is a great opportunity for both us, leveraging this announcement and what we're bringing out to the market with IBM. >> So outside of power, what's the exciting buzz at the show? What have customers, that you guys talk to, generally said, "You know what? We got to have this tomorrow". >> Right. >> So, I have to be selfish a little bit, I'll tell you that the buzz for us and the 54 team members that are here from Sirius, I would tell you I would be remiss not to thank you know, Rodney and Sherry and the rest of the executive team for recognizing Sirius as the US Partner Of The Year. That is quite a buzz, and one that we will continue to discuss throughout the show. I tell you that, for us right now, when we take a look at the most opportunistic way of going back into our client sets now and offering a solution, would be the IBM piece. The IBM power AIX announcement is probably one of the key opportunities for us to go back in and offer value to our client sets. That's probably the biggest, the buzz for us today. >> Yeah, and I tell you that, they should be very very proud of this award because one of the things I did, taking over the channel, and leading into this event, is we had a lot of awards before. I mean, it was like a nine year old soccer game. Everybody got a trophy. And I reduced the number of awards down significantly because I wanted more press coverage, I wanted more recognition, and I wanted it to mean something. So winning this award for Sirius, there was some tough competition, they're against some big partners, and Sirius really, you know, comes to the top of the heap, clearly with some of the investment and focus and what they're achieving in the market with us, so, it's no longer a nine year old soccer trophy, I mean they really accomplished something. Yeah in winning this award, so congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Rodney, so last thing I want to ask, it's competitive in the channel these days. >> It is, very. >> Sirius has a broad spectrum of partners, what do you want people to take away from the show about Nutanix's commitment to the channel? >> Well, we announced a new channel charter, okay, and I call it a channel charter on purpose as opposed to a channel program, for a reason, because it's different. It's not the same old channel program with platinum, bronze, and gold, and the tearing, and the same old thing, we have to differentiate ourself in the market from other channel programs. We are evolving as a company to be that provider of solutions in the multi cloud era. Which means you can't have the same old channel programs anymore, and deliver in that type of market and environment. So, I'm excited about the channel charter we've defined in our rolling out into the market, it is clearly different than any other provider, different than our competitors, and it's going to help our partners both large and small, to be effective in selling our solutions in the market with competitive rewards, and financial benefits as well as the ability to build skills, drive pipeline, across our ecosystem of partners that we have for Nutanix. So, I'm very excited about what we've announced, and I think it's going to differentiate us from the rest. >> Deborah, congratulations on the award. >> Deborah: Thank you very much. >> Rodney, thank you for all the updates, great to see you, you know, it's the technology, the channel, everything we're hearing here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For Keith Townsend, I'm Stu Miniman, thank you for watching theCUBE. >> Deborah: Thanks for having us. Rodney, thank you. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE, covering .conf2017. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome back. Here on theCUBE, we continue our coverage of .conf2017, Splunk's get together here with some 7,000 plus attendees, 65 countries, we're right on the showfloor. A lot of buzz happening down here and it's all good. Along with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. We are live, as I said, in our nation's capital, and we're joined by a guest who represents her organization that is a member of the Splunk4Good program. We're going to explain that in just a little bit, but Sherrie Caltagirone is the founder and executive director of the Global Emancipation Network, and Sherry, thanks for being with us. We appreciate your time. >> Thanks so much for having me on, John. >> So your organization has to do with countering and combating global trafficking, human trafficking. >> That's right. >> We think about sex trafficking, labor trafficking, but you're a participant in the Splunk4Good program, which is their ten year pledge to support organizations such as yours to the tune of up to $100 million over that ten years to all kinds of organizations. So first off, let's just talk about that process, how you got involved, and then we want to get into how you're actually using this data that you're mining right now for your work. So first off, how'd you get involved with Splunk? >> Absolutely. It was really organic in that it's a really small community. There are a lot of people in the tech space who I found really want to use their skills for good, and they're very happy to make connections between people. We had a mutual friend actually introduce me to Monzy Merza, who's the head of security here at Splunk, and he said, "I'm really passionate about trafficking, I want to help "fight trafficking, let me connect you with Corey Marshall "at Splunk4Good." The rest is really history, and I have to tell you, yes, they have pledged up to $100 million to help, and in products and services, but what's more is they really individually care about our projects and that they are helping me build things, I call them up all the time and say, "Hey let's brainstorm an idea, "let's solve a problem, "let's figure out how we can do this together, and they really are, they're part of my family. They're part of GEN and Global Emancipation Network. >> That's outstanding. The size of the problem struck me today at the keynote when we talked about, first off, the various forms of trafficking that are going on; you said up to two dozen different subsets of trafficking, and then the size and the scale of 25 to 40-some million people around the globe are suffering. >> Yeah. >> Because of trafficking conditions. That puts it all in a really different perspective. >> You're right. Those weren't even numbers that we can really fathom what that means, can we? We don't know what 20 million looks like, and you're right, there's such a wide discrepancy between the numbers. 20 million, 46 million, maybe somewhere in between, and that is exactly part of the problem that we have is that there is no reliable data. Everyone silos their individual parts of the data that they have for trafficking, all the the different stakeholders. That's government, NGOs, law enforcement, academia, it's all kinds. It runs the gamut, really, and so it's really difficult to figure out exactly what the truth is. There's no reliable, repeatable way to count trafficking, so right now it's mostly anecdotal. It's NGOs reporting up to governments that say, "We've impacted this many victims," or, "We've encountered so-and-so who said that the "trafficking ring that they escaped from had 20 other people "in it," things like that, so it's really just an estimate, and it's the best that we have right now, but with a datalet approach, hopefully we'll get closer to a real accurate number. >> So talk more about the problem and the root of the problem, how it's manifesting itself, and we'll get into sort of what we can do about it. >> Yeah. It's really interesting in that a lot of the things that cause poverty are the same things that cause trafficking. It really is, you know, people become very vulnerable if they don't have a solid source of income or employment, things like that, so they are more willing to do whatever's necessary in order to do that, so it's easy to be lured into a situation where you can be exploited, for example, the refugee crisis right now that's happening across Europe and the Middle East is a major player for trafficking. It's a situation completely ripe for this, so people who are refugees who perhaps are willing to be smuggled out of the country, illegally, of course, but then at that point they are in the mercy and the hands of the people who smuggled them and it's very easy for them to become trafficked. Things like poverty, other ways that you're marginalized, the LGBTQ community is particularly vulnerable, homeless population, a lot of the same issues that you see in other problems come up, creates a situation of vulnerability to be exploited, and that's all trafficking really is: the exploitation of one individual through force, coercion, fraud, position of authority, to benefit another person. >> These individuals are essentially what, enslaved? >> Yeah. It's modern day slavery. There's lots of different forms, as you mentioned. There's labor trafficking, and that's several different forms; it can be that you're in a brick factory, or maybe you're forced into a fishing boat for years and years. Usually they take away your passport if you are from another country. There's usually some threats. They know where your family lives. If you go tell anyone or you run away, they're going to kill your family, those sorts of things. It is, it's modern day slavery, but on a much, much bigger scale, so it's no longer legal, but it still happens. >> How does data help solve the problem? You, as an executive director, what kind of data, when you set the North Star for the organization from a data perspective, what did that look like, and how is it coming into play? >> Well, one of the benefits that we have as an organization that's countering trafficking is that we are able to turn the tables on traffickers. They are using the internet in much the way that other private enterprises are. They know that that's how they move their product, which in this case is sadly human beings. They advertise for victims online. They recruit people online. They're using social media apps and things like Facebook and Kick and Whatsapp and whatnot. Then they are advertising openly for the people that they have recruited into trafficking, and then they are trying to sell their services, so for example, everyone knows about Backpage. There's hundreds of websites like that. It runs the gamut. They're recruiting people through false job advertisements, so we find where those sites are through lots of human intelligence and we're talking to lots of people all the time, and we gather those, and we try to look for patterns to identify who are the victims, who are the traffickers, what can we do about it? The data, to get back to your original question, is really what is going to inform policy to have a real change. >> So you can, in terms of I guess the forensics that you're doing, or whatever you're doing with that data, you're looking at not only the websites, but also the communications that are being spawned by those sites and looking to where those networks are branching off to? >> Yeah. That's one of the things that we really like to try to do. Instead of getting a low-level person, we like to try to build up an entire network so we can take down an entire ring instead of just the low fish. We do, we extract all the data from the website that we can to pull out names, email addresses, physical addresses, phone numbers, things like that, and then begin to make correlations; where else have we seen those phone numbers and those addresses on these other websites that we're collecting from, or did this person make a mistake, which we love to exploit mistakes with traffickers, and are they using the same user handle on their personal Flickr page, so then we can begin to get an attribution. >> John: That happens? >> Absolutely. >> It does, yeah. >> Sherrie: Without giving away all my secrets, exactly. >> Yeah, I don't to, don't give away the store, here. How much, then, are you looking internationally as opposed to domestically, then? >> We collect right now from 22 different countries, I think 77 individual cities, so a lot of these websites are usually very jurisdictionally specific, so, you know, like Craigslist; you go into Washington state and click on Seattle, something like that. We harvest from the main trafficking points that we can. We're collecting in six different languages right now. A lot of the data that we have right now is from the U.S. because that's the easier way to start is the low-hanging fish. >> What does your partner ecosystem look like? It comprises law enforcement, local agencies, federal agencies, presumably, NGOs. Will you describe that? >> Yeah. We do, we partner with attorneys general, we partner with law enforcement, those are the sort of operational partners we look for when we have built out intelligence. Who do we give it to now, because data is useless unless we do something with it, right? So we we build out these target packages and intelligence and give it to people who can do something with it, so those are really easy people to do something with. >> How hard is that, because you've got different jurisdictions and different policies, and it's got to be like herding cats to get guys working with you. >> It is, and it's actually something that they're begging for, and so, it's a good tool that they can use to deconflict with each other, 'cause they are running different trafficking-related operations all the time, and jurisdictions, they overlap in many cases, especially when you're talking about moving people, and they're going from one state to another state, so you have several jurisdictions and you need to deconflict your programs. >> Okay, so they're very receptive to you guys coming to them with they data. >> They are; they really want help, and they're strapped for resources. These are for the most part, not technically savvy people, and this is one of the good things about our nonprofit is that it is a staff of people who are very tech-savvy and who are very patient in explaining it and making it easy and usable and consumable by our customers. >> So if I'm an NGO out there, I'm a non-profit out there, and I'm very interested in having this kind of service, what would you say to them about what they can pursue, what kind of relationship you have with Splunk and the value they're providing, and what your experience has been so far. >> It's been wonderful. I've been over at the Splunk4Good booth all day helping out and it's been wonderful to see not only just the non-profits who have come up and said, "Hey, I run a church, "I'm trying to start a homeless shelter for drug-addicted "individuals, how can you help me," and it's wonderful when you start to see the light bulbs go off between the non-profit sector and the tech sector, between the philanthropic organizations like Splunk4Good, the non-profits, and then, we can't forget the third major important part here, which is, those are the tech volunteers, these are the people who are here at the conference and who are Splunk employees and whatnot and teaching them that they can use their skills for good in the non-profit sector. >> Has cryptocurrency, where people can conduct anonymous transactions, made your job a lot more difficult? >> No, it hasn't, and there's been a lot of research that has gone into block chain analysis, so for example, Backpage, all the adds are purchased with Bitcoin, and so there's been a wonderful amount of research then, trying to time the post to when the Bitcoin was purchased, and when the transactions happen, so they've done that, and it's really successful. There are a couple of other companies who do just that, like Chainalysis, that we partner with. >> You can use data to deanonymize? >> That's correct. It's not as anonymous as people think it is. >> Love it. >> Yeah, exactly. We love to exploit those little things like that. A lot of the websites, they put their wallets out there, and then we use that. >> Dave: You're like reverse hackers. >> That's right. It's interesting that you say that, because a lot of our volunteers actually are, they're hacker hunters. They're threat and intel analysts and whatnot, and so, they've learned that they can apply the exact same methods and techniques into our field, so it's brilliant to see the ways in which they do that. >> Dave: That's a judo move on the bad guys. >> Exactly. How long does this go on for you? Is this a year-to-year that you renew, or is it a multi-year commitment, how does that work? >> It's a year-to-year that we renew our pledge, but they're in it for the long haul with us, so they know that they're not getting rid of me and nor do they want me to, which is wonderful. It's so good, because they help, they sit at the table with me, always brainstorming, so it's year-to-year technically, but I know that we're in it together for the long haul. >> How about fundraising? A big part of your job is, you know. >> Of course it is. >> Fundraising. You spend a lot of time there. Maybe talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, absolutely. Some of our goals right now, for example, is we're really looking to hire a full-time developer, we want a full-time intelligence analyst, so we're always looking to raise donations, so you could donate on our website. >> John: Which is? >> Which is globalemancipation.ngo. Globalemancipation.ngo. We're also always looking for people who are willing to help donate their time and their skills and whatnot. We have a couple of fundraising goals right now. We're always looking for that. We receive a lot of product donations from companies all over the world, mostly from the tech sector. We're really blessed in that we aren't spending a lot of money on that, but we do need to hire a couple of people so that's our next big goal. >> I should have asked you this off the top. Among your titles, executive director and founder, what was the founder part? What motivated you to get involved in this, because it's, I mean, there are a lot of opportunities to do non-profit work, but this one found you, or you found it. >> That's right. It's a happy circumstance. I've always done anti-human trafficking, since my college days, actually. I started volunteering, or I started to intern at the Protection Project at Johns Hopkins University, which was a legislative-based program, so it was really fantastic, traveling the world, helping countries draft legislation on trafficking, but I really wanted to get closer and begin to measure my impact, so that's when I started thinking about data anyways, to be able to put our thumb, is what we're doing. Working. How are we going to be able to measure success and what does that look like? Then I started volunteering for a rescue operations organization; the sort of knock down the doors, go rescue people group, and so, I really liked having the closer impact and being able to feel like hey, I can do something about this problem that I know is terrible and that's why it spread. A lot of the people I worked with, including my husband, come from the cyberthreat intelligence world, so I feel like those ideas and values have been steeped in me, slowly and surely, over the last decade, so that just ages myself a little bit maybe, but yes, so those ideas have been percolating over time, so it just kind of happened that way. >> Well, you want to feel young, hang around with us. (laughing) I should speak for myself, John, I'm sorry. >> No, no, you're right on, believe me. I was nodding my head right there with you. >> Can you comment on the media coverage? Is it adequate in your view? Does there need to be more? >> On trafficking itself? You know, it's really good that it's starting to come into the forefront a lot more. I'm hearing about it. Five years ago, most of the time, if I told people that there are still people in slavery, it didn't end with the Civil War, they would stand at me slackjawed. There have been a few big media pushes. There's been some films, like Taken, Liam Neeson's film, so that's always the image I use, and that's just one type of trafficking, but I'm hearing more and more. Ashton Kutcher runs a foundation called Thorn that's really fantastic and they do a similar mission to what I do. He has been able to raise the spotlight a lot. Currently there's a debate on the floor of the Senate right now, too, talking about section 230 of the CDA, which is sort of centered around the Backpage debate anyway. Where do we draw the line between the freedom of speech on the internet, with ESPs in particular, but being able to still catch bad guys exactly. The Backpage sort of founder idea. It's really hot and present in the news right now. I would love to see the media start to ask questions, drill down into the data, to be able to ask and answer those real questions, so we're hoping that Global Emancipation Network will do that for the media and for policy makers around the world. >> Well it is extraordinary work being done by an extraordinary person. It's a privilege to have you on with us, here on theCUBE. We thank you, not only for the time, but for the work you're doing, and good luck with that. >> Thank you very much for having me on. I really appreciate it. >> You bet. That's the Global Emancipation Network. Globalemancipation.ngo right? Fundraising, always helpful. Back with more here on theCUBE in Washington D.C., right after this. (electronic beats)