>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Magento Imagine 2019, brought to you by Adobe. >> Hey, welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Jeff Frick. We're coming to you live from Magento Imagine 2019. Welcoming to theCUBE for the first time Gary Specter, the VP of Commerce, Sales and Customer Success at Adobe. Gary, welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you, I'm thrilled to be here. >> So there's about 3,500 people here, you guys have, from 60-plus countries. >> Gary: That's right. >> I think 100 sessions, 150 speakers. People coming down from ceilings, up from the floor. >> Gary: And we're streaming live. >> First ever live stream, yes. >> On the general set, first ever. That's right. Someone tweeted out that there are 35,000 people watching. >> Marketing probably loved that and then had a heart attack at the same time. >> Yeah, I'm sure they did. Not exactly accurate but I'll take what I can get. >> Tell us about the event, the spirit of the event. This is kind of, yesterday evening things kicked off. What of some of the things you've hearing from customers, partners, developers? >> So, I think the thing that's really unique about Imagine is that it does involve partners, the community, developers, along with Magento and our customers and our prospects. And it makes it really different because the developer community and our partners are so passionate about Magento. And I think everybody feels really good about the marriage of Adobe and Magento. You had technologies that were very well aligned, not overlapping. It enables us to extend the capabilities of what we can do from both the Adobe side or the Magento side. I like to say that the color palette got a lot bigger, and I think there's a lot of excitement around that and what that means to all of these people, developers, partners, the ecosystem, customers, prospects. So the energy is really high. I think obviously people are, what's next? And what does this mean for Magento? And I think it means investment, I think it means a higher rate of agility and an expansion of what we do. Acceleration of our roadmap. So I think people are very, very positive. And this is my fourth Imagine, and it's really, I've never felt the energy higher than at this Imagine. So it's exciting for me. >> Gary, one of the interesting ways that you talked about community and everybody wants developer communities, right? And you guys also have open source as a passion. But you phrased it in a way I've never heard before, is that you like going to sleep at night knowing that there's a whole bunch of other CEOs betting their business-- >> That's right. >> On this platform. >> Yeah. >> And it's not just you guys, so it's a really different way to think about open source. We often think of the developers and there's smart people outside your four walls contributing code. But it's not often couched in terms of the business terms. >> No. >> If there's are other people betting their business, thinking about how are they gonna help grow your business by building their business on top of Magento. >> That's what drives the passion of the community. These people realize that there's a symbiotic relationship here. If Magento successful, the ability for them to be successful is very broad. And if Magento's not successful, then you have to ask yourselves did I make the right bet? So a lot of our tech partners have build these great solutions on top of Magento, and it's a partnership. And you don't have that anywhere else, and again, I sleep better at night, to your point. I don't know where you got that quote, but it's actually mine, it's phenomenal. >> No, no, I think I got it from your Argentina 2017 talk perhaps. >> Actually, it's true. I know that all of these tech partners, these CEOs, they have my back. I'd like them to know I have theirs. And I don't think Adobe has any, there's no reason or rhyme why that would ever change. I think Adobe will enhance it. And I think that's why there so much excitement here. >> Well, and it's really a validation and what we talked about before, the prior segment, was now to bring the marketing tools, and the AI and all the power that's in that big building in San Jose, free the commerce transaction, really, to your point, adds so much more horse power to the total solution. >> Like I said, color palette just got a lot bigger. There's so many more things that we can do and so many more colors we can use to create these great experience for our brands and our customers, that we could've done before but it was a lot of work, but now we've got all of the makings of a platform that will enable that and we're already pretty far along in taking the Adobe experience cloud and making that work. And I'm just really excited about the future and what this offers for our customers and our brands. >> We've heard a number of guests that talk about just what you were referring to a minute ago, and that was really this symbiosis of Adobe, the power that Adobe brings, the data that Adobe brings, along with Magento, So a new Adobe commerce buy was just launched a couple of months ago, at Adobe Summit powered by Magento Commerce, but you look at it as analytics, advertising, marketing, commerce, fundamentals for managing what is a changing and highly demand customer experience, 'cause we want more and more things accessible from right here. So some of the feedback from customers, partners, developers since that announcement and now going "Ahh, okay now I can actually touch and see and play with this two symbiosis machines coming together." >> Yeah, I think it's not a hard thing to get. I think when the acquisition first happened, there's a little let's wait and see and make sure they get it right. And I think what I feel today, or what people have given to me today is the feedback that they're believers. They know that we're gonna execute on this strategy, and this strategy is gonna allow us to extend our lead on our competitors, which in return, allows these brands and these commerce players to extend their lead on their competitors. >> Let's talk about the small/medium business folks for a minute. When the announcement was made last year, the intention, right after Imagine 2018 I believe, for Adobe to acquire Magento, and then right after they acquired Marketo, there was some concern for is Adobe gonna kind of shift what Magento has been doing, so successfully for so long, away from focusing on those smaller merchants to the enterprise folks. Yesterday and today, we heard some great, exciting announcements with what you guys are doing with Amazon Sales Channel, with Google Shopping, and it sounded like the small and medium business size folks were going "Yes, this is what we need." Talk to us a little bit about that. >> I mean, you mentioned two, along with PWA and some of the other things that we're doing. While these can be leveraged in the enterprise, they were built for the mid-market in the SMB space. And there is no doubt that Adobe and Magento both understand how important SMB and the mid-market is. And in fact, we've seen acceleration in the SMB space since the acquisition, from the Magento side of the house. And Adobe is fully committed and knows that there's market share there to be had. And the application or the business problems that we solve at the enterprise, are still applicable for the mid-market and the SMB space. They're handled in a little bit different of a manner, but they have same aspirations. And the solution's gonna be able, when you look across everything that you're gonna be able to do, it plays for both markets. And Adobe has an incredible opportunity to really drive market share in this mid-market. They don't have a big footprint there today. Even if you capture just a small portion of it, and its our plans to capture a large portion of it, but even a small portion of it is gonna make a big impact on Adobe. So I think that we will see acceleration in the mid-market and in the SMB space with what we're doing, what we're developing together, and the different types of products that we can offer to those markets that Adobe has in its broader portfolio. >> And of course on the enterprise side, what we don't see here that we saw at Adobe Summit a couple weeks back are some of the really big integrators who have huge practices built around and on top of the Adobe tool set that now you get to leverage. I'm sure you're pretty excited about as running field. There's, again, a whole nother group of people, not necessarily CEOs, but managing partners, who have bet their jobs, bet their livelihood, bet their practices on this, and now you getta take advantage of those resources as well. >> Absolutely, and I think that a lot of the large integrators and partners, I think everybody's starting to understand that commerce is very different now than it was five or 10 years ago, right? I call it bite small, chew fast. And HP is a great example, where they started in some of the smaller APAC countries and then went to Brazil, and they're looking at the US last, but they're taking it a step at a time. One country, one country, one country. And a lot of our big retailers or brands that wanna expand globally are doing the same things, or companies that have portfolios of brands, one at a time. Bite small, chew fast. Launch, be successful, launch, be successful. And I think the SIs, including the large partners, understand that and they're changing the way that they look at businesses holistically. So I think right time, right place. >> Yeah, we had Gillian Campbell from HP on right after her keynote this morning, and it was an interesting kinda POC program. And I said what was some of the market dynamics that identified APAC as the right market to start in. And part of that, I think, was that from a historical legacy perspective of using Magento on the HP Inc. side. But some of the things I found interesting to them was that leveraging the data to understand the cultural e-commerce differences snd how different cultures interact with different social media platforms or purchasing platforms differently, and how important it is to really understand those commerce patterns and start to drive conversions from there there and then go success, roll it out, rinse and repeat. >> And she nailed it right? I mean, buy online, pick up in store versus having it delivered to your home, if you live in the middle of India, what's the reality of you getting that delivered in an hour? And if you look at country like Russia, which is very spread out, right, so there's not a high density outside of a lot of their major cities and you have a lot of the same issues. If you're gonna have it ship to your home, how long is it gonna take? It might be easier just to go pick it up in the store. And I think it's different in every region. And it's good to be able to have access to that data to get a good read on what are the things our customers want specifically to drive the experience they need within that region. >> Right, key for a company whether it's something the size of an HP Inc. or not, to be able to scale globally, but also have that sort of local market adaptation where you're able to react, understand the preferences in your markets, and deliver exactly what those consumers want. So having a tool like Magento as the power to enable that global scale regional adaptation, it's a driver. >> And I think you start to add complexity when you look at do they use their phone, do they use their computer? Do they use social networks and buy buttons? I have an interesting dynamic in my own house where I've got a 13-year-old, and the way that she would shop online is different than the way that my wife would shop online, which is very different from how I would shop online. I browse and go to the store. My wife uses her computer. My daughter shops on Pinterest, or Instagram, or Facebook. Very different journeys for the three of us, and we could be buying the same thing, and we're all gonna do it differently. So it crosses generations as well. >> So, Gary, it feels like kinda the dust has settled post-Adobe acquisition where everybody feels kinda comfortable, and it's been a year and everything didn't go bananas. So as you look forward now, after things have kinda settled, what are some of your priorities over the next year, If we sit down a year from now, what are you working on? >> I can tell you that for me, the biggest priority for me is to make sure that the mid-market and the SMB flywheel is effective, the way that we go to market, the way that we target that segment. And it's not that I'm not interested in the enterprise. I'm extremely interested in the enterprise. But we have a lot of people that are working on the enterprise. And Adobe doesn't have deep domain expertise around the mid-market. But with Marketo and Magento, you now do. So for me personally, I wanna make sure that that flywheel is well-run, it's well-oiled, it's set up for success, that operationally, the things that we do to drive market share in that segment run as effectively as the rest of Adobe on the enterprise side. It's a new sales motion for Adobe. But the good news is I think Adobe understands that. We understand that as a company, and I think over the next year, for me, that's where my focus is gonna be. >> So if we keep looking out to the next year, this is your fourth Magento Imagine. >> It is. >> Is there gonna be a Magento Imagine 2020? >> So I will tell you that there will be an Imagine 2020, and I will share details around that Wednesday. I've been asked to help close Imagine out, and when I do, I will be thrilled to announce our plans for Imagine 2020. >> So can folks watch that on the livestream tomorrow, Wednesday, that 15th? >> They can. >> Are you gonna be coming up from the floor, the ceiling? >> I think I'm probably just gonna dance on out. I have been invigorated, I love being here. Imagine is the one opportunity every year where I come out of this thing just feeling really good about the opportunities that we had ahead of us. And by Wednesday, although tired, I'm usually really happy to be going back and getting in the field with my teams and just driving opportunity. And I think we had an amazing one. >> Well, we'll be all watching. Is it imagine.magento.com to watch the livestream ? Or magento.imagine.com. go to to the Magento.com site, Wednesday tomorrow in the afternoon, you're gonna be able to hear more about what's to come next year. Gary, thank you so much for giving us time today. >> Thanks for having me, enjoy it. >> Our pleasure. >> It's great to meet you all. >> Excellent >> Thank you. >> For Jeff Frick, I'm Lisa Martin. Tou're watching theCUBE live from Magento Imagine 2019 from Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering Magento Imagine 2019, brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome to the theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin at The Wynn, in Las Vegas for Magento Imagine 2019. This is a three day event. You can hear a lot of exciting folks networking behind me, talking tech, talking e-commerce innovation and we're pleased to welcome fresh off the keynote stage a couple of guests from HP. We've got Gillian Campbell, the Head of Omni-channel Strategy and Operations. Gillian, thank you for joining us. >> Thank you for asking us. >> Our pleasure and Herriot Stobo, Director of Omni-channel Innovation and Solutions, also from HP. Welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> So Gillian fresh off the keynote stage, enjoyed your presentation this morning. >> Gillian: Thank you. >> Everybody I think in the world knows HP. Those of us consumers going, you know what actually, that reminds me, I need a new printer. >> We can help you. >> Thank you, excellent. Whether I'm shopping online or in a store. So you gave this really interesting keynote this morning talking about what HP is doing, starting at Apache. You really transform this shopping experience. Talk to us a little bit about HP, as I think you've mentioned it as a $50 billion start up and from a digital experience perspective, what you needed to enable. >> Yeah, so as I said, HP have been around for 80 years and in 2015, we became our own entity, HP Inc., and really started looking at how do we enable digital to be pervasive through everything that we do. Our internal processes are reached to customers and identified a great opportunity to really take leading edge and our digital commerce capabilities and we already had some early proof points and APG so we launched a global initiative and we're now on that journey to enable that best in class experience through the digital platforms. >> So Herriot talk to us about, you're based in Singapore. >> Yes. >> What were some of the market dynamics that really made it obvious that this is where we want to start building out this omni-channel strategy starting in Apache? Is it, you know whether, Gillian you mentioned it before. We started retail spaces, some being expensive. Is it more mobile experience and expectations on consumer's part? >> I think we've got a mix of different starting points across Asia. We've got some mega cities like Hong Kong and Singapore rising, Tokyo. And then we've got you know emerging markets across South-East Asia. We don't necessarily have any single market place that controls the entire market as we might see in other regions and so we've had a lot of runway to go and experiment and try new things. We also have an ecosystem of branded retail in Asia. Not in all markets, predominantly in India but also in some markets in South-East Asia that allow us to really blend the experience across both offline and online and to give customers choice at the end of the day. Let them decide how they want to shop and interact with our brand. So we have been running Magento 1 since we first launched our online store businesses in Indonesia and Thailand about six years ago and then we moved into China, replatformed, lexi-platform onto Magento 1 and then that was really the foundation of what we decided to go and build upon to become a global program. so we already had some proof points under our belt with Magento so. >> And what were some of those early wins that really started to make this really obvious that this omni-channel experience, the ability to give customers choice? Whether they want to start the process online, finish it in store, vice verse, or at least have the opportunity to have a choice? What were some of those early wins and business outcomes that you started to see? >> I think even just from because we're all, customers are people. Whether you're a corporate customer, a small business, or a consumer, we're all people and we all know that we shop that way. So essentially the storyline on that back to HP was we have to enable experiences that we would want to experience as well and it was quite a shift for a tech company who were really all about the products to be thinking about, well, how do we really enable that end to end experience? And as Herriot said, the runway was open. We already had some proof points. I was new in the job so I was like all listening to, you know, what the team were telling me. We have a great opportunity here and took that formered as a new concept for the company. We got funding approval and you know the rest is the history and the journey that we're on. So I think it was just taking a different perspective and a different approach and working with a team who already had the, built some of that credibility and others proof points with the earlier deployments and I think we kind of took a risk at the time when we started the engagement with Magento. They weren't in that leadership quadrant and we took a risk to say, let's partner with an energizing company and do something a little bit different and we're still here working towards it so I think that for me was the breakthrough, was just having the tenacity to say, we're gonna drive this path forward. It may not be how we would have done things in the past, but we're a different company now. and we had much more thinner air cover to be able to do that. >> Little bit more agility and flexibility. >> Yeah, absolutely. So you guys, you talked about, Gillian about all the buyers. We are the consumers and we have this expectation, growing expectation that I want to be able to get any and transact anything that I want to buy, whether I'm a procuring person for a company and I'm traveling but I need to approve expenses or I'm a salesperson maybe sitting next to a medium-small business customer. I need to have the option at least to have this store front. What are the things that you guys launched in Apache, leverage be the power of Magento Commerce was click to collect. So tell me a little bit about from maybe an e-commerce cultural perspective, what is it that makes people want to have the ability to start online and actually complete the transaction in a physical location? >> Essentially I was in the Advisory Board yesterday and one of the other customers of Magento said, "Until we can invent a way to touch and feel online, "there's always gonna be a need to have, "outlets where you can go touch and feel." and I think with the click and collect, some of our products are, you know, high-end PCs and gaming devices and printers that is hard to get a good appreciation of what it looks and feels like online. So if you're gonna be spending you know, a significant money you may want to go in and be able to see the colors, feel the finish. You know some of our newer products with the leather portfolios is not something you can truly appreciate without touching it. So I think we have to enable again those customers who do want to experience, feel the weight, you know feel the finish, see the color scheme 'cause its usually important, again not for all customers. Some customers are quite happy to spend thousands of dollars on an online purchase without seeing it and then making sure they have a good facility to be able to, well if they wanted to, to return if they got the normal the product. >> As we look though at like we talked about, this consumerization of everything where we have this expectation and the numbers, I think you even mentioned it maybe in your keynote, Gillian, the numbers of, or somebody did this morning, like upwards of half of all transactions are starting on mobile so we got to start there. What are some of the things that you guys have seen in region in terms of mobile conversions? >> So there's still a massive gap between desktop and mobile conversions, first of all. I mean we're not anywhere near parity between the two. But obviously we're seeing a huge volume of traffic coming in as well and it's shifting that way, so you would expect it to drop as result. I think with Magento what we've seen over the, you know, past few deployments that we've been running and that were over 8% improven. But the desktop conversions are far higher. I mean in terms of improvement and actual conversion so we've still got a long way to go. There and that's a naturative process, that's a journey that probably never ends in terms of ongoing optimization and experimentation. So yeah a lot happening there. I think just on the click and collect topic as well that you were asking about people wanting to start their journey online and then come into bricks and mortar. We're seeing a huge uptake on it just by experimenting, by piloting. Over 26% of our consumer notebooks in India that we've put onto this program were being collected in store and this is in environments which are inherently chaotic on the streets. You don't want to go out there but actually I'm passing that way anyway so it's just easier for me to pick it up on the way home and probably quicker 'cause I can collect in two hours. So it's just giving people customer choice, no additional incentive and it seems to take. So now we're expanding out regionally. >> So you said there's, this morning, Gillian, in your keynote eight markets covered, mostly Apache, but also in Latin America. >> We just started in Latin America, again, the development process is not just as simple as we're switching on. So we've been doing a lot of work for this past six months with Latin America. The team there, they're super excited to get launched. There's some differences there, we've talked about the regional variation around fulfillment models that we have to adapt towards but the intent is to get Latin America deployed, leveraging some of the layer lengths from what we've done in Asia specific and then starting to move around into more the near region and then ultimately back into the US and Canada. >> So as you look forward and of course you've mentioned we're on this journey right, what are some of the key learnings that you're going to apply? You mentioned this morning, something that was very intriguing and that was, respect the integrity of the Magento platform. Talk about that in context of some of the other learnings that you'd recommend for colleagues and similar or other industries to be able to achieve what you have on a global scale. >> I think from the outset, there was this kind of like baggage of deployments of capabilities not just in commerce but deployment of capabilities across HP that we had not respected the integrity of the platform. We had adjusted the code and developed on the code to make it HP specific and with the new HP Inc. company one of the guided principles was no, when we buy the leverage software applications respect it for what it is and adjust business processes and adjust integration rather than adjust the core so that we can get the advantage of the longer term opportunity without creating such like. So it was really just a foundational, you know, let's not go in here with a mindset that we know better than the core. The core is there for a reason and then build around that and ensure the integration and I think you know with Herriot's leadership, we've been able to you know, just keep that firm is why we can be successful and be successful longer term as well. So that all the, and one of the things we talked about yesterday also is the excellent capabilities that are coming with Adobe and the integration that we talked about the recommendation of Adobe Sensei and integrate that with Magento Core. If you don't keep to the respect the integrity, those upgrades and capabilities become really hard to take benefit of so we're really excited about, you know, again, sticking with the core and enabling and growing with the core with Magento and Adobe. >> I would just build on it, I mean I think its never gonna be easy running a global commerce platform. Single instance, multiple countries, you know, 27 markets to get started with. Who knows where we're gonna end. Its always gonna be a challenge so we have to keep it as simple as possible. These upgrades are fast and furious and that's great and we all gets lots of benefit but if we start going down our own path, we've lost it. We've lost the benefit. >> And that's one of the things too that Jason Wolfsteen said this morning was that the word Magento was gonna be enabling businesses to achieve without getting in their way and it kind of sounds Herriot, like you're saying the same thing. That we've gotta be able to respect the technologies that we're building so we don't get in our own way and we keep it simple as we wanna expand globally. Ultimately at the end of the day, you're creating these personalized experiences with consumers and that personalization is so important because it's more and more not only are we transacting or wanting to on mobile but we want our brands like HP to know us. We want you to know our brand value, you know our average order value so that we can become part of the experience but also ideally get rewarded for being loyal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, I mean just coming to mobile again but you know, 2.3 delivers the native PWA capabilities which we're super excited to get started with. You know we've got so many used cases for this straight away, right out the box but you know we've got to do it gradually, do it the right way. I think we're also aware that we're not gonna be able to run with PWA in all markets straight away 'cause not all markets are ready for it quite frankly. User behavior- >> Is that a cultural thing? >> It's purely cultural. Maybe technical and just technical ecosystems as well. Places like China in particular, where, you know, customers use app stores but they use app stores from every single phone manufacturer right there. That's where the customer is. We can't just move away from that so we need to keep some of those legacy approaches for a little while and then yeah test in other regions and then take the learnings when we're ready to adopt it. >> Exciting so here we are at, this is the first Magento Imagine since the Adobe acquisition. Gillian, let's wrap things up with you. What are your, you mentioned you were part of the Customer Advisory Board yesterday, just some of your perspectives on this years' event now that Magento is powering the Adobe commerce cloud. >> I actually attended the Adobe Summit a few weeks ago here also in Vegas and started to see the thread of commerce coming into that conference and then seeing the Adobe, the experience, coming into Magento and I just think it's a perfect combination of opportunities especially for a company like HP where we were linked in to connect, you know, marketing and sales and support across the customer journey and the capabilities with Adobe and some of the marketing stack, and then the commerce stack, and there was support bringing that together is a super exciting opportunity for us. You know the partnership that we have with both Adobe and Magento again as one as I really, they were just starting what the next journey was gonna look like. >> We feel that about so many things, we're just starting, but Gillian, Herriot, it's been a pleasure to have you on theCUBE for Magento Imagine 2019. Thank you both for your time. >> Thank you, thank you. >> Our pleasure. I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE live from The Wynn Las Vegas at Magento Imagine 2019. Thanks for watching. (light music)

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Accenture Interactive. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Vegas at the Adobe Summit 2019. I think there's about 17,000 people. The first time we've been here but we've been excited to be here. There's a crazy good buzz and energy and actually a ton of CUBE alumni here at Adobe. We're greeting old friends but it's always great to meet new friends. And coming off of great mention in the keynote this morning we're excited to have Santiago Aldana. He is the CDO and CTO of Avianca. Welcome. >> Thank you, John. >> So I was surprised this morning, we were watching the keynote and there's Satya Nadella and he has a shout-out for you guys. >> It was quite a surprise. It was very engaging and I'm happy to hear that. >> Yeah, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> And a little fact, you guys are the second oldest commercial airline, he said. I had no idea. >> That's right, we've been flying for almost 100 years. It's our 100th anniversary this year. >> Awesome. >> So great, great. >> Well, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So air travel's a really interesting industry because it's growing like crazy in terms of the total number of passenger miles, right? More people are flying all the time. But it's got to be super competitive. You got to worry about fuel costs. A seat mile is a seat mile. So there's all kinds of interesting ways to compete. You guys are really into it, you've been successful for 100 years, so how do you differentiate what you guys are doing and continue to evolve and be successful? >> So there's several things. If you look 10 years back we used to be a domestic airline. We used to have around 30 planes, now we're around 170 planes. We're the second largest airline in Latin America. That has been a huge growth. >> Wait, how long did you do that? >> That's for the last 10 years. >> 10 years you went from 30 planes to 170. >> To 170, 180. >> And domestic to international. >> To a Latin American airline. >> That's a big move. >> That's a big move but we're shifting our emphasis, going more, rather than growth, going to profitability. And to make that profitability we have to make the strong transformation to make that happen. >> So for profitability there's all kinds of things that go in there, there's higher utilization, there's hopefully everybody buys Teslas so the gas doesn't cost as much for the airplanes. How are you focusing on profitability? 'Cause here we're at Adobe, all the talk's about experience, experience, experience. If I'm flying on your plane, I want to get a good deal and keep everything good but I'm not necessarily that worried about your profitability. >> So let me tell you a little bit about that. If you think about an airline we're just the distance between our customers and their dreams. We're just the distance. So the customer doesn't want to go to security. The customer doesn't want to go to the whole hassle of planning the trip. Our purpose is reducing that distance, reducing that effort, and when we reduce that effort we're going to self-service, we're going to personalize, to make life easier for our customers. That's the basic challenge. And that has to do with three main areas. One, knowing our customer. The other one is, making sure that the value proposal for that customer journey is proper. So that's operational work. And the other one is providing our employees with enough information to make that happen. All of those are working along data, and data to be able to provide a real value proposal to making that happen. The customer has to be in the center of our strategy and that's where we have to be working all the time. And when you do this, it's not about technology, it's about the customer. And being that, about the customer, the strongest challenge is not technology but people, making people change so we that can provide the value proposals to our customers. >> So what are some of the things that you did to enable the experience of my engagement, whether it's electronic or whether it's when I'm talking to that person at the counter, checking in or getting on my flight, how have you helped them provide me a better experience? >> You talk as if it was part of the past. To be honest, it's a journey, we're still working on that. There are several things that we did last year, a whole bunch of things. We changed our app, we changed our website, we changed our interaction with our customers with data. And regarding Adobe, we're here at Adobe, we implemented a whole set of tools. So AEM, the website is a new thing. Regarding Microsoft we implemented a CRM to know about our customers. We changed our app, and the app is like a platform with which we're transforming the customer journey. What we have to do at the end of the game is changing those touch points so that those require less effort from our customer, they're more seamless and we are able to personalize and know in advance what the customer is looking for to provide alternatives. And that makes it more seamless. So we're in that process of doing data-centered decision making to reduce that effort from our customers and make things happen. >> So as you've gone through this journey to date what are some of the surprising things that came up that you just didn't expect at all, on a positive side? And then what were some of the negative things that you didn't know, that were so negative that now you've kind of removed? >> Okay, so I've been here in this business and Avianca just for the last two years, so if you talk about surprises this is my first time in airlines. I wasn't expecting this to be so challenging. >> Well, it's good to come at it from a fresh point of view, absolutely. >> I've been in banking, I've been in telcos. Believe me, there's a huge technical depth, there's a lot of complexity, and bringing this customer information up to the table, it's been challenging. Lots of things going together. Surprises, yeah, we have to work with our employees. We have to transform that culture. We have to move towards a more testing ... Having experiments iterating and learning from that process. And that takes time and that requires a lot change of culture. The other one is being more agile and that's more easily said than done. So making the teams be more collaborative. And working with partners. We decided to choose a handful of partners to make this transformation work. And those partners, that's not one thing that you just plug and play, you have to make it work and that requires a lot of effort. Even if it's big, strong, world-wide, world-level sponsors and partners, it requires engaging and making them work together. At the end it's about people in every part. And making people work together, that's a challenge. That's a challenge. >> You've got the whole gamut too, 'cause you've got the front line people that are directly engaged with the client, whether again it be at the gate agent or on the telephone or processing those things all the way back to the senior management and the operations which I'm sure are not only regulated and very very finely detailed for safety and everything else. So that's got to be hard to try to drive transformation in what was probably a pretty rigid situation. >> It is, that's why you have to choose what to do. And probably you don't know how to do it at the beginning but you know what you want to achieve. And that requires a more iteration way of learning, experimenting and finding a way. That's regarding agility. And that's where you work with partners to also leapfrog and move faster forward unto this. That's where we choose partners as Accenture, Adobe, Microsoft, SAP, and Amadeus. And they're moving us forward unto that. >> So what are some of the ways that you're trying to measure success? What are some of the things you're tracking as you go through this transformation? >> Well, several of them. Let me talk just about a couple of them. One of the things that we have to do is make the buying process easier. We're starting way behind, strong technical depth, and we have to decouple our systems to make those steps that our customer has to do, make them fewer, easier, and changing the whole booking flow. But to do that, we don't have the answer. First we have to decouple the system, the legacy systems, and then we have to learn from our customers. We have to do a lot of A/B testing to see what works better. Test and see if the process is better accepted by our customers, learn from that, probably fail, do it again, iterate it and do it again. And that process we have to engage unto that. The other one is ... So that's one of the areas. But the other one is, how can we make sure that the operational value proposal takes place? Since we have been growing for the last 10 years so much, we started from a local airline to the second biggest airline in Latin America, but that growth is a little bit disorganized and we have to set things up to make it happen. We have to provide a lot more data and connectivity to all our employees at the airports, at the counters, at the call center, and providing them with more customer information to make it happen. >> Right, so you're on that process, so you're starting to deliver new data to the gate agents and the people on the front line? >> Sure. >> So how are they reacting to that? Do they like to be empowered, are they afraid of being empowered, are they saying, "Ah, finally I have the information "in front of me that I can take care of this traveler?" >> So there's not one answer for that. In some cases we empower them and they enjoy a lot and they say, "Hey, finally we got this." For example, we are giving our ... This is a recent project that we launched at the airport. We're providing them data through mobility, making the turnaround of our planes faster, and we're giving them much more data. Before then, they had to call everywhere to find what was happening. Now they have it at their hands, and that's different. So that changes the whole thing and they look forward to that. At other times, we sometimes do mistakes also. We provided more information through the apps to our pilots. They were finding that awesome. But then some of the information that they used to have, we didn't get it. So we have to iterate it and give it and then they start loving it. Regarding our customers, which is the other side, it's not internal employees, we do some things in which we test and sometimes they say, "Oh, that was not what we were expecting." So we have to learn from that. I mean, it's not about making a huge waterfall project. It's about learning in the process, failing, and iterating and making it happen again and again. It's a whole journey. >> We just had our last guest, he talked about trying to move this stuff to the cloud. It's like, first time didn't work, second time didn't work, third time, hey, now it's working. So you don't know until you know, right? And what we hear over and over is as you start this top-level transformation project you uncover a bunch of stuff under the covers that has to be reworked to support what you're trying to do on the front end. >> That's right. >> I assume it's a lot of the same thing that you found? >> You're exactly right, there's a lot of things in that way. On all three areas. Customer, on customer we didn't have customer information, we didn't even have a CRM. So we implemented our CRM at a huge fast pace that we did it, in a year we already had it. The app and the website, we have to totally remake it, and getting more information from that and getting personalized information regarding that. That's technical depth, I was not expecting that to be there. >> So I'm just curious, what was the catalyst of this transformation and this growth? Were you trying to put in systems to support the growth that you did from going from a relatively small domestic airline to an international, or are you trying to set the table for continued growth, to continue on that growth path? That's a pretty aggressive growth path. >> It's a little bit more simple than that and I'm going to be blunt here. Three years ago the board at Avianca was doing a search for a new CEO. That's my boss right now. He came over three years ago. He used to be the president for Microsoft in Latin America. In the interviews they told him a lot of things. And after he was questioned and doing the interview, he said, "Okay, let me say this now. "Are you asking me to make Avianca "a digital company flying airplanes?" And they said, "Yeah, that's exactly right. "That's what we want." So that was the initial pace. That was three years ago. I joined the team two years ago. There was already a vision, and that vision is making things easier and effortless for the customer. That's part of what we're trying to build. And that is before, during, and after the trip. If we are able to do that we're reducing costs, we're making it simpler. The whole process is about being simpler, taking away complexity, making sure that our operations are better, and that's taking away complexity. You can do that through technology also. But again, the biggest challenge is probably not technology. It's a cultural change and it's the leadership required to move on and make our employees, our customers, take advantage of it. >> Bold move by the board and a bold move by the CEO but we hear it all the time. Everybody's a digital company now, it's just what product or service do you happen to wrap it around? So what a great story. >> Thank you. And yeah, again, we got to go more data-centered, we have to know our customer better. If we want to do something personalized the only way is through the data. We have to know in advance what our customers are requesting and trying to make it easier for all of them, and that's the data. >> Well Santiago, thanks for sharing your story. And again congratulations on the keynote shout-out. >> Thank you, thanks a lot. >> All right. He's Santiago, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at Adobe Summit 2019 in Las Vegas. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (lively electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Extension Interactive. >> Welcome back, everyone. Live cube coverage here in Las Vegas for adobe summat. Twenty nineteen. I'm John for With my Coast. Jeffrey for Yu here for two days. The wall, the wall coverage We're on day to our next guest. Marc Andre Sinclair, director of digital marketing Platform Content Strategy Export Development Canada E D. C. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you. So love your channel. Digital marketing platform content strategy. That's kind of in the center of all the action. So, you know, you've been doing some transformation. Tell us your story. What do you guys do? What was what was that? What's the story? >> So I joined E. C. Exported moment Cata two years ago, really helping them out on the overall digital transformation. So I've been fortunate, joined the organization as the moment that they're our position. We wanted to change like we weren't a mandate to gain back some relevance in the market. CDC exists how occasion businesses go beyond the borders, go international. So they really wanted to be relevant to the market because we're not competing with the markets were really just like a compliment in a market. So we've been on that journey distrust, transformation For the last two years, we've are now competing the first phase of a transformation and just about two years, which normally takes four years in the industry. And we're now add midway to our overall digital transformation. We want a critical the number of customers that we have in four years, but it's a very aggressive target what we call normal, like a stretch goal that are serious put. So that's what we've been up to in the last two years. >> And what >> was the catalyst? Why the change? Because, well, what was going on kind of behind the scenes t make such an aggressive, so aggressive move. If you look at >> the interest you overall, there's a major shift in what is export. So exporting means merchandising guys ing good for most of the people. When when you look at the shipping industry to software and services, these folks are not perceiving themselves as being on exporter like really, you build a software, you sell it. You don't think about your software getting beyond the borders. So the industry, the overall market size, are the number of companies that we could help in. The country has grown, but our number of customer remained flat. So we wanted to catch back at that market reach. And there was a theater in Perth. Is that forced us to change? But basically it started. What? Our CEO Putting forward a strong paper cultured like really forced people to think differently and change. >> What's the progress Like how you happy with the progress so far? Absolutely. What are what are some of the things you've knocked down already? What was the pick us through the steps? They could screw up the plan. What was the What is the plan? What is completed were how much how much is left. >> OK, so it started for us as a strong investments and over all the marketing tech stocks which started obviously where I will be summit. So we started in the vestments with the Adobe expense manager and it was about us changing the technology that we had in terms of delivering a customer experience. So your approach we took wass people processing technology. But at the middle, we really put the customer experience at the forefront of everything at the art of every decisions. Makings. So for us were Margaret, we're finishing the migration as we speak right now. That's the first phase. And now with the partner that we have X censure. We're looking in terms ofthe archaic. How can we build capabilities back in the business? Because we've outsourced are full function to our partner. And now it's about how do we get the right level of cost tower scalability for the future so we can deliver premium customer experience. So a lot of activities have happened. We went into natural transformation at the same time, the organization has embraced our job overall and now we're really thinking about was the future data customer experience. So these are the biggest shift that their condition is looking at As we stand right now, we've done the migration and we can now start to think about personalization experimentations. These are all the cool things that we have ahead of us. >> What was the heavy lifting hard part of getting this off the ground? What, some learning or any experiences where you, you know, failed miserably and rebooted or reset means you learned through it oration. We see these successful projects. What's the key learnings? Have you had any moments like that? >> Definitely So So, First of all, I would like to talk a bit about the fail approach because this is something that wasn't obviously part of the organization. And that is something fundamental to a change in organizations. So to quote my boss fail stance or first attempt and learning, So you got to get out and you got to try things and we gotta experiment. Otherwise, you're not really pushing the boundaries. Eso I'm proud of her failure and actually won an award about failure last year at our, um, organizations. So they have a corporate awards that recognise people that do fails but move on and fell fast, like that's a spirit. So for us as, say, at the beginning, the biggest part of a project was to get the what I call the M V P. Zero. So we have to change from a nun premise toe called architectures. And when you start to do these things at an organization that has never done cloud, you uncover a lot of stuff a lot of security protocols, firewalls kicking in. So our first BP zero just to set the infrastructure has been quite a challenge. I think we went three times out, and the third time was the right one. But this is the critical one where you start to build credibility. And even though for us we're working and agile every two weeks without ever cradle to grave, everything full blown experience, this one was really a longer one. And we were really made sure that the requisition understood that this is complicated When you do the foundation. This >> is company goes cousins to say its foundational. So I'm going to take your time. You've got to get that right. Can't have any cracks in the foundation because you're building on top of it. Exactly. So that three attempts you. You said you went out for forbid, or how did three attempts of building it was >> so the throughout That's R about us deploying the full Levi's serology in the clouds. So first time we went uncover a few things. Second time, not anything pop up weren't aware. And then the third time we went out. Third time's a charm to say we went >> out. It was good >> way. Nailed it on that >> time. It's the >> price I didn't invite you on stage. I don't know if you caught that in the Kino. Towards the end of his keynote, he said, We need to have an award for people that disproved their own hypothesis. Exactly so. But you said it's interesting. He said. The people part was hard in the process, and yet it was a top down initiative from the CEO. So was it not bought in a kind of the mid tier management level? The senior management? Why, if the COC and we need to do this, was it hard to move those different party organization? Well, >> I'd say the people part was more about having the right talent on the right mind sets. So one to CEO put forward the culture paper, the stretch goals. Really the organization started to organize themselves on. Are we going to make that thing happened now? Like we need to work differently. And this is not about just more cash, more at counts. We need to re engineer a bit the way we were working, so I wouldn't say that there was an issue with with the way or the people of today was just like you start through higher scrums, you start the heart coach to start our appeal. These are skills says that you've never had. Like at the beginning of the project, we had new marketing talent. We had new partner for the ritual that every we have a new partner for agile and we also have new technology. So you start with a lot of new stuff at the same time. So I'd say these are natural things that you have to do. Is it easy? No, not necessarily. But we had a lot of support from the sea level standpoint. >> It sounds like you guys have a very Dev ops oriented culture because talking about failing fast is a cultural cloud concept. I mean agile iterating scrums. This's a dev ops mindset, infrastructure. It's code. Did you guys have that built in Or you said you started three years ago. Was that was that the core cultural mindset? >> So I wouldn't say that we're a dev ups type of culture of mentality, I would say, actually, it's probably the part that we still need to invest hard because now we build a fully whole machine that scaring and pushing the machine you start uncover that once you go that full cycle, few things are popping up, so you know, and and the in the nineties are beginning of this of two thousands. Like when you were thinking about nal ticks, people were always like, Okay, let's let's do this on our techs use case. Our position at the end. Let's do your documentation at the end. It tends to be the same thing with Dev up. Sometimes like we have a strong architectural when in terms of regression, automation and all these things, we truly need to invest a bit more so we can have a because we're playing every single two weeks that we wanted or not. So that's a lot of pressure on all the people that do, que way you waited to make sure everything >> you want to get it right first, then kind of bolted on after as more of an operational models >> way had a very strong foundation, and now we're spinning everything. >> It's all I got to ask you about the export piece of it because, obviously, um, international global competitiveness is a big force. Right now, people have to be global and data privacy. You mentioned. We talk about genie pr before we came on camera you an opinion on this. Do you have anything? You? Could you please share your view on TV? I really Well, I thought it's valuable. >> Yeah, absolutely. So what I didn't mention when we chatted about that before is Wei thought a lot about you. We need to comply to GDP. Are because this is ah, European regulation. And we headed up that Yes, a CZ. Because we have prisons internationally and erupts. Not everyone that has that opinion that they need to comply. But what we've uncovered was one, one or two weeks before the D days on May twenty fits that We needed to be compliant. So what has happened is in two weeks, we stop everything. We worked twenty four hours for two weeks to restructure the platform to make sure that we were, like, compliant to do CPR. And then after that, we fought a lot. Next few months, we'LL look into it. Are we going to make that thing right? Because people are scared of gpr, but that you want it or not? This is just a beginning way. See it with the California Act Canada as a castle. I'm pretty sure they're going to be very aggressive, so you need to make sure that you really invest in. There are privacy management and all these things. At the end of the day, if it's well done, your customers will love it. The issue is people are being a bit sneaky without the use data. But if you're being transparent and you're being honest with the way you use the data and you're being fully disclosing what you're doing, it's not an issue you need to embrace it. Actually, I think that's a commis it embrace it because it's going to be part of our journey that we >> want to do the tough work up front for you. He was forced to because you are building something new. And then, well, the deadlines here, so is the struggles. Hard works. He had to grind it out. So you and then once you get over that, prepare for it, invested it, nurture the strategy for that. What's the advice to give someone sets there has to do the GPR and might not be into the time pressure, but it's starting out and saying Okay, I got to get my arms around this. What's the core issues well, getting started, not colour, but like what's playbook? >> So the playbook and say like if you think about G p r. This is basically for the European. You If they're not giving you the right tio leverage cookies and tracking and all these things, you should not be doing it. So it's simply thinking in your implementation of a piece of software that goes at the beginning that says, Do you want to have full functional thief, full personalization or not? And don't look at GDP R. But look at the customer experience. If you put the customer once again at the forefront and you really think about what does it make sense? You know if if you and I get on the Web sites and we see that thing that is fronting A, I know what you've done last summer like it's kind of creepy. You don't want to have these things. And so you just build that customer experience around their privacy management, and then everything will fall together. >> So build it into the product. >> Yeah, platform, yeah, and do it the right way and compliance will follow. Don't do it to be compliant. Don't >> exactly do it through a customer experience, >> right? Right. So how's this success band in terms of getting into some of these new markets for you in terms of software and services and some of the other export markets? So, so >> interesting question, because two years ago a DC was focused on to court things, financial products and insurance products. So right now we've expended our product line, and we're now having this what we call knowledge business. So if you think about occasion, business or any business that wants to go beyond the borders, this's quite scary to go in the international game. So now we're capable of offering them a lot of insights on international market out the exports virus key questions that haven't her journey. So we're not helping them to our journey and also as were wet and better than the international supply chains. We're helping them with connecting with big, big companies that are leveraging or looking for some capabilities that we have in the country. So we've really skilled up the product line that we have. We're really shifting the model. We're working a lot with the banks and the way we're supporting the Cajun businesses so like it's days and nights, the type of products that have a solution, the experience that were providing, uh, from two years ago. Do we still have work? Absolutely. Like digital transformation is never such a thing that is completed. The key essence here. The key message is, it's never done, and the customer experience has to be at the forefront if you think about the customer experience. It just happened that most of the experiences digital these days so test our mission is never handing. >> I think I think it's a great mind set. I think that's so smart. It's not just about mobile first or cloud for just customer center. From the beginning, I'm gonna ask you the question. What's it like working with a century Iraq? That what role that they play with a easy to work with the good? What's the story? >> Absolutely. I'm very pleased with the team that we had. We have strong people from Accenture were fully leveraging the network that they have because they're distributed in the global business. Axe Central, for us, is doing all the delivery stuff, the the very difficult stuff behind the scene that is normally like your function that you haven't an organization. So we've been extremely pleased on DH. Actually, I think that the fighter fact that were capable of delivering every single two weeks and agile were pure, agile. You will hear in the industry that some people think they're our job, but they're actually hybrid Elijah. So we're full blown, agile the organization. And they've been strong partner with us on that journey. >> That's awesome. Well, I love the story looking for to keep it in touch. Keep us posted on When you get this transformation. I look forward to chatting. And thanks for sharing your story. And inside here in the Cube, my pleasure. Mark Andreessen, Claire customer here inside the cute telling about the journey and the struggles and GDP are get on it and make it an advantage. Great. Great line there. And digital is the future. I'm Jeffery Jeffery. More day to coverage with the Cube after the short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by extension for interactive. >> Hey, welcome back it when Cube live coverage here in Las Vegas are doubly. Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Murray with Jeffrey, my coz this week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Glenn Hartman. North America lied for a censure Interactive. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. Great beer. So you guys are doing some great stuff around the creativity, peace, doing great customer experience. Implement taste. We have a great walk through from a lot of the folks from your organization. You're designing up ideas and products, delivering them and then operating them. Nice model. Yeah, thanks. Is that your business model that has network, What century? Interactives business model. I mean center and >> really about one thing. It's about creating, delivering and running the best experiences on the planet. We help our clients do that for their own customers. And when >> we talk about experience, a lot of people have different definitions for that, especially at the conference here. It's not necessarily an experience of a website or a mobile app or u X is people use it. It's really anyway, a brand engages with a customer. It's not just marketing. Either it could be sales or customer service loyalty. Anything anyway. A brand promise can be delivered. Teo to customers. One of things that I've noticed with you guys is that it's a talk track and thought leaders around a new creative and new creativity. And Toby honestly with software that they haven't now the cloud you're seeing in the marketplace. We saw this at Sundance two years ago. A new kind of creative is, um, organically coming into the marketplace with more channels to direct to consumer, whether it be to be or be to see you and now have new kinds of mechanisms to take product, whether it's APS or content or movies, You start to see this democratization really starting to happen. How is that changing? How you guys helped us is because now they now have new capability. They can tell their story in a different way. They have access to new kinds of channels that weren't there before. How is that changing the business, in your opinion, die in a profound way? So I mean, everybody knows that marking is inextricably linked >> to technology and data. Everybody knows that. But when >> we are thinking about the new, creative and own ways that you can tell stories and create experiences. We look at experience very differently. I mentioned before that it was all about all the different touch points in the ways people interact with the brand. But when we look at experience, we call it the Big E. And the biggie actually stands for empathy. And it's understanding how to define what a brand experience means to that customer and defining success in terms of that customer. And you know, Jeff and John, you guys air not to find by your data set or what you bought last week. You could be very different types of people in different situations and understanding ways to empathize with you in the moment and having experiences change in the moment and having creative play, a part of that and data play. A part of that is the big hot. It's a new way of looking at things, and the last part of that, too. And the big is about emotion. So when you have a big brand that has some emotional connection, you know you love this brand for an automotive or you love this hotel chain or there's some brand a connection you have. How do you have that connection flow through every touch? Point and data and technology can enable that. But it's really empathy and emotion. That's the driver. How do you get empathy and creativity to work together? Because you now have an accelerant with data you mentioned getting to know people's empathizing with them in the moment it's contextual. I could be having a great day or a bad day or driving my kids to school of whatever's going on with me. It certainly there might be some data out. How do you get the creativity and the empathy to work together in your mind? You see that appointment? That's the nice parties. More than ever, we have different data sets that can help us do that. Just give you a couple of examples. Um, instead of understanding how to market >> to someone so they'LL buy the next product on basing. That may be on their demographic, maybe basing it on their preferences. You've hear all these terms and marketing for years, and you can understand what they bought. >> Instead of understanding that, why don't we try and look and use data which you could easily do today to understand why they bought something so it could be something as simple as like a I don't know, Cpg example. Maybe have shampoo and you could say, Well, they bought these kinds of things before, So maybe they'LL buy that champion. But if they know that, you know, maybe Jeff is equal friendly are John. Maybe you're more into things that maybe you buy that shampoo because you care about animals and they know they don't test them on animals. Or maybe it's something more about experience that that particular shampoo won't make your daughter cry when you ship your her hair. And it helps that experience that that's the reason why it actually helps me. You're empathizing in the moment with something that is meaningful that you care >> about. It's not about a better deal or >> better price or some kind of feature. It's something actually about you more meaningful, much very meaningful interaction. Data set is that because there's no data before, is it more? There's more signals, potentially to get exposed to that, because that's a hard data points to get. I mean, to find the why is a holistic kind of perspective. It's true, but I mean, I think it's more of a mind set. The date is there, but the mind set has been different. Over time, people were looking to technology every buzz word in the world use big data and personalization. Aye, aye. And then now it's a I and machine learning and like, Well, that's great. And they're all wonderful enablers, as I said, but it has to be driven by empathy first. So it all starts. >> I mean, we've been saying this forever customer, centrist city and a customer >> concerts. But really, I mean, for real. If you start to use those data sets, aunt have the mindset has to be a c M. O. R. A brand manager is someone who actually it's advocating for the customer, and they're willing to say, No, I don't need big data. I don't need all the data. I need this gold nugget part so I can speak to John. >> It's interesting plate, as you say, the emotional part of the biggie. Also, I think it is the old Coke commercial, right raw one world together, and we all cry and there's some great McDonald's commercials, right when you talk about you think beyond that to the to the empathy. I can't help but think of kind of the whole purpose. Purpose driven, mission driven companies. You know, kids coming out of college want to work for mission driven, cos we heard it over and over. And the key notes, you know, we're not a product company, not even really a service company. But we're committed to two, an ideal to the mission. Beep. Be partners with us, be our customer. Let's have a relationship that goes so much deeper and longer than any particular transaction is that kind of that tied it, that that is a part of it? >> Absolutely. Now, the interesting thing of what you said is that people are >> tied to a purpose and maybe something that's meaningful in a broad sense, absolutely. And that's a wonderful place to start. And you can start to align products and services in that way, >> the way he talked about, like, shampoo and, you know, animal testing, right? Well, >> it's a good one, but the next one is really getting a little bit Mohr down to you. So I think all that is great, but really understand what you need in the moment, because what happens is it. Some of those things may change if you are shopping at a grocery store every >> Saturday for your family and you're used to doing down your attitude. There might be different then when >> you're shopping, when your kid is sick and you got pulled out of work and you got to get there to get the prescription, you're into speed and your stress in the moment they're versus. Maybe >> on Saturday you're like all try some new coupons and try some new things and go by. The little tasting >> station is actually behaviors that you want to understand in the moment. That is a big part of that as well. But the key thing to hear is, let's think of this when you deal with empathy. It's not just getting to know all those things. Even if it gets to that level, it's actually changing the way marketers think about talking to communicating and relating to customers even the language that they use. I mean, think of it >> today. I mean, >> still, people use marketers are their marketing to people. It's, uh, that's acquire customers. Let's convert wind developers over good. We don't win their helpers over. And what was the last time you guys were real excited about getting converted? Okay, it's not a fun experience, right? So if you even changed, I might send you say, Let's market with someone or let's let's help them. You actually create experiences that are useful and helpful not about conversion and not a business metric. But success is defined by the customer. How are you guys playing this? Because this is really kind of ties on multiple threads. I mean, the whole nother community angle to people belong to communities in context to their life. And they engage. And when they engage his emotional connection to a group of this and some cohorts is the worker. Thank you. Okay, groups. But they're friends and colleagues, or whatever could be you guys were. The point is, with customers, take us through a use case day in the life of empathy, deployed into how you guys do business with the big Branson and one of the success. How do you make it happen? What's the engagement look like? How does someone do this? So they just wake up one morning, say Okay, I'm gonna have more empathy. They also call you guys up. What happens? Like what? Take us through What? Certain evidence was made in the slide. I could give you >> a little bit of it. An example of how stars we've been talking a little bit more dramatically about sick kids and testing on pets and animals and things like that. Not testing the pets. Can you imagine? I'd really be >> horrible. But single graphic of the users individual personal things is hard, right? So? Well, I mean, the whole point of this is that when you really get into the mechanics of how this works, I'll give you an >> example. It's a little bit less dramatic. OK, so it's a telecommunications company. Telco company. That's selling. You guys know what? Triple play? Yeah. Okay, So you have It's >> a cable and a phone, right? All it's it's like a commodity product writers. There's no emotional thing necessarily. But in that game, if you can just optimize certain parts of the journey, you can make a big difference, right so way got a benign request from a marketer. Teo say, Listen, we do a lot of paid search. Can you help us with this one product? Just if you move it even like one percent, it would be significant to the company. But when? So okay, we'LL do that, >> and it worked out. We go in and help them do their >> search. But because we're thinking about experience in a broader sense for so well, let's let's do it more. Let's make them be able to transact or engage in multiple ways. Well, you could. You could sign up for the service to email. Or maybe there's click to call or click to chat. Or you could even walk into a branch and do it there. Maybe through the call centre, right? It's what's all that's working together on the channel, though fun words you want easy. You're leveraging >> different technologies to do it and people, >> so the way this worked was you were coming in through search and then eventually a lot of them were converting in the call center. So it was all working. And you think that's great? Well, it wasn't great to the company at all. They were very upset. The people that we're buying the media, we're really bummed because they couldn't get the attribution of the credit for the thing was in the call center. So they came over the great idea. They said, OK, take the phone number off and take the the click to call off and will force the >> customer to convert in. Our channel, of >> course, is a brilliant company with great people and rational thinking prevailed and they didn't do that. But they said, Well, what do we do? I said, Well, you're going to eat and multi attribution model to be able to help you do that, Okay, but that's not enough because you also need a new sales incentive and commission structure inside the call center because those people are getting pit on that. But since it's such a low commodity product, that's not gonna work to change. That's that's a new sales kind of thing, then you wait. They can't talk for another three seconds to that person because you'LL bring the margins on. You got to get him back. All the turtleneck just screwed up. That's right. So there's a new business process is now a new operating model whose skills to get him back into the general. So all of a sudden it's benign. Request from a marketing team taken, you optimize my paint search becomes new business transformation. Okay, now, because that brand manager had the guts to say I'm going to advocate for this customer. This customer wants to come in through this channel. They want to convert over here, and we're gonna actually change the operating model, the sales structure to call the sales lead. I had to call the CFO on the CEO, and we're gonna make this happen, Gonna change the way we do business on behalf of that customer. That is weight world, I could tell you we see this all the time and marketers all the time that there's so married to their website analytics funnel that that's all about who gets credit coded earls and the customer experience is a brutal. It's like I'm not here on other sites are all over the place. I don't really need to go the site every day, right? Somebody only go there when Otto and the thing we were talking about before. If you're grocery shopping >> and Europe's have set on Tuesday and you want to get off >> for your kid at versus the nice leisurely thing we talked about on the weekend, there's a whole nother set of outcomes in Cape Yas you have to deal with. If you went into that supermarket on Tuesday and they figured out a way to get you in and out fast and just get those two or three autumns, you need it for your kid. That's a failed trip. According to the grocery industry. You need to be in there longer they want, so you stay in the back. That's right. Totally. That breaks the whole model, but it's wonderful for you. You'LL shop there forever because of that experience, what you're getting at the Morrises air, changing the business models of cos that's the bottom line. You're at the center. That could be a driver for the transformation. That's it. Empathy. Is the driver Absolutely no. You need to have the emotional connection to all that stuff to help also internally see emos. I don't need to just be relevant and customers that need to be relevant to the enterprise. They need to be relevant to the CEO, Doc in seconds and hear the screaming and kicking and screaming right now. Glenn, that's great. But man, that's a heavy lift way could do it. How do you How do you get it? Because now I can see a cultural reaction. The antibodies will come out and attack that notion because it's scary because now, like, whoa, yeah, well, I mean, it is hard, but the good news is, is that we see, even at this conference, and a lot of our clients are coming over to do that this incremental ways to get there. But I'll make it simple. So the advantages are we said this new technology, new data that allow you to do some of this stuff right? That's great. And you can see a lot of them consolidating, right? A lot of the stacks all now have content and analytics and commerce and all that, and in this nice ways that they come together and that consolidation can help, and there's other ones that can handle different data sets, and that helps to his automation. And but the thing is that what people miss is one of the ways to accelerate this is add a human centered approach to how you actually create the experience internally. And what I mean is, it's not enough to consolidate the data and figure out that Gold nugget and not enough to do with technology have to do with humans. It's a human centered approach, so we're bringing in integrated teams of humans that are pulling all the stuff together. It's someone who understands strategy. Maybe someone understands creative when it hit me in the club, basically their prime in the pump getting it. But they will sit together. They sent to get the analytics. People sit next to the creative people. It's in next you people. They work on it as they designed the experience. You don't do a strategy project and then do a A road map and then do an R P for technology enabled Waterfall does not work, but it's beyond even waterfall versus algebra. This is actually taking humans and consolidate that thinking New skill sets at the center in like an incubator way to do pilots to do prototyping to do things. If you want to create that new experience that we're talking about in any of these cases, you gotta hand CMO some kind of thing that can bring to the team and say, Look, here's an app that would enable this or he has a pilot We could try without boiling the ocean toe, actually create an experience that would move the needle or whatever. Lame corporate analogy. Just make more money and get some decent results in Get a beachhead, just small eatery through it. Glenn. Great Insights. This is a great time. We'd love to get you back on the Cuban girl down, and it's kind of design thinking, combined with execution on the front lines with customers. Center the value proposition. Great conversation before we and just give a quick plug for the business. What's going on with a sensor Interactive? How's the business going? What are your goals? How many people are working there? What's the geography is looked like? Give us enough. Thanks for asking So essential Interactive is enjoying its third year as being listed by at H magazine, is the largest digital agency in the world on the fastest growing Wei have coverage and a truly integrated global delivery model that hits every part of the of every market. And we're so excited. Tio have this growth because it's a way to show that the market is truly interested and being experienced lead and the way we're defining experience. We're seeing more and more clients moving from some of these incremental changes to really >> try to put the customer at the center of what they're doing. And, you know, X Ensure Interactive believes in this model it is. It's very much in some ways way. Call it a new kind of provider, like an experience agency for lack of a better term. TTO help companies drive that transformation, and it's >> done with people and technology, and we're been on a tear recently. Most are growth is organic, but we also do lots and lots of acquisitions to make these capabilities come together. All the creativity and the design and the strategy and the techniques and the run of it is all in one integrated team, and that is very, very helpful when you're trying to do some of the things we've been talking about and you're you guys. I think I'm the right way. This customer wave is really, really because with digital customers air in charge, they control their data. They're now going to shift is happening. We're starting to see some visibility into it. It was going to impact the economics process and business models, so I think it's just beginning. Congratulations really is thanks. And we're so excited because some of the >> client successes it's truly transformational somethings. You got it. Carnival or Marriott or or Subway. I >> mean, it's a whole different >> kind of way of looking at experience, and it's >> really helping people. It's not just for its good for the business, but we're really changing people's lives and helping have experiences be meaningful. It's been wonderful and fun for us. Glenn, Thanks so much for sharing this insights here in the Cube. Hey, thanks for going the data Here live adobe summat. Twenty nineteen, Jumper, jefe Rick, Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. Brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Welcome back, everyone. Cube Live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John. For whichever Frick. My Coast. This week. Two days of wall to wall coverage. Our next guest is Janine Falcone. Is the marketing agency lead in North America for a center in Iraq? Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having >> me love having the conversation just talking on before we came on camera around the role of the agencies. You guys are doing a lot of big work for big brands. B to C B to B. There's a big shift going on with Cloud computing. We've seen that movie is happening right now. Amazon, as you are all going on, but that what? The marketing world. It's not just about marketing. Cloud is a lot more going on there. The impact to the marketing world and the agency relationships are impacted. That's what's going on. Give us >> the state of >> the market, >> happy to sew an extension. Interactive. You know, a lot of clients come to us and they're living in this world. I talk with my hands. Sorry, living in this world of, like chaos, as I like to call it, because there's so many things going on the technology landscape that you described. It's crazy out there. Remember, the landscape used to be this big announces big. So there's all that sort of market buzz and chaos around. I should buy this technology in that technology, and marketers and CEOs they've all been out there doing, that's that's one piece. The second piece is the customer affectation, right? All that is evolving and changes a customer's always expect. I don't really carry our retailer bank whatever. They kind of have that uber experience that they all expect regardless of product or service or anything like that. So marketers have always tried to deal with that in the way they knew how. But then the third component is business climate and what's happening in their worlds with either shrinking budgets or aging workforce. I don't even mean age necessarily as much a skill set. Aging skill sets things that used to matter. Don't they've got that they've got organizational silos, they've got all these things. So those three things, plus I'm a marketer. I still have to deliver that old brand promise that they're told to dio, It's a crazy crazy time. >> All theaters air on massive change over chips happening. Marketers and CMOS also relied on agencies for help. Tell them they have domain expertise in certain areas, A and agencies and the other thing. But now that the value equations shifting in the economics underlying economics behind it are getting some visibility around its digital different new ballgame, you got a I and Machine Learning has caused that shift. So the question is, How should your customer how are your customers dealing with agency relation? Because in today's value exchange, >> totally and that's all >> don't often come ask us that so not only they have all those silos and all those things. They could have seventeen different agencies across multiple product lines that may have been doing a great job in their own silo. But who's bringing all that together? And then it's not even and my just not spending my money right with these agencies, like What are they delivering for that? So when they come to us, tow holistically, look across all of that and help them. We start with the customer in the center of all those siloed crazy areas. You've got to start with the customer, and what do they expect and how do you deliver to them? So, yes, we're seeing this crazy world in the agency space two of brandade disease desolate all the different kinds of agency >> toss another piece of fruit in the blender makes it all. So I was talking with the sea so that the chief information security officer at some chief security officer at Microsoft reports to the board in cybersecurity, going through the same transformation that it's happening, marking where now you have technology and AP eyes and and tools technical tools. So he's shrinking his supplier base down because he doesn't want his skills gas to get widened by having to learn new tools. So there's now a new forcing function on the tech side, and now we see that kind of creeping into the adobe conversation where it's like this techno involved. Yes, we now have toes, shrink suppliers even more so how do you get from seventeen to three years at the train? So there seems to be a discussion around the impact attack your thoughts. >> Yeah, well, absolutely. That was one of the areas I talked about. So what happens? There is they'LL need marketers to understand technology which today many do. Let's be honest, right? Like, ten, fifteen years ago. They didn't. Today they do. But it also requires you both internally and externally, tohave multiple skill sets. And sometimes they'LL say, Should I be bringing this in house shivering that in house? What do I do with this technology? And there's never one answer. There's never like you should enforce this or that. And so technology has had that massive impact on Oh, I could do this myself and then they realise that can and then back to the But do I have the right skill sets internally externally to be able to do that. And it's often seventeen different still skill sets to do one thing where it used to be. A lot >> of Jeff and I talked on the cue before about you know, the classic business school conversation around core competency should be in house Horak outsource your non core competencies. How did you see that evolved? Because at some point there has to be a core concert on data and things of that nature. So what's your thoughts? How do you advise clients on Okay, if you're going to go in house and start putting a toe in the water and building it out, it's an investment. And all I think about, what's the core competency? >> I mean core competence to me or anything related specifically to your industry that people have to continue to get skilled in an expert in. And they want to do just that. One thing. Sometimes people that are broader generalists in marketing and data, they might get bored doing that. But if someone is like, I want to be really good at this and I'm going to continue to hone my skills in that one thing Data Analytics, whatever, then that may be. And you live in the right market. You don't live in kind of a part of the country where it be hard to find those skills. Be honest. I mean some parts of the country, it's easier than others, so that is one way to look at it. But anything that requires generalist knowledge across industry knowledge or or things that are constantly evolving and you want someone else to pay for the training. >> What's the CMO conversation like for you in clients these days is actually lets a lot of stuff going on. We just illustrated the game is still the same. They gotta pride that brand promise. Now they got the text taxing always new things. Hopefully, Ball will move down the field faster. But what is the CMO conversation that you have? How they stay ahead of the curve? What's their edge? >> Yeah, >> how they posturing right now? >> I mean, I think it's an amazing time to be in marketing. So CM owes to me that are the pioneering. CMO is the ones that are really focusing back is in on the customer and developed, you know, delivering those relevant experiences. They're the ones that are being ex successful because they try toe, not certainly not. Ignore all of us chaos that's surrounding, but stay focused and then they don't worry about Oh, this isn't in my silo. I have to kind of reach across, and I have to make sure I get this first. They have to be the leaders. They have to lead the industry like knowledge and business would be the leader in the organization, whether or not they are and just be the pioneer to get that done, that makes them successful. The ones that are excited about that they're the future, writes >> funny. We interviewed a guy from Clorox while ago, and you think of CPG has been data driven forever right there coming out of there coming out of Cincinnati. They all got trained Teo G. But this is a whole different level of kind of, of data, of data driven execution's been than what they've been doing for years and years and years. That's >> right, because potentially they were product centric. So they dealt with their product in CPD, and I'm going to sell toilet paper. That's I'm going to be the best market or there is. But the customer expectations surrounding that have changed, and they expect you to know them in a relevant, non creepy way. And product marketing to customer marketing is a big shift, and potentially I know a lot. I know a little about a lot of industries. CPG has been very product focused, which is difficult when you now have to be customer centric, regardless of product right that your company is trying to >> send the >> changing rule of distribution, especially in cpt. Anywhere before they would. They would ship the the toilet paper, whatever they were doing, and it goes out the door and they don't know anything else about it to the next. Word comes in correct. Now they know how the products are being used. They got a direct connection to the to the customer, and they need to establish a relationship beyond just the actual execution of the purchase of a very different >> kind of a chance. Crazy. I love it. I think it's a crazy time >> to be able to do that. And again, the blurring between marketing and commerce and sales and service. There's all sorts of debates on where marketing ends commerce sales service begins because it's all clustered together now. Then there's creativity and technology and data and analytics all converging. So to me, people that understand all of those things at a high enough level and are good collaborators and orchestrators that know how to get things done, they will be successful. >> Do you take a lot of people tried to buy their way out of the problem because you know Martek technology has been around for a long time. Arguably, you know, kind of leading edge in a lot of the the things in terms of a web experience. But this, you know, so many of them. >> You can't buy your way out of the problem. Yeah, Yeah, except that. And >> buy it quickly, right? I'm going to buy it, and I'm gonna plug the sand. I mean, I feel like that might have happened years ago, and now you're right there seeing that. Oh, my God. Now, that, too, is like its own silo. Now they have a technology silo to, in addition to potentially some organizational silos that they have to break down. So But, you know, the good news is that everybody sort of sees this now and kind of gets it. And if people are just sort of focused on to do the right thing for the customer because if you don't, someone else will. And sometimes going back to what used to work works like Now, if I call a company, I have no expectation they're going to answer the phone. And when they do, you're like, Wow, that was a great experience. I scheduled a vacation. It was It ended up being non refundable. And I'm like, I'm just going to try to call. It was one of the online. It wasn't Airbnb was one of those like services I caught. They answer the phone. If seven o'Clock on a Thursday night, >> no problem. You can count. Like this is the greatest experience I've had. I'm going to use them again because I didn't expect >> that. So it's not like what used to work doesn't work anymore, but has to work on the right. >> Pleasant surprises. Exactly. Relevancy. That's healthy. And you got it. Yeah. And then they >> said I said, Okay, well, I mean, they're like, we don't need your information, you know, I have your cell phone, so I don't >> know. And I wasn't creeped out by that. I don't >> thank God. Now I don't have to fill out a form >> I need to do mother's maiden name, like, six different times. >> And then, you know what? I saw how you guys make >> money. Like I was so fascinated by this that I just had to sort of figure out the business model because I'm a marker there. And my point is that was. I don't know how much it costs them to do that, but that was a positive experience, >> President. People call in >> there, Bryan. Nobody call it. And I don't know how they got around the company for all I know. So I gotta ask you, I gotta ask >> you with all these new changes you mentioned in one of the great example of how the world's changing KP eyes also change around what's really what's relevant. Because these new things air going on where may or may not have KP I. So how does the CMO get out in front of that? How did they evolve their skill set to either either grok that understand all this new k p I potential? Yeah, and have that front and center and working through the marketing mix. >> Yeah, you can have KP I overload to write. So remember, old school still works. Brand matters. Brandt. No one worried about measuring that stuff years ago, and part of that is still relevant. I had a session earlier today and people talked about CP eyes like customer related influence and things like that, because that matters and some things you absolutely I know This is a Dobie a mike in trouble. You maybe can't necessarily measure. But, you know, it matters to your brand, and some of that matters to know how much you spend on that, how you sort of track that and maybe track I'm all about, like, mixing gray and mixing, you know, qualitative and quantitative stuff. That's part of the trick >> on these signals. Their market, their data signals totally put on the agency front. Go back to the agency for second because with sass, APS and these new things, people answer the phone, which has blended kind of channels. Is there a new agency model emerging around cloud and sass applications that that this doesn't feel like an agency but acts like an agency? Because if you're an agency you're providing a service, you have software service models out there. Self service is there in the evolution of change over and how ages new agencies looked like. And how does the CMO know if someone's a new agency is going to be relevant or not? >> I mean, it totally depends on the kind of agents, and I would tell C Motor not necessarily worry about that. I wouldn't worry about. Do I need a new kind of agency at all? It's like, What am I getting? What are they delivering for me? I would go back to the first question and what do I need to keep as a core competency? And inside versus outside I wouldn't worry about it. Might be the technology question. Right now, I'm gonna have even the others other crazy agencies in What I would worry about is what do I know? I need toe outsource and have people help me with that are going to come up with the best ideas. And I mean, agencies still do that because to come up with a creative idea, you need that expertise that is outside of your industry. So I don't see that ever changing >> don't ask in terms of because, he said, cause brand matters. And I always like a Harley Davidson is kind of the extreme brand loyalty where people tattoo it on their bodies and there's a whole ecosystem outside of the motorcycle. That's a really, you know, passionate group of people. Should everybody strive for that kid everybody. I mean they can't get quite where every tattoo and brands on their arm. But you know where we're kind of the limits And is it, you know, kind of appropriate based on what the product is, how people think about that. Specter. >> Yeah, I might be a little biased on that. I always think brand matters. I always think that when you think of something, if you don't in your head, know what that stands for, whether or not it's a positive or negative is not really relevant. It's yes, I think it does now. Should they strive to be that? No. But they have to be differentiated, and they have to have people know what they do quickly, because if you have to figure it out like mean, people struggle with that today in terms of knowing where to go for what, So without a clear value proposition, differentiation and a brand that matches that and a brand you can live up to with every experience, it's going to be rough. You might have some early success, but it won't. I don't know that it lasts their time and strong brands kind of carry through some tough times, too, You know, if sales are down on the market changes, >> we'LL keep doing our and our interviews on events and get smart people really smart people. And all the answers come out community. Thanks >> so much for coming on, sharing these awesome insights. Final question. What's going on? The show for you? What? Some of the hallway conversations here. You're speaking. What's the top story line for you here at this show? >> It's two things. It's what's going on. The market with our clients is as we just talked about. It's what's going on in our own industry. I mean, there's craziness in our own industry, which is kind of fun. You know what players do, what and who's going to do what and you know, where's this all going? And it's fun. I mean, it's it's really, really fun and exciting to be part of this industry. >> Well, thanks for coming on, Mr. Q. Where we're extracting the signal from the noise at this event. Adobe Summit twenty nineteen Talking the smartest people bringing it to you. Bring that data to you. We right back with more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit. Twenty nineteen. I'm John Murray with Jeffrey Kerr. Next guest. Touch Wars. Who's a global delivery lead for Adobe with sent a censure interactive. That was a tongue twister. You for you, for the adobe relationship with a censure interactive. That's correct. Thank you. Global delivery lead. Thank you. That's right. Look into the Cube. Thankyou. So global. Big big landscape, cloud computing, Global impact delivery. That's hard corn nuts and bolts on the front lines. Tell us by what you do, what some of the issues around delivery, because that's where the rubber hits the road on all this. >> Well, that's exactly right. You know, when I think of my roll, think of me if someone who's out there working shoulder to shoulder with customers when it, you know from a delivery aspect, you know, providing the capability, providing the skills, providing the talent, making sure that we're getting the results that our clients are looking for and ultimately the quality that that we need to deliver for them. >> You guys do a lot of work. I mean, censure Interactive got a great team that sets up all the upgrade ideas, all the new business models. New tech is here. People process, culture change all going on. The end of the day comes into your I've gotta deliver it. And then the outcome is that the one has to accept that this is a core issue of people, talk about operational izing new things and sometimes has changed. Management involved his new culture shifts. So this is where we hear a lot. It's not. The tech problem is the people and the culture. Can you share your view on this because you're on the front lines on this one issue? >> It's a great point. And I think you know, one thing is standing up technology, and you can sort of get some of the nuts and bolts running. It's another thing to really get our clients and our customers enabled so they can unleash the power of some of these platforms. The technologies you know, there's a entire journey map on what their own people we need to go through from in a moment. There is a change management aspect around how we get those folks sort of feeling comfortable about that, and we often go through a couple different methods to do that. Sometimes we do it too, in the box where we'll sort of act with them and the same role other ways we'll sort of lead by example and do it and then they'll sort of shadow us and then eventually we just sort of make that transition. In some cases, they just frankly, you know, outsource it to us, right? And well take over that sort of feature and functionality a role in position on behalf of our customer. And that's okay. >> kind of horsepower. Do you bring to the table? And we just interviewed Nicky, who handles the essential interactive operations that seem like a great power source standing up fast, some operational capabilities. What else do you guys do bring to the table in terms of the delivery piece? >> Well, >> what Nikki and her team do is vital for us. So when you think about when I'm out there doing, I'm out there standing up these capabilities, empowering our customers, and then Nikki's with her team and everything we're doing an X century active operations is sort of operating that for that client, right? So once we sort of turn on some of those features and functions that Nicki's out there with her team, sort of running with it. And in that multiyear run in, getting those >> custom will hand the keys to her. Do so you, that's the hand off. Is that okay? >> Exactly. Right. So once we once we sort of power everything on with our client's power, all that integration on and then we leverage Nikki and her team in many ways to sort of take over that run. Tom, if you talk about the skills, that kind of the skills gap, if you will on some of the clients that you have and how are the skills and the rules evolving to execute with some of these new tooling in this kind of new process? It wasn't like build a campaign and slow roll it out. Now it's Go, go, go, go, go! Oh, you're absolutely right on that and I think I know that. But it's evolving, right? I mean, we data scientists are more important than they ever were. And so all of our customers and ourselves are investing on how we get data science because at the heart of it and If you think about what he's talking about in some of the new products that are coming out, it's about building that data layer right. And it's about taking that data later to the next level, too, around security and tradition. So helping our customers started get their arms around what it means to manage that data and all those aspects around the view of a customer is critical. Even the even the presentation tear you know it'LL be provides all those amazing technologies that allow customers to drive those rich experiences, whether it's on a tablet, whether it's on a mobile, whether it's on your desktop, ubiquitous doesn't matter. But that presentation tears is constantly changing. I mean, we didn't have, you know, the anger and the React ten years ago. Now you have all these other frameworks you have to begin to prepare for. >> About the one of his Aquino yesterday we've got my attention was the word and look, I love the way it sounds personalization at scale. And that's just just think about that concert for second. It's mind blowing. We love we love personalization doesn't like personalization. Yeah, but at scale a lot of moving parts. This is in your guy's wheelhouse. Century irregulars have large scale customers globally. What does that mean to you? Because I had us had happened best by so much. Send out forty million emails means insane the personalization experience. What does it mean? >> Well, what? >> When I hear something needs to be a scale, you gotta break it down to be a simple as possible. You got to figure out how you make that something super complex and dumb it down to where you truly can't scale it where you can enable people quickly. Um and sometimes you think big and start small so often What we'LL do is we'LL have our customers say, if you want to do one toe, one personalization we need to be thinking about how we can create content quickly, how we can create art quickly, how we can go and and operationalized that globally. Right, Because many times you need be working around the clock. So for me, when I think of that scale, it's how do we turn those capabilities on around the globe quickly for our clients and basically, you need to break it down. >> It's a place you go, though customs saying, Let's let's pick some use cases. That's a beachhead. Get that figured out. Make sure it's not a lot of moving parts. >> Yeah, and against >> software, because experience engine things of that nature >> and sort of start small, you know? So I you know, I would light up some teams take some initial use cases, maybe think about how you know, what are some of those you know, initial user journeys that end in journey. We wantto prove out. And then let's operationalize those. And then we'LL build on top of that overtime. >> Be asked by the Adobe announcements. What's getting you excited here? The event with some of the hallway conversations and conversations after hours, a lot different events going on. What are you talking about? What's the top conversation that you're involved in >> for sure AP when you talk about the new experience platform that's coming out and everything around there to me, I think that's a game changer in the marketplace, and I think it's also critical. Certainly OD eyes all wrapped in there and all the data theater aspects. But the new experience platform that Adobe is investing, it is sort of where I think our customers are driving towards and what's required in order to meet the demands of how to secure this data. How to wrap some permissions around it, how to take. You know what we would consider a P I and pH. I like data on be able to use it and more of their tools knowing that we have the security of the integrity of >> our CM taxi. Your job with customer experience. Platform >> right. Impact. Our job is it unleashes all kinds of potential. Uh, you know, when we do you think about what were out there helping our customers solution, it opens the gamut for us to go and sort of drive those next generation experiences in a much more you know, I guess, uh, formidable way, you know, I can >> more capabilities. Oh, absolutely. You know, >> execution. Exactly. What was super complex for me to build now just became a lot easier. Because now I have a frame, Eric and a structure and a platform that they're enabling it >> has impact the interview. The customer. I mean, so the partner landscape because you guys have a lot of partnerships, just always a key. One house. You hear Adobe Summit. But, you know, you might have some of these little Miss Provider's come in with a nice tool chain. Say, Hey, you know what? I want to plug this in the biggest center interactive engine. You guys got a lot of global breath. You're gonna probably get some impact on the ecosystem. How do you see partners? Because if it's an enabling platform and should be in the building something so that's going to tell Sign what? What's your view on the partner ecosystem? >> What's the first thing I'LL say about that is I think we're in a unique position because if you look at the scale we have at Accenture, so although I'm in extension interactive, I'm very focused on that digital and building the best experience on Planet I have this huge engine behind me of Broderick Center that has these capabilities. I mean, you know what we're dreaming up around, how we're working with Microsoft and happy Well, guess what? We already do that, too, so I can bring a lot of those vendor relationships and experiences capabilities and bring him right in house quickly. And when I need to go out to market and partner. I have those avenues, and I can go bring that niche that >> Lego blocks together now. Yeah, big things, auto integrate. Just put it together and >> adobes continue to invest in their io. And that allows us to integrate and plug in these things a lot quicker than we ever have before. >> What's the biggest challenge? You see it that adobe and the markers and and market is having the marketplace because a lot of new tech, a lot of great capabilities. Now emergency. There's a shift happening. Yeah, you know what kind of been going slow? You know, yard by yard, moved the chains like a football analogy. But now big movements gonna have we see happening Way. Siya shift coming. Big wave of innovation. What's the challenge? >> That definitely two challenges. I think one, uh, it's just the speed, right. The speed in which the market is moving. And how do you keep up with that speed? And how do you continue to invest in your own people? T learn it. And then, too, I think this year amount of data like the fact that we can store all this data. We have more data coming in than we've ever had before. I mean, just think of what I owe tea is doing to our our landscape and all the data that's coming in from a night and now we can use that as a as a whole, another level of, ah, sophistication and our analytics and our segmentation. And that's a tough job, right? That's how marketers keep up with that. It's, uh, it's changing their landscape, for sure. But what about just kind of the point of view when they get competition that comes out of complete left field, right, that you know, uber and lift or the obviously examples to get way overused. But you know, the company's heir now beating against companies that weren't even in their radar before that were purpose built on moving at light speed to your point. How do you help those legacy? Those legacy guys kind of take the big league, take the big step, get to hyperspeed personalization? I mean one thing. You can't be complacent, I think if you are complacent, your you know, one of those small, innovative companies is going to slowly eat your lunch on. So I think, you know, take advantage of that mindset that those small, you know, incubation type companies or this moth and maybe even think about How do I How do I build that same type of innovation within my own halls? And how do I take a manager? How that rapid development of that rapid change and oftentimes we're helping our customers go in and bootstrap that right started like, Let's go inside. And let's build a little innovation hub inside your own organization to go and compete with them. Otherwise, you know you're going to see what you know, like the case studies you just >> referenced right, because they're in the driver's seat, for sure. I mean, I think this is great innovation. Question. That week that came up in our last segment with Jim Leyland was you know, he talked about the vendor dynamics. Yes, When you have the world floating upside down, things have changed. Sweet vendors lead and enable. Now you have abs dictating terms, the infrastructure. That's a cloud model. He made a good point, he said. You know, a lot of the transformational stuff is great, but then it fails during integration and pointing out that they get to a certain point. It just crashes, not crashes. That's my word. But he said thiss challenges. It wasn't specific on outcomes of of transmission, we said pretty much its struggles and usually doesn't happen. Yeah, how do you see that? Because with now, automation machine learning Now you have agility in a marketing landscape, not just marketing cloud. You got all kinds of other things. It's like this sales and marketing. And there is everything you have agility. How does the integration impacts and has the delivery impact that transformation >> Goal? What ends? You're exactly right in the fact that when organizations make a big investment and Toby Technologies, they typically have a lot of other investor. It's another technologies as well. And so how do you create agility where you gotta plug and play sometimes more than one, and I'm sure Jim talk to you about our customer experience, engine and the beauty of that right where we can go and really bring a framework to our customers and our clients. That allows us to take the best of all these of all these experiences all these platforms, I should say, to build the best in class experience, and that's something we absolutely bring to the table. It's a framework. We've proved it out. And frankly, we have a whole bunch of connectors that already exist. So from my mind, when I'm trying to get them to be agility, I bring that type of thing to the table to help them move fast. >> I think that's a successful tell sign we see with successful, then vendors and partners and integrators is that you guys took your core competency and rose software and he packaged it up to automate the heavy lifting that I mean, why wouldn't >> you do the >> way you >> are accustomed there, >> buddy? I mean, I walk in our customers and I'm like, Well, they have a little this. They have a little that, then they're goingto go on, make this massive invest in Adobe, and it's like they're not going to just discard to retire some of those things. So way attempt to solve that problem. >> That's a real differentiate. Congratulations. Jim was great on that final question for you. Look going forward. What do you excited about? What's on your road map? What's what's next for you is the next leg of the journey for global delivery. Well, more delivery, you >> know. Honestly, it's it's to continue to build off scale around all of our locations. So when you look at its Centre Interactive were, you know, obviously a big North American business. But we have businesses all over the globe, and it's to continue to create, you know, to meet our customer's demands as they expand global. That's how do we deliver local and how do we deliver around the clock for them? And so for me, it's about build those capabilities everywhere you go South America, Australia, New Zealand in Eastern Europe, and, uh, and making sure that we create the same delivery patterns and we leverage the same assets and accelerators like the customer experience engine in all those places. >> And one final question. As you look at the arena of the all the vendors competing, what's the what's the winning formula? What's the posture that you see that's a successful vendor as they integrate it in this kind of these journeys in these experiences, what successful makeup of a successful supplier to customers >> from this from a from a technology >> that you look at all the players got Microsoft big part of the job you got Amazon, you got all these. You know, Marsh, Martek Stack is littered with logo's consolidations happening. There's a lot of battles battles on the field right now. Players of fighting for their future. >> Well, honestly, I think those who are going to make it as simple and as easy to empower their people to use is gonna be the winner. And I think you're you're seeing that certainly at at Adobe. But there's a lot of other formidable vendors out there who are creating very simple techniques to go on like this up. The more you could empower a business person and a marketer to do self service, the bigger win you're gonna have >> and to your point about scale. Simplicity. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Great insight. Thank you so much to share in the commentary. Appreciate Todd Schwarz here on the Cube Global delivery lead for the Adobe account for a censure Interactive Stevens. One more day to coverage after this short break. I'm John free with Jeffrey will be right back

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering Adobe summit 2019 brought to you by Accenture Interactive okay welcome back everyone so cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe summit 2019 I'm John ferry with Jeff Frick our next guest is Jim LaLanne CX orchestration practice lead at Accenture customer experience engine welcome to the cube Thank You Forex for joining us customer experience engine CX e CX a yes that's your product I should we work on what's the importance of that what's the big deal so the big deal is there's a proliferation of technology in the world and and one of the main challenges is everything's silent everybody has a different lens when you talk to the sales folks they have a view of the customer when you talk to marketing day of you nobody ever talks and the problem is when these organizations they think technology is the answer so and one of the things that we're always asked inside of the Accenture interactive is well how do you bring all this stuff together and we kept getting asked the same question over and over and over again and so finally we decided you know what let's do something about it let's make this so that you move the discussion away from technology and how can you accelerate your transformation and use something like CX e to bring that to life Jim you've been a pro in this business know digital back we're gonna you're mister you've seen many ways of the hype and the reality you know the titles of customer success man and your orchestration practice manager you know we're relevant but now more than ever those actually means something look at orchestration that's a big term used in cloud computing around orchestrating workloads customer success that's the theme of the show sure experiences so now more than every we're starting to see some visibility into tech implementations to hard problems that were being tackled by pioneers on the bass now in front and center here how do you summarize that that market right now because do you believe that to be true and what is that visibility what are people looking at right now and then what's behind it well for far too long it was always about the technology providers themselves or the in the cusp who are our customers the organizations that hire Accenture to help them transform but what we've seen is just a complete seismic shift it's all about what is the customer or the consumer one it's not about what we as organizations want it's about what the consumers want so we do very much see that as a trend that's moving and in in order to do that you really need to decouple your systems of engagement from your systems of record and by doing that it allows organizations to experiment so there's new technology coming in everyday probably while we're sitting here at least a hundred others have come to life yeah but it becomes hard because when you're always having that technology come into play how can you plug it into your own ecosystem to let the consumer get done what they want to get done on their terms because that's their expectation they don't really care what your internal problems are they just want to be able to get done what they want to get done and if they can't with you it'll go somewhere else so the practice what you're seeing is the practices have an environment that allows you to try stuff yes without a lot of hurdles and you know integration yeah so the standard thing would be any time an organization wanted to try a new product it could take anywhere from 6 12 18 months just before they could even figure out does it work what we're trying to do with cxe is turn that into a matter of weeks in some cases in a matter of days so by having a platform or a capability set up so as a new application comes in great I already know about the customer information because I'm making that transparent to everything I can plug it in I can experiment I spend a month I measured does this actually work if it doesn't great get it out let me try the next thing so it gives that flexibility to organizations which marketers love because the last thing you want to do is tell us CMO is like that idea you have that's great that's what really agility exactly come talk to me in nine months different now in terms of the people process and technically been talking about 360 view of the customer is short for donkey years right so what's now is different is it just a perfect storm of some of these things finally coming together is there some particular process or kind of secret sauce to get us over this you know finally we're here you know we can finally get that view of the customer one of the things that that started to happen was you started moving the I the idea and the concept of a single view of a customer out of back-end master data management legacy hard really complex applications and with the poll earlier for Asian what they call customer data platform CDP's there are applications that are built natively in the cloud that are exposed through api's it makes it easier to stand up those capabilities so it really starts becoming a question of well why wouldn't you do this so in the past it would be well I gotta go get capital expenditure money and I gotta go through this whole business justification now it's I can have something stood up literally in a matter of Miss villains which is purpose-built and it gives you that capability to then plug in place so that gives especially for us as system integrators it makes it exciting for us because we can say you know what I can stand up a single view of your customer I can be couple that from the sales force the Adobe's the Marketo we are the world up that would never built for that right that's not their expertise take a minute to explain what is the customer experience engine the CSE what is it so in essence it's the plumbing it's all the stuff that nobody ever wants to do that always destroys transformations so again this was one of these things where every single transformation you had ever seen I don't care pick your vendor Adobe s AP Microsoft where they always fall down is in integration it's just it's just the nature of the business so what we did with CX II was we said you know what what I want to be able to do is I want to have a micro services based architecture that allows me to if I have a client telling app one week I can plug that in three weeks later I want to use something like tulip I'm going to unplug what I have I'm going to plug tulip in but the experience that the consumer sees on the glass it doesn't change so when I'm writing a mobile application I'm going to use the experience API what sits underneath it and this is what CXC provides is that system API layer to then say you know what I'm going to unplug tulip I'm going to plug in something else the consumer is done to what it's like it's like a Tesla versus a car there's all the software updates going on behind the scenes changing the configuration of the automobile yeah similar experience you're gonna automate creating mechanisms so that the application the workload for the user is not disrupted by you're making modifications under the hood so to speak well think of it this way so and we'll go with the car analogy which was probably why with the engine engine mechanism but I was explaining it to another another gentleman and he said he's like you guys are like to pimp my ride of ID I'm not changing my engine what I'm doing is I'm adding a spoiler here I'm adding new tires and rims here I'm you know putting on you know flames I'm doing all these things but the underlying engine or the heartbeat of the engagement that stays the same what you're enabling me to do as a business is tailor and adjust based on consumer expectations so if today they really want to engage with us with email next week it's through a RvR I they have that ability and I don't have to completely retrofit my entire IT architect and this is the modern approach that we see people that are winning take a take a certain formula and that is build software abstractions in their areas of expertise so here if I get this right the the CXC the customer experience engine is essentially your domain knowledge of the center interactive extract it away to make it easier for the vendors to work through your system yeah so you solve your own problems but unstop being a customer benefit right because what we firmly believe the hard part in a digital transformation is not the tech which is easy for me to say because I'm the propellerhead in the room but to me it's it's a much more fascinating conversation to say how do we transform your people and your process to be customer centric that's actually the hard part it's not the tech so by taking the tech difficulty off the table then that allows them to jumpstart and get to the actual meet of changing how they operate and the other piece of that which i think is ensuring you didn't touch on that specifically but I'm I'm sure it's got to be there is it democratizes the access apps and the ability to do things with that data to the people that aren't necessarily tied into the ERP and tied into these other systems so you can now have other people running out algorithms doing tests doing experimentation so really that democratization is so important well it's amazing the empowerment that you give people when you just provide transparency of the data so when when the sales staff if the retail rep in the store all of a sudden has transparency of what have been the engagements that have been going on with the consumer they can have a meaningful conversation and they're focused on how can they help that consumer in that moment so we look at it as you know the last moment that you engage with a consumer is usually the most telling because typically you are 20% more likely to maintain loyalty if it's a positive you're only four percent likely if it's negative yeah and if anything you will lose 32 percent of your population on one bad experience so you look at your thoughts on the vendor relationship and that's so much locking because I think lock-in is really about value you do a good job you get value because we will use you but with cloud tick tools and api's are becoming a very key part of the tool chest if you will for the users and your customer base and so we're seeing that the skills gap and the retraining that's trying to happen tends to focus on api's and tools so Amazon's got a cloud everybody's no one wants to learn ten different tool sets right how do you view that because I think we hear from practitioners all the time and they always say you know I just want it to work I want infrastructure as code I love DevOps I love agility but I don't want to learn all these new tool sets all right but I'm comfortable with this cloud I'm comfortable with this these kinds of tooling tool chains or api's how do you see that evolving is that going to be automated away will it be innovation there what's your thoughts there so my general feeling is I think you're going to continue to see more and more consolidation of adoptions in the rest based API space just because one it's easier on developers and developers win so if you make a developer's life difficult they're just going to move to something else so for the organizations that embrace that they're gonna continue to see that you will you will start to see more and more automation but I mean ultimately at the end of the day the economy that we work in runs off of api's and it's really the more you embrace it the more you share information are willing to share information within reason I mean there's you know legal and all sorts of things that have to have to be looked after but you know that's what that's what drives things so we as Accenture we look at application partners that embrace that methodology embrace that belief system of let's make it easy to share data that's one of the things that you know Adobe Microsoft and sa P are doing what the open data initiative is also trying to make it easier to share information amongst different stacks so it's a it's a variation of that and I I do believe that you're gonna continue to see more of that just because again the consumer that's what they expect and also the cloud native trend also that's a tailwind for that movement as well because they expect it to short standards I mean to a certain extent if you think about what's even cloud native it anymore cuz a lot of times people say well I'm on Fram well where are you I'm from ma well I've got my virtual cloud sitting over here or my privacy it's just distributed computing all right what's getting you excited here at Adobe summit I mean I'm impressed with the platform play I think they got that right I think they didn't over reach its laid out nice single view the customer got the data pipelining and semantic engine on the on the other side of it and a variety of app integrations looks solid to me what's your thoughts on Adobe I think it's a good first step to be fair I think it's a good first step I actually applaud them for for going down that path I'm excited about the possibilities it gives to our customers who are embracing the Adobe stack I'd like to see them go further especially with in terms of extending it out to other partners as well because it's one of those things of there's no one platform that solves everything that's a large reason why we established cxe is the days where you could just have all Adobe and that's going to solve everything across they'll service marketing and commerce that's there's no one provider that has that so you need to have that ability to transfer data and to drive that experience so I'm excited about where Adobe's going with the experience platform because I think it's a good first step especially on their side to try and make it easier again it's about how do you make it easier to deploy applications so that you can serve the purpose for the consumer so I think it I think it's a good first I would you describe the makeup of the ecosystem community breaking down from developers to integrators and partners because as you start to see this kind of enabling platforms as you said it's a first step is foundational you'll see how it kind of evolves sure ultimately developers will to me will be a canary in a coal mine on this one but how does has the makeup of the community on the development side what did what it's the personas are the developers the hardcore cloud guys are they mostly app developers is there some segmentation what's your view of this I think so what I'm seeing is developers turning more into cross utilization of skills if there's there's less and less of I'm just this type of developer it's usually more of I'm gonna experiment and do a little bit of everything what I've actually been finding interesting is a lot of developers are turning into people that sit in marketing or sit in sales operations or you know some people have turned it citizen integrators but it's people who do not come from a technical background but the tools that are being created today are enabling them to do more of the integration work on their own and that's one of the benefits when you have open API is recipes api's is you can put more of that power in the hands of less technical users there's that's not to say you're not going to ever need hard for developers but what I'm seeing is more and more non-technical people are getting into the developers of time cycles are changing they want to be closer to those customers that the closer to the front line is not in the back office kind of coding away right you just you don't with with consumer expectations shifting on a dime you can't wait and that's one of the things that we spend a lot of time trying to help our IT side of the house customers is how to be flexible how to be nimble so that when marketing where any business leader comes to you and says hey I want to try this out you don't say I'll get back to you in nine months it should be I'll get back to you next week yeah and that's really the goal of what we're trying to do with new titles we had a guest on the queue we've been doing the queue for 10 years first time we've ever had a guest with a title marketing CIO which was kind of business saying look I got I got to sit in the marketing team and be a CIO over here and translate and put projects together and make things happen to your point about it's an integrator kind of like putting it all together well I mean it's no different than you see more and more CIOs become much more business focused business savvy they're not just hey I'm going to keep the lights on from a technology perspective the the more successful CIOs have that business lens no different than the CMO the CMO czar having to get smarter on technology and a lot of times what we're saying is the CMOS are driving the tech agenda not the CIOs so as a result I'm not surprised to see I'm the would you say was a marketing CIO Marketing CIO thanks for the insights great to have you on yeah I think get the talk tech and under the hood marketing text great final question for you what's next for CXC customer experience engine what's going on what's the next leg of the journey for you so the next leg of a journey is we've already got the integration layer laid out so we can pretty much plug-and-play any application that is out there we're really diving into real time analytics real time segmentation taking some of the power of the capabilities that are in the CDP space to drive those engagements so it's really it's it's an expansion and then that data space and making it that much more accessible to our customers that's great you guys bring some abstraction some automation to the table for customers it's a cube bringing you all the data here and insights I'm chef Fred chef Rick stay with us more day 2 coverage after this short break

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Accenture Interactive. >> Welcome back everyone to our live coverage, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Jeff Frick, our next guest Mishel Justesen, Group Manager, Dynamics 365 and Marketing Technology at Avanade. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> So we were just talking before you came on camera that you're in charge of Global Marketing Practice for Avanade. >> Yeah, so I'm what you called a Global Marketing COP Lead at Avanade and so basically what that means is I'm in charge of our marketing technology community, our marketing technology community at Avanade. >> A lot of relationships forming in the industry, a lot of discussions around open data, open APIs. How has the landscape shifted in the marketing technology realm over the past three years? Because you're seeing a lot of cloud computing like vibe going on, you're seeing agility, real time, AI themes kind of creeping into content development marketing. >> Yes, yes. >> It's changed a lot, how do you see it? >> It has changed a lot and I've been in the marketing technology industry before Marketing Technologist even existed. So I've seen a lot of change and I think the thing that I'm most excited about is the way I'm looking at things right now is as a Marketing Technologist, you don't have to integrate anything anymore. You can put your data in the cloud and marketers have a specific need for a specific type of data, right? So I don't have to integrate my marketing technology anymore, I can put that data in the cloud, I can enable it with some AI, and then I can send it wherever I need to go. >> So data's been the big flashpoint, in terms of inflection point and changing the direction of the industry, it's how people are handling their data and the thinking around it almost is from an architecture standpoint or use cases. What are the key trends there around the data? What are the big moving parts? >> Well, I mean one of the things that's always a pain point for marketers is all of those data silos that happen from all the different marketing tools that you'll have to use, right? So it's painful, so how do you report on that, what do you do, right? So what I really love is I love seeing how as markers, we can now put data into a single source of truth, along with all the other data that we can use to enable our reporting. For me, as a marketer, I've always wanted to be able to get access to my ERP data so I can really see the ROI on my campaigns and how they're actually doing. And if I can marry that up with the sales data as well and I can pull all that data from one place, I'm a happy camper. >> I got to ask you about being a marketing technologist because also we've been doing theCUBEs, our tenth year, covering thousands of events we've done over the years. First time ever, someone yesterday came on, a guest, and their title was Marketing CIO. >> Wow, that's fabulous. >> And we think that's going to be a big spring but it brings up the conversation of what does IT do, what does systems people do, because the notion of systems and data is not so much just in IT, information technology department problem or opportunity. There's new roles changing and coming together. How do you, what's your take on-- >> I thought you were going to ask me hard questions, this is an easy one, right? (chuckling) >> We'll get to the hard ones later. >> Okay good, so what I've found is really interesting is the transformation of the IT department versus the Marketing IT department, right? So IT has always spoken a certain language, right? But marketing and the marketing lingo, it requires a certain amount of expertise and when you have marketing technology you need to understand the lingo of marketing and what type of data and what kind of strategies to go after. You can't expect an IT department to understand that. So that's why you're seeing a Marketing CIO, because they speak the language of technology, right, Marketing Technologists, marketing technology, and they understand how to implement that technology. So that's where there's a nice shift in that going on, I love to hear this. >> Okay so now the hard question. >> Okay. >> So all the people that are here with Adobe, Adobe's got an ecosystem, you're in it, Accenture Interactive, everyone else, they're out there to try to sell services and products and experiences to the customer, the consumer, or B to B brands. Who's their buyer now? Who actually, who are they selling to? Is the personas the same, who is the person who writes the checks and makes the decision? >> The CMO. >> CMO? >> The Marketing CIO, right? (John laughing) I actually look at that from a different angle, personally. What I am after is actually the marketing team, right? So of course as marketers we understand what the customer journey is, right? And we have to be able to, as marketers, I'm putting myself in that persona of course, right? As marketers we have to make sure that we can get to those potential customers, right? But one thing that I'd like to just bring up, if I may, is that I'm more concerned about how does the marketer get their job done, right? So for me, at Avanade, I'm super excited about how I can help them get their job done better. So there's two markets there now. >> Yeah, yeah, and the roles are changing radically-- >> They totally do. >> You're seeing a lot of new things happening. >> So Mishel, curious to get your take, you've been at this for a while, how things have changed from kind of everything lining up in a funnel type situation to get to the sale, to now the sale is just part of an ongoing relationship-- >> It's a part of an ongoing experience-- >> That people are trying to establish so how does that change kind of the things that marketers need to think about, the KPIs that they need to measure beyond simply correlating a campaign back to the ERP system to see if they got a good ROI on that effort? >> Well, I think what's really exciting about marketing now is that we have a bigger seat at the table, right, at that table for the business. And with the ability to report and really show the value of what we do, we're not just top of the funnel. Traditionally what happens is we can do all the work we do to brings leads into a sales ecosystem and then we're like okay there you go. Sales, do what you need to do, right? We don't have to stop there anymore. We can help with the entire sales process. And once that sales process is done and we have a customer, we can continue to help the business engage with that customer. So we're part of the entire journey. >> Right, and I'm curious too, your take, which I think is driven a lot by mobile where your touch points are shorter but more frequent, right, more diverse but a lot more of them, all different stages of that funnel. Cause they can get a lot of information on their own. So how has that kind of changed from a marketer perspective, how to think about content, how to think about that journey, not just as a simple funnel that drives to a transaction. >> Yeah, our jobs are not easy anymore. Yeah, we really have to be more strategic as marketers. So what's interesting about that is across that entire journey, we have to somehow be able to provide an experience in the moment, right? And the good news is, is that we have lots of marketing technology that can help us do that, right? It requires a lot of data, it requires a lot of engagement, and then being able to ingest that information and react to it as close to real time a we can is, I think it's a huge challenge, but that's what we have to be ready for. >> One of the things we heard from a lot of the practitioners that come on, customers of Adobe, and the ecosystem is getting more diverse data so they can get the blind spots identified, where they think they don't have any visibility and the-- >> The white space? >> In the white space, well they don't have enough, well they don't know what's going on. So what they were mentioning was is that okay funnel's great but they're going into this other journey past non-linear progressions, new-organic or in other channels and they want to try to identify what's going on there. So they need to instrument it, right? >> Yeah. So the challenging is how do I get that silo data that might be somewhere else? Or if it's new data, new first-party data, or third-party data, getting more data exposed into these new progressions is a real challenge. >> It is. And they want to keep iterating on it. So that seems to come up a lot. What's your reaction to that and how does this new kind of, let's say horizontal or horizontally scalable experience users are having? How do you guys view that? >> Well I, again I would love as a marketer to have access to all my data in one place, right? And not just my data, cause we have, marketers have special data, right? I would like to make sure I have all my data in one place. So, adjure, put it in the cloud on my data service, right? Put it there for me so I can then enable it, I can start throwing some AI at it so that I can have AI working for me, right? So I can help-- >> Talk about that dynamic, take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud, because there's benefits to that-- >> Sure. >> You were mentioning earlier in the interview. Why is it important? Just take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud. >> Well, because it gets rid of the data silos that you have, right? So if you can put your data in one place and then pull it into the systems, just the amount of data you need you can get to it in bite size pieces, right? So let me just inform the sales team with the information that just they need, right? And for the marketing team, let me give them just the data they care about, right? Cause it's very different. But if we have all of that in the same place then we can pull it in wherever we need it. >> Talk about your business and how you guys are doing in marketing. What's going on in the global landscape? What are some of the big trends that you're seeing? What wave are you riding? What's the big business benefits you guys are going after right now? >> Well right now at Avanade, we're really focused on this Adobe and Microsoft partnership. Right, for me, it's a really exciting time to be a marketer because well, to be a Marketing Technologist, to be at Avanade and helping with this whole new partnership. We now have the power of a whole marketing experience platform, Adobe experience platform, right, and the partnership with Microsoft and we can bring these two platforms together, right so-- >> And LinkedIn too, although technically Microsoft-- >> And LinkedIn, yeah. >> Still part of Microsoft, but you got the Dynamics 365 and LinkedIn which are kind of different groups, right? But still Microsoft. >> Yeah. Yeah and LinkedIn's a great example too. So LinkedIn has two places for marketers and sales to work. So marketers can do the LinkedIn lead gen, right? And then Sales can look at the LinkedIn profiles and the company profiles right on that lead record on Dynamics 365, right? So Marketing and Sales can work together. I can bring the leads in as a marketer and a sales person, and I can look at that lead on LinkedIn. So that's super exciting. >> What content types do you see as working, obviously videos, hot right now. I was just at the RSH Show, Jeff and I were there. We saw, everyone's doing videos from video blogging to full sets. Obviously we're streaming here. Video seems to be a hot format. >> What are, what other-- >> Video has been a hot format forever, I mean YouTube came into existence and all of a sudden you've got citizen videographers, right? And then you can put content out there like crazy. I see that it's still a very relevant platform but I personally would like to see how we can use AI to start targeting content to people who are doing some sort of activity online, it doesn't matter where you're at, to engage them, right? >> I think the machine learning is a big point for the AI. And you mentioned earlier, you don't have to worry about connecting stuff and I think if you look at the experience platform that they announced yesterday, they have all these connectors on the sides of their architecture cause that's where you guys are also connecting in, right, This is where you guys see that automation happening. >> Yes, yes. >> Is that what you meant by auto-integrating? >> Yes, exactly, yeah so as someone that builds marketing technology stacks, right, using Dynamics 365 as the hub of that, one of the biggest pain points back in the day, as in a couple years ago, right, was does this integrate with my CRM? Because that's a pain point, how am I going to integrate? I don't have to worry about that anymore, right? Again, going back to putting data in the cloud, I don't have to integrate technology directly into D365 anymore, right, and that-- >> What's the table stakes in the mar-tech stack, what's changed on the table stakes because it's funny as evolution comes, these new capabilities become table stakes like integration. You can't integrate, you're out. What new things are going on in the marketing technology field that was an exception or a luxury just a few months ago or years ago that are now table stakes for marketers? >> Table stakes in the marketing technology landscape, I think Adobe is really, let me shamelessly plug that cause I'm so excited about it, right, Adobe's really a leader in that. So how do you take an entire marketing technology platform, right, and it's not just, it's email marketing, it's your web space, it's your whatever other tool you have, right in your marketing technology stack. How do you aggregate them together in a way that makes sense for the marketer to use. So I think what you're going to see is things need to be really easy for the marketers to use on their own, right? Sometimes you need developers to do a lot of things, right? These pieces of technology can be really tech heavy in that respect, and I think you're going to see a lot of drag and drop capability, let's enable the marketer, the citizen marketer as I like to call them, to actually build what they need more on the fly. And you're seeing that a lot right now-- >> Well it's funny-- >> Marketo's very similar like that. >> Cause when you said the good news is the marketers have all these tools, I thought you were then going to say and the bad news is the marketers have all these tools. (John laughing) >> That's so true, yeah. >> Cause there's so many of them, right? >> There's such a, I know, influx of possibility, right? >> Right, so to have an integrated platform that pulls a lot of the core pieces together, you don't necessarily have to worry about the laundry list of potential tools that you might-- >> Exactly, exactly. >> That you might leverage. Already pre-integrated, ready to roll, super. Final thoughts on seeing the Satya on stage, that's got to help your enthusiasm for the partnership. >> 100%. (John and Jeff laughing) >> Good. >> I'm super happy to be here and I'm a huge advocate of the partnership so I'm really excited to see this happening. >> I think Adobe's done a great job. We're tough customers to please in terms of the tech but on the cloud side, the way they laid it out. The got all the things we think right, the first party-- >> Yeah, it's brilliant. >> Module, the data pipe lining and semantics was those are two, I think, beautiful architectural pieces. >> I agree. >> I think it's going to be, if they can get this thing automated and getting going, no more integration-- >> Thank you for making my life easier. (all laughing) I know, right? >> We'll see some acceleration on your end, with technologists. >> Yes, yup, I'll help, I'm here. >> Mishel, thank you for sharing the data and insights on theCUBE. >> Of course. >> Thanks. >> Of course. >> Great insights here on theCUBE, Adobe Summit, I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick, stay with us for more Day Two coverage after this short break. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for W twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery Jeffery, my co host. Next guy's a demon Danza whose the global president of a censure interactive operations Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. >> So learning a lot about the interactive piece I sent you. Interactive. What is the Centre Interactive operations? What does that do? What's the function? >> Extension Interactive Operations is the manage service arm of Accenture Interactive. And together we design, build and activate scale the best experiences on the planet for our clients. What we were finding is you know, a lot of clients were very happy with our design lead creation of experiences, but they really wanted more help to activate, operate and scale those experiences across the world. I think scale ability is now becoming the crux of many of our CMO conversations. And so it was very important for us to build out Accenture Interactive operations to scale those experiences for our clients, >> given example of what it entails. And I'm just trying to follow it through. So, like, operations, meaning like Okay, that interactive team sets up everything they hated off to you and you guys wired together is in the cloud. Isn't analytics think us through how the operations workflow is? >> Yeah, well, except your interactive very much design and build the solution for clients. And absolutely, we then come into play to make sure that way Developer, man and machine operating model. So basically, we spoke marketing engines for clients that a data powered and also we design hub and spoke models for clients across the world to give them their speed, scale and agility that they now need in their coms. So very much, you know, we architect the right or model that is needed. The client that's the marketing operating model as well as the content operating model, so that we can effectively taken experience and scale it across multiple touchpoints seamlessly with huge brand consistency across every single consumer touch. >> So they stand out very quickly then, so that their goal is okay. Get it into market quickly, stand it up, get it going >> absolutely. And rapid. Standard is really so important because there's a speed in in sort of compression of go to market, and now clients can't have weeks and months of lag time between a creation off a product and the deployment of the broader on DH. So that's why we critically have come to the party with a very man and machine and data driven model. Teo, Give them that speed. So it really is from idea mediation, proof of concept, out to market. We truncated that whole supply chain and marketing supply chain quite significantly >> so that you talked about scale and global reach. But at the same time, your warrants personalization, right? So the challenge of personalization at scale is very different than just scale for scale sake. So how are you helping clients address that part of the equation? >> Well, first and foremost with any approach to hyper personalization, the way that we actually consume and segment the data is critical. So at its centre, interactive operations will play a key role in dealing with first, second and third party data off a client to be able to devise the right cohort groups that they need to effectively target in a world of hyper personalization that's directly related to their growth ambitions. Then we will make sure that the data actually feed the content creation and customization, so that the right message conversation experiences going out to the right client at the right time in the right way. And I think that, you know, we've really hone that for a lot of clients. BMW, Disney, Malia Hotels, G S, k, Et cetera, et cetera. And it's proving unbelievably successful. >> You guys are a huge partner of Adobe and partner of the Year, pretty much every year. Great presence globally. You've got to be excited when you look at the charts on yesterday's Kino when they lay out the platform because they're setting up exactly the kinds of mechanisms around data pipeline ing, semantic translations and then really time personal. I mean, they're building everything into a platform to make a data driven, and that's the hard part of all this. I mean, what you just laid out is a hugely complex story, and to do that quickly is huge task. >> Oh, absolutely. You >> gotta like what adobes doing now with their Platform >> I am loving water job he's doing, and they're making it easier. They are almost accelerating. Where now referring to is the platform ization of marketing on DH. You know, marketing technology is now circle thirty percent off the marketing budget. That's a lot, that's I mean, that's obviously the highest it's ever been. And it's only going to go one way. So now, to be able to actually set up designed the right marketing technology, leverage it fully Onda. Also, once you've got foundational tech like Adobe Toe, also build additional vertical bespoke technology onto that really starts to get clients too competitive. And so >> that's some of the challenges markers have because we've seen the evolution of the Internet infrastructure since their Web one dot oto whatever version you call it now. But in my mind, I just see this montage of this Martek stack that logo slides that comes out every year and it's Oh my God, it's like, huge. So So So the question is, has Martek failed to live up to his expectations? All these point solutions? Or is it just natural evolution that these things are kind of consolidating into kind of pillars of of technologies with more business conversations over the top? Because that's the question that way. Here, a lot from practitioners. Just look, I don't need another platform. I don't need another tool. I got tons of tool, got tons of platform options. I just want this stuff to work. Absolutely. How do you see this? Key challenges from marketers >> I think I think it's incredibly challenging, just challenging into your reference to the Loom Escape. I mean, the Loomascape has over six thousand Martech and adtech companies in it, and we're going to see an acceleration of that consolidation in that landscape. You're absolutely right. The point solutions are going quickly accelerate to an end to end solution. So everyone is a bit of musical chairs going on at the moment. With regards to the M in a landscape on DH, it's getting more acute, actually buy them by the week. So market is a very, very challenged still, to be able to procure the right technology to be able to also make sure that they're getting maximum utilization from that technology. Some of that technology is very, very expensive, so they have bought the licenses. But actually they don't necessarily have the skills, the talent, the capabilities to drive the technology effectively. It's almost like having a Ferrari but not having a driving licence. So we're helping clients to be able to properly drive the technology and to be able to also ascertain if they have the right technology in the first place, because the landscape is moving so quickly >> or the more the wrong technology and repurpose it and re skill. I mean, it's a huge operational challenge. Absolutely. Your operation comes in and this is This comes up a lot in our conversations. I love the new capability. I just wish I knew howto implement it >> and >> then operationalize it and staff around it so that everything's in my marketing mix and in agility way, not a waterfall kind of >> completely. And that's what we do in terms of our human and machine model. We look at the ad tech Martek stacks that we're building for clients. Make sure that they're truly proprietary, bespoke doing the job that they're intended to do in terms of marketing for growth and then literally we help clients maximize everything that they can get out of that technology and making sure that really data and analytics is driving the content creation, driving the content customization cause you're now in a world of algorithmic optimization when it comes to atomic content, lots and lots of little pieces of content that I needed to fire at loading loads of different cohort groups. We could take that all on and actually make it pretty painless for a client to do that across multiple countries. >> Thank you. What about from the other side of the equation? The receiver of all this micro targeted atomic for major consumer? This's so much stuff. I was like It's like it's like driving through a snowstorm with your headlights at night. You know, it's just like, how do you get through the tent? How did you get people's attention? How are you helping people get attention in this increasingly cluttered, busy and just, you know, over sensitized, you know, kind of inbound world in which we live as consumers? And it's one thing for me to see. I think of the poor B to B marketers. Oh my goodness, what a crazy challenge they have now. >> Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great question, and I think that now it's it's less about attention. Necessarily. It's more about relevance because if you manage to achieve hyper relevance in your communication, you know, customer first communication, then by default, you are going to get the right attention and you're going to get the right result from that experience, conversation, communication, etcetera, etcetera. So really, I think being able to really excel at hyper personalization is really what we're focused on now. And data is the answer to that. And data hand in hand with artificial intelligence and machine learning really gives us an unbelievable combination on puts hyper personalization on steroids. >> I'm gonna ask you on that point, cause content becomes a key part of the marketing mix at all at levels er known and all well paid all that good stuff. But content has is about data to because being relevant is also contextually aligned with targeted distribution of that of that that those audiences. So the question is we're seeing with our video's content drives a lot of community engagement. How are customs? Think about the role of community because as the users become part of their brand engine, this is now part of a new closed loop that's developing. How do you guys see that connecting? Because if you get the content right and you get the targeting through your operations, you then will they be able to put certain content in certain channels with the right data. That means the programming has to be relevant, which is another task. But if they get that right, the community engagement goes off the charts. How do you see the community part of developing? What is the brand marketers do after that? >> I think the community aspect is critically important, and it's hand in hand with the importance of first party data and everything that I mean, we really are gravitating towards a world of first party marketing activation. The first party data that clients hold is unbelievably potent, and there in lies your your the secrets of success to creating a highly engaged community. And, yes, we are taking a leadership role now in producing long and short form content. When it comes to making sure that it's laser focus to that particular Koval group, it has to be hyper relevant on DH. Absolutely, to your point, some of the community members want to create that content themselves. So we also play a part in whether it's the finer points of influence of marketing, making sure that we're helping thes stakeholders create the right content and then helping them distributed effectively and efficiently >> and then scoring users and reputation Relevant Reputation >> comes yes, because they become I mean, key influences in B to C and beater B to B are so important is when it as it pertains to the viral ity of the communication. So they're almost like channels, you know, the influences are almost like channels in off themselves, and they can actually, you know, put the communication on steroids if they are effective at there >> for the news. I think I get what you're saying. That the new formula is a collection of niches is the new reach number. It's a rather nice blast to the reaches. It's a collection of niches that are programmable, inexpressible >> absolutely. It's almost like the collection of cohort groups together gives you that mass communication. >> I'm curious kind of the take on softer some of the softer types of communications that content around, you know, mission. And we heard you know, sati and the keynote earlier today. Talking about mission and a lot of people are are really not so much concerned, but they care. They care about what the mission of the company is in some of these kind of social and, you know, not necessarily direct attributes of the product or direct benefits of using the product, but more of a private company, not necessarily product that they sell. How do you see that evolving in kind of the marketers tool kit and kind of the rising importance of that type of of engagement with community? >> Yeah, when we told took Teo client CM o's and CDO. Specifically, we talk about purpose as well as the product differentiation. I think in today's world, you have to have both on by purpose. You don't necessarily have to have a lofty purpose because not everyone can look at a lot of CPG clients. They can't have a lofty purpose, but they can be purposeful. They could be hyper relevant in your life, and that's what we try and attain and achieve. So I think it's very, very important reading a lot of work at the moment, with clients almost stepping back and saying, Well, what business are you actually in? What is your raison Detrol? What is your purpose in life and how do we amplify that then through all forms of communication? Because then once you've got that sussed. You really do have the the critical ingredients off designing, creating the best experiences on the planet and activating them. >> Transparency becomes a big part of the user trust equation as well as a user experience and relevance. Because of your transparent, they want to see the day that this becomes a whole new dynamic. >> Transparency is critical because anyone can find out anything in two minutes, you know, on the interweb. So you know, you have to. Transparency is not trust. Transparency is not >> enough. All right, so I gotta ask you about the conflict between innovation and regulation and market. A name is because we've seen innovation always run hard and fast, and then regulation tries to catch up and kind of fit in first party date. It's super important as this new shift digital was happening where it's kind of moving from the old, you know, email blast to the old communications static channels to more dynamic, You starting to see the rise of distribution platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, among other zillion other third party AP. I driven platform. They're all having third party data. So how do you How does the customer your customer brands balance The need for first party information that they have and or are now putting their content out in these channels is a huge thing because not everyone has opened data. So how do you guys review that trend? And how early is it? What needs to be done? Is it okay? >> Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, the clients that do have very rich first party data, particularly financial clients, telco clients, etcetera. We really helped them amplify that first party data to help them activate with clients that don't necessarily have rich first parties ater like a lot of CPG clients, we help them build that first party data. And that's also sometimes where the purpose comes in on the community building comes in because when you get those two things, you know when you hone those two things, you can actually start to build a community, and then you can start to build Richard first party data so that we can help clients activate off of that third party data. We're getting a little bit more forensic with regards to whether or not that third party data is truly additive. And sometimes it's the smaller third party verticals specific to travel, etcetera, farmer, et cetera, et cetera. Where the third party data is actually most potent. So it's important. Teo. Almost look att depth more than bread when it comes to you >> and blending the data together. >> Exactly. But it has to be additive because there are some third party data sources which aren't truly additive toe activation. Therefore, we can discard them. >> Nikki. Great content. You're amazing. Insights are broad and great. Really relevant. Thank you for sharing data here on the Q. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me. It's been fun. >> Live coverage here, too, Joe be summat. Twenty nineteen. I'm Jeffery, Jeff Frick, Dave Tune from or day to coverage after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by X Ensure Interactive. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Day two of live coverage of the Cube here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit twenty nineteen. I'm John Career with Jeff Brick, Our next guest needing Stallman, managing director of a Censure Interactive. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> You can't miss your booth when you walk in. Got a nice set up there. You guys got a big prominent location to show. Tell us about Ascension Interactive. And what you guys doing the show? >> Oh, yeah. So thanks again for having us is a great a great summit. A great conference. It's one of our big kind of showcases for the year. We've got a couple of different experiences Were demo ing this year. We've got some really cool X are experiences that people are coming by the booth and putting device is on and it really interacting with and having fun with. We've got some interesting topics around Trends in content creation, headless content, train three D, etcetera. So some great topix around kind of Howard disrupting marketing and content with our clients today. >> Contest becomes so important now, Not only is it you have content development creatives. You have all kinds of applications now. Integrating was once kind of a cottage industry of creative doing cool stuff. Now that's kind of table stakes. It's a whole another level of cloud computing meets creative, so it's kind of an interesting growth curve right now, you're seeing a lot of adoption, a lot of the kind of tools from Tech in with the creative talk about that dynamic, because that's kind of the whole show here. It's all about not just marketing Cloud, and it's about creative experiences and now the new cool stuff out there and people try to figure out how to do it. I want that dynamic of creative tech coming together. >> Yeah, it's enemy from Accenture Interactive. That's really kind of where we've built our business around having that as a technology company that's really drawing a lot of specific talent to build out that creative tak kind of talent mindset. It's a different way of kind of operating and working and building those experiences, so we're kind of first and foremost and experience agency S O. We're all about building experiences for our clients, and it's a kind of ah maybe unique patch that we've we've carved out for ourselves. To say you have to consider technology is part of it and data and effectiveness and analytics. But then, actually, how do you build experiences that are really engage our customers and be really innovative? So certainly has its center at interactive. That's our That's our remit. And we're working out some really exciting work with clients in that area >> about the difference between center interactive and century proper. Because we've done a lot of enemies with center you guys, we're different talked about. The difference is that you guys have and what what's your mission? >> So it's enter. Active are first and foremost. We are an experience agencies. So again, those experiences could be everything from your typical kind of website experience. And how do you best in engage consumers at your site to commerce? Teo X are so we've got a Z mentioned it, several different applications of experiences and x r that we're demo ing here, and we're working on with our clients, um, a R V r as well as sale stools. So in the centre interactive, we take it, we take a creator first, like what is the experience. We really need to build, do the right type of research and then bring in the design, talent and the unique kind of optimization, talent and technology talent to be able to ensure that whatever we're building for a client is actually scaleable for more than just kind of that one exciting news case they've got. But how do you ensure that that's really going to be the right platform in experience? They can scale for other parts of the enterprise of the parts of the business, etcetera. We're proud of who we are >> seriously, because you guys are involved in a lot of things. You keep saying x r for extended reality, and I think it's interesting because some people think it's got to be one hundred percent immersive or not. But if you guys air pioneering, this is a lot of places to kind of extend reality. Blend the rial and the C g. I. And it kind of had this mixed combo experience. So where people using that what are some of the interesting opportunities beyond no trying on a dress from the computer with your with your avatar that you guys are working on >> right, So so definitely have our share of kind of cool consumer experiences and, you know, wanting interesting. That's things that's happening in the market is consumers. They're expecting as they start to engage with RVR, even like immersive commerce. And, um, you're online configurations for shopping and it kind of configuring your own products. They're expecting the same level of, like, hi and visualization that they're getting in the programs and media that they're consuming at home. So getting that right is that's That's a challenge for a lot of brands, and it's a challenge. And technologies, they're changing pretty rapidly to support that. So we've got an experience here were demo ing this week, which is is really on kind of that high end past, which is allowing your design your own your own bathroom experience with countertops, and it's so realistic that you can literally you feel like you could touch that. You could appreciate the textures. You can touch the experience. So it's it's really helping to kind of give customers give consumers back control, but they don't have to rely on a contractor and other types of design services. They really have many options. They can see what that looks like in their own space. I can do that from the convenience of my home, etcetera, and that's kind of one end around. And it's still consumer facing and how to brands create more amorous of shopping experience and make that pass to purchase easier, effective, faster like and, you know, close well. The other types of experiences that I think you're really, really powerful and really interesting is it's starting to use x r for training purposes. So we just want to go home. Oh, actually at Mobile World Congress for PR experience that we built to train foster care professionals on go on making incredibly complicated is around what to do with families and children and really trained them. So how do you take a very subjective experience and train people for the different scenarios to make the right judgment calls? And so that's an interesting kind of application of X r. We're also doing X are in the field of service service technician, so working on automotives and ensuring your using hand, our virtual technology to be able Tio I understand, is that the right party should be working on and what are the best practices around around, whether it's a home technician that's going out and trying to install our complex device or working at an automotive so >> so practical use cases. And then there's also the glamorous ones, like Game of Thrones. Talk about you guys. The relationship with game of thrones is a dynamic. Their share want the shows so that the Cube we Go game of thrones fan. So you guys were somewhat involved in that Such share. >> Yeah, so on. And it's very timely. Obviously, with the final season coming out of the fourteenth, and for like, super fans like myself, it's It's been an exciting year for us. So, um, Extension Interactive has done a very deliberate Siri's of acquisitions over the past ten years, and last year we acquired MCA Vision. So Maga Vision was renowned internationally for their CD I and special effects work on DH. No. One of the most exciting words they've received is an Emmy for outstanding visual effects for game of thrones. So So you got a lot of buzz at the time saying, What is extension interactive? What's what's the kind of thought process, their game of thrones, visual effects, and it really was all about this idea of, you know, again, consumers are expecting this level of visual and this level of experience in how they're interacting with you. So, Mac, a vision was a very we needed a way to be more innovative and how we're bringing the right talent and capabilities to building X. Our experiences, product configurations, etcetera and maka vision had unique capability around three visualisation CG I visual effects and really that again, that whole package of kind of art and technology to create these very high end visualization experiences. So So it's been a really exciting here for us. Um, and starting to now take that model and start to bring that Teo marketing teams that were working within the brands e commerce teams and starting to say, How do we create these type of >> bond? That >> it's It's a nice looking the MCA vision sight and and some of the you know, they have some of the cool movie stuff. But I was fascinated by the car stuff, right? They have these beautiful car shots for car commercials, and I'm curious after hearing about, you know, a be testing and you know all the things that you could do with your experience in the dental experience. Interactive are seeing that now with I got forty seven versions of that car commercial because now if I'm doing it with Mac Division, I don't have to shoot forty seven versions. I can manipulate the CG I car in a very different way because I know that you said super high gloss, super high glam. But it's programmable, so you can do stuff with it without having to call the team together and hope for a beautiful day in Carmel to go over the bridge. >> Exactly all those variables. So I mean brands right now, as they're trying to kind of create trying tio react and set up models to support hyper personalization programmatic content in it that is so challenging. It's so challenging because traditional >> means of >> going out and doing the shoot that you're talking about and doing. Even product shots and tons of photography like you have to create so many versions so expensive to be able to support all of your products. All the variations when you put global into the mix and you've got different labels and different languages etcetera. So, again, it's a It's a scale problem today. I think a lot of people think it's a technology problem, but it's actually it's actually that that's a solution. But it's definitely it's a human problem. And so in our practice, we focus on content creation models. And so this is why Macrovision acquisition so essential is we were disrupting the way continents created, whether it's for brands and their their commercial spots or it's their commerce content. Or or there social media content. By using this idea of taking a digital twin of, let's say, the Mercedes or the Mercedes car and being able to take engineering data and visualize a product digitally before it even exists before I mean literally, the prototype is not available. You know this amazing flexibility. Teo certainly configure that in many different ways, digitally. For these shoots, all you need is some some background in Madrid, etcetera, to be able to roll the car through, um, and Tamar and Magic. But you're able, Tio, you're now able Teo, represent that product, get your media created and put it into market to start generating buzz presales, et cetera. I mean, that's that's so powerful. You're getting ahead of product launch. >> How did how are the cost dynamics changing? Because before you said, it's expensive to do is shoot Yes, but now you can do multiple flavors within the computer is just radically different economics, because I'm sure when they come in and say, I want you guys to game of thrones I want that kind of production value like, yeah, that's really the expectancy. Yeah, To do it in software is a completely different kind of approach. >> I mean, I don't know how brands are not going to give it to this model because they cannot possibly they cannot. They're goingto exponential cross to be able Teo, keep pace with again, even just the variation of product, much less starting to now. Personalize that or be ableto dynamically. Render that so. The cost model today is is is exorbitant, and it's just growing. And so this because you're now able to configure things digitally and again used the right tools to be able tio represent different versions of product changed. The backgrounds, change, change, any of the factors that you need to be able to say this is a new piece of content that. I think it's better targeted at this segment. You want to test that out a little bit. I don't want to kind of double down on that and ending for all of that cost to go do this. You gives you a ton of flexibility, especially, and how you're bringing you no talent in wants to shoot it once and then and that enviable to swap. For example, I may change the bracelet on the talent to do five different ads out instead of >> risk management to a swells testing. Knowing what you're looking at, getsem visibility into what success looks like then, kind of figuring it out. One thing I want to ask you is that in the tech business, we've always been fascinated by Moore's law doubling the speed of the processors. That's Intel thing. But if you look at what you guys do with the game of thrones on the high end with CG, I see the C g I and all the cool stuff. The experiences that people have today become the expectations or the expectations become the new experiences. So you've seen an accelerated user experience. Visually, you got gaming, culture, gaming environments. I mean fortnight wasn't around two years ago. Right? Half the world pretty much plays the game or you got game of thrones. So he's now will soon become table stakes, these kinds of experience. So I got to see where you guys are going with that. How does that change how you guys operate because you gotta look at the expectations of the users consumer. That might be the new experience. How to figure out that dynamic is challenging. How do you guys do that? What's the What's the guiding philosophy around that? That trend? >> Yes. So we have, um we're maniacal about ensuring that the experience for designing is really well thought through with the right research in the right input from us. We're on the right contact. So while it may sound like a great idea and it may sound like something you need, like, how do we make sure we're doing the right thing? Right? Diligence, Tio to build the red experience and represent the product in the right way. And then we also a maniacal on the back end of testing and after optimizing that so being very realistic about is it effective is a driving is driving. Whatever the K p I is, even if it's just innovation, is it driving the KP eyes, uh, that you need and then adjusting? Because nothing could be stagnant? He's >> super exciting area. I mean, there's so much opportunity and change going on. Awesome final questions about the relationship with the job You guys are here. Adobes got a whole growth strategy in front, and that looks really strongly gotta cloud technology platform. Now they're integrating data across multiple their modules in their suites. How does that impact you guys? What's your relationship with Adobe? Yes, >> so we are. We are very big partner of Adobe. We've had a accolades throughout the years of being partner of the year. So we have a large practice dedicated Teo helping clients really look at how to implement the stack howto build content and campaign delivery models on top of that. So it's, um, both the technology and an implement implementation focus, but quite frankly, and I think what's unique is a is a process and kind of how do you operational as that focus? Like I said, you know, everyone's talking about atomic comic, the atomic content these days and certainly, I mean the adobe stack. Absolutely. Khun support that And really power personalized dynamic content for you is a brand but operational operational izing. That is a totally different story. So we're really working with the Adobe team closely on with our customers. Tio kind of build the model on top of the stack and say, How do you need to change your organization to really, really get the value out of out of these tools and really deliver the experiences that are going to be differentiated? >> We've heard that all along all week here and other events we go to is that it's not the tech problem. It's these new capabilities being operationalized older cultures as a people process problem. >> Yeah, it seems >> to be the big, big story. >> It's a it's it's. And I would say it's an ongoing challenge for the brands we work within, and they're constantly getting additional. Um, uh, market demands to be able to kind of continue changing their model. Like I said, programmatic particularly and hyper personalization is is really putting that into practice is is >> great practice Navy. Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights here on the I do appreciate it. Thank you very much >> for having me >> live coverage here in Dopey Summit twenty nineteen in Las Vegas. To keep coverage day to continue. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> Male Voice: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. Well, welcome back everyone. Cube's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier my cohost Jeff Frick,. For these next two days our next guest is Cynthia Stoddard CIO Adobe, former CIO of NetApp. When you were on the cube last time we were on >> That's right. AT&T now called Oracle Field ironically. >> Wow. >> I mean that is a transformation in itself. Welcome to the cube. >> Yeah, I'm glad to be back. >> Thanks for coming on with you, appreciate it. So your keynote, you had an amazing conversation around with the CIO from Intuit. >> Yes. >> You guys talked about changing the culture of the company. Talk about that conversation. >> Yeah, so I, we have similar, I would say, our companies has similar paths and that we both used to be box software and now we're, you know, we're operating out of cloud SaaS providers. And you know, it's really interesting and actually Atticus and I were just on another panel talking about this. When you sell a box, you don't really know who your customer is, right? But when you sell through a SaaS or an e-commerce site, you know a lot about your customer. 'Cause you know first of all, who they are. Then as you go through the customer journey, you can understand the different touch points. You can understand, you know, what the pain points are, what they're using, what they're not using and really gear your product and your information to really make that experience a lot better for the customer. >> Yeah, and even even more than that 'cause when you ship the box, you ship the box. And bye bye box he has no idea how it's being used, when it's being, he's not only the who, but the how and the whats. Now that you're connected to all your users and the way they use their products, the amount data that you have to make continuous adjustments, to pick your feature prioritization. It's completely different ballgame. >> It's exactly right. So you really take an outside view and outside in view of the customer versus an inside out. And you know, the customer and their experience becomes front and center and you focus in on that. And then additionally, you know, that impacts all of your processes inside of the company because they were all geared for that. You know, we don't know who the customer was before. Now you have to gear to knowing who the customer is, providing that right level of information through a number of different, you know, different functions, consistent information so that everybody can operate to the, you know, the same level of knowledge and same level of understanding. And when you look at your IT infrastructure as well, it's gotta be geared for that experience. So what you used to do on a cycle, now becomes real time. So if you think about, you know, downtime or invoicing or you know, customer lookups whatever, you need to have that always on, experience for the customer. So your operational excellence, your resiliency again, changes dramatically with that customer view, the outside in. >> One of the things you mentioned in the keynote I thought was really an important point was about the cloud journey and the role that data plays in the integration of data. And you had a couple of key tenants. >> That's right. >> That you talked about. Can you just quickly explain that, 'cause I think that's a point that everyone's talking about right now and it's really hard to do. And you guys have an interesting angle on this. Can you share your a prospective on that? >> Absolutely. So the tenants are commonality of data, consistent measurement, actionable insights and I focus in on the actionable, you know, the action part and then data governance. And when you think about it, you know, you have all this data around the organization, you know, it can be in different data lakes, it could be under, you know, somebody's under somebody's PC, you know, under their desk or whatever. And when you start getting into looking at that customer journey, what initially happens is everybody brings their own data to the table. So my data is different than your data but of course my data is the one that is best and correct, right? So what you need to be able to do is really get that consistency and definition. So, you know, if we're going to have, you know, even just define what customer is, what is, you know, what does that term? But when you get that, then how do you measure it? And you know, you may have a term but, you know, you have to put the boundaries around how do you measure it? How are we going to look at it? You know, what's good, what's bad and that sort of thing. So that's the consistency of measurement. The actionable insights is, you know, you can do a lot with dashboards and I think a lot of IT organizations have a gazillion dashboards that they have. But I would ask how much of that is actually actionable. So what we focused on is let's get the insights, let's get the information into our data, you know, our data repository into these dashboards so that people could act on it proactively as opposed to just say, oh this is great. And then the fourth area is data governance. What we did is we made sure and working with our business people that the metrics that are selected to measure that are consistent have business owners and they are responsible for owning that definition. They're responsible for owning the quality and they're responsible for owning how they're used throughout the entire organization. >> We had for the first time, we have been doing the CUBE for 10 years. We had a guest on this event came on for the first time with a new title we've never seen before. >> Oh Wow. >> Marketing CIO. >> Marketing CIO. >> One of the customers, Metlife, talked about how marketing and IT are coming together and how the CIO has to be aligned with the marketing CMO if they wanted to serve the business unit. This was a criteria that he said is what organizations should look like, if they're ready to to be transformed. >> Yeah, yeah. Can you comment on that because you're looking at it from you're at Adobe, so you kind of have the inside view. There's a confluence of the worlds coming together. Business and tech. >> That's right. That is, and it is and it used to be, I would say an organization's that there was walls between departments, right? IT was behind this huge wall. And that can't be any more. Technology is pervasive and the organization and when I look at marketing, I would say that the marketing discipline probably has some of the most mature data and analytic skills of anybody in the company. That's what their roles are, right? Is to analyze the customer marketing campaigns, how can they bring this value into the organization? So they've got that skill. What IT has is the big data skills. We know how to process, we know how to govern, we know how to make sure that the data is there. So, you know, bringing the two worlds together is actually really a perfect marriage because you're bringing the big data discipline together with the people who know how to look and analyze that data and come together. You know, to really deliver those really great actionable, I'll use actionable, again, actionable insights. So when I look at how my team works with our marketing organization is blended. You go into a room, you would not know who is IT, you would not know who the marketing. You won't be able to tell. It's interdisciplinary. From the time, I mean from staff meetings, from the time of working on, you know, a new idea, all the way through to sprints of getting it done. They are hooked at the hip together and marketing and IT are working jointly. I mean we have joint sprint teams and things like that >> So I gotta ask you the kind of historical question. You look back, CIO roles evolving over time. You've seen a couple of key points. Obviously, security, cloud, data, big data these kinda changed a little bit of the direction trajectory of IT organizations. And now you've got Adobe with a platform and integrating data across of it is gonna yield some new capabilities. It's always hard to operationalize new. >> Yeah. >> Your customers, for Adobe's customers who have not just Adobe products, they might have other, other stuff. >> Right. >> So they have multivendors out there. A lot of different data, a lot of diversity data. So the kinda pull it all together. Is a really hard task. So how does a CIO have to deal with that now? Because you're gonna use first party data now we got privacy, you got GDPR kinds of things. You mentioned governance, so it sounds really hard. How does it get easier? >> It's not easy. It's not easy, that's for sure. But I would say, I mean a few different ways. I would say first and foremost the CIO has to be out there with their business partners, you know, with the CMO, with the CFO, with, you know, with everybody in the business. And you know, really understand, you know, what their business goals and objectives are so that they can bring their knowledge to the table. Relationships are really key. I mean or you can do so much for the relationships. So, you know, being that collaborative agent I think is really key. In order to solve the hard technology issues, I would say that architecture is absolutely the first and foremost thing CIOs could think about. Is you should have your architecture in place, know what that data with that common data model is going to look like. Figure that out. Know how you're going to operate it. And then, you know, as I said this morning, you can't do it alone. So figure out who your key partners are and then bring them into the fold. With the right architecture and the right partners and the right relationships internally, you're going to overcome those issues. >> An the operating model dashboards that Shannon was mentioning earlier can be a key point but also people could, you know, see too many dashboards and not see the real issues. >> That's right. >> So the dashboard is not the silver bullet per se but it's an instrumentation panel. >> That's right. The dashboard is not a solution. The solution is really the insights that you're providing. And then getting people on board with the insights and then getting alignment across different disciplines that need to action the insights. Now, they may action them in different ways. So finance may action different than marketing, than different than sales. But it's important to have that common definition and really look at how I'm gonna use this in my day-to-day operations. >> John and I thought you were going down a different path. I'll ask a question. You're gonna bring up the new fun toy, which is AI and machine learning. >> Yes. So how are you, you know, it's gonna solve all, you know, peace in the Middle East and hunger in Africa. As you look at, you know, why some of these new technologies? You know, how are you trying to get kind past the hype and really find great places to get great value return on applying AI machine learning. >> Yeah, there is hype for sure but there is a lot of value to when you apply a correctly. And you know, when I look at what I do within my organization, we use the techniques for actually using it in some of our data-driven operating model to look at abnormalities and how data moves through the cycle and point those out because it'd be, you know, in some respects like finding a needle in a haystack. So we're using, you know, some AI techniques there but we're also using it in core IT and how we run IT. So I'm in our operations we've used a lot of automation but automation supplemented by artificial intelligence and machine learning. So if a problem occurs and it can be fixed by human, then it goes into a knowledge base and the next time around that problem occurs it could be fixed programmatically. So, and that has saved us a tremendous amount of time and you know, our return to service statistics have improved considerably. >> One of the exciting things in covering the tech industry for so long and seeing the cloud has done, >> Yeah, >> You have the whole Dev ops movement infrastructures code >> Infrastructure, really key. >> Very good point. It makes the infrastructure programmable versus the old model. I remember back when I was working at HP back in the late 80s, early 90s you were limited by what you could provision and deploy as tech networking, compute and storage and you kinda had to operate that, okay. Now, it's other way around. So what I see when I see the slides up on this keynote today and the architecture slides, I look at it, I'm like, it looks like Amazon to me. But it's marketing provisioning. So it's content developers, it's creative developers, it's the user not programmers. So when you start to get down that road, you (mumbles) about large scale. So the question I have for you is as workloads and use cases become the determinant of the architecture, having that dynamic of versatility and that ability to provision either other services becomes an interesting part of the architecture. That's where I think we're data I see fitting in. Can you just kinda react how you see that world? Because if this continues to happen, the terms being dictated down will be coming from the use cases and the workloads. >> They will be coming from the use cases and the workloads. And it's interesting that you mentioned your days at HP because I just actually gave a little talk about operational excellence. And the analogy that I used is people used to come to me and say, I want a server, right? Or I need additional space. And I would say, no, you're not efficient. Go back and clean up the stuff. And you know, then maybe I'll give you additional capacity. Well now that infrastructure is absolutely in the code, it sitting in the hands of the developer, it's in the hands of the engineer. And they need to understand how the decisions that they make, you know, impact, you know, performance, impact costs, impact a lot of different things. Impact data, right? So, it's a whole different world. And I think that part of it is really education and awareness, working with the engineering teams so that they understand that, you know, having your ops embedded in your code is a lot of responsibility, a lot of responsibility. And we need to understand how we're making decisions and how they affect, not only what I'm doing here in my piece of code, but actually the whole into end, right? The whole into end flow. It certainly changes your role because now you're not saying no, you're saying yes but you're not even saying yes. You just saying do it. >> That's right. So we, I think our roles changed to, yeah, we're not saying yes or no, we're saying you can go do it. >> With policy. >> Yeah. With policy and then also with, you know, the right level of information so that they can, you know, the right standards, the right architecture so that you can use the standards and architecture to make the right decisions in the code. >> My final question before we break for the day, you interviewed on stage Atticus decent from intuit and you were asking some questions. I could see you wanting to answer them yourself. I'm gonna ask you the questions you asked him since you know the questions coming. >> Oh Wow. >> Acceleration, transformation doesn't happen in the silo. I think it was your comment. >> Yeah. >> The specific questions are how do you build a team to accelerate? How do you increase the velocity of change and how does it impact culture? >> Yeah. So that's yeah, that was one of my favorite questions actually to talk to Atticus about 'cause he's done a tremendous amount of work within Intuit to kinda revamp. And actually, you know, within Adobe and other places, you know, I've gone through a culture change with my team and it's really getting them to take the customer view. One of the things we've done within Adobe is we've said we wanted to have cloud-like characteristics in our DNA. And people kinda looked at me and said, you know, what does that really mean? Cloud-like characteristics, is it a set of cloud. It was easy to use. It's extensible. And the way that I describe it to them is we really want to take IT out of the equation. So when you build, think about self service, think about APIs, think about the right architecture and then also, you know, organize around not a project because projects has start and finishes and then, you know, things never get taken care of but organize around the concept of products and life cycles. And that's what we're doing. So, and that's a lot of fun. >> And now with the Adobe platform, you can stand up solutions, >> That's right. >> very quickly. Sounds like cloud. It's easy to use. >> It is cloud and it is easy to use. >> Easy to buy, you can buy it all at once. You can buy a Juco. >> You can. >> This is the new business model. >> That's right. That's right. >> Thank you for coming on the cube and sharing. >> Thank you so much. Always my pleasure. >> Great insights, great data on the queue. Thanks for sharing the data. >> Thank you. Bringing all the dated insights here at Adobe Summit 2019 I'm John and Jeff Frick. Thanks for watching. Day Two is tomorrow. (gentle music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas It's The Cube covering Adobe Summit 2019 brought to you by Adobe. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to The Cube's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Our next guest is Jason Woosley, Vice President of Commerce Product and Platform for Adobe, part of the big keynote display this morning and news on the announcement of the Commerce Cloud, formerly Magento. Congratulations. Welcome to The Cube. >> Hey, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. >> Love the commerce angle because now that's a big part of a journey, people buy stuff. >> Absolutely. >> That's the most important, one of the most important parts. >> So when you think about an experience end to end, right it culminates hopefully in a transaction, and that's one of the pieces that makes the Magento acquisition fit so well into the Adobe family. We actually kind of finished that last mile of the transition getting to actual ownership. >> You know, I love this event because it feels a little like Woodstock, as Steve Lucas said on stage because you've got the best of big data all the intoxicating conversations and discussions. You get the best of the cloud, all the geek stuff under the hood. >> Oh, yeah. >> Then you've got the applications which are super relevant. So, it's really kind of, I love the content, love that you guys are in the middle of, I think, a great wave of innovation coming. But if you look at the big picture, you're seeing the same kind of themes, latency, relevance. I mean, these are tech terms used on your product in commerce a lot different than other things. So, you start to see these geek terms kind of weaving into this new cloud. >> I think you're really starting to see a convergence of some of the terminology and what really matters and that's the customer experience, right. It's really about answering what the customer wants and getting that is, that's the magic. >> It's accepting the fact that it's a disjointed journey. I love the journey conversation but it's not the straight pipe like it used to be. You're in and out, you're looking on a website, you're jumping over from a tweet, you know, there's so many kind of in's and out's, in's and out's, in's and outs before you get to that buy. >> And consumers are so sophisticated now, right. I mean they absolutely take advantage of all of those channels and that's why it's so important for merchants who are trying to be relevant. You've got to be present at every point where your customers are and it's a tough thing to do because there's just a proliferation of channels, I mean, you know, we've got digital kiosks, we've got buy online pick up in store, all these omnichannels operations coming together now. So it becomes even more important for merchants to make that investment and make sure that not only are they at the place where their customers are but they're there with a relevant and personalized message. >> Jason, I've got to ask you a question. I bring this up in a lot of these kind of user experience conversations. When you have new things coming on the market that are hard to operationalize out of the gate. It takes some time. We're starting to see that with you guys that built the platform. People are starting to operationalize new capabilities. But on the consumer side, the user side, expectations become the new experience. It's kind of a cliche in the tech world. What are some of those experiences that you're seeing that's becoming the new expectations. To your point about, the old way, I can smell a marketing funnel a mile away. I'm trying to buy something and all this other distractions that are not relevant to me are there. So you start to see some frustration but now users expect something new. What is that expectation that's converting it to experience? >> It's across the board and expectation are sky high, right. And it seems like every time we see something innovative you think about Amazon Prime, right, two day shipping. That was crazy back in the day and now, two day shipping is considered standard shipping, right. If you wanna be fast, you're doing same day. And that kind of, it's so hard to keep up with that pace of innovation and it happens all over the place. It's not just in logistics. People are expecting to be able to take advantage of omnichannel operations, right. Millennials especially. 60% of them really prefer to be able to have a tangible interaction with the product before they buy it. But they still want to buy online. So now they do buy online pick up in store or click and collect, they call it in Europe. And it's just become a huge fad. We've seen a 250% increase of the largest retailers of buy online pick up in store in the last year. Absolutely crazy. >> It's pretty wild when Best Buy gets on stage and says, we're not a brick and mortar retailer. (laughing) >> It actually changes the game, right. What else is interesting though is these brick and mortars that have an online presence, they actually have a distinct advantage because of that tangibility, right. You've got the opportunity to do all of your shopping online but you've also got a place to go do showcasing and actually interact with some of those especially more high tech tools. >> Right. >> You guys have been out front on the Magento side. We covered your event last year for the acquisition. And a couple things popped out at me that I want to get your reaction to now. One is obviously the role of the community. But as you started getting into the cloud kind of play the economics are changing, too, right. So you have community, economics and then large scale. These are new table stakes. So what's your reaction to that? How is Adobe and how are your customers adjusting to this new normal? Your thoughts on this shift? >> Yeah, I think that they adjust faster than we expect them to. It's really interesting because as you see these demands for things like cloud operations. Really, that's taking a whole set of responsibilities away from the merchant and allowing a single vendor to provide that as a service and we're seeing that again and again, right. This service based economy that's just becoming much, much more prevalent. What it means for our community and I'm glad you brought that up because our commerce community is the largest in the world, it's highly engaged. We have a tremendous amount of participation from those guys. And they're actually helping lead the way. They help merchants feel good about adopting new technologies. They're also incredibly innovative and they take our product and do things that we would never have thought of. >> They provide product feedback, too, the developers, that creates a nice fly wheel. >> It is a great fly wheel. >> It's a great use case. Congratulations, you guys done some nice work there. >> Oh, thanks, thanks. >> And Adobe's certainly gonna get the benefits of that. The other question I wanna ask you is something I noticed on digital over the years is that, it's gotten more prevalent now that everyone's connected. You know, the old days of buying tech. Let's buy this great project, we'll build it out and multiple year payback and everyone nerds out. It's like a project and they have fun doing it. And then, like, what was the value. When the value today is about money. When people lose money, the friction, all those other kinds of coolness, the shiny new toy, it goes away. >> Yeah, it falls away. >> You're in the middle of that. You see more of that now. People whose businesses are on the line. Security breach or revenue. >> Jason: Yeah. >> I mean, the optimization around the new way just goes right to the problem right there. >> The very best way to tackle that is an iterative experimental way. You've go to be able to make small bets. Learn from those bets and then pivot. This concept that we can take an idea, go into our back rooms and code it for three years and come back out with something that meets the market, it's a fallacy. It's never gonna work, right? So you've gotta start delivering shippable increments much faster, smaller pieces and then make sure that you've got that feedback loop closed so that you can actually respond to your customers. >> Jeff: Right, the other piece which you just talked on briefly but I wanna unpack it in reference to what you just said, two big words. Open source and ecosystem. >> Jason: Yeah. >> And as you said, you can't just go in the back room. Even if you knew the product, you can't necessarily go in the back room and build it yourself. >> Jason: Yeah. >> Fundamentally, believe that not all the experts are in your four walls and that there's, by rule, a lot more outside and leveraging that capability is really a game-changer. >> Yeah, absolutely, I mean, we have three hundred thousand developers that call themselves Magento engineers and don't take a paycheck from Adobe. It's phenomenal what they're able to do and they help us move very, very quickly. We saw last year when the Amazon patent expired for one-click checkout on the day that it expired one of our community members created a pool request that made every Magento store able to take advantage of it. >> John: They were probably waiting right there on that clock. >> Oh no, they were waiting. (John laughing) Because the licensing fees were extortion. >> That's innovation. >> It is. >> That's our example of community driven innovation. >> And that's a great place to go get that, right. Within your four walls, you've got lots of expertise but you always end up with some blinders on. We've got profit margins to go chase. We've got all kinds of good business things to go do. The community, however, completely unfettered. They've got the ability to go try all kinds of cool stuff. >> Two questions on that thread. One is community. A lot of people try the buzzword. Hey, let's get a community. You can't buy a community. You've got to earn it. Talk about that dynamic and then talk about how Adobe's reacted to Magento's community because Adobe's pretty open. >> Yeah. >> They're creatives. I don't think they'd be anti-community. They have developers. They got a bunch of community themselves. So, community, buying a community versus earning it, and then the impact of Magento's community to Adobe. >> You cannot buy it. 100% you cannot buy a community. And you have to deserve it. And really, you have to think about yourselves as custodians of a community rather than, I mean, we're members. We used to have this saying, we are Magento. Everybody inside Magento, in the ecosystem, our partners, our developers. Everybody is part of that solution so trying to own it, trying to exert control over it, it's a recipe for not having it at all, right. So you have to be very cautious and it really is a custodianship. It's an honor and it's a privilege and you have to kind of take it seriously. >> If you get it right, the benefits are multi-fold. >> That's exactly it. >> Now, Adobe, obviously they have, we heard and we see that they're open to that and working with it. >> Adobe has been terrific and it was, I think, one of the biggest fears from our community as acquisition unfolded was hey, Adobe, big corporate company not a lot of open source projects. They've got some but their core isn't about open source and what was gonna happen to our community as we came in. It's been absolutely terrific because Adobe has been absolutely investing and making sure that we continue to be terrific custodians of this community and in fact, they're trying now to expand that community to the rest of their products. They would love to have our community members that are able to go out and innovate so rapidly, do so across the entire Adobe portfolio. >> Well, it's interesting, too. If you have a platform play in the cloud scale and some of these cross functional connection tissue points that's recipe for robust ecosystem development. >> Exactly. >> Because they means there's white space, there's opportunities to build on top of. That's a platform. >> Right, and you will see innovation and ingenuity from that you'll never expect. It's just phenomenal. >> So I'm curious to get your take on a specific feature I wanna dive into which is dynamic pricing. Right, hotels have been doing dynamic pricing forever. You give the authorization to the kid working at the front counter if it's 11 o'clock, you got a open room take whatever walks in the door. >> Jason: Yeah. >> To the airline, it's got very sophisticated but most companies haven't really be able to excuse dynamic pricing. Just curious, when you bring in capabilities that you get now with the Adobe suite and the data now that you have around the customer and the data that you now have around the context, I mean, are we gonna see much better execution of things like dynamic pricing. >> We're gonna see democratization of a lot of those things that were typically reserved to the very, very big industries, right. I think you're looking at airlines, they did a great job. But they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into systems to go do that. Now, with things like Sensei and artificial intelligence our machine learning capabilities, we can actually bring those capabilities to small merchants and everyday folks to go out and do those experiments with your pricing and understand where you have elasticity and where you don't. Once you have that information, you're making much better decisions across the board for your business. >> And that's actually the benefits of the Magento platform and scale that you have. So the question is, as you guys continue to get this cloud scale going, what are some of the platforms priorities for you guys? What product areas you looking at? What white spaces are gonna leap for the ecosystem? Can you share a little insight into what you guys are thinking? >> Yeah, I mean, one, we try to open everything to the ecosystem. There's really not a lot of advantage for us to have anything that's super closed off and secret sauce. We try to make sure that everything is available and so what you'll see is investments in things like SDK's. An SDK is software development kit basically lets you use any language, any tool that you're comfortable with to go ahead and integrate, extend and contribute to our core capabilities. You'll see us continue to invest in making sure that everybody that wants to participate has a very, very easy path to do so. >> And in terms of the developer program, you mention SDK, what's your impression of that? Can you give an update? We're not really familiar with that much, we're learning Adobe. What do you guys have for developer programs within Adobe? >> Well, it is terrific. We have a project called Adobe I/O that actually does a terrific job at sort of standardizing the API and interfaces between all of the different components within the digital experience suite. So, you'll continue to see us investing in that. Certainly, commerce is gonna start participating in that Adobe I/O model and that's going to make it even more broadly available to these great folks. >> Even one of the things we had on The Cube today was a historic moment. We been doing this for 10 years, hundreds of shows a year. We had our first guest on, one of your customers from Metlite. His title was Marketing CIO and I'm like, okay. He's part of the global technology operations team of Metlite. But I think the bigger story there is that we think we'll be a bigger trend than just one-off. We think, we're seeing the connection between the IT world, data, developers, applications coming together where marketing is like a CIO. >> And it's exactly right. We look at the CMO and the CIO as two sides of the same coin. And more often than not they have the same objectives. They're coming at it from a slightly different perspective and so you really do end up having to marry the message so that it resonates not only with the IT folks and usually that's about cloud processes, ease of use, ease of deployment, low cost operation and then on the marketing side it's really about feature availability and visual merchandising and being able to bring their great products to life. >> And an interesting quote, he said, what's it like, to be a marketing CIO, share to others who might to be that. He goes, well, I'm kind of a matchmaker and a translator. (laughing) >> I think that's pretty good a way to put it. Yeah, that makes good sense. >> He puts projects together, translating jargon to business benefits. Emphasis was on the business. You got to know the business. We had Dollar Shape Club on earlier, another one of your Adobe's customers. They were like, no, we need to know the business. It's about the data, data processing, the data systems, business. It has to be blended. It's the art and science of business and technology. >> Yeah, the only get that right when you put the customer right in the middle. You have to build all of those business processes and all of those systems around what that customer's looking for. >> So I'm just curious, Jason, what's changed over the last couple of years, 'cos we've been talking about the 360 view of the customer since, I don't when, but a while. >> A while, yeah. >> And we've been talking about omnichannel marketing and touching the customer for a while but it seems like we've hit a tipping point. Maybe I'm misreading the tealeaves but you know, what are the kind of critical factors that are making that much more a reality than just talk it was a couple years back? >> Well, on omnichannel, we're certainly seeing a maturity, an understanding of what it takes to do omnichannel. It's not just a commerce operation. omnichannel actually stretches back into your supply chain. To be able to really think about the way you deliver to customers as a single channel. Your supply chain has to be highly flexible. Your logistic capabilities have to be extremely flexible and they have to be able to tuned for the things that are important to your customers. Either speed of delivery or cost of delivery. All of those kinds of things. In the omnichannel space, I think we're finally starting to see the maturity of, okay, how do we make these things real. And that's critically important. And the other one. >> 360, 360 view of the customer. >> 360 view of the customer. Almost the same thing there, right. We're finally seeing the technology start to catch up and the big challenge there was we always had one view or the other. You either had a behavioral view of your customer, how they interact with your content. Or you had this great transactional view, the dollar and cents behind a relationship. Now, we're starting to see companies especially like Adobe, that have made these incredible investments to bring those two houses of data together, and that really starts to tell the full story. Again, going back to that customer journey, you need to be able to observe that entire journey in order to make those kinds of decisions. >> Jason, I wish we had more time. I wanna get one more question. I know we might wanna break here. Maybe we can follow up as a separate conversation in Palo Alto. You know, having a digital footprint you hear that buzzword, I'll get a digital footprint out there. It makes a lot of sense but a world that has been dominated by silos, it's hard to have footprint when you have siloed entities. So, in your mind, your reaction between something that's foundational and then data silos. Maybe silos could be okay at the app level but what's the foundational footprint? I mean, foundation's everything. >> Jason: It is. >> Without a foundation, you clearly can't build on. >> Yeah, and we talked a little bit about the Adobe experience platform this morning. Eric Shantenu and Anje will come on and talk about, we've got this amazing capability now to really take that data, standardize it and make it available for all kinds of systems and processes. And I think that's where you're going to see the real foundation for all of these siloed efforts. It's gonna be in this kind of common data understanding, what they call a XDM. >> And customers got silos, too. They've got agencies. All kinds of things out there. >> Absolutely. >> Data everywhere. Jason, thanks for coming on. We really appreciate it. >> Hey, guys, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. >> Jason Woosley on The Cube here at Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier. Day one of two days of wall-to-wall live coverage. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Welcome back everyone, live CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019 I'm John Furrier. With Jeff Frick. Our next guest is Jeff Allen, Senior Director Product Marketing, Adobe. Jeff, welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you. Nice to be here. >> So day one is kind of winding down, big, great keynote, laid out the platform product's working together, lot of data, lots of data conversations. >> Yeah, exciting day. Excited to have Adobe Analytics in the mix with that, you saw the four clouds we talked about, Analytics Cloud is one of them and really kind of core to everything we do at Adobe, right? In fact, even in the Creative Cloud side, Document Cloud side, our customers have to be able to measure what they're doing and so, data is obviously key to that. >> Tapping the data across the different applications and now clouds - It's interesting - it's a whole new grail, people have been trying to do for how many years? >> Forever, from the beginning. >> And it's always been that holy grail, where is it? Now some visibility is starting to get to see into the benefits of horizontal scale, diverse data, contextual workloads, >> Absolutely, yeah. >> This is a big deal. >> It is a big deal. >> Explain why it's impacting. >> It's funny. Our culture now expects data right? We measure everything. Our kids are taught to measure things, even something as simple as likes on, my kids, they argue about whether the picture mom posted of them or the other one got more likes, right? So we kind of have hardwired our society around measurement, and now of course, marketing has always been a measurement-heavy discipline, and so, it's just absolutely core to what we're doing. >> And we had a historic moment, we've been doing theCUBE, it's our 10th season, a lot of events. >> Congratulations. >> And we had a guest come on here, that we've never had before, the title was Marketing CIO, it was one of your customers at MetLife >> Interesting, yeah. >> But this brings the question of, of the confluence of you know, the factions coming together. IT, creative, marketing, where the tech, measurement, data. >> Yeah, totally. >> Data processing, information systems, kind of an IT concept now being driven and married in with the business side. >> Absolutely. >> This is really the fundamental thing. >> I started my career marketing to CIOs, in fact, I've spent most of my career marketing to the CIO organization, right, and about 7 years ago, I came over to Adobe to market to marketing, right? And I used to say, "You know I kind of like marketing to this guy, I understand him better," right? Because I know how marketers think a lot better than CIOs, I had to go learn how they thought. But it's amazing how the tech explosion has happened in MarTech and AdTech, all of these vendors here at this event, this is just a piece of our industry, right? There's thousands of companies serving marketing organizations, and so, all of a sudden, the tech stack looks more crazy than even what many CIOs manage, and so it doesn't surprise me at all that organizations, you're talking to organizations that have a CIO/CMO hybrid role. >> Jeff, I'm curious how the landscape is changing, because all the talk here is about experiences, right? And the transaction is part of the experience, but it's not the end game, in fact, it's just a marker on a journey that hopefully lasts a long time. How does that change kind of the way that you look at data, the way customers are looking at data, you know, how the KPIs are changing, and what they're measuring, and the value of the different buckets of data as it's no longer about getting to that transaction, boom, ship the product, and we're done. >> Yeah, so I look after Adobe Analytics, and Adobe Analytics was the first component we acquired in this business, right? Experience Cloud, started with the acquisition of a company called Omniture back in 2009, was an analytics company, primarily web and mobile app analytics, and it has grown since then, to measure many more things. And we've seen our category with analytics that we've addressed move from web analytics to a broader view of digital analytics, right? The digital parts of marketing to all of marketing, the rest of marketing said, "Hey, we need measurements too. We need tools." And then it clicked out another broader click to this idea of experience, right? Because everybody has a stake in experience, and experience is all wrapped around people and how people move through experiences with your brand, so that's where we sit today, is really helping organizations measure experiences, and that spans every person in the organization. >> Talk about the dynamic between how the old way of thinking was shifting to this new way, and specifically, the old way was "I'm a database guy. I've got operational databases and analytical databases," you know, and that was it. You know, relational, unstructured, you know, kind of quadrants. Now, it's kind of, you have (laughs) it's not about databases, it's about data. So you have operational data, which is the analytical data now >> Yeah. >> So you have now, this new dynamic, it's not about the databases anymore >> Absolutely. >> It's about the data itself. >> It's not about, I would say, it's not about the stores of data, right? It's about really getting the insights out of the data, and you know, for the longest time, in my career, uh, you went to CIO, the CIO organization and there was a BI team there, and you would ask them for data, and they could go to the main frame, they could go to these big IT systems, and you know, in 30 days, they could email you back a .csv file, or even before that meeting, give you a .zip file or something with the .csv file on it. And then you got to go see if you could even get it to open on your laptop and get it into Excel and start to manipulate it. And those days don't work. >> And then you go get your root canal right after. It's a painful process. >> What if the data - today that data is trying to understand, "Hey I got a guy that just checked into the hotel. He's standing in front of me, I need to know if he had a bad experience the last time he checked in with us, so I know if I need to give him an upgrade. And you can't go down to I.T. real quick and ask them to take 30 days to get that data and then crunch the data all to find out. Customers need to know, and in the experience business, immediately this person just walked into the hotel and we need to give them a good experience, we blew it last time for them. That's what the experience business wants out of data. >> One of the questions we had with Anjul, who runs engineering on the platform side, was around the rise of prominence of streaming data, how is that impacting the analytics piece, because, you know, if you want the flow, this is a key part of probably your side of the business. Can you comment, what's your reaction to that - streaming trend? >> We've been talking about streaming for a while. CIO, this isn't a new thing, we were streaming applications, right, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, but really in the story I just shared, right? The idea of going down and waiting in this asynchronous process with data, the experience business can't handle that, so streaming data is really implying that, as it's coming in, we're processing it, and learning from it, and getting that out into the systems and the people that can take action, instantaneously. >> Talk about the dynamic that customers have around, traditional silos within their organization, you know, that guy runs the database and data for that department, that person runs the data over there, and if this vision is to be, is to be, is to come true, you have to address all the data, you got to know what's out there you got to have data about the data, you got to know in real time, and these are important concepts. How does a company get through that struggle, to break down those kind of existing organizational structures? >> It's a cultural shift, I mean, who has a desktop publishing team anymore in their organization, right? Everyone does desktop publishing, that is how data is too. Everyone's got to be comfortable with data, they have to be conversing around data, and everyone needs access to data. So, that's, you know, that's what is happening in our industry, the analytics industry, is that we're democratizing that data, and getting it everybody's hands, but it's not enough to give them charts and graphs, they have to be able to manipulate that and make it apply to their part of the business, so they can make a decision, and go, and so, that shift in how people think about data, as it's not part of your - it's part of everyone's job, as opposed to being a specialized, siloed job. >> I'm just curious to get your take, a lot of conversations here about you know, Adobe, using their own products, eating your own dog food, drinking your own champagne, whatever analogy (laughs) you like to use. And when you see the DDOM, right, the Data-Driven Operating Model, on the screen, in the keynote, with the CEO, and he says, "Basically everyone at this company is running their business off of these dashboards, that's got to be pretty, pretty, uh, profound for a guy like you who is helping feed those things. >> It's cool. I like to talk about what I call the modern measurement team. The modern measurement team is no longer that centralized data team, right, or that centralized BI team, but every single function, right, under CIO. Every one of the CEO's directs, has their own data team. You go look around and you see that in every single function, there is a sophisticated data team. They have the best tools in the industry, they have the smartest people they can find, they have PhDs on staff, and that's not enough. So, these teams now have to get that out to every constituent in their organization. And that's what we're trying to do at Adobe, that's what we're seeing our best customers do as well, is trying to inform every decision anybody makes. >> And that's where machine learning really shines. You get high quality data on the front end, with the semantic data pipeline capability, get that into the machine learning, help advance, automate, that seems to be the trend. >> Yeah. Yeah, look the insights that you can get from the data, the ability to predict with rich data, it sounds - prediction sounds like - invention used to sound like this novel thing, right, and then you realize, we're inventing things all the time, that's not so - that's just creativity. Well, the same thing is happening with AI and ML, is we're able to predict things with good statistical modeling, with pretty strong, uh, reliability around those models. >> The keynote had great content, I liked how you guys did a lot things really well, you had the architectural slides, platform was a home run, how you guys evolved as a business, see you laid that out nicely, but one of the things I liked, not that obvious, unless you go to a lot of events like we do, everyone says "The journey of the customer", I mean, it's a, it's become a cliche, you guys actually mapped specific things to the journey piece that fit directly into the Adobe set of products and technologies, and the platform. It's interesting, so the word journey has become, actually something you can look at, see some product, see some - a pathway to get some value. >> There's definitely a risk if the word journey, becomes like "Big Data" and all these cliche terms, you know, that means everything, so it comes to mean nothing. But for us, journey, and as marketers especially, journey is just naturally understanding where did I interact with this person, and what did that lead to along the way, right? And so, customer journey, is absolutely core to data analytics. >> All the hype markets, cloud washing, until Amazon shows them how it's done, everyone else kind of follows, you guys are doing it here with journey, one of the things that came out was a journey IQ. I didn't really catch that. Can you take a minute to explain? >> So we have a couple of things. We have something called Segment IQ, Attribution IQ, and now we have even introduced Journey IQ. And when you see that IQ moniker on one of our, kind of our super umbrella features - that means that we're applying AI and ML, right, and Sensei is involved. So we're using powerful data techniques, and we're also wrapping it with a really simple user experience. So Journey IQ starts to break down the customer journey in terms that a normal person, without a PhD, without knowing statistical methods, or advanced mathematics, can leverage those techniques to get really powerful insights. And that's specifically around the customer journey. >> So the IQ is a marker that you guys use to indicate some extra intelligence coming out of the Adobe, from the platform. >> Yeah, yeah, if we're going to democratize data, right, we have to democratize data science as well, right? And so, a big part of what we're doing at Adobe Analytics is really simplifying the user experience, right? So I don't say, Do you want to run a regression model against this to answer your question? We just say Click this button to analyze. Right? So it's a simple user experience, behind the scenes, we can run these powerful models for the customer, and give them back valuable insights. So, Journey IQ is specifically taking things like cohorts, and introducing cohort analysis into the experience, making it simple to do powerful things with cohorts. >> What's the pitch to a customer when you go to one and talk about all this complicated tech and kind of new, operationalized business models around the way you guys are rolling it out, when they just want to ask you, "Hey Jeff, I care about customer experiences." So, bottom line me. What's the pitch? >> How can you possibly address your customer's needs if you don't know what they think. Right? What they need? So, at the end of the day, the great thing about working with customers, like most businesses do, is customers are happy to tell you where you're getting it right, and where you're getting it wrong, right? And that's all over the data. So all you have to do is develop a culture of using data to make decisions, and 9 times out of 10, if you have the right data, and people are using the data to make decisions, they are going to make the right calls and get it right for your customer. And when they don't, they're using opinions and they're going to get it wrong all the time. >> Or, bad data, could be hearsay. >> Or you course correct, or that wasn't - you know, make an adjustment. Right? Again, based on the data. >> Exactly, yeah. >> You're in product marketing, which is a unique position, because you have to look back into the engineering organization, and look out to the customers, so you're, you're in a unique position. What's the customer trend look like right now? What are some of the things you're hearing from the market basket of customers that you talk to? Generally, their orientation towards data? Where are they on the progress bar? What is the state of the market on the landscape of the customer, what patterns are you seeing? >> Good question. So there's a lot of - there's a lot of, um, anxiety around where do I have pockets of data that I'm not able to leverage, and how do I bring that together, so when we tell a platform story, like you heard us tell today, customers are really excited about that, because they know, they've known forever. I mean, this isn't a new problem, like, data silos have been around as long as data has. So, the idea of being able to bring this data into a central place, and do powerful things with it, that's a big point of stress for our customers. And they know, like, "Hey, I have dark spots in my customer experience, that I lose the customer." For example, if I'm heavily oriented around digital, let's say, um, I'm a retailer, and I see a customer, I acquire them through advertising channels, they come through an experience on my website, and they buy the product. Success. I ship the product to them, and then they return it in the retail store. The digital team might not see that return. >> So they might think it was successful. >> They think it was successful. So what do they do? They go take more money and spend it in the ad channel, where that person originated. When in reality, if they could look at the data over time, and incorporate this other channel data, of in-store returns, the picture might look very different. >> So basically, basically. >> It's those dark spots that customers are really needing. >> So getting access to more diverse data, gives you better visibility into what's happening contextually, to open up those blind spots. >> Exactly. Yup. It's just that, adding resolution to a photo. >> Love this conversation, obviously we're data-driven as well on theCUBE, we're sharing the data out there. This interview is data as well. >> Fantastic. >> Jeff, final question for you - for the folks that couldn't make it here, what's the - how would you summarize the show this year, what's the vibe, what's the top story here, what's the big story that needs to be told from Adobe Summit? >> We're just a day in, there a lot, there's a lot to do still, right? We still have two more solid days of this show. But you know, the big themes are going to be around data, they are going to be optimizing the experience for your customers, and what's really amazing is how many customers are here, telling their stories. That's the thing, I wish everybody in your audience could experience by coming here, because there is 300 breakout sessions that feature our customers talking. All of our sessions on main stage, we bring customers out, and we learn from them. That's the best part of my job, is seeing how customers do that. >> Some of the best marketing, you let the customers do the talking, and they're doing innovative things. They're not just your standard, typical, testimonials, they're actually doing - I mean, Best Buy, what a great example that was. >> Cool brand - we work with some of the coolest brands in the world, so, fascinating, brilliant people. >> Marketing, at scale, with data. Good job, Jeff, thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Jeff Allen, here inside theCUBE with Adobe. I'm John Furrier with Jeff Frick. Stay with us for more Day 1 coverage after this short break. Stay with us.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Adobe. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage, here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick my co-host this week. Michael Yung is the CIO of Asia Miles. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Great to be here. >> So take a minute before we get into the conversation about machine learning, and all the cool tech. What does Asia Miles do, what's your role there, and stuff they do? >> Asia Miles is the loyalty reward program of the Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific Airways. So, typical airline, but we have the reward program to support our members of Cathay pacific airways. We have over, about 11 million members, and over 700 partners around the world. >> How many members? >> 11 million. >> 11 million? >> Wow. >> That seems like a lot to me. (laughs) >> We are the leading loyalty program in the region, in Asia. In fact we started the program about 20 years ago, so in 1999, so this is our 20th anniversary. >> Wow, congratulations. >> So, similar to any Loyalty program, our members can earn miles by flying, traveling, dining, shopping. Even have your mortgage with our banking partners. At the same time, using the miles, you can redeem rewards. Hotel stays, flight tickets, and even for tablet computers or mobile phones. So you can do all of this. >> So, you did the web 1.0, web 2.0, web 3.0. (laughs) You've lived the journey. >> Paper 1.0. >> So my job is actually leading the digital part of the team. As you know, like loyalty program, you don't have protection lines, you don't have branches, everything is digital. So our web, our mobiles, our engines to support the earnings, and engines to support the reductions are all digital. So basically, we are more like a digital marketing company, we links the partners, their products, their offers, to our members. >> So, important is obviously the data, it's super important. And having connections points, APIs, open systems. Is it open APIs? >> Yes, all of these are technologies in our stack. So, basically our membership profiles are databases. And then with APIs we can do all sorts of modeling, or calculation, or segmentation. And then we push through our marketing offers, or campaigns, to our targeted members. >> That sounds like good architecture. Now what, specifically of Adobe product stack, are you using, for Adobe? >> We used almost the whole suite of Adobe products. We started our baby step about three years ago with Adobe Experience Manager. Basically our contact management systems are website or mobile. And then we extended to campaign to automate our marketing campaigns. And then later on audience manager, target and analytics. So it has evolved. So basically a full stack. >> So you're a big customer of all the products. So one of the big things they're talking about is the data, role of data, and machine learning's coming up a lot. How are you applying machine learning, with all those millions of members, and all the different diverse contact you have, and the different connection points to partners. You have to, kind of have this free flowing operating environment, platform yourself. So how are you using machine learning to either automate away things that you're doing manually, or creating new innovation insights. >> As I mentioned, we have to match the offers from our 700 partners to 11 million members, right. And therefore we build certain technologies, like propensity modeling, that we can tell, say from you miles balance, your life stages, your persona, and your lifetime varial, and then we do, what we call the partner recommendation engine. So the recommendation engine will push certain offers to John, or to Jeff already, based on all your profiles. And that requires some machine learning and modeling as well, from our data scientists. >> I'm curious how the expectation has changed over time in terms of, kind of what your members expect to get out of the application. Because I assume they want more, and more, and more, what was special today is common tomorrow. And how you've been able to continue to adapt and change what you often experience. >> Right, great question. First of all, our members really like to go mobile, so our offers have to be location based. So with your mobile apps, then you can see, okay what are the popular restaurants around me, that I can earn miles easily. Or, if it's a Monday, then you can earn, say double miles if you buy something with retails partners as well. So all this, the partners, and the members expect more. And, secondly, members are smart enough to tell that, oh, your offers is generated by a machine. It's not personalized enough. For example, if I just fly to San Francisco last week, why'd you promote San Francisco flight ticket to me? Or hotel again? >> Right. >> I'm not going to San Francisco again. >> The re-targeting thing is brutal. >> Brutal, yeah. So you have to really base it on the transaction history, and the other features or signals, and then define the next offer. And this is really important. >> And do you help the customers figure, because you just said if you eat out on a Monday, maybe you get double miles because the restaurants are slow. Is that something that you guys have discovered in your analytics, that you're helping your partners to get more pull on their offers, or is that being driven from them? Because you have a lot, you've got a lot more data than an individual restaurant, or some of your other partners. >> But I mean, even in Hong Kong, Monday's a slow day for business. >> Right, right, right, right. >> So it's good to help out the partners a bit, you earn double miles. Or on certain important days, or holidays, you get triple miles by buying something. So it's natural for our partner's, and our member's expectations. >> You have an economy. (laughs) It's like, you've got to have a fiscal policy. >> Well let me tell you all loyalty programs pretty run like this. >> It's really highly data driven, you have reputation, you have influence. >> Exactly. >> It's very important, I'd almost imagine, contextual understanding about what's happening, and having the right data. You mentioned that re-target thing, about San Francisco. I see this all the time on re-target, they don't have the context. I mean that really makes for a really poor personalized experience. Talk about context, having data in context to something. How hard is that? >> Well it's really from data, turned into information, and then actionable insight, it's really hard. So, even we have so many team members doing all this modeling, there are times that we need powerful tools to do proper segmentation and targeting. And that tool's got to be really flexible, and fast responsive to certain context. And with that Adobe products help us a lot. >> What's the biggest to do for you, going next step as you continue to grow. You're digital, all digital. You have Adobe Suite, cloud computing scale, a lot of data context, a lot of usable data. What's next for your business, what's next for you. >> Well, last year we started to test the water to try out blockchain technology. So we have the marketing campaign rules, and packed that in a blockchain smart contract. And this is one of the things that we invested a lot of time and resources into it. We believe in the future marketing campaign has got to be more real time, and you can earn your bonus miles straight away, instead of waiting two, three months until the end of the campaign. So hopefully with the marketing platform, and also newer technology, and better data, we can do better campaigns. >> In terms of skills to deal with the kind of things that you're doing, with future proofing your business with blockchain, love that. Smart contracts going on, peer to peer, immutable, love that value proposition. You get reputation, move that over into currency. >> One of the options. >> Asia coin. (laughs) >> Optimize is one of the options. >> What else is on your mind? KPIs, how do you look at data sets, how do you guys view? >> Measure success. >> How do you measure success? >> Well, I would say first of all, all the stakeholders have got to be happy with the program. I mean, the stakeholders include our members, partners, our shareholders, and our employees. They're important to make sure that the program is successful. And also including the engagement ratio, and our package ratio, where there are a lot of members that usually don't have chances to redeem things, and then they let the miles expire, for example. So helping them maintain a healthy package ratio is also a KPI that we measure carefully. And then, other than that I think all our employees or staff, they let you know, or they need to understand how technology and business mix together. If you're good in business, but not knowing marketing technology, for example. Or if you only understand technology but not the business, for example, it's just not good enough for the future. So the skillset why you have to understand both. >> How are you using technology, especially Adobe, how is Adobe helping you, and then what other things you might be doing, to help internal processes get better? Because one of the things I'm seeing here at this show is, with the platform, as you start to thread the data together and let the data, kind of naturally flow, with machine learning and the different data points, you can start to get some visibility to insights that might not be there. So that's going to cause some internal disruption. People might lose there job, or new jobs emerge, there's always conflict when you're progressing. How do you use technology, and this technology, to keep getting higher functionality, better economics, what's the internal struggles, and gains look like? >> Well, for example, before the days of marketing platform, or Adobe days, you may need to take weeks to prepare a campaign, if not months. Because you need to prepare all the contents, all the lead assignments, and then you push out through all the different channels. But now you can be always on campaign, different dates. And, for the blockchain example, we can actually eliminate the reconciliation and settlement effort. So the back office operation team, they can move along to do something else. To do more campaigns, or to talk to the partners more, to understand their needs. Instead of just number crunching, we do reconciliation. So I think, it's not about with less resources, but with the same resources, how to do more things. >> Right. >> And it's almost continuous improvement on the campaign. >> Yes, continuous, all the time. >> Versus just, you know, let's plan a campaign, run a campaign, measure the campaign. It's just constantly going. >> Prepare, run it, and then measure. Just never ending. >> As an Adobe customer do you like the direction that they're going? >> Yes, yes. All exciting products are in the road map. And we are ready to explore more in the future. >> Michael, thank you for coming on and visiting us. >> Okay, my pleasure. >> We appreciate it. Here inside theCUBE we're taking all the action, here at Adobe summit. Getting the data, sharing it with you out in the open internet. Thanks for watching, I'm John, with Jeff Frick. Stay with us for more coverage from day one after this short break. (upbeat music)