>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Adobe Summit 2019. Brought to you by Accenture Interactive. >> Welcome back everyone to our live coverage, CUBE coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe Summit 2019. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Jeff Frick, our next guest Mishel Justesen, Group Manager, Dynamics 365 and Marketing Technology at Avanade. Welcome to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> So we were just talking before you came on camera that you're in charge of Global Marketing Practice for Avanade. >> Yeah, so I'm what you called a Global Marketing COP Lead at Avanade and so basically what that means is I'm in charge of our marketing technology community, our marketing technology community at Avanade. >> A lot of relationships forming in the industry, a lot of discussions around open data, open APIs. How has the landscape shifted in the marketing technology realm over the past three years? Because you're seeing a lot of cloud computing like vibe going on, you're seeing agility, real time, AI themes kind of creeping into content development marketing. >> Yes, yes. >> It's changed a lot, how do you see it? >> It has changed a lot and I've been in the marketing technology industry before Marketing Technologist even existed. So I've seen a lot of change and I think the thing that I'm most excited about is the way I'm looking at things right now is as a Marketing Technologist, you don't have to integrate anything anymore. You can put your data in the cloud and marketers have a specific need for a specific type of data, right? So I don't have to integrate my marketing technology anymore, I can put that data in the cloud, I can enable it with some AI, and then I can send it wherever I need to go. >> So data's been the big flashpoint, in terms of inflection point and changing the direction of the industry, it's how people are handling their data and the thinking around it almost is from an architecture standpoint or use cases. What are the key trends there around the data? What are the big moving parts? >> Well, I mean one of the things that's always a pain point for marketers is all of those data silos that happen from all the different marketing tools that you'll have to use, right? So it's painful, so how do you report on that, what do you do, right? So what I really love is I love seeing how as markers, we can now put data into a single source of truth, along with all the other data that we can use to enable our reporting. For me, as a marketer, I've always wanted to be able to get access to my ERP data so I can really see the ROI on my campaigns and how they're actually doing. And if I can marry that up with the sales data as well and I can pull all that data from one place, I'm a happy camper. >> I got to ask you about being a marketing technologist because also we've been doing theCUBEs, our tenth year, covering thousands of events we've done over the years. First time ever, someone yesterday came on, a guest, and their title was Marketing CIO. >> Wow, that's fabulous. >> And we think that's going to be a big spring but it brings up the conversation of what does IT do, what does systems people do, because the notion of systems and data is not so much just in IT, information technology department problem or opportunity. There's new roles changing and coming together. How do you, what's your take on-- >> I thought you were going to ask me hard questions, this is an easy one, right? (chuckling) >> We'll get to the hard ones later. >> Okay good, so what I've found is really interesting is the transformation of the IT department versus the Marketing IT department, right? So IT has always spoken a certain language, right? But marketing and the marketing lingo, it requires a certain amount of expertise and when you have marketing technology you need to understand the lingo of marketing and what type of data and what kind of strategies to go after. You can't expect an IT department to understand that. So that's why you're seeing a Marketing CIO, because they speak the language of technology, right, Marketing Technologists, marketing technology, and they understand how to implement that technology. So that's where there's a nice shift in that going on, I love to hear this. >> Okay so now the hard question. >> Okay. >> So all the people that are here with Adobe, Adobe's got an ecosystem, you're in it, Accenture Interactive, everyone else, they're out there to try to sell services and products and experiences to the customer, the consumer, or B to B brands. Who's their buyer now? Who actually, who are they selling to? Is the personas the same, who is the person who writes the checks and makes the decision? >> The CMO. >> CMO? >> The Marketing CIO, right? (John laughing) I actually look at that from a different angle, personally. What I am after is actually the marketing team, right? So of course as marketers we understand what the customer journey is, right? And we have to be able to, as marketers, I'm putting myself in that persona of course, right? As marketers we have to make sure that we can get to those potential customers, right? But one thing that I'd like to just bring up, if I may, is that I'm more concerned about how does the marketer get their job done, right? So for me, at Avanade, I'm super excited about how I can help them get their job done better. So there's two markets there now. >> Yeah, yeah, and the roles are changing radically-- >> They totally do. >> You're seeing a lot of new things happening. >> So Mishel, curious to get your take, you've been at this for a while, how things have changed from kind of everything lining up in a funnel type situation to get to the sale, to now the sale is just part of an ongoing relationship-- >> It's a part of an ongoing experience-- >> That people are trying to establish so how does that change kind of the things that marketers need to think about, the KPIs that they need to measure beyond simply correlating a campaign back to the ERP system to see if they got a good ROI on that effort? >> Well, I think what's really exciting about marketing now is that we have a bigger seat at the table, right, at that table for the business. And with the ability to report and really show the value of what we do, we're not just top of the funnel. Traditionally what happens is we can do all the work we do to brings leads into a sales ecosystem and then we're like okay there you go. Sales, do what you need to do, right? We don't have to stop there anymore. We can help with the entire sales process. And once that sales process is done and we have a customer, we can continue to help the business engage with that customer. So we're part of the entire journey. >> Right, and I'm curious too, your take, which I think is driven a lot by mobile where your touch points are shorter but more frequent, right, more diverse but a lot more of them, all different stages of that funnel. Cause they can get a lot of information on their own. So how has that kind of changed from a marketer perspective, how to think about content, how to think about that journey, not just as a simple funnel that drives to a transaction. >> Yeah, our jobs are not easy anymore. Yeah, we really have to be more strategic as marketers. So what's interesting about that is across that entire journey, we have to somehow be able to provide an experience in the moment, right? And the good news is, is that we have lots of marketing technology that can help us do that, right? It requires a lot of data, it requires a lot of engagement, and then being able to ingest that information and react to it as close to real time a we can is, I think it's a huge challenge, but that's what we have to be ready for. >> One of the things we heard from a lot of the practitioners that come on, customers of Adobe, and the ecosystem is getting more diverse data so they can get the blind spots identified, where they think they don't have any visibility and the-- >> The white space? >> In the white space, well they don't have enough, well they don't know what's going on. So what they were mentioning was is that okay funnel's great but they're going into this other journey past non-linear progressions, new-organic or in other channels and they want to try to identify what's going on there. So they need to instrument it, right? >> Yeah. So the challenging is how do I get that silo data that might be somewhere else? Or if it's new data, new first-party data, or third-party data, getting more data exposed into these new progressions is a real challenge. >> It is. And they want to keep iterating on it. So that seems to come up a lot. What's your reaction to that and how does this new kind of, let's say horizontal or horizontally scalable experience users are having? How do you guys view that? >> Well I, again I would love as a marketer to have access to all my data in one place, right? And not just my data, cause we have, marketers have special data, right? I would like to make sure I have all my data in one place. So, adjure, put it in the cloud on my data service, right? Put it there for me so I can then enable it, I can start throwing some AI at it so that I can have AI working for me, right? So I can help-- >> Talk about that dynamic, take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud, because there's benefits to that-- >> Sure. >> You were mentioning earlier in the interview. Why is it important? Just take a minute to explain why it's important to put the data in the cloud. >> Well, because it gets rid of the data silos that you have, right? So if you can put your data in one place and then pull it into the systems, just the amount of data you need you can get to it in bite size pieces, right? So let me just inform the sales team with the information that just they need, right? And for the marketing team, let me give them just the data they care about, right? Cause it's very different. But if we have all of that in the same place then we can pull it in wherever we need it. >> Talk about your business and how you guys are doing in marketing. What's going on in the global landscape? What are some of the big trends that you're seeing? What wave are you riding? What's the big business benefits you guys are going after right now? >> Well right now at Avanade, we're really focused on this Adobe and Microsoft partnership. Right, for me, it's a really exciting time to be a marketer because well, to be a Marketing Technologist, to be at Avanade and helping with this whole new partnership. We now have the power of a whole marketing experience platform, Adobe experience platform, right, and the partnership with Microsoft and we can bring these two platforms together, right so-- >> And LinkedIn too, although technically Microsoft-- >> And LinkedIn, yeah. >> Still part of Microsoft, but you got the Dynamics 365 and LinkedIn which are kind of different groups, right? But still Microsoft. >> Yeah. Yeah and LinkedIn's a great example too. So LinkedIn has two places for marketers and sales to work. So marketers can do the LinkedIn lead gen, right? And then Sales can look at the LinkedIn profiles and the company profiles right on that lead record on Dynamics 365, right? So Marketing and Sales can work together. I can bring the leads in as a marketer and a sales person, and I can look at that lead on LinkedIn. So that's super exciting. >> What content types do you see as working, obviously videos, hot right now. I was just at the RSH Show, Jeff and I were there. We saw, everyone's doing videos from video blogging to full sets. Obviously we're streaming here. Video seems to be a hot format. >> What are, what other-- >> Video has been a hot format forever, I mean YouTube came into existence and all of a sudden you've got citizen videographers, right? And then you can put content out there like crazy. I see that it's still a very relevant platform but I personally would like to see how we can use AI to start targeting content to people who are doing some sort of activity online, it doesn't matter where you're at, to engage them, right? >> I think the machine learning is a big point for the AI. And you mentioned earlier, you don't have to worry about connecting stuff and I think if you look at the experience platform that they announced yesterday, they have all these connectors on the sides of their architecture cause that's where you guys are also connecting in, right, This is where you guys see that automation happening. >> Yes, yes. >> Is that what you meant by auto-integrating? >> Yes, exactly, yeah so as someone that builds marketing technology stacks, right, using Dynamics 365 as the hub of that, one of the biggest pain points back in the day, as in a couple years ago, right, was does this integrate with my CRM? Because that's a pain point, how am I going to integrate? I don't have to worry about that anymore, right? Again, going back to putting data in the cloud, I don't have to integrate technology directly into D365 anymore, right, and that-- >> What's the table stakes in the mar-tech stack, what's changed on the table stakes because it's funny as evolution comes, these new capabilities become table stakes like integration. You can't integrate, you're out. What new things are going on in the marketing technology field that was an exception or a luxury just a few months ago or years ago that are now table stakes for marketers? >> Table stakes in the marketing technology landscape, I think Adobe is really, let me shamelessly plug that cause I'm so excited about it, right, Adobe's really a leader in that. So how do you take an entire marketing technology platform, right, and it's not just, it's email marketing, it's your web space, it's your whatever other tool you have, right in your marketing technology stack. How do you aggregate them together in a way that makes sense for the marketer to use. So I think what you're going to see is things need to be really easy for the marketers to use on their own, right? Sometimes you need developers to do a lot of things, right? These pieces of technology can be really tech heavy in that respect, and I think you're going to see a lot of drag and drop capability, let's enable the marketer, the citizen marketer as I like to call them, to actually build what they need more on the fly. And you're seeing that a lot right now-- >> Well it's funny-- >> Marketo's very similar like that. >> Cause when you said the good news is the marketers have all these tools, I thought you were then going to say and the bad news is the marketers have all these tools. (John laughing) >> That's so true, yeah. >> Cause there's so many of them, right? >> There's such a, I know, influx of possibility, right? >> Right, so to have an integrated platform that pulls a lot of the core pieces together, you don't necessarily have to worry about the laundry list of potential tools that you might-- >> Exactly, exactly. >> That you might leverage. Already pre-integrated, ready to roll, super. Final thoughts on seeing the Satya on stage, that's got to help your enthusiasm for the partnership. >> 100%. (John and Jeff laughing) >> Good. >> I'm super happy to be here and I'm a huge advocate of the partnership so I'm really excited to see this happening. >> I think Adobe's done a great job. We're tough customers to please in terms of the tech but on the cloud side, the way they laid it out. The got all the things we think right, the first party-- >> Yeah, it's brilliant. >> Module, the data pipe lining and semantics was those are two, I think, beautiful architectural pieces. >> I agree. >> I think it's going to be, if they can get this thing automated and getting going, no more integration-- >> Thank you for making my life easier. (all laughing) I know, right? >> We'll see some acceleration on your end, with technologists. >> Yes, yup, I'll help, I'm here. >> Mishel, thank you for sharing the data and insights on theCUBE. >> Of course. >> Thanks. >> Of course. >> Great insights here on theCUBE, Adobe Summit, I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick, stay with us for more Day Two coverage after this short break. (techno music)