live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering Adobe summit 2019 brought to you by Accenture Interactive okay welcome back everyone so cubes live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe summit 2019 I'm John ferry with Jeff Frick our next guest is Jim LaLanne CX orchestration practice lead at Accenture customer experience engine welcome to the cube Thank You Forex for joining us customer experience engine CX e CX a yes that's your product I should we work on what's the importance of that what's the big deal so the big deal is there's a proliferation of technology in the world and and one of the main challenges is everything's silent everybody has a different lens when you talk to the sales folks they have a view of the customer when you talk to marketing day of you nobody ever talks and the problem is when these organizations they think technology is the answer so and one of the things that we're always asked inside of the Accenture interactive is well how do you bring all this stuff together and we kept getting asked the same question over and over and over again and so finally we decided you know what let's do something about it let's make this so that you move the discussion away from technology and how can you accelerate your transformation and use something like CX e to bring that to life Jim you've been a pro in this business know digital back we're gonna you're mister you've seen many ways of the hype and the reality you know the titles of customer success man and your orchestration practice manager you know we're relevant but now more than ever those actually means something look at orchestration that's a big term used in cloud computing around orchestrating workloads customer success that's the theme of the show sure experiences so now more than every we're starting to see some visibility into tech implementations to hard problems that were being tackled by pioneers on the bass now in front and center here how do you summarize that that market right now because do you believe that to be true and what is that visibility what are people looking at right now and then what's behind it well for far too long it was always about the technology providers themselves or the in the cusp who are our customers the organizations that hire Accenture to help them transform but what we've seen is just a complete seismic shift it's all about what is the customer or the consumer one it's not about what we as organizations want it's about what the consumers want so we do very much see that as a trend that's moving and in in order to do that you really need to decouple your systems of engagement from your systems of record and by doing that it allows organizations to experiment so there's new technology coming in everyday probably while we're sitting here at least a hundred others have come to life yeah but it becomes hard because when you're always having that technology come into play how can you plug it into your own ecosystem to let the consumer get done what they want to get done on their terms because that's their expectation they don't really care what your internal problems are they just want to be able to get done what they want to get done and if they can't with you it'll go somewhere else so the practice what you're seeing is the practices have an environment that allows you to try stuff yes without a lot of hurdles and you know integration yeah so the standard thing would be any time an organization wanted to try a new product it could take anywhere from 6 12 18 months just before they could even figure out does it work what we're trying to do with cxe is turn that into a matter of weeks in some cases in a matter of days so by having a platform or a capability set up so as a new application comes in great I already know about the customer information because I'm making that transparent to everything I can plug it in I can experiment I spend a month I measured does this actually work if it doesn't great get it out let me try the next thing so it gives that flexibility to organizations which marketers love because the last thing you want to do is tell us CMO is like that idea you have that's great that's what really agility exactly come talk to me in nine months different now in terms of the people process and technically been talking about 360 view of the customer is short for donkey years right so what's now is different is it just a perfect storm of some of these things finally coming together is there some particular process or kind of secret sauce to get us over this you know finally we're here you know we can finally get that view of the customer one of the things that that started to happen was you started moving the I the idea and the concept of a single view of a customer out of back-end master data management legacy hard really complex applications and with the poll earlier for Asian what they call customer data platform CDP's there are applications that are built natively in the cloud that are exposed through api's it makes it easier to stand up those capabilities so it really starts becoming a question of well why wouldn't you do this so in the past it would be well I gotta go get capital expenditure money and I gotta go through this whole business justification now it's I can have something stood up literally in a matter of Miss villains which is purpose-built and it gives you that capability to then plug in place so that gives especially for us as system integrators it makes it exciting for us because we can say you know what I can stand up a single view of your customer I can be couple that from the sales force the Adobe's the Marketo we are the world up that would never built for that right that's not their expertise take a minute to explain what is the customer experience engine the CSE what is it so in essence it's the plumbing it's all the stuff that nobody ever wants to do that always destroys transformations so again this was one of these things where every single transformation you had ever seen I don't care pick your vendor Adobe s AP Microsoft where they always fall down is in integration it's just it's just the nature of the business so what we did with CX II was we said you know what what I want to be able to do is I want to have a micro services based architecture that allows me to if I have a client telling app one week I can plug that in three weeks later I want to use something like tulip I'm going to unplug what I have I'm going to plug tulip in but the experience that the consumer sees on the glass it doesn't change so when I'm writing a mobile application I'm going to use the experience API what sits underneath it and this is what CXC provides is that system API layer to then say you know what I'm going to unplug tulip I'm going to plug in something else the consumer is done to what it's like it's like a Tesla versus a car there's all the software updates going on behind the scenes changing the configuration of the automobile yeah similar experience you're gonna automate creating mechanisms so that the application the workload for the user is not disrupted by you're making modifications under the hood so to speak well think of it this way so and we'll go with the car analogy which was probably why with the engine engine mechanism but I was explaining it to another another gentleman and he said he's like you guys are like to pimp my ride of ID I'm not changing my engine what I'm doing is I'm adding a spoiler here I'm adding new tires and rims here I'm you know putting on you know flames I'm doing all these things but the underlying engine or the heartbeat of the engagement that stays the same what you're enabling me to do as a business is tailor and adjust based on consumer expectations so if today they really want to engage with us with email next week it's through a RvR I they have that ability and I don't have to completely retrofit my entire IT architect and this is the modern approach that we see people that are winning take a take a certain formula and that is build software abstractions in their areas of expertise so here if I get this right the the CXC the customer experience engine is essentially your domain knowledge of the center interactive extract it away to make it easier for the vendors to work through your system yeah so you solve your own problems but unstop being a customer benefit right because what we firmly believe the hard part in a digital transformation is not the tech which is easy for me to say because I'm the propellerhead in the room but to me it's it's a much more fascinating conversation to say how do we transform your people and your process to be customer centric that's actually the hard part it's not the tech so by taking the tech difficulty off the table then that allows them to jumpstart and get to the actual meet of changing how they operate and the other piece of that which i think is ensuring you didn't touch on that specifically but I'm I'm sure it's got to be there is it democratizes the access apps and the ability to do things with that data to the people that aren't necessarily tied into the ERP and tied into these other systems so you can now have other people running out algorithms doing tests doing experimentation so really that democratization is so important well it's amazing the empowerment that you give people when you just provide transparency of the data so when when the sales staff if the retail rep in the store all of a sudden has transparency of what have been the engagements that have been going on with the consumer they can have a meaningful conversation and they're focused on how can they help that consumer in that moment so we look at it as you know the last moment that you engage with a consumer is usually the most telling because typically you are 20% more likely to maintain loyalty if it's a positive you're only four percent likely if it's negative yeah and if anything you will lose 32 percent of your population on one bad experience so you look at your thoughts on the vendor relationship and that's so much locking because I think lock-in is really about value you do a good job you get value because we will use you but with cloud tick tools and api's are becoming a very key part of the tool chest if you will for the users and your customer base and so we're seeing that the skills gap and the retraining that's trying to happen tends to focus on api's and tools so Amazon's got a cloud everybody's no one wants to learn ten different tool sets right how do you view that because I think we hear from practitioners all the time and they always say you know I just want it to work I want infrastructure as code I love DevOps I love agility but I don't want to learn all these new tool sets all right but I'm comfortable with this cloud I'm comfortable with this these kinds of tooling tool chains or api's how do you see that evolving is that going to be automated away will it be innovation there what's your thoughts there so my general feeling is I think you're going to continue to see more and more consolidation of adoptions in the rest based API space just because one it's easier on developers and developers win so if you make a developer's life difficult they're just going to move to something else so for the organizations that embrace that they're gonna continue to see that you will you will start to see more and more automation but I mean ultimately at the end of the day the economy that we work in runs off of api's and it's really the more you embrace it the more you share information are willing to share information within reason I mean there's you know legal and all sorts of things that have to have to be looked after but you know that's what that's what drives things so we as Accenture we look at application partners that embrace that methodology embrace that belief system of let's make it easy to share data that's one of the things that you know Adobe Microsoft and sa P are doing what the open data initiative is also trying to make it easier to share information amongst different stacks so it's a it's a variation of that and I I do believe that you're gonna continue to see more of that just because again the consumer that's what they expect and also the cloud native trend also that's a tailwind for that movement as well because they expect it to short standards I mean to a certain extent if you think about what's even cloud native it anymore cuz a lot of times people say well I'm on Fram well where are you I'm from ma well I've got my virtual cloud sitting over here or my privacy it's just distributed computing all right what's getting you excited here at Adobe summit I mean I'm impressed with the platform play I think they got that right I think they didn't over reach its laid out nice single view the customer got the data pipelining and semantic engine on the on the other side of it and a variety of app integrations looks solid to me what's your thoughts on Adobe I think it's a good first step to be fair I think it's a good first step I actually applaud them for for going down that path I'm excited about the possibilities it gives to our customers who are embracing the Adobe stack I'd like to see them go further especially with in terms of extending it out to other partners as well because it's one of those things of there's no one platform that solves everything that's a large reason why we established cxe is the days where you could just have all Adobe and that's going to solve everything across they'll service marketing and commerce that's there's no one provider that has that so you need to have that ability to transfer data and to drive that experience so I'm excited about where Adobe's going with the experience platform because I think it's a good first step especially on their side to try and make it easier again it's about how do you make it easier to deploy applications so that you can serve the purpose for the consumer so I think it I think it's a good first I would you describe the makeup of the ecosystem community breaking down from developers to integrators and partners because as you start to see this kind of enabling platforms as you said it's a first step is foundational you'll see how it kind of evolves sure ultimately developers will to me will be a canary in a coal mine on this one but how does has the makeup of the community on the development side what did what it's the personas are the developers the hardcore cloud guys are they mostly app developers is there some segmentation what's your view of this I think so what I'm seeing is developers turning more into cross utilization of skills if there's there's less and less of I'm just this type of developer it's usually more of I'm gonna experiment and do a little bit of everything what I've actually been finding interesting is a lot of developers are turning into people that sit in marketing or sit in sales operations or you know some people have turned it citizen integrators but it's people who do not come from a technical background but the tools that are being created today are enabling them to do more of the integration work on their own and that's one of the benefits when you have open API is recipes api's is you can put more of that power in the hands of less technical users there's that's not to say you're not going to ever need hard for developers but what I'm seeing is more and more non-technical people are getting into the developers of time cycles are changing they want to be closer to those customers that the closer to the front line is not in the back office kind of coding away right you just you don't with with consumer expectations shifting on a dime you can't wait and that's one of the things that we spend a lot of time trying to help our IT side of the house customers is how to be flexible how to be nimble so that when marketing where any business leader comes to you and says hey I want to try this out you don't say I'll get back to you in nine months it should be I'll get back to you next week yeah and that's really the goal of what we're trying to do with new titles we had a guest on the queue we've been doing the queue for 10 years first time we've ever had a guest with a title marketing CIO which was kind of business saying look I got I got to sit in the marketing team and be a CIO over here and translate and put projects together and make things happen to your point about it's an integrator kind of like putting it all together well I mean it's no different than you see more and more CIOs become much more business focused business savvy they're not just hey I'm going to keep the lights on from a technology perspective the the more successful CIOs have that business lens no different than the CMO the CMO czar having to get smarter on technology and a lot of times what we're saying is the CMOS are driving the tech agenda not the CIOs so as a result I'm not surprised to see I'm the would you say was a marketing CIO Marketing CIO thanks for the insights great to have you on yeah I think get the talk tech and under the hood marketing text great final question for you what's next for CXC customer experience engine what's going on what's the next leg of the journey for you so the next leg of a journey is we've already got the integration layer laid out so we can pretty much plug-and-play any application that is out there we're really diving into real time analytics real time segmentation taking some of the power of the capabilities that are in the CDP space to drive those engagements so it's really it's it's an expansion and then that data space and making it that much more accessible to our customers that's great you guys bring some abstraction some automation to the table for customers it's a cube bringing you all the data here and insights I'm chef Fred chef Rick stay with us more day 2 coverage after this short break

(upbeat electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. (crowd chattering) >> Hello everybody and welcome to theCUBE's live coverage of ServiceNow. We are here in Las Vegas, Nevada at The Venetian. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. Co-hosting with Dave Vellante and Jeff Frick. It's great to be here with you-- >> Hey, Rebecca. >> doing the show. >> Busy week. >> Very busy week and we are only-- >> Busy month. (laughs) >> And it's only day one. So we just heard John Donahoe who is the new CEO, he's been CEO for a year, he was at eBay for a decade. He got up on stage and he said, "When I came "to this job I could barely spell IT." But I want to talk to you first, Dave, and say how's John doing, how's the company doing? What's your take on this? >> Well, the company's doing great. It's the fastest growing software company over a billion dollars. It's got consistent growth. 35-40% growth each quarter, year over year. It's growing sequentially, it's throwing off, it's free cash flow is actually growing faster than it's revenue, which is quite impressive. Company's got a 29 billion dollar market cap. Couple years ago ServiceNow, when Frank Slootman was running the company said, we're going to put the stake in the ground and we're going to be a four billion dollar company, I think this company's going to do four billion dollars in its sleep. I think the next milestone is how they get to 10 billion. And beyond that, how they get to 15 billion, how they take their market value from where it is today in the high 20's, low 30's, up to 100 billion. This company wants to be the next great enterprise software company. Basically automating manual tasks you wouldn't think there's that many manual left, but when you think about whether it's scheduling meetings, or scheduling travel or keeping track of medical leave, and all this other stuff that's manual, they want to automate that process. >> Right, exactly, that's what he talked, the tagline this year and really for the brand identity is making more work work better for people. He said that people are at the heart of this brand. Jeff, does this strike you as a new idea? Is this going to work for ServiceNow? >> It's not really a new idea but their kind of changing their shift. It's interesting when we saw Frank Slootman on he was always, the IT guys are my homies, right? He was very specifically focused on going after IT. And Fred's great kind of early intro was, remember the copier room with all the colored pieces of paper. (Rebecca laughs) Vacation requests, new laptop request, etc. How does he make that automated. And more importantly how does he let the people responsible for that be able to code and build a workflow. So I think the vision is consistent, they're obviously expanding beyond just, the IT are my homies, 'cause it's still ultimately workflow. And I think at the end of the day it's competition for how do you work. What screen or what app is on your screen as you go through your day to day workflow. And they're obviously trying to grab more of those processes so that you're doing them inside of ServiceNow versus one of the many other applications that you might be trying to do. >> Just to follow up on that, when Jeff and I first started covering this show it was 2013, less than 5% of ServiceNow's business was outside of the IT department. Today it's about 35% is outside the IT department. So they have their strategy of, they call it, land and expand. Christian Chabot from Tableau I think was the first I heard use that term. These guys are executing on that. Starting with IT and then moving into HR, moving into maybe facilities, moving into marketing, other parts of the organization, customer service management, security, I don't know if they count that as IT, but cohort businesses. So if you look at their financials their up-selling is phenomenal. Huge percentage of their business comes from existing customers. If you look at the anatomy of a typical ServiceNow customer, they might start with a 50 or 75 thousand dollar deal. That quickly jumps to a multi-hundred thousand dollar deal, then up to a multi-million dollar deal. And then up into the high eight figures. So it's really a tremendous story and the reason is, and Jeff you and I have talked about this a lot, is because when Fred Luddy started the company he developed a platform. He took that platform to the venture capital community and they said well what do you do with this? He said you can do anything with it. They said, yeah, get out. So he said all right I'm going to write an app. He worked at Peregrine so he wrote and IT service management app. And when ServiceNow went public, I remember Gartner Group came out and said, eh, it's a tiny little market, help desk is a dying market, flat, billion dollar TAM. Well this company's TAM, it's almost immeasurable. I mean it's, the TAM is literally in the half a trillion dollars in my view. I mean it's enormous. >> It's workflow, right, so again it's just that competition for the screen. And as everyone goes from their specialty and tries to expand, right? Sales force is trying to expand more into marketing. You've got Zendesk and other kinds of help desk platforms that are trying to get into more workflow. What they were smart is they went into IT 'cause IT controls the applications that are in shop. And so to use that as a basis, and IT touches whether it's an HR process where I need to get the person a new laptop. Or it's facilities where I need to open up a new building or etc., IT touches it all. So a really interesting way to try to grab that screen and application space via the IT systems. >> And that's where John Donahoe comes is. As you said Jeff, Frank Slootman, Data Domain, EMC, you know, IT guy. And now John Donahoe, not an IT guy, came from the consumer world, he's trying to take the ServiceNow brand into the C suite. So we have him on a little later, we're going to talk to him about sort of how he's doing that. But this is a company that's transforming, they're constantly transforming. Really trying to become a brand name, the next great enterprise software company. >> I think another thing that really came out in the keynote and also just on the main stage this morning is this idea of change is not just about the technology. In fact, the technology is the easy part. One of the things he kept saying, and he brought up other people and customers and partners to talk about his too, is that it really is a culture shift. And it really is about a different way of leading. It's a different way of bringing in the right kind of talent who are not just these IT guys, let's be honest. >> Right. >> But they are data scientists, they are creative people, they integrate design thinking into the way they do their jobs, with this over-arching goal of how do I make the employee experience better and how do I make the candidate experience better too. Because that's another part of this. It's not just the people who are already working for you. In the period where there is a war for talent-- >> Jeff: Right, right. >> you also have to be thinking about okay, how do the people that we want to get-- >> Jeff: Right. >> What's their experience like when we're trying to attract them. >> So question for you, Rebecca, 'cause you cover this space-- >> Rebecca: I do, yes. >> a lot, right, and you write for MIT and-- >> Rebecca: HBR. >> HBR and the new way to work and the good, I'm trying to remember-- >> Rebecca: It's called Best Practices, yeah. >> book that you did, that interview. So as it is competition for talent, how did it strike you? 'Cause at the end of the day that's really what it's all about. How do you get and retain the best people when there just aren't enough people for all the jobs that are out there. >> It's interesting because I do feel as though, obviously, you want to be able to enjoy your workday and that's what Andrew Wilson at Accenture was talking about, really it's about having fun. And it's about having it be a great experience. At the same time I do think the human part of work is so essential. As we've talked about before, you don't quit jobs you quit bosses. And it really is about who is your manager and who is the person who is leading this change. >> Jeff: Right. And how are they interacting with employees and with you personally. >> But should it be fun, I mean, they're still paying you to show up. (Rebecca laughs) >> And I think sometimes we get confused. Clearly the mundane still takes-- >> Yes. >> a ridiculously too high percentage-- >> Rebecca: True. >> of time to do the routine, where there's this automation opportunity. But the other piece is the purpose piece and they brought up purpose early on in the keynote, right? >> Rebecca: Yes. >> People want to work for purpose driven organizations and the millennial workers have said they want to be involved in that. It's not just about shareholders and stakeholders and customers. So there is a bigger calling that they need to deliver on to attract and maintain the best people. >> A couple words about the show. So we do a lot of shows. This is a legit 18,000 person show, we're at the Sands Convention Center. It's crowded, the line at the Starbucks coffee the morning-- >> Rebecca: (laughs) Around the block. >> was about 60 to 65 deep, I mean that's a lot of people waiting for coffee. The other thing I want to stress is the ecosystem. When Jeff and I first started this show the ecosystem was very thin, Jeff, as you recall, and that's one of the things we said is watch the ecosystem as an indicator of progress. Well the ecosystem's exploding. You've seen acquisitions where companies like CXC and Accenture have got into the business big time. You see E&Y, Deloitte coming in as big partners now of ServiceNow and as we've often joked, the system integrators like to eat at the trough. So there's a lot of business going on in this ecosystem. >> Right, and that was part of the keynote too. The software's the easy part. It's are you investing in the change management for your people, are you investing in best practices. And if you're not then you're probably wasting some of your money. >> Great. Well it's going to be a great show, this is just segment one, we've got a lot of great guests so I'm excited to get going with both of you. >> Jeff: All right. >> Dave: All-righty. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Allante and Jeff Frick, we will have more from ServiceNow Knowledge18 coming up just after this. (electronic music)