>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is a cute conversation. >> Welcome to this Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. At the Cube Studios. I'm John for a host of the Cube. We're here for a company profile coming called De Monte. Here. Tom Barton, CEO. As V M World approaches a lot of stuff is going to be talked about kubernetes applications. Micro Service's will be the top conversation, Certainly in the underlying infrastructure to power that Tom Barton is the CEO of De Monte, which is in that business. Tom, we've known each other for a few years. You've done a lot of great successful ventures. Thehe Monty's new one. Your got on your plate here right now? >> Yes, sir. And I'm happy to be here, so I've been with the Amante GIs for about a year or so. Um, I found out about the company through a head turner. Andi, I have to admit I had not heard of the company before. Um, but I was a huge believer in containers and kubernetes. So has already sold on that. And so I had a friend of mine. His name is Brian Walden. He had done some massive kubernetes cloud based deployments for us at Planet Labs, a company that I was out for a little over three years. So I had him do technical due diligence. Brian was also the number three guy, a core OS, um, and so deeply steeped in all of the core technologies around kubernetes, including things like that CD and other elements of the technology. So he looked at it, came back and gave me two thumbs up. Um, he liked it so much that I then hired him. So he is now our VP of product management. And the the cool thing about the Amanti is essentially were a purpose built solution for running container based workloads in kubernetes on premises and then hooking that in with the cloud. So we believe that's very much gonna be a hybrid cloud world where for the major corporations that we serve Fortune 500 companies like banks like energy and utilities and so forth Ah, lot of their workload will maintain and be maintained on premises. They still want to be cloud compatible. So you need a purpose built platform to sort of manage both environments >> Yeah, we certainly you guys have compelling on radar, but I was really curious to see when you came in and took over at the helm of the CEO. Because your entrepreneurial career really has been unique. You're unique. Executive. Both lost their lands. And as an operator you have an open source and software background. And also you have to come very successful companies and exits there as well as in the hardware side with trackable you took. That company went public. So you got me. It's a unique and open source software, open source and large hardware. Large data center departments at scale, which is essentially the hybrid cloud market right now. So you kind of got the unique. You have seen the view from all the different sides, and I think now more than ever, with Public Cloud certainly being validated. Everyone knows Amazon of your greenfield. You started the cloud, but the reality is hybrid. Cloud is the operating model of the genesis. Next generation of companies drive for the next 20 to 30 years, and this is the biggest conversation. The most important story in tech. You're in the middle of it with a hot start up with a name that probably no one's ever heard of, >> right? We hope to change that. >> Wassily. Why did you join this company? What got your attention? What was the key thing once you dug in there? What was the secret sauce was what Got your attention? Yes. So to >> me again, the market environment. I'm a huge believer that if you look at the history of the last 15 years, we went from an environment that was 0% virtualized too. 95% virtualized with, you know, Vienna based technologies from VM Wear and others. I think that fundamentally, containers in kubernetes are equally as important. They're going to be equally as transformative going forward and how people manage their workloads both on premises and in the clouds. Right? And the fact that all three public cloud providers have anointed kubernetes as the way of the future and the doctor image format and run time as the wave of the future means, you know, good things were gonna happen there. What I thought was unique about the company was for the first time, you know, surprisingly, none of the exit is sick. Senders, um, in companies like Nutanix that have hyper converse solutions. They really didn't have anything that was purpose built for native container support. And so the founders all came from Cisco UCS. They had a lot of familiarity with the underpinnings of hyper converged architectures in the X 86 server landscape and networking, subsistence and storage subsystems. But they wanted to build it using the latest technologies, things like envy and me based Flash. Um, and they wanted to do it with a software stack that was native containers in Kubernetes. And today we support two flavors of that one that's fully open source around upstream kubernetes in another that supports our partner Red hat with open shift. >> I think you're really onto something pretty big here because one of things that day Volonte and Mine's too many men and our team had been looking at is we're calling a cloud to point over the lack of a better word kind of riff on the Web to point out concept. But cloud one daughter was Amazon. Okay, Dev ops agile, Great. Check the box. They move on with life. It's always a great resource, is never gonna stop. But cloud 2.0, is about networking. It's about securities but data. And if you look at all the innovation startups, we'll have one characteristic. They're all playing in this hyper converged hardware meat software stack with data and agility, kind of to make the original Dev ops monocle better. The one daughter which was storage and compute, which were virtualization planes. So So you're seeing that pattern and it's wide ranging at security is data everything else So So that's kind of what we call the Cloud two point game. So if you look at V m World, you look at what's going on the conversations around micro service red. It's an application centric conversation in an infrastructure show. So do you see that same vision? And if so, how do you guys see you enabling the customer at this saying, Hey, you know what? I have all this legacy. I got full scale data centers. I need to go full scale cloud and I need zero and disruption to my developer. Yeah, so >> this is the beauty of containers and kubernetes, which is they know it'll run on the premises they know will run in the cloud, right? Um and it's it is all about micro service is so whether they're trying to adopt them on our database, something like manga TB or Maria de B or Crunchy Post Grey's, whether it's on the operational side to enable sort of more frequent and incremental change, or whether it's on a developer side to take advantage of new ways of developing and delivering APS with C I. C. D. Tools and so forth. It's pretty much what people want to do because it's future proofing your software development effort, right? So there's sort of two streams of demand. One is re factoring legacy applications that are insufficiently kind of granule, arised on, behave and fail in a monolithic way. Um, as well as trying to adopt modern, modern, cloud based native, you know, solutions for things like databases, right? And so that the good news is that customers don't have to re factor everything. There are logical break points in their applications stack where they can say, Okay, maybe I don't have the time and energy and resource is too totally re factor a legacy consumer banking application. But at least I can re factor the data based here and serve up you know container in Kubernetes based service is, as Micro Service's database is, a service to be consumed by. >> They don't need to show the old to bring in the new right. It's used containers in our orchestration, Layla Kubernetes, and still be positioned for whether it's service measures or other things. Floor That piece of the shirt and everything else could run, as is >> right, and there are multiple deployments scenarios. Four containers. You can run containers, bare metal. Most of our customers choose to do that. You can also run containers on top of virtual machines, and you can actually run virtual machines on top of containers. So one of our major media customers actually run Splunk on top of K B M on top of containers. So there's a lot of different deployment scenarios. And really, a lot of the genius of our architecture was to make it easy for people that are coming from traditional virtualized environments to remap system. Resource is from the bm toe to a container at a native level or through Vienna. >> You mentioned the history lesson there around virtualization. How 15 years ago there was no virtualization now, but everything's virtualized we agree with you that containers and compares what is gonna change that game for the next 15 years? But what's it about VM? Where would made them successful was they could add virtualization without requiring code modification, right? And they did it kind of under the covers. And that's a concern Customs have. I have developers out there. They're building stacks. The building code. I got preexisting legacy. They don't really want to change their code, right? Do you guys fit into that narrative? >> We d'oh, right, So every customer makes their own choice about something like that. At the end of the day, I mentioned Splunk. So at the time that we supported this media customer on Splunk, Splunk had not yet provided a container based version for their application. Now they do have that, but at the time they supported K B M, but not native containers and so unmodified Splunk unmodified application. We took them from a batch job that ran for 23 hours down the one hour based on accelerating and on our perfect converged appliance and running unmodified code on unmodified K B m on our gear. Right, So some customers will choose to do that. But there are also other customers, particularly at scale for transaction the intensive applications like databases and messaging and analytics, where they say, You know, we could we could preserve our legacy virtualized infrastructure. But let's try it as a pair a metal container approach. And they they discovered that there's actually some savings from both a business standpoint and a technology tax standpoint or an overhead standpoint. And so, as I mentioned most of our customers, actually really. Deficiencies >> in the match is a great example sticking to the product technology differentiate. What's the big secret sauce describe the product? Why are you winning in accounts? What's the lift in your business right now? You guys were getting some traction from what I'm hearing. Yeah, >> sure. So look at the at the highest level of value Proposition is simplicity. There is no other purpose built, you know, complete hardware software stack that delivers coup bernetti coproduction kubernetes environment up and running in 15 minutes. Right. The X 86 server guys don't really have it. Nutanix doesn't really have it. The software companies that are active in this space don't really have it. So everything that you need that? The hardware platform, the storage infrastructure, the actual distribution of the operating system sent the West, for example. We distribute we actually distributed kubernetes distribution upstream and unmodified. And then, very importantly, in the combinations landscape, you have to have a storage subsystem in a networking subsystem using something called C s I container storage interface in C N I. Container networking interface. So we've got that full stack solution. No one else has that. The second thing is the performance. So we do a certain amount of hardware offload. Um, and I would say, Amazons purchase of Annapurna so Amazon about a company called Annapurna its basis of their nitro technology and its little known. But the reality is more than 50% of all new instances at E. C to our hardware assisted with the technology that they thought were offloaded. Yeah, exactly. So we actually offload storage and network processing via to P C I. D cards that can go into any industry server. Right? So today we ship on until whites, >> your hyper converge containers >> were African verge containers. Yeah, exactly. >> So you're selling a box. We sell a box with software that's the >> with software. But increasingly, our customers are asking us to unbundle it. So not dissimilar from the sort of journey that Nutanix went through. If a customer wants to buy and l will support Del customer wants to buy a Lenovo will support Lenovo and we'll just sell >> it. Or have you unbundled? Yetta, you're on bundling. >> We are actively taking orders for on bundling at the present time in this quarter, we have validated Del and Lenovo as alternate platforms, toothy intel >> and subscription revenue. On that, we >> do not yet. But that's the golden mask >> Titanic struggle with. So, yeah, and then they had to take their medicine. >> They did. But, you know, they had to do that as a public company. We're still a private company, so we can do that outside the limelight of the public >> markets. So, um, I'm expecting that you guys gonna get pretty much, um I won't say picked off, but certainly I think your doors are gonna be knocked on by the big guys. Certainly. Delic Deli and see, for instance, I think it's dirty. And you said yes. You're doing business with del name. See, >> um, we are doing as a channel partner and as an OM partner with them at the present time there, I wouldn't call them a customer. >> How do you look at V M were actually there in the V M, where business impact Gelsinger's on the record. It'll be on the Cube, he said. You know Cu Bernays the dial tone of the Internet, they're investing their doubling down on it. They bought Hep D O for half a billion dollars. They're big and cloud native. We expect to see a V M World tons of cloud Native conversation. Yes, good, bad for you. What's the take? The way >> legitimizes what we're doing right? And so obviously, VM, where is a large and successful company? That kind of, you know, legacy and presence in the data center isn't gonna go anywhere overnight. There's a huge set of tooling an infrastructure that bm where has developed in offers to their customers. But that said, I think they've recognized in their acquisition of Hep Theo is is indicative of the fact that they know that the world's moving this way. I think that at the end of the day, it's gonna be up to the customer right. The customer is going to say, Do I want to run containers inside? Of'em? Do I want to run on bare metal? Um, but importantly, I think because of, you know, the impact of the cloud providers in particular. If you think of the lingua franca of cloud Native, it's gonna be around Dr Image format. It's gonna be around kubernetes. It's not necessarily gonna be around V M, d K and BMX and E s X right. So these are all very good technologies, but I think increasingly, you know, the open standard and open source community >> people kubernetes on switches directly is no. No need, Right. Have anything else there? So I gotta ask you on the customer equation. You mentioned you, you get so you're taking orders. How you guys doing business today? Where you guys winning, given example of of why people while you're winning And then for anyone watching, how would they know if they should be a customer of yours? What's is there like? Is there any smoke signs and signals? Inside the enterprise? They mentioned batch to one hour. That's just music. Just a lot of financial service is used, for instance, you know they have timetables, and whether they're pulling back ups back are doing all the kinds of things. Timing's critical. What's the profile customer? Why would someone call you? What's the situation? The >> profile is heavy duty production requirements to run in both the developer context and an operating contact container in kubernetes based workloads on premises. They're compatible with the cloud right so increasingly are controlled. Plane makes it easy to manage workloads not just on premises but also back and forth to the public cloud. So I would argue that essentially all Fortune 500 companies Global 1000 companies are all wrestling with what's the right way to implement industry standard X 86 based hardware on site that supports containers and kubernetes in his cloud compatible Right? So that that is the number one question then, >> so I can buy a box and or software put it on my data center. Yes, and then have that operate with Amazon? Absolutely. Or Google, >> which is the beauty of the kubernetes standards, right? As long as you are kubernetes certified, which we are, you can develop and run any workload on our gear on the cloud on anyone else that's carbonated certified, etcetera. So you know that there isn't >> given example the workload that would be indicative. >> So Well, I'll cite one customer, Right. So, um, the reason that I feel confident actually saying the name is that they actually sort of went public with us at the recent Gardner conference a week or so ago when the customer is Duke Energy. So very typical trajectory of journey for a customer like this, which is? A couple years ago, they decided that they wanted re factor some legacy applications to make them more resilient to things like hurricanes and weather events and spikes in demand that are associated with that. And so they said, What's the right thing to do? And immediately they pick containers and kubernetes. And then he went out and they looked at five different vendors, and we were the only vendor that got their POC up and running in the required time frame and hit all five use case scenarios that they wanted to do right. So they ended up a re factoring core applications for how they manage power outages using containers and kubernetes, >> a real production were real. Production were developing standout, absolutely in a sandbox, pushing into production, working Absolutely. So you sounds like you guys were positioned to handle any workload. >> We can handle any workload, but I would say that where we shine is things that transaction the intensive because we have the hardware assist in the I o off load for the storage and the networking. You know, the most demanding applications, things like databases, things like analytics, things like messaging, Kafka and so forth are where we're really gonna >> large flow data, absolutely transactional data. >> We have customers that are doing simpler things like C I. C D. Which at the end of the day involves compiling things right and in managing code bases. But so we certainly have customers in less performance intensive applications, but where nobody can really touch us in morning. What I mean is literally sort of 10 to 30 times faster than something that Nutanix could do, for example, is just So >> you're saying you're 30 times faster Nutanix >> absolutely in trans actually intensive applications >> just when you sell a prescription not to dig into this small little bit. But does the customer get the hardware assist on that as well >> it is. To date, we've always bundled everything together. So the customers have automatically got in the heart >> of the finest on the hard on box. Yes. If I buy the software, I got a loaded on a machine. That's right. But that machine Give me the hardware. >> You will not unless you have R two p C I. D. Cards. Right? And so this is how you know we're just in the very early stages of negotiating with companies like Dell to make it easy for them to integrate her to P. C. I. D cards into their server platform. >> So the preferred flagship is the is the device. It's a think if they want the hardware sit, that they still need to software meeting at that intensive. It's right. If they don't need to have 30 times faster than Nutanix, they can just get the software >> right, right. And that will involve RCS. I plug in RCN I plug in our OS distribution are kubernetes distribution, and the control plane that manages kubernetes clusters >> has been great to get the feature on new company, um, give a quick plug for the company. What's your objectives? Were you trying to do. I'll see. Probably hiring. Get some financing, Any news, Any kind of Yeah, we share >> will be. And we will be announcing some news about financing. I'm not prepared to announce that today, but we're in very good shape with respected being funded for our growth. Um, and consequently, so we're now in growth mode. So today we're 55 people. I want to double back over the course of the next 4/4 and increasingly just sort of build out our sales force. Right? We didn't have a big enough sales force in North America. We've gotta establish a beachhead in India. We do have one large commercial banking customer in Europe right now. Um, we also have a large automotive manufacturer in a pack. But, um, you know, the total sales and marketing reach has been too low. And so a huge focus of what I'm doing now is building out our go to market model and, um, sort of 10 Xing the >> standing up, a lot of field going, going to market. How about on the biz, Dev side? I might imagine that you mentioned delicate. Imagine that there's a a large appetite for the hardware offload >> absolution? Absolutely. So something is. Deb boils down to striking partnerships with the cloud providers really on two fronts, both with respect the hardware offload and assist, but also supporting their on premises strategy. So Google, for example, is announced. Antos. This is their approach to supporting, you know, on premises, kubernetes workloads and how they interact with cool cloud. Right. As you can imagine, Microsoft and Amazon also have on premises aspirations and strategies, and we want to support those as well. This goes well beyond something like Amazon Outpost, which is really a narrow use case in point solution for certain markets. So cloud provider partnerships are very important. Exit E six server vendor partnership. They're very important. And then major, I s V. So we've announced some things with red hat. We were at the Red Hat Open summit in Boston a few months ago and announced our open ship project and product. Um, that is now G a. Also working with eyes, he's like Maria de be Mondo di B Splunk and others to >> the solid texting product team. You guys are solid. You feel good on the product. I feel very good about the product. What aboutthe skeptics are out there? Just to put the hard question to use? Man, it's crowded field. How do you gonna compete? What do you chances? How do you like your chances known? That's a very crowded field. You're going to rely on your fastballs, they say. And on the speed, what's the what's What's your thinking? Well, it's unique. >> And so part of the way or approve point that I would cite There is the channel, right? So when you go to the channel and channel is afraid that you're gonna piss off Del or E M. C or Net app or Nutanix or somebody you know, then they're not gonna promote you. But our channel partners air promoting us and talking about companies like Life Boat at the distribution level. Talking about companies like CD W S H. I, um, you know, W W t these these major North American distributors and resellers have basically said, Look, we have to put you in our line car because you're unique. There is no other purpose built >> and why that, like they get more service is around that they wrap service's around it. >> They want to kill the murder where they want to. Wrap service's around it, absolutely, and they want to do migrations from legacy environments towards Micro Service's etcetera. >> Great to have you on share the company update. Just don't get personal. If you don't mind personal perspective. You've been on the hardware side. You've seen the large scale data centers from racquetball and that experience you'll spit on the software side. Open source. What's your take on the industry right now? Because you're seeing, um, I talked a lot of sea cells around the security space and, you know, they all say, Oh, multi clouds a bunch of B s because I'm not going to split my development team between four clouds. I need to have my people building software stacks for my AP eyes, and then I go to the vendors. They support my AP eyes where you can't be a supplier. Now that's on the sea suicide. But the big mega trend is there's software stacks being built inside the premise of the enterprise. Yes, that not mean they had developers before building. You know, Kobol, lapse in the old days, mainframes to client server wraps. But now you're seeing a Renaissance of developers building a stack for the domain specific applications that they need. I think that requires that they have to run on premise hyper scale like environment. What's your take on it >> might take is it's absolutely right. There is more software based innovation going on, so customers are deciding to write their own software in areas where they could differentiate right. They're not gonna do it in areas that they could get commodities solutions from a sass standpoint or from other kinds of on Prem standpoint. But increasingly they are doing software development, but they're all 99% of the time now. They're choosing doctor and containers and kubernetes as the way in which they're going to do that, because it will run either on Prem or in the Cloud. I do think that multi cloud management or a multi multi cloud is not a reality. Are our primary modality that we see our customers chooses tons of on premises? Resource is, that's gonna continue for the foreseeable future one preferred cloud provider, because it's simply too difficult to to do more than one. But at the same time they want an environment that will not allow themselves to be locked into that cloud bender. Right? So they want a potentially experiment with the second public cloud provider, or just make sure that they adhere to standards like kubernetes that are universally shared so that they can't be held hostage. But in practice, people don't. >> Or if they do have a militant side, it might be applications. Like if you're running office 3 65 right, That's Microsoft. It >> could be Yes, exactly. On one >> particular domain specific cloud, but not core cloud. Have a backup use kubernetes as the bridge. Right that you see that. Do you see that? I mean, I would agree with by the way we agreed to you on that. But the question we always ask is, we think you Bernays is gonna be that interoperability layer the way T c p I. P was with an I p Networks where you had this interoperability model. We think that there will be a future state of some point us where I could connect to Google and use that Microsoft and use Amazon. That's right together, but not >> this right. And so nobody's really doing that today, But I believe and we believe that there is, ah, a future world where a vendor neutral vendor, neutral with respect to public cloud providers, can can offer a hybrid cloud control plane that manages and brokers workloads for both production, as well as data protection and disaster recovery across any arbitrary cloud vendor that you want to use. Um, and so it's got to be an independent third party. So you know you're never going to trust Amazon to broker a workload to Google. You're never going to trust Google to broker a workload of Microsoft. So it's not gonna be one of the big three. And if you look at who could it be? It could be VM where pivotal. Now it's getting interesting. Appertaining. Cisco's got an interesting opportunity. Red hats got an interesting opportunity, but there is actually, you know, it's less than the number of companies could be counted on one hand that have the technical capability to develop hybrid cloud abstraction that that spans both on premises and all three. And >> it's super early. Had to peg the inning on this one first inning, obviously first inning really early. >> Yeah, we like our odds, though, because the disruption, the fundamental disruption here is containers and kubernetes and the interest that they're generating and the desire on the part of customers to go to micro service is so a ton of application re factoring in a ton of cloud native application development is going on. And so, you know, with that kind of disruption, you could say >> you're targeting opening application re factoring that needs to run on a cloud operating >> model on premise in public. That's correct. In a sense, dont really brings the cloud to theon premises environment, right? So, for example, we're the only company that has the concept of on premises availability zones. We have synchronous replication where you can have multiple clusters that air synchronously replicated. So if one fails the other one, you have no service disruption or loss of data, even for a state full application, right? So it's cloud like service is that we're bringing on Prem and then providing the links, you know, for both d. R and D P and production workloads to the public Cloud >> block locked Unpack with you guys. You might want to keep track of humaneness. Stateville date. It's a whole nother topic, as stateless data is easy to manage with AP Eyes and Service's wouldn't GET state. That's when it gets interesting. Com Part in the CEO. The new chief executive officer. Demonte Day How long you guys been around before you took over? >> About five years. Four years before me about been on board about a year. >> I'm looking forward to tracking your progress. We'll see ya next week and seven of'em Real Tom Barton, Sea of de Amante Here inside the Cube Hot startup. I'm John Ferrier. >> Thanks for watching.

>>Good morning live from Chicago. It's the cube on the floor at Ansible Fast 2022. This is day two of our wall to wall coverage. Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. John, we're gonna be talking next in the segment with two alumni about what Red Hat and IBM are doing to give Ansible users AI superpowers. As one of our alumni guests said, just off the keynote stage, we're nearing an inflection point in ai. >>The power of AI with Ansible is really gonna be an innovative, I think an inflection point for a long time because Ansible does such great things. This segment's gonna explore that innovation, bringing AI and making people more productive and more importantly, you know, this whole low code, no code, kind of right in the sweet spot of the skills gap. So should be a great segment. >>Great segment. Please welcome back two of our alumni. Perry is here, the Chief scientist, IBM Research and IBM Fellow. And Tom Anderson joins us once again, VP and general manager at Red Hat. Gentlemen, great to have you on the program. We're gonna have you back. >>Thank you for having >>Us and thanks for joining us. Fresh off the keynote stage. Really enjoyed your keynote this morning. Very exciting news. You have a project called Project Wisdom. We're talking about this inflection point in ai. Tell the audience, the viewers, what is Project Wisdom And Wisdom differs from intelligence. How >>I think Project Wisdom is really about, as I said, sort of combining two major forces that are in many ways disrupting and, and really constructing many a aspects of our society, which are software and AI together. Yeah. And I truly believe it's gonna result in a se shift on how not just enterprises, but society carries forefront. And as I said, intelligence is, is, I would argue at least artificial intelligence is more, in some ways mechanical, if I may say it, it's about algorithms, it's about data, it's about compute. Wisdom is all about what is truly important to bring out. It's not just about when you bring out a, a insight, when you bring out a decision to be able to explain that decision as well. It's almost like humans have wisdom. Machines have intelligence and, and it's about project wisdom. That's why we called it wisdom. >>Because it is about being a, a assistant augmenting humans. Just like be there with the humans and, and almost think of it as behave and interact with them as another colleague will versus intelligence, which is, you know, as I said, more mechanical is about data. Computer algorithms crunch together and, and we wanna bring the power of project wisdom and artificial intelligence to developers to, as you said, close the skills gap to be able to really make them more productive and have wisdom for Ansible be their assistant. Yeah. To be able to get things for them that they would find many ways mundane, many ways hard to find and again, be an assistant and augmented, >>You know, you know what's interesting, I want to get into the origin, how it all happened, but interesting IBM research, well known for the deep tech, big engineering. And you guys have been doing this for a long time, so congratulations. But it's interesting here at this event, even on stage here event, you're starting to see the automation come in. So the question comes up, scale. So what happens, IBM buys Red Hat, you go raid the, the raid, the ip, Trevor Treasure trove of ai. I mean this cuz this is kind of like bringing two killer apps together. The Ansible configuration automation layer with ai just kind of a, >>Yeah, it's an amazing relationship. I was gonna say marriage, but I don't wanna say marriage cause I may be >>Last. I didn't mean say raid the Treasure Trobe, but the kind of >>Like, oh my God. An amazing relationship where we bring all this expertise around automation, obviously around IP and application infrastructure automation and IBM research, Richie and his team bring this amazing capacity and experience around ai. Bring those two things together and applying AI to automation for our teams is so incredibly fantastic. I just can't contain my enthusiasm about it. And you could feel it in the keynote this morning that Richie was doing the energy in the room and when folks saw that, it's just amazing. >>The geeks are gonna love it for sure. But here I wanna get into the whole evolution. Computers on computers, remember the old days thinking machines was a company generations ago that I think they've sold or went outta business, but self-learning, learning machines, computers, programming, computers was actually on your slide you kind of piece out this next wave of AI and machine learning, starting with expert systems really kind of, I'm almost say static, but like okay programs. Yeah, yeah. And then now with machine learning and that big debate was unsupervised, supervised, which is not really perfect. Deep learning, which now explores some things, but now we're at another wave. Take, take us through the thought there explaining what this transition looks like and why. >>I think we are, as I said, we are really at an inflection point in the journey of ai. And if ai, I think it's fair to say data is the pain of ai without data, AI doesn't exist. But if I were to train AI with what is known as supervised learning or or data that is labeled, you are almost sort of limited because there are only so many people who have that expertise. And interestingly, they all have day jobs. So they're not just gonna sit around and label this for you. Some people may be available, but you know, this is not, again, as I as Tom said, we are really trying to apply it to some very sort of key domains which require subject matter expertise. This is not like labeling cats and dogs that everybody else in the board knows there are, the community's very large, but still the skills to go around are not that many. >>And I truly believe to apply AI to the, to the word of, you know, enterprises information technology automation, you have to have unsupervised learning and that's the only way to skate. Yeah. And these two trends really about, you know, information technology percolating across every enterprise and unsupervised learning, which is learning on this very large amount of data with of course know very large compute with some very powerful algorithms like transformer architectures and others which have been disrupting the, the domain of natural language as well are coming together with what I described as foundation models. Yeah. Which anybody who plays with it, you'll be blown away. That's literally blown away. >>And you call that self supervision at scale, which is kind of the foundation. So I have to ask you, cuz this comes up a lot with cloud, cloud scale, everyone tells horizontally scalable cloud, but vertically specialized applications where domain expertise and data plays. So the better the data, the better the self supervision, better the learning. But if it's horizontally scalable is a lot to learn. So how do you create that data ops where it's where the machines are gonna be peaked to maximize what's addressable, but what's also in the domain too, you gotta have that kind of diversity. Can you share your thoughts on that? >>Absolutely. So in, in the domain of foundation models, there are two main stages I would say. One is what I'll describe as pre-training, which is think of it as the, the machine in this particular case is knowledgeable about the domain of code in general. It knows syntax of Python, Java script know, go see Java and so, so on actually, and, and also Yammel as well, which is obviously one would argue is the domain of information technology. And once you get to that level, it's a, it's almost like having a developer who knows all of this but may not be an expert at Ansible just yet. He or she can be an expert at Ansible but is not there yet. That's what I'll call background knowledge. And also in the, in the case of foundation models, they are very adept at natural language as well. So they can connect natural language to code, but they are not yet expert at the domain of Ansible. >>Now there's something called, the second stage of learning is called fine tuning, which is about this data ops where I take data, which is sort of the SME data in this particular case. And it's curated. So this is not just generic data, you pick off GitHub, you don't know what exists out there. This is the data which is governed, which we know is of high quality as well. And you think of it as you specialize the generic AI with pre-trained AI with that data. And those two stages, including the governance of that data that goes into it results in this sort of really breakthrough technology that we've been calling Project Wisdom for. Our first application is Ansible, but just watch out that area. There are many more to come and, and we are gonna really, I'm really excited about this partnership with Red Hat because across IBM and research, I think where wherever we, if there is one place where we can find excited, open source, open developer community, it is Right. That's, >>Yeah. >>Tom, talk about the, the role of open source and Project Wisdom, the involvement of the community and maybe Richard, any feedback that you've gotten since coming off stage? I'm sure you were mobbed. >>Yeah, so for us this is, it's called Project Wisdom, not Product Wisdom. Right? Sorry. Right. And so, no, you didn't say that but I wanna just emphasize that it is a project and for us that is a key word in the upstream community that this is where we're inviting the community to jump on board with us and bring their expertise. All these people that are here will start to participate. They're excited in it. They'll bring their expertise and experience and that fine tuning of the model will just get better and better. So we're really excited about introducing this now and involving the community because it's super nuts. Everything that Red Hat does is around the community and this is no different. And so we're really excited about Project Wisdom. >>That's interesting. The project piece because if you see in today's world the innovation strategy before where we are now, go back to say 15 years ago it was of standard, it's gotta have standard bodies. You can still innovate and differentiate, but yet with open source and community, it's a blending of research and practitioners. I think that to me is a big story here is that what you guys are demonstrating is the combination of research and practitioners in the project. Yes. So how does this play out? Cuz this is kind of like how things are gonna get done in the cloud cuz Amazon's not gonna just standardize their stack at at higher level services, nor is Azure and they might get some plumbing commonalities below, but for Project Project Wisdom to be successful, they can, it doesn't need to have standards. If I get this right, if I can my on point here, what do you guys think about that? React to that? Yeah, >>So I definitely, I think standardization in terms of what we will call ML ops pipeline for models to be deployed and managed and operated. It's like models, like any other code, there's standardization on DevOps ops pipeline, there's standardization on machine learning pipeline. And these models will be deployed in the cloud because they need to scale. The only way to scale to, you know, thousands of users is through cloud. And there is, there are standard pipelines that we are working and architecting together with the Red Hat community leveraging open source packages. Yeah. Is really to, to help scale out the AI models of wisdom together. And another point I wanted to pick up on just what Tom said, I've been sort of in the area of productizing AI for for long now having experience with Watson as well. The only scenario where I've seen AI being successful is in this scenario where, what I describe as it meets the criteria of flywheel of ai. >>What do I mean by flywheel of ai? It cannot be some research people build a model. It may be wowing, but you roll it out and there's no feedback. Yeah, exactly. Okay. We are duh. So what actually, the only way the more people use these models, the more they give you feedback, the better it gets because it knows what is right and what is not right. It will never be right the first time. Actually, you know, the data it is trained on is a depiction of reality. Yeah. It is not a reality in itself. Yeah. The reality is a constantly moving target and the only way to make AI successful is to close that loop with the community. And that's why I just wanted to reemphasize the point on why community is that important >>Actually. And what's interesting Tom is this is a difference between standards bodies, old school and communities. Because developers are very efficient in their feedback. Yes. They jump to patterns that serve their needs, whether it's self-service or whatever. You can kind of see what's going on. Yeah. It's either working or not. Yeah, yeah, >>Yeah. We get immediate feedback from the community and we know real fast when something isn't working, when something is working, there are no problems with the flow of data between the members of the community and, and the developers themselves. So yeah, it's, I'm it's great. It's gonna be fantastic. The energy around Project Wisdom already. I bet. We're gonna go down to the Project Wisdom session, the breakout session, and I bet you the room will be overflowed. >>How do people get involved real quick? Get, get a take a minute to explain how I would get involved. I'm a community member. Yep. I'm watching this video, I'm intrigued. This has got me enthusiastic. How do I get more confident with this opportunity? >>So you go to, first of all, you go to red hat.com/project Wisdom and you register your interests and you wanna participate. We're gonna start growing this process, bringing people in, getting ready to make the service available to people to start using and to experiment with. Start getting their feedback. So this is the beginning of, of a journey. This isn't the, you know, this isn't the midpoint of a journey, this is the begin. You know, even though the work has been going on for a year, this is the beginning of the community journey now. And so we're gonna start working together through channels like Discord and whatnot to be able to exchange information and bring people in. >>What are some of the key use cases, maybe Richie are starting with you that, that you think maybe dream use cases that you think the community will help to really uncover as we're looking at Project Wisdom really helping in this transformation of ai. >>So if I focus on let's say Ansible itself, there are much wider use cases, but Ansible itself and you know, I, I would say I had not realized, I've been working on AI for Good for long, but I had not realized the excitement and the power of Ansible community itself. It's very large, it's very bottom sum, which I love actually. But as I went to lot of like CTOs and CIOs of lot of our customers as well, it was becoming clear the use cases of, you know, I've got thousand Ansible developers or IT or automation experts. They write code all the time. I don't know what all of this code is about. So the, the system administrators, managers, they're trying to figure out sort of how to organize all of this together and think of it as Google for finding all of these automation code automation content. >>And I'm very excited about not just the use cases that we demonstrated today, that is beginning of the journey, but to be able to help enterprises in finding the right code through natural language interfaces, generating the code, helping Del us debug their code as well. Giving them predictive insights into this may happen. Just watch out for it when you deploy this. Something like that happened before, just watch out for it as well. So I'm, I'm excited about the entire life cycle of IT automation, Not just about at the build time, but also at the time of deployment. At the time of management. This is just a start of a journey, but there are many exciting use cases abound for Ansible and beyond. >>It's gonna be great to watch this as it unfolds. Obviously just announcing this today. We thank you both so much for joining us on the program, talking about Project wisdom and, and sharing how the community can get involved. So you're gonna have to come back next year. We're gonna have to talk about what's going on. Cause I imagine with the excitement of the community and the volume of the community, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Absolutely. >>This is absolutely exactly. You're excited about. >>Excellent. And you should be. Congratulations. Thank, thanks again for joining us. We really appreciate your insights. Thank you. Thank >>You for having >>Us. For our guests and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Barton and you're watching The Cube Lie from Chicago at Ansible Fest 22. This is day two of wall to wall coverage on the cube. Stick around. Our next guest joins us in just a minute.

>> Live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Adobe Summit twenty nineteen brought to you by Adobe. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Cube live coverage here in Las Vegas for Adobe sum of twenty nineteen. I'm John for which have Frick. Where he with a cube alumni that had job for three years. And you'LL Bhambri, Vice president of Platform Engineering at Adobe. Great to see you. Thanks for coming by. >> Thank you. >> Let's talk. Engineering. That was your line on the keynote. Great Kino today, by the way, super impressed with content. I'm washing that slides you're presenting, like were to cloud company. I'm failing my Amazon reinvent here. You guys built a really cool platform. Take us through. This was your mission. That's true. So take us through your journey. So how'd we get here? How did you get this beautiful platform? >> So, you know, we've been at it for a few years, and as you know, we've seen CEOs and see emos late. That their focus is to really deliver, you know, delightful experiences to their customers. And not just once, but throughout the journey off the customer. Right? Delight your customer. Every step of the way is what you'LL hear from Adobe from our customers. And we are really helping them to do that. And obviously, in order to do that, there is on, as you well know, that data is behind everything to do with experiences as well. There is a lot ofthe interaction of data and bringing it all together to really understand that holistic view of the customer is super important. And, you know, as you've been this realist, you know, the holistic view of the customer. It's not that you just ended once, and you forget about it, right? You have to build this in real time because the interactions that customers are having with brands are to wear through mobile devices to the apse that they're using off the those brands. And the businesses have to understand that whole journey off the customers and understand what their preferences are. Write what? You know what they like, what they don't like and be able to keeping like that context really during the journey. Whether they're coming to their Web site for the first time are they are repeat, customers be able to give them the right experience at every touch point. And that's where you need all of this data, which is a lot of data. So so you know, We've been on this big data journey on me personally, even, you know, for a long time. But the scale that I've seen here I had not seen before >> our IBM conscious when you weren't IBM prior from Hadoop World, you had your eye on this big data trend. Now, at Adobe, when you have really data coming in with apple cases out in the market place to put a platform together. Hard task. But I want to ask you specific question around that. Looking at the architecture slide you have and analytics cloud and add Cloud a marketing cloud in the commerce cloud. They all have Marcus that they have to address and be highly effective as almost appear placed in alone. But now, integrating across each other now with the journey that you guys were put together is difficult. I know that from a computer science background. How does how did you guys look at that? Architecturally, what were some of the guiding principles around building that? Because you don't want to compromise the capabilities of those functional elements. So you decompose and I get that. How did you put it all together? What was the key guiding principle around. >> Yeah, so that's a really good question, because I mean, Adobe has bean delivering applications, right? Like you said, whether it's around analytics, our marketing cloud or advertising. And now we obviously just acquired the commerce cloud on DH. When you look at the common stuff around all of this, it's data, right? Data being captured, two different channels, data that needs to be curated, you know, having a common data dictionary so that, you know, things mean the same on DH, even though they're captured two different channels. So gathering this data curating this data, organizing it for that holistic view of the customer organizing it so that you can do B I, and reporting on that data is all something that we pull together in the platform there. Now it becomes that whether it is you're doing analytics on this right, which could be a B I and the putting all your doing I and Melander is to do your next best action. All your targeting these customers with personalized content. You're doing it on that single version of the truth, which is the real time customer profile that powers all of these different clouds. So that it's not like when you do reporting you have one view ofthe a customer. But when you're trying to show them personalized content, half the view is lost because the data was siloed. So we've gone past all of that. There's no data silos now, right? >> Real time customer profile is literally being updated all the time. That's the key in great, exciting part about it is a curious >> kind of philosophically. And execution is like you've been in this space for a long time, and one of the jokes I left shares, you know, we used to make decisions based on a sampling of something that happened in the past. Now you know, we can make decisions based on all of the data that's happening now, but at the same time, your challenges, that source's heir changing all the time. The speed of the input is changing all the time, and the expected return on your reaction is shortening all the time. So from from just a date, a professional and I'm sure it's super exciting and super scary to move that paradigm shift to you got to deliver the right thing right now >> and you know, one of the key things field is that as all of this data was being gathered, right, obviously this data has to be gathered with these events are occurring. So if you look at glands, their customers are global. They are transacting browsing, whether it's on where mobile devices with that land globally around the world. That means data has to be collected from these globally distributed edges. And it has to be brought in processed in real time pending that profile. And as the data keeps coming, the profile is updated right? And and you can't have stained a dying, they're right, because otherwise, you know you are action ing based on something that happened five minutes ago. You know how we've seen that you buy something and you're still getting ads off that same product that you buy even a day or two days late? >> Already bought ten anymore. Ten. >> So that's because that bland has a stale profile off you, right? But if they had the real time customer profile, then there's no way that they would be delivering our action ing based on that stale information. So just like the data was being gathered from edges even when we have to deliver the experiences right. This is where edge computing comes into the picture, right? So we are also taking. So when you look at the whole architecture of the platform, yes, it's based on the cloud and you know it's a big data stack. It's completely assassin offering. But there is also a big edge computing part of the platform, which is where all the hard data is collected. Process and action and to your point, trade, like as we build, say, predictive models on Ex Best action on the data that's on the cloud. The scoring off the models has to happen on the edges where the events are crying. So this is a complicated engineering problem. But that's why I guess we love it. >> Big smile. So the data is critical. So about how adobes changed over the past few years because you guys did clown. I heard the nuance. I heard that keynote, you know, reading through the names of the lines. Is that it? It's hard to get data right at the beginning. Yeah, get cloud right now. You got data rights. Take us through that point because this is where I think the key to success is how to make that data work. Because if you're gonna have open AP eyes and open data integrity, that data right database, it's a time Siri's aircraft dated. A lot of different applications might choose certain technology. Yes, you have to deal with that. How, how important is the texture on that? >> So So that's why that's a great question that, you know, from a platform standpoint, our goal is that we have to be able to answer the questions with the right laden see or speed as well as relevancy, right? So when we talk really time, it's about it's Leighton sees. You know, when you talk to engineers, they only talk agency. But it's not that right. It's needn't see and relevancy. So in order to depending on. Like if it's more like B I r. Reporting kind off questions or queries, you need to organize the data certainly for, you know, single lookups off customers, right? You have to organize the data differently, and that's where our I'd be comes into the picture that how do we partition and organize this data to meet the needs ofthe both operational as well as the more, you know, like analytical kind ofthe workloads. So we support both and to your point, also that, you know, then we need a sequel database where there's no sequel database are a graft database. I mean, those are choices we make, but on top, they're providing FBI's. So we're abstracting all of that from the user. And you know how where we direct question, that's all R ight, but their applications are not going to break because they're writing to the FBI's. So as technologies advance underneath, we make those choices, but again so that they're getting the right agency and relevancy. >> So in the cloud game, we used to talk about this when you when you're on the Cuban way, an IBM the devil's movement was full tilt and they use the term infrastructure is code. Uh, so you're kind of getting out. I want to get your reaction to this Is that if applications and workloads are the use, cases are gonna determine the date of structures, data architecture and Leighton see relevance equation isn't. Then there's a new kind of infrastructures code emerging. Is that data as code? So, or maybe it's this should that workloads dictate what type of data diversity and Leighton see relevance is needed Or is that come from the network again? The question is, workloads are kind of in charge, I guess. What? I'm trying to get out. So >> I Yeah, I would say that, you know, as a platform, you have to support all of these workloads, right? So which means that from an architecture standpoint, we have to make sure that whether it's analytical, kindof a question or workload like B. I reporting whether it is, you know, more like an operational kind ofthe question around, You know that you want to just do a quick question around. You know, what did this customer by or what John's action happened? The underneath data structures and databases we have to pick the right ones so that way are able to support both >> the expectations, the expected yes, the expectations of the workload. >> It is. >> You're running commerce. Leighton Seon Relevance. Low latent. She's going to be in the milliseconds or >> gut ache >> and relevance. Gus, have a high bar there, too. Analytics query for a B. I tool might be, if every second so again, this is a huge Delta in terms of capabilities, and I think that will happen on the flies hard. Yes. How do you guys do that was sauce. >> Yeah, so that's That's the, you know, underlying technology that you know the way we are bending, that is, so that you can support both of those and wait with the customers were sticking to that. They wants equal access to the data they're getting. That's equal access now, depending on the kind ofthe queries, whether they, Paula's B I and reporting are more like transactional kind of things in nature. That's the that. Those are the right technical choices that we're making behind the scenes so that the user, those on our lab print right, because they can really focus on the insights that they're getting and really making decisions based on that inside and not get caught into how to bend all of these different pieces so that they can support both of these work clothes. The other thing is that you know a lot off the time that has Bean spent an I T. Has Bean to figure out all of this so that the CEO can support the line of business like the CMO now by, you know, Adobe taking. Get off this all this. It's heavy lifting. That idea had to do. I think that, you know it will be able to meet the requirements of the line of business much faster. And there's going to be, you know, the agility that is needed to support the business. I think that's really our goal in how we support the CEOs so that they don't worry about all this technology, all the data management, how to collect all this data from globally distributed edges. I mean, that's the partnership that we are, you know, bending with the CEOs so that we help them in their journey off, really helping their line of business deliver the best experiences >> on Jewel. Great to see you having so much fun, Toby. Thank you. What's it like there? Tell us, what's it like working in a job? You got a platform? Certainly. There's a lot of hard problems to solve. So you got that on the engineering side, tell us what the cultures like they're >> doing is a fantastic company. I mean, I just love every bit every every minute that I spend here is fantastic. It's, you know, great people open culture open to new ideas on DH. You know, I guess, uh, >> all the >> creative cloud you know has got the straight of it. Eve itches in fused in people. So it's just it's it's just being a blast and and, you know, people recognize them. Barton's off how data is so critical to delivering those delightful experiences, and it's very rewarding to just see how focused everybody is in the company to really help businesses delight their customers. So it's zygo >> system is great, but the developer ecosystem What's your reaction to that of the >> I mean Adobe Io is I don't know. I feel, you know, Yeah, So that's so if you think of all the creators that work with Adobe products and build their applications, I mean, the ecosystem is very rich. So combined creatives on the data and I t I mean >> so we should call the marketing native like cloud native accomplice of developers, developers. It's coming together >> on DH because >> cats living together I mean, this is >> called wait. Call them that experience maker's late. So we are really bringing experience makers, developers, data, scientists all together >> It's a whole new level for a >> whole new level. It's thanks >> for coming on. Sharing the insights. Cube coverage live here, and it will be some in Las Vegas. I'm John for your jefe. Rick, Stay with us. We're here for two days. We're in day one of wall to wall coverage at Adobe Summit. We write back.

live from Orlando Florida it's the kue covering sapphire now headline sponsored by ASAP Hana cloud the leader in platform-as-a-service with support from console Inc the cloud internet company now here's your host John furrier hey welcome back and we are here live in sapphire now in orlando florida this is the cube silicon angles flagship program we go out to the events and extract the signal noise want to thank our sponsors SI p HANA cloud platform and console inc at consoled cloud our next guest is an eel cebu vp of business development at fred balboni who is the GM of IBM here on the cube together SI p time you book them back of the cube good to see you guys like when is down so microsoft's up on stage ibm's here with SI p this is the old sav no real change of the game in terms of you guys have been multi-vendor very partnering very eco system driven but yet the game is changing very rapidly in this ecosystem of multi partnering with joint solutions i mean even apple your announcement earlier so is this kind of like a bunch of Barney deals as we used to say in the old days or what is the new relationship dynamic because data is the new currency it's the new oil it's the digital capital data is capital data is a digital asset partnerships are critical talk about this dynamic partnerships are critical and I think what we're doing is we are going deeper than we've ever gone with these partnerships with IBM we announced last month we announced the joint ASAP IBM partnership for digital transformation what does this do so what we've been doing traditionally with IBM we've had siloed partnerships with different IBM brands right we had a partnership with a power brand we had a partnership with the cloud team we are a partnership with GBS what we've done now with the digital transformation is bringing it all together so we have a CEO level discussion that's driven this partnership and I think that's really the differentiation so we have moved away from the so-called Barney deals because our customers expect bill talked about it in the keynote today he says when it's a multi partner situation customers expect that you're going to have one voice you're going to be a line you're going to provide value to those customers that's what we're trying to do and that's what this partnership is all right I want to get your thoughts on this I mean I'm Barnum's reference to the character you know I love you you love me kind of like a statement of mission but really not walking the talk so to speak but but I want to get your thoughts because you have a look at the analytics background at IBM when you built that business up there's a conflict in a way but it's also a great thing in the market apps are changing in very workload specific at the edge with its IOT or a mobile or whatever digital app they have to be unique they have to have data they got to be they have to be somewhat siloed but yet the trend is to break down the silos for the customer so how do you guys is it the data that does that because you guys doing a lot of work in this year you want to build great apps and be highly differentiated yet no silos how do you make that ok so it is its first of all it's very exciting and a confronting but also exciting for not only our companies but also for our customers it's all enabled really simply because of a couple of major technology shifts that have happened number one technology shift is the cloud the cloud without question is driving driving all of this in addition to your notion about data readily available data and the algorithms and software that can you know make cognitive sense of that is both driving of this whole change last but not least and I think Hana really enables this you know embodies this is the architectural change so you put those three things together availability of data cloud which means the capital investment required to build the infrastructure is inexpensive and then finally Hana which is the technology platform that rapidly allows you to take using you know a generic term api's and wire them to different sources allow you to dynamically reconfigure businesses now there's one last thing I think is really important here that we don't want to underplay and this is the social phenomena of the consumerization of IT and this has been going on for many many years but we've really seen it accelerate in the last 3 to 4 100 ala dated yeah absolutely and when you see a device like this becomes the system of engagement and oh by the way if you don't like if you don't like dark skies weather app well then go to the weather channel's weather app and if you don't like their weather I've go to one of 40 other weather apps so therefore this consumerization of IT is bombarding our CIOs what's exciting is that cloud cognitive insight a flexible core with great social engagement allows a CIO to really rapidly reconfigure so that's why these partnerships are rising that's very important you just said to about this relationship now about consumerization of IT is a complete game changer on the enterprise software business because now the relationship to the suppliers I'm the CXO or CIO I had a traditional siloed as you use that word earlier relationship with my my vendors one pane of glass like that IT Service Management down here I got the operations I up changed my appt every six months or six years the cadence of interaction was very inside the firewall absolutely so the relationship has changed with the suppliers expand on that because that really hits a whole nother thread I'm the buyer i don't want complexity you don't and what you do want is time to value so combining that with the beautiful user experience that you know thanks to devices like the one that Fred showed you know are an absolute necessity they it's it's understood now it's an expectation that customers have and customers of customers also have so i think that is impacted us in multiple ways what you heard and build scheme out you heard that with our supplier Network you heard our president for ASAP Arriba Alex talk about it he is that the change within that organization itself with our different vendors with the fact that we have to provide choice to our customers i think that is that has changed the way we do business and it's interesting to just I mean this is right now a moment in history as a flashpoint not that's a big of event but it's been seeing this trend happening over the hundreds of cube events that we've been to over the past few years is that now in just today highlights it the Giants of tech are here ASAP IBM or I mean Microsoft Office state's atty Nutella the apple announcement you guys have a similar deal with Apple these are the Giants okay working together now iBM has bluemix you have HANA cloud platform you have on a cloud everyone's got cloud so this kind of highlights that it's not a one cloud world absolutely and so this really kind of changes the game so I got to ask you given all that how do you guys talk to the ecosystem because they're our total transistors going on at capgemini Accenture pwc CSC it's an outside-in dynamic now how is that change for you guys as you guys go to market together in a variety of things in a coop efficient some faces how does that dynamic change with it for the partners that have to implement this stuff so co-op edition is is a reality i think we've asap we've learnt this probably from a partner that does the best which is IBM they probably they practically invented cooperation in the enterprise software space so i think here's how here's the way we look at it right so so we are looking at with with hana with HANA cloud platform we're really morphing into a platform and applications company and and we have the strategy of essentially later thousand apps blue so what are we doing on HANA cloud platform in such a short time so we have two about 2600 plus customers we have I think the more important part is that our ecosystem around HANA cloud platform is 400 + partners so that's an advantage visa V say Oracle for instance which is waves to have an ecosystem they lot of people there too I think I think the DNA of SI p isn't being an open company we've had that for ages so we work closely with Barton's and by the way I used to be at Oracle I was there for seven years and I know the difference its it's stuck Oracle's got a different strategy we've got a very very different very open strategy so I think what we're doing is we coalescing around these key assets right our digital Korres for Hana Hana cloud platform as the key platform for our customers okay so a nice watching out there and looking out over the next year so what execution successes do you put out there that's a to prove that you guys are are open and you guys are doing good deals what success kpi's key indicators would you say look for the following things to happen so number one available availability of AP is I think if you look at the different api's they access to the variety of SI p systems what you did see is that there's a digital core there's all of the different assets we've got in the cloud easy access to those I think customers can look for that right how can they rapidly develop an essay p successfactors extension or how can they extend ASAP arriba very quickly integrating that with the s100 digital core I think that's number one number two is the HCP App Center so we have probably about a thousand plus apps out there and by the way I do need to give a shout out here because we've got three apps that three iOS apps that IBM pour it onto HANA cloud platform in the last six weeks was it Fred six weeks we're talking about you know an incredibly short amount of time that are now highlighted on HANA cloud platform app center Fred talk about IBM right now because this isn't a game finished shift I've noticed more aggressively the three years ago I saw the wave coming at IBM and now remote past two years it's just been constant battering on the beachhead iBM has been donating a ton of IP with open sores everyone's behind blue bluemix has gone from you know a fork of cloud foundry to a now really fast they're moving very very quickly yes sir writing apps you're partnering is this part of the strategy just to kind of keep humbling the Markowitz assets like this is that's open the more open IBM and how is open mean to for you guys today well because I think at the end of the day we got to realize that I mean us to question a couple couple questions ago and I Neal answered it quite well which is customers are going to make the choice customers want to be flexible in their choice so understand I want to first of all shout outs IV to Apple excuse me to sav a shadow tennis AP here which is s ap has always been about partnering an ecosystem and so that's a court that's a core belief of theirs so when you look at what they've technically done here with the HANA cloud platform you know one of the many strategists can put this on a board enjoys well this is what this is what they should be doing but the reality of it is is the reason companies stay with existing service providers the reason companies say with existing technologies is because they've already got it it's what they know how to do and so and what they want to do is very hard so the Hana architecture in the hunting club platform was probably drawn on a board ten years ago the fact that it's real and here now now mace clients the ability to actually make these kind of ships IBM's move to the cloud moving assets to the cloud because we recognize clients are actually going to want to pick and choose and build these things in a dynamic fashion and we want our workloads to be on the IBM cloud every single show I go to down basically feels like a cloud in a data show even amplify which is kind of a commerce show sure it's all about data and the cloud so I we got to get we got to get wrapped up I want to get one final thread in with you guys and that is unpardonable Apple just spent the billion dollars with the uber clone and China so you see their partner strategy they did partner with you guys and now SI p this is a really interesting strategy for Apple to go into the enterprise they don't have to get over their skis and over-rotate on this market that can come in pre existing players and extend out versus trying to just have a strategy of rolling products out so it seems that Apple is partnering creating alliances as their way into the enterprise similar to what they're doing in in China with who were just a random example but which is impressed this week is that the Apple strategy I mean you guys both talk to Apple I mean you guys have both of deals share some color on Apple's partnering and alliances their joint venture not your invention for joint development seems to be very cool so I it's not I I I want you know when I look at what we're doing with that you know we have a goal and our goal is we believe that we can transform the enterprise you know we I BM we IBM and SI p we IBM and our partners including Apple we want to transform enterprise Apple signed on to that because Apple realized that they were changing consumers lives and and then they woke up and they said well actually but many people spend a large part of their waking day at work so if I can change a consumers life I can also change an enterprise employees life and that is the work that we are setting about doing and so therefore the partnership IBM understands enterprise really well SI p was Bill statistic today seventy-three percent of the world's transactions run through an essay peak or so yeah Apple's very obviously very delivered in picking their partners we're thrilled with the mobile first for iOS worked in Swiss great programming language has great legs is so elegant and sweet it's like see but more elegant absolutely I think again when you look at what Apple's mission has been and you look at sa peace mission right we talked about helping companies run better and transforming lives so i think i think the missions actually do intersect here and and I think SI p is a very different company than we were you know 20 years ago so for us now that user experience and product while agent by the way absence proc solid quality absolutely so I think I i think you know we converge on those areas so I would say that it's a it's a very natural farming from Apple's a brilliant strategy because it's interbred and it prizes hard you guys to live that every day it's not easy and we see venture-backed startups try to get into the enterprise and the barriers just go up every day with dev ops and you know integration now is mrs. Ann we could talk about another segment with a break but we haven't gone to the whole what does it mean to integrate that's a whole nother complex world that requires orchestration really really interesting and you just write that over the weekend and a hackathon absolutely and I think now with the tools that we're making available on our cloud platform as part of a platform as a service I think again that's the way where we can get the user interface the experience that apple provides combined with the enterprise solid stuff that we do that's awesome I'll give you guys both the final word on the segment and a bumper sticker what is this show about this year what is s AP sapphire 2016 about what's the the bumper sticker what's the theme I you know what I love builds words today I think it's about empathy it's about making it real for customers I think you'll see you know our demos are joined demos as well both in an essay p IBM Joint Center here as well as in the IBM boat you see real life solutions that are real that customers can touch that they can use so I'd like to go with that predicate real hey listen to me it's a really simple to two simple words digital reinvention every single company in the world is trying to become a digital company I think about my Hilton app when I checked into my hotel yesterday and I opened my door with my iPhone my hotel my room door you know it is every company is endeavoring to become a digital company and what what sapphire is about this year is everyone realizes at the core of every company is that platform that s AP gahanna or ECC platform and every major enterprise that's waking up to that suddenly realizes we've got to do something an essay p nibm our partner here to help thanks guys so much for sharing your insight digital reinvention going on for real here at sapphire this is the cube you're watching the cube live at sapphire now we'll be right back thank you