>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of next level network experience event brought to >>you by info blocks. Okay, welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's coverage of the next level networking experience. Virtual event within four blocks. I'm John Furrow, your host of the Cube. We're here in our Palo Alto, Calif. Studios as part of our remote access during Covic, getting the interviews and the stories and sharing that with you. We got a great guest here, then savages the network operations manager at Morgan School District in Utah. A customer of info blocks to share a story. Then thanks for coming on. >>Thanks for having >>me. First of all, the Red Sox had a plus interview. I would say right now is gonna go great. Go Sox. Which baseball was in season. Great to have you on. Um, >>we'll get there. We'll >>get there. Um, my Yankee fans say when I say that. But anyway, Miss baseball, um, you know. But that brings up covert 19 baseball season sports. Life has been impacted. Your district. Like many school districts around the world, we're told to shut down, send workers home. That meant sending kids home, too. So we got the educators, get the administration, and you've got the kids all going home. >>Yeah. >>What did you do to keep things going? Because then stop. They had to do the remote learning and new things were emerging. New patterns, new traffic, new kinds of experiences. What did you learn? What's going on? >>Well, first we tried to lock the doors and pretend we weren't there, but they found us. Um, really? I mean, real quickly in our school district, we're not a 1 to 1 operation, so the, uh that caused a big change for us. Um, we had to quickly adapt. And we chose to use chromebooks because that's what we have for the students to use in their classes. So getting that, uh, squared away and send out into the family's was was a big challenge. But then on top of that being the school district, we then had to decide. Okay, how do we protect and filter provide the filtering that the students are gonna need even though they're at home? So there's some relative safety there when they're online and and accessing your email and things like that. So those were. Our two are probably our two. Biggest hurdles was, you know, ramping up the devices and then and then providing, making sure, you know, the network access from a filtering and consistency standpoint was going to work. >>You know, I got to ask you because I see this kind of disruption you don't You don't read about this in the i t. Manual around disaster recovery and, you know, disruption to operations. But essentially, the whole thing changes, but you still got to connect to the network, DNS. You gotta get the access to the content. You got content, you get systems. You got security all to be managed while in flight of dealing with connection points that remote. So you've got the disruption and the craziness of that, and then you've got this big I o t experiment basically edge of the network, you know, in all over the place. You know, on one hand, you kind of geek out and say, Wow, this is really kind of a challenge is an opportunity to solve the problem at the same time, you know, What do you do? So take us through that because that's a is a challenge of locking down the security in a borderless environment. People are everywhere. The students business has to get done. You got to resolve to. The resource is >>so thankfully, we had migrated If it blocks several years ago. Um and just this last, I would say in October, I finally got us on. Ah, cloud the blocks. One threat defense Cloud portion of it too. So from a security standpoint, we already had a really good, um foundation in place from both the DNs aspect and the DNS security aspect. Um so that was to be honest, most users. It was seamless transition. In many regards, both users didn't even realize they were being, You know, pushed through the info blocks is cloud DNs server, you know, which was providing security and filtering. So that was a big plus for us because it it was less man hours. We had to spend troubleshooting people's DNS resolutions. Why sites Wouldn't you know? Maybe they weren't being filtered correctly. All that was was to be honest, perfect. Where other platforms we had previously were just a nightmare to manage, >>like, for example, of the old way versus the new way here and marital, is it? What files configuration will take us through? What? You >>know, it was like a separate. It was a separate product content filter that works in conjunction with the firewall. Um, and I'm not going to name the company's name. I don't want, you know, even though many company but it seemed with that product we were spending, on average about 3 to 4 hours a day fixing false positives just from a filtering aspect because it would interfere with the DNS. And it does. It didn't really do it. I mean, how it filters is not based on DNS. Totally right. So by migrating temple blocks are DNS and the filtering the security is all handling at the DNs level. And it was just much more, um, to be I mean, frankly, honestly, is much more invisible to the end user. So >>more efficient. You decouple filtering from DNs resolution. Got it. All right, this is the big topic. I've been talking with info blocks people on this program in this event is on how this new d d I layer DNs d XP and I p address management kind of altogether super important. It's critical infrastructure Yeah. No spoilers, Enterprise. You're borderless institution. Same thing you go to school as a customer. How does the d I lay out this foundational security play for delivering this next level experience? What's your take on that? >>Well, for our like, for a school platform, we we use it in a number of ways. Besides, I mean, the filtering is huge, but just for the ability, like, for example, one of the components is is response policy zones or DNS firewalls what they call it, and that allows you one to manage, um, traditional, like DNS names, right? P addresses you can. You can manage those by creating essentially a zone that is like a white list of blacklist rewrite. So you've got a lot of control, and again it's filtering at the DNs level, so it's looking based on DNS responses inquiry. The other aspect of that is, is the feeds that you receive from info blocks. So by subscribing to those, we, um we have access to a lot of information that info Blocks and their partners have created identifying, you know, bad actors, malware attack vectors based on again DNs, uh, traffic, if you will, and so that takes a load office. Not having to worry. I'm trying to do all that on our own. I mean, we've seen a lot of attacks minimized because of the feeds themselves. So that again frees us up. We're a very small school district. In some regards, there's a I am the only network person in the district, and there's like, a total of four of us that manage, you know, kind of the support aspect. And so, being able to not have to spend time researching or tracking down, you know, breaches and attacks as much because of the DNS. Security frees me up to do other things, you know, like in the more standard networking realm, from a design and implementation. >>Great. Thanks for sharing that. I want to ask about security as a very competitive space security here and everyone promising it different things at different security things. You know, by I gotta ask you, why did you guys decide to use info blocks and what's the reason behind it? >>Well, to be frankly honest, I'm actually in info blocks trainer and I've been training for 15 years, so I kind of had an agenda when I first took this job to help out the school district. In my experience, I've been doing working in networking for over 20 years. And in my experience, I ever boxes one of the most easy and in best managed DNS solutions that I've come across. So, um, you know, I might be a little biased, but I'm okay with that. And so I I pushed us to be honest, to get there and then from the security aspect has all that has evolved. It just makes to me it makes sense. Why not wrap the more things you can maybe wrapped together. And so you know, when you're talking about attacks, over 90% of attacks use DNS. So if I have a solution that is already providing my DNS and then wraps the security into it, it just makes the most sense for me. >>Yeah. I mean, go back. The info box is DNA. You got cricket. Liu Stuart Bailey, the founder, was this is zero. This didn't just wake up one day and decided to start up these air practitioners early days of the Internet. They know DNS cold and DNS is we've been evolved. I mean, and when it needs that when you get into the DNS. Hacks and then you realize Okay, let's build an abstraction layer. You've seen Internet navigation discovery, all the stuff that's been proven. It is a critical infrastructure. >>Well, and to be honest, it's It's one of those services that you can't can't filter the firewall right. You have to have it. You have to. It's that foundation layer. And so it makes sense that Attackers air leveraging it because the fire will has to let it through in and out. And so it's a natural, almost a natural path for them to break in. So having something that speaks native DNS as part of your security platform makes more sense because it it can understand and see those attacks, the more sophisticated they become as well. >>So I gotta ask you, since you're very familiar info blocks and you're actually deploying its great solution. But I got this new DD I Layer, which is an abstraction, is always a great evolution. Take away complexity and more functionality. Cloud certainly cloud natives everywhere. That's but if it's for what is the update, if if I'm watching this month, you know I've been running DNS and I know it's out there. It's been running everything. And I got a update, my foundation of my business. I got to make my DNS rock solid. What's the new update? What's info blocks doing now? I know they got DNS chops seeing that on it. What's new about info blocks? What do you say? >>Well, it's, you know, they have a couple things that they've been trying to modify over the last several years. In my opinion, making more DNS like a you know, like software as a service, you know, service on demand, type of approach. That's a yes. So you have the cloud components to where you can take a lot of the heavy lifting, maybe off of your network team's shoulders. Because it is, it is. Um, I think people will be surprised how many customers out there. I have, ah, teams that are managing the DNS and even the D HCP aspect that that's not really what their experiences and then they don't They don't have, ah, true, maybe background Indians, and so having something that can help make that easier. It's almost, you know, hey, maybe used this term it almost sounds like it's too simple, but it's almost like a plug and play approached for some. For some environments, you know you're able to pop that in, and a lot of probably the problems they've been dealing with and not realizing what the root cause was will be fixed. So that's always a huge component with with info blocks. But their security is really what's come about in the last several years, Um, and and back as a school district, you know, our besides securing traffic, which every customer has to do, um, we have our you know, we're We have a lot of laws and regulations around filtering with with students and teachers. So anyone that's using a campus own device And so for us this I don't think people realized that the maturity that the filtering aspect of the blocks one defence now it's it's really evolved over the last couple of years. It's become a really, really good product and, like I said earlier, just work seamlessly with the data security. So it is going to be using >>an SD Wan unpacked everything. You go regular root level DNs is it? So I gotta ask you. How is the info blocks helping you keep network services running in system secure? >>Well, I think I think we're more on just the DNs d It does R d eight DNS and DCP. So from that standpoint, you know, in the five years almost we've been running that aspect. We have had very little if if maybe one or two incidents of problems with, you know from a DNS TCP so so are our users are able to connect, you know, when they turn on their computer To them, the Internet's up. You know, there's no there's no bumps in the road stopping them from from being able to connect. So that's a huge thing. You know, you don't have to deal with those Those constant issues again is a small team that just takes time away from the big projects. You're trying to, um, and then to the being able to now combine things. Security filtering solution. Uh, that alone has probably saved us. Oh, we'll probably you know, upwards of 500 man hours in the last eight months. So where normally we would be spending those hours again, troubleshooting issues that false positives, things like that. And there's a small team that just sucks the life out of you when you have to. You always spend time on that. >>I mean, you always chasing your tails. Almost. You want to be productive. Automation plays >>a >>key role in that, >>right? Yeah. >>So I got to ask you, you know, just a general question. I'm curious. You know, one of the things I see is sprawling of devices. WiFi was a great example that put an access point up a rogue access point, you know, as you get more connections. De HCP was amazing about this is awesome. But also, you had also de HCP problem. You got the the key Management is not just around slinging more d HDP around. So you got the trend? Is more connections on the eyepiece? Not how does info blocks make that easier? Because for people who may not know, the DNS ends announcing TCP and IP address management. They're all kind of tied together. Right? So this >>is the >>magic of DD I in my head. I want to get your thoughts on how you see that. Evolving. >>Yeah, I think that's another kind of back twice. It's kind of almost like a plug and play for a lot of customer environments. They're getting, you know, you're getting the DSP, DNs and eye Pam all wrapped in once you have this product that speaks, well, those languages, if you will and that And, um along with some of the reporting services and things of that nature. Um, when I look for, like, a Mac address in my influx database, I'm not just going to get ah, Mac address and what the i p addresses. I'm not just going to get the DNs like the host name. Maybe you know, the beauty and fully qualified domain name. Either I have the ability to bring in all this information that one. The client is communicating with the DCP DNS server on top of things like metadata that you can configure in the database to help really color in the picture of your network. So when you're looking at what device is using this I p when we talk about rogue devices or things like that, uh, I can get so much more information out of info blocks that almost almost to the point where you're almost being able to nail down the location of where the devices that even if it's a wireless client because it works in conjunction with some of our wireless appointments, too. So within, you know, a matter of minutes we have almost all the information we would need to take whatever action is appropriate for something like that, that getting used to take us hours and hours to troubleshoot. >>Appreciate a lot of the other interviews I've done with the info blocks, folks. One of the things that came out of them is the trailing. You can see the trail they're getting. They got to get in somewhere. DNS is the footprints of there you got? That's the traffic, and that's been helping on a potential attacks in D DOS is, for example, no one knows what that is, but DNS is what he said. A lot of the surface areas, DNS. With the hackers are makes it easier to find things. >>Well, you know, by integrating with the cloud I've I've got, you know, that the cloud based with the blocks one, it added a advanced DNS security, which helps protect skins Adidas as well as any cast to help provide more availability because I'm pushing on my DNs traffic through those cloud servers. It's like I've I'm almost equivalent of a very large organization that would normally spend millions of millions of dollars trying to do this on their own. So I'm getting the benefits and kind of the equivalent from that cloud hybrid approach that normally we would never have have. The resource is, >>Well, then I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to remote into the Cube studios. Talk about next level networking experience, so I want to just ask you, just put your experience hat on. You've been You've seen some waves. You've seen the technology evolve when you hear next level networking and when you hear next level networking experience almost two separate meetings. But next level networking means next level. Next level networking experience means is some experience behind it. One of those two phrases mean to you next level networking and next level networking experience. >>Well, to me, I always look at it as the evolution of being able to have a user experience that's consistent no matter where you're located, with your home in your office and special with in today's environment. We have to be able to provide that consistent experience. But what I think what a lot of people may not think about or my overlook if you're just, you know, more of an end user is along with that experience, it has to be a consistent excess security approach. So if I'm an end user, um, I should be able to have the access the, um and the security, which, you know, you know, filtering all that fun stuff to not just allow me the connectivity, but to bring me, you know, that to keep the secure wherever I met. And ah, um, I think schools, you know, obviously with code and in the one the one that everyone was forced to do. But I think businesses And generally I think that's, you know, years ago, Cisco when I worked with Cisco, we talked about, you know, the remote user of the mobile user and how Cisco is kind of leading, uh, the way on that. And I think, you know, with the nature of things like this pandemic, I think being able to have your your users again have that consistent experience, no matter where they're at is going to be key. And so that's how I see when I think of the network evolution, I think that's how it it has to go. >>Well, we appreciate your your time sharing your insights Has a lot of a lot of people are learning that you've got to pour the concrete to build the building. DNS becoming kind of critical infrastructure. But final question for you. I got you here, you know? How you doing? Actually, schools looks like they're gonna have some either fully virtual for the next semester or some sort of time or set schedule. There's all kinds of different approaches. This is the end of the day. It's still is this big i o t experiment from a traffic standpoint. So new expectations create new solutions. What do you see on the horizon? What challenges do you see as you ride this way? Because you've got a hold down the fort, their school district for 3000 students. And you got the administration and the faculty. So you know What are you expecting? And what do you hope to see Evolve Or what do you want to stay away from? What's your opinion? >>I think? I think my my biggest concern is, you know, making sure our like, our students and staff don't, uh, you know, run into trouble on by say that more from, you know, you know, by being, you know, being exposed to attacks, you know, their data with Delta becomes, you know, comes back to our data as a district. But, you know, the student data, I think I think, you know, with anything kids are very vulnerable. Ah, very role, vulnerable targets for many reasons. You know, they're quick to use technology that quick to use, like social media, things like that. But they're they're probably the first ones to do security Does not, you know, across their mind. So I think my big my big concern is as we're moving this, you know, hybrid, hybrid approach where kids can be in school where they're going to be at home. Maybe they'll change from the days of the week. It'll fluctuate, uh, keeping them secure, you know, protecting them from themselves. Maybe in a way, if I have to be the guy is kind of the grumpy old dad it looked at. I'm okay with wearing that hat. I think that's my biggest. Our concern is providing that type of, uh, stability and security. So parents at the end of that could be, you know, I have more peace of mind that their kids you know, our online even more. It's great >>that you can bring that experience because, you know, new new environments, like whether it zooming or using, try and get the different software tools that are out there that were built for on premise premises. You have now potentially a click here. Click there. They could be a target. So, you know, being safe and getting the job done to make sure they have up time. So the remote access it again. If you've got a new edge now, right? So the edge of the network is the home. Exactly. Yeah. Your service area just got bigger. >>Yeah. Yeah, we're in. You know, I'm everybody's guest, whether they like it or not. >>I appreciate that. Appreciate your time and good luck. And let's stay in touch. Thanks for your time. >>Hey, thanks for having me. You guys have a good rest of your weekend? Day two. State State. >>Thank you very much. It's the Cube's coverage with info blocks for a special next level networking experience. Pop up event. I'm John for the Cube. Your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen. You buy bread. >> Oh, good afternoon. And welcome back as the Cube continues our live coverage. Exclusive coverage of Redhead Summit twenty nineteen here in Boston. Some nine thousand strong attendees here. Key notes have been jam packed, but we just finished our afternoon session not too long ago again. Very well attended. Dynamic speakers stew Minimum. John Walls. We're joined now by Lee Dae. Who's the Vice president of Marketing Communications? That Red Hatley. Good to see you. I see you and Michael brats, who was a teacher of English as a second language of Franklin Middle School in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Mr B. Good to see you, sir. And that's what your your students call you, Mr B. Is that right? What they do, we saw that way. Might just follow through on that tradition right now. All right, let's talk about why the two of you are here together. And I know you're Michael School has an interesting history that they've been kind of following somewhat independently, you know, in terms of open source and work. And only you found them through your marketing work some really very interesting. Two avenues that you have on your platform. So tell me a little bit about how how you got here. And then we'LL get into it after that. >> Okay, Great. So Red Hat has a program called co lab and this sir program where we go into schools and we teach kids how to code. So we do things like circuit boards and programming on raspberry pies. Kids have program raspberry pies into cameras to go around cities and take pictures. And we have had collapse in many cities, and we hadn't hit the Midwest. And we chose Minneapolis. And we found, fortunately, Franklin Middle School in that great group of girls and two awesome teachers that are very inspirational on, So the relationship didn't stop it. That week of coal lab, we have stayed in touch, and here at the summit, we've showcased the work in the police ship that we have together. Yeah, >> and I know a lot of the focus that the program is toward, uh, appealing to younger ladies. You know, young girls trying to get them or involved in stem education. We just had the two award winners for the women and open source with us just a few moments ago. So this is Ahh, a company wide. Durant wants a directive initiative that you said, Okay, we we have a responsibility, and we think we have a role here to play >> absolutely well. It's important to us to see the next generation of technologists. And when you feel like women, especially young women sometimes feel like technology is inaccessible to them, and they're not often in technology programs and university. So it's our initiative. Teo help young people feel comfortable and good about technology and that they can actually code. And they can actually do things that they didn't think were possible to them previously. >> So, Mr B. Help us understand how this fixing curriculum and give us a little bit of the story of how it went down. >> Well, it's funny asset. I mean, this opportunity for us is a home run out the part because we're a steam school science, technology, engineering, arts in math. So today, not only did our students perform on the main stage a song that we were able to collaborate right and go through a >> whole production process >> with music were also able to on there right now as we speak down running a booth, building circuits, presenting those circuits, presenting those circuit boards, and collaborating altogether down there with attendees of this conference right now. So, I mean, we're covering every one of those steam components, basically, in one project, one large scale technology project. So this opportunity homeland out the >> part. >> I love that because that was the first thing I went to mind. I heard photography involved. You say steam and so much, you know, we can't just have tech for Tex take. You know, I worried I studied engineering and, like, things like design and those kind of things right weren't in the curriculum. But you know what? I went to school. Creative side. Yeah. How important is that? You kind of get especially think young people get the enthusiasm going. That creative side would, you know, get them deeper into it. >> Well, you know, I always look att, individual students. Everybody has their individual gifts and talents, and it's about, you know, finding those leadership skills within each one of those gifts. And so within this, you're able to find someone that might be more creative in one area, maybe more technical and more, you know, logic orientated in other areas. So with that, you're able to just have Mohr a broader spectrum to be ableto find people's individual gives in towns and for them to in the collaboration also contribute their gifts and talents in different avenues instead of it just being one lane like just this part of technology or just this part of production and just this part of design were able to kind of integrate all of that into one thing and to take it one step further. After we did the, um So Cola came out with their mobile container to US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and it was right downtown, right outside of where our football team players brand new stadium Super Bowl is is there two years ago now And, um, so with our students being there after we got done with that, that cold lamb, when they were asking us, you know, to take it a step further in the classroom are students actually designed with our future boys Lo Bill Future Girls logo a card and then presented it to Red hat and they ended up printing off the cars and they were able to use it to build the circuit. So we weren't just using the coal lab cars. But we also got to design our own, too. >> So, you know, you said future boy's feet. So that's that's a new organization, the club that you formed the school Future Boys and Girls Club for the express purpose of what? >> Well, so we actually tie in all different content areas into assault. Obviously, this is just the future girls that are here in Boston and did the technology side with us and that parts of Spain the cold because it's an initiative for girls in technology but of the future boys and girls, uh, overall program. We encompass a lot of different continent as we integrate performing arts with academics and all the components of esteem school, um, into learning. And we do interest based learning. We do project based learning, and basically, you know, kids are learning a lot without realizing how much they're really learning, you know, and we make it fun and relevant. But we also teach the leadership skills in the hard work that goes in with it. And I mean, even just coming out here to Boston for this, uh, for this opportunity here in this summit, I mean, the amount of work that it took for the students to get here and the process, the ups and downs, especially with middle school students. You know, the marathon, not a sprint mentality, you know, has been absolutely amazing. >> Good luck with that eye. Well, >> I always say I >> haven't had a bad day yet. Just an overstimulating one. >> So lately, you know, we love having stories on the Cube and especially tech for good is something that we always get a good dose here at Red had some it. You know what else can share some of the open tour stories that were going on around the event? >> We're really thrilled. Today. We're launching our newest open source story, which is about agriculture and which we choose topics with open source stories that are important every everyone so medicine, helping to find cures for cancer, even our government and artificial intelligence. And today it's about open hardware and open agriculture. And we're launching a new film this afternoon. >> It's all future farming, right? Right. That that's the viewing today. >> Yes, and we had someone showing their their farming computer on our stage, and it's actually done in Summit >> Show for today. So you've got the open studio, you know, working and you have a number of projects. I assume this fell into one of those slots right where you were Using one of those platforms to feature great work of future farming is another example of this, But But you have some, I think, pretty neat things that you've created some slots that give you a chance to promote open source in a very practical and very relatable way. >> Yes, exactly. So our Opens our open studio is our internal creative community agency. But we do get ideas from everyone around, you know, around the world. So wait, get ideas about open agriculture, eh? I, uh, what we can do with kids and programming with kids. And then we take those ideas into the open studio and it is a meritocracy. So the best ideas when and that's what we choose to bring to life. And we have designers and writers and filmmakers and strategist and a whole group of people that make up the open studio inside a red hat >> And you've done a new feature, Frank. >> Yes. So, yeah. We work together to create the container that doctor be mentioned and to create the container. And then we work. When >> you have you >> have. You know, one of the girls Taylor actually taught me just now I am not technical. I will just give that caveat. But they they make, they made circuit boards, and they're making circuit boards here. Some issue and mine doesn't work. So don't That's okay. Just, basically were you can see here we have different designs that are attendees can choose from, and then we have electrical tape that you are sorry, competent and an led light. And so the idea is to toe form a circuit and to have led light item the card. That's great. So one of the one of the girls actually taught me how to make it, but I think I didn't follow >> her. Instructed you to go back to school. Wouldn't be the first time that I would have fallen apart either on that. So where Michael, Where would you be now without red hat? Or, you know, you were doing your own thing right independently. But now you've received some unexpected support. Where would you be? You think was out that help. And how much of a difference have they made >> you? Well, let me tell you. I mean, you know, when we look at it being an after school program, the amount of enrichment and opportunities that redhead has created for us has been, honestly, just unbelievable. It's been first class, and we're so appreciative. I mean, even even in our meeting with the future girls last night, we just talked about gratitude and how grateful we are for it. I mean, when you look at this circuit, this is an abbreviated version of what the students actually participate in. This is, you know, just a one one, uh, one led light and a small formation our students were doing. I think there were seven or eight on ours. And so the amount of learning in the modern opportunity that this presented to him not only have they learned how to do the technical piece of it, they've learned howto present. They've learned howto speak and present. They've learned howto call lab, collaborate, work together on huge levels, and I mean, they learned what they can take on an airplane, you know, coming out here. So I mean, the amount of things that through the learning process of, like, eye color, large scale technology project that we've been participating since October since they brought the mobile lab out to Minneapolis. I called a large scale tech, you know, technology project, and going through that whole process has been huge. And let me tell you this as a teacher and those that are parents you're competing was so much in this day and age to keep kids attention, right? I mean, everything is swiped the phone every which way and everything. So instant gratification. So for students to actually engage in this cola program for to be set up so well from Red Hat and to actually stick with it and stay engaged with it really speaks volumes denying the program. But also, you know, our students staying engaged with it, but they've they've stuck with it, they've been engaged, and it's very interest based, the project I've seen it through. But then also the renewed opportunities and being ableto one of the things on our rubric as the teacher is toe expand and extend the learning I don't mean to be long winded, but we wanted, you know, expand on the learning that's already taken place and being out here, it's just it's just a continuous continuation of the learning, you know, not just one level going to next level going on next long light, next level. And that's that, honestly, is where the real learning really takes place. >> So, Michael, you know, from its very nature being an open source company, you know, Red Hat talks a lot about it. Ecosystem in community. If I five red right in the notes, they're you know, your student really getting the value and understanding of community. There's something about they wrote a song. Talk >> about that. We become stronger. Yeah, that's the name of the song is we become stronger And you know what the idea was. We were looking at the power point for this summer and for this summit, and in that there was, uh there was a phrase that said ideas become stronger and that's the collaboration. And so we started tossed around ideas and things like that were like, Well, we liked the idea of stronger, and then we're like, Well, this is more of the coal lab experience, not just the ideas of the technical side. And that's why we become stronger. And yet we developed a song specifically for this summit. I think you go top for, you know. >> Yeah, the performance was amazing. >> Yeah, you don't want >> one top forty, to be honest with you, but no. I mean, uh, you know, and that was another whole another phase, you know, like, I talked about the steam side of the school. Um uh, integrating the arts in and the whole production side of that, you know, it was a lot of work and another project, but it was another area of content that we're able to integrate into this project, and, uh, and we're able to perform it on stage. So, like I said, they literally just got off stage performing. We become stronger singing the whole production of song a dance routine choreography and then went straight to the boot to now present circuits and teach attendees here at the summit howto build a circuit. I don't know how much better can get in that. >> That is so cool. That's great. Now is this the song that you recorded in the same studio. Lenny Kravitz. Atlantis More. Tell me you didn't like that, huh? >> I mean, you know, it's all right. >> That's good. That's great. Congratulations, Roy. On this collaboration, it's really it is exciting to see what they're doing to inspire young people on Michael. I can tell you like your job. Don't you love it? I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, keep up the great work. And we appreciate the time here. And I look forward to hearing that song. Maybe if it hits, you know, the ice store. You know, Apple Store, maybe, You know, maybe good things will happen, right? Hey, you never know. She's Vice president marketing. We're gonna figure this. I'm checking out. I tio go by weight, become stronger. Thanks, Michael. We appreciate Lee. Thank you for having me back with more. Here on the Cube. You're watching our coverage, right? Had some twenty nineteen, but

>> Narrator: Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering AWS summit London 2019, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back to XL London everybody, My name is Dave Velante and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. This is our one-day coverage of AWS summit, London. theCUBE will go up to the events we extract the signal of the noise and I have recruited a co-host Theresa Carlson who's a friend and vice president worldwide public sector at AWS and we have a really special segment for you today. Anna Sergeant is here. She's a computing teacher and Charlotte who's a student at Townley. Wait till you see what we have in store for you. Theresa, let's get it started. So first of all, welcome (mumbles). >> Well, and I'm so thrilled to be your co-host, I just wanna tell you that right now. >> That's a first for you, right? >> Yes, it is. >> I finally got one up on for you. >> Yeah, exactly, I get to be on theCUBE (mumbles). >> So here's the deal, so you have this GetIT program. Tell us what that's all about and then we'll get into it. >> Well you know, we talked about over the last few years just in general about skills. Skills development, how critical it is and important for every age and GetIT is really a continuation of what we're trying to do to create job skills around cloud computing at every age, especially in elementary and primary school years. So GetIT today, what you're going to see from both Charlotte and Anna is we did a competition, there was over 160 applicants and it got netted down to ten schools that came here today and then we had two finalists and then we deemed a winner and they're going to get support and help but also, all these schools are gonna get support and help but it's really about the experience of them learning how to utilize cloud computing in a real-world application that actually matters to them which you can also fight to kind of social responsibility which most of these young people really relate to because they want to do something that matters to them. Just tech for tech is not exciting but tech for good is very exciting and I think that's what you're gonna hear about here today. >> We love to talk about tech for good and Anna, you're at the heart of this so how did you get into this, how did you get this all started, tell us your story. >> Well, my head teacher is quite an innovative person and she's been in conversations with Amazon and Future Foundations and they came to the school with the idea last year and invited the school to be part of the pilot program and so the Amazon ambassadors delivered their presentation to the school in September and as a team in the computing department, we got together and said, well we think this is a great opportunity for girls in tech. So we actually rolled it out as an actual scheme of lessons so the whole year eight, so that's 224 year eight students got together. They all were divided into groups of their own choice and we gave them the outline or the brief and said you know, think of an app for good that would fulfill a social need in your community. So think about the community and prepare a pitch and we then set timelines and deadlines and helped them through the research and obviously spoke to Amazon, came to the London offices as well and spent some time with your colleagues in the London office and you know, and then basically helped the girls pitch their final idea. >> So Charlotte, you got this prompt essentially and then you took it from there. Tell us a little bit about yourself and then how this all came about and what you guys did with that prompt. >> And today is your birthday so happy birthday. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. So basically I'm 13 at the moment but we've been doing this project in year eight as Anna said and basically, we were given the idea to make an app and everyone was really excited initially, but we weren't too sure about what we wanted to make it on and we were lucky enough to have the choice to choose whatever topic we wanted to make it on and kind of decide what cause we wanted to help and the solution to help it with and then we were given loads of help with the Amazon ambassadors and they really were like really kinda generous with all their help. They came to visit us and they watched our presentations and it really gained our confidence because we presented to the class and in front of the teachers and Amazon ambassadors and it's been really lovely because we've been able to gain skills that we didn't have before in computing and it's gained our confidence, it's boosted it and we've just become much like more interested in STEM and computing. >> Charlotte, let me ask you, what was your application about and what inspired you for the application? >> So my app was called Positive Of Me and we based it off of a mental health and kind of having a more positive outlook on life and we decided to do that topic because we thought that it was really important to students to have a stress-free time in school rather than always feeling stressed and under the weather because they have a lot of work or they're under-organized and stuff like that so we believe that it was quite important to help people like that so our features included like a planner, a mood tracker and just other things to kind of keep you organized and happy throughout your school life. >> So fascinated by the adoption of this approach and were you always interested in STEM or was it something that, this catalyzed your interests in your colleagues. >> I was always interested in STEM and in Townley, they like promote it a lot and they're very interested in like, because it's an all-girls school. We promote females and like we try to make sure that girls are interested in all subjects no matter what and it's been quite nice but I believe that it kind of made me more interested in STEM with my classmates because we've had a fun experience. It's not just been doing computing, it's been having a fun experience. We've been designing our own thing that we're passionate about so it's been really lovely in that sense. >> Dave: So, please go ahead. >> Well, I was gonna ask you, how did you bring it together as a group. What were kind of the core components that you worked on to bring the app together and then have the final that you got here today with. >> So we kind of thought of the idea first about mental health, that was kind of our starting point and then we developed it to what features we can include in the app. We made a mind map saying whatever features we wanted, what topics we wanted to cover and then we thought about the target audiences and they really helped us think about this in the boot camp that they hosted. It was really helpful because Amazon ambassadors came to each kind of app and they helped us with what we could include and how to build on that idea. So that helped us include the target audiences, the ages that we wanted to target our app towards and it kind of helped us with that general theme and how many features we wanted to include. >> Because you had time pressures, right, so you have to make some trade-offs. So how did you make those trade-offs? You just talked to the potential recipients of the app or sort of brainstorm? >> We did a lot of surveys to what features people thought were the most important for our app and a lot of groups did that because it kind of, because there were a few different times that we needed to get it done by and every time we obviously had a time limit and so we needed to put the most important features in to our PowerPoints and our presentations and the prototypes and so people, we did surveys and people answered what features they thought were the most important to put in the app and then we implemented those before any other like more unnecessary ones. >> How did you organize your team? How many pizzas did they eat? >> Did you hear about that two pizza team, did Amazon talk to you about, Amazon Web Services, that if you had more people on your team that feeds two pizzas, that's too many 'cause that way you can move faster. >> We mainly decided to team because we got to choose like our friends to work with and obviously, we work better with the people who we're more comfortable around. So that was quite nice that we got to decide who we worked with but then the roles that we were given, we kind of just decided on what each person knew the most about, wanted to do research on and then from there, we kind of just carried on with the topics that we were initially started with. >> You told me something a while ago that really peaked my interest. You said you're an all-girl school and you almost had to reverse engineer your gender because it was all too pink. Can you talk about your thinking around a different kind of diversity. >> So basically we wanted to make the app like accept all the beliefs and stuff so that was our main focus with diversity and we didn't really realize initially that it was mainly quite girly, but then when we presented our initial presentation, obviously we got through the first round where we presented to the class but then we got some feedback from Miss and she really helped us telling us that you know, we want to make it unisex so that it's more approachable for all people and all students rather than just girls schools and then it would have more not purchases but it would have more audience. >> Yeah, better adoption but so, what did that involve? Was it colors, was it language, was it, what made it less girly? >> I mean, it was more colors and the whole theme of the app like the logo. We made it logo that was quite like not young, but quite young and girly a bit and it was mainly the colors though. We did like pink, which is, I mean it's traditionally seen as girly, pink, so we tried to make it, we searched up like unisex colors and it was more green, purple, blue, stuff like that so we implemented that into our app in the second round so that it was more unisex. >> Last time I interviewed you, I had my pink tie and pink shirt on. >> Yes, which I like, I think that was good. I've got my unisex on screen but one of the things that you did do that I really liked is you did the usability which you went out and you asked individuals what features would they like the most. I think that was really important and you can of course always do that with those boys and girls and figure out but that was really smart. So let me ask you another question. One of the things that we do find with girls and something I've been passionate about is they don't get into STEM or technology and they don't stay there. After going through this experience, one, do you think you might be more inclined to stay with technology and then I'd like to just know your opinion on how we can continue to forward this with girls after this experience, what else would you recommend? >> Yes, so as I said earlier, Townley promotes STEM massively. They have STEM days and everything so the girls at our school, we are really interested in it. This project has like really boosted my confidence and like my interest in STEM though because it's, as I said, it's made it more fun. It's not only just doing the computing work, it's made it a fun way to do it and you're working for, you're targeting towards an achievement at the end, to get the app made so everyone's trying really hard to get it done and that kind of gains your knowledge and then you learn all the new technology as you're going along so it's quite interesting. >> What are your thoughts on that Anna. I mean, we're always having this discussion on theCUBE. You look around the show, amazing show first of all, but there's a lot of men here. The line out the men's room is huge and so, because in a male-dominated industry, you look inside your own circles and your circles happen to be other men's so it's a challenge that we want to surface and be aware of. What more would your recommendations be to break those barriers? >> To do the programs like this, to actually go into schools and encourage young people because I think by encouraging all young people you know, you'll get the diversity and also the awareness. We're very subject driven in a way that our education system and actually a lot of the job roles out there we're in school, we're not aware of because we're busy teaching. So it's great to actually come in and we think about app developers and we think about testers and we think about programmers but there's all the other aspects as well which actually, unless industry comes into education and helps us show the students what the breadth of roles are out there you know, it's very easy for students to just go into a sort of like a very sort of set path. So by having programs like this coming into schools and having the industry come and talk to the students and inspire them is you know, a fantastic opportunity hence the reason why we decided to run in the whole year eight, the program >> And I've seen, like you saw today from all the groups but the kind of tech for good that the girls and the boys were able to actually decide on something that was meaningful to them and I've seen that a lot just around the world that when you go and talk to children about tech, you've got to connect the dots and I think you guys did that really well and what you were doing with your particular application but across the board the thing that we saw today which I think inspired them even more 'cause it was the thing that they were passionate about which teaches them along the way. >> Yes, yeah. >> So we love tech and I was introduced at age 12, the C prompt and learn basic. Kids today, you learn tech before you can speak you're you know, punching devices but so what was the tech behind what you were doing. Were you programming, were using cloud technologies. What was behind it? >> We mainly use more simple technology and most of the work was just making PowerPoint presentations and Word documents but obviously there were side things like we made the surveys on Word. We used Photoshop to make prototypes of the screens for the app and we learned a lot of technology at the bootcamp as well. We learned about the different kind of things we could use to make features of the app work and we learnt about obviously, Amazon were like the leaders of the program. >> You Learned about S3 storage, right. You learned about EC2, you learned about all the applications in AWS that you could build it because at the end as you build it, you'll use hopefully all those technologies is what we'll be helping you with. >> You know what I love about this story though is, and Teresa you know this, you can do almost anything with tech. Now sometimes it's too expensive or too complicated but the tech in many ways is the least important. It's more important to understand what the consumer wants, what the customer wants, what that experience is like, what the colors should be, right and then you can make the tech, apply the tech to solve that problem. >> 100%, and put all those tools together but I do hope that you learned what cloud computing was during your, because that was, I always kind of joke because one of the students at the beginning they use it but they don't always know what cloud computing is. So kind of learning the scalability and how, the ease and testing and just moving fast. So I think that's what you guys have done in a big way. From a teacher's point of view, are there other aspects that you think that should be done like either continued or done even better or faster that we're not getting to. >> This is definitely a step in the right direction. We are a bit more traditional because we introduce the students to Python. So they sort of start programming using Python and perhaps we should look more at cloud technology in greater detail in schools but we're kind of a little bit behind in terms of education in the way that we actually, and we need and we need to speed that up. >> And this is one of the big things that we're trying to do on the AWS side, is bring the new technologies into education because that is the highlight of what we see is there's using kind of older outdated technologies and getting them excited to understand how they learn with and utilize new technologies within AWS and a cloud platform because you can move faster, experiment, have quick failures and recoveries and the expenses you know a lot less expensive than you normally did. >> Well I've been around a long time. AWS changed the world and it changed it from a world where technology, especially information technology and enterprises was a world of no. We can't do that because it'll take too long, it's too expensive, no, no, no and what Amazon has done has sort of removed all that friction and turned it into a world yes you know, and builders and it's just amazing what's happening. You're the future and it's really such a pleasure having you both today. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for having us. >> Anna and Charlotte and of course Teresa, thank you guys for being on theCUBE. >> It's an honor, I agree, it's an honor to co-host but to have you guys and hear your passion and excitement for what you're doing. So my advice, keep it up, don't give up, stick with technology and STEM, you will not regret it, it's a great career. >> And have fun, all right, thanks again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right and thank you for watching. Keep it right there, we'll be back with our next guest. We're live from the Excel center here at AWS summit London, you're watching theCUBE. (light electronic music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the you covering your red hat. Some twenty nineteen rots. You buy bread hat. >> Well, good afternoon. Welcome back here on the Cube as we continue our coverage of the Red Hat Summit and you know, every once in a while you come across one of these fascinating topics. It's what's doing I get so excited about when we do the Cube interviews is that you never know where >> you're >> going to go, the direction you're going to take. And I think this next interview has been a fit into one of those wow interviews for you at home. Along was to minimum. I am John Walls, and we're joined by Dr Ellen Grant, who was the director of the fetal neo NATO Neuroimaging and Developmental Science Center of Boston Children's Hospital. So far, so good, right? And the professor, Radiology and pediatrics at the Harvard Medical School's Dr Grant. Thank you for joining us here on the Cube and Dr Rudolph Pienaar, who is the technical director at the F n N D. S. C. And an instructor of radiology at the Harvard Medical School. So Dr Rudolph Pienaar, thank you for joining us as well. Thank you very much. All right. Good. So we're talking about what? The Chris Project, which was technically based. Project Boston Children's Hospital. I'm going to let you take from their doctor Grant. If you would just talk about the genesis of this program, the project, what its goal, wass And now how it's been carried out. And then we'LL bring in Dr PNR after that. So if you would place >> sure, it's so The goal of the Chris Project was to bring innovated imaging, announces to the bedside to the front end where clinicians are not like high are working all the time but aren't sophisticated enough or don't have enough memory to remember how to do, you know, line code in Lenox. So this is where initially started when I was reading clinical studies and I wanted to run a complex analysis, but there was no way to do it easily. I'd have tio call up someone to log into a different computer, bring the images over again lots of conflict steps to run that analysis, and even to do any of these analysis, you have to download the program set up your environment again. Many many steps, said someone. As a physician, I would rather deal with the interpretation and understanding the meaning of those images. Then all that infrastructure steps to bring it together. So that was the genesis of Chris's trying to have a simple Windows point and click way for a physician such as myself, to be able to rapidly do something interesting and then able to show it to a clinician in a conference or in the at the bedside >> and who's working on it, then, I mean, who was supplying what kind of manpower, If you will root off of the project >> kind of in the beginning, I would say maybe one way to characterize it is that we wanted to bring this research software, which lives mostly online, ex onto a Windows world, right? So the people developing that software researchers or computational researchers who do a lot of amazing stuff with image processing. But those tools just never make it really from the research lab outside of that. And one of the reasons is because someone like Ellen might not ever want to fire paternal and typing these commands. So people working on it are all this huge population of researchers making these tools on what we try to do. What I try to help with, How do we get those tools really easily usable in excess of one and, you know, to make a difference? Obviously. So that was a genesis. I was kind of need that we had in the beginning, so it started out, really, as a bunch of scrips, shell scripts, you slight a type of couple stuff, but not so many things on gradually, with time, we try to move to the Web, and then it began to grow and then kind of from the Web stretching to the cloud. And that's kind of the trajectory in the natural. As each step moved along, more and more people kind of came in to play. >> Dr Grant, I think back, you know, I work for a very large storage company and member object storage was going to transform because we have the giant files. We need to be able to store them and manage them and hold them up. But let's talk about the patient side of things. What does this really mean? You know, we had a talk about order of magnitude that cloud can make things faster and easier. But what? What does this mean to patient care? Quality service? >> Well, I think what it means or the goal for patient care is really getting to specialized medicine or individualized medicine on to be able to not just rely on my memory as to what a normal or abnormal images or the patients I may have seen just in my institution. But can we pull together all the knowledge across multiple institutions throughout the country and use more rigorous data announces to support my memory? So I want to have these big bridal in front lobes that air there, the cloud that helped me remember things into tidies connections and not have to remind just rely on my visual gestalt memory, which is obviously going to have some flaws in it. So and if I've never seen a specific disorder, say, for example, at my institution, if they've seen it at other institutions who run these comparisons all of sudden, I made be aware of a new treatment that otherwise I may not have known about >> All right, so one of my understanding is this is tied into the mass open cloud which I've had the pleasure of talking on the program at another show back here in Boston. Talk about a little bit about you know how this is enable I mean massive amounts of data you need to make sure you get that. You know the right data and it's valuable information and to the right people, and it gets updated all the time, so give us a little bit of the inner workings. >> Exactly. So thie inner workings, That's it can be a pretty big story, but kind of the short >> story time Theo Short >> story is that if we can get data in one place, and not just from one institution, from many places, that we can start to do things that are not really possible otherwise so, that's kind of the grand vision. So we're moving along those steps on the mass Open cloud for us makes perfect sense because it's there's a academic linked to Boston University. And then there's thie, Red Hat, being one of the academic sponsors as well in that for this kind of synergy that came together really almost perfectly at the right time, as the cloud was developing as where that was moving in it as we were trying to move to the cloud. It just began to link all together. And that's very much how we got there at the moment on what we're trying to do, which is get data so that we can cause medicine. Really, it's amazing to me. In some ways there's all these amazing devices, but computational e medicine lag so far behind the rest of the industry. There's so little integration. There's so little advanced processing going on. There's so much you can do with so little effort, you could do so much. So that's part of the >> vision as well. So help me out here a little bit, Yeah, I mean, maybe it before and after. Let's look at the situation may be clinically speaking here, where a finding or a revelation that you developed is now possible where it wasn't before and kind of what those consequences might have been. And then maybe, how the result has changed now. So maybe that would help paint up a practical picture of what we're talking about. >> I could use one example we're working on, but we haven't got fully to the clouds. All of these things are in their infancy because we still have to deal with the encryption part, which is a work in progress. But for example, we have mind our clinical databases to get examples of normal images and using that I can run comparisons of a case. It comes up to say whether this looks normal or abnormal sweat flags. The condition is to whether it's normal or abnormal, and that helps when there's trainees are people, not is experienced in reading those kinds of images. So again we're at the very beginnings of this. It's one set of pictures. There's many sets of pictures that we get, so there's a long road to get to fully female type are characterized anyone brain. But we're starting at the beginning those steps to very to digitally characterize each brain so we can then start to run. Comparisons against large libraries of other normals are large libraries of genetic disorders and start to match them up. And >> this is insecure. You working in fetal neural imaging as well. So you're saying you could take a an image of ah baby in a mother's womb and many hundreds thousands, whatever it is and you developed this basically a catalogue of what a healthy brain might look like. And now you're offering an opportunity to take a image here on early May of twenty nineteen. And compared to that catalogue, look and determine whether might be anabel normality that otherwise could have been spotted before. >> Correct and put a number to that in terms of a similarity value our probability values so that it's not just Mia's a collision, say Well, I think it's a little abnormal because it is hard to interpret that in terms of how severe is the spectrum of normal. How how? Sure you. So we put all these dated together. We can start to get more predictive value because we couldn't follow more kids and understand if it's that a a sima that too similar what's most likely disorder? What's the best treatment? So it gives you better FINA typing of the disorders that appear early and fetal life, some of which are linked to we think he treated, say, for example, with upcoming gene therapies and other nutritional intervention so we could do this characterization early on. We hope we can identify early therapies that our target to targeted to the abnormalities we detect. >> So intervene well ahead of time. Absolutely. >> I don't know. The other thing is, I mean Ellen has often times said how many images she looks at in the day on other radiologist, and it's it's amazing. It's she said, the number hundred thousand one point so you can imagine the human fatigue, right? So it Matt, imagine if you could do a quick pre processing on just flag ones that really are abnormal by you know they could be grossly abnormal. But at least let's get those on the top of the queue when you can look at it when you are much more able to, you know, think, think, think these things through. So there's one good reason of having these things sitting on an automated system. Stay out of the cloud over it might be >> Where are we with the roll out of this? This and kind of expansion toe, maybe other partners. >> So a lot of stuff has been happening over the last year. I mean, the the entire platform is still, I would say, somewhat prototypical, but we have a ll the pipelines kind of connected, so data can flow from a place like the hospital flowed to the cloud. Of course, this is all you know, protected and encrypted on the cloud weaken Do kind of weaken. Do any analysis we want to do Provided the analysis already exists, we can get the results back. Two definition we have the interface is the weapon to faces built their growing. So you can at this point, almost run the entire system without ever touching a command line. A year ago, it was partially there. A year ago, you had to use a command line. Now you don't have to. Next year will be even more streamlined. So this is the way it's moving right now and was great for me personally. About the cloud as well is that it's not just here in Boston where you, Khun benefit from using these technologies, you know, for the price of a cellphone on DH cell signal. You can use this kind of technology anywhere. You could be in the bush in Africa for argument's sake, and you can have access to these libraries of databases imaging that might exist. You, khun compare Images are collected wherever it might be just for the price of connecting to the Internet. >> You just need a broadband connection >> just right. Just exactly. >> Sometimes when you think about again about you know, we've talked about mobile technology five g coming on as it is here in the U. S. Rural health care leveling that and Third World, I was thinking more along the lines of here in the States and with some memories that just don't have access to the kind of, like, obviously platinum carry you get here in the Boston area. But all those possibilities would exist or could exist based on the findings that you're getting right now with Chris Project. So >> where does the Chris project go from here? >> Well, what we'd like to do is get more hospitals on board, uh, thinking pediatrics, we have a lot of challenge because there are so many different rare disorders that it's hard to study any one of them from one hospital. So we have to work together. There's been some effort to bring together some genetic databases, but we really need to being also the imaging bait databases together. So hopefully we can start to get a consortium of some of the pediatric hospitals working together. We need that also because normal for normal, you need to know the gender, the age, the thie ethnicity. You know, so many demographics that are nice to characterize what normal is. So if we all work together, we can also get a better idea of what is normal. What is normal variants. And there's a lot of other projects that are funded by N. H. Building up some of those databases as well, too. But we could put him into all into one place where we can actually now query on that. Then we could start to really do precision medicine. >> And the other thing, which we definitely are working on and I want to do, is build a community of developers around this platform because, you know, there's no way our team can write all of these tools. No, no, no, we want to. But we want everyone else who wants to make these tools very easily hop onto this platform. And that's very important to us because it's so much easier to develop to christen it just about the Amazon. There's almost no comparison. How much easier >> we'Ll Definitely theme, we hear echoing throughout Red Hat summit here is that Does that tie into, like, the open shift community? Or, you know, what is the intersection with red hat? >> It definitely does, because this is kind of the age of continue ization, which makes so many things so much easier on DH. This platform that we've developed is all about container ization. So we want to have medical by medical or any kind of scientific developers get onto that container ization idea because when they do that and it's not that hard to do. But when you do that, then suddenly you can have your your analysis run almost anywhere. >> And that's an important part in medicine, because I run the same analysis on different computers, get different results. So the container ization concept, I think, is something that we've been after, which is a reproduce ability that anybody can run it along there, use the same container we know we're going. Same result. And that is >> critical. Yes, especially with what you're doing right, you have to have that one hundred percent certainty. Yep. Standardisation goes along, Ray. Sort of fascinating stuff. Thank you both for joining us. And good luck. You're an exciting phase, that's for sure. And we wish you all the best going forward here. Thank you so much. Thank you both. Back with more from Boston. You're watching Red Hat Summit coverage live here on the Q t.

(upbeat Techno music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live day two of VMworld in Las Vegas, Mandalay Bay. It's apparently very hot outside but we're in here getting all the exciting scoop. I'm Lisa Martin with my esteemed co-host John Furrier. Hey, John. >> Great to see you, welcome back to the set. >> Thank you so much. John and I are pleased to be joined by a Fortinet customer, Ken Busby, Keith Busby, excuse me, the executive director of information technology and security at the school district of Philadelphia. Keith, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> So, the school district of Philadelphia, eight largest public school district in the United States. You've got over 134,000 students. >> Yes. >> Over 18,000 staff. If only your IT budget was enormous, right? >> Yes. (laughing) >> So you guys, something also interesting, this morning Malala Yousafzai was speaking with Sanjay Poonen. Very intriguing, on the whole spirit of education, let's talk about that. You guys gave Chromebooks to over maybe half the students, about 50, 60 thousand? >> Well it's not one to one, so they're shared resources, they have carts throughout the school. We have between 50 or 60 thousand Chromebooks on our network right now. >> So I imagine great for the students and the education, the firewall security maybe a bit challenged? >> As we started transitioning to the Chromebooks, it overwhelmed our legacy internet firewalls so we had to go out and do proof of concepts and test multiple vendors. >> Talk about the security, we had Pat Gelsinger sit in theCUBE, I think four years ago, Dave Vellante, co-host, asked him, "Is security a do over?" And he's like, "Yes, it's a do over, "we need to do a do over." I said mulligan, used all kinds of terms, resetting. How have you guys set up your security architecture because I've heard stories of fishing attacks just to get the bandwidth to do Bitcoin mining, to crazy things on the security front. How are you guys laying out your network security? >> Honestly, it changes on a day to day basis, right? Because as new vulnerabilities come out, you always have to adjust your posture. Over the last year and a half we redesigned to wear we're not, we were routing through web proxies, we're required to do web filtering for the students by the CIPA, Children's Internet Protection Act. When we replaced our legacy firewalls, we were able to transition everything over to that and just use the Fortinet firewall to do web filtering, intrusion prevention, anti-virus and traditional firewalling. >> How virtualized are you guys? >> Pretty much completely virtual. We still have a few legacy physical servers but pretty much all. >> One of the things that came up in keynote, today was Sanjay Poonen but yesterday Pat Gelsinger, referred it to, was the bridging of the ways, connecting computers together but he mentioned BYOD, bring your own device as one of the ways and that was really the iPhone kind of generation. Obviously kids got Instagrams and they're on all kind of devices these days, how is that impacting your IT? Is it up and running, is it solid? What are some of the details? >> We don't have a traditional BYOD policy. It's more teachers get devices and they bring them in and we just have to find ways to support it so it stretches us, we're a small staff so we can't always help the end user with their devices so if they bring their own device, we have issues, they're trying to use applications that we can't support for whatever reason so it's an issue. >> Obviously all the devices that come in to the school in addition to the 60,000 Chromebooks, needing to rethink your security architecture, what were some of the technical requirements that you were looking for that made Fortinet the obvious choice? >> Performance and cost, right? As we spoke about, we have budget constraints. They have an extremely high performing firewall at a reasonable price. After we did proof of concept with five different vendors, and theirs just out performed them all. >> How about automation? A big talk in cloud is automation. How are you guys handling automation? Are you micro segmenting? >> We're transitioning to the NSX and Fortinet VMX for our server firewall. That's going to allow us, since we're short staff, if our server team stands up a new server my policies automatically take effect, just through the use of their security tags. >> That's the Fortigate product, right? The VMX? >> Yes. >> How is that working for you guys? >> We just did the proof of concept, we haven't transitioned our live systems over to it. But so far all our tests have shown that it does what we expect it to do. >> What's it like working in such a huge school district? I mean it's basically like, it's probably like a case study in campus wide networking. (laughing) >> We look at it as we're an ISP, right? Every school comes through us. We always say that we're protecting the internet from our students. We have smart kids and they-- >> They're digitally native. >> Yeah. They find ways to do things and then next thing you know I'm getting a report by a website saying, "Hey, we got students coming and throwing attacks at us." >> I was talking to a guy in higher ed about the bandwidth, they have huge bandwidth so obviously people game, including gaming centers, have all kinds of IP management issues. Fortnite's pretty hot, I'm sure how many people are playing Fortnite on your-- >> Luckily we don't allow that, right? (laughing) >> But this is what kids want to do. They're like born hackers. >> It is. >> They're curious. >> Yes. >> And it's good thing but you also want to basically make sure they're safe. >> Yes, that's pretty much what my job is. I want them to learn but at the same time, don't use it for malicious purposes. >> Yeah, its' true. One of the things I liked about public sector is cloud really makes things more efficient. >> It does. >> What are some of the things that you've seen with virtualization and with cloud kind of on the horizon, how has tech helped you guys be efficient and be lean and mean, kind of the 10X IT kind of guy thing? >> Like you said, lean and mean, right? We have a very small staff. The school district's budget is 3.2 billion dollars and IT's operating budget is 20.8 million dollars so as you can see, we really have to be cost effective and that's where virtualization comes into play. >> What's some cool tech that you like on the horizon? We hear a lot about SDWAN, sure that might be something that's cool for you guys? >> I like the VPCs, right? AWS, virtual private clouds, where you can set up your own network out there in Amazon's world, attach it to your vSphere so you can have on premise virtualization and out in the cloud, I think that. >> One of things that Pat Gelsinger talked about yesterday we hear this a lot John, is tech for good. I liked how he described it as it's essentially neutral, it's up to us, VMware, everybody else, to shape it for good. I imagine that's challenging? We talked about the Fortnite explosion, which I have only heard of but you've got so many devices, I imagine there's some amount of security gaps that are probably acceptable. In terms of reducing the maliciousness of some of the things that happen in there, tell us about some of the things that you're achieving there, leveraging such things as the automation, how is that helping you guys to enable the Chromebooks and the BYOD for good? >> Well the automation frees up our time so that we can focus on the policies, the education, the different procedures for the district. This way we're not spending time hitting the keyboard, trying to review our traffic logs. >> You had a session yesterday which you were talking, a breakout session, and you were saying that there were some folks that were so interested in what you we had to say, you had limited time in your session. Give a little bit of an idea of some of the feedback or maybe even people that might be in your similar situation that want to learn from, hey, how did you guys tackle this huge problem? >> They were from a school district in Nebraska and they wanted to see how we were handling and they just became a Fortinet customer and they wanted to see what trials and tribulations we had implementing their equipment, any lessons learned and kind of, we just had a conversation about where we see our programs going. It was nice. >> What about compliance? One of the things that's come up is managing the laws of the land. >> Luckily, I don't have much compliance, right? So we're not PCI, CIPA's pretty much, and FERPA but the only reports that we really have to provide are for CIPA, we'll have to prove that we're doing web filtering. That's where the Fortinet analyzer comes into play. I'm able to just schedule the reports through there. Shows that I'm blocking based on categorization, and we're good. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned over the past couple years in tech and IT to be effective and to do your job, what's the learnings? (laughing) >> It's going to sound weird coming from a security guy but I think it's important to take the risk, right? Accept the risk. Most organizations won't try a piece of equipment live, right? I was the exact opposite, I put every firewall that we were going to try live and pushed our entire network through it. I mean, if it breaks some things, we figured it out but I think that's the only way to get a true test of whether or not it's going to fit your needs. >> One of the things that came up yesterday, I interviewed Andy Bechtolsheim, you know, legend, been called the Rembrandt of chips, Pat Gelsinger called him that down to Arista and other companies. He talked about how NSX has the security wrapped around the application, more around NSX, that's freed up his security teams from handling a lot of the network security which kind of like has been intertwined in the past. Are you seeing that same picture emerge? >> That's why I'm transitioning to that, to get out of the traditional IP base firewall rules. It's not really what it was designed for, it was more for a transport layer. So switching over to the NSX and the BMX, now we're basing it on the application, what it's purpose is. >> What's the impact to you guys? What's that mean for your operations and your benefits for staff, what's the impact? >> It frees us up. During the winter months when we're going to have a snow storm, our server team might have to deploy some more web servers to handle the traffic that's going to come in. Before they would have to reach out to my team, to get us to modify a policy because they have new device coming online, well now they just tag it as a web server and it's automatically in the roles. >> You know I love talking about this topic. I have four kids, two of them are still in high school, two are in college, so it's so funny how they all hacked their report cards because the sandbox was out there for testing the new curriculum so they all get it and they all share it and the school sends out a note, "Well, that's not actually officially updated yet." So the kids are smart, like you said, they're going to get what a sandbox is. They don't know why it's there, they know how to get to it, so you got student elections, all kinds of things that go on in the academic world that have been digitized that are vulnerable, you have to handle that. How do you stay on top, does Fortinet help you there? Or what's the main way to keep the secure access? >> I mean that's why we're going with the VMX, NSX, the micro segmentation, it really takes the effort off of us and allows the appliances to do what they're intended to do. >> That's awesome, well it's a great case study. Any advice for practitioners out there who are in your seat in their world who might be looking at, okay I got to reset, I got to start rethinking things, I got to do more with less, I got to be lean and mean? It's kind of command and control but you got to manage it, you got a lot going on, it's the battlefield of IT is changing. >> Yes. >> So what's your advice? >> Take the risk. (laughing) Try it out. I just recently hired another engineer and on his first day I pretty much told him, "Go ahead and break something, it's alright, "we'll figure it out, we'll fix it." He has his own little lab and I'm like, "Just go mess around and figure it out." >> Play, do some R and D. >> Yeah. >> Kick the tires, yeah, it's the best way to do it. Keith, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, really appreciate it. It's theCUBE live here in Las Vegas, stick with us for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Bill Graham Auditorium in San Francisco. It's the Cube. Covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. Brought to you by Pure Storage. >> Welcome back to Pure Storage Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin with the Cube. I'm with Dave Vellante. We are here in San Francisco at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium which is why we're sporting some concert t-shirts. >> Who. >> The Who and the Clong. >> Roger. Roger Delchi. >> Roger. We are here with the CIO of the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Pure customer, Ben Nathan. Ben, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for having me. So, talk to us about the shool of medicine at UCLA. You are the CIO there, you've been there for about three years. Give us a little bit of the 10,000 foot view of what your organization looks like to support the school of medicine. >> Sure. We're about 170 people. We have changed a lot over the last three years. So, when I got to UCLA there was 25 separate IT organizations, all smaller groups, operating in each individual department. And, they had built their own sets of managed infrastructure, distributed throughout every closet, nook and cranny in the school. We've consolidated all that under one set of service lines, one organization, and that's including consolidating all the systems and applications as well. So, we've brought all those together and now we're additionally running IT for three more health sciences schools at UCLA, nursing, dentistry, and school of public health, Fielding School of Public Health. Like a lot of CIOs, you serve many masters. You got the administration, you got the students, right. You've got the broader constituency. The community, UCLA. Where do you start? What's the quote on quote customer experience that you're trying to achieve? That's a great way to put it. There's really sort of four pillars that we try to serve. The patient being first and foremost. So, for us, everything is built around a great patient experience. And, that means that when we're educating students it's so they can be great providers of patient care. When we're doing research, When we're doing that research in an effort to eradicate disease et cetera. And, when we're doing community outreach it's also around improving health and peoples lives, so, in IT, we try to stay very connected to those missions. I think it's a large part of what drives people to be a part of an organization that's healthcare or that's a provider. That mission is really, really important. So, yes. We're serving all four of those things at once. >> So, you had lots of silos, lots of data, that's all continuing to grow but, this is data that literally life and death decisions can be made on this. Talk to us about the volumes of data, all the different sources that are generating data. People, sensors, things and how did you make this decision to consolidate leveraging Pure Storage as that foundation? >> Yeah, there's and incredible amount of work going on at UCLA. Particularly in their research education and patient care spaces. We had every brand of server in storage that you've never heard of. Things bought at lowest, bitter methods but, the technical data that we had incurred as part of that was enormous. Right, it's unsustainable. It's unsupportable. It's insecure-able. When I got there and we started to think about how do we deal with all of this? We knew we had an opportunity to green field an infrastructure and consolidate everything onto it. That was the first, that was started us down the road that led us to Pure as one of our major storage vendors. I had worked with them before but, they won on their merits, right? We do these very rigorous RFP processes when we buy things. The thing that really, I think, got them the the victory is us is that the deduplication of data got us to something like an eight to one ratio of virtual to physical. So, we get a lot of virtual servers running on relatively small amount of storage. And, that it's encrypted you know, sort of the time, right? There's not like a switch you might flip or something a vendor says they'll do but it >> Always on. >> doesn't really do, it is always on. And, it's critical for us. We're really building a far more secure and manageable set of services and so all the vendors we work with meet that criteria. >> So, is as a CIO, I would imagine you don't want to wake up every day and think of storage. With all due respect to our friends at Pure. >> That's true. >> So, has bringing it in for infrastructure in, like Pure, that prides itself on simplicity, allowed you to do the things that you really want to do and need to do for your organization? >> Yeah. I'll give you a two part answer. I mean one is simply, I think, it's operationally a really great service. I think that it's well designed, and run, and managed. And, we get great use of out it. I think the thing that makes it so that I don't have to think about it is actually, the business model that they have. So, the fact that I know that it's not going to really obsolete on its own, as long as you're like in the support model, you're upgrading the system every few years, changes, you know the, model for me, 'cause I don't have to think about these new, massive capitalization efforts, it's more of a predictable operational costs and that helps me sleep well because I know what we look like over the next few years and I can explain that to my financial organization. >> Just a follow up on that, a large incumbent storage supplier or system vendor might say, "Well, we can make that transparent to you. We can use our financial services to hide that complexity or make a cloud-like rental experience or you know, play financial games to hide that. Why does that not suffice for you? >> Well, I think, first and foremost we sort of want to run our financials on our own and we're pretty anxious about having anyone else in the middle of all that. Number two is it seems to me different in terms of Pure having built that model from the ground up as part of their service offerings. So, I don't think we see that with too many other vendors and I think that obviously there's far less technical than what I had in the previous design but it can still add up if you're not careful about whatever, what server mechanism you have in place, et cetera. >> But, it eliminates the forklift upgrade, right. Even with those financial incentives or tricks, you still got to forklift it and it's a disruption to your operation. >> Yeah, and I'm sure that's true, yeah. >> So, when you guys were back a year and a half or so, maybe two years ago, looking at this consolidation, where were your thoughts in terms of beyond consolidation and looking at being able to harness the power of AI, for example, we heard a lot of AI today already and this need for legacy infrastructures are insufficient to support that. Was that also part of your plan, was not simply to consolidate and bring your (speaks very rapidly) environment unto Pure source but also to leverage a modern platform that can allow you to harness the power of AI? >> Yeah. That was sort of the later phase bonus period that we're starting to enter now. So, after we sort of consolidate and secure everything, now, we can actually do far more interesting things that would've been much more difficult before. And, in terms of Pure, when we had set out to do this we imagined doing a lot of our analytics and AI machine learning kind of cloud only and we tried that. We're doing a lot of really great things in the cloud but not all of it is makes sense in that environment. Either from a cost perspective or from a capabilities perspective. Particularly with what Pure has been announcing lately, I think there's a really good opportunity for us to build high performance computing clusters in our on premise environment that leverage Pure as a potential storage back end. And that's where our really interesting data goes. We can do the analytics or the AI machine learning on the data that's in our electronic medical record or in our genomics workflows or things like that can all flow through a service like that and there's some interesting discoveries that ought to come from it. >> There's a lot of talk at this event about artificial intelligence, machine intelligence, how do you see AI in health care, generally? And specifically, how you're going to apply it? Is it helping doctors with diagnosis? Is it maybe maintaining better compliance? Or, talk about that a little. >> I think there's two things that I can think of off the top of my head. The first is decision support. So this is helping physicians when they're working directly with patients there's only, there's so many systems, so many data sets, so many way to analyze, and yet getting it all in front of them in some kind of real time way so that they can use it effectively is tricky. So, AI, machine learning, have a chance to help us funnel that into something that's immediately useful in the moment. And then the other thing that we're seeing is that most of the research on genomics and the outcomes that have resulted in changes to clinical care are around individualized mutations in a single nucleotide so there's, those are I guess, quote, relatively easy for a researcher to pick out. There's a letter here that is normally a different letter. But, there are other scenarios where there's not a direct easy tie from a single mutation to an outcome. so, like in autism or diabetes, we're not sure what the genetic components are but we think that with AI machine learning, those things will start to identify patterns in genomic sequences that humans aren't finding with their typical approaches and so, we're really excited to see our genomic platforms built up to a point where they have sequences in them to do that sort of analysis and you need big compute, fast storage to do that kind of thing. >> How is it going to help the big compute, fast storage, this modern infrastructure, help whether its genomics or clinicians be able to sort through masses amounts of data to try to find those needles in the haystack 'cause I think the staff this morning that Charlie Jean and Carla mentioned was that half a percent of data in the world is analyzed. So, how would that under the hood infrastructure going to help facilitate your smart folks getting those needles in the haystack just to start really making big impacts? >> UCLA has an incredible faculty, like brilliant researchers, and sometimes what I've found since I've gotten there, the only ingredient that's missing is the platform where they can do some of this stuff. So, some of them are incredibly enterprising, they've built their own platforms for their own analysis. Others we work with they have a lot of data sets they don't have a place to put them where they can properly interrelate them and do, apply their algorithms at scale. So, we've run into people that are trying to do these massive analysis on a laptop or a little computer or whatever it just fails, right? Or it runs forever. So, giving them, providing a way to have the infrastructure that they can run these things is really the ingredient that we're trying to add and so, that's about storage and compute, et cetera. >> How do you see the role of the CIO evolving? We hear a lot of people on the Cube and these conferences talk about digital transformation and the digital CIO, how much of that is permeating your organization and what do you think it means to the CIO world going forward? >> I wish I knew the real answer to that question. I don't know, time will tell. But, I think that certainly we're trying to follow the trends that we see more broadly which is there's a job of keeping the lights on of operations. And you're not really, you shouldn't have a seat at any other table and so those things are quite excellent. >> Table stakes. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly, table stakes. Security, all that stuff. Once, you've got that, you know, my belief is you need to deeply understand the business and find your way into helping to solve problems for it and so, you know, our realm, a lot of that these days is how do we understand the student journey from prior to, from when they maybe want to apply all the way 'til when they go out and become a resident and then a physician. There's a ton of data that's gathered along that way. We got to ask a lot of questions we don't have easy answers to but, if we put the data together properly, we start to, right? On the research side, same sort of idea, right? Where the more we know about the particular clinical outcomes they're trying to achieve or even just basic science research that they're looking into, the better that we can better micro target a solution to them. Whether it's a on prem, private cloud, or public cloud, either one of those can be harnessed for really specific workloads and I think when we start to do that, we've enabled our faculty to do things that have been tougher for them to do before. Once, we understand the business in those ways I think we really start to have an impact at the strategic level, the organization. >> You've got this centralized services model that was a strategic initiative that you put in place. You've got the foundation there that's going to allow you to start opening up other opportunities. I'm curious, in the UCLA system, maybe the UC system, are there other organizations or schools that are looking at what you're doing as a model to maybe replicate across the system? >> I think there's I don't know about a model. I think there's certainly efforts among some to find, to centralize at least some services because of economies to scale or security or all the normal things. With the anticipated, and then anticipating that that could ultimately provide more value once the baseline stuff is out of the way. UC is vast and varied system so there's a lot of amazing things going on in different realms and we're I think, doing more than ever working together and trying to find common solutions to problems. So, we'll see whose model works out. >> Well, Ben. Thanks so much for stopping by the Cube and sharing the impact that your making at the UCLA School of Medicine, leveraging storage and all the different capabilities that that is generating. We thank you for your time. >> Thanks so much for having me. >> We want to thank you for watching the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We are live at Pure Accelerate 2018 in San Francisco. Stick around, we'll be right back with our next guest.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC, and it's ecosystem partners. >> And welcome back to Las Vegas, as thCUBE continues our coverage here of Dell Technologies World 2018. So glad to have you along here for our Day Three coverage. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls. It's now a pleasure to welcome David Comroe with us. David is the Senior Director of Client Technology Services at the Wharton School of Business, at the University of Pennsylvania. David, thanks for being with us. >> No problem. Glad to be here. >> Thank for sharing your time with us. First off let's just talk about, about the scope of your work. Again, you take care of all the obviously IT needs for the largest business school faculty in the world. Right? No pressure on you there. But talk about day to day, those responsibilities. >> As you mentioned my title is Senior Director for Client Technology Services. I'm essentially responsible for providing the support and services to four very distinct user groups that we happen to have at a university. That's of course our wonderful faculty, our staff that make everything happen, our incredible students, and of course our alumni group, which is about 100,000 people strong at this point. Just Wharton alums that are again, very important. Give back to the school. Provide mentorship and job opportunities for our graduates. Again very distinct needs for each of those four groups. We provide a high quality, and all the buzzwords. You know, secure, safe, efficient, highly available services to these groups. That's kind of what I do all day. >> One of the cool things, I love acronyms. Not that this industry doesn't have a few, as you know Stu. But WHOOPPEE. I absolutely love making whoopie. But not what you might think. But walk us through that and what it stands for, and what you did in it. It really was groundbreaking. >> You're putting me on the spot with this one. So WHOOPPEE is the Wharton, let's see if I can get this, Online Ordinal Peer Performance Evaluation Engine. One of our incredible faculty, Pete Fader, came up with this idea. It's no secret that grading is kind of bad. Faculty grading students. There's all kinds of challenges. >> It's tedious. >> Well it's tedious. There's inherit biases when you're, the larger the class. And when you have to grade 80 papers, or 100 papers or 200 papers. It's really hard to keep consistency across when your grading paper one through paper 100 through paper 200. Plus when you start divvying up the work between TA's and different faculty teaching the same class. Again fraught with bias. A number of people, again Pet Fader's idea, to come up with basically an algorithm that helps the grading process. And basically what happens is, is students are grading themselves. What we'll do is we'll give them five papers or five projects to grade. And they don't actually grade. All they have to do is rank it. You know, this is the best one. This is number one. This is the worst one. This is number five. And then there's this magic behind the scenes that that runs in our local infrastructure, in our cloud infrastructure. That basically runs an algorithm. And that algorithm is the secret sauce that some of our statistical geniuses at the Wharton school, of which we have many, came up with. And it has all kinds of cool features. You can say, well this batch of five papers might be harder. I might have the five best papers in the class. That's not fair. They still have to rank one the worst. You know, five. You can't say these two are the best. And this one's third. You actually, the students have to read the paper, and just rank it. I like this one the best. I like second, third, fourth, fifth. The algorithm takes into account difficulty of batches of papers. You could literally have the five best or the five worst papers in the class. And that's still going to provide meaningful data to the algorithm. So when you have 50, 100, 500 batches of five. They all start to figure it out. And the algorithm will actually figure out what the best paper is in the class. And what the maybe again at the Wharton. But not so great, greatest paper in the class. >> But not the worst. Just not so great. Again cause our students are brilliant. It basically goes on the fact that if you do a quality paper. If the algorithm says you're the best. Your weight means more than someone who might not have done such a good job on the paper. And you're considered a better grader. And it's weighted towards the better graders. There's all kinds of really cool stuff in there that we think is going to change... Get rid of some of that bias that I spoke about before. And help provide. And the data we've seen is, frankly the students like doing it. They don't like the additional work involved with it. We're seeing some empirical evidence, and some in person interviews. That they're learning more. They're reading five other student's papers. They're getting five other perspectives. They're saying, hey I didn't think about that. Or even, hey they're all wrong here. My paper was much better than theirs. But again that doesn't necessarily matter when we start running the ranks. And we're getting much better, much better grading, which is hard to quantify, but the folks that are on the academic team that are doing that, have some really great data. With the data. Yup, mm-hm. >> David, one of the themes we keep hearing in this show is about transformation. Is change happening? You're talking about IT, how it's working with the business more and more. Bring us inside university life in general and specifically. You work with one of the ancient eight. How does cutting edge technology fit in with - >> That's really interesting. I do have a couple thoughts on that. My boss has a picture in his office, of a Penn classroom from I think it's like 1908 or 1910. And there's literally a bunch of students sitting around. There's a faculty member standing up. And there's a candle-powered projector, which I didn't know is a thing but it's in the picture, projecting an image onto the wall. From over 100 years ago. What's different about our classrooms today? Everything's the same, except the projector's now in LED. Or a L3D projector. We still got people sitting around the room, standing up. I think what we're seeing now in probably the previous ten years from now and to the next ten years is education's probably going to change more in those 20 years than it has in 2,000 years since Socrates was standing around with a stone tablet or whatever they were doing. Things like globalization, online courses, the MOOC space, where Wharton is huge in the MOOC space. Wharton online programs. Where students can take, not even students, anybody! If you're in China or Africa or South America. You can take an introduction to Wharton, introduction to marketing class from a Wharton professor for free. I mean we're a business school. We sell some of that content as well. But you can get verified certificates. We're seeing a lot of stuff change. The students today expect more. We can get into, we won't though, we can get into the whole millennial issue and short attention span and all that kind of stuff. Students today expect their faculty to be technology savvy. They expect content to be online. They expect to use devices. The expect to use... We got tablets, and laptops and phones. They want to be able to consume this content on multiple devices. We're seeing significant transformations in education. Which is, hasn't necessarily changed much in 2,000 years. Or even 200 years, right? So there's that. Speaking specifically about Wharton, one of the things I really thought is interesting, is I've been there 13 years now. When I first started working there, I'm going to make some generalizations here, a lot of our student wanted to go work in iBanking. They wanted to go work for the big banks. They wanted to go work for Goldman Sachs and things like that. In the last five, seven, ten years ago. They wanted to create their own company. Start up their own company. Be entrepreneurial. Have their app. Have their their big idea. Start the next whatever dot com. And be successful that way. Now in the last two or three, four years. We're seeing a lot of our students analytics. We're putting analytics with everything. Companies, businesses, organizations, no matter what you are, we have huge amounts of data available. How can we make meaningful decisions based on that data? Our dean. I guess I can't call him our new dean. He's been there three or four years at this point. Really wants to position Wharton as the analytics school. Every company in the world is trying to hire these kinds of people. There just frankly aren't enough of them out there. The thing we're trying to teach our students is, or one of the many things, is how to analyze data. How to make meaningful decisions based on that data. And of course when you have more data, you need more storage. You need more infrastructure. You need more processing. All the stuff that you know, Dell and Nutanix are providing us, with their hyper convergence infrastructure. Their cloud offerings. Whether private cloud, public cloud, hybrid cloud. All that kind of stuff is... Positioning us as the analytics school requires a significant amount of technology on the backend. And again working with our trusted partners like Dell and Nutanix we can provide that seamlessly in the backend. They don't necessarily know, is it in our data center? Is it in the cloud? And they don't care. They shouldn't care. But as they're collecting huge amounts of data, running these reports, and creating it, and going back to creating these algorithms that do incredible things. And these secret sauces. We need the infrastructure to run that kind of stuff. That's I think one of the greatest things that Wharton Computing provides the Wharton School of Business, and their business, which is creating and disseminating knowledge. >> David, I think you've encapsulated something that I've been hearing from lot's of users over the last year or so. The vendors sometimes, it's private, it's hybrid, it's public. From the user standpoint it's like, no well we have a cloud strategy that we're working on. Can you bring us inside a little bit? How did you get to where you are today? How do you choose who you're partnering with? What leads to some of those decisions? >> I love the word partner. I hate the word vendor. One of the great things about working at Wharton is, is we get to have these awesome partners. I want someone... When we're going to make an IT spend, we want someone who cares about our business. We don't want somebody who just, will come in, give you a dog and pony show, write us a check. And when you want more stuff call us. We want folks that are going to provide the support. You know, pre-sales during installation. Post-sales when they're coming out with new features. We want them to be invested in what we do. I can truly say that Nutanix is a fantastic partner of ours. Dell-Nutanix are great partners. Dell is a great partner of Wharton and Penn as well. That's what we really look for, is someone who is willing to invest their time, their smart people. Tell us about the new features and functionality that are coming out. Call on us and say, hey how are thing going? It's not just the little things. But those little things really mean a lot to us as we're picking an IT partner. Because when you're working for the best business school in the world. Having the best students, the brightest faculty, the best, hardest working staff. We want to provide them a very, very high quality IT support. We need high quality partners. And not just vendors who care about the transaction. That's really the bottom line for us. When we're choosing our partners. >> When you were talking about analytics, and Wharton being the school of data analytics. What are your measuring sticks? In terms of what are you looking at? You're talking about four very separate groups of constituencies. What are you doing to evaluate your performance? And what's critical? >> I think it all comes down to, what do our business units think about us? We're a service organization. Almost all IT shops are. If the business units aren't successful, they don't need an IT department. If we're not providing them high quality IT services, we're not going to get the best faculty. We're not going to get the brightest students. We're not going to get the alumni engagement. They want to be wowed by their IT support. That's a big part of my job, is providing that quality of support. Helping train. Technology breaks, right? How do you deal with the problem? Nobody runs at rock solid 100% infrastructure. Murphy's Law always comes into play. Problems always happen. How do you deal with the cracks in the armor as they come off? I think that's what our business units want. I think we're fortunate that we're computing. Our team, our staff, our CIO. My colleagues, my peers, my team. Our team, right? They're very well thought of, hopefully, by our clients. And that's how we're measured is by their success. We want to help them, empower them to do their job at the highest level. We are playing in pretty rare air, when it comes to the faculty, staff, students and alumni, that we attract to Penn and Wharton. We want to keep doing that. One of the things I love best, and I tell our wonderful faculty when we meet with them, is don't tell me we did a great job. Here's what I want you to tell me. I want you to say, three years ago I was at, I'm not going to name drop schools, but I was at this school and I asked them to do this thing, that you said, sure, no problem to. And they couldn't do it, wouldn't do it, didn't have the ability, the infrastructure in place to do that. But you guys with a smile on your face just made it happen. Stuff like WHOOPPEE. Stuff like the analytics stuff. All the, tying it back to why we're here today, is our partners and our technology partners that help us provide scalable, flexible solutions. That's how we're measured. >> Higher learning. >> Higher learning, absolutely. >> David, thanks for being with us. >> No problem, it was great. >> David Comroe from the Wharton School of Business, University of Pennsylvania. Back with more live coverage here from Dell Technologies World 2018. Right after this break. You're watching theCUBE.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCube covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here in Silicon Valley at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. We're here for Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm John Furrier with my cohost Lauren Cooney. Our next guest is Sylvain Kalache, who's the co-founder of Holberton School. In the news today for big venture funding. Eight and a half million dollars, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on, we've had many conversations with some of the folks you work with at your place there. Really great mission, CloudNow Awards have been on Open Source Summit. You guys have a very special mission, certainly recognized with some good funding, congratulations, but take a minute to explain the mission of your school. >> Yes, so the mission of the school is to provide high quality education to the most. I think that's something that is very tough in the US for American people is that there is high quality education and you know, like Ivy League are, like, obviously doing a great job, but the issue with that is that it's, like, limited to an elite. But a fraction of American people can access high quality education, and so when you look at the student debt, you know, 1.4 trillion dollar, like, something is wrong with that, right? >> John: Yeah. >> And so we want to be a part of the solution and that's why we created Holberton School. >> And the interesting thing, too, about it is that what I liked about your mission, too, is that you're very transparent about what you do and... But a lot of the jobs are skills that not a lot of people have, so it's a first time skill. So, you know, as people look to hire, say, a data scientist or someone in AI or someone in machine learning or anything in tech, for instance, no one really has that many years of experience, so there's an opportunity to level up for someone who might not have gone to a fancy school. >> Exactly, so today there is more than half a million unfilled jobs that require tech skills in the US, right. And according to the previous white house CTO, it's going to grow to 1.4 million in the next decade, right. And universities are only going to train 400,000. So, there is a gap of a million skilled people within the next 10 years for software engineering type of job, right. So, my co-founder, with Julie and Bobby, we used to be head of marketing and community and I used to work for LinkedIn, would, you know, interview a lot of people who wanted to, you know, work for Docker and LinkedIn and one of the issue we saw is that a lot of out of colleges candidates will not be ready to take on a job. They were not ready. You could see they were smarter than you think but you would need to train them for six months or a year to get them ready to take on a job. >> What makes you different, what are you guys doing that's working? Can you explain the model? >> Yeah so in regular education, we bring you the knowledge right, through a lecture to share, we lecture you right. And two weeks down the road, we give you the exam to see if you memorized, you know, like the solution kind of, right? At Holberton, we've flipped the education. We give students the exam through a project, and they have to go, acquire the knowledge, learn the tool that they need to solve the thing, right. Which is very much what we do in the workplace, right. My manager at LinkedIn would coach me and say hey Sylvain you need to build this, you need to fix that, right. And then I'm paid to like find the best solution, right. So we train our students the same way. And our students come from all walks of life. Right out of high school, some started college didn't finish, some used to be barista, poker player, guitar player, artist, teacher, and some other place, right. They come with no software engineering knowledge, and we train them from zero. For two things, first one to learn a craft that's in demand in today's software engineering. So that they can find a job you know after graduation. And second to earn or to learn, to develop problem solving skills, critical thinking. So that they can continue to grow even after graduation and continue to learn after that, right. >> Is there a requirement? >> The requirement is that you have to be over 18 years old. That's it. >> John: That's it. >> That's it. >> And what does it cost? >> So the cost is none, until you find a job, right. >> Lauren: Until you find a job. And then what happens? >> So what happens, if you find a job that is over 40,000 dollar per year, then you contribute back to the school with a percentage of your salary. So we align the school success with student success. And the final contribution that students make to the school is used to finance the next generation of students. >> Lauren: Great. >> So that, you know, an organic circle where, the more students are successful through them, the more we can train other students. >> And you're investing in the outcome of the students. >> Exactly. We are investing in our students worthy of this school. But obviously we're are like investing in their success. >> Lauren: That's great >> That's the only way for us to succeed. >> Well you're certainly optimized for success. Because you're motivated to do it right. Right, so. This is interesting. >> We are, and when we say we, it's like the Holberton staff, but also the Holberton community. Which is composed of more than 150 mentors. Who are professionals in the tech industry. And they are here for two things. To guide students to enter the tech industry. They come to the school, share their experiences. What it's like to work for a startup. What it's like to work for a big company. What it's like to be a woman in tech, right. And also, they guide us on the curriculum, right. To make sure that what is being taught, like is always relevant. And that's where students find jobs in several companies including Tesla, Apple, NASA, LinkedIn, you name it. So they're competing with Ivy League type of talent. >> John: Yeah, yeah. >> But they are definitely in the type of demographic that you really want... >> And they actually might win too, because they have the street smarts. And they get the hands on skills. Okay, so quick question, so. Is it the for-profit? Or non-profit? >> Sylvain: It's for-profit. >> Okay, so it's for-profit. But it's got a mission driven initiative. >> Sylvain: Yes. >> Tied to a profit objective. So you just raise some funding. How did that go? Is that use of funds to expand the scope? Or student body? I'm sure there's some constraints, in terms of, how much you can handle in terms of student body. Locations around the world. What is there an expansion strategy? Obviously you got some funding. >> Sylvain: Yes. >> What are you going to do with it? >> Yeah, so, we are a San Francisco based crew. We started three years ago with our first cohort of solid students. And with the location we had, we could train 100 students a year. Right. That's good but, in the grand scheme of things, it's not a lot. >> John: It's a prototype. >> It's a prototype. Exactly. So now that we have the students working for EnVideo, Dropbox, Apple, and like you know, the Google of the world. Alright, okay. Now we need to scale up and we move to a new location, that's seven times bigger. Where we'll be able to train 500 students per year, which... Because it's a two year program, we'd be a campus of 1000 students. Right. And to give you an idea of the scale, the largest University for software students, in the US is training 700 students a year. So we are like quickly coming up, as one of the largest trainer of 20,000 students. >> That's phenomenal. What's the curriculum? Is it mostly computer science? Is it mostly tech? I mean obviously you have the... I see any of you come in. But you do have women in tech. And you have a under represented minority kind of component, which is great. But it's open to anyone. >> It's open to anyone over 18. The application process is blind and fully automated. So there is no, human selection. >> John: No discrimination of any kind. >> No discrimination, and... >> How do you cut people off? Is it random? >> It's not random. >> And not random. I mean like, if you have like 500 spots. >> Yah. >> And you have 1000 applicants. >> Yah. >> So do you sort it? Is it like... >> Right. >> You get the lottery? I mean, is it... >> No, so there is only three percent of student who start the application process who make it. >> Okay, got it. >> And... >> So there's a selection criteria. >> There is a selection criteria. It's hard to get in. It's mostly based on motivation and talent. And by talent we mean, this ability to strive in this type of environment. Where you learn by doing and you learn by collaborating with your peers. Which is something that not everybody, you know, can do. >> So you identify success criteria, with what you think might be aligned with the culture of the curriculum. >> Yah, we believe that grit, is you know, a big element in people's success. And I think there is a lot of American people with grit. But they're born in the wrong zip code. They didn't have the right family, you know, who could support them. And to us, we don't want to select people because of their past. We want to select people because of who they are. Ultimately the application process is doing this for us. In terms of numbers, so far it's brought 35 percent woman. 50 percent of our students aren't white. And the age goes from anywhere from 17 to 56. So it's like very diverse crowd of students. That makes this community really amazing. >> Lauren: Yah. Coming from someone who paid for their own college, and then had to pay it all back... (laughing) I would have loved to have this around when I was going to school.6 >> John: And you still pay the pack. It's like you wanted it upfront for free. So what percentage of the salary is it? I mean, can you talk about numbers or... >> Yah. >> Cause I mean, cause that's always some people want to know the math in advance. >> Absolutely, absolutely. So it's a 17 percent of your income, for the first three years of employment, if you find a job that's over 40,000. So if you don't find a job then, you don't pay anything. >> John: And direct deposit probably, mostly. Do they have to be obligated to pay you? Do they usually do... direct deposit? >> Sylvain: Yah. We partner with third parties that's taking care of this. And it's basically like a monthly, you know, deposit. >> So it's automated for this candidates, for the students. >> Sylvain: It's automated, yah. >> Lauren: And do you do partnerships in any way? So like, you know, woman that are re-entering the work force. Or, you know... things along those lines. There's a lot of different programs out there that support. You know... >> Sylvain: Absolutely. So we are partnering with a lot of organizations. >> Lauren: Okay. >> We want to inspire... And the represented, you know like, demographic to, believe that they can become software engineer. They can be part of that, right. And so we partner... One of them is a clan now, with Justine Mitchell. >> Lauren: I won an award, yah. (Lauren laughing) >> And she was on theCube... >> Lauren: Yah. She's great. >> John: We cover their events. >> So with Justine we worked on fundraising, for women, for living state. And from Google extension... And Schelling, and yeah, we are going to help more students to get in the program. And also, one thing that we are doing is that we have a wall of trustees, where actually, Justine is sitting. We also have the singer, grammy award winner, Neyo. Who help's us to make sure we are doing everything we can, to communicate to this minority, right. And as you say, like the kid in the hood will come up with a different set of problems, and different set of ideas on how to build product and solve issues. And not only having a diverse work force is socially good. But it also makes sense business wise. Because your customer base is diverse by definition, right. >> John: Yah, I mean you need to have the algorithms. So the algorithms are being written by only a small percentage of the population. >> Sylvain: Yah, yah. They're inherently bias. >> Sylvain: They are. >> So we need to have that diversity, and plus diversity brings more unique perspectives. It might slow things down a bit. But you're going to get a much more broader representation. >> Sylvain: It is, and... >> And we heard with that in front with Mark Zuckerberg in front of senate yesterday. (Sylvain laughing) Questions like, you know... There's biases in there. Who's writing the algorithms? >> Yah, it's became even worse with AIM mission learning. If you feed this intelligence, that I've said is bias or discriminative, then AI will behave, like, with discrimination. >> And they're hidden bias so people might not even know that their biases is builtin. >> So it's terrible. I've arranged a number of money to take in the industry. In the valley's, 12 percent. So we really... and it's also bad for, like you know, authenticity. But also, I would say, none visual diversity, right. Like, what zip code? What background? What academic background do you come from? >> Yah. I mean it's a group thinking, mentality. "Oh we went to Harvard", "Oh you're instantly funded." >> Exactly. >> I mean that was the old way. The new way is the new generation. You do amazing work, we applaud your mission and success. We think this is the model, in fact, I'm even more aggressive, that you should get tax-deductions for contributing your time to the school. And the students should get a tax-deduction off the payment. This is a very skilled model. Congratulations. You should propose that. Get Mark Zuckerberg's in and Washington, DC. >> You should send to us. (laughing) >> Send some text messages, while you're there change some regulations. Hey, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you >> Holbertonschool.com. Check it out. Great mission, changing the education paradigm. Bringing a new paradigm for learning. Really filling the gap in the jobs front, across the world. It's theCube of course doing our part. Sharing it with you. Back with more live coverage here at Cisco DevNet Create, at the Computer History Museum. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Fortinet Acclerate 18. Brought to you by Fortinet. (upbeat techno music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of Fortinet's Accelerate 2018. I'm Lisa Martin joined by my cohost, Peter Burris. And we're excited to be joined by a Fortinet customer, Troy Miller the Director of Technical Resources from Clark County School District. Troy welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Lisa: So, you're local. You're in the Vegas area. Tell us a little bit about Clark County, I noticed some impressive numbers of size, and about your role. >> Clark County School District we service about 320,000 students a day, 41,000 employees. It's the entire county which, last I heard, was about the size of Rhode Island. So, basically, that's geographically large as well. My role in the district as Director of Technical Resources. We bring in 80 gigs of internet each day for all those people to consume. And we're responsible for the Edge security. So, we don't get down to the desktop yet but we just make sure they have a successful and reliable internet. >> So, 320,000 students and 41,000 employees. How many devices is that connecting to the network? Or do you have any idea? >> Even ones that were just district-owned might be closer to 420,000 probably, if you count all the labs. And then another everyone brings in their own one or two or three devices with them. Their phone, their iPad, their laptop. So, there's not an exact count but I'm guessing well over 450,000 probably. >> And you've been with Clark Country for awhile and you've been in education for awhile. Talk to us about the technology evolution that you've seen take place. The opportunities that that gives educators and students we well as the opportunities that it provides on the security side that you have to combat. >> Yeah, a long time ago, I've taught for four years from, I think it was '93 to '97, and I got into the department I'm in now. But back then it was one computer that a teacher didn't know how to use and rarely turned on to now they're using, whether it be smart boards, giving out iPads, Chromebooks, and so on. Every kid's connected and it's important. We're now a Google school district. So, Google Classroom using Google sites and so on. And so, it's important. And the evolution of that is just that when you have a reliable internet, and so Fortinet has definitely increased our stature in that. Day to day instruction can take place, not interrupt them. Cause if they lose their internet for two minutes we've deprived these students for all kinds of education. It's important and now everything is reliant upon it. Even our student management system, our ERP. All that stuff is now, some hosted internationally some hosted externally. So, security is a very important part of that. >> And when you think about the role that you play, you have a specific role within the school district. How does the ability to use a Fortinet-like product inside your role impact your ability to collaborate and coordinate with others in the school district to make sure that everything is running seamlessly? >> Yeah, that's important is that for us using the Fortinets that we have, it was important to be able to get better insight. I'm excited about the stuff in the conference this year to really improve upon that. But to be able to properly secure those say VPN connections going out to outside services or to better serve the students in the schools or other business transactions that take place. So, it's important on that. And then we can see if something's starting to break down somewhat where to go. And again, our district's pretty separated. It's siloed a bit. And so, it's important we know which department to go to if we're seeing issues with certain things. >> Now, local government's are notoriously difficult to work with for some technology vendors. How has it been for Clark County working with members of the Fortinet ecosystem. Because security is obviously an increasingly important feature of, well, virtually everything, but including local municipalities. >> Right. And Fortinet's been awesome. We worked with them through our managed service proprietor, Mosaic451. So, when we moved towards Fortinet just a year and a half ago, that made it a very seamless move because they had the expertise that we didn't at the time. We were brand new to the Fortinet platform. They brought in people from all over to help out with that to either install it, to set up the policies and so on. So, yeah, working with municipalities is difficult. Working for one's even more difficult. But Fortinet has made that very easy. >> What was the catalyst for bringing on Fortinet in terms of some of the challenges that you guys have with your firewalls? Was their any sort of one event or type of events that really catalyzed, hey, we're got to transform here? >> Yeah, there was a series of events actually. About a year and a half ago, we were undergoing about daily one hour, two hour DDoS attacks, fragmented UDP attacks. And our previous firewall vendors they couldn't, one they couldn't diagnose it. And two even once they did, it couldn't handle it. We were basically firewalling our firewall with our EdgeRouter. And so, that was when I said something has got to change. And that's when I contacted Mosaic451 and said, I need help. I can't be doing this every day cause the staff, obviously, were upset. And so was I. And so, Fortinet actually back then, our first involvement with Fortinet, they sent out two chassis and said, "Here. Try them out. See if this will stop the attack. We think it will." And we got them going within a few days and sure enough, it did. And so that told me I needed to make a move. It took, obviously, some budget trapeze acts to get that done. But within six months we were then on Fortinet. And again, once we got the equipment back everyone was able to help out and get us set up. We're unique in what we had and moving our policies and so on. So, they've been integral in that. >> So, impact perspective. It sounds like you went from these daily DDoS attacks to zero? >> Troy: Yeah. >> In how short of a time period? >> They stopped on their own beginning of January of that year. But we haven't had one at all since then. Or we've had small ones but the Fortinets handled them without a problem. They barely bumped them, you know. >> So, pretty big impact there that you've been able to make? >> Yeah, we went from-- >> Lisa: Pretty quickly. >> Yeah, yeah it was six months before we finally made the Fortinet decision. And we were fortunate we didn't have to go through an RFP process on that. Because that would have taken forever, and I didn't want to do that. And so, I already said we did our RFP. This one doesn't work. We know this other one doesn't work. So, guess what's left? So, that's the way we ended up with Fortinet. And I said we're very happy with them so far. >> In terms of some of the announcements that they have made today, around utilizing AI technology. They've also talked about their Fabric-Ready Partner Program. You've talked about a partner there. What are some of the things that excite you about what you've heard from them today? Does that give you reassurance that not only did we make the right decision but this is something that's going to help us as we evolve and as security threats naturally evolve and grow as well that you feel like you have a good foundation on the security side. >> Yeah, precisely. I'm very excited from what I saw. And you know, there's things, education, especially in this state, is extremely underfunded. So, I'd love to go out and just say, "Oh, I'd like to buy this. I'd like to buy that." We're up and running with the security fabric. And I'm excited about it. But what I'm really excited is the opportunity to grow. We can really assume some progress with that. And so, while I can't take full advantage of it or even go to the FortiOS 6 probably anytime soon. But we will be able to start laying the groundwork, and I can plan out to start filling off those check boxes in that security fabric, and start providing a better more secure internet for what I'm responsible for, what I can consume. >> So, education like everything else is changing. What are the set of options that become more available to you to Clark County School District as a consequence of bringing in a new security fabric that's capable of accommodating a little more complexity, a little bit more automation? >> Well, yes, a little bit of all that. For us, what I'm excited about with the Fortinet is that one, we've got something robust that's going to last us for five to seven years. Those will last even beyond our 80 gigs we're using now if we need to go beyond that before I retire. But the exciting part of that is, like I said, by adding in those different security fabric pieces I think we'll be able to improve bit by bit. And I know while they're going to improve them even more by the time we finally get there. So, that's exciting. >> You talked about ... I'd like you to elaborate a little bit more on your organization. It sounds, I don't want to say fragmented, but there's different centers. How has, I should say, what you guys have been able to achieve by bringing Fortinet in in terms of we talked about this dramatic reduction or elimination of DDoS. Are you able to leverage that as sort of a best practice within the school district. Do you see opportunities that this Fortinet partnership can have for you in that respect? >> It gives us some validity. It shows that it did make a difference. We didn't just spend some money on it no reason. Yeah, because of its being siloed, what the Fortinets will give us now is we can know exactly which department to send certain tickets to. What we see whether it's to be malware or something pinging out that shouldn't. We can better address where it's coming from and what to do with it. And again, Mosaic is our sock. So, working with them, working with Fortinet we've been able to improve our response to minor incidents as they happen. >> Are there other natural issues that the County of Las Vegas deals with that makes Fortinet especially relevant? I mean, obviously, great distances. But you know, you've got large mountains surrounding here. It's a very dry environment. Are you finding that there's just things about the location that makes Fortinet that much better choice? >> I don't really think environmental ... Pretty much what makes this the best choice is not really where we are but just what we do. Like I said, the internet comes to us, and then we kind of spray it out from there. And so, that availability and reliability is what's important. Sort of where we are doesn't quite matter. But it is the ability to be able to service the customers. >> So, we kind of look at the security transformation that you're on. You've talked to us about some of the achievements that you've made so far in the first year. What are some of things throughout the rest of 2018 that your looking forward to enabling your environment with your Fortinet partnership? >> Some of the things I'm excited about there is, like you had mentioned before the AI part of that. That I'm really excited to hopefully implement. That just takes some ... I can use the eyes I have. I only have four security people basically for that organization. Two of them from Mosaic, two of my own people. And so, if I can have those people addressing bigger concerns than malware or stuff like that. And VAI can better handle that, so instead of digging through logs, we can just, there it is, block it or it's already blocked. That would save us. And I could use that talent for more serious items. We already completed our Edge redesign the networks. Now, we're not redundant on that. We're working on our internal network. So, if we can spend more time making those things more robust to then take advantage of the security fabric as we're able to take advantage of it then that's all the better. >> In most enterprises, there's a partnership that has to be established between security architecture, security operations, the business, and especially the employees. Employees have to take an active roll to successfully do security. Kids and schools are not necessarily well known for having consistent behaviors. How has that affected your environment? And what can enterprises learn as they think about having to serve increasingly unruly customers in their markets? >> Yeah, that's one of the things I'm just starting to dip my toe in to plan for next year is more of an education for it but then holding them accountable for that education. Yeah, I don't know which is worse, the teachers or the students. (Peter laughs) I'm guessing the teachers. (Lisa laughs) They'll click on anything they see. So, it's important to educate them first before I start rolling out some efficient testing on them and so on. But we have to start doing that because otherwise it doesn't matter if something comes in or they get it off their tablet. Now, they've infected the internal and it didn't even get to us, right? And so, it's important that education is important. We're going to start trying to hold them accountable for it. But that's a huge challenge where I'm at. That's like climbing Everest there. >> So, is Fortinet going to help? I think it will. Fortinet's going to be able to help for us to be able to have that insight on what's still working, what's not. We're still seeing these things. >> And also recognizing patterns and seeing what people tend to do wrong will probably help you pinpoint what you need to, that partnership. What the user needs to take more responsibility for. >> Right and that's the thing. It better identifies those issues. You see where they've improved or what still needs to be worked on. >> Peter: Great. >> Well, congratulation on what you've achieved so far. >> Oh, thank you. >> And thank you so much for sharing your success story with us. You're on a journey, and we wish you continuing success with that. >> Thank you. >> For my cohost, Peter Burris, I'm Lisa Martin. You've been watching theCUBE's coverage of Fortinet Accelerate 2018. We'll be right back after a short break. (upbeat techno music)

>> I'm Lisa Martin on the ground with The Cube. We're at Google for the sixth annual Top Women in Cloud Awards with CloudNOW. Very excited to be joined by one of their new partners from the Holberton School, Kristin Loyd. You are a scholarship recipient at Holberton. >> Yes, I am. >> Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. >> It's great to have you here. You have a really interesting background. I want to talk a little bit about the Holberton School, but tell us about your career path to getting into education and software engineering. Were you always a kid interested in technology or was this sort of a zigzaggy path to technology. >> Yeah, it was definitely a little bit more zigzaggy. Growing up, my dad was always into video games and I got to take apart VHSs, but I never really got into it. I just wanted to learn a little bit about everything. So because of that, I went to school to be a teacher, was a student teacher, decided, "Oh, this is a little bit "more than I expected," didn't know what to do. I fell into the financial industry as an assistant there. I was learning a ton, but it wasn't really my passion. I started hanging out with the IT guy there and asking him questions about how our systems worked and decided oh my gosh, maybe this is what I want to do. Fell into Holberton, and I've loved it, and I'm super advocate for it, and I'm very excited to be here. >> That's awesome. So you went and got a four-year degree and then said "You know what, not quite my passion," which is really ... Congratulations on feeling that and going "You know what, I'm going to make a change here." How did you hear about Holberton School? It's a pretty new school, right? >> Yes. >> With a pretty revolutionary approach to helping and assisting with tuition and that sort of thing. What was it about Holberton that attracted you? >> So me being a former future educator, I was really into the model of project and peer learning education, so there's no lectures, there's no formal books to read, but we have access to the internet and Google, and we have access to our library at the school, and we really just learn by doing projects and helping each other. One of my favorite parts about being at the school is, even within my own cohort, there's different levels of knowledge, so I'm always going to be able to help somebody, and somebody's always going to be able to help me. >> It sounds very collaborative ... >> Yes. >> Which it facilitates your learning because you're probably meeting different people that, like you said, are at different levels, and that's a really interesting ... Compare that to your four-year degree in terms of the collaboration. How similar or dissimilar is it? >> So in my four-year education, I still had a cohort model. Being an educator, there was some of use who wanted to do that, right? So we had a lot of classes together, but that was more about individualistic learning. You read the text, you go and you talk about it, and then like bing, bam, boom, okay you know how to teach children now. And that was great for what I was going to be doing. But I learn better as doing projects and having the context of what we're working with and why we're doing things a certain way. And that's really spurred me to want to continue learning in my entire career. >> So you just finished your first year? >> Kristin: Yes. >> So tell me about year two and what you're thinking long-term job wise. >> So first I get to go out and either get an internship or an entry-level position, so I'm looking into doing that now. And then year two, there is one of three tracks you can choose from, so there's low-level, web stack debugging, a couple other tracks are available to students, and so what that is is you go really in depth and have this specialization part. The first year is you can code now, you know C and Python. You can do debugging, right? But specialization years, you go very deep in these concepts and you're able to work in an even smaller cohort and just really dig deep and get that knowledge. >> This last question as we wrap up here, we're at the CloudNOW sixth annual Top Women in Cloud Award event. Tell me a little bit about CloudNOW and what maybe inspires you down the road as you launch you tech career as a female in technology. >> Something that really hit home for me today actually was the diversity and inclusion panel that happened today, and something that Rebecca W said was about being a change maker and being a change agent and having that positive energy going forward because the way you can combat some of these discriminatory remarks or slights is that being this person that can do it and just says, "Okay, well maybe you "think that, but I'm going to show you and prove you "that I'm here, and I'm going to do it," and I think that's the best kind of energy to bring into that, and I'm looking forward to doing that. And also something that was said today was being here at the event, we have a responsibility to represent and to mentor others, and I really take that to heart. So I'm excited to be able to bring maybe some of my knowledge I got here today back to my classmates. >> And continue that collaboration. >> Yes Well, I think you've got great energy, and I know someday you're going to a mentor to a lot of people. Kristen, thank you so much for joining us on The Cube, and we wish you the best of luck finishing out Holberton, and I'm sure we'll see you back on The Cube when you're a technology leader in the near future. >> I would love to. Thank you so much for having me. >> Absolutely. Thank you for watching. I'm Lisa Martin, on the ground with The Cube at Google. Stick around, we'll be right back. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Los Angeles it's The Cube covering Open Source Summit North America 2017. Brought to you by the Lennox Foundation and Red Hat. >> Welcome back, everyone. Live in Los Angeles for The Cube's exclusive coverage of the Open Source Summit North America. I'm John Furrier, your host, with my co-host, Stu Miniman. Our next guest is Elaine Yeung, @egsy on Twitter, check her out. Student at Holberton School? >> At Holberton School. >> Holberton School. >> And that's in San Francisco? >> I'm like reffing the school right here. (laughs) >> Looking good. You look great, so. Open Source is a new generation. It's going to go from 64 million libraries to 400 million by 2026. New developers are coming in. It's a whole new vibe. >> Elaine: Right. >> What's your take on this, looking at this industry right now? Looking at all this old, the old guard, the new guard's coming in, a lot of cool things happening. Apple's new ARKit was announced today. You saw VR and ARs booming, multimedia. >> Elaine: Got that newer home button. Right, like I-- >> It's just killer stuff happening. >> Stu: (laughs) >> I mean, one of the reason why I wanted to go into tech, and this is why I, like, when I told them that I applied to Holberton School, was that I really think at whatever next social revolution we have, technology is going to be somehow interval to it. It's probably not even, like, an existing technology right now. And, as someone who's just, like, social justice-minded, I wanted to be able to contribute in that way, so. >> John: Yeah. >> And develop a skillset that way. >> Well, we saw the keynote, Christine Corbett Moran, was talking really hardcore about code driving culture. This is happening. >> Elaine: Right. So this is not, like, you know, maybe going to happen, we're starting to see it. We're starting to see the culture being shaped by code. And notions of ruling classes and elites potentially becoming democratized 100% because now software, the guys and gals doing it are acting on it and they have a mindset-- >> Elaine: Right. >> That come from a community. So this is interesting dynamic. As you look at that, do you think that's closer to reality? Where in your mind's eye do you see it? 'Cause you're in the front lines. You're young, a student, you're immersed in that, in all the action. I wish I was in your position and all these great AI libraries. You got TensorFlow from Google, you have all this goodness-- >> Elaine: Right. >> Kind of coming in, I mean-- >> So you're, so let me make sure I am hearing your question right. So, you're asking, like, how do I feel about the democratization of, like, educ-- >> John: Yeah, yeah. Do you feel it? Are you there? Is it happening faster? >> Well, I mean, things are happening faster. I mean, I didn't have any idea of, like, how to use a terminal before January. I didn't know, like, I didn't know my way around Lennox or GitHub, or how to push a commit, (laughs) until I started at Holberton School, so. In that sense, I'm actually experiencing this democratization of-- >> John: Yeah. >> Of education. The whole, like, reason I'm able to go to this school is because they actually invest in the students first, and we don't have to pay tuition when we enroll. It's only after we are hired or actually, until we have a job, and then we do an income-share agreement. So, like, it's really-- >> John: That's cool. >> It's really cool to have, like, a school where they're basically saying, like, "We trust in the education that we're going to give you "so strongly that you're not going to pay up front. >> John: Yeah. >> "Because we know you're going to get a solid job and "you'll pay us at that point-- >> John: Takes a lot of pressure off, too. >> Yeah. >> John: 'Cause then you don't have to worry about that overhang. >> Exactly! I wrote about that in my essay as well. Yeah, just, like because who wants to, like, worry about student debt, like, while you're studying? So, now I can fully focus on learning C, learning Python (laughs) (mumbles) and stuff. >> Alright, what's the coolest thing that you've done, that's cool, that you've gotten, like, motivated on 'cause you're getting your hands dirty, you get the addiction. >> Stu: (laughs) >> Take us through the day in the life of like, "Wow, this is a killer." >> Elaine: I don't know. Normally, (laughs) I'm just kind of a cool person, so I feel like everything I-- no, no. (laughs) >> John: That's a good, that's the best answer we heard. >> (laughs) Okay, so we had a battle, a rap battle, at my school of programming languages. And so, I wrote a rap about Bash scripts and (laughs) that is somewhere on the internet. And, I'm pretty sure that's, like, one of the coolest things. And actually, coming out here, one of my school leaders, Sylvain, he told me, he was like, "You should actually put that, "like, pretty, like, front and center on your "like, LinkedIn." Or whatever, my profile. And what was cool, was when I meet Linus yesterday, someone who had seen my rap was there and it's almost like it was, like, set up because he was like, "Oh, are you the one "that was rapping Bash?" And, I was like, "Well, why yes, that was me." (laughs) >> John: (laughs) >> And then Linus said it was like, what did he say? He was like, "Oh, that's like Weird Al level." Like, just the fact that I would make up a rap about Bash Scripts. (laughs) >> John: That's so cool. So, is that on your Twitter handle? Can we find that on your Twitter handle? >> Yes, you can. I will-- >> Okay, E-G-S-Y. >> Yes. >> So, Elaine, you won an award to be able to come to this show. What's your take been on the show so far? What was exciting about you? And, what's your experience been so far? >> To come to the Summit. >> Stu: Yeah. >> Well, so, when I was in education as a dean, we did a lot of backwards planning. And so, I think for me, like, that's just sort of (claps hands). I was looking into the future, and I knew that in October I would need to, like, start looking for an internship. And so, one of my hopes coming out here was that I would be able to expand my network. And so, like that has been already, like that has happened like more than I even expected in terms of being able to meet new people, come out here and just, like, learn new things, but also just like hear from all these, everyone's experience in the industry. Everyone's been just super awesome (laughs) and super positive here. >> Yeah. We usually find, especially at the Open Source shows, almost everyone's hiring. You know, there's huge demand for software developers. Maybe tell us a little bit about Holberton school, you know, and how they're helping, you know, ramp people up and be ready for kind of this world? >> Yeah. So, it's a two-year higher education alternative, and it is nine months of programming. So, we do, and that's split up into three months low-level, so we actually we did C, where we, you know, programmed our own shell, we programmed printf. Then after that we followed with high-levels. So we studied Python, and now we're in our CIS Admin track. So we're finishing out the last three months. And, like, throughout it there's been a little bit, like, intermix. Like, we did binary trees a couple weeks ago, and so that was back in C. And so, I love it when they're, like, throwing, like, C at us when we've been doing Python for a couple weeks, and I'm like, "Dammit, I have to put semicolons (laughs) >> John: (laughs) >> "And start compiling. "Why do we have to compile this?" Oh, anyway, so, offtrack. Okay, so after those nine months, and then it's a six month internship, and after that it's nine months of specialization. And so there's different spec-- you can specialize in high-level, low-level, they'll work with you in whatever you, whatever the student, their interests are in. And you can do that either full-time student or do it part-time. Which most of the students that are in the first batch that started in January 2016, they're, most of them are, like, still working, are still working, and then they're doing their nine month specialization as, like, part-time students. >> Final question for you, Elaine. Share your personal thoughts on, as you're immersed in the coding and learning, you see the community, you meet some great people here, network expanding, what are you excited about going forward? As you look out there, as you finish it up and getting involved, what's exciting to you in the world ahead of you? What do you think you're going to jump into? What's popping out and revealing itself to you? >> I think coming to the conference and hearing Jim speak about just how diversity is important and also hearing from multiple speakers and sessions about the importance of collaboration and contributions, I just feel like Lennox and Open Source, this whole movement is just a really, it's a step in the right direction, I believe. And it's just, I think the recognition that by being diverse that we are going to be stronger for it, that is super exciting to me. >> John: Yeah. >> Yeah, and I just hope to be able to-- >> John: Yeah (mumbles) >> I mean, I know I'm going to be able to add to that soon. (laughs) >> Well, you certainly are. Thanks for coming on The Cube. Congratulations on your success. Thanks for coming, appreciate it. >> Elaine: Thank you, thank you. >> And this is The Cube coverage, live in LA, for Open Source Summit North America. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. More live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: The Wynn resort in Las Vegas It's theCUBE. Covering .NEXT conference 2016 brought to you by Nutanix. Now here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. >> Welcome back everybody. Professor Deepak Malhotra here. He's with the Harvard Business school and author of Negotiating the Impossible: How to Break Deadlocks and Resolve Ugly Conflicts. Parenthetical without money or muscle end parenthetical. Deepak, welcome to theCUBE, great to see you. Thanks for having me here. Happy to be here. So what do you do in here? Well among the other things that I do with my time, I happen to be on the board of advisors for Nutanix. And I've been working with Nutanix for the last, a little over two years on various aspects of negotiation, deal making, training, etcetera. And so I attend a few of their conferences a few of the sessions. I talk at a few of their conferences as well. So that's what brings me here. >> So it's somewhat odd, right to have a negotiations expert come and talk to customers about negotiations. But I guess the angle would be if you're stuck in sort of a legacy world. You need to negotiate your way out is that. >> Well there's a couple of things going on there, right. So under one hand I think it shows a little bit about Nutanix's perspective. That it isn't a zero sum game. It's not we're going to train the Nutanix people so they can get an advantage over customers. I think the company really is focused on creating as much value as possible for the end user. And when you take that mind set it actually makes sense to be inclusive. And bring everybody in the ecosystem into the room. So it's not just, "Hey Professor Malhotra can you train our sales people?" It's you know we want to share your ideas with everybody. And I think that's really a good sign when a company is willing to do that. The second thing is as you just eluded to, a lot of the folks that are coming here and a lot of the people that are customers were thinking about moving in the direction of Nutanix. Or have bought into the idea. They still may need to sell it internally. They still may need to negotiate internally how do we change our organization or how do we move our organization from what its been doing to what it wants to be doing or it should be doing. And they're also many of the same skills can be useful. So why not educate them about some of the things they might not have thought about yet. >> So let's talk about your book a little bit. The premise. I guess I told you I haven't read it yet but I do have it. In the book you talked about a three thousand year old Treaty of Kadesh. And things that we can learn from three thousand years ago. Give us the basics and the premise. >> So this was. The books starts out with this story of the Treaty of Kadesh which I don't think is something that many business books start out talking about. Certainly, I hadn't seen it before I started researching it. And one of the interesting thing that happens is that there's a lesson embedded in the story of the Treaty of Kadesh that I think is as relevant today in negotiations of just about every kind in the business world and outside that, that's worth telling. And the basic story goes as follows. The Treaty of Kadesh is the most ancient peace treaty known to man kind. As far as we know it's as old a peace treaty as we have evidence of. And it was between the Egyptians and the Hittites. And these two parties were at war. And at some point they must of decided enough of this we need to put an end to this. There's too many cost internally and externally. Too many other threats. We need to find a way to resolve this kind of conflict. What often happens in these situations is that nobody wants to look weak. Nobody wants to be the one asking for peace because that might just embolden the other side. So what ends up happening is that somehow they overcome these hesitations. They reach this agreement. Now what's interesting is that we actually have access to both language's version of the treaty. So we have the Arcadian and the hieroglyphics. The hieroglyphics being the Egyptian version and the Arcadian being the one from the Hittites. And if you were to read both of these or if you were to first learn how to read these and then to read both of these. What you find is as you'd expect, they have a lot of the kinds of things that you would normally expect in a peace treaty. You know exchanging prisoners of war. Mutual assistance packs and things like this. And they're basically identical as they should be because they're the same peace treaty. But there is one difference. When you compare the two peace treaties the one difference that sort of stands out is that in the Egyptian version it says it's the Hittites who came asking for peace. And in the Hittite version it says it's the Egyptians who came asking for peace. And what it goes to show I think is that no matter how far back you go this need for every side to declare victory at the end of a negotiation at the end of a conflict. That need for every side to declare victory is as old as human beings themselves. When you understand that. I think it actually changes the way in which you try and negotiate these deals. How you think about what stands in the way of getting the deal done. Sometimes it's not the substance of the deal. You're already proposing something that's good enough. You're already have something on the table that's rich enough, valuable enough. They should say yes. But they might be other reasons they can't say yes. For example they might lose face. Or they may look bad. And when you recognize that I think you come at it a different way. >> Looking at your research. One of things you focus on is trust. And one of the challenges we have in technology is you know, people are entrenched with the way they do things. They're not likely to you know be first or go there. We've now got thousands of people using Nutanix but you know. How does Nutanix or others that are new get a proper seat at the table and be able to be part of a discussion that you know when you've got (mumbles) in there and the old ways of doing things. >> You know the way I see it. You have to get the economics right and you have to get the psychology right. The economics is you have to have a good product. It needs to be price appropriate. You need to be bringing value to the table. And be pricing based on that value proposition. So that's sort of basic business stuff. The problem is as I mentioned earlier. You may have the right product. You may have something that people, quote should be using. It is better than the alternative. But they might be these psychological hurdles that you need to get over. A prominent one being what you just eluded to which is when nobody else is doing it, nobody feels the urgency to do it. If you get the sense that you know there's not a mass of folks running after your product. They sort of feel like, well maybe that means something. Maybe it means it's not a big deal. Maybe it means it's not so urgent. Maybe it's not that good of a product. So the early hurdles that companies like these face are really big ones. You don't have a long list of customers that you can use to prove to other people that this is the way you should be going. There's always a risk that somebodies going to take a bet on this and if something goes wrong. It's sort of the old nobody lost their job buying IBM kind of mentality. And so as a negotiator and as a company that's starting out as an early stage company, especially in technology where you're doing something disruptive, you need to start thinking a little bit about how do we get them over that. How do we get them to start understanding that you know what. Here is a list of customers that are using it. And here's the testimonials, etcetera. You think about the pricing. The most common thing that happens when you walk into the room with a new disruptive technology is that the person on the other side says, "Are you crazy? "You're charging ten times what your competitor is charging. "You know you're sitting here telling me "to pay x. "If I do nothing I have to pay zero." Alright. "Nobody pays this kind of money for this kind of thing." That is a very common response sales people get when they are in an environment like this. And one of the things I advise people to do in that situation. Is to make sure they don't make the worst mistake a sales person can make in a moment where somebody says, "You're price is ten x what everybody else "is charging. "Nobody pays this much." The worst mistake a sales person can make is to apologize for the price being too high. Now they don't always do it by saying, "Oh my god I'm so sorry." But they seem apologetic. You know they're very quick to say, "Oh yeah I know it's high." >> "Let's see if we can do something." >> "I'm sure we can work something out. "But yeah you know I know it's a lot of money." The moment you go in that direction what you're basically doing is you're giving the other side a license to haggle with you. 'Cause what you're telling them is even you don't think the price is appropriate. A better response in a situation like this is for the sales person to say, "Listen I think the question you're asking me is, "how is it that despite our price being ten x "what some other people are charging, "we have a long list of people wanting to buy our product. "What kind of value must we be bringing to the table "for so many people wanting to buy this product? "Now I'm happy to talk about that value "because at the end of the day we all know nobody's "going to pay more for something than it's worth. "Nobody would do that, you're not going to do that. "So why don't we figure out what it's worth "and then you can make the right decision." And what you're doing there is you're shifting the conversion from price to value. You're shifting the frame of this conversation from how much am I having to pay and what's the cost to me to what is the value proposition. >> Stu's laughing. I mean your price is too high is the best sales objection ever. Right, you love to hear that as a sales person. Much better than your product sucks. (chuckles) Now the answer of this question is probably it depends. But when you advise your clients and your friends. When I go into a negotiation am I trying to get the best deal or am I trying to find common ground and get a win-win? >> Actually I don't think it depends. I think. (exhales loudly) Well I would. I would articulate the question slightly differently. Because in my experience it is possible to get a great deal and a great relationship. It's also possible to get neither. And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to optimize on both. What's interesting is that very often we assume it's a zero sum game enough. That the only way for me to get a good deal is for me to sacrifice the relationship in some way. That's not how it works in most sort of richer context, more complicated deal scenarios. Because what people evaluate when they walk away from the table isn't just did I get a quote, good economic deal. When people think back and say, "Do I want to work with this person again? "Do I like this person? "Did I get a good deal?" Often what they're thinking about is not so much of the substance of what they got. What's in the agreement. But the process they went through. For example. You know did the negotiation go as long as should of or did it drag on too long or end too abruptly? Was my voice heard? Did both sides move away from their opening positions? Did the person haggle with me on every little thing, even though they knew and I knew it's not a big deal to them and is a big deal to me? Those sort of process elements if you navigate the process more effectively you can often get to a point where you get the deal that you think is right for you and you get a relationship that both sides can walk away feeling good about. And from my perspective you know what does depend in, on it. It depends on the situation is what kind of feeling do you want them to have walking away. You don't always need to have them love you. But at the very least they should respect you. Right? And I think it's perfectly fair even in a very contentious negotiation to keep as one of your objectives. You know when the deal ends I want them to be able to walk away saying, "You know what, I maybe didn't agree with this person. "It didn't go exactly the way I wanted it to go. "But you know I can respect this person "for the way they handled the situation. "And if I were them I hope I would do it the same way." >> So I wonder. If I look at the society as a whole, it seems as if we kind of retreated to our sides and I find that lots of people aren't open for debate. They're intractable in what's going on. How do I get beyond that? >> How do we change society, is that the question? >> Stu: Yeah. >> How much time do we have? >> Am I wrong. (laughs) Is it only ten percent of the people that are intractable or are most people reasonable? >> So I think what happens is, there's a few interesting dynamics. Now I wouldn't have the precise numbers. What I can say is that it is certainly the case that even a minority of people being in those entrenched positions, they get a lot more of the media. They get a lot more of the attention. They tend to be louder, etcetera. And they can often drive our sense of what's actually happening. And it can drive the narrative. Now that doesn't mean there aren't real differences. Like strong differences. You know what's interesting is if you take people that are not on the extremes. You take the moderates. Sometimes the way in which we engage with people on the other side of the argument pushes them to be more extreme. See when we ourselves show up, thinking of ourselves as relatively moderate, enlightened people who have a set of point of view. But you know what I'm very open to other peoples perspective. But then we get into the conversation. And we end up challenging people in a way they don't find particularly useful. We start poking holes. We start making it's about a winning and a losing and a debate. And there's going to be at the end of the day points, score based on who wins the argument. Then people end up getting more and more entrenched. Even in ways that they otherwise wouldn't be. So the question is can we get to a point where at least those people on each side. And I find on any political issue I can find people on both sides that I think are trying to do the right thing and have perhaps limited information but they're trying to do the best they can with that information. They have good intentions and they're reasonably smart people. In my experience, you don't need two people one of whom is either evil, or crazy, or irrational to have conflict. You just need two people. You see good, smart, reasonably well-intentioned people getting into conflict all the time. Which then becomes the question of this book, which is how do we manage those situations? How do we get people to back away from these entrenched positions? How do we overcome deadlock that allows both sides to walk away feeling a little bit better about the situation? >> So examples are instructive. So let's talk about some great negotiators. Who are they? Let's start with sports. Scott Boras. You know you think of him as an agent. I mean grinding the teams, the general managers. Is he a good negotiator? >> So I don't follow many of the sports deal making and negotiations enough to be able to really elaborate on who would be a good negotiator in sports. But I can say this. That in a context where it's really just about things like price. Just about the money. And a sports agent often is, it's not really all about that but it is the most (mumbles). It is the most (mumbles) issue. You're going to go at it a certain way. And it would be similar to a negotiation in the business world where all you care about is price. You're buying or selling a house. You're buying or selling a car. And from my perspective there are people who are very good at haggling. There's people who can hold their cards to the chest and they can be aggressive when they need to be. And they can be persuasive in certain things. But when you look at negotiation as a whole. I think of haggling as a very, very thing slice of what negotiation is about. That's sort of the easy stuff. You may not be naturally good at it. But what it takes to be good at it is not so hard. We teach that on sort of day one of class. Day one of class is the price haggle. It's the you know there's two sides and you want opposite things. And how do you frame it in the right way and what kind of concession rate should you make or not make. How do you justify your proposal etcetera. We cover that on day one. And the problem is there is in our owner president program where I teach there's 15 more days left. In our MBA program there's like 27 more days left. And there the question becomes how do we get past just being a good haggler. Somebody who can just put fist to the table and say take it or leave it. And all that kind of stuff. Which will work in certain defined contexts but will not carry over to more important deals. >> You're right. That is a narrow context in sports because the agent has all the leverage of the players performed. How 'about Donald Trump? He's negotiating isn't he when he says Mexico's going to build the wall. He wrote the book, Art of the Deal. >> He did write that book. Yeah we co-authored that book actually. So is he negotiating when he says that. In the broader sense of the word negotiation which is basically how do we interact with other human beings who see things differently than we do. He absolutely is negotiating. If the question then becomes is he doing it effectively. My view would be that, that he is not. (chuckles) And I think if you actually were to look at the evidence and then stack it up. I think you would find that he's not a very effective negotiator. >> We don't have to go there. That's good. >> Deepak: That's okay I don't mind. >> We'll leave it there. But how 'about (mumbles), right. I mean you've had like an epic negotiation to bring those two. Is that an example? I mean even though it ended in tragedy on both sides is that an example of a successful negotiation? >> So it's an example of a, it is an example of a successful negotiation. And I think even more instructively it's an example of one of the biggest barriers in conflicts like this. The hardest part is often to bring your own side with you. And that is a challenge for leadership. It's not just in the bubble of negotiation. This is about leadership generally. To be able to have someone who can not only personally be willing to do the kinds of things that make the kinds of sacrifices but to be able to move a group of folks who for years, sometimes decades or centuries have been thinking differently. And to your point what often happens with these peace makers is you know the risk is you do one of these things and you're going to get killed. And usually you get killed by your own side. And exactly in the context you're talking about that's usually what happens. And so here what we see is not only an impressive set of events that led to negotiation and the negotiation itself but you see a certain amount of courage that leaders don't often enough show. And again some leaders aren't placed well. They don't have the support going in. Or they just don't have the ability to do it. But even those that do. The question is are you willing to expend the social and political capital necessary and put yourself on the line to be able to do something that you think is worth doing? >> I said I wasn't going to ask you but I am going to ask you 'cause your answer is so good. The Iran Deal. Good deal, not a good deal? You see to your point about getting killed by your own side. >> So I was not involved with the Iran deal. I do work with sometimes governments negotiating difficult conflicts and such. But I was not in any way involved with the Iran deal. What I can say is, based on the folks I've talk to leading up to the Iran deal and then after the Iran deal. It is my sense looking at what was accomplished that is actually a phenomenal deal for when it was done. Could a better deal have been done ten years earlier? Yes. One of the hardest things to negotiate against in the real world is the status quo. It's a lot easier to negotiate don't create center (mumbles) when there are none than it is to negotiate remove the center (mumbles) you have already created. So if you could go back in time which I have not met anybody yet who's able to do effectively it would be possible to get a better deal. Where things were last year and the year before I can say that pretty much everybody you talk to before the deal was announced on either side of the political spectrum, Republicans, Democrats, left, right, Hawkish, Dovish, you name it. Nobody would of expected a deal this good for the American side at the time. Now you may still not like it. You may be against any deal and that's okay. You can certainly have that perspective but if you're going to get a deal in this environment and what was being said leading up to this. I think both sides were pretty surprised and I would even say impressed. Until it came time to start talking about it publicly at which point of course you have to go back to your narrative. So you know again, I had nothing to do with it. But when you look at it, it surprised most people in terms of what it came out to be. >> So what are you working on? Next projects? Things that are exciting you these days. >> So I have sort of three areas where my attention is going. One is on ethnic conflict and armed conflict. As I was eluding to earlier I do some work with governments that are dealing with insurgency and conflict. And looking at what we know and what do we not know about resolving these kind of things. And how we can maybe push forward in that direction. So that's an area of advisory work but also research that I'm doing. Second area is I'm working with doctors. Thinking about how they can be more effective in prescribing a course of action to patients. How they can have more effective kind of conversations when a patient comes in and has a strong set of beliefs about what they should and shouldn't do. Or they're resistant to change. Or they're unwilling to do things. How can you be more effective in the time you spend with patients. And I do work on gun violence. And we've been looking at mass shootings. And we just had some research that got a lot of coverage unfortunately because of the tragedy that took place in Orlando not so long ago. Looking at whether mass shootings really have any impact on gun laws. And we find some interesting results there. So in a sense I'm sort of looking at insurgency and dealing with cancer patients and then gun violence. >> Interesting topics. >> Deepak: All of the darkest stuff we can find. >> It's a tragic but timely. And then there's another sequence there. Do gun laws have an impact on mass shooting. >> Deepak: And that's basically the next set of projects. >> Excellent. Well thank you very much. (mumbles) >> Deepak: It was great. >> Fantastic. >> Deepak: Absolutely. >> Alright keep right there everybody. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. We're live this is theCUBE SiliconANGLE's flagship production from .NEXT in Vegas. Be right back.

(gentle upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm John Furrier host here in Palo Alto, California. theCUBE's second year covering International Women's Day. It's been a great celebration of all the smart leaders in the world who are making a difference from all kinds of backgrounds, from technology to business and everything in between. Today we've got a great guest, Dominique Bastos, who's the senior Vice President of Cloud at Persistent Systems, formerly with AWS. That's where we first met at re:Invent. Dominique, great to have you on the program here for International Women's Day. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you John, for having me back on theCUBE. This is an honor, especially given the theme. >> Well, I'm excited to have you on, I consider you one of those typecast personas where you've kind of done a lot of things. You're powerful, you've got great business acumen you're technical, and we're in a world where, you know the world's coming completely digital and 50% of the world is women, 51%, some say. So you got mostly male dominated industry and you have a dual engineering background and that's super impressive as well. Again, technical world, male dominated you're in there in the mix. What inspires you to get these engineering degrees? >> I think even it was more so shifted towards males. When I had the inspiration to go to engineering school I was accused as a young girl of being a tomboy and fiddling around with all my brother's toys versus focusing on my dolls and other kind of stereotypical toys that you would give a girl. I really had a curiosity for building, a curiosity for just breaking things apart and putting them back together. I was very lucky in that my I guess you call it primary school, maybe middle school, had a program for, it was like electronics, that was the class electronics. So building circuit boards and things like that. And I really enjoyed that aspect of building. I think it was more actually going into engineering school. Picking that as a discipline was a little bit, my mom's reaction to when I announced that I wanted to do engineering which was, "No, that's for boys." >> Really. >> And that really, you know, I think she, it came from a good place in trying to protect me from what she has experienced herself in terms of how women are received in those spaces. So I kind of shrugged it off and thought "Okay, well I'm definitely now going to do this." >> (laughs) If I was told not to, you're going to do it. >> I was told not to, that's all I needed to hear. And also, I think my passion was to design cars and I figured if I enroll in an industrial engineering program I could focus on ergonomic design and ultimately, you know have a career doing something that I'm passionate about. So yeah, so my inspiration was kind of a little bit of don't do this, a lot of curiosity. I'm also a very analytical person. I've been, and I don't know what the science is around left right brain to be honest, but been told that I'm a very much a logical person versus a feeler. So I don't know if that's good or bad. >> Straight shooter. What were your engineering degrees if you don't mind sharing? >> So I did industrial engineering and so I did a dual degree, industrial engineering and robotics. At the time it was like a manufacturing robotics program. It was very, very cool because we got to, I mean now looking back, the evolution of robotics is just insane. But you, you know, programmed a robotic arm to pick things up. I actually crashed the Civil Engineering School's Concrete Canoe Building Competition where you literally have to design a concrete canoe and do all the load testing and the strength testing of the materials and basically then, you know you go against other universities to race the canoe in a body of water. We did that at, in Alabama and in Georgia. So I was lucky to experience that two times. It was a lot of fun. >> But you knew, so you knew, deep down, you were technical you had a nerd vibe you were geeking out on math, tech, robotics. What happened next? I mean, what were some of the challenges you faced? How did you progress forward? Did you have any blockers and roadblocks in front of you and how did you handle those? >> Yeah, I mean I had, I had a very eye-opening experience with, in my freshman year of engineering school. I kind of went in gung-ho with zero hesitation, all the confidence in the world, 'cause I was always a very big nerd academically, I hate admitting this but myself and somebody else got most intellectual, voted by the students in high school. It's like, you don't want to be voted most intellectual when you're in high school. >> Now it's a big deal. (laughs) >> Yeah, you want to be voted like popular or anything like that? No, I was a nerd, but in engineering school, it's a, it was very humbling. That whole confidence that I had. I experienced prof, ooh, I don't want to name the school. Everybody can google it though, but, so anyway so I had experience with some professors that actually looked at me and said, "You're in the wrong program. This is difficult." I, and I think I've shared this before in other forums where, you know, my thermodynamic teacher basically told me "Cheerleading's down the hall," and it it was a very shocking thing to hear because it really made me wonder like, what am I up against here? Is this what it's going to be like going forward? And I decided not to pay attention to that. I think at the moment when you hear something like that you just, you absorb it and you also don't know how to react. And I decided immediately to just walk right past him and sit down front center in the class. In my head I was cursing him, of course, 'cause I mean, let's be real. And I was like, I'm going to show this bleep bleep. And proceeded to basically set the curve class crushed it and was back to be the teacher's assistant. So I think that was one. >> But you became his teacher assistant after, or another one? >> Yeah, I gave him a mini speech. I said, do not do this. You, you could, you could have broken me and if you would've done this to somebody who wasn't as steadfast in her goals or whatever, I was really focused like I'm doing this, I would've backed out potentially and said, you know this isn't something I want to experience on the daily. So I think that was actually a good experience because it gave me an opportunity to understand what I was up against but also double down in how I was going to deal with it. >> Nice to slay the misogynistic teachers who typecast people. Now you had a very technical career but also you had a great career at AWS on the business side you've handled 'em all of the big accounts, I won't say the names, but like we're talking about monster accounts, sales and now basically it's not really selling, you're managing a big account, it's like a big business. It's a business development thing. Technical to business transition, how do you handle that? Was that something you were natural for? Obviously you, you stared down the naysayers out of the gate in college and then in business, did that continue and how did you drive through that? >> So I think even when I was coming out of university I knew that I wanted to have a balance between the engineering program and business. A lot of my colleagues went on to do their PEs so continue to get their masters basically in engineering or their PhDs in engineering. I didn't really have an interest for that. I did international business and finance as my MBA because I wanted to explore the ability of taking what I had learned in engineering school and applying it to building businesses. I mean, at the time I didn't have it in my head that I would want to do startups but I definitely knew that I wanted to get a feel for what are they learning in business school that I missed out in engineering school. So I think that helped me when I transitioned, well when I applied, I was asked to come apply at AWS and I kind of went, no I'm going to, the DNA is going to be rejected. >> You thought, you thought you'd be rejected from AWS. >> I thought I'd be, yeah, because I have very much a startup founder kind of disruptive personality. And to me, when I first saw AWS at the stage early 2016 I saw it as a corporation. Even though from a techie standpoint, I was like, these people are insane. This is amazing what they're building. But I didn't know what the cultural vibe would feel like. I had been with GE at the beginning of my career for almost three years. So I kind of equated AWS Amazon to GE given the size because in between, I had done startups. So when I went to AWS I think initially, and I do have to kind of shout out, you know Todd Weatherby basically was the worldwide leader for ProServe and it was being built, he built it and I went into ProServe to help from that standpoint. >> John: ProServe, Professional services >> Professional services, right. To help these big enterprise customers. And specifically my first customer was an amazing experience in taking, basically the company revolves around strategic selling, right? It's not like you take a salesperson with a conventional schooling that salespeople would have and plug them into AWS in 2016. It was very much a consultative strategic approach. And for me, having a technical background and loving to solve problems for customers, working with the team, I would say, it was a dream team that I joined. And also the ability to come to the table with a technical background, knowing how to interact with senior executives to help them envision where they want to go, and then to bring a team along with you to make that happen. I mean, that was like magical for me. I loved that experience. >> So you like the culture, I mean, Andy Jassy, I've interviewed many times, always talked about builders and been a builder mentality. You mentioned that earlier at the top of this interview you've always building things, curious and you mentioned potentially your confidence might have been shaken. So you, you had the confidence. So being a builder, you know, being curious and having confidence seems to be what your superpower is. A lot of people talk about the confidence angle. How important is that and how important is that for encouraging more women to get into tech? Because I still hear that all the time. Not that they don't have confidence, but there's so many signals that potentially could shake confidence in industry >> Yeah, that's actually a really good point that you're making. A lot of signals that women get could shake their confidence and that needs to be, I mean, it's easy to say that it should be innate. I mean that's kind of like textbook, "Oh it has to come from within." Of course it does. But also, you know, we need to understand that in a population where 50% of the population is women but only 7% of the positions in tech, and I don't know the most current number in tech leadership, is women, and probably a smaller percentage in the C-suite. When you're looking at a woman who's wanting to go up the trajectory in a tech company and then there's a subconscious understanding that there's a limit to how far you'll go, your confidence, you know, in even subconsciously gets shaken a little bit because despite your best efforts, you're already seeing the cap. I would say that we need to coach girls to speak confidently to navigate conflict versus running away from it, to own your own success and be secure in what you bring to the table. And then I think a very important thing is to celebrate each other and the wins that we see for women in tech, in the industry. >> That's awesome. What's, the, in your opinion, the, you look at that, the challenges for this next generation women, and women in general, what are some of the challenges for them and that they need to overcome today? I mean, obviously the world's changed for the better. Still not there. I mean the numbers one in four women, Rachel Thornton came on, former CMO of AWS, she's at MessageBird now. They had a study where only one in four women go to the executive board level. And so there's still, still numbers are bad and then the numbers still got to get up, up big time. That's, and the industry's working on that, but it's changed. But today, what are some of the challenges for this current generation and the next generation of women and how can we and the industry meet, we being us, women in the industry, be strong role models for them? >> Well, I think the challenge is one of how many women are there in the pipeline and what are we doing to retain them and how are we offering up the opportunities to fill. As you know, as Rachel said and I haven't had an opportunity to see her, in how are we giving them this opportunity to take up those seats in the C-suite right, in these leadership roles. And I think this is a little bit exacerbated with the pandemic in that, you know when everything shut down when people were going back to deal with family and work at the same time, for better or for worse the brunt of it fell on probably, you know the maternal type caregiver within the family unit. You know, I've been, I raised my daughter alone and for me, even without the pandemic it was a struggle constantly to balance the risk that I was willing to take to show up for those positions versus investing even more of that time raising a child, right? Nevermind the unconscious bias or cultural kind of expectations that you get from the male counterparts where there's zero understanding of what a mom might go through at home to then show up to a meeting, you know fully fresh and ready to kind of spit out some wisdom. It's like, you know, your kid just freaking lost their whatever and you know, they, so you have to sort a bunch of things out. I think the challenge that women are still facing and will we have to keep working at it is making sure that there's a good pipeline. A good amount of young ladies of people taking interest in tech. And then as they're, you know, going through the funnel at stages in their career, we're providing the mentoring we're, there's representation, right? To what they're aspiring to. We're celebrating their interest in the field, right? And, and I think also we're doing things to retain them, because again, the pandemic affected everybody. I think women specifically and I don't know the statistics but I was reading something about this were the ones to tend to kind of pull it back and say well now I need to be home with, you know you name how many kids and pets and the aging parents, people that got sick to take on that position. In addition to the career aspirations that they might have. We need to make it easier basically. >> I think that's a great call out and I appreciate you bringing that up about family and being a single mom. And by the way, you're savage warrior to doing that. It's amazing. You got to, I know you have a daughter in computer science at Stanford, I want to get to that in a second. But that empathy and I mentioned Rachel Thornton, who's the CMO MessageBird and former CMO of AWS. Her thing right now to your point is mentoring and sponsorship is very key. And her company and the video that's on the site here people should look at that and reference that. They talk a lot about that empathy of people's situation whether it's a single mom, family life, men and women but mainly women because they're the ones who people aren't having a lot of empathy for in that situation, as you called it out. This is huge. And I think remote work has opened up this whole aperture of everyone has to have a view into how people are coming to the table at work. So, you know, props are bringing that up, and I recommend everyone look at check out Rachel Thornton. So how do you balance that, that home life and talk about your daughter's journey because sounds like she's nerding out at Stanford 'cause you know Stanford's called Nerd Nation, that's their motto, so you must be proud. >> I am so proud, I'm so proud. And I will say, I have to admit, because I did encounter so many obstacles and so many hurdles in my journey, it's almost like I forgot that I should set that aside and not worry about my daughter. My hope for her was for her to kind of be artistic and a painter or go into something more lighthearted and fun because I just wanted to think, I guess my mom had the same idea, right? She, always been very driven. She, I want to say that I got very lucky that she picked me to be her mom. Biologically I'm her mom, but I told her she was like a little star that fell from the sky and I, and ended up with me. I think for me, balancing being a single mom and a career where I'm leading and mentoring and making big decisions that affect people's lives as well. You have to take the best of everything you get from each of those roles. And I think that the best way is play to your strengths, right? So having been kind of a nerd and very organized person and all about, you know, systems for effectiveness, I mean, industrial engineering, parenting for me was, I'm going to make it sound super annoying and horrible, but (laughs) >> It's funny, you know, Dave Vellante and I when we started SiliconANGLE and theCUBE years ago, one of the things we were all like sports lovers. So we liked sports and we are like we looked at the people in tech as tech athletes and except there's no men and women teams, it's one team. It's all one thing. So, you know, I consider you a tech athlete you're hard charging strong and professional and smart and beautiful and brilliant, all those good things. >> Thank you. >> Now this game is changing and okay, and you've done startups, and you've done corporate jobs, now you're in a new role. What's the current tech landscape from a, you know I won't say athletic per standpoint but as people who are smart. You have all kinds of different skill sets. You have the startup warriors, you have the folks who like to be in the middle of the corporate world grow up through corporate, climb the corporate ladder. You have investors, you have, you know, creatives. What have you enjoyed most and where do you see all the action? >> I mean, I think what I've enjoyed the most has been being able to bring all of the things that I feel I'm strong at and bring it together to apply that to whatever the problem is at hand, right? So kind of like, you know if you look at a renaissance man who can kind of pop in anywhere and, oh, he's good at, you know sports and he's good at reading and, or she's good at this or, take all of those strengths and somehow bring them together to deal with the issue at hand, versus breaking up your mindset into this is textbook what I learned and this is how business should be done and I'm going to draw these hard lines between personal life and work life, or between how you do selling and how you do engineering. So I think my, the thing that I loved, really loved about AWS was a lot of leaders saw something in me that I potentially didn't see, which was, yeah you might be great at running that big account but we need help over here doing go to market for a new product launch and boom, there you go. Now I'm in a different org helping solve that problem and getting something launched. And I think if you don't box yourself in to I'm only good at this, or, you know put a label on yourself as being the rockstar in that. It leaves room for opportunities to present themselves but also it leaves room within your own mind to see yourself as somebody capable of doing anything. Right, I don't know if I answered the question accurately. >> No, that's good, no, that's awesome. I love the sharing, Yeah, great, great share there. Question is, what do you see, what do you currently during now you're building a business of Persistent for the cloud, obviously AWS and Persistent's a leader global system integrator around the world, thousands and thousands of customers from what we know and been reporting on theCUBE, what's next for you? Where do you see yourself going? Obviously you're going to knock this out of the park. Where do you see yourself as you kind of look at the continuing journey of your mission, personal, professional what's on your mind? Where do you see yourself going next? >> Well, I think, you know, again, going back to not boxing yourself in. This role is an amazing one where I have an opportunity to take all the pieces of my career in tech and apply them to building a business within a business. And that involves all the goodness of coaching and mentoring and strategizing. And I'm loving it. I'm loving the opportunity to work with such great leaders. Persistent itself is very, very good at providing opportunities, very diverse opportunities. We just had a huge Semicolon; Hackathon. Some of the winners were females. The turnout was amazing in the CTO's office. We have very strong women leading the charge for innovation. I think to answer your question about the future and where I may see myself going next, I think now that my job, well they say the job is never done. But now that Chloe's kind of settled into Stanford and kind of doing her own thing, I have always had a passion to continue leading in a way that brings me to, into the fold a lot more. So maybe, you know, maybe in a VC firm partner mode or another, you know CEO role in a startup, or my own startup. I mean, I never, I don't know right now I'm super happy but you never know, you know where your drive might go. And I also want to be able to very deliberately be in a role where I can continue to mentor and support up and coming women in tech. >> Well, you got the smarts but you got really the building mentality, the curiosity and the confidence really sets you up nicely. Dominique great story, great inspiration. You're a role model for many women, young girls out there and women in tech and in celebration. It's a great day and thank you for sharing that story and all the good nuggets there. Appreciate you coming on theCUBE, and it's been my pleasure. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. Thank you so much for having me. >> Okay, theCUBE's coverage of International Women's Day. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here in Palo Alto getting all the content, check out the other interviews some amazing stories, lessons learned, and some, you know some funny stories and some serious stories. So have some fun and enjoy the rest of the videos here for International Women's Days, thanks for watching. (gentle inspirational music)

(light upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's day long coverage of Women in Data Science 2023. Live from Stanford University, I'm Lisa Martin. We've had some amazing conversations today with my wonderful co-host, as you've seen. Tracy Zhang joins me next for a very interesting and inspiring conversation. I know we've been bringing them to you, we're bringing you another one here. Dr. Irene Dankwa-Mullan joins us, the Chief Medical Officer at Marti Health, and a speaker at WIDS. Welcome, Irene, it's great to have you. >> Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you so much for this opportunity. >> So you have an MD and a Master of Public Health. Covid must have been an interesting time for you, with an MPH? >> Very much so. >> Yeah, talk a little bit about you, your background, and Marti Health? This is interesting. This is a brand new startup. This is a digital health equity startup. >> Yes, yes. So, I'll start with my story a little bit about myself. So I was actually born in Ghana. I finished high school there and came here for college. What would I say? After I finished my undergraduate, I went to medical school at Dartmouth and I always knew I wanted to go into public health as well as medicine. So my medical education was actually five years. I did the MPH and my medical degree, at the same time, I got my MPH from Yale School of Public Health. And after I finished, I trained in internal medicine, Johns Hopkins, and after that I went into public health. I am currently living in Maryland, so I'm in Bethesda, Maryland, and that's where I've been. And really enjoyed public health, community health, combining that aspect of sort of prevention and wellness and also working in making sure that we have community health clinics and safety net clinics. So a great experience there. I also had the privilege, after eight years in public health, I went to the National Institute of Health. >> Oh, wow. >> Where I basically worked in clinical research, basically on minority health and health disparities. So, I was in various leadership roles and helped to advance the science of health equity, working in collaboration with a lot of scientists and researchers at the NIH, really to advance the science. >> Where did your interest in health equity come from? Was there a defining moment when you were younger and you thought "There's a lot of inequities here, we have to do something about this." Where did that interest start? >> That's a great question. I think this influence was basically maybe from my upbringing as well as my family and also what I saw around me in Ghana, a lot of preventable diseases. I always say that my grandfather on my father's side was a great influence, inspired me and influenced my career because he was the only sibling, really, that went to school. And as a result, he was able to earn enough money and built, you know, a hospital. >> Oh wow. >> In their hometown. >> Oh my gosh! >> It started as a 20 bed hospital and now it's a 350 bed hospital. >> Oh, wow, that's amazing! >> In our hometown. And he knew that education was important and vital as well for wellbeing. And so he really inspired, you know, his work inspired me. And I remember in residency I went with a group of residents to this hospital in Ghana just to help over a summer break. So during a summer where we went and helped take care of the sick patients and actually learned, right? What it is like to care for so many patients and- >> Yeah. >> It was really a humbling experience. But that really inspired me. I think also being in this country. And when I came to the U.S. and really saw firsthand how patients are treated differently, based on their background or socioeconomic status. I did see firsthand, you know, that kind of unconscious bias. And, you know, drew me to the field of health disparities research and wanted to learn more and do more and contribute. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I was curious. Just when did the data science aspect tap in? Like when did you decide that, okay, data science is going to be a problem solving tool to like all the problems you just said? >> Yeah, that's a good question. So while I was at the NIH, I spent eight years there, and precision medicine was launched at that time and there was a lot of heightened interest in big data and how big data could help really revolutionize medicine and healthcare. And I got the opportunity to go, you know, there was an opportunity where they were looking for physicians or deputy chief health officer at IBM. And so I went to IBM, Watson Health was being formed as a new business unit, and I was one of the first deputy chief health officers really to lead the data and the science evidence. And that's where I realized, you know, we could really, you know, the technology in healthcare, there's been a lot of data that I think we are not really using or optimizing to make sure that we're taking care of our patients. >> Yeah. >> And so that's how I got into data science and making sure that we are building technologies using the right data to advance health equity. >> Right, so talk a little bit about health equity? We mentioned you're with Marti Health. You've been there for a short time, but Marti Health is also quite new, just a few months old. Digital health equity, talk about what Marti's vision is, what its mission is to really help start dialing down a lot of the disparities that you talked about that you see every day? >> Yeah, so, I've been so privileged. I recently joined Marti Health as their Chief Medical Officer, Chief Health Officer. It's a startup that is actually trying to promote a value-based care, also promote patient-centered care for patients that are experiencing a social disadvantage as a result of their race, ethnicity. And were starting to look at and focused on patients that have sickle cell disease. >> Okay. >> Because we realize that that's a population, you know, we know sickle cell disease is a genetic disorder. It impacts a lot of patients that are from areas that are endemic malaria. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And most of our patients here are African American, and when, you know, they suffer so much stigma and discrimination in the healthcare system and complications from their sickle cell disease. And so what we want to do that we feel like sickle cell is a litmus test for disparities. And we want to make sure that they get in patient-centered care. We want to make sure that we are leveraging data and the research that we've done in sickle cell disease, especially on the continent of Africa. >> Okay. >> And provide, promote better quality care for the patients. >> That's so inspiring. You know, we've heard so many great stories today. Were you able to watch the keynote this morning? >> Yes. >> I loved how it always inspires me. This conference is always, we were talking about this all day, how you walk in the Arrillaga Alumni Center here where this event is held every year, the vibe is powerful, it's positive, it's encouraging. >> Inspiring, yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Inspiring. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's a movement, WIDS is a movement. They've created this community where you feel, I don't know, kind of superhuman. "Why can't I do this? Why not me?" We heard some great stories this morning about data science in terms of applications. You have a great application in terms of health equity. We heard about it in police violence. >> Yes. >> Which is an epidemic in this country for sure, as we know. This happens too often. How can we use data and data science as a facilitator of learning more about that, so that that can stop? I think that's so important for more people to understand all of the broad applications of data science, whether it's police violence or climate change or drug discovery or health inequities. >> Irene: Yeah. >> The potential, I think we're scratching the surface. But the potential is massive. >> Tracy: It is. >> And this is an event that really helps women and underrepresented minorities think, "Why not me? Why can't I get involved in that?" >> Yeah, and I always say we use data to make an make a lot of decisions. And especially in healthcare, we want to be careful about how we are using data because this is impacting the health and outcomes of our patients. And so science evidence is really critical, you know? We want to make sure that data is inclusive and we have quality data. >> Yes. >> And it's transparent. Our clinical trials, I always say are not always diverse and inclusive. And if that's going to form the evidence base or data points then we're doing more harm than good for our patients. And so data science, it's huge. I mean, we need a robust, responsible, trustworthy data science agenda. >> "Trust" you just brought up "trust." >> Yeah. >> I did. >> When we talk about data, we can't not talk about security and privacy and ethics but trust is table stakes. We have to be able to evaluate the data and trust in it. >> Exactly. >> And what it says and the story that can be told from it. So that trust factor is, I think, foundational to data science. >> We all see what happened with Covid, right? I mean, when the pandemic came out- >> Absolutely. >> Everyone wanted information. We wanted data, we wanted data we could trust. There was a lot of hesitancy even with the vaccine. >> Yeah. >> Right? And so public health, I mean, like you said, we had to do a lot of work making sure that the right information from the right data was being translated or conveyed to the communities. And so you are totally right. I mean, data and good information, relevant data is always key. >> Well- >> Is there any- Oh, sorry. >> Go ahead. >> Is there anything Marti Health is doing in like ensuring that you guys get the right data that you can put trust in it? >> Yes, absolutely. And so this is where we are, you know, part of it would be getting data, real world evidence data for patients who are being seen in the healthcare system with sickle cell disease, so that we can personalize the data to those patients and provide them with the right treatment, the right intervention that they need. And so part of it would be doing predictive modeling on some of the data, risk, stratifying risk, who in the sickle cell patient population is at risk of progressing. Or getting, you know, they all often get crisis, vaso-occlusive crisis because the cells, you know, the blood cell sickles and you want to avoid those chest crisis. And so part of what we'll be doing is, you know, using predictive modeling to target those at risk of the disease progressing, so that we can put in preventive measures. It's all about prevention. It's all about making sure that they're not being, you know, going to the hospital or the emergency room where sometimes they end up, you know, in pain and wanting pain medicine. And so. >> Do you see AI as being a critical piece in the transformation of healthcare, especially where inequities are concerned? >> Absolutely, and and when you say AI, I think it's responsible AI. >> Yes. >> And making sure that it's- >> Tracy: That's such a good point. >> Yeah. >> Very. >> With the right data, with relevant data, it's definitely key. I think there is so much data points that healthcare has, you know, in the healthcare space there's fiscal data, biological data, there's environmental data and we are not using it to the full capacity and full potential. >> Tracy: Yeah. >> And I think AI can do that if we do it carefully, and like I said, responsibly. >> That's a key word. You talked about trust, responsibility. Where data science, AI is concerned- >> Yeah. >> It has to be not an afterthought, it has to be intentional. >> Tracy: Exactly. >> And there needs to be a lot of education around it. Most people think, "Oh, AI is just for the technology," you know? >> Yeah, right. >> Goop. >> Yes. >> But I think we're all part, I mean everyone needs to make sure that we are collecting the right amount of data. I mean, I think we all play a part, right? >> We do. >> We do. >> In making sure that we have responsible AI, we have, you know, good data, quality data. And the data sciences is a multi-disciplinary field, I think. >> It is, which is one of the things that's exciting about it is it is multi-disciplinary. >> Tracy: Exactly. >> And so many of the people that we've talked to in data science have these very non-linear paths to get there, and so I think they bring such diversity of thought and backgrounds and experiences and thoughts and voices. That helps train the AI models with data that's more inclusive. >> Irene: Yes. >> Dropping down the volume on the bias that we know is there. To be successful, it has to. >> Definitely, I totally agree. >> What are some of the things, as we wrap up here, that you're looking forward to accomplishing as part of Marti Health? Like, maybe what's on the roadmap that you can share with us for Marti as it approaches the the second half of its first year? >> Yes, it's all about promoting health equity. It's all about, I mean, there's so much, well, I would start with, you know, part of the healthcare transformation is making sure that we are promoting care that's based on value and not volume, care that's based on good health outcomes, quality health outcomes, and not just on, you know, the quantity. And so Marti Health is trying to promote that value-based care. We are envisioning a world in which everyone can live their full life potential. Have the best health outcomes, and provide that patient-centered precision care. >> And we all want that. We all want that. We expect that precision and that personalized experience in our consumer lives, why not in healthcare? Well, thank you, Irene, for joining us on the program today. >> Thank you. >> Talking about what you're doing to really help drive the volume up on health equity, and raise awareness for the fact that there's a lot of inequities in there we have to fix. We have a long way to go. >> We have, yes. >> Lisa: But people like you are making an impact and we appreciate you joining theCUBE today and sharing what you're doing, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you- >> Thank you for having me here. >> Oh, our pleasure. For our guest and Tracy Zhang, this is Lisa Martin from WIDS 2023, the eighth Annual Women in Data Science Conference brought to you by theCUBE. Stick around, our show wrap will be in just a minute. Thanks for watching. (light upbeat music)

>>Good afternoon, friends. My name is Savannah Peterson here in the Cube Studios live from Detroit, Michigan, where we're at Cuban and Cloud Native Foundation, Cloud Native Con all week. Our last interview of the day served me a real treat and one that I wasn't expecting. It turns out that I am in the presence of two caddies. It's a literal episode of Caddy Shack up here on Cube. John Furrier. I don't think the audience knows that you were a caddy. Tell us about your caddy days. >>I used to caddy when I was a kid at the local country club every weekend. This is amazing. Double loops every weekend. Make some bang, two bags on each shoulder. Caddying for the members where you're going. Now I'm >>On show. Just, just really impressive >>Now. Now I'm caddying for the cube where I caddy all this great content out to the audience. >>He's carrying the story of emerging brands and established companies on their cloud journey. I love it. John, well played. I don't wanna waste any more of this really wonderful individual's time, but since we now have a new trend of talking about everyone's Twitter handle here on the cube, this may be my favorite one of the day, if not Q4 so far. Drew, not reply. AKA Drew ne Drew Nielsen, excuse me, there is here with us from Teleport. Drew, thanks so much for being here. >>Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. >>And so you were a caddy on a whole different level. Can you tell us >>About that? Yeah, so I was in university and I got tired after two years and didn't have a car in LA and met a pro golfer at a golf course and took two years off and traveled around caddying for him and tried to get 'em through Q School. >>This is, this is fantastic. So if you're in school and your parents are telling you to continue going to school, know that you can drop out and be a caddy and still be a very successful television personality. Like both of the gentlemen at some point. >>Well, I never said my parents like >>That decision, but we'll keep our day jobs. Yeah, exactly. And one of them is Cloud Native Security. The hottest topic here at the show. Yep. I want to get into it. You guys are doing some really cool things. Are we? We hear Zero Trust, you know, ransomware and we even, I even talked with the CEO of Dockets morning about container security issues. Sure. There's a lot going on. So you guys are in the middle of teleport. You guys have a unique solution. Tell us what you guys got going on. What do you guys do? What's the solution and what's the problem you solve? >>So Teleport is the first and only identity native infrastructure access solution in the market. So breaking that down, what that really means is identity native being the combination of secret list, getting rid of passwords, Pam Vaults, Key Vaults, Yeah. Passwords written down. Basically the number one source of breach. And 50 to 80% of breaches, depending on whose numbers you want to believe are how organizations get hacked. >>But it's not password 1 23 isn't protecting >>Cisco >>Right >>Now. Well, if you think about when you're securing infrastructure and the second component being zero trust, which assumes the network is completely insecure, right? But everything is validated. Resource to resource security is validated, You know, it assumes work from anywhere. It assumes the security comes back to that resource. And we take the combination of those two into identity, native access where we cryptographically ev, validate identity, but more importantly, we make an absolutely frictionless experience. So engineers can access infrastructure from anywhere at any time. >>I'm just flashing on my roommates, checking their little code, changing Bob login, you know, dongle essentially, and how frustrating that always was. I mean, talk about interrupting workflow was something that's obviously necessary, but >>Well, I mean, talk about frustration if I'm an engineer. Yeah, absolutely. You know, back in the day when you had these three tier monolithic applications, it was kind of simple. But now as you've got modern application development environments Yeah, multi-cloud, hybrid cloud, whatever marketing term around how you talk about this, expanding sort of disparate infrastructure. Engineers are sitting there going from system to system to machine to database to application. I mean, not even a conversation on Kubernetes yet. Yeah. And it's just, you know, every time you pull an engineer or a developer to go to a vault to pull something out, you're pulling them out for 10 minutes. Now, applications today have hundreds of systems, hundreds of microservices. I mean 30 of these a day and nine minutes, 270 minutes times 60. And they also >>Do the math. Well, there's not only that, there's also the breach from manual error. I forgot to change the password. What is that password? I left it open, I left it on >>Cognitive load. >>I mean, it's the manual piece. But even think about it, TR security has to be transparent and engineers are really smart people. And I've talked to a number of organizations who are like, yeah, we've tried to implement security solutions and they fail. Why? They're too disruptive. They're not transparent. And engineers will work their way around them. They'll write it down, they'll do a workaround, they'll backdoor it something. >>All right. So talk about how it works. But I, I mean, I'm getting the big picture here. I love this. Breaking down the silos, making engineers lives easier, more productive. Clearly the theme, everyone they want, they be gonna need. Whoever does that will win it all. How's it work? I mean, you deploying something, is it code, is it in line? It's, >>It's two binaries that you download and really it starts with the core being the identity native access proxy. Okay. So that proxy, I mean, if you look at like the zero trust principles, it all starts with a proxy. Everything connects into that proxy where all the access is gated, it's validated. And you know, from there we have an authorization engine. So we will be the single source of truth for all access across your entire infrastructure. So we bring machines, engineers, databases, applications, Kubernetes, Linux, Windows, we don't care. And we basically take that into a single architecture and single access platform that essentially secures your entire infrastructure. But more importantly, you can do audit. So for all of the organizations that are dealing with FedRAMP, pci, hipaa, we have a complete audit trail down to a YouTube style playback. >>Oh, interesting. We're we're California and ccpa. >>Oh, gdpr. >>Yeah, exactly. It, it, it's, it's a whole shebang. So I, I love, and John, maybe you've heard this term a lot more than I have, but identity native is relatively new to me as as a term. And I suspect you have a very distinct way of defining identity. How do you guys define identity internally? >>So identity is something that is cryptographically validated. It is something you have. So it's not enough. If you look at, you know, credentials today, everyone's like, Oh, I log into my computer, but that's my identity. No, it's not. Right. Those are attributes. Those are something that is secret for a period of time until you write it down. But I can't change my fingerprint. Right. And now I >>Was just >>Thinking of, well no, perfect case in point with touch ID on your meth there. Yeah. It's like when we deliver that cryptographically validated identity, we use these secure modules in like modern laptops or servers. Yeah. To store that identity so that even if you're sitting in front of your computer, you can't get to it. But more importantly, if somebody were to take that and try to be you and try to log in with your fingerprint, it's >>Not, I'm not gonna lie, I love the apple finger thing, you know, it's like, you know, space recognition, like it's really awesome. >>It save me a lot of time. I mean, even when you go through customs and they do the face scan now it actually knows who you are, which is pretty wild in the last time you wanna provide ones. But it just shifted over like maybe three months ago. Well, >>As long as no one chops your finger off like they do in the James Bond movies. >>I mean, we try and keep it a light and fluffy here on the queue, but you know, do a finger teams, we can talk about that >>Too. >>Gabby, I was thinking more minority report, >>But you >>Knows that's exactly what I, what I think of >>Hit that one outta bounds. So I gotta ask, because you said you're targeting engineers, not IT departments. What's, is that, because I in your mind it is now the engineers or what's the, is always the solution more >>Targeted? Well, if you really look at who's dealing with infrastructure on a day-to-day basis, those are DevOps individuals. Those are infrastructure teams, Those are site reliability engineering. And when it, they're the ones who are not only managing the infrastructure, but they're also dealing with the code on it and everything else. And for us, that is who is our primary customer and that's who's doing >>It. What's the biggest problem that you're solving in this use case? Because you guys are nailing it. What's the problem that your identity native solution solves? >>You know, right out of the backs we remove the number one source of breach. And that is taking passwords, secrets and, and keys off the board. That deals with most of the problem right there. But there are really two problems that organizations face. One is scaling. So as you scale, you get more secrets, you get more keys, you get all these things that is all increasing your attack vector in real time. Oh >>Yeah. Across teams locations. I can't even >>Take your pick. Yeah, it's across clouds, right? Any of it >>On-prem doesn't. >>Yeah. Any of it. We, and we allow you to scale, but do it securely and the security is transparent and your engineers will absolutely love it. What's the most important thing about this product Engineers. Absolutely. >>What are they saying? What are some of those examples? Anecdotally, pull boats out from engineering. >>You're too, we should have invent, we should have invented this ourselves. Or you know, we have run into a lot of customers who have tried to home brew this and they're like, you know, we spend an in nor not of hours on it >>And IT or they got legacy from like Microsoft or other solutions. >>Sure, yeah. Any, but a lot of 'em is just like, I wish I had done it myself. Or you know, this is what security should be. >>It makes so much sense and it gives that the team such a peace of mind. I mean, you never know when a breach is gonna come, especially >>It's peace of mind. But I think for engineers, a lot of times it deals with the security problem. Yeah. Takes it off the table so they can do their jobs. Yeah. With zero friction. Yeah. And you know, it's all about speed. It's all about velocity. You know, go fast, go fast, go fast. And that's what we enable >>Some of the benefits to them is they get to save time, focus more on, on task that they need to work on. >>Exactly. >>And get the >>Job done. And on top of it, they answer the audit and compliance mail every time it comes. >>Yeah. Why are people huge? Honestly, why are people doing this? Because, I mean, identity is just such an hard nut to crack. Everyone's got their silos, Vendors having clouds have 'em. Identity is the most fragmented thing on >>The planet. And it has been fragmented ever since my first RSA conference. >>I know. So will we ever get this do over? Is there a driver? Is there a market force? Is this the time? >>I think the move to modern applications and to multi-cloud is driving this because as those application stacks get more verticalized, you just, you cannot deal with the productivity >>Here. And of course the next big thing is super cloud and that's coming fast. Savannah, you know, You know that's Rocket. >>John is gonna be the thought leader and keyword leader of the word super cloud. >>Super Cloud is enabling super services as the cloud cast. Brian Gracely pointed out on his Sunday podcast of which if that happens, Super Cloud will enable super apps in a new architectural >>List. Please don't, and it'll be super, just don't. >>Okay. Right. So what are you guys up to next? What's the big hot spot for the company? What are you guys doing? What are you guys, What's the idea guys hiring? You put the plug in. >>You know, right now we are focused on delivering the best identity, native access platform that we can. And we will continue to support our customers that want to use Kubernetes, that want to use any different type of infrastructure. Whether that's Linux, Windows applications or databases. Wherever they are. >>Are, are your customers all of a similar DNA or are you >>No, they're all over the map. They range everything from tech companies to financial services to, you know, fractional property. >>You seem like someone everyone would need. >>Absolutely. >>And I'm not just saying that to be a really clean endorsement from the Cube, but >>If you were doing DevOps Yeah. And any type of forward-leaning shift, left engineering, you need us because we are basically making security as code a reality across your entire infrastructure. >>Love this. What about the team dna? Are you in a scale growth stage right now? What's going on? Absolutely. Sounds I was gonna say, but I feel like you would have >>To be. Yeah, we're doing, we're, we have a very positive outlook and you know, even though the economic time is what it is, we're doing very well meeting. >>How's the location? Where's the location of the headquarters now? With remote work is pretty much virtual. >>Probably. We're based in downtown Oakland, California. >>Woohoo. Bay area representing on this stage right now. >>Nice. Yeah, we have a beautiful office right in downtown Oakland and yeah, it's been great. Awesome. >>Love that. And are you hiring right now? I bet people might be. I feel like some of our cube watchers are here waiting to figure out their next big play. So love to hear that. Absolutely love to hear that. Besides Drew, not reply, if people want to join your team or say hello to you and tell you how brilliant you looked up here, or ask about your caddy days and maybe venture a guest to who that golfer may have been that you were CAD Inc. For, what are the best ways for them to get in touch with you? >>You can find me on LinkedIn. >>Great. Fantastic. John, anything else >>From you? Yeah, I mean, I just think security is paramount. This is just another example of where the innovation has to kind of break through without good identity, everything could cripple. Then you start getting into the silos and you can start getting into, you know, tracking it. You got error user errors, you got, you know, one of the biggest security risks. People just leave systems open, they don't even know it's there. So like, I mean this is just, just identity is the critical linchpin to, to solve for in security to me. And that's totally >>Agree. We even have a lot of customers who use us just to access basic cloud consoles. Yeah. >>So I was actually just gonna drive there a little bit because I think that, I'm curious, it feels like a solution for obviously complex systems and stacks, but given the utility and what sounds like an extreme ease of use, I would imagine people use this for day-to-day stuff within their, >>We have customers who use it to access their AWS consoles. We have customers who use it to access Grafana dashboards. You know, for, since we're sitting here at coupon accessing a Lens Rancher, all of the amazing DevOps tools that are out there. >>Well, I mean true. I mean, you think about all the reasons why people don't adopt this new federated approach or is because the IT guys did it and the world we're moving into, the developers are in charge. And so we're seeing the trend where developers are taking the DevOps and the data and the security teams are now starting to reset the guardrails. What's your >>Reaction to that? Well, you know, I would say that >>Over the top, >>Well I would say that you know, your DevOps teams and your infrastructure teams and your engineers, they are the new king makers. Yeah. Straight up. Full stop. >>You heard it first folks. >>And that's >>A headline right >>There. That is a headline. I mean, they are the new king makers and, but they are being forced to do it as securely as possible. And our job is really to make that as easy and as frictionless as possible. >>Awesome. >>And it sounds like you're absolutely nailing it. Drew, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having today. This has been an absolute pleasure, John, as usual a joy. And thank all of you for tuning in to the Cube Live here at CU Con from Detroit, Michigan. We look forward to catching you for day two tomorrow.