>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Okay, Welcome back, everyone. Cube coverage. Las Vegas live action. It was re invent 2019 3rd day of a massive show where our seventh year of the eight years of Abel documenting the history and the rise in the changing landscape of the business. I'm John for Bruce. To Minutemen, my co host. Our next guest Bill McGee, senior vice president, general manager of the Hybrid Cloud Security group within Trend Micro. So, this company, those guys now lead executive of the Cloud Hybrid. I have rid Cloud Security hybrid in there looking cute. >>And I've been to every reinvent, every single one. >>Congratulations. Thank you. >>Thank you. Nice to be >>here. So, eight years, what's changed in your mind? Real quick. >>Uh, wow. The Yeah, certainly. The amount of a dot Uh, the amount of adoption is now massive mainstream. You don't have the question. Should I go to the cloud? It's all about how and how much. Probably the biggest change we've seen is how it's really being embraced all around the world where a global company we saw initially a US on Australia type focused you K. Now it's all over the place and it's really relevant everywhere, >>you know, at least from my standpoint. And I have enough friends of mine in the security industry. When we first started coming to show, I mean security was here. Security is not only is so front and center in the discussion of cloud that they had all show for it here, so you know, it gives the 2019 view of security inside that the broader hybrid cloud discussion here, a re >>investor. Let me tell you a couple of things, kind of what we're seeing within our customer base and then what matters from a security perspective. So we see, you know, some organizations doing cloud migration moving. We're close to the cloud of various forms. Had a couple of meetings yesterday. One was college evacuating their data center. The other one was celebrating that two weeks ago they closed their data center, So that's a big step. Windows and Lennox workloads moving to the cloud and really changing existing security controls toe work better in the cloud. But certainly what a lot of these cloud builders are here for is, you know, developing cloud native applications. Originally back 78 years ago, that was on top of what's now seem like pretty simple. Service is like s three E. C two. I've got containers and server lists and other platforms that that people are using. And then the last thing. A lot of companies are establishing a cloud centre of excellence, and they're trying to optimize the use of the cloud. They still have compliance requirements that they need to achieve. So these are what we see happening and really the challenge for the customer. How do we secure all this? How do we secure the aggressive, aggressive cloud Native application development? How do we help a customer achieve compliance easily from a cloud centre of excellence? So that's where we see us fitting. And we made a big announcement a couple of weeks ago about a new platform that we've created. I would love to talk to >>love that. Let's dig into that. But first we were at reinforces Amazons First security, Carver's David Locked and I were talking about cloud security was on Prem security and then what's happening here and had a conversation with someone who was close to the C I. A. Can't say his or her name. And they said Cloud has changed the game for them because they're cost line was pretty much flat. But the demand for missions were squirrels going scaling. So we're seeing that same dynamic. You were referring to it earlier that costs and data centers is kind of flat. But the demand for application new stuff's happened, so there's a real increased her demand for APS. Sure, this is the real driver, how people are flexing and deploying technology. So the security becomes really the built in conversation, cracked comment on that dynamic. And what do you recommend? Well, so here's a couple >>of things we've seen, Really? You know, again, we've been doing private security for about a decade, and really it was primarily focused on one service of eight of us, which is easy to now that's a pretty darn big service and widely used within their customer base. There's no 170 service's, I think is the most recent number. So the developers are embracing all these new service is we acquired a new capability in October. Company called Cloud Conformity, based in Sydney, Australia, very focused on AWS, analyzes implementations against the eight of US well-architected framework. So the first step we see for customers is you gotta get visibility into use of the cloud for the security team. What service is air being used, then? Can you set up a set of security guard rails to allow those service is to be used in a secure manner. Then we help our customers turn to more detailed, specialized protection of easy to or containers or server list. So that's what we've recognized ourselves. We had to create a very modest version of what Amazon has created themselves, which is a platform that allows builders to connect to and choose what security service is they want. >>Road is your service bases and all the service's air. You guys now pick and choose the wall. Yeah, there's a main ones. What does highlight? So >>there's Yeah, I'll give you the ones where we provide a very large breath of protection. So in the what we're calling Cloud one conformity service. So that's this technology we acquired a couple months ago. It cuts across about 70 service is right now and gives you visibility of potential security configuration errors that you have in your environment now if it's in a deaf team, maybe not such a big deal. But if it's in production, that is a big deal. Even better, you can scan your cloud formacion templates on the way to being live. Then we have a set of specialized protection that you know will run on a workload and protect it protected containerized environment. A library that can sit within a server lis application. That's kind of how we look at it. All right, >>So, Bill, one of things of going to the more and more cloud for customers is that there's that shared responsibility. Modern. We know that security is everyone's responsibility. It needs to be built in from the ground up. How are your customers doing with that shift? And are they understanding what they need to do? There have been some pretty visible, like a weight. I really had to configure that. I've thought about that Amazons trying to close the gap on song. But for some of those, >>we've seen a big positive change over the years. Initially I would say that there was what I would call a naive perception that the cloud with magic and it was perfectly secure and that I don't have to worry about it, right. Amazon data did the industry a real favor by establishing the shared responsibility model and making crystal clear what they've got covered that you don't need to worry about anymore as a customer. And then what are the capabilities you still need? Toe worry about? They've delivered a set of security tools that help their customers, and then they rely on partners like us. Thio deliver a set of more in depth tools. Thio, you know, specialized market. >>You actually used a word that we've been talking about a lot this week. Naive. Yeah. So we said, there's, you know, the one letter difference between being cloud native meeting Cloud naive there. Yeah. What does it mean to be cloud native in the security world? >>Well, I would say what allows you to be so first, the most important thing in every customer's mind. I don't care how good the security capabilities you're helping with me with. If you're going to slow down the improvements that I've just made to my development lifecycle. I'm not interested. So that is the most important thing is, are you able to inject your security technology and allow the customer to deliver at the rate that they're currently or continuing to improve? That is by far the most important thing. Then it's our your controls, fitting into an environment in a way that that are as easy as possible for the customer. One part that's been very critical for us. We've been a lead adopter of the AWS marketplace, allowing customers too procure security technology easily. They don't actually have to talk to us to buy our product. That's pretty revolutionary >>about the number of breaches that I'm going on, What's changed with you guys over the year because new vectors air coming out at this more surface area. Obviously, it's been discussed. What's changed most in your I'll >>tell you what we're worried about and what we expect to see, although I would say the evidence. It's early, uh, the reality in our traditional data centers. They were so porous at runtime in terms of the infrastructure and vulnerabilities that it was relatively easy for Attackers to get in the cloud has actually improved the level of security because of automation, less configuration errors. Unfortunately, what we expect his Attackers >>to move to. >>The developers moved to the depth pipeline, injecting code not a run time, but injecting it earlier in the life cycle. We've seen evidence of container images up on Dr Hub getting infected and then developers just pulling in without thinking about it. That's where Attackers are going to move to the depth pipeline. And we need to move some of our security technology to the dead pipeline toe, help customers defend themselves. >>What about International Geo Geo issues around compliance. How is that changing the game or slowing it down? Or I'm sailing it or you talk about that dynamic with regions? Are you >>sure you know us is the most innovative market and the most risk taking market, and therefore people moved to the cloud quite bravely over this over this decade. Some of the markets So, for example, were Japanese headquarters company. In general, Japanese companies, you know, really taken to a lot of considerations before they make that type of big bet. But now we're seeing it. We're seeing auto manufacturers embrace the cloud. So I think those it was a struggle for us in the early days. How regional the adoption of Cloud was. That's not the case anymore. It's really a relevant conversation in every one of our markets. >>Bill. Thank you for coming on the Cuban Sharing your insights Hybrid Cloud Security Got to ask you to end the segment. Yeah, What is going on for you This year? I'll see hybrids in your title. Operating models. Cloud center, gravity clouds going to the edge or data center. Just operate model. What's on your mind this year? What are you trying to do? Accomplish what you excited >>about? What? We're really excited about what this product announcement we made, called Cloud One. And what Cloud one is, is a set of Security Service's, which customers can access through common common access common building infrastructure, common cloud account management and choose what to use. You know, Andy put it pretty well in his keynote where you know he talked about He doesn't think of aws, a Swiss Army knife. He thinks of it as a specialized set of tools that builders get to adopt. We want to create a set of security tools in a similar way where customers can choose which of these specialized security service is that they want to adopt >>Bill. Great pleasure to meet you and have this conversation pro and then security area entrepreneur sold his company to Trend Micro. This is the hybrid world. It's all about the cloud operating model. So about agility and getting things done with application developers. This cube bringing all the data from reinvent stables for more coverage after this short break.

>>coverage of eight of US Re invent 2019 continues in a moment.

>>coverage of eight of US Re invent 2019 continues in a moment.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back here on theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent 2019. And every once in a while, we have one of these fascinating interviews that really reaches beyond the technological prowess that's available today into almost the human fascination of work, and that's what we have here. >> Big story. >> Dave Vellante, John Walls. We're joined by Sebastien De Halleux, who is the CEO, oh, COO, rather, of a company called Saildrone, and what they feature is wind-powered flying robots, and they've undertaken a project called Seabed 2030 that will encompass mapping the world's oceans. 85% of the oceans, we know nothing about. >> That's right. >> And, yeah, they're going to combine this tremendous technology with 100 of these flying drones. So, Sebastien, we're really excited to have you here. Thanks for joining us, and wow, what a project! So, just paint the high-level view, I mean, not to have a pun here, but just to share with folks at home a little bit about the motivation of this and what gap you're going to fill. Then we'll get into the technology. >> So I think, you know, the first question is to realize the role of oceans and how they affect you on land and all of us. Half the air you breathe, half the oxygen you breathe, comes from the ocean. They cover 70% of the planet and drive global weather, they drive all the precipitation. They also drive sea-level rise, which affects coastal communities. They provide 20% of the protein, all the fish that we all eat. So, you know, it's a very, very important survival system for all of us on land. The problem is, it's also a very hostile environment, very dangerous, and so, we know very little about it. Because we study it with a few ships and buoys, but that's really a few hundred data points to cover 70% of the planet, whereas on land, we have billions of data points that are connected. So, that's why we're trying to fundamentally address, is deploying sensors in the ocean using autonomous surface vehicles, what we call Saildrones, which are essentially, think of them as autonomous sailboats, seven meters, 23 feet, long, bright orange thing with a five-meter-tall sail, which is harnessing wind power for propulsion and solar power for the onboard electronics. >> And then you've got sonar attached to that, that is what's going to do the-- >> The mapping itself. >> The underwater mapping, right, so you can look for marine life, you can look for geographical or topographical anomalies and whatever, and so, it's a multidimensional look using this sonar that, I think, is powered down to seven kilometers, right? >> That's right. >> So that's how far down, 20,000, 30,000 feet. >> That's right. >> So you're going to be able to derive information from it. >> You essentially describe it as, you're painting the ocean with sound. >> That's absolutely right, whereas if you wanted to take a picture of land, you could fly an airplane or satellite and take a photograph, light does not travel through water that well. And so, we use sound instead of light, but the same principle, which is that we send those pulses of sound down, and the echo we listen to from the seabed, or from fish or critters in the water column. And so, yes, we paint the ocean with sound, and then we use machine learning to transform this data into biomass, statistical biomass distribution, for example, or a 3-D surface of the seabed, after processing the sound data. >> And you have to discern between different objects, right? I mean, you (laughs) showed one picture of a seal sunbathing on one of these drones, right? Or is there a boat on the horizon? How do you do that? >> It's an extremely hard problem, because if a human is at sea looking through binoculars at things on the horizon, you're going to become seasick, right? So imagine the state of the algorithm trying to process this in a frame where every pixel is moving all the time, unlike on land, where you have at least a static frame of reference. So it's a very hard problem, and one of the first problems is training data. Where do you get all this training data? So our drones, hundreds of drones, take millions of pictures of the ocean, and then we train the algorithm using either labeled datasets or other source of data, and we teach them what is a boat on the horizon, what does that look like, and what's a bird, what's a seal. And then, in some hard cases, when you have a whale under the Saildrone or a seal lying on it, we have a lot of fun pushing it on our blog and asking the experts to really classify it. (Dave and John laugh) You know, what are we looking at? Well, you see a fin, is it a shark? Is it a dolphin? Is it a whale? It can get quite heated. >> I hope it's a dolphin, I hope it's a dolphin. (Sebastien laughs) All right, so, I want to get into the technology, but I'm just thinking about the practical operation of this. They're wind-powered. >> Sebastien: Yes. >> But they just can't go on forever, right? I mean, they have to touch down at some point somehow, right? They're going to hit water. How do you keep this operational when you've got weather situations, you've got some days maybe where wind doesn't exist or there's not enough there to keep it upright, keep it operational, I mean. >> It's a very good question. I mean, the ocean is often described as one of the toughest environments in the universe, because you have corrosive force, you have pounding waves, you have things you can hit, marine mammals, whales who can breach on you, so it's a very hard problem. They leave the dock on their own, and they sail around the world for up to a year, and then they come back to the same dock on their own. And they harvest all of their energy from the environment. So, wind for propulsion, and there's always wind on the ocean. As soon as you have a bit of pressure differential, you have wind. And then, sunlight and hydrogeneration for electrical power, which powers the onboard computers, the sensors, and the satellite link that tells it to get back to shore. >> It's all solar-powered. >> Exactly, so, no fuel, no engine, no carbon emission, so, a very environmentally friendly solution. >> So, what is actually on them, well, first of all, you couldn't really do this without the cloud, right? >> That's right. >> And maybe you could describe why that is. And I'm also interested in, I mean, it's the classic edge use case. >> Sure, the ultimate edge. >> I mean, if you haven't seen Sebastien's keynote, you got to. There's just so many keynotes here, but it should be on your top 10 list, so Google Saildrone keynote AWS re:Invent 2019 and watch it. It was really outstanding. >> Sebastien: Thank you. >> But help us understand, what's going on in the cloud and what's going on on the drone? >> So it is really an AWS-powered solution, because the drones themselves have a low level of autonomy. All they know how to do is to go from Point A to Point B and take wave, current, and wind into consideration. All the intelligence happens shoreside. So, shoreside, we crunch huge amounts of datasets, numerical models that describe pressure field and wind and wave and current and sea ice and all kinds of different parameters, we crunch this, we optimize the route, and we send those instructions via satellite to the vehicle, who then follow the mission plan. And then, the vehicle collects data, one data point every second, from about 25 different sensors, and sends this data back via satellite to the cloud, where it's crunched into products that include weather forecasts. So you and I can download the Saildrone Forecast app and look at a very beautiful picture of the entire Earth, and look at, where is it going to rain? Where is it going to wind? Should I have my barbecue outside? Or, is a hurricane coming down towards my region? So, this entire chain, from the drone to the transmission to the compute to the packaging to the delivery in near real time into your hand, is all done using AWS cloud. >> Yeah, so, I mean, a lot of people use autonomous vehicles as the example and say, "Oh, yeah, that could never be done in the cloud," but I think we forget sometimes, there are thousands of use cases where you don't need, necessarily, that real-time adjustment like you do in an autonomous vehicle. So, your developers are essentially interacting with the cloud and enabling this, right? >> Absolutely, so we are, as I said, really, the foundation for our data infrastructure is AWS, and not just for the data storage, we're talking about petabytes and petabytes of data if you think about mapping 70% of the world, right, but also on the compute side. So, running weather models, for example, requires supercomputers, and this is how it's traditionally done, so our team has taken those supercomputing jobs and brought them into AWS using all the new instances like C3 and C5 and P3, and all this high-performance computing, you can now move from old legacy supercomputers into the cloud, and so, that really is an amazing new capability that did not exist even five years ago. >> Sebastien, did you ever foresee the day where you might actually have some compute locally, or even some persistent-- >> So on the small Saildrones, which is the majority of our fleet, which is going to number a thousand Saildrones at scale, there is very little compute, because the amount of electrical power available is quite low. >> Is not available, yeah. >> However, on the larger Saildrone, which we announced here, which is called the Surveyor-- >> How big, 72 feet, yeah. >> Which is a 72-foot machine, so this has a significant amount of compute, and it has onboard machine learning and onboard AI that processes all the sonar data to send the finished product back to shore. Because, you know, no matter how fast satellite connectivity's evolving, it's always a small pipe, so you cannot send all the raw data for processing on shore. >> I just want to make a comment. So people often ask Andy Jassy, "You say you're misunderstood. "What are you most misunderstood about?" I think this is one of the most misunderstood things about AWS. The edge is going to be won by developers, and Amazon is basically taking its platform and allowing it to go to the edge, and it's going to be a programmable edge, and that's why I really love the strategy. But please, yeah. >> Yeah, no, we talked about this project, you know, Seabed 2030, but you talked about weather forecasts, and whatever. Your client base already, NASA, NOAA, research universities, you've got an international portfolio. So, you've got a whole (laughs) business operation going. I don't want to give people at home the idea that this is the only thing you have going on. You have ongoing data collection and distribution going on, so you're meeting needs currently, right? >> That's right, we supply governments around the world, from the U.S. government, of course, to Canada, Mexico, Japan, Australia, the European Union, well, you name it. If you've got a coastline, you've got a data problem. And no government has ever come and told us, "We have enough ships or enough data on the oceans." And so, we are really servicing a global user base by using this infrastructure that can provide you a thousand times more data and a whole lot of new insights that can be derived from that data. >> And what's your governance structure? Are you a commercial enterprise, or are you going-- >> We are a commercial enterprise, yes, we're based in San Francisco. We're backed by long-term impact venture capital. We've been revenue-generating since day one, and we just offer a tremendous amount of value for a much cheaper cost. >> You used the word impact. There's a lot of impact funds that are sort of emerging now. At the macro, talk about the global impact that you guys hope to have, and the outcome that you'd like to see. >> Yeah, you know, our planetary data is all about understanding things that impact humanity, right? Right now, here at home, you might have a decent weather forecast, but if you go to another continent, would that still be the case? Is there an excuse for us to not address this disparity of information and data? And so, by running global weather model and getting global datasets, you can really deliver an impact at very low marginal cost for the entire global population with the same level of quality that we enjoy here at home. That's really an amazing kind of impact, because, you know, rich and developed nations can afford very sophisticated infrastructure to count your fish and establish fishing quarters, but other countries cannot. Now, they can, and this is part of delivering the impact, it's leveraging this amazing infrastructure and putting it in the hands, with a simple product, of someone whether they live on the islands of Tuvalu or in Chicago. >> You know, it's part of our mission to share stories like this, that's how we have impact, so thank you so much for-- >> I mean, we-- >> The work that you're doing and coming on theCUBE. >> This is cool. We talk about data lakes, this is data oceans. (Dave laughs) This is big-time stuff, like, serious storage. All right, Sebastien, thank you. Again, great story, and we wish you all the best and look forward to following this for the next 10 years or so. Seabed 2030, check it out. Back with more here from AWS re:Invent 2019. You're watching us live, right here on theCUBE. (upbeat pop music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Good morning, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS re:Invent 19 from Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for theCUBE, and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy, tons of people still here. >> Lisa, 65,000, I'm sure the throats are a little bit raw, the feet are tired, but there's so much good information, and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. >> Yep, so much good information, in fact we have Dell EMC back, yes, we had them yesterday, there's more to talk about today, please welcome a couple of guests, we've got Nick Brackney, senior consultant, cloud product marketing, welcome to theCUBE, your first time. >> Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me. >> Lisa: And Bob Ganley, I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20. Senior consultant cloud product marketing, welcome back. >> Thank you. >> So guys, lots of news. AWS news shot out of a cannon, one of the things, though, that you can't help but talk about at any event is multicloud. Organizations, CIOs tell us on theCUBE all the time, we have inherited a multicloud, sometimes Dave Vellante calls it a crime scene, right, for various reasons, it's not necessarily strategic, but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing with your customer base, with respect, sorry, that's for Nick, to multicloud, what are you seeing, how are you helping customers navigate this? >> Yeah, I think that there's a lot of diversity in needs with our customer base, and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all the solutions that they need, and so that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload, and so as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state you said, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds, because otherwise, the crime scene turns into something that's a management headache for everyone. >> Nick, wonder if we could tease that out a little bit, because consistency's important, when I think about multi-vendor in the data center for years, VMWare did a pretty good job of extracting the certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past in giant cloud environment, so how do we make sure we learn from the past, and because skillsets are very different, the products underneath are very different, so while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, they've got the broadest and deepest environments, they are, if you're doing multicloud, they're going to be doing one of them, so bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that they've talked about, and all the pieces. >> I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum, you really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? We run into a lot of talk about containers, and containers is a great path forward to go cloud-native, and that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have 1000 apps, though, that currently sit on-premises, it's really challenging to make that move, and which ones do I replatform, which ones do I lift and shift, and so I think that's one of the things we're doing with our work with VMWare Cloud Foundation, is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers, so you can have a orderly progression towards cloud-native. >> Talk about the people part of it, I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob, and that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations, is it's not just about the technology, for many reasons. How do you help the people, 'cause part of that's cultural, and that's really a challenging change to undergo. >> You know, I think you have to meet them where they are, right, and that's, I read an article and someone said for analytics that most CEOs still are using Excel, there are all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when we're looking at the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMWare, that's a really easy move for them to make, because you can take your existing skillsets, the investments you've made in the software-defined data center, and now you can extend them to the cloud, and you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center, and you can move those to the cloud, so you're not surprised when you get there with all of the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. >> And I want to add to that, actually, because I think one of the underlooked aspects of this whole thing, is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges, and so I like to say security, for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on-prem, than in cloud, you're by definition at a riskier state. Same thing for compliance, same thing for automation, if you've got multiple different tools to use, it's just harder to do. So I think the consistency thing is very, very important. >> Excellent, Bob, you're the straight man for my next question here, because if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multicloud word. Yet the biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS, with customers, and with the ecosystem here has been Outposts, and absolutely, Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely, it is that extension between consistency, between the public cloud and in my data center, so I'd like to hear Dell's perspective, Outposts of course, hugely important. >> Sure, I think it'd be really easy or almost trite to say that "Oh, Amazon is justifying "the fact that there's on-prem infrastructure," right, I mean Andy comes out and says "97% of IT revenue is still on-prem." I think everybody understands that. I think it comes down to the following. Investment protection, trust, and choice. And investment protection is about, organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now, and clearly VMWare is the lion's share of on-prem virtualization today, so it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud, and there's a very natural path to do that. From the perspective of trust, when you look at on-prem infrastructure, who better to work with than Dell EMC, I mean we're number one at HTI, number one in servers, number one in storage, we know how to do on-prem, and now with Dell Technologies Cloud, we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. And the third thing is choice, which is, Outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell Technologies Cloud is either Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it, or, VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service, so we have the data centers as a service offering, we have the you manage it, mister customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business, and I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics, and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that we're helping organizations do with their on-prem. >> Bob, actually, just want to make sure I understand, when we talk about that managed service, the Outposts solutions with VMWare is expected in 2020, does that then roll under the Dell Technology Cloud offering on VMWare, I just want to make sure how that is expected to go. >> Yeah, so no it doesn't, because that's essentially the Amazon hardware with the VMWare stack on it, on-premises, and what we're offering for a data center as a service solution is VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as Project Dimension, which is the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMWare stack, very tightly integrated, so it's cloud-like operations on-prem. >> So similar consumption models, similar design points, but different hardware stacks. >> Well, multiple consumption models, which is, I think... >> Yeah, and I was going to say, one of the other things you have to look at, too, when you're thinking about, why now, why is this happening, and I think it's because people are starting to realize, something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model, and so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads, and I think that's great for customers, that's what they want, and that's what we're trying to build, ourselves. >> What are some of the, Bob, a question for you, aligning with Stu's question, this week, since the announcement of Outposts, what Amazon is doing there, announced last year, coming to fruition now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers, are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? >> Yeah, and we've been doing this for a while, right, so VMWare Cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VMworld of 2019, we announced it in 2018, we've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running within VMWare Cloud on AWS, and now looking at this data center as a service solution, as an extension to that on-prem. The thing that's cool about it is, they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software, it all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on-prem infrastructure, right? So it's a great solution. >> Nick, one of the things that always gets talked about here is, there's a big shift from CAPEX to OPEX at the show, one of the things that surprises me is customers get all excited, Amazon comes out with a new feature and they say, "Hey, we're going to give you Insights, "and we're going to save you 30% "over what you were paying last year, "just because you probably weren't configuring it great." In your world, if you came to a customer and said "Oh, hey, we oversold you stuff," and this there, they'd probably be walking you out the door, but Dell's been doing some interesting things, going more cloud-native with the economic model, maybe speak a little bit to that. >> I mean, I think it's something that's great, cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a small investment and scale out, and move more quickly, be more agile, and so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate and not have the cost be a barrier, by then extending that across our portfolio at Dell Technologies On Demand. So that's really about whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription or whether I want to purchase hardware up front, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on and then I'll start getting billed, but then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right, it's not actually unlimited, we sometimes see that even some clouds run out of space, but you're able to move quicker, you don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in, because it's already sitting there. >> Legacy businesses don't have that much time, because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset, and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them, take over that business if that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. >> Absolutely, but what really makes this really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right, so the thing is, there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, I always tell people "You spin up and spin down VMs, "you never delete data because that is super valuable "to your business," or, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right, cloud is really great when you're scaling up, scaling down, when you're flipping off the switch of the lights when you leave the room. If you leave it on all the time, it can add up, and so what's really nice, not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud, is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. >> Sorry, so Bob, one of the big themes at this show is transformation, you've got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud-native space, we always said, "They were the cloud-native companies, "they were born in the cloud." We said, "There are many companies now "that are becoming born again in the cloud." Bring us inside a little bit, what you're seeing, the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there, it requires executive management, involvement, and it is a radical change in the way you build your applications, and that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. >> It absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures, and that evolution is from physical to virtual, to now infrastructure's a service to add additional efficiency and automation, orchestration, now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud-native and containers, to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments and virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers, as they're looking at this next generation cloud-native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward so we've been adding cloud-native standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to our Dell Technologies Cloud Platform, and that allows organization to extend our investment, so that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at IT because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well, where we're completely integrating the on-prem infrastructure so that you can life cycle manage it in a automated fashion, and we're doing that both for infrastructure as a service and now for container as a service for Kubernetes. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. >> And Nick, I'd be curious, your viewpoint of this show, it's really a interesting mix of, you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas, so bring us inside some of the conversations you're having, how you have worked with some of those different personas. >> Well I think it's really interesting, 'cause the shift towards containers means a shift towards DevOps, and when you're looking at that, I think what's lost on the way is, when I talk to my friends who've spent a lot of time as ITOps folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, "Please roll it back." Whereas a developer thinks "Hold on, let me add some more "code to this, and we'll fix it that way." And so I think the challenge right now is, the burden is shifting, and it's shifting towards developers and one of the things, I think, with our solution and hopefully project-specific with VMWare, what's coming down the path, where they're injecting containers into vSphere, all of that, hopefully what's going to come out of that is, you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers, 'cause when you start doing DevOps, or god forbid DevSecOps, and you're burdening these people with all these responsibilities, how are they still going to innovate? That's really a big challenge, and I think, when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides, so it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives, they're not necessarily aligned. >> Yeah, it just, the quick note on that, in Warner's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board, "Everything fails all the time." That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world, and that's what that transformation is, a little bit uncomfortable for many of 'em. >> And speaking of being uncomfortable, Bob, you talked about cloud, especially next-gen cloud, brings up opportunity, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change, as you mentioned, operational change, but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you, what are in the respect of the opportunity but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make, and how can they avoid those? >> Yeah, so I mean the first thing is, I think that people having sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're missing in that is, there's so much exuberance, they're not thinking through, what does the workload need, what does the business need, and cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward, but you need to be thoughtful about what you do, and Pat Gelsinger talks about, there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics, and the laws of the land. I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light, so latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, around the shared responsibility model. When you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, "Wow, they're taking care of everything, "this is super easy." And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective, and if you fail to actually address those, then you might run into some problems down the line. >> Guys, good stuff, always so much to talk about, thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today, Bob, I'll probably see you again at the airport tonight. >> No doubt. >> We appreciate you joining Stu and me. And, stick around on theCUBE, 'cause later today, Andy Jassy, AWS CEO is going to be on. But for now, I'm Lisa Martin for Stu Miniman, thanks for watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back to theCUBE, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas for AWS exclusive coverage of Amazon Web Services re:Invent 2019. I'm John Furrier with Stuart Miniman. Want to thank Intel for sponsoring our two sets. Shout-out to them for the sponsorship bringing great content to you from SiliconANGLE. Our next guest is with the NFL, and Andy Jassy just consummated a deal here in Las Vegas with Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the National Football League, on a new strategic initiative to use next gen stats, Amazon cloud, that whole data infrastructure with the NFL to change the profile and posture for safety and for all the athletes. And the guest here, we have Dr. Jeff Crandall, who's the chairman of the NFL Engineering Committee. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> So I saw your guys' speech up there as part of the announcement with Dr. Matt Wood and a fellow NFL executive. This is a really cool initiative, because the NFL, you guys have a lot of data geeks there. You have an enormous amount of data. We see stat tasks and next gen stats from Amazon on TV. There's been a lot of advertising dollars doing that. Pretty cool. You're taking it to a next level. Explain the program you're doing. It's got $300 million in funding behind it. You started three years ago. Take a minute to explain. >> Sure, I think one of the things, it's $100 million, but-- >> Okay. >> Not quite $300 million yet. But if you look at it, it was part of an initiative the league developed to say what could they do about safety. I think part of the thing that not everyone recognizes is what the NFL does for safety and innovation, how much effort they put into that. So I'm part of an engineering effort called the engineering road map, and really what we want to do there is we thought there was an opportunity to transform the space for head protection by us putting our understanding in, creating tools, we could help those in the market develop better equipment and better protect our players. >> And so one of the things I'm learning is that you guys have tons of data, and I learned a fun stat that the fastest runner this year was running at, what, 22 miles an hour. >> Jeff: Yeah. >> But you guys are collecting a lot of data from the equipment, surface, everything. Can you explain some of the insight into the data collection, specifically the amount and diverse types. >> Yeah, that's one of the things that we've learned is in order to make effective interventions, you really have to have a handle on the breadth of what's going on on field, and in order to do that, it's a very fast, dynamic game, so you'd have to have a number of data sources coming in. You need to know about the game itself, the plays, the position, the particular play types. You need to know about the players. What speed, what's their position, what orientations, what routes. And then their environment, the surfaces, the equipment. What helmets are they wearing, what shoes. So we're trying to say what we have for extrinsic factors, what's in the environment, and then the intrinsic factors, what do the players themselves experience for factors. >> We know that data can be a differentiator, but it sounds like data like this will help the entire ecosystem. Can you speak a little bit to the medical community, the equipment manufacturers, the teams that have to build new stadiums. We've interviewed some of the architects that put a lot of technology into the stadiums themselves. So how does that data flow happen? >> Yeah, that's one of the things. We have so much data that we're able to create sort of an evaluation of what's happening to the players and what they're experiencing. And I think very few other sports, even, or very few other applications have that level of quantification. And so what we're looking at is how do each of those factors contribute to how players train, how players perform, how players are injured. And so by having that, we can come up with something we've called the digital athlete, which is essentially a virtual representation. And through that virtual representation, we start to understand how any of these factors influence the dimensions of performance and injury. It scales broadly to anything where the body would be stressed or loaded or trained. Any of those applications could benefit from what we're doing. >> So your simulation, that's a digital twin in parlance of IT nerds here. >> Sure. >> But this is a really killer idea because you can do many simulations that the cloud will provide, right? >> Jeff: Sure. >> I mean, and you got video to match it. So talk about that dynamic. 'Cause you got video and you got data points. >> Jeff: Yeah. >> They're kind of working together. >> Exactly. And so I think if you want to take the digital twin analog, I mean, one of the unique things about that is that you can have this virtual representation and you get this continuous input of feeds from sensors, from video, and you start to refine what that digital twin looks like, whether it's a player or whether it's a mechanical device. And the more feeds and the more data you have and the more time goes on, the better represented that is. And so that's really what we're gearing towards. >> Yeah, one of the things I abstracted out of the presentation was honestly, the head injuries, helmet, that's clear. That's got to get done. You're working hard around that. But there was a mention of lower body injuries, as well. So it's not just head. There's other things you guys are thinking about. Can you expand on what that might look like and how you guys are thinking about it? >> Sure, I mean, obviously we want to make sure whole body, head to toe, we're protecting the players the best we can. I think if you look from an injury frequency or an injury burden standpoint, time lost for players, lower limb is one of the major injuries in that calculation. And so what we're doing is we've been working on concussions and helmets for the last three or four years. We've been working on cleats and turf for a long time. We're starting to curate that data, and that will go into our digital twin, digital athlete platform. >> It's like they're having LIDAR. It's like when my car backs up and stops, maybe when there's a rollover coming over, an alert kicks the leg around the right spot. But this is what, the kind of thing you guys are thinking about, the rule changes and the innovation and safety is, you can actually make direct impact. So there was a rule change on kickoffs. >> Jeff: Sure. >> Talk about that dynamic, 'cause this is kind of a teaser of where things might go, right? >> Yeah, exactly. I think if you look at injury prevention, they obviously talk about where can you change? You can do it with engineering, you can do it with education, or you can do it with enforcement or rules. And what we've learned is that we can take the data we're gathering and do data-driven initiatives on any of those. We've done a kickoff rule that was informed by data. We've done a use of helmet, leading with the helmet rule. So I think the same underlying data leads to any of these application areas. >> And the results just on the numbers. You guys quoted some stats. What was the reduction in concussions last year? >> Last year there was a reduction in games of 29% for concussions. >> Awesome. >> That's great. I've been watching a lot of the 100-year football anniversary here, and it's evident how much technology has been having an impact. Gives us a little bit of how the AWS and NFL, where we'll see that going in the coming decades and beyond. >> So I think historically, we've had very strong medical, we've had very strong engineering. What we've been seeing, though, is we've been doing a lot of stuff manually. It's been very labor-intensive. We've had some wins and successes, as you just heard from last year, but now we're looking to scale and accelerate that. So building on what AWS brings to the table in terms of their data analytics, their cloud computing. We believe we can do a better job understanding what's happening on field and lead to interventions and innovations much more quickly, much more broadly than currently exist. >> For the folks watching, we're here at an IT show or cloud show. You guys are immersed in data, so you're leaning on AWS for a lot of the expertise on scale, machine learning. They got a lot of goodness in their portfolio, but you guys have the data. So for other companies that are looking at this transformation with the top-down leadership model that you guys have, what have you learned? What is some of the scar tissue you might have from the process you've been through? Any observations or learnings you could share around the order of magnitude, approaches. Is there some paths that you'd recommend? >> Well, I think one of the things we've learned is there's a hard way and there's a more efficient way. We've had as many as 17 people looking at videos, and it led us to believe, we've looked at more than 100,000 helmet impacts manually. There's got to be a better way. And so we actually spent two years talking with tech companies, exploring what was out there, before we came to this AWS partnership. So I think when we look at the future and look at the opportunities, I would say where we were bounded previously and we were looking at maybe an immediate horizon, now what we've said is let's wipe the slate clean. Let's see where we want to end up far into the future. Let's look at what we would build, something to be scalable that we could leverage. >> And this is a pretty significant announcement, 'cause Roger Goodell was here with Andy Jassy. So it's not just a tech deal. This is a bigger play here. >> Jeff: Yeah. >> Can you give some insight into the strategic impact of the AWS-NFL piece? >> So AWS has had a relationship with the league, and one of the primary things they've done is the next gen sport, the next gen stats, rather, tracking player motion on field. You know, you've seen a lot of the stats that come up in games. And so there was an idea how we could take data, leverage it. That was more for fan engagement. But that very same information, we've looked at collisions. We take next gen stats data with two players coming together. What's the closing velocity? What are the closing angles? And so I think what you've seen is how you can take this wealth of data in the NFL and by taking those that are sort of best in class and innovators with the data analytics and machine learning, what else can you extract from the data that may not have been evident without sort of a broader computing platform. >> You know, a lot of people look at the NFL. They see the big networks who cover the sport for the fan experience. There's kind of a nerd culture going on with NFL and the fan base. We've been hearing feedback all the time about theCUBE becoming a broadcaster for NFL. Has that been kicked around at Roger's level yet? (Jeff laughs) Has it gotten there? >> Well, I was thinking of doing digital twins of you guys. (John laughs) I was just sizing it up. But I'm not sure we're quite there yet. >> Dr. Crandall, thank you so much for coming on. Congratulations. What a great initiative. You guys are being transparent, forthright with your research. It's open. Congratulations. It's a good step. >> Great. My pleasure. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for coming on. I'm John Furrier, Stuart Miniman, with the NFL here as part of the big announcement on Thursday with Andy Jassy and the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, it's theCUBE getting you all the action here at re:Invent. We'll be right back with more after this short break. 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>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering A ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Vegas. It's the Cube, live from AWS reinvent 19. Lisa Martin here with John Walls and John. We've been hanging out with about 65,000 folks, or so >>just are best friends. But Wade talked about this just a little bit ago, but I really have impressed again with kind of discontinued energy and focus, and you know it's gonna go well beyond the show. But three days of back to back to back Great presentations, Great programming obviously show for still jam packed a really good show. Hats off Day W s >>absolutely right. The energy has not wavered one bit. And oftentimes, by day three, that challenge. There's so much excitement >>not out here, >>not in Vegas. Don and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guests to the Cube. To my left, we've got Jen Doyle, the VP of operations from one strategy, and Ricardo Madan, VP of technology products and service is from Texas is I got all right, give me carte Blanche on how to pronounce that, By the way. So guys, one strategy and Techsystems general store with you give her audience and understanding of one strategy. What you guys are way you deliver. Yeah, so we >>are a eight of us. Born in the cloud, dedicated partner of our Amazon Web service is we're premier consulting partner who focuses exclusively on delivering to our customers high quality. Eight of US expertise across industries. Yeah, so because we're exclusively in aid of us, it's a cost industries and pretty agnostics for customer size scale. So we have that unique capability to really dive deep on being the experts on the eight of us when our customers are the experts of their own business >>and tech systems. >>So tech systems Global Service is we are a full stack technology consulting professional service is GS I global system integrator on. We really pay attention to that term full stack because we cover every facet of the software systems operation have life cycle. But increasingly, in the last couple of years, what has been the heart and soul of our ecosystem of confidences and practices and capabilities has been cloud and even more so has been a W s, which is one of the reasons that we're super excited about coming together with one strategy. >>Cloud. Obviously, it's not. It's not a thing. It's the thing, right? So So we kind of moved that passed that when people come to your clients come to you and they will understand that this cloud experience, especially if they're if they're native cloud right there. Not not a legacy, not bringing stuff over. But they're gonna want to launch what's kind of the checklist that the preliminary of that elementary looked at you do to assess what their needs are, what they're like. It's what their opportunities are and kind of how you get them to start faking about exactly what they want to get done, because I assume it's It's a big shoulder hunch and a lot of questions about where do we go from here? So how do you get them to, I guess, oriented toward that conversation in that discussion, >>Yeah, so a lot of the way good place to start is just a really understand their business right now. It's no longer just a IittIe side of the house kind of discussion it's a whole business. So our first step is really to dive deep and understand their business schools, their culture and what their actual end goal is going to be. And so we have a really great part program that we partner with eight of us called the eight of US Well-architected Review program, which we were really fortunate to be one of the top initial partners selected for the beta program a few years ago and then a launch partner for them when they went public last year to really dive deep in, be able to figure out exactly what are they doing? What do they want to be doing and how to get there both on scale, vertically and horizontally, howto costs save and how to really make sure when they're doing it they're doing in a year fashion. >>And where are those conversations happening? Are they happening at the White Sea level, or is it really up, as Andy Jassy was talking about Tuesday? These types of transformations have to come from the executive senior level. Are you having these conversations with the heads of business? We've really been >>seeing that kind of transformation, and it's been phenomenal. Where that change in culture is no longer just the I t side of the house, it is senior leadership. Like Andy, Jassy said. It's now a holistic business approach where you need that alignment in the senior leadership down and that inclusivity in that kind of far and a lot of our conversations, you're getting everybody really buying into the eight of us cloud initiatives that are going on and keep me honest. I know on your side as well. Tech is experiencing a lot of that same thing >>indeed, in the wayto kind of, I guess, divide and conquer the vectors from where we lean in tow, handle those conversations and prioritize the needs and even deal with the different audiences Lisa, like you're talking about because, like Enterprise, I T owners and business owners, ultimately they care about making the business better, but they're approaching it from different lenses and a W s language. There is a methodology in a mindset called working backwards, and it really is the process of beginning with those goals those business goals that Jen talked about in framing them up just super tight. Before we talk about how many lines of code or how many servers are gonna be preventing. We don't want to even get into that. So we've got that really good flowing understanding of the quantified needs and howto really kind of celebrate what that is and then work backwards from there. That the conference Because it's such an all encompassing conversation, especially with enterprises that air nascent to the cloud, they've only dip their toe in the water. Kind of like what What Andy was talking about during his keynote a couple days ago uh, are specific methodology. Under working backwards, we break it up into two pieces. One is called Think big and one is called Act Now and act Now. Starting from there is usually for the folks, and that's like the technology solution there. Fluent enough, they're lucid enough and what their business is going to get out of cloud and out of a migration and out of native development. All that good stuff so we can kind of go right surgically in tow. Hey, how did we just make you better? Based on our combined expertise and our experience? Think big is a little bit more involved, kind where the question was going because you're thinking about O C M. Organizational change management. And how does that culture really In Stan? She ate itself to move fast and be agile and think in a lean way. And, oh, repurpose lots of skills and lots of roles that kind of go extinct after a while. So how do we take in all this? Great talents unorganised ation and UPS killed him. And next gen them to really operate inside of this new cloud ecosystem. >>So you're talking about really organizationally this leadership holster change or shift, if you will, Taking ownership of it from the very top. How do you characterized maybe what that mindset looks like today, as opposed to maybe 45 years ago? It's so easy to put it over. You know, just throw it over the I t guys and developers, and we're gonna focus on our marketing and our sales that we're going to know that you know that the C suite is there, right? Much more president, These kind of discussions. Yeah, you have to have that. Do you know >>how >>to drive that kind of fundamental change? >>For sure. I think a lot of it has to do with the accessibility that AWS Cloud is really bringing to the industry where it's now in such a easily integrating way and your entire business. It's sea level. As you say, down to the interns can have that same accessibility using that tool box. The eight of us allows for them to really jump in hands first and start making things right away. You could be spinning up instances within seconds. It's so simple for people at all levels of knowledge. It's not just the 20 years of I t. That could be the only ones to understand what's going on anymore. >>What are some of the barriers that AWS and Cloud are have removed that 5 10 years ago, customers were concerned with ABC that now those barriers have been mitigated, not be new barriers. But what about the evolution that you've seen A W s really sort of fuel, >>so that way could even think back to some of what What John you were talking about? The kind of erstwhile mindset was a very big iron one. You didn't really look ATT technology and I t as anything more than a utility. Now it's a competitive advantage. Not now you have. That's why you know, you have this whole concept of being a digital native and digital transformation. All these big words. They get so much air time. But that's really been an acceptance in an adoption that technology has gotten to the point where we're moving quicker, better faster is a function of celebrating CX customer experience and enhancing it and using technology to really make organizations move quicker, move faster, adopt new features into whatever their products that is, whether it's online or whether it's packaged whatever. And it's so I think those barriers that AWS has really kind of bubbled up to the surface and then sifted off has been that integration into the business. And that, that is, that's been a transformation that no other company has really enabled outside of AWS for years. Think about like Gartner and forced or an I. D. C. They would talk about the number one objective right is to be aligned with the business, but always in like a subservient role that was more of a foot forward in a leadership role that you see inside of these organizations >>used to be all those of the I t guys. >>Yeah, that's >>what the I t. Guys. Right? I mean, home on the whole thing. Saved. Go. If you look forward, then when you sit down with whomever and you're trying to walk them through their process and get evaluated, What their needs aren't so on so forth. What's the biggest hurdle you gotta get over with down somebody to say, You've got to be You've got to be totally present. This is your your i t offering should be. You should be cloud or your hybrid multi whatever you might be. But you got to be cloud What's the big challenge there? You think you really get somebody jumping in the deep end? >>Honestly, I would really say it's the culture change right now. It's been such a huge digital transformation. You can't deny that. But the culture transformation that's going along with that has really been phenomenal. And that's a lot of people who are at that point of starting their cloud journey, are starting to realize they have to change the way that they look at everything it, as you mentioned several times. It's not just the technical side anymore. It is the business side, and that's the big culture shift of getting over that. There's a lot of technical debt in there, with all the on creme in different areas that people have invested in. And honestly, right now, the day of lift and shift is gonna is kind of going away. It's all of the new cloud. Benefits, like surveillance and containers is really going to be revolutionary, but that education and enabling it really needs to be more prevalent in everybody's vocabulary. And not just the I t. Guy who could tell you about it. It needs to be the sea level, the enablers, the stakeholders in the middle that really understand what's going on. >>So could you talk to us about one strategy and tech systems coming together tell us a little bit about that, what you're doing together and how you might be an eight, an enabler of that cultural transformation that is absolutely linchpin. >>So there's that that enabler on that accelerator t kind of that that change and not to overuse the word accelerator. But that's just kind of one vector that we can talk about a little bit, and it's really what we're encouraging our customers to look at because they've got a broad choice of size of system integrators like us. But if you're not coming to the table with really depth of expertise, depth of expertise, that can help mute a lot of the complexity that were alluding to. Because even even though we've got so many benefits and so much growth happening inside the Ws world, there's 175 service is today. There have been 2500 feature updates releases across that portfolio Just this year alone, there's 5 to 10 new announcement today and then outside of the Ws stack, you've got hundreds and hundreds of other members of the Dev Ops Tool chain. They get bolted into that so that you know the way that we're kind of getting customers to overcome. Some of that reticence is by muting a lot of that, simplifying it and coming to the table with real accelerators, where we've invested collectively hundreds of thousands of lines of code that we've built and put together for AWS proprietary tools for better adoption, whether it's database freedom and getting like kick started off of your legacy oppressed database environments and into the the purpose built platforms inside of a W s, whether it's micro service's libraries and frameworks that we built for customers to help them start to decompose. Some of those those big, expensive, you know, high technical debt applications that General was talking about into micro service is to containerized to make him run faster in the cloud. So that's, you know, that's where we're leaning in from, Uh, not just with the expertise and the combined resume of hundreds of awesome engagements that we've moved customers to the cloud in and hundreds and hundreds of terabytes that we've moved. But it's it's doing it in a way where the customer knows that they've got a real leader here with them, side by side in the journey. And it doesn't happen in one or two conversations. I mean, this is going on across many different settings and demos and think big sessions like like we were talking about. It takes, it takes some time. >>Yeah, I mean that I think the combined family of Texas one strategy will really be phenomenal for our customers. 48% of the market right now is using AWS cloud and to keep up with that scale of innovation and growth. Just to be able to do that, businesses need eight of US experts and that's who we are. It's in our name our. We have one focus, one strategy and that's eight of us. We are developed based on the same agile, lean leadership principles the eight of us has and with the several competencies that we have. Such a Czar Data and Analytics Machine Learning Dev. Ops Migration Way have a proven track record of not only being the AWS experts but being able to be agile and grow with that same speed that eight of us ours to keep up with the training our teams on that expertise. And I think with tech systems, global footprint and ability to find these amazing talent combined with our skill set, we will be able to create a larger geographical footprint to deliver to our customers in a way that they will not only see our ability to deliver what they're doing but exceed their expectations. >>I imagine the amount of engagement that you're gonna have after an event like this three days you mentioned there after 175 service is that AWS is delivery the volume of announcements. It's incredibly challenging to keep up with that. Plus, there's 2500 sessions. You know, customers can't go to that many. So imagine there's gonna be a lot of leaning on one started Genentech systems to say, Help us deconstruct, deconstruct this digest all the opportunities here. So you guys air. I'm sure going to be very busy after this event. But we thank you for joining John and me today and telling us what you guys were doing individually and collectively together. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for our pleasure. For John. Walls were out. Vegas, baby, this has been the Cube. This is the end of our third day of continuous coverage of lots of stuff going on aws reinvent John. It's been a blast hosting a few segments with you >>as always. >>Nice job. See you next time. >>Thanks for having >>All right. I will see you next time. Thanks for watching

>>long from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin at AWS Reinvent 19. This is Day three of the Cubes coverage. We have two sets here. Lots of cute content are joined by Justin Warren, the founder and chief analyst at Pivot nine. Justin. How's it going? Great, right? You still have a voice? Three days? >>Just barely. I've been I've been trying to take care of it. >>Impressed. And you probably have talked to at least half of the 65,000 attendees. >>I'm trying to talk to as many as I can. >>Well, we're gonna talk to another guy here. Joining us from data ICU is well, Novak, the solutions architect will be the Cube. >>Thanks for having me. >>You have a good voice too. After a three day is that you >>have been doing the best I can. >>Yeah, he's good. So did ICU. Interesting name. Let's start off by sharing with our audience. Who did a coup is and what you guys do in technology. >>Yes. So the Entomology of date ICU. It's like hi cooze for data. So we say we take your data and, you know, we make poetry out of it. Make your data so beautiful. Wow, Now, But for those who are unaware Day like it was an enterprise data science platform. Eso we provide a collaborative environment for we say coders and clickers kind of business analyst and native data scientists to make use of organizations, data bill reports and Bill productive machine learning base models and deploy them. >>I'm only the guy's been around around for eight years. Eight years. Okay, >>so start up. Still >>mourning the cloud, the opportunity there That data is no longer a liability. It's an asset or should be. >>So we've been server based from the start, which is one of our differentiators. And so by that we see ourselves as a collaborative platform. Users access it through a Web browser, log into a shared space and share code, can share visual recipes, as we call them to prepare data. >>Okay, so what customers using the platform to do with machine learning is pretty hot at the moment. I think it might be nearing the peak of the life cycle pretty hot. Yeah, what a customer is actually actually doing on the platform, >>you know, So we really focus on enabling the enterprise. So, for example, G has been a customer for some time now, and Sergey is a great prototypical example on that. They have many disparate use cases, like simple things like doing customer segmentation for, you know, marketing campaigns but also stuff like Coyote predicted maintenance. So use cases kind of run the gamut, and so did ICU. Based on open source, we're enabling all of G's users to come into a centralized platform, access their data manipulated for whatever purposes. Maybe >>nobody talked about marketing campaigns for a second. I'm wondering. Are, is their integration with serum technologies? Or how would a customer like wanting to understand customer segmentation or had a segment it for marketing campaign? How would they work in conjunction with a serum and data ICU, for example? >>It's a great question. So again, us being a platform way sit on a single server, something like an Amazon ec2 instance, and then we make connections into an organization's data sources. So if using something like Salesforce weaken seamlessly, pull in data from Salesforce Yuka manipulated in date ICU, but the same time. Maybe also have some excel file someone you know me. I can bring that into my data to work environment. And I also have a red shift data table. All those things would come into the same environment. I can visualize. I can analyze, and I can prepare the data. I see. >>So you tell you it's based on open source? I'm a longtime fan of over. It's always been involved in it for longer than I care to remember. Actually, that's an interesting way t base your product on that. So maybe talk us through how you how you came to found the company based on basic an open source. What? What led to that choice? What? What was that decision based on? >>Yeah, for sure. So you talked about how you know the hype cycle? A. I saw how hot is a I and so I think again, our founders astutely recognize that this is a very fast moving place to be. And so I'm kind of betting on one particular technology can be risky. So instead, by being a platform, we say, like sequel has been the data transformation language do jour for many days now. So, of course, that you can easily write Sequel and a lot of our visual data Transformations are based on the sequel language, but also something like Python again. It's like the language de jour for machine law machine learning model building right now, so you can easily code in python. Maintain your python libraries in date, ICU And so by leveraging open source, we figured we're making our clients more future proof as long as they're staying in date ICU. But using data ICU to leverage the best in breed and open source, they'll always be kind of where they want to be in the technological landscape by supposed to locked into some tech that is now out of date. >>What's been the appetite for making data beautiful for a legacy enterprise, like a G E that's been around for a very long time versus a more modern either. Born in the Cloud er's our CEO says, reborn in the cloud. What are some of the differences but also similarities that you see in terms of we have to be able to use emerging tech. Otherwise someone's gonna come in behind us and replace us. >>Yeah, I mean, I think it's complicated in that there's still a lot of value to be had in someone says, like a bar chart you can rely on right, So it's maybe not sexy. But having good reporting and analytics is something that both you know, 200 year old enterprise organizations and data native organizations startups needs. At the same time, building predicted machine learning models and deploying those is rest a p i n points that developers can use in your organization to provide a data driven product for your consumers. Like that's amore advanced use case that everyone kind of wants to be a part of again data. Who's a nice tool, which says Maybe you don't have developers who are very fluent in turning out flashed applications. We could give you a place to build a predictive model and deploy that predictive model, saving you time to write all that code on the back end. >>One of the themes of the show has been transformation, so it sounds like data ICU would be It's something that you can dip your toes in and start to get used to using. Even if you're not particularly familiar with Time machine learning model a model building. >>Yeah, that's exactly right. So a big part of our product and encourage watchers to go try it out themselves and go to our website. Download a free version pretrial, but is enablement. So if you're the most sophisticated applied math PhD there is, like, Who's a great environment for you to Code and Bill predictive models. If you never built the machine learning model before you can use data ICU to run visual machine learning recipes, we call them, and also we give you documentation, which is, Hey, this is a random forest model. What is a random forest model? We'll tell you a little bit about it. And that's another thing that some of these enterprises have really appreciated about date I could. It is helping up skill there user base >>in terms of that transformation theme that Justin just mention which we're hearing a lot about, not visit this show. It's a big thing, but we hear it all the time, right? But in terms of customers transformation, journey, whatever you wanna call it, cloud is gonna be an essential enabler of being able to really love it value from a I. So I'm just wondering from a strategic positioning standpoint. Is did ICU positioned as a facilitator or as fuel for a cloud transformation that on enterprise would undergo >>again? Yes, great point. So for us, I can't take the credit. This credit goes to our founders, but we've thought from the start the clouds and exciting proposition Not everyone is. They're still in 2019. Most people, if not all of them, want to get there. Also, people want too many of our clients want the multi cloud on a day. Like who says, If you want to be on prim, if you want to be in a single cloud subscription. If you want to be multi cloud again as a platform, we're just gonna give you connection to your underlying infrastructure. You could use the infrastructure that you like and just use our front end to help your analyst get value. They can. I >>think I think a lot of vendors across the entire ecosystem around to say the customer choice is really important, and the customers, particularly enterprise customers, want to be able to have lots of different options, and not all of them will be ready to go completely. All in on cloud today. They made it may take them years, possibly decades, to get there. So having that choice is like it's something that it would work with you today and we'll work with you tomorrow, depending on what choices you make. >>It's exactly right. Another thing we've seen a lot of to that day, like who helps with and whether it's like you or other tools. Like, of course, you want best in breed, but you also want particularly for a large enterprise. You don't want people operating kind of in a wild West, particularly in like the ML data science space. So you know we integrate with Jupiter notebooks, but some of our clients come to us initially. Just have I won't say rogues that has a negative connotation. But maybe I will say Road road data Scientists are just tapping into some day the store. They're using Jupiter notebooks to build a predictive model, but then to actually production allies that to get sustainable value out of it like it's to one off and so having a centralized platform like date ICU, where you can say this is where we're going to use our central model depository, that something where businesses like they can sleep easier at night because they know where is my ML development happening? It's happening in one ecosystem. What tools that happening with, well, best in breed of open source. So again, you kind of get best of both worlds like they like you. >>It sounds like it's more about the operations of machine learning. It is really, really important rather than just. It's the pure technology. Yes, that's important as well, and you need to have the data Sinus to build it, but having something that allows you to operationalize it so that you can just bake it into what we do every day as a business. >>Yeah, I think in a conference like this all about tech, it's easy to forget what we firmly believe, which is a I and maybe tech. More broadly, it's still human problems at the core, right? Once you get the tech right, the code runs corrected. The code is written correctly. Therefore, like human interactions, project management model deployment in an organization. These are really hard, human centered problems, but so having tech that enables that human centric collaboration helps with that, we find >>Let's talk about some of the things that we can't ever go to an event and not talk about. Nut is respected data quality, reliability and security. Understood? I could facilitate those three cornerstones. >>Yeah, sure. So, again, viewers, I would encourage you to check out the date. ICU has some nice visual indications of data quality. So an analyst or data scientists and come in very easily understand, you know, is this quality to conform to the standards that my organization has set and what I mean by standards that could be configured. Right? So does this column have the appropriate schema? Does it have the appropriate carnality? These are things that an individual might decide to use on then for security. So Data has its own security mechanisms. However, we also to this point about incorporating best Retek. We'll work with whatever underlying security mechanisms organizations organizations have in place. So, for instance, if you're using a W s, you have, I am rolls to manage your security. Did ICU comport those that apply those to the date ICU environment or using something like on prime miss, uh, duke waken you something like Kerberos has the technology to again manage access to resources. So we're taking the best in breed that this organization already has invested time, energy and resources into and saying We're not trying to compete with them but rather were trying to enable organizations to use these technologies efficiently. >>Yeah, I like that consistency of customer choice. We spoke about that just before. I'm seeing that here with their choices around. Well, if you're on this particular platform will integrate with whatever the tools are there. People underestimate how important that is for enterprises, that it has to be ahead. Virginia's environment, playing well with others is actually quite important. >>Yeah, I don't know that point. Like the combination of heterogeneity but also uniformity. It's a hard balance to strike, and I think it's really important, giving someone a unified environment but still choice. At the same time. A good restaurant or something like you won't be able to pick your dish, but you want to know that the entire quality is high. And so having that consistent ecosystem, I think, really helps >>what are, in your opinion, some of the next industries that you see there really right to start Really leveraging machine learning to transfer You mentioned g e a very old legacy business. If we think of you know what happened with the ride hailing industry uber, for example, or fitness with Saletan or pinchers with visible Serge, what do you think is the next industry? That's like you guys taking advantage of machine learning will completely transform this and our lives. >>I mean, the easy answer that I'll give because it's easy to say it's gonna transform. But hard to operationalize is health care, right? So there is structured data, but the data quality is so desperate and had a row genius s, I think you know, if organizations in a lot of this again it's a human centered problem. If people could decide on data standards and also data privacy is, of course, a huge issue. We talked about data security internally, but also as a customer. What day to do I want you know, this hospital, this health care provider, to have access to that human issues we have to result but conditional on that being resolved that staring out a way to anonymous eyes data and respect data privacy but have consistent data structure. And we could say, Hey, let's really set these a I M L models loose and figure out things like personalized medicine which were starting to get to. But I feel like there's still a lot of room to go. That >>sounds like it's exciting time to be in machine learning. People should definitely check out products such as Dead Rock you and see what happens. >>Last question for you is so much news has come out in the last three days. It's mind boggling sum of the takeaways, that of some of the things that you've heard from Andy Jassy to border This'll Morning. >>Yeah, I think a big thing for me, which was something for me before this week. But it's always nice to hear an Amazon reassures the concept of white box. Aye, aye. We've been talking about that a date ICU for some time, but everyone wants performance A. I R ml solutions, but increasing. There's a really appetite publicly for interpret ability, and so you have to be responsible. You have to have interpret belay I and so it's nice to hear a leader like Amazon echo that day like you. That's something we've been talking about since our start. >>A little bit validating them for data ICU, for sure, for sure. Well, thank you for joining. Just to be on the kid, the suffering. And we appreciate it. Appreciate it. All right. For my co host, Justin Warren, I'm Lisa Martin and your work to the Cube from Vegas. It's AWS reinvent 19.

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Okay. Welcome back everyone. Cube coverage, Las Vegas live action ADA was reinvent 2019 third day of a massive show where our seventh year of the eight years of Ava when documenting the history and the rise and the changing landscape of the business. I'm Jon Favreau, Stu Miniman, my cohost, our next guest, bill McGee, senior vice president, general manager of the hybrid cloud security group within trend micro sold this company, those guys now lead executive of the cloud and hybrid hybrid cloud security. You've got hybrid in there looking through the queue and I've been to every re-invent every single one. Congratulations. Welcome to the cube. Nice to be here. So eight years. What's changed in your mind real quick? >>Ah, wow. The um, yeah, certainly the amount of adop uh, the amount of adoption is now massive mainstream. You don't have the question, should I go to the cloud? It's all about how and how much. Probably the biggest change we've seen is how it's really being embraced all around the world. We're a global company. We saw initially a U S on Australia type focused UK. Now it's all over the place and so really relevant everywhere. Oh Phil. I, you know, at least from my standpoint, and I have enough friends of mine in the security industry when we first started coming to the show, I mean security was here, security is not only is so front and center in the discussion of cloud that they had a whole show for it here. So, you know, give us the 2019 view of security inside that the, the broader hybrid cloud discussion here at Reinventure. >>Let me tell you a couple of things. Kind of what we're seeing within our customer base and then what matters from a security perspective. So we see some organizations doing cloud migration, moving workloads to the cloud. A various farms had a couple of meetings yesterday. One was call it evacuating their data center. The other one was celebrating that two weeks ago they closed their data center. So that's a big step. Windows and Linux workloads moving to the cloud and really changing existing security controls to work better in the cloud. But certainly what a lot of these cloud builders are here for is, uh, you know, developing cloud native applications. And originally, you know, back seven, eight years ago, that was on top of what's now seemed like pretty simple services like S three. Now you've got containers and serverless and other platforms that people are using. >>And then the last thing, a lot of companies are establishing a cloud center of excellence and they're trying to optimize their use of the cloud. They still have compliance requirements that they need to achieve. So these are what we see happening and really the challenge for the customer, okay, how do we secure all this? How do we secure the aggressive, aggressive cloud native application development? How do we help a customer achieve compliance easily from a cloud center of excellence? So that's where we see fitting. And we made a big announcement a couple of weeks ago about a new platform that we've created and you know, I'd love to talk to. >>Yeah, let's dig into that. Let's dig into that. But first when we were at was Amazon's first security conference, Dave latte and I were talking about wow, cloud security versus on prem security. And then what's happening here is I had a conversation with someone who was close to the CIA, can't say his or her name and that, and they said cloud has changed the game for them because their cost line was pretty much flat, but the demand for missions, which we're growing scaling. So we're seeing that same dynamic you were referring to it earlier, that cost in data centers is kind of flat, but the demand for application new stuff's happened. So there's a real increased her demand for apps. This is the real driver of how people are flexing and deploying technology. So the security becomes really the built in conversation. Correct. Comment on that dynamic. And what do you recommend while, so here's a couple of things >>as we've seen really. Uh, you know, again, we've been doing cloud security for about a decade and really it was primarily focused on one service of AWS, which is. Now that's a pretty darn big service. And, uh, you know, widely used within their customer base. There's now 170 services I think is the, you know, the most recent number. Um, so developers are embracing all these new services. We acquired a new capability in October company called cloud conformity based in Sydney, Australia. Very focused on AWS analyzes implementations against the AWS well architected framework. So the first step we see for customers is you got to get visibility into your use of the cloud for the security team. What services are being used? Then can you set up a set of security guard rails to allow those services to be used in a secure manner? Then we help our customers turn to more detailed specialized protection of or containers or serverless. So that's what we've recognized ourselves. We had to create a very modest version of what Amazon has created themselves, which is a platform that allows builders to connect to and choose what security services they want >>to help. Lota how broad is your service base? Is it all the services? Are you guys now pick and choose? I can't. It's hard to do all, but yeah, there's the main ones. What are the highlights? >>Yeah, I'll give you the ones where we provide, uh, a very large breadth of protection. So in the, what we're calling cloud one conformity service, so that's this, uh, technology we acquired a couple months ago. Um, it cuts across about 70 services right now and gives you visibility of potential security configuration errors that you have in your environment. Now, if it's in a dev team, maybe not such a big deal, but if it's in production, it is a big deal. Even better, you can scan your cloud formation templates on the way to, to, to being live. Then we have a set of specialized protection that will, you know, will run on a workload and protect it, protect a containerized environment, a library that can sit within a serverless application. So that's kinda how we look at it. >>They'll want, one of the things of going to the more and more cloud for customers is that there's that shared responsibility model. We know that security is everyone's responsibility. It needs to be built in from the ground up. How are your customers doing with that shift and how are they understanding what they need to do? There've been some pretty visible like, Oh wait, I really had to configure that. I'm not about that. And Amazon's trying to close the gap on some, bring us through some of those. >>We've seen a big positive change over the years. Initially I would say that there was what I would call a naive perception that the cloud was magic and it was perfectly secure and that I don't have to worry about it. Right. Amazon did a, did the industry a real favor by establishing the shared responsibility model and making crystal clear what they've got covered that you don't need to worry about anymore as a customer and then what are the capabilities you still need to worry about? They've delivered a set of security tools that help their customers and then they rely on partners like us to deliver a set of more in depth tools to a, you know, specialized markets. >>You actually used a word that we've been talking about a lot this week. Naive. So we said there's, you know, the one letter difference between being cloud native, I mean cloud naive there. What does it mean to be cloud native in the security world? >>Well, I would say what allows you to be so first the most important thing in every customer's mind. I don't care how good the security capabilities you're helping me with. If you're going to slow down the improvements that I've just made to my development life cycle, I'm not interested. So that is the most important thing is are you able to inject your security technology and allow the customer to deliver at the rate that they're currently or continuing to improve? That is by far the most important thing. Then it's are your controls fitting into an environment in a way that that are as easy as possible for the customer? One part that's been very critical for us. We've been a lead adopter of the AWS marketplace allowing customers to procure security technology easily. They don't actually have to talk to us to buy our product. That's pretty revolutionary. >>Talking about the number of breaches that have gone on and what's changed with you guys over the year because new vectors are coming out, there's more surface area. Obviously it's been been discussed what's changed most in years? I'll tell you what we're worried about and what we expect to see. Although I would say the evidence, it's early. Uh, the reality in our traditional data centers, they were so porous at runtime in terms of the infrastructure and vulnerabilities that it was relatively easy for attackers to get in. The cloud has actually improved the level of security because of automation, less configuration errors. Unfortunately, what we expect as attackers to move to the developers move to the dev pipeline, injecting code, not at runtime, but injecting it earlier in the life cycle. We've seen evidence of container images, uh, up on Docker hub getting infected and then developers just pulling in without thinking about it. >>That's where attackers are going to move to the dev pipeline and we need to move some of our security technology to the dev pipeline to help customers defend themselves. What about international geo geo issues around compliance? How is that changing the game or slowing it down or I'd say doubling it or can you talk about that dynamic? Because I'm sure with regions, I'm sure you know, the U S is the most innovative market and the most risk taking market and therefore people move to the cloud quite bravely. Uh, you know, over this over this decade. Um, and some of the markets, so for example, we're Japanese headquartered company, um, in general Japanese companies, you know, really, uh, take into a lot of considerations before they make that type of big bet. But now we're seeing it, we're seeing auto manufacturers, uh, embrace the cloud. So I think those, it was a struggle for us in the early days, how regional the adoption of cloud was. >>That's not the case anymore. It's really a relevant conversation in every one of our markets. Bill, thank you for coming on the Cuban sharing your insights on hybrid cloud security. I got to ask you to end the segment. Yeah. What is going on for you this year? I see hybrids in your title. That's obviously the, the operating model is clouds and are gravity clouds going to the edge or data center and just operating model. What's on your mind this year? What are you trying to do and accomplish? What's, what are you excited about? What we're really excited about was this a product announcement that we made called cloud one and what cloud one is, is a set of security services which customers can access through, you know, common, uh, common access, common billing infrastructure, common cloud account management, and choose what to use. You know, Andy put it pretty well in his keynote where, you know, he talked about, he doesn't think of AWS as, as a Swiss army knife. >>He thinks of it as a specialized set of tools that builders get to adopt. We want to create a set of security tools in a similar way where customers can choose which of these specialized security services that they want to adopt. Bill, great pleasure to meet you and have this conversation pro and then security area entrepreneur sold this company to trend micro. This is the hybrid world is all about the cloud operating model. So all about agility and getting things done with application developers, just cube bringing you all the data from re-invent. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break.

>>from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage in Las Vegas for eight of his re invent 2019 R Seventh year out of the eight years I've had it, we've seen the rise and dominance of Amazon continued to thunder away at the competition span. Their lead printing money stew minimum in my coz right here next to me. I'm John, very extracting from noise. Our next guest, steam A lady who's the presidency of Aviatrix Cube alone was on Tuesdays part of our editorial segment. Who his company or one of his employees going to term. You take the tea at a cloud native cloud naive, which has been going viral. Welcome back to the Cube. Thank you. All right, so let's get into the aviatrix value. Probably wanna get digging more, but first explain what you guys do and what market you're targeting. >>So we do. I would say cloud native, not naive. Cloud native networking that embraces and extends the basic constructs the native constructs of the public clouds, not just a W s, but all the public clouds and builds a multi cloud architecture, networking in security architecture for enterprise customers that that delivers the simplicity and the automation that people want from cloud. That's why they want a cloud native but yet brings along the functionality, the performance and the visibility and control that they had on on Prem. So that kind of taste great less filling, not one of the other. Both. I want the simplicity and automation of anything that expect from the cloud. But I need that enterprise functionality that control the security, the performance that he used to have on Prem because I wasn't doing that for my own health. I need to bring that along. That's what we do. >>What main problem you solving for customers? What's the big pain point? So what are you enabling? >>The big pain point is the center of gravity, as Andy Joshi's talked is moving from on Prem into the cloud. So it's so it's no longer. I mean, data centers aren't going away. They're going to still be there. But the investment architecture is in the cloud and you're going to see the clouds start moving out with their their announcements. You see everything that outposts and on everything else they're doing is taking the architecture moving out. The problem we solve is A W S says to every enterprise customer. We will give you anything and everything you ever need from networking and security. You don't need anybody else. And so so what ends up happening is as enterprises. So for an SNB, that's great. If you've got a few, VP sees life is good. Use all the native stuff from AWS. What happens, though, is your Qualcomm or your USA or your new name it big 50 year old 100 year old enterprise. You have complex networking and security demands. You go to the cloud. There's so many limitations of what the native constructs of all the clouds could do. You start realizing, okay, I need Maur. And so we're very complimentary to AWS. We sit on top of that. We leverage those basic constructs. We program those contracts and then we extend that functionality to deliver the functionality that they need. >>That's awesome, stupid when I want to dig into that, but I want to first get to the hard news you guys have news here at reinvent? What's the big news story that you guys were putting out there? Two >>announcements and actually goes perfectly with the way the world's going and also with the embrace and extend of a W s. So the first is we introduced what we call aviatrix Cloud win. So they announced Transit Gateway Network manager with accelerated VPN leveraging global accelerator as just a way to bring in basically embraced branch offices into the cloud. So if you think of SD win in that market, if your if your center of gravity is on Prem in a data center on pls is horrible, you needed a better way to do branch office connectivity. SC wait is fantastic, and it's a great, optimal way to get back to that data center. Well, as the center of gravity moves into the cloud, their data centers in the cloud. I just need to get better optimal access performance in late and see into a W s because that's the center of gravity. So AWS with the global accelerator allows youto get on one of their 250 pops around the world as quickly as possible. So if you're in Singapore, get on that pop VPN in, and then you go across the global backbone of AWS all the way out to that BBC in Virginia. It's beautiful, because guess what? That is the most optimal way to get there instead of vpc to vpc across the Internet right on the AWS backbone. Well, Steve, it's fascinating stuff because if you look at the traditional network, it was I knew the knobs and how I need to get everything to work. But the big challenge for most network people is most of the network that they're responsible for. They can't touch it. That's right. They can adjust it. So are we recreating some of the environment? Or how? Because clubs supposed to be simple? Well, that's easy, but it needs to meet the enterprise requirements. Help that network administrator there there, sometimes going away to the cloud administrator. You still networkings tough and therefore, how do we make that? That's part of what we do is that's the other thing that we solve is people think they go to the cloud and they think, Oh, go build. I don't want to build anything. I want to consume. It's still difficult. We come in and abstract away a lot of the details for them such that we deliver that service on the cloud win. The other thing that we do again, back to embracing and extending. What do you What? What router is out in that branch office 87% of the time. Sisko, right? I mean, course it is. So the S D wearing guys will go in and say, We'll rip that box out and put in another little box like a 20,000 branches. I'm not ripping out anything, right? That's very painful. So with our cloud win, we can orchestrate and reconfigure the Sisko. All of our engineers came from Cisco. So any Cisco IOS router out there, we can orchestrate and reconfigure to set up the VPN automatically through our orchestrator so that when you don't rip and replace out that Roger that's existing there. So now AWS loves it because that's the last piece of friction. They want no friction, and it's always in that physical to cloud transition There. All the complexity is, and by enabling their network manager and an accelerated VPN and global accelerated to use the existing Cisco. Roger, that's out there. No one else does that Cisco doesn't do that. We're the only ones. So when you embrace a native construct, what's the native construct in the branch office? B, G P. And Cisco IOS. We embrace it and then and then enhance it and make it better. >>Are you only on Cisco about June 1st? >>Wait. Now it's just go. Francisco's 87% >>of every bridge your software abstraction software across. And you you basically change the game with SD. Win a little bit, you modernize >>It s t win is great for the old way of doing networking. When you look for the next five years, you're still gonna need SD went. It's a bubble market. It's like when optimization us riverbed. If when optimization is a great market, it was for a while, just like SC win. But that's kind of the old way. But Maur Maura, what you're gonna find is what Where my branches need to connect to is in the cloud. And if you do that, you don't need esti win. You just need better connectivity. Tate of us provide. >>I gotta ask you the question about the cloud naive because there's a lot of old school I t people who still think there's food in the data center. Still, action there on box makers are all in the vendor side supplying boxes. They're still want to supply boxes, right? So as those old guys and gals do their thing, they're stuck in their ways, right? That's friction. Total gas. He talks about the transformation as new leadership. What has to change in that old world? What should those C I ose and CEOs tell their their staff? And what should the staff do themselves? >>I actually think the customers air there. I think the vendors are that the vendors are the one that aren't They're the ones who are cloud naive. They actually don't even know what they don't know. The customers are the ones they say, Oh, no, And this is the whole shift that Josh was talking about business transformation. They understand. And they are bringing along all their people and they have some people that are probably further along and experts in AWS. But they absolutely number one requirement for them is we've got to bring along the people they don't want to leave them behind and say, You get to work on the old data center and these guys are gonna work in Cloud. They're bringing them all in. >>Talk about your customers who's buying from you? What's it look like? What kind of scope do you have? A customer base? >>It's funny. It's It's It's all the old networking guys. It is not. It's not developers signing that. It's it's It's old. I t. Now they don't want to do it the old way. They want to do it the new cloud way. But these guys understand BDP. They understand networking, and they're in charge now. And so it's like because it's gotten so serious for enterprises. This the networking team, the security team it is. It is I t that is running this, so that's a big company. Small companies, we get him. All right, Steve, I want to make sure I understand this because when I hear cod Native, I really think a lot about that application. Mind shift. Yeah, Micro Service is our protector, and that's on it for sure. Networking. Unfortunately, for the most part, it's nothing. Bites are going through the pipes, and I haven't really thought about that. So you know, it's not just because it's cloud but cloud native and therefore things like your container and doctors Dr. Rise thing. This is what this world is built for that your solution is solving for yes. So I'll give you a perfect example. So So we help. We actually helped a dhobi us come out with T g. W. Last year, Cheri, I found, was on stage with Day Brown and the networking keynote launching T g w whenever Great. Of course, before that, you were just doing bpc the vpc peering It was a horrible mess. So you need a transit architecture. So they came out with T g w Fantastic. So we embrace and extend T g w. So the problem is, they come out with T g. W. But guess what a Doris doesn't do. Don't propagate routes to spoke VP sees. Okay, so how did the routes get propagated? Well, you have a person. They need manual. If there's an update on the on from you manually update the routes. Well, that might work. If you've got three. VP sees again. You're an SNB. But I'm an enterprise. I got 3000 vpc That is not gonna work. So cloud native we are We are not just sitting on top of AWS. We are in the matrix we are in. We understand natively. So our central control, it will actually like we're not. There's no b g p running at that layer, but our central control it will push routes an update, routing tables everywhere. It needs to be learned. The routes from Amman Prem push it where it needs to be, and then everything automatically works. Yeah, it reminds me, you know, we had more than a decade ago. We went from all the north south traffic to the East west, propagated by VM. Yes, is an order of magnitude 8 12 and know that this cloud environment people can't do it. There's not enough people. I don't have enough man hours because the machine learning So here's devices need to be here. Another thing that's happened in guys is there is there is 100% of people in there in the universe that that that no cloud, that number's growing, but there's a fixed set. Everybody's going after all those people. You've got the big clock. They're all hiring like crazy. The vendors are probably hiring. You've got customers they're stealing from each other. It's very difficult to keep a staff. And so they look and they say I probably could figure this out, but there's no way I'm going to be able to operationalize it. There's just zero chance I could do that And there's just so much change. And honestly, they say it's a full time job just keeping up with what Amazon is announcing their get implementing. And so that's where they look and they come to Austin. They say there's zero chance that I can deploy networking architecturally without aviatrix >>on the network and guys because you and I always say the neighboring guys have the keys to the kingdom. They always have. I mean, people have tried to move the center of power away from the networking guys, But now, as the cloud gets the center of gravity, some of the power networking guys got to step up their game. But they don't want to rip and replace anything is as you went out earlier. It's complex, even pull one or two out. So the concern that I might have put the question to you is Steve. Great, great energy. But I'm really nervous that these routes are not gonna be. There's gonna be some coherency issues around updating routes because that's my number one concern. How do you guys solve that? >>Well, the one thing I've always seen, who's the worst? When? When? When most things happen, Who's the culprit? Human, right? It's always a human. Does something wrong. And so I would much rather trust some sort of automated software because at least if you program it correctly, it's going to do the right thing so way have not had. I mean, it's so >>you know what I'm sure is no issue there. >>Yeah, no, there's no issue, I mean, and what we do see, sometimes our people say, because there's a lot of people that are that are very smart, they get into the cloud and they are do it yourselfers and they love to go build, and they love the complexity, and they want all that they feel they feel like this job security and what we sometimes have to do is say you. But think about day to think about handing off the operations. You might get hit by a bus, and then your company is screwed, and you gotta almost get them enlightened to realize that they should be working on higher level things other than low level things. I'd say that's something that we kind of educate. People, >>houses Amazon there, one cloud of many 34 maybe one or two jazz. He said to me. You know, mostly primaries will be picked, probably Amazon. But in some cases, as you will be a primary less than that eight arrests. So multi cloud is the word that it was Something about an Amazon sees me loosening up a bit what it is, so they recognize it. What is multi cloud? I mean, what is really going on? I think >>I think if you're a small company, absolutely pick one cloud like for sure, right, like that doesn't make sense to go multiple clouds in your small medium business. If you're not that, if your needs are not that complex, pick one cloud right? And if it's a Toby asses the later stay with them. If it just happens to be, well, I got a bunch of credits and azure. Okay, maybe do them. I think. To date most people are picking eight of us There, there, there, there, The killer here. But when you talk to the enterprise, the real enterprise right that are just now moving into the cloud, they're all multi cloud Just had one today. Super large chip company down L a San Diego area. Guess what. Use it. All three clouds. I asked him why. Well, because we started in AWS. We got some things there we've got. We've got a bunch of stuff that runs and an azure with offers 3 65 other things that they dio and Google for ml and that kind of stuff. It runs better their enterprises. They're gonna pick where the workload run best, and they're big. And so they're gonna look and they're gonna They're gonna They're gonna elevate up building architecture that works across all of them. I don't think multi cloud means I'm gonna move this workload from here to here. That's never gonna happen. Maybe in 20 years. But I doubt it. It's just that the workloads heir destined, they run better on that and they're gonna focus on >>different park loads for the cloud that picked the right guy for the right workload. >>Yeah, and I'm so big and I require different companies and I get acquired. And and and And you got to think of the on Prem data centers eyes another cloud that's a multi. And then I go into Europe, and I have GDP are and I need another cloud. I mean, they're gonna have 45 clouds, and I don't think it's gonna be 20% across all >>that could be a power lot. They'll be more than 13 closets. Be specialty clouds a riff on this all the time. Well, Steve, I want to thank you for coming on the Q. Appreciate it. Give a quick blood for the company. How many employees you're gonna hire, some of your objectives >>growing fast. We've got over 400 customers and you ask one of our customers we've got customers spending millions of dollars a year with us all the way down the customer spending $5 a month. Why? Because of the wonderful thing of cloud they can consume. We've got 400 customers all over the world and even know who probably 300 of them are right. Why they go on the market place they go like this, they download. Maybe they come on drift. Ask one question. They launch and they spent $5 a month. I don't even know what they're doing. And eventually we watched their Amar are it just grows and grows and grows and grows. And eventually like, Whoa, Now you're spending 50 grand a year. We should talk. So it's kind of like how some companies used open source that ends up being our funnel a low friction zero friction High velocity Landon expand model. And then we have the traditional enterprises that you'd imagine every so everything in between >>your hiring, >>we're hiring like crazy, hiring a whole bunch of sales organization around the world. We just raised $40 million Siri see a month ago and we're going for >>fresh financing. Aviatrix see Mulaney, CEO of aviatrix here on the Cuba Reinvent 2019 Stay with us for more coverage. Day three of our three days of World War coverage Two sets here, thanks to Intel for the being our headline sponsor without their supporting our mission, which is bringing you the best confident possible. We want to thank Intel on. All of our sponsors were right back with more coverage after this short break

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back inside the Sands. We are in Las Vegas. We are live here on theCUBE along with Dave Vellante, I'm John Walls. We continue our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2019 by welcoming in Erik Kaulberg, VP of cloud solutions at Infinidat. Erik, good to see you today. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks, it's nice to see you too. >> So share a little bit at home for the folks who might not be too familiar with Infindat. I know you guys, big in the, in data storage, in terms of what's happening in the enterprise, but shed a little bit of light on that for us. >> Yeah, so Infinidat's all about re-inventing the next generation of data storage at multi-petabyte scale, whether that's for on-prem appliances where we have over 5.4 exabytes deployed now around the world, large enterprises, or whether that's through our cloud services like Neutrix Cloud, which we're talking a lot about today and through the conference, we're solving large data challenges for customers with blocker file storage requirements. We're doing that through technology that gets the price point of hard drives with the performance capabilities of solid state media, DRAM and flash, and we're doing it at very large scale, even though we kind of fly under the radar a bit from a marketing standpoint. >> So there's a lot of interesting things going on. Good storage demand. There's no question that the cloud is eating away at some of the traditional on-prem, and there's very few companies that are gaining share rapidly. You happen to be one of them. You know, Pure Storage grew 15% this quarter. Much, much lower. You know, generally HBE's shrinking. I think Delium C grew a little bit. You know, IBM has been down. I don't think they've announced yet. So you're seeing a couple of things. Cloud eating away, and then all this injection of flash. You're really the only guys who can make spinning disk run faster, as fast as flash. Everybody else is just throwing flash at the problem. And that's created headroom. So what are you guys seeing, 'cause you're clearly growing. You're a market share gainer. You have the advantage of being new and smaller. Talk about your business and how you're growing and why you're growing. >> It's nothing but growth, and it comes from this increase in the overall data that, requirements that customers have, and it comes from the economic aspects of that data. Fundamentally, data storage is all about economics, and we're able to deliver through our technical advantage of blending disk, flash, and DRAM an order of magnitude cost basis advantage, and that translates into direct financial benefits that allow ultimately enterprises to do more with their data. That's what we're all about. >> So as workloads shift to the cloud, there's an on-prem component. We're going to talk about cloud, multicloud, hybrid cloud, et cetera. But you've got a product called Neutrix. Talk about that and where it fits into this big macro trend that we've just been talking about. >> Absolutely. So Neutrix fits into the broader landscape in a couple of ways. First of all, many of the clients that we deal with are large enterprises, and they're in their relatively early stages of cloud transformation. So Neutrix provides an easy on ramp for them to come from our best in class on-prem infrastructure and make that data accessible in one or multiple clouds. And that kind of, maybe it's for test dev. Maybe it's for a disaster recovery, a pilot light scenario, or a couple other use cases for general purpose primary data storage. That's their on ramp to then taking advantage of the more strategic value of Neutrix, which is allowing clouds to compete for the business on the compute side of things. >> You kind of hit a key word in there. I'm talking about transform. And we've talked about that a lot, transformation versus transition, in terms of storage capabilities, enterprise storage capabilities, whatever. Take us through that transformation, if you will, and not the transition, and what's the paradigm change? What's going on in that space that's requiring people tom ake this dive into the deep end, if you will, and not just tickling the water with their toes. >> Well, I think there's two elements to it. There's a business and kind of a philosophical reorientation around taking advantage of flexible resources and allowing infrastructure to change over time and pay opex-based business models, that sort of stuff, and getting comfortable with that honestly is a journey into and of itself, because many procurement organizations, especially large organizations, they don't know what to do with a monthly bill or an uncommitted reserve amount or things like that. So part of it is being able to walk with the customer as they transform on the business side of things, and then the other side is accepting and going down the path of variable workloads, being able to accommodate large varieties of mixed data environments, and be agile on the technology side so that you can put the data where it needs to be with the performance that it needs to be and with the capabilities that it needs to be. >> All right, so we're pressed for time, so I really want to get a few topics in. For now, I see three main opportunities, broadly. One is on-prem, stealing market share. We talked about that a little bit. Two is this multicloud thing, and we'll talk about that, as well. If you're an on-prem company, you got to have a multicloud strategy, and even if you're a pure cloud company, you got to have a multicloud strategy. And the third is the cloud. You've got to embrace the cloud. If you deny the cloud, you're denying the biggest trend. So let's start with the cloud. What's your cloud strategy? What's your relationship with AWS and how are you taking advantage of that? >> So we're all about delivering our data services in whatever means, whatever physical infrastructure, whatever underlying business model the customer requires. With that in mind, we deliver Neutrix Cloud as a service for use with major public cloud environments, including AWS, and our relationship with AWS, you know, they recognize, I think, they would say that we bring access to large-scale, tier one environments all around the world coming from our base on the on-prem, and they're very interested in obviously working with the customers on cloud transformation at the scale that we operate, as well, so it's a mutually beneficial partnership. We're proud to be an APN member and all of that sort of thing. >> Yeah, I mean, if you can put your stack in the AWS cloud, which is what you're doing, it's going to drive other services, right? It's going to drive ML and SageMakers and backup and all kinds of great things. >> Absolutely. >> So the storage guys at AWS may not love you, but everybody else at AWS is going to be happy because you're driving other services. All right, let's talk about multicloud. It's obviously a controversial topic. We've got, John Furrier every year does a exclusive interview with Andy Jassy, and he's on the record, and I think he's right. He says, look it, multicloud is going to be more complex, less secure, and more expensive. He's right. And he goes, but he also recognizes that there are multiple clouds out there, and so organizations have to participate in multicloud strategies. I've predicted, as have Stu Miniman and John Furrier, Amazon's going to participate in that someday. They're going to do what they're doing in hybrid. So Amazon looks at multicloud as multiple public clouds and on-prem as hybrid. Coming back to Infinidat, what's your multicloud strategy? >> So the great thing about our strategy is that we're able to deliver the same data in whatever public cloud environments the customer wants to deploy. So we actually run our own independent infrastructure that sits just outside the walled gardens of all the major public clouds, and then we can provide network connectivity using their direct connect interfaces or similar private network interconnects, all API-driven, customer doesn't have to think about the underlying infrastructure, and fundamentally it allows them to subscribe to our storage as a service directly in whatever public clouds they choose. >> And now let's talk about the on-prem piece of that, which is the hybrid component, using Jassy's sort of definitional framework. You've got Flex. That extends your on-prem story. Talk about that a little bit. >> Absolutely. So our customers are saying, "Hey, I want the public cloud business model "on the on-prem environment," and Flex is our answer to that kind of question. So we deliver essentially hardware independence, price per gig per month. We maintain title to the asset, all that sort of stuff. And we're in charge of refreshing the infrastructure every three years, and we back it with a more than public cloud level availability guarantee, 100% availability guarantee for the Flex business model. >> We've seen companies, flash-based products as backup targets. Infinidat uses a combination of flash and spinning disks to keep costs down, and you've got math magic to make it as performant. One of the things I like what you're doing is you're partnering with I think most of, if not all the backup software vendors and opening up new market opportunities and expanding your TAM by partnering with those guys. Talk a little bit about, can you give us some specifics there? >> Absolutely. So, for example, we were presenting at the Veeam booth earlier this week about the intersection between InfiniBox and the Veeam backup software suite, and we have similar capabilities with some of the other backup platforms, as well. So two sides to that, one using the on-prem or cloud environments as a source, and there we have integrations with our snapshot technology specifically, and then two, using our InfiniGuard product on the on-prem side as a target, and there we have deep integration at an API level with the various backup platforms. So it's a cohesive universe where customers can take primary data, they can put it on Infinidat, they can use whatever enterprise backup platform. They can also put it as a target on Infinidat technology. >> And we're talking a lot about today. What about tomorrow? I mean, you know, what's the bigger picture down the road? What's your crystal ball telling you in terms of future complexities and challenges and what you see where this is headed? >> I think from a storage standpoint, at least, obviously lots of other complexities beyond that universe, but from a storage standpoint, people want to stop thinking about infrastructure. They want to think about cloud data services. They want to think about essentially going from storage arrays to storage clouds. We're doing that on on-prem, we're doing that in public cloud environments, and we're knitting it all together with our initiative called the Elastic Data Fabric. Our ultimate goal there and what we think customers really want is to be able to get the data services that they want at any given instant through the business model they care about independent of the underlying infrastructure, and that's what we're set up to deliver over the next couple of years at Infinidat. >> Well, Erik, thank you for the time. We appreciate that. By the way, Erik has become a very important Cuber, a VIC. His sixth appearance here on theCUBE. I wish we had a plaque or something to give you, but how about just an attaboy? >> Thanks very much. >> We appreciate that. >> Thanks, Erik. >> Back with more coverage here from AWS re:Invent 2019. You're watching us live. We're here on theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome inside Live here at the Sands as we continue our coverage of AWS re:Invent 2019 on theCUBE, day three. Always an exciting time I think to get a summary of what's happened here. Dave Vellante, John Walls, we're joined by a couple of gentlemen from Immuta, Steven Touw who's a co-founder and CTO. Steve, good to see you. >> Yeah thanks for having me. >> John Walls: And Rob Lancaster, who's the GM of Cloud at Immuta. Rob, thanks for joining us as well. >> Great to be here. >> First off, let's talk about Immuta a little bit. You're all about governance right? You're trying to make it simple, easy, taking out the complexity. But for those at home who might not be too familiar with your company, tell us a little bit about you. >> Yeah so the company started out, our roots are in the U.S. intelligence community. So we had been dealing with access and control issues for data for years and we said to ourselves, "Hey this product has to be useful for non-IC customers. "This problem has to exist." And with the advent of all these privacy regulations like CCPA, GDPR and of course HIPPA's been around for a long time, really our goal was to bring a product to the market that makes it easy to govern access to data in a way that you don't have to be technical to do it, you don't have to understand how to write SQL statements, you don't have to be a system administrator. We really bring together three personas, the users that want to get access to the data, legal compliance that needs to understand how the rules are being enforced or even enforce them themselves, and then of course the data owners and the DBAs who need to expose the data. So usually those three personas are at odds with one another, we bring them together in our platform and allow them to work together in a way that's compliant and also accelerates their data analytics. >> Could we talk a little bit about why this is such a problem? Because it is a big problem and especially today and in the cloud and we'll get into that, but you've got data lakes, data oceans now, you got data coming in, all types of data. Might be internal transaction data, it might be stuff in your data warehouse. And the organization say, "Well I want some other data. "I want to bring in maybe some social data." So certain data is, everybody can have access to. Certain data not everybody can have access to. And it's not necessarily just a security problem, edicts of my organization that need to be enforced. So first of all, is that sort of, the problem that you're solving? And maybe you can double-click on that a little bit. >> Yeah sure, so the market has evolved and is evolving. You allude to data lakes, I think you can point to the immersion of Hadoop, as a distributed infrastructure as kind of the original data lakes, or the most recent data lakes, where you can store all your data and run analytics on all your data, and now with the advent, with the emergence of Cloud you've effectively got very low, if not zero cost storage, and the ability to throw an unlimited amount of compute at the data. That, kind of in conjunction with heightened awareness for consumer data privacy and risk associated with data, has created a market for data governance beyond kind of the course-grained access controls that people have been using on their databases for decades now. >> Yeah I mean Hadoop really got it all started. You're right and despite all it's problems, it had some real epiphany-like technical innovations, but one of the things that it didn't worry about at the time was governance. So whose responsibility is this? Is it the CISO? That is essentially trying to build out a new cloud stack to provide security, privacy, governance and what does that stack look like? >> Rob: Go ahead. >> Yeah so it depends, it's actually pretty interesting that different organizations have tackled this different ways. So we have CISOs that maintain this. In other organizations we've got the legal compliance teams that want to do this but maybe don't have the technical chops. And the CISO doesn't necessarily know all the privacy rules that need to be enforced, so it's kind of moving into this world where security is about keeping the bad guys out and black or white access, like you either can see the data or you won't, but with privacy controls it gets into this gray area where there's a lot of technical complexity and there's a lot of legal complexity. So the organizations struggle with this 'cause you've got to play in that gray area where it's not just like I said, black and white. The analogy we use is, security is like a light switch, you're either in or you're out. With privacy controls you need to anonymize the data, you need to do privacy by design. It's like a dimmer switch where you want to play in that gray area and allow some utility out of the data but also protect privacy at differing levels of whatever you're doing analytically. So this can be challenging for an organization to wrestle with because it's not as, I would argue it's not as black and white as it is with security. >> Your question is in many cases it's the business that's running really fast and that is building these data lakes because they want to get value out of their data and the CISO or the compliance or risk officers are the ones that are telling them to slow down. So our product that Steve set up caters to both parties. It checks the boxes for risk, but it also enable the business to get utility out of their data lake. >> It's a very complicated situation because you've got this corpus of data that's organic and constantly changing and you have, you mentioned GDPR, you've got California now, every state's going to have it's own regulations so you've got to be able to sort of adjudicate that. And can you talk about, I mean obviously I've interviewed Matt Carroll, we covered you guys so I know a little bit about you, but can you talk about your tech in terms of it's ability? You've got a capability to do really granular level understanding and governance policies, can you describe that a little bit? >> Yeah sure, so when we talk about privacy controls, these are things like way beyond just table-level access. So instead of saying, "Hey you have access to this table or not," or even, "You have access to this column or not," you've got to go deeper than that, you've got to be able to make rows disappear based on what people are doing. So for example, we have financial institution customers that are using us for all their trading data and only some traders can see some trade desks and we manage all that dynamically. We're not making anonymized copies of data. Everything happens at query time, and depending on what compute you're using that all works differently, but then at the column level we're able to do these anonymization techniques like we could make numeric data less specific, we could use techniques like k-anonymization that allows analysts to analyze the data but ensures that small groups that exist in that data won't reveal someone's true identity. And we have techniques like differential privacy, which provides mathematical guarantees of privacy. So for example, one of our manufacturing customers set aside, these are the four analytical use cases that we're using our data for and under GDPR we want different levels of privacy associated to those use cases. So they could do that all with Immuta. So they could say, "When I'm doing this "I want these columns to be anonymized to this level "and these rows to disappear, but if I'm doing something, "maybe more critical, which our consumers have consented to "you know there's less privacy controls." And that all happens dynamically so the analysts could actually switch context of what they're doing and get a different view of the data and all of that is audited so we understand why someone's doing what they're doing and when they're running queries we can associate those queries to purpose. >> We've talked about customers of course and they're adapting right, to a new world? How are you adapting? I mean what are you learning about, in terms of policy regulation and governance, what have you, you said you came out of the intelligence community, high bar there right? >> Steven Touw: Yeah. >> So what have you done to evolve as a company and what are you, as the headlights basically for these folks, what are you seeing change that is going to require a lot of shift on the other side? >> Yeah so, I don't know if you have thoughts. >> I mean it's a great question but there's really two parts to it, there's what are we doing? But, what is the market doing as well, right? So if you think about when we got started, even a year ago people understood the technology, they thought it was cool but maybe a little nichey for government or financial services or maybe healthcare because there's well understood regulation, these vertical regulation. Even over the past year with kind of this increasing or heightened awareness for consumer data privacy, not just driven by CCPA and GDPR but kind of this, call it the Facebook Effect right? Cambridge Analytica has created this awareness within the general population for what are these organizations actually doing with my data? Before it was okay 'cause you give your data to Google and you get a better search result and you're okay with that but now they may be using your data for their own profit in different ways so this has created this rising tides effect for the overall market and we talk a lot about organizations using something like Immuta to protect their highly sensitive data. I like to think of it is their most valuable data, which may be highly sensitive but it also could be the crown jewels, trading data for a bank for example. So it's become about extracting value and operational benefit from data, whereas the risk offices are trying to lock it down in many cases. >> So, there's definitely a big problem and people are becoming more aware of it. I want to talk about where you guys fit into this whole cloud ecosystem. There's a sea change now, there's this sort of, this new cloud coming into play. It's not just about infrastructure anymore. I'll give you some examples, you got all these data lakes, maybe you got Redshift running, Snowflake's another one, you've now got this data exchange where you can bring data right in the Cloud bring in all different types of data, you're bringing in some AML and AI and it's all, really again, a complicated situation. So I see you guys as fitting in there and real need but can you describe where you fit in the ecosystem, what your relationship is with AWS, how do I engage with you? >> Yeah absolutely, so a core part of our value is that we are heterogeneous in terms of the environment that we support. We support a hybrid estate so the architecture of the product is fully microservices based so we can run on PRIM as well as on Cloud, on any Cloud, we support effectively any popular database system or analytical tool. So think of us as a data abstraction layer across a hybrid environment, so we're here because AWS is obviously the big boy in the market, they have market share, this is a strategic relationship for us. We're working very deeply with AWS field teams, particularly around some of their verticals, the verticals that align to our business and at the end of the day we're trying to define a category. It's a similar category that we've had for decades but with all the changes that are happening in data and regulation and infrastructure what we're trying to do is raise the level of awareness for the fact that Immuta has actually solved the problem that many of these risk officers are struggling with today. >> Yeah and from a, diving a little on the technical side of that answer is that we are, think of us as the way to enforce policy in the Cloud. We consider ourselves a Cloud-first software vendor. And you don't necessarily want one point solution in Redshift or another point solution on your on-premise Cloudera instance, whatever it may be where you're using your data and running analytics, you need to abstract the policies out into a consistent layer and then have them be enforced across whatever you're using. So you might be using Cloudera today and then you switch to Databricks tomorrow, that shouldn't be a hard change from you from a policy perspective. You just re-point Immuta at Databricks and all your policies are still working like they used to so it gives you this flexibility now to use all these different services that AWS provides 'cause as was stated in the keynote on Tuesday, there's no one database solves all. You're always going to be using a heterogenous set of compute to do your job in analytics so you need a consistent way to enforce policies across all of that. >> That's a great point. I mean I don't know if you saw the Vanguard guy today in the keynote, he basically said, "We rip down, or tore down our big data infrastructure "moved it to the Cloud, spun up EMR." I mean there's a perfect example of, you got to bring your governance with you. You can't have to rebuild that whole stack. Are you in the Marketplace yet? >> Steve and Rob: Yes. >> You are, great, awesome. >> Yeah we launched a managed version of Immuta over the summer on AWS Marketplace. We'll be launching a second one shortly and it's really, the offering that we have out there is really geared toward, for lack of a better term, democratizing data governance. It's actually free up to the fifth user so any organization can deploy Immuta in under 30 minutes through Marketplace and start protecting their data. >> That's great, we had Dave McCann on yesterday, he runs the Marketplace, he was telling us just now, private offers for every marketplace, so ICV, so that's from. Last question I have is, how do you see this all playing out? You got GDPR, remember you talked about California regulations, there's a technology component, any predictions you guys want to share? What's your telescope say? >> All data will be regulated data eventually. So if you're not thinking about that now you need to. So, at least that's our theory, obviously, so we think it's critical that you're doing that from day one instead of day 365 and in your migration strategy. And if you're not thinking about that it's going to potentially bite you in the ass. >> Yeah you're right, I mean Web 2.0 was the wild, wild west, there was no privacy, there was no regulation, GDPR started to get people focused on that and it's now a whole new world. >> Gentlemen thank you, appreciate the time and best of luck. I know you said you had the big launch this summer but good things are ahead no doubt. >> For sure, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Dave Vellante: Thanks guys. >> Back with more coverage here on theCUBE. You're watching AWS re:Invent 2019. We are live and we're in Las Vegas. (upbeat tones)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube hovering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Good morning. Welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS reinvent 19 from Las Vegas. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. Stu, this is day three of two sets of coverage for the cube and this expo hall has not gotten any less busy. Tons of people still here. >>Lisa, 65,000 I'm sure the throats are a little bit raw. The feet are tired, but there's so much good information and yeah, excited to dig in with some more of our guests. >>Yeah, so much good information that we have. Dell EMC back. Yes, we had them yesterday. There's more to talk about today. Please welcome a couple of guests. We've got Nick Brackney, senior consultant cloud at product marketing. Welcome to the queue of your first time. Happy to have you and Bob Ganley. I feel like it's been about 18 hours, maybe 20 senior consultant cloud product marketing. Welcome back. Thank you. So guys, lots of news like AWS news shot out of the cannon. One of the things though that you can't help but talk about at any event is multi-cloud organizations. The CIO is tell us on the cube all the time. We've inherited the multi-cloud. Sometimes Dave Valentic calls it a crime scene, right? For various reasons. It's not necessarily strategic, but it is becoming a reality. Talk to us about what Dell EMC is seeing. What your customer base with respect. Sorry, that's for Nick multi-cloud. Why, what are you seeing? How are you helping customers navigate it? >>Yeah, I think that, uh, there's a lot of diversity in needs for their customer base and it's really challenging for any one vendor to provide all of the solutions that they need. And so that's, that's where it's really about being able to offer them choices and giving them support to be in the right cloud for their workload. And so as we talk about this idea of cloud in the state, you said, you know, if, if they're in one or more clouds, it's really important that they have consistency across those clouds because otherwise the crime scene turns into something that's a, a management headache for everyone. >>Yeah. Nick, I wonder if we could tease that out a little bit because consistency's important. You know, when I think about, you know, multi-vendor in the data center for years, you know, VMware did a pretty good job of abstracting a certain layer. I'm a little worried that we're trying to recreate some of the silos of the past, you know, in giant cloud environment. So how do we make sure we learn from the past? And because skill sets are very different, the products underneath are very different. So while there might be certain point applications that I might need, the message here at Amazon is, you know, they've got the broadest and deepest environments they are. If you're doing multi-cloud, they're gum. Do one of them. So, you know, bring us inside your customers and how we make sure that we don't end up with that crime scene that Dave talked about and uh, all the pieces. >>I think first off, you can't look at technology in a vacuum. You really have to be thinking about people and processes. What can a business actually consume? You know, we run into a lot of talking about containers and containers is a great path forward to go cloud native. And that's really easy if you're starting from scratch. If you have a thousand apps though that currently sit in on premises, it's really challenging to make that move. And you know, which ones do I replatform, which ones do I lift and shift. And so I think that's one of the things we're doing with, you know, I work with VMR cloud foundation is we have one platform that can handle both virtualization and containers so you can have a orderly progression towards cloud native. >>What about the people part of it? I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday, Bob, and that's actually something that has come up in a lot of our conversations is it's not just about the technology for many reasons. How do you help the people? Because part of that's cultural and that's a really a challenging change to undergo. >>You know, I think you have to meet them where they are. Right? And that's, I read an article and someone said that the, uh, for, for analytics that most CEOs still are using Excel. There are all these other really advanced analytics things, but that's what they're most comfortable with. So when we look at the, the fact that all these organizations have really standardized on VMware, that's a really easy move for them to make because you can take your existing skill sets, you know, the, the investments you've made in the software defined data center and now you can extend them to the cloud and you can take the existing best practices that you have in your data center and you can move those to the cloud. So you're not surprised when you get there with all of the configurations and all the management, all the security challenges. >>And I want to add to that actually because I think one of the underlooked aspects of this whole thing is the idea that, like you said, if you have silos of operation, then you've got challenges. And so I like to say security for example, begins with who are you, what do you have access to? So if you have different ways of doing that on prem than in cloud, you're by definition at a riskier state. Same thing for compliance. Same thing for automation. If you've got multiple different tools to use, you know, it's just harder to do. So I think, you know, the consistency thing is very, very important. >>Excellent. Bob, you, you're the straight man for my next question here because, uh, if you listen to our hosts here of AWS, they don't use that multi-cloud word yet. The biggest conversation of discussion that I've had across with AWS with customers and uh, you know, with the ecosystem here has been outposts and absolutely Amazon might not even use the hybrid term, but absolutely is that extension between inconsistency between the public cloud and in my data center. So I'd like to hear, you know, Dell Dell's perspective outposts of course, hugely important. Sure. >>You know, I think it'd be really easy or almost trite to say that, Oh, you know, Amazon is justifying the fact that there's on prime infrastructure, right? I mean, Andy comes out and says 97% of it revenue still on prem. I think, you know, everybody understands that. I think it comes down to the following investment protection, trust and choice and investment protection is about organizations today have a huge investment in the way they're doing business now and clearly VM where's the lion's share of on-prem virtualization today? So it makes sense to extend that investment toward hybrid cloud and there's a very natural path to do that from the perspective of trust. When you look at on prem infrastructure, who better to work with in Dell EMC? I mean we're number one in HCI, number one in servers, number one in storage, we know how to do on prem and now with Dell technologies cloud we're extending that to a very consistent hybrid cloud model with AWS. >>Uh, and the third thing is, you know, choice, which is outposts is interesting because it's a completely managed service. Some organizations want that managed service. What we bring to the table with Dell technologies cloud is either Delta technologies, cloud platform, which is you manage it the way you normally manage it or the VMware cloud on Dell EMC, which is a completely managed service. So we have the data center as a service offering. We have the you manage it mr customer, which aligns with the way they're doing business. And I think last but not least is this whole idea of cloud economics and this concept of allowing people to pay for things by the drink, which is something that, you know, we're helping organizations do with their on premise. >>Bob actually just want to make sure I understand what you're talk about that managed service, the outpost solutions with VMware's expected in 2020. Does that then roll under the Dell technology cloud offering on E on VMware? I just want to make sure how I ended, how that is expected to. >>Yeah. So no it doesn't because that's essentially um, the Amazon hardware with the VMware stack on it on premises. And what we're offering for a data center as a service solution is a VMware cloud on Dell EMC, formerly known as project dimension, which is, you know, the trusted Dell EMC hardware with the verified VMware stack very tightly integrated. So it's cloud like operations on premise. >>Yeah. Yeah. So similar consumption models, similar design points, but different hardware stacks, >>consumption models, which is I think, yeah, I was going to say one of the other things you have to look at too when you're thinking about why now, why is this happening? And I think it's because people are starting to realize something that we've been saying for a long time, which is that cloud isn't a place, it's an operating model. And so by being able to bring that into the data center, what you're doing is you're extending it to more workloads. And I think that's great for customers. That's what they want and that's what we're trying to build ourselves. >>Bob, a question for you, some of the aligning with Stewart's question this week since the announcement of outpost, what Amazon is doing announced last year coming to fruition now, what are some of the things that you're hearing around the event from Dell EMC customers? Are they, are they understanding what that opportunity is for them? Yeah, >>we've been doing this for a while, right? So, um, VMware cloud on Dell EMC has been general availability since VM world of 2019 we announced it in 2018 we've got tons of customers that are very interested, thousands of customers running, um, within VMware cloud on AWS and now looking at this data center as a service solution, as an extension to that on prem. The thing that's cool about it is that they don't have to touch the hardware, they don't have to touch the software. It all gets managed remotely, but it's used just like on prem infrastructure. Right. So it's a great solution. >>Yup. Nica what one of the things that always gets talked about here is there's a big shift from apex to AFEX, uh, at this show. Uh, one of the things that surprises me as customers get all excited, Amazon comes out with new feature and they said, Hey, we're going to give you insight and we're going to save you 30% over what you were paying last year. Just because you probably weren't configuring it crate in your world. If you came to a customer and said, Oh, Hey, we oversold you stuff in this there, they'd probably be walking you out the door. But Dell has been doing some interesting things, going more cloud native with the economic model. Maybe speak a little bit to that. >>I have, I mean, I think it's something that's great. You know, cloud economics makes it easy to get going with a, with a small investment and scale out and, and, uh, move more quickly when be more agile. And so what we wanted to do was bring that same agility and ability to kind of innovate, uh, and, and not have the cost be a barrier by then extending that across our portfolio at Dell technologies on demand. So that's really about, you know, whether you want to do metered usage, whether you want a subscription or whether, you know, I want to, uh, you know, purchase hardware upfront, wait till I'm going to hit the switch and turn it on, and then I'll start getting built. But then I have the idea, the same thing as cloud, where it's, it's this idea of unlimited capacity at your fingertips, right? It's, it's not actually unlimited. We sometimes see that some, even some clouds run out of space, but it's, it's, you're able to move quicker. You don't have to wait those three, four, six weeks for the hardware to come in because it's already sitting there. >>Well, in legacy businesses don't have that much time because there are invariably in every industry, there is a born in the cloud company that is moving faster, has a different mindset and it's probably chomping at the bit right behind them. Take over that business. If that legacy enterprise isn't able to work fast enough. >>Absolutely. But what really makes us really interesting is that we're still offering you more choices, right? So the thing is, is there are certain workloads that break cloud economics, whether it's massive storage that, you know, I always tell people, you spin up and spin down VMs, you never delete data because that is super valuable to your business or you know, uh, we find certain workloads that are steady state, right? You know, cloud is really great when you're scaling up. Scaling down, when you're, you know, flipping off the switch of the lights. When you leave the room, if you leave it on all the time it can add up. And so it's really nice not just about bringing the cloud economics into the data center, but by bringing that consistent experience across both the data center and your cloud is now you can let the business requirements and the application requirements determine what the best place to put the workload is. Yeah. >>So, sorry. So Bob won, one of the big themes at this show is transformation. You've got it on your hat. When we talk about the cloud native space, uh, we were said there were the cloud native companies, they were born in the cloud. We said there are many companies that are becoming born again in the cloud. You know, bring us inside a little bit. What you're seeing, just the discussion point is you just can't incrementally get there. It requires, you know, executive management, uh, involvement and you know, it is a radical change in the way you build your application. And that has a ripple effect through everything that you do. >>Yeah, absolutely does. When you think about it, there is an evolution happening in application architectures and that evolution is from physical to virtual to now infrastructure is a service to add the additional efficiency and automation orchestration. Now container as a service, as we see organizations moving toward cloud native and containers to platform as a service and function as a service. And when you think about that, organizations need to bring their existing investments in virtualized applications forward as they're adding on containers as they're looking at this next generation cloud native. So we believe the right solution is to preserve that investment and bring that forward. So we've been adding cloud native, um, you know, standard upstream Kubernetes distribution to, uh, our Dell technologies cloud platform and that allows organizations to extend our investments. So that's one thing is that architectural evolution. The second thing is what I call the operational evolution that's happening as well. And the operational evolution is, you know, cloud has revolutionized the way people look at it because it's so easy to use. So what we're doing is bringing that operational evolution to the data center as well, where we're completely integrating the on prem infrastructure so that you can life cycle management in an automated fashion. And we're doing that both for infrastructure as a service and now for container as a service for Cooper daddy's. So we're excited about both the architectural and operational evolution. >>Well, and Nick, I'd be curious your viewpoint of this show, it's really a interesting mix of you've got enterprise, you've got developers, you've got everything in between and personas. So brick is inside something for the conversations you're having, how you worked with some of those different personas. >>I think it's really interesting because the shift towards containers means a shift dev ops. And when you're looking at that, uh, I think what's lost in the way is when I went and talked to my friends who spent a lot of time as it ops folks, they think very differently than developers. When something goes wrong, their immediate reaction is, please roll it back. Whereas a developer, thanks, hold on, let me add some more code to this and we'll fix it that way. And so I think the challenge right now is, is the burden is shifting and it's shifting towards developers. And one of the things I think with our solution and you know, hopefully, you know, project Pacific with VMware, what's coming down the path where they're, they're injecting, you know, containers into vSphere, all of that. Hopefully what's going to come out of that is, is you're going to make the job a little bit easier for developers because when you start doing dev ops or God forbid dev sec ops, and you're burdening these people with all these responsibilities, how are they still gonna innovate? That's really a big challenge. And I think when I'm at a show like this, I hear it from both sides. So it's really fascinating to hear the different perspectives and they're not necessarily aligned. >>Yeah, it's just that the, the quick note on that, in order's keynote, he puts out the giant thing on the board. You know, everything fails all the time. That's not what the enterprise was used to in the old world. And that's what that transformation is a little bit uncomfortable for many of them. >>And speaking of being uncomfortable, you know, Bobby talked about cloud, especially next gen cloud brings up opportunities, a lot of opportunity, but with it comes architectural change as you mentioned, uh, operational change but cultural change. Final questions and thoughts, Nick, from you, what are in the respect of the opportunity, but those changes, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you're seeing enterprises make and how can they avoid those? >>Yeah, so I mean, the first thing is I think that people have been sweeping mandates. When people say cloud first as a mandate, I think what they're, what they're missing in that is there's so much exuberance. They're not thinking through what is the workload need, what does the business need? And cloud should absolutely be a big part of anyone's strategy moving forward. But you need to be thoughtful about what you do. And, and uh, Pat Pat Gelsinger talks about there's three laws, the laws of physics, the laws of economics and then the laws of the land. You know, I always joke around, we still haven't managed to find a way to travel faster than the speed of light. So latency is always an issue. And then the second thing is, uh, around the shared responsibility model. You know, when you move to infrastructure as a service, people think, wow, I, I, they're taking care of everything. This is super easy. And what they haven't always figured out is that they're still on the hook for a lot of things from a security perspective, from a manageability perspective, from a data protection perspective. And if you fail to actually address those, then you might run into some problems down the line. >>Guys, good stuff. Always so much to talk about. Thank you both for joining Stu and me on the program today. Bob, I probably see again at the airport tonight. We appreciate you joining soon and stick around on the QTC is later today. Andy Jassy AWS CEO is going to be on, but for now, I'm Lisa Martin for. Thanks for watching the cube.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, its the Cube. Covering AWS reinvent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon web services and intel, along with its eco-system partners. >> So Good to have you with us on the Cube, we continue our coverage here. We are live on the AWS reinvent 2019. We've been here since Tuesday wrapping up a little bit later on this afternoon. It's a pleasure to welcome Jeff Frick in for the first time. Why I haven't seen you in a while. >> Great to see you John. >> Yeah Jeff Frick. >> Thanks for coming out. >> John Walls here and with Neha Rungta, who is the principal applied sciences for the automated reasoning group at AWS, Neha good to see you as well. Thanks for joining us here. >> Thank you for having me. >> All right, let's kind of put this in perspective for people at home, you've got the AI world and the email world all happening and automated reasoning, applying in all those contexts, so kind of give us an idea about what that mesh looks like, what is it all about, then we'll jump in what you're up to at AWS. >> Right, so automated reasoning is a subfield of AI. So the way you can think about is AI is a discipline of computer science that allows you to have rules, to teach a computer system or an algorithm, rules about how to think intelligently. So a lot of the tasks that traditionally humans did we transfer it to a computer doing it. And ML and automated reasoning are sub fields of AI, I would call them sister fields but on the opposite ends of the spectrum. So in machine learning you would have the computer system learn the rules by observing data, lots of data. And its very good for certain things like voice recognition. There is no definitive set of rules that says, "how can I recognize a voice?" While automated reasoning on the other hand doesn't look at data but it, for the things that we know that exists there are there definitive set of rules we encode them and the system and the algorithms can reason about it, and access control is a great example of that. There is no unknowns, we know what the shape of access control looks like what its definitions are, there is, and we encode those rules in a computer system and algorithm and allow, that allows us to ask, you know, many questions, and be able to have different applications and security, compliance, availability. >> All right, talk about asking questions in the context of security and access. Who's asking who what questions is the system, asking the person trying to get in? Is it the person trying to get in making sure they're getting in the right system? Who's actually asking those types of questions or what are those questions? >> So some questions are very general. For example, in most cases, you do not want, you want to make sure that your S3 bucket is not public. Only if you're hosting web assets or web pages are potentially the only cases where you would want a bucket with wall read access. So this is a question that's a global security best practice. So we would say, we would we would ask the question in AWS, is this the case that the bucket is public, but as a organization, you may have specific questions about who in my organization can access something. And that can vary based on organization based on the security based practices that you have based on the governance rules. So some questions I would say are best practices, while others can be specific to organizations and enterprises and companies. >> Now that's really important coz when we do hear about breaches, and we hear about breaches all the time, it seems like usually if Amazon is involved, it was some misconfiguration some switch got left in the wrong position. So this is the type of application that you guys can now search for in advance to make sure that whether it's industry best practices, or are you sure you want to leave this knob open, you guys can get ahead of the curve on that. >> Absolutely, and at AWS, we want the customers to have options and have flexibility to do those things. But we all and but at the same time, we want to provide them different means where they can check that, you know, check, double check, triple check that their configurations are as they intended. And we've partnered like, we've partnered with S3. So you see the public, not public badge industry console last year, we also partnered with them on the block public access, where it allows account administrators to turn on that nobody can ever access their bucket. And so we've been providing a lot of features to our customers to allow for them to detect and prevent misconfiguration of the resources. >> Yeah, how much more complicated is it now or complex because you have, you know so much more resource you've got a lot of data companies want it to be accessible to a lot of different people or people within the company want access to it. But just in terms of fundamentals, what does that do to your game, I mean, in terms of what you're trying to provide the controllers you're trying to provide, when there's a lot more of it, and a lot more people who want to get at it basically. >> Right, and this is where I, is one of the powerful things of automated reasoning, where, as I said, it's a sister field, but in a way, the opposite end of machine learning. It doesn't need data, or logs, or who has accessed things in the past, but it just looks at your configurations, your policies, and because of the rules we've encoded, it can very quickly tell you who outside your account has access. And we launched a feature this Monday called IAM access analyzer, that with one click, you can enable it in your account. It will scan all the resource policies in your account and tell you, "Hey, Bob here from marketing can read this bucket, is that intentional?" And that's not something we can say. Because that's a business use case. >> So you put that on the customer, right? To let them make that determination for themselves. >> Exactly, then we provide that visibility. >> And the goal is for the customer, to say, "Yeah, that's intended, he needs access." So I'm going to to archive this, I'm going to say this is intended. While if it's not, they can go to the respective service console and fix the access. And essentially, it empowers the customers to make decisions about what access is intentional versus not. >> Is it, does it just like fire off notifications, that there's something that seems kind of out of band within your system? That says, this doesn't seem right, or, you know, how is that actually executed? Coz I don't think most people understand how complex access control can be between different rules, different projects, different resources, it gets to be a pretty nasty, eerie mess. >> So I mean, we have many ways that customers can get notified, we've provided integrations in the S3 consoles. So a lot of, they don't need to go somewhere else. If people are in the S3 console, they can have this information, right there. There's a little tab in the S3 console that says access analyzer for S3. Security hub is where a lot of the security compliance people look for a holistic view of their security and compliance posture, look at findings from other security services as well as partner solutions. And we also provide integrations with cloud watch events. So people can just subscribe, "Hey, this bucket suddenly allowed John access, I don't know John." >> Be careful with that. >> Yeah. (laughing) >> Shut that thing down. >> How, what about just in terms of ease of use? I mean, that's always I guess, as more capabilities come to the market and you give me more choice as a customer. Sometimes, let me tell you, oh, you know, wait a minute, this seems like it's going to be over my head or a lot more complex or a lot more intricate than I thought. Can you keep it simple? I mean, I don't mean access for dummies, can you keep it relatively, that ease of use in a pretty comfortable level for me? >> Absolutely, and that's our goal. So traditionally, when you talk about automated reasoning, there's been this, oh, it's high touch, or you need to be an expert user to do it. And what's, with this offering here, all that, like it's all one click, and you don't have to be a security expert, or even know how access control works, or be like a mathematician or a logician. It's just simple declarative statements, it'll say, "John, from account one, two, three can read your resource." >> It's that simple. >> That's it, it's that simple. >> Yup. >> So it's essentially for customers of all verticals. You don't need to be a large customer with a huge team to be able to use it. Anybody, anybody can just turn it on and use it. And that's been one of the things that we pushed really hard on is to have that ease of use. >> Yup, yup. >> There's something, I'm curious philosophically, is this a different type of AI that could be applied when you have use cases that just don't have the big data set, because that's what we hear all the time about traditionally AIs, you know, to identify the, the chihuahua dog from the blueberry muffin, you need a lot of pictures. But this is something where you don't need a lot of data. So you see lots of different applications beyond, you know, this initial launch to apply this type of reasoning. >> Absolutely, so and there's a lot of systems, a lot of configurations, a lot of even code architecture, there's many, many systems I, that where we can apply these technologies for us to have. And that I think you hit a very key point, we don't need the data. We're in a way data agnostics, because the rules that we derive are the rules that we've made up. I mean, we know the rules because that's how AWS is constructed. So we leverage that to create these automated reasoning technologies. And we're starting with access control. But there's a lot of other places that we want to start using this and applying it. >> So how is this making our operations more secure then, I mean, ultimately, because if you're giving me a chance to better identify who's coming in, who's coming out, obviously, there's some protection there. >> Right. >> But, I mean, look at that for us, or at least try to paint that picture for us a little bit, in why does this give us better protections, better securities, in terms of protecting from invasion. >> So in the cloud, like cloud, security is our number one priority is, we call it job zero at AWS. And, as you talked about where, it's flexible, it's growing, your business is growing. You want to know what's happening. And you want to be, you want to have the, you want to be empowered to make the right choices and right decisions. And this provides you that visibility, you don't have to dig through, you know, the different configurations to see what's happening. Like for your compliance auditor comes on board say, are you sure that this meets these privileged practices and now you don't have to go digging, you can just say, "Oh, here's the report generated from this tool that has analyzed all the possible accesses." So it allows you to scale better as a business, you can focus more on your business value core propositions, rather than having to say, "Oh, how do I check the different configurations with my security requirements? And it's not passing judgment, it's not saying this is good or bad, because what may be good or bad for business can be different. >> Just depends on their perspective. >> Yeah. >> What they want. >> So I think that's the key part here. There are, I mean, there are some cases which we which we would call security best practices, but there's a whole, like tale of use cases that are very, very specific to your business. And I think by empowering you to make that choice and decision of what is intentional what is not, and do it in a way that's easy one click, you don't have to think hard about it, I think changes the game for security. >> Well, I would say my only piece of advice is don't give John access to anything. (laughing) >> And with that, with access analyzer you can. (laughing) >> You know, you can check (mumbles). >> Jeff, you now have control. >> Cut him down. >> Thanks for joining us appreciate the time and walking us through good luck with the product launch too. Sure things are rolling well for you Neha, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you. >> That with more we continue our coverage here we are live in Las Vegas at AWS reinvent 2019. (upbeat music)

>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube hovering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and they don't along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back to the cubes coverage of AWS 19 re-invent Los Vegas. Where else would it be? Why? Because there are about 65,000 people here with Stu Miniman and myself, Lisa Martin and we're pleased to welcome the guests from SAP, Germany, joining us as Glen Gonzalez, the chief technology officer in Germany. Glenn, welcome to the cube. Thank you. Nice place to be. Isn't it nice with XO? So this is day three of all the action. There is not a lull in the attendance of the expo halls. So much going on. So much news, but give us a little bit of an insight. SAP is a customer of AWS. AWS is a customer of SAP. Talk to us about all that you guys do together. >>Yeah, that's, that's interesting about our partnership cause it has so many dimensions and the firsthand, actually SAP is a big customer of AWS. We have huge workloads running on AWS or even our software as a service. Applications like conquer. Maybe the coolest travel a software you can have. For me as a traveler, I use it every day. And on the other hand it's like AWS is a big customer of SAP using conqueror themselves. And you know, I don't know, maybe a lot of people around us, they will know what I'm talking about. And then adding to this we also competitors, which is great because competition drives innovation. Everybody knows this. So, um, and that brings me actually to maybe the last part is like innovation is that maybe the center of our partnership is that we together can do so much more than each of us could do. >>And if we bring these two parts together, then then it's real value for the customers. And that's maybe the most exciting part about this. Clint, it's interesting. SAP Sapphire was actually the second show we ever did as the cube way back in 2010 before AWS reinvent existed. But even back then we started talking about transformation. You know, I think of SAP and SAP is the global ERP company. You started talking about all the different pieces. How should we be thinking about SAP in today's modern transformed cloud environment? Well that's, that's, that's a topic I have every week cause a lot of people perceive SAP as the ERP company and it's, it's so much more due to the changes that are happening around the world now. We stand for our business processes end to end, safe and secure. And business can run only if you have a software that can do this. But these processes are changing, you know, they're expanding and they are technically changing. For example, IOT brings actually that not a human being starts the process. It's a, it's a, it's a sensor but it's still an end to end process or technologies like blockchain and machine learning are changing the process itself. So some people think machine learning is only fancy of its autonomous driving, but put it into a process and it gets autonomous and that's a real value for customers. You can even calculate a business. So it's so much more than ERP today. >>We're at a Sapphire last year, so summer of 2018. One of the things that was interesting was a lot of messaging around ERP. You can talk to, of course here we are at AWS, lots of people know. Alexa, talk to us about some of the innovations and the emerging technologies that SAP is bringing into your flagship products and your other technologies that are really helping to transform way beyond ERP. >>Yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting cause we're doing a lot of this innovation together with AWS. Um, many of our biggest strategic customers are already running their workloads on AWS and, and so many more. I evaluating to do this. It's really exciting times. And as I mentioned earlier, new technologies kick in. So our, um, business technology platform based on SAP cloud platform is that by the customer's need, um, this connection from these new technologies into the businesses and we are developing so many softwares together now, um, like data intelligence or data warehouse cloud, um, and even the SAP custodian as we are now brought out last, uh, two months ago on our ticket. Yeah. So Glenn, uh, you know, SAP has always had a great few point into the productivity of the worker. Um, and there's so many technologies you brought up the autonomous bees. So it brought to mind one of the hardest areas in tech beyond just cloud is RPA, robotic process automation. >>Uh, you know, help us bring inside, you know, SAP is positioning there. Uh, and you know, even broader about just how workforce can be more efficient, not just get cool new tools, guide some, maybe one of the main topics of the ITD ciders around the world is how can I make things more simple? How can I reduce the complexity of my it? And it always starts at the user. Uh, it should at least not always, but it should. And if you can make the work of a user a lot, a lot more simple. And that's what these technologies bring in. Uh, automize or, or posh, partially automized processes. Um, the, the, the user of the software can do different things or you can only confront them with the difficult stuff on. The rest can be done kind by the system. And that's why these things are really important and we may main topic and you can put this new technology in with not such a big effort as others. Maybe >>the end user more productive is critical, right? Cause we're all end users at the end of the day and sometimes it's very challenging to get worked on if you have so many processes, there's so many different applications that you have to work with but to get the end user that productive to really streamline the enterprise software space. A lot of things we're >>hearing about, and Andy Jassy talked about this in his keynote Tuesdays organizations to truly transform a business all the way down to that end user level, you have to start at that senior executive level as the CTO of SAP in Germany, are you starting to see conversations shift up from that more end user space to that C-suite? Is is enterprise transformation really at that level and in your experience? Definitely. Definitely. It's a big topic but you have to see this. There are two to two versions of this. The one is to talk about it. And the other one is the execution on it. So we see a lot of companies are talking about unstop the execution. And it's a real transformational part and it's really hard for many companies because the change is drastic. And what we really see, it only works top down. So if the C level is not in it basically will not happen. And that's, that's something we've really learned within the last years. >>Yeah. Glenn, I always want to get to talk to a CTO. The changing role of technology in business today. Uh, you know, you used to be able to say there are certain industries, well, they might use of technology, but they're not technology companies. Now, you know, the, the, the meme is everyone is a software company and everyone's becoming technology. So you're gonna bring us inside your viewpoint as to, as a CTO about how, you know, how important, you know, this moment in time is, uh, in the technology industry. Huh. >>I think it's, it's, it's master key for, for many companies and even the role of the CTO changes from, for example, my role, I'm really customer centric. I spent many spend time with many customers a week. So I'm not in the machine room fixing things. I'm listening to customers because if you don't understand what they actually have for expectations, you will never fit. They're actually the expectation. So even even putting one on top, some of our customers need help to understand the expectations of their customers and that's the part of this digital transformation and these new businesses coming off. And so it's a lot more exciting than maybe a few years ago where we only talked about tech. I spent most of the time about how to use it and then afterwards how the tech has to be implemented to make this possible. What are your conversations with respect to people on that cultural change? >>As soon as point is, so many companies today have to be absolutely fueled by technology to be competitive because there are startups, right? You know, behind a lot of legacy businesses ready to cannibalize the business. But that cultural piece, it's really difficult. Talk to me about some of the conversations that you have with customers to help them maybe reset expectations but also get them understanding that that cultural transformation is critical to the digital transformation. That's maybe the unfair part. We come in and want to talk about technology and use it and then they, they start about change and not talking about change, their mindset change. It's the critical thing you can, you can have the best ideas. You can have the best technology behind this if you'll own organization but not go with this. You will not stop or you will not start. Sorry. So that's why I just earlier said, if it doesn't work top down, it will never work. >>If if the designer or let's say at the boss, if he's not in, if he doesn't understand the necessity to change this, it will not happen. And the changes is quite heavily. It's not agile. It's a lot more, it's about really thinking a different way or even understanding what the internet is doing to everybody. Some don't even understand that and it's, it's sometimes it's really surreal. You know, you're setting down, someone's telling you, Oh you know, my daughter uses a smartphone all day. I under don't understand her. And I said no. Then start understanding it cause that's how the world is turning out the moment. Right. And there are five different generations that are in workforce today. So businesses, SAP, your partners, your competitors, all have to cater to your point to a really broad level of technology understanding. Yeah, that's can be a big barrier. >>It is a barrier. But don't make the mistake to only get in the millennials and throw the old ones out because that's the biggest mistake you can do. Cause it's, it's about the mixture. It's about diversity in the team. I mean it's even if you can even ask scientists. Yeah. A lot of stuff you can read about this, but if you want to really make it happen, you have to live it. And this is where SAP, we had talked about it upfront that we have actually five generations within one company. And it's so important because the business process had the beginning. There's a reason why we did it this way. And if the new people don't understand this, they may make big mistakes. So that's the magic, bringing them together and making new kinds of teams. >>Yeah. Well Glen, I, I loved a couple minutes to go. You're talking about the requirements that top down leadership to be able to help and that really echoes what Andy Jassy talked about on the main stage. I'm wondering if you could give us a little bit of the global viewpoint, especially being from Europe here because you know very much we talk about that move from the bottoms up to the top down and it coming from both ways here. Is it very similar across the globe? Is there maturity or changes in some of the workforce that might be a little bit different in some geos versus others that you're working with? >>Without big differences, especially in Germany, which is a very mature market. Um, there's a lot of, actually there is a lot more talking about data security and privacy in Europe than we see in other regions of the world. For example, that doesn't matter. That doesn't say that. It doesn't matter that, but it's different talk. So, or even cloud. Uh, for some people it's cloud is like. I don't know. I can't really grab it. So an interesting is a different understanding of cloud of people. So it's, it's, it's regionally totally different how to go in and it's also a difference if you're talking to a big company, which is globally on the, on the road or others that are starting to get global for them, it's also change. Yeah. In other markets it's not a problem to do it that way, but in your own markets, a lot of, you know, say as like, Oh, let's wait. >>We have to discuss this first and that's maybe the wrong the wrong version. Yeah. As we look at how cloud in and of itself as an operating model, but also the technologies that define it, how they've evolved and changed. One of the things too that Andy Jassy talked about with our own John furrier is that, you know, a lot of the businesses that are going to be successful tomorrow are either going to be born in the cloud companies or they don't even exist yet. What are some of the things that you're seeing in the existing enterprise, not just in Germany, but globally? Are you seeing any industries in particular that you think are really right to become reborn in the cloud? For example, web far, especially in Germany where we have a lot of companies building machines, hardware, it's, it's more difficult to get this vision of being a digital company. >>You mentioned it earlier. Companies are becoming a software company, although they're building machines and the machine is only there to enable the service. This is a big change for them. It's of course a lot more complicated to to understand how these new technologies can help them on for them. They are actually in the beginning of understanding, but for others that come from a service side, for them, it's a lot easier for them to understand what these technologies can bring them and agility and flexibility and scalability. It opens totally new doors, but there's still a lot of education you have to do for them to understand that it's really a really the right door to go through and that's part of my job extending these things. Yeah. Glenn would love you. You've been, I'm sure talking to a lot of customers this week. Give us your final takeaways from AWS. >>Re invent 2019 wow. I'm a little bit overwhelmed by the input you can get here. I really tried to go to all sessions. I failed. Maybe next time there's only 2,500 of them figured out. Cloning highly shy manipulations is one of my CTO. Let's maybe I work on it for next time. We'll talk after this maybe next year so I need to be invited again and we can talk about that now. It's, it's a huge input we have here and it's a different stage. If I talk to customers it's a different talk cause we have more input from many sides and they are also open to talk about things that they may not be open to when they're at home cause she are things that there's so much positive input and so diverse input that it really helps to start different conversations. Well 2,500 sessions. That cloning thing will really help out. Not only with that, but also can you imagine how much better ERP would get if we had clones? So you'll have to come back cause we have to figure this out. I bet on that. All right, Glen, thank you for joining steward again for your time. All right, first two minute, man. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube and stick around because later today, Andy Jassy stops by. Thanks for watching.

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering a ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's two cubes. Live coverage I'm John for with the Cube were here reinvent date, too, as it winds down Walter Wall interviews two sets here. We want to think Intel, big sponsor of this, said we without Intel, we wouldn't have this great content. They support our mission at the Q. We really appreciate it. We're here and strengthen the signal the noise on our seventh reinvent of the eight years that they've been here. We've been documenting history, and we got a great panel lined up here. They got Sebastian to holler Who's the CEO? Sale Drone. Henry Stalls, Stool The VP of Science and Technology and Bowery Farming. Great use case around the food supply and Janet his era space weather scientists at NASA. The Kilo Physics division. We got a great lineup here. Great panel. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Okay. We'll start with you, Jen. And you're doing some super cool space exploration. You're looking at super storms in space. What's your story? >>Yeah, I work at NASA and NASA has in its mandate to understand how to protect life on Earth and in space from events like space, weather and other things. And I'm working with Amazon right now to understand how storms in space get amplified into super storms in space, which now people understand, can have major impacts on infrastructures head earth like power grits. >>So there's impact. >>There's a >>guy's measuring that, not like a supernova critical thing like >>that >>of, like, practical space. >>Actually, the idea that the perception of the world of the other risks of space weather changed dramatically in 1989 when Superstorm actually caused the collapse of a power grid in Canada and the currents flowing in the ground from the storm entered the power grid and it collapsed in 90 seconds. It couldn't even intervene. >>Wow, some serious issues. We want to get into the machine learning and how you guys are applying. But let's get through here, and we're doing some pretty cool stuff that's really important. Mission. Food supply and global food supply something that you're doing. What I think it might explain. >>Yeah, Bowery were growing food for a better future by revolutionizing agriculture. And to do that, we're building these ah network of large warehouse scale indoor farms where we go all sorts of produce indoors 365 days a year, using zero pesticides using hydroponic systems and led technology. So it's really exciting. And at the core of it is some technology we call the Bowery operating system, which is how we leverage software hardware in a I tow, operate and learn from our farm. >>I'm looking forward to digging into that Sebastian sale drone. You're doing some stuff you're sailing around the world. You got nice chance that you now tell your story. >>Sadly, no way. Use wind powered robots to study the 20% of the planet that's currently really data scarce. And that's the oceans on. So we measure things like biomass, which is how many fish down in the ocean. We measure the input of energy, which impacts weather and climate. We mapped the seabed on. We do all kinds of different tasks which are very, very expensive to do with few ships >>and to report now that climate change is on everyone's agenda, understanding potentially blind spots. Super important, right? >>That's what I'm trying to, You know, this whole question of if it's a question of what? When and what and how much. And so, you know, the ice is melting, the Gulf Stream is changing, and Nina is wrecking havoc. But we just do not understand this because we just don't have the data. In city, we use satellites where they have very low resolution. They cannot see through the water where you ships. No, has 16 ships he in the U. S. So we have to do better. We have to translate this into a big data problem. So that's what we're doing. We have 1000 sale drones on our plan with 100 water right now. And so we're trying to instrument old oceans all the time, >>you know, and data scales your friend because you don't want more data. Yes. Talk about what you're working on. What kind of a I in machine learning are you doing? You just gathering day. Then you're pumping it up to the cloud via satellites or what's going on there? >>One of the one of the use cases trying to understand you know who's out there. What are they doing? Another doing anything illegal. So to do this, you need to use cameras and look at the horizon and detect. You know whether you have vessels. And if those vessels are not transmitting the position, it means that they're trying to stay hidden on the ocean. And so we use machine learning and I that we train on on AWS to try to understand what where those things are. It's hard enough on land at sea. It's very hard because every pixel is moving. You have waves. The horizon is moving, the skies moving, the ship is moving. And so trying to solve this problem is a completely new thing that's called maritime domain awareness on, and it's something that has never been done before. >>And what's the current status of the project? >>So wave been live for about four years now we have 100 sail drones were building one a day towards the goal of having 1000 which we covered all the planet in a six by six degrees squares on. We are operationally active in the Arctic in the tropical Pacific. In the Atlantic. We just circumnavigated Antarctica, So it's the thing. That's really it's out there. But it's very far from from from land, >>So the spirit of cloud and agility static buoy goes away. You want to put the sale drones out there to gather and move around and capture. >>That's what the buoy is. You know, a massive steel thing, which has a full mile long cable, and it's it's headed to the silo in a fix stations one point and the ocean goes by. You having and robots means that you can go where you know something interesting is happening where you have a hurricane where you might have an atmospheric river where you might have a natural catastrophe or man made catastrophe. So this intelligence of the platform is really important in the navigation. That platform requires intelligence. And on the other side, getting 1000 times more data allows you to understand things better, just like Michael is doing. >>It isn't a non profit of four profit venture. >>It's a for profit company. So we said raw data a fraction of the cost of existing solution to try to create this kind of transformative impact on understanding what's happening >>that's super exciting for all the maritime folks out there because I love the ocean myself. Henry, you you're tackling real big mission. How using technology. I can almost imagine the instrumentation must be off the charts. What's your opportunity? Looked like? A tech perspective >>s o The level of control we have in our farms is really unparalleled. Weaken tune Just about every parameter that goes into growing our plans from temperature humidity Co Two light intensity day night cycles list keeps going on. And so to do Maur with fewer resource is to grow Maurin our farms. We're doing something called science a scale where we can pull different levers and make changes to recipes in real time. And we're using a I tow, understand the impact that those changes have and to guide us going from millions of different permutations. Trillions of permutations, really too. The perfect outdone >>converging. You jittery? Look at the product outcome. You circle that dated back is all on Amazon >>way. Do operate on Amazon. Yeah, and we're using deep learning technology to analyze pictures that come from cameras all over our farms. So we actually have eyes on every single crop that grows in our facilities and So we process those, learn from the data and and funnel that back into the >>like, Maybe put more light on this or do that kind of make a just a conditions. Is that that thing? That's >>exactly it. And we grow lots of different types of plants. We grow butter, head lettuce, romaine, kale, spinach, arugula, basil, cilantro. So there's a lot of different things we grow, and each of them require different, different little tweaks here and there. Toe produced over the best tasting and most nutritious product. >>That's cool, Janet Space. Lastly, on one inspection, we're gonna live on Mars someday. So you might be a weather forecaster for what route to take to Mars. But right now, the practical matter is Israel correlation between these storms. What kind of data problem are you looking at? What is the machine learning? What are some of the cool things you're working on? >>It? We have a big date, a problem because storms of that magnitude are very rare. So it's hard for us to find enough data to train a I we can't actually train a we have to use, you know, learning that doesn't require us to train it, but we've decided to take the approach that these super storms are like anomalies on the normal weather patterns. So we're trying to use the kind of a I that you used to detect anomalies like people who are trying to break into to do bank fraud or, you know, do a Web server tax. We use that same kind of software to tryto identify anomalies that are the space weather and look at the patterns between sort of a normal, more of a normal storm and a space with a huge space weather event to see how they patterns. Comparing how you're amplifying the regular storm into this big Superstorm activity. >>So it sounds like you have to be prepared for identifying the anomaly. See you looking at anomalies to figure out where the anomaly might be ready to be ready to get the anomaly. >>Yeah, you look at the background, and then what sticks out of the background that doesn't look like the background is is identified as the anomaly. And that's the storms that air happening, which are quite rare, >>all three of you guys to do some real cutting edge cool projects. I guess my question would be for the folks that are putting their toe in the water for machine learning. They tend to be new use cases like what you guys are doing, whether it's just a company tryingto read, factor themselves or we become reborn in the cloud ran legacy stuff. When you hear it, Amazon reinvent. This is the big question for these folks that are here. You guys are on the front end of a really cool projects. What's your advice that the people are trying to get in that mindset? >>So I think I think you know the way the way to think about this is if you're good at something and if you think you have the solution for something, how can you make that a 1,000,000 times more efficient? And so the problem is, there's just not enough capacity in the world, usually to treat data sets that a 1,000,000 times larger. And this is where machine learning should be thought about it as an extension of what humans really good at using a pair of eyes, ears or whatever or the sense. And so in our case. For example, counting fish acoustician, train acoustician, look at sonar data and understand schools of fish and can recognize them. And by using this knowledge base, we can train machines to do this on a much grander scale. And when you're doing a much grander scale, you derive. Ah, holding tight to >>your point is that humans are critical. I'm the process. So scaling the human capabilities and maybe filling in another scale issues or >>that's what a machine learning is. It's the greatest enabler of our time. It enables us to do things which are impossible to do before because we just didn't have enough people to do them at scale. >>AKI is being able to ask questions, right? And so if you have the questions to ask, you can apply this technology in a way that's never really been before possible. >>You're Jake. >>Yeah, I am actually someone who didn't know anything about a Ira ml when I started. I'm on. I'm a research scientist. That space weather. So coming into this, I'm working with E m L Solutions Lab here and putting a I experts with with experts and space brother we're getting we're doing things that are gonna give us new advances. I mean, We're already seeing things we didn't know before. So I think that if you partner with people who really have strong a I knowledge, you can use your knowledge of science to really get to the really important issues. >>Okay, I have to ask the final lightning round question. What is the coolest thing that you've done with your project that you've either observed implemented? That is super cool. Super cool. What's the coolest thing >>well in in terms of us were using anomaly detection to identify storms and in the first round through it actually identified every single Superstorm, which was not the major super storms, but it did. But it also started identifying other anomalous events, and when you went looked at him, they were anomalous events. So we're seeing things. It's picking out the weird things that are happening in space weather. It's kind of exciting and interesting. >>I worked for a day with you. I would love to just leave these anomalies every what's the coolest thing that you've seen or done with your project? >>I think the fact that we've built our own custom hardware own camera systems, uh, and that we feed those through algorithms that tell us something about what's happening minute by minute with plans as they grow to see pictures of plants minute by minute, they dance and it's truly it's It's remarkable. >>Wow! Fascinating Machin >>We've counted every single fish on the West Coast, the United States, every single air from Canada to Mexico. I thought I >>was pretty >>good. I didn't think it was possible. >>Very cool. But what's the number? >>Yeah, If I could tell you, I would. But I'm not allowed to tell you the jam. >>And you know where the salmon are, where they're running all that good stuff. Awesome. Well, congratulations, You guys doing some amazing work is pioneering a great example of just what's coming. And I love this angle of making larger human impact using technology. Where you guys a shaping technology for good things. Really, really exciting. Thanks for coming on, John Kerry. We're here live in Vegas for re invent 2019. Stay with more coverage. Day three coming tomorrow back with more After this break, when a fake intel for making it all happened presented by Intel Without their sponsorship, we wouldn't be able to bring this great content. Thanks for watching